Coffee Break: Small Margot Crossbody
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Happy Thursday! The lovely blue color of this small crossbody is calling my name — and it's a bestseller over at Bloomingdale's. I like the large ring detail, which somewhat reminds me of a bull (or a punk's) nosering, but in a good way. The leather looks sumptuous, and if you're on the hunt for a crossbody around $2000, you're in luck: this one is only $1,750. Nordstrom has it in the black; Neiman Marcus and Zappos have it in several colors as well, and Rue La La has a few colors on sale — but it looks like only Bloomie's has the pictured blue leather. Small Margot Crossbody
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Sales of note for 3/26/25:
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Intern help please! My very sweet intern has a habit of sending thank you notes after assignments, sending text messages saying how much she looks forward to coming back to work on Monday, etc. It feels genuine and I think she just is trying to express her appreciation for a highly competitive internship, however, it’s not professional and will do her a disservice in her career (legal) if she continues these behaviors… I want to help her, but how do I tell her that?
Does she do anything else that’s not *bad* but unprofessional? Compile a list and take her to coffee. I would not bring the written list, obviously, but that way you won’t be wishing for other examples when you actually sit down face to face.
I don’t have a good script for how to convey, but I’m sure someone will–this board is great at that! Please do tell her, though! It’s the only way some of us can learn the social side of professionalism.
That sounds awful–going out to coffee with the boss only to be ambushed with a list of criticisms? It would be better just to address the issues in a low-key way as they arise.
I’m anon at 2:18. You’re totally right. I do think someone should tell her, though.
I would do this coffee thing as well (and maybe even set it up once a quarter if you’re truly interested in training/mentoring). Giving her cues on when to use email vs. text, what does/doesn’t belong in an email body, when to hit reply vs. reply to all, when to say thanks vs. when not so as not to clog inboxes–all of these things are sort of taken for granted when use them day to day but are softer skills that are invaluable for navigating professional communications. If I were an intern, I’d appreciate learning them and any other guidance on workplace norms, such as proper ways to set up and review financial reports, proper ways to hold a meeting, etc. etc.).
Yes, you’re doing a kindness by telling her. Just tell here that there is no way on earth that men would do this and all it does is set her apart as a female (which we all know never helps)
Why is she texting you at all? How does she even have your number? That’s weird. Saying thank you a lot…eh, it comes off a little intern-ish, but she’s an intern, and I don’t think it’s that big a deal.
It’s like an actual thank you note – not like a thank you at the end of an email delivering the assignment. And yes – unfortunate that she has my number, but she asked in case she’s ever running late/has another issue and needed to communicate. I didn’t know how to say no when she asked…
Ok, yes, an actual written thank you is very weird. Definitely talk to her.
And keep in mind that she may have gotten bad advice from her career center or another source, so all this thanking may not be her idea. We had something similar go on in our office at one point, and it turned out that one intern’s buddy had said he should do a particular thing that we thought was weird, then the habit spread between the interns as they tried to make sure they were ticking all the possible boxes of “professional” behavior.
I don’t think it’s weird that she has her boss’s number at all. I’ve had my boss’s number everywhere I’ve worked for the past 10 years and will text if I’m sick or running late or whatever.
That’s not weird at all. I’ve had my boss’s cell phone number for at least the last 3 jobs I’ve had, for the same reasons as Curly.
I would casually but bluntly mention it at the end of a discussion of something else, like an assignment. Something like, “oh by the way, there’s no need to send separate thank you emails or text messages, unless it’s a genuine emergency.”
How long is this internship? If it’s relatively short, you could say something at the end as part of the exit; then it’s not the awkwardness of having to see someone to whom you’ve given feedback who may or may not appreciate your feedback or agree with it. As for what to say — I’d be pretty direct and tee it up as a male/female issue because I think that’s what it is (moreso than just a – you’re annoying me issue). My script would be something like — “I view the role of this internship substantive work experience but just as importantly prepping you for next internships/real jobs and the professional world. One thing I’ve noticed is that you express gratitude too much. I appreciate it definitely, but what you’ll realize is that no male intern/associate would say thanks for an assignment or an opportunity and certainly not more than once in the course of a job/internship, so by doing that you’re setting yourself apart in a way that will be perceived as “too nice” which is something all female lawyers need to be aware of. Reality is when you’re in a job, you don’t need to be thanking anyone for giving you work because you are simply doing the work you were hired to do.” If it’s a long internship and/or it’s driving you crazy, then you can even say this now. I’d control the timing though — say it on a Friday afternoon/late day so she has time to sit with it, doesn’t have to see you for a few days etc. Because there’s always a chance that a female like this is a crier. (That’s why feedback always works best at the end of an internship — you’ve said it, they can do with it what they want, but you don’t have to see them anymore so no awkwardness.)
Or if you don’t want to go this route and it’s more about irritation – be blunt. Just say – “look I appreciate that you appreciate this internship, but there is no need for thank you emails and texts for every assignment; I have enough of a backlog of emails/texts that I don’t need anyone adding to it with non substantive emails. I AM aware that you are appreciative of this opportunity but you can keep your focus on the work, not on showing appreciation. Thanks.”
I think it’s kinder to tell her ASAP. I always freaked when I got negative feedback at the end of an internship, it made me feel like I’d blown the whole thing. Better to tell her now so she feels like she has a chance to correct the behavior and leave a positive impression.
I wonder if the career center told her to send an email at the end of “the assignment” meaning the assigned internship period…. and the misunderstood student thinks it means at the end of every assigned piece of work? Noo….
I think you can just directly tell her that you are glad she appreciates the opportunity but that the best way to express that gratitude is through her high-quality work product (which, hopefully, her work product is strong enough that you can compliment it as showing her commitment to the organization).
Let her know that the thank-you notes and texts can be a bit over-the-top and are also unhelpful because you can’t distinguish between the work she is really enthusiastic about and when she just feels the need to say thank you. (If, for example, she sent a thank you email after you gave her a cool project in her area of interest, the thank you may be a fine way to signal her interest, but doing it after everything is strange).
Also, there may be some Imposter Syndrome motivating this: she may feel like she just lucked into the competitive opportunity. It may be helpful to remind her that she was selected because of her strong application and that she does not to feel like she was gifted something she didn’t deserve. And, if she is interning without pay, remind her that you appreciate her volunteering her time and talent. Feeling like she belongs could help dial things back?
As long as you don’t act like you are annoyed with her and instead just tell her that you want to show her the ropes of projecting a professional persona, I don’t think you should be too concerned that you will hurt her feelings. Learning the social norms within a profession is just a skill (and one that is not typically absorbed by sitting in law school classes). In many ways, giving feedback on professional norms should be similar to giving feedback on writing– “Here are some things that are working well, here are some things to improve. With that said, you need to develop your own personal style. And don’t worry, you are doing just fine in your path to becoming a lawyer.”
This is good advice. My mentor (male) did this but also made sure I had chances to develop my own style. I always felt mentored, never condescended or in trouble.
As a former intern who could sort of see myself doing this, it does sound like impostor syndrome + not understanding, plus possibly an upbringing thing- “Show appreciation and say thank you when people do nice things! Make sure to send thank you notes!” I would phrase it as “I’m glad you’re liking these assignments, but you should not give me a thank you note or text me thank me. It’s not something a man would do, and (if this is true), your good work speaks for itself.” Do this while you’re giving her an assignment, in person. Say it kindly, but make it clear it’s not a “oh, you! you shouldn’t have!” but “do not do this.” It doesn’t seem like a big deal, and making it a big deal seems unnecessary. Make it clear it’s not that she’s “in trouble,” but that you want her to know this going forward.
I don’t think you even need to frame it as “something a man wouldn’t do”. It’s the difference between a social and a professional environment. And the message you are trying to send is that TY notes are an exceptional occurrence in a professional environment – as in, there are some instances where they are warranted, but in general are not required.
Part of the reason for an internship is to learn professional norms, and right now she’s breaking them.
I was just about to say this. Imposter syndrome is a soul-sucking creature that rears its head up in weird ways–and excessive gratitude is one of them. I am currently in my first internship and even though I’m decently aware of it, I still have to work to reel back expressing anything that could be perceived as being too grateful and make me seem out of place. The boys at the internship all walk around like they own the place (until they make a mistake) completely unaware of how young and inexperienced they are, and even though I find it a little annoying (they aren’t disruptive or inappropriate, just undeservedly self-assured) I know it’s what will get them further in life than thanking everyone they come across for every opportunity. Excessive gratitude implies there’s some reason you don’t belong, and will start looking for reasons for that sentiment to make sense if it’s put in their heads.
I’d want someone to tell me. I wouldn’t want it to be an event (coffee would be uncomfortable) but maybe a time, in private (*not* in public and especially not around peers) where they could explain that the internship was earned based on skill and ability, and that quality work conveys plenty of gratitude. Also, this may just be me, but if you’re an older/respected person in the workplace, you could always just go for helpfully blunt, (“Hey kid, word to the wise, knock off the thank you notes. It’s making you look unprofessional. It’s okay to be grateful, but you don’t have to act like we’re giving you charity–interns are some of the cheapest labor we can get, so if anything we’re grateful for your willingness to do what our salaried workers won’t do.”). It’s a lot less tactful, but direct isn’t a bad thing. I’d absolutely hate to just go along not knowing I was shooting myself in the foot.
“You need to stop sending thank you notes and texts like this. I appreciate the sentiment but it isn’t appropriate for an office.”
Incorporate as part of regularly scheduled feedback sessions. With interns, I usually have some time set up every two weeks.
We are redoing our kitchen (and some bathrooms) to make it more accessible (it really only works now for very skinny people b/c there are some pinch points and is not accessible at all to anyone using a walker, etc.). We replaced a 30″ stove about 8 years ago b/c it had become mouse-infested and we had concerns about our then-toddlers putting their hands on hot electric burners (replaced with GE Cafe gas model).
In the remodel, do we cabinet plan for a 36″ model (fancier)? Our ‘hood has substantially appreciated since we bought our deferred-maintenance almost-teardown, to the point where the redone houses sell for ~$1M (SEUS city, so this feels pricey to me). And I feel like people now, in this area, expect fancy kitchens. I feel that if we cut cabinets for a 36″ stove (and donate our current 30″ stove to Habitat reStore), then if it’s not fancy enough for the next owner, they can drop in a 36″ Viking if GE isn’t fancy enough. But I can see how 30″ isn’t sufficiently grand and cabinets are pricey so I want to get this right the first time. 48″ seems like overkill for a 4BR house where I’m the only real cook and then mainly only 3-4 nights/week b/c I am on Team Leftovers otherwise.
Thoughts?
As someone who cooks almost every night on a 30″ stove, a 36″ sounds amazing.
Honestly this is a question I’d throw to a local realtor, though – does size matter, or is it more that quality of appliances and layout is important more than size?
This – is your house so old and the neighborhood so transitional that your house would be a tear-down anyway, making any renovations just for you? Or, are you really upgrading for resale in the next 1-3 years. And of course, many other options besides those 2. Ask a realtor friend or someone in the neighborhood or a realtor of someone in the neighborhood… whichever realtor “sponsors” the local elementary school.
It’s not — we did check on that. It’s really only a bad kitchen / bad bathroom situation. Nothing that six figures can’t fix :)
I don’t live in a fancy neighborhood, so no comments on the real estate aspect. But a 36″ stove is amazing! We remodeled the kitchen in our previous house and had one, and we loved it so much. We moved several months ago and are back to a 30″ stove and really miss the old one. We plan to remodel the kitchen, and a 36″ stove (or larger) will definitely be in the plans when we do.
I think a 36″ stove is definitely nicer. If you have a huge kitchen, a 48″ sounds lovely but is probably not worth the investment if it’s not your thing. I do think a large stove with two ovens (side by side, not on top of each other) or a configuration with double wall ovens and a large range is desirable.
I would totally do a bigger stove, a second oven and an in counter wine fridge. Heavenly.
All this plus a warming drawer. DH had one put in when he remodeled his (now our) kitchen and it’s so great! And as discussed a while back, a second dishwasher if you entertain a lot.
As a 4-5 night a week cook I’d love a bigger stove AND a second wall oven if you can swing it. If we’re adding in wishlist items a dishwasher drawer would also be ah-mazing for hosting/holidays. I’d also keep the ‘triangle’ in mind during your renovation, our current kitchen has terrible flow and bothers me SO much more than my husband. For example – if the fridge door is open nobody can walk around it to access the sink/dishwasher/stove. It is also really hard to pass behind whoever is cooking at the stove or working at the island – it works sort of OK for two small women, but it turns that whole stove/island area into a 1 person only space if the person back there is much larger or in a wheelchair/walker.
Yes — this is part of the accessibility issues — people get trapped and can’t easily access the bathroom and can’t navigate even if not stuck. It is a cluster (bad prior remodel). The rest of the house and upstairs/bedrooms are great. Just the parts that are expensive to redo are bad.
36” range sounds perfect unless you have a massive kitchen.
I bought a house with a kosher kitchen and the second fridge, oven and dishwasher have been life changers.
Funny! We bought a formerly kosher house- they had the kitchen in a different room (we took down the wall) and had a rare double decker dishwasher- I made sure when we remodeled that the spaces were cut to standard sizes so things would be easy to replace. Imho everyone who moves into a house ends up remodeling (or want for remodel) the kitchen, so just do what makes you happy. Emily Henderson recently did a small basement kitchen reno on her site that might give you some good ideas as well.
Hi, are you in Nashville? If so, I say go with the fancier upgrades. It will be worth it to you and for resale.
Drooling over all the gorgeous suggestions on this thread (and p.s. thanks to everybody who gave me dishwasher brands and pointers the other day!)
Personally, having cooked on stoves with poor heat control (so there is only one, very hot, temp), uneven surfaces (so the pan tilts) and uneven heat (so even nice pans have hot-spots)–I would pay more attention to the quality of the stove than the size.
I guess if you are thinking about selling, maybe that would mean a recognizably high-end brand?
Any current Costco members? I need a laptop & people say Costco is the way to go. Im not a member but will sign up if the laptop is a fair price, but can’t see the price bc I’m not a member. I would be forever grateful if you could just check the price on item #1234959. And if you get any credit for signing me up I’m happy to do it!
$1499.99 plus 14.95 shipping and handling. Sadly no referral bonus that I know of!
$1499.99 + $14.95 S&H
It seems like more computer than most folks need, but you know your needs best.
A pox on anything called a “business laptop” that doesn’t have a 10-key keypad.
LOL. I thought I would be so annoyed not having a 10-key on my work laptop after working in an office with a full keyboard for so many years, and growing up with a mom who was an Excel nerd. Turns out I rarely miss it, and if I did I could get a small USB one for cheap to keep at my desk. On the other hand, having a 13″ Th*nkPad that fits in my purse and is still running strong three years later has been amazing! And I spent less than $1k on it. Woot!
preach
My husband had an affair with a good friend of ours. I found out about a month ago. It’s painful, but we’re working through it and so far all signs are positive that we’ll make it. He’s cut off all contact with her from the day the affair was discovered, and we’ve established full transparency.
There’s one part I just can’t figure out. My kids (early elementary school age) are best friends with the kids of his affair partner. We’re neighbors, so the kids would spend entire days together on a snow day or school holiday, and they also are on a sports team together. All of the kids would be devastated if we cut off their friendship, especially since they won’t understand why (and they’ll continue to see each other in passing on the street and at sports practice).
My boundaries are that for playdates, neither of the affair partners can be present. Which leaves me (since the other woman’s husband doesn’t know and won’t watch the kids). This means I have to maintain a text relationship with her to organize a playdate every once in a while when the kids beg. I want to be the adult and to do what’s best for the kids and my marriage, even if it hurts. And it does hurt, and drain me, to watch her kid and to be present in the same room with her at sports practice.
This morning she reached out to my husband again, violating our clear boundaries. (He immediately told me). She’s also asked me to be able to watch my kids again, and other pushing of boundaries (which will never happen). My gut says I should cut this arrangement off now, but what could I tell my kids? They will suffer, and that’s not fair. I’m very careful not to say anything negative about her to them, and will never let them get involved in adult business. Thoughts or advice? Am I nuts for even trying this?
Do not let her push your boundaries. You’re doing the right thing here. Be civil when you have to be, let your kids play with her kids on your terms, and cut them out entirely if you have to. Your kids will survive if it comes down to it. Sorry you’re going through this and I hope it gets better soon.
How soon will the kids be old enough to watch themselves? For now, if you have money to throw at this, can you hire a sitter to watch the kids?
This is a great idea.
Can’t believe you’re doing this. I’m sorry your 8 year olds will get over their “friends.” How many friends do you genuinely remember and keep in touch with because you had playdates and played 1st grade soccer together? You’re acting like you’re taking your high school senior’s best friend away who was going to eventually be best man at his wedding. They’ll have many friends – they only have 1 family and you have to do what’s best for the family. No more playdates, no matter how much kids beg – just say no, we can’t have them over; no further explanation. I suspect you’re the kind of parent who explains everything to her kids in which case you say over and over when they ask – we can’t have them over/you can’t go over because our values don’t align with theirs. They can see each other at school and sports. If sports is too much for you, switch your kids teams. Again, it’s highly unlikely that you moving 1st grade soccer teams ends the career of your future Olympian soccer player or even D1 player — this stuff is just not that important; they’ll make friends on new teams.
If just being next door is too much and running into that family in the community — AND you’re serious about saving your family/think it can be saved — I’d even consider moving; you can move to a different part of town or even one town over to be in a different school district, neighborhood. Though obviously I’d only do this if you in your heart of hearts believe that he’s not going to do this again — bc you’ll have neighbors at the new place too.
+ 1 to the first paragraph. No more play dates, let your husband make up a reason why and explain that to the kids. Your kids will get over it and meet other friends, and they can still see these friends at school, other clubs/activities, etc.
So sorry that you’re dealing with all of this.
Yep I agree with all of this.
Yes agree one thousand percent.
Thirded.
Want to know what will devastate your kids far more than losing their buddies? Their parents’ marriage failing because of an affair Dad had with their friends’ mom. (Because, newsflash, they would lose those friends anyway.)
Your marriage comes first. Put it there or lose it.
You said it sister. Are you really risking the existence of your marriage for playdates and your kids’ temporary friends? Imagine the hurt it would cause your kids if they learned when they were over that THEY were the reason their parents got divorced instead of being able to pick up the pieces. (Obviously the affair would cause the split but kids’ friendship would be the nail in the coffin)
I don’t think the rule that neither affair partner can ever be present at a playdate is practical. Wouldn’t it be enough to say she and your husband can’t be alone together with the kids and that she contacts you, instead of him, to arrange playdates? That would address any lingering trust issues, but would still allow the kids to go play at her house sometimes. If you’re suddenly telling elementary school age kids that they can’t play at their best friends’ house, you’re going to have to give some kind of explanation, I would think.
I’m really really sorry you’re going through this, it’s my worst nightmare. I could get past my husband boinking a stranger while out of town for work or something, but I don’t know that I could get through something like this (though I’m definitely not judging you for trying, I fully understand why you want to try, and I’m glad your husband appears willing to do the work to repair trust).
+1
Caveat that I don’t have kids, but it seems to me that what’s best for your kids (given that you believe your marriage can be saved and want to do that) is to do what’s necessary for your marriage. And it sounds like under the circumstances, that means no playdates, and no interaction with this family except incidental encounters that can’t be avoided. There is absolutely no reason that you need to put yourself through the pain of texting with your husband’s affair partner about social plans for your children, no matter how much the kids like each other. Taking care of your own mental well-being is vital here – both because you matter and your pain matters, and because you need that space for you and your husband to focus on your marriage. You say it’s not fair for your kids to suffer, but they will suffer a great deal more in a divorce, and they’ll suffer a great deal more from having a mom who’s in serious emotional pain over this.
I’m no expert in communicating with children, so I don’t know if they’re off an age where you can just say, “we’re taking a break from hanging out with Susan and Jason right now,” but I’d probably try to use a non-emotional excuse that doesn’t make this seem like a big deal.
This might be a good question for Captain Awkward.
All really good points. Take care of yourself, OP. I hate for you that you’re the one managing everyone’s emotions when you didn’t do anything wrong. Do what you need to do to relieve yourself of that obligation.
+1 to the first paragraph. I think you need to prioritize yourself and your marriage here.
Is it completely impractical to move to another neighborhood, away from the affair partner? That would create some physical distance and probably minimize the interactions you’d have to have with this couple.
My kids are young but this feels spot on for me. Perhaps others can weigh in with how to frame it for your kids, but I would absolutely cut off contact. You are going through a family trauma and need to batten down the hatches of your nuclear family with regard to any negative outside influences right now. This may be really extreme, but could you move houses (if you were planning to move to a bigger house in a few years, for example, could you expedite that)? You would not take a newly sober person to a bar; no matter how good your husband’s intentions, I would not be comfortable near this other family. Good luck, I admire you for working through this!
I know a couple that did actually move in a situation like this one – not just to get away from the affair partner but also as sort of a way of making a new start together – and they are still married (and seem very happy) 12 years after the affair.
Your kids aren’t of an age where they can know about or weigh on this, but I’m positive they’d rather have a happy mom in an intact marriage than have soccer with these kids, you know?
All the comments about moving make sense, but at the same time…presumably this neighbor is not Angelina Jolie (and cheating is rarely about looks anyway, imo). Even if you move somewhere else, he will come into contact with plenty of decently attractive 30- or 40-something women. Some of them will probably even try to make advances towards him, if he’s an attractive, friendly guy. You can’t keep him away from temptation forever, I guess is what I’m trying to say. I get the alcoholic in a bar thing, but is the Affair Partner really the “bar” in this scenario? Or is it all women? I tend to think it’s probably more the latter.
Honestly, the main reason I see for moving would be that the Affair Partner doesn’t seem to be committed to the boundaries that the OP and her husband have set. The OP says her husband has seen the light, and I believe her, but I also suspect that it would be good not to be living down the block from someone who is actively trying to undermine the marriage.
Honestly, if he’s not 100% committed to me and to re-building trust and our relationship, I’d rather find out as soon as possible and divorce him. If he communicates with her or starts something up again, I’m confident I’ll find out (like I did the first time). I don’t want to keep him from her. I want him to keep himself from her, and I want him to feel sick to his stomach at the thought of losing me every time he sees her.
I don’t think it’s just about her husband’s ability to control himself. It’s also the affair partner pushing the boundaries. And the pain OP has to deal with when her kids want to play with their neighbors, or ask to carpool, or any other thing that seems perfectly normal to kids when they’re unaware of a situation that’s not normal.
Mainly, OP’s post makes it seem like everybody in this scenario is in denial about how big of a deal this is, and how painful an affair is. I mean, OP’s husband did something that actively harmed the marriage, and the “solution” to the kids wanting to play together is that OP coordinates and babysits all the play dates. That’s some BS emotional labor that OP shouldn’t have to take on when she and her husband should be focusing on their nuclear family. Moving would put some distance between the two families and perhaps help everyone, including OP, move on (since she’s decided that’s best for her/her family).
“I don’t want to keep him from her. I want him to keep himself from her, and I want him to feel sick to his stomach at the thought of losing me every time he sees her.”
You’re amazing. Go you.
I couldn’t agree more with SC. It’s ridiculous to put the costs of this thing on OP.
This is a good point — maybe you can just slow walk things since the kids see each other at school and outside of school in sports. “You see Janie a lot at school and at soccer; let’s see if Pauline can come to the movies with us instead on Saturday.”
Honestly, I’d worry I’d lose it one day with the mom in front of both sets of kids ala Krystle and Alexis and then they’d all know and that would make an awful situation worse.
thanks, cbackson, I’m going to take some time and think about your advice. I’ve always admired your wisdom on this board and I also remember that we happen to share the same religion, so I appreciate your perspective. I guess I somehow feel like I can hold myself together and power through, because I always do and have done so my whole life (I guess that’s how we all ended up on a board like this). And they’re best friends and our families used to eat dinner together every week, so there’s no question that the kids would fight hard against an unexplained rupture. I do see your point about not risking my marriage, and that’s my biggest concern: that the occasional contact will encourage more attempts at frequent contact on her part, and keep the wound fresh. I’ll think this all over this weekend…
Oh, honey. As someone else said – you don’t need to try to take care of everyone else right now. You need to take care of you. It’s okay to fall apart a little bit right now. Who is supporting you? Do you have people you can talk to about this? Frankly, a marriage counselor might be very helpful on the topic of how to handle this with your kids.
I will be praying for you to get some of the peace and relief that you need, and for you and your husband to work through what you need to in order to go forward together.
UGH — that’s awful.
Does she know that you know? Even if her husband won’t watch the kids, I’d let her know that future communication re playdates needs to come to you OR through her husband. I don’t particularly care how she deals with that with him, but you don’t want her reaching out to your husband with this as a flimsy excuse.
She knows that I know everything, and she has apologized, for what it’s worth. She knows she’s only to communicate with me.
Next time they ask say “we’re going to take a break from doing playdates as much because they are difficult to co-ordinate” They don’t need to know why playdates are difficult to co-ordinate. If they were often on weekends, use that time to spend time as a family away from your house/neighborhood – visit a new sliding hill or a new exhibit at a children’s museum, go skating together. This will help your DH reorientate life towards your family.
For school holidays, you can sign them up for camps. They can tell their friends what camps they are going to and meet up there. Do not coordinate drop off or carpooling in any manner.
Sorry you are in this difficult position. Any hurt that the kids experience is 100% not your fault. You have already been more than accommodating and understanding.
Just spitballing here but…. is this something you could outsource? If it’s within your price range, can you hire a babysitter/nanny? You’d probably still have to coordinate with her via text, but it could eliminate the need to see her in person for pickup/dropoffs. And hiring some help could give you space/time to yourself which you deserve after all this! I don’t know how practical this is for your specific scenario.
Kudos to you for putting up boundaries/working through it.
Thanks for the babysitter suggestion (and to the others who have suggested it as well). I hadn’t thought of that and it’s well worth considering.
I am going to play devil’s advocate here and be the one to say NO to the sitter. Here’s why: If the Other Woman is already overstepping agreed-upon boundaries, a sitter is going to give her even more opportunity to do so. “Oh, I tried calling and OP wasn’t there, but the sitter was and I was afraid there was an issue, so I dropped by to check.” That sort of thing. This is leaving her a wide-open doorway to just pop by or call or text OP’s husband using the kids and sitter as an excuse. Not saying the sitter is a totally bad idea, but it’s just giving the Other Woman too much leeway in this situation, and that’s not good.
I absolutely agree with everyone else who has said to Cut All Ties with this family. This situation is not about your kids, OP. It’s about you and your husband and your marriage. Yes, it’s unfortunate that your kids may “suffer”, but they’d suffer a h e l l of a lot more if their parents divorced. They’ll see their friends at school and at practice and maybe in time you’ll be able to work out some kind of arrangement where they can have playdates again. Right now, though, your marriage is what comes first, for the best interests of your entire family.
I’m very sorry for what you’re going through. I don’t have children and haven’t been in your situation so take this with a grain of salt… but yes I would cut off all contact including the kids. There is no way in h*ll I would be childcare for my husband’s affair partner. Also – if you’re watching the kids does that mean both husband and woman are alone – supposedly not together? Nope no way. And now she’s already pushing boundaries AND not telling her husband about the affair? Seriously playing with fire.
The sad truth is your husband made decisions that hurt his family. Including you. Including the children. Now all of you have to deal with the consequences of his poor decisions. It’s not fair that you lost a friend. It’s not fair that your kids will lose friends. But this is what affairs do – they hurt everyone – and that is your husband’s fault, not yours. I would make him explain to the children that they don’t get to see their friends anymore.
You’ve gone far above and beyond, here. My ex had an affair, and there is no way I would have been able to communicate with his affair partner for any reason whatsoever. It still hurts me to hear about either of them. She’s already trying to push boundaries, which is just so unacceptable. Now is a time when you need to focus on your nuclear family and what will help you stay as healthy as possible.
The disappointment your kids will feel is 100% your husband’s fault. And hopefully it helps him understand that his actions can have far reaching negative effects on others.
Yes, I definitely think that your husband has messed up here in a way that now negatively affects his kids, and if the best decision for your family is to cut off contact with theirs, then husband will have to live with how he’s affected his children’s lives in this way.
I’m really sorry for everything you’re going through, OP. You sound strong as hell.
Are you in talks with a marriage counselor? This seems like an odd arrangement.
Does the affair partner know that you know?
I’ve told my kids very generally, “well, I don’t know their parents very well” or “his parents are going through a hard time right now” very general things about grown-up relationships – is there anyway you could tell your kids something like this?
Could you afford a nanny or babysitter so that you don’t have to be there or watch or even communicate with The Affair Partner? I mean, your kids are generally getting to an age where you don’t have to watch them for a few hours, just so long as you’re in the same house or general area.
This sounds really hard. I’m sorry I don’t have a clear-cut answer.
My heart goes out to you. I can’t even imagine what you must feel. To add to the chorus, there are a lot of adult reasons you might cut off visits with a family. You could discover parental alcoholism, or an unlocked gun, or any other thing that you might not want to explain to small children. Agree with the above that protecting your marriage is probably the best way to protect your children. Make up some lie (as you would in many other cases). Sending good thoughts to you.
No experience or advice but hugs, and I’m very sorry you are going through this.
Can you really handle living next to her for the months and years ahead? Seeing her pull in and out of her driveway? Looking out your dining room window and seeing her window? Seeing her out in the yard with her kids? Chatting with her husband, who knows nothing? Knowing your husband can see all of this, too? I do not think I could do that. I honestly don’t. Rebuilding trust with my husband would be difficult enough without knowing his affair partner was, constantly, right next door. I would need to move.
Her husband doesn’t know? You really have to tell him. And I’ll bet he wouldn’t be thrilled about the kids all hanging out together either. Infidelity sucks but infidelity with a close friend seems like the lowest of the low. Honestly one family should move communities.
No, no, no she should not meddle in her husband’s affair partner’s marriage. Not her circus, not her monkeys.
If he knows, it will be an additional way to help her maintain boundaries. If they lived on different continents, he wouldn’t need to know.
I actually agree with this. Or at least, I think it would be a requirement for me if the kids are going to keep hanging out. For two reasons: 1) keeping a relationship going with the other family would feel like lying to the other husband, and 2) it would remove the weird dynamic where you know and he doesn’t so the other woman hasn’t had the same wakeup call that your husband has, which seems like part of what’s enabling her to ignore this very clear boundary.
I mean, I get that the other marriage is not your business, and that you need your husband to choose to be faithful to you regardless of what the other woman does; her actions are no excuse. But right now y’all have a very strange situation where one of the four parties involved thinks that everything is normal and the other three of you know that it’s really not. Keeping up a relationship of any kind with that dynamic sounds like an invitation for all the drama.
I agree with you. If this were a work colleague or someone who didn’t flow into your life in so many areas I wouldn’t. But telling the husband is an extra protection for your family. He will likely in no way want his wife to have contact with your husband or your family. Maybe they’ll move. It would actually lift a lot of pressure from your shoulders for mutual avoidance and he won’t go ape**it in years to come when he finds out he’s been interacting friendly with the man that slept with his wife (which is deeply insulting).
I’d be moving and cutting off all contact with this family. No way could I even look at that woman’s house let alone her. I’d also probably be leaving my husband though so your mileage clearly may vary.
Does the other spouse know? Strange that the other family also have no issues for the kids to continue to play.
I don’t have any recommendations, but I just want to give you a big hug. You’re such a good mom for thinking of your kids and family at a time like this.
Thanks. I didn’t expect how touching comments like yours would be, I’m nearly crying at my desk now at the kindness.
Cut off the friendship. Cut off the husband. Move. Literally sell your house and move.
This may be a silly question, but for Ally bank users — I got an inheritance check in the mail that is over the deposit amount limit for Ally. How do I deal with this? Do I have to go to one of those check cashing places? Should I open a new bank account with a bank that has physical branches (and/or a higher deposit limit)?
Why don’t you call them and ask?
+1 Seems way easier than using this place as your personal google
You mail it to them. That’s what I did. Check the website for info.
Many banks will temporarily raise your deposit limit upon request. The result is usually a hold on some amount of the deposit for X days. Sometimes there are tiered holding amounts.
Call Ally and ask if they can raise your limits for a single deposit. They put a hold on my deposit for three business days but otherwise it was painless.
You can mail in deposits to Ally.
I got excited about this bag until I saw the price. Good gravy.
Yeah, it’s beautiful, but no. “Only” $1,750? I assume that’s somewhat tongue in cheek, but still.
Yeah…the day that I’m just casually in the market for a $2k purse will be the day pigs fly…
I have a gift card for Bloomies and can’t find anything to use it on because even on deep sale everything is like double what I’d pay at Amazon or Nordstrom Rack…
They were giving away cashmere sweaters around Christmas (cardigans for ~$50). Good selection of colors and the quality was decent. So if you still have the gift card then…
Yeah I keep peeking. And it’s definitely a first-world problem…
Biglaw associate here (2nd year). I just got a firm-wide email informing everyone of the new additions to the firm, and my ex is one of them. While he isn’t joining my group (thank god), he is joining a group that often works with mine, and will be on the same floor (sharing the same kitchen etc.). For colour, this was a serious relationship and it was NOT an amicable breakup. This individual broke up with me 3 days before the bar exam and we have not spoken since. I am totally over it – it feels like a life ago now, and I have had another serious relationships since, but that doesn’t mean that I have any desire to see him daily (which I will). I know that I am going to feel awkward at all times, even about silly things (ie. the fact that I relish not having to look amazing on days when I don’t have client meetings, events or court), and a colleague suggested that I diffuse some of that by being the one to offer an olive branch by sending him a welcome email. The thought of even doing this makes my skin crawl (if you can’t tell, I really don’t think he’s a good person), but perhaps this is indeed the best and most professional way to go? Advice and sympathy appreciated!!
Eh, if you see him say hi and be cordial but I don’t think you have to do anything special. It’ll get less weird with time. You definitely don’t have to look amazing for someone you don’t care about.
I think if this wasn’t an abusive relationship and just a bad break-up, you really don’t have much choice other than to $uck it up and be cordial and professional. You could confide in some colleagues (sounds like you already have?) but it’s likely to just backfire. Getting dumped right before the bar sucks, but it was a long time ago and really shouldn’t interfere with your ability to have a professional relationship (obviously would be a different story if he, eg., was abusive or stalked you after the break-up).
Ugh. Tight smile and nod when (you think) no one is around; cordial and professional but very dry when it’s in writing or in a group setting. So sorry.
I agree with your friend. Ex might not know you’re at this firm (even if he should know – he might’ve forgotten). If he’s a nasty person then I cannot imagine his reaction to seeing you is going to be something you want to deal with. I can just imagine it now – “omg what are YOU doing here” – like you’re the interloper. Yuck. Better for you if he has that reaction in private.
I agree, and I think you can send a “welcome” email that’s not really very welcoming but is cordial and professional. Something along the lines of, “Hi Ex, I saw from an earlier email that you’ll be joining the firm. As you probably remember, I’m also working here in XYZ role, so we’ll probably cross paths from time to time. I hope your onboarding goes smoothly and you find your new role fulfilling. Thanks, Me”
This all seemed reasonable until the closing – don’t thank him! “Thanks” is overused as a closing, and definitely not appropriate here.
My condolences, this does not sound fun. I think there are two roads you could go down. First, pretending nothing ever happened and being nice to him, not overly nice, not encouraging friendship of any kind, just surface level niceness and professionalism. This would not include sending him an email or any correspondence not related to work (maybe sending a connection request on LinkedIn with no note attached would be a middle ground). Second option- taking a more personal approach and realizing that this will potentially lead to rehashing of old issues. Emailing to welcome him might be a signal to him that you would welcome his (platonic) friendship, which it does not sound like you would. I would only take this approach if you are either open to becoming friends or unable to work with this person without bringing up your mutual past.
No don’t do that. Be civil when you see him, stop telling people you dated, and live your life. You can do it. May he fall into the sea without a life jacket.
This sounds like a fine time for being cool-polite. Not warm. Not cold. Acknowledge his presence if you’re in a room together without inviting conversation. Don’t ask questions. Don’t get closer than a few feet away. And I definitely would not send him a welcome email.
This. As Anon at 4:35 said above, a nod and barely a smile when you see him alone, speak when necessary (and only necessary) and no way would I send a welcome email, either. That could easily be misconstrued as interest. Basically, he’s somebody you vaguely remember in passing. That’s it.
And honestly, if my ex turned up to work at my company, I couldn’t imagine any greater hell, so you definitely have my sympathies here. Good luck!
+1.
A late recommendation to you all- the michael kors catia heels are affordable and STUNNING in person. They’re a little higher heels than I usually wear, but they’ll be my go to for events this spring- they look like Aquazzurra or other much more expensive shoe brands.
Wow, that’s gorgeous! I soooo don’t need anything like that right now.
Thanks to everyone who answered my thread a week or so ago about what you thought you’d be doing in college/what you wound up doing/how you got there. It was so comforting to see how much things can change, and how no one is locked into one specific track, and that there’s not a harsh age cutoff on “success” or, even better, happiness/moderate enjoyment of what you do.
Since then, I’ve decided to take some time off from school. I’ll be graduating with an associate’s at the end of this semester, take the fall off, and start on my bachelor’s in the spring. In the mean time, I’ll use this time to work on things that I haven’t had time for in the past year (dance, hobbies, art, fitness, etc.). It will also give me time to really consider what I want to study, where I want to go for my bachelors, and maybe even visit a few campuses before deciding. If all goes really well it may even open the door to turning my current internship into a full-time thing when it ends (one of my superiors quit right when I started, and his boss said he would be open to hiring an intern to fill his position if anyone stellar stood out, and I do consider myself to be at least slightly-stellar at this role to be entirely honest).
On a side note: what is with people being surprised by women who are driven, and goal-oriented having messy personal lives and imperfect mental health? I mentioned my tendency toward stagnation to a decently close friend, and the next day they (semi-seriously, half-joking) said they don’t know me at all, just because they didn’t think I was like that. Just because I work like a dog doesn’t mean I have energy for anything other than keeping up appearances. My house is a mess, my bills are all on auto-pay, I didn’t take my birth control for a month because I couldn’t gather the energy to deal with the automated call system, and there’s a reason I spend $75 a week on counseling. This stuff really shouldn’t be surprising.
Re: your last paragraph… I think a lot of people operate (consciously or unconsciously) on two incorrect assumptions:
1) that what they see about a person (whether in real life or on social media) is a fairly accurate representation of their overall life and
2) that most other people are somehow more organized/pulled together/”adulting” better than they are
The reality is, pretty much everyone’s a mess. I was in my 30s(!) before I realized that the reason everyone else’s houses always seemed neater than mine was that typically people clean up before company comes! It genuinely never occurred to me that their houses probably don’t look like that all the time. The older I get, the more I realize that we’re pretty much all in the same “barely holding it together” boat – except we insist on believing everyone is doing better. There’s nothing truer than that saying about being kind because everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
Yes! The guy who runs my workout class was like, “well, of course *you* don’t get stressed.” And I looked at him like o.o and was like, “uh, you’ve met me right? maybe i don’t understand what you mean by ‘stressed’?” And he said, “y’know, worried about things you don’t need to worry about.” And I laughed and said, “Yes, I get stressed.” … that is like 85% of the reason I workout regularly, to keep the anxiety demons at bay.