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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 260 Comments · by

Thursday’s TPS Report: Long Sleeve Crew Neck Wool Jacket

The Personal Shopper (TPS)· Under $150

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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. JNY Long Sleeve Crew Neck Wool JacketThis wool sweater jacket looks like a great wear-with-everything classic: with denim, with pencil skirts, with suit pants, with colorful pants, with fit-and-flare dresses, with… well, everything. It's available in regular and plus, on sale, at Jones New York — now marked to $71 (was $119). JNY Long Sleeve Crew Neck Wool Jacket Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-2)  

Sales of note for 9.19.24

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Boden – 15% off new styles
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
  • J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
  • J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
  • Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
  • Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
  • Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
  • Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
  • White House Black Market – 40% off select styles

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

    • XC in NYC

      Hey, is this open for any Corporette reader who happens to be in NYC? I would love to go, but I’m a bit worried that I won’t fit in. I’m just starting out as an Onboarding Admin with the goal of being a recruiter in a few months.

      • NYC Meet Up

        Yes! Anyone who happens to be in NYC who reads thissite and would like to stop by, please do! There is no “fitting in” to worry about at all.

  2. Anonymous

    I just decided to saving for retirement! I’m 24 and it seems so overwhelming – what investments to buy, what type of account to use, etc. A lot of the advice is for people with a lot of money, and I’m only starting out with a few thousand, and putting in probably 500/month throughout the year. Help!!

    • Eleanor

      Congratulations! Do a bit of research about basic investing before you start; I like the Wall Street Journal personal finance page and some of the blogs that focus of frugality and saving. Typical advice basic advice is to (i) open an account that gives you tax benefits, either an IRA or 401(k), both of which have Roth versions, (ii) see if your employer has any retirement benefits, like matching your contributions, and take advantage of these, (iii) think about your retirement goals and risk tolerance (right now your goal might just be to get started saving, which is fine), and (iv) invest in a diversity of index mutual funds with low fees (Vanguard and Fidelity are commonly recommended as good places to do this).

      This is a high-level overview, but once you read a bit about investing, mutual funds, and retirement, the basic advice starts to repeat itself and it doesn’t feel so overwhelming.

    • Diana Barry

      Congrats on saving early – compound interest is your friend! :)

      Does your company/firm have a 401k or other retirement plan? If so, I would max that out first, or contribute as much to it as you can. Some companies match your 401k contribution, so definitely put in whatever is required to get the match first.

      If you don’t have a 401k, or are already maxing it out, then I would look at contributing to a roth or regular IRA. I like Charles Schwab or Vanguard for low-cost investing. You can stick your beginning contributions in an index fund. They also have good websites and people on the phone to help you through the initial stages of what account to open, how to contribute, etc.

    • Former Partner, Now In-House

      Good for you!

      For the time being, I would put the money in whatever tax advantaged account you have access to (401(k), IRA, Roth IRA) and invest it in either an index mutual fund or a target date mutual fund based on your age.

      Then I would start reading about personal finance. Some suggestions:

      – go to a local Barnes and Noble (or other large book store) and spend an hour or so looking through all the personal finance books until you find a couple that speak to you.

      – subscribe to www DOT learnvest DOT com and spend some time reading the resources on their site. They also have some good “boot camps.”

      – subscribe to “Money” or “Smart Money” or “Kiplinger’s.”

      The more you read about this, the better off you will be.

    • Sydney Bristow

      Look into opening a Roth IRA with Vanguard or Fiselity. The easiest thing to do is pick a targeted retirement fund with the year you expect to retire. It will automatically adjust the risk over the years with more risk now and less when you get closer to retirement. This year you can put in up to $5500. It’s easy to set up automatic transfers from your bank account as well. Setting up this kind of account takes about 15 minutes and is a safe bet while you take the time to learn as much as you want about investing (or if you don’t want to learn about it at all).

      Also check out the book I Will Teach You To Be Rich by Ramit Sethi. He explains things pretty well in language targeted at younger people without a ton of money.

      Do you have a 401k (or some other option) at work? The common wisdom seems to be to contribute to that up to the top point of an employer match before contributing to a Roth IRA.

      • PolyD

        Seconding both contributing to the 401K (which is pre-tax, so “less” is sort of taken out of your paycheck than you really contribute – I’m not explaining this great, but it’s a decent deal), and Vanguard. I moved a 401K from a job I left to Vanguard and they were so helpful and nice and made the process really easy. And my Vanguard account is doing pretty well right now!

    • Former Partner, Now In-House

      Interesting that the first few responses are so alike. Maybe we are just all older? I am mid-40s.

      • Sydney Bristow

        I’m only 30 but I read and listen to a lot of podcasts about personal finance.

        • Anon

          Reason #15643 I love this site. I’m in my 20s but would give the exact same response, based on what I’ve learned from threads here and the books and websites suggested by the Hive. This site is a great source of knowledge.

      • Eleanor

        I’m 29, but was in the same position as the OP a few years ago and did a bit of reading about basic investing then. The basic advice for introductory investing seems to be the same most places – about what we all recommended.

    • KC

      Congrats on starting to save!

      Does your company offer any sort of retirement savings program or match? If so, it’s worth asking HR for more information about enrollment.

      If your company does not have a program, you can open your own retirement account, like an IRA. There are different types depending on whether you’d like to save pre or post tax (ie. pay taxes when you withdraw money in retirement or now when you invest the money). Kat put together a post about some of the main types of accounts in the “Tales from the Wallet: Tax-Savvy Investments” (Google the title to get to the post).

      In terms of investments, the general advice is to diversify the assets you’re holding (ie. stocks, bonds, index funds, etc.). Since you’re younger, you can invest in “riskier” assets (that you would eventually transition into less risky assets as you get closer to retirement). There are some funds that do this for you (usually called “Target Funds”), but you can also do this yourself as you get more comfortable picking your portfolio.

      I’d suggest reading a few personal finance websites (WSJ, Learnvest, etc.) and a basic investment book to get comfortable with terms/concepts. A lot of the advice will start to get repetitive, which is a good sign that you’re absorbing knowledge :)

    • TBK

      +1 on the suggestions so far. Definitely your first priorities should be maxing out your 401K, then opening an IRA. If you get to the point where you’re maxing out your contributions to both of those, consider an index fund. Research shows that active money management rarely performs better (and can perform worse) than funds indexed to, say, the S&P 500.

    • Cornellian

      I’m 27 and was in your boat a few years ago and now I have about 48K saved. I would:

      1 make sure you have a small slush fund for unexpected expenses or unemployment
      2 Start making the largest contributions you can afford any 401(k) or equivalent plan you have access to, and for now throw it in a couple of funds with target retirement dates (ie 2040 or 2050)
      3 Beyond that, start an IRA online. I wouldn’t pay anyone to manage it until you have maybe 50k.
      4 As you start heading towards maxing out the IRA and the 401(k), start thinking about just having non-tax advantaged investments around, so you can start saving for whatever big thing is in your life next (house? marriage?)

    • Ellen

      Yay! Cat, I love this jacket, and it is not to expensive.

      As for the OP, It is great to save for retirment, and my dad is makeing me do that with my 401K. And the manageing partner has a seperate account set up for me that is releated to that but I forget what it is called. You should find out whether your manageing partner can do the same for you. I see alot of good advice on this websight, but you should realy go to the internet and look up some places like Charles Shwab or Merrrill Lynch. My brother in law, Ed, work’s there and he knows alot, but there are other peeople who are smart who should advice you on this stuff.

      Since I do not have a husband to do all this for me, my dad is handeling it. YAY Dad. But he wan’ts me to get married and he is lookeing at places in North Carolina to retire. If he move’s he said he will put the house in some kind of a trust arrangment for me and Rosa and her kid’s, and that way we will NOT have to pay some capital gain’s on it. So if you have a parent with a house, you should look at what this is about. I am starteing to get smart on taxe’s b/c the manageing partner has me researcheing Foreign Tax Reporting law. If the hive knows about this, help! Madeline told me she will NOT do any work until I breif her on my findeings, and she is the tax lawyer! FOOEY!

      Fred called to tell me he could NOT get ticket’s to Lion King, but do I want to go to a JETS game instead? FOOEY! I do NOT even watch JETS on TV–why should I sit in the cold with a bunch of neeanderthal’s barking for some guys to tackel each other. In DC, a guy took me to a game and it was SO BORING, and all he did was yell all the time. DOUBEL FOOEY! I would rather be shoppeing, or even cookeing!

      I am lookeing for a recipe for Turkekey for Thanksgiving. Is anyone else in the Hive prepareing a bird themselve’s or just buying pre-cooked? Myrna is comeing over to Rosa’s house and I do NOT want to disapoint her. YAY!

      • Godzilla

        Ellen, Ellen, ELLEN. You have to think STRATEJIKLY. If you go the Jets game, you get to OGEL men in tight pants. AND there will be plenty of non-neanderthals barking at the game. Maybe even your future husband. Don’t you want to get MARRIED????????

    • Anonymous

      Ditto to everyone else’s recommendations, but also good on you for starting so early. I swear, consistency and compounding are your friend and you will never regret starting saving early. Money gives you options.

  3. Equity's Darling

    I am never a fan of jackets like this on me- I have friends that wear them and look great, but I always feel like they age me. It also seems a little busy with the exposed gold zipper, pockets, larger zipper pulls, and what seems like leather trim around the zippers. I don’t even think I’d look twice at this in the store.

  4. Hopeless Guest

    I’m a young, 2d year associate at a law firm with about 100 attorneys. My firm is very social, with lots of lunches out and happy hours, and I have become good friends with other associates at the firm and am friendly with many of the partners.

    Recently my coworkers have begun inviting us to weekend social events, and I’m not always sure how to respond. Both my parents had intense social anxiety and never went to anything, not even my grandparents’ holiday dinners, so I haven’t had a lot of insight into how the post-college social world works. In the past month, I’ve accepted three invites: a) dinner for attorneys in our practice group and their spouses at senior partner’s home; b) 40+ person potluck/drinking party at junior partner’s home, about half people from work and half people I don’t know; c) 16 person holiday dinner party at associate’s house, with only one other person from work.

    1 – For each of these events, I’ve asked what I can bring and have gotten an assignment from the hosts (dessert, salad, etc.). Should I also bring a hostess gift, or is the food assignment a sufficient contribution?

    2 – Is a verbal thank you after the event sufficient, or should I send a thank you card? Fwiw, Event A was a verbal invite, while Events B and C were mailed invitations.

    3 – My sense is that when someone invites you over to their house, the polite thing to do is to then invite them over to your house sometime in the next few months. Would that hold true in all three situations here? If I do extend reciprocal invitations, do I need to match the size and formality of the original events? Is it bad if I only invite people from work, given that my husband and I don’t really know anyone else? Any ideas/tips for hosting a successful event, especially if senior associates and partners are invited?

    I love cooking and we have a pretty nice house for entertaining, but the last time we threw a party, in law school, I invited over 30 classmates and only had ONE guest show up. She was a great sport about it, but it was awkward and embarrassing and not something I’d want to repeat, especially if I’m inviting partners from my firm.

    Sorry about the barrage of questions… I really am a novice when it comes to this stuff. Are there books or websites that explain all the rules for entertaining and being entertained?

    • Em

      I’ll take a stab at answering some questions. I think books/website-wise, you might check out Miss Manners. She’s extremely practical and has updated her advice with the times. Otherwise:

      1) No, I think if you’re bringing food, you don’t need a host/hostess gift. If they tell you not to worry about it, a host/hostess gift is nice unless it’s a very casual party.

      2) A verbal thank you is fine, but few people are likely to take a written thank you amiss. I think it’s a nice thing to do, particularly if it’s a fairly formal event and particularly if a spouse who you don’t work with (and thus can’t thank personally at work the next day) was heavily involved in throwing the party. Personally, if it’s just a casual potluck or BBQ I probably wouldn’t write a written thank you; if it’s a seated dinner, it’s probably a nice idea.

      3) You’re not required to reciprocate generally, but this is 100 times more true if the original event was thrown by someone senior to you at work. I don’t think very many partners expect to be invited out socially by their junior associates. And they especially don’t expect to be formally entertained by them. However, if you wanted to have work people over for a dinner or party, you’re absolutely free to do so; don’t worry about making it an uber-formal event or about only inviting work people. Both are fine.

      • Diana Barry

        Agreed 100%. I would definitely send thank you cards in all cases, but not worry about reciprocating, particularly with the partners.

        • preg anon

          Same here. I make a habit of writing thank you notes for parties. I figure I’m one of the few, so it will be appreciated.

      • TBK

        I agree on everything except the thank yous. I’d would match the method of invitation with the method of thanking the host(s). So, verbal invite in the hallway at work = verbal thank you the next workday after the party; email/evite invitation = quick thank you email the next day; written and mailed invite = hand-written thank you, mailed to the host’s home. Does everyone do this? No. But given that people are often rude enough to not RSVP to parties (including weddings!), I wouldn’t use others’ behavior as a guide.

        • Anonymous

          +1 exactly on matching method of invite to method of thanks. Mailed invites definitely warrant a mailed/written card of thanks to me.

      • anon

        Bring the food, and a bottle of wine, or if you know the person a little better and like them (and don’t want to bring wine), maybe flowers or a little plant? I’m not big on hostess gifts except for holidays and more formal gatherings, but that’s just me. Yes on the thank you cards although I’m sure no one would hold it against you if it was only verbal or email (but they will like the notes).

        I would not feel you have to host your own large dinner party for this group, and I agree on the “inviting up.” Not necessary, could be weird. I would think about having just a few people over for dinner, more personal plans (so the plans are firm). Or go out to drinks with a few people. Casual is easier when you’re tense about it. I know how it is– I’m an only child and my parents are anti-social, as well.

    • rosie

      1 – I think you don’t need a hostess gift if you’re already bringing a dish, but a bottle of wine/cute cocktail napkins/olive oil couldn’t hurt if you’re more comfortable.

      2 – I think a written TY is nice in all cases, although a lot of people probably don’t do this. Send a couple of days later to reiterate how much you enjoyed the party.

      3 – My sense would be that if other associates don’t host practice group-wide events, it could be awkward for you to have one where you’re “inviting up.”

      • Cornellian

        I agree on all of these points, but especially 3. Ask if other associates want to grab drinks, or go to lunch with a partner, but I would really really not invite partners over. ever. This is NYC biglaw, so ymmv.

        • TBK

          In DC biglaw, my firm was really, really social (many of my vacations were with other associates) and when we were going out to grab drinks/lunch/etc., we often invited partners. They almost always turned it down, but sometimes came along for one drink (and paid for the first round) then left to let the “kids” party. I don’t think partners were ever invited to anything at anyone’s home, or that involved travel.

    • Hopeless Guest

      Thanks everyone! I’ll focus my hostess energy on planning a casual get-together for other 1/2/3 year associates, including the one who had us over for dinner at his house, and stop day-nightmaring about everything that could go wrong if I try to host a fancy dinner for the most senior partner in my practice group and his wife.

      • anon

        So funny– thinking back on my early days at my first firm, that would have given me day-nightmares, too.

    • goirishkj

      Can you ask a 3d/4th year what the young ‘uns normally do? That way if their is an unspoken rule specific to your firm culture, you are in the know. Otherwise, I generally agree with the rest of the advice you have already gotten. +10000 to the no “inviting up”. My firm was pretty social too (regional law in flyover country) and while partners might be invited out to drinks with the kids, partners were pretty much never invited to events held at homes. The only exception might be senior associates/junior partners who were close in age, but you aren’t in that situation yet as a 2d year.

    • Senior Attorney

      You’ve gotten good advice already.

      On the reciprocation issue, one way to handle this is to institute an annual event at your home, to which you can invite everybody who has extended hospitality to you plus anybody else you’d like to socialize with. Mr. Senior Attorney and I did a summer open house/BBQ for several years and it was well-attended and everybody really enjoyed it. I invited my staff, he invited his superiors, people came or not as they chose, and a good and reasonably stress-free time was had by all. You can do whatever works best for you. I know a couple who does a “First Sunday of Spring” event, and another who does a “Christmas drinks” event in December.

  5. Killer Kitten Heels

    Quick question – Jones New York: runs big? Small? TTS? For reference, in brands like Banana/J. Crew I tend to be a 4-6/S in jackets, but in Lands End/Old Navy/Gap/etc. I’m a 2-4/XS, and I’m debating whether to order the JNY rolled sleeve utility jacket that’s on sale in S or XS. Thanks!

  6. Tiger

    I have a second interview with a big firm in Atlanta. At the screening interview with a senior partner and senior associate, I called them by their first names. The recruiter sent me my schedule for this interview and used first initial last name (I.e J. Doe). So should I use first names? FWIW, the senior partner described their culture as less stiff than other firms and this interview us mostly people closer to my level. Thanks!

      • Aggie

        +1, The interviewing attorneys will likely never see the schedule. First initial, last name is probably for internal purposes. (IE – There may be three attorneys named Thomas but only one T. Jones.)

    • mascot

      I’d use first names. Whatever you did at the first interview was enough to get you a second interview.

    • NOLA

      A couple possibilities:

      1. You could say, as you begin talking, “May I call you X?” This could be a little awkward, but ok.
      2. You could call them Mr. or Ms. Lastname and let them take the lead with, “Please, call me X.”

      I would lean toward #2. I am pretty senior but I hardly ever address faculty by first name (at least in correspondence) unless I know them. Always Dr. So and So or Prof. So and So, until they answer me back with first name.

      • Anon

        I think academia is old school in this respect. In 10+ years as a corporate lawyer, I’ve only run across one American/US resident who wanted to be called “Mr.” Everyone else on both the firm and the client side went by first names. I added the US-qualifier because my German and Japanese contacts are more likely to want to be called by a title/last name.

        • LH

          I’m in law but would still call people Mr. X and Ms. Y in an interview – or more likely, in a thank you note after an interview since I’m not sure it would come up in the interview itself. Once you have a job, definitely call all your colleagues John or Sue but I think in the interview process its better to err on the side of being formal until they refer to themselves by first name (which to me includes signing an email “Best regards, Sue” as well as explicitly saying “Please call me Sue.”)

        • NOLA

          You’re right that academia is old school in this respect, but I guess what I was trying to say is that I don’t think anyone would ding you for being more formal and allowing them to correct you. As opposed to the other side, if you err on the more casual side and someone is offended that you’re being too casual/familiar.

          • Anon

            Fair enough. I do think a young law student or junior lawyer can appear even younger if she uses titles, but I think the worst that would happen is someone on the receiving end would be briefly taken aback. It can be risky to use someone’s first name before they introduce themselves because you might use the wrong name. E.g., use “Elizabeth” for a “Liz”

    • (Former) Clueless Summer

      Definitely first names. At our firm, using J. Doe in schedules, dockets, etc. is just standard but it doesn’t mean we refer or expect anyone to refer to us by anything other than first names. Last names would be very very weird…

    • Tiger

      Thanks, everyone! I’m pretty nervous since I don’t have the same qualifications as most of the attorneys there, so I don’t want something like this to affect my chances.

      • Anon

        Relax :) if you already passed the screening interview, then your qualifications made the cut. Now they’re looking for fit. Be yourself, be prepared, and hope it goes well!!

        (And yes to first names – I’m in Atlanta, former biglaw now inhouse, and last names would be weird).

  7. OHCFO

    Mentorship TJ: Many of you mention the concept of formal mentorship arrangements in your work environment. I have recently been assigned to mentor a newer employee who is struggling and whose immediate supervisor is resigning. For those of you who have had positive mentor/mentee relationships, what were the characteristics of those relationships that stand out as being worth replicating? Are there common pitfalls you would recommend working to avoid?

    • R

      Ask about their goals and background, and then tailor your advice/support accordingly. I give vastly different support to my mentee who wants to advance quickly but was the first in his family to go to college/ leave his rural hometown than I give to my mentee who just wants to make manager someday but has the social skills down pat.

  8. adding machine

    Repost from yesterday (thanks to those who already weighed in)

    Anyone have experience putting their lo and sons bag on top of a 4 wheel spinner suitcase and gliding the whole thing on 4 wheel through the airport? Does this make your bag too top heavy? If you have the bag standing still, will the whole thing fall forward?

    The models on the lo and sons website are using spinner suitcases in the video, but pulling the suitcase on two wheels, making me think my dream of gliding my suitcase and carry on through the airport might not work.

    I saw the coupon on Cap Hill Style, might pull the trigger if this set up seems to work.

    • Cb

      I don’t have a Lo & Sons but I do have two bags of a similar size with the slide over handle feature, a Samsonite overnight bag and an orange IKEA backpack (grad student stipend over here). I use both with 20 inch Brookstone spinner and it works great. There is a little bit of catch if both bags are really heavy but I don’t have problems with tipping. My mom has a really, really light spinner and I don’t know if having a slightly heavier bottom bag helps balance it a bit.

      • Blair Waldorf

        Ditto, do this all the time with a 4 spinner and it has never tipped or rolled away from me.

    • RR

      Neither my TT or my OG have tipped. I think they tend to sit pretty centrally even though attached to the handle because they have a nice flat bottom? In any case, tipping hasn’t been an issue. On my two wheel pulled suitcases, it can get a little heavy on the handle, but I actually think a four wheel would totally solve that issue.

    • Carrie Preston

      Hi, I replied late yesterday but I have one and use it on a spinner, it fits perfectly but cam make the whole set up heavy and harder to “glide” the way spinners do but I tend to pack heavy stuff in the omg (or og – I have the big one).

    • M-dash

      If it’s super heavy, it can be difficult to wheel on all 4 over carpet, but that can happen if I just overpack my wheel suitcase. I haven’t had any issues with it offsetting the suitcase’s balance and falling over.

  9. Relationship TJ

    Early TJ!

    I’d like advice about my relationship – when do you settle down and commit, and when do you start over in the hope of a better fit? Or, when is family a dealbreaker?

    I’ve been dating my boyfriend for about 4.5 years. He’s always been supportive and our relationship has made me happier than I’ve ever been before. BUT. Last May, he broke up with me for the summer because his family disapproves of our relationship strongly. They’re conservative and religious, and I don’t fit into their desired identity in many ways. They threatened to disown him if we stayed together, and the pressure got to be too much for him. Over the course of the summer, he realized his mistake and in September, I took him back. They know that we’re back together and have not disowned him, but are not exactly happy about this.

    We’re still struggling to get back to where we were before, but I am starting to trust him more and see the couple that we used to be. I know that if we stay together, he will make a great supportive partner and I could be very happy. But I also know that his family will never approve completely, and there will likely be cultural and religious conflict for the foreseeable future.

    I’m in my third year of law school, heading out to a different city after graduation to start a biglaw job. I don’t feel the pressure to make a decision about our relationship now. But even though I’ve never had a better friend, much less boyfriend, there’s a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that someone else might be a better match for me because of the family and cultural complications.

    Does anyone have experience with extended family or in-laws that have different values and/or disapprove of their relationships? How do you (and your partner) make it work?

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      It only works if your partner is going to be willing to: (a) call his family’s bluff when they make dumb threats (i.e. “We’ll disown you unless you break up with her!” — “Okay, cool, have a nice life, Mom & Dad, call me when you’re done being absurd”); and (b) back you completely in the event of family conflict directed at you (so when they attack you for whatever, he protects you by ending the conversation/leaving the event/whatever needs to be done to make it crystal clear that treating you poorly = treating him poorly = they don’t see/speak to you guys anymore).

      If he waffles, if he makes excuses for them, if he expects you to tolerate/overlook/forgive their abuse because “that’s just how they are/what they believe”, I think it’s a no-go. They’re entitled to believe/think whatever they want; they’re NOT entitled to inflict emotional harm on you because of said thoughts/beliefs. If he’s not going to enforce that line with them, I don’t see how he can be a good life partner for you (or anyone of whom they don’t approve).

      • Diana Barry

        +1. Have you talked about the breakup, his family, how you see things going forward? If you get married, would they not attend the wedding? Then if you have kids, how would the kids be raised (religion, culture, etc.)? What would happen at family/holiday celebrations? These things can all cause a LOT of conflict and so I think it would be best for you to figure them out first before getting engaged. If your boyfriend hasn’t thought about them, then he needs to.

        Example – I dated a guy who had clearly thought about all these things ahead of time – we would have to have 2 wedding celebrations, one in his culture and one in mine, and there would have to be many “appeasing” conversations with his parents, etc. We broke up because neither of us could deal with all the cultural differences – we were also in college, so very young.

        • Eleanor

          Diana Barry asks great questions. You talked about your boyfriend’s family’s values, but do you and your boyfriend share values?

        • OP

          Yes – good questions. We’ve talked about these things a lot.

          We’d have a very small religious marriage, and the a single secular wedding ceremony. I don’t know if his parents would come; I don’t think he knows either.

          We’d raise potential kids in his family’s (and his) religion. It’s vitally important to his identity. But, he does not have a conservative view of the religion and does not share the same religious values with his parents.

          We do share values at a base level – I’m not religious and don’t think that one needs to be to have those values, but he connects them to religion and I think that’s fine too.

          • Ru

            Please feel free to tell me if I’m way off base here but is your guy Muslim? And/or South Asian (or Arab)? Because that’s what it sounds like.

            Whether he is or isn’t, does your guy have siblings or cousins that you can befriend? It helps A LOT with religiously and culturally conservative parents for them to be bombarded on all sides by hearing how amazing and accepting and accommodating you are.

            If you decide that this is the relationship for you, you can do it. But it will take time and a lot of patience. Good luck.

          • OP

            Ru – Yes, he’s Muslim, and Arab, both of which I am not.

            Two of his siblings are on the same page with his parents, and one is apathetic (will not get involved). I get along well with his sister, but she also cut him off from talking to her kids because of our relationship for a while.

          • Marilla

            Ru, I’m dying of laughter here at your comment because I was sitting here wondering if they’re religious Jews. I guess we all see ourselves/our families when we hear about these situations.

            I agree with your excellent advice about befriending siblings, etc, and getting their take on the right path forward. I would just add one caveat to your last point though – if you BOTH decide that this is the relationship for you, you can do it. But if you’re 100% in, and he’s only occasionally 100% in, or 70% in, or in until he decides he really does prefer making his parents happy/carrying on tradition/not rocking the boat (insert as appropriate) over building a life with you, it will never happen and you’ll both just build up resentment and unhappiness.

            Good luck!

          • Ru

            Ah f%ck. I had a feeling he was Muslim once you said the children would be raised in his religion. LOL @ Marilla, I’m not surprised at all by our parallel conclusions.

            This isn’t going to be easy but it’s also not impossible. You may have an easier time once you are actually married and not in a relationship outside of marriage. More personal questions: are you Christian or Jewish? Do you plan on/are you open to nominally converting to Islam?

            The whole not being able to talk to his sister’s children is really f%cked up but they’re her children and she thinks she’s protecting her kids from sins (I’m projecting here).

            But, his being with you could “excommunicate” him from his family. And that is his decision. The whole filial obligation is huge in Arab and Muslim culture, so be prepared to deal with that.

            It might help you and him to hang out with more “Americanized” Muslims. I’m sure your law school has an MSA.

            And finally, if you’d like to talk more offline, I can be reached at hijabeng at gmail or at my tumblr (hijabeng dot tumblr dot com).

    • LilyB

      Is your boyfriend moving to the different city with you? Given the other issues in your relationship, I would be extremely hesitant about a potentially 3-year long distance arrangement.

      I would generally never advise someone to give their bf an ultimatum re: proposal, but (assuming you want to get married) given how long you’ve been dating, and his family issues, I would be reluctant to stay with him unless he gives you some kind of commitment, i.e. telling you he wants to marry you at some point in the not-so-distant future. At the very least you need some kind of verbal commitment to stick with you no matter what his family says/does. It’s not fair for your happiness to be at the mercy of his family or his fickleness.

      • OP

        We’re long distance now, and he would move to the new city with me.

        He would be completely on board with a proposal yesterday, at which point I trust that he would not leave me. I’m just not sure if I want to sign up for that given these issues, so a proposal from him to me now would just lead to a “maybe”. I’m in no hurry to get married (still pretty young).

        • LilyB

          That’s tough- it’s good he’s moving with you to the new city though, maybe it will give him some distance from his family’s demands. But you should consider whether you can see yourself long-term with someone whose family doesn’t like you. Do you have a strong family of your own? Do you think your boyfriend is someone who would be okay distancing himself from his family for a long period of time?

          • Killer Kitten Heels

            Geographical distance won’t cure boundary problems – it’ll only make it easier to ignore them until they rise to the level of REALLY EFFING HUGE. Respectfully, I don’t think moving to a new city together and getting engaged is the solution here. Boyfriend needs to demonstrate that OP is his #1 priority, and that he’s going to consistently, vociferously, zealously protect her from any and all blowback that comes from his family, over a long period of time, before they make any (theoretically) permanent vows. (Considering he broke up an otherwise-happy four year relationship based on their input, I highly, highly doubt he has any kind of track record at all of protecting OP/the relationship at all at this point.)

            What happens when they have children and his mom and dad want to “share their beliefs” with the kids? What happens if they shun the grandkids for not having the “right” beliefs? If OP won’t protect his girlfriend from his parents’ criticism/narrow-mindedness, he won’t protect his kids either. And that’s just not okay.

    • Anon88

      My parents did not approve of my husband. I’m from an Asian culture where education is very important. My husband is American, which they didn’t care about, but he did not go to college. The lack of a college degree was what they did not like.

      Things were really ugly between me and my parents and we ended up having a small wedding without my parents or my family. A few months after that, I reconnected with my mom and we re-established our relationship. About a year after our first wedding, my parents hosted a traditional Asian wedding for us.

      We’ve been married 14 years now and my parents love my husband. Thankfully things worked out for us.

      Based on what you said about your situation, his parents do not seem to be that flexible. Are you willing to deal with that conflict long term? Holidays may be difficult and stressful. What happens if/when you have kids?

      You say that you have a nagging feeling that someone else might be a better match. I’m inclined to say that you might want to trust your gut. He already broke up with you once over the pressure from his parents. If you get married, there may be other things he feels pressured to do by his parents where he puts them before you.

      Sorry, I wish I had a better answer. This is a tough situation.

      • Susedna

        Anon88 makes some very good points about his already showing his inclinations by breaking up with you when his parents demanded it.

        This is a very black mark on his track record. And one that he should have some pretty good answers for, and some good, believable action items to be demonstrated, to indicate that he would not pull another one of these again after you two got married. He needs to be “Team Us” not “Team MyParents, but we’ll occasionally throw some scraps to the OP.”

        Everything that Killer Kitten Heels said about his parents’ narrowmindedness and willingness to play hardball, plus his …questionable willingness or ability to stand up to them, sounds like a red flag to me.

      • anon in tejas

        My husband and I had a similar situation. They said that they did not approve of him because he hadn’t finish HS, and then it was because his parents were working class. And then… anyway, lots of reasons. We never broke up, but we decided that we were going to be a united front, around them and we have.

        Additional questions you should consider:
        — what happens if they want to forgive and forget? are you okay with that?
        — what happens if you guys stay geographically far away? Will you come back with him to visit? Will he be on his own?
        — will he/you want to tell his extended family about the marriage?

        I really lost my relationship with my family. We argued and fought for many years over this. My parents decided to come to my wedding, but didn’t go to our reception. They forbid me from telling any of my extended family. They said some pretty hateful things when my husband’s mother passed away, and in several other instances. They have decided over the years that they are coming around, but I haven’t gotten to where I have forgiven and forgotten. I am not sure that my husband will forgive them either. We spend time with them out of obligation, but the relationship is irreparably damaged.

        I choose my husband over my parents. It was very very hard. I am glad that I did it, and I think that the best revenge is to live well and happy.

        good luck.

    • Anon

      My view is biased because I broke up with my husband (very, very briefly — it lasted about 90 min) in part because of cultural differences and family/friends pressure. My situation is a little different because my husband and I are both white Protestants from east coast middle class families, and I gather your boyfriend is a different ethnicity and religion from you. But I’m a northeasterner and my husband is from the south and, honestly, there are some serious pressures/animosity between those two regions, and it was enough to make me doubt whether we should be together. I think, in some ways, his breaking up and coming back are acutally positive, not negative. Being with a partner from a different background can challenge your identity in unexpected ways, and so can the threat of being disconnected from your own background. If you’ve never been in a position that challenged these assumptions before, it can feel overwhelming and can make you feel like you’re going to lose yourself. It can be scary to get to a point where you feel like if you go forward, you can never go back to who you were or where you came from. Yes, being with someone for the long term (especially marriage) means taking that step and being with that person, absolutely 100%. But I also sympathize with how scary it can be when you feel like you have to choose. I don’t think it’s completely unreasonable that he tried to pick his parents first. Some of us may have no trouble giving up on where we came from, but, especially if his family’s origin had been important to his identity in the past. In the end, however, when he tried actually choosing his family over you, he realized that was the wrong choice and you were more important to him. So, yes, he needs to show that he’s ready to take that step and stand by you, even if it means his parents disown him. And he needs to make the commitment to do that, and show you with actions over a period of time that he means it, even if that means a long or postponed engagement, but I’m not sure that means you should disregard everything else about the relationship, which sounds like it’s really good.

      • Anon in NYC

        +1. You say you’re young – I’m assuming he is as well. In my early 20’s (and as the oldest child) it was very hard for me to break with my parents’ expectation for my life… and in my 30’s it’s easier but there are still moments when I want their approval.

        Yes your BF needs to better develop a backbone, but frankly, I think the fact that he got back together with you in spite of his parents threat to disown him is indicative of his commitment to your relationship. By all means take your time and make sure you can trust him. Have a lot of conversations with him about the pressure he faces from his parents. Ask him how he sees this playing out for the rest of your lives. The most important thing is for you and your BF to be on the same page when it comes to his family, and for you to be reassured (repeatedly, through his words and his actions) that he has your back.

    • Samantha

      Hi, Everybody has made excellent points here. I would be more forgiving of his lapse (breaking up) given his relative youth and other factors, and mainly given that he got back with you so seems to know his mind now.

      A very close friend of mine was in a similar situation – overcoming strong parental opposition on religious grounds can happen, and it can end well.
      My friend came from a Muslim family who seemed pretty liberal while she was growing up, but not when it came to her decision to marry a non-Muslim but not-religious guy. Case in point – I’m not Muslim and spent plenty of time at her place as kids/teenagers and her parents were lovely to me, so no bias there at all. But dating/marriage is a whole nother deal I think. The guy was eligible in every other way (educated professional, nice person etc.)

      I think this dichotomy was partly because her parents were part of a community and worried about being excommunicated or at the very least shunned/looked down upon by her father’s brothers and their small community/mosque. Scenes ensued. Once they were secretly meeting in a restaurant when her father stormed in, took her back home, and forbid her from seeing him again (she was 21 and in gradschool/living at home then). They got secretly married and her parents did not talk to her for a year or so after. Now, several years later, all is fine and forgiven – they are fond of him even.

      What I think worked was (1) she always remained loving with them, but firm in her decision (2) he was eligible apart from his religion (3) she wore them down and in the end they had no choice. I think it comes down to the two of them being sure that they were right for each other – there were moments of doubt but they talked those through as a couple and faced the challenges together.
      Your case may be a little easier because the man in the relationship is Muslim (should not make a difference but does), and you intend to raise any kids in his religion and so on. So I think when they come around it will be fully. But to get them to that point, you guys have to hold firm. So you have to ask yourself and him whether he has the conviction and the fortitude, or not.

      • Ru

        Yes, this anecdote is a very common story across many Muslim households. Lots of dramas, fighting, silence, and then all is well.

    • MissK

      I went through a similar situation with my then-boyfriend, now husband. His parents were great when we first got serious, but when we got serious enough that we started spending time with both families, his Dad started changing. Making up lies about me and telling other family members on their side blatantly untrue stores; saying awful things about how I was forcing my boyfriend to break ties with his family; he even went so far as to imply that because my husband bought nice gifts for me I was just pursuing him because I knew he was going into a lucrative field, and on one occassion lied about something MY parents had done. He was just generally unaccepting of me, and roped my husband’s sister into the same mentality.

      I’m not a fan of ultimatums, and I would never have asked my husband to choose between me and his family but I finally had to take a stand and basically said that unless I felt like he was supportive of me and was willing to stand up to his Dad and call him out on blatant lies, I couldn’t see our relationship lasting.

      We were also lucky in that my husband’s brother, who is older by 8 years, had gone through the EXACT same thing with his wife. So, in your situation I would recommend seeking out the support of a family member. Also, you have to feel confident in your SO’s willingness to defend and support you, otherwise it’s just never going to work.

      My FIL has a lot of personal issues, and still sometime goes out of his way to try and create drama between family members, but knowing my husband is on my side and that we have my BIL and his wife to talk to his a huge help.

      I guess I would say that you need to really talk to your SO about EVERY detail of this situation, because as you get more serious and move toward marriage/future/children etc., it only becomes harder.

    • Pest

      Dump him. You have been together for 4.5 years and he already broke up with you once. Family disapproval of a relationship is only workable if both parties are 100% committed to not letting it interfere, and he demonstrated that that’s not the case for him. Do you really want to go through an entire marriage with someone who’s family disapproves of you? Do you want to be forced to raise children in a religion that’s not yours to satisfy grandparents who disapprove of their son’s marriage to you? You deserve better than this.

    • Anon for this

      Deal breaker. I knew a couple who were like this and she ended up incredibly miserable. My paranoia is based on that and having an ex-husband who’s family all be disowned him because of our relationship. The tension made him miserable.

      That said, my brother’s in laws hated (yes, really) him at first. It took a couple of years and marriage longer as you and your bf have been together for them to come around. But they finally did. But their issues was race, not religion.

      So the big question is, how long is long enough for them to accept you? What if that is never? Will it hurt your bf and do you really want to live that way? The break up speaks volumes to me.

      • Killer Kitten Heels

        This is a good point – it’s not just about setting boundaries *now,* it’s about whether whatever boundaries you and your boyfriend mutually agree to set now are boundaries you both can comfortably live with forever. His parents/siblings may very well come around – many people’s families’ do warm up over time, as some of the anecdata here has shown – but you have to make your decisions assuming the worst-case scenario (which is that they never come around and his relationship with his parents and the disapproving siblings is frosty/non-existent forever), rather than the best.

  10. amelia earhart

    Thank you for the hugs, good thoughts and rawrs yesterday about my mom. We got good news and all anxiety is alleviated. Thank you for being such a compassionate community!

    • Marilla

      Hurray! I didn’t comment but I am so happy to hear this news. My family is experiencing our first encounter with cancer and the constant up and down/good news-bad news cycle is so hard to deal with. I’m so happy you’ve received good news. :)

    • ss

      Fantastic! I was nudged by your post yesterday to do something nice for my mum, so hopefully you two have something special on to celebrate your good news as well.

    • Susedna

      Late to this (as I haven’t read or posted in about a week, but feels like eons to me…)

      But so, so, very glad your mom got good news! This makes my morning. :-)

    • In the Pink

      Smiling happy sighs for you all. Hope that answers were made clear and it’s all smooth from now on!

    • Samantha

      So glad to hear that! I didn’t post either but was thinking of you and your mum!

  12. A

    Are there any good “outfit of the day” blogs for a work wardrobe that you follow? I read 9to5chic, but that is still far too fashion-y for my office, which is between business casual and formal but definitely leans toward formal.

    I had been likely the classy cubicle, and will still probably read it, but I feel like she’s getting more fashion forward as well. I think the shirt she has on today is too low for pretty much any office. I’m looking for some (appropriate) inspiration!

    • Sparrow

      I like Outfit Posts, Mix and Match Fashion, Wardrobe Oxygen, 26 and Counting, Hello Gorgeous.

      • Miz Swizz

        Second Outfit Posts. Sometimes her skirts are a bit short but otherwise I like her aesthetic. I especially like her color combos because that’s something I still struggle with unless I see it on someone else first.

        Going to check out the others too!

      • HSAL

        Just added the ones I hadn’t heard of to my feedly. My favorite for years has been Wardrobe Oxygen.

    • preg 3L

      I like Putting Me Together, even though it’s definitely on the casual side of business-casual, and Franish, which is probably too young (and she’s in medical school, so even though I think her outfits would generally be business casual appropriate, she’s not wearing them to an office).

    • AIMS

      I signed up for StyeUp Daily emails (they email you an outfit & weather forecast night before, 5 days a week), but I’m sort of meh on their picks. You’re supposed to be able to rate the outfits so that they get a better sense of what you like but I always forget my password and never manage to do it. But maybe give it a shot?

    • Anon

      Seriously? I just checked out that blog and her shirt is fine, in my opinion. I can see not liking it but it is hardly clutch the pearls.

      • Anonymous

        I agree. I thought her shirt looked completely fine and well within the bounds of what I would wear to the office. I was expecting to see major cleavage and its just a v-neck blouse.

      • Orangerie

        Eh, I think it looks less scandalous on her because she seems to be relatively small in the chest area. That shirt would be all kinds of inappropriate on anyone over an A cup.

      • lrh

        I have to agree with A – that’s a pretty low cut shirt and, in my opinion, not office appropriate due to the depth of the V. But, perhaps my perception is skewed a bit since I have a larger chest than the blogger and am more sensitive to that. Whereas you just see flat skin in her photos, in real life that would be an incredibly revealing top on my DDs. However – I do really like that black shirt for a Saturday evening date!

      • Anon

        I think it’s too low – it’s almost halfway to her waist. It’s a plunge neck, and even though she’s flat-chested and doesn’t have any cleavage, it still looks weird.

    • Banconpancakes

      Wow, I just noticed she actually has different nail colors to coordinate with every outfit. Are there really people who change their nail colors every day? That seems so labor-intensive!

      • A

        I’m a huge fan of hers — she wears the same color a bunch and she doesn’t post every single day. I have a friend who’s a fashion blogger and she photographs a bunch of outfits at a time and alternates so it might seem like the nails change each day but if you follow along that’s not actually the case.

    • Anon

      I think the skirt is fine today but she lost me when she wore wool “business” overalls. WTF?

      • anon

        There are a couple of decent outfits, but most of it is slightly fug. Lotsa plaid, polka dots, and pink going on, kinda like Laura Ashley and Kate Spade got high and babies with the Brooks Brothers.

        • anon-oh-no

          I love, love, love her style. I think she looks better than 99% of the women i see wondering around (and while I would not wear overalls to work, the outfit is super sleek, in a fashion forward sort of way). I get not loving every outfit, but Im quite surprised you said her outfits are “slightly fug.” I cant imagine what you think looks good

          • Ashley

            THANK YOU. Her style is AMAZING I’m so freaking obsessed. You guys don’t lik ethe overalls? I absolutely LOVED them!! My friends and I were drooling. But if you don’t like them — Who cares? She clearly lives in NYC where overalls are super trendy and very in right now. I loved how she took that trend and showed how you can wear them in an office… but you don’t have to! Not sure whyyy you would judge that blog with hundreds of amazing beautiful posts just because you don’t like one random outfit!

        • Anonymous

          She’s like a New York version of that Already Pretty blogger. Something a little too Jcrew + twee + overly done up.

      • Alanna of Trebond

        Yes — I just started looking through it and I cannot figure out where she works that these outfits would be appropriate. I think 9to5chic is great though.

        • Ashley

          She talks all about how she tries to mix it up for people that work in tons of different offices! It’s not supposed to be just for one particular job.

    • Ashley

      I also do not think that “Classy Cubicle” shirt is good for work, unless you work in fashion or retail. For traditional business — not a chance.

      Open Vent Tag

      My beef with the blogs I have tried to follow are the same as some of the other posters have noted and things like crazy short skirts, skin tight clothes, cutesy or fashionista-like outfits. That just does not work for me. Ironically, most of these women are married, but they dress like they are (more or less) desperate for attention and/or a date.

      I would love a daily look blog for BUSINESS PROFESSIONALS that put creating an impression of smart, credible and professional way, way before fashionable or cute. In fact, cute is for little girls; I want nothing about me to say I am struggling to leave childhood!

      I get expressing individualism. I get it. But I don’t want to look like an idiot doing it. And what a lot of senior management types think when they see turquoise high heels, bright clashing colors, mini-skirts, spray painted on Capri pants and low cut shirts in the business office is not a like mind worth of promotion to their level. Being a “fashionista” is likely to work against, not for you, unless you are in an office/industry that celebrates that.

      Close Vent Tag

    • Yellow

      Aquatalia are the single most comfortable shoe brand for me. Even the boots will heels are comfortable after a 12 hour day. It’s amazing.

      Go try them on though- I’m usually a size 11 and am a size 9.5 in the pair I bought most recently. I think they run really big to account for people putting big socks inside in the really cold climates.

      Also, weatherproof suede is hard to beat.

      • Frugal doc..

        Wow – thanks for this. I’m sure the pair I ordered will be too big then. I am a 9.5 in shoes, and I ordered 10 in these boots because that was the only size close to mine in these boots (on sale).

        Thank goodness for Nordstrom’s return policy.

        I will keep looking for my pair of Aquatalias…..

    • posey

      I second the comment about Aquatalia’s comfort, even on the boots with heels. I have a pair of booties with heels from them, and based on comfort I’m thinking about taking the plunge on a pair of boots with a heel.

      And I think those are fine for work – I’m wearing a pair of Aquatalia boots today with a dress to my business casual law firm.

      • Anon

        To use Susie’s comment as a jumping off point –

        Has anyone seen any good, sleek, flat knee high boots? I’ve found plenty of business-cas appropriate heeled pairs with sleek lines, no adornments, etc, but all the flat ones I find look outdoorsy/casual.

        Anyone seen a good pair?

        • zora

          You don’t mention your budget, that will make a big difference, too.

          Basically, I’d go to sites like Nordies and Zappos where you can set up a search by heel height & by color & by shaft height and then you can also set your size and that will let you search through a lot of options pretty quickly.

          If you have more to spend, look at Cole Haan, Clarks and Kate Spade brands especially.

          If you are looking in the <$150 range (like me) do the same search at DSW and keep searching as new stuff comes in. I have found good ones from Ecco and Nine West in that price range.

      • Frugal doc..

        Thanks for this.

        This was also my fear. I generally stay away from anything that has a buckle or screams riding boots. I am being pulled by my desire for Aquatalias and these were the best of the ones on sale at Nordstrom’s.

        • Ashley

          I kill myself on buckles when I cross my legs. So I look for sleek boots with no adornments at all. Plus they pair with more if they are relatively plain.

  14. churchmouse

    I have a weird managing-up problem: I need to come up with some better strategies for managing my minister.

    I am on the board at my progressive church. My minister is, to put it frankly, a disaster. He has been in service at this church for several years and has announced his intentions to resign from ministry at the end of this year. Among other things, he: attacks people who disagree with him, refuses to take criticism, takes great offense from standard operating practice (like circulating notes on who agreed to do what at a meeting), is paranoid, consciously alienates leaders and donors, tries to bully people who don’t work in lockstep with him, threatens to sue people who criticize him, routinely announces that he has no confidence in the elected representatives of the congregation, and so on. It’s a nightmare and we are all counting the days until he leaves. (Literally. There’s a party already being planned.)

    That said, I need to make it through the rest of the year without either a) quitting in disgust or b) starting a fight with him. Any tips? His behavior makes it very hard to address any of this in a mature way, but I’m going to go nuts if I just let him continue to run roughshod over us.

    • Marilla

      Is the end of the year Dec 31, or June/July? If it’s two more months, I would develop coping/ignoring strategies, and focus your energies on recruiting and orienting a new minister.

      • Diana Barry

        Is there a way to cut him out of the loop on some things? Have mailing list of just the vestry/church leaders and not the minister? If a new or interim minister has been picked, is there a way to cc him or her on emails, or would he not change his behavior even then?

        I think you need a few people who are willing to be the “bad cop” and call him on his BS. Have a sit-down and call him on the behavior and make clear that this is NOT ACCEPTABLE. Could you fire him earlier than the end of the year?

        Also, the anthropological approach may work here too – “oh, he’s ranting about an Area 51 cover-up, how interesting”, or what have you.

        • churchmouse

          We’ve tried cutting him out of the loop on some things–especially on things that aren’t really his business–and when he discovers that progress is being made on those areas, he goes into a screaming rage about “secret meetings” and how we’re not engaging in “shared ministry”.

          And firing him is more trouble than it’s worth–we’d wind up having to pay severance and he would probably try to sue for wrongful dismissal. (He’s threatened this before.)

          • Diana Barry

            Eh. If you are getting things done, I would find the person who doesn’t mind the screaming fits to take him for a walk until he calms down. Just don’t listen to him until he stops yelling. It’s kind of like dealing with a toddler tantrum – “John, we can’t understand what you’re saying when you yell. Please calm down and then come talk to us.”

    • Former Partner, Now In-House

      It could be worse. It’s less than 2 months and you know that he is leaving. Plus, you all know he is toxic, so you have co-commiserators.

      A colleage from my former firm who used to bully me relentlessly is about to join a board on which I already sit. We have 3 year terms. And everyone thinks my former colleague is great. As I said, your situation could be worse.

      • churchmouse

        That sounds awful. Can you say anything to the other people on the board?

        Unfortunately, Reverend Toxic is with us until the summer. I can’t wait until we get to the less-than-two-months mark!

        • Former Partner, Now In-House

          Other people on the board have not worked with this person before, so they have not been exposed to the rants at staff and backstabbing of colleagues. Also, this person works at a “big, important firm” and is thus seen as a “big, important person” and a potential source of referrals when cases are too small for his/her firm or there is a conflict. My single comment that we ought to be concerned about how staff (and we) would be treated was brushed off in a way that clearly told me no one would take it seriously. Right now, I am hoping that the person will behave better with this audience.

    • R

      Could you have a meeting to discuss his transition plan? Come up with expectations (for him, the board, parishoners, whathaveyou) and procedures, and document them. Ask him to write up his suggestions for improvement once he has left – identify the problems he sees, what the potential consequences are, and recommend 2-3 potential solutions with action steps. Encourage him to think broadly – attendance, service order, community involvement, donations, yearly program schedules, etc. This makes it look as if you value his input, but you don’t have to act on it when he’s gone. And it keeps him busy and focused.

      To give him time to do this, suggest a rotating guest minister program where once a month, someone else gives a sermon. I attended a small rural church that was without a minister all the time, so we had 5-7 leaders in the church who could step in and give a sermon when needed. This is a good way to develop leadership skills in the congregation, and fill gaps when needed. If your current minister wants to be involved, he can suggest a theme/topic/verse for the week, or even give a seminar on how to prepare a sermon or what makes a good sermon or whatever. Again, it’s just suggestions that your guest ministers don’t have to follow.

      • R

        This has the added benefit of any time he starts complaining, undermining, etc, you can just reply “I can’t wait to read your thoughts on that in the report!” or “I bet that section in your report will be HUGE!” and then change the subject.

  15. I'm Just Me

    I really like this jacket, but would like it more in “not black” because I am trying to get away from wearing so much black, especially close to my face.

  16. Cb

    Can I squee? After near constant travel since 1 August, I am going home tomorrow. Although we have a litany of visits and family obligations, I don’t have to pack a suitcase or get on a plane until mid-February.

  17. Yellow

    I need some styling advice. I just bought this pair of shoes: “Christian Louboutin Mistica Low-Heel Calf Hair Red Sole Pump Leopard” and I’m obsessed. Outside of work, I think of leopard pretty much as a neutral and use it to make otherwise boring outfits a little more fun. When I roll out of bed on a saturday and throw on my black jeans, black t shirt, black sweater, some leopard (on shoes, or a bag, or a belt) makes it like I actually got dressed. Are there limitations on what I should wear these with to work?

    I was hoping to low, chunky heel would make them more work appropriate. I think I’d be fine wearing them with otherwise conservative outfits to the office (black/brown/camel sheath dress or suit type of clothes). Does the red sole make them too much? What else would you pair them with for work besides solid black/brown/camel?

    • Bonnie

      I wear leopard print with all warm solid colors so you can add red and purple to your list.

    • posey

      Those are some amazing shoes. Very know-your-office but I wear CLs to work all the time and I don’t think it’s a huge deal. People will know you spend a lot of money on shoes, and may judge you for that, but the fact is that you do spend a lot of money on shoes, and haters gonna hate.

      Purple dress/skirt, black pantyhose or tights, and those shoes looks adorable in my mind. I can also see red working, although more of a burgundy than a strawberry.

    • Senior Attorney

      I love leopard with red. Also, FWIW, I wore my leopard shoes yesterday with a winter white skirt, cobalt blouse, and black blazer and everybody I met fell all over themselves complimenting my outfit.

      • TO Lawyer

        I was going to suggest cobalt too!

        Also – I’m so jealous of your shoe acquisition.

    • Yellow

      I love all these ideas! Thank you! I have a purple dress that I usually only wear with nude heels- maybe I’ll break it out tomorrow and pair it with the leopard!

  18. Negotiation help

    I may have to negotiate salary today for a new position. I’m in information technology and moving from underpaid academia to a private company, and salary levels for my career track aren’t really posted outside of government jobs (glassdoor, etc don’t have much information). I’m pretty young (24) so I don’t have a ton of experiencethat I ccan use to negotiate, but I do have a good idea what the position would be worth in the public sector. Any ideas or suggestions for what I should research? I’m in San Francisco if it matters.

    • Anon

      Comp in IT in the Bay Area will vary based on the kind of company. See if you can get data points from friends/coworkers but I’d ask for more base salary than offered at an established company, more grants/options, at a startup, more time off anywhere. Good luck.

      • Negotiation help

        Thanks. It’s a very established, very large company that has a tech dept (not a tech only company). I’m just not sure how to go about asking since I can’t really say, X is paying X or my skill X deserves more money (since that’s why get the job. Just say “I feel the position deserves X?”

        Vacation I can definitely do since I had seriously ridiculous benefits at my academia job. But should I choose vacation or salary, or go after both?

        • hellskitchen

          You could simply say “The range that I am comfortable with is XX-YY; is there room to get the base salary to that level?” You don’t have to necessarily give a reason or rationale unless they push back. But most companies do operate on the assumption that you will negotiate. I recently got a new job and I was very worried about negotiating. I simply said “I was hoping the base would be X; is that feasible” and the HR person immediately said, sure, we can bring it up to that. Way easier than I anticipated. If stock options are in the mix, make sure you bring up those in the same conversation.

          Also go for both vacation and salary. Get the salary negotiation wrapped up and then say, can we discuss other benefits? Be more open to negotiating there – if they are unable to offer more vacation, ask if you can work from home at times or ask for a budget to attend conferences etc. If you had opportunities to do prof development and go to conferences in academia, you can say you want to make sure you continue to sharpen your skills.

          • Negotiation help

            You are awesome. I’m pretty comfortable with that wording; I think I can handle that. Did you ask for a significant increase?

          • Niktaw

            One caveat: if you specify range, XX-YY, the company will offer you XX or XX+1.

          • hellskitchen

            The base raise wasn’t huge but I also asked for relocation which they gave so overall increase was significant. To Niktaw’s point, if there is a risk that giving a range will make them give you at the lower end of the range, then perhaps you could say (as an example) mid-60s or high-80s or something like that. They might give you 64 instead of 66 but you will still be in the neighborhood of where you want to be

    • Anon

      Look up similar jobs at other companies. Job postings should have salary ranges on them.

  19. 3L BigLaw Future

    TJ. . . I need advice about which practice group to pick when I go back to my firm:

    Group A is the practice area that I think I want to be in the future. I believe that the work for the first few years will be more mundane than the other group, but the work I will get when I am more “in charge” is something I think I will like. Concerns I have about this group is that there are relatively many senior associates and the practice group is slow/not growing, so it may be a while before I get to be doing that advanced work. Also, the partners do not seem especially concerned with being mentors and comments from people suggest one is sexist.

    Group B is a practice area that I think will be more interesting in the early years, but the end goal is not something I’ve ever wanted for myself, and actually gives me anxiety. However, I have really clicked with many of the people in the group, and I know for a fact that one of the counsel has already advocated for me, both formally and informally. Downside is that one of the partners, though nice, is hard to work for (he might have OCD or something).

    Which is less irrational- picking a group based on what I want to do 10 years out when most attys don’t make it that long in BigLaw? Or picking a group based on an advocate who could always leave the firm?
    In your experience, how important is the work vs. the people?

    Thank you!

    • Anon

      I’d pick the area that will transition easily to in-house work so you have more options in the future, so employment law, corporate work, basically anything but general litigation.

    • Statutesq

      I’d pick based on what you want to do in 10 years. I’m at the 5-year mark and picked the practice area where I’d get great mentoring/significant experience thinking: litigation is litigation–I can switch. Turns out it’s pretty easy to get pigeon-holed early, especially when you are doing significant work. Now I’m ready to move on to what I really want to do and finding it extremely difficult.

      • TBK

        This. The first 1-2 years of practice are pretty fungible. You’re basically just learning how to be a lawyer. But you generall need to stick it out 3-4 years to be really valuable to other employers. While switching practice groups may be an option after a year or so, you will lose all the good will and reputation you’ve aleady built up in your exisiting group. I would go with the practice you still want to be in (whether at that firm or elsewhere) 10-15 years from now. I wouldn’t worry too much about the number of senior associates or growth at this firm. If you decide you want to do the firm thing long term, you can always lateral to another firm that has better partnership potential for you (which is why a lot of peopl lateral). If you decide to leave and go in-house or to another organization after a few years, the fact that the department is top-heavy will be meaningless then, too.

    • mascot

      Is what you want to do 10 years out only available in BigLaw? I’d be a little concerned if you are going to a practice group that is really slow with no signs of recovery. It’s going to be harder to make your hours. A couple of general thoughts to keep in mind, don’t base decisions just on the partners. You’ll probably get a lot of work from the more senior associates and they can provide a lot of mentoring too. Same for cross-group mentoring. There are still some learning opportunities.

    • Diana Barry

      This is a hard choice. What about the end goal of group B gives you anxiety?

      Keep in mind that the partners are probably there to stay, while the counsel might not be.

      I picked based on practice area. The work is very interesting to me. I was deciding between a more niche area and corporate, and corporate stuff is just SO BORING to me. No regrets, even though the biglaw partners I worked for were jerks.

    • posey

      The people are more important, 100%. 95% of the work you do in any practice area is the same (and boring and mundane, even in “interesting” practice areas). The people make all the difference.

      • JJ

        Agree so much with this. Being a baby lawyer is hard enough. If you’re in a practice group where the senior associates and partners aren’t strong advocates or mentors, you won’t be successful. That’s just a fact in Biglaw. If you want to succeed in Biglaw, you need partners in your group giving you work, advocating for you, mentoring you, and generally being supportive. Go where the work and mentors are and then switch later if you want to and you’ve built up credibility.

      • MU JD

        Also agree 100%. I started in MidLaw and the partners and senior associates were not of the mentoring mind. I was miserable. Moved to SmallLaw and work with some amazing lawyers who go out of their way to teach.

        Good luck!

    • 3L BigLaw Future

      OP here:

      Wow, thank you for all the input! So much to think about. . .

    • Sutemi

      There are things that certainly gave me anxiety 10 yrs ago that I handle with ease now. Are you sure that you can’t grow over a few years into being comfortable with those duties or are they duties you find tedious and drudgery?

    • Romey

      I would NOT pick a practice group based on the people. People move around all the time. I picked a practice group based on the people in that group and from my summer associate time to starting as a first year, the group was about 70% different people!

    • TO Lawyer

      Also – what I thought I wanted to do when I started at my firm and what I actually want to do now after 2 years are vastly different. I never would have chosen my practice area (or rather one of my practice areas) but I am so lucky I did not land the other jobs I was trying to get.

  20. Cardigans

    Does anyone have any recommendations for good quality cotton/cotton blend cardigans? Everything seems to have wool/angora/other things that make me itchy, or are thin or “tissue” weight so they are easily stretched out. Cashmere blends are okay but not 100%.

    My favorite cardis are the Claire from J Crew Factory, but they only come in 3/4 length sleeves. Too bad, because they come at a fantastic price and are very sturdy. TIA!

  21. Unfortunate inheritance

    I just inherited about $10k from a beloved family member who passed away, and as I’m in my mid-20’s, I’m trying to figure out whether I should stick it into a retirement fund or invest on a 5-year timeline to have it available to contribute to a down payment. Thoughts?

    • MH

      You can always do half and half! I think it mainly depends on how much you’re already contributing to retirement. If nothing, I would use this to jumpstart some savings. But, if you’re already putting money into an IRA or 401K pretty regularly, I would lean more toward the down payment.

    • Abby Lockhart

      I would put it in a Roth — half for 2013, half for 2014. As I understand it, you can take it out without penalty down the road if you decide to spend it on a house or in the event of an emergency. For me, having a retirement fund growing now would be the best thing for my psyche as to encouraging other fiscally responsible behavior. I would treat that money as off-limits retirement funds. Then I’d start saving for the down payment monthly because that is the kind of habit that will make one a responsible homeowner and generally fiscally sound to make the purchase.

  22. need out of hair rut

    I need ideas for hair style inspiration to take to the salon later today. I have longish brown hair with layer but no bangs, and it’s fine but it’s been the same for YEARS now. I blow dry it somewhat straight but not perfect, if I let it air dry it’s a wavy mess that looks like an 80s perm. My hair is too wavy and frizzy to go very short– it would turn into a triangle of frizz if anyone other than a stylist does it. I’m thinking of taking off a few inches for sort of a shoulder length cut with layers. Can anyone think of a celebrity who has a good cut like this? I need to make sure she doesn’t cut my hair into the “Rachel”. It must be my hair type (poufy), but it starts to look like that really easily.

  23. hellskitchen

    PSA for nursing mamas: if you are busty and looking for a nursing bra, I highly recommend the le mystere s#xy mama 163 nursing bra. It is AMAZING in looks, support, and functionality. I had another le mystere nursing bra but it lost it’s shape very quickly. The 163 is a real workhorse. I am a 34 G and it gives me great support without being too constricting. You can find lucky sizes on ebay for $25 but I also got additional ones from Amazon for $40.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks! I just ordered one from eBay. I’m not going to be nursing until February, but I’ve grown out of so many bras that need replacing, and it doesn’t make sense to replace them with non-nursing bras. Can I wear nursing bras before I’m nursing or does that not make any sense? Either way, I’ll have it. It was only $25 on eBay.

      • tesyaa

        You can wear non-nursing bras during pregnancy, sure. I had the opposite problem, being AA and needing to wear regular bras even when nursing (could not find tiny nursing bras).

      • Anon

        I wish I had worn nursing bras while pregnant! I suffered through all sorts of ill-fitting regular bras until the end, when I finally tried wearing a nursing bra and it was insanely comfortable, stretchy, and supportive. All that wasted suffering!

  24. ANON

    My husband and I got into a huge fight last night over….his facial hair. Ridiculous, I know. He grew a beard a few weeks ago and I gently tried to convince him to shave it by saying “That beard covers your handsome face, will you please shave it?”. I left town for a week for work and came home to the beard. Then last weekend he shaved it down to a mustache. It looks gross, and I mean really gross. I thought he was just going to wear it around the house on Sunday and then he wore it to work on Monday and still has it. I think he’s just being stubborn because he knows it bothers me.

    What it comes down to for me is that I am absolutely not attracted to him with this mustache. It grosses me out. Last night I had had enough and had to tell him how I felt. It ended in a huge fight with me crying and sleeping in the spare room.

    He said he wants to take me out to a nice dinner on Friday night and I said I will not be going if the stache is still around. I am totally embarrassed for him for wearing this mustache around. Am I being completely unreasonable???

    • Yes

      Is he doing it to support Movember? Maybe cut him a little slack if so. My husband is doing it this week for his office. He looks dumb, but he said he’ll shave it by the weekend.

      • ANON

        I think it may be for Movember. He could do some other kind of facial hair besides this molester stache though. Ahhh….

        Or for goodness sake, just donate some money without doing this Movember thing.

        • Godzilla

          MOLESTERSTACHE.

          I would take 18,000 photos of his new visage and print out the really creepy ones on poster sized paper. Hang them up all over the house. And die laughing.

          • ANON

            This could be a great idea. Maybe tonight I’ll take a bunch of pictures of him (without him knowing), get them printed, and then go home for lunch on Friday and hang them all over the house. Then MAYBE right before our nice dinner out he’ll shave. We’ll have so much memorabilia that he won’t need to keep it around.

          • Lady Tetra

            Last summer my boyfriend grew a beard and didn’t want to shave it off, until I took a picture of him and set it as our desktop background. Then he got tired of looking at himself with it and shaved! So it’s a good plan in my opinion.

          • Cat

            do you watch Orange is the new Black? you could print out stills from the show with his head pasted in for P*rnstache’s!

          • Susedna

            At least it’s a mustache, not a wild, unruly beard, at this point. As Godzilla points out, mustaches have great humor potential!

            On the other hand – so do really out-of-control beards. I keep thinking of when Peter Griffin (from “The Family Guy”) grew a beard. It was so bushy that a bird nested in it, and every time he tried to take a bite of his food, the bird would pop out, cuckoo-clock style and snatch the food, leaving Peter to go hungry. maintained beard.

          • Ashley

            Its official. I am now a Godzilla fan. No lie. This is too awesome for words.

        • Kanye East

          Start referring to him only as “Tom Magnum.” See how long it takes him to realize he is not hot Tom Selleck from 1981.

      • TBK

        My husband is growing a stache for Movember. It looks awful, but I just find it hilarious. Then again, my husband also once accidentally shaved off his eyebrows (don’t ask) and has threatened to grow a Hulk Hogan-esque stache/goatee (what do you even call whatever it was that Hulk Hogan wore on his face in the ’80s?). Meh. He looks best with a closely trimmed beard, but honestly, I have other things to worry about than whether my husband is being creative with his facial hair again.

    • Nonny

      Is he growing facial hair for Movember? If so, it would only be for a couple more weeks…

      Given the timing, that’s the first thing that went through my head.

    • Madeleine

      You should go to dinner . . . in one of those beards the Red Sox fans were wearing.

    • Anonymous

      Does he tell you when to shave your legs? I think you are being truly absurd. Voice your objection to it once and then drop it for god sakes

    • Anon

      It’s his choice, but it’s also your choice not to be physically affectionate with him since you don’t find him attractive. I’d lay off complaining and let him be… he’ll cave.

      • Godzilla

        I don’t know. I think it’s really unfair to throw down ultimatums regarding a partner’s facial hair (or body hair, whatever). Yes, they may objectively look awful but it’s their decision. I see this as being synonymous with men hating women with short hair or p#bic hair, etc. It’s body policing.

        • Senior Attorney

          I agree with this. In these cases the thought experiment I always do is “What if my partner threw a fit and slept in the spare room because he didn’t like my haircut/pubic hair?” and the result is never “I would feel fine and would accede to his demands with a smile.”

          • Anon

            This. It would be an absolute deal breaker if my partner issued ultimatums of any sort about my appearance.

        • Orangerie

          Idunno… the reality is you sometimes can’t help what attracts and/or repulses you. For example, I prefer very short hair on men and would be seriously turned off if a boyfriend/SO/husband decided to grow out his hair Jim Morrison style. It’s not like I could just flip a switch and be attracted to that.

          • Senior Attorney

            And again… turn the tables. Are you willing to have your SO dictate your hairstyle choices? Your clothing choices? Your body size and shape? All under the rubric of “you can’t help what attracts and/or repulses you?” Really?

            I go back to Dan Savage’s dealbreakers vs. price of admission. I can’t imagine a moustache or hairstyle being a dealbreaker.

          • NOLA

            I also really prefer my SO’s hair short. Sometimes he’ll grow it out a little, but when it gets really wavy, he tends to look a lot like a former NO politician, so it’s easy to tease him and he immediately gets a haircut.

          • Orangerie

            First of all, I think there’s a distinction between commenting on clothing/hair choices and body size/shape.

            To be honest, I wouldn’t be offended if someone told me they preferred my hair straight vs. curled or that they liked the way I looked in a certain outfit vs. another. Just as I’d hope that person wouldn’t be upset if I said something along the same lines to them. I never said anything about dictating or handing over an ultimatum; I think everyone has a preference for what they find attractive and quite honestly they are lying to themselves if they think otherwise.

          • Senior Attorney

            But if you’re talking about somebody you a have already found attractive enough to marry, when we’re talking about hair we’re talking about the details. And I find it hard to believe a change in hairstyle would suddenly move one’s beloved spouse/partner from the “attracted to” column to the “repulsed by” column.

            Preferences are one thing. Screaming fights and sleeping in the other room are another.

    • amelia earhart

      Go to dinner with one of those atrocious Duck Dynasty beards people had for Halloween!

    • Anonymous

      I am sorry to say you are being completely unreasonable.

      1) It’s absolutely all right that you hate-hate-hate his facial hair, but
      2) this is his body and, ultimately, he should be able to control what happens to it.

      Imagine if you really, really wanted to get a pixie cut/color your hair bright red and your husband was constantly “on your case” about how unattractive you look and, hey, refused to sleep in the same bed. :(

      • Anonymous

        Also, I just looooove beards, and cannot understand why this would be a negative. They’re the best. I love them!

  25. Senior Attorney

    I am wearing sheer nude hose today and instead of freezing in my office as I usually do, I am reasonably warm.

    Thank you, Duchess of Cambridge, for making this okay again.

    • iPad PSA

      Just wanted to let everyone know- this week you can trade in an old iPad (even 1st gen) and get a $200 GC to Target. We did it last night and the actual value of the device was only $65 so it was a really good deal. We were thinking about putting the $ towards a new iPad but our Target was sold out so they just gave us a gift card.

    • Nancy Blackett

      Agreed! I love my sheer nude hose both for the warmth and the ability to tuck my shirts into them.

  26. anon

    Relationship TJ–

    I’m in a relationship with a guy who I’ve been dating for a year. I work in an area at least 7 hours away from my closest friends (and 10 hours away from parents and close childhoodfriends and a 20 hr drive from my other sibling). However, this is his hometown. Thus, we are always around his family and his close childhood friends.

    We’ve had troubles in our relationship before where he feels like he “doesn’t know me” because he hasn’t been able to really get to know my close close friends and family. It’s hard to incorporate him into activities with “new” friends–simply because I’m still trying to get to know them myself (plus SO tends to be WAY more of an introvert than I am–soo it tends to be a lot easier for me to just tag along to events with him bc I carry the conversation).

    Do you all have any advice on how to handle this? With the holidays coming up, SO will get to meet my family for the second time (and hopefully our families can meet!). But it’s hard to feel comfortable incorporating him in events with “friends” because most of my “friends” are from work (i.e. have known only for a year in a work setting/am not THAT close to) and other random friends from law school (who were more “tangential friends” back then–but are now my only real friends since all other close friends live elsewhere).

    • Godzilla

      I’ll take a stab at this. I think your SO is being ridiculous. There is no magical time frame in which a person can know everything about another person. You stated challenges in him getting to know your friends. How are other aspects of your relationship? The two of you need to focus on each other more than other aspects of your respective personalities and personas. In general, it sounds like to me that you’re doing the best you can under the circumstances.

  27. TBK

    Anyone else mourning the final demise of Blockbuster today? I remember going to a Blockbuster for the first time. Compared to the little, slightly dingey family-owned video store in the strip mall near my house, Blockbuster was a pristine, bright, expanse of movie-themed wonder. (Also, anyone else remember when those little family-owned video stores had a special selection behind a curtain for “adults only”?)

    • Anon

      Or remember going to those little family-owned stores and renting a movie on Betamax?

    • AIMS

      I think it’s kind of poetic. Blockbuster put all those little mom & pops out of business and then succumbed to the same fate courtesy of netflix.

    • Anon

      No. I remember their terrible policies about returns, especially when they changed it so you had to return it by noon the next day.

    • zora

      Don’t really feel bad for Blockbusters, specifically. But it does mean it’s kind of the end of an era, don’t you think?? I mean, I just have so many memories of evenings spent wandering around (whatever) video store, with friends, with boyfriends, trying to decide on a movie, arguing over which one to rent, being indecisive and spending WAY too long picking something out, etc. Oh, Memories… ;o)

  28. In the Pink

    +1

    As previous honored with “Sargent At Legs,” I’d like to continue this thread with listings of favorite brands of hosiery.

    Mine are Filodoro and Sylvia Grandi, both Italian brands. Sylvia Grandi has an amazing toeless version!

  29. smalltownlawgirl

    Hey ladies! First time poster and LOVE this website, your posts and comments have saved me several times!
    I recently started my own practice (criminal/estates/family law) in my home town. I love being back and this is the best place I could have started out on my own. I am a 28 and single.

    My question/problem is that I live in a very small town in the rural south. Apart from the Assistant District Attorney, I am the youngest lawyer by 20+years. My colleagues are all very protective and helpful and treat me with a lot of respect.

    The ADA is a young attractive single guy who I face in court multiple times a week. There is a mutual flirtation and several other attorneys and courthouse staff have made why don’t smalltownlawgirl and Hot ADA go out. I’m very interested in Hot ADA and I think the feeling is reciprocal. I don’t know how to approach him about this or even if I should…what do you all think?

    • AIMS

      I don’t think you should date someone who will be your opposing counsel on many cases. I’m not sure if it would be a violation of your state bar ethics exactly, but it certainly seems like a bad idea. What if it works out? You clients could accuse you of making deals to help your boyfriend. What if it doesn’t??? Then you’ve potentially soured a good working relationship. And it could just be a plain old conflict of interest and it would severely cut into your growing practice. I just wouldn’t go there.

      • Anonymous

        If the dating pool is small, and she really likes this small town, maybe cutting the criminal portion of her practice wouldn’t be so bad, especially if she gains a great husband out of it. No one wants to be single forever. Plus, in these cases, can’t they just declare the conflict and not take cases against each other? There are plenty of married criminal lawyers in my city on opposite sides.

    • Equity's Darling

      I have no tips, but all I can think about now is Hart of Dixie, because it’s a pretty similar fact scenario.

      • Godzilla

        It’s reminding me of a romance novel. In fact, I’m writing the whole story out in my head right now.

    • Susie

      I’d start by asking him to coffee after you kick his butt in court – “No hard feelings, how about I buy you a coffee?” See where it goes from there!

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