Tuesday’s TPS Report: Tabitha Jacket

231 Comments

1. I posted late last night, so I’ll try again this morning – any tips for a government lawyer interviewing with regional Big Law? I’ve got a specialty that makes me appealing for the position, but I’ve only worked in government for 8 years, so no firm experience.

   1. Dont do it. Biglaw sucks. Most people want out to government, not the other way around.

      1. My comment disappeared for some reason.

         +10000000 for this. I’ve been in Biglaw for 5 years and the money isn’t worth what you give up; and there are really no other positives to speak of other than the money. It’s my dream to pay off my loans and get a government job. Plus aren’t you 2 years away from loan forgiveness?

         1. The “Biglaw sucks” made me laugh. I’m not too surprised to get responses like this. Loan forgiveness isn’t an issue here, but that would definitely change the equation if it was.

            I’m really considering whether the trade-offs are worth it to me, so I’m not blind to what it might do to my life. I’m not trying to leave government as much as this is an area I’ve wanted to work in since before law school, so I think it’s worth giving it a try. Hearing the negatives are helpful, but I’m hoping for some positives too.

         2. Loan forgiveness didn’t start until 2008 or 9. So, I believe, her time spend working in government prior to that won’t count towards the 10 year program. The first people won’t be forgiven until 2018 or 2019.

         3. I think that whether or not there are positives depends on the person, and your personal and professional goals. I work in a specialized field in Biglaw; I love my industry and what our clients do; and the in-house and government lawyers in this field aren’t doing the big, interesting, strategic work. In my industry, in-house lawyers have the boring, routine legal work, and the cutting-edge, bet-the-company stuff goes to outside counsel (me). There is something new and interesting and different on my desk almost every day. I have an enormous amount of influence on my clients’ business success; I feel valued and respected for my expertise; and I enjoy a high degree of autonomy.

            Are the hours long? Sure. I’ll probably bill 2250-2300 this year, plus 200 hours of business development time (writing, speaking, conferences, and client functions). Is the work sometimes grinding and boring? Yes, it can be. Yes, there are times when it’s 3 AM and I’m exhausted and I wish the buck stopped with anyone but me. But I love my job. There’s no way I would give this up to go in-house or to government.

            And for what it’s worth, I did a six-month secondment in-house, so I’ve seen the other side of the fence. Leaving at 5:00 every day wouldn’t be worth giving up what I have now.

            1. Agree with cbackson that it definitely depends on the person. As someone in her industry with what she’s deemed to be the “boring, routine legal work”, I’m very happy to be in my shoes and not hers (and I also disagree with that characterization). To each her own :)

      2. +1 – I read this yesterday and just shook my head and thought “bless her cotton socks”

         1. +1 – I read this yesterday and just shook my head and thought “bless her cotton socks”

            1. Haha – me too (I thought it in my best southern voice). Fwiw,seriously think twice about the move – I’m ex big law, now govt lawyer and cannot imagine going in reverse. But I don’t like any area of law enough to spend all my waking hours doing it.

      3. For what it’s worth, I love my Biglaw job. Even at 2400 hours a year, I love it.

         1. I knew there had to be someone!

         2. i was going to say the same thing. I actually went from gvt to BigLaw and I love it.

         3. I have not been in biglaw for any significant period of time (only one year), but I work in government now and I am thrilled to be going back to biglaw in a few months!

   2. Get across that you’re not just in it for the money. Be prepared to answer questions about whether you can represent the bad guys (not sure what your specialty is, but if you will be “going over to the dark side”, be prepared to explain that you’ve thought about the switch and are good with it). I get frustrated by the second question because it’s like, “yes, I applied for this job and agreed to come into interview, I don’t think this is puppies and rainbows (not that govt is anyway),” but it’s good to have a polished (and polite) answer.

      1. I think you have to also be prepared to discuss working long hours/weekends. Fair or not, there is often a perception in private practice that all gov’t work is 9-5, M-F, and whether that’s true for you or not, you need to be able to show that you are committed to doing whatever the new job requires.

         1. I just commented on last night’s Q this morning, and I agree with AIMS. You should find a way to say this because it’s going to be the elephant in the room until you big game hunt it.

            1. LOL!!!

         2. Actually, I’m 8:30-4:30, M-F, thanks. :)

         3. Yes. When I came out of an extended clerkship, I had several Biglaw attorneys ask me during interviews whether I felt prepared to transition into a more demanding schedule. Asked with varying levels of condescension and concern.

         4. I’m a non-lawyer in government and we recently hired someone out of big/mid law who totally expected the easy-peasy 9-5, no weekends, no crises lifestyle. That is not what it’s like in my area/field.

            …I discovered this at hour 30 of a 40 hour marathon work session where she turned to me and just said, ‘This is not what I signed up for.”

            1. I’m a government lawyer and routinely work 60 hours a week. A typical day is 7:30am to 7pm, and I eat lunch at my desk. I’m on salary and I don’t get overtime, and it’s a government salary.

               I also regularly either come in on the weekend or work remotely from home all weekend.

            2. Ditto. There is a huge misconception that all government employees work 40 hour weeks.

            3. Government almost-attorney here, and same! Twelve hour days are the norm once you’re at executive level leadership in my agency.

      2. This is all really helpful, thank you. I’m definitely prepared for longer hours than I work now, but I can see the value in raising that proactively.

         1. Big law hours are soul crushing for most (not all) but most people. Think hard.

         2. The long hours don’t bother me (billed 2250 last year). The unpredictability does. For example, I spent my whole Saturday in the office dealing with an emergency, then had no work to do yesterday but still felt obligated to put in 8 hours of face time. I have a toddler, and when I lose a weekend day to work, it effectively means that I lose half my time with him for the week. If workflow were steady enough that I could bill 9 hours a day, everyday, I’d have no complaints.

            1. +1 – this exactly. It’s long hours plus unpredictable hours, which means you work all.the.time. And if you aren’t working, you’re looking at your work email. Or thinking about it. Or talking about it.

            2. This is me too. I had a 9 to 5 before law school and the monotony of the hours felt soul crushing for me even though I enjoyed the work. I always liked school because you have ramp-up periods where you’re working like crazy, then you get a break. I thought biglaw would be like that. I love the rush of being crazy busy, even when it means all nighters, and I’m happiest when I’m billing 300+/mo.

               I just hate that you can’t schedule ANYTHING in your personal life. There’s no such thing as a happy hour or dinner or evening or weekend or vacation that you can carve out for yourself. Everything gets cancelled. It’s always at the last minute. And then after working all weekend, you come in on Monday and just SIT with nothing to do except stew about all the stuff you didn’t take care of over the weekend and now have to do in the evening after you fulfill your facetime requirement.

            3. Dittoes. It wasn’t the long hours, it was the unpredictability and the inability to have a say over your own life. My friends quickly disappeared because I could never honor my plans. Dinner always got cancelled, trips got cancelled, weddings got missed, etc. The only people I hung out with were the other lawyers in my firm and they were kinda lousy company. All we did was drink together. It wasn’t a social life, it was law firm hangover.

   3. Reposting my response from yesterday:

      I made the transition from gov’t to in-house. I found that non-government people don’t have a good grasp of the level of responsibility you have in government. As a government attorney I had primary decision making responsibility on legal matters with multi-million and billon dollar impact. I found that I had to educate my interviewers on the significant scope, breadth and depth of my government responsibilities and that because of that experience I was prepared to hit the ground running with the firm or company’s significant matters.

      Additionally, if you regularly interact with significant senior leaders in the government, make that know. Not in a name dropping kind of way but to demonstrate that you are accustomed ( and trusted) to rendering legal advice directly to senior level decision makers- you are seasoned in rendering sound and well founded legal advice to “clients”

      1. This is perfect, thank you!

      2. Any advice on how you explained the scope and depth of your responsibilities on your resume? This is something I struggle with.

2. I have a question for everyone who has debated staying in a big city or moving out to the suburbs. DH is really itching to get out of NYC. We’ve been here for 5 years, and he’s ready to have some more space and some peace and quiet. We’re probably about 4 years away from having kids. He wants to move to the town in Westchester where he grew up and where his extended family is still located. We have a great relationship with his parents and his sisters, who are all out in the suburbs with their husbands and kids. I think I’m ready to move out too, but I’m afraid that once I do, I’ll start to find things that I really miss about the city and I’m scared that I’m letting go of a short pre-kid window to stay here. So- with that in mind, what are the things you would consider in making the decision? Was there anything that you didn’t consider in making the decision that in retrospect you wish you had thought of?

   I think the two things that I’m struggling with are 1) any house we buy in his [extremely expensive] town would be a stretch initially. I’m relatively new in my job but the norm in my office is for the salary to double within 4 years, so waiting a bit would make the purchase slightly easier. It’s hard to wrap my mind around buying a 7 figure starter home, since that is so far from what I grew up with, but that’s really what seems to be required to be in this little pocket where his family is located and where there’s green space but it isnt a long commute to the city and 2) the town itself is where our support system is located. My inlaws are young, active and love being involved in the grandchildren’s lives- they’re at the school performances and chaperoning field trips and as a future working mom it would be nice to feel like my kids have family so involved instead of just having babysitters. All of my SILs are stay at home moms, and I’d love to have my kids grow up with their cousins. But, the whole town leans very traditional in structure. Most of the families have dads that work and moms who stay home. I’m a little bit nervous that it’ll be hard for me to make friends or be involved, since I’ll be on a different schedule than everyone else.

   I would so appreciate any input from all of you!

   1. Could you try renting in a nearby town that’s a little closer to your “structure”? I’m sure your inlaws would be willing to drive an extra 15 minutes to see any potential grandkids.

   2. 1. You can always do a staycation in the city or just go for a night or a weekend.

      2. Red flag on the 7-figure starter house that’s a stretch. Find out what day care or a good nanny costs (paid on the books) and don’t increase your salary at all. Add some car payments. How does that math work? I think you can live in the burbs for less than that (still expensive though). If his people are near (< 1 hour) but not next door, you all will still be super-involved if you want.

      3. You may rethink working or working as much with children. Especially over time. Just for the sanity / marriage penalty often makes the tradeoff questionable as you make more and more money. Don't stress that people have taken other roads — they are doing them; you do you.

   3. Yay! I love Club Monaco, Kat–I have some of their stuff. White tho is a proabelem for me b/c of the marinara sauce that is attracted to it! FOOEY for me, but Yay for women who are more carful then me.

      As for the OP, you are describeing Rosa’s situeation, b/c she was young when she married Ed and moved to Chapaqua, where Ed’s family is (Mount Kisscoe). She was just married and they had a choice to live in the City or in the Suburb’s, and they were in the City breifley, but mooved out to Chapaqua when Ed kept hinteing at babie’s b/c his firm (Merill Lynch) likes guy’s to be GROUNDED and not out all nite haveing fun in bar’s and strip joint’s where they could get picture’s in the Post the next day with a floozie. So Ed said to Rosa, let’s moove to Chapaqua and you can stop workeing and just have kid’s and I will comute to the City each day, and of course, Rosa did not have much of a job (workeing in a department store) so she said YES, as long as she could have a cleaneing lady and a full time nanny once she gave birth. Ed wasted no time haveing his family scout out houses near to them and they mooved to a nice place in Chapaqua and Rosa lived up to her end of the deal, having multipel babie’s! YAY!!!!

      I want the same thing, tho I can NOT wait now to have babie’s b/c I am the older (spinster) sister and my family is literaly begging for me to get pregnant NOW. Grandma Leyeh paid me $50K and Grandma Trudy said to just have sex and worry about who the father is later. No offense, but I do NOT think she realy meant anyone b/c she would have thrown up if I told her I slept with guy’s like Gonzalo. DOUBEL FOOEY! I also do NOT think she would want me to start sleepeing with the manageing partner’s brother b/c she is probably to young to be his mom and she would NOT want him haveing sex with me either.

      So I think the OP should do it. Moove to the suburb’s even if it is a stretch and start haveing babie’s NOW while you are young. Your situeation sound’s just right for it. You can have a life of leeisure with your in-laws, go to the pool all day and just make sure you have something to feed your husband when he get’s home. Also, make sure to keep him happy b/c you do NOT want to get divorced 15 year’s from now when you will NOT be as attractive to men (other than old guy’s that are bald and just want to use you for sex). You seem to be in a good place so GO FOR IT! YAY!!!!!

   4. A town with 7-figure starter homes inevitably comes with expectations. Even though I’m sure the public schools are awesome, is there pressure for private school? Expensive activities for the kids? (almost definitely). Whatever you think you’ll be stretching to spend, you’ll probably be spending more.

      1. This. Are there other towns nearby that are close, but not quite as pricey? We ruled out some suburbs in the NYC area not only b/c they were expensive, but b/c they were lily-white, populated almost exclusively by stay at home moms with nannies, and didn’t represent any of the diversity (economic as well as ethnic) I’d hoped to expose our children to. We still live in a very well-off town, but the diversity meant its been easier for us (and our kids) to find other couples with similar life experiences and values.

         1. May I ask which towns you ended up liking. My husband and I are thinking of moving to Westchester next year and this is our concern

      2. This, so much. We moved to a suburb that’s not exclusively seven figure homes, but just having a nice house in a nice area = we spend so much more. You’re not just buying a house. You’re buying the upkeep: irrigation system, lawncare and/or gardener, pool upkeep, the list goes on. In a less pricey/fancy suburb, you might not feel so bad with a lawn full of clover and a greenish pool. But in my area, we really feel the pressure to keep our house really, really nice. I’m sure we’ll feel the pressure to put Baby Snowy into French lessons and horseback riding (whether we’ll do it… eh).

         So yes, +1 to “whatever you think you’ll be spending, you’ll be spending more”

   5. I started two or three thoughtful replies, but they devolved into: “Don’t do it!” If you want space/quiet, move to a less expensive suburb and try renting for a while.

      1. +1. 4 years from having kids? Don’t do it! Rent if you want to move out of the city now, but I might consider just going to his parents’ house for more weekends in the meantime.

         Also, the commute from Westchester is a GRIND. It is an hour each way (with time getting to the train, train, then time from train to office). Blecccccccch.

         I just thought of more. We bought in the suburbs, but were only about 1.5 years from our first kid being born. Also, didn’t stretch for the house. Also, needed to fix our house before having kids. Also, my commute is only 30-35 minutes.

         1. Don’t forget MetroNorth derailments, snow closures, leaf delays (yes, that is a real thing) and all the general late for no reason days. The MTA is no bargain, but dear god MetroNorth has had some real issues in the last 5 or so years.

            1. I thought leaf delays was an excuse they only used in London…

         2. In addition, property taxes in Westchester are a TON. The school districts etc. make the towns very expensive to live in. If his parents’ town is where you want to move, wait before buying until you can easily afford it, and rent until then.

         3. I’ve commuted from Westchester for a long time, and it’s not bad. We’re in a fairly close-in suburb, so while my train ride is a little over half an hour it’s time for me to read the paper in the morning and edit briefs or just zone out on the way home – when my kids were small it was essentially the only time I had to myself all day. On the other hand, taxes are indeed high, and the communities are very family-oriented. It’s a great place to live once you have kids, but I wouldn’t have moved before then.

      2. Also can you afford the taxes on a 7 figure home? +1 to renting in or nearby the town.

      3. I’m also on team “Don’t Do It!” My husband and I bought a house when the market was right and in anticipation of having babies, but for various reasons, the pregnancy didn’t happen until now, about 2.5 years after the house. I LOVE my house, and it will be great with a baby, but my husband, stepson (high school), and I would have been happier staying closer to the city for these last few years. I feel like the move was premature; I didn’t need to feel like a suburban housewife so soon (which happens even though I still work downtown). I think you should stay and have fun in the city!!! (Or do whatever is closest to that that your husband can handle, if he’s really done with city life.)

         1. I am in exactly the same boat. Moved pre-pregnancy in part because I really didn’t want to deal with it while pregnant; pregnancy, for various reasons, took its sweet time and I think we’d have been better off to stay in DC another year or two.

         2. I am not in the NYC area, houses cost like 1/10 of that here, but I think a lot of the same things still apply.

            We did similar to AEK, and ended up living in a 4 bedroom house by ourselves for 3 years until baby finally came along.

            My husband was the one pushing to buy a house in the burbs and he is super happy with the decision, and while I don’t regret buying toward the bottom of the market, not having to move again was nice, we got to do a bunch of work on the house, etc. I also wish we’d have continued to rent in a fun area for a couple more years and enjoyed ourselves a bit more and saved up more money for a downpayment. I love the place now that we have a toddler running around and #2 on the way, but it was kind-of depressing for the first couple years (especially when struggling to get pregnant and having those empty bedrooms. ugh.).

            I say don’t put the cart before the horse. You will have a minimum of 9 months to worry about baby-related housing later… and honestly they don’t need much space for the first year anyway, so you’re really talking about 2 years after you get a positive pregnancy test that you’ll need more space. A lot can happen in 6 years.

            Also, I’d avoid using your potential future earnings for what you can afford, even if it is a 99% chance. You never know exactly when that raise will come and that’s really risky.

   6. I moved to the DC suburbs last summer and got pregnant like a month later. It was the right decision for my family, but I really, really miss living in the city. Even though I’m in a walkable, close-in suburb with easy metro access, it’s just not the same. I think if I hadn’t had my baby right away, it would have really started to grate on me, especially since all my friends are in the city. So my advice is to proceed with caution. I like the idea someone had above to try renting in the burbs first to see how you like it.

      1. FWIW, it is like that (in reverse) as your friends marry off and move out. I found that while I hadn’t moved out (or out very far — think Hoboken / Arlington), friends were perpetually leaving. If not to the more family-ish suburbs, they took other jobs, or just weren’t there. I hadn’t planned on that since the people factor lead me to live among my friends in the city when I was in my 20s. That changed by the time were were on the north side of 35.

      2. I have a friend who has a very firm “rent before you buy” rule for any new city/neighborhood. I think it’s sound policy when making any big chance and if you’re still a few years from kids, I’d try renting in new town first.

         Also, what’s the plan if you’re not going to move to Westchester? Move there in a few years after kids? Stay in NYC? Option C? If staying in the city is an option, where are you living now? Maybe moving somewhere with an easier commute to Westchester (Upper West Side?) would be a good compromise? Or getting a small car if you don’t have one? (My SO’s complaining about NYC stopped as soon as we got a car – I think whatever was bothering him was solved by just being able to take quick weekend trips to wherever without have to plan for a rental). I’d also throw out Riverdale as an option but that might be too far from the city for you to be a good compromise.

         1. I totally agree with the rent before you buy concept, except that we’ve spent so much time in the town already and know the neighborhoods well, since it is where DH grew up. DH has always been very clear he doesn’t want to raise kids in the city. So I guess I’m debating between staying the city for a few more years and then trying to time the move to the suburbs right around when we decide to start trying or moving out now and have a little bit of time to settle in, fix up the house, and adjust before adding a baby to the mix.

            1. Ah. In that case, I would just stay in the city as long as I could. I think everyone pretty much articulated it above, but why lose your last few years to enjoy city life?

   7. Don’t buy a million dollar house unless you are 100% sure it’s what you want. Can you rent in his town? Nearby?

      1. Heh, in a lot of areas 1m on a house is just entry level if you’re lucky.

         1. Yes – but that is why you shouldn’t buy in those areas unless you are 100% sure it’s what you want.

            1. Or in other areas if the price is a huge stretch for your personal income and savings. You don’t want to risk the expenses of buying (like closing costs, maintenance) if you aren’t sure.

   8. Maybe you can split the difference for a while? If you were to live in Upper Manhattan or Riverdale and get a car, you can visit his family easily while still having the benefits of city living. Also, you’d be surprised how much space you can get in these neighborhoods for less money than the rest of the city.

      If you’re working full time, even if it’s truly only an 8-hour/day commitment, you’ll only benefit from your husband’s family on weekends. If your hours are longer, how will the commute impact your quality of life?

   9. I’m not in NY so I can’t comment on the specific neighborhood you are considering, but I moved from DC to the suburbs three months ago and every weekend now feels a little like vacation to me. It is so quiet, and I enjoy eating lunch on our deck every weekend. My commute is longer and we are still learning the tricks to suburban home maintenance but I’m loving it. If we want to go out in the city we can, but it’s nice to not be in the middle of it every day.

      1. And maintenance? An adage I heard before I bought was to figure on 1% of the home’s value in maintenance every year… I’ve found that to be pretty true on my older house. Plus think about the time (or money) you’ll need to spend on housekeeping and yardwork. You won’t want to do it yourself after you spend all day at work and commuting, especially if you throw a kid in the mix.

         I moved to a close-in DC suburb when I was pregnant a couple years ago, and I love my house and neighborhood, but I miss walking a block or two to the grocery store/metro/restaurant/random cultural event. I also miss having the concierge sign for my packages, calling the maintenance people when there’s a problem instead of looking for a fix-it man or DIYing, and watering the plants on my balcony for 2 minutes to complete my “yardwork.” I was going to have to be an adult anyway with a kid, and I totally relate to itching for more space and greenery, but in retrospect I’m glad I hung onto my comparatively easy city lifestyle as long as I could.

         oops this ended up in the wrong spot, but at least the right thread!

   10. Thank you all for your thoughts on this! I’d be up for renting, but the rental market in the town/nearby is actually even worse than the regular market. Rent would actually be higher than the mortgage payments we would have. The public schools are the #1 reason we’d be there. DH went to the public school, has some attachment to it, and it is one of the best in the country. The surrounding towns don’t have that perk (and many have significantly higher taxes), and the farther away we get from his family and friends who are back in the town, the more I feel like we might as well be in the city (if we’re 30 minutes driving, why not be a 45 minute train ride away and stay in the city?). I guess I’m feeling like we’re either all-in for his town, or all-in for a few more years in the city. I’m trying to sort my feelings out on this because timing is so, so important in buying in the town. There are so few homes that come up in the really low 7 figure range, that being able to move quickly is critical to getting something. So I don’t want to see a house we could afford, then be sorting out my feelings, and miss out on an opportunity that I realize I would have been happy with. It seems like we could decide we want to buy and still end up looking for something we can afford for a year, or we could start looking and find something we want to jump on right away. So me being on board with moving doesn’t even necessarily mean it would happen right away.

       1. I still think you should wait until you can COMFORTABLY afford a house. (1 year?) Then start looking, and if it takes another year until you close? Fine. You don’t want to jump into something you can’t afford and then get stuck in case of job loss, etc. etc. Don’t try to time the real estate market or the supply of houses. Also consider buying a wreck that will be cheaper.

       2. I see a lot of good reasons to move to his town when you have kids (supportive family). And I see a lot of good reasons to not move to his town now (expensive, not as fun). Are there any reasons to move to his town now? I don’t see any.

          1. Ditto. Has your DH’s family put a bug in his ear about moving now? It’s really not a giant rush. We have friends who moved with a 1-yo and while not as easy as moving before kids, it was still not a huge pain for them and allowed them to save more and move to the exact neighborhood they wanted.

       3. By your math, you have nine more years before public schools are a concern. And you’re already living close enough to his parents to visit frequently.

          You seem to have narrowed your choices down a lot, unnecessarily: we need to be in this town, because schools and family , and houses sell all the time and what if we miss it. There is no “it”. There are lots of options. If you’re ready to move and can’t find a house in this town, you’ll buy nearby. Your in laws will drive 20 mins, your kid will survive K-3 in the third best school, and when a house becomes available then you’ll move. Don’t tie yourself to a very expensive home prematurely.

          1. +1 to everything Anne Shirley said.

          2. AnneShirley,

             You have a great common sense approach. If you had the time and inclination, you could probably have a business as a life coach or personal adviser to high-earning/wealth type-A people.

       4. I grew up in Westchester and cannot imagine purchasing a 7 figure house (pre-kids) unless my husband was extremely successful or had family $$. If you are providing a significant amount of the family income, you are placing golden handcuffs on yourself so that it will be unlikely you can leave your job or ramp down to part time. Even if you had a kid today, it would be 5 years before that child would go to school! It’s possible that you will be working all day every day to pay for that house (and the associated costs of being in that neighborhood) while sacrificing time with your child. I say this as a full time working mom, so it’s not that I want you to throw in the towel and quit your job, but there are TONS of good school districts in Westchester where you can purchase a starter home in a lower price range. You would even be able to move to your “dream district” in 5-7 years if need be-if prices keep going up, you will have built equity in your starter home as well. I must be missing the potential pluses to buying such an expensive property now-unless, again, you can easily afford it on one income or one income plus a reduced second income.

          1. Agreed. I grew up in Westchester as well, and my parents decided on a smaller, older house (2500 sq ft, built in the 60s) in a nice area that could be paid for by a single salary. It was no problem when my mom quit her job a few years later to stay at home. I had plenty of friends whose parents both HAD to work, or else they couldn’t afford their house. Tesyaa above made a good point about lifestyle creep and other expenses, too – summer camp, ballet class, piano lessons, maid service (those big houses don’t clean themselves!) all add up.

       5. We bought a house in the DC suburbs 5 years before we had kids. I was absolutely miserable and HATED it – the commute, the inability to walk to restaurants, the lack of people to relate to (everyone in my neighborhood was a stay at home mom). And we didn’t even live that far from DC – just a few miles away, but it was still tough. We now have 1 kid and have lived in the city for a few years and are so much happier. We may have to move to the burbs one day but we are delaying it for as long as possible. It sounds like you are ambivalent on what amounts to a HUGE decision. Don’t do it.

          1. LB and Anon above – would you be willing to email me at dc_rette at yahoo dot com? My SO and I are debating DC city vs burbs now and I’d really really love to hear more about your experience.

       6. Hmm – I’m on team I’d consider it now. 1.5-2 years to having kids isn’t that far away and impersonally like being settled and not feeling like everything is changing at the same time. Kids are such an upender that getting settled/ finding your favorite spots/ completely moved in before you have kids sounds like a much better plan to me.

       7. My husband and I actually did the same thing you are considering, but on the opposite coast… we moved from San Francisco to the suburban town where his parents live, bought a house that was a bit of a stretch for us at the time (and just before the real estate crash!), and had our first child 4 years later. It really worked out perfectly for us. It was great to be able to have a few years to get the house in order, get to know the neighbors, and really feel a sense of community before having kids. Of course, part of it is that we realized that many of the things we liked to do for fun, especially on the weekends, took us out of the city anyway, as we tend toward the outdoorsy. But since we still work in the city, we still have happy hours and other activities so it’s not like we’re completely cut off from all the benefits of living there. Finance-wise, both our salaries went up, and with lower interest rates our payments actually went down significantly, so within a few years it was not a stretch any more, and we were definitely glad that we “stretched” when we did. But it sounds like you are a little more ambivalent about leaving the city than your husband is? Try to think about what specific things you will miss most (because there will be things), and why.

       8. I just wanted to add in that although I agree you could wait, I also agree that it wouldn’t be a bad idea to go now. You’ll make new friends (it sounds like husband has a friend network there you’ll likely get plugged into), and then that support will be set by the time you have kids, and you’ll likely have friends also having kids.

          Also, personally, I think the proximity to grandparents and stay-at-home sister in laws is being underestimated by a lot of people. 30 minutes away is not the same as 2 miles. I lived a mile from my mom when my son was little, and to be able to call her at a moment’s notice and say “I have to run into work, can I bring munchkin by?” and be able to accomplish that in 5 minutes is not to be ignored. Also, if you have daycare (which, SIL’s might be a possibility, and how great could that be?) then you have all these people who can potentially help you with pick ups and drop offs when work gets crazy.

          *I* couldn’t go to every school program my son had, but he was never the kid with no one there, because if I couldn’t go, grandma & grandpa ALWAYS went. He was always perfectly happy with that.

       9. Rent would be higher than the mortgage, or rent would be higher than the mortgage payments to the bank +taxes + insurance? If the taxes really are that high, and prices are that high, you need to look carefully at the mortgage calculators you are using to make sure they are doing the tax & insurance estimates properly. Plus renting means you can still have your down payment in the bank, instead of spending $200,000+ on a down payment.

          Also, your husband might dream of raising his kids in his hometown, but it sounds like the hometown is full of SAHMs. Is he prepared for the idea that if you are both working full time to pay for the house your life is not going to be the same as what he grew up in?
          I agree with everyone else that there is a lot of room in between “I want to move out of the city to a place with a yard closer to my parents” to “I want to buy a 1M+ house in my hometown suburb”.

   11. If you know where you want to move and are still four years away from kids, you might consider buying a house that needs some work. That will keep the initial expense lower, will give you and SO a new hobby (assuming you are up for it) and will get you a better house by the time kids come along. I moved to the suburbs 9 years before my first was born. We spent 7 years fixing up house number 1 and moved up to house number 2 before the first pregnancy. Loved working on projects (except when we wanted to kill each other), enjoyed the deck, the quiet, etc. There are plenty of SAHM in my neighborhood, but I found other working women too.

3. I like this jacket. It could find a place in my wardrobe for summer. I particularly like the collarless V-neck which opens up a lot of options for what to wear under it.

4. I lusted after this jacket until I saw it in stores. Didn’t particularly like the material- it felt thin cheap and scratchy.

5. How do you ask for help? I’m having a very hard time with depression and anxiety. I’m doing everything I can to seem 60-70% normal on the surface. I just don’t care any more, but there are people who need me, including a special needs child.

   I scheduled a routine physical because I remembered the mental health questionnaire that I’m typically asked to complete at the start of the appointment. I indicated on the questionnaire that I am having issues with depression in what I thought to be a significant way. The physical happened and the Dr. asked me to put my clothes on, stating that she would come back in and we would talk. I thought she would mention the depression then, but she didn’t. She informed me that I am now obese and that something must be done – I should see a nutritionist. I know people who have seen the nutritionist in this office before and she recommends things like Lean Cuisines with a side salad for lunch. I have a history of eating disorders and declined the appointment with the nutritionist. Old me would have seen the nutritionist to keep the peace – quid pro quo – but new me doesn’t have the energy. What became of the questionnaire? Did she think I was lying?

   I know it is my fault for not speaking up, and that I am responsible for my own care. I felt so awful when the Dr. didn’t address depression that I went outside, sat on a bench and cried. I felt as though I didn’t deserve to be helped. I’ve come close to calling other therapists but I’m afraid that I will break down just making the appointment. I’ve done a few sessions of talk therapy before but I really dread them. I think that I need medication, but god forbid I gain more weight. I can’t go back to this primary care Dr. I suppose if it were bad enough I would call. I’m still functioning in society, but inside I am a mess. It takes me 3 hours to complete tasks that should take 30 -60 minutes, and I really don’t care.

   Has anyone dealt with something similar? I know I just need to find someone and make a call. Why is it so hard to take this first step?

   1. Oh pineapple. Your primary care physician sucks. And her nutritionist sucks. And lean cuisine sucks. But you don’t suck! Find a therapist and make an appointment directly with one and write down what you want to talk about and bring your list to the appointment (and you can hand it directly to the therapist if you don’t trust yourself to bring up all the topics on the list – I always get caught up in the moment at the doc and forget like half my list).

      Don’t worry about breaking down while making the call. It is literally their job to have you do that.

      1. Yes, yes to all of this! If you need help finding a therapist, people on here can usually recommend one, or you can look up referrals on Pyschology Today (that’s how I’ve found some in the past!). Please don’t worry about crying when you make the call, that’s okay! Sending you all the interwebs hugs.

   2. Hugs to you!!!

      Do you have a spouse, friend, or family member in whom you could confide? That person could help you to call the therapist and make the appointment. If not, you have taken the first step just by posting here! You know this is important – you already were able to get yourself to the doctor, even if the doctor didn’t pick up on the screening.

      We are pulling for you. Please call the therapist and make the appointment. Please lean on your friends and family if you need help in the meantime. Big hugs!!!

      1. If you are having trouble getting an appointment you (or a friend) can call your insurance company and tell them that you need to find an appointment. They will find someone who has availability.

         1. You could also try your EAP if you have one. That is what I did when I was so depressed that I would have a breakdown every time I called a therapist and was told she was not accepting new patients.

   3. I am so incredibly sorry that this happened to you, and please know that you’ll be in my thoughts. I’m appalled at your PCP; do not think that her failure to do her job in any way reflects poorly on you, or that her inability to follow up with your concerns is your fault. You absolutely, 100% need and deserve help to handle your depression and anxiety, and I think it’s a reflection of your strength that you know that you need to get help with this.

      If it’s helpful, let me tell you how I ended up in therapy last summer. I, too, have a history of ED (PS. Don’t see that nutritionist if her idea of proper nutrition is Lean Cuisine. Can’t. Even.), put on some weight, and was kind of peripherally stressed about it but kept it in check for a couple of months. Then one morning I went to put a skirt on, it was too small, and I dissolved into hysterics in the middle of my bedroom. I pulled myself together, got out the door, and then started s0bbing again in my car on the way to work. I pulled my car over on the side of the road and called my university’s mental health clinic, still basically unable to get two words out through the tears. I was really afraid that I would get judged hardcore, but the very kind receptionist immediately connected me to the 24-hour on-call therapist, who was able to talk me down and help me make an appointment. So…yes, it is hard to make the first step. But these people are trained and they are professional (and if they’re not, you don’t want to go to them). If they didn’t judge me for basically being only able to sob into the phone on the side of the road for about three minutes straight, they will not judge you for calling and asking for help, even if you do break down on the phone. You can do it. Stay strong, keep doing what you need to do to get through the day, and get yourself the help that you need. It’s hard but it’s the only way forward.

      1. +1 on the value and acceptability of breaking down in tears on a call to a potential therapist.

         I had a similar experience calling my university’s health plan (years ago) and they got me in to see someone *that day*. The receptionist recognized that I was in dire straits and needed immediate help. This is what they are trained to do. I saw that therapist for a few sessions of “evaluation” and then she referred me out to someone else for longer term counseling.

         The idea of calling an EAP if your organization has one is good, too. An EAP could probably also get you someone to talk to right away, and then refer you out.

         Internet hugs to you! You definitely deserve help and it can be maddening to take this first step when things are so challenging. Maybe a friend or loved one can help with the calls?

   4. I’m so sorry your are going through such a hard time.

      It is almost always this hard to take the first step, and you are trying. Your doctor dropped the ball. I have seen this happen more times than I’d care to admit…. Physical exams these days are becoming less thorough, and questionnaires that don’t get read are the norm. Questionnaires allow doctors to “bill” for a more thorough visit, but it infuriates me that your doctor didn’t see your red flag.

      My first thought is…. does your primary care doctor know you fairly well? Has she been following you for a period time? And is she basically a decent doctor? If so, I would schedule a follow-up appointment with her and try to focus only on this issue. Then main reason is that it saves you the time and effort of having to set up a new relationship with a new doctor on your own. Your doctor may be able to start a medication now, and then refer you to a more experienced counselor or psychiatrist for your next appointment.

      I realize it is still very hard to schedule this appointment. But at least the first step…. calling to make the appointment, involves no discussion of the issue so it is a stepwise process. If the receptionist asks you about why your are scheduling a follow-up, just say “stress” or “mood” or whatever word is easiest to get out of your moth. Then… prepare one sentence to say to your doctor once you get to your visit, and let her ask the questions from there. “I am struggling with my mood…..” or “I am so anxious….” or “I am so stressed”. It is tempting to tell her that you had hoped she would ask about this at your prior visit, but that may be too hard to get out.

      You can do this. Make the call. It can get better.

   5. Do you have any one to support (come with you) to appts? Depression sucks your mental and physical ability to function. It helps to have an advocate with you. I would write up a list of questions and what you want to say ahead of time and ask for a referral for psychiatrist/psychologist. I know from experience you won’t even want to crawl out of bed, but you’ll need to try again. If your doctor blows you off, it’s time to find a new one. Do you have workplace employee assistance program? That may be the best place to start. Hang tough–you do deserve to feel better.

   6. That really sucks. Your doctor should have brought it up, and it’s awful that she didn’t. As someone who has had luck with medication, and no luck with talk therapy, I understand why you’d want medication, which you can’t get from a therapist. Do you have any way you can email your doctor and explain what you said here? Or email to get an appointment set up specifically to discuss your depression?

      When I was at the place where you are now, I called several mental health centers and was told they wouldn’t have appointments available for months and treated pretty badly. Then I called my doctor’s office/insurer (I have Kaiser Permanente, so they’re kind of the same), by this time a complete sobbing mess, and explained I needed to see a doctor about getting medication for my depression. They got me in very quickly, and my doctor wrote me a prescription for Zoloft after just a few minutes discussion. That morning of calling mental health clinics was one of the worst mornings of my life. I wish I’d started out by calling my doctor and stating straight out that I was depressed and needed medication.

      Sorry, this is really long and rambly.

   7. Coming out of lurkdom to rage at your doctor!! Grrr!! And to give you a million hugs!

      Oh my gosh! Scheduling the physical in hopes of having the doctor ask about the mental health issues on the questionnaire is TOTALLY something I might do, and I am SO SORRY your doctor didn’t pick up on it. And then to add fat-shaming on top of that? I want to just strangle her!

      It’s so hard to make the call because (a) as you have seen, not all health care providers are as good or competent as we wish, so there’s a risk of a less-than-great outcome, and (b) you’re depressed and that makes everything harder.

      Do you have an idea who you need to call next? Can you do it today, while we are all here supporting you, and come back and report in so we can all cheer for you? Please? I’ll be waiting here hoping you’ll come back and tell us you’ve made a call.

      BIG HUGS!! I’m so so sorry this happened!!

   8. Yes, something like this did happen to me. I keep typing out the details but it’s all very upsetting. You are not alone.

      Keep looking for help. Fight your insurance if you have to. Remember that mental health is health, and your health should be the #1 priority in your life. Remember than your BMI does not tell the whole story and focus and being healthy for YOU and not a number that some doctor told you was right or wrong.

      I also understand the helplessness of dealing with special needs family members. I struggle every day with this, despite having found decent help. It continually causes my family hurt and pain and I also deal with the guilt I feel about having these feelings. I don’t know if the same is true for you. I don’t have a good answer.

   9. There is lots of good advice for you here, so I won’t add to it. Just wanted to say that your doctor is awful, and I’m so sorry you are going through this.

   10. I think everyone else here has great tips! You are absolutely worth it and you should seek help! Just to alleviate one of your fears, there are anti-depressants out there that do not cause weight gain (I am on Lexapro and have had no issues with weight gain). It’s just a matter of finding the right one for you and a good doctor can help you do that. But please put your concerns about your weight aside and get yourself some help for the depression first. Addressing your weight (with a good nutritionist who does not push Lean Cuisines) will be much more manageable if you are in a healthier mind set.

       1. I’m pretty sure I lost weight since I was out and about enjoying the world instead of at home in the dark eating pasta. But that was a side benefit.

       2. I definitely lost weight on Lexapro, because I was doing more with my life than sitting in my house feeling miserable, watching reruns of bad TV.

   11. Thank you so much for all of the replies. They have helped more than you know. I feel less alone, but at the same time a bit… sorry? … to know that many others have had the same struggles. There is no one in my real life that I can/will reach out to for help so again – your responses have been so kind.

       1. Just another note to the chorus of take care of yourself & so sorry to hear you’re going through such a tough time. Also, I think you’ve done the hardest part already, which is realizing you need some external help and you’re looking to get it. Do that for yourself & I hope things get better for you.

       2. I got great advice here once that if you think you won’t be able to explain it all to your doctor, write it down when you are at home (or just printout what you wrote above) and hand it to the doctor. Works well especially if you are crying, or if you are trying to talk yourself out of how depressed you are or downplay it. I’ve done it, its better than being put on the spot as to why you are there.

          1. This is genius. Also helps make sure you won’t forget something important in the heat of the moment.

       3. I am so sorry your PCP is a turd and didn’t help you with this.

          I have worked through depression and anxiety in my life multiple times. I have used a combo of therapy and medication on and off for almost 20 years. I would be happy to be a real life contact for you to email, etc., when you need someone to talk to. You can email me at countc[thissite] at gmail any time.

       4. SO many people struggle with depression. We just don’t like to talk about it, as a society, and since it’s less cut-and-dry than most physical ailments, insurance companies don’t like to pay for it, and many mental health care professionals are under-trained and overworked. You are absolutely not alone, and I am incredibly proud of you for reaching out for help like this, both to us and to your doctor, even though your doctor didn’t address it. You will absolutely beat this, with an attitude like that.

       5. Pineapple, I think I recognize what you mean when you say you feel sorry that other people had the same experience. When I was struggling with depression, it was too easy to focus on the glass half-empty. It seemed like it was quixotic to bother to try to get better (with therapists, medication, effort, etc.) when the world sucked so bad anyway. But that was just a symptom of the depression, and I did find good people to help me through, and the right medication.

          Starting with a therapist helped a lot, though–I don’t think the talk therapy per se helped, but having someone there who coached me through what to do definitely made a difference. My psychologist referred me to a psychiatrist, and told her what was going on before I went in, which made the process so much easier.

          Good luck. It will get better.

       6. Everyone has given great advice, I just wanted tell you’ve I’ve been in SUCH a similar situation and feel like I’m just seeing light at the end of the tunnel. I also struggled with asking for help- who to go to, how to care enough to even reach out to someone. I finally broke down at work a couple of months ago and called my employers EAP number. The first call I got no where- the person answering was new and somewhat clueless and after 30 min I just hung up. Took another week or so to call back, but this time I reached someone wonderful- she could hear in my voice that I was almost in tears, and offered to put me on with a licensed counselor at that moment. I declined, but got a few names of nearby therapists to see. The first person I saw I just didn’t connect with- she just seemed to be clock watching and it felt like a waste of time. I didn’t make another appointment but decided I was going to try one more time. I called one of the other therapists and I’m so glad I did! We connected right away. I’m still seeing her, and while nothing happens overnight she helped me get a little perspective (I’ve had a rough couple of years- a death in the family, job loss, break up etc- I felt I should have bounced back sooner, she said to give myself a little more kindness …) and most importantly she’s helped me realize I won’t feel this way forever. Please keep trying until you find someone who you can talk to. I’ve done talk therapy and medication in the past, and I think both can help, but I felt the fastest impact from talk therapy- medication takes 4-6 weeks I believe minimum, and it helps to have someone talking to you in that first month or two. I took Wellbutrin- no weight gain (tends to cause weight loss). And while you are looking for help- and please don’t be discouraged by your primary care dr- what helped me just get through the day were very very basic things: sleeping at least 6 hrs a night, eating at least 3 meals a day, staying hydrated, and being outside a little every day (even 10-15 min). Exercise is a lifesaver but sometimes seems like it’s too much when you’re really struggling- try though, even a little. Those little things seem so simple and basic but for me at least I wasn’t doing them… I’d eat a ton, then nothing the whole day, or drink a lot of coffee and nothing else… Go back to the basics as your foundation. Also try writing out your day- include only must do things + easy, doable tasks (ex- get up at 7:00, make bed. Breakfast at 8:00, shower, etc…. I’ve rambled but please please trust this is the hard part – starting. It will get better! And your weight will be much easier to manage when the rest starts happens in but for now just reach out- you deserve to be happy and you will be again

   12. Pineapple, I’m so sorry this happened to you. Your PCP sucks, as others have mentioned, and she is clearly biased against people she perceives to be overweight (unfortunately, not uncommon among physicians), since it is beyond irresponsible to ignore your depression…and assuming she knows anything about your history of EDs, to recommend you see a nutritionist without being under proper psychological care.

       Honestly, I think you will probably need a combo of talk therapy and meds (seriously, with a history of ED, I wouldn’t advise meds alone…I speak from experience with both). Depending on your insurance, I dont’ think you’ll need a referral for talk therapy, and if you find a good one they can refer you to someone who can prescribe meds (FWIW, I also wouldn’t recommend meds long term, just to get you stable enough for talk therapy to help). I know you’ve had a bad experience, but there are really good therapists out there (and also really bad ones). The recommendation, and I know it’s hard, I’ve always gotten is to see 2-3, and go with the one that clicks the best. This isn’t necessarily the one that’s the easiest to get along with (in fact, it’s probably not), but the one who challenges you and brings out insights that you may have missed…but does so in a way that makes you want to respond instead of shut down. Get recommendations, but know that what works for one person doens’t work for another. And also, even though it seems like your primary concern right now is depression, look for people who specialize in ED/body image issues and depression. These things go hand-in-hand, and even if you’re not worried about the ED issues now, they can come up over the course of your therapy. The last thing you’d want is a therapist who talks about diet and exercise with you as a way to cope with depression if some strong body image issues start to arise.

       Good luck. Depending on where you are, I may be able to provide you a rec or two.

   13. You can also try zocdoc dot com to schedule appointments with a psychologist, therapist, ect- absolutely no human contact needed. They’ll filter by your insurance, location, and you can see their availability so you can schedule online. I know my anxiety completely gets in the way of me being able to get on the phone and schedule an appointment.

       I’m so sorry about your awful experience at the doctor’s office. I know how terrible it can feel to have your heart on the line and send out an SOS, only to have nobody address it. I hope you get the help you need! Anxiety and depression are an awful double whammy.

6. Anyone else feeling desperately and continually single? I think the wheels just came off what I thought might be a really great thing with what seemed to be a really great person, and–ugh. It’s not even this specific situation, just the perpetual grind of having relationship after relationship fail to work out.

   This was really not the way I wanted to start my day.

   1. Yes (well, more just continually single…. I dread dating). Hang in there. We’ll get an awesome cat ranch together if it comes to that.

      1. This.

      2. Not single, but would really love to get in on that cat ranch.

         1. -laughing at the idea of someone trying to herd cats.

   2. Yes, all the time. I hear you. The grind has really gotten to me lately as well. And “breaks” from dating don’t work either- because I feel the same the second I get back out there, after months off. Even going to a bar with friends reminds me of my singleness- either everyone is coupled, or some annoying guy tries to flirt with you, or blows you off, or your plans with friends always have to accommodate their relationship schedules which you do not have…sometimes it feels like the world enjoys constantly reminding me what other people have and what I do not have.

      You are not alone. :/

      1. +1 to the idea that even when I am not actively thinking about being single, it pops up because literally everyone I know is coupled off, and every situation I am in seems to be one where I am the only single person. This is very different at 33 than it was in my twenties, where the balance was the same (most of my friends coupled off early), but I just didn’t care as much.

         Edited to add: I now find it funny that my handle (which refers to my practice) also refers to my love life. :)

   3. Yup. Same here. Hugs to you.

   4. I feel this way all the time. I’m 27. Still single. Still waiting to find the right person. I’ve been dating someone for 3 months now. It’s going well. But who knows. I try not to beat myself up over it. I’m looking for a good match and I’m not willing to settle. Plus everything is not always as it appears. Your happy coupled-off friends are probably miserable and are stuck in the relationship rut where schedules and s3x are utterly predictable.

      my advice: stop worrying. just live. and have lots and lots of fun. the grass is always greener. but me? I’d rather be alone than settle.

      1. I agree with most of your post, but jeez. We’re not all miserable, predictable and stuck.

         1. I bet you’re fun at parties.

            1. She’s making a valid point and was not a jerk about it. Why does this earn her the snarky no-fun label? Bet YOU’RE a lot of fun at parties making b itch face at everyone.

      2. I don’t think the single people vs. married/partnered-up people conversation is productive at all. Let’s stop measuring our personal satisfaction on how our lives compare to the lives of people around us.

   5. Yup – especially when you go to weddings alone or can’t seem to get past 3-5 dates with a new guy. And I agree – it’s not that person but the fact that it’s yet another person in a line of relationship failures.

      The only thing that helps me is reminding myself how lucky I am to live on my own and do my own thing i.e. I can totally eat wine and cheese for dinner and watch awful TV and get to party hop on the weekends instead of taking into account someone else’s schedule.

      Hugs to you – hope you feel better about your situation!

   6. Totally agreed! To the point that scientific/non-superstitious me is now mulling in my head the prediction my ‘psychic’ co-worker made that I’ll meet someone on my trip to Australia in the fall…

   7. Kind of related. Can someone please invite me to the relationship facebook group? e-mail is pdgracie28 at yahoo dot com :) Thanks!

      1. Welcome to the group! We’ve been less active lately but post your story and we will celebrate with you, vent with you, and commiserate with you!

         1. Oh, please invite me, too! How can I send you my email address not publicly on this page?

            1. There’s a relationship facebook group!?

   8. Not sure if this helps, but are a three things I miss from my single days:
      1. Being able to make plans with a friend without having to consider the impact on my so
      2. Getting up really early on Saturday morning to go for a run and quietly read the paper
      3. Cereal is a legitimate dinner, if I feel like it

      1. 1 I can understand, but 2 and 3- how on earth does having a relationship preclude you from doing these things? Genuine question, because I see this raised all the time and I never had that concern when I was in a relationship.

         1. Agreed. I’ve been married for almost 10 years, and I always get up at 6 a.m. on weekend mornings to run.

         2. 2) is a compromise I’ve made to preserve our time together on weekend mornings. I run, but after brunch (which we both enjoy).
            3) we eat together and we never both feel like a cereal dinner.
            I fully admit that these are compromises I’ve chosen but that someone else might prioritize these and pick different things to bend on.

         3. A relationship doesn’t inherently preclude me from staying in bed all day watching Pretty Little Liars (my version of waking up early to run) but it still doesn’t happen as often as it did when I was single.

         4. And this is exactly why the facebook dating group is essential… because the smug marrieds have taken it upon themselves to show that being paired off is better – you can have everything you have when you’re single PLUS a man.

            Way to be empathetic ladies

            1. I don’t think people are obligated to say “Oh gosh, you’re right, my life sucks now that I’m married and I am totally jealous of my single friends and I never have sex” just to make people think they are “empathetic”.

               I can feel empathy for my friends who haven’t found the right person yet without lying to them that I’ve had to give up my whole life and everything I enjoy as some kind of ‘sacrifice’ for being married. In fact, I think that would be nonsensical. I’m agreeing you shouldn’t settle. I didn’t settle either, which is why I was 35 when I met my husband. And he’s great. And I didn’t have to abdicate everything that made me “me” just to get married. That’s WHY I married him.

               Not to mention NONE of these posts were REMOTELY “smug”.

               Sheesh, bad attitude city out of you, anon 1:06.

            2. Point being that if you have nothing to say on being single and feeling crappy about it, there’s no need to respond and say that I can still do X even though I’m married. I’m really happy that you found someone you can still be yourself around but those stories aren’t helpful when someone is feeling badly about their single status.

            3. Yeah. I’m in the same boat- had no trouble finding and maintaining great relationships with great guys in school and grad school, but now that I’m working all the time I’m really struggling to meet people as I settle into my late twenties. Plus the vast, vast majority of my friends are in serious relationships or married. The smug married trope is true, and it’s really annoying. It gets tiring sitting through another dinner/drinks outing where everyone is talking about weddings, babies, the houses they’re going to buy, issues with husbands, vacations they’re going on with their husbands…. I have little to nothing to add to these conversations.

               It also gets really tiresome to hear people tell me that instead of having a fulfilling relationship with a partner in life, whom I love and adore, and regular s3x, I should be happy being able to watch trashy TV whenever I want. No, it doesn’t help to tell me that you miss eating cereal for dinner. Really? Here, I’ll take dual incomes, regular s3x, a date to all these weddings, and a supportive partner, and you can have a bowl of cereal. All smug marrieds know you wouldn’t switch places.

               That said, I always try to remind myself that being single is a million times better than being in the wrong relationship. And it’s certainly not all bad. But that doesn’t change the fact that it gets really hard sometimes.

            4. The smug marrieds wouldn’t switch places until the marriage starts to fall apart but they can’t admit it’s time for divorce.

               Lots of married people are happy, but lots of them aren’t. I’ve been the latter. As a single person, what most of us want isn’t just to be married – it’s to be happily married. Having been unhappily married, yes, I would have traded places with a single friend in a hot minute (in part because you can admit you’re single and unhappy about it – it’s harder to admit that you’re married and unhappy about it).

   9. Thanks, ladies. Keep ’em coming. I always remind myself that 1) I would rather be alone than with some of the fools my friends are dating and that I have, in fact, dated myself; and 2) I have a rich and fulfilling life, full of good friends, family, and a loving dog, and many things that I enjoy, even without a man-shaped person. But sometimes it wears a little thin.

      1. This is how I feel, exactly. I feel lonely and sad because I’ve been single for so long, and realize I may always be this way. But then I look at the men some of my formerly single-for-a-long-time friends have started dating, and I remember all over again that I would rather be alone the rest of my life than date guys like that. And I remind myself again of all the wonderful things I have in my life, for which I am truly grateful. And then I feel lonely and sad again, and the whole cycle keeps turning…

      2. Also, things can change very quickly, assuming you’re in your 30s or beyond. I’ve known many long-term single friends (like, many years) who met the right guy and were in happy relationships seemingly overnight. That can happen for you, too. I know it’s hard to feel hopeful when things keep not working out (believe me, I know — I’m in the same boat), but I do find some hope in the fact that it does seem to eventually happen for other people, even if it takes much longer than we’d all like.

         Sometimes I tell myself, okay, what if you knew you were going to meet a wonderful man who was perfect for you, but not for four more (or however many more) years? What would you do in the meantime? Then I go do those things. Because that very well could happen, and there would be nothing I could do to change if/when I met him, so I have to just live my life and try to feel hopeful.

         1. FWIW, this happened to me — largely single through most of my 20s & 30s, turned 40 & met the love of my life shortly thereafter. We wouldn’t have been right for each other in our younger years.

         2. me, too! long stretches of singledom in 20s & 30s, met my future husband at a random party when we were both dating someone else, at 39. Other guy dropped me not long after, FH broke up with his GF, and within a year, we were talking marriage.

            Like anon at 1:29, we wouldn’t have been right for each other earlier. In fact, we may have met in grad school, but looked right past each other…

      3. Life is just too short to be sad about the life you wish you had instead of embracing what’s in front of you. I know it’s easier said than done, but I think regardless of your individual situation (whether it’s that you’re single but want a partner, in a dead-end job, or paired up with a partner you are having problems with but can’t or don’t want to separate from, etc.) you have to start maximizing your happiness out of the things you can control.

         1. Eh, virtually everyone under the sun says this, but I think that hearing that message is actually one of the most tiring things about being single. When you get to the point in life at which your friends have moved into a lifestage that you wish you were at and you’re started to feel, so to speak, time’s winged chariot hurrying near, it’s legitimate to feel sad about that. Sometimes you just want to admit, without being perceived as some caricature of a desperate single woman, that going through this life without a partner is wearing on you, even if you’re generally happy.

            1. +1. Generally happy, but always feeling like I’m missing some big piece. That feeling doesn’t go away no matter how good a day I have. I had a big professional achievement recently and had no one to celebrate with bc my friends live far away. I got takeout and wine and toasted to myself, yes, but it would have been nice to have someone there.

            2. This, this, this. This is exactly how I feel, as a 30-something who has been single a long time. I am generally happy, have great friends, love my career, but no matter what, I feel I am missing a very large part of my life. There is nothing left I can do to make myself happier, and nothing to focus on that will make the feeling of loneliness/repeated failure to find my partner lessen.

   10. You are definitely not alone. Have you read Sara Eckel’s book, It’s Not You? I could have written every word (except not as well as she does!). I highly recommend it. While it doesn’t offer any instant solutions, it does help you change your perspective and feel better about accepting the way things are.

   11. I recently had a talk about this with my mom, after a birthday. I’m still in my 20s, but within the last 2 months, many of my friends have become engaged or expressed the “he is the one” to me, which sort of caught me by surprise. I broke up with a long-term boyfriend in the winter. I know it was the right decision, but it’s hard to meet people and suddenly everyone got engaged! And with the birthday (suddenly I felt MUCH older than I did days before) and the recent engagements (even though I am genuinely ecstatic for my friends to find such wonderful loves), I felt like I missed a window that was closing. That I was a sad spinster that everyone pitied. Or that I wasted my younger years when I should have been finding a husband. I was so sad about it and immediately my mom started laughing and reminded me of an aunt who, despite knowing her now-husband since childhood didn’t marry him until her mid-30s and then went on to have two sons. Her question to me: “Do you think she feels like she missed out because she got married later?” In other words, when you are in your 60s like my mom/aunt, getting married at 25 vs 35 doesn’t make that big of a deal. What matters is that it’s the right guy. And maybe that takes time, but so what! Enjoy what you DO have. I hope this helps! Her advice really helped me.

       1. I’m planning on being a spinster, and dying alone, only to be found three weeks later half-eaten by my dog-lady pack of Alsatians. True story.

          1. But Bridget found love!

   12. I also struggled with being single before I met my SO. This might not work for everyone, but one of the things that helped me was reminding myself that pretty much every “relationship” I entered into was going to fail or fizzle out, until one wouldn’t. It’s a backwards way of looking at things, but it did take some of the pressure off and gave me a new perspective. I’d go on a date like, “Is this guy going to be THE ONE?! Eh, probably not. Whatever. Let’s just go get a drink and have fun.” It also helped remind me that I really just needed to meet one right person (though it might take a long time or not be all that fun in the process). Not dozens of them, just one.

       Also, while I really love my fiance and the life that we’ve built together, I also miss the following things about being single/living alone:
       1. No one giving me a hard time about all of the trashy reality TV I watch.
       2. Alone time whenever and wherever I want it.
       3. Less conflict/compromise. My life was simpler, because I could do whatever I wanted when and how I wanted to do it. When you’re living with someone else & trying to figure out how to run your lives together, disagreements come up and compromises have to be made. It’s worth it, obviously, but it’s not also easy or fun.

       1. “When you’re living with someone else & trying to figure out how to run your lives together, disagreements come up and compromises have to be made. It’s worth it, obviously, but it’s not also easy or fun.”

          My SO and I live together, and when these disagreements arise and necessitate compromises, he calls it “Keeping the Peace Between our Tribes” :)

   13. Here’s my recommendation.

       Watch a WE tv show called “Bridezilla Marriage Boot Camp.” I think there are episodes uploaded to youtube. Couples formerly featured on the Bridezillas show are, shockingly, having difficulties. They are now staying in a house for a period while they work on their relationships.

       I may have been in a similar funk a few months ago. This reminded me that, while I may be single, at least I didn’t make _those_ mistakes. ;)

       Hope you feel better.

   14. Yes. I have an OK time meeting and casually dating people, but once it gets into that 3-6 month mark, where you have to ask yourself “do I really see myself with this person forever, or am I just coasting with what is comfortable/easy/fun?”- it all falls apart. I’ve had the forever feeling before at the wrong time, so I’m just staying open to the opportunity to return at the right time.

7. I mentioned yesterday the original art site 20×200 dot com. They have a sale through next Monday 7/21, 20% off $60 or more with code RIDONK.

   1. hahaha hilarious promo code!

   2. I want to take advantage of that mainly because that’s an excellent code.

8. Should have asked this yesterday on the suit thread. Has any one purchased pants from Theory lately? I’m disappointed that there’s more poly in the mixes now. Any thoughts on this?

   1. I have a pair recently purchased at the outlet. I can definitely tell on hot days that there is more poly in them (as compared to my J Crew pants) but OTOH they are a slightly heavier weight than the J Crew ones, which will be good for the cooler seasons. No comments on durability yet.

   2. I have – I was really disappointed. I have an old theory suit (circa 2004/2005) & some pants from that same era and the new ones are horrible in comparison. The quality is similar to the Gap’s perfect fit trousers and they’re about 10x more expensive. I’m sad. I loved the quality of old Theory.

   3. If by recently you mean 4 years ago… I had gained weight after buying 2 pairs of Theory pants and just now have lost it and can wear them after nearly 4 years so they are new to me and they do contain polyester but have great drape and I love them. They are flattering and comfortable and — best yet — dog fur does not stick to them (said by someone with 3 dogs and frequent fur on pants…)

9. Wondering if anyone has recommendations for my 8 year old niece? I’d like to send her a few books; she just mentioned that “reading” was her favorite subject last year. She’s bright, outdoorsy & also pretty girly (loves her bracelet loom thingie a lot). I was thinking maybe the Little House series or Anne of Green Gables? Are either of those too advanced or too easy?

   1. I think those would be perfect. I would also suggest Frances Hodgson Burnett (The Secret Garden in particular, also A Little Princess) and Robin McKinley (The Blue Sword, The Hero and the Crown).

      1. +1 What about Island of the Blue Dolphins, Nancy Drew or the Boxcar Children? If she’s outdoorsy, she may also like some adventure.

   2. Along the same lines, the Betsy-Tacy series.

      1. This, definitely this. I also loved The Boxcar Children, All of a Kind Family, and the American Girl books at that age. My brother loved the Magic Tree House books at that age, as well. I was a little older when I read Little House and Anne of Green Gables, but if she’s a good reader I don’t think they’re too old for her. I think Island of the Blue Dolphins and Robin McKinley may be a bit old for her, but they’re great books to keep in mind for when she’s ten or eleven.

      2. Third Betsy Tacy!

   3. Anne of Green Gables (the whole series- LOVE- age appropriate but will also develop her vocabulary and reading skills). The Saddle Club series (if she likes horses, and I think it’s less girly and more girl power-y than Babysitter Club/Sweet Valley High). Chronicles of Narnia (not sure, might have to wait a couple years on that), of course Harry Potter (I think 8 is a fine age to start that series, though books 4-7 might want to wait til she’s a little older).

      1. +1 Harry Potter!

   4. I love browsing http://www.amightygirl.com/ my oldest just started reading so I’m getting many lists ready

   5. Anything by Roald Dahl.
      From the Secret Files of Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler.

   6. American Girl books; Nancy Drew. Things my 9 year old has enjoyed this summer: The Name of This Book is Secret (series); The Girl Who Could Fly; The School for Good and Evil.

   7. These are all such great suggestions – I’ll add some of my favorites to the mix. Maguerite Henry’s Misty of Chincoteague and follow-up books are wonderful. I also loved Noel Streatfeild’s Ballet Shoes and Theater Shoes (also published as Curtain Up) and Lois Lenski’s Strawberry Girl and Cotton in My Sack.

   8. Swallows and Amazons! I was that age when I was given them and loved them

   9. The Mrs. Piggle Wiggle series!

   10. Loving these replies. Bringing back happy memories…loved all those books.

   11. Those are perfect, along with every book on here. More: The Borrowers, Harriet the Spy, Catwings, The Phantom Tollbooth, Roald Dahl everything. If she loves reading, she might be reading above her grade -her parents should know. If so, or even if not (it’s good to stretch kids’ reading a little),some books I liked: The Girl Who Owned a City, The Enchanted Forest Chronicles, A Wrinkle In Time series, Redwall.

       And don’t be afraid to give her classics! I’m pretty bummed I had to go back and read the classics as an adult, when I have so much less time. She’s not ready for Hemingway yet, but voracious readers need an adult to guide their reading as they go through middle and high school, or they’ll end up reading the entire body of Piers Anthony’s work because it’s at the beginning of the adults’ stacks at the public library.

       1. Oh, I forgot the Enchanted Forest Chronicles. I loved those when I was in 2nd grade (and might, hypothetically, still reread them every couple of years…)

          1. They are unabashedly on my periodic YA-reread shelf, of kids’ books I still actively reread, along with Homecoming, Narnia, Abhorsen, Wise Child, His Dark Materials, and Harry Potter (most of which are too dark/old for an 8-year old).

       2. Hey hey hey, nothing wrong with a little Xanth in one’s life :)

10. Sorry about the repost

11. I’m on the hunt for some nice black linen trousers, preferably under $150, with pockets, and with a fly instead of a drawstring. Any ideas? I had a much-loved pair from J. Crew that ripped horribly last week, so I’m wary of going back to J. Crew.

    1. Their styles are hit-or-miss, but J. Jill does lots of linen.

    2. Try Anthropologie. They had a few trouser and capris styles last I checked.

    3. I just got a pair from NYDJ that seem nice. They have a bit of stretch, so not 100% linen.

    4. Just saw these online this morning: http://bananarepublic.gap.com/browse/product.do?pid=950753012&vid=1&locale=en_US&kwid=1&sem=false&sdReferer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bananarepublic.com%2Fproducts%2Fwomens-pants.jsp

       Lucky sizes, but a great price (especially if you can combine with another purchase and get the 35-40% discount).

    5. These have good reviews: http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/nydj-wylie-five-pocket-colored-stretch-linen-blend-trousers-regular-petite/3688341?cm_cat=datafeed&cm_ite=nydj_'wylie'_five-pocket_colored_stretch_linen_blend_trousers_(regular_&cm_pla=bottoms:women:pant&cm_ven=Linkshare&siteId=J84DHJLQkR4-YgJhOb.AuRr1ypA3mcV0ZQ

    6. Uniqlo. I just bought a few pairs of ankle khaki linen trousers for a work trip to saudi arabia and they’ve been a godsend with the heat

12. Any Tulsa ‘rettes out there? A good friend recently moved there and is looking to meet other smart, fun women.

13. All,

    I am completely checked out mentally at work. I’m a second year associate at a biglaw firm, and I have interviews with 1) another law firm in a different practice area and 2) a non-law corporate position related to my current position (i.e. an m&a consulting type of job) later this week. I have already been utterly bored with my current job (hence the interviewing), but this week it has reached its peak. I know that much of this is due to the impending interviews, but how do I get motivated while interviewing elsewhere?

    Also, I may eventually need advice on which job to take should I get an offer–since they’re both so different. Wish me luck, though!

    1. I went through this recently (although I just moved biglaw to biglaw). I tried to do more fun stuff during the workday (grabbed lunch with an associate I hadn’t seen in a while, grabbed froyo with a friend in lieu of my typical 4PM coffee break, organized a happy hour to look forward to after work). Then I set hard deadlines for myself (if you don’t finish X by Y time, you won’t have time for lunch/froyo/whatever).

    2. I’m hearing you on this. I’m bored and burnt out (yes, at the same time). Just walked out of an interview and am really hoping this might be it.

       Staying engaged? I’m making to-do lists. I’ve even let myself do a few things that would help with the moving on process (organizing computer files, updating policies & procedures). I’m to the point I’m inventing things to do just to stay engaged. I’m also spending time keeping updated on news and trends in my field that are applicable to my current job, but also good prep for a potential change.

       Good luck!

14. Has anyone dried their placenta into pill form and eaten it?

    It seems popular among my somewhat crunchy mom-friends, and I’m thinking about it.

    1. I’m pretty crunchy, so I briefly looked into it. There is no scientific support for any of the claims made about it plus the ick factor is pretty high for me, so, no.

    2. no personal experience, but a blogger (elefantitas alegres) did so and recapped in some detail (I admittedly skimmed that post). Should be in the April/May timeframe IIRC.

    3. oh. my. god.

       I’m a doctor, and pretty shocked.

       I’m all for saving cord blood if you’re into that. But eating your own placenta is just wacko.

       1. Just eat your mate if you’re into the cannibalism thing. :)

          1. Seriously…. I can understand why the animal world does this, as you don’t want any nearby protein/nutrients to go to waste in the wild. But my goodness, we’ve evolved, haven’t we? Just because animals do it, doesn’t mean we should.

             Wait for the randomized controlled trial on this one.

             Although, I admit…. I am a big fan of the placebo effect. So if you wanna do it, go for it. Just don’t tell anyone about it….

       2. It’s not common in the US, but I beleive it still is in other cultures…so please don’t pass such rude judgment. That said, it’s not common in my ethnic culture, so I know nothing about it.

          The idea is that the placenta has a lot of vitimins and nutrients that you are likely deficient in after childbirth. I have no idea if they are better absorbed than multi-vitamins, htough.

    4. With no disrespect intended, the idea of doing this made me throw up in my mouth a little.

       I had no idea this was a thing, and I wish I were still so blissfully ignorant.

       1. If you think the pills are bad, be fortunate that none of your friends have taken the “blend it up, freeze in ice cube trays, and pop a cube or two into their morning smoothie” route…

          1. Ha. A friend of mine did that. Swears by it. Actually freaked out a bit when her placenta ran out because she believes it really helped her regulate her hormones after the fact. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

    5. I don’t have children, but my best friend recently had a baby and did this. She is definitely not the “crunchy” type but she recently moved to CO and apparently it’s a pretty common practice among her friends and at the hospital she delivered at? Anyway, she took them for about 6-8 weeks and said she didn’t really notice a major difference, but she also didn’t really have much to compare it to (it’s her first kid, so it’s not like she could speak to the experience of not taking them).

       You should have seen the look on my face when she told me. I still don’t think I’ve recovered.

    6. I’m 39 weeks pregnant, and I’m having it done. My healthcare providers told me that it seems to help some women but not others; that’s what I’ve heard from friends too. There are no studies showing it helps. I’m doing it because I have super-low progesterone, and there’s a lot of progesterone in the placenta; I’m hoping it will even out my moods during the post-partum period. I do wonder if the processing diminishes the nutritional value.

       I don’t find the dried pills gross, so for $200, it’s worth a try for me.

       1. I did it and I feel it helped ward off PPD (until I ran out). It’s very common in Chinese culture, and was recommended to me from a law school friend (whose husband is from China). I felt that taking my placenta gave me a lot of energy.

    7. Having seen my placenta… I really cannot imagine eating it, in any form. And I’m generally not at all squeamish about organ meats or anatomical things.

    8. Wish I had not seen this as I was eating lunch.

    9. I don’t have children.I am sorry if some one gets offended, but I am just grossed out. It is beyond my imagination. I am curious to know why people want to do it.

    10. I am a physician that works in this area. With the disclaimer that what you choose to do with the placenta is solely your decision, I would add that if the baby needs some medical help after they are born, we will typically ask for the placenta so that our pathologist can look at it to obtain any information potentially helpful in treating the baby. (I certainly hope that your baby is just fine and doesn’t need any extra help; I just wanted to let you know about that possibility.) For the record, I have seen all sorts of people do all sorts of things with placentas. As long as it doesn’t adversely affect their child’s care, I don’t pass judgement. One thing that I’ve learned in this business is that new parents are all having the same life-altering and momentous experience, but everyone’s experience is going to be unique based upon culture, background, gender, etc. and no one is in a position to pass any judgement about something so highly personal. The wonderful common thread is that the vast majority want the best for their child (I love that about my job.) Congratulations, BTW!

        1. This is the best comment I’ve seen on the internet in awhile. I want to reply with this comment to all parenting decisions.

15. As title implies … But just wondering if anyone can recommend a good divorce attorney in/around New London, CT. Thank you if you can.

    1. Yes. I have one who might be able to travel, otherwise could recommend someone.

       Please email me (diana barry r e t t e at gmail, all one word) and I will give you the name.

       1. This would require someone local. I’m a little confused, do you have a recommendation for both? And, thanks!

       2. I have a rec for someone who does practice in that county (and others) but if that person isn’t able to take the case, he/she could recommend someone else.

          1. Thanks! I will email in a bit.

16. Has anyone used a Life Coach? I have a dear friend who is going through some major decisions in her life – she moved back home to be close to her mother (her dad recently died) but she is not happy in her hometown from a social standpoint. She is single and it is hard for her to meet people. On the other hand, she feels tremendous guilt about not living close to her mom, who is needy. She also needs to decide relatively soon whether to join as a partner in her medical practice, which would keep her tied up in her town for a long time.

    I feel that she could benefit from talking to someone – not so much a therapist, but a life/career coach who can talk to her about the pros and cons of staying in her town from both a personal and professional standpoint.

    She lives in Tulsa. Any ideas?

    1. I used a career coach and liked it, but I had only career questions. Might be worth a try: http://lyjnow.wordpress.com/

17. I’ve been in my current position for about a year. My husband was sick with a cold all weekend so I knew this morning when I woke up with a runny nose and sore throat that I had caught his sickness. I went into work because I have things that need to be done by the end of the week. And to be honest, I’ve never considered calling in sick for a minor cold – I’ve always just worked through it. My boss heard me sneeze twice and blow my nose (his office is across the hall from my office). He stopped by and said are you sick? I said I feel a little cold coming on. He told me to go home and not come back until I’m 100% better. I said, but this stuff is supposed to be done by Friday. He said not to worry about it. I feel like he has an irrational fear of germs. He’s probably touching sick people germs 50X per day on various surfaces. Is this normal people behavior? Do you go to work when you have a minor cold (and keep yourself locked up in your office)?

    1. That doesn’t sound normal but really is probably healthier. I tend to try and power through and end up dragging it out.

    2. When your boss says go home, go home! It’s not irrational — I kept getting sick this winter from coworkers who kept coming to work sick!

       Feel better soon!

    3. If I stay home the first day a cold is coming on I can usually get rid of it that day. If I go to work, it will hang around for weeks and also get everyone else sick.

    4. Only if I have to – so, would depend on what needed to be done (i.e. is it a brief that I must file with the court by x day), and whether I could do it from home. Generally I hate it when others spread their germs, so I try to show the same courtesy if possible.

    5. Go home. I’m with your boss. People should stay home when they’re sick. If you can, work from home. Otherwise, just get better & stop spreading your cold around the office making everyone else sick.

    6. Agreed. Go home. He may be shaking hands with people, but that is quick and remedied by hand-washing. It’s harder for him to escape your cloud of germs if he works near you. Don’t be offended. I recently attended a networking event and someone there clearly decided to skip sick feelings and I got sick as a result. I was incredibly angry because I wanted to visit my friend’s new baby that weekend (preemie), and couldn’t with even a hint of icky feeling. Maybe your boss has prioritized being healthy so he can spend time with grandkids. Or just doesn’t want you to make everyone else sick. You can bet I was wishing that sick person hadn’t attended that networking event!

    7. If I have a cold, I come in and just keep my office door shut.

    8. Late to add, you may not know it but your boss or coworkers could have autoimmune diseases or other reasons that they could be immuno-compromised. Maybe your boss is protecting himself or others from a preventable risk.

    9. I have gone to work with a minor cold before, which turned out to be more like a major cold, and when it got pretty bad, my boss just told me to go home, so I did. I just spent the whole day drinking lots of water and napping – which I think helped me get better faster if I was trying to work while I was sick.

       Hope you get better soon~!

18. Any advice on how to respond to an email out of the blue from another company offering you a job? I wasn’t looking for a job, met the guy once at a professional event and honestly, I am not interested in the job. Do you just ignore the email? Or respond with a brief “thanks, but no thanks?”

    1. I’d do the “thank you for thinking of me, but I am not looking for a change right now” type email.

       1. Ok. Thanks!

       2. Absolutely. One day you may want that job or another job with that company. Or may just want to keep in touch with that person. Don’t burn a bridge!

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