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Updated: Oct 30, 2018 365 Comments · by

Thursday’s Workwear Report: Starburst Sheath Dress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. ck-starburst-dressA black sheath dress is a must for any wardrobe, and this affordable one from Calvin Klein looks great — I always love a good starburst pattern because it adds interest without decreasing versatility. It's available on Amazon in sizes 2 through 16 for $89. The dress comes in purple in plus sizes at Amazon; Macy's has a few more colors in both regular, plus, and petite sizes. Calvin Klein Women's Starburst Sheath Dress Psst: check out our recent roundup of sheath dresses for work, including our 5 Hall of Famers (all still available). Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail [email protected]. (L-all)

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Comments

  1. Anonymous

    Lots of work wear fabric is not recyclable as it is made from blended natural and synthetic fabric or mainly synthetic fabric. It is becoming extremely difficult to find 100% cotton or 100% linen. 97% cotton and 3% spandex shirts cannot be recycled, unfortunately.

    Do you know any brands out there that cater to this that are not too pricey (100$ + for a shirt)?

    • MJ

      Poetry is a British brand that uses all natural fibers. They are a bit pricy, but their stuff goes on sale a fair bit too.

    • Anonymous

      Surprisingly, H&M is doing a fairly good job of this in its “premium” and “conscious” lines. I just picked up a 100% cotton light blue button front and an 95% wool 5% cashmere sweater.

    • Anon

      I’m a mostly cotton wearer too, but have you thought about environmental impacts of all the ironing (maybe starch) that 100% cotton needs to be work appropriate? Genuinely unsure – but I feel instinctively that natural fiber is still the right answer.

  2. Boots, boots, boots

    I have a pair of LaCanadienne Passion flat riding-style boots. They have held up well. But summer has warmed my styling mind (too many Hunters + shorts / sundresses in my rainy SE city) and I cannot think of how to wear these in the fall. Not with pencil skirts? With dresses? This is for work in business casual office.

    Also: booties? I’ve never had (mainly b/c I see fashion bloggers wearing them with skinny jeans). I’m a solid pear, so I don’t think I can do booties with skinnies and be happy. But black booties (something like the Toms booties) + black tights + normal workwear?

    I just cannot think of how to do boots at all and cannot find a work fashion blogger to crib from.

    • Baconpancakes

      Depends on how casual your workplace is, and which booties you buy. I have a pair of Clarks Wessex Azure that I can wear with just about any skirt or dress because the front dips pretty low. I usually do wear black tights with them. Also, just about any bootie can be worn with long trousers.

      The higher cut, flat booties are trickier. For those, I’d only wear them with long pants or casual outfits.

      Flat riding style boots are generally ok for business casual – I’d wear them with pencil skirts. http://dressedaccordinglyblog.com/2012/11/one-winter-white-skirt-five-ways.html

    • (Former) Clueless Summer

      I don’t ever wear boots in the office (booties, yes) but would wear knee-high riding style boots with skirts and dresses outside the office. I like them with thick wool skirts and more casual fitted dresses (I think they look great with a longer dress where there is little gap or something closer to mid-thigh). Booties (mine have a two inch block heel), I wear on casual Friday with dresses and tights. I’ve seen non-lawyers wear black booties (more on the shootie side) with black tights and a different coloured dress, and it’s a look I really like for business casual.

    • Bonnie

      I wear black Toms booties with black tights and dresses on more casual days to work. I wear booties with skinny jeans most weekend days. You can balance the look with a longer and looser top.

    • CX

      I find the trick to ankle boots and hips/muscular legs is to buy booties that are low cut enough or even curve down in the front, so they don’t shorten your leg length. I wore my Lucky Brand Banda Booties so much last year that I bought them in two additional colors. I’m wearing them in black, with black tights, and a black Boden dress today and it looks thoroughly professional for a business casual office.

      I also wear black, flat, knee-high boots with dresses to work, but its definitely a more casual look.

    • Macademia

      I wish I could find a pear-shaped blogger to get (realistic) work outfit ideas from. My office is largely business casual as well with some more formal days thrown in.

  3. "Diversity questions"

    For an upcoming professional conference where I will be a panelist, I was asked to answer a set of “diversity questions” including race/ethnicity, LGBTQ status, and whether I have a disability. The questions were clearly not aimed at assessing interest in special programs for underrepresented groups or providing accommodations for disabilities, merely at labeling panelists. The questions did not appear to be part of any sort of legitimate research effort either. I have participated in dozens of academic and professional conferences and have never been asked anything like this before. It felt very intrusive and made me uncomfortable. Why on earth would the conference organizers do this, and is this a trend I should expect to see more of in the future?

    Please do NOT highlight this post in “recent threadjacks of interest.”

    • Cb

      I think conference organisers are increasingly sensitive to including speakers from diverse groups and ensuring that they don’t get called out for having “manels”, they probably need to compile a report post conference about the demographic makeup of speakers.

    • Anon

      They just want to score diversity points. Unless there is a line-up of events targeted specifically based on your responses to the survey, it’s a cheap way to virtue-signal without actually being inclusive.

    • Blue Anne

      They probably just want to start compiling diversity stats.

      Where is the conference? A questionnaire including all of these things is standard in the UK.

      • Sarabeth

        No. Other people will assign you a racial category, and you will draw benefits or disadvantages from that assignment. This kind of faux-colorblindness may be well-intentioned, but its effect is to deny the reality of discrimination that people of color experience.

    • Anonymous

      They would do it because there is pressure on conference organizers to have more diverse panels, and information on the diversity of panelists is useful for those efforts. Obviously?

    • Anon

      Why not ask the conference organizer what the purpose is? There may be a reason that is not obvious to you

    • Anonymous

      I also feel that is intrusive. They should mark that section as “optional” for answering, and even if they don’t, I would just leave it blank.

    • SD

      They’re doing this in an effort to be “good,” but doing it in a way that is even more othering. The road to hell is paved with good intentions…

    • Anonymous

      Fundraiser here. I increasingly see this with grant applications that ask for staff and/or Board of Directors composition. I think its coming from a good place as a means of ensuring diversity, but it is intrusive. For instance, someone may not feel comfortable disclosing their LGBTQ or disability status.

      • Anonymous

        Yeah – why not make it optional? Seems intrusive to demand.

        In hiring, sure – in some states at least there are laws that employers must offer candidates the option to disclose their disability status. There’s still a yawning gulf between what people are comfortable disclosing/ a culture that empowers people to make that disclosure, vs the best intentions of companies.

    • Ally McBeal

      Is this an ABA conference? As a semi-frequent organizer of ABA panels, I will tell you that the ABA requires that the panel have gender diversity and one panelist who is disabled, LGBTQ, or minority. I find it very intrusive as well, though I understand it is coming from a good place and I firmly support the mission of diversifying panels. I don’t know exactly how you should respond – but I can tell you that it will be enormously helpful to the coordinator of the panels if you can respond, because the organizers are just trying to make sure that the panel is good to go.

      • "Diversity questions"

        Not ABA but related, so now it makes more sense. I am now even more offended–they don’t want me because of what I have to say, but because I help them fulfill a quota.

        • Ally McBeal

          I have had panelists decline to state their “diversity characteristics” before, but I always met the requirements in other ways so I don’t know exactly how the ABA handles it. Hope this helps. I know it feels lousy.

  4. Anonymous

    Any recommended recipes to take to a new mom? I’m going to visit a friend when I get back from work travel and the baby will be about 4 weeks old then. She’s lactose-intolerant and both parents lean away from eating grains, so I would prefer to have something that has those things as optional (cheese could be added or left off, served over rice or cauliflower rice, etc.)

    I usually take cashew and rosemary crusted salmon when I take people food but I feel like new parents might want something that will last longer in the fridge? I’ve heard take things that can be eaten one-handed but I am drawing a blank.

    • AIMS

      What about lentil or butternut squash soup? It will freeze well, is very nourishing and if you make a butternut or tomato soup, she can drink it from a cup which sort of counts as one handed.

      • Sydney Bristow

        I like to add some tart green apple to butternut squash soup. It adds an interesting flavor. The only recipe I use for this though includes cream. But if you make it from a different recipe, just add 1 green apple to when you process the squash.

    • SD

      Look up “almond chicken soup”; recipe is on Martha Stewart. It sounds weird but it’s very hearty, nutritious and can be eaten with one hand. Add lots and lots and lots of extra lime, plus definitely add some cilantro and maybe something for a bit of kick (chili oil maybe??) to break up the creaminess of the almond butter.

    • Jax

      The blog Against All Grains is grain-free and dairy-free. I’m not sure how much time you want to invest, but a little breakfast basket of pumpkin muffins or banana bread (made with almond and coconut flours) would be a nice gift.

    • AnonMN

      I was a fan of quiches/egg bakes that were brought to me. Easy to re-heat and had some good protein.

      • rosie

        Something like that could be made in a muffin tin to make it really easy to grab a single serving you can eat with one hand.

    • Anon

      The best thing we received was a giant fruit tray, veggie tray, and meat and cheese platter. Kept in the fridge for several days, healthy, and easy to graze on with no prep work or clean up.

      • SC

        I second this. I grazed a lot when waking up to feed the baby every 2-3 hours, and I loved receiving fruit salad, chips/veggies and guacamole, and deli meats. Also, some kind of grain-free trail mix that she can grab a handful of at 3 am would be great–it took me about a month to realize that fasting from dinner to breakfast doesn’t make sense when you’re awake half the night.

        • Anonymous

          Do they eat oats? If so, Marcus Samuelsson’s blueberry crunch granola recipe is fantastic.

    • Anonymous

      Try The Kitchn’s pumpkin chili. I make it with butternut squash and it is delicious.

  5. Has anyone else heard back from Nordstrom?

    I wrote earlier that I voiced my disappointment with Ivanka’s products being sold at Nordstrom with the management. They replied with a very nice email, saying that they understood but that they preferred their customers make the decision to buy her products or not.

    Several other commenters also said they would send a message to Nordies; has anyone else heard back? FWIW, I think you need to contact Pete Nordstrom personally (his email is here; I didn’t want to spam it on this site: http://elliott.org/company-contacts/nordstrom/) to get a reply.

    • Beans

      Yes – they sent me a very similar email. I had sent an email to the customer service email address.

    • Bee

      I heard back from the regular customer service email, but maybe I’ll send an email directly to Pete Nordstrom too. Thank you for posting this. Here’s the email response I received:

      We are sorry that we have disappointed you by offering this line. Currently we have no plans to change our business with Ivanka Trump. We do value all of our customers feedback and I will be sure to share this e-mail with our buying team. I appreciate you taking your time to voice your opinion.

    • Anon

      I really don’t like this approach. I agree completely that Trump is horrible, and I similarly won’t buy any more of Ivanka Trump’s products. But I don’t think that we get to dictate what stores do business with her. This seems a little fascist to me, to expect that because we abhor someone, they shouldn’t be able to make a living anymore.

      • cbackson

        Mm, it’s not dictating, though – customers have the right to indicate their preferences. And private business have the right to elect not to carry a brand because of controversy associated with it (or to continue to carry it). If you’re Nordstrom, wouldn’t you rather hear this from customers before they start boycotting you?

      • CJM

        I agree, the hypocrisy is obvious. We were so upset for Lands End for apologizing for having Gloria Stienham on the cover, but it is ok to have Nordies pull Ivanka’s line. Why, because only liberal views are ok?

        • anon

          It has nothing to do with the fact that he’s Republican, and suggesting that it does is intentionally obtuse. Condemning sexual assault is neither liberal nor conservative.

          Trump bragged or joked or whatever you want to call it about sexual assault against women. During the debate, Anderson Cooper asked Trump if he recognizes that the acts Trump described are sexual assault. Trump refused to answer. Instead, Trump insists that this is “locker room talk.” He refuses to acknowledge that touching a woman in a sexual way without her consent is sexual assault. By refusing to make this acknowledgement, he is tacitly condoning acts that constitute sexual assault. And Ivanka is one of his main supporters. THAT is why people are writing to Nordie’s. Not because he’s a Republican.

        • Sydney Bristow

          It has nothing to do with the fact that he’s Republican, and suggesting that it does is intentionally obtuse. Condemning sexual assault is neither liberal nor conservative.

          Trump bragged or joked or whatever you want to call it about sexual assault against women. During the debate, Anderson Cooper asked Trump if he recognizes that the acts Trump described are sexual assault. Trump refused to answer. Instead, Trump insists that this is “locker room talk.” He refuses to acknowledge that touching a woman in a sexual way without her consent is sexual assault. By refusing to make this acknowledgement, he is tacitly condoning acts that constitute sexual assault. And Ivanka is one of his main supporters. THAT is why people are writing to Nordie’s. Not because he’s a Republican.

    • RR

      I did hear back, and the response was very similar. They did say that they did not carry Donald Trump’s lines but that they had no plans to change their relationship with Ivanka. I thought it was a professional response, and I do see their position even though I personally disagree.

      Someone posted a day or two ago with thoughts that perhaps there were reasons that Ivanka was afraid to stand up against her father, and I had not considered that angle. While I will not buy her products personally and am happy to see, for example, CapHillStyle discontinue her featuring of such items, I am going to give further consideration to my feelings on the matter.

      • Maizie

        >perhaps there were reasons that Ivanka was afraid to stand up against her father
        Interesting angle. It would not be easy to resist against that bully up close and personal. Trump has 70 years of experience in forcing his will upon all circumstances, objects, and other people in his world.

    • anonypotamus

      I emailed the regular customer service address and received the following response:

      “Thank you for reaching out to us. We value all of our customers’ feedback. We are sorry that we have disappointed you by offering this line. I will be sure to share this with our buying team.”

      I appreciated getting a response and maybe if enough comments are received, Nordstrom will reconsider its position.

    • busybee

      I really like the Nordstrom response actually. They are giving consumers a choice. I’m all about personal choices and decisions, and I appreciate that I can choose to buy what I want, and others can choose to buy what they want. I personally abhor Trump and will not purchase anything Ivanka the next time I go shopping, but that doesn’t mean I should dictate to all other shoppers that they must avoid Ivanka’s line. My personal viewpoint shouldn’t prevent others from buying what they want.

    • Anonymous

      I love Ivanka Trump clothing. Thanks for the link. I am going to email Pete and tell him to keep her stuff.

  6. Anon.

    Looking for a lightweight fall jacket that looks somewhat stylish (not a full on rain jacket), appropriate to wear to work, and could fend off a few drops of rain but maybe not a downpour. Does such a unicorn jacket exist?

    • BabyAssociate

      I have such a unicorn! It’s a belted J Crew trench with a nice deep hood…alas now I look at the website and I see no such thing :(

      • Sydney Bristow

        I have this too and also love it. One with the hood and one without because they are different sizes. The hood is actually really nice. It comes forward enough to shield the face some and can be tightened.

    • Anonymous

      I have something a lot like the Columbia Women’s Take to the Streets Trench that is lined but light and water resistant without being shiny.

    • MJ

      I LOVE the Insulated Girl on the Go Trench from Eddie Bauer. It comes in several colors, is warm but not stifling, is less “crinkly” than a normal rainjacket because it’s lined in polar fleece, and it’s totally appropriate. And it can hold its own weather-wise. And it comes in Petite, Tall, Plus.

      It’s a great jacket.

      • jlg

        Girl on the Go line is awesome. I have the Trench with the removeable liner and it is amazing. It has a hood and is actually waterproof. With the liner, it is good until around the freezing mark. It has a zipper and snap-close storm flap so wind stays out. Only thing that would make it better was if quilted liner could really be worn as a separate coat. It has replaced pretty much everything other than my actual winter coat. And they have some good sales.

    • anon-oh-no

      I have a red burberry trench style rain coat this fits this bill. its awesome. it has a removable liner that helps when its colder and it has a hood. I’ve had it for about 6 years and it still looks awesome.

    • NYCer

      Barbour waxed jackets would seem to fit the bill. Mine gets a lot of use at this time of year.

  7. anonymous

    Does black really look good on everyone, or do some of you think that it doesn’t flatter some skin tones?

    • Anonymous

      I think it works with most coloring, but you may need some simple classic accessories for it to look really chic and the cut/length needs to be flattering for your body shape with appropriate footwear.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I think black is pretty universal. I do think that if you’re more used to wearing, say, earth tones, it can be pretty jarring to see yourself in black.

    • greeneyed

      It really washes me out (ashy brown hair, green eyes, Caucasian yellowish skin tone). I try not to wear it near my face and definitely need makeup when I do. Brown is my preferred neutral.

    • Anonymous

      Also washes me out. Caucasian olive-toned with ashy brown hair, brown eyes. It makes me look pale. I look good in some other “difficult” colors though – orange, red, yellow.

    • CountC

      I think black looks harsh on me, so I avoid it on the top. Black pants and skirts are fair game. Red hair, pink-undertone fair skin, hazel eyes.

      • Anonymous

        That’s interesting, because I have the same coloring and get complimented all the time when I’m wearing black (admittedly, it’s usually said with a tone of surprise).

        White is what I can’t/won’t wear.

        • CountC

          My perception could be off! I have a black sheath dress that is in regular rotation, but I soften it by wearing a cardigan or blazer in a color of some sort. I rock a true white blazer on the regular though . . .

    • Parfait

      I think it’s starting to look less good on me as I age. I’m wearing more charcoal and navy now. Still looks good but it’s not the slam dunk win it used to be.

    • Legally Brunette

      Black is “supposed” to look good on me (medium brown skin, black hair) but it looks terribly harsh and I never feel my best. I have since given away all of my black suits (charcoal is much more flattering on me).

      If you know your “colors”, black looks best on winters supposedly. I think I’m more of a spring, so it’s way too harsh.

      • CKB

        Spring here. Black does not look good on me. I still wear it sometimes, but try to make sure the neckline isn’t too high, and I wear a necklace in a flattering colour to help offset the harshness of the black.

        I’ve actually never heard anyone say black is u iversally flattering.

    • P

      My husband is a summer. He looks great in white, grey, navy and light blue. Black is terrible on him.

  8. BabyAssociate

    Any recommendations for a good weekend travel bag? I have a great Heys hard shell carry-on, but I’m a light packer, definitely don’t need something that big for a weekend. I usually use a Longchamps Le Pliage tote, but I think I want something with more…structure? Internal storage?

    Note: I realize I’m pretty much describing the Lo & Sons OG/OMG, which I did order and am now returning. I don’t know why, but I just didn’t love it, something about it just reminded me of a giant diaper bag.

    • AIMS

      I really like my lesportsack weekend bag. It’s not structured but there are internal and external pockets.

      • RR

        Same. I also have an Lo & Sons Catalina that I really like. I use it primarily as a beach bag, but I have also used it as a weekender.

    • Cb

      I’ve been using a dakine bag (shaped like a large le pliage bag) for 2-3 day trips but pack my stuff in cubes and pouches which keeps everything tidy.

        • Sydney Bristow

          I have a set of Eagle Creek regular packing cubes and a set of their newer compression cubes. I love them both. The regular cubes are great for organization and keeping your stuff separated and easy to find. I usually put my underwear, socks, etc in one and my tops in another. The compression ones that are still cube-shaped (not the sack ones) were great on a recent 2 week trip. I was able to get a bunch of sweaters and tops into one and then really compress it down. My whole 2 week trip wardrobe including wedding, national park, and football game attire fit in my smaller suitcase that can technically be carried onboard (although I always check it).

          • BabyAssociate

            I have compression bags that I’ve used for longer trips and moving, didn’t even know they existed as cubes. What a great idea, I’ll have to check it out, thanks!!

    • Me too

      I’m looking for something similar (I also usually use my Le pliage!) and was thinking about the everlane weekender bag. Anyone have any thoughts on it? Good quality?

      • Shopaholic

        An ex boyfriend of mine had it and I loved it. Can’t speak to how well it held up, although it did outlive the relationship :P

        I have a lululemon bag that I think is a bit big for daily use and I use it for overnight/weekend trips. They usually have bags that size in stock and it’s really durable. (incidentally, it was a gift from an ex about 7 years ago and has outlasted many relationships…)

    • Anon

      I was thinking of trying out one of the Samorga internal organizer cubes for my Longchamp. They seem to make them for most high end handbags on the larger side.

  9. Blue Anne

    I actually have this dress in purple! I just picked it up on sale at Elder Bierman a few weeks ago – and I need to mend it. The seam right below the zipper unraveled, leaving a slit that shows off a good inch and a half of my super awesome granny panties. Not ideal.

    It’s not tight or anything – I didn’t rip it. It’s a great dress otherwise, but it’s super annoying to have to mend it after only a few wears.

    • Anon100

      I bought the purple version of the dress just a couple weeks back, and love it! It fits well and since I rarely wear dresses to work (I work in engineering/construction), I hope this dress works when I have to actually dress up for meetings.

  10. Cleaning

    Does anyone else not really see the point in cleaning floors frequently? It is starting to feel like such a waste because it looks dirty again within a day. My cat sheds/tracks footprints everywhere, dirt gets in from outside (we take off our shoes at the door, but still), or dust seems to magically build up right away. Is there any health benefit to cleaning more frequently or does all the dirt/bacteria just regenerate so fast that I may as well only do it occasionally?

    • Anonymous

      I use Bisell Symphony Pet which steam mops and vacuums at the same time. This saves a considerable amount of time and sanitizes the floor. I do it about once a week, usually on the weekend. No one has time to do this during the week.

      • h2go

        How good is this vacuum? We’re in the market for one. We have a black lab that sheds a fair amount. We also don’t have a “landing” really when you come into the house so leaves are starting to track in. I just need a good, solid, reliable vacuum.

    • Anonymous

      What do you mean by frequently? We do daily before bed for vacuuming but we’ve also had a mouse problem in the past and keeping on top of todder crumbs is important. Pre-kids and no pets – probably vacuumed twice a week.

      • anon

        Wait wait wait. You vacuum… DAILY??? The whole house or like spot-vacuuming with a handheld?

        • Anonymous

          Not the whole house – the kitchen and family room area on the main floor with hallway area/front porch added every second day. Probably 500sq ft in room size and all hardwood? Kids don’t play/have food in their bedrooms – they are just for sleep so they don’t need daily vacuuming. We use a regular dyson but I’m thinking of getting the handheld dyson with the floor attachment – we’d do a Roomba but there’s one step down from the kitchen to family room.

          • Anonymous

            we used to sweep but found it didn’t get crumbs in the same way and not much faster than vacuuming

          • Jdubs

            Same with Kids and a previous mouse problem. Kitchen gets vacummed after meals. Dyson hand held was the best investment. I actually had an electrician add an outlet in my pantry just to hang it up and have easy access to the kitchen so crumbs get vacuumed up ASAP. Depending on how messy dinner was we usually follow up with a wet swiffer, then it gets mopped on the weekend/or when cleaning person comes.

          • Anonymous

            fwiw, we never really vacuum in between cleaning service visits and we have kids. Some people just live with a messy house during the baby/toddler years.

          • Beth

            I have a 3 year old and a 3 month old. We don’t vacuum between cleaning service visits unless there is a major spill (sand in shoes taken off over rug, I’m looking at you!).

            I sweep our kitchen floor daily because it is littered with crumbs.

            When we had a dog I’d vacuum his “high traffic” room (family room) every other day. Maybe a quick vacuum up of the swept kitchen pile.

    • CPA Lady

      Get a roomba and program it to run daily. It’s not perfect, but it’ll get a bunch of stuff up.

    • Gift?

      We have multiple cats so I know what you mean. But we also have a baby that just learned to crawl so he ends up visibly filthy if I don’t vacuum at least twice a day. Before that started, I would just do it once a week and use a hand vac for any stray crumbs from dinner or the litter box, which doesn’t seem too frequent to me.

    • anon8

      I vacuum my kitchen floors and then use a steam mop about every other week. In between, I’ll just sweep with a broom. I’ll vacuum the carpet on the same schedule. I have three cats and it can be tough keeping up with them. I don’t have kids so I’m not that concerned about having the floor clean all the time.

    • Anonymous

      We have a dog and other than cleaning up a spill, we only have our floors cleaned when we our biweekly cleaning service comes. We have hardwood in the kitchen, dining and entryway, tile in the bathrooms and carpeting in the rest of the house. Our floors are not visibly dirty and I walk around our house barefoot without my feet showing any dirt. I recommend 1) having them deep-cleaned periodically, since it’s much easier for clean floors to say clean, 2) not wearing shoes in the home and wiping down pets’ feet whenever they come in from the outside, and 3) not having floors that are white/cream so dirt is less obvious :)

    • anon

      Before I got a cleaning service I would clean the floors… basically never. Once every other month tops? I’d use a hand vac for hair in the bathroom, kitty litter, or cat fur on the couch, and obviously clean up any kitchen spills. But yeah that’s about it. I’m still alive. If the floors looked dirty, I never noticed. Maybe I just have a high tolerance for such things.

      • Sydney Bristow

        I’m similar. The Roomba runs once a week and I clean up any spills as we go along. I can’t remember the last time I mopped. We don’t wear shoes past our entry hallway. The bottom of my feet don’t look dirty, but I might just have a higher tolerance too.

      • Anonymous

        Me too. My mother was visibly horrified by my floors so I got a cleaning lady. They are better now!

    • KT

      I have terrible allergies, so if I don’t keep the floors clean, my eyes water and I get hives.

      So we vaccuum every day, both the hardwood and carpets, then use a Swiffer 3 times a week to mop the hardwood floors and bathrooms

    • pugsnbourbon

      Our house is split 50/50 between hard and soft flooring. The kitchen gets swept daily/every other day and I use a spray cleaner and microfiber cloth 1-2 times a week. I vacuum the carpeted areas once a week, though I really should do the rug under our dining room table more often. We don’t eat there very often, but we made the mistake of getting a dark-blue rug with a light-gray dog … it gets pretty grody.

    • Anonymous

      I have a large, fluffy white shedmonster. I’ve learned to live with the drifts of hair. I try to vacuum/swiffer once a week, mop the kitchen maybe every month. After that there are diminishing returns for me: I could vacuum every day, but then my dog walks across the room and the fluff drifts are immediately back. Not worth it.

      • Anon

        Any chance you have a pyrenees? “Large, fluffy white shedmonster” and “drifts of hair” sounds just like our pyrs :)

    • CountC

      I have all hardwoods and get grossed out by bits. I have two cats and a small dog. I spot sweep/handvac throughout the week and wet clean every weekend.

  11. Gift?

    We’re invited to attend a milestone birthday party of a woman my husband sometimes does business with. It’s going to be held in a restaurant/lounge but isn’t a sit down dinner. Question: do we bring a gift and if, yes, what? I’m assuming that birthday person will be footing the bill for the whole party so something feels appropriate & H is no help.
    Second question: what would you wear? Dresscode says “party dress” and it will be on a Saturday night.

    • Anonymous

      Bring a bottle of wine or fancy candle. Party dress = c*cktail attire – they don’t want people in jeans and t-shirts

      • Gift?

        Wow, this seems to be a consensus! But if everyone does this, isn’t the celebrant going to be coming home with 50 bottles of booze? I’m probably overthinking this….

        • Walnut

          50 free bottles of booze is something to celebrate! (I was given a wine shower instead of a traditional bridal shower. All of the random wine was put to excellent use.)

          • Senior Attorney

            We registered for our wedding on Amazon dot com and more than half of our registry items were bottles of wine. Gotta love it!

        • Senior Attorney

          You say “coming home with 50 bottles of booze” like it’s bad thing…

  12. maternity pants

    Anyone have recs for good maternity pants? I’m looking for stretchyish ankle pants and striking out. I’d really like to get the J Crew pixies, but the mat version is out of stock in any size that would remotely fit me. I tried a pair from gap that was over the belly style and I just felt like they were falling down all day. So I guess I prefer the under-bump variety. I’d really appreciate any recs!!

    • Gift?

      Over the bump, but stayed up well on me: Loft. I really liked them. Mine were from last year but they should have something similar now.

    • CPA Lady

      I had the old navy pixie, which I liked a lot. I had the under the bump style. Over the bump never worked for me, no matter what point I was in my pregnancy.

    • MJ

      Also consider calling JCrew and putting in a “We will find it” order. They can try to track down any versions in your size, in any store. It’s a cool hidden thing they do, if you ask. It works if you are really coveting a certain item.

    • Anon.

      Never found them. Ended up wearing leggings and tunics and dresses. I hated the way the Pixies fit me and the Gap ankle pants were atrocious on me! If someone knows of such pants please post!

    • 37 weeks

      Check out Seraphine – worked for me from week 13 to 36 (now 37 weeks and no pants fit comfortably, not even yoga pants).

    • Double-Bingo

      Maybe try folding over the panel (giving a thicker waistband) until you get bigger? I got a pair of Gap maternity ankle pants on ThredUp, and they might be the most comfortable pants I’ve ever owned. I fold the top of the panel down, since I’m not very big yet, and found that they stay up just fine.

  13. Anon

    This is random, but I just discovered slips. My mom made me wear them with church dresses when I was a kid, but I haven’t worn one since and never understood the point of them. A friend of mine recommended them for static prevention, so I got one and today I’m wearing it with a wool skirt. The skirt is lined, but I have very sensitive skin and could still feel the wool through the lining and at the waistband. The slip keeps me from feeling any wool at all and makes the skirt so much more comfortable. It hasn’t gotten cold enough for tights yet, so I don’t know how it’ll do on static, but I just thought I’d put this out there in case anyone finds it useful. I got the Vasar&tte adjustable waist half slip on amazon. It was $8. The “adjustable” waist = a band of stretchy lace so you can wear it anywhere on your waist or hips without it uncomfortably digging in. What other magical clothing items are there out there that I know nothing about?

    • KT

      strapless longline bras–they provide more support than normal strapless bras without slipping

      jockey slipshorts prevent chub rub and aren’t hot

      wear two bras when you want your chest to resemble a shelf :)

      • SD

        I’ve been searching for a strapless longline bra for years!! One with a very low back. Any suggestions?

        • Anonypotamus

          I’ve seen several long-lines at Bravissimo.com. They cater to DD+ sizes so this may or may not work for you.

    • rosie

      I picked up a slip at Loehmann’s in one of my last trips there before it closed. Agree, awesomeness. One thing I didn’t realize is that it’s reversible. It has a v-neck, and I put it on backwards by accident last time I wore it, but then I realized it can be worn that way if I don’t want the v-neck in the front.

    • ELS

      Are you regularly wearing camisoles? Because they are my magic item. So much smoothing, even with just a regular cotton one!

      • Anonymous

        What are your favorite camisoles, particularly the loose ones that act like a slip rather than the shapewear kinds?

        • trefoil

          I wear camisols under everything! Jockey Tactel ones are my favourite (the ones that are more cotton-feeling than the slippery ones) but I have a pack of men’s undershirts that i wear under white or t-shirts, too.

      • Runner 5

        Yes! I only just picked up on this last year. I wear ones from M&S that have a little stretch lace trim that’s less than half an inch wide, which also forms the straps. I like them because they’re neither “lacy” nor completely plain and utilitarian.

    • pugsnbourbon

      Not technically clothing, but if your shoes aren’t super supportive, invest in some of those gel insoles or heel or ball-of-foot cushions.

  14. LawChick

    Re Donald Trump’s comments: “I’m offended as a man. I’m not offended as a husband or a father, I’m offended as a guy,” Tom Hanks.
    That is all.

    • anon

      I really needed this today, thank you. Apparently #repealthe19th is a thing now. I just… can’t anymore.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, Trump supporters started that hashtag after Nate Silver released those maps showing Clinton would win 458-80 if only women could vote, and Trump would win 350-188 if only men could vote. There are women tweeting #repealthe19th unironically. Crazy how stupid some people can be.

      • Sydney Bristow

        My husband mentioned this last night and I thought he was joking. That’s really a thing now? I just can’t even with this election cycle anymore.

        • Ginjury

          I don’t think it’s actually a thing. I saw the article and took a look through the trending feed and I think two twitter trolls said it to stir the pot and then everyone else seems to just be responding to it.

          • Sarabeth

            It’s actually been an alt-right thing for awhile now. I mean, those people are white supremacists who think we should have a monarchy, so perhaps not surprising that they don’t believe in women’s suffrage. But it’s definitely out there.

        • nona

          Based on my brief foray re vox(?) into this…

          The 538 blog had electoral maps to show how voting breaks down by gender, I think to illustrate that T’s problem with women is a big problem. T Jr. tried to spin it as only men should vote and the 19th should be repealed. I’m not sure how he expects to gain such a supermajority, so it just really becomes another “T hates women” story.

          • fdaafd

            I think T Jr. just saw a map that showed dad winning and didn’t really look into where it came from or what it was. And then clearly some of T’s followers are deplorable enough that #repealthe19th became a thing.

            They can’t seriously mean this. Can they?

        • Anonymous

          It’s a “joke” but like…in no universe is it actually funny or appropriate. Because it’s so hilarious when the people in power who literally created our system of governance mock the people who only earned the right to vote in 1920.

        • AIMS

          I mean there are people at Trump rallies wearing t-shirts that say it’s too bad that HRC wasn’t married to OJ.

  15. Senior Attorney

    Travel threadjack: With the pound taking a nosedive, Lovely Husband has suggested that we spend New Year’s in London! So fun! Neither of us has been for years (like, 40 years) and we aren’t familiar with the various neighborhoods. Where would you ladies recommend staying? We plan to see some shows, do a few museums, shop a little, sit in a lot of pubs, and generally wander around and relax and take in the city. Would also do a day trip or two if there were something particularly awesome.

    Suggestions re: hotels? Restaurants? Other must-do things? Thanks in advance!

    • Anonymous

      I stayed in the Cavendish Hotel and really liked it. Not particularly cool or especially fancy, but very nice and easy to walk to all the big sites and shopping.

    • Anonymous

      Fun! I was in London for New Year’s once and it was a blast. We watched the fireworks from a bridge over the Thames. I don’t really have specific recs because it was almost 15 years ago now, but it was a fun trip. It’s chilly, though…especially if you’re coming from SoCal!

      • Spirograph

        I did this… Almost 10 years ago now. With the caveat that I hate crowds, I thought it was awful, though the fireworks are indeed great. It’s every bit as crowded as nyc Nye looks on tv and the crowd control measures meant it took another 2+ hours to get back to our hotel a few blocks away. I’m sure there are some delightful restaurants with a view of the river/Eye that will be in your budget, and I’d definitely go that route vs watching from the street.

        London is wonderful, though. Enjoy!

    • MJ

      I would check out TimeOut London. A lot of bars and restaurants do prix fixe deals on NYE and they can be a bit of a ripoff.

      I have a list of London recs–if you email me at babyhenryshower at the mail service of goog, I will reply.

      Also ALL THE SHOPPING.

    • Scarlett

      Fun! I’ll be there too for New Years! Check out One Fine Stay – I’ve used them before in London and they’re apartment rentals in different neighborhoods. Last time I stayed in Notting Hill (because it was pretty) and this time we are staying somewhere in north London (not sure where exactly, H picked this one). Anyway, I like having a flat and this company leaves linens and things so it’s a little more reliable/ hotel-esqe than airbnb.

      • trefoil

        Thanks Scarlett! I was just coming up to ask for apartment-finding recs. We’re going in March.

    • KateMiddletown

      I just heard on NPR that Harrods items are sooo much cheaper in London than US. Enjoy the shopping!!

    • Mindy

      same day cheap wicked tickets!! front row seats!

      eat something at Ottolenghi!

      borough market

      ps. the sun sets at like 3pm. :(

    • MargaretO

      If you go eat at Ottolenghi please report back with every single detail. I was last in London almost a decade ago so I don’t have any up to date recommendations, but the Tate Modern in incredible and probably my favorite museum I’ve ever been to, that is my biggest must see. I’ve heard that some of them have closed recently :( but wandering around the book stores on charing cross road is really great. This sounds like an amazing trip and I am jealous!

    • Anon

      I can’t be the only one here who is so, so jealous and full of admiration for SA and LH’s relationship, can I?

      • Suburban

        I’m happy for sa and lh.

        Didnt she once have to explain to him that white men are not,in fact, the most marginalized people in society? Iirc, he came around quickly, and he seems otherwise very sweet. I’m not trying to disparage him, but that’s not a conversation I’d ever want to have with my spouse. So maybe be happy but not jealous. No one’s perfect.

        I hope you don’t take offense to this SA. I hope you have a blast in London.

      • Wildkitten

        I’m really happy for her but… not much jealous. I’m naive enough to still hope there are opportunities for all of us to find relationships that make us as happy as LH makes SA.

    • Anonymous

      When I was there in July I stayed at the Ace Hotel Shoreditch. It’s definitely trendy/cool, if that’s what you’re after. The neighborhood was neat, with lots of food trucks/stalls, a wonderful weekend market, etc.

    • SoFlaAtty

      So glad you asked!!! Stay at The Corinthian – expensive but totally worth it, esp. if you get the AmEx platinum deal. Right on the Thames so you’ll see all the fireworks etc. The other choices for me would be a hotel by Green Park Station like Dukes, The Washington Mayfair, the Cavendish, Browns or the St. James’ Club. That’s Picadilly so the shopping is Regent Street, Bond Street etc. Just wander the arcades and pop in at the old pubs. Half Moon Street, Curzon Street etc. are all great for wandering with good pubs. The Tate Modern is great. I love the London Museum. Green with envy. My family is coming to the US this year otherwise I’d be heading home for the Holidays because it’s what I crave – curled up in an armchair with a good whiskey in front of the fire in the local pub having trekked through the woods and fields covered in snow to get there – pure bliss.

    • Runner 5

      My London hidden gems are the Museum of London and Postman’s Park, which conveniently are right next to each other. Inside of Postman’s Park is the Memorial to Heroic Self Sacrifice which most people have never head of but it’s very poignant.

    • baby litigator

      If you are into English high tea, the best place to go is the Savoy. Hands down. The last time I was in London, we went to the Savoy for tea, then put our names down for a reservation later that evening at their champagne bar across the hall. I think it is a regular restaurant during the day but turns into a champagne/jazz bar at night and is absolutely magic.

      We also ate at Restaurant Gordon Ramsay and it was excellent, if you are looking for a Michelin star experience.

      If you like coffee, you absolutely should go to Monmouth in the Seven Dials area.

    • Anon

      I love Duck & Waffle for breakfast with a view, Abeno Too or La Polenteria for lunches that are a little fun but very easy pre-theatre, St. Paul’s for nose-to-tail (with a wander through Spitalfields Market). Maltby Street Market and Broadway Market are still smaller and more neighborhoody than Borough Market, but the latter is definitely a tourist destination. Restaurant Story for something fancy!

      Monmouth coffee excellent.

      And if you want something new and a bit hip in East London, going to Every Cloud in Hackney is worth the hop for a cozy cocktail bar with an amazing and very personable bartender pal of mine (who’s won a ton of international awards and just opened his own place!).

    • Amy H.

      Highly recommend any of the Firmdale hotels — I have stayed at the Knightsbridge (great location if you plan to do a lot of shopping at Harrods) and now want to stay at all the others. If you want slightly calmer I’d go for Number Sixteen, near the Victoria and Albert Museum. If you want to be right in the middle of the Theatre District/Covent Garden/etc. then the five “hotels” are closer in: Ham Yard, Haymarket, Soho, Charlotte Street, and Covent Garden Hotels.

      My sightseeing favorites:
      Seconding (thirding) Borough Market; also, seeing plays at the Royal National Theater; the National Gallery; the National Portrait Gallery; and the War Rooms/Churchill Museum.

    • Kate

      Does the idea of seeing Jane Austen’s writing desk, original Beatles lyrics jotted down on the back of an envelope, and the oldest surviving manuscript of the complete Bible, all in one room, surrounded by other documents of equally mind-blowing importance, sound cool to you? Then don’t miss the British Library. For a nerd like me it was worth the plane trip alone.

  16. Anon

    Anyone else paying attention to Russia’s actions recently? I feel like coverage on it is getting lost in the circus that is the US election and Putin’s recent move calling Russian officials to return to Russia is disturbing.

    • Anonymous

      It’s crazy. I’m terrified they are going to somehow hack the election and get Trump elected.

      • Anonymous

        Breathe…

        It’s going to be ok.

        This isn’t a TV movie, although it seems like it sometime.

        It may be time to turn off the radio/stop the web surfing until the election is over.

        It’s going to be ok.

        • anon anon armani

          IF you lived through the Cold War and then the Regan/Gorbachev/Pope JPII era, you might think differently … this is a real statement on the USSR part. All along, it appears that there are intentions to return to that, including grabbing up prior territory.

      • Anonymous

        I’m terrified, too, no matter what condescending anonymous internet commenters say.

        • Anonymous

          That’s too bad…

          Rough way to live. And really bad for your health.

          And you are not alone. My brother is a near basket case, and it makes me anxious now just to be around him. It isn’t good…

          Sometimes people forget how far we have come, regardless of today’s chaos.

    • Anonymous

      that’s sort of why the Russians chose now to carpet bomb Aleppo – it’s no mistake that it happened while the US was too caught up in the election cycle to response in a decisive way.

    • Spirograph

      Yes, the diplomatic showdowns between Russia and the US the last few weeks are incredibly serious. The Syrian people are the big instant losers, but I’m concerned what will happen more broadly if the tensions keep ramping up. And one of the presidential candidates literally said, “I don’t know anything about Russia” in a debate.

  17. Calling the PDX

    I am headed to Portland at the end of the month for a long weekend with my husband. It is our first time there and we have plans to do the usual tourist stuff – winery day, rose garden, zoo, Saturday market, etc. – plus a lot of eating and drinking. The “fanciest” place where we have a reservation for dinner is Beast.

    I hear it is pretty casual out there — more so than, say New York, where I would spend a weekend wearing all black. Will skinnies + boots with a top and a boyfriend sweater or similar be appropriate for most places? Will a trench be too “dressy” to top everything off, or will I be happier with a mac or a Columbia rain sheet?

    Thanks for your help!

    • Sydney Bristow

      What you are thinking of wearing sounds totally fine. Depending on the weather, you might prefer the Columbia shell. Oregon is totally casual, but there is definitely a mix and you won’t stand out as too dressy in jeans, boots, and a sweater. Have fun!

    • Anonymous

      That’s a fine level of formality, but do expect to get rained on. It’s almost guaranteed. If you’re on foot mostly (which you should, pdx is totally walkable) the Columbia with a hood might be better. Also consider waterproof, or least water friendly, shoes.

    • Anonymous

      Skinnies + boots with a top and a boyfriend sweater or similar will be very appropriate. You can literally wear that everywhere, although there will be people dressed more formally (ie, like an east coaster ;) ) at Beast for dinner, so you wouldn’t stand out if you chose to go that route.

      Rain shell is right. Strong second on the waterproof shoes for sight-seeing. I also recommend a collapsible umbrella. Basically, be prepared for it to be raining continuously.

    • Anonymous

      You’ll be completely fine in that outfit, and the trench would normally be great, but we’re battening down the hatches right now in preparation of a major storm…. so you will not regret wearing your rain gear AND an umbrella. Have fun!

  18. Early Voting

    Is Early Voting becoming a thing in the USA election? It was super popular in the Canadian federal election last fall. My FB feed was filled with people posting early voting selfies – I think most people I know actually voted before election day. But it doesn’t seem like it’s such a thing in the US? So much more convenient then having to go on one particular day.

    https://www.usa.gov/absentee-voting

    • Anonymous

      Early is not the same as absentee, but yes, early voting is a thing in the US. I believe ~35% of votes were cast early in 2012 and its expected to be even higher this year.

      • Early Voting

        The link I provided with both absentee and early. That’s a lot more than I expected for early in 2012! I guess people just aren’t into it as a social media thing as much?

          • Early Voting

            We never got stickers in Canada but taking a selfie outside the polling station with the big yellow arrow that says ‘vote here’ really became a thing last fall. We have the same kind of early voting that MidWest anon below mentioned where you just show up and vote – no mailing or extra steps.

          • Wildkitten

            In many places you still get a sticker. In DC you get a super special “I voted *early*” sticker. In most states you just get the regular sticker.

    • anon

      Ime it’s really state-specific. Most states are pretty good about sending absentee ballots to out of state college students, but you have a harder time getting one just because polling is inconvenient, i.e. due to work/childcare. Of course I haven’t tried to get one for many years so it might’ve changed.

      • Early Voting

        I think absentee is totally different though. Those are like the mail in ballots right? Early voting is voting like the regular way just on a different day.

        • Snick

          In my state, early voting is called in-person absentee voting. You can do it at the city clerk’s office in person, but the ballot is the same as an absentee ballot. Both in-person and mail-in absentee voting is quite popular and I do see a lot of social media posts about it.

    • Sydney Bristow

      I’m from Oregon, which has vote by mail for everyone. I miss it desperately. Getting up to be first at the polls so that I can get to work near-ish to my normal time is a pain. Although I do enjoy getting the I Voted sticker. Oregon didn’t include those in the voters packet.

      Another thing Oregon did that I miss is that you’d get a voters guide with details on each person who was on the ballot as well as all the ballot measures you were voting on. There was a page for pro and a page for con if I remember correctly. Here in NY I have to look everything up individually and so many people running don’t even have webs1tes or ways to really tell what their views on the issues are. I feel really poorly informed on a lot of the candidates even though I go out of my way to try and find out. I’m guessing the typical voter doesn’t even try to seek out that information.

    • Ellen

      Yay Kat! This is a beautiful sheathe dress! I wish I could fit niceley into it, but again, much as I try, and even tho I am techniceally a size 2, I do NOT have that kind of body, like Rosa does! And she has 3 kid’s! FOOEY!

      As for the OP, yes, there is early voting, but NOT unless you have a reason — goeing out of the country, getting an operation, or something else. I would LOVE to be abel to vote now, b/c on any given day, I may have to work all day and bill 16 hour’s. Who know’s what my November billeings will need to be NOW? FOOEY! The manageing partner will want me around on the 8th b/c it is early in the month and THAT is the time to work and bill he says. For now, I am in the middel of the month, so I can coast today and tomorrow, but then it is strictley work starting Sunday morning. TRIPEL FOOEY!

    • Anon

      I’m in Nebraska and it is pretty big here (at least in Omaha, I don’t know about the rural areas). I got multiple calls from the Nebraska Dems encouraging me to vote early, asking if I received my ballot in the mail yet, etc.

      • Walnut

        Also Nebraska. Did you pick up your ballot in person or did you request one to be mailed to you?

        • Anon

          Mine was mailed to me, but we had to mail something in requesting them. Ironically I just got a call from the Nebraska Dems asking if I had mailed mine in already. When I told him that I had, he assured me that was the last I would be hearing from them :)

          • Anonymous

            Does Nebraska not have voter ID laws?

            I don’t know if mail-in is an option in Texas (other than for absentee voters), but I would imagine the voter ID laws here would make that option near impossible. Sigh.

          • Sarabeth

            Actually, many states have voter ID laws that don’t apply to absentee voting. This is because voter ID laws are about increasing Republican vote share, and absentee voting usually skews Republican.

        • Not that Anne, the other Anne

          Also The State of More Corn than People.

          I haven’t voted yet, but will be early voting in person, as will quite a few of the people I’ve talked to so far. No sticker when you early vote, though, or at least they haven’t offered them so far. :(

          • Waverly Anon

            It’s some kind of realtor association that provides the stickers (at least in Waverly, NE). So I can see why the stickers don’t get sent in the mail

          • Anon

            OP Anon – I had no idea there were so many Nebraskans on here. We should do a meet up (never thought there were enough of us for that)!

      • Anonymous

        Love seeing all the Nebraskans here :)

        I grew up there but am in Texas now. To anon at 12:16pm, your instincts are correct that mail-in is an option in Texas for certain acceptable absentee reasons only (I used it when I temporarily moved away for school). I believe I had to send a copy of my DL with the request form. But early voting goes on for several weeks and is pretty convenient because you can vote anywhere in the county rather than having to vote at your specific polling location, and I’ve never had to wait in line to vote early. On election day, you can only go to the one site for your precinct, which may not be as convenient if you want to run out quickly in the middle of the day when lines aren’t as long.

    • Anonymous

      It’s a big thing in my Midwestern state. There’s no mailed ballot or anything. You just go to any one of a number of public s!tes (fire stations, grocery stores, local university) and they have the voting machines set up and you cast a ballot just like you would on election day, but you don’t have to wait in a long line.

    • Gail the Goldfish

      I’m in NC; we have early voting and it’s quite popular. They have a number of early voting sites set up and you can vote at any in your county (I think it’s by county).

  19. Anon

    An early voting question — I know it has started in certain states like Ohio, Va (I think) etc. Do those votes get counted now? Or are they counted on Nov. 8 with the rest of them? I feel like all the polls/forecasts will be much more “accurate” if they had an actual “sample” from actual early votes that have been cast — but I don’t know if it works that way.

    • Anonymous

      Like all things election, it’s state by state, but in many states I know they are not counted until the polls close on Election Day. I don’t know of any state that counts them before Election Day but I can’t say for sure there isn’t one.

    • Anon

      Anecdata- I heard early voting may help your party because the party can find who voted already, and take those people off lists to contact with reminders/offering ride to polls=able to save time and conserve volunteer efforts. At any rate I’m voting asap this year!

      • Anon

        I think you are correct. I posted above, but I am in Nebraska and have received 6 calls from the Nebraska Dems in the past couple months. They just called me and I told them I already mailed my ballot. The guy thanked me and told me I wouldn’t be hearing from them again.

    • Baconpancakes

      Annoyingly, Virginia only accepts “valid excuse” early voting – so basically it’s just absentee.

      • G

        Not sure if you’re in NOVA and working in DC/MD, but if so, the “I work out of state” excuse works.

    • Anonymous

      I’m in Oregon, where everyone votes by mail. They do count ballots as they receive them, but obviously they don’t release any interim results. However, we do get our results quite quickly since they are only waiting on a relatively small number on “Election Day”.

  20. Anon

    So I just heard that someone I know (friend of the family) — age 17/high school senior has just asked his girlfriend (age 18 – graduated high school in June 2016) to marry him. They’re not pregnant. They are planning a wedding for June – right after his graduation. OMG. I know it’s not my business so I’m not saying anything about congrats. But WHY!? In 2016!? I know there are TONS of very sweet stories out there about grandparents or parents who got together in high school and married right after and had wonderful lives. But in 2016 – where marriages just aren’t as stable!? In a rural rust belt area where there are exactly great jobs? They both won’t be attending 4 yr colleges– not suggesting that’s a necessity but I think some kind of trade school or AA degree is a necessity in this day and age. Maybe I’m being crazy in my judgment and maybe I’m a tiny bit jealous (bc they found the love of their lives at age 18 and will now grow up together), but I’m kind of stunned that a kid who was having a hard time fitting in just 4 yrs ago, gets his first girlfriend at age 16 and is ready to marry her at age 17.

    • tazdevil

      Perhaps they adhere to some conservative Christian theology like the Duggar family? In such circles, early marriage is considered a cure for pre and extramarital gardening activities.

    • Anonymous

      I agree with the substance of your comment (although also that if this isn’t your kid or sibling you should mind your own business, which you acknowledged) but I just wanted to point out that there’s not much evidence for your statement that “marriages just aren’t as stable in 2016.” Divorce rates are on the decline and have been for years.

      • AIMS

        I think the rates are on the decline because people are marrying later. The rates vary significantly by age, income and education level.

    • Nancy Raygun

      Jeebus, can you even imagine marrying the person you dated in 12th grade?? I’m laughing/horrified at the though. And maybe it’s a religious/cultural thing about pre-marital sex? Although parents are religious and they would’ve gone through the roof if I’d tried to marry someone at that age. My dad even gave me a “look, you’re going to have lots of other lovers, it’s no big deal,” talk at 18.

      • Beth

        I actually could have married the guy I dated in high school. We would probably be divorced by now, since we are in very different life places now (both married and 34, but we’ve kept in touch). It’s interesting to think about, because my husband is very much a “forever fit” in terms of life partner. We’re both business execs and have 2 kids. High school guy did the peace corps, lived in Russia as a reporter for a high profile paper, and has written two novels. No kids for him yet.

      • Betty

        Not exactly the same, but I AM married to the guy I met at 18. We dated for 4 or 5 (its fuzzy now) years and were married after my first year of law school. 16 years, more jobs and moves than I can count, and 2 kids later and we are happily married.

        • CPA Lady

          I’m also married to the guy I met at 18. We dated 4 years, have been married 9. Neither of us are from a conservative religion. We were fortunate to “grow up together” rather than to grow up apart.

        • Anon

          Meeee, too! We met when I was a sophomore and he was a senior. We married after I finished undergrad. We’re successful finance professionals, have two kids, and have been married for eight years. Neither of us are members of any conservative religion, and we had premarital s3x. And lived together in college! We just happen to be from a rural area, and that’s what’s done. In fact, waiting until I finished college was kind of weird for our area. Although so was going to college at all. :)

          • Anonymous

            Same for us. We met at age 14 and were friends during high school. We did not start dating until we went to college and got married once we finished. I am a lawyer and he is an engineer. We have 3 kids and have been married almost 11 years now. We were both raised Catholic, but by college had both (separately decided) to leave the religion. We had premarital s3x and lived together before we were married so that was not the reason we got married at 22. We are also from a smaller town where people got married young. The fact that we waited until we finished college and THEN waited a few more years to have kids was weird for our area also. The fact that I went to law school was also unusual.

        • CKB

          We got married when I was 19 & dh was 20. Had our 22nd anniversary this past summer. We like to say we’re the exception that proves the rule you shouldn’t get married young.

      • anon

        I’m really channeling Ron Swanson here, but, is it really any more or less crazy because they’re young? Some marriages work out and some don’t, even if the marriage happens between two older, more “mature” people.

      • Senior Attorney

        I just went to Lovely Husband’s 50th (OMG how is that even possible!?) high school reunion, and one of his best friends is still happily married to the woman he met when they were in 12th grade. It happens and I think it can be a great, great blessing in life to meet your life partner when you’re young.

        Which is not to say that it’s low-risk, of course.

      • LawDawg

        I married the guy I started dating freshman year of college. Same for my brother. I’ve been married for 28 years and 4 days. Sometimes growing up together is a really good thing. Full disclosure – we were together for 6 years before marriage and another 10 after marriage before kids.

    • fdaafd

      Well the other thing is it’s kinda hard to say that this is the love of their life. Of course it could be, and there’s a risk in any marriage, but that seems very very early and risky. People change in that time right after high school.

    • Baconpancakes

      Current stats show that getting married under the age of 20 leads to a 32 percent divorce rate, which is up from 29 percent 20 years ago. And the most “stable” age to get married – i.e. the least likely to divorce, is in your mid 20’s-early 30’s, for the simple reasons that your brain isn’t fully formed until you’re 25! You go through a lot of personal growth in your early 20’s, and your preferences, ambitions, and beliefs change a lot. It IS possible to find the right person in your teens, but it’s hard. Anecdotally, all of the early marriages I’ve seen ended in divorce, while the friends people who stayed together from high school but didn’t get married until after college or even grad school ended are still together and disgustingly happy.

      I wish them luck.

      • cbackson

        Yeah, the “met young, married later” thing seems to work out. Probably because that means you’ve already weathered a lot of change by the time you tie the knot. My parents met at 17 but married in grad school.

      • Ms B

        +1

        Most of the hub’s high school friends got married right out of high school or during college to their high school sweethearts. All but one of those couples are divorced now. Those of his friends that met in high school and then waited until after college graduation (in some cases even a couple years after graduation) pretty much all are still married.

    • Anon

      OP here — I totally acknowledge it isn’t my business, and I won’t be saying anything at all except congratulations. So it’s better to say it online where no one knows me or them.

      I just think the whole thing is so interesting in a scary kind of way. His parents as well as his aunts/uncles married young — but even that was around age 21-22, after college or towards the end of college. I think you can change a lot in those 4-5 yrs after age 16-17. They are not a super religious family at all — in fact there are cousins who’ve had babies w/o being married and while I’m sure no one was thrilled — no one was cast out of the family or shamed into marrying asap either.

      I know there have been young marriages forever. And maybe it is true that the divorce rate is down. But I just feel like people from 50 yrs ago had more of a sense of “duty” — i.e. I married her, I have to make it work; they didn’t just give up and walk away when it got to hard. I know I’m generalizing and there was divorce then too. But now I feel like there’s more talk about — this isn’t making me happy anymore, we fell out of love, I didn’t get a chance to live alone/date others and I missed out etc. And even if I’m wrong on all those counts — I KNOW that this rust belt state had a LOT more opportunity when his grandparents got married at age 20. Even if you didn’t go to college — you could go down the street to the factories and get yourself a job that would be a lifetime job with benefits and a pension. It just isn’t like that in that area anymore — and these aren’t folks that’ll move for work. So like many in that area — you end up taking whatever jobs are available, which can be rough financially and has an effect on your family life.

      • Anonymous

        Another counterpoint – I know a couple who met in 10th or 11th grade and are still together (though not legally married) with 2 kids, 10 years later. They did a lot of growing up together, and have strong family support. But agree that it’s definitely rare. How mature are they? How much family support do they have?

        What’s different about 2016 vs 1956 is that the economy has completely changed – you do need some kind of post-secondary education or skills training to get by, jobs are less stable, and income has stagnated while the cost of living has ballooned. Do they recognise that? Have they lived on their own out of the home and see clearly what sorts of life challenges they might face?

      • Anon

        Yes you’re being judgy.

        I grew up in a similar area and ran far away, but this is indeed a Thing that happens, particularly in areas that have low college attendance and not many job prospects. Basically, what would you wait for at that point? You’re as established in your “career” as you ever will be, you’re not moving away (and hence meeting a ton of new people), you’ve finished your schooling. If you want to start a family, doing it in your early 20s has a lot of advantages.

        I don’t think stability is a factor at all – people who are going to get divorced will likely do it if they get married at 20 or at 40. I do think those communities tend to have more of a “stick it out” attitude, and be more focused on traditional gender roles, so there’s less of a focus on whether you’re still happy. It’s more like, we made this commitment and we’ll stick it out to the bitter end, whether you feel “fulfilled” or not. And being fulfilled is sort of a pie in the sky idea anyway – it’s not like you’re choosing between marriage and a trip across Europe or something.

        And don’t discount the traditional gender roles – often women are choosing between staying in her father’s house, or starting her own life with her husband. It’s infinitely more appealing to do your own husband’s laundry than it is to do your parents’, and it feels more “adult”. Plus it feeds into the individualistic hard working tendency ingrained in every rural kid since the dawn of time.

        Obviously it wasn’t for me, as I ran away to college (on scholarships that I begged and scraped for, plus working 40+ hours/week) as soon as I graduated. But for people who stay in those communities, it absolutely makes logical, practical, idealistic sense.

    • Legally Brunette

      As a counter, I know a couple that married when they were 20 and they’re happily married now, 10 years later. It does seem extremely young to me but different strokes.

    • Anonymous

      Many of my high school friends married their high school sweethearts and are still going strong in their mid-30s, most with school age kids in the mix as well. However most of those people married in or immediately after college, so they weren’t 18 when they got married.

    • Anon

      Meeting the love of your life at that age – awesome. Marrying at that age!? I don’t get that. If they are the ones for each other, why don’t they think it could last as they make the moves from high school to college? Why the rush? I just think by marrying at age 17-18, one or both of them will forego big things (i.e. an education) for the sake of the marriage or the sake of the finances. Not only does that hurt the economic stability of the marriage, it could also breed some resentment later.

    • Alana

      If the guy had difficulty fitting in as recently as 4 years ago, he may prefer to stick with his current SO than deal with the challenges of being single. It makes perfect sense to me.

      • Anon

        This. Sounds like a guy in a rural area who hasn’t necessarily fit in thru his childhood. That is tough and it’s not like he’s looking forward to college where he’ll meet his tribe or to moving for a dream job; likely he knows he’s staying there with the same people working whatever jobs are available. So now he’s found a girl who likes him enough and is ok with marrying him — so he’s locking it down. See the small town discussion below — in those towns, if you don’t fit in, you are on the outside which can be rough with such a small number of peers. Maybe he’s just happy to have SOMEONE who is interested in hanging out with him (for life!) and who knows maybe being attached to her makes him fit in — as he’s no the loser single anymore, he’s the guy who is already engaged as a senior in HS.

    • Anonymous

      I always assume people who marry young do so because they’re part of religions that tout no sex before marriage and they really just want to have sex.

      • Inside knowledge

        That’s certainly a factor, but for 90% of the people I know who married in their teens or early 20’s, most are still married, with children, and mostly happy together. Most my age are grandparents or will be soon. Most will be celebrating 50th anniversaries down the road.

    • full of ideas

      My high school friend married spring break of our senior year. They are Mormons and wanted to live together… They are still together, 16 years later, but she was super smart and motivated in school but she never went to college or got a job. I think she’s happy but part of her misses out on what could have been different, like a rewarding career

  21. Insurance

    Cross-posting on both sites: debating getting workers’ compensation and employment practices liability insurance on our nanny. As I see it, the former is rather pricy perhaps worthwhile, the latter is cheap but in my opinion unnecessary especially for an at-will employee. Then again, I’m not that knowledgeable about this stuff. Thoughts? What are others doing for household employees? Thanks!

    • AB

      If you have homeowners insurance, it may contain WC coverage for household employees — mine did. EPLI not necessary unless you truly have a Downton Abbey style staff and even then would be optional.

    • Junior attorney

      In many states domestic employees (such as a nanny) do not qualify for workers’ comp. You may want to check out if this applies in your state.

      • Insurance

        Just checked, in my state domestic employees are exempt. Still, it may make sense to opt in.

  22. Baconpancakes

    Is getting more emotional about random stuff a thing that just happens when you get older?

    I’m significantly more in control of my emotions in professional and personal situations, but I was listening to the Hamilton soundtrack the other day and tears were leaking almost the entire time. Same thing at heartfelt movies and commercials. I was crying almost through the entire Rosh Hashanah morning service. Is this normal? I feel like this has been getting more and more intense in the past two years (after I hit 30). And no, I’m definitely not pregnant.

    • Anon

      Happened to me around age 34-35 — and I’m a fairly stoic person. For me though I think it had something to do with going thru a LOT of stress for a yr or 2. It’s like it re-wired me and made me more emotional — along with just hitting that mid 30s age.

      • SD

        Prolonged stress can actually rewire the brain and nervous system! It sounds like you may have experienced adrenal fatigue. Look up ‘HPA axis’- it’s super interesting.

          • SD

            I think so! Brain plasticity FTW! You can look into ‘somatic therapy,’ which often includes things like yoga, mindfulness practices (meditation, breathing), etc. A low dose of an antianxiety med could also be helpful on a temporary basis. You’re basically trying to re-re-wire your body to feel ‘safe’ again, instead of on perpetual high alert, and one way to do that is to practice being present and safe in your body, habitually.
            Source: been consciously rewiring myself from ptsd; this has worked for me.

    • Frozen Peach

      This has definitely been true for me as well– more in control in personal/professional situations, but I tear up at commercials and movies constantly, and at really not-big-deal emotional events.

      I also have always been a huge horror and zombie fan, and suddenly I can’t stomach nearly the amount of gore I used to be able to.

    • cbackson

      Ha, I have always been a super-emotional person, so it is no worse now than it was in the past. Like, I regularly tear up at (i) highly patriotic occasions, (ii) any wedding, even if I just see it from outside as I’m walking by the venue, (iii) pet videos, (iv) anything involving veterans, and (v) emotional moments in church when I’m really feeling my Jesus. I’m also a stress/frustration crier, which means that most people I work with have seen me cry (oddly, this does not seem to have hurt me in the workplace, but maybe it’s because when I am stress crying it is like, “I AM JUST SO FRUSTRATED” not “I am super sad.”)

      • Anonymous

        All of these, and country music. Anything involving intergenerational family stuff…
        I’m good in professional situations, but just about anything else can set me off. My husband has taken to looking at me expectantly in any situation (or during any TV commercial) where I might cry, which typically is the last straw.

        • cbackson

          Country music, especially if it is about lost love, the death of a wife/child, or anything involving a dog.

          So basically, all country music.

      • Anonymous

        I am so mad at the concept of “women should never cry in the workplace” because I have cried at least once at every job I have ever had. It doesn’t make me unprofessional, it means I have human emotions and someone did something to belittle me or piss me off.

    • Anonymous

      I cry through the Hamilton soundtrack too!

      As I get older I don’t think I cry any more or less, but the things that make me cry have changed.

      I used to cry because of personal and professional stresses almost exclusively. I can’t remember the last time I cried because of one of those but I do cry pretty regularly about (i) any wedding, (ii) pet videos, (iii) any commercial with a dad-daughter relationship, (iv) that freaking Amazon lion-dog commercial and (v) omg any time a man cries whether in person, on tv, whatever. That last one is a weird one, but it’s almost Pavlovian.

      • Spirograph

        It took me a few times, but I can now get through that amazon commercial without tears. So freaking cute, though.

    • anonypotamus

      I have noticed this about myself (late twenties), but I attribute it more to finally being truly in touch with my feelings and emotions after lots of therapy helped me realize I numbed all my emotions to cope with my toxic marriage. Once I identified that and started healing during/after the divorce, I have found that I feel all of my emotions much more strongly, but they all feel more real. While I’ve always been someone who cries when angry (which always annoyed me to no end!) I now cry at movies, commercials, and basically anything related to animals.

    • Anonymous

      I’ve always been a crier, but I have noticed it becoming more intense lately (I’m 32).

      And FWIW, I ALWAYS cry through Hamilton. I saw it in January (I got a standing room ticket for $40 which was frankly a miracle) and thought “I’ll probably be fine until Act 2” and then the Schuyler Sisters number started and I spontaneously burst into tears and stayed that way for most of the show.

  23. housecounsel

    It’s currently happening to me. The littlest things, happy or sad, are making me cry. I have been attributing it to the fact that my first kid is going to college in less than a year but now I am wondering if it’s hormonal or something.

  24. Anon

    Anyone grow up in a 2000-3000 person small town (say in central Pa. but I’ll take stories from anywhere)? What’s it like? What are the up and downsides? I see it as a idyllic life, but several people I’ve talked to in real life have warned of a lot of downsides — namely, lack of good jobs/healthcare locally; most people in those towns have lived there their whole lives, are BFFs with adults they grew up with whose parents their parents grew up with etc. so it’s very hard to be an outsider; and there’s a general attitude amongst the “next” generation that if you want to get out — go to a big deal college, get a big deal job in a city — then you aren’t “one of them.”

    Any truth to this? What’s it really like?

    • Anonymous

      Yes, all those downsides plus a lot of racism, xenophobia and fear of “others” who are not straight, white Christians. I imagine this is more true in small towns in red or swing states like PA, but even dark blue states have some areas that are very culturally conservative (far upstate NY, for example).

    • anon

      You’ll find these attitudes in larger-but-still-small towns too. Ime anything under say 100k as long as the town is sufficiently remote from a real urban center. To take your PA example – there are plenty of tiny towns within ~1 hr of Philly that have a small town feel but they’re much more welcoming because they’re accustomed to people moving in and out of town for work. But you get out past Lancaster, you have fewer resources, job opportunities, and not as much movement.

    • Davis

      I grew up in one and really liked it. There were some downsides when I was younger: Lack of social activities (e.g. movie theaters) and everyone knowing your business. I didn’t find those terrible though. I liked my small circle of friends I knew from elementary school through high school. I definitely left for college to get a big city experience. But I also made the choice to come back (or pretty close) after college. I felt like having the choice to leave and then making the choice to come back was important to me and I was accepting the limitations of my town. When I returned in my twenties, it was downsides like commuting a distance to my job and early closing times for shops that bothered me.

    • Anonymous

      Yes. Grew up in one such small town in New England and lived in another in the South. I don’t recommend it. There is a limited pool of friends and activities. You’ll have to drive to do anything, and I love walking in a city. There’s limited shopping, employment, educational, and recreational activities. Most people I went to HS didn’t go to college. They went to the military or 2 year college and stuck around town. That doesn’t mean they stayed friends. You might see someone around, but you don’t really have a close connection other than you knew each other. My HS was 3 towns, and it graduated about 120 people. I’m friends, as in regularly hang out with, 1 of them.

      In both areas, there are many small minded attitudes. Many people haven’t been on a plane other than Disney World. There is a fear of the “other” (whatever that may be) and many “others” (LGBTQ folks comes to mind) simply leave, reinforcing the cycle.

      • Anon

        +1. This is the kind of place where people marry at 18 because they have no other options (to reference a comment above yours). It’s a very insular, sheltered community that fear the “other” to the point of ostracizing and exclusion. Depending on your background, the community will likely ostracize YOU since you didn’t grow up there.

        And think through your values. Usually the schools are beyond terrible (many of my teachers had to take second jobs at McDonalds because pay was so low, and then they would leave) so you have generations of adults with mediocre schooling at best, who don’t necessarily put a lot of value in education beyond “go to school and get decent grades”. You’ll hear a lot of things like “who ever used Physics in their life?? You should take Shop/Home Ec instead.” and “Why would you take Spanish? These people are in America, they should speak OUR language.”

        On the flip side, hard work and grit are prized beyond measure. I think those values have absolutely shaped who I am, and made it possible for me to exceed in college and career even with zero family support. There’s a true pride in one’s work and one’s word, and an appreciation for making things with your hands.

        That wasn’t enough to overcome the a-holes who tortured my best guy friend for being gay, or who literally threw bricks through the windows of the one black family in our town. So I left at 18 and never went back.

        • nutella

          I grew up in a major city but my fiance is from a very small town (not even a stop light, there is one stop sign) and echoes all of these drawbacks. We’ve talked about it recently as we just bought a home in another large city, which was 4x the cost of his sister’s home in their small town. I think the #1 reason for him is what he calls ‘lack of choice’ – there is one grocery store and only one school and not many jobs. If that’s all you want or need, it’s a really nice way to live, but if you want to take AP classes, attend a different religious service, or even shop elsewhere for groceries, you have to drive two towns over.

          • nutella

            Wanted to add that healthcare around there is really something we worry about with his grandparents, someday his parents, and even his sister doesn’t want to have a baby nearby, but I’m not sure how much choice you get in an emergency. Recently, his uncle had a health scare and had to wait 2 days to schedule an emergency procedure because there weren’t enough staff. It was terrifying.

    • ALX emily

      Yes, all those negatives, plus for me (in southside VA) we were far from any airport at all, much less a decent one, and any significant clothes or food shopping – the “city” 30 minutes away didn’t even get a Target/Old Navy until I was in my mid-20s and long gone. And that is in the relatively less poor part of the region – other areas nearby had even fewer services. Some of that might be better now with the internet/prime, but not being able to get anywhere at all without driving is a real downside. Plus there’s just less of everything – only one library, and it doesn’t have much of a selection because there’s not the population to support it, fewer classes offered in the schools because they are smaller and there’s not enough students to justify AP classes (or teachers qualified to teach them), etc.

    • Hail Lady Hirons

      I grew up in a tiny town in the rural south in a solidly red state. The people who stay work at the school, farm or commute to the largest nearby town (of about 15,000) that’s about 45 minutes away. I did the “get out” thing and am very much not “one of them”.

      I didn’t go to the beauty college & am still single & childless in my mid-twenties. All of my friends and even family make fun of my “city lifestyle” and how I’ve lost my accent. To them, I’m obviously a failure because I have no children & am not married (I’m letting the guy get the milk before buying the cow, since my SO & I live together). The KKK was active in my town, for perspective, and everyone is very, very religious & conservative. On top of all of this, funding for public schools, opportunities for kids to get exposed to other races, religions & cultures, career paths are all minimal to non-existent. It’s not idealistic, and I regret not getting the same exposure & experiences of people my age did in larger cities before I moved out. I had to do a lot of catch up in college that if I had gone to a better public school (or had the option of going to a private one), I wouldn’t of had to.

    • Anomanom

      I grew up in a town of 1200 (rural Michigan, so close). I have three siblings, they all moved back after college and some travel, I am the only one who left and stayed away.

      My issues with it are the same reason my family loves it, so I think it’s a lot about you. Everyone knows your business, but the plus to that is most of the time there is genuine concern involved in that. I like to live under the radar, so it was a bad fit for me. Meanwhile my parents and sister know EVERYONE, and the minute someone hears I’m related the first thing out of their mouth is “I just love your mom/dad.” Yes, healthcare can be difficult, but that is very location specific, and you also get to know them much better if they are local.

      You have to travel more to get to things. You have a smaller circle of people around you. Yes, much much less diversity. I can’t say they are anymore racist than people I’ve met who live in major cities though. Lack of good jobs is 100% a concern. It’s a major reason why I don’t move back. The reasons I consider it though? Land, peace and quiet, family time. I tell people if I wanted to settle down and raise a family though, I’d move back. You have so much less of the competition and materialism that is rampant in bigger cities with kids. If you are trying to raise the next generation of Ivy League grads, not the best choice, but I know a lot of happy middle income people who grew up in situations like me.

      • Anon

        If you’re trying to raise the next generation of Ivy grads, they may actually have an easier time being admitted from a 1200 person town in Michigan than as yet another applicant from Long Island. BUT in rural/small town settings, the kids have to want it themselves and be driven. In the suburbs of NJ, NY, etc., there’s a ton of competition generally and lots of kids get into academics bc of that — wanting to be at the top of the class; go to a top college etc.; people around them — teachers; friends’ parents etc. — encourage those types of dreams.

        In a small 1000 person town, if your kid is saying he wants to go to UPenn or Columbia when he’s a high school frosh, more often than not people in his/her life will try to talk him out of it instead of telling him to go for it. They will act like he/she is “disloyal” to the small town or thinks they are better. They will encourage him/her to go to the local 2 yr school if they REALLY need to go to college or to train in beauty school or as a healthcare tech or whatever and they will act like all of those things are ‘equal’ to a Princeton degree bc to them Princeton is just another college except it’s for rich, fancy people.

        • Anonymous

          Not necessarily. Yes, applying to UPenn from Michigan is good in that you’d provide more diversity than someone applying from Long Island. But admissions officers weigh how good your school is when they read your letters and compare you to other applicants, so to get in from a crappy school you’re going to have get letters from teachers saying things like you’re the best student they’ve had in 40 years of teaching. While in a good public school in NY it may be a higher bar to be a good student, many more people are going to get accepted to Ivies. If you have not had a good education, you are probably also going to struggle with getting Ivy-qualifying test scores, unless you have phenomenal family support. Plus, if you do get in, you’re likely to really struggle in college if you haven’t had a good high school education (I experienced this going to an Ivy from a flyover country public high school that was considered very good for our state but was nowhere near as academically intense as places like Stuyvesant and Thomas Jefferson – and the average high school in a 1,200 person down is far, far inferior to my high school).

          • Anon

            I wouldn’t even worry about getting in (which is obviously a huge hurdle), I’d worry about how to handle it once you are in. Forgetting the kids who are coming from Stuy or TJ and the like, even the regular old public schools in NJ, NY, NoVa are REALLY strong; you have kids coming in who were taking 5+ AP classes as juniors and seniors so they are already used to college level work. Often the public schools servicing 1200 person rural towns will offer ONE AP class for the entire 4 yrs of high school. Sure a super smart kid in that town will breeze thru and make straight As in the regular honors classes easily — and will likely be involved in everything from student govt to sports captain bc they’ll have so much time on their hands since school is so easy; and sure they’ll likely even get 1-2 recs saying they were the best student to come thru the school in 50 yrs. But once they get to UPenn or the like — competing with kids who have been on a college level schedule (long nights of school work after doing a ton of extra curriculars; and that school work is for 5-6 APs not regular old “science”) — will be ROUGH. I had one friend at Penn from a similar rural school in small town Nebraska and he worked HARD to graduate with a 3.5-ish GPA. It turned out fine but it was a hard road from him at Penn.

          • Anonymous

            This! I’m the anonymous below who went to Harvard. My HS was a regional school district with several different towns, and we had 1 AP sophomore year, 2 junior year, and 3 senior year. I was the cream of the crop in my rural HS, but I really struggled at Harvard. My HS also had no opportunity for distance learning or dual enrollment at local community colleges, which is apparently quite typical for other school districts.

        • Anonymous

          I went to Harvard from a small town in the Northeast. I was the first person from my HS to be admitted, and it was a huge culture shock. Also, my school offered no support. They discouraged me from taking the PSAT. I had no idea there were scholarships attached to it. My guidance counselor refused to fill out the school recommendation report for Harvard, and my single mom had to take a day off work to order him to do so. His response? There was no point in getting my hopes up because I wouldn’t get in, and I needed to be more realistic.

          There were undoubtedly other smart kids there with no support. I think its disingenuous to say being from a rural background gives that much of a bump in admissions. Perhaps, but realistically smart kids aren’t ever going to get to that level of even applying because its so unheard of in their small towns.

    • Anonymous

      If there are things about small town life that appeal to you, consider a college town that’s not in a major city. You have many of the benefits of small town living (LCOL, no traffic, friendly neighbors and becoming part of the community) but much less concern about lack of diversity and bad public schools, and there are more jobs.

      • Small town experience

        I wrote a longer reply below that maybe should have just said this. College towns can also mitigate the walkability issues raised above, if that’s a concern, and I’ll cosign the note about knowing your doctor well. I went to the same family practitioner for ~25 years, and it was great: he knew and remembered me, and it wasn’t like starting from scratch every time I went in. I also had a good sense of his philosophy of practicing medicine, which is one with which I agreed. I really miss that.

    • Small town experience

      I grew up in a small town in Central PA, though larger than your proposed locale (~20,000 people). There were lots of things about it that I really liked, but I think that 20,000 is a lot easier than 2,000–you get most of the small town benefits, but with increased availability of services and I think a less boxed-in feeling for a kid. Plus, my hometown had a couple of institutions of higher education in addition to a couple of other local features that attracted people from across the country and around the world to live there, making it notably less parochial than it might have been (though it’s still plenty parochial in lots of ways).

      Assuming you’re really considering Central PA, I also think it depends a lot on where exactly you’ll be. The Harrisburg area, broadly conceived, might have fewer of the downsides. Even the smaller towns there are pretty closely connected to each other; it’s easy to go a couple of towns over for a doctor or a burrito or whatever (plus, you’re a couple of hours from Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Washington and 3-5 hours from Pittsburgh and NYC–those are easy, fun, interesting weekend trips). The local area travel is something I did a fair amount as an adolescent, and it made a big difference to me in terms of expanding my world. I also think the economy’s in decent shape in south-central PA (particularly around Harrisburg). The north-central part of the state, with which I’m less familiar, I think of as substantially more rural and more economically depressed. That, I think, would be a tougher place to live.

      Happy to answer more questions if you have them.

        • Small town experience

          I did! Thought it might be pretty identifiable to someone familiar with the area; I think it’s a pretty unusual town in lots of ways. I’m always happy to see your posts on practicing in Harrisburg, CountC–I no longer live in the area, but I like Central PA a lot.

          • CountC

            I love it here and Carlisle is lovely :) I grew up in NoVA and moved back for a two year stint about two years ago. I couldn’t wait to get back to Central PA. The traffic is laughable in comparison, the cost of living is ridiculous, and my quality of life is leaps and bounds above what it ever could be in NoVa because of the aforementioned traffic and COL. My parents still live in NoVA, but they are retired and can travel the state during the one or two hours when it is not rush hour! ;)

      • Suburban

        +1 0uting myself but I went to college in a small town near Harrisburg. I can see that place having the right balance of small town charm with an intellectual component plus a true walkable downtown. Will you encounter trump-loving buffoons with antiquted ideas about social issues? Yes. But I encounter those people here in the ny suburbs every day.

      • Anonymous

        Carlisle is known for having a large annual klan rally.

        So, yes, diversity is a concern….

    • Panda

      I grew up in a small town in Central PA and moved around 11 to another small town in Central PA. All the negatives listed are spot on. I moved to a mid sized city after graduation and my eyes were suddenly opened that there is a whole world outside my small hometown.

      It’s a weird thing…these people I went to high school with all knew each other for years and years and years. No one ever traveled farther than Ocean City, MD — a lot of people had never ever seen the ocean or been outside the state. Most people are right wing, pseudo-Christians, who are currently eating up everything Trump says. Everyone said they couldnt wait to get out of our small town…but nobody really did. A decent chunk of my graduating high school class either got pregnant in high school or right out. We are 5 years out of high school and I’d say a solid 75% of the ladies have at least one child, many have multiples. Not judging…these are just facts.

      HOWEVER, I will say that I always felt extremely safe in my little town. I never worried about crime until I moved to the city. I am still close with my best friend from high school (who graciously accepted this outsider into her friend group). There is a really solid community spirit that’s hard to identify, but is really cool. For example: a recent high school student was diagnosed with cancer for the third time or something, the entire community rallied around her and her family — there were fundraisers, people sent food, it was really amazing to see.

      So I guess just like everything there are pros and cons. But hey, I think I turned out okay!

    • Anonymous

      Why do you imagine its idyllic?

      I grew up in a small, rural town in MA. Now, I live in the largest “city” of 90,000. Differences? In my hometown, there’s no fast food. There no dry cleaners. No swimming pool in the HS. No gym facilities. No shopping. You have to drive anywhere for this. When it snows, we lose power for 4 days. The roads become impassable. The town doesn’t have money to fund basic services. There are no jobs in town. Our HS had less extracurriculars. We had less sports because there weren’t enough kids to field some of the teams. We didn’t have the money to go on class trips.

      Where I live now, I like being able to go to buy iced coffee or shop. I like being able to walk around a downtown area. I like that my future kids will have better, larger schools with more amenities.

      • X

        I lived all over MA growing up, but the longest I lived anywhere (not including hometown while I was away at school) had a population of 200!

        So we had an hour bus ride to school, down a hill. When it snowed, we had no school. One year, it snowed before Christmas and we didn’t have school for over 2 weeks. During the blizzard of ’78, we could jump off the roof. But there were no stores, no schools, no hospital. There was a volunteer hospital, a church (but not Catholic so we had to go to one near our school an hour away), a post office and a town hall.

        There were only 3 houses on my street. Even the schools I went to in the closest big town didn’t have any extracurriculars, but we did get to leave early on Wednesdays to go skiing at the local ski area.

      • the gold digger

        No shopping. You have to drive anywhere for this.

        This is what annoys me so much about the anti-Walmart people. My mom and dad are from a very small town – no stoplights – and the nearest town with stoplights is 13 miles away.

        Before Walmart and K-Mart came into the stoplight town, you could either shop at the very few, very small family-owned shops that had out of style polyester clothes or pick up your groceries at the tiny, tiny market with hardly any selection, or you could drive an hour east to Wausau for only slightly better shopping or two and a half hours west to Minneapolis for decent shopping. Walmart is not glamorous, but it sure is nice for people in small towns not to have to drive 100 miles to buy socks.

    • CMT

      Yes, and I enjoyed it as a child but looking back, my town was so incredibly classist. Probably would have been racist, too, if it were anything other than lily-white. My family traveled a lot, so I was exposed to different ways of life, but lots of my classmates never were. And it shows now. Also, there was nothing for teenagers to do but drink excessively (but it was very, very remote).

      • Anonymous

        +1 to nothing to do but drink, and I’m not even from a particularly isolated area. I grew up in a small town (under 5,000 people) that was only an hour from Boston, but people never went there. They didn’t have the money and people were afraid of driving and parking. Most people from my town have never been on a city bus or train.

        We had a volunteer fire department and volunteer EMS. Think about that for a minute. Scary.

    • anon

      I could write a novel about towns like this. I moved to DH’s small town with him after college. His friends were nice to me when we were dating (pre-move) but that changed once DH and I moved into town. I think the friends expected him to move back and spend every spare moment partying (read: drinking) with them. When that didn’t happen, they blamed me. Not all of them, but enough that it made socializing with the group very stressful for me. They did all sorts of things, from looming over me periodically (and when I called them out, oh sorry I didn’t realize! no dude you know what you’re doing) to leaving harassing messages on my voicemail to physically assaulting me. We try to hang out with other members of the group one on one, but there’s a lot of pressure to bury the hatchet for the sake of group cohesion. People who have been friends since they were 2 will put up with all kinds of nonsense from each other, it doesn’t matter how wrong they are.

    • Delta Dawn

      I grew up in a town exactly like this. Now, I live in a mid-size city a few hours away. In retrospect, I view my childhood as idyllic. We knew everyone, we could go outside and play without worry, we all got to play whatever sports we wanted because they always needed everyone they could get on the team, that sort of thing. I graduated high school with 42 people, and we pretty much all knew everything about each other, because most of us started together in Kindergarten. Sometimes I am sad that my children probably won’t have that kind of closeness with a group of kids the way my siblings and I had in our small town. It really is lovely to know all your neighbors, know all your kids’ classmates’ parents, and know that you are part of a community that cares about one another individually. My parents still live there and sometimes go to my old high school’s football games, just to visit in the bleachers because they know they’ll know everyone there.

      That’s the idealized memory of it. But I also remember high school being hostile at times. I had straight As, was a cheerleader, etc., and often dealt with accusations of thinking I was “too good” for our town. There are not a lot of options for young people in a small town (or maybe this is true of everywhere really?), resulting in lots of “shop parties” where kids ended up drinking in someone’s dad’s workshop every weekend. You were either “cool” and went to the parties, or you were “too good” and stayed home to avoid underage drinking. Those are the downsides from my teenage perspective.

      As an adult, I would never move back there. Even though I would love to raise my children in a place like that, I think it would be hard for them when they became teens– and I don’t think I would enjoy living there as an adult. Even though I grew up there, as did my parents, I think coming back now I would already be branded an “outsider” since I did get out and get (as you put it) a big deal job. I have no idea what work would be available there beyond teaching, accounting, maybe small banking. There’s one attorney that does all the legal work in a tri-county area, and one more attorney would basically be market saturation.

      So, to answer your question, I think it’s both. It’s idyllic and charming and safe and warm, but it’s also cliquey and rural and slow. I don’t want to talk you out of it– it might depend on your job/skill set and if you already are familiar with the community you’re considering.

    • Anonymous

      I grew up in a small town like that, but where I lived all the small towns were smushed together so our local area consisted of many small towns. I think there is a big different between that and being the only small town around. Sure, my town had no fast food, dry cleaner, gas station, etc but they were all still around within a 10-15 minute drive. I think the biggest drawback is dealing with small minds – probably going to be a fair amount of racism and narrow thinking, but again that depends on your town in particular. You would also need an open mind because your friend may not necessarily share the same background as you. If you have kids, you would need to accept that they will probably go to college and then move to a different city after graduation. The upside? you will save a boatload of money.

    • green stripes

      I grew up in a town about this size in the metro Boston area, and the small-ness was a factor of strict zoning laws that effectively preserved a rural structure while locating itself such that most parents had extremely good salaries. I say “parents” not adults because it was a super homogeneous all white, all college-educated, all nuclear family society. (This also is a result of the structure of MA public school system, which is effectively a de facto private school system with havens of phenomenal public schools in wealthy high-tax towns like the one I grew up in – no sane person without kids would pay the taxes just to live in this setting). As a result, it suffered none of the elements you describe, access to jobs/healthcare/education etc was on par with what you would expect in the Boston area.

      Setting all that aside, I loved it growing up. I could walk and bike to school or my friends’ houses unsupervised, I knew my friends families, I went to the same school until high school and got to see my favorite teachers anytime I wanted even as I grew up. For me as a child, it was idyllic. For my parents, I’m sure the driving everywhere was tough – there was no commercial activity in my town and if friends weren’t within a mile or so, they were responsible for driving us everywhere. As soon as we got our licenses we had a car available simply because my parents were DONE spending so much time in the day picking us up and dropping us off from school/sports/friends/etc.

      Then I went to college and realized I had literally never explored the world by myself: I had had freedom around our little town, but all of the parents had been pretty strict about letting us explore Boston by ourselves. I was not close with a single adult who had worked in a blue collar industry, much less one who had not graduated college.

      So pluses and minuses, in a very different way than many other commenters. By tangible measures (multiple ivy league degrees, influential and interesting job, “traditional” success) I am better off for it. By intangibles, I am not.

    • Anonymous

      I grew up in a small town, in Pennsylvania but not central (though I went to Penn State!)

      With the caveat that I am sure my parents did what they thought was the best move for their family: I hated it. I felt stifled. My parents never wanted to go anywhere, not even to NYC which was less than 3 hours away. There was a lot of racism, small-town myopic mindset, and also economic depression. Many people had never traveled. We were close enough to the city to have issues with drugs and gangs. A kid I went to elementary school with was convicted of first-degree murder with suspicious of both of those things being involved (I didn’t follow the case that closely.) Lots of alcohol and alcohol problems.

      I don’t talk to most people I grew up with because many of them never left and kept spinning their wheels in the mud there. The couple people I do talk to also left – my “high school” ex who moved to the small town from NYC but now lives in the same Big City I do, my best friend from forever who went to a T14 law school…. and a small handful of people I keep touch with on Facebook. And when my parents divorced, there was ENDLESS gossip and drama that I heard even from my location hundreds of miles away. I don’t go back any more. I would never subject kids to this. The city isn’t perfect, but I think it is a whole lot better than small town USA.

    • Heather

      Replying late – however, I currently live in a town of about 3,500 people with about a 20 minute drive to a town of 8,000, 45 minute drive to a down of 150,000.

      The great things about living here:
      Everyone knows everyone.
      I always feel safe. We rarely lock our doors except for at night and when we go on vacation.
      Kids go to a small school – less than 800 kids district wide.
      Lots of fun small businesses we can help support.

      Downsides about living here:
      Everyone knows everyone – and everyone’s business…
      Small grocery store in our town has hardly anything…make a trip to the 20 minute away town to do all weekly grocery shopping.
      Not great shopping or events happening here.

      Overall, I LOVE living here. I work at a business (CPA) where I feel valued and my work/life balance is great. We attend a church here where we are welcomed and supported. Family is 5 minutes away. Husband is happily running his own business. Kids are in small daycare/preschool classes. Friends are always willing to get together just to hang out…no big necessary event required to see them.

    • HQB

      A lot of the downsides (it’s hard to come in and make friends as an adult since everyone has known everyone else since kindergarten; lack of diversity; lack of jobs; few people travel or take a broader/more cosmopolitan view of the world; poor (both financially and academically) school systems; etc.) will be significantly lessened in a college town. There will still likely be some town vs. gown issues, but overall you can get many of the advantages – a cosy atmosphere, lots of space, close to nature, and so on without sacrificing as many economic and social advantages of larger towns. There will be more restaurants and places to shop, definitely. And Central PA has tons of small liberal arts college towns!

  25. SFO Conference

    I have a conference in San Francisco at the end of the month. The website for the conference lists attire as “business casual”, but I know from attending the conference in other cities that the attire runs to the more formal end of business casual, especially for the first three days (and the last day actually runs “casual casual”).

    I was planning to pack relatively light and to wear mostly sheaths with coordinating (but not matching) jackets or sweaters, i.e. dark sheath with tweed jacket, patterned sheath with cashmere duster sweater. Do I need to wear hosiery if I wear a dress or skirt at that time of year to avoid freezing or looking out of place?

    If so, will tights be too casual or will actual hose be too formal?

    • Anonymous

      Hose are too formal. Definitely wear tights if you want something on your legs. Whether you want tights probably depends on how cold-blooded you are and what the weather is like. SF in late October can be in the 70s and sunny or in the 50s and rainy. SF always feels colder to me than the actual number on the thermometer, because of the ocean breeze and the fog. I would bring tights since they don’t take much space and skip them if you feel warm when you get there.

    • Scarlett

      I live in SF and it’s definitely tights weather here (although it’s bouncing between being really hot and really cold). You pretty much never see hose here (I’m sure there are exceptions) & it’s usually bare legs or tights. And you’ll almost never be out of place in tights because it always gets cold at some point in the day.

      • Susie

        So I’m confused about this. With nude-for-you hose a lot of times you can’t really tell the person is wearing hose at all unless you look super close. Why would you assume no one is wearing them? I’m sure a lot of ladies wear them, for warmth if not because bare legs are not appropriate.
        Saying this as someone who wears hose in SV when the weather is cold.

        • Scarlett

          Eh, you can tell – there’s a different “finish” & we’re close together on public transit, in restaurants, etc. so it’s not like we’re observing from afar. I’m not saying don’t do it, just that downtown SF you really don’t see people wearing hose & it’s a more conservative look than most people sport around here. All that said, in SF in general, no one will bat an eyelash at whatever you wear so do what makes you comfortable. If you like hose, wear hose. But it’s not like DC or some place that has a hose = dressy expectation about it.

    • Anonymous

      At a *conference* center in SF, IMO hose wouldn’t look out of place if you do prefer them (although your wording suggests you’d rather not, which would also be fine depending on who else will be attending the conference).

      Strong yes to tights.

    • sfbae

      is it in the city (like moscone)? if so, i would at least bring tights in case it’s chilly. for example, it was 85 here over the past weekend but also 50-60 degrees today.

      • SFO Conference

        Indeed. In that case, I am off to get some new tights!

        Thanks for the responses!

    • Engines

      Do hose ever look “too formal”? If they’re nude-for-you, and they blend with your legs well, then no one can tell you are wearing them…right?

      Not a critic of the question — this is more of a legitimate question from myself.

      I am an engineer in an office where hose are definitely not the norm, but I frequently have to go into our cleanroom (manufacturing site) and my legs must be covered, so I am always wearing hose. As one of few women engineers who regularly go into the cleanroom, there aren’t a lot of people in my position. I figured no one cared. Do you think people actually see this as being too formal (if they don’t realize it’s just for the manufacturing site)?

  26. Lawyered!

    Eeek! Got my bar number, I’m a real lawyer now!

    My supervisor might be more excited than me, he no longer has to read every single advice letter I send out.

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