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Updated: Dec 31, 2020 450 Comments · by

Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Daniella Printed Blouse

The Personal Shopper (TPS)· Wear to Work

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

Sometimes you just need a pretty blouse to get you excited about leaving the house in the morning. Or, maybe you need a pretty blouse to get you excited about not leaving the house in the morning.

Either way, this top would be beautiful in person or via Zoom. It has an interested double-breasted-looking button arrangement in the front that I think would avoid some of the awkward gapping that can happen with button-down blouses. I like the idea of pairing it with a crisp, white pair of pants or skirt, but if that’s just not practical for your life, I would wear it tucked into a black pencil skirt.

The blouse is $245 and available in sizes 0–12. Daniella Printed Blouse

Veronica Beard has a more affordable option that's on sale for $140 (from $350) at Nordstrom; Michael Michael Kors has a plus-size alternative at Zappos that's on sale for $56 (from $94). 

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Sales of note for 9.19.24

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Boden – 15% off new styles
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
  • J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
  • J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
  • Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
  • Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
  • Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
  • Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
  • White House Black Market – 40% off select styles

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Yikes

    The dubious honor of an early post and immediate threadjack! Biglaw senior still WFH for the foreseeable future, work is insanely busy and I will end up with well over 300 hours this month. No end in sight. I have always had what is likely low-grade anxiety and depression that bubbles up in times of stress, but I can ultimately keep working through it. Now I am having weekly panic attacks and genuinely feel relief at the idea of jumping off a roof. Not that I think I would do it, but I feel better knowing it is an option. Obviously I need therapy, I’m exploring it. There’s not a question embedded in here I guess, just needed a safe space to let it out.

    • Anon

      You should reach out to your PCP today to see if you can start some medication. Also, here is the suicide prevention hotline to chat online or call and talk to someone who will listen today before you find your actual therapist. 1-800-273-8255. I’ll post the web link in a reply to avoid mod.

      Consider taking a few sick days from work. No one needs to know that it was for mental health and not physical health. If you had a heart attack, someone would have to cover for you. The thoughts you are experiencing are a medical emergency too. I’m glad you posted here today and I care!

    • Airplane.

      Don’t white knuckle it through life – talk to a doctore as soon as possible to get some relief. You deserve better than weekly panic attacks and ideation.

    • Anonymous

      The only end in sight is the one you demand. You’re contemplating suicide. Today is not a day for exploring therapy it’s a day for an urgent appointment with any doctor and taking leave. You can’t have any career if you aren’t here!

      • Struggle Bus

        +1 I took FMLA from the finance equivalent of big law and it was seriously the best decision I ever made. Talk to your doctor today.

      • Struggle Bus

        +1 I took FMLA leave from investment banking for mental health reasons. It was the hardest decision I ever made (honestly made sorta impulsively at my breaking point) but ended up being the best decision ever. I took 6 weeks.

    • Anonymous

      I’m so sorry, I’ve been there. Hugs and commiseration. Medication really does help.

    • anon

      I am so sorry to hear you are going through this. Getting a therapist is much harder than it should be (in my experience) but once you have the relationship it is invaluable — don’t give up!

      I also agree that you should see your PCP (via Tele Health) who can help with medication or a referral to a psychiatrist. You can be very upfront with any side effects you’re worried about and ask to avoid medications with those side effects.

      I also endorse taking a few days (or ideally a week) off from work and taking your work email off your phone. I agree that you can just say you are having a health emergency and will need to be out until X date. No additional detail is needed.

      This is temporary and you will get through it. Sending you all my good thoughts.

    • Jess

      I’d suggest reaching out to your PCP ASAP and getting a beta blocker for the racing heart symptoms of panic attacks and a low dose Xanax for the panic attacks (a low enough dose that it would work for test anxiety and not impair performance).

      You absolutely shouldn’t have to white knuckle through this. If there’s anything you can do to make your work set-up or home life better, do it immediately. Hire a cleaner, housekeeper, whatever it takes for you to get through this horrible period.

      Also, get advice from other senior attorneys about how to decrease your workload either by delegating or telling someone this pace is unsustainable and asking to be staffed on fewer projects.

    • Anonymous

      I won’t repeat all of the good advice you received for what you need to do today — please don’t suffer through.

      When you are feeling better, also please don’t ignore the impact your current job is having on your health and re-evaluate if it’s the right fit for you. I’ve been in the situation you are currently facing — no end in sight of a crushing workload and thinking it would be better to get deathly ill, so I could have a break. Please don’t live like I did. Work is not worth it. There are lots of people out there looking for work, including people your firm could hire so you don’t have to work 300 hours a month. If your partners know how hard you are working and don’t do anything to change it, take that information as them showing you who they are and what they value. I was a big 4 partner for 10+ years.

    • Marie

      Echoing everyone else’s concerns about how this is unsustainable and not how you want to be living your life, as well as advice to seek help and give yourself a break. Often when we ignore the signs to slow down, our bodies make the decisions for us and put us out of commission. Your body and mind are currently signaling to you that something is wrong (panic attacks and thoughts of how to escape these feelings). Do not ignore them. I agree with the suggestions to e-mail the partners that you are ill and unable to work (which is true) and to take some days for yourself to seek help and take a break.

      I am glad you reached out here and will be sending you warm thoughts throughout the day. If you have a close friend or family member you can contact or spend time with, I would encourage them to share your feelings about work. I have been in a job with unsustainable hours and pressure and I felt a weird sense of shame/embarrassment to tell those closest to me that I was unraveling. It can be very isolating and it is important to remember that work is just one aspect of life, not your entire life. I eventually opened up to my people, and they did not think less of me (this idea was all in my head), and instead, supported me.

    • CP

      +1 for medication. Chronic anxiety/depression here with suicidal ideation around PMS time and an SSRI has dramatically improved my quality of life. I was resistant to being “dependent” on something, but it’s truly life changing.

    • Ses

      People have posted some great guidance. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.
      I just want to say – if you get relief from the idea of escaping the stress and work, is there a way to redirect your mind into the idea of quitting your job to get that relief? Sometimes I get very spun up about work things, and just thinking of concrete “What would happen if I quit my job?” scenarios can provide relief. You can think through what you’d say, how you’d tell your clients, what your reason would be, where and how you would take your career break, what budget changes you’d make to make it sustainable. It’s helpful to know there are real and healthy ways out.

    • Anon

      OP, depending on your location, I have a therapist I adored in NYC and have one I really like in DC right now. I can make an email to pass along to you if you want. Many hugs to you.

      • Anonymous

        San Francisco here, also very happy with my therapist (suggested on this board) and happy to pass along if you’d like.

        (Anon 12:55 thanks for thinking of this)

      • Anonymous

        May be late but I have daughter who is looking for great therapist in NYC. Can you tell me your persons name?

  2. DC escape

    Anyone have a specific cabin or VRBO or other getaway suggestion within three hours of DC? We can be pretty flexible on dates so hope we can find something somewhere, but the options are overwhelming and so much is already booked up for the summer

    • DC liver

      This was just shared in my DC neighborhood listserv:

      VACATION RENTAL AVAILABLE JULY & AUGUST
      These are two new properties just listed so plenty of Availability
      Both are 3 br/2 bath located in North Dewey, Rehoboth by the Sea

      Sweet Cottages
      Today through Friday discounted to $390 night

      Rest of summer $3,850 week plus tax and cleaning, Dog Friendly w/additional pet fee

      LINKS FOR PHOTOS AND INFO

      http://www.vrbo.com/2005645

      http://www.vrbo.com/2003849

      Contact
      Marcia at 302 853-0935
      mlschieck@gmail.com

      • January

        I’m normally the first to recommend the Delaware beaches, but please beware — there’s been a reported increase in COVID cases in Dewey in the last several days due to people not wearing masks and not practicing social distancing. If you think you could mostly stay indoors/isolated, it would probably still be nice.

    • DC info

      Someone in my DC neighborhood listserv just posted two new vrbo listings for Rehoboth by the Sea. The link is in moderation but the numbers are
      2005645
      2003849

    • Anonymous

      For a super quiet getaway, check out VA’s middle peninsula – Gwynn’s Island probably has some openings, as well as nearby Deltaville. Antiquing, seafood, quiet days on the water.

  3. Sunbelt residents

    So our governors have just decided to let COVID run its course…? I’m in Georgia, where we’ve had large recent spikes, and I don’t see any movement from state or local governments to roll back to any of the previous restrictions.

    • anonshmanon

      I thought the Texas governor was trying to backpaddle on opening things. Not sure about FL, AZ.

      • Anon

        My parents and brother are in Arizona. There is no talk yet of reverting to an earlier phase of shutdown. Their governor is not showing very good leadership and has apparently bowed to pressure from business leaders to keep things open despite Covid-19 running rampant. It is dire out there. ICUs are at capacity. They are seeing people in their 30s and 40s dying. My mom said more people are wearing masks in public than previously but still not 100% usage. When they opened up, they went from 0-60 – there was really not a phased reopening; one day they were shut down and one day they were reopened and my mom said it was as though there never was a virus. No one wore masks in public. The bars were immediately packed. They’re definitely paying for it now. We’re starting to make plans to move my parents to where I am (NM) temporarily. Neither of my parents has any kind of serious health condition but they are in their 70s and live in a senior community where there have already been multiple cases.

      • Anonymous

        Texas is rolling back on some activities — no bars, no tubing — to cut down the partying. Fla just rolled back alcohol sales in bars, take out only, but the rest seems up to each locality.

      • Anonymous

        I live in Arizona. Our state leadership is doing nothing to slow the spread, which is rampant. The hospitals are at capacity, yet the Governor has not opened the hospital he claimed was ready to go if the current hospitals got overrun. People who definitely should be staying in hospitals are being sent home with oxygen — and amazingly bars are still at 100% capacity every Thursday-Saturday night. At least Texas and Florida had enough sense to close the bars.

    • Anonymous

      Texas has taken steps. I’m sure your state will too once masses of people start dying, you run out of morgue space, and the hospitals are full.

    • Anonymous

      NC put further reopening on pause and ordered mask-wearing (which seems to be legislatively problematic, but I don’t really personally need legal authority to make my decision; masks it is, everywhere, until the end).

      • Anonymous

        Mask wearing was pretty good in the Triangle but I’m on the coast for the week (not going out to eat, not at a crowded beach) and literally no one at the local produce store had a mask on but me. Large chain grocery store was requiring them and handing out masks to those who didn’t have them, but the lack of compliance at the local store was disheartening.

        • Pompom

          This is what I’ve heard about the beach, too, from friends. They had less confident things to say about the HT store they visited, but that was maybe (hopefully?) a one-off. My guesstimate is that about 90% of folks are wearing masks out and about for errands, on the sidewalks, etc. in my part of the Triangle.

    • Anonymous

      Didn’t Kemp’s order prevent local governments from imposing stricter guidelines? Perhaps KLB and other mayors could impose restrictions on City parks and property/the Beltline. But frankly, I don’t think people are picking up coronavirus at the park. ATL is not the real problem anyway and locals elsewhere are probably afraid of backlash for any rollback and thus taking cover under Kemp’s decisions.

    • Anonymous

      It’s so bonkers to watch. I’m in MA where we are creaking the door open on reopening. I dropped my elem schooler at summer camp today (all camps for <5 kids and almost all of my 7 y/o’s were cancelled so we also have a nanny). Camp is extremely restricted, masks on everyone, hand sanitizer like crazy, and it’s a 100% outdoor camp. No swim lessons or horseback riding.

      We, and nearly everyone I see in public, are all mask all the time. My just turned 2 y/o wears one.

      As a family we have been slowly expanding Our bubble, which is a risk we chose to take for our own sanity. Mostly, direct neighbors and a family that my younger kids go to daycare with.

      Watching the news is like watching another planet.

      • anon

        Similar in Northern California, slow and careful reopening, feels like everyone is doing their best.

        • Anon

          I think a lot of it is also just time. The states that are bad now mostly opened in late April/very early May. A lot of blue states didn’t really start reopening until late May or early June, about a full month behind the first states to open. It’s easy to be on a high horse, thinking your state is doing so much better than those rednecks in the south, but the fact remains that exponential growth is really slow in the beginning and even if you’re going to have a spike it will take time to build up to it. There are idiots who party without masks in EVERY state.

          • Anonymous

            … which is why I am still staying home even though my purple state is reopening.

    • Anon

      They’re probably going to claim that locking down again would be too harmful economically. B*tch please, you never locked down for real. What’s harmful is letting the virus run unchecked. That’s what will destroy the economy because people will not feel safe to travel and shop and consume.

      • Anonymous

        FWIW, any time you shut down schools from March-June, you are at least putting parents on lockdown. In some states / cities, that is an awful lot of the population. So never mind what the official news is, a lot of us are still on lockdown with no camps and limping along on SummerSchedule7.0 while trying to work FT. And there isn’t and end in site on that, but maybe it is reassuring that some of us are still on lockdown and will continue to be until school (praying praying praying) reopens in the fall. Taking one for the team here.

      • Anonymous

        Here is my theory: Governments in the U.S. always planned just to let it run its course. They knew that a half-a$$ed lockdown that wasn’t used to build up testing and tracing capacity would do very little in the long-run. The plan was to blame the economic fallout on the lockdown rather than the virus itself.

      • anon

        Yep we could’ve been done with this thing before Memorial Day if only we had done a real, nationwide lockdown. Instead we’re going to be haunted by people + businesses dying for many more months to come. ‘Merica!

          • Anon

            Not true? That’s how it played out in every other country that isn’t run by an incompetent fascist.

          • Anon

            +1

            that is literally not true in most of Europe. You can criticize Trump’s response (valid) while not idealizing every other country’s response.

    • Anonymous

      I think this goes back to the question that has been disagreed over ad nauseum on this site for the past months: is the role of the restrictions on activities and businesses to eradicate the virus or to keep the numbers of the spread to a manageable place so that the healthcare system is not overloaded.

      I am on the “side”–if it can be called that–of “keep the healthcare system from being overloaded.” I do not, practically, see any way of eradicating the virus unless we somehow magically transform a huge majority of our populations–young and old, of all social groups and belief systems and personality types—into careful, ongoing, guideline followers who restrict themselves (not going to happen) or become a police state (heaven forbid that happens).

      So my answer to your question would say that any action taken by the states should be from predictions regarding hospital capacity.

      • Anon

        No, we are also waiting for the testing and contact tracing we were promised and that we never received.

        • Anon

          “No, we are also waiting for the testing and contact tracing we were promised and that we never received.”

          Who promised this? I don’t remember being “promised” anything. I do remember people talking about testing and contact tracing being a good idea. But also very expensive and tough to implement. Also, contact tracing isn’t working in NYC. There was an article about it in the NYT a few days ago. Additionally, if you think people who won’t wear masks “because freedom” are going to submit to contact tracing before or after they get sick, I’ve got a bridge I can sell you.

          Where we are at now is obviously not a great place but let’s not create false narratives about what we were and were not “promised.”

          • Anon

            He’s still claiming “anyone who wants a test can be tested.” He’s a lying liar who lies and yes, we were promised an actual response to this pandemic by others besides him.

          • Anonymous

            @anon at 10:59, according to the CDC 16,998,825 tests have been administered. there’s your millions of tests. what’s your point?

          • Anon

            Oh, so sorry, I didn’t realize anyone took Trump seriously when he said anything. To me, Trump promising “millions of tests” is like someone telling me I am going to get a unicorn with a rainbow mane and tail for my birthday. I am genuinely sorry for anyone who thought we were going to get genuine leadership from this Presidential administration; I had given up on that from Day 1 of his presidency and I think it’s made my life a lot easier.

          • Anonymous

            I think we need to acknowledge that Trump did make these promises and should be held to them (by voting against him as obviously he’s not going to fulfill them).

          • Anon

            Where do you live that you can’t get a test? Trump’s “anyone who wants a test can get a test” statement was certainly not true in March or April when he made it, but my state has had widespread free testing open to anyone for weeks now, and my impression is that our testing lagged behind many other places in the US. Friends have been getting tested just as a precaution after going to protests. No symptoms or doctors note required.

          • Anonymous

            We still do not have freely available testing, as I understand it. Major mid-Atlantic city.

          • Anon in So Cal

            I got a test last Tuesday and still do not have my results, so any attempts I might have made to warn the people I came into contact with (and I did come into contact with people because we re-opened and my choices were to go back to work or get fired) would be useless. So my test is essentially worthless at this point. We need testing with a fast enough result to actually allow for contact tracing.

            It is true that much of Europe CURRENTLY has a death rate per 100K higher than the US, the problem is that their case numbers are going down and ours is going up. It remains to be seen whether our death rate will go up in a couple of weeks. Or whether the combination of better treatment and the fact that so many of the people getting it right now are comparatively young will mitigate against that.

          • Anonymous

            anon at 1:19 you’re probably wrong. Testing is widely available. If you have a quest lab, you can get it.

          • Anon

            @Anon in So Cal, contact tracing works even without immediate test results. You should have been instructed to quarantine after your test, especially if you got the test because you had symptoms or known exposure. My mom was tested as part of a medical procedure (routine process, there was no reason to believe she was more likely to have COVID than any other person in her area) and was instructed to quarantine until she got a negative test result back. Once a test comes back positive, you can still do the contact tracing just fine, even if the person was tested a few days ago. You just need to confirm they were quaranting, and if they weren’t then you also need to trace everyone they had contact with during that period.

          • Anon in So Cal

            Maybe I should have been instructed to quarantine, but I was not. I have been staying home because I am running a fever and even my office does not expect me to come in – but they are not going to let every person I had contact with stay home for 2 weeks because they had contact with someone who might have Covid19. So those people are all still walking around blissfully unaware that they were in contact with someone who (maybe) had it.

            At least for my case the initial symptoms were all atypical. I had been having weird symptoms for at least 2 days before it occurred to me that I might have Covid.

            And to the person who said if you have Quest lab nearby, you can get tested. According to their website, they are not doing testing for active infections at their Patient Care Centers. You have to go to a third party to get tested. That is part of my problem – the place I was tested has to get the results from Quest (via fax apparently) and then input them into my chart before I can get the results.

      • Anonymous

        As you can see in some of the examples above, hospitals are reaching capacity in areas where no action is being taken. So that’s a nice idea and seemingly the loosest feasible restriction indicator, but why aren’t government’s doing this?

        • Anon

          Because cowardly governors in red states are afraid to listen to their public health experts and anger the demented, childish, and all-around asshole in chief. They’re cowards to the core. That is why we are in this position – the lack of true leadership in an unprecedented crisis.

          • Anon

            It’s not just the president, it’s the millions of people who hate government so much and are so entitled that they think the virus is a hoax and that mask mandates infringe on their “rights.”

        • Anon

          Because the constitution limits our ability to do things like lock people in their homes. It’s not allowed. And while it makes situations like this more difficult to deal with, I’ll take our more limited government power any day over theirs.

          • Anon

            I guess what I can’t wrap my head around is the people that won’t wear a mask in the pharmacy or a grocery store. Places that most people can’t just opt out of going to. I get that people are going to push back on being told to stay in their homes. That’s the whole “muh freedom” people are talking about elsewhere in this thread. But even if you are a “much freedom bro” why can’t you don a mask for the 20 minutes it takes you to the grocery store or the 5 minutes it takes you to run into the pharmacy, just in case there is a chance this mask stuff works. Or just so you don’t look like a selfish jerk.

            And if the issue is glasses, tuck the mask up under your glasses and they won’t fog.

          • Anonymous

            I think the “just in case there is a chance this mask stuff works” is the problem. The messaging around masks has been garbage, we are all over it, and the horse is out of the barn so to speak. Protect yourself but don’t get twisted about other people (because you can’t control them).

          • Anonymous

            The whole point is that there is evidence that masks work to protect other people. You can’t just “protect yourself.” There is a reason we don’t let people smoke in restaurants anymore.

          • Anonymous

            Please read TheConstitutionCenter.org article or podcast on the coronavirus. Both the states and the federal government have power to act including quarantine power. The Supreme Court caselaw from the Yellow Fever epidemic upheld Louisiana’s quarantine statutes. In other words, the state does have the authority to act.

      • Anon

        “I am on the “side”–if it can be called that–of “keep the healthcare system from being overloaded.” I do not, practically, see any way of eradicating the virus unless we somehow magically transform a huge majority of our populations–young and old, of all social groups and belief systems and personality types—into careful, ongoing, guideline followers who restrict themselves (not going to happen) or become a police state (heaven forbid that happens).”

        Right. It’s a sad conundrum and inexplicable in many ways. Even in the places like Florida, where cases are exploding, people are not voluntarily restricting their movements or wearing masks. I think it should be evident by now that there is a population for which no amount of social pressure is going to make them alter their behavior. It’s also clear there are more than a few state governments out there who will not re-institute shutdowns regardless of how many people in their state get sick and die. I don’t think that going toward the police-state situation will work out well at all given other current events and the national dialogue happening about policing. I also don’t think it’s fair to put law enforcement in that position, of policing people’s adherence to social-distancing and mask-wearing. It will just create more antipathy. So I guess the answer is, my family and I will continue to social-distance and stay home and wear masks and hope for the best and try to stay away from the folks who “don’t believe” in any of those things. I’m not going to work myself in a lather over those people because I can’t control them – apparently no one can control them. I don’t know what else to do.

        • Anon

          So how did the US corner the market on stupid people? Apparently there are no “MUH RIGHTS” people in Europe?

          • Anon

            ‘MUH rights’ people don’t exist in a vacuum, they exist because of the individualistic society of the USA. Other countries don’t have the same societal beliefs that the US does which is why the ‘MUH rights’ folks largely don’t exist there. Also because of socialized medicine there is an understanding that Covid is an everyone problem.

          • Anon

            If you don’t understand the myriad and multiple differences between cultures in the United States (there’s not just one) and the cultures (there are many; there is not one monolithic “European” culture) in the many countries that make up the European Union, I can’t help you. Go do some reading and come back with a better, more specific question.

          • Anonymous

            Are you in the US? What you’re describing is an offshoot rugged individualism, a fundamental component of the American identity. I’m taken aback that the fact that anyone with any familiarity with this country could be surprised by this.

            I take no position on the relative merits of what you call a “muh rights” perspective, but I’m pretty alarmed at the ignorance that it would take for a person who has spent any time here to be surprised by it. Please ignore me if you’re located elsewhere.

          • Anon

            To me the genuine belief that so many Americans have that positivity and optimism (or conversely negativity and pessimism) control outcomes, combined with manifest destiny and the just world fallacy, seem more about the principled denial of reality than about rights or individualism.

          • Anon

            No, in Europe they arrest people who are out during lockdown, you’re only allowed to leave your place to go to the grocery store (limited to once/week).

            Europe is a *very* different culture, and is extremely geographically different. It’s comparing apples and oranges. I personally don’t want to live in a world in which the government limits my ability to get groceries to a once/week trip or my ability to take a walk for exercise.

          • Anon

            A lot of the Americans I know personally who are refusing social distancing and masks are also anti-vaccination and basically eugenicist (they are okay with the pandemic taking out the “weak” and unproductive). I would not say they are ruggedly individualistic, since they all believe and say the same things as one another. They just want to do whatever they want, whenever they want, like small children.

          • Anon

            Europe’s lockdown was longer and more compete. Testing and tracing works really well when you have a really small number of cases, but doesn’t really work at all when the virus is still running rampant through the population. Even at peak lockdown (late April) the US never got to the low numbers that many European countries did.
            Also, a number of European countries still have more deaths per capita than the US, and it remains to be seen what happens when they’ve been open for two whole months. I would not hold them up as a success story yet, although I agree that in general (there are exceptions) their leadership is better.

      • Anonymous

        You have made this comment before, but you seem to leave out why it is in the interests of all of us to slow the spread, which is to give time for clinical trials to place. We are getting results in almost every week, and some one getting sick now will have better care than they would have a few months ago.

        • Anon

          It’s definitely in everyone’s best interests to slow the spread. But since we apparently can’t control “everyone,” or even a subset of everyone, I’m going to control myself and not lose sleep over what I can’t control. If you missed it, all the guidance, advice, pleading, begging, etc. has not made one iota of difference in the behavior of the folks out there not wearing masks. I think we can continue talking about doing the right thing and modeling good behavior, but continuing to get agitated about other people’s behavior and wringing hands over it does nothing and gets us nowhere. It’s wasted energy and effort. If you want to continue doing it, that’s on you.

          • Anonymous

            Ah, this again. The difference is my area just closed a bar that would not follow the state guidelines, and the market will not let you in (a security guard is posted outside) without a mask. So the it’s impossible to control people thing is not actually a thing. The other piece of the puzzle is social shaming for private harmful conduct. So if you are not trying to help, you are part of the problem.

          • Anon

            “The other piece of the puzzle is social shaming for private harmful conduct. So if you are not trying to help, you are part of the problem.”

            LOLOLOL. Yes, the “social shaming” I guess we should have been doing has really been working, based on news photos and case counts! Girl, you haven’t even been able to successfully “socially shame” anonymous strangers on this blog! Do you really think anything you’re doing IRL is any more effective? I hope you’re not haranguing your friends, family and coworkers the same way you harangue people here. If anyone is still even making a pretense of listening to you, I guarantee they’ve tuned you out. But by all means, keep directing your energy into something that has no effect; my fingers are crossed it’s preventing you from doing something damaging.

    • cbackson

      Commiseration. I’m so angry. I know our numbers in GA are low in absolute terms and we’re lucky in ATL to have tons of hospital capacity, but all the progress we made in lockdown has been lost and Kemp is doing nothing. FYI, I think the executive order that barred local officials from stricter measures is still in place.

    • GA Wedding

      I’m invited to a family wedding that is, so far, still going on as planned in ATL in early-September. It’s estimated to be around 250 people. And, as the only out-of-towners in the family invited who would also have to fly from the northeast to attend, they think we’re insane for not coming.

    • SmallLawAtl

      Seven-day moving average of daily deaths, nationwide, is under 600 per worldometers.info which, as far as I know, is pretty reliable. The spike is largely asymptomatic cases, which are far less contagious if they are contagious at all. I’m not sure why this is a surprise? Didn’t we always know there were many times more cases than were ever reported or symptomatic?

      • Bridget Teddie Proctor

        But the spike is not only asymptomatic cases. Hospitals in Dallas, Houston, Phoenix, etc. are all at or 100% capacity. Deaths are also a lagging indicator.

        • Anonymous

          I’m with Bridget – just wait. It’s coming. The death rate is already creeping up in FL. I was just reading an obituary of a doctor in NYC who died June 11 – he got sick in April. When the percentage of positive tests is increasing at the same time the volume of tests is increasing, that is a bad sign. Even if it is just young and super healthy people getting it right now, which I doubt, they interact with the general population. Given how many retirees live in Florida there is no way this isn’t going to lead to many people dying.

          • Anonymous

            luckily in florida positive covid patients aren’t being placed in nursing homes with vulnerable populations.

          • Anonymous

            @anon at 11:28, I thought the problem was people who are already nursing home residents who do get sick. Where are those positive patients going to live or go to after hospital release if not their own residences? Genuinely curious.

        • Anon

          Exactly. There are so many people saying “ICU is not at ultimate capacity” but…that’s because they have instituted the surge capacity plan, cut out elective procedures and are moving non COVID adults into the Children’s hospital. THAT IS NOT NORMAL OR MANAGING WELL IN ANY WAY!

          I don’t think people understand that having a hospital bed doesn’t mean you all of a sudden have more, nurses, respiratory therapists, or critical care specialists. The death rate will go up when unqualified health care workers are forced to work out of their specialty.

          Not even to mention the horrible long term effects for a lot of people. Someone said it well “this is the first widely viral vascular disease we have ever seen and no one is taking it seriously enough.

          Sadly I think we’ll only see anyone in the south taking it seriously when their precious football players can’t play for a season because their lung capacity is damaged.

      • Anon

        I think people are responding to the fact that hospitalizations are also up. Houston reached its ICU capacity before it stopped reporting the data.

        Many of us are in states where are governors are acting like everyone can go back to normal with no negative consequences. Facebook posts are telling people that wearing a mask is the real danger. Our fellow citizens are acting accordingly. That’s the problem.

        I work in an office building downtown. I see maybe 15% of us wearing masks in the common spaces, the elevators, the bathrooms. Despite all the signs around the building. There are many elderly people working here. There’s only one way this will go.

        • Anon

          I don’t get this. Our company policy is masks are required and thus everyone is wearing masks and people that aren’t get called out/their supervisor tells them they have to. Is it just recommended by the signs and not required?

          • Anonymous

            It’s not tricky to enforce. Your company could require you to wear it & discipline/send you home if you don’t (barring a documented medical excuse). It’s a choice.

      • Anonymous

        Why do you think the spike is largely asymptomatic cases? The hospitals in my large metropolitan area are at 99% capacity. There are literally 4 ICU bets available in the entire county as of this morning. People are spending days being “parked” in the ER while they wait for a hospital bed. Asymptomatic cases are not taking up these hospital beds. I know many who have tested positive and none are asymptomatic. They have symptoms. The symptoms for most are not yet bad enough to go to the hospital but everything I have read indicates that those worse symptoms can hit days and weeks later.

    • Anonymous

      It is just me or does it seem that this latest spread is all young swells going out partying? At first, it was nursing home residents/workers/the transit-connected. Now, it seems that it is the 22-30 kids who are living it up. I feel that it is the party demographic driving this and b/c they are young and invincible it will get a lot worse before it gets better. My workplace just shut down for a deep-clean (which isn’t free — will probably result in further furloughs / salary reductions / layoffs) b/c some knucklehead went out partying and then brought it to work. See you mid-July!

      • Anon

        Yep. It’s not popular on this site, but the reason we are in such a bad situation is because so many people stopped even trying to social distance and they had either the tacit or direct approval of their state leaders. So much was in our power and we dropped the ball. The U.S. needs to go extinct for the good of our planet and we’re on our way there now. I don’t even care anymore.

        • Anon

          Except that, you know, you also live here? Do you have family here, or friends? This is a pretty dark view and makes me concerned for you.

          • Anon

            The pandemic is hastening the mass extinction event we are already in. Climate change and zoonotic diseases are inextricably linked. The U.S. has done more than any other nation to destroy the planet and now the pandemic is going to destroy so many of us because we are so dumb and full of hubris and we seem to believe that we’re exceptional, but nature doesn’t care. I hope that all other nations fare better than we do; they deserve it more.

          • Anon

            It’s not true at all that the US has done more to destroy the planet than any other country. China has had a far bigger impact on the environment than the US. Obviously the US can do better, but falsely stating we’re the worst doesn’t help your cause.

          • Anon

            You don’t get it. What I think or what you think about whether China or America is “worse” is completely irrelevant. You think this virus cares what two nobodies on this site think? It’ll run its course and overpower any nation that doesn’t take the evidence-based steps to mitigate its harms, regardless of ideology. China knows that. The U.S. doesn’t. That’s what makes us so much more deserving of the harm we’ve caused – that not only do we wreck the planet any chance we get, we think we’ve above the consequences of our actions to boot.

          • Anon

            You seem to be catastrophizing. If the virus runs it’s course in the US, ~0.5-1% of the population will die. That’s devastating for the many people who will lose a loved one, but it’s not going to destroy civilization or the US.

          • anonshmanon

            per capita, China is nowhere near the emissions that the US produces.

          • Anon

            I agree that it’s not clear which country is most responsible for environmental harm. But the US military is way up there, and we’re not going to make up for military pollution with personal consumption habits.

        • anon

          I agree — this version of American is truly horrible for the entire world. We should be ashamed of what we have become. Do better.

        • Anon

          You do understand that this is a very short chapter in world and American history, right? America, with all of it’s flaws, has been a force for good many times. It has also made many errors.

          If you don’t want to be here – leave.

          • Anon

            I disagree. There are great Americans, but as a country, we have been murderous and sociopathic from the moment of our founding. We kill people, especially brown people, whenever we want and for any reason we want, domestically and internationally. That’s why so many today are experiencing such great pain and trauma in the fight for racial justice; hideous behavior runs in our DNA, like Coates said. The pandemic is another symptom of our national sickness.

          • Anon

            Have you seriously not studied the traumas and horrors inflicted by other countries? It’s in our DNA as *humans* not as Americans. I seriously recommend you study some of the horrors inflicted by other countries – they’re bad, just as bad as ours.

            You can’t view the US as exclusively good or bad – people who view us as exclusively bad are as problematic as the people who view everything the US does through rose colored glasses.

          • Anon

            I’m not interested in “what-about-ism.” I’m allowed to acknowledge that the U.S. has inflicted untold horrors on untold millions while calling itself the leader of the world and the world’s last superpower and all that other garbage.

          • Anon

            I think American exceptionalism is dangerous and plays into collective narcissism whether it’s framed positively or negatively, but “all humans are like this” (in their “DNA”) is ridiculous. Not every civilization has this history. Even if we limit comparisons to major empires, there are empires that were generally liked by the people they conquered. It’s not “human nature” to make the choices that were made in US history.

          • Anonymous

            Ty anon at 12:24. Trump detachment syndrome is at an all time high. “Murderous and sociopathic from its founding”? If you all hate America so much leave. I’m curious where you think you could go that has a better track record. Peace out

      • Anonymous

        In my city, in the fun party zipcodes (my city’s Wrigleyville), it’s very much a “what pandemic” look as people were going out Friday night. My zipcode is pretty staid and lame and our #s show it. But if you go out over the weekend, you’re spreading it until you start to feel sick mid-week (in the meantime, you may have been in my grocery store or at my reopened essential workplace). Thanks. Sharing is caring.

      • Anonymous

        In my state we don’t have open bars, so it’s not partners. Instead we had a wave of right wing no mask protesters and then a wave of BLM protesters, and after each wave we had case spikes in red and blue counties respectively. We should have denied parade permits to everyone.

        • Anon

          Scientists have done studies that show BLM protests didn’t lead to spikes, fyi. And this is just anecdotal, but in my red state the BLM protests have the highest percentage of masks per person anywhere. The protests are like maybe 80% wearing a mask correctly, the grocery store (indoors) is at most 30%, and the parks/playgrounds (outdoors) are almost 0%.

        • Anonymous

          Thanks, I read the WA article. It interviewed a single contact tracer who found no one told him they had been at a protest. Prominent protest organizers were telling protesters that if they got tested they should not say they had been at protests, lest it impact the quality of their care.

      • Anon

        It’s astounding how many cases are linked to bars. I really think if we just shut down all bars we could get back to normalcy in many other areas of life (with precautions like masks where possible) without the massive death toll.

        • Anonymous

          We had a phase that was take out only, so pubs could serve food and drinks to go.

    • Anon

      As a Canadian this is so bananas to me I can’t even fathom it. My city has 2000 cases TOTAL; there are US cities where they have thousands of cases A DAY and stuff isn’t shut down??!!! At our peak we were getting maybe 20-30 new cases a day and everything was completely shut down. The streets were empty, people barely left their homes. Bananas.

      • Anonymous

        I think you have just identified the theme song for 2020. This $ H I T is bananas. B A N A N A S.

  4. Fake news

    I call fake news — shorts with a defined waist can’t be a thing still. I feel that we are all a bit COVID-15 these days — can I get something stretchy or with a drawstring waist at least???

  5. Anon for this

    Floridians… what is going ON down there?? We’ll be arriving in Naples later this week for vacation (our own house, our own pool, and just doing groceries and takeout — minimal interaction with others). We will be wearing masks when shopping or ducking into a restaurant to grab our food. Will we be hassled? Will people be all up in our business at the grocery store – should we plan to shop at weird hours to avoid that? Curious what to expect so we can be prepared…

    Before y’all yell at me not to go, we are doing our best to uphold our own responsibility here (have been isolating for 3 months, and are willing and able to isolate for 2 weeks after returning just in case), but mental health is a thing too and as city condo dwellers… it’s getting bad.

    • Anon

      Can’t speak for Naples, but we have family in Tampa, and yes – they wear masks in indoor, public spaces, and regularly get comments and dirty looks for doing so. Many, many people do not and are very vocal about not wearing masks.
      Anecdata but true.

      • Anonymous

        Vocal AT you? Or just vocal on NextDoor, FB, etc.?

        Not sure why I’m so pearl-clutchy re manners this morning, but some days it is where we stop being people and start down a Lord of the Flies path. I mean, you can still distinguish random citizens from, say, people out robbing banks (like bank robbers in masks are probably not buying bread at Albertson’s as one of their daily errands), which might be a concern, but pretty far down on my list (and who even goes into a bank anymore, especially these days).

      • Anon

        According to family, vocal AT them. Making direct comments about the fact that they don’t need to be wearing masks.

        • Anon

          Yup. I’m in NH and was getting ice cream outdoors but was in a line and someone I didn’t know looked at me and said “why are you wearing a mask, we are outdoors.” I just said “high risk family member” and left it at that when I really wanted to say about 100 other things.

          • Anonymous

            There seems to be confusion about the outdoors thing. I am someone who is out and about outdoors a lot these days, and I do think it is safer than indoors, but we should be wearing masks anywhere we are in prolonged proximity (less than 6 or even 10 feet) with people outside our pods. Fleeting interactions are different from.standing in a line or shopping in a marketplace.

          • Anon

            I’m in MA and NH’s general disregard for the seriousness of COVID is driving me insane. I just want to scream at them to not come across the MA/NH border, stay out of our state, and don’t go near our hospitals. Because you know once things start getting worse up there they are going to want Boston healthcare, but refused MA-like restrictions! Ugh.

          • Anon

            Yeah, outdoors can be confusing generally. In that scenario, I’d wear one. But when I’m jogging or walking my dog for an extended period of time and I can reasonably socially distance and am maybe coming within 6 ft of another person for a few 1-2 second intervals? No, I’m not wearing one. But I am bringing one just in case!

          • Anon

            Same as Anon at 12:27. I don’t wear a mask when going out for walks, but someplace like the farmer’s market or waiting in line for ice cream I totally would.

          • Anon

            NH Anon here responding to MA Anon.

            I totally agree with you. Our governor actually did a great job. We had pretty strict restrictions including a full stay at home order and we were one of the last states to lift it. That said, many of our residents just completely ignored it.

            You are correct that if Dartmouth gets overrun, the cases will be shipped to Boston. Early in your lockdown though, before we had ours, NH people were really rude to MA people coming in state. They were getting run out of gas stations and grocery stores.

            Mass is looking great now and I’m hoping our fairly quick reopening doesn’t send us hurling backwards. It is very much a political issue here and as a purple state you can pretty much see what way everyone votes by whether they are wearing a mask or not.

            Also, like others, I don’t wear a mask just walking down my street or running but I do wear it walking in a busy downtown area or standing in lines.

    • Anonanonanon

      Yeah, I have to believe Naples will be a mess. Sorry. But thank you for being responsible! Much appreciated from this Floridian.

    • Anon

      This is going to vary a whole lot and be hyper-local. Publix as a rule lets customers do whatever they want, so there’s a lot of folks blowing off mask-wearing, 1 way aisles, etc. Costco is on top of things, as is my local co-op. The one restaurant I’ve gone to (because it has a great screen porch and one can eat outside comfortably) is doing a brisk takeout business. Most restaurants still seem to be predominantly takeout, from what I’m hearing from friends and seeing online. I’m in north Florida.

      • Anonymous

        I was in Jax Costco on Friday, and at least 10 percent of customers were it wearing a mask or had it as a chin strap. They staff requires wearing one to get in but aren’t enforcing it inside. Many people here are b*t sh*t cr*zy, and I deeply resent the costs they are imposing on the rest of us.

        • Anon

          I’m in Tallahassee and Costco is for the mask-wearing hippie pinko commie socialists (I say this tongue in cheek and as an avid Costco shopper!), so folks are on point with masks. We even have our own local crank flying huge MAGA flags to make some kind of point about masks taking away his freedom or some crap out at the far edge of the lot.

        • Anon

          The good news is you don’t need 100% mask compliance to slow transmission of the virus way down and control an outbreak. If 80% of people wore one, that would be enough. So business posting a sign saying they’re required does a lot of good, even if some small percentage of people choose to break the rules and the business doesn’t have the staff (or doesn’t care) to do any enforcement.

    • Leatty

      I’m in Florida (but not in Naples). It is an unmitigated disaster. In my county, residents must wear masks indoors, but not everyone does. I’d recommend doing instacart (or similar) for groceries and staying at your home.

      • Anonymous

        sorry, but what is the disaster? people not wearing masks? i haven’t heard about bodies in the street or even a hospital overflow.

        • Leatty

          Not yet, but our cases are skyrocketing and ICUs have low or no capacity. The percentage of positive cases has also grown significantly. Since hospitalizations and deaths are a lagging indicator, those will increase over the coming weeks. It’s also really hard to get tested – my area opened another testing site this morning, and it had reached capacity by 8 am.

          The state rushed to reopen in May, and many people have stopped social distancing. Masks aren’t required in the state, although some counties have attempted to require them. If you’d like to see Florida man in action, google palm beach county mask hearing.

          Our governor refuses to close things down again, because he trusts Floridians to follow social distancing (although he also said that you “can’t control” what young people do). Of course, just a few hours prior to that announcement, the state ordered the suspension of the consumption of alcohol at bars. He’s talking out of both sides of his mouth and refuses to take any action.

        • Anon

          If “bodies in the street” is your standard for poor handling of the pandemic, please wear a mask anyway to protect the rest of us who hope for a higher bar.

          • Anonymous

            Pay attention to what is happening in your community that might not be publicly announced (or a hot topic among your friend group). Look up those numbers. Watch your streets for the refrigerated trucks that serve as temporary morgues.

    • Anonymous

      Don’t go. This is foolish. Get out of your city condo and go somewhere that isn’t Florida. Would you have vacationed in NYC in March?

      • Anon for this

        OP here – well, no, but that’s because the point of visiting NYC is all the restaurants and culture that can only be enjoyed when things are open and safe. The point of visiting Florida is to sit by ourselves in a yard with a pool and take beach walks by ourselves. Once there, it’s likely we’ll be in close proximity to way, way fewer people than we are at home (where going for a walk means – city sidewalks or crowded river trail with cyclists and runners passing by constantly).

        Given we’re going, we are looking for advice on what to expect – and given the responses about lack of mask wearing and obnoxious commentary, we’ll likely opt for one grocery run Friday night when we arrive (hopefully the Publix won’t be hopping at 7pm…) and then delivery instead of takeout.

      • Anon

        It’s their own house, driving, and at the beach. It’s no more dangerous than going to the Hamptons outside of groceries.

        To be cautious maybe get groceries in a bigger less backward city close by and stick in a cooler.

    • Anonymous

      Not in FL but I have friends in Jacksonville. I’d be more wary about the grocery store than restaurants. Is there any way you could drive and bring your groceries with you?

    • Anon

      I have friends that just “escaped” Naples. About a week ago they saw the writing on the wall, packed up their kids, dog and one set of grandparents and drove to Maine to stay with the other set of grandparents until it is safe to return to Naples.

      I agree that mental health is important but could you rent a place somewhere safer? Are you bringing kids? I would worry about the inevitable illness or injury that happens on vacation and having to access health care down there right now.

      • Anon for this

        OP here – we’re a healthy couple in our 30’s, no kids. The problem with “somewhere safer” is the closer beaches to us are a crowded disaster (so crowded that the state is offering free tests to anyone who was there this weekend), and the houses that have their own pools are huge and priced for a multi-family vacation.

        • Anonymous

          You’re a healthy couple in your 30s with no kids, going to Florida is selfish and irresponsible, it is a large country you can figure something else out. The Jersey Shore is fine. Cape Cod is doing okay.

          • Anon

            +1

            Travel anywhere right now is insane. This is how the virus spreads, because people think they are exempt or special.

          • Anon

            Yeah I’m sorry but there is responsible Covid travel and this is not it. Florida is a major hotspot now and air travel is inherently riskier than driving. And when you’re there you’re going to actually go shopping in stores instead of doing a pickup order? This is all so unnecessary. The whole country is going to have to shut down again in a couple months because of people like you insist on traveling without taking the virus into account at all. I completely understand wanting to get out of a crowded city apartment, but there are about a billion safer ways to do that.

          • Anon for this

            OP here – anon at 12:50, the whole point of my post is how to be prepared and responsible. We can’t get our money back because we booked after Covid was a known risk, but it was holding relatively stable in Fla and as I said, our goal for the trip is basically to avoid human contact. We will not be out at the bars (which I think were just shut anyway) or dining indoors or gathering with groups of any size. We will be sitting at our own pool and ordering takeout.

            At home, we’ve been doing a weekly in-person errand day because people behave responsibly in stores (masks are enforced and worn with no fuss, if someone needs to get by you to an item, they are cautious about it, etc). Obviously, that’s not something we can rely on happening in Florida… so we’ll change our plan to delivery.

        • Anonymous

          Eh, I think you’re fine. Wash your hands. Stick to your own house.

          Wearing a mask in public is for the protection of others unless you are wearing a respirator. So if you are worried about catching COVID, stay in your own space and sanitize and wash. Don’t go out to dinner. Take long walks on the beach staying 10’+ apart from other groups (you don’t need a mask when you can stay that far apart). Sit outside and enjoy your own pool.

          Don’t go to bars and restaurants. Minimize your grocery shopping and wash your hands.

      • Anon

        Yes, agreed. Mental health is important but you can rent a cabin somewhere other than Naples. That’s a false binary. However, thank you for doing your part over the last several months when so many have done absolutely nothing.

      • Anon

        What on earth are these people talking about “safer”? You’re a healthy couple in your 30s that won’t be interacting with anyone. If I were immunocompromised, I might not head to a hot spot right now, but like what on earth. I think this is also part of why the anti-maskers are so dug in – they read stuff like this and y’all just sound nuts – isolating in a house somewhere else isn’t the issue – it’s the people interacting with others (house parties, bars, protesting) without masks.

        • Anon

          The problem isn’t that they’ll get seriously ill, it’s that they’re going to a place with a major outbreak and are then going back for their home state and will spread it around and infect people there. Obviously 2 people are not going to have that much impact individually, but if everyone thought like this, the whole country would soon look like Florida. I don’t see anyone on this thread saying OP shouldn’t travel anywhere, but this is about the least safe trip imaginable. Few places in the world outside of Latin America have higher infection rates than Florida right now.

    • Anon

      I’m in North Florida. About 50% of the people wear masks. I would not go to Naples / South Florida right now. If you must do Florida go further north. Tampa has a beach…..

    • Anon

      Where are you coming from? NY, NJ and CT already have 14 day strict quarantine requirements on people coming home from Florida. I would not be surprised if many more states enact them in the next week or so.

      • Anon for this

        We don’t have a quarantine order in effect now, but would not be at all surprised if one is put in place. In any event, even if not required to do so, we will stay home for two weeks after we return. Both of us are WFH and our offices are closed until at least fall, we can order groceries to restock, etc.

        • Anon

          You are clearly going to go but you should know it’s irresponsible and risky, EVEN WITH the measures you’ve described. There is no perfect way to distance while traveling; there just isn’t. You need to sit with that and understand it and not fool yourself into thinking you’ve come up with the perfect travel plan.

          • Anon

            I don’t think scolding and attempting to shame the OP is going to change her behavior, or anyone’s. Please think about why you find it psychologically satisfying to do this to people. Ask yourself, is this about the OP’s questions or is this about me finding an outlet to express my frustration and anxiety? Answer those questions. Sit with that.

    • Anonymous

      I live in Jacksonville Beach. I wear a mask every place I go; no one has ever said anything to me about it. Perhaps I don’t look friendly. I don’t think you should fret.

  6. Divorce Advice

    My husband has moved out of our home for a trial / temporary (maybe) separation. I want to get my ducks in order, and have contacted a divorce attorney for consultation later this week. The attorney comes highly recommended by colleagues and is well regarded from what I can tell online.

    Besides asking the general “how do I prepare myself in case we do get a divorce”, is there anything else I should be asking? Should also be doing? I’m already in individual therapy, and have collected all financial docs.

    • Daffodil

      OP- For more context, we have no kids and we both have full time jobs. Thanks in advance!

      • ELS

        I’ve been where you are, and we decided to divorce. We’re in the process of doing a collaborative, and are having a financial neutral make recommendations about how to structure a property settlement.

        The big thing I would recommend is this, looking back: Decide on a plan for how money will work during the separation, write it down, and file it with the courts if you need to for it to be enforceable in your state. If you have joint finances, will they stay joint in this time? Will you segregate income if you’re not already?

        The rest will depend a lot on your personal situation. My soon-to-be-officially ex and I are still on good terms, and are able to discuss money and housekeeping divorce matters without being angry or losing our minds, so collaborative works for us right now. I have another lawyer on hold in case we need to litigate, but it’s still looking OK.

        I found, in my situation, that the lawyers in my area wanted very much to start the process super adversarially, which wasn’t necessary in my situation. YMMV, but do get everything you can sorted out while tensions are relatively low.

    • Anonymous

      I think you’re doing all the right things! Focus on taking care of yourself and putting your own interests first.

    • Maudie Atkinson

      You say you’ve collected all financial docs. Is your banking already separate? Are your credit cards separate? If not, do that today. At a minimum, set up a separate checking account and have your paycheck start going there. Your situation sounds much more civil and amicable than mine was, but in the initial weeks after my ex-husband left, I still swore to friends he would never clean out our joint accounts, until he did. It’s an insurance policy, if nothing else.
      Beyond that, start figuring out now how you can take care of yourself, especially in this time when friends and family might be less available for in-person support. I mean taking care of yourself in very literal ways–if you were caring for a small child, you would make sure she had nutritious food, that she had time to play (preferably outside) every day to burn off energy, you would make sure she was sleeping enough and at regular intervals. Do those things for yourself. I made a list of things that felt good (hot bath, lighting candles, taking my dog for a walk, reading a book, listening to Lemonade on repeat, sewing or doing something else creative, etc.) tried to do as many of those things in a day as I could.

    • Anon

      Make sure you have really collected ALL the financial docs. Two of my friends found out their husbands had secret accounts in their name only during a divorce.

  7. anon

    Super random question but you all are so good about knowing about and finding things. About to go on a long roadtrip with kids. We have a suburban but not one with screens (on purpose) but I’d like to macguyver something for this trip. The back of headrest tablet holders I’ve seen on amazon are apparently too narrow for Suburbans/Yukon XLs? Does anyone have one and have anything they’ve used (or a different product)?

  8. Guilty secret

    So, I’m a POC though not African American. And I am ashamed to admit that Gone With The Wind is one of my favourite books! I read it as a teen and loved it, though I wasn’t thinking about it’s denial of slavery conditions, it’s glorification of the Southern way of life etc. Mostly, I loved the characters, the dialogue, the sweeping descriptions etc. Re read after a few years and I was drawn especially to the rebellious nature of Scarlett and how she has so much gumption. Now with BLM and our ever awakening knowledge of the many ways in which it is possible to be racist (and I’ve been on the receiving end, mind you), I cannot bring myself to hate it. I am not blind to what plantation conditions were, have read a lot about that….but…..the book is still a beautifully written one and I cannot bring myself to hate it.

    Do you feel like that about books, music etc?

    • Anonymous

      Okay. I think you’re looking for a pat on the head and reassurance this is okay. Which frankly is ridiculous. You don’t have to genuinely hate Gone with the Wind in your heart. You also don’t get good person lints for sharing your struggle about it. Fortunately reading is a private activity! You can do this all by yourself!

    • Anon

      I reread Gone with the Wind last year. Honestly, it is a great work of literature. I don’t mean great in the sense that I love it, but that it is the type of epic novel that you probably only see once or twice in a generation. It deserved the Pulitzer. Today, though, I believe its value is as a historical document. It offers the perfect illustration of mythmaking in action – did any other book basically birth a movement comparable to the Lost Cause movement? Did any other book so firmly cement harmful stereotypes with such resonance and power? Did any other book both shatter femininity and forever trap its main character in it? It’s a powerful read in many ways, full of contradictions and complexities while also being driven by a very simple racist message, woven through every page.

      All in all, the book is deeply offensive. I would not let my kid read it without critical context, which I did not have the first time I read it as a teenager. I would only read it now if you are fully prepared to critically analyze its contributions to racist ideologies in this country. Of course you are free to read it for whatever reason you like, but I feel that obligation personally.

    • Anonymous

      Oh, definitely. For me, the key is to not try to do that whole thing where you separate the art from the artist: you have to look their problematic views right in the face, and integrate them into your overall critical and mental engagement with the work in question.

      One of the best ways that I’ve found to do that within the framework of fiction specifically, is to read works by own-voices authors, alongside it. So like off the top of my head, I might pair reading Gone with the Wind with e.g. Homegoing by Yaa Gyasi (which I have not read) or Colson Whitehead’s The Underground Railroad. That exercise has made me reflect differently on some previously-beloved work, in ways that have not always been comfortable for me as a white woman. But for me, it’s the most ethical way that I have found for my personal reading practice to continue engaging with problematic works in the literary canon.

      I’m sure other folks have different ideas on this and there are definitely different approaches–just sharing what has worked for me. Would love to hear how others approach this question.

    • Anon

      I read the book this year for the first time and absolutely loved it (though I disliked and am mindful of the racist portions). I’m also POC but not black. However, I also took several history classes taught by black professors in college on slavery and its portrayal in literature, and first studied Gone with the Wind as a racist movie in college. So going in, I was skeptical and already aware of the book’s prejudices.

      That said, the narrative, plot, and most of all, Scarlett’s character has really won me over. I think of all the classical literature that I’ve read, her character was revolutionary and liberating in the sense of agency she represented. It is also really refreshing to see a strong female character who embraces her femininity, uses it to empower and protect her family, and is NOT a tomboy. As much as I liked Little Women, Jane Eyre, and all the classics, there seems to be a literary trope of a strong female character being a tomboy, which in itself can be a little sexist and suggests a woman can only be strong if she has masculine qualities. What I like about Gone with the Wind is that it’s the first time in classical fiction where a strong female character is celebrated for her feminine traits. I don’t think the book should be removed from required reading simply because of its other dimensions. But I do agree with the poster above that this book should not be read without any understanding of the racist context first.

    • Anon

      I find that book very entertaining and is definitely a page turner. Maybe it’s just me, but Scarlett seems like the villain though. She starts off being immature and whiny, proceeds to jealous and vindictive, once she gets her way she realizes she hates her husband, is incapable of loving her own children, scrapes through the war because her terribleness gives her some grit, enslaves white people in those prison work camps which ironically makes other white people horrified (I can’t figure out if the irony is intentional or not, it seems like a commentary on slavery that is lost on many people), and then at the end even the one kind of terrible man who loves her washes his hand of her. I feel like anyone who likes Scarlett or finds it romantic is missing the point. There’s a lot to discuss. It’s a complex book and liking it doesn’t mean you find it a wonderful, romantic story.

      • Anon

        Yes yes so much yes. It’s a well written book but my God Scarlett is just an emotional dumpster fire. I don’t see how anyone likes her, she’s a nightmare. Her dreadful (albeit realistic) personality and the racism allow for good discussion. I still personally hate it with a fire passion.

      • Lana Del Raygun

        You’re definitely right about Scarlett. And it does still glorify the old rich Southern lifestyle in a lot of ways, but I can never quite make up my mind how much it subverts that (e.g. the constant emphasis on the blood color of the soil as a reminder of the brutality their wealth and leisure is based on) and how much I’m projecting from my modern, non-Southern perspective (e.g. the gallantry is appealing in its own way, but then the absurd violence of the dueling brings me up short — but maybe an older, more Southern reader would be less put off by it?).

      • Anon

        Melanie is the protagonist of Gone With the Wind, not Scarlett. Scarlett isn’t intended to be the hero; she’s the cautionary tale. Margaret Mitchell wanted to make a point about economically- and sexually-liberated women meeting with disaster. The book’s pretty sexist in addition to being racist. Mitchell wrote the book to champion the “Southern (aka white) Way of Life” and that’s why at the end of the book Rhett comes around and starts embracing all the aspects of Southern society he had previously rejected. I also found it to be a page-turner and an enjoyable read as an epic novel. But it’s important to recognize it for what it is and the author for who she was: a prejudiced bigot, who’s not deserving of long-lasting accolades.

        • Anon

          There can be multiple protagonists in a novel, not just one. Also, female characters, in general, have been put on a pedestal and must be perfect, whereas male protagonists are allowed to be flawed and interesting in a way that female protagonists are not accepted. Part of the reason why this book was ground breaking and subversive from a literary perspective is the way it centers around a flawed heroine.

          • Anon

            LOL thanks but I took American literature in college too and know a book can have two protagonists.

            A book can be groundbreaking and subversive. And a book can racist and sexist and immensely damaging. Those things can coexist. There’s no amount of high-minded justification from former English majors that can apologize for, and explain away, the damage the book did to African Americans. Other people have done a good job of explaining it.

        • Anon

          Margaret Mitchell’s mother was a locally prominent suffragist. I think it is interesting to look at it with that lens.

          • Moonstone

            And Mitchell donated money in the 1940s to Morehouse to finance the education of black doctors. She never spoke of it, and it was only made public in the 1990s. That doesn’t wipe the slate clean for the damage the book did, by any means, but she was a complicated person.

      • Anonymous

        She and Maria in TSOW make clothes from curtains. But they are such different people. IIRC, everything Scarlet touches gets ruined / or doesn’t come out for the better. It kills my mom that Ashley is now a girls name. I thought it was interesting that she was Irish since Irish people in the US had been so horribly treated (Catholics, too). Georgia was founded as a haven for Catholics (along with Maryland) and it seemed good at the time that oh, they finally get an Irish-descent heroine and, um, she’s not that nice (but it is a very compelling character). Dancing in her widow’s weeds.

    • Anonymous

      I’m also a non-black POC who loved GWTW for many of the same reasons you mentioned. I used to think that I “got it” as a POC even though I wasn’t black, but I now realize that I do not, in fact, get it because what black Americans face is just on another level from what I face. I don’t think you’re now required to hate it, but I think it is helpful to take a few minutes to do a thought exercise and consider how you would feel if the slaves in GWTW looked like you, to try to see how you might feel about GWTW if you were black, and how you would want others to feel about GWTW if you were black.

      If other people loved and held up as a significant cultural institution a book where the entire plot and premise are only made possible by a system that denied the humanity of people who look like you, kidnapped children from their parents who look like you, brutalized and slaughtered on a daily basis people who look like you, raped women who look like you, then – even if it was a beautiful work of fiction, even if those events happened a long time ago, you might not require that everyone hate it, but you might want people to think a bit harder about it and what it means to people who look like you.

      • Anonymous

        Oops, I thought this comment got eaten so I rewrote and resubmitted it – sorry if it shows up a second time!

    • anon

      Do I feel nostalgia for works of art that I grew up loving then later learn have some serious issues? Yes. But I’m never really able to un-ring the bell. I think what is more surprising to me than things like GWTW, which is blatantly and epically racist, are things with more subtle and casual racism (or sexism) that just is kind of folded in. I was watching an adult swim cartoon the other day that came out 10-15 years ago and was kind of shocked by the negative stereotypical portrayal of some young black male characters that made it pretty clear that there was not a black person anywhere near the writers room.

      I will say that big-yet-problematic “classics” like GWTW help me understand the context that a lot of (boomer aged) people grew up in. If everything you read in school during your formative years had uncritical acceptance of the notion of american exceptionalism and colonialism, I can understand why you would find resonance with the concept of making america great again, for example.

    • Anon

      Agreed – it’s a great piece of literature but it’s also very flawed.

      I mostly read non fiction and this is one of the few novels to capture my attention. It really is an incredibly well written book.

      I also read it as an adult so I was able to contextualize the book and realize how horrific a lot of it is.

    • Anonymous

      I am also a non-black POC who loved GWTW for many of the reasons you mention. I used to think that I “got it” because I am also subjected to racism as a POC, but I now realize that what I face is not comparable to what black Americans face and I don’t, in fact, “get it”. I don’t think you’re required to force yourself to hate it, but it’s worth keeping in mind there’s a lot of great literature out there that does not have the problems of GWTW.

      When it comes to works of art that were once universally recognized as great, that we now realize are problematic, I try to imagine myself in the shoes of the person or people harmed by the art, and think about how I would want others to think about it, and what I would want others to understand about it. Again, I am not suggesting you are at all required to hate GWTW, but it might be helpful if you take a few minutes to do a thought exercise and consider if you might feel differently about GWTW, and if you might want others to feel differently about it, if the entire plot and premise required denying the humanity of people who looked like you, kidnapping children from their parents who looked like you, and brutalizing and slaughtering people just because they happen to look like you?

      I think that enjoying GWTW as much as I have in the past was also because I benefit from “white feminist” privilege (despite not being white). Yes, both Scarlett and Margaret Mitchell were women in a patriarchal society that did not recognize them as full persons equal to men, and yes they were brave and inspirational for doing what they did, but we should also recognize that they did so on the backs of black slaves, including black slaves who were women.

    • Anon

      I also think there is an outstanding question about whether books about racist people are themselves racist. In this case, I think the answer is yes; GWTW unequivocally contributed to and even led the development of racist stereotypes and fictionalized ideologies about the causes of the Civil War. It’s what people think of when they think of the “Old South.” However, we’ve had discussions about other books here, like the Little House on the Prairie series, and some readers have said they won’t read those books because the characters sometimes make racist statements. I personally don’t believe that a book portraying racism is inherently racist, especially when books are historical, but it’s an open question for sure (albeit open and closed in the case of GWTW).

      • Anonymous

        I have LHOTP and will inherit my mom’s very old GWTW that I read when I had the chicken pox (the memories! the scratching!). I have books about Stalin’s purges and WW2 and I think that many people take their horror where they find it. You can tour a plantation or go to Charleston and find the horror. WVA’s existence as a state is due to it breaking away from VA once it left the union (Social Distancing!). I listened to an NPR chat a week or so ago about why The Help is problematic; I think that that movie is good for reminding white people to be better people (not that it rings true for the help’s experience, but it is true enough to remind us that it is always the right time to do the right thing).

    • Anon

      I don’t think you have to hate it. I think you can appreciate it for what it is (a great work of literature) while also educating yourself on the problematic aspects of the book. I’m never an advocate for banning books or not studying them because they have problematic aspects – the problematic aspects tell you something about the time and place they were written. I despise, for instance, removing Mark Twain’s books from the curriculum for using the n word. I think it’s vital to discuss why that happened, what it means, and why it’s not okay to use that word – books can be educational tools, you don’t have to agree with what they’re pushing, you just have to be aware of it.

      • Anonymous

        I think there is a huge danger in erasing books like Huckleberry Finn from school curricula. Teach and contextualize this material. Get racism out in the open and unpack it. Sweeping it under the rug makes it easy for people to ignore.

    • Little Red

      I understand how you feel. I loved that book when I first read it in high school enough that I wrote my 11th grade English paper on it. That was more than thirty years ago. In thinking about it in more recent times, I’ve decided that the parts that I do like about the book, namely Scarlett and the other characters, aren’t sufficient reason to overlook the denial of slavery, glorification of the South, and its giving rise to the whole “Lost Cause” ideology.

  9. Anonymous

    Polling the audience – what is worse: (1) showing up on a zoom call wearing non-professional clothing, or (2) not turning on the zoom video (and potentially being “not present/visible”). Thoughts?

    • Veronica Mars

      I only turn the camera on about 50% of the time anyway. Mine has a professional headshot so if I’m looking scruffy I think it’s best not to turn it on.

    • anon

      the second. I’ve been on soooo many zooms with people in non-professional clothing in this period!

    • Anonymous

      If you are not turning it on only bc you aren’t dressed in work clothes then def #2 is worse.

      My husband is an exec and for a time he wore t shirts, his glasses (usually never wears)
      And a wild COVID hairstyle (he has curly hair which is normally short. Things got out of control fast and he’s half grey which you can’t tell as much when it’s short).

    • anon for this

      Slightly different issue – do be mindful of what is showing up in your background. Was on a diversity and inclusion call last week and one senior person had a framed picture in the background with an image of the team logo that read “Blackhawks Fan Parking Only.” Awkward. Also, completely understand that most people have makeshift office space in their homes, but another person had a seriously unmade bed in background that was distracting. I don’t really care if you are Suzy Homemaker, but I don’t want our clients to see it on a professional call.

      • Of Counsel

        A quick suggestion for anyone having this problem (I really have to do my Zoom calls from my bedroom since anyplace else has dog/cat/kid interference, a room divider/screen makes a wonderful background. I have a three panel sochi screen that I can curve behind me that blocks everything else from view. Cheap online and made my life so much easier!

    • Sloan Sabbith

      I was on a call last week with two high-ranking people at an external, government organization. One of them was in, no joke, clothes that looked like she’d gotten just back from a run. Hair in a stretchy headband, white athletic-type tee. I judged her a little bit, NGL, but wouldn’t have if it was just a t-shirt and undone hair. For that meeting I switched out of a Harry Potter tee, but when I’m just with my team it’s casual t-shirts all the way. They know what I look like.

    • cookie

      Neither is bad unless it’s an especially high priority meeting. My team is about 50/50 on turning on the video, and 90% are in casual attire like polos, sweaters, casual blouses, etc.

    • Anonymous

      I have a major case of mask-ne right now. Like I don’t want to hide it with makeup (not sure I could) but I just want to let my clean skin that looks like pizza get air and breathe. It’s not zoom camera ready. Sorry no sorry for not turning my video on today (or putting a post-it over my camera so it just looked like a bad connection).

    • Anon

      Depends in your office. We were just asked to start videoing more to hold people accountable – got the impression a number of lower level 20 somethings were dialing in from the golf course and beach. I was pretty anti video for a while, too, but I don’t mind it. With the video is on and in tees are on and hair is up in a bun some days. I won’t do wet hair for whatever reason, that’s my one (low) standard. We’re a pretty formal office (not law firm formal, but close) most normal, in-office days.

    • Anonanonanon

      Outside of a court hearing I don’t think either is bad. But most of my Zoom calls are just wasteful “checking in on the group” free for alls.

    • pugsnbourbon

      This depends so much on your workplace. Personally I don’t care either way, and it appears others I work with feel the same. FWIW my profile pic is me in casual clothes, grinning like a doofus with a giant zit on my chin.

    • Anon

      In my office 1 is no big deal and 2 is a little bit bad but lots of people (including me) do it.

    • Little Red

      The only time this is an issue is when the meeting is first thing in the morning and I’m still in my pajamas. I leave the camera turned off then.

  10. ear wax followup

    Wanted to thank everyone for the suggestions – tried debrox over the weekend and it helped a lot!

  11. Anonymous

    How well do Knomo bags hold up? I need a new backpack for work and am trying to decide between a Timbuk2 and a Knomo. I had a Timbuk2 for something like 10 years and it held up beautifully and is blizzard proof (which is important for where I live!) I like the look of the Knomo better since it’s more structured and polished, but would love to hear from those with experience with Knomo bags how well they hold up, especially in bad weather.

    Thankfully I won’t be commuting any time soon, but online shopping helps me feel normal. TIA!

    • Anon 2

      I have a leather Knomo bag that was used every day for four years and held up wonderfully – still looks brand new. Driving commute, but walked a few blocks from parking ramp to office and back.

    • Cb

      I’ve had a few bags but nothing that’s gotten massively frequent wear. I don’t think they’ll be as blizzard proof as Timbuk2. Once my “waterproof” coat was soaked through with melted snow but my Timbuk2 backpack was completely dry.

    • Anne

      I love the look of my nylon knomo bag but it shows scruffs a lot and I’m not happy with that part tbh.

    • Aquae Sulis

      I’ve used my black nylon Knomo most working days since 2016 and it still looks good as new. I bought a second one in a lighter colour, but that one showed up marks very quickly and I couldn’t get them off.

    • Anon

      I’ve had a Timbuk2 messenger bag that I got when I was a senior in high school (2006) that is still going strong.

    • anon

      I have a Knomo laptop bag that I really love. I’ve carried it in all sorts of weather, and while I’m under no illusions that it’s as robust as a Timbuk2, it performs well enough.

  12. Anon

    We are moving soon and for the first time will have extra room people can potentially sleep in/stay over when visiting. Most likely it will be in a family room we will otherwise use, so we need some sort of sneaky bed set up. Does anyone have a brand of pull out sofa where the pull out is actually comfortable? How can you tell ahead of time (esp in a world where we will probably have to buy online)? Or does anyone have a Murphy bed they’d recommend? Or any other creative solution I’m not thinking of?

    Alternatively, we could put a bigger than necessary bed in my daughter‘s room and have her sleep with her brother when we have visitors. But a queen bed would probably be too big. It’s unreasonable to think – for example – that 70ish year old grandparents would be comfortable sleeping together on a full, right?

    • Anon

      I really like my room and board pull out couch. I’ve slept on it and multiple guests slept on it and everyone found it comfortable.

    • Anon B

      We like Futonland’d Copenhagen sleeper couch made by Luonto Furniture (especially paired with a couple 17-18” tall small ottomans from West Elm!)

    • anon

      We bought a Bassett sleeper sofa used at an estate sale. The sofa is comfy for everyday lounging, and we’ve slept on the bed a few times when we gave the master bedroom to guests, but some guests have also slept on the sofabed. Everyone found it comfy. They are quite pricey and a pain to move though – super heavy.

    • Anon

      Stay away from the standard pull-out couches where you’re unfolding a mattress that’s full of springs. Ones with an inflatable mattress inside are pretty comfortable. IKEA also makes some good ones where the bed part lifts up to the same height as the couch.

      We also have a foam mattress topper for our guest bed/pull out couch.

      • InHouseAnon

        I recently stayed in an airbnb with the Ikea sofa mentioned above, and found it surprisingly comfortable. After two weeks, I was ready for a real bed, but we’re considering purchasing it next time we need a new couch.

    • Anon

      We have a spare bedroom we use as both a “TV” room and a guest room. Over the years we’ve had two different pull out sofa beds that our guests reported were extremely uncomfortable. We have an additional issue that the doorway is narrow and at a right angle to the end of the hall, so in two ways difficult /impossible to get large furniture into.

      We finally switched to a futon. I know it sounds “dorm chic,” but we splashed out on an organic wool and cotton futon mattress and a frame that really passes as a mission-style couch.

      Guests have all raved about the mattress being really comfortable so far. I slept on it when sick and isolating from my husband and I agree.

      There’s a place here in the Bay Area called The Futon Shop and I got it there. I don’t know if it’s a national chain but there should be some place that sells high end organic futons somewhere near you. I encourage you to check it out.

      • Pompom

        We are in the exact same situation–dual use room, narrow weird hallways make it hard for bigger furniture–and the futon is the winner. We have a thick, super comfortable mattress on it and when people sleep in it, we add a memory foam topper under the mattress pad, under the fitted sheet. It’s SUPER comfortable, albeit a bit low.

    • The original Scarlett

      Stay away from pull out couches. The issue isn’t whether the bed is comfortable but whether the actual couch is, and IME, they never are. I’d just keep an air mattress around and if you don’t have a dedicated guest room, don’t plan on that many people staying with you anyway (ymmv, but after my 20s, this dropped off a lot in the absence of room and frankly, I was fine with that). The TL/DR, don’t sacrifice your everyday comfort for an occasional guest. Signed, someone who has made that mistake twice and finally learned

      • The original Scarlett

        PS – read your second paragraph and I would 100 go for a queen bed in your kiddo’s room – they’re not that big, and my niece loves sleeping in ours when she stays (age 8)

      • OP

        Fair. We don’t have a stream of people coming to stay though. It’s more our elderlyish parents and brother’s family that we legit want to be able to stay when they visit, and be comfortable.

        Unfortunately a queen bed in our daughters room would be way too big. Even a full I’m not sure I’d want to do but was willing to at least entertain/measure for.

        • The original Scarlett

          That’s still worth a shot, that’s about all the room you get on a pull out couch anyway – I’m just so over pullouts and recently replaced ours with a regular one because the day to day comfort was too irritating! So you’re hitting me with a salty topic :)

    • Anokha

      We had the CB2 Lubi sofa bed, which we topped with a $100 pillow top cover. Our 60 something parents found it to be very comfortable when visiting.

    • Anon

      We got a murphy bed with a sofa front (wall sofa bed) for our office. The couch is great for occasional use but I wouldn’t make that my main couch. (I sat working on it for two months full time in the spring until my desk got delivered, which was about my limit.) The bed is super comfy for our elderly relatives when they visited in the past – feels just like a real bed with the Casper mattress we put on ours. Our model is from BredaBeds and has bookshelves on the side, so it looks like a nice built in when the bed isn’t in use.

    • Anonymous

      Look at American Leather sofas. We have one in a guest room/office and really like it.

  13. Anon

    Repost from weekend thread in case anyone has input-experiences with above ground pools? Total PIA to maintain/liability/fun? It would be a freestanding smaller 15’x52” with a ladder that has a locking roll-down cover etc and would be around $8,000 total with electrician costs etc. Not the most aesthetically pleasing thing in the world, but it’s a fairly inoffensive one and an in-ground one is out of the question due to yard space/$.

    • Anon

      I had one growing up and I absolutely loved it. Lots of great memories spending time with my family in it.

      • Anon

        Awesome, thank you for sharing.
        My kids are tweens, and I’m anticipating that “normal” life won’t be happening for potentially a long time and am hoping this provides some enjoyment.

    • Anon

      My parents have one and it’s great, to be honest. Not as fancy as an in-ground but a whole heck of a lot cheaper and you could feasibly resell it.

      • Anon

        Great to hear! Do they find maintenance fairly easy? We are in the Northeast, but with global warming I feel like potential swimming season has extended into September/October,

    • Anonymous

      I just learned that something called a stock tank pool is a thing. I’m anti-above ground pools but these are cute and WAY cheaper.

      • Anon

        Interesting. I will check out stock tank pools. What makes you anti-above ground pool? It def. feels like there is SO much more room to design then in a more aesthetically pleasing way (like an Airstream vs. a basic camper) but it’s been interesting to explore my own potential classist response to them. Like, in a surrounding, lower-cost town, everyone seems to have an above-ground pool, a camper and a trampoline.

        • Airplane.

          Oof, you are making me confront some deep seeded classist responses to above ground pools, campers and trampolines for sure. In my mind all those things are hideous and I’ve never have any of them at my house. This is like how I’ve done a 180 on Guy Fieri – most of my negative reactions to him, his persona and his shows were classist. He does so much for the community, esp in the face of hypocritical prosperity-gispel BS religious leaders in post – disaster areas.

          • Anon

            Totally-I grew up upper-middle class (huge, tasteful home, trips to Europe etc.) but my family was unhappy and now am middle/lower-middle class in a small, modest home but my children are happy. It’s interesting to note just how many class signifiers are based in consumerism (aesthetics, cars, clothing.) While I still very much read and consume intellectual information that may be coded as “upper middle-class”, I’m finding that I’m loosening up re: what I consider “acceptable” as I’ve realized it’s mostly based in pretension/matching peers vs. what’s actually enjoyable. For example, campers and above-ground pools are normally derided somewhat as in poor taste but are a hot commodity now during physical distancing and that they are hard to come by.

        • Anon

          Which are pretty small-stock tank pools? The one we are considering getting is 15’ x 52”. Could’ve gotten a bigger one, but small yard.

        • Anon

          No, there are big ones that would fit 10 adults comfortably on floats. I had a giant round one growing up.

          OP – I was in the Northeast too and maintenence wasn’t too bad. I’d skim and vacuum as a young teen as part of my chores. My dad was a chemist and enjoyed balancing the chlorine / shock but it was really easy to test and adjust. The pump tended to require some maintenance every few years.

          The biggest issue was winterizing at the end of the season and opening it at the start. You could even hire someone to do it for you.

          • Anon

            Thank you for the info! Worst case scenario, it will be our science curriculum if school is virtual again (gah I really, really hope it isn’t.)

    • Anon

      I think you should pull the trigger. You can afford it now and it will be up and useable much faster than a built in pool would be.

      It’s July in two days. Quit hemming and hawing and get moving!

    • Anonymous

      Can you actually get one? I live in an upper class suburb of Boston where above ground pools are not normally very common but they are in high demand right now and the wait is months!

      I think the reasons they are high demand near me is because if/when things return to normal you can get rid of it ;). My neighbor just put in an ungrounds pool. It was $150k and 2 months of work (they had to dig a well too).

    • anon

      Doooo it! And if you want to get REALLY fancy, check out Pinterest for all sorts of pictures of how people have customized their above-ground pools with decks and landscaping!

    • Anonymous

      I despise above-ground pools for many reasons, but I would totally buy one right now if our HOA would permit it. I think it would be more fun and user-friendly if you built a deck around it, or at least on one side, so you could sit on the side and dangle your feet in, have a clean place for towels, get in without climbing up the ladder, etc.

      I’d also check with your insurance company and figure out how you will secure the pool against unauthorized access.

      • Anon

        I think we’re going to skip the deck because we already have a large deck in place and I like the idea of being able to remove/lock the pool ladder to prevent access. But will definitely landscape with some plants/grasses and maybe small stones surrounding.

  14. Anon

    I’m considering getting a Dyson cooling purifier fan for my small one bedroom apartment. Should I get the desk version (with a cool circle shape head) or the long and narrow standing tower version? The desk version seems like something I can move around the apartment. The tower might be more powerful but would be harder to move around. Also, I might bring it to the office after the end of the summer just for use as an air purifier. So maybe the desk one makes more sense?

    • Walnut

      We have the tall standing version and it is super easy to move around. I wouldn’t let that be a detracting factor.

  15. Anon

    Anyone else come to terms with the fact that you’re not disciplined enough to use credit cards? I always try to justify usage saying “points” etc., but am honestly realizing that I end up getting into stupid debt for clothing, etc. that I don’t even keep half of the time. I feel ashamed about it, but am realizing it’s best just to not have access to them.

      • Anon

        Agreed, because unfortunately I think you do need credit cards for emergencies and building credit, so unfortunately getting rid of them completely probably isn’t ideal if that’s what your suggesting. Could you lower limits? My understanding is that’s not ideal for your credit, but neither is a bunch of debt on them so…

        FWIW I don’t believe points are ever a good reason to buy something. They are a nice bonus for what you would have bought anyway. I’m sure there are rare exceptions for some people that really spend time on this topic and are super savvy, but my guess is that is very rare.

        • AnonMom

          You don’t actually need a credit card for building credit. I have never had a true credit card (just credit-branded debit cards from my financial institution) and have a credit score above 800.

    • Anon

      I was a bit like that in my 20s. I switched to an American Express card that I had to pay off every month and it really helped me get my sh1t together.

      It seems like all the prolific posters here love to pat themselves on the back about how super perfect they are at handling money, but I guarantee you that you are not alone.

      You have to address why you’re buying stuff. Is it your hobby? I used to go shopping as “therapy” for stress. I had to really acknowledge what I was doing and find other ways to deal with stress, like drinking – KIDDING – like cooking and playing music and taking walks outdoors. Figure out what your triggers are for needless shopping and try to make a plan for what you will do next time you find yourself doing it.

      • Anon

        Thanks, all. I 100% agree it is an issue rooted in impulse control (I have ADHD)/could use some therapy re: why buying clothing is how I often try to make myself feel better/acceptable, but more so curious if anyone else has had similar challenges and successfully stopped getting into consumer debt. As much as it raises my hackles re: being an independent woman, I’ve given my spouse my cc’s for the time being to maintain my credit line/if needed for an emergency. But, I suppose my point is that I’ve finally realized that akin to a true alcoholic not being able to have “just one glass of wine”, I can’t carry a credit card around in my wallet.

        • Go for it

          Consider attendance at Debtors Anonymous. It obviously deals with debt; however, offers outstanding strategies for compulsive spending. Much of the literature is on the website for perusal,

        • Anonymous

          You’re not alone. I’ve been paying off CC debt for 5 years. There’s a light at the end of the tunnel. When I get there and shake off some of the shame, maybe I’ll post back here in detail. But until then I keep it quiet, keep paying, and am surprised to find how many people are quietly doing the same. You’re not alone.

      • Tired

        One (probably childish) way that has helped me deal with buying too much stuff is to take a habit I should do (like going to sleep on time or not eating junk food or exercising) and say that if I do that 5 or 10 times in a row, I can buy a $15 thing. It doesn’t make me dependent on anything, just a little gamification in life

    • anonshmanon

      I’d say if not using credit cards works better for you, then make that change! More power to you for it.

    • anon

      I agree that credit cards are necessary for establishing good credit and for emergencies. However, you can set things up so that you just pay a few bills on them and don’t use them for shopping, etc.

      As far as points go, I’ve moved toward credit cards with cash back instead of points. It’s much easier to think about purchases in concrete terms. If I’m not going to buy something for $50, I’m also not going to buy it for $47.50 (5% cash back) or $49 (2% cash back). I also believe that most people will come out ahead with a free or low-fee card with a pretty generous cash back system instead of points. Several banks offer 2% cash back on all purchases. Target and Amazon have cards with 5% cash back. The American Express Blue Cash Preferred offers 6% cash back on groceries and certain streaming services and 3% cash back on gas and transit (but has a $95 annual fee).

    • Anonia

      I’m similar to you, and I have one with a low limit that stays at home in a drawer. The number is not saved on my devices, but the card is accessible in an emergency. Impulse purchases can be a problem for me, particularly when bored or stressed, but in the last few years I’ve made a point of NOT going to places like TJ max, DSW, etc just to get out of the house. I try and only shop when I have an actually need for something and try and stick to a list. Covid has made impulse online shopping worse so I’m working on that now. Our consumer culture makes it seem like a never ending battle to avoid debt.

      • Anon

        Thank you for sharing this. It’s helpful to hear, and something I really want to work on because my impulsive/compulsive shopping feels so at odds with my environmental values and generally makes me feel gross about myself. Striving towards healthier habits.

    • Anonymous

      I control it by having only one card with a relatively low limit ($10K) even though I get constant offers to up it. The card is set to auto deduct in full from my bank account every month and I use it like a debit card – I don’t buy something unless I have the cash. I build a ton of points this way. Almost all my bills are on autobill to my credit card which then auto deducts from my bank account. I don’t think I even know how to make a manual payment against it.

      • Anonymous

        Adding that I have it saved online nowhere. It’s kept in my wallet, in my purse in the front hall closet. This makes online shopping a step more difficult when I actually have to get up and physically go get the card to buy something vs just clicking ‘buy’.

        • CountC

          Funny story – I started memorizing my card numbers to shop in class in law school and I kept up the habit for two of them (it’s been 12 years since learning that “trick”)!

    • Anon

      Yeah, I’m totally with you. Which is why my personal finances have always felt like two steps forward one step back. I’ve recently started to use my debit card for everything, even though I won’t get the miles! But it’s helping me pay down the credit card balances without adding to them.

    • Anon

      I thought of another mental strategy. Cash only. So you withdraw $200 every so often (with limits on how you do this) and can only use cash for impulse buys. When the cash is gone you’re SOL.

      The online version of this would be bank account linked PayPal or only using your debit card.

    • Anon

      This is about impulse control not the credit cards. CBT therapy would be a good way to address this issue.

    • Anon

      Cut up the credit cards and use debit only for a year or two. Then add a low limit card back into the mix after you’ve gotten used to spending on a budget.

    • Walnut

      I switched from store and airline miles credit cards to the straightforward Fidelity card that gives me 2% cash back and deposits it into an investment account. It’s not sexy, there are no incentives, and suddenly credit cards aren’t a game to me anymore, but simply a tool for paying for goods/services. I’m not tempted by double points, a revolving category, or spending too much so I can get a free plane ticket.

      I don’t use debit cards, personally, because I like a layer of separation between my cash on hand, but perhaps you could start a process where you pay off your credit card balance in full each week to make it feel a bit more like cash to you?

      • Anon

        This is an excellent idea. Also thanks re: Debtor’s Anonymous. I have been in therapy previously, but have been too ashamed to bring this up (I know, I know.) For some reason it would feel more palatable to me to discuss a hypothetical drinking problem. This just feels so…gross.

  16. Alone in Austin

    Hive – I was the one who re-connected with an ex from 22 years ago who lives 1200 miles away, and was going to vacation with him at a hotel for five days to see if the spark was still there. I indicated that I’m in my late fifties and don’t want to spend the last third of my life solo, and that I’d enjoy someone to go to plays, farmers markets, concerts, etc. One of you asked for an update so here goes: because of COVID and the fact our vacation was going to be in an epicenter, I delayed our reunion. In the meantime, he was arrested for his FIFTH(!) DWI and so will be spending the next several years in prison. He had told me he has been sober for a few years, but turns out he picked up his 4th DWI on Mother’s Day. Lessons learned: don’t ignore red flags, don’t go into a possible relationship feeling lonely and desperate, and something that looks like it’s not fair (COVID canceled my plans, waaaa!) can turn out to be the best thing. I am furious that he lied, and no, I’m not waiting for him to get out.

    • Anon

      Oh my goodness. Well, you dodged a bullet for sure. But a general life lesson is don’t go to a hotel for five days with someone you don’t know well.

    • Marie

      I am sorry to hear about this disappointment, but relieved for you that you did not wind up reuniting with him and entangling your life with his before everything fell apart. Try not to beat yourself up too harshly about the red flags. They can be especially hard to detect from the distance you were at, especially when you are in a place when you want things to work out so badly. I think I heard this here years ago and it always stuck with me: When you are looking at a situation through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.

      • Anonymous

        Gently, no, they weren’t hard to detect here, and maybe it’s worth exploring in therapy if the poster thought they were.

        • Anon

          I read it as he hadn’t told her about them. I think there’s a difference between a DUI 10+ years ago and a subsequent 10+ years of sobriety vs. getting one recently (that he clearly hadn’t told her about).

          • Marie

            That was what I thought as well. I must have missed some posts.

            Either way, I still have compassion for OP’s disappointment and hurt and I don’t think telling her she should have known better in this moment would be kind or helpful. We weren’t in the conversations she was, so I think it’s unfair to pass judgment. OP admits “lesson learned,” admits that her feelings came from a place of loneliness, and appears to be working to move forward. So once again, OP, I say I am sorry for what you are going through and I hope things turn around for you soon.

        • Airplane.

          Gotta agree. And separately, there were red flags of her own in how she was approaching this reconnection – over-romanticization of the “old flame” trope, letting her admitted loneliness and desperation guide her too much.

      • tesserae

        “”When you are looking at a situation through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags.”

        Or as a friend of mine once said, you see red flags, I see a parade!

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for the update. Glad you got the information you needed to move on without risking COVID. With all your interests and enthusiasm, you sound like great company & I hope you end up with a much better match. What’s next for you?

      • Alone in Austin

        OP here. I am going to wait a month or two to emotionally regroup and get those rose-colored glasses adjusted : ) and then I’m going to join up Meetup and maybe Match.com. I’ve never tried online dating but I’m willing to dip a toe in the water. Thank you everyone for your support. I really did dodge a bullet.

    • Anon

      I think your instincts were telling you something, which is why you reached out and posted here in the first place. You’re smart and you have good instincts!!

    • Amber

      Aw – so sorry it worked out that way but you are definitely better off knowing everything now before you invested even more time with him. Just because things didn’t work out this time doesn’t mean that they won’t next time. I would keep putting yourself out there to the extent that you can when things open back up and look better with Covid etc. You sound like a great person – keep pursuing your own interests in the meantime and keep your head up!

    • Anonymous

      I know what you’re referring to here, but why bother making this comment? It does nothing to make an announcement or start a conversation. It’s like you’re vaguebooking on the state of the world in the most insipid way … why?

      • anonshmanon

        sorrynotsorry if I felt that this morning’s supreme court decision was a big enough surprise to me that I wanted to simply share my excitement with people here. I know that there are a lot of developments grabbing our attention even just on this very morning, but given that a fair number of people were pretty sure that abortion rights were going to be curtailed by this supreme court, I thought it was noteworthy to this board of women (and many lawyers). You could have scrolled on by like everyone else did with more important stuff to do, but clearly you needed someone to scold, so you’re welcome.

        • Anon

          +1. When I saw your OP I went and read the news as I hadn’t heard about the decision. Anonymous at 2:31’s post is the annoying one. Thanks for sharing, OP! And to Anonymous at 12:31 – we don’t need an Official Board Policewoman – Kat already has moderators working.

        • Anonymous

          I’m just letting you know why everyone scrolled by — simply saying “wow” usually means you hate something and find it inappropriate. So you’re not conveying anything or at least not what you intend.

          • Anon

            Nah, “wow” means different things in different contexts. It doesn’t have to be snarky, and it was pretty clear what OP meant.

          • Anonymous

            It’s only “clear” if you presume that person is exactly the same as you

        • Anonymous

          I read it and I immediately knew what you were talking about and was right there excited with you.
          Not even a lawyer or in law.

  18. Alone in Austin

    Hive – I was the one who re-connected with an ex from 22 years ago who lives 1200 miles away, and was going to vacation with him at a hotel for five days to see if the spark was still there. I indicated that I’m in my late fifties and don’t want to spend the last third of my life solo, and that I’d enjoy someone to go to plays, farmers markets, concerts etc. One of you asked for an update so here goes: because of COVID and the fact our vacation was going to be in an epicenter, I delayed our reunion. In the meantime, he was arrested for his FIFTH(!) DWI and so will be spending the next several years in prison. He had told me he has been sober for a few years, but turns out he picked up his 4th DWI on Mother’s Day. Lessons learned: don’t ignore red flags, don’t go into a possible relationship feeling lonely and desperate, and something that looks like it’s not fair (COVID canceled my plans, waaaa!) can turn out to be the best thing. I am furious that he lied, and no, I’m not waiting for him to get out.

  19. Biglaw Pivot Advice

    I’m a foreign-educated Biglaw M&A midlevel (in my 6th year) who would like to pivot my practice area with the goal of staying a few more years in Biglaw but with a more (relatively) sane lifestyle. Currently, anything non-doc review (I did arbitration for awhile and doc review was…not a good fit. Even compared to due diligence) and non-due diligence sounds good, and I was thinking of switching to project financing or acquisition financing as adjacent areas that I could potentially pivot to. Fortunately I have a chance to attend a T14 LLM program on a full ride (remotely, with tuition and living expenses paid) this year, while taking some time off from current job to regroup.

    What courses would you recommend tp prepare for the pivot, or any thoughts on the broader picture / suggestions for different M&A adjacent areas I could look into? Capital markets and funds have been suggested to me, although I get bored easily with routine matters. I may decide to go in house later but have not found a position yet, and am happy to take 1-2 years’ cut in seniority in Biglaw to change firms or jurisdictions.

    • Anonymous

      Absent a desire to go into tax, I would not recommend a LLM. Work with a recruiter to lateral into a different firm and group.

    • AnonNYC

      What are you looking for as far as a ‘sane’ lifestyle? Do you mean no 70+hr weeks ever or just not constantly? Because I’ve done cap markets and acquisition financing at a couple firms and it was no more sane than my M&A colleagues. Funds, I’ve heard good things about, but also boring as heck. I wouldn’t take a year off of pay for an unrelated LLM, either, because when we hire laterals taking a pivot/shift, they need on-the-job training not more time in a degree program that frankly adds little value to their work product.

    • OP

      OP – thanks for the advice! I’m being fully funded and it coincides with DH’s schoolwork too. I’m generally looking for an area with less fire drills and drudgery (needing everythung ASAP) and more substantive work / negotiations. Although, I do realize that drudgery is probably the very nature of Biglaw itself…

    • Anon

      Gently, your LLM degree will be worth exactly nothing to any biglaw firm. And if you think you can move from one area of corporate (I am gathering you’re corporate) to another and only get a few years shaved off, you’re wrong. When you’re a 6th+, you should have client management skills that are impeccable, a lot of substantive knowledge of the law AND project management skills. Pivoting to a different area of the law means you likely lose 2/3 of those. A firm might take a chance on you, but your work product would need to be damn near impeccable and you’d need a mentor willing to really coach you through intricacies of new practice area, stat…or you will get complaints from clients and partners nearly immediately. At 6th year, firms are starting to track associates to partner track, and if you’re not a star, you’re going to get counseled out fast.

      And as for your plan to take a years haircut–think about what your explanation for any of this is going to be–I wanted to do an LLM (which is useless) because []. I loved my practice area Y before, but I wanted to switch to Z because []. None of these sound super-attractive in an interview!

      You really need to consider moving in-house right now. That’s how your life becomes more sane. And if you are an 8th+ year who’s not partner track, people perceive, rightly or wrongly, that you’re damaged goods or “too senior” for many in-house roles at the counsel/sr. counsel level.

      Gently, please rethink this plan. It’s wishful bananas. It has no bearing on reality.

  20. Anon

    First bumble message tips? I usually try to tailor it to his profile, but is there a phrase/theme you usually use? Also, tips on finding out political views? I have a filter for that, but I also accept a few profiles that don’t have the views listed. If he is conservative or doesn’t care about politics, then I’m out.

    • Anon

      I used to always send a first message that was funny and engaging, asking about something he mentioned in his profile or one of his photos, so he would know I had read his profile. Until I realized that putting in that much effort was stupid because 99% of men don’t reply or won’t ask thoughtful questions in return or can’t keep up a conversation at all.

      Good luck!

      • Anon

        OP – Ugh, same here. I guess this is what has led me to seek out advice, even though I know the problem isn’t me.

        • Tired

          I pick a slightly interesting question I don’t mind answering as well like “what was your favorite thing you did last week” and send it to everyone

          I need more questions like that though. Just to try and start a conversation

        • Anon

          The problem definitely isn’t you. Online dating is awful and most of the men on there are awful.

          Now I just stick to a generic opener like asking about their weekend.

    • Anne Anon

      I have a stock message I use for everyone unless something jumps out in his profile. I’m a relatively new resident in a big city filled with lots of transplants, so I ask “what brought you to [our city]? How long have you been here?” That often leads to a conversation about how much we love it here, fun things to do in our city, favorite restaurants, jobs/careers, etc… Usually pretty decent at jump-starting a conversation, but because it’s a generic question it takes zero thought from me. Feel free to steal it!

    • Clementine

      Lol – one of my friends always says “Hey – Long shot but, Did you have a brother named Mike who graduated from Big State School?’

      (Note: In the region we are in, like half the men in their 30’s are either named Mike or have a brother named Mike or a cousin named Mike or had a college roommate named Mike).

      She tells me it’s her most successful line to date. I think it’s hilarious because I know that she used to use a really tailored approach and she swears that changing her picture to one with her dog and using a generic throw-away line got more responses.

      • Anon

        Wow, I’ve never been more grateful to be married. It’s so depressing that a fake line like that would get more attention than a genuine comment about something in someone’s profile.

  21. Exhausted anon

    Mental health vent – I just can’t with confinement anymore. I know why we’re doing it, I wear a mask, I go out as little as possible. But I live in a studio apartment and I just can’t work like this. I miss my office, my double monitor, my printer, the ability to bounce ideas off my colleagues, the social aspect of being at the office, and the mental separation that comes with going to the office and being in a work mindset. I’m a sociable introvert who loves the occasional work from home day, so this has come as a surprise, but I’m going a little nuts and really having trouble focusing. The vast majority of my support system (including all of my immediate and extended family) lives in another country, which has never been an issue before because it was just a quick drive or plane ride away and I go back several times a year, but now I’m not sure when I will see them again? I feel trapped and exhausted and as someone who has always been low-key anxious, I think it’s spiraling a bit. I realize I have it pretty good overall – I have a well-paying job I can do from home, I’m confined with my boyfriend, I don’t have any kids to homeschool, I’m in good health and so are my loved ones so far. I have a week of vacation booked in July, but have never really been the staycation type (see:international family) and am not sure what to do to relax. Not sure what I’m looking for here, just commiseration – based on the posts above, I’m not alone in being at the end of my rope.

    • Anonymous

      Commiseration here. I’ve been doing the same and my spouse is very high risk. the indefinite nature of this is really starting to weigh on me when the first 12 weeks were actually going pretty well

    • Anon

      Same. I’m getting to a worse place mentally because I’ve social distanced like my life depends on it (because it does) and the constant visual reminders that so many don’t care enough to even wear a mask when they go party and to the gym and to the office and to the beach and to the pool is so draining and exhausting.

      • anon

        You hit the nail on the head, right here. I kind of hate other humans right now.

    • Anon

      So much commiseration, this is so hard. Is it possible to take daily walks or runs outside, preferably in nature? Zoom dates with family or friends? Expanding your bubble to include another friend who is social distancing? Yoga routine on Youtube (Yoga with Adriene is good)? Moving my desk so it looks out the one window in my studio to a courtyard and sky helped a lot, as did getting second monitor and ergonomic keyboard for home and spending some time sorking on the patio in sunlight.

    • Anonymous

      Why are you trying to not leave your apartment? Go outside for walks constantly. Go get take out. Picnic in a park. Don’t do a staycation- rent something not in Florida and drive there.

    • anonshmanon

      I’m sorry, it’s hard. I must have been living under a rock, because sociable introvert is new to me, but such a perfect description for us.
      Can you drive to your family on your vacation?

      • Concerned anon

        I’m a US citizen in Canada so I could technically drive into the US, but I would have to lock myself up for a strict quarantine upon return (not that big of a deal, but I’m worried that’s when my office will reopen partially – we have been instructed not to leave the country and I would hate to contaminate others) and my health insurance has completely discontinued US coverage so if I get COVID or even get hit by a car, I won’t get any coverage, which makes me really uncomfortable. I’ve considered doing it anyway, but right now I’m leaning towards no. I have family in Maine which would be the easiest drive (and my usual summer getaway), but Maine has strict quarantine rules so I basically would not be able to leave the house all week.

    • Anonymous

      Now that we’re kind of moving beyond thinking of this situation as temporary for a few weeks and extending longer, is there anything you can do to make it better long-term? We’re making our apartment as comfortable as possible by investing in office setups and storage solutions. These little projects keep us busy and have helped make our space more comfortable. Some of our neighbors have bought storage space. Everyone uses the walkways and grassy areas much more …

      It is difficult to feel like you’ve had a true break with staycations — maybe people have suggestions?

    • Anon

      Are you seeing your friends? That made a huge difference for me. Socially distanced walks, sitting in a park or someone’s backyard.

    • Anonymous

      Go for a walk outside everyday. Make a point to connect with at least one friend by text everyday. Find an Airbnb in the mountains, on a lake, at the beach – whatever your thing is and go hang out there for your week off.

    • Airplane.

      What can you fix now, on your own? Buy a monitor, buy a screen you can put up when the workday is over so it’s not staring you in the face. Text some friends for a distance walk or BYO park distance meal or drinks.

    • Anon

      Honey, do you have any friends in the burbs who have a yard and would be happy to include you in their “pod”? Like inviting you over for a socially distanced backyard BBQ?

      I invited a friend over this weekend for such a thing and she mentioned that even though it was a little chilly outside (Berkeley) she had no yard space of her own so it had been months since she’d been able to just chill outside. She’d gone on walks but it’s not the same as sitting in a lounge chair with a glass of wine on a sunny day.

      I felt really bad when she said that. She’s a good friend and I should have invited her over for some backyard time before now. We are just both super cautious people so it was my first socializing in a long time.

      I think you probably have friends who never thought to ask you to come over, but maybe you can be bold and ask them? If someone asked me, I’d be excited and flattered, and I would go into total mom mode.

    • Anonymous

      I completely understand. I now have a comfortable desk chair on order and bought a new printer. I also have a standing weekend call with a family member and have been reaching out to a different friend for a video chat each weekend. I have also been walking when the weather permits, getting some fresh air really helps.

  22. Part-time jobs?

    I was laid off back in March and, as you may expect, it is taking a while to find a new job. I’m really starting to stress out from the lack of income and the lack of structure or social interactions in my day. I ideally would like to find some kind of online part-time job to bring in a little money and give me something to do for part of my time. One of my friends suggested tutoring since I’ve led some educational programs in the past, but didn’t know of any companies to check out.

    Any recommendations for legitimate tutoring companies that may be looking for teachers? Or other ideas for a part-time job?

    • Anon

      Can you teach English on Italki if English conversation is something you would consider teaching? I took a few classes from “community teachers” who don’t have a license but who are native speakers in French and Chinese, and it was a wonderful experience. It might not pay too well at the beginning until you have a few reviews and lessons under your belt (I understand most people charge low rates to get to the number of lessons and reviews to attract more students, but if you can market special skills like law school prep or interview prep, resume editing, maybe that helps attract a more high-paying group of students? I’ve posted before but this is the French teacher whose profile and style I really liked, if ut helps to give you an idea: https://www.italki.com/teacher/3098183/french

      • Anon

        To add, some teachers teach to kids so it may be an option in addition to teaching foreign students. I believe Italki takes 15% of what you charge to students, but you can set your own hours and my teachers seemed to genuinely enjoy teaching. The platform makes it easy to resolve scheduling across different time zones, disputes re schedule with students, or no-shows (24 hour cancellation policy).

    • Anon

      Were you unable to get unemployment? If your lay-off was related to COV19, as so many are, you’d get the extra $600, AND it should be retroactive to March!

  23. Too soon to go?

    Looking for some suggestions on things to consider in the very lucky position I find myself in.

    I was an attorney in private practice for several years and doing well. As I reached mid-level, I made the decision to leave and went into a government relations role at a trade association within the industry in which I practiced. I’ve been in this job for 10 months and like it a lot. The work is interesting and certainly more low key than legal practice. Feedback is extremely positive and, after having had a rough go with two people in my role previously, they’re very happy to have me. Additionally, they’ve worked hard to protect our jobs and keep us on during the pandemic/economic struggles (we’re in an industry that is very impacted too).

    Last week I got a call from a contact in the industry. He is looking to hire a government relations lead for his company and wanted to see if I’m interested. I am. This is exactly the job I was hoping to move into after some time – meaning 2 to 3 years – at my current job. I’ll note, while our industry is impacted, this business is in a safer/growing segment, and I’ll certainly do my due diligence on this anyway.

    My concern is about jumping ship from my current job too soon. I think by time I get through the process, I’d ultimately be there a year.

    If it was a year from now, I’d go right away. Something about being only a year seems problematic. Thoughts? Things I should consider?

      • The original Scarlett

        +1 – timing is never perfect and when something great comes along, grab it. In the long run another year at anything makes no difference

    • anon

      I don’t think spending a year at a job is a problem if it’s obvious or easy to explain why you moved–a change in role, a promotion, pay, prestige, job security, etc. I also think many resume “issues” will be overlooked during the pandemic.

      So, yes, go for it!

  24. Anonymous

    I am moving into a gorgeous pre-war apartment, but the catch is that it doesn’t have A/C. Any recommendations for window A/C units that work well and are quiet? Is the dyson fan worth the hype?

    • Window AC

      Consumer Reports JUST reviewed window A/C units. Sorry I don’t remember which the leader was, but I remember the Kenmore was not recommended. You might check there.

    • Anon

      Hisense! Bought it from the local Lowes. It vents out the window but doesn’t “hang out”. The vent is flush with the screen. Works great. Super easy to install.

  25. Anon

    Why are we, as women, still so conditioned (maybe more like expected?) to be polite, gracious, courteous, [insert well mannered adjective]?

    I dumped a guy I really liked last night over something that became a dealbreaker for me. Any time I would raise a concern or want to have a discussion about something, he would get extremely defensive about it, no matter the topic. Last night, he said, “you’re on the offensive, so what the hell else am I supposed to do?” Um, how about have a constructive conversation like two adults?

    I’m upset, will miss him, don’t regret ending it, but somehow feel a little sorry about it? Like maybe I didn’t explain myself well enough? Then the rational side of me points out that this issue was coming up over and over again and I have nothing to be sorry about, we weren’t compatible, end of story. He just made me feel like I ended it so abruptly over something small, but it wasn’t small to me. Ugh.

    • Anonymous

      This isn’t a global question – women don’t have to accept this. He was a d*ck and you dodged a bullet.

    • E

      Sorry to hear that, OP, but sounds like you very much did the right thing. If it was a big deal to you, then it was a big deal, period. I joke that marriage is having the same conflict over and over, so if your ex wasn’t able to have productive discussions about things, then that was just setting your relationship up to fail at a later date. His behavior sounds deflective to me (knowing only your side, of course)–just a way to avoid having uncomfortable discussions. Big red flag. One of the things that sold me on my now spouse while we were fresh into dating, was that he showed courage and willingness to have uncomfortable discussions early on. Hopefully you can find a partner that can have the tough convos with you. We all have to have them–its how you have them that matters. Remote hugs to you while you grieve the loss of the relationship–hope you get some ice cream and solace.

    • Airplane.

      What the hell is he supposed to do? Uh, listen, comprehend, respond, be open to constructive conversation? What the hell does he do in the rest of his life? His relationships with his family or close friends, his workplace to his boss or direct reports. HELLO, are you a grown man or are you not. You think the only path when the woman you are dating brings up a concern or issue is to be on the defensive? This relationship is not a pick-up basketball game.

    • Vicky Austin

      “It wasn’t small to me.” Repeat ad nauseum. You did all the right things.

    • Anon

      You don’t need to be with someone who couches every relationship discussion as a battle with offense and defense that he must win at all costs. He sounds incredibly immature.

      Next!

    • Senior Attorney

      There is no “explaining it well enough” for a lot of people. You did the right thing. Brava and onwards!

      • Anonymous

        Yeah, I think it’s common to have thoughts of “if only I could explain myself better” when you’re a victim of gaslighting — it traps you in an unhealthy cycle while the person gaslighting you does understand your position but doesn’t want to acknowledge it & does want to belittle you/make you feel crazy.

    • Marie

      You have nothing to be sorry over, nor do you have to “convince him” that your reasons for breaking up with him were valid or legitimate. If it was a dealbreaker for you, that’s enough of a reason not to date him anymore and you do not owe him any apology for that.

    • Sks

      The problem isn’t that you were conditioned to be polite, gracious, courteous. The problem is that this specific guy wasn’t.

      You don’t have to lose your good character because someone else shows you their bad character. You did the right thing. He didn’t.

  26. Sloan Sabbith

    Item review: I got the Nordstrom cashmere blend cardigan from a couple weeks ago. Super soft. However, it runs big- I am always, always a medium but a small would have been better here. It’s pretty loose. I’m keeping it, because it’s perfect WFH wear but would get a smaller size if I was wearing it to work.

  27. New Name goes here

    My office chair is super old (15+yrs, but never used much until now)….time for a replacement.
    I am realizing I will be at home for the long haul…officially until Sep but realistically will be much longer than that.
    Between working & some sedentary hobbies, I am often sitting in this chair 15+ hours a day.

    What is your best recommendation? I don’t mind spending some money for a decent chair — maybe $300-500??

  28. Please Help

    Part of my job is keeping up to date on industry development and international news. I’m great at my job and whenever I see something I send an email to my team linking the development along with a short analysis about how it impacts our files and the global context. My boss seemingly never reads these emails and oftentimes days after I made my initial email/analysis will send an entirely new email thread to the whole team asking something along the lines of ‘have you guys seen this, we need to get on this’. When this happens I usually just forward my original email to my boss. Unfortunately this happening over and over undermines my authority to the team (I am the SME on the file). When I discuss it with my boss the excuse is they they forgot or didn’t see the original email and apologize. I could understand if it happened once or twice but this has happened 9 times so far. I don’t want to be salty but like this is rude AF right? I’m not over reacting to be pissed about this?

    • No Problem

      Maybe suggest that next time they see something they are tempted to send to the whole team, just send you an email first to see if you’ve seen it already? Then you can respond, yes, here’s the email I sent a week ago, or yes, working on my analysis right now, or no, haven’t yet but will do the analysis today. Or if they do it again, instead of sending your original email to just your boss, send it around to the whole team again who your boss emails, and say hey boss’s email is referencing this thing that I sent you all last week in which I said we need to move on it, and so far we have done X, Y, and Z.

      Hopefully other people are seeing boss’s emails and know they have already seen something from you on it, so it’s more of an eyeroll reaction that the boss hasn’t read their email than a “Please Help should be the one sending this out, she’s clearly slacking.”

    • Anon

      Maybe it’s a sign that email isn’t the best way to track things like this – it seems like your messages are getting lost in the shuffle.

    • Anon

      No, it’s not rude. He’s your boss so I think you need to be the one adapting here if you don’t like the way this is going. It’s also going to come across as defensive and petty to reply to his emails with the ones you sent out. But really I’d just let this roll off your back.

      • Please Help

        My boss is repeatedly implying publicly to the whole team that I’m not on top of my responsibilities when I clearly am. How is that okay?

        • Anon

          You need to adjust to your boss’s behavior, not the other way around. That is just the way the world works.

        • Anon

          Are they doing it to undermine you specifically, or is the boss trying to be helpful when they see things and shoots something off real quick so it doesn’t get forgotten?

          • Please Help

            There is no maliciousness. My boss is a nice person just very…dense? Basically no situational awareness and does things which are a bit socially daft on accident.

      • CountC

        + .5 – I think it depends on your relationship with your boss. My boss has done this a few times and I usually send him a quick Skype note to check his email for XYZ on blah blah blah date. My boss and I have a great relationship however, and he truly feels badly that he missed my email. I know that he gets hundreds of emails a day and I don’t take it personally so it’s not a big deal.

        Unless your team has another reason to think your boss is somehow undermining you as the SME, I woudn’t worry about that aspect of it. Presumably, they saw your original email and are either also redirecting your boss or using the information you already provided. I doubt they would redo your work, right?

    • Anon

      I feel like knowing your boss’s style and working within it is part of being great at your job. You are great at your job by your own standards, but you are missing at managing your manager, which is a professional reality for all of us.

      Knowing he is not going to read your emails, maybe ask for 1/2 hour a week where you go over your “top ten” issues of the week. If it’s a light week on new issues maybe it’s the top three, or maybe you cancel the meeting. You have to accept that he is not going to read every one of your emails. Your job is to pay attention to these things, but presumably his job has a different scope, and your work is just a slice of it.

      But you do have to meet your boss where he lives. I personally love writing technical papers that delve into issues in my field, but I also know a good 50% of my list is not going to read it, and another 25%+ will only skim it. So, bullet points of important issues up-front, and if you’re attaching something to an email, make sure your main points are in the email in a very non-wordy format, because a lot of people aren’t going to open the attachment.

      It’s not necessarily rude, it’s just the reality of current corporate environments where we are all asked to handle too much with too few resources, and we all get hundreds of emails a day.

    • Coach Laura

      Please help – Managing up is always hard and you can’t count on it working. I doubt your subordinates think less of you.

      Two things – When you send your first email, follow up in the body of the message or with a second message stating that a, b and c are your takeaways from this article/paper/regulation and x, y and z are the next steps for your team, or changes that your team needs to make or take into consideration. Ask for feedback from the team and that each team member consider what changes need to be made and reply. Then follow up with a message to the whole team about the conclusions that everyone has settled on, your direction to the team about a, b and c. Ask if people have questions. You are the SME and are interpreting and implementing – if needed – the new info. And more than one message might increase the chances that your boss will see it while being an effective teaching tool for your team. Obviously, you don’t want to inundate his email box with 25 messages when one or two will do.

      After you’ve gotten feedback and issued instructions to the team, forward that conclusion email to your boss with an action item, like “let’s discuss this in our weekly/monthly management meeting” or “I’ve implemented these steps and these steps will allow us to trouble shoot/prevent problems/be more effective in a, b and c.” Ask boss to let you know if he has any additional input.

      These steps will allow you to remain visible as SME to your team and make sure that everyone is on the same page.

  29. Anonymous

    Hive, I need a gut check. When a single man sends you a message asking if you would “wanna hang out sometime”, they’re not asking platonically, right? This used to happen occasionally when I was just in a relationship, but not since I’ve been married. A guy I went to college with but was not friends with then, and haven’t really talked to or seen since (10 years ago) messaged me out of the blue and then seemed offended when I pointed out I was married.

    • Anon

      I say this as someone who is 100% single, has never dated, and is asexual: Nope, not platonic.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think that necessarily means it’s not platonic. I’ve had a lot of male friends over the years who’ve sent me texts like this and it was platonic.

    • Anonymous

      How did you know he was single? Where did he message you?

      Maybe he’s unemployed & casting a wide networking net.

    • Anonymous

      Sure, I’d love to hang out. I can’t wait for you to meet my husband.

    • Anon

      I have a bunch of guy friends and am a big advocate of being friends with the opposite sex even if married, but this specific situation? Nope, not platonic…or at the very least weird and avoid. Plus when it was implied that this was what you thought, him not having the awareness to think “oh I could see how you thought that” but instead getting mad? Seriously WTF.

      The factor that makes me say this: your point that even during the time you could have been friends you weren’t. If you are job networking you are adding more context and not using words like “wanna” in the messaging.

      • OP

        Yeah, I feel like he told on himself when he got offended. I have definitely had men say “oh I didn’t mean it like that! Your SO is definitely welcome to join, I would love to meet him!” etc

    • Anon

      Probably not platonic. It depends on context. If you were actually friends before and he wanted to reconnect, I think I would view it differently than someone you barely know reaching out this way. A request to “hang out” feels really weird if he’s looking for a professional connection. I feel like in that circumstance he would ask for a coffee meetup or a phone call, and make it clear that he’s job-hunting. But, full disclosure, I’m not a huge believer in friendships between straight men and women. Whenever a guy has asked me to hang out one-on-one, he was interested in more than friendship (and I’m not saying that to brag, I’m not super attractive or someone who got a ton of attention from men when I was single).

  30. EB

    Vicarious home shopping help? We just moved and for the first time, have a dedicated home office that is RIGHT off the entryway into our house. We need a desk, with storage, so I have been looking at what you would call an “executive desk.” Our style tends to be a mix of MCM, minimalist, with light colored wood and pops of color in southwestern tones. We buy a LOT of older West Elm, Pottery Barn, etc. used on Marketplace and craigslist. We want a desk that is made of real wood, and so have been perusing Marketplace and craigslist daily, but since everyone needs a desk these days, the pickings are slim. Am I being silly to think I can find a real wood desk for less than $800 without buying it used? Probably, right? But if not, I would love to know where. I have looked through all the usual sites and haven’t found anything yet.

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