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I had a video conference court hearing last week, and instead of throwing a blazer over my blouse and jeans like I usually do, I got fully dressed in a sheath dress and a blazer. Honestly, I felt like a new woman (even though I was still in my slippers).
To shake off the winter blues, I think I might try getting myself a little more dressed up on days when I’m going to see other people, even if it’s only via Zoom.
This sheath dress from Of Mercer is a gorgeous color and has a great asymmetrical neckline — perfect for adding some pizzazz online or in real life.
The dress is $195 and comes in sizes 0–14. It also comes in black and navy.
Vince Camuto has a more affordable option that's available in three colors; it's on sale for $39.97 at Nordstrom Rack.
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Cat
For the person looking at the JCrew blouse yesterday – it is 50% off today. Perfect example of why to wait :)
Lilau
Just came here to say the same thing! Go for it ruffle love!
Anonymous
Thank you! That was me. Love this group!
anon
What should we watch on Apple TV? We loved (loved loved) Ted Lasso, and really enjoyed Boys State (we are from Texas). We tried The Morning Show last night and quit halfway through the first episode – boy did we find it lame. What are we missing?
Anonymous
Mythic Quest!
KS IT Chick
If Celtic mythology interests you, try Wolfwalkers. It’s animated, with gorgeous style and color.
Jeffiner
Yes, my family really enjoyed Wolfwalkers.
Anonymous
Defending Jacob was ok. I had read the book so I was curious to see how it translated to the screen.
Anon
I liked Defending Jacob – I thought it did the book justice.
Anon
There’s not much on there. We have it free and Apple keeps extending it, but the only thing I’ve really loved was Ted Lasso. I also liked some of the movies: Wolfwalkers, Boys State, and On the Rocks were good, and the Tom Hanks WWII movie was okay (seemed a little low budget). I’ve been sort of wanting to watch Dickinson, but my husband isn’t into that so we’ve been watching other stuff instead.
Anonie
The show “Trying” about a sweet young British couple is SO cute. Highly recommend!
Also think “Defending Jacob” was quite underrated and that “The Servant” is pretty good.
Anon
Servant is really good, it’s a slow pace but super creepy. I also really liked Defending Jacob. But I don’t think I’ll renew my Apple TV subscription once my free trial runs out (I got a free year when I bought a new phone and they just extended it).
Anon
‘Lame’ is an ableist slur and I urge you to stop using it.
https://carlyfindlay.com.au/2020/06/23/stop-using-disability-slurs/
anon for this
Just here to vent. My Mom is a teacher and she is turning down her opportunity to get the coronavirus vaccine because she would rather risk the virus than have to deal with what her nurse friends told her about the after-effects of the second shot. Super upset right now because I have COPD and haven’t seen my Mom in person since March 2020. She just isn’t taking this seriously at all, and I’m super upset about it.
Anon
JFC.
My brother is a nurse in a Covid ward. He had Covid (a “mild” case, did not require hospitalization but was pretty sick for 2 weeks). He’s since had the vaccine (with it’s side effects). He would recommend the vaccine ANY DAY.
In his words – Wear a mask. Wash your hands. Stay the f*** home. Get the vaccine.
anon
I am really sorry. I would be furious, too. :(
LaurenB
Those I’ve known to have had reactions to the vax – it’s self-limiting. A night of chills and one friend had a swollen lymph gland which went away in a day or two. All are very happy they got the vax and the side effects are minimal in comparison to Covid. I’m so sorry – I’d be frustrated too. Can you explain to her it’s like the (temporary) pain of a mammogram or the (temporary) unpleasantness of a colonoscopy, both of which are far preferable to breast cancer or colon cancer?
Anonanonanon
I would be furious too. I’m so sorry. My sister-in-law is a NICU nurse and refused the vaccine. So aggravating.
Anon
uch why. i know it can’t be required yet bc it was authorized under emergency approval, but it probably will be one day. she is treating such vulnerable people. i had a nicu baby and if i knew that i’d request a different nurse
anon
+1 from a fellow NICU mom
Anon
omg same
Anonanonanon
She and others (!) are allegedly worried about side effects and thought “more vulnerable” people should get it first. She regularly eats out at restaurants and just doesn’t give AF. It’s infuriating. We have definitely lost a lot of love for many family members for how they’ve acted. I wouldn’t want her as my nurse either.
BeenThatGuy
That’s bananas! My sister is a Charge Nurse in a Level 3 NICU and she can all of her co-workers are mid-vaccination. There are hundreds of nurses and other staff in her unit. Your SIL sounds awful and I do not believe she is “the norm”.
Anonymous
My BFF is a pediatrician. She got the vax while 30 weeks pregnant. And then posed for a photo and did a ton of interviews to get the word out.
Another friend of mine is an ER doc. She was 40 weeks pregnant when she was eligible for the shot. She gave birth and the second the baby was out she got her vax. There is a photo of her in the recovery room with her arm out.
My sister is a nutritionist at a rehab center and has been vaccinated since Christmas. Only 40% of the staff at the rehab center opted to get the vaccine. She told them if they didn’t want it she’d drive it two states over to my family! Bonkers nuts. She did say that over 80% of the residents were vaccinated.
Vicky Austin
Even if the second dose were excruciatingly painful and miserable (which for me it was not, just a mild case of brain fog and body aches), it lasted max 24 hours for everyone I know. I would take 24 hours of pain over a lifetime of other ill effects any day. I’m sorry to hear about your mom.
Anon
Right? It’s like labor or post-surgical pain — it is intense, but I think it is mentally bearable because it generally has an end date or will get better as your body heals. Acute pain is bearable if it is not long-term. IDK if the second COVID shot even qualifies as acute pain like that. And the bad part soon fades. I can tough it out — why will people not even try? Especially women who have dealt with periods and possibly birth pains. But even if it were THAT BAD, I have chronic grief from people we’ve lost over the year that I haven’t been able to mourn properly and the dear living people who are too fragile to survive it so go unvisited. The human cost has already been too high (to me) and I don’t deal with actually sick and dying people. UGH!
anon
+1. I have lost a close family member to Covid. We won’t be having a funeral until summer at the earliest. It’s grief on top of grief. But yeah, keep refusing the vaccine all while living your best life. (insert eye roll)
Anonymous
For anyone reading this that’s on the fence about the vax, I know easily 40 people that have gotten it. NONE of them had 2nd shot reactions like that. My sister, who got covid from her work in a hospital this summer, had a reaction to the first shot, but it was more like achy/rundown and a rash. She was fine in a day or two and had no reaction from the second shot. I get that kind of reaction from the flu shot.
Cat
More positive anecdata here – I know 3 people who have gotten the second shot. One had slight chills overnight. The other two have just had a sore arm for a few days.
anon for this
I wish people would STOP posting about their reactions to the shot. It 100% made my Mom want to turn the shot down.
Anon
@ 10:09, I agree though showing how short lived it was could help. My COVID nurse friend posted that her nurse husband had a 104 degree fever the day after the second shot. She posted a pic of the thermometer. But the next morning she posted it was completely gone and he had a 98.4 temperature. I just don’t know if everyone saw the follow up even though she posted it on the same post. She says she knew it would be very short lived and wanted to show that the “horror stories” really only last a day.
My husband had body aches and chills and just felt flu-ish for a day. He said if that was at all like what it would feel like to have COVID, he would way rather have that for a day than a week!
I think the only good that has come of sharing that you may be sick for a day is to help employers plan for staff coverage. You can’t vaccinate everyone working in the same hospital on the same day and then have 1/3rd of them need a sick day the next day. That’s a recipe for staffing disaster.
At the same time, employers have to realize that not everyone can get the jab on a Friday and you have to be lenient if someone needs the next day off.
Anonymous
@10:09, I’m really sorry people sharing those stories has deterred your mom from getting the vaccine. That is extremely frustrating. I work in healthcare and we’ve been encouraged to share our experiences to normalize getting the vaccine, including normalizing some possible signs of an immune response after vaccination. It’s really frustrating to hear those stories are a deterrent for some.
Duckles
@anon the side effects shouldn’t be hidden/downplayed. That’s what makes people distrust doctors/the government.
In my circle (I haven’t gotten it yet) 4/5 people (all in healthcare) who have gotten it had severe reactions to the second shot and said you need to plan to take 1-2 days off work after, so that’s absolutely information that should be communicated.
Anon
@9:20 – it’s like getting a colonoscopy to me. Yes, you will make yourself sick for a day. Yes, it is worth it.
Anon
“Especially women who have dealt with periods and possibly birth pains.”
Please do not use this line of reasoning. It’s incredibly sexist and demeaning. We should not be normalising women’s pain.
Lilau
Thank you for this. The post minimizing labor pain really got to me because I’m trying to wrap my head around going through it again in two months. (And yes I got the epidural but really I never forgot how bad it was.)
Anon
I think the point is that people routinely deal with worse (which is surprising to . . . no one).
Anon
Anon at 10:44 am, the issue is not that people routinely deal with worse; it’s that women routinely deal with worse. That’s sexist and needs to stop.
anon
Wait, what? Do women NOT deal with worse? I don’t at all understand how you could think acknowledging a woman’s pain is sexist. Also, don’t we complain that doctors don’t take women’s pain seriously enough? But now we shouldn’t discuss it because somehow it normalizes something? The pain from childbirth and periods happens whether we normalize it or not.
Anon
The statement was that women should sign up for more pain because we already experience a lot of pain.
Specific to women, not people in general.
That’s sexist and unacceptable.
anon
Honestly, it sounds like you want to be offended. We are on a women’s blog talking about the vaccine so people can compare it to other women’s issues.
LaurenB
“The statement was that women should sign up for more pain because we already experience a lot of pain. Specific to women, not people in general. That’s sexist and unacceptable.”
What a completely odd take on things. No one is saying “women should sign up for more pain because we already experience a lot.” People are comparing the side effects from the Covid vaccine to other pain / discomfort we experience — such as the temporary discomfort of a mammogram or pap smear, or the temporary unpleasantness of a rectal exam or colonoscopy. It is a “buck up, it’s part of life” argument, not a “women are martyrs so you need to martyr yourself even more.”
annoyed
It’s not as bad as labor or post surgical pain – its just a painful injection, like others (hepatitis, gardasil, etc), maybe like someone punched you, and it goes away in a day or so. It’s not scary, it’s just not a big deal.
Annoyed 2
+ 1
The comparison to labor and post-surgical pain struck me as odd.
franklina
Just to say, my first shot’s reaction was like a week; and the second like 3-4 days. 10/10 would vax again (including the mild allergic reaction I got!). (My immune system is a lil dramatic)
Also, the brain fog was real– I think the weird dreams and that were worse than the aches, and I felt like I had the flu plus a pulled rotator cuff. WORTH. IT.
anon
When I was in college, I had to get a yellow fever vaccine to travel. My arm hurt like hell, and I almost fainted walking from the doctor’s office back to my dorm. I had “brain fog” and felt terrible for the rest of the day. You know what? 100% worth it not to have yellow fever.
I’ll get the Covid vaccine as soon as it’s offered to me.
Anon
That’s infuriating. I’m sorry OP
Shananana
Ugh, sympathies. Found out my best friend in NYC is awaiting probable positive covid results after trying for the last 2 weeks to get an appt for a vaccine (she is qualified as an essential worker) and being unable to find a single spot in the disorganized system. While realistically one vaccine wouldn’t have stopped this, its still hard to not have that add to the angry.
Bonnie Kate
ugh. I’m 90% sure my inlaws aren’t going to get the vaccine and I try not to think about it too much because otherwise it’s just super upsetting. The very annoying thing is that the people who refuse the vaccine are often going to be the people who aren’t taking it seriously at all, and therefore are spreading it all around. Now I’m not going to think about THAT too much otherwise it’s gonna ruin my day….
Anon
I’m sorry. I think we are all entering a really tough phase. On the one hand there is the promise of the vaccine, but on the other, it has introduced so many challenges and resentments and fears. Then we have the countdown against the new variants. We will all get through this but right now is hard.
anonymous
Commiseration. My mom is over 60 and immunocompromised. She thinks Covid is all completely overblown and The Media(tm) and Big Government(tm) and The Left(tm) are using this as an excuse to create fear and control people because she read it on Drudge Report, so on and so forth. Her chronic pain and disabilities and depression have basically culminated in her simply not caring if she gets Covid and dies. So she’s totally okay if Covid is how “God takes her,” but can’t seem to understand why neither of her children are okay with being the source of the infection that takes her out. So we haven’t seen her in a year, while she continues to apply guilt about how her grandchildren don’t remember her, no one loves her, etc. etc.
Anon
There’s some interesting data about how people perceive the threat of death from COVID. For those under 50, she’s absolutely correct; most people overestimate their chances of dying by about a factor of 500. Problematically, that does not apply to those who are 60 and up; they tend to have a fairly good handle on how likely they are to die from the virus if exposed.
Duckles
I have had a horrible time finding good data on covid. It could be because it just doesn’t exist, but I have just tried to find data on “what percent of adults 18-64 diagnosed with covid are hospitalized with covid” and even better, “what percent of those hospitalized with covid have pre-existing conditions compared to the general population”. I have degrees that qualify me to do research/analyze data and I’ve come up with nothing so I can understand the general population’s frustration. It lends to “it’s all fearmongering” when the only statistics are on death (which is overwhelmingly the extremely elderly) and new cases, and “long-haul” articles are anecdotal rather than data-driven. It could be there is just not the time for better data collection.
KS IT Chick
The biggest problem at the moment with the percentage hospitalized in a given age group is getting an accurate denominator. So many people never experience enough symptoms to trigger the thought of “I need to get tested” that we don’t have an accurate count of the numbers who are actually infected. We can get an accurate count of the age group actually hospitalized, but that alone isn’t enough to give a picture of total infections to get our hospitalization (or worse, death) percentage.
I have said all along that I don’t fear dying from COVID. It seems unlikely that I would, based upon my age and overall health What I fear more is the unknown long-term impacts. Men seeing months-long erectile dysfunction. COVID-toes, with major clotting in the small vessels of the hands and feet, resulting in amputations. Needing supplemental oxygen for months or years.
I’ve received the first dose of the Moderna vaccine and will get my second dose on Saturday. I will still follow the pillars of infection control: avoiding groups, washing my hands, wearing a mask. We won’t reach herd immunity immediately.
Anonymous
I am curious about her thoughts on returning to in-person school. Is she teaching in person now? If not, is she OK teaching in person without being vaccinated? Because if the latter is the case, I say, let her do her. Her being vaccinated won’t keep you from getting sick, so you’ll need to wait to see your mom until YOU are vaccinated whether or not she gets it.
anon for this
She is teaching in person right now. She wears a mask all day unless she is in her classroom alone and thinks that’s enough. Her school wanted to make the vaccine mandatory so she “opted out” of the vaccine.
Anon
I hope this helps – a local nursing home had only 50% of the staff agree to the vaccine. Once the 50% that did not get it saw that the 50% that did were fine after a day or so, they are now asking (and having) a second vaccination clinic for the rest that are now comfortable getting it.
Yes, it’s a bit selfish to let your colleagues be the Guinea pigs but at least they have come around. Now it’s only 5% or so refusing and those could be for legitimate medical or religious reasons at that number.
In the past, my elderly father couldn’t get the flu shot even though he has COPD. He had an anaphylactic reaction to a vaccine many years ago so his doctors considered it too risky. Now with COVID, they finally referred him to an allergist, did proper allergy testing (he tested negative to the allergy), gave him the flu shot in the allergist’s office and had him monitored, and now he’s cleared to get the COVID vaccine.
I’m so relived that going forward he can get the flu shot! My very healthy and fit husband had H1N1 in 2009 and was a level of ill that I don’t think my father would have survived.
relatively zen
Venting with you because my mom has also done nothing but complain about potential vaccine side effects. Mom, you’re in your 60s! It doesn’t matter if you have to stay home for two days and it’s better than getting covid! Anyway, many sympathies and right there with you.
Anon
This is so hurtful, I’m sorry.
I might understand if you were in a country with barely any cases, like NZ or Australia, and didn’t have a loved one with COPD, but this is awful.
V-neck Sweatshirt
Yesterday’s sweatshirt inquiry motivated me to ask for help with my own sweatshirt search. I am looking for v-neck sweatshirts. Sweatshirts are never flattering but crewnecks and boatnecks are just awful on me. I have two 1/4-zip pullovers, but I would appreciate suggestions for the elusive v-neck sweatshirt. FWIW, I cannot wear men’s as I am too short.
Anokha
It’s expensive, but the Rag and Bone Flora sweatshirt.
ollie
I have a basic one from Old Navy
Anonymous
Wish I’d seen this one before it sold out in larger sizes -https://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=659926022&vid=1#pdp-page-content
Anonymous
also this one came up in a search: https://www.walmart.com/pac?id=8515784b-57b6-458d-b0c5-bfdce32d3228&quantity=1&cv=468
Anon
How about a zip hoodie worn half zipped?
Shampoo!
Unimportant question of the day!: I’ve highlighted my hair for over a decade – and then stopped because of the pandemic. (It’s rather spectacularly grown out at this point.) The problem is…it looks dirty so much faster. It used to be able to go 1.75 days before really wishing for a wash, but now on after just a day I don’t love how it looks. Is the issue that treated hair is drier? A visual illusion? Do I need a new shampoo?
Anonymous
Not sure about how dieing impacted it, but in my experience, if you give it a few weeks with less washes (maybe 2-3 times a week), your scalp starts producing less oil because it’s not being stripped so often. Maybe give that a try? It’s a bit of a rough adjustment since you have to deal with greasy hair for a few weeks, but now’s the time to do it when we’re staying at home and Zoom just doesnt pick up how bad greasy hair looks in person.
OP
Sadly, I tried this early in the pandemic and it just kept pumping out oil. Glad it worked for you!
anon
It looks dirtier because a) treated hair is likely a bit drier; and b) color and highlights plump up the cuticle. Without those two things, your hair has less texture and is more “flattened” on top and will show oil sooner. Especially if it’s straight to begin with. It’s possible that you need a new shampoo, especially if your current one is formulated for color-treated hair, but more than likely you just need to wash it more frequently.
Anonymous
This. I’ve got fine textured straight hair and miss the volume that highlights gave me. I have to wash it daily (Kristen Ess TheOne Signature shampoo and conditioner). But, it’s super healthy and shiny now which is a nice tradeoff.
OP
Thank you! I was also noticing it seemed so much flatter too!
Anonymous
If you haven’t already, try dry shampoo. It really works. I’m a fan of Batiste.
Bonnie Kate
+1 for dry shampoo and Batiste. I tried a bunch of fancy ones; my hair stylist kept trying to convert me to salon dry shampoos and none of them worked nearly as well as Batiste for me.
Anonymous
I mean, the Khlorane one works as well for me, but why pay 2-3x as much?
Anonymous
I have had the same experience. Volume helps: I am happy with a new volumizing conditioner and either a salt spray, a dry shampoo spray or a texturizing spray spritzed lightly at the roots in the impacted area.
Anonymous
Thanks! I’ll give that routine a try!
Anonymous
I think they are related for sure. I recently started coloring my hair and can now skip a day or two of washing vs before with my undyed hair I had to wash daily.
Anon
Yep, hair dye dries out your hair and as a result it absorbs oil better. It’s one of the reasons I dye mine. The other is because dying hair makes it appear thicker – the cuticle expands and then you also have more texture.
Anonymous
This board led me to the books Burnout and Come As You Are, both fabulous and thought provoking. This introduced me to the concept of attachment theory. I think I securely attach in non-romantic relationships, but am avoidant in romantic relationships. Any good, woman-centric/authored books on this concept? I’ve never been convinced being partnered is better than single for me, and I’m not really looking to get convinced, but almost every phrase for avoidant describes me perfectly.
Anon
There is a book called Attached that targets this theory though the author is a man.
Anon
+2. I also read and enjoyed Wired for Love. I am also an avoidant partner. I know that it stems from having parents who were, and still are, emotionally distant and dismissive. Therapy has helped me open up to my partner.
Anon
Shoutout to whoever recommended Burnout a couple of months ago. Before I was every 1/3 of the way through, I mailed a copy to my BFF who is a social worker and struggles with work consuming her life. I am attorney and it really resonated with me and put a lot of things in perspective. The idea that women have to be their Best Selves in every aspect of their life (partner, parent, daughter, sister, employee, physical health, mental health) is absolutely exhausting and an impossible standard to meet.
Sloan Sabbith
I’m reading Burnout right now. Really interesting so far. No book recommendations for you but thanks to whoever recommended Burnout!
cara
Hmm this exactly describes me, maybe I should read some of these books. People really like dating and getting married, so there must be something to it, but I also have “never been convinced being partnered is better than single for me”
Boomerang
Anyone care to share experience with returning to a prior employer after being headhunted away? I wasn’t looking to leave at the time, but had an old former colleague who pushed hard for a long time to get me to jump jobs, made a very lucrative offer, and I finally gave in. A couple of years in, I still don’t feel at home in this role. Old employer has been in touch regularly since then and we remain on friendly terms. They now have an opening with my name all over it. Anyone have tales to share about this? Words of caution or stories about how it worked out?
anon
I haven’t done it personally, but I think this is very, very common. I know a few people in our organization who have left and later returned once they figured out other pastures weren’t quite so green. From the perspective of a colleague, this doesn’t have to be a big deal. Act humbly and don’t assume you know everything about the organization because a lot of things can shift around in two years’ time.
Anon
It’s insanely common at my company, nobody ever moves up without leaving first. If you like what they’re offering, I’d go for it. Just make sure you approach the situation from the power side: you have a job now, and the old company knows your worth. Let them woo you.
anne-on
This. I think it’s really stupid to lose talent because you refuse to promote/compensate your home grown people but it is what it is. I keep in very close touch with my old team at a competitor company and my counterparts at other companies by virtue of industry events/networking. I fully expect to either go back to my old company or be head hunted by someone in my role at a competitor company in the future, it just seems to be the only way to get serious raises/role changes.
Anonymous
I work for a unicorn firms that really loves its employees, gives great perks, good benefits and wages, etc. Every once in a while, someone will leave to go to one of our clients or the government, and they frequently come back and it’s viewed more as a family reunion than anything else!
Anon
I did. I worked for a large healthcare-related company. I was recruited by people I used to work with to build a clinical team. This was a start-up that essentially never started. It was potentially a great opportunity that I had to pursue. I left on good terms. Two years later I was laid-off along with half of the company. I looked at all my options and ended up back at my old company and work group. Since then returning I have been promoted,
AFT
Are you moving into a new/different role? Have the reasons you left changed/will they in your new role? Do you have contacts that will candidly tell you how things have changed/stayed the same since you left?
Honestly, not that unusual, but keep in mind you are trading whatever frustrations you have now for the frustrations at the old job. That being said, sounds like it could be a good move for you?
Anonymous
Based on seeing this a number of times at my org, the ability to successfully return is very dependent on the role and personality of their leadership chain. For people who were in sales role and went to a competitor, coming back would either be difficult or not possible. For people whose bosses were angry they left – same thing (like if you left us in the lurch, or you were being groomed for some role and didn’t take it.) (not my style as a manager, but this is how it plays out. You’d need to have access to the gossip stream to know whether you were OK to come back or not.
anon
I am feeling down and discouraged today. The pandemic is nowhere near over. The vaccine was/is great news, but I hate hearing how many people are refusing it. I’m going to be in the back of the vaccine line as it is due to my age and overall good health — which is absolutely as it should be, but I am so ready to get back to real life. I have played it cautious and am just weary and wondering where the finish line is at. And now with the new variants popping up in the U.S., I am feeling like such a Debbie Downer.
Panda Bear
I feel this way too. I don’t have any brilliant strategies to share, either… but you aren’t alone! It’s still going to be a long slog before things are ‘normal’; it stinks, and I think its normal to have moments of discouragement.
MagicUnicorn
As much as it infuriates me that people are refusing the vaccine, I tell myself that means I am one step closer to my turn in line.
Anonymous
This may sound counterintuitive but it helps me to be a bit more of a “downer.” I try to think of all those prior whose day to day was dramatically harder. Pioneers with no heat and little food with their children making their way to unknowns out West. My grandmother who barely made it through the Great Depression with no shoes on her feet. People in slavery separated from family with hard labor and no end in sight. Even now, others face hardships that make their experience much more difficult, whether blindness or homelessness. Staying home and Zooming feels easier when you put it in context. Humans can do hard things—the strength of so many others proves this.
Anonymous
This is my approach as well. I don’t look at it as “it could be worse,“ but more as “all these historical events are proof that humans have endured extreme challenges before.” It does put it into perspective and give me resilience.
Monday
Yep. This is why the “this generation is called to stay home and sit on the couch” meme fell flat for me, and why nobody is posting it now. Trivializing these conditions doesn’t work, but denial is unconscionable. It helps me to learn more about crises of history. Seriously. Like wars, famines, and other pandemics. Right now I am reading “Nothing To Envy” which is about people living in North Korea.
While I’m here, I’ll say it again…I’m a fully vaccinated health care worker and we’ve been instructed not to do anything differently. And I’m not. See above paragraph for perspective.
JuniorMinion
I really liked Nothing to Envy. She really paints a picture of the misinformation and lack of knowledge.
Anon
i feel the same way. a close friend, husband is a doctor, wife is pregnant, are vaccinated, so they are off to club med for a few days while they leave their toddler with vaccinated grandparents. on the one hand i’m jealous, on the other hand i think it is ridiculous that they are doing this
Anon
It’s hard not to be angry at people like that (and it doesn’t help when people here tell me the anger is wrong either). I want the vaccine so I can go to the grocery store again and maybe see my parents outdoors for the first time since March. Some people want it to live their best lives and it’s hard to swallow the resentment.
anon
Uhh the dude is a doctor not some guy who skipped the line to”live his best life”
Anonymous
Right? I want every medical provider to enjoy a respite vacation.
Anon
the OP didn’t say what kind of doctor. some doctors are working fully remotely still
anon
I don’t know any doctors working remotely. My husband is a radiologist but he still goes in every day.
Anonymous
Why though? What’s wrong with doing stuff once you’re vaccinated? Because you’ve made a martyr of yourself no one else should move on?
LaurenB
Because you’re not supposed to. The vaccine is not a get out of jail free card (until we have herd immunity from a high % of the population being vaxed) and you’re still supposed to mask, socially distant, and keep errands / travel to a minimum. This isn’t new news. No, I think the doctor going to Club Med is irresponsible.
Anon
And the wife, also vaccinated? What a huge coincidence!
Anon
The vaccines are supposed to let us go back to some semblance of normal. My God, the fun police is out.
Anonymous
Yup. Once I get the vaccine I’m waiting 4 weeks and then going to a spa.
Duckles
For real. My BFF in another city and I have a deal that the second both of us are effectively vaccinated we are hopping the next plane for a weekend reunion in New Orleans. BEIGNETS ARE ON THE HORIZON
Anonymous
Right? I hate people who get vaccinated and then risk everybody else by travelling and bringing back new variants. Also dumb for themselves personally as vaccine efficacy with new variants is unknown.
The advice from Public Health in every single country with vaccination programs is to do nothing differently after you get the vaccine. You can still spread it to others. People are so selfish. I’d go nuts if I had to live somewhere with covid and community spread.
Anonymous
I think this is insane and not grounded in reality.
Mrs. Jones
+1. The vaccine isn’t supposed to let you “get back to normal,” until there’s some herd immunity. Ugh.
Anon
+1. Unnecessary travel is insanely selfish right now. It’s the exact wrong time.
Fixitupchappie
Right or wrong, I think this type of attitude is convincing certain segments of the population not to get the vaccine. If they can’t do anything differently, and still need to keep social distancing then what’s the point?
Thanks, it has pockets!
+1 We know the vaccine will prevent transmission to some degree, but doctors don’t know how much yet, so we have to act like the vaccine only protects you and not the people around you. Plus as you said, there are variants that the vaccines aren’t super effective against, and we need to do what we can to prevent those variants from spreading.
Anonymous
The point is we get closer to herd immunity and normal life.
And the point is that they personally don’t get covid. I just can’t with ppl who think there is no point to a lifesaving vaccine if they can’t vacation afterwards. Not getting covid should be enough. You shouldn’t need a spa or vacation as motivation.
LaurenB
“I think this [still can’t travel / live a normal life after the vax] is insane and not grounded in reality.”
No, you just don’t LIKE it because you want it to be that the vax is a free pass back to 2019 life.
Anon
Yup, like clockwork, the “you’re a martyr” police are here! Congrats bros, only took you a few minutes this time. Let me spell it out to you though – I do not care what you think. Got it?
Anonymous
Okay! You don’t get to spread your angry ill informed perspective without pushback. I don’t care if you like it or not.
Anon
Lol – but you are a martyr. Well, you’re trying to be, but not everybody is falling for it.
Anon
It’s ridiculous because the jury is still out on whether vaccinated people can get asymptomatic cases and infect those around them. This doctor and his wife could have easily done a local Airbnb or something much more safely. No one is saying they can’t take a vacation, but saying that they got the vaccine and now it’s OK to do whatever, including plane travel, is exactly what is going to keep us all in this mess for way longer.
Anonymous
No it is not. This is incorrect.
anon
No. The people who are refusing vaccines are what will keep us in this. If there is no incentive to get the vaccines more people will refuse. Please don’t feed into the anti vax sentiment by taking away incentives to get it
Anon
Anonymous at 10:11, YOU are incorrect. Cite your sources. My sources are the CDC and infectious disease expert at UCSF.
Anonymous
The CDC website.
Anonymous
Why is it ridiculous? I think it’s a great idea. The vaccine works.
Anonymous
Agreed! I am jealous but 100% support their actions.
anon
What’s ridiculous about that?
Anon
I’m confused. Three groups of people who should be getting the vaccine at the front of the line are health care workers, the elderly, and pregnant women, and the ENTIRE PURPOSE of getting the vaccine is to live our best lives.
If you tell people that they can’t go back to pre-pandemic life even with the vaccine, they WILL REFUSE TO GET THE VACCINE. “Um, sorry, you can’t go on vacation even when vaccinated; we’re supposed to exist in a dystopian quarantine forever. Why aren’t people lining up to get the vaccine?????”
Anonymous
Yes! This! When I get the vaccine I’m eating inside! I cannot wait. And I’m taking public transit, which used to be a daily activity. And I’m visiting my BFF once we are both vaccinated.
Lilau
I tend to agree with this.
Also, “we’re supposed to exist in a dystopian quarantine forever” resonated with me.
Maybe it’s because I’m in a low place lately, but I think there is certain percentage of people dedicated to this idea. Maybe it’s a different form of mental health issue, but I really think some people are benefiting from the world this way and I’m terrified they’ll find reasons for us to never get back to any in person interaction with others, or at least to continue to shame and belittle those of us who do.
Anon
Out of all the bad takes on this thread, yours is the worst. Do you have any idea how offensive it is for people here who are privileged enough to have gotten the vaccine post about their non-essential travel while the rest of us are still stuck at home, dealing with high-risk conditions and family problems, and then have people like you say that the real issue is that we’re “dedicated to existing in a dystopian quarantine forever?” I’d say that YOU are the one dedicated to that since your actions will prolong this damn nightmare for all of us. There is so much callous cruelty on this board that it makes me wonder how many of you are actual sociopaths.
anon
I agree with Lilau.
If someone else’s pictures are causing you that much angst, block them or take a break from social media. Personally I love seeing people post about getting the vaccine! It gives me hope! And if someone’s post vaccine vacation post stirs jealously that pushes someone to get the vaccine, all the better. Shots in arms are the goal people!
There is never going to be zero risk of covid but we can do a lot to bring down the risk and our best hope is vaccines so anything that promotes that is great in my book
Anon
With all due respect, the emotion you are experiencing is jealousy, which is not the same thing as people being sociopaths.
Lilau
“I’d say that YOU are the one dedicated to that since your actions will prolong this damn nightmare for all of us. “
What on earth are you talking about? My opinion on a message board?
I’m literally taking no actions that could endanger you and I’m basically confined to my home. I’ve posted here repeatedly that I’ve lost an immediate family member to lockdown- related substance depression and abuse and on Friday i lost a more extended family member to covid and I’m wrestling with guilt about not going to the socially distanced funeral because I’m pregnant. I’m suffering like everyone else. I’m just not willing to pretend that doctors, once vaccinated, are the villains here. Gently, if you are, you’re supporting my point about mental health. You don’t seem well.
Anonymous
Ew, no. People do not want this pandemic to never end so they don’t have to leave their homes. That is not a thing and it’s gross that you would think that. They simply want other people to take this seriously so we can all get back to normal faster.
LaurenB
It’s the obnoxious extroverts who can’t handle not partying who are keeping us in the “dystopian nightmare.”
Anon
Lilau, I think there is a very small set of extreme introverts that are loving this and are truly anxious about the world returning to normal. I do not think it is anywhere near a large group of people to be worth worrying about.
Anon
Uh, why would this be ridiculous? The vaccines works, and I do think that the data will eventually bear out that vaccinated people will not transmit the coronavirus in significant ways. As soon as I get my second shot, I am travelling.
Anon
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2021/01/419691/covid-19-vaccine-fact-vs-fiction-expert-weighs-common-fears
Anon
Yeah, this says “maybe” vaccinated people will spread coronavirus, and as I stated I think that the data will eventually bear out that they won’t spread it in significant ways.
Cat
Adding to the “not ridiculous” vote here. The guy is a doctor! He’s been dealing with the pandemic in person for 10 months! Let him and his family enjoy their safe escape!
Anon
+1 And even non-doctors have been dealing with the pandemic. We’re allowed to have fun!
Anon
Such a privileged mindset. Travel is a luxury, not a necessity. But screw all the essential workers at the airport who aren’t vaccinated, right?
Anonymous
Nope! Not correct.
Cat
?? These people are vaccinated. It would be – as articles have stated, most eloquently in the NYT about two weeks ago – highly unusual for a vaccinated person to be able to spread the illness that they are vaccinated against.
Anon
I’m as liberal as they come so I don’t want you to think this is the stock market poster commenting.
There was no real economic bailout for industries that lost all of their income due to the pandemic. These people are barely hanging on. I’m excited to see the restaurant and travel industry get some business again, even before we know 100% about the vaccine, as many of those workers are facing eviction or foreclosure.
Maybe Biden will do better than Trump but I really do not believe we will see the kind of relief package that will help those individuals anywhere near as close as “opening back the economy.” The only way to open back the economy is with mass vaccination.
Anon
“Travel is a luxury, not a necessity.”
Not something I really want to hear on a board that features $3,000 suits and discussions about million-dollar mortgages, private high schools, travel to Europe, and properly investing seven-figure retirement accounts.
Vicky Austin
I mean, you’re absolutely entitled to your feelings, but isn’t that the dream? Isn’t that why we wanted a vaccine?
Anon
they have a child who is not vaccinated, so they could bring the virus back to him
Anonymous
The research is pretty clear that the vaccine does prevent spreading the virus actually.
anon
This is insanity. The research isn’t definitive but there also is no indication that vaccinated people can spread it. To say that everyone must remains fully locked down even post vaccine means there’s little incentive to get the vaccine
Anon
To date, 21 children between the ages of 1 and 4 have died of COVID, compared with 3,409 deaths from all causes during the same time frame: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm
Anon
The fact that two doctors got the vaccine does not mean the pandemic is over for the rest of us. Haven’t there been 1 million posts here lately warning us all that the vaccine is not a get out of jail free card? I’m really starting to see the point of that poster who said that this forum is an extremely bad place to crowdsource advice about science though.
LaurenB
Just because there are jerks who are refusing the vaccine doesn’t make it any safer for the vaccinated doctor and his spouse to go to Club Med. I could see travel for something more essential, such as a relative’s funeral, but really, everyone can live without a vacation for 6 more months, it’s not the end of the world.
Anonymous
Some people refuse hope.
Anon
And others reject science.
Anonymous
The science is actually quite clear- the vaccine keeps you from getting or spreading Covid.
anon
Please post an actual studying showing that people who are vaccinated are actually contributing to spread. I have not seen this. I have seen lots of “we don’t know if it prevents spread” but that is definitely not the same as “it does not at all stop spread” and to conflate the two is really contributing to a growing anti vax sentiment which is bad for everyone
Anon
No, the science is not clear on that, actually, and that’s before even considering the new variants. So much fake news here…
Anonymous
You’re looking for a specific study? The public health authorities in every western democracy are not smart enough for you. Your personal views on one study are smarter than thousands of public health experts? No wonder it’s going to take us ages to get out of this. We’ll all mostly be vaccinated in 6 months. People can make it six months more without a vacation.
Anon
isn’t the CDC guidance to keep behaving the same way you did before you had the vaccine until we have herd immunity?
i understand the argument that people don’t like that guidance/wonder why they should get the vaccine, but that is still is the guidance, isn’t it? there are some people for whom the vaccine won’t be effective. children won’t be vaccinated for a long time. people you come into contact with might not yet have the vaccine. there are new variants, etc.
not looking to argue about whether we like the guidance, but that is what it is, right?
anon
Part of the CDC guidance is to encourage things like mask wearing, etc.
Also every other vaccine in existence slows community spread there is no reason to think this won’t be the case for this vaccine either. Of course it’s not certain and the recommendations are to still be cautious.
Maybe you are blessed to not know any anti vaxxers but they are everywhere and they are a much much bigger threat to us than a doctor taking a vacation after ten months after getting vaccinated. Just on today’s post alone there are multiple people taking about people refusing vaccines.
anon
Well of people reject getting the vaccine because they are scared about side effects, think the government is conspiring against them or now are told there is no benefit to getting vaccinated because you have to stay fully locked down, then no, we won’t all be vaccinated in six months and we will never reach herd immunity
Anon
There are not going to be definitive studies that show if there is or isn’t transmission in those who have been vaccinated. The vaccine has been approved for ~ 2 months, Studies take time. A lot of time, effort, and money. Experts are giving their best guesses based on the info is available and the science we do know.
Anon
OK, there’s a lot of fake news on this thread. Here’s some info from a Washington Post article (selected that because it’s easy-reading and it cited leading experts):
“The arrival of coronavirus vaccines is beginning to have an impact on everyday life, with millions of newly inoculated Americans eagerly anticipating a return to long-postponed activities and visits with sorely missed relatives and friends. But with Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease expert, warning that vaccinations are not a “pass,” the recently inoculated are engaged in a new round of complicated risk-benefit assessments. What can I safely do? Where can I go? And how do I interact with people who are not vaccinated?…
Experts agree broadly on many issues people have questions about. But they differ on details and lack some important information. They still don’t know, for example, whether people who are vaccinated can get asymptomatic infections and pass them on to those who are not inoculated — which is why they urge people to continue to wear masks and practice social distancing even after receiving their shots. Scientists also are racing to determine how much protection vaccines offer against the highly transmissible variants popping up in the United States….
Many public health experts say while vaccinated people can enjoy a bit more freedom — flying while masked, for example, is far less of a risk after inoculation — behavior should not change much. Besides the concern that inoculated people might serve as carriers of the virus, they note a small number might still get covid-19 while the virus is circulating so widely, although the chances of hospitalization or death are low…
Anon
thank you for sharing this! i understand that people don’t like this message…but we dont get to choose what science we like and what science we don’t
Anonymous
Thank you! Here’s another Washington Post article about how it’s time for us all to upgrade our masks/wear double masks as the new variants emerge: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/01/27/double-mask-variants-guidance/
Thanks, it has pockets!
Thank you for this!
I do think some “normal” activities can be cautiously resumed once members of the general populations get vaccinated. For example, I anticipate my partner and I being able to visit our immediate families, once everyone’s vaccinated. Big family gatherings though? Maybe those wait until Thanksgiving. I see us possibly going to restaurants and eating outside, maybe with other vaccinated folks. Indoor dining though? Spending hours in a bar with friends? Maybe that waits until the doctors agree it’s safe. Same with travel, I’d love to travel again but I’m fine waiting until we know it’s safe to go places just for fun, but maybe this summer there’ll be some leeway to go to our local beaches. I’m excited to be able to pop over to Whole Foods just for a few things, but I’ll still wear a mask until experts give the go-ahead to take them off.
I don’t think it’s a 0-60 change, we’ll go back to things gradually until we have sufficient herd immunity to really get back to normal. But planning to do ALL THE THINGS exactly two weeks after your second shot isn’t the way.
Anonymous
Agree with ALL of this. There’s a big difference between taking some still-cautious local-ish risks and doing “all the things.”
Anonymous
I think it’s posts like these that are frustrating. You could have eaten outside in June. You could have started seeing a small group of people months ago. Restaurants are at 25% capacity indoors here, and people go!
Anon
But how has that been going?
Anon
I mean, so far almost everyone I personally know who has gotten the virus and everyone I know who has died from it was a food service worker who was careful to mask up when indoors!
Anonymous
I think a big part of the problem today is that people don’t get the difference between “it’s allowed” and “it’s safe to do.” The standards set by many counties are made by politicians and business people with zero background in public health or science. I don’t take their recommendations on face value when they don’t pass the basic smell test.
LaurenB
Restaurants being open at low capacity isn’t really a good public health move, though — it’s just being done to acknowledge the fact that it is the livelihood for a lot of low-paid workers. Just because it’s being done doesn’t mean it’s the smartest move – it’s just possibly the least of two evils.
Thanks, it has pockets!
I mean sure, it was legal to do that stuff months ago, but that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea! My point is, I’ll feel better doing those things once I get vaccinated, and my family gets vaccinated.
Why are my COVID precautions frustrating for other people? I’m not saying others have to live like me, nor am I whining about my self-imposed cage with the hope that someone will tell me it’s okay to do that stuff now. Do whatever you want, follow local guidelines, but I’m gonna err on the side of safety for the time being.
anon
This specifically endorses flying while masked, which is what this couple is doing.
Anonymous
No, it does not “endorse” it. It says it’s “less of a risk,” which is good news for people who must travel to help sick relatives and so on.
“Many public health experts say while vaccinated people can enjoy a bit more freedom — flying while masked, for example, is far less of a risk after inoculation — behavior should not change much.”
You’d have to interpret that pretty dang generously to hear “flying for pleasure is endorsed by experts.”
anon
Seriously. There are definitely posters here who I am convinced just want the world shut down forever
theguvnah
no- we just want the country actually shut down for like a month so we can stop this thing.
Pro-tip: nothing in the US ever shut down. that’s why we have 400,000 dead, countless others facing a lifetime of disability, and no real light at the end of the tunnel.
anon
I think we are well passed the point of having a proper shutdown. If that’s what you’re looking for you’re going to be angry for a very long time. I honestly do not get the indignation over two vaccinated people doing something many non-vaccinated people have been doing this entire time. Especially if they are masked/keeping their distance.
Anonymous
YES! It is so very frustrating to read these comments. Is it just one person who wants to stay home forever? I fully plan to travel and eat indoors as soon as I can after I receive my second vaccine dose. I fully support the doctor and wife taking a vacation. I want all of the readers of this board to hear another opinion, outside of the one ANON poster who wants to stay home forever, stewing in her resentment and judgement.
Anonymous
Wow, this thread just made me so much MORE discouraged. I thought we all kind of agreed (at least here where the readership is educated) that vaccines are not a free pass, that the pandemic is still raging, that people who are lucky enough to get vaccinated have responsibilities to others to avoid non-essential risky activities…but now I’m wondering whether I need to cancel my planned vacation in 2022 in time to get my money back.
Anon
i’m with you. i also don’t suddenly understand this concept of ‘agreeing.’ yes, we don’t have to follow the guidance of the CDC, the White House, etc., but presumably they have more expertise in this than you or I do, and it seems like it would make sense to listen to the experts, even if you don’t like what the experts are saying…
anon
But they aren’t traveling with a group! They aren’t going to a party! They are almost assuredly wearing masks on the plane! Because it’s required! So like —- sure, it’s possssible to spread it even if vaccinated but that would be if you are at a party, unmasked, with people outside of your household. This vacation does not bother me at all.
anon
+1000 this vacation seems like a very reasonable relaxation but not abandonment of caution post vaccine
Anon
We don’t know what they are doing at Club Med, actually, but it doesn’t appear to be a solo walk in the woods. Inequality in the US has never been more obvious than during this pandemic.
Anon
@12:27 – I might be misunderstanding your point re inequality. Are you saying because other people aren’t vaccinated and can’t vacation then no one should?
Anon
Yes, I do not believe that anybody should be traveling for nonessential vacations right now. It’s a pretty bad look to do that, even if you are vaccinated, while low-income Latino parents who cannot get vaccinated yet are crammed six to a room in Los Angeles and considering sleeping in their cars to avoid passing covid to their kids. Whenever I see people on this site acting like travel is such a necessity, it’s just really emphasizes how the consequences of this pandemic are not being borne equally by all of us. I wish we had a national spirit of sacrifice and “in this together” rather than “I got mine.”
Me again
Update to flag story.
Someone (not me) asked about the flag. I should have mentioned we are not Americans. XD
Anyway dude apologized at the beginning of the next meeting and said it’s the flag from Assassins Creed and he didn’t think about the historical contact.
Anyway my google search tells me that the flag from assassins creed seems to have a logo in the middle of the stars but I’m going to just move on with life.
In Canada when people have anti immigration rallies or pro trump rallies they just grab any old American flags and wave them around (probably because it’s not that easy to find them here so you get what you get). They also wave the Canadian flag but upside down.
I think waving old American flags has become a universal racism indicator in Canada. We don’t know much about American flag history (other than old
flags are from slavery days). The only time we see old American flags are on bumper stickers in the company of other questionable stickers or at racist protests.
I have never seen an old American flag on display anywhere in Canada and I visit Canadian museums and historic homes, I visit other people and I lived in residence at multiple universities. Was a first for me and probably the person who questioned it. I’ve also never seen anyone display an
old Canadian flag in their home. I haven’t ever seen an old Canadian flag for sale even at museums and histories sites.
Was interesting hearing from you all.
Anon
Those seem to be pretty significant omissions from the original post.
We see your flag mainly at hockey games. Canadian flags — they exist.
M
Lol what flag? Are people bringing the red ensign to hockey games? Because that’s just crazy I have never seen anyone do this.
And all I didn’t mention was Canada. Which admittedly was relevant
Anonymous
The maple leaf? Yeah, it’s big at hockey games.
Anonymous
The Canadian Flag? With the leaf on it?
It was highly relevant and I’m super annoyed you stirred up drama about this. And oh look we were all right, it wasn’t racist at all.
Anonymous
lol anyone can wave a Canadian flag. But waving an old flag that’s no longer used is just plain weird. What would that mean?
I mean the Betsy Ross is not your flag. It hasn’t been your flag in your lifetime.
Anonyez
Right? FFS.
Anon
There are conversations to be had about whether flags are patriotic in a negative way (jingoistic, etc.), but I still don’t see how glimpsing a flag in the back of a Zoom meeting necessitates that conversation. This whole thing is odd.
Anonymous
Right. Is it a Confederate flag? A swastika? If not, it’s probably just ugly decor.
Anonymous
Canada and the US have different histories. I don’t know, for example, whether Canada ever allowed slavery. But our previous flags are important to us, particularly the Betsy Ross flag, because our predecessors fought and died to escape British rule. Canada’s still part of the British Empire in whatever “they’re not in charge but Will and Kate come honeymoon here” arrangement you and Australia and other nations have with them. (That part confuses Americans a bit.) Our founding history is the story of the scrappy underdog, a real life David and Goliath story, with so very, very much to be proud of. And I think that’s why the Betsy Ross flag means so much to people. We’ve obviously screwed up plenty as a nation since 1776, but it’s one of those times (like WWII) that we can look back on and say, yes, we did something good and were on the right side of history. I really wish all the racist scum would contain themselves to the Confederate flags and leave something untainted ?
Anon
Well said!
Shelle
Thanks for the additional info. Extreme nationalism is on the rise globally, not just in the U.S., and often strongly tied to white supremacy. I went down the rabbit hole and came across the Red Ensign flag and Paul Fromm. It looks like a similar trend is happening in Canada, of co-opting historic flags and referring to a past time when the country was “great”and blaming the current state on the presence of non-white immigrants. I don’t know to what extent since I don’t follow Canadian news. I was curious since you said you’ve never seen this locally.
Cat
Wow that was a lot of drama you stirred up without context. Next.
Anonymous
Yup this
Anonymous
No, not next. It’s so easy to be in your own news bubble these days that it is important to step out occasionally and recognize what is happening elsewhere, especially when those elements are trying to keep others down.
Anonymous
?!?
Cat
did you see yesterday’s post? And now the OP comes back all “tee-hee XD I’m in Canada”? Seems like it’s designed for drama rather than thoughtful commentary.
Anonymous
Most in the thread said there was no link to white supremacists. That’s just not true: https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/22787 If you follow what’s happening with some of these militia groups and “Patriot Party” efforts that Trump is fueling, you’ll see it is being co-opted. It is a white privileged position to be able to pretend a Betsy Ross flag is just a normal decorative item for most these days. Do I think the OP was genuine with the inquiry–no. Today’s info makes me think not. But it is still information that’s important to have. Most of us aren’t aware of what QAnon or all of these other garbage groups are peddling because we’re watching normal news and living around mostly educated circles.
Anonymous
Well because everyone is an American, literally everyone in the world.
anon
This. There are plenty of people from/living in a number of countries on this board. And there are a number of countries where you could have a similar discussion re: people using out-of-date flags and their intent not being obvious.
Cat
…when you’re asking a question on a US-based s-te, about US flag symbolism and whether you’re interpreting correctly, you don’t think it’s relevant to include the fact that you (and perhaps the other person) both live in another country?
Anon
Wanted to add that there is a whole contingent of people out there that believes any symbol of American history is by nature racist because they believe America is by nature racist. That means you will definitely be able to find people who think absolutely anything is racist. I don’t deny that they have a point much of the time and that critical analysis of symbols is important, but I don’t agree with it to that level (racism by association) and I’m not obligated to go along with it. Neither are you.
Anonymous
Things aren’t that wildly different in Canada. I have a metric sh*t ton of antiques as a Canadian history buff, some of which are American.
Anon
I think it depends on the country and the viewer’s country. For example, anywhere in Asia outside of Joan, if you see someone with a Japanese flag, that’s usually a clear sign that this person is a Nazi-like Japanese nationalist who refuses to apologize for Japan’s war crimes. But in North America, it’s not uncommon to see such flags in Japanese-owned sushi restaurants and people usually don’t get the same connotation.
annette
What?!? I of course know the history between Japan and Korea, but if a Japanese family had a Japanese flag up in their sushi restaurant in Korea . . . that wouldn’t be weird.
Anon
There is a Japanese restaurant in my town that posts a Japanese flag as decor (not the imperial Japanese flag). My Chinese American relatives will not go anywhere near it and instead chose to order from another Japanese restaurant farther away.
The one time I ate there, I had to ask for cold water, when the white family next to me was served tea automatically. Of course, no one told me to my face that I was not welcomed there as a person of Chinese descent. I cannot say if the presence of the flag is an accurate correlation with this kind of treatment, but in my personal experience as a Chinese American, it has been mostly true.
annette
To be clear, are you saying that you automatically assume all Japanese restaurants, or Japanese restaurants that post a flag (many of them) are racist towards Chinese-Americans? And your evidence for this is one restaurant where they did not serve you well?
I’m just trying to understand.
Of course there is still Chinese-Japanese tension, but I don’t think a regular ole Japanese flag is a sign for it!
Anon
Based on my post, I’m telling you my experience and the conclusions I have drawn based on those experience. You can differ. But to somehow write my opinion off and deny my experience is insensitive. You are better than that.
Maybe you should read up more on Japanese WWII history. I recommend the book “Embracing Defeat” by an American historian, and “The Rape of Nanking” by Iris Chiang. The former offers a good explanation for why Japan was not held as accountable for its crimes as Germany, and the resulting nationalism and lack of guilt on the Japanese consciousness. The latter might help you understand the degree of unrecognized trauma that Japan inflicted during WWII on non-whites.
annette
I’ve read those books and I do understand it. Maybe you should be less condescending.
Anon
Any Japanese flag, or the flag of Imperial Japan? The latter would give me the willies if I saw it up and about in a context outside of a museum/exhibit, but the current flag, nah. Flags-as-decor aren’t my thing, but many are just kind of tacky decor.
annette
The first post said “see someone with a Japanese flag” so I meant . . . . a flag of Japan.
Anon
In Australia, people (individuals not businesses) wearing or displaying our flag strongly indicates they are racists, or if on a flagpole at a home, weirdly, recent English migrants.
Anon
I am a Canadian and have seen a number Dominion era flags displayed in lots of places, including the foyer of a Bay Street law firm. I don’t agree with any of your assertions about how Canadians view old, American flags. Definitely not my personal opinion.
Anon
I am Canadian and seen lots of Dominion era flags on display, including in the foyer of a Bay Street law firm. I don’t agree with your characterizations at all.
Anonymous
One of the things I’m working on in therapy is having a better sense of self/who I am/what I want. I, like many high achievers, have always been a check the box/do what the most “normal” thing is person. I’ve also always worked a ton which distracted me from…everything. Due to serious illness, my life has gone off track and I’m having trouble grounding myself. My friends are all living very similar lives to what I wanted, and that life is not available to me anymore. I think I lack inspiration for other paths my life good take.
This feels like a silly question, but for those of you who struggled with this, how do you actually figure out what is important to you/who you are?
Anonymous
Two suggestions, one serious, one more frivolous.
First, make a five year plan. It can include jobs, or relationships, or financial goals. The categories you choose may surprise. If you’ve always been career focused, maybe suddenly you want to reconnect with family, start or change your relationship, etc. Put as much detail as you can in. Set it aside.
Second, do your colors!! And figure out your body type, and a bra that fits perfectly. If you haven’t already done so, just knowing what looks good on you goes so far to making you feel empowered. Plus, online shopping is a fun distraction :)
Knowing your goals, without putting too much pressure on yourself in this pandemic timel to achieve then just yet, and writing them out may energize you. And dressing your fine self for the body you have right now may also do wonders. Just my $0.02.
Moonstone
Honestly, some of this perspective just came with age. Also, I devoted myself so intensely to my job in my 20s and early 30s and then grew disillusioned with the work, so that opened my eyes to the fact that work is important but it’s not the only thing and I needed to allow myself a lot more unstructured time and room to relax. Best of luck to you.
anon
This resonates a lot. The disillusionment of a career and the work is real and does tend to reset priorities.
OP, maybe it would help to think in terms of goals or what you ideally want from a variety of categories.
– Family relationships – What level of closeness do you want? Are any in need of repair? What does family life look like to you?
– Friendships – What types of friendships are fulfilling, and which relationships are worth investing your time and energy?
– Leisure time – How do you want to spend those precious hours outside of work? This can be a fun area of discovery if you’re willing to experiment a bit.
– Health – To the extent that you can control this and under your current circumstances, how do you define what healthy looks like for you (physically and mentally)
– Spirtuality – Even if religion isn’t your thing, it’s worth thinking about what brings you meaning and clarity.
AT
I’m sorry to hear your life has been knocked significantly off track. For me asking “what matters” and “why” has helped me reinvent my life. Figuring out my dream retirement and working the path backwards has also helped. Best of luck!
Anonymous
I could have written this! I am struggling with the same thing. A counselor asked me what my goals are and I burst into tears because they have been exploded. But I have been pulling together a personal plan that lists the things I can do to best support my health, and a list of all the things I can do to protect and improve my new financial situation, and have been tackling both.
CPA Lady
I’ve come to a couple different big forks in the road where I had to let go of how I thought my life would go. One was career related, the other was health related.
A couple “start small” ideas —
1. Read The Happiness Project.
2. Think about what you enjoyed doing as a child. When I had my health thing, I spent a lot of time at home at first, and had to come up with new hobbies to pass the time. I just tried a bunch of different things, including building a large lego kit, and making paper models of buildings. I did a bunch of jigsaw puzzles. These were all revivals of hobbies I had as a child. Some things stuck, some things didn’t. Just pay attention to how you feel when you’re doing something — are you stressed and irritated by something that is supposed to be “fun”? Or are you happy and excited and can’t wait to do xyz thing?
3. Time. This is the most annoying thing. But I think major life adjustments just take time to grapple with and come to terms with, mentally. It may take months to years to be able to gain perspective on what you’re going through now. You are also comparing your insides with other people’s outsides. I was lamenting to a mentor of mine about my career “derailment” and how much I envied people who had followed the track I had always imagined for myself. She told me that a lot of these people that I admire lament to her that they are not particularly happy. Also, five years later, I’m at a really surprisingly great place in my career. I’m actually probably a lot better off than I would have been if I would have been able to stay the course in the way I thought I would.
anna
Multiple therapists have told me some version of “do what you did as a child” and I do think it is good advice! What a great childish dream you can easily realize, to be an adult and be able to buy the 120 piece coloring pencil set you wanted as a kid. It’s pretty fun to think of what you can do with the things you liked to do as a kid now that you are an adult with time and money to do it exactly as you want
anon
Honestly, this is so true. As a kid I most enjoyed going to the barn and riding horses. And I still do as an adult! It’s really the only thing that let’s me disconnect, put my phone away for a bit, and fully be in the moment. The feeling of joy is still the same as when I was a kid.
Notinstafamous
I really like the designing your life book by Evans & Burnett for a structured way to think about things
Anon
So I will disagree with some of the above posters, and suggest you not make a 5 year plan or another list of goals right now. It’s too much like giving yourself another list to check off, and I don’t know if that is going to help you? (I say this as a recovering list-checker.)
Could you maybe try to fill out one of those life balance wheel assessment charts and see what areas of your life you want to focus on? It’s like a pie chart and each slice represents an area on your life, and you put how fulfilled you are in each area – and then you can maybe pick one area to focus on and then reassess in a few months. (If you just search “Wheel of Life” a bunch of results come up.)
CHL
Agree – one of the exercises I liked in a design thinking workshop like this was folding a piece of paper into 8 squares and then drawing 8 different scenarios for your life in 5 years – so like in one you’re a partner, one you’re in house with two kids, one you go back to school and do eForesnics or whatever. It’s easy to do 3 or 4 but by 6 you’re coming up with kind of random stuff that sparks interesting thoughts, like even if I don’t want to quit and be a yoga instructor, I could take a specialized course or something like that.
anon
For me, when my ” life as I’d hoped it” got exploded what helped was mid-term goals – things where I could spend 6-8 weeks on something. I had no idea what the future would bring, and the things I most hoped for (spouse, baby, career back on track…) were things I had zero to little control over, and thinking about that made me sad. But I would decide I wanted to be able to do a pullup. Or learn a piano piece. Or call a friend every Sunday. Or read “Square Foot Gardening” and plant a garden. Or read “Flavour” and learn to be a much better cook. Choosing things where I could see progress within 6-8 weeks helped SO much.
Also, I encourage you to think about goals in different categories – health goals (if that’s not too depressing), relationship goals (time to connect with old friends, family, etc), work goals, joy goals (I’m serious! Here was dedicated to making sure I focused on things that brought me joy!).
As far as joy goals go, I also each morning made a list of 3 things I wanted to do each day just for fun – super small things allowed. Just saying “I want to finish listening to that podcast, and buy some peaches, and call this friend” would orient me to the good things in my life, and let me feel like I’m accomplished something. And, I learned a lot about myself in this way!
Lastly – big “hug” to you. It’s so so hard. One of the most helpful things someone told me during this time (someone who was widowed at 30, so had some street creed in suffering), was “It won’t be the same, but that doesn’t mean it won’t be GOOD”. I found that to be true in my own life – it’s not the same, and in my case it took several years longer than I’d like, but I’m back to GOOD. GOOD that isn’t what I imagined my life would look like, but might be even better:-)
Monday
Having my plans upended was actually what brought clarity for me. I wouldn’t wish illness on anyone, nor any other major life-disruptors, but they do have a way of shaking out false goals and ideals. You can’t just follow the flock anymore once you’ve been separated from it.
What do you know for sure that you want? What are you certain you don’t want? If you were to base all your decisions around one thing, what might it be? (Common answers are: my partner, my family, living in a specific place, or doing a specific job.) I’m a list person, so I recommend this kind of journaling. Don’t rule anything out at this stage.
Anonymous
This. My life has been upended in one of those “how is she getting out of bed, every day? I wouldn’t” kind of ways, and having no goals is helpful. You sort of have to be adrift for a while, and know that things that used to be important, won’t be anymore. The experience kind of distills you down to your essence, in a way. When you find your footing, it’s incredibly powerful in some ways – the pain can make you feel pretty little invincible.
Senior Attorney
Okay, this is going to be the lamest suggestion you get all day, but it helped me: I made a “dream board” on Pinterest, where I pinned photos of things that I wanted to have in my life, and things that were inspiring to me. At the time some of them seemed far beyond my reach but six or eight years later, most if not all of them have either arrived or are on the horizon. And just the act of choosing the pictures helped me figure out what I wanted.
Anon
Invest in friendships (not just with people with your illness or similar), it’s good to hear about the ups and downs of their lives and every now and then I feel grateful not to have that job/teenager/problem and it helps to hang out with people who remember you the way you were. Old friends from school whose paths diverged from mine and even my friends’ parents and my mother’s friends have been sources of realisation about different types of fulfilling lives.
You didn’t ask this, but I’d also recommend future-proofing. This might not be applicable to you, but get advice from an occupational therapist and get the equipment and home modifications sooner rather than later. Trials, approvals and ordering take months and months.
anon
This is admittedly a frivolous and dumb question. I’ve started lighting candles recently since they perk things up and make me feel good. I’ve finished burning through 2 of them (i.e., the wick won’t light and looks like it’s at the bottom and burnt out) but there’s still a fair bit of wax in there, like a half inch or so. is that normal? Or am I burning my candles wrong?
Anonymous
That’s normal
anon
Depends on the candle brand, but that’s pretty normal IME.
MagicUnicorn
If you burn them long enough in one go to melt the wax out to the sides of the container, that minimizes the “tunneling” effect.
For candles that still do this but smell too nice to toss, I have chiseled the unused wax out and put it in a tart melter to enjoy it a little longer.
Cat
Normal. I saw a suggestion to scrape out those last bits and put them in a wax warmer thing to enjoy the aroma longer.
Anon
Ok I don’t know what this says about us but I had planned on asking the exact same question today! I have like 4 scented candles on rotation in my home office and I don’t know what to do with that 1/2 ” of wax left. Solidarity, ‘rette!
Anon
If you light a fire in your fireplace or during the summer in your fire pit, you can use the leftover wax to help start the fire more quickly. That is what I have always done with that half inch of wax after I have chiseled it out of the bottom of the candle. You just set it on the newspaper underneath the kindling when you are making your fire. Of course, you can also use the leftovers as a wax melt for the scent, but the above is a practical option if you don’t want to do that.
ollie
I have a candle warmer (just a small hot plate) that i use when the wicks go out – lets you use the remaining wax until the smell is gone!
Anon
Also, if your candles “tunnel” you can put them in the toaster or oven at the lowest setting for like 10 min (keep the wick as long as you can) and it will even out. I sometimes have to throw a little wax out if the wick gets submerged but it makes my candles stick around so much longer.
Anon
I use the warming burner on my stove to finish off candles. Eventually, they start smelling burned instead of like the original candle which is my cue that they’ve lived their life. I can also salvage most candle containers this way. (Warm it up, pour out the remaining wax, clean it up with dish soap and/or GooGone.)
Anon
The first time you light them you’re supposed to let them burn until all the wax is melted – I think it may be ~ 1 hour per inch? I think that’s a thing people do?
Anon
My job thinks that we who are WFH during the pandemic are just people doing their job at home (so the big challenge for employees is being lonely, possibly bored) and need to fill their day with scheduled-in continuing ed zooms (like I just got 6 invitations).
It’s like they have no idea that a good chunk in my city are home b/c schools remain closed over a year in, with the addition of chaos, school overseeing, and being the lunch lady-tech help-math tutor added in during working hours. Like their work space didn’t just shift locations, but was invaded by noise and a million more non-chargeable tasks.
Groundhog Day indeed.
Anonymous
I would lose my ish on whoever’s scheduling that kind of nonsense.
anne-on
My boss on a review call mentioned that I didn’t see like I was performing up to my usual standards this fall and I had to mute myself as I almost burst into tears. This fall I had to find and onboard a new sitter, I was just coming back from an unpaid sabbatical to cover the no-camp no-childcare situation, and my workload if anything INCREASED. Plus, you know, global pandemic, homeschool, etc. etc.. But yea, I was slipping. Sorry, I’ll do better about managing my work life balance next time we have a total breakdown in societal safety nets. Argh.
Lilau
Hugs. My employer stared implementing daily timesheets with wfh, (so these meetings are actually a blessing because you don’t have to worry about your boss questioning the time and you can try to eat lunch during them.) Anyway…they’ve addressed childcare issues with “flexibility” meaning they are encouraging people to work at night while their children sleep. So I guess I’m just supposed to sleep for 4 hours a night for years at a time? Its too much.
Anonymous
No. You’re supposed to get childcare.
Clementine
I say this with so much love, dude – I’m TRYING. I have full time childcare. In fact, in the before times, I regularly had full time childcare plus back up childcare plus back-up ‘just in case I get stuck at work, this is the person who has it on their calendar’ childcare for the busy season.
What I’m seeing is really REALLY impossible isn’t every day childcare, it’s a situation where on Sunday night at 10PM you’re getting an email saying that your kids classroom is going to be remote tomorrow. Or getting contact traced because – GUESS WHAT? There was a COVID case your kid was exposed to.
Also, every. Single. Stuffy nose? Oh yeah, I’ve got to pull all my kids out of school and childcare and get the stuffy nose kid tested and nobody can go back without documentation of a negative result (and rapid tests aren’t accepted, it must be a PCR or equivalent test).
What I’m saying is: most people you hear on here talking about childcare – it’s not that we don’t understand how to acquire childcare. Yep. Got that. It’s that we are being constantly placed in impossible situations.
Now, in the scenario I just talked about, what should I have done? Expose the child to their unvaccinated grandparents? No. Of course not. Bring in a nanny? Well, right now all the college students have cleared out of my city and the going rate is $30 an hour AND it wouldn’t help me anyway in the scenarios I described because I wouldn’t feel comfortable bringing them around kids showing symptoms/awaiting testing.
If the answer was as simple as ‘get childcare’, TRUST ME. Woulda jumped on that.
Walnut
“Get Childcare” lolololol
Trust me, paying $5k a month for childcare I couldn’t every month of the pandemic wasn’t in my 2020 goals or career development plan.
Anon
Whenever there are comments like this, I want to call the poster’s parents and ask them where they went wrong.
Anonymous
You clearly don’t have kids. Or if you do, you don’t have any empathy. You clearly have no clue what’s going on in this country right now.
Anon.
Gently – WTF?
I have a precondition, and am privileged enough to be working from home.
My family has been keeping our son home since March because the risk of exposure through sending him to school is still too high for my personal condition.
We are managing somehow with splitting our time between early mornings, midday, afternoons, and night work shifts.
And please don’t come to me with bullshit like: “Kids don’t transmit”. I’m a biologist, I read scientific papers. Kids likely contribute as much to spread as adults, especially when case numbers are as high as they are now.
Anon.
Also forgot, the last thing I’m doing in a pandemic is arrange for a stranger (how about local college students, huh??) to come to my house to babysit.
Bless your heart.
Pompom
Pfft! Wut?! Anon at 10:31…?!
I don’t have kids but know this is perhaps the most inaccurate and incorrect and insensitive answer. Oh goodness. I’m perplexed as to why you thought to share this.
anon
Oh sweetie, you really don’t get how this works, do you. If only it were that simple.
Anon
Ok, I will say that there are definitely people who refuse to use any childcare and they really ought to be using day care, I agree, but as everyone else pointed out childcare centers are not open consistently for covid related reasons, often with little to no notoice. There is Covid leave but not nearly enough. My kid’s daycare has been closed yesterday and today so I’ve been juggling with my husband. I cannot have anyone come over to help. It’s tough.
Mrs. Jones
You are the worst.
Anon
I am not the above commenter and do have empathy, however, a lot of people in my organization do have childcare available but they are using WFH flexibility to not have to pay for childcare. This is an abuse of WFH in my opinion.
Cb
Argh, this is my husband’s office latest tactic. There was a period where they were great, and then when we went back into lockdown, they didn’t extend the policy. And to the commentator suggesting you get childcare – erm, good luck with that. Where I live, nurseries are closed, childminders are only operating with existing children, and nannies are strongly discouraged.
anne-on
Btw to the smug ‘get childcare poster’ one of the things that Trump ax’d was the J1 visas. I (and many, many other working women) used au pairs as child care to cover sick days/school closures/etc. There were NO new J1 visas being issued, so the au pair we matched with was not able to come, every working parent I know was suddenly seeking nannies/sitters from the same small pool and grandparent care was out the window because you don’t want to expose grandparents. Hence the unpaid sabbatical while I frantically hunted down a sitter. And btw the fact that I WAS able to do that is insanely privileged.
But sure, appreciate the empathy there.
Anon
Can you elaborate a bit on what is going on here? What are the continuing ed zooms? Are they mandatory? Are you behind on your CLE/CME requirements?
Anonymous
Training on . . . Interviewing, a movie on Important Historical Event (via zoom, so bad screen and perpetually reconnecting), trivia night, summer hire group call (no summer hires for my department). Like maybe work on work that pays? Vs sitting in that for a few more hours? In a blizzard so I may not have power later.
Anon
Decline.
Anonymous
So sorry! I have been ignoring all attempts at team building except those few with manager involvement in which visibility is important.
Anon
I’m a midlevel biglaw litigation associate who actually likes litigation—not the discovery fights or even really the hearings/depos, but the process of developing legal arguments in new areas of law. Are there any former litigators with similar interests who found a good fit with an in-house role? I haven’t loved the compliance work I’ve done, and don’t know how to test out in-house-type work without actually leaving the firm.
As for other non-biglaw options, it seems like in a smaller firm or government role, I’d doing more of the litigation tasks I like less and less of what I like more (if I’m taking on smaller cases). I didn’t clerk, so appellate work doesn’t feel like an option. And then there’s academia, which seems impossible to break into. Any other ideas? I’m currently happy at the firm, but don’t want this lifestyle forever.
Anon
Can you try to be seconded?
Anonymous
I think you’re dramatically insultingly under-rating the legal work that gets done by firms smaller than BigLaw and government lawyers.
No Face
I didn’t take it as an insult. She doesn’t like hearings or depositions. One of my favorite things about being at a smaller firm is that I handle the hearings/depos myself, instead of prepping an equity partner. If someone doesn’t want that aspect of litigation, I would never advise moving to a smaller litigation firm.
Cat
That’s how I took it, too. She likes the academic challenge of constructing an argument but not so much the courtroom aspect. Small firm life would not be a match.
Anon
Agree. I am at a small firm and do a significant amount of complex high-level appellate work because I am quite good at it. Not all good lawyers want to be at BigLaw firms or in big cities.
In house
There are some big companies that have in house litigators that only litigate but many in house roles are not litigation centric. I spend way more time counseling and hand holding than I thought I would, and litigation is a small part of my job.
No Face
Have you considered clerking now? I know a few people who went to federal term clerk –> career clerk after doing their time at a big firm and love it. All of the legal analysis, none of the knitty gritty litigation fights. Very few late nights or weekends. There are several judges in my district who almost exclusively hire clerks who have practiced for a few years.
Senior Attorney
I clerked for a state appellate judge for a few years (they call them judicial attorneys and they are career positions) and it was one of the best jobs I ever had. If you love the nerdy side of law, it’s a dream job.
Anon
+1!
Anon
I’m following because I’m also a litigator who enjoys it, but wants an in house role. I’m in government, though, not biglaw.
Anonymous
Hmm, big company in house with a policy role? They really seem to be the only folks in-house who have the task of working on Weighty Legal Issues.
Cat
Look into public policy roles – companies in heavily regulated industries will often have a group that monitors legislation or works with regulators on upcoming proposals? They may not be JD required but a lot of people that do it have law backgrounds.
Anonymous
Have you considered becoming a judge?
KC
The openings may be limited, but what about Office of General Counsel for a SRO? At the SRO where I work (in a litigation capacity, not OGC), OGC deals with bigger picture policy questions.
anon
So, my life is really sucking right now and I need some pleasantness to make it better. I don’t have a ton of free time (although there’s some) and I’m saving aggressively right now so can’t spend a lot of money. what are little things you do to make your life more enjoyable?
Anonymous
Library books.
Candles.
Cozy sweaters.
Cleaning :)
Anonymous
+1 to library books. And splurging on bubble bath (like $15 instead of $4 ?) makes me feel fancy!
Anon
I am sorry you are having a tough time right now! I know this has been suggested a lot, but I love to take a bath and watch a mindless Netflix show like Emily in Paris. Also I don’t cook, but it is so easy to bake things out of the box and it makes the house smell so nice! Retail therapy is also fun for me. And this may sound lame, but doing things to brighten other people’s day always feels good to me – like, checking in on an old friend, sending a card to someone, buying the coffee for the person behind me at the drive through Starbucks etc. I hope that things look up for you soon!
PolyD
Mail is fun to send and receive. I’ve bought a couple of boxes of postcards off Amazon (women scientists, album covers from the 1980s), ordered some stamps from the Post Office, and send postcards to friends from time to time.
anon
Espresso and tea. Yoga. Reading (I get e-books from my library system). Deleting social media apps to make time for reading. Calling my support people. Making my bed, especially with clean sheets. Wearing really comfortable loungewear.
Ses
I like to make some of my small indulgences into more planned affairs. For example, I observe a strict teatime tea with muffin/biscuit. And I have a standing day where I have a pastry in bed and read a particular magazine. Doesn’t take all day, but it’s pure pleasantness and I look forward to it.
I also make sure there’s a fake meeting on my calendar every week so I can look forward to a bit of unstructured midday time on that day.- Yeah, I know, we used to call that Lunch, but at my company that’s not an acknowledged/ respected time block. My fake meeting is at teatime :)
Anon
I love all of this, especially the fake meeting idea. Going to steal it for today.
You know how to live! :)
anon.
Oversized sweatshirts. Huge pots of local coffee we buy that was roasted within a week or two (it tastes better I swear!). Fresh air. The usual :)
Anonymous
I have started getting audiobooks from the library through libby on my phone. I love to listen to them while I do mundane things, like clean, walk the dog, etc.
No Face
Sitting in a room by myself with interacting with anyone, which is the height of luxury now. Reading books or playing video games while I ignore chores. (All from my library).
Try slightly nicer versions of your basics – The fancy soap/tea/pasta etc. Only a few actual dollars, but feels indulgent.
arnie
Eat a proper breakfast – even 10 minutes with your favorite simple breakfast and a mug of tea and no cell phones can make a difference. Add a walk outdoors to that as possible.
In general, don’t scroll on your phone or be on a computer beyond what you need to do for work. Pick up physical books from the library or download books to a kindle or an ipad (cheating a bit on the no screens thing, but whatever)
Anonymous
Track your net worth in a spreadsheet if you don’t already. The aggressive savings feel SOOOO much more motivating when I can see a graph going up.
anonshmanon
YES!
paula
ooh a graph I should add that!
anon
my graph has three lines, one for actual savings, one for aspirational savings target, and another for more down-to-earth savings target.
Sunshine
Frozen pizza for dinner. I prefer restaurant take out, but frozen pizza still brings the happiness of a hot meal that I did not have to cook and it’s a lot cheaper than take out.
Buying a gallon of ice cream and eating a small bowl after dinner each night.
Movie with popcorn.
Afternoon walks.
Long, hot showers.
I hope things start turning around for you!
Anonymous
I baked myself a fancy cake over the weekend!
Anon
Yoga (specifically with the Down Dog app, but there’s plenty of youtube videos too). I was really never a yoga person but now I get it. It makes me feel so much better mentally and physically.
Anon
So this is extremely specific, but if you were into Harry Potter as a kid, listening to the audio books as an adult was extremely enjoyable for me during the pandemic. I also listened to the Bingemode podcast that went chapter by chapter through each books as I read (ie: Read chapters 1-3, listen to the discussion on chapters 1-3 and followed through all the books). It took me all Spring and Summer to get through them this way, but it was nerdy fun. The podcast is both a deep dive and a lighthearted discussion of the chapters and it was kind of like reading the books alongside friends.
cbackson
If winter has you down: today is Candlemas, which means we’re halfway to the spring equinox. This is a good excuse to light tons of candles in your house, eat crepes, and remember that notwithstanding how long this particular winter of our discontent may seem, we’re on the upswing toward spring.
Anon
I love winter and wish it would last forever. I’m not looking forward to more heat waves and pandemic/fire season while I’m trapped inside. Much better to be cozy indoors and not sweating my ass off! I do know several people who used to hate winter and have grown to love it and I think that is a really good approach.
Anon
I don’t hate winter, have not missed a single day outside despite wind chill below 20 F some days. What I hate is darkness so early that I cannot get outside to hike after work, so my focus is longer days. Getting better every day.
Anon
Get a headlamp! It might not be a daily activity, but a night hike with a headlamp is awesome. Great job on getting out so much though, that’s awesome.
Anon
Headlamp on the trails I hike, with no phone service is a hard pass. It’s a lovely idea for certain circumstances, but not mine.
Anon
For me, it’s about safety. Summer weather has never made me destroy a car, or break my tailbone in a fall. (This is of course climate-based, summer can be deadly in many places.)
I’m hoping that pandemic-induced remote work will make this less of an issue in the future. Any time I’ve hurt myself in the winter, it was due to being forced to report to work during ice or sleet.
Airplane.
I will be doing this, thank you! I’ve only recently gotten into candles and it is so pleasant to be be home all the time and have a candle burning. I’m going to make waffles instead of crepes, because I have a new stovetop waffler, but that’s close!
Anonymous
My uncle died suddenly (not COVID related) yesterday. Because these are crazy COVID times, I’m looking for ideas on how to show support. He was 68 with 3 grown sons (one married, none have kids) and lived with his wife of FOREVER years (my dad’s sister). His passion was sailing and I’m looking for perhaps a way to do some kind of memorial tied to sailing. I don’t know if it’s setting up some kind of fund/donating in his name, or doing something more like buying a bench with his name on it at his favorite launch…or even some kind of cool thing to get and send to my cousins/his sons that is a physical memento type thing.
I wasn’t super close to him, but he and his wife made the 90 minute drive to every one of my kids’ first birthday parties and he happily drank beer and talked boats with my husband at every opportunity. And my dad and his sister are very close. My cousins are all my age and I’m just so sad for them.
Anon
I’m sorry for your loss. I like the idea of buying a bench with his name on it, which is what one of my family members did for her late husband who was also into sailing. Once it’s safe to do so, you could maybe do a little ceremony at sea (do you sail?); my family typically makes a toast and pours a little alcohol into the ocean to honor my mother and grandfather. Sometimes the small ceremonial gestures can make a lot.
anon
I like the idea of making a donation in his name. When my Dad passed away unexpectedly last year my Mom got lots of flowers. They were beautiful but ultimately they had to be thrown away. Write down some of those favorite memories and send them in a card or letter to the family. Those will be much more meaningful than a physical memento.
anon
Also, I’m sorry for your loss. It’s really nice to think of the other family members during this time. A lot of people sent texts just saying they were sorry and thinking of my family and I really appreciated that.
Anonymous
Thanks– I think to me, this is one of those things where I want to support the family because it could easily have been MY dad (who is only a few years younger). My cousins are just about all my age and were very very close to their dad (they were/have been building boats together on weekends for some time now, one runs the family business with my now deceased uncle and basically just took it over so Uncle could retire, etc). Sending flowers to my aunt is…ok…but certainly not my male cousins in their 30s.
I can’t really do anything useful in the short term, so I figured researching something like this might be useful.
And our whole family boats/sails in some way. I have no doubt there will be a nautical send-off of some kind in the spring.
Anon
My area offers summer sailing school (camp) for inner city kids. Perhaps you could sponsor a kid in memory of your uncle.
pugsnbourbon
This is a great idea. If there’s not an org like this nearby, maybe a nonprofit working on ocean ecology/protection?
Ribena
This was going to be my suggestion too – or if he was a member of a sailing club with a youth program, putting some money into their fund to support talented kids who haven’t enough money to progress.
Senior Attorney
That sounds great.
And hugs, OP. I’m sorry for your loss.
Anon
I like the idea of a bench near his launch.
A lot of yachting clubs or boat clubs have their own signal flag. If he belongs to a club, send the signal flag to your cousins. If they don’t have one, pay for a designer to make one for the club.
Anonymous
Do you mean other than the one they would normally have? They do belong to a yacht club but my cousins do as well and also have one.
AFT
Donation in his name towards something you think he’d love, and also offer to help the immediate family if they want to establish a fund/do something bigger in his memory once the shock wears off?
Booties
It is lovely to send a card to each of his kids, and write a personal memory or two of their Dad. Those are really, really nice and I kept the one that I received like that.
I would send food to his wife, and a card with a memory
I love the idea of a bench or sponsoring a kid for sailing school.
Anon.
If you are looking to donate and happen be in Europe (or support the cause), you could donate to Sea Rescue. There are hundreds of immigrants drowning in the Mediterranean Sea every year, many of them children. https://msf.org.uk/issues/mediterranean-search-rescue
Anonymous
I like the idea of a donation, and if there is an obituary posted on line, write a nice comment to his wife and sons. My Dad passed away during COVID and we had a 10 person cap on the funeral. It would have been 100+ in normal times. The messages people posted were super nice because others could also read them as well. I have taken screen shots of all of them, and am going to make a picture book of the messages, his obituary, etc for my Mom and some other family members.
eertmeert
I am so sorry for your and your family’s loss. When my dad died suddenly there was so much initial support. After awhile you stop hearing from people. And it happens just around the same time you would do anything to talk about your loved one.
In addition to whatever you do now, I would also set a phone reminder to check in with your family periodically to tell them you are thinking of your uncle and of them. It doesn’t have to be anything fancy, but I would give anything to hear this from someone. Am not even 18 months out from his death and the remembrances have dried up.
MJ
Simon Pearce makes really beautiful glass mini sailboats. I would buy one for each kid plus wife and say that you hope they love them and that they remind them of their dad/husband, and write a very heartfelt condolences letter with memories.
In-house lawyer
I’d appreciate recommendations for professional development programs/providers. I’m an in-house lawyer in NYC and would like to work on my confidence and presence. I struggle with imposter syndrome often. I’d like actionable advice/things to work on from a professional. Thanks
Anon
I have enjoyed the communications and presence content from Vautier Communications. Ironically, I think their web aesthetic is not so modern/compelling but I think the content is good.
Anon
Lenore Kantor at Growth Warrior – her own company, in NYC, she was a senior marketing exec, then pivoted and became a life coach.
Pompom
Fringe PD offers coaching and workshops in this topical area (and others!).
MJ
Cheap solution: LinkedIn Learning has a course on this. If you join Premium, you get free access for a month. Do that as a quick/not-too-much-money down solution.
Protein, lifting, and weight loss
Has anyone lost weight while lifting heavy – without eating insane amounts of protein? I’m on WW and should be losing but am not, but my protein intake was only around 40g. 80 isn’t a problem, 120g might be doable, but some online calculators are telling me I need 150-180g per day to lose.
Anon
40 grams a day of protein is not adequate for you. Aim for 60-80 grams a day and see where that gets you.
Anonymous
80g is protein is more than enough for your average woman. High protein is just another food trend like low fat or Atkins before that. The average person, is not an athlete and does not need special food or carefully weighed macros, even active people don’t need that, truly!
Anonymous
I have both lost weight and gained muscle in the last year and a half via training that mostly involves lifting. I had lost 20 lbs before I started. I lost about another 15 and converted about another 5 lbs to muscle mass. I lost the initial weight mostly through calorie restriction. Soon after i started lifting, I was prescribed a diet of 150-180g protein. I tried to follow it and found that it was undoing every good habit I had built when losing the initial weight. It forced me.to overeat, which was the biggest habit I had broken, and had me restricting healthful vegetables so I could take in more protein. I almost never met the daily goal. I physically couldn’t. While trying to follow that regimen, I gained weight but also converted some weight to muscle – but I overall gained more weight. So I have rejected that regimen. For the long-term, I did increase my protein well over what it had been before and now focus on eating protein and veg and occasionally whole grains. I now try to hit 80g on most days and 80-120 on days I lift (add a shake and an egg generally). I have continued lifting and have basically maintained my weight. I haven’t had a body comp analysis in a year, but suspect I have converted a bit more muscle based on how clothes fit. My response to Covid has not been helpful for losing as I have been far less active outside of workouts, I drink more, and my sleep is all over the place. But I am not gaining.
IAlso, i have consistently read that the body can’t process more than about 35g of protein in a single meal. My life is not conducive to eating 5 or 6 times a day. I don’t want it to be.)
Anonymous
“My life is not conducive to eating 5 or 6 times a day. I don’t want it to be.”
I feel seen by this. For some reason it always bothers me when nutritionists write that we should all be eating 5-6 small meals a day. I just literally don’t want to be stuffing my face all the time! I get that it can be helpful for some, but I’m more utilitarian in my eating and I want to just get it over with.
Vicky Austin
Actually, I was just reading The Obesity Code by Jason Fung at the recommendation of somebody here, and he’s on your side – no 5 small meals nonsense. Check it out – it’s very interesting.
Anon
Same! I want to get into heavier lifting, but IF has been key to managing my reflux. I’m not going back to constantly cramming food down my throat.
Anonymous
I want to clarify my reference to “calorie restriction” above, since I know this can be an emotional issue for many. I mean that I brought my intake down to a healthful-for-me level from consistent overeating and modestly increased my activity until I was ready to start the lifting program.
Anonymous
I think the obvious solution here is also the best one. Try increasing to 80g and see if it makes a difference.
Anonymous
Advice for managing clients who create fake emergencies? The small clients seem to be particularly bad offenders. It’s as if they forget they have lawyers until the last minute. Example: I get an email at 3:30 (usually on a Friday) asking me to do a “quick review” of a document they want to get out the door before 5. They’ve known about it for weeks but this is the first I’m hearing about it. Meanwhile I’m in court or on calls or have other deadlines or I’ve never heard of this party so we haven’t run conflicts (and I don’t want to be one of those partners who burdens conflicts staff with constant fake emergencies, particularly not for a matter that will require 2-3 hours of work). More often than not, I can’t and don’t respond in time. I remind them I need more of a heads up and they sheepishly apologize but then keep doing the same thing. It’s really stressful. FWIW I’m a partner, and when I talk to other partners who work with these clients, they’re kind of like, shrug do your best. Is there anything else I can do here?
Cat
Some clients do this to try to get cheap legal advice — like, they know they only have $1000 to spend on whatever it is, so they want to make it so you only have an hour or two max to look at the issue. Then they get protection on the key/material issue-spotting for minimal $. I’d try to let those clients go…
OP
This might be true of a small minority of them. I don’t take the bait and I instruct my associates not to either. If we’re going to do the work then we’re going to do it right. I don’t think this problem is all that common, though; a good 99% of them are well meaning but clueless, so I do my best to educate them on what they’re actually paying for. Like no I don’t hit a button and spit out a form for you, you pay me the big bucks because you’re getting tailored and quality service.
Anonymous
Oddly enough, you exist to serve the client, not the other way around. In addition, impressing the client on a small project can lead to a larger project, but won’t unless you treat the client and each project as important and do a good job on the project. In addition, the small client on a growth path won’t forget the lawyers who helped them along the way. Finally, the lawyer for whom you drop the ball will end up at another bigger company and will never hire you. Put an associate and your admin on an email string that introduces them to the client so that if you are in court they can tell the client you are out, run conflicts, and so that the associate can do an initial review for you so you can turn an advise email quickly. And check your email before you leave court.
afdsa
Wow, rude.
Cat
Yeah this is lacking perspective. The OP is getting emails asking for 1-1.5 hour turnaround of substantive commentary on something totally out of the blue. That’s a bad client, not bad outside counsel.
Anon
She’s a partner in a law firm, not an intern.
Anon
This is not good advice for people with well established careers. Most executive coaches talk about drawing healthy boundaries, pushing back on things that drain your energy so you can focus on your highest value services, etc. I am assuming that OP already understands the value of good customer service, but needs advice on energy ‘vampires’.
OP
I hadn’t heard the phrase “energy vampire” before but I love it. See also clients who call me 3x/day for therapy sessions that don’t actually move the ball forward on their matter. Can you recommend any resources so I can read up on this?
Anon
I had one of those today that I declined because it’s not my usual area of law and I can’t competently turn it around as quickly as the client needs it. But I am literally so emotionally drained from the emergency back and forth (while I was on a conference call with another client) that I am taking a way longer than normal lunch to recharge. I might even lay down.
anon
You sound like a client I don’t want or need.
anon
This reads like one of those posts where people ask musicians to perform for “exposure” or graphic designers to design a website for free as a great “opportunity”. The customer/client is actually not always correct.
dfas
The only thing that I’ve found to work for this is to make them or someone they work with feel the pain they’re causing. If they never get any consequence (which they don’t if you just do the work) they will never change at all. I agree, have a secretary tell them you’re in court and can’t be reached. Tell them “routine document review requires at least 24 hours of week day notice” or whatever it is, and say youc an get back to them first thing Monday. That may well end up being okay, and they were just asking you because they think they can.
Say you can’t do a thorough job at this time so you’re not comfortable doing it.
Make deadlines and minimum notice time 10000% clear so its not a surprise when you can’t do something at 3:30 on a Friday
Of Counsel
Absolutely agree on drawing boundaries and explaining (1) that you are not always at your desk and available to work on a last minute “emergency” – fortunately even the most unreasonable usually understand court hearings and (2) that you cannot turn around something substantive that fast without risking giving them bad advice.
I am happy to drop everything for genuine emergencies (your metaphorical factory just exploded or a notice of default hit your desk, I will make it happen) but have no patience for clients who seem to think I do nothing but sit at my desk waiting for their calls/emails and can give them instantaneous advice without any research or consideration. I mean sometimes the answer really is that easy but very often it is not. And I am not interested in committing malpractice.
Anonymous
Transportation Q. My parents live in NJ. It’s too far to drive and in the past I have taken the train or flown to see them. I know that people are nervous about flying, but I think that there are bus / subway / regional rail commuters who get a ton of exposure in the course of a week (less, obvs, with mutual masking). A 2-hour plane ride (only 1 hour of which is flying, the rest is load/unload, wait to take off time) seems to be awfully less risky than any other mode of transport (possibly driving, but that would also entail stopping, possibly overnight). I know that in some cities the bulk of workers take transit and their daily exposure must be greater than one plane trip and yet I am not hearing about transit outbreaks (sure, many people are WFH, but a large set of jobs are done by in-person workers).
[Note: I’m not asking if I should go — they are transitioning into a single-story house and are old enough that we want eyes on them in case there is a fall and to make sure that we are all comfortable with independent living (e.g., no weirdness is found suggesting mental failing) and to accompany them to some medical appointments .]
Anon
A one-hour plane ride covers approximately 400 miles. That is definitely doable in one day of driving. Pack snacks and plan for one gas stop if you need it (my car gets close to 500 miles on a tank, YMMV literally).
Anonymous
Yeah a one hour flight isn’t that far? Like DC/Boston?
Anonymous
Sadly, I deal with miles-per-bladder. Car tank is sadly irrelevant.
Cat
I’m confused what your question is – whether it’s safe for your parents to take transit? I mean, the odds that anyone who actually did catch Covid due to the subway knows that’s the reason (here in the land of too much community spread for contact tracing) so… it’s possible but if everyone’s masked up (as is extremely likely in the NE corridor), then I wouldn’t worry. (I’ve been periodically using our subway and commuter rail throughout.)
Anon
i know of two people who likely got covid from flying (quarantined for 2 weeks prior to traveling, upon arrival only went to the home of where they were staying – the people they were visiting had also quarantined for 2 weeks – and these are people i know/trust did real quarantines). obviously there is no way to know 100%. that being said, i also know some people who’ve taken the kind of trains where you get your own car to yourself. if it was just me and i had to fly, maybe i would fly, but i have two young children so not flying any time soon
Ribena
What’s the train situation? I went a similar distance to see my parents at Christmas (I live alone and they are my nominated support bubble) and the train felt like it was much safer than flying, because the majority of it was on the inter-city line which is enforcing distance by only allowing pre booked passengers and making all the passengers be at least 6-7 ft apart – capacity can’t be much more than 10%, if that. Flying meanwhile would have involved being significantly closer to people.
anonshmanon
Yeah, I think it all depends. How cramped or busy is the airport at the time you would fly, does the airline pack their planes full or are passengers distanced (I am not flying anywhere, so have not kept up with any regulation on travel, maybe this is more even across airlines now). Some research indicates that the air replacement rate on the plane is very high (=good), but there can be a stuffy terminal and TSA queue that you have to consider, too. The TSA was forgotten as a recipient in the early vaccine allocation, I wonder if that has been fixed. This probably varies by state. Same for the train, how busy will it be , can you keep your distance? What would be the likely exposure to/from the airport/train station?
Anonymous
I’m not sure what the real question is, but I would take Amtrak over an airplane any day. There is way more space on trains than planes.
Anon
There is way less mask compliance, though, and more people moving around.
theguvnah
but, on amtrak doors are regularly opening and closing so there is much more air circulation.
Booties
I would rent a car and drive. No question.
My brother is regularly visiting my disabled father during the pandemic. He does a COVID test, then quarantines for 2 weeks, then picks up a rental car (contact free) and drives the 12 hours.
Stop once to pee? Bring gloves/hand sanitizer/good mask/face shield.
Or bring a bottle/female urinal? Or diaper ;)
Don’t drink so much?
anon
I’m a Texan so I would really never think twice about driving that. It’s basically dallas to Lubbock which is a drive I used to do a couple times a semester for weekends or even occasionally just an overnight, I’d do it with one stop both ways.
Anon
I’m a pretty low-fuss, unfancy person. For example, the water pressure in my apartment is pretty bad, so I keep a milk jug in the shower to help rinse out shampoo instead of standing there rinsing for five minutes. Similarly, my towels have discolored spots from a laundry incident, but they’re not worn out otherwise, so I haven’t replaced them. I could afford to get a nice shower head and new towels, but I’d rather spend the money (and time!) on things I actually care about, like fancy restaurants and nice gear for my outdoorsy hobbies. And not consuming new things when the old things are working fine for me feels like an easy way to be eco-friendly.
I recently mentioned a few of these things to a friend, and she was clearly bothered/uncomfortable. I know she’s not the only one—I’ve definitely sometimes felt like people are feeling sorry for me when they stay at my place, even though they know I’m successful in my career and content in my home. Obviously hosting people is less of a thing right now, but I’d like to be a good host and hospitable person in the future, and that involves not making people feel awkward or uncomfortable.
Are my economizing and hospitality priorities truly competing, or am I thinking through this wrong? If you’ve felt similarly, have you found a reasonable compromise between the two? If you’ve been the person who is uncomfortable staying with someone like me, can you explain what about my orientation toward housekeeping makes you feel uncomfortable and if there’s something other than upgrades I can do to mitigate that? And if your reaction is just that I’m super weird to feel this way, you can let me know that too!
Anonymous
With all due respect, there’s eco friendly for one’s self and gross to a visitor. There’s a really big disconnect between fancy restaurants and using a milk jug to rinse your hair. Putting in a shower head that gives a better spray with less pressure (or maybe just cleaning it) is an easy and inexpensive fix. Giving clean and clean looking towels is a basic expectation–perhaps you could have special things that you only use for guests/when they come over. If I was your friend I might worry that you doing fancy things a sign of you living beyond your means when I see the reality of your home life. If you’re stuck in your quirky ways then maybe it’s not for you to host those who are bothered.
Senior Attorney
Agree with this. These are small things and the total cost would probably be equal to one fancy restaurant meal.
Vicky Austin
A nice shower head is a one time expense and will not impede your hobbies all that much.
anonymous
Gently, yes, I think it’s very strange to not spend $30 on a showerhead and instead keep a used milk jug in the shower to rinse your hair. If you can afford nice gear and fancy restaurants, give up a couple cocktails with dinner and buy a real showerhead.
For the towels, as a guest, I would honestly be taken aback if I were offered towels that had strange stains or discoloration on them. I wouldn’t know where the stains came from and frankly, I would wonder about why you expected guests to use them. Maybe this is my WASP upbringing, but we always had guest towels that were kept separate and only brought out from the linen closet for them, so they were always in good condition. Maybe that could be a compromise for you if you have guests frequently enough?
I think there’s economizing and then there’s being cheap. Washing your hair with a milk jug and expecting guests to use gross towels is cheap. Economizing would be using a coupon on a new showerhead and guest towels at bed bath and beyond or Macy’s.
anon
^ agree with this. You don’t have to go out and replace all your towels. Just get a couple for guests. You can get room essentials bath towels at target for $4. Get two of those, a hand towel, a couple of washcloths, and a shower head, and you’ve spent less than the price of one meal at a fancy restaurant.
I would not recommend changing your values to pick up recurring expenses, but this is pretty much a one time thing for the showerhead, and and a once a decade thing for the towels, as long as you just use them for guests.
I am relatively eco friendly and can be cheap about some things, but there are things I do to make guests comfortable that I wouldn’t normally do. For example, my family normally uses squares of white flannel as handkerchiefs instead of using tissues. But when someone comes to visit, I put a box of kleenex in the guest room because I realize that not everyone is comfortable using something I’ve already blown my nose on a bunch of times.
Anon
Yes, hospitality is about what makes guests comfortable. It’s like offering coffee and tea even if you don’t drink either.
Anon
Definitely agree with guest towels and sheets. I do that because it’s impossible to keeps ours nice due to my husband’s psoriasis; he is constantly bleeding all over everything. I used stained stuff all the time because it would break my budget to replace it constantly, but it’s not expensive to put aside one set of guest-only items.
Anonymous
I think there is a difference between frugal/economical and cheap here. Using an old stained towel for yourself is frugal. Used a stained towel for guests is being cheap. There is room to provide inexpensive, nice towels for guests and still pursue your hobbies.
Jess
Or it’s frugal to choose sheets in colors that can be bleached and then spend the time to do so. It’s eco friendly to choose biodegradable materials.
anon
I am not far from you in orientation. Generally I think you do you, unless whatever it is will be a huge inconvenience to guests. And even then, you only have to care if guests are important to you. I think your guests should be able to take a shower without special accommodation (like your jug) but the discolored towels are fine unless they’re gross looking (white colored towels with like poop colored stains or something). It just really depends on what the individual choices you’re making are. If you can elaborate we can probably be more helpful.
I personally would not care as long as things are clean. But I think most people would and if hosting is important to you I’d make some adjustments. For what it’s worth, none of these are particularly expensive. I had water pressure problems that I tolerated for a long time and fixed by swapping out my showerhead for like $30. I also have 1 nice towel that I let guests use, and that wasn’t that expensive either. I also personally find that most people spend way too much money on things that aren’t worth it in my opinion, so some of this is definitely just different preferences.
Cat
You do you for your daily life (spoken from someone who cuts loose strings off her bath mat each week because the edging has disintegrated… hey it keeps the floor dry just fine and no one else sees it, so it lives on for now).
But this is not the same thing as being considerate (within your means, which you state you have) when hosting others. Would you stay at a motel that had a milk jug in the shower and stained towels? No? Then don’t ask the same of your friends.
Anon
I will say that a lot of otherwise nice hotels have truly dismal water pressure; it’s always a disappointment though.
Cat
ha, I feel the same way. When we’re choosing an Airbnb it’s actually something I look for in the comments – people going into detail about shower quality. Occasionally I hit the jackpot with someone equally concerned that paid it forward!
Anonymous
I know a lawyer who, when staying in a hotel for weeks for trial, will bring his own wrench to take the showerhead off and remove the water restrictor (which, incidentally, OP, is a very easy way to get better water pressure. Showerheads made after some date are required to have them for water-saving purposes. They are very easy to remove)
anon
agree that I use stained towels, but when I expect a guest, I reserve the towels that aren’t stained (or frayed). Don’t agree that I need to offer my guests the same amineties as a hotel. I am not paid $100/night to host them. They chose to stay with me. But, yeah, give them the intact towel.
Anonymous
I feel you. I can’t believe people throw away perfectly good sheets and underwear if they have a little breakthrough bleeding. You can wash it, it’s clean, what’s the problem? But I also wouldn’t give stained sheets to guests. Being a good host includes giving people clean-looking linens.
Vicky Austin
This reminds me of Hank Green’s take on cleaning up pee in public restrooms: “It’s YOUR pee, and if you don’t clean it up, someone else will and they will be cleaning up SOMEONE ELSE’S PEE!”
(Clearly he was not a parent at the time, but among adults, he’s right.)
Go for it
Well, I’d def have the building replace the shower head bc it would make me twitch ~long hair~ and resolve the pressure issue as well.
As to incident towels….hmm I replace them, relegating incident ones to housekeeping chores. Nice towels make me feel cared for. Incident towels make me feel sadness. Grew up poor, so no replacements at all of “still serviceable” items.
There are a number of ways I practice environmentally focused frugality, cook probably 28 days out of the month, Low key cable subscription, old car, kind of old-school use it up wear it out in most areas; however, not deprivation mindset.
Senior Attorney
Love your term: “incident towels.”
Mrs. Jones
+1 so much
Anonymous
I think if you’re hosting people you should have decent towels and a shower that works normally. Idk how to explain to you why this matters when you are clearly hostile to the idea. But if people you host are complaining, just fix it. It isn’t hard or expensive.
Anon
+1
Part of being a grownup is taking care of your things and being a good host.
Anon
You’re right that your way is more eco-friendly. But there are people who will just see you as deprived. They may also be actually nervous to touch towels that are discolored, even it’s somewhat obviously from bleach or from another garment that was not colorfast. I was taught to keep new linens for guests so that they never have to wonder.
There’s a limit to how much you can do. I have friends who are genuinely uncomfortable in old houses or apartments that weren’t recently built, because they’re perceived as dirty or tainted in some way. They also are perplexed by where I choose to vacation (think hostels and a Eurostar in Europe vs. an all inclusive somewhere warm and sunny). They throw out all leftovers and are horrified that I’m willing to eat yesterday’s food. Sometimes it’s just different backgrounds and values. I think it can help to frame your choices as positive: people may still roll their eyes, but if you really own your values and choices, people who actually like you can start to see it less as being a poor person or a “loser” or dirty and more as being kind of hippie or “taking it a bit far” with environmentalism, like a personal quirk?
People are openly pitying me for sheltering in a small apartment right now. I feel a bit sorry for myself too, since living downtown isn’t much compensation when I can’t go anywhere. But I’m also grateful for the position I’m in financially right now, though this isn’t something I can say. It’s nice to say that your friend deserves better, so it’s easy to sort of give people a hard time for not having nice things, but there’s no nice way to push in the other direction.
anon
I am someone who enjoys nice things and all inclusive vacations but who are these people who don’t eat leftovers? I think I travel in a pretty snooty circle and legitimately have never come across this.
Anon
Maybe there’s a more complex reckoning than just no leftovers period (I don’t think anyone would throw out the cheese left on the cheese plate), but I’ve definitely witnessed people toss what for me would be the next day’s meal, or assume that I’m going to toss the leftovers at my place. “I would just throw that out.” Maybe some people actually have sensitive stomachs to histamines or something–or their parents did and they were raised this way? I am not sure!
anon
Ah is it food that has been left out? I do not keep food that has been out more than about 1.5 hours per health recommendations and having gotten some nasty bugs. I often don’t take leftovers from restaurants when I went to restaurants for this reason. By the time it gets to my fridge it has probably been out for 3-4 hours and that’s definitely bacterial breeding ground territory. If I’m going straight home though I will take them.
Anon
There’s a reason takeout containers used to be called Doggy bags. It was literally for your dog.
Anon
I don’t have a dog though? Not sure who this was directed at
Anonymous
I would buy a set of guest towels and put them out when you have guests (guests don’t want to use stained towels) and take the milk jug out of the shower when you have guests. Your guest can deal with low water pressure.
Are there other examples?
I have fairly threadbare towels that I 100% don’t mind using, but I wouldn’t put out for a guest.
Anonymous
+1 for guest towels and guest milk jug removal.
And maybe do a check to see if your shower head needs to be cleaned (gunk in the filtered), descaled or similar. Low water pressure could just be a simple maintenance issue, which it would make sense to fix, from an economical point of view.
I think that as a guest I might find your style a little bleak, but there are lots of other things that matter more in terms of hospitality. Conversation, a cup of tea, clean floors etc. I would be more bothered with a sad piece of shrivelled soap in the bathroom than a towel with laundry stains.
There’s nothing wrong with using things up, but also nothing wrong with keeping somethings “for best”. There is a difference between items seemingly well-kept and cared for, and items that are absolutely fine but visually unappealing, and it’s probably easier on your guests if they see the first ones. I applaud the using-things-up mentality, though, and think you would have gotten along very well with my grandma, who was very frugal (and had guest towels).
Anonymous
You can buy a nice shower head for $50 and some fabric dye to fix your towels for $10, so yeah I think you’re in the wrong here. Those fixes can be done for very little money and take less than an evening of your time.
Anonymous
I had a water pressure issue with my shower. I replaced the shower head and took out the flow restricter (YouTube has easy to follow videos) and it made a world of difference. My showers are shower now because it takes less time to rinse my thick hair.
pugsnbourbon
If I stayed over, I would feel like you were trying to make a point about frugality and I was missing it. I think you need to make a small outlay if you want to be a good host.
BeenThatGuy
I’m a neat freak and keep my home extremely clean and tidy (it brings me lots of joy, seriously). That said, I do not expect people to keep their homes in the way that I do. But there is a basic level of hospitality that is expected when you are invited into someone’s home. Especially when it comes to the bathroom! Clean looking and clean smelling towels should be a given. As with a clean toilet, access to toilet paper, a non-overflowing trash can, a clean sink with soap, etc. I’ll sit on “your” cat hair covered couch and eat from “your” stained dishes, but if the bathroom is unsanitary, I’m going to be very uncomfortable.
Senior Attorney
Also, the issue is not who’s right or wrong or weird or not. You know your guests are uncomfortable and you can continue to let them be uncomfortable, you can sit them down and explain to them why they’re wrong for feeling how they feel (although — really? just, no!), or you can take a few small steps to make them comfortable in your home. I feel like that’s kind of a no-brainer, but you do you.
Vicky Austin
Ooh, this is a great frame.
Anon
All about keeping the old towels, but you can get a shower head $40. Replace your shower head.
I’m both frugal and try to be eco friendly but I also thorough believe that life is short and should be enjoyed.
Anon at 1:08
Clarifying – don’t give a guest a stained towel. Even if you go to target and buy two $10 towels that you set aside and only use for guests.
I personally prefer using Turkish towels, but many people don’t. So, I use Turkish towels for myself but keep two traditional towels for guests (lol, guests)
So my two main takeaways are yes it’s great to be frugal/eco friendly but don’t restrict yourself too much – life is short and meant to be enjoyed AND don’t force these preferences on your guests
Anon
I have a friend who is sort of like you. She thinks she’s unfussy and unfancy. I think she’s slovenly. I don’t go over to her house any more and I would never eat something from her kitchen.
If ALL your friends are telling you this isn’t ok, then your “unfancy” lifestyle probably goes beyond a broken shower and stained towels.
Anon
It sounds like you’re saying your friend’s place is actually unclean (“I would never eat something from her kitchen”).
To me that’s something else entirely. Some of the farming families where I grew up would keep using towels even when they had holes in them, but the holes were probably partly due to all the bleach they were cleaned with. They kept things CLEAN. I think there are a lot of cultures where intense cleanliness and “never throwing anything away that still kind of works” coincide, so I would really hesitate to associate janky showerheads and discolored towels with filth or slovenliness.
And if your friend’s place is actually a wreck, I doubt she’s as sanguine about it as you make it sound.
Anon
What I’m saying is that OP’s story likely goes beyond a shower head and stained towels, especially if all her friends are saying these things.
My friend has bugs in her kitchen that she won’t deal with other than by encouraging spiders to take up residence in her kitchen (I am not making this up) so when she offered to make some baked goods for a gathering I hosted, this is the first thing I thought of and I declined.
Anonymous
I’ve joined a group and they’ve sent out a thing with my contact information on it–not cool so I asked them to not and they agreed. Now it’s happened a second time and the person who did it is denying so there’s a bit of back and forth. It’s given me a bad taste and I’m thinking of backing out even though otherwise everything about this group is fantastic and I love being a part of it. I don’t really know the person who did it but they seemed okay but you don’t really know a person’s character until there are bumps. What would you do? Suck it up? What if there isn’t an apology? Quit? Something else?
Monday
Wait how could they deny it? If your contact info is on something they sent out, how can they claim they didn’t do that? It sounds like outright bad faith, but maybe I missed something.
Anonymous
This, Monday, is what I’m trying to figure out.
Anon
It’s the denial that they did anything wrong that would make me leave the group, not the clerical error.
Anonymous
It depends on whether you are willing to forgive people for human foibles or if it is more important to you to take a stand that you have made it clear that, for reasons, your email and phone number are super extra secret and that was supposed to be top of their mind because you said it should.
af
She asked them 2x not to put her information on the listserv or whatever it is. What’s the big deal in making sure its not there?
Anonymous
It’s not a big deal. The OP is looking for support for bringing drama. I, for one, will not offer it.
Vicky Austin
No, the drama occurred when they violated her wishes a second time and are pretending it’s not a big deal. OP is not causing the drama.
Anonymous
It’s a very bid deal for some people. DH and I both have legal obligations to keep our contact information very private. If someone sent out my information I would lose it.
Anon
Found the person who sent out personal information twice at 11:58.
Anonymous
I have been waiting for this tired trope all day, Anon at 1:49. But no, I just don’t live to make others’ mistakes the basis for elevating my own self worth.
Anonymous
Also, the first time wasn’t a mistake. It was SOP and the trigger for the FIRST request to the org.
Anonymous
She asked them once. Now she’s reminded them of that request. No one ignored her twice or did anything intentional here.
Annony
What is wrong with you?
Anon
Not wanting personal information on a listserv is a perfectly valid thing. What if Anon is a DV survivor who had to change their phone number or email? Or a public figure?
Sure, you’d hope that the info would be kept among the listserv members, but I know that my own email + phone number from an email I sent out as the president of a law school group to the listserv for that group is now online because of the “can’t see this in your email? go to the web browser here” function.
A friend of mine was in an abusive relationship in law school with another law student. She joined a section of our state bar association and made very clear that her personal information should not be shared, just her work info. She had changed it to prevent him from contacting her repeatedly. The listserv sent out an email with the personal contact info of all of the leaders of the listserv to the whole section, including her ex who had joined it and she had to change her phone/email again because he immediately began contacting her again- 3.5 years after we graduated.
Anonymous
That sounds awful. The OP came to ask if she should forgive and forget a clerical error in order to stay affiliated with a group she enjoys or whether to make this a character issue about a fellow member and elevate it to the point of declaring her resignation bc the org’s secretary or whatever, who is probably now fearful of what repercussions OP will bring, made the mistake. I would advise her to err on the side of forgiveness, remind the org of her request, and constructively suggest how they can keep.contact info in a fashion that provides for a “Do Not Publish” flag for members with special needs like hers, whatever the reason for those needs (which do not need to be shared or rise to the level of DV victimhood to be respected). Others might support the more dramatic alternative, which involves cutting off her nose to spite her face.
Anonyez
Clearly these people cannot be trusted to take your request seriously, so set that issue aside.
Are you getting something you need from this group that you can’t get elsewhere? If so, get a Google voice number and a throw-away e-mail address to use for this sort of thing. If they aren’t adding real value, drop out, and give their “lack of privacy respect” as feedback that they will hopefully use in the future.
anon
Question- I have celiac disease. My doctor ordered a vitamin D test as part of a panel for recurrent pregnancy loss. My insurance denied it as “not medically necessary.” However, my insurance booklet says that vitamin D testing IS considered medically necessary for patients with celiac disease. Does my doctor really need to resubmit the lab order and specifically say that it’s because I have celiac disease?
Anonymous
This is not a question this board can answer for you. You need to call your doctor’s office.
Anon
Yes, it’s possible that your doctor’s office didn’t use the right code for Celiac and that this is a simple fix.
Anonymous
Um, yes?
anon
Just wanted to make sure I’m not asking my doctor to commit insurance fraud, though honestly I don’t actually care. I hope when people in your real life ask you questions that you think are silly, you are a little nicer.
Anon
Insurance companies refuse to cover things all the time and then you have to go back to them. It’s very common and it’s not insurance fraud (???).
Anon
+1
Anonymous
How is it insurance fraud if you have the condition in question? Sorry if my response seemed rude; I wasn’t sure if I was missing something, as *of course* the doctor should give the insurance company enough information to make the right payment call.
anon
Because the blood test was done for recurrent pregnancy loss, not for my celiac disease. Insurance covers it for celiac disease. I was just wondering that since I happen to have a covered condition, if that “counts” as medical necessity even though that’s not the reason the test was done.
Anon
Insurance companies fight paying for stuff when and because they can. That’s just how it is. I might guess that a lot people were having their vitamin D levels checked for COVID reasons so vitamin D tests are being flagged as suspicious, because of course the insurance company doesn’t want to pay for more than usual. I know some people really had to defend their reasons for Plaquenil after the hydroxychloroquine fiasco.
It’s not fraud to try again with another billing code if you have more than one reason to run the same test. Or I hope it isn’t, because my doctors do this all the time! It’s not cheating because Celiac isn’t the real reason you care; it’s perfectly normal to monitor D levels with Celiac.
I’m sorry you’re having to investigate this and hope you find answers and treatment. Best wishes.
Anon
Ouch. I’m sorry for your recurrent pregnancy losses and vicariously offended on your behalf that people are being so snippy with you about this.
Insurance companies wrongly deny stuff all the time. Ask your doctor to work harder to get it approved. Usually they have to call in and have a peer to peer discussion (with a doctor or a nurse who works for the insurer) and in my experience it usually gets approved after that. Good luck!
A
A Canadian here so things might be different but our doctor ordered blood tests which included vitamin D and our universal awesome (mostly free) healthcare coverage did not cover it. Cost $40
Anon
Looking for a recommendation for a service that does personal style consultations. I am not in need of buying new clothes, but I’m looking for someone who can teach me some style principles based on my specific body type as well as what colors look best. Hoping for something that is virtual so that location doesnt matter. Thank you!
Go for it
Take the books out of the library by Brenda Kinsel – in the dressing room with Brenda is an oldie but goodie.
Donnyandbuster
I like Jennifer from your everyday style-https://youreverydaystyle.com/.
Went to a styling session with her and she taught me about my body type and where to get a bra. She also sends emails and created capsule wardrobes.
Anon
DC Style Factory is only doing virtual consultations these days. Real clothes, real people, not a one-size-not literally-fits-all approach.
Annonnn
Two critical questions: 1) How do you avoid deodorant build up on your clothes? I swear I wash after 2-3 uses and still end up with crusty armpits on clothes. 2) Is there a way to get rid of the build up? It doesn’t seem to come out in the regular wash, so what am I doing wrong? I really don’t wear excessive deodorant! And this has happened no matter the brand I use. Help!
Anonymous
1. Apply deodorant at night instead of in the morning. It’s supposedly more effective that way, and then it mostly gets on your PJs instead of your clothes.
2. Wear your bathrobe for a few minutes after applying deodorant so it can dry before you get dressed.
3. Use less deodorant.
Jess
I think vinegar might be able to help dissolve some of the build up. You can also try running the pits under warm water and scrubbing that area. Also, that’s why I like my clear gel deodorant.
Anon
Wear deodorant without antiperspirant? I do that anyway because weirdly antiperspirant makes me sweat way more, but a nice side effect is it’s much easier on clothing.
Anonymous
I use white vinegar (regular 7 %, because that what I have) directly on the stain before it goes in the washing machine.
I’ve done this on cotton tops and wool sports tees, but would be careful with very fragile fabrics.
It’s not to do with the amount of deodorant you use, I think it’s a reaction between sweat and salts from your deodorant.
Anon
I’m curious if anyone has read Untamed by Glennon Doyle. I’m in a book club group on Facebook (it’s not one where everyone reads the same book at the same time, but there are posts about whatever people are reading) and this book routinely gets ripped apart. I have not read it yet, but it was on my TBR list. I suspect that the political leanings around here align a bit closer to my own than the book club ones do, so I’m wondering what you all thought about it if you’ve read it.
Anon
I listened to it on audio, and I really enjoyed it. The criticisms I’ve seen say that it is elitist, oversimplified, and that Doyle is trying too hard to prove she is woke, etc. One of the recurring criticisms I see is that “doing these things aren’t really possible for all women.” I am not really sure what people are expecting from the book, though? It’s marketed as a memoir – it isn’t a self-help book. And yes, of course, not everyone can easily just shrug off societal expectations, and I don’t think Doyle does either. She clearly has struggled a lot, has had eating disorders and substance abuse disorders and was in an unfaithful marriage before falling in love with a woman. But I still think that calling out those expectations and recognizing them for what they are is valuable, even if everyone can’t just upend their lives over it. I thought it was interesting, and the prologue (about the cheetah) really sets the tone for what you can expect from the book. Be warned though, there are A LOT of metaphors in the book — too many, in my opinion, but I would recommend reading it.
Lilau
Ahh the book that destroyed my book club!
Yeah, it lead to a lot of trump supporters to proclaim they weren’t racists and then say racist things. ( Literally the words “I wouldn’t want to live in a neighborhood with Black people, how does that make me racist ?” were uttered.)
I guess the book was fine. The takes on racism and feminism weren’t particularly interesting or enlightening to me as someone who already thinks about those things. I understand Doyle’s work is important in the family/queer recovery space but this is all I’ve read of her’s and it wasn’t particularly compelling.
Anon
Oh, the “I’m not racist, but” people. Aren’t they a joy? At least you know who they are now and can cut them out of your life.
My aunt is “not racist” but doesn’t want black people in her church.
anon
I was so-so on it. The first part of the book is a series of related short essays. I enjoyed that format. There were a couple of really beautiful chapters that made my cry my eyes out. Then she gets into a more step by step “how I got my life on track” section later in the book. That said, the whole point of the book is basically “follow your heart and be true to yourself rather than being held down by societal expectations , even if it means upending your entire life”. That message hits different people different ways, understandably. I’m a very pragmatic person so some of it really made me roll my eyes.
anon
I enjoyed it and thought it was easily her best book. It is very raw, but she owns her screwups and past and I found that very refreshing. I liked it better than her uber-religious stuff. She is definitely a privileged person in many ways; however, that didn’t detract from my enjoyment of the book. I don’t see her as being woke for the sake of being woke — she does seem to walk the walk.
anon
I’m about 60% through it, and my reaction so far is that I find her writing style a bit annoying and verbose, but if that doesn’t bother you too much, there are some good nuggets of inspiration/wisdom. At points, it reads to me like a series of those script-font inspirational quotes that people post on social media (e.g., “What will you choose to do with your one, wild life?” etc.). Some chapters are essentially a short set-up anecdote, followed by a pages-long monologue she supposedly rattled off to the supporting character in the anecdote. (Sounds like you need to be a good listener to be friends with her! haha) The autobiographical parts about her past are interesting. Overall I like her message so far, but have to force myself to push through the writing style. I’ll finish it but it’s not a life-changer for me.
Anon
How soon after a baby did your gardening life go back to normal? My husband complained this morning that my lack of enthusiasm is making him feel completely unwanted and unloved. I obviously don’t want him to feel this way, but I’m having a hard time moving past my irritation at having this dumped at my feet to actually get make him feel better.
For context, baby is 5 months old, not sleeping through the night, I’ve been back at work full time for a month, and we have a 3 year old. I did two rounds of ivf to get pregnant, had a rough delivery with a third degree tear, and am still bfeeding. We’ve gardened maybe 10 times since the baby and in fairness I’m doing it mostly to appease him as I don’t totally feel back to normal or really have any feelings of desire.
I’m annoyed that he seems oblivious to all the physical and hormonal changes I’m going through on top of the adjustment back to work and everything. Part of me wants to introduce him to his right hand and tell him to leave me alone, but he’s not normally a self absorbed person and I do want him to feel loved.
Any anecdotes about this adjustment or advice would be very appreciated.
MWK
Normal? Honestly, we never went back to our pre-child routines, both because they did not work with small children and because, by the time we no longer had small children, we were ten years older. Around 6 months when I stopped br**stfeeding exclusively, it got markedly better. I was still exhausted but less than before and felt like my undercarriage had fully healed.
And this may not be a popular opinion but I subscribe to the “always say yes unless the answer is really, really no” school of gardening. If I actively felt unwell then I would say no. If I am just tired or otherwise not feeling it, I fake it (not in the usual sense of faking it; but in the “I love you and I want to feel close to you and make you feel good” sense).
Please, please believe I understand where you are coming from and your feelings and maybe I am totally off, but I sense a smidge of resentment toward him in your post. I suggest you identify the root of that (is it just gardening?) and deal with it. Resentment, like contempt, is fatal for a marriage. Children are really hard on a marriage even when you are both on the same page.
Anon
The thing that irritates me about her description of the situation is that she IS going along with it, as you suggest (with a third degree tear!), but that’s not enough. She has to make him feel wanted.
It’s so hard when your kids are babies and everything needs something from mama all the time, and then dad joins the chorus.
OP tell your husband how you feel, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Tell him all of it. Don’t suffer in silence.
MWK
For clarity, I read your post as still b-feeding – not still bleeding as suggested by a poster below. If that tear is still bleeding you should absolutely not be engaging in vaginal intercourse and should also be talking to your doctor. Because that could be a major medical issue. Also, I am not suggesting vaginal intercourse if it is actively painful – but there are lots of ways to garden.
But yes – you do need to make him feel wanted. That is the whole reason his right hand is not going to do it. He does not just want physical pleasure; he wants to feel like you love him and are not 100% subsumed by baby.
Anonymous
Agreed. Intimacy is important. You can’t just eyeroll and tell him to get over himself.
Anon
Feeling “wanted” and feeling loved are two different things.
Anon
As your husband is feeling unwanted and unloved, try to increase intimacy in other ways. My DH and I do a lot of hugging, quick kisses, etc. through out the day. We say we love each other.
Intimacy ebbs and flows throughout healthy marriage, and the time period after you have a baby is a major ebb! I try to understand that while my body does a LOT during the pregnancy/birth/bfeeding corridor, my husband’s doesn’t. I would have a hard time dealing with such long periods without physical intimacy if I was married, but not going through all those physical changes. To be blunt, I give a lot of H jobs during that time period.
As for normalcy, we are done having kids, my husband got a vasectomy, and I’m done bfeeding. I have a normal body all to myself now! It’s great. My old libido is back in full force.
Anonymous
When I was at this stage, I told DH that he had to take on more of the parenting if he wanted me to have more energy for the wife stuff. He got up 50% of the nights (yes even when baby’s was EBF, he brought me baby, I nursed side lying while I was half asleep, he put baby back down), he got up 100% of the time with older kid if they needed anything (because I had to pump during day and he had no workday kid duties), and we each got to sleep until 11am on one weekend morning. He cooked half the supper meals and did all breakfasts so I had more time to do things like take a long hot shower in the morning. Self-care is key to me wanting to garden. Generally I was interested when not exhausted – like the night after my sleep in morning.
anon
10 times in 5 months, all while postpartum, sounds like you’re doing amazing. Your DH, kindly, needs to get over it.
Anonymous
This. We probably had ten times total during the first year. For reference we were three times a week usually before kids and are now back closer to that range a couple years later.
Anon
Yeah, that is more than I get 1.5 years pp. And my husband does 50%.
Anonymous
Have you been evaluated for depression? You sound overwhelmed. You say he’s not a self absorbed person but your description is sort of dripping with contempt for him – like how dare he have feelings. It also doesn’t sound like his complaint is only about sex – he’s telling you that you’re checked out and distant from him, which could also be a symptom of depression. I think you should tell him you’re not doing OK right now and you should talk to your doctor.
Op
Definitely not depressed and this complaint was very specifically about lack of gardening equaling being unloved. It was just shocking how many circumstances would have to be completely ignored to jump to that conclusion.
I’m exhausted at the end of the day and look forward to snuggling on the couch and going to bed an hour earlier that usual.
Anon
Wait, what? I have a 6 month old and am breastfeeding – everything downstairs is super dry, I’m not ovulating yet so my desire is almost nil, I’m sleep deprived, and I’m doing 90% of all non-breastfeeding child-care related things for baby and older kid, even though we both work f/t. Once it gets to 8 pm I’m ready to fall asleep while standing. Like most parents during the pandemic, I feel like I’m failing at parenting and working at the same time. I’m not depressed, but I am super exhausted. If my husband was guilt tripping me about being a bad wife on top of all of this, I’d punch him.
Anon
I am so mad at your husband right now. I encourage you to show him something like this in writing, with everything in your column including not sleeping and a third degree tear (I had one too, just ouch!) , and in his column “doesn’t feel wanted”. I hope it will seem as obviously ridiculous to him as it does to all of us.
Anecdotally, my husband probably felt the same, although smart enough not to say it. We faltered a little when the kids were really little, but my sex drive came roaring back once I was no longer breastfeeding, the kids were sleeping through the night, and I had a tubal ligation. (My husband had a failed vasectomy – it happens!)
I’m not going to deny that sex is a really, really important part of a marriage, but that doesn’t mean someone who is still bleeding from a third degree tear just needs to suck it up. Take care of yourself and know that this is extremely common and that I’m SPITTING MAD at your husband right now.
Anonymous
He needs to back off completely and support you during this phase in life.
anon
I have a 5 year old and an 18m old, after IVF too, and we’re just now averaging a woopping once a month… quite honestly, I wasn’t interested in the first year as I was bfeeding, and lately it’s been more him as he’s now getting up at night when the baby cries (teething is bad). We talked about it, he said he’s too tired, sometimes we’ll say something super sexy and romantic like ‘ they’re both asleep, should we do it?’ sometimes we both want, sometimes not, and if not, we try again a week later …. not sure if it’s normal or not, but we’re both in our 40s, and judging by the other answers, we’re not abnormal…
good luck!
Anonymous
This is a ‘how to handle at work’ question and not a medical question – I’m going to give a lot of medical background for context, but I’ve got a great MD, psychiatrist and psychologist helping me with this process and am coming to the Hive for help with the work issues. I’m in the process of tapering off of Cipralex (Lexapro in US I think – the drug is escitalopram) and am in my first week of zero. I was on 10mg for 2 years and went down very slowly to 5mg, where I lingered for 3 weeks until I stabilized, and now I’m down to 0. The withdrawal symptoms this week have been debilitating. I’ve got the whole gamut of withdrawal symptoms: dizzy with vertigo when I walk or move too fast, confusion, crying for no reason, increased anxiety, chills. I timed the taper so that I would start during the Holidays so that I wouldn’t have to work during the ‘worst’ of it, however, I’m now wondering if the worst of it is yet to come and whether I need to tell my work about this? I just started a new job in October and have been remote the whole time so I don’t actually know my co-workers or bosses yet. For the most part, I’ve been able to deal with the withdrawal and still meet deadlines, but this week I’ve been completely unable to work and I’ve had to move all of my calls to later in the week because I woke up feeling completely unable to even be on a call. I also can’t focus on work tasks and it’s difficult to read on a screen due to the spinning sensation. To complicate matters, I usually take vyvanse to work (I’m prescribed it for ADHD), but after today I realize that I can’t take it until this withdrawal is over, as it worsens all of the symptoms, so I’m not going to have that additional focus boost that I would regularly have. I’m not sure when I will be back to being able to work normally. I have a catch-up call with my two bosses tomorrow (which I moved from today without explanation), and I’m wondering if I should mention what I’m going through to them so that they will know the reason for me not seeming enthusiastic about my job/having to move deadlines/generally not performing if this gets worse. I’m not overly busy right now, so think I can ride this out and force myself to complete the few tasks I have due this week – it just won’t be the pace or quality of work that I would usually have. I’m typically very private about my personal life at work so it feels like TMI to tell them, but I’m also very worried that they will view this as performance issues if they aren’t in the know about the reason. It also seems very early having started a new job to raise something like this that is clearly going to affect my performance, and I absolutely need to keep this job (it was a life-saver in-house job that rescued me from Biglaw, which was the cause of needing to be on this medication in the first place). Should I ride out this week and then tell them? Never tell them? Tell them immediately? Any advice welcome (but please no medical advice regarding the taper, I’ve got that covered!). TIA
Anon
I would not explain the health conditions the way you did here. You can be “under the weather” for now.
Of Counsel
I would just tell them you are ill, confirm it is not Covid, and absolutely not mention the nature of the illness in question. If it goes on much longer and impacts your work to the extent you need an accommodation then check your employee handbook for how to handle that. In absolutely no circumstances would I suggest telling them the details of your illness.
And that would be my advice regardless of the nature of your illness but the stigma against psychiatric illnesses and against drug dependence (even prescription drugs) is very strong.
Anonymous
+1
AnonMPH
Caveat that I am not a clinician or your clinician but can you split the 5 mgs in half to bridge between 5mg and 0? The details were different but that’s what I had to do when I was tapering off cymbalta. The steps were too large otherwise (and the spinning issue was the same).
To your actual question, definitely tell them you need to take the rest of the week off and will use your sick days, apologize, confirm it’s not covid and then sign off.
Anonymous
This. I know OP said no advice about the taper but that is way way way faster than I came off the same medication. Think more like 6 weeks at 5mg. Then split pill for 2.5 mg for six weeks then 2.5mg every second day for 6 weeks then 2.5mg twice a week for three weeks then off.
Anonymous
If you cannot work, you need to take sick time!