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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Are you looking for a white blouse that’s anything but basic? This smocked neck top from Alice + Olivia has vegan leather sleeves that look much more sophisticated than I would have guessed, based on the description.
I would wear this with high-waisted denim for a chic look in a casual office or paired with my favorite blazer for a real power look.
The top is $375 at Neiman Marcus and comes in sizes XS–XL.
Hunting for other feminine blouses? General brands to look at include CeCe, 1.State, and Sézanne (very affordable!), as well as L'Agence, Rebecca Taylor, Ted Baker, Club Monaco, Alice & Olivia, ASTR the Label, and Anne Fontaine.
Sales of note for 10.24.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Friends of Ann Event, 30% off! Suits are included in the 30% off!
- Banana Republic Factory – 40-60% off everything, and redeem Stylecash!
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – Friends & Family event, 30% off sitewide.
- J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Up to 30% off on new arrivals
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 40% off entire purchase, plus free shipping no minimum
- White House Black Market – Buy more, save more; buy 3+ get an extra 50% off
AnonMom
The style is gorgeous, but could do without the polyurethane sleeves and the stain on the photo without the model…
Anon
I had to click through – omg who was in charge of art that day?
Anon.
Polyurethane sleeves, what were they thinking?
Aside from the environmental impact, sounds like a pain to clean and wouldn’t look good for long.
Anon
Huh, I didn’t see that. I love this pick. I wouldn’t personally style it all buttoned up. I’m going to sale stalk this one – Alice and Olivia is one of my favorite brands.
Cat
I don’t know about this one for office wear. There may be days where I wish I could go Full Bellatrix on some choice colleagues but I try to be more subtle about it ;)
Anon
This made me laugh!
Emma
Anyone want to help me shop for a wedding + rehearsal dinner on the cost of Spain in July? About me: size 6-8, recently had a baby so prefer nothing too tight at the waist. Dress code says formal (no black). For the rehearsal, I have a long, silky yellow pleated skirt with a cute print, and was thinking that plus silk tank and sandals? But I definitely need inspiration for the wedding itself. Any sources for fancy Mediterranean outfits?
Ribena
Is it an American destination wedding in Spain or will most of the guests be local (or something else)? If the goal is to be at a similar level of formality to all the other guests then that may be something to bear in mind.
It will probably be VERY hot so also key to find out how much is outside/ if the venue is air conditioned.
Emma
The bride is Spanish and the groom is American so it’s half/half! I’m definitely concerned about the heat, they don’t specify if it’s outdoors or indoors but it’s being held at a fancy hotel so I assume I’ll have access to AC at some point.
Cb
Ooh can you look at the hotel location tag on instagram to give you some inspo? I’d go floaty – some sort of layered linen or raw silk?
Emma
Good idea! Yeah silky/airy is definitely the vibe I’m looking for, just trying to steer clear of the linen sack look so I can be formal enough.
Vicky Austin
No advice for you, but I love the sound of that skirt!
Emma
I bought it because it was pretty, but it’s actually been surprisingly versatile. I can be worn with a cotton T-shirt and flat sandals for brunch or a casual summer date night, and dresses up nicely with a crisp top and heels.
Anon.
Me too! It sounds beautiful!
Anonymous
I need better friebds
Anon
Seriously!
Coach Laura
It’s funny – whenever someone posts about having/going to a destination wedding, half of us are OMG so excited and half grumble that making your friends go to a destination wedding four hours away from an airport outside the US is torture. I’m of the group that would want a destination wedding, I’d love to go this wedding this summer. But back when my kids were little, San Francisco was far enough away for a destination wedding.
Anonymous
I was inclined to write a grumbling comment until I saw that the bride is actually Spanish, which makes the location “home” for her and thus totally understandable.
Anon
The jealous/excited reactions seem to come out when people mention weddings in Europe, specifically Spain, Italy and France. Most destination weddings are in Mexico and the Caribbean, so I think it’s not necessarily that 50% of people love destination weddings and 50% hate them, but more that a lot of people like destination weddings in places that appeal to them and people get more excited about weddings in Europe, which are rarer. Also I think a lot of people view destination weddings differently when one member of the couple is from the destination. It still involves travel but at least there’s a reason and not just a random “we want to get married here.” But as you said it also depends on what life stage you’re in and how many weddings you’re getting invited to. I’m 38 and haven’t been invited to a wedding in years, I would be thrilled to go pretty much anywhere for a wedding at this point. But when I was in the 5 weddings a year stage of life I just wanted wedding travel to involve as little money and time off work as possible, because we were stretched so thin attending so many.
NYCer
I have found nice summer event dresses by Oliphant, PatBO, and Agua by Agua Bendita. They all can bit hit or miss, but worth checking out. Otherwise, Tuckernuck often has a nice selection of party dresses. And I like browsing My Theresa for higher end options.
Emma
Thanks! I’ve never heard of any of these so I will definitely check them out!
joan wilder
Cara Cara is another brand to look at for this theme (though its spendy). I think Tuckernuck carries some Oliphant dresses. Also Ro’s Garden.
Clementine
I would look for a bias cut silk dress – preferably halter. I think that for a setting like this, you want either a less formal cut (slip dress, bias cut dress) in a more formal fabric (silk, chiffon) or you want a more formal cut (princess cut gown, elaborate neckline) in a less formal fabric (linen).
I personally would wear this in dusty blue: https://www.anthropologie.com/shop/bhldn-ruby-twist-halter-satin-gown?color=048&size=8&utm_kxconfid=vx6rlxuie&gclid=CjwKCAiAu5agBhBzEiwAdiR5tKOXYQ100SCu8VRcbve490XtLfPx56PKqDcowJyJ2rYcInF-MZcVAhoCn5wQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&type=STANDARD&quantity=1
Emma
Oh, that’s beautiful!
Clementine
Comment with link in mod, but
I would look for a bias cut silk dress – preferably halter. I think that for a setting like this, you want either a less formal cut (slip dress, bias cut dress) in a more formal fabric (silk, chiffon) or you want a more formal cut (princess cut gown, elaborate neckline) in a less formal fabric (linen).
anon.
I’d look up Cara Cara depending on your budget. I have nowhere to wear a Cara Cara dress but this sounds like THE occasion to buy one!
Anon
Hive, I need some outside perspective on a friendship issue. I apologize, this is long.
DH and I are friends with another couple, Mark and Jane. Mark was in medical school with DH. At the time, we were close – maybe met up for dinner once a month or so? I became friendly with Jane too. DH is now a doctor, whereas Mark chose a longer specialty and two years ago, they moved to another city so Mark could continue his residency there. Jane was pregnant at the time and became a SAHM in their new city, but continues to be listed as a substitute teacher with the school board in our city.
We haven’t seen Mark since they moved, since he is apparently really busy at the hospital. Jane has come back to our city a few times to see her family and has come by to say hello. We exchange friendly messages on social media, but they aren’t super close friends at this point. In the meantime, we bought a house which happens to have a guest suite (large room and bathroom, but the kitchen area doesn’t have a fridge or stove yet). We also have a 5 month old baby who doesn’t go to daycare (I’m still on parental leave). Jane is 5 months pregnant with their second child.
Two weeks ago, we each got a frantic message from both Jane and Mark. Apparently Jane has agreed to sub in our city for six weeks starting last week (exact end date TBD, I guess another teacher had a medical issue). She had a place to stay for the first week through a friend, but would need a place to stay for the rest of her stay and cannot afford an Airbnb. She apparently cannot stay with her parents because her father is undergoing chemotherapy treatments. So they asked if she could stay with us in our guest room. I admit we were a little caught off guard by this, but didn’t want to leave a pregnant woman with a sick father and her toddler to fend for themselves, so we said yes. Their toddler, Jake, is with her and attending the daycare run by the school board while she teaches. She was supposed to come over this weekend.
On Friday, we got a message saying that Jake is sick and was in the ER with a fever and cough. It sounds like an ear infection, he is on antibiotics. We asked if she could stay in a hotel for a few days until Jake is solidly fever free. She is freaking out and feels like we are backing out on our agreement and hotels are too expensive. I think Jake is also having trouble adjusting to daycare and she won’t be able to sub while Jake is sick, so the whole thing isn’t going too well. We are holding firm in asking her to wait until Jake has been fever free for 48 hours. She can then stay with us but if Jake is sick we ask that they stay in the guest suite area. She can access our kitchen with a mask as needed.
We are feeling a little thrown by the whole experience. We are realizing that Jake attending daycare for the first time means he is likely to pick up all kinds of illnesses and are kind of worried about them sharing a space with our baby, in addition to the loss of privacy. Jane seems really anxious about everything and we’re exhausted managing her constant messages and she isn’t even here yet. We probably should have said no in the first place but felt kind of backed into a corner. We wish they had discussed this with us before agreeing to sub and booking a flight out. Is there a different way we should be handling this?
Anon
Honestly I would wonder if their marriage is lasting. Substitute teaching doesn’t pay quite well enough to justify being in another city, and it’s not like it’s such an amazing career move that it justifies the hassle.
So I would remain firm on the fever feee issue – you can’t have your own kid getting sick. If she pushes back, remind her that this was a favour for her. “You’re backing out of the agreement” is what people say when the “agreement” was incredibly one sided.
Anon
I agree that there probably is something bigger going on here. Jane was pretty clear that moving to a new city wasn’t her first choice – she liked her life here. But she also new the deal with Mark from the start. I think she is bored and lonely in the new city and wanted her old life back, but of course it’s more complicated than that now. I want to be a good friend to her but also feel like she is putting a lot of this on us all of a sudden. She did tell me that she will end up not making any money from teaching with the flights, daycare and hotel stay, and I believe her but am not sure how that’s my fault. So I’m torn between wanting to be a good friend but also feeling like this is a very big ask.
Caution
+1 seems like you have a lot of regret and now trying to reel back in any way possible. and honestly, I don’t blame you.
I say that because reading your description of events/communications sounds chaotic. If I read this on a subreddit somewhere I could see this spiraling and suddenly Jane lives with you, with her two kids, Mark is MIA, asking for money, asking you to watch her kid because you’re on leave, and you’re trying to figure out how to evict her. (worst case scenario I know)
They put a LOT of ask on you guys as once-a-month graduate school friends. I would tread VERY carefully with this whole scenario, which apparently is 6 wks minimum without an end date?
Anonymous
+1. This scenario is full of red flags.
Anon
+2 can’t see Jane or her kid because the many, many red flags are in the way
Clementine
If I were to guess, Jane was having a hard time and the solution was to go stay with her parents and take this sub job. Being pregnant with a toddler and a spouse who works long hours in a city that’s not ‘home’ is hard.
Well, now everything seems to be falling apart. This isn’t on you, I suspect it’s just a big life stressor and seems like the ‘great plan’ is not working at all. I’d just be really friendly and apologetic but hold your boundaries. Blame the pediatrician.
HFB
wow! i kind of can’t believe they even asked you for that; guest suite or not, suddenly staying with a friend for 5+ weeks – especially one who has an infant!- is a HUGE ask. did she have other plans that fell through at the last minute?
anyway, she asked and you said yes. i think the 48 hour request is very reasonable. personally, in your shoes, i don’t know if i would feel comfortable withdrawing the offer to let them stay at this point… but i also do think it would be outrageous if you did. maybe say they can stay for a week or so while they sort out other labs? i do think her kid is going to get sick constantly, being rely in daycare, and that’s a real risk for your little one.
Anon
I’m not sure if they had other plans that fell through, but we did feel like the ask was very last minute. To be clear, we don’t plan on withdrawing the offer, but we did ask for 48 hours fever free. I’m deferring to DH on this since he’s the medical professional, but I can’t tell if he is being extra firm because he feels a little taken advantage of (I think this stings more for him because Mark barely kept in touch, and they were the ones who were friends to begin with, whereas I’ve been in touch with Jane more).
Anon
Would you be okay if she could just stay in the guest suite and out of the rest of the house? Since it sounds like your intention is for the guest suite to have these things eventually, are you able to get a mini fridge and microwave for the guest suite asap? If she’d be okay just staying away from the baby as long as the toddler was sick, that’s probably what I would have done.
Anon
This is what I would have done as well. Also while I agree this was a big ask on Jane’s part (especially for someone who’s no longer a close friend), you did say yes and I think you’re overreacting about the sickness a bit. Every kid gets sick a ton when they start daycare or school. Your kid will get sick now or later. In some ways, it’s advantageous to get some illness out of the way now while you’re on parental leave and 5 months is old enough that your kid is out of the fragile newborn stage where every fever necessitates an ER trip.
Anon
Yeah that’s fair I guess. We could probably get a microwave (or even lend her ours, we don’t use it a ton and could do without for a few weeks). I’m not a huge fan of the mini-fridge idea because we eventually will get a regular fridge for this space, but maybe we can find a cheap one on marketplace and make it work just for now.
Anonymous
I’m guessing that the OP’s house has enough space to keep the guest area and the 5 month old separate, so I do agree with this. At 5 months babies barely need to leave the nursery!
I think the whole thing is a lot; you agreed to let two people move into your home. You should make a plan for when Jake gets sick again- who will watch him?
Anon
5 months old is still really young in “immune maturation” terms!
Anon
Actually, in my experience it’s not as much difference as you’d think. In my friend group, we have kids who started daycare/preschool everywhere from 12 weeks to 4 years and the experiences have been surprisingly similar regardless of age – constant illness for about a year, frequent illness for another year or so after that, and then it gets a lot better. To me the bright lines are at 3 months (when low grade fevers no longer require an ER visit) and after about 1-2 years in group childcare, when immune systems are developed enough that kids no longer catch everything they’re exposed to.
Anon
I agree. Making them stay at a hotel was way overkill. You were super nice to let them stay with you, but there is no reason they can’t isolate at your place. You have the space.
NYCer
+1. This seems like the best solution, given that you already said okay to her staying with you. (Which was extremely nice by the way.) I realize you have a small baby, but I think you are overreacting a bit re her toddler’s fever. It is not like her sick toddler would be hanging out with your baby all day — chances are the sick kid would just be hanging in the guest suite.
Also, are you going to ask her to leave and go to a hotel if her kid gets sick again? If the answer is yes, I definitely think you should be upfront about it with her now.
Anon
No, we are asking her to keep Jake contained in the guest suite if sick, and she can use our kitchen as need be with mask + hand washing.
NYCer
So if you are not planning to ask her to leave if Jake gets sick another time, why are you mandating 48 hours fever free now with the current illness? Just let her come stay with you and keep Jake contained in the guest suite.
Anon
+1 to NYCer. This doesn’t seem very logical to me.
Anon
+2 to NYCer.
You can also ask her to wear a mask when she comes into the house, and to minimize that for now.
I’m sorry OP. This whole situation is a downer. Kuddos to you for trying to make it work.
I do understand your friend’s position. She and her husband are probably struggling on a resident’s salary right now. Pregnant non-working mom + infant + resident = financial disaster. You don’t have a lot of choice where you do your residency because part of the “match” process is a bit… random. They were poor planners, as wife needs to be working during these years or have more family support or put off having kids a few years or take out loans. That’s what you have to do. My guess is wife initially thought the $$ from doing this gig could help, and may also be desperate to not have a huge gap on her resume so she keeps the sub-teaching going (kinda smart, actually).
I wouldn’t presume their marriage is on the rocks. This can be the stress of having a family on a very modest income with a spouse that chose to stay at home and while the bread winner is a resident working very long hours (and it sounds like he is a surgical resident probably since the length of the residency is much longer). But they will be very well off $$ in the long run, so the pain will even out…. the non-resident spouse hopes.
Many people marry doctors in training… especially surgeons in training… thinking the career and long term financial stability will make it worth it and they can handle the years where their spouse is confined to the hospital. Well, normal doctors make a lot less than you think after having spent a decade in training, spending money and taking loans and needing to pay it all back. And the surgeons, which do make bank, spend even longer in training and still have a very demanding schedule ongoing (and often love that!). There is a reason that neurosurgeons have a divorce rate > 100%. Some of my friends married to surgical residents couldn’t handle it, the one who had her kids during his residency was the one who strayed.
Anon
How does any group have a divorce rate above 100%?
Anon
Anon is right that they are clearly feeling the stress of living on a resident’s salary only, plus having kids, plus Mark working insane hours and never being there while she is stuck in a city that has an outstanding hospital but not much else going on with no support network. I think whatever money she makes teaching will be swallowed up by costs of travel etc. I get what she is trying to do and I totally understand, but do think she should have planned better.
Anon
Residents don’t get paid that badly, especially since they don’t have to make student loan payments right now. It’s a lot less then they will eventually make, but many families live on that salary for their whole lives.
Anon
You can have >100% divorce rate by being married/divorced more than once. It made me laugh when I read that.
Resident salaries are not great salaries, as I suspect you know – especially when you are working crazy hours and en route to a family of 4. I suspect almost no one on this board, for example, is living in their salary range with their level of No Help from one spouse.
Many cities where the good hospitals are expensive to live in safe/convenient areas, and you need to live close to them to be able to get to the hospital ASAP. They may need to have 2 cars because of their choice to have children, and husband needs a car if he has to cover multiple hospitals (very common – almost every residency has a county hospital and a VA hospital you cover, for example) or might get called in on a random night/overnight. Not everyone is delaying their loan payments (there are arguments pro/con) and you have no idea what their expenses are, how much their health care expenses are with 2 kids (and resident health insurance plans can be expensive with high deductibles) etc…. It is a brutal time.
As I said before… this is why most people delay having kids until after residency, unless they are wealthy/didn’t have to pay for medical school (parent’s paid!) or have family that can help with childcare etc… It is what it is!
Anonymous
Multiple lifetime divorces
Anonymous
Medical residents make approximately $60,000 per year. However, they often don’t have a choice to live in a more affordable area because they have to live within a certain distance of the hospitals where they are on call. In addition, they often work long and unusual hours which makes childcare hard to find and pay for. While some residencies have housing stipends, most don’t, and even one of the most generous housing stipends is at UCSF and is $13,000 in San Francisco.
Anon
+1 this is what I would do.
Anon
Your friend needs help. What would you do if your baby’s older brother had an ear infection? I don’t think you’d send him to a hotel with a relative. Help her.
Anon
I personally wouldn’t kick Jane out, but I think this is a disingenuous analogy. It’s obviously not the same as kicking your own kid (or even a close relative) out of the house.
Anon
The minimal risk to the baby is the same. OP is not being a good friend.
Anon
TBH, I think OP should just revoke the offer now. She’s obviously not comfortable with her decision and it would be best if she tells her now, rather than a few weeks in.
Anon
Yeah, are you going to ask them to go to a hotel every time the kid gets sick? If so, you need to tell her now because I imagine that would affect her plans. If you don’t plan to ask them to leave every time he gets sick, I’m not sure why you’re making them stay in a hotel now, when he’s on the back end of an illness and likely not contagious.
Anon
I don’t think she should revoke unless she intends to end the friendship forever. It will take some getting used to having the friend and kid in the guest suite, but I think a lot of this hesitancy is anticipatory anxiety. The friend and kid aren’t even there yet. OP made a commitment to help out a friend and should follow through unless something bad actually happens.
Anon
She accepted a substitute teaching position in a city where she doesn’t live or have solid, reliable accommodations while pregnant? She’s asking an old friend if she can live there for 5 weeks with her toddler after you just gave birth to your first? This is insane. This is the type of thing you reluctantly ask your sibling to help with because you’re financially struggling and desperately need the substitute job. This is not the type of this you ask an old friend under these conditions. This is definitely a tough spot but I wouldn’t be friends with them after this. Honestly, I’m sure others will disagree (as they always do on this site) if possible, I’d suggest splitting the cost of an Airbnb with her. Otherwise you may get stuck helping her with her toddler, making extra meals etc. I would not want to take that on with a newborn. That is just insane all around.
Anonymous
What will Jane do if Jake is sick on a day she needs to work?
I echo the comment above that Jane (and maybe Jane/Mark) are not doing well.
Is Jane already in town staying with the first friend/family?
Anon
Yes, she is already in town. She is staying with a friend but friend is now back from vacation and has a one bedroom so it’s not a possibility long term. When they messaged us, it was a Tuesday and she already had a flight booked out to come out on Saturday. I think her initial plan was to get an Airbnb but it’s a popular time to visit here and Airbnbs ended up not being in her budget.
Anon
Unless you’re pregnant too, I think it’s a little OTT to kick her out until the kid is 48 hours fever free. Kid’s got an ear infection, you’re probably not going to get sick from that.
Anon
Yeah, ear infections aren’t contagious. The underlying colds/viruses that cause them are, but generally by the time the child is needing antibiotics for the ear infection, the cold that caused it is no longer in the contagious stage. In this case, 48 hours fever free is really excessive (I think it’s excessive in general, most daycares only require 24 hours, but in this case where the infection isn’t even contagious it’s really overkill).
joan wilder
I read her post as Jake is sick enough to necessitate the ER and they think (but have not yet confirmed) it is “just” an ear infection, so I would also be that cautious in her shoes given the unknowns.
Anon
Or they had to go to the ER because it’s the only place that’s open once the teacher got off work. Even urgent cares in my area close by early evening. If he can’t see his regular doctor because he’s out of town, the threshold for sending a little kid to the ER is pretty low. It doesn’t mean that he’s necessarily horribly sick.
Anon
+1 to Anon at 11:19. I read it as they went to the ER (likely because they don’t have a ped in town) and the diagnosis was ear infection treated with antibiotics.
Anonymous
Say no now. “Sorry this won’t work for us.” It won’t. This friendship is going to end either way. If she can’t afford housing then she can’t afford to take this job.
Also you’re kinda idiots sorry. You can’t agree to have a kid live with you but only if they aren’t sick. Kids get sick all the time.
Anon
Yes, I realize we definitely didn’t handle this in a good way. We were caught off guard and felt pressured by the urgency and panic in their messages and definitely didn’t take time to thing through what this means. We’re new at this parenting thing, but definitely would handle this differently in the future.
anon
This is uncalled for. But I do think OP reacted too quickly to a frantic request without thinking it through. If Jake is in daycare and mom works at a school illnesses will happen. There will be dozens of other inconveniences that pop up over six weeks.
OP is finally realizing what a huge deal this request is, and OP is subconsciously latching onto the hotel thing as a way to claw back control. Either she needs to accept that these guests will throw her life into disarray or back out now. FWIW Jane’s plan was a disaster from the beginning and I can picture her at week 5 begging to extend the stay. This sounds like it will only get messier.
Anonymous
+1000
Anon
I understand why she’s freaking out, because this may not even be the last time during these five weeks that her toddler gets sick. If you’re this uncomfortable with an ear infection (which probably isn’t even contagious), how are you feeling about ultra-contagious viruses that transmit before patients develop symptoms these days? If your goal is to keep your baby from catching infections from your guests, you need a plan that has hopes of achieving that (stay in the guest area, wear masks in the kitchen, run a HEPA filter). Her kid’s illness isn’t exactly a surprise because it’s presumably the entire reason she couldn’t stay with her dad. I guess it feels like you didn’t think this through when you said yes.
Liza
I think COVID has honestly made people a little nuts about transmitting illnesses. I agree with others that asking her to keep to their guest suite and not come close to the rest of the family should more than suffice as a reasonable precaution to keep the rest of you healthy. Especially since you don’t even know if what they have is contagious. They can eat takeout or just go into the kitchen to get/prepare food while you aren’t in there.
Whether you want this person staying with you under these conditions at all is a valid question and totally your call, but separate from the sick-kid issue. If you’ve decided you don’t, I’d give them a week to figure something else out (since you probably would have agreed to a week if it was limited to that time period right?) but say that you’ve had to reconsider.
Anon
Yes. It makes sense because COVID is the most contagious high prevalence disease we’ve experienced, it’s possible to get it repeatedly, and it is looking as though it increases susceptibility to subsequent infectious disease as well. So if we want to not be sick all the darn time, we can’t live like it’s 2019. But precautions should also make sense.
Doodles
I think making her go to the hotel is overkill and unnecessary. Your friend is struggling. She’s alone with a toddler, pregnant, husband works long hours, lives in a new city, father with chemo, committed to a sub job for whatever reasons (financial? personal? who knows). You agreed to let her stay and never told her that you would be kicking her out any time she or her son had an illness. Giving that both are in a school environment, that may be quiet often. Hotel every time would be disruptive and expensive. Backing out now is certainly an option but you should expect that it would end this friendship.
I would have them stay primarily in the guest suite. Buy a mini fridge and microwave. It sounds like you only have one child so maybe the reaction stems from being a new mom (I get it!) But if you had an older sibling to the 5 month old, you’d recognize that kids just get sick. It’s inevitable at any age. You would not have an option to send an older sibling to a hotel. Your baby is not a newborn anymore and you didn’t mention any underlying health issues with the baby. Have everyone be masked around the baby and have her and her son primarily in their suite until he’s better. Repeat every time toddler or her get sick. Use the time otherwise to reconnect with your friend and offer her some support. She can also offer you support as a first time mom. Maternity leave can be really isolating so maybe this is even a blessing in disguise for you.
Anon
+1
This is definitely the kind response.
But OP, I don’t blame you for ANYTHING you posted here. I would have handled it almost the same(!). Felt uncomfortable… but agreed… regretted it…. panicked a bit when her baby got sick and I thought for the first time what I was REALLY getting myself into… thought about backing out…. etc…
But honestly – I think it is going to be ok. You are a good friend. Hang in there. Get online, order a microwave and minifridge for delivery from COSTCO and be done with it. Good luck.
Doodles
I’ll add that before you buy a mini fridge and microwave, consider posting on your local Buy Nothing group. You may have someone willing to lend you either for that period. Happens often in my local group that new moms borrow the minifridges.
Curious
+1
Anon
FYI, I had a friend crash with me for two weeks (was supposed to be two nights and then she wouldn’t leave) and it ruined our friendship.
Anon
Thanks for all the insight. I hear you that we might be overreacting on the ear infection thing. We are a little paranoid as first time parents and heard “baby in the ER” but I realize an ear infection probably isn’t that contagious. DH is a doctor but not that kind of doctor and I think he is overreacting a little for other reasons too.I will reach out today and make arrangements so she can stay in the guest suite area as soon as possible. There definitely are bigger things going on with Mark and Jane and DH will need to have a talk about how we handle this kind of thing is the future, but we did say yes and she is a friend and I don’t want her to be in a bad situation. Thanks for the outside perspective, the communication has been a little chaotic and I’ve been caught up and stressed about it which might be clouding my judgement.
Anonymous
Well said, OP. Sending you good vibes for a smooth visit– you rock for doing this for your friend.
Anon
+1
Well done.
I would leave a bottle and masks in her room, and in the kitchen :)
I hope your friendship with her will grow during this bonding experience.
Anon
bottle of hand sanitizier….
although I’m sure she could use a bottle of wine! :)
Anon
And at least they’ll be gone all day!
Anon
Good luck, this is just going to be a crappy situation for you. I can’t imagine being in a state to have to share my house when I had a 5 month old.
Curious
Five months in you may just be starting to sleep? It’s so hard, and you’re very kind. Best of luck to you.
Separate Entrance
In addition to masks and a mini-fridge, I would put HEPA filters (however many are indicated for the cubic space of the suite) in the guest suite and run them full time.
Anon
She decided to accept a job in another city. It is her responsibility to ensure she has a place to stay – regardless of costs.
She should not be shifting her emergency due to lack of sound career planning to you.
You were a wonderful friend to offer your place for 5 weeks.
Hard no on a sick kid near your toddler. That would create risk for you guys being able to work.
I wouldn’t care what they think – you were not close, they took advantage with the emergency (who takes a job when they don’t have accommodation in the new city?), not your problem to solve.
I would reply that you are not backing off on anything, they are welcome for 5w provided kiddo is fever-free for 48hrs to protect your kiddo’s health.
Anon.
I agree.
Keeping your baby healthy is important, I just can’t be as casual as some of the other posters here about health.
If Jane is already panicking and requiring a lot of messaging then it does sound like perhaps her marriage is breaking down. It would be nice to support her with a place to stay but it’s also ok to chat to your husband and then decide to withdraw the offer. Or say she can stay for a week but needs to make other arrangements for the remaining weeks.
You do need to make plans (if she stays) for what you’ll do if she asks you to babysit; what you’ll do if the toddler gets sick again; meal arrangements; where you’ll draw the line if she asks to stay longer; if she wants to borrow your car etc.
I’d back out, because I’d just want to enjoy a peaceful maternity leave but you might be a better person than me.
Negotiating boundaries
It’s ok to realize you committed to too much and back out. I don’t think that makes you a bad person. Frankly it was a huge ask on her part. It is worth exploring what compelled you to say yes in the first place though. Even when someone is desperate for help, we still need to check in with ourselves about our capacity, willingness, and scope before making commitments.
Anonymous
I bet she took the sub job in home town ( which makes no sense on the surface) with the option it would lead to a permanent job if the teacher who is out decides to stay out. This could be a precursor to a move back to home town without husband. Point being, I would worry you are getting in the middle of something here that won’ t cleanly resolve in 5 weeks. No one would blame you for backing out. Just say it’s not going to work and be done with her forever. Hang up – no discussion. It was wrong for her to ask (pressure) you in the first place, You are not family or even close friends. Don’t let her guilt you into thinking it was more of a relationship than it was. You owe her nothing.
Anon
harsh…
Anonymous
I think that unfortunately you agreed to 5 weeks so now you have to hunker down and do it. If they are sick make them stay in their wing. To be kind, these people sound like a mess. To be less kind, they sound like users. Manipulative and demanding. She probably kept you in the back-burner friend wise purely to have the option of a place to stay. You are useful to keep in touch with. My sister has friends all over just for this purpose. After this I would be done with them.
anon
I think you’re spot on with this observation. See the commitment through, but there are all sorts of red flags with this couple.
JD
I mean… her parent has chemo. Jane may be hitting the wall on what she can handle emotionally and her capacity for fair thinking.
Separate Entrance
From a COVID and other health perspective, you have a child who is too young to be vaccinated (you may have other vulnerable people in the house, too) and she has a toddler with an active infection and a continuing exposure to everything (daycare).
If you can arrange your guest area so that it is entirely self-contained (separate entrance, no need to come into your kitchen/laundry/bath), then it is safe for her to stay there. Otherwise, that is a lot of health risk for you to accept. COVID is worse in people (your baby) who are not vaccinated and long COVID is more likely in people (your baby) who are not vaccinated.
Anon
I’m way more cautious about Covid than most people I know (still masking in public), but this seems excessive to me. The child does not currently have Covid. Presumably if they went to an ER, the doctors did a full panel for Covid, flu and RSV and they were all negative or OP would have mentioned it. The odds that the kid brings home Covid in the next couple of weeks are very small. My kid has been in daycare for 2.5 years of the pandemic, with no masks for almost a year and has brought home about seventy bajillion colds but has never had Covid (we test frequently). Most people I know who caught Covid from kids in daycare/school got it during a massive outbreak like the Dec 2021-January 2022 Omicron surge. There’s no massive surge like that happening now. Moreover while I am pro-vaccine in everyone, including young kids, and my preschooler was vaccinated for Covid as soon as she was eligible, long Covid is not a serious risk in babies. There are other viruses like RSV that are actually more dangerous for 5 months olds.
Tina
What are your favorite parts of a typical day?
I just realized I don’t really love a lot of what I do day to day. Work is boring, and I was trying to subscribe to the mindset of “it’s just work, work to live” but it’s such a big part of the day. I like the activities I do at the gym but it’s still a slog. I’m not dating/married and of course I like it whenever I’m with my friends, but that doesn’t happen every day.
I have executive functioning issues too, but I was thinking that part of the reason I have a hard time getting going is that I really don’t want to! I was on a trip that was logistically much more complicated than my daily life but much fewer issues there.
Cb
I’ve got a really limited attention span, and I like doing things where I need to be wholly focused – doing expert commentary on radio and television, riding my bike, swimming with my kid. Otherwise I get bored and wander off.
I like when I’m solving a problem with colleagues, working productively in a team. Which makes me wholly unsuited for my academic career which is largely independent… But sometimes I have similar moments when I’m teaching and my class is really engaged in the material and showing enthusiasm.
Tina
Oh we’re the exact same. I need things that take up my whole attention. Writing code, swimming, jigsaw or crossword puzzles. I actually really like meetings, which I know is not a common statement.
Anonymous
Ugh same honey. I hate my day to day job and I just procrastinate because I hate it.
anon
My dog. She is consistent delight. She takes effort, but I find caring for her to be grounding. (I don’t have kids, and to be fair she’s a relatively easy dog – no behavioral issues.) She is not phased by opposing counsel’s BS or worried about laundry. In fact, she’d rather it be on the floor so she can sleep on it. Her playfulness/silliness is a big mood boost. It’s hard to stay bothered or feel blah due to the day’s little frustrations when she’s around.
Also, treating my executive functioning issues (late diagnosed ADHD, yay) has been really helpful to make everything feel less irritating/overwhelming and give me some space for things that bring more joy.
Coach Laura
Aww, this is sweet. My dog is my rock. Husband died on New Years, dog and I are alone. I retired suddenly so I don’t have the daily routine with work as before. Caring for her is grounding – well put. She is great company – long walks every day or twice a day, and I take her with me a lot in the car as long as it’s not too hot or too cold. Mine was a rescue/adoption after a failed adoption, so she has some issues that take work but she is so loving. And barks like crazy if someone comes near the house so I feel less isolated.
Anonymous
I’m sorry about your husband. Agree wholeheartedly on the dog. I had a very full day ending with a call with someone on my team who will not stop talking and is a bit of a bully to her team. I can’t terminate her yet. By the end of the call, I’m sure my blood pressure was way too high.
And then I took my sweet pooch for a walk and we played with his toys while I got dinner ready and — wow — what a difference. He brings more joy per pound than anyone I know!
Sunshine
For ordinary days like work days, my favorite parts are:
1. A hard cardio workout. Weights are good for me, but cardio is my happy place.
2. My first cup of coffee. Even when I’m in a rush, I take 30 seconds to savor the first few sips. I love coffee taste, smell, mouth feel.
3. Checking something big off of my work or personal to do list. This isn’t possible every day, but I like the feeling of accomplishment when I can. I’m also the type of person who will put small tasks on my to-do list so that I can check them off and look back at my day and see what I got done.
4. A meaningful social interaction. Sometimes this with a friend, a coworker, my spouse, or (most frequently right now) my parents. Sometimes it’s via text. And othertimes it’s via email or phone/video call. I also can’t do this every single day, but I try to.
I really believe that life is made up of the small moments. The big moments like trips and parties are great, but they aren’t the day in day out. So I try to be present and mindful of the small things that seem ordinary but that also bring joy. Reading today about the woman’s magenta skirt would count. RIght now the flowers are blooming in my city and I’m enjoying driving and walking by them.
Anon
what stage of life are you in? I’m single, late 20s, big city and while most of my friends are much more introverted than I am, I still see a friend most days – I just have to rotate who I ask to hang out. Is that feasible?
I have realized that I love a challenge and while doing the challenging activity is sometimes a slog, I love the feeling of accomplishment from it and I do NOT get that from my job. So, I do a lot of races: trail runs, half marathons, triathlons, 10 milers. I don’t love training for them, but I love that I am training for something, and I love competing in them. I realized after a few years that a long, hard, outdoor workout brings me so much joy. The best way for me to spend a weekend morning is on a trail biking, hiking, or running. Could you change up what you’re doing at the gym? Find something to train for? Sign up for new classes or a rec league?
I am also an activity person and I love trying new activities: bar quizzo, an art class, something to gain a new skill, book club.It doesn’t have to be something official, I also love finding live music or a special event at a brewery.
Bottom line is I just need to be active and engaged. I am not someone who has any interest in coming home and spending my evening on the couch (though that happens more often than I’d prefer).
Anon
and lest I come off as I’m always active, I forgot to mention how much I love my morning routine. I take 30ish minutes every morning before the gym to enjoy my coffee (on the patio in the summer, on the couch in the winter) and read, scroll my phone, practice Duolingo, swipe Hinge. It’s lovely
Tina
Same stage in life. I think I thought I needed some downtime too, it takes me a long time to do dumb things like house chores but I need to be doing those too. I have been doing new activities and thats fantastic. Love book club. I used to go somewhere every day after work and maybe I should do that again. Just to like a bookstore or a new neighborhood, but never at home.
Anon
My favorite part of the day is the first sip of coffee. I generally get coffee out, at the half way point of my early morning walk, and the walk with coffee and a true crime podcast is really my favorite time of day.
anonshmanon
I like having my first cup of coffee in bed, texting with my sister or a friend, well prepared meetings where sh*t gets done, playing around with budgets, helping colleagues find answers, walking home from the bus if I go into the office that day, logging off work and starting dinner, cuddling on the couch, reading in bed until I get tired.
Anon
I usually pack a snack that I look forward to during the work day and take a 10 minute break, scroll my phone, and enjoy the snack. It’s usually laughing cow cheese and crackers but today I have pretzels and Coke which is a favorite combination of mine from childhood that I almost never have these days.
Ribena
Honestly, now, the first 45 minutes or so of the day, where I sit in bed with the radio playing classical music, and I’m writing my 500 words for the day. It’s a really nice way to start the day.
And then reading too, usually at the end of the day. I just started the first Spindle Cove book and there was a line about unbiddable and excessively educated spinsters which made me laugh out loud.
Coach Laura
Ribena, are you writing a book?
Anon
This is a great thread! Like others, I love the first hour after I get out of bed. I make myself a fancy coffee beverage, read, and try to entertain my destructive cat, lol. Also: listening to a podcast, audiobook, or fun playlist during the workday. Find a podcast that’s released weekly and look forward to the day it comes out! Noon yoga. Having a fun dinner to make. Lining up a TV show/movie to watch with my husband so I’m not just scrolling. Texting a friend about something silly.
Anon
My work goes in a monthly cycle so it can get kinda repetitive and I just have to slog through it. I dont hate it, but theres parts I find boring or annoying each month.
Those typical days I look forward to the time to space out and day dream during my commute, taking 40 minutes or an hour to get outside around lunch time to walk, getting through the weekly wednesday afternoon call as its the signal that the week is half over, ticking off my to do list on the team work tracker. Answering or helping team members with questions or issues.
Clementine
A few of my favorite parts of my day – my morning coffee. Very much a ritual, to the point where my kids drink ‘coffee’ (really milk with a literal drop of coffee) and we listen to music while looking out the window and chilling.
My workouts. I like to plan what I’m going to do and think about my route for running or my Peloton class or how I’m going to train for a race.
Planning future fun things. My mother calls it ‘things to look forward to with joyful anticipation’. For me, half the fun of a trip is planning it. Half the fun of making a meal is planning it. Last Friday night, spouse and I went on a date and I realized that planning the adventure had made it even more joyful.
Anon
I love your morning ritual with your kids.
What a simple way to do a little “mindfull” meditation with your kids and teach them the pleasure in simple things, shared with loved ones.
Vicky Austin
As Johnny Cash said, happiness is “this morning, with her, having coffee.”
Anon
Tea and breakfast and a puzzle in the morning. My getting ready routine can be fun for me. I wear makeup – though not like tik tok makeup, I strive for a natural look which actually takes a bit of time to apply correctly, which I enjoy. Then I also like picking out my outfit, which has become more joyous once I got strict about what was in my closet.
During the day I do take breaks to read this place. I like my work ok but there are certain tasks I haaaate so I kind of bribe myself to do them – like once you finish this thing, you can take a break.
I like a Diet Coke midday and look forward to it, and if I’m eating lunch I try not to eat at my desk.
I’ve been working late recently so I haven’t been cooking an evening meal, but when I do, that can be the demarcation line between work and home and a welcome transition.
Anon
Going anon because I promised my spouse I wouldn’t talk to our friends about, but I could really use a third party perspective.
We had a rough patch last two year. Addiction, mental health, an emotional affair. We had a come to Jesus conversation in the fall, for the last couple of months things have been good. I was working on forgiving, building back together.
I found out he has hired some professional, male, specialist gardeners this time last year. He lied about it when I asked this weekend.
Is this it? I feel so lost. I don’t know if this is something I can forgive or get over. Especially lying about it now, after we’ve been doing so much work.
No kids, no financial dependencies. 15 years together. WWYD?
Clementine
This is personal, but for me, the lying is a bigger issue than the behavior itself. I think people often look at ‘forgiveness’ as complete absolution of the sh itty things they did; however, it happened and it was real.
If this were me, I would book a solo vacation and look at moving to a separate living space. For me, this would be a sign that I needed to fully evaluate if this is somebody I wanted to stay in partnership with. The recent lying – after the issues you were working through – is what would get me. How can you rebuild if there are still holes in the foundation that you don’t know about?
anonshmanon
Also making OP promise not to talk about the issues with anyone is not cool. Not gossiping about your relationship in general is one thing, but cutting her off from her network during a difficult time is a red flag and if he’s the one lying or cheating, I don’t see that he gets to make such demands in the first place.
Vicky Austin
An extremely good point. I’m sorry for the pain you’re in, OP.
Anon
Huge red flag. This guy is a serial liar and manipulative AF.
Anon
Leave. You deserve better. It sounds like he isn’t forthcoming and you can’t trust him, which in my experience means it’s over.
anon
I think it’s time to end this relationship especially since you don’t have kids or financial dependencies. You deserve better.
Anon
Get two professional things done:
1. Hire a divorce lawyer, and
2. Get tested for infections.
Anne-on
Not to go all scorched earth, but in this case I would likely ask around for the best high-conflict divorce attorney just in case.
Anon
Just in case? He’s lying about adultery even after they worked on rebuilding. It’s done.
Anon
I think she meant “just in case he goes scorched earth in the divorce” not “just in case you leave him.”
Anne-on
This – I’d normally hope you’d be able to go with a collaborative lawyer or mediation but with the lying/hiding behavior/substance abuse I wouldn’t be shocked if he relapses or goes off the rails and becomes adversarial during the divorce process. I’d also document all financial balances NOW and make sure you have access to your own funds/credit cards he can’t access.
Cb
But also, talk to your friends. He doesn’t get to decide who you lean on for support, when he’s made such crap life choices. So what if they don’t like him anymore, he did a BAD thing.
Anon
Agreed. Part of the consequence of doing something really bad is… looking really bad to the people who know. You deserve support and should lean on them!
Anon OP
Ya that’s a good point. I think it was that if we get back together, he didn’t want their perspectives of him ruined or to lose that friendship, so I agreed while I’m trying to figure out whether that’s something I want to try.
anon
Well, of course he’s thinking that way, but that doesn’t mean it’s good for you.
Anon
Sorry, but no. He did a $hitty thing and has to suffer the consequences!
Anon
@1:38 he did a BUNCH of shitty things!!
Anonymous
@1:50 excellent point! Buh byeeee
Vicky Austin
yeah nope – Cb is right. If he didn’t want them to see him as a liar and a cheater, he shouldn’t have lied or cheated.
Anne-on
I’d leave. The lying would be the last straw for me. Also – I’d go get a full STD panel, I simply wouldn’t trust him to be honest about whether this was the only time/if he used protection/etc. and you don’t want to take chances with your health.
Anon
Leave him, no question.
Anon
No kids or financial dependencies, GTFO ASAP. First I’d make an appt with a doctor. I think STIs need a certain amount of time before they show up in test results. Second, hire the best family law attorney around. Third, get your financial ducks in a row. Change all of your direct deposit info, beneficiary designations, etc. This is an absolute no brainer for me. Mental health issues, depression, addiction, all things I could attempt to work through. Cheating with a male professional and risking my health and life, there are no words.
Anon
Also, sounds like you know the “right” thing to do here and you just need the final push from third party neutrals like a group of strangers. The writings on the wall here. And get yourself a therapist.
Anon
I’d leave, you may be in the sunk cost fallacy zone because you’ve been together a long time. But you’ve got a lot more time to go. I would set up a separate bank account and lawyer up. The STI stuff is a little pearl clutching, IMHO, I’d personally deal with getting out first and not make everything high conflict stressful.
Anon
Getting an STI panel immediately is not pearl clutching or high conflict. She doesn’t even have to tell him, but she needs to get tested ASAP. He cheated, with men (statistically higher risk) and we have no idea if he used protection.
Anon
Yeah, it’s a lot to add to someone’s plate who is probably about to go through a high conflict divorce. It’s actually a lot harder to get an STI than you’d think and I would deprioritize it.
Anonymous
It’s one doctors appointment
Anon
It’s actually not. Ask me how I know!!!
Anon
Maybe Anon had a special situation, but I’ve gotten STI panels before, and it is just one appointment. I did it at my annual with my gyn.
I think the OP should decide for herself what to do, but just stating that it wasn’t difficult for me to have this done.
Anon
Pearl clutching?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4517560/
Anne-on
Really? If your partner was cheating on you at the same time they were using substances (which typically means riskier behavior choices) you wouldn’t immediately get tested or tell your friend to get tested? Even if you think it’s overkill there is literally no downside risk of an STI panel.
anon
No, if your spouse cheated physically and you haven’t otherwise had an STI panel, you need to get one. That’s not pearl-clutching at all! That’s just being sensible.
Anon
Agreed! Mine cheated and didn’t even lie about it, and getting an STI panel made me feel better and more in control. I think it is a good idea. Along with leaving him.
Cat
Ok I don’t think anyone is saying “ignore the STI risk nbd” – just that in order of relative priority, testing for STIs is something that could wait a few weeks as compared to other stuff!
OP, I’m sorry, the physical affairs are bad enough but the lying would do it for me. I’d leave.
Anonymous
Just get the divorce my goodness! He’s an addict cheating on you with gay prostitutes.
ArenKay
Adding to the chorus; this is it.
Emma
I’m sorry this happened, but I would leave. I spent ten years with someone who lied and I tried to give him grace because of mental health but it got worse and worse. The lying and the cheating are both issues. It doesn’t matter what their gender is. You deserve better.
Anonymous
I am coming at this from a place of deep compassion. DH and I have been together for nearly 17 years, have young kids, and over the past few years have had some really rough patches. Our rough patches were a bit different– but on similar themes. We had to really hit rock bottom before things got better, and for the past year and a half, we have a much more open and honest relationship. I do still think there are some things that DH is hiding, but I am also aware that some things I feel are being “hidden” are things DH feels are none of my particular business and none of them break marital vows.
If I am reading your comment correctly, you recently discovered something that happened a year ago, before you have made so much progress. You called him out on it and he lied about it. If it were me, I would have, in the moment, asked “Why do you feel like you need to lie about this?” You know. He now knows you know. You can move forward and have a conversation. You might still be able to circle back with this question, especially since he won’t be caught off guard. That is, if you want to hear him out.
If I mis-read and the hiring of the professionals took place *after* your come-to-Jesus talks, then I would skip all this and move straight to moving on.
(What is a professional male specialist gardener? I get the paid male professional gardener, but what makes it “specialist”?)
Vicky Austin
Being willing to accommodate some sort of extremely specific request, perhaps?
Anon
I’m guessing some type of f*tish/B*SM activity. Using asterisks because I have no idea what puts a comment in mod these days.
Anon OP
Specialist would be lots of esoteric gardening paraphernalia (which had not been discussed or brought up in our conversations previously). And you’re right on the timeframe – it was before our progress. We did have a follow up conversation where I heard him out. I think the lying comes from a place of deep shame for both the specialist nature and the gender of the professional, as well as panic that I might leave. I worry he’s just telling me whatever he thinks I need to hear.
What I can’t decide is if I want to try and rebuild. I can see the path forward for rebuilding – we were on it and I think we could get back on it. But I don’t know how to figure out whether or not I want to. There’s a big part of me that just doesn’t want to be on this journey any more. But there’s a part of me that wants to believe in the past 15 years, and wants to believe in the future we’d planned.
Anon
He hired male prostitutes.
Are you having new questions about his sexuality because of this? This is a big red flag for me, and it is unclear if you have already talked through this. If this is new, and he wont admit it, that’s the end for me…. Even if he admitted it, I think I would separate.
Anon
You should get individual counseling. Only you can decide if that marriage if worth it
Anonymous
Except that you weren’t actually on a path to rebuild, because he was still lying to you all that time.
Anon
Ding, ding, ding!!
Anon
Forget the last 15 years. The past is the past. What you’re deciding today is the future, and the past really has nothing to do with it. If you were considering getting into a relationship with this man today knowing what you know now, would you do it? My answer is HELL to the no.
Anonymous
He hired men as prostitutes. How compassionate do we need to be.
Anon
Specialist is someone who will do something out of the mainstream…BDSM, etc.
Anon
Lying about an event is not acceptable behavior, no matter when the event took place. Full stop.
OP- your husband’s lying is not OK. If you cannot trust him, you don’t have to wait around to discuss it more later. You don’t have to mental gymnastics with the timeline to show that his behavior was bad at the time but OK now. You can separate, get an std screening, talk to a high conflict divorce lawyer, get therapy, and/or leave him. You get to decide the right combination and timing for you. Your husband’s lying and also making you promise not to talk about it to your support group are HUGE red flags. The not talking about it your friends reads to me that he is setting you up to the bad guy and he the victim if you do talk. Not. OK.
Anon
15+ years married person here too, with kids. I agree with this answer. The timeline is important.
If he did really come to Jesus and stop doing anything once you were on that path, I would be ok with him.
Anon
For me, this would be it, because of the lying (the lying now and the part where he kept this secret over these past months).
And I would definitely not think it’s “pearl clutching” to be concerned if potential risks to my own health were being kept hidden from me.
Anon
I know it’s not what you want, but you need to leave. All of this together is just too much for you to accept, and is not what a marriage should be. Hugs. I know this is so hard.
Anon
I have a very very high bar for divorce and probably disagree with the “leave him” advice on this board 95% of the time…but in your situation I say GO! Staying with him will surely lead to more heartbreak (and potentially more catastrophic consequences).
Anon 2.0
Same. I think people on this board as way too quick to scream divorce, but not in this case. Given there are no children, the answer is much more simple. He knew he lied about/hid this from you and still chose not to disclose even once things were on the right path.
Anon
He doesn’t want you to talk to your friends because they’d all tell you to leave. And they’d be right. You’d advise them the same.
Open marriage? Fine, provided all parties are on board. This isn’t the situation in front of you. If he had any decency he’d be the one to leave – I can’t even fathom asking someone to forgive me if they found out I’d paid a professional gardener and then lied about it. Does he have no shame? Or no respect for you as a person, to expect your forgiveness for something like that?
Trust me, your future self is looking back at the decision you’re going to make today and congratulating you (and also thinking … what took you so long?)
Liza
No kids? Boy bye. Absolutely not.
Anonymous
I’m usually against divorce 95% of the time here but I would divorce him and cut all financial ties to him. He’s going down a bad road that might include stealing your money or other risky behavior/thrill chasing that might lead somewhere else criminal down the line if it hasn’t already. (My aunt divorced her husband when he was accused of viewing child p0rn because there could be big fines as part of the consequences – she believed him when he said he was innocent but this was a measure to protect her half of the assets. He was totally guilty and served 7 years in prison.) Get your stuff separated now.
If you love him and he’s family that’s fine — you can be his friend and help support him without being married to him. I would never sleep with him again with all the lies, I could never trust him.
Seventh Sister
Talk to a divorce lawyer, find a place to live, and move out. In my experience, sometimes cheating is a way that people force the issue of splitting up. FWIW, I feel like people of my generation (GenX) can get judgy about people splitting up because of emotional incompatibility, growing apart, etc., but cheating is a totally sufficient, complete explanation.
Nesprin
He asked you not to talk to your friends, but it sure seems like he don’t get to make demands at this point in the relationship.
No matter what the long term plan is (divorce, or some looong process of reconciliation), you need space, you need support from friends/family/therapist, and you need to feel your feelings. Captain awkward has a great thinking about divorce/ending a relationship list- it starts with getting away, thinking about what life would look like without your spouse and thinking about how to get there.
Anon
I think a separation is a good idea. I mean one of you getting a short term rental and giving each other space.
Anonymous
Trickle truthing is a dealbreaker. All that time you thought he was being honest with you and turning over a new leaf so things could be good again. Now you find out that he didn’t “just” have an emotional affair, there was physical infidelity. He admitted to the “lesser” offense that he thought you could stomach and withheld the full extent. And now he’s still lying. Nothing actually changed for him. He was lying then and he’s continuing to lie now, he’s just gotten better at manipulating you into believing his lies. I’m so sorry. How heartbreaking. But the only thing worse than being with a cheating lying manipulator for 15 years is being with one for 15 years and one day, two days, and so on.
anon
When it comes to big stuff like cheating, addiction, and finances where there’s one lie there are always more. You’ll never be able to trust him again.
Can you picture what it would take to feel confident that he’s sober and faithful and mentally stable? Even if he reaches this point you’ll always have doubts (and rightfully so). That’s no way to live. Get out now.
Anonymous
He sleeps with men, he lies, he does drugs. Where do you want to be in 5 years? If you stay will you be happier? Do you think anything will change? It sounds like you deserve better. Hugs and love from this internet stranger.
anon
You deserve way, way better, OP. This is far beyond what anyone should have to deal with in a marriage.
Anon
I wouldn’t stay. Sorry. Get your ducks in a row, know where every. single. dollar. of your money is, hire an attorney before you tell him what you’re doing, and then drop the bomb. This is not something you can heal from. He’s never going to be faithful to you. Ever.
Anonymous
This isn’t someone you are dating. You want a spouse to be someone you can depend on in your old age. Life is hard enough without tying yourself to someone who is going to make it harder. Get out now before you get more of your financial things mixed and more of your youth is wasted. I don’t say this lightly. But truly, if you get cancer tomorrow, you don’t want to be tied to this person who can’t deal with adulting even know when things are relatively good. He will ruin you, whether it’s financially through addiction or your health through external activities to the relationship or even just your mental wellness by making you question your judgment and what “normal” is. Things are only going to get worse if you stay because he knows you’ll have put up with it.
If you were my friend, I would be begging you to get out. You deserve so much more than this. I know it has been 15 years, and that feels like security. But that’s a false feeling and fear driving. There is absolutely no security to be found here.
Anonymous
Your last paragraph is exactly why he doesn’t want OP to talk to her friends. He knows they’d all beg her to leave him.
Anon
If you get cancer tomorrow, he may be one of the numerous men who leave their wives just when they need them the most. Or if he gets cancer tomorrow and needs nursing, you’ll be stuck and feel too guilty to leave him.
Anon
Listen, you will never not be waiting for the other shoe to drop (I know from experience), and that is absolutely no way to live. It will be almost impossible to to live fully in the moment, and happiness will always feels like it has asterisk. He might not be a bad man (people can do bad things without being villians), but you are going to have a very difficult time living a full life in this marriage. You will be at the beach with your girlfriends, enjoying margaritas, and out of nowhere you’ll wonder when your picture-perfect marriage is going to come crashing down (ask me how I know). You’ll be celebrating a big promotion, and in the back of your mind you’ll be thinking about whether he actually loves you and whether he is satisfied in your marriage (ask me how I know). Eventually, you will be sitting a red light and finally be able to say out loud, “I don’t want this anymore.” Don’t let that be five years from now.
edj3
I don’t remember who was posting a couple of weeks ago about getting a floofy tulle skirt. You were all urging the poster to live a little, so I looked at them and immediately saw a vivid magenta one I wanted soooooooo badly.
Your advice wasn’t for me, but I got that skirt anyway and I’m wearing it today and I love it.
Anon
I was one! Please share the one you got. Love this update!!
Anonymous
Virtual high five!
Sunshine
Please share a link to the skirt. This sounds like the kind of garment that boosts your mood all day long!
Anon.
I have ordered one, as well, plus a jeans jacket and some cute sneakers to wear with it!
edj3
Here’s the one I got (I actually also got a dark grey one but it’s going back–the point of this is fun and grey, while a lovely color, isn’t fun):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08T19F6ND?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
I’m wearing it today with a floral print long sleeve shirt from Talbot’s a couple of years ago, tied at the waist, and my new white Nike sneakers.
So glad whomever it was pushed the real OP to get it :)
Anon
Well done!
Where are you going today? Work? What do people say? Does everyone smile when they look at you?
Thanks for making everyone’s day!
edj3
Ah well I’m working from home today. And yeah I won’t wear this into the office for our strategy meetings the rest of the week.
But my husband (who’s also fully remote) and my kitties get to enjoy this. I’m swanning around every time I get up to get water or lunch or what have you, and enjoying the heck out of this skirt.
Senior Attorney
Hooray! I wore (one of) my tulle skirt(s) to a dinner party last night and I was the most dressed up person there and I didn’t even care!!
Anon
Summer sausage recommendations for a backpacking trip? I bought a giant one from my grocery store and think it would be unwieldy to have something I need a big knife and cutting board for on a trip. They’re there more petite kinds, maybe at REI or Walmart? New to non-refrigerated meat and I want to switch it up with Mountain house meals. I like some kinds of jerky but try to limit it to snacks here and there.
Anonymous
You have to refrigerate summer sausage after you open the package.
Curious
Yes, this. Ask me how I know…
Anon
Not quite what you asked, but I always carry a knife when backpacking (something like REI’s “Gerber Mini Paraframe Serrated Knife”). I also have ‘flexible cutting boards’ (something like Amazon “Flexible Plastic Cutting Board Mats set, Colorful Kitchen Cutting Board Set of 3 Colored Mats”) that I cut in half. I really like having both along, and the cutting board doubles as a plate.
Anon
It’s backpacking. Cut off irregular sized pieces with your pocket knife and maybe use a plate (if you pack one) or a nice rock as your cutting board. Or get a smaller sausage if that makes it easier. We usually get individually packed jerky sticks that you can bite without need for a knife.
SFAttorney
I used to see small ones at Cost Plus World Market. The Cost Plus near us has closed though. I don’t know if they’re still in business anywhere.
ALT
They are still in business (I work for them!) and yes, we have summer sausage.
I would do jerky or Chomp Sticks instead of summer sausage for a backpacking trip though…just my preference. You can eat a Chomp stick one-handed while walking and jerky can be eaten straight out of the package without any utensils required.
Anon
My husband likes Duke’s smoked shorty sausages – is that the kind of thing you’re talking about? They come in different flavors, and we find them at Target, Safeway or REI. (FWIW, my son does not like them, so maybe try it and see what you think.)
Anonymous
Couldn’t you cut it before you leave and bring the cut up pieces?
anon.
How do you all get the “lipgloss nail” trend at home? I want to try it! Thanks.
XCVI clothes anyone?
Ads for XCVI clothing keep showing up in my feed, probably because i’ve been searching for flowy, lightweight clothes for a vacation in South Africa (Cape Town, Joburg mainly). Any experience with this brand? Sometimes I am misled by the models and when I get these types of items on, they just look frumpy. Looking for decent quality, casual (but not leggings casual) type look for tourist activities.
Sunshine
My father is terminally ill and on hospice. We don’t have a good timeframe for how many more months he will live; fortunately, he is very comfortable and has no pain. We expect several family members and friends will travel from out of town for the funeral, and my mom and I would like to reserve a block of hotel rooms and then pay for the rooms for these travelers. This is what my parents did for my wedding but, of course, we had an exact date with the wedding and we do not for the funeral. Can anyone suggest how we should approach a hotel about the logistics of doing this? My parents live in a town that has two busy tourist seasons and two distinct shoulder seasons. So that complicates matters as well.
Anon
I am so sorry for your family.
Advice: don’t overthink this.
Funerals don’t have to happen immediately. If the hotels are completely booked out shortly after your dad dies, it’s a bad time for the funeral regardless of who is paying. So you would delay the service until you’re able to get the rooms.
When your dad is close to the end or has passed, call up the hotel and explain that you would like a block of rooms and that one person will be paying for all of it. Reserve the rooms. Done.
Vicky Austin
+1. And maybe this is something you can delegate to a trusted friend to do when the time comes, since you will inevitably be dealing with other things?
Thinking of you, Sunshine; hope you and your family can have some peace in a difficult time.
Sunshine
“don’t overthink this.” Thank you for saying that. I needed to hear it; that’s what I’m doing.
Based on my parents’ religious tradition, the funeral will be immediately after the death. I will add calling the hotel to my to-do list for the very very end of life. We are trying to get as many details taken care of in advance because we can. Sounds like this one needs to wait.
Anon
If out of town travel in for the funeral that is immediately after death is too complicated, would a small immediate funeral followed by a later, larger memorial be acceptable to your parents’ tradition?
Clementine
Yes, this is how many people handle it. A small, immediate funeral followed by a ‘celebration of life’ a few months later. This was often done to allow distant family members and friends to come.
Seventh Sister
Can the local house of worship / clergy member help? I had a dear friend pass away very unexpectedly, and the local religious community managed to coordinate some of the lodging / travel issues, in addition to a post-funeral meal.
Flats Only
If it will scratch your planning itch there’s nothing wrong with contacting likely hotels and chatting with their group sales manager. You will probably find one who is friendly, and then you’ll have half the leg work done when you need to get things set up later on.
Anon
while OP didn’t specify, in some religions (e.g. Judaism) funerals are supposed to happen asap after the person passes away
Anon
+1 technically within 24 hours, right? Although I know some fairly religious people who’ve delayed funerals so family members could fly in.
Sunshine
As a side note. While supporting and caring for my parents duing this long-term illness, this community has been a wonderful distraction and place that provides support and perspective. I am very very close to both of my parents and my father’s death comes too soon and is very difficult emotionally. Even when I’m not posting, I’m reading – sometimes as I sit by his bed while he sleeps. I’ve been part of this community for well over a decade using different handles. I’m so grateful you’re all here.
Clementine
Sending lots of love and peace to you from somebody else who’s been around for a long time.
Coach Laura
Sunshine, I’m so sorry that you’re dealing with this. We went through it recently – my husband was put on hospice on this past Christmas Eve – our 37th wedding anniversary – and died on New Years Eve. So my 30yo daughter and son are going/went through what you will be going through. I’m glad you have family and hope that all of you can support each other. I’m a planner too and it’s hard to plan for this, especially if the service must be right away. I hope the logistics get taken care of and glad that you can be there for him now.
Anon
I’m so sorry to hear that your husband has passed, Coach Laura. Wishing you strength and good memories to sustain you through the next year.
Hugs from another longtime reader but infrequent poster.
Anonymous
Don’t. You can’t plan like this. You can’t reserve a block with out a date and no one expects a room block for a funeral. They will figure it out.
Anon
+1
Anon
I may be generalizing out my own specific experience, but when we were in this situation the hospice and medical staff were able to give reasonably accurate estimates as to how long we had left. Not exact of course, but certainly clear steers as to whether he had weeks, days or hours left.
Anon
They were way off on both of my parents, relatively close on my daughter. I think it varies with the illness.
Curious
I’m so sorry for all your losses, but especially your daughter. No parent should have to lose a child.
edj3
I’m so sorry you are in this situation and admire you tremendously for being so supportive and faithful with your parents. I have no advice on the hotel situation, sending virtual love instead.
smurf
I’m so sorry for what you & your family are going through.
If you don’t already know which hotel you’d like to do the room block at, you could certainly call a few now to figure out like, if they offer room blocks, any # limits, etc. That way you have the bulk of the logistics done and can just call when the time arrives to make the reservation. This is a very generous offer to ensure loved ones can say their goodbyes and honor him, my heart goes out to you.
Anon
+1
If I were you, and I have been in a similar position, I would just do some very very basic research. I would email surf and find 1 or 2 places that seem to be about the right location/price range, and just email them or call to ask about group rates for emergency situations like this. Ask for the name of who you should ask for to set it up, when the time comes, and their phone number. A chain is great for this – Marriott. We like Marriott because they have the best/most consistent handicapped accessible rooms, which are great for a lot of elderly family members. They also have a lot of different properties at different price-points. But who knows what is convenient for your city.
This is also a great “job” for a sibling who is out of town and wants to “help”. And when the time actually comes, I would ask another family member to do the organizing, after you have done the first steps.
I am also a huge fan of the small funeral soon, if required, and choosing that Funeral Home and basic plans ahead of time. And then a Memorial later, that out of town family come to. Honestly, most people cannot travel immediately these days. But that may vary depending upon your family/situation.
I’m sorry you are going through this. I hope you can make the most of this hard time.
Liza
The way it was handled for my grandma’s funeral was that travelers booked their own arrangements then submitted to the executor for reimbursement as needed. Would this be something your parents would be comfortable doing?
Anonymous
This is wild to me. I can’t imagine trying to get travel and lodging reimbursed for a funeral of a family member!!
Anonymous
I would call my favorite smallish local hotel (ie not a huge chain) and see what they recommend. Perhaps they can set up group billing even if they can’t guarantee a block without specific dates. If you give guests 2-3 options then they should be able to find something even during the high season.
Sending warm thoughts to you and your family.
Nesprin
When my mother died, planning funeral+ end of life logistics was all I could handle, and planning travel would have been more than I could cope with. When the time comes, can you assign a friend or family to be “travel coordinator”, call a hotel and book rooms?
anon
You’re kind to think of this, but please focus on you, your mother, and your dad. I agree with Nesprin that if you want to help, appoint someone else to manage it.
Even without arranging housing for others, I had family who felt like they could trouble me with petty personal logistics issues around the funeral. It really hurt our relationship. Unless your family members/friends are in tough shape financially and you trust them to be incredibly well behaved, I would let them all handle accommodation on their own.
I had to handle so much before and after my dad died that I didn’t get a chance to really grieve until later and that’s really, really not ideal.
Anonymous
So sorry to hear about your father.
I agree with turning this over to a trusted friend when the time comes, or letting people make their own arrangements and submitting for reimbursement if need be, as mentioned above. One note from personal experience for you to pass along to whoever handles or file away – if you aren’t sure how many rooms you’ll need or specific arrival/departure dates, avoid using the words room block when contacting the hotel, try not to get shuffled over to a hotel’s group sales rep, and don’t sign a contract committing to filling a certain number of rooms at the hotel. Might seem obvious, but it happened in my family and was an unnecessary hardship to try to undo once we realized what had been signed.
Anon
This is good advice.
Anon
Vacation destination question!
I am graduating with my Masters in mid-May and would like to take a short trip to celebrate! Here’s some basic info:
– I’m coming from Philly
– I have 4-5 days for the trip (I worked FT while in school so have to fit this trip in with my vacation days allotment, have a family trip to Europe later in the summer which is eating a lot of my time)
– I would prefer to not eat up too much time traveling, and thus would prefer a direct flight or < 8 hour drive. I am okay with renting a car at a destination, but would have to fit that into the budget. I could also fly out of BWI, EWR, or maybe a DC airport. Also could fly out of Lehigh Valley International.
– I paid for school out of pocket, so my budget is about $1,000-1,500 for hotels/rental cars (not including flights, I will use points for that). Hotel needs to have a pool.
– I am okay with a domestic or international (probably Caribbean) destination. Not interested in Europe or Mexico, but could be convinced.
– I am probably going alone, but might bring a friend or my mom. In that case, budget is more flexible.
– Graduation is mid-May, I could travel anytime between then and Memorial Day Weekend but I need to be back in Philly for MDW.
– I am staying at my same job (for now at least!) following graduation, so this is my one chance to recharge.
I am utterly exhausted and so excited that graduation is on the horizon!!! I think I would like to lie on a beach, drink an umbrella drink and chill out. I am also open to meandering around a cute city or light hiking. I love trying local food and drinks when I visit places. Not interested in museums or much sightseeing on this trip, just want to chill. I want to go somewhere warm enough that I can lie on the beach or swim, but ideally not somewhere that's too hot yet as I'm active and will want to bike, jog, or hike on this vacation.
I don't love solo travel (had an incident where I felt really unsafe a few years ago), so if I'm going solo safety and feeling comfortable solo (so avoiding somewhere likely to have creepy men) is extremely important.
I've been toying with a few ideas, but am open to feedback on those locations and new locations.
– Hilton Head: I have never been, but looks conducive to spending time by the beach or pool. I have heard it might be too hot by mid/late May to make biking or jogging enjoyable though.
– Charleston/Savannah: I have been to Savannah, loved it and would be happy to go again. Have never been to Charleston but it's on my list. Would probably split some time in the city and sometime at the nearby beaches if I go this route. Same fears about it maybe being too hot, but I don't know.
– New Orleans: Have never been, has been on my list for a long time, but might be too loud for the type of trip I'm looking for. Ditto Nashville (which I have been to already).
I do think that both Asheville and Charlottesville would be nice, but I have weddings in both of those locations later this year and thus don't want to go twice. I've been to Florida a few times recently and also would like to avoid spending my money there…
Sorry for the long post, but I think I covered all of my bases! If not, will try to pop back in to answer any questions
Anon
Look at Live Aqua Cancun. I went there for a break after leaving a t0xic job and it was really restorative – adults only but not an overly romantic vibe, beautiful beaches and pools, great food and service. It would be an awesome friend trip, but you won’t be out of place solo. It would be near the top of your budget but in the general range (it was around $400/night last I checked). I know you’re not sold on Mexico but Cancun has a lot of the advantages of the Caribbean but the flights are shorter and cheaper. YMMV but May in the south is too hot for me. At that time of year I need to go north or I need to go to Mexico/Caribbean and be in a pool.
Anon
Will check it out, thanks? Would be in budget if I travel with a friend!
I totally agree that May in the South can be too hot, but also it’s not warm enough for swimming or laying out in PA yet! I haven’t been to NC/SC/GA in May but was in Southern VA in early June and it was too hot to hike. Went to Savannah in late April and it was perfect, so an extra month might make it too hot.
Anon
SC in May can go either way, weather wise. It can be cool enough for hiking, especially early in the morning or if you seek out shady places, but it could also be miserably hot. New Orleans will just be miserably hot.
emeralds
Charleston and/or Savannah weather should be pleasant in May, IMO. If you want low stress and non-challenging travel logistics with good food, Charleston sounds like a no-brainer. The beaches are nice, and there are plenty of parks that are pleasant places to run or bike. I love New Orleans, but it’s not where I’d go for a chill, outdoorsy vacation.
Not sure on the travel logistics from Philly or current hotel price points, but check out St John for a Caribbean location that would give you good options for lounging + umbrella drinks + National Park access.
Anon
I loved Savannah so much, and I think Charleston would be a similar type of vacation (we just walked around looking at the pretty architecture, went for easy runs, ate all of the good food, and lounged by the pool; unfortunately did not get a chance to make it out to Tybee Island due to circumstances).
I will also check out St. John! I do have a goal to make it to every National Park, and so getting to go to a non-CONUS one would be cool!
Cat
In your exact circumstances around law school graduation, I bailed for the Caribbean for 5 days. It was an easy connection through Miami and I looked SO relaxed in all the pics :) My suggestion is to play around with Google Flights and try flying random weekdays for the best fares.
Anon
Good call on the random weekdays! The number of days I can take off for this isn’t flexible, but which days I am gone is 100% flexible!
I”ve been to the Caribbean once as a child, so if anyone has recommendations of specific hotels I would appreciate it! I don’t really have a preference on where in the Caribbean.
Clementine
Puerto Rico? I’ve only heard good things and think it sounds like an easy trip but a perfect escape. It’s also supposed to be budget friendly.
Anon
Good idea! I share an office with a woman from PR, I can ask her for some recommendations!
Mrs. Jones
+1
Anon
I think there are also a fair number of direct flights from Philly.
NYCer
Bermuda would be a great option if you end up bringing a friend or your mom. I think hotels would probably be out of your budget if you go solo.
Anon
Yes – I looked at Bermuda (went once as a kid and loved it), but out of my budget solo. My mom loves Bermuda, so I could probably convince her if this is the destination :)
IIRC, food was also pricey there so hotel + food might make it a little tight even with a companion, but worth looking into more!
Anon
If you want to go to Bermuda, a cruise is the most budget way to do it. There are 5 day cruises that leave from NY/NJ that start as low as $400 per person. https://www.royalcaribbean.com/cruises/itinerary/5-night-bermuda-from-cape-liberty-new-york-on-liberty/LB05BYE-1681436401
Anon
Oh I had never thought about a cruise, but that is intriguing! I have never been on one, but worth exploring – especially at that price!! I could use the sailing days to just chill out and do nothing and then enjoy exploring Bermuda while there.
Anon8
I am not a big cruise person but did a Bermuda cruise out of NYC years ago that I loved. The ship parks in Bermuda for 3 days so you can basically use it as a floating hotel. If you’re open to cruises I would highly recommend this itinerary!
Anon
Yeah, cruises aren’t my favorite mode of travel in general, but it’s definitely good for a trip where you just want to veg out and decompress. I’ve long wanted to do a Bermuda cruise from NYC since they’re so affordable but my in-laws live in NYC so it’s a bit fraught because we can’t really do it without inviting them. So I’m jealous of anyone who can do this, ha.
anon
I think Hilton Head is not particularly exceptional – I would skip it. If you are choosing between Charleston and Savannah, I would fly to Charleston and go to either Kiawah or Isle of Palms. Wild Dunes at Isle of Palms is very nice and has lovely views. It can be hot, but I used to go to Kiawah/Isle of Palms every summer and it was fine to run so long as I went by 8-8:30 in the morning, or in the evenings. There is really nice marsh kayaking around Isle of Palms, which you might enjoy. Restaurants are thin in the immediate area but there’s a ton of good options within a 15-minute drive, without having to go into Charleston proper. The city itself is lovely and interesting architecturally, historically, and otherwise.
Savannah is nice but smaller and I don’t like Hilton Head much (which is your primary beach option). Jekyll Island and St. Simons Island are lovely but you’d have about a 90-minute drive from Savannah to get there.
You could also consider Bermuda. It is a bit cooler, has lovely beaches, has a calmer vibe, and is a very sort flight from the airports you mention; hotels can be pricey depending on how busy it is, however.
Anon
Yeah – I think I was viewing Hilton Head as like the Jersey Shore but warmer in May. Which, as someone who loves the Shore that is fine by me. But, since I’ve been to Savannah maybe Charleston/nearby beaches are better!
Gail the Goldfish
I almost suggested Wild Dunes, but I think it is out of budget if you’re staying in the hotel, unless they are running some sort of deals. Some of the rental condos might be cheaper. But agree if you liked Savannah, you’ll like Charleston. Mid-late May is shoulder season for the Caribbean and it might actually be the cheaper option. It will be pretty hot unless you’re sitting on the beach, though.
anon
I think the rental condos would be in budget – you can often get some really good deals on them in the shoulder season via AirBnb or VRBO.
bluebonnetanon
New Orleans is wonderful and is my absolute favorite city but I don’t think it is right for this trip. Too busy, too much you “should” do while you are there, too humid by May, not relaxing enough. I would skip it this time.
Anon
Agreed – probably not the chill out vibe I want!
smurf
I wouldn’t go to New Orleans for this — I loved my trip there, but it’s pretty busy, more active sightseeing than relaxing, and not the best choice if you’re really nervous about solo travel as frankly there are drunk men around at all hours of the day in the bourbon st/main areas. (totally recommend for a future trip with friends though!)
Since you have the option to go on random week days, I’d look for a Caribbean deal!
Conflict
There’s a job posted that I think I might be interested in. It’s related to my current field but would bring me down a different (possibly more interesting?) path. I’m not positive that it would be more interesting to me, but I think I would have to interview to find out. The catch is that it is with a company that is a key corporate supporter of an organization where I am a new board member. I worry that if I apply for the position and am not selected, or am offered the job but turn it down, it might create some awkwardness. Am I totally overthinking this?
Anon
Yes you are. No one outside of the hiring process will know unless you tell them. So don’t tell anyone unless you get a job offer and accept. If you don’t, it’s NBD and no one but the person/people who didn’t move you forward have to know.
Anonymous
Dramatically overthinking yes
Anon
Omg yes
Anonymous
Travel question – Has anyone been to Lake Oconee, GA? If so, what were your favorite restaurants in the area?
Fullyfunctional
Anything at the Ritz there. Enjoy!
Anonymous
Vacation planning help! Requirements:
– Tropical or tropical feel
– Direct flight from Boston
– Accommodates a family of 5, no sharing a bedroom with the children.
– Good activities for the kids. Kids will be 5/7/10 for the trip and if there is a kids club sort of thing, I’d like them to be able to stick together. Or, we’d keep the kids out of the club. A nanny would be OK too; we don’t want to drop the kids off the whole time we are away but getting a dinner night out would be great!
– Ideally I’d like an all-inclusive but could be flexible. If it’s not an all inclusive, I would want somewhere with a kitchen because the stress of deciding where / how to eat each day has started to ruin my vacations.
Our budget is flexible but I’d like to keep things sort of mid-range. We don’t need super high end places, I don’t care about golf or casinos, and our family is not terribly worried about restaurant quality.
I’m thinking Jamaica? A neighbor recently went to Punta Cana and said good things, but her kids are younger than mine (3,5) and she liked the kids camp as a place to drop them.
Anon
Beaches Turks and Caicos. Non-stop flights from BOS, all-inclusive, separate rooms (with bunk beds + trundle bed) for kids. It’s a high price point, but honestly every resort I’ve gone to that allows kids that isn’t a high price has been super disappointing. I’m not sure why this is, I’ve been to plenty of mid-range adults only places that were great but it seems like with kids you have to pay a ton if you want a decent experience. Great pools and waterpark, beautiful beach setting with included watersports. There are some adults only restaurants on the property so you can have a nice dinner or two sans kids. Beaches also has resorts in Jamaica so you could look at those as well, although I’ve heard they’re not as nice as the one in Turks.
I think pretty much every resort is going to group kids by age at the kids club, and your 5 and 10 year old won’t be together. 7 year old should be with either older or younger sibling depending on how it’s split. At Beaches it’s 5-7 and 8-10.
Anon
Extraordinarily limited direct flights from Boston, so double check, OP, and don’t assume that it works for you. We went in early December from BOS and flew through ATL because the directs were just not worth it and $$$$$$$$$ (like multiple multiples of the layovers), and it wasn’t just the time of year based on a lot of research and a conversaion with a travel agent friend. That all said, it’s amazing and checks 100% of the boxes you describe. Do it.
Anon
Direct flights to the Caribbean are often very expensive unless you’re flying from the NYC area. We fly out of Chicago and we have tons of islands we can fly to direct, but they cost at least twice as much as the flights with a layover. It’s annoying, but I don’t think it a problem that’s specific to Boston or Turks and Caicos.
Anon
(When I said NYC is cheaper, I meant as a comparison to BOS and other northeast cities. I assume it’s cheaper to fly from MIA, ATL and other southern hub cities than from NYC.)
NYCer
Check out Carlisle Bay in Antigua.
NYCer
Round Hill in Jamaica is also very family friendly, but likely more expensive.
Anonymous
Disney cruise for sure.
Cat
I agree with Beaches and Carlisle Bay as recs. FWIW I think Carlisle Bay is more “quiet with a side of kid friendly” as opposed to Beaches which is kind of kid chaos.
Anon
I wouldn’t call Beaches “quiet” (and would definitely not go there without kids, although people do!) but it was a lot less chaotic than I was expecting. I had visions of kids run amok and memories of cruises from childhood with kids running screaming up and down the halls, and it was not that at all. The kids camp staff is very attentive and most of the kids there were pretty well-behaved. The rooms are also well-insulated so you won’t hear anyone else once you’re in your room.
Cat
That’s good to know. We walked past the Beaches T&C like, 10 times since we were walking the beach from staying at a nearby resort. The dense rows of loungers, loud kids running around kicking up sand, etc. was a Scene.
At Carlisle Bay – which is a far smaller scale property – it was probably a third families with young kids and two-thirds older groups.
Anon
We didn’t spend that much time on the beach, because my kids are young and preferred the pools and also the beach is kind of narrow so it’s not the best lounging spot, but I thought the pools were about as peaceful as you can get at a property that allows kids. There are so many pools that people spread out and you don’t have anyone in your space. I read some things online about all the pool chairs being reserved early but we didn’t have any issues even though we were rarely at the pool before 10 am. The vast majority of the restaurants have an outdoor dining area (many are outdoor only) and I think that helps cut down on kid noise a lot vs. indoor restaurants. But I wouldn’t recommend it to adults without kids. We did see a few groups without kids, including some unhappy unhoneymooners, but for sure most people there have kids under the age of 12 or so.
anon
I don’t like kids but for my own (sorry?). I resisted Beaches T&C given all the stuff mentioned here that I had heard, but it was honestly lovely. Truly.
Anon
Bermuda.
Anon
How do you get going with work in the morning? I have no problem getting my day started in most ways but I struggle to start working when I get to work. I often don’t have a ton of work to do, so it’s easy to start with emails, the news, Wordle, getting coffee, but then I get in the slump of not being productive and thus when I do get actual work it’s really, really hard for me to get started.
Anon
In my case this was a sign I needed a new job.
Anon
Oh I definitely need one but work paid for grad school so I “owe” them one more year. I could pay them back if I leave before the year, but I’d only do that for a literal dream opportunity. It’s a strong preference to finish out my commitment before I leave (small industry, everyone knows each other, would prefer not to have the reputation as someone who “burned” my current employer).
Vicky Austin
I struggle with this too, and the thing that has been the most effective was at a previous job when I set my browser to auto-open with a couple tabs associated with certain tasks that I had to get done every day (one of which was literally just clocking in, so you can scrape the bottom of the barrel here, lol!). Can you make a list of your responsibilities and pick out a couple easy, daily or daily-ish tasks that you’ll do first before opening email or whatever else is distracting?
Anonymous
setting a shortcut or similar to auto open the right programs and tabs for me has been a lifesaver. When I start-up my computer, I hit one button which automatically opens things and walks me through the start of my day.
Anonymous
I leave myself a “do now” task. Every day last thing I write down what one easy thing I am starting with.
Vicky Austin
I do this too! Especially if I leave work in the middle of a task. So much easier to get back into the groove if I leave myself a signpost.
Anonymous
If you truly do have time in the morning at work, and you are also not enthused about your current job, can you try online educational self-paced courses that might benefit you in your next job? It might scratch the “productive” itch, while also being ostensibly work related.
Anon
Help me use my words. I matched with a guy on Hinge. We chatted for a bit and then last night he asked if he could call me. We talked for an hour, but only because I was too shy/nervous to end the call when I realized I wasn’t interested (which was quickly). He’s texting me this morning already. Anyone have a good prompt? I do feel I led him on because we exchanged a few additional (G rated) pictures during the call. I’m really kicking myself for not using my words on the phone, but alas, can’t go back in time now. Does anyone have a good prompt?
Anon
I’m not great at this, but I usually use something along the lines of this when I realize I’m not interested in someone from hinge.
“Hey, it was great meeting you but I don’t think we’re a great match.” Sometimes I add in a best of luck, sometimes I don’t.
Anonymous
This. Short , simple, direct, and kind.
Anon
Ghost. You don’t owe this guy anything.
Anon
I hate it when guys ghost me, so I don’t do that, personally. I’d rather have confirmation to stop hoping in a short and often generic text.
Vicky Austin
Nah, this is unnecessarily harsh. In the absence of the guy being actively terrible, two seconds to do the socially decent thing won’t hurt.
Anon
I think you owe him decency because he’s a person with emotions who has not done anything wrong.
Anon
After a date is one thing, this is at the chatting pre meeting phase. Ghosting is what you do here.
Anon
If you really believe that, maybe dating isn’t for you.
Anon
Seriously. He’s still a human being, she doesn’t have to be an asshole. This idea that we should never have to do anything that makes us the least bit uncomfortable is really pathetic.
Anon
Nooo, that’s super rude and over what, some extremely minor discomfort? Don’t be a flake. Text back a no thank you message like others suggested and move on.
Liza
+1 honestly. So many men become abusive and nasty in the face of a direct rejection, it’s not worth the hit to OP’s mental health. OP, if you have any inkling this guy will not accept it graciously, I don’t recommend the direct approach.
Anon
Ugh don’t ghost. Just be polite and say you didn’t feel a romantic connection and he does not accept that, block him and report him on hinge.
Anon
First of all, don’t kick yourself! You weren’t leading him on. This happens all the time. There’s a spot where attraction is murky and sometimes you need a moment to reflect to know for sure that you’re not interested.
Second of all— My generic not interested text is this: I’ve been thinking about our (conversation, date, whatever) and I don’t think it’s a match from my end. I’ve appreciated getting to know you.
(Sometimes I end there or sometimes with a “good luck with X event” or whatever if there’s something appropriate from conversation)
And if he follows up with questions, I am very generic about the chemistry just wasn’t right from my end.
Anon
This is correct.
Sunshine
I think soft honesty is the way to go here. “I’m happy we got the opportunity to chat last night. After that conversation, I realized that we are not a good match. Good luck out there!”
Anon
This is it.
Senior Attorney
Yes. Boom!
go for it
yes! agree.
Trixie
Well, don’t overthink this, as you have had only one phone call. Just text him that for you, the chemistry/connection/spark is not there, he seems like a really nice guy, and you wish all the best in finding someone. Full stop. If he keeps texting, ask him to stop. if he keeps texting again, block him.
anon
1. It was great talking to you but I don’t see this going somewhere and I don’t want to waste your time. Good luck out there!
2. Don’t screen your dates via phone call. It’s a poor indicator of what your chemistry will be like in person. You guys are total strangers, of course a phone call will be awkward. Plus it builds up expectations then you might be completely unattracted once you lay eyes on him. At best the phone call is a waste of time, at worst you’re eliminating someone who’s a good fit in person.
Anon
What do you suggest saying in response when a match wants to call/FaceTime?
Anonymous
I offer to make plans to meet in person and if they don’t want to do that, then I move on.
anon
It means the guy is kind of weird and you should avoid him? Half kidding.
“I’d rather meet up for happy hour this week. I’ve found that a phone call before meeting in person isn’t very helpful. Have you been to X bar? They have a great patio.” If the guy still demands a phone screen I’d avoid him. In my experience and my friends’ experience those guy are strange once you meet in person, like they’re anti social and need a lot of convincing to interact with humans.
OOO
Anyone watch CBS Mornings? Tony Dokoupil is so awkward. Last week he said some culturally insensitive things and was called out by a cohost. This morning he was talking over the other hosts and cutting them off and just being weird, and he was called out by the guest. He’s making the show hard to watch.
Anon
I’m not familiar with that show, but what you describe reminds me of Don Lemon’s morning show a few weeks ago when he went on about how Nikki Haley isn’t in her prime anymore as a woman and how a woman’s prime ends in her forties. The other two women cohosts were flabbergasted. He took a few days off, tweeted a half apology, and now gets to resume like nothing happened. I was disappointed because I used to enjoy his prime time coverage.
Anon
Don Lemon can suck balls. eff him. I can’t believe he’s still on the air.
highlander
This morning he wondered aloud why Kacie Hunt, who had just given birth on her bathroom floor after a 13-minute labor, did not “do hair and makeup” and appear on the air for an interview (she was on the phone). Clearly a joke, but one that fell flat. I could have imagined it but I think I saw both cohosts wince.
Cb
My housemate tends to have the UK morning shows on in the background and I’m shocked at how cheesy they are. The guy always has this regressive schtick he does.
Laundry System?
Does anyone have a laundry system? Do you just do it constantly? Certain types of loads on specific days (eg, Towels every Monday, whites on Tuesdays, sheets and kids clothes on Saturdays)? Do it all on weekends?
I feel like I’m drowning in laundry (four person household – 2 kids under 3).
Anon
I am childfree/single so no system since it’s just 1-2 loads a week, but something that has really helped my roommate was that she gave up on separating everything and now just washes everything together. She had had a very complicated system (whites, darks, colors, athletic clothes, sheets/towels, delicates) but as a solo person it was way overkill. Just throwing that out since you mentioned towels, whites, and sheets as being separate.
When we were kids my mom gave up on individual laundry baskets and just had everyone dump their laundry directly into the washer before bed at night. She’d wash/dry at night, fold the next AM and then give everyone their clothes back before we all left for work/school. And on different days she’d ask different people to bring their sheets/towels in to get added to the load.
Anne-on
One note – my husband is adamantly against ever running the washer/dryer at night or while we’re out of the house. After a few friends have experienced floods from the washing machine breaking and dryer fires I am inclined to agree with him. We had a dryer fire (electrical malfunction, NOT from lint) and while it was awful at least we caught it immediately.
Anon
Ah – my roommate was the same way – didn’t let me run the washer/dryer/dishwasher at night or if someone wasn’t home. I worked 80 hour weeks in an office. It was a huge point of contention, lol.
anonshmanon
For the washer, you can install a safety shutoff with a sensor that will catch a hose leak.
Anne-on
I have switched to washing just about everything except work clothes/bras/specialty workout clothes in cold water and drying on medium heat so that everything can be thrown in together. I typically run a load almost every day – I’ll start one as soon as I come down in the AM for breakfast and then it’s ready to toss in the dryer right before we leave for school and I’ll fold after dinner when we’re all having TV time. Sheets/towels/bathmats are saved for the weekend so I can make the beds all in one go.
Cb
I use the timer so it’s ready in the AM. Too expensive to run the dryer in the UK at the moment, so we have a heated airer. I try and do laundry by theme – so all the kid stuff at once, all the jeans/trousers, soft stuff, etc. as it’s easier to hang up.
Liza
No system, family of 4 also. I’d say I end up doing 3 loads of clothes per week, one for me, one for DH, and one for the kids combined. They happen at totally random times depending on when the baskets get full or someone is out of something. Each load takes maybe 30 minutes of active management by me (5 minutes to gather/load the washer, 5 minutes max to switch to dryer, 20 minutes to fold and put away a load), so it’s not a big deal. I wash sheets every other week which adds 2 more loads to that week (but those take 5 minutes to “fold,” not 20).
Is there an issue you can pinpoint that is causing yours to happen more frequently or take more time? Two potential ideas: get a higher-capacity washer or dryer so you can do more at once; buy more clothes/undies for people if you’re doing smaller loads more often because people are running out of things.
Anon
Yes! Now that I WFH, laundry gets done during the day. Monday is sheets and towels (towels and pillowcases every week, an extra load for the sheets every other week). I wash my clothes every other Friday (one load for cool, one for warm, which doesn’t exactly correspond to whites and darks). Husband does his own whenever he feels like it. Obviously it’s easier without kids, as I just do 2.5 loads per week.
nuqotw
2 kids under 3 make a *lot* of laundry. I don’t remember what we did at that stage but I think we just washed stuff in a frantic haze. I do remember that our kids as toddlers both loved loading the washing machine. We would put a pile of clothes on the floor and a kid would load it. We’d cheer as each object went in. Then they figured out it was a trick.
Over the years this system has emerged:
We are 2 adults, 2 early elementary kids.
Washing / drying:
Usually 4 loads on Sunday: 2 loads of sheets (kids, grown ups), 1 load of towels / rags, 1 load of clothes. Sometimes a 5th load, depending on energy / total amount of dirty laundry / grossness of laundry.
During the week: I try to do at least one load in the M – Th window, definitely if there is an acute mess e.g. throw up. (In case you’re wondering, I do most of the laundry while spouse does most of the dishes / kitchen clean up.)
One load Friday afternoon or Saturday night, especially if I didn’t do a load in the M – Th window.
Folding: Weeknights watching TV / Saturday. We try to get the kids to do some. (Anyone who wants a particular item before we get to it needs to fold their own laundry.)
Putting away: Grown ups put away their own laundry in theory but in practice the folder often puts it away. Older kid puts away his own laundry; we have to make sure he distributes it evenly so that we don’t end up with one drawer that won’t open because it has all the clothes in it. Younger kid puts away his own laundry less often than we would like but more often than never so I guess it’s a win.
anon
I have certain days for towels, sheets, and household stuff (like cleaning rags). Otherwise, I try to keep up by doing a load of clothing every couple of days. 2 kids, 2 adults. So, yes, basically the answer is to do laundry all the time and not let it pile up too much.
Anonymous
We do laundry on the weekend. It takes a full day to do 8 – 9 loads for towels, sheets, and clothes sorted by color and weight. All loads fill our high-capacity washer except for athletic clothes and delicates; we do these loads separately for wear/lint/odor control reasons. In between folding loads we do other housework and yard work, and the person not doing laundry does errands.
Anon
That sounds exhausting
An.On.
I agree with Anne-on. I wash everything in cold. I remove bras and other delicates to hang dry, and everything else just gets tumble dried. Each family member also has separate laundry baskets so clothes don’t get mingled although our kitchen towels will get tossed in randomly depending on who does laundry next. Bedsheets/blankets are done in a separate load, except the kids’ stuff, which are done with their laundry. Laundry is generally done when the basket is full unless there’s a need for something sooner. I wouldn’t think any one person would have more than one load a week.
Can I also hijack this thread to ask when people add liquid detergent to their washer? I pour it in, then do the clothes and turn the machine on, husband pours directly onto the clothes after they’ve been added and then runs the water, but it seems like most recommendations say to pour it after the water is filling the tank. Do people actually do that?
Anon
+1 everything washed together on cold, pull out the few hang dry things I have and then throw everything else in the dryer together.
I do sheets and towels weekly and I workout 5-6x a week so I usually have 1.5-2 loads a week just for me.
I add liquid detergent like your husband – on top of the clothes but before I start the machine. I don’t have the time or head space to wait around for the machine to fill before putting the detergent in!
pugsnbourbon
+1, I wash just about everything on cold and hang dry sweaters and bras.
As far as detergent, I add detergent, then clothes, then turn the washer on. I think the washer lid locks when the water gets added so I don’t even know how I’d add it later.
Anonymous
I pour the detergent in the little drawer.
Anonymous
i have a front loader so detergent goes in the detergent slot in the drawer. I usually put it in after I finish loading the drum and closing the door.
Anon
Single and live solo in an apartment where the building laundry machines are 1.25 each in quarters. I do a full larger load of laundry every twoish weeks. Everything goes in together on hot wash. Ill seperate out what can or needs to air dry before starting a dry cycle.
A few points at the height of the quarter shortage, I had no quarters and couldnt hold out any longer so I did the washing in the bathtub. If you want a good arm workout, wash a bed sheet set by hand.
anon
I’m as Type A as they come and we just do it Friday night [like put it in, turn it once before bed]/Saturday for the most part and put it away Sunday once the pile in the laundry room becomes too large. We don’t sort. Try to do our big bulk towels together. But yea. It’s just not where I am willing to dedicate a lot of mental energy. Shrug.
Anonymous
Check out Dana K White and her system with laundry day. Youtube.
PJ
Fam of 4, 2 kids <4. I do all the laundry and love it. Most mornings and evenings, I touch it, just 5 min here and there to keep things moving. I use the short cycle for most clothing, and I line dry my clothing. I don’t sort by type; I do separate by mom/dad/kids – makes putting away much easier.
Sheets and towels on weekends.
Kitchen towels / placemats about 1x week.
Anonymous
I do!
I separate everything and do at least one load a day. I do towels 3 times a week, clothes 3 or 4 times a week, sheets once a week, and blankets once every two weeks. I usually assign each to a day, but sometimes it changes.
In the summer I use a clothesline so do clothes more often to accomodate drying time.
Bette
This thread was a lot more fascinating than expected, thank you!
I WFH and try to do laundry during the workday on Fridays – I usually just wash one big load with my clothes and toddler’s clothes together (cold water, low heat) and try to fold/hang/put away the same day. Cold water is much better for the environment and gets clothes just as clean. If I’m really on my game I put socks in a laundry bag so they’re easier to sort afterward.
I try to minimize folding as much as possible because I hate it so much and it was causing me to procrastinate on putting clothes away, so I’ve designed our closet systems so that I can hang up as much as possible. Oh a good day, I put the toddler’s clothes on hangers but then he hangs them on on the rod himself that evening.
Then I usually do one more load over the weekend with dish towels, bath towels, and kiddo’s blanket & sheet from school. I wish I could do that during the day on Friday too but they don’t send home his sleeping stuff until Friday evening and it needs to be washed before Monday morning. This load I do usually wash on warm or hot, since it’s mostly grosser kitchen stuff. Folding towels usually happens during an evening tv date with my husband.
Everyone pretty much uses one bath towel a week, and we only change our bedsheets every two weeks, which helps cut down on the linen loads. If it felt important to me to change bed linens weekly I would probably just invest in multiple sets so I wasn’t doing extra loads every week. I do think you can also think about volume vs frequency for clothing and find what works best for you – I’ve experimented with having enough clothes to go two weeks vs doing one load a week, and found that washing a smaller volume of clothing more frequently was the right balance for me.
Husband does his own laundry whenever he feels like it. We’re about to add another baby to the mix so this whole routine is probably going to explode anyway!
Anon
I’m in an apartment building with a shared laundry room, 2 adults and one child. I do it on Sunday afternoons after swim class. I actually hate doing it on weekends but I find that swim stuff smells really bad if I don’t wash it immediately. I do 1-2 loads of our clothes (all on cold), one load of towels (including kitchen towels and and napkins), and every other week I do a load of our sheets. It takes about 2.5-3 hours including folding, but obviously most of that time is hands off. I usually do it while I’m doing some meal prep for the week, cleaning up, and making dinner.
Anonymous
This is basically what we do. Sometimes my husband does a load or two mid-week, but usually we do it on the weekend. The glory of apartment building laundry is we can do multiple large loads at a time and the whole process only takes a couple of hours. We are a family of three and we usually can get away with 4-5 loads a week, but we don’t wash sheets and towels that much. We do sheets one weekend and towels the next, so they go 2 weeks between washing. This may be gross but they don’t stink and it works for us.
Anon
Yes, my system is that my husband does all the laundry. Sometimes I fold and put away, sometimes he does that too.
He sorts on the floor into about 5 piles – typically, towels, dark knits (we have a lot), jeans and pants, light colored clothes, and dark colored clothes that aren’t dark knits.
Sheet washing on a different day.
I stay out of the way of the piles until he’s done. He is good about hanging things to try rather than tumble drying them, and he is also good about getting things out of the dryer as soon as they’re done. I am not good about either of these things, which is why he does the laundry.
So except for sheets, there’s one designated Laundry Day. We both WFH but before we did, it was always on a weekend day, and yes, it just takes half the day but that’s laundry day.
We made a deal with our kids that anything not in their laundry baskets didn’t get washed, and they figured it out pretty quickly. Once they were a couple of years away from going to college, they did their own laundry, but that was frustrating for my husband because they were always leaving things in the washer or the dryer. (They get that from me)
Anonymous
We have a split hamper and all clothes get sorted immediately as lights, brights or darks (plus a small bag for my delicates). Baby stuff all goes in one hamper and tends to be lights or brights. When any compartment of our hamper is full, that plus baby stuff = a load. (if doing lights, I pull out the brightest/darkest baby stuff just in case). Always washed cold. Sheets get done when we can be bothered. Works out to a load a couple times a week. I work from home and husband is stay at home dad, so we can do it whenever a hamper looks full.
Anonymous
Trying to decide between staying put at my current job (Job A) or taking on a new job (Job B).
Job A:
– Pays fine but not great. Guaranteed annual raise (2.5%) and bonus (5%).
– Paid for half of my graduate degree, if I leave in the next 18 months I owe 10k. I have this money, but obviously not paying it would be great.
– Benefits are fine: 6% 401k match, healthcare is fine (costs are average, coverage is better than average), not impressed with PTO or work culture. Culture is very corporate, my background is non-profits and it’s really hard for me to adapt to how corporate it is.
– I don’t like my day to day work. My boss is kind but a bad manager. Higher level management has at times absurd expectations. Day to day work is related to but no in my wheelhouse.
– I come to work, say hi to my neighbors, and then work alone at my desk all day every day. I hate this. I rarely have meetings, never work with people on different teams, never do “non-desk work”.
– Don’t like what I do, but it is diversifying my resume. My background is niche, so diversification is good.
– Will likely get “automatic” promotion in 1-2 years. Moving up beyond that dependent on boss leaving or switching teams. Promotion would likely come with a 10-15% raise.
– No layoffs in my department, but other departments have had layoffs this year. More are expected, but still not expected to impact my department.
– Am “on call” 1 week of every 4 but only get called 1-2x a year.
– Very large, well established company.
– Commute is a 20 minute walk, which I enjoy.
– If I stay at this job now, I am 100% leaving as soon as my school repayment time is paid back. I have zero desire to stay here one month longer than that.
Job B:
– Is likely to be a 10-15k raise. No bonus. Raise is not guaranteed but is usually 1-3%.
– Excellent benefits: 8% 401k match, 2 more weeks of PTO than I currently have + separate sick time (currently one bucket), healthcare is more expensive than current job but outstanding coverage.
– First level manager is great (friend of a friend, has a really excellent reputation in our field, met him for coffee before I applied and was really impressed). Management above him seems a little chaotic – recent turnover, changes in team organization. However, the department did get a budget increase this past year (which I heard was rare)so all jobs in the department seem stable.
– Organization as a whole is a little turbulent right now. Getting some bad press, some of it seems warranted, some of it is beyond the org’s control. Overall culture has similar overall culture as my current job (aka not good) but team culture seems much better than current job. Job is still a corporation but known to have much less of a corporate culture, so might be less grating to me.
– Job is exactly in my wheelhouse. In talking with the first level manager, some projects mentioned in the interview are exactly what I’ve done before and enjoyed working on.
– However, I am early career (8 years in) and am a little concerned about going back to my wheelhouse and pigeonholing myself.
– This position is brand new, room to build it into what I want. First level manager mentioned this flexibility in interview. Really wants me to make it my own. Program is growing and improving on what it once was (he has only been there 18 months, previous manager was apparently not engaged or forward leaning), which is exciting. Also, one of the job duties is something I have no experience with which is both scary (I might be bad at it or hate it) but also exciting (new skills! this specific skill is very transferable).
– On call roughly 50% of the time (split with manager) but seems to be more flexible when flexibility is needed. Probably get called half of the time I’m on call.
– This job is definitely busier/more stressful than current job. I did leave my last job (Job C, where I worked with manager’s friend) because I was burnt out and so I am a little concerned about going back to a faster paced, higher stakes job again. But, I’m also bored AF at my current job.
– Job would be much more varied. Different projects, work with partners in and outside of the organization, would have presentations, meetings, and trainings that get me up from my desk.
– No direct path to promotion, unless I change departments or someone in my department leaves. Promotion would likely be a 5-15k raise. However, this job is much more “high visibility” than my current job.
– Commute is 25 minutes on public transportation. Job is located on a somewhat safe commercial strip in a not safe town.
To me it boils down to:
Job A: meh, status quo, boring, money and benefits aren’t great but saving that 10k is, bad culture
Job B: more money/better benefits, more exciting, but more work and bad culture
I was all in on Job B, but have recently been more concerned about some of the culture/bad press (as I literally read about it in the press). It’s definitely the work I want to do with better pay and better benefits, but some of the same headaches as current job. I am slightly worried about it being busier or more stressful, I like some level of that in a job but don’t want to become burned out again (it took me TWO YEARS to get over my burnout!!!)
anon
My vote is to keep looking. The drawbacks to Job B are substantial.
Anon
Stay in Job A until you find Job C, which is the pay and benefits of B without the turbulence.
OP
I should have added the caveat that I work in a niche role and so jobs in my field don’t come up very often, and well paid ones come up even less often. While I agree that waiting for a job that’s like B without the turbulence is the best bet that may be years away.
Anonymous
Then you need to stop being a Pollyanna and focus on developing a skill set that qualifies you for jobs that aren’t this rare.
OP
I have leaned out and diversified and have been unhappy doing work I don’t enjoy, which is why I’m looking to get back to my wheelhouse. Unfortunately, with the wheelhouse comes rough culture fits. I don’t think there’s a silver bullet for me, unfortunately. I have many friends in my industry in similar situations.
Anon
I am about the same age as OP and I feel like many of my friends are in similar-ish situations. Unless you up and move, once you’re specialized there are usually only a few options for employers even in major cities. Moving from job to job isn’t very practical and it might be years before finding one worth taking. For example:
– My friend is a cardiology NP so technically she could get another NP job, but her speciality is cardiology and thus she needs to be in a hospital (and even in my big city there’s a limit on how many hospitals there are!) as opposed to a different healthcare setting. The cardiology departments at these hospitals only have so many slots for NPs so she is where she is.
– My cousin is a mailman. He could go to UPS or FedEx but that’s really it.
– My friend is a high school Spanish teacher. She could change schools or switch to middle school, but she can’t switch which subject she teaches. High school Spanish teacher jobs don’t come up very often (like I remember when she got this job it was the one Spanish teacher job open that year within a 40 min commute).
– My friend is a biomedical engineer focused on spines. There’s only a handful of biomedical firms in our city, and only one focuses on spines.
– I have a job that is only a government job, it doesn’t exist in other sectors. I do the job for my city. I could do the job for the state or the feds, but that would require moving and I have family reasons to stay put. So, here I am.
I feel like people are often painted as being “too picky” but there’s a lot of jobs that paint you into a really niche position early on. OTOH, my friends in big law, finance, accounting, comms, and marketing have more flexibility, but most of my friends are not in these paths (lots in medicine, engineering, government).
Anon
Even within the fields you listed it’s not always that easy. I’m in a niche area of comms and have been looking for a new job for a year and have only found about half a dozen positions that are a good fit for my interests and expertise. Certainly there are tons of jobs that are broadly in comms/marketing, but I’m not qualified for or interested in the vast majority of them.
Anon
For sure, I over simplified! Even in big cities with lots of jobs, many people don’t have that many jobs that are actually open to them
anon
1:01, same here. I am not super happy with my current position but I sure haven’t found anything better or worth leaving for.
Anon
Actually, those people do have flexibility. It’s all how you look at at it.
But a NP in cardiologist can switch to any other area of medicine she wants – inpatient or outpatient or research studies or even industry – and would be trained in that field once she gets there. That’s why being an NP (or a nurse in general) is so wonderful. When we hired one, we knew they are smart and knew the basics of medicine, and with time they picked up what the role needed them to do. And they got paid amazingly well for decent (relatively!) hours. But she probably likes the big bucks she is getting right now (she picked a very lucrative subspeciality), but she has tons of flexibility if she wants to stay in medicine.
And I can do a similar thing for each of your other fields – biomedical engineer, teacher etc… Of course, if you want to STOP being an engineer or teacher, that may require a lot more work to change (or just go into management/administration/sales in your field).
It just requires learning something new, so being a little uncomfortable for awhile. It’s ok if they don’t want to do that, but often people who think they are “stuck” are just… scared… or haven’t thought outside of the box… or don’t want to give up any $$.
Anon
Sure, you can always change your career path. I was more mentioning that as a NP working in cardiology in a hospital setting, there are only few slots. She doesn’t want to work in outpatient or in research or in research, she wants to be a bedside NP. She’s in cardiology bc she was in the cardiology ICU as an RN and loved it and now is staying on that path as an NP. Obviously she has options that aren’t being a cardiology NP but that’s what she wants to do. Switching what she does is obviously an option, it’s an option for all of us, but she’d have to drastically change her day to day in order to do that.
Like yes, my friend who is the Spanish teacher could work in curriculum development or ed tech or something too, but that’s not being a classroom teacher. If she wants to be a classroom teacher she has very few options in our area.
Going with your logic there’s nothing stopping the NP from becoming the teacher and the teacher from becoming the NP, they just need to stop being “scared”, think outside the box and be okay with going back to school and radically changing their careers.
Anon
But most of us are in the position, if we are lucky enough to find what we love! Most of us don’t even find a career we love.
Vicky Austin
To me, no money is worth bad culture (especially bad enough that you read about it from a news source).
OP
What I read in the news about it wasn’t really culture specific. I am trying to be vague here, but it’s that there’s a nursing shortage at local hospitals which is endemic of a bigger problem in healthcare right now. So it’s not great that the nurses being profiled in the newspaper were from this specific hospital, but also I know that all of the other local hospitals have the same problem. As I stated – some of the issues the hospital can fix and some are just bigger problems. I did learn some information about this hospital specifically from the articles, but also I know that Hospital C, D, and E are having similar issues.
Anon
+1 and it’s not even like you’re doubling your salary. 10-15k raise is really not that much (and I make a lot less than most here, not even six figures).
OP
I think when I did the math it would be about $800 month difference for me, which is pretty substantial as I also don’t make six figures.
Anonymous
Job b isn’t really even more money once you have to repay grad school. 50% on call is absurd. Stay in job an until you find something better.
OP
I agree that 50% of on call is awful, but it is very common in roles like mine. Many of my friends in this industry are on call 100% of the time (which is why we burnout)
Anon
All day/all night on call? Definitely not worth it if you aren’t making > 100K!
Local gov't anon
Lol – I don’t know a single person I work with who makes more than 70k and we are all on call 50% of the time! Sometimes this board makes me laugh
OP
I work in corporate safety and security, I get a call (and am expected to answer) every time there’s an incident with any employee and often have to log on, organize conference calls or meetings, do paperwork, etc. when called. I make 80k a year. In anything safety related, being on call is really common.
In a previous job, I worked for a utility company. Every local, city, and county government that we serviced had a direct line to my boss and would frequently call anytime there was an outage but also anytime power needed to be shut off for public safety reasons (for example: down wires near a fire ground). He got calls 3-4x a month, almost always overnight, and once called had to put in a few hours of work for each incident (usually in person, occasionally remotely).
OP
Sorry – I am not OP on this thread!!
Anonymous
Why are you going to grad school to stay in a shitty career.
Anon
Desire to give back via public service
Betsy
As I read the Job B description it took me a while to see any drawbacks. I agree the added on call time is one, and it sounds like the commute is worse but not more time consuming. Are you recovered enough from your prior position’s burnout to turn the volume back up? The fact that you are so bored in your current role suggests that you might be. If you’ve learned some lessons that will help you set some boundaries to prevent burning out so hard next time, I think I would take position B.
Betsy
Oh, but I would also try to negotiate position B covering the school repayment as part of your offer. Especially given that it sounds like your field has shortages, you have some power here!
OP
That’s a great suggestion. If I decide to go with Job B, I will definitely ask for that!
Anon
A workplace culture so bad it’s in the news seems like a huge drawback to me but I guess YMMV.
OP
I should clarify! I’m not a healthcare worker but I work in a hospital setting. The article was about the local nursing shortage and profiled the hospital, but all local hospitals have nursing shortages. And what hospitals have great work culture/management? None that I’ve worked at thus far!
I’m sure the nursing shortage is indicative of other culture issues that also apply to non-clinical staff, which made me hesitate. But, healthcare is also a brutal industry.
Anon
So how often are you bothered on call? That would matter to me. How stressful is it to carry the pager?
OP
I don’t love being on call, but it’s not too bad. I can do 90% of things that I’m called for from home. At my old job, I was called approx once a month but that required going into the office most times I was called. At current job, called 1-2x a year and its all done remotely.
It’s not like doctors being on call. Much more akin to IT personnel being on call, if you’re familiar with that. Hey something went wrong, only a handful of people (the on call rotation) can fix it.
Being on call is rough because it does limit what you can do, but what I have to do when I get called isn’t bad.
Anon
Not OP, but I found being on call very stressful even when I was rarely bothered (I’m in IT so I only have to deal with unexpected things, which happen rarely – it’s not like a doctor/nurse who gets paged to go in whenever they’re on call). When I started my job I was on call every sixth week and that was annoying but manageable, then my team got restructured so I was on call every third week and that was pretty awful, then a coworker left so the other guy and I were going to have to split call 50-50 and we both freaked out and were prepared to quit over this, to the point that they ended up getting rid of the on call system. So yeah…it can really impact your life even when you’re not getting calls. I found that it impacted my sleep a lot because I couldn’t fall into a deep sleep when I knew there was a possibility of a 3 am call (even if it rarely came).
Betsy
Based on OP’s follow up comments it sounds like it’s mostly just that the industry has problems. If anything, the fact that the people speaking out about it publicly are associated with job B says to me that they might think employer B has the desire/ability to drive change. At any rate, it doesn’t sound like OP is interested in changing industries so the industry challenges are a given wherever she is.
OP
My view of things is that this industry has its problems regardless, those problems might be worse at Job B but at least Job B offers more of what I want than Job A?
I’m not opposed to waiting for Job C, but it might take a long time. Is a bird in the hand worth two in the bush?
Anon
Another laundry question inspired by the post above. I now have a washing machine which offers a cold wash cycle. In my head, that sounds like a great solution for delicate clothes and envi-friendly overall. But – does it remove the light sweat and dirt? We’re talking office clothes, no kids, no hard stains. What is your experience?
Heavily stained or workout clothes would go for a separate wash cycle (40C).
Thanks!
Anonymous
Just make sure your laundry detergent works well with cold temperatures. I keep a separate bottle for cold water wash because mine didn’t.
Anon
It depends. When I lived somewhere with normal water, cold wash was fine. When I moved to a place with really hard water, still with the same washing machine and detergent, I had to switch to using warm and use more detergent to get my clothes clean. My shirts literally still smelled when I took them out of the wash. The warm cycle is fine, though- it’s basically lukewarm, nowhere near hot.
Anon
Just adding, this was with the Tide cold water detergent, so that definitely wasn’t the issue. I’ve since switched to Tide Free, which is also supposed to work fine with cold water.
Anon
You’re right, of course – depends on detergent compatibility and the water hardness. Will give it a try with next batch ;)
edj3
I wash everything in cold water. That includes running clothes, CrossFit clothes, towels, sheets, normal clothes. Everything. I do sort by color and use Oxyclean (we have really hard water).
I also line dry a lot (all workout clothes, some regular clothes).
Anonymous
I was everything on cold except sheets and towels.
anonshmanon
re: workout clothes, I think that it’s more important to get changed out of sweaty clothes promptly, and let them dry fully, rather than stick them into a hamper while still damp and letting them fester. That really impacts how hard of a job your washing machine has to do.
anon
Yup. Sweaty workout clothes get draped over the hamper to air dry first.
go for it
+1
pugsnbourbon
And don’t use fabric softener! It leaves a coating on clothes that traps smells.
Anonymous
The only way I can keep my synthetic workout clothes from stinking is to wash them with Hex detergent.
anon
I use cold for most laundry loads, but I still use warm water for whites and keep that load separate from everything else. I know you’re supposed to be able to mix it all if you use cold water, but I have found that whites get dingy when I don’t wash them separately.
Anon
+1
I even like to wash my white clothing in cold most of the time, because I wash all clothing in the delicate cycle, which is usually cold water. I sometimes use a touch of bleach or a whiting agent if needed.
I wash all the white towels/sheets in a “bedding” setting which has warm water.
If I had something obviously dirty, really stinky, it might use a more normal cycle with warm water. But not usually.
Anon
We do 100% of our laundry in tap cold water. I always heard that it’s better at getting stuff out, because it causes the fibers in cloth to constrict (whereas in warm water they swell), leaving more spaces in the weave for dirt and stains and odors to get out. I’m now guessing that’s urban legend ha – even writing that makes me feel a little naive.
Anne-on
I use cold water for everything but our white towels/bathmats which are washed on warm with some bleach thrown in. Crossfit clothes/workout clothes/etc. come out just fine in cold (delicate stuff gets woolite, everything else is tide free and clear). I also use washing soda and vinegar to boost the effectiveness of my detergent and to get some smells out. If things are particularly smelly/gross (dog bed/full day of tennis tournament clothes) I’ll add in a bit of amonia too which does wonders for stink.
anon
Great tips! I fill a spray bottle with rubbing alcohol and spritz the armpit area of stinky fabrics. Ideally before putting it in the hamper but a few minutes before starting the washing machine also works.
go for it
I wash everything in cold water without special detergents and have experienced zero issues.
Anon
OP here: thank you for the replies! I will give cold water a try and see. Can’t believe I feel excited for my next laundry cycle (lol).
Anon
Honestly, it’s the little wins in life that keep you going…. ;)
anonshmanon
case and point: going on the first drive after switching my windshield wiper blades and enjoying how exquisitely well they wipe!