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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Extra Fine Merino Crewneck Cardigan

Uniqlo continues to be one of my favorite places for affordable basics. I’ve had one of these merino cardigans for years, and it still looks fantastic. It’s 100% wool, but it’s not bulky and never feels itchy to me. It also comes in 13 (!) different colors. For washing, I put it in a large lingerie bag, use the gentle cycle with Woolite, and dry it flat.

I’ve found that it looks just as good with a blouse and trousers as it does thrown over a t-shirt and leggings for working from home or running errands.

The sweater is $29.90, marked down from $39.90, and available in sizes XXS–XXL. Extra Fine Merino Crewneck Cardigan

Sales of note for 12.5

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

430 Comments

  1. How many times a day do you change outfits? And what do you do with “worn but still too clean for laundry” clothes in between wears?
    I change into WFH clothes in the morning, then athleisure, then PJs but inevitably end up with a pile of clothes in the bedroom because I can’t figure out how to organize them.

    1. Same as you. I have hooks in my closet that I use for PJs and after-work athleisure – I wear the same stuff all week unless it gets dirty. For WFH attire, we keep a section of closet rod open for “lightly worn but not dirty” stuff so that it can air out a bit before the next wear.

    2. Ah, German has a word for this state of dirty/not dirty, and perhaps a special stand. I use hooks, but could see a valet stand working. I am #teamathleisure though so don’t end up changing clothes, leggings on bottom, something semi professional on top if necessary, then I shower and change into PJs.

      1. I am not sure if this is a cultural thing, but Grandma Leyeh made Dad stop dating (sleeping with) a European woman from Queens who just “aired out” her clotheing rather than laundering them properly. The problem is that the clothes do not lose the body odor, and each time the smelley clothes are reworn, the woman’s body heat causes the old smell to come out worse then before. She said she did not want to have a daughter in law carrying that “Geruch” into her living room. So Dad had to tell her he could no longer date her and he then married Mom.

      2. What is the German word? I have worked with some Germans (and some Swiss people who are German speakers (maybe they are all tri-lingual + English?)) and their wordsmithing is always so interesting to me (I took Latin, so I have literally nothing to offer on the language front other than to find it a fun hobby).

          1. Cb, it is properly called “Geruch” according to my Grandma Leyeh, who has royal roots in Eastern Germany. I wrote about this earlier, but it has not shown up on the websight. FOOEY!

        2. I don’t know that we Germans have a special word for it, other than adjectives like worn or half-dirty to describe these clothes. There is a furniture piece that some people have, but I wouldn’t say it’s super common. Google brings it up if you search valet stand, which is pretty close to the German name.

      3. My husband and I call it half-dirty–not clean enough to put away with the clean clothes, but not yet dirty enough to be washed. We each have a designated spot on a closet shelf for half-dirties.

        For work clothes that get worn multiple times between cleanings, I have a system that involves dry cleaning tags and hanger direction to indicate how many times the garment has been worn.

    3. I change out of work clothes and into workout gear, and then into rattier athleisure for the rest of the night.
      Like the other posters, I like hooks for jeans and pants that aren’t too dirty. I use the dead wall space inside my closet (not a walk-in) to hang items by their belt loops, along with belts, scarves, bags, etc.

    4. Same. WFH clothing (nice sweater) in the morning, with leggings; keep the leggings and change to ratty sweatshirt while making dinner & chasing kids around; shower, and then PJs. Work clothing gets folded and put on a spare chair.

    5. My dresser has two half width drawers at the top — I keep worn “house clothes” and PJs in there. Work clothes (dresses, pants, sweaters) just get put back where they normally go because I usually wear something numerous times before washing/dry cleaning, and do so based on appearance/smell, not number of wears.

    6. On non-workout days, I just go from wfh clothes (jeans + sweater/tshirt) to pjs.
      On workout days, it is wfh clothes + workout clothes + pjs. If I workout mid-day, I do wfh clothes to workout back to wfh clothes.
      Things like jeans and pjs get reworn a couple of days in a row. Pjs get piled on my nightstand or my side of the bed. Jeans get hung up on a hook or draped over a chair in the bedroom. I’m one of those strange people that prefers wfh in real pants vs leggings.

    7. Yeah, this has been a weird dilemma of WFH. I have finally got a routine where I wear workout clothes in the morning (Zoom top if planning to be on camera), work out at lunch time, then change into something comfy to wear through evening. All my calls seem to be in the morning, and my co-workers are slobs on Zoom calls, so I don’t worry if I get a pop up call in the afternoon. My “workouts” aren’t especially sweaty, so I fold up the workout clothes when I’m done with them and put them on top of the dresser and wear them again the next day.

    8. I tend to change pants but not tops a lot (Usually athelisure pants for WFH->jeans if I have to actually go outside the house->workout pants). Jeans/athleisure pants to be worn again go on the floor of my closet, and bras go over the door handle… It’s not exactly the neatest system in the world, but it works.

    9. I have a standing floor-length mirror with bar and hooks at the back that I use for this. Got mine from Ikea.

    10. I have a hook over my closet door on which I hang things in this dirty/not dirty state.

    12. I keep the bottom bureau drawer exclusively for partly-worn clothes, but in winter I add the drawer above it as well. Sweaters are the bulk of this category for me; I always layer, so they stay clean unless I dribble lunch on them.

      I don’t change for WFH, we don’t do video calls. I live in bootcut yoga pants and sweatshirts these days.

    13. I put workout clothes on first thing, then change into whatever I’m wearing for the rest of the day then PJs. I very occasionally put joggers on after I’m done with work, but that’s it.

      I have an old fashioned clothes horse which worn-once clothes get draped over, jeans go on a hook by their belt loops, and dresses hung on the outside of the wardrobe.

    14. WFH clothes (basically athleisure) and then pajamas when I’m going to bed. If I was going to seriously work out, I guess I’d change in and out of those clothes and back into my WFH clothes.

      I have “the chair” which just has an ever-growing pile of clothes on it. Although in the WFH environment where no one can even see the bottom half of my body, I’ve been making a conscious effort to just wear the same pants every day until they’re ready to go in the laundry, so I can keep the pile down.

    15. I also change clothes that often. I keep a “not dirty” hamper and an “actual dirty” hamper to keep things tidy.

    16. I’ve WFH since 2012 so I feel like I have this down. Wake up, shower, put on clean athleisure. If PJs are still clean enough, put them on a towel bar in the bathroom (or if bed is made, folded up on the bed). Get kids dressed/to bus/to learning pod/to daycare. Swap top for Zoom appropriate top and do makeup if needed (not all days are on-camera days). Top goes on towel bar in bathroom.

      At the end of the day, I put my still clean and good for wearing again athleisure in the bathroom on a towel bar or back into my drawer and get back into the PJs that are already in my bathroom. Everything else goes in the hamper.

    17. You want the honest answer? They live in a pile on the floor and I pick clothes out of them as I wear them again, until they’re dirty enough to go in the hamper. This is one area where I am not the fully functioning adult I appear to be on the outside.

    19. I have a low dresser at the foot of the bed (lower than the footboard) and things that are folded there are meant to be worn again. Also things like scarves. I wear a hoodie or a cardigan all day including over my PJs at night, so that goes there when I get into bed and back onto my body when I get up. (We keep the house chilly)

      1. To be clear, they are folded and on top of the dresser. I don’t have a special dresser for half dirty clothes.

        I don’t want to put half dirty stuff back in the closet or back into a drawer. That bothers me for some reason.

    20. I throw my PJs back on the bed.

      I have a drawer in my dresser just for half-dirty clothes like workout clothes I never actually worked out in or workout bras I didn’t get sweaty in. I keep my half-dirty bras and half-dirty sweaters in another one.

    21. Ladies, I really need advice as I am very confused. I started at a law firm as a Mid-Level Associate two months ago and have been working remotely, but I have met the team before. I was on a deal where I worked tirelessly and very hard and we successfully signed, but since then my team has ghosted me. I had to travel a week before signing for a family emergency, but was constantly online and worked the whole time, so it did not impact the deal. I am not invited to any calls even though the senior and junior associates are invited. I have not gotten any work on the deal since the signing. From the start of the deal, the senior associate never delegated any work to me, but I always took the initiative and started working on things myself and informing him about it. Then, after signing, I asked him for feedback and he said that I did a great job and he liked how proactive I was. I have emailed the senior associate and partner several times about next steps without any responses. Why was I ghosted? And, how do I navigate this situation? This is my first post on Corporette and I really hope your wisdom would be helpful here.

  2. Does anyone have any recommendations for cute winter shoes that have the comfort of sneakers? As a single woman in the northeast, I’m hoping to continue doing walking dates to get through this winter. I’ve just been wearing cute sneakers and jeans, but, now that it’s getting way too cold for my ankles to be exposed, I’m struggling with footwear. My cute booties aren’t very comfortable for 3+ mile walks, my Bean boots feel frumpy and aren’t actually great for long walks, and I just can’t get onboard with wearing my sneakers with socks that show. Recs for any super comfortable cute boots? Thanks!

    1. I have some Kork Ease booties that are comfy for all day walking. I sized up 1/2 size from my regular size/the size I wear in their sandals.

    2. I have a pair of teva boots that I have done a decent amount of walking in. They are waterproof, relatively warm with good socks, and the footbed is comfortable. The exact model I have isn’t available anymore but they are similar to the Ellery boot on Amazon
      Sorel is probably good for this purpose too.

    5. I haven’t bought any *yet* and am not quite sure they are my style, but the Doc Marten trend is HUGE this year. I would think that style shoe or any Chelsea boot with a lug sole would be perfect for your needs.

      1. I have been wearing my Docs from 1992 lately and trying to convince myself that I don’t need to buy more. I might look a little middle-aged lady trying too hard, but I love them so much I don’t even care. I am so glad they are back in style!

        1. Buy more Docs. I just finally bought a new paid – buckles, not laces! – and I’m as giddy as I was at 13 over my first pair.

    7. I got the Lennox Chelsea Boot from Sorel as cute-ish but practical for walking booties, and they have been great so far for long dog walks etc. They aren’t AS cute as my 2 inch heel chelsea booties, but those are comfy enough for a day of brunch and stuff in the before times, not for the endless walking we do now.
      I also got these mid-rise Sorel sneakers that are not nearly as supportive but I think you could put an insole in and would be pretty good. They are warmer because they go up high.
      https://www.zappos.com/p/sorel-lennox-chelsea-velvet-tan/product/9400055/color/870086
      https://www.zappos.com/p/sorel-out-n-about-plus-mid-kettle/product/9400633/color/105672

    8. Sketchers seems to have some good warm weather boots that look both cute and functional, maybe try there? They have a sale going on this weekend too.

    9. I’ve had good luck with both Sorel and Ugg fashion lines (for lack of a better word to call it). Last season, Ugg had a kind of motor cycled inspired ankle boot with fuzzy lining that was super cute, yet comfy.

      1. I have the Ugg chelsea boots (bonham?) and they’re really comfortable and durable. This is my third winter with them.

    11. If you wear straight leg jeans that hit slightly lower on the foot instead of ankle length, sneakers and socks is totally fine. That’s what I wear all winter when I go out.

  3. My friends and I are thinking about organizing a speed dating event among our single friends. Any idea on how to go about doing this? We thought we would keep it to 20-30 people on Zoom, let everyone introduce themselves in the beginning. Then we would send them to one on one zoom rooms. They can text us afterwards about how they are interested in. And if there is a mutual match, we would share their contact information.

    1. I would skip the introduction round in the beginning. That can be really long for 30, even just 20 people.
      Otherwise it sounds like fun!

    2. Also, any idea on how to market the event so that it would have a fair gender ratio (but keep the sketchy people out)? Most of our single friends are women, and we don’t want a scenario where it’s 25 women to 5 men. The problem with making it public to everyone, is that the quality of the people would deteriorate.

      1. That sounds so fun! Could you have everyone reach out to their friends and friends of friends and pre-select who will participate? That might be too hard if everyone already knows each other’s friends. Or ask acquaintances from church, yoga classes etc if they are interested or know anyone? I feel like everyone has single friends that they would love to set up! Good luck!

      2. Are you and the other folk setting this up also single and planning to participate? If not, this seems icky and voyeuristic to me. I think it would make more sense if everyone participating was going to be someone one of you knew personally, but it sounds like it will be women you know personally and rando dudes.

    3. No concrete advice except to check out the Schitt’s Creek episode to see how Alexis ran this event :)

  4. I feel like we are heading back down into Lockdown 2.0. Was this because of Halloween? Post-Labor Day fatigue? Temps dipping?

    I could not WFH any “harder” than I already am. Kids have been home from school since March. We have nothing left to do that could help with things. Thanksgiving and Christmas will be just us, at home. I have nothing left to throw at this virus and yet I really want to help get us to the point where we are past this. We have a house and yard, so our germ situation is and will likely continue to be static.

    Our R is >1 and ticks up by a few hundredths each day. Ugh.

    1. I think it’s combination of cooler weather, complacency, exhaustion from fear and worry, as well as holiday celebrations. The virus fatigue is real. So many people I know are also just sick of worrying. And I think it doesn’t help that there has been no consistent messaging and some people just don’t want to care about this anymore. I wish we had some PSAs (like the German one that went viral recently) to encourage people as we head into the home stretch.

      As it is, I think some of the new restrictions are not helpful. Unenforceable laws about your own home just lead people to not take rules seriously IMO. Emily Oster had a good Op Ed in the NYT about this. As for what you can’t do, I think you’re doing it! Hang in there!!!

      1. We cannot plan on the assumption that people will not take things seriously. That is not the way to make laws or to respond to science. It would be even worse if we did not provide those guidelines because those very people you are speaking of would really take that as a free-for-all. We have to let science rule the day and find ways to get the message through to people, but we cannot make a policy based on the lowest, stupidest common denominator in our society.

        2. I could see how rules that seem totally out there would maybe cause people to say screw the rules. Or maybe the strategy is that the guidelines will be super strict that even those that don’t follow them perfectly will try harder to at least be cautious. Armchair psychology wise I could see it working out either way, which is why experts with ‘useless degrees’ such as English, communication or media studies should probably research how it actually works.

        3. You absolutely should make recommendations, but you should also give people the tools to mitigate risks you know they will take. It could be as simple as ‘this is the best thing you can do. If you won’t do this, at least do x and y, and definitely no one do Z.’ Instead there is largely no differentiation, just ‘don’t go see your family on the holidays’ or whatever, when it could be ‘if you refuse to follow best practices, makes sure everyone at least gets a rapid test (which is not entirely reliable but better than nothing) and try to maintain social distance and open all the windows if outside isn’t an option’

          It’s like preventing teen pregnancy or drug use. Ideally they abstain but you also need to be realistic that some won’t.

        4. Public policy person here. Human behavior is part of the science on which good policy is based. We need to make policy on the basis of what people will actually do, not what they “should” do. You have to make the right choice the easiest, most appealing choice. Moralizing at people and then expecting them to do the right thing doesn’t work. If it did, there would be no drunk driving, obesity, or drug addiction.

      2. Entirely agree re: recent laws. Especially when the same politicians imposing them don’t follow them themselves (see: Gavin Newson recently). It just prompts a sentiment of “why bother”. I live in DC and I really liked the recent Thanksgiving guidance Bowser put out – rather than a sanctimonious “only paper plates” type guidance, she categorized activities into low, medium, and high risk. I know it persuaded at least one small group to move their two household thanksgiving outside – I know, ideally, one household, etc, but inside to outside is a significant improvement!

        1. That strikes me as a toddler attitude. “What you just said, I’m going to do the opposite!” Are there really a lot of adults who think like that?

          1. I’m the Anon you replied to – I’m not saying they say they’ll do the opposite, I’m saying they see the recommendations as so onerous that instead of doing something less onerous but still helpful, they throw the baby out with the bathwater and just do what they want. Read Oster’s Op-Ed, it’s really good, and she has data from path public health crises to back it up. It’s basically like abstinence only sex-ed – we know that doesn’t work, right? So we teach teenagers how to use condoms (which, while better, isn’t perfect). Similarly, doing things like encouraging people to get COVID tests before and after travel isn’t ideal – the ideal would be not traveling – but it’s better.

          2. Yes, there are a lot of adults with toddler attitudes unfortunately. Not everywhere, but it’s a cultural problem. So many people my age are trying to manage their rebellious Boomer parents right now.

          3. A lot of people? You can think it’s childish but data shows the current approach isn’t working. Calling people who are planning large gatherings toddlers hasn’t prevented them from having them for months now, we need to try something else

          4. We definitely need real leadership first and foremost, especially in the red states, but I also think that when you expect nothing from people, they give you nothing. It’s more complex than that, of course, but I do think people respond to your low expectations for them.

          5. Anonymous at 11:48 – I agree we shouldn’t have low expectations but a lot of people view verity onerous restrictions as having low expectations of their own common sense. Not unlike some of the constantly evolving pregnancy recommendations that treat grown women like children who can’t be trusted to not harm their unborn baby by exercising good judgment about food choices.

    2. It’s the same worldwide, it’s just really hard. I’m in the UK, and England is on a 4 week lockdown (with schools open) and various parts of Scotland are in different degrees. I worry that people are burnt out but also see the vaccine as the end in sight.

    3. I think it was the loosening of restrictions over the summer pretty much everywhere. Restaurants, bars, even gyms were reopened in many places during the summer. I think you’re doing all you can, but there’s plenty of people out there who aren’t (for the US, see the states that didn’t mandate mask wearing in public indoor spaces at least…)

    4. This was predicted back months ago that late fall would spring up like this if the virus wasn’t properly contained. It’s just math! You can blame the inept federal response to the Northeast, then the governors in GA and FL who didn’t push mask wearing which led to SE spread, and by that time it was a matter of time before it got to the upper Midwest/rural areas which seem to be the most “Covid is a hoax” areas. We are only as strong as our weakest link and boy do we have weak links in this system.

        1. Well, people were out in a lot of groups all over the summer, but I don’t think we really saw a DoomSturgis taking place after it happened (there was one article that was pretty instantly discredited). [Ditto beaches; ditto protests.] It seems that our current worldwide uptick is not likely related to this incident (so: everything is to blame — every single time someone left their house when they didn’t have to; went inside with unmasked others; kissed a stranger; was human). If even Gavin Newsome is having problems with quarantine for thee but not for me, it seems that doing the known right thing 100% of the time is unrealistic.

          I will go back to my regular doom scrolling and reading of articles.

          1. Here’s the thing with exponential growth problems: Sturgis wouldn’t have caused a huge immediate bump in cases, it would have caused a few extra cases that cause a few extra cases, accelerating spread in a minor way that resulting in the fastest growth of cases in north and south dakota in the world (i.e. exactly what we’re currently seeing.)

          2. But Sturgis was a long time ago. Look at cities with ongoing protests. You just don’t see giant spread there either in the right time frame. Our city’s R was lowest this summer where many people were at beaches and doing a lot of instate travel starting back in May. R just went over 1 recently (weather?).

          3. There is a massive difference between Sturgis and BLM protests. Protests have been outdoors, more distanced (even if not ideal), most people have worn masks. Sturgis featured indoor concerts, packed bars and restaurants, minimal mask-wearing. I don’t think the rally was the one cause for the horrific situation we’re in now, but it, along with college campuses reopening, kicked it off.

            I say this as someone with family in Sturgis (who didn’t want the rally to happen, even though it is their economic driver), and whose great aunt is dying of covid in SD right now.

      2. So it’s the federal government’s fault in blue states but the governors’ fault in red states? I’m sorry but no – the curves look the same everywhere, including the EU.

        1. The numbers and positivity rates are not the same everywhere. NYC closed its schools because it hit a 3% positivity rate. My state has been over 20% positivity for at least a month.

        2. OThe rates are not the same everywhere. And the governors had the benefit of having seen what happened in other cities, so no they aren’t off the hook

          1. even if the shape of the curves is similar, the magnitude of curves isn’t the same everywhere! scale matters!

          2. +1 not remotely the same. They’re all increasing right now but on a per capita basis the upper Midwest/Dakotas area is shocking.

      3. I have a bitter memory of making a comment to this effect on here many months ago — I think what I said was: if we don’t sufficiently suppress the virus in initial spring lockdown, simple logarithmic math tells us that after “opening up” we will just be in the same place as we were in March. I was roundly derided for saying this. (Not by you, Lauren B, but by many others).

    6. We have not done a single social thing indoors since March (and 2 outdoors, distanced and masked). That is not the case for everybody I know, but it’s always been a different ballgame for high-risk people. Honestly, I am just putting 1 foot in front of the other and it’s fine. I have a lot of practice now.

      1. I’m the OP. I’m not high-risk and all grandparents are a plane ride away (and pretty much stay home; wouldn’t welcome visits). We can’t do anything b/c schools are closed and our kids are too young to leave home alone (one, bless her heart, likes cooking on a gas stove, and now that there no lunch lady, that is a challenge/opportunity for growth/opportunity to make sure house insurance has been paid). I am marginally effective at my job at times, which will probably lead to maybe some salary loss as I am effectively 3/4 time now and yet often work until 10 due to constant interruptions (what I miss about the office — my only in-office task is to work).

        But our lives could be even more disrupted if one of us were to become severely ill (and especially if we became severely ill sequentially and not concurrently).

    7. I think it is largely red states continuing to open their economies back up/having never done much in the way of mitigation at all plus winter naturally making people more vulnerable to respiratory infections like cold and flu.

      I’m a little confused on what advice (if any) you’re asking for. You say you have nothing left to do that could help things and that you can’t wfh any harder. I’m reading between the lines that you feel like you should be doing more but you can’t. I pose the question of why you think you should be doing more or “working harder” or getting better (wtv that may mean to you). We are in a global pandemic, you are being reasonably cautious for your area, you are working, your family is healthy – you are doing great. Life does not always have to be a march towards improvement or perfection. It is perfectly normal to just exist, to cope, to hold steady, and especially in times like these.

      I’m no therapist, but you sound like a tweak of perspective would help more than any actions.

      1. I’m just wondering — where are some people who need to work to eat and may catch it even though they are cautious but not everyone is (and it may be somewhat inevitable that if you work on a COVID ward, you may get it). Outdoor mask shaming on NextDoor was out of control this spring, so that approach won’t work. I’d like to see stockades come back for people who got it partying (I know of a few of these). Or some sort of real shame that it’s because of them that live music venues will go out of business and women have left good jobs b/c they have no childcare (two daycares in my area recently shut down so now those moms are going crazy with trying to WFH with toddlers).

        Like what would really move the needle?

        You can’t really have a contest of giving prizes to zip codes with low spread.

    8. CA here, each county loosened restrictions on a rolling basis as permitted by their numbers. The last wave of loosening which sent young children to school, plus more community circulation due to Halloween and the election, collectively resulted in an uptick that means we are having to dial back again. If we can just all hunker down for a bit, we can break the chain again.

    9. Maybe some Halloween parties, but you can’t point to just one cause. Fatigue, loosening restrictions over the summer. Colder weather reducing outdoor options. School. College. Inability to quit working or work remotely for 8 months. I’m not saying this is okay, just stating the fact: people may be willing and able to severely restrict their activities for a while but they cannot or will not necessarily sustain that level long term. My law firm is an example. Everyone was fine with a 2 week shut down that turned into a several months delay. But now that cases have stagnated for 8 months, the picture is different. Courts are trying to restart things. Depositions, meetings, case development can’t be put off forever. Lawyers need to bill or the firm will collapse. Of course everyone should do these things remotely but that’s just not how people behave. A partner I work for is 62 and believes that he’s just fine. He flies to depositions and holds in person meetings, only wearing a mask if the client/witness wants to. Other partners in their 60s come into the office every day and expect their associates to do the same. Extrapolate this across the board — many businesses and restaurants are opened because the alternative is financial ruin. People are going out because they perceive themselves as low risk and have been out such and such number of times and it’s “been fine.” People who are single or live alone are suffering in isolation. People miss their friends and family. 3 months of zoom calls is quaint and novel. 8 months of no in person contact is very difficult psychologically. People view large parties as huge risks and are willing to avoid going to a 200 person wedding, but incorrectly see their 15 person indoor multigenerational family gathering as less risk. People are bad at assessing risk. This is how exponential growth happens. We all learned about it in the 5th grade. In no way surprising.

      All this is not even addressing the large portion of the population who doesn’t even believe the virus is real or that it’s okay to let “old sick people” die to save the economy for the young, or who won’t wear a mask because freeeeeeedoms or something.

      1. And this is why we need government intervention. The government needs to require these businesses to close and pay people to stay home. If people have supplemental income to get through the crisis, the businesses and economy will be there when we reopen. It can’t be a one time $1000 payment. It needs to be a minimum of $2500 per person per month.

        Also, in really bad areas, even the grocery stores and pharmacies should shut down and the national guard should deliver food and medication.

          1. Right? Holy cow tax the billionaires and corporations and pay working people to stay home. Why on earth is this so hard??

          2. Some people would travel though and a lot would party down if they didn’t have work to go to. Kids will be home from college and zoom school. I think we are doomed absent becoming a police state.

      2. On the lawyers need to bill front, the attorneys at my last firm had the exact attitude you are describing – the firm must make money so we all need to come into the office and have everything be in person! No one wore masks either.

        I left that firm for another that is largely WFH with the office open if we need it. You know what? My new firm is making more money. Most profitable year in it’s history! Meanwhile, the partners at my old firm are taking a pay cut now.

        1. Yeah, I don’t understand the in-person emphasis at law firms – it’s like if I am out for two weeks with COVID, or hospitalized, or die – well, I won’t be able to bill then for sure. Multiply that by all your attorneys. I am 100% sure that calculus (as well as concern for our health and the public’s health) went into my firm’s decision to stay WFH until the spring.

    10. I think it’s a combination of the fact that people are back at work/school, which can be done safely if people are behaving, and certain, extremely unsafe activities are happening. For example, from some close to home contact tracing– my dad is currently quarantining awaiting a test after he had a close contact who was positive. My parents go to work and are masked and only see people socially in their pod in pretty responsible ways. Close contact was someone in the pod he spent time with outside and pretty distanced. Close contact always wears a mask, etc. Close contact found out he was positive, but asymptomatic, after his employer made everyone get tested after another employee got sick. The original employee who got sick got it at a large wedding he went to.

    11. Don’t forget that many, many places have never had any restrictions whatsoever, including most of my state. People all over the country have been going to work, school, church, bars, social events, vacations, etc with no masks or social distancing this entire time. Now the virus has spread to these places from the cities, and there are still NO mitigation effort. Add that to what other commenters are noting about cities, and you get an explosion of cases.

      1. You’d never know they had no restrictions by the whining on social media, though (“ugh #quarantineproblems”). My view of certain people is permanently changed.

      2. I just saw a college friend who lives in OH post a picture of herself at a painting party event, clearly attended by a sizable group of people, standing right next to another unmasked woman. I’m certainly not going to hit “like.” But what do I do? Say “oh, I didn’t know the pandemic was over”? Unfriend her? Message her privately? Post something passive aggressive on my own wall?

    12. I’m exhausted and unproductive and don’t have kids at home so I feel like I have no excuse. It’s pitch dark at 5pm and all I want to do it curl up in bed and binge watch the Crown.

      1. Every single person on the planet should do this. Then we could be done by Christmas.

        1. Well, if you binge watch the Crown, you will be done way before Christmas! Those few episodes go by so fast!
          (sorry couldn’t resist)

      2. You are not alone. I spent most of this week staring at my screen trying to remember how to type. No kids either.

  5. I thought this year could be the year I could get into Hallmark-style Christmas Movies. But I watched one (The Christmas Coach?) and it was SO BAD. I’m ok with a cheesy script but need the acting to be decent. Any recs?

    1. I can’t do the bad movies but for my favorite good holiday type movie is While You Were Sleeping.

      Also there is supposed to be a new It’s A Wonderful Life type movie with Dolly Parton and Christine Baranski this year and I am totally going to watch it because I love them both.

        1. Same! I don’t know why, but it’s the one I rewatch every year and one of like… three movies I actually own.

          1. Wow, am I the outlier who found the movie pretty hateful? They were so cruel to the SJP character, just because she was a city person who didn’t know all their traditions.

            And the constant coffee drinking with sleeves covering half the hand just got to me. Petty, but there you have it.

          2. Agreed, PolyD. I found them needlessly hateful to the person who didn’t instinctively conform.

          3. No, PolyD, you’re not alone. The matriarch and youngest sister had a dynamic so similar to my MIL and SIL that I had to restrain myself from throwing the remote at the TV when I watched the movie a decade ago.

      2. I watched the movie and didn’t love it, but it made me realize for the first time (I was a senior in HS) that someday soon it would be my brother and sisters all coming home like that for the holidays. It was kind of bittersweet.
        We do, and it’s lovely (in non-pandemic years) and so far no one has spilled a strata over themselves.

    3. If you have Netflix, try the princess switch or the holiday calendar for decent acting. The Christmas prince is…bad acting.

      1. Speaking of Netflix, try the Holidate with Emma Roberts! It’s exactly what you’d expect.

      2. I like “so bad they’re good” movies and even I struggle with Christmas Prince. But last night I watched the “Princess Switch: Switched Again” and it’s perfect for that predictable and safe feel-good movie vibe.

    4. Try Dash & Lily on Netflix! My fiance loathes Hallmark movies, but even he enjoyed Dash & Lily.

      Word of warning: the first 3 episodes are a little slow and meh, but it gets really cute by the end. It’s also diverse and told in an innovative way and has lots of literary references throughout :)

      1. Oh yes! Definitely agree – I am about halfway through and I think it is great! Plus I love the NYC scenes and lots of Christmas vibes!

    5. Die Hard is really the best Christmas movie. I was initially a skeptic, but it will be especially cathartic this year to see stuff blowing up.

      1. Yes, my favorite Christmas movies:
        – Die Hard
        – Die Hard 2
        – Batman Returns
        – Lethal Weapon
        – Kiss Kiss Bang Bang
        – The Long Kiss Goodnight
        – Bad Santa
        No offense to anyone but I would rather chop off my left pinky finger with a meat cleaver than sit through hours of Hallmark romance Christmas movies. I am not into what is popularly called “chick flicks” in general, though.

        2. This is more or less my list too!
          I haven’t seen Bad Santa, so will (obviously!) remedy that.

          I would add Home Alone.

        3. Me either! I was once asked in an exercise class to name my favorite romantic movie. Of course, I said Point Break. It is my favorite romantic movie! It’s about two surfers from different worlds who fall in love…sort of, and then there is peak Keanu and Lori Petty. How is it not a romantic movie?

      2. Yes indeed. Die Hard 4evah.

        Also in our family it’s a tradition to watch Pulp Fiction at Christmas. (“Say ‘what’ again!”)

      3. It is an excellent Christmas movie. My husband thinks it’s the best, but he’s wrong. The Hudsucker Proxy is the best Christmas movie, with It’s a Wonderful Life as a close second.

    6. Do you have Netflix? They seem to get previous year’s Lifetime movies. I will also say that Lifetime movies are my STRONG preference over Hallmark movies (the women tend to have jobs/not be ‘punished’ for working, etc.). Some personal favorites – the Spirit of Christmas, the 12 Dates of Christmas, the Christmas Chronicles, and Holiday in the Wild.

      1. +1000, with the caveat that these movies are also bad. You’ll just have to see if they’re good-bad enough for you!

    8. I love the old school movies (Christmas in Connecticut, White Christmas, the original Miracle on 34th Street, and obviously It’s a Wonderful Life). I cringe so much during Hallmark movies that I find them to be deeply unpleasant.

      1. White Christmas is my favorite Christmas movie!!! I had a roommate a few years ago who had never seen it and I was shocked

        2. There was an elaborate Broadway version a few years ago that was just great. I saw the touring version. If I recall correctly, it “snowed” on the audience during the finale.

      2. We watch Christmas in Connecticut every single year for the holidays, I looooove her costumes, and ‘cat-as-troph!’ is now in our family lexicon!

    9. I’m a Hallmark devotee (it’s my constant WFH background noise and gives me something to chat about with my 97 year old grandmother in a nursing home 1000 miles away <3 ). Hallmark definitely has its own internal A-list of actors; some of its B-list are pretty good, but avoid the C-list at all costs. My personal favorite leading gentlemen are Andrew Walker and Brendan Penny. When those two are opposite actresses Lacey Chabert, Taylor Cole, or Jessy Schram, it's going to be good.

      Google didn't turn up anything called Christmas Coach, but I'm happy to give you my sad "I watch too much Hallmark" input if you want to find the title ;)

      2. +1 to this. I saw Cheerful Christmas too and YES that was one of the worst ones I’ve seen. You’re not going to get movie-theater level quality, but most will be in the “pleasant to half-follow while you wrap presents or do a puzzle” type of genre.

        Christmas in Rome and Christmas at Holly Lodge were both very cute. My kids’ personal favorite is Christmas Under Wraps. I probably have to figure out a way to buy it because they’ve requested to watch it every year for the past few years. It’s corny but very cute because it’s got the standard “old guy who might be Santa because he owns a toy workshop and is busy on Christmas Eve”.

  6. Thank you to everyone here who encouraged me to go to the doctor for hemorrhoids. I really appreciate everyone’s honest stories and have particularly thinking about you, Walnut.
    I am lucky and just have a tear. The doctor strongly recommended to eat 30 grams of fiber a day. I feel like I’m eating all day!

    1. I had issues postpartum, and prune juice is your friend! Helps get things moving without having to constantly eat your fiber.
      It is rather sweet; tasted like a tootsie pop to me. Some people say warm prune juice is even more effective, but I don’t think I could stomach that.
      Glad you at least got a diagnosis and some medical advice!

    2. +1. I was in the same position as you and it turned out that I did have a polyp that needed removal. I’m 30. Thank you, Walnut, for posting your story and I hope you are doing okay.

    3. A tear is incredibly painful. That happened to me. For me, I think the underlying issue was related to postpartum hormone stuff because I do not typically have constipation issues, and an OTC fiber supplement made it worse so be very careful if you look into the OTC fiber supplements. Increasing dietary fiber intake is hugely important long term, but when you have an acute tear that needs to heal I strongly suggest miralax until the situation is better. It’s just way more reliable for me than trying to increase dietary fiber in general!

      I am glad you decided to go to the doctor- I know how uncomfortable it is!

    4. I have had constipation almost my whole life as well as and hemorrhoids. I have tried just about every form of fiber out there (food, pills, drinks, prune juice) and I have always drank a ton of water. The only thing that I found works is taking a natural (non-stimulant, so no laxative in it) stool softner every day. I take one in the morning with my vitamins. I guess hard stool was my issue. These soften the stool so it can come out a bit at a time throughout the day, rather than being hard and getting stuck in there. It has made such a difference.

    5. Hi all – I’m doing well! Two rounds of chemo complete and focusing on the getting to the finish line.

      OP – I’m glad your doctor’s appt went well. I’ve definitely received a crash course in colon health this year and it has really highlighted to me that I need to re-focus on getting to my routine physicals, blood work, and advocating for myself rather than accepting generic statements like “Oh, women just have low iron.” (Looking at you 2017 bloodwork full of warning signs my doctor and I both blew off.)

      3. Continued best wishes to you, Walnut! And OP, glad you got some answers and hopefully things will be better!

    6. On the advice of my dietician, I throw a teaspoon or two of flaxseeds on salads, in soups, on stir fries, etc and that is a pretty compact form of fiber. Trader Joe’s toasted flax seeds taste better than non-toasted ones, IME.

    3. I use the ELF waterproof, although I don’t wear it often and haven’t worn it when it was really tested (a crying jag, e.g.). It is of course super-cheap, so worth trying.

  8. As my area is locked down again, I’m trying to take advantage of the situation. I’m an essential worker and was working like a maniac in the spring and summer. I’ve been wfh for a few weeks now, so getting the hang of that (slowly)

    I’m now getting into a lockdown routine. For the first time in a long time I no longer feel burnt out (yay), so I want to make the most of lockdown. What did you do in lockdown round one that worked for you?

    1. It was cold then so I could roast all the savory foods (vs mush from the crockpot) since I’d be home. Also, benefit of working in a warm kitchen.

    2. I love that WFH means I can get a workout in every day AND that I can see the sun. Go for a walk when the sun’s high at noon. And heck yes to having time to cook good meals!

    3. Getting more exercise. I’ve been WFH since March, with a 2 month stretch of unemployment over the summer. I’ve been able to take walks almost every day. I have not always been super happy during this, but I decided early on to narrow my productivity focus to physical self improvement. I’ve lost 15 lbs (extra exercise, less eating out, less booze), and my skin and hair look amazing. So yeah, it feels like a waste of a year, but I look at what I’ve accomplished for my health and looks, and I’m proud to have made the best of the situation from that standpoint. (Disclaimer – yes I understand not everyone is in a position to vainly work on themselves during this – I am a WFH DINK so I have had more time on my hands than others).

    4. I organized closets, watched TV (which I NEVER get to do), and worked out every day (even if just a long walk with my husband). I also cooked intentionally — i.e. meal planned instead of flinging reheated nuggets at my kids on weeknights, and I find meal planning soothing.

    5. Setting aside a little time to get done House projects that are not routine, the kinds of things that once done get checked off your list.

    6. I got into a good habit of keeping the surfaces in the kitchen/family room cleared off. It’s much more restful to be at home in an uncluttered environment! Also really tricked out the outdoor living space so we could entertain comfortably (one other household at a time) while still saying safe.

    7. Exercise every day, go outside anytime the sun comes out, try lots of new recipes!

    8. sleeping more every day. its the first time in decades i have gotten 7-8 hours of sleep consistently since march, so that’s 8 months! baseline, i feel so much better day to day. i can count on one hand the number of times ive felt “tired” from a sleep-less aspect (i am still tired from the world like you all) but my baseline energy level is better than i have felt in decades. for me, this is entirely due to losing a 1.25 hour commute each way. i wake up an hour later each day and try to go to bed at the same time, and LOVE it.

  9. I’d like to use this locked down winter to learn some things. I don’t necessarily care if it’s learning knowledge or learning a skill, I just want to come out of this winter feeling more accomplished than I did last go round.

    I live in an apartment so while I’d love to learn some home improvement/maintenance or gardening skills that’s not feasible (likewise I’d love to get into woodworking, but can’t)

    I live somewhere where it gets decently cold (20s and 30s for most of the winter , usually a cold spell or three colder than that) but snow is hit or miss (sometimes we get feet, sometimes it hardly snows at all)

    Looking for suggestions as to what to add to my list!

    1. Can you pick an author or a historic period that’s always appealed to you and learn about it?

    3. Cooking complex dishes
      Pastry making/decorating
      Knitting or crocheting
      Watercolor
      Cross stitching
      Snowshoeing or cross country skiing when it does snow
      Photography
      Indoor gardening with grow lights
      Jewelry making

    4. Do you already play any music? I feel the same way and I think my mental health is telling me to dive deep into something new. I bought a guitar last Sunday, and have been practicing and it is great!

      1. Agree with learning an instrument–so many great YouTube tutorials right at your fingertips.

    5. How about small appliance repair? Like a toaster or a radio or a lamp. Get one for cheap or free off your listserv/craigslist and then look up youTubevideos on how to take it apart.
      Or learn how to take your toilet apart.
      I find learning how to sew and mend really satisfying.
      I took a drawing class over Zoom and it was great. The best money I spent all year.
      My library lets you access classes in Lynda for free and I started a programming class.

      1. Yes thank you! Was looking for practical things to learn but didn’t know where to start!

      2. Yes, I rewired a vintage lamp a few months ago and I found it to be pretty darn easy!

    6. I’m learning to add bust darts in my clothes so they fit.
      My husband jokingly informed me that he mastering takeout.

      1. Oh that’s a great one! I don’t know how to sew but should probably learn.

        I wasn’t clear in my first post – not looking for likr hobbies to learn (already have a few) but more looking for life skills

        1. Yes, it’s surprisingly not toooo bad, though you do need to unpick and resew a side seam and then rehem the back to be shorter. The struggle is it will shorten your shirts (rather a lot if you’re me and need a 3 inch dart). It’s okay for me because I have the world’s shortest torso ever seen on a 5’8″ woman (WTF genes), but YMMV.

          Bikinis signatures channel on YouTube is my favorite source of training so far. She breaks things down in a way that appeals to my math brain. Note the ones I’ve been watching are for how to add a bust dart to a pattern, but it generalizes pretty easily to a shirt.

          1. Someday my longer comment will get out of mod, but try Bilikis Signatures (not bikinis. Bilikis) on YouTube!

            That said, if you’ve never sewn, don’t start with bust darts. Start with straight seams (pillow covers!) and buttons.

        2. Ah, well with that in mind:
          -sewing buttons and other small sewing repairs
          -changing electrical outlet covers
          -hanging shelves or closet organizers
          -patching walls
          -painting
          -if you can’t get a full woodworking setup, maybe you could refinish old furniture to scratch that itch? I love refinishing things.

          1. Perfect! Thank you!!

            I love refinishing furniture (can’t do it in my apt, but it’s fun). My brother is a pretty accomplished woodworker. Was planning on having him teach me prior to all of this. Adding it to my “post covid plans” (along with my uncle teaching me how to sail)

      2. Can I bring all my clothes to your house? Seriously, I don’t know who decided that bust darts should become endangered. They make such a difference in fit.

        1. <3 they really do! So far I've only added them on scrap fabric and a made-from-scratch shell. Remains to be seen what happens when I try real clothes.

    7. What about learning about different types of people? You could deep dive into history and activism and laws and care or read books by authors in the category or watch shows or films by or about people in the category. I’d go with marginalized communities like transgender people or Muslim people in America or people in wheelchairs or people with autism, etc. Cool to learn a new perspective and it’d be an opportunity to do good!

      1. Or learn to organize with “Building a Movement to End the New Jim Crow”! Great little book.

    8. I ordered a loom and all the accoutrements. I’m saving it for December so I haven’t set up my first project yet, but I find that I am excited about it and it’s lovely to have something to anticipate. I used to enjoy anticipating travel almost as much as the trips themselves, and while this is not a full substitute, at least it’s something.

    9. Get your drains in good shape.
      Learn morse code (if you have good walls and won’t bother your neighbours).
      Learn about flora and fauna where you live – what kind of birds stay through winter, for example, which trees will be the first to green.
      Learn more about your city – the history, municipal services, how is recycling handled, which department does what.
      Try some genealogy with the use of digital sources (practical digging, not the spit based kind).

    10. Before March I took a class on learning how to sew since that was a big goal of mine. It’s pretty much a rabbit hole if you want to get really into it. There are instagram communities, online communities, you can think about fabrics, your wardrobe, new techniques, etc.

  10. So I’m in a frustrating and upsetting situation with a friend group, and I’m kinda looking for confirmation that I’m being reasonable, and help figuring out my next move (sorry for the novel and also the imperfectly fitting Mean Girls pseudonyms).

    To set the stage, I have some friends that I’ve met over the past few years through swimming, both open water and indoor. Specifically, I’ve known “Regina” since probably late 2018 – just as “at the pool” friends, but we always got along well and would chat and swim sets together. “Damian”, I met at the pool in early 2018, and was super close friends with until one night in early 2019 we drank too much and gardened, he said he wanted to stay friends (fine!) but got weird and distant, lots of childish stuff happened with a separate friend group and we didn’t talk for much of last year (verrrry long story), but we reconciled just before lockdown happened. This spring while the pool was closed, Damian (who had been texting me tons during lockdown) sort of finagled adding me to a group (including Regina and a couple, “Janis” and “Kevin”) that had been practicing at the home pool of a mutual friend “Aaron”. Weirdly, however, Regina (who I was happy to see!) pretended I wasn’t there every time I showed up. At first, I thought I was being paranoid, but no, no, no I’m not. Y’all, she has been giving me the silent treatment hardcore for over six months, and has recently unfollowed me on insta (I know this because she was the first to view any stories I posted until she mysteriously wasn’t, huh). I’ve just left it alone until now, been polite and pleasant to her, but she only acknowledges my presence if I address her directly, and if anything, has gotten frostier. I’ve asked Damian if he knows what it’s about, but he’s clueless and “doesn’t want to get involved” – though apparently last week did confirm with her that it’s a thing, she didn’t elaborate on why.

    We’ve all been swimming both outside and inside (big pool opened over the summer) in various permutations for the last six months or so, also sometimes hanging out outside the pool and I get along great with everyone except Regina (who will like actively face away from me in a group setting to try and force me out). Last week, after an exceptionally weird encounter with Regina and Damian (he “just wants to swim and doesn’t want to deal with any awwwkwardness”, I’m like, hey, don’t look at me I’m not the one creating it, and I’m not going to avoid the pool when she’s there), I felt like I had nothing to lose and I’m trying so hard to chose kindness, so I sent Regina a text saying that I’ve always liked swimming with her and thought we got along, but clearly there’s an issue, apologizing if I’ve done or said anything to hurt her because it was definitely not intended, and offering to grab coffee or a drink to talk if there’s anything I can make right. She didn’t even respond. Honestly, I don’t actually want to be friends at this point, I just want her to act civil in a group setting. I legitimately have no idea where this came from – the last time I spoke to her pre lockdown was in like February, and she was super friendly and we chatted about ski trips, and then this.

    To top it off, yesterday Damian mentions via text that his cabin weekend away this weekend (that I assumed was non-swimming friends) would include swimming and was with Regina, Aaron, Janice, and Kevin, apparently Regina and Aaron planned it. I’m just so hurt and angry. I called Damian to express this, and he says he suggested inviting me, but no one responded to the suggestion so he didn’t push because it “wasn’t his trip and he can’t invite people”. I’ve tried multiple times to get Damian to plan a group trip, would have happily included Regina as a peace offering to her, and he’s never even agreed to a weekend. Regina’s cruddy behavior isn’t surprising, but I’m really disappointed with the rest of them – A, J, and K have all been friends with her longer, so I guess that’s where their loyalty lies, but her behavior is just so juvenile and passive aggressive that I can’t help but be mad they’re letting her get away with it without concern to the fact that I am inevitably hurt to be left out.

    I would just cut them all off (though Damian is tough, yes he’s totally toxic but I just can’t seem to quit him, one of those friends), but a) public pools are likely closing down again soon and I want to be able to use Aaron’s (and last week when talking to him about possible closures, he unprompted offered access in that event); and b) Damian is one of the few people I know that does a specific long distance thing I’ve recently picked up, and has been teaching me to do it for free as he’s been doing it for a very long time – finding a mentor for this is hard and I don’t want to lose that (Regina does it too, and he feels like he now has to split his time between us because of her behavior). But I also deserve to be treated better by all of them, especially Damian! How do I fix this – or at least make it tenable?

    1. I honestly don’t mean this in a sarcastic and unkind way and I truly wish you THE BEST:

      I strongly think that you need to distance yourself from these people and invest in new, outside friendships. Please don’t make a dramatic exit from the friend group, as that will just add fuel to the fire. Though I think “slow fades” are reprehensible in (healthy, non-dangerous) dating relationships, I think it could be your best bet here.

      Also, gently, do you feel like many of your friendships over the years have resulted in drama? If it’s a pattern, I would consider exploring it.

      1. Nope, exactly none of my other friend groups are like this at alll, which is maybe why I’m so confused by all of this and find it hard to handle!

        1. Well, that’s even better news, frankly :) This should encourage you to invest in your other friendships and stay away from this circle.

      2. Agree, slow fade. I think you can keep your contact with them as “swimming friends” only, find other friends for social needs- no weekends away or other extra social stuff. Just keep it civil, do your swimming practice or whatever it is, and get out. Treat them like swimming coworkers I guess, whom you do not socialize with outside of work.

    2. Fine, I’ll play. My guess is that Regina also slept with Damian, or at least wants to, and Damian is a f*boy who likes being a source of tension and not having any communication going on between you and Regina. Of course he’s above it all and “doesn’t want to get involved.” My eyes are rolling hard.

      You’re an adult, presumably. This drama isn’t worth it. Make contact with better friends, even if it has to be all remote, and find anyone (or no one) to swim with rather than keep playing into this mess.

      1. I mean, this is clearly it. He probably slept with her, ditched her, slept with you and she blames you or whatever.

        Honestly I don’t understand why you are hanging out with these people – they are clearly drama llamas and will not change.

        1. I am imagine a bunch of drama llamas (actual llamas) in a swimming pool now. It has made my morning.

          1. I feel like actual llamas swimming around in the pool would be a calm and chill vibe compared to this ridiculousness.

        2. If she has slept with him, it was definitely way after he slept with me. And there’s a good 15 month gap between him sleeping with me and her not speaking to me – but maybe she wants to sleep with him, idk? He’s actually seeing someone (not a swimmer), though she moved cross country a few months ago and none of us have met her (he’d only been dating her for like two months when she left). So like, presumably he’s off the table for her but…

          1. Ok, but regardless of all of this, your description of Damian just makes him sound worse and worse. No pool or mutual friends are worth this degradation.

      3. This was my guess as well. TBH I think you’ve done everything right so far. I would focus more energy on other friends and let these people just be more casual acquaintances that you swim with sometimes. I don’t think you should keep pushing for reconciliation, but there also doesn’t need to be some big falling out. I’ve been there–I pretty much had to get an entire new group of friends after I particular breakup I had in my 20s and it was really hard. But I’m so much more compatible with the new friends I’ve made and there is no drama.

        Just keep being positive and friendly and who knows, someone might defect from the old group if you stop trying to force it with these people and focus on making new connections.

        1. Thanks, I appreciate that. I’m not interested in creating more drama, so yeah, obviously a polite step back with them is probably the best answer. I have plenty of other healthy, drama-free friendships, both at the pool and otherwise, that I can focus on. To be clear, I haven’t been trying to force anything, I’ve just attended when invited – but this isn’t the first time I’ve witnessed weird pool drama, which I think is just something that happens when you get a bunch of people that spend that much time together (see also, barn drama, gym drama, middle school).

    3. Seems like Regina found out you gardened with Damian and is upset about it. Does she have a history with him too? Or a crush on him that isn’t requited? His “I don’t want to create awkwardness” schtick pretty much confirms it for me.

      I say continue to be friends with your friend who has the pool, Regina be damned. If you’re close enough to him or the others, have you talked to any of them about Regina’s behavior? Can any of them intervene to tell her to cut it out? It can’t be pleasant for any of them, either, and frankly I wouldn’t tolerate a friend acting like that to another friend. Make it clear you’re not trying to be her bestie, just trying to make her be a civil adult around you.

      1. I’m not aware of any history between them, not sure if she’s aware of what happened, though she was probably aware we had a falling out (and was friendly to me the whole time I wasn’t really talking to him). My knee jerk is that this is somehow about Damian, but it just seems… off, I don’t know. For additional context, and because I suspect you are all picturing us in our early 20s, Damian is the youngest at 31, Regina is the oldest at 42, and the rest of us are in between (i.e. WAY TOO OLD FOR THIS ISH).

        I’ve only talked to Damian (useless), but I’m trying to decide whether saying something to maybe Aaron would be stirring the pot too much. I’m pretty sure everyone else is aware of whatever this is, and I also think if they told her to cut it out she would, but I don’t want to make things worse. I’m really disappointed that they’re all letting this perpetuate.

        1. Talking to Aaron is only going to further stir sh!t up. This group’s dynamics are toxic.

        2. AnonyK and Anon at 10:28 have given excellent advice. Life is too short and NOTHING (swimming, instruction in some esoteric area) is important enough to put up with this toxicity. Time to move on from this dreadful and unpleasant situation and the people who have created and perpetuated it. I completely agree that the best thing to do just to leave it with absolutely no announcement, explanation or excuse. My only addition advice would be to not respond or respond in a cooly civil, but absolutely non-committal way should any of them try to draw you back into this. At most, “Thanks for your text, super busy with life, hope all is well with you!” I am sorry this is part of your life.

        3. Petty people don’t age out of it. Nursing homes are rife with stories like this.

          I agree that talking to Aaron would only blow up the situation even more.

      2. +1

        Says a lot about both their (lack of character). Being around these people isn’t worth the free pool access. I don’t get why Regina is only taking it out on you and can’t be civil. She sucks. Damian sounds like a carefree f***boy. They all suck. Take up hiking or biking and be done w/ these fools.

        1. I’ve posted here elsewhere with this handle (initials), including on this thread, but this isn’t me. Doh! Time to come up with a new handle.

          1. (To be clear, I’m not claiming any right to use this handle – I think that came out wrong! Just say I need to come up with a more creative name.)

    4. You don’t. You need to stop being friends with Damien. Take a break from swimming this lockdown. Trust me: Your water fitness will come back within weeks of public pools reopening.

    5. Do these people actively reach out to you or are you always initiating contact? Using Aaron’s pool isn’t a good enough reason to stay in this group. Wanting to actually see Aaron is the reason to stay friends. If they aren’t treating you like friends, I’d cut it all off (without making a big speech about it) and move on.

      1. Generally, Damian is the one that reaches out to me and invites me to things, and he’s sort of on the fringe of the core group (R, A, J, & K) as well. For the rest, I get invited to things when I happen to be there when they’re planned, but it’s always an enthusiastic and genuine invitation, and, Regina aside, they always seem happy to have me along. Per Damian, that’s just sort of how they are, especially Aaron – he says he always takes initiative when he sees the group, because otherwise they just won’t think to invite him. I am by far the most mad at Damian, who owes me far better in a lot of ways.

        1. Why does he owe you better? Why are you invested in this man? You were friends, you hooked up, you seem way way way too enmeshed with a relationship that isn’t good for you.

          1. I think he owes me friendship and respect, because he’s made a lot of noise about wanting to be friends with me. I mean, you’re not wrong that this dynamic is terrible, I’ve tried to distance myself before but aaaalllways get sucked back in because he apologizes and says he’ll be better, and then is for awhile, and then isn’t. I know, I know.

          2. He’s clearly not a good friend but it’s not clear why you keep expecting him to change.

          3. OP, you owe YOURSELF enough respect to stay away from this mess.

            I commented earlier but feel even stronger now, after reading all your defensiveness of this group, that they are unhealthy for you. Stay far away from them!

          4. AGREE. You owe yourself a lot better than this lot. Step away, OP. Step away.

      2. Nah, I’d take a slightly different approach. I’d realize these aren’t your friends but keep coolly friendly enough to keep using the pool. Post pandemic, find a new pool.

    6. These people are not your friends. I wouldn’t make a dramatic exit or anything, but the signs are pretty clear that there is an inner circle that you will not be able to penetrate — and I’m not sure you would really want to. This seems like incredibly dramatic and high-schoolish behavior from a group of adults.

    7. No advice on the friendships but I would love to hear more about the specific long distance swimming thing you’re learning! Did a lot of OWS several years ago and would love to get back into it; having a big goal really motivates me.

    9. I agree that Regina has slept with or wants to sleep with Damian. I also agree that your best bet is to move on from this group.

      There is a website that is like Airbnb but for swimming pools. Maybe you can afford to try out some pools that way, and then come to an agreement with the homeowner who has the pool you like best? Like you pay them $x per month until the big pool reopens.

    10. You are the source of drama here. And wanting to stay friends with these people to get free access to a pool and free lessons is just icky. Leave them all alone.

      1. How am I the source of drama in this situation? I’ve been nothing but nice and polite to Regina (and have left her alone when at all possible) in hopes this would blow over. She has been passive aggressively giving me the silent treatment for over six months for no apparent reason – pretty sure she’s the one creating the issues, not me. And I think it’s obvious that I wanted to be friends with them because I liked them, the pool and lessons are just bonuses.

        1. You keep trying to be part of the group when you are not wanted. If they wanted you to hang out with them you’d be invited to the cabin.

          1. By showing up when they’ve invited me to things? I’m not following any of them around begging for friendship. This is the first time I’m aware of being actively excluded by the group, I’ve only said something about it to Damian, and it’s not unreasonable of me to be upset and hurt by the situation. No need to be nasty about it.

    11. These people are drama and they are not your friends. You need to get yourself out of this circle. Life is too short to be dealing with grown adults who act (and treat you!) like this.

    12. If it were me, I would just slowly fade out. Isn’t there another pool you can use at a gym? I get that you like to swim, but maybe now is a good time to try a different sport – this could be an easy way to make a non-controversial exit from the group – tell them you are trying a new sport out and won’t be around as much? This seems like way too much drama for an adult friends group.

      1. I am in a city, and pools are pretty rare here. I’d have to go pretty far out of my way (like 40+ minute drive or transit ride) to go to the next nearest one – where I know no one, and right now with WFH this is a big source of socialization and normalcy for me. I also have lots of other friends at this particular pool who are completely separate from this drama, including some I’ve traveled with internationally to swim. I don’t want to give them up, even if it means I have to run into this group as well.

        1. So keep going to the pool but don’t hang with this crowd?

          A slow fade doesn’t need to be dramatic. Smile, nod, swim.

    13. My tolerance for friend drama evaporated right around the time I moved out of the sorority house. Free access to a pool and swimming lessons is not worth this level of emotional energy, particularly when you don’t seem to really care about these people.

      Plus, you’ll be avoiding COVID exposure since I’m pretty sure that big group cabin weekends are not great from a social distancing perspective…

      1. Yes, I’m really surprised by all of the intermingling socializing going on here.

        Any chance Regina thinks they have a “bubble” and you aren’t in it?

        1. I was expressly added to the “bubble” by Aaron (as keeper of the pool) and Damian in the spring. Janice and Kevin were clearly cool with that and were super welcoming. At first, I thought Regina was maybe annoyed about them bringing me in and would just get over it on her own, but I suspect you all are right and this is ultimately about Damian (or Aaron, or possibly both – she and Aaron are really close and Aaron is a literal model, though I know for a fact they’ve never slept together) and not anything I’ve done. I think the fact that we all bubbled together earlier in the year gave them all an outsized importance in my life (i.e. they were the only people I really saw for a few months) in a way that wouldn’t have happened otherwise.

          And from what I’ve seen, Regina is not currently particularly focused on any sort of “bubble”, to the extent that she met a new friend at the pool the other week and they drove out together to go for a hike recently.

          1. That makes sense. Gently, you should be worried about your bubble here – even if you are only seeing this small group of people, if they are not being careful themselves, you don’t really have a bubble at all.

          2. Not the point of this thread, but I don’t think any of you are in a bubble at this point – you already said that this Damian dude was planning a group cabin weekend that you thought you wouldn’t be invited to bc it was going to involve his other friends, not these friends. There may be things to knock Regina for but insufficient COVID safety isn’t one of them, based on what you’ve said. Which suggests to me that you’re at BEC stage with Regina and need to disengage from these people.

          3. No, definitely no bubbles at this point. Damian 1000% regularly spends time with people other than the swimming group. We’re in an area where everyone took COVID seriously early on, mask compliance is very high, cases were super low all summer, and are only now starting to rise again – unfortunately, I think everyone’s behavior is sort of lagging behind the case count, especially as we all spend more time indoors.

    14. I think you’re seeking validation from this board and you likely aren’t going to get it.

      1. Huh? Everyone seems to agree that the group is being immature and dramatic. What other validation would I be looking for?

        2. You were looking for validation that it’s not you and that’s fixable but everyone is like – you can’t, walk away.

        3. We are all agreeing with you that these people suck, but then urging you to stay away from them. You seem to be looking for commiseration that they suck, paired with advice on how to stay in the clique.

          1. Honestly, I’m just having a hard time not blaming myself – for getting sucked in, for not recognizing earlier – and feel like I should be trying to make things better rather than just accepting that sometimes people suck and walking away. I really just want to go to the pool, be friendly with everyone, and have it be a fun, safe space for all of us. I started swimming because I wanted a healthy outlet when I was going through a tough time with family illness/death, and it’s become pretty important to me. It’s really upsetting that someone seems to be going out of their way to make it uncomfortable.

            I’ve made plans with multiple other friends this weekend, virtually and in-person (including going swimming with someone who is not part of this drama, and outdoor, distanced drinks in a park with another swimming friend who is, again, not part of this drama). I’m trying to move on as best I can, but it’s been like a day, give me a second to come to terms with it all. :) I do appreciate y’all’s comments.

          2. Good for you for making plans to invest in other friendships! That is the best thing you can do for yourself. Sending warm wishes!

    15. “Damian mentions via text that his cabin weekend away this weekend (that I assumed was non-swimming friends) would include swimming and was with Regina, Aaron, Janice, and Kevin, apparently Regina and Aaron planned it. I’m just so hurt and angry.”

      Did you know there is a pandemic going on? What responsible adults are planning weekends away with bunches of friends not in the same household? Are you new here?

    16. You need to stop hanging out with these people, both for your own mental health and from a public health perspective. They sound terrible and you deserve better. You also deserve not to get terribly ill or potentially pass a serious illness on to someone who might die from it.

      This is an ideal time to leave this group and never look back. I promise in a year you will not regret losing these people from your life.

    17. If this all started right around lockdown, is there any chance that Regina thought the 5 of them or whatever had some sort of a bubble going on and isn’t cool with adding another person to it?

      1. If that’s the case, then maybe she should have addressed that like an adult with Aaron and Damian, who were the ones that added me, rather than punishing me for showing up when I was invited.

        1. you can’t control what regina does but you are continuing the circle of drama with your actions and words – you need to just let go of it as well and leave. you’re an adult and swimming invitations are not summons. if the drama is the price of admission for the pool then that’s what you’ll have to pay. it seems like you have already decided that is worth it to you, as you don’t seem to be open to much of the feedback here.

          1. How? I’ve sent Regina a grand total of one text in six months to try and resolve things and have otherwise left her alone. I’ve said absolutely nothing about any of this to Aaron, Janice, or Kevin because I don’t want to stir the pot, I’ve just cheerfully shown up when invited to things and am happy to see them when we’re all at the pool. I have talked to Damian about it all of about twice, to try and figure out what was going on because I’m not used to drama and am pretty perplexed by all of this. I’ve also agreed here that this is toxic drama and that I need to step away and refocus. I’m not sure what else you’re looking for me to say here.

        2. I agree; I didn’t mean she was in the right, only trying to think of possible explanations that hadn’t already been mentioned.

    18. You’re poisoning your own enjoyment of a sport you love by participating in this drama. Find an online coach to help you meet your goal.

  11. What drugstore daily moisturizer do you like? Ideally something with spf.

    My normal one (ROC 5 in 1) was out of stock so I grabbed a target brand one that I don’t love. It’s too thin/runny, especially for this time of year (my skin is so dry)

    1. Aveeno Positively Radiant daily moisturizer with SPF works for my normal/oily skin in winter. Note that it has chemical sunscreen ingredients. The Ultra-Calming daily moisturizer uses a mineral sunscreen, but is thicker and best for dry skin.

    2. Trader Joe’s has an SPF 30 one i like. It’s in a white bottle with a flower on it. I find it to be moderately moisturizing, so I use a drop or two of rosehip oil when I need a bit more.

      1. Yep. I use plain CeraVe cream on face and body year round. My face seems to consistently like it more than almost anything else I’ve tried. I use Bare Minerals complexion rescue on top for daily use, and layer in a separate SPF as needed for outdoor activities.

      4. Same here! Really like it and I feel like a bottle lasts forever. I use the CeraVe AM facial moisturizing lotion with SPF 30. Combination skin.

    4. Oil of Olay hypoallergenic 15spf

      If I walk in cold weather I add a layer of aquaphor on top

    5. Not SPF but I love the Neutrogena hydroboost water gel (better for summer) and gel cream (better for winter).

      1. There’s actually a Waterboost or Hydroboost sunscreen that I used as moisturizer last summer. It played well with makeup. It didn’t have a cast on my skin, but then again I am very pale.

    6. I like the Olay ‘regenerist moisture whip spf 40’ (its called something like that….) However, I layer it over a moisterizing serum because its not enough for my dry skin on its own.

    7. If your skin is dry a sunscreen is unlikely to be moisturizing enough by itself. Try adding a separate moisturizer first or a hydrating serum. Also, double down on moisturizing at night when you can really layer and don’t have to worry about how it looks – a facial oil or Aquaphor on top of whatever else you do is always helpful. If you have an Ulta they carry The Ordinary now, or CeraVe has good options. Olay and RoC make decent options, you may just have to experiment to see what products work for you.

      My go-tos are not drugstore per se, they’re inexpensive but Asian – Mizon Snail Recovery Gel Cream (from iHerb) then Missha Essence Sun (misshaus.com).

    8. I have been using Cetaphil Daily Facial Moisturizer SPF 50 for years now. I love it more than any high end product.

    9. I’m going to ignore the confines of your question and say to spend the extra money and get the Tatcha SPF (maybe they’ll have a black friday deal?) but hopefully one of the drugstore options works for you.

  12. Does anyone have any personal experience with Invisalign as a substitute for braces? We went to an orthodontist consult and I was surprised when he recommended Invisalign for crooked teeth. He said the cost of treatment and timeline would be the same, but I’m guessing there must be some downside/trade offs. Would appreciate any opinions from the hive. Thanks.

    1. I did invisalign as an adult after doing braces when I was younger (wear your retainers, kids!) – I found it pretty easy and while it did take a few months longer than their original timeline, I think that was my fault for not wearing the aligners as many hours a day as I was supposed to (you’re supposed to wear them all the time except to eat, but I did it pre-COVID when I was still in the office so was often running from lunch to meetings and they’d be out a big chunk of the afternoon). I think usually they say that invisalign takes longer than traditional braces and is more expensive, so I’m surprised he said it would be the same for you (maybe it depends on how crooked your teeth are?). If that’s the case, then there’s really no downside to going with invsialign as far as I know.

    2. From my understanding, Invisalign works fine for smaller cosmetic changes, while braces are more capable of fixing bigger issues. I’ve never had them, but I have two friends who have and they were both really happy with it.

    3. I have had braces as an adult (if you’re on the fence, do it. Just do it and get it over with. Teeth don’t improve over time on their own). I was told Braces actually move the root of the tooth, while invisalign moves the tip of the tooth.
      So, braces and dutiful retainer wearing move your entire tooth into a new or better position to achieve the end goal. Invisalign pushes the top of the tooth around, I don’t know if invisalign comes with retainer wearing as part of the long term maintenance plan.
      My teeth needed the foundational work of moving everything around to resolve a bite issue. Invisalign wouldn’t have been a fix as much as a temporary patch for my situation.

        1. +1. I don’t understand why people post patently untrue stuff like this. Its not helpful to anyone.

      2. Invisalign does indeed come with a retainer. If your orthodontist evaluates you and says you’re a good candidate for straight teeth with invisalign, I’d take that over braces. I did not have braces and a kid and had invisalign as an adult in grad school No way I could choose braces as an adult.

    4. If you don’t trust your orthodontist, you should find a different one. Yes, invisalign is great and of course orthodontists recommend it over braces as long as the patient is a good candidate for invisalign.

    5. I have Invisalign right now (so take it with a grain of salt obviously)! My teeth weren’t super crooked, so it seemed like a good choice, and at my age/career there was no way I was going to get normal braces. They are really close to invisible, and 100% invisible on Zoom calls. I feel like I lisp a bit with them in, but no one has noticed anything even my husband. It is definitely annoying to have to take them out to eat or even have a cup of tea, but WFH makes this much easier. I think I get the requisite 22 hours a day on weekdays, and maybe closer to 20-21 on weekends. They hurt for the first week, and then for the first 2-3 days I switch to a new aligner. Oh, and they probably have to put these tiny attachments on your teeth, which are like weird little bumps. These are also near invisible but very, very annoying to get used to as they are kind of sharp.

    6. I had braces as a kid and invisalign as an adult. I definitely recommend talking about this with an actual processional. My orthodontist said she had more control with invisalign than with braces which logically made sense to me. The treatment I had as an adult made fairly significant changes in my bite and alignment so invisalign isn’t just for minor adjustments. I found invisalign much more comfortable than braces. I also found it easier to clean my teeth with invisalign than with braces but you can’t eat/drink with the invisalign trays in so if you like to snack all day, it will be an adjustment.

    7. I have Invisalign now. The technology for Invisalign has improved greatly in the past few years and they can be used for a wider range of cases. I will say that during the first 3 months of my treatment I had a very noticeable lisp and my trays were obvious in person. My trays after that initial timeframe were a lot more “invisible” and I no longer have a lisp when talking. Something else to keep in mind is that they can be a pain to deal with. They need to be worn for 22 hours a day and you must ensure that you have thoroughly flossed every speck of food from your teeth after EVERY meal. Any food that has been left behind can lead to cavities. If you don’t mind traditional braces I’d say go for those. You’ll be wearing a mask in public anyway. But, if you truly want a more discrete look Invisalign is a good choice and can definitely straighten your teeth.

    8. I went with braces over Invisalign because I’m a snacker & running to the restroom to brush my teeth after every snack wasn’t something I wanted to do (preCovid 19).

    9. I have Invisalign and hate it. I should have done regular braces. It’s an imperfect computer program and they’re basically experimenting on your mouth. Mine was supposed to take 14 months (I had some crowding in my front teeth but previously had braces as a teen—for 10 months—that left me with perfectly straight teeth) and I’m now on month 24 and have four rubber bands to fix a bite problem that Invisalign created. It’s expensive for very little benefit. It’s imprecise and I’ve been told bite problems are very common (not surprising after I see how they do it—just scanning your teeth with the top and bottom separate and no real consideration of how your mouth fits together).

      And in the pandemic do you really want to have your hands in your mouth multiple times a day? They also aren’t that invisible (I’d much prefer invisible braces) because you need these big chunks of glue on your teeth to give the liners something to hold onto. The liners and the glue stain extremely easily so say goodbye to lipstick and drinking colored beverages (unless you can immediately brush your teeth). You have to take them out before eating or drinking anything other than water but you’re supposed to wear them 22 hours a day. That means no snacks and no eating or drinking on the go (really annoying for me when I’m busy, traveling, hiking, or skiing).

      I’m going to a respected orthodontist who was recommended to me by my dentist and has multiple Invisalign certifications. It’s still a disaster. This the worst decision I’ve ever made about my teeth and I’m just hoping this is the last set. Honestly I’ll probably deal with it even though my bite still feels off and my molars can’t touch just so I don’t have to keep dealing with it. I might get real braces later if there are any issues. Bottom line, it’s a massive headache and a huge waste of time and money. I definitely do not recommend it.

  13. Has anyone participated in a virtual escape room or virtual murder mystery and can recommend it? I heard some have live narrators and that sounds intriguing to me. It would be a team building activity so we can spend some money on it. Alternative suggestions welcome also.

      1. We did the same but the other option, Hackfiltration. It was specifically built to be a virtual escape room. Be sure to have everyone use their computer vs a phone/tablet. It was really fun!

    2. Do you have to be in person with your group for these or can they be done when everyone is virtual?

    3. I’d put escape room activities in the polarizing camp – I did a bunch in before times because they were all the rage for team building, but the only thing that made them tolerable then was being able to step aside w others who didn’t like puzzles and chat while those into it, solved the thing. I would loathe this on zoom where I couldn’t escape (pun intended)

    4. We’ve done three rooms with TrappedPuzzleRooms.com. Really fun. Not impossible but still challenging. Great narrators who work with one group at a time. Highly recommend!

    5. Is there something like this that is kid friendly? (Ages 6-12) Trying to think of something fun for everybody to do since we won’t be getting together for Thanksgiving.

      1. Some escape rooms (especially the ones relying more on imagination than on puzzle solving) would be great for kids. I’d just call and ask.

  14. Good morning everyone . . . my best friend has two dogs and a horse. She generously often buys my children gifts, not just me, and I have intermittently bought gifts for her dogs but would like it to be more regular. Dogs I can handle but I don’t want to leave out her horse, and I know there are some equine experts on this board. Sending her a bag of carrots is silly, haha. Does anyone have suggestions for a gift for a horse? Pre-made horse treats? Anything? Budget about $30 or less. Thanks!

      3. Same! I think it’s sweet of you to buy gifts for her pets. I love when people do that for me.

    4. Wow thank you!!! Snaks 5th Avenchew is perfect, one-stop shopping! And I’ll keep Dover in mind in the future :). She never leaves out my kids, why should I leave out her “boys”? :)

    5. My horse LOVES these: http://nickerdoodles.com/ You can get them at Dover Saddlery or a couple of other places.
      And a plug for my friend who makes horse treats and donates part of the proceeds to organizations that work at retraining/rehoming former racehorses (friend is also a senior in college and somehow manages to hold down a couple of part time jobs. She’s super motivated in life): https://www.taketwotreatery.com/

    6. Depending whether you are local or shipping, a bag of baby carrots with a bow is the kind of silly that I would love!

      1. Or a bunch of the nice carrots with tops, tied in a ribbon – my horse loves the green tops. :)

  15. Similar to the question above about work from home routine.
    What would your ideal routine look like during these times? And what is keeping you from achieving it?

    Mine would be:
    06:00 get up, get dressed in casual clothes I laid out the night before, make coffee and get ready in peace
    07:00 get up toddler, have breakfast together, get him dressed, etc.
    08:00 until 4:00 pm: Drop off toddler, work from home, break for lunch that I prepped the night before, maybe a walk during lunch?
    4:00 until 06:30 pm: change into work out clothes, pick up toddler, hang out outside, eat dinner together, put him to sleep
    06:30 until 07:30 work out, shower, put on lounge wear/pjs, do skincare routine,
    08:00: proper dinner with DH, clean kitchen, get ready for tomorrow (lay out clothes, pack bags etc)
    afterwards: Hang out, make tea, drink tea while reading book, floss teeth, face massage with face oil, go to sleep

    What is keeping me from it? Lack of discipline, I tend to just veg on my couch at night watching netflix and youtube before making my way to bed with nothing prepped.
    But maybe writing this out will help me achieve this routine, it sounds so relaxing!

    1. I’m just not interested anymore in trying to make myself do what seems like the ideal routine. If I struggle over and over again to actually stick to it, that means it’s not actually ideal for me.

  16. I am very frustrated now because I wanted one of my parents (who are in the same bubble with me) to get a routine check-up done to renew a prescription for a chronic condition. My parent’s old PCP has moved out of the state so we went to One Medical instead. I was surprised to find that they allowed patients who wanted COVID testing to come in to the office at the same time as well patients who are getting checkups. I understand that the potentially COVID positive patients were masked, but they were still in the same room as my parent, albeit only for a few minutes. This seems like a recipe for spreading the disease. Nothing to say here, but frustrating to be potentially be exposed in this way after being essentially locked down for eight months. We are not at risk, but my parent’s chronic condition potentially increases their risk.

    1. Ask the staff whether your parent can go straight back to an examining room – most places have been doing that since March. Rooms are cleaned between patients and they probably haven’t been ‘crossing the streams’ between COVID testing patients and other patients anyway.

    2. Everyone is potentially COVID positive. I think what you are expecting is not reasonable.

      1. Yep, this. Also – a lot of people get COVID tests, not just because they have symptoms. Maybe they’re seeing family and want to be safe? Or going somewhere that requires one? DC requires two tests after traveling now.

      2. It is completely reasonable! Every health center near me has a separate location for potentially positive patients and well visits, even if the COVID ones are in a tent.
        OP – I’d find another doc.

        2. +1 Find another medical facility. You might look for one that is doing Drive In Covid testing, that is a sign they are being careful.

    3. That shocks me. In my city, one medical turned one office in to the COVID testing site and there are no other activities there. At the other offices, you can get an antibodies test but not the test for active COVID. I would be uncomfortable with that too

    1. Are you able to do the confirmation process? Out of curiosity are you coming from a foreign country? Your ip might be flagged as spam.

        1. The next time you see it could you pretty please take a screenshot and send it to me through our “tech trouble” form? Please include the exact address you’re going to (the URL) in the screenshot. thank you very much!

  18. I worked my first election this year & just got a check for $250! I’d like to spend it on something just for me, but I don’t know what… I also have a $100 Nordstrom gift card that has been languishing that I could combine with it. The chairperson at my precinct said she always buys a piece of jewelry to commemorate, which I thought was nice idea, but I don’t wear much jewelry right now…

    I’m WFH for the foreseeable future. In the upper midwest, but have good outdoor hiking/winter clothes. Like to bake/cook, but already have a nice selection of Staub cast iron. Help me out?

    1. Art!
      One of the barefoot cardigans folks on here really like.
      Stud earrings (they don’t get caught in your mask).

      1. Stud earings. I’ve found several on Blue Nile I’ve liked in the $200-300 range and I wear them when I work at home even though no one sees me except my husband. Doesn’t use the Nordstrom card, but…

    2. Thank you for working the polls! :)

      You can always save the money until something strikes your fancy.

      1. This is what I would do. If I have money to treat myself, but have to really rack my brain to even think of what to spend it on, then I think that’s a sign that I don’t really want anything all that badly. Wait until you find something you really want.

  19. I hear a lot of people on here say they like Ugg slippers, but is there a particular style everyone likes? Are they the clog style? The moccasin? The open back ones?
    Also, does anyone have opinions on Ugg vs the LLBean “wicked good” line?

    3. I don’t have either but my personal thought is to go with LL Bean whenever that’s an option.

      Many family members have the LL Bean wicked good ones and love them.

    4. I just got the LL Bean Wicked Good slippers and they are very warm and cozy. I would recommend unless you need significant arch support – that’s one thing they lack. In a perfect world, I’d have both, but I’m fine keeping them merely for the coziness.

    5. I like the ones with an elastic strap that goes around the heel for support! It’s the WFH version of the slingback :)

      In general, backless shoes slide off my feet when I walk, so this is the perfect alternative!

  20. My firm has unfortunately been requiring staff to come into the office for a few months, while attorneys can work from home if they want. I (lawyer), and many of my colleagues, have not come into the office since mid-March. My relationship with my assistant has severely degraded in the past few months. I suspect she feels she is working hard and coming in everyday while I’ve been lazing about all day (this could not be further from the case). I’m getting strong resentment vibes, and passive aggressiveness. 2020 sucks, and it sucks even worse for her, I get it. I Any suggestions to change the dynamic? Or do I just need to get over it? Especially considering I intend to try and stay remote as much as possible when the pandemic is over.

    1. You need to advocate for her to be able to WFH too. Your firm sounds toxic and you don’t need to “get over it,” you need to help her.

      2. +1 help her! Your firm is creating an us vs them divide. It’s very clear they value lawyers as more important and she’s sick of being a have not and literally putting herself in danger.

        1. Yikes! My firm has staff in person and attorneys at home but your reasoning is so far from the truth.

          The staff have to deal with the paper mail and the paper files and faxes. Keeping the attorneys at home is what keeps the staff safe. Their job can’t be done 100% WFH. I can for a month or two. Our were actually remote for 4 months except for two people scanning and emailing all mail. There were MOUNTAINS of paper to deal with when they returned. Our courts still want paper. There’s no way around it.

          There are two staff per FLOOR, super socially distanced at my firm. Bringing the attorneys back would make it unsafe for them as there would now be 5 people per area.

          Also, one attorney is in the office because her job requires it. Trust and estates/wills signings. So, the home versus office divide is based on job duties not class hierarchy.

          1. +1 a huge portion of certain staff job duties at my firm cannot be performed from home. If we didn’t have limited and socially distanced staff back in the office, the firm probably would have laid off half the staff since working from home was resulting in only half of the job duties of staff being done.

          2. It’s absolutely baffling that law firms still use the “but we need someone there to pick up faxes line.” It’s almost 2021. There are numerous technological solutions, including getting faxes sent to an email address or throwing the fax machine out the window.

          5. Yes to e-fax or no faxing. If lawyers told me I had to be in the office to monitor the fax machine and lick stamps while they get to WFH during a pandemic, I would start job searching right away (in a new industry). I worked as a paralegal in 2012-2013 and my office had an actual typewriter that was still in regular use for putting labels on Redwelds (and yes, we had a damn fax machine too).

          6. I’m a lawyer in a government office. This summer, when things are pretty decent in my area, we had lawyers coming in as needed (with about 1/4 in every day) and staff in on rotation (also about 1/4 in every day) so there was always someone there to deal with paper, retrieve things, etc. In the spring, we had no one in the office at all and it was sometimes hard — not having access to paper files, or things that others insisted on mailing us. During the pandemic, the court we deal with and our office has done a ton to digitize everything. Now, this is a problem less and less because the organization has made efforts. We currently have all lawyers and staff WFH unless absolutely necessary to be in the office, and most days no one is there. Lawyers know that if something has to get done or retrieved in person, they have to go in or ask someone who’s already going in to do it — it would be highly frowned upon to ask a staff member to go in for you unless there was a real reason you couldn’t — e.g. you were exposed and quarantining.

            If government (with very limited resources) can do it, so can law firms.

        2. Some types of tax filings can only be done on paper. And those are 100s of pages long. It’s not just a firm’s fault that paper still exists.

          1. The medical providers near us require fax. E-fax could be an option and I’m not sure why we haven’t looked into that.

            But re: paper mail, if a court requires that a pleading be printed, signed and mailed to them, should that be billed to a client at an attorneys hourly rate or is that the purpose of having legal assistants with no charge to the client.

            It was completely overwhelming to have one or two staff members scanning and emailing all of the mail. They didn’t have time for their regular work. Plus there are a lot of things that still require physical signatures, like signing a client trust check after a settlement. You don’t want those in the mail.

          2. I sat across the hall from a paralegal who does these filings. When we all left for WFH, they allowed her to come in to finish those filings. She has an office with a door that can shut. Our office manager has tabs on everyone who is coming in (they have to ask for permission) so if there are too many people or if they’re in cubicles next to each other, she can coordinate temporarily moving them or staggering the times they’re in the office. No excuse for making all staff go in.

          3. e fax is accepted by medical providers

            Get the staff a printer so they can print from home and drop off to a Fed Ex or UPS dropoff with an e-label

            Sounds like you should hire someone purely for scanning.

    2. Have you asked her how she feels about it? If not, I would give her an opening to talk to you about how she feels about being forced to come in. Then, offer to advocate for her with firm management if you can. I’m in government, and our admin is coming in most days now at her choice, but previously she was coming in only 2 days a week and we tried to categorize work into stuff that she could do on home days/office days.

      Even if you ultimately can’t change anything for her, it would probably help her to feel that you heard her concern and cared and tried to help. Or, it might be something else entirely she is upset about. You never want to assume. So I’d start with an open ended conversation at first “hey x, how are you holding up ? you seem really stressed lately.” Then if she doesn’t offer anything, you can ask a little more pointedly so she knows you are open to listening, i.e. “I wish it were possible for you to work remotely too. Do you think that would help?”

    3. The policy sucks but hopefully she knows it’s not your fault. She should be happy you choose not to come in because it means she’s exposed to one less person at the office. If staff truly need to be present, can your firm let some of them have offices or otherwise allow them to spread out even more if some of the attorneys are WFH?

  21. College admissions people / parents:

    How will SAT/ACT optional (or not used) options work? Kids have been on zoom school now and flailing wildly as they seem to disintegrate at times (so your in person A/B kid now is failing some classes). Grades were what was relied on? But how will that work in a pandemic? I felt bad for last year’s kids, but I feel worse for this year’s kids and the juniors who will have a resume of zoom school, no activities (which seem to generate the most sincere recommendation letters), and not much of a good chance to even take standard tests to show their potential. Now our district is talking no-in-person fall 2021 b/c people either aren’t comfortable with a vaccine or may not all have gotten it (and a portion of kids struggle with routine vax laws, so they may be last in line for COVID).

    Is it just a lottery and a crap shoot now more than ever? How do people really even look at submissions that are now seeming so meh and fungible? [It matters a lot in our state b/c we have Great State U and then a big cliff to the next level offered. And I don’t sincerely think that Harvard or even Fancy State U lets in just anyone in a no-test or test-optional world — I think they really curate their rosters, but in a way that is now even more opaque.]

    1. Didn’t you just ask this a couple of weeks ago?

      For generic middle-class kids, test scores don’t help the way they used to. Nowadays everyone has a 4.75 GPA and a near-perfect SAT score, so a great score just won’t make a kid stand out. The only way a generic middle-class kid is getting into a top school is if s/he is an Olympic-caliber athlete, has patents or peer-reviewed publications, or won a national science fair. If you want your kid to get in to a top school, move to a geographically underrepresented town and tell your kid to become a bassoon prodigy.

      1. So — just tell high schoolers suffering from despair to just abandon hope. You won’t be able to be a bright shiny penny. You’re probably just a fungible reasonably bright reasonably studious suburban kid.

        Honestly, I think that this will skew things towards kids from St. Grottles*x, who are always special, and who have an alma mater suggesting that someone will actually write a hefty tuition check. Kids from random places (the bassoonist from the UP of Michigan, unless actually applying to Michigan), fuggedaboutit.

        1. No, bassoonists from random places and might fit a recruiting quota. The problem is the bright kid from Ann Arbor, not the kid from the UP.

          Things were already skewed towards the kids whose parents could write hefty checks. The elimination of standardized testing doesn’t change that. I have an extremely bright generic suburban kid with impeccable grades and test scores who is very advanced in all her coursework. I’ve explained to her that because mommy went to UCLA on scholarship and daddy went to State U. and we are not rich, connected, or interesting in any way, she needs to put some normal colleges on her list because there is nothing about her that Stanford will think is special. That’s just the way the cookie crumbles.

      2. OMG – my kid just took up the bassoon!!! And we live in a small town. My kid may get into a good college when it’s time (his goal is MIT).

    2. honestly as unfair as it is, there are probably still some kids still getting As and kids who’ve found ways to adapt activities to a virtual world and those will be the kids getting into the top schools (i interview kids for my Ivy League alma mater and there are probably enough kids who meet that criteria)

    3. Some kids are doing better than ever with plenty of time to study, excellent private online instruction, and minimal distractions. I assume they’ll also do great in admissions.

  22. Yea or nay — carpet runner on wood stairs from first to second story? Or stair treads instead?

    Recently moved in to new house. Spouse, but no kids or pets (now or in the future). Certainly, concerned about slipping and harming ourselves.

    Also, if you have carpet runner on stairs, do you have to extend the carpet runner in the hallway on the second story?

    1. I just wear slippers with good grip in the house or bare feet (in the summer)- don’t run up/down stairs in socks! I think there was a question about this exact same thing in the past week or two though- about stair treads.

    2. We have a carpet runner on our stairs and it does not extend into the hallway on the second story. We have an old house and I think the wood stair trends would get both slippy and worn. I don’t think individual stair treads look great but that’s personal preference.

    3. I think carpet is slipperier than plain wood. We have wood to the second floor and Berber on the basement stairs. I almost always wear slippers or am barefoot (socks only isn’t the best for either option).

    4. My house is old, so a bit too out of square for a runner. I wear socks inside (with crocs if going in/out), but I’ve never taken a tumble. I have slid down stairs with a runner before, so that’s not fail-proof.

    5. I would go full-coverage carpet. My next-door neighbor and his wife both slipped and tumbled down their bare wood stairs in the same week. The wife is now getting dental reconstruction. I’d rather take more time and effort to clean than knock my teeth out.

    6. I just took a fall down my carpeted stairs and messed up my back for weeks. You can bet I’m not wearing socks and taking them very carefully now.

    7. I wear barre-type grippy socks inside my house so I don’t slip on wood floors.

    8. FWIW, the only times I’ve slipped on rowhouse stairs are carpeted ones. They can be slicker than plain wood especially over time with wear patterns.

      But, if you do a carpet runner, I’d end it on the top “stair” (i.e., not the second floor) so you don’t have to run the carpet everywhere.

    9. If you already have finished hardwood stairs, be aware that adding a carpet or runner will likely ruin the wood finish and if you or a future owner ever wanted to remove it, you would have to refinish the stairs. Which isn’t cheap for such a small amount of flooring..

    10. Following. We have uncarpeted wood and two small children. Just had our first fall … kindergartener fell UP the stairs and banged up mouth something crazy.

    11. We have done both – carpet runner and treads – on wood stairs. We had a lovely carpet runner in our first house and we were trying out living with bare wood in our new house. But after a cleaning person wiped our stairs down with pledge (yes, it was as bad as it sounds!) we quickly went on the hunt for carpet options. To save money, especially on what would have been a tricky instal for a turned staircase, we went with treads and have really been pleased. They have held up really well and it’s nice knowing they won’t be hard to replace if they get too much wear. We were also able to get a matching runner rug for the hallway if that interests you.

    12. Had the same concern and got clear stair treads on Amazon… They are actually quite difficult to see but you definitely notice the difference while going down the stairs!

  23. Ideas please! I ran out of my gabapentin, which is necessary for managing my hot flashes and helps with migraines. However, I have no health insurance and am in a hot spot so paying full rate at urgent care means major risk of exposure. Apps for self-pay don’t say whether they will approve such a medication so I could pay, get to the dr. and not be able to get the med but still have paid.

    Any ideas? I’m overheated and hurt so I need the med but can’t think clearly!

    1. 1) Nearly everywhere does telehealth these days
      2) Is this the type of drug where the manufacturer offers rebates?

    2. Telemedicine. I was able to get my migraine prescription refilled through a teleconference with an M.D. at plushcare dot com.

    3. Federally qualified health care centers will be your best bet and many have separate locations for sick and well. They also have a program through the federal govt for you to get meds at a huge discount.

    4. If you are just looking for a prescription, is there a way you can do a virtual office visit?

    5. My vet pointed us to look at goodrx.com for coupons. For a prescription that was originally $140 at the animal hospital, was refilled for $20 at a human pharmacy.

    6. Have you tried one of those online migraine med companies? I had good luck using Nurx for birth control when I had insurance, but had just moved and hadn’t found a new doctor yet. It might not be cheap (birth control had to be covered by insurance, so it was free in my case), but it would be easy and wouldn’t involve any exposure. Or is that what you mean by an app for self-pay? I guess gabapentin is more controversial because some states are trying to regulate it like a controlled substance so it might be harder to order without seeing a doctor in person.

  24. Anyone ever have hot tub folliculitis? Went in one for the first time in years with my neighbor, who is in my pod. She told me she got diagnosed with it at the doctor yesterday and, due to recent surgery and obesity, she was given antibiotics. It explains what I thought were bug bites. I am super itchy. Internet says antibiotics aren’t always used. Trying to assess whether to pay for a doctor visit and take the meds or if this is a “it just goes away in a few days” thing.

  25. I’ve been sitting on my bed to work and now I have what feels like a bruised tailbone and what might be the start of a pilonidal cyst. Sigh. Other than making sure to sit on a pillow from now on, does anyone have advice for the pain?

    1. I bought a very good chair cushion that I sit on. I have used on the bed, the floor and dining room chairs. My pain has lessened significantly since I started using it. Maybe it would help you too.

    2. If you’re the same poster from months ago who posted you were working from bed, but was obstinate about trying to set up a real workstation for yourself, it is past time to get something so you don’t work sitting in bed all day. A small podium-style desk that would let you work standing up most of the day would be a huge improvement; you are spending too much of the day on your keister and that’s causing the tailbone issues (I say this because the same thing happened to me a few years ago when I switched to a job where I had to spend long hours sitting; it took two years for the resultant tailbone issues to resolve). FYI, a friend of mine had a pilonidal cyst and had to have surgery, and it was a very painful ordeal and a long recovery period. By not fixing the “working from bed” situation you are buying yourself health problems that are going to be painful, life-limiting, expensive and complicated to fix. At this point, beyond buying some kind of a desk, you likely need to see a chiropractor and a physical therapist to start working on your spinal alignment and body mechanics. I understand the pain you’re in very well; mine was so bad that getting out of a chair, or going to sit on the toilet, was enough to bring tears to my eyes. Physical therapy helped, but ultimately the only way I resolved it was fixing the ergonomics of my workstation, and spending more of the day up off my butt.

  26. My husband and I are staying home just the two of us for Thanksgiving. I’ve ordered dinner from a local place and am excited to not have a ton of dishes to do… but now I don’t know what I’ll do with my time for the rest of the day. Any suggestions on how to make it special? It’s our last Thanksgiving as a family of two, and he’s really sad about not getting to see his grandparents on the holiday.

    2. Our Covid weekend morning routine (when the weather cooperates) is getting a drink at our favorite coffee spot then going for a walk together
      Make a more elaborate breakfast (fresh-squeezed OJ, waffles, or just the frozen croissants from TJ’s with a fruit salad if you don’t want to do much work)

      For your dinner:
      Mix up a fancy pre-dinner cocktail
      Set the table with your best dishes, candles, and linens
      Play some nice music
      Light lots of candles
      Get dressed up (lol I am not this person right now, but maybe you are?)

    3. We are doing a zoom dinner but we are also going to set aside time to talk about family history and traditions, and I’m going to write down what my parents share and send it around to all of us afterwards.

    4. Can you bake a pie? Even if your dinner comes with dessert our family thanksgiving routine always requires at least two pies. Maybe three.

  27. When you make a minor mistake at work or say something stupid in a meeting, neither of which are a big deal, but you feel embarrassed or bad about it anyway, what do you do? Ugh.

    1. I look at memes. They make me laugh and remind me I’m not alone – there are SOOO many about socially awkward moments like that.

    2. Other than remind myself that I am far harder on myself than anyone else? Nothing. Channel your inner Elsa and try to let it gooooooooo

    3. It’s such a crappy feeling, isn’t it?
      The best thing you can do is apologize once (if warranted), learn what you can from it and then carry on. I know it’s easier said than done though!

    4. I periodically revisit the moment of embarrassment and bask in the echo of that awkwardness.

    5. Set a timer for five minutes.
      Think about it as much as I want.
      When the timer goes off, I distract myself with something I know will occupy my thoughts for at least twenty minutes.

      Works reasonably well, honestly.

    6. Honestly? I stew and obsess and say terrible things to myself that I would never, ever say to a friend. Meanwhile, everyone else has completely forgotten it happened, if they ever noticed at all. Don’t be like me!

    7. I share it with a friend or trusted colleague who I know will commiserate (and often they’ll share their own similar moments).

    8. I had a coworker give me excellent advice about this, once. “You get exactly 10 minutes to self-flagellate about this,” she said. “After that we need you back in the game.”

      Similar to Vickie Austin’s approach. I remember that my employer can’t afford to have me beat myself up when I could be solving a problem or reaching out to a client or coming up with new product or enhancement ideas.

  28. Whoever it was a few days ago that was dying to know what blouse Brianna Keilar was wearing, I happened to be watching and saw her outfit and then later happened to be browsing for clothes I have no place to wear and think it’s this one: Tory Burch Mushroom Lurex Bow Blouse. (Though I wasn’t watching closely so I may be wrong!)

    1. That was me! I think you may be on to something! I don’t see the same color, but everything else looks very much the same. I’ll keep browsing! I missed the thread this morning, but so happy I caught up tonight :) Thanks for thinking of me.

  29. I need to buy a monitor for my WFH set up. I have been using just my lap top. Any one have a good suggestion on which one to buy?

  30. My boyfriend is really into adult coloring books. He does not have great pencils — he borrows my kid’s crayola ones, and talks fondly of the nicer ones he had as a kid. What are the best pencils? I would like a large-ish set; budget up to $100.

    He has a Where’s Waldo coloring book and I’m getting him a Pokemon. Any other suggestions? No landscapes or florals.

  31. I need all the good vibes that you can send me. My in-laws have been admitted to the emergency room this morning, with suspected COVID cases. They have been super careful, but community spread is rampant in our area, and here we are. Both are super high-risk, have half a dozen pre-existing conditions between them. I fear the worst. DH is an only child and saw them yesterday because his dad fell and was too weak to pull himself up. DH took precautions, but if they have covid, we’ve definitely been exposed, too.

    3. I’m so sorry and I will be hoping for the best. Please update us when you can.

    5. I am so, so sorry. Even with the situation you describe, it is rational to hope for an eventual good ending, although I sorry all of you need to deal with this. I keep my fingers crossed and send good thoughts your way. Please keep us posted.

  32. Anyone have a treadmill they really like? I don’t need anything fancy, but sturdy and full size. Thanks!

    1. Just ordered a Nordic Trak. It’s not here yet but I wanted to say the shipping came way faster from Amazon than from actual Nordic Track. We ended up cancelling our original order and re-ordering through Amazon. It was also $200+ less for shipping (I think free on Amazon) so we were able to put that money towards a service plan for it.

    2. I have had several Horizons over the years (I move between US and Europe a lot for work, so different voltage) and I’ve bought all of the used but they have been workhorses. My latest one came to me used and I’ve had it 5 years, running 3 miles 2-4 times per week and no issues at all.

  33. Hi All:

    Looking for some inspiration for Thanksgiving day apps. It is a tradition in my family to have a variety of appetizers for lunch on Thanksgiving and then the full dinner at a normal time. So far, the list is: a harvest type salad, shrimp cocktail, stuffed mushrooms, and spinach artichoke dip. I am looking for one more option.

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