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Updated: Jun 2, 2021 365 Comments · by

Thursday’s Workwear Report: Floral Print Puff-Sleeve Blouse

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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How pretty is this blouse from Vince Camuto?

After 14 months of staring at myself on Zoom, I’m feeling like my collection of tops could use a refresh. This would be a great option for tucking into some ankle pants for a more business casual outfit, or paired with a navy suit for a more formal day.

The top is $79 at Nordstrom and comes in sizes XXS–L.

Vince Camuto also has an option in sizes 1X–3X that's $84 at Nordstrom.

Sales of note for 9.16.24

Sales of note for 9.16.24

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Anonymous

    Is there a constructive and also polite way I can word my emails to avoid this problem? Someone will ask a non-urgent question (over email/text) and I’ll send them ~3 proposed dates and times for a call, anywhere from a couple of days to a week out, depending on my schedule. They don’t respond to set up anything, so I figure they didn’t need to talk or maybe the issue resolved itself. I proceed to fill up those blocks; I never promise to hold them open. Then the person will call me at one of the time slots and get upset that I’m no longer available. I’m a biglaw partner, I have this problem most often with people who are not in biglaw, typically a charity or my HOA or various neighborhood groups. I suppose I could specify, “Please let my know which time works for you so we can get it on the calendar – my calendar fills up quickly!” but that feels a little rude? Infantilizing? What I DON’T want to do is make it my job to chase them down to find a time for us to talk. I have enough things to follow up about, I’m not going to add “my neighbor wants to know if I’m also bothered that the Smiths painted their door purple” to my list. These are the kind of things that I don’t really care about the specific issue, but I care about being friendly and engaged in my community so I want to be nice to these people. Thanks all!

    • Cb

      I think that would be totally fine as a sentence. You might also experiment with office hours? Dumping all those things into a folder and deal with them in one go, once a week?

    • Anonymous

      “Happy to discuss, how’s Thursday at 10?” Then hold Thursday at 10, and if they don’t call you’ve given yourself the gift of that time.

      • Bonnie Kate

        +1 This is my favorite solution.

        If you really want to offer them options, your sentence is really totally fine and not at all rude. But I think for non-clients, giving them three options is not at all necessary.

      • Anonymous

        YMMV, but I don’t like this approach because if I have a meeting on my calendar at 10, I’m less productive from 9:30 on. I’d go with “here are times, let me know if one of them works for you” and if they get upset later, “when I didn’t hear back from you, I assumed you no longer wanted to meet.”

    • NYNY

      If a call is the right way to handle the question, then it’s appropriate for you to make it clear that you need to schedule a call, and your script is fine for that. Honestly, I might only offer one option, both so it’s on them to propose alternatives and to highlight that I don’t have a lot of availability. But I would also push back on setting up a call for anything I could answer in a text or email. Your time is precious, so you need to protect it!

    • Cat

      Either do as proposed, or I offer only 1 slot at a time and then put a half-hour hold on my calendar. Worst case is you get a minute to catch up on something.

        • Anonymous

          She said she is a big law partner. If she is not leveraging the resources available to her, she should be.

        • Anonanonanon

          In my BigLaw firm, we are moving steadily away from using assistants for this purpose. Not a fan myself of that shift but seems to be the case for a few firms. For example, we have a pool of assistants, no assigned assistant that can get comfortable with your work and schedule. End result is I typically handle my own calendar.

      • Cornellian

        Also it sounds like her complaint is about civic organizations, HOAs, etc. I don’t necessarily think it’s appropriate for admin staff to be handling personal stuff.

      • OP

        It’s not an appropriate use of her time to manage appointments that are more personal in nature. It also isn’t a very good use of my time – just because I have a block of time free on Thursday afternoon doesn’t mean I want to schedule a call about the purple door on that day. My assistant is great but she isn’t a mind reader, she doesn’t know when I’m going to be in a frame of mind to explain that the purple door is not in fact a sign of the apocalypse and I think the neighbors should let this one go, and if they want to go to the HOA that’s certainly up to them but no I will not be their spokesperson on this one.

        • Anonymous

          If this is not work related and not related to the health and welfare of you and your family, who cares if they get upset (and even then some of it is too bad, so sad)? It’s not your job to manage their emotions about your availability when they suck at scheduling meetings.

    • Anonymous

      If they aren’t responding to your suggested times, is it maybe because they expect you to text/email a response and don’t think the issue warrants a phone call?

    • MagicUnicorn

      “I am currently available during these times. My schedule tends to fill quickly, so let me know if one of them works for you and I will block it on my calendar.”

    • Anon

      Happy to chat, please call me at X time. Or just respond via email. Don’t give options.

    • Anon

      Your proposed sentence is fine, but what I often do is send a calendar invite for the time that works for me & a note to propose an alternative if it doesn’t work. My wording is in the invite, “got your email to talk about X, how about at this time?”

      • Cornellian

        Yes, this. Then if they don’t accept the invite or propose an alternate it’s hard for them to argue it’s your fault.

      • Anonymous

        This is what I do (small state govt) and I’m astounded that it’s not more common.

        “If the calendar invite availability does not suit your schedule, please reply with an alternate time. I have availability next Tuesday at 10am, Wednesday at 3pm or Thursday at 11am. Please note the time is not blocked in my calendar until you have accepted the calendar invite.

    • Anon

      Think of how a kind, male BigLaw partner would handle this and do the same. I’ve worked with people matching that description on various charity-type events and they usually just set something up and have me say if it doesn’t work for me. One date, one time, option for me to propose alternatives.

    • anonnnn

      You’re nicer than I am. I include something along the lines of, please confirm the date/time that works for you so that I can ensure my availability. If they don’t, I’m not available.

    • Vicky Austin

      Why not offer 1 time that works for you, then call them yourself whether they respond or not?

      • Anonymous

        Or ask them to propose some times that work for them?

        This is so odd; I have never had this problem, and I work at a charity. I would never assume a meeting was set just because someone had offered me options.

  2. NYNY

    Any ideas where I can shop for a memorial service dress? My mother died early in the pandemic, and the family agreed that we didn’t want to hold a service until people could come together in person to celebrate her life, so we’ve scheduled it for early August. The service will be in New Mexico, and a portion will be outdoors, so I’m looking for something simple and black, natural fiber, knee to midi length. No real budget here, I’m willing to spend for the right dress.

    I feel like I’ve lost my shopping skills, because I’m not sure where to look. I did try a linen dress from J. Crew, but the top of it doesn’t work on me at all without major alterations. Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated.

  3. Anon

    Does anyone have a rec for an outdoor lounge chair under $200? It needs to hold up to 250lbs and withstand small children. Ideally something easy to store for winter too.

  4. Anonymous

    If you’ve bought a fridge in the last 10-15 years, how long has it lasted for you? When do you know if it’s worth it to spend $300-$500 to repair a broken fridge versus just buying a new one for ~$1500?

    • Anon

      How old is it? If it is 10 years old or more it may not be as efficient as newer models with updated technology. Depending on which new fridge you choose, $300-$500 may be half the price. Not worth repairing then – put the $$ towards new fridge.

    • Curious

      We did the repair and then ended up buying the new fridge 4 weeks later. If it’s an electrical issue (in our case, the first repair was to the control panel), I’d just cut your losses.

    • Anon

      They last about 10-15 years. My advice though is measure your space to make this decision. My original refrigerator post a kitchen reno was sized to fit exactly in the cabinet space so it would look all nice. Turns out refrigerators didn’t stay a “standard size” the way ovens and dishwashers did. So, I let my OG one die (heard noises and knew it was in its last legs) thinking “eh, it will conk out but I don’t want to spend money repairing it because I’d like a new one.” Famous last thoughts. My space was a quarter inch too small for all new refrigerators and it took forever to find one that just fits he space. I was thisclose to having to renovate part of the kitchen to fit a refrigerator. So, two things, if you’ve got a tight fit, measure very carefully to see if a new one is an easy option, and if you renovate never put a refrigerator into cabinetry.

      • MagicUnicorn

        This. Our fridge isn’t in cabinetry, but is in a corner nook between a partial wall and a doorway. The original fridge was a normal size for its era (1980s) and fit just fine, but it was a bear to find a modern replacement that was not so wide as to stick out into the doorway.

    • Anonymous

      What part would you be repairing? My husband told me the newer, more energy efficient fridges do not last as long as the condensers switch on and off all the time. It saves energy but wears out the condenser, which is very expensive to replace. We just replaced one that was maybe 8-10 years old?

    • Anon

      We had a Frigidaire that lasted 15 years and then started having issues with temperature control, especially in the freezer. The repairperson who looked at it said if he could get the part, which was not assured as the model had been out of production for some years, it would be $500 to fix, and he recommended I just get a new refrigerator. I figured he’d seen enough of these problems to know what he was talking about.

      If your fridge is older than 10 or so years, it’s not likely the repair will last long enough to make it worth it. It kind of stinks, because my grandparents had fridges that lasted literally 30 years, but they don’t make them like that any more.

    • Saguaro

      Just replaced a KitchenAid that was only 8 years old. So annoying. I knew it wouldn’t last 20 years, but I thought I would get at least 10 out of it.

      • Kitchenaid

        Ditto – I got 8 years out of a top of the line Kitchenaid refrigerator. Super annoying. I went with a Bosch this time and hope it lasts longer.

  5. Cb

    Does anyone have a tidy entryway? What are your tricks? We have a decent space – a big coat closet, from hooks for kids coats, and a small cupboard with space on top for sunglasses, keys, masks etc but the space is always a disaster. Mail, random kid stuff, parcels to be returned etc. We have a utility room next to it but the counters in there are quite crowded with appliances, recycling boxes etc.
    I think the answer is just to put things away when we walk in, but none of us seem to manage it?

    • Cat

      Maybe you need a few baskets or bags or hooks? If you know you’re not changing your ways, you need to find somewhere to put the stuff right where you need to set it down. Basket for mail? Reusable shopping tote to stash returns-to-be-mailed? Hooks (command hooks are great for this) on the back of the door for keys and masks?

    • Anonymous

      I find baskets help, putting away in the entry to me is fling it in an open top basket so it’s super easy to do and corrals things but takes no extra effort.

    • Anonymous

      You need 10-20 minutes at some point towards the end of the day to deal with this stuff (if it’s just me, no kid, it’s 5 minutes or less, but nagging kid to put her own stuff away is easily 15 minutes). There is no organizational system or piece of furniture that will do it for you.

      • Anon

        This is what I do. Mail is the biggest thing for us. I now try (but don’t always succeed) to get everything unnecessary to the recycling bin and shredder as soon as it comes in.

        • Cb

          We get very little mail – maybe 6 or 7 pieces a week but things seem to gather there in an unhelpful way.

      • Cornellian

        I think this is the unfortunate truth. I’m always so burnt out and wrestling a preschooler an dbags and taking off shoes when I get home, I end up tidying up at night despite my best intentions

        • anon

          I know you meant you’re wrestling bags but this made me laugh because I often come home feeling exhausted from wrestling dbags at work all day. I work in a very macho environment.

          • Cornellian

            hahahahhahaha yeah i’m an investment attorney and work with 95% investment dudes, maybe it was a Freudian slip.

          • Anon

            I caught that too and know exactly what you mean by wrestling dbags all day!

    • anon

      I feel like it’s a never-ending battle. Unless the whole family commits to touching the item once and putting it away right away (not super realistic, let’s face it), it’s hard to stay on top of it. That said, here are a few things that have worked for us:
      – Using hooks, not hangers, especially for kid stuff.
      – Having separate baskets for clean and dirty masks.
      – Backpacks end up getting stowed in their bedrooms most of the time. It ends up making more sense because that’s where homework gets done anyway.
      – Hanging basket for mail

    • Anonymous

      This may not help the overall tidiness question, but for me, all of the things you list have separate homes away from the entryway. Shoes and other personal items get taken off and put in your room (rain boots live in the garage). Coat in the coat closet. Mail on the breakfast table in the kitchen (junk mail gets thrown out before it comes into the house). Packages to be sent either go in the car or in front of the door to the garage so I can’t avoid them.

    • Ribena

      I have a little shelf next to the door for keys and a mask.
      Then on the other side of the door I have this thing that’s like a row of cubbies with hooks below. Coats and bike helmet on the hooks, masks, hats, and scarves in the cubbies above.
      Underneath that I have a shoe rack that just contains the shoes I’m actively wearing at the moment – all the others go in the big cupboard at the other end of the hallway.
      I have a recurring task in Tody to tidy it up every few weeks.

    • Anon

      Baskets and like minded people. It’s a never-ending battle if you’re the only person who cares.

    • Anonymous

      You have to design your storage system and your routine to make putting things away as easy as possible, then build the habit of sticking to the routine. I have found it most successful to store things as close as possible to where they are used or put on/taken off. For example, bike helmets are hung in the garage above the space where bikes are parked. Coats and shoes live in the entry closet, right next to the bench where we sit to put on/take off shoes.

      We have a “touch it once” rule. Nothing gets set down temporarily to be put away later–everything goes to its proper home immediately. Junk mail goes directly into a recycling bin near the door. Keys go straight into their bin next to the door. Coats are hung up and shoes go on the shoe rack in the bottom of the coat closet. Next, lunch boxes are emptied, containers go into the dishwasher, and lunch boxes are put away in the pantry. Packages are then opened and the contents either put away or immediately packaged for return and placed in the outgoing package spot. All of this gets done before anyone sits down, starts dinner, etc. This is the only way we can keep stuff and chores from piling up.

    • Anon-for-this

      I think you have your answer- if you can’t find the energy to use the system you have, you need a different system. I’d vote for accepting that the utility room will be messy and move some stuff so that you have a mudroom designated space in there.

      Signed #teammessyentryisfineaslongasitsnotvisible

    • Anonymous

      If you don’t tend to get time-sensitive mail, try getting the mail just once a week and dealing with it right then – drop spam into the recycle bin before it even comes into the house, then hand people their envelopes.
      I’ve done this for 20 years (ok not the “tidy immediately” part but the “get it once a week”) and I don’t think I’ve ever missed anything – anything important tends to come by email. Jury duty summons seem to have a few weeks notice, as do any parking tickets, voting documents etc.

      • Anon

        I think this assumes you don’t have a tiny mailbox next to your front door that overflows with even one day’s mail. You must have a large locking box somewhere else?

    • Anonymous

      Closets are not working for you, you are not as a family capable of using them correctly. That’s fine. You probably need hooks in the open, so that everybody can see their stuff and have their own hooks.

      Parcels to returned – make a routine to bring them to the car. (I’m assuming based on the rest that you use cars, not public transport).

      Mail – any mail that isn’t important enough to bring further into the house is trash. Cancel all subscriptions that send you junk. Keep ONE place in the house where important mail not yet dealt with can stay. Not in the hallway.

  6. anon

    I have some decisions to make soon if I want to request a hybrid work schedule. I’m wavering between two options. Any thoughts on what would be best?

    Three days in the office/two days at home: The main selling point here is 100% personal, not that I’m sharing that with my boss. It would give me a better work/life balance, with less driving and more time to rest in the morning. We have child care for our elementary schooler, but if I did a 3/2, either DH or I would be home after school with our middle schooler 4 days a week. He doesn’t need to be watched, but I do think having some parental presence, rather than being home alone all the time, would be helpful. The main con is that I’m a director myself and don’t want to be seen/perceived as the absentee leader. I also know that I don’t love switching back and forth between work environments, but it may be worth it for the balance.

    Four days in the office/one day at home: The at-home day would be reserved for projects that require lots of concentration. I could get away with not scheduling other meetings on that day and doing all my meetings while in the office. Not sure if that would be the case with a 3/2 schedule.

    I’ll admit that I’m struggling a bit with the whole idea of hybrid scheduling. Yes, without a doubt it’s better for our personal lives. I also think it’s far easier to have either everyone at home or everyone in the office.

    • Anonymous

      3/2 no question. Be a leader! Lead your people to know that there is no reason why they should be in the office every day.

      • anon a mouse

        +1. Also consider if you can signal that there are certain days when you expect everyone to be in office. Even pre-pandemic I worked with a lot of 4/1 remote workers but everyone was in the office on Thursdays, those were our big meeting days. And continue to do video meetings so that you maintain the connection even if you are at home.

        • anon

          Definitely planning on that! I agree that at least one day a week needs to be reserved as a touchpoint for everyone.

          • Anon

            Do you not have team members in other locations? The all in the same office only makes sense if you all work in the same place.

      • Anon

        THIS. Please, when people at the top of the food chain take advantage of WFH, it makes it feel like the rest of us can, too. You can tell me all you want that we can do hybrid, but a director being in 4/1 tells me that the expectation is that we will be back to butts in seats.

      • Anon

        This. I’m an SVP and thinking 2 days in on a a lot of weeks, 3 during more visible times, but never more than that. This pandemic proved to the naysayers that productivity can happen at home. Step up and set a great example. 1 day a week at home is old-school.

    • Cat

      Adding to the debate (sorry) but one other thing to consider is if you want your reports to be comfortable with 3-2 scheduling (i.e., not worried that they are losing out on opportunities because they are in fewer days than Boss is), it wouldn’t hurt if a leader actually did it too.

    • Anon

      As a director, I’m choosing 3/2 with options to occasionally be 2/3. One, it sets the tone for the rest of my team that I support whatever flexibility they choose, and also demonstrates I’m committed to making remote work just as productive as in-office work.

      But also, home life is important. My kids are older elementary and I see how much they need that involved, present parent. They are self-sufficient but will still be in daycamp for the summer, so I’ve got childcare from 8-4. Even if I didn’t have kids though, saving that commute and having time to run an errand or two over lunch on a slower day makes a huge impact to my weekends. I can fit in an hour of work on Sat morning, go workout, and still have what feels like an entire day ahead of me. As my therapist says, I need that time to be human in order to destress and live long enough to enjoy the life I have.

      For concerns about absentee leader, I plan to continue what I’m doing currently – lots of touch points during the day via chat or text. Turning my video on for select meetings. And packing my days in the office with 1:1s and coffee runs so I can maintain that network.

      • anon

        OP here, and I agree with all of this. I’m curious how you’re handling 1:1s with people who might be choosing different in-office days than you are.

        • Anonymous

          Zoom. Since I don’t need to physically touch my direct reports there is no reason I can’t video conference with them, same as I have the last year and a half.

        • Anon

          For my team, I’m adding a Webex to every meeting and listing the location as My Office/ Webex. They can feel free to call in on their home days, but it gives the option if they want to meet in person.
          For those who don’t report to me, I’m scheduling them similarly but with a note that I’m flexible if they prefer a different day to be in person. (Our in-office days are somewhat flexible so I’m happy to move my days in the office for that week to accommodate, depending on the person.)

        • Anon

          Fwiw, I’ve always done 1:1s on the phone or in person depending on what’s more convenient. It’s a touch point not a summons to see me.

          • CountC

            Same – I haven’t experienced any issues or complaints using this approach.

        • anonymous

          It’s been 5 or 6 years since I’ve had a boss who is in the same state as me. We’ve done 1:1s and performance reviews over the phone, not even Zoom.

    • Bonnie Kate

      I’m 100% in the office right now, eventually I am going to need to work toward your 4/1 hybrid because of projects that require my concentration that I do not get in my office. I also think this day needs to be fixed – like always Thursdays – opposed to floating.

      Regarding the 3/2 schedule – what days would your home days be? I think the biggest perception issue with 2 days home is that if the two days are Monday/Friday, it looks like long weekends all the time. Anyone with a brain and experience working in a mixed office should know this is not the case, but people don’t always use their brains… I think you’ll have an easier time if it’s the two days are not connected, and it will also help you feel more connected to the office since since you won’t have long periods of time when you’re not there. However, it means you’re bouncing back and forth quite a bit and personally I would not like this at all.

      • anon

        If I did this, I’d probably use Tuesday/Thursday as my home days. I’d actually prefer Thursday/Friday, but I agree that it looks like an extended weekend and may prove logistically challenging over time. It’s the bouncing back and forth that might make me crazy (guess I won’t know unless I try).

        • Cat

          I’d pick based on evening commitments. Like – the days that both kids have a sport or activity would be a good one not to commute.

          I would not pick M and F as the home days just for optics, tempting as it may be.

          • Anonymous

            If you do pick M and F as home days, for the love of god, don’t post pictures of yourself on the beach on instagram on those days. And trust me when I say that if you do, you’re ruining it for everyone else (ask me how I know).

          • Anon

            I’m going to push back here. That’s thinking that’s very appropriate for a junior person, but as a leader (director and up), set an example that you expect and know work can get done at home on any day of the week, including Mondays and Fridays, and model it. You have the power to create the work environment you’d like to work on, so do it. Make things okay. Make it okay for people to have lives and jobs.

          • Cat

            *Amending my response. Based on leadership at my company, I would not pick M and F for optics reasons. YMMV depending on how senior you are…

          • Anon

            Thanks for the amendment, Cat. Agreed. And I just strongly encourage everyone here who is a leader to act like it and reshape these cultural norms that aren’t good for anyone – design for the good employee, not the one bad apple. There are other ways to deal with problem people.

        • Anon

          Traffic and commute times tend to be better on Friday in most places because so many people WFH or take time off on Fridays, so there’s a silver lining to working from home on Thursday instead of Friday. And, it’s still Friday, so still a happy day.

    • Anon

      3/2 no question. I would do blocks like Monday home, Tuesday Wed Thurs office, Friday home.
      It is much easier to switch in the future to more office time than the other direction so give yourself flexibility.

    • Anon

      I am in a similar position, and I have decided to go with the 3/2. I think the greater continuity and availability for those in the office (and everyone will be hybrid or office only) to just stop by my office facilitate conversation. I love working from home, but there are some casual exchanges that are lost with remote work.

    • MechanicalKeyboard

      3/2 no question. Don’t make things harder for yourself because someone *might* perceive it in a negative way. You aren’t even certain that they would so you’d be bending over backwards for an imaginary naysayer. You already know that 3/2 is better for your lifestyle and you get to set the tone for your team. We have tons of tools that make remote work possible and productive so use them without guilt.

      • Anonymous

        Definitely this, don’t inconvenience yourself for the *chance* that it could be perceived badly. Women do that a lot, I think, and it hurts us in the workplace.

      • anon

        You’re 100% right. I do this to myself SO OFTEN, and I think I need help (or practice) in untangling this. :)

      • Anonymous

        +1 – Also, I think wanting to spend less time commuting is understandable to anyone, regardless of whether they have a partner, children, etc.

    • Anon

      I know that this is unpopular, and (obviously) feel free to ignore – but I think leaders should be in the office more. I would opt for 4 days in the office. I think being out of the office 40% of the week is too much to meaningfully manage people, especially folks who are early in their career.

        • Anon

          Yes, I’m advocating micromanaging. That’s it.

          I know this hard for you to understand – but reasonable minds can disagree on things.

          • Anon

            Take your own advice. You seem remarkably resistant to feedback that your idea may not be as brilliant as you think it is. I doubt that will serve you well in personal or business life over the long term.

          • Anon

            Actually doing great on both fronts because I can listen to other ideas without immediately disparaging them. Try it some time.

          • anon

            Yikes, you sound like my arrogant boss who absolutely can’t handle feedback but thinks she’s so open-minded. You may be lacking some self-awareness because you definitely come across as very thin-skinned.

          • Anon

            I’ve just been pushing back on snarky, unhelpful comments lately, and it feels good! It’s very triggering to privileged women who aren’t used to it.

          • anon

            Yeah people don’t like jerks, what a surprise. Too bad you don’t see you’re the problem. Fun personality ya got there.

      • Anon

        I tend to agree. For newer people, it might be easier/more comfortable for them to be able to stop by the boss’s office vs. having to call her. Especially as younger people are not so comfortable on the phone, which, no shade, I myself do not like talking on the phone.

        I don’t know that a boss would need to be 4/1, but I would think 3 days in, 2 days out would be reasonable.

        • Cornellian

          Yeah, if I were responsible for a lot of people 1-2 years in to their career, I’d maybe err on the 4/1 side if you want to have valuable mid-level employees in a few years. If there are people below you doing most of their training, though, probably doesn’t matter.

          • Anon

            there are and have been many companies functioning pre pandemic with teams located all over the world. if i have a question for my boss, I can slack them and ask if they have time for a quick call.

          • anon

            Yeah I think a lot of younger employees prefer using text or Slack anyway, so I’m not sure how much your physical presence matters to them.

          • anon

            Some younger employees like slack, others don’t. Our return to work policies are being crafted based on employee responses and we were surprised to find that a larger number of younger employees want to be in the office (and want senior people around more). Now, this may be partially driven by the fact that a lot of our younger employees live in the city with small apartments and may just want the separate space. We’re aiming to provide flexibility for people but the concern about junior employees who want to be in/want face to face interactions with senior people isn’t just something that older extroverted employees made up like some posters seem to assume

          • Cornellian

            Anon at 12:14, I agree, but lawyers are often reticent to create records (via slack, teams, etc) and stopping by in person can be necessary, and not just because old lawyers are used to being able to have access to baby lawyers.

            As a (relatively) young lawyer I used to think the inability to use slack/etc was silly, but now that I’ve been through some litigation and federal regulatory investigations, I think I get it.

          • Anon

            anon at 12:50, it’s entirely possible that your younger employees do not have children. Spending less time with your family when it’s entirely possible to spend more is really frustrating, and WFH makes mornings much less stressful.

            I will also say that family-friendly policies are often woman-friendly policies, because it’s women are more likely to step back in their careers when juggling career and family becomes too much. This is the result of a series of small setbacks – some discrimination in hiring, discrimination when she negotiates pay, some discrimination in staffing of projects, throw in a side of being ignored at meetings, add in a good dose of slowdown in career progression during pregnancy and maternity leave, and his career is off like a rocket and hers is stalling, so, of course, she’s the one to (AGAIN) take the hit.

          • anon

            Anon at 1:47 (this is anon at 12:50) I totally get it, I’m a mom too. But I also know those early in person interactions were really helpful to me as a junior. It’s all a balancing act. I’m personally pushing for more remote work but did want to add that there are actually employees who want more in person work and we’re trying to figure out how to balance everyone’s wish list in this new normal. My personal view on this is we should designate specific in person days so those are the days when those in person things happen, and then let people chose their own adventure for other days.

        • anon

          I agree with this. As you get more senior, more of your role is just being available to answer questions, etc. That’s harder to do remotely especially with newer/junior people who may not be comfortable picking up the phone or even if they pick up the phone then you don’t get the benefit of seeing their facial expression, which can be helpful for cluing you in that they don’t understand even if they aren’t expressly asking clarifying questions. I think it’s a hard balance to strike though because I also think it’s good for senior people to set an example that WFH is acceptable but I think in an ideal world managers would be in more than their direct reports, especially if direct reports aren’t all in on the same days

        • Anon

          In my experience, younger and junior people rarely stop by offices randomly if someone more than a few years ahead of them and certainly a junior associate would rarely swing by a partners office unplanned. Maybe other industries differ, but I think the idea that offices promote spontaneous interaction between managers and supervisors is not true.

      • anonymous

        Not everyone has direct reports in the same geographic location. My boss is in Virginia, I’m in Indiana. His other direct reports are in other various states.

      • Anon

        I feel very outdated based on the comments, so maybe that’s it. I just feel very lucky that I was trained in person by managers who were very good at their jobs. I learned contract drafting because they literally sat in a room with me and went over each section. I learned investigations because they brought me into the room to do it. I got a cherry assignment in Australia early in my career because I was walking by the GC’s office one day when he got the news of a key departure. Right now, I’m in a leadership position where all of our production workers have been coming in this whole time. I know they appreciated me being there to talk to them and listen to their concerns. (I do think the WFH exacerbates the blue/white collar divide) All of these were in person interactions. I understand – the world is different. I’m not saying I’m right. Just based on my personal experience, I really benefitted from in person management. And I do believe in WFH and flex schedules! I’m just saying there is another way to look at it.

        • Anon

          Have you tried doing this virtually with your direct reports? For example, I do zooms with people I supervise so we can screen share and talk through sections of a document or modify as we go and discuss. Remote work doesn’t mean people should stop teaching.

      • Anon

        The people trying to argue (??) with you here are insane. Nothing you’re saying is outrageous.

        • Anon

          I think WFH is very important to people (for a number of valid reasons). But they are so protective of it, that they view any criticism of it as a huge threat and attack the critic rather than engage in a good faith debate about why they disagree.

      • Anon

        I agree. Lots of snarky responses, but some of us find value in a common, physical presence, and leaders need to be there if your organization values those connections.

      • Anonymous

        I agree with this. Things fall through the cracks when WFH and it’s hard for the office culture.

        Also, if you take Friday as WFH, everyone assumes you are doing your own thing, not work.

    • Cornellian

      Does your answer affect current or future office space options? I pushed and got a 3/2 or 2/3 schedule in office, but it means I’m sharing an office with a coworker. I’m not too worried about the optics and like my coworker, but something to consider.

      I’d also think about who else you may need to physically see, and their schedule. I want to overlap with our CIO and have scheduled accordingly.

    • Anon

      “but if I did a 3/2, either DH or I would be home after school with our middle schooler 4 days a week. He doesn’t need to be watched, but I do think having some parental presence, rather than being home alone all the time, would be helpful.”

      Mom of a young teen here. They don’t need you physically present to supervise them, but there’s a lot of emotional stuff that goes on in middle school that I’m glad I was there to hear about/deal with when my son was in that stage. “Big kids, big problems” was definitely true in our case, and 7th/8th grade was when we had to have some heavy conversations about drugs, s*x, violence, s*xuality, etc. based on things he’d heard about from peers at school. I don’t think you’ll regret doing 3/2s for that reason.

    • Anon

      You may end up finding you love switching work environments daily. I hated it the first two days (making sure I brought the right stuff back and forth) but I find myself so much more productive switching between the two. It feels new and novel instead of another ho hum day in the same spot.

  7. Sarah

    Any recommendations for five days in/around Portland? Travelling there in July for our first post-Covid vacation, with the vague notion that the city and area would be fun to visit, but now trying to figure out exactly what we want to do (and therefore, where we should stay). Thanks!

    • Anon

      Maine or Oregon? I think the city of Portland, OR is still struggling with some unrest downtown. We plan to hike in/around Mount Hood when we’re out there for a wedding this summer.

    • anon

      For the one in OR: farmer markets, Japanese garden, various state parks, the Columbia River gorge. The Oregon coast with beach towns like Astoria, Seaside etc. is also just under 2 hrs drive from the city.

      • Hazel

        The rose test garden is quite near the Japanese garden and should be gorgeous in July. I’d never realized roses can be so strongly perfumed before I visited!

      • Anon

        I was going to suggest Seaside. One of the prettiest places I’ve ever been. Astoria is lovely too.

    • Anonymous

      I’ll answer for OR – avoid downtown (it’s not actually unsafe mostly, I’ve been quite a few times during the daytime and have been fine. it’s just kind of sad right now and I wouldn’t recommend it to visitors). I’d stay in a cute airbnb in a neighborhood in NE or SE (e.g. near Alberta, division, Hawthorne, near nw 23rd). Go to the Japanese garden, rose garden, forest park, hike up to pittock mansion in SW, eat/shop near nw 23rd. on the east side go to mt tabor, laurelhurst park, lots of amazing breweries and restaurants. if you want a drive you can go to Multnomah falls or lots of great hikes, drive along the gorge and go to hood river, or to the coast.

      • Anon

        We stayed in downtown Portland OR when we visited in 2019 and I will concur that it is “kind of sad,” but we did not ever feel really unsafe. The Portland art museum downtown is amazing, and there are some other neat things down there, but I would rather have visited those things and stayed somewhere else in the city.

    • Sarah

      Thanks all! Posted this and then had a string of meetings, so didn’t see the obvious question. Oregon it is. Very helpful responses. (Someone mentioned the unrest, and I thought it might have been Fox News hyperbole, good to know that the downtown is actually not great for visiting right now…)

  8. Sunny

    I know general consensus here is not positive towards tattoos, but how do you feel about ones that are 1) fairly abstract, not representing anything most people would recognize (no words, no concrete images, etc.) and 2) covering up visible scarring? I have some scars from a bike accident that I would like to cover up, but the worst of them are on my knee and wrist, both of which are visible in some clothes. The symbol would be something from a fictional series that has personal meaning, but it’s not obviously fiction-based.

    Thoughts? Thanks!

    • anon

      To me (a non-tattoo person), a tattoo is a tattoo is a tattoo. I will notice when someone has one; I don’t pay that much attention to the design at all. If you want one, get what you want (it’s permanent after all, so you’d better love it).

      • Cat

        same, I don’t like them for myself, but unless the design is super in-your-face (think Amy Winehouse’s Daddy’s Girl arm), I don’t really pay attention, just notice Oh, A Tattoo.

    • Bonnie Kate

      I don’t have tattoos, but I’ve toyed with it. I doubt I’ll ever actually get one unless I have a major event or maybe a situation like yours. I’m just not sure I could commit to one design forever.

      For your wrist and knee – knee in my opinion is no problem because you can always easily cover that up if you want to. On the wrist, my opinion changes with how big the tattoo would be. And honestly how minimal/chic it is – if it’s cool, I’m going to admire it and wish I had the guts/commitment to put a cool tattoo on my wrist. :)

      Although honestly, when it comes to people I work with, I really don’t note tattoos at all. I think they’re becoming a non-issue as long as they’re not extreme (like on your head/neck or depicting something very crazy). Caveat – I’m in a construction/tech adjacent industry so we’re far more casual than big law/consulting. My boss used to have a big issue with tattoos and when we hired a few client-facing people with a lot of arm tattoos (not full sleeves but maybe half a sleeve) he “asked” them to wear long sleeves. In the last round of hiring it was a non-issue and we have several employees in client facing roles with lots of tattoos. The employees with tattoos are all very competent (#1 requirement for our team – competence) and the competence beats any tattoo preconceptions every time.

      I’m super curious about what the tattoo would be/what fictional series you’re drawing from. I just got done reading the Harry Potter series again last night (I re-read almost yearly) and am imagining all kinds of fun cool tattoos from HP.

      • Anon

        I’m no HP superfan, but I’ve seen and recognized lots of deathly hollows tattoos, OP, if that’s what you’re thinking of.

    • Anonymous

      If you like tattoos go for it! I hate them personally but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with other people having them.

    • Anonymous

      Idk if tattoos are becoming more common or if I’m just noticing them more, but imho it seems that many/most people have them even if they’re not visible. Unless you’re in a very conservative field I think this is nbd. I’m in biglaw and several successful attorneys have visible tattoos on their arms.

      Have you spoken to a tattoo artist about tattooing over scar tissue? My bigger concern is that it would become misshapen or fade unevenly over time, which I think would be a bigger problem professionally than having a neat and tidy tattoo. And yes apparently we can now talk about “is my tattoo professional?” a la “is my water bottle professional?”

    • test run

      I have three that fit the bill you’re describing and I love them! Mine are in locations that are easily covered by clothing, so I don’t really show them off at work, but that’s more to do with the air conditioning in my office than anything else – I work in a pretty conservative environment and I still doubt anyone would care. You should be prepared for “ooh, what do those mean??” questions from strangers, which can be annoying, but a bland canned response usually nips it in the bud (“I just liked the design,” is my go to).

    • JTM

      I’ll be the voice of dissent here – as someone who has a tattoo on each wrist, I say go for it! Why deny yourself something you want just because some people aren’t a fan?

      • Anon

        Yes, I love tattoos, but currently only have one in a non-visible place. Hoping to get a massive one in the not-to-distant future. If you love it you love. Who gives a crap what other people think (or how it will look when you’re old – so what!)

      • CountC

        +1 I have three and am getting a fourth. I DGAF what anyone thinks of them because they are personal to me. If you want it, do it.

      • anonshmanon

        except you are not the voice of dissent – everyone on this thread is encouraging the OP to do it. I know I keep bringing this up, but when folks start a post with ‘I’ll be the voice of dissent’ or ‘This will be an unpopular opinion’, it very often is neither. I think it is harmful to intentionally perceive yourself at odds with everyone else.

          • anonshmanon

            The same still applies. No comment was visible that said anything bad about tattoos, yet the poster saw the need to ‘defend’ tattoos. Why make up a problem/attack on your life choices that isn’t there?

          • Anon

            BS, you just want to be an edgelord. OOH look at edgy tattoed person here, as if 75% of the US population in your age group doesn’t have tattoos.

        • Jamie

          lol anonshmanon “why make up a problem” when thats literally what you’re doing

          • anonshmanon

            I mean, maybe you’re right. You probably are. I can’t extrapolate from a random sentence from an internet stranger. I just can’t help to draw the connection of something like this to the (made up) War on Christmas and more serious examples in which a perpetual rhetoric of ‘I am in need to defend myself against an invisible enemy’ led to real-world harm and violence. But seeing a connection from words to actions is probably crazy – right?

        • JTM

          OP literally started her post with “I know general consensus here is not positive towards tattoos”, so yes, me liking tattoos is the voice of dissent. But feel free to continue to argue something that is of no importance since it seems to make you feel better about yourself.

    • Anon

      Maybe tattoos aren’t popular here but many, many people in the world outside of Corporette have tattoos! I have two myself. Go for what makes you happy.

    • Anon

      Do it. Caveat I’m in the Bay Area where they’re a dime a dozen, on CEOs and no one bats an eyelash. But unless you’re talking about a face tattoo, make yourself happy, your job doesn’t get everything about you.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I have seven tattoos, several of which are visible in short sleeves (and my back piece peeks out of my collar). Go for it. My only advice would be to choose your artist carefully; tattooing over scars can be tricky.

      • Senior Attorney

        Unencumbered as I am with any actual knowledge on the topic, I have to think there are tatooists who specialize in covering scars…

        • NY CPA

          I think you’re right. I recall seeing a documentary or spotlight video or something about tattoo artists who specialize in tattooing over mastectomy scars. I don’t personally have any desire for a tattoo but I remember thinking that if I had to have a big traumatic scar like that, I’d like to have a great tattoo that is really cool and transforms a constant visible reminder of your suffering into a work of art.

        • Anon

          I’m getting my brows microbladed (which will be my only tattoo) and the shop I’m going to has a menu of prices for services and one of them is “Turn your radiation marker into a cute freckle. – Free #cancersucks” which made me like, take my money. Take it all.

    • Anon

      Get the tattoo if it makes you happy, not if a group of strangers (this one or any other) approves.

    • Anon

      That is impossible to answer without knowing (1) where you live and (2) your industry/position.

      Tattoos in the South are not the same as tattoos in the Bay Area. Tattoos on people who are not in public facing roles are different from the same on people who deal with clients/customers. I am an attorney with two major clients with strict rules of “no visible tattoos” for employees and would hesitant to have something visible (or send an associate with something visible) to them. I have clients who would not care a bit.

      The knee is not an issue because it is easy to cover. The wrist might be. However, only you can answer whether the scar bothers you more than the tattoo might hurt in your specific location/industry.

      • Anon

        I live in the South, and I can’t throw a rock without hitting someone with multiple tattoos so not sure what that statement is trying to prove.

    • Cornellian

      I think we need more info (age, region, career, etc) but I’d probably say go for it. I’m a millennial lawyer and basically everyone I know has at least one and often more. They’re not for me, but if it’s not offensive/huge and distracting, I wouldn’t think twice about it in my environment.

      That said, I think some of the elder employees at my state agency and in my old BigLaw job would have different takes.

    • Anon

      Tattoos are fine with me (and I think they are totally mainstream these days) but I think the knee might be an unusual location for tattoo.

    • Anonymous

      I think it’s easier to get away with a tattoo if you are more mature and more senior, and if the tattoo is obviously related to a health issue. I worked with a judge in the SEUS who had a highly visible tattoo related to cancer and no one dared bat an eye at it.

      I have seriously considered a tattoo with personal significance in a non-visible location. I’ve never gone ahead with it because 1) they tend to fade and look messy over time and 2) my fashion and aesthetic preferences are constantly evolving, and I can’t be certain that I’d love it forever.

  9. Anonymous

    Do “dressier” rompers exist? I got a couple a few years ago that I could dress up (as much as you can shorts) with some jewelry and cute shoes for an evening out in the summer. I’ve been looking for something similar for this summer, and all I can find are athleisure rompers. I see so many cute, belted jumpsuits, but I want something a bit cooler and just a bit more casual. Something akin to nicer shorts with a cute top. Any ideas? Also, feel free to let me know if this is just super out of touch.

  10. Anon

    I recently came across a professional women’s networking group called Ellevate. Is anyone a member? Can you share more about the network and whether you like it and find it valuable?

  11. Anonymous

    Help me make a decision about my honeymoon next week. I was going to take 2 weeks off total for the pre-wedding, wedding, plus “mini moon” with the hopes of taking a longer, farther away honeymoon later. I would come back to the office aka my computer on a Thursday. FH took off that Thursday and Friday. Now I’m realizing maybe my plan was dumb. I just finished up two 300-hour months in a row and I don’t really have anything to do until mid-July. I should just take off the extra two days right? I’m a junior partner, not an associate, if that matters.

    • Cat

      You’re taking 2 weeks off and it doesn’t even involve your actual honeymoon? That would get kind of a stinkeye from my old firm, but if you’re taking that much anyway and taking the goodwill hit, the extra 2 days are not going to matter.

        • anne-on

          Ditto – I took 2 weeks off in total for my wedding AND honeymoon. I think (sadly) in the US you can only really ‘get away’ with those long chunks of time off for once in a lifetime events like honeymoons/childbirth OR if you need to return home to visit family overseas (I’m talking India/Asia/Australia) where it doesn’t make sense to go for less time, but people usually try to bookend those around big holiday shutdowns (July 4th/Winter holidays/etc.).

          • Anon

            In the US if you’re in Big Law (at least I gather from reading here). Definitely not true in every workplace.

          • Anon

            It really depends on the office. At my prior biglaw office, I took a number of 2 weeks vacations and no one batted an eye. Maybe I got away with it because everyone knew I would put in the hours when needed and always hit my hour targets and then some, but I was a highly respected associate despite my trips over year or two. In my current government office, month vacations are not that unusual. Heck, I took a 3 week vacation just over a year after starting and people just said how fun my trip sounded.

      • Anonymous

        +1. It sounds like your “mini moon” is going to be as long as, or even longer than, many honeymoons.

        • Anonymous

          Personally the the term “mini moon” for this reason. It’s a honeymoon! You are free to take a longer, fancier, more expensive trip later, but that’s a trip.

        • Anon

          Or she’s taking off a lot of time before the wedding? Hard to tell from the original comment.

    • AFT

      Is anyone going to know if you aren’t doing much work? If you’re still remote, can you just…. not really do much those days? Or check email but only respond to specific time sensitive issues?
      FWIW, I agree with Cat below that 2 weeks + a longer trip would not have flown in my office because we generally allowed 3 weeks total, split between the two if split…. but I don’t think this additional day or two is going to be a ding if that isn’t.

    • Marie

      Take the extra two days extending into the weekend. You will feel so much more refreshed coming back under those circumstances.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think you’ll get any brownie points for returning on Thursday instead of Monday.

    • AnonMPH

      I was out of the office from the Tuesday before my wedding through the Wednesday after (so came back to my computer on Thursday of the week after the wedding). I did that because we were planning a complicated summer camp wedding and we had a ton of prep to do Tues-Thurs and then actually had to set up the camp and start events on Friday. We took a mini-moon Sunday afternoon through Wednesday. While it was sad to come back on Wednesday night, it was a nice quiet little getaway, and then I didn’t really need to do much Thursday and Friday and everyone just wanted to hear about the wedding so I could ease back in. If my husband had still been on vacation for Thursday and Friday though, I would certainly have wanted to continue for the whole week.
      I’m not clear exactly where you wind up with 2 weeks total off in this scenario though. Are you talking more than a week off before the wedding? For a normal wedding, I think taking Thursday and Friday off before would be sufficient.

  12. Anon

    For those of you who have recovered from burnout/exhaustion- how long did it take?

    I work in public health so after a year of crazy hours, lots of work stress, overall unhealthy lifestyle (lots of takeout, little sleep, less working out, more booze than usual, and few of my normal ways to blow off steam) + general pandemic stress, I was tapped out and experienced legitimate burnout abc exhaustion for the first time.

    Work has gotten wayyyy better and I’ve mostly recovered but I’m still more tired than I was pre pandemic with less desire to do chores/eat my meal prep food/workout . I know I won’t recover from burnout overnight, but was wondering approximately how long it might take.

    • Anon

      For me this is what “functional” MD doctors can be good for… when nothing is actually medically wrong that could be diagnosed, but a lot of various things are suboptimal. Any doctor could do a sleep study or check your vitamin levels though.

    • Anonymous

      I call it the stress hangover. First, like any hangover, hydrate, sleep, and move your body.

      Second, when you’ve been out of your routine for this long, you’re basically starting a whole new routine. There’s a lot written about how hard it is to start a new healthy habit, so be kind with yourself and don’t get discouraged if you have a few slips.

      Third, add something new to your routine that you can look forward to. A new workout? A tasty spice mix? Try out a sleep meditation exercise?

      Finally, counterintuitively, you’ll feel more recuperated if you do something that isn’t sitting on the couch in front of the TV with a bottle of wine and a pizza. If you’re too deep in decision fatigue to figure out what to do, go for a walk or read a book outside. Fresh air and sunlight are underrated. Build on that to find other things that rejuvenate you, maybe find a new hiking trail or poke around a little book store or go axe throwing.

    • Cornellian

      I left my 2500 hour a year BigLaw job two years ago and I still have what I think qualify as panic attacks. My (sane, respectful) boss will ask me to stop by and I’ll feel like I’m going to throw up and that someone is sitting on my sternum, even though she usually just wants to, like, plan a lunch out, or schedule a call for next week.

  13. Anonymous

    If you are doing college tours with your kids should you formally register for a tour done by the admissions office? We have been stopping at colleges here and there and eating in or near campus just to expose them (2 kids, a grade apart) if we happened upon a school during our travels since we always have a car. Then COVID hit. I’m not sure what is a nice-to-have vs a need-to-have. Our school is still remote and AWOL in the guidance department.

    • Anon

      20 years ago, we’d swing through college campuses whenever we passed one on a roadtrip. Looking from your car windows or a cafeteria doesn’t need an interaction with Admissions unless you want one.

      • Anon

        This. My older kid only did two organized tours. The rest were just stopping by campuses, sometimes even never leaving the car (more likely for campuses she didn’t like)

        My son is entering college in the fall and never had a live tour due to COVID. We drove to the campus (1.5 hours away) and walked around a couple of times, but that’s it. For him we did take one longer road trip involving an overnight, which we turned into a mini family vacation and stayed in the area for three days. It was in August 2020 when cases were low. We stayed in an air bnb and didn’t eat in a restuarant. Our “college tour” was a walk around the campus. Actually, based on that trip he decided not to apply – his mental image of the place didn’t match the reality.

    • LawDawg

      You should let the Admissions Office know you are visiting. Especially if it is a smaller school. They want to admit students who are likely to attend and knowing that you visited and/or talked to someone at a HS visit or college fair helps. This is based on volunteer work with Admissions at my small, liberal arts college and not every school will be the same. But it can’t hurt to register that you were there.

    • Elle

      I think college tours from the admissions office are very helpful! I don’t think just seeing the building on a campus gives you much information. A tour gives your kid a chance to interact with an actual student at that college (especially if you’re able to pick a tour guide who is in the major your child is interested in) and get a feel for how the college presents itself. I would also highly recommend eating in the main dining hall- you can pay for it out of pocket because a lot of colleges have terrible cafeteria food and freshman are required to have meal plans.

    • Anon

      Many colleges track all contact with the institution as part of the algorithm used to predict “will attend if admitted.” I recommend registering with the campus and doing the official tour. Caveat: the wrong tour guide will totally bias many kids. Signed, a college administrator and mom who has done the college tours.

    • Cat

      What worked well for me was casually seeing several styles of campuses when they were nearby a road trip (tiny & picturesque, State U, city, etc).

      It helped me narrow down what I loved – urban campus – and then prioritize the official visits accordingly. IIRC schools do note if you’ve gone on a registered visit – they like their acceptance rate of admitted students high!

    • SMC- San Diego

      We did drive/walk throughs of a LOT of schools. Basically if we were in a town/city with a university we would stop by and look at the campus. We only did the official tour for four she was really seriously considering (would have been 5 but we arrived at one school and she hated the campus the minute we got out of the car so decided not to waste our time). She found the official tours helpful in making the final decision and we got some great advice.

      My one rule was I was not doing out of state tours until she was actually admitted. (I live in California so the in-state school visits were already plenty of travel). We were talking about three of those but ended up only doing two because out-of-state tour #2 was so clearly where she really wanted to go.

    • Anon

      Admissions offices keep track of how often students contact the school (emails, opening emails, visiting campus, etc.) and it affects admissions decisions.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, if they are sophomores or juniors. You learn so much more about the school in a real tour, have more access to the campus, and some schools like it as demonstrated interest.

    • Anonymous

      If your kid is a sophomore or older, definitely pre-register for a tour with the admissions office. I am planning the first college visit for my rising sophomore, and right now the school still isn’t doing live tours but is tracking visits. According to my friends with older kids, the student’s demonstrated interest is now weighted heavily in admissions decisions because schools are trying to maximize their yield rates. They track how many times the student visits the school website, etc. It is insane and intimidating.

  14. Anon

    For people whose offices have called you back beginning in fall, how worried are you that it’s going to coincide with another wave in the fall despite the vaccinations? I was originally feeling confident about the success of vaccinations against another wave in the fall. But after seeing the Indian variant’s rise in the UK compared to the other variants and that two doses are still about 60-80% effective, as well as anecdotal data points about individuals who passed away in India despite getting the two shots, I’m starting to feel a little apprehensive.

    • Anon

      I’m not. I’m incredibly fortunate to be in excellent health, surrounded entirely by coworkers who are fully vaccinated, and employed by a firm that will quickly revert to 100% telework if needed.

      Gently, you can die today crossing the street. So if you are vaccinated and associate with other people who are vaccinated and distance yourself from those who aren’t, you’re doing what you can. Treatment for COVID has advanced as they’ve learned what works. We’ll all likely need a booster shot this winter-ish, so let’s put our trust in science and these wonderful vaccines.

    • AFT

      My worries about a fall surge are mostly about whether it could lead to the re-closing of elementary schools since those kids can’t be vaxxed. My area has a pretty good (slightly above US average) vaccination level, and my office colleagues are mostly vaccinated and we have good safety procedures in place. Variants are always an X factor, but I think the best we can do at this point is get as many people vaccinated as possible and make good decisions.

      • Anon

        This. I don’t have kids but I am worried about the lack of child care and impact on my coworkers (and my business) if this happens again.

    • anonnnn

      I’m not. For my own health, I refuse to stress about something I have no control over.

    • Cat

      Not really. If there’s another wave, my office will postpone its reopening, as it’s been doing throughout.

    • Anon

      Don’t borrow trouble. If it happens, I’m sure your company will reassess returning to the office since you’re out now. Fall is a target date but the pandemic sent people home in a second and if conditions change, you’re already set up for it.

    • Anon

      I’m personally preparing on the assumption that we could have a fall wave of cases and closings. I think hospital capacity near me will determine what happens more than cases will, and even now the hospitals aren’t far from full.

      • Anon

        I follow “Your local epidemiologist” who had a post today about what we do and don’t know about how things are going. Planning for different realistic scenarios doesn’t cause me feelings of worry or apprehension though, whereas being prepared for what happens this fall could benefit me. So it’s an easy cost/benefit calculus for me. I also have to think ahead since the jury is still out on whether the vaccine even worked for me given my immune status.

        • Anonymous

          In the exact same boat. Others seem to feel a lot of distress at planning for scenarios, but that’s not the case for me. It’s like getting my emergency go-bag ready in wildfire country – it’s something you do to make your life better if the worst happens. Also not sure if the vaccine worked for me – was hoping to get into a clinical trial to assess that question but I think it’s not happening :(

        • Cat

          Yeah this is what I mean when I say I’m not worried- because (a) might not happen, if so great, (b) if does happen, I know my office will behave responsibly and postpone The Reopening, and (c) I am planning All The Travel this summer so that if we go back to limited travel again, at least I’ve gotten away a bunch while I could.

    • Flats Only

      Nope. Then again, I refuse to “borrow trouble” as my mother would say.

    • Anonymous

      I’m not worried about my office or my personal health really, but I work for a NYC theater that is finally planning to reopen in September. It will be devastating for those in the performing arts if we have to shut everything down again.

    • anonshmanon

      Just want to push back against lending too much weight to that anecdotal evidence. If you do the numbers, this is totally expected and has been mentioned from the get-go. Even the originally cited 95% efficacy of the vaccine always meant that the remaining 5% would still be at risk. 5% of a 100 million people is 5 million people.
      But reducing hospitalizations by 95% means that hospitals can much better care for the patients they have. In a lot of countries, the data show that this matters. Places with extreme surges have lost more people than those with the same number of cases spread over a longer time frame.

      • Cat

        It’s 95% against catching Covid at all. The risk of hospitalization or death is even lower, but once you multiply that tiny fraction by a billion people, of course there will be some severe cases or deaths among the vaxxed population.

    • Anon

      Same as what other folks are saying: I am not investing time/energy worrying about this. If it happens it happens, and we will deal with it. I’m only going to invest so much emotion into things I have no control over, and I also feel like over the last year, I (and my family) learned a lot about resiliency and how to quickly adapt to changing circumstances if need be. That will carry us through whatever happens next.

    • Anon

      Not at all worried. Although I’ve been back in the office since last September and we’ve had no issues…

    • Anon

      Not that worried, but also I have been in person this entire time. From my perspective (being in a full office, 14hr days 6 days a week, in March 2020 before there was guidance to wear a mask), I can’t imagine being too concerned about things in September 2021 with a vaccinated workforce.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, I do think a variant-driven surge is likely this fall. I also think that it’s too soon to know for certain how it will all play out, in terms of both vaccine effectiveness and employer policies. My employer (led by old white lawyers who never closed the office even though they should have under the governor’s executive order, and who never stopped working in the office themselves) has made surprising last-minute pivots away from forcing everyone back into the office several times. As someone who always likes to have a plan, I’ve had to learn to roll with the uncertainty during the pandemic. I make it easier on myself by gaming out possible scenarios and contingency plans for how I will react if conditions change, my employer makes a certain decision, etc. So right now I have thought through what things will look under various combinations of full-time WFH/part-time WFH/full-time in-office for me and my husband, combined with various school scenarios for our teenager. I’ve also thought about what I’d do if my employer demanded a return to the office and/or a return to business travel that I considered unsafe. I have no idea what will actually happen, but it gives me some comfort just to have run the scenarios in my head.

    • Anonymous

      I’m worried about it in a general way, but there’s nothing I can do about it so I try not to think about it too much. My office and my city seems to have run out of patience for shutdowns/WFH, and I have to take public transit to work. I’m hoping that my worries are unfounded.

    • AnonMPH

      I think it’s entirely possible that we see a variant-driven surge in the fall or winter, but my only planning/worrying around it is that I want to take advantage of the ability to socialize, do things in my city and travel while things are good. We don’t know what will happen later, but we know that we have low case-load now, and I know that I am well protected by the vaccine now. So I want to enjoy this summer and then we’ll see where things go.

  15. fallen

    do you have any favorite fancy/special occasion recipes (for dinner and/or cocktails)? trying to figure what to make my husband for his birthday! he likes steaks, lasagna ,cheese plates.

    • Anon

      Just did this – Wegmans for Angus ribeyes and jumbo tiger shrimp (marinate and skewer for grill), sautéed bok choy or favorite greens with garlic, sautéed crimini mushrooms, Italian bread, wine and ice cream cake from DQ for dessert. DH and DS want this menu every year.

    • Anon

      Ina’s recipe for turkey lasagna is insanely good. I served it to someone who lives in Italy and he said it’s as good as what he gets there.

    • NY CPA

      Beef Wellington. If he likes filet mignon, he should like a Beef Wellington. I liked Jamie Oliver’s recipe.

      • Flats Only

        Plus if you don’t want to cook from scratch the Williams Sonoma individual ones are great. They come in a pack of 4, so you can practice with one ahead of time, and then make the other three for dinner.

    • Senior Attorney

      I paged through this book over the weekend (as I was cruising through Anthropologie) and it looked like it had amazing cheese plate ideas: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XN8TPB1/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

      Also we are super into negronis at the moment: One (or two) part(s) gin, one part Campari, one part sweet vermouth, garnish with orange twist. We like to serve it in a rocks glass with a giant ice cube or sphere, but it’s also pretty up in a martini glass.

      • Anonymous

        I like two parts gin (or, even better, bourbon for a boulevardier), one part Campari, one part sweet vermouth. Less medicinal and cloyingly sweet than even proportions.

  16. Anonymous

    Last update on my posts about my affinity group for early career women that resulted in a woman who has been in the workforce for a long time feeling excluded. I took your advice, swallowed my annoyance at how she went straight to the VP to complain, and invited the woman who had complained to the next meeting. She called me 1:1, told me the group was “sexist, ageist, exclusionary, and antithetical to our DEI goals,” then said “it sounds like a great group” and “could I please send her the invite.” Then she didn’t come to the meeting. I give up. But I’m grateful I listened to you and extended the invite nevertheless. I also discussed the issues with the other members of the group (anonymously, of course) and everyone agreed that they definitely want to keep the group single-sex and that they find value in having the early career focus. We discussed how we could encourage others to start their own groups with the hope of having a really robust list of groups at our organization. I’m happy with how it turned out.

    Unrelated, but the woman who complained also complained about the recent hiring of an entry-level candidate (we ended up with someone graduating this month for a very junior role in our organization) and said that we “hadn’t interviewed anyone over 40.” No one over 40 applied. This is clearly a sensitive issue for her.

    • anonshmanon

      Thanks for the update. That surely sounds like there is some deep resentment that goes beyond your group. You tried.

    • Anon

      It sounds like she sees absolutely everything through the lens of age discrimination, or some other discrimination. And I get it that those are very real issues that many of us have faced. I have. But I recently met someone, in a social situation, who in the first several minutes of our acquaintance, went on a rant about being let go from her job due to ageism and sexism. After about ten minutes of her, I thought it might have been ageism and it might have been sexism, or it might have been because she is the human equivalent of nails on a chalkboard.

      Addressing the very real issues of ageism and sexism in a manner meant to be constructive is good. Lashing out is unproductive and dilutes the issue for those who are facing these issues. Your coworker sounds like she prefers the latter.

      • Anon

        “After about ten minutes of her, I thought it might have been ageism and it might have been sexism, or it might have been because she is the human equivalent of nails on a chalkboard.”

        I’ve had this experience quite a bit, many times in circumstances where someone has reached out to me asking me to help a person who is job-searching and “needs advice” on why they keep getting rejected. Within 5 minutes of talking with the person, I can identify that the problem is their attitude, demeanor, and lack of a filter between their brain and their mouth – nothing to do with their skills or experience. I am still working on an empathetic-yet-direct way to communicate to some of these folks that regardless of their qualifications, likeability and personality also matter to hiring managers. I do not believe in discriminating against people because of race, age, sex, native language, national origin, sexual orientation, gender identity, or any other “protected class” category that exists. Not hiring someone who is persistently and vocally negative, confrontational, a complainer, and views themselves as a perpetual victim is another matter. There is no law that says I have to hire someone who is almost assuredly going to make everyone else in the organization miserable through their attitude, behavior and actions. Some people haven’t figured that out.

        OP – I am not surprised your coworker didn’t show for the meeting you invited her to. I actually would have bet cash money on that outcome. It’s far easier to complain than it is to take action, and actually showing up to the meeting and engaging in a dialogue would require her to invest some of her time and energy into solving the problem. I have found most complainers aren’t too interested in that, when the rubber meets the road.

    • Anon

      I haven’t forgotten your original post and my overall impression of your stance is that you think ageism isn’t a thing. I’d encourage you to do some deeper thinking/reading on that with an open mind (not defensively) because I think you’d learn a lot. You’re not going to be young forever yourself. You don’t have to like this one older woman. But I think it’s problematic to exclude all older women.

      • anon

        Hmmm I got the impression from the initial post that the woman was excluded because she’s not a junior person and the group is meant for junior people. I didn’t get the impression that if a 40 year old was actually hired for a very junior role that she would not be included in the group

        • Anon

          I got that impression from many of the OP’s responses to comments on that thread. I do think some self examination would help here – it’s useful for all of us.

          • Anon

            OP’s responses on the original thread were a little off-putting. At the very least I think it was clear she doesn’t like this particular woman, which is fine, nobody has to like everybody. But we do have to be grown ups about it.

      • anon

        It’s for women who are early in their careers. I imagine they’d be open to including women over 40 who are new to the workforce, if there are any. Would you crash an intern event on the basis of ageism? Not everything needs to be for everyone at every point in their lives/careers.

        • Anonymous

          Absolutely – the group would 100% be open to older women who are new to the workforce. No question.

      • Anonymous

        I believe ageism exists, but that it is not present here. Our discussions are about whether to go to grad school, how to be taken seriously when you have little experience, how to advocate for your first raise, etc. The content isn’t relevant (and isn’t meant to be relevant) for everyone at our organization.

        • Anon

          Age (over 40) is a protected class. If you are running into this with one woman over 40 complaining to senior management that she and others in her class are excluded, you may helping your employer get sued for discrimination.

          When you say “we all talked about it and agreed it should only be early career people” (by which everyone knows early career means young – anyone with a brain would make that connection) imagine substituting the word white for early career. Early career people are not a protected class but people over 40, particularly women over 40, are, so it’s basically discrimination.

          You’re very defensive in all of your answers on this post and the prior one(s) so you probably won’t take this to heart, but you should, and someone needed to say it to you.

          • anon

            Age discrimination doesn’t mean that companies cannot have programming for junior people….I truly do not understand how a group designed to give/share advice with junior women is age discrimination? or is your argument that no group or programming can exist unless it (1) is geared to all employees or (2) only is geared toward a protected class? I’m not the OP by the way.

          • Anonymous

            It’s not age discrimination. Companies can absolutely have programming for junior people and it’s not even a company-sponsored event anyway, which was made clear. People are being obtuse.

          • Anon

            I didn’t read the original post or responses, but writing to say that early career doesn’t always imply youth. I’m mid-40s but early career because I recently earned a PhD. I go to all the early career events and mentoring things that are available in my professional space, and no one bats an eye. The clock resets in some career paths, regardless of age.

  17. Anonymous

    Recommendations for a romantic long weekend in Boston? Where to stay, what to do? We’re two 30-somethings who like beer, food, and history. No kids. Budget for a hotel room is about $500-600/night, it looks like there are some good options through my Amex in that price range but I’m not sure what area of town to target. Thanks!

    • Anon

      Stay – in the city: the neighborhoods you want are Back Bay or Beacon Hill….maybe Harvard Square (in Cambridge not Boston). If you’re able, the best way to experience Boston is on foot, staying in Back Bay or Beacon Hill is optimal for that.
      Stay – outside of city: Rockport, Gloucester, Newburyport along the water or Concord, Lexington for small town
      Do – in the city (can give others outside city if you’re interested): Walks along the river, dinner along the harbor, tea in one of the hotels, picnic in the Public Garden, swan boats in the Public Garden, outdoor beer garden at Owls Nest, or Nightshift brewery at Lovejoy Wharf or Trillium either in the greenway or the Time Out market in Fenway, if summer and long enough stay you can do Boston Harbor Islands or take the ferry down to Ptown at the end of the cape for a long day trip

      • Anonymous

        I posted this before, but I strongly recommend against staying at the Liberty hotel. It is a former prison and some of the rooms were actual cells. The decor has a creepy escape room vibe that turns what could have been a cool boutique hotel into the set of a tacky horror movie.

    • Anon

      We just stayed at the Intercontinental in the upgraded King and it was great. It was a corner room with views of the city, including the fire department. We didn’t hear sirens. We had a wonderful dinner at Oceanaire and Bostonia Public House. Oceanaire was fancy and Bostonia Public House was casual but trendy. There is also a great little garden brewery across from the Boston Harbor Hotel all close walking distance from the Intercontinental.

  18. Z

    A couple of weeks ago, I interviewed for a position I was very excited about. Today, I got the “we’re moving forward with other candidates” email, and saw that they re-posted the job listing on their website.
    So that stinks. Today really stinks.

    • pugsnbourbon

      Oh man, I am so sorry. That really stinks. When this happens to me I just tell myself wow, they are really bad at hiring and go on from there.

    • AFT

      I think job postings are often totally divorced from reality. I just emailed a former colleague about a position at her compnay, only to find the company had already hired and started a new person in that role and apparently reposted the job anyway? It is a bummer that it didn’t work out for you, but I’d ignore the reposting FWIW.

      • Monday

        +1. The posting process for my organization is a mystery to me. Jobs are posted incorrectly, not posted when they are open, and posted when they’re not open. It doesn’t seem like it would be that complicated, and yet.

        I’m sorry you didn’t get the job, but ignore the job posting as it may mean nothing at all.

    • anon

      I’m so sorry. I’m in a similar boat and it really stings when things like that happen. Hang in there and don’t give up.

    • Anon

      Ugh, that happened to me, and then LinkedIn kept recommending the job posting to me!! Totally sucks.

  19. Anon

    I’m half venting, half looking for advice with this post.

    My parents just turned 70 and they live in a city eight hours away from me. We’ve had enough conversations here about older parents for me to know that they’re not much different other people’s parents, in that they spend a lot of time going to the doctor and dealing with health problems, the vast majority of which are very minor. I talk to my mom about once a week and she’ll run down the doctor’s appointments they had that week and which ones are coming up. They seem to go through minor medical procedures about once a month or so. Every time my mom mentions they’re getting something done, I ask if she needs help, if I should come out there, etc. and she always says no. Which I believe because at 70 they are still in pretty great shape and relatively active, etc. (We just saw them in April, after everyone had been vaccinated, and I confirmed in person they are still very mobile, mentally sharp, managing well, etc.) They are both chronic worriers (especially my mom) and I think that with little else to do, she over-fixates on any physical symptom they have, which leads them to seek out medical treatment for things that earlier in life they would have let go (plus, they are on Medicare now; no worries about insurance coverage).

    The problem I’m having is that if I don’t happen to remember that one of them is, say, getting a mole removed or going through some other kind of procedure, and text them the morning of the procedure and afterward, and then follow up with a phone call, I get snarky messages from my mom guilting me about not caring about their health. I care about their health, but they are literally at the doctor every other day and keeping track of their appointments is not something I care to make mental space for, on top of managing my career, my own and my family’s appointments, and the rest of our lives. My dad had a simple outpatient surgical procedure under local anesthetic yesterday – it was supposed to take about an hour – and at 5 p.m. I got a text message from my mother that read “IN CASE YOU CARE your dad’s procedure went fine, he is home now and everything went well, THANKS FOR ASKING.” I had just talked to her about the procedure last Sunday when I called, and she acted like it was no big deal (and certainly didn’t seem to me like something that warranted a lot of concern, the way a surgery with general anesthesia and a hospital stay would). Additionally, they still live in the same city as my brother, and could certainly call him for help if needed as he lives 7 hours closer to them than I do. But the implication seems to be that as their daughter, I’m the one who should be deeply invested in their welfare and checking in on them every 5 minutes as they go through multiple rounds of appointments and procedures to deal with their hangnails. (I’m being sarcastic.)

    I know I need better communication, to set boundaries, etc. and I am going to try, but I am both irritated and concerned. I am concerned that their lives are revolving around going to the doctor, and I am also concerned that if I tell them “look, I’m not going to drop everything and run over to where you are every time you have a mole removed” they won’t let me know if something really serious is going on (because my mom can be emotionally manipulative like that). I realize it is likely going to get more difficult to deal with some of their personality peccadilloes as they get older and I realize I need some coping strategies in place. Part of my concern is that when my grandparents got older and started having health problems, my mom was already retired (she was a teacher who put her 25 years in and quit working as soon as she was pension-eligible) and she helped them out a lot, at one point moving in with them temporarily. She’s said some things over the years that make me believe there’s an expectation I will do the same thing, which I will not, and I have tried to be clear and set boundaries about that. I love my parents, but we have had a pretty up-and-down relationship since I was a child, and I figured out a long time ago that our relationship is better when we live far away from each other. I want to help them but also am not going to drop out of my career, and my life, to take care of them. I’m happy to arrange home care, help them move into assisted living when it’s time, etc. but my mom seems to expect I will do what she did for her parents – become intimately involved in managing and supervising their health – and that’s not going to happen. Thanks for listening and I do appreciate any thoughts anyone has.

    • Mal

      My first thought reading your post is that you have two separate issues at present –
      1) The frustrating communication with your Mom re: current minor healthcare issues
      2) Your worries about how things will be when they’re older and if their health deteriorates
      I would mentally separate these two. If you feel it’s necessary and would be productive, have a specific conversation with your parents (maybe in person and with your siblings) about future care, including what they want/need and what you’re able/want to provide.
      For the current frustrations, I commiserate with you! My Mom and Dad both have communication tendencies that drive me batty, but it helped when I was able to come to terms with the fact that I couldn’t “fix” it or make it better myself – their personalities are what they are. It sounds like you’re doing your best to stay connected and offer help – that’s sometimes the best you can do! It’s impossible to foresee every need, especially if you have a worrier you’re dealing with. Sometimes it’s best for your (my) mental health to accept that I’ve done my best and I the expectation that I perfectly tiptoe around my mom’s feelings is a losing proposition, and also a really stressful one!

    • JustmeintheSouth

      As a person now “in charge” of my 90 year old parents ( 3 siblings I live closest)- I know how hard this is. My Mom and Dad did really well until they hit 85 or so and then lots of issues…mostly minor. It is an honor to help them in their Super Senior years, and I am so lucky to have them here. However, I still struggle with the boundaries and communications.
      My thoughts: Talk to Mom and Dad soon about checking in once a week “I know you can handle the routine stuff, so I will call on .. let me know if you need help “. Emphasize your busy life. If a scheduled call day helps them or you set it. Try to get them to talk about things other than the medical stuff and ask them for advice when you can—(they have a lifetime of knowledge about so many things, and probably are not asked very often.) And I advise talking to your brother about checking in too. Any help he gives will be great. Make sure you give yourself “kudos” when you deal with a difficult conversation with them and Celebrate the wonderful interactions… It is a challenge having aging parents, and a good problem to have.

    • Anon

      I don’t know but I’m interesting in hearing thoughts from others as I’m in a similar boat. My mom lived half the country away from my grandma (with both of my uncles within an hour of Grandma) and yet she did that same managing/supervising for Grandma because she also stopped working early on. She expects the same from me, from half a country away, for her. But I both can’t and don’t want to do that. I’m the primary breadwinner so can’t stop working at age 50, plus my kids are smaller (she had me at age 19; I had my kids at 36) so I’m still dealing with kid issues as well. I’m not going to take PTO and pull my kids out of school so we can travel 1500 miles one way and sit with her during minor outpatient procedures.

      I know there’s the sandwich generation for women trying to take care of both, but there’s also the angle of breaking the cycle of daughter expectations. She took care of her mom and expects me to take care of her. I feel like an awful daughter because my mom is suffering the brunt of these broken expectations, but she refuses to listen to me set boundaries and tries emotional manipulation to get me to do it anyway.

      • Anon

        OP here, and I feel this so hard. My mom has very set expectations about what it means for someone to be a “good daughter,” which were seeded into her by her family. I have tried, as gently as I know how, to explain to her that I’m not encumbered by that emotional baggage and that the only person I allow to judge me is me. If she doesn’t think I am being a “good daughter,” that’s unfortunate but I am not going to change my goals or expectations for my life to fit her idea of what they should be. I know this because we’ve talked about it, but part of the problem is that she was a teacher, and was perfectly fine being a teacher and quitting in her 50s, and so she really just doesn’t get what it’s like to work in CorpAm and be on a career ladder and not want to climb off of it to do eldercare. Add in that I don’t have a pension waiting for me – whatever I have when I retire will be there because I saved it from money I’m making now – and that we are trying to offer our son more help with college than my husband and I got, which was basically being told “good luck,” and we had to figure everything else out ourselves. My parents don’t understand why we are saving money for our kid’s college (“he would learn a lot by figuring it out on his own, just like you did”) or why we “need to work so much” to save for retirement, which just widens the gulf between us.

        • Anon

          I’m mid-30s, have similar worries about the future with my mom (although some years ahead) and often think about how my mom was the guilt-ridden and duty-bound daughter. In her case, she took care of first her mom (when her dad was still alive but couldn’t really keep up) and then nearly a decade later her dad, both of whom had dementia. I was young then but I remember her sacrifices, can imagine the isolation and trauma she must have experienced, and also can see how she did not have any boundaries with her parents not only pre-illness (she never once decided where to go to dinner when we went as a group, her opinions were totally ignored, my grandparents would show up out of the blue whenever they wanted and stay as long as they wanted – sometimes weeks??) and during the illness (couldn’t do anything to remove my granddad’s drivers license when he had dementia and was a danger to himself and others winding up in different states). I do get the vibe that my mom expects the same kind of silent obedience but after seeing what she went through, I did not think what she experienced was ok and I do not think I am capable of, let alone willing, to do exactly the same. I do want to be there for my mom, but as an emotional support not wrangler in chief. Does anyone know if ‘wrangler in chief’ – like a personal assistant or admin – is an actual job? Because that would be great to know in advance

    • Anonymous

      Just put an alert on your calendar and text them? It sounds like you parents want you to show you care about them. So do it, they are your parents. Just schedule it like any other task. Putting a reminder on your calendar and sending a quick text is way easier than going to see them in person, which it doesn’t sound like they are asking you to do.

      • Senior Attorney

        I agree that’s the path of least resistance. Probably a lot easier than dealing with the blowback if you don’t.

      • over 60 but still a child in parent's eyes

        I have a slightly different situation, but with my one remaining parent I’ve found it helpful to schedule two calls a week with the understanding that that’s when I’ll catch up. Yes stuff happens on other days but so far nothing serious enough to warrant panic. I picked times when I rarely have meetings so I can stick to the schedule pretty reliably. The security of knowing that I will call seems to outweigh the occasional unhappiness that I’m not more available (opposite side of the country).

      • Anonymous

        This is what I do. I also have a note in my phone with a list of standard useful inquiries so the text literally takes less than 30 seconds – ‘How was your appointment with Dr. Jones today?’ ‘Just headed into a meeting but let me know when Dad’s procedure is done and how it went.’ etc.

        I text because it encourages them to use text and it’s much easier to fit in a quick text than a long phone call.

        They don’t have a lot going on in their lives so they want to know that you are thinking about them and care about them.

        • Anon

          “They don’t have a lot going on in their lives so they want to know that you are thinking about them and care about them.”

          I do care about them, but I have a lot more things to think about on a daily basis than whether or not their ingrown toenail removal went well. I want them to care about me and it’s nice to know they’re thinking about me, but would only let them know if the toenail removal went sideways and needed help (even if it was just commiseration).

          Additionally, I view the condition that “they don’t have a lot going on in their lives” as a life choice for them that I refuse to be responsible for. As I said above, they are healthy and in great shape for their age, and are capable of traveling, volunteering, visiting family, and engaging in all kinds of activities other healthy seniors their age engage in (and all that’s been suggested to them ad nauseum). They’ve chosen to limit their lives to what they’re currently living. Given what people have said here in the past about how we have to let our older adult parents who are compos mentis make their own choices and live with those choices, I feel like this is a choice they’ve made that they need to live with, and not make it my problem.

          I’ll just say it: I love my parents but they are no longer the emotional center of my life; that space is dedicated to my husband and my son. I only have so much time and emotional bandwidth and what I have to spend mostly goes to them. I like the idea of pre-scheduled calls (I am only willing to do one a week) so they know when I will be checking in, but putting every single medical thing they do into the calendar so I can text them about it is a bridge too far for me (although I appreciate the suggestion and that it works for some people).

          At the end of the day I think a big part of it is I don’t want to have that much contact with my parents, which I realize is not the warmest-fuzziest thing to say, but it’s the truth. They’re good people, but we have little in common and don’t really understand each other. They were not the greatest parents and there’s a lot of revisionist history they’ve employed to obviate that now. If I had enough in common with them and got along with them well enough that I could be in contact with them multiple times a week and not have that drive me crazy, I wouldn’t live 8 hours away from them and be intent on maintaining that distance.

          • Senior Attorney

            I totally get that. My husband is their age and good grief! He’s still working and riding his bike scores of miles a week! We laugh and say we are “active seniors!”

            So in that case you’re just going to have to work on not letting their guilting get to you. I think the regular check-ins will help.

          • Digby

            Are you my sister? Either of us could have written this. If I got that text, I would probably respond with “Thanks for the update; glad it went well! Talk to you Thursday!” and ignore the passive-aggression in my mother’s text. It’s easier not to engage, and it’s easier to pretend the relationship is pleasant.

            I’m with you – I try to check in with them, but there’s no way I’ll do it often enough or in the right ways to make them happy, so I do what I can and try to ignore the rest.

          • Anonymous

            I don’t calendar everything – I set a reminder in my phone that says ‘text mom re derm appt’ or whatever.

            I wasn’t implying you don’t care about your parents but I also don’t think it’s making you ‘responsible’ for their choices if you communicate in a way that speaks to their love language (texts re dr appts.) But to each their own – I hate talking on the phone so a weekly scheduled phone call feels much more stifling to me than a quick daily text at my convenience.

          • Anon

            SA and Digby (and all others who have commented), I do just want to say “thank you” for giving me the space to type all of this out and in the process of that, think through some things. And also say some things that I had barely admitted to my own self. I think Digby’s strategy of “do what I can and ignore the complaints about what I’m not doing” is probably going to be the best way to go. Without writing a novel about my whole life with my parents, so much of the dynamic with me and my mom is that she has always felt we should have a closer relationship, but I’m not closer with her because of erratic behavior and emotional neglect and abuse I was subjected to when I was a kid, some of which continued into my adulthood. She’s my mom and I love her but we will never have a “besties” relationship like some people have with their moms, and I can’t change that. I can’t give her what she wants, so I might as well give what I can and stop guilting myself for not feeling what I just can’t feel. I appreciate everyone’s thoughts and advice.

    • anon

      I could have written a good half of your post from my own experience, except I’m probably younger than you are (32). Even in my late 20s, I was getting interrupted during the workday with texts and calls about my parents’ health, the neighbors’ health, the cat’s health. The breaking point was either when my mother claimed my father likely had brain cancer (spoiler: he did not) and I spent two hours crying in my biglaw office or when my mother gave me the silent treatment for a month after I didn’t ask how the cat’s blood tests went.

      I’ve done the scheduled weekly calls a lot of posters suggest. They work to some extent, but did not prevent either of the above instances from happening. The weekly calls also did not prevent my parents from alienating others/exacerbating their isolation. When I started getting repeated suggestions that I give them five figure amounts of money and/or moving in next door to a million dollar house I cannot afford a mere 5+ years from law school graduation, I gave up calling. If your parents are like mine, the demands will just escalate sooner or later. No amount of logic or discussion will sway them, and a weekly phone call won’t keep them happy.

      I wish I had advice, but the only thing that lets me stay employed and living on my own terms is to walk away. I wish you the best of luck.

    • Serafina

      In the case of the snarky messages, can you let it roll off your back? Respond with, “Glad to hear it went well!”
      If your mom wants to bring her expectations up more explicitly then you can have a longer convo on expectations/boundaries. But it sounds like you would probably be fine with your mom texting you updates if they weren’t trying to induce guilt.

  20. Anonymous

    I can’t decide how I feel about friends that never take a turn to host. (This is a pre covid problem that’s popping back up). We are friends with a group of couples and tend to be the only ones to ever take a turn to host along with one other couple. Two couples are always happy to come and eat and hang out etc but never take a turn. Sometimes I’d like to just invite the one couple who also host (partly as it would be nice to have a smaller cheaper evening!) but I know I’d feel bad if the others didn’t invite us if it was the other way around? Though I think it’s because we have ended up stuck always hanging out as one big group and that has set the tone.

    • Anon

      Do they bring food/drinks when they come? Or do they always show up empty-handed. We have friends who always host us because they have a kid and our home isn’t kid-proofed so it’s just easier to go there, but I always, always offer to bring something when we come (and they usually take me up on it). There could be a thousand reasons someone doesn’t want you at their house – it is small, the layout sucks, it’s cluttered or not clean, or they don’t feel like cleaning up on the weekend, or they have bodies under the bed, or whatever. Maybe just start asking them to bring something when you have them over – even if it’s dessert or salad.

      • Anon

        This. We host a ton for some friends but do not host for others because our house is decidedly not kid friendly, nor are our dogs. It is not worth the risk. We are happy to do all the work planning and bringing the meal but if kids are involved, we want to be at their child proofed, dog free home that has a playset.

      • Anonymous

        One couple are good about bringing a side, the other not so much. They both have plenty of space with dining rooms etc and often being kids or dogs to ours (we have neither) so I can see why that might be the problem for some but I don’t think it is here! It’s as much about putting the effort in to arrange it as the actual cost. They both also have friends outside this group over that they arrange.

    • Anonymous

      Ugh, I think that’s me in my friendships. It’s not because I don’t love hanging out and I’m not trying to mooch – I just honestly don’t like entertaining. If it’s a problem for you, I recommend either planning potlucks and asking the couple to bring specific items and food (I’m happy to pay and/or bring food!) or going out to eat. But yeah, I’m never going to want to have people over. It’s just not my thing.

      • anon

        +2 to all of this, and I feel bad about it, but that’s just how I am. I don’t really invite people to my house. When I do go to others’ homes, I try to be generous and bring flowers, wine, a side, etc. But I get that people might give me side eye for being like this.

      • Anon

        Same here. I have some residual trauma due to planning/hosting and then no one shows (+1 times) that has really colored my interest in hosting anything ever again. I always bring something, when invited (flowers if they say no to food/beverage) to someone else’s house.

        • Anon

          Oh man the no show events are bad. But you know what’s worse? Having one couple show up wondering where everyone else is. I cringe thinking about when it happened to me.

          But you know what, that other couple had a great time and we had tons of food so I guess it was OK. I think they felt bad for us, which is still embarrassing.

      • Not that Anne, the other Anne.

        Yup, that’s me. I will bring food and/or money and/or booze, but I don’t host. I don’t like it. For one thing, I like the ability to give my spouse the non-verbal “We’re going soon, right?”signal when I am done with people. :)

    • anonshmanon

      be careful what you wish for. I do not enjoy events hosted by people who are bad at hosting.

      • Shelle

        My husband and I still laugh about the couple who invited us spend the evening and stay overnight. It was bring your own food, booze, pillows, and blankets. And then they told us shortly before we headed there (a few hours drive) that their heat had gone out and they were hoping we or another couple could bring space heaters too! We’re all very close friends but that was another level of poor hosting!

    • Anon

      Entertain if you love doing it. Don’t entertain if you view it as some reciprocal social contract.

      I’ve been hosting since college, so I have 20 years of regular dinner parties talking here. I really enjoy hosting and choosing a menu and all that. That’s not fun for lots of people. Entertaining is my hobby; it’s not my husband’s (though he humors me, just like I humor him when he starts talking about whatever migratory bird just flew over) and it’s certainly not our friends’, who are into photography or their kids’ travel soccer or whatever. I host because I enjoy it. Do you know the Friends episode where, after the girls have moved into the guys’ apartment and Monica gets it all clean, she falls asleep during her party saying, “I’m always the hostess?” I legit fell asleep in the guest room during one of my first grown-up parties when I was 22 after working so hard to get it ready ha.

      As I’ve gotten older, I’ve had NO problem outright giving people assignments – “Can I bring anything?” “Yes, actually, could you bring a couple bottles of red? Thank you so much!” or “Would you mind picking up a couple big bags of Tostitos? I’m making this really great dip. Thank you!” Only one time in 20 years has anyone looked startled or put out when I gave them such an assignment, and it was when I asked a new neighbor if she’d bring whatever alcoholic she wanted to drink, and she sort of sputtered for a moment before saying yes, and it belatedly occurred to me that she may not have been a drinker, so I’ve been careful about assigning alcohol ever since. I think people enjoy the opportunity to contribute something because they know they aren’t likely to have you over next week to repay the favor, so this way it feels like they aren’t just eating your food for free, which can feel strange depending on the dynamics.

      • AFT

        agreed. Also, accept that some people are “the friends who are a good time at game night but don’t host” or “the people who happily include us in a group event but don’t really do one-on-one time.” No need to keep score…

      • Senior Attorney

        Yep. We are the hosts in our friend group and although I sometimes miss the days when reciprocating was de rigueur, everything Anon at 11:36 says is spot on. Do it because it pleases you, and don’t be shy about asking people to contribute, and try to let the fleeting twinges of resentment pass on by.

      • Anon

        I would like to be invited to your house so that I can talk to your husband about migratory birds. I’m the lone #BirdNerd in my friend group.

        You sound like a lovely, gracious host. Good for you.

    • Hostess with the Mostest

      During quarantine my pod rotated to a few people’s houses for get-togethers, but mostly another couple and I bore the brunt of hosting. Some of our pod had roommates or small apartments or lived in the ‘burbs, etc., so they didn’t really have an option to host. Eventually I suggested to my non-hosting friends that they could host at my place – i.e., they could provide the food or handle the set-up/clean-up, so that way I wasn’t always the one having to do everything. As we’re heading into summer and I’m expecting to host a lot more since I have a pool, I’ve already been clear that the grill is there for people to use (which I will not be manning) and I have a dedicated booze fridge that everyone else can stock and use. It’s not perfect, but I think it will stop me from feeling resentful or taken advantage of.

    • Anony

      I rarely, if ever, host friends or family for two reasons – 1) my house is small and really not set up for entertaining and 2) this is definitely a ‘me’ problem but I’m embarrassed/ashamed that I’ve owned my house for 9 years and still haven’t renovated parts of it (the upstairs bathroom needs a full gut, the kitchen needs serious love, I have a leaking window in dining room). It’s an older house and never feels ‘clean’ to me, even though I do clean. I completely understand that this is a me problem and most people wouldn’t even notice but I just don’t like people here.

      That being said, if you invite me over, I will bring whatever you want, I will help clean up, I will show up early and prep/serve/occupy your kids, I will do whatever I can to help you host – you just need to say the word!

    • anon

      I never host because my house sucks! It’s too small and the layout makes no sense. I’d literally rather eat in the park with friends than invite more than 1 person over. With that in mind I ALWAYS bring awesome food or drinks and games!

      • anon2

        Yep. I don’t offer to host anymore for the following reasons: (1) my house is not conducive to indoor or outdoor entertaing; (2) I am the farthest out from the rest of the local group; (3) I am the only one who is single and childfree, so it makes sense for me to go elsewhere vs. the larger groups rounding everyone and everything up to come to me; (4) I am vegan and I don’t drink, so while I would be happy to buy alcohol for people, I’m not buying meat, etc., and if I host, I don’t want my guests to have to bring things (I always, however, bring my own food to other gatherings and do NOT expect to be accomodated although my friends usual do because they are great friends). I have offered in the past and no one has taken me up on it so why would I keep offering?

        This is not a scorecard – host if you want to host, don’t host if you are keeping score.

    • Abby

      I am you. Love to host, host majority of the time, and for a long time got frustrated that I was spending so much money without it ever being reciprocated. If they don’t offer to bring items, which it sounds like it’s hit or miss, change the next event you host so you have to ask. For instance, we’ve done a fondue night and I told each couple to bring the dipping items and I’d provide the cheese. Or for the summer provide the meat, and ask people to bring a side and drinks. I always have backup drinks and sides in case we run out, but I’ve learned to use my words and just ask them.

    • OP

      Thanks all for the thoughts so far! I do enjoy hosting and don’t think of it as ‘reciprocal’ but it’s partly we have got in a habit of big group things of 8 people and sometimes I’d like to just invite 2 people over but feel obliged to have everyone? It’s always doing it for 8 that I think is making me full put out that not everyone takes a turn. I can see why people say they don’t host and the reasons but I think I’d like to just turn up sometimes too! Without cleaning and prepping for a whole group. I guess the answer is just invite smaller numbers but I feel bad excluding people.

      • Senior Attorney

        OMG Hubby and I are dipping our toes back in with one couple at a time and it is SO MUCH EASIER!! Definitely get over feeling bad and normalize having 2 guests at a time! Who knows? Maybe that will embolden some of them to reciprocate if it’s not “8 for dinner or nothing!”

      • Anon

        It sounds like you came here looking for people to say “those people suck! Don’t invite them over!” So that you felt better about not inviting them.

        But you don’t have to think someone sucks in order not to invite them to a smaller gathering. You can still like people who don’t host and host them occasionally (and try to be the bigger person and not keep score) and still have smaller gatherings.

        You asked the wrong question, really.

      • Anon

        Aww. Monica Gellar here ;) I very much remember that feeling. But like SA said, it’s very freeing to entertain in small groups!

      • Senior Attorney

        Yes and the way you don’t exclude people is to make sure the invitations are pretty evenly distributed over time.

    • Anon

      We actually quit having large parties because almost no one ever reciprocated; we had basically become the “party house” and people just assumed if there was a gathering, we would host it. After we had our son I basically retired from being the party-thrower, and have only emerged out of retirement a few times to host smaller gatherings. When I do host, I look at it as, this is a gift I am giving to people, to provide food and drinks and a place for people to get together. When I host without an expectation of reciprocity (or even contribution, as I’ve had some bad experiences with what people chose to contribute left to their own devices), I enjoy myself a lot more. And then the key is, I don’t host more often than I feel I can without getting resentful. A couple of times friends have dropped hints about wanting to have a party and wanting me to host at my house, and if that’s not a gift I feel like giving at that particular time I just say “sorry, no can do.” Either they end up having the gathering somewhere else (a couple of times it’s been in a reserved area at a restaurant, which I think is brilliant and absolutely the way to go so no one feels burdened, although expensive), or the gathering doesn’t happen. And life goes on.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t like hosting, but I am happy to bring any extra food you ask, or even be your delivery pickup person on the way to your house! It’s so much easier when the host tells me to bring a specific thing instead of just “whatever you like.” Or if you need help in the kitchen or putting out plates, happy to help with that as well. Or I am just more of meeting at restaurants (prepandemic) and will do all the research and reservations type of person.

      (Part of this I think for me is because I grew up in a tiny city apartment and now live in one myself, so my parents never really hosted any of their friends at our place and it just never really occurred to me that I should host people as an adult?)

    • Anon

      I think you’re being petty. Do you enjoy their company and generally like them? Then invite them. If you don’t like them, then don’t.

      But if the reason you don’t like them is because you’re keeping some kind of tit for tat scorebook in your head, that’s petty. It’s like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. It only hurts you.

      • Anon

        I agree that this is the kind of behavior that only hurts you. If you’re going to resent them then absolutely don’t invite them. It’ll be better for everyone involved.

    • Anon

      I live between different members of my larger friend group so I end up being the meeting spot for everyone. I don’t mind it at all. People usually bring something so the burden is not entirely on me (I never ask them to but they offer) and I end up having a great time.

      I don’t care that my friend of fifteen years never has us to her place. She is a self-described slob. I have seen her apartment once and that is fine. I don’t need to be sticking my nose into her embarrassment and shame because of my mental scorepad about who has had whom over and when. I love my friend and I love her for reasons other than hosting me at her home.

      Really when you think about it, that is such a small thing to judge people for. Aren’t your true friends more to you than a living room or a backyard and some food on the table?

    • anon

      You are allowed to hang out one-on-one with another couple and not invite all 8 people every time! If I took that approach, I’d never host because that’s just a lot to manage. Where I sometimes get stuck is feeling like if I’m not the organizer, then nothing is going to happen, but I’ve sort of accepted that as the “price of admission” for that particular friend group. I’m a ringleader, but they’re the life of the party. We all have our roles to play.

  21. everyday bag

    I’m looking for an everyday bag – shoulder bag / tote – for running errands, going to appointments etc… I want it light (?nylon) and would love it to look cute/chic. Would like it to be sturdy, so no tiny shoulder straps. Not a backback. Not a diaper bag or computer bag per se.

    I strongly dislike the Longchamp Pliage, so nothing that looks like that.

    Any ideas?

      • everyday bag

        Thanks for the suggestion. Lovely bag, but I think I want to go lighter/easier to clean.

        The last tote I bought was by this LA designer recommended on this board, and it’s a beautiful felt based bag. Super light, and amazingly has some structure from carefully placed leather elements, but not practical if I want to be able to quickly wipe it down. So I want something a little more durable, yet light.

      • everyday bag

        Thanks for this suggestion – not familiar to me at all. I’ll take a look.

      • Anom

        I’m not familiar with this brand but it looks interesting! My weekend bags have to be big enough to carry DD’s epipen case.

      • Anon at 12:37

        The quality on these is very high y’all! I have an antitheft tote/backpack for travel and a regular tote for regular days, and I’m really impressed with the quality and utility of them.

    • Serafina

      I have an older version of the Tumi Voyageur Everyday tote that I loved and used for everything. Super light, carries a lot, sturdy, polished enough to take into the office but also casual enough for errands/appointments etc.
      I got mine on sale, but I’ve gotten so much use out of it that full price would have been worth it.

  22. Anonymous

    Quick work-email question I feel like I should know the answer to – how would you all respond when someone says in passing by email that they hadn’t responded earlier in the day due to being at a funeral (and it’s not clear whether it’s someone close to them). Do you all respond you’re sorry for their loss and then continue with the rest of the email? It seems a little weird to me to do that when I don’t know the nature of their relationship, but also weird to ignore it.

    • anon

      That’s what I would do. A quick blurb to acknowledge and then move on to the subject of the email.

    • Anonymous

      I’m sorry for your loss. Thank your for your email. Substantive response.

    • Anon

      “I’m sorry for your loss” is the default empathetic response; doesn’t matter who they lost or the circumstances. I feel like it’s weird not to acknowledge a loss when someone mentions it, but have also had multiple people tell me “thank you so much for saying that, most people haven’t said anything.” Those kinds of little gestures go a long way in work relationships, IME.

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