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Can we all just agree that we’re only wearing big sweaters and leggings for the rest of 2020? Yes? Great, thanks.
This tunic sweater would be a great addition to a work-from-home or casual office wardrobe. I like the mock turtleneck and V-hem to add a little something different, and the chartreuse color will add some joy when the weather gets a little colder and grayer. If yellow isn’t your thing, it also comes in pink, ivory, camel, black, and lilac.
The sweater is $118 and comes in sizes 1X–3X. It also comes in straight sizes XXS–XL and petite sizes XXS–XL. Crystal Tunic Sweater
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – 11/5 only – 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Up to 30% off on new arrivals
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – 11/5 only – 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Up to 30% off on new arrivals
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anon
I woke up this morning with that feeling like…what happened last night? Did I get drunk? Thinks for a minute…OHHH, no, I just watched the most horrific presidential debate in my living memory. *Rolls over and pulls the covers up*
Anonymous
I cannot imagine what the rationale is now for not letting in the Libertarian candidate (on the ballot in all 50 states) or even Kanye West. Would not have made it any worse.
Anon
Did you see the Kanye meme someone made? It was taken from his antics at the Grammy awards that weird year. Very funny!
Cb
Ugh, I couldn’t face it, so just listened to the “highlight”. What a mess!
AnonATL
Same. Didn’t want to waste my time watching the train wreck. Turns out I was right to choose sleep over that nonsense.
Anon+Probate+Atty
Same!
Anne
Ugh same. I can’t believe it was real. Like this is all actually happening.
Anonymous
I’m super disturbed that he didn’t just tell the Proud Boys to ‘stand down’, he told them to ‘stand by’! Like WTF is that about?
ANON
This is an unpopular opinion, but I heard something totally different in his answer. There was a long, compound question, including are you willing to condemn, and he said I am willing to do that. He then said stand by and stand down, which wasn’t the best answer, but everyone is skipping the I am willing to do that part.
Anon
If we are parsing words, I don’t think it was stand by and stand down. It was stand back and stand by, at least according to what the proud boys are saying on social media.
anon
His exact words were “stand back and stand by.” That’s an order to await instructions, not a condemnation — and the Proud Boys have interpreted it as such.
Anon
There is such a big difference between “I am willing to condemn” and “I condemn.” I am not sure why the question was phrased this way in the first place.
anon
He said he was willing to do it but then he didn’t. Not only did he fail to contemn, “stand by” followed by someone needs to do something about antifa sounds like a directive.
To use an analogy that seems relevant to our interests: if someone’s husband said they were willing to do the dishes but never did it, would we pat him on the back?
It’s not like it’s a difficult concept. We’re not talking about complex economic policy here or scientific, technical issues. It’s simple. A child can be expected to articulate that white supremacy is not acceptable.
Anon
He said “I would be willing to do that, BUT….” If the first clause of a sentence is followed by a “but” you can’t take it as a statement of the persons’ intent. “I would vote for Trump but he’s deranged” does not imply the speaker is going to vote for Trump.
He definitely didn’t say “stand down.” He said “stand back and stand by.”
Anon
Every time I have experienced racism, a white person has told me that it wasn’t true and offered one type of excuse or another. Please, please, please stop doing that.
Anon
Please listen to Anon at 12:01. This is sadly too true, and you are doing it.
LaurenB
I deliberately didn’t watch. I voted already anyway. I’ve historically been independent and have voted for both R and D in national elections over the years (though have voted D in the last 20 years). I went D all the way down the line. I want my dogcatcher to be D!
I’m sick to my stomach, and I have a feeling my dad is voting for Trump (though he would never bring it up) because he’s fallen in line with his new girlfriend’s Palm Beach Republican crowd who cares for nothing other than their own wallets. It’s so disheartening.
No Face
You and I are very similar. This is my first one-party ticket. My ballot is complete; I did not need to see Trump pull his nonsense.
Anonymous
Oh, they care about their own wallets?
So they do care about losing preexisting condition protections? So they are concerned about losing their Social Security payments?
Do they care about falling victim to a con artist? If no, I have a Nigerian prince I’d like them to meet.
Anon
Yeah, I don’t get the “I’m voting for Trump because of fiscal concerns.” Biden is already basically a centrist politician who will bring much more stability to the markets. How on earth does voting for a failed con man who is probably owned by Putin do anything to help the wallet?
Anonymous
I can’t really tell if you are serious. If you are, here is the answer. Palm Beach Republicans (and my in laws, who are Texas Oil Republicans) are retired and wealthy. They do not care about pre-existing condition coverage because they are covered by Medicare (and MedAdv) and/or they pay out of pocket to a concierge physician (all cash). They are mildly concerned about losing Social Security payments, not because they need a $2k check each month to survive, but because they paid into it all these years. Mostly, they think nothing will change until they are dead anyway since they are 75. They are far more concerned that their taxes will go up under a Democrat. They care about capital gains taxes, property taxes, and in some cases inheritance taxes. They most certainly do not want to see “hand outs” going to people that “made irresponsible choices.” For example, all those people that took on crazy amounts of student loan debt do not deserve tax breaks or loan forgiveness. They should have paid more attention.
I am in no way trying to bait you or start a debate. I don’t support Trump and I live in Cambridge, MA where we bleed blue. I am simply trying to share what this particular group of Republican Trump voters means when they say they “care about their wallet.” Oh, and one more thing– you’ll never convince them otherwise. They are extremely set in their ways, rightly or wrongly.
My inlaws do not like Trump as a person, but they both voted for him the first time and will vote for him again.
anon
Everything 11:02 said. My FIL will vote Trump. It makes me sick to my stomach, but these are exactly the reasons why. But yeah, bottom line is that they care only about themselves, not the rest of society.
LaurenB
“Oh, they care about their own wallets?
So they do care about losing preexisting condition protections? So they are concerned about losing their Social Security payments?”
Honestly, when I said Palm Beach Republicans, that was sort of the clue that I was talking about people who don’t care about losing preexisting conditions (because they can afford to pay the full nut for any health issue) and who aren’t going to have any difference in their lives if they do or don’t receive SS payments. Did Palm Beach not signal that to anyone else?
LaurenB
I’m totally serious. We are describing the same set of wealthy retired people who care about nothing other than their own wallets, full stop. They have the money to weather any healthcare issues even if Medicare were to go away. I’m disgusted by it all.
Seventh+Sister
My parents are in this bucket, and it’s so disheartening.
LaurenB
What is particularly galling is that these are people who are just one or two generations away from Ellis Island. They came from modest, blue-collar backgrounds and worked their way up to being wealthy – often without the benefit of a fancy-schmancy education (things like manufacturing and retail) – which hey, more power to them in that regard – but they’ve forgotten where they came from, and now it’s all about fear of raised taxes as stated above. Ironically many are reasonably socially liberal and don’t object to abortion, gay marriage, etc. Many even give to Planned Parenthood and were sad to hear of RBG’s demise. But as my husband says – in this election, if you’re wealthy, you can vote your pocketbook or your soul, and we choose soul.
Seventh Sister
My family are a bunch of WASPs (Mayflower on one side, even!) that have benefited from the government’s policies in every possible way. My great-grandmother and her sister participated in the OK land rush, my grandmother and her sisters didn’t starve to death in the 1930s thanks to the New Deal, my parents grew up in homes financed through VA loans and got advanced degrees from land grant universities, it goes on and on. And when I pointed out to my mom that my taxes went up significantly in the past four years, she just told me my state should have been “nicer” to the President.
Anon for this
Yes, this is my parents. It is so disheartening that they will literally vote for an insane criminal rather than risk the tasks on their very comfortable retirement savings go up. I am so disappointed in everyone right now.
Marise
Yes, but do these folks care about dying? Cause Covid isn’t going away anytime soon under the DeSantis/Trump plan.
Anonymous
@Marise: no, they do not.
My ILs are in their late 70s and are in full favor of total reopening.
NY CPA
At the next one, they need to only turn the microphones on during the candidate’s speaking time…
I didn’t think Biden spoke well, but Trump just did his usual one word interrupting grunts (“WRONG” “CHINA” “SOCIALISM”) plus the winner of the evening “I brought back football”. *face palm*
NY CPA
Oh yeah and of course Trump telling white supremacist militias to “standby” rather than “stand down” as asked by the moderator. I don’t know if others caught that, but it was fairly terrifying to think about.
Sloan Sabbith
I think anyone would have a hard time speaking well when you have a literal f-ing toddler having a tantrum every time you speak and not letting you get a single word in edgewise. I also don’t think Biden did well but I don’t think it’s necessarily an indication of his inability to do well in more normal circumstances, although he probably won’t ever be an incredible public speaker.
Anon
Can we please stop calling Trump a toddler? It’s so insulting to actual toddlers. My 2 year is more rational, more thoughtful and way more empathetic than Trump. And honestly she can put together a more coherent sentence.
Anonymous
This. My toddler understands the concept of taking turns.
Sloan Sabbith
Even the most thoughtful toddlers aren’t generally particularly empathetic or coherent in the midst of a tantrum, but point taken. No offense intended. Good job on raising a great little kid. :)
Cb
Yeah, agreed. My 3 year old expresses empathy when people are sad or hurt, largely respects people’s physical boundaries, and can express himself in clear and coherent ways. He also shows remorse if he’s done something naughty.
Anon
I know many people make the comparison so it wasn’t directed at you :) Toddlers aren’t rational mid-tantrum, but they also don’t tantrum non-stop the way Trump does. Spending an hour and a half with a toddler, even with a meltdown or two in there, would be way more pleasant than watching that debate because when they aren’t tantruming they’re happy and fun which Trump is very much not.
Anon
I’ve heard that the Commission of Presidential Debates will never be able to allow mics to be turned off, because both campaigns have to agree to it, and Trump never would.
Anonymous
I saw someone’s tweet that was “It’s like family Thanksgiving two months early.” Yep, old uncles screaming at each other about politics. Pretty much sums it up.
Anon
Honestly, I hate this line of thinking. There was only one deranged fool on stage. Biden knows how to play by the rules. These two men are not equivalent.
S-non
Exactly. One person ruined the debate last night. I thought Biden stumbled a bit over his words early on but gained steam and finished very strong in the second half, with great points made.
Anon
+1 million. Biden did not ruin the debate. Chris Wallace did not ruin the debate. Trump ruined the debate.
Anon
I feel like “playing by the rules” isn’t a great way to win a popularity contest though.
Lily
I’m kind of tired of this “both sides” thing. Biden did not “scream” at Trump. Trump spoke over Biden constantly, literally drowning out what Biden was trying to say. Let’s call a spade a spade. This was not a one-sided disgrace. Trump is the one who dragged Hunter Biden’s drug problem into the debate when Biden was talking about his war hero son who died in service to our country. Trump is a disgrace.
anon
+1
Anonymous
Ugh. Can I rant?
I’m done with Republican relatives. Done. To be fair my most outspoken uncle spouts racist garbage (not dog whistle stuff- slavery was good, use of the n word) and once let my cousin’s toddler hold a gun. Are they all like that? No, but when their ballots look the same, so what’s the real difference? Does it matter if youre an outspoken bigot or just vote like one?
Also kind of done with my mom who is crying about RBGs death and the end of roe. Mom, what were you thinking when you voted for George w. Bush? Twice? You thought our rights were fungible then. You were worried about taxes. You don’t get to pretend you didn’t do this to us.
Anon
We have known what the Republic party represents for a while. The most painful part of this is election is what it has revealed about our family and friends.
anon
This broke wide open in 2016 and the divide has only continued. I also do not wish to associate with Repellicans these days. I used to be a registered Independent and voted Republican in the early aughts. But no more, not unless something in that party changes significantly. I just cannot. If you’re a Republican, I’m gonna go ahead and assume you’re a racist, sexist, bigoted a-hole because you certainly vote like one even if you claim you’re not. Don’t EVEN tell me it’s about the economy. That’s BS and you know it.
Anon
This line is so key: “Does it matter if youre an outspoken bigot or just vote like one?” Thank you.
Ellen
Elizabeth, this is such a cute sweater! I am already back at work wearing all of my summer stuff I bought b/f the pandemic, and will continue to wear until it gets cold. Dad delayed our road trip b/c of the cloudy/rainey weather so we have rescheduled. It is so cool with just Dad and me going on a ride upstate to see the Aorara Borealis; b/c we need clear weather, we will go Friday nite! He also said that we will pass through a place upstate named Swastika, New York! Can you imagine? I can’t. I looked it up and here’s what they say:
https://www.newyorkupstate.com/adirondacks/2020/09/small-ny-hamlet-named-swastika-keeps-name-despite-complaint.html
Anyone near Phoenix?
Anyone know a good florist near Phoenix? I’d like to send a nice arrangement for a memorial service in Sun City, which I understand is just outside of Phoenix, near Surprise. Would prefer to do something a bit more reliable than 1800Flowers.
No Face
Oh the Proud Boys caught it and they are thrilled on social media.
Anonymous
Who follows proud boys on social media?!
Anon
I know this is a nesting fail but this is kind of making me laugh
Anon
Me too! The Proud Boys have got your Phoenix flower delivery, don’t worry.
Anon
Lol I needed the chortle today too.
Anyone near Phoenix?
Me too! And we need a little humor these days!!
Anonymous
I’m envisioning a wedding bouquet, for some reason!
No+Face
Ha! This is why I should never post from my phone.
Anonymous
I’m … picturing them catching a nice bouquet.
Ribena
Springtime for Proud Boys? (I’m going to have songs from The Producers stuck in my head all day)
Anonymous
Pam’s Floral. (602) 942-2892
Anyone near Phoenix?
Thank you
Anonymous
Hope they help. This may sound odd but my get sent me flowers from there after my dog died and they were so amazing. They really didn’t brighten my day a bit.
Anon
Recommendations for a wash and wear above the shoulder haircut? Hair is fine but there’s a lot of it, so it ends up being pretty thick. Hair is wavy with a random wave pattern. I shower at night and refuse to heat style every day (though would like the option on occasion). I’m in my 20s and definitely want a young, modern cut
anne-on
I think a ‘lob’ – relatively straight bob but in between your ears and shoulders? Fair warning – I did this for a lot of my 20’s and it was kind of a pain with maintenance as if it went below my shoulders it started doing a weird flippy thing so I had to be really on top of my trims.
For waves/curls I really like the Oribe curl control silkening creme to give some definition/hold. It is pricey but you don’t have to use very much and I try to make sure I get it on sale when I can. I’ll add a tiny (tiny!) bit of gel in the AM to control random frizzies but overall this does a nice job.
OP
Yes – my old haircut is so grown out that it’s now super flippy and I hate it
Anonymous
I have very similar hair. It’s wavy, but not in a way that’s useful for styling. The waves are long and deep and irregular, and left to their own devices will approximate a 1970s style, and not in a good way. To avoid heat styling beyond a quick blow-dry, I have to keep my hair much shorter than shoulder-length. Air-drying is never a good option for me, even with a very short pixie, because it leads to a weird helmet effect. I need the blow-dryer to take out some of the weirdness of the wave and give the hair some lift at the roots.
Right now my hairstyle is a cross between Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s pixie shag from last fall’s Brittania awards (not the horrid one-length chop from Fleabag!) and Natalie Imbruglia’s hair from the “Torn” video circa 1997. To take out bulk and add texture, I ask my stylist to “slice” the hair. I can style it with just a blow dryer in well under 10 minutes, no brush required.
Ribena
Watching with interest as this is what I want too – last had a cut in January and have ended up as a bit of a lockdown Rapunzel. I have over the last few months realised that I have wavy hair (2b ish) and have been doing a modified Curly Girl Method so planning to call a local stylist who is reputedly good for curls and just trust in her with those same parameters.
Abby
This isn’t a rec for a haircut, but re your wavy hair: I thought I had semi-wavy hair but also didn’t want to heat style everyday and decided in July since I’m working from home for an extended period that I’d try the curly girl method and it changed my life. Hair has minimal frizz, I think my hair just keeps looking better and better, and the best part is it’s more consistent- I know pretty much what my hair will look like after I wash it, instead of my old tactic of just hoping for the best.
Ribena
Haha, jinx! The reason mine is modified is that I work out daily and I sweat a LOT so I’m still using shampoo, but then squishing in the Body Shop Banana conditioner.
Abby
I do too, and I’ve let my hair dry after working out, and then assess from there if I need to actually shampoo! Also, I’ve tried “shampooing” with conditioner – not sure if it could work for you!
Ribena
I have this weird thing from high school where we had PE first period and then had to sit around sweaty for the rest of the day that I just can’t stand feeling at all sweaty after working out – but I will give it a try!
Abby
I’ll body shower, or just get my roots wet after working out. Alternatively, if it’s really bad, I’ll wash my hair but leave out the shampoo so I can restyle again.
OP
Hm interesting. I don’t mind the wave, but it so rarely looks good / it’s so inconsistent.
What was the transition period like? I’m still going to the office so I’m wary about the transition period. Ribena – you’d mentioned a modified curly girl because you work out a lot. I also work out most days a week so would likely have to modify though.
I’d love to have nice looking waves though!!
KS IT Chick
I have always had wavy hair that inched towards curly. In July, I got my first “custom curl cut”, where each curl is cut individually, instead of the standard layers. It has been life changing. It still has shape and the curls just go for days. I can go 3 to 4 days between washing, instead of washing every 2 days.
If you can find someone who has training for that type of cut, it makes a huge difference.
Ribena
Transition hasn’t been too bad – but at the moment it’s still long enough that I can chuck it in a french plait without much trouble! I might try ‘washing’ with conditioner tomorrow and see how it feels.
Abby
I never had a bad transition period, however I’ve also never dyed my hair, and had cut back heat styling in the last year already so I’m not working with a lot of damaged hair. I workout everyday, and am amazed at how good my hair can still look after running in a ponytail. I started in the beginning of July, with a reset wash, and since then slowly added products. In the beginning I would just use conditioner, and gel. I’ve added a deep conditioner, a clarifying wash, and a curl activator since then. I started with maybe 2B curls, and my hair is now clumping together much better, the curl pattern is more uniform throughout my hair and I really do not have nearly as much frizz.
I can give you more details if you’d like if you want to drop a burner!
Anonyz
I did it in stages to make the process easier. My motivation was partly to see what my true curliness was, and partly to fix major damage from waitressing (constant flat ironing, and harsh washes to remove fryer grease smell).
First I quit using any heat tools, and wore it up in a twist on days that the wave wasn’t attractive. (I also quit hair elastics, switching to jaw clips to prevent breakage.) Then I switched to silicone-free and sulfate-free shampoo and conditioner. Then I started gelling in the shower with dripping hair and plopping.
Learning what works on your hair is really the hardest part. I had a few setbacks with routines and products that weren’t good for me. (I paid a fortune for a DevaCut that made me look like an 80s perm victim. Also, no-poo leaves my scalp itchy, smelly, and disgusting.) My best results come with CGM-friendly shampoo and getting a standard layered haircut.
Anonymous
Pixie?
Anonymous
This is a terrible time to have a pixie cut. I had to grow mine out this spring because salons were closed for several months and it needed to be trimmed every 4 weeks. Something a bit longer is a safer bet these days.
pugsnbourbon
Yeah I’m always one to recommend a pixie but if you don’t already have one, now is not the time (unless you wanna buzz it, which is a cool option!). I’d stick with a just above the shoulders blunt cut that, worst case, you can trim yourself.
anon
Same. Mine has grown out into a short, layered bob, which I actually like! But yeah, I won’t be going back to a pixie cut until being able to maintain it is a sure thing.
OP
Oh no I could not rock a pixie
Alice walks
And a pixie for me is a ton of maintenance. I must wash every day and must blow dry everyday or I look awful. And if I don’t trim it every 3 weeks I also look bad.
This was the worst haircut of my life.
Sloan Sabbith
I love pixie cuts! Except for during covid. My hair looks like a mullet, and has for months, because I missed the period where I would feel OK getting it cut and now even though the situation is a little better I can’t again because I am newly massively immunocompromised.
Do not get a pixie.
Arla
I have similar hair and got it cut in like a lob, with some layers added with a razor. I think the razor part made a huge difference. I’ve never been that loyal to any one stylist but now I want to go back to that one.
Anonymous
I got a lob with NO layers. It’s probably the first time I’ve had a haircut without layers and it’s wonderful for combatting frizz. I have thick, fine, wavy hair.
anon
Debate: Did anyone watch? What are your thoughts? Does anyone plan on watching any more of the presidential debates given how the first one went?
I watched and am having a hard time processing what happened on that stage.
I thought Biden got some excellent points in between the constant barrage of lies from Trump. The barrage is expected at this point, as it’s MO, but it’s difficult to listen to, especially in a supposed debate format. I wished Biden would have thrown more and snappier comebacks at the words being spewed at him. Biden wasn’t perfect but came off far better than I thought he would.I liked that many times he kept talking despite what was happening at the other podium.
I don’t think I have another presidential debate in me and am more eager than ever to vote and get this election cycle finished.
Anon
I don’t think Biden did great but given that the Republicans are trying to convince us he has dementia, he did fine. They set a really low bar and he cleared it easily.
Z
Given that he could rarely complete a sentence without Trump butting in, he did quite well.
Anon
But to people who would even consider voting for Trump, “rarely being able to complete a sentence without Trump butting in” just makes him look like a weak person getting mowed down by someone strong.
Z
Trump looked like a petulant child the entire time. Will never understand how people can see that as “strong.”
Anon
I’d say to those voters “I’d rather vote for someone who couldn’t get a sentence in edgewise on one night than someone who can’t form a coherent sentence, ever.”
Anon
People like the way he talks too. He’s far from the only person who talks that way! I’ve also noticed people imitating his speech patterns while he’s been in office.
anon
Trump was a disaster, as expected. Biden fell short of my expectations but if I were to judge him by the same low standard that everyone applies to Trump, I guess he actually knocked it out of the park. I don’t think I have it in me to watch another one of these — Trump is such a vile creature.
Anon
Biden should have reminded Trump that Herman Cain died after contracting Covid at one of his indoor rallies. Major opportunity missed, but he got some others including leading Trump into the situation where he didn’t condemn the Proud Boys. And as you say, no signs of dementia.
Anon
From CNN: “It is unknown where Cain contracted the virus.”
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/30/politics/herman-cain-dies-coronavirus/index.html
So I’m glad Biden didn’t “remind” Trump that Cain died of a virus contracted at his rally, but maybe you can explain why making up facts is a good thing.
Anon
Yeah, this claim is totally unproven and would have been an idiotic thing for Biden to say. His responses on Covid were great, even Fox News said he won that part of the debate. The place where I really felt he could have answered better was the questions about the Supreme Court.
No Face
An accurate point is that Herman Cain attended an indoor rally without a mask and died a few days later. People were unnecessarily exposed to COVID-19 at that rally.
Anon
Yeah, I felt very embarrassed that these were our candidates. It was a horrible debate and we were all the losers for having watched. Trump was of course horrible and I obviously agreed with Biden’s points over his but I don’t think Biden was that great at debating. He missed some obvious points and he wasn’t forceful enough. Pretty annoyed at him for running.
Anon
+1
Bonkers
I’m pro-Biden at this point, but I am grossly dissatisfied with whoever prepped him to debate the moron in chief. I don’t think either came out looking good. At all.
S-non
I disagree. It was a horrible debate <>. If there was another adult on stage there then with Biden it would have been fine.
Anon
Yeah, I don’t understand this take at all. Biden did fine in all the Democratic primary debates when he was debating other humans. The problem was that he was trying to “debate” a monkey flinging its feces around, not a person.
S-non
That was supposed to say
Betsy
Yeah, I don’t really care how well Biden performed at trying to get a word in edgewise around a temper tantruming elderly man on a stage. That’s not the skill we need in a president. I think the old adage “don’t argue with a fool because he’ll just bring you down to his level and beat you with experience” applies here. I think anyone on that debate stage would do poorly, this isn’t a Biden problem. Honestly I wish they would move the next debate to a Q&A format – ask each candidate the same question, give them the same period of time to respond, and cut them off at the allotted period of time. The whole thing could be done remotely, and maybe the moderator could provide some level of fact checking after the answers were given. I hope something changes for the next debate, because what happened last night certainly wasn’t helpful for anyone.
Anon
This doesn’t work because the minute one of them criticizes their opponent, the other feels compelled to rebut
Anon
I don’t see how last night was Biden’s fault when he literally couldn’t get a word in edgewise.
Anon
It’s his fault because I was counting on him to get a word in edgewise.
Anon
I guess what I mean is, Trump made this into an all out fight, so that he could win that fight. I wanted Biden to stand up to him successfully and not look like he’s on the defensive. You would think, after the way things have gone, that Trump would be the one on the defensive. And I don’t believe that no one could have done any better. I am not sure whether to believe in Biden’s lead in the polls, and I feel the stakes are so high.
Aunt Jamesina
I refuse to watch any of the debates, my blood pressure just can’t take it. Reading about it later is more than enough. Plus, it has absolutely no effect on my voting choices (blue straight down the ticket), so there’s no point. I’m not sure debates are a great format to assess if someone has the skills to be President, and in our world of 24 hour news and social media, the candidates’ demeanor, presence, platform, and history should be well-known to voters well before the election.
On a related point, I DO NOT UNDERSTAND undecided voters. Even in previous elections, being undecided by this point is a head scratcher. But who are these aliens this year? I feel like everyone I know made their mind up months ago. I read a comment last night along the lines of, “I’d hate to be stuck in line in a coffee shop behind an undecided voter. They’d be dithering between a latte and a cup of toilet water”.
Anon
My friend had the best take on it – she almost posted this response she rage-drafted after seeing one of her idiot cousins post a cheap shot about Biden on Facebook. Crude but accurate.
LOL! Meanwhile voting for Trump is *actually* voting for a man who downplayed the dangers of a deadly virus for political reasons, galvanized mass political violence and social unrest, engaged in openly criminal behavior, AND still hasn’t built that stupid border wall. Since social media apparently rewards crude analogies over actual thought though, here’s one: Voting for Trump in 2016 was like shitting your pants, and voting for him in 2020 is to have lived in your shit-filled pants for so long you forgot what it’s like to be clean and also forgot what bathrooms are for and now you just shit and piss on yourself constantly- to the extent that you’re both a harm to yourself and to others.
Aunt Jamesina
Oh man. Graphic, but true. I think this column by David Sedaris from the 2008 election is very fitting. Oh, for the days of a McCain/Palin (ugh) ticket!: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/10/27/undecided
Anonymous
They’re not undecided …they’ll vote Trump but don’t want to admit.
Aunt Jamesina
Yes, I think many of them feel icky about Trump and want to pretend to go through a lot of deliberation to feel better about their choice.
Anonymous
This. I’m actually worried about Trump winning again. I think a lot of undecided voters don’t want to admit they will vote for Trump.
Anon
It’s the same song and dance Susan Collins did about Kavanaugh. “I have seriously considered the implications…” – no, you just want to look like you did and don’t have the guts to admit Trump owns you too.
Anonymous
Yup.
Anon
Generally it was a sh*tshow but I do get verklempt when Biden talks about Beau
Only watched out of civic duty, because lord knows there’s no question about who I’m voting for
Anonie
A little observation, as everyone has covered the bigger things:
I wish Biden’s team had coached him to keep his head up much much more. When he looked down for long periods of time (I presume at his notes) his eyes looked closed and his posture suggested sleep.
I know it’s unfair and he has a right to check his notes, but I feel so protective of him and I don’t want any more memes and accompanying narrative of “Sleepy Joe.”
Aunt Jamesina
“Sleepy” is practically a reason for me to vote for Biden in and of itself. I’ll take sleepy over chaotic any day!
anon
It’s obvious he was referring to his notes. I don’t think any person of reasonable intelligence would misinterpret that as being sleepy. Plus anyone who is influenced by stupid name-calling memes is already a lost cause.
LaurenB
I hate how we feel we need to be “entertained” or “amused” by our candidates. I don’t need Biden to be interesting. I need him to be competent, intelligent, collegial, and assemble a smart team around him (all of which I certainly think he’ll do). This is the same thing that plagued Al Gore — a competent, intelligent, collegial man — in the 2000 election, because people were “bored” by him. Oh grow up already.
While we are at it, I also despise how people feel they are ignored by a candidate if he doesn’t visit their little precious part of the US. That’s what happened to HRC – she didn’t go to small-town WI, MI, PA, etc. Well, whoop-de-doo. How immature and self-centered do you have to be to only vote for someone if they showed up in your neck of the woods? I couldn’t care less whether either candidate ever steps foot in my state. Do. Not. Care. Irrelevant to anything.
Anon for this
Medical question- I do have a PCP and will be making an appointment to go in.
Have had UTI-like symptoms for about 3 weeks, though severity waxes and wanes (mostly soreness & pain in the area and urge to pee, but not the trademark burn). Some days I can go hours without thinking about it and sleep fine, and others I’m awake at night annoyed at my urethra. No more severe symptoms indicating anything “worse” like kidney infection, etc. Originally they were mild enough I thought I must have done something physically (like a bruise) but when they didn’t go away after 2 weeks and got a bit worse, called the dr. Have tried two antibiotics per telemedicine visit, and have had *some* relief but not total.
So I’ll be going to see my dr in person, but curious if anyone has experienced anything similar? What do I expect from a pelvic exam? If it is going to take time to resolve, thoughts on taking a painkiller at night so I’m at least not exhausted to boot?
anne-on
I don’t think I’ve ever gotten a ‘burn’ with a UTI, just urgency and soreness. At this point I’d make sure to tell your PCP which antibiotics you’ve already used and ask them to test your urine for specific bacteria and maybe go in with a full bladder so your urine is more concentrated? In the interim, I did find cranberry pills + a painkiller to be helpful as a stop gap measure.
Anon
Antibiotics can be tricky because many of them are also anti-inflammatory, so the fact that they’re working doesn’t always confirm the original issue was a bacterial infection. I’m curious if AZO helps?
They will probably want to test to see if it’s an infection and if so, what the infection is (sometimes this affects the choice of treatment). If they think interstitial cystitis, some kind of neuropathy, or some kind of muscle spasm is playing a role, they will probably be generous with painkillers and/or muscle relaxants. Certain types of pain can also be hormonal (I’ve had the “soreness” type pain as a hormonal birth control side effect before). Basically there are a lot of things it could be, so your doctor will be happy to be consulted!
Anonymous
You might be resistant to some antibiotics. They’ll take a urine sample, and send it to the lab. Then they’ll provide proper antibiotics to treat that strain.
pugsnbourbon
I had a weird UTI once – super sore and felt swollen, but not the stabby pain with urination I usually get. Doc took a urine sample and the culture came back as an unusual strain of E. coli; I ended up with an expensive antibiotic that thankfully did the trick.
If it doesn’t actually hurt to pee I’m not sure that AZO would help, but you can try.
Anon for this
Gah, this describes me exactly. OK, calling for an appointment now!
AnonATL
I had a uti once that I mostly ignored which turned into a kidney infection. It was pretty mild to start with just a stronger urge to pee and some pressure.
By the time I got the right antibiotics, I literally could not hold my urine and peed my pants multiple times. I also developed abdominal pain and a high fever.
Don’t be me!
Anon for this
yikes! Glad you are ok. I made an appt for tomorrow morning so hopefully I get the appropriate strain identified asap (or if it’s something else entirely… that too!)
Anonuti
Yup- im on the tail end of a uti that turned into a kidney infection that put me in the hospital coz I couldnt keep food down. Plz go to your dr.
Anonymous
Has your UTI been confirmed by lab testing? I once was convinced I had a UTI with similar symptoms to what you described but my labs came back clear. My mind was totally blown but turns out what I had was some pelvis floor issues somehow recreating UTI-like symptoms. I didn’t need more antibiotics, I needed pelvic floor PT.
Anon for this
No, just telemedicine for now. I’m making an appt to actually go in for an exam and lab work asap. Interesting! Glad you figured it out.
anon
A culture to get the right antibiotics is important if the first round didn’t work. Also, be careful with cranberry pills/juice – that can be very irritating on an inflamed bladder. Once you’ve had your culture done, try supplementing with d-mannose powder (in conjunction with whatever treatment the doctor recommends, of course). It’s very non-irritating and safe. I take it as a preventative. I hope you don’t have interstitial cystitis – I do, and it was brought on by hard-to-treat UTIs. Now I have a super moody, temperamental bladder and get flare ups a few times a year (always testing negative for UTIs but really feeling like I have one), so I have to carefully manage my diet, caffeine intake etc. It’s a drag, and flare ups usually happen when I travel (ugh!).
Cat
Thanks! Made a note of that. I’ve only one UTI before (a few years ago; it cleared up quickly with antibiotic #2) but given how awful they are I will be taking more precautions in the future regardless of dx.
Anon
Yep. Same thing. And similar symptoms to OP. Never any burning. Lab work showed mild/possible UTI so I took an antibiotic and it did nothing. Then went to see a gynecologist/urologist and she diagnosed pelvic floor issues. I was 4 months post partum. Doing PT now. Symptoms are almost gone after 2 sessions.
Ureaplasma Infection
First of all, this sucks and I’m sorry you’re experiencing it. I had something very similar a few years ago and figured it wasn’t a UTI because of the lack of burning / constant pain. I happened to have my annual gyno appointment while I was still experiencing symptoms, so I asked my doc about it. Turns out I had a ureaplasma infection, so I was put on a different kind of meds to clear it.
I’d never heard of such a thing prior to that appointment, so may be worth asking about!
Anonymous
What questions would you like to ask a chef at the end of a meal? We are staying a night at a boutique hotel owned by a chef (who has previously owned Michelin star restaurants) and having the tasting menu. We have been before and he always comes to chat at the end of the meal and I’m never sure what to ask! The focus is on local produce. (We are in a country with low transmission, the place is local to us and it’s allowable that we go. They only have 6 rooms and we will be staying within the grounds the whole time).
Airplane.
None? IDK, I feel like if you have no genuine questions, don’t ask contrived questions, just thank the chef for the wonderful meal and experience and how much you’ve enjoyed staying at the grounds.
Anon
+1.
Anonie
Agreed!
And enjoy your meal!
Anon
If this were me: if any part of the meal really stood out to me (taste, flavour combinations, texture, etc.), I would comment on that.
pugsnbourbon
I think it’s interesting what chefs make for themselves – like what’s their late-night snack or what do they like to make for dinner when it’s just them.
Anon
That’s a great question! Or what do they like to cook for their family and friends, what is their favorite meal, where do they get ingredients
AnonInfinity
I’m dating a chef and this question made me laugh. Mine eats at least one peanut butter and jelly sandwich every day and almost always has “a peanut butter snacky” at night, which is a spoonful of PB on whatever is handy. I’m talking Jif + Welches grape + supermarket bread. He’s much better than the average person at making our normal meals, but it’s always funny to me to describe what he eats when alone. I’m not sure that he says that to people who talk to him about his real food, though.
Along the line of ingredients, a fun question could be to ask whether there were any ingredients in any of the dishes that would be a surprise. If it’s a place that takes pride in using local ingredients, asking about the farmers or meat vendors could be interesting.
Anon
On TV shows, chefs are often asked what inspired them to make a specific dish, particularly if it is some kind of fusion dish.
Anonymous
Aww have so much fun! I went to a dinner like that pre-covid. The chef came and had a drink with us after. We basically thanked him for the lovely meal. We were especially impressed with how he substituted the tasting menu for the dietary restrictions of one of us. He was eager to discuss the challenge of preparing an equally interesting and delicious meal for her. I’ve also noticed that chefs get excited to discuss seasonal ingredients and sourcing. Have fun!
Anonymous
What a lovely opportunity! I don’t dine out much, but love a nice dining experience. I would thank the chef for the meal; say what stood out to you and why; ask about designing the tasting menu or a dish that intrigued you — what did he try before getting it right. Or, how are the hotel, restaurant and local farms coping with covid? Did he run into any challenges?
Paging SA and CPA - re relationship book
I was the poster asking for a relationship book advice yesterday. Thought people might be amused: thanks to SA and CPA for their advice on The Relationship Cure book yesterday. It looked great but when we went to buy it it was sold out at bookshop, amazon and Barnes and Nobles. We managed to find a used copy on ebay. It seems so of the moment that a few months ago White Fragility was sold out everywhere and now it’s the marriage help books.
Anon
Is it even currently in print?
Anon
Yes. I purchased it in June, and found it available pretty much everywhere
anonnnn
Another place to look for used books is abebooks.com – found several copies there!
Senior Attorney
oh wow that’s crazy! I’m glad you were able to find it, and I hope it’s helpful.
Firstime
I put an offer in on my first house yesterday. I like the house., it checks all my boxes. However, I feel physically ill waiting to hear if they accepted my offer or not. Any tips for dealing with the stress of this process?
Cb
Ugh, no advice because I’m right there with you. We got outbid on one and the house we really liked was sold. We had a note of interest but they must have accepted an early offer. I’m exhausted keeping our house staged for sale (thanks prospective buyer who no-showed and then try to neg me, that was awesome of you), by prospect of renting, and discouraged by the fact that I currently hate everything on the market.
Anonyz
Just remember that there is no perfect house. We were outbid on one I wanted so badly that I wept, then a year later an archery school went in next door. Now I’m very happy we’re not living next to kids learning to use deadly weaponry.
Cb
Ha! It is so true. We thought we found a perfect house and got outbid, and realised that the town was a bit sleepy and we likely would have been bored there. The next house we loved has a weird kitchen layout that would annoy me.
Anon
I remember feeling that way while waiting for our house offer to be accepted. We some drank beer, set off some fireworks during the day, and then went to a local water park to kill time/stress. Not sure how much of that is available to you, but definitely do something silly to pass the time if at all possible.
Nesprin
We were out bid three times before buying our house on the 4th try. Go do something pleasant/necessary- organize the junk drawer or go for a walk.
CPA Lady
I am not really a “if it’s meant to be, it’s meant to be” person in general, but I’ve bought two houses (the second one in the last month) and am in the process of selling the first, and it’s a helpful phrase to mutter to yourself through clenched teeth while taking deep slow breaths. I get really emotionally involved in my house (it’s my most beloved hobby) and emotional involvement is not a helpful thing during the real estate transaction process. So I just try to take a huge step back and kind of surrender my anxiety about it to the universe, as woo-woo as that sounds. The offer is just the first step. There are going to be SO MANY other things you are going to need to do and so many unknowns and things out of your control that you could drive yourself bonkers if you don’t find a way to let it go.
I will also second the “there’s no such thing as a perfect/dream home”. I have looked at tons of houses, both online and in real life and there are always more fish in the sea. Things you don’t think will come on the market will pop up suddenly. Things that you think you will like, it turns out are not so great (historic charm = nothing is a standard size and replacing anything is nightmare). Things you’ve never considered sometimes become more appealing over time.
I have looked at a ton of houses both online and in person. A house was bought out from under us when we were looking for our first house, but it would have, in retrospect, not been a house that would have worked well for us. Last year I looked at a house that I really liked but it didn’t end up working out. Last month, we bought a house that we like much better … and I can see the other house from the front porch! It’s funny how things work out. If it’s meant to be, it’ll be.
Anonymous
Recommendations for supportive bralettes for well endowed women (does such a thing exist?)? I’m a 36G, and I’m sick of underwire (especially since I’m WFH for the foreseeable future), but in my experience bras that do not have an underwire are not supportive enough. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Anon
Try the Curvy Sweetie by Cosabella. I was a 34G (just got a reduction) and that worked for me.
Anon
I’m a 38G and I bought this. It’s fine for lounging around the house, and I tend to wear it on the hottest days when I can’t stand the idea of a tight bra. But it’s only slightly better than no bra at all, support wise. It doesn’t have the structure to lift.
That being said, it was the only bralette that worked for my cup size at all. The others I tried looked like they might work but my boobs were just spilling out of them.
Anon
Those True full cup bralettes aren’t bad because the cups are actually big enough (though order up, their sizing runs small) but something about the way they fit makes my shoulders scrunch up. The best wireless bra I’ve found is a nursing bra – Bravado Body Silk full cup (the full cup designation is important). I think you could convert them to regular bras.
HSAL
Yep, the Body Silk. I’ve owned them for almost 2 1/2 years, even though I quit nursing well over a year ago. I have a few others that are fine, but even the worn nursing bras are the best. I haven’t bothered to convert them. Second place goes to a Soma racerback.
Anon
I wear the coobie “full figure” or whatever their larger one is called. I’m a 32/34 G. While they don’t hold my boobs up the highest, they are perfectly supportive for loungewear type situations. They’d also pass on Zoom where my chest is mostly out of frame. (Obviously with a shirt underneath.)
ollie
Lively Busty Bralette
Non-wired
I have two that I really like:
1) https://www.bravissimo.com/us/products/non-wired-bra-ce101/#black-ce101blk: Don’t be scared by the fact that it is S/M/L sized it is meant for larger cups and has significant adjustability in the band (34 H and I wear an L)
2) https://www.bravissimo.com/us/products/zara-bralette-ln605/#black-ln605blk comes in fun colors and is pretty comfortable!
Honestly, I’d be willing to dry anything listed on the Bravissimo website
Kitten
I wouldn’t go running in them or anything but I like the American Eagle bralettes that come in S-XL “D” and “DD”. Also cheap AF. For reference I’m a 30dd and size “S D” works for me in these:
https://www.ae.com/us/en/p/aerie/bralettes/longline-bralettes/aerie-eyelash-lace-racerback-bralette/1697_3074_125?menu=cat4840006
Anonymous
Uniqlo built in bra Airism tanks. I am a 36 E and will even dare to wear them out of the house on weekends (with another shirt on top). Definitely ok for zoom. And they are insanely comfortable.
Anon
I found out today via a mutual friend’s FB post that my very conservative ex-BF is a Never Trump-er despite his politics and my cold dead heart grew at least a size. Apparently my judgment of character is better than I thought.
Anon
My favorite post so far today.
Anon
I was very close with a guy through high school and college and everyone asked why we never dated. I was very liberal and he was very conservative and I just couldn’t see it ever working. He married a woman more conservative (and religious) than him. We drifted over the years and I quit social media for 10 years. I returned and much to my surprise, they both seem to be democrats now! Like, they were presidents of their respective young republican clubs back in the day. What surprises me more is they are both still very active in their church and open about their change in politics.
Z
That is incredible! I love to hear that.
Anonie
As a politically liberal Christian, I love these stories! Woohoo for Christians who think critically.
Shenandoah
Love this! I say that as a former Young Republicans Club secretary and now bleeding heart liberal.
Seventh+Sister
My uncle as well as my first cousin are old conservative guys who absolutely loathe Trump. I’ve always disliked their political beliefs, and it feels so good to have some kind of common ground.
Paging girl’s tennis clothes
There’s a sale on zulily today for kids tennis and golf attire if you still need it.
They have leggings and skorts.
Anon
Let’s make our debate anger productive. Who’s donating to Biden today (just made my next donation last night!)? How’s volunteering going? What types of volunteering have worked out best for you during coronavirus?
Anon
I just went and voted absentee so that nothing can keep me from the polls day of.
Anonymous
I monitor my kid’s phone because she is 11. She is getting several texts re voting and it is creeping me out. I don’t want adults on her phone texting her and not labeling themselves “Biden campaign” or whatever. Instead, they are from Josh and Amari and other names that coincide with kids she knows at school. I block and delete but this is a nuisance and I wish you would screen people. Moms don’t need more tasks now or ever.
Anon
How did they get her phone number? I assume your 11 year old is not registered to vote or donating money to a campaign.
Anonymous
It is so freaky. Last night I deleted a text with 10 people on it. Do they give texting volunteers training? Or what to do if they reach a child? Really disappointed — I’m not sure there is a way to make a kids phone number private and unlisted and “do not call”.
Kiddo only had a phone due to need to take a cross-city bus to school (which never happened) and we don’t have a home phone anymore.
Anon
That does not sound like a campaign text at all. I haven’t gotten any (and I’ve gotten tons) with more than one person on them and they always clearly identify a candidate or issue. Don’t blame the Biden election effort for what sounds like pure spam.
Anon
What do you mean multiple people? Texts from campaigns are just to one person and they identify what campaign they’re with, eg., “Hi this is Jill from the Biden campaign.” Agreed that this doesn’t sound like a legitimate campaign text.
Anonymous
OP here — a lot aren’t identified with a campaign, but want to engage you on an issue that ties in with a campaign. Some say campaign for some down-ballot race. But engaging with a child is just such a red flag to me. I get that people on the other end may just be spamming the universe, but some kid is going to engage with someone with a familiar name and that may be a very bad choice for that kid to have innocently made.
Z
Could be that the phone number was previously associated with someone that would be on these lists. There are real people behind the text messages if they say like “It’s Amari with Joe Biden”, you can reply STOP or “please remove me from your list” and they should be able to do so.
Aunt Jamesina
Yes, aren’t numbers typically taken from donor lists? I imagine someone either accidentally listed your daughters’ number, or someone who had that number before her donated.
Pep
I imagine the phone account is under mom or dad’s name.
Isn’t there a setting where all texts that come from non-contacts are deleted or not shown?
Anonymous
I text for the Biden campaign (as a volunteer) and it’s numbers from the voter registry. It’s possible your kid has a number that belonged to someone else previously. If the person identifies themselves as a minor, our response is “I’ll take you off the list, thanks!” She can always respond “STOP” and they’ll take her off the list.
Carrots
I donated to Joe and to Sara Gideon in Maine this morning! Have to be on a webinar for work today and will most likely do more Vote Forward letters while my camera is off.
Anon
Yesss thank you! Mainer here and Sara is great. I’m excited to vote FOR her, not just to get rid of Susan Collins.
BeenThatGuy
Curious: does anyone has to co-parent with someone that could be described as fiscally irresponsible? For some background, I’m divorced over a decade and generally have a very easy time co-parenting. Both my ex and I are recoupled/remarried, live in the same town and do lots together for the well being of our child. While I would not particularly describe the divorce as amicable, our interspousal agreement was “easy”, mostly because we both do well financially individually, split our assets 50/50 long ago and share expenses related to our son equally. That said, he makes poor choices that affect me financially…for example, taking our son to a dentist that is out of network and then requesting me to reimburse him for half of the payment. Or buying a $300 piece of sporting equipment, when there are perfectly fine pieces of equipment for $100 and expect me to pay my share. For the most part, I’m conflict adverse, so I grumble a bit, ask him to be more financially respectful to me, and fork the money over. Does anyone have advice on how to approach this?
Anon
When you said “financially irresponsible,” my thought went to really financially irresponsible people I know. One of my parents is just terrible with money and will spend every cent they get; this meant that the other parent made do without child support and had to pay the entire cost of my college. (Divorce agreement stated that the cost would be split 50/50.)
That language strikes me as loaded. The issue is that he’s not aggressively bargain-shopping for your kid, not that he’s such a spendthrift that you have to shoulder the entire burden of child-rearing on your own.
It’s hard to do these things after the fact; however, consider saying something like, “The lacrosse sticks are $100 used at Dick’s Sporting Goods. Here’s $100, which pays for the entire thing.” Or “If there’s a reason that Son needed to go to that particular dentist, I’ll pay half. But since you just didn’t bother checking, let me run the numbers and I’ll reimburse you accordingly.”
BeenThatGuy
I’ll try that, thanks.
Anon
I don’t have kids but do practice divorce law. Many of my agreements stipulate that absent emergencies, you need to get the other parents agreement for any purchase over $100 that they expect half reimbursement for. If you say no or suggest a cheaper alternative they can accept your lower contribution or have the issue mediated. Most people don’t want to mediate over a baseball bat so they take the lower reimbursement. Few are vindictive enough to say fine, the kid gets nothing.
On the OON dentist though, are there good options in network? My in-network options are TERRIBLE so my whole family goes out of network and it is worth every penny.
Anon
+1 on the dentist, unless you have really great insurance the ones who take insurance are probably really scammy, the kind of dentist that will tell you that you have 20 cavities and then you get a second opinion and they say you have no cavities. Most reputable dentists don’t accept many kinds of insurance. Not the main point, I know, but I’ve never used a dentist that takes my insurance because the options are so limited and bad.
Anonie
Wait what?? Interesting. I have never heard of anything like this. My dentist office is wonderful and they accept my insurance. I have a close family member who is a dentist elsewhere…about to ask for their take.
Anon
I agree with her comment – it may depend on what kind of dental insurance you have. There are different tiers of the same plans – my old one was some kind of plus tier that must have reimbursed more but now I’m in a basic, common plan (same insurance name fwiw) and lots of dentists don’t take it. I can still submit for reimbursement and if I don’t have any issues the extra cost is negligible for regular checkups.
NY CPA
Same. I’ve always used dentists who take insurance, and have never had any issues.
Anonymous
It depends on the plan. Our options include a plan that sounds much more cost-effective, until you find out that there are virtually no in-network providers and none are reputable. The more expensive plan, in terms of both premiums and out-of-pocket costs, has a much larger network that includes pretty much every provider in the area. They are both Delta plans.
Anon
Same. I have Delta Dental and I’ve just never come across a dentist who doesn’t take it.
Anon
My dentist’s office is wonderful, but when my daughter away at college went to a different dentist out of state, they told her she had 9 cavities. Our local dentist actually offered to look at her xrays for free and told he saw one cavity, which could wait until Thanksgiving break. Dentists vary, but many try to maximize insurance payments with unnecessary or overly frequent treatment. Even our wonderful dentist tries to schedule every checkup on the exact 6 month anniversary of the last checkup. When I push back though, they are very nice about it and let me space out my checkups more (I have no dental problems and historically very few cavities).
Anon
There are a million Delta Dentals though, you have Delta Dental of Different states, like Delta Dental of California (and it has no bearing on the state where you live or are employed). Then there are different options within that Delta Dental. Your employer may have picked a Delta Dental that reimburses more but there are plenty of undesirable Delta Dental plans out there, if that makes sense. You wouldn’t know unless you had one of the bad ones. I’ve had Delta Dental, changed the option with my employer, and my dentist wouldn’t take my different Delta Dental plan.
Anon
I feel dental insurance itself is often a bit scammy.
Pep
Agreed – I stopped buying it years ago. I just use HSA money to pay dental bills
Anon
You’re rolling the dice that you don’t end up needing major dental work. If you’re comfortable self insuring that, then more power to you. My husband had major, major dental work done due to an injury, and boy did having dental insurance pay off!
It’s like not carrying medical insurance because you’re healthy. You should at least have some coverage for unforeseen catastrophic events. (High deductible, high limit.) It is just good financial planning.
Anon
But the dental plans available to me through employment have never offered substantial coverage for major dental work. They mostly cover preventive care and then offer a bit of a discount on catastrophic. It feels more like a discount club than like any kind of real insurance to me.
Anon
Dental insurance is very different than medical insurance. It mostly covers preventative cleanings. It does not cover many, if not most, dental emergencies. If the cost of two cleanings + x-rays is less than the yearly premiums, it can be a very wise financial decision to not carry dental insurance. Also worth noting that a “catastrophic” amount of dental work might amount to $10k, which is less than my OOP maximum on my HDHP health plan and comfortably within my budget. It’s totally different than healthcare, where a single accident or diagnosis might leave you on the hook for hundreds of thousands or even millions in bills. My father in law was hospitalized for a couple weeks with a stroke and his insurance was billed $75,000 a DAY during his hospitalization. Suffice it to say that’s not in most people’s budgets. There’s no dental equivalent of that.
Equestrian Attorney
Unrelated to OP’s question, but as a Canadian, is this common in the US? I’ve literally never been to a dentist who wouldn’t take my (private, work-related) insurance, and I go to a fancy downtown clinic. And insurance reimburses me even if the dentists’ office won`t process it directly. Do you pay the whole thing out of pocket? What is even the point of insurance? I get that the US doesn`t have single-payer healthcare, but reading about the complexities of US healthcare on this site always leaves me deeply perplexed.
NY CPA
No. I am deeply perplexed as well. I’ve never heard of this being an issue among anyone I know.
Anonymous
Yes this is all common
Anon
Dental insurance is totally separate from medical insurance in the US, and dental insurance is even more of a mess than health insurance. Many employers who offer reasonably good medical insurance don’t offer dental insurance, or offer bargain basement dental insurance that has almost no value. Many people also choose not to pay for dental insurance because it generally doesn’t cover as much and the risks of not having it are lower than the risks of not having medical insurance. If you don’t have health insurance you may get diagnosed with cancer and end up owing millions of dollars for treatment. If you have no dental insurance, you may be on the hook for a few thousand dollars of dental work. Many affluent people feel comfortable running the risk of the latter but not the former.
My work has several dental insurance plans. I have the lowest (free) one, and it is definitely not worth much. Most dentists don’t take it and I’ve heard bad things about those who do. I know some people who have paid for the more expensive plans but have been very frustrated by all the things that ended up being excluded from it and they weren’t even sure they came out ahead financially. Our health insurance system is not great, but dental insurance is definitely an even bigger mess.
Anon
For me, in-network dentists are not allowed to balance bill. They take the insurance reimbursement and that is it. Out-of-network dentists can balance bill. So if I have a 300 procedure and insurance pays $150, I pay the other $150.
For me, in-network dentists are all the scammy chains you see on TV. There was one private dentist I tried and he had horrible bedside manner, totally messed up filling one of my cavities that I had to have my prior out of network dentist fix (and you bet I went back to the prior dentist for good). I had trouble closing my mouth after the procedure and he yelled at me for being dramatic and took his hand and forcibly closed my mouth shut. I know that doesn’t mean all in-network dentists are bad but when I asked around, no one recommended the in-network ones on my plan.
Anon
I have had similar experiences with in-network radiology labs and wildly inaccurate radiology reports. Except in my case, I found that the reputable imaging centers associated with hospitals are also in-network, but have been left off my insurance company’s in-network list! But the only way to find out was to risk an out-of-a-network copay.
anon
We had cheap dental insurance (Aetna DMO/dental maintenance), that had a SUPER small list of providers – either scammers: dentist who didn’t even look in my daughters mouth after her cleaning, yes seriously or, serving a high poverty area where you are the only insured person, not bad…but nothing fancy.
We switched to a PPO dental plan and don’t have trouble finding coverage.
But yes, if you just need 2x year cleanings no dental insurance is about the same as paying out of pocket, IMO.
Anonyz
I’ve never had a dentist take my insurance, but I’ve never had dental insurance that made that a problem. The dentist submits the bill, the insurance pays the allowable amount, and I pay the extra, which usually amounts to 20-40 dollars for a routine six-month visit.
anon
This isn’t necessarily true with pediatric dentists. Dental insurance for children is one of the essential benefits (at least until the ACA is overturned), so any child with health insurance has dental insurance, and more pediatric dentists seem to accept some insurance (though maybe not OP’s). It’s not scammy for a pediatric dentist to take insurance.
anonn
really? then why can I add my child to my dental plan? I have a 3 year old that should probably see a dentist, but I’m waiting to add her to my 2021 plan. How do I figure this out?
anon
My mistake. Pediatric dental coverage is an essential benefit, but only small group, individual, and exchange plans are required to cover the essential health benefits. Large employers and self-funded plans are not. So, any child with medical coverage through individual, exchange, or small group plans also has dental coverage as a health insurance benefit (not a separate dental policy). That includes many children, and it is relatively common, though not universal, in my area for pediatric dentist to be in network.
anonn
darn. we are large group. but that has its own perks. thanks for clarifying
Anon
What in the classist nightmare? No, plenty of reputable dentists take insurance, unless they want exclude all but the 10% wealthiest people as clients. The key is to find a good dentist by word of mouth not avoiding dentists that take insurance.
Anon
I think the issue is more “ethical dentists” vs. “unethical dentists,” given that a lot of dental insurance is actually a bad deal? The classist nightmare here is that medical issues involving the teeth are not covered by health insurance.
Anon
I guess it depends on your insurance. When I had Delta Dental, lots of dentists accepted it. All of my other plans, Federal Blue Cross, GEHA, there is hardly anyone on network. Also, dental insurance isn’t that common. Usually it is only the really good jobs that offer it. Many law firms don’t even offer it.
BeenThatGuy
OP here – according to my son’s Orthodontist, I have the “Cadillac” of dental insurance policies.
Anonymous
For the dentist I would address this. Medical care needs to be a joint decision. Not because of the money even but like this child needs to have one regular dentist. For the sporting equipment “hey if you want me to chip in for things over $100, please let me know in advance.”
Aunt Jamesina
+1. Yes, and tell him to let you know in advance via email or text so there’s a record.
Anonymous
I like this approach better than the person above who suggested simply saying it should have been $100 and only paying that.
Anonymous
Chiming in to say that while this would drive me nuts, it is also not nearly as bad as it could be. You have basically described my dad. Dad would always take us to the fancy sporting goods store, take us out to dinner, buy tickets to things last minute when only the expensive seats are left, etc. He and my mom were still married and it drove her insane. She booked all the medical stuff but I guarantee you if Dad were in charge we’d be going to the most convenient dentist or the one his friend uses, not the most cost effective one.
FWIW they divorced when I was 22, not due to financial reasons.
My husband is also somewhat the same way, though has learned over the years to shoot me a text to ask if it matters. Like, he doesn’t want to spend an hour researching the cheapest lacrosse stick. He goes to the lax store and buys the one the salesperson recommends and checks the errand off the list.
Anonymous
I guess it depends how often this happens and how much it impacts your budget. I can totally understand the annoyance, particularly if you’re being nickel and dimed, but I wouldn’t be inclined to have conflict with the ex for a relatively small extra expense. Then again, he shouldn’t buy kid the absolute top of the line stuff without consulting with you first.
Anonymous
Talk to me about living with a partner with depression/anxiety? Specifically what is the line between support versus enabling them to sit around and feel miserable? FWIW he wants it to get better – has done a bunch of physical testing to rule out problems but now must connect with a dr who can prescribe the right drug and I’m told dosing/finding the right one can take time. The whole process has taken a long time — going from just being miserable to actually doing something about it, some tests need insurance pre authorization, a dr appointment yesterday was canceled because the dr was out etc. But in the meantime (it hasn’t been weeks, it’s been like 3+ months), I feel like it’s a lot of him being down and sitting on the couch, me constantly checking on him while running around doing everything. What’s the balance here because this is sustainable for me to do it all while another person with what I assume is mild depression/anxiety plays on his phone 24-7.
Anonymous
It took me one day to get depression meds. I told my general practitioner doctor I felt depressed, she gave me a prescription, I filled it. I’m not like 110% better but I’m literally 5 days it has been like a light switch turning on. Sure some people need a lot of trial and error but plenty dont! You don’t need to be constantly checking on him. He’s fine. You do need to say things like “TimJohn, I can’t do everything. I know you’re going through a tough time, but you still need to do things. Please put your phone down and go unload the dishwasher and take the trash out now.” I’m depressed and anxious and single, so I don’t have a WifeMaid to cater to my needs and have to do things.
Anonymous
You are lucky. I told my obgyn I was depressed and she said “Take calcium. It works wonders”. I told my PCP that I was depressed. He said “Not my area. See a therapist.” I went to a therapist and after talking to her for 50 minutes she said “My schedule is full. Not taking any new patients.” I was depressed for over a year and no one would help me. I muddled through crying every day and telling myself not to jump off the bridge I had to drive over every day to work. Years later I am doing a lot better due to circumstances and effort on my part but it’s too simple to say that you anyone can get help in a day.
Anonymous
So you’re doing the household chores while he sits and plays on his phone all day? Does he work? That is just unacceptable. If he’s physically able, he needs to contribute to the household. I would put my foot down.
Anon
Depression is an illness, just like the flu or anything else that might have you laid up. She said her partner is trying to get treatment. It’s not an overnight process and compassion is needed.
Anon
No, but just like when I have a cold, I have to gut it out and get sh*t done.
Anon
The absolute least helpful thing you can ever say to someone with depression is “just suck it up and do ___.” That’s the fast track to making someone feel like absolute sh*t and that their loved ones would be better off without them. You can have a reasonable conversation with a depressed spouse without being a jerk about it.
Anon
I’ve only experienced depression once, and it was as a result of SSRI discontinuation syndrome (after being prescribed an SSRI for a non-psychological condition that was initially misdiagnosed as anxiety).
I was absolutely not capable of getting up and doing dishes. I could only sleep and cry. But I was also absolutely not capable of messing around on my phone, so this seems different to me.
Anon
Exactly. I live alone and don’t have family. Depression or not, stuff needs to happen, bills need paid and I am the only one in my life that can make it so. It might not be to my normal standard, but checking out of life and messing around on my phone 24/7 is not an option.
clara
But I think Anonymous above has a point. When I was first depressed (and had not idea what it was) I was living off campus during college, so I had to do a lot of normal, day to day things and chores. Of course being depressed makes it very hard to do those things, and I definitely did the bare minimum (simple meals that count as food, tidy but wouldn’t please my mother, etc . . ) but I still did them. And I’ve had depressive episodes at different points but I’ve also just had to rely on myself and do these things – and I also knew it would be better for me if I did.
Anonymous
Compassion is needed, but depression isn’t a free pass to stiff your partner with all the housework. I have known plenty of people with depression, and how they treat their families has less to do with their level of depression than with whether they are a selfish jerk completely independent of their depression.
Anon
+100000000000
Anonyz
100% agreed. It’s not an excuse to treat your spouse like a servant.
Anon
+1 Mental illness doesn’t turn people into jerks.
Anon
It doesn’t turn them into jerks, but it can and does turn people into very ill individuals who legitimately cannot get off the couch without immense struggle. The OP can take it or leave it, but telling someone to get over it and start contributing because they’re just faking it/milking it will only make things worse. I would feel completely worthless if I was that ill and my spouse did that to me.
Anon
Psychology used to distinguish more consistently between full blown major depression (profoundly disabling, can’t leave the house, can’t work, can only leave bed for brief spells) and other kinds of depressive mood disorders that one can have while remaining employed, while continuing to do chores, etc. I think it’s confusing when these are called the same thing, because people think of what one depressed person was able to do as if every depressed person should be able to do the same things. Maybe OP’s husband is doing the reverse, if he has mild depression but is acting like he has something more severe; I’m not sure.
Cb
I was your partner for a bit last year, I did everything I needed to do but kind of emotionally checked out of my relationships and just felt so tightly wound all the time that my instinct was to retreat. It must be incredibly frustrating to be the one running around. I’d see if you could come to some agreement about the division of labor. Are there things that he can take off your plate that don’t require a lot of initiative? Can you prioritise your self-care as well?
To give you some hope, meds triggered an immediate change in how I felt (partially chemical and I think largely because I had asked for the help I needed and got my family to realise I was struggling) and I feel so much better.
Aunt Jamesina
I have been the partner with depression and anxiety, and I still pulled my weight around the house because I realized things had to get done. It would sometimes take me awhile to mentally gear myself up for a particular task (like, hours, not a week), or I would go about it in a simple way (more convenience food than I’d normally prefer) but I would always do it. What I withdrew from was socializing and taking care of myself.
I think you need to really think about what you want from a partner. Someone on their phone “24/7” might not be someone who’s anywhere near being able to be a good partner. Did he contribute equally before this episode?
Anon
My husband has very serious depression. It has to be treated and he needs to actively work on managing it for us to be in a functional relationship. I recommend you say I know this is hard, and to be a healthy family I need you to 1) start the process of figuring out medication and 2) be actively engaged in therapy by X date. You will probably need to do the work to find docs, therapists, set up appointments to get this started.
People don’t really get cured of depression but they can make material improvement in reduction and severity of symptoms – that’s the goal. Once he is more functional, I recommend marriage counseling because you need a space where someone will help you be heard and figure out healthy dynamics. Good luck.
Anonymous
OP here — to give more color. He has taken anxiety meds two times in the last few years for a grand total of ONE DAY each. It was — oh I don’t like how this makes me feel, I quit. He didn’t even stick it out a few days to see if it was just the adjustment period of the drug. This time he is desperate for the drugs so he says he’ll take them. IDK I read on here that it’s “easy” for people — as in call a dr, who calls in some drug, they take it and largely feel fine/better within days — and with him EVERYTHING is a process. So he’s already assuming it’ll be a long trial and error process with dosing etc. Even his dr. says this is mild depression so I would think it shouldn’t be THAT big of a deal re medication. As for doing things around the house, I don’t see why he can’t chop some vegetables when asked (like 5-10 min worth not chopping vegetables all day) or empty the dishwasher without being asked (since he knows it runs daily at the same time). Yet when he’s sitting and reading on his phone or on whatsapp calls with extended family members he’s never met (we’re talking like 3rd cousins and his uncle’s cousin on the other side of uncle’s family) THEN he seems pretty happy/content. When it’s time to pitch in — it’s about physical symptoms of depression. I don’t want to be mean because I understand there ARE physical symptoms of depression so I don’t want to push, the same way you wouldn’t push someone who was sick. But then I think — I assume half the population (I’m guessing – I have no idea) has some form of depression/anxiety, including many ladies here — they all manage to take out the trash and wash dishes likely because they are single/don’t have a wife to do it. I’m at a loss because I go back and forth between feeling really concerned for him vs. thinking — get over it tons of people have depression, you’re using it as an excuse.
Aunt Jamesina
Everything really is a process with depression and anxiety. Calling to make an appointment was always the hardest part for me. But you have to take care of yourself, too. Know that your last few years together paint a picture of what you can expect in the future– medication helps, but depression and anxiety wax and wane for chronic sufferers, even when well-managed. As long as he isn’t trying to help himself, then he won’t be fully available to you as a partner. What do you want?
Anonymous
Obviously he’s using it as an excuse. Come on. Taking meds for one day? He doesn’t care to solve this problem. Sure whatever keep bending over backwards, let him pretend to try again. Maybe this time he’ll actually stick to it. But if not get a divorce. Life is too short for this.
Anonyz
+1000
Been There
Oof. Your post hits home for me in a lot of ways. My boyfriend of 2 years has a bad anxiety disorder that flares up often. He took medication for about 3 weeks last year but didn’t like the side effects, stopped, and refuses to try a different one. I’ve asked him several times to get counseling, try meds again, practice meditation, or do a workbook because his anxiety affects me, too. He won’t do any of that. Luckily he doesn’t refuse to do chores, but he has done other very impulsive and disruptive things like quit a couple of jobs.
What has helped me most was (1) trying to disengage/not feel like I need to fix this for him, and (2) therapy for myself. On (1), if he is upset or anxious, I will hold his hand and tell him it stinks, but I won’t engage in the spiraling or dwelling. If he doesn’t want to do something, I tell him that’s fine and I proceed living my life as normal. For (2), I cannot overstate how helpful it’s been to talk to a professional about this. She has given me real perspective on how to protect myself emotionally and how to help him. She gave me the advice to encourage him to get treatment but NOT to do things like finding him a doctor or a book or whatever, unless he articulates to me that he cannot do those things himself. The therapy has honestly let me to a place where I am breaking up with my boyfriend, mostly due to these issues. I’m not saying that is the right path for you at all, but I decided I cannot live with the instability and refusal to get help forever.
For what it’s worth, I agree that mental health issues are real and have had depression myself. You know your relationship and can see him every day, and if he is not in a real crisis that makes it actually impossible to do these things, it is totally fair for you to expect him to do some simple chores. It is reasonable for you to expect him to help you and himself how he can.
Anonymous
Why on earth are you with him?
Been There
He has a lot of really great qualities, and, honestly I’ve never in my life thought about my own emotional needs and put those first. I know that mental health issues are illnesses and felt like I was being unkind not to try to stick it out and help him.
Like I said, I’m breaking up with him very soon (as in, this weekend). It’s taken some therapy for me to get to that place and to really understand that I can’t fix someone else’s issues for them.
Aunt Jamesina
Good luck, Been There!
Anon
Yeah you’re not married to this guy. I like to remind people who are dating someone that this is a preview of married life, burr actually the best it’s going to get. It’s not going to get better once you’re married. Dating is when they’re on better behavior to try to win you over.
Why on earth would you sign up for this? It’s not your job to fix him. He needs to fix himself. Move on to someone who doesn’t require you to live on eggshells all the time.
anon
My husband struggles with depression. He has since before I married him. I won’t say DTMFA, but I would encourage you to really, really think about what you want your life to look like, and if that vision is possible with your boyfriend. My husband’s depression has led to challenges in our marriage, and in the 10 years we’ve been married, I’ve been on the brink of divorcing him twice. I love my husband, he has great qualities, he’s a great father, yada yada, but his depression definitely has meant that our life does not look the way I wanted it to 10 years ago.
Anonymous
Also, it only gets worse as they age. It never gets better.
Anon
Yeah everything you are saying is totally consistent with someone with serious depression and/or anxiety. And think about yourself – when you’re not feeling well or done, isn’t it easier to do things you like (like call your friends or scroll on your phone) than things you don’t (empty the dishwasher)? Multiply that by a zillion for how someone with depression or anxiety feels.
That said, it is okay if that’s not what you want for your life. Therapy for you is a good way to figure that out and set healthy boundaries.
Anon
He may or may not have depression, but he’s 100% an asshole.
Airplane.
You need to end this relationship. I bet if you do he will figure out how to cut up vegetables and feed himself.
Would you advise a friend who said this to you to stay with the guy?
“He can’t chop vegetables when asked or empty the dishwasher but will sit and read on his phone while I do all the work”
“When it’s time to pitch in — it’s about physical symptoms of depression.”
“He has taken anxiety meds two times in the last few years for a grand total of ONE DAY each.”
You don’t have to deal with this. You deserve someone who will do what is needed to be an equal partner and pitch in.
Anon
Breaking up won’t make him cut vegetables or empty the dishwasher. I have sadly worked community services for people with severe depression. Their bills go unpaid, stacked up on the counter or still in the mailbox. The dishes are all over the coffee table, maybe the sink. They eat takeout or junk food and not real meals. People who haven’t witnessed it or experienced it don’t realize how dysfunctional people can get. Especially right before they go in-patient.
OP doesn’t have to stay with her husband if this is something she won’t deal with. But saying leaving him will fix him is not at all accurate.
Anon
It won’t fix it for her husband… it’ll fix it for her. Whether her husband is a garden-variety man-baby or legit disabled by his illness, if he’s unwilling to get help, it’s not on her to be his servant/mom.
Anon
+1. People on this board consistently misunderstand depression and mental illness, don’t take steps to learn more and reduce the stigma they demonstrate, and it’s really frustrating and annoying.
Anon
These are the small extremes end of people with depresssion. The vast majority of people with depression manage to do the bare minimum to keep their job, eat, and keep their home running.
Airplane.
I’m not talking about fixing it for him. I’m talking about fixing it for her. She does not have to choose to live like this. I’m not misunderstanding depression. I know there are depressed people who wouldn’t be able to feed themselves but her husband doesn’t sound like that guy based on what she’s said here. She can decide that this is a dealbreaker for her.
Anonymous
Anon @2:09, have you ever actually lived with a person with a serious mental illness? Living with one is torture. Being married to one is even worse. It’s not about stigma, it’s about OP’s right to live her own life.
pugsnbourbon
I am really sorry you are going through this. My wife has experienced severe depression and it’s truly difficult for a marriage. It’s very promising that he’s getting help.
A few things to consider:
– check in on him less, unless he’s a danger to himself (which it doesn’t sound like)
– I know you shouldn’t have to remind an adult to do basic chores, but asking for small things to be done may help motivate him. Plus, completing small, concrete tasks can be beneficial to someone with depression.
– if time allows, get a therapist/telehealth for yourself. It’s important to have someone neutral to help you work through your own feelings.
– let some things go. This isn’t a normal time for either of you (or anyone, really) so if you eat mac and cheese for dinner a few nights in a row, so be it.
I hope things start looking up soon.
Anon
Based on your original post + your update, I’m concluding your husband could help you, but why should he because you’re doing it all. I would not be as optimistic as you are that he’s going to give the meds a real try this time.
In your shoes I’d make this the final try. If he can’t get it together and push through, then that’s it. You don’t have to be chained to this man for life. There’s an analogy here to addiction, which is also a disease. You acknowledge the disease, but you don’t enable the addict. You need to let him fail. To me that means separating from him and letting him either get his act together or live in his own filth.
You need your own therapist to help you work though this.
Trixie
As a person who struggles with depression, and has for 20 years, and is never off my Zoloft, I can tell you that a person who is depressed is dysfunctional. Said person might be able to do dishes, or cook, but sometimes I can only sleep, lie on the couch, and cry. if I get up and make myself do something, I am exhausted. I think he should start seeing a therapist right away, in or out of network, and keep trying to find the right meds. If he is not suicidal, stop checking on him–just let him be. I would try to have a conversation with him about chores and tasks–see what he would be willing and able to do. And of course, exercise and being outdoors helps. Hugs to you as I know this is hard. xoxo
Anon
He doesn’t have a right to a built in servant because he’s depressed, you know. What OP needs out of her relationship/cohabitation arrangement is also important.
Anon
I wish this were true, but my understanding is that if someone is ill enough to require household help, they only qualify for services if they don’t have a spouse at home. Spouses are expected to take this on for disabled people who are married.
Anon
Would your response be different if the spouse was suffering from severe pain from cancer and was unable to get off the couch? If yes, then you are stigmatizing mental illness.
Anon
Sure, if the cancer patient also refused to get help. Stop trying to legitimize this man baby.
Anon
Inability to get help is a symptom of depression. You’re literally getting angry at someone for being ill and displaying hallmark symptoms of their illness instead of actually offering any tips for OP. It’s really gross.
Airplane.
Sure, if he also refused to get help and spent the time he did feel well on his phone while I did all the housework. Cancer, depression, whatever, if you refuse treatment (or will only allow 1 single DAY of treatment) and expect me to do all the housework, I am out.
Anonymous
Anon @2:51, what’s really gross is that you are suggesting that OP should allow her life to be ruined by a person with a treatable illness who refuses to do anything about it. She has rights and needs too. Living with a spouse with an untreated mental illness is he11. It will eventually cause depression and/or anxiety in the spouse. Martyrdom is not a requirement of marriage.
will I ever go to a new place again?
How are we feeling about booking travel for summer 2021? I stumbled on cheap flights to somewhere my partner and I have been hoping to visit for a while now. Part of me thinks we should go ahead and book them. Part of me thinks we’d just be setting ourselves up for inevitable disappointment. Partner thinks we should book and cancel or reschedule if we need to.
If it’s helpful as context, neither of us are high-risk; we’re in the US and would be going to Canada, so there is currently a border restriction; flights would be with an airline who has waived change fees for tickets booked before December; and we’d be doing social-distance-friendly activities like camping and hiking when we got there.
If your comment is going to be “you’re horrible for even considering leaving your house in the next 12 months,” please save it.
Anonymous
I have travel booked for next summer to Europe and I think I will get to go. Mine was rescheduled from this year, couldn’t get a refund only reschedule. Ive you’re comfortable with the refund policy and how much money you stand to lose, go for it.
Anonymous
If I’m reading it right, change fees are waived for any flight in the future if you book before this Dec. — book it. Honestly I’d book it anyway, I think US and Canada will be fine for travel by next summer. There will be enough vax available that if you hustle/look for it (i.e. maybe your dr won’t have it but you can drive someplace else that has it) you’ll be able to get it before the summer. And even if you aren’t vaccinated, the type of activity you’re going for – camping – is something people are doing now with a raging pandemic.
And not to get political but if Biden wins the border to Canada and Europe is opening; I think other countries just want to see that we are taking actions to quell the pandemic. Maybe see if you can book in Nov? Though if it’s a great deal, I’d just do it now.
Cb
I hope your second statement is true. My parents bought a house in Portugal and haven’t been able to get there. They’d be happy to do the testing, quarantine, whatever necessary but right now they can’t enter the country.
Anon
My husband thinks that about Biden too, although I’m not so sure. I’m somewhat hopeful that even without a vaccine, travel will be more feasible as we are able to do more testing, especially rapid testing. Iceland opened this summer testing everyone on arrival and they wanted to allow Americans, but the EU didn’t let them because the other countries didn’t have that testing capacity. If everyone could test on arrival (or airlines could test on departure from home airport), I think way more borders would open.
Ness
It is not an EU policy, it is an agreement between the members of the Schengen area. The list is updated every two weeks, as soon as the US meets the requirements its citizens will be allowed to enter (Biden or not Biden). To begin with, the US now complies with the first point: reciprocity, countries that do not allow Schengen nationals to enter their territory are not on the list. This is the case of China, which meets all the other requirements (health ratios and ability to repatriate its people)
And these requirements are the minimum bar, on top, each country may require stricter requirements (but never less). Therefore, you have to check country by country in the Schengen area.
(The 26 Schengen countries are: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland.)
Anon
I wouldn’t count on flying, but would consider driving. We have a vacation planned that we will drive to (an all-outdoors vacation) and expect to probably cancel it, but I feel a lot more at ease knowing that we don’t have expensive plane tickets on the line and/or won’t be dealing with last-minute “oh hey travelers actually the flight is oversold after all so say goodbye to that distancing we talked about.”
Cat
I’ve flown in Covid times and found the airlines behaving responsibly (JetBlue and Southwest that is- not American).
Why not book it? Worst case is you end up with a flight credit (or- if it’s this far out, the odds that the airlines sufficiently mess with the schedule, thus entitling you to an actual cash refund rather than just credits).
We’ve booked several Covid-friendly Airbnb getaways for spring as a way to give us something to look forward to (hey, even if the east coast has a mild winter with bad snow for skiing, we’ll be chilling in our own hot tub in the mountains). Our #1 criteria was cancellation flexibility- anything more stringent than 100% refund until about a week out was a deal breaker.
Abby
I’d book it, especially if you can change it for free. I have booked tickets for 2021 with Delta – if we end up cancelling we receive a full credit to use in the future.
Anon
I expect to travel internationally next summer if the borders are open but I think that’s a big “if.” I already have a trip to Banff planned in October 2021 and am not that optimistic about it :/ That said, if you can deal with the emotions of canceling, I don’t think there’s any downside to booking. Everyone has flexible booking policies right now.
Anon
My husband and I are each flying to see different friends early next year. We have travel credits that have to be used or we lose the money. We have to book by the end of this year. We feel safer traveling early 2021 before everyone else starts traveling again as the plane and airport will probably be less crowded. We don’t plan on galivanting about town. Just staying with a friend and catching up. It’s not risk free but it is a risk we are comfortable taking. We can both work from home for two weeks after no issue.
The reality is, I may totally chicken out when the time comes and we lose the money. If we were going to lose the money either way, it is worth trying.
Anon
I’m thinking April/May 2021 might be the sweet spot – after cold and flu season, but before the crush of summer travel. I will definitely be flying domestically in 2021, I really don’t think it’s that big a risk particularly with the mask requirements.
Airplane.
Will you get over the disappointment if you have to cancel? I’m with your Partner on this. The anticipation and the gamble that it is a wonderful trip is worth the risk of cancelling for me. But travel is one of my top activities, I’m low risk and I don’t have any indoor contact with anyone outside my own household. You just have to decide if booking will cause you anxiety and misery until you actually get to go or if you can just let it go and be happy if it works out and say it’s a wash if you have to cancel and get credit/$ back.
Anonymous
Question for you wise ladies: what COVID safety measures would you ask of visitors who driving from CA to visit you in NY and “quarantining” on the way?
As background, we will be having a baby soon. Grandparents want to drive from CA to stay with us for a few weeks. One of them has medical procedures in CA every six weeks that can’t be delayed or done in NY, so to maximize time with us and the baby, they want to take 10 days to do the drive, “quarantining” on the way. They will then get an apartment in NY, get tested on arrival, and only come to stay with us after they get negative test results.
Flying is not an option. Asking them to do the 10 day drive and THEN do an extra 10 day quarantine in NY and then get tested will really cut down on their time with us. They are older and can’t drive many hours in the day, so asking them to shorten the drive and instead lengthen quarantine time in NY seems unwise.
They will do whatever we ask to make the trip safer, and I trust them to be honest with us about anything that happens. They are good about wearing masks, using hand sanitizer, etc.
So … what would you ask? That they only stay in certain hotels? Bring all their own food? Only stay in Airbnb’s where they rent the whole house, and bring their own sheets? Avoid hot spots en route? Would appreciate any thoughts.
(Please do not offer opinions on whether they should make the trip at all- there are medical conditions that do not make COVID a greater risk, but make a trip in the next few months very important. Delaying the trip by a year is not an option, given the medical condition and prognosis.)
Anonymous
California isn’t on the quarantine list so I would be fine with them driving out, wearing masks inside, and only eating outside along the way. They don’t need to bring their own sheets or food. You get Covid from the air not surfaces. As long as they wash their hands frequently a hotel is fine.
Please don’t call any of this quarantine though. It’s just too absurd.
Anon
My in laws drove back across the country from Florida this summer and they said they interacted with almost nobody on the way. Hotels were pretty sparsely populated and they got take out. I would imagine any chain hotels would have safety precautions in place but it’s worth looking into what they are since many chain hotels are actually parts of smaller groups.
Anonymous
When was this? My sense is things have gotten busier though maybe it’s quieting down again as some version of school/hybrid school has restarted. Honestly I’d be sure to pick big chain hotels along the way — probably Marriott/Hilton — and know what they are doing specifically with protocols. I believe for Hilton (and I assume Marriott too) you don’t have to interact with people — check in by phone, unlock the door with an app on your phone.
So I imagine you walk into a suburban Hilton Garden Inn — the type where people stay for one night when they have a wedding in town or their HVAC broke down in 110 degree weather but they are locals — but otherwise it’s an empty hotel, you breeze into your room, stay there (don’t walk around the hotel getting ice or visiting the lobby) and then in the morning you take off. Frankly I’d even call hotels every hotel along the way to see if they had a ground floor room (many do though many don’t) + do they have a room that’s been cleaned but not used in a few days (hotels were doing that initially). They should try to avoid elevators (despite being masked) but if they can’t – get low floor rooms so elevator trips are short, and only have them get into elevators alone and be “aggressive” about asking people to take the next one (or offering that they take this one and your parents wait for the next).
cbackson
I recently had to do a long two-day drive. We stayed overnight at Hampton Inn and had zero interaction with other humans during the entire process. We didn’t even see another person except from across the parking lot. The room had a sticker seal on it stating that it had been cleaned and then left vacant for 24 hours.
Anon
My sister did the same on a short road trip for family reasons. Hampton Inns all the way due to their cleanliness standards. All drive through or takeout food. They found clean restrooms at McDonalds.
It has been a month since and they fortunately did not get sick.
Anon
I would ask them to quarantine for 3-4 days or not at all if they get a negative test result and can reasonably report low-risk interactions along the way.
Anon
Also, are you sure you don’t want to fly to them when the baby is a few months old?
Anonymous
Definitely would ask them not to eat in restaurants–whether that’s bringing their own food or only doing drive thru is up to them. The thought of 9-10 different hotels in states w/ NY travel restrictions is also a big concern. I guess I’d feel moderately better if they stayed in an AirBnB. Definitely avoid hot spots en route if at all possible. No stopping for touristy side trips, unless you’re staying in the car.
Anonymous
Honestly, I vote for hotels (big hotel chains tend to enforce their standards; start at the Marriott level if budget permits) vs AirBNBs (hosts can be sketchy, we had one that they had “forgotten” to clean and there was pet hair everywhere, which I’m allergic to). Absent beach rentals (which tend to run like clockwork in-season at least), I won’t stay at an AirBNB now. The hotel can move you to another room if something is amiss and can get cleaners right away if something is wrong. AirBNB is not nimble at fixing actual problems. I think you want a lower margin of error, so my vote is for a hotel; a suite if you want something likely empty before you got there.
Anon
+1 to having more trust in big hotel chains at the moment right now – they have much more to lose by not enforcing standards. I have had too many AirBNB experiences where the hosts lied/misrepresented things (never anything major but enough that I certainly wouldn’t trust them to have cleaning standards that are tough to “spot check”)
Cat
Staying 1 night at a time in Airbnb’s is a pain – both because of minimum stay requirements and because it typically takes more coordination to check in (vs. a typical interstate hotel with a 24 hour reception).
I would feel fine with them staying in their hotel chain of choice, but would ask that they keep time indoors with others to a minimum (so- replenish groceries along the way in a masked grocery run? Masked stop at a rest station for bathrooms and takeout? Sure. Indoor dining rather than takeout (whether taken back to hotel room or eaten in their car rather than the fast food place?) No.)
Anon
Here’s the biggest problem: they are not quarantining during their drive. No one quarantines during a drive – that’s literally the opposite of a quarantine. They can reduce their risk along the way; they are not quarantining.
It’s a 2,700 mile, 40 hour drive, give or take. If they shorten that up to about six hours of driving a day, they can get it done in seven days instead of ten, using the other three to quarantine.
Would a train be an option?
Anonymous
Ugh no with the trains. That is eating 3 take-in meals a day with no way to carry your own food and shared air 24/7. Might as well ride the dog.
Anon
I would think a train is higher risk than flying.
Anon
+1000
Anonymous
I’d go to them and require them to quarantine for real in advance.
Anon
Also in NY and expecting a baby soon. My parents are driving up from NC – they’ll quarantine for 14 days in NC before they make the trip (as in, home 24/7 except for walking the dog masked and interacting with no one, all groceries delivered with zero contact), and then they’ll do the drive in 1 day. If they lived in California, they would have rented an RV to make the drive so that they wouldn’t have exposure en route (and this is actually what they’ll be doing early next year to visit my brother & family in California).
So to answer your question – I’d ask them to rent an RV and do the drive that way, which means they can skip hotels/grocery stores/restaurants/rest stops altogether. Am I paranoid/overreacting? Maybe. But I own that.
AnonATL
We have a 2 month old with in laws in MN planning to drive here to GA. Our expectation Is they are extremely cautious beforehand. Only necessary trips masked, And by that I mean groceries and doctors appointments.
They will be driving here which takes 2 days, staying in 1 night in a national chain hotel along the way and drive through food only. My kid met local family fresh home from the hospital, but they were low risk and doing the same low exposure activities we were, which was basically just grocery store.
How old will your baby be when they come visit? Seems like most pediatricians say after the big round of shots at 2 months, the risk is much smaller. I realize asking them to wait that long may not be worth it, and I didn’t expect it of our family who was willing to behave responsibly.
I think most of your precautions sound more than reasonable.Stay in a decent chain hotel, avoid any major hotspots, takeout only along the way. I would caution that a negative test doesn’t necessarily mean they didn’t pick it up along the drive, but that risk seems small too.
anon
I would consider having them fly instead if they are open to it, and quarantine for 4-5 days (or get a negative test) when they get to NY. A 10 day drive probably has more contact points than one flight, and they could wear masks the entire flight (if they opt not to eat/drink). I have flown several times during COVID and felt safe, although Delta was much better than United.
Anonymous
They can’t quarantine while driving cross country. That’s not how quarantine works. I’m not saying don’t do it, but don’t kid yourself that they’re “quarantining” when obviously they’re not.
Does your doctor have any advice on this? I would talk to her about timing and precautions for the trip.
NYNY
I did something quite similar when my mother was dying in the spring. We drove cross-country, wore masks any time we left the car, hand sanitized all the time, only ate what we brought and what we got a drive-thrus (no in-person dining at all), and had a whole protocol of sanitizing surfaces in the chain hotels we stayed in along the way and bringing our own sheets. Knowing what we do now, I might not do the sheets thing, but would be very aware of how empty or full the hotel was. At the time we traveled, hotels were really empty, but that may be less true now.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with your parent’s health issue and poor prognosis in the middle of all this. It is so so hard.
NYNY
Also, big gas station bathrooms along the highway were universally well-cleaned. I felt very safe in them in my mask and washing my hands after use, then hand sanitizing when I got back in the car to get anything I had to touch on the way out.
Anonymous
OP here- thanks so much for your kind response. The combination of COVID and the prognosis has made 2020 very hard, and we are all doing our best to make this trip work.
Assoc.
From someone who moved across the country (DMV to PNW) this summer:
TIMING: we planned for a 14 day trip but it only took 10. Our longest day of driving was our last day and that was 8 hours. If we had done some longer days in the beginning, it would have been a shorter trip.
HOTELS:
– Bigger name chain hotels are doing a good job about cleaning and distancing;
– Bring your own pillow cases and sheets & change the pillow cases & sheets as soon as you get into the hotel room, then wipe down everything (handles, remote, light switches, etc.);
– When at the hotel, don’t get in the elevator with other individuals, use keys to press buttons, always wear a mask in common areas;
FOOD:
– Get pick-up or drive through and eat in the car (obviously have hand sanitizer on hand);
– alternatively, get non-perishable snacks before leaving (cashews/other nuts, dry cereal, dried fruit, other hiking type snacks, a loaf of bread, a jar of PB & a jar of jelly, powerade/gatorade/iced tea/water bottles) for eating on the road;
– get delivery to the hotel or pick up for dinner (most hotels are not allowing delivery people to go directly to rooms so be aware);
– a lot of the “free breakfast” amenities at hotels are still available, but they are bagged by the hotel workers and set out to grab in the A.M. or to be given to you when you check out (think brown sack bag with a banana, granola bar, small bottle of water inside);
REST STOPS/PIT STOPS:
– most truck stops (Love’s, Pilot, etc.) are still open and have open restrooms that are cleaned regularly (but obviously try to touch as little as possible), most information centers and rest stops have bathrooms open but nothing else (like the little gift shops, etc.);
GENERAL:
– we moved from East to West and the further west we got (this was in July), the less we saw masks and social distancing.
– If they are low on hand wipes, hand sanitizer, etc., pack a spray bottle of cleaning solution and some rolls of paper towels, store them directly behind the driver’s seat so the passenger can easily and readily grab them to wipe down chip bags, hands if there is no sanitizer, whatever upon re-entering the vehicle.
Anon
has anyone had or know someone who has had a shoulder replacement? my father has to have one, not necessarily right now, but is thinking of doing it this winter since he can’t really go anywhere anyway. the challenge though is i live across the country with two toddlers, and my mother passed away last year, so i am trying to figure out what kind of help he will need since i likely won’t be able to be there (which i also feel terribly guilty about).
Anonymous
I haven’t personally, but I’ve had family members who have. It’s a surprisingly rough surgery and recovery. I’d recommend a recliner if he doesn’t already have one (preferably one with a lift if he’s older) — he’ll sleep in it for weeks most likely.
givemyregards
My dad had one, and as anon 10:47 mentions, it’s a rough recovery; rougher than hip replacement, counter-intuitively. I’d second the suggestion about a recliner to sleep in and just generally make sure he has a lot of easy meals/take out/etc. for a few weeks because he’s not going to want to be doing anything more complicated than microwaving in the kitchen and if he’s like my dad he’ll be pretty stoned for a few weeks on pain killers.
Anon
My mother-in-law had a shoulder replacement. Her recovery was not great, limited range of motion and she complained of continuing pain, which would have been true regardless of what the procedure was or if she had surgery at all.
Coach Laura
Both my father and my MIL have had both shoulders done. I would suggest that he stay 2-3 nights in a rehab place after being discharged from the hospital, then get a visiting paranurse (they are CNAs/assistants, not RNs or LPNs) in a few hours a day, like 4-7pm to load/run/unload the dishwasher, help them bathe, change sheets on bed, empty trash, put away grocery delivery. My daughter did this before nursing school and these “activities of daily living” may be covered by insurance or medicare. If he won’t get a visiting nurse in, have a neighbor kid or adult do the bare minimum of kitchen trash, throwing away takeout containers and putting away food.
He might want to make sure he has easy-on, easy-off shirts and sweatpants and no-tie slippers or shoes, since dressing will be hard.
He should keep his cell phone charged up and in his pocket or on a lanyard. Or get one of the “I’ve fallen and I can’t get up” buttons. My grandparent fell and was on the floor for 12 hours and her quality of life went down after that. A broken hip is not what he needs.
Organize meal train with friends/family if you can, otherwise maybe see if he wants meals delivered by one of the premade meal services or if he wants to order takeout.
Senior Attorney
My mom had one after a fall in her early 80s and never really recovered because she didn’t do her rehab exercises. It’s no fun but vitally important. She lived to 95 and couldn’t raise her arm above her shoulder for years.
Anon
This isn’t my original idea, of course, but I think a big part of the issue in politics these days is that neither party has reined in their fringes. On the right, we have white supremacists and gun wackos and everyone who goes along with that and on the left, we have “abolish the police” radicals who seem to care about important issues, but who will cancel you and write you off as a traitor if you ever disagree. I wish we had a multi-party system where the fringes could find their homes in obscure parties and let the adults do the work in the main parties. As it is now, the main parties have to kowtow to their respective wackos and it isn’t working for any of us.
Anonymous
With the caveat that I object to your both-sidesism, (the “fringe” of the right is now just the Republican Party) I think, if our democracy survives to the next election, you’ll have your wish. What you’re seeing now is a push from decent people to preserve the republic. But no, Bloomberg and AOC don’t belong in the same party and I expect a fracture of the Democratic Party if/when the Republican Party can recommit to the basics of American democracy. Never trumpers and moderate dems could probably compile a coherent platform together with a far right and far left party on either side.
S-non
Agreed. I think the Republican Party has become the “fringe” and the cult of Trump, but either way white supremacists and gun wackos =/= abolish the police and I hope we can agree that the actions of one are worse than the actions of another. Esp when party leadership on one side sponsors it.
Anon
On the left here, and the left cancel fringe bothers me too, but take heart. They don’t vote. They post things on their Instagram and Twitter and call it political activism.
I try to remain optimistic that there are enough of us who do vote to win the election.
Anon
A big part of this is the lack of a good farm team. Joe Biden should have been a zero-term or one-term US Senator. He first won (by a few thousand votes) because no one else was good in the first election. Subsequently, he won because his party didn’t see the need to get rid of him and there were not young, talented politicians able to take him on in the primaries or general.
It’s like Roy Moore down in Alabama – is that really the best they’ve got??? McSally in Arizona and McGrath in Kentucky are just lousy campaigners – I’m shocked that people who ought to know how to run a campaign have not taken over the helm and done a better job steering those ships.
Obviously, the parties didn’t do the hard work of recruiting outstanding local candidates who would move up the ladder, then done the hard work of teaching their people who to campaign.
When you have great candidates and incumbents, it’s harder for the radicals to take over.
Anon
I agree with a lot of this. I’m so moderate that I hate both fringes and moderates don’t get any/much airtime. Put me in the never Bernie/socialist/AOC camp and the never Trump camp. I have hopes that the right-wing wackos and the abolish the police wackos will burn themselves out after November 3 and peace will reign. But I’m probably delusional.
theguvnah
funny how your “both sides” approach somehow pretends that literal nazis and white supremacists are equivalent to people who want to reinvest police funding into community needs.
Anne-ymouse
For me personally I don’t think literal nazis and white supremacists are equivalent to people who want police reinvestment but I do think nazis and people who are throwing firebombs at federal agents and who trying to impose socialism are equivalent. They are both fringe views. Rioting is not a peaceful protest in my book, and riots are just as bad as neo-nazis marching and killing people in Charlottesville.
anon
Do American schools not cover socialism. Socialism is NOT a fringe idea. Almost all of Europe is social democracies.
Anne-ymouse
Speaking for myself, I don’t want to live in a socialist democracy. Yes, I learned about socialism in school. I’ve also spent months in Sweden and Denmark and if I wanted to live in a socialist democracy I’d move there. I don’t. Bernie is an avowed socialist. I don’t want to vote for a socialist and to me Biden has made a necessary alliance with Bernie, making the democratic policy platform much too close to socialism for me.
Clementine
Has anyone else noticed that their ‘Young Republican’ friends who are publicly supporting a candidate seem to be going towards Jo Jorgenson, the Libertarian candidate?
(I have a handful of Trump-ers I see, but I would say a solid 60% of my ‘Republican’ friends are all about Jo. I know that for at least a few of them, they liked the economic results of a Trump administration but were absolutely horrified by the outright racism and things like mocking a disabled reporter or disparaging a gold star family.)
Anon
They’re not that horrified if they’re throwing their votes away on a third-party candidate. Truly, they’re not.
Anonymous
Yes this. They’re bad people with bad values.
Anon
If they live in any one of about 40 states, they are not throwing their votes away: the state is not in play. The benefit to voting third-party is that the 5% threshold for getting public funding the next election cycle is based on national voting, not state voting. Residents of California, Alabama, Massachusetts, Illinois, and South Dakota can vote libertarian to their hearts’ content, knowing that it won’t change the outcome of the election but it will help their candidate clear the all-important 5% threshold.
Anon
I agree with this. I’d like to see an end to the two party system, even though I’m a democrat. I’m in a swing state so I care if people vote third party. I don’t care if people in non-swing states vote third party.
Clementine
Because it’s relevant, I will note that none of these people live in swing states. I think I would have a harsher opinion of them (I already think they’re selfish, sheltered, dumbasses, so there’s that) if they lived in a state that was anything but deep, DEEP blue.
And yeah, I hear the argument that they’re still monsters. That’s cool. These are social media ‘friends’ (note I went on FB for the first time in a month out of curiosity last night) and people like my cousin’s boyfriend. Frankly, my bigger issue is that we need to abolish the electoral college because it’s a sham.
Anonymous
I mean, that’s not a great argument. If you don’t like trump, but don’t feel like voting Biden, you’re basically counting on others to vote blue for you. And vice versa. It’s a cowardly cop out and it doesn’t hold up when universalized.
Anon
Not really, if you live in a state that’s not in play your vote doesn’t really matter either. I live in NY, I’ll still vote Biden but I’m still counting on others to vote blue for me because NY is not in play and hasn’t been for decades. It’s unfortunate that this is how our political system is set up where something like 50,000 voters in select areas will decide who the president is but it is what it is and it’s not ridiculous for someone who knows their state is solidly red or solidly blue to want to vote third party to get them to the 5% threshold which is not tested on a state by state basis but a national one (so their vote actually matters if they vote third party)
Anonymous
Nah bro this is nonsense. If they aren’t voting to get Trump out they don’t care about women or minorities. That’s racist and sexist. I don’t need multiple friends who value being rich more than decency.
Anonymous
Um, see the above comment. If you are in a reliably blue or red state, it doesn’t matter. Vote your conscience. It only possibly matters in purple states and any state with propoprtional voting. SD’s 3 electoral college votes are not going to change. Math. Do the math.
Anon
Not OP, but I don’t care if their vote “doesn’t count.” That wasn’t what this was about. I care about not being friends with assholes who can’t even make a symbolic gesture to vote for the candidate who may be able to send a sexist, racist, rapist, demented sack of sh*t packing. If I heard a friend was voting for Kanye or another third-party candidate this year as a protest, we would no longer be friends. I have never said that in any prior election. This one is different.
Anon
That doesn’t actually make you a good person.
Anon
If she’s not a “good person” then I’m right there with her. I don’t want to be friends with anyone who doesn’t do everything in their power to get a president who called out to a white supremacist group to “stand by” out of office. This is literally life or death.
Anonymous
@ Anon12:23
Actually it does make her a good person.
Failing to actively participate in getting rid of DT makes someone not a good person.
Biden isn’t perfect by a long shot but DT literally just told white suprememists to ‘stand by’ – that’s how far we have fallen as a country. Biden needs to win both the electoral college and the popular vote by a wide margin or there is a very real liklihood that DT will try not to concede. It doesn’t matter how close a state is or how ‘safe’ it is or is not. Every vote is needed.
Vote third party if you want another year, but not this time. There is no long game on increasing third party support right now, there is voting to protect democracy and our democratic institutions. That’s it.
Anon
But voting for another candidate is also a symbolic gesture, if neither vote makes any difference in the outcome of the election?
Anon
That is not what he said about the white supremacist group, but lie to yourself if it makes you feel better.
Anon
A lot of “reliably red” states are so much less reliable this year because of Trump. He’s polling only one point ahead of Biden in Alaska for heaven’s sake!
Anon
Yep. Voting for third-party this year keeps red states redder.
Anon
It would matter if everyone thought this way though. The point is that they’re relying on others to do the right thing and keep the state reliably blue and that’s gross.
Anon
They can also flip individual districts, which is just annoying.
theguvnah
not true, the narrative of the popular vote, especially in our quest to get rid of the racist and ill-formed electoral college – absolutely matters. Third party voters at this point are selfish at best and have an over-inflated sense of their own importance.
Anonymous
I don’t understand why you would be upset, their vote is not a vote for Trump, which is great.
Belgard patio
Has anyone had a Belgard patio installed and can comment on the cost? We are in a VLCOL area and got a quote of $21,000 for an 18 x 22 patio with a fire pit. The site will require stripping sod and slight grading, nothing else. That seems pretty high to us but perhaps our expectations weren’t realistic?
Flats Only
You might be getting a high quote because home improvement services are in HUGE demand this summer, especially outdoor upgrades. So last year, or perhaps next year, the same patio would have been cheaper. Right now labor and materials are at a premium.
Belgard patio
Good point. While I did know that to be true, I don’t think I had truly factored that into my reaction to the quote, so thank you for pointing it out!
Anon
Are these the pavers? I think mine is Belgard too. The cost sounds about right. I think I paid more because I had a French drain installed too. The grading is important for drainage.
I really love my patio and I’m so glad we did it.
Anonymous
I had a similar patio put in 15 (!!!) years ago without the fire pit and it was about 10K. Jackhammering of old patio, grading, building up layers of gravel and sand, building two steps and a window well (dry stacked stone); steps and patio were Belgard pavers and a slight ledge due to yard slope. It took 5 days of several men laboring and lining up things with strings and I appreciated the precision on all of that b/c I have not touched it myself at all and that is rare with a house. The $ sounds about right for passage of time.
My neighbors put in a Belgard semi-circular driveway and second driveway back to their garage and all I can think is that they must be shockingly rich. It’s a great product, but not inexpensive.
Belgard patio
Thank you. That’s helpful to know.
Anonymous
We are in a $$$ Boston suburb. We did a 730 Sq ft patio this summer. We priced out bluestone and manufactured options (I think technically our quote was Armstrong but they are comparable in price). Bluestone bids came to $23-$30sq ft installed and the manufactured was $18-24Sq ft installed.
When we talked about fire pits it was ~$400.
Based on our quotes, yours does sound high. But there is a pretty big range out there so get a couple more quotes.
For ours they had to do some leveling and sod removal- standard patio stuff.
Anonymous
Oops, I was wrong. Our quotes were bluestone, Belgard and Cambridge. Belgard was $25/sq ft installed.
Belgard patio
Thank you. DH wanted to get a quote and get going ASAP, but I think we are going to shop around a bit instead.
Anonymous
I get at least 3 quotes for any home improvement project over about $200. It is always worth the effort.
Frivolous Ask
Can anyone recommend the best tooth whitening kit or product? Obviously Crest whitestrips are out there, but is one set better than others? I’ve got some significant coffee stains, but am looking for one that won’t cause sensitivity.
Clementine
Ask your Dentist! I get one from my dentist that gives me better results than whitestrips. It’s refrigerated until you use it and only costs me $40 for a box.
I just checked and the brand is Sheer White but like I said – these can only be purchased through my Dentist.
Anon
I do the same. Trays from the dentist, so a one time cost, and then tubes of whitener once in a while. (Maybe every other cleaning visit.)
I tend to wear them while we watch a movie.
Anon
My dentist recommends the Crest ones. They caused only mild sensitivity for me.
Anon
After reading lost of encouraging posts here, I contacted my PCP, told her I was depressed, and asked for a prescription for an antidepressant that I had been on before. She called in a months prescription but told me that I have to see a psychiatrist for more. Which is fine, but there literally are 0 who take my insurance on zocdoc and I’m having trouble navigating the insurance site — it’s giving me lots of substance abuse treatment centers. Has anyone had this kind of experience? Words of advice or encouragement?
Anon
Do you have a gynecologist who may be more willing to take over refills?
pugsnbourbon
Your PCP is … doing this wrong. It’s unlikely that you’ll see the full benefits of the meds until the 6-week mark. When I’ve gotten scripts from my PCP, she does two months and then schedules a follow-up visit. Honestly I’d fine a new doc over this, or have my gyno manage the script like Anon at 12:04 said.
Alternatively – my wife’s meds are pretty complex and she sees a certified psychiatric nurse whose practice is entirely med management. She doesn’t take insurance, but once they worked out the right combo, they only meet quarterly for a 1/2 hour, and it’s affordable.
Coach Laura
Echoing Pugsnbourbon – try a PMHNP – that is a Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner. They are Registered Nurses with Master’s degrees that in many states have the same prescribing authority as psychiatrists/MDs. (Old title was Clinical Psychiatric Nurse – PMHNP is the new license title, but some are grandfathered in.) They are much cheaper and easier to find. Even ones that don’t have state prescribing authority are able to link with an MD to get the scripts approved. (About 35 states do have independent practice NPs.) They may or may not provide counseling but will work with a therapist to get the right dosage. Obviously, a psychiatrist might be better but if you can’t find one, a PHMHP would be a good option.
pugsnbourbon
Thank you for adding the correct title! Yes, my wife sees a PMHNP who has done a world of good.
Anonymous
Yes- I actually called my insurance company for a list. It was annoying but worth it.
Anonymous
Ask her for a recommendation? If she’s pushing you out to a psychiatrist, she should at least have a list of suggested physicians where she can refer you.
Anon
I had to find a psychiatrist for my teen son and it was really awful so I feel for you. So many on my insurance company list didn’t even bother to call me back.
Finally I was complaining about it at work, and one of my coworkers pulled me aside and said he had a psychiatrist he liked, and did I want him to see if he would take my son? I was overjoyed. I was there when he made the call, and it was really a matter of being nice to the receptionist.
So my suggestion is to ask your friends. Sometimes I think that is the only way.
Anon
My insurance company deliberately produces lists of “in-network providers” that are limited to the cheapest ones, and that omit many providers who are also in-network but who may cost the insurance company more. So you may need to start calling around to find out who takes your insurance, if your insurance company doesn’t want to tell you.
Aunt Jamesina
Does your workplace have an EAP? I’d start there if so. And let your doctor know of your dilemma if you can.
Anon
Psychology Today has a “Find a Therapist” function where you can narrow it down by type (Psychiatrist is one of the type options) and by insurance that they take.
You can also find a new PCP or Gyno that will manage this for you – I’ve never had to see a psychiatrist for a straight forward depression treatment.
Anon
I’m the poster above about my teen son. We also tried this route with zero success, I’m sorry to say. Not one return call in 10+ inquiries.
Anon
It is sometimes hard to find an in-network psych, but I’d suggest using out-of-network and if you find one you like, they often don’t need to see you very frequently. I switched from one out of network psych for my autistic son to a different one, whose initial fee was much higher, but he sees my son much less frequently, so he’s actually cheaper (and better).
If the psych needs to see you only once every 6 months, you might find out of network is affordable or worth it.
Anonymous
Find a new PCP who doesn’t stigmatize mental health. She should be able to give you a low dose antidepressant. Personally, I’m not going to see a psychiatrist for the rest of my life because I have a slight brain chemical imbalance that is 100% controlled with a low dose medicine.
Anon
Speak with your PCP and explain the situation NOW so that it doesn’t become a crisis. If he or she is recommending this course, then he or she should help you navigate it or be fully responsible for your care. That includes being the prescribing Rx if you end up seeing a psychologist, not a psychiatrists, because none are available.
Separately, call your insurance plan and ask for recommendations too, so that you can not rely on zocdoc only.
Sloan Sabbith
Check your local academic hospitals. I see a psychiatrist with the local hospital network and it was easier to get in to see her than to try to find someone on my own.
OP
Thank you everyone, I’ll look into some of the suggestions. I told my PCP that it’s hard to find a psychiatrist who takes my insurance and she said that understood but she wants me to get a fuller evaluation to make sure this is the right medication and dose for me (I asked for what I was on previously, years ago). She has a point but I also have a point, which is that my depression is making it much harder to find a psychiatrist.
Anonymous
Sorry, this is garbage. I have been treating my depression with a GP for 20+ years. The only time I saw a psychiatrist was when I was involuntarily committed prior to the 20 years of steady management. And let me tell you how useless that psychiatrist was. It was a two minute appt and fewer questions than any of my GPs have ever asked.
Coffee
Does anyone have the Keurig K-Mini? Reviews are ok not great. I just don’t want another huge bulky appliance for this occasional/max one cup coffee drinker.
Anon
If you want an occasional cup, would an Aeropress work? It’s very small and makes great coffee.
Anonymous
I think I have this. No reservoir – have to pour in the water every time. I like it. I’ve had it about 4 plus years and it’s been great. Occasionally I’ll have to use my sonic toothbrush to clean the needle and area around it if it gets plugged up and run some vinegar through it but it’s been fine.
Anon
I would get a Chemex. It’s much more environmentally friendly and attractive/not bulky. They also make great-tasting coffee. Keurigs are bad for the environment and the coffee never even tastes good.
Anon
Nespresso is a better option. Tastier, capsules can be recycled, much smaller footprint.
Anonymous
I have this and like it better than the bigger one. It’s simple to use and less likely to break (unlike the THREE keurigs I bought and had to immediately return bc of malfunction).
Anon
I would get a single cup pour over thingy and some #2 filters (every supermarket has them). I have the ceramic one from muji. It’s not bad for the environment, makes good coffee, and never breaks. I use mine every morning and sometimes for a second cup later in the day. I’ll post a link to mine in a second comment, so look for it later if it’s in mod.
Anon
This is what I have: https://www.muji.us/store/beige-porcelain-coffee-dripper-4550002797188.html
Any similar product should work equally well.
Anonymous
+1 for single-cup pour-over. I’ve had a plastic one from Melitta since college and it is awesome.
ATL
I have one! I have the reusable k cup thing too so no waste. I like it!! I only drink a cup at home on the weekend and have a tiny kitchen so it works perfectly for me. Cleaning it is kind of a pain but it’s fine.
Chi Botox
Recommendations on where to get Botox in Chi? Have some minor crows feet, interested in preventative treatment to other areas.