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Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Effortless Pant

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A pair of tailored pants in light blue/green

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

A beautiful full-length pant is hard to find these days, but this high-waisted wide-leg pair from Aritzia is just perfect. I’m partial to this “subtle mint” color, but these come in 16 (!) other colorways ranging from neutrals to pastels to jewel tones. They also come in short, regular, and tall sizes, which have 30-, 31.5-, and 33-inch inseams.

The pants are $148 at Aritzia and come in sizes 00–16.

At a lower price point are these pants in “pistachio” from & Other Stories; they're on sale for $74 at ASOS (lucky sizes only).

This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

Sales of note for 3/10/25:

  • Nordstrom – Spring sale, up to 50% off
  • Ann Taylor – 40% off everything + free shipping
  • Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + 20% off
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off all sale and select styles with code
  • J.Crew – 40% off everything + extra 20% off when you buy 3+ styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off all pants & sweaters; extra 50% off clearance
  • M.M.LaFleur – Friends and family sale, 20% off with code; use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Flash sale until midday 3/14: $50 off every $200 – combineable with other offers, including 40% off one item and 30% off everything else

Sales of note for 3/10/25:

  • Nordstrom – Spring sale, up to 50% off
  • Ann Taylor – 40% off everything + free shipping
  • Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything + 20% off
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off all sale and select styles with code
  • J.Crew – 40% off everything + extra 20% off when you buy 3+ styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off all pants & sweaters; extra 50% off clearance
  • M.M.LaFleur – Friends and family sale, 20% off with code; use code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Flash sale until midday 3/14: $50 off every $200 – combineable with other offers, including 40% off one item and 30% off everything else

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

285 Comments

  1. Good morning, everyone! I’m looking to move in June from a corporately-managed apartment in NOVA to a smaller landlord. I’m looking for recommendations for realtors or property managers in inside-the-beltway NOVA who can get me into an apartment where I can hopefully spend years. Or, if it’s only 2-3 years, then get me into another apartment. Corpyburner at the email of g if you don’t feel comfortable posting names here. Thanks!

    1. Huh? Is this even a thing in NOVA? I’ve lived here for a long time and never heard of anyone using a realtor or property manager (?) to find a place to live. I think most smaller landlords post vacancies on Craigslist, or maybe on Zillow or other realty sites where you can search “for rent.” Or they just put a sign in the front yard that the property is for lease.

      Is this a hidden part of the rental market I am blissfully unaware of?

      1. Agreed on using Zillow— that’s where we found our rental duplex in S. Arlington.

        2. I rented a student apartment in Foggy Bottom for 2 years. The landlord’s name is Larry Sendir. He was a good landlord and never increased my rent. I recommend him.

      2. Northern Virginia landlord here. It is atypical to use a realtor, and somebody has to pay for the service, and it won’t be me.

    2. I’ve seen a few of these agents, who seem to mainly work with state dept, military, and others who were transferred to DC on short notice. But it’s rare. Nothing like NYC where it is common

      1. Not in DC, but another city where this is generally uncommon, but my realtor worked with my employer to help new employees find housing. She first helped us with a rental, and a year later we went back to her to buy a house. So maybe try to find something like that, or just check out individual property management companies, which you could find by google or on Zillow or Craigslist.

    3. We were looking for a rental last spring and just used the various real estate sites – I default to realtor.com, but they all work.

    4. Use padmapper. It’s an overlay s_ t e that compiles listings from CL, Zillow, other places.

    5. I am more used to the government transfers, which is why I asked. Thank you to those who provided on-the-ground intel. Zillow it is. :)

  2. Has anyone found the perfect home office chair? Requirements are: comfy, but supportive; low profile; good looking; good for a small space.

    1. I have the Poppin desk chair and it’s an office chair that looks like an office chair, but it does come in a fun turquoise (which might not work depending on your color palette) and a nice slate gray. I’m always suspect of pretty office chairs. 8+hrs in them is no joke on your back/neck/hips/spine

    3. If you are on the shorter side and have the budget, try the Hermann Miller Sayl chair. Traditional office chairs are always too large for me and not ergonomic, even the fancy ones. This one actually fits me (5’4″), has a low profile so you basically don’t even see the chair when I’m sitting in a Zoom meeting, and the white looks great in my midcentury modern home office.

      1. +1, I know it’s a little office basic-b but I love my Sayl, it’s one of the few chairs small enough to fit me (5’4, narrow shoulders) and my son inherited my old one when my company gave us a credit for new chairs/desks at the start of WFH.

      2. Another vote for the Sayl. I’ve had mine 3 years and it’s held up beautifully – still comfy and supportive.

    4. I have a lovely light blue desk chair with white casters and legs from ikea (in the U.K.) that also comes in pink and grey etc. it functions as a ‘proper’ desk chair but having the white base instead of black makes it look more stylish I think.

      1. I think I was eying that exact chair! Unfortunately I still don’t live within delivery distance of an IKEA.

    5. The Container Store Bungee chair might meet your requirements. I got it in blush for my “office” and both my husband and I liked it so much we bought another one for our main computer, which is in a heavily trafficked area of our house so definitely required a chair for a small space that didn’t look hideous.
      I think I may have gotten the rec for it on this site?

    6. I just bought the Kilbourne Faux Leather Conference Chair from Wayfair in white, and so far I love it. Link to follow.

    7. Pretty standard in appearance, but I purchased the Steelcase Leap 2 based on a recommendation here. I am 5’2” and petite. The ability to actually move the entire armrest to a narrower setting (vs angling in the front of the armrest, which is more common) made all the difference for my neck, shoulders and upper back.

    9. I just bought and really like the Branch Daily chair. It’s kind of like the Everlane of office chairs, but it’s cute, comfortable, affordable, and easy to assemble. I’m a fan! FWIW, I’m 5’4” and it’s a good fit for me.

      1. Not OP but I have been very curious about the Branch chairs but do not live near a showroom. Good to know it’s working for you (I’m same height).

  3. Long shot, but do we have any recent-ish George Washington / American grads keen to give me a bit of an insight on campus/academic life? I have 6 students heading there on study abroad in the autumn, and while they’ve got the practicalities covered, they seem a bit uncertain about what it’s like to study at a US university. And my US educational experience was at a tiny Catholic liberal arts school nearly 2 decades ago…

    1. GW is in a better location than American. Both are very much city schools and don’t have campuses the same way that other colleges do, though American definitely has more of a campus than GW. Depending on what classes they are taking, they will likely have some large lecture courses. I studied abroad in college from the US in Spain and I didn’t really know what it was like to study at a Spanish university until I got there – that was part of the experience.

    2. Where are they staying? I used to live in a high rise in Arlington at Courthouse full of foreign students (grad students is my guess). It is two metro stops from GW so a bit of a weird commuter life for them (but maybe that is how it is where they are from). Is there a way the school helps students find each other or is that what serendipity is for? It was far from a grocery store if they are expected to do their own cooking. I guess they can Uber but it would be hard to know at first where to Uber to.

      1. They stay in student housing so logistically it makes things easier. My students keep asking me “what’s the vibe in the classroom?” and I don’t even know where to start.

        1. Surely that will depend hugely on the class. Studying abroad in Germany I experienced everything from Herr Doktor Professor X who told us all that exchange students always failed his class (thanks mate) to incredibly generous academics who were sharing areas of their subjects that they loved

          1. I feel like I had that Herr Doktor Professor. Who also made fun of snowflake students in the U.S. who ‘needed office hours, which kept professors from doing their real work.’

        2. I am not a very recent grad, but I did go to GW. The “vibe” in the classroom definitely depended on the class. Large lectures are very much sit, listen, and take notes on your computer while smaller classes had more class participation. They may be staying in what was known as “I-house” aka international house when I was there, which had a very community-oriented reputation. The international students seemed mostly to hang out with one another and there were a lot of events for international students that helped develop that community. However, I have no idea what it is like in the days of c0vid.

    3. Princeton Review always did a good job describing campus culture back when I was in school. How class compares to what they’re used to may really depend on where they are coming from! I remember getting a amusing but helpful study abroad pamphlet from an Eastern European university that explained that US students often assume that participation will be expected and rewarded so long as it engages with the topic under discussion, even if their contributions display ignorance or errors. Not so, apparently, in Eastern Europe!

      1. I did my MA in Poland and that was very much the case. I’m now in the UK and the “what Brits say and what they mean” is spot on for academia.

        1. I am wishing I had gone abroad, but it wasn’t $ feasible. Do you need to speak Polish to do that?

          1. Nope, it was an English language programme, and like 1/5 of the cost of a US Master’s. There are lots of English MAs in Central and Eastern Europe, and they can be quite affordable.
            I’m the worst salesperson for my own university’s MA programmes because I say “go to Germany, it’s cheaper!”

    4. I went to GW for both college and law school. It was the best time of my life b/c I had no responsibility and just had to do my studying to stay in college/law school. It is a great place for young people b/c there are people from all over. I met people from everywhere and most were very respectful. Women do need to pay attention to make sure they don’t get bamboozeled by men who will say/do almost anything to get us to have s-x with them. I was abel to do so, so your group being properly warned, will also avoid unwanted attention by men to our nether regions. Good luck to you and your group!

    5. DC resident here. GW has better proximity to metro (subway) but I believe AU runs shuttles. As someone else mentioned GW is a compact campus while AU is spread out with more green spaces. Both have decent access to trails/parks with GW having the ability to run/walk/bike to monuments.

    6. GW alum here and lived in DC for 6 years after undergrad. GW is definitely better integrated into the city and is in walking distance of fun neighborhoods, while AU is in a much more residential part of DC. AU does have that more campus-y feel though.

      As far as campus life at GW, classes could be anything from small discussions to large lecture halls. Most people are politically engaged and there’s an emphasis in exploring/integrating yourself into DC. There’s also no football team so you don’t get a lot of the rah-rah school spirit/everyone tailgates before the big game type thing that you would at a large Midwestern public school. There’s also a large international population attending full time, so they may meet some folks from home too.

  4. Good morning, wise hive! DH and I (like so many others) are looking to move and are figuring out which real estate agent to help us. We have bought once before and did not love our agent, just picked a random person on Redfin. He was not knowledgeable about the process. So, this time we would like to do our research. We have a couple of recommendations from friends and one personal friend (our kids go to school together). What do you look for in a buyer’s agent? I would love to go with our friend, my only hesitation is that DH is a really exacting personality (lawyer/engineer) and he is often disappointed by people that don’t perform at his expectation level. I would not want to tarnish our friendship. We’re in DC and looking in DC.

    1. Following! If there’s a list of questions we should be thinking about in interviewing real estate agents, that would also be helpful.

    2. Your husband is not a candidate for your friend. Use the recommendations from your friends. Talk to both and pick who you like better.

    3. DC is a big area, and there will be agents who specialize in specific neighborhoods you might be looking in. For example, I live in a neighborhood just north of Silver Spring and basically everything that goes on the market is through local real estate firms. We did not use an agent at one of those companies, but another who was familiar with the area, and in some ways I’m glad of that because we easily could have ended up with the same small agency representing the buyers and sellers.

      I would recommend looking at properties that have sold recently where you’re looking and see who the sellers and buyers agents are. I would not use a friend, even without your DH’s personality – there are already enough emotions in house buying without managing the feelings of your agent.

      1. +1 to everything about your last paragraph. That’s a good suggestion of how to find a seller/buyer. As a general rule, I don’t mix friendship and financial purchases/decisions. As a rule I don’t hire family/friends for basically anything, because I value our relationship and don’t want to mix business with it.

    5. We went with local recommendations from people in the neighborhood we were looking in (from a friend of a friend). We’re in NYC, so population density makes that kind of hyper local knowledge more common I think. But our agent knew the seller’s agent, was familiar with how coops work in our neighborhood, and her familiarity was ultimately helpful to getting the process done.

    6. My biggest tip: find someone who knows construction. We found our realtor through a rec from my husband’s coworker. He’s flipped several houses on his own and did construction when he was younger, and that background helped him point out things that we would never have noticed on our own (think unstable foundation, poor patio construction, shoddy materials, etc). We’ve lived in our house for almost four years and, knock on wood, have had zero issues whereas many of our friends who bought at the same time have had serious house problems.

      1. We used and loved Heather Carlson- she does DC and VA. She has bought, sold, and flipped countless houses in the area, so she has a deep knowledge of the construction process and can provide lots of servicer recs too, a nice bonus (and she even warned us away from buying a house that was a bad flip, even though it would have been a good commission for her and prolonged our buying process. Sure enough that house went back on the market very quickly after presumably a failed inspection).

    7. What kind of performance expectations does your husband have for a real estate broker? Ours showed us houses, communicated well, negotiated fiercely and gave us insight into the likely consequences of our positions. But that’s pretty much all they do in my state. I still had to hire a real estate lawyer and read Zillow. Frankly, if your husband is a difficult to deal with person, you should probably take the reins. People who work on commission can’t afford to spend extra time making the same commission because a client with fancy degrees need to be coddled.

    8. Ask the friend for recommendations. I think you can couch it as, “We like you and value your expertise, but we don’t want to mix friendship with real estate, so who would you recommend?”

      I’d use a casual friend for a lot of business transactions, but I’d hesitate with real estate just because it’s so personal and house buying doesn’t always bring out the best in people.

      1. If you want to talk to the realtor friend then I think you should say more than “we don’t mix business and pleasure” because realtors rely on their network to make a living. The friend will likely be disappointed, maybe even hurt, when OP goes with someone else. It depends on your friendship of course but I would probably come right out and say, DH and I get kind of intense when it comes to real estate and I can’t in good conscience do that to you.

      2. I feel like that may still be an offensive ask. If you use someone else claim another connection to them.

    9. I know several friendships that have ended when a friend used another friend as a realtor.

      1. But how do you handle the reverse? My friend will be very upset if I don’t give her my listing (selling) yet she is a ditz! My husband would eat her alive. I feel like I can’t win.

        1. My SIL is also a ditz, but she absolutely crushes it at being an agent. When I saw her go to bat for me during a transaction, my whole perception of her changed. Is your friend a bubbly personality ditz, or an incompetent professional? Ask around.

        2. Well you win when you sell your place at the price you want and the process is smooth and stress free.

        3. There’s a realtor in my friend group and a lot of us have used other people. She’s a lovely person but she only does real estate part time, she isn’t committed to making a career out of it, and so she doesn’t have the contacts, inside knowledge, focus, or construction knowledge that you really want in a realtor. She’s always hurt when someone chooses a different realtor. It just is what it is. I would have a canned response ready. “We connected with Sue through another close friend, it was a hard decision, I know you would’ve been great too” or whatever.

        4. Of course your friend is disappointed that you wont give her 3% of the value of your home. But if she’s not going to work well for you, do not hire her.

    10. IMHO you’re going to tarnish the friendship either way – either out of her annoyance you didn’t use her, or her annoyance at you as clients. Pick your poison :)

    11. I am not in DC, I’m in the Bay Area. We found our agent by searching on local listings and finding he and his wife represented a lot in the area we were looking for. Then we called and asked to interview them. We actually called 2-3 to interview (it’s been a while, a bit fuzzy for me) and I distinctly remember one agent was OFFENDED that we would want to interview them before committing. So we went with the duo from the internet and had a great experience. In fact, we’re still friends.

    12. Happy to recommend my agent and a couple others who I know from personal experience are good with the exacting personalities. Feel free to email me at crossedpaws10 at the Google mail.

    13. I’m in DC and would highly recommend Christal Goetz! We’ve bought and sold with her, and recommend her all the time to friends. Her husband is a contractor so she provided great perspective on repair and renovation issues, and was able to provide tons of references for vetted professionals when needed. She helped us through some fraught negotiations and gave very candid advice. It was obvious she wasn’t just trying to maximize her commission or spend the minimal amount of time per client. She is incredibly organized, never failed to follow up, and was just generally a delightful human.

  5. I am getting nastygrams from my health network about unpaid bills, but I sent HSA payment a month ago. The payments are showing as cleared on the HSA side. Why does medical care have to be so MFing hard? So sick of these pointless hoops.

    From now on I’ll pay the bills myself and then request reimbursement from the HSA, which a few people have recommended to me IRL, but in the meantime over six grand is magically missing.

    1. This happened to me—I paid the bill the day I received it and the billing company insisted they hadn’t received it. They called and emailed me every single day for a month which was horrible. It didn’t stop until I got a copy of the check sent from my HSA’s bill pay function and sent it to them.

          1. Why aren’t you using it instead of having the HSA send checks, then? It runs through the same payment system as an ordinary debit card.

          2. I normally do, but that wasn’t an option for this office or billing company. I don’t know why you are assuming that was an option or would have prevented this issue. Bill pay only sends a physical check when the biller isn’t set up for electronic payments from the HSA account.

    2. I’m sure you’ve called your HSA administrator already, but if you haven’t, please do. And yes, the American healthcare system is miiiiserable.

      1. Yeah, I had to do this once. I had paid a bill using my HSA debit card (pretty sure I paid through the HSA website instead of through the medical provider directly) and the provider kept sending me bills. I had to go through this whole rigmarole to get the HSA to give the provider the information on which payment batch it was a part of so the provider could identify the payment. And I also sent the provider a nastygram letter in response to one of the bills telling them to basically go to heck, I had already provided all of the information I could and they needed to work with the HSA. It got resolved, but it took way too long on my end.

    3. I have completely lost faith in using my FSA’s debit card, which magically seems to result in payments not going through, getting rejected, getting lost, etc. I had the same experience as others here, where I paid a bill with the debit card and the healthcare billing company insisted they hadn’t gotten it and called every day for two weeks. Plus, my FSA still asks for invoices and payment receipts even when the payment is to “Office of Doctor So-And-So, Endocrinologist.” If I am going to have to submit paperwork every time I use the card, I might as well just submit for reimbursement and not bother with the debit card, especially since it doesn’t seem to work consistently.

      1. This. I just throw all of my receipts in a file with a running tally written on the file folder. When I hit my max, I submit everything at once. Even if you don’t wait for the whole amount, doing it this way is so much less stressful.

    4. This happened to me once. My HSA cut a check and sent it out. The hospital gives me confirmation over the phone that they received payment and my balance is zero. But I kept getting messages from their third-party billing company that I still owe the amount (along with threats that they’ll send it to collections, the nerves). It took several backs and forths and legal threats from me for them to find the glitch in their system.

    5. Ugghhhhhhh agreed about how pointless the health care system is. Think about all the money that would be saved with universal healthcare. Although I suppose having middlemen for middlemen for middlemen probably does create a lot of jobs.

      1. This is why we are never going to have universal health care–too many people are making money off the inefficiencies and inequities.

        1. More efficiently than private health insurance? Yes. Dealing with my health insurance company is easily the least efficient, least transparent process I’ve ever encountered, anywhere.

          It’s got to be some kind of crime against humanity that this is how lot of people spend their last months alive, trying to get their insurance company to come through on covering treatment for their terminal illness. USA has a doctor shortage and yet my doctors spend so much uncompensated time on prior authorizations and appeals. Or don’t! And people die preventable deaths while waiting on insurance to call back. It’s a nightmare.

        2. Yes, I think so, and I seem to remember that there are studies backing this up. Government offices do a lot with not a lot of money. You might get the runaround with the DMV and with your healthcare billing provider, but which one of the two is costing 8 grand a year just for being able to access their service (and then pay more)?

  6. Does anyone have recommendations for sources for a window treatment (a shade, most likely) for a hard-to-fit window? I normally don’t have the budget to do custom anything, but this is both an unusual size and something I have no experience with, so I figure it’s worth the cost. But since it’s just one window, is it even worth it for a window treatment company to come out? I’m probably overthinking this, but any suggestions would be appreciated.

    1. I have several roman shades from SelectBlinds, and I really like them. You can customize the size to your windows, and there’s usually a percentage off happening.

    2. If you are open to it, we’ve gotten several window treatments from Blinds dot com and have been very happy with them. I’m guessing you can custom to almost any size. The people on their phone line the times we called for advice were shockingly helpful. My husband installed all of them himself. He can be handyish at times, but not exceedingly so.

    3. Is the shade for light or for privacy? No curtain looks are pretty trendy right now, so I might be tempted to go with a pretty privacy film if light is not the issue.

    4. I’ve used blinds dot com for windows like this. You can request free swatches and it’s super easy to order to your exact measurements.

    5. I recommend measuring and ordering a custom blind from Home Depot. I’ve done it a ton with Levolor products. There’s often a sale. Measuring isn’t too hard, the price is reasonable, and the delivery is relatively swift for a custom product. Installation is easy. Just need a drill.

    7. I’d go with Etsy over the options listed or West Elm /Pottery Barn, they do custom sizes for Roman shades.

  7. SA, I got to your story of cornbread French Toast late yesterday, but I read it with great gusto. Thank you for reporting back! It’s on my list now to make.

    1. … I wonder if you could make bread pudding with cornbread. Or would it fall apart and become polenta?

      1. I was wondering that, too! I don’t know why not! We will have to try it next time we have Chili and Cornbread Night!

        1. My husband’s favorite pancakes are cornmeal pancakes with blueberries. I know this as I wrote “Husband’ Favorite Pancakes” on my recipe card. He gets them on his birthday, Father’s Day, etc.

          1. Cornmeal and blueberry is an AMAZING combination. I love blueberry cornbread, corn muffins, cornmeal pancakes, etc. There’s just something about the flavors that goes together perfectly for me.

    4. I’m a regular consumer of cornbread (Californian but my dad was from South Carolina) and I like the leftovers best as cubes for dressing or stuffing – honestly this alone is a really good reason to make something that takes stuffing – but you could do as my dad did, which is crumble it in a glass of buttermilk and eat it with a spoon. It was probably his favorite snack, so there was rarely leftover cornbread for long. It’s also good crumbled into any soup or stew at the table to give it some body.

      Save your bacon grease next time you make bacon, and make some real southern cornbread in a cast iron skillet:

      https://www.southernliving.com/recipes/southern-skillet-cornbread

  8. Does anyone have the experience of taking a job to break monotony or boredom? I posted recently about interviewing for non academic positions after years in academia. I have interviews coming up for positions directly related to my current expertise and others that require some skills I have but in a different field. It’s a good thing that I am still getting shortlisted for research related positions in my field of study i.e. environmental sciences but I also feel really bored by this work. As I have interviewed I have realized that the jobs I find interesting are those in non-research departments. At the beginning of this process I was looking for a challenging role like the one I have but the ones coming up are almost the same as what I did before. Wondering would it be a mistake to accept a role that may be less challenging on the quantitative side for example but in a different business area just to break the monotony?

    1. No experience yet, but I’m definitely thinking of it. I am so bored with the same old stuff I’m doing. I had a job offer a few months that would have taken me in a different direction, but I declined since it would have been a pay cut and less flexibility to work from home. I don’t regret not taking it, but I am having daily fantasies about doing something new!

    2. A lateral transfer to a business role could actually set you up for management over time. You can use your quantitative skills to track financial statements (e.g. Profit and Loss, or P&L), forecast revenue etc, and ensure profitability. If that level of responsibility is present in the business role, it will set you up for growth.

      1. Signed, started as a business analyst; moved to Product with P&L responsibility; moved back to a more analytical product role; now a senior manager.

    3. I would absolutely do that. Having a boring job makes my life absolutely miserable, a lesson I have learned the hard way.

  9. Would appreciate the hive’s thoughts on a career/home predicament.

    DH and I have agreed to move out of state for personal reasons. We both love the DC area, but the only other place I can keep my same in-house job is NY. I love my job, I’ve built up a ton of political capital over the last decade, I have upward mobility, and my department and manager are great. Given my niche practice area, the odds of me landing a similarly fantastic job in our desired location are low. I’ve tried to convince DH to give NY a try, but he really don’t want to deal with that kind of winter, the commuting challenges, and the cost of living. I get it, I do, but it makes me sad that this means I’ll have to give up what I’ve worked so hard towards this last decade.

      1. I would have to be in the NYC office 3 days/week, so we would likely be in northern NJ.

        1. I don’t know anyone who commuted into NYC actually going in unless they are people who prefer the office these days. I seriously would push on any employer who required 3 days/week now and if that level of face-time importance is worth buying into.

          1. My company’s office in NYC is requiring 4 days/week right now and definitely expects this going forward in a post-covid world. (I am personally full time remote and I work with business partners who are mainly not in NYC.)

          2. My husband who has been 100% remote since March 2020 is back 2x week, variants be d@mned.

          3. As of today our office is back in the office 3 X per week in NYC. They gave us a break from it for January but made it clear the break is over as of yesterday/end of January.

    2. I’m also confused. Do you mean upstate NY? or do you mean NYC?

      Either way, that is sad, and I hope your husband appreciates what you’re giving up. If you don’t have kids and are renting, it doesn’t seem crazy to try it for a year. is there any splitting the baby? I.e. you rent a room for T/W/R once a month in NYC and commute up?

      1. I do this, I’m away Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and it’s not sustainable long term (and I feel like an environmental criminal), it’s working for now, until we can figure things out. Do I want to be doing this commute in 5 years? No, but for the next 2 or 3, it’s totally fine even with a kid.

      2. We do have kids (1st grade and preK), and I don’t want to spend that much time away from them.

        1. Are you sure NYC commuting allows for a parent to be on one side of the Hudson with kids needing a pickup on the other side? Is husband going to be in NJ somewhere? Maybe if you get a nanny or work PT it will work, but needing to be somewhere at 6 on the dot was very life-limiting for working in NYC without human cloning helping me out.

          Maybe if you are somewhere on the PATH or Midtown Direct, but my office moved from WTC area to 7th Avenue and I was just done with trying to make that work.

          1. DH would be fully remote, so he would be able to handle pick up on the days I went into the office.

          4. No doubt that people do this, but I can see my friends screaming into the void from the traffic on any number of area roads every dang day in pre-COVID times. It got much better once they had kids who could take the bus home (middle school) and they could confirm via nanny cam / find my iphone that the kid was at home and had not managed to burn the house down (whether homework gets done is another matter . . .). But it is so white-knuckle, especially for moms.

          5. I think that a problem in law is that the hard stop is very illusory. I’d give up a lot for that and with kids, I can’t just flex on leaving time or social services is going to get called at some point. Once a year running late b/c of an accident / car trouble is one thing. A workplace that doesn’t get “I need to leave by 4:45 (or whenever)” is just not going to work out long-term.

          6. My husband and I used to commute from Long Island. Even on a good day, where you left on time and caught the right train, the railroad could just…not get you home. Say a stalled train or someone on the tracks. Then you’re stuck on a commuter train while daycare closes. We had (and needed) a backup and a backup for our backup. I don’t think it works without local family.

          7. Both of us have been doing this for 20 years plus. We live in Cnetral NJ (Princeton area) and commute to city 5 days a week (except for past 2 years where it has been remote mostly). But now both back in office 3 days a week. There are express trains which get you to NYC in an hour.

        2. I did it for four years, when my kids were in elementary school. They’re fine. It was great for my career and really boosted my salary, which stayed at the NYC level after I left that job. I flew Monday night and came home Friday night. We were one of those bicoastal couples.

          It was also great for my husband’s relationship with the kids because he had to do more of the heavy lifting of getting them home from school, feeding them, getting them through their homework (though the math homework still required a facetime with me), bathed, and off to bed. Our kids are in college now but he remained a very hands-on father after that experience. I would say we’re one of the rare couples who was actually 50/50 (really truly, including the emotional labor) over the long term.

    3. If you are in-house, can you not work remotely? A friend is in-house, remote for company A for 5 years, then at B (local, but then remote due to COVID), and now at C’ which bought out B and is still remote due to C not yet having offices for all staff in our city (and perhaps permanent remote). It is very niche. She is the lost employee I keep trying to hire back, so she is that good and everyone knows it.

        1. I can’t imagine a legal role, especially in-house, that can’t be done remotely. Was it not remote during lockdown? Once I saw the trading floor go remote, it really opened my mind to what “can’t” be done remotely.

          1. It can be done remotely, but my company won’t allow it to be done remotely. I tried.

          2. I think you might take it as a sign they are not as hugely invested in you as you are in them, if they won’t allow remote in order to retain you.

    4. NYC is a brutal lifestyle. I’m not sure what is being gained by keeping you in your same job, but with higher costs and taxes and disliked weather. For a couple to move successfully, both need to be happy or at least neutral. This proposal doesn’t seem to be a winning one. Can either or both of you be remote from a third location that you like? I know so many remote niche people now who have not stalled out b/c of it, especially if they aren’t newbies.

      1. I think I’m sad in part because it feels like he isn’t even considering it, and I can’t do my same job – which I love – in another location. I was hoping we could give it a try, and then if either of us doesn’t like it after a couple of years, we leave, even if that means I have to find a new job. He’s in a completely different field, so he doesn’t appreciate how hard it is to find a great in-house job with a lot of upward mobility, a great team, and good pay.

        2. I hear feeling sad, but NY is an extreme lifestyle and the amount of money you would spend to try it for a few years will have a huge impact on your family savings so I also see his perspective. If he was like “let’s try living on a farm in rural Arkansas for a few years” would you be up for that?

    5. This is just wrong AOM around. Don’t move! If you can’t move and keep your good job.

    6. I’m confused. What are you moving toward? Usually, people have a specific destination in mind because of a job or wanting to be near family/friends, or simply a desire to live in a specific place. What’s motivating the move? I think you need to clarify what you’re trying to achieve with uprooting your life because it sounds like you have a good thing going in your current position. Is remote work a possibility? I don’t blame your DH for not wanting to move to NY; that’s a very specific lifestyle that’s not for everyone.

      1. i agree with this. have you already selected the other location? does DH have a new job in said location? are there family reasons to move to the location? i know you said for personal reasons, but your happiness at work impacts your happiness at home

      2. Agree, I would stay in DC if the alternative is commuting to NYC for the same job. Why leave DC for a more expensive, even more difficult commute?

        1. +1. If you don’t like the DC area, I cannot imagine that you will like northern NJ more. Worse commuter, higher COL, equally competitive schools/extracurriculars, etc.

          1. I hadn’t thought about extracurriculars. I cannot imagine being something like a soccer parent or swim parent and commuting into the city. I lived in a NJ town with a boarding school where most kids came from NYC with I guess parents too busy to manage work and school logistics, so those kids went home for the weekend, but it was easier during the week to board an hour away from home. Ugh.

      3. As am I. Did you agree to move without agreeing to a certain city? Or did you think you would be able to work remotely from whatever city, USA when you agreed to move and then your job said no to remote work from anywhere but NYC?

    7. I have lived in NYC, in DC, and now upstate. You can do this but I think you need to be really strategic. “Moving to NYC” can mean a LOT of different things. You mentioned northern NJ. Where is your office? If it’s on the east side, that’s dumb and you should live in Westchester or CT if you’re going to the suburbs. Are you going to live in a place where you could walk to the train? What are the taxes like where you are planning on going? I think you actually need to run numbers on commuting time and cost of living and go over them with your husband.

    9. Like the others, I’m so curious what personal reasons could be this significant. I have a similar unicorn job, and my husband’s job, which is vastly more outwardly prestigious than mine, comes second in our home to mine just because we both recognize I’ve found the holy grail.

      Would doing something like moving way out to the end of a train line do it? Aren’t there people who commute in from Harper’s Ferry on the train? Is the VRE service to Richmond almost in place? What about Delaware where Biden used to commute from? Just spitballing here.

      1. Unless it’s moving to local family that will help you when there is trackwork delaying your train (etc.), I am not seeing a benefit that makes sense. I love my job and I’ve worked hard, but as a married with kids person, my job isn’t the only consideration driving what our family does. And we are no happier than the miserable-ist person.

      2. Yeah, my mind is leaping to what are probably unfair and inaccurate conclusions regarding the “personal reasons.” Good jobs that someone really loves are not easy to find. I would not live in NYC with kids, period, and would not relish living in that area even if it was just me (too many people, too much commuting, etc.) I will just say “there’s no geographic solution to an emotional problem” and so if the “personal reasons” involve something deeply emotional, therapy is a better idea than a big move.

        1. Personal reasons don’t involve something deeply emotional. We have family in both locations (not our current location), hence the desire to move.

    10. Are you just asking permission to feel sad that you have to give up a great job, or are you really looking to make this work in NYC? It’s ok to feel deeply sad to leave a great job you love. OTOH, you’ve gotten a lot of advice about the pluses and minuses about moving to NYC if it’s something you are both still seriously considering.

      1. Mostly just asking permission to feel sad. I understand where my husband is coming from, I just wish he were more open to the idea.

    11. How strong are the personal reasons and what are you moving for? I left NYC because of the winter, commuting challenges, and cost of living, so I totally get where your husband is coming from. New York has a lot of great things, but I felt like it was life on hard mode, and that was without kids. (I’ve also lived in DC, currently live in NC).

      1. OMG same. Moved from NYC to DC and DC to NC as a single person. I love visiting both places for 5-6 days of what a workweek can be, NC is just so easy. I can’t imagine going back and commuting. It was fun for a while but it eventually wore me out.

  10. Looking for recommendations on a budgeting software; I currently use Mint but don’t love it. Here’s what I’m looking for in a software.

    – Ability to track savings/networth in addition to spending
    – Categories and subcategories for what I’m spending. For example, I can say that the $100 I spent on concert tickets were spent on entertainment, but also were spent of the subcategory of concerts.
    – Ability for money to roll over from month to month. Using the example above, some months I buy several hundred dollars worth of concert tickets, but some months I don’t buy any tickets.
    – The ability to split purchases. For example, if I put my and my friend’s concert tickets on my credit card, but she Venmo’s me for her ticket, I’d like to document that I only spent $50 on my ticket, not $100 on the whole transaction.
    – To be really picky, I’d also like the ability to split a single transaction. For example, if I spend $100 at Target and $50 was buying groceries and $50 was buying clothes, I’d like to split that into 2 categories.

    1. I do not use YNAB to track net worth, but with some fiddling, it can do all the other things you describe except the subcategories (you’d have to set up an envelope for each).

      Split a transaction between categories — out of the box functionality.

      Roll money over month to month — happens automatically. If you’ve set up the expense as monthly, it will then prompt you to add the monthly amount on top of what you’ve rolled over.

      Split across friends — either assign your friend’s Venmo payment to you to the concerts subcategory, or eliminate that transaction and your credit card payment and manually enter $50.

      3. You can do the subcategories in YNAB. Instead of the broad categories of Fixed expenses, periodical expenses, savings, etc, the big categories would be more granular

    3. I’m picky and cheap so I just made my own spreadsheet that does exactly what I want- I don’t really care about budget, so I don’t bother with that, I just track spending, but it wouldn’t be hard to add in. It’s more work, but this way I can format everything the way that works for me and actually have a record of pretty much everything I’ve bought for the last decade, which is very effective for helping me manage spending and saving.

      1. This is what DH did also. He created a spreadsheet in Google Sheets that has all the information he wants to track (income, monthly expenses, net worth, various investment accounts and their growth/losses, forecasted net worth, property tax and federal income taxes, etc.). He has added and subtracted columns over the years.

    4. I do all of the things you’ve listed in Mint – do you just not like Mint’s functionality/interface?

      1. Same – Mint does all of these things. Although I don’t love their new (maybe a year old?) interface. Having to click twice to make each individual notification go away drives me crazy, but I’ve been using it for 8 years (when my net worth was in the negatives!) and I’m not about to give up all that data.

    7. EveryDollar tracks savings, would allow you to create a Concerts subcategory and then make it a sinking fund so you can contribute to the fund each month and spend from the same fund some months and check on its balance at any given time, and allows you to split transactions amount multiple subcategories.

  11. What criteria do you use when choosing hand bags for every day use? For a long time I bought in discount stores like TJ Maxx usually non-leather. Usually they need replacing within a year when used daily. I do not mind doing this because these are inexpensive bags, if they peel or fray I discard and get another one.
    But lately I have been considering if it is better to get a cheaper faux-leather everyday use bag and a more durable leather bag that can last longer for work, important meetings etc–there are times I cannot replace a specific style I like, but would have loved to use longer if it were more durable. I am not really into nylon bags and for leather the options I would consider in store are between 100-200$, so not high end, but hopefully the material wears better than faux-leather. Thoughts?

    1. I have a Dooney & Bourke leather bag. I received it as a gift almost four years ago. I’ve carried it around basically everyday for almost 4 years, and it looks as good as new. There’s absolutely no fraying on any of the straps, and the leather is in good shape. I could probably keep it another 10-20 years. The style is closest to is about $258. If you’re the type of person who carries the same bag everyday and wants to keep the same bag for years (and years), then it’s definitely worth buying real leather.

      1. Vintage (or classic vintage-style) Dooney and Coach are my only bags. I think Coach gets a bad rap but their simple leather styles are classic and high quality.

        1. My 20-something daughter has permanently borrowed all of my leather Coach bags from the 80s and 90s. They look fabulous. She has remarked to me several times about how these hold up and the quality of the leather. I drew the line at my Dooney crossbody, which I still carry.

          1. I had to check whether I wrote this. Same with my daughter. I didn’t save them all and now wish I had!

    2. Not a fan of faux leather at all. Huge fan of Cuyana’s real leather totes. They last for years and years and have a lot of options.

      1. Same. Love Cuyana for quality and price point. I have the larger black tote, and a smaller camel one for summer. Both look great with the monogram.

      2. +1. I have used my same Cuyana tote daily for three years with little visible wear and tear (and I am not careful at all with my bag).

    4. I bought a gently used leather tote off Poshmark. It’s an older J.Crew open top tote and I love it to pieces. I could have afforded it new, but I’m cheap, and am thrilled to have what amounts to an unlimited supply of these bags (I mean, J. Crew made a million) should mine kick the bucket.

    5. I’ve carried the Able Mamuye Classic Tote since 2019 and it’s wearing pretty well. It’s right in your price range. Definitely still durable and no quality issues. The leather certainly shows wear, but I’m not gentle at all with my bags and use them ever day.

    6. I love my Coach leather bags. I have had a couple for many years now and they wear beautifully. I think they are good quality for the money.

    7. I’ve had a Cuyana tote as my every day bag for almost 4 years now and I love it. It’s held up fantastically. I actually bought it as retail therapy when I was going through a hard time and it wasn’t exactly a responsible purchase for me at the time. Turns out to have been a fabulous investment. I don’t think I’d go back to buying cheaper, lower quality bags.

  12. I need a new bed frame/headboard for our king bed Our walls are Behr Campfire Ash. We have a large blue-toned art piece over the bed sky meeting the ocean horizon shot) that we are working around which is to be hung centered over the bed.

    We’re trading out of big, bulky mahogany brown furniture. I’ve had a cozy fabric type headboard on the brain for a while. Does anyone have a favorite? I’m thinking of using Wayfair vs. Pottery Barn or the like given the horrendous lead time to order custom pieces. Any recommendations or favorites out there? TIA.

    1. We got the Casper Haven Bed Frame in September and I was surprised how fast it came. It says “ready to ship” and did when we ordered it, but it still took about 3 weeks. Considering the supply chain and other furniture, we weren’t mad about that. We have the lighter color but the darker color may be better for you. We like it a lot!

    2. Be careful of the upholstered headboards. Staining from your head is apparently a very real thing with them, so if this an investment piece consider the short life.

    3. Have you looked at Thuma? I ordered a queen bed from them a couple weeks ago, and it was at our house two days after I placed the order (via FedEx). The fabric headboard has a cover that can be washed or switched out for a different color.

  13. Looking for recommendations for where to rent in South Carolina from Murrel’s Inlet south to Pawleys Island for a week spring break in March….preferred rental company? resort? property? Appreciate any recs.

  14. I’ve been on the pill since I was a teenager, and I’m in my mid-40s now. I’ve missed two periods in a row (I know they’re not “real” periods), and this has never happened before. (A nurse at my ob/gyn office said to call back if it happens again next month.) I mean, I can’t complain about NOT getting a period, but I’m wondering what’s up. Perimenopause?? My weight hasn’t changed, my diet hasn’t changed, I haven’t missed any pills, and I’m not pregnant. Has this happened to anyone else?

    1. Yes — mainly cr@ppy living on my part, sometimes with stress. Dang thing always came back though but in 40s, maybe you are slowing down?

      1. Interesting… I’ve been frequently feeling exhausted for a year or two (beyond pandemic stuff), and after various bloodwork was mostly normal last year, my PCP was like, “I dunno, maybe do a sleep study” and my ob/gyn was like, “I dunno, maybe get a Lyme test” (I did neither), so maybe perimenopause could explain the fatigue, especially because the pill can suppress some peri symptoms…

        1. My best friend’s main perimenopause symptom was fatigue. She saw three different doctors and a holistic practitioner and went through what seemed like an endless battery of tests, where nothing was found, before she went in for her annual exam and her GYN gently told her, what you’re experiencing is perimenopause. She had a hard time accepting it, but it was the truth, proven by the fact that she got on HRT and it got much, much better fairly quickly.

          FYI, I have another friend who is 45 and has missed three periods in a row and was told by her GYN it is menopause. She was told it isn’t even considered “early” menopause at 45, just a little earlier than average. So if you’re mid-40s, I would say, better than average odds you are in at least perimenopause right now. Also FYI, my mom told me in her late 40s she would skip six months at a stretch but still had an occasional period until she was 55, when they finally completely stopped. This can go on awhile.

          2. I’m 55 and still having 6-8 periods each year. Skipping occasional periods started in my late 40s.

    3. I don’t have an answer, but I appreciate you posting. I’ve also been on the pill nonstop since I was a teenager and am now in my early 40s. I’ve wondered if my body will start skipping the fake periods at some point. Your data point is interesting.

    4. Semi related question – I have heard people say they went straight from Mirena to menopause, but if you are a person who isn’t bleeding with Mirena, how do you know?

      1. You kind of don’t. I had a Mirena all through my late 40s and early 50s, and when I had it removed at, say, 54, I had no more periods and that was that. I had a total of one (count ’em, one) hot flash and some perimenopause mood swings in the early years, but really I sailed through.

      2. I am 44 and got my fourth Mirena this past summer. I am going to leave it in 7 years (this is totally fine and actually recommended according to my GYN) and then take it out at 51 and leave it out for a while and see what happens. I will have been on a Mirena almost continually for 20 years by that point. I’m already having plenty of Peri symptoms, so my GYN’s guess is I’ll be menopausal by that point. My dream is to have SA’s easy experience after I get the IUD removed. My GYN was very pro on my getting the new IUD and leaving it in; apparently her experience has been that women who are used to the Mirena by the time they hit their late 40s have an easier time in peri because of the progesterone support.

        1. This is fantastic to know, I am due for a Mirena replacement in a few months and am mid-forties. Thank you!

        2. Related question: I’ve been considering going on the pill for the purpose of a bridge to HRT when I go through menopause. Will it have the save except as the Mirena that you’ve described?

          1. Yes, I’m on the pill for that reason (never stopped, just good BC for me and recommended as a way to skip right into menopause basically symptom free).

  15. In prior times, Everlane had a 1″ heel with an elastic back that was so comfy. There was even a JCrew knock off. Both of my pairs are in need of replacement, but nothing like this seems to exist. Or does it? [I will buy a lot of things second hand, but not shoes, sadly.] Or anything similar?

    1. Oh gosh, I LOVED those shoes. Wore them into the ground. And no, I haven’t found an exact dupe, but Talbots does have a similar low heel round toe pump that they offer in different styles most seasons – tortoise heel, sling back, etc. It’s called the Isa. Looks like they don’t have great options right now in this awkward season. I have a pair and they’re as close to my old workhorse shoes as I think I’m going to get.

      1. They’re on preorder now for late Feb/early March shipping, but they’re bringing them back. If the link doesn’t work, search “day heel” on Everlane :)

  16. On a frivolous note, I’m trying to plan a beach vacation. I’m looking for the most walkable but least resort-dominated area of Hawaii. So far, I’m looking into Kauai and Big Island, but finding it hard to parse neighborhoods remotely. I’m hoping to stay somewhere low-key, with decent walking access to a coffeeshop, grocery store, restaurant and surf shop. None of these establishments have to be big or fancy – I’m looking for a small village, really. My issue is that while I plan on hiking and beach excursions, my husband melts in the tropics so we need to stay somewhere with a sense of place where he can wander around independently. Any thoughts would be enormously helpful!

    3. We just did an Airbnb in Lahaina, Maui and it was exactly what you described, A cute, very walkable little village. We loved being able to get up and walk to the beach, to breakfast, out to bars and restaurants for dinner, etc. The big resorts are up the road about 10 minutes in Kaanapali. Those beaches are a bit bigger than the beaches in Lahaina, but it was fun to go up to the Kaanapali one day to see the huge, long beaches and gawk at the crazy resort swimming pools.

      1. https://www.oldkoloa.com/

        it’s cuter and smaller than it looks on this website.

        It’s a drive to the beach, not a walk, but you get to drive through that famed tunnel of trees to get to the south shore/Poipu, which is a vacation all by itself.

  17. Routine bloodwork came back with a “concerning” high white blood cell count. This is often caused by an infection but I wasn’t sick as far as I know at the time. I’m going for repeat tests but of course now I googled and convinced myself I have cancer. Has this happened to anyone else?

    2. the part about googling and convincing myself that I’m on death’s door? That sounds familiar!

    4. I am prone to “silent” ear infections and I get these results when that’s happening. High WBC seems to be the answer any time your body is stressed.

    5. I randomly had a lymph node that was swollen and absolutely no other symptoms and then tested positive for strep. It swelled up a few times after that but I was just told its my immune system working on something essentially, and as long as its not for that long and there aren’t any other symptoms don’t worry about it.

    6. I have a couple of chronic conditions and every time I have blood drawn, some value or other is out of whack. Blood tests aren’t perfect. I assume they’re having you wait and take it again? I wouldn’t make much of a single test.

      Any possibility you had asymptomatic covid and your body is still in fighting it off mode? I would go with the most likely thing in today’s climate, which is covid, as a starting point. Easier said than done, of course.

      1. I did have a terrible cold (not COVID, tested negative multiple times) before Christmas that lingered for weeks, so maybe that’s it. I am going back for more tests. Fingers crossed!

    7. Yes this has happened to me a few times. Dr. ordered a follow-up test a few weeks later and it was back to normal. Never identified any specific infection or felt sick.

    8. It could definitely be a mild/asymptomatic infection like a UTI you didn’t notice, but labs make errors sometimes too. I have to have blood drawn monthly for thyroid stuff and one time a couple of my numbers came back totally out of whack. They retested me a few days later (without any adjustment to meds) and everything was normal again. The doctor said they probably mixed my test results with someone else’s. It happens!

  18. Tl;dr: how do you get references for a job you’ve been at forever and your performance hasn’t been that great lately?

    I’ve been at my current company for well over a decade and done several different jobs within the company, but I think it is time to move on. I will never get paid what I should be paid here, and I have been super burned out for the last couple years. Unfortunately, that has also shown in my performance. So I can update my resume and apply to jobs, but how do I go about getting references in this situation? This is a place where people stay for a very long time, so all of my former managers from the last 10 years are still at the company. And some of them I frankly haven’t done stellar work for – ok work, but not stellar. Some of these people I still interact with, some of them I don’t. Who the heck do I ask to be a reference? Can I ask someone on my team who is more senior to me but not my direct manager? What about a former manager who didn’t think I was that great, but might agree that I should move on and support that? How do I do that without my current manager finding out I’m interviewing? Do I go back to a project manager who loved me but I haven’t talked to in at least 2 years (and whose area of work is different than my current area of work)? Do I really need all of them, because companies are going to want multiple references? Or should I just level with my current manager that we both know things aren’t going well, and if she promises to be a solid reference I will give as much notice as possible so they can figure out how to backfill my role? I am super unlikely to be let go for having that conversation.

    Have you ever been asked to be a reference for someone who was a B (or even C) employee? Did you give a good reference because you knew they needed it and hoped they would do better in their next job? I’ve never been asked to be a reference for someone else leaving our company (never been a direct manager either) but would happily do it if I felt there were at least a couple good things I could say.

    1. Do you have anyone who has left from before you burned out? They would be an ideal source! Otherwise, you are in a bit of a tough spot with everyone knowing everyone at the current place, and trying to keep interviewing quiet. I’m sorry, this sounds rough, but I am sure you can navigate it with sensitivity!

    2. I’ve been asked to be a reference by B/C employees and was more than happy to do it because I knew that a change of jobs might be the best thing for everyone concerned. Most references just ask to confirm employment, and only a few have asked me questions about performance, which I kept rather general and played up their strengths (none of these were bad employees, just underperforming ones). I wouldn’t overthink it!

    3. As for your concern about asking for references before you have a job offer, I would tell the company you’re interviewing with that you’re happy to provide references once you’re at the offer stage. I wouldn’t do it beforehand.

    4. I have been asked for references for a B/C colleague, and while I wasn’t terribly impressed by their work product at my company, I had reason to think the mismatch was as much the company’s fault as theirs. I was honest with the reference, spoke to their strengths and tried to frame their weaknesses in a way that would be helpful to their candidacy. Said that they would do well in a role that offers autonomy instead of micromanagement, that while public-facing positions are not their forte they shine with the detailed and tedious tasks like creating audit files, making sure data is clean, etc. Basically tried to help the reference caller see what type of role I think they would thrive in.

    5. I’ve given a solid but not utterly glowing reference as a manger in that circumstance. I wouldn’t want to mislead the new employer just to offload a bad employee, but where I think someone is generally competent enough but the fit hasn’t been great or for whatever reason I genuinely think they could do really well in the new role, I think it’s fair to give them a good enough reference to achieve that.

      In my industry (and I’m not in the UK) references are becoming increasingly rare though – most employers will only confirm dates of employment. I now only tend to get the opportunity to provide a meaningful reference if I know the new employer and they reach out informally.

    6. I’ve never been asked to provide references from a current employer, since that gives the job search away, but your longevity may prove an obstacle.

      What about former colleagues who have already left the company? They are more “safe” from the perspective of not blowing your cover, which you can point out to the hiring team, plus they could be unaware of your current performance, which is good in your situation.

      1. +1. I was in a similar boat before I moved into my current job – the role I was in wasn’t a good fit and I was really struggling. I used references from the department I’d worked in previously.

      2. Not really, unless I go back more than 5 years. I haven’t been in touch with any of them since they left.

        1. If you did good work for them, they will remember that and will be happy to serve as a reference. Just reach out to them now and ask if they would be willing to give you a good reference? I know I would be happy to say yes even if we hadn’t spoken to each other for 5+ years.

    7. Your new job may or may not need references, so don’t jump the gun. Are you at a late stage of interviewing?
      If not, you can ask the former project manager who loved your work to write up something on LinkedIn as a reference there, to start. No need to tell your current boss yet, but start networking with contacts in the industry.
      Once you get to a late stage interview and they want references, pick someone who has a positive impression of you – even if they were a peer, client, industry contact or not a direct manager. I would prioritize that over someone who knows you well but is not necessarily going to say glowing things.

      1. I was in this spot and I reached out to business partners I had collaborated with who were no longer with the company. Since they weren’t my day to day coworkers, I gave them a prompt. “Hi, I’m applying for a new job and am looking for references. Would you be able to give me a positive reference from our time working togehter on project XYZ?” Don’t hesitate to go back a few years to find someone. Covid has been eleventy thousand days long, so five years ago for a reference is sort of like yesterday.

  19. Does anyone else find the Kanye West – Julia Fox relationship kind of cringey? I would totally be fine with the relationship itself (which I have no knowledge of, but both are consenting adults), but he is clearly having her wear certain clothing items (as if she were her Barbie to dress-up) and basically trying to remake her? If I was friends with her in real life, I would say “GIRL RUN!” Anyone who cares that much about how their date dresses in public has to be really insecure/appearance conscious and/or controlling. Am I overthinking this?

    1. Totally gives me ick vibes. I think part of it is that it has been paired with the whole “impromptu” showroom set-up—with a first date that looked like a love bomb situation and I’m not even someone who thinks in terms like that. Screams controlling.

    2. I personally had never heard of Julia Fox before this relationship, so I would say it’s going great for her.

    3. Maybe not cringey, but I find it fascinating. I assume their relationship is almost entirely transactional, and I hope Julia gets what she wants out of it. Kanye does not seem to be in a particularly healthy place the past couple of years, to put it lightly. Julia seems savvy and I’m curious to see how it plays out.

    4. The same thing happened with Kim K when they were together, and they were pretty open about it. Observers often point out how much her style changed as he developed the Yeezy aesthetic of the time. KK’s outfits got a lot more streamlined and neutral–then when they split up she posted a photo of herself in a matching red workout set, which some interpreted as a statement of departing from the look he liked her to wear.

      Do I think Kanye is likely controlling or unstable? Yes. Do I think his partners are helpless? No. Am I weirded out by all of this, past and present? Yes. Would I want anything to do with anything like this myself? No.

      1. I get that Kanye could be controlling, but I cannot imagine him doing anything but what Kris Jenner says.

        1. I think the divorce happened when the cost-benefit analysis of his activities stopped working for Kris. I think if he was stable, he might have been able to toe the line longer, but he isn’t so he couldn’t.

      2. this. Any knowledge I have about anything Kardashian is from buzzfeed, and it’s no secret that he dressed her, basically like a Barbie Doll, and generally seems to need things to go according to a script in his head. If the new gf wants to play that game, at least she knows the rule book.

    5. I saw on instagram that there is a theory this is all PR. I hadn’t heard of her before this, and now everyone knows her name. Kanye and Julia are being courted by different brands/companies to attend their events, restaurants, etc. I did think it was very cringey, but now I view it under the light that they’re putting on a show.

      1. Yes– I think regular people struggle with this because we’re looking for a distinction between what celebrities do authentically vs. what they do for publicity or money. Some really don’t make that distinction. Again I think Kim and Kanye’s relationship is a good example; I see it as both totally real and totally commercialized. (I’m using present tense because they’ve done at least one stunt together since the divorce, some clickbaity music video of his)

        1. Ordinarily yes, but with Kanye there is the added layer of his enormous mental health issues. Is this a publicity stunt that he is in full command of, or is it manic behavior? Is she being exploited, being manipulated, being drawn into his delusions, or exploiting him? That and the age/fame difference, which implies a power differential, are what make it so icky.

          1. I agree with all of that and am not comfortable with it either. “Just putting on a show” and “gross or exploitative” are not mutually exclusive.

    6. Unless Kanye is digging up dates from directly under rocks, these women have to know the giant dumpster fire they’re signing up for. So either she’s savvy, or just plain moronic. Either way, let her sink or swim.

    7. this is judgmental and I admit that but I don’t know who Julia Fox is but when I read her Wikipedia she/her people have made sure to include that she worked as a dominatrix for a period, that she posed fully nude in playboy, that she sold an art collection of paintings painted with her blood so she is very clearly a somewhat calculated person who is looking for ways to get attention. I am sure she is getting just as much out of this as Kanye.

    8. The thing I can’t get over is that he recently did her makeup, like himself, and it looked SO BAD.

  20. In need of advice…I was recently invited to a friend’s bachelorette party in Vegas. There are 20 other girls invited, and I know 3-4 of them aside from the bride to be. My connection to these women (and the bride) is through my husband, who is good friends with all of their significant others and would love for me to be closer to the wives as well. I’m flattered that I was invited, but at the end of the day I don’t really have much interest in taking PTO and spending $1000+ on a trip that is going to involve a ton of binge drinking and clubbing with people I don’t know super well. And I’ve known (most of) these women for about 6 years at this point and while they’re nice and I don’t actively dislike them, we have never clicked. On the flip side, I have some social anxiety that I’m trying to work on and my therapist (who is on maternity leave) and I have been working on exposures – so part of me is questioning whether I’m just making excuses because I’m nervous about being in a group setting with new people. GAH. This shouldn’t be that hard but it has been driving me absolutely insane. And if I do say no, what do I say? Help!

    1. I don’t have social anxiety, and the thought of taking a vacation to Vegas for a bachelorette party involving individuals I don’t know well sounds awful! There are so many more fun ways to spend money and vacation time. Do you want to spend the PTO or money on this? If so, say yes and try to have a wonderful time! If not, say no, you are sorry but you can’t go. Maybe send flowers to the bachelorette’s hotel room or something, or send the party a bottle of champagne if you know where they are going. Choose something else to get exposure for your social anxiety, there’s lots of options out there!

    2. That sounds like a nightmare tbh and I’m not someone with social anxiety. It’s okay to just say no or cite COVID concerns.

    3. i wouldn’t go. say thanks so much for the invitation, and then either decline bc of covid or bc you dont have enough PTO and if you want to, tell the organizer you will sponsor a round of drinks or something and venmo them $100. if it was a local bridal shower and you wanted to use taht experience to combat your social anxiety i would say you should go, but this is something that would be miserable for many people, in addition to being expensive

    4. I wouldn’t go. PTO doesn’t grow on trees and I feel that (excluding trips for very close family or friends) vacations should be to locations and with people I genuinely want to see.

    5. As for what to say, I would just say that you aren’t able to go but hope everyone has a great time. You could send a bottle of champagne to the hotel room if you feel so inclined. No need to elaborate. If anyone asks, I would claim limited PTO time. 20 people invited means that you won’t be the only one declining.

      1. +1 I think less is always more in these situations. I can’t emphasize enough – for all things – that politely declining things with no explanation is a perfectly fine thing to do. Once you start giving reasons, feelings get hurt etc. There is no upside. (If you get specifically asked why as a follow up, that’s another story).

        1. Yesss about politely declining things with no explanation. I also remind my husband a lot (as he’s venting that he “has” to do something he got invited to) – an invitation is not a summons. You can say no, without explanation, for whatever reason you want.

    6. I hear you, this sounds awful to me. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want to stay home. If you’ve been invited for specific days, I think you just apologetically decline and say you have a conflict on that particular date. If you’re still in the planning stages and they’re asking for your input on dates, it’s a bit trickier but I think either pressing work commitments for the next few months or budget constraints could be good reasons for politely declining. Either way it might be a nice touch to send them a gift they could enjoy while they’re there, maybe a few bottles of champagne?

    7. “Thanks so much for thinking of me but unfortunately I won’t be able to make it!”
      You couldn’t pay me enough to go on a bachelorette trip to Vegas with 20 people lol. Trust me, there is a huge gulf between “working on exposure for anxiety” and “giant bachelorette trip with people you hardly know.”

      I said yes to a huge bachelorette party in Miami with a bride I knew mostly through my husband and while it was totally fine it was also a massive waste of money and as someone who’s not big on matching outfits and clubbing, a lot of time spent pretending to have fun. Skip it!!!!!!

    8. Could you go for part of the time? Like 2 nights if it’s a 4 night trip. Play it off as you wish you could stay but have an unavoidable work commitment?

    9. I give you permission not to go and it doesn’t have to mean you are bad at socializing. I’m sure your therapist would agree there will be other opportunities to flex those social muscles that are less costly and don’t eat up your PTO. That trip sounds stressful tbh. Just say you are bummed you can’t make it but it overlaps with your busiest time at work, you hope they have a blast, and you are so psyched to party with them at the wedding. I may be projecting but I hate the expectation that we are supposed to be best friends with our husbands’ best friends’ wives.

    10. Agreed. I would definitely send something as a goodwill gesture, but I would absolutely decline.

    11. You say “thank you for including me. My schedule doesn’t accommodate my attendance.”

      I’m an introverted extrovert and I’m all for pushing my comfort zone to meet new people/make new connections. But to spend PTO and travel money – no thank you. Will there be a local shower/brunch/etc? lean in to those activities

    12. Okay the breath of relief I just let out reading all of these comments is extremely telling. THANK YOU all for the helpful perspectives! I’m going to decline today and put a reminder in my calendar to coordinate a champagne surprise with the MOH. And then maybe spend some time thinking about why I felt like I needed permission to say no to this…lol

      1. I don’t know whether you’re coming back to read comments, but good for you for not going, and you don’t need a reason beyond you don’t want to go.

        On the champagne, it might go over well if you have it delivered to the bride’s hotel room/suite in Vegas.

      2. YAY! I posted before seeing that you’re not going. Thank goodness you’re letting yourself off the hook!!

    13. If your husband is good friends with the spouses, then it sounds like he should take the lead on throwing a party or initiating dinners out. As a spouse who is is excited to get to know the wives, you’ll cheerfully go with the flow and have a good time in 2 to 3 hour time chunks.

      Hard pass on Vegas.

      1. This is how I met 30+ cool people in my husband’s running club. Invite 4-6 people over for dinner, get to know them a few at a time and build some connections in short blocks of time. Once I got to know several of them, larger parties became much more enjoyable with the same people!

    14. As a general rule, I think it’s best to avoid attending celebratory trips that you’re not super excited about. They require a lot of emotional energy and if you can’t fall back on genuine enthusiasm then you risk coming off as distant when your energy flags.

    15. You say you’re looking to work on your sa but are you actually looking to develop or strengthen female friendships? If so I’d go. Id probably leave the club early bc it’s not my scene but I would welcome an opportunity to get to know my husband’s friends’ wives better. It will make future gatherings more fun. $1000 and a few days wouldn’t break my budget our impact the rest of my PTO so ymmv.

    16. The only person who could get me to go to Vegas would be my lifelong best friend. This is a big enough group that you will not be the only person politely declining. I would send some champagne to the room to be festive.

    17. I’ll be the dissenter and say, is it possible to go for a limited time – say join them for one dinner or one outing day? That will give you some exposure to spending an evening with people you don’t know all too well, but still save your PTO? You would have made the effort to connect, improve your acquaintance with one or two folks, and maybe have a nice outing in the bargain.

      1. Flying to Vegas for one dinner is insane. I wouldn’t do that for my BFF, let alone the wife of my husband’s friend.

        1. Agree. I think it’s way easier to skip the whole thing than to do part of it.

      3. I would do this. Leave work a bit early on a Friday, fly to Vegas, enjoy the sights and the crazy Sat/Sun, fly back early afternoon Sunday.

    18. Oh heck no, you couldn’t pay me to do this! You really don’t have to spend your exposure therapy on this particular jaunt. The expense and PTO are dealbreakers on their own.

      Also … just because your DH wants you to be closer to the wives doesn’t mean you should feel obligated to. You’ve tried, and you don’t click. I have a group like this (our DHs travel together), and I felt so much better when I ditched the expectation that I should be gal pals just because our husbands are good friends. They’re all perfectly nice people but also not women I feel a strong connection with.

    19. oh lord, no. 20! girls! nope nope nope. Granted, I pretty much travel with my husband exclusively and all group trips sound awful to me, but that sounds especially awful.

      There’s a part of my friend group that does this sort of trip and it’s a really big nope for me. I have three different friend bachelorette parties of somewhat close friends that I’ve skipped successfully with this script:

      “Thanks for the invite! I’m not going to be able to make it. Hope you guys have a great time!”

      The end. no more excuses. You don’t need to do anything further. We’re still friends. We had fun at the weddings. I never once regretted not going to the bachelorette parties.

      Honestly, from what I’ve heard of some of these bachelorette parties, they sound so horrible. My friends are professional women with lots of degrees and great jobs, but a few of them really like to party still and they seem to really dominate these trips. At a big destination bachelorette party last summer one of the other girls literally flew home early because it was such a bad time, and a mutual friend was furious at the end. After another trip a couple months later, a friend tried to gently suggest that to the same set of friends that perhaps they could do a beach vacation instead of a clubbing/partying trip – it did not go well…LOL….

      Not wanting to go sounds very normal and healthy to me.

    20. Even if I wanted to go I wouldn’t do this sort of trip right now with Covid. For someone I don’t know all that well? Heck no.

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