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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
When I transition from work-at-home to work-at-work outfits, I suspect that I’m going to suffer from some choice paralysis. “You mean I need to pick out bottoms, a top, and a blazer/sweater?” After three months of only caring about dressing my top half, this is going to be challenge.
I have no plans to go full Zuckerberg, but dresses with sleeves are an easy way to put together an outfit without too much work. Just add some shoes (real shoes, not slippers, yikes) and jewelry and you’ll be good to go.
This dress is $635 and available in sizes 14W–20W. Decimale Faux Wrap Dress
A more affordable alternative comes from Leota — it's on sale for $41 at Nordstrom Rack. And B Collection by Bobeau has an option in straight sizes — it's on sale for $61 at Bloomingdale's and comes down to $43 at checkout. (They're having their Friends & Family Sale right now, which is worth a click.)
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anonymous
I’d definitely be on Team Leota for a wrap-style dress. You could get 10 for the price of this one.
QUESTION re coronavirus. Can you be + for antibodies and yet have an active case? I would think that + for antibodies doesn’t rule out being currently sick (you could already be producing antibodies, perhaps b/c you are asymptomatic or presymptomatic or have been exposed and then exposed again and got sick). That’s just the logic talking — not a doctor.
Our state is spiking (but it was really well managed before Memorial Day) and people seem to be done with the idea that masking is for anyone but food service and health care workers.
S in Chicago
Not sure. But CDC recommends mask wearing even for those who have recovered, as it is not known whether antibodies offer immunity. It also recommends those who have recovered and are subsequently exposed to someone positive should self-isolate just as if you were someone who had never had COVID-19.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html
Anon
Yes it is possible. Your body may still be fighting off the virus as it produces antibodies, or may have antibodies but not enough to fully fight it off. Or you may be asymptotic.
Anon
Generally by the time you produce antibodies you would be far enough into the illness so as not be infectious. You’re most infectious right before you get sick and in the first few days of illness – by the time you’ve had symptoms for a week you’re very unlikely to be infectious even if you still feel miserable (this is true of the flu and other viruses too). That said, if we want to beat this thing, everyone should assume they have the virus at all times and behave accordingly (physical distancing, face masks, etc).
Anonymous
If I had the virus I would not leave my home at all. I would have everything delivered. I would leave my trash outside my apartment door for someone else to dispose of. In no way can I “live like I have the virus” indefinitely.
Anonymous
The issue with this is that the illness seems to last in some people for a very long time– like 3-4 weeks seems common. There have also been reported cases where people have flare ups for 2-3 months (and probably longer). Most of these people feel sick but may be well enough to resume an office job or go to the store, etc.– the question is whether they are still infectious.
Anonymous
OP here — thanks all! I am on #TeamMask anyway. I think that without a daily swap / antibody test, one data point in time is . . . not very meaningful. [En Masse, perhaps for public health. Not so for one person.]
Anonymous
I think that my original musing was: if I am + for antibodies — perhaps they are so new that I am also still sick (vs something I got at a conference in late Feb). I am donating blood soon and they are screening for antibodies (no doubt to gather + plasma from those who are + and for research generally, which I’m fine with). I’m curious but have no known exposures other than via planes / conferences / being in big cities with early community spread in 1Q2020.
back to big law
I was the poster from a few months ago who was diagnosed with Covid. I finally got cleared by the doctors in mid-May (so 5 weeks in and out of the hospital and 1 week of waiting time for 3 new Covid tests to all come back negative). My doctors absolutely do not know whether my antibodies will give me immunity from future Covid, some type of protection for some period of time, or really anything. I still wear a mask everywhere; I don’t go to restaurants; I still have my groceries delivered. I also have an ugly new accessory of an oxygen tank on a rolling cart because Covid left me with a 20% reduction in lung capacity. They don’t know if it’s temporary or permanent. Bottom line: this is too new and still evolving for the medical professionals to give a confident answer about anything.
anonshmanon
Thank you for sharing this.
Anon
I hope your breathing eventually returns to normal. I’m so sorry to hear about your struggles.
Kat
Thank you for sharing. I hope that you are able to return to normal in a decent amount of time.
Anon
I’ve been torn all weekend about whether to report my employer to the city tip line for violating our state and county regulations by reopening at limited occupancy. No reopening is allowed for us because our business is telework-ready, but my boss is bringing back 25% of our workforce today (volunteers only, none with kids) because some people don’t like WFH. Safety measures aren’t set/published and are based on “volunteer preference” (??). I am painfully aware that whatever loose measures they adopt now will apply to all of us when we actually reopen. We are a small company so it’s not that many people, but we share a building and restroom with other businesses and all the volunteers except one take public transit. There’s a good chance my boss will guess/know it was me who made the complaint since I emailed him previously with some concerns about safety, all of which were totally ignored. I also think he is likely to just get vindictive and defensive rather than feel chagrined.
I’m so torn – should I even bother “snitching” when I’m not personally being asked to come back? Will innocent colleagues get in trouble? I want to protect public health and also give the city information about how many businesses are in violation, but I don’t want to blow anything out of proportion. I know others have posted similar issues – WWYD?
Anonymous
I would say nothing. I’m not in a position to be risking my continued employment.
Anonymous
I’d report it now. If you wait until you’re called in, it will be even more obvious it was you.
Anon
Report them. We let corporations get away with breaking the law too often.
Anonymous
I’d report after they reopen but before you are called in. Once they reopen, it at least opens the possibility that a member of the public or an employee from a business that shares the facilities reported it.
If your boss questions you that they were reported, you don’t care about the reopening, you only sent that email when you were worried that you would be called in. If it’s just volunteers you don’t see the problem or why it would be reported.
Anon
I feel like I would leave it alone since it’s opt-in, even though I realize that it endangers the entire community when people take on unnecessary risk (which is why the state and county regulations are what they are).
There’s so much inconsistency right now. A university near me has announced indoor social distancing guidelines requiring 3 feet of distance. That’s half the number I’ve seen recommended everywhere else!
Anon
(That answer is just a feeling, not a rational/strategic response. I would be worried about retaliation, and I would not expect that a safe environment would be a likely outcome of reporting, at least not for long. In my own context, I’m thinking of starting to apply to remote jobs in the hope that I can get one before I’m called back to the office.)
Anonymous from 10:45
I’d call and just be straightforward & give the facts. You can’t control what happens after that. Maybe your company will say it needs people on site & your local government will say okay. But you aren’t going to make any headway with your boss, and if he’s going to get angry let it be at someone else (state/county). I don’t know what you mean by asking if innocent colleagues will get in trouble, but that’s not your responsibility and speaks to a wider workplace problem. Just make the call, provide as much factual information/documentation as possible, and then focus your energy on looking for a new job. Don’t waste a lot of time on this as it isn’t under your control. Do what you can and move on to things you are more empowered about, including job searching, developing an argument for you personally working from home, thinking about safety measures you can take if you do have to go back to the office, etc.
Lana Del Raygun
Drop that dime for sure, except maybe if your boss will retaliate against you in a major way. (I think it’s fairly likely that you’re not the only who emailed him, fwiw.)
Anon
I’m not sure if there’s any protection against retaliation, though…another factor making this decision hard.
Anonymous
Can you report it anonymously? Are reports confidential? Can you make a fake email address or ask a friend to call for you (as if she’s doing it independently)? And feign ignorance at work.
Anon
I’m not OP, but I might do this for my own similar situation – find out if it’s anonymous first, then act.
Anon
Do nothing- unless you are in a position that you are okay losing your job.
Anonymous
Well, risking job loss or risking lives unnecessarily …
Anon
Are the chances good that they’ll comply more than superficially?
Anon
If it doesn’t impact you (yet) maybe try and see how things go, but if you feel strongly to report, do so, but document everything and be prepared to be fired suddenly, and potentially consider counsel to represent you for a whistleblower/retaliation lawsuit in some form.
Anonymous
I need some client management advice. I’m a biglaw litigation (junior) partner. I’m the point person to interface with the client about my cases – for my own clients and matters I’m running for other partners. Over the past year or two, a couple of different (male) clients have expressed that they want me to be more aggressive. When I’ve spoken to my (male) mentors, they all say I’m doing everything right substantively, it’s about making the client feel like you’re an aggressive person. One mentor in particular is great at backing me up – he’s a physically imposing man with a deep voice and clients seem to have a lot of confidence in him. Has anyone else experienced this? What can I do to prevent this issue from coming up in the future?
Anonymous
I dress slightly more masculine/serious for dealing with these types of clients – think dark suit with solid color blouse instead of light grey suit and floral blouse.
Also, pick 4-5 more ‘aggressive’ phrases to make a habit of throwing into the conversation “we’re not going to let them get away with that”, “we’ll get them on that because …” instead of “the law is in our favor because….” etc
O
i wear louboutins with spikes on them (black spikes on black with a black suit). it’s a very aggressive look lol.
Anonymous
I think that that is a bit too Moira Rose. Costume-y vs speaking with innate authori-tai.
Anonymous
work for me but ymmv.
Anonymous
My husband has this problem. When he means “Do X” and he is in a position to command “Do X” he will dither and beat around the bush about “Do you want to do X” or making a monologue about how it would be good to do X. Dude: just give the direction that people Do X. It is not that hard.
Perhaps you are using asking language when you should be diving direction? Or just not being direct?
Anon
Try recording yourself speaking to someone as though they were your client (maybe a colleague can play the role of the client and ask questions). You’ll learn a lot about your tone and phrases you may be using that could be more precise or forceful. But also some of this is probably just bias and you can’t change how you are perceived.
TheElms
I think you probably just need to subtly tweak your verbal presentation style. Do you tend to give balanced evaluations of situations? Assuming so, I would try to cut that down and focus more on the option client is likely to choose. When discussing strategic decisions/choices with the client do you present the options first and then say which one you recommend? If so, I would reverse the order. Present the chosen option first and then discuss the options you didn’t choose (if needed, it may suffice to just state their are 2 alternatives and list them). If you have a tendency to point out when opposing counsel is being reasonable (often happens if your client is demanding or unreasonable) I would stop doing that as much as possible and focus on whatever ways opposing counsel is being unreasonable.
Ann Mallen
This. Excellent advice.
NYNY
I’d curse more.
It sounds like a joke, but in traditionally male businesses where aggression is viewed positively, cursing is used for bonding. You have to be convincing when you do it, but if you’re holding back on colorful language to appear professional, now is the time to drop it.
aBr
This has happened more than once to me… client accidentally curses in front of me and then says something about I shouldn’t say that in polite company, to which I typically respond “I don’t give f%^* if you say [curse word],” everyone has a good laugh and things become more cordial. So, NYNY may be on to something.
You can take the woman out of the South but . . .
Be careful with this though – right or wrong many people will be offended if a women curses who would not care if it was a man. Especially Southern men! This is very regional. I have noticed that people in (for example) New York are a lot more likely to curse in a professional setting that people in the south or midwest. And even more than in California.
Signed – a southern woman who does not cuss and prefers that other people not do it in my presence although I 100% recognize that is a byproduct of my upbringing. And who really really does not like it when people take the Lord’s name in vain and has been known to ask them to please stop.
Anne
I think this is sexist BS and male associates aren’t being told to grow a set of soft social skills that you may be employing so eff em.
anon
Any recommendations in Chicago for an ophthalmologist/optometrist who’s good with severe astigmatism? Ideally within the loop, but would be willing to travel for someone great. Just moved to the area and need a new prescription. Thanks
Anon
Yes – Illinois Eye ( University of Illinois ) 30 N Michigan, Dr Tim McMahon optometrist and Dr Jose De La Cruz ophthalmologist. I have keratoconus, severe astigmatism. Hope this helps.
buzzkill
Eye Society on Ohio Street is great
Anonymous
Ugh. I have hurt a friend’s feelings. Totally unintentionally and we’ll get through it I just feel bad.
ELS
That’s a hard place to be.
Try to do something kind for yourself today, and avoid beating yourself up, in addition to the usual making up with the friend list of things.
It’s hard in the best of times, but even harder when things are still weird globally. Give yourself some extra grace today.
anon
Guilt is an uncomfortable feeling, but drawing from it the motivation to fix things and move forward (as you are doing) is much more effective in the long term than bottling it up in defensiveness. You are doing the right thing.
Anon
I hope everyone had a nice and safe weekend. I am curious whether there are any updates from the poster who was planning to leave her law firm shortly before making partner due to the firm‘s coronavirus response. I would love to hear how it’s going now that it has been a few weeks.
Sorry for the Novel
I think you’re talking about me. I asked for advice about whether I should quit and stay at home with my kids a while ago.
backstory: I was on track to make partner this year. My firm’s official policy was that everyone had to come to the office. I objected and started working from home. My managing partner sent a nasty email to the manager partner of my firm and copied HR and me. My remote access stopped working for a bit, so they were considering firing me. Then the stay at home orders rolled out and everyone started working from home.
Update: I am always prudent so I’m still at my firm and applying for other jobs, though I’d rather be at home. I’m disappointed in myself, but I’ve always done the logical thing and it’s served me well overall. Job interview tomorrow so wish me luck.
Our office reopened weeks ago. Of course, most employees are maskless, visiting each other’s offices to chit chat, in person meetings, etc. I sit in my office all day with the door closed. I was told that I am “disengaged.” The writing is on the wall. I have no future at this firm, and I don’t want one.
A bigger issue is race. I am the only Black attorney at my firm, and the recent events have made me face just how tired I am of working for White approval. I’ve been in majority White institutions since middle school. I am tired of managing my hair, my voice, my face, my feelings. I am exhausted. My career here was excellent when I was compliant. The moment I expressed an opinion I became an angry Black women who needed to be put in her place. (I’m not in biglaw, so the partners are just a small number of white men and a couple of white women.) I know many Black attorneys who say the same thing. I wanted to believe that my career would be different, but the same thing happened to me that happened to most Black lawyers I know.
The coronavirus issue is just the last straw. There is a huge racial disparity in cases and deaths here. My mom stopped looking at Facebook because so many people in our network are dead, dying, sick. Meanwhile my coworkers won’t even put on a little mask when they get coffee. Why should they inconvenience themselves when it’s Black people who are dying?
Any other job will be the same thing, but at least now I know there’s no seat for me at the table. I’ll do good work, get my money and leave.
Anon
Thank you so much for the update. I’m pissed on your behalf that you are dealing with so much racism in the workplace. I’ve seen people here post that “it’s a privilege” to be concerned about coronavirus right now, but it’s obvious that the racial disparities in hospitalizations and deaths HAVE to be a major concern for all thinking people. Good luck with your interview tomorrow; I hope all goes well. I also think this could make for a powerful op-ed if you feel like it.
Anon
I think what they meant is that it’s an economic privilege to be able to think about coronavirus over ensuring you can feed your family – it’s a privilege that only those in an economically privileged position can have. And while White privilege and economic privilege are often correlated, they’re ultimately different privileges. The above poster has economic privilege, she does not have white privilege.
Anon
No, I disagree with that. I know a lot of people with zero economic privilege who are (rightfully) very worried about the virus, especially undocumented workers in my hometown who aren’t eligible for federal relief and who typically live in tight quarters with lots of family members. They’re very worried about the economy, yes, but also very worried about the virus. I’m sure it doesn’t help that a lot of very privileged people who aren’t going to bear the most economic or health risk have decided they’re over social distancing.
Anon
Where I live, the most socioeconomically vulnerable have taken the pandemic the most seriously from the start (e.g. were already wearing masks the first week of March).
Anon
Ugh, I clicked report when I mean to click reply.
Anyway, Anon @ 1:01, obviously people with less economic privilege are still worried about the virus, they just have fewer choices. Can they afford not to work? Often times not. That’s what Anon @ 12:50 meant.
Anon
this makes me so mad on your behalf as well. and i don’t blame you for being exhausted. i cannot imagine what it must be like to be in your shoes.
Senior Attorney
Same. Not sure me being mad helps you at all (in fact I’m sure it doesn’t) but I’m out here seething on your behalf and doing my best to support the Black women (and men) in my life.
Ses
Thanks for the update, I was curious too. I’m sorry you’re going through this and losing people in your personal network while your workplace is being so blase about real death and danger.
I’m not a lawyer, but from here you don’t sound like “angry Black woman” – you sound like “responsible and prudent Black woman” and your managing partner is the one who got angry and turned nasty over your reasonable response to a global pandemic.
I hope you get your money and get out and your next place has a seat for you at the table.
Wow
I am so angry for you.
People suck. White people are often clueless, racist and totally out of line. I’m white.
I’m in medicine and have often felt marginalized in my field, and was totally ostracized when I tried to speak up for change – despite being right. I cannot even imagine being a black woman in your situation, where the life of you and your family are potentially at stake. Obviously, we do not care about each other. I’m depressed just thinking about your situation.
I want to tell you to fight fight fight.
Anonymous
Do you have the option to go solo?
HW
I am exhausted for you just reading that update. Individuals and employers are really showing their true colors right now, both in terms of racism and employee safety. Best of luck on your interview!
Junior Associate
Thank you for saying this and the update. I am so sorry and so angry, I don’t profess to understand fully what it must be like to be in your shoes (I’m Asian) but it sounds just absolutely exhausting reading your post. Good luck tomorrow.
LawyerB
Hope things get better very soon. Our professional field continues to lack diversity. Rooting for you to find a firm with good people.
I monitored our governor’s Executive Order issuance when it came out on a weekend in March and shared it with my partners. One of our managing partners reached out to me and asked if law firm were exempt from the stay at home order. I told him that we were not exempt, since we were capable of working from home. An hour later, an e-mail went out stating that we were essential and would remain open. The next day, our state bar association e-mailed its members and indicated that law firms were not deemed essential under the Executive Order. I forwarded that e-mail to our managing partners with a simple FYI note. An hour later, an e-mail went out stating that the situation had been re-evaluated and that the office would shift to telework mode…….
Marie
I am so sorry for what you are and have been going through. You deserve better. Best of luck at your interview tomorrow! I am rooting for your success!
Anonymous
I am so angry for you and what this firm has put you through. Have you thought about talking to an employment attorney? It is very possible others have complained and you are the only one being singled out like this.
anon
This feels like a slow morning, heading into the last two weeks of June and the holiday on the 4th. Corporate business seems to be slowing down for the summer, vacations, etc. Anyone else feeling a slower pace?
smol law
YEP! I am getting no emails and no phone calls the last few days. a lot of litigation cases are settling (moreso from corona-stuff not quite because #YaySummer) but I definitely feel like this year the #YaySummer ! vibes are going to hit even more with the WFH-Rona situation.
Anonymous
yes…
Anon
Any last minute Father’s Day gift ideas? My dad likes golf, the beach, beer/food/cooking and sports, doesn’t need anything, and is very picky about his golf equipment so can’t buy him anything for that.
His favorite gifts are something that we can do together … but with most things still being closed that’s hard.
Are there any book equivalents to 30 for 30? Any other ideas?
Ms B
Pretty much any book by John Feinstein would fit the bill if he has not read them already. The Tabitha Sorenson book on baseball also is very good.
What about a Cameo from a favorite golfer? I already decided the get The Prodigal Brother a Cameo from his favorite pro wrestler for his birthday this year . . .
Anonymous
What about a kit of ingredients/tools for a complicated, long-cooking meal and a lawn game. I am thinking meat smoking (wood chips, premium meat, marinade or rub, whatever tools he doesn’t have) and a bocce or croquet or cornhole or badminton set. You could spend the day enjoying each other’s company while cooking together.
Anonymous
April’s Friday feature on the moms page was a kit to make a fancy smoked brisket sandwich. That might be perfect for your dad.
Amber
We sent my dad some steaks from Omaha Steaks and they were a big hit!
Anon Probate Atty
One year, I got my dad a set of nice beer steins with the emblem of his favorite football team. He seemed to like those.
Anonymous
My husband got a giant pack of fancy steaks from my sister for christmas. It was his favorite present. Bonus: didn’t have to store it anywhere.
30 for 30 book
He may have already read it, but I just finished “The Jordan Rules” (about the Bulls’ 1990-91 season) and really liked it. I like sports though am not a particular basketball fan; I picked up the book after watching “The Last Dance” (the recent 30 for 30 series on Jordan/the Bulls).
Sloan Sabbith
A few years ago I got my dad a fruitcake shipped from Collin Street Bakery in Texas, which he LOVES. Strangely. Because fruitcake is weird.
One year mom got him frozen pork chops from his favorite place in Butte Montana for pork chop sandwiches. He was thrilled.
Team fruitcake!
I’ve had that fruitcake, and it is great. Seriously.
DLC
I got my husband license plate frames for his favorite teams one year. He loves them.
Anonymous
I’m going to attend an intensive training from 12-4 every afternoon this week. I’ll be available mornings and hope to field emails before and after the training, but I won’t be able to respond between 12-4. My clients often expect quick answers. How do I say this on my automatic out of office reply??
“I am attending a training every afternoon the week of June 15 and will have limited access to email or voicemail. I will be checking email and voicemail each morning and will do my best to get back to you as soon as possible. If you need immediate assistance, please contact [partner/assistant]”
?
Anon
Yes.
Diana Barry
Or say “no” access in the afternoons – I usually say “I will not have access to my email or voicemail during this time” to get the point across.
Anon
Agreed. You won’t have access. Focus on your training. Your clients will live.
FormerlyPhilly
How about leading with your availability instead of the training: “I will not have access to email or phone between 12-4PM from 6/15-6/19 due to training I’m attending. I will check email and voicemail before and after those times, and will do my best to respond as soon as possible. For immediate assistance, please contact NAME at PHONE/EMAIL.”
Anone
Does anyone have window treatments on unreachable windows?
I need to replace the roman shade on a large square window at the top of our open foyer. The current shade has an elongated pull cord that requires a ladder to use. Curious if remote-controlled versions are worth the expense, or if a manual mechanism is more reliable.
cat socks
We have a battery operated roller shade on the tall windows in our two story family room. We really don’t use the remote to open/close the windows. The wall faces south so the shades stay down to block out the sun. If you are opening/closing the window fairly often, the battery option may be helpful. Unfortunately I can’t speak much to battery life since we rarely use it. This was 6 years ago so they may have better versions now.
Check out Lutron
We have a remote-controlled shade for the large arched window over the door in our two story foyer. It works great! We have a small remote mounted on the wall near some light switches so that it’s easy to put it up or down. There are buttons to move it incrementally, as well as an auto-up and an auto-down. However, it also has an app and my husband set up a program (using IFTTT, I think) so that it starts lowering slowly as the sun moves down (our window faces west) and then goes back up after the sun has set. It’s fantastic to no longer have to worry about being blinded by the afternoon sun and it’s helping to reduce fading for our floors and furniture. We installed it ourselves, which was not hard although we do have a plant shelf there to stand on. I think it was worth every penny. We’ve had it a few years now and so far it’s still working perfectly.
Anon
Do you need a window treatment there or can you leave it bare?
Anone
Definitely need it; house faces west and it bakes all summer.
anon
I love my remote-controlled drapes from the Shade Store. Well worth the cost over manual drapes IMO.
True CO
Quick thank you to those who commented on the true & co question I had last week. (whether direct buy ones are better than target ones) These are definitely more substantial and have a better band on the bottom. Thank you again!
PCOS
I was talking to a friend over the weekend who was recently diagnosed with PCOS. I have many of the symptoms she mentioned – oily skin with acne, all-over-the-place periods (even while on the pill sometimes), weight gain, headaches/migraines, skin tags, problems sleeping/always tired. I think I’m going to talk to my doctor about it, but I was wondering if anyone on this board has bad similar symptoms, and if you’ve seen a doctor over them. I’m in a long-term relationship and we want children someday, although not anytime soon. Basically, can someone please talk me down from the ledge after googling symptoms all weekend?
Anon
I would 100% look into a diagnosis before you’re in the midst of trying to conceive. It’s a pretty simple diagnosis and at worst requires a blood draw and a transvaginal ultrasound. They sound scary, but I’m getting them daily right now given we’re actively in fertility treatments – they’re weird at first but don’t hurt, and are no worse than a normal gyn exam.
I was diagnosed as part of a fertility work up at 32 years old. I had all the symptoms my whole life and even had family members with it, but a bad ob/gyn that just gave me the pill to cover up most of the symptoms. With a diagnosis sooner, in my 20s, we would have gone straight to IUI’s and avoided a long process of trying on our own for that magical/arbitrary/irrelevant-to-me 12 month window and other things. I’d also recommend getting off the pill for a period of time so you can see what your natural cycle looks like right now. 90 days of this would have given me some telling data for my ObGyn, but I had been on the pill since 17 years old and could speak to my natural cycle before finding out it was problematic.
Also, at official diagnosis I’ll never forget just crying. It was like I could finally be kind to myself after a life time of fighting acne, hairs and weight issues, despite being active, running marathons, eating well, religious anti-acne regimens, etc. It’s not like a diagnosis then turns to a course of treatment/cure all – doesn’t exist for PCOS – but just being able to give myself grace and know that it’s not my habits that caused these things was huge for me mentally.
Anonymous
No need to be on a ledge! Just talk to your gyn.
Anon
Yes, I had those symptoms for years, and suffered with them. In 2002 I went to an endocrinologist and got tested and put on Metformin and the suffering was greatly eased. I still had to go through fertility treatment to have my son in 2006 (IUI with Clomid). I’m still on Metformin and get tested yearly. I was on Spironolactone as well, for about 8 years. I am overweight but my BP, cholesterol, liver enzymes, fasting blood glucose and A1c are all great. Largely because of the Metformin and the lifestyle changes I have instituted since my diagnosis (I lost 40 lbs and make sure to exercise 5/7 days out of the week, along with eating low-carb, especially low sugar).
PCOS isn’t a death sentence. It is something that can affect your long-term health and so if you have it, it needs to be treated and controlled, as much as is possible. PCOS doesn’t just cause fertility problems. It also increases risk of heart attack and stroke and people with PCOS who are insulin resistant, and don’t treat or manage the resistance, end up Type II diabetic. People seek diagnosis and treatment for PCOS because of the external symptoms, but the external symptoms are just indicators of the internal, underlying disease. Which, as I said, needs treatment. I am not sure what “ledge” you’re on but if you have bothersome symptoms and you’ve never been tested, get tested and then if you have clinical indicators (there’s not one definitive up-or-down test that says you have PCOS), talk with your doctor about what that means for you and how to deal with it. Most people I know with PCOS, like myself, have found that lifestyle changes are 80% of the solution and the rest of it is medication to manage insulin resistance, and to manage androgens if necessary.
Anon
Yes, I have PCOs related to insulin resistance. PCOS is a syndrome that can have different underlying pathologies, but skin tags and weight gain are suspicious for the insulin resistance kind. Your doctor may order a glucose tolerance test as well as some endocrine labs. Whether the pill is helpful or harmful in the long run is a big controversy; I personally do better managing symptoms off the pill. If you do have insulin resistance, metformin/glucophage is a pretty typical recommendation, though diet/lifestyle changes can be enough. There is a lot they can do to help with infertility if that’s even a problem or if that’s still a problem after treatment (I think “step one” for TTC if metformin or lifestyle hasn’t already resolved fertility issues is usually ovulation on demand w/Clomid).
anne-on
I was diagnosed later in life (36) after putting the pieces together on my own too. I would start to chart your cycles, and ask to discuss it at your next visit with either your primary care or OBGYN. Unfortunately the medications seem to be geared at controlling your insulin resistance, and/or hormonal fluctuations – I have yet to ID one pill/vitamin that addresses all of the issues. So, personally, I’m treated for my acne, migraines, and mood with different medications/treatments for each (especially as I can’t do hormonal birth control, which is where many providers throw up their hands and give up). It’s also trial and error – a therapeutic dose of spironolactone lowers my (already low) blood pressure and sodium levels so much that it alone causes headaches/dizziness/exhaustion.
There are a LOT of boards/discussion on what works well (exercise – especially weight training, meditation, vitamins, etc.) so reading up on it never hurts.
busybee
I have “lean PCOS” with no insulin resistance and my only symptom was irregular periods. I got some chin acne after I went off the pill but that’s it. I saw my ob-gyn when I had very irregular ovulation 8 months after going off the Pill. Hormone levels in my bloodwork were kind of wonky, particularly the FSH/LH ratio and AMH. Diagnosis depends on 2 out of 3 criteria. I was diagnosed a couple of months later when I got pregnant and instead of a heartbeat at the 8 week ultrasound they found tons of cysts in my ovaries. I’m not sure if your doctor would agree to a diagnostic ultrasound, but the bloodwork may be illuminating. I suggest going off the pill and taking your BBT each month to determine whether you’re ovulating. I have found that it’s really important to be proactive with this kind of thing, and arming yourself with as much info about your cycle as possible will help. On the TTC side, it will be beneficial to have the PCOS diagnosis before you spend months and months trying in vain (also see above rec for temping; it helps).
Anonymous
A call to the doctor is a good idea. Some of this also sounds like underactive thyroid–always tired, irregular periods, weight gain.
Anon
Good point. I had both when I was first diagnosed (PCOS w/insulin resistance and Hashimoto’s… hell of a senior year of high school, though I was lucky to be diagnosed sooner than later).
OP
Thank you all so much. I really appreciate all of these responses <3
Sloan Sabbith
Happy Monday! Supreme Court held in favor of LGBTQ persons and Gorsuch wrote the majority opinion! Trump is going to be irate once someone explains the decision to him like he’s five.
Anon
Such great news to start off the day!!
Anon
What a load of crap. Everyone knows that the 1964 statute does not cover gender identity, and everyone has known that for over a half century.
Anon
LOL! 6 out of 9 Supreme Court justices disagree with you! So if “everyone knows” that I guess those 6 Supreme Court justices were not in the loop?
anonshmanon
If it were possible to report single comments instead of the whole thread, I would use that option here.
Sloan Sabbith
I think someone already did, other comments have the report button on them but this one doesn’t.
Also, Kay, my name/email still isn’t saving.
Sloan Sabbith
*Kat, autocorrect
anon
It looks like this one was already moderated, hence the lack of report button. Ugh.
(also I keep getting stuck in mod despite using my usual email address?)
Anonymous
You can report individual comments unless they’ve already been through moderation, so this was approved :(
Kat G
Not true – not all threading positions can be reported (glitch in the program), and even after something’s been moderated it can be reported.
I’ll try to make this more official later today but if there’s a comment you want to report that can’t be use the phrase PLITK (please look into this Kat). We probably won’t pull entire threads but we can and do delete individual comments.
Amberwitch
That seems extremely excessive – it would be nice to have some parts of the interwebs not be cancel culture crazy.
Hey wait a second
Yeah, what the heck? We don’t like this poster’s opinion and their tone in delivering it, so we’re going to erase their contribution entirely? I happen to somewhat agree with this poster – I think the Supreme Court got it wrong on the law, frankly, but it’s probably the correct decision equitably. And I’m a card-carrying democrat. Sorry I don’t perfectly echo this chamber, but please don’t scrub my comments for it.
anon
That’s not what cancel culture means. But I do agree with you that a lot of readers seem to be using the report button as a downvote.
Robin
Well, the good news is, you can call the Supreme Court and tell them that! I’m sure they’d love to hear about it.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/contact/contactus.aspx
Sloan Sabbith
“Anon on the internet disagrees with our legal reasoning, what shall we do?”
anon
let’s ask for public comment via TikTok submissions!
Lilliet
let’s ask for public comment via TikTok submissions!
Anon
“let’s ask for public comment via TikTok submissions!”
GENIUS IDEA. Going forward all major legal decisions involving citizens’ Constitutional rights will bypass the Supreme Court and be decided via public vote on TikTok
Lobby-est
Hahaha!
Anonymous
Shhh, don’t help her.
No Face
I disagree. If you were fine having Mary as an employee because you thought she was married to Stephen, but you fired her because she’s actually married to Stephanie, you are making an employment decision based on Mary’s s*x. Likewise if you were fine with Mary, but fired the same person because he has transitioned to become Marvin. I have always thought that interpreting the plain language of Title VII would mean a prohibition on discrimination based on LGBT+ status.
Anon
FYI everyone, this comment is a difference of opinion, not “reportable.” Let’s not abuse it.
Anon
Ok but someone’s “different opinion” is that certain people, different from that someone, shouldn’t have the same rights as those who are like OP.
It’s not like she said that the dress is ugly, or that peanut butter and chocolate don’t go together — those are differences of opinion.
Anon
She didn’t say that certain groups of people shouldn’t have the same rights. She said, and many would agree, that it wasn’t the intent of the 1964 statute to be this expansive. I believe that is a legitimate legal and philosophical opinion, even if I disagree with it.
Anonymous
Agree with anon at 1242. This is an important distinction. Although the comment we are discussing came off rude and flippant, it wasn’t out of bounds to discuss her take on the law at issue.
anonshmanon
That’s where you and I seem to have differing opinions.
Anonymous
You can express your opinion without saying the OPs post is a load of crap
Anonymous
Where “everyone” = “almost nobody and certainly not anybody with a functioning heart or brain.”
Anonymous
LOL false
Anon
Why are you SO threatened by what she posted that you’d rather scrub it? I’d rather know what people are thinking now than find out after the fact on November 4.
Anon
I’m in favor of this decision overall (obviously), but there are some nuances I’m concerned about. Will certain businesses serving women, notably domestic violence shelters and salons that provide special services (e.g., bikini waxing), still be able to hire biologically female staff to ensure client safety and comfort? There was a case in Canada where this became a big issue and I’ve always thought it was a important point of tension in discussions about whether identity should be covered under anti-discrimination statute. I do think that certain businesses should retain the ability to “discriminate” against hiring male staff. I’m no lawyer, though, so hoping someone else can help clarify this.
Anonymous
The case in Canada does not deal with the scenario you describe. It was a human rights compliant by a litigious transgender woman who sought bikini waxing services. The commission upheld the right of the beauticians to provide services only to individuals with female genitalia and refuse services to individuals with male genitalia regardless of how they identified because that type of waxing (waxing of male genitalia) was not a service they advertised. The complainant was required to pay costs. Don’t fear-monger with wrong information.
Anon
I was referring to the Nixon case.
anonshmanon
Of course businesses can hire based on their business needs. That has not changed at all, not by the Civil Rights act of 1964, and not by today’s decision to extend those civil rights to gay and transgender people.
Lana Del Raygun
Yeah I agree with you here.
Robin
You’d have to prove it was a bona fide occupational qualification, I believe, same as discriminating on anything else that’s protected in law. I don’t know how the case law will shake out. I can certainly see “women only”, same as they have now; I’m not sure I can see an argument for “biological women only”, because that’d include people who have transitioned to male; I’m very much not sure I can see an argument for “cis women only”, because a lot of the time you can’t tell. Would you be asking applicants about the details of their medical history, or would you be refusing to hire any woman who doesn’t look feminine enough? It’d just be super hard to enforce.
anon
I don’t understand why this matters. The myth of the trans predator is just right-wing hysteria.
Anon
I’m a left-wing progressive (in fact, I’ve never voted for a single Republican in any position) and I think there are a lot of interesting questions that need to be resolved here. IMO, domestic violence shelters should definitely be permitted to hire female staff and women should also be able to request sensitive medical services, including Pap smears and so on, from female providers.
Anonymous
In my hospital, the L&D floor staff is generally female (perhaps except for doctors and maybe some higher-level nurses; housekeeping is definitely female).
anon
Trans women are women. It doesn’t matter what genitals someone was born with. Also doctors are not randomly assigned to patients in most settings so you already do get to pick who does your pap smears.
Anon
Serious question b/c I’ve never understood the whole “no male OB-GYN service providers, thanks” position –
Should women also be able to request “sensitive medical services” from straight female providers only?
Because if you think 1 is reasonable and 2 is not, then I don’t understand your argument.
anonshmanon
Is this not the case now? I can go and ask to be treated by a female doctor, patted down by a female TSA agent, if I had a private business, I could refuse to serve gay customers, and all you lawyers still rely on your firm (not the law) having your back when the client demands a male attorney. The Civil Rights Act (that this case interprets) has been around for over half a century, not infringing on these matters of personal choice.
Anon
It very, very much matters which genitals someone was born with, at least in a world where 99% of all sexual violence is committed by the people with pen1ses, who also maintain social, political, and economic power in every society on earth. It matters every day of my life as a woman. Your response is like saying “it doesn’t matter what skin color someone is born with” – yes, it does matter, VERY much. Should it? No. But it does.
Anon
To the poster above who asked re: straight female providers – I don’t prefer a female OB-GYN because she likes men, I prefer one because she has the same parts she’s looking and I’ve always had a better experience with them understanding any issues I’m dealing with. I don’t care if she’s straight or not. Trans man would be cool with me too.
Anon
I never understand how people are so confident that they can just tell.
anon
Lol figures that the racist is also transphobic. I promise people don’t transition as part of some elaborate ruse to commit s*x crimes. That’s crazy talk.
Anonymous
I’m confused that so many on this board seem to think that the preference some women have for having a female OB has to do with the doctor themselves and not, you know, past trauma that the woman has experienced. Yes, let’s force some women who have been s*xually assaulted and have PTSD have to suffer through more trauma each time they go in for a medical procedure by forcing them to use a provider they aren’t comfortable with touching them. Jeez.
anon
No one is advocating forcing anyone to do anything. The discussion here is about not excluding certain providers from specific fields.
Anonymous
My sense is that predation is predation and not influenced by trans-status or not. There are plenty of natal male predators. That some of them may have transitioned is not remarkable. Ditto female predators. I don’t think trans status moves the needle on the numbers, just perhaps the headline-ability of it. OTOH, predators are predators and that is a concern regardless. We lower our guard around women (of any flavor) and we shouldn’t always.
Anon
On the list of things I’m worried about in life, “straight male pervert dressing in drag and pretending to identify as female in order to go through training to become a bikini waxer and start working at a salon” is not on my list. This is not a thing.
Panda Bear
Agreed – least of my worries. And besides, I personally I don’t care who waxes me as long as they do a good job. More importantly, though, people of any gender can be highly skilled at serving survivors of domestic violence (who, by the way, can also be of any gender).
Anon
No one is saying they can’t be skilled, but would you argue that if a female sexual assault survivor comes in and asks to be served by female staff only that her wishes should be disregarded? It’s a very serious question.
Anon
Check out the Yaniv and Kimberly Nixon cases in Canada. Both are cases with a lot more nuance than you’ve snipped about in your post. Do you honestly think it was a good thing for Nixon (MTF) to drag a rape crisis center through endless litigation and eventually tank all city funding to the center because they denied Nixon employment and said they only wanted to hire female staff? Do you think it’s okay that Yaniv brought a ton of lawsuits against small, female-owned, and predominantly immigrant-owned waxing salons because the female proprietors reported that they do not wax male genitalia?
Anonymous
Yaniv lost all the cases.
Anon
Damn good thing too, although I thought I heard he initiated a new round of lawsuits. He’s a very twisted perv.
Never too many shoes...
The Yaniv cases were, to me, decided correctly. Regardless, even though I do not think much of her as a person, Ms. Yaniv is a she, not a he.
Nixon is a much more interesting case and I am not sure how I feel about the decision, to be honest.
Anon
Yaniv was using male pronouns on Twitter and LinkedIn during the cases. Has that changed?
Anon
Gender as always a protected class though – I don’t think any businesses where the job can be done by either sex (even bikini waxers) have the ability to discriminate against men in hiring. A cis het male is much more likely to be a predator than a trans woman, so I’m not sure why the forced hiring of trans women is a concern.
LittleBigLaw
Trans women are women.
Anon
Rachel Dolezal is black.
anon
Rachel Dolezal is as black as you are smart but that has nothing to do with the fact that trans women are women.
anon
Spokane Washington’s hometown hero, Rachel Dolezal.
Anon
If one’s personal, internally defined identity is the only relevant piece of information in how he or she should be legally recognized and treated by others, then yes, Dolezal is black. Biology doesn’t matter.
Anon
Just FYI– and a disclaimer that I have not looked up the wording of the statute verbatim– but you can still choose to hire someone based on their protected class if it is relevant for the job they are being hired to do. For example, an airline is not required to hire a pilot who is blind. If you are hiring someone to take over for a woman who is leaving on maternity leave, you can choose not to hire a pregnant women who will be on maternity leave at the same time.
Also, sex discrimination has always been in Title VII. Victims rights organizations that treat women and hire only female trauma counselors have been doing so legally under Title VII for decades. This decision would only affect those organization if they were firing their, already female, employees for being gay, etc.
FFS
I’m so glad it was a 6-3 decision.
Wow
+1
I think I had a small heart attack when I saw that.
It is making me breathe slightly easier for the future of this country.
JHC
Yes! And Gorsuch writing the opinion? I did a double take.
Sloan Sabbith
I thought he might vote in favor because of the textualist read on it (listened to The Daily podcast about it and read a Politico article, so not a lot of hard hitting legal journalism, but enough that I was convinced it’s what he would do) but I was also shocked he wrote the opinion.
anonshmanon
another question from a non-lawyer: Am I naive for assuming that this will reinstate the LGBTQ nondiscrimination protection that were just dropped from the affordable care act? I guess someone still would have to sue the administration to make this happen? Any predictions how this will play out?
Painting walls
Tell me if I’m crazy here, but are painting interior walls one of the easier “renovation” DIYs? Last time I did it, I was 12 years old and helping my parents do it, but I seem to remember doing my whole bedroom myself and it being kind of fun? I’ve lived in a series of places since then that didn’t require any painting, but am about to move into a place where I’d like to paint the living room and think it could be do-able by myself vs hiring someone?
Anonymous
Definitely doable and enjoyable if the walls aren’t too high (I cap out at 8-9 feet).
anon
absolutely.
pugsnbourbon
I’d say it’s simple enough to do yourself. Definitely prep the surface first, take the time to tape, etc, but overall it’s not difficult. There are a few guides on Real Simple and Good Housekeeping that are useful if it’s been a long time since you’ve painted.
MagicUnicorn
Painting is easy, and easier if you have no furniture moved into the room yet. Cleaning and preparing the walls (filling any cracks or holes, sanding bumps out, priming if there is a pattern or dark color you need to cover) ahead of time is the most time consuming. Sites like This Old House have lots of detailed how-to instructions.
Lana Del Raygun
It’s not difficult but it can be a pain in the neck, especially the surface prep. I personally agree it’s kind of fun, at least up to a point. You definitely don’t need to hire a pro! (If you’re using TSP to clean the walls beforehand, WEAR GOGGLES. I accidentally got some in my eye and it was quite painful, and Poison Control almost sent me to the ER.)
Senior Attorney
You certainly can do it yourself, but if you haven’t done it much and you want to do a good job, it won’t be easy and it probably won’t be fun. It’s not the painting so much as the prep.
I’ve done a lot of interior painting in my time and these days I hire it out every time.
anon
This. I get really annoyed whenever people say painting is easy. Between picking out the color (hardest part in my opinion), making sure you have all the materials, cutting and then washing everything, it is definitely work. It’s doable, and something you can certainly do on your own, but it’s still work and takes time.
Anon
It’s a lot of work, but it’s not difficult. I don’t think anybody is trying to claim that it doesn’t take a lot of time and effort.
Anonymous
Yes, it’s easier. Do a good job with the prep work even though it’s boring.
Anon
Yes, it’s very easy to do it yourself.
Anonymous
Definitely do-able. I love to paint rooms. DH swears we have lost inches in each room based on the layers of paint because I change room colors so often. However, I hate to paint ceilings! It is do-able, just not as enjoyable.
Anon
Do it before you move furniture in, if at all possible.
As others have said, its 90% prep and 10% paint.
Betsy
I’m looking to create an emergency plan for taking care of my aging parents in their home if they got covid and were very ill, but not so ill that they would need to be hospitalized. Several of my parents friends have had both people in the couple get very sick at the same time and have had to scramble to figure out care. I want to create a plan that will address the big issues, have emergency contact information, and also a supply kit that I will start shopping for now that cleaning supplies and masks are becoming somewhat more available.
So far, the questions I’m thinking about are where they would sleep if they were too weak to get to upstairs bedrooms, which bathroom would be designated for them, how we would address pet care during this time (ie, would they be fully separated, and if so, where) and where I would stay if I needed to stay with them around the clock. For supplies, I’m thinking about creating a kit with safety googles, masks, disinfecting supplies and copies of medical power of attorney paperwork. If anyone has done this, I would really appreciate if you could share the questions you’ve addressed as well as what items you would add to the supply kit.
anon
Start looking for two separate thermometers and backup batteries (I once bought a brand new one that came with an empty battery – not helpful). Pain meds and fever reducers (what actually is the consensus on these now? In late March, some news stories repeated that Aspirin and Ibuprofen could make things worse, but the WHO and CDC never adopted this stance. I’ve tried googling this a few times, but have not found an explicit rebuttal). With fever and diarrhea as common symptoms, I have some gatorade stocked to prevent dehydration. And then remember some mundane things that you wouldn’t want to leave the house for: handsoap, toilet paper, comfort snacks. If your parents live not in your town, research grocery and takeout delivery options.
Anonymous
in our covid-readiness kit we have: thermometer + extra battery, a few packs of tylenol, cough suppressant syrup, gatorade, canned easy chicken noodle soup, and a stack of extra sets of sheets ready to change, a few cloth re-useable face masks for the sick person to put on when the other person comes to help take care of them. we have a few latex gloves but idk if we’d be using those or just hand washing carefully as we only have like 3 pairs. we would likely have the sick person isolate in the master bedroom because it has an attached bathroom so we put everything in a plastic tub there. i also printed out our kaiser info for where to call/procedure for covid just to have it in an easy place. in a perfect world i would also get an oximeter but they are out everywhere these days so i gave up on that.
anon
oh, good point. I gathered contact detail and login for my provider’s mobile app with my kit.
Flats Only
If they’re too weak to get upstairs to the bedrooms, they should stay in the bedrooms and not come downstairs. The upstairs bathroom would be designated for them (assuming there is one). You can stay downstairs on an air mattress or the couch if it’s comfortable. The downstairs will be your clean space, and they will be isolated upstairs. Have all the supplies the other poster mentioned. Now that it’s warmer make sure the windows open and have screens – I think being able to air out the rooms would be good. Plan for entertainment in their rooms while they’re isolated – if they’re used to watching TV downstairs see if you can set up TV in their rooms – the cable company can provide little wireless extender boxes that aren’t hard to set up yourself, and you can pick up a cheap TV if needed. For pets, is there someone in their neighborhood who can take them temporarily? Reach out on NextDoor for that type of thing.
Anonymous
Get a pulse oximeter.
Anonymous
+1000. They’re like $20. We got one when my oldest had lasting issues from RSV as a baby that extended into her preschool and elem years and it saved us SO MANY ER trips…and also made us go in when we otherwise wouldn’t have thought to (her SPO2 was 89 and other than a cough she looked fine!)
Rental investment resources
Has anyone invested in rentals as part of their investment/ retirement strategy? Any advice or resources that helped you get started? TIA
Anon
Punch yourself in the face while lighting your wallet on fire. That’s been my experience as an unintentional landlord (real estate market never really recovered in the city where my old house is located, so it’s been rented out). Perhaps it sucks less if you approach it intentionally, but all it takes is one shitbird tenant, sketchy handyman or flaky property manager to wipe out your profit and then some.
Strictly money-wise, it’s been a wash over the course of the last 5 years. Time/stress-wise, just UGH.
Anon.
We own a rental in my home country in a much sought-after European city. We look at it as insurance, as we could sell the apartment if we ever needed cash in the Euro Zone, should we choose to go back and not have enough money to right away participate in the housing market.
The additional cash per year from renting it out is just between 10-15K, and after expenses and taxes we keep in the order of 7-10K. So not really something that could finance our entire life once retired.
And I agree, it is work. We work with an agency for advertising it, finding and vetting new renters, and dealing with the contract setup according to local law etc. They take 2 months of rent each time, so our contracts are 2 year contracts by default since we’re not interested in spending 1/6 every year on just finding renters. For other stuff, we have used the management company of the whole building (they prepare the annual heating/utility bills for the complex). On the rare occasion, we have asked the renters to get 3 offers for something like a plumber, or we may have gone with the first company available if it was something urgent. My family lives in the same city but we have only used my dad for apartment-related stuff one or two times since he has our power of attorney – I will switch this to my brother soon-ish.
Family dinner
Family. Both parents work. Two school-aged kids. Sunday evening. I plan for a meal, shop for the food, stop my leisure to cook the food, and actually cook the food so that it will be ready at an actual meal time. Kid 1 is enlisted to set the table. Kid 2 comes promptly when called.
How mad would you be if:
1. spouse, upon being informed of dinner’s availability (surely not a surprise given the house and that we regularly feed our kids and ourselves based on typical bougie meal times), says that he will be coming “in a bit”
2. spouse then goes on about how spouse would prefer eating at the breakfast bar (where 2/3 of meals occur b/c we eat bfast on our own a lot due to no out-the-door constraints now that we’re all at home), no doubt b/c it has access to a TV
So surprised my head hasn’t exploded. My kids (who are our kids, not some unicorns I have raised solo on my own previously) know how rude this was, especially when he carried on and made a scene. I know I have to outlive him — if I die when they are young they will revert to feral promptly and eat only with their hands and use shirt sleeves for napkins.
Anon
#1 isn’t that big a deal to me – we do that pretty regularly in our house, and I think it’s understandable especially if the time is being used to finish something work-related. #2 is rude, especially if he kept going on about it, but it’s not the kind of thing I’d pick a fight over at this time, when everyone is burned the F out and nerves are very frayed.
Sounds like he definitely needs to be doing more of the meal planning/preparation though. There’s no reason that should be solely your task.
What Day Is It
Mildly annoyed at 1. Very mad at 2. And tempted next week to order a meal and feed myself and the kids at the regular time, but not order for him. If he’s not participating AND has the gall to be a jerk about it, he can have a bowl of cereal. At the breakfast bar. Whenever he decides to eat.
And then we’d all blow up and have to go to separate corners for a bit before hashing out expectations and making up.
Anonymous
Why are you married to him?
Peanut
1. Assuming this is a first time occurrence, I would ignore and hope he gets in a better mood the next day. Given the stress of the quarantine, this would be the best option.
2. Depending on the level of joking in my house, I might say – that while he’d prefer to eat alone, the rest of us were going to eat at the table and we’d give him his “alone-time” which in my house is what we give each other when we’re in bad moods.
3. When you’re both calm, have a discussion about what you want to model for the kids, including family dinner together sans TV.
4. If you are at the end of your rope and have had discussions about this before and he hasn’t gotten better, just eat without him after telling him “dinner will be ready in a bit.”
5. Or say that the cook gets to determine where you eat and that if he’d like to cook, you’d be happy to eat at the breakfast bar.
Cat
Both of these would annoy me, but whether they should make *your* head explode depends on what’s normal dinnertime for your family — if your routine is eating dinner as a family around the same time, no electronics, then yeah I agree with you.
Anon
Sounds like you have three children. I’m sorry.
anon8
Is spouse actually another child who is throwing a temper tantrum over wanting to eat at the breakfast bar?
#1 wouldn’t really bother me. I’l start eating and spouse can re-heat the food if it gets cold.
How often does #2 happen and is it part of a larger pattern of behavior? That may be something to discuss at a time when you are both calm or consider counseling if you keep going in circles and can’t resolve it on your own.
Anon
It really bothers me if my spouse doesn’t come to dinner when it’s ready, especially because we always discuss in advance what we feel like and when we want to eat. I get that he’ll get in the middle of something, but how is it my problem that he decided to dive into a 2-hour task when he knew dinner was coming in 20 mins?
Anonia
1. Fine in our house with the caveat that ’a bit’ doesn’t mean 20-30 later when the meal is half over. If you’re going to be that late, just say the amount of time you need and tell others to go ahead; or eat later by yourself. Either is fine, but it’s not fair to keep others waiting to eat until you show up.
2. Would not fly in our house. That person would be invited (nicely) to go eat at the breakfast bar and leave the rest of us alone. Our family rule has always been that in the dining room we don’t listen to NPR radio. if you must listen, you go to the kitchen. In the kitchen, radio is allowed during all meals, but people who don’t want to listen can move to the dining room and the person who wants to listen gets left alone. My father will listen 24/7 if he could, the rest of us find that dinner doesn’t sit well with some news stories. TV is banned in our kitchen.
anon for this
Nightly dinnertime is my hill to die on. Before kids we ate casually, often on the couch, but I was very clear that would end when there were children. I still deal with what you deal with sometimes. I try to head it off by giving a 5-minute warning when dinner is almost ready, but still, one kid and DH wait until I say that food is on the table to wash hands, change clothes, etc. Every few months I have to remind them that dinner is important to me and to make an effort. It’s annoying but I want my kids to grow up with family dinners.
Anonymous
On a good day, I’d roll with it. If I was already angry, frustrated, tired, or disconnected from him in general, I’d get really mad. On a bad day, I’d get frustrated.
You’re obviously frustrated and angry enough to come vent here. Were you guys both having a bad day, is this a systemic problem, or is this weeks of unsaid stuff finally coming to a head?
Anonymous
In our household, family meals are sacrosanct.
1. In our house, when one spouse starts cooking a meal that person informs the other spouse of this and the approximate time when the meal is served. For weekend dinners and other meals with flexible timing, cooking spouse consults with other spouse on timing before starting to cook. All household members are expected to appear promptly when summoned to eat.
2. No TV, phones, or other devices are permitted during meals unless we are eating in front of the TV as a special treat.
You and your spouse need to agree on the ground rules for family meals. This discussion needs to happen out of earshot of the children and not during mealtime.
Senior Attorney
Oh, my. I think both of these are unspeakably rude.
That said, how you deal with it depends on a whole host of things including whether this is a one-time thing, whether he ever cooks meals, and so on. Sounds like you two need to have A Serious Talk about how meals are going to go in your house going forward.
Anon
He sounds awful.
My mom, after my dad died, had a partner who could never tear himself away from the TV to come to the dinner my mom had prepared, and to me that was the most disrespectful, rude thing in the world. In his case, it was absolutely true that he did not respect her, and serially cheated on her until one of the affair partners let him move in with her, and then he left her for good.
Because of this, I won’t have a TV anywhere near the dining room or kitchen. Meal time is a time for conversation. My kids are teens now and we’ve been able to hold steady on no phones at the table as well.
Your story pissed me off so much! Dump the whole man, keep the dinners.
Anonanonanon
Ugh. I’m sorry. As someone else said, sounds like 3 kids.
We all have our days, and it wouldn’t bother me if my husband had made it clear from the beginning of the evening that he had had A DAY and needed some alone time, or had a specific reason like “the dining room chairs really hurt my back and I was sitting all day, can we all sit together at the breakfast bar?” but it sounds like he was being a pouty child and I’m sorry.
Anon
I’ll be the outlier here and say that I typically do meals with my kids without my spouse. Spouse does other stuff, for example completely take over the kids post dinner for bath, brush and bed. Also takes over the kids for a half hour to an hour before dinner for a walk to the park and back.
So I do dinner. Spouse does not join because of work, wanting to eat something else later that he will order in, or other reasons. It’s our deal and I’m fine with it.
Anonymous
It’s insulting. My dad did this to my mom and our family. When he eventually arrived at the table, he read the newspaper, holding it up in front of his face. He still does this. My mom never complained.
DC Anon
What would make you feel more comfortable upon returning to the office? My supervisors are asking for ideas on how to return. I’d like to ask for total work from home, but it’s a government office, so I doubt that will happen. The office is mostly made up of cubes with a shared break room. All or most child care is closed for the summer in our area, so I’m going to ask to stay at home until schools reopen in the fall at least.
Anonymous
Knowing how the ventilation works, wipes/hand san for the break room. If it’s cubes then can you buy one of those super air filtration systems that I saw dentists are buying?
Anon
first i would survey the staff to see what people’s preferences are for wfh vs. work in the office, to see if anyone is immunocompromised or lives with anyone immunocompromised, commutes via public transportation and/or has childcare challenges. i do not know how much leeway the office has or if there is a required number of people that have to be in the office at a time, but i would aim for as few people as possible. then i would divide into teams so that only 25% is in the office at a time and rotate on a 4 week cycle so that you are with the same people for the week to minimize spread and maximize contact tracing and social distancing. have people wear masks, which should be provided by the office, along with readily available hand sanitizer and clorox wipes. figure out what, if anything, can be done in the break room. at my employer we are being required to switch to all disposable cups/plates, etc. we also had an automatic hand sanitizer dispenser installed right outside of the bathroom and the break room. increased flexibility for people to wfh if they are sick, or their kid is sick,, etc. if you work in a building with elevators there should be signs posted requiring mask usage and with a maximum number of people in the elevator at a time
Anon
I was thinking about this after listening to today’s NYT Daily Podcast. It really sounds like WFH is still the way forward, but I am high risk and seeing things from that perspective.
Anon
My office sent around a survey asking what we’d need to return to work or be more effective working at home and I just wrote CHILDCARE in all caps, lol. As far as virus precautions, I would say closing the shared break room and mandating masks since you don’t have private office spaces. A generous WFH policy for any employee who is even mildly ill, so people don’t feel the need to come into the office when they’re sick.
Anon
100% mask usage at all times in cubes, shared spaces, and when office door is open, staggered office days (work at home the other days) so that only every other cubicle is occupied, no face to face meetings, no communal food or coffee (Kuerig seems the way to go here if at all), touchless temps taken upon entry, and cube divider extensions (you can clip them to the top of the cube to make them taller – they’d need to get to at least 6’2 inches so the water droplets of someone sneezing or coughing while standing up will mainly stay in the cube)
Anonymous
Does your region have guidelines for reopening? If not, you might read the NY or CA office guidelines for ideas. The concept is to space team members apart as much as possible and reduce the shared resources like shared lunch as well. We would also limit the sinks and stalls in the loo to ensure spacing.
Cat
Ask them to assume any single person in the building could be asymptomatic or presymptomatic, and how other workers would be protected from that. Elevators would be a huge problem for my company (skyscraper, they’re routinely packed to capacity), and I’d want to know a lot more than I ever imagined about our HVAC system.
Anonymous
Also a gov’t employee who isn’t going back any time soon no matter what they say, but if I liked my job/cared what they thought/wasn’t looking to quit — my top concerns would be plans for elevators and HVAC. What % of outside air is pumped into HVAC now, are they going to be upping that to CDC guidelines. It’s something that can be done in commercial HVAC but your employer has to work with the landlord/landlord’s engineers to actually do it so it’s not like flipping a switch. Plus for elevators, I and most I know aren’t comfortable unless we ride alone or maybe 1 other person so in a building of 1800 people, it’d take hours for people to get upstairs — so what % of people can they have coming in every day (not because of state restrictions but because of entry/exit issues) and where are people lining up for elevators – outside? Plus is there agreement that there will be NO in person meetings in conference rooms or people’s offices and you can dial into everything. Which then brings me back to — if I have to sit in traffic for hours and pay for parking (because everyone in DC is going to drive) + it’ll take me an hour+ to get upstairs after waiting in line with elevators + and then I’ll go to my office to dial into a meeting — yeah no thanks, I can do that from home in about 2 min.
Anonymous
I am a government employee and some of us were not able to WFH based on our positions. I have a private office and bathroom, so the risk at work is much less than many others. Our admin staff are in cubicles. They have been phased back in and they are in the office on a rotating schedule, so all of the cubicles around each employee are vacant. (My admin is in the office one day a week and WFH the other four days.) That gives each staff person more than six feet of space in every direction.
Anon
I want my office to follow CDC guidelines for reopening businesses instead of doing “let’s just do whatever and see what people’s preferences are.”
Lana Del Raygun
I’m a fed employee and union steward. My agency is being basically reasonable; right now only people doing critical operations are onsite. They’re promising temperature checks (meh), increased cleaning, mandatory masking and some masks provided, and increased external air exchange. We’re also asking management not to move to a less restrictive stage of the plan until all the stay-at-home orders in the commuting area are lifted, to guarantee that the cleaning products are from the CDC approved list, and to require+provide training on social distancing/masking/etc. The big thing, imo, is that they keep promising that no one will be required to come in if they don’t feel safe and/or don’t have childcare, but every time they say it, it’s a little weaker, so I’m preparing for a wave of grievances. We’ve also demanded an anonymous hotline for reporting safety concerns (including pressure to come in from supervisors) which they’ve set up. I hope that helps!
UserX
I’ve been at a new job for about less than 2 months now. It’s a small nonprofit. They are growing in a way that I was hired to help with, and my title is assistant director for a particular (technical) department.
I haven’t worked in a nonprofit like this before and it doesn’t feel like a good fit. Everything happens by committee and the same decisions and discussed multiple times.
My boss is used to doing things a certain way and has been burned before, and maybe because of that is very reluctant to make changes. She sees me trying to make the changes I was hired to as not recognizing the current problems. I can’t tell how many of the problems are real ca just hemming and hawing, and some are definitely that.
My counter part in a department we work with a lot, and the head of project management both get along with me and like my ideas.
I had an on paper much more stressful, high profile
Job before this and was so much less anxious. This was supposed to be a less stressful job, but isn’t because it doesn’t jive well with me I guess.
Ughhh. How / do I bring this up with my boss? I’ve asked the usual “is there anything else I should
Be doing?” etc but haven’t gotten a response. I’m also doing 2 jobs at the moment – what I was hired for and another technical job that they need. The org does t realize how complicated the technical thing they want to do is.
I also might get a job offer soon that is more similar to my old job. I normally wouldn’t want to leave so soon, but I’m not sure if this is working. I’m not worried about job hopping – that isn’t much of a concern now.
Anonymous
I’d go ahead and jump ship. There are times a workplace just doesn’t fit culturally – that’s ok.
UserX
Thank you. And I think I have learned something from why this wasn’t a good fit. I had t worked somewhere like this before. I thought I could deal with headaches, but apparently only in certain circumstances.
Anonymous
I’d be more direct and summarize what you’ve said here – “you’re new to NFP’s but have noticed X and Y; and Y in particular seems to [tactfully: slow down your work, make it hard for the NFP to do Z, etc.]. Is my assessment accurate?” If so, you may get background on how to approach in a better way, or you may hear this is just how things are done and can decide if that’s a work environment you want. But I’d move beyond “anything I need to do?” first.
UserX
This is interesting. I’ll have to distill it down to something specific – “difficulty making decisions in a timely manner”
Anonymous
So I’ve noticed when DH and I start arguing, he says my name A LOT, often beginning each sentence with my name. For some reason, even if we are otherwise speaking calmly to each other, this comes off as very aggressive to me, more aggressive than he intends. I can’t put my finger on why though? I’ve pointed it out to him and asked him to stop, but nothing ever changes. I think it is because I am not able to articulate what about this speech pattern is so triggering. Am I being weirdly sensitive or does anyone else understand it?
Anon
I don’t know why either, but that is so, so incredibly aggro and annoying to me too. It feels condescending and dismissive and I can’t put my finger on why either.
Anonymous
+1
anonshmanon
Reminds me of the cliched using a child’s full name only when scolding.
Peanut
Yep, that’s it.
Anon
My DH normally calls me by a nickname, and uses my correct name only when he is angry with me. I’ve told him that it makes me feel like my name is a curse word.
Anon
Yes that is it. It’s condescending and transmitting “I’m the adult in this conversation and things need to be explained to you, Sarah, because you’re too stupid and ignorant to see that I’m right.”
Monday
I’d be very put off by that. It sounds like an elementary school teacher dealing with a disciplinary situation. But in fact, when I used to work with kids I was specifically told not to over-use their names in such instances. Definitely patronizing, especially since you’ve asked him to stop. Why can’t he?
Anonymous
No. He doesn’t stop not because you haven’t found the Magic language to explain to him. He doesn’t stop because he doesn’t want to. Because he is trying to be aggressive.
Anon
Yup, this.
Anonymous
I feel this way about e-mails worded like this:
“Jane, blah blah blah blah.”
Somehow that comes across as so much more aggressive than:
“Jane-
Blah blah blah.”
Anon
Is this a new thing? I have encountered a few people who say my name regularly throughout a conversation, and I always find it so bizarre. Someone suggested once that those are people who have read How to Win Friends and Influence People, not sure how true that is. Regardless, I am with you.
OP
Not a new thing, only happens during arguments. We’ve been together for 7 years and I probably only identified it within the last 2, but I’m pretty sure it’s been happening the whole time. Sometimes it’s hard to narrow in on the thing that is making me feel a certain way, so this took a while for me.
Anon
It’s also something people do subconsciously when they’re flirting with each other, but that’s obviously a different context.
Anon for this
An abusive ex only used my name when he was being abusive to me, so now I really (really) hate when people use my name when they’re upset or frustrated, enough that I get very, very anxious and will back down immediately in any situation. I don’t actually like when people say it even when not upset, because he used it as a weapon to dismiss me/make me feel like a child.
So, no real advice, but, yes, it also sucks for me.
Senior Attorney
OMG my former husband used to do something similar, only instead of my name it was “Dear,” spat out onto the floor like a piece of bad meat. To the point that his pet talking parrot took to imitating it.
Agree that he doesn’t change because he doesn’t want to. The fact that it’s super triggering to you isn’t a bug, it’s a feature. I’m so sorry.
Anon
I find that I do this to my SO when arguing too. I think it’s because I feel like I’m not being listened to, and the main way to get someone’s attention is to say their name. So perhaps if you want to work on your couple arguing dynamics, you can try and figure out why he thinks he says your name, how it makes you feel, what you could do to help him feel he doesn’t have to, etc.
Anon
Agree. I say someone’s name at the point when I feel like I’m not being heard.
Anonymous
Same
anon
Not just you. I had a terribly abusive boss who did this both verbally and in writing. He didn’t do it just to me, but I agree that it is just incredibly vexing. It made me so uncomfortable and still does. It sounds condescending and like he’s doing it to assert authority, some how. Like a parent scolding a child. I also have a female colleague who does this and while it still makes me twitch (probably because of my old boss) it’s not as nearly as bad.
Sadie
This also bothers me, and I agree with the person above who said it’s condescending when done in this way.
My husband uses a pet name for me (Like Honey, but a bit more unique) literally always when he is talking TO me. Even in front of other people, which used to drive me nuts. (He refers to me by name if talking ABOUT me to others, but never when talking to me). If we had an argument and he started going “Well, Sadie, let me explain why you’re wrong” I would lose it!
Anon
Mask reviews in case helpful:
-Banana Republic: nice, adjustable ear straps & quilted liner w/ a pocket for filter. Some sizing inconsistencies, and an overall heavier mask, but good. B+
-Old Navy: super basic, children’s size ran very small. Adult size fit male spouse but too large for me. D
-Gap: Children’s masks ran small-definitely for 10 and under. Adult size mask fit my male spouse, but too large for me. Ear loops not adjustable, but has a nose wire. B-
-Summersalt: Nice, lightweight material & adjustable ear loops. The yellow & White was so cute, but looked strange on. Patterned & plain black ones will work well but wish there were other colors to choose from. No pocket for filter. A-
-Emilia George: The tie straps around each ear seemed like they would be comfortable plus the nose wire. However, the whole fit was just totally off. F
Waiting on ones from Athleta, Madewell and Keen. I’ll have to wear one 8+ hours a day once back to work, so really wanting to find comfortable ones & will donate those that don’t work.
Anokha
This is super helpful. Thank you!!
Anon
I’d like to put in a plug for buying masks on Etsy instead of from corporate chains. It’s a good opportunity to support small businesses, especially businesses that are women and/or minority-owned. I’ve been pleased with the quality of masks from CENBoutique.
Anon
Totally. I just feel overwhelmed trying to sort through Etsy but will definitely check out the one you suggested.
Silly Valley
Thanks for these reviews. I’ve got to wear them all day at work too; so far have just gone with homemade or the cheapie disposable ones that work has.
anon
Thanks! This is really helpful—kiddo will be wearing a mask all day at school and camp, so I’m ordering a ton of options to try as well.
Petunia Pickle Bottom masks fit kid and me ok. The elastic around the head is adjustable. Arrived quickly.
Primary hasn’t arrived, but shipped quickly.
Old Navy and Gap are taking forever to ship. Maybe I’ll get them a month and a half after ordering?
Never too many shoes...
I ordered some from eshakti and am waiting patiently for them to arrive – if they are half as nice as they look, I will be thrilled!
Anon
I finally tried the kleenex over the bridge of the nose trick some of you suggested, and it really helped keep my glasses from fogging up, so thank you!
I KNOW I was the most stylish person in the hardware store in my Johnny Was mask, the colors of which coordinated perfectly with my outfit.
(That’s what separates us from the animals – the ability to accessorize)
LLM Woes
Thanks to all those who weighed in on my LLM quandary last week. I appreciate all the advice and commiseration.
At the risk od outing myself, it’s Harvard, and unfortunately they are much better known than other top schools outside of the US — meaning my funding is not readily transferable to other schools. I get that they are trying to keep everyone safe but some of their responses have been really tone deaf, and they had the nerve to tell us that if we are the rule-following routine sort that lawyers tend to be then this might not be a good time to join them, but if we are the innovativd, creative sort with leadership skills – which is what they look for in applicants – and rise to challenges, then this is a great time to join them in their robust fully online program this fall. And oh, they will defer us for 2 years if we defer due to the fully online program and uncertainties surrounding eligibility to take the bar, bur we are welcome to apply again next year (no preference will be give though) if we want to be considered for LLM class of 2022.
For a modern take on “if they don’t have bread, why don’t they eat cake?”:
https://abovethelaw.com/2020/06/harvard-law-tells-concerned-students-to-rent-office-space-to-study-during-online-only-semester/