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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Phoebe Jersey Dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. This dress strikes me as a thinner material than everyone's beloved Lands' End ponte dresses — but I like that this one has sleeves and pockets, comes in a ton of fun prints (as well as basic black and navy), and, of course, is machine washable. (It actually reminds me of a Merona dress from a thousand years ago that I bought because readers raved about it, and it was surprisingly flattering on me.) This purplish dress is called “navy spotty buttercup” and comes in petite, regular, and long sizes 2-18; it's $90 at Boden. Phoebe Jersey Dress Looking for something similar in plus sizes? This flouncy dress has a similar pattern. This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 12.13

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals on skincare including Charlotte Tilbury, Living Proof, Dyson, Shark Pro, and gift sets!
  • Ann Taylor – 50% off everything, including new arrivals (order via standard shipping for 12/23 expected delivery)
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50-70% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Eloquii – 400+ styles starting at $19
  • J.Crew – Up to 60% off almost everything + free shipping (12/13 only)
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off everything and free shipping, no minimum
  • Macy's – $30 off every $150 beauty purchase on top brands
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off, plus free shipping on everything (and 20% off your first order)
  • Talbots – 50% off entire purchase, and free shipping on $99+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

281 Comments

  1. Has anyone heard of Antonia Saint NY? My coworker just shared the website with me.
    I have problem feet (wide, plantar fasciitis), so these seem like an ideal solution. But they’re also really pricey for my budget so just wondering if anyone has tried and has an opinion, either good or bad?

    2. Whoa, I’m intrigued! I have problem feet (sounding similar to what you described) and the flats look great. Wish there was a lower heeled option, though, I never wear heels that high.

    3. I participated in the initial Kickstarter. To put it bluntly, the shoes were TERRIBLE. I ended up throwing them away.
      The idea is great, and the insoles were nicely designed. However, despite the promise of custom fit, and the whole process of measuring and photographing feet through the app, they did not fit at all. I have wide feet too and they pinched so much in the toes. I could only wear them for about 15 minutes before my feet went numb. They were also really, really thick and it was most noticable on the seams on the inside of the feet. I felt like my feet had grown about 3 sizes.
      I’m supposed to be getting replacement shoes as they are currently re-tooling. I’ll report back if they are improved.

      1. Sorry, I should also mention that I ordered the flats too, and they are about 2 years behind the initial delivery schedule, I think. They are working on the heels first. I wouldn’t put a deposit on any of their shoes until the problems are sorted, but especially not the flats.

        Very sad – I really, really wanted to love these shoes.

          1. I hope so too! I bought three pairs on Kickstarter, so it was an expensive mistake (so far)!!!

  2. Where can I purchase quarters with a credit card? Looking for a physical store, not an online service. Thanks in advance!

      1. It’s great that this method works for you. Some people are in rural areas (or use online banks) and don’t have this as a viable or timely option.

        1. You can go into any bank with a $20 and get quarters back. Are you really that rural?

        3. Rural areas still have banks, right? If you have cash, any bank (and most stores) will do the exchange. It’s the credit card that’s making this hard. So if you can get cash (ATM?) the part about change isn’t hard.

          1. Not necessarily anywhere nearby. Just like there might not be grocery stores, pharmacies, health care providers,…

            Signed,
            Works with low income individuals in a primarily rural state

          2. To Anonymous at 10:06, if OP is looking for a place that allows purchasing quarters with credit cards, there is a place where you can get $20 from an ATM, and ask for all quarters or make some small purchase and get the quarters that way. Signed, my entire family lives in RURAL Alabama.

          3. @anonymous 10:06- If the OP is in a place like you describe- particularly if she’s low income- she is a fool for asking for tips on this site. She should use her words at whatever physical options exist near her and not look for vague advice from the internet.

            For some reason, the OP’s question struck a nerve with me. If it’s a real question, how does this person function in the world? And clearly he/she should avoid whatever situation it is that requires quarters.

          4. Well, yes. It might take an hour to get to any of those places. But I would assume if you need quarters for something that urgently, there is a nearby mechanism for obtaining those quarters.

            AKA, If there’s nowhere to get quarters, then what are the quarters for?

      2. I didn’t think this was a thing either because isn’t it pretty much like asking for a cash advance on a credit card? I’ve always gone to the grocery store with a $20 bill and gotten quarters that way.

        1. Yes, it would be a cash advance on OP’s credit card, which means unpleasantly high fees/interest (typically).

    2. If you get desperate, most laundromats have change machines, so get some $20s from the ATM and exchange.

    3. Not sure if this is practical but you could use a debit card (not a credit card) and get cash back from any store that does it in all quarters. Or a bank by sounds like that’s not feasible?

    5. I guess it depends on how many quarters you need. When I need quarters for parking, I just buy a coffee or a pack of gum with cash and ask for change in as many quarters as they can give me. Pretty much any pharmacy/grocery store/ coffee shop should be cool with this (of course their register might not have that many quarters so ymmv).

    6. Do you have a debit card? Can you go buy a pack of gum at Target and get cash back and either exchange for quarters or just get your cash back in quarters?

    7. My credit card does not allow purchase of lottery tickets or currency as a security measure. The only way to get cash on my card is through a cash advance – which would be at a ridiculous interest rate.

    8. Thanks to those who provided sincere responses! I know it’s easy to judge people on a few short sentences, but there’s almost always a larger context around online posts. I had a good laugh about being a fool and being unable to function in this world. To that poster – I genuinely hope all is well for you. I won’t be calling you names on here, nor will I in real life.

  3. Heads-up for folks looking for affordable suiting for summer workdays: I recently bought some suit separates from JCPenney, of all places, and I was really pleased at how the pieces were constructed and how nice they look. Links are below, but it’s the Liz Claiborne Classic Fit Ankle Pant and the Liz Claiborne Double Cotton Blazer that go together. The blazer is lined, the pants are not. The pants and the shell on the jacket are made from 98% cotton and 2% spandex. I am a cusp size (16w) and ordered the women’s XL and both pieces fit well. They are machine washable also! They have a fun pink (called Clear Pink) in both the blazer and the pants that I ordered because I wanted to try the pink-suit trend, but I also got the jacket and pants in white and then in a small pattern called “Black and White Geo,” which I’m not sure I’ll wear together, but each piece will work well with black separates I already have. They also have a skirt in the “Double Cotton” line for those who like to wear skirts. I hadn’t bought clothes from Penney’s in forever (I mean, not since I was a kid and that’s where my mom took us to shop for school clothes) but I was very pleasantly surprised by what I got. I wanted to get a pink suit and a white suit for spring/summer, but didn’t want to spend too much as I am not 100% sure how often I’ll wear them. The pieces were well worth it, especially because Penney’s always has coupons active.

    https://www.jcpenney.com/p/liz-claiborne-womens-classic-fit-ankle-pant/ppr5007851515?pTmplType=regular&catId=SearchResults&searchTerm=liz+claiborne+ankle+pant&productGridView=medium&urlState=brand%3Dliz%2Bclaiborne&badge=onlyatjcp

    https://www.jcpenney.com/p/liz-claiborne-double-cotton-blazer/ppr5007632683?pTmplType=regular&catId=SearchResults&searchTerm=liz+claiborne+cotton+blazer&productGridView=medium&urlState=brand%3Dliz%2Bclaiborne&badge=onlyatjcp

    https://www.jcpenney.com/p/liz-claiborne-double-cotton-pencil-skirt/ppr5007632691?pTmplType=regular&catId=SearchResults&searchTerm=double+cotton+skirt&productGridView=medium&badge=onlyatjcp

    1. I just bought 2 of the skirts and 1 pair of pants. Thanks for sharing, I hope they work out as well for me as they have for you!

    2. Thank you for sharing! I hit a lucky streak with JCP a few summers ago and this is a good reminder to look again.

    3. I’ve been on the search for a white blazer. Giving this a try. Thanks for sharing.

    4. I love it. Can you comment on size? I seem to remember that JCP runs large. I am usually a 4 in Boden and such, small up top, wondering if I should get an XS or an S?

      1. It ran TTS for me based on my measurements vs. the size chart, but if you are a 4 at Boden I would order a 0 or 2 at JCP. The JCP size charts should give you more guidance.

    5. I love suiting options from JCPenny! I was however a little remiss to realize that these pieces are actually ‘missy’ sizes not plus and only go to a size 20. I am a size 24 so this option does not work for me.

  4. I have this dress in a bright watermelon pink, and it is really cute. If you’re between sizes, definitely size down, though.

  5. Tell me how couples with kids deal with time for hobbies. My husband has a hobby that takes approximately 6 hours and he likes to do it every weekend. It’s been a source of tension throughout our relationship but especially now that we have kids (8 months and 3) He also works long hours and will often have to work on the weekends, miss dinner, etc. We moved to my home city recently and he doesn’t have many friends so this hobby is the only thing he does outside of family and work. I want him to be happy but at the same time I also really resent sometimes that this hobby takes up so much weekend time. It feels like between his work schedule and this hobby there isn’t much time for family or chores errands etc that have to get done on weekends. I also feel like the three year old could benefit from more attention from him but he doesn’t feel that way. It doesn’t seem like he’s going to give up the hobby and I wouldn’t want him to really so I guess I’m just looking for ideas on how not to resent him for doing it.

    1. Well, you’re right to be resentful. Six hours, every weekend? Bro, no, not when you have tiny kids. He can pick a weekend or two a month, but every weekend is ridiculous and a total intrusion on family time. Not to mention you’re left doing all the childcare and housework.

      The only way this becomes remotely fair, is if he’s giving you the same amount of hobby time or alone time … which isn’t realistic for this stage in life.

      1. Agreed. And yes it would be more “fair” if you got equal time to do your own thing for 6 hours a week but seems impractical given you have kids and also a job of your own.

      2. Wowwww. I would be super resentful too. I have 2 kids around theses ages. All hobbies are on hold. For both of us. Period.

        We have both accepted that this is just how it will be for this stage of life. Call it delayed gratification if you will.

        If my husband wants 6 hrs for a hobby every week, he can take a day off work.

        1. Yikes. Obviously YMMV, but that doesn’t sound workable for people with hobbies that they really love and are committed to. Where’s the middle ground? OP, I think you and your husband can find a better solution that gives him the joy of his hobby, but that gives you some much-needed time to yourself as well as family time for all of you.

          1. Bwahahahaha—you must not have children. Men with children who spend 6 hours golfing every weekend do not also have wives who work full-time.

          2. There are plenty of women with FT jobs, husbands, and time-intensive hobbies. Sure, it’s hard to keep them up when young kids are in the picture, but it’s also hard to give up your own interests completely (and unnecessary in most cases). There is certainly room for compromise.

    2. Is there a way to break up the hobby, so it was only 2-3 hours at a time? I would be ok with my husband doing a hobby on Saturday morning when I was with the kids if it meant that I got to sleep in on Sunday when he was with the kids.

      If not, then I would suggest that he only do the hobby every 2-3 weeks. But it sounds like this may be a bigger problem of you feeling like you do all the home work. Have you split up chores? Does he know how much you do around the house?

      1. +1 – splitting weekend mornings has been key to reducing weekend bickering of ‘who gets more time’ in our household. I do Saturdays and he does Sundays from say 8-11, or 8-noon. I will also assign errands or explicitly tell my husband we’re doing them together in the afternoon as a team to avoid one us us (TBH, me) doing all the chores during my time ‘on’ and him doing a fun morning activity or trip somewhere during his time on.
        That being said, a 6 hour hobby PLUS late hours at work is not feasible or sustainable for you OR his relationship with the kids. He doesn’t get to check out when they’re young and not as fun, that is in no way fair to you.

          1. It can though. You play 9 holes. Also if you play ready golf 18 holes should not be taking 6 hours.

          2. I’m picturing a long board game, or tabletop RPG, or something along the lines of Dungeons & Dragons that’s done in a long session, where you can take a break when the pizza comes but that’s about it. My boyfriend plays Twilight Imperium which can take 8+ hours, but he doesn’t go every weekend. I appreciate having the place to myself for a Saturday here and there, but if we had kids, that’d mean being on “kid duty” for an entire Saturday while he gets to play with the guys, and if that was the case every Saturday I’d be pretty pissed about it.

          3. But a 9-hole golf game is a thing and doesn’t take 6 hours. Heck, even an 18-hole game shouldn’t take 6 hours.

          4. Live in SEC country and this sounds like some of my colleague’s husbands who hunt. None of us have kids yet and this is definitely a consideration for my SO and me, we have time-intensive hobbies, including one with our dog. We can’t imagine doing that + having a child.

    3. Is the hobby one that he could include the three year old in occasionally, even if it slows him down?

      If it’s golf, he could ride along in the cart, if it’s fishing he could go in the boat, if it’s biking he could ride in the trailer . . .

      1. Except doubtless part of why the hobby is enjoyable is the time away from the young kids.

    4. I think that parenting requires a lot of sacrifice, and he may just have to come to terms that he can’t do this hobby and parent a baby and toddler. I would hazard to guess that you are giving up a lot to ensure the well being of your children, and your husband (or anybody else) isn’t worried that you resent it. I know it’s harsh, but he has to give it up for now. It’s just the way it works when you are parenting very young children. You give up a lot.

      1. I think this is really helpful! Someone once told me to think of work/life balance in terms of my whole life and not merely my day-to-day. Working a lot in my twenties might mean a more fulfilling and comfortable retirement later, for instance. I think parenting is pretty much the same. Little bitty people are a huge time suck. But putting in good time with small kids helps them grow into independent young adults and, more to the point for this hobbyist dad, eight year olds who are really into spending time learning more about your hobby and developing their own skills. Giving up time doing what you love now can buy you more of it in the future.

    5. Yeah, this is not okay. My husband and I both work reasonable hours and a 6 hour weekend hobby would be a no go for us. My husband sings in a choir which practices 1 weeknight and has a performance once a month or so. I go to yoga one night a week (the night I work late) and once at the weekend. That feels manageable for us at this stage in life.

    6. My husband is a Man of Many Time Consuming and Expensive Hobbies. We have 3 kids under 6.

      He either does a hobby with 1-2 of the kids, preschedules WAY in advance the offers me free time in return, or doesn’t do anything.

      Over the years he’s had to modify his interests somewhat to be more family-friendly. But as the kids get older he’s starting to include them. For example, he does woodwork. My oldest helps design projects and has her own safety glasses and can do things like paint and glue a birdhouse that DH cuts out.

      When he does beer brewing, which is not kid friendly, we plan for it and do something like invite another family over. Other mom and I drink wine and watch the kids with the 2 dads spend an afternoon brewing beer.

      He takes the kids out to fly his drone- in fact he bought them their own kid one too. They all have viewing glasses and it’s pretty adorable.

      When we want to get gym time in, we have a gym with childcare. So he’ll take all 3 kids to the gym, drop them at the kid center, and work out. Or all 5 of us go.

      2. This is pretty similar to what we do. As the kids get older, we’ve been able to involve them more in our hobbies. Eg. boardgaming/ tabletop gaming: instead of 6-hour sessions for a yearlong campaign, we organise family-friendly boardgame potlucks with other families; parents will take turns alternately watching the kids and gaming. The 3-5yo set can start playing some kid boardgames under the supervision of 1-2 parents.

    7. Why? That’s basically a full day he’s not with you and his children. His hobby matters more than that? Don’t get over this, fight for what your kids need. He can’t do this every other weekend even? Nonsense.

    8. 6 hours every weekend? Yeah, no. My husband is a cyclist and has a couple of other hobbies but we had a conversation after our son was born that family time comes first, period. And we only have one kid. My husband still rides every weekend but doesn’t do nearly the mileage he used to before we had our kid, and he generally gets up early so he’s done with his ride about the time we’re waking up on Saturday (it helps that our kid is older now and sleeps in till 8 or 9). He will periodically do longer rides that take up most of the day, but those aren’t frequent – maybe once a month or once every other month.
      6 hours on a weekend day, every weekend, is a ton of time. I don’t know about other families, but our weekends are generally jam-packed between stuff we want to do and stuff we have to do (like errands and chores). If one of us was like, peace out, I’m off to do my all-day hobby *every* weekend, that would put a huge burden on the other person. I realize hobbies are important to manage stress, but expecting the household to revolve around his hobby is selfish and immature. This is one of those areas where there may be a compromise on time spent, but there can’t be a compromise on priorities – family time and necessary chores to keep the family running have to come first. I see a crucial conversation in your future, where he will need to hear the message of: you are not a single guy any more and your time is not wholly your own, and will not be again until the kids are older (at least). He needs to make adjustments.

    9. My husband and I dealt with this, when our kids were about the same ages. It caused a lot of tension. I will say, generally, it seems that men are a lot more comfortable having lots of time away from their small children than we as women are. I also now generally realize that the source of the tension surrounding my husband doing things outside the home is my attitude toward it — if I’m fine with it, and he’s fine with it, all of the relevant decision-makers are fine with it, so there’s no problem. I think it really just helps to understand that for men, being outside the home doesn’t mean they love their family any less or don’t value them. I think it’s a very male thing to want to be out in the world, rather than feeling “trapped” at home. Men can feel trapped if they are nagged into staying home and don’t feel like it is their choice.

      I’m not saying you’re anywhere near this, but I sometimes like to step back and look at the big picture: yes, it’s annoying not to have husband with the family every Saturday morning, and if he is WILLING to cut back to half as many weekends, great. But your kids would see him even less if you are divorced: keeping both partners happy and your marriage healthy is the top priority. Eyes on the prize.

      As a final thought, I have come to the conclusion that, for working moms, working is our hobby, in the view of society. It’s an ugly truth, but that’s how the world sees it, that work time is my discretionary time, away from kids and home responsibilities, which otherwise tend to fall on the woman.

      I’ll leave you with the final thought that two kids three and under is SO HARD. It will never be harder than this, really, it will get better. Weather this storm, nothing is forever, things change. So, you can have a big battle with your husband about it now, or you can ride it out for another four or six months, and see if things naturally evolve to him spending less time on this hobby. That’s what happened with us, we moved and my husband got busier with work commitments, and HE decided that it made sense to step back from his hobby–no ultimatum from me needed (which wouldn’t have worked anyway). Don’t think of it as, can I stand him spending this much time on this hobby for the next 15 years. Things with kids change constantly. You’re in the trenches now, with a new baby and recently jumping from 1 to 2. See how things play out and if in 4-6 months you haven’t found a better balance, maybe revisit it at that point.

      Also, if you’re in your hometown (which is causing him to have to lean on his hobby more because he might feel lonely and friendless btw), take advantage of whatever resources you moved there for — while DH is at his hobby, visit with your parents, siblings, childhood friends, whoever is around. Your husband may even bet expecting that, like, hey we moved to City so that Wife could be close to friends and family — can’t she lean on those people while I take just a few hours a week to myself? And he’s got a point–try that, see if it helps.

      3. My eyes just about popped out of my head at this. Sure, the husband may be happy doing his hobby and never being “nagged” or bothered about his responsibilities as an adult and parent, but this is a fast track to her resentment and anger growing to an irreparable degree and everyone loses. OP, you have a problem now, talk to your husband now.

      4. I say this as a very, very conservative person: did a time machine drop you off from 1870?

        I cannot even comprehend this. Women who work do not have jobs as hobbies; we provide a lot of (sometimes the majority of) household income. If the marriage matters to us, it should matter to our husbands enough to sacrifice. Women feel trapped at home when their husbands galavant around and leave them with screaming kids and poopy diapers.

        That’s nice that this works for you, but it does not work for a LOT of women.

        1. I do realize that my post comes off very retro/gender-norm-heavy by the standards of this board, but I did want to offer my honest thoughts to OP in case it is helpful to her and it would work for her too. She has plenty of other people telling her, “That’s crazy, you need to tell him to cut back!” I just want to let her know if that if she decides not to fight this battle, there may be good reasons for her not to do so and that it’s not wrong for her to “let” her husband have his hobby, even if it annoys and frustrates her sometimes.

      5. So basically you’re telling her to shut up and not advocate for herself or her family. And put a smile on her face and BE GRATEFUL. Geez, I expect this crap from the rest of the internet, but not this board.

        1. Not at all. I’m giving her a perspective to consider. If, all things considered, she can’t live with things going on the way they are, even for a few more months to see how they play out, she can certainly take the advice of others on this board and demand that her husband cut back his hobby. OP asked us to “Tell [her]” how our families handle this issue. I did.

      6. What?! No work is not a hobby. Dads are parents too. Being a parent means you have to sacrifice. That sacrifice isn’t limited to moms.

        1. I agree, both parties need to sacrifice some. I obviously can’t speak on behalf of OP, but just from her posts it sounds like her husband has made sacrifices in terms of (1) working long hours at a demanding job, which has allowed OP to drop down to working only 4 days per week and (2) moving to OP’s hometown, where he has few friends/connections. Parenting requires sacrifice, but it doesn’t require sacrificing everything.

          1. It sounds like the OP dropped down to 4 days a week at her job because of her husband’s long hours, and may have moved back to her hometown because her husband works long hours.

            I work longer hours than my husband does, earn most of the household income, moved halfway across the country for his job, and I still think that I have massive obligations in our marriage. I would NOT use my higher earning power and longer working hours to golf every weekend for six hours.

          2. I am the OPs husband in my marriage. I work very long hours. I also make enough money that we could afford for him to quit his job entirely. That doesn’t entitle me to have a six hour every weekend hobby every weekend when we have young kids.

      7. Wow, this is TERRIBLE advice. You could have deleted this long response and simply wrote: suck it up, divorce it worse, give your husband everything he wants.

        OP didn’t mention divorce, this is an entirely resolveable issue with communication and compromise. I feel really bad for you that this is the advice you center your life around – you’re going to end up married but lonely, miserable, and wondering why your husband doesn’t take what you say seriously and your children don’t respect you – because you give in “for peace”.

      8. This whole idea of an implicit warning “if we get divorced you’ll be stuck with the kids even more” is a big NO. In a situation of true toxic resentment, any woman is better without a partner who dismisses her needs entirely as opposed to one who is around when he feels like it and takes credit for it. I’m writing inarticulately because this is just so, so ridiculous.

        1. Actually, what I meant and may not have articulated well is, if you’re divorced, your children will see their father even less, since OP’s primary concern seems to be less about herself and her own needs and more about the fact that she feels the children aren’t seeing their dad enough.

          2. That’s not necessarily true anyways. Many absent fathers find themselves spending net more time with their kids post divorce. Mom getting sole custody as a default isn’t really a thing anymore.

      9. Or, sounds like he can ride out a few months with reduced time on his hobby to serve his marriage, and then when things get better, pick it back up again.

        “I think it’s a very male thing to want to be out in the world, rather than feeling “trapped” at home.”

        That’s a human thing.

        “Men can feel trapped if they are nagged into staying home and don’t feel like it is their choice.”

        Men can grow the f* up. Did he or did he not willingly have children?

      10. My mom did this. She didn’t realize that she was teaching her daughter to subjugate all her own needs and desires. But she was. I basically stayed in a 10 year relationship with and then married my high school sweetheart (weakly objecting most of the way) because that was what HE wanted and he was the man so I just had to make it work! Thankfully that relationship ended but I kept repeating the dynamic with other men, for years.

        I am almost 40 and just barely starting to figure out how massively screwed up this was.

        OP, thank you for today’s dose of gratitude that I am single.

        1. Hey, lady – need a shoulder to lean on?

          I was always told that I was “too hard on men,” and therefore, took waaaay too much crap from them. It didn’t result in me getting married, or even being in a long-term relationship; it just meant that I was chronically miserable. My disposition is (had been?) to be extremely accommodating, so I’m not the type who needed to be told to accommodate *more* – to get to me a healthy balance, I had to learn to put the brakes on people.

          End result? I finally got married at age 37 to a truly wonderful man… and constantly battle all the bad lessons I learned after being browbeaten. The good thing is that my family has gone completely insane, so my husband understands that I’m a recovering doormat, not a shrew.

        2. By no means do I think OP, or anyone, should “subjugate all their needs and desires” in a relationship. OP herself said she doesn’t necessarily want to ask her husband to stop his hobby and asked how others handle similar situations and don’t feel resentful. It sounds like part of what OP needs and desires — rightly, in my opinion — is for her husband to feel supported in something that’s important to him. It also sounds like she’s able to maintain a fitness hobby of her own, albeit one that takes less time than her husband’s, and that her need/desire to live in her hometown has been met, and that she has transitioned to working part-time (presumably something she needed/desired).

          1. Sorry your response has been attacked a lot. I think what you’re saying is pretty reasonable.

      11. You’ve said the OP needs to step back and look at the big picture – I think this IS the big picture. They are at a point in life when childrearing is at its most demanding. The OP’s husband believes that at this point in their lives, he gets to take 6 hours every weekend because he is really into improving his golf game right now. Candidly, unless your spouse is 100% on board with it, during this phase of life I don’t think you get to decide that you are going to be really into focusing on a hobby. Hobbies are discretionary and subject to both spouses’ agreement. The fact that he is so intransigent on this during such a tough phase of parenting suggests to me that there is something bigger going on here.

      12. I can’t even with this. You got one part right, that if you’re OK with it, everything is fine. But it sounds like the OP feels this isn’t fair (and it isn’t!) and the healthy way to deal with that is not to shrug and say, “oh well, I’m lucky to have a husband, even his hobby is more important to him than showing me respect!”

        My dad is an ER doctor. For whatever reason (probably that young kids are hard, and/or he lacked seniority to demand a better schedule) he liked to work nights when we were kids. He made lots of money, my mom was a SAHM. My mom probably rationalized similarly, and you know what? It never got better. He slept during the day, worked at night, and barely participated in the grunt work of running a household or raising kids for years and years. Sure he had days off and he did some yardwork and was a fun dad. Sure he was the sole breadwinner we were financially comfortable and had family time on vacations. My parents got divorced after 15 years, and the primary reason was that my dad never tried to prioritize being present for the day-to-day chore of family life, and my mom got incredibly resentful that he felt entitled to her hard work and accommodation. And he was skipping family work, not even a hobby! At least work has some tangible rewards for the rest of the family.

      13. If you WANT to support him, and dont mind foregoing family time on one weekend day a week, then the solution is to get a babysitter for some of those 6 hours. I also work long hours and I have four kids, and I cram all my “hobbies” (exercise, yoga, getting my nails/hair/eyebrows done) into the weekends. And, my husband, who also works long hours and definitely does (at least) 50% of all non-outsourced child/house stuff, LOVES golf and it is his only hobby. He also doesnt exercise outside the house or socialize often without the family, so the golf is not as offensive as it would be if it was on top of lengthy trips to the gym, nights at the bar, afternoons at boozy baseball games, etc . This is what works for us: he gets an early tee time, I get up with the kids b.c I love my lazy weekend mornings with my kids, I drink coffee, get them breakfast, set up for the day. Then a babysitter comes and I go to run, workout class, yoga, nail salon, hair salon, whatever I want/need to do. We meet back at home a few hours later and have the afternoon/evening as a family.

      14. I cannot believe Kart is receiving so much criticism for this comment. She never said the poster should stay home with the kids while husband golfs. There are alternatives including hiring childcare. She did point out, however, that women are naturally more inclined to *want* to hang out with children for the entire weekend. It might be possible to force a partner to quit six hours of golfing on the weekend. It is not possible to make the partner want to hang out with his family instead of playing golf or to keep him from resenting not being able to play golf. Maybe that is fine with most, but it would really be a last resort for me. I have never found a way for everything to be equitable all the time in divisions of household and family labor. Having young children is so tedious and time consuming but the years seem so much shorter than the days.

        1. I hate this advice. Yes the years are shorter than the days but that’s ALSO true for the OPs husband. Missing out on golf for a few years isn’t going to kill him.

          Women aren’t the only ones who should make sacrifices. I suspect the husband would get over not golfing for a few years. I’m not sure the OP would ever get over the resentment of feeling abandoned in the trenches.

        2. While I agree with you that if OP can reframe her thoughts on this, everything would be okay, I have MAJOR ISSUE with the concept that we, as women, are always the ones to take the L on these situations. We have to “be the bigger person” and accept and deal and reframe and adjust to men’s whims. I’m over it.

        3. If a wife worked long hours and then wanted leisure time away from the kids, specifically for being away from the kids, you would probably wonder if she were properly maternal.

          I was raised by my dad, who worked long hours and still made raising us a priority. There is NOTHING masculine about abdicating your family responsibilities.

    10. I’d also be resentful. That’s not ok. Do you also get six hours to yourself every weekend?

      You have young kids, super time consuming hobbies need to take a back seat for a while.

    11. cross post on the moms site because there are some people who read there but not here. what kind of hobby is this? golf? is this a seasonal hobby or a year round hobby? regardless this would not work for me at all either and i would be super resentful. i’m guessing you work too, but that he perhaps works more hours? that is our situation and i struggle with taking “me” time because in theory i do have more “me” time than DH, but I also do A LOT more of the parenting work so I still sometimes need a bit of a break. While i do not think that things generally should be tit for tat, i kind of agree with the above poster that if he takes 6 hours off every weekend you should also take 6 hours off every weekend….then he would have to spend time with the kids. is your DH someone who maybe was not so into the baby stage and doesn’t realize that now with a 3 year old he can do things with the kid? could he at least do this hobby once a month or every other weekend? every weekend seems beyond insane to me.

      1. I am thinking golf. My husband has played golf every Sunday morning, weather permitting, with the same group of guys every Sunday since before I even met him. It was non-negotiable, and it was really hard and a great source of stress when the kids were young. I will admit to some resentment. We dealt with it by him playing very early, and then when he walked into the house after, I walked out and did something for myself that afternoon. Now the kids are older, and I am so glad he kept up with this. I love the lazy Sunday mornings with my kids and I am glad my husband has this outlet and these friends. But I really, really feel your pain and remember how hard it was.

        1. I think I would love this arrangement!! But it has to be equitable – 6 hours for him, 6 hours for her. And that’s what you two got right.

          1. +1

            This time away needs to be equitable between both parents. I honestly don’t think it’s healthy for kids when parents sacrifice their lifelong hobbies and live “in the trenches.” Maybe that’s the best that people can do in many situations, but it’s really not ideal.

      2. The hobby is golf so cannot really split it up into smaller sessions and it is seasonal (but the season can get pretty stretched out depending on the weather). I definitely make time for my main hobby which is exercising/running but thats more like 45 min to an hour every day before the kids wake up and occasionally a bit longer on a Saturday. My husband is into the kids and is great with them so he definitely isn’t the kind of dad looking to get away, it’s just that he really enjoys this hobby and is super into trying to get better etc.

        He is usually a great guy but whenever I bring it up or get upset the response is usually just like I’m sick of you complaining about golf get over it kind of thing and then I feel like the bad guy for not “letting him” enjoy the hobby or “guilting him” as he said this morning. Ugh.

        I’m also doing way more of the childcare/house work because I recently dropped to 4 days a week at work and he is really busy.

        1. Oh honey no. He doesn’t get to try and go pro as a golfer while you have little kids. He can take a 6:30 t time and get in 18 holes by 10. The fact that he isn’t tells you this isn’t a time problem it’s a lack of respect issue. Schedule marriage counseling.

        2. So golf doesn’t need to take 6 hours. That’s ridiculous even a full 18 really shouldn’t take that long.

          He can cut back to 9 holes and take the earliest tee time. Early morning players tend to move the pace faster so that should cut it back to 2-3 hours.

          Also have you considered an arrangement that he needs to get a sitter for the time this activity takes. That way you can also get time to yourself. If a sitter is too expensive then the activity is too expensive.

          1. Not the OP but I’m guessing 6 hours includes commuting time. If it includes “clubhouse time” then no he needs to come straight home not hang out.

            Does he always go out with the same guys? I think his heel-digging may have something to do with the people he’s choosing to hang out with. They’re telling him he’s right, OP is being a nag, oh aren’t womenz cray. That’s hard to fight against.

        3. What is your childcare arrangement for when you are working the 4 days you work? Can you put the kids in childcare for that fifth day and have that be your time “off” to correspond to DH’s 6 hours on the weekends?

          1. Also, can the chores and errands that you mention needing to be done on the weekend be done on your day off of work so that you don’t feel like you’re handling them on weekends?

          2. … you just contradicted yourself with these statements. Put the kids in childcare on that “day off” and then … do chores all day?

          3. I’m guessing that the OP’s day off work isn’t leisure time – it’s parenting and household maintenance time.

            It is highly unlikely that there is a solution here that lets OP’s husband both play golf for 6 hours every weekend AND have a functional marriage. You’ve said she’s in the trenches with a new baby – they need to be in the trenches together.

          4. pugsnbourbon, I understand that time spend doing chores/errands isn’t the same as time “off”–I’m just interested in how OP uses that non-working day now and wondering, if she has the kids, whether she can use it to get an additional 8-10 hours kid-free that might help things feel more balanced.

        4. Oh heck no. Therapy, and he makes some serious changes. The way he’s dismissive of this very real time suck and impact to your lives is NOT ok.

        5. Yeah, exactly — you’re fitting your own hobby into pockets of time that don’t take you away from your responsibilities. And 45-60 minutes is nothing compared to six hours on the weekend! If your DH feels guilty, he probably should. Sorry, having tiny kids is not compatible with upping your golf game.

        6. Gosh, that’s a tough one. It sounds like he’s really digging his heels in. I think you need to have a come to jesus talk about this – can you show him quantitatively how much time you spend on things versus him? Can you just start booking things the morning he normally plays? Presumably, he won’t just leave them there, he can skip golf or arrange for childcare.

        7. You’re not guilting him by asking that he spend time taking care of the kids before swanning off to do his favorite optional hobby. That’s ridiculous. You need to make it very clear that this is an actual issue you want to fix, not just something that irritates you once in a while.

          I want to come up with a compromise, but it doesn’t sound like your schedule has any other large chunks of time you could offer him in exchange for a Saturday morning, and it sounds like toddler is just too young to go to the golf range with him (I used to go with my dad, but I was at least 5?). I think you’re just going to have to ask that he reassess his priorities and insist at every turn that this is a partnership issue, not a “naggy wife” issue.

        8. I have a comment awaiting moderation. It says, among other things, that the number of transitions in your life recently are an excellent reason to head to couples counseling. This additional “my husband says I’m guilting him” detail really makes me wanna double down on that. That’s not a cool way to approach conflict AT ALL.

          Also, unless improving his golf game is improving his career (doubtful) or his health (EXTREMELY doubtful) he’s doing this for his own gratification. He needs to grow up.

        9. I would be so, so hurt if my SO spoke to me that way. Have you asked him why he thinks it’s ok to respond to your concern by being condescending and dismissive? Does he speak to you this way in other contexts?

        11. I live in a place that you can golf year round, so this is a common issue with my friends with kids. And yes, golf can take 6 hours – the game alone or the game and lunch and/or drinks after with the guys.

          I will say that NONE of my friends with young kids take this much time every week to golf. While the dads would love to do this every weekend, they limit it to one or twice a month on the weekend, and then some weekday games (depends on their jobs, of course). The other thing that plays into this is that golf is expensive! I would have a problem with the money spent on this hobby each week!

          It’s probably not going to be easy, but you need to tell him that he needs to cut back to say twice a month, and then be home to help on the weekends with chores and participate in family time. He is not a single dude or a married guy with no kids anymore, so he needs to stop acting like he is. It is unfair to you.

          1. Of course golf can take 6 hours but you don’t play 6 hour rounds with clubhouse time when you have young kids.

            Golf is a big thing in my family and now that his kids are grown my dad golfs evey Saturday and every Sunday. But no he wasn’t playing leisurely 6 hour rounds when he had young kids. He was playing quick 9 hole rounds, getting the earliest tee time/leaving before we were awake to maximize time with his kids, skipping some weekends, cutting out the lunch after golf, limiting some days to just an hour at the driving range. The answer here isn’t 6 hours every weekend or nothing. OPs husband can definitely cut back without giving up the hobby entirely.

          2. +1 to Anon at 11:08. There are plenty of options for him to continue this as a hobby that aren’t 6 consecutive hours every weekend. That your husband isn’t willing to create work-arounds is a bigger issue to me than his wanting to golf. The first tee time on a Wednesday morning gets him to his desk by 11 if needed. He could try that. The range for an hour, 9 holes, take an older child with him to practice chipping and putting. Unless he’s on the tour or a club pro, accommodations can and should be made.

          3. Just cosigning as the daughter and granddaughter of serious golfers. My dad has golfed for years and years but when my brother and I were young, my dad would go once or twice a month and then he would take an early tee time (like 6:30) and either play a fast 18 holes or 9 holes, and then come home by 10. Now that we are grown and he is retired he will sometimes play 36 holes in a day but that’s because he has nothing but time on his hands! Unless the OP’s husband has some kind of serious PGA aspirations that are realistic, he does not need to be playing 6 hrs a weekend. He has lots of years to improve his game when the kids aren’t so little, and eventually they can go with him (my dad loves to take my son golfing!).
            My dad figured out how to balance his interest in golf with being there for our family and the OP’s husband can too. This will become an issue as the kids get older and realize that Dad is blowing them off to play golf instead of going to their soccer games or dance recitals or whatever. OP, now is the time to get straight about this and lay down some ground rules. And please don’t listen to the !diot above that warned you that divorce is harder than living with the problem. You know what’s even harder than divorce? Being a married single parent. Have seen friends take that on and it is the sucker bet of all time. Don’t get caught in that trap.

        12. you both need to read the book how not to hate your husband after kids in which the husband goes on long bike rides. i think your husband is being completely unreasonable, but i guess it also depends on how you view the problem – (a) you do not want to be left alone with the kids? (b) you want to spend more time as a family? (c) you there are chores and stuff that aren’t getting done? If the issue is a or c, and you have the money – can you outsource? like could you get childcare for part of that time? you said you moved back to your hometown – do your parents live there? do they want grandparent time once a week? if the issue is (b), then he definitely needs to change how he plays golf…. could you reach an agreement where he does this once a month or every other week? you said he likes to improve his game – so I am not a golfer, but if you are trying to reach a compromise, could he play the full game once or twice a month and then on other weekends go to a driving range for an hour?

        13. While golf isn’t family friendly YET, could you join a county club with kids activities and a pool? Husband can do 9 holes while you and The kids lounge at the pool, do arts and crafts, etc. the CC my golf friends belong to has all kinds of activities for the kids so the golf-spouse isn’t stuck with childcare.

        14. I’d be okay with golf as a hobby, but he needs to fit it in around family time, not fit family around golf. Is he willing to take a 7 am tee time so that he can be home with the kids all afternoon and evening? And is he willing to give you equal time in return?

        15. I”m a big proponent of parents making time for themselves, but 6 hours every weekend with 2 really young kids, on top of a full time job with long hours is not cool, especially if it is not cool with you . Agreed that this is a partnership issue. There are things he can do to make golf less of an imposition on you, and he should do them. Changing the tee time, playing 9 holes, or occasionally switching to a weekday game, picking up some extra household chores to take them off your plate, arranging childcare during his golf games so you have a break… he needs to make an effort. Or he needs to accept that this season of his life is incompatible with weekly rounds of golf. My husband used to golf pretty regularly, but he’s gone may be 2-3 times a season since our kids were born. We both have shifted to hobbies that are more compatible with preserving family time, or at least balancing the impact on the other parent.

        16. OP, my parents are celebrating their 50th anniversary today. They both had extremely successful careers and raised two kids who are happy, healthy, sane, and self-supporting. If you ask my dad what the secret was, he says, “We played doubles when other people were playing singles.”

          You need your husband to play doubles with you. This is therapy-worthy – not over his golf, but because I suspect that there is something much bigger going on here if a parent with a young child isn’t capable of deprioritizing a hobby during this stage of life.

          1. I love this idea – playing doubles rather than singles. Works on so many levels.

            Our hobbies have definitely changed since having kids – we bike with the kids in the trailer, we joined a gym with childcare rather than going to soul cycle or whatever – but we also have similar hobbies and pretty much always have. It’s part of what brought us together was learning to enjoy each other’s hobbies.

          3. OMG so much this!

            My former husband thought he was playing singles against me, even though I thought we were playing doubles together. My current husband is doubles all the way and it’s so amazing!

            Yes, OP. Get your husband to therapy until you two figure out how to be Team Us. Good luck!

    13. I think if this is really that important to him, and he’s not being a selfish jerk, he’d already be doing the work to make it work. He’d already be looking into doing it every other week, or less than 6 hours at a time, or be really committed to getting home every Thursday and doing three loads of laundry and tidying the house even though he’s tired, and he’d already have a schedule in place where Sunday mornings he gets up early with the kids and gets them fed, dressed, out of the house to the playground, buys the groceries, and returns home at 10 with two kids ready to nap, coffee and the newspaper for you, and a great attitude.

      If he’s not doing that, congrats on marrying into the patriarchy cause that is nonsense?

    14. Honestly, six hours to yourself in a week isn’t that much time. I understand how it’s frustrating and unfair in your situation, but I wouldn’t approach this with “you spend WAY TOO MUCH time on this.” Some hobbies are extremely worthwhile and can’t be done in less time. Find a way to talk about this that it fair to you, but also fair to him. Can he go early in the morning or late in the evening? Miss one weekend a month?

      Also, to the commenter somewhere above who said that work is a hobby for women…just no. Tons of women on this site alone have awesome hobbies along with career and kids.

      1. I don’t think it’s the amount of time but rather the BLOCK of time. A hobby that takes nearly a full work day all at once every week is very different from a hobby that takes an hour or so five nights a week and an occasional weekend. OP’s husband is working long hours, sometimes on the weekends, and doing a hobby that takes up roughly the active daylight hours of an entire weekend day. This is unreasonable. He may as well not even be there if he’s only going to spend time with his children one day a week, by choice, and probably spends a large chunk of that day doing all the crap he can’t do during other days due to the his work and hobby.

        OP you have an absentee husband, you need to nip this in the bud quickly.

    15. My husband has a friend who has three kids under five and a consuming hobby that he spends basically all weekend on. He also recently made a career change that substantially increases the amount of time spent at work while substantially decreasing the amount of money he was making and his job security. Now he’s in the middle of divorce proceedings.

      I’m not saying leaving your husband is the way to go here. AT ALL. But this sort of cluelessness around the responsibilities of childrearing and household maintenance is really toxic for a relationship. I think you need to have a real come to Jesus talk with your husband about making sure that you both have time and space to live your lives as individuals and that you’re both contributing fairly to your children’s care. I feel like the “we just moved and he doesn’t know anyone” is red herring here. Your husband could meet fellow dads while taking your kids to the park as readily as he can meet people LARPing on the other side of that park. Big transitions like moves can be hard, but they’re not an excuse for selfishness.

      I’ll also throw out there that this is an excellent time for some couples’ counseling. Not because I think you should leave him or because I think your marriage is in deep shirt. Big transitions–new kids! new house! new town!–can really unsettle people and relationships. There’s no shame in getting a little outside help to navigate changes like these.

    16. Can he shift the time of day so that it’s not intruding on family time so much? If the hobby is something like running or cycling, he can be out the door at 5 a.m. and back home by 11.

      The bigger issue is that he thinks he’s entitled to nearly a full day of “me time” every single weekend but you are not entitled to time off, and that he doesn’t seem to want to spend much time with the kids. I’m not sure if therapy can help shift his thinking? Frankly I think men having friends who are good dads is more beneficial than anything a therapist or SO can say. Do you have male friends or family who can lead by example?

    17. Not ok. There are some things we just don’t do right now since we have a small child.

    18. OP, I am not totally clear – does he have other “off” time apart from this golf chunk, or is the rest of his week just work and home? Because while I can understand that this is a large time at once, if 6 hours per week is his leisure time, then it does not sound completely unreasonable in its totality.

      I work a long hours job, have some kind of esthetic appointment pretty much weekly (hair, nails, laser etc) and I go out at least one night per week to see friends and sometimes twice…that comes to six or so hours and I would be pretty sad and upset if my husband did not think I was entitled to 3% of each week to do something recreation for myself.

      Are you getting any time away?

    19. I went through this with my golfing husband when my kids will little. What worked for us: (1) he took the first tee time of the day (6 am) so he could be home in time for lunch, and he could not complain about how tired he was for getting up so early on the weekend; (2) he limited these sessions to once a month; (3) if he wanted to play more than once a month, he would take PTO to golf while the kids were in daycare (he gets 6 weeks per year which he has trouble using anyway). Now that our kids are older we golf as a family every week. He rarely goes out for long rounds with friends.

      2. But isn’t one of the main perks of golf the social aspect with friends? Honestly, men need a friend outlet too and I wouldn’t push to rearrange the timing of play so that the social part is lost. Just get equal time OP – get a babysitter and take a regular evening with your girlfriends or whatever you like too. In the subjugation of needs contest, I think parents do it to their kids way too much. People need a life outside of work and family. Make that happen for both parents.

    20. The hobby that takes 6 hours every weekend would be a no for me. My husband and I also had this issue crop up when DD was a baby, in this case, a weekly basketball game in the middle of every Saturday. I basically told him he wasn’t going to be able to spend 3 hours away every Saturday afternoon.

      This is still a sore topic for us because even though we are supposed to split early morning time with DD on the weekend (I have Saturday, he has Sunday), I still end up not being able to sleep in on Sunday, his day, and do not get nearly as much alone time as he does on Saturday. Commiseration, lady. I don’t have the answers.

      That NYT article that came out recently that said many men think their lives will continue on as they have even after having children is spot on.

      1. And I want to add that the solution to this problem should be HIM adjusting his golfing schedule, not OP contorting herself (adding more to the “emotional labor” she’s already no doubt doing) to make this work for their family. I am riled up about this topic today. Ugh.

    21. Hey. Just want to say I’m there with you. My son is three and my husband has been golfing from about 12-7 every Saturday. Ymmv but below is how I’m dealing with it to keep everyone happy:

      I basically get the whole morning to myself (including groceries, a run and long shower.) My husband leaves around nap time so I’ll call some local friends and family and invite them over for around 5. I’ll run a quick errand (usually for fun drinks and snacks) or two and fix up my house after my kid wakes up around 2. Then we’ll do a low key hangout with dinner (last week I made tacos. I’ m not above ordering pizza) and my husband will walk in sometime around when food is ready. It’s pretty low stress and I don’t feel like I’m a martyr or like I’m missing out while he golfs. He’s happy to walk into a house full of people and do dishes and clean up after.

      1. I posted about my husband who (used to) golf below – I actually like this a lot and we used to do something similar with just one kid. Not sure it works for the OP because two kids really threw things for a loop. Our weekends are much more “all hands on deck” now, but with one kid was doable.

        1. +1 Everyone has to figure out what works for them and their family but I cannot stand when women do this type of mental gymnastics. Grocery shopping is a chore not a hobby.

        2. False! Or at least, to each her own. I love grocery shopping alone. I saw a cartoon that said (paraphrasing) “Parenthood: When vacations feel like work, and going to the grocery store alone feels like a vacation.” Whoever wrote that sees me.

          DH and I also try to time our solo weekend daytime activities to overlap with naptime.

          The key part of Suburban’s typical weekend golf day is that she describes it as “pretty low stress and I don’t feel like a martyr or like I’m missing out while he golfs.” As long as the other person doesn’t feel abandoned or taken advantage of, there’s nothing wrong with one partner indulging in a time-consuming hobby.

          1. I find those memes hilarious as a parent but there’s a world of difference from laughing about how chores can be more enjoyable post kids as a way to get some quiet and pretending like grocery shopping is the equivalent of golf.

            If both parents want to make some chores something they do without kids as a way to get a mental break that’s fine. If my me time is grocery shopping alone while husband watches the kids and his me time is cleaning toilets while I wrangle the kids, fine. But no you are categorically wrong. Grocery shopping is not “me time” when your partners me time is golf.

          2. Sure, you might like grocery shopping alone compared to going with your kids, but if it’s your “hobby” while your husband gets to do a fun sport outdoors, then we’re on different planets.

    22. I agree this isn’t tenable, but I’d approach this in a you + husband vs. the problem kind of way because you’re more likely to get better results that way. For example “Hey husband, can we talk about our responsibilities and how we spend our time? I want you to have time for your hobbies and work, because your happiness is really important to me and our family, but I’m really struggling with some things. Let’s talk about what we can change so we can both get the time we need.” I think if you approach it this way, he may be more amenable to cutting back on golf. and if you find another way to get both your needs met, so much the better!

      This must be so frustrating, so sorry you’re dealing with this. And if he’s not receptive then there’s an even bigger problem.

    23. Um yeah no. My husband golfed pre kids. We have a 2 and 4 year old. He now plays once or twice a year? This is not that season in life. With kids those days and working a lot, kids and work is all you have time for. Hopefully you enjoy one or both of those things. We’ve discussed how we plan to pick back up hobbies in a couple years. But for now, they are on hold. He did do a ski trip with friends this year since same situation, we moved for my family and he doesn’t have many in this area. Look for solutions like that – I’d rather give him one weekend away then a regular six hour hobby time.

    24. My husband and I make time for hobbies/ time for ourselves with some combination of waking up early, planning ahead, getting babysitters or family help, and doing hobby but for a reduced period of time.

      I agree that, if this is your husband’s only time for himself, the amount of time doesn’t sound unreasonable.

      DH and I also think of our schedule in blocks of time. If DH had a hobby that took up a large block of time, I’d probably be OK with every other weekend, ask him to be back by noon or 1, and then ask him to set aside some family time later in the day. It’s different to be gone from 6-12 than it is from 10-4. On the other weekends, I’d suggest shorter periods of time (driving range, 9 holes, whatever) where he could be back in time for everyone to do something together, and maybe be flexible with another period of downtime.

      Are you getting downtime? If your husband is working really long hours, it may not be feasible for him to take the kids for 6 hours at a time, but try to tap into family help or hire babysitters so you have some blocks of time for yourself too.

    25. I am going to address the question you are asking: how you stop resenting this rather than weighing in on whether you should try to make him stop.

      My mantra is “you cannot make another adult human being do anything.” I sometimes let my husband know I do not love his choices and we talk about how to balance things out – but I accept that (barring physical and emotional health and safety for our kids – which fortunately has never been an issue) I am not entitled to run his life for him or dictate how he parents. And I accept that the good outweighs the bad, that the person I married is not perfect and neither am I, and that both of us sometimes has to accept the others’ imperfections and let it go.

      Also, if you want time away from your children, you should definitely negotiate for that (even if its not 6 hours a weekend). My issue was always that I wanted to spend the vast majority of my free time with my children and (particularly when they were little) my husband did not. I did strongly request a standing “family date” on Saturday even if just for an hour and church + meal (even if it was take out in the park ) on Sunday. And my husband accommodated that – even though he is not really a church person and I am sure would have rather been watching football. In return, I accepted his sports (playing and watching with his friends) and the fact that he is magically blind when it comes to dirt.

    26. Do you mean he does this 6 hr hobby on every day of the weekend??? :o Or is it only one day of the weekend.

      If that’s only one day, I’d say schedule a 6 hr hobby for yourself and let your husband deal with the kids. He’ll figure it out real quick on how to work as a family.

  6. Has anyone ordered anything from Amour Vert? I am being targeted by their ads and actually like the look of some of their clothes. Curious about quality and sizing.

    1. I have some tops from Amour Vert that I like. I’m a size large with a large bust and the ones I have are really flattering and have enough fabric that, although they’re v-necks, mean that everything stays covered up and I don’t show cleavage (I don’t want to show cleavage).

    2. I have had good experiences with the merino wool sweaters. Sizing is more like Theory than J Crew.

  7. Ladies – looking for a new swimsuit for an upcoming vacation to Miami and need some help! Looking for a one piece that won’t accentuate my tummy – I am also short waisted so sometimes one pieces can be too long in the torso for me. I have looked at Nordstrom, Boden and Athleta – any other place where I should look for swimsuits? And, if anyone has a recommendation for a place to get delicious Cuban food in Miami, let me know!

    1. Summersalt! I have the Sidestroke and have been eyeing some of their other 1-piece options. Lots of choice and size-inclusive.

    2. I really like J. Crew swimsuits. They have a lot of styles online now (I recently scored a great one piece during an extra 50% off sale!).

    3. Are you willing to consider a tankini that exposes no skin? Land’s End has some high waisted bottoms and mix and match separates. That would solve the length issue.

      1. I am also short waisted and have found tankinis are awful. Depending on your hip/waist measurements, the hem of the top just bunches up at your waist instead of actually covering your midsection.

        I’ve had better luck doing a 2-piece and then adding a swimshirt – bonus of added sun proctection.

        1. I’m short waisted and I love tankinis. I have one from Old Navy and it fits me really well. It’s still going strong as we approach the 3rd summer of use.

        2. If you’re short waisted you can get petite sizing for the top. Land’s End does offer petite for their swimwear.

    4. Of all things, Torrid. Their sizes run down to 10 these days (“00”) and I had very good luck with them last year with a shorter waisted one-piece and a tankini with a long ruched top and a high-waisted bottom that looks like a retro Esther Williams number.

    6. Summersalt might work for you if you’re ok with buying online – they have a variety of flattering one pieces (as a fellow short waisted person). We stayed in south beach so we got a good meal at YUCA, but I defer to people who have better spots on the main land, cause that’s where I’ve heard the best Cuban food is).

      1. This is all really helpful – thanks! For those with the Summersalt Sidestroke – I saw that it doesn’t have any padding – I usually prefer some light padding so there aren’t any n*pple issues – is that an issue with the suit?

        1. I don’t have a side stroke (I have the one with the mesh), but I took the padding out because it was a little smaller than my b00bs, and I didn’t have any n!pple issues.

  8. We have a pretty standard 1970s colonial style house. Our master BR is fairly large for a house of that era-25×15. The master bath is 8×8.

    We don’t use nearly the entirety of our bedroom floor space. I’d like to look at different ways to expand the bathroom, possibly combining it with our walk-in closet (I’ve seen more modern build houses have the closet and bathroom be one area).

    Are there websites I should be looking out for renovation inspiration? We’ve done home projects in the past that have involved an architect but I’ve always given her more of a vision. Houzz is great for decorating but not really before/after or examples of modernized 1970s homes. So far I’ve just been creeping on homes listed for sale but most don’t have the kind of renovation I’m envisioning (it isn’t going to be cheap…).

    1. Combining closets and bathrooms give me the heebie-jeebies due to humidity/mildew concerns. Knocking mildew off clothes you haven’t worn in a while isn’t my idea of a good time.

      1. My closet is off my bathroom. In 6 years, I’ve never had issues with mold and mildew. They are separate; there is a door that closes to my closet.

        1. I’m in the humid south (Florida) and have experienced it several times over the years, particularly when living in older houses that had parts w/o air conditioning.

    2. Check out itsgreattobehome.net. She no longer updates, but this blogger and her husband flip high end homes in Dallas that were built between ~1950-1970. She includes detailed floor plans in the posts, and many of the projects involved expanding or reconfiguring bathrooms to create a more modern master suite.

    3. I think you need to look less on Houzz an consult an architect. You need to find out if this is feasible before you start picking out tile. With respect to the humidity issue, I wouldn’t worry about it. The new builds in my area have closet connected to master bathroom as standard – with a bathroom that large and humidity fans built in, it’s never an issue. Also, these closets have doors that close, your clothes will be fine.
      Unless you’re planning on using your bathroom as a steam room or have exceptionally fragile clothes I wouldn’t worry about the humidity issue.

    4. We looked at several houses that had a walk-in closet as the entry to a bathroom. It struck me as strange because I don’t want to walk past my clothes to shower.

        1. Eh, I lived in an apartment with the closet bathroom combo and didn’t love it/found it odd. Different strokes

      2. I also dislike walking through an open closet in order to get to the bathroom. I’d rather have a door that shuts and separates the areas. (Also, because my closet isn’t always pristine; it’s not a glorious sight like a magazine closet is.)

  9. I’m in the tech industry and am used to wearing nothing but jeans so am unsure how to dress myself for the interview for a job I really want. This would be in NYC, at a relaxed hedge fund where according to their desire some employees wear jeans and some wear suits. Does this sound okay for an interview outfit? Would you make any modifications?

    navy sheath dress
    either pale pink collarless blazer or dark grey jardigan (usually I wear the pink but maybe it’s weird for a hedge fund)
    navy suede wedge pumps with a 2″ heel that go well with the dress
    no hose or tights
    understated jewelry and makeup, no nail polish

    I’ve worn similar outfits to interviews before but I think what’s throwing me is I know nothing about this industry (even though this place seems atypical), and everyone around me is going to have tonnes of money whilst all my “nice” jewelry consists of cool-looking colored glass.

    1. I’d watch an episode or two of Billions and dress like Wendy! Wendy would wear a sheath dress, no jacket, no hose or tights, understated jewelry and makeup. I don’t think she wears nail polish but I am not sure.

      1. Please, please do NOT dress like Wendy on Billions! I cringe at her outfit choices whenever I watch that show (which is every week). Seriously, I used to work extensively with finance people, and her outfits definitely border on inappropriate. Skin tight, lots of suggestive flashes, sky high heels, full length exposed zippers. Not saying you can’t rock it once you’re in the office if you know the culture, but do not wear something like that to an interview!

        What the OP suggested sounds fine, although to be safe, I would probably go for the grey jardigan and not the pink. You would also be totally fine in an actual suit.

      2. She’s amazing – her style always leaves me drooling (we look nothing alike, but she has a look I’ve always coveted). BTW. she often wears dark, vampy nail polish – bordering on black.

    2. Wear a suit. If some people there wear suits, you wear a suit to the interview. I wouldn’t say you have to go black suit, white shirt, hose, but I’d still go with a grey or navy suit, some sort of colored top underneath if you want to show more personality, and coordinating shoes. Agreed on understated jewelry and makeup.

      1. +1. I work at a company wear people literally show up in sweatpants sometimes (in tech) and still more a suit to my interview, albeit a slightly less classical one than I would have worn for a big law interview. Most of our interviewees wear suits. It’s fine and we don’t hold it against them. You’re better off erring on the side of too formal for an interview.

    3. Oh this is easy. Wear a suit. It’s an interview at a place where some people wear suits. So you should too.

    4. I think what you suggested is fine, except I’d go with a traditional coordinating, but not matching blazer. An interview at a “jeans optional” place to me screams “suiting separates” in traditional colors. I wouldn’t go with the pink blazer unless that’s all you had – I think this calls for a light grey or khaki/camel/dark brown colored blazer in suiting material.

      A jardigan is too casual for an interview.

    5. Wear a suit. I interviewed at a similar hedge fund recently (possibly the same one!) and was told by the recruiter to wear a suit. I wore a more interesting blouse/jewelry than I normally would have. While my interviewers were in jeans, it was clear that they expected me to be in a suit.

    6. Definitely wear a suit! If what you described is all you have wear the gray jacket with the dress. I have been in finance as a manager for most of my life and am now an image consultant. Always err on the conservative side. Also wear something you feel comfortable in. You should have at least one go to interview suit. Good luck!

    1. Invest in brands that use good fabrics and robust construction in the first place, they are less likely to take on a weird sheen or get a droopy lapel. Use a viciously expensive dry cleaner that treats them like they are couture.

  12. What would you wear: bachelorette party in Chicago in June – dinner/drinks/dancing in Logan square. Group is mostly mid-30s. Links to specific items are appreciated! I haven’t been out much since having a kid…

    1. I live in Chicago, near Logan Square–it’s a hipper, more casual going out scene there than in River North/Gold Coast. I don’t have exact links but a skirt (or jeans if it’s not too muggy) with wedges and a flattering top would be my go-to. A casual summer dress would be cute too! Logan is a pretty low key nightlife scene so I wouldn’t worry about dressing up too much.

    2. I would wear white cropped jeans or boyfriend jeans, a silk cami and either slides or mules.

  13. My company has an employee benefit where if you do a certain thing and submit the proper paperwork you get $10,000. If you stay for two years, the money is yours free and clear. If you leave before two years, you have to pay it back at a prorated amount. Would you take the money knowing you will leave in one year and have to pay back half?

    1. Absolutely, just don’t spend that half – you’ve still received an extra $5k in your pocket.

    2. Yes of course. I’d keep what I’ll have to pay back in savings and not touch it

    4. Yes!!!! In the worst case, you still come out $5k ahead. And, depending on the reason why you are leaving, it may not happen in one year – it takes long to find a new job, you decide to wait longer to move, put off school for a year for another reason, etc.

    5. I’d treat it like a student loan. Is it interest-free, or are the terms better than you’d get on the open market? I don’t think you’re stealing from the company.

    6. Yes. That is, unless they charge you higher interest for the portion you have to pay back than you would earn by putting the amount in an online savings account.

    7. Would you pay taxes on the $10k, and would that amount be taken out of what you had to pay back? I.e. if they give you $10k, and your net is $7k after taxes, would you have to pay back the full $5k, or just $3.5k? You’d still get some money, but something to consider.

      1. +1

        Usually the case that you will pay taxes on the bonus, but need to pay back the full amount.

    8. Thanks all. It is taxed. I’ll check to see if I pay back the $5k or the lesser amount.

      1. Check whether it is taxed when you receive it or when it’s “forgiven.” If it’s treated as a loan, then it’s taxable when forgiven.

  14. I recently advised an individual client on a contract negotiation. This is not normally part of my practice, but a Very Important Partner requested/ordered that I handle. For various reasons not related to my role, the outcome felt very negative for the client. I would love some tips on what to say to the client (by email) in this sort of circumstance — something along the lines of an acknowledgment of his or her disappointment, plus maybe some tempered optimism that although there wasn’t flexibility on the contract terms, this is the start of a professional relationship between the parties that should hopefully be satisfying for all sides, and an offer to be available as questions arise down the road. I am having such trouble with the wording! (And would also be open to suggestions on alternative approaches.)

    1. If I just had a negative outcome, I don’t want to hear smooth talk about the start of a professional relationship that will be satisfying for all sides.

      What would YOU want to hear if you were the client? What would be satisfying and helpful to you? Say that.

    2. Just thank her for the opportunity to get to work with her and get to learn the business of XYZ Corp note your willingness to assist in the future with her legal needs. You are not responsible for the other side in a transaction.

  15. I’m buying a dining room table. The dining room is a defined space but given the house layout we have plenty of room to extend the table well beyond the room “walls” (open concept with some structural definition via wide openings). I’m excited to host holiday dinners and what not. I always thought I wanted a table with a leaf to extend but the table I love does not have an option with a leaf. Will I regret buying a dining table that does not have a leaf? The table is a 6-seater so it’s a “standard” size without the leaf. I could easily just add a folding table to extend for the larger dinners (that would only be a small handful of times per year).

    Halp. Style over function (necessary for only 2-4 times per year)??

    1. How many times will you REALLY use your dining room for non-holiday meals? Most of the time you’re using the space will be those big holiday gatherings, right? I’d go back to the drawing board, or showroom in this case, and find a table with a leaf (preferably more than one).

    2. Buy the table you love. There’s a decent chance that the leaf won’t add enough seating anyway, and you’re still going to have to add a folding table for big events.

      Live your best furniture life 363-361 days per year.

      1. +1. Buy the table you love, maybe get a kids table, part of the fun of holidays is being all crowded around the table together anyway, IMO.

    3. If you will be using the table on a daily basis, then I would get the table you love (especially since it sounds like you may be able to see the table from other parts of the house). I just got a new table that I love, and it really makes a difference. If you will only need a bigger table 2-4 times a year, I would just get a folding table.

    5. I went through this when furnishing a new open concept house two years ago. I ended up going with a round 6 seater when I thought I wanted a rectangle that would extend to seat 12. I ended up buying two additional round folding banquet tables and stacking (not folding) chairs. It means my seating is super flexible because I can choose the number of tables and makes every group event feel like a dinner party. Super glad I went that way since it means I have the daily table I love and the function for events.

      1. I actually don’t think you will be able to find a dup with a leaf. the style of the table is very streamlined, and that doesn’t work with a leaf.

      2. Check out the West Elm Mid-Century Expandable Dining Table. They have quite a few expandable tables, but that one has very similar lines to the one you’re looking at.

    7. Buy the one you love! We always add folding tables to the end of ours for holidays. Sure, they’re not exactly the same height or width as the dining table, but nobody ever notices – everyone is too busy drinking and eating and having a good time.

  16. Pear-shaped women, especially if you’re in the size 10-12 range: What are your favorite swimsuits? Or what’s flattering on you? I desperately need a new one and hate everything. ;) I’ve always defaulted to tankinis because I can buy the top in a smaller size, but I’m so tired of the style. Would love a cute one-piece, but Athleta’s tall styles right now are just flat-out ugly. I think boy shorts are super cute and would give me more coverage, but I only tend to see them on very small women.

    I don’t know; I’m totally fine with my body UNTIL I have to find a swimsuit. Then I feel all self-conscious and sad that I have kind of a mom-bod. (And have since before I was an actual mom!)

    1. Said it above and will say it again: Torrid. They have separates with lots of cute options. 10 is the bottom of their size range (“00”) and their “Vixen” swimsuit line has a flattering cuts and colors (ignore the name).

    2. Not sure if they’re your style per se, but I’ve found the Esther Williams one-pieces to be super flattering. I used to buy mine from ModCloth, Unique Vintage has some too.

    3. I am an extreme pear (range from a size 8-12 in bottoms) and I wear a two piece. I tried one-pieces and tankinis and realized my stomach and waist are my most flattering features so I’m not covering them up. I buy all my swimsuits from Target and get the large, full coverage bottoms, with a small top. Target has a ton of different bottom styles, including boy shorts and the full-coverage traditional bottoms, and you can buy the tops and bottoms separately and mix and match styles.

    4. Could I ask that we stop using “mom” as a pejorative? I don’t know what a “mom-bod” is as opposed to any other bod (an endocrinologist bod? A farmer bod? An aunt bod?). But whatever it is, it’s not a negative thing. Women are different ages, have different shapes, are lean or not lean, have children or grandchildren –or not–and none of those are reasons to hate the bodies that carry them through life.

    5. I am aggressively pear shaped (although smaller than a 10-12) and really struggled with one piece suits that 1) fit at all 2) looked flattering. I tried on a million things and ended up with Bleu Rod Beattie “Let’s Get Knotty.” They have a lot of similar styles (deep plunge, but with straps/knots/box, for a bit of coverage). I’m not sure why this style worked when nothing else did, but I’m not complaining. It also helps that the straps were adjustable lengths. https://www.everythingbutwater.com/products/bleu-rod-beattie/lets-get-knotty/rbkn18232e/plunge-over-the-shoulder-lace-up-one-piece-swimsuit/84373

  17. I am a junior, non-equity partner and will be taking a 2 week trip to multiple cities in Europe for the first time ever since I started working eons ago. I have a senior associate and a senior partner, so I have people who can cover my client work. How do I ensure that my projects are covered and I have minimum need to work while I am traveling? Should I split up projects and divide them between colleagues or should I have one person as the point of contact? Should the point of contact’s name be on my out of office message or should I just tell my assistant which people are on point? I am only a week away and I’m starting to get anxious that I’ll be stuck in a hotel room working while my family goes and enjoys the sights… also, I will be taking a laptop and want/need to clear out emails or else I will come back to a thousand emails so I’ll have some knowledge of what’s happening. I welcome advice from this fantastic community! I know I’m totally overthinking this, but I’ve had scars from trying to go on trips before as an associate and having them completely ruined by client emergencies.

    1. I actually tell all clients with projects in process when I leave their status and who will be covering while I am gone if any emergencies come up. (Note: My long term clients (people I deal with weekly more or less) get a speech 90 days prior that I will be gone and get told to plan accordingly. Shockingly, many of them actually do so now.)

      Clients that do not have pending matters when I leave get dealt with by the people covering for me; the first line of defense is my assistant, who has a list of where things go if they come up while I am in, and then my junior partner. I do not handle disasters that first come up in my absence while I am gone, although I will tell my team where to find things and what forms to start with.

      I get a cell plan when I travel that allows me to receive texts from my assistant and junior in case of emergency and then I return calls via wifi when I have it.

      Key for me has been an out of office e-mail that makes it clear that I am out of the office until day X and heavily time shifted, so anyone who has a time-sensitive matter should talk to my assistant and my junior partner. This cuts down on “non-emergency emergencies”.

      I deal with the e-mail by allotting no more than 30 minutes a day (usually either right when I get up or around cocktail hour, depending upon time zone) to deleting, forwarding, and occasionally answering e-mails. The strict time limit is key to enjoying the rest of the day.

      Have a great trip!

    2. Not a partner, so I’m only advising what I’ve seen others in your experience do.
      If you have different teams for different clients/projects – which would mean a different point person for each project, list your secretary in your out of office and give her a detailed list of who exactly to contact for which project
      If you work on everything with your senior partner and senior associate, indicate the senior associate as the point of contact, make sure to thoroughly update them on the status of each project and what needs to be done on those projects in the two weeks you’re gone (and have him/her to cc you on the important emails).
      Indicate to the points of contact when you want to be contacted about an issue and when they should handle it on their own or let it sit until you come back. Also, make sure they know HOW to contact you. If it’s a one off question but really important, I’d rather get a text than a phone call, but your preference may be different.
      It’s not that difficult and I think you are stressing a little bit about it, but the key is making sure that someone knows who to contact and when to contact you.
      Most importantly – treat that out of office as a serious thing. You’re out and may be checking email sporadically (when traveling I usually carve out about 30 minutes at the end of the day to skim for important matters), but literally don’t answer and leave it as unread if it’s not important or can wait.

    3. I think it is easiest to have emails directed to your assistant via the out of office message and have that person distribute to the appropriate parties. Also, if there is a client you work with frequently and will have “live” work in this time period, let them know you will be unavailable via email copying your assistant and the person covering for you.

      Not the best answer, but Europe is also pretty easy because between sightseeing and dinner you generally have an hour or two to log on when it is only midday on the US east coast. So you can respond to anything needed or quarterback your coverage.

      I would also ask your team to text you if there is a true emergency so you don’t nervously check your email during the day. And remember that you work with professionals, the world will not fall apart if you are away for a few days and it gives them an opportunity to step up.

  18. I’m volunteering for a two-week, one-hour weekly book discussion with several 6th graders, and the book is Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone. Any recommendations for resources for how to lead such discussions, or questions that would be good to talk with such a crowd? I’m in a country where we don’t normally read or discuss books as part of school, so a bit clueless all around. Thanks in advance!

    2. I’d visit the Pottermore website and make an account so I could look at the Boom Club section and see if they have discussion questions

    3. You can try googling the book and “book club questions” to see what comes up. I wouldn’t be surprised if you get some hits on what other people have done.

    5. The Sorcerer’s Stone episodes of the podcast “Binge Mode: Harry Potter” might be a useful listen beforehand. They bring up some really entertaining discussion points, as well as address chapter and book-wide themes. They’re also very funny!

  19. How would you handle? I did biglaw in NYC for 8 years in litigation. Wasn’t going to make partner and wanted out of NYC so I left and went to the government in DC (fed). It’s been 5.5 years. It’s going fine but I find myself wanting to go back to firm life — though at this point, the pull is more towards boutique/midlaw/regional, rather than going back to a v25. I’ve reached out to recruiters and they all seem not to get what I want (or likely don’t have connections there), so it’s always like — oh sure, we’ll submit you to Akin, it’s TOTALLY different than the v25 you were at. So I’ve gone along with it and unsurprisingly after 10 such submissions, not a single firm was interested. (Not shocking because I’m almost too senior to be an associate, not partner level as I have no book, and those firms with single tier partnerships and a lot of their own seniors that they aren’t promoting aren’t looking to add a counsel). I’m not saddened or shocked or anything, I just feel like I don’t want to continue submitting for no reason.

    So I’ve been poking around and have found about 8-10 firms that I’m interested in — 3 are lower tier biglaw, but rest are boutiques/midlaw etc. Question — how would you submit for these? I know recruiters say — tell me where you want to submit, and I’ll do it. But should I do that knowing that the resume is then stamped with a recruiter tag so they can get a commission? I know some say — network; but looking at linkedin — while I can find some (attenuated) contacts at the 3 bigger firms, at the rest I don’t know anyone or it’d be me asking a law school classmate I haven’t spoken to in 15 years whether they can set me up with their neighbor from 3 houses ago because it looks like he works at x (i.e. I think people will ignore said request). Has anyone ever submitted to a firm directly and gotten any kind of positive response? With corporate America or government, I 100% wouldn’t do this because I know that 99% of the time the resume doesn’t even make it out of the automated screening filters and you just get an auto reject. With firms — I’m not sure. I’ve never done it, but many of these firms list out a recruiter contact and/or hiring partner — so you’re at least sending your stuff to a human. Sure they can ignore you, but they could at least eyeball your resume before saying – we’re not hiring. Thoughts?

    1. I know my boutique firm in DC with a gov’t adjacent practice is always on the look-out, particularly for people leaving our agencies (DOL, Treasury – just in case that’s you ;) )…we just rarely have any openings publicized on our website. I don’t think it would hurt to submit an email to HR/hiring partner saying “I’m looking to make a move in case you’re looking to hire.”

    2. Craft a really good cover letter and submit it with your resume to the hiring partner (maybe cc: the practice group head if you are in a niche). I don’t see what you have to lose. I’ve known plenty of people that joined firms for positions that weren’t listed or weren’t being promoted through a recruiter. Not all of them had obvious direct connections either.

    3. With a boutique or smaller firm, I would definitely submit directly to the point of contact listed if you can. I think smaller firms will be more sensitive than big firms to the idea of avoiding recruiter fees, and I also think it’s less likely that your resume is going into the void.

    4. I am at a boutique firm in DC and we hire a lot of people in your position. Sometimes we use recruiters – we have a couple that “get us,” which means they are sending people truly interested in a firm our size and with our practices. But we’ve also had people of a variety of levels reach out directly and at least get the conversation started. In a couple instances, they just emailed their info and a cover email to our managing partner. If they show a meaningful interest in our firm, we consider it.

      Additionally, we have had great personal referrals. Other lawyers that know someone looking and think we’re a good fit. If you have contacts that way, it would be a great way to make an introduction.

    5. I’m a recruiter at a large regional firm in a midsize city. We review every submission and particularly love great candidates who come through without an agency fee attached. However you are right in that you’re in an odd spot to move – I don’t really know where we would place someone like you other than Of Counsel or Staff Attorney – and it would have to be for a specific need in that practice group. All that to say – submit on your own! They will either respond or not, and I don’t think having a recruiter tag is something that helps or hurts significantly.

    6. Midlaw in a secondary market. We love when you submit directly through our online portal/hiring partner because we don’t really want to pay a recruiter fee, unless we absolutely need to (ex. real estate sr. associates who graduated during recession years, etc.). We have gone with one of two fairly similar candidates because she did not have a recruiter fee attached.

    7. Use the recruiter for someone to proof your resume and refresh your presentation. Recruiter gets something out of it – another resume to pass along in a group knowing you won’t get it. But don’t expect a recruiter to get you this job. They work for big law almost exclusively IME.

  20. I generally wear pants but am trying to wear more dresses. I found a sleeveless sheath dress that fits nicely, and it comes in navy and dark grey. I would wear with purposely mismatched blazers (I have black and white) and cardigans. Which color do you think is more versatile? I only want to buy one.

  21. Has anyone left law for consulting? Was it a good move or do you regret it?

    It’s an idea I’ve been kicking around for a while. Finance undergrad and JD from an ivy, 9 years in biglaw litigation with a stint in the government in the middle of that. I’m in a specific area of litigation — think tax etc. (just for the sake of a hypo – it isn’t actually tax). Part of me is just starting to think I’d like to do what the business/consulting folks do in tax rather than filing briefing; it also helps that I’ve had a REALLY hard time making moves in law as the field seems so over saturated at least in the NYC-DC market/haven’t made partner/am getting senior enough that other firms aren’t super interested etc. and yet I’ve spoken to tax consultants here and there and they’ve expressed interest. I wouldn’t consider going to a big company like Deloitte etc. because I know it’d be the same slog as law firm life — it’s more of the smaller specialized places.

    I’m so back and forth on this. The simple minded view for me is — you’d be throwing away a law degree; if you leave law, don’t think you’re ever coming back. And of course in the rare occasion I’ve mentioned it — partners of a certain age (acquaintances of mine — I’ve kept it quiet at my firm) are like — why would you do that? You’re a lawyer? I don’t get it??? But these are also men who are 50-60+ — they didn’t come up at a time where it was impossibly hard to make partner or you never made partner; most made it at their first firm at age 30 and have never had the stress of hopping job to job to see if you can find a counsel position or whatever. And then I think of lay off risk etc. — seems MUCH more likely to get laid off and shown the door that day in business than in law where you get like 6 months of “reviews” etc.; and if I went into something like this and got laid off in say 1 year — we’re talking an ex lawyer who can’t go back to law with all of 1 year of business experience.

    And then the other part of me is like — if I can’t be partner someplace (and I likely can’t be), then I’d LOVE to end up the COO or similar of a company (any middle market type co. – we’re not talking Microsoft). This type of business move could put me on that path. I’ve had business interests since college — this isn’t like waking up one day and deciding to be a pro tennis player. If I don’t chance it, how will I ever know? I’m in a life situation where I can do it — can travel/no kids; etc.

    I’m sure I’m over thinking but any ideas/thoughts?

    1. I’m a MBB consultant. We hire lawyers into consulting roles and do recruit specifically for experienced professionals, to include lawyers. In my observation the lawyer-consultants I know do just as well performance-wise as anyone else. It’s completely doable. If you’re interested post a burner email and we can talk!

      2. not the OP but definitely interested in this as well. are we talking hiring lawyers from big law firms only or midsize as well?

    2. You’d likely need to be ready to come in at a more junior level than you are currently. It is more difficult to transition into consulting from a more senior role, because as you rise it is more about managing projects and managing clients in way that is a bit specific to consulting. Even at the senior consultant level, it usually takes someone around a year to get up to speed with the consulting mindset.

      You mentioned COO as a goal. Unsure what kind of consulting you are looking at going into, but not all consulting work is really going to prepare you for that. You may want to dig into this during informational interviews as you think about a transition to consulting.

  22. My mom bought me a black blazer with subtle white pinstripes in my favorite brand because it was on clearance. I don’t know what to wear it with. Suggestions? Over a blue sheath dress? With black pants? I’ve never worn a pinstripe separate piece, just a full suit.

    1. Can you link it? Different cuts of blazers lend themselves to different pairings. For a longer blazer, I’d pair with light gray ankle pants and a silky top (maybe a different B/W pattern?). For a cropped blazer, I’d wear it over a black or gray sheath.

      1. https://www.amazon.com/Kasper-Womens-Stretch-Pinstripe-Vanilla/dp/B07DK2SPKY/ref=asc_df_B07DK2SPKY/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=345625325031&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14988138696147552681&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002148&hvtargid=pla-728275327878&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=72443360874&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=345625325031&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=14988138696147552681&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9002148&hvtargid=pla-728275327878

        1. She seems to be pulling it off nicely with black pants, so I’d say it’d be fine with black pants or a black pencil skirt. For some reason I can’t really picture it with a sheath dress.

    2. I would wear with camel pants or pencil skirt, a white blouse, cute flats and a scarf that pulls in the black and the camel for non-court days.

    3. A friend of mine sometimes wear a pinstripe blazer with nice jeans, a nice t-shirt, and booties and it looks great.

  23. Introvert problem. I’m a lawyer, recently changed jobs, and am struggling with the amount of “people time” my new job requires. In my old job, I spent most of the day working by myself, corresponding with partners and clients by email, and not chit-chatting with people throughout the day. In my new job, I spend a lot more time in meetings, working closely with others on projects, and chatting with people throughout the day. I’m an introvert and I feel like all of this interacting with people is really wearing me down. I’m craving quiet, uninterrupted work days. Any tips for how to adjust to this and not feel so tired all the time?

    1. Some of it will level off with time, right? People will stop being so new and it will let up a little on the introvert cost. Can you arrange a WFH day, or put some blocks on your schedule (so they don’t get scheduled as a meeting), to get some uninterrupted work time.

      But…its possible that this workplace will just have more person contact and you’ll have to decide if that’s okay. And if you can compensate by having low-contact time after work to recoup.

    2. Is it possible to set aside one non-meeting day a week? Or to batch the meetings together so you have some uninterrupted time? When I can, I schedule meetings at the times of day when I know I’m less productive in general — so it ends up a better use of my limited energy. This is really hard, and I totally sympathize!

    3. Can you go out for a short solo walk in the afternoon? I sometimes take a lap around a nearby park.

  24. What smallish habits/changes have you implemented that have made a big impact on your daily life, how you feel, etc? Mine: I recently splurged on a fancy blender (Costco FTW) and have been drinking green smoothies every morning. I feel energized and its motivated me to make other healthy choices (drinking a large glass of water before my daily coffee, packing salads for lunch).

    1. I love this question. I started using a wake-up light alarm clock that gradually lightens the room and plays increasingly louder soothing sounds as the alarm. I’m still tired when I wake up, but it’s a noticeably more pleasant way to wake up. I also bought a stainless steel lunch container that I really like that has made packing lunch more enjoyable. I also started wearing more comfortable clothes to work (dresses instead of pencil skirts or pants) which has put me in a better mood at work. It’s amazing how much a tight pencil skirt can affect my mood.

      1. +1 to the wake up light. Sometimes I wake up before the alarm goes off, and I’m not a morning person. I also started charging my phone outside of the bedroom, so no more waking up and mindlessly scrolling in bed, I am more productive getting ready.

    2. I got my thyroid medicine dosage adjusted so that I don’t feel exhausted all the time.

    3. Started drinking coffee black instead of with dairy and lost (and kept off) 10 lbs, making no other changes.

    4. Laying out my workout clothes the night before for my workout after work the next day. Also, blocking off my calendar after work for said workouts.
      Packing my lunch for the next day while cooking dinner to save time/stress in the morning
      Immediately getting out of bed to shower rather than snoozing in the morning
      Podcasts during my hour plus commute to make it slightly more bearable

  25. Anyone interested in $25 off at Madewell? I got a code for $25 off a $75 purchase that I’m not going to use. IRP-DVXCQVT5X6 I hope somebody enjoys!

      1. Done and done. Bought a cute outfit for my trip to France, so merci!

  26. do people get access to things like digital versions of the financial times, wall street journal, etc. through work or are these things you subscribe to on your own? particularly interested if you work in finance or law?

    1. Our firm has a subscription. The librarian posts it on the firm intranet page.

      1. Same. I’ve also worked places where associates had professional development budgets and could use them for subscriptions to trade publications.

  27. I like the Boden dress but the plus option is awful. It is almost all polyester where the original is cotton. The Boden dress is breathable and has good structure. The plus size version will make you sweat like crazy in the summer. It also is a completely different shape. Not impressed.

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