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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Faux Wrap Knit Belted Dress

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Grey snakeskin-print soft knit dress with mesh lining

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

It’s been weeks since I posted anything with an animal print, but I’m back, baby. This faux wrap dress from Brooks Brothers is right up my alley. I like to think of this type of python-inspired pattern as a “starter” animal print — the colors are neutral enough that you can pair them with a black blazer without looking too over the top. If you’re more advanced, try adding a jewel-tone jacket or some bright shoes.

The dress is $228 at Brooks Brothers and comes in sizes XS–XL.

Sales of note for 3/26/25:

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446 Comments

  1. Recommendations for fleece-lined tights or leggings? Or just tights and leggings that are actually warm? Ideally under $30. TIA!

    1. I have just ordered a few thermal leggings from Tezenis [not sure, if they are available in the US]. I bought them last year, they look like regular leggings on the outside [simple cotton], but are fleece-lined. They went through at least 40 wash cycles and still as new, so I have ordered 5 pairs as soon as they hit the online store.

    2. Seems my previous answer got eaten by the void, sigh.
      I recommend thermal leggings from Tezenis [not sure about their availability in the US, but they are present everywhere in the EU]. I bought their fleece-lined black leggings last year, they look like your normal cotton leggings on the outside, but are fleece-lined and warm [but still breathable]. They went through many wash cycles and still look as good as new. I ordered 5 new pairs the moment they hit the online store this year… you know, heating bills in Europe…
      Long story short: they’re great.

    3. I bought Old Navy ones last year and love them — but they stretch out pretty easily. So I consider them wear at home leggings rather than wear in public leggings. I also own the Athleta Polartec leggings, and those are legit warm but more constricting.

    4. My favorite are made by Baleaf and are right around $30. Available on Am*zon. They are more like yoga/workout leggings, not for under dresses, because they are thick. But warm enough that I’ve worn them sledding.

  2. I posted last week about not liking my job/company that I’ve been at for about 6 months. I decided I’m not going to be miserable for no reason and I found a job posting this weekend that I’m REALLY excited about, but it’s a little senior for my experience (asks for 8-12 years of experience while I have 7.5 and the title is a reach for me). But I’m applying anyway, and I’m being realistic with myself, but…I just need…what do we call it? The confidence of a mediocre white man? Good vibes from y’all for me please!

    6. Go for it! As someone who’s been in HR for a long time, I can say that most of the years of experience requirements are nothing more than guesses. There’s no science to it. Most people reviewing your resume would look at the 7.5 years and say you meet the minimum.

      1. Thanks! I’m applying tonight and my fear is that the application will have some sort of yes/no question on experience that will filter me out. We’ll see!

  3. ooooh, I really do not like this one. A little animal print goes a long way.

    Recipe / idea request please — something for adults to snack on while handing out candy. Must be “sitting outside in chilly weather without a heat source”-friendly and taste good with beer or cider. Low calorie preferred as 3 out of the 5 attendees are openly dieting… but no one wants to sit and eat carrot sticks when there’s a bucket of Snickers next to you.

    3. I would probably have popcorn (like Skinny pop) for something like this. Something where a high volume is still relatively low calorie.

    4. My m-i-l likes to bring antipasto skewers with cubes of cheese, little gherkins/pickles, olives, meat cubes/slices, and cherry/grape tomatoes. You could swap in more vegetables like cucumbers or bell peppers for fewer calories.

    5. sliced fuyu persimmons and apples
      homemade popcorn
      chickpeas roasted with cumin and salt

    6. What about vegetable pakora or samosa? Lamb samosa are super easy to make, lamb mince, mango chutney, peas, onions and tikka paste cooked in a pot then use premade filo pastry to fold.(best google how to fold) then pop in the oven! Easy to prep ahead then just finish in the oven.

      1. Samosas/pakoras are delicious but not so much when they are lukewarm or cold. I think this calls for something that’s served cold or room temp.

    7. Huge bowls of popcorn with some m&ms (or candy of choice) mixed in… not too much candy to make it high calorie but just enough to make it interesting. Agree that a truffle popcorn or parmesan popcorn would be good, too (though might result in greasy hands which would not be ideal for handing out candy..)

    8. oooooh, fancy popcorn is perfect. And something I could do 2-3 ways to make it feel like more of an effort. I am taking notes on all the topping ideas! Thanks :)

      1. Any kind of popcorn would be sufficient to keep me away from the candy because I don’t have much of a sweet tooth, but I suggest having something healthy-ish but sweet for those that do. Maybe popcorn mixed with dark chocolate chips and/or a light caramel drizzle? Or either of those on apple and pear slices? Sipping a warm beverage curbs mindless snacking too. An electric kettle and an assortment of tea options, or a slow cooker of spiced cider would be lovely.

    9. Mark Bittman has a great savory trail mix recipe that I love and is filling and fun and feels fancy. It involves chorizo and manchego in addition to nuts and dried fruit. You can google Bittman Spanish Trail Mix to find it.
      Other thoughts:
      – guacamole and chips
      – meatballs. (Can you run an extension cord and plug in a crockpot?)
      -Sausage chedder balls – basically bisquick, cheddar cheese, and sausage. Okay, that one might not be low calorie, but they go really well with beer.

    10. Popcorn seems like it would make folks’ hands icky. Better to have something one bite size that isn’t total grazing.

      1. Just in case the OP sees this, I eat popcorn with chopsticks! You could set out some chopsticks with individual popcorn serving bowls. It’s the best snacking modification I’ve ever thought of. No sticky/buttery fingers and it slows me down a little because I can only eat one kernel at a time.

    13. Maybe I’m basic, but I love pizza for this kind of night. Even on a diet, I’d rather just bake in the calories for a slice than nosh on a bunch of random things.

    14. Am I doing Halloween wrong? Is snacking while giving out candy a thing?

      Do I have a couple half eaten boxes of candy around the house? Of course. But I’m not clear on the scenario where I eat a big snack while giving on candy. Maybe some places don’t get many trick or treaters and there is time in between?

      1. It sounds like there will be a group there. Even in my ‘hood, where we get 1200-1500 kids on Halloween, we can have one person giving out the candy and host a party in the background at the same time.

      2. It’s a group of neighbors on a city block who don’t have kids, and so enjoy chilling between two stoops while kids come and go in waves. It’s essentially happy hour with buckets of candy sitting in front of us; we don’t actually touch the candy, just tell the kids to take a piece or two.

        Thanks for all the suggestions, guys!

  4. In our area, Bar and Bat Mitzvahs are common. We went to some pre-COVID. Kiddo got invited by a friend we haven’t seen in a while (different middle school catchments; were at the same school pre-COVID for elementary school; in the same orchestra that is back to in-person and were in some camps together in the summer) to come to confirmation service and a brunch gathering afterwards. All good. These are people I like and am always happy to spend more time with, adults and kids. But later, it seems that all of the kids but mine got invited to a dress-up party (sort of my super sweet 16, but younger kids). The mom and I are still FB friends (both working moms in the same field). I feel now, not so Christian (which we’re not) about the whole thing — like it was just a middle school gift-grab (and a bit of a weekend schedule juggle with multiple kids). I haven’t mentioned it to my kid but it was just making me feel so salty to see “Party for Cara!!!” when it was pretty clear kiddo was not invited to that. IDK if this is typical for tweens but this is a year where we may run into this again.

    1. Grew up in an area/crowd that is pretty much 50/50 Episcopalian and Catholic. I was raised Episcopalian (mom and her family is Episcopalian, dad and his family is Catholic). I have never heard of a sweet 16/bat mitzvah type party post confirmation. In fact, I haven’t ever heard of friends being involved in a post confirmation brunch. Usually the extended family will gather for a celebratory brunch or something but no friends.

      So, I agree that it is weird. And, rude if there was a bigger party your kid was excluded from.

      1. Maybe it’s kids just wanting to throw down? In our area, middle school dances were cancelled and now that those kids are HS freshman, HOCO seems to be totally over the top now. Like these kids’ parents probably had more modest weddings than some of what I have seen in pictures.

        1. Big, pseudo-wedding-reception style parties for Bat Mitzvahs were common 20 years ago… that part isn’t new.

          What’s weird is being invited to the ceremony but not the “real” party.

          1. +1 super fancy parties are not a new thing at all. My dad had a big party in the early 1960s.

        2. Bar/bat mitzvah parties that are more ridiculous than weddings are not a new thing at all. Some parents use it it as an opportunity to promote their own businesses. My relative had 500+ guests in the 1990s and maybe 20 of them were her own friends. The rest were her parents’ friends and her father’s clients. I’m sure the party costs in the hundreds of thousands to throw (it was extremely fancy and there was never-ending food for approximately 12 hours), but they were pretty sure they were going to make a decent chunk of it back with new business as a result of the party. The bat mitzvah girl also has to have gotten tens of thousands in gifts (most people give cash and even $50/head would be $25k) so there’s that…

        3. Extravagant bar mitzvahs have been a thing for decades. Whenever a TV show depicts bar mitzvahs as this lame event I think wow the writers clearly didn’t grow up with many Jewish people! I do think the big parties are usually more about the parents than the kid though. It’s a chance for the parents to invite who they want, spend money on the things they care about, and enjoy themselves without the typical wedding pressure or negotiating with in-laws. Especially now that people get married and have kids later, the grandparents will be around for the bar mitzvah but maybe not for the grandkid’s wedding. If people can afford the big party I understand why they take advantage of the chance to get everyone together. FWIW none of the Jewish kids I grew up with had sweet sixteen parties.

      2. A lunch and party (which may or may not be two separate events) are completely normal for bar/bat mitzvahs.

      3. Yeah, it’s interesting bc generally what I had always been taught is that confirmation is 100% a religious event, not a social one, and not an occasion for parties. I totally wanted to have a party when I was confirmed (bc my friends were all having their Bar/Bat Mitzvah parties), and my parents said no because it doesn’t have the dual social/religious significance in Christianity that a Bar/Bat Mitzvah does in Judaism. So I think the party is weird and I think it is super rude to invite kids to the service and not to all of the celebrations.

          1. I’ve literally never heard of a confirmation party and probably 75% of my friends were confirmed (Catholic or mainline Protestant) (the other 25% had bat mitzvahs).

          2. I’m Jewish but I’ve never heard of a confirmation party (at least not with friends from outside church) for a Christian person. Growing up, the Jews had bar and bat mitzvahs, the Latinos had quinces, and the white people who were Christian and atheist had sweet sixteens.

      4. Since she’s talking about bar mitzvahs, I assumed she was using “confirmation service” to mean the bar mitzvah religious service at the temple. Bar mitzvah and confirmation are different but many non-Jews equate them.

        I think it’s sort of odd to invite a similar age kid to the temple service and brunch, but not to the big party and I’d be annoyed about that too.

        1. This is how I read it too.

          We are not Jewish, but from what I have seen amongst friends, if there is any discrepancy in the guest list between the service and the party, it is often that the big party that has more same-aged friends than the temple service…

          1. Yes. You might invite an 8 year old cousin to brunch but not to the party, because those can run too late for younger kids. But I’ve never heard of a 12/13 year old friend making the cut for brunch but not the party. Brunch is normal more about family and the party more about the kid’s friends.

        2. Ah. That was confusing to me. I thought she was saying she understood how bar/bat mitzvahs worked with the service followed by a larger party since they’re common in her area, but since she isn’t Christian she was confused by the confirmation protocol.

          I’m the Episcopalian commenter from above – in my bar/bat mitzvah experience it would be very weird to invite someone to the service and brunch but not the party? When I attended bar/bat mitzvahs my mom always made me attend both the ceremony and the party but there’d be a handful of kids at the service and like a hundred at the party.

    2. I’m so confused. There was an after-party that your kid wasn’t invited to? Maybe the other kid just invited friends from her current school.

    6. I think it’s extremely rude to single out one (or a handful of) kid to not be invited to the “afterparty.” Seems likely your kid will find out about it somehow, and worst-case (but likely) scenario is that they’ll find out about it while they’re at the brunch when other kids talk excitedly about it. I’d hate to be in that position. Unless your kid is dying to go to the brunch, I’d make up a reason they can’t go and pass.

      Also, to parents who do stuff (or allow their kids to do stuff) like this, do better!

    7. This is strange- what was your bad/bat mitzvah experience pre COVID?

      In our area it’s still the traditional (from back in MY day, mid 90s) ceremony followed by big (super sweet 16 style) party after.

      FWIW my family is not Jewish, but I grew up with a lot of Jewish kids and my kids have a decent amount of Jewish friends. I just texted my daughter’s BFF’s mom who is planning her 3rd bat mitzvah now. She said in your case maybe wires got crossed as the big party is usually for everyone and the brunch is usually a smaller more select group.

      1. Yeah that’s my experience. Everyone is invited to the party; brunch is family and close friends. It’s strange.

      1. Seems like she saw a post about it on social media after the party.

        I didn’t grow up in an area with bar/bat mitzvahs but I agree with OP’s hunch and PPs that it’s odd to not invite all the kids invited to the service to the party.

    9. This is confusing. Can you repost without the parentheticals? All the tangents make it hard to follow.

    10. I am confused. Are you talking about a bat mitzvah or a confirmation? In my mainline protestant denomination confirmation is a purely religious event. Maybe you do brunch afterwards with any family who attended the service. A confirmation party would be super weird.

      In general, I assume that if my kid was not invited to a party then she was not really “in” with those kids and the non-invitation is a sign that she should let some distance develop. Kid can get her feelings hurt; it’s up to the parents to provide perspective.

    11. I’m also confused about timing… did party & confirmation happen the same day and were they for the same occasion? If yes, it’s weird to not include some kids and I’d assume error (e.g., evite got spammed or a copy/paste fail).
      If a different day or different reason for party, i mean, s uc ks that your kid wasn’t included, but I don’t think that’s something to get salty about. Assuming these are big events, you also probably can’t tell from social media that 99% of kids were at both so it’s just YOUR KID being left out versus it being a “new school kids only” group.

    12. I agree this is odd. I’m wondering if the mom wanted to invite your family and the kid didn’t, and they compromised on inviting your kid to the service and brunch, which is normally more of a family event, but not the party, which is normally more of a friend event. If so I think that’s pretty crappy, and as a Jewish mom I wouldn’t let my kid invite someone her own age to her bat mitzvah service unless they were also invited to the party.

      1. This. It sounds like an old friend, new friend thing. Old friends are treated like family, but they don’t fit it with the new friends so they’re not invited to the party. You can interpret that as the host thinking they’re not cool and not wanting them there or be a little more generous and just not want them to be at a party where they don’t know anyone and wouldn’t have fun. I admit the latter is less likely, but you never know.

    14. “IDK if this is typical for tweens”
      I mean, middle schoolers have been catty to each other since the dawn of time. I agree it’s cruddy to leave a single kid out, but unfortunately this kind of thing does happen. How does your kid feel about it? I think helping them navigate this is where you should put your attention, rather than your FB friend status with the other mom.

    15. This is really hard to follow… I had sweet sixteen style bar mitzvahs every weekend of seventh grade, sometimes two per weekend. Usually the service is in the morning at temple and the big party is at a separate venue (either at night or a hired bus drives everyone from temple to the daytime party). Pickup from the service can be annoying if you’re unfamiliar from the temple and don’t know how long it will last. But most people carpool so the driving isn’t a big deal. Traditionally the gift is a check in multiples of 18, so $18 or $36. No one expects you to give an expensive gift. It’s very unusual to be invited to the service but not the party though. I’ve never seen this happen so I suspect there was a mix-up if you think everyone was invited to the party except your kid.

    16. I have no idea what this event actually was, but as someone said above, middle school students have been catty since the dawn of time. And my guess as to what happened here – is that the kid only invited current school friends to party with them afterwards. Sounds like your kid is a pre pandemic friend who no longer goes to the same school and only sees the kid at some activities. Bet the kid wanted to party with the people she sees all day every day and was like – nah it’ll be awkward to have these extra friends who don’t know my school friends. I’m guessing the other kids excluded were also from camps or wherever, but not school. Now whether this should have been allowed or not is up to the parents. I feel like parents should say – either someone is invited to every event or none because they will see it on social media. But let’s be real, parents are pretty ok with mean girl behavior these days.

      1. I agree it’s nicer to invite to both events – or not at all. This approach feels more clear cut. But I would also expect the not at all path to result in potential hurt feelings

        1. In general I agree, but in this case it sounds like they weren’t really in touch anymore and her family wouldn’t have necessarily even known about the bat mitzvah if they hadn’t been invited to the service and the brunch. Even if they’re still social media friends and would have found out about the existence of the bat mitzvah, I don’t think it’s hurtful to not invite someone you no longer attend school with and haven’t really stayed friends with. If you’re talking about inviting most but not all of a current class, then yes definitely hurtful to the few who don’t get invited. But it doesn’t sound like that was the fact pattern here.

    19. So, the culture in our synagogue (and city to a lesser degree) is a lot less fancy party than many of the posters here (I think those huge expensive parties are extremely weird), but we do have evening parties and I think it would be within the realm of normal that “family friends” might be invited to the service and following lunch but only the kid’s individual friends to the party (school friends, synagogue friends). But even in that scenario this seems like an unfortunate oversight for your kiddo.

  5. Has anyone used DC Derm Docs for laser hair removal in DC? Or have any recs for anyone else? Preferably downtown, would love to just buy a package without having to do a consultation, feel free to tell me if that’s not a good idea.

    1. I have, I believe they have you do the consultation bc they will test a patch of skin first to make sure you don’t have a reaction within the few days after (so I don’t think they will go ahead with whole first session without the consultation/test for safety). I have done 5/6 sessions and while my underarm hair is more fine and grows less quickly then it used to, I am no where near hair free. Not sure if the type of laser they use is not that good for my coloring (olive skin and dark hair) or what. Not interested in doing more sessions at this time, at least now if I don’t shave for a few days the hair isn’t as noticeable as it used to be.

  6. I don’t know if I’m depressed, but I’m something very close to it. I’m already on an SSRI, and I truly don’t have time to see a therapist until I’m through a big work project, which is still 3 weeks away. Any tips on how to make it through until I can focus on my health more? I’m trying to focus on the basics (sleep, eating decent food) but I’m honestly kind of a wreck right now and my sleep quality shows it.

    As an aside, my mental health seems to tank every October. I don’t get it. The weather is typically really nice and I spend as much time outdoors and in nature as I can. It doesn’t help that October is one of my busiest, most stressful months work-wise. But it is really REALLY frustrating to deal with this.

    1. You don’t get why your mental
      Health tanks in your busiest most stressful work month every year? It isn’t a mystery!

      1. Yeah, I agree with this. Your mental health tanks every year because it is your stressful, busy season. You are in the thick of it now, but before next October you should:
        (1) Find a different job that does not have this mega-crunch time, since your mind and body are telling you this is not good for you, or
        (2) Prepare to make your life as easy as possible. Go to bed as early as possible every day. Only eat pre-made salads and soups so you aren’t meal prepping and cooking. Hire a weekly cleaning service, even if you don’t normally use one at all. Do lots of yoga.

    2. Perhaps you suffer from SAD (seasonal affective disorder) and notice the effects in October because the days (sunlight) start getting shorter. Maybe you perk up in the months afterward from holiday cheer/family time? I’m purely speculating here, but you could try getting yourself a SAD light box.

    3. Are you getting any movement? 15-30 minutes of yoga or walking every day really helps me a lot. And also lots of sleep and drinking water but sounds like you’re already doing that.

    4. Definitely try to do some movement for you physical and mental health. It always get harder for me to run outside in October when it gets cold so that could be a contributing factor. Are you seeing friends and family? It always helps me to spend time with people are get out of my own head. Also, I hear three weeks is not a long time to wait for an appt with a therapist so I would schedule the appt asap!!

    5. Meditation and hard exercise. I also saw a tweet about cold showers releasing dopamine and helping with depression which sounds like pseudo-science nonsense but maybe it’s pseudo-science nonsense that will help you!

    7. October is my hardest month for mental health almost always, because of the loss of sunlight. I need an SSRI mostly because of the winter months here. I imagine you don’t want to attempt a med change in busy season. A SAD lamp and vitamin D supplements can help. Are you able to take walks outside midday?

  7. I need to teach something a bit out of my wheelhouse this week – the analysis of political biographies. Anyone have any essays written by politicians, activists, etc, that they’d recommend for the workshop (where students analyse the core texts)?
    Preferably beyond the “usual suspects” of the big beasts in American and British politics? Maybe women, people of colour, indigenous leaders?

    3. Elizabeth Penashue – link to book on Amazon to follow

      Or Canada’s current Governor General who is an Inuit woman – Mary Simon – career diplomat – list of publications on her Wikipedia article

    4. What about the Indian in the Cabinet by Jodi Wilson Raybould? Indigenous Canadian Member of Parliament , and her story with democracy and partisanship. Published last year so it’s current and interesting. It’s a book, not an essay, but it’s not a hard read.

    5. I’ve been reading Frederick Douglass’s autobiography Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, An American Slave Written By Himself. There are probably essays discussing it but I don’t know of any offhand.

  8. We finally went denim-OK at work in 2017/2018. Then COVID hit. I didn’t wear jeans except very casually for years (schools closed). Now, I am trying to wear those jeans just b/c they are what I own. OMG. I feel like my stomach is totally exposed. These jeans were normal jeans, likely mid-rise, when I got them, but compared to some 2020/2022 office pants re-buys (so less BR Sloans and more relaxed business-casual attire for warmer months) and Athleta higher-waisted leggings that they just feel so wrong now. These were all curvy-cuts, so IDK whether that exists. I’d like something belly-button level (vs sky-high rise) that accommodates a stomach/hips/thighs without needing a belt to stay up. Does this exist?

    1. Of course, you’re wearing out of date jeans. Go anywhere and get new ones that are higher rises.

    2. You just need to try on a lot of pairs until you find what works for you. I’m a total fan of NYDJ Marilyn.

      2. Was also coming here to recommedn NYDJ Marilyn. I’m wearing a pair right now at the office!

    4. For pre-COVID jeans (and even suiting pants, BR Logan), there were curvy cuts. Maybe needed for mid-rise or skinny cuts? But now, it doesn’t seem to be a concept at my old go-to, the Gap. Any recommendations from my fellow pears? Or are you having the tailor sew in darts?

      1. Loft, Ann Taylor, Express, White House Black Market all have curvy cuts. So does Abercrombie, which seems to be everyone’s favorite for jeans these days.

        1. Agree. Pretty much all my pants these days are from Loft, AT and WHBM. Gap has never worked well for me, fwiw.

    5. Head to Nordstrom or a jeans boutique and just try them on until you find what you want. Agree with others that you’re kind of fighting the trend now (not that there’s anything wrong with that!) so you need a bigger pool to look through to find what works.
      FWIW, as someone who also prefers curvy fit, and who turned 40 in quarantine & has spent a lot of the last 2.5 years in elastic waisted pants, my tolerance for “hard pants” has just significantly dropped during that time! Not sure if it’s my body changing (I’m less curvy and more straight as waist has thickened) or my needs.

      1. I’m with you. I was a sweatpants-only kid until almost middle school because I can’t tolerate anything tight on my waist. I hope stretchy pants stay around forever.

      2. Maybe it is time to revisit wearing curvy jeans and pants. If your waist to hit ratio is different to reflect a squarer torso, you may do better with regular cut, possibly with sizing up.

    6. I like Joe’s, Lucky Brand, and Good American curvy cuts. They have plenty of high waisted options. It’s frustrating that most brands don’t have curvy cut straight jeans though! I only see curvy skinnies. Those of us with small waists and big booties want to be trendy too.

  9. Help! I have a cedar hope chest that smells terribly of mothballs. A couple of years ago, I left it out in the sun / to air out a lot, and that didn’t work, so I sanded it down and painted the inside with two coats of Kilz. It still stinks! The hope chest is sentimental – it was my mother’s, who has now passed away, but I really can’t use it to store anything! I’m usually a function over sentiment person, but I haven’t tossed it yet. What would you recommend doing?

    1. 1) try setting a bowl of white vinegar in there to see if that absorbs some of the scent?
      2) try lavender sachets or cedar balls?

    2. Can you store items in it that do not absorb smells? Alternately, the internet suggests using charcoal or even coffee grounds.

      1. I don’t even want to *open* it, the stench is bad. I can/have stored paper/books in there, but it still absorbs some scent.

    3. I would try filling it with a bunch of those charcoal air fresheners. Baking soda is another option. I’ve also had luck with the Smells Begone Air Freshener Odor Absorbing gel (in unscented).

    4. Thanks, all. I have tried baking soda (essentially a whole box, dumped in there, for a week), but haven’t tried vinegar, charcoal, or ‘smells begone’. I will pick up some and carry on.

  10. Has anyone given a partner an ultimatum, like “get your life together or I’m out?” Did it work?

    The man in question has crippling mental health issues that result in him quite literally abandoning me on the street sometimes. I love him deeply but he’s not ready to deal with the level of relationship I want. I feel so deeply for him but my needs are not being met.

    1. Yes. It worked. I left and gave myself permission never to look back. He never got his sh*t together. It just took me a while to realize that hope on my end would never be enough. Give yourself the gift of walking out the door.

    2. I have not but I gotta say; this is not going to work. He’s showing you who he is. Don’t make the ultimatum and then fuss around being mad that he won’t do it. Just move on. Which I realize is hard.

    3. Break up and give yourself the gift of a happy life. I was with that guy for years, no ultimatum or other words had any effect. I’m now married to a wonderful man I never would have met had I not chosen to end things. Love isn’t enough.

      2. + 2, from someone who’s been there and done that. And a profoundly mentall ill but highly intelligent person can convince you he is working on it and he will have his act together any minute, just hang on. He might believe that, but he will be wrong. I’m sorry to say this, but go now.

      3. This is really hard to read as someone who is disabled (not every malady that afflicts humans can be fully treated!) and who just doesn’t function the way I used to.

        I agree though that it should be viewed as something that is not likely to change / if anything is more likely to get worse than to get better.

          1. I don’t think that anyone is owed a partner. But “love is not enough” and “doesn’t matter how wonderful he is if he cannot function” make it sound like disability is a dealbreaker for a lot of people weighing in here.

          2. There is disability and then there is the kind of disability that makes you treat your partner like garbage, which may or may not be entwined with a bad personality. No one is obligated to take on a partner who treats them like garbage, for whatever reason.

          3. Nowhere did OP say her boyfriend’s inability to hold down a job was related to a disability. Some people are just non-functional adults, without being disabled. And it’s up to OP to decide whether she can deal with that, which it sounds like she can’t – and that’s her own, perfectly valid choice.

          4. I’ll say it: A disability that keeps someone from functioning emotionally as a full partner, especially if bad behavior were involved, would be a dealbreaker for me. I’d much sooner sigh on for a physical disability, even a major one.

          5. Disability is no excuse for bad behavior.

            I do wonder if people stigmatize mental illness more than they realize (or if it’s overdiagnosed in people who are just behaving badly, which leads to more stigma). But if it looks exactly the same externally, is a panic attack less sympathetic than an incident of hypoglycemia or vasovagal syncope? Maybe the answer is yes; I’m honestly not sure.

    5. Mental health issues are so so tough and while I’m sympathetic to all involved, I would not stick around. Mental health must be dealt with quickly and it is something that in some cases, never really goes away. I gave an ex an ultimatum to put a ring in it after 5 years. There’s a reason he’s an ex. Ultimatums are a good way for you to leave without feeling guilty. You don’t need to do that.

    6. Get out now. No ultimatum will cure a mental health issue. Even if he does get his $h!t together now, it’s likely that the issue will recur later in life. If you have kids you will not be able to get out then.

    7. Just break up. Do you want a partner who continually needs Come to Jesus Talks to meet your basic needs?

    8. Ultimatums generally aren’t received in the spirit they’re given. You intend to communicate: I love you deeply and want to be with you but I cannot live with this one thing that I have tried to talk to you about and only you can change, please I’m begging you change it for us. They hear: I’ve got one foot out the door because you’re not good enough, or some such variation; what they DO NOT hear is, this great person wants me and the power is in my hands to fix it or mess it up. This goes doubly when mental health issues are involved. I don’t think there’s a way to deliver an ultimatum that the recipient will take to heart if they’re not otherwise hearing you.

      I’ve done this twice (apparently I’m a slow learner). One was mental health related. He stopped taking his meds and refused to go to a doctor even if I made the appointment. He still didn’t do anything after the ultimatum. The other was alcohol related. I told him he needed to get treatment immediately or I was out. He called his PCP, who scheduled a regular physical for him something like 9 months out (he hadn’t gone to the dr in so long he was considered a new patient). Never tried to go to a meeting or treatment facility or even call a therapist. I broke up with both of them. AFAIK they never got their ish together.

    9. Is he your husband? If not count yourself lucky and just break up with his. There is no point to an ultimatum.

    10. I gave DH an ultimatum similar to this about 10 years ago. It worked…. and things were great for a while… but now we are essentially back to the same point and I am kicking myself for not just ending things before life got a whole lot more complicated.

    11. It’s so hard.

      Captain Awkward has some really great resources to help you think through how to deal with this – because you can’t control his mental health issues, or how he values your relationship, but you can make the choice to keep him in your life and deal with the mental health stuff as a the price of admission, or not.

    12. No ultimatums here. Just break up. You need to enjoy solitude or time with a partner who can meet your needs. He needs to focus on his health and not a relationship.

    13. My friend was in a long term relationship with a guy who had untreated depression. She tried convincing him to see a different psychiatrist, adjust his ADHD meds, try therapy, etc. and he refused. I understand that it’s hard to seek help while you’re experiencing mental health issues but as a partner you can only lead the horse to water. My friend eventually left him and she has no regrets. If he’s abandoning you, refusing to recognize it as a problem, and won’t get help now what do you think will happen ten years down the line? If you eventually have kids together do you want to be responsible for constantly monitoring his mental health, forcing him into treatment, and essentially solo parenting until he gets back on track?

    14. Talk to a psychologist who can give you guidance on how to best approach this, if at all; what you can expect from him receiving treatment; what problems will likely arise even if he does receive treatment; and how much you are willing to put into this relationship and whether or not it can meet your long term needs.

      2. Do not do all of this for some dude you are dating. The dude needs to be capable of managing his own mental health treatment before he is in a serious romantic relationship.

        I say this as a woman happily married to a dude with mental health issues that will last forever. He needs to find his own way.

    15. Yes, I gave this ultimatum to a former partner. He did not get help for his alcoholism, which is what he needed to do to be able to hold down a job, be loving and caring and supportive partner, etc. After I left him, I met a really nice man and married him. A few years later, my ex literally drank himself to death (died of alcoholic pancreatitis). Really glad I didn’t keep hanging in there, crossing my fingers he would change.

      1. Counterpoint: I gave my partner the ultimatum that if he didn’t get sober, and stay sober, I was no longer going to stick around and watch him kill himself slowly. He’s now proudly 7 years sober and we are still happily together.

        1. If you’re going to post stuff like this then please include more context so you don’t mislead women into staying in potentially dangerous situations. Like: I gave him an ultimatum and he checked himself into a rehab that day, if he had not done that I would have left. Not: hang in there girl he can totes do it! Which is kind of how your post comes off. I’m glad it worked out for you but surely you recognize that you’re in the minority?

          2. Omg no, 7 years is something to be proud of. If you are an alcoholic I think every day is something to be proud of! It makes me so sad to see someone devalue other people’s significant accomplishments.

          3. It’s not devaluing the accomplishment, but she’s got to live with him for like 50 years, not 7 years.

          4. You gotta hit 7 before you hit 50! Every step of the way is an accomplishment and she should be proud of him!

    16. I am someone who has a history of dating people who needed some ultimatums… Stop emotionally abandoning me or I’m gone. Stop physically abandoning me or I’m gone. Stop forcing me to give ultimatums or I’m gone. Ya know what happened every time? I didn’t leave (because I loved the person deeply), they learned to ignore my pleas, and we continued on. And then ya know what happened? I’d be here on this site, asking for help getting him to do or not do something. And then I’d ignore the people who told me to leave (because they didn’t understand how deeply I loved him). And then I’d be here on this site anonymously asking (because I felt ashamed of not listening the first thousand times people kindly told me). And then I stopped asking because it became my normal. And then I became lesser so I could shrink myself and be okay with this normal because I loved him deeply.

      And then? Then I became less of myself. I traded bits of myself for more moments with the guy. And then guy never changed and I did- not for the better. Until I eventually got left. And then I was not with him AND not with myself.

      And THAT took so so much more time to heal from than healing from being a full person who left someone refusing to become full.

      I have absolute certainty that you desperately want someone here to tell you how to make him change, to offer magic advice, or even to give you permission to keep waiting. Please know I won’t judge if you keep waiting. Please also know that the change in him won’t happen any time soon but the change in you has already begun. You posted anonymously, but I am certain that you are not someone who is a shell of a person, you are not someone who deserves to have a crummy life, and you are not someone who should have the sort of relationship that requires posting on the internet about how to beg someone to treat them decently. Please do Future You a favor and get her out of this now. Present You won’t enjoy the process but Past You did too much work to let Present You make her into a shell of the bad@$$ Future You can be.

      Sending you love as I know none of this is what you want to hear and reminding you that, as deeply as you love him, now is the time to deeply love yourself.

    17. I gave my husband the ultimatum to get his anger under control or leave. He went into therapy and got on medication. The situation changed dramatically for the better and we are still together 20 years later.

      1. But I think this is an example of an exception not the rule. Still very happy things turned out well for you!!!

        1. And she was already married to him! Very different situation. An ultimatum is appropriate in marriage if you don’t want to just DMFA.

    18. You can try the ultimatum, but I suspect it will be more for you than for him. I have seen this a few times in my friend circle and 100% of the time, the ultimatum doesn’t result in real change, but it did help the partner who gave it feel like they tried everything to make it work before walking away from a relationship that was draining them and/or force them to follow through their commitment to leave because now they’ve now they’ve voiced it and their partner or friends will know if they stay anyway.

  11. I was yesterday years old when I realized that SLAC = Small Liberal Arts College. I thought it was the athletic conference for Swarthmore, Bucknell, Muhlenburg, etc. Aiiiii — in my defense, I live in SEC/ACC territory.

    1. Many SLACs are in the NESCAC, but Bucknell is Patriot League which is actually D1!

      12 years ago my college search was made up almost entirely of NESCAC and Patriot League schools, ended up at a Patriot League school and absolutely loved it.

    2. I am college acronym fluent, and there are so many acronyms. Your post made me laugh out loud on a gray Monday morning, so thank you.

  12. I just want to throw something (usually not a thrower or yeller). 2022 is even worse than 2020 (then: just keep treading water and don’t drown; now: spring and wrangle for client origination credits with a shark; deal with admin nonsense; deal with inability to rationally hire for known staffing needs).

    I should do something more rational, with at least a possible upside, like buy a lottery ticket at lunch, no?

    2. Lean into throwing things? Go to one of those axe throwing places. Take a kick boxing class and imagine the shark’s face.

  13. Going to DC this week for work and I have a dumb question. Temp highs are supposed to be in the low 70s. Here in Chicago I would not wear tights with a work dress unless it was below 65 or so – same in DC? Bare legs are ok with the weather this week?

    1. I am not in DC either, but there is no way I would wear tights if the weather is in low 70s.

      1. I’m so cold-natured that I would not survive the morning commute, so it’s pants weather for me b/c I dress for comfort (and agree that in the afternoon tights would not be needed).

    3. I was in DC last week when highs were in the 50s and didn’t wear tights or socks. It was chilly but still mild, I wouldn’t consider it in the 70s.

    5. No tights. People aren’t really wearing them yet in Philly, much less DC. I usually break them out in mid-Nov.

    6. No need to wear them, but I’m also not shocked to see them at this time of year. DC in the fall is weird, because when the temps are in the 60s or below, half the people are bundled up like it’s the middle of winter and the other half are still treating it like summer. Last week I saw people in thick winter coats next to people in shorts

      1. Right?? Or a woman wearing strappy sandals next to a woman wearing knee high boots.

        Knee high boots with dresses and no tights get a lot of hate around here, but I love that combo because it keeps me a little warmer in the morning when it’s cold, but is not as hot as tights as the weather gets warmer in the afternoon. I remember seeing that look a lot around Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, too. Maybe they have similarly cool mornings and warm afternoons. Or maybe we’re all just kind of unfashionable.

        Anyway, tights or no tights, doesn’t matter. You will see it all!

  14. For anyone who uses Paula’s Choice 2%, at what step do you apply it? Does it really help with blackheads? I have also had a ton of blackheads on my nose no matter what I do, thinking about trying this out

    1. following! I put that on first, only on my chin and nose; then I put on vitamin C serum, moisturizer, and sunscreen. if I’m doing Good Genes I skip both Paula and Vitamin C and put on GG instead.

    2. I only wear it at night maybe 3x a week. I do toner, Paula’s Choice, eye cream, and moisturizer. On nights I don’t wear it I’ll do HA in its place. In the mornings I do toner, HA some days, eye cream and spf moisturizer.

      My face couldn’t handle Vitamin C or retinol and I purposely don’t use HA or Paula’s Choice every day.

    3. Those spots on your nose are probably not blackheads but instead just sebaceous filaments and they are pretty much inevitable. You can get them out but they come back. Salicylic Acid is not a bad idea, but I use it and have never gotten rid of them.

    4. Not what you asked, but I found Paula’s Choice to be a bit too expensive for me and found a dupe. The product is called the same thing, but it’s by Naturium and sold at Target. The bottle is translucent dark blue plastic.

  15. So…I’m hiring manager for a US biopharma position. We’re finding some good candidates that came to the US for PhD and sometimes have moved on to post-doctoral work at the university. These ppl are on H1Bs. Can someone explain how these ppl can accept our position and work here? I’m an Old- back when my labmates were doing this, the ability to stay and work was far far easier and companies also officially sponsored and legal grps helped routinely.

    2. Your legal team needs to be involved – but short version is your company needs to file a set of forms showing that you will employ them under the terms and conditions required and then once that is approved they can move to working for you assuming their visa has portability attached to it.

    3. The short answer is your company will need to sponsor a visa and eventually maybe a green card. This is a question for Human Resources, as most companions have policies about sponsorship. Everywhere I’ve worked, the policy has been “no.”

    4. I’m sorry but this is unhinged. Call in house counsel. You work at a real company with real money. Do not crowdsource legal questions.

    5. your employer would need to sponsor a visa or Greencard. With PhDs and strong research record, there is a chance to get them that within a few months but you need an immigration lawyer.

    6. You need to talk to legal. There are specific requirements to get a visa for an employee, and you need to make sure that you have done the steps to ensure that they can get a visa.

  16. Thanks to whoever recommended the CG smoothers stick concealer. I ordered online since none in my nearby stores and the color is PERFECT (by some miracle) and the texture is GREAT! :)

  17. I have yet to take a vacation since the pandemic and very much would like to go to Hawaii. My husband is less keen because watching our toddler son doesn’t seem like a vacation at all. I am looking into hawaii, and it does seem expensive. (Ex- 500/night hotels, 350 pp airfare). I could use points for the flight or for a resort, but we wouldn’t have a kitchen at the resort and it would be expensive. Alternatively we could scrap hawaii and go somewhere closer (based on the west coast), so san diego seems like an easy choice. Recs on what to do? How to spend the points (hotel vs flights)?

    1. Those are cheap AF prices for Hawaii, if they’re at a nice resort I would grab it and go.

      1. Yea I’ve never been to Hawaii because it is super expensive. OP must be leaving from the west coast for those prices!!! Wow.

      2. Go to Hawaii! I would use the points for flights and stay at a condo for the kitchen. Having a kitchen saved us a lot of $$ and we didn’t mind having cocktails on the deck …

    2. 350 per person airfare is an amazing deal for Hawaii airfare!!! Especially if you’re anywhere but a major west coast airport (SFO/LAX/SEA). For reference, I paid about $1,100 pp for Hawaii from Chicago last summer when airfare was much less crazy than it is now.

    3. Those are insanely good prices for HI and you should jump on them, not think they’re expensive. (I mean, they are expensive for other destinations! More per night than we spend on lodging anywhere. Just, really good for HI.)

        1. Yeah, I’m child free and still think Hawaii is one of the best places to vacation with little kids. If you don’t want to be around them, they’re easy to avoid at adults only pools or more tailored to honeymoon resorts. If I had kids, I’m not sure I’d vacation anywhere other than Hawaii.

          1. Eh, it depends on your personality but I’ve gone to Hawaii with a toddler twice and would take a trip to Hawaii with a toddler over no trip to Hawaii any day. Is an adults only trip more relaxing? Sure. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t really fun and worth doing even with a toddler.

            Now, if the adults don’t care much about Hawaii themselves, staying in the same time zone is definitely easier and the Caribbean is a great alternative for people on eastern/central time (although from the west coast the Caribbean is pretty much the same time change as Hawaii). But a comment to that effect (like the one from the Anon at 11:20) is very different than “ew don’t take a toddler to Hawaii”

          3. I love going somewhere new with kids, but this wouldn’t be the trip I would take them on. Too expensive and a lot of things that are better experienced as adults only for a couple. Take the little one on trips where the flight is shorter, where you’re not paying a premium to spend so much time back in the hotel and for experiences that won’t be memorable yet. In just 2-3 years, the trip as a family would be a whole lot more enjoyable and meaningful. For now, I’d do as a couple or choose a beach getaway state side (whatever is the easiest travel). And even good parents deserve a real vacation from parenting every now and then. It isn’t a personality deficit to do something sans kids OR a sign they’ll never do anything until the kids are 18. The judgment here some days…

          4. I have been to Hawaii with my kids at all ages and it’s still a wonderful vacation. Most hotels have lots of options for kids, kiddie pools, movie nights etc. Some of our best family memories are from Hawaii.

            OP has a kid now so I don’t know what y’all expect her to do! I wouldn’t have taken my kids to a party resort in Cancun, but Hawaii was totally laid back and perfect for kids.

    5. I would look for something that you & your husband would enjoy – maybe look at closer destinations where you can afford the ticket / hotel / babysitter. Hawaii is not going anywhere, you can enjoy it in a few years when your kid will be older.

    7. Can you bring grandma, etc.? Or go to a resort with childcare? When my kids were little, we needed one of those options to actually be able to enjoy a beachy vacation.
      If not hawaii, what about one of the Beaches resorts? We had a great experience at Beaches Turks & Caicos when my 1st was 2 and I was pregnant. Drop off childcare included in the resort cost was amazing.

      1. I was just talking with my niece who had a not fun vacation with her 2 year old because childcare at the resort she visited started at age 3. Gotta check the details.

        1. I would not put my kid in childcare at a resort for the simple reason that childcare is a germ factory. If you put your kid in with a group of new kids with new germs they are guaranteed to get sick and wreck your vacation.

          1. With the pandemic a lot of resorts have moved childcare programs entirely or mostly outside. The weather in Hawaii and the Caribbean is conducive to year round outdoor activities.

            My kid has done kids camps at resorts without getting sick several times post-pandemic. But she’s also a daycare kid who was sick pretty much none stop when she was 1 and now has a pretty good immune system at age 4. If your kid is not yet in school/daycare, I would expect more illness from playing with other kids.

          2. I agree. Yet also I am thinking, lol is there anything left for her to get?

            Signed, omg the RSV surge, but also we got exposed to hand foot mouth last week.

        2. I think that’s why that poster suggested Beaches. They’re pretty much alone in offering free childcare for all ages. At most resorts the only free option is the kids club, which starts at age 3 or 4 and children have to be potty-trained for that.

        3. Good point! One of the reasons Beaches is perfect is they do ALL ages – like babies and up. Many non-kid focused chains start at 3 or older.

    8. If you are lukewarm about Hawaii, I think with a toddler I would prioritize not having a time change (to avoid disrupting sleep) and having a seperate sleeping area so you can hang out in relative comfort while they nap. So spending more on hotel vs. flight at this age might be a worthwhile trade off. I still liked going on beach trips when my son was that age, as the beach really entertained him and I like being at the beach, but YMMV.

      1. Nope–The beauty of Hawaii is that you just stay on your old time zone–get up early and go snorkeling (it’s calmer/water is clearer), eat lunch and dinner early, and conk out early. From the West Coast, I never adjust in Hawaii and it’s perfect!

        And cosign that Hawaii is a great kids destination–even toddlers. Kids love beaches, colorful fish, and fun new things–Hawaii has all of that in spades.

    9. How old is your toddler? Flying to Hawaii from the west coast seems reasonable. I’d do it if I only had my 3 year old to travel with. $350 per person seems incredibly cheap for airfare. But alternatively, I think San Diego is fun. I think the Catamaran hotel in Pacific Beach has some sort of koi and duck lagoon that might be appealing to a toddler.

    11. At least on Maui, some of the resorts have suites with kitchens, but you can also rent condos for less and many have swimming pool access. Personally, I found Hawaii with a toddler a little tough because of the time zone and my neurotic 3 year old was afraid of ceiling fans and the wind, which were pretty much everywhere (my 1 y/o and 5 y/o were fine).

      San Diego is super fun with a toddler. Depending on the age of the toddler, there are lots of animals, and just sitting on the beach is nice. I personally think going somewhere new with a toddler is super fun, and even though you’re on their schedule, you can still try new restaurants, maybe have a glass of wine on the balcony while they’re asleep etc. I think it’s worth it!

    12. When our child was a toddler, our most successful vacations were where we stayed in the same time zone or just 1 hour off and had a suite, cabin, or apartment with a kitchenette and a separate bedroom. Our kid really needed to stick to his sleep routines, so we had a lot of time in the hotel room while he napped and after he went to bed. We also tended to keep activities simple–everything is new to toddlers! Beaches, short hiking trails, public transportation, playgrounds, etc.

    13. I loved both San Diego and Hawaii with a toddler. BUT we took my mom with us to both places, so we had a mixture of family time and couple time.

    14. Having traveled with toddlers it is my opinion that going to Hawaii would be a waste of money. While I do think a beach vacation is really the best for toddlers and parents alike, as it keeps them very busy and tired at the end of the day, a lot of time is spent in the hotel or condo with naps and such. I would recommend going to San Diego over Hawaii or even somewhere like southern Florida-somewhere cheaper at this age. Definitely get a place with a kitchen as that is key to not having to worry about eating out all the time especially with a toddler. It’s nice to have the option of meals there and snacks.

      1. Depends on your perspective. Agreed that to a 2 year old a beach is beach for the most part – they don’t care Hawaii vs Florida or even local lake beach. But if the parents want to go to Hawaii, it won’t be a waste of money. I’ve been to Hawaii with a toddler twice and don’t feel like either trip was wasted at all. Did I spend more time in the condo than I would have without kids, yeah. But I still saw beautiful scenery that’s unique to Hawaii, saw turtles lying on the beach, did amazing snorkeling, ate fantastic local food, visited volcanoes, etc. San Diego or even the Caribbean would not have been equivalent at all, even though they’re nice destinations in their own right.

        Also I think there’s a big difference between one toddler and toddlers plural. One is much easier, and sounds like OP only has one.

        1. So true. If it is my kid’s naptime, I would much rather be reading a book on a balcony overlooking the ocean at a resort than cleaning my house or answering emails at home!

    15. We are getting into the time of year where you can’t count on San Diego to be reliably warm. So if you’re looking for warm weather, that’s another point in the Hawaii column. That said, if you do go to San Diego, make sure to drive up the coast a bit to Legoland for the toddler.

    16. On the how to spend the points issue, for me it comes down to which option saves me more money (generally flights if using credit card points) and/or which option gives me the most flexibility to cancel (generally converting points to miles and booking flights that way).

    17. I’m near San Diego :) and love Hawaii (I’d do Maui with a little kid). For Hawaii, resorts are very expensive. You can get a condo. Kihei is a midrange choice if you don’t mind driving more. It’s not as glamorous as the rest of the resorts, but you can still walk cross the road to beaches.

      San Diego is going to get “cold” soon. I only go on beach walks, not ocean time after October. Carlsbad is nice with shopping and resorts and Legoland. My toddler enjoyed the experience, although skipped a nap. Then you can go down to Encinitas/Cardiff/Leucadia for the cute beach town/restaurant scene. The San Diego Safari park is a 30 min drive, but would be nice in winter.

  18. Tell me about your dream kitchen, assume the sky is the limit. I’m in early planning stages and while the sky is very much not the limit, I just want to live in dream world for a while and Pinterest / Instagram are failing me.

    1. When my uncle redid his kitchen, he put in what he called a “fry kitchen” – It’s a second smaller kitchen off the main that they use when they are making messy fried foods. It has a super powerful exhaust so that the fried food smell doesn’t get into the rest of the house. he says they are common in the part of Asia that he is from. (I think there was a NYTimes article about something similar… a second smaller kitchen, in the article they called it a “back kitchen”). Anyhow… I love this idea – to have a smaller kitchen for the messy stuff – seems so luxurious. If the sky was my limit, I would put one in.
      But realistically – huge pantry with lots of good shelving would be my number one wish list item right now.

      1. Haha this is like the summer kitchen of old. My old house has a former summer kitchen that was probably a screened porch back in the day. Now it’s a laundry room.

        You had your regular kitchen with a hearth, and a summer kitchen for when it was too hot to cook in the house. These two rooms are adjacent in my house but didn’t have to be.

        OP my dream kitchen has everything my current kitchen has – a giant pantry, a butler’s pantry between the kitchen and dining room, and a baking table/cabinet separate from the other countertops, but if I could start from scratch, the baking station would be a giant center island with no sink or cooktop, just a big counter with a lip on one side and bar height stools, and appliance garages on the side closest to the stove – kitchen aid mixer, cuisinart food processor, instant pot, crockpot etc.

        Right now we have the toaster, tea kettle, burr grinder, and coffee related stuff on the baking table (original to the house) which has to be cleared off if we want to use it as a baking table, so I guess a dedicated area for coffee/tea related items would also be great.

    2. My dream kitchen would have a pot filler facuet and an amazing exhaust fan. And never ending storage. And a sink large enough for my largest pan to soak in.

      1. Seconding amazing exhaust fan, as well as a huge sink that is big enough to soak anything in!

      2. i’ve heard disaster stories about pot filler faucets because if you have a leak, you usually have to tear out the backsplash, which makes it more complicated to fix. instead i’d have a second prep sink

    3. Definitely a window near the sink so you’re not doing dishes while staring at a wall. Massive island, room for a breakfast nook and kitchen table, lots of cabinets, two ovens, massive walk-in pantry, 2 wine fridges for red and white, lots of natural light, best appliances, etc. my color scheme would be mostly white or some black/navy thrown in.

    4. – Huge, well organized pantry.
      – if you entertain a lot, 2 dishwashers (between weekly meal prep and having a few guests over to watch baseball I ran my, admittedly small, dishwasher 3x yesterday)
      – similarly, if you entertain a lot 2 ovens. My parents have this and love it.
      – 6 burners, with the option to turn 2 into a griddle
      – lots of windows!
      -kitchen being open to a family room or something for entertaining
      – all of the storage (she says from her tiny, tiny apartment kitchen that doesn’t have a single drawer)

      1. +1 to two dishwashers. We give a lot of parties and that’s one thing I really wish I had! Also yes to two ovens and 6 burners, which we have and love.
        Also we have a warming drawer and we use it every. single. day. Bonus if you’re a baker because it has a “proof” setting.
        We have a big farmhouse sink and love it. Also we have one of those sprayers on a flexible hose like you see in restaurant dishwashing stations and it’s fabulous.
        Make sure you have good task lighting over the stove and the sink.
        Pullout trash.
        Our ovens have a “fast preheat” option and that’s great.

        1. Oh yeah, pull out trash and recycling is great. I have an old house but we needed new cabinets 10+ years ago (believe me when I say we were tearing out nothing original or precious) and we got the pull out thingy that houses two kitchen tall size bins, one for recycling and one for trash.

          We also have curbside composting for food scraps here in Berkeley so we technically could use a third container for that, but anything I try to store for more than a day gets fruit flies, so we just use a bowl on the counter and empty it into the bin outside every night. It has just become part of washing the dinner dishes.

    5. Separate pantry that also has ability to use small appliances (microwave, rice cookers, etc.) The fancy way of turning on and off the faucet with your foot. Drainboard grooves built into counter near sink.

      Then again, those are my preferences, haha.

    6. dream kitchen: i want a toe-kick vacuum like Skinnytaste has – https://www.tiktok.com/@skinnytaste/video/6916288832149196038?is_from_webapp=v1&item_id=6916288832149196038

      I’d also love a separate freezer and separate fridge, both built in, and definitely get a HUGE sink, especially if you’ve got an island. we have a big open concept kitchen where the sink is on the island and it just feels like everything is always cluttered even if it’s just the dishdrain and soap out — so consider that also. hate our drawer microwave, though.

      1. Toe-kick vacuum is amazing and the thing I miss most about my previous home. Bonus, if you have a baby with colic, kick it and let the soothing begin. As me how I know…

    7. Storage storage storage. Especially if you enjoy cooking and baking and like having the right equipment, not just any equipment. It is my biggest regret about my current kitchen, which is otherwise lovely. I did what I could with the space I had, but storage is super tight.

      I’d freaking love one of those spice drawers.

    8. induction stove, dishwasher placement and cabinet placement to make it easy to put away dishes, design to make it easy to keep things clean

    9. Aga
      Massive pantry
      Lots of natural light
      Not open plan
      Room for a loveseat
      Big double sink
      Cabinets with power outlet for permanent, hidden placement of big appliances

      1. I made a list yesterday and yours is almost identical!

        Also:
        soapstone counters
        kickplate step stools
        coffee/dog station with sink and dog food storage
        cookbook shelf
        window shelves for herbs
        double wall ovens

    10. I bought a house where someone had done a dream kitchen renovation, including:

      -La Cornue stove with double oven, 5 burners, and a built-in warming surface
      -Two dishwashers, hidden in the cabinets
      -Full standing freezer next to full refrigerator, both hidden in the cabinets
      -Island with double sink
      -Separate coffee station with sink
      -Separate wet bar with sink, wine fridge, and built-in liquor cabinets
      -Separate walk-in pantry with second full-sized fridge and freezer and second wine/beer fridge and another sink
      -All countertops and the hood marble
      -All appliances other than the stove are Wolff

      As someone who cooks and bakes a ton, much about this is glorious, with the exception of the La Cornue ovens, which take an insanely long time to preheat (like…45 minutes) and don’t have digital gauges so you only know you’re fully preheated when a light turns off and the marble, which stains/pits/etches so easily. Also, there isn’t actually that much counter space because of the very large stove/oven and the big sink. But the double dishwashers and the massive amount of storage (both fridge/freezer and pantry ) is great.

      1. Friends of ours just redid their kitchen and did a coffee bar with a sink! It’s great.
        Bummer about the La Cornue! They look so pretty.

      2. That sounds like my dream kitchen, aside from the ovens that take a while to preheat. A wet bar is fantastic, and I love five burner stoves. My only addition, which is specific to me, would be a LOT of storage for my bourbon and scotch collection.

    11. Huge walk-in pantry
      Two islands
      Two ovens
      Two dishwashers
      Two sinks

      Basically bigger and more of everything haha. We have a kitchen that is my dream from a visual perspective, but it’s small and we didn’t make it bigger and I definitely miss having more space and more appliances.

    12. My dream kitchen is tiny with a window and door so I can justifiably cook alone without anyone being under my feet! I hate cooking with other people though

      Maple flat front cabinets to the ceiling, “super white” granite counters and backsplash, Bosch dishwasher, bertazzoni stove, a nice fridge (no ice maker, they always break), and no microwave because in this fantasy I have enough time to properly reheat and defrost everything.

    13. Here’s my dream kitchen: Soft-close cabinets and drawers. All lower cabinets and the pantry have pull-out drawers. There’s a pull-out spice rack next to the stove so I’m not rifling around a high cabinet on my tippy toes. The very top shelf of each upper cabinet has a glass front so I can display pretty knick knacks but everything else is wood – I hate looking at stacks of plates. I prefer peninsulas over islands, and mine would have a higher counter on the outside of the kitchen with bar stools. The inside of the peninsula is regular countertop height so I have a messy prep space out of my guests’ eyeline. Of course there are gorgeous pendant light fixtures above the peninsula. There’s a separate mini fridge for soft drinks and white wine. A butler’s pantry links the kitchen to the dining room. I’d keep all my coffee and tea gear in there (I have a lot of it).

    14. My dream kitchen is probably not the standard, because I love the efficiency of working in a galley kitchen. I wouldn’t necessarily make it a galley, but I’d want to replicate the flow as much as possible. I’ve been in big square kitchens where the prime work areas – fridge, stove, sink – are nowhere near each other, which makes cooking harder.

      I would want:
      – Not open plan
      – Good natural light, ideally from a big window and a skylight, but a window at the minimum
      – Counter space next to sink, stove, and refrigerator
      – Ample storage
      – No brand preference, but a wide fridge that isn’t super-deep so everything is visible
      – Counter-height seating space for 2-3 people so a friend or two can sip wine or tea and chat while I’m cooking

    15. Pull-out drawers for all lower cabinets! My parents had these in their old house – amazing! Cabinets designed to hold appliances/tall items like blenders, etc. Skylight/as much natural light as possible. Maximize counter space. If there is an island, would rather have the range vs the sink incorporated into it. Lots of natural stone. Solid wood cabinets in a natural finish. Solid unlacquered brass fixtures and hardware. Flat top grill (like a Blackstone) built-in – great for eggs/bacon, burgers, pancakes, grilled cheese, you name it!

    16. I actually have double wall ovens (the Jenn-Air kind; I posted about it here before and someone helpfully told me that they’re notoriously badly installed), and even before they were on the fritz, I was sort of irritated with them, because my biggest baking dishes didn’t fit. I think I’d rather have a traditional stove with an oven in it, and perhaps a single wall oven for extra space. It could be combined with a microwave so it looks like double wall ovens, because I do like that look and figuring out where to put microwaves has plagued me in every kitchen ever.

      Most of my wants relate to storage: a tall cabinet with built-in dividers for sheet pans and the like, good deep drawers near the stove for pots, space to keep the stand mixer on the counter because it makes me happy, space to keep other appliances on the counter but tucked out of sight because they make me less happy. A good deep sink and a window over the stove are also little wants of mine.

    18. One thing to add: I want storage for a mop, dust buster, and broom right next to or in the kitchen.

  19. This might sound crazy so just know that it is coming from a place of love/best interest of the child.

    I have 3 kids. Two of them are who they are, and behave the same at school. One of my kids is sort of a wild thing at home but is an entirely different person at school. She’s 9 but it has been this way since preschool. When we mention concerns about behavior, attention, friendship dynamics, etc at school they look at us like we have two heads.

    Whatever magic is happening at school we’d like to replicate at home, or at least continue to set up our daughter for success as she grows up. I joked a few years ago that she’d be a great navy SEAL (she loves languages, is extremely athletic and swims like a fish, has no fear, loves to be sneaky and I swear is part ninja) but upon more thought, a military life or something similar might be exactly where she would thrive.

    Any thoughts on parenting styles, after school activities, or even types of private schools (she’s in public now and fine but we could consider private high school) that work well for kids like this?

    For athletics, she likes what she likes and hates what she hates and there is no grey area, except for swim team, which she generally likes but when she would prefer to “sit out” she’s already in the water and would otherwise drown so she keeps swimming ;).

    1. Sounds like she’s learned what behavior serves her well at “work” vs. her relaxed home self.

      1. Yeah, I’m not seeing the problem? It’s a great skill to be able to navigate different environments.

      2. Cosign. My younger is not the mature, helpful, cooperative kid that all her teachers see, but I chalk that up to her being most comfortable with us and knowing we’ll love her even if she is a mess. I don’t think it’s a bad thing or that it’s something you can (or should try to) change.

      1. +1

        I don’t see what the problem is here. It sounds like you daughter is going to readily figure out what she likes to do and will do that. She controls herself perfectly at school. Sounds talented and interesting.

        Is she causing serious problems at home? Lying? Doing bad things?

    3. Can you expand on the differences? A lot of kids are better behaved at school, and then kind of lose it when they get home because they’re exhausted from holding it together all day.

      1. This. Sounds either normal or like what undiagnosed ADHD in high-functioning girls looks like.

        1. +1. This was me. I’ve always been a high performer at school and work but have ADHD (undiagnosed until my 30s). My only advice to her (and you) is to stay active – strenuous exercise is super key for my mental health and functioning.

          1. And also I don’t see a problem with this – she’s doing great. Parenting her might be harder (sorry, mom and dad – ha!) but that’s the luck of the draw with kids. (My eldest is like me and every time my parents visit they chuckle a bit.)

          2. I would keep a close eye on things and have her evaluated if you have suspicions. Oftentimes school will say she is doing great when in fact she is not. A kid shouldn’t have to use up every last ounce of her energy just to stay afloat in elementary school. Elementary school should be super easy, especially for a smart kid these days where the academics are dumbed down. Life with undiagnosed or undertreated ADHD can be so much harder than it needs to be, both for kids and for parents.

          3. Oh, definitely get her treated! I don’t mean to say that. I’m just saying there’s nothing *wrong* with having these tendencies that needs military school, or that she should be more like her siblings. Everyone is different. I wish my ADHD had been caught (school and standardized tests, etc have always been easy for me) but it’s not as if the answer was for me to “fit in.” That’s why I said she was OK.

      2. yes – it’s called “restraint collapse,” you can google it and find tons of articles.

    4. It might be that the magic at school is that it’s more fun to misbehave at home and always will be. You can’t replicate the school magic because the magic is that other adults are to be taken seriously but parents are not.

    5. Is her behavior problematic at home? I know that as a kid I was a different person at home vs at school and now as an adult I’m very different at work vs out of work, which I think is fine. Working with her on habits, skills, behaviors that will set her up for success at both home, school, and eventually work is definitely fine, but if she’s doing fine at home but is just a better version of herself at school, I think that’s fine. Like – I was a straight A student and now am good at my job but I am a perfectionist with extreme anxiety about not excelling in those areas, where as I’m still intense but much more relaxed and happier at home.

      I went to a pretty intense private school for 14 years (totally on scholarship, my dad is a mechanic and my high school cost like 30k a year 10 years ago!) and it was a great environment for me (the anxiety/perfectionism didn’t kick in until later!) but it was a great environment because everyone was involved: sports were mandatory (no gym class), most classes weren’t tracked and were thus taught to a high level, most kids did clubs or other activities besides sports, because everyone was involved in things that meant there were activities for a very wide range of interests, it was easy to start a club if there wasn’t one that fit your interests. There were certainly “bad” kids and kids who didn’t care that much about school, but most kids were pretty high achieving. For example, I was pretty friendly with one of the biggest stoners in the school … he went on to row at an Ivy League school.

      I also really wanted to attend the Naval Academy but my parents discouraged it at the time so I didn’t even apply. Now as an adult my mom was like wow you would have loved the military and it would have been a good fit for you. So, if she does show any interest in the military don’t shut it down right away because its “dangerous”?

    6. Yeah I think you’ve posted about this before on the moms page? I actually think your older and younger kids might be more unusual if they hold it together at home as well as they do at school. It’s extremely common for kids to be much better behaved at school than home. My 4 year old is intensely spirited, bordering on explosive, at home, but has never had any issues with school and her teachers have nothing but great things to say about her. Our ped says that’s very typical.

    7. I was always like this. Some kids have basically finite resources for impulse and behavior control. I expended all of those resources at school and then was very hard to handle at home. I did have undiagnosed ADHD, which likely played into it. Not sure what or even if anything needs to be done for kids like this. I suspect having an outlet for her to (1) not have to listen/follow directions and (2) get some energy out may be helpful for all involved.

      1. What needs to happen for these kids is to have the ADHD or sensory issues or whatever is causing the restraint collapse treated. I can’t believe the people on this thread saying “oh, I had untreated ADHD and I turned out OK so kids don’t need it treated.”

        1. Restraint collapse is common in neurotypical kids too. I agree if it’s ADHD she should not ignore it, but it’s definitely possible there is no underlying issue.

    8. Honestly, she sounds like she is doing great. School is going well, she is comfortable stating her preferences about sports (good!)

      What is the “wild” behavior? Is it full blown restraint collapse? One of my kids is like that. She just needs lots of rest after school because it tires her out. I do not schedule any weekday activities for her ever. Just relaxation at home and an early bedtime.

    9. Maybe I’m misreading this, but pushing your 9 year old toward the military is INSANE to me.

      1. I also don’t see the connection from the child’s list of interests/hobbies to ‘suitable for Navy SEALS career’, most likely because I know zero about the military in general. OP, I think your daughter sounds like she has a great variety of interests, but not really any that would make me slate her for any particular career. I feel like career fit is also very behavioral, such as likes to be the center of attention, or is committed to understanding how things work on a deep level, or excels at persuading others, or is great in a team. And then there is the mission of whatever job you do. So many factors that I feel all I would encourage such a young child to do is to try out things broadly.

    10. Could she have undiagnosed autism or ADHD? Being “normal” in the required settings is exhausting.

    11. You are asking what type of private school will get her to behave at home? If she is going nuts at home because of sensory overload after having to hold it together in a loud, overcrowded, overheated public school classroom all day, maybe a calmer school environment would help. Or are you implying that you should send her to military school because it will teach her discipline?

    12. You’re right, this does sound crazy. She’s doing fine at school and you are worried because she doesn’t behave like her siblings at home.

      I also have 3 kids. They are all different. Let them be individuals. Unless she is harming her siblings I do not understand what the problem is.

    13. Oh boy. I say this gently, but let your kid be who she is. It sounds like she has a strong will and knows her own mind. This is a great thing.

    14. It me! I was a perfect angel at school and a ridiculous hellion at home, all growing up.
      I went to Stanford. It’s all fine. Your daughter will be fine!

      I don’t think any parent should pick out careers (the Navy is a career!) for their child when they are under age 10 (or 12 or 14).

      Your daughter’s doing great!

  20. Struggling with restaurant lately. Specifically, I like food that is supposed to be hot, well hot. I feel like at least 30% of the time it is lukewarm at best. What do I do other than order salads and sandwiches or be rude and send stuff back?

    1. It’s not rude to send it back if it’s not hot. However, I do clearly ask for the food to be heated and not remade. I’m quite happy for a restaurant to stick the plate under a broiler or in a microwave (which I do at home.)

    2. Honestly, I think those are your two options. I like really hot food too, but at restaurants I just deal with the fact that that is often not reality.

    3. Dining out is still a very mixed experience right now. I don’t have any good suggestions. Between the prices going way up and the food being fine but not outstanding, I’ve cut way back on going to restaurants.

      1. Same. I don’t enjoy spending so much for a meh experience (and don’t get me started on all the surcharges that are added instead of transparent pricing). I just don’t go out to eat much anymore.

        When I do, I favor a local family owned and operated cafe. I’m a lot happier when I know the money is going to a hardworking family that regularly goes above and beyond for our local community.

        1. The only restaurants still worth going to in our area are the small, locally-owned places where the owners are still pretty hands-on and are present to maintain standards in food and service. Everywhere else, it’s a total crapshoot as to whether your order will be taken in less than 30 minutes after you sit down, if it will be correct, if the food will be hot, if it will be appropriately cooked (got a near-raw chicken breast a few weeks ago and the waitperson had the nerve to be mad when we sent it back), etc.

      2. This. Restaurants have gotten more expensive and the food has gotten worse, to the point where you could easily cook better food at home and you are really just paying $$$ to avoid cooking and washing dishes. Maybe the super expensive ones are still actually good, but I wouldn’t know.

      3. Same. So many times I’ve gone to a restaurant and regretted it bc I can cook much better for much cheaper.

    4. I think this is because so many restaurants are running on seriously lean staffing numbers right now. I don’t really know what can be done about it.

    5. Order a cold appetizer and a cold dessert to minimize the risk, and suck it up when it comes to the entree. Restaurants are a treat that means you aren’t cooking but always come with trade offs.

    6. Are you eating outside? When food has to travel out of the restaurant combined with colder air, it’s going to chill faster. I haven’t had this issue but usually dine inside.

  21. Having friends over we recently met for the first time for cocktails/appetizers. I invited them over for Saturday afternoon but they mentioned that they would like to do 7 bc of sabbath, which is fine. I am not Jewish. Do I need to switch to dinner now given the new time (would prefer to stick w just drinks/apps because we have little kids and work is busy and life feels like too much right now), and should I be worried about kosher food? I guess I should just ask?

    1. 7 is a weird time for apps. I would suggest switching to either Friday before sunset or Sunday afternoon rather than trying to do happy hour at dinner time.

    3. Re: Kosher you need to ask. Many Jews observe Sabbath but don’t keep kosher, and Jews who are really strict about kosher dining requirements don’t normally eat meals at the homes of people who aren’t also Kosher. So my guess is they’re not super strict about it, but I would ask. They might also be “kosher style” which is not eating pork, shellfish or meat and dairy together, but not actually worrying about whether or not foods are certified Kosher. In that case, you probably want to serve a vegetarian meal since then you can have all the dairy you want.

      Is there any possibility of moving this to Sunday afternoon so it’s not at dinnertime and you can just do apps?

      1. +1. 7pm is definitely dinner time. I think it would be weird to have people over at that time and then only serve drinks and snacks. If you have to do Saturday, I would least order a pizza and some salad.

        1. She also asks if apps are still appropriate for dinner time. The answer is not really. If you don’t want to cook dinner, though, pizza is a perfectly fine option either by itself or as an add on to whatever OP was originally going to do.

    6. I would ask! In my experience there is such a continuum of how my many Jewish friends practice their faith… I don’t think I know any two of my friends who practice their faith and observe customs in the same way.

      I’d do heavy apps (so enough that it could be a meal) but check with them about what needs to be kosher (some of my friends require everything they eat to be kosher, some just avoid pork/shellfish/mixing meat and diary, some mix meat/dairy but don’t eat pork, some don’t observe any kosher, some only keep kosher during holy days)

      1. I think sticking to heavy apps that could be dinner is a great idea, especially if they changed the time to dinner-time and it wasn’t the original plan.

    7. just ask if they have any dietary restrictions or are kosher. there is a huge spectrum of how people observe kashrut. some people will only eat foods strictly labeled as kosher (including wine), others will eat dairy things that aren’t labeled as kosher etc. sounds like a great way to make some new friends! hope it goes well.

  22. So I’ve come to the sad realization that some friendships that I thought were ride-or-die have been pretty unfulfilling for at least the past 6 months, possibly longer. I don’t know if I have changed, or if they have, but I am not enjoying the time I spend with them and find that I’m dreading certain conversational topics. No clue how a busy person in their early 40s makes new friends because it’s hard enough to maintain existing ones, as I’m finding. I only have so much time and energy to spread around. Tell me that it’s normal to go through friendship dry spells? I’m not cutting these friends off or anything dramatic, but I have distanced myself. All our husbands are friends so no need to go scorched earth.

    1. I don’t know whether this is normal, but it’s my experience as well. My three closest friends have moved away in the past 10 years; we maintain our relationships via phone, but it isn’t the same. I have not succeeded in replacing them with other friends at that level. I now have several people who I’m happy to see for coffee every 8-10 weeks, which means I have a coffee date with a friend about once or twice a week, but I haven’t found any great friends among them. And, like you, I have some friends who were never super close but who I’m less and less interested in seeing as time passes. The friend thing is super hard as an adult. Sometimes I’m lonely even though I have a wonderful husband and parents because I miss having close female friends who live near me.

    2. I’ve had this happen. It’s not uncommon as our lives and interests change. Finding new friends after 30 is really hard. It feels almost impossible.

  23. Any advice for how to avoid checking things when you’re on a small plane? The airline allows one carry-on item, and it has to fit under the seat – there just aren’t overhead bins except in first class. They allow checked bags as normal, though, and that’s looking appealing.

    2. Typically you can bring your carry on to the gate and they’ll give you a red tag. They will take it when you board and then give it back to you at the gate when you get off the plane. No need to go to baggage claim.

    3. What kind of plane is it? I regularly fly on some very tiny regional jets, but I’ve never been on a commercial plane that only had overhead bins in first class. In fact, very small planes don’t even have a first class cabin. The bins exist throughout the whole plane, they’re just small and they fill up well before everyone has boarded the plane. This is where priority boarding comes in handy. You can get it through status, a credit card, or paying for it. If you’re flying within the next couple weeks, it’s too soon for the first two methods, so if you care about having your bag on board you pay for priority boarding. I would definitely do that. I am very anti-checked bag though, because it costs so much time at the airport.

    4. What model of plane is it? Many regional jets do have small bins in main cabin, but they’re not big enough for rollaboards. Duffels can often be squeezed to fit.

      If truly no bins, your options are usually (1) rock up with two bags and have one gate-checked, or (2) check the bag.

    5. I’m in the U.K. but Amazon and various companies here are doing a duffel bag the correct size to fit under the seat. It’s not pretty but there’s tons of people on TikTok packing for weekend trips in them and they seem to be quite spacious.(probably not if you need hair tools and multiple shoes).

    6. I’m kind of confused about this question. Your bag will need to fit in whatever space is available. If it only has space under the seats, then your bag needs to fit there. It’s unclear how long you’ll be gone to know whether it’s reasonable you might be able to pack everything in a backpack or similar. I’m not sure there’s a “trick” to avoiding checking a bag if there’s simply no space at all for a roll aboard.

    7. In this situation I usually gate-check my rollaboard instead of checking it the normal way, on the theory that it’s less likely to be lost if gate-checked.

  24. Broke things off with the man without a job, after I helped him find a retail gig. He ended up quitting his part time retail job a week later because he couldn’t handle it. He’s in his 30s with less than a year of work experience. I needed him to show me that if he couldn’t work, he could be an equal partner in other ways but it turned out that he couldn’t even do that.

    Please tell me I dodged a bullet with this one. Even job aside, my needs weren’t being met in the relationship and I was carrying us both emotionally and financially. I am so angry for giving him so many chances to change.

    1. You dodged a major bullet! Good for you. I know it’s tough but take yourself on some fun dates this week and get on the dating apps asap if that’s your thing.

      Also, point of reference, my SO makes a lot less than me but can cook, clean, take out the garbage etc. He is an equal partner and it just sounds like this guy isn’t even an adult.

    2. You were more than fair. Good work cutting your losses on a dude who will never meet your needs.

    3. You dodged a bullet. I’m sorry; these things are hard. Go indulge yourself a little bit.

    4. Yes you dodged a bullet. He is not a keeper, and you deserve so very much more than this. Put aside any notions of sunk cost fallacy and focus on how much easier and more pleasant your life is without someone dragging you down.

    5. Obviously you dodged a bullet and for your next move, respect yourself more. You deserve much more than that.

    6. You dodged a major bullet! I’m married to someone who’s struggled with full-time employment. But he’s managed to hold a few jobs for longer than a year. Now he’s a SAHD to our special needs child, and he’s an amazing father, an equal partner at home, and supportive emotionally. Also, the work he does would cost a small fortune to outsource.

    7. You dodged a bullet obviously but also please do some real work on why you think you should be putting up with someone who doesn’t pull their weight in literally any aspect of a relationship. You deserve more but you have to believe that.

      2. 100,000x this. I have seen a lot of people do the most in relationships; never have I ever seen someone who had to get their partner a *part-time retail* job. Which he then “couldn’t handle” and quit. OP, this guy will be someone’s burden to bear for the rest of his life. He does not have to be YOUR burden to bear. Put a higher price on your time, your love and your energy and get some therapy to figure out why you got past date #2 with this guy, who was not deserving of you on any level.

    8. This guy was not even meeting the bare minimum.

      Next time, only continue a dating a guy who meets your needs. Not a guy who could possibly one day meet them. He has got to meet them right off the bat.

    9. He isn’t the man you want him to be and you’re in love with the man you want him to be.

    10. Recognize that your anger is at yourself, for allowing this situation to persist when it was not meeting your needs. For me, acknowledging this is the first step so that I can forgive myself, with the clear eyed understanding of what I have learned and how I will need to approach situations differently to avoid the same mistakes.

    11. Whenever you feel that anger, remind yourself that you deserve better. Revel in the fact that you love yourself enough to not settle for a completely unequal partner. You deserve it! Redirect your thinking everytime the anger creeps back. It will take practice but it is worth it.

    12. I’m sorry you’re angry with yourself; I think we’ve all made dubious relationship choices while in the early stages. It’s so easy to get swept up in chemistry that it can be hard to see reality. This guy is who he is (also, were you dating my brother? He’s managed to nap a few wonderful, smart women until they figure out his number, unfortunately…)

    14. The fact that it is not abundantly clear to you based on the first para that you are light years better off without him is eye opening. That’s some seriously low self esteem.

      He loves kids and wants to be a SAHD? Great! Work as a nanny or childcare provider until you have kids. This guy is too lazy for that.

      Want to be a stay at home dog dad? Get a job as a dog trainer or dog walker. This guy is too lazy for that.

      Work any job so you don’t become homeless. This guy is too lazy for that.

      His life ambition is literally to find a partner who will pay the bills while he hangs around the house. Literally everyone is better off without this guy.

    16. “He’s in his 30’s with less than a year of work experience.” I can’t even fathom that…you definitely dodged a bullet.

  25. I’ve been maxing out my 401k but it hasn’t gone up in awhile! I feel silly putting in all this money and not having it go anywhere. I mean if it is valued at $X and after contributing for 6 months, the value is still $X. Should I stay the course or pocket some money?

    1. well of course it hasn’t gone anywhere this year, the market is in the toilet! keep contributing.

      1. I feel so silly continuing to contribute every month and not seeing any increase! But I know common wisdom is to stay the course. It’s just hard especially with inflation, etc.

        1. It is hard, but think of it like this, when the market is down, shares are on sale and it’s time to buy.

    2. This is the nature of the market. If you’re more than 5-10 years from retirement, you should keep contributing and not even check the balance.

    3. This is exactly when you should be putting more money in, not when it’s way up. Buy low, sell high is how you get rich, not the other way around.

      2. Yes, that’s what I’ve been doing, maxing it out. Just frustrating and wondering if im doing the wrong thing.

    4. Whatever money you put into your 401(k) this year was subject to the stock market tanking. Let’s say you had $100k in there in January, then contributed $20k throughout the year, so there should be $120k in there at least, right? No, because at the same time, the value of stocks declined, let’s say by ~16%, so the $120k are now only worth $100k. Your portfolio value remains $100k. What you put into the 401(k) was eaten up by the decline on the stock market.

      That being said, 401(k) is, for most people, a long-term retirement investment vehicle. As the stock market recovers eventually, you will realize gains.

      Now, if you are 2 years away from retirement, that’s a different story and you’d probably be better off choosing a different investment vehicle (bonds maybe…).

    5. Yes – stay the course.

      Remember, your time horizon is not 6 months….. it is likely decades. Retirement.

      Go into one of those retirement calculators and put in the amount in your 401k now and see what it will likely grow to by the time you retire. Hopefully that will reassure you enough that you can continue to contribute.

    6. Maybe see if your plan administrator shows you how many shares you have, not just the total value, and focus on that number. You are buying them on sale and when the market goes up again (as it eventually will), the value will skyrocket quickly. There was a year recently when my portfolio went from 250k to 370k while I contributed about 20k. At the time I felt like you but in reverse — why am I even contributing when market growth is outpacing my contributions by so much? But you just have to ride it all out and not let it get to your head, good and bad.

    7. You are buying stocks on sale. Put in more now, not less, and stop monitoring its value if doing so gets you all wound up.

    8. It’s so hard – my portfolio is down like 20%, a solid six-figure decline, and my retirement is way down as well. This is the time to remind yourself (as my dad would say) that stocks are on sale, this is the time to buy and even increase your purchases if you are able. I hope that in 4-5 years it will have recovered nicely and I’ll be grateful to 2022-me.

      It’s also a good reminder that returns aren’t guaranteed, and why you should slowly decrease your stock percentage as you get closer to retirement.

    9. OP here- thank you all for the encouragement to stay the course! So difficult but I know it’s the right thing to do…while I day dream about saving for a down payment ugh.

    10. Repeat after me: “It’s only down if you have to sell.” You are in it for the long haul, so short term losses aren’t relevant. Stay the course.

    11. Since you are not going to need this money for several years yet, stop looking at the value. If you have to look at something, track the number of shares you own.

  26. I live just outside of NYC and my company basically shuts down from Christmas to New Years. No one else in my life has those days off so I’d consider going to one of those hotel spa resorts for a night or two alone. Anyone know of any that are close by (2 hour drive) and not outrageously expensive that week? Or should I just accept the fact that it will always be a stay-cation unless I want to spend a ton?

    1. I’m in the same boat, and have the added bonus of having a kid whose school break is essentially that week only. I can confirm that most of the world is insanely expensive that week. We are paying $12k this year for a Caribbean resort that would be less than half that much if we could travel two weeks earlier…it’s extremely frustrating. If you only want to go for one or two nights and don’t care about celebrating Christmas, Christmas Eve or Christmas Day might be comparatively cheaper, since most people celebrate Christmas and are with family on those days.

      1. If I had kids I would definitely stay home and do fun things in the city like go to the museums and shows. Not having kids, living with my SO but not married and really no responsibilities so not traveling seems silly….but I’m also not rich at all! Ugh. At least we are going on a Caribbean vacation a few weeks before the holidays.

    2. Isn’t there some fancy place in Vermont or upstate NY, starts with an M? Montcler or something like that? I have no idea how far it is from you or how expensive.

      Or could you pick a fun little town in the Hudson Valley, stay in a nice hotel, and go to antique shops and whatnot?

      This is probably petty useless advice because I’m not all that familiar with that area.

    3. The Lodge at Woodloch could work. Not sure about pricing though, I think it has gotten pretty expensive over the years.

    4. there’s a canyon ranch in the berkshires that might not be too far. maybe sojo spa in edgewater if you want a korean spa?

    5. You can check escape brooklyn that site should have an overview of all upstate hotel options – a lot of new places have opened in the last 2 years.

      Piaule and Inness come to mind but might be pricey still

      1. Troutbeck looks available. $500 a night seems good for that time of the year.

    6. What’s outrageously expensive? The Buttermilk Inn has rooms (not sure about suites), and spa services available.

    7. It’s not fancy but I like Kripalu. You could also structure a staycation around an interest like films or exploring restaurants in Queens or bookstores, and program a couple of days.

    1. I would not wear this dress. With booties and tights or with other shoes and accessories, I would not wear this dress.

      1. I would not wear it on a train, I would not wear it on a plane. I would not wear it with suede pumps, I would not wear it to the dump. I would not wear it with fleece tights, I would not wear it out at night. I would not wear it here or there, I would not wear it anywhere.

        1. I would not wear this ugly dress. I would not wear it under stress. I would not wear it with fleece tights, I would not wear it days or nights…

          (Actually I like it but I can’t resist a good Dr. Seuss takeoff!)

    2. I think wrap dresses can look dated so I’d pair it with booties that are more current. Maybe something like the Franco Sarto “Stevie” bootie- mid calf height, square toe. Make sure you don’t have a side part or statement necklace (I joke…)

      1. Sadly I think tights + booties will date this dress even more. The combination of the wrap style, collar, and print put it pretty much beyond help.

  28. I fully understand that this is going to sound weird and petty, but I am hoping I’m not alone in finding it annoying.

    I feel like I have a very different approach to texting than some friends. I never know how to handle it.

    Example 1: One friend seems to want to text all day about mundane things and almost use the text thread as a way to work out her anxieties. I try to offer constructive solutions but she never wants the advice; it’s more like she just likes processing things “out loud” (over text) and is always a frenzy of emotional activity. I find it kind of exhausting, but I also like her and if this is how she chooses to connect I don’t want to totally ignore her.

    Example 2: Another friend has a very erratic approach to texting while I am more linear. Like if she starts a conversation, I will respond, comment on it, etc. But sometimes I will text her something and she will just totally ignore it for a while and then come back a week or two later with a completely different thought and never acknowledge my last text. I find it so weird, like, can’t you see my last comment or question? It’s right there in the thread. When she does this, I get annoyed because it feels like the conversations only get to happen on her terms and when she feels like it, but my contributions can be totally ignored.

    Help! Any advice on how to handle?

    2. So, I was/still can be like your friend in Example 2. My thinking is usually I just don’t have anything additional to comment on it or respond to that text, so I wouldn’t. An ex called me out on it and mentioned how much it bothered him, so now even if I don’t necessarily have something to add, I’ll use the tapback function on iMessage to acknowledge that I’ve seen it. Can you mention to them that it’s bothersome when they don’t even acknowledge and even a tapback would alleviate that annoyance?

  29. Do you think there’s anything wrong with or bad about spending and wanting to spend almost all your time alone? Like I mean is it somehow bad for you long term, in a mental health way?

    Not partnered up in years, small family and few friends. In the last 2 or so years, both friends and family have gotten more dramatic. If I’m being honest, they always were dramatic but now it’s a lot more short tempered, critical, and frankly mean. It’s like they’re looking for a reason to criticize anyone and if I’m around, well then they criticize me on everything from me being too covid cautious to not having a nice refrigerator. And FWIW my fridge is perfectly fine and I’ve never judged a friendship based on whether they did or did not have a subzero. Just to give you an idea of what it’s like. It’s to the point where I get home, I’m relieved to be at home alone without anyone screeching or criticizing. But then if I’m honest I do feel guilt – pre pandemic I was an extroverted introvert, I liked being with people at least for a few hours here and there, I worked in an office and was friendly with coworkers. Like I feel like how can it not be bad long term to just be home alone all day, all night? But if people are going to be mean and yell, well I’d rather be alone. Sadly I have zero inclination right now to make new friends or go to events, so I spend a lot of time reading and watching TV.

    1. My MIL is like this. Retired. Friends have died or moved away. She is a widow. I think at this point, she enjoys what she enjoys and after raising kids and taking care of her mother and MIL when they were old/dying, she can just do what pleases her. It’s not like she’s out on the corner selling drugs or shooting at people. She is just a happy and content homebody and no longer feels OK driving long distances, in traffic, or at night.

      1. Cosign, except it’s my mom. Her life is focused on criticizing everyone around you and never being happy with anything outside her home, and as a result I’ve basically dropped the rope in the relationship.

        I do think many people have a lower tolerance for others since the pandemic, I know I do. I moved to a new state last year and really made an effort to get out and meet people despite being an introvert. It’s paid off and I’ve found new friends who fill my cup in different ways. To give an example, in Chicago I’d met most of my friends through work or business school so we were all on similar career trajectories with similar incomes, and thus similar perspectives and sometimes limited view of how the other half lives. My friends in NC are much more diverse – there are some people I like at work, but I also cherish my hiking and book club friends who are of different ages, life stages, and live in all sorts of houses.

      2. Cosign, except it’s my mom. Her life is focused on criticizing everyone around you and never being happy with anything outside her home, and as a result I’ve basically dropped the rope in the relationship.

        I do think many people have a lower tolerance for others since the pandemic, I know I do. I moved to a new state last year and really made an effort to get out and meet people despite being an introvert. It’s paid off and I’ve found new friends who fill my cup in different ways. To give an example, in Chicago I’d met most of my friends through work or business school so we were all on similar career trajectories with similar incomes, and thus similar perspectives and sometimes limited view of how the other half lives. My friends in NC are much more diverse – there are some people I like at work, but I also cherish my hiking and book club friends who are of different ages, life stages, and live in all sorts of houses.

    2. Your issue is that your friends and family all seem to suck! Literally no one yells at me. Of course, you would rather read a good book.

      Long term, it would be good for you to start spending time with decent people. Even something like a writing class or regular yoga class or whatever. You don’t have to become any one’s BFF, but spending time with normal people will help you recalibrate your social meter.

      1. Yeah I agree! You should look forward to spending time with people that you choose to be around, and they should make you feel better, not worse. Obviously, coworkers, family, etc. are people we do not choose, and if they are difficult and draining, it makes sense to limit exposure. This seems very normal to me. However, if you find yourself very cut off from others and isolated in general, I would explore that further.

    3. So I wonder about this too, because this is probably my dream life (I’m a strong introvert bordering on misanthrope). but then everything I read says that loneliness is as bad for you as smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. I personally get my social cup filled by just a few conversations with a handful of close friends every few weeks (I have no friends in my current city). That said – maybe you need to seek out friends who are less dramatic? It sounds like it’s not that you dislike being around people per se, it’s just that the ones in your life are too much drama for you.

    4. I go through periods like this. When I’m alone I gravitate toward sedentary activities and hobbies. I try to balance the lack of social interaction with something active and at least moderately social, like walking around a park or taking a yoga class. Social grace is like a muscle, if you don’t use it then it weakens.

    5. This was me for almost a decade. it wasn’t that I didn’t like people, it was just that I didn’t have people. About 5 years ago I had a job change that was a bit of a schedule shakeup (more free time during evening hours) that led to a bit of a mental shakeup and I wanted to be with people and out. I started seeking out people who wanted to do things I like, mostly turning acquaintances into friends, but also started eating dinner out by myself regularly. I am very comfortable talking to strangers so this gives me a lot of human interaction and ultimately some friendships. That change has made a big difference in my life and while I was okay those years I was alone, I also kind of feel like I lost a lot of years with nothing to mark the time. Maybe the answer isn’t for you to be alone but rather to seek out new people.

    6. I feel like this since COVID as well. Some people are just exhausting. I’ve picked up some new fun friendships since, so I default to being with them more, and less with previous (more exhausting) friend groups.

  30. Can you help me with words?

    My department has a junior employee who has never worked in a professional office like ours (clerical work, yes, but only in blue-collar companies). When we hired her the position had been open for quite some time. It has always been painful to fill that role because it takes some amount of specialized knowledge but really has no growth potential. It needs to be done and most people use this role as a step up to their next role. She truly seems to like the role and expresses her desire to stay in it long term.

    She is capable and competent at the actual job duties but comporting with softer behavioral norms of a professional office are a struggle. She will change if directly told to do so but unless we lay it out like she is Amelia Bedelia, she does not seem capable of extrapolating one specific piece of advice or instruction beyond the immediate scenario. I really think it is an inability to see the bigger picture, because when we discuss small expectations she does take them to heart, although they have to be very specific or she can’t seem to grasp them. For instance, we can tell her that barreling at a run away from the conference table to beat everyone else out the door needs to stop, so instead she throws elbows and speed walks like an 80’s mall-mom. Or when told that yelling loudly across the cubicles when she sees a friend is disruptive to people around her, so instead she stage whispers. If we tell her she needs to walk at a normal pace in the office unless there is an emergency, she breaks down in a panic that we don’t have a list of what constitutes an emergency and instead stays seated at the conference table until everyone else has cleared the room. If we tell her to be more considerate of others with her volume when socializing, she stops talking altogether and gestures for people to follow her to a room with a door that she can shut before she will say anything.

    For context, she is a middle-aged woman who has lived in the area most of her life. There is not a language barrier, there is no accommodation need that she has disclosed, she seems to live and function just fine within the overall local culture. I don’t know how to say this without sounding snobby and judgmental, but it seems like she is so tied to what was acceptable in her blue collar background that she is unable learn how to codeswitch long enough to get through a day at our white collar office without making a fool of herself and irritating everyone around her. Any advice for how to articulate this for her?

    1. I don’t think it’s a class thing at all. People of all social classes and backgrounds are capable of distinguishing between different environments and matching their behavior to what they observe around them. It sounds like social ineptitude or some type of disability.

      1. Yeah, I don’t see how not knowing what is an emergency or keeping your voice down is a blue-collar issue. Unfortunately, I don’t have another idea, but I think you are fixating on this aspect and it may prevent you from seeing what is going on.
        As to the question of what is an emergency, it seems you could have a discussion with her. What emergency scenarios can she think of? The list probably isn’t super long.
        But also, is it just weird that she sprints out the door or is it A Problem? If she continued to do a good job with tasks but also sprint out of the conference room, could she stay in her job forever but it would hold back advancement?

        1. Those are just a couple of examples. Overall, no one thing is a make or break behavior although taken together it is all A Problem. For instance, when she sprints out of the conference room clients notice it and think there is cause for alarm, or people in the hallway get run over in here mad dash to win the race.

          Perhaps the class angle is wrong. I’m basing it on previous conversations where, when asked why she does behavior xyz, she says that’s always how she acted in previous workplaces (think manufacturing facility offices) because everyone there acted that way, too.

          2. I think she’s telling you – SHE always behaved that way and no one said anything to her at those other places? I don’t trust the accuracy of – oh everyone was like that at my last job. I can assure you no one is running in a manufacturing facility unless there is a fire. Like that is behavior that is actively discouraged as there is too much risk of harming yourself or harming equipment.

            She sounds socially awkward. Reality is if she’s middle aged, she’s not changing. This isn’t like an Aspergers little kid that you can give step by step instructions to regarding social interaction and have them practice. Your choices are to put up with it or relieve her of her duties. Frankly I couldn’t put up with it, but that’s just me.

      1. Yep, diagnosed or not, autism sounds right. Rules work but nothing outside of the new rule. You said no yelling, so she stage whispers, which is not yelling so she did what she was told. If you want to keep her, you’ll need to be very direct and very clear in every single way every single time. Or create blanket rules (no talking to anyone from 1-2pm) rather than specific (no yelling) when anything other than that one thing will be assumed allowed.

        Price of admission!

      2. Yes, I’m not diagnosing a stranger over the internet but sounds like ND behavior especially regarding not getting context and needing super explicit examples and directions.

        Honestly most of this is weird yes but pretty harmless and kind of amusing, unless I’m missing something?

    3. Well….. just reading your post, I think you may be coming off as snobby and judgmental even if you don’t mean to. Basically, you post reads like she is fine for “those people” but she doesn’t know how to behave around “us”. You also say she functions in general society just basically doesn’t “fit in” with this crowd. A lot of these read to me as small, nit-picky items that don’t constitute a big reaction. She walks too fast in the office? She is too loud? But lets put more context into these. Did she walk so fast she barreled down a client? Is she speaking loudly when clients are around? Is she screaming at others on the phone in earshot of outside people? Other than the judgmental wrath of those she supports, what are the consequences of this? Obviously, if this affects clients, it is truly a bigger issue. Secondly, you’ve already said this job is hard to fill. Maybe just take some of the eclectic traits and roll with it? Let her be Susie the kicka$$ office clerk who may sprint a 5K to leave the conference room.

      2. In answer to all of your questions, yes. She has run into people in her rush to get out of meetings. She has knocked coffee mugs out of hands and knocked over chairs while zipping away from the table. She yells at others in front of clients and interrupts phone calls with her “outside” voice. She disrupts what was a pleasant and collegial environment with odd, frantic behavior and loud exclamations that have people frequently dropping what they are doing and running to see if someone is injured or the building is on fire. If she were truly kick-a at her role this might be excusable, but she’s just not all that. She does a needed job and we want to keep her if possible, but the real kick-a’s around her are starting to complain that they dread being around her because her behavior is so atypical and distracting.

        I am trying to figure out if there is a way I can address the bigger pattern of anti-professional behavior that will get through to her. It seems like she just doesn’t comprehend when I tell her she needs to be more mindful of not running in the building, not knocking into people in order to get where she is going, treating others with respect by moving at a more moderate pace or speaking at a lower volume on the office. She wants specific checklists of what to do or not do, and then gets sidetracked into questions about weird “what if” scenarios. It’s like I need to send her on a crash course in entry-level office norms or something.

        The kicker: when the key stakeholders are present she does none of this. She suddenly knows how to behave and blends in seamlessly without external coaching. It’s during the daily grind that she cannot seem to hold it together.

        1. “Jane, you know how you keep it together when the key stakeholders are around? Do that. All the time. I’m not able to be more specific than that. And if you can’t manage that, then we need to talk about what the next steps will be.”

    4. This brings back memories of the time I got dinged on a performance review for “walking too quickly in the office and making people uncomfortable.” I was speed-walking to the bathroom to throw up because I was pregnant and had hyperemesis. Tread carefully here.

    5. Huh? I temped at a “blue-collar company” once and nobody was yelling across the office or shoving people out of the way on the way out of the conference room.

    6. I’m gonna tell a story… before I knew I was autistic I worked as a clerk for a blue collar company, which really meant I was the organizational brains for the company, every process had gone through me. I also did a lot of typically autistic things, like cross my legs when I sit, use headphones to focus, and even occasionally fidgeting. My boss spent years telling me that sitting cross legged, and all my other autistic traits, were unprofessional. When I left I felt very unwelcome, and tbh I think my boss was gleeful at the thought of being able to hire someone ‘normal’, well normal doesn’t have the organizational and processing capacity my brain does and my boss still asks me if I will come back.

    7. This hits home for me. I supervise a woman with at least 10 years of work experience who is disruptive in a standard corporate office, needs to be told explicitly what to do and not do, and struggles with applying the feedback to new situations. I am at the point where people have told me they don’t want to sit near her because she wont stop talking to them, tells overly personal stories, and makes comments on their phone calls while listening to only half of the conversation. The specific behaviors are different, but I am at my wits end because multiple people have given her specific feedback, there is always an excuse why this one time was a different circumstance, and it is impacting our broader coworkers. Oh and HR isn’t backing me up. Good luck.

  31. I unexpectedly have the week of Thanksgiving off and would like to go on a 3-day hiking trip. REI trips during this time are all booked. Can anyone recommend companies like REI that have hiking trips during this time? Thanks!

  32. The military is certainly not for everyone but I am constantly surprised by friends/acquaintances in my super liberal, oh-so-tolerant, blue little town who get crabby at me for speaking positively about a kid joining the military. Is it for everyone? No. Is it a great option for some people? Yes.

    FWIW, if my kid wanted to join the armed services, I’d probably push hard for ROTC, but other than that, I think it can be a good choice.

    1. If this is about the poster with the 9 year old above, I think it’s how it’s framed matters. Supporting a 16 year old who wants to join the military is different than pushing a young elementary schooler towards it just because they have restraint collapse meltdowns after school (which is extremely normal). I was just like OP’s kid and I think the military would have been terrible for me. In fact, I think most kids who struggle with restraint collapse are highly sensitive, and I don’t think the military is a good fit for most highly sensitive people.

      1. Spot-on. That OP thinks the military will instill discipline, but it will actually destroy that kind of kid. I thought she was really asking whether military school would improve her child’s behavior at home, which it probably won’t.

    2. A military career can be a good choice for the right person. However, even if the military were a good fit for my child, I would strongly discourage them from entering the military at this point in history given the risk of authoritarianism.

    3. Is your blue little town a wealthier little town? In my experience (in a military family), the biggest divide when it comes to attitude toward the military is class – most service members come from low to middle income backgrounds, and wealthier people regardless of politics are less likely to have many (or any) veterans or active service members in their lives, other than Vietnam-era draftees. In a red town, you may get less discomfort because of a greater tendency to view military service as a patriotic choice, but I suspect that parents in my (extremely wealthy but quite red) zip code would similarly not be happy about a kid joining the service unless it was via USMA, USNA, etc.

      1. Yup. My son enlisted in the USMC out of college and there is only one other couple in my let’s say mostly-top-10%-plus-income social circle who has children who served (we are blue, I’d say they lean red but not sure). And that includes the red people. Also probably half or less of those who were of draft age actually served in the Vietnam era (including my husband).

      2. Yeah, it’s a pretty well-off place, and I hear that stuff mostly from very lefty white well-off liberals. It’s just surprising to me as someone who grew up in a pretty conservative, lower middle class white area where people weren’t at all bothered by someone’s kid joining the army.

        1. I grew up in a mostly white, upper middle class town where going to college was expected. My view of the military is the the majority of the people enlist because they have no way of paying for college and it’s a means to an end or they come from a family where all the men serve and they are just following tradition. I know there are also some that truly want to serve and protect their country but that has not been my impression. So it’s not that shocking to me that upper middle class families will be surprised that children from well off families with no military ties will enlist. However, I would never express my negative feelings if a friend told me their child was enlisting and was happy about it. I’d still keep my mouth shut to them.

      3. Yeah, it’s pretty well-off, especially the white people. I grew up in a very white exurb where the most well-off folks were small-time real estate developers or general contractors, not tech gazillionaires.

    4. I agree that it is a more nuanced issue than good/bad. I do feel like folks need to enlist with their eyes open, however, and many kids have a limited view of military life and the long-term in general.

      1. Also, my experience colors my opinions about how the military recruits – in my majority-low-income high school, there was significant military recruiting with flashy vehicles etc., and I know other schools in wealthier areas are not targeted in the same way.

        1. Question if you don’t mind answering:

          Did your high school have a JROTC program? One of the arguments against having JROTC at our district’s high school is that it would be inequitable since the military recruits are overwhelmingly poor and BIPOC.

          The military recruiters do come on campus to talk to students about enlisting, so I don’t really get the logic, but that wouldn’t be the first time I didn’t understand what our admin was doing.

          1. Is your district rich? If so, they should be encouraging military recruiting if they are worried about disparities.

          2. It’s a well-off area, but we get the same (crappy) state funding as every other public school in our dumb state. We do have significant community/PTA/booster support, which is great but doesn’t fill all the gaps.

            Maybe having a JROTC program would be more persuasive for kids who wanted to join the military than some intermittent recruiters, but isn’t (part) of the point of ROTCs that you come in as an officer? The military is pretty diverse but the officers, not so much.

          3. To answer your question, yes, we had ROTC. I had no problem with that program – it was a positive organization in my majority-minority, majority free lunch, urban high school. The reality is that any random sample of kids at my school would be, by default, poor and BIPOC. But what is clear to me now as an adult is that bringing out Army-branded Hummers, free stuff, etc. to schools to make the military look “cool” for recruiting is unethical, in my opinion. Graduated in 2009, for context.

        2. Yup, as a former high school teacher, there were weekly visits from recruiters at the blue collar high school I taught at and none at the wealthy school (which was in a community that leaned red pre-Trump). I don’t think either school had ROTC, but it is common in poorer schools and nonexistent in wealthier ones to my knowledge.

          1. Our high school doesn’t even participate in the federal free lunch program because virtually no students qualify, but it still has JRTOC. It’s in a purple suburb with strong pockets of red.

          2. Chiming in late to say that my rural high school had recruiters in very frequently and we all took the ASFAB our freshman year. My brother and I did well enough that we’d get recruiters calling our house. My wife, who went to a much more affluent school, never saw a recruiter and never took the ASFAB.
            I understand the military can be a great career for some people. I also understand that a lot of kids are mortgaging their brains and bodies for a chance to go to college.

          3. We all had to take the ASFAB my senior year, and I got a call from the recruiter. He was very nice when I explained I’d already decided on my college instead of enlisting. Didn’t even try to push ROTC.

    5. My nephew did two terms in the Marines and it was exactly what he needed. He did not excel in school but he excelled in the Marines, and he needed to know he was good at something so it was absolutely great for his sense of self esteem. He got promoted ahead of his peers, an experience he never had in school.

      The other side of that coin is that he got busted for doing something he shouldn’t have done (“borrowing” someone else’s stuff without permission, which the Marines rightly looked upon as theft) and he got demoted and punished for it. This was also important because he had always found a way to get away with things pre-military. Having consequences was also a really important component of what the military did for him.

      He’s out of the service now, married, and a really responsible young man. I’m grateful this was an option for him because he was on his way to being well and truly lost post-high school.

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