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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Saint + Sofia is a new-to-me brand that popped up in my Instagram feed recently. It’s a British company that focuses on sustainability and uses just-in-time production to keep costs low. This tee was one of my favorite pieces from the collection — the slightly puffed sleeves make it look a little fancier than a normal T-shirt.
For work, I would wear it tucked into a midi skirt or a pair of trousers. For weekends, it would look great with a pair of high-waisted jeans.
The top is $36 at Saint + Sofia. It comes in sizes 2–18 and also comes in cream, navy, and black.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – 30% off your purchase
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Bergdorf Goodman – Save up to 40% on new markdowns
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anonymous
I plan to spend Labor Day weekend cleaning my apartment. I have amassed a lot of “stuff”. I am realizing a lot of it is practical, but nearly never used (straps for team lifting heavy furniture, spare vacuum parts, extension cords, curtain rods, blank notebooks, … you name it). I might have purchased something that was useful at a prior rental home but now isn’t. I might move again in two years, but I pay movers and have no idea what kind of layout/windows/etc. What do you think: donate practical but rarely-used or location-specific stuff, or organize it and keep it?
bbb
I would donate, but not to Goodwill or the like. Instead, use somewhere like Freecycle. That is a WAY better way to make sure your stuff gets into the hands of someone that actually needs and will use it.
Anonymous
+1 these are great candidates for Buy Nothing posts.
Anonymous
+1 to freecycle, but also look into your local buy nothing group (often on fbmp) or whatever the popular second hand site/app is in your area (gumtree, Craigslist, Kijiji, etc). Great way to ensure your items get a second life.
Anon
Why do people advise against donating to Goodwill? It seems like the type of place people go to find all kinds of useful stuff.
bbb
I’ve volunteered sorting clothes in a place like that, and they are overwhelmed with stuff. Most of the stuff doesn’t even get to the floor, even if it’s nice. And then if it’s something random like these, there’s just zero chance it’ll make it to the floor and then the right person will find it.
Anon
I use Craigslist free. Tip – do not promise it to the first person who responds. Those are invariably flakes who just wanted to be first – it’s weird, but time and time again they’ve ditched me and never answered my emails.
Wait a day, or half a day if you have a ton of responses, and promise it to the person with a solid plan for how they will come get it from you.
Anon
I love the phrase “store items at the store.” You don’t need them now. Get rid of them.
Cat
I usually keep items like this.
You know you’re moving again, so why pay for straps twice?
Unless you got rid of the vacuum, why throw out extra parts?
Extension cords and curtain rods take so little space to store, why waste them?
Blank notebooks – if you’ve gone totally digital, donate away.
Maybe I’m excessively frugal but the thought of having to buy something *again* just because I couldn’t be bothered to organize it would really annoy Future Me for having gotten rid of the original…
editor
I agree; I would keep all of these, except maybe the curtain rods if they were the cheap kind or if the hardware was in a previous wall.
HFB
I agree with the other two posters, esp about donating on free cycle or similar ( rather than Goodwill). Except for “spare vacuum parts”- do you mean cleaning attachments that came with your vacuum? I’d keep those. I very very rarely use my vacuums cleaning attachments but when I need one, I really need it and it would really suck ( haha!) to not have that one pice when it would be useful.
Anon
Toss/get rid of (however makes sense for you, donate, etc.). Odds of needing these things are low and odds of finding them amidst your stuff when you do such that you don’t buy them again, even lower.
Anonymous
If you can replace it for under 20 dollars in under 24 hours, get rid of it.
anon
I need to make this into a poster and hang it up in my house.
Anonymous
Trash it. Most of what you described is trash. No one wants your vacuum cleaner parts.
Anon
This.
Anon
Disagree. Maybe toss the vacuum cleaner parts as they’re most likely model specific but everything else can be donated/given away.
It’s far too wasteful to toss things just because you don’t want to deal with them.
Anonymous
I think this is a piece by piece analysis: blank notebooks go to the box collecting school supplies, curtain rods to Freecycle because they are annoying to store and there’s no telling when/if they will be useful again, extension cords and straps keep because they are easy to store and will no question be useful again.
Anon
I have never once in my life used a moving strap.
bbb
Especially if she plans to hire movers
Anon
OTOH, my mad scientist father gave me a hand truck as a birthday present one year and I swear that thing was in constant use in my 20s, with annual or bi-annual moving or friends who were always moving (why was I fit then? “moving” was a perpetual weekend activity; if you weren’t, then a friend was and there would be pizza and beer after). I still have it, even though I hire movers now when I move.
Senior Attorney
I’m in my 60s and still use the hand truck at least monthly. When you are a homeowner there are always heavy things that need to be moved from Point A to Point B.
Coach Laura
Same here. Handtruck is a treasured tool at age 40, 50 and now 60.
Anon
When I was a kid, my parents called what other people referred to as a hand truck a “dolly,” which I now know isn’t quite accurate. Anyway, when I heard the term hand truck, I figured it meant a pickup truck with no pedals and all controls were done by hand. Which turned out to be embarrassing when my parents’ newly paraplegic friend was showing us his special pickup truck.
Anonymous
I use my moving straps like once a month probably? I have a lot of antiques and often need to move them for cleaning, cat toy rescue etc. Lifting that stuff with brute force is terrible for your back and sliding it on the floors is a great way to scratch the hardwood.
No Face
We use moving straps frequently as well. Maybe not once per month, but they are very useful.
Senior Attorney
I put those slider things under all my heavy furniture and it was a total game changer.
Gail the Goldfish
I use furniture sliders, and they are life changing.
Gail the Goldfish
if your local habitat for humanity has a restore store, i’d take home-related items there.
anon
That is a very cute shirt. A similar brand I’ve just discovered is The Kit. I ordered the safari-print mini skirt and the quality is fab, especially for the price, though it did run a bit small.
anon
Here’s the skirt:
https://www.thekit.com/collections/skirts/products/cargo-skirt-palampore?variant=39333120933971
emeralds
That skirt is CUTE. I’m tempted.
emeralds
Now I’m tempted by everything on their website. Damn.
Senior Attorney
OMG you guys! Look at the jumpsuits!
bbb
I originally ordered a small that was SMALL and then returned it for a medium that zips but is not super comfortable, FYI. I would say I’m usually a small but sometimes a medium, for reference.
Senior Attorney
OMG I am such a sucker for a cute skirt, and that is a hella cute skirt…
Anon
Love the skirt!! Thanks for sharing! Will have fun looking through this website!
Anon
DANG that is a cute skirt! DO NOT NEED DO NOT NEED CHUB RUB WILL BE LETHAL MAYBE THERE IS A SKORT VERSION PLEASE LET THERE BE A SKORT VERSION
AZCPA
I just put short under all my skirts, just do that here?
Anon
I appreciate when retailers include information like “the model is wearing a size small;” I look at her and think, okay, I’m two sizes up, not one, so a large would fit better than a medium.
Cat
Same, and especially when they include the model’s actual height and bust-waist-hip measurements. Zappos is typically awesome at this and Bloomie’s often is, too.
Anon
But NONE of the pictured models is ever under 5’7”, usually 5’9” to 5’11”, so these of us who are average or short are left with the impression (frequently born out by reality) that the featured item will look like trash unless the wearer is tall.
Anon
The Kit actually runs short. You can see in the pics that some of the long sleeve shirts are too short for the models. Disappointing, as I ordered some and they didn’t fit me either.
Anon
Some of the models are 5-11 though (I love it when they state it). I’m 5-4, so I bet they would fit me just fine.
Anonymous
I don’t believe the measurements and sizes, though. Jeans are always “modeled in size 26” by models whose waist sizes supposedly range from 23 to 26 inches. I own many of these styles in a 26 and can attest that they would fall right off of someone with a 23-inch waist.
MechanicalKeyboard
I’ve been eyeballing this brand for some months now so I’m ecstatic to hear that the quality is good!
Annony
Oh, wow. I can’t decide if this is good news or bad news, lol. I’ve been eyeing a few things from there for awhile, but Wardrobe Oxygen did a review a few months back and said the quality was abysmal and in the photos she showed, it was visibly poor. It was also obvious that it pained her to give it such a negative review … she really wanted to love the clothes (it’s Daniel Vosovic’s company, if you are a Project Runway fan!). But perhaps I’ll try it anyway!
Worried
Love the top and the skirt. I had a top almost identical to this ten years ago in cobalt and it went with so many outfits. The skirt makes me want to sew one in the same shape, but of course the print is the unique aspect of this and would be tough to replicate.
Old cigarette smell
I am renting a house and occasionally one of the rooms smells ever so faintly of stale cigarette smoke. I’m almost certain the most recent resident (aka the owner and our landlord) was not a smoker, so my guess is that the smell is from someone who lived here several years ago. The room is small and only has one window, so the poor ventilation has probably contributed to the issue.
It seems like the best solution would be to repaint the room, including a coat of Kilz primer. Is there anything else we could try before going this route? For example, spraying apple cider vinegar or febreeze on the walls, air purifier, etc.? Maybe the smell will go away when the weather goes down?
Anon
It’s probably a ghost so exorcism is your best bet /kidding
Anonymous
Is the room carpeted?
If you repaint, don’t forget the ceiling.
Cat
is the room carpeted? That will hang onto smells for-ev-er so maybe you could convince the owner to replace it, if so.
Anonymous
+1 if it’s carpet the carpet must go, there is no saving it.
KS IT Chick
I agree with the repainting. Instead of Killz, try Zinsser. I have used the shellac based version to cover a concrete slab floor that was soaked in cat urine and it completely sealed the smell so that our boy didn’t notice the smell.
Anon
I think ozone generators work for smell removal. You can paint but it won’t help if the smell is coming from the floor.
Anonymous
If there is carpet, I would get it professionally cleaned, and then see where you are.
Anonymous
I’d use Clorox Anywhere spray first. It is safe to use on walls. I wash my walls with it before painting.
Anonymous
Cigarette smoke is insidious. I third repainting and DEEP carpet cleaning, also suggest continually running an air purifier. May still linger, but those will help. Good luck OP!
OP
Thanks for the suggestions! Pretty sure the carpet has been replaced. My nose tells me it’s the walls where the scent is lingering. I might have to get up on a ladder and give the ceiling a good whiff. Our landlord seemed really into home improvements and keeping this place up, but the ceiling could be easy to miss.
anon
So I went through this with a rental property I own. The walls were too nicotine damaged there so I had to completely gut the walls and remove the insulation too, and do completely new drywall, but that was an extreme case (12 years with a heavy heavy chainsmoker – there was nicotine and tar dripping from the ceiling in the bathroom when the shower was on). I looked into a lot of options before that. The problem is that cigarette smoke byproducts permeate the drywall. You can paint and it will look good and smell better for a while, but the byproducts will slowly start to seep through. (Apparently this happens sometimes when you buy a house with freshly painted rooms – very unfortunate thing to discover 6 months down the line.) Ozone is very dangerous and was not recommended by the professional smoke remediator I spoke with. If you are just renting, you may want to look into washing the walls with TSP (use protective gear), then seal with Killz (you need an oil based primer unfortunately, again use protective gear and ensure good ventilation) and then painting over it. It will work pretty well for non-extreme cases.
Audreycat
I lived somewhere once where my bedroom had been the prior owner’s “smoking lounge”. This guy smoked several cigars a day without ventilation. The whole place was light brown (had been while) and the smell was extreme. We had to replace the ceiling because the smoke had penetrated the drywall and infused the popcorn ceiling coating (it was the 80’s lol). This was after repainting and replacing the carpet. Depending on the amount of smoke, you may require serious remediation.
Anonanonanon
I am in search of sleeveless or short sleeved tops for under suits. I am an apple shape so in general I avoid tops I have to tuck in. Any suggestions for structured, forgiving tops that meet these requirements? TIA!
Anonanonanon
OP here-I am also short waisted too if that impacts any suggestions.
Anon
I’m also a short-waisted apple shape and I haven’t tucked in a shirt in years. A surprising favorite of brand of mine for simple tops is the is Worthington form JC Penny. I wear the “Worthington Women’s Round Neck Sleeveless Tank Top” in black very frequently as well as a couple of their other shells. They are forgiving around the midsection without looking rumpled and weird. They’re not too long so they lay nicely when untucked. I also like some Calvin Klein shells(from wherever) and Caslon shells from Nordstrom.
anonymous
Macys. I have a few sleeveless shells from there from Alfani.
Pep
I have a ton of the Calvin Klein sleeveless shells. Easy to find and not expensive at TJMaxx, Marshalls, Nordstrom Rack and the like.
pugsnbourbon
I find a handful of Pleione tops when I hit Marshalls, too.
Mary
I am a similar shape and also looking for work tops, but with short sleeves to wear untucked without a jacket in a business casual office. With the temp running in the mid to upper 90’s, I just want something cool and professional. Any suggestions for short sleeve tops?
Anon
Hi those are all my shirts! I wait until Talbots has a good sale and then I buy a bunch.
There’s also a perennially popular Calvin Klein that has a square pleat at the neckline. It’s been featured on here a number of times.
https://www.macys.com/shop/product/calvin-klein-pleated-v-neck-shell?ID=3340591
Anon
I bought a shirt that criss-crosses from wait to hem. It looked cute on the model (what doesn’t though), but on me, it seems to add volume where I need it least. OTOH, it looks like shirt volume (but there is plenty of me volume). If you have a good shirt like this, can you post a link? Not sure if it’s a keep / return item, but I fear it could become a wear-twice-and-give-up-on shirt that I keep b/c sometimes a clean top is better than doing laundry when you have no time (this, always this).
Cat
you sound like you don’t actually like the shirt, so just… return it?
Anon
This. I only keep stuff that I am tempted to wear so often that my co workers will side eye me.
Anon
The “if it’s not a hell yes, it’s a no” applies to so much more than dating! Literally everything in my life uses this phrase!
The Lone Ranger
Sounds like it’s a return item for you. If it’s a look you really want, then keep looking, but unless you love it — and you don’t — return it.
Anon
OP here. My white shirts are lately dying in what I think are rust-stain accidents. Is there any way to get a rust stain out? I’m willing to take on a B- shirt in the meantime.
Cat
Carbona Stain Devils work wonders. I had rust stains all over a pretty white coverup thanks to a rusty beach chair. Gone!
Anonymous
Life is not this hard. It is just a shirt. You don’t like it. Return it and move on.
Anonymous
+1. OP, you’ve gotta save yourself some mental energy on clothes. It’s worth it.
Anon
Are you the same posters that keep getting offended by people who show interest in clothing on a fashion blog?
Maybe you’re in the wrong place, not all the posters you’ve decided it’s your job to be snarky to.
anon
Has Kat ever done a survey of site readers? How about a fun Friday thread? Respond with:
1) How/why you started reading and when
2) How often do you read the main site and/or moms site
3) How often you comment (never, rarely, often, almost daily)
4) Where you live (specific city preferred)
I’ll go first!
1) I found the moms site in 2015 because I was googling for info on symphysis pubis dysfunction. There were very few resources on SPD at the time, and Kat’s description on corporettemoms was one of the few I found. It took me a while to come over to corporette and it took me an embarrassingly long time before I realized all the fun was in the comments! :)
2) read the main site and moms site daily but I usually don’t have time to comment during the day
3) I rarely comment because I rarely have time to comment
4) New Orleans, LA but I lived in NYC when I started reading
Anon
I’ll pay.
1) I have read occasionally for years but I became a daily reader early in the pandemic because the comments gave me some sense of human interaction.
2) I read the main site daily and the moms site never.
3) I rarely comment and often skip whole sections of comments that are vitriolic or appear to be trolling.
4) Baltimore, MD
Patricia Gardiner
Oh hey I’m in Baltimore! I wonder if (pandemic permitting…) there are enough Baltimore ‘r*ttes to do a meetup sometime?
Sarabeth
Baltimore for me too!
Anonymous
+1!
Anon
1) Found it in 2010 as I was starting law school
2) Daily
3) Daily
4) DC
Anonymous
There was a survey an age ago, not sure what year.
1) Started reading in 2009 when a fellow summer associate told me about the s i t e.
2) I’ve never read the mom’s version. I’m here almost daily during the pandemic. Makes me feel like I have someone to “talk” to during the day.
3) A lot more often during the pandemic, for the reason stated above.
4) Outside of Philly.
Cat
1) Since the very beginning – the blog started just as I launched my legal career. I have no earthly idea how I found it…
2) Daily here, never moms
3) Almost daily, especially in Remote Times it fills my “break chat” needs :)
4) Philly
PolyD
1) I think around 2010, when I had just started a new job and things were slow
2) Read the main site daily. Never read the moms site
3) Probably comment close to daily
4) DC area
Bonus: I have no way of proving this, so you’ll have to take my word, but I coined Frugal Fridays back in the day. Kat was looking for a title for promoting cheaper items on Friday, I think Bargain Fridays was also one of the contenders.
Anon
1) found it circa 2012 looking for women in tech interview attire or similar. I visited rarely and it took me a couple of years until I “discovered” the comments via “thread jacks of interest”. (An aside – I actually miss Ellen’s commentary, spelling and all… )
2) daily
3) rarely
4) Mtl, Canada
Anonymous
1. Started around 2010 before graduating, was looking for interview clothes
2. Daily and have recently started reading the moms site since we are considering TTC.
3. Almost daily, although I’m stuck in perma-mod. My job doesn’t challenge me and I’m not busy enough so I often come here when I’m wasting time.
4. San Francisco Bay Area.
Anonymous
1) I started reading in 2013 while still in university and trying to figure out social norms at my first office job.
2) I read the site daily now but it waxes and wanes, sometimes I go months without reading. Never read the moms site.
3) Comments vary according to reading frequency and my general interests in threads (mostly I champion work life balance and taking down the patriarchy)
4) Ottawa, have always lived here while a reader but have lived in many other Canadian cities too.
Anonymous
Found in a search for blogs about professional clothing for women, read almost every day, comment frequently but usually with positive suggestions or recommendations (I made an exception for responding to Covid-denier posts), and am very glad there is now a separate mom’s page that I can skip.
Lyssa
I feel like Kat has done this, but not in a long time. I read an article about Corporette, maybe in the NYT or something similar, back when I was clerking, so 2009-2010, and started reading daily. Back then, Kat was not a mom, otherwise employed, and referred to herself anonymously as “we”!
Kat started the moms page and had her own kid right around the same time I did, so I jumped on that right away (2012-ish, wow, it’s not that new I guess). That’s my first choice, and I’ve sometimes stayed away from the main for a while because there is just too much trolling and negativity here, but I usually come back.
I used to comment frequently, but it’s pretty rare now. Have tried to cut back in general on that.
I live in a smallish city in the southeast. (Culturally, it often feels like the average commenter here lives in a different country, or maybe planet.)
Coach Laura
Lyssa, I remember you (and Kat) both from before your first pregnancy.
Cornellian
1. I started reading my 1L year of law school, which was 2008!
2. Main site I’ve been reading a day or two a week recently
3. I comment basically every day I read, but disappeared for a few years.
4. Austin. Formerly NYC and Moscow.
Anon.
1) Since the beginning in 2008, just after law school graduation and I really needed help putting together a professional wardrobe and generally learning how to be a professional adult
2) Moms daily, Main a couple times a week
3) maybe once a week
4) Peoria IL
Amberwitch
1) Don’t know exactly, but in the early years. 2009 perhaps?
2) I read the site almost daily, several times a week at the least
3) I rarely comment – some of it is because I am in another timezone than most of the action and the discussions are usually very US-centric
4) Copenhagen, Denmark
Patricia Gardiner
1) Wow… 2015? I was searching for comfortable heels and got hooked
2) Both main site and mom’s site almost daily
3) I comment rarely and usually towards the end of the day when I get a chance to read
4) Baltimore, MD
I'll go
1. Started reading the site in about the early 2010s when I started my first real job. I was searching for advice and inspiration on how to dress professionally.
2. I read both here and the mom’s sites daily. I have young kids so it’s super helpful.
3. I comment pretty rarely but will when it seems helpful.
4. I’m in the Bay Area
Vicky Austin
1 – Discovered the main site in 2017ish while still in college (yes, I am an infant) looking for, I think, what color tights to wear with a brown skirt.
2 – I’m here almost every day and I read the moms site on slow days
3 – Comes and goes. A few months ago I was commenting often, but it dropped off for a few months while my job imploded. (I can see the light at the end of the tunnel finally!)
4 – North Dakota
Curious
I’m so glad to hear there’s light at the end of the tunnel! Your job has sounded rough for a while.
Pomme-Grenade
1) found the moms site and then the main site at the end of 2016 when I was coming back from a 15-months mat leave and looking for office clothes and tips on work-life balance. I found that the comments were so interesting and so helpful. I have learned so much from those 2 sites and have recommended them to other colleagues/friends
2) almost daily for the main site and once a week for the mom site (used to go daily on the moms site but now that my kids are “older” I go less)
3) rarely
4) Montreal, Canada
Anonymous
1) I started reading after law school, when I felt alone being one of the only women in my company of 1000 employees who had an advanced degree
2) I read the site probably 2-3 days a week
3) I rarely comment – maybe once a month? And I probably ask a question every quarter or so. Most of the time I get helpful advice or different perspectives. Some of the time I feel like comments veer off in ways I couldn’t predict (like, I meant to say, “I think I’m underpaid, how do I research this” and then I interpret answers to say “you’re lucky you have a job and don’t make minimum wage!). Do I know whether this is just a “me” thing or really this s*te? No. But it tends to turn me off for a few days after I wonder if I truly am being ungrateful, etc.
4) I live in a small town in Iowa, about an hour away from Des Moines.
Anon
1) 2008, first job out law school as a law clerk. Can’t remember how I found the site.
2) Every day (main and moms)
3) Comment a couple times a week
4) Twin Cities suburb.
These sites have been my lifeline multiple times, as I navigate life as a new lawyer, new parent, new supervisor … so appreciate the collective wisdom of the women on these boards.
Anon
1) 4-5 years, I think? I honestly can’t remember. I know I originally found this site through AAM.
2) Daily. Been lurking on the moms site more frequently because we’re TTC.
3) Not daily, but pretty frequently.
4) PNW
Anon
1. I found this in 2017 or thereabouts while trying to improve my work fashion when AT and other mall brands really started to go downhill.
2. Read the main page daily; read the mom’s page every few days.
3. Comment often. The comments section can get really nasty really fast – IMHO, it doesn’t take very many mean people to change the entire tone.
4. Small college town in the Midwest.
RR
1. I started reading in 2009/10. I think I saw a recommendation in an article or something; I don’t remember.
2. I usually read every day, and I catch up if I miss days. I don’t always read the comments unless I have time.
3. I comment sometimes.
4. Columbus, OH
Anon
I was trying to figure this out the other day… I must have started reading right at the beginning in 2008 or 2009, as a very young grad student planning what to wear for a conference. That was back in the days of subscribing to blogs, IIRC. I haven’t visited faithfully all that time! I think I returned after years or at least months of not really visiting. But I remember commenters with handles coming and going over the years (and some of their stories). I remember deliberately checking the mom’s site for cheaper, more washable clothing recommendations (not so much for comments).
Anonymous
1. 2008 (my 2L year). No recollection of how I found it.
2. Have read daily on and off ever since. Occasionally it gets too toxic/groupthink in the comments and I take a break for a while.
3. I rarely comment (once a month.)
4. Atl
Anon100
1) 2010 during my internship in DC, probably got here via CapHill Style
2) Main site nearly daily when I’m in my office, moms site every now and then if I’m curious
3) Somewhere between rarely and often
4) Baltimore, MD suburb now but previously outskirts of DC on the MD side
London (formerly NY) CPA
1) In grad school (2015) while I was searching for comfy heels (still searching…)
2) Main site – most days, mom’s site – never
3) Often? or somewhere in between
4) London but used to live in Manhattan
Anon
1) I’ve been reading (or at least quickly skimming through) daily since 2009 when I was a law student. Don’t remember how I happened upon it, and I’ve never visited the mom’s page.
2) See above.
3) Not much. Between two and two dozen times a year?
4) Salt Lake City
Anonymous
Think I found this place maybe back in 2015? Might have been earlier. Polyvore was still a thing, and I think Imogen at insideoutstyleblog still had dark hair.
Didn’t read daily/weekly until I discovered the comments. Still drop out for longer times, but usually check in daily or every few days. Comment activity varies, both on theme and time, since I’m on CET in Europe. Never read the mom page.
Anon
1. Somewhere between 2009-2010. Don’t remember exactly, but I was still in grad school and was probably looking for ideas of what to wear for interviews and teaching.
2. Read most days
3. I go in spurts of commenting, depending on how busy I am and whether I read when the discussion is ongoing or later in the day. A lot of my comments take a long time to post which discourages me from posting more
4. A small city on the west coast
Anon
1. Years ago
2. Daily; moms site a few times a week
3. A few times a week
4. New Orleans (to the other Nola and surrounding area readers – stay safe from Ida! Ugh and with the anniversary of Katrina on Sunday!)
eertmeert
1) I found this site around 2009 iirc, I was in school and needed business casual clothes for an internship. Stayed for the comment section.
2) don’t have kids, only read the main site, definitely at least once a day typically twice
3)wfh
4)PNW
Shenandoah
1) Around 2010/2011. I was struggling with my career path and figuring out how to function as a young professional. This site has been such a valuable resource for me personally and professionally.
2) Almost daily.
3) I’m not very good at commenting regularly. I’m more of a lurker.
4) South Carolina
Curious
1) Sometime after 2015? I have no idea how I got here. I stayed for the comments, of course.
2) Daily for main, several times a week for Moms now that we are expecting our first.
3) I comment in waves, but I’d say frequently.
4) PNW!
Coach Laura
1) How/why you started reading and when – Started in 2010 came for the fashion, stayed for the comments. Was in a highly structured corporate finance role then and needed more fashion role models.
2) How often do you read the main site and/or moms site – Main site daily, mom’s site once a week. I love the “Day in the Life” feature series, even though my kids are grown.
3) How often you comment (never, rarely, often, almost daily) – Almost daily
4) Where you live (specific city preferred) – Seattle
More Sleep Would Be Nice
1) A friend sent me the link to CMoms when I was pregnant
2) Daily
3) Cmoms – Often (2 kids under 4), Here – Rarely but love the fashion discussion and ideas
4) Houston, previously D.C. and NYC
Anon
1) a long time. Maybe 10+ years. I don’t remember.
2) always the main site, never the moms site (though I am a mom, my kids were older once they started and it didn’t feel relevant)
3) I tend to comment on any topic I have experience with. I’ve been working for a long time so career topics interest me most. (And sexism topics, unfortunately, because #metoo)
4) Bay Area
Friday
1) 2016. I was super bored at work and googled “best work blogs” and this was on some list.
2) I read the mom’s board almost every day. I rarely read the main site (yet here I am today).
3) I comment probably 3x per week on the mom’s site.
4) Houston
Anon
1) I found the blog several years ago through Capitol Hill Style, but didn’t start reading on a regular basis until early 2020 when I realized what a gold mine the comments section is! How did it take me so long?
2) Main site – almost daily; Moms’ site – rarely
3) Often
4) Boston, MA
Anon
1) I found this page almost immediately after it started. 2008-9ish? I was in law school. I browsed the moms page occasionally when I was childless and became a regular reader when I had my child in 2018.
2) I used to read here daily but have had to take a lot of breaks during the pandemic because all the debates about that are bad for my mental health. I’ve also taken breaks from the moms page and am taking one currently.
3) when I’m reading, I usually comment daily.
4) I live in a college town in the Midwest and agree with Lyssa that culturally I often feel like I’m on another planet. Especially with Covid because most people in my state aren’t vaccinated and our cases are surging and I’m really worried about my under 12 kid, so it’s really hard for me to read about people in the northeast who are living normal-ish life in fully vaccinated bubbles.
Anon
I’m also in a Midwest college town and feel like this s-te is more reflective of the big arcs of my life than the people around me. So, so many people around me got married to their college sweethearts, started families early, stopped their education after college (almost always the flagship state school which is right down the road), all that. Nothing against it – it can be a great, great life.
But I’m a total fish out of water with all of my degrees and marrying in my late 30s, having a kid, and not having another kid and not staying at home with the kid and…. Yes, I have ambition! and interests of my own! I didn’t stop being a person when I got married!
Anon
Yeah I can see that. I live in a college town and my kid attends university-run daycare so we basically only know university professors (and their spouses, most of whom have advanced degrees as well). I was a “young” mom in my circles at 32 and most people we know have only 1 it 2 kids. I think 1 kid is actually the most common family size among our friends but there’s probably an element of seeking each other out. My high school classmates all live the rural Midwest SAHM with 4 kids lifestyle you describe and I agree it’s very different.
HFB
Has anyone purchased dr Liza shoes ( heels specifically) and can you comment on the quality and whether they really are as comfortable as the seller claims?
Anon
My office has been closed since March 2020 and there is no timeline for reopening. While I appreciate that my company is being extra cautious, the social isolation is really getting to me. I now realize that I probably depended too much on interacting with coworkers to fulfill much of my day-to-day social needs. I live with my spouse, but otherwise don’t have any friends here who I could meet up with in person. During much of the pandemic, I zoomed with college friends about once a month, but that has tapered off as their family obligations (e.g., new kids) have increased.
Anyone else in the same boat? How are you coping? I’m starting to wonder if I should just look for a new job that offers a hybrid or in-person schedule. I’ve considered joining a coworking space but it’s not really within my budget and I’ve heard the vibe at coworking spaces is very different now compared to pre-Covid.
Anonymous
Sounds like you need to focus on making friends! Do you have hobbies? A local alum group? Search your FB friends for random connections? Pick up a class that meets regularly? Explore volunteering?
anon
+1 I enjoy my coworkers and often miss seeing them too but I’m now old enough to know that relying on your work as your social circle is a dangerous game as it can blind you to signs that you should leave your job and can make a sudden job loss even more devastating.
Focus on making new friends! Anonymous at 9:48 has some great suggestions. Volunteering, finding a class (cooking, photography, dance, anything that you find interesting!), alumni groups, industry networking events (maybe invite a co-worker to go with you), gym classes / running clubs, check out your local library if they have events that might be a good place to meet people are all good ways to meet people.
Also, lots of people lost touch with friends during the pandemic, you are not the only one. You can reach back out to people you haven’t connected with in a while – we’re all in the same boat. I recently re-connected with some friends I’d lost touch with and it’s so nice!
PolyD
I’m in your situation, although still hopeful we’ll go back to some kind of hybrid situation eventually. I, too, miss casual interactions with coworkers that don’t happen in a virtual environment. And I’m kind of tired of people making me feel bad for that, or that you shouldn’t rely on coworkers for socializing. Maybe, but most of us spend the vast majority of our hours working, so I don’t know how you wouldn’t look on coworkers as part of your social life! Maybe I’m lucky – I genuinely like most of my colleagues, and while I have socialized with some that I consider friends over the past year and a half, there are others that I haven’t seen since we went home and I do miss them.
I have plenty of nonwork friends, but it’s much harder to set up something to go see them (case in point – outdoor get-together with friends planned for last night was rained out) then it was to just walk down the hall and chat with a colleague/friend.
Higher Ed Staffer
I’ll chime in here and say that I have a rich life outside of work but the working remotely was getting to me. I’m in education and this is a people-driven business and a lot of things can’t be replicated virtually. Because of my role I was working in the office when most people were not and even that was preferable to me rather than working from home. I needed the division between home and work life. Now that we are somewhat back and more people are on campus, I’m so much happier, even if it means we have to wear masks and social distance.
No Face
Do you like your job otherwise? If you do, advocate for allowing people to work in the office when they want. My office was always like this, and there were a few people who preferred working in the office for at least of part of the day, every day while most people were at home.
Other than that, it sounds like you need to make friends in your area. Any thing that fits your covid parameters? For example, I love theatre and there is a lot of outdoor plays happening in my area. Some of the companies have “Friends of” groups that will meet up before the show and then watch the play together. Volunteer at a botanical garden so you can work with people outside. A hiking meetup? Outdoor yoga groups?
Anon
As usual, post your city to see if any readers want to meet for outdoor drinks or coffee.
anon
I’m…..not coping well! Add in that I’m pregnant (yay!!!) with a very high risk pregnancy (not so fun), so I’m extra cautious, and, I’m going a bit crazy! I miss connecting with my coworkers. My days are devolving into an unproductive, unstructured, too-much reading articles on the internet, mess. It makes me realize how much I depending on the structure and rhythms of work, and how much joy I got out of interacting with my team. I promise I’m generally organized, hard working, and good at my job, but right now….I suck! Somehow for me there’s a direct link between lack of social connection and too much internet surfing. What I’m trying to do to help the situation is: schedule some virtual coffees with coworkers, do 10 minute yoga and language practice sessions during the day (ok, maybe not great, but, better than disappearing down the internet void for 30 minutes), and scheduling more walks and things with friends in the evening (but, I only moved here a few months before the pandemic started, so, I don’t have very many of those!). I’m very eager to hear other people’s ideas.
PolyD
“ Somehow for me there’s a direct link between lack of social connection and too much internet surfing.”
You’re not the only one. And then I spend way too much time yelling at the dummies in the CDC Facebook page comments.
Anon
Oh wow, same here, and most definitely didn’t think about it this way.
Anon
+2, now that someone has pointed it out, I’ve realized it’s totally true for me as well. Ugh I need to fix it.
Anon
Well I just gained some insight into my screen use.
anonymous
Same boat. It doesn’t matter if I’m in the office because the people I work with on a daily basis are scattered across various locations in the US. So I’m either on conference calls sitting in my cubicle or conference calls at my dining table.
I’m feeling very isolated and alone. I’m married, but don’t really have a lot of friends. Probably suffering from a bit of depression too, because the thought of trying to go out and make friends sounds overwhelming. I’m introverted, but I do enjoy talking to people, but it’s easier if someone reaches out to me first.
No advice, but commiseration.
anon
Are you me? I feel very similar to you, and am also introverted, so it’s hard for me to make the effort to reach out first. I wish we were in the same city and could be pals!
Anon
Following this thread closely because I am in the same shoes, except I left my very lively and social job for a new job where everyone keeps to themselves, and I’ve now realized I made the mistake of letting my work supply most of my social interaction (which worked fine because I’m a strong introvert). But now I just have my family and I’m in a new city where I don’t know anyone – so it’s been rough. You’re not alone!
Anon
This all happened organically since I was spending more time online… but I ended up reconnecting with some people on social media. I joined some Discord servers and some Facebook groups. In the Facebook groups I ended up meeting some new people near me with some things in common. Basically I have more people I message with now.
It’s mostly too soon for me to start reconnecting with people in person (hospitals are full; with my medical conditions I’m advised to act as though I’m not fully vaccinated even though I am).
Bonnie Kate
This article really resonates: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/10/opinion/sunday/covid-group-emotions-happiness.html
I agree with all the advice so far – you don’t need a new job, you need hobbies/community that you can stay with regardless of your job. My specific recommendation is always yoga studios, because I’m biased and love yoga. Even if you’ve never done it, if you’re curious, I’d check out several studios around you, go to a few classes*, find a teacher/studio vibe you like, and keep going regularly. The best kinds of yoga people** are welcoming and I’ve made lots of friends this way.
*blah blah blah do what is best for you covid-wise. adding this before half the board jumps in that nothing is safe.
**just like in anything, some kinds of yoga people suck. but there’s A LOT of good ones. I avoid any studio/teacher that is overly judgey, tells people that they have to be vegan (etc) to really practice yoga, teach that there are perfect poses, or follows a specific guru. That is just not my scene, so I move on.
Anonymous
Has anyone read any good articles on being less judgmental? I have a friend who is always making terrible decisions about men. I was single/dating through most of it so we would trade stories about horrible men, except mine were a first/early date and hers were long term relationships; whereas I cut things off she kept going back for more. I’m recently married and she’s still with the same guy she’s been (very legitimately!) complaining about for years. She’s been a bit hostile lately toward my relationship and it’s made me reflect on my part in this apparent rift. I’m mindful of not being a smugmarried but I’m beginning to recognize that the same comments or advice I could give when I was unhappily single are not very well received now that I’m married. I think I need to change my own attitude if I’m going to maintain this friendship. I also need some tools to respond when she asks me for advice – she jokingly calls me her counsel advising her about all arguments with him, but I think that needs to stop. Which is hard because I’m so not a Socratic method kind of person; I’m direct, I will tell you what I think and bring the receipts. I don’t want to seem unsupportive but I also don’t want to deepen this rift. Advice?
Anon
A book isn’t going to bring you together in this stage of life. Friendships change over time and right now she’s not what you need. I’m also direct and might share those concerns directly with my friend, personally.
No Face
I am very direct too. “Listen, I know I have been a sounding board about X for years, but I don’t want to play that role anymore. You already know how I feel.”
Or, you can listen and answer in a boring way, then change the subject. I know several people who all know the same Toxic Person, and this Toxic Person comes up when we are together. My response is always, “That’s why I don’t talk to Toxic Person anymore.”
Them: Toxic Person sent me an email for my birthday, and when I responded she said XYZ horrible things! Can you believe it?!
Me: Yeah, I absolutely believe it. That’s why I don’t talk to Toxic Person anymore. She sent me a birthday email and I deleted it. Wait, I forgot to ask you about [your vacation, kid going to school, whatever]. How was that?
Anonymous
My therapist said to try repeating to myself “compassion before judgment” when my best friend is complaining about her shitty husband again and again. It does seem to work – I judge him privately but am better in conversation now.
Anon
No articles, just what’s worked for me: understanding that being judgemental doesn’t make my life better or her life better, because being judgemental is not the same thing as having and expressing one’s best attempt at good judgement. It’s not that my judgement is bad – it almost irritates people around me that I call how things will play out far in advance. So I say things once, maybe twice, and then leave it.
Understanding that, while 25 year olds make plenty of mistakes, people make them at 30 or 35 or 40 for deep-seated reasons that I, not being their psychologist, cannot fix. Young people can be overly optimistic or overly cautious or lack the life experience to know when a situation is just not going to end well. Older people tend to make those mistakes for reasons that are (colloquially) pathological. As Elsa said, let it go.
You do not have to let someone else’s mistakes hurt your own life. She shouldn’t be hostile to your marriage because of hers.
I have a friend who has given me ridiculously good relationship advice. There came a point when I understood that no matter how much or little I wanted to hear it, he was right AND was saying these things for my own well being. If your friend isn’t there yet, she isn’t there yet. Will she ever be? Is there value in being patient?
Anon
Honestly, you may benefit from spending less time with this friend and more time with friends that don’t require you to shut your brain off in order to interact with them.
anon
Agree. This sounds really draining. Alternatively, if you want this friend’s company, you can sympathize and let her feel heard without giving her advice that she has zero intention to take. I don’t think you need to become less judgmental, but you do need to pull way back on what you’re giving out. Anything snarky or negative is going to go over like a lead balloon.
SMC - San DIego
Given how often people on this board suggest dropping friends because of one aspect of the relationship, I am amazed that they have friends. I know those people. And they are great and I love them, but whether it is a boyfriend or spouse or parent or adult child, they want to complaint endlessly about their relationships without doing anything to fix it. I have a script:
“That sounds tough. What are you thinking you should do?”
“That sounds terrible. What is your gut telling you?”
“Ugh. I don’t know what to tell you. That sounds hard.”
“I feel really unqualified to advise you on this?”
Repeat, repeat, repeat.
Senior Attorney
This is so great. Somebody (you, probably, SMC) posted it here a while ago and it blew my mind because it’s the perfect response: “Wow, that’s awful! WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?”
Genius.
Anonymous
Or you could be like my friend who responds to that question with “I don’t know, I’m just venting right now” on repeat. Sigh.
Senior Attorney
Ugh. In that case I guess you have to move on to “I don’t know what to tell you.”
It’s hard and I totally know that because I’ve been that person in the bad relationship/marriage, way back when. And strangely, nobody ever told me to leave him. And strangely, if anybody had told me to leave him I feel like I might have done it way sooner.
So honestly, OP, if she’s really asking for advice, the advice is always going to be DTMFA. And if she’s just venting, then maybe the answer is “that’s crazy because you’ve been venting about it for years and nothing ever changes so let’s talk about something else.”
OP
I’ve used this line and the response is always, idk what do you think I should do/what would you do? My answer is usually, well I would’ve left him the first time he did it. When I was single I think she took to heart “omg a guy just did that to me too and I dumped him!” Maybe she thought I was impossibly picky, idk. I’ve told her many times the reason I was still single in my late 30s was because I gave terrible men the benefit of the doubt too many times, better to cut your losses and be single so your time and emotional energy are your own. You’ll never meet someone if your forever enmeshed with losers. I take it that “I would’ve left him” sounds a bit flippant when it comes from a married friend. I know when I was single I really didn’t appreciate my married friends acting like my relationship wasn’t important because I didn’t have a ring,
I don’t want to do that to someone else.
Anon
You sound like a really good friend. Married in my late 30s, so I hear you on all of that. My suggestion is to be less strident. While it’s literally true that you would probably have left the guy after the first time he did it, some people need to wait until the third or fourth time. It’s also completely counterproductive when someone asks, “What should I do now?” and the answer is “Do something differently two years ago.”
Try, “These things are deal breakers. I appreciate your willingness to be patient and give someone the benefit of the doubt, but this is the kind of thing people run away from the first time it happens. This is the fourth time it’s happened. You don’t have a future with this guy, and if the right guy is out there, he’s not going to make a move while you’re with someone else.”
Anon
That is such a straw man, just like people who think therapy or divorce is recommended too much. People who have problems big enough to ask a bunch of strangers for help need bigger solutions, we’re not seeing questions from people with minor problems.
/end rant about all the people who say this on any kind of internet message board
Senior Attorney
If I’m reading you right (not sure I am), I agree.
Now that I think about it, the first time anybody really (okay, metaphorically) looked me in the eye and told me I needed to leave my former husband was when I posted about it as an Anon, right here. And you know what? I paid attention to that.
Anonymous
SA, you have helped so many other readers over the years, I’m glad to hear that you’re have also been helped in return.
Senior Attorney
Are you kidding me? All. the. time.
Senior Attorney
You ladies are the smartest. <3
Anon
I posted here in 2018 about the way my family acted right after I got engaged. It was horrible and, because of years of conditioning, I believed it was at least partially my fault. Several women said that it was not healthy or normal, and I should seriously consider if I wanted those people in my life. That was some of the best advice I’ve gotten in my life.
Anon
I have a friend who is a total catch. Stunning, vivacious, high earner, fun as hell who is with a complete loser of a guy. If she was happy with him “being on disability” and hanging out at the bar with his friends all the time and also abusing opioids, then I’d find it easier to keep my mouth shut. But she’s desperately unhappy and asks for advice, and then stays with this guy. I can’t fix it, I can’t fix her or him, so my choice is just now much time I can spend listening to it.
(I’m not trying to be ableist – he did have a legit injury that had him off his feet for a few months, but he’s been cleared by multiple doctors to go back to the same work, not even modified work, and he just doesn’t want to. The disability money has run out years ago but “you make good money, babe”)
Hopeful
Does anyone else feel (and look) like they aged 5 years during this past year? I can hardly recognize myself in the mirror, I look so haggard. Some changes (hair loss, skin issues) I don’t expect to be able to reverse, but I’m hoping I can generally get my mojo back over the next few months. Can anyone relate? Any success stories/advice?
Anon
Get thee to the salon! As soon as personal services opened, I was in for a cut,color, Botox, lashes and brows. Also buy a few cute new things to wear out. Voila, I felt like myself again.
anonshmanon
I have gotten a bunch of grey hairs, for sure. OTOH, yesterday I put on minimal makeup for a very important zoom call when I usually don’t. Those extra two minutes really made a difference in how I liked my look.
Anon
As much as I don’t want to admit it, +1 to makeup, especially foundation. Like many others, I scaled way back on makeup during WFH, but tend to ramp back up for important meetings or job interviews. While I honestly don’t think it makes much of a difference on Zoom, a light application of foundation + lip color + blush makes me feel much more put together in real life.
I have also struggled with some hair loss due to a medication change. I think I just need to wait for some of it to grow back, but in the meantime am using Nioxin (check TJ Maxx), taking a daily biotin supplement, and using mousse when I style my hair. A blunt, above-the-shoulders cut would probably also help.
Anonymous
Hydration, diet, and sleep are the best ways to help your skin. Exercise can help too, especially with the general mojo issue.
Anonymous
I got dark circles under my eyes for the first time (late 30s) at the start of the pandemic when I was severely anxious and having trouble sleeping. Even though I’ve been sleeping well again and doing okay mentally for over a year now, I still think I look haggard in a way I didn’t before! Seems so weird that this would be permanent…
Anon
Yes, but my family has been through hell (unrelated to Covid). I’ve started Rogaine and Botox, and am trying to schedule with my dermatologist, but literally everyone in the practice is on maternity leave (WTF?).
No Face
I looked like an exhausted pile of garbage this winter, because that is how I felt. I’m doing much better now and I look much better. I really focused on self-care – billed 60% of my hours target several months, focused on eating better, exercising, reducing alcohol intake, reducing caffeine, privileged sleep and reconnecting with loved ones. I feel and look like myself. A heavier version of myself, but honestly who cares.
My mother lost a lot of hair during the course of the pandemic too. Probably stress! Rogaine has been very effective for her.
Anon
Everyone looks awful. I’m even noticing it as my favorite TV shows come back on; the actors have aged like crazy.
Anon
I work in public health and spent many weeks working 90+ hours, not sleeping much/well, eating whatever someone dropped off to the office (pizza), not exercising and very stressed out.
So, I’m 27 and have gained 20 lbs, have dark circles under my eyes, have more breakouts than I’ve had since high school, and more gray hairs than I used to. It’s not great and I can’t wait to get back to being myself.
Anon
I got my first gray hairs at 36!
Cool
Ha… You are lucky! Most of us started much earlier. 27 here.
Anonymous
Commiseration – Yes! Just turned 37. I went from basically no grey to a lot of grey hairs. Also, undereye circles. The Ordinary’s under eye serum helps temporarily. I’m also having breakouts and blackheads? Def stress related.
Anonymous
I’m 36 and just started getting not grey, because we seemed to have skipped that entirely, but white hairs in the past year. Ugh.
Nudibranch
Gray hair is white hair :-) It just appears grey because the still pigmented hair next to it reflects on to the white hair.
Mugnolia
Grooming (incl. makeup if you’re a make-up wearer), exercise, sleep, good diet, botox. That’s my formula.
Anonymous
Yes. I finally got my hair chopped off, Botox, did an IPL treatment, and I feel better, but man. It’s brutal out here.
KS IT Chick
I have been summoned for jury duty fo 2 weeks in early October. We moved in March, 2020, so it’s the first time for me in my new city. I was surprised to see that they have a dress code for jurors. Business casual, no jeans, no shorts. Has anyone experienced this before?
I live in jeans and t-shirts most days, but I have a closet full of dresses and blazers from my previous life. I’m trying on a couple things every day to see what fits so I don’t have a nasty surprise trying to get out the door one morning.
Anon
I’m curious about the city you are in, b/c I often saw my (otherwise a sophisticated city, even in our outlying “county” areas) show up for jury duty in their third best t-shirt with words. If anything, you are probably on a call-in system where you probably know the night before if you ever have to actually go in. But with Delta, our county courthouse just had to shut down for 2 weeks and is doing only essential services right now; not sure re the federal courthouse.
KS IT Chick
Lawrence, Kansas. The ultimate college town, as far as I can tell.
We are in groups and have to call each night of the two weeks to find out if we need to report the next day. Theoretically, it’s possible to get picked for a one day trial each of the ten days, but it would be highly unlikely.
Anon
I recently had jury duty and I don’t recall having a dress code. However, I work in city government (but don’t work in city hall, but am acquainted with many who do) so I wanted to look nice enough in case I ran into any work acquaintances.
I think I wore a t shirt dress and jean jacket – so more casual than I wear to work but nice enough looking abc not scandalous
anon
Our summons lists a dress code but no one follows it.
Anon
I also have jury duty soon. My instruction told us there is a dress code and we need to dress for a job interview or church. Those seem vastly different.
Anon
Yes, but if you are retired or don’t work, for many women, it’s the nicest thing they own that is not going to show a ton of skin. Dress = clubwear otherwise, for some.
Anonymous
Lol for Church I’d wear jeans or shorts or leggings and a t shirt
Anon
I know. But think of your older female relatives (or that episode of The Wire where they talk about “church crowns”). For them, this has a lot of meaning (ditto many people in small towns). It’s not aimed at what I call the Sinner’s Mass crowd.
Anon
I think the “or” just means that either are fine, not that they’re the same type of clothing.
Anon
They are different in a sartorial sense, not in a “looks appropriate for a citizen in a courtroom” thing. No one cares if you’re wearing a knee-length flowered dress with cap sleeves or a pantsuit; they care that you “look nice” so as to be respectful to the judicial system.
Anon
My husband had jury duty in NE this week, also with a dress code. He wore Dockers and a button shirt, no tie, but a ton of people wore jeans anyway and suffered no consequences. He said basically nobody except him followed any of the rules (i.e., he left his phone in the car, but everyone else was scrolling social media the whole time).
Anonymous
Yes, our juror notices say the same thing. It’s to keep the local guys from wearing shorts and flip flops to court.
Anonymous
I guess I am surprised that you are surprised. I once had a witness barred from the courtroom because she was wearing culottes the bailiff did not understand and deemed “shorts”. Courtrooms are formal places in which formal business occurs. I don’t take myself very seriously as a person because I am a lawyer (ugh to those who do), but I do take the business of a courtroom seriously, especially jury service. If you were a litigant or a criminal defendant, how would you feel if you looked at the box of people making serious decisions about your life and saw they looked like they’d just rolled out of bed and threw on jeans, a crappy t-shirt, and flip flops?
Respectfully disagree
I am often accused of overdressing but I think this POV is maybe…oudated, classist, something…
If someone shows up for a “job” for $20/day (or whatever the going rate is for jury duty, I can’t remember) I’m not judging them for dressing casually. They aren’t the defendant or the attorney. Just let them carry out their civic duty in peace.
Senior Attorney
Agree. We are not living in that world any more.
Anon
Agree with this. I work in a manufacturing lab, “wear work clothes” would not go over well if I were to follow that to the letter.
anon
Absolutely classist. A prosecutor colleague tells witnesses to wear “nice” clothes – i don’t think he understands that for many people we deal with, their Crooks and Castles hoodie IS their nicest top.
KS IT Chick
In my previous town, they didn’t say anything about a dress code. I served twice and was selected as foreperson both times. I always have worn slacks and a blazer since I always anticipated going to work if I didn’t get selected, but most people showed up in jeans, usually clean. One student came in to the morning session in shorts and flip flops, and the judge requested he put on long pants and shoes that “didn’t make noise” when we returned for the afternoon.
Not exactly surprised, I guess. I was just a little confused since the purpose is to get as much participation as possible.
Anon
I agree with you. At least in criminal trials, jurors quite literally have the defendant’s life in their hands – will he/she walk free, go to jail, owe a small fine, or a humongous fine, or spend years in prison? It’s a serious and important obligation, and it would be nice if the jurors presented themselves as if they took it seriously. I’m not saying some guy in jeans can’t be serious. I’m saying how you choose to present yourself in a particular situation may well translate to how seriously you are willing to be about it.
Anonymous
Who cares what the parties think of the jurors? The jurors are showing up and agreeing to faithfully and thoughtfully consider the case. I recently filled out my juror summons. If I am called to jury duty, I will probably show up in jeans and a t-shirt. They should be happy that I am focused on their case rather than unhappy that it is taking away time from my job.
Anon
Yeah, I am not as concerned with what a plaintiff or defendant or their legal representatives think of my attire as I am with being a good citizen and listening to the facts of the case so I can make a reasoned decision in the jury room. I can listen just as well in jeans and a t-shirt as I can if I were dressed in the formal business attire that I sometimes have to wear for my corporate job.
Anon
I find this very interesting, because they don’t have a dress code for jury duty in DC. I have jury duty every 2-3 years, and it seems like everyone wears jeans. If you wear a nice top (like a jeans Friday work outfit), you stand out as well dressed. That was true for the last jury I was on too.
anonymous
If I had to dress business casual, I would opt for something comfortable since I would probably be sitting all day. Ponte kint pants, knit shirt, and cardigan because I get cold easily.
Of Counsel
Business casual is recommended but the only person I have ever seen excused is something who showed up with a shirt that said “f* around and find out” (with the f* spelled out). The judge ordered him to go home and come back the next day with a different shirt.
The problem with enforcing dress codes is (1) it is a way for people who do not want to serve to get out of it and (2) it tends to exclude people who do not own “appropriate” clothing, which can be a problem when you need a representative jury. My last jury ran the gamut from the accountant in a collared shirt and coat and the college student in cargo shorts and a t-shirt (although the former dropped the coat after the first day and the latter was dressing up a bit more within a few days – by the end they had all found the same level of attire, which I found fascinating).
Senior Attorney
Exactly. Good Lord here in Los Angeles County we have such a hard time getting people to show up for jury duty that we’re just happy if they are not barefoot and if they’re wearing any garment at all on their upper bodies!
Anonymous
My new bike helmet has MIPS technology, which I wanted, but it seems to be causing a lot of hair breakage, especially near my crown. Do I need to buy a new helmet to avoid this or would a headband help? I usually don’t like to wear anything under a helmet but I don’t want to tear out this much hair every time I ride.
Anon
Maybe a Buff? I have 5000 I could send you, bought back before masks were easy to come by.
Cat
Bandana?
Anon
Just this week, I told a very good friend (who needs to dump the jerk) that I am only concerned with her health and happiness. I try to keep my mouth shut as she tolerates emotional abuse and models a very unhealthy relationship for her kids. She knows how I feel and I know her flaws that keep her tolerating what she should not. I wish I could change the oucycling skullcap from Headsweats: https://www.headsweats.com/collections/cycling-caps/products/cycling-skullcap-black
Other colors/patterns available.
Anon
Urgh. Two messages mixed together. Try the Headsweats cycling skullcap at the link shown above.
Senior Attorney
I kind of love that message as posted.
Cornellian
ME TOO
Ekaterin Nile
I’m crying.
Anon
I’m laughing pretty hard at this. Sorry for your friend but I agree, the helmet skullcap is the answer to her problems.
Anon
Helmet liners are totally a thing, though their target audience is balding men who don’t want sunburns. Check with your local bike shop or online.
Anonymous
This sounds like what I need – thank you! Thanks to the others as well. I’ll keep an eye out for a good skullcap.
Anon
The Headsweats ones are awesome.
Anon
I’ve had this same thing happen. I simply wear a cheap headband from Target to cover that part of my hair. I think I’d get really hot with something larger.
Anonymous
This is very middle school drama, but I’m so annoyed at a friend for ‘copying’ me.(maybe it’s high school drama not middle school?) Different circumstances but similar to if you both attended an art class that had an end of year show and you’d planned to paint a portrait of Madonna, and a week after you tell your friend they announce they are painting a portrait of Madonna but in a ‘special’ way. I know it’s petty to be annoyed but I am! They told me over text, if they’d said it in person I’d have made a joke about it but I’m too polite to make a drama over something so silly. Yet I’m still annoyed! So venting to the internet instead.
Anonymous
I get it. It’s frustrating to be upset about something where you know you can’t really do that much about it. I’m annoyed that I bought my nephew a gift for this birthday and didn’t get a thank-you from his parents (I had to ask whether the package even arrived and they said “yes it did!” – that’s it). Technically you’re supposed to give gifts without expectation of thank-yous, but it doesn’t make it less annoying. Same thing in your situation – people say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery blah blah blah but that friend sounds annoying AF.
Anon
How old is your nephew? Since our kids could scribble, we have had them at least trying to write a thank you note (like we may “translate” at the bottom of the page “Marisol loves the stuffed turtle”), but we make a point in our family of starting habits young. I’m going to go take to my fainting couch now.
Anonymous
He’s a baby and definitely not old enough to contribute to the thank-you, but I would be happy with a 3-second text from his parents saying “he loves it, thanks so much!!” I just don’t like hearing crickets and having to confirm if they even got the package.
Anon
I think you need to give parents of a baby a break. Is it the right thing to send a thank you? Yes. Do people f%^k it up? Also yes. No one is perfect.
There was a time in my kids’ life where I would rather not have received gifts for them rather than dealing with the “I didn’t get a thank you note” (even though I’d sent a text) “little Ornote should be helping write these” (Ornote is 18 months old) “I want to see multiple pictures of Ornote wearing it/playing with it!”
It’s never enough. I would literally rather have gone to Target and bought the thing for my own kid.
Anonymous
All I’m asking for is ONE text, literally any acknowledgment that the gift arrived and wasn’t stolen from the porch. It’s not too much to ask.
Cool
I hear you. I have also had gifts get lost / never arrive, or had my relative not bother to check his mail for weeks (COVID) and miss my birthday gift. So I appreciate an acknowledgement. But they rarely come.
My niece is 15 and has never once acknowledged a gift I have sent. That’s so like my bro to have never taught her that would be nice to do.
Cat
ok that is super rude of the parents – I started helping with thank-yous as a preschooler! (parents would write the note, I would color a picture of the gift)
Anon
I get it. I buy my brother things he asks for, ship it to him… crickets. He is 24 and still in college. (I am 32 and send him “did you get it” texts. Arghhhh)
Anonymous
I feel you on this. My hobby involves performance and if someone was like ohhh you’re doing a Sia medley? Me too! I’d re-choreograph.
Anonymous
Oh man I feel this so hard. I for some reason tend to attract insecure people who copy me and I know I’m supposed to be flattered but I can’t help but want to encourage people to find their own interests because that’s how you grow as a person and find yourself. Copying people doesn’t serve anyone.
Anon
I’ve known some really great people who do this. I’m not always even sure that they realize that they do this? It would be nice if they would acknowledge the connection at least! It’s reasonable to be annoyed. Having so much influence over someone’s choices can be uncomfortable, but at least it’s usually not a negative outcome (especially when they actually do the thing, and I end up not getting around to it).
Senior Attorney
Don’t know where I heard this story, but there was a couple who were super annoyed because the husband’s brother and his wife were always copying everything they did. Couple A bought a certain car, Couple B bought the same model. Couple A went to Italy on vacation, Couple B did, too. In fact, sometimes Couple B rushed right out and bought or did the thing as soon as Couple A started talking about it, so it looked like Couple A were the copycats.
So… Couple A decided to get their revenge. So they started talking about how they were going to get this fancy, expensive grandfather clock for their house. Every time they saw Couple B they went on and on about how they were researching grandfather clocks, and how the were really interested in this one certain model that was huge and hideous but, said Couple A, very rare and valuable. And sure enough, after a few weeks of this, they went over to Couple B’s house and there in the front hall was the huge, hideous, and ridiculously expensive grandfather clock. And when they got home that night, Couple A laughed and laughed. The end.
Senior Attorney
And now I’m feeling insecure because I saw some amazing chairs at a friend’s house and bought a pair of the same ones for my family room. I even got the name of the store from my friend…
Anone
Petty but fantastic.
Anon
Or you could be like my sister and “accidentally” get pregnant again every time one of her siblings announced a pregnancy because you’re worried you’re no longer going to be the center of attention. Yes, she does have six kids, why do you ask?
amberwitch
Six kids? I think that is its own punishment in itself
ShoppingQ
Tuckernuck question: any suggestions of where to buy a Blythe dress (any color other than white?). I am looking for a XS and their website has pulled the dress for reasons unknown… Poshmark only has one and in a print.
Anonymous
No suggestions as to where to buy it but I just wanted to thank you for your post. I hadn’t seen the dress before and when I googled it was great inspiration for a sewing project.
Anonymous
Ebay or stalk Thred Up (you can set an alert for Tuckernuck)
Walnut
First house: Saw probably 20ish over a period of three to four months? We didn’t really know what we wanted.
Second house: Very specific neighborhood criteria, so we saw maybe 10 houses over a two or three year period. Offered on two of them.
Third house: 20 in a weekend. We had one shot to buy a house and we were open to buying just about anything. The strategy was “which house can we get an accepted offer on?”
Fourth house: Two houses. The first accepted a different offer before we could submit ours and the second we were aggressive on. Very few houses on the market met our precise criteria.
Curious
This is also an excellent nesting fail :). I was so intrigued to see how houses led to Tuckernuck dresses…
House shopping
For those of you who own a home, how many houses did you see first? We have been house shopping for over a year and have seen so many houses that I’m starting to feel self-conscious like our realtor doesn’t want to show us any more. (He hasn’t said anything remotely to make me think that, it’s just in my head at this point.)
Anonymous
I mean, at this point it’s clear to him that you are wasting his time. You do not actually intend to buy a house in reality because clearly what you want is not available in the location you want at a price you want. Why wouldn’t he be annoyed? A year is ridiculous. Do some self reflection.
Anon
I don’t think you know anything about the current housing market. Or you’re just being nasty to be nasty.
Anon
Go touch grass.
Anonymous
Agreed. I do not think you know anything about the current housing market. I too have been looking for over a year. My real estate agent has many clients like me, as does my lender, and they tell me this all the time. It is really tough out there. I am frustrated too but I have no plans to make a bad decision out of frustration
Anon
Not that many. You are taking a lot of this guy’s free time that he’s not getting paid for. Maybe it’s time to either spend your time doing a drive-by to see if it is worth venturing in or figuring out if your criteria are out of whack for the market.
House shopping
We only look after we have done a drive by and we’ve also made offers and not gotten the house. So it’s a combination of factors.
I guess what I’m asking is what you consider “not that many,”
Anon
The first time we bought a house we saw around houses. The second time we were fortunate to see a perfect house almost immediately.
Anonymous
15 was the number I intended to include here
Anon
We looked casually for over a year and didn’t get a realtor involved until later in the process, but this was in the late aughts when you could freely attend open houses. Obviously that’s no longer feasible.
I do agree about doing drive-bys. I still cringe thinking about how we brought my uncle along to look at a huge lot that turned out to be at the bottom of a steep hill and partially flooded. Driving past the property would have shown us WHY five acres were so freaking cheap.
Anon
Why can’t you attend open houses without a realtor now?
OP
At least in our target neighborhood, open houses are nearly unheard of because things sell the first 1-2 days they are listed.
No Face
In my area, a house that is well priced could sell before there is a open house.
Anon
My area isn’t doing open houses. Everything is by appointment only.
Cat
Can you narrow down your must-haves at this point? Or are you just honestly not in that much of a rush to buy so you can be picky? (I might start doing drive bys or open houses by myself so as not to waste the realtor’s time unless you are serious…)
OP
We always do drive bys and when open houses are available we do that instead (they are rare in this market thou.) It’s not like we are looking at a house every weekend, but he has shown us probably 10-11 houses over the last year. The last one we looked at we tried to buy and made a very aggressive offer but still didn’t get it. The last time we bought a home the market was just so different and everything was easier – so I’m very self-conscious about the fact that he is not being paid for any of this.
No Face
I think if you’ve made a real offer already, he knows you aren’t just wasting his time.
Anon
Well, someone had to make a higher offer to get the house (and the OP called their offer very aggressive). So maybe the OPs budget is just not enough for what they want.
OP
Yeah, we offered 30% over the list price and still didn’t get it. Sigh.
OP
We offered 30% over list price with no contingencies, which is why I said I consider it aggressive. You’re right though that someone obviously offered more thou.
Anon
Or maybe it’s just a crazy market. When I bought my house pre-Covid, sometimes at appointments (with my Realtor, not open houses) there’d be 30+ other people there in our random hour time slot. It was very difficult to buy a house and I was offering probably well above what they would appraise for. My budget was plenty high and I eventually succeeded.
Anon
List price doesn’t mean anything if the house is underpriced
OP
The list price isn’t meaningless in our area. Most things are going over list but not by that much. We also offered significantly more than what our realtor suggested – point being that we aren’t going around low-balling or something.
Vicky Austin
That doesn’t sound like you’re wasting his time to me.
Anonymous
It doesn’t sound like this is too much. Buyers’ agents have to work harder in sellers’ markets. You’ve made a real offer. You aren’t changing your criteria constantly. And pulling back from the process now would mean you had, indeed, wasted his time.
Anon
One (bought the first one I saw even though it was unlivable at the time) and, for the second house), four (went under contract on one and walked after inspection, then went under contract on the next one I saw).
Anonymous
4 houses. We put offers in on three of them.
Are all of these houses rather similar in one or two big ways? Or just really different from each other? If they’re all different, then I’d step back from going to look at them and develop a list of must haves. A reasonable list. Not “7 bedrooms new build, top of the line everything in buckhead neighborhood of Atlanta for $259,000 or less.” But if they are all different that tells me you don’t really know what you want or your looking for one very specific thing that just likely does not exist.
Our situation – We were looking at a very specific neighborhood and any house that had three ir more bedrooms, was decent enough and within our budget (which was on the lower end for our desired neighborhood) was going to work. I actually didn’t even see the house we bought in person (husband did) until we were under contract (things move quickly here).
Anonymous
Less than 10. We had a specific list of requirements, and there were several we skipped based on the listing photos or our knowledge of the area. We looked for 2-3 months. Even so, by the end the realtor was pushing that we expand our scope for agreeable properties.
Patricia Gardiner
30 for the first in a combination of maybe 20 with realtor and 10 through open houses (but we made 2 offers prior to getting our house, so it was clear we were serious buyers), and only 2 for the one we’re closing on next month :). But, we looked at probably 30+ online for the second house prior to going on the 2 in-person visits.
pugsnbourbon
I think we saw ~10, put an offer on two (with one of those offers being successful). But it’s a totally different market than it was in 2013. I think you might have to, in my father’s words, sh!t or get off the pot.
Anon
If you’ve been making offers he knows you’re a serious buyer. It’s just a tough time to buy a house.
AnonB
We looked at probably 10-12 and put in offers on 4 (including the one we ended up purchasing).
Anon
I’m surprised at the people who looked at 10 or less before purchasing. Heck, I went on a house tour with a friend who is looking last weekend and we saw 5 with her agent in our afternoon.
I probably saw 40 or more houses before the one I purchased, but a number of those were at open houses and I did lose on one prior offer. Given my market and price range, I was going to have to make a number of trade offs and it took time and seeing the market to determine what trade offs I was comfortable with.
Emma
Maybe 10-15? It was a three months process, our realtor knew we were serious. We made one offer that was accepted. Don’t be my parents, who are looking for a unicorn of a house in their area and budget and have basically alienated all local realtors by seeing everything there is and then making a few unrealistic offers over several years (sure, they’re not in a rush, but at some point you’re wasting other people’s time and they know it).
anon
I saw about a dozen within the span of two months, and made four offers. I wasn’t picky at all and knew realistically what I was/wasn’t going to get at my price point in this crazy market. You say you’ve been in it for a year but have only seen 10 or so houses, that’s like 1 per month? That doesn’t sound bad as far as time commitment for the realtor, but at the same time it sounds like you’re being very specific about what you want if you’ve only seen 10 spread across a whole year.
OP
Yes, we are looking in a very specific neighborhood so options are pretty limited. We are willing to make a lot of trade offs within that area and have raised our price point significantly. Sigh.
anon
In that case, as long a you’re upfront about the neighborhood requirement with your realtor then I don’t know why he would be upset. You’re not dragging him all over town weekend after weekend.
Anon
About 4, both times I bought. Both times I bought I started with a realtor but found the house through word of mouth.
Anonymous
Over a period of 6 months we saw probably 20 houses and put in offers on 10? I definitely felt like we were wasting the Realtors time but we finally won a house and my guilt subsided.
RR
I’ve bought two houses–one in 2003, and one in 2018. For both of them, we were living in a slightly different area at the time. We came up with a list of houses we wanted to see, saw them all in one day. Roughly 6 each day. The first time, we saw a FSBO across the street from one that we made a separate trip to see and bought. The second time we bought one that we saw on the one day.
The first time was in a real buyer’s market. The second was in more of a seller’s market, and we were living 2 hours away and needed to pick one and move forward.
Anonymous
I think it’s pretty common to look at a LOT of houses if you’re a first time homebuyer. It’s a big decision! I looked at houses for like 2 years with 3 different realtors before I bought my first house. I couldn’t tell you how many I looked at. And it wasn’t during a terrible market.
And btw thank you for reminding me of this because karma is definitely biting me now. My husband and I are looking for a house – his first – and he’s SO PICKY! He’s the most laid back guy so this is very much a role reversal for us.
Nesprin
2 yrs ago, we looked at essentially every house on the market for 6 mos, and put in 4 offers- we did most of the open houses on our own. I feel like our realtor was still fine with all of that (and she made 30k off us- I feel like that was basically fair).
Anonymous
The housing market is challenging right now, and certain areas are more challenging. To the point above, you could ask your agent if he has other clients like you, who have been looking for a long time. Many of the posters replied based on experiences in years past, and it is a whole other ballgame out there right now. Has your agent been able to show you pocket listings? How frequently do houses in your area sell before sent to the MLS? Offhand, I know many people in my current area who have been looking for a long time (1.5 years) and who feel every bit the way you would expect someone who has been trying to move for 1.5 years would feel.
Anon
5 or 6. I was living across the country and made one house-hunting trip. On Saturday I saw four or five houses. None of them were our dream house but we were probably going to make an offer on one because we needed a place to live. Then my realtor heard that a house was hitting the market soon and she thought it would be great for us. It was in our preferred school district and neighborhood and was very hot for that reason. We were one of I think six families who saw it on Sunday morning before it officially hit the market, and we had made an (all cash, above asking) offer within an hour. The realtor handled the negotiations as I was driving to the airport, occasionally looping me in via speaker phone and when I arrived at O’Hare I was told we had the house. Needless to say, we really liked our realtor.
Audreycat
I looked at several dozen before buying my first, but this was during the financial crisis when inventory was high, price was low, and I was looking for something specific and rare that I could fix up. I think my experience with that first buy was unusual, but I was upfront with my realtor about my needs. For my second house four years ago, I probably looked at 10-15. I used the same realtor for both transactions and she’s made A LOT of money off me in our now-HCOL city. There’s no shame in being picky, realtors work for commissions and they know the score. Your realtor can fire you if they don’t want to work with you and if he’s clever he runs a cost-benefit analysis on every client that will shift as time goes by. Some people won’t end up buying for a variety of reasons, and they know that.
Hallux Limitus Help
I have recently been diagnosed with Hallux Limitus in my right toe. I’m struggling to find comfortable and attractive work shoes and would really appreciate any ideas or brands/styles that others have found to work. Thank you very much in advance.
The Lone Ranger
barkingdogshoes.com is a great blog for shoes for all sorts of foot issues. https://www.barkingdogshoes.com/?s=hallux She covers Rigidus more than Limitus, but something might strike a cord.
OP
Thanks!
Anon
Any tips for helping cluttery people part with their “treasures?”
I’m visiting my mom for a week. (She lives far away and often travels to see me so I don’t have to use vacation days.) She’s a Boomer and has all these outdated ideas about what’s valuable and collectible – mostly boxes and boxes and boxes of 1940’s and 50’s vintage glassware. No, none of it’s rare – it’s all the popular patterns that everybody’s grandmother got when she got married in 1945, so therefore everyone who wants said glassware has already inherited it. Mom has so much of this stuff that you can’t walk around parts of her house because, “Oh, well, I was going to try to sell that,” but when nobody pays the price she thinks it’s worth, she just thinks the “right buyer hasn’t seen it yet,” and so it sits for YEARS collecting dust in the hallway, and the guest room, and the office.
She also gathers magazines and catalogs and saves them “for when I have time to go through them.” (Mind you, she’s retired with no social life to speak of, so she’s not short on time.) These catalogs and magazines are often 6-18 months old, and I’ve told her that the items are discontinued by now (“but they might be on clearance now and I could get a good deal!”) or the magazines are out of season (“but there might be good ideas in there!”). Stacks of those in every room. If I can get her to part with them, she’ll do so by reviewing each one and tearing out the interesting pages, so that we’re left with a stack of loose pages…that then sit around for another year or so til I visit again and repeat the whole process.
Actionable tips for the week I’m here much appreciated ??♀️
Anonymous
What you are describing is hoarding, not a boomer who can’t part with treasures. My mom has a storage room with china she’s inherited and she can’t part with it. No one younger than me probably will ever want it. Holding on to paper or things that are truly worthless, and having these items overrun your actual living space is hoarding.
anonymous
Agreed. You can help her clean out stuff, but if she has hoarding tendencies the space will just fill back up again. I think hoarding is a psychological issue so I’m not sure how you can help her without her wanting to get help herself.
Anonymous
+1. My MIL was like this and despite her children’s frequent attempts to help her declutter, we were left with a giant mess in the end. Instead of trying to get her to part with things, you may want to use your time to document and locate the important and valuable things that you want to keep so when the time comes you can just pull those out and leave the rest to a junk removal or estate sale company.
Anon
Yep, this is hoarding. OP, I recommend reading Stuff: Compulsive Hoarding and the Meaning of Things by Randy Frost or Buried in Treasures by David Tolin to understand your mom’s behavior and how you can deal with it. She needs therapy, cleaning out the house (with or without her permission) won’t help her. Anything you get rid of will be replaced, usually by 2x the previous volume of whatever was thrown out. It’s a psychological disorder that can be linked back to ADHD, obsessive-compulsive disorder, trauma, or other things. Not something you can fix on your own by talking to your mom. My MIL has a hoarding problem and the more we’ve learned about the disorder, the easier it has become to deal with the behavior.
Anonymous
Agreed. Please don’t ascribe this to “outdated Boomer ideas.” That feels quite condescending to me, and i’m not even a Boomer!
Your mother has some incredibly strong attachment to things, and may even be nearing actual hoarder stage. You can’t solve this with “tips.” Something is going on her thinking and heart that created this strong connection, and you as a daughter probably can’t budge that. She would have to want to make those changes, and if she’s been attached to things all her life, letting go is very, very hard.
Anonymous
I would find the episodes of the Marie Kondo show on Netflix that feature older clutterbugs and watch them with her.
Anonymous
Don’t bother? Like. What’s the point? She doesn’t want to. When she passes you’ll call a junk removal company.
anon
+1 enjoy the time you have with your mom. Trying to get her to change if she doesn’t want to will be frustrating for both of you and is unlikely to improve the situation. Make sure to take anything of yours you want to keep because if things deteriorate, your sentimental stuff might not be in good enough condition to want in the future.
I’ve been there, it sucks, but it sucks less if you don’t let it interfere with your relationship.
Anon
Agreed.
Anonymous
Agreed. It’s her stuff. My Depression era relatives kept a lot of stuff, and when they passed we had a massive clean out and donation effort. It was far less painful for us to do it than it would have been for those relatives.
Anon
I feel this. My mother died after a quick illness, with her house under contract. The buyer wanted to move forward, so that’s what happened and I had three weeks to clean it out, while grieving. Do not recommend.
NYNY
I’m so sorry you had to go through that. It must have been awful.
Anon
Sounds like the root of this is a failure to distinguish between what “might” be useful and what WILL be useful, as well as completely forgetting what “normal” looks like.
Just purge anything that lacks intrinsic value (not the glasses). Magazines that are more than 3 months old are getting thrown away. Do not get sucked down the rabbit hole of tearing pages out of them. Looking through the magazines and tearing pages out is another way of holding onto something because she “might” use it. Might = never. Tell her that, gently, and throw the entire thing in the trash. Tell her that she’s not saving things that are useful someday; she’s drowning in crap and failing to appreciate what she has now.
Is there so much that it would be worthwhile to get a Dumpster, and if she tries the “I might do this someday” routine, say, “But the Dumpster is only here this week” and toss it?
Is there a particular reason she wants to sell the glassware at a high price, other than to avoid parting with it? Would it work to post it on the free FB Marketplace pages and explain to her how nice it will be for a young, broke couple just starting out to have this great glassware that they otherwise couldn’t afford?
Of Counsel
Please do not do this. It is not your house and it is not your stuff and you absolutely do not have the right to get throw our your mother’s things, no matter how useless you think they are.
Imagine how this board would react if someone said “My mom came to my house and threw out a bunch of my stuff because she thought is was junk.” Your mother does not lose her rights or her autonomy because she is over 70.
Unless your mother’s house is a fire hazard or she is living in filth with rotting food, leave it alone. You expressed your opinion. She disagrees. And she has that right.
Anon
It also won’t work to keep the house clean. As others have pointed out above, this is hoarding behavior. When hoarders have their things forcibly removed from them, especially without their knowledge, it sends them into an anxiety spiral that leads to more hoarding. Therapists and cleanout specialists who work with hoarders usually refuse to do a cleanout unless the hoarder is present and agrees to it. If the OP wants to leave and then come back to a greatly exacerbated problem, and damage her relationship with her mother in the process, the quickest path to that is to throw out her mother’s things without her mother’s permission.
Anonymous
Hear hear. This is an awful take.
I went through this with my own mother. It took us two years to move her and she still took too much with her. She needed and asked for my help. It was a burden to do it her way, but she was not up for tossing a lifetime (really generations) of things without reviewing them. I used that as an opportunity to be the heavy, recommending tossing stuff pretty ruthlessly. I made constructive suggestions (e.g., “let’s toss any travel magazines more than 2 years old but we’ll make an electronic list of places you want to research later” & “I will make a basic tool kit out of all this and put everything else in a pile I recommend you toss since you’ll have on-site maintenance at your new place”). But no way was I just discarding things while she protested. What a horrible way to treat a competent human being.
Anon
I said “lacks intrinsic value” and then referred to the magazines. Old magazines are indeed a fire hazard and should be discarded; they can be found online. You own your misreading of my post, not me.
Anonymous
No one misread you. You suggested throwing things away without permission. That is what we are responding to. You disagree and I know you are wrong.
Anonymous
Eh I disagree that stacks of magazines are necessarily a fire hazard. I have lots of paper files in my office because I’m a lawyer and paper comes with the territory. I have tons of books at home because I like books. Some of them are probably even on the floor (gasp!). I don’t think anyone would walk into my office or home and think that all this paper is a fire hazard. If OP has safety concerns then she should focus on organizing the paper and maybe sticking it in boxes, not getting rid of it.
Senior Attorney
Agree with the pile-on. Old magazines are no more a fire hazard than old books, which is to say no more than anything else a person would have in their house. OP, do not discard your mother’s belongings without her permission.
Of Counsel
You might think those things lack intrinsic value but that does not change the fact that they do not belong to OP. They belong to her mother. And her mother has the right to keep magazines if she wants to. Magazines are no more a fire hazard than books unless they are blocking exits.
The point here is that nothing OP says implies that her mother is not competent. If she is not, that is an entirely different issue and needs to be addressed. Nothing she said implied that her mother has asked for her help sorting through things, which would also be a different matter. Otherwise, a daughter has no more right to go through her mother’s things and throw them away than a mother has the right to do the same to her adult child.
Anon
Adding to the pile-on because I have personal experience with this. My former MIL and FIL were hoarders and kept lots of things that I did not see as valuable (old magazines and newspapers, expired food, etc.). My former brother in law, who had also married into the family, decided that he was going to embark on “helping” them clean out their house once, after they asked for his help and seemed open to it. He used this tactic to throw away some stuff, including some old food storage containers (it was something any person without a hoarding disorder would have thrown away– not vintage Tupperware or anything, more like the plastic takeout containers). Former MIL was upset about this experience for over a decade and the space that was cleared out was filled up, plus some, in a matter of months. She remembered many of the items that were thrown away, including things that others would have viewed as trash, and it hurt her that they were gone when she didn’t really make the full choice to get rid of them. It was very damaging to their relationship and made the problem even worse.
Lesson learned the hard way that if someone has a true hoarding disorder, as it sounds like the OP’s mother does, it’s imperative to get professional help and only when the person with the disorder is ready for that.
Anonymous
I would focus on safety. Accept that she is going to keep a lot of items you consider junk. Focus instead on a defining and sticking to a safe spatial limit.
Maybe the guest room is the storage room and she uses large plastic totes to store her limits. Use a sharpie directly on the tote or masking tape to label the contents. Don’t detail every item – put a general description. (dishes/magazines/glasses). No storing items in the hallway/bedroom etc etc.
Possible script: I understand that you want to keep these items but if they are valuable to you then they will be better protected if stored properly. Also, your house needs to be safe to live in. That means clear passage through the hallway and into/out of the office etc. You need to store items in a safe way.
Flats Only
I wonder if you can get firemen to visit for this type of thing. I know they’ll come around to check smoke detectors if you ask, and I wonder if you could get one into the house under that (or another pretext), and then he/she could make a point about all the paper being a fire hazard. Sometimes it’s easier to ignore messages from family than from “expert” strangers (and especially handsome firemen who seem concerned).
Anon
This is hoarding. Marie Kondo is going to fix it. You need to enter with a completely different attitude than you would trying to help somebody just declutter.
Anon
*not going to fix if, I mean. There are lovely ideas here from people who have never dealt with hoarders.
IL
Does she want help cleaning out her house? And specifically, does she want your help cleaning out her house? If not, then I don’t think you will have much success with this. Your mom is an adult, and not that old if she’s a Boomer. While it may be annoying that she thinks her possessions are worth more than they are, that doesn’t entitle you to treat her like she’s a child, insult her, or sell or throw away her belongings without permission.
And I say this as someone whose mother has dozens of dusty cookie jars and salt-and-pepper-shaker sets decorating her kitchen. It’s not my aesthetic, but it’s also not my call.
No Face
Your mom can have too much stuff if she wants to. If it becomes dangerous for her, contact the elder care resources in the county where she lives for assistance.
Anon
Don’t do this. I did it, they came in, got him declared incompetent, and wrestled control of the estate away from us and sucked it dry. Local government is a corrupt money-grubbing nightmare.
Anon
As a local government official, no it is absolutely not. Sorry you had a bad experience, but you’re wrong and you’re rude.
Anon
+1
Anon
I’m always looking for nostalgic 40s glassware that other people inherited but which my family just got rid of.
I would look for a service that puts this stuff up for sale on Etsy or eBay and handles all the shipping and packing for a cut. If she’s like me, she cares more that they go to a good home than than she make any money off of them.
Would she be interested in reading her magazines in a digital format? Kindle, overdrive, or similar?
Anon
Sorry, read again and saw that she turns down offers.
Sounds like she doesn’t really want to rehome this stuff. I think it can be hurtful though to look back on our lives and feel that things are being devalued. I wonder if the psychology is more “I will come up with any excuse to keep this” or “I believe these things that were part of my life have an unrecognized value”?
HFB
For anyone who is looking to buy or sell old china, glasses, crystal and such I recommend checking out www(dot)replacements(dot) com/sell-to-us I have never sold anything, only purchased, but I think it’s a reputable company.
Anonymous
Replacements is definitely legit/reputable.
Anon
I love old China and didn’t inherit any. I definitely buy some when I find stuff I like, but it’s not very expensive. I’ve never paid for than $5-10 for anything.
Anonymous
This does sound like hoarding behaviour. She doesn’t have to have a home like the TV shows to «be a hoarder».
That’s very tricky to address, and you need different strategies than just normal decluttering.
People with hoarding styles are known to be intelligent, creative, and able to see possibilities and solutions to stuff other people might consider trash. They can ve perfectionist, paralyzed in inactivity because they can’t do the perfect thing.
They pride themselves in seeing value in items others don’t. They have trouble making a decision (so final! Options closed!) and can have some executive problems.
It may be wirth it to you to read up a bit on strategies for hoarding. Not to confront or accuse her, but to see if you can get some tips that resonate with you.
I haven’t read up a while, but have previously found great books for kindle with both personal accounts and more scientofic books.
Anon
I’d focus on the safety aspect. It’s not wrong to have a lot of stuff, even if the stuff isn’t valuable. The problem is that you can’t get around in certain rooms. That is a fire hazard and a fall hazard.
Also, would you be open to helping her find other hobbies or things to do with her time? You mentioned that she has no social life so she may be using these things to fill that void in her life.
anonchicago
Career advice please?
I posted here before about my stressful consulting job. I then started a new job during the pandemic. The company is in a lot of turmoil, my team has had a lot of turnover, and as a result the first few months were chaotic and I basically hated it a month in.
Now, things are starting to *feel* better, even if I’m not confident in the company’s leadership. I’m no longer crying at my desk or screaming at the computer on a regular basis, but I do feel frustrated at how stuck I am in the organization and how it’s generally siloed and not collaborative.
A company I interviewed with previously came back to me about a month ago asking if I wanted to interview for another role, and I jumped on it. I think I’m now close to an offer and feel conflicted about leaving so soon.
Current job: interesting industry but company is not keeping pace with trends. Bonus target and stock grants are attractive, but right now it doesn’t look like I’ll get either of those given company performance. Looks good on a resume, but likely need to leave company for growth and I’d move on in a year or two. Constant turnover within the company and my team, people either stay 1-2 years or 20 years. Some red flags in interview process re turnover and I regret not paying attention to them.
Potential new job: older industry, but company is doing really interesting things. Growing fast with opportunities, but I’d probably be higher paid than most which limits some internal mobility. Everyone has been nice and speaks to collaborative culture and building careers.
What would you do?
Anon
Leave. You can never leave crazy, toxic jobs early enough.
Anon
GTFO
No Face
Go go go go go go go. You should never be crying at your desk or screaming on a regular basis at a job. Just leave that job.
Anon
Even with the backstory about toxicity of current job, based on the list of pros/cons I’d say new job, no question! And with the backstory it seems totally obvious. Good luck.
Anon
See recent post about me losing my hair and smart women who chimed in….
Good luck in a new role!
Cb
Finding things vibes? I have to go pack up my office next week and I CANNOT find my office keys. Last in in March 2020, we moved in December 2020. And facilities will definitely be mean to me if they need to come down and unlock it. My last day isn’t until the end of September but they’ve already booted me out.
Anon
Look in any bags you might have carried, pockets of coats/jackets you might have worn. Sending you positive energy.
Anonymous
This. Check the pockets of your fall and winter coats/blazers etc.
Cornellian
+1. Also floor of your closet, shoe rack/wherever you set your purse down.
Cb
I seem to remember taking them off my keyring at home to “keep them safe”, ha!
Anon
Facilities is just going to have to deal with it.
Anonymous
Agree. This is their JOB. You are a grown professional woman, not somebody that facilities gets to “be mean to.” At some point stop spending your precious time looking for the keys and let the people who get paid to let you in – let you in, and don’t sweat it!
OTOH you could try a prayer to St. Anthony or making a cake for the Greek St. Fanourios. Sending you good vibes.
Senior Attorney
This. It’s their job, man. They’ll get over it.
Vicky Austin
Yup. It’s not like you haven’t looked! This is what they do!
Senior Attorney
And also I’ll eat my hat if you’re the only person in this situation.
Anon
Agree and also love the use of “eat my hat” phrase
Anonymous
Say a prayer to St. Anthony! My family always did this and it can’t hurt, haha. “Tony, Tony, Look Around. Something’s lost and must be found!” And you gotta say thank you if you find it! : )
Anonymous
I am neither Catholic nor superstitious. I do this. It works.
Anonymous
When I CANNOT find anything, it often turns out the thing was in the first place I looked, but that I for some reason overlooked it.
Having scrambled around everywhere else, I give up and do a restart, and then, voila, where I originally thought it was.
Anon
I had this experience (again) this week. I found my keys (including my computerized car key) WERE in my robe pocket after all—but only after an hour and 20 minute cycle in my HE washing machine. The car key still works!
Pep
Take a good look through your car (under the seats, in the glovebox/console, between the seats and the console.
Anon
I found my car keys in the freezer once, having lost them a couple of weeks prior. While in law school, my apartment lacked parking and I had to resort to random downtown street parking and I forgot when I had last driven my car and where I had left it. Lost it for a week. So here’s advice from an Olympic gold medal level forgetter – quit stressing yourself about it and just let building services deal with it.
Anon
One time I found my keys inside a shoe in my closet (the shoes were a spare pair that were in my purse; I put my keys in my purse; they fell inside my shoe; then I put my shoes in the closet).
Anon
I am so tired of working. I just don’t want to anymore. I have plenty of work to do (and that I need to do) but I don’t want to do any of it. I took a week off for vacation this summer but I don’t think it improved my motivation. Help? Is this burnout? It’s been around for a couple of months now and I can’t figure out how to escape it.
RR
Everyone I know has been saying similar things for the past few months, and I know I’ve been feeling it. There’s no identifiable reason on my end, so I think it’s a delayed reaction to the past year and a half. Just overall emotional exhaustion, and the adrenaline that’s been getting us through is fading.
I leaned into it a bit. Took some vacation time, turned off the computer earlier, delegated more, spent more time on hobbies. That only works to a certain extent, but it’s kept me treading water.
Anonymous
Right there with you. I am blaming burnout.
Anonymous
Yeah I feel like this too. I’ve just re-signed up for one of my hobbies so hopefully that helps.
Anonymous
I thought returning to a hobby would help. Nope. Now I just want to spend all day thinking about the hobby.
Anon
Oh I feel this so hard. I am serially obsessive about hobbies and interests.
Anon
Same. I need three months to be left utterly alone. No phone ringing off the hook, no Teams messages bleating at me, no knocks on the door. I want a cabin in the woods where I can curl up with my cat in my lap and an endless supply of herbal tea and Kindle books.
I’m childfree, but I’m starting to understand what moms mean when they say they’re touched out. If one more person demands my attention, I am going to spontaneously combust.
anon
THIS. That would be my dream vacation. After maybe a month my husband could show up if he promised to be very quiet most of the time.
Anon
So much THIS. For me, it’s been covid and childcare and work. I just want alone time.
Anon
Hello! I did this. I mean, I’m late 50s so it was financially ok for me to be basically done. Unfortunately everyone kept asking me if I was going to consult for them so I started a consultancy and never really got a break. I’m here to tell you I did it wrong.
What you really want to do is take an actual break between jobs, which is something I’ve never done.
Anonymous
If you could move your career from litigation to corporate, would you? I’ve been in litigation for a decade and as everyone says the exits options just aren’t there — every in house job gets 10,000 applicants; it’s hard to get into another firm without a book and I haven’t been able to develop a book. I like litigation but don’t feel like I’d miss it if I wasn’t doing it. There may be a corporate type opportunity that’s so desperate they are at least considering senior litigators. I wouldn’t stay forever – more 1-2 years and then seek an exit. Thoughts?
Anonymous
Do you feel you have a skill set that would make you competent and valuable in the corporate role? I have to admit that my skills are pretty limited to litigation, save for redrafting the terrible contracts corporate lawyers draft. If someone wanted a good contracts editor, I would stick my hand up. But otherwise, I am not sure what I would have to offer, especially for a year or two, and I think feeling incompetent would make me miserable. You might have broader talents, though. Think about it.
Anon
There are lots of governmental litigation jobs. The state government division where I work is about half advice attorneys/half litigation. Lower pay, lots of paid leave, pension, good health benefits, and we are often looking for a litigator or two. I won’t make the argument that it’s 9-5, because that common conception about government work would be a complete lie, but there is not the pressure of billables, nor of client development. Feds generally pay better than state or local government, but there are exceptions.
anon
+1, I was a gov’t litigator (both fed and state) and it was a good compromise for someone who doesn’t want to build a book and also doesn’t want to deal with billable hours. I ultimately left because of pay, but the work itself is fine and most of the time, it pretty much was a 9-6 job (other than trials).
Anon
Yes, 100%. I’m trying to leave litigation now, and there seem to be many more exit opportunities with a corporate background.
Emma
Someone at my firm successfully did this. She was doing insurance litigation, went into corporate, and then leveraged her network and works for the chamber of commerce. She was good at BD though so my firm gave her a lot of leeway, but there are a lot of transferable skills and corporate experience will probably open more doors if you want to go in house.
LBI NJ in September
Considering a trip to LBI, NJ in late September and have never been. Any recommendations as to best towns within LBI for a relaxing beach vacation for adults just looking to enjoy the beach, shop, walk and bike? Does the beach have lifeguards after Labor Day and are most stores still open? Any recs on places to stay – leaning towards renting through vrbo? TIA
A Nonny Mouse
Beach Haven is really nice. If you go to the southern end of BH, it is quiet, but restaurants, shops and such are still bikable. No lifeguards after Labor Day, but most stores and restaurants are open until early-mid October, and it gets later every year. There is much more of a year-round community there now. September is my favorite month on the island other than winter.
Anon
My home town!!
Beach haven is the most active town in terms of restaurants and retail. Ship bottom, surf city next. I personally prefer beach haven but anywhere will be great in September. Most things remain open until chowderfest (first weekend of October) though not everything. If you want a quieter place, holgate is gorgeous and you can bike to beach haven.
Regarding lifeguards I am honestly not sure- check Long Beach township website for most of LBI beaches status and beach haven website for that specific town.
Love ladies is for amazing mansions, if that is you the. Good for you ;)
Enjoy, I’m jealous!
OP
Thank you very much.
Anon
Does anybody else get a back to school urge in the fall? Every year around this time I find myself googling PhD programs. If I won the lottery I would be in school forever.
Anonymous
Same! Usually I just think wistfully about the PhD path I chose not to pursue in favor of law school (what was I thinking?). This year I am daydreaming about chucking it all and going back for a degree in choral conducting, a field in which I have zero training or experience.
Anonymous
My back-to-school urge is more back to kindergarten than PhD. All the pretty pens and stationary…
Anon
I don’t get a back to school urge but I get a school supplies and new shoes urge. My kids are in college and I practically beg them to show me all the school supplies they’re buying.
Anon
I like to check my undergrad alma mater’s live cams to see the kids moving in. It was very exciting to get away from my parents at that age, but I wouldn’t trade my adult autonomy to go back.
anon
My retirement plan is to take advantage of my state’s generous “free tuition for seniors” program – people can attend our land-grant university for free (other than fees) in any program you can get admitted to. I am so excited to turn 62 so I can make this a reality! (Note that I’m just in my mid-40s, so I have to hope they continue this program until I’m old enough to participate.)
Coach Laura
Yes, always want to go back to school in the fall. I soothed that urge for 12 years by teaching as an adjunct at the college level. Now I just want to buy wool plaid skirts and cozy sweaters. And highlighter pens, cool journals and bags.
Anon
Get a job at a university and you can take classes for cheap or free! I’ve taken computer programming, bioinformatics, foreign languages and wine tasting. It’s on hold for now because of Covid and young kids, but hopefully in a couple years I will go back. I want to take epidemiology/public health classes now.
Anonymous
Maybe too late – what do folks think about a gallery wall for a Zoom background? Too distracting?
Senior Attorney
I’ve done it but honestly all you could see was part of maybe two pieces because the camera angle was pretty tight.
@ratemyskyperoom on Twitter seems to like them and if you scroll through there you’ll see some good examples.
What would you do? Returning something you didn't buy
My daughter is 13. She was shopping with a friend and bought a small purse at Urban Outfitters. She didn’t open it, and when she checked out, the store associate did not open it either. When she DID open it on the ride home, she found a multi-set of earrings inside – one of those large flat holders that contains several sets of studs and small hoops. Some of the earrings were missing.
What would you do? She and her friend thought we should return them to the store and explain what happened. (It was already closed and far away by the time we found them, but we have another location near us that we can visit to return them.)
In theory, it seems like a teachable moment … do the right thing and return something you did not pay for. In practice, it seems like a lot of potential downside. It’s not a problem at all to go back to store – I’m concerned that she’ll be accused of deliberately concealing the earrings, or of taking/keeping the missing sets or something else. It was just an oversight (I’ve told her, “Future reference, check inside the purse before you buy it! Not only for unexpected merchandise but make sure the inside is in good condition, too!”) but I can absolutely see how it looks shady. If it were just me, I’d just throw out the earrings – I think the price tag was $12. But to do that feels like I’m sending a totally undesirable, “It’s okay to just let these things slide” message to my daughter, and her friend.
I’m also a little biased about this because when I was a young shopper, I set off the alarm at the UO in Philly after purchasing some accessories. Like a responsible citizen, I returned to the counter so they could deactivate whatever set it off, they accused me of stealing, made me go back in the dressing room and take off all my clothes and hand them to an associate for examination and threatened to call the police. As it turns out, one of their security stickers had peeled off some pants I tried on and stuck to my underwear. They kept me for over an hour and finally said, “I guess you can go.” No apology. (Can you tell I’m still salty about it?)
Anon
Yikes, that was extremely inappropriate of UO!!! I’m so sorry that happened to you. I would tell her that you’ll return them to the store for her while she’s at school or something and just toss them.
anon
This is what I would do too. No good deed goes unpunished.
Anon
Do this. I worked in retail a long time, and “doing the right thing” almost never goes well. You’re met with suspicion, condescension, and arrogance.
Anon
You can teach your daughter a lesson at home. Don’t waste your time or potentially get your daughter a juvenile record from her non-mistake. This isn’t the 1970s where a shop owner might just say “oh shucks, thanks for bringing it back”. A store WILL call the police for something like this. Not only are there pieces missing, your daughter didn’t do anything wrong. Let her keep the earrings if she wants, just let her know to always check your bags after purchasing. Remember ethics and morals don’t exist in a vacuum – putting your daughter in danger to make a point when she did nothing wrong makes no sense.
Anon
This is way, way over the top.
No Face
I disagree, but I’m Black so the stakes may be higher for me and my kids than for other people. George Floyd’s interaction with police started because the store thought he used a counterfeit bill. An officer-involved shooting happened in my area when a woman was accused of shoplifting. She denied shoplifting and waited patiently for the police arrived. They shot her, “by accident.”
Anon
Thank you for this comment.
Anon
This was years ago, but my (white) brother was arrested and held at the police station when he was 19 after he went shopping with a friend and unbeknownst to him, the friend shoplifted a bunch of baseball and football cards. The friend was caught and my brother was standing next to him, so they arrested him too, claiming he “must have been in on it.” I was at college and my parents were visiting my grandparents, and there was no one local for him to call, so he sat in the station handcuffed, alone, not knowing what to do. They kept him at the station until close to 1 in the morning before letting him go (he ended up having to walk back to the store, almost 3 miles, to get his car) because he didn’t have stolen goods on him, and also I guess they looked at the security camera footage and saw he didn’t take anything. It really affected him, he developed a distrust for cops that has persisted to this day, 20+ years later. Things absolutely can escalate and while the OP’s daughter’s impulse is great, I would take the suggestion of saying “oh, I’ll take these back for you” and just trashing them. Not worth the heartburn that could result from trying to do otherwise.
anon
She wasn’t the one who put the earrings in the bag. UO can’t sell them if it’s a partial set. Going back to the store sounds like a lose lose to me. She could donate them or give them away if keeping them sends the wrong message.
Cat
Honestly, this seems like “bank error in your favor” here… talking through this thought process is going to be the teachable moment, not forcing her to walk into a store that might accuse her of stealing half the set.
Cat
ETA – if it was a full set of earrings and thus still saleable merchandise, my answer would be different. I’ve done this myself because an order was showing as undelivered / lost, the retailer gave me a refund in good faith, and the box randomly showed up a week and a half later. When I live-chatted to ask what to do, they said “if you don’t want the items just bring them back to the store, otherwise keep and enjoy.”
No Face
I agree. She didn’t steal them.
I also would not throw them out.
What would you do? Returning something you didn't buy
OP here … thank you all for the gut check. If it were a full set and re-saleable, I would return them, but likely leave her out of it, thinking they’d treat her more suspiciously (a kid) than me (and adult). I’m also not trying to burden a sales associate just trying to do their job with the extra responsibility of some “Teach my kid a lesson” exercise. I just … want to remain a good citizen!! But yes, “no good deed goes unpunished” was the sentiment I was searching for. I’ll tell my daughter I spoke with the store, they said they appreciated her honesty and desire to do the right thing but since they can’t sell them, to just keep them. Since she doesn’t have pierced ears, I’ll suggest we donate them. Thanks, fellow commentators!
Anon
I say this as someone with a slightly overdeveloped conscience: you are over thinking this to the detriment of your daughter. If she accidentally took the earrings home (they got tangled up in stuff), she could return to the store to purchase them. If they were a whole set, she could return them and explain what happened. However, someone who is Not Her made the mistake, she never wanted the earrings, the store can’t resell them, and the store will 100% accuse of her of stealing the earrings that were on the flat thing.
I feel like the message you are going to send to your daughter is that it’s her job to be punished for other people’s mistakes.
CluelesswithGin
So I’m going to France (from the U.S.) and it was suggested that I bring the host a bottle of gin. It seems like the “Best” or good gins mostly come from England. And so I’m wondering, is the best thing to do to buy the gin in duty free and wrap it up cute? Or buy gin in the U.S. and deal with bringing it through customs? Suggestions welcome (for gin or approach). Thanks!
Anon B
Tanqueray No. 10 is always divine. I’ve had no problems bringing a bottle or three of CA wine into Europe in a checked bag, but not sure how customs would handle spirits. Chances are that if it’s just one bottle, it wouldn’t be questioned at all.
Anon
Buy duty free. So much easier.
CluelesswithGin
Thanks, both! I’ve never actually bought anything at duty free, so while this seemed in my head to be an okay plan, I needed some validation! I appreciate the recommendation!
Curious
Just make sure to buy it at or after your last layover! Otherwise it will exceed your liquid allowance.
Cat
If you’re checking a bag anyway, bubble-wrap the heck out of a Hendrick’s (purchase the size that meets France requirements obviously) and save yourself the headache of Perfume Central that is duty free. I also really love Citadelle but I think that might actually be French!
Emma
Not a pro on gin but as a frequent traveller to France, a single bottle of spirits in your checked luggage is fine. If you aren’t checking luggage duty free is the only option.
Anon
There is a lot of great American gin. I would find a distillery close to you and bring a bottle from there.
Anon
Barr Hill gin is amazing.
Anon
It is! The barrel-aged version is also great.
Anonymous
Buy the gin duty free!
You can bring up to a litre of gin into the EU, so you’re fine at the French border.
In Europe, you’ll normally get asked if you have a connecting flight at the duty free till, and they will seal your purchase in a clear plastic bag with the receipt visible. This allows you to bring liquid through any connecting flight security. Don’t know how that works in the US.
I recommend The Botanist, Hendrick’s and Sipsmith’s.