ByElizabeth Hours Updated
Comments 372 Comments

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Isabelle Jacket

A woman wearing a white inner blouse with cream tweed blazer top and denim pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This tweedy lady jacket is a J.Crew bestseller for a reason. It looks polished, but not too stuffy, and the slightly cropped fit works beautifully with dresses, skirts, or pants.

This ivory color is perfect for winter. Wear it with a black sheath for a classic, business formal look, or pair it with denim for a “cool boss in a creative office” look. 

The blazer is $248 at J.Crew and comes in sizes 000-24. It also comes in “radiant ruby” and black. 

Some of our latest favorite Chanel-style jackets for work in 2024 include these, but in general check more jacket-y options like Chanel, IRO, L'Agence, and Veronica Beard, as well as more sweater-y options like St. John, ba&sh, and J.Crew. On the budget side of things, check out CeCe, Tuckernuck (XXS-XXL), J.Crew Factory, and Mango. (Also check out our roundup of the best lady jackets for work!) Nordstrom has a bunch in all price points!

Chanel-style jacket in dark burgundy
IRO
green plaid tweed Chanel-like jacket with fringe
L'Agence
seated woman wears beige lady jacket with patch pockets, buttoned to her neck; she is sitting criss-cross applesauce and wearing jeans and sunglasses.
J.Crew (exact)
woman wears multicolored teal lady jacket with gold buttons
J.Crew Factory

Sales of note for 12.5

372 Comments

  1. Is it just me or has linkedin become the new facebook? I swear every time I go on there I see the most undeserving/ unserious joe smo’s making their life and work sound like THE BIGGEST THING, whereas people I actually respect and know are doing good/hard work are quieter, less visible, have less likes etc. I am trying so hard to not let it affect me but I am in a field where it is important and required for me to participate and it is really making me feel jaded and disillusioned with it all. Any tips/ wise words appreciated!

    1. Oof – as someone who *just* posted something I was really proud of on linkedin this hits hard

        1. Giggling because five minutes ago, I just read through three posts from current and former colleagues telling everyone how “humbled” they are by a promotion, new role, whatever. Please. These are some of the least humble people I have ever met in my life.

      2. It depends how you write it. Posting about a professional accomplishment is normal and good. It’s just that some people write in this ridiculous influencer style that is getting on peoples nerves.

        1. Agreed. My pet peeve is the leaving-my-job announcements that end with “stay tuned for what’s to come.” Just tell us where you’re going. You have my attention now. Maybe I’d be interested in your next venture and want to engage about it in some way. I’m not going to “tune in later.”

          2. Yes it’s so annoying. I like seeing peoples’ updates, but you are not a career influencer or a network TV episode, no need for a cliffhanger. Just announce your new job and I will happily say congratulations.

          4. Omg I hate those so much. As if they are celebrities announcing their next movie or something.

          6. I always took it as someone who doesn’t have anything lined up so it’s a way to notify your network in case anything might be a good fit.

            Nothing movie star about it. More like waving a flag that you might need some help.

    2. In my industry, all those people who are quietly working hard are doing their things IRL, not on LinkedIn. And the people they need to impress don’t care about the online antics.

    4. It’s so much like FB, in fact, that the only good things it has going for it these days are the games.

        1. Yep! Very Serious Business Place has games now. Anything to drive user engagement!

    5. I’m rather weirded out by a lot of LinkedIn these days. It seems sort of like Ask A Manager meets an elementary school talent show.

    6. I hate how some companies are making Linked In participation required, or are trying to make it required anyway. A partner I work with really tries to push it, sending monthly requests to post or share or whatever. I want less social media in my life, not more or a dumb business one.

      Totally agree that the real MVPs are not messing around with anything on LinkedIn In.

      1. Oh yeah, I save my super embarrassment for people I know who share extremely personal stories on LinkedIn, all with the happy ending that they know everything now, but I just feel bad for friends who have to repost some shit their company put out and be all rah rah about how inspired they are by it.

      2. I totally agree with this last sentence. All of the superstars I know either don’t post at all or minimally engage.

    7. I like it. But I also do things like mute the people doing garbage posts, limit who I connect with, and follow folks who share industry news of interest to me.

    8. When I think about all the things I will enjoy most in retirement (about 1 year 3 months away), deleting the LI app is among top five. I hate scroll it now, and have to occasionally post as part of my role. But I despise it, and similar to FB, it has literally changed my positive impression of some people to negative b/c I can’t stand the self-promotion, faux humbleness, and the fawning. So. Much.Fawning. Gag me with a spoon, as my teenage self used to say.

    9. Yeah, I understand where you’re coming from. I rarely, rarely post on LinkedIn. It makes me so uncomfortable. I will like other people’s posts with abandon, but that’s the extent of it. I’m sure I’m getting in my own way.

    10. Unfollow the people that do this so they don’t show up in your feed, and curate it to the posts that you actually need to see to participate.

      1. Yes – LinkedIn is like Twitter or Facebook. It is what you make of it (advertising aside). Unfollow people you find seriously annoying.

        I have a soft spot for LinkedIn because two years ago when my entire company went under with very little warning, resulting in hundreds of people suddenly finding themselves unemployed with no severance, LinkedIn helped me find a new job (one of my contacts had a friend) and I was able to put two of my former co-workers in touch with people who hired them. Like a lot of networking, it can be fake and painful, but when you need it (and you never know when you will need it), it can be invaluable.

    11. LinkedIn does seem to have become the Facebook of yore where people post long, personal updates. Sometimes I like it – posts on mental health, careers not being linear, work-family balances, etc can have useful messages. But some of it is very silly. Weird political ramblings, super personal anecdotes that really should not be shared with the world at large, and a lot of faux humility and humblebragging.

    12. I did chuckle when someone who I know from my school days, attended one of the worlds most elite schools, studied sports science at university because it enabled them to play their sport for the university and graduated to join Big4, where her father was a partner…shared on LinkedIn she worked during university in retail because she had to. Excuse me but when your parents are able to pay $70k for your tuition for 7 years you don’t need to work in retail. I happened to know she ‘worked’ in the store because she was a brand rep through her sport.

      Her humble brag 3 years ago on LinkedIn was how she got her new job…she joined the local tennis club. I know the tennis club. It’s extremely expensive and you need 3 existing members to support your application to join. The existing members I know who are members of said tennis club are all people she went to school with. Not everyone has a family who can afford $70k in tuition a year and when you do, you shut up about the doors it opens for you and make sure you use that privilege to open the door for others.

        1. This response isn’t appropriate. It’s okay to point out that people who were born on third base should not act like they hit triples.

          I am not the Anon above; I will just say that I have different reactions to people in the same circumstances depending on their attitude. The offspring of extreme wealth, one of whom is a prissy princess witch about it and the other of whom takes the attitude that she doesn’t deserve this good fortune? Yeah, I feel differently about those two people.

      2. It kind of sounds like she is just competing w/her own set. There are parents who pay for tuition on the condition that the student work and cover some expenses from their own income; I get that that is a privileged sense of “had to,” but it’s still different from just having a credit card. Fine to chuckle though!

        1. I don’t think the OP above thinks there’s anything wrong with the way that the LinkedIn poster has went about school or getting jobs. However the LinkedIn poster doesn’t have to post on linked in about how she worked through school and got her job; I’d roll my eyes too.

          1. Exactly this. I rolled my eyes all the way round and yes we laughed about it together. I’m not jealous of her at all and yes that’s how you get ahead. It’s not what you know, it’s who you know and your ability to ‘get on’ with others.

          2. I’d roll my eyes at the post but not at the parents. I don’t have the resources of the Big 4 dad, but I am paying for tuition, room and board not covered by my daughter’s merit scholarship and expecting her to earn her own spending money. There is no moral high ground in forcing your kid to start off adult life at a disadvantage because they are saddled with student loans.

    13. all the people on my team “liking” posts about how awful return to office requirements are, when my office requires 5 days in office. They have to know I see this right?

      2. Honestly they might not realize – sure, they have to know you /could/ see it; but LinkedIn is way more aggressive about putting everything you do in front of everyone you know, to create the illusion of engagement

        1. to clarify, I’m indifferent to the policy, have no feelings about my team “liking” these posts, and just chuckle and move on with my day. If they need to WFH I let them.

      3. Perhaps you should take the hint that your team doesn’t like RTO. Hopefully your competitors aren’t seeing the same and using that intel to poach your people

    14. I was laid off earlier this year and my “coaching” service as part of my severance package has pushed me to use LinkedIn… it is a cesspool. Everyone’s humbled and honored, everyone likes posts about toxic bosses, and the worst are the people who are consultants/coaches pushing their own services who post longform sob stories about how XYZ life bump led them to this epiphany that people come first.

      Then there are the inexplicable political posts, and I have no idea why anyone would put extreme propaganda on their ostensibly professional internet presence (no matter their political affiliation!)

      TL/DR, I hate it so much.

      1. Also, the aggressive messaging from randos trying to tell you something. “Hey I see you’re working at XYZ company, how is that going?”. “Hey why aren’t you responding?”. Ugh, either tell me what you want or go away.

        1. The only messages I get are people tring to sell me listings in “Who’s Who” and similar scams.

    15. I’m regularly embarrassed for former colleagues on LinkedIn. And yes, I’ve had the same thought “do they think this is Facebook?”

      Not once has this made me think more highly of them.

    16. I barely go on Linkedin anymore for this reason. Not to sound a million years old but I remember when Facebook was in beta and it was like a yearbook and felt very fun and exclusive…. now it’s like a giant cesspool of click bait. And I totally agree Linkedin has become the new Facebook and I’m on it very rarely because I really don’t need to see all the self congratulatory posts beginning with “I am thrilled to share…”

    17. LinkedIn is the most vapid of social media in my opinion, because of that. I almost never use it.

    18. Recently, a candidate I interviewed and didn’t advance added and messaged me on LI asking for feedback about why she didn’t get hired. She had my email from the calendar invite. I had told her to email me with any questions. It felt so invasive for her to show up in my LI. She was a fine candidate, but not the best fit, and now I have a negative impression of her. It felt very invasive and desperate.

      1. Really? A LinkedIn message doesn’t feel particularly invasive to me – it feels similar to her using your corporate email. You can ignore it or write whatever generic thing you want if you don’t want to give real feedback

        1. eh, in this case I don’t like it bc it feels like it’s fishing for 12:17 to go off the record. like you’re already in contact one way; don’t add a separate chain to the mix.

      2. Invasive?? You know how LinkedIn is supposed to work, right? I think you’re the weird one in this scenario.

        2. Nah, it’s super weird for a rejected applicant to ask why she wasn’t hired.

    19. A friend posted a series of very personal stories on LinkedIn every day of Black History Month. She asked for my opinion after the first couple posts, and I gently discouraged her from posting additional personal stories but she ignored my advice and posted them anyway. She got a lot of engagement and positive feedback, plus offers for speaking engagements and a potential book deal. She works in HR so clearly she understood how to use LinkedIn and I do not.

      1. Yeah, even if I understood this, I still just…would not do that. This is also why I’m not an influencer, I’m uncomfortable with monetizing my personal life.

  2. My hair is suddenly feeling really dry. I’ve never had this issue before, nothing new in the routine apart from what I’m assuming are a lot of bodily changes in general related to almost 50 lbs of weight loss recently… could that be a factor? Anyway, I need something extra. Is this what a hair mask is for? I’ve seen recs for straight coconut oil but idk why that kind of weirds me out, plus I don’t know if I want to wash that down my drain. Open to any and all product recs with a bonus if I can get it from prime. My hair is not quite wavy/not quite straight, shoulder length, washed no more than 3x/week and sometimes only 2x, and I’m 40 in case any of that matters. TIA!

    2. I don’t have a product recommendation, but I was recently having the same problem– my hair was really dry and tangling and straw-like. I realized my issue was just that I was using too much product on it, and it had become a self-perpetuating thing. Like, my hair is unhealthy, let me use more product, oh no it’s even worse. Took me way too long to figure out, hah.

      1. I recently got a sample of the Oliplex clarifying shampoo and was shocked how great my scalp and hair felt afterward.

    3. I experimented with straight coconut oil on my daughter’s hair and it was a disaster! My hair is a lot like yours and masks feel too heavy to me. I prefer a hair oil like Ouai or Oribe.

      1. So I use the Ouai hair oil after every blow dry and agree that it’s great. I think I’m in need of more of a “treatment” or leave in… or something? Plan on talking to my stylist about it at my next apt in two weeks, too.

    4. I use jojoba oil on the ends. I find it helps to soften it up. My hair gets dryer every winter though.

    6. If you are using a lot of dry shampoo instead of washing your hair, that could dry it out. Maybe wash a little more often and use some good conditioner.

    7. you local drug store/pharmacy may have small packets (enough for 2-3 uses) of different hair masks, which could be a low stakes way to find one that works well for you hair. While you are there, get a shower cap so that you can apply the mask, bundle it up in the cap, and go along with your shower. On mask days, I usually will do all the extra things, like full body exfoliation, while the mask is on.

    8. Clarifying shampoo once every 1-3 weeks depending on how much product you use + leave in conditioner

    9. You probably don’t want to hear this because it will be unwelcome as the weather cools down, but cooler water in the shower and no hot tools. That includes a hairdryer. Get a new haircut and use a bond repairing product.

    10. try the VO5 oil — you put it in a cup of hot water for a minute, then put it on your hair, then shampoo. I’ve seen good results. There are a ton of other hair masks out there that are a PITA because you have to sit with them for 20-30 minutes, with fully wet hair, which in the wintertime is the last thing I want to do. They do make heated caps.

      I also liked the Not Your Mother’s matcha green tea and apple blossom hair mask – that one only needs to be left on for 2-3 minutes in the shower.

      You might also want to do a clarifying shampoo like Suave just to make sure you don’t have product buildup.

  3. Help me find the unicorn pair of leggings to wear under long sweaters, tunics, etc. My perfect pair is ponte, thick enough that is looks more like pants that what you would wear to the gym, but still is a legging rather than a skinny jean- I want it to adhere to the leg all the way to the ankle and not bunch around the knee or ankle. I don’t want super-compression but am happy to size up to avoid that. Have tried the Vince Camuto brand, but they are a bit short and so end kind of abruptly above the ankle.

    Wearing it with this and a pair of shunky lug sole loafers in case a visual will help.

    https://www.saksfifthavenue.com/product/cinq-%C3%A0-sept-santina-layered-mini-dress-0400017429043.html?dwvar_0400017429043_color=CHARCOAL%20RAIN%20CLOUD

    Brands welcome – not too concerned about cost, as I’ve wasted a lot of time on this search.

    2. I feel like the answer here is plain black cotton blend ones from Old Navy or Uniqlo heat tech because some types are slicker and let things flow over better.

    3. You might be having trouble finding some because leggings under tunics is not really a thing right now.

      1. Good point, although I still see plenty of leggings being sold. Loving so much that I am at the point in life where I wear what I like and makes me happy, even if past its due date.

    4. I used to love the Everlane bi-stretch work pant for this purpose. They’re a substantial fabric, somewhere between a trouser and a legging, with the fitted legging cut and a seam down the back like old fashioned stockings. I find them super flattering, because the fabric is thicker, is sorta sucks you in, at the stomach region. They don’t make them anymore, but I just picked up a NWT pair on ebay for $15. The only thing is that they don’t wash super well, so I try to limit the amount of washes I put them through.

    5. Could you switch the search you’re doing, and search for ponte pants in a skinny cut? That might get you closer to what you want, and you could always have the legline altered to be narrower if they’re not as close to your leg as you’re looking for.

        1. Old Navy has a pair right now that I’m happy with. And I believe they have Regular/Tall/Petite lengths too so that might help with the length issue.

    6. Try googling “skinny pants women” – a lot of promising options came up.

      For a minidress like this you might just want to go with classic opaque tights though like Commando, or fleece-lined tights.

    7. I like MeMoi, but haven’t purchased in several.years so.I don’t know a “model” to.recommend. Mine are just a flat black.

    8. I’m I the only one that thinks that link at Saks is pretty hilarious – as a mini dress?

  4. We have had a few secrets threads recently. Any updates on the inappropriate crushes thread?

    2. I don’t really care for my one coworker one way or another but we’ve been working on a tough project together and I’ve developed a bit of a crush I think from his work ethic (and it’s been long established that he’s physically attractive). I’m sure it’ll go away shortly though because I usually find him annoying.

      Somewhat recently I’ve been having dreams featuring my high school crush though

    3. I missed the original thread, but I have a small, slight crush on my tenant, that I’m trying to block out of my mind.

    4. My years-long colleague crush is still going strong. We interact daily and travel together every few months. Nothing ever happens and neither of use would blow up our careers or marriages over this. The best way I can describe it is that we are both crushing on the mutual chemistry rather than on each other, so it works.

      1. I had an inappropriate work crush like this! I don’t know if it was reciprocated, but we no longer work together, remain friends, text regularly, and meet up when he’s in my city for work. I am less attracted to him when I see him in person because he is totally not my physical type.

    5. I wrote a while ago about romantic tension with a married friend and deciding to just lean in to break the tension. One night when I gave him a ride home we did just kiss in the car for a few minutes and since then there has been some flirty banter but I feel like all the tension and any intent to actually pursue something has dissipated.

      2. Imma let this go because it’s a secrets thread, but yikes. Your married friend is a sleaze for letting this happen.

        1. I mean, it was his idea. He is the one who pushed it. Giving in was my way of testing what he wanted, which I do not believe is an actual physical relationship with me. And I think we both realized we didn’t really want it to actually happen, which helped.
          I don’t really know what his wife would think. I have met her a few times but mostly she doesn’t socialize and she’s generally not been very nice to me at all.
          He told me not too long ago, shortly after we kissed, that she asked him about me after seeing texts and gave him “permission”, since they don’t have much of a physical.relationship at this point. (All of this is his reporting, and I don’t necessarily believe it or act on it as if it is true.) Like I said, we kissed and we haven’t even come close since even though we still socialize often and he never brought up the “permission” again, which tells me he is not interested. The interactions have all been more appropriate since, though there is still occasional flirtation. And I am definitely not going to engage in anything physical again. it was an experiment and I have my own relationship that I care about. I have told my BF about the flirtation so he is aware of it, but not the full extent because I don’t think anyone benefits from that in any way.

          1. Obviously she’s not nice to you, you’re the mistress. He does not have permission. Stop being a pick me.

          2. Ha. She doesn’t even know who I am. She should, but she wasn’t nice enough to remember my name. I am certainly not “the mistress.”

          3. I’m the one who started this thread and personally, I’m avoiding judgement on anyone.

            A lot of people IRL tell me things that they don’t tell many other people, and I’ve learned through my own painful marriage that you never know what is going on behind closed doors. (Lots of people assumed they knew better than I did what the deal was. Okay, jerks.) This isn’t to say that he has permission or he doesn’t, just that the only two people who know are him and his wife.

    6. I had a fling over the summer with a co-worker who happens to live near me and things were just too messy in his life (divorce, kids), so he ended it in a very it’s not you it’s me way. He since left my company and we haven’t spoken in months. I happened to be at an event at his new company recently (didn’t see him) and decided if I was still thinking about him 2 weeks later I would text to say just that with no expectation he would respond. Well, reader, he responded and now we are planning to hang out soon… can’t imagine things will be different, but hey I need some distraction after the election!

  5. I usually send my sister and BIL a food gift, like a cheese board or Zingerman’s gift box of baked goods or something. They are hard to shop for but they seem to enjoy these types of food consumables. This year our family will be staying with them for five days after Xmas. Should I still give a food gift? It would be delivered to their house but they would probably put it out for all of us to snack on. If we are all snacking on it then would it still be considered a gift to them?

    1. What are people wearing for Thanksgiving this year? We will be in LA, and in years last, I’ve worn dresses — but everything just feels blah now.

    2. I’d send it as a New Year’s present and give something smaller for Christmas if you want them to unwrap something. I’d also be sure to either cook or pay for a few meals while you’re there.

    3. I’d still send the food gift. But since you’ll be there, you could also take them out for a nice meal and/or an event you’d all enjoy? Though I guess I’d probably do that anyway as a thank you for hosting, so I guess it depends on whether you come up with something special enough to feel more like a gift.

    4. Send the food gift as usual, given that you will be missing Christmas and visiting them after Christmas. You may bring a “hostess” gift for your visit, and yes, take them out for dinner and/or lunch while visiting. I hope this helps!

    5. I’d still do it – maybe send them something frozen, so it’s more likely they’ll use it later, for themselves, rather than put it out when you’re there? (Something like steaks, pie, etc.)

    6. slight threadjack – why do people give gifts to like everyone they know for Christmas? I don’t celebrate Christmas and I actually love gift giving, but there are always people who seem to be stressing about giving whoever the perfect gift. It seems to create so much emotional labor and stress, especially when many adults can just buy themselves what they want

      1. As a Jewish person who now has Christian in laws I also find it more stressful than it’s worth. In my extended family we only exchange casual gifts between parents and kids, plus gift cards between siblings. DH’s family requires thoughtful physical gifts between all adults: parents, siblings, and siblings in law plus a few selected aunts and uncles. There are unspoken expectations about the dollar amount, perfect gift wrapping, and making it something completely unique each year. I find it exhausting but I go along with it.

      2. I don’t think shopping for gifts is stressful, I think it’s fun! I enjoy researching what would be the perfect gift for them, the excuse to go shopping, the anticipation of giving the gift to the recipient, and the recipient’s reaction if they like the gift. It does take work and research and thought but I enjoy that process. It’s a nice distraction.

        1. Same, I don’t have a personal religion, my husband and in-laws are Jewish but I see it as a fun time of year to get my friends a little thought. I have a lot of fun with it and it isn’t stressful at all.

        2. +1, I love it. I see it as such a joy to think about what the recipient would really love, would use, what would make their days just a bit brighter to have. And I take pride in gift wrapping and bows, so the whole experience feels special. Any opportunity to make a loved one feel special is precious!

      3. I don’t know. I’m Jewish and Hanukkah is primarily a kids holidays so I have basically no experience giving or receiving gifts as an adult. I *love* shopping for my kids, nieces/nephews, friends’ kids and participating in our school giving tree where we buy gifts for kids in need. All of that is fun and fulfilling and low stress. But I wouldn’t know what to get the adults in my life (including, perhaps especially, my husband!) and would also have no idea what to ask for for myself. I don’t really like physical stuff and on the rare occasions there’s something I want, I just buy it. I’m so glad I don’t have to worry about gifting among adults.

    8. I’d send the food gift early so they enjoy it themselves before you all arrive. When you’re there I’d get some things for breakfast (local pastries, bagels, etc.) and bring a hostess gift for your sister.

    1. Yes — I have the less-expensive one from JCF and even it rocks. But this is almost dreamy.

        1. It’s a true cherry/orange undertones red. But it’s red red. Like Big Apple Red nail polish

  7. putting politics aside, i’ve been trying to understand why some people are so excited about Trump’s tariffs on Chinese goods and I must be missing something because I don’t really get how it will make things less expensive. I do understand how it might encourage companies to move some manufacturing back to the U.S. and then there will be more competition for labor, so wages might increase for those types of roles, and thus individual purchasing power could increase….but unless the government subsidizes all of these companies/products a lot, aren’t the goods just also going to become more expensive? and how does this make things cheaper or change the purchasing power of a teacher from AZ for example?

    2. To be fair, I think they’re more excited about the possibility of manufacturing jobs possibly coming back to the US, which may or may not happen or be worth the cost. They won’t decrease prices, though. The Trump washing machine tariffs just led to big price increases on both washers and dryers, even though there was no tariff on dryers! There were a few more US jobs, though.

      1. Yeah I think people don’t completely understand how tariffs work. But there definitely is a demographic that is hoping that good manufacturing jobs will come back to the US. I think that was one of the strongest messages of the Trump campaign (unfortunately. I wish the Harris campaign had been better at messaging re: the economy).

    3. Much like “build the wall,” people mistakenly believe the other country is going to pay for it.

    4. For many people, correctly identifying the problem matters more than the proposed solution.

    5. Those goods are inexpensive because they are made in sweatshops that pollute the environment.

      I’m of the firm belief that we all live on the same Earth, and pollution in China isn’t inherently less bad than pollution in America. Additionally, American factories are held to higher standards, so the same goods are produced with less pollution here.

      Likewise, workers in foreign counties are still people, and I think our goods should be manufactured by people who aren’t being abused. We cannot – for a whole host of reasons – control Chinese and Indian working conditions; we can, however, make it harder to sell those goods in America.

      1. I agree with you for the most part, but I think that consumer expectations for how much something should cost are not going to change, so to deal with tariffs the producers are going to engage in more terrible environmental and labor practices, and lower quality even further, to cut costs and minimize how much they have to raise their prices.

          2. Yup. And I guess if the government gets more money, they can reduce income taxes more… as they suggested indirectly. I wonder who’s taxes will go down for the next 4 years….

        2. In theory, the workers would no longer be Chinese but American, subject to American worker protections. In theory. That doesn’t actually leave the Chinese workers any better off.

    6. Let’s let the Trump voters answer. They seemed to have all the answers (and a lot of judgment against Harris voters) after the election.

    7. I believe the tariff conversation is something of a dog-whistle signaling for a desire to return to post-WWII America, where condiments came in glass containers and union factory jobs could support a family of four, and certain groups were on the top of the social pyramid very unchallenged. I think it’s a kind of signal that somehow this candidate/president elect is going to “roll back the clock” to some mythical golden age of America, which *many* older people wax poetic about.

      1. +1 I think you’re onto something. I wish all jobs paid a living wage with benefits. I’m skeptical that factory work is the be all end all of the American dream. But I’m an idiot liberal so what do I know?

        1. I’m an idiot liberal who has worked in manufacturing and it was a constant fight to get and keep good employees because it’s hard, dirty, sometimes uncomfortable work. Some of it was due to employment practices and some because people are soft.
          Most states don’t have strong unions, so management always has the upper hand, and while pay is often decent, it comes at the price of a ton of mandatory overtime and other employment practices that make it tough to stick around for a full career. Also, pensions are largely a thing of the past outside some legacy companies.

          1. I work in manufacturing now. We cannot find enough workers. There’s a reason that Springfield OH was rejoicing the entrance of Haitian immigrants. They need somebody to fill these jobs, and native Ohioans are not doing it for one reason or another. Of course, when the Haitians worked hard and starting building a little bit of wealth, some people got jealous.

          2. Americans have no problem working in manufacturing for fair wages and humane labor conditions, stop lying.

          3. Nobody’s lying. Americans don’t want to work manufacturing if they can help it, even when the jobs offer good wages and humane labor conditions. Sorry that doesn’t comport with whatever ideas you have rattling around in your head.

          4. +1 to no one’s lying. Even when you go higher than the prevailing wage in the area, it’s hard to find people who will reliably show up to do repetitive, somewhat physical (up to about 30 lbs lifting usually less), on your feet most of the day work. It sometimes was a bit warm or cooler than an office but not drastically so and one could dress adequately for it. PPE was always provided. Health insurance, etc were typical for any medium to large company. Blue collar and white collar employees had the same benefits.
            The downsides were a lot of mandatory overtime due to staffing issues, a fairly draconian tardiness policy which was a bit of an own-goal, IMO, and cleaning days kind of sucked.
            The perks were a paid lunch break, free product, double time and a half on holidays, better than average pay for the area, advancement opportunities within the plant and ability to transfer to other facilities.
            The repetitiveness of the work was a double-edged sword. It’s nice to zone out a bit and save your mental energy for your own time. On the other hand, doing the same thing for hours on end gets boring. Where I worked did rotate people on tasks every few hours, which gave you something else to look at/different people to be around and was nice. It’s also good for ergonomics/injury prevention.
            So, that’s a short version of pluses and minuses of manufacturing in Small Town USA, where we can’t find people to fill those spots.

    8. Trump said that he would impose tariffs on China and Mexico unless they move to stop the flow of fentanyl into the US. I don’t know if that will work or not, but if I lived in a community hit hard by drug use, or lost people I loved to drugs, I’d support almost anything that will help.

    9. This is an issue where I find both the D and R positions incongruous with their stated platforms. Republicans are supposed to be for “free trade”, right? And Dems like to talk about fair labor conditions; discouraging the purchase of cheap sweatshop goods
      would fit that aim.

      (I feel the same way about the SALT cap. I thought Repubs are all about lowering taxes for the rich! And Dems should support taxing the rich! But not when it’s their constituents…)

      Anyway, as a D myself I’m thinking the aims of moving away from Chinese goods may be a good step, even if it hurts the wallet and is done for a populist cause.

      1. The SALT cap really doesn’t affect the RICH much, as their tax deductions are much larger using other lines on the tax form. It hits more middle class/upper middle class harder in Democratic states that have higher state taxes and property taxes.

    10. thanks all. sounds like my understanding is not unreasonable and that the Trump campaign just did a very good job convincing people that somehow his plan will lower the prices of goods

    11. People in my small city in MA voted Trump for the first time in decades. They seem to think he’ll bring back the manufacturing jobs that all closed up shop in the 80s and 90s. Even though he didn’t in his first term. Even though these are not good paying jobs. Even though these aren’t even particularly safe jobs. Somehow they think that’ll lift the city out of poverty.

      1. This. They’re going to make things worse for everyone. Economists have been screaming about this for the past three months.

  8. People who hire lawyers and accountants – are you ever upset at NOT receiving a holiday/end of year gift or card? I worked for a finance team before going to law school and remember the piles of food baskets and stacks of cards from vendors. I never remember hearing “oh, Such and Such never sends a gift/card.” I do remember hearing if So and So stopped sending the same gift. I’m trying to figure out if this is really something I need to manage and keep track of as a private practice lawyer- my firm doesn’t have admin support for this. If yes, I’ll do it. If no, I would rather skip it.

    1. Honestly, I would rather get a card from my firm saying they’ve made a donation to a worthy nonprofit in lieu of gifts as the stuff that is sent is just more stuff…out of a basket of ten items, might use one? Just a lot of waste even before you think of packaging, transport, etc.

    2. We have certain firms who are known for great gifts (like, amazing but now I see why our invoices are so high), weird gifts (prepare your bingo card), nominal gifts (branded letter openers in bulk), and charitable gifts (fundraiser candy bars). These ones are noticed if anything changes. Other firms that are inconsistent in their gift giving are noticed. The firms that don’t give gifts at all are not remarked on at all.

    3. Never have given it a thought. Nor have I ever picked a vendor based on their holiday gifts so it’s always struck me as wasted effort.

    4. I think if you start doing it it’s hard to stop, but if you don’t do it then it’s not remarkable. From our vendor partners we receive a variety of things. My favorite is this giant poster calendar that is really just beautiful photographs with the calendar dates on the bottom. Very limited branding.

      If you are just going to send very company branded gear, I’d say skip it. I will not use 99% of the company branded stuff I get given.

      We give a cheese and sausage box to our top 100 customers. One year we did fudge and pretzels and we got comments about it, like they customers missed the cheese and sausage box. Which I get, since a cheese and sausage tray or box goes super fast in our office. its sort of a pain to manage but I make it worse by complicating who gets on the list.

    5. I think you should absolutely send a card, at a minimum. I have a strong preference for physical cards over E-cards and, anecdotally, E-cards are off-putting to some recipients in a way that is worse than no card at all. The card should also be attractive and cheerful, which seems like an easy box to check but I’ve received many cards that somehow fail on that front.

      Yes, it takes effort but not a substantial amount.

      1. I find e-cards a bit off-putting as well. Particularly those that say the expense of a card has been donated to “charity.” A paper card will cost, what, maybe $1.50 total to mail? So you’ve contributed $1.50 to an unnamed charity? Not impressive. Send a card, and state in the card that you’ve donated to xyz charity on behalf of your clients this holiday season.

    6. Once, in post-pandemic times, a consulting firm I used sent FROZEN FISH FILETS to my office. Chilean Sea Bass. I’m sure it would have been delicious, but the dry ice was long gone by the time by the time I got them the next week on one of my 2 weekly in-office days, and I didn’t trust unrefrigerated fish. Luckily it was vacuum sealed, so no smell.

      I do appreciate gifts from my personal financial advisor, but I don’t think I’d miss them if they didn’t show up.

    7. My favorite thing is a card signed by all the staff that I work with. I put it out as soon as I receive it and throw it away sometime around New Year’s. I don’t need a box of chocolates, I don’t need the pounds. Do not worry about this at all.

      1. By the way, I only want this from a firm where I actually do daily work with the staff. I do not care about nor do I want a card from some firm who put me on their mailing list because I attended the same conference they did.

    8. Agree that really spectacular gifts are noted and appreciated, a regular gift that suddenly stops is noted and remarked on in a bad way, ecards are awful and paper cards are nice. Beyond that, I don’t think you need to start gift-giving if it hasn’t been your practice up to now.

      1. +1

        An e-card actually is worse than no card. Nothing says “I appreciate your business” like the marketing intern setting up an email blast.

        1. I’ve posted here before. My favorite client sends a curated foodie box. So it’s all local (to them) products like crackers, jam, nuts, candy, herbs, etc. I really look forward to that one every year. It’s as close to no-waste as possible, but that may just be me and my interest in cooking and food.

        2. I’ve posted mine before, too: A giant five-pound gold box of Godiva chocolates. I still remember it 25-plus years later.

    1. Are you talking about the piece on parents grieving that they will not be grandparents because their adult kids decided not to have kids?

      As a child free by choice person, it just made me very grateful for my sister and SIL who supplied the grandkid(s) for parents/inlaws.

    2. If boomers hadn’t made the world so terrible, maybe more millennials and Gen Z would be having kids. Sorry not sorry.

      2. Yeah, as a GenX, I’m mad at the way the boomer generation destroyed the world. Not at my college daughter for her desire to never have kids because she doesn’t want to subject them to this mess.

      3. I feel really bad for the Boomers who aren’t the “problem” – I saw plenty of tweets about this talking of having multimillionaire parents with vacation homes while their millennial kids can’t afford to have their own children from student debt or something.

        My parents may or may not have grandkids (I hope to have kids but I’m 31 and single so idk, my brother is a year younger and recently single), but if they don’t have grandkids I do feel bad for them because they’ve been nothing but great: a nurse and a science teacher (we were composting and avoiding single use plastic before it was cool, they helped as much as they could with college but I have manageable loans because they’re obviously not millionaires, and they taught us to be self sufficient / work hard and live within our means)

        1. Same. We grew up in a 3BR 1BA apartment and we never took vacations, only family visits out of state.

      4. You realize that before the boomers, civil rights were materially worse for women and minorities, right? Like, you really want to go back to a pre-boomer culture???

        ISTG, this is the same pessimistic and ahistorical attitude that underpins the whole “make America great again” ethos.

      5. This “boomers destroyed the world “tidbit is a gross generalization that needs to die. It’s not clever and it’s not accurate. I’m not a boomer, I’m Gen X, but I’m smart enough and thoughtful enough to think about things beyond a soundbite.

        1. Yah I’m a millennial and agree. Every generation has its pros and cons. And every generation has had healing to do from the previous one (it can’t have been easy to have been raised by the Greatest Generation; great as it was in many ways, it was steeped in trauma of war and the depression).

          Honestly, give me a boomer over Gen Z any day. Gen Z is perfecting the art of navel-gazing under the guise of caring about others

      6. That is the most miserable bitter thing to say. Boomers have nothing to do with why people are not having children. Wow.

        1. Well there is actual research on this. Anecdotally and statistically there are people who hire financial advisors to help them plan how to spend all their money and leave as little as possible. And others who managed their finances so poorly they need help. It makes it hard for their kids to stay in the same social class as them and puts pressure on relationships.

          1. For group 1: So? It’s their money. If they aren’t imposing on you at end of life and they got you through high school, that’s a great outcome.

          2. So they don’t end up getting grandkids, which is what we were talking about? Even the view that “it’s their money” is itself a really outlier perspective historically and one of the things that stands out vs. other generations.

          3. I’m a millennial and I don’t think
            It’s my parents job to dictate my social class. They didn’t need to give me a good financial launch pad nor do they need to leave me money when they die – it’s their money not mine

          4. It makes sense that you think this because boomers introduced this way of thinking, but in most times and places all over the world, most people have tried to set up their kids financially within their ability to do so; it’s a huge break from tradition.

          1. My son can’t wait to have kids and I am Gen. X. It is funny to me that we have had more material goods and access to health and sanitary conditions during the past 100 years than any other generation in history but you don’t want kids because you are more concered with driving a new car and taking vacations. I mean, it is your choice. But don’t be mad about it.

        3. Are boomers not the ones making the policies and cutting funding that discourage people from having children? Everything from a lack of parental leave to unaffordable childcare to rising housing and food prices to killing our planet.

          2. Please point to a time in history where parental leave was better and childcare not provided by a parent was cheaper.

          3. I am a boomer. I used six weeks of sick leave as my total parental leave with each of my kids because that’s all there was. Most today at least have job security for longer FML, and can thank boomers for that.

    3. We recently visited some family friends (friends of my parents, I was friends with their daughters, we are still in touch but not close anymore, my parents are still close with the parents). I brought my 2 year old with me. They completely lit up when she entered the room, and to be honest, it made me really sad for them. Both daughters have chosen not to have children, and I totally get why people do that. But these people were meant to be parents. They had such a warm, loving, home when we were growing up. And I could tell how sad it made them not to have the bond that my parents had with my daughter. I don’t know what I’m saying here – again, no judgement on why people choose not to have kids, but it was a little sad to me that these lovely people who love kids won’t get to be grandparents.

    5. I have no sympathy. My parents are freaking out and currently offering my siblings and I money to try and get a grandkid but it’s never going to happen. I am a believer of living with consequences and having no grandchildren is a consequence they shall have to live with.

      1. What did they do that leads to these consequences? Is it something they personally did or are you punishing them for being boomers?

        1. They basically stopped raising me at 12, I paid for my own education, down payment, healthcare, everything. My whole life from the age of pre-teen to now has been self financed. Yeah forcing your 13 year old to pay for their own dentist appointments because you want to get on a cruise is a choice with consequences.

          2. I wouldn’t say I’m not having grandchildren to punish my parents, but the way my mother parented me definitely contributed to me not wanting to have children. I don’t think she enjoyed being a mother and I don’t want to pass that down.

      2. You aren’t having kids to punish your parents? I mean, good, because it doesn’t sound like you’d be a good parent. But this sounds weird.

        1. I don’t see where she said that she’s not having kids to punish her parents? She’s refusing to give in to her parents’ attempted bribery, which sounds like a good thing. Bribing your kids to have grandkids is hella weird, and I say that as someone who is very affluent and will probably set up college funds and possibly trust funds for my grandkids, if I have them.

    6. Why are boomers portrayed as so evil? I spend a fair amount of time with not only my parents and aunts and uncles but also my parents’ friends. It’s a wide range of wealth and lack thereof, political views, levels of environmentalism, religion, etc.

      They’re all community minded, kind people. I don’t agree with all of them on all topics, and I think some of them vote too much based on their interests and not the greater good – but those are the blue collar, small business owners barely getting by, not the lawyers and bankers of the group. There are Catholics who begrudgingly came around on gay marriage – later than they “should” have, but they did come around.

      1. Social media is damaging their brains. For real. I am GenX married to a boomer. We didn’t start the fire. And our Gen Z son wants kids before he is 30 years old.

          1. Funny how generations can be decades long, and also that not all members of a generation follow a single stereotype.

          2. 12:14: You are confused as to how an older Gen X and be married to a young boomer? Boomers ended at 1964-64 and Gen X starts at 65-66. Geez.
            12-52 – True, FOX news destroyed my mother’s brain. The media is causing this silly gender divide among all of us and that hatred and blame is sad.
            The women on this site have better living conditions, shelter, freedom, jobs, rights, and access to healthcare than any of our grandmothers or great-grandmothers. Boo hoo.

          3. 12:14: You are confused as to how an older genX can be married to a young boomer?

        2. I agree that social media is damaging brains, but I don’t agree that that damage is limited to a specific generation. There are a lot of commenters here who have become very comfortable with reductionist, stereotype-based, black and white thinking, and I seriously doubt they are all from one generation.

      2. Many of them spent decades voting for politicians that screwed us over with climate change and the accumulation of wealth and power among a tiny minority as the middle class shrinks. My own parents, and I think many other boomers, escaped personally experiencing the consequences. My parents are oblivious or in denial about how I’m impacted. They say “but you’re rich so you’re fine.” In reality that money doesn’t buy the same lifestyle or security that it used to. And the impacts of climate change are only just beginning. I’m not saying my parents are specifically responsible for all of this but I get very frustrated when they brush off my concerns.

    7. I have thoughts on the comments. People were so hard on the grandparents for grieving. I don’t judge them for grieving. I would judge them if they were guilt-tripping their kids, of course.

      I will get hate for this but I also don’t necessarily believe a college-aged kid who says they never want to be a parent. I said that in college, too, and I am a very happy mom of three. My late teen and young adults have not really said whether they want to be parents or not. It isn’t a topic of conversation and I can’t imagine making it one.

      1. I agree with your second paragraph. It’s *extremely* common to not want kids in college and change your mind. That was me and basically all my close female friends.

        1. This is true but college kids want and don’t want lots of things that change over time, like where they want to live, what type of career they want, etc. Plenty of college kids change their mind about wanting kids but it’s obnoxious to pretend like they automatically will. It’s totally normal for peoples goals and dreams to change over time but I think it’s obnoxious to assume that everyone will change their mind on kids.

          1. Where did I say everyone will change their minds? Many will, some don’t. You can still take it with a heaping spoonful of salt when a college kid makes a big proclamation about not wanting kids (or pretty much any other life thing, tbh). You don’t need to say to their face “you’ll change your mind” – I don’t think starting an argument about it has any value. But it’s not something I’d give a lot of weight to in my own mind.

      2. It’s true, I was staunchly Childfree until I had my first child. Turns out there is something to this biological drive business after all.

    8. I am very close with my aunt and uncle who tried but could not have kids, they’re basically second parents to me.

      I hope to have kids in the future, but I mentioned that I know a handful of people who don’t plan on having them for different reasons but no roof those reasons were not wanting them (issues getting pregnant or carrying a pregnancy to term, environmental, financial, career goals).

      Their take was basically that they’re so sad for these people, because they know the pain of wanting kids but not having them and they hope that people who want kids are able to have them despite other concerns

      1. I struggled with fertility issues and I could see how desperately wanting to be a grandparent could be similarly painful as wanting to be a parent and unable to.
        That said there are plenty of ways to “adopt” a grandkid in your community and provide love and support to them.
        Our neighbor is a widow with no grandkids and she is a huge part of my son’s life. They love each other as if they were bio grandma/grandson

        1. How could not having grandkids possibly be as painful as primary infertility? That’s insane.

    9. I was horrified at all the mean comments about how entitled/selfish the grandparents in the article were. I didn’t read them as entitled or selfish at all. They supported their kids’ decision. That doesn’t make it any easier for them. Why would it be surprising that someone would be disappointed to never be a grandparent? For the entirety of human history until the last 20-30 years, it was a totally normal expectation. To have that expectation dashed is probably jarring and I would be sad, too. That doesn’t mean they should guilt their kids, but it’s ok for people to feel their feelings. That doesn’t make them selfish. But then, I also don’t subscribe to this belief that children owe their parents nothing, yadda yadda yadda.

      People are just so mean these days. Christ.

      1. Thank you. That was pretty much my take. It’s not okay to guilt your kids but you can’t help feeling how you feel.

        2. And I am sure you didn’t ruin the world or abuse your child into not wanting children, SA.

      2. I also thought the would-be grandparents were very reasonable and supportive of their kids’ choices. It’s fine for them to wish for grandchildren as long as they don’t expect their children to make that wish come true.

        People say the boomers are the “me” generation but in my observation millennials tend to be more self-centered. There are so many young parents who expect their own retired parents to provide unlimited free child care, then turn around and act downright nasty to their parents because the grandparents don’t intuitively know and abide by all of their weird parenting notions. I am young Gen X with some millennial SILs. My husband and I never demanded help from our parents and never dictated how they behaved around our kids except for some safety non-negotiables like car seats and no pillows in the crib. My SILs expect their mom to fly in to watch the kids so they can enjoy multiple kid-free getaways every year, then criticize every aspect of of how their mom treats their kids–even though their mom does a better job with the kids than they do. The way they just walk all over her is gross. She doesn’t like the disrespect but doesn’t want to rock the boat for fear they will reduce her access to the kids.

        1. I think you just know some crappy people. I’m an elder millennial and so are all of my friends and none of us demand free childcare from our parents or criticize their parenting choices when they’re with our kids. My husband and I do enjoy kid free getaways, but the grandparents are happy to provide the childcare and we’re appreciative and grateful.

    10. I will admit that not wanting to deprive my parents of becoming grandparents was a factor in me having a kid (I’m an only child). They never pressured me to have one, but I knew they’d be amazing grandparents and would love the experience and it was hard to feel like I was depriving them of that. It wasn’t the main motivation, but I was really on the fence and it was one of several factors that helped sway me to yes.

      That said, I also have an only child and have zero expectation of us having grandkids. I’m aware that if grandkids were my top priority in life, I should have had three or four kids to greatly increase the odds of that happening. She’s talked about wanting to be a mom since she could talk, and if she continues to want kids I hope it happens for her, but there will be no pressure from me if she decides her best life doesn’t include kids.

    11. One thing I didn’t feel like it touched on is the increasing parental age. Like, one of the stats was about how many people over the age of 55 have grandkids, and how that’s down. But also, there are lots of people who aren’t having kids u tim 30,35, or 40. So grandparents are going to be older (which is a different issue). But as someone without kids whose siblings didn’t have kids (my sister and I are too old, my brother I guess could find a younger woman but seems unlikely) I feel bad for my family in general, even as I don’t think individually any of us should or could have changed. But personal grieving and guilt tripping or lashing out are different. I think it’s fair and understandable to grieve lack of grandchildren. And that’s kinda hard to separate from blaming your kids but some people can. Mostly just don’t talk to your kids about it, talk to your friends or something.

      1. This is a good point about the grandparents ages. My mom was around 55 when I had my first kid. My sister is single and child free by choice, and I think my brother would like kids but probably not with his current girlfriend, whom he can’t seem to break free of. He’s only 36, so still has time. But my parents are now closing in on 70, and noticeably slowing down (although still pretty spry for their age!). My brother’s potential future kids will have a very different grandparent experience than my kids did.

        And then there’s the next older generation…I love that my kids have real memories of their great grandparents (I’m the oldest child of an oldest child), and I have real memories of my great grandmother who died when I was in middle school. My grandma is 95 and lights up when she sees my cousin’s babies (and my kids, who are not as little and cute anymore). But that’s getting more rare

    12. My boomer parents could have featured in this article.

      My mom wanted grandkids. She conveniently forgets telling us since our teens that she found the practice of grandparents providing regular childcare for grands “disgusting.” My dad would never have articulated a similar view but he was and is a man-child. Children exist to serve him, not the other way around.

      I got the memo at 21 that if I had kids, I would have zero help. And now they wonder why no grandchildren.

      1. This is interesting. I have long told my kids that I will split cities between where they live just to help them out with any future kids they may have. I love my kids (had at 38 and 39, so my parents were older grandparents; I will be older still). But I bet I would love even more sweet littles that I can snuggle with and give back when I’m a decade or so older.

        1. +1 my parents moved to my city when we were settled there permanently and our kid was 3. It’s been the most amazing gift, and I plan to do the same thing for my kid if she wants it.

      2. I fail to see why you think you are entitled to help from your parents. You have kids because you want them and want to raise them yourself. If you don’t want kids that’s fine, but don’t blame it on your parents’ refusal to help raise them.

        1. Exactly. This comment is insanely entitled. Have kids or don’t. It’s not your parents’ decision and it’s not your parents’ fault. They’re allowed to feel whatever they feel in response.

        2. Flip side: no one is entitled to grandchildren, and if your parents make it clear that you’re on your own, they should understand the consequences of those choices.

          1. Yup. I don’t think there is anything wrong with grandparents not wanting to do regular childcare. They can choose to spend their retirement however they want. But they need to recognize that lack of family/community support is a big reason many people don’t have kids, and opting out of being part of their adult kids’ “village” increases the odds their kids will stay childfree.

          2. Again, your parents’ willingness to help out should have zero bearing on your decision to have children.

        3. The only families that I see successfully raising kids have at least SOME help from grandparents.

          I won’t go into detail about all the support I have provided to my parents. The fact that they wouldn’t lift a finger to help me, even as I help them all the time in small and big ways, was a factor. They aren’t entitled to grandkids on top of everything else they expect me to do for them.

          1. Grandparent help makes things a lot easier but it’s not true that it’s the only way to successfully raise kids. I don’t think it’s the norm among educated affluent Americans to have grandparent help. I live in a college town, almost everyone moved here from out of state or out of country for jobs and basically no one has local grandparents. We do, because they followed us, and it’s wonderful, but 95% of the people we know don’t have extended family and they manage with a village of friends, neighbors and paid childcare.

        4. don’t they say it takes a village? Is that not universally acknowledged anymore? Grandparents would be the next door neighbor in this metaphorical village!

    13. As an only child, I hope/wish I get a free pass on this front. It’s not my fault I didn’t have siblings, so I shouldn’t have to carry the future of the family by myself. I feel the same about visits home, though. If I had siblings, it would spread the load around.

      1. Yes, pass granted! I know some people have no choice and are one and done by circumstance, but for everyone else, start out in the way you mean to continue. By that I mean, you definitely can’t expect a person will have children, so if you are truly so family oriented that you wish for grandkids, have more children yourself!

        Wanting grandkids is not a primary reason to have kids of course, but it seems all wrapped up in the same value system. If you treasure extended family, wouldn’t you want to have a full(er) house from the start? I love the idea of living life with a whole group of people I helped create and pour into, so we have…way more than one kid. And even still, I know I can’t expect anything.

    14. My husband and I had our first kid when I was 37 and he was 42. The second one came two years later. His dad and my mom died, my dad is living his best life with his new lady friend (whose grandchildren are all grown), and his mom is in her late 70s with health issues that make grandparenting toddlers difficult. Would things have been different if my husband and I met ten years earlier? Probably. But… Can’t do much about that.

    15. I did not like the way the article lumped all of Gen X together with the Boomer generation. Many members of Gen X chose not to have kids (I am one of them), and it is *their* parents (Boomer or silent generation) who are disappointed. The article also reminded me of the thread a couple of weeks ago in which a few people said that one danger of staying with an abusive spouse is that the kids might later decide not to have children because they see so little good in the parent/child relationship.

      1. As a GenXer I find it very odd that Boomers and Gen X would be lumped together. Early boomers are our parents; late boomers are the parents of the millennials. Educated GenXers are not anywhere near the grandparenting stage of life. Most of us didn’t have our first kids until we were around 30, and our kids probably won’t start having kids until they are closer to 40. That is a couple of decades off.

    16. I am secretly rather heartbroken at the thought that I will probably not be a grandmother. But you’d better believe I will never, ever, by word or gesture or sigh or anything, do anything to make my daughter think that she is letting me down, or that it is somehow her job to provide me with grandchildren. She has been quite clear from Day One that she is not inclined to have children, and that is her choice and whatever grieving I do, I do in the deepest darkest reaches of my shriveled up Boomer soul.

      1. SA, you are a good mom, and I think you can claim parent/grandparent status to all the people on this board you have helped over the years.

      2. This is so important. My mother guilts and prods and provokes me all the time about why I don’t have kids. The result is she is driving me away—I call less, visit less, etc and she seems to have no insight into why.

    17. My parents were selfish, emotionally immature, and cruel parents. I actively wanted to avoid passing that on to the next generation and almost didn’t have any kids. They don’t know my one and only child and have only themselves to blame for all of that.

    18. I hope to god my parents, who have zero understanding and empathy about my infertility struggles, don’t see it, or at least don’t send it to me.

    19. The baby boom that created the boomer generation was created by both a lot of government assistance through the GI Bill and forcing women out of the workplace after WWII. We just voted against similar assistance so it’s unlikely we’ll see more babies until adults feel they can afford to have babies.

  10. My mixology skills are Old Fashioneds between Halloween and the Super Bowl, with some seasonal margaritas and sangrias in the warmer months. Apparently last year’s bitters are still OK to use. I have fancy ice cube trays (to use with distilled water for clarity). What else can I do to up my very simple game? Or try to spread my wings a little bit more?

    Also, how sweet do you like your Old Fashioneds? My grand-mere was from Alabama, so I tend to be aggressive with the sugar. But I’ve had all kinds. I do make my own simple syrup (not hard) and sometimes experiment with throwing in “maple” syrup if we have some in excess (would love to try real, but my family insists on fake syrup for waffles, etc.).

    1. Luxardo cherries are mandatory in my book. You can use the extra syrup from the jar instead of plain sugar. I have a variety of bitters: angostura, walnut, cherry, almond, chocolate, etc. They’re certainly good for longer than one year. During fall and winter I change up the garnish and mix-ins. Cinnamon sticks, apple slices, blood orange slices, spiced cider or maple syrup instead of simple syrup…

    2. The sweetness of an Old Fashioned depends on the bourbon, both quality (cheaper bourbons need more sugar) and taste (what you’re trying to balance).

      That said, I like my bourbons to shine in the drinks, so I do a very light bar spoon of simple syrup.

      To that end, try experimenting with different bourbons and different bitters. I would start with chocolate bitters.

      From there, you can branch out into things like fig or blackberry old fashioneds.

    3. Get yourself a little bottle of real maple syrup! Your family can use the corn syrup on their waffles and let you enjoy the good stuff in your drink.

      I don’t like super sweet personally, but if you want to branch out you could try other bourbon-based drinks. Manhattans are my favorite. I prefer them with Elijah Craig bourbon spiced cherries and a good vermouth. Dolin is my current go-to, since it is easy to find locally. One warning – the good ingredients will ruin you for basic ones but you will enjoy the experience so much more.

    4. Make them however sweet you enjoy! Since you asked, I would always want straight bourbon as the base rather than any sweetener added, whether cube, syrup or maple. Might add a tiny bit of syrup with the cherry if the cherries are good quality.

    5. I’m going to go off topic and suggest you add a sidecar to your repertoire. It’s such a good classic drink, and everyone loves them, only three ingredients, you’ll find recipes everywhere. The only thing I would say is I don’t like the sugar on the rim cause I don’t like to get a sticky hand. Delicious.

    1. It’s paywalled and I don’t subscribe, but just based on the headline, doesn’t seem like a surprise to me? I thought it was well known that in much of the country you’re better off connections-wise coming from a top tier local school than a fancy but far away Ivy. I’ve also never thought Ivies offer materially better ROI than other good four year schools, particularly in more “practical” fields like engineering and business. Maybe if you want to be a philosophy professor or something, the Ivy pedigree is important, but if you want to be an engineer, you’ll almost always have a higher ROI going to the best public school in your state. I went to an Ivy but didn’t do it for the ROI.
      This is also why I think people should only go to Ivy League schools if they get a huge scholarship or have family that can pay most of it. It’s a great experience if you can do it debt free, but the return on investment is just not there to take out loans.

      2. Yeah I’m in Los Angeles and honestly the Ivies aren’t that much of a thing here.

        There’s a fancy prep school here called Harvard-Westlake (back in the day it was a boys-only school called simply “Harvard”) that is famously prestigious among certain Angelenos. Funny story: Many years ago, after Susan Estrich was finished as campaign manager for Michael Dukakis’s ill-fated presidential campaign and went back to her job as a Harvard University law professor, she was reportedly visiting Los Angeles and dining with some new acquaintances who, like her, were parents of school-aged children. One of them asked politely, “So, Susan, what do you do?” She modestly replied, “Oh, I teach at Harvard.” Immediately all the conversation around the table stopped, all heads turned towards her, and her interlocutor breathlessly replied, “Really? WHAT GRADE???”

        2. My daughter played club sports and ended up on an amalgamated team with Harvard Westlake. I have never felt so much like a trailer park denizen in my life.

          1. My kid played lacrosse for a season with a team from our very diverse elementary school. The games felt like some kind of Rich People Memo had gone out encouraging the blondest people in LA to enroll their progeny.

        3. Yeah, there’s a woman in my West LA neighborhood who is pretty roundly mocked by everyone because she works her Ivy into every conversation, most of which seem to start out as, “I went to [Ivy], my name is So-and-So.” People are impressed, but not *that* impressed about Ivy degrees. There are plenty of fantastically successful and/or famous people in LA who went to not-Ivies or (gasp!) didn’t even finish college. Personally, I had to get over my preciousness about referring to my alma mater as a “women’s college,” and totally don’t mind when people call it a girls’ school. My 1998 self is furious on behalf of my 2024 self.

          1. well that’s obnoxious. i have two ivy league degrees and purposefully try to leave it out of any conversation i have bc i don’t want people to assume i’m pretentious. and so do most people i know.

          2. It is obnoxious, especially since she seems to do a lot of the name-dropping at really anodyne events like the elementary school’s movie night or a Girl Scout trip – we’re helping second graders make friendship bracelets, no one needs a 30-page paper on Nietzsche right now.

          3. What I find most pretentious is when people say they went to school “in Cambridge” or “in Palo Alto.” False modesty is worse than straight-up bragging.

            And I think I might have been at your college right after you graduated!

        4. there were like 10+ Harvard-Westlake alum in my class alone at my Ivy League undergrad institution, so at least some people in LA seem to want to attend ivies

        5. Eh, I grew up in SoCal and the Ivies were definitely targets for top high school students, along with Cal Tech and Stanford. I had a friend who graduated from Harvard-Westlake and she only applied to East Coast liberal arts schools; she ended up at one that wasn’t an Ivy but was quite similar.

          1. I ain’t sayin’ people out here don’t want to send their kids to Ivies (because competitive parenting is insane and that’s a way to compete, I guess). I am saying that generally, in the legal community at least, an Ivy degree isn’t the holy grail it seems to be in the East.

          2. Interesting. When I was in law school on the east coast a professor told me to transfer to Yale if I ever wanted to teach. So you are saying if I’d gone to law school at a good non-HYS school I could still have taught at a west coast law school?

          3. Absolutely. One of my USC Law classmates is a law school dean in the Midwest (not the same, I know), and several of them have been professors at our alma mater.

          4. Legal academia (academia in general) is the thing where the prestige of the degree matters most. It’s possible but very difficult to break into academia from non-HYS. But law firms and companies don’t care nearly as much, and in many cases a local heavy hitter like USC may be preferable to an Ivy.

    2. I agree with a whole lot of the article as a hiring manager in a highly sought after industry with promises of big comp (niche of finance).

  12. I’ve just moved to Canada and I need help for a winter coat choice – I am found one that ticks a lot of boxes (long, a-line to accommodate my hips, waterproof, warm but not too warm) but I’ve just noticed that the hood only has a small lining, it’s more like a rain coat hood. I’m worried it won’t be enough, especially as it gets very windy around here in the winter, and even with a hat, I worry it won’t provide enough protection, I ted to get cold easily on my head anyway, and always weaar hats.
    Does anyone have any opinion on the matter? thanks!

    1. Upper midwesterner here: I rarely use my hood. I don’t like having my peripheral vision blocked so I wear a thick beanie or earmuffs plus a scarf.

      1. Same here. I don’t even keep the hood on my Eddie Bauer winter coat since it’s detachable and it’s more annoying when it snags/unsnaps itself than it’s worth.

        Last year I got a long Lands End winter coat that the hood is not removable, and I very rarely used it.

      2. This. I hate hoods and won’t buy jackets with big hoods unless they’re removable. Hats and scarfs are much more comfortable.

    2. Beanie/toque under hood always. Also Canada is a big place Vancouver cold is different from Montreal cold.

    3. Hat under your hood and you’ll be fine.

      Where you are matters a lot. Eyelashes freezing together on the walk to law school used to freak me out but BIL hates the east coast damp cold when he visits from Alberta. Windproof and waterproof make a huge difference on the east coast.

      1. right – I’m in newfoundland, so the damp and humid is what I’ve been warned about, but last week the temp already dropped to -13 in ‘feels like’ temp, so I’m a bit worried …

        1. I’m also in Atlantic Canada. I need a real hood. Having fur (faux) around the edge of the hood really helps with windchill. Even the best hats don’t make up for that- the fur and the shape of the hood can really keep most of the wind from touching your face. When it’s -40C with windchill this is really important.

          I’ve used North Face, etc from local sports stores. This year I chose an Eddie Bauer parka. Important to note also- you might need several winter coats. I have a lighter short parka for this time of year and a different jacket for Jan-March temps. I also have dressy/wool coats for different winter temps. Maybe your existing coat will work for ‘light winter’ and you need a heavier coat for the really cold times.

        2. I’m in Newfoundland as well. I have a black waterproof parka that goes to my knees. I had a Lands End one but it was too warm so I went with a thinner Columbia one. Blondo makes great winter books. Sorels for the really yucky/slippery days. And Blundstones are fine for fall/spring. Get snowpants for winter hikes/snowshoeing – there are trails everywhere.

          It’s damp and windy in the winter but it’s moderate. We don’t super cold winters. A hat and your thin hood will be fine. It won’t get really cold or snowy for another month.

          I like to layer a hip length thin puffer vest under my coat if it gets really chilly in January/February. Plenty of people do just fine with a wool coat (especially if it’s hooded).

          1. I’m so pleasantly surprised to see that there are at least 3 NLers who read here regularly enough to chime in on this thread.

            I’ll agree with the comment that a super-heavy parka isn’t necessarily the best all winter long. There are definitely days — like today — where a long raincoat works better. (There’s a reason for the sou’wester stereotype.) I wear a basic L.L. Bean “H2Off” raincoat I got a few years ago; it has a zip-out liner and it’s good, for me, to about 3 degrees C. I hear very good things about the Mernini raincoat and have seen them at Twisted Sisters on Water Street, and that would be on my list if I needed to replace my current raincoat.

    4. Welcome to Canada! I think it might depend on where you are. I’m in Alberta – fairly north – and I have an Eddie Bauer puffer coat, and sometimes will layer hat, hoodie, scarf, then coat hood to get the max insulation.

    5. When I moved to St. John’s from the States about 6 years ago, I bought a Wind River brand hooded parka at Mark’s. I commute by bus or on foot daily (except for Court days, or days when the snow and ice haven’t been cleared enough for safe walking) and this parka has been just fine, even though I tend to get really cold really easily.

      When it’s chilly or RDF, I wear a tweed cloche hat or a tuque under the hood. When it’s extra windy, I’ll wear a spandex dome cap under the tuque.

    6. Northern Montanan here. I wear a hat (RIP stylish hair in winter). When it’s cold and windy, I put on a windproof liner (actually the helmet liner I wear for cool weather cycling) on under a knit beanie. The hood doesn’t come up until it’s well below 0F, and that’s mostly because the fuzzy edge of the hood really does make a difference in how the wind feels on my face.

    7. Montrealer here. Where in Canada, and what is your budget? I have a Kanuk and a Mackage (both purchased on sale) and they have drastically increased how much I enjoy being outside in the cold. But you can also definitely get by with a regular parka and layers on most days unless you live way up North/spend a ton of time outside. I personally use my hood a lot (and also wear a hat underneath). It keeps the snow/sleet out of your neck. I thought the fur was just for show but it actually really helps keep the snow out of your face (I have faux fur, works just as well).

    8. very cold midwest state — I like a jacket that zips up higher (like, to the mouth) – that makes the hood ‘tight’ enough to actually stay on in wind – but honestly the puffy hoods feel more aesthetic than actual warmth benefit.

    9. So I use a hat for warmth (Midwesterner). But I do use hoods to keep my hair dry if it’s more rainy than snowy. So I do like to have a deep hood I can actually pull over my hat.

    10. Welcome to Canada! I’ll go against the grain and say I hate wearing hats and much prefer being able to pop my hood up and down as needed. I had a Canada Goose parka with a fur ruff on the hood and it was seriously amazing. It did such a good job protecting my face from the cold and wind. So I would look for a coat with a good hood.

      Just FYI, I probably have four coats that I qualify as “winter coats.” Depending on where you are, the weather can be so variable and it’s good to be prepared for all conditions, so you’ll probably need more than one winter coat. I have an insulated rain coat, a light parka, a heavy full-length parka, and a wool coat for warmer days. Also make sure there’s room under your coat for layering.

  13. Does anyone struggle with having a person in their life who has attitudes about food that make you uncomfortable? My mil is obsessed with “healthy” food in a way that makes me feel uncomfortable. Specifically, when someone is vegan or gluten free she absolutely delights demonizing the foods they avoid. She’s pressuring me to make my house gluten free because of my sons occasional eczema even though his doctor has told me many times not to do that. I honestly feel like this is more harmful than helpful and I’m sick of defending our food choices and I’m getting the feeling she just delights in the idea of restricting other people’s food. Is that even a thing? We’re all at healthy bmis but I still feel like she’s judging our bodies and our food. She’s really kind and appreciative of how I accommodate her restrictions when she’s here so I feel kind of hurt that she’s always looking to control what we eat.

    1. Yes, this is a thing. My mother and my SIL do this, and it’s horrible. They get VERY emotional about food, think it’s normal to be emotional about food, and think that I am “wrong” for not being emotional about food.

    2. I feel like every woman knows someone, often another woman, like this. I’m Gen C but it has always struck me as just another flavor of disordered eating.

    3. This is absolutely a thing, and for your child’s well-being and your own, you need to shut that down hard and fast. I had to do it with my mother and shockingly, she stopped.

    4. My least favorite is the category of people who disguise disordered eating under a “challenge” and then won’t stfu about it ever. I know someone who has temporarily eliminated gluten at least 20 times “to see if it negatively affects me.” Like all diets, every attempt to be permanently strict fails, and like most dieters, she can’t help discussing it in great detail at any opportunity.

      1. I think some people just don’t stick to the diet until they know for sure they really have Celiac. But the majority of people who have it were never properly tested for it. If someone has it, there is no alternative to permanently following the diet and it’s far more disordered not to! It’s the talking about it too much that makes me sometimes wonder if someone is in a state of diagnostic limbo that their mind can’t let go of.

    5. Most people who are vocal about their restrictive diets are that way because they are smug about their perceived self-discipline.

    6. I am fascinated always by mom and MIL food choices and how they affect those around them. And I’m sure it’s totally a thing. My MIL absolutely uses food as a way to control those around here. It’s her little area of fiefdom.

    7. This is my mom. Now that my oldest is 6.5 years old, I’m VERY vocal about it in all settings – in my house and in hers. “Nana, food is not good or bad.” “All food is ok.” “We listen to our bellies” or whatever the line du’jour is that I have to use. From time to time I get really firm with her to the side (and once or twice in front of the kids tbh) and give her my best teacher glare and say “STOP.” I also have to do the same kind of thing about talking about bodies. “We don’t talk about people’s bodies.” repeat. repeat. repeat. For the most part she picks up on what I’m doing and stops talking in that moment, but she’ll start right back up again 3 minutes later. I just tirelessly repeat myself to protect my daughter above all else because she deserves so much better than I had growing up on this front.

      1. The commenting on people’s bodies really is a boomer thing, and I’m enforcing the same boundaries with my mom specifically.
        She will comment on my “nice slim figure” and devalue her own body with comments (to my kid) like “oh, look at your grandma’s fat belly”. It is sad.

    8. I have a friend who for 20 years has told me how many grams of carbs there are in every single thing that goes into her mouth and mine. I don’t go out to dinner with her anymore.

      1. Why on earth would she share this! Even people who are dosing insulin don’t announce this to everyone.

        1. She has an eating disorder, which is obvious to her kids and pretty much everyone who knows her.

    9. I’m someone undergoing a medically necessary low sodium diet right now. Let me just tell you it sucks. I’m a cook and love food but it’s really hard to enjoy it anywhere close to as much without salt. Salt really is a magical ingredient.

      Don’t worry. I’m not going to ruin anyone’s meal. I can’t eat anything at a restaurant anyway, and wouldn’t want to serve anyone the food I’m currently making for myself. I’m sad about it though.

      1. Ugh… it is really true that salt is such a simple and amazing ingredient. This hurts even more when you are a cook and love food.

        I hope that in the future your restrictions will change. But it is also true that your palate will also adjust some over time. But I find it is harder for a food lover to adjust to lower salt than cutting out sugar!

    10. My MIL and both of my sils have extremely disordered eating/body image. It’s really hard to navigate. Amazingly, I have a whole host of sisters — grew up in a female dominated household — and none of us have issues with food/diet/etc. My dh has a lot of old-fashioned/out of fashion ideas about nutrition from being raised by his mother, but at least around our children subscribes to a everything in moderation lifestyle.

    11. My husband is very happy if the food he makes is appreciated, which I understand, but also means he regularly comments on how much of it I eat. I have tried to explain to him many times that I do not ever want any comments about how much food I’m eating or not eating and it doesn’t have anything to do with how much I appreciate him, but he doesn’t get it.

    12. My mom and her sister were all about fat-shaming and diet talk in the 1980s and 1990s, but my sister and I have pretty firmly shut that down over time. My mom isn’t the most self-aware person I’ve ever met, but she does realize that she had disordered eating patterns as a young woman and obsessing aloud about the calories in coffee creamer isn’t going to help my ballet-dancing, size 6 teenager have a health relationship with food.

      My MIL is another story. She is elderly, rail-thin, and has obvious eating issues – preparing huge amounts of food but not eating any, talking about how “bad” this or that food is for you, pushing others to eat constantly, etc. I tense up the second we get to their house because of how she acts around food and I have to debrief my kids after most holiday meals. I hate it.

      1. I am interested in why people are so bothered by old people’s weird comments. When I was a kid it was just understood that Uncle Ken was an odd old bird and would say weird stuff, and that Granny would try to get everyone to have seconds. No one thought anything of it or required debriefing. I suppose we kids were being taught a “good for them, not for me” attitude? There is just so much more angst about it these days.

        1. I’m the op and it’s hard. She’s not just asking me to eat seconds. She’s suggesting that the food we eat is dangerous and hurting us. She’s also not a one off uncle but an important part of the kids lives. It’s hard to stand up and say that your normal healthy body is good enough when you know she thinks you could be thinner and that it would be better if you gave up more food, had more restrictions, and spent more time rearranging your life around those restrictions. I feel like even if I did what she said there would always be more foods to give up, healthier things to pick,ect. There’s never going to be a day when our bodies are good enough for her to just be quiet. I dont want to get emotional but it’s a pretty damning criticism when someone thinks you should start restricting food.

        2. Yeah, my angst comes from being hospitalized with an eating disorder during law school, after years of body and food shaming at home. That was absolutely not going to happen to my daughters, so I made it clear to my mother and MIL that shutting up was a condition of seeing their grandchildren.

        3. My mom and I have agreed on a food talk detente, but we went through a difficult period on this topic before we made it here and the answer is: because it’s not a random old person, it’s my mother. I can easily laugh off random stuff old people say, too; it’s a lot more difficult when it’s someone who you love and respect a lot and also who installed all those buttons that they’re pushing.

  14. What foods are good to serve at a 4 hour drop-in party? 1-5pm, adults only – I’m thinking just appetizers is fine, but am having trouble figuring out what would be ok to be left out for that whole time. It’s a housewarming party/open house – people will be in and out. Thanks!

    1. This sounds like food poisoning waiting to happen. No dairy whatsoever. Crackers and chips of course should be fine. And I would suggest clearing everything and starting fresh about every 1.5 hours.

      3. Ha. I am much looser about food safety than some people on this board, but this is way over the top and unnecessary…

        1. Same. I don’t understand how some people here function. I eat everything that people here are horrified by and I never get sick. This is ridiculously over the top.

      4. LOL you don’t want to know how I thaw meat (leave it out on the counter for 4-5 hours until thawed). I have a PhD in microbiology and this does not concern me.

    2. I think unless someone is really limited on diet due being immunocompromised (pregnant, chemo patient), food sitting out should totally be fine for that length of time

      1. Yeah, as someone who is immunocompromised, I can’t imagine attending a party where the host whisks away perishables at precisely the moment the FDA says it’s not safe. I’ve literally never seen anyone follow the guidelines to the letter and I’ve never gotten food poisoning from a party.

        1. The food gets icky sooner than it becomes unsafe. After about an hour or so a crudite platter or dip or even cheese is going to be pretty tired, so it makes sense not to leave things out too long.

          2. I’m not replacing cheese and veggies every hour for a gathering in my home. I don’t think fancy venues do that either. What do you do with the food you take away because it looks “tired” – are you throwing out all that food??

          3. You don’t throw the food out. You put less out to begin with and then replenish when it runs out.

    3. Spiral cut ham & rolls for DIY sandwiches, any kind of sandwich really. Also consider hiring someone from Taskrabbit to heat up Trader Joe’s apps and pass them around.

    4. You can get platters that have a compartment for ice underneath (or Frontgate sells fancy bowls that you freeze and they keep food cold for hours). We use those to put out cocktail shrimp but you could also use them for salsa, guac, fruit, etc.

      Personally I think cheese boards are ok for 4 hours, especially hard cheeses, olives, things like that. Not sure about meat.

      You can also get a mini crockpot that will stay warm and you can have something like buffalo dip or chili in it.

      Lastly, why not keep a few backup things in the fridge that you can swap out halfway through the party? E.g. guac, salsa, cheese, veggie/ranch plate?

    5. Get multiple small platters of perishables so they get used up within an hour or so, then replenish.

      For non-perishables, people love homemade Chex Mix, Parmesan truffle popcorn, spiced nuts, and little cookies that can be eaten in one or two bites.

      1. Big fan of this one. Just have smaller portions set out, things get eaten before you approach gross/potentially unhealthy. You could hire someone to manage the table if you don’t want to, but I’m also from a culture where a note on the table that says “if we’re out of guac, go grab another container from the fridge 🙂” would be appropriate, and no one would mind helping out.

    6. There isn’t much that’s both safe to eat and appetizing for four hours. You don’t need to be immunocompromised to get a bar stomachache. Start with a charcuterie board, hummus with pita and vegetables, spiced nuts, and baked goods. Maybe a crockpot of meatballs too. Clear out everything but the nuts, veggies, and pita after 2.5 hours. Set out a new serving of dips at that point. Every 40 minutes or so add a new hot item that’s assembled in advance. Frozen spinach and artichoke dip that goes in the microwave, mini phyllo cups with brie and craisins or nuts in the toaster oven, flatbread on a premade crust in the oven, etc. Something you can grab from the fridge and toss in the oven.

    7. I think all food needs to be refreshed once during the party (around 3 pm), irrespective of food safety. Old picked-over platters of food aren’t visually attractive and have a bit of an ick factor. Think of the platter of bagels and danishes left in the office kitchen – by late afternoon nobody is tempted, right? It’s the same idea.

    8. I’ve been throwing drop-in parties for 20 years. The answer is very simple: Only put out a reasonable amount that could be eaten with the crowd you have; keep “seconds” in the fridge and refill every 45-90 mins as needed (it helps to hire a helper so you can socialize while they keep track of all this).

    9. I agree that I don’t think it matters that much – the cheese will probably need a refresh halfway through the party. If you’re really worried about it you can stick some flat ice blocks beneath your cold items, use a small crockpot for dips to keep them consistently warm, or I’ve even seen warming mats on Amazon but haven’t bought.

      https://www.amazon.com/Silicone-Warming-Electric-Temperature-Occasions/dp/B0D7ZRLHH2/

      Seedling heat mats are even cheaper and might be just as good, not sure.

    10. I would clear out the first round at 3 pm and bring out a second round. New cheeses, new hummus, new sliced meats, fresh apps from the oven (can be Trader Joe’s that you just heated up).

  15. Would like to hire someone to help with our annual holiday party. I think I’d basically just want them to refill drinks, make sure the eating stations are clean/refilled (maybe take stuff out of the oven?), empty the trash or recycling as needed, and keep the house generally tidy so that at the end of the night we don’t have a huge clean up. Where would you look to hire such a person?

    2. I did this a couple times with some friends when I was in my early 20s, and we were also “bartenders” to prevent a traffic jam by the drinks. It was easy and fun and we made a couple hundred$.

      Basically, the hosts knew one friend because she worked at their golf course, or had babysat their kids, or whatever, and asked if she could bring a friend or two to help out. If you don’t know any young 20-somethings, Task Rabbit.

    3. In my area, there are a people who do this kind of thing who call themselves some variety of “personal concierge.” I’ve seen them recommended a lot on local FB groups, but they’re googleable as well.

    4. Neighborhood listserv if you have one. If you don’t need them to refill alcoholic drinks, a highschooler would probably jump at this

    5. What area are you in? Most major cities will have plenty of catering/food service firms. I prefer hiring pros vs. task rabbit if they’re going to be in my home but that’s just me.

      1. Except it’s probably the very same people. The “pros” are moonlighting on TaskRabbit.

      2. except they’re going to charge you five to ten thousand dollars, plus “catering”, “set up” and “misc” fees (this is not a joke, I got a catering invoice last year with a $730 line item for “misc”) to do what 3 college kids would do perfectly well for $300 each.

    6. I’ve posted in my neighborhood FB group and hired teens or community college students to help with this.

    7. I used to do this for my babysitting families. My parents were good at entertaining, and I knew just what to do! If you have a babysitter, start there, if you think they’re independent enough to just—do all the entertaining stuff!

  16. I don’t choose vendors because of holiday gifts but I have to say, I appreciate the effort when they send them. I work for a non-profit, and we hardly get any “perks”, so it’s nice to be able to put that box of chocolates or Harry and David goods in the break room and let all the staff enjoy. I certainly don’t expect it, but sometimes we are paying more than $600 an hour for outside counsel, so I also don’t think it’s going to break their bank to send something once a year! No wine though. That’s hard to share!

    1. No experience with vendor gifts, but when I had a second job in a tutoring center as a young adult it used to make me so mad that the parents would bring in platters of holiday treats and the front office staff, who never interacted with the kids, would keep them for themselves instead of putting them out for the tutors.

  17. Help me plan a 4-day mother-daughter weekend trip in January. Would like to be not too far from a major airport. We will be shopping, spa-ing and eating. Flying from the Midwest if that matters.

    2. In my family this would be Vegas, despite nobody in my family being into gambling. Flights are usually cheap, it has great spas, food and shopping, and while not “warm” it will also not be under six feet of snow. Just be sure you avoid

      San Diego would work but is a really long flight for you.

      And there are great spas in Arizona but I do not love the cities where the major airports are.

      1. Look into Terranea in Palos Verdes. Relatively close to LAX, heavenly pretty.

        1. Gah what I typed was: Also, if you have big bucks to spend, look at Montecito or the Ojai Valley Inn.

    7. I second Miraval , although airport access isn’t great. It’s about an hour from the Tucson airport and you can probably only reach Tucson on a direct flight if your home airport is ORD or MSP.

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