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Workwear sales of note for 6.02.23:
- Nordstrom – The Half-Yearly Sale has started! See our thoughts here.
- Ann Taylor – $50 off $150; $100 off $250+; extra 30% off all sale styles
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 25% off purchase
- Boden – Sale, up to 50% off
- Cole Haan – Up to 50% off select styles; extra 20% off sandals & sneakers
- Eloquii – 60% off all tops
- Express – 30% off all dresses, tops, shorts & more; extra 50% off clearance
- H&M – Up to 60% off online and in-store.
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off “dressed up” styles (lots of cute dresses!); extra 50% off select sale
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything; 60% off 100s of summer faves; extra 60% off clearance
- J.McLaughlin – The Sale Event: extra 30% off
- Loft – 40% off tops; 30% off full-price styles
- Sephora – Up to 50% off select beauty.
- Shopbop – Up to 60% off sale
- Sue Sartor – Lots of cute dresses on sale!
- Talbots – 25-40% off select styles
Other noteworthy sales:
- CB2.com – Up to 40% off; pop-up sale up to 30% off
- Joss & Main – Up to 60% off, plus an extra 20% off with code
- Tuft & Needle – Save up to $775 on mattresses (Reader-favorite brand; Kat really likes hers!)
- West Elm – Up to 25% off in-stock furniture; up to 60% off clearance
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
- Favorite comfy pants for an overnight plane ride?
- I’ve got a nasty case of tech neck…
- What’s a good place for a relaxing solo escape?
- What’s the best commuter backpack?
- I’m early 40s and worry my career arc is ending…
- I canNOT figure out the proportions in this current season of fashion…
- How is everyone wearing scarves in 2023?
- What shoes are people wearing to work between boot and sandal season?
- What’s a good place for a relaxing solo escape?
- What are some of your go-to outfits that feel current?
- I need more activities that are social, easy to learn and don’t involve extreme running/jumping/etc.
I’m envious of those of you who can wear heels of this height. I think my max is 2.5 inches, maybe 3 if at a nice evening event for only a couple hours. These shoes are really gorgeous.
What is everyone else’s max heel height?
My everyday height is 2″, but I can do 3″ for an evening out. I’ve tried higher and I just look stupid.
max is 3″ for work (but usually stick around 2.5″) and 4″ for going out (the highest heels I own are about 4.5″ and are completely unwearable for me).
Erin @ Girl Gone Veggie
This exactly for me. When I see girls wearing 6 inch heels I wonder how the heck they can do it.
Oftentimes they don’t! Teetering around on heels that are too high for you is not an attractive look.
A Nonny Moose
4″ for work or going out. My go-to pumps are 3.5″ although I usually wear flats to work (heels only for big days) and I commute in flats.
ETA: A lot of the super high going out shoes you see probably have significant platforms, which help a lot.
2ish for work (but not for a full day!) and 3″ for an evening. Or 4″ if they are platform espadrilles. Not more than 3″ in the heel itself, though.
I think its just what you are used to. and not all shoes are created equally. some of my most comfortable heels are 4 in.
I wear shoes of all heights to work — from flats to 4.5 in (w/ .5 in hidden platform). The most comfortable ones for me are actually 1.5 in or 3.5/4 in, but NOT 2-3 inches. I also have the hardest time with pant hems on those mid-ranges heels.
I also think that higher heels can exacerbate back problems etc…so it might depend on your skeleton.
Typically 2.5, up to 3 with a wedge or block heel. I can do 3.5 for evening events.
Also drooling over those shoes! They’re gorgeous. But they would inevitably join the sad, neglected collection of 3.5+ stilettos gathering dust in my closet.
Love these, too, for anyone looking for outdoor wedding shoes: http://www.lastcall.com/Pour-la-Victoire-Briella-Snake-Suede-Wedge-Sandal-Orange/prod21610000___/p.prod?icid=&searchType=SEARCH&rte=%252Fcategory.service%253FNtt%253DPour%252Bla%252BVictoire%2526pageSize%253D30%2526No%253D30%2526refinements%253D&eItemId=prod21610000&cmCat=search
I wear flats about 75% of the time, and the 25% spent in heels is in ones that are 3.5-4″. I could do up to 4.5″, but I’m 5’8″ so I don’t really need to have that much of a towering presence.
I don’t wear anything in the 1-3″ range. That little of a heel just does nothing for my proportions, so I’d rather have the comfort of flats.
I can do 3 to 3-1/2 inches, but rarely do. I wear flats 95% of the time and if I do wear heels to work I stick with 2 or 2-1/2 inches. I have a lovely collection of heels I never wear though and it makes me a bit sad but my feet happy.
I usually wear 3-4 inches at work, and one of my pairs has a 0.5 platform – that one is super comfortable. I also own some 2 inch heels but it all depends on my pants… I wear heels 3-4 days a week, but always commute in flats.
These are gorgeous but too high for me. I wear heels all day at work but 3″ is my max and most of my heels are closer to 2.5″ I have higher heels that I’ll wear for more formal occasions but they really mess up my lower back. Completely flat shoes are uncomfortable for me as well and even my “flats” are usually an 1″
I wore 5 inch cage heels to work yesterday.
Awesome. I wear 4-5 inches to work all the time too.
Usually 2.5″ to 3″. I’m really tall and anything more than that is just showing off. Still working my way back into heels after an ankle injury. I am pretty thrilled to make it through the day at 1.5″ now. Still in flats or under one inch 95% of the time.
I can do 3-4” in Cole Haan Airs. But sadly they are no more. I will probably not exceed 2.5-3” with any new shoes. I am so, so sad about CH stopping its Air line.
About 3.5″ max. I prefer 3″ but especially like a small platform (1/2″ to 1″) to keep the heel height a bit lower. But, I commute in flats and/or sneakers, and I can’t wear anything more than about 1 1/2″ for short walks outside the office (like to lunch or dinner).
2.5 is about right for me for all-day workwear. I will occasionally go to 3 or 3 1/2 with a 1/2 inch hidden platform – about once a week. Usually switch to flats for a walk at lunch time or if I have to walk 4-5 blocks to an offsite meeting. Tried higher, couldn’t do it except for one really great pair of green 4.5 with a .5 inch platform sandals in a previous life where I could wear sandals to work.
I can do 6 cm if it is a stacked heel with a 2 cm platform
Oooooh! I totaly LOVE the burgundy! I have to order in size 5, but MUST clear with the manageing partner first, and he is out with his freind’s in the HAMTON’s and I do NOT want to be a pest! FOOEY!
I am busy billeing now for the and have onley gotten 246 hour’s so far this month, so the manageing partner will NOT be happy b/c the judge is goeing away and he will NOT be abel to add extra uplift to my billeings while the judge is away.
On the good side, however, I DO have Mason billeing out at 70% of my hour’s so all he need’s to do is take my hour’s and multiply each by 0.7 to get the # of hours he is to bill on each case. The manageing partner has then only to add his 0.25 uplift to get the firm billeing rate on each case.
The manageing partner’s brother is in the office — to bad he can’t approve the shoes for his brother. When he just poked his (bald) head in, he looked just liked the manageing partner. He is spending to much time here in the office, and I now think Myrna is right about him. FOOEY!
These shoes are high! I think I’d only like them with pants.
On to my more pressing issue: does anyone know why the iPhone always auto-corrects ‘of’ to ‘if’? Also ‘id’ to ‘if’… Everything is always if, if, if…. I don’t want to turn off auto-correct altogether but this drives me bonkers.
I turned off autocorrect. Yes, it’s slower but autocorrect sends me over the edge.
Ok so my friends are having the first baby of our group and they’re having what’s called a “baby pool” – you guess the gender and size/weight and arrival date of their new baby and have to throw some $$ in for the privilege of playing. Is this normal? I have never heard of this before and to be perfectly honest, I don’t really want to do it but maybe I should just suck it up and do it if this is what parents do now?
Erin @ Girl Gone Veggie
Do you win money if you’re right or does it all go to the parents? I’ve never heard of this before.
The money all goes to the parents. I think I would be more willing to play if it didn’t seem like yet another money grab
But then what’s the point of “winning” the pool? The honor of guessing correctly? I don’t get this. Seems like a money grab.
Ugh, yes, money grab. Gross. Don’t encourage it.
Ick. I could see this being fun if the person who makes the best guess wins the money, but this is tacky.
My office does this for new babies, but the winner of the pool keeps all of the money (I always thought this was odd and that at least some of the money should go to the new mom).
Assuming that the winner gets the pot, I don’t have any problem with it. I might not participate because I think it’s dumb. If the parents were keeping some of the money, I’d absolutely be opposed to participating.
I agree it’s not creepy, and it’s also not new – this is a time-honored office game, but I always understood that the winner took the cash, not the parents.
I’ve heard of playing this where the winner takes the money from the pool. If it were the parents arranging it, for the parents to get the money: I would politely decline.
I did that for my friend’s shower. It was fun. We had an email chain going updating when someone’s date had passed and who was still in the running. The winner kept the money though.
A Nonny Moose
Yeah I think it’s cute if the winner gets the money. Would not play if parents got it! That’s nuts.
+1, we did this at a couples shower and the guys were SERIOUS. They were doing everything in their power to win, including delivering spicy food near their date and inviting the couple over for scary movies.
I don’t think it’s what parents do now, it’s just something some people think is fun. If you don’t you can def skip it.
My dad did a family pool on when my niece’s insanely long-lived loose tooth would come out; the winner got bragging rights but the money went to the niece. However, she was seven years old and not the instigator of the money grab.
I don’t understand all the answers saying its a money grab. The money is for the couple who is having the baby so they can get things FOR THE BABY. Its a cute, fun, harmless thing. Its not like its a giant windfall of cash to the parents. I’ve also seen it done in offices where its a 50/50 split between winner and parents (again, FOR THE BABY).
I’ve only seen it done where someone other than the parents to be arrange it, so it really is like a little gift to the parents for baby expenses like diapers or whatever. It seems sort of old timey and cute to me to present the parents with a little cash for baby expenses.
Wow. How is it NOT a money grab? Asking people for straight up cash, even if it’s FOR THE BABY, is the definition of a money grab.
And what is cute or fun about it? People are paying for the privilege of guessing when the baby will be born? You don’t have to shell out cash to do that.
+1 This often happens in my office.
The parents do not arrange or instigate this so its not a money grab. They are not asking for it. The pot in my office goes 50/50 to the winner and the parents (although the more senior people in the office will usually donate the winnings to the parents same as any other 50/50 draw -usually for charity).
That said, at my level, I would not be comfortable with someone running a 50/50 draw for me if I was pregnant. It’s more for the admin staff/junior folks.
It doesn’t matter that it’s FOR THE BABY (x2). The parents are having THE BABY. They can buy things themselves, FOR THE BABY. In addition to the shower they will no doubtedly to get gifts FOR THE BABY.
You sound like a money grabber. It’s TACKY.
Lol. Absolutely to this.
If it’s done without the parents knowing or having any input, that’s one thing. That’s obviously not a money grab. It’s another thing to knowingly help out with a pool like this and then get all the pool money, as well. I reiterate – what’s the point of playing in the pool if you’re not going to win anything? It’s like having a March Madness bracket contest and giving all the prize money to person organizing the contest.
If the parents are organizing, it is definitely a money grab. If someone else organized it, well then it’s still a little strange, imo, but not offensive. Asking for straight up cash for having a kid is not cool and if any of my friends did this I would not participate.
+1 – no kids myself so no skin in this game but it sounds completely harmless and how much money can you possibly be talking about to constitute such a vitriolic “eww money grab” response? I don’t get it.
does brooks brothers run big, small, or tts?
tts to small, I’d say. Blouses and button front shirts are more tts; bottoms run small (comparing to JCrew sizes).
Make sure you pay attention to what cut of jacket/pants you’re buying. Stellita fit jackets are way tighter than Classic fit, so you may be TTS in Stellita, but find Classic to be too large.
Depends on material. My pants are enormous and have to have them tailored for a second time. It was their summer knit or something. Nice and light, but holy moly. I’m a 12 in their dresses (and at most other stores) and wish I got an 8.
Also their shirts are either classic (boxy), fitted (slightly curvy), tailored (for those who are more straight-up and down). And Black Fleece is sized differently than their “normal” line–check the size charts.
I was recently passed over for a promotion for the sole reason that I am “too young”, and was told that once I hit 30 I would be considered more seriously. I have been performing the job in the interim for a few months now and was just informed they are interviewing someone else for the position. The interviewee is younger than I am with less experience. Would you say something? Or just silently start looking elsewhere? This is quite a surprise after I have been receiving rave reviews of my performance and assurances that my age was the only problem.
Can’t hurt to express your interest in the position again, and ask what you need to do to be taken more seriously for the promotion. But if I were you I’d start looking.
Is the interviewee male? (Or is there some other possibly discriminatory basis — e.g., you are a minority religion, e.g., and the other candidate is not?) If so — and if the interviewee actually gets the job — looks like a pretty solid discrimination case.
If you’re in a company big enough to have an HR department, and if you want to fight this, you could make at least an informal complaint now.
Or start by going to whoever’s in charge of this hiring and saying what you’ve said here — you’ve been getting raves and were told the only reason you were passed up for the job on a permanent basis is your age, but now you’re surprised to see them interviewing someone younger and with less experience. (Double check your facts to make sure this is actually true.) Say as non-confrontationally as possible that you are genuinely confused and want to know if there is some issue with your application for the promotion other than age and any deficiencies that you should be working on. Then see how the company responds before deciding on the next step.
where is the discrimination if they are looking to hire someone younger than her? I admit its weird that they chose a possibly discriminatory reason to give her, but from what she says, it reads like they just didn’t think she was up to the job.
If she’s under 40, it’s not discrimination to hire someone younger than her simply because the other person is younger.
Depends on the state. Some states prohibit all age discrimination including the “you are too young” kind.
Jules did not reference age as the basis for discrimination. She asked if the other candidate was male or if OP was of a minority religion (which could potentially be a basis for discrimination).
Yes, if the interviewee is male or other non-minority status AND younger than her, the reason they gave her (her age) is bogus and it’s discrimination. If the interviewee is younger than her and also female/other minority, she’s just getting the runaround and she should a) ask to interview again, and b) look for another company.
My point was if the company told her she was not promoted because of her age but they then give the job to someone even younger (and less experienced even), then obviously it is not her age that is at issue. Either it is her performance, meaning they were dishonest about how well she has been doing on an interim basis, or it is some other and more invidious reason. E.g.,, they really wanted the job to got to a man. Or they really didn’t want it to go the OP because she’s, say, Muslim or has a disability, or is lesbian or transgendered or has some other trait for which it is (or may be, as to the LGBT issue) unlawful to discriminate.
If it were me, I might say, “Well you said that I was too young before for this position, but now that you are interviewing someone younger with less experience, I’d like to interview for the position as well.” Depending on their response — or on if you still don’t get the job — then you’d probably want to look elsewhere.
“I noticed you are interviewing applicants my age, and so I would like to be considered for the position.”
I am sorry to say this, but this is a slight, regardless of the reason they are giving. And I know there are a lot of lawyers on thissite, but outside of legal-land, you can’t really force someone to promote you or take you more seriously than they are taking you.
I would throw in a non-confrontational query such as the one that Wildkitten suggested, and then gauge the reaction. Some places do have quite rigid criteria (experience-wise) for a job, which, in effect, translates to age. Just because you are doing great on an interim basis, they might feel that as more things come up over time, you may not be the right person for the job.
Therefore, I would be a good soldier in this case and ask politely. Judge the reaction, and then decide whether you need to be patient (because when they said “too young” they really meant “not experienced enough, despite recent coverage”) or you need to move on, because your superiors just don’t see you as the right fit for the next step in your chosen career at that particular company.
Sorry you are going through this. Being young and competent can be a real bugbear.
Does anyone have a recommendation for a good cleaning service or person in San Diego? The same person has been cleaning my house for years, but she is moving, so I am in need of a replacement. I’m afraid her shoes will be difficult to fill, and I haven’t found any good recommendations yet. I’m in central San Diego (South Park). Thanks in advance.
Did you ask your person for a referral? My mom has had maybe 4 cleaning people in the last 30 years, all found by a referral from the one who was departing.
I saw this article today and wanted to share. I don’t think we have ever discussed transgendered or genderqueer in the workplace. I think it’s a topic that makes many/most people uncomfortable.
This hit home for me. I have a genderqueer sibling (eg, someone who does not identify as fully male or female and prefers gender-neutral nouns/pronouns). My non-work friends know this, and some of my closest work friends (all people my own age– late 20s/early 30s) know, but I’ve never “out’ed” my sibling to my older co-workers or bosses. Probably, as you’ve said, because it makes people uncomfortable. On the other hand, I greatly love my sibling and they are a large part of my life. And I think people knowing someone who is gender non-conforming (or know someone who knows someone) can help remove the stigma.
I thought that article was interesting and some of the comments were also thought-provoking. This is the best thing I’ve read about trans issues lately (I love the baseball comparison): http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/07/10/do_trans_people_have_a_responsibility_to_educate_the_public.html
That is a great article; thanks for posting.
I have a coworker who transitioned recently, after working at our company for several years. I was surprised by how well she was treated – her manager sent around a notice about what was going on and reminding everyone to follow the company ethics guidelines, they changed her information in Active Directory, I never heard anyone say anything negative about it, and the world kept going like it did before.
Thought this was so on-point:
“Professionalism is a funny term, because it masquerades as neutral despite being loaded with immense oppression. As a concept, professionalism is racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, classist, imperialist and so much more — and yet people act like professionalism is non-political. Bosses across the country constantly tell their employees to ‘act professionally’ without a second thought.”
Did you read the comment (did you write the comment??) yesterday about thank you notes? That ties in to this.
no, not me
which comment are you referring to about thank you notes? I agree with your general point, but I went back to read the thank you note discussion and I’m not seeing a connection
The comment that thank you notes are just confirming that someone is a member of the appropriate groups (like, has a career office that told them what to do) and not that they would be good at the job. We pretend it matters, like we pretend acting professionally means something, when both mean you’re following arbitrary rules of class.
YES THIS OMG ALL OF THIS
ETA, now that I’ve read the article: Wow, what an inspiring human!
That paragraph really resounded for me too. Furthermore, I have noticed that expectations of “professionalism” seem to be enforced very selectively, along similar politicized lines. Culturally normative white men can get away with so much more than anyone else in most work settings. Yet the standards of professionalism are always cited as if totally value-neutral and without subjective bias.
Eh, just because a term is used as a tool of oppression doesn’t mean that it is inherently oppressive.
There are a number of “professionalism” rules that I think are appropriate and actually are neutral. If they are applied inconsistently, that’s a user problem.
Looking at pictures of the author, my immediate, gender-narrow reaction was “If you’re going to bother with pearls and lipstick, why not shave a little closer?” Then my reasonable self took over and said, “Why? Should a cis-woman with a mustache have to shave? Of course not.” The main problem (in gender) with professionalism is that there ARE different standards for men and women. Women shouldn’t be but are dinged for not wearing makeup or sleek hair in many professional settings (we’ve had discussions here about whether curly hair is professional), so if a cis-woman doesn’t confirm to those particular feminine rules, she’s not being “professional.” So if a woman doesn’t like to wear feminine accoutrement, her professional reputation suffers, even if she’s still falling within official gender norms. Some women do successfully wear traditional male clothing, tailored pantsuits, short hair, and brogues with a little makeup, but when you turn it around, a presenting male in female clothing, like the author of this piece, you get poor reactions.
TL;DR – the idea of professionalism should be across the board, and in interactions, it can be very neutral, but in practice, it ends up being very sticky and often unfair, particularly with clothing and physical presentation. (It’s unprofessional to be overweight, too, in many industries.)
Its funny that the shaving was your first reaction, I didn’t even notice the facial hair. I definitely noticed the short dress (too short for work), which I suppose is a reaction that comes from “the man” as well.
This quote is right on.
Anon for this
Professionalism in the workplace is all about certain social norms and mores. Yes, a number of those are based on offices being historically white and male. Others are not, or have evolved to still have relevance in more diverse settings. I think most progressive thinkers would agree that we need to accommodate and welcome the trans and genderqueer community. But throwing away all professionalism rules is neither realistic, nor–in my opinion–appropriate. To use an overused, tired trope, where do we draw the line? (Note: I am not advocating for drawing the line and telling people they cannot wear clothes to celebrate their personal view of gender, FYI, just trying to push the conversation a bit.)
Professionalism is about keeping certain aspects of your personal views and life out of the workplace so they don’t cause unnecessary distraction and disruption. Obviously, this is discriminatory in a number of cases. In others, it’s just polite. For example, as a woman I have breasts. I deal with them every day, and they are appendages on my body. Personally, I like the way they look because they add an aesthetic curve to my body. They are also life-giving to my children. So, I’m going to wear extremely cleavage-bearing clothing in order to celebrate my breasts. I want everyone else to celebrate them too because they are beautiful, wonderful things. Is this okay?
Another example – I’m a man who has strong personal views about wearing deodorant. I think it’s bad for my body to put unnecessary chemicals under my arms, so I prefer to go au naturel. Professional?
This is an extremely complicated topic that is based on a number of spoken and unspoken societal rules. There is a purpose to those rules, generally, and that’s to keep a certain amount of focus on the job and away from our personal lives. Honestly, I’m curious where many people draw the line on being allowed to express your individuality in the workplace. I think it’s a hard and complicated question.
I was pondering this myself and I’m not sure I know the answer, but – I think those are manners. Manners is knowing how to act so that you don’t offend or distract others. Tucking in your shirt? Making sure your socks are the right color for your shoe/pant combo? Those don’t matter and that’s professionalism. Professionalism, like sock color and thank you notes, are arbitrary because those are the rules. Manners are important for making other people comfortable.
Very well said.
Very well said Wildkitten. Because the deodorant example applies to all jobs where one works with or near other people. It’s just polite. Thank you notes and matching your belt to your shoes and wearing 1.5″ heels for interviews (but not flats or 3″) is ‘professionalism.’
Anon for this
What about revealing clothing? Or clean and ironed clothing?
Apologize in advance for a mom question, please skip over if not interested.
I’m wondering how to tell my team that I’m pregnant. I’m not worried about telling my manager, and that has been addressed here before, but my question is about people who report to me.
I manage a team of 10 (in 3 locations, one of which is mine). It’s not the most pleasant and friendly team, I’m relatively new, female and younger than many who report to me, and I’ve had issues of questioning my authority, aggressive and resentful behavior etc. from some members of the team.
I should probably break the news to the whole team – all locations – at around the same time. But I’m starting to show so the people in my location will probably notice first (if not, I’d want to delay for as long as possible). I want to be very professional and businesslike in my announcement, alleviate any concerns that I don’t intend to come back, and at the same time don’t want this to increase the perception of me as a “mommy” as opposed to a professional and continue with the same tone of respectful interactions (I’d hate to get questions about my pregnancy, etc. which may further erode my authority).
Do I need to tell them at the same time as I tell my boss (who also is in my location, so may notice my expanding waistline sooner than later)? Any other guidelines?
Even if your boss is basically a discreet person, once you have divulged the news, you have to assume it will go public. When you are ready to tell your boss, it might also be good to tell the rest of the team within a day or two. Delaying by a few weeks won’t change your level of authority or the team’s perception thereof.
Maybe I’m in the minority, but I’m strongly in camp of not having to “announce” to people like the team of people who report to you until such time as you need to make contingency plans for your leave with them. If you’re friends/friendly with them, tell them in that vein. As a professional matter, I am strongly in favor of the “mind your own business” approach. If you start showing, they’ll know. When it gets close to leave and you’re ready to make plans for who will handle things, let them know at that point – obviously with enough advance warning that they can account for transitions, etc. I’m just really private about this kind of thing though. A formal “announcement” just makes me uncomfortable.
I’m with you Maddie Ross, I’m a very private person also. But the thought of people speculating and whispering in the kitchen (dramatic, I know) when they see me looking big seemed worse than a very dry, dull announcement from me. Not in the vein of “Hurray, I’m so happy I’m pregnant” but more of “Just an FYI, I’m pregnant, will be taking leave in x month.”
Nothing you say will make those people think differently. I wouldn’t tell the people in other locations except when necessary to prepare for your temporary departure.
Do you have any kind of long range planning meetings with your team? If so, just add your projected maternity leave to that calendar, and discuss it in the same way you would with anything else that will affect the business but is months away.
ANON in CO
I told you guys yesterday about how I was too scared to take a pregnancy test because I was scared for it to be negative. I just got enough nerve to take one, then the second, then third. Positive, positive and positive! I can hardly believe it. I feel over the moon lucky that this happened the very first month. Thank you all for the positive thoughts yesterday. My husband will be home in a hour – any fun ways to break the news to him?
Congrats! I just met my husband at the door, holding the positive test and showed it to him without saying anything. But we’re really romantic like that.
Full House style – make him a meal of baby carrots, baby corn, and baby back ribs and ask if he notices anything unusual about tonight’s dinner.
Make sure to play pictionary after if he doesn’t get the message!
Tell him!! In words. 100% promise the news itself is fun.
What are the hive’s thoughts on wearing an engagement ring to OCI?
Interviewee or interviewer?
If you are interviewer, then wear what you want!
If you are interviewee, I think it’s the classic lawyer answer – it depends. I’ll never forget a female partner I know saying that everyone noticed when an associate got engaged because they couldn’t help but gush and flash the big rock around. This partner herself has one of the most gorgeous rings I’ve ever seen but doesn’t wear it everyday to work. Note that this was speaking about associates who already have the job. Also note that she didn’t say they were specifically dinged or looked down upon, but that it was noticed. Take that to mean whatever. (And who knows how the men viewed it.) On the other hand, you could take the approach that if a firm/interviewer noticed and thought twice about your candidacy then that’s not a firm for you. Alternatively, maybe the ring isn’t as flashy as the “big rocks” flying around this particular office. I guess go with your gut.
Why wouldn’t you? They likely won’t say anything.
I wouldn’t. This is just me, but there’s still way too much sexism, and in way too many older male employer’s minds, “engagement ring = about to get married = about to have a baby = going to take maternity leave a year after I hire her.”
No, it’s not fair and it’s not right and it’s discriminatory but I wouldn’t wear it.
(former) preg 3L
I hate to +1 this, but in the firms I’ve worked at, that’s how the old male partners (and, honestly, how some of the younger men also) think, even if they don’t say it out loud. They think it. Don’t give them the opportunity. Wear it all you want after you get the job.
What are you asking exactly? Should someone take off their ring to interview?
I wore mine because I was interviewing for jobs in a location where firms are hesitant to hire people who do not strong connections to the area, due to concern that summer associates want to basically vacation there but have no intention of working there after graduation. My only connection to the area was that my then-fiancé, now-husband had grown up there and his family still lives there, so he would have come up during the interview anyway.
I would not wear it. Interviewers at OCI can speak to 8-10 candidates per day, they will remember people by what stands out in their mind. Girl with an engagement ring, guy with the price tag on his suit, etc. If you want to completely neutralize the playing field, do not risk it. They have no need to know of your future marital plans and not wearing the ring is the perfect way to ensure the do not discriminate.
Unless as posted above, you think there is an advantage (shows you have roots/intention of staying or it’s a very family-centric firm) or you think it will go over completely neutral. But in general, when in doubt…
(even though as also posted above, it stinks, stinks, stinks)
I wore mine to a job interview for my 1L summer and I really believe it was part of what got me the job. I was interviewing for a business development role and I was significantly younger than the other people they hired for the program. As I was leaving the interview room, I held open the door for the interviewer, she very noticeably glanced at my ring, and I got a comment about how I must be mature for my age. Got the summer associate position and got the full time job.
Man, I do not get that; there is no maturity test before marriage.
I also experienced the “you must be more mature” reaction from interviewers when I opted to keep my ring on, and it did help me land my current role. Like it or not, someone who marries younger than normal is often perceived as settled and responsible, especially for men.
That being said, I removed my ring for interviews on a case-by-case basis since it can be a double-edged sword for women (you’re either mature or you’re going to be pregnant soon) and I was careful to only wear it when I thought it could be helpful for a particular interview. Sometimes I would just flip it around so that it appeared to be just a plain silver ring, and thus attracted less attention, if need be.
On the other hand, it could be a way to screen out firms where you’ll experience sexism. So maybe not something to do if you have average grades and only a couple interviews, but if you have 20 interviews you might not care if a few of them ding you for this stupid, discriminatory reason.
Also, any guy that is going to see a ring on a woman’s finger (engagement, wedding, whatever – most guys can’t tell the difference any way) and immediately assume she won’t be a good employee because she’ll be taking maternity leave soon will probably leap to that same conclusion about any young, apparently heterosexual woman regardless of ring status, because statistically she’s likely to get married and have children at some point. My gut is that a ring matters less than lot of people seem to think it does (unless it’s really huge and then you should not wear it – but that’s a somewhat separate issue).
I posted this morning about being lonely and single. I decided to make myself feel better by finalizing Christmas with my family in the US Virgin Islands. Who needs a boyfriend when you can have a frosty drink on a beach in December?
I love this plan and am 47 layers of jealous!
How are you doing this afternoon/evening?
Have you taken any steps towards making a call or two for help?
Please post even baby steps so we can cheer you on!!
Just want to say, I think this “checking in on each other” is one of the nice things about this s!te :)
Good to see you Senior Attorney. I was feeling bad about my plateaued weight loss and I remembered you saying “You cannot hate yourself thin” and felt much better about myself. I was thinking about you this morning and wondering that I don’t see you posting here much these days. Hope you are doing good and settled in your new home .
I also am a HUGE fan of that sentence. I use it with myself. I use it with friends. It’s such a good and true thing to remind myself of.
Also love that phrase! Have used it myself many times and even swap out a different “ideal” conditions (ex: “richer”) for “thin.” Nice to change the inner dialogue sometimes. Thanks for sharing the wisdom– haha!
Paging Pineapple #2
Pineapple, hang in there. We are sending positive energy to you.