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This jacket checks a lot of boxes for me: vibrant, jewel-tone color; great structural details; and a slight, flattering flounce. Wear it zipped for more formal feeling, or unzipped for a cool, moto-jacket-type vibe. This would look great paired with a sheath in a neutral color or with a navy skirt for a suit-type look without a full suit.
This jacket doesn’t appear to have any coordinating pieces, but if you like the color, these pants are available in the same color, but a different fabric.
The jacket is $126, marked down from $180, and available in regular sizes 00–18 and petite sizes 00–14. Flounce-Front Suit Jacket
Macy's has a plus-size option that's only $39 and comes in sizes 1X–3X.
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
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Anon
That jacket is amazing.
It’s also $83 today.
Anom
Love it, too! Too bad it would just accentuate my bust way more than necessary.
Anon
Yes, I was thinking it would flop all weird on my chest and below.
Senior Attorney
Same here. Love the color, though.
SSJD
I am going to order this beautiful jacket! Any advice on sizing?
Vicky Austin
It’s gorgeous! I’m very tempted, but Christmas is coming…
anne-on
So pretty! Sadly I have a closet full of blazers that are barely being worn, I can’t justify another one.
Tea/Coffee
This! If I thought there was ever a chance that I would wear blazers frequently enough… even though I’m in the office several days/week, at this point even my super old school boss is showing up in jeans and tshirts. Lovely though. Maybe we can find a sweater blazer version?!
emeralds
It’s gorgeous! The kind of piece that makes me wish I wore blazers for anything but interviews.
LaurenB
I’m seeing a lot of that color these days. What would you call it — dark teal, perhaps?
Can those of you who work in government (esp federal government) provide some perspective on the transition story I am hearing? It is my understanding that the head of General Services Administration is supposed to sign paperwork officially enabling government officials to talk to their incoming successors and do all the myriad things that need to be done so that the next administration can hit the ground running. Now I understand the head of this is a Trump appointee refusing to do so thus delaying transition efforts. Can individual agencies (run by people who actually love this country!) just ignore her and begin to document and take the appropriate action steps? How fearful should I be that Trump is scorching the earth and forcing Biden to start off ineptly because his people won’t be up to speed? I don’t have a context for this. Was there a similar delay in the Bush/Gore situation and did that impede Bush’s getting up to speed? (Leave aside jokes about Bush — I mean the overall federal bureaucracy.) Thank you!
Vicky Austin
Peacock blue?
Senior Attorney
I’m de4finitely going to call it Peacock Blue.
Anon
You have first hand experience!
Senior Attorney
Exactly!!
Anon
Bingo. I have always called this color peac0ck. When I was a kid I used to draw elaborate dresses and my favorite combinations included this color.
anne-on
To your last point, yes there was a similar delay for Bush, and yes it was called out by many in government as a reason why credible threats around Isis weren’t spotted and addressed sooner (not saying it’s the only reason for the attacks in 2001, but it didn’t help). Republicans who are all ‘law and order’ and worried about terrorism should be aware of that and commit to a peaceful and orderly transition of power but party over country apparently.
Seventh. Sister
The delay didn’t help with 9/11, but 20 years ago most people didn’t have half of the capacity to work at home or meet via Zoom that they do today.
But it’s definitely irritating.
anonshmanon
What I see from most Republicans is not so much agreement on the voter fraud allegations but a tenor of ‘it’s the rule of law and if you believe that things were conducted improperly, you have a right to a closer look’. Once the current round of lawsuits and is over (and the deadline to pay the fee for any requested recounts passes without the Trump campaign paying), I expect things to move on.
Realist
I think that’s the politically correct thing they’re saying out loud, but when you’re looking at bundles of <200 votes, nowhere near the margin, you’re just prolonging it. Meanwhile there are trump supporters getting riled up that this really has been stolen.
Anon
They are 100% intentionally riling up the base on this.
Anon
They are fundraising based on this and they’re not going to stop until they have to because $
Anonymous
Michael Lewis’s “The Fifth Risk” is a good account of the failed Obama-Trump transition. In that case, the transition failed because the Trump campaign was thoroughly unprepared to move into governing and demonstrated disdain for the process and government generally. I recommend it as it gives an explanation of what is meant to happen.
PolyD
That was a very good book. And to its credit, the Bush II administration decided to step up and develop the best transition procedures possible.
I really do not understand why so many Americans are so in thrall to Trump.
LaurenB
Thank you for the book reco; I remember hearing that various Obama officials were ready to give their briefings to their successor, and there was no one there.
AnonMPH
This is absolutely what is happening. It is really scary that no one is standing up to Trump to tell him that this is over. Stating that “everything serious should be investigated” when nothing serious happened is just pandering to Trump’s inability to accept that he lost. While yes, there was a delay in 2000, at that time the legal challenges actually did have the possibility of changing enough votes to make a difference in the outcome. That is ABSOLUTELY not the case right now.
LaurenB
2000 feels so different. We were talking literally a handful of votes difference and a ballot that was widely acknowledged to be confusing. Am I correct in assuming that once GWB was decided as the winner, that the Clinton administration handled the transition professionally? I remember hearing some kerfluffle about how the Clinton administration took the “W” off keyboards, which I suppose at worst is a silly prank?
Anonymous
Prussian blue.
Interview Look
I have a zoom interview tomorrow for an associate position at a law firm. Typically, i would go traditional for an interview like this with skirt suit and light colored blouse. Do the same rules apply for my zoom interview? It feels a bit silly to be in full suit while sitting in my home office, but also that I won’t feel the same confidence without the full look.
Anonymous
I am wearing full suits for zoom interviews. I think it’s appropriate and puts me in the right mindset.
Cat
No need for a light colored blouse (only the most old-school of firms would care), but I’d definitely wear a jacket.
Anon
IANAL, but I’d wear whatever color blouse makes you look best on Zoom. For me, a light color would not be good.
anon8
Yes, I would still dress traditionally. There was a similar post on Ask A Manager today from an interviewer who interviewed someone who dressed a bit too casually.
Anonymity
I work at a law firm and everyone we have interviewed in last full months had been in a suit, so it may feel silly but won’t look silly to the firm.
Anonymous
My only advice, and this depends on the jacket you’re wearing, is I lean towards higher neckline options for Zoom. Since you only see shoulders-ish up, V-necks don’t have the same look as they do in real life. I like turtle necks, mock necks, and similar neck lines.
Anon
As someone who recently interviewed candidates for an associate equivalent at a large accounting firm, I can say all the candidates wore suits. I would have noticed if they hadn’t. I think you should wear a suit. In general, I’d rather err on the side of overdressed than underdressed in a professional environment. I think the point on v-necks is a good one. Also, test what you look like on screen before the interview to make sure everything looks right.
Anon
I would wear a darker blouse. My experience with web cams has been that clothing appears far more transparent than it does IRL.
Anon
Wear the suit. Also, a friend of mine has always done a lot of hiring on Zoom, even in the Before Times. She actually always asks the candidate to stand up to make sure they are wearing pants… about half the time they’re not. I would wear the full suit and not chance it.
Cat
your friend is kind of awful for doing that, FWIW.
Anon
Your friend is horrifying. I would decline any offer she ultimately gave me to work with her and would consider what options I had against her employer.
Anon
Your friend is dumb.
cbackson
How does she get people to stand up? Like, I cannot imagine either doing that or wanting to do that (or caring TBH). And if I were a candidate and someone asked me to stand and I could tell that was why I would 100% not want to take that job.
I’m actually hiring right now and I cannot in a million years imagine doing that. (Everyone I interview is wearing jackets, btw, although with slightly more casual tops generally.)
Senior Attorney
WTF? Good lord that’s horrible and your friend is a bad person.
Anon
That’s ableist AF. What if someone can’t easily stand?
Anon
Yeah… I’ve been wearing compression pants a lot during WFH since it helps blood and oxygen make it to my brain and improves my alertness, given my medical conditions. I would personally wear proper compression hose under a skirt for an interview, but my experience has been that medical grade compression hose is more expensive by a lot of $$, not well covered by insurance, and also fragile (my pair has a big tear in it currently). I hate the idea of humiliating someone who chose to wear cheaper medical support garments that happen to look like lazy PJ leggings because they wanted to be in a sharp frame of mind for their interview and figured it would be out of frame.
The Lone Ranger
That incredibly smacks of ableism. I would shut the interview down pronto.
Anon
Your friend sounds like she has a mean streak. Yuck
grapefruit
Wow, what a jerk.
Anon for this
Semi-regular poster here going anon for this, because it’s pandemic-fatigue related and I hope the Hive responds with compassion.
I’m single and I live alone, far from family (closest family is in California, the rest are in Asia, and I’m on the East Coast US). I have some local friends, but one of my friends is planning to temporarily relocate for the winter and the others have young kids/will be having young kids. With the holiday season and winter coming, how am I supposed to not give up being vigilant and start feeling “over” this?
There are times when I have a sudden thought of “if this goes on and we don’t get a handle on the pandemic in the US in the coming months, I’m probably more likely to not be here next year because of mental health reasons than getting covid-19.” The spring was hard, but many of us were thinking okay, this will be over in the fall/winter, plus summer is coming so we can socialize safely outdoors. And I have gone hiking with friends nearly every weekend with friends in the summer and the fall, but with winter arriving, who knows if I’ll be able to keep up with it? I’m mostly an introvert, but living alone for this long and WFHing is going to start messing up my mental health at some point for this long. I miss my family. I miss being able to be in groups just to have small bits of real face to face interaction, not over a screen. I’ve actually gone into the office a few times (masked of course) and just felt better sitting at my desk and knowing there are other people around, even if I don’t want to interact with them. I’m not high risk, so I’ve been flirting with the idea of going back to yoga class in person, even if it is indoors. If it’s going to be a cold, dark, lonely winter, and I know it’s going to hit many of my depression triggers, it feels like I’m sacrificing my mental/emotional health for the physical health of other people? I don’t have the option of temporarily relocating to be near family for my job. A lot of it requires quick responses, so need to be in the same time zone.
Anyway, I know we’re all struggling in our various ways. Not really sure what advice I’m looking for, other than probably therapy, or taking some more physical health risks vs mental health risks? (Like going into the office more often over the winter?) Thanks for reading if you’ve gotten this far.
Anonymous
You need to talk to your doctor about mental health treatment. The pandemic isn’t going away and your family isn’t moving closer, but your coping skills can change and make it more tolerable. It’s a really hard time and there is no shame in getting some extra support right now. Medication and/or therapy can really help. When it’s safe to do so again (because right now it’s really, truly not), I hope you will be able to socialize more too.
Go for it
Agreed.
I’ll add that people in my area ~super cold NE ~ go out no matter what to trails & mountains. Weather does not have stop you if you wear warm clothing. The winter sun is revitalizing.
Anonymous
I should have added that in my response too – def get the gear you need for winter hiking. That’s an easy fix.
Bonnie Kate
Yes, getting the right winter clothing was a game changer for me enjoying winter. It always seemed like a waste of money since I wasn’t going outside in the winter, but once I got it I did go outside in the winter because I was warm enough. Spend the money, it’s worth it.
Anon
Absolutely — it sounds like it’s time for some professional assistance. I’ve had an easier time than normal finding tele-health appointments, whereas pre-pandemic I struggled to find a psychiatrist and therapist taking new patients.
anne-on
Yes, please talk to your doctor about your mental health. During my yearly physical mine suggested increasing my anxiety medication dose slightly and within about a week I was already feeling SO much better. That, and forcing myself to do yoga, and getting outside as much as I can at lunch (bright sunlight!) helps a lot.
Is there a reason you can’t build small, ‘safe’ (ish) interactions into your day? Like getting a daily cup of coffee/tea, or picking up lunch from a local store? Making a hiking date with your friends? Running more errands like grocery shopping or pharmacy runs in person vs. ordering online? Getting up, getting dressed, and getting a cup of coffee or breakfast every day has had a shockingly big impact on my day – it makes it feel more like a ‘regular’ workday and seeing people outside my house/saying hello to other customers/etc. is really nice.
Anon
Here are some good books on mental resilience that might be good reads for you while you work through your mental health needs with your doctor: https://positivepsychology.com/resilience-books/
Anonymous
I also live alone. Here are things I do: go to work from time to time (I don’t have to but I love the change of pace), go out and get a cup of tea in the mornings at my local cafe, get takeout at the same places and pick it up in person, take indoor masked group fitness classes, go to Target, eat outside, get a drink outside and read, browse bookstores. I also have 4 friends I see inside without masks. And I started taking Wellbutrin and seeing a therapist.
On here you get the sense that if you are not maximally locked down at all times you love killing old people. This isn’t true and it isn’t how most people behave.
Anonymous
So did you actually change anything about your life? You aren’t “maximally locked down” – you’re not locked down at all. We can’t stop you but your advice is irresponsible to OP.
Anonymous
? Her fitness classes are masked which is relevant to OP who mentioned that she was skipping yoga. She’s only seeing 4 friends and only doing take out. That doesn’t sounds life nothing in her life has changed.
Curious
I don’t think this is true. All of this is currently allowed in my state, which is not currently a hot spot, and it’s extremely beneficial to mental health. It still would represent a life very restricted from my former life (no colleagues, no clothes shopping, no restaurants, no travel).
anon
+1
Anonymous
I don’t understand the thought process, but I can’t make you both care about 120k new cases a day. I also can’t fathom how giving up Target runs and browsing bookstores is considered a real sacrifice and hardship. However, I am really starting to understand how another poster said that for some women, all the shopping and manicures are part of their identity. Maybe that’s why little changes are so hard.
anon
You’re ridiculous. Going to Target with a mask at an odd hour is not getting anyone coronavirus. I just went yesterday, everyone was wearing a mask, and I wasn’t within six feet of anyone the whole time. There’s no reason to stop doing things that won’t get you coronavirus.
anon
I live in a place with a low case count and very high mask compliance, both indoors and out. I am making my choices based on that reality.
Anon
“I don’t understand the thought process, but I can’t make you both care about 120k new cases a day. I also can’t fathom how giving up Target runs and browsing bookstores is considered a real sacrifice and hardship. However, I am really starting to understand how another poster said that for some women, all the shopping and manicures are part of their identity. Maybe that’s why little changes are so hard.”
Some of us actually take pride in our appearance, enjoy getting out of our houses periodically, and have meaningful relationships with other human beings that we try to nurture and maintain. Believe me, after seeing all the histrionic, shaming posts from posters like you over the last several months, I realize there are several of you here who cannot say the same, and almost seem proud of it. I think Anonymous at 9:29 is doing an excellent job of balancing risk and her need to engage with the world, which, news flash: most normal human beings have a need to engage with the world. Not you, I understand that. I hope the view is excellent from up there on your high horse. Maybe contemplate this: if you don’t die of coronavirus, but you do die alone, with few people mourning you or even noticing your absence, will you still feel your life was a success?
Anonymous
@10:57 you can have all of those things without a manicure. No worries. Please show us examples in this thread of being locked down so tightly that … these bad things will happen.
LaurenB
This is not irresponsible at all. She’s not going to bars and partying, she’s not inviting 20 people over her house for a game of Twister — she is doing things that are well within public health guidelines. There’s nothing wrong with getting a cup of tea at a cafe and walking around with it. What, she’s within a few feet of the barista for a minute and they are both wearing masks? How is that appreciably different from being within a few feet of the grocery store clerk? I’ve been to both the library and bookstores, appropriately masked/distanced, etc. I’m in a state where we take it pretty seriously but all of these things are allowed. The group fitness classes I think you have to take on a case-by-case basis – I’m less comfortable with spin classes but perfectly fine with the barre class I mentioned that’s a handful of people spread out in a gym.
Sane
I think this makes sense – you’ve been cautious but done stuff. I have literally not been inside a building for more than 2 minutes with people I don’t live with, always been masked and stayed 6 feet away even outdoors, but I still have done stuff compared to the insane, unscientific people on this board.
Anon
This is basically what I’ve been doing too, minus the office visits (we’re not allowed inside the building). I’ve also started dating again and that has been a wonderful distraction.
Anonymous
Yeah I’m not opposed to dating either just unsuccessful! If my coworker can live with 4 children and a wife and all those kids do in person school and in person sports, no, I do not need to see no one at all.
Anon
Ok. But comparing yourself to your coworker doesn’t make taking unnecessary risks ok. That’s hopefully a throwaway remark and not your actual benchmark.
Anon
Different Anon here but I don’t find it unnecessary or risky.
anon
I don’t know if I have any great advice, but I want to validate that your feelings are very real and understandable. The mental health aspect is real and severe. Your office is a good example of being around people without being near people’s bubbles. Yoga seems much lower risk than other gym activities, especially if you mask up. Continue to look for those opportunities. It also may help to take up a hobby of some kind, something that you can get really immersed in during the long, dark evenings. Keep hiking, even if you don’t always have a hiking buddy. (I mean, avoid the questionable areas where you’d really want a second person around should you get injured, but there’s lots of middle ground there.) I hear you on virtual meetups. I personally find them terrible substitutes for the real thing and often leave me feeling MORE lonely. Phone calls, however, do not affect me that way. So go old-school if you need to. :)
Anonymous
The vaccine news means that if we avoid relaxing our vigilance over the winter, we might actually be able to stop the virus. Don’t give up now! There is hope!
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/10/opinion/coronavirus-vaccine.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
No Face
I have spent time socializing outdoors and playing with my kids in weather that I would have never even considered but for the pandemic. I am going to bundle the eff up and go for walks a lot these winter.
When it is prohibitively cold, are you able to visit with a friend, all fully masked, for an hour or so indoors? Doing that once a week would help. Do you have any friends you can fully “pod” with for the winter?
Sometimes I go to the office for a couple of hours and it helps. Very few people around, all in masks. YMMV.
Anonymous
You say you need to be in the same time zone as your job, but you seem to be able to do it remotely. Is there really no way of setting up a “remote time zone?” In my office, we had an office manager move from the west coast to the east coast. We were desperate to keep her and she was willing to work east coast hours on the west coast– sure, she was up super early but got to live with her family on the west coast while keeping her east coast job.
I’ve had to move out of my condo and in with my family of origin 6 hours away for mental health reasons. I’m not at high risk from the pandemic but I was starting to feel like an ad for an anti-depressant from the isolation stemming from protecting others. It sucks. All the options suck.
Anon
I was going to suggest this. I have one colleague who went home to visit family on a completely different continent and is still just keeping working hours in our time zone, even though it means he’s working very strange hours in his current time zone. Working east coast hours on the west coast isn’t that bad, especially if it’s just for a three month stint or whatever. I’d go home and stay with your family for a while.
Vicky Austin
I would too. It sounds like you need to be around people, OP. There’s no shame in that. It can be done safely.
anonyK
I was also going to suggest doing this. You might have weird hours, but you won’t be alone, plus, depending what part of CA, you might get some sun.
Over this too
Assess the risks and consider if it is possible to visit your family in California or Asia. Some airlines are still flying even internationally. I found some advice on the NY Times for students who will be going back to their families for Thanksgiving, it is applicable for travelling to see family too. I also live alone in Europe and have struggled with seasonal depression in the colder months. The isolation brought by COVID has made things even harder this year, you are not wrong to notice the impact on your mental health.
Anonymous
Hugs. Snowshoeing is great for winter weather and doable even for friends with smaller kids. Cross country skiing or winter trail running/hiking might be other options. Keep in touch with your friends with kids. I generally assume my childless friends are not interested in our kid-centric outdoor activities but would happy to have them along if they don’t think it’s too boring.
Depending on how close you are with your friends – have you thought about joining your pod/bubble? DH’s single co-worker does this. She was WFH, no family nearby and having a super hard time so she bubbled with close friends.
Anonymous
I’d go back to in person yoga. I helped me and I took a lower level class so I could do it just fine while wearing a mask. The positive energy space was so important to my mental health.
Bonnie Kate
+1 – good advice for a lower level class so the breathing isn’t as intense. Also yin or restorative classes are going to be much less heavy breathing/easier with a mask. I can’t imagine doing a power yoga class right now in person which has been holding me back but this was a great reminder to look at the other yoga classes at my favorite studio. In person yoga classes and long coffee chats with friends afterwards is one of the biggest things I miss during the pandemic.
nom
+1 to a lower level or a “restorative” type practice.
One of the things that affects the risk level of any indoor activity (especially exercise) is the volume, frequency, and velocity of exhalations. A slower-paced, more “meditative” yoga class will be less risky than a higher-energy, more aerobic one. Plus it’s more comfortable to do a slower practice while masked. Number of participants, overall room size, and spacing between people also affect risk as well, so keep those in mind as you look for a class.
Any indoor group activity will have some risk, but not all activities are the same level of risk. I think a harm reduction approach is really helpful.
Anon
also want to validate your feelings. that it is ok to feel that way and many other people are feeling that way too. i also wanted to thank you for thinking about the physical health of society, in addition to your own physical and mental health. as someone else on here recently used the metaphor, that it is starting to feel like one of those group projects where one person does all the work, which it definitely is. definitely seek therapy/meds if that would help you. maybe one of those light lamps would help? as well as thinking of some activities/goals for the winter. i don’t know where you are on the east coast, as temps vary wildly from Boston to DC, but hike when you can, you could also try something new like snow shoeing or ice skating. people might disagree with this, but my dad who has been very very cautious (my mom passed away right before covid hit so he is still getting used to being alone) and his friends who have been equally cautious, are starting to do indoor meetups at someone’s home with masks, 6+ feet apart. sometimes they eat dinner as well, each bringing their own take out/food, and sit on opposite ends of a long table, and wear masks whenever they aren’t eating, so the time without masks is minimal. it does involve some risk obviously, but it seems fairly low risk and is a risk they are comfortable taking.
Anonymous
This attitude is why we’re in the mess we’re in, and why things are going to get much worse after the holidays. No one is entitled to an easy life free of challenges. Things stink for everyone. Living alone is hard. Being cooped up with your family without any escape is hard. Giving up all of your activities and travel is hard. If you are having so much trouble coping that you can’t handle daily life, the answer isn’t to just give up and put yourself and the rest of us at risk of death and permanent disability. It’s to seek out mental health treatment.
Anonymous
I think a lot of us need to start repeating “I can do hard things.” Don’t expect it to be easy. You should 100% seek out the mental health treatment you need to get to that point successfully.
Brunette Elle Woods
We can do hard things… I thought of that probably every day last week.
LaurenB
But this is overly dramatic. There’s a lot of gray in between “party all the time” and “never leave the apartment except to accept grocery deliveries.” There are things that the poster can do that are safe that enhance her mental health — go for walks with friends, grab a cup of coffee at a cafe and walk around, and perhaps this yoga class. It is not the 4 people attending the yoga class in a room meant to hold 30 who are spreading Covid, you know.
Curious
I find we are in alignment today, LaurenB. Interesting that we both live in states (WA, IL) with governors who have taken the pandemic seriously and invested heavily in communication and explaining what’s safe. Maybe we are benefitting from that.
Anonymous
No, you don’t know that. Contact tracing has all but disappeared because the case counts are too high. We do not actually know that yoga classes are innocent. You can make a guess about the level of risk, but at a time when major, legitimate health organizations are sounding the alarm about the role of very small family gatherings in spreading COVID, you simply cannot say with any confidence that a small yoga class with four strangers is A-OK.
Curious
Can you share a source? That’s new information that might change my point of view.
Anonymous
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/31/health/covid-contact-tracing-tests.html
Curious
Sorry — I meant for the piece about small family gatherings?
Anonymous
You can easily Google it and find a dozen sources, Curious.
LaurenB
The issue with the small family gatherings is the physical closeness and lack of masks, you know. I’m at a lot more risk if I have family gatherings where we are all sitting on the sofa together not wearing masks than I am if I go to a yoga class where there are literally 4 people in a huge room and I am never within 12 feet of anyone else and masks stay on the entire time.
anon
But those small family gatherings were most likely not masked and not separated. How is this hard to understand? Everyone says that we should all be wearing masks because when both people are wearing them, we are 99% safe. And then you expect us to believe that going places with everyone masked is super dangerous and the cause of this pandemic? Come on.
Curious
I was just curious what your were looking at. The contract tracing article is about the US, whereas I’m taking my data mostly from Asian and European countries where it was more successful, so the US case doesn’t change my mind. Was curious which major health groups were warning about family gatherings, whether they were masked, whether they were indoor or outdoor, and how long they were. I can Google but it’s helpful to see exactly what you’re looking at.
LaurenB
In my area, we indeed do know that. There is an organization for all the gyms/fitness clubs/yoga studios/etc. and they monitor the spread. For example, we know that there was a local OrangeTheory that had ~ 16 cases. Well, OT is one of the kinds of workouts that’s inherently higher risk just due to the nature of it, so it’s not a surprise. However, they’ve found no spreading from the yoga, pilates, barre, etc. It may be too cold at this point, but the poster might have benefited from yoga-in-the-park types of classes.
Anon
That is true about contact tracing in my state, for sure.
Curious
Gently, I think that this is black and white thinking, which can be characteristic of anxiety. You can take the pandemic seriously, prevent community spread, and still go to Target occasionally. There are nuances to the isolation rules, and they are based on scientific evidence of what works to decrease the R value of the pandemic and dramatically reduce risk. These nuances are exceedingly important to keeping people like OP alive. 10% of Americans are experiencing suicidal thoughts. That’s also a pandemic, and understanding that there is healthy space between “I see tens of people weekly unmasked” and “I see four with a mask on” is crucial to resolving both pandemics.
Anonymous
If people are having suicidal thoughts, they need mental health care and compassion. Why is it so taboo to acknowledge that mental health care is the answer?
Curious
Of course it’s important — I’m sorry if I came across as not believing that. I live with GAD and have resolved PTSD and depression through therapy and meds. My medical team emphasizes that part of mental health care is getting sunshine, exercise, and human contact. SSRIs and therapy can help you get to a point where you can get out of bed to do those things, but you still need to be able to do them! My very small work from home household of two sees two other friends outdoors for a meal once every two weeks, and the difference in my ability to tackle life the days after seeing others is extraordinary. I don’t know if I would go to yoga, but finding a way to get human contact and sunshine will be an important part of OP’s mental health plan. Like other posters have said, maybe that means going to live with relatives; maybe it means going for a walk and coffee or snowshoeing with a friend. But it sounds like many are saying not to leave the apartment except to accept deliveries, and that’s pretty extreme.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
Nobody is saying to only accept deliveries. Inappropriately angry people are making that accusation & being really mean about it though.
anon
It’s not taboo, but maybe you don’t understand what “mental health care” is? It’s not just medicating people so that they can sustain their excessively restrictive isolation. It’s not a therapist cheerleading someone for 60 mins a week and hoping that some how makes it all better.
Anon
Plenty of mental health care in the before times involved medicating people so they could endure otherwise unsustainable school and work environments while cheerleading them on for 60 minutes a week.
Anonymous
Yeah, people here are always recommending medication and therapy to help people deal with normal stress reactions to unsustainable work and living situations.
anon
….and that’s not good. If anyone posted here saying that they were living with an unsustainable situation but all they were getting from their therapist was a recommendation to try meds and power through without changing anything we’d advise them to find a new therapist.
Anonymous
OP is already doing more than what science says is safe.
Anonymous
No. No she is not. This is out of control misinformation. It is dangerous and inappropriate.
Anon
It is absolutely anxiety-based behavior. Unfortunately we have a number of people here who come here and dump out their emotional purse through posts like the one from Anonymous at 9:56, instead of seeking outlets or assistance elsewhere. Anonymous at 9:56 needs to take her own advice.
Elodie
This. Frankly, when I talk with my American family, I’m really confused by the fact no one seems to have a sense of relative risk, and, that society as a whole doesn’t seem to have the same understanding. I’ve got relatives still disinfecting groceries, and scared to let a 10 year old garden outdoors with grandma, and others that are socializing with many people a week, unmasked! Where I live, I think if you randomly sampled people on the street, they’d be able to agree on what’s really low, medium, and high risk activities. And as the second wave has started again, the gov has put restrictions in place to eliminating the high risk activities, to preserve the low risk/socially important ones (e,g, school!) as long as possible… In case anyone is curious, this is what we think here (in a country that has a second wave now, but kept number very very low all summer/early fall), going from very low, to very high: outdoor activities, going to store where everyone is wearing a mask, work meeting where everyone is 1 m apart wearing a mask, schools where kids where masks, car ride with masks, dinner party with no masks, long car ride with no masks. To try to get our second wave under control, they’ve restricted evening socializing, since they traced that it was family/friend parties where most people were getting sick.
Curious
Thanks, Elodie.
Anon
It sounds like you have a government that takes COVID seriously and doesn’t spend their time spreading misinformation about it.
Anonymous
without a mask
anon
And no legit mental health professional is going to recommend total lockdown for a person struggling with isolation, enforced by shaming herself with messages like “take one step out the door and you’ll put yourself and the rest of the world at risk of death and permanent disability.”
Elodie
European here, so, slightly different perspective on guidelines. Here a lot of the countries are talking about the number of people you see a week, bubbles, and limiting each household to a certain number of external contacts. You seem like a very low risk for someone to add to their bubble – could you ask one of your friends if you could join her bubble, and then regularly interact with her and her family? My closet friend, her family, and me were a little group of 5 that socialized freely during the pandemic – none of us had high risk of introducing things (e.g. we weren’t seeing other people), and there’s little change in risk to society from us being a group of 5 or 4. Having some real life interaction is HUGE.
Anonymous
This. When our area opened up a little in the spring, first we were allowed to add 6 people to our immediate household. They explained that the difference between adding 6 and 10 people was quite significant. If you’re in a small group of people who are otherwise taking lots of precautions, it’s probably fine.
Anon
This. Find a bubble. We’re a family of 4 and have “bubbled” with our elderly neighbors so we can help them out logistically and emotionally. It’s a godsend to them to have my kids come talk while they clean the place, and it’s an even bigger godsend to send my kids over there while I run and get groceries for both our houses.
Also, on working remotely, I live in the US but worked with a German team for a while pre-Covid. I shifted my work hours so I was working 4am-noon, and there were no issues (other than how early I went to bed!). Shifting just three hours would be even easier to do if you wanted to move to the west coast, even temporarily. Your mental health is WORTH the slight inconvenience (to you and your boss).
Anon
This is really a nice thing to read- what a good group to bubble with.
Elodie
Also, go for walks outside with other friends, or, join them at the playground, soccer games, etc with their kids (assuming playground are open). (In my country, at least, outdoor activities are seen as very very low risk.)
LaurenB
If your yoga class is held in a large room with very few people attending, and they are practicing all the appropriate safety precautions, I think it’s a risk worth taking. I am personally taking a barre class that is being held in a gymnasium that has one of the new air filtering systems, there are maybe 10 of us so we are literally easily 12 feet or more away from one another at all times, and you’re only touching your own stuff (yoga mat, weights, etc.). The studio owner rented this gymnasium space because her own studio was too small to accommodate distancing. If I were you, I’d take the yoga class.
Anon
This is not the place for advice on this topic, it skews ultra conservative. You don’t need a doctor, you need your friends. There are safe ways to do that and it’s okay to find them.
Anonymous
Definitely not true on the skew on this board. To me, it skews “do whatever you want and ignore the deaths.” When we’re at the point when even hard-core GOP Utah has declared a state of emergency and a statewide mask mandate (a huge deal for such a red state), isn’t it time to stop going to Target?
Anonymous
I literally just don’t get it. I wear a mask every time I leave my house. When I go to Target, everyone there is wearing a mask and staying away from each other. Why should I stop going?
Anon
I think people just live in different places. Masks are very hit or miss where I live. Many people don’t wear masks at all, and they don’t worry about distance either. Lots of people who do wear masks wear them down on their chins or under their noses.
I also know people who are treating mask wearing as the same as quarantine (as in, they were contacted through contact tracing and advised to quarantine, so they keep going out, but with a mask).
Anonymous
My relatives who live in a deep red state say that no one wears masks, maybe 10-20% of people, while going to Target or anywhere else.
Anonymous
And even the people who are “wearing” masks are letting their noses hang out.
LaurenB
Well, it sure feels like the people who live in areas where there is low mask compliance think that going to Target is risky — and perhaps for their areas, it *is* risky, but that has nothing to do with areas with high mask compliance. I mean, I wouldn’t make it a habit of going daily for hours on end, but if I really needed a new “X,” I’d go to Target and get it and not fret that I was killing grandma.
Anon
Masks are not 100% effective. Masks, ventilation, distance, and time are all significant factors.
No matter what kind of HVAC target has, outdoors is far safer. Distance is important. Six feet is a minimum. And last, time. The shorter your exposure the better off you are.
Vicky Austin
No, it’s time to stop going to Target unmasked, which lots of people in Utah were doing. Masked Target runs are not putting anyone at undue risk of getting COVID.
Anonymous
Nope, you don’t know that. Contract tracing isn’t happening anymore because epidemiologists are too overwhelmed and cloth masks are not magical forcefields. It’s not the time for non-essential stuff and it’s just wild to me that people want to see their families, but then conclude that Target and everything else is okay too. When does it end?
anon
+1 bjillion
anon
“conclude that Target and everything else is okay” = strawman
LaurenB
Anonymous, you’re off the rails. “Target and everything else” — no. A judicious 20 minute visit to Target to pick up things — whether they are necessities or not — where everyone is masked and keeps distance is just not the same as the unmasked ACB Rose Garden event followed by an indoor reception where few wore masks.
Anon
It isn’t 100% safe. If you must go to target to feed your family then you take all precautions and do it as quickly as possible. But you don’t go to target and spend as much time browsing as possible because you need to get out of the house. And remember your mask protects others more than it protects you, so if you’re in one of these targets described above where mask compliance is low, you’re far better off not going.
Anonymous
It only skews conservative if you don’t trust the science. Plenty of reasonable solutions offered on the regular. The absence of ‘don’t wear a mask and DGAF about other people’ is not ‘conservative’. It’s rational.
Anonymous
Literally no one ever advocates for that. I’m being blamed for 100k cases because I go to target in a mask from time to time!
Anonymous
That’s a rational approach if you have an area with lots of people wearing masks. It is much more dangerous if only 10-20% of people are wearing masks so it very much depends on where you are and that nuance is lost in many of the conversations.
Anon
+1 My best friend is an infectious disease physician. She is very, very careful, and even she doesn’t go so far as some of the commenters here. Most of these folks enjoy judging and this is their big moment.
Anonie
Yes, I work in healthcare communications and am often in meetings with experts in this field. NOT ONE of them is as cloistered and conservative as many as on this board.
OP, my comment below is in moderation but I shared my perspective on mental health and isolation as someone who has struggled first-hand.
anon
Yeah, I feel like I’m being cautious, but some of the recommendations on this board are just nuts. Even the most conservative doctors in my area — leading experts, mind you — aren’t as restrictive as some of these posters.
LaurenB
Ha, I actually ran into an infectious disease doctor of my acquaintance at Target! (Hint: We said hello and exchanged a few pleasantries. We didn’t cough all over one another or hug / kiss. We had masks on, just like everybody else in the store, of course.)
Anon
The public health guidelines for slowing transmission and flattening the curve are an entirely different set of recommendations vs. the recommendations for “not personally contracting COVID19.” This is why the recommendations for high risk people are so different, why PPE is different from masks, etc.
Many communities aren’t achieving either goal, but I’m aware that I’m taking additional precautions aimed at “not personally getting the virus,” which no one needs to thank me for taking.
Anonymous
Can you provide an example? I don’t see any “nuts” recommendations on this thread and I can’t recall seeing any in the past few months. If your gripe is with posts that say to cut out non-essentials like bookstore browsing sessions, that’s conservative, but not “nuts” like “form your own plastic bubble to live in for the rest of your life” would be.
Anonie
Yes to Anon at 11:15! Anon at 11:35, off the top of my head: I have seen people on here scared to ride elevators during the pandemic, afraid to let their stepchild in their home, disinfecting all groceries/packages even after data has found this to be uneccesary, showering every time they return home, afraid to see friends when 6 feet apart and masked, advocating that it is selfish for single people to do anything except spend the holidays alone, advocating against visiting elderly relatives with rapidly progressing dementia…I could probably think of more.
Anonymous
Some of what you wrote is misleading – that person wasn’t afraid to ride elevators, it was concerned (not afraid) about riding an elevator with a stranger (possibly unmasked?). The person who was concerned about letting her stepchild in the home had a valid concern because the stepchild was partying at college. I don’t remember anyone talking about disinfecting groceries so can’t comment on that, but for holidays, it’s true that CDC and other entities are advising not to mix households then. I can’t say that I find that “nuts.”
Anonymous
Anon at 11:53, don’t forget “don’t get pregnant during a pandemic!”
anon
One that sticks out to me is that someone could visit her pregnant friend outside, masked, only if 10-20 feet apart. LIke how could you even hear each other?
Anonie
Anon at 12: Respectfully, I think “scared” versus “concerned” is mincing adjectives. I am 99% certain that the OP never said her stepson was partying…commentors embellished with that fact, if I am remembering correctly.
Anon at 12:11: Yes, it would be lots of shouting, I guess! Haha :)
Anonymous
+1 to anon at 11:35.
Anonymous
Yeah, I suppose it could be mincing adjectives, but I see a difference between “hey readers, would you be concerned about riding in the elevator with strangers….” and “omg guys, I haven’t left my house in three weeks and I’m running out of food because the elevator is too scary…” One is taking a reasonable precaution and getting some opinions and one is overly anxious.
Anonymous
The stepson was attending college, hanging out with a girlfriend, and spending time with his other parent’s family, which was not taking precautions.
Anon
Yes ot enjoying judging. These would be the hyperbolic comments that boil down to nothing but appeals to emotion, appeals to authority, and ad hominem attacks. Maybe some of them are just doing it for the natural high of moral superiority, but some of it seems so desperate that I take it as the last gasp of panic before they accept that they cannot control other people, and aren’t entitled to. Especially not through internet comments, for heaven’s sake. Different people will have different risk assessments, and indeed different conclusions regarding the moral implications of scientific evidence. Hurling accusations of “science denial” around is just what people do when they don’t feel up to actually defending their position. I take a very dim view of this behavior, as well as all the people demanding that OP practice “resilience.” That is one step away from “just stop being sad.”
OP, I hope you can reassess your activities and add some joy and socialization back into your life, in addition to talking to your doctor. Lifestyle changes may not be sufficient treatment, but they shouldn’t be dismissed when you are suffering as severely as it sounds. Someone made a great point above that a mental health pandemic exists now in addition to COVID; we need to acknowledge competing public health concerns that lockdowns have created (e.g. decreased vaccinations and disease screenings, increased substance abuse, increased domestic abuse, poverty and food insecurity, I could go on). If you’re going to be giving public health advice, it should be synthesized from a detailed analysis of the interactions between these various risks to society and the individual. Dismantling decades of progress destigmatizing mental health suffering by telling OP and 10% of America to suck it up is definitely not that.
Anonymous
Except that absolutely no one is telling OP to suck it up. They are telling her to get mental health treatment without judgment.
anonymous
Okay, they’re telling her to “get mental health treatment.” What exactly do you expect that to entail? “Mental health treatment” isn’t like getting an antibiotic for a UTI. You can’t just say “get mental health treatment” the same way you say “get a house cleaning service” to someone who works 70 hrs a week and needs to outsource. Therapy isn’t someone just saying words to you until you feel better. You can’t expect people to just try to medicate their way to happiness with their extreme social isolation. These are both tools, but it’s not compassionate or reasonable to expect her to get “mental health treatment” that will act as some kind of magic bullet that will make her feel better without addressing the underlying problem.
Anonymous
Last winter I went all in on the warm layers needed to walk in the cold and to snowshoe and was outside almost as much as during the summer. Also, is your state permitting outdoor dining? If so and you have the warm things you can sit outside at a cafe or go to the rink and get cocoa and watch the skaters.
Anonie
I am so sorry.
I agree that you need to talk to your doctor right away about mental health treatments. I ALSO believe that you need to begin seeing at least some friends and family members at least some of the time. I suspect that some who are commenting that you should buckle up and stay isolated have never actually experienced depression and suicidal ideation severe enough that they have ever had reason to wonder if they would be alive in a year. As someone who has experienced this type of depression first-hand and combats it with a low-dose antidepressant and a strong support system, I especially struggled pre-anti-depressant and when I was single. I remember the pain you feel and the sense that your mind is attacking you from the inside. I work in healthcare communications and, though I skew less Covid-conservative than most on this site, I very much realize that this virus is real and serious. However, your chances of dying from suicide are statistically much higher than your chances of Covid. And suicide also has an arguable contagion factor.
Please call a doctor this week and schedule an in-person appointment. Then call 1 friend today and schedule an in-person hangout. You can sit 6 feet away from one another in order to observe best practices, but you need to see a friend in person and tell them how you are feeling.
AnonATL
It seems that being around people regularly is important for your mental health, and I think that is totally safe and doable! To me you have 2 different options here: move to be with family and work current timezone hours or do things in your current life to make it better for you.
Go to the office twice a week masked. Go to the grocery store masked. Continue your outdoor activities with friends during the winter and upgrade your gear. Unless you have very heavy snow, it shouldn’t require much.
See if one of your friends is interested in podding up for the winter. I would be willing to bet your friends with small kids would be happy to have a non-partner adult around periodically. I’m sure tired of being stuck in the house with just my husband and baby.
I would be more hesitant about group fitness, but that’s just me. If it’s important that you do group fitness classes, consider reducing risk elsewhere in your life.
Depending on your mental health history, it might be helpful to go on some sort of medicine in the short term especially if you already know of one that works well for you.
Good luck! Its a tough time for all of us, but we don’t have to win the misery olympics. There are plenty of safe ways you can improve your life this winter without increasing your risk dramatically. I’m starting to feel some hope with not only the president elect but the new vaccine news. Neither will be immediate fixes, but I have hope for the first time in a while.
AnonATL
ETA: I’m not suggesting you do all of these things simultaneously but pick a couple that are most important to you and feel appropriately safe. Like maybe don’t pod up with a family and go into the office regularly.
Anon
Absolutely discuss this with your doctor! That should be your first step.
While I agree that this is not the time to let up and we all need to be taking precautions as cases rise, it’s not an all or nothing. Some things I’ve been doing:
– Keep up your outdoor activities! There’s no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing! A hike in 30 degree weather isn’t as fun as when its 70, but it’s very doable!
– Get together in person with friends outdoors. Dress warmly, drink warm drinks, maybe seek out a place with a firepit or an outdoor heater. My friends and I do weekly stoop happy hours outdoors.
– Run your errands in person. Get a cup of coffee and walk around/go to the park. Sit in the park and just be around other humans.
Also to everyone who is freaking out about Target trips… a lot of us do some, if not all, grocery shopping at Target. Going to Target wearing a mask (all stores require masks where I am) is no more dangerous than going to Acme. Going to Target and Acme is fine. Target has a lot of necessary items (groceries, medicine, home repair items, etc) I’m not sure why Target is getting so much hate.
Anonymous
I don’t think anyone is freaking out about Target trips, so I don’t understand why people are raging about others discouraging them? I guess just because they’re angry?
Anon for this OP
OP here, thanks for all your thoughts/advice. Definitely looks like I’ll be trying to get some tele-health appointments for therapy and possibly go back on meds. Yes, I know there is nothing wrong with going back on meds but part of me feels like it’s “failing” (probably because of my cultural up bringing?) when I’ve been a few years off them. Also thanks for the push about temporarily relocating in with family – I may try to push management into letting me do it, as we’re usually a very butts in seat office pre-pandemic times.
Agreed there is a lot of gray between what commenters here do/say vs what’s actually happening in the real world, and looks like I can find some more stuff to do in the gray in addition to therapy – take a yoga class masked, go hiking in the winter but on easier trails, go into the office a bit more, go stock up at the last farmers’ markets of the year.
Anonymous
Literally there is zero reason to not go to a farmers market.
LaurenB
+1. I went to farmer’s markets; again, everyone was masked, everyone kept distanced, payment was done via Apple Pay so no contact unless you want to count the brief minute of passing a bag over, everyone had sanitizers, and it supported local farms/small businesses. I really think some of the hysterical people on here are not thinking about areas where everyone wears masks, and imagining crowds of unmasked people. Those are Trump rallies, not farmer’s markets in blue states.
Pep
If you like animals, is it possible that you can either adopt a pet or just foster one for the winter? Having a dog has been a godsend to me during the times in my life when I’ve wrestled with depression.
Anonymous
It’s silly, but I think even a stuffed animal helps.
Trixie
I live in New England, and I plan to hike all winter. Just get the clothing and boots, and go for it. Sometimes I go to the nearby Mall and sit indoors, mask on, and read or bring my laptop just to have a change of scene. It is not crowded, is a huge space, and has good people watching opportunities. hugs to you.
Anon
I don’t know if this will help or hurt your state of mind but I looked at the google map of cases nationwide. I saw that we are exponentially higher than March. I considered what I would risk in March and why my risk tolerance has changed and realized it wasn’t because things were safer now but just because of fatigue. But then I drilled down to my actual state and things are only marginally worse in my state than they were in March.
I’m doing things that I consider necessities that I deferred in March but aren’t deferring now – dental appts, specialist appts for non-urgent things (tendonitis), vet appts, hair cut. I also found a place that is doing pedicures super safely. Pedicures aren’t about fun for me. After I broke a toe and got a nasty skin infection, I get an ingrown nail if I don’t get a pedicure at least twice/year. I don’t know what they do that I can’t do but even my podiatrist said to keep getting one every six months. The place I go has pedicures in the back of a salon and has only 3 chairs. Your party gets the whole room so you can be one or 3. They also allow 30 mins between appts for cleaning of said room and they have an air purifier. Everyone wears masks.
Anonymous
Gently, calling BS on your pedicure comment. You can take care of your feet at home (not to mention, how would twice a year pedicures help ingrown toenails when they grow all the time?). Women and men have been doing that for years.
Anon
I’m sure her podiatrist knows more about this than you do, 12:30 PM.
Anonymous
I’m shocked a podiatrist would recommend it on a medical basis! Infections from salons are super common.
Anon
Fellow single WFHer here. I totally relate. Socializing outside masked one-on-one with a trusted friend has saved me. I do one hour-long walk a week with a friend, always outdoor and masked. I always feel better when we’re moving and chatting. But that’s about the extent of my in-person activities.
For me, virtual group gatherings centered around a common interest have been huge. I’ve been trying to go to virtual conferences, workshops, lectures, and classes. Often the hosts will find a way to have breakout rooms so you can chat with strangers (a big thing I miss about pre-pandemic life). It’s 100% safe but it feels like I’m getting social interaction. I do one with a hobby group I like and another with a political action group. I found a lot of comfort in seeing the same faces regularly and feeling like I was expanding my circle and being in a group safely.
I also do virtual “hobby hangs” with a non-local friend. She knits and I draw. It really helps to be able to take the pressure off of staring at each other and talking the whole time over Zoom.
I really enjoy virtually watching movies with friends. I like it because we feel connected but I don’t have to be “on” and I can do laundry or paint my nails. Same with virtually watching a TV show and texting with reactions.
I made a huge spreadsheet for myself of things I want to watch, eat, listen to, and read. Then I started building those things into my routine. I get delivery twice a week, partly to support local restaurants and partly because I love food and it’s so nice to not have to cook.
Getting big stacks of books from the library also makes me really happy. I try to read for an hour a night before bed and go totally screen-free. I’ve noticed that screens really add to my anxiety, even if it’s for a good reason like texting with a friend.
I had a great relationship with my therapist before the pandemic, which helps, but now we do weekly teletherapy over the phone. I always power walk while we do it. I feel SO MUCH BETTER just unloading all my thoughts on her and getting helpful feedback about how to process some of the darker emotions. I am also on a low dose of Zoloft, which I am sure helps me maintain my sanity. If you haven’t already, explore reaching out to a therapist.
All that said, I know it’s no substitute for in-person time. Are you sure there isn’t a way for you to do your job from another time zone? These are special circumstances and maybe you’d be able to find a workaround so you can be closer to family.
Sending you hugs and support.
Anonymous
I am a more “conservative” poster here and I think this all sounds great. You are a wonderful example of resilience, safety, adaptability, and balance. I hope everyone reads it and gets ideas!
Anon
Aw, you are so sweet! I definitely feel like I am losing my mind at times, don’t get me wrong. But what has saved me is focusing on all the things I CAN still do that are totally safe and still fun and interesting. Interesting is key. I used to travel often, hung out in coffeeshops and museums on weekends, and volunteered and went to group activities. I try to recreate those activities in safe ways and it has really helped!
I forgot to mention one other fun thing I discovered: a virtual writing hour at the National Portrait Gallery in DC. I LOVE this event if you are at all into writing. It’s free; you just have to sign up on EventBrite. Every Tuesday, you log into zoom and there is a prompt related to one of their portraits. This warm, wonderful host leads a discussion of the portrait’s history and then we all go on mute and write while looking at the portrait and listening to music that’s evocative of this era. And people come up with the most amazing writing in just 30 minutes! My stuff is never good; I really just go to listen to all the incredible output from others. It transports me to a different world and inspires me to read up on the person in question. It’s been Amelia Earhart and Andrew Carnegie at some of the ones I’ve attended.
Hang in there, OP! You will find a way to get through this tough time. Thinking of you and all the other single WFHers who are feeling isolated right now. It’s not easy, but we will make it through to the other side!
anon
She’s also a great example of living a boring af life. I tried this virtual crap in the early months but no thanks, I’ll take my chances outside of my home, in a mask, at a distance.
Anonymous
Hard disagree. The OP of that post is anything but boring – I, for one, am glad to see someone who can actually come up with safe, creative solutions instead of endlessly whining about having to make the most minor sacrifices.
anon
If not seeing anyone in person ever is a “minor” sacrifice, I’m sad for you.
Anonymous
Aw, and I’m sad for you that you think Target runs make you interesting.
anon
Lol I don’t understand this Target obsession but that’s probably because I don’t live in suburbia. I assure you there are many more safe activities out there than sniffing candles through a piece of cloth ;)
Anon
+1. This is not actually terribly creative because it’s what literally everyone did for the first couple of months before they *actually* got creative and found more satisfying safe activities.
Anon
What a rude comment. I do see friends outside for walks, as mentioned in the post. I was trying to be helpful to someone who was looking for ways to feel more connected. I’m not saying everyone has to do what I did, just suggesting some things that helped me.
Anonymous
It was really rude – don’t think of it again, OP! You’re awesome and you should ignore the petty haters.
AnonMPH
Being by yourself all the time is so hard! This is completely legitimate. Totally agree with other posters that you need to both try to get mental health help AND try to make the actual situation better. If you can work remotely but stay on your office time zone, that’s something to consider. My office is on the East Coast but we’ve had many colleagues move over the years and work remotely on the West Coast- they are still expected to work East Coast hours and they make that work. I would say, if you are considering that, just think about a) how much it would drive you crazy to wake up so early all the time/have a shifted schedule. 2) How much it would drive you crazy to live with family. You could think of just planning it for a month or so around the holidays, so that you’d have time to do a proper quarantine when you arrive (stay in an airbnb, don’t see anyone at all for two weeks except outdoors with masks), and then be around family for November/December, then come back to East Coast in Jan a bit refreshed on your socializing needs but also happy to have your space to yourself again.
If spending a while on the West Coast isn’t feasible, then you definitely need to find ways to keep up with socializing during winter where you are. I’m mid-Atlantic so winter temps are not as bad here, but echoing the others that people can and will still hike in winter, you just need to have the right gear and find friends with the right gear! I’m also leaning way in on buying a heat lamp, a fire pit, and will be mulling all the wine. I’m pretty conservative on COVID but I will sit in my back patio more than six feet away from a few friends while we all have our masks off for drinking, and I don’t plan to stop it until winter makes it truly terrible. Are there single friends you can pod with? Or is there one family that you’d want to make your pod?
Of the things on your list, indoor yoga probably seems riskiest to me, but I think small classes, not terribly high cardio, with masks seems doable.
I think we all need to keep in mind that the COVID situation is only going to get worse from here. Depending on location we may head into true second lock down. For me, that’s a reason to enjoy the pandemic safe activities we CAN do now, like outdoor activities, especially masked. People on this board need to lay off on saying that’s why cases are spiking/that’s what is going to cause the next lock down. Cases are spiking because people are seeing whoever they want, indoors without masks, and aren’t limiting their contacts nearly enough. If everyone did what the OP is discussing here, we would certainly not be seeing 125k+ cases per day in this country. As you can see further down this board, people are hosting 250 person weddings in Tennessee and guilting their family for not attending. THAT is why cases are soaring, not because the poor OP wants to go to yoga class with a couple of masked people.
Anon
I also have an MPH and do not agree that it’s safe to do indoor masked yoga classes. It’s not the highest-risk thing in the world, of course (yes, weddings are worse), but any scenario where you are mixing strangers in an indoor setting where people are breathing harder than normal is not safe in the vast majority of U.S. states at this time. lf you are going to go anyway, I suggest wearing a surgical or N95 mask, ensuring that the windows are open, and choosing an easy class where people aren’t breathing hard. Virtual classes are another option. They can actually be really fun! The other poster who mentioned that contact tracing isn’t happening right now is correct and we need to keep that in mind when we say things like “yoga classes aren’t causing COVID.”
AnonMPH
Agree. I wouldn’t personally do indoor gym activities of any type, it’s just not that important to me and I like doing yoga videos at home. But I think if I lived alone, never went into the office, was at low risk of severe COVID, and was limiting my other socializing (i.e. limited opportunities for me to spread to anyone) AND it was super important to me, I could see taking on that risk. We do have some evidence from Korea that a pilates class did not spread COVID while an aerobic/cardio one did, but we don’t have perfect info on where cases are being transmitted. It also matters what the current positivity rate and number of cases per 100,000 population is. All that to say, I still stand by that small yoga studios operating small, distanced classes that require everyone to stay masked is NOT what is driving our huge spike in cases. It just isn’t.
Anonymous
You can believe it, but there isn’t any evidence for it in the absence of contact tracing.
Anonymous
You can also believe it but choose not to recommend it to others because it lacks evidence & could harm them.
anon
I’m pretty sure yoga isn’t a widespread cause of spread given how few Americans exercise.
anon
I resumed yoga months ago and there have been zero outbreaks.
LaurenB
But again – you have to distinguish between yoga classes being held in states where Covid is considered a joke / hoax and nothing has changed, versus yoga classes being held in states where Covid is taken seriously and there are stringent health precautions that the owners are faithfully following.
All the studios around here have: Tons of signs about masking, markers on the floor for distancing, tons of sanitizer upon entry and exit, many things closed off (such as child care, showers), you have to bring your own mat/towel/etc versus use the studio’s equipment, etc. These small business owners are VERY strict about this bc they don’t want the bad P.R. of their place being a Covid hot spot. I recognize in some places the studios are run by fools who are lax and it’s all business as usual, but if that doesn’t describe the OP’s situation …
cbackson
I think…part of the challenge is determining what “safe” means. Is something “safe” only if it poses zero percent risk of COVID infection? Only 5%? Only 25%? I think that is the disconnect in a lot of these conversations – people actually have very different definitions of what it means to be “safe,” and so they end up talking past each other. We basically don’t have a shared agreement on what the acceptable level of risk is and so unless you’re in a state with a lot of mandatory restrictions, everyone is making their own judgement calls. And of course, we know people are VERY bad at weighing risks – like someone above said, many people think it’s safer now, but it actually isn’t. It’s just that for many people COVID was unfamiliar in the spring, and thus people gave the risk more weight; as the risk becomes familiar people start to discount it (kind of like how people generally don’t think about how unsafe it is to drive, or are much more scared of shark attacks than of bee stings).
It sometimes feels like this pandemic is a perfect storm from a human behavior perspective. It’s severe enough to be very dangerous, but mild enough for most patients that it doesn’t shock people into a sense of insecurity that prompts widespread self-regulation of behavior. Its most significant impacts are on people whose lives are given less value by society (older people, disabled/chronically ill people, POC). And it involves, potentially, long-term effects, which again, people are generally known to be crappy at analyzing.
What is risk
To OP. Lots of comments here that you can evaluate, but I wanted to say that you are not alone. Many of us live alone, work from home (alone), are not near family, and it SUCKS.
I think you need to evaluate the risks and decide where you are willing to increase risk and where you are willing to reduce risk (so you can increase in other places). This is where I have landed eight months in:
– I have one friend that I see indoors without a mask (but I know that she sometimes sees other people)
– I have two other friends that I eat outside with
– I have a few additional friends that I walk outside with masked about every six weeks
My gym doesn’t have classes yet, so not an option, but I would consider it for sanity.
Going to drive 15 hours to see family for the holidays and we agreed to not see anyone else in close proximity two weeks prior to meeting (groceries and visits to the park are allowed).
I think your last question of physical health risks versus mental health risks is where you need to weigh your personal options and priorities. We can’t answer for you (but I couldn’t pod in my parent’s house for that long).
Cb
Audiobook recommendations? Any particular narrators I should keep an eye out for? I’ve always preferred to read in print but tired eyes / podcast fatigue has made me re-think audiobooks lately. I’ve enjoyed This Mournable Body, Homeland Elegies (narrated by the author) and A Golden Age. Generally like quite literary fiction, works in translation are always a bonus.
Pompom
Not a new suggestion, but the audio version of All the Light We Cannot See was incredible. It was narrated by a man, who convincingly and beautifully voiced both Marie-Laure and Werner, a young girl and boy respectively.
Curious
Oh cool. Loved this book.
anon
Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil!
Anon
I would recommend Colin Cotterill, if you don’t mind a little mystery and a little paranormal mixed into good literature. The Laotian and French names pronounced correctly add something to the audiobook.
Anon
I’m pretty excited for my Thanksgiving drive because I downloaded David Sedaris’ Best of collection that was just released. His short stories really make me laugh.
Friday
I really enjoyed the narrator’s voices in the audiobook version of A Confederacy of Dunces. The book itself is on my top 5 favorite books of all time.
Anon
Such a good book! Happy to hear it has a good narrator. Also a good recommendation for literary fiction.
Anon
The Splendid and the Vile by Erik Larson was a fantastic audiobook, I highly recommend it! Good combination of writing that translates very well into oral story telling and good narrating.
Anonie
Trevor Noah’s Born a Crime! I don’t often like audio books because I am picky about the narrator’s reading voice, but his is lovely.
Anon
The Splendid and the Vile by Erik Larson. My other comment is in mod because I used a word to describe speaking that can also be used for certain gardening activities. Oops!
Anon Probate Atty
There are so many good ones. The Vanishing Half narrated by Shayna Small, Never Let Me Go narrated by Rosalyn Landor, America’s First Daughter narrated by Cassandra Campbell were a few recent favorites. Then there are the classics: A Tree Grows in Brooklyn narr. by Kate Burton, the Handmaid’s Tale narr. by Claire Danes (particularly good) and Pride by Prejudice narr. by Rosamund Pike (also extremely good).
Ellen
Where is everyone today? I over-slept and just got into work! I hope all is well with the hive and that they are still social distancing now that there is a vaccine! Dad says it will NOT be available to us for mabye 6 months, so it is NOT a good idea for us to kiss any man (even through masks) until after we get vaccinated. Morover, it is even safer to have P in V s-x (tho not face to face) until next summer. I do not miss that at all, considering how bad my Ex’s breathe is! PTOOEY!
Anonymous
I really miss in person bra fittings. My boobs are just not getting the support they need. And the Reddit calculator everyone loves has not worked.
Anon
I just got a reduction, and I am going to Nordstrom for a fitting. I can’t do it myself.
Anonymous
+1 Nordstrom has great brands and good service. I went from a 34B to a 30D – I’ve been refit at two independent shops since and they always end up the same. So much more comfortable.
anon
No advice, but I personally think that Reddit calculator is … well, not right for me. In no way is my band size that small, not unless I want to feel like I’m wearing a vice grip.
Anonymous
Thank youuuuuuuuu yes this is exactly the problem. Sure. I can wedge a 34 band onto my body. But I’m left with pain and deep indentations on my sides and wind up never wearing those bras.
Anon
That’s my problem with any kind of bra fitting calcuator, etc – the band size is always so small! I need to be able to breathe!
anon a mouse
I had better luck measuring the band lying down. Gravity changed my, um, circumference in a meaningful way.
Anon
Bands stretch over time which is why most tools have you go with the tighter measurement over time. Signs of a too-big band is the back riding up, being able to see a sliver of the bottom of your breasts when you raise your arms, straps digging in to your shoulders, needing the shoulder straps tightened all the time, and sometimes (though this is a combo cup/band issue) the gore of the bra standing away from the body rather than “tacking” to your chest.
If you get a new bra and the band feels tight, it should. I usually grab both ends of a new bra and stretch the band a bit before I wear it the first few times. You can also wear a band extender for a while, though if you give yourself more than an inch it would change the fit of the bra.
Anon
Yeah, that calculator doesn’t work for me either. The band sizes it recommends don’t fit with what major manufacturer recommend.
Anon
My band size is supposed to be 28, and it’s true that those bras look better on me. But since WFH I’ve switched to “bralettes”, and I can’t imagine going back to the 28s!
Anon
My reaction to this post was “who is wearing normal bras during the pandemic?” LOL – I switched right to the non-flattering lounge bras. Holds them up enough so they don’t hurt but aren’t exactly flattering and I’m ok with that.
kag
Add two band sizes up (i.e. +10cm) to a band and deduce two cup sizes. As in, 70I becomes 80G (standard European size). If you’re not used to tight bras, then maybe get an in-between bra to get used to a snugger fit: add three band sizes up (compared to the Reddit calculator, i.e. +15cm) and deduce three cup sizes. Works for me, but YMMV.
anon
I’m pretty happy with the size I’ve landed on through trial, error, and following manufacturers’ recommendations, which is a solid 36B. The Reddit thing tells me I need a 34C, which is unbelievably uncomfortable and not at all the result I’ve gotten from other fitting tools.
Anon
That’s your bra’s sister size so either might work. In the future when you’re looking for new bras you should try both sizes because the fit will vary by style and manufacturer.
Anonymous
I have not found the “sister size” argument to be true. If it were true, there would be far fewer bra sizes. I am a 32B. I have never, ever been able to wear a 34A without the band’s riding up. Every time I let one of those infernal calculators convince me I’m really a 34A, I end up wearing the bra for a couple of hours and then getting rid of it.
Anon
I have found that calculator to work for me in the same way that I go about breaking in a pair of Docs: at first they’re miserable and I question what I was thinking, but as they start to loosen up and the fit becomes perfect, I remember why I tolerate that break-in period.
This of course depends on your tolerance for frequent replacement (I’d rather suffer a bit at first and get more wear out of them, than be perfectly comfortable at first and have them stretch out faster).
Anon
Just know you can’t look at the band size in isolation. If you’ve always worn a 36b and the calculator is giving you a 32dd, you’re likely thinking you could never fit into a 32b. You have to accept the cup size together with the band size, which seems to be the hardest thing for most people in the comments on ABTF.
The calculator 100% worked for me but being a G cup was been a huge shock because I am a medium-boobed person. But trying in bras in the new smaller band size with my old cup size (D) would not have worked at all.
Additionally, not every style in my new size fits me. I had to try on a lot of styles to find literally three styles that work for my particular shape (lots of projection at the bottom, wide set). Literally three styles fit me in one brand, and I just stick to those now.
But now that I have new bras that actually fit, I look at old pictures and can see how bad my fit was before. And that was based on a Nordstrom fitting. Getting my boobs up and off my midsection has made me look like I lost 10 lb and have better posture.
Anon
This was my experience too. I now find it much more comfortable to wear “ABTF” than to wear anything less supportive. But I agree that shape matters too (also some brands run large or small). I am also particular about the fabric and design (so I avoid narrow bands and straps and prefer softer fabrics). I think I may even actually have better posture now, but I definitely look like I do.
Panda Bear
I’ve always had good luck with the customer service at Bare Necessities – they have so tons of size options and the staff on chat/email/phone have good suggestions. And they are very flexible about returns, so I don’t feel bad ordering a bunch of bras even if I only keep one that makes the cut.
Anonymous
One thing to consider is whether you are soft or hard. I’ve heard from people with more hardor muscular backs that they prefer a slightly larger band.
I’m more squishy/soft and need a very tight band. If band 26 were available in my size, that’s what I’d get. Band 28 (I’m UK 28H) is too loose for firm support, but the best available. A looser band has about as much support as an oversize tank.
Another thing to consider is underwire width, height and placement. The size on the label will not tell you if it’s a good shape for your breast shape.
Anon
+1 to Nordstrom. Due to health conditions I am one of the more conservative people on here regarding pandemic precautions, but I would totally make an appointment for a bra fitting and go in for that, with both parties masked. Pre-covid, my experience with Nordstrom bra fitting was that it was a pretty quick process that always resulted in multiple options of bras to buy.
Anonymous
I never had much luck with the Nordstrom fitters. My local store carried mostly large sizes and I am on the small end of average, so the fitters would always try to convince me to buy the wrong size or the wrong style because that’s what they had in stock. That’s the real point of the “sister size” thing–to convince you that the wrong size is actually equivalent to your real size so you’ll buy what they have in stock.
LaurenB
I took my elderly mother to Nordstrom for a bra fitting. She genuinely needed them as she had had a significant weight change. The fitter wore a mask as we all did. She did her thing. We all sanitized. It was fine.
Anonymous
PSA: please call your senators and representatives and urge them to stand up for the integrity of the election results. When McConnell has praised Republican wins in down-ballot races and claimed that the presidency is suspect WHILE ON THE VERY SAME BALLOT, it’s not about legitimate investigations of “fraud.” Please call and put pressure on your representatives. If you really can’t call, send an email, but calling is much more effective and hard to ignore.
Anon
Do you think there is any point in doing this if your sentators and reps are all democrats? Is there more the national democratic party can be doing but isn’t? Genuine question. I’m extremely concerned about this situation as well.
Anonymous
You can call them and ask them to exert as much pressure as they can on their colleagues. It might not do much, but it takes 30 seconds to call.
Anonymous
I don’t see any point.
Anon
They aren’t on the same ballot. The entire point is that there are substantial undervotes: lots of ballots with only Biden filled in. It’s an indicator of fraud (there’s a very tight timeframe in which you can try to commit fraud, which means that it’s detrimental to fill in all of those bubbles for Senate, House, state senate, state house, city council, school committee, and dog catcher).
I’m really tired of explaining this over and over.
anonshmanon
It’s completely normal to have strong opinions about getting rid of a president who embarrasses himself and the nation on tv every day for four years, but not pay that much attention to politics to care about local candidates. My neighbor did exactly that – vote for the top of the ticket and nothing else. This is not that unusual.
Airplane.
+1
LaurenB
I’m really tired of explaining that if Democrats were to engineer widescale voter fraud, they would have ensured that McConnell and Graham were kicked out, they wouldn’t be dealing with the runoffs in Georgia, and they wouldn’t have lost seats in the house. Take your voter fraud allegations back to Breitbart or OANN where they belong.
anon
Right? Why would “they” (whoever that actually is) have bothered to fraudulently engineer a razor-thin, re-count eligible flip for Trump but not also “steal” senate seats?
Anon
Let’s do math:
McConnell: 1,233,055 votes
McGrath: 816,042 votes
Number of votes McConnell won by: 417,013
Even if you knew in advance how many votes McConnell would win by (i.e. you would not need to wildly overestimate or stuff 300,000 ballots only to lose), you need to figure out how to stuff close to a half-million ballots in boxes. Moreover, you would need to ensure that counties all stay below approximately 85% turnout (much higher than that triggers suspicion) and, per previous discussion, the names you check off as having voted are not people who show up on Election Day.
Furthermore, Kentucky requires an ID to vote and further scans the ID at the polls. The computers record the names of people who vote and WHEN they vote.
Kentucky runs its elections by county. While Jefferson and Fayette counties are large (632,785 and 250698 registered voters, respectively), the average county size is 37,000 people, give or take. In order to stuff the ballot boxes and NOT exceed the total number of registered voters, you would have to coordinate efforts across at least thirty or forty counties.
So in your world, it is easy-peasy lemon squeezey to do the following: get the count in (despite the fact that Kentucky is spread across two time zones), know that you have to manufacture almost half-million McGrath ballots, coordinate efforts across forty counties, manufacture driver’s licenses to scan in with the names of people who have not voted, get those licenses scanned in after 6 pm local time (hoping that the SoS infrastructure won’t flag it, and heavens knows how to do this), furiously fill out almost a half-million ballots (about 600 man hours alone), and hope that no one gets suspicious when 420,000 ballots for McGrath show up after everyone has submitted poll results.
You cannot do this just on absentee ballots; absentee ballot requests went through the SoS and every ballot was tracked. There just aren’t enough that you can claim “came in” on Election Day to possibly make up a 417,000 vote deficit.
Any red flags (and there are many), and Adams doesn’t certify the election. Lundergan Grimes probably would have, but that’s another ball of wax.
This just is not the same thing as a few rogue actors voting absentee for their grandma in the hospital, getting an absentee ballot in the mail for someone else and filling it out, and a handful of rogue county clerks checking off names (“Yep, that absentee ballot got returned and they voted for good ole Joe”) and stuffing ballots in boxes – for a total of about 30,000 votes. Other states don’t have the robust infrastructure Kentucky has; even Kentucky didn’t have it two years ago.
anonshmanon
Here is some math for you: the Reps are alleging 90k undervotes in Georgia as fishy – there were 200k in 2016. They say Pennsylvania has 98k undervotes – there were at least 110k in 2016, and they have since eliminated the convenient method to vote straight ticket by one mark – on option that 37% of voters used then, but now they have to fill in a LOT more bubbles to have the same result. Or, they may just vote for the one big race. This is not an unusual thing to happen and there is no reason to assume that it’s happening in alarming numbers this year.
Anon
Undervoting is a long-established phenomenon where voters are more likely to vote for top-ballot races and leave down-ballot races blank intentionally. You are welcome to research the decades of work written about it . And I’m guessing from your post you’ve never worked as a poll worker – I recommend signing up for next election and getting a first hand look into everything that goes into the process.
Anon
Not this year, but plenty of years I went in to vote for one race that I cared about, but left the rest blank because I hadn’t done any research and didn’t want to just vote party line (I never vote for someone I know nothing about). I also know 2 people who did this this year, one of whom was in PA.
I’m really tired of explaining over and over that Trump lost because more people voted for Biden.
Anon
It really isn’t. One, you have to compare undervotes to other presidential years and by jurisdiction. A LOT of people only vote in Presidential years and skip people they don’t know. And it varies by jurisdiction. Two, fraud is exceptionally difficult to do and difficult to prove. Why do you think Republicans went the voter suppression route and U.S. enemies (Russia) went the “change peoples hearts and minds with fake conspiracy theory) route of influencing elections? Because actual voter fraud is exceptionally hard to pull off and easy to audit because of voter id laws and registration and ballot matching. No voter fraud occurred, and all it’s doing is effectively casting doubt on the U.S. electoral process. Republicans want a revote but haven’t provided any proof that fraud has occurred, so they’re going with public sentiments..
Anonymous
And we get tired of explaining and it’s not usual for someone to care about getting rid of DJT but also DGAF about ‘agriculture commissioner’ or all the other annoying down ballot races. And someone who isn’t an avowed D or R will not just vote their party down the ballot.
AnonMPH
You’re tired of explaining a bogus talking point over and over again, which has no evidence behind it? Sorry to hear it’s tiring you out.
Anonymous
Right, I agree there’s no fraud but do you work in PR in some relevant field or can you just stop?
January
Undervotes are also historically common and not necessarily an indicator of anything nefarious.
Anonymous
Thank you for the reminder. Done.
Running at Dusk/ Dark
Give me your best tips and gear for running in the dark/dusk. I try to run during lunch when possible, but days are getting busier with work and baby.
I’m in the SEUS so snow is not a concern, but more of my runs will start taking place around dusk. I run mostly in private suburban neighborhood streets, but there are no sidewalks so visibility is a concern. Some parts of the neighborhood have street lights. I always run the opposite direction of traffic (on the left).
I tell my husband which route I’m running, but I don’t run with my phone. I never run with headphones in.
Anonymous
Run with your phone!
Go for it
Get a SPI belt and run with your phone for safety! I use it and it’s works great, no bounce at all.
Some runners in my area wear headlamps & clothing with reflective components sewn in.
Anonymous
Take your phone in case of emergency. A running belt will hold it comfortably without bouncing; I prefer the zippered one from LLL to the FlipBelt. Wear a reflective vest and light-colored clothing.
Ideally, buy a treadmill instead of running in the dark. There is at least one runner killed every year while running in the dark in our suburban/rural county. Not all of the drivers are drunk. The roads are so narrow that there’s no place to run that’s safely out of range of traffic, and curves make it hard for drivers to see that they’re coming up on a runner (or a bike rider, for that matter) no matter how cautious they are being. The fact that a lot of people run in dark clothing without lights or reflective gear makes it even more dangerous. It’s such a problem that I try to avoid driving on certain roads whenever it’s dark out.
Anonymous
Yes. I am amazed that I haven’t killed a dawn/dusk runner already. We have sidewalks, but they often run next to parked cars, often with vs against traffic, no lights, and in dark clothes.
When I run, it is in wild colors, on sidewalks or against traffic, with with reflective gear and white mittens. I have a headlamp too (I loop the strap around my hand as it tends to skip).
anne-on
This, please PLEASE run with reflective clothing/light colors/headlamp. There is a college dorm in our town on one of our main roads that leads to a highway (ie, cars coming off going 45/50 mph constantly). I cannot tell you how many kids I see running at dusk/in the dark in all black clothing with no lights/reflective anything. I am shocked there haven’t been more deaths.
anon
I do a lot of my running in the dark. I really like the Noxgear light-up vest for staying visible to others. Wear light tops, preferably with some reflective tape, and avoid dressing in all black. Get a headlamp if visibility is a problem for you. Can I ask why you don’t run with a phone? I would really start doing that, just in case you get into a situation where you’d want someone to come pick you up.
Clementine
Yep. I run with a noxgear vest (light up/blinking and reflective) for visibility, my phone for safety in a spibelt, a headlamp so that I can see, and a RoadID bracelet just in case (god forbid) something happens and they need to have an emergency contact number. Ragnar really influenced me and for a while I just wore a head lamp, reflective vest, and blinking back light. That combo worked really well too.
I also run at night in either 1) the residential neighborhood where kids are still playing basketball in their driveways and it’s generally not isolated, 2) the local college campus designated running loop which is well lit, monitored by security, and (pre-COVID) I would run with a buddy for, or 3)on my treadmill.
Anon
As a driver who hates driving at night, I really appreciate the runners who have Noxvest or similar light up vest, as opposed to just reflective vests. They really are more visible.
OP
I got in the habit of not running with it because DH and I used to run together and at minimum he was in shouting/eye distance if something happened. With the baby, we obviously can’t run together unless we sprung for a nice jogging stroller, but we aren’t there yet.
I do need to buy a spi belt or similar that doesn’t bounce much. That’s the main reason I don’t like running with it in my leggings pocket, if it even fits. I have the new iphone se if anyone has thoughts on how that does in a running belt.
Clementine
As a connoisseur of jogging strollers, when I upgraded to a Thule Glide 2, it changed my running life.
Anon
We got the BOB Revolution on Black Friday discount last year, and it’s great. It even has a cell phone pocket right near the handle.
Which leggings to you use that allows your cell phone to bounce?
waffles
I don’t know if you can take the sim card out of an iphone, but I bought a tiny phone which I only use for running. It’s great because it holds my spotify, so I can use it for music, and it also functions as an emergency phone. I just swap in my sim before I go running.
I have the “atom” phone by Hertz. You can get an armband for it too if you like. It’s not a functional everyday phone, but it’s good for running!
donuts
Reflective vest and blinking arm band
Head lamp
anonymous
Wear as bright/reflective clothing as possible. As a driver, it’s difficult to see people in the dark. Don’t assume cars see you.
Anonymous
My runs are at 4 AM, so very dark. I bought an amazing light belt at my local running store last year. It made such a difference. Mine is made by one80 light and I highly recommend it.
AnonATL
Oh that belt is intriguing since it solves the bright lights and headlamp problem. Traditional head lamps are too bouncy even when walking around a campsite. I can’t imagine running in one.
Anonymous
There is surprisingly no bouncing with the belt, and I don’t even notice it is on me. I provides so much light on the ground. It is truly the best thing I bought last year. I now use it for some much stuff because the light is just incredible.
Anon
My regular headlamp’s strap extends long enough that I can wear it as a belt. That said, I still usually forget about it and after many years of practice picking up my feet running trails and in the dark, don’t really need it.
My general rule of thumb is to not cross in front of a car unless I have made eye contact with the driver. Too many negligent drivers out there.
emeralds
Yeah, my low tech solution is to wear my headlamp as a belt. I turn it to face the traffic and use the flasher setting.
anon OP
Paging Anokha –
I forgot to mention my favorite version of the Ramanyan – Sita’s Ramanyan!
https://www.amazon.com/Sitas-Ramayana-Samhita-Arni/dp/155498145X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3QLVIANQYK6H7&dchild=1&keywords=sita%27s+ramayana&qid=1605018117&sprefix=sita%27s%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-1
Anokha
Thank you so much! I am… spending a lot of money on Diwali books this year apparently :)
Anonymous
Recommendations for decent quality men’s cashmere sweaters in the $250-ish or less price range with a fit suitable for a middle-aged man (not skintight a la Bonobos)? I am looking for a cashmere quarter-zip sweater for my husband. I first considered Boden, where I bought most of my own cashmere sweaters a few years back, but reviews indicate that the quality has declined. I was not impressed with the quality of the cashmere at Bloomingdales last year. I am tempted to splurge on the N. Peal sweater Prince Harry wears, but my husband is a serial sweater wrecker and I can’t stand the thought of something so expensive’s getting destroyed.
Anon
I don’t know if there is a quarter zip version, but my husband bought a Nordstrom Signature cashmere sweater last year that is fabulous quality and looks great on his middle age body.
OP
There is a quarter-zip in his favorite color, and the price is right. Thank you!
anon a mouse
Orvis?
Anon
Orvis. Better quality than Brooks Bros at this point.
Diana Barry
Don’t laugh, but my parents got my DH a cashmere sweater a few years ago from LL Bean of all places, and it looks good on him. Their sizing is generous – he is an XL almost everywhere but still L in LL Bean.
SF in House
No returns, but this place is great: https://thecashmeresale.com/collections/trending. It is apparently a white label of the Neiman Marcus cashmere.
Nesprin
This sounds like a brooks brothers problem.
Ribena
There were lots of hot takes on the internet about the fact that the VP Elect got coverage in newspaper Style sections as well as in main news sections… haven’t any of those people seen Legally Blonde???
Anyway, I wrote about it in my newsletter, linked through my username – interested to hear all your thoughts.
Panda Bear
I’m always kind of torn about this… because of course, on one hand it’s dumb that female public figures get covered for (especially if only for) their hair, makeup, pantsuits etc. But on the other hand, I do find it interesting and inspiring to see how powerful women dress and adorn themselves. So I read the style coverage, but a little guiltily.
Panda Bear
OK, now that I’m reading your essay I see what you are saying! I’ve never seen Legally Blonde so the reference went over my head.
Ribena
I’m with you that it’s interesting and inspiring. There’s a lot of on-one-hand, on-the-other-hand here.
Anon
I haven’t seen those takes but I did read some of that coverage. I think to pretend that it’s not important what a woman at that level wears is silly. Obviously she put thought into the white suit, white p-y bow blouse so yeah, I want to read about it!
I’m not anywhere near the level of VPOTUS, but I’m in a somewhat visible role and you bet I’m putting thought into what I wear. When I wear something bold or that makes a statement, it’s 100% intentional. And it’s 100% intentional when I decide to wear a hooded sweatshirt to a zoom meeting.
Anon
I haven’t read any of the style section stuff, but of course I know her white suit was Carolina Herrera and I don’t know that I’ve ever known who makes any of the dudes’ suits. I also know she had a tendency to wear converse on the plane with her suits during the campaign. So it’s not just the style section. It’s pervasive.
Anon
how do people decide when to get a covid test vs. it’s just a cold/cough. i have zero fever, a tiny bit of a runny nose, but mostly a sore throat/cough. i know that covid presents differently in everyone, but i’m finding this exhausting. two weeks ago my kids had runny noses, spoke with ped, said no need for a covid test (i had also just had one required through work which was negative) and then i also had a bit of a cold. kids are now fine and i was fine, but now feeling like i have a bit of a sore throat/cough. DH has horrific seasonal allergies so is always sneezing/coughing, etc., but it’s exhausting/stressful figuring out when to get tested
Deanna
I would only get a COVID test if I had a mild-severe fever and/or I had “textbook” COVID symptoms, especially if you have kiddos. They are germ factories even when not in school. They have an uncanny ability to pick up germs even when in lockdown.
Anonymous
I agree with this. But just adding that about 1/3 of COVID in a recent study never had signs of fever. Only mentioning because the stat really surprised me. Temp checks of employees (or customers at a salon, etc.) aren’t all that reliable.
Anonymous
Just go get a test. I do every time I have symptoms. No exhausting stressful debate which frankly only seems necessary if you think you should get tested but don’t wanna.
Anon
+1
anon
+1 getting my first test was scary, and I had a big internal battle about should I/shouldn’t I because I knew deep down it was just a cold (it was). I’ve since had 4, and all were negative. Get it for the peace of mind.
donuts
I go to CVS and get the COVID19 test for the peace of mind. Stay home until results are back.
anon
My husband got tested a few days because every single one of the four people he works closely with (think, in a car for 8 hours close) had symptoms including loss of smell and taste. The others were all positive, but he was negative somehow. We’re thinking a false negative. It shouldn’t be that stressful to decide- the tests aren’t expensive and take 20 seconds.
Anon
He should retest several days after the first test, particularly if he took a rapid results test.
Anon
I always get one when in doubt, because I know I will not relax until I know if I have it or not. I would not be comfortable having contact with anyone until I knew.
Curious
I read somewhere that if you’re sneezing, it’s likely not COVID. I find that helpful because my colds are often very sneezy :)
Curious
This is not super scientific, to be clear (“read it somewhere”, no idea my source) It’s my mental coping mechanism to calm myself down about my normal winter sniffles.
Anon
I’ve been waiting to see if we have two or more of the early symptoms – so if you have cough and sore throat, better to be tested.
We all have seasonal allergies as well, so we did get tested at the beginning to ensure it truly was allergies, but then didn’t retest while the symptoms stayed on. We’ve been having a warm spell in the Midwest so I’m guessing when it cools down again this weekend, we’ll get sick again and probably need to pre-emptively test.
We have a free testing location near us that doesn’t require a doctor’s note, but takes 2+ days to get the results. If/when we need to test again, we plan to have the entire family go and test, each time it’s needed, just because of the scenario where the kids get sick and then one of us gets similar symptoms a day or two later.
Anonymous
Check the website for your medical service provider. Mine has a quiz you take and then it tells you what to do next. In my state we don’t have testing available unless you demonstrate a specific set of symptoms.
SC
I also have allergies. I haven’t gotten tested when I’ve had post-nasal drip, sneezing, and sore throat/coughing from the PND. I have gotten tested twice–first, when I had a “dry” cough and sore throat, and second when I had PND but also lost my sense of smell and felt exhausted. Fortunately, negative both times.
When making a decision, I’d also factor in exposure to known cases–I’m working in the office in person, and I know of 3 people who have tested positive in the past few weeks. Those people volunteered the information, but since the office isn’t telling us of positive cases unless we’re within 6 feet for 15 minutes or more, I suspect there are several more cases. If I had symptoms now, I’d be more cautious and go ahead and get tested.
Anon
I’m trying to decide the same. I also have terrible seasonal allergies, but my symptoms this fall are unusual–a constant chest and esophagus ache, similar to when I run in very cold weather. I’ve also had major GERD flare-ups due to stress, so I’m uncertain if I’m being paranoid or not.
Anon
I’d include in your analysis whether you go anywhere. Seems like you have kids that are likely out spending time out of the house so your chance of infecting other people is greater than a single person or couple working from home and going to the grocery store once/week. Since I’m in the latter group and have asthma, allergies and a GI condition that present with similar to COVID symptoms, I usually give it a day or two to see if I get better or worse – but I don’t leave the house during that time.
AnonMPH
I would suggest getting tested. Once you are symptomatic, a PCR test is not likely to give a false negative, so if you get a negative result you can feel pretty certain that on that particular day, you do not have COVID. Yes, it’s exhausting, but would you want to find out later you’d been sending your COVID-exposed kids to school (if they are going)?
AnonMPH
Oh and also, my BIL had allergy symptoms for weeks and said “Oh I just always have allergies” got a negative rapid test (please, don’t touch rapid tests!! they are not very sensitive), and then a week later of continuing allergy symptoms got another test and it was positive. So key takeaways: 1) Allergy symptoms can be allergies and can be COVID 2) Get a PCR COVID test if you have any sort of symptoms.
For myself, I have NOT gotten tested if I just have a headache, but if I had headache + anything else.
Anonymous
Do you go anywhere in person? Is testing widely available?’of so, just get one. My kids have to get one if they have a runny nose + basically any other symptom. You’d qualify.
Anonymouse
I live in New Zealand (which has done very well with pandemic control). The advice here is any respiratory illness should get a test, though it’s most likely not covid without fever, shortness of breath, etc.
CO Mountain Girl
Work in Healthcare. You will need to get a covid test after you sneeze.
We are testing all of our hospital employees when exhibiting any covid symptoms. We have the rapid test and are getting turn around in a few hours. That being said, we are in a severe hot spot and we have almost 20% of our essential workers out today.
not April Whittier
I don’t know if I’m venting, or looking for a gut check.
DH doesn’t have a personal laptop, just a crappy work Chromebook that has a lot of sites blocked. So a couple of times a week, he uses my personal laptop. Sometimes he asks first; sometimes he just picks it up. I’m a very private person and I’m always irked by this, even though I try not to show it. I’m not carrying on affaires de coeur or anything–I love my husband and we have a strong relationship. But there’s stuff on my laptop that I’d really rather not have him see. I write pretty racy romance novels; since quarantine started, I’ve taken a very enjoyable dive back into reading and writing equally racy fanfic; I’ve got some risqué images saved as references for said writing; and then there’s the run-of-the-mill personal correspondence with friends, twitter convos, etc.
I wish I could adopt an “if you see it and you get an eyeful, it’s your problem,” attitude, and I’ve tried! But it just stresses me out. He knows what I read and write in the abstract, but to my brain there’s a difference between the hypothetical “my wife is trying to publish her romance novel” and “this is the specific sex scene that my wife is currently editing.” I offered to get him a laptop of his own for Christmas, which he says it isn’t worth it since he only needs to use it a couple times a week; I’ve offered to give him my old laptop, which I could scrub, but he doesn’t want it since it’s slower. I’ve always been touchy about people I’m close to seeing this kind of stuff, so this is definitely not only about my husband. And I have no concerns that he’s trying to snoop in my emails or anything. I just need to suck it up, right?
Anon
Had a similar issue. My DH and I are overly open with eachother, absolutely no secrets at all, but it still would both me when he used my laptop for the same reason. (Also, he would often forget to close out his ummm viewing material….) There are so many cheap laptops available. I put a password on mine and bought him a $100 chromebook. Problem solved.
anonshmanon
Your right to privacy doesn’t stop in marriage. Stop trying to hide that this is a problem for you, be honest to him, or just go ahead and get him that laptop for Christmas anyway.
Cat
You can usually set up more than one user profile on the same device – can you set it up so that he has his own login and then can’t see your stuff?
Anon
+1
Anonymous
This is what we do.
Mostly because I’m picky about my Chrome bookmarks not being cluttered and he bookmarks everything remotely interesting to him plus I like to leave everything on auto-log in for various websites and him logging me out in order to log himself in is so frustrating.
OP
Oh my god, why hadn’t this occurred to me? Head. Desk. Thank you.
Anan
Yes, this. This is how we handle our shared desktop in our house.
But you should also tell him why you are doing it, for the sake of transparency and setting boundaries with your husband.
Anonymous
Nope! You can say “hey actually no this doesn’t work for me. I treat my laptop like a diary and I just want it to be private. I know you don’t mind, but I do. So we are buying you your own laptop.”
anon
+1
Vicky Austin
+1
Walnut
+1
LaurenB
Can you save the stuff you don’t want him to see on a flash drive / jump drive instead of on the computer?
Bonnie Kate
Absolutely not, do not just suck it up. I’m not hiding anything on my computer and I’d be annoyed because it’s mine. It’d be different if it was one or two times every few months or something, but a couple times a week regularly is annoying. Get him a cheap laptop.
anon
Your privacy is important! I would either get him his own laptop (lots of places have them on sale this time of year) or if you can’t afford that, have separate password protected accounts with the understanding that logging onto the other person’s account is a serious violation of privacy.
Anon
Why in heaven’s name haven’t you set up a separate user profile for him? Or at the very least password restrict your sensitive folders? He won’t have access to your stuff.
Sometimes it is easier to just sidestep the issue altogether.
anon
Nope, this would drive me crazy, too. He can have his own laptop.
Kara
Just make a separate user account for him on your laptop, and make sure yours is password protected. It’ll be like you have separate laptops, and you’ll feel more comfortable.
OP
Y’all I promise I’m a competent professional woman who knows you can have multiple accounts on the same computer. I have no idea why my brain never applied this knowledge to this situation! I just created an account for him. And it should also be a good solution for him too, since that means he won’t have to sift through my folders to find e.g. the photos he pulled off his phone last week to edit for our holiday card, which was the precipitating incident yesterday evening.
Thank you, thank you, thank you! And thank you for the validation that it’s not wrong for me to be irked by this. The poster who likened it to a diary is absolutely correct.
Anonie
I guess I am in the minority, but it would hurt and confuse me if my fiance kept his devices hidden from me. That said, I have also never used his laptop in my life, I can never remember his cell phone password no matter how many times he tells me, and he has never used my laptop without asking my permission.
In theory, I like the idea of partners having unfettered, unrestricted access to each other’s devices. In practice, I guess we do have boundaries there.
Anon
Same. We don’t regularly snoop each other’s devices but if I want to google something real quick and my husband’s phone is closer, he has no problem with me doing so. We know each other’s passwords. If someone was super strict about making sure I didn’t see their phone/laptop, I would wonder what they were hiding.
OP
FWIW, we know each other’s phone logins and I care a lot less about him grabbing my phone than my laptop.
Anon
You’re not being unreasonable. My husband does things on his laptop that I would never allow on mine (like streaming foreign TV shows from shady sites).
Anon
No, you need to buy him his own laptop, that is the very easy solution to this problem.
Anon
You don’t want him using your laptop. It doesn’t matter what the reason is. Even in marriage you get to have some things that belong to just you. He’s not being respectful of your boundaries. You need to be firmer that it is your personal laptop, not the family laptop, and it he wants his own he needs to get one.
Anon
And I say this as a mom where sometimes it feels like everything that is my husband’s is his, and everything that is mine is for the family. I have had to establish my own boundaries about this.
As an example, my husband has more than one car because he works on cars as a hobby. He fully expects anyone who wants to drive one of his cars to ask his permission, and he will basically lecture them ahead of time on how they have to drive it. But my car seems to be the only community property and my husband thinks nothing of grabbing my key and running and errand. I had to put my foot down about this over the summer.
It may sound petty to you, but I hated going outside to get into my car and not finding it in the driveway. And not having a key to use his main car because the key was in his pocket on his errand.
Anon
Yeah, that would drive me absolutely crazy. It’s very thoughtless of your husband.
Anonymous
Can you just put a second user on it? DH and I share a laptop but we each have an account with our own password.
Our isn’t romance novels…it’s that I have a very fluttery desktop and DH has exactly one on his. Neither of us can function like the other!
anon
My office will officially be doing WFH through the spring. Knowing that winter is upon us, what are your favorite cold-weather tops or wraps to wear for WFH? I’m thinking of adding a few to my Christmas list. The room I work in runs chilly, so I’ve already been wearing a lot of fleece + t-shirts underneath. I’d prefer soft things instead of sweaters.
I like the style of Patagonia’s better sweater, but Patagonia doesn’t fit me well, so I’d like to find something similar in another brand. I’m 5’8″ with a long torso, smaller bust but with wider hips. (Patagonia balloons in the bust while being too small around my waist and hips.)
Ribena
I’m the same height as you and a similar shape and am currently really cosy in a fleecy sweater I got from Ama zon. Link to follow
Ribena
Charles River Apparel Women’s… https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07CXQNP17?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
Link is to the U.K. site but they also have it in the US.
Ribena
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Charles-River-Apparel-Hingham-Pullover/dp/B07G9T3RLB
UK link but from the US so will be available on your site too.
anon.
Athleta Coaster Luxe Sweatshirt in a tall size. I just got one in a small tall (also long torso’d) and I’m completely obsessed.
Anon
Have you tried North Face? That brand fits me well and I’m of similar size.
Sloan Sabbith
I literally made a Nordstrom wish list called Cozy, so I have a bunch of ideas:
– North Face Knit Stitch Hoodie. I like this except I wish it had a pocket. It’s very soft.
– Barefoot Dreams/Costco dupe wrap.
– Barefoot Dreams Nordic sweater. Love this one. Looks so comfy.
– The Ugg Louise Fluffy Lounge Hoodie. Also looks super soft.
– Ugg Marlene Faux Fur Jacket.
– My mom has the Zella Cozy Fleece High-Low sweatshirt and she’s been wearing it after work most days
I’m also a much bigger fan of long sleeve t-shirts than I used to be.
Anon
Ladies, talk me off the ledge. On the way home from work last night, I stopped and got a grilled chicken sandwich from Wendy’s. I felt like the texture was off when I was eating it, but figured maybe they had overcooked it. Wrong! Halfway through the sandwich, I looked down and saw it was raw!! Not a little raw – it was pink. I feel grossed out about eating raw chicken (and pretty annoyed at Wendy’s!). I actually didn’t think it was possible – I assumed all their food arrived cooked, they were just reheated it on-site, but apparently not! It’s unlikely that this will result in salmonella or something, right?
anon
I think if you were going to get sick, you would know by now.
But let me just say…eeeeeewwwwwww!
anon
Yeah you’re probably fine. I got e coli from raw meat once and I knew later that same night…
Anon
This is the downside to the Wendys “always fresh, never frozen” campaign.
Super gross, yes. But, you’d probably already know if you had food poisoning by now.
AnonATL
Both times I have had food poisoning in the last couple of years, I was vomiting within a couple of hours of eating the food.
Gross on Wendy’s, but you likely are ok at this point.
Anonymous
As someone who had to work at Wendy’s to put myself through school, yeah everything comes raw as the slogan would imply. The grilled chicken actually takes a long time to cook by fast food standards (7 minutes if memory serves) so it likely that it was pulled off the grill too soon in order to meet the speed timelines imposed by corporate.
Brining a turkey
How do you brine a turkey? (Not BRIBE, per autocorrect). I usually use gallon ziplocks but that won’t work — way too small. Hefty bag? Now that I have acquired a frozen turkey I realize I am out of my depth before it has thawed.
Anonymous
Buy a turkey brining bag! They’re usually right next to the turkeys in a grocery store.
Anon
Don’t use a hefty bag – the plastic they use is not food safe.
Anonymous
Use a cooler!
Clementine
We use a cooler and have also used a 5 gallon food-safe bucket in the garage filled with a brine with ice and kept at a safe temperature.
anon
We also use a cooler + ice and keep in our chilly garage.
Anonymous
Research brining a frozen turkey and look at your packaging before you do this. Brining is typically for fresh turkeys, as frozen turkeys are often injected with salt already.
Aunt Jamesina
Dry brine. Way easier to deal with and takes up way less space in the fridge with the same results. Check out Serious Eats for info.
anon
+1. We’ve been dry brining and spatchcocking for several years. Bonus, you don’t have to clean out a salmonella cooler.
Sunshine71
+1 for dry brining. So much easier and great results.
Senior Attorney
Yep I’ve done wet and dry and dry is much easier and yields a better result.
Anon
Look up Alton Brown Bonappiet recipe. Also, I have bought much bigger bags from Bed Bath and Beyond that are general purpose ziploc bags. They also have turkey brine bags.
Anonymous
Use a brining bag. You can buy them at cooking stores like W-S.
Betsy
I have a five gallon stockpot that I put it in – usually there’s a tiny bit that sticks out but it’s fine. Otherwise a dry brine might be a good option for you.
anon
but how DO you bribe a turkey?! Thanks for the laugh!
Senior Attorney
With a pre-Thanksgiving pardon?
Anonymous
A bucket works, too, Ideally one with a lid.
Anon
I dry brine. Life changing. Far less messy. I like Molly Stevens’s very detailed approach but there are lots of sources on this.
You get all the great flavorful effects of wet brining, but in addition you get beautiful crispy skin, and you don’t have to mess around with finding space for the brining process.
Anon
https://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/dry-brine-for-turkey-51197820
Anonymous
I accidentally bought 2-gallon ziplocks … so larger than a gallon ones do exist
all about eevee
So, my cousin is getting married this year. He and his bride are planning a 250+ person wedding in December. I RSVP’d “no” to the wedding because I am at high risk for complications if I were to get COVID (I have COPD) and my relatives on that side of the family are now angry at me. I’m bummed that my family doesn’t understand. Why does this stuff have to be so hard?
Anonymous
Where is a wedding of that size even allowed? That is completely crazy and your relatives are morons.
all about eevee
Tennessee. Some of it will be outdoors so that apparently makes it okay.
Anon
Greetings from Tennessee! Sounds about right. Gah.
Referring to an up thread discussion where there is criticism of people who are basically holing up and not going anywhere during the pandemic, at least for some of us it’s because we live somewhere like this where we are surrounded by fools. Bet 10% or less of the guests at that wedding wear a mask, and that those who do are told “why are you wearing that? You don’t need to wear that”. (Read that in a challenging if not hostile tone for accuracy).
Anonymous
“at least for some of us it’s because we live somewhere like this where we are surrounded by fools.”
This x1 million. At least 50% of the people I see who bother to “wear” masks are wearing them under their noses or down on their chins. So, no, I am not going to go out among these people if there is any way to avoid it. This is why we can’t have nice things.
Anon
+ 1 on the mask challenging. Happens to my sister in Texas daily.
LaurenB
Ok, but surely you understand that it’s very different for those of us in blue states / long-standing mask mandates / high compliance? I’m sitting outside a Home Depot right now as I need to go buy something for a home plumbing repair. Everyone walking from the parking lot is either wearing a mask or about to put one on. I can reasonably expect everyone in the store to be wearing masks, just like I can reasonably expect the drivers on the road to follow traffic laws. So why, again, is this so dangerous? I get I don’t want to lick the floors here, of course.
Tea/Coffee
We just experienced this – wedding was just recently. We are clearly being frozen out by that side of the family now (most family did attend).
However, most family is now being notified that they were exposed at said wedding and should test/quarantine. So there’s that.
It makes me sad bc this was supposed to be the “smart” side of the family, and it’s the one that we hang out with the most frequently, by far, in non-pandemic times. I am sad that it’s probably going to take quite a bit of time to repair this.
all about eevee
Under normal circumstances, I would have happily attended but my RSVP is being interpreted as a sign that my husband and I don’t care about the couple or that side of the family.
Anonymous
Actually, the fact that the wedding is being held is a sign that that side of the family doesn’t care about you and your husband, or anyone else.
Anon
When I read this my brain automatically assumed December 2021. Clearly you meant December 1 month from now. This will be a superspreader event. Omg. How irresponsible. You are 100000% doing the right thing, with not even an ounce of “maybe”.
Anon
+1
There’s absolutely no way I would attend and I would not feel even a tiny bit bad about it.
all about eevee
I feel awful honestly because my aunt (mother of the groom) is one of my favorite people and this is the first time in my life she’s ever been really mad at me. I am still going to send a gift, but I just can’t attend the bridal shower or the wedding. It’s not worth dying over.
Brunette Elle Woods
I agree. I have no pre-existing conditions and I still wouldn’t go. I also cut a date short after I found out he went to a 40 person wedding.
Anonymous
I would not feel even one tiny ounce of remorse or guilt for this. Not even a shred. That is incredibly, horrendously irresponsible and yes, will lead to deaths.
LaurenB
I have to be honest. I’d anonymously call the authorities on a 250-person wedding. Where in the US is that allowed right now? What venues are taking this?
Anon
my boss hosted a 30 person wedding for her daughter at her house two weeks ago and last week tested positive for covid. thank you for not going to the wedding.
anon
We made a similar call back in October, and yeah, people were upset. Also three of them have had covid, so sorry not sorry.
blueberries
Thank you for RSVPing no. Even without preexisting conditions, I think declining to attend this kind of thing is the only responsible thing to do.
I’m sorry your family is reckless with the health of guests and the wider community.
Not That Anne, the Other Anne
Yesterday I was notified that a former coworker died last week of Covid and her husband is still fighting it. She got it at …. a family wedding.
It’s not worth dying over.
Anonymous
I’m sorry for your loss. What a horrible outcome and I hope your coworker’s husband makes it through. It’s definitely not worth it and I imagine that the bride and groom feel horrible and won’t have fond memories of the day.
Anonymous
I keep seeing this sentiment and it’s honestly so confusing. Like no I don’t think most people connect the dots like this, that’s the primary difference between people who are very cautious and those who aren’t. The couple is probably thinking – everyone will get it eventually, some deaths are unavoidable, this is just another risk of living in the world. I don’t think the couple will feel any more responsible for this death than they would if, say, someone died in a car accident on their way to the wedding.
Anonymous
I mean, it’s not a huge logical leap? “People attended my wedding and then died” seems understandable even to the cognitively challenged people we’re discussing.
Anonymous
I think the people having these weddings genuinely believe that they are so important that their guests should just suck it up and take the risk to attend. They don’t take responsibility for the deaths because, welp, those are the breaks.
Thanks, it has pockets!
Jesus. Who the heck is actually having weddings this big AND expecting all of their invited guests to actually come? I understand that a lot of people had weddings planned for this year, and in some cases it’s not possible to get all the deposits back because the wedding can *legally* happen (I’m guessing some vendors are only issuing refunds if the wedding violates local ordinances), and others were really looking forward to the wedding and for whatever reason can’t bring themselves to scale it back or postpone the party. But a wedding this size is reckless and irresponsible, regardless of whether it’s technically allowed, and honestly, any couple getting married right now should be nothing but understanding if people decline an invite to their wedding, whether the guest list is 10, 25, or hundreds of people.
I mean, none of what I just said changes your situation, and it really sucks that they’re holding this against you. I hope that in time, bridges burned and grudges held due to declined invitations will heal, as people eventually realize how many people are dying, how bad this virus can be, and how bad the lasting complications are for some people.
KS IT Chick
We just got an invitation to our niece’s wedding in 1/2. Under any other circumstances, we would be willing to go. We know we can’t. I also know that I am about to ignite a firestorm within the family.
I feel you so much.
Anonymous
You aren’t igniting it; your niece is.
Aunt Jamesina
I dealt with this with a cousin’s wedding this summer. My response was always that me not going had everything to do with health concerns and nothing to do with my feelings for my cousin or family. I refused to engage in further conversation about it beyond that.
Anon
My cousin had a 100+ person wedding in Wisconsin this summer (I didn’t consider attending for a second) that was supposed to be outdoors and socially distanced. I saw the pictures on Facebook after the fact, and none of those things were true. It was easier to count the masked people than the unmasked people. Tons of pics of people crammed together for selfies. The usual 10–14 person round tables, inside. All the dancing. All the shots. No masks.
That was in august. Since then Wisconsin has made the news for being a problematic hot spot. It is no surprise to me at all.
Anonymous
Someone at my best friend’s work just had a medium-sized wedding in a hotspot, deep red state and was telling her coworkers about it on the following Monday. One of the supervisors in the office (so someone with some power) asked her “I hope you didn’t have to deal with too many mask Nazis?” and she apparently responded “no, thank god.” Unsurprisingly, they all voted for Trump too.
Anonymous
I’ve been on several dates with someone I like a lot and am looking for some more ideas of Covid-safe stuff to do (at home or outside, day or night). We are spending time inside but only with each other (not in public). We live in NYC and do have access to a car.
In normal times I’d probably go to concerts and museums with him–we like music and art, a bit nerdy.
Some stuff we’ve enjoyed so far:
outdoor – daytrip to sculpture garden, long walk around city with stops for food, hanging in park, outdoor restaurant dinner
indoor – getting takeout and hanging in one of our apartments, playing favorite music for one another
Evening plans that aren’t just unstructured hanging in one of our apartments seem tricky since it’s getting chilly and dark early. I would like to do or be able to suggest some more creative/interesting activities even for at home…maybe board games? I’ve thought about maybe cooking something elaborate together but neither of us is an amazing/confident cook (I’m not terrible) and unlike me he’s not a huge foodie or drinker.
anne-on
Outdoors – can you go to some of the more out of the way gardens/zoos? Bronx zoo? NY Botanical Gardens? Staten Island Botanical Gardens? Cloisters? If you’re bundled up you should be fine (and it’s been so nice out lately!)
For indoors – there are a lot of zoom cooking classes you can search out. Maybe doing a cheese tasting? Or a wine/cheese pairing led by a local cheese shop (I think Murrays was doing these?). Puzzles and board games sound fun. Maybe do a new fitness class together – yoga? meditation? Or take turns picking movies and then watching director’s commentary/reading reviews about them and talking about what you did/didn’t like?
anon
For indoor evening activities, check out virtual events by museums and concert halls, or virtual tours and pre-recorded performances. I’m sure there are lots of options in NYC, but you can look at other major cities, or at regional museums (maybe in your hometowns or where you attended college). The Smithsonian Institute has quite a few virtual events everyday, including 3-4 options most weekday evenings.
Play a card game if board games seem like too big of a time commitment or too organized of a setup. It seems simpler to set up and quicker to get into than board games, and one or two inexpensive decks of cards gives you a lot of game options.
Take turns picking out your favorite movies (or pick by genre–each pick a documentary, or artistic film, or whatever interests you).
Instead of cooking an elaborate meal, cook something fun but casual–a childhood favorite, breakfast for dinner, pizza where you buy the dough, etc.
Senior Attorney
My husband and I have been doing jigsaw puzzles together and it’s been surprisingly enjoyable. Pro tip: We especially like the ones that have writing on them, like this wine bottle puzzle: https://www.amazon.com/White-Mountain-Puzzles-Love-Wine/dp/B017LXQ9G2/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=wine+puzzle&qid=1605029570&sr=8-10
NYCer
The Met is doing timed reservations and has been absolutely empty (capacity is capped at 25%, but in reality it ends up being even emptier), so that could be an option if you’re open to an inside activity. I would imagine that other museums are the same.
Anon
For outdoors, how about hiking? Once it gets colder, you could go ice skating or take a longer drive out of the city for snowshoeing it cross-country skiing.
Indoors, I would suggest zoom comedy shows and concerts. We have also been playing a lot of board games, which has been fun
Anonymous
Is there a term for this: calmly making a seemingly innocuous comment to someone, knowing that it will get under their skin and cause an emotional reaction, to make them look crazy in front of others? Kind of gaslighting, but instead of trying to make the target feel crazy, you’re making other people think the target is crazy.
I was talking to a friend about sisters on a reality show that seem to have this dynamic. One will push the other’s buttons until she explodes and then act totally innocent like “here we go again, she’s always so emotional.” It reminded me of an abusive ex I had when I was a teenager. The friend I was talking to didn’t really understand the concept; maybe it’s hard to pick up on if you haven’t been on the receiving end of it?
Anonymous
Pushing their buttons.
BeenThatGuy
My old therapist and I used to talk about this a lot when discussing past issues with my parents She always used to say, “It’s easy for them to push your buttons because they put the buttons there”.
Vicky Austin
I love that quote. And have to remind myself of it often!
Anokha
I also love this quote!
Senior Attorney
Yes, my therapist used to say of my parents, “They know where your buttons are because they installed them!”
Thanks, it has pockets!
I think the term “crazy making” applies here.
Cat
Baiting them?
Anon
I see you’ve met my ex husband.
Friday
I prefer “baiting” to “pushing buttons.” You can push someone’s button without realizing you’re doing it. You cannot accidentally bait someone.
Anon
Needling, pushing buttons, etc.
The best way to deal with this is a stern but not rude “Enough.” If they try to act all innocent, “You know exactly what you are doing. Enough.”
Anonymous
In my experience, that response just goads them on. “What do you mean I know what I’m doing? I have no idea what you’re talking about!” *exchanges knowing glance with others present to try to make me look crazy*
Anonymous
Goading
Patricia Gardiner
Fun ideas for staying connected to family over the holidays? This will be the first year my family is not spending Christmas with my sister’s family and our mom (we all live a 3+ hr flight apart). Christmas has always been our favorite holiday. We are not traveling, but trying to think of other ways we can celebrate “together” (not necessarily kid-related; my sister and I each have a toddler).
So far I am getting the same tea advent calendar for each of us, and thinking of getting the same book for each family that grandma could read over zoom to the kids. We could also coordinate cooking at least one of the same recipe. Of course we can zoom; just trying to think of other ways to celebrate during the days surrounding Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Thank you, Hive!
Anonymous
Mail cookies!
Ribena
Getting the same tea advent calendar is really cute! There was discussion of the food angle of this on The Splendid Table last week so worth checking that out.
Anon
If the kids are old enough, maybe a flat Stanley type project? Each kid decorates one and mails to their cousin. The cousin takes Stanley to whatever holiday traditions they’re doing this year (cutting down a Christmas tree, decorating the house, looking at the lights in the park, going ice skating, whatever your family normally does), takes pictures, and then sends Stanley, the pictures, (and maybe a treat – so if Flat Stanley helped the your kid bake cookies, when you send it back to the cousin you’ll include some of those cookies) back to the cousin? Maybe grandma can do it too?
After the toddlers in bed, maybe Netflix Party a favorite holiday movie with your mom and sister with a favorite holiday beverage or snack?
Anon
Can you share the link to the tea advent calendar? This sounds like such a cute idea!
Anon
+1
Anonymous
Not OP, but this is the one I’ve had my eye on when it hopefully comes back in stock. https://www.davidstea.com/us_en/24-days-of-tea/
Patricia Gardiner
Thank you for the ideas! We will definitely try these too :)
For the poster who asked for the advent calendar link:
https://www.adagio.com/gifts/tea_advent_calendar.html
Haven’t tried them yet but this seemed like a reasonable price/quality.
Anon
I realized lately that I”m not as happy/lighthearted as I used to be. I still have fun, laugh, enjoy things but I’ve developed an edge to me. The jokes I make are more biting, I’m less patient with coworkers screwing things up, I don’t roll with the punches as well when something goes wrong, I’ve become way more judgmental, I’m just more bitter.
I don’t think this is a mental health thing, I think it’s probably a really hard year has hardened me but obviously, I don’t like it. In addition to the general 2020 sucks, my work has been busier/more stressful than ever and I work in a really sexist/toxic workplace. The combination of everything 2020 + working longer, harder hours with people I’m constantly butting heads with + not doing the things I enjoy because of COVID has probably just worn me down.
What can I do to become less harsh? I do as many things that I enjoy as I can, but admittedly most things I like aren’t super COVID friendly.
anon
Boy, I relate to this way too much. You probably are worn the eff out, which is affecting your overall demeanor. I have had to make a conscious effort to “see the good” and not focus as much on the bad, which is plentiful. This may not apply to you, but I had to scale way back on my social media usage. Biting snark is everywhere, and while I enjoy it, it does not help my attitude one bit. There are certain accounts that feel soooo cathartic in the moment but end up changing my base mindset in some not-so-flattering ways. If that’s you, try find some more, um, positive replacements for that content. And, I would do whatever you need to do to manage your stress, whether it’s by taking time off, exercising, whatever.
Anonie
Since mental health keeps coming up on the board today, I would suggest that this *might* indeed be a “mental health thing.” Before my depression was under control, developing a bit of this edge you describe was often a warning sign to myself that I was about to slip into depression. Sometimes (not always) being aware helped me nip it in the bud.
Regardless, I hope you can take some time to do something you enjoy today or tomorrow. Whether or not you work from home, consider taking 1 day off this week or next to relax, watch something funny, have a phone date with a friend, etc.
Anon
+1 This is a symptom of depression for me.
Anon
I’ll look into the depression possibility, but usually depression/anxiety flare ups present differently to me.
In the meantime, appreciate any tips to be less grouchy.
CountC
Yes, this is also a sign of depression/anxiety for me. In the meantime, you need to develop a process where you stop yourself and count to 10 or whatever before you make the comment to give yourself a chance to decide if it’s really worth it. Similar to typing out the email/writing the nasty letter but then not sending it.
Abby
I highly recommend listing 3 things you’re grateful for each day, either to your family, or write it in a journal.
Monte
So neither of these things work for me, but things that have worked for friends are the gratitude journal idea mentioned above and doing a vision board so that you can think about your dreams and plan out concrete actions to get there.
Personally, when I realized I was much less sunnier and way too bitter, I was eventually able to pinpoint it to my job. Took a smidge of time to find a new gig, but once I started actually looking and had some nibbles, my attitude turned around almost immediately.
American Giant Squeeze
Do American Giant Ponte pants stretch out? I bought two pairs, in my normal size, as most reviews said they run TTS. Even though I am down about ten pounds, and these are my pre weight loss size, they are just SO tight. Not a huge fan of compression fabrics, (like Spanx, or the panel in NYDJ) so maybe this is just not the brand for me. If you have experience with this brand, will you let me know if I should persist or simply gift them to a smaller friend?
anonymice
Day late, so not sure you’ll see this, but– I have three pairs of pants from American Giant (not the Ponte pants though): joggers, leggings, and the wider leg sweatpants. I wouldn’t say any of them are TTS. I am, across the board, a M on my lower half. For all three pairs of American Giant pants, I bought the L. Even their hoodies run a bit small.
Retinol question
I’m 41 and just finished with babies and breastfeeding. I started using retinol at night to try to address some melasma on my cheeks and chin that has popped up in the last year or two. I’ve been using the retinol nightly for about two weeks now, and also using a vitamin C serum daily. Two things–I think I have Teflon skin or something because this has not irritated my skin in the slightest. And second, I’m not noticing much difference yet. I know it’s only been two weeks but how do you know the retinol is working? Do have to wait up to 6 weeks to see results? Should I be concerned that the daily/nightly use doesn’t seem to bother my skin? FWIW, I’ve never had sensitive skin. I’m Latina, with skin coloring about the same as Eva Longoria or Salma Hayek (not that I look like them, ha). Does retinol not work as well on darker skin? Using Sunday Riley for both, if that makes a difference.
anon
You should look into getting a prescription-strength retinoid. Far more effective and cheaper too.
Diana Barry
+1. The OTC stuff never did much for me. I have a tretinoin rx and can see that the tiny line under my eye is less now!
Anon
+2 try curology. They’ll give you a combo to address your concerns, which will include prescription ingredients like tretinoin.
Be really clear about what you’d like it to address. They have you send pics.
Retinol takes something like 6 months to have a mild tretinoin-like effect. It’s better to get the real stuff.
Sunshine71
Second the recommendation for a prescription retinol. I use Curology. Once you can tolerate the retinol every night, you can ask to move up to a higher dose. It’s good to start slow. I worked up from like 0.01% to 0.07% tretinoin over a few months and I use the 0.07% every other night now.
Anon
It took months of both prescription retinol and 4% hydroquinone to get rid of my melasma. Two weeks with OTC stuff likely won’t make a dent, like others, I suggest switching to prescription. Also be sure to use tons of sunblock!
Work to Workout Bras
Any recommendations on bras that I can wear under work clothes, that are also okay for light working out? I am trying to get in a walk almost every day, and for a variety of reasons it often has to be during the workday (not at the beginning or end). I have been changing in and out of sports bras to do this, but I don’t really have time to change multiple times a day. If I find a free hour, I want to take off the jacket I am wearing, throw on a hoodie, and head out (already wearing tennis shoes during WFH). My sports bras are too bulky or garish to wear underneath my top, but my regular bras don’t provide enough support to walk for a good hour. Anyone cracked the code of a bra you can wear under professional looking clothes, with enough support to hold things firm when I walk?
Anon
Coobie.
anon
Coobie or really any bralette. I prefer the Jockey ones.
Anonymous
Coobie isn’t supportive enough for me while walking (C/D cup), but there is an Athleta “everyday” (I think?) bra that works better for this purpose. It’s not amazing, but it’s fine as long as I’m walking and not running.
Monte
I use a number of the low-medium impact Athleta bras as well — I could never go for a run in them (FF/G cup), but they are fine for walking and comfortable for around the house.
kag
My normal bra is definitely supportive enough for an hour of walking. Are you sure that your bra size is right? My truely supportive bra size is 65 F/G (European size). I could fit in 75 D instead and it technically fits by breast, but it does not hold them well, so they move when walking, etc.
Anon
Maybe a different style regular br@? I think Chantelle has a minimizer that might give extra support.
Anon
I was thrilled to come across coobies for 2.99 at job lots this weekend. I got one with skinny racerback straps and it’s great.
Coach Laura
I like the Bali Comfort Revolution wireless or wired or ComfortFlex fit.
Anon
My husband has requested new sweatshirts for Christmas. He adores his American Giant hoodie, but apparently they don’t make crewneck pull-over sweatshirts. Is there another brand that offers that style, in a similar quality? Nothing fancy, just plain solid colors in a high-quality cotton jersey knit.
(Also note that he is a small-framed guy and we tend to share clothing, so women’s brands are fine too.)
Anonymous
Kiel James Patrick might fit the bill. I think some of their stuff is still American-made too.
anne-on
I’d check Polo/Ralph Lauren (my source for good quality sweatpants), Vineyard Vines, and Champion (they’re popular again according to my cool niece and have some interesting collaborations).
Maudie Atkinson
I would also look at Everlane.
Anon
Champion or Hanes
Anonymous
i just got my husband sweatshirts from tentree bc theyre sustainable and plant trees with every purchase… i didnt expect the reception they would get, he’s obsessed and insisted on ordering two more, and then he bought them for my in laws for their anniversary lol
Anon
I posted about an awards event we skipped where my husband was supposed to get an award. I posted that a couple days later the hosts informed everyone they tested positive for COVID. Many here asked for follow up on whether the other attendees got it. No one has come forth to say they also got it but there also hasn’t been any mass message of phew, glad no one else got it. We assume other people would disclose if they tested positive too but there is no guarantee. That’s the update!
From what I understand, the event was outside for the most part (indoors for bathrooms or helping carrying food/drink) but no masks outdoors.
Anon
If you weren’t there, why would anybody be telling you their covid status? Especially since all you want it for is to gloat.
Anon
Oh Jesus, we don’t want to gloat at all. These are people we care about and wouldn’t want them ill. The communications about the COVID positive host were on the same group email they use for all other communications for the organization. I doubt anyone was going to go in and delete people from the group list that weren’t at the event.
I also only followed up here because people asked me to and I think they wanted me to for anecdotal purposes.
Anonymous
How was your travel vacation? Are you wondering if anybody’s sick as a result?
Anonymous
What are the best Boston area firms for tax counsel? For businesses/employers not individuals
Senior Attorney
Kitty update: We picked up Felix and Oscar at the Humane Society on Saturday and they are shut up in the guest room until they get comfortable. They hide under the bed when we come in, but apparently (today is Day Three) they are partying pretty heartily when we aren’t there. This morning the lampshade was askew, they had batted one of their little fuzzy balls under the door and out into the hallway (it started at the top of the cat condo so yay — they’re using it!), the bed pillows looked like they’d slept on them, and they had eaten all their wet and dry food and used both litter boxes. So I’m calling it a big win.
Hubby says he doesn’t believe there are any cats because he hasn’t seen them yet, heh. I say if they’re this entertaining when we can’t see them, just think how great it’ll be when they come out!
former guest room occupant
I just texted you but want everyone to know (yes I am bragging) that SA and hubs are the best hosts ever and those kitties should be ashamed. Being kitties, of course they will never know shame.
Senior Attorney
HAHAHA! You were a better guest for sure. They didn’t even bring a hostess gift. (Although knowing cats’ taste in gifts I should be greateful for that!)
Anonymous
+1 be grateful the cats didn’t bless you with a bird or mouse!
Anon
Ha! Yes you are better off without a kitty hostess gift. Cat, “Here is a fresh dead mouse, still warm, just for you. You can eat it now or let it delicately age for a day or two.”
A
How cute
Anonymous
Sounds like you’ve got two Oscars!
Anon
If you go in to the room to visit, bring a book so you can stay a while and sit on the floor to read it. The kittens will get curious about you. Especially if you play with the string/stick toy.
I’m so glad it’s going well!
Amber
So happy to see this update!!