ByElizabeth Hours Updated
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Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Houndstooth BrooksCool® Merino Wool Sheath Dress

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This short-sleeved dress is just about perfect. The pleated detailing at the neckline looks so elegant, and you can usually guarantee that Brooks Brothers will be using gorgeous fabrics (here, it’s 100% merino wool). A dress like this is something you’ll be wearing during every season, with a light cardigan in the summer and tights and black blazer this winter.

The dress is $298 and available in sizes 0–16. Houndstooth BrooksCool® Merino Wool Sheath Dress 

A more affordable option is this Theory houndstooth dress; it comes in sizes 00–16 and is $158 on sale, marked down from $395.

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Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 4/21/25:

  • Nordstrom – 5,263 new markdowns for women!
  • Ann Taylor – 25% off tops & sweaters + extra 40% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50%-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Boden – 10% off new womenswear styles
  • Brooks Brothers – Friends & Family Sale: 30% off sitewide
  • The Fold – 25% off selected lines
  • Eloquii – $29+ select styles + extra 40% off all sale
  • Everlane – Spring sale, up to 70% off
  • J.Crew – Spring Event: 40% off sitewide + extra 50% off sale styles + 50% swim & coverups
  • J.Crew Factory – 40%-70% off everything + extra 70% off clearance
  • Kule – Lots of sweaters up to 50% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Earth Day Sale: Take 25% off eco-conscious fabrics. Try code CORPORETTE15 for 15% off
  • Madewell – Extra 30% off sale + 50% off sale jeans
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 50% off last chance styles; new favorites added
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 30% off entire purchase w/Talbots card

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

304 Comments

  1. I need some rugs.

    For odd spaces, has Flor held up for you who have washed the tiles?

    And for those of you who have Flor and Ruggable, which do you prefer? I’m guessing Ruggable for nasty spots, like bathrooms, mudrooms, kitchens, maybe busy hallways. But I’m guessing Flor for more typical rug spaces (bedrooms, dens)?

    Right now DH is also WFH and is on calls all day and I need to get rugs anyway, but I bet it would cut down on the echoing / sound traveling issues (like how I do calls from my closet b/c it is quiet b/c of all of the clothes hanging there).

    1. I have both – and I have one in each kid’s room (one flor, one ruggable) so it’s a good comparison. One of the big reasons my husband insisted on rugs was the echoing issue – and both did cut down on it quite a bit.

      I personally prefer the Ruggable. The flor tiles can separate and still to me look like separate pieces pulled together. I think the ruggable looks better. I also have noticed that the ruggable holds up better to pet nails. The real kicker for me though is that I LOVE being able to toss the whole ruggable in the washer.

      Pros for the flor tile: don’t pull up in the corners like the ruggable, slightly thicker (ruggable is like a beach towel over a velcro pad), and easier to replace if you have wear in one area.

    2. I have Flor floor tiles in the playroom and it’s seriously perfect. They stay down and in place and I really couldn’t care less if one gets destroyed because spot cleaning is easy and replacement is even easier (we bought 5 extra and stashed them in the attic).

    3. I would recommend ordering samples from Flor – I really didn’t like them in person although they looked nice in pictures.

  2. How much would you pay a nutritionist per month? I’m medically obese and after struggling for years I’m considering going for one but the cost is staggering! I’m not in biglaw or law at all… Any experience or thoughts or pointers are welcome. I also feel I know the ‘theory’ of what’s to be done but the problem is not practicing it. TIA!

    2. You could also consider a program online like Fasting Method or Noom. Fasting Method is run by Dr. Jason Fung and his team. He has written a few books on intermittent fasting. I have been successful on his program when I follow it! I am still fasting most mornings, which I credit with only adding about 10 lbs through covid — still not great I know, but I lost a parent and had to move in to their house to stay with the other, so lots of stress eating.

        1. The last time I checked Dr. Fung — a nephrologist who has worked with hundreds if not thousands of type 2 diabetics to reverse their diabetes and lose significant weight in the process was a REAL health care professional. Potentially one of the leading health care professionals in understanding the role of insulin in weight gain and loss.

          1. Insulin and blood sugar are not that hard to understand though. And it sounded like OP was looking for motivational coaching and accountability rather than information.

            “Reverse diabetes” is also a really irritating expression. My A1C is awesome and I no longer suffer from hypoglycemia. But for people without diabetes, that’s true no matter what they eat. I know it is a big, big deal not to have nerve damage, amputations, cardiovascular disease, or to take on all the risks of big gun diabetics medications. But it’s all dependent on staying on diet, which is a pretty significant intervention that has to be kept up for life.

      2. I did not have a good experience with Noom (always gained more than I lost after their 1200 kcal/day diet), and I am a size 6-8n 5’8″ lawyer. See a real nutritionist. I’ve seen the Real Life RD recommended here although I haven’t tried them.

    3. It’s hard to say how much you would pay ‘per month’. It would more be a ‘per visit’ fee I think. Look for a registered dietitian not just a nutritionist then you know you’re getting someone with an actual university degree is dietetics vs. someone who read a fad diet book and decided to start advising on nutrition. Look for someone who is focused on health and not just weight loss. Ask the dietitian for a recommendation for a therapist with experience in food issues. You need a psychological and physical approach as you have identified follow through as a challenge.

      Does your health insurance not cover the cost? I’m in Canada and dietitians are included on our public health plan so I’m assuming ‘regular’ non-bare bones insurance in the US should cover it as well.

    5. Not your question, but I wonder whether individuals running their own businesses who offer online consulting are less expensive. I read the blog fannetasticfood (run by Anne Mauney) and like her food philosophy. She is an RD who has a practice, which I assume offers online support. No idea what she charges.

      As to your question, I’d be willing to skip a lot of extras (a trip, restaurant meals, nail appointments, clothing purchases) to pay for a service like this if I thought it would help me achieve my goals. I find I enjoy my life more when I’m happy with my appearance and feel fit, so those things are a priority for me.

    6. Highly recommend the podcast “Weight loss for busy physicians” by Katrina Ubell MD. Should be titled “for busy women” instead – don’t get put off by the “for physicians” title. While she only works with women physicians as clients, her coaching training is from The Life School which has a lot of weight loss coaches you can work with one on one. I’m in the medical field and I can say that I’m honestly not impressed with what dietitians have to offer and I think the cognitive behavioral approach (similar to Noom, from what I’ve heard) is really fantastic.

    7. Since you say the issue is knowing what needs to be done but not practicing it, maybe an accountability tool could be helpful. I’ve just started using the FitBit Charge4 paired with Myfitnesspal and a smart scale. I’m someone who previously never had to watch my weight but after an injury that left me couch bound for months and a course of prednisone and then antidepressants that made me gain even more weight, I’m suddenly a weight I don’t like and trying to work to change it. For me, the first step was tracking what I was putting in and burning off calorie wise. With FitBit I get a much better record of what I’m burning because I do things like go up and down my stairs in my house 20 times a day naturally.

      At first I found Myfitnesspal had a super low calorie number but if I changed the settings to “maintain my weight” or to just lose five pounds at 1/2 a pound per week it was a much more manageable number. It doesn’t take very long to use at all. I can scan foods as I go and the info is already there. It’s been so useful in real time when deciding what or how much of something to eat (or whether to exercise) to see how many calories I have left in a day. Going for an extra 1 mile walk that only takes me 20 minutes “earns” me the same number of calories of my favorite drink.

      I’m not using any of the forms (which I have heard can be quite disordered at times) and solely tracking with these two apps. I’d still see a nutritionist to work on what’s good to eat but I bet you can figure a lot out with the app. For example, once I started measuring and counting I realized I was getting a ton of empty calories from my favorite honey mustard when plain mustard is zero calories. I’m making much smarter choices now and hoping I’ll see difference soon.

    8. After paying a lot for a nutritionist who offered a pricey monthly program, I found a registered dietitian who charged by the session and was amazing. She did a very detailed program that helped me meet my goals, she was very informed on emotional issues, and she took a non-faddish, non-extreme approach. I would work with an RD and would be skeptical of anyone who asked me to buy a pricey monthly program.

    9. I just posted about Myfitness Pal and Fitbit and I’m in mod. I wanted to add one other great feature. At the end of the day when you “close” your diary, it tells you what you would weight in 5 weeks if every day you did the same thing as that day. It’s nice to see if I’m trending downward or upward. And if I have a day where I go wild I can see why that has to be limited or else I’d weigh 5+ more pounds in 5 weeks. It makes my goals more attainable like hey, today wasn’t so bad, if I keep this up, I’ll be at my goal in 10 weeks.

      Again though, be careful with inputting your actual goals too early or the suggestions will seem too extreme.

    10. CBT therapy can be very helpful when combined with a reasonable, healthy food plan. If you have not yet checked it out – the Weight Watchers plan is reasonable & healthy. I can definitely say CBT therapy is what I have found most helpful.

      1. This. I use WW for maintenance. The current program encourages whole foods, lots of veggies and lean protein, and drinking water and keeping active but doesn’t ‘ban’ any foods. I liked that it encouraged general activity like walking and gardening which is much more approachable when you are starting out vs HIIT and the like.

    11. FYI – I would recommend a registered dietician (RD) instead of a nutritionist. My friend is an RD and the training is robust – a masters degree followed by a year long internship.

      Definitely look and see if your health insurance or your employee assistance program offers meeting with a RD

    12. I suggest going to a good hospital weight loss center. The Center will offer doctors, medications, support groups, nutritionists and more. I would never have thought of using medications, but my doctor suggest two, saxenda and phentermine, and after 30 years of being obese, my weight is normal. My body and hormones were very out of whack, and I finally was able to get a grip. I wold not just do a nutritionist–I bet you know a lot about food, calories, food groups, etc. It is not about just the food, it is about hormone and hunger management. Good luck!

    13. Just wanted to chime in that you should check with your local hospitals if you are in a mid-sized city or larger. In my own city, the local hospital partners with a gym and a nutritionist to offer inclusive packages, most of which are covered by insurance to some extent with a dr referral. YMMV but I’ve had friends who have used this to great success. I would also suggest talking to your primary care doctor and asking for lab work to see if there is any underlying health problem. This turned out to be the case for me when I wasn’t losing weight on 1200 calories a day.
      I am hypothyroid and have found that traditional calorie counting does not work well for me. I’ve had the best success with intermittent fasting paired with moderate carbs/carb cycling. This approach was recommended to me by me endocrinologist. Weight loss and maintenance is definitely not a one size fits all approach. Best of luck to finding what works best for you.

      1. Thanks for this and to everyone! I am the OP, and I am surprised to hear that insurance covers some of these! For years I have struggled to even buy vitamins/supplements as they seem to not even be covered under HSA! I have had multiple PCPs, all of whom have told me I need to exercise and lose weight but have never suggested/helped beyond that and all this while I have been beating myself up about it all. I was looking at someone who came well-reviewed but doesn’t seem to be a RD instead a “Registered Holistic Nutritionist” and Board Certified through AADP (American Association of Drugless Practitioners)

        1. Get an RD – neither of the other two things you mentioned are real certifications. You need legal advice you get a lawyer, you need auditing you get an accountant, you need food/diet management advice you get an RD. They are university educated health care professionals. ‘holistic nutritionist’ is not a university degree.

    14. My Mom saw a nutritionist through her YMCA membership. (I’m not sure if she was a registered dietitian, which is the certification you’d want.)

  3. I have pain in the lower right of my back that is getting worse. It is not a spinal pain. I have spinal pain too, this is pain that feel like someone has punched an organ (or a particular spot inside me near my spine) till it’s pulp. The pain is exacerbated with my cycle, making me wonder if this is a reproductive organ issue. The last two months the pain hasn’t fully dissipated between cycles like it normally does.
    When I get the rare massage I am consistently scolded for not stretching and not tending to the sciatic nerve/muscle (I don’t even know the correct verbage. I am told to do more yoga. I’m horrible at follow through). So I know that’s also an issue, or perhaps the issue.
    Does anyone have a similar experience and any advice on who to start with to get help to resolve this issue? I don’t know if I need to see a GP, OBGYN, a Chiropractor or just book appointments with all three (oof). I am getting analysis paralysis, and my history of complaining about period pain issues to an OBGYN has usually been met with, after sonograms and inspection “you’re fine, this is normal”, so I am loathe to pay money to someone who won’t help. I don’t think this pain is normal though.
    Any suggestions?

    1. You find a GYN who listens. It could be endometriosis, which often takes years to diagnose.

    2. The worst lower back pain I had was from a kidney infection and it was horrible. I’d get this checked out from the health care provider you trust most — GYN or GP. It was like someone had kicked me behind my waist, HARD.

    3. Sounds like you should see a doctor, either your GP or an Ob/Gyn who is not the one telling you everything is fine since it’s clearly not.

    4. Get your gallbladder checked! Blood work plus ultrasound. Usually it’s upper right abdominal quadrant pain but it presents as back pain in some people. My sister did physio for almost a year for back pain when it was her gallbladder.

    5. Have you considered SI joint pain? It can hurt like the dickens, but the fact that you also have spine pain would make me think you might want to consider an orthopedist. Have you ever been checked for hip dysplasia? It can cause all sorts of issues.

  4. Because I’m not ready to take the subway to work yet, I’m going to start biking to work.

    I have a coworker who does so, so I’ve checked with her about routes, storing the bike at work, city biking, etc.

    It’s a 3 mile, pretty flat ride so shouldn’t be too bad. For those of you who bike to work – how do you still look presentable at work? We don’t have showers or a locker room in this building. Are there any bike supplies I should make sure I have on hand?

    1. If it’s a flat 3 miles, you don’t need any special gear besides a rack or pannier for your bag, lots of lights, and a good helmet. Good luck!

      1. Yeah, I’m pretty presentable after a 2 mile hilly ride and not too bad after 4-5 miles. I’d be fine if it was flat. I’d just make sure you had wipes and a tube of deodorant in your desk drawer.
        I love the Topeak bike rack system – I have a basket and a baby seat and it is super easy to remove / swap things around.

        1. Definitely definitely get a rack and carry your stuff in panniers not on your back. In the muggy summer, very good idea to fully change clothes at the office, but the rest of the year when my commute was 2.7 hilly miles I could usually get away with wearing bike friendly business casual outfits and maybe taking off or adding a layer.

          Machine washable clothes were key for me, stretchy ankle pants are good, dresses are good, pencil skirts are out.

          If you don’t have anywhere to shower that’s fine just bring wipes, deodorant, and take the time to change/freshen up, do any makeup after you arrive. When I had my short commute I would shower at home in the AM so I was clean and my hair was still wet. By the time I got to work it was slightly dry and then the water + sweat would dry all the way within the first hour or so.

          Enjoy! I miss my bike commute so much now with WFH.

    3. Just bike slowly and you won’t get sweaty (unless the weather is hot enough that walking would also make you sweat). It may take practice if you’re used to fast, athletic bike rides for exercise, but commuting is a different animal if you want to arrive in presentable condition. Make sure your bike has big mud guards if you’re doing this in or after rain. Baby wipes or a washcloth to do a wipedown in the bathroom is sufficient for me.

    4. I biked in shorts and tank top. Put a sheath dress in my bag to put on at work (quick/easy change in the washroom). Kept shoes at the office. Tossed jewelry in my purse and added when I change. Quick swipe of my neck/underarms with a baby wipe if it was warm. If the weather wasn’t too hot I might bike in ankle pants and a tank then add a blouse or cardigan when arriving.

    5. Haven’t tried to commute to work by bike (was the plan for spring 2020, sigh), but do a fair amount of around-town commuting for errands by bike. I always bring a small bike pump, spare tube, and a tire lever in case I get a flat. I do not have quick release wheels so I also have a small wrench to take the wheel nuts off. I’ve never used any of these out on the road but feel better having them. And I have lots of flashy lights for the moment it gets a bit dark.

    6. I also tried to leave a little earlier to give myself time to cool down once I got there. Sit outside for 5-10 mins before going in to cool down helps a lot.

  5. Any Bay Area readers familiar with living in the North Bay and commuting to the city or East Bay occasionally? I’m a lifelong Bay Area resident, but I’ve spent very little time in the North Bay. Now that this pandemic has hit and I’m craving space, I’m wondering if my husband and I can make the case for permanent remote work and if we can decamp to Sonoma or Santa Rosa or Petaluma. I think it would be an easier sell to our bosses if we had the option of coming to the office a few times a month, which I think could be doable from those cities (as long as it’s not every day!). We’re looking for more affordable housing, peace and quiet, and good access to the outdoors; sadly, where I grew up on the Peninsula is now lightyears out of our price range. Would love any opinions on good towns to check out and thoughts on occasional commuting.

    Also, definitely aware of wildfire risk…why is California so hard?

    1. Totally doable especially now that the Richmond Bridge expanded. Sonoma or Santa Rosa would be quite a hike; Petaluma is fun and pretty. Check out Novato too! It’s quite suburban but has a very cute downtown area, all the amenities, nice vibe and access to everything.

      1. I second Novato. It is a great area to live and a doable commute if you are only doing it a few days a month.

    2. I’m from Sonoma County although have lived on the East Coast for the last decade, so my experience is more based on historical knowledge and then my occasional visits to family.

      101 into the city is an awful, awful commute. Doubtful into the East Bay is much better. Doable for the occasional trip into SF but seems like it would be soul crushing on any regular basis. I know there is the train and the ferry now for going into SF but not sure how practical it is to cobble the two together.

      Geography matters. Petaluma is probably a difference in commute time of at least 40 minutes if not an hour+ as it’s further south and close to the freeway. It’s got a pretty charming downtown and more historical character than, say, Rohnert Park.

      Personally, my favorite parts of Sonoma County are in the west county: Sebastopol is the best. It’s got a darling downtown, proximity to the coast and redwoods, excellent restaurants, good ice cream.

    3. One of my longtime close friends lives in Santa Rosa. I’m sure you’re aware, parts of the city burned down in 2018 in the wildfires that year – we were visiting them when the fire started and it was pretty hairball; we were scared for us and we were scared for them. They fortunately did not lose their home but they have had to evacuate more than once since then because of fires or air quality issues from fires. They have also had to evacuate when PG&E shut off power to the city for days at a time. It’s not an inconsequential inconvenience. They are really worried what’s going to happen in the fall if my friend is still WFH full time and PG&E cuts power. They have two small children so that’s a big consideration.

      That being said, we actually really liked the city when we visited them and they love living there. The city is cute and there’s lots of access to all kinds of nature activities. IMO, it is not a commutable situation back and forth to San Francisco or Oakland. My friend tried it, doing a 3 days from home/2 days in the office in Oakland and quickly got another job. The traffic situation is no joke (and I am sure it’s worse now since I think a lot of folks have decamped from San Francisco for parts north) and it takes 2+ hours on a good day. If you were going to be fully remote I think it could be okay but I don’t think being in the office more than 1 day a week is something I’d want to try.

      1. Also in the Bay Area and dreading fire season this year. I don’t want to evacuate during a freaking pandemic…or have the air quality be as bad as it was previously.

    4. In before times, this was a very heavily trafficked commute and lower RE prices reflected that. Hard to say what will happen after this – I think there could be an overall sticking of more remote work such that traffic improves overall. Not sure I’d want to place a bet on that at this stage though. While not comparable in terms of the potential impact to the way we work, I’ve lived here through prior bubble pops and seen the population decline before but it always comes back. Not quite the same thing, but I think we’re also seeing some Bay Area flight right now that I wouldn’t bet on lasting forever. All that said, it’s sure tempting to decamp North (we have a little formerly weekend now lots of the time spot in West County Sonoma, and I could see spending much more time there in the future). It just feels hard to know what the regional traffic patterns will bring in time.

    5. Traffic up in north bay commuting to the peninsula is a non-starter for me, even if I was remote 4 days out of 5. The only way I’d do it is if my commute was compatible with the ferry. I do love the ferry.

      Living in a high fire hazard zone in oakland, prepare to pay through the nose for homeowners insurance (note, the only companies that would insure my house are USAA and Lloyd’s of London- I kid you not), and prepare for PG&E to shut off your power 3x/yr.

      And California is so hard because living here is great (weather, natural beauty, economy, population diversity, education system etc) and everyone wants to.

      1. It’s wonderful to live here, but at least in my Peninsula town, part of the reason it’s so extremely expensive is that my community is staunchly against most development of anything but single family homes.

  6. I recall a discussion sometime last week about IUDs. I’m considering switching from hormonal birth control pills to a copper IUD (Paraguard) – supposedly hormones increase your risk of breast cancer, which I have a family history of (btw, I’m almost 40). I’ve asked the dr about painkillers or relaxers since most people on here made it sound so painful! Any additional advice or insight? Thanks!

    1. I had a paraguard between my kids. Insertion was not awful, I may have taken a regular advil ahead but that was it.
      Biggest side effect was having INTENSELY heavy periods for those 3 or so years. Like, soaking through an illegally big tampon in an hour Heavy. It was bad (but better than pregnancy at that point).
      It is totally unclear to me if that was a side effect of the paraguard, normal postpartum hormonal effects, the fact that i was off hormonal BC for the first time in a decade, etc so YMMV

        1. Oh, not three years continuously!!! They were regular 28 day cycles, just 2-3 days each month were like a horror film :-(

          1. post baby periods are crazy for a lot of people, but for some reason they don’t warn you! Mine hasn’t been as bad as that ( also no IUD here), but I laughably thought it would be a good time to switch to a menstrual cup. I really need a full pad and huge tampon every 2-3 hours for the first 2 days.

          2. OH! Lol, I misread that. Thanks, and whew, though I don’t really want to be in a horror film, I’m sorry to hear it for you!

    2. I’m in the UK and the NHS doesn’t give out relaxers, especially for people who showed up at the appointment with a big headed baby. I am a total wuss about pain and it wasn’t comfortable, but it was fine. Like a bad pap smear. I took some Tylenol and curled up on the couch when I got home, but was fine the next day.

      1. OP – thank you – fingers crossed that if I move ahead with it it won’t be uncomfortable! I appreciate the insight. The anticipation alone is painful!

    3. If I remember correctly, the study about the risk of breast cancer from hormones doesn’t take into account the stress on the body from undergoing the menstrual cycle monthly for 40+ years (if hormonal medicine isn’t used).

      1. OP – thank you – that’s really interesting. I’m not 100% clear on the study, particularly given that it seems somewhat outdated. I believe it suggests women are up to one and a half times more likely to get breast cancer with hormonal birth control (however, the hormones used in the past were higher doses). I’ve got a family history mostly of breast cancer but also one incidence of ovarian – so neither choice is without its ‘risks’!

        1. My GYN told me that the hormone dose from a hormonal IUD (like a Mirena) is so small, and so localized, that there is little evidence or logical reason to believe that it contributes to developing breast cancer. My mom had post-menopausal breast cancer and I have a Mirena. I asked my GYN about removing it and she told me there was no reason to and due to my past history she was more worried about gynecological complications that may result if I am not on some kind of hormonal birth control, and she thought the Mirena was a much better option than the Pill. I am getting a replacement next year when this current one needs to get removed.

          An actual doctor is a great source of information here. One study doesn’t necessarily constitute definitive or conclusive evidence.

        2. The breast cancer- hormonal birth control pill studies used an older cohort of women who were using birth control as hormone replacement therapy. The link between birth control and breast cancer in younger women is much much much less clear FYI.

          _signed a breast cancer researcher

          1. Thank you both. I’m sorry about your mom and hope she’s ok. An oncologist initially suggested it and my OB-GYN quickly agreed/is open to scheduling it. I haven’t really discussed it more so I’ll ask the OB-GYN for further insight. And thanks – I wasn’t clear between the hormonal replacement therapy and what I thought may be another study.

    4. I didn’t have the same experience as the women who posted about how theirs was excrutiating. Mine must have been easy enough that I don’t recall any pain. That’s not to say there wasn’t discomfort, but I can’t even remember the insertion!

      2. Same here. It was a twinge of discomfort, but it was a non-event. I’ve had two IUDs inserted and it was fine both times.

      3. No kids and only a tiny twinge for me (with Mirena), though I spotted for months and that sucked. But highly recommend!

      4. Chiming in with more non-event stories of insertion and long-term love of my Mirena. I’m on my third IUD and I LOVE it. I’ve never been pregnant or given birth and the insertion and removal was fine. I had a bit of discomfort, similar to a pap smear and a touch of spotting for a couple of days afterward. I drove myself home from my appointments and resumed normal activities the next day. I felt a bit of cramping in the evening but nothing requiring more than a cup of hot tea and a Tylenol to relax (basically what I would do if I had cramps during my period). As you’ve seen on this thread, the pain varies widely. I’ve heard that the Paraguard is much more painful than the Mirena. One of my friends texted me after her Paraguard insertion asking why I didn’t tell her the pain would be so terrible when I raved about my IUD, so YMMV. I plan to get another Mirena when this one expires. I’ve asked my doctor if it’s ok to just keep replacing them until I hit menopause, and she said it should be fine. I haven’t found any research on having a low-dose IUD for 20-30 years straight, and I ask at each appointment if there’s any new studies that show that my plan is risky.

    5. So, I’ll counter Cb and say my insertion was fairly painful for me (though it was similar to a pap smear, just a super extreme version for me), but I also have a low pain tolerance and have never given birth. I did take OTC meds before hand and we had scheduled it right around when my period was due, which is supposed to help. However, I curled up on my couch that evening and then next day worked from home so I could have sweats on and hot water pad and by the second or third day, I was fine, with just an occasional cramp.

      1. Oh dear. Thanks for sharing your experience – sounds so personal and variable. I hope you’re happy you did it (I assume so)! Fingers crossed it’s not so bad if I do go ahead…

        1. Oh, 3 years in and I love it! I don’t have a period and when I was exclusively dating someone, it was great for gardening. Knowing what it’s like now, I am worried about the reinsertion, but I know on the other side, it’s well worth it.

          Definitely agree that it’s a personal thing, so stories vary.

      2. I’ve never given birth but do have a high pain threshold, so I thought I’d be fine. And getting an IUD inserted was one of the worst experiences of my life. My body handled it so badly that they took it right back out, after I’d spent 30 minutes on the exam table curled in the fetal position shaking and puking from the pain. My gyno said that level of reaction was very uncommon, but definitely not unheard of.

        So for the OP, I think this is one of those things where you’re never going to know how your body is going to react until you actually do it. I would drug yourself to the greatest degree recommended by your doctor, even if you think you’ll be fine.

        1. Mine was pretty screamingly awful (no kids), and continued to ache for a week. That being said, I havent had to think about contraception for 10 years, which is wonderful.

          1. If it’s helpful for anyone who is not opposed to hormones but is leery of an IUD, I ended up with the arm implant after my IUD was a bust. They’re good for four years and have the same level of efficacy as an IUD.

          2. I had one for 4 years. The insertion itself wasn’t awful, but I literally couldn’t sit in one position for more than 5 minutes. I could sit for a bit, then stand up for a bit. The only position I could stay in was lying down, so I was off for several days.

            I have been told that my experience wasn’t typical but it wasn’t unusual, either.

    6. I’ve never had a baby so maybe that’s why mine was painful. I tried to relax as much as possible but still it took two tries with a NP who came high recommended by a friend and does IUD insertions all the time. I’m still so glad I did it. Just block off a few hours after so you can drink tea and rest a little bit after. My friend who has had two inserted said the first one hurt more but after birthing 2 babies she didn’t even feel the second one she had put in after baby #2.

      1. Yay! It sounds like people do like them long term. This sounds like a pragmatic approach, thank you.

    7. My OBGYN didn’t give out any kind of relaxers since they can backfire and be more painful in some instances. I did get Xanax, however, and I took .25mg 45 mins before the appointment and I took another .25mg sublingually right before they got started. I found that it didn’t lessen the pain, but it helped me be as relaxed as possible (which probably did prevent pain because I wasn’t tensing up when they were inserting it). I also found that while it didn’t hurt, I really didn’t care that it hurt (thanks Xanax).

      1. Wow, maybe this is the way to go. The anticipation and tension can be just as bad alone and as a cause – thanks!

      2. You’re welcome. I also had someone driving me there/back– you should not drive on benzos. I also found the pain like a 6.5/10. Very doable and I love my IUD. But mine is hormone based, not copper.

    8. I had a very painful Mirena insertation, far more painful than an annual exam. The doctor had given me a medicine that I inserted vaginally to help dilate, and it still hurt a lot. Never given birth, so maybe that’s why? I didn’t take any painkillers in advance. Wish I did! I opted to not use another IUD after it was removed. Good luck! I hope your experience is better.

    9. I think the pain varies for everyone. I found it more painful than childbirth, but I think I may be an outlier in that I passed out from my IUD and didn’t mind birth at all. The pain was short-lived but man is it memorable.

      1. I also found IUD insertion more painful than unmedicated childbirth. I had 3 IUDs. Each time I wished I’d gotten someone to drive me home.

    10. So my understanding is that the link to breast cancer isn’t strong, and there’s counter evidence that the pill protects against other cancers that’s a stronger correlation (not a doctor, have asked these questions of my doc, but didn’t take copious notes, just recall enough to feel comfortable). My understanding is also that an IUD is less likely to be painful IF you’ve had kids. If you haven’t, painful and doesn’t always subside. This bears out with a lot of my friends who said it was excruciating and had them removed / went back on the pill. Personally, the pill works for me and has other benefits like reduced/no periods and will make the transition into menopause easier. I’m don’t think there’s a perfect solution, sadly, so for me it’s he best of a menu of crummy choices.

    11. You’ve gotten a lot of feedback, and it definitely sounds like it varies a lot from person to person, but I’ll throw in my two cents. I’ve had it twice and it was very painful both times; I’ve never had kids, so don’t know if that is a factor. I took Advil the second time and it didn’t help at all. I had plans to run errands afterwards the first time, but I found it difficult to even drive myself home, so I would not make plans for the rest of your day. But the good news is the next day I felt fine and I haven’t had a period in seven years!

      1. OP – thank you! Yes, a lot of helpful – and varying – feedback. Not surprisingly, seems to vary to a significant degree by person. Wow I didn’t realize it could be so painful, though – and some good advice about potentially having a driver. I’ve reached out to both the oncologist and OB-GYN for further clarity on the risk of hormonal birth control to breast cancer. Because honestly I’m ok without going through this procedure! But if it would ultimately reduce the risk of breast cancer – for which my family history is higher than the risk and incidence of ovarian (also of consideration, but less so), then I guess I should try to reduce that risk. I’ve been happily on the pill for years! Thank you so much everyone!

        1. I will say – I do love having mine, and would go through it again (will, actually, when this one expires) because in the long run it has been worth it for me. Good luck with whatever you decide!

    12. I had a TERRIBLE insertion with my first IUD– like almost fainted. It wasn’t the pain per se… I can’t really describe it. But I had to stay at the doctor’s office for a few hours before they felt comfortable with me leaving. I had only taken advil before hand. The cramps were terrible for about 48 hours and then stopped. For my second insertion, my OBGYN gave me a Xanax and I had no issues.

      Both insertions were pre-childbirth. I have also read that if you have really painful period cramps w/o birth control you are more likely to have a bad insertion (which I did). My OBGYN said I was in the >5% of people she’s treated that reacted like that. That being said, once I got past those first two days, my experience was great. The migraines I was having on the pill stopped. My hair also got thicker again. (It apparently had thinned on the pill.)

      1. I commented above, but I had a similar experience in thinking I was going to pass out after, but I think mine was because I had amped myself up so much ahead of time about the pain and what it would be that it was the adrenaline leaving. But someone talking about taking Xanex before might be the way I go when I get mine redone in a few years.

    13. Hmm. I’d get your story straight about the hormones study before you make actual plans, or before you spread misinformation to other people!

      Anecdotally, I had a mirena for 5 years, pre-kids. I had a doctor try and fail to put it in twice, so I went home, scheduled another appointment for a week later, and had a successful insertion. The poking-the-cervix part was similar to a pap smear- the real insertion I could feel a sharp cramp for a few minutes, somewhere behind/below my belly button. It took my breath away- I literally said “ow!” but took myself home on the metra, and laid low the rest of the day, went to work the next day just fine. I had a similar experience having it taken out. This pain was 100% worth it- especially as I didn’t have a period for five years after that. FIVE YEARS of worry free birth control and no periods was well worth the price of admissions. I took an advil about two hours before the removal – but didn’t require any further drugs.

    14. IUDs are so hard to gauge because it seems like there’s no real predictor of how your body is going to react. For me (medium pain tolerance, never given birth), I got a Kyleena and it was totally fine. I wouldn’t get one in every day of the week, but I was white knuckling for maybe 15 seconds and it was over. I’ve noticed my cramps are more painful than when I was on the pill (but the flow itself is lighter? Strange), but nothing unbearable. I love it and am only mad I put off getting one for as long as I did.

  7. DH’s employer is being very passive aggressive about returning to the office. He works in a ~8 person satellite office of a larger company, but it is a total open concept floor plan – no individual offices. At the beginning hey were great, but since our state (TX) opened back up, they have been less than stellar. In May DH went back to the office for about a month and then numbers got bad so even though his office was open, he decided to stay home and was told that was fine. The office head just went on vacation to FL and upon returning emailed that he doesn’t think it is necessary to close the office again, even though the local government is asking people to stay home, and that he doesn’t think he needs to stay home for 2 weeks after returning from his vacation since he drove and wasn’t in the “bad” part of FL. He also doesn’t think it is necessary to ask people to wear masks when they get up from their desks and go to the printer or kitchen, but noted that someone should tell him if they feel differently. A few of his colleagues gathered last week in someone’s home for a happy hour. Are most of you continuing to work from home unless mandated back in the office?

    1. oh lord. This whole story is why cases are out of control! Good for your DH for asking to continue WFH.

      Large employers in my area are talking about starting to bring more folks back to the office…. in January.

    2. I’ve decided that I’m never going back to the office. After witnessing how my boss uses working from home as a tool to reward or punish people and how she interprets the regulations to fit her agenda, I do not trust her at all to make decisions about my own health and safety. I will leave and find a different job before going back to the office, ever. If I had been treated with respect throughout this pandemic and like an adult who can manage my own risk, I would feel very differently. Industry is 100% remote friendly.

      1. Good for you for being self protective! And sorry to hear you have to be such an advocate for basic protections.

    3. Just a little input from a different developed nation. My country’s covid cases on a per capita basis are a small fraction of what the US has, and aside from essential staff (like truly essential, as in the country would be in imminent danger without them) my office of 5k+ people will not be reopening until a vaccine or heard immunity, so 18+ months.

      2. I’m in South Korea and we have ~60 new cases per day, for a population of 50m. Scaled to the US, that would be 330 cases daily for the ENTIRE US. My office is open BUT people are free to work from home, masks are mandatory in all common spaces including elevators, cafeteria, and restrooms. Bars and nightclubs shut for the foreseeable future. This situation in the US is completely bonkers.

    4. Your DH’s boss and coworkers suck. I am actually really happy with how my large employer is handling this. They’ve encouraged us to continue working from home and only be on-site to perform essential functions that can’t be handled from home. They’re reevaluating on a monthly basis, but all signs point to WFH through the fall at least.

    5. I’m working from home indefinitely. If you had asked me in May, I would have said we might be back in the office after Labor Day. Now I don’t think I’ll go back until 2021 sometime. My firm is basically taking the approach “you can come in if you really need to, but otherwise, we’d prefer you just keep working from home.”

    6. I’m outside of New Orleans, where we have pretty high case numbers. My office is similar, except they are requiring everyone to be in the office all day, unless you’re sick or have a health condition that places you at higher risk. It’s not a completely open office, thankfully, but nobody is wearing masks when going to the kitchen or printer or whatever. There are meetings with unmasked clients in small conference rooms.

      The people in their 20s and 50s are going out to bars and restaurants. The people in their 30s are sending their kids to camp and soon to school. Everyone seems to have vacationed in Alabama or Florida this summer.

      Several people in the office are home sick and waiting the results of tests. The office has done nothing, and I only know this because the administrator’s office is next to mine and certain people talk loudly. My assistant was sick on Friday, and another one of her bosses made fun of her for leaving early (he called it the “Friday flu”).

      Being in the office is not important for us to do our job. My bosses just refuse to adapt to technology. (They can use it, just didn’t want to.) I was doing much better work in March and April when I was home and not worried about getting sick all the time. I can’t tell if I have anxiety or just legitimate stress about a terrifying situation.

      3. Also in New Orleans, and I feel your last sentence so, so, so much. With everyone here living their lives like nothing is going on, it’s very hard to know if you’re being realistically safe, or if you’re overreacting. And, to be honest, it is really amplifying the feeling of isolation because I feel like I’m the only one not doing all the things. (FWIW, I think that we are being realistically safe, but it is definitely a mind f**k!) So, hugs and commiseration from an internet stranger.

      4. this sounds awful. i hope you are able to do what you can in the office to protect yourself.

      5. What industry are you in? I’m in New Orleans and no one is in my office at all (law) other than one employee a week to take care of mail/ paperwork.

    7. I can’t get over that any company that can have people WFH isn’t making that the rule right now. At least most of SF/the Bay Area is taking this approach, I can’t imagine what we’d look like otherwise (it’s bad enough as it is).

    8. My company has offices around the US and the CEO has stated that we won’t be re-opening until the fall sometime. I’m glad they are taking the cautious approach. However, I work in a small satellite office and they have decided to completely shut down the building. So now I’ll be an official remote employee.

      Your husband’s employer is ridiculous. I’m glad he’s continuing to WFH.

  8. So, Trump is using the military and federal agents against political dissidents in Portland. For everyone that was screaming about how masks are an infringement on liberty, where’s the outrage when fascism is literally smacking people in the face? Call your reps today.

    1. Right? All those people in Michigan who were so angry about not getting haircuts seem remarkably unconcerned about actual authoritarianism.

    2. Yep. And isn’t this the exact kind of tyranny that pro-2A people claim to be protecting themselves against? Where are those people now?

      1. There is no liberty interest in attacking federal courthouses. We’re the liberals who fight fascists like you!

        1. I don’t think you know what the word ‘attacking’ means if you think moms in white tshirts linking arms outside a courthouse and chanting words is ‘attacking’. They got teargassed.

    3. This is a disgusting lie.

      Trump is using the military to prevent destruction of a federal courthouse. People attacking a federal courthouse are not “dissidents;” they are fascist traitors. FULL STOP.

      The cause of liberty DEMANDS that people who attack federal courthouses are arrested. FULL STOP.

      1. Just like all those people who invaded the Michigan house of representatives got arrested?

        Quick FYI – liberty never involves unidentified men grabbing people off the street and shoving them into unmarked vans.

        1. Yup. The moment peaceful protesters are being whisked into vans and held without charges, you need to be incredibly concerned about totalitarianism. With Trump, of course, you should have been concerned since election day 2016.

        2. This. I’m hearing less about arrests of people with fireworks in their hands aimed at the courthouse and a lot more about unmarked vans patrolling the streets and detaining people without telling them why they’ve been detained or on what authority. Can you imagine how traumatizing it must be for anyone — especially women and survivors of s*xual assault — to be pulled into an unmarked van by strange men? Holy god.

      3. Wow I’m so impressed by all of your FULL STOPS. Where do I sign up? Does the pu55y grabbing happen before or after I sign?

      4. I am here in Portland. My friends and religious community members are the ones who have been protesting the last 50+ days and sharing videos of the protests. It is not the protestors who are violent.

      1. They weren’t there to fight back against peaceful BLM protesters getting tear-gassed either. #freedom

    5. I just so, so wish there were consequences for conservative hypocrisy. There never are.

  9. Has anyone had experience renting a condo in Chicago? Not an apartment in a rental-only apartment building with a whole leasing office, but a condo owned by a single person? Are there broker fees involved? Does the renter or the landlord pay them? I think the ones I’m seeing are “MLS listings” being aggregated on various sites.

    3. This is very common and in Chicago brokers are not really a thing in the same way I understand them to be in NYC.

    4. I’ve rented an apartment and rented out an apartment in Chicago (1-2 BR in the 2-3K range). For something like that you don’t need a broker. At least a few years ago, Craigslist or some of the other free sites were good – I saw tons of listings and got a lot of applicants.

  10. A bunch of us parents are trying to have a live homework help site when school starts next month, with each parent taking a subject for a grade level (so one person does 6th grade language arts, another does science, another math; ditto fifth grade).

    If you have done something like this that may be ongoing for 6-12 months, is it better just to do it with zoom calls (maybe using the recording options for kids who can’t join in), a YouTube Channel (e.g., Green School Homework Help), or a dedicated website (greenhomeworkhelp.org)? The goal is just to have something easy to find and access and have kids/parents be able to log in and follow along as people provide live assistance (a lot of lessons may be pre-recorded, which I don’t think helps you learn things like long division, etc.).

    1. I might consider YouTube for pre-recorded lessons + a well organized Slack or Discord, unless moderation is a big concern.

    2. OP, you might get more responses on the Moms site, since it’s crickets over here on the regular site.

    3. Try checking home school blogs and sites, especially from people who were homeschooling pre-Covid. I think you’re not getting answers here because this site is geared toward working women who wouldn’t have needed to do anything like this before March. I’ve heard it’s common for home school parents to split up subjects like this as kids get older.

      Also, have you checked whether there are community resources that offer live tutoring? My state and local libraries offer free, live homework help for grades K-12, now via the internet. My child is just now starting kindergarten, so I haven’t tried it and don’t know its quality, but it’s worth looking into.

    4. If you want it to be live interactive assistance I think you need to use a video conferencing program and have a schedule. My husband is a HS teacher and did prerecorded lessons in the spring, but then had a daily office hour when he would answer questions over … Zoom I think? Maybe Microsoft Teams, but Zoom would work. You could then post the recordings on some kind of website for later viewing. I am guessing it would be easier to organize the videos on a website than in YouTube. If your school is already using a specific platform, e.g. Google Classroom, it would probably be easiest for families if you can integrate with that.

  11. There are many things I like about working from home, but the monotony is really getting to me. I am fortunate to have a guest room that’s serving as my office so I can’t complain about my setup too much. I am just tired of being at home all the time and not having any separation between work and home! Going on a morning walk around the neighborhood helps, but I am getting legitimately down and depressed from being at home and barely leaving my neighborhood — and this is coming from a card-carrying introvert.

    Also, despite the number of zoom meetings on my calendar, I feel disconnected from my coworkers and realizing how few deep, caring relationships I have at work. In the past six months, I’ve had maybe 3-4 “just to chat” video conversations. My immediate team members are not that into Slack, except to ask questions. I am friendly but have never relied on work to meet my friendship needs, if that makes sense, but I am getting lonely and am finding it hard to care about anything work-related.

    Can anyone relate? And how do I shake myself out of this funk?

    1. IDK, but I think it’s like I can run a 5K because there is a crowd of people doing the same thing and I try to be better b/c I can see a good example. WFH to me is why I don’t really care about running if it is just me and wind up doing a lame run/walk. I need the esprit de corps or something. Like the positive aspect of peer pressure.

      1. OP here, and I think this is it, right here. I can fly solo for awhile, but I really need the camaraderie of being around people working toward the same goal. Maybe that’s a failing of my personality, but it is what it is.

        1. I’m in the same boat- I’m a closet extrovert and I am energized by working with other people and the sense of team that comes with it. I’ve been trying to set up more interact-with-friends type things (but I’m not great at it) and remember that my coworkers are not there for socializing.

    2. Why don’t you have any separation working at home? Are you closing your computer at the end of the day? What are your hobbies and interests?

      I think expecting “deep, caring” relationships is too much, honestly. I aim for friendly and kind and that’s it.

      1. Yes, I close the computer at the end of the day and basically don’t enter my office after 5. But my home has always been my sanctuary, and it just DOESN’T right now when I am there all the time! Hobbies include trying to keep my 2 socially deprived kids from killing each other, running, reading, and gardening (with dirt). That’s all good but I’m just restless and bored overall.

        1. OP, I am you. I was talking with a former colleague this past weekend and we have this same problem. You’re not alone. Ever since we moved into this house, I have had a dedicated home office with a door with a dedicated large desk, dual monitors with laptop dock, keyboard, mouse. If I don’t remember or actively force myself to do it, I do not get outside (and I live in a single family home on a beautiful tree lined street with wonderful neighbors, so I don’t have any excuse not to take a walk). My home was my sanctuary, but now it’s filled with 3 humans 24/7 and our nanny 45 hours a week and it’s no longer the retreat I need it to be. But I also don’t have anywhere to go. I am lucky to have a supportive husband who has encouraged me to take a weekend day and go on long drives while he watches our son. That’s helped a small amount while I’m out, but then I’m sort of dreading being home again. I don’t have an answer. If I figure one out, I’ll share it.

    3. Feeling similarly. If you’re a bicyclist, maybe try biking instead of a neighborhood walk to see some new places? I’ve also considered sitting outside worth my laptop at a coffee shop or restaurant that has WiFi but am not sure I’m ready for that yet.

      1. My wife and I will sometimes bike or drive to a different neighborhood and walk around. As a bonus, one of the prettiest local neighborhoods has a coffeeshop with a walk-up window.

    4. I’ve been in a fully remote job for two years and this is how I feel about it. I don’t have any interactions with coworkers, so it is definitely lonely. I think the best we can do is set defined times to start and stop work and then put away the computer; figure out an exercise routine; go for walks; and try to have some human interaction. I agree that Zoom is not ideal. I have been having socially distanced lunches and happy hours with friends in our back yards occasionally. I don’t know if that is possible where you are, but it helps. I also started back up with therapy and got a dog. Honestly, it just sucks right now. Remote work wasn’t for me pre pandemic, and the pandemic has definitely made it worse. Hang in there.

    5. Commiseration but no suggestions. I miss my friends. I miss going out. I miss shopping. I miss my coworkers. I miss seeing people. These are natural reactions to living in a pandemic, or so says my therapist. Hugs from an internet stranger.

    6. I get it, I’ve just started doing 2x/week zoom launches to just chat and eat with co-worker friends and friends at other places too who I would have met for lunch IRL. I’m also scheduling 30 minute coffee zooms with friends a day or two a week. It’s not perfect, but it’s feeling a lot better – I’ve always had friendships at work and missed that part the most. I’m guessing you know people who feel similarly, so my suggestion would be to make the invite yourself

    7. I have been doing weekly calls with my brother and also setting a call or chat each week with a friend or retired colleague, just to catch up. It’s been helping because it reminds me that after this I will still have a network of people to lunch with, visit, etc.

  12. Hello! I’m hoping someone here has experience with complicated moving and can give some advice. My NYC apartment lease is up in August. Given the continued covid-19 and remote work situation, my plan is to stay with my parents in Pennsylvania for the rest of the calendar year, with the goal of getting a new lease in January 2021 (the earliest I imagine we will return to the office), probably in NJ, across the Hudson from NYC. Of course, the timing could change as the pandemic evolves, but that’s the current thinking. I feel very lucky that my parents have space and are willing to let me stay with them for so long.

    The thing is, I don’t know how to best manage this in terms of moving my stuff. Do I have to do two separate moves, one now to move all of my stuff somewhere else, and then one when I get my new apartment? Or are there services I should consider where the moving company puts the stuff in storage for this time period? Is the uncertainty re: timing a problem for this latter option, and is 4-5 months too long? I could keep a lot of stuff at my parents’, but there isn’t room here for things like my king bed and dresser, or my couch. I’m coming from a 1Br in NYC, so not a tremendous amount of stuff otherwise. In the past, I’ve always moved directly from one place to another, so I haven’t encountered this issue before.

    Any advice or experience on this would be appreciated!

    1. Oh this isn’t complicated! Movers are used to it. They’ll move your stuff to storage, charge you monthly for the storage, then move it wherever you want.

    2. I rented a Uhaul before, and they gave me several months “free” (included in the rental cost) storage. That may be an option for you. Otherwise, I’d pay for storage, perhaps in one of those pods so you can have the pod come to you and be delivered to wherever you end up.

    3. I’d do the math on storage/moving fees. Some companies will provide it, but it tends to be expensive to store things. (Also, storage places aren’t a guarantee your stuff won’t get damaged, a friend of mine had her things completely destroyed by rats at one of those facilities.) if you just have a 1 bedroom, I’d consider selling your stuff/ donating it now, save your art and things that matter to you, and add that to your startup costs next year. Pretty unlikely that anyone working remotely now will be going back in the dead of winter, so my cost calculation would be a year of storage unless you anticipate needing to get out of your parents house sooner.

    4. Look into Pods or a similar service. You can hire labor to load it up, they charge you by the month for use, and they bring it to your new place when you are ready.
      We had great success with this moving a 3br house during which we were “homeless” for about a month while waiting to close on the new house.
      We just kept clothes and things we needed for the month. Everything else went in the pod. It was cheaper than a moving company packing, unpacking, repacking, and delivering our stuff. Most will give you a couple days of free storage where your things can sit on a truck, but anytime longer and they charge like crazy.

      1. Also if you are moving to/from a downtown apartment or condo, double check that they allow these things. The pod has to be parked on the street and later picked up by a truck. I know some downtown apartments don’t allow them because there’s no where to put it. We did an in-city move with it, but had a residential street with a driveway it could go in.

    5. Protip–if you put ANYTHING in storage, look into lining the boxes or plastic bins with plastic bags. I did a cross-country move in 2018. My friend was over for wine and cheese while I packed. She thought I was insane. I wasn’t–I know that trucks are not waterproof when there’s storms. My boxes were soaking wet, were repacked at the destination (in bags) and returned to me dry. Some of my wood furniture was ruined for being in a puddle for a bit. This was an excellent decision I made and I will never do a long-distance move again without packing all of my possessions in clear plastic bags first.

    6. I don’t know if you’re still reading, but…I would consider moving your stuff to Pennsylvania with you. My sister was in this position (only it was NYC – Chicago burbs) and she is SO GLAD she has her household goods nearby! It’s giving her much more flexibility on the return date and will allow her to move somewhere else if the opportunity presents itself more easily than if she had to return to NY first. The situation with the pandemic is changing every day. Plus it was cheaper for her to rent storage in the Midwest instead of NYC, even adding on the cost of the U-Haul to get it there. I bet you could hire someone to put everything in a rented truck and then drive it out yourself. Just a thought.

    7. my two cents!

      I moved all my stuff out of my NYC apartment and wasn’t sure where to store it (same deal with moving back to the city whenever my job requires me to he in person in the Office but don’t know when that will be). I looked into moving companies and they are happy to store your stuff for a fee (the stuff in my 1bdrm apt would have cost about $400 a month to store). I opted out of it and moved my stuff to where I’m staying for the remainder of WFH.

  13. Can anyone explain who are these people in Charleston going to his rally (in a hotspot, no less)?

  14. What’s up with mod lately? It seems like posts are being held up for over an hour, as evidenced by the 9:17 and 9:20 posts just showing up for me at 10:30…

    1. It’s been really, REALLY slow lately. I have no idea why. Hopefully Kat and Elizabeth are okay?

  15. So I realize this may be a loaded question, and it’s quite personal of course…
    I don’t feel a strong urge to have children. My husband doesn’t want them, at best he’s cynical. They’re expensive and potentially make things like moving less flexible. I have sort of accepted this view for my future.
    My mom – who in my experience is always right, and who is generally quite respectful of me as an individual – says they’re such a joy, and urged me to reconsider as she thinks I’ll seriously regret it.
    I’m almost 39 so should really figure this out! Any advice? Thank you!

    1. Stop listening to your mom? You’re 39 years old and it sounds like you have already figured out where your heart is leading you. And your husband doesn’t want kids — are you really willing to divorce him over something you’re not sure you even want OR force him into a major major lifelong commitment HE doesn’t want?

      1. I don’t feel pressured, it’s just that my mom has sage advice. It’s more about speaking to DH again as he’s not totally closed to the idea, but doesn’t want them now (but there’s not exactly time). I wouldn’t force the issue, but you’re right, ultimately if he truly doesn’t want them then it’s a non issue (he’s wonderful).

        1. “It’s more about speaking to DH again as he’s not totally closed to the idea, but doesn’t want them now”
          Can I just say that I hate when men have this attitude? How convenient for him, he doesn’t want them *now*. Well biology says it’s either now or never if you want biological kids, dude.

          I’m really sorry OP, I think this is one of those issues you just have to go with your gut and realize that we’re never going to be able to know what we’ve missed out on in life, whichever path we take. Were you okay with this path before your mom said anything?

          1. Thank you! Honestly, some guys don’t always have to think about this stuff to the same extent…yes, I was good with it, but suspected I might feel down-the-line like I was missing out. Of course I’d be all about the child if I had one, but that’s a life altering decision. I don’t feel a strong need for one, but I do respect my mom’s opinion. It’s not pressure, she’s very respectful, and knows me better than anyone! So it carries some weight.

        2. “It’s more about speaking to DH again as he’s not totally closed to the idea, but doesn’t want them now (but there’s not exactly time).”

          I don’t even know you two and I want to knock your heads together. You’re almost 39. You’re either having kids – and your best bet is to start TTC literally today – or you’re not having kids. Indecision is its own decision, and you aren’t going to have them “someday.”

          (Spare me the talk about your friend’s cousin’s college roommate who had a baby at 43 without even trying; at age 40, you have a 5% chance of getting pregnant in any month, and your chances of genetic abnormalities and miscarriage are quite high. ART is also less effective the older you get, so you might be looking at many failed rounds of IVF followed by donor eggs and more IVF. I conceived quite easily at almost-40, and given the number of infertile friends I have, am quite aware that I am a statistical outlier. We also put ourselves on the express train from meeting to engagement to marriage in order to have that baby. You shouldn’t plan your life around being a statistical outlier.)

          1. As a pregnant 40 year old, I need to say that the “chances of genetic abnormalities and miscarriage” are not quite high – they are higher than in younger people, but still overall low. Advanced maternal age pregnancy is full of fear mongering and it sucks so much.

          2. I had a similar reaction to the post, Anon at 11:10. If the OP is 39 it is past time to make this decision and start trying and the fact that she and her spouse are still “on the fence” says everything there is to say about this.

            I am really puzzled over someone who is “meh” about having kids and hasn’t had them by age 39 wanting to TTC solely because her mom “has sage advice” and “is always right” about things. Especially when her husband is not into it. Like, do you want to be a parent? Because as a parent, let me tell you, it is not a minor lifestyle choice. I only have one kid and that one kid upended our lives totally for many years. I was all-in on having a kid and I am glad I was because no part of this has been easy. It has been incredibly rewarding but real talk, I can also see what our lives would have been without our kid and a part of me would have been okay with it. Also, OP, your mom is not going to be the one parenting your kid(s) 24/7/365. Parents are generally pro-grandkids because you get the fun of having kids around without the responsibility of raising another human being. What’s not to like about that? It doesn’t mean you should have kids because your mom thinks you should. My mom pressured us relentlessly about having kids and when we had our son, she was interested in him until he turned 11 and then has been mostly AWOL since. She also never provided any kind of substantive child care or backup relief for us, and in fact moved hundreds of miles away from us at a point where we really needed help with him. So if you think “having kids will be easier because my mom is really into it and she will help me,” think again. Many parents I know have stories like mine. I think you know the answer to your question. Don’t bring another human being into this world just because you think you might regret it later if you don’t.

          3. Agree with anon at 11:49 as far as the rate of chromosomal abnormalities not being as high as you would imagine based on media, but the bigger hurdle at age 40 is getting and staying pregnant. That 5% number gets thrown around a lot – although if you read Jean Twenge’s book on this there’s actually no documented source for it. The truth is you just don’t know what side of statistics you will land on until you start trying yourself.

          4. +1 to everything 11:56 said. Of course being a grandparent is fun! Despite how well your mom knows you, her opinion needs to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Disappointingly, we have received very little “help” from either set of grandparents. My parents live 50 minutes away, and my ILs live *5 minutes* away. They even moved here to be closer to us, supposedly. We didn’t go into parenthood expecting daily or even weekly assistance from the grandparents, but I have been quite surprised by how much both sets claim to be into their grandkids yet are afraid to interact with them when we’re not around. I never would’ve predicted that, given their enthusiasm. (In my parents’ case, our kids are 2 out of 10 grandkids total, so I realize they’re spread thin and want to be “fair,” but it really really sucks to not be able to rely on them as backup for anything.)

          5. I think a lot of people are putting their own experience with their mothers onto their perception of what happened with OP’s mom. It sounds like she wanted to make sure her daughter really knew her own mind about this before the window closes, and wanted to make sure OP wasn’t just going along with whatever her husband wanted. This sounds like an extremely normal and healthy conversation between two people who are close and love each other.

            The thing that really bugs me is that OP’s husband is not actually taking a position. “Maybe, but not right now,” is ridiculous when the person who has to carry the children is already 39.

            OP and her husband need to have a serious discussion and decide whether they fall in to the “yes and now” camp or the “no, never” camp. Because there are no other camps at this point.

          6. Hi Anonymous at 11:49 am. Per my post, I got pregnant with a healthy, wonderful baby close to age 40. You need to understand that not everything negative about older pregnancies is “fear mongering.” The chances of having a child with genetic abnormalities is about 1 in 60. That’s a “small” chance, but it’s a small chance of a really awful outcome. Chance of miscarriage is upwards of 40%, depending on how soon you know you’re pregnant. Chances of infertility are quite high. If you have IVF with your own eggs, your chances of it working are about 15%, compared to 50% of using donor eggs. Science isn’t fear mongering.

    2. I mean, are you willing to blow up your marriage in order to pursue having kids? It’s one thing to be on the fence, with a partner that’s equally indifferent, but you would have substantial challenges to pursuing children at this point in your life. While sometimes it doesn’t feel that way, a lack of action is a decision. You said No to kids by marrying this man, and No at 30 and 31 and 32 and 33 and 34 and 35… I would make peace with the fact that you’re already on the path you’re on, which has many beautiful and wonderful things to cherish and enjoy about your life. Was it Captain Awkward that had that lovely piece about “ghost ships” and accepting the different paths your life could have gone? Maybe someone here will remember that resource, I found it personally helpful in thinking through the tangles of “what could have been.”

        2. OP here, thank you! Some good stuff here – underscores that there’s currently no hard-and-fast right answer, “… there will likely be no clarity, at least at the outset; there will only be the choice you make and the sure knowledge that either one will contain some loss… Would the temporary loss of a considerable portion your personal freedom in middle age be significantly neutralized by the experience of loving someone more powerfully than you ever have?” Some tough questions!

    3. What’s to figure out? You don’t want kids. Your husband doesn’t want kids. Don’t have them. Your mom is right, kids are a joy, but there are lots of different joys you can have.

    4. DH and me are happily childfree and just shrug it off when we get pressured otherwise. If you don’t feel a strong urge, you shouldn’t do it. It’s literally the most permanent decision you can make. Blow off your mom’s opinion here– the decision is yours and partner’s only.

      1. Thanks, there’s some poignant insight here. I don’t think it’d blow up the marriage, though the dynamic with a kid would change! You may be right in that I don’t feel strongly and my actions evince that so why push it…

      2. Husband and I are also childfree. We’re mid-30s and on the same page. We both grew up in conservative religious households where you get married young, buy a house, get a dog, and have 2.5 children and that’s that. I was in high school when I first realized that actually, you can choose not to have children, and I was like, “Yep. That choice sounds good.” I said, “Maybe in 10 years” for literally a decade in response to social/family pressure, but now that I’m 35 and my response to having kids has only gotten stronger on the “nope” answer, people are finally starting to realize that we are not having kids. Will we miss out on the “joy” of having kids? Yes, 100%. (And I put joy in quotes because I know that my friends and family with kids absolutely think it’s a joy, but I don’t think that it would be a joy, so I don’t say it to be rude, I say it to reiterate the difference in mentality) Will we probably have some regrets about it when we’re 50 and our friends are celebrating their kids’ marriages? Maybe. (Again, I know people who are best friends with their parents and it’s great, and that seems really cool, but it’s such a crapshoot on whether you’ll get along with your adult children) But we love our life, we love our marriage, we have so many plans for the future that we can barely fit in as it is, how in the world would we add kids to the mix? We feel very strongly that if we were to have kids, we should raise them, very hands-on. And we don’t want to raise kids. No amount of suggestions from people who know us and think we’d be great parents changes the fact that neither of us want kids. Even my very religious give-me-all-the-grandchildren mother agrees if that if you don’t strongly want them, you shouldn’t have them because they require so much sacrifice.

    5. My husband and I are staunchly child free. We aren’t interested in the impact on our daily lives, relationship, finances, bodies, careers etc but primarily we think it’s selfish and unethical to reproduce on an over populated and dying planet. We have a lot of friends who also take this stance, it’s just not publicly talked about because it’s so taboo and most people are indoctrinated to have children. That said I’ve had a few of my parent friends confide in me their regrets in reproducing. It’s worse to have children you don’t want than to wonder about the ‘maybe’.

      1. It’s not “selfish and unethical to reproduce,” so please don’t make that statement about people who have children. It’s fine that you have made the choice not to have them. It’s not fine to criticize those who have chosen differently.

        1. Right. If this poster is so happy to be child-free (which I whole heartedly agree is the best choice for many) I wonder why she seems so angry about it.

          1. You can disagree with the poster without assuming her emotional state and censoring her based on that.

        2. It IS selfish to reproduce–see e.g. https://medium.com/@krisgage/every-reason-to-have-children-is-selfish-fc6d9ccdb865. That doesn’t make a choice to have kids wrong in my mind, but it cannot be logically debated that it is an inherently selfish act in and of itself. The ethics are debatable, but it is a valid viewpoint for some to look at overpopulation and pollution and decide that it’s not for them, accordingly.

          And as far as criticisms go, those without children face far more criticism and judgment on a day-to-day basis than those who follow the social prescribed choice of having kids, even on this website.

          1. I read the piece you attached, which wasn’t reasoned so much as asserted (bullet points and snark aren’t a great form of persuasion). I was struck by the fact that the author ended by noting that every reason not to have kids was ALSO selfish, to say nothing of reasons to be in human relationships in general. End result: I’m not sure the selfish line of argument really illuminates OP’s dilemma here.

    6. It sounds like you already figured it out – if you haven’t wanted them by now and still aren’t sure the decision is kind of made.

    7. On the flip side, what if you take her advice and regret that decision? That one’s a lot harder to live with IMO. What if the child has severe health problems or special needs? You’re probably not prepared to take that on if you’re lukewarm about the idea of having them in the first place.

      1. OP here…totally. I could see it blowing up, and there’s no way of changing course at that point. Quite the commitment!

        1. OP – I waited until I really strongly wanted a child (I was 34 when I warmed to the idea and 37 when I started fertility treatment). I had a baby at 38. I had all the genetic tests because I did not think I would be a capable parent to a special needs child. I have a child with significant autism and it has changed every aspect of my life and will continue to do so until the day that I die. I love my son and his happiness and welfare impact every decision I make. That ghost ships article speaks the truth so unless you are fully prepared to embrace and every unknown and bid farewell to the life that you have (and it does not seem like you want to), do not have a child. Even if your mom gives good advice.

    8. This isn’t an easy decision and there’s no ‘right’ answer. I have three but I would have also been happy with one and I don’t think my life would be ‘incomplete’ without kids. Think about what you want your life to be like in 5, 10, 15 years – is it just you and DH or do you imagine kids?

      Kids are expensive – but you have a lot of control over what that looks like. Are you okay with picking up a stroller at a second hand shop or do you feel the need for a $1000 stroller? DH and I still eat out but we tend to do it at lunch when it’s less expensive and no sitter required.

      Kids make moving less flexible – best analogy is marriage, once you got married you also had to work your DH into any career plans that involve moving. Kids are another factor you have to consider. But the reality is, you and your DH make the decisions.

      Travel – DH and I continue to travel childfree (usually skiing), and we also love traveling with our kids. It’s a lot of work but we enjoyed travel before and want to share that with them. We travel internationally with them every year but I also drive a seven year old minivan (you have to be comfortable with your own priorities). But honestly, travel with kids is a great way to meet local people. It’s amazing how kids can play together even when they don’t speak each other’s language.

      I have three kids (1 kid then surprise twins) who I love dearly but it does change your life and you have to work hard to remember to live the kind of life you want. Parenting has been both much harder and much more rewarding than I could have ever imagined. There’s just something about a 5 year old telling you that he doesn’t think you should dye your grey hair and that you are ‘the best mom ever’ and how come mom cuddles are so good. Being able to kiss an ‘owie’ and make it better is one of the myriad of small joys that have been a worthwhile tradeoff for the inherent loss of independence but those joys don’t make my life ‘better’ than someone without kids -it’s just a different journey and way of experiencing life.

      1. OP here – thank you. What a refreshing perspective from a parent, about not being better or more rewarding, just different. Yeah, we’d be all in, buying what we thought would be best for the kid, though I suspect some of those views would change (I for instance went to private school, husband did not, I could see where having kids would open your eyes, challenge previously held ideals and require compromise…nothing being better or worse, just different values to weigh…even more hard choices with a kid! ;)…yes, we’d hopefully instill a love of travel in the child, I appreciate your point about working hard to remember to live the kind of life you want. Thank you for your perspective!

    9. Don’t listen to your mom. You don’t want kids and your husband doesn’t want kids. End of story. I’m 43, child free by choice and don’t regret it one bit. Do not have kids because someone else wants you to.

    10. Moving companies offer storage, especially the larger companies. I don’t have NYC experience with that, but I know it exists. Search and call. Keep in mind that the longer you store your stuff the more expensive that part of the equation will get. You could also look into getting a mini-storage place near your parents, and have the movers move you stuff there. Then you are done with the first set of movers, and can hire new ones when you are moving to your new place, vs. having the ongoing storage relationship with the first moving company. Mini storage also might be cheaper and more flexible about the duration of your storage lease.

    11. I think kids are probably a joy if you want them. If you don’t want them or are ambivalent, I suspect they’re not so great. DH and I are child free, and nothing I have seen in 20+ years of observing friends / family / co-workers lives with their children has made me feel I made the wrong choice.

    12. Agree with all of the comments. NO ONE should impact your reproductive decisions except you and your partner. Your mother should have absolutely no bearing on your decision to procreate whatsoever. Her having grandchildren isn’t her choice.

      1. Some of us love our families and consider them in making life decisions. (Note: I didn’t write that we obey them, or do what they say, I said consider them.)

        1. Different anon here — I understand taking your family into consideration when, for example, deciding whether to take a job on a different continent when your mom has terminal cancer. But being pressured into producing grandchildren feels different to me and somehow less worthy of being influenced by outside opinions.

    13. I know several couples in their 40s without children (by choice) and at least one person from each of these couples have expressed their regret about it to either me or my husband. Part of it is that they also thought being childless would allow them to move and travel. Yet they like where they live so don’t want to leave their community, all their friends have kids, and traveling is not really on the table now. One friend mentioned that they also have aging parents and are starting to think about being alone once their parents are gone. I don’t know anyone who regretted having kids but obviously that’s not something people admit usually. I was also not really into having kids (was an only child, didn’t like babies). More ambivalent than totally against it. I now have 2 since my husband wanted kids and we had pressure from our parents too (husband is only child too). And I agree with your mom. As much as I hated the newborn stage, they’re delightful and a joy after about 6 month. My youngest is 6 weeks so I’m in the stage I hate most but already not ruling out a third. However the first year can be so hard depending on the baby so I wouldn’t do it unless both partners are on board. It can break a marriage.

      1. “I don’t know anyone who regretted having kids but obviously that’s not something people admit usually.”

        A few weeks ago, someone made the very insightful point that people do regret having kids and do not express it directly but still express it . There’s a lot of “how hard” motherhood is, you can’t understand unless you’re a mother, blah blah blah. Decoding it, it starts to sound a lot like a socially-acceptable way to express regret.

        To be clear, this isn’t people who say that parenthood is hard and rewarding in unique ways, just the people who say it’s (whiny voice) so hard and (snotty voice) you can’t understand unless you’re a mother.

    14. I have kids, they are a joy FOR US. A large part of that is that DH and I very much wanted kids. It sounds like you don’t want kids and your husband definitely doesn’t want kids. Don’t have kids just because your mom thinks they are a joy – they are but not necessarily for everyone and there are many other sources of joy in life! It’s not frequently discussed but I suspect there are plenty of parents who seriously regret their decision to have children, particularly those who didn’t really want them in the first place. As you noted, kids are expensive, time consuming, limit your ability to travel, choose where to live and a whole host of other things (and that’s assuming you’re lucky enough to have healthy neuro-normal kids, if that’s not the case there’s a whole other set of restrictions and limits). They can also be total a*sholes. It can be difficult to get through the tough parenting moments even when you really wanted kids, I can’t imagine how those parenting low days would feel if I hadn’t really wanted them in the first place. I love my kids and they are an immense source of joy but people are different and there are plenty of things that give other people joy that don’t sound appealing to me. It’s your life, you and your DH seem perfectly happy with your decision to not have kids and you know yourselves better than your mom.

      1. OP here – this may be my favorite response – “They can also be total a*sholes.“ Love the differing experiences and perspectives from this group! I too am an only child, am clearly ambivalent (though yes, perhaps indecision is a decision), have friends who regret it but also those who love it and those who are childfree and love it. Obviously no right answer but perhaps I’ll broach this one last time with DH, but yeah given all the uncertainty (jobs, moving, pandemic, etc…)…but I guess there’s never “a good time” to make these decisions, if you’re ever going to make them! I think it’s safe to say we’re doing pretty well in life in terms of health and happiness so far, just don’t wanna regret it down-the-line. Thanks everyone :)

        1. Just want to chime in that you are absolutely right that there is “no right answer” to this question, as a general concept. However, there IS a right answer for you and your husband, and you are both the only ones who can determine that answer together. Wishing you luck with your decision.

    15. I’m not sure if I regret my kids, but the experience is very different than what I thought it would be, partly because one is disabled and may never be fully independent. There is a lot of joy. There is a lot of exhaustion. I miss my 20s when my friends and I hung out all the time. But those friends all have kids and are busy with their own lives. My 40s being my 20s was never on the table. I know I would have always wondered what kids would be like and felt like I was missing out; I don’t wonder now.

      1. I’m sorry to hear this in that having a child with a disability must be exhausting, as you say. No doubt a lot of joy as well. Someone else commented similarly and it must be a very intense, life-changing experience.

    16. You have gotten so much good advice and it’s great to hear from people being happy in all kinds of ways. There is no one-size-fits-all answer.
      I only have one (so far!) who is still a toddler, who was very much wanted. My perspective is that he makes our lives messier and more complicated, but also so much richer. I have heard that the first few years of parenthood have “less happiness, but more joy” than pre-parenthood. It’s very much a decision to base on your individual life goals, and what kind of future you envision for yourself.

    17. My husband and I are childfree by choice, but live in an area where it is very much the norm for people to get married and have babies starting relatively young. Honestly, the worst part about not having kids, for me, is just not having parenthood in common with practically every single one of my friends – as pretty much all of my friends have kids now. But that isn’t enough to make me want to raise a kid.

      To be honest, I always find the conversation around having kids or not to be so crazy – it’s like the complete opposite of the way we think about all other things in life. It’s treated that having kids is the default and even if you don’t actively *want* to have kids you should have them, unless you actively *don’t want* them. We don’t treat other decisions like this, and I think it’s really weird that we even consider doing something so big that we don’t actually, enthusiastically want to do. (Can you imagine being like, oh yea, going to go skydiving. I don’t want to go, but I don’t *not want* to go, so I guess I’m going. Maybe that’s a bad example, but I’m sure you get my drift.)

      1. OP again – thank you all! What a varied set of responses and experiences. Definitely not one size fits all! It’s nice to see the richness in life through such a diverse set of experiences.
        And yes, I’m biased but my mom is amazing – she’s never pressured me to do anything, this is the only thing she’s ever really urged me to reconsider. I’m quite fortunate in that respect and have a lot of respect for her opinion, especially since she knows me so well. Nothing more or less other than being open to a different but valued point of view, since I’m clearly not dying to have kids. All the points about my husband being on board were salient ones – it’s a nonstarter if he’s not behind it. Thank you so much, everyone!

      2. I could have written this post Carmen Sandiego. It’s just nuts to default to such a huge life change and responsibility. I never wanted kids. Simply never felt the desire and my parents never ever pressured me. (Thinking back, it’s so awesome that the only response I got from my parents to my numerous and early proclamations that I’d never reproduce was “that’s fine honey, you can shape your life however you want and don’t need to have kids, and you can totally be president, too.”) It wasn’t that I kind of wanted kids, but weighed the pros and cons and decided not to do it. My approach has aways been that unless I truly, actively want to have kids and strongly feel the desire to — not simply reason with myself that it’s a “good idea” or protection from regret–I shouldn’t do it. I figure it’s better to regret not having them than to regret having them.

    18. I’d recommend reading “The Baby Decision” by Merle Bombadieri and doing all the exercises. My SO and I are doing it since he changed his mind about kids.

      You can easily find ways to experience the joys of kids without having your own.

      1. Thank you – I’ll check that out! I’m definitely not the only one out there unsure or weighing any sort of permanent decision. Thanks again.

    19. Based on your other responses, I wonder if your mom was trying to encourage you to not necessarily “change your mind and decide to have kids” but more to do the kind of reflection you’ve been doing in this discussion to make a more deliberate choice and know why you arrived at that decision.

      1. OP here – that’s a really interesting point. I’m not sure about her motive or reasoning in encouraging me (I think mostly that she loved having me so much and knows me so well), but you’re right about my laissez-faire attitude in not doing a ton of self-reflecting and deliberation. I’ve not pushed it with my husband since I’ve respected his sentiment, and we’re happy now without (and who’s to say there’s even a chance)…it would be a scary decision to have such a great responsibility! But you’re right in that I should possibly look inward and think hard and this group and helped with that by providing a number of robust opinions and experiences. Some wonderful insight and views which I’m grateful for.

  16. Are socially distanced work coffee chats a thing? My city is definitely going down in the number of places, outdoor restaurants open, people actually following the rules. I’m planning to meet someone for like a networking coffee, should I try and meet him in the park (college campus grounds) with face masks and social distancing, kind of like what you would do normally, or just do a video call?

    2. Video. Having a meeting with a mask on is not nearly as good of a connection as a meeting over video. (I am NOT knocking masks, and don’t think you should do this meeting without one. I’m just making a more practical argument because it’s an easier one to assess than “is it safe?”)

      1. True, I’d rather be able to see their face and expressions when it’s a new person

  17. My boobs are so sore. It’s hormonal, during my cycle there’s a point where they get dense, heavy, and sore. This week and last week they’ve been extra sore; I sleep on my side and doing so is kind of painful.

    Any tips for dealing with this tenderness?

    1. Cutting back on caffeine particulary during the second half of my cycle and taking daily evening primrose oil and magnesium supplements seems to help me.

    2. I wear a soft, non-underwire bra to bed (a simple low impact sports bra will do) when my bre@sts get this way. The slight compression helps and makes sleeping more comfortable.
      I’ve found that the less caffeine I ingest during the month the better off I’ll be at that point in the cycle. Alcohol is a similar story but not as big an impact as cutting out caffeine (or..maybe I’m biased, caffiene is easier to give up for me).
      Stay hydrated with water, flush your system. Drinking lemon water regularly may help alleviate some of the symptoms when they hit again next time. Try to find ways to alleviate stress during this time. The symptoms you describe are always worse for me when I have a lot of stress in my life.

    3. I suffered for a lot of years with cyclical breast pain. I went for a mammogram and told the radiologist at the breast care center about the pain and he told me to try wire-free bras – that in his experience most women who went wire-free stopped having breast pain, cyclical or otherwise. I ditched the underwires and presto, no more problems. There are cute, supportive wirefree bras out there all over the place now.

      1. Hmm, this is helpful to hear. I’ve also been dealing with breast pain, though in my case it’s not cyclical and only on one side and seems to also involve a lot of chest muscle tenderness (I also have major neck pain, so muscle pain isn’t new for me). My doctor couldn’t feel anything and I didn’t have any of the cancer warning signs so I’m waiting on an appointment for a regular mammogram, but I’ve been in a fair amount of pain for months now (appointments with new doctors take a very long time where I live- hooray US healthcare system!). My previous attempts at finding wire free bras hadn’t been all that successful (I’m quite large chested), but maybe I need to try again and see if that helps. If anyone has other suggestions for non-cyclic/hormonal breast pain, I’d love to hear those too!

        1. For me, pain similar to what you describe turned out to be costochondritis, or inflammation of the cartilage connecting the ribs to the sternum. Supportive bras, which for me equals underwire even at a small size, are an important part of managing this type of pain.

          1. Costochondritis should hurt closer to the center of your chest, though, shouldn’t it? Mine hurts more by my armpit and all along my side, generally in the arc of my underwire, plus my chest muscles sort of above my armpit. I would generally say my bras fit well and are comfortable, but I’ve started sleeping in them to reduce the pain. The sore side is the side I normally sleep on and the underwire has started to bother me more then.

      2. I’m late to this post, but WFH has taught me this lesson! Since I haven’t been wearing a bra (at all), I noticed I no longer have the soreness I used to get regularly. I always blamed it on hormones, and it never occurred to me it was from my bra. Not sure what I’ll do when it’s time to go back to the office, but based on this, I never want to put on a bra again!

    4. When I was early 40s my breasts really started hurting more than they historically had. My OB told me it was likely part of perimenopause. She said my body might start behaving like I was a teenager again and told me not to be surprised by any of it.

      I’m on the other side of it now (menopause) and my breasts have stopped being sore. BUT I also now know I was wearing the wrong bra size, and that can’t have helped. To the other response about wires, yeah, wires are going to make you sore if they’re sitting on breast tissue! A properly fitting bra will not do that. AND just because you’ve been to Nordstrom and have been fitted there doesn’t mean you’re wearing the right size either. I wasn’t.

      I really think you should go down the abrathatfits rabbit hole on red dit and do their five measurement test. Wearing the right size has really changed my life. You know how when you’ve been wearing a bra all day you can’t wait to take it off? I was even taking mine off in the car on my drive home from the train station! But I never feel that way anymore, and sometimes I forget I’m wearing one. I know I’m being a bravangelist right now but it really does make a difference.

      I’m a former 40D/40DD with a perpetual rash between my b00bs because they were squeezed together all the time. Im now a happy 38G (UK) and what do you know, the rash is gone.

  18. If you’re applying for a job now but won’t be available to start for a few months, when would you mention it? On one hand job searches and interviews can take 2-3 months in my field anyways, but on the other hand I imagine companies may want people to start fairly soon. Cover letter? First interview?

    3. I did this. When I started looking for a job, I was about six months out from a trial that I was tangentially involved in. By the time I had an offer, I was six weeks out from the trial and was second chairing it. I did not think I could in good conscience leave before the trial date. New firm totally understood and respected my decision. They also respected me a lot more for sticking with the old firm for the trial because they valued loyalty, etc. and did not want to burn bridges with my old firm. Just bring it up if/when you get an offer.

      1. Okay good to know. I’m in a very similar position. My “deadline” is somewhat public though and people in my field would know when it was, but I won’t bring it up proactively anyways.

    4. Not until you get close to an offer, and then broach the topic by asking “when are you looking to have someone start in this position?”

    5. Don’t mention it until the offer stage. (Or maybe earlier if they indicate a pressing need and ask when you’d be available.) But don’t proactively mention it in the application stage.

    6. I wouldn’t mention your timeline to start. I would lead it with a question during the interview. “When is the expected start date for this position should I be hired?” and then expand from there if you need that to be a compromise.

  19. Yesterday’s thread on implants referenced replacement and I was surprised that so many people haven’t replaced theirs. I remember watching Botched and Dr. Dubrow said that 83% of implants have ruptured or leaked after 13 years so regular replacement is important. It turned me off having them done if they have to be replaced on the regular but it seems like people are getting different advice from their surgeons. Having to replace them is one of the things that’s held me back from getting implants so I was surprised to see so many people say they haven’t replaced theirs. Is it the FDA or manufacturer who recommends when to replace?

    1. So I’m a BC survivor with implants. It’s a manufacturer recommendation. Like so many things, it doesn’t mean they won’t last longer – my PS tells me he has people who have had them for 15+ years – but it’s smart to start considering breakdown after 10-ish years. Honestly, I just hope to live another 10 years for this to be a consideration in my world.

      1. Also a BC survivor with implants. I had mine (silicone) replaced about 3 years ago (they were just under 10 years old). One of them showed up as ruptured on an MRI. The second turned out to be ruptured as well. I didn’t consider not replacing them but now I’m curious. I’m only 38 so I’ll be doing this a few more times (45, 55, 65, wheee, so fun) if I replace them every time they rupture. And, yes, I was 24 when I had breast cancer.

        1. I understand that’s an issue with the silicone implants – it’s not always obvious that they’ve ruptured. One of my friends had her reconstruction done when we were still in the silicone is bad phase, and opted for saline implants. When one of hers ruptured it was a completely obvious b00b/no b00b situation. That said, she had them replaced with silicone after the rupture.

      2. I’ve had mine for almost 15 years and haven’t had any problems or needed to replace them. Back when I got them, my surgeon said they only needed to be replaced if they tore or leaked.

  20. Any thoughts on ways to find new virtual communities during this pandemic? In the before times? I went to so many cultural events, speakers, literary events, concerts… I loved my city life and really tried to live it up. And I enjoyed seeing some familiar faces at those events and the opportunities to connect before and after the event. Most of those connections didn’t turn into lifelong friendships or anything, but they were still valuable for what they were. Now I feel like it’s either NOTHING (long solo days of work) or intense reconnecting with old friends over Zoom (which is also really nice! not a complaint. I just miss the in-between nature of socializing out and about with like-minded people).

    Obviously those kinds of events aren’t coming back anytime soon. But surely there must be virtual opportunities… I just don’t know what they are. Has anyone been to any good virtual talks, concerts, Meetups, or anything else that included good opportunities to connect with fellow attendees?

    1. I know in my city, several museums are inviting speakers to move their discussions online. You usually have to register first. I’ve done one at the museum where I volunteer and it was pretty interesting, but not a ton of that informal interaction you mention (just a little bit in the chat). I found it by following them on Facebook.

  21. I work at a small Plaintiff’s firm (15 attorneys) and our practice was primarily class action cases, some anti trust and ATA cases. Things have slowed down significantly because cases have settled and we are trying to develop new cases/ land new clients. I am a 4th year associate and I want to contribute but I have no idea where to start. Any advice or recommendations are appreciated. I also don’t have strong ties to the city as I only moved here a year before starting this job so if anyone has advice on how to network I am all ears.

  22. I put on a pair of Harry potter leggings after court since no one cares if I wear suit pants since we are a zoom/WebEx using firm.

    Just occurred to me that Harry Potter might be canceled. Is everyone still wearing HP stuff or is this all stuff I should donate?

    1. Respectfully, why do you care what we think? This really depends on your personal comfort level.

    2. Canceling someone is a cruel and quasi-Puritanical way to deal with opinions with which you disagree. Even if I did agree with that action, which I clearly don’t, I would never cancel JK Rowling or Harry Potter. I respect her opinions and reason for having them. Most people I know who actually read her essay (and not just the hot take hit pieces) seem to as well.

    3. I cannot say that seeing a person wearing HP stuff would ever make me think they were secretly signaling some sort of anti-trans sympathy movement… just that they too enjoy the HP universe. (I may or may not have uttered “eat slugs Malfoy” when battling a real-garden infestation last week…)

      1. LOL, the hubris of thinking one of the world’s most beloved and successful authors is “canceled” because some random keyboard warriors say so. Plus, if you REALLY cared about signaling your ally status, you’d throw your entire HP collection in the garbage. Why not commit fully?

        1. You have no idea what you are talking about.

          I’m saying that so-called social justice warrior do look askance at supporting JK, and there is social pushback against supporting her. But HP leggings do not currently convey support for JK. The HP fandom has been iffy on JKR for many years now, and the HP fandom is wildly active; derived and inspired works easily eclipse the originals. It a phenomenon unto itself.

          I don’t personally like or care about HP or JKR, but these aren’t opinions; they’re observations.

          1. I think it’s possible that you are the one who does not know what she is talking about. I do not agree that a few SJWs with big platforms who have denounced JK Rowling get the final say in whether she is “canceled” or whether buying leggings can be construed as “supporting the art, not the artist.” That’s trying to have it both ways, is it not? In any case, they are vastly outnumbered by the millions of people who will continue to support her and her books. I, for one, am glad to support authors with their own opinions and critical thinking skills. Her essay was sad, disturbing for the violence she has experienced, and empathetic to all.

          2. Okay. It’s clear that you agree with and support Rowling, but I understood the OP to be asking about the perspective of people who do not. Obviously someone who agrees with her views and sides with her is okay with the leggings!

    6. I think Harry Potter is at a point where it lives beyond it’s creator, and getting rid of your HP stuff is overkill. I truly am a fan of Harry Potter and what it brought to my childhood/beyond, but have always been, at best, neutral re: Rowling. I feel it’s kind of like Disney as this point – the companies has a lot of skeletons in it’s closet, especially from it’s earlier days, but we haven’t boycotted Snow White. We intentionally avoid properties like Song of the South for very good reasons, but I don’t feel like HP and its characters are like that at all.
      It also helps that the HP books themselves are generally seen as non-problematic. The author is arguably a different story. But, of course, you should do what you feel most comfortable with, especially in a professional setting.

        1. Is it? Disney is an enormous corporation. JK Rowling is a single author who has proven to be wildly successful. She owns her work and is responsible for it in a way that Walt Disney is/was not.

          1. That’s very true, and I agree that it’s not a perfect analogy. However, like anonshmanon said, it’s become a separate culture/art/fandom that lives beyond the author. Some may disagree with me (which is understandable!) but I think this is one of those times where I can separate the art from the artist (and disagree with some of their views) and feel totally OK with that.

      2. That’s a useful comparison for me. HP is a great example for art released into the world that get adopted and incorporated into a fandom and develops a spirit on its own.

      1. Nope, it exists for someone to refer to it in a week as “the liberals are out of control. Remember when someone on here legit asked anonymous commenters if HP was cancelled???”

    8. I’m sorry, this stuff is so dumb. Remember when all the conservatives were mad at Nike (and is as soon dumb I can’t even remember why) and they were posting videos of them burning their Nike stuff, even stuff they went out and bought specifically to burn? Do you think that hurt Nike? I think they saw a spike in sales, actually.

      Cancel culture is ridiculous. Wear the leggings if you like them. You already paid money for them. The .0000000001 cents that your leggings generated for J.K. Rowling is already in her bank account.

    9. Appreciate the comments, basically just threw the first pair of leggings I could find in my purse for post court because it’s summer and no one can see my bottom anyway. I do feel weird about wearing them for a few reasons.

      I’ll probably throw them in a donation bin with the rest of my brand print stuff for someone else to enjoy.

      Thanks all.

  23. I have found the ultimate stay at home bra – b. tempt’d by Wacoal Future Foundation Racerback Bralette. I wear their tank tops to bed and I recently discovered this bra. I’m a 34DD and I can’t stand bras. I’ve barely worn one all through the pandemic, but I do feel more put together with one on. I’ve tried wire free and still rip them off. But not this one! It feels absolutely weightless. Here’s a link, and there are more colors at Nordstrom, other stores, and the brand’s website.

    https://www.nordstrom.com/s/b-temptd-by-wacoal-future-foundation-racerback-bralette/5429458?origin=category-personalizedsort&breadcrumb=Home%2FBrands%2Fb.tempt%27d%20by%20Wacoal&color=rose%20smoke

  24. Does anyone here have a 2020 Outback? Do you love it? How about that giant touchscreen?

    I’ve never had a Subaru, but after my not-quite-a-lemon 2017 Toyota Highlander left me stranded on the side of the road this weekend for “sorry, we weren’t able to replicate it” problems (AGH, that is seriously the most frustrating thing), I’m considering Subaru. I know people LOVE them and the test drive I took was nice, but I’m worried about the touchscreen’s poor reviews in the major car reviews (Car & Driver, Motortrend, etc). I’m thinking of going back for a second test drive, but I’d like to hear from real people if possible.

    1. I can’t comment on the Subaru specifically (although I own an older Outback that I like), but when I drove a different rental car with a large touchscreen, I found it distracting. Anything that distracts me while driving gives me significant pause and I would really make sure you pay attention to that during a second test drive.

    2. If you want to avoid lemons, don’t buy a new Subaru. According to my Subaru mechanic, the quality dropped in a big way around a decade ago. My 2012 Subaru had issues with excess oil consumption and the transmission, both of which were the subject of “warranty extensions.” Subaru refused to address the oil consumption because apparently consuming 2 quarts of oil between recommended oil changes was not a significant enough issue, and applied a short-term band-aid fix to the transmission. I wanted so badly to become a Subaru person, but it just wasn’t meant to be. We are back to buying Toyotas.

      1. +1 with an oil burning 2011. I would never buy another vehicle from them. Ever. Subaru does not stand by their products. Lots of “may” items in their warranty documents. It takes a class action lawsuit to move them to take even the smallest action to assist. Look it up.

      2. My 2011 Forester 5 speed had the clutch “explode” 600 km from home, days after the Subaru dealership had serviced it and said the clutch was in good mechanical shape. It took a month and three damaged parts to get it fixed, and the oil consumption has gone way, way up. I love it, but we’re looking at a Highlander or Honda Pilot when it finally dies.

    3. I don’t have an Outback but I have a 2019 Forester and I love it. Rides really smoothly. My sister prefers it to her older Outback.

    4. We don’t have this outback, but we have a 2010 that is in great shape for a 10 year old car. Not sure on the point about post-2011’s being different, but the 2020 outback (now with a third row seat!) will be on our short list if we ever emerge from work/school/everything from home so that we need a newer second car (and at this point “need” is only because we can’t trust that it’s always going to run as well).

  25. Is this worth a consult w an employment lawyer? I‘m the first person in my family to go to college and have a professional job so I don’t really have a strong trusted network of people where I can get a gut check on this type of thing.

    I’m in a sales role at a company and our commission schedule has been the same for the past two years that I’ve been w the company. I’m (hopefully) about to close our biggest deal ever. It’s been a long process – over a year of relationship building and work and we are finally at the finish line.

    Now, our commission schedule is changing effective immediately for all deals closed going forward. The new plan reduces my expected payout on this one deal by at least $100k (a massive amount of money to me and significant portion of my overall compensation).

    I have friends who have had commission plans get updated over the course of their jobs at other companies, but it’s always been systematic, like you sign the year’s commission plan in January. This feels so targeted, like they’ve gotten me to do all this work under the old plan but now don’t want to write such a big check and are changing the rules when I’m 95% of the way there.

    I’m scared to make a fuss and lose my job in the middle of a pandemic with such high unemployment (I help support my parents and really need an income) but this just feels so unfair. Is there anything that I can do about this?

    2. No advice, but I encourage you to repost this tomorrow morning so you can get more responses. There are probably others who are more knowledgeable. That sounds so shitty.

    3. I would definitely consult an employment lawyer. Depending on your compensation structure, it may be constructive dismissal. And start looking for a new job. It does sound targeted. An employment lawyer can help you negotiate a neutral letter of reference.

    4. In sales for a long time – your employer likely has the right to change the commission plan at any time and this is stated in the compensation plan. Timing of deal closure is absolutely key. I have heard this sad story many times and your $100K is actually lower than the stories I have heard….and yes everyone that feels it is unfair can describe all the hard work they have been doing for the deal. Companies review their comp plan every year and where they made big payouts last year and make changes accordingly to keep the rewards aligned with business objectives. You can get an employment lawyer, but if your deal isn’t closed yet, you don’t have any claim to the commission. If your deal closes before the commission plan changes and employer tries to withhold payment, that is a very different story.

      1. That’s partly why the timing feels so suspect to me. If the plan changed in January as a part of a larger annual review or something like that, it would be one thing. But to change it days before the deal is set to close, in July (which has nothing to do with fiscal year or any other legitimate milestone), where the impact is so clearly targeted at this one deal seems so unfair and like they got me to do the work by promising something and are now going back on it.

        1. Are they changing the comp plan only for you? or is it company wide and coincidentally, you are in the last stages of closing a large deal? If it only applies to you that is suspect but if it is universal, then they have every right to change their plan when they want to.

    5. You’d think they would think twice about pulling the rug out from under you now, when you could literally kill the deal in the home stretch. And I’m only halfway joking when I suggest that.

      Get an attorney ASAP.

  26. Everyone, please go listen to This Week in Virology episode 640 with Michael Mina. This really could be the answer to returning to work and school safely. The gist of it is that instead of working on producing these super sensitive tests that detect even a minuscule amount of virus, let’s produce extremely cheap tests that aren’t so sensitive and that can react to saliva. They would be cheap and abundant enough for every person to take one every morning before heading to work/school. If it’s positive, you stay home even if you feel well, greatly cutting down on asymptomatic transmission. This technology exists now and is easy to produce. Please listen and write to your representatives.

    2. I love this podcast. Everyone should listen to it as it comes out each week, but this episode is especially good.

      Signed,
      Lawyer who secretly wishes she a virologist but who would have definitely failed organic chemistry

    3. If they’re not that sensitive, how is that going to really help control the pandemic? It does sound promising, but I think we’d need more information to know if it could effectively replace lab testing.

      1. Also, I don’t know that I trust my coworkers to take their tests every morning (or people on public transit). My employer can require it, but there are SO many people on the subway who either will not or cannot do this themselves.

      2. I think the idea is that people who don’t have a ton of viral load aren’t going to spread as much, so being able to pick up a small amount of virus present is less important than quickly identifying and quarantining people who have sufficient viral load to trigger a less-sensitive test – especially when someone is asymptomatic. It obviously won’t be 100% at catching everyone who is infected, but it would be vastly improved over the current situation and could be used in conjunction with lab testing. Not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. (In in my major metropolitan city, I can’t get tested without symptoms or known exposure, and even those who can get tested are seeing a long turnaround time for the results.)

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