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Coffee Break – Kaida Kitten Heel

Fitzwell - Kaida (Pewter Kid Leather) - FootwearI've said it before and I'll say it again: I love a kitten heel for the office. This style from Fitzwell has numerous reviews extolling the comfort and style, and I really like the starburst pattern on the vamp. It's available in “pewter” (pictured), black patent leather, and (in calf leather) black, brown, and navy. It's $69 at Zappos.com. Fitzwell – Kaida (Pewter Kid Leather) – Footwear (L-2)

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110 Comments

  1. Hello, I’d like some advice from government attorneys/in-house litigators. I am currently interviewing for a government litigation position where I would actually be litigating the cases (not monitoring outside counsel). I currently work at a law firm, and the main draw of this new position is my perception that working for the government would be more 9-5/family friendly. However, how realistic is this? I just imagine if you have a trial/hearing/motion deadline, you’ve got to put in the hours it takes to get it done, regardless if your employer is the government. So my question is, how realistic is the expectation that a government litigation position would be less hours/stress? I’m pretty happy where I am, and I’d be taking a healthy paycut.

    Thank you so much for any input you have! Not sure where else to find this kind of information.

    1. I am sure it depends on the government and agency but I work in state government after 3 years in private practice and I love it. I have my own cases,and nothing is life or death (or perceived to be so by my clients). I do mostly administrative litigation which is a little more relaxed than state court. It is true that if there is a big hearing or argument coming up I put in a few extra hours. But for the most part I put in my 37.5 hours per week and rarely worry about cases after work. I took a 20% pay cut but the retirement benefits and work/life balance of public employment more than make up for the pay differential.

      1. Completely agree. I’ve only ever stayed at the office past 7 PM on one occasion, and that was appellate brief-related.

    2. I worked as a (partly) litigation paralegal for a federal government agency and we had a specific “litigation” team at the agency. They worked longer hours than the other lawyers as a general rule — and especially the week before something was due. I think your instinct may be right that litigation is litigation and will occasionally demand loooong hours, but it IS going to depend on the agency and the amount of litigation you’re doing.

      My general impression though is that things will have longer lag times, there are fewer “fire drills”, and you get less client-caused emergencies in the government. In addition, I think most government attorneys are there specifically because the hours aren’t as long — so you won’t get looked at funny for leaving at 5-5:30 if you don’t need to be there.

      One question — is part of your job investigatory as well as litigation specific? My experience was that the investigatory parts of our job were a LOT more laid back and were actually 9-5. It was only when things truly ramped up to trial that the hours got a lot longer, which did not happen as frequently as long hours happen at a firm.

    3. In my experience, there are very few things that actually need to get done after 6pm or on weekends. Now, they might actually get done at those hours because people are perfectionists, or people have bad time organization skills, or a person has a desire for it to get done by 9am Monday, and that person is not the one doing it, so that person doesn’t care if it gets assigned to you at 7pm Friday, because that person’s firm is not paying you $160k to relax on weekends. So things do get done at inconvenient times, but not because it actually has to happen.

      I work at a small firm and we file motions, oppose motions, go to hearings, and try cases. And everyone leaves by 7pm. So it is possible to be a hands-on litigator and still have a life. It’s just a combination of good time management, realizing that sometimes you have to let go, not flipping out over every little thing, and not working for stinkers.

    4. After the interview, ask for contact information to talk to someone at the agency who is at your level, to get details on the work environment. I’d do that if I were you, to get the inside scoop from someone who is not in the hiring chain of command. If they are serious about you, they’ll want to get you the information you need to make your decision.

      I’m a government litigator, and the hours are great except for travel and trials. My cases are big and complex, so I’ll have one (huge) trial about every 2-3 years.

      The family friendliness is true, at least at my agency. I took off 6 months for my first baby, 8 months for the second, have worked part-time, and telecommuted.

    5. I’m in-house with a city and I’d say 80% of my practice is litigation. I think the hours are definitely less and more flexible than what my friends at firms have. I am expected to put in face time during the day, but nobody works past 5 or 6 unless something is going on, and during the summer my boss is at my door at 4:30 reminding me it’s nice out and it is time to go home.

    6. I went from private practice litigation to government litigation, and I work my 37.5 hours a week and leave happy. My workload is just plain less, so when I’ve got a big deadline coming up I can blaze through or reprioritize my smaller projects and still meet the deadline with little to no additional hours at the office.

    7. In my experience, its true, but it depends on what kind of cases you have. I handle a lot of administrative hearings and usually will put in more time to prepare for those when they arise. For the most part, I have a very regular schedule.

    8. In my federal government agency, we sometimes do need to work more than 40 due to the demands of litigation, etc. However, we also receive credit hours when we do so, which means we can take the equivalent amount of time off in the future. Another thing to note is that everyone takes vacations and I have never heard of anyone canceling a vacation or being called back from one.

    9. It really depends on your agency and the specific office within the agency. I know a lot of agencies in my state require attorneys to bill time and those attorneys don’t seem to work that much less than the firm attorneys I know. Most of the attorneys in my office tend to work 40 hours a week, but our field attorneys travel a lot more and often find themselves working 60 hour weeks when they have heavy hearing schedules. The hearing officers seem to be transitioning slowly to phone hearings, but some of the attorneys are still spending a good portion of their days on the road and then have to do the actual hearing prep at some other time.

    10. I barely work 40 hours a week most of the time. However, when I have a big hearing, I may be out of town for a week or more and will be putting in 60 plus hours in the month before. As others have said, after working many weeks on a case, I can take the next Monday off with fear.

    11. Another gov lawyer here, although I don’t do I ton of litigation. I would think it depends on your agency and the type of work. But I do think for the majority, life-work balance is a lot better and you rarely see anyone working past 5 p.m. unless they’re on a weird flex schedule and don’t start until later in the morning or only work 4 days a week or something.

      I’ve had lots of times when upper management thinks something is a crisis, but I’ve rarely had to cancel a vacation, come in on my day off or the like. If I do work on the weekend, I get comp time to take off later.

    12. From a government lawyer in litigation I’ll second that it depends on your agency. In mine, when I’m in trial, I easily work 60 hour weeks and we do not receive compensation for those extra hours.

    13. Yeah, I’m a government lawyer and have the contrary experience. I do mostly litigation and 40 hour week is rare, 45 is more common and I can easily do 60 when papers are due. I think the main difference is, if my workload allows I can leave early and no one minds, and also that family obligations are sacrosanct. Everyone has unbreakable family commitments that everyone else respects. One thing I’d think about is are there budget cuts in the government entity you’re thinking of working for. My understanding is that in flush fiscal times everyone had less of a workload and shorter hours.

    14. Thank you everyone. I have a call back next week, and I’m thinking long and hard about this. I appreciate all of the input!

    1. I’ve got a pair of fitzwell kitten heels from a couple seasons ago. They are fairly comfortable and have held up well, given the price.

  3. Corporettes,

    How long should you wait to hear back from a job application before assuming the organization isn’t interested?

    I’m applying to a position at a nonprofit, applied online. There’s no closing date for applications for the position (although it’s still up, so I assume they haven’t hired someone.) I applied about 2.5 weeks ago

    1. I’ve had a call the next day (to check my qualifications and experience) and I’ve had a call three weeks later. many places are just collecting resumes, unfortunately.

      I think after a month — unless there’s an apply-by date on the posting — it’s a loss.

      1. Hey, what’s the deal with the “collecting resumes” thing? I’ve heard a few people say that a lot of places just do that (and I’ve sent a lot of resumes that appear to go into the big black hole). But, why would any organization just want to “collect resumes”? I don’t get it.

      2. I got a job once from a resume collection! It happened once, and it will never happen again, but it does happen. Granted, it took about 14 months for them to get around to it. But it happens! :-)

  4. Sigh . . . I was hoping that shoes this pointy were still out of date. Guess not. The corn I developed in 2005 won’t let me go back there.

  5. I recently bought a khaki-colored (not material) suit. It is actually my first pair of khaki-colored dress slacks, and I’m at a complete loss as to what color of shoes to wear on a day-to-day basis. Black shoes seem harsh with khaki at all unless I am wearing a black top (which I rarely do anyway, and likely wouldn’t with a khaki suit in any case). If the answer is brown shoes, would definitely appreciate pics and links, since most brown shoes I’ve browsed are a dark brown that I would think is not seasonally appropriate. Or is the answer ivory or navy?

    1. I should also mention that although I’m looking for general color advice, specific shoe recs are of course always appreciated. I prefer a heel height of around 3″ and no or moderate peep on the toe.

      1. That’s the perfect outfit for “nude for you” shoes. I wear those instead of black anytime. Also navy would work very well, but I find the “nude for you” shoes to be very versatile. Cole Haan has a pump in patent that is beautiful and very comfortable in that shade (at least for me anyway!)

        1. Interesting. Would it change your opinion if I told you that “nude for me” is, basically, pink-ivory? I had just assumed that would look bad, but now that I think about it, a pink with khaki is nice, so maybe it wouldn’t be too bad.

      1. I have the J.Crew Juliet Heels in Driftwood (which they don’t sell anymore, unfortunately), and I think something like that would be the perfect color.

    4. I wear dark brown heels with my khaki suit all the time in summer and get a lot of compliments. I can’t find a picture of the ones I usually wear online. I also have a medium brown crocodile pair I wear a lot with it but that might not be appropriate for every office.

    5. Basically anything darker. I wear my beige suit with camel-colored heels, or beige heels, or maroon. A jewel tone would work great, too (maroon, eggplant, dark green, etc.).

      Don’t wear anything lighter than the suit, i.e., if nude-for-you is pink, avoid it, and avoid white.

    6. what about a deep wine red/burgundy shoe? olive green?
      dark brown/tan should do it too. also navy.

  6. Is it just me or are kitten heals a bear to walk in? I can sprint in 4 inch heels but when I wear kitten heals, it’s like I’m learning to walk in heels for the first time.

    1. Too bored to bill – I hear you on the “bear to walk in.” Also because they are so low to the ground I tend to scuff them up pretty quickly. Thus, I typically gor for 3″ plus heels.

      That said, this pewter color is just what I need! I have on light grey wide-leg pants today with…wait for it…nude pumps. The look is all wrong but these would be much closer to the mark!

    2. I am the same way. I am very unstable in kitten heels but I can walk for blocks with all my files in 3-5 inch heels like they are tennis shoes.

    3. Not just you. And the problem is worse if the pants have cuffs. I have actually stepped a kitten heel into my cuff and gone DOWN, quickly and sprawling, onto the pavement. A number of times. Never happened with non-kitten heels.

      1. Ugh. Me too. After a face plant while running for the train, I finally had the cuffs taken out of my pants, preventing certain death.

    4. I hate kitten heels because my ankles wobble to each side when I wear them. I also don’t like stilettos for the same reason – only thicker heels for me!

      1. I hate kitten heels too! I don’t get the appeal. At 5’4 I live in heels, but for some reason kitten heels always make me feel short..

  7. Did anyone see the pictures of Kate Middleton today in the Reiss “Shola” dress? I’m so much more comfortable in dresses than pants- would something like that be appropriate in an office that is between business casual and formal (but leans toward casual)?

    1. It is beautiful, but the beige says casual to me. I would love to wear this dress, but I am not bone thin like Kate. I am afraid I would look silly as I am much more pear shaped and there is no room to hide my derriere in this dress. If you have the body for it, it is a splurge, but otherwise, forget it and get something less fitting.

    2. I hadn’t seen it before you mentioned it, but it’s gorgeous. It would certainly fly in my business casual office.

  8. I’m not in law. My boss and mentor told me about a job opportunity (equal to his position) at another company where he used to work. He is still very good friends with the team there (which is how he found out about the position). I know he thinks very highly of me and I was really flattered that he would think of my development this way. However, I went in for an interview and I just don’t see it being a good fit culture wise (a lot of what I enjoy about my current job are the opportunities for creativity and being a real problem solver–this organization was far more rigid and formal in processes with a lot of approvals. I think I would become very frustrated quickly with an inability to effect any sort of change–he had kind of warned me a bit). They called and want me to come in again. Do you think it is best to see it through and perhas see if my feelings change, or withdraw now? I am so busy and hate to waste my time or theirs. I’ve also had to have a real heart-to-hear with myself on what is important in life. I have a lot of flexibility with working at home right now and an easy drive to the office, and I dread a long train commute. Money is about 25 percent more, but I’ve always felt like enjoying what you do and the people around you is priceless. Where I am has no growth opportunity though.

    If I do withdraw now, what is the best way to do without burning any bridges? (I work in a field where everybody knows everybody as you can probably guess).

    1. why not go for the follow-up, and if you get an offer use it as a way to negotiate a higher salary where you are happy?

    2. If you know you’re not interested, I wouldn’t go in for the follow-up. (Except if you want to use it as a bargaining chip to ask for a raise, as the other poster suggests.)

      Either way, if you decide to withdraw your application, you should give your mentor a heads up. Express thanks that he thought of you, but tell him why you don’t think it would be the right fit for you right now. I’d have the conversation with him before I withdrew.

      1. Agree – I’d talk to your boss/mentor about it before you make a final decision to withdraw. He deserves the heads up, plus he might have some valuable input into your decision. (Also, it’s possible that he referred you to this opportunity b/c he knows layoffs are pending or your current job is otherwise not secure.)

        1. I agree that you should talk to your boss/mentor. He obviously knows you and the company pretty well, and it may be a good idea to express your concerns to him. Maybe the company has changed or you got the wrong impression. Either way, it would be a good idea to consult your boss/mentor in order to form a final decision. Best of luck!!

  9. Need advice for upcoming wedding…

    I am going to a wedding with my BF (in Chicago). Meeting his large family for the first time. A little background – he is the “older” bachelor uncle who doesn’t bring women to family events. We’ve been together a year and they know he is dating someone, but they haven’t met me. We are serious and this is basically his way of introducing me to the clan. They are all very curious to meet me, and to top it off, I will be cracking out my Spanish. Expecting that I will stand out, I want to dress in a way that keeps me less noticable. I am thinking conservative and simple. Wedding is at noon. Reception is at 5.

    He suggested that I wear one dress to the ceremony and then change into something more comfortable for the reception (e.g. something for dancing). This will be a serious dancing event, so I want to be able to move etc. Anyway, I think it is really strange to change dresses. He says it is totally normal to change clothes at a Mexican wedding. Is this true?

    My thinking is that changing clothes will draw more attention to me. And since I am going to be so nervous anyway (what with the Spanish, the introductions, and the dancing), that it is best to stick to what I know – one outfit. Does anyone have any insight into this question of changing clothes or not?

    1. I have never been to a Mexican wedding, but considering the wedding and the reception are 5 hrs apart I think it would actually be weirder to wear the same thing to both. Are you just supposed to sit around at home for the three hours in between, watching TV in your formal wear?

      Also, is the wedding in a church? If so, you should wear something more church-y to the wedding (I don’t know what people wear to church but it seems like it would be a covered-up event) and something fancier and more formal (and more skin-revealing) to the reception.

      Finally, have you seen the invite? Most invites have some sort of attire directive. Also maybe you could look at pictures of other family events to gauge what everyone else will be wearing.

      1. It’s a Jehovah’s Witness wedding…so I have no idea. I was raised Catholic and 95% of his family is Catholic. I don’t know what to expect for the service, but I know that Jehovah’s Witnesses dress very formal for Sunday service, I am assuming the same for wedding. And yes, what are we to do for 3 hours between services? I will be so nervous maybe I will just start drinking! haha

    2. I’d follow his lead. Especially if the wedding is in a church (Catholic? Pentecostal?) a more modest dress will be appropriate for the ceremony, but why not dress in something really fabulous for the reception?

      My only remotely-analogous experience is a community party in rural Nicaragua with a lot of dancing, but OMG, how fun – even the toddlers were amazing dancers.

      1. Sorry, missed the part about it being JW! So modest for the ceremony is probably quite important.

    3. Are you going to arrive a day or two before the wedding? If so, I’d bring two dresses (or even three so you have an extra one) and hang out with his mom or sisters and figure out what you should wear. It’ll be a good way to get to know them, and you’ll be sure to be dressed right.

      1. I wish! Unfortunately, I am being thrown in the deep end. No pre-wedding introductions. Plus, he is 11 years older than me and the youngest of 8, so his sisters are way older than me (like 20 years). I am not sure they would give me the right cues, but I also don’t want to look like the “kids”.

        I think I will wear a very modest dress to the wedding. And then post-wedding, pre-reception scope out the ladies. I will bring 2 more dresses in the car, just in case I need to pull a Clark Kent and switch ’em up.

  10. A former supervisor of mine asked me to advise their current intern on job hunting. The intern graduated a great law school and summered at a big firm, but couldn’t find post-grad employment and ended up enrolling in an LLM program. The first thing I did was google the intern’s name and what I saw shocked me — this person has a public twitter feed using their full name and photo. Among the tweets I read were proclaiming being drunk, using terms like “sh*t” and “WTF” and tweeting about being over an hour late to their first day of externing (presumably the same place where they intern for my former supervisor).

    This intern and the supervisor were genuinely wondering why the intern couldn’t find employment despite an impressive resume. I immediately called her to tell her this, but perhaps I should’ve either kept my mouth shut or contacted the intern (whom I do not know and never met) directly so as not to inform their boss. I guess it’s too late and the supervisor (who is not tech savvy at all and would not have thought to google the student) told me I did the intern a favor and that the supervisor will talk to them.

    I’ve been reeling in shock over this all day. I can’t believe how little common sense a student with such great credentials can have, and I wonder how they got such great internships and a biglaw summer associateship in the past to begin with (perhaps it’s why they didn’t get an offer?). I almost wish I kept my mouth shut because people like this don’t deserve professional jobs! Maybe I’m overreacting?

    1. I never tweet because I don’t see the value. Once the boss said only twits tweet, that is why I never tweet. Don’t worry about it. You found it on google, so anyone could find it.

    2. Smart people can be really dumb. Don’t worry, he’ll be doing dumb things somewhere else shortly.

      Also, I see this as someone asked you to do a favor and you did it. You owe the intern nothing, your relationship is with this supervisor. Reporting your findings to anyone but this supervisor would be almost a betrayal.

      Favor asked, favor done. Next challenge.

      1. She said there was a picture, so I assume that it was clearly the intern (although I guess she said that she hadn’t met the intern, too, so maybe not).

        But, even if the name is not common, the internet is a big place. I have two very unusual last names (as in, my maiden and married), but, if you google me, I apparently run a sort of creepy looking spa in California under my maiden name, and was flashed by a customer at Target under my married name (I don’t know why, but that story from 2007 comes up EVERY time I look!- it wasn’t me) I worry about how many people might miss opportunities due to having a name in common with someone unsavory.

    4. You did do him a favor. If it’s really his Twitter feed, maybe he’ll wise up now. If it’s someone else with the same name, then he should change the way he uses his name on the resume (use his middle initial, his nickname, something like that) so he can avoid getting blacklisted due to poor Google search results. Either way, you helped him out.

    5. “people like this don’t deserve professional jobs!”? I think that is overreacting and kinda mean. This person is new to the professional world. Yes, it is a foolish mistake, but to say it should prevent someone with great credentials and great experience to get an entry-level attorney position? That seems unfair to me.

      1. I say that because we are the same age and this seems like common sense 101 to me. We are not talking about naive college kids, but someone who completed 7 years of higher education and has to undertake a character and fitness assessment — what if the Committee had conducted a search and saw these proud tweets about being drunk one time and coming an hour and a half late to the first day of an internship on another? Would it be “mean” if this person was not admitted to the bar on this count? It’s not only my opinion and overreaction that carries weight here…

        In response to the commenters, it was definitely the same intern. It had a photo that the supervisor confirmed was the same person and full name with middle initial on it (and not a common surname at all).

      2. I disagree. Great credentials and great experience do not make up for poor judgment.

  11. My boyfriend and I are both looking for new jobs and have narrowed locations to where I went to law school (a major city / far from current location) and his hometown (a comparable sized large metro city a few hours from where we currently work — and by all counts the better city in our state).

    I have landed an interview in his hometown and am sure I’ll get the “why here?” question. I can point out great things about the city but don’t have personal ties without saying “my boyfriend is from here.” We have been dating nearly 3 years and are serious but given that most people have been married for years by our age (and likely have kids) in our region, I feel a little childish referencing “my boyfriend” in a professional setting. (I’m late 20s / he’s early 30s.) “Significant other” seems too formal to me but perhaps would be appropriate. Any advice?

    1. I’d say “partner” instead. Yes you might get the “does she mean a woman?” question but (if it matters) you can mention “he” or his name.

      1. Agreed. Normally I dislike the term “partner,” but I do think it is better for this situation than “boyfriend.” “Significant other” would work fine too, I think. When asked why you want to be in the hometown, I would say “My partner/s.o. is from here.” followed by something that refers uses “he” or “him”–e.g., “His whole family still lives here.” or “He has a job offer at ____”

    2. It’s OK to go with boyfriend. My uncle is in his late 70’s and he has a “girlfriend” with false teeth who hasn’t been a “girl” for well over 50 years. If she can be a girlfriend, your guy can be a boyfriend. No big deal.

    4. Why not just say you have personal ties (which you do) and are familiar with the city and have always wanted to live there, without mentioning the boyfriend? If pressed, you could always say you have friends from the area. I would feel uneasy talking about personal relationships during an interview. If interviewers are not allowed to ask whether you are married and have/want children (they aren’t, right?), why do you need to volunteer details about your relationship? Also, I would be concerned that an interviewer would think, She’s moving here for a boyfriend? What if they break up? I’d emphasize your own reasons for wanting to move to the city and take the job, independent of any relationship.

      1. The issue of “what if they break up” is also a concern for me. Vague “personal ties” v. “the girl who moved here for boyfriend” — which isn’t the case: it’s a more vibrant city (less crime, higher tax base, better education system, more green space, walkable, less conservative, younger demographics, etc..) with more professional opportunties and social opportunities for young professionals, slightly more sophisticated legal market.

        1. There you go. I’d focus on all those things. I moved from the Midwest to DC for my postdoc (perhaps it’s not so unusual to move so far for postdocs) for personal reasons, but never brought them up in the interview and instead stressed how I’d visited DC and would love to live there. I think focusing on what you love about the city also gives the interviewer a chance to play “tour guide” in way – everyone likes to extoll the virtues of their city.

          Good luck with the interview!

  12. I own these heels in two colors and love them–built in A/C for summer. I have gotten tons of compliments on them. I also ordered the navy and found it to be a bit off (too “blue” and not “navy” enough)…but the brown and black are amazing. They are VERY pointy, but easy to walk in. They run a little bit small due to the extreme pointyness–I sized up 1/2 a size. Enjoy!

    1. I saw a fabulous older lady in Target today in these heels! The shoes in tan, a cream sheath dress, and pink belt – great outfit.

  13. Today I was told by the managing partner of my big law office that based on recent events (ie-I pissed off a big shot partner when I didn’t take a hit for his mistake) I’m being asked to “make a move.” I’m upset but I understand that there is no going back, so I’m going to get paid for the next six weeks or quicker if I find a new job before then. This absolutely sucks and I have no one to talk to about it. I feel like I got run-over by a very large truck.

    First, what on earth am I supposed to do during this time? And what do I tell people? Coworkers? I assume I no longer have to bill, so job search on the firm’s dime? Second, what do I tell future employers? Third, i’m in the DC market and would love to go in-house. Is it realistic to find an in-house position in 6 weeks with only 2 yrs of experience? Where does one find these mythical in-house jobs? TIA!

    1. Sorry this happened to you. I’m not sure what you are to do at work the next 6 weeks, but this will all pass very quickly. Look at this as a great opportunity to change up your life a bit. You will be fine. Good luck and hugs.

    2. If you have people that you’re friends with at work and feel comfortable telling them what happened, ask if they have recommendations for headhunters/legal recruiters/etc in your area. Or just ask other legal friends in D.C. for recommendations and tell them to let you know if they hear of any openings.

      I don’t know if in-house is an extremely likely option with only 2 years of experience, but if you have a great working relationship with a client it might be more doable.

      Good luck! This happens more often than people realize, and has happened to a few friends of mine (and many had “stealth layoffs”). Everyone that was asked to make a move is now *much* happier, and hopefully in time will turn out to be an opportunity for you, as well.

    3. 6W, I’m very sorry to hear about your situation and am responding a little hastily, i.e., I may not have thought thought through all the issues, b/c it sounds like time is of the essence . If you didn’t do anything wrong and you are being let go simply b/c the bigshot partner is angry with you, then I think you should negotiate for more than 6 weeks’ salary (and benefits, presumably). 6 weeks is not much time at all to secure a new job and you easily could find yourself unemployed with no salary or health insurance. And (other Corporettes, please correct me if I am wrong) if the official story is that you “resigned on your own” (which is what “making a move” reads to me) then you cannot file for unemployment once your severance ends if you have not yet found a new job.

      I would recommend that you immediately talk to an employment attorney, who can help you understand your rights and advise you in negotiating a better severance. I would think 3 months’ salary + benefits would be more appropriate, even for a second-year associate. An involuntary “move/resignation” can be very disruptive to your career and if they are essentially firing you for not taking the fall for a partner, then they should cushion your departure appropriately. Also, you should ascertain before leaving what the firm will say about your departure when asked for future background checks, etc.

      I also was let go due to downsizing when I was a 2nd-year biglaw associate. This was back in the early 90s and the firm did not want to call it downsizing b/c they didn’t want their clients to think they were under financial stress. They gave me (and the handful of other associates who were terminated) 3 months’ salary + benefits and allowed us to use the office to search for another job. Everyone pretended that the move was voluntary on the associates’ part (the idea being that a candidate is more attractive to potential employers/recruiters if still employed) and we all landed more or less well. Still, b/c it was involuntary, it was a huge shock (I had just had a great review 2 months prior) and it took me a while to bounce back from the psychological blow.

      One final piece of advice: whatever severance period you end up negotiating, do NOT START your next job early and let your current firm off the hook for paying severance. Treat your job search like it’s a full-time job and then if you end up having a month or two before your new start date, consider it a well-deserved vacation.

      Sorry for the long post — I truly sympathize with you and want to help. Good luck and as others have said, consider this an opportunity for a positive change.

    4. You need to find a job… quickly. I was in a similar situation and had 6 weeks also and I managed to land 3 interviews. The third one was during the week right after the 6 week period and was the only one that led to an offer. I hate to tell you that people are more willing to talk to you if you are currently employed. So, start networking like crazy (in-house, at another law firm, whatever you can get) and focus on articulating your interest in the new job (because of your interest in a particular practice area or wanting to take more responsibility or doing more trial work – whatever). You don’t need to tell them that you’re being asked to leave unless they ask you that question. Going in-house after 2 years is going to be hard in this economy, but not impossible. Best route is through networking so reach out to everyone you know now and meet them for coffee/lunch since no one’s going to miss you at the office. Sorry to sound blunt – I’m trying to be helpful.

      1. Thank you for the kind words. I definitely had a great review a month ago so this came as a shock. I went back today, regrouped, and got them to extend the 6W to 10W’s + benefits. I’m working until next Friday, then I’m transitioning my (23) matters over to the other 3 associates. My firm profile will stay up too which will be helpful. I’ve already contacted two headhunters and sent them my resume. I’m not sure who to network with right now, but I’m definitely going to start looking at the job postings. Is there anything other than Indeed.com and lawjobs.com?

        Honestly, I never imagined myself in this position. I keep telling myself that this is not my fault and that I did nothing wrong, but I can’t shake the idea that if only I was a “better” associate this would not have happened. Ugh.

  14. Summer in DC is steamy and my agency has casual summer but the office is an igloo. So, I keep a collection of cardigans and blazers at work.

    I have a pair of navy chinos but I can’t figure out what kind of blazer or sweater to wear to look professional and keep warm. I can’t seem to find a solid color navy one that doesn’t clash with the pants. Blue Striped? Any ideas?

    2. Cream would look great (I’m thinking of that sweater-blazer thing that Kat featured a few days ago, with the bows on the pockets- something like that would look really good with Navy, IMO)

    3. Gray and navy can look awesome together, and gray can also work with black and some shades of brown. I think gray would be very versatile.

      I hear you on the hot outside/frigid inside situation in DC (I live here, too). Sometimes I think I’m colder in the summers in DC than in the winters, because you try to dress so you don’t get heatstroke outside, only to freeze inside. I do a lot of schlepping of cardigans and pashminas (or fake-minas, as most of mine are) in the summer.

  15. Corporettes, I am so IRRITATED (no Ellen, just emphasis!)

    My state, Indiana, has defunded Planned Parenthood in terms of Medicaid funding because Planned Parenthood uses non-federal funds to provide abortions. This apparently equates to “indirect” funding of abortion (presumably because PP receives funding, it can use more of its “unrestricted” funds for abortions). This logic is really grating to me–it’s kind of like saying that providing student loans to 19 year olds “indirectly” funds underage drinking (if the recipient drinks), or that foodstamps “indirectly” fund cigarettes (if the recipient smokes), because these funds lets them allocate more of “their” funds to their recreational pursuits. It’s a slippery slope, regardless of your views on abortion.

    I just think of my post college and law school years when I was poor and had TERRIBLE insurance and the services that I received from PP–birth control, PAPS, etc., at such a reduced rate (even though I was not a Medicaid recipient). When I purchase the same pills at CVS they’re about double the cost–and it STILL pisses me off/strikes me as expensive as an attorney. I know that the legislation says that it will “redirect” medicaid users to other facilities, but I’m not sure how many facilities are clamoring for new medicaid patients, and “new patient” appointments are notoriously difficult to come by here.

    I just donated, out of frustration.

    Please don’t jump down my throat or engage in a terrible political debate. just ranting.

    1. It sucks when the govt does dumb things and it is SO frustrating.

      Deep breaths. With a clear head you can help fight.

    2. Money is fungible. If we give tax dollars to Planned Parenthood, then they can use their non-tax money to pay for abortions. Not to mention that many of us find it absolutely abhorrent to give any tax money to an organization with a pro-abortion agenda, regardless of what they’re using the specific tax dollars for.

      Just another perspective.

        1. This. So much of this. I don’t like abortion, but that doesn’t mean I want people deciding what a woman can and cannot do with her own body.

      2. You don’t want to pay for an abortion, but there’s a good chance you would be paying for welfare in some form otherwise. Either way, it is coming out of your/our pocket. I think it is better to have an abortion and still have opportunities in the future.

      3. While I respect people’s opinions about abortion, I find it interesting that the argument “I don’t want my tax money to go to abortions” is considered legitimate, but if I said I don’t want my tax money to go to oil company subsidies, unjustified wars, and abstinence-only education I’d probably be told that that’s just crazy talk.

    3. You can rant all you want, this is a good place to blow off steam, but (and I’m saying this just in the interest of people who disagree but are afraid to say anything not thinking that they’re alone, not to start a debate, because this isn’t the place for that sort of thing), I completely disagree. There are other sources for the sorts of things you’re discussing, (I’ve used them myself, although I really shouldn’t have been allowed to at the time, I could easily have managed them on my own, and I wish I hadn’t) and women (well, people) should not expect others to fund their healthcare and lifestyle choices. Plus, I really, really do not like the idea of my money going towards abortion, even indirectly (or smoking, or teen drinking for that matter- there’s nothing wrong with the logic there.)

    4. When I was a not-even-particularly poor paralegal, I used PP for birth control because it was the only place that could see me in less than, like, six months! And when you’ve decided you want to have sex for the first time, waiting for six months is not exactly “feasible.”

      Pro-choice or anti-choice (or whatever) — being against PP is being against women pure and simple. (I know, I know…not everyone agrees…)

      1. An article in the NYT yesterday said that Medicaid was going to be looking at this very carefully because it appears to violate their rules -“Federal law prohibits federal Medicaid dollars from being spent on abortion services. Medicaid does not allow states to stop beneficiaries from getting care they need — like cancer screenings and preventive care — because their provider offers certain other services. We are reviewing this particular situation and situations in other states.”

        I was relieved to see this because IN is one of 16 states (including my own) considering this or similar actions.

    5. For the ladies that *do* support Planned Parenthood (and I know we don’t all agree on this):

      One major way to support PP is to go there for your own care. Especially if you have insurance or can pay full price. Then your money helps subsidize the care they give to others on a sliding-fee basis.

      I’ve been going there for my annuals for a few years now, and I love the staff and the care I’ve gotten. (They’re also completely judgment-free. You’re 29, single, come here for birth control, and want to be tested for every STD every year? No judgment!)

  16. I don’t live anywhere near Indiana, but also made a donation to PP for all the reasons you stated.

  17. Hey Corporettes,

    Please help me! I think my legal life may be over and I don’t know what to do! My internship for the summer has just called and said due to their funding being cut, they are folding. I now have no summer job. I’m in the North East/New England area. I am calling around looking for an internship.

    Can anyone think of where best to call might be? Anywhere still available? Should I try to find somewhere in a less popular area? I’m freaking out here!

    1. Oh my god…first off, your legal LIFE is definitely not over!!! I know that this may seem like it right now, but seriously, what you do for one summer internship is NOT the end of the line/world. Really. The chance that anyone ends up doing exactly what they did in their summer internship is relatively slim anyway, so it’ll be okay (first off).

      Second…here are the steps I would take.
      (1) Call your career services department — I know, I know, you probably think they’re useless…but they may at least have some suggestions. If you’re from an out-of-state law school, they should be able to connect you with a local law school’s office for some help.

      (2) How are you going to pay rent and feed yourself this summer? Is it through a loan? Were you getting paid? If you need to, you may need to take out more loans to at least pay the necessaries for the summer.

      (3) Think of any connections you have — now may be the time to use them.

      (4) Are you willing to work for free? Perhaps call some legal non-profits you like and volunteer for the summer (maybe part time and try to get a part-time job otherwise to help defray costs?)

      (5) If you don’t find ANYTHING, connect with a professor at your law school and ask if they’ll help you work on an independent research project for the summer with an eye towards getting published. Then you’ll (a) have an entry on your resume and (b) be published — both of which are very good.

      Remember — deep breath — your life is NOT over.

    2. Your legal career is not over! It sucks, but it happens. I am in the NE also and got my internship maybe 2 weeks ago off of craigslist. Can you still work at your internship for no pay? Just (try to) relax and think about what you can still do. I know a lot of people just taking classes because of the job market this summer. It is understandable and will not have such a huge impact on your career! You CAN still find something. Reach out to other students, professors, career services, etc. Not sure if it is feasible, but maybe you can get a recommendation from the previous internships basically saying the termination had absolutely nothing to do with you. I was laid off a few years ago and they gave me a recommendation letter. Best of Luck!

  18. Hi Corporettes,

    I’m starting my summer associate position next week and I’ve been searching EVERYWHERE for gray pumps without any luck. Unfortunately, all of my pants have been hemmed for 2 1/2 – 3 inch heels, so kitten heels would not work for me. What color pumps do you typically wear with a light or medium gray suit? I think my black pumps look a bit harsh and navy only works if I’m wearing navy on top. Any other suggestions?

    1. I have a bronze-y gold pair that I love to wear with gray- but I would imagine any of the jewel tones would look fabulous with them

    2. Kate,

      I usually wear brown shoes with my medium gray suit, but if I owned any navy pumps, I would wear those, too. I don’t think you are limited to navy pumps only when you wear a navy top. In fact, I think they would work beautifully with white, black, soft pink, etc.

    3. I think someone above mentioned cognac brown, olive, and burgundy/maroon. I think some shades of dark yellow also look really nice with gray. Or how about a very dark purple – less harsh than black, but basically works as a neutral. For fun, I’d do orange shoes with gray pants, but as I’ve said before, I don’t work someplace with a strict dress code.

  19. Thank you for the kind words. I definitely had a great review a month ago so this came as a shock. I went back today, regrouped, and got them to extend the 6W to 10W’s + benefits. I’m working until next Friday, then I’m transitioning my (23) matters over to the other 3 associates. My firm profile will stay up too which will be helpful. I’ve already contacted two headhunters and sent them my resume. I’m not sure who to network with right now, but I’m definitely going to start looking at the job postings. Is there anything other than Indeed.com and lawjobs.com?

    Honestly, I never imagined myself in this position. I keep telling myself that this is not my fault and that I did nothing wrong, but I can’t shake the idea that if only I was a “better” associate this would not have happened. Ugh.

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