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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Fringe Trim Open Jacket

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I always thing of IRO as having amazing leather jackets, but this fringe-trim open jacket is really nice too, and I like the dark red “grenadine” color. It's made from a cotton-rich knit, which is great for this time of year, and the few reviews it has so far are positive. It's $380 at Nordstrom. Fringe Trim Open Jacket For something more affordable, try these options: Elie Tahari, Club Monaco, or Shoptiques. For plus sizes, ASOS has a boucle jacket that goes up to size 22 (well, 24, but that size is sold out), and Talbots has another option. This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 1/16/25:

  • M.M.LaFleur – Tag sale for a limited time — jardigans and dresses $200, pants $150, tops $95, T-shirts $50
  • Nordstrom – Cashmere on sale; AllSaints, Free People, Nike, Tory Burch, and Vince up to 60%; beauty deals up to 25% off
  • AllSaints – Clearance event, now up to 70% off (some of the best leather jackets!)
  • Ann Taylor – Up to 40% off your full-price purchase; extra 50% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Boden – 15% off new styles with code — readers love this blazer, these dresses, and their double-layer line of tees
  • DeMellier – Final reductions now on, free shipping and returns — includes select options like Montreal, Vancouver, and Venice
  • Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; extra 50% off all clearance, plus ELOQUII X kate spade new york collab just dropped
  • Everlane – Sale of the year, up to 70% off; new markdowns just added
  • J.Crew – Up to 40% off select styles; up to 50% off cashmere
  • J.Crew Factory – 40-70% off everything
  • L.K. Bennett – Archive sale, almost everything 70% off
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Sephora – 50% off top skincare through 1/17
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Summersalt – BOGO sweaters, including this reader-favorite sweater blazer; 50% off winter sale; extra 15% off clearance
  • Talbots – Semi-Annual Red Door Sale – 50% off + extra 20% off, sale on sale, plus free shipping on $150+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

307 Comments

  1. I’m leaving for some international travel on Sunday and didn’t realize until this morning that I don’t have a credit card that doesn’t have international fees. I’m an idiot. Does anyone have a sense for the amount of time it takes from applying for a card to having the card in-hand, assuming it can be expedited somehow? Do you think I’m out of luck, or is there any sense in applying today?

    1. I think it’s too short notice but it can’t hurt to a) call capital one and ask and b) call your regular cards and see if they would be willing to waive the fees.

    2. It took me less than a week to get my Chase Sapphire card. The approval is instant and it seemed like they put it in the mail the very next day. I have also had Amex next-day replacement cards to me, so that may be something you can request of them if you’re applying for an Amex.

    3. I feel like my capital one card came immediately when I requested one for that reason. They really want you to start using it asap! I would apply this morning.

    5. Almost any card you can call and ask to have it expedited for this reason — Chase and Amex are both good. If you don’t have a Chase Sapphire it’s also a great opportunity to get the sign-up bonus (or for any of these cards!)

      1. I would caution against Amex for international travel – it’s not accepted everywhere. I love my Chase Sapphire though.

    6. You can also open up a checking account that has no international fees – those cards are issued on-site.

    7. If you want to do Amex, call them and explain the situation — apply by phone; you’ll be approved right then; and Amex has FedEx-ed cards to me on more than one occasion including when I had the same international travel situation (and I wasn’t an Amex card holder then – I was a new applicant).

    8. Even if your card doesn’t come in time, the fees really aren’t that high– usually 1-3%. If you spend $5k on your trip, you’re looking at an extra $150 in fees. Not nothing, but in the context of paying for international travel, it might not be worth stressing over if you don’t get it done.

    9. Thanks, all. I just applied for a card and they say it should arrive in 2-3 business days. Fingers crossed!

  2. What are everyone’s thoughts about a Master of Professional Studies vs a Master of Science or Master of Arts…I am very interested in an MPS degree from Georgetown but I’m hesitant that employers will think less of it compared to the traditional MS/MA. From what I understand, MPS degree programs target professionals in a specialized industry and feature more hands-on projects, whereas MS/MA emphasize theory and research. I’ve asked a few people and they had never heard of an MPS degree, which I didn’t take as a good sign. Obviously all are still master’s degrees, but does an MPS appear less legitimate?

    1. I’ve never heard of it so I would question it’s legitimacy on it’s face. That said, if you get it from a very reputable school like Georgetown that is clearly not a diploma mill, then I would give it some weight. I would definitely check the program on the university website though to understand what is means whereas I would not feel the need to look up an MA/MSc

    3. I have an MPS from the Large State School where I did my undergraduate degrees and found the degree helped, not hurt, in my job search (I work in the national security field). I think they are becoming increasingly common as schools brand out in to graduate education for populations that might otherwise not return to graduate school, including programs that balance continuing to work while attending school part-time.

      You can get an MA/MS from predatory for-profit institutions as well so I would let the reputation of the school be the primary guiding factor.

    4. I would talk with the program and see where graduates end up. Does the program include an internship or other opportunity to get relevant work experience? Ask if there are alumni you can reach out to and see what they are doing with their degree. Before investing the time and money to get a graduate degree, I would be very careful and intentional about whether that degree will get you where you want to be in your career.

    5. I think they’re cash cows for the universities that have them. That doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t get anything out of them, but it might not be worth what you pay for.

      2. They were not really highly thought of when I was at the University of Chicago (in the 2000s) for the same reason that Dallas provides – they’re expensive and seem to provide a “from this school” degree without the same level of rigor of other programs.

  3. I like the white Club Monaco alternative but I would have to have the sleeve fringe cut off at a tailor’s. Although since most sleeves are too long on me, this may actually work out length wise.

  4. Has anyone tried the Tone it Up nutrition plan? I like their videos and have done some research but I wanted to see if anyone had used it before dropping the $$

    1. I’m also interested in seeing what people have to say. I’ve been interested in the TIU nutrition plan for a while and do their videos sometimes, but haven’t quite felt convinced enough to buy the plan.

      1. I mean – just based off of how they look, i’m guessing is the plan is along the lines of “Eat healthy food, but not quite as much as your body actually needs…”

        1. One thing about them is that they do seem to be promoting an “ultra-lean” lifestyle, which is fine, but isn’t for me. You can tell with their whole aesthetic that they’re super low body fat. Not sure if this translates to a plan to get the “ultra lean” look or just to lose weight/be healthier.

    2. I bought it but was never really clicked on it/felt compelled to use it. But it seems some of the people in that community REALLY LOVE IT, so, YMMV.

      1. Yes, it seems this way as well. I’m less bothered to buy it because I do like their videos/content and I like supporting women-owned small businesses. But if it’s a load of rubbish then that would be a waste of $150.

        1. If you want it for the recipes, then it’s worth it.

          I don’t think it’s $150 of stuff you couldn’t find yourself online.

    3. I haven’t purchased it but when I was first starting to lift weights / try to track macros I looked into it and have used a bunch of their sample recipes. I ultimately decided that their recipes included way too many different / nonstandard / expensive ingredients that I otherwise wasn’t stocking.

      I have had a lot of good recipe etc. help from both bodybuilding.com (who has free exercise and nutrition plans that sync with the bodyspace app)as well as lauren gleisberg / fitnessblender recipes as they tend to be healthified versions of normal stuff that I / my husband would otherwise want to eat. Lauren Gleisberg has a meal plan that is much cheaper than tone it up’s.

      Worth noting that it always irked me that the tone it up folks were pictured on their instagram often back in the day (before their PR got better) doing more traditional weight training and not doing their own workouts.

    4. I had a friend do it in law school. It seemed really high maintenance–like she was always making curried apple slaw and protein pancakes. She was spending a fortune on groceries. She said she did it to feel better, not to lose weight, and she did end up feeling better, but it seemed really pricy. She also had to have a different instagram account to get all social-media-y into it. It just seemed like a lot for a diet. I guess…whatever works?

    5. I have it and I like the access to recipes. It’s only $150 if you buy the “packages” otherwise it’s $99. You get lifetime updates. I really like the lean versions of recipes that they provide, but MANY of them are protein powder-dependent. If I’m trying to eat healthier I’ll pull up their recipe guides and start following them. I don’t regret the purchase.

      1. +1. I have been following the free TIU content for years, but I bought the nutrition plan about a year ago. I don’t regret the purchase, but I do agree with others that it depends what you’re looking for.

        A LOT of the nutrition plan focuses on information about nutrition/macros. I already track my nutrition/macros using MyFitnessPal, so I didn’t fit that portion of the plan to be super helpful.

        The recipes are mostly high protein, high (good) fat, low carb meals. Almost all of the breakfast items include their TIU protein powder, which isn’t cheap, but it does taste really good. (It’s a plant based protein, so it doesn’t have the chalky taste other protein powders have IMO.) Other recipes also tend to include more expensive items (e.g. tahini, grapeseed oil, chia seeds). Overall, the recipes are hit or miss IMO. I really like the breakfast recipes and make those regularly (chickpea-based muffins FTW), but only a few lunch and dinner recipes have made it into the regular rotation. I also agree with others who have said that the recipes aren’t so unique that you couldn’t find something similar on the internet.

        What I have found to be helpful are the “series” challenges. Each season they do a 6-8 week challenge, and encourage participants to track their progress. Anyone can sign up and get the daily exercise routines, but nutrition plan members get weekly grocery lists and a meal plan for each week with all of the recipes included. I still sub/modify some of the recipes, but it is really nice to have them meal plan for me for a couple months. My husband has joined me a few times, and it’s nice to be able to do it together. (Disclaimer: some of the instructions/recipes are very “girly” and a bit juvenile. For example, I crack up every time he says he’s going to make himself a “Sassy Scramble” and asks if I want one.) I have seen results each time I have closely followed a series challenge, and the community aspect of it is kind of fun. I should note though that I don’t do the exercise routines because I do Orange Theory Fitness instead, so I’m not sure if that would affect results.

  5. Please help. I seem to have lived 40 years on this earth without ever seeing a mouse in my residence…until this morning. :( It was a small one and it scurried into a crevice in the kitchen. We live in an old rental building in the city, on the first floor, so I can’t be too surprised. But needless to say, I am terrified and sent out a scream that woke up my husband and the kids.

    One problem that I already know we need to fix is that we have open cubbies with food like crackers and such. We are going to move those items to plastic containers with air tight seals.

    I have already reached out to building maintenance.

    What else should we do? I have two young kids and am worried about using some poison that the kids will ingest. Are traps the answer? Any “natural” remedies?

    I am unreasonably terrified here, so I greatly appreciate all and any advice.

    1. We just went through this! It gets better!

      First thing you need to do is to close up all the holes where they are getting in. We had an “eco green” exterminator come by and they basically examined the whole apartment and sealed up every single small hole, of which we apparently had plenty. The whole thing wasn’t cheap ($400) but worth it because I didn’t just want to have our building exterminator come and spray poison everywhere since we also have small kids and pets. Anyway, the exterminator put up a couple of “humane” quick-kill snap traps and also offered to have a bait box which we declined with the understanding that we could change our mind if first steps didn’t work. I also ordered a couple of “no-kill” catch and release traps on amazon. The mice largely managed to avoid the snap traps but we ended up catching a whole bunch with the amazon traps and letting them out across the street from our building. I was comfortable that they wouldn’t be able to get back in, at least not to my apartment. In total it took a while – maybe 3 weeks? – but we haven’t seen any mice evidence since, knock wood, so I feel good that we got rid of them all. For the interim period, I did hide all the easily accessible food and made sure not to leave any pet food out overnight. If you’re in NY, I’m happy to post the number for the service we used. And if it’s any comfort – mice are very good about not being detected generally, so you probably won’t just see them all the time. We actually wouldn’t have discovered them at all if a friend didn’t notice mice droppings by our stove; I just thought it was a bit of spilled coffee grinds.

      1. +1

        These are what we use and are perfect for apartments, smaller houses. Non-toxic, safe around kids. And they really work, but you must read the instructions and place them appropriately. They have to be open to the room/not obstructed, probably one in each room where you have seen a mouse etc…

        And maintenance should seal up every place they are sneaking in. Important spots are under the sink around plumbing, and baseboards in the kitchen. The maintenance guy for the building will immediately know the vulnerable spots.

        Yes, definitely seal up all food, clean kitchen well at the end of each day. No crumbs.

    3. In addition to keeping food sealed, the most important thing is to find the entry/exit location and get it sealed up. In an old building there might be cracks, but often you (maintenance) can find a noticeable hole where they are getting in.

    4. Please do not use poison or glue traps, they are so cruel! It’s a good idea to put all of your food in air-tight containers. Can you block the crevice in the kitchen and any other holes they might be coming in from? As far as natural remedies, a cat will usually keep rodents and insects away, but I would not suggest getting a cat simply for rodent control if you don’t otherwise want a pet.

    5. Snap traps with peanut butter. This is not a catch and release scenario.

      I have heard that peppermint will discourage them – I know at one point my mom used unwrapped peppermint Lifesavers (the blue bag) in the bottom cupboards that had food in them, though I don’t know what the result was. But ultimately what got rid of the mice was residing the house, as it was an opportunity to fill entrance holes.

      1. I posted a longer response that hasn’t shown up yet but disagree that you can’t catch and release. I just did this successfully for about 13 mice that took up residence in my kitchen. I’ll retype what we did if the response doesn’t show up soon.

      2. Yes, I’ve also used have a heart traps successfully (id be nervous of snap traps around small kids too). Key is to release them a good distance away. We drive to a wooded park a mile or so down the road.

      3. Also, you can find peppermint oil if you go that route. I’d be afraid of swapping mice for ants with unwrapped candy

      4. I agree, a friend had mice, and caught them alive. For curiosity, they marked the back of one of them with spray paint, and proceeded to release them 30 miles away. They were back within a few days.

        1. 30 miles away? seriously? i don’t think a mouse can travel 30 miles in a few days, let alone return to the same exact house.

          What you teach your kids at this age has a big impact. I think you should teach them that you don’t kill animals who aren’t really hurting you when there is a humane solution.

          1. Also: even taking this at face value, all it means is that you need to also seal off the entry points to your house/apartment as part of whatever plan you choose. It doesn’t make any difference if the same mouse is getting in or new mice are coming in. Mice are clearly in your area. You need to make your dwelling inaccessible and then get the mice that may be sealed inside as a result out of there.

          2. Isn’t “aren’t hurting you” sort of vague?

            Dead mice put flies on the alert and they they lay eggs and there is nothing nastier than finding a dead mouse full of pulsing maggots that rupture the skin as you try to get the nasty carcass out of your basement.

            Flies are a big vector for carrying diseases and like mice are incontinent (so they land on the dead mouse and then your cheeseburger . . .).

            KILL THEM ALL.

          3. Hahaha, you’re so cute. I DGAF about mouse lives. They spread disease. They draw other vermin to the house. They need to go live somewhere where I am not also living. Or they need to die. Either way.

            Also, while your tender little heart may love the mice, your neighbors might not. Even if you choose not to kill them, your neighbors probably will – and they’ll also be pretty upset with you for not taking care of the problem.

            For the OP – we got mice in our shed (we never saw them in the house, thankfully) and our exterminator used a combination of snap traps and poison bait (placed where children and pets couldn’t reach) to solve the issue. Call an exterminator. Worth every penny to have the problem get solved.

          5. I cannot stand the people who catch and release. You know why? Because SOMEONE ELSE LIVES NEAR WHEREVER YOU DROP THE @_)@ CREATURES!! I live in the country, and people keep “humanely” releasing their trapped raccoons, groundhogs, possums, and god only knows what else practically on my doorstep. One of the raccoons proceeded to open my daughters rabbit cages and rip the head off of one of her show rabbits. Guess what, you can drop the things in the country all you want. As soon as they show up on my property, I’m going to do my best to trap and kill them.

    6. Hi, they call me Max but my name is really Kingsley. You can call me King. I’m here at the animal shelter waiting for you. In exchange for regular food and water, I will guarantee you never have a mouse problem again.

      I look a little rough and tumble from my years on the street, and I will admit I’m missing part of an ear, but all I really want is a warm lap to lay on and the occasional mouse-flavored midnight snack. Yum.

        1. My dog broke into a humane trap (in a spot we thought he couldn’t get to – but he was motivated!) this weekend and let the damn mouse free to run right back under the cupboard. He’s worse than useless. He’s a good warning system for telling us exactly where/when the mice have shown up again, though (building-wide problems, our neighboring unit is vacant, it’s a whole thing…).

      2. Ha! Son is allergic to cats. :)

        Thank you all for the helpful comments so far! Really appreciate it.

      3. We had a stray (found in trashcan) for most of my childhood and he was an excellent mouser and I adored him. Things I adored less: stepping into my shower as an eight year old and finding a semi-decapitated mouse that had dragged itself around the tub, covering it in bloody streaks. Also finding out darling kitten had hidden one of his other kills under the bed in my dollhouse and it had begun to rot there. Do not recommend a cat + small children unless you plan to be vigilant on finding all of the cat’s conquest before your kids do.

      4. Yeah, I have 3 cats, and only one can catch mice. Finding out your cat is a great mouser is also kind of a double edged sword…I kind of preferred pretending we didn’t have mice and the cat just had an odd fixation with staring at that one corner of the kitchen. Also, the cat doesn’t always finish the mice off – they love to present you with a partially dead mouse. Or in my case, the cat brought it to my 2 year old son.

  6. We received a photoshoot gift recently. I’ve never done anything like this outside of our wedding photos.
    I’m excited and would love to have a nice shot of my whole family but a question: how do we avoid it looking cheesy? Ideally I’d use the final photo for a holiday card but I tend to find the photos I get in all of ours to be a little basic, if that word makes sense here.

    I know photography has come a long way from the Sears portrait studio days but to me these photos often have a similar vibe, just dressed up in a nicer aesthetic. I looked through the photographer’s portfolio online and the pics are all beautiful but definitely not my style – it’s all very color coordinated outfits, moms with professional make up and blow outs, husbands looking a bit a neutered, and everyone perfectly touched up. Tips on how to have professional photos that still look natural?

    2. Don’t get a blowout or professional makeup and don’t make the whole family wear matching outfits? The things you’re objecting to aren’t things the photog did, they are choices that the subjects made and you can make different ones.

      1. This. Choose clothing in the same color family and same level of formality but not matching/identical.

        Outdoor action shots can capture nice spontaneous moments.

        1. Agreed. Coordinate outfits, don’t match them. You can get as formal/informal as you like.

          In terms of nice spontaneous moments, I’d try to relax and have fun with your spouse and kids – make jokes, play games. I agree that outdoors is great, but if there is another location that you all particularly enjoy, that could be good too.

    3. Can you have them do candids of an activity – maybe going for a hike or similar?

      1. A photographer friend of mine recently posted some shots on Facebook of a family cake fight photo shoot. I thought it was an original idea.

    4. Yeah this comes across as a little smug. By definition, a posed picture is going to look less natural than a candid shot. The best advice you’re going to get is to search online or Pinterest to find some pics you like and try to recreate those.

      Some choices you can make – have everyone wear whatever they put on that day. Brush your teeth and hair, but otherwise do minimal grooming. Walk around and ask the photographer to just get some shots if she can. Or you can pick a theme. You can all dress up as elves and bring fake wrapped presents, or put on cowboy boots and pose against a barn. It’s all your choice to make this look however you’d like.

      1. Sorry, not my intent to sound smug or judgmental here. I guess maybe I am asking how to avoid falling into the traps of an aesthetic that I don’t personally enjoy? Like, I want my hair to look nice and I want all of us too look good I just don’t want it to feel so “produced.” I think it’s easier with wedding pictures because you sort of have a uniform on, but Sunday in the park is a little bit different.

        1. I think the thing is, everyone wants that. That different look you want is exactly what everyone else was going for too. Just embrace it!

        2. I mean, it’s kind of a choice between looking better but less natural than normal or looking equally natural but no better than you look on a daily basis. You can ask the photographer to use a light hand with the editing tools but then you may be disappointed in how you look. Most professional photos are heavily edited and make people look like more attractive versions of themselves – that’s why people love them so much.

          1. This. I love photography and have thought about starting a business, but I don’t like either the heavily processed aesthetic or the work of creating it. I’m sure I couldn’t make much money with my natural style.

        3. I would try to do outdoor pictures, not in a studio. Wear casual outfits (I would still get my hair and makeup done professionally, because why not, but request a natural look) and tell the photographer you prefer a candid photo style. Your local park or even your backyard/porch would be a good backdrop. If you have a dog, they always make pictures even cuter. I like pictures where everyone isn’t necessarily looking at the camera – maybe your husband is looking at you while you laugh with the kids, or something like that.

      2. Yeah at first I thought it was harsh too, but the first family photo that came to mind was my coworker’s, where he and his family are all wearing chambray and white and are on the beach. It is So. Not. Him. And I totally get what you mean by neutered. I want to actually giggle when I see it in his office. I don’t think he and his family have ever been to the beach except for the family photos.

        So I think most photographers will take a few silly poses just to get everyone relaxed and genuinely smiling. You might choose one of those for your xmas card and then save a more serious shot for the one you get framed.

        I find the most natural pictures don’t have everyone looking at the camera. I have a pic of myself with my oldest when she was a 12 months old baby. It was not my intention to be in the photo but she was not having it, so I got in to hold her. The photo we chose is one where she’s looking at a toy and I’m looking at her. It’s really beautiful and natural looking and I love it best of all the photos we have.

        1. Literally this picture is in the officer of every male law firm partner in Atlanta.

          1. And every Christmas card my parents get (ok, it’s changed a bit in recent years, but when I was growing up, seriously, every one). It appears to be the official family portrait of Georgia.

    5. Let your kids where everyday clothes they are used to. If they feel comfortable they will act comfortable. I would talk to the photographer about how you want some candid pics first- maybe you bake together, play a favorite board game or legislative together, go play on a playground etc. then once everyone is acting normal around the photographer at the end do some seated portraits for the Christmas card and everyone will act more natural around her.

      1. I love the image of a family hanging out at the kitchen table legislating together!

        But I think the advice to put the kids in something they’re comfortable in is great.

        Also, I hate professional photos when they’re taken, but with the passage of time I stop seeing the cheesy and just really appreciate having a record of the moment… You can literally get prints and put them in a drawer, and maybe in a few years you’ll see more of “oh Jane was so tiny!” than “ah this is so cheesy!”

      2. We have a photographer who takes pictures in our home and she’s wonderful – the photos are much more natural and I treasure them. The only downside is having to scrub the house before she comes!

    6. Tell the photographer what you want. Do you want candid photos? Do you want more news journalism style or do you want those photos were the light is bouncing off your kids head as they are picky a dandelion in the field? Do you want a full, family photo or a couple photos of say you playing with your children in the park? Look through the photographer’s work, and tell the photographer I really liked projects x, y, z but projects a, b, c aren’t my style.

    7. I was worried about this same issue. We did a candid shoot at our home, just hanging out on a regular Saturday, and it turned out amazing. Yes I blowdried my hair and made sure the kid’s clothes were clean, but otherwise we basically spent an hour hanging out at home in our favorite rooms/doing our favorite activities (reading books, baking/cooking, playing with toys, petting the dog, etc.) while the photographer snapped photos. More of a day in the life shoot than a special occasion shoot.

      1. +100 to doing them in your own home

        I think part of the awkwardness in most “posed” photo shoots comes from being somewhere public and/or unfamiliar, especially if your kids are young. It’s hard to look natural in a park or on a beach when you feel like you’re “on display”. Also, that’s how you get cheesy poses, because there’s no natural thing to be doing – like “oh, we always walk in a straight line with the five of us looking at each other and laughing!”

    8. I agree, and I don’t like highly stylized, posed pictures either. It always makes me think of the Amish belief that photos steal a piece of your soul.

      I think just wear what you want, do your hair how you want, and invite the photog to take shots of you guys doing normal stuff. Eating breakfast as a family, hanging out watching TV, going to the playground, walking the dog. You might get some nice candid shots and they might turn out a little funny or tongue-in-cheek. It’s free so if you hate them, who cares? A good photographer can make mundane situations look beautiful through angles and light, so don’t feel like you have to do what is now accepted as a “perfect” family photo.

      1. The Amish do NOT believe that photos steal a piece of your soul. They believe that taking photos of people raises those individuals up in a way that conflicts with biblical mandates of humility, and they believe that photographs of people constitute “graven images”, also biblically forbidden. Their objections to photos have nothing whatsoever to do with the idea that taking a photo of someone steals all or part of that person’s soul.

    9. I like candids. Looking happy without **SMILING** also goes a long way, in my opinion!

    10. Sorry to chime in so late, but you could also use this for documenting a party or your family. We had a professional photographer at my son’s birthday party when he was 3. It was just a party at home but the photographer was able to get pictures of the guests and my relatives. That was 9 years ago (!), and I am very glad I did it.

  7. Have any of you ever had hemorrhoids removed? I have some god-awful ones thanks to childbirth, and I’m considering having them removed. I’m so tired of being in pain from them, and I can’t continue taking ibuprofen every day to dull the pain. Rubber band ligation seems to be the best way to remove them, but I’m concerned that it either won’t work or will cause more pain.

    1. Usually they improve once the cause is removed (pregnancy/childbirth). They haven’t regressed on their own? How long have you been struggling with this?

      What kind of doctor is advising you?

      I wouldn’t jump to surgery, honestly. Especially if it has only been weeks/months. Use Miralax as needed to keep things low straining bowel wise. Use topicals for relief after you do your business (steroids or phenylephrine containing ones help the most and ask your doc for advice on how often to take). You can safely take these much more often than the instructions indicate, but be more cautious with the steroid ones.

      Why can’t you take ibuprofen? How much are you taking? Yes, I would continue to take it rather than have surgery. Try alternating with tylenol and use topicals to help with the inflammation.

      I have family members that have struggled with severe, severe hemorrhoids for years, so I hear you. See an expert doctor for advice (colorectal surgeon…. not a little clinic that makes money on banding).

      What does your OB say?

      1. I’m 3 months PP, unfortunately they haven’t cleared up and topicals do absolutely nothing. I’ve only chatted with my OB about them briefly, but plan to discuss them with her further at my next visit. I will definitely do more research and speak to an expert before undergoing any procedures.

    2. Maybe try transitioning away from a standard American diet and to a whole foods plant based diet? Hubs had very persistent hemorrhoids for a while and he switched to my WFPB diet and it curred them. His doctor told him fibre was really important to solve the problem so I took that idea and ran with it.

      1. Polite but annoyed eyeroll….do we know the OP isn’t already on this? Nope. We get it: Americans and Americans only eat garbage and don’t understand that fiber is good for you. Glad that worked for your husband but like, he didn’t give birth, yeah?

      2. I am giving all the side-eye to this comment.

        Were you trying to come off as annoyingly sanctimonious and tone-deaf, here? Because that’s what happened, whether you intended that or not.

        1. That is literally what it is academically referred to in medical literature. Sorry for being accurate.

    3. I am also considering surgery. My doctor said he is fine with that (and he’s in no way a “drugs/surgery first” doctor). He suggested an herbal supplement, which I will be starting on soon as he didn’t want me to take it while nursing. So I am trying that, and if doesn’t help relatively quickly, I am definitely doing surgery. I am almost 15 m PP and EXTREMELY TIRED OF THIS. They have not improved at all in the last 8 or so months.

        1. Yes! I can’t remember off the top of my head, but I will find out and ping you when I get it.

    4. About ten years ago I had some removed that were internal and causing persistent bleeding. I had the rubber band ligation done and it really was not bad. The timing was kind of funny/awful but I actually had it done the week before my wedding and it was totally fine. The worst part was the prep, but that was just a few hours of discomfort. I passed the hemorrhoids within a week or so and did not have any complications. It may not be the same if yours are more external – I assume the pain factor is different – but one would think they’d give you some decent pain relievers for recovery.

    5. My doctor says rubber band will only work on internal ones because it will hurt too much on external ones. Yours might be external? If childbirth was the only reason for your hemorrhoids, then surgery might be okay. But if there are other underlying issues like IBS or constipation then surgery is not the magic fix.
      It will hurt like crazy afterwards. You’ll need a week off from work because you’ll be on pain killers and you can’t sit or walk properly. Every time you have a bowel movement, it will feel like p**ping glass shards. No kidding. Discuss your options with your doctor.

      1. I had the surgery a few months after having my second baby. I think the recovery was even worse than recovery from giving birth – but I would still do it again. Diet, medication, etc. won’t help at a certain point and that no way to live!

        1. Yep, it was so horrible that the narcotics they prescribed did nothing for me. I survived to tell the tale but I’m not sure if I want to go through it again.

          To OP, dibucane cream like Nupercainal was a huge life saver post-surgery for me if you decide to go the surgery route.

    6. I had some really bad ones removed and wish the doctor had done it earlier. The recovery was uncomfortable but not as uncomfortable as the actual problem.

    7. I posted a follow up today (in which I misspelled hemorrhoids) – in case you look here:

      What my doctor suggested was trying horse chestnut extract. He did suggest to wait until I was done nursing. I’m just starting it now as I only weaned a couple of weeks ago. Hope you feel better soon!

  8. In the market for a reliable digital SLR camera in the $200-300 range. Does such a thing exist? We are not super serious about photography but want to have something decent for some upcoming trips. Portability is a big consideration for us, and we are not looking to swap out lenses or anything complicated like that. We basically want a point-and-shoot camera with maybe a few extra features. Any recommendations?

    TIA!

    1. Not an SLR, but on a recommendation from a poster here, I purchased a used Olympus E-PL1 for my vacation and it is a great little camera for the money. I paid under $200. It has the standard automatic mode but also lots of other manual modes, plus a ton of in-camera filters and effects. It also takes video. With the lens locked, it’s small enough for me to tuck into a non-obtrusive camera bag or hang from my neck for a good period of time.

      You can swap out lenses if at some point in the future you want to, but I was happy with the lens it came with. I will probably get a lens with more zoom in the future, but that adds to the size of course.

      1. I remember recommending it here – I’m so glad you love yours for all the same reasons i do!

    2. You’d have to get something used in that price range but there are plenty of decent used cameras for sale.

    3. I have a Canon Rebel XTI that I purchased at least 7 years ago refurbished. They have used ones on Amazon for under $200. If possible upgrade the lens, as that will make a difference. It’s a great camera though.

    4. Check out “super zoom” or “bridge” cameras. I think that is what you’re looking for. They are not SLRs but are a great alternative for people who want a fancier version of a point-and-shoot. I currently have a Nikon Coolpix, previously had a Sony Cybershot (which I loved but it failed after about 4 years). They are priced somewhat lower than an SLR.

      1. thanks – looking at the coolpix now – any downsides to this camera other than the fact that it obviously will not take professional-grade pictures?

        1. Size – it is not a compact camera. It’s roughly the size of a DSLR. Many models have a smaller image sensor which affects their ability to take good photos in low light. I’ve found that to be true. A one-inch sensor is state of the art and will improve low-light photos. I’ve taken some incredible photos, especially action shots of my kids’ sports, close-ups of birds and things like that, and moon photos

        2. “Professional-grade” pictures are due wayyyyy more to skill of the photographer than the camera. Having a $2,000 camera does not mean you automatically take good photos. You have to actually know what you’re doing.

    5. Another non-SLR option is the Olympus TG5. It’s shockproof, water proof, and has lots of options! I bought one to use on my next vacation. It’s a point and shoot but there are so many adjustments that can be made. It’s an impressive little camera.

    6. Considering that you don’t wish to change lenses, I don’t think an SLR is your best best. I definitely think you would be better off with a super zoom type camera. You can certainly get one that take great photos, and in the price range you are listing, the SLRs are not exactly professional level, even assuming you can find one that cheap.

  9. I will be staying in my first airbnb apartment for one in a week in Spain with a few friends (booked by someone else). Given that I will not be able to carry it with me each day, how do you keep laptops safe in this setting?

    Normally I would have no qualms leaving it in a hotel, but this seems a little foolhardy as in theory the host could enter the apartment while we’re gone during the day. Is there an obvious answer I’m missing, or do I just need to learn to roll with the “sharing economy”?

    1. You need to just roll with it. Password protect it and leave it not out in the open.

      1. Make sure you encrypt the disk instead of just having an account with a password on it.

    2. The host is trusting you not to steal all of his/her possessions. I think it would be really shortsighted of him/her to steal your laptop when you could retaliate so spectacularly.

    3. Your host has zero reason to steal from you. Most hosts rely on their guests as a source of income, and if you wrote a scathing review about how they stole from you, and submitted an official, backed-up complaint (with police report) through the site, the host would probably get kicked off Airbnb and at the very least, get a pretty serious drop in booking requests.

      Also, it’s probably safer than a hotel. In a hotel, every single manager and member of the cleaning and maintenance staff can enter your room. In an Airbnb, pretty much only the host can enter your room, unless they have a cleaning staff themselves (many hire cleaners to come in after each guest). So you go from 20+ people with access to your stuff to maybe 2-5.

      That said, if it’s a work laptop, there may be legal issues with leaving it unattended.

    4. Don’t make it obvious that you have it with you when you meet the host to get they keys, and then leave it locked in your suitcase during the day. Assuming your host has, and wants to continue having, good AirBnB ratings, they probably have not been subjecting their guests to petty theft, so if the laptop is not out in the open, and the suitcase is locked, you should be fine.

    5. Just lock it in your suitcase. I’d be more worried about random burglary of easy-to-grab items left out in the open (to that end, is the building itself decently secure?) than your host taking something!

    6. Staying in an AirBnB where the host has access is hardly different from staying in a hotel where the staff has access, even if you decline daily housekeeping. Like others said, the host is unlikely to take your stuff, but it may give you peace of mind to leave it in your suitcase.

    7. You’re being paranoid. I’m pretty paranoid but it would not occur to me to be concerned about this. I DO have some security concerns about airbnbs vs. hotels. Like, are airbnbs more prone to break ins? Might someone follow me home and force his way in? I personally feel more comfortable in a hotel with 24 hour security or at least a front desk I can call if I hear a strange noise. When I stay in airbnbs, I choose properties that have some added level of security – like an apartment with a gate or at least an extra locked door off the street. I don’t like to stay in places with a direct access right on the street. I usually travel alone though so ymmv.

      1. I think you have a false sense of security when it comes to hotels. I mean, look at what happened to Kim Kardashian. Honestly, I think it would be just as easy, if not easier, for someone to follow you back to your hotel room and force their way in there. I don’t think I’ve ever seen security guards at hotels, and even if so, it’s not like they’re posted on every floor.

    8. Put it in your suitcase and lock it with a travel lock. Sure, the host could take the suitcase, but that would be pretty provable.

    9. I think the other posters have it alright: just be smart about when and where it is, and lock it up inside a suitcase. If you have to bring the laptop at all, that is (you know your situation better than us!), then just be discreet and you’ll be good!

    10. thanks all! Sounds like my inexperience here is causing undue concerns. Appreciate the reality check!

  10. So, guys… I quit my job. With nothing lined up. I’m actually fairly proud of myself!

    I’ve been unhappy with my company for years, but a couple of years ago moved into a new role which I thought would be interesting and which would lead to a promotion. I was doing a software implementation, and thought it might be able to grow into a more formal PMO-type role. It didn’t. My boss told me he was stepping down and my position was somewhere on the scale of uncertain-to-being-eliminated, I was offered a new position in the company that was a step down for me, and so I turned it down. My boss (perhaps the only helpful thing he’s done for me in the 6 years I’ve worked for him) was able to work out a severance for me (22 weeks pay) and September 8 was my last day.

    I have been so, so miserable there for so long. I’m so very excited to be moving on! I have no idea where I’m going or what I’m doing, but I’m giving myself permission to not freak out about that yet.

    I just wanted to share! (I haven’t done much of that IRL)

    3. Yay – that’s awesome. I’ve quit with nothing lined up before, and it’s always worked out just fine. To keep myself from jumping on the first OK but not perfect opportunity, I set a “no compromise date”. Figured out what I wanted in a job, and before a certain date I would not take a job that didn’t check all the boxes. It allowed me to feel productive by looking, but helped me look hard at the opportunities I got and make sure I didn’t just grab one out of general anxiety.

  11. I have a jacket shaped like this in charcoal and I don’t wear it much. I feel like maybe it’s the wrong shape for me. I like this red though. What shape is best in this? I have a big butt and I feel like jackets that hit at the top of it really emphasize it.

    1. I think jackets like this work well over dresses but that not may help if you’re trying to de-emphasize your butt!

    2. These jackets look great on my mom and sister (hourglass with big boobs) and look terrible on me (pear-shaped). Don’t know if others agree, but that is my experience.

      1. Hourglass with big boobs here, and yeah, I like jackets like this with a more fitted dress underneath.

    3. I’m a pearish shape & I like to wear this style in a brighter color with a muted bottom, it makes me feel more proportional from top to bottom.

  12. I’ve seen some sort of weather-monitoring-related gift recommended on here several times for dads/husbands that have everything. I’ve tried searching for it, but I don’t know exactly what words I’m looking for, so I’m coming up short. Any ideas?

    I really need to start saving my favorite posts in a file somewhere…

  13. My favorite workout leggings are starting to wear through. The back waistband pocket is so big I can fit my phone in it! But the company that made them – Gander Mountain – is closing. Anyone have favorite workout leggings with a fairly large waistband pocket?

    2. I have an iPhone 7 (not the Plus) and it fits in the back of all my Athleta leggings. But! They also make several pairs (like the Relay 2.0) that have large thigh pockets that I like even better.

    3. I have a pair from Athleta that has a waistband pocket large enough to fit an iphone 6+

    4. Haven’t ordered yet so I can’t speak to their quality or sizing, but I like the way items from Senita look – and they’ve got big pockets.

  14. Would you wear this shirt to work? I’m thinking specifically for attending conferences. I’m on the fence about how appropriate the cut-outs are on this (I know I know, if you have to ask…). Also wondering how possible/expensive it would be to have a tailor stitch them closed. Link to follow.

    3. Those cutouts are pretty tame, as far as cutouts go, but KYI (know your industry). A friend in education media would be fine. A friend in a local legislative office would not. I would be comfortable wearing this to my industry’s national conference, which is a bit more hip, but not to our state conference, which is pretty stodgy.

    4. love it and would definitely wear it at my business casual office. kinda want to buy one now, so thanks lol

    5. It’s lovely! (I was expecting I would say, “skip it, find something without the cut outs” before I clicked, but…) I think the cut outs could be closed pretty easily, and it doesn’t really look like it would change the shape.

    6. As a lawyer, that blouse is beautiful and completely work/conference appropriate.

    7. I generally hate cutouts and key holes, but I really like this and totally would wear it to my work (law firm). I kind of want to order it, actually.

    8. Thanks all! I’ll definitely pull the trigger. FYI I saw it first in person, and it’s less shiny in person than it looks online. The fabric also has a bit of a texture to it. I think the texture makes it look interesting, but just wanted to point it out since that’s not obvious from the photos.

  15. I’m at a job that I basically hate. I’ve been here two years, and I’m just not a good fit. Also, I’m pretty senior but the work is unrewarding, in large part because the director I report to is ok at delegating tasks but never delegating responsibility.

    I’m holding off on finding another job, though, because I’m also going to school part time and I don’t think I’ll be able to manage the course load while starting another (hopefully more challenging!) job. So I’m staying put until I graduate in the spring.

    I could use advice on staying engaged/motivated even though I know I’m leaving – I want to do a good job while I’m here, but am having a hard time getting anything done. In particular, I’d love to hear about specific things that people have done when in similar situations. Thanks :-)

    [also, apologies for asking about this again – I *know* I’ve seen conversations along these exact lines before, but am having a terrible time actually finding them]

    1. Look at job postings for the sort of jobs you want after graduating, and create a list of achievements you would want to include on your resume. Create (or tweak) your work tasks so you can demonstrate those achievements.

    2. Track what you are actually getting done/accomplishing each day. I find long to-do lists overwhelming, but documenting what I actually get done keeps me moving. I think it focuses me on accomplishing something instead of the list.

      1. +1. I’ve posted something along these lines before – e.g., at a biglaw firm, know I’m not going to make partner, and currently in the process of figuring out my next step. Look at threads around 7/7 and 7/8 of this year (although staying motivated in my current job wasn’t the main focus of my questions). Looking at job postings, looking at other potential fields, going on informational interviews is part of it. As for my current job, keeping track of what I have done, Bullet-journal style, helps me stay on track and focused. Bigger picture, I want the partners here to think well of me when I do leave.

        1. Thanks, ladies! Definitely going to start keeping a “done” list – I had somehow forgotten about doing that, but actually did exactly that when I was having a particularly rough time at a previous job and it helped a ton.

  16. Anyone ever taken an early retirement package, or considered one? A friend is considering taking one and wondering what all to keep in mind. Are there any things she should ask for or negotiate?

    2. Understand whether the benefit can be taken as a lump sum or not and how that impacts her/his plans. and +100 to Health Insurance

  17. Comfortable heel help please! I wear a 9.5 wide and have flat feet, so I love arch support.

    I generally wear wedges but would like to branch out into heels, particularly as block heels seem trendy and more comfy. Any suggestions? I have traumatic flashbacks to wearing pointy toed stilettos in college, which would leave the ball of my foot numb and burning for days.

    1. The Franco Sarto Optimum pump was recommended here and they are some of the only heels I can wear (I also have flat feet)

    2. I’m debating getting these: http://www.rockport.com/rockport/total-motion-kalila-pump/tmkalilapump.html?dwvar_tmkalilapump_width=W&dwvar_tmkalilapump_color=tmkalilapump_blackkidsuede&dwvar_tmkalilapump_shoeSize=8.5&cgid=womens-footwear-styles-heels. I love their flats, so it stands to reason their low heels should be comfortable too, right?

      They also have these if you’re looking to go a little higher: http://www.rockport.com/rockport/total-motion-pointed-toe-pump/tm75mmpthplainpump.html?dwvar_tm75mmpthplainpump_color=tm75mmpthplainpump_blacklea&cgid=womens-footwear-styles-heels

      1. I have the round toe version of this, and I love them. Very comfortable, good quality. I have high arches and I wanted the arch support for the same reason. The ball of my foot is very wide, so I had to go with the round toe to avoid pinching.

    3. Joseph Seibel Tina 17. I usually wear wide shoes (because I need a wide toebox) but these still fit me.

  18. Do you think you can genuinely be good friends with someone about whom you fantasize on occasion and is really hot? Definitely would not pursue anything besides the friendship, but wondering about people’s thoughts on this.

    1. Yes, you can be friends with an attractive person whom you don’t have any real romantic interest in. And I often find that as I get to know someone, I find that person less attractive.

    2. Counterpoint: a friend of mine seems to be in this situation with a gay male colleague (she is straight, and in a long-term relationship). He IS super hot. She acts like a teenager with a crush most of the time when she talks about him and most of her conversations about him seem to revolve around her feeling slighted or rejected by him in some way. I haven’t met him, so it’s possible he’s just a jerk, but to some degree I think she is expecting him to act like a boyfriend when he has no interest in her that way. I think you have to be honest with yourself about whether you have any romantic interest, regardless of whether the other person is available to you.

    3. I would have a potential romantic interest in him if my circumstances were different. And when I see him but we’re not directly interacting I think about how hot he is. When we hang out and talk I don’t think about these things. I just enjoy the conversation or activity the way I do with other friends.

      1. This sounds a little healthier than my friend’s situation up above. You sound self-aware. If you’re in a long-term relationship and you want to protect that, I would be careful about developing too much emotional intimacy with your friend. Otherwise… what’s the problem, again? :)

      2. I have friends I think are hot, and it’s fine. I have a friend I think is hot and I wish I could date. Nothing has ever happened but it isn’t emotionally healthy for me.

      3. I am going to run counter to the tons of responses you will get here about “emotional affairs” and not discussing intimate things.

        I think you can have amazing friendships with people of your preferred choice sexually, even when either or both of you is married or coupled up. I think you can talk about everything the way that you would with your other friends, including sharing details about your relationships and other intimate details. The way friends do. I also think that you can have fun, joke around, tease each other and (gasp) be a bit flirty. All without jeopardizing or being “disrespectful” (ugh, that phrase really rubs me the wrong way) to your own romantic relationships. You can have off the charts chemistry and fantasize about this other person all you like. It is calorie free and costs zero dollars.

        There is literally one thing you MUST NOT do. Do not have s*x with them.

        I know loads of people here disagree with me and we have discussed “emotional affairs” multiple times. I use quotes because I do not believe that it is even a thing. An affair is s*x with a married person, not telling them that you like to be spanked.

        So, OP, I say go ahead and enjoy your friendship.

    4. Are you in a relationship? If so, I think this is a recipe for disaster.
      (Note: not saying married men and women can’t have friends of both sexes, and my husband has a lot of female friends, but I think having a friend you’re really attracted to and regularly fantasize about is asking for trouble).

    5. If I were you, I’d check my motives early and often. I assume this is on your mind because you and/or they are in committed relationships, meaning you can’t date? I think if you’re serious about your own relationship, you should make sure you don’t seek any contact with them that you wouldn’t seek with someone who wasn’t hot. So this potential friendship should look exactly like your friendships with other people who you aren’t attracted to. Not that anything would necessarily happen, but out of respect for your partner and yourself.

      1. Because every man finds every woman “really hot” and fantasizes about them? Gonna have to call BS on that stereotype.

        1. Every male friend I’ve ever had has admitted to this. And I’m not friends with chauvinistic brutes. These are ordinary, nice guys.

  19. Skin rant: I’m early 40s and literally the past month or so, my skin has gone from middle of the road, not oily, not dry, to SO oily. I use a light moisturizer and a light foundation. I wash with a gentle cleanser in the morning and then use a make up remover cloth at night. No change in diet, which is relatively healthy. WTH is going on here and do I just jump to harsher cleansers??

    1. I’d be concerned that harsher cleansers would strip your face and cause it to overreact/make it worse. Have you tried oil cleansing? It might sound crazy to put more on your face but I find that it really works well on my oily skin – oil dissolves oil and all that.

      1. Yea, I don’t think *anyone* should use harsh cleansers. I have fairly oily skin, I used to use oil cleansing, and it didn’t make my face any oiler than it would have been otherwise. Might as well give it a try?

        (p.s.- people with oilier skin age better, so also take advantage of the silver lining here?)

    2. This can be a symptom of low thyroid, so ask yourself if you have any other symptoms that might warrant a doctor’s visit!

    3. My skin did this – it turns out it was actually getting very dry, so I had oil over-production to make up for it. I switched to oil cleansing and had a radical improvement. I highly recommend the Crunch Betty primer on oil cleansing.

      I do have to switch my oil mix up by season – I need more hydrating in the fall/winter.

  20. I have just realized that my children will be in college when my husband becomes medicare-eligible (and will probably retire then).

    I have one more year at mid-law before I get pushed out (fine by me, I’m dying anyway).

    I used to throw all my $ at day care and law school loans, so I don’t have a lot of $ saved up. I now think I’m like an NFL player — the big $ years are on a timer and I’m trying to get a handle on the next 15 years of expenses while I have probably the most income I’ll ever have.

    Do we ballpark thinking that if we can pay off our house by the time the oldest is finishing high school that we can at least keep a paid off house as something we wouldn’t be expected to touch if we are both retired when the kids (stair steps — kids are one grade apart so will overlap for 3 years — OUCH) are in college? Do colleges look at 401Ks as assets you could/should raid for tuition? Or do they not touch that b/c kids can borrow for college but you can’t borrow for retirement?

    We have a modest house and 401Ks that we have a serious risk of outliving and no pensions, etc.

    I’m not sure financial planners deal with outliers like us — older parents. I’m not sure who does.

    1. Generally, your primary home equity and traditional retirement accounts like 401ks are not part of the college savings equation. They consider the # of kids currently in college, so when you have two in college at the same time, you’ll get more aid. I doubt you’d be expected to contribute very much if you income is low by then and you have no assets except your house and retirement accounts.
      College aside, neither of you should retire if you don’t have enough money in retirement funds and are physically able to keep working. And I’d continue paying the minimum on the house and putting the extra money in retirement rather than trying to pay off the house ASAP.
      Financial planners deal with everyone, I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to help someone in your situation.

    2. Any planner can handle this, and seeking advice from a professional is a wise idea. The answer is simply that your husband can’t afford to retire at 65. 65 is still able-bodied and able-minded – if you’re at real risk of outliving your retirement resources, you can’t afford to squander those funds by living off them when you’re “young” vs when you’re genuinely old and feeble and unable to work.

      1. The thing is, many people can’t keep a job past 65. Age discrimination is real.

        1. Yep. I always disagree with the advice of — work past 65 or just get another job. It gets much much harder to get another job after age 55 and certainly after 60. Maybe it’s just my parents’ cohort, but I know TONS of people who paid off the mortgage at 65, planned to work 1-2 more yrs just to beef up savings with no mortgage, and got laid off right then — never to land another job again. They were lucky to be 65 already — but we’ve seen it with other friends (all in engineering fields) who were “forced” into retirement at 58 or 61 or whatever — some got some contract work, unsteady employment after that but never a full salaried engineer gig with benefits. So what I’ve always taken from this — make and save as much as you can when you’re young, don’t presume you can do it later.

          1. Yup. None of my parents friends wanted to retire before 67. But they were all forced out long before then.

          2. Assuming OP’s husband *makes a choice* to retire, that *choice* would be the wrong one. He needs to keep working at as high a salary as he can for as long as he can. If he gets forced out, then he needs to be a clerk at the grocery store or literally anything, because their only other option is to be destitute at age 85.

            I work in the retirement industry. My entire life’s work consists of preventing elder poverty. “Keep working” IS valid and important advice.

          3. It’s absolutely valid and important advice, that was presented without any acknowledgment whatsoever that it may not be possible. Being a clerk at the grocery store won’t pay for college.

          4. If they’re at risk of outliving their retirement, they are full-stop not paying for college. End of story. Junior can go to state school, take out loans himself, and be fine. There are loans for college; there are no loans for retirement.

            Or they can be in line at the food pantry. They can choose between medicine and electricity. One of them can be on their deathbed worried about how the other will literally survive after their death when Social Security is reduced. Ask me how I know those stories. The wealth on this board and the assumptions here are astounding sometimes. Poverty is the real outcome of outliving your savings, which OP said was a possibility.

          5. I feel like it’s become such that it’s only possible to work as long as you want in medicine (esp if you’re not a surgeon) OR if you own your own business. I know a number of doctors past age 65 all of whom say they’ll work for a few more yrs — some private practice, some big academic health system specialists etc. so they just aren’t be pushed out the same way. But I feel like in other industries, being pushed out at 65 or even 58 has become standard now — in my law firm, the partnership agreement states that you are done at 65 and they don’t make concessions; they have had partners with big books who wanted to stay past 65 and were told no — so those partners took their clients and went to another firm/went out on their own.

          6. My engineer parent got sacked at 61 and never went back. It seems to be pretty standard. He and my mother lived very frugally. She is younger and was the sole earner for 6 more years, so they never got to travel around when they were both younger and in good health the way they had planned to.

          7. A lot of places won’t even give you severance unless you sign a release that includes not suing under ADEA.

      2. This is a really oversimplified answer and does not take into account the OP’s husband’s health or whether he CAN continue to work past age 65 in his industry (that ability is becoming increasingly rare, especially in some fields). It may be that they need to forego paying for their kids’ college, or at least not pay a substantial portion. Which, you know, that happens. From reading here a person might think everyone is going to be able to shell out full freight for their kids for all four years, but that is definitely not the case for everyone. We’re aiming to be able to pay for about half of our kids’ college educations and it may not even be that much. You do what you can do.

        OP, definitely call a financial planner and have some conversations. You’re not the only person who had kids later in life (by far) and there are ways to plan for everyone’s future within the boundaries of the possible.

    3. Financial planners absolutely deal with people like you. You are their bread and butter.

      Step One- figure out how much you need to retire and what it will take to get there.

      Step Two- figure out if there is anything left over for college.

      If you don’t have enough in retirement savings, you can’t pay for college. And you and your children (when age appropriate) need to deal with that.

      1. +1 You don’t have to pay for college. Loans exist. In-state schools with significantly reduced tuition exist. There are alternatives that you can/should be considering.

        1. +1. I would emphasize to the kids (as age appropriate) how important it is to do well in school and admissions tests to get scholarships, particularly at great state schools, so that they can get a great education (somewhere they like) without going into massive debt so they can also have career flexibility. I taught several students in similar situations, who ended up at top state schools with full-rides (some even with stipends), received great educations, and were able to get into their dream schools for graduate programs. A lot of these tests can be learned and a student can jump a sizable amount by taking a tutoring class. The students that focused really well and worked hard were either from immigrant families or from families that would likely not get need-based aid, but the students knew (because mom and dad explained) that “dream” school would only be a possibility with scholly $$$.

          That’s how I got through school (though diff. situation b/c parents were poor immigrants, so there was no other option). There is money out there for great students, which can be supplemented with loans and work study, but like someone said, not for retirement.

    4. Why wouldn’t financial planners deal with older parents? They deal with all life situations and having a kidin your 40s so that you’ll be in your 60s when they go to college isn’t exactly unheard of.

      Offhand — I think you need to focus on beefing up your 401ks and paying off the mortgage — esp if you’re behind on the 401ks. The bigger goal is not to end up reliant on your kids later in life — that is more plausible if you have a paid off home to live in and a decent 401k; your kids can borrow for college. I would NOT do everything I could to pay every last dime of college at the expense of your own retirement or mortgage — even if you think the kids will be grateful and they are agreeing at age 17 to support you in your later yrs if you need it, you can’t rely on those “promises” by a 17 yr old. (I’m from a culture where historically kids took care of parents financially — lol — that’s long gone in 2017; often sons do make these grand promises of taking care and thus the parents shell out every last time to get them thru med school — thinking when they’re old, the son will buy a big house and the whole fam will live together and the son will want that bc he’ll be soooo grateful to his parents. Enter the post-residency school yrs where son wants to live just like any other American guy and having his parents in his home isn’t conducive to that and then enter wife who isn’t up for that – regardless of whether she’s the same culture or not.)

    6. Longer post – stuck in mod so look for that this afternoon.

      You say you’ll be pushed out of midlaw and you hate it anyway. What are your plans after next yr – will you be taking a pay cut? Any chance you can snag another midlaw job at another firm for a yr or 2? Even if you don’t make partner, I feel like biglaw (and I assume midlaw to a lesser extent) allows one to save a lot in 1 yr compared to “regular” (non firm) jobs, esp. if you focus on savings.

    7. Couple of things from a kid who was on the other side of this equation. 1) Colleges aren’t going to require you to drain your retirement funds or sell your house (within reason) so I wouldn’t worry about this. 2) Its great to say “My kids are on their own” but the whole financial aid system is predicated around parents backstopping their kids. If you have a healthy income and (other than retirement – which schools recognize is important) you spend a lot of money on other things your kids will be penalized. Parental income not only determines grant aid but also determines eligibility for the various types of federally subsidized loans. My private loans were at Libor + 900. You don’t want to put your kids in this position if you can help it. 3) Your husband voluntarily not working will really not be a good look to the financial aid people. I had a parent do this and my guidance counselor was horrified and we spent a lot of time working around this (aka coming up with a valid reason for why my mother hadn’t had a full time job in 25 years). If he gets laid off / pushed out / can’t find a job that’s a very different story. Good colleges try to limit debt / are very generous, however having parents who just won’t make smart choices they can’t and are unwilling to fix which is when people like me / my unluckier friends end up in the private loan market.

      Having gone through the FAFSA process, it will help you from an aid standpoint to have two kids in college at the same time – at competitive / top schools both children will likely receive more grant aid.

      1. I think that college is also based on having a parent (or two) in their peak earning years, or with enough of their working life left so that they can make up the cost of college by continuing to work.

        If you have saved, say $1M to retire on (let’s assume that you rent), I would bet that a college want you to tap that to pay them. And the thing is, if I had $1M, I’d feel rich enough to spend some of that. But if you are retired and in your 60s, you probably can’t afford to spend 100K on State U (which is what the all-in cost winds up being with room + board + books) per kid.

        That said, I have no idea who pays for college (State U or private) b/c it is all so expensive and there aren’t that many rich people compared to rest of us.

        1. Oh yeah. The problem for me was having a parent in their peak earnings years who had never worked more than part time in 25 years…. colleges don’t look too kindly on that when you are asking for financial aid.

          If I’m remembering correctly, colleges took my parents retirement savings and home as sacrosanct. The problem I had was that they had spent quite a bit of money on consumer goods / cars / 2nd mortgage / HELOC which their EFC didn’t reflect (because those are choices in a way a dwelling / retirement savings aren’t).

          For what its worth it ended up being cheaper (I think around ~100k all in) for me to go to an Ivy than my flagship state U was. I got a good deal (25%) of grant aid, 25% of federal subsidized / unsubsidized loans, and my EFC was 50% of the cost. The problem was since my parents were unwilling to finance their EFC, the additional 25% of debt I took on was through the private market.

        2. It was also problematic that my parents never gave me any financial details and I didn’t find out how very behind / in the hole they were until I was looking at acceptance letters / aid packages.

    8. Thanks for the replies all!

      DH got laid off a while ago and it took temping 1.5 years to get another FT job (and that job is so stressful that it is probably costing him his health right now). I doubt he’ll make it working past 65.

      For me, I’ve been trying for one more year with various arrangements that don’t quite fix the 24/7 nature of the job for about 4 years, during which I can sense that my children and home life are increasingly miserable. I make better $, but feel that I lose it to summer camps, child care, overtime childcare, AMT (marriage penalty is real!), etc. Law school now just seems like such a bad move — it’s hard to contain the beast and all I want now is a job with a hard stop. SO if I get a job as an admin law judge, I will pounce. It may not happen for a couple of years, but friends who have done it insist that if you want long enough it will. [I won’t be eligible for any sort of pension, but benefit costs should go down.]

      All in all, I think my kids are now only looking at State U vs hoping that any retired-parent-income-level will get them to be eligible for aid at any private universities.

      The scary thing is in our MCOL city, we might have what looks like a healthy amount of savings when we retire, but actuarialy be several 000s shy of what we need to not outlive our $. And the thought that we’d be expected to raid that for college (which I think that private colleges would expect but State U wouldn’t (both b/c it’s less expensive and b/c their aid seems to look largely at income vs assets)) makes me both ill and trying to figure what Old Lady Side Hustle I could do for extra $ (bingo caller???).

      But in my law firm job, I am beginning to think that at some point I will lose the stamina to work these hours and I will not be sharp any more (or not sharp in 4 hours of sleep) and I may legit get sick in ways that I can’t tough it out. I would consider being a secretary or paralegal or teacher (school or community college or adjunct) as a retiree also, but probably paralegal is the way to go.

      1. I understand if you don’t want to share but how far behind are you really? Where are you at in terms of HHI vs. 401k vs. what’s left on the mortgage vs. what you’ve saved for college?

      2. Private universities give far more in merits based scholarships than state universities do. That’s how I got most of my college tuition paid for, and the rest was loans because my parents could not help me. For reference, my brother’s loan load for attending a decent in-state state school in California was twice as large as mine, and I attended a pretty expensive private university. Don’t rule out private universities (if there’s one that’s a better fit for your kids than state schools) before having our kids apply for every possible scholarship–it can work. Obviously there are amazing state schools, too, and some have pretty good scholarship endowments, so no matter what, your kids should be applying for everything they can. And also expecting to work on campus during school to help out (as many of us here probably did–I had three on campus jobs and waited tables to make it all work).

      3. So, here’s some advice straight from our financial advisor.

        Calculators that say you need $3 mill to retire are based on an idea that you will live off the interest income from your investments and leave the bulk of the principal to your heirs. This cannot/will not/does not work for everyone. This is where an advisor could really help – especially one not connected to a financial-services firm. What is your real retirement number, vs the inflated number most online calculators give you? A lot of calculators also build in assumptions about lifestyle that aren’t realistic, if you talk to many retired people. Please, go talk to an advisor. I felt so much better about where we’re at after I talked to one.

    9. 1. See a financial planner. You are not an outlier, but even if you were, they have seen thousands of people with different financial scenarios walk through their office and have the benefit of experience that you (and probably the people reading this board) do not have. There’s a solution, and a financial planner will more likely be the one to find it.

      2. Your children would rather fund their own college than fund your retirement. Draw a bright line around retirement savings and make other decisions based on that.

    10. It’s funny: this came to a head when DH and I were thinking of some home improvement projects that would total about 200K (hello, cosmetic fixer bought as family house). It isn’t that much over 30 years. But at my age, a lot of that would be retirement years. I just about fell over — if I can’t necessarily absorb that for State U x two children, I certainly can’t spend it on spiffing up a home to make it better. I need to be able to retire and if I have extra, I favor education over house.

    11. Honestly, start downsizing your life and expenses now. Can you either sell your home and move into something smaller/cheaper now, or if not now, as soon as the kids start college? You mentioned your home needing 200k in repairs, so I’m going with the assumption that it’s a pretty nice home.

      Have open, honest communication with your kids about where you’re at and why you’re making the choices that you are, that it’s to save for retirement and college, so they’re not in a financially tight place when they’re your age, too.

      1. I wish it were an expensive home. Instead, it is a POS in a good school district in a MCOL city. A key part of the house was added in the early 1980s and having some issue due to settling (so tear off addition or redo it; neither is inexpensive but neither needs to be done today but would need to be done if we ever wanted to sell it as anything but a teardown).

        Income is X (and is likely peaking now). House costs us 2X (IMO a good deal even in its shape b/c school district is v good and commute for me is v short) (now paid down to 1.5X). Retirement savings are also at 2X (sounds great, but husband is 50+ already). State U tuition is 1/4 X per year (so for two kids, would equal our whole retirement savings OR our house).

        1. I’d encourage you to be brutally honest with your kids. There are schools that give more and less financial aid (IE see Ivy league free tuition now for anyone from a HHI of <$125k and above that its a sliding scale) and schools that will give big scholarships (ie Vandy) to people that meet certain hurdles like National Merit Semifinalist etc. This will help them frame the discussion and be savvier. State U may be cheaper, but depending on where you are located / how many local employers hire from State U will inform the calculus of whether more debt for a private school is worth it.

        3. Keep the house through college (b/c it is a sheltered asset from the college perspective). Plan on moving to a cheaper house in a worse school district after last kid is through college, and taking some savings out at that point to beef up retirement. Make renovation decisions with this plan in mind (ie, be brutally honest with yourself about what will get you your money back with yourself, and what won’t). Do not plan to pay for college, you can’t afford it. That is 100% fine, but it’s important to be honest with yourself and your kids about it. It is better for them to pay for their own college and not have to try to keep their aging parents from becoming homeless in 20 years.

  21. ladies familiar with Paris–

    We need to find a hotel for the (one) last night of our trip to France. We’ll be traveling back from Marseille, staying in Paris one night, and flying out the next early afternoon (from CDG). Husband wants to stay near the airport, I kind of think that’s boring and would rather stay in Paris to take advantage of our last night. Thoughts?

  22. I just got the 90 days to GTFO talk from my biglaw firm. I am a second year. My firm said it was fit. I seemed to fit just fine in the 500 hours I worked on a deal in the past five weeks, and got glowing accolades from the clients and the partner. Whatever. I think mostly they didn’t like that I pointed out the partners in my satellite office screaming expletives and throwing things made for a difficult work environment. They didn’t like that. I know I’m a good associate–I work all the time with people in other offices and they tell me I’m the best [my year] associate they’ve ever worked with. The people in my office are just nuts. I think they sensed I thought they were nuts. I also have prior law firm experience, so I can tell you that I don’t fit, because these people are crazy unprofessional.

    Anyway, I don’t have to come to work after this week, but I get to be on the website for at least 90 days. I asked to be kept on until February, because it’s a weird time of year to look for a job. My vacation gets paid out after my leave. So, financially I should be OK.

    Other than networking my tail off, what should I do? Also, I work in a very tiny office with really antisocial associates, so I doubt this will “get around” in my city. And I want to change geographies anyway.

    Suggestions and hugs please. I realize this is a win-win outcome. But it’s still a rough day.

    1. Call a recruiter today. 90 days sounds like a long time but it won’t be. Start working on your resume now.

    2. You’re only a 2nd yr. You’re marketable (unlike say a 9th yr). Call a recruiter. Where do you want to work? If you want to go to a BIG city (like NYC or Chicago), you’ll be just fine — someone will be looking for a lateral junior. Maybe this is just me (and others should chime in to disagree) but I wouldn’t be too honest with the recruiter right now. You’re still employed/on the website for 90 days — tell the recruiter you want to move to x market for life reasons . . . if they really push, tell them there’s a fit issue at your firm with screamer partners (but don’t tell them that they’ve asked you to go) so you want out preferable in x market, but if you can’t find anything in x market and there’s interviews to be had in your local market, that’s ok too. Obviously if that 90 days were to run with no offer – then you’d have to be honest with recruiters.

      Also not as bad a time to look for jobs as you’d think — I think some firms do interview in the fall in anticipation of Jan hiring and in anticipation of the fact that there’s a certain amount of turnover after bonuses are paid in Dec/jan.

    3. You want to change geographies to where? That will make a big difference in the advice you get.

      Polish your resume. Practice explaining why you are looking for a new position (they fired me because they are cray cray may be true but you can’t use that in an interview)

    4. Ok, so you totally get some time to be mad and angry, and that is absolutely fine. But, gently, going forward I’d work on being a little less defensive. Generally, when I see somebody saying that everybody else around them is crazy, I tend to think that person is the one with the problem. (If you smell $ hit everywhere you go . . . )

      1. I disagree with your third sentence. Biglaw partners can be absolute psychos, and they usually congregate in groups because the defend each other’s terrible behavior. If this was a problem that OP had at every firm, maybe.

        BUT I will say that, as unfair as it may be, it is the kiss of death to tell exec committee that you don’t like working with the partners, think they’re unpleasant, think they’re unreasonable, crazy. I’m not surprised at all they let you go. Sucks, but that just is what it is. There are places where you are expected to bend over.

        Call a recruiter. The market seems pretty good right now for juniors. You’re still young enough to be fungible, cheap, and not expected to have business or on the cusp of making partner.

    5. Hugs. You are lucky to be out of a bad environment, especially since you are so junior.

      For networking, make a list of firms/ orgs you would like to work in and find someone who would have lunch with you. Make sure to line up a whole bunch of lunches/ coffees. When you talk to people, let them know you are looking for a new job, but don’t mention the 90 days.

      1. If you want to be in Palo Alto, CA, my biglaw firm is hiring corporate associates.

    6. Ugh, I’m so sorry. Definitely call a recruiter. For what it’s worth, according to the recruiters I have talked to (East Coast), September-October and February-March are the best times to be looking.

      Also, if you want to change locations, figure out what you need to practice in the new location (e.g., do you need to take another bar and is it too late to register for the February exam?)

    7. It is a weird time to look for a job, last year I heard in November they weren’t extending my contract into 2017 and I had just under 2 months to find a job. You might be get lucky if you find a company looking for someone in October or early November, heck I even had a promising interview of December of last year, but worst case senario, hiring really does pick up in the new year (not right away, but like a week after New Years) and I flew through the interview process of my current job in January.

      Biggest thing I recommend is connecting with recruiters on LinkedIn, at least recruiters at companies you want to work for, and reputable search firms. Don’t message all of them asking “do you have any jobs for me?” but establish those connections so they think of you when there is an opening – if they have one now, they’ll probably message you. Best thing about being let go in this manner is you can publicly say you’re looking for a new job on your profile.

      You can do this! It’s stressful, and always sucks to go into the holidays with a job search hanging over your head, but you’ll land on your feet!

      1. I think law is very different. I would not connect with recruiters on LinkedIn, especially recruiters at law firms

    8. Reach out to all of those partners in other offices who said you’re a superstar. Ask them for advice. They might not be able to move you to their office because firm politics but they might be willing to help you land somewhere great in a better market.

  23. Hey all. I just caught up on the student loans discussion from over the weekend. I was featured as part of Death Sex and Money’s student loan episodes in June (“Beth” – the lawyer who doesn’t make six figures but still throws $3000+ per month at her loans.) I just wanted to give a shout out to all of you who are struggling. (Many of you high-earners are not struggling, or shouldn’t be, but I know there are a lot of women here with more normal incomes). After I get paid this week, I’m making my first ever $4000 payment, which will bring my balance to about $14,000. I’ll be done in January. Then I’ll have a life, and put $2000+ per month into retirement, and I’ll still retire early barring any catastrophes. I’ll be fine, even though so-called financial experts think I’m an idiot for actually paying off my loans. Do what is right for you. Don’t accept traditional financial advice, and if you do accept it, think outside the box anyway and make intentional choices with your money. I grew up poor and no one taught me anything about money. I’ll probably still be a lawyer for a while, but my long term goal is to bring financial education into the school system.

        1. Not for myself really (7 years post law school and I’m one month away!) but so curious how you managed to come up with 3k a month? I’m totally prying but if you’re comfortable talking about it what were you paying in rent? Were you saving for retirement at the same time?

          Love hearing stories about how people did things differently because they get my own creative thoughts flowing.

          2. I’m totally open about money so here are the rough numbers. The loan payments have increased over time from about $2000 per month in 2014 when I got super intense about it to over $3000 over the past year. My 3 private loans were at about 4.5% variable rate and my consolidated federal loan is at 3.375%. I’ve done the calculations and will save about $80,000 in interest doing in my way. I started with $155,000 in undergrad and federal loans.

            Gross monthly income: $8000 ($2000 goes immediately to tax account for quarterly payments as I am self-employed. I always owe a couple grand in taxes on top of this bc the government hates small business.) This income has increased over the past few years – in 2014 I was averaging $5000-6000 per month gross income.

            Rent: $1350 (this was accurate for a many years until this January when I finally became coupled and moved in with the BF to a house he bought. We still split housing proportionately, so now I’m only paying him $600 per month.)

            Groceries: $250-300 per month (I’m a walking ad for how veganism does not have to be expensive.)

            Non-grocery personal care/toiletries/paper goods: $100

            Dog/cat food: $50 per month.

            Utilities: when I was single and living alone this averaged about $150 per month

            Roth IRA: $100 per month

            Health Ins: $240

            My other expenses are all business related (LexisAdvance, traveling to court, parking, home office deduction, etc) – average about $400 per month.

            Things have gone up and down, but I basically do. not. spend. money. on. anything. I replace personal items (clothing/shoes) when necessary, but this whole process has made me a minimalist and a value-ist. I have a paid off 2008 car but I work at home and rarely drive so it doesn’t need much maintenance. Most people would be scared to death to be 36 and only have $5600 in a Roth IRA (I only started that in 2014 as well). But I’ve trained myself when it comes to frugality, so the thought of having thousands more in spending money while still putting away a ton for retirement works for me. I’ve gone back and forth on it, but at this point I’m most likely not having a child. (Oh how I wish I could get a tax deduction for my animals though!)

            In all honesty I did very well budgeting as single person (zero-based budgeting all the way), but there is no denying that sharing living expenses with someone for the past year has supercharged my debt payoff. My BF is a little tired of my extreme budgeting, but he’s also very proud of me, and we are on the same page about money going forward.

            Early congrats to you for being done in one month!

          3. Ugh my long reply got eaten! I’ll try to re-create. I’m very open with my numbers and finances in general:

            I started with $155,000 in loans, with $52,000 private at about 4.2% variable and the rest federal at 3.375% fixed. From 2006-2016 my rent was between $1100 and $1500 depending on where I lived, but I finally became coupled and moved in with my BF this past January, which cut my housing to $600/month. The difference went straight to loans.

            My gross income (I’m self-employed) has risen from about $5500-$8000 per month over the last four years. The loan payments rose accordingly – even when I became super intense in 2014 I wasn’t able to pay more than about $2000 toward the loans.

            Groceries = $250-300 per month (veganism doesn’t have to be expensive).
            Dog/cat food = $50 per month
            Non-food supplies/toiletries = $100 per month

            Everything else (including $240 health insurance premium) is tax deductible as part of my business. Last year I paid $24,000 in taxes, which I hate and am looking forward to a SEP IRA lowering my tax burden. I have thrown $100 into a Roth IRA for about 4 years but that’s it.

            Most people would consider a 36 year old with $5600 in retirement savings to be in terrible shape. But I’m not having kids, and very soon I’ll be debt free and able to put thousands per month into investments and still have more of a life than I’ve had for the past few years. I try not to compare myself to others, but it’s hard, especially among this community. I listen to a ton of financial podcasts, and people are all over the place, but the main thing I have noticed is that for the early retiree crowd, which I hope to be part of in 15 years, student loan debt is as big an emergency as any other kind of debt. They don’t try to play with interest rates – they just kill it ASAP. I know a ton of people are banking (literally) on IBR and loan forgiveness after 20 years, but the loan will balloon if the interest isn’t covered, and I don’t trust the government to keep its word AT ALL.

            Early congrats to Anon at 12:19 for being almost done!

          4. Also: this is important and I meant to include it above: my aunt has given my a total of $20,000 in $5,000 chunks over the last few years as a way of helping me with this journey. I’ve still done the majority of the payment myself, but I know it is VERY important to be transparent about family help. No one has helped me with anything else though. I talked about this on the podcast with Anna Sale, but for whatever reason that did not make it into the episode.

          5. Thanks so much for sharing! I’m Anon at 12:19- I took a different approach, paid 1-1.5k a month, 2200 in rent, and am up to about 90k in my 401k. But it worked and I’m so close! Love hearing how other people did it especially now that I’m trying to figure out what I’ll do with all this “extra” money (first, I’m replacing my 35 year old couch. And then saving? Investing? So many options.)

    2. Glad you did what you wanted to do, but honestly I don’t get it. You’re this panicked about paying debt that is at 4.2% and 3.375% and yet you talk about early retirement with $5600 in retirement and I assume no outside investments? Any idea how the market has done over the last 5-7 yrs? Hint – there was a yr where the S&P was up over 20%. Had you taken your millions in extra payments and put them in the market, you would be way way way ahead in terms of net worth even if you had used some of them to pay down debt faster than necessary. Instead you’re at $5600 in retirement at age 36 – sure you can start throwing money at that in January but you act like time value of money doesn’t matter and like you can control the market – do you anticipate the same bull market going forward as you’ve missed out on – bc this bull market is getting long in the tooth.

      1. Yeah, I applaud your determination but I can’t help but agree with this.

      2. I get it. But when you grow up in debt, your parents file for bankruptcy and get divorced because of money, and you NEVER have anyone in your life explain the stock market to you, and you NEVER have an employer with a retirement program, you make different choices. I was also unemployed for 15 months during 2011 and 2012, when I became so depressed about the debt I thought about suicide. So thanks for your response – I opened myself up for it, but not everyone has has your knowledge for years on end.

        1. Yup. Sure, you may not have been perfect but you accomplished a massive goal and set yourself up for great habits.

        2. I grew up in similar circumstances and have gone through periods where I couldn’t make my minimum loan payment (for a couple years after undergrad). You bet your @$$ I am doing the same thing as you- paying those loans off as soon as humanly possible. I know my biglaw gig won’t last forever– my goal is not not have to worry about loans when these high salary days are behind me. I’ve paid off over $100k in 1.5 years.

          1. Yes. The mental/emotional component of growing up in a family in debt, with zero financial education, cannot be overstated. Most of those who wag their fingers at me are coming from a place of privilege I never had.

            Of course I don’t know what the market will do. No one does. But paying off the debt is a guaranteed return. If the market crashes tomorrow and some people here lose a large portion of their net worth but still have to make a $1200 loan payment every month for the next 20 years, that won’t be a fun position either.

      3. I don’t think it’s crazy to pay down debt at the expense of funding retirement (I did something similar) but I also think it’s really naive to think you can retire at 50 when you’ve got essentially nothing saved at 36. You say you’re going to be saving $2,000/month, or $24,000 a year. That’s a nice annual savings rate, but 15 years of it still isn’t half a million, even with market growth. Keep in mind, most Americans work and save for retirement for more like 40 years, not 15. Half a million will go so fast when you retire at 50 and could easily live another 30 or 40 years. I wouldn’t be comfortable retiring at 50 with less than $2M, a fully paid off house and no major expenses on the horizon (no health problems, no dependents potentially needing assistance etc.) I won’t have $2M at 50, so I’ll keeping working, like 99% of the country.

        1. I’m still working on the numbers. It will probably be close to $30,000 invested per year after one year of padding emergency savings and upgrading a few minor things. I’d like to hit 1 million net worth. Maybe it will take me 20 years. If I marry my BF, the house we live in will be paid off in about ten years. I have no health problems or dependents. Yes, I know life can throw curve balls. But I live a very simple life and don’t need the money most people on this board need. If anyone is interested, check out the ChooseFI podcast.

          1. I won’t say it’s impossible, but you’ll need to get pretty lucky, in terms of career, economy and health, to make it work.

            Young Folks, please do not doubt: another “market correction”/recession is coming and it will be here sooner rather than later. Don’t make future plans based on a continued healthy economy with low unemployment. That situation can turn on a dime, as we olds found out in 2008.

          2. Thing is though, there’s no such thing as “a simple life” in your golden years. You can start out that way, sure, but when you have dementia or serious physical health problems and need a nursing home or round-the-clock care in your home it’s $$$$, no two ways about it. My parents retired at 65 with plans to spend $10-20k a year at most on necessities (utilities, food, property taxes), since their house and cars were all paid off and they indulge in a lot of fancy stuff. That was the case for maybe 5 or 10 years, but pretty soon they were spending close to ten times that on healthcare/nursing costs. Nursing costs are huge and not generally covered by Medicare, so it’s not as simple as just “oh, I don’t care about driving a Lexus or taking extravagant vacations during my retirement years.” That’s a good start, but it gets you maybe 5% of the way there.

    1. it’s not the cashiers… it’s the juniors who missed stuff you asked them to do the first time and you have to constantly follow up, and their response to, “hey, please do X [which I asked you to do 3 days ago]” is “no problem”

      GAH

        1. I actually did. And it’s still not an appropriate response to a criticism. If someone says thank you, fine. But if someone says ‘you didn’t attach a spreadsheet like I asked you, send again,’ it’s not fine; the correct response is ‘sorry, here it is.’

          1. Thanks AIMS, that’s exactly the point. I have no problem with “no problem” as a filler, but it’s not ALWAYS appropriate.

          2. +1. I say “of course” or “you got it” or “no worries” when someone thanks me. I say “no worries” if someone apologizes to me.

            If I made a mistake on a doc and my boss had to follow up on it, I’d say “I apologize for missing this. Here’s the corrected document” and then police my work extra hard.

  25. Can anyone recommend a pair of ankle boots/booties, flat or with a small heel, that are tight at the ankles? The heels and ankles are so large on some of the boots that I’m trying on that my heel actually comes out of the boot when I walk (while my toes are at the top, it’s not too big).

    1. Try searching for sock boots, they are fitted at the ankle and stretch to fit the shape. Some are cuter than others.

  26. I won’t post about this often, but join our new book club! Search for this site on Good Reads- it’s the one with part of the slogan in the title.

  27. Apparently in all my moving in the past year I managed to lose my collection of tights (to wear skirts in winter). What are your favorites? Bonus if I can order from Amazon.

    2. Commando are the bomb. So comfy. If you want something less pricey–Hue makes solid standbys with a ton of options for colors/ texture etc.

      I like summer…but to be honest–really glad tights season is back!

    3. I know about Commando but they always seem to slide down while I walk. Are there any tights out there that (1) won’t pinch my stomach, but (2) will stay up?

    5. I love Danskin tights. Their Light Toast matches my skin, they’re machine washable, they’re fairly warm and because they’re made for dancers they’re pretty durable. I get them through Amazon Prime, each pair is $14ish.

    3. I tried it, with no success. I spent a year (literally one year) working to get a suit tailored, and every time they’d adjust something to get the fit right in one area, they’d cause a problem in a different area. About 6 months in, they redid the jacket completely. The results were still terrible. The problem was that despite working with two reps that specialize in women, the tailors didn’t really know how to work women’s bodies…especially very curvy ones. They acknowledged that the company was still working out the kinks with the new patterns for women.

      I was very disappointed, as I had this dream of being able to order a full wardrobe of custom made suites. If you have a very straight body, you may have success, but they just could not figure out how to cut a jacket to accommodate a large bust.

  29. I have the Chase Sapphire card (the regular one), my husband has the Chase Sapphire Preferred card, and I am considering upgrading to the Chase Sapphire Reserve. But since I already have a Chase card, I will not get the insane miles bonus that comes with it. Do you think it’s still worth it? My understanding is that after you get your $300/year travel credit, it’s basically like having a $150/year luxury credit card. But I’m not sure if I have to pay the $450 annual fee up front and get the $300 credit at the end of the year, which would give me pause – checking with Chase on this. But does anyone have thoughts on the card generally?

    1. I just got this card and you get the $300 travel credit immediately. As in, you make a travel-related charge (which includes Uber/Lyft and also parking) and they credit it back instantly until you reach $300. The $450 is charged in the first billing cycle. We went out of town for Labor Day and charged the hotel so we got the whole $300 right away.

    2. I already had Chase Sapphire and still got the big miles bonus with Chase Reserve (in January this year). I don’t know if they’ve changed it now though?

      i’m a big fan of my Chase Reserve card. The Priority Pass is worth a lot to me (airport lounge access), and the $300 travel credit meant that the annual fee isn’t that high. You also get more $ worth per point when you book travel through the Chase portal, so I use it a ton to book both flights and hotels.

      1. yes now they are telling me I can’t get a bonus (they also wouldn’t give me a bonus when I upgraded from Chase Freedom to Chase Sapphire originally). I wonder if this is something I can negotiate?

        1. Would you consider leaving your Preferred open, applying for the Reserve, and then canceling the Preferred later? You can transfer all of the points over before you cancel the Preferred. That’s how I got both bonuses.

          1. will try this! I may need to cancel another Chase card first (I already have three and I think that’s the limit)- one is the amazon card, the other is the southwest card. I don’t really use either one anymore. I’ll see about canceling the Amazon card.

          2. You can’t get the bonus if you upgrade from the preferred, but you can if you open the reserve as a new card. Or at least that was the case back on January. You can then downgrade the preferred to a no-fee card, like the chase freedom. That’s what I did. Applying for the reserve as a new card will show up as a hard inquiry on your credit report (and will thereafter be an additional account, pushing your average age of accounts lower), but it was worth it to me to get the bonus. Downgrading a card doesn’t trigger a hard inquiry.

        2. Can you just open another card instead of upgrading to qualify for the bonus? You can always shut down your Sapphire or downgrade it to a no-fee Freedom/Freedom Unlimited. Chase is really good/easy to combine credit lines with as well.

          You are eligible for the $300 as soon as you get the card, and it’s calendar year based. So if you got the Reserve now, you’d have $300 to use before the end of the year and a new $300 on Jan 1.

    3. I didn’t think I’d care about this, but the Avis Preferred that comes with the Reserve has been AMAZING. I pay for the cheapest car rental, and then skip the line and inevitably get an upgrade to a much better car. And nobody ever tries to sell me insurance or other upcharges.

      And, I had the same experience as Mary Ann Singleton earlier this year. I canceled my Preferred and signed up for the Reserve and got the full mileage bonus.

  30. I’m a long time fan of Young House Love and today on their podcast they talked about the fact they’ve completely paid off the mortgage on their (nice) 4/2.5 house and bought two separate beach properties. I really, really wish I’d started a blog in 2007. I’m trying to remember to use this as a motivator, but ugh, ugh, ugh. Sometimes I feel like I’ll never achieve my financial goals and “catch up”.

    1. You’re basically comparing yourself to celebrities. The YHL couple have published books and sponsored product lines based upon the value of their brand. In other words, this is probably not the most realistic yardstick to measure yourself against.

    2. Yeah, I wouldn’t use YHL as a great example of how to live life. That financial security came at a big price, if you ask me.

      1. I don’t really follow them, but I liked their blog when I read it, what was the big price?

      2. Kind of like how Mr. Money Mustache “early retired” off his job earnings – but now makes $400k per year as an internet celebrity, so he wouldn’t have to go back to work anyway. It’s so much about being in the right place at the right time with the right idea.

  31. I need new rainboots, any recommendation re: chain stores or places local to Boston/New England? I threw mine away in a massive pre-move purge because they were in such bad shape and duct tape can only do so much, but now it’s gonna rain all week and I should probably get new ones. Yellow would match my raincoat, or maybe a nice autumnal color for now and I can get yellow or some other spring color in March.

  32. what do you tell your employer you’re doing when you’re going to an interview, when that employer requires doctors notes for all doctors appointments?

      1. this can be difficult, too, if you have to give a certain amount of notice to request vacation leave

    2. Not helpful, but this is ridiculous. I would never think to ask that in an interview, but I guess we should.

    3. My doctor and I have a great relationship and his nurse will write me a note pretty much any time I need it. I’ve gotten notes for “mental health days” before. You might just ask your doctor.

    4. car appointment (oil change, inspection, etc); cable guy/plumber/electrician; vet appointment for your pet

    5. Would a note from a CVS minute clinic work for a doctor’s note? If so update your tetanus vaccine or get a flu shot. Ask the provider to be vague on the note.

    6. Childcare emergency, family emergency, car broke down, basement flooded. I’ve also scheduled a routine doctor’s appointment on the same day as an interview.

  33. I don’t know if I need a new job, or if I’m experiencing something that’s just part of this career stage. I’m in my upper 30’s and working in higher ed. I’m a middle manager — not a lot of power, but lots of pressure to keep people happy and further the mission, no matter how unrealistic the expectations. I’m still doing substantive work on top of managing people, and I feel constantly caught in the middle between my administrators and my staff. Every day is some version of: Sorry colleague, I can’t allow you time to work on project XYZ, even though it would be a good, impactful thing to do. I need you to do ABC instead, because that’s what administrator wants and expects. I push back (probably too often), but at the end of the day, I know that I’m expected to suck it up and find a way to make it happen. I feel like I have very little control over the situation. I’m good at keeping a team on task and managing projects, but the constant surprises frustrate me to no end. It doesn’t help that my administrators don’t communicate well with each other and are clueless about the actual work involved in making things happen.

    Anyway, it’s all very tiring and draining. Even the parts of my job that should be “fun,” just aren’t anymore. I’ve always gotten stellar reviews, but my anxiety is high and it’s affecting other parts of my life. I sometimes cry before work in the morning because I feel so ill-suited to this. So what do I do next? Find a new job? Figure out how to manage the anxiety better? I know my former boss dealt with this, and I now understand why she was stressed all the time.

    1. Lexapro.

      Plus, higher ed is really, really hard in middle management. My husband is in a similar job – substance plus admin, grants plus conferences, research management plus own research – and it’s just an impossible set of expectations. I don’t know what the answer is, but I do think you should consider how you can be “good enough” on the parts of your job that are impossible, and then save your best energy for the parts of your job where you get to have autonomy.

      1. Thank you. It gives me some comfort to know that it isn’t just me and your advice about figuring out what’s “good enough” is helpful.

    2. No advice, but solidarity – I’m in a pretty similar position (also in higher ed), and it seems to be SOP for middle management staff positions. Personally, I’m going to stick it out a while longer (see my earlier post today), but I think this type of job just kind of sucks.

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