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Updated: Oct 30, 2018 288 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Neoprene Pencil Skirt

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Affordable Work Skirt: Halogen Neoprene Pencil SkirtOur daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.  Happy Friday, ladies! This neoprene skirt looks great — I like the purplish color here (it also comes in gray and in a floral print), the pockets, and the “hand wash cold” instruction (as opposed to dry clean). It's on discount for $44 as part of the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale (only for Nordstrom cardholders for now, until the sale opens to everyone on 7/22), in sizes XS-XL, but the price will go back up after 8/8. Halogen Neoprene Pencil Skirt Here's a plus-size option in a similar burgundy color (14W-24W). Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-5)

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Comments

  1. The Sound of Music

    Suppose you crave cooler climes in the summer. Suppose also that your daughters are mad about The Sound of Music.

    Would your next summer trip be to Vermont (to the B&B the von Trapps have had there)?
    Or Salzburg, Austria (and maybe Vienna)?

    If so, is any summer month (June/July/August) better for either? Also, in Salzburg, is being openly into SOM OK or does it highly annoy the locals?

    • Anonymous

      I would definitely choose Austria over Vermont. Why not go to both Salzburg and Vienna? Haven’t been there so not sure about the month. I bet there’s plenty cheesy SOM things you can embrace there. There’s a SOM bus tour (through panorama tours) that you can take.

    • anonshmanon

      Someone told me they did a guided bike tour that had an SOM theme and it was super amazing. So if you mean ‘do they pander to tourists/fans?’ sure.
      If you are planning to break out in song in the middle of town, you will be stared at! ;)

      • emeralds

        Austria for sure–I don’t even know why this is a question :) I’ve been to Salzburg and there are a ton of SOM-themed tours that you can do. It’s a pretty small city, so I would do Vienna, Salzburg, and then maybe a day or two in an Alpine village. Either June or July should be fine for weather.

        • Anonymous

          How is it if you don’t know German? Is it concievable to pick up enough German to get by as a tourist (perhaps with serious cramming on the plane over)?

          Signed,
          why, exactly, did I take so much Latin?

          • Anonymous

            Completely fine. I don’t speak a word of German. Everyone speaks English. I can’t really think of a country in Europe where you can’t get by without speaking any of the local language. It’s polite to try to learn a few words but absolutely not necessary.

          • emeralds

            I don’t speak German past counting to ten and saying hello, goodbye, thank you, and “I don’t speak German. Do you speak English?” and I was fine. If you’re in touristy areas like Salzburg and Austria (or Berlin/Munich/etc.), you will be fine with English and the level of German required to be polite and find an English speaker (on the off chance that the first person you ask does not, but they probably will).

          • Aunt Jamesina

            Yes, honestly (and I say this with sadness as a former language teacher), I’ve never been anywhere in Europe where I haven’t been able to get by without a few polite expressions, gesturing, and a bit of English when necessary– and this includes the tiny Polish farming village my MIL is from.

          • CMC

            I studied abroad in Salzburg (and enjoyed it, though as a side note Vienna seemed WAY more interesting as a place to spend an entire semester, but hindsight), and was hoping to improve my German. Instead, the second I messed up at all I’d get a (genuinely) kind smile and a, “I’m sorry, do you speak English?” from the locals. So speaking any German was totally unnecessary, though it was nice to start with the standard Excuse me, do you speak English? (Entschuldigung, sprechen Sie Englisch?).

            The only time I was anywhere where I couldn’t find an English speaker was when my roommate and I got on the wrong train and ended up in a teeny tiny Czech/Poland border town. That’s when minimal German came in handy. But even then, we were so out of place that a lovely older Czech lady motioned us onto the correct train for Prague, and frantically motioned across the train car to us to get off when we got there. Thank you, Concerned Czech Lady, we were very grateful.

          • CMC

            Oh, and Salzburg is by and large a tourist town, so SOM tourism doesn’t really annoy locals. Even if it did Austrians are pretty private people (as I experienced it) and wouldn’t say as much to you.

            Do check out the Augustiner beer garden if you can, it’s beautiful. Also the walk/hike around the modern art museum atop the Moenchsberg has some great views.

    • Anonymous

      Definitely do Austria. I have no particular interest in SOM (seen the movie and enjoyed it, but not a fanatic or anything) and I couldn’t get away from it in Salzburg! It seemed like everywhere we turned there were SOM tours or themed stuff. Salzburg is also a stunning place, with gorgeous scenery and great hiking, so there will be a lot for adults to enjoy. Vienna makes sense as another stop in Austria. Innsbruck is another gorgeous city in the Alps. You might be able to go there for the day from Salzburg.
      In general, I try to avoid Europe in August because all the locals take their own vacations then. It looks like it might still be kind of chilly in early June, so I’d vote for late June or July.

    • E

      I was in Salzburg in May – it was very very hot, so I’m not sure I would go over the summer if you’re looking for cooler climates. I also just looked at the weather and it will be in the 80s this week. It is a beautiful town and pretty touristy, so people are definitely used to SOM fans (I have never seen the movie, though, and still had a great time so there’s plenty to do outside of movie-related things). Would highly recommend Vienna – it is beautiful and there’s a ton to do. If you’re there, definitely go to the Schonbrunn Palace; it’s one of the most beautiful places I’ve ever been.

      • Anonymous

        The average high in July and August is 75 and in June 72, with lows in the 50s in every month, according to Wikipedia. Vermont is a lot warmer. Seems like you got an unusually hot week in Salzburg. I was there in August a few years ago and it was in the low 70s. Humidity is low too, which makes a big difference. I guess it depends on where you’re coming from but for most people in the US, Salzburg is significantly cooler than home in the summer.

        • E

          I am from Florida originally so am used to the heat – I was surprised at how warm and sunny it was (I had to stop in a drugstore and buy some sunscreen). I was in Austria for several months and thought it got pretty warm in Vienna towards the end of May. YMMV. And yeah I’m really not a movie person – the last time I watched a movie was Summer 2014. I don’t even really know the plot of the Sound of Music either; I had a very sheltered/movie-free childhood also, so am missing a lot of pop culture/entertainment knowledge.

          • Anonymous

            Wow — I had a very sheltered childhood so I watched SOM (and not Friday the 13th / Gossip Girl / teen slasher fare) and a lot of other movie musicals with my parents

          • E

            I don’t think my parents objected to the content, it was more that they weren’t super into movies/TV so I just didn’t grow up watching and never really picked it up. I don’t feel particularly deprived, though I do feel somewhat out of the loop occasionally.

    • Nerding Out Anon For This

      SALZBURG, AUSTRIA! I was backpacking solo through Europe as a 20-year-old and was largely up to no good, but somehow I found a tour company and ended up on a tour bus full of American grandmas, singing the Sound of Music sound track between stops as we went from the Von Trapp “house”, to the gazebo Liesl sang in, to the church they got married in, to the gardens they sing Do Re Me in. OMG, it was nerd-tastic and one of the greatest things I’ve ever done!!

      • OP

        I had to not take my children to see a SOM play b/c I thought they would probably sing throughout it (not sure if the is cool to do at SOM plays — I would pay extra for a singing option).

      • emeralds

        That sounds amazing! We didn’t do a SOM tour and I regret it to this day, since I don’t know if I’ll ever get back to Salzburg.

      • SC

        I’ve done that same bus tour. It was nerd-tastic and so much fun. We also did a salt mine tour, which was totally cheesy and fun. (I was probably 16 years old and there with a group from my high school.) Also, to answer another of OP’s questions, none of us spoke any German, and we were fine.

      • OP

        90+ degrees and 90% humidity? If not, Vermont is probably significantly cooler when where I am.

        • Anonymous

          Unlikely but possible. Vermont is landlocked and the towns aren’t at altitude. In July and early August, it routinely hits mid 80s and humid (albeit not to levels seen in the South or Mid Atlantic). It will be cooler than where you’re from, but it’s not like Maine.

          • OP

            Good to know! My parents live along the AT (several states south) and it is significantly cooler than down in the villages (and cold at night).

            Sometimes, though, it’s just the humidity — fleeing that means some heat is still OK (doubly so if SOM-related).

          • Anonymous

            Mid-coast/southern Maine is often in the upper 80s and fairly humid in July and August. 20 years ago, temps in the mid-high 80s in the Bar Harbor area were very rare, but the area has warmed up tremendously. Someone told me that climate change has affected the Gulf of Maine more than any other part of the United States, and I 100% believe it based on my own experience.

    • panko

      I’ve visited the Von Trapp lodge in Vermont and strongly suggest Austria. If you’re interested in visiting Vt then make a side trip to the Von Trapp lodge, but you’ll probably only want to spend about 1/2 day there. To be honest, it felt to me like a run down 1950s style ski lodge. Vermont, on the other hand, is fantastic, especially if you like to hike!

    • Mountain Girl

      Salzburg – probably my favorite city in Europe. In addition to the Sound of Music it is the birthplace of Mozart and the Hohensalzburg Fortress overlooks the city. The Hohensalzburg is one of the largest castles in Europe is you must visit if you are in Salzburg. The city really celebrates Mozart so you will be able to experience all of this in just one city. Definitely visit Salzburg.

    • WestCoast Lawyer

      If you go to Austria over the summer decide which attractions you think you want to see and make sure they are not on holiday during your trip. In Vienna, if I recall correctly, the opera, Lipizzaner horses, boys choir and several other groups were closed in late-July/early-August, although the museums and palaces were all open.

      • Snoozy

        And be aware that the Salzburg Festival has a major impact on hotel prices.

        I do not like SOM, but the tour was a surprising amount of fun (my sister’s the fan), and the surrounding countryside you get to see is gorgeous. It is very touristy – I speak fluent German and actually pretended not to for the sake of not being obnoxiously snobby – but it’s done with affection.

        Depending on what else you want to do, the tour’s manageable in a long day from Munich, but there’s enough in Salzburg for a few days too.

  2. This skirt

    I really like the floral skirt and matchy top (the blackground looks like blue to me, which I love).

    But neoprene? Isn’t that a bit . . . not office-y of a material? Has anyone tried this IRL?

    • KT

      I think neoprene can be very office friendly, depending on the cut/color pattern.

      I have a fantastic black neoprene dress (with sleeves!) with a deep burgundy yoke, and it looks surprisingly elegant and polished. I love that it doesn’t wrinkle and kind of holds you win without being restrictive–it just smooths any lumps out.

    • Anonattorney

      I actually just bought this yesterday at the store. It’s okay for office, but on the casual side. It feels more like a close-knit sweatshirt material rather than scuba. It’s lightweight and has a surprisingly nice drape if you size up. I got the burgundy skirt (pictured) for work and the heather grey for more casual weekend wear.

    • Constant Reader

      I have a classiques entier suit that is very smooth and light weight neoprene. Pros: looks professional, doesn’t wrinkle easily, hides bumps. Cons: can be HOT.

      • Anonymous

        OMG being hot is a feature and not a bug

        I’m wearing fleece at my desk today to keep warm

      • Dulcinea

        The extra warm issue is why I’ve always stayed away from neoprene. First of all I generally warmer than average person. Second I work in an apparently rare office that does not crank the AC and it’s hot and humid and miserable. Ponte is too warm. Any recs for professional looking lightweight dresses/skirts that are made if woven ( not knit) material? Bonus points for sleeves (short sleeves)!

        • Anonymous

          Not a clothes recommendation, but my office is warm than average and I’m definitely a usually hot versus usually cold person, and I just got a fan for my office and it’s such a game changer. I seriously put off getting one for a year because I didn’t think it would help much but I love it!

  3. LondonLeisureYear

    Looking for some new recipes for my repertoire. What are your best potluck sides/meals/desserts?
    Bonus points if they are:
    -easy to transport
    -will not go bad if it is not refrigerated for an hour or two
    -vegetarian
    -healthy (i.e. not tater tot hot dish)
    -delicious

    I will post some of mine in the comments.

    • Anonymous

      Pesto deviled eggs with crispy prosciutto on top
      Ratatouille (like, as it was served in the movie – there is a great recipe online for “ratatouille’s ratatouille” instead of the traditional stew)

      • Anon in NYC

        Try Smitten Kitchen’s ratatouille! It’s amazing. Plus we top it with lots of dill goat cheese.

    • KT

      Chocolate covered strawberries and other fruits like bananas and pineapple are my default. I usually freeze them if I’m going to an outdoor party, so by the time I get there and people start eating, they’re just thawed and still cold and delicious. If I’m feeling fancy, I’ll roll them in nuts, sea salt, etc.

    • LondonLeisureYear

      Salads:
      Smitten Kitchen:
      -butternut salad with farro and pepitas
      -carrot salad with tahini and crisped chickpeas

      Budget Bytes:
      -Cabbage and Cranberry Salad

      Kalyn’s Kitchen:
      -Wake-Up-Your-Mouth Thai Cucumber Salad
      -Thai-Style Spicy Cabbage Slaw with Mint and Cilantro

      Desserts:
      Martha Stewart’s banana bread recipe made into muffin tins: if you don’t have sour cream just use plain yogurt or greek yogurt. If you want to use vanilla yogurt just don’t also add the vanilla extract

      Smitten Kitchen’s Grapefruit Yogurt Cake

      Lottie and Doof’s Scaled and Malted Milk Cake

      If you need a gluten free and dairy free dessert: Gluten-Free Goddess’s Nirvana Bars are fast and great and don’t require weird flours.

    • NYNY

      For a barbecue last summer, I made a delicious farro salad. It was an improv, but I’ll totally do it again. It contained:

      farro cooked in well-salted water, cooled on a baking sheet
      cucumbers
      lemon juice and zest
      toasted pine nuts
      tons of parsley, dill, and basil finely chopped
      scallions sliced thin
      olive oil, salt, and pepper

      It worked as a side with grilled things or a veggie main, and I got several recipe requests

    • Anonymous

      Are you looking for dips/apps too? Pea pesto served with carrots and/or pita chips. Just make sure to label it so people don’t think it’s guac. You can use either fresh or canned peas. Cook the peas, drop them in a food processor with a bunch of basil, salt, garlic, and parm (optional – add more salt if you’re not using parm), add in olive oil and a touch of water, and 30 seconds later you have your delicious, healthy, protein-packed dip.

    • X

      I’ve been making the Food Lab’s Creamy Broccoli Parmesan Soup.

      SERVES 6
      5 tablespoons unsalted butter
      1 medium onion, finely diced (about 1 cup)
      4 medium stalks celery, finely diced (about 1 cup)
      2 medium cloves garlic, minced or grated on a Microplane (about 2 teaspoons)
      3 tablespoons all-purpose flour
      2 cups milk
      2 cups homemade or low-sodium canned chicken stock or vegetable stock, plus more if necessary
      ¼ teaspoon baking soda
      12 cups broccoli florets, stems and stalks cut into 1-inch pieces (about 1 large head)
      3 ounces Parmigiano-Reggiano, grated
      2 tablespoons lemon juice (from 1 lemon)
      Kosher salt and freshly ground black pepper
      4 slices hearty white sandwich bread, crusts removed and cut into ½-inch dice

      1. Melt 3 tablespoons of the butter in a large Dutch oven or soup pot over medium-high heat. Add the onion, celery, and garlic and cook, stirring, until the vegetables are softened but not browned, about 5 minutes (reduce the heat if the butter begins to brown). Stir in anchovies, if using, and cook until fragrant, about 30 seconds.
      2. Add the flour and cook, stirring constantly, until all the flour is absorbed, about 30 seconds. Stirring constantly, slowly pour in the milk, followed by the stock. Stir in the baking soda and broccoli florets and bring to a boil, then reduce the heat to maintain a simmer, cover and cook, stirring occasionally, until the florets are completely tender and olive green about 20 minutes.
      3. Working in batches, transfer the mixture to a blender, add the Parmesan, and blend, starting on low speed and gradually increasing to high until completely smooth, about 1 minute; add additional stock or water to thin to the desired consistency (I like mine thick). Pass through a fine-mesh strainer into a clean pot. (Alternatively, use an immersion blender to puree soup directly in the original pot.) Whisk in the lemon juice and season the soup to taste with salt and pepper. Keep warm.
      4. Melt the remaining 2 tablespoons butter in a large nonstick skillet over medium-high heat. When the foaming subsides, add the bread cubes and cook, tossing frequently, until golden brown on all sides, about 6 minutes. Season to taste with salt and pepper.
      5. Serve the soup garnished with the croutons.

    • emeralds

      Baked ratatouille with whatever veggies are in season, served with crusty bread or over polenta, and vegan chili. I like Cookie and Kate’s veggie chili recipe the best.

      • emeralds

        Oh and a non-mayo-based pasta salad with sliced cherry tomatoes, red/orange/yellow pepper, and cucumber, in a white wine vinaigrette. I know you said you were looking for veggie recipes, but it’s also great with some canned tuna thrown in.

    • Sarabeth

      Lentil Salad from East Side Bride’s blog. Easily findable on google. I add lots of quinoa to stretch it out, and double the vinaigrette. Delicious and meets all your requirements – it’s also gluten free, and easy to make vegan if you remove the feta and add a few more olives to balance the salt.

    • PNW

      Great idea! I could use some fresh ideas, too!

      These are my potluck go-tos. None need refrigeration (ie, no mayo). All except fruit salad can be made in advance (all the quinoa recipes are actually better the next day).

      http://ohsheglows.com/2011/05/27/cilantro-lime-chickpea-salad-sweat-wicking-workout-wear/ But seriously cut back the lime.

      http://www.sheknows.com/food-and-recipes/articles/1002593/quinoa-black-bean-and-corn-salad-recipe replace vinegar with lime juice and cumin.

      coleslaw: shredded cabbage, shredded carrots, julienned apples, thinly sliced red onion, dressing of equal parts honey and apple cider vinegar. (if making ahead, keep dressing separate until ready to serve/bring).

      tabbouleh: made with quinoa and kale in place of bulger and parsley.

      fruit salad: add fresh mint to make it fancy (especially with watermelon or mixed melon).

    • Libby

      Ina Garten’s French Potato Salad! The recipe includes a little chicken broth, but you can use veggie broth. It is vinaigrette based, so can sit at room temperature for a while.

    • CMC

      NPR Grated Raw Beet Salad (scored points with the dietician, vegan, and Paleo eaters in our picnic group) (beware the stain factor, though)

      Cooking Light Nutty Edamame Spread (edamame hummus but with pesto-y flavors… really good)

      Bittman’s Super Simple Sorbet (frozen fruit + something sweet + something creamy + food processor = done)

      Popcorn w/ Old Bay Seasoning

      Banana chips

      Mixed Nuts

    • Min Donner

      The first time I made this, it was amazingly received at a potluck: http://www.thekitchn.com/recipe-spicy-chickpeas-with-cu-150758

      Since then, for whatever reason (damn you kitchen gods!), it’s never been as good as that first time I tried it.. but I think the ingredients are solid and even in its lesser adaptations it’s still very tasty, and it definitely always improves when it’s been in the fridge a while.

      Another crowd pleaser is a super simple old Pampered Chef bruschetta recipe that I started using as salsa years ago (serve with chips, or toss with pasta). Feel free to adjust proportions or add other ingredients, according to your taste.

      3-4 tomatos – diced
      1 can black olives – diced or chopped
      1 small jar marinated artichoke hearts – drain the oil/juice, but reserve and add as needed at the end
      1 red onion – diced
      handful of fresh basil – shredded/chopped (in my opinion you can never have too much basil)
      1-2 cloves garlic – pressed/chopped (optional: my mom hates garlic, if she’s not there I use it)
      salt/pepper to taste

      It’s remarkably simple, but really tasty and a slight change from salsas that use cilantro and lime.

  4. Anonymous

    This is probably a stupid question, but I scuba dive and don’t think I’ve touched any non-wetsuit neoprene garment before. How thick is the neoprene for something like this? Does it feel like a wetsuit? Does it look like neoprene from a distance? because that just seems to me like a really weird fabric to make clothing out of. Although I suspect it doesn’t wrinkle too badly, at least!

    • Anonattorney

      I actually had no idea this was “neoprene” when I bought it in the store – it felt more like ponte or a thicker jersey. It’s not like wetsuit material at all. Not too thick – enough so that it masks underwear lines, but not constricting at all. A nice weight for all seasons, in my opinion.

    • Anon

      I’m not really into the neoprene trend. It just looks….awkward. I’ve seen a couple of dresses that I love the color/shape of, but the neoprene just makes them look like they’re from Project Runway. A good outfit off of PR, but still something where they had to make a cute outfit out of neoprene.

      that being said, this skirt looks cute.

  5. Anon

    After the most recent attack in Nice and the feeling that it just never stops…

    …do you ladies think that the world is more dangerous now than it used to be, or does the media make it feel that way? I don’t remember feeling this way when I was growing up in the ’90s, but I was also a kid living in a middle-class bubble.

    I know terrible things have always happened. Wars, genocides, terrorism, dictators. Was I just naive growing up? I used to feel this vague sense of safety, like the threats were always far away.

    I recognize that this post makes me seem naive and sheltered, discovering at 37 that the world is a terrible place. Just wanted to hear what others think.

    • KT

      I think it’s always been there, but now with personal phones and cameras, we get a firsthand view of what it’s like to get shot, be in the midst of a bombing or dealing with a madman. It makes it much more personal.

    • Cb

      I think it’s the news cycle – we hear about things that we historically wouldn’t be aware of.

      I remember when I was a kid in the 1990s (in a similar middle class bubble) being really afraid of kidnapping b/c of a few high profile cases. But statistically, stranger kidnappings are really rare, as are the risks of being killed in a terrorist attack or a plane crash.

      I think we as a society have to find a balance between awareness (so we can improve things) and this tragedy p-word that we can’t use here.

      • Blonde Lawyer

        My younger brother wouldn’t sleep with his 2nd story windows open for an entire summer following the press coverage on the Elizabeth Smart kidnapping. Kids pick up so much from the media.

        I also think that press ethics have loosened some in a way that I don’t agree with. That or with the advent of digital photography it is easier to get a really sad gory photo. I wrote an op-ed to my local paper after Sandy Hook when they published pictures of scared crying school children. I don’t think that should be published.

        There is a story today in my local news about something bad that happened to a dog. The dog survived so in the end it’s a good story but they have a very sad gory picture up of the “before.” I haven’t seen it because I was warned to not read the news today — which means I’m staying off social media too. There is a lot of outrage that the story could have been told with the happy ending picture and people could use their imaginations for the before. No one wants to see that.

        Lastly, it’s a lot harder to avoid the news now. If you were sick of hearing about it, you just didn’t turn to channel 7 and 6 for example. Now you are bombarded with it online and with constant mobile updates and on screens in waiting rooms.

        I’ve mentioned before that I was at the Boston bombing and part of trying to get over that was avoiding media coverage during certain times like the one year anniversary. It was incredibly hard. No matter how hard I tried, it was there. I was at a business lunch and happened to look over at the bar and they had the news on, replaying for the millionth time the explosions. I managed to not look back over there for the rest of my lunch but it was amazing how hard it was to avoid. Even my doctors office has a giant tv in the waiting area that plays MSNBC or something all day.

        • Cb

          Yes, definitely. My grandma always had the radio on (I can pretty much do the local bay area radio weather report) and I think stuff just sunk in as a kid. I went through this phase where I was convinced I had accidentally consumed bug poison and was going to die. It must have been a story on the news – it was supposed to crystallize in your stomach?

          Huge impact on a kid but also a big impact on adults – how much of that stress and turmoil is seeping in? My husband has BBC alerts on his phone which drives me bonkers – another ministerial resignation is not ‘breaking news’ and I don’t need to know / process it right this second.

        • Anonymous

          I was also at the Boston bombing (and lived, at the time, less than a quarter mile from the bombing sites). In a way that I really wasn’t expecting, every time something like Paris and Nice happen, I get very shaken all over again. Of course, my chances of being at any terrorist act are small. But it’s happened to me before. And I’ve lived in Paris (and been to the Bataclan) and I’ve traveled to Nice.

          I don’t know what it says about me that I take things like this so personally, but like you, I really have to disengage because I’ve seen the carnage live after something like this. I don’t need to see the pictures of it elsewhere.

        • Sydney Bristow

          It is so hard to avoid the news. I gradually stopped watching/reading the news over the past year but about a month ago I realized I really couldn’t escape it while staying on social media. I didn’t delete my accounts but I did remove the apps and am doing a social media fast. I don’t miss it as much as I expected.

          Just working in an office and having my husband who does follow the news of the day around means I don’t feel like I’m missing anything major. I think it’s done a fair bit of good for my emotional health.

        • Catlady

          This type of news cycle is eroding what we librarians call Information Literacy, which is basically being able to differentiate the quality of various types of information. Some information is good to know and have, and some is pointless. The more information that is out there, the less there is worth consuming.

    • Canadienne

      Lots of places are significantly less dangerous than they used to be. I frequently pull of crime stats for my city/country to prove that the media uses fear mongering. Where I live violent crime (the stuff scary TV specials are made of) is down 60% in the past 30 years. But even showing people the data they don’t believe me.

    • Anonymous

      I think these types of terror attacks in Western countries weren’t a “thing” when you were growing up if you were growing up in the 90s.

        • Anonymous

          +1. Mid-30’s here and hijackings were the big thing I remember, and these are a form of terror. And the IRA.

      • Anonymous

        maybe not as much in the 1990s but certainly very much so in 1970s and 1980s.

        Oklahoma City, IRA in London etc, various groups in Western Europe

          • Anonymous

            The first attack on the World Trade Center was 1993. The shooting of a number of CIA agents outside the CIA was 1993. Oklahoma City was 1995. The Centennial Park bombing at the Olympics was 1996. There were also shootings of people in Brooklyn and at the top of the Empire State building targeting Jews and in retaliation for the US position on Israel.

            I’m sure there are more, but those immediately come to mind, as someone who grew up in the 90s.

          • Anon at 10:26

            @Anon at 10:52

            Maybe try to be a little less willfully ignorant. I read your post specifying the 1990s which is why I cited events occurring in the 1990s.

            If you’re so dense and so unfamiliar with recent history that you need specific years cited for you as Anon at 11:05 so generously did, you really need to educate yourself a bit better before making comments. Many people died in the Western world from terrorism in the 1990s, if you’re ignorant of that, that’s no one’s fault but your own.

      • ALX emily

        Not “these types” really but I was born in 1985 and remember a lot of talk about domestic issues like McVeigh, Waco, Ruby Ridge that weren’t all necessarily “terrorism” but equally scary to an elementary/middle schooler.

          • ALX emily

            For sure! But not all of the scary domestic news of the 90s was. But then again my dad thinks the Clintons killed Vince Foster so my household paid a lot more attention to the Waco-type news than other people might have…

    • Faye

      We live in a 24/7 news world. Small things that wouldn’t have been mentioned on the 7 or 11pm news back in the early 90s are now obsessed over, in “breaking news!” level hysteria, for hours on end. Articles are posted and reposted on Facebook with inflamatory bents, and rehashed into minutia. Add to that our “pics or it didn’t happen” where we now see things firsthand, and it feels like each attack is personal and brutal and relentless.

      We’re much more addicted to news. It’s seen as a failing if you don’t know what happened at 3am last night by the time you walk into the office. People sit for HOURS watching for updates on stories, when they used to just wait until the 11pm news to get the day’s summary. Or hell, they would wait until Sunday night and 60 minutes to get a digest of the week.

      It’s unhealthy and I have to imagine there are going to be some long term effects of this weird world we’re in.

      • Betty

        Its taken me a while to get to a position where I realize that I am not a bad person for deciding that I do not need to know all the details and also that I do not need to personally take on or “hold” the heartache for each event.

    • AIMS

      The world has always been dangerous. It’s just that the dangers change. In the 90s, I remember there was a lot of fear of school shootings. Now it’s some disaffected loser running down innocent people with a truck. When my mom was growing up she was petrified of the atomic bomb and there were bomb shelters and drills everywhere. If you look at crime statistics, people in the US and many western countries have never been safer in many respects. OTH, we have to worry about things we never really worried before.

      I think I’ve gotten a bit numb to it all but what happened in Nice has really gotten to me. I’m not sure why but it feels particularly hopeless this time. I also can’t see the way out and depressingly this feels like just the beginning of more terrible things, with all the wrong lessons being taken away for political gain. But maybe not. Maybe it will pass like all the other terrible things in the world eventually pass before something new comes to take its place.

      • Cat

        AIMS, I feel the same way. Obviously all of these terrorist attacks kill and injure innocent people and are absolutely horrific. But something about driving a truck through a crowd of celebrating families — knowing and seeing with your own eyes, from a few feet away, those who you are RUNNING OVER — feels especially and unbelievably heartless and hopeless. I am at a complete loss.

      • anon

        That’s an interesting point about the drills. My parents did bomb drills in school, now kids have active shooter drills. The thought of either being called into action is scary.

    • Anonymous

      I think the news cycle, social media, and the push for first-hand accounts/images of everything is quite a bit to blame. I’m blanking on the podcast (Radiolab, maybe?) that I listened to about “why we follow the news,” and the conclusion was basically… Entertainment. We tell ourselves we’re becoming “more informed citizens” etc, but hearing about individual tragedies in graphic detail isn’t meeting that objective, it’s more like watching a scary movie.

      My main memory of 9/11 (I was in college at the time) is taking my homework to the middle of the quad and sitting there for the rest of the day. There was literally no other way to avoid the news coverage, which was an endless rehashing of what we don’t know and clips of the towers falling and the jumpers, than to sit somewhere away from any outlets. Every TV in the dorms, dining hall, and academic buildings was on, and extras had been wheeled in to places where there wasn’t normally a TV. I needed to know 9/11 happened. I did NOT need to listen to endless speculation from people who really didn’t know any more about it than I did, or be bombarded with the images. That was the event that really broke news coverage for me; I have hated it ever since.

      The focus on tragedy is toxic. I visit the NYT homepage and that of my local paper once a day and scan the headlines, but I really try not to read any more than I need to in order to understand what’s going on in the world/my community. Going down a “read about the victims” / “‘There was blood everywhere'” rabbit hole is really upsetting to me and literally serves no useful purpose. I loathe the clickbait sidebars of something terrible that happened to an individual person or family and avoid those as much as possible, but just the headlines still stick with me. I am glad there are monuments/museums to past tragedies set up for more immersive experiences if people want to seek them out and reflect, but sensationalizing it in soundbites and images on the news/internet just strikes me as inappropriate and disrespectful to victims.

      • Anon for this

        Anonymous @ 10:41, I couldn’t agree with you more. I live and work in downtown DC, spend a lot of time traveling in other large metropolitan areas, and haven’t lost any sleep over the terrorist attacks in the past 15 years. Yes, it’s terrible. But the world is a huge place and horrible things are happening constantly. I agree with Betty above that I do not feel the need to personally take on or “hold” the heartache for each event.

        That doesn’t mean that I don’t care that horrible things are happening. But I don’t show my caring by obsessively following the news. I stopped looking at any news about the Syrian refugees because it was so disturbing. Instead, I started contributing money to an organization providing refugee aid. I don’t follow the news on terrorist attacks. But I make sure I vote for politicians who have foreign policy approaches that I hope will reduce the likelihood of future attacks. I don’t follow all the different ways in which women’s reproductive rights are being attacked. But I give money to Planned Parenthood.

        This is all just to say that I think focusing on DOING SOMETHING as opposed to just BEING AWARE is a much more effective approach to dealing with outrage and anxiety, as opposed to obsessively following the news, hand-wringing, and posting on message boards about the hopelessness of it all…

      • Meg Murry

        The podcast was Freakonmonics, from 6/15/16. I haven’t listened to it yet, but it’s in my queue, and I 100% agree with the premise that listening to the news is a form of keeping up with gossip.

        I especially hate the 24 hour news channels for this – they spend so much time immediately after a tragedy speculating and repeating, because they don’t really know what’s happened yet. I’ve tried to stop myself from looking at the news when it is so fresh, because so often the earliest reports are wrong/mistaken in some way, and me constantly hitting “refresh” on CNN or wherever is just fueling the “just keep throwing whatever we have out there” fire.

        Am I horrified by what happened in Nice (and in Paris, and in Dallas, and to Alton Sterling and Castile, etc)? Yes, absolutely. But I can’t keep reading about it 24/7, it will just make me anxious or angry and won’t actually help anything or anyone.

        • Pound

          I agree with this statement. News has become a product and sadly, fear and horror “sell”. I don’t think the content of news has changed greatly but rather the way it’s presented. The only way to express displeasure with companies that “sell” news in a sensationalist way is to not give them your readership or “business” which translates to money. I read the economist online and the guardian. They aren’t perfect but they are better than many.

    • TBK

      Violence is at historic lows. Homicides have been trending down for decades (with I think a slight upward tick recently, but still below certainly 1980s levels). The world is far, far safer than it’s ever been.

    • newsie

      I’ve been really intrigued by this discussion as someone with a news background. I feel deeply affected by the tragedies that are reported but feel very much it is our responsibility as global citizens to be informed. How can you vote on a candidate (presidential, for example) without understanding what is going on in the world, knowing that modern politics are on a global scale? And not just war and violence but to be informed of famine, natural disasters, political movements, etc. and to be grateful to be so informed, given that there are many places without (either by news blackout like North Korea or by inability like in the poorest of locations). It feels like a waste of privilege to willfully not be informed of what is going on and how other humans are affected in this world.

      As for graphic images, I think looking at European news might offer a nuanced perspective. Evening news will regularly show blood on a sidewalk of a local death for example whereas in the US the blood is always minimized or not shown at all – it will show a phot of the person or a landscape-style photo of the scene.
      (You’ll even see b0*bs in the newsstand!) I’m not arguing for more blood, but I want to point out perspective. I don’t think Europeans are more jaded or numbed to violence than Americans are, either. I think their news ethics standards, however, are more along the lines of: this happened and you need to know about it – and yeah, if it’s a death, that’s not ‘light news’ and maybe they show it for viewers to understand the gravity.

      Understandably, certain events will be triggering for some, so if you were a part of a violent act, seeing it replayed — in any way, with or without blood — will of course be terrible. I understand that.

      However, for everyone else, I worry if mass-scale acts of violence, terror, and death are never reported about if anything will ever change.

      And no, I don’t think the world is more dangerous. I just think it appears more dangerous to Westerners.

      • Faye

        Thanks for your perspective.

        But I disagree that seeing the blood on the sidewalk makes you a more informed citizen, or helps inform your vote. 12 hours of “now 77! now 78! now 80! DEAD! now here’s footage of a survivor clearly in shock with a microphone in her face! comment eloquently on your feelings, survivor! how does it feel to watch your child be mown down in front of you? here’s the video in case you haven’t seen it!” is NOT helpful, not informative, and completely disrepectful of humanity in my eyes.

        I can understand global politics without watching victims being exploited for sensationalistic news. A measured dialogue based on facts would be helpful. What I described above (which was on CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, and other stations just last night) is not doing anything but driving up ratings and ad revenue.

        • newsie

          Oh, no, I wasn’t advocating for blood on the sidewalk either. I was pointing out that by comparison, the Euro news shows – by news definition – more gore. (Separate and distinct from a wider shot of the scene of, say, plane wreckage site to inform which most US news outlets will not consider ‘gore’ or sensationalism but rather news you need to know.) I am advocating, however, that all these intelligent, working women on this board not totally shut off from the news and what is happening in the world. It’s important for us to be informed.

          Maybe the way to do that is to shut off CNN and 24-hr news and opt for reading it instead. (You will not be bombarded with already disturbing imagery even moreso because it is now on loop. But rather one still image as part of a story written and edited with a bit more time and judgment.) I think my opinion must be related to my news consumption. I never watch 24-hr news channels because yeah, they have to fill the time, so will have people word-vomiting nonstop with horrific b-roll playing on loop in the back and they will actually follow the old ‘if it bleeds, it leads.’ I have worked both in print and broadcast.

          All I’m saying is please, ladies, don’t shut off. Choose a way to consume the news that suits you because it is so important to be informed of our world.

        • newsie

          Also one more thing as to interviewing witnesses — that is the job of the beat reporter at the scene. It is the very basis not just of journalism but of storytelling to not just tell you “a bombing happened” but to paint the scene. Who, what, where, when, why, how. Do you want to live in a world where the NYT has judged the Nice bombing, for example, not to be front-page news? It may upset you to see the victim number to climb higher but those numbers mean something to the people affected and the people who pick up the pieces afterwards.

          If I could pinpoint what bothers me is that we already complain and are desensitized to news that happens to people who look like us, live like us, and often live right next to us. There is a deafening silence in non-Western parts of the world on these news stories and if people already shut down what is local and affects them, they definitely won’t care about what’s happening to ‘foreigners’ living lives completely different from their own. That’s the difference between living in 2016 and 1816. We are citizens of the world and the news is how we understand how people live. Consider how many didn’t believe the horrors of the Holocaust or the realities of Boko Haram without seeing it. (Confining immersive news of major events to a museum like someone suggested limits information only to a privileged few.) News becomes history and the history is all of ours. Consider, too, why certain governments limit news and freedom of information to their people. Would the migrant crisis be on the radar if not for the images of thousands of people risking their lives for a safer world. Shutting off and living in your bubble will not help you understand those lives of your contemporaries.

      • Anonymous

        I’m the anon above at 10:41 and I see a big distinction between being aware of a large-scale natural disaster, or that there is a civil war in Syria and terrible things are happening there, or that Venezuela is on the verge of becoming a failed state, or that Donald Trump is a stark-raving bigot, or that the Supreme Court made a landmark decision on women’s reproductive rights, etc etc and having consumed 20 emotionally-charged stories about the exact same event from various media. So much news coverage is high on drama and light on facts; it’s not designed to inform, it’s designed to be flashy and fill up time and space. There’s value in examining different angles of an event, but making a new 40-point font headline with every eye-witness quote to come out of a tragedy is not doing that. Nor is trotting out an “expert” to speculate wildly before sufficient facts have come to light. It’s fear-mongering and sensationalizing to drive ratings.

        I absolutely agree we should be informed citizens of t he world. I just don’t think that the current media climate has that primary goal, and consequently our perspective is a little off. “Serious journalism” is not consumed and rewarded in the mainstream the way that I feel like it used to be, for a whole lot of macro reasons, and that has probably driven a lot of the shift.

        • Anon for this

          This.

          I lived in France for a long time. I do not currently live in France. I heard the news on NPR yesterday, switched to French news for about 20 minutes, and then I was home and no more news for the rest of the night. I don’t need to know whether the perpetrator was Maghreb-born or French-born of Maghreb descent because I don’t consider it to be relevant. I don’t need to know what his apartment looked like. I don’t need to know if he owned the truck or stole the truck. I don’t need to listen to interviews of people describing the terror of the moment, because HOW COULD IT NOT BE FILLED WITH TERROR?!?!

          I need the facts that are salient. I don’t need sensationalism.

    • Em

      Is it weird that this thread has been unbelievably comforting for me? I just had a kid and have reached near panic-attack levels recently with all the horrible stuff in the news. It’s nice to step back and objectively realize that he is actually probably a lot safer than I was at his age.

      • TBK

        I understand that. But I’ll warn you, once you have a child, every child in the news is your child and every mother is you. For me, at least, it’s painful in a way it never was before my children were born.

        • Spirograph

          So true. I have a very visceral reaction to stories about kids being harmed, witness to tragedy, or in danger. I make a huge effort to avoid these types of stories, but every so often I just can’t look away and I always, always regret it.

    • anon for this

      I agree that part of it is the news cycle and generally what we’re afraid of. But I also think that part of it is that many of us are more connected to other parts of the world in a globalized economy. The truck incident in Nice, or bombings in Istanbul, for example, hit me in a way the embassy bombings in the 90s would not have because I’ve been to Nice, and my husband flew through Istanbul a week before the airport bombings, and a coworker flew out of Istanbul within minutes of the bombings (he didn’t learn about them until his plane landed in the U.S.). Everything just seems closer.

      On the other hand, I recognize that statistically, being at or the direct victim of a terrorist event is unlikely. I recently argued with my MIL about how stressed she was about my husband traveling to Lebanon with his sister to visit family. She was particularly upset that they took the same plane because if it crashed, she wouldn’t have any children left. We happened to be at the beach about 4 hours away from our hometown at the time, and my husband and his sister were planning to drive over and join us after work that night. So, in the heat of the argument, I pointed out that they were more likely to die driving in the same car together for 4 hours at night (and through a storm) than they were to be in a plane crash. I think that’s true, but I don’t think it helped my MIL feel better. And honestly, when there was a bombing at the Istanbul airport later that week, I was pretty shaken in a way that I’m not when I hear about a car accident.

  6. Big Comfy Couch

    Hi Hive – please tell me about your big comfy couches! I’m about to move into my first apartment ever that will be able to accommodate a “normal” (as opposed to condo sized) couch. My current pieces look great and are fine for a dignified chat with friends across the coffee table, but I wouldn’t curl up/nap/enjoy watching TV on either of them.

    If you have a great couch, where’d you get it? I’ve read endless blogs but am interested to know how the recommended couches hold up and I’m not finding a lot of that information. Comfort is my priority over style (ie. I’m not looking for something ultra modern).

    • Veronica Mars

      Depends on your budget. I love Room and Board and Arhaus as my aspirational furniture brands (and my craigslist alerts). Costco also has nice furniture, but I’m not sure how to test before purchasing. I’d also say that I am a huge, huge fan of sectionals with a chaise lounge over a plain straight couch. The chaise section is perfect for reading/napping/sipping wine with a cozy blanket.

      • Anonymous

        I spent so much money on my Room +Board couch. I too have a tiny condo.

        So worth it! I love my couch! I’m keeping this thing until I’m 80. I have the Metro sectional in the micro-suede. It’s so beautiful!

        • Veronica Mars

          Ooh I just looked it up, how beautiful! and I could get it with a chaise! Wow. Ok. Once I have the money/space I’ll have to come back to it.

    • LondonLeisureYear

      Where do you live? I found a local place when living in Palo Alto, California called Home Plate Furnishings, found it off yelp reviews, seriously a hole in the wall place. However, we got a totally custom made, super comfortable couch, delivered to our door for $700 bucks. We picked the dimensions of everything from the height off the ground, the width of the arm rests, the width of the seats, the fabric, the level of cushioning. It was a hilarious place because you went there and they just had a few example couches so you could touch the fabric and feel the cushion fluff but besides that just a huge table of other place’s catalogs (pottery barn, Restoration hardware, etc) so you just looked through there, told them what you wanted and they made it. I just always suggest that people look outside the main options but you can find some really good deals.

    • anon

      Cushion composition makes a big difference in comfort. Look for cushions that have a down component to them, like down wrapped cushions. You’ll pay a little more and need to plump them some, but the difference is noticeable.

    • tesyaa

      I have an amazingly comfortable (and large) sectional that I bought from Costco almost 2 years ago. It’s holding up well to my family’s heavy use. Only thing I don’t like is the back cushions, which are sort of loose and floppy as opposed to firm foam. They are comfortable but lose their shape easily and don’t look as attractive as I would like. But I love the fabric and comfort so much I’d probably still buy it.

    • blue

      I have an Ethan Allen couch with a chaise sectional add-on that has held up nicely. They’re pricy, but you can wait for a 20% off sale, which brought mine down to Crate & Barrel-esque prices.

    • Anonymous

      I almost bought the Oasis sofa from Crate & Barrel (not sure if they still make it, but it was like sitting on a cloud), but ended up with one from Room & Board. I am happy with that one – I’ve spilled so much wine on it, and the microfiber still looks like new.

      • nutella

        +1 billion to Room and Board, their sectionals, and their microfiber. I have had mine for 7-8 years? You wipe away smudges with a damp microfiber cloth and probably once a year I take the covers off and pop them in the washer.

        • WestCoast Lawyer

          Room & Board is awesome and has excellent customer service. The mechanism on our sleeper couch broke and they sent someone out to fix it right away at little or no cost (I don’t remember).

    • AIMS

      Not sure where you are but I went to abc home and carpet and sat on a bunch of couches, waited till the one I liked went on sale and bought it. Very happy with it 2 years later.
      I am also a big fan of restoration hardware couches. If money and space were not an issue I would get one of their giant plush couches – they’re heavenly.

    • Betty

      I would steer clear of Restoration Hardware. I found their couches to be very comfy but mine looked run down about a year in (and continues to look that way 7 years later). We weren’t that hard on the couch (pre-kids) but the middle started to sag quickly and the slip covers show everything.

      • Betty

        And in my post-biglaw with kids phase of life, there is no way I would spend that much one a couch now!

      • RH leather couches???

        What about their leather couches?

        My current ones are ~15 years old and are being exiled to the den. I’d like to replace with RH leather ones (chesterfield style), but expect them to last just as long. They are already distresed. Can anyone vouch or review?

        If not leather from RH, where is it better from?

      • Aunt Jamesina

        My aunt has had two RH couches (one cloth, one leather) and said she’ll never purchase another again after they both looked extremely worn in a short period of time. My two friends with C&B couches have said the same. I think Crate and Barrel, Pottery Barn, and Restoration Hardware like to sell an image of being upper-mid range to upscale and tend to use better designs than a lot of mid-range furniture companies, but generally use middling materials and processes that they then mark up.

        In my opinion, you’re better off looking for local furniture stores or true higher-end chains. I’ve been extremely happy with my (second-hand) Room & Board pieces FWIW. We also bought a sectional made in Oregon by Stanton Sofas for around $1400 and the craftsmanship was far nicer than other sectionals we saw in that price range– down-wrapped cushions, etc. You’d have to search for a furniture store that sells them.

      • nylon girl

        I got our leather couches from Costco and have been very happy with them. 3 kids and 2 years later, they still look brand new. Very affordable. It was weird ordering them without seeing them in the stores, but we are very happy with them.

    • Anonymous

      How long will you be in this apartment? If you’re going to move within 3-5 years, I’d recommend going cheap(er) at one of the big chain furniture stores. In Boston, I’d suggest Jordan’s or Boston Interiors. Their couches don’t necessarily hold up for a decade but they are comfortable, and you won’t feel horrible if they don’t fit in the new place because they’re not very expensive. If you’re ready for something longer term, I love our Room and Board sectional and chair.

    • Anonymous

      I helped a friend do an extensive amount of couch shopping two years ago and he ended up with the Axis II from Crate and Barrel. The big thing for finding a “comfy” couch for him was the extra cushion depth, so look for that!

    • Midwesterner

      This was me two years ago and I think I sat on every couch at Room and Board, Arhaus, Crate and Barrel etc. and thought they were all uncomfortable in some way. I didn’t want something too firm, and I also didn’t want something that you sink into and can’t get up out of. I ended up buying a custom couch from Sherrill Furniture (check their website – showrooms/vendors all over the place and couches are made in the USA). It was actually cheaper than a couch from Arhaus or Room & Board and it’s super comfy and very, very well made.

  7. Incognito Regular

    As the name suggests I’m a regular going anon for this. How do you lose a small amount of weight? Most diets seem to be geared at large amounts of weight loss. I need to drop about 7-10 lbs which would move me from a 2/4 to a zero. I already dont eat meat or drink sofa or alcohol. I eat a diet of veggies, whole grains, and beans/legumes. I limit extras like sauces and oils. Plus the gym 4 days a week lifting heavy (I squat and deadlift well over my body weight.) I also drink coffee and tea black and my only other drink is water, so no hidden calories there. I’m mid 20s too which means menopause ect aren’t factors either.

    • LondonLeisureYear

      Why do you need to lose the weight? You sound healthy. Enjoy life!

      • Anonymous

        I agree, you sound very healthy, but if you want to lose weight maybe do some cardio? I think that’s better for losing weight than lifting.

        • Huh?

          What? That’s like the exact opposite of what I’ve been told. Lifting build muscles, which ups metabolism since muscles uses energy even while at rest. Cardio strengths the hearts (which is good), but won’t do much for weight-loss, unless you do a ton of it.

          • Anonymous

            The best thing is obviously to do both. Lift to build muscle so that when you do your cardio (and even when you’re resting) you burn calories at a faster rate than a person with less muscle would. But OP said she’s already doing a lot of weights, which is why I just suggested cardio. Per minute, cardio definitely burns more calories than lifting, and at a fundamental level, weight loss is about calories in vs. calories out. Cardio is also really good for reducing stress hormones, which can lead to weight gain, especially around the midsection.

          • Anonymous

            Cardio burns more calories when you’re actually doing the exercise, lifting helps your body to increase the number of calories it naturally burns. So, if you ate a whole birthday cake and washed it down with 2 bottles of wine last night because you just turned 30 and are spending yet another birthday foreveralone, you need to get yourself on a treadmill for the next couple of days. But if you’re 5′ nothing and want to be able to eat more than 1200 calories/day and maintain your weight, you need to lift.

    • Former intern

      I would start by thinking about why you feel you need to lose this weight – if the true goal is weight loss, sounds like you are doing everything right so this may be just where your body is at in this phase of life and the only way you coukd lose weight is through unhealthy behaviors like not eating. I hope that isn’t worth it to you to drop a size. If the goal is to look leaner then maybe more yoga and less lifting? But if you enjoy your workouts and have a healthy diet then I encourage you to pay yourself on the back and just keep doing what you are doing!

      • Ellen

        Yay! Fruegel Friday’s! I love Fruegel Friday’s, but isn’t neoprene some kind of rubber? Who want’s to wear a rubber dress? FOOEY! As for the OP, I agree with Former Intern. Unless you have spot locations to work on, like me and my tuchus, if you are doeing all that you are doeing, and are still a size 2-4, why bother goeing down to size 0? You do so many thing’s right, and you are in your 20’s, so don’t do to much. When you get into your 30’s and your metabolizm slows down, THEN start workeing to keep your tuchus in check and later when your arms get flabbey, THAT is the time for more weight’s. For now, enjoy your youth, find a guy to MARRY you, and then start your project to avoid execss weight. YAY!!!

    • Anon

      The methods for big and small weight loss are the same – you may just be at the right weight for your body so can’t keep dropping unless you stop eating altogether

    • LAnon

      Honestly, I would say that you consult a personal trainer or a nutritionist. I think to lose weight when you are already quite slender and have a healthy diet will require someone to tailor a plan for you that is meticulous in terms of portion sizes and macros.

      You could also consider checking out some of the reddit forums on body-builders who are cutting weight. You’d of course want to take that advice with a grain of salt since some of it is unhealthy.

      Also, if you do a lot of weight-lifting, it’s possible that a 2/4 is the smallest you’ll be without losing muscle, so you may want to consider if it’s worth it to you to let some of the muscle go into order to lose the weight. Do you know your body fat percentage? If it’s already low, then you’d have to lose muscle in order to lose weight.

    • Anonymous

      Patience? If you eat healthily and have a good exercise routine, you just have to wait to see if you will gradually lose, or accept that perhaps you’ll never be a size 0 and are fine the way you are.

    • Catlady

      Try counting macros or a meal plan like Renaissance Periodization. I lost a lot of fat doing RP while my lifts went up.

      • Midwest Mama

        I agree with counting macros. Try the website IIFYM dot com to calculate your daily macros and then start tracking your food. It’s a bit time consuming but easier if you use an app like my fitness pal or such. I track macros when I want to keep eating how I normally eat, which is generally healthy, but tighten it up a bit when my clothes start to feel tight.

    • (Former) Clueless Summer

      If you don’t eat meat, this might be tough (they do have a vegetarian plan) but you might benefit from a whole30 – it’s not meant specifically for weight loss (although weight loss is a side effect for almost all) but it will give you a “nutritional reset” and definitely help you curb any bad habits because you literally have to read every single ingredient on everything ever. It doesn’t sound like you actually have any bad habits, but still…It sounds like you don’t eat much fat and fyi, good fat is good for you. It might help to follow a different meal template for a while to see how eating more fat/protein and less grains helps.

      Also, maybe your body is naturally meant to be a 4?

    • Anonymous

      Anorexia? Isn’t that usually the choice of people with messed up disordered thinking about their bodies who are already eating restrictive diets?

      Or you could try therapy to figure out why you need to lose 7 lbs so badly.

      • Regular Poster, Anon for thissss.

        Agreed. The fattest I’ve ever felt was when I weighed 102 lbs. as an adult. You know why? It’s not because I was fat. It was because I was mentally unhealthy and my ideal weight was 98. I was SO CLOSE to my ideal weight. I just had to get down to a zero. Because in my mind, zero was perfect. And anything less than perfect was failure.

        Well, I’m a good solid 15 lbs heavier than that these days. And I am happy and healthy. I don’t ever feel fat anymore, even though I wear a size 8 in pants (which in my disordered mind, I would have considered insanely large– I dont think about it that way anymore, though, obviously). I just don’t care, and I am so much more relaxed and healthy. Seriously, go to therapy. You don’t have to be this stressed and unhappy about your tiny body.

        • emeralds

          TRIGGER WARNING FOR ED AND SPECIFIC WEIGHT NUMBERS.

          OP, please do some work with yourself or with a therapist to figure out why you feel like you “need” to lose this weight, even though it sounds like you’re already at a healthy weight, eating a healthy (if not downright restrictive) diet, and have a regular exercise routine. What hole in your life are you hoping that losing those 7-10 pounds will fill?

          I don’t usually post weight numbers because of triggering, but OP, you are really striking a chord because I could have been you…right when I was teetering on the brink of the worst period of my life. I started off exactly where you are right now: a 2/4 weighing ~110-115, but I was convinced that losing 7-10 pounds would solve all of my problems, and finally–finally!–make me feel good about myself and my body. I got down to a low of 101 by starving myself and exercise bulimia, which it sounds like is what you would need to do to lose weight from where you are now. 101-105 was the fattest and most horrible that I have ever felt in my entire life. It was not a healthy weight for me, either physically (my hair started to fall out) or mentally. I had, and still do have (although I know how to tune out the ED brain-weasels now), an illness that horribly skewed the way that I felt about and perceived my body. Losing those 7-10 pounds did not make me feel good about myself: it made me feel the worst, the most alone, the most depressed, I have ever felt. ED lies. Happiness is always going to be 7-10 pounds lighter and you will never, ever get there, because the sickness will make sure that your goal posts always move.

          I am begging you, please talk to a therapist RIGHT NOW if anything that Regular Poster, Anon for thissss. or I wrote sounds like something you are feeling or experiencing.

      • Dahlia

        I think a lot of people are reading a lot of their personal experience into this.

        Everyone has a different ideal weight and appearance and its perfectly ok to be happiest at a size 0 if thats where you like to sit and you are doing it in a healthy way (as it sounds like this OP is doing).

        When I have a stressful or busy period at work and I put on 5-10 lbs, and I don’t like how I look, I work to take it off. I’m still a healthy weight 10 lbs heavier- but I like my body when I sit at the weight I prefer, and I can obtain it in a healthy way, so why not do what makes me happy?

        When I want to lose some lbs I do the following:
        1. Get a personal trainer for a couple of sessions to just shake things up- it helps me get over a plateau. Make sure they are aware of your goals. I find it helps to choose a trainer who has a body type similar to what I am trying to achieve (For example I don’t want to look too bulky so I avoid choosing a female trainer who has a bulky look). That might be unnecessary but I have found it works well for me.
        2. Up the cardio. I always do weights because of the instant gratification factor (a couple of weeks of weights and I will notice a difference in my appearance) but increasing the cardio will drop pounds. High intensity intervals seem to have the most evidence. You have to be consistent for several weeks, but adding a 30 min run 3 times a week drops the weight for me pretty quickly.
        3. I’m sure I will get a lot of flak for this, but I did intermittent fasting for a while. There is a ton of peer-reviewed evidence for this (take a look at pubmed) showing long-term effectiveness for physiologic measures such as cholesterol, BMI, etc. Obviously no one should do this if they have a history of anorexia or if this will be triggering for them in any way. But the concept that you will go into “fasting mode” and store fat if you fast for any period of time is outdated, and there is increasing evidence in support of intermittent fasting. There are a ton of different protocols online with greater or lesser amounts of evidence- you could either talk to a nutritionalist of sports MD or you could take the time to do some reading on pubmed like I did. I wanted to drop my % body fat to 20% and I did that over a few weeks with intermittent fasting (dropped 3%) and I loved the way I looked and I felt great- more energy, better sleep, etc. It became a bit hard to maintain the schedule I liked when my work schedule changed (I’m a surgeon, so I would be scrubbed for up to 14 hours straight- meaning I needed to eat before I scrubbed even if that wasn’t following the plan) but I loved it while I was doing it. I’ve also stayed at 20%, so its been sustainable for me, even with sort of soft/intermittent use.

    • Anon22

      I can’t really tell if you need to lose weight (i.e., you’re 10 lbs away from your “happy weight”) or if you are semi-torturing yourself, but if it’s the former, please try Weight Watchers. I found myself 10-15 pounds above my happy weight, and counting calories/low carb didn’t do anything. WW finally got the scale to move for me, and I am sticking with it for life. Much happier at this weight, and I don’t feel like I’m doing something I can’t keep up with.

      • Anonymous

        this so much. People complain about Weight Watches but I found the new ‘Beyond the Scale’ program and Smartpoints has really improved my relationship with food. I’ve increased by activity and fruit/veggie intake and re-established what an appropriate portion size for one person is (compared to when I was pregnant/nursing and eating ALL THE TIME).

        I find that after 6 months I don’t really ‘need’ to count the point as I have a clear sense of what a sensible breakfast/lunch/dinner looks like and how much activity I need to feel healthy.

        I actually think you need Weight Watchers not to lose weight but to reframe your relationship with food. Your post is very focused on weight/calories and not feeling great/enjoyment of life/food.

      • Incognito Regular

        Yea, that’s not just an arbitrary goal but my happy weight. I used to have free time to take hikes or go for long swims or kayak trips and I maintained that weight. But now offices life is not so kind to me

    • Anonymous

      The fact is, if you’re at a desk for most of your day, you’re not going to have a perfectly lean, hard body. There’s only so many calories you can restrict and muscle you can build to try to offset the “damage” that 8+hours/day of sitting/standing in front of a desk does. Get a treadmill desk and replace your couch with another treadmill at home. The only way you’re getting from a 2/4 to a 0 while still eating anything is by pretty much never being motionless except when you’re sleeping.

    • Denver AD

      When I want to lose a handful of pounds, I weigh, measure, and track every single thing that goes in my mouth; cut out starches after 12:00; and switch up my exercise. I am also a heavy lifter. Adding a fun but demanding cardio class in once or twice a week (I love a good step class!) challenges your body to learn something new. I also switch up my lifting and make sure I’m focusing on progressive overload. Have you been increasing your weight, or have you been stalling out and not adding?

      All that said, make sure this demand is something your body is comfortable doing. I’ve learned that your body has a certain happy state. You can lose those last pounds, but your body may fight you on it.

      Also, as a lifter, remember: the scale is pointless. Stop focusing on it. Take the focus of that number, and work on a new goal: hitting 6 classes a month, upping your deadlift working weight ten pounds, whatever. It’s a kinder way to push yourself (in my estimation).

    • SC

      You sound really healthy to me. I would speak with your doctor about whether you should lose weight and, if you’ve gained 7-10 lbs rapidly, if there might be any medical reason for that. After that, if you want to lose weight, look at whether you’ve been eating more snacks or desserts than usual, or if you can increase protein and decrease grains. And I second the advice to do cardio in addition to weights, or to do circuits at the gym a couple days a week.

    • Anon

      I’d recommend decreasing your carb intake. Ditch all grains, fruit and starchy vegetables like potatoes. It sounds like you might be vegetarian, but if you aren’t, get rid of the beans/legumes as well. Eggs are your friend.

    • anon

      Start eating more often. Smaller meals more often will speed up your metabolism. Breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner, snack.

    • anon

      Intermittent fasting might help you. You can do it different ways. I personally have had success doing it where I eat in an 8 hour window and fast 16 hours every day. Play around with the ranges to see what might work for you (some people even eat in smaller ranges, such as a 4 hour window and fast 20 hours per day).

    • Anonymous

      Catching up on today’s posts, but, you know what – I am sorry that people are so overwhelmingly reacting by saying that you shouldn’t feel like you want to lose weight.

      I remain in the range between 115-120 and this is usually stomach-muscles-hello! territory for me, but I cannot tell you how much I hate anything above 117-118. I can just tell the difference. So, yes, I can totally understand wanting to lose several pounds. People are different and we all have our own goals that are, yes, normal and important to us. Counting calories, the old-fashioned way, is the best way to do this. Make sure to not “cut” too many calories and do not try to lose weight fast; I would only “cut” 200 or so calories a day. It will take time, but you will barely feel it. So, instead of 2,300, eat 2,100 calories a day, for example.

      Now, I don’t know, dude, because this is where it gets hard. I am of the firm belief that one should be able to eat healthily and plenty and also eat dessert every day, and this is what I do. Like you, I cook my own food and I love eating vegetables, grains, and beans, but I also love (“real,” not US-grocery-store-style) bread and I caution anyone without celiac disease to not let herself think of carbohydrates as “bad.” I have dessert every day. It’s all a part of a normal and healthy diet. Counting calories is the best weight-management tool and the only one that I would ever recommend. Eat what you like and eat healthily, and just make sure you stay in your calorie range. And give it time.

    • Anon

      I love Chez Fonfon (French) and Ollie Irene (gastropub). Also El Barrio, Carrigan’s Public House, and Hotbox, (which is a food truck in the back yard of a bar). Rojo has a great patio and pretty good food (although we literally only ever get the mahi tacos). The J Clyde has good burgers and a great beer list but THE WORST service. Saw’s is my favorite barbecue in the city, but opinions vary.

      I could go on all day, apparently.

      (Apologies if this posts twice — I am just really passionate about Birmingham!)

      • brokentoe

        Thank you for some great ideas! With your passion for Birmingham, any ideas for killing time on Sunday morning/early afternoon? We don’t have to be at our party until about 2pm.

        • Anon

          Vulcan Park has a giant statue of Vulcan and also a museum dedicated to the history of Birmingham/the steel industry.

          The Civil Rights District (around the 16th Street Baptist Church) also has a walking tour. I think the Civil Rights Institute is closed on Sunday morning, but Kelly Ingram Park and the walking tour are worth the visit.

        • Beans

          Railroad Park if it’s not too hot. Maybe a boozey brunch? Trattoria has a great brunch. Feast & Forest is new and really good food. Nutella pop-tarts are amazing!

    • Beans

      Bottega or Highlands for nice dinners. Bettola for more casual. Birmingham is a great food town- have fun!

  9. Stock Market

    At what point did you start putting some money in the stock market? Currently I have no investments but my 401k, which is all in a fund determined by my expected retirement age. I am in my mid-20s with mediocre savings, an emergency fund around 6k and a non-emergency savings of around 3k. I make just over 100k.

    Due to some unusual and amazing events 3 months ago, I no longer have a rent or a mortgage, and I don’t expect having to pay one now or anytime in the near future – if ever. As a result, the 6k could probably stretch me to 3-6 months of living. My job is very secure. I have no debt, and by September I anticipate being positioned to save around 50% of my take-home pay (post tax, 401k, insurance, transportation etc). Three years ago I was in huge debt and living paycheck to paycheck, so this feels wild.

    Should I start putting some savings into the market or just save more liquid cash? My risk tolerance is pretty high. However, I work for a bank and my investments have to align with a fair amount of compliance rules and be managed by approved companies. Frankly I think it would be interesting to start learning about the market and investing small amounts of money. Thoughts?

    • Veronica Mars

      Even without rent, $6k is not a sizable enough emergency fund for most adults. What if you lose your job and have to pay for COBRA health insurance? What if your car is totaled tomorrow? What if you’re hit by a bus and can no longer work? I’d focus on padding the emergency fund first and then considering investing after all of your retirement account options (401k contribution and Roth IRA) are maxed out.

    • CPA Lady

      Are you maxing out your 401k? Save some more cash, max out your 401k, and absolutely start investing on the side if you have more left over!

      I started investing in college. I have all my investments in mutual funds, rather than individual stocks. About three quarters of what I have is in large cap and mid cap index funds, and then I have some other stuff “for fun” like international funds, specialty funds (science & technology, metals & minerals), and a more conservative fund with some bonds in it. I’m a big finance nerd though and really enjoy learning about that stuff. I’d suggest you start out by putting money in some index funds.

    • Anonymous

      Definitely increase your emergency savings. Don’t just guess how long it could stretch, really look at how much you spend each month and figure out how much you need. If I didn’t have to pay rent/mortgage I’d stretch that out to 6-9 months just to feel secure. I’m assuming you max out your 401K as well. Could you also contribute to a traditional ROTH? Then start investing. We have a low-risk managed fund, we don’t do anything that requires frequent monitoring.

    • Anon

      Another huge finance nerd here — definitely start investing. Max out your 401k first – to 18k, not just your company match. Then start investing. It doesn’t have to be either-or in terms of upping your emergency fund or investing. Figure out what your cash savings will be starting in Sept. — then you could put half in your emergency fund and half in the market (or 1/3 each if you want to throw in some kind of IRA). I didn’t start investing until I was 28-29 and I pretty much what CPA Lady does. It’s as easy as funding one mutual fund or ETF and throwing in $500/month into that. You get the benefit of market returns and dollar cost averaging, without having to put in 10k all at once and worry about whether you made the wrong decision. I’d personally start with something like IVV or IVW — iShares ETFs that align with the S&P and S&P growth indices, respectively.

    • KT

      So with no rent or mortgage, your expenses are low, but I’d still say bulk up your emergency fund. Sit down and see what you realistically spend on necessities, and save enough money to cover 6 months or so.

      Max out your 401K contributions.

      I would probably then open an IRA for another retirement savings vehicle.

      I do have a small amount that I set aside for peer-to-peer lending, which I’ve found very profitable, but that’s dependent on your risk tolerance.

    • Anonymous

      When I was about 19. I was in the military, so I had very little in the way of living expenses and financial obligations, but a steady (though small) paycheck. Investing was a big hobby of mine for years, and I really enjoyed researching and choosing individual stocks. Now I have a lot more income, but also live in a hcola and have kids in childcare; with time and disposable $ at a premium, I don’t do anything besides max out my 401k and occasionally rebalance the index funds in my IRAs. I still hold positions in many of the individual stocks from my 20s, but I haven’t added any new ones in years.

      If you’re interested in getting started investing, and don’t have any major debt hanging over your head, I don’t see a reason to make your emergency fund perfect before you jump in. I’d divide your take-home pay into 3 buckets:
      living expenses (necessities + fun money)
      savings (emergency fund + retirement)
      investments

      Prioritize the first two, but whatever is left over you can have some fun with in the market. If that’s only a couple hundred to start, so be it, you can adjust the proportions as you go. Long term, stocks are one of the best way to grow your wealth, blah blah blah, but it’s much better/easier to invest wisely when you have mentally labeled your investments as money that you don’t actually need, so if it all goes to zero, that sucks, but it won’t actually sink you financially.

    • arya

      you’ve gotten good advice here. I make around the same in a VHCOL city and this is what I do: max out my 401k with 18k, keep an emergency fund of 10k liquid (in a “high” interest savings acct of 1.25%), save annually 15k of which 5.5k goes into a roth IRA (this is because you can remove the principal of 5.5k at any time, but your earnings on that grow interest free!) and 9.5k goes into vanguard index funds. my vanguard index funds are a combination of the total stock market index fund, reits, and the bonds in a 80, 15 and 5% split. occasionally i get a bigger bonus than expected and i try to put most of that into vanguard. I like vanguard because the expense ratios (basically fees) are super low like on the order of 0.05% once you get into the admiral funds. there are admiral fund versions of most popular index mutual funds but require 10k of investment to qualify. The fees for non-admiral funds are still quite low at like 0.16-0.25% or so.

  10. Anonymous

    We have the Petrie from Crate and Barrel — have had it for almost 10 years now and it still looks and feels great (they still carry the same model). It doesn’t necessarily _look_ cozy, but it’s really comfortable to sit or sleep on — and long enough that someone tall (like my husband) can nap on it comfortably (a lot of the “cozy” couches are actually too short for that because some of the length gets eaten up by the big puffy arms. We have a couple of throw pillows we put against the arms if we want to be able to sit with our backs against the arms/feet up on the sofa, and that works well.

    • Big Comfy Couch

      Thank you! Don’t worry, found your post down here. Definitely looking for a long lifespan on my new couch.

      • Anonymous

        Great, so glad you found it – I was worried — I took too long to type my response and ended up under the other discussions that popped up! It’s really a great sofa. We also bought another Crate and Barrel sofa, a sectional they discontinued, in a microfiber, and it’s holding up well to our use and my toddler bounding all over it.

    • Constant Reader

      Concur on the Petrie — we have it in leather and it’s held up well to husband, teenage boy, and dog. It’s not cushy, but it’s comfortable. We also have C&B Montclair sofa, which is cushy and comfortable, and has held up well in the stock fabric for two years under lighter use (I.e. me mostly lying on it and reading).

    • anon-oh-no

      we also have that couch and its held up physically well for more than 11 years), but we have white fabric and it doesn’t look great. we are super hard on it though.

  11. Em

    What did everyone do with their wedding dress? Mine has been sitting in my closet for over 2 years (including a move). I just purged my closet and got rid of everything I didn’t wear, and am at a loss for what to do with it. I am leaning toward donating it, but am also open to creative ideas.

    • Cb

      I donated mine (to my neighbor’s horror, 3 months after the wedding). Oxfam takes wedding dress donations and I like to think that someone without much money was able to use it / someone has a costume for a play. The crinolines went a week after the wedding to a local theatre company. I kept my polka dot overlay and the jewellery and regularly wear the shoes (Cole Hahn shimmery flats).

    • Anonymous

      Depending on the style, you could have a seamstress remake it into a cocktail dress to wear on anniversaries. Save the extra material to use to have christening gowns made.

    • Anonymous

      Mine is preserved in a box and stored in my basement (on a high shelf, in case of flooding). I couldn’t bring myself to part with it, even for a good cause.

    • KT

      I sold mine only on Tradesy–it was originally $1000 and then $300 with alterations and I sold it for $400ish.

      I wrote an article on this topic, and in the comments, a few people recommended donating the dress to be made into angel gowns, burial gowns for still-born babies and babies who die shortly after birth. I had never heard of that before but it seems to be really popular.

      There’s also a charity where you donate the dress to terminally ill women who want to get married before they die.

      • KT

        Oh, and some people have them framed! If you have a walk-in closet, it could be a nice way to showcase your beautiful dress and feel all celeb-like

        • Em

          I lol’d at the thought of framing my wedding dress and hanging it in our tiny, bare walk-in closet above the hampers full of dirty clothes (particularly at the thought of my husband’s face when he saw it). I don’t think my closet is fab enough for this, but it would be awesome in a Carrie Bradshaw-esque claset.

          • Anon

            “Particularly at the thought of my husband’s face when he saw it” actually made me laugh out loud.

        • KT

          It’s not like, crazy framing–like they shadow box it with the invitation and favor. There’s tons on Etsy and Pinterest and diy guides on how to do it for $50

    • Anon

      Donated the dress a couple of years after we got married, sold the crinolines on CL. I still have the shoes but they need some repair. I’m not super sentimental and have no plans to have children, so it didn’t make sense to have it still hanging around.

    • Anon for this

      So….this might be my only “bridezilla” moment.

      I handwashed the bottom of my wedding dress after the wedding (it was super dirty). It went so well that I decided to handwash the rest of it! Unfortunately, the bra that was sewn into the dress transferred its dye to the sheer lace top of the dress, which is now somewhat tea-colored :( I’m still trying some remedies to get the color out, but it isn’t looking good…

      And so I bought a second, identical dress, so that if my future daughter/niece/cousin/etc want to wear “my” wedding dress, they can.

      I know it’s silly. And I probably will never need it, or care. But I decided that, 30 years from now, I’ll be mad at myself if someone wanted the dress and I couldn’t provide it because I’d “ruined” it by handwashing. 30 years from now, I will not be mad that I spent $850 on a duplicate dress “just in case”.

      Shrug. At least I waited until after the wedding to be a nutty bride? :)

      • Anonymous

        I’m glad you’re acknowledging this is nutty, because wow this is nutty. But I hope it works out well and your future relative wants to use your dress!

        • Anon for this

          Oh, it is totally, completely nutty. I freely acknowledge that!! But I was super, super sad about the color transfer (nude bra that I’ve owned for years, who knew!?!?!) and this solution made me happy. Nutty, but happy.

          • Em

            But for all the money and effort you went through, you should totally frame your dress and hang it in your closet like KT suggested above. Even if no one wears it, at least it will be a show piece!

      • Terry

        I really wish I had been able to at least try on my mother’s wedding dress. She died 4 years before I got married and it would have meant the world to me. Not saying you’ll die, but weddings bring out strong and unexpected emotions. I think it’s important to recognize and indulge them a bit.

      • ORD

        I wore my mom’s dress. It needed major alterations because she was so skinny, but it worked and it’s a beautiful dress. It’s back in her storage closet. So far none of the granddaughters shows any interest in it, but maybe later they will. I was so glad she saved it.

    • Shayla

      I cut it up and sewed a baptism gown out of the bottom part of the skirt. The bodice and enough material for a short skirt are still intact. Not sure what I’ll do with that.

    • Evergreen

      I wear mine! Each year on my anniversary. My dress isn’t white, so doesn’t scream “wedding dress” if I wear it out to a restaurant, but it is (I think!) a beautiful classic gown that is perfect for my body shape so I happily wear it in public. Even if some years that means wearing a floor-length dress to a fast food place because it’s all we could manage after a long day at work!

    • Ann

      I donated my wedding gown immediately after the wedding. I was so tired of paying for it- the dress, the alterations, the accessories, the pressing once we reached the wedding destination. I didn’t even want to pay to have it cleaned after the wedding. I still have the shoes, which are sparkly and can be worn with other evening wear but I just haven’t had the occasion to wear them. I also still have the lovely jeweled belt I wore with the gown.
      My husband and I had a civil ceremony before the wedding for logistical reasons and I bought a white and gold sheath dress for that that I still have. It’s special to me and I can wear it again for a special anniversary.

      • Anon

        I hear you. . . I haven’t gotten around to doing anything with mine yet so it’s hanging in the closet a year later, but basically all I think about when I see it is how much money I spent on alterations, how much time and angst I spent trying to figure out an unexpectedly tricky undergarment situation, how unexpectedly uncomfortable it was to wear day-of, and how high the quote was to get random dirt and stains cleaned after. No clue what I’ll end up doing with it. . .

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I’ve had mine for almost four years and haven’t done anything with it, and was thinking of donating mine until I was at my aunt’s house last summer. She was married in 1972, and I had such a fun time with my mom and aunts going through her album again (and hearing a few crazy wedding stories come out…), and she brought out her dress (daisy lace with long sleeves and a gigantic sun hat!). It was so neat to see the dress in person. Now I’m definitely keeping mine. I keep almost nothing and am ruthless with clothes, but I figure this is the one garment I’ll keep.

      • potato

        Sick of wedding planning? Divorce? I’d love to hear the story if you’re willing to share!

    • PNW

      I sold it. My young daughters are pissed (I’m sure they’ll be over it by the time they are marriage age), but I have zero regrets. Hypothetically it’d be nice to have, but it took up so much space and really truly I didn’t think it would ever be worn again if I kept it, which seemed like a waste.

      • Snick

        I saved mine and my now 15 year old daughter has already outgrown it! She’s 5 inches taller than me.

        • Terry

          She may use part of it in her dress, even if just some of the fabric. My cousin had the sash from her mother’s gown sewn on the inside of her dress and it was meaningful to both of them.

      • Momata

        I sold mine, as well. My body type is not in the middle of the bell curve so I thought my chances of having a daughter who a)could wear it and b)liked it were low. The woman who bought my dress said she had seen it in a catalog and fell in love with it, and was so grateful to be able to afford it. She sent me pictures of her wedding day, and it made me so happy to see my dress taking another turn around the dance floor. I kept my veil in hopes a relative will want to wear that someday.

    • Anonymous

      I wear it! It was a navy sequin evening gown, so perhaps easier to rewear than a white ballgown.

  12. Career clerking?

    Any ladies here career clerks in federal district court? I’ve been at a private firm for 5 years, but I know it’s not what I want forever. An opportunity to clerk (I didn’t clerk right out of school) has fallen in my lap, with a probable opportunity for it to be a career clerk position.

    I’m pretty torn about whether to do it. Pros seem to be that I love the judge, it’s interesting work, and the lifestyle is far more in line with what I’d like. Cons seem to be that it could get repetitive, no chance for advancement, and I’m not sure firms would want me if I decided I didn’t like it.

    Related– Would the clerkship impact my ability to go in house? I’m pretty good at “firm rules” but I’m not sure how this sort of thing would be viewed to folks in house.

    • Anonymous

      I haven’t clerked so I can’t comment on your other cons, but as to your point that firms wouldn’t want you if end up not liking it, I think that’s totally wrong. Perhaps if you clerked for 20 years or something it would be hard to return, but if you go to a federal judge to clerk for a year or two, and decide being a career clerk is not for you, I guarantee you firms will be chomping at the bit to hire you. Firms LOVE former federal clerks and you don’t have to make it clear that you considered doing it as a career. Just pitch it as something you wanted to do to get experience before returning to private practice.

      • Fed here

        +1 to this. Just try it and then reasses after a year or two. You’ll have a much better idea if clerking long term is right for you. It’s a great job, with great security and benefits, but there are downsides like you mentioned.

    • Anon

      I clerked – though only 1 yr. You’re right — it will be repetitive and there is no advancement. As for exit options, I think if you want to exit, you need to do so in 1-3 yrs max. I think you can make a pitch to be a litigator someplace or possibly in house — though in house jobs tend to lean more corporate and they tend to value litigators less, but it could be possible to find an investigations focused in house job. I think you’ll know within a yr or 2 if you want to stay or not; if you don’t, you move on then. If you clerk for 5 yrs or 10 yrs then I agree you become far less marketable.

    • Anon

      Current term clerk at appellate level here, I know several career clerks and it seems to be a popular option for 5-10 years while families are young. I knew a career clerk who went back to a firm when her kids hit late elementary school, and she went back as essentially an “of counsel” brief writing specialist (I don’t remember the exact terminology). I think it would be hard to go back and jump back on partner track, but if that isn’t what you want, you could definitely find a place.

      As for in house, I think that would be much more difficult because just because you won’t have the same kinds of client interactions.

    • Betty

      I was not a career clerk but I clerked for the same federal judge for five years. I clerked for one year out of law school and then four years after doing time in biglaw. I left the position because I hit my “term” limit and the judge already had a career law clerk (they can only have one unless the clerk was grandfathered in prior to 2006/07). I am now in house.

      I LOVED clerking. I had an amazing boss who was kind, brilliant and an amazing jurist. She helped me remember why I enjoyed the law after biglaw had nearly destroyed my desire to practice law. Yes, there can be repetition but there are also novel legal issues that made me stretch intellectually. Your lifestyle is determined by your judge: if your judge wants you there from 7am to 7pm, so be it. If your judge has a policy that everyone leaves at 4pm on Fridays, that is what goes for your chambers. As a career clerk, you have the opportunity to participate in the retirement system (term clerks do not) and be placed on the leave act (where you can accrue a nice amount of sick and vacation leave).

      As for advancement/exit opportunities, there may be more than you think. In some districts, clerks go on to work in the clerk of court’s office. I found that my cumulative time in the court was a plus for going in house. After five years, I not only knew my judge but all the others in the courthouse as well and had a good sense of how things were handled and would be perceived. I came away as more of an expert in federal district court than I realized at the time. However, I do feel that had I stayed for much longer, it would have been difficult to find anywhere to go. And remember that you are probably going to clerk for someone who is older than you, and you will need to find somewhere else to go (even to another judge) eventually.

    • Senior Attorney

      I was a career clerk in my state appellate court for five years and it was an awesome job. I was able to transition to a high-level government job pretty easily, to my surprise. People have also gotten appointed to the bench from those jobs. Haven’t heard of anyone going in-house but I wouldn’t rule it out. I would think firms would be happy to have you, for sure.

    • Career Clerk

      Not sure if you’re still here, but I am a career clerk in federal district court. Have been in the job for 4 years, was practicing for 7 before that (plus a prior clerkship).
      If you love the judge (I love mine) it’s a great job.

      Exit options are always a concern. I don’t know if I can truly do this for a “career,” but I haven’t gotten tired of it yet. I don’t see a downside to seeing how you like it for a year or two. You will not be in any jeopardy if you try to leave after that amount of time.

      I say try it!!

      • Career Clerk

        Oh, also, I had baby and took a 20-week leave in my third year. I’ve struggled to be a good parent and good full-time employee since returning to work, but this job is probably about as good as it gets for a lawyer doing that juggle. Above all, it’s a predictable schedule. And a boss who understands lateness / missed days for doctor appointments, illness, etc. And who was totally cool with a chambers fridge full of bre*st milk for the 8 months I was pumping!!

  13. Aki

    What do you do when a drycleaner ruins a piece of clothing and you did not notice until you had already paid? Ask for your money back on the cleaning? Ask for credit for the value of the dress? Just never go there again?

    • Maddie Ross

      Did you notice before you wore it? If so, I would take it back and explain. See what they can do. At the worst, just never go there again. But definitely worth trying to get a refund or damages.

    • Ms B

      My long term cleaner credits the original purchase price for the item, plus tax, for anything ruined or lost (I have a house charge). That does not get me my favorite black sheath back, but I view it as a cost of doing business as it only happens once every couple years and the hubs and I have tons of work clothes cleaned.

  14. JCB

    Is there such a thing as cute cotton underwear? It seems like everything is modal these days, which I find gross in hot weather.

    • Anon

      Garnet Hill still carries good undies. But they are pricy :(

      I like a little stretch and not 100% cotton. Agree that I abhor modal (not just for undies). It’s definitely a way for designers to cheap out.

      Also–sideye–I see you JCrew and Talbots and OldNavy, trying to call modal tees your “Luxe” tees and charge a lot for them. Not falling for it.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I feel you. I hate synthetics, especially in underwear. I’ve purchased cotton underwear from Gap and PACT, which sells organic cotton underwear. Not sure if it meets the “cute” criteria, but I like their lace-edged hipsters. They’re very comfortable.

      Modal is THE DEVIL. I hate how it’s supposed to be flowy but instead is clingy and saggy and feels heavy and gross in hot weather. The few modal items I’ve ever had also end up looking worn very quickly.

    • Davis

      I like the Calvin Klein “Flourish” bikini. They’re cotton and wear great, but just pretty enough to be fun too.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I have a job where I occasionally get sweaty and my all-cotton undies would get, uh, swampy. I switched for the kind of underwear made to be worn under workout pants – not thongs, but like very lightweight, silky boyshorts or hipsters. Still have a cotton cr*tch but they stay gloriously cool.

      • Worker Bee

        Armachillo briefs from Duluth Trading – surprisingly – do well in wicking away.

  15. Ms B

    I have several friends who are career clerks and the hub’s BFF went from elbow clerk to staff attorney to career clerk to firm to DOJ. There are a lot of benefits to the position just like you said, but definite negatives.

    If you stay more than three years (at the outside) you will find moving either back to a firm or in house difficult, not only from the getting hired perspective, but from the liking being at a firm or in house position. It is doable, but for two of my friends who have made the jump to firms, it required pay cuts, substantially longer hours, and agreeing to longer tracks for partner consideration just to get their (less than ideal in both cases) positions, especially because at that point they were only a year or two from partner “age” in terms of career years, but did not have any business, which either extended the partnership process a few years or resulted in my friend leaving private practice.

    Now, that said, longer term clerking does not leave you without options. I know several people who transitioned from career clerking to court administration (bankruptcy court or supervisory staff attorney, appellate court settlement attorney, deputy clerk, clerk of a BAP, etc.), bar associations (director of local bar, head of state bar’s CLE program) and nonprofit practice and administration (ACLU, Legal Services, etc.).

    I also have a couple friends that transitioned from longer term clerking to good government positions (one to DOJ, one to Deputy GC of state department, one to Deputy Chief of Staff to state Attorney General). However, I note that each of these people used the time they were clerking to get supplemental degrees and credentials (MBA, MSW, and IT certificate, respectively) that made them attractive candidates for their positions.

    However, if these do not appeal to you, then you need to consider your long term goals and options.

    Also, one other thing to think about — I have several friends who were career clerks to judges that retired or took senior status. A few of them were kept on by the replacement judge (although two of them were only kept part-time as supplemental clerks) or transitioned to someone else at the court, but more of them have been left without jobs and few options. Almost no private firms will take on a 15-plus year clerk and non-profit practice is a huge pay cut, which is not attractive for people in their late 40s and early 50s who have kids at home and retirement to save for.

    Think it all through and good luck!

  16. Social Security mailing

    Hi all, I just got one of those statements of social security benefits in the mail, summarizing my income and contributions by year. I’m in my 30s, so not qualifying for SS any time soon. It says to call immediately to correct any errors, but I am wondering, is this really worth doing? There are some income years missing for me, some of which I could back up with W2s and some which are too long ago. Do people do this?

    • Aunt Jamesina

      Just do it now. You don’t want to try to track down the paperwork when you’re eligible for benefits!

    • Anonymous

      You should! If you end up disabled before 65 (which has a higher likelihood of happening than most people expect), any SS disability income will be based on the prior 10 years income, I believe.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, do it now while it’s on your mind. My aunt’s Social Security got messed up at some point in the 80s and she knew about it by the late 80s/early 90s but didn’t do anything then–a few years ago, as she was approaching retirement, she thought to sort it out and it was a HUGE headache because it was so far back in time and she didn’t have easy access to all of the documentation.

    • Mpls

      And even if you don’t have a W2 anymore, the IRS should have a copy. I don’t know if SSA can go directly to the IRS to get that information, or if you have to be the intermediary, but there is a way to get tax records like that if necessary.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      Did you work for a public employer that is exempt from paying SS? I worked for a state government for a couple years that had its own pension program and some option elect the pension, no SS and get more take home. I had to sign some waiver acknowledging that I wouldn’t get SS credit for those years. I did it (young me thought woo hoo, more take home) but I didn’t stay in that job long enough to collect the pension. Those years show up as zeros on my SS statement.

    • Mountain Girl

      Do it now. For all the reasons listed above but you also might be doing somebody else a huge favor. We recently discovered that the income was missing for our entire company for 2012. We had an employee who rec’d the form and was nearing retirement so did question the missing year. One thing lead to another and soon found out all none of the income had been credited to anyone for that calendar year. It didn’t take too much to get it straighted it but one person’s inquiry fixed it for everybody else.

  17. What I Can Do

    I live in St. Paul and attended the funeral for Philando Castile (black man shot by police last week) yesterday. It was heartbreaking and hopeful, and inspired me to think about what I – a middle aged white lady, in-house employment law counsel – can “do” about the persistent disparities that continue to exist. I’m not the ‘march in a protest’ type – but here’s what I can do:

    (1) acknowledge that mandatory criminal background checks at hiring disproportionately affect minority communities, and implement policies that minimize use / reliance upon them;

    (2) engage in conversations with family and friends who see “thugs” and “criminals” instead of “people equally deserving of the presumption of innocence until proven guilty,” and

    (3) make a conscious effort to expose my white son to positive portrayals of non-whites in books and other media.

    Other ideas?

    • Anonymous

      Donate to and volunteer at a local elementary school (one you wouldn’t send your child to) and encourage others to do so until that school is the one you want your child to go to. It may take a generation or two . . .

    • Anonymous

      Or even if you watch The Wire, note that the cops, lawyers, and politicians are black, too.

      Also: what could Stringer Bell have done had he been born in Roland Park?

    • Anon

      Are you really saying companies shouldn’t conduct criminal background checks before hiring?

      • Em

        I think the reference was addressing much companies rely on the information in making hiring decisions and whether the conviction has any bearing on the job. For example, the fact that someone has a possession of marijuana ticket from 5 years ago doesn’t really have any bearing on whether they would make a good store clerk today, but a lot of companies would refuse to hire an applicant on that basis. However, the fact that someone was convicted of embezzlement does have bearing on whether you should hire them to keep your books.

      • mascot

        I don’t think that is what she is saying, but rather advocating for companies to use some discretion weighing the results of such checks. Some companies may have more success in this than others. I live in an area that has a lot of good paying jobs that are hard to fill because people can’t pass background checks and drug screens. Employers here are also trying to educate students/potential hires as to the importance of keeping a clean record and screen because some employers can’t waive such requirements for safety/security reasons.

      • Anonymous

        It’s so tough to know where to draw the line. Should company policy be to disregard minor charges, like say disorderly conduct? What if someone has multiple disorderly conduct charges in the past year? Do you look more negatively on a white frat boy who had 3 disorderlies in a year than you would a black protester with the same? How can you apply employment policies uniformly but also fairly?

      • SC

        I agree that more discretion should be used. My husband lost a battle at work over this. He really liked and wanted to hire a guy who, it turned out, had been arrested but not even charged in another state for assault during a fight at a club or bar. My husband’s boss and the other manager decided not to hire the guy over the arrest. I have a hard time believing that race did not play a role. All three managers were white men, and the potential hiree was African-American. I don’t think anyone would have blinked at a white man who got arrested but not charged for assault because he may or may not have swung a punch at a bar or a frat party or whatever.

    • ITDS

      #1 is huge, especially given your job. Credit checks for non-cash-handling job are also something than needs to be worked on.

      • Anonymous

        Can you explain more about why? I always thought of a credit check as a means of a test for reliability and responsibility, but obviously there is something more to it.

          • Anonymous

            I could see it being useful if it is flagrantly bad for someone who shouldn’t have bad credit.

            I know of someone (a bookkeper) who must do some financial gymnastics (flashy lifestyle but lots of creditor calls). When you shouldn’t be in trouble but are, maybe you shouldn’t be hired as a bookkeeper b/c you either aren’t good at $ or might be an embezzlement risk.

            This is way different than for people who are dead broke (again, often from healthcare bills or lingering low income effects of health issues) and have always been.

        • AIMS

          For 99% of jobs, credit checks are completely irrelevant. There are so many reasons that someone responsible could have gotten into fiscal problems (divorce, job loss, health crisis, family crisis, etc.) that it really doesn’t reflect anything accurate about their character and all it does do is disproportionately impact people who need a job the most and thus further contributes to their financial problems.

        • Sarabeth

          It’s more of a test for coming from a financially secure background. You can be wildly irresponsible but have great credit, if your parents pay your credit card for your. You can also be a very responsible person who doesn’t come from money, and find yourself having to make difficult choices about making your car payment on time or getting your electricity cut off.

        • Double-Bingo

          Also, as someone who works in the consumer reporting field, it’s worth pointing out that both credit reports and background checks (especially when combined into one report) are wrong SO OFTEN, and can be incredibly difficult to correct.

    • JCB

      Connect with an organization called Showing Up For Racial Justice (SURJ). It’s exactly what you are looking for.

    • Alma

      I think that we should all start a Corporette fund for all shooting victims, irrespective of colour. No one is to be deemed ineligible to collect by reason of race, national origin or occupation. Cops are also eligible. How about this for an idea on a rainy Friday?

    • Meg Murry

      3a) make a conscious effort to expose your white son to people that look or live differently than him in real life, not just in books. Does he interact with people of different races, or are 90%+ of the people he interacts with white and of the same socioeconomic class? Do you have friends that are non-white? Does he? Teach him to see POC as *people* not as *other*

      3b) when he gets older, explain to him how lucky and priviledged he is, and that the narrative about being able to do anything if you work hard enough is a lot harder for people who don’t have the support and privilege he does. Don’t let him grow up being born on 3rd base and thinking it’s easy to cross home plate.

      3c) check your own privilege, and watch the assumptions you are making. If you are enrolling him in a “better” school or daycare, or moving to a “better” neighborhood – is that (unconscious) code for “whiter”? Are “bad” neighborhoods in your area actually dangerous during the daytime, or are they just “bad” because high populations of minorities live there?

      Note that I say all of this as a white woman working hard to check her own privilege, and struggle with how to follow my own advice, so that my children don’t grow up having just 1 token black friend and saying “I’m not racist” while still contributing to a unconsciously racist society.

      • Anonymous

        For 3C, I like to think of “checking one’s privilege” as more “examine and understand my (and others) biases”.

        We are all human. Human brains look for patterns. Unfortunately and because of various socio-economic reasons, this can lead to prejudices, stereotypes, and, in some cases, racism. E.g., Asians = “model minority”, other POC = insert-common-assumption.

        I am biased when interacting with strangers due to my perception of their race, gender, socio-economic status, age, etc. I work to acknowledge my biases and to compensate for my biases when interacting with others. It’s difficult but recognizing bias is something that I think everyone needs to do instead of just insisting that they personally aren’t racist. I have had people righteously accuse me of racism while disclaiming any racism on their part and then turn around and say something that shocks me in how racist it is. Everyone is biased. Everyone has to work to overcome biases.

        For anyone, I call out any biases that the person has without shaming or blaming. Labeling someone as a “racist” or “sexist” is not conducive to helping that person grow.

  18. PJ

    PSA – Marmi shoes dot com is having a big clearance sale. Van Eli pumps w/ 2 3/4 inch heel, normally $150, are on sale for $45.

  19. anonymous

    I am in the incredibly fortunate position of having two jobs offers, and they are very different. Assuming pay/benefits are equal…Help me choose?
    1: in-house, 15 minute commute. Very limited subject matter. Unstable (lots of recent changes) but very large company. Very competent but not very friendly legal team. Long term prospects are a bit limited, though, and I am very junior.
    2: fairly large law firm, 1 hour commute and occasional travel (approximately 1 week/month I’d be in another state). Growing, exciting subject matter, LOVE the team in both states, allows me to get a really broad training foundation in multiple areas of interest.

    I’m very young and my husband supports either option, but we are TTC and traveling sounds really tough. Is this a lean in moment?

    • Senior Attorney

      Can you move closer to #2 to help out with the commute? 1 hour each way or 1 hour total? If 1 hour total I’d go with #2 for sure (“don’t leave before you leave”). If 1 hour each way and no prospects of moving closer, that might be a dealbreaker for me.

      • anonymous

        One hour each way. Problem is my husband’s job–he has very short commute, but he’s also in charge of food, house errands, etc. Makes the move difficult. Plus, we have a very close group of friends/community, and a support system that makes it hard to move.

    • Anon

      I was going to say law firm, all the way — until I noticed it is a ONE HOUR commute? One way? What are the billable requirements like — or expectations in that group if there’s no minimum? How much downtime/sleep will you be getting if on top of work + travel, you also commute an hr each way? I’d say law firm and find some way to move closer; it’ll be better for your career – you sound like you’re too young for a dead end type of in house job with an unfriendly team at an unstable company. They may be in the stage of their lives where they do their work, collect their paycheck, and go home; it’s VERY hard for a young person to grow in that situation bc no one will take an interest in you bc they just want to finish their work quick to get home for soccer practice.

      • anonymous

        That’s exactly what I’m worried about. I’ve been doing a 1.5 hour commute (each way) for two years, and it is really tough. 1900 hour billable requirement.

      • anonymous

        OP again–and did I mention the in-house team I’d work for also work from home at least one day a week? (Pluses and minuses, from a junior standpoint–facetime makes learning easier, but ohhhh the flexibility.)

        Whereas the law firm…not so much. Very big on facetime, which is why I’d have to go to another state with some regularity (the team I work with is there). BUT they have an office minutes from my home and a few years down the road, I could perhaps work locally!

  20. Anon

    All, is a Nordstrom card worth it? Are the benefits good? Also, anyone able to explain to me the differences between the cards? I think there is a Nordstrom retail card and another Nordstrom credit card. Are the rewards the same? Reasons for getting one over the other?

    • Julia

      No. Not access to the sale.
      I haven’t looked a current options, but my Nordstrom card is a debit card attached to my bank account, so it is the same as using my bank debit card at Nordstrom. It gets me access to the sale and points but does not constitute another credit account, which I don’t need more of. I pretty much never use it, honestly, but was grateful to have access to the sale.

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