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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Modern Turtleneck

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A woman wearing a black long sleeve turtleneck top and dark blue denim pants with black belt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This cotton/modal blend turtleneck from Gap is a go-to item for me this season. It’s thin, but not too thin, and the fit is absolutely perfect. I really love that it comes in regular, tall, and petite sizes, which is becoming more and more unusual these days. 

The turtleneck is $39.95 at Gap and comes in 5 colors in sizes XXS-XXL, ST-XXLT, and XSP-LP; it also comes in a maternity version. It’s 30% off today with code.

Sales of note for 1/15:

196 Comments

  1. Looks like a good turtleneck. My recent experience with Gap has been disappointing…has anyone worn this turtleneck, and if so, does it last more than one wash without bobbling and shapeshifting?

    1. OMG this looks like a dupe of the one I had back in college. I loved that turtleneck! It was soft, not see-through, held its shape, and somehow did not fade a bit in spite of being machine washed and dried weekly for a decade. I was so sad when it eventually got snagged on a hanger that tore a big hole in the front.

    2. Maybe LL Bean? I like their crewnecks and have a relative who likes the turtlenecks.

    3. I like the Talbots turtles. They don’t have the grim normcore fit of Lands End or LL Bean. They also outlast Ann Taylor.

    5. I have one from a couple of years ago that has held up really well and still looks new, though I don’t put it in the dryer so can’t speak to that.

  2. Any coffee connoisseurs who would recommend their home espresso machine, or at least know of a good summary of what features are best and what to avoid…I think dual boiler is good? We have a good grinder so don’t need that feature and I prefer something on the smaller side since counter space is at a premium. I definitely don’t want something super cheap that will break down, but prefer one that will just work well and be reliable for the long haul.

    1. If you want reliable, easy, and good for small spaces, you want the Breville Bambino. We got it in the pandemic, have used it approx 4x a day ever since, and it’s going strong. It’s foolproof and the coffee tastes great.

      1. seconding Breville, except if you are in the UK, Breville is a different manufacturer and the international Breville sells under a different brand there. Well built, make very good espresso, last a long time and they sell replacement gaskets etc.

      2. I have the Bambino Plus, which automatically times the shot and the milk steaming. I love it and use it daily.

    2. I don’t have a specific recommendation, but as someone who is also in the market for an espresso machine, I can recommend the r/espresso Reddit if you really want to go down the rabbit hole. The Bambino machines seem to be a very popular choice there if you have a separate grinder. Once we resolve the debate between my husband and I, who are leaning toward something more automated, and our daughter, who works in a coffee shop and is advocating for more manual, I’ll be using suggestions from there to make my decision!

    4. I have a Jura and it’s great, but might be bigger and more expensive than what you want. But the built in grinder makes such a difference honestly.

      1. Sigh…I don’t want to pay for and then physically accommodate another grinder when I already have a very nice one.

    5. We have the De Longhi Magnifica. It’s stupidly expensive but it makes the best coffee!

    6. We’ve had a small Rancilio Silvia for 12 years going strong with multiple daily uses. Does not take up much counter space and makes great coffee. My morning cappuccino is a highlight of my day. It’s not fully automatic so you have to learn how to use it correctly, but once you get your method dialed in, it’s easy.

    7. Absolutely love our Profitec Go espresso machine! And from my understanding having a separate grinder is best anyways — then both machines can be chosen for best quality for the job. P

      1. Yes, thank you for understanding! I love my standalone grinder and don’t want to get the $$$ coffee machine version of a TV/VCR combo.

    8. I had Saeco and I had to return 3 times so quality was not great. Jura and De’longhi are very good. My De’longhi is about 5 year old and still works great.

  3. Is there anything to do for bad night vision? My night vision has been slowly getting worse, mostly for distance viewing. But I don’t think there’s any prescription that can help with just night vision, right? Not sure what to do about it. I do already wear contacts, but I’m wondering if maybe adding glasses just for night driving would help?

    1. I would get a second opinion eye exam to make absolutely sure there’s no treatable issue that’s responsible (including aging processes that may still be treatable).

    2. Almost everyone I know, regardless of whether they have good or bad vision, has found driving at night to get more difficult (and don’t even get me started about how hard it is to drive in the rain at night) as we age. Another issue is that all the new LED headlights are SO BRIGHT, they can blind oncoming drivers. I listened to a podcast about this, can’t remember which one.

      One thing I find helpful in particularly dark areas is to keep one eye on the white strip at the right hand side of the road. It helps keep me centered and helps me avoid looking directly into the bright headlights coming at me.

      1. Yes, yes, and yes!

        I am experimenting with yellow tinted glasses and they seem to be helping to reduce the glare of the LED lights.

      2. This. I have had bad eyesight all my life, and get annual checkups, so I know for a fact there is nothing new wrong with my eyes.
        Now in my 40s I find driving at night increasingly difficult, and those bright headlights make me very ragey!

        But for peace of mind, worth mentioning at your next eye exam.

    3. I find that it’s the contacts that cause the problems at night. I take them out and just wear my regular glasses.

      1. yeah my husband has yellow tinted driving glasses he wears at night to help with this (especially the headlights)

    5. Get your eyes checked- that’s the only way to know what’s going on. There could be lots of causes and you really shouldn’t guess when it comes to your eyes. Unfortunately, you may have to avoid driving at night until you can get a better determination of what’s going on. I also have problems with night vision due to an eye issue that’s not bad enough yet for surgery so I just avoid driving at night. It’s annoying but better than getting in an accident.

    6. Definitely talk to your eye doctor and see if there’s anything they can do. I wear monovision contacts and for driving at night I have glasses that go over the contacts and make both eyes distance eyes. It really helps.

    7. FWIW I have terrible vision- I use contacts but they are VERY strong and I have astigmatism. After 40, I had issues with driving at night (like for an extended period of time on the highway). In those cases, I can’t use my contacts, only my glasses. I don’t know what it is but you may want to try and see if it helps.

    8. Glasses can help. After 40, my vision did not get worse but my ability to focus and avoid strain has.

  4. Birthday gift ideas for someone in her mid 20s, athletic, not a foodie, not a gardener?

    It’s a milestone birthday and her family won’t be sending her gifts, so a tangible thing would be nice. Doesn’t have to be $$$. I’d do flowers if that were her vibe.

    1. What mid-20s milestone birthday is there?

      If she’s into running or outdoorsy athletics, perhaps some nice merino workout gear like good socks, a neck gaiter, etc.?

    2. How about coffee? I love the Dolce and Gabanna moka pots. I give them regularly as gifts with a nice coffee.

    3. Athletic can always use more gear, if you know what her sports are that will be helpful. Othewise, good socks and gaiters are fun.

    5. Sprints has a bunch of fun prints for running hats/visors and car seat covers (for when you are sweaty post work out). I’d get her one of the silly prints that reminds you of her.

    6. If you think she might be a reader at all, IMO books are a good sweet spot of not-that-expensive but easy to personalize/make a person feel known & special (especially if you are a reader! “I read this, and it reminded me of you because XYZ” in a card is <3) – maybe something related to her hobbies?

    7. In the athlete vein: gear like fancy socks; workout tanks with a funny saying on it, like from nerdy shirts; 80s style sweatbands; water bottle; hoodie. Depending on her sports there might be other specialized gear (mesh hat if she does outdoor stuff that doesn’t require a helmet, yoga mat, barbells, etc.). One of those massage guns might be nice, or other foam rollers.

      1. PSA – if you have a healthcare flex spending account with money you will lose at year end, massage gear is FSA-eligible!

      1. 25 is totally a milestone! Halfway to 50, and I absolutely remember the first time I couldn’t select “18-24” age group in a survey, and felt so, so very old. (and now, remembering that feeling makes me feel ANCIENT). But either way, it’s a nice thing to send someone a birthday present, especially if you think they like presents, and may not get any otherwise.

          1. why do you think people of all ages are not deserving of a bit of recognition? What harm does this do to you?

          2. I mean, I totally agree that 25 isn’t in any way a milestone birthday. But it is still a birthday, and people can be nice to their friends on their birthdays!

          3. Haha, I’m with you. Celebrate your friends by all means, but don’t make up meaning. A regular birthday is good enough.

      2. 25 is when you get your FULLY DEVELOPED BRAIN! We ignored 21 and celebrated 25 for my son.

      3. +1. But also sounds like this woman doesn’t have a lot of love in her life, so a present is nice!!!

      4. She’s actually turning 26 and becoming qualified for different financial aid to go back to school. She couldn’t previously qualify despite parents not providing any support. So very much a milestone.

        1. She doesn’t already know where she’s going to school, does she? The official school branded sweatshirts are expensive on a student budget but would be a nice gift

    9. Maybe something cozy? Like a nice, thick bathrobe, cozy socks, a classic wool throw?

      I still have and use a thick fleece robe my mom gave me twenty years ago, and I think of her every time.

    10. Don’t get her anything for her sports without checking first… most athletes are super specific in what they want.

      Some ideas: good socks (I like Balega and Feetures), running vest or belt bag, Goodr or other non-slip sunglasses, offer to buy her new running shoes/cleats/whatever footwear she uses, base layers if in a cold climate, reflective/light up vest, adjustable weights, new headphones.

      She likely already has plenty of hats, water bottles, an Garmin, etc.

      1. I think this is a know-your-audience thing, at 25 I absolutely did not have things like running-specific hats, water bottle was a old nalgene I took from the apartment “free stuff” bin, etc.

      2. Totally agree with this. Athletes have strong preferences about gear. Don’t buy unless you know what exactly she prefers. A gift certificate to her store of choice is best. (REI? Fleet Feet? local running store?)

      1. You can make cash interesting – like, if you send a book, I put cash between the pages. Origami works regardless of the denomination, though most are demonstrated with $1 bills.

    12. If she lives somewhere cold, Skida makes fantastic hats, neck gaiters, fleecy headbands. They’re both luxurious and fun colors. And a women-owned business.

      Also, Stio, makes great vests and fleeces, highly recommend too!

    13. Is she a runner or cyclist where she might be out at dusk or dawn? I got my husband a lighted vest for running and he loves it and people stop to ask where he got it all the time, I think it’s the Tracer2 from Noxgear. I bike commute and just bought some highly recommended ProViz jackets and wow are they bright when headlights hit them – expensive, and coming from the UK so even more expensive but tariffs are built in to the cost and they are very high quality, and work for runners too.

  5. Would appreciate the group’s thoughts on this.

    When we were young and very financially unsophisticated, my husband and I purchased a non-qualified, deferred fixed annuity for our toddler. We have been paying into it monthly for ~15 years now. The current value minus the surrender fee is about $100 less than the total of all the monthly payments we have put in. The deferment period is quite long still (it was set up to begin paying out when our child reached retirement age). We have regretted setting this up for some time, but the surrender value was always so small that we succumbed to the sunk cost fallacy and just kept it going on auto pilot.

    We realize that the monthly annuity payment would do far better if just dropped into a target date fund. Would it be prudent to cash this thing out now? Since it hasn’t actually earned more than what we have paid in, it seems like there would not be a tax bill to consider since there are no earnings (at least, that’s how I think the cash-out tax works on these). We would drop whatever money we do walk away with into a brokerage account now, and then invest the monthly amounts there going forward. Is there anything I am missing or not considering here?

    1. It sounds like your child is in college or might be headed to college soon, so I would check with a financial planner about how it would impact next year’s financial aid, if you are receiving need-based aid.

      1. OP here. Thank you! I had not thought of that, but we are fortunate that there are no financial aid considerations.

        The tax piece is my biggest concern, aside from just not knowing if there is anything else we have not considered (like the potential impact to financial aid). From what I can tell, though, it is only earnings that would be taxed. Since our total premium payments are more than the current value, I think earnings are negative and thus there is no tax.

    2. One time I had been talked into a crappy financial contract, I got a consultation with the local consumer protection bureau. In my case, cashing out would have yielded basically nothing but there was the option to just stop paying into it and let it sit. Your case sounds a little different but you could see if that’s an option that would make sense.

    3. Absolutely dump this and invest the money in your brokerage account.

      I really hate the Financial Advising world. When I was in my 20s, my Bank based Financial Advisor also tried to talk me into an annuity. Every day you don’t get out, you are losing more.

  6. If you’re married, do you give presents to family members like parents individually or as a unit? I’d prefer to do as unit but not sure what’s common.

      1. I misunderstood the question- I sometimes buy a gift for each set of parents they can use as a couple like a museum membership or individual gifts, like clothes or whatever, but they always come from me and my husband as a unit.

    2. Individually from the couple as a unit—but its usually things like books or polo shirts, or earrings.

    3. My husband buys presents for his side of the family and I buy presents for my side of the family. I think any other setup is weird.

      1. You can divide responsibility for ideas & shopping and still have gifts signed as from both of you – which one are you saying is weird?

        1. For real. It’s not weird. I’m good at shopping and enjoy it so I buy all our holiday gifts for his side and mine. He takes out the trash and does a million other chores I hate. There are a lot of ways to divvy up “labor.”

          2. That’s just not how I see the world? Why do you care so much that married people do things they’re good at for each other? Does your husband refuse to help you? Are you in one of those tit for tat relationships? Do you post here asking if it’s okay to divorce? I don’t get it.

          3. I’ll bite. My DH does not think of these things and I am at my max between buying for our children (who both have December birthdays!), and my family (with whom we spend the holiday out of state), plus planning their birthday parties and arranging travel. So, he is responsible for his family and and he chooses to buy nothing for his parents/siblings/nephews. I think it’s a really bad look, but I do not have the bandwidth to take it on.

            And no, we are not anywhere near divorce, I do not resent him for this, we help each other with a million other things all through the year and we’ve been married for 15 joyful years!

          4. I think the reason people have strong feelings about this is that it’s one of those things that *tends* to fall on women, and *tends* to fall on women who are doing a disproportionate amount of household + life management, especially unseen emotional labor.

            So, yes, it’s possible for a marriage to have a roughly even division of labor where one spouse does all the present-buying, even for their in-laws. And if that’s what you have and it’s working, fantastic! But among marriages where one spouse does all the present buying, many of them are ones where the division of labor is way, way off. And that presses people’s buttons.

            (And a way off balance division of labor is a problem in a marriage! You can err either by going fully into tit-for-tat, everything must be 50/50 with no room for people having a rough season or whatever, marriage-is-a-business-negotiation, but you can absolutely also err by just saying “oh, we both do what we’re good at, which means DH mows the lawn 1/x month and I do everything else”)

          5. I’m in a great marriage because I’m married to someone who also thinks it’s obvious that he is responsible for buying presents for the people who raised him.

          6. Oh, and co-sign poster at 11:11. If he doesn’t buy the presents, that’s totally fine and his choice. I wouldn’t be mad at him. I just also wouldn’t do it for him. Giving his mom and dad a present is not joint labor; it’s individual labor. I don’t buy presents for his friends, either.

            I would (and do) shop for my nieces and nephews on that side because kids are different.

            I truly think it would be weird if he got my parents a gift and I didn’t get them anything, and I think it would be weird if I got his a gift and he didn’t get anything. And I think people can tell whether the present was selected by the person they’ve known since birth or not.

          7. @11:34, I have strong feelings about this because it simply is not joint labor like needing to mow the grass or whatever. The grass is outside a shared home. Family that predates our marriage is not shared. It’s a little like how I don’t shave his beard and he doesn’t shave my legs. Some things remain individual, even in great marriages where actual shared labor is handled by whoever has time.

          8. What are you talking about. Marriage is literally the sharing of families you weirdo. I’m willing to bet you are the toxic person in your marriage.

          9. People who let internet concepts like emotional labor enter their marriage are doomed for divorce court.

          10. Agreed. It’s so cringy hearing people go on about emotional labor. Yes, sometimes I pick up the slack on things my spouse doesn’t want to do, and vice versa. If we’re both tired, we both do nothing, and the world doesn’t end. What I do not do is insist on my perfectionist tendencies to the detriment of our household.

            Emotional labor whiners need to take honest stock of themselves and what they offer. If they’re in a genuinely bad marriage, it isn’t because of emotional labor and they should fix what’s broken or leave.

          11. My husband has literally never asked me to buy presents for his parents or siblings. It’s just not a conversation we’ve ever had, because again, it seems obvious that you buy presents for the people who raised you. You don’t outsource that, even to your spouse. That’s part of loving your parents and siblings. It’s not a thing to be divided in marriage, because it’s an expression of love, not a task to be divided up.

            I take his mother to a medical appointment once a month and we often take care of a nephew when his currently pregnant mom has things to do, and those are the sort of things that I think actually does become joint in a marriage — the physical logistics of caring for the elderly and the young and the sick. We aren’t hosting holidays this year, but that’s another thing I think is joint in a marriage. But buying presents? That remains individual, because it’s a way to offer love and gratitude to the people who have been in your life the longest, and again, I just don’t think you outsource love.

          12. Wow – you take time off work to take his mother to a medical appointment once a month? That is a huge thing, and a lot of time off to sacrifice. I’ve never heard of a working spouse doing that regularly for an in-law.

          13. What a lot of incorrect assumptions you’ve made! We handle it on the weekend.

        2. Oh, we both put our names on the gift, but there’s one gift and neither of us have to shop for the other person’s family.

      2. Yeah I buy presents for mine and he buys presents for his, but then they are presented as “from us”.

        1. ha, hilarious this comment is followed by the most TradWife comment ever. Great take, girls.

      4. I buy and wrap all the gifts (he gives ideas and communicates with his family) and my husband pays the credit card bill.

          1. No OP – but I would never put my credit card bill on auto pay. I want to look that bill over and make sure everything is valid. But then I once had fraudulent charges so high that it would have wiped out my checking account and left me without enough for rent so I am a bit paranoid about that.

          4. I have most of things on autopay (car payment, storage unit, phones, etc.). But would NEVER do a credit card this way. I’ve had too many fraud charges and sometimes at wild amounts. All it takes is one time to tie up your bank account for months.

          5. I have YNAB, so I review purchases daily. And then yes, the bill is on autopay.

      5. DH and I help each other. His sister and I have pretty similar taste so it’s super easy for me to find a gift for her, whereas DH would struggle. I usually buy for our niece (DH’s sister’s baby) too because DH and I have a baby close in age to niece and I do most of the shopping for our baby. When I find something fun, I get two! I enjoy doing it.

        DH helps me with my difficult to please relatives. I never know what to get my brother and my mom’s BF, so DH usually gets or at least suggests something for them.

    4. Couple gives as a unit. Sometimes it’s also a joint gift for the receiving couple, sometimes it’s gifts to each individual parent, but always signed “from Cat & DH”

      2. Same here. Although at our age we are pretty darned low on people to give gifts to.

    5. Most gifts are from the two of us combined, but there are exceptions for things like special interests and shared jokes. We tend to get multiple gifts for family members – usually one big gift plus some smaller, stocking stuffer-type things – and sometimes one or more of the gifts has a special meaning for either DH or me and the giftee, so that gets an individual label.

      1. This is what we do, too. And for more personal, girl to girl gifts: if I’m giving my sister perfume or a silk nightgown, I find it a little weird to sign my husband’s name on it too.

    6. We give gifts from both of us. The gift might be one thing for each couple, or may be two separate gifts, it just depends on what we select each year. I do all the selecting, buying, and wrapping. I ask for his input on some items, for other things I just inform him that I’m getting X for his brother’s wife. He largely doesn’t care, and I usually enjoy buying gifts and wrapping.

      One year I tried having him taking care of gifts for his family, and it didn’t work well so it’s best that I do this.

      1. Same. I’m not cool with letting my husband “fail” the holidays. He’s a hard worker and I’m good at presents.

        1. He isn’t “failing the holidays” if he gives presents that miss the mark (or no presents) because gift giving isn’t a test.

        2. I am with you and it is a miracle to me that some people manage to stay married.

          But then my MIL and FIL give me great individual gifts, not just “couple” gifts so the idea I could not be bothered to help shop for them strikes me a silly.

    7. The gifts are from both of us. But my husband is responsible for his dad and brother because they are impossible to shop for, and I handle everything else.

    8. We just got married and so are figuring this out! My husband is a good gift giver and does take the lead on gifts for his side. What we are leanings towards now is the “main” gift is from both of us, and something individual or smaller may be from just one of us, but we try to keep things relatively even.

  7. If you are in house counsel , how do you keep track of all your running items – both for yourself and your team ?

    Also , are there any training programs to learn how to be a great in house leader ? I feel like in so many ways I’m self taught

    2. Google Doc I obsessively update (always open). Anything else is either too much overhead or too vague.

      1. Excel Sheet yep. I’m happy to see other low-tech-lawyering solutions here too :)

    3. Honestly really haphazardly with a word doc that has a table of all my open matters with a status column and open actions column, then a notepad where I write daily tasks and a million open draft outlook windows where I take scratch notes during meetings… yeah not great

        1. Agree. If your org uses the Microsoft suite, OneNote is great for keeping things visible and organized.

    4. I’ve tried other tech solutions, and keep defaulting to an old school planner. I’m partial to a full page daily planner, and each day write out short term and long term items with reminders to check in on items physically written on Monday’s of each week. For me, it’s 10 minutes at the start of my day to get organized. My favorite for years is the Daily + Monthly Planning Calendar from Day Designer.

      1. A similarly low-tech approach is to keep four lists in a word doc: today’s meetings, today’s tasks, weekly tasks, and quarterly goals. I move items from the weekly tasks into today’s tasks and put them in order of urgency. This is more an individual contributor approach though. I’m sure it’s more complicated for leading a team.

    5. I was doing Trello for a while but then my company stopped paying for it. Honestly it’s a combo of inbox zero (so anything in my inbox is pending) and an old school paper notebook.

    6. I’m in publishing, but airtable is my jam. I like it because I can set up simple checklists and attach supporting emails or resources so it’s all in one place. I can set auto reminders that will alert team members of deadlines so I don’t have to. The pre-made template options are vast, so I don’t have to create anything from scratch if I ever need something slightly different. I can be as transparent as I want (or not) on team member access.

    7. I use a combo of a Google doc that I update once a week with everything on my plate in an Eisenhower matrix and Superhuman for day to day take management. I email myself anything I need to do. Superhuman allows me to pre schedule follow ups and reminders, and send emails back to my inbox at a later time, which is very valuable.

      But honestly this is a struggle for me so I’m curious about other responses!

    8. For keeping track of items, I use OneNote from a technological perspective. But for a mindset or approach, I like Cal Newport and his podcasts/books about time block planning and other productivity ideas.

      When I became GC somewhat unexpectedly, I used Manager Tools podcasts to get up to speed on my own time. They have a basic set of casts as well as very specific things for lots of different circumstances. They also have a Career Tools line more for individual contributors and an Executive Tools line for higher level leadership.

    9. Im in Tech in-house. I use a Jira kanban board. We have integrations from Slack and gmail. I create a ticket or epic for each project or sub-item, set deadlines, track whether stuff is in backlog, to-do, draft, out for comment (internal), out for comment (external), out for signature, and done. It lets me track requests by categories, set deadlines, get reminders when things are due. It’s the best. This lets me keep all attachments, loop in colleagues to assist with tickets, leave notes to myself re progress. It’s super-efficient and I love it. Highly recommend.

    10. Watching with interest – we would not use Google due to security concerns, but that was over 5 years ago – entire org has Google-based platform.

      Have heard good things about Symplicity products for case management, but they are also $$$ and for high-volume service areas

  8. Please send all your luck, good wishes, positive energy, and whatever else will help me get the thing. Thank you!

  9. Can I just rant for a minute here?

    Leadership keeps putting additional tasks and meetings on our team’s desk, like trainings due by end of year, various EOY meetings, and on top of it, now a trip across the country for a team meeting, when there’s additional snow forecast for the days of travel. All on top of finishing projects and doing performance discussions etc etc etc.
    December is somewhat of a half month for us anyways since many people go OOO after the 19th given how the days fall this year, so it feels doubly compressed.

    Plus, I’m dealing with health insurance and providers for some diagnostic procedures where I’m running in circles trying to schedule in any reasonable time frame and getting cost estimates.

    Obviously, my kids’ school has all sorts of end of year stuff, from excursions to teacher gifts to projects due to music performances where we have to shuttle my kid plus instrument at different times of day…

    Plus family keeps asking about our wish lists for Christmas. Honestly, my wish list right now is to be left alone and not burdened with any more demands for my input on anything.

    Just going to scream into a pillow for a minute, before taking a deep breath and tackling my to do list one by one.

    1. Ugh, I’m sorry. My father once worked for a company that used to exercise some kind of power trip around Christmas – scheduling all-staff meetings for 4 pm on Christmas Eve, deciding to require 10 years of minor documentation updates to be due on 12/27, etc. You can guess what that did to morale.

      1. This is truly awful. I work in consulting and Big 4 previously and the holiday shutdown is treated as sacred. These aren’t exactly places known for their work/life balance so if we can shutdown most other places can.

      2. The founder of the (fortune 500) company I was laid off from this spring had a well-earned reputation for scheduling Christmas Eve meetings “as punishment” with whatever group was seen as underperforming that year. Last year it was 6pm. I was just waking up thinking “even still being There would be better than this interminable job search” but this reminded me it…really wasn’t.

        [as you can probably reasonably guess, this particular “tradition” wasn’t the worst of their leadership practices]

          1. Nope, people who stay at that company long enough to be in leadership are people who both understand the conditions of remaining employed there and have decided it’s a trade they’re willing to make.

      3. Ok, maybe I should not complain then – that would be so much worse.

        1. Complain away, there is room for more than one bad leadership in the world!

          Also, honestly truly, I’ve never been as frustrated with work as with dealing with health care + insurance. That is truly, truly the pits. At least with work, they are paying me to deal with their messes; with health insurance I’m thinking the whole time “I’m paying you $$$$ for this!!!”

    2. I deeply empathize. We’re in the final throes of college applications here so I’m about to lose my mind between work, holidays, and managing interviews/essays/etc.
      Can you hire a sitter for evenings or weekends to do something fun with the kids so that you can get some heads down work done? Or have the sitter take the kids out for a few hours so you can wrap gifts in peace. I’d also offload any and all cooking and food shopping – get delivery, buy the precut fruit/veggies, have ready to heat type meals or easy pasta for the next few weeks.

      1. Honestly, spending time with my kid and cooking food are things that bring me joy, so outsourcing would not help (and would just be another task on the list TBH).

      2. Look, I get that this is a stressful time. I was stressed when I was a senior; so was my mom.

        However: Are you going to manage your kid’s applications, essays, and interviews when they’re in college? I hope not, so take them off your list now! The application process offers future functional members of society an opportunity to learn time management skills, experience consequences in a fundamentally lower-stakes setting (no matter what you, your child, and the elite college admissions rat race may have convinced yourselves of), and take ownership over their own academic success.

    3. Truly one of the greatest things my husband and I did years ago was just decide we weren’t doing presents for any occasion. I still have to buy my family presents, but getting one gift off the to-do list was helpful (every year I try convincing my parents none of us need stuff and let’s just put whatever we would spend on presents toward charitable donations or a family vacation or something, but no such luck).

      1. Oh, I’ve tried.

        Also, we are by far out-earning everyone else in my family, so we really do not need gifts and can buy everything we need or want ourselves. No luck conveying that to parents or grandparents.
        My solution has been to add to an Amazon list during the year, and then just send the ideas to family (they are abroad so not everything I put on it is available on their local Amazon, and plus, it must be small enough to fit into our luggage).
        Oh yeah, forgot that we travel abroad, too, a few days after I return from business trip.

        I’m now hearing a version of Jingle Bells in my head: “Oh what fun it is to ride in this madness of Xmas days…” LOL.

        1. One year I had something like 12 days of business travel scheduled between Thanksgiving and Christmas. At one point during a meeting in Germany the participants (all men) were chuckling about how they still needed to do their holiday shopping. They asked how much I had left to do. I said I had everything bought and already wrapped, and that I was happy I would be home for St. Nicolas Day before my next trip. They were flabergasted. I commented that I had 5 more days of travel left that month and no wife at home to pick up the slack…

          1. The real trick is getting everything done in November so you can just enjoy December. I’ve done that for years, been called crazy, maybe missed a few discounts but I’m never stressed come December.

    4. Haha, my MIL just asked me what sorts of things I might want for Christmas and my knee jerk thought was that I would rather not get anything than add that to my to-do list.

      1. Can relate to this, as well.

        And what’s worse, I have an idea and communicate that, but then my mom changes what she buys because she likes something else better. WTH.

  10. Suggestions for gifts for a niece’s sweet sixteen party? (It’s a church basement-type affair, not a fancy to-do like you see on TV. ) Thinking around $40.

    2. Kendra Scott jewelry is very popular with my 17 year old and her friends. The version sold at Target should be in your price range for a necklace or earrings.

      1. My local TJMaxx has a bunch of Kendra Scott in their jewelry department (it’s in the glass cases, not boxed and out on the shelves).

    3. Based on my holiday shopping lists from the teens in my family – cash, or a gift card to sephora/starbucks.

    4. Depends on what part of the country you are in, but James Avery has plenty of jewelry for this purpose.

  11. Bought my daughter (at her request) a used Bottega bag from the Real Real during their Black Friday event. Arrived today and definitely needs a good cleaning. Is this something you would tackle yourself, or find a professional? If the latter, how did you find a good one?

    1. Ugh, use a professional. Look for someone who restores luxury hand bags. They will have pictures of their work so you can assess what they can do.

    2. I would have a professional take care of this. Try your local cobblers, they usually take care of anything leather!

    3. I have a really good drycleaner and a really good cobbler. I’d ask them for recommendations or if they could handle it (I would trust their answer to that question).

    4. Not sure where you are located but I highly recommend Rago Brothers, if you are in the NYC/NJ area. They are in Morristown. I think you can even ship them products. They have restored countless high end items for me.

  12. I’d like to update my jewelery. I usually just wear silver small hoops or studs. I’d like pairs I can wear everyday but that look more substantial / sophisticated . Suggestions on where to shop

    2. Unless you’re invested in the idea of poring over what Etsy has on offer (I love doing this) you might have luck seeing what a department store jewelry section has on offer and being able to see things in person.

    4. Two questions:
      – What’s your budget?
      – What does sophisticated mean to you? Upgraded materials, interesting shapes, etc?

    5. You can never go wrong with pearl studs. Gold hoops are also classic. I like to have a few pairs of semi-precious stone drops, such as topaz and aventurine. Estate jewelry is a fun category to look for new pieces (such as at actual estate sales).

  13. My family has done “Adopt a Family” for a few years in my town and this year it’s hitting extra hard. So very glad to do this, and to be able to do this, but the two kids are the exact same age and gender as my own. I teared up pretty much immediately when I opened this list. We want to do whatever we can to fulfill the whole list, which I will clarify is absolutely not the expectation set by the organization of the receiving families or the givers.

    All that said, the 6 year old girl wants an American girl doll. It’s her only ask that is > $20, apart from the winter coat I’m guessing mom added to the list (which we will also get). So, I’m guessing it’s something she really wants. American Girl is not a brand I follow so not sure what the pattern for sales are. Before I go purchase one at full price, are there any sales, coupon codes or other tricks to getting these for a discount this time of year? I was Team Samantha as a kid but now there are so many options. I don’t know anything else about the 6 year old recipient, so what is a middle of the road doll to get for her? Looks like they’re about $135 full price?

    TIA!

    1. Target has a line of dolls and clothes that are the same size and general style as AG dolls. There’s probably a discount code for AG dolls somewhere online, but if you want to get accessories, I’d try Target.

      1. If a kid wants a doll, she asks for a doll. If she wants an American Girl doll, she doesn’t want a Target knock off.

        2. Bad choice of words – if I was doing the buying I’d get an American Girl doll and knock off clothes from Target.

          1. It was clear to me what you meant, and I agree with this approach. AG dolls are worth it but the clothes are overpriced for the quality.

    2. I went on Craigslist, and you can find some of the Our Generation Dolls on there for a more reasonable price if you are in a larger metropolitan area, then get an outfit or two, and put it in a very posh box. Samantha from Days of Yore is a collector’s item.

    3. I’m not sure what the pattern for sales is, but the “historical characters” section is where you will find the classic AG dolls like Samantha, Kiersten, Molly, etc. I would go for one of these as the others are branded as Disney characters, etc. Feels like a kid could get a Disney character anywhere, but the classic AG dolls are, well, classic.

    4. A middle of the road doll might be this year’s “Girl of the Year” which is listed on the website. Or for 2026 is Raquel, who is supposed to be like the great-great-great granddaughter of Samantha.

    5. Hi, I don’t have a coupon, but I’d be very much inclined to get a voucher for American girl so she can choose one which looks like her.

      1. I wouldn’t do this. You don’t know what barriers there may be for this girl to get to the American Girl store.

        1. Agree. Also, if parents are that broke, they might feel the need to sell it for cash.

    6. Just to say that you are a lovely person for doing what you can to give the two girls some joy and attention.

  14. Im a fed and i am considering going to the private sector to work for a government contractor to try to leap frog the gs scale and to get some outside experience. I have been a fed for 20 years and a little scared of leaving. Are there benefits-related drawbacks to leaving at this point (or other drawbacks) that I am not considering? I love my job but don’t see a ton of upward mobility soon.

    1. Most federal contractors have combined PTO that will give you less time off than you had as a fed. Morale is low and some are only laying off, not hiring.

    2. I am at a Big 4 that does government contracts. I like it. I got a significant raise (went from $130k to $175k). I get unlimited PTO and the firm closes down for two weeks a year (once around July 4th and then again between Christmas and New Years). I find the benefits to be comparable, if not better than, what I was making as a fed. I did have private sector experience before becoming a fed though.

    3. If you leave before you are eligible for an immediate retirement, you do not get to keep FEHB in retirement.

    4. The leave benefit is definitely less. The pay benefit is probably more. The work also may be mixed because you may not get to work in the area you work in now if that matters to you. You should also know that earning business is more important the higher up you go.

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