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Coffee Break: Karolina Stripe Patent Heel

Kate Spade Karolina Stripe Patent HeelWe're not exactly into nude pump weather yet, but these beige Kate Spade pumps are amazing — I love the bright pink heel and the stripe details, mixed with the otherwise boring shoe. Fabulous. (There's a navy patent version with red heels as well.) They're $298. Kate Spade Karolina Stripe Patent Heel Psst: I've believe Nordstrom's shoe clearance is starting today — check it out! (L-4)

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

162 Comments

  2. These look the like the mullet of shoes – sensible nude business pumps in front, hideous striped party shoe in the back.

      1. they aren’t my style, but i think they are AWESOME! If I saw them on some other awesome woman, like you ;o), I would just be super jealous!

      1. I would wear these with Ev. Er. Y. Thing. I have some bright green ones with a black and white striped heel, and they are so comfy and cute. I think brighter shoes actually go with more things because I won’t be wearing a hot pink or bright green outfit usually, so it is just a pop of color.

        1. If I hadn’t just bought Barbie-pink shoes today from Zappos, I would have a hard time not ordering these and wearing them 2-3 days a week. LOVE them.

        2. I have the bright green ones with the black and white striped heel, and I also have some coral pink ones with rainbow-striped heels, which are my favorite shoes ever in the whole world. I am having a hard time not adding these to the collection…

          1. Senior Attorney, I am SO jealous. I never bought those shoes when I got the chance and I have regretted it ever since. No Karolina has been as cute as those.

        3. Yes, but preg anon, you are known to be a lover of the Karolina! I personally like them, but the one time I tried on KS shoes, they were so narrow, they killed me.

    5. I actually have a pair of shoes that’s nude in front, bright pink in back (I think they’re made by Steve Madden) that I love! I got a lot of comments on them when I wear them to work. Not everyone loves them, but they all do seem to have an opinion!

    6. So 1990’s— throw a random racing stripe where is doesn’t belong. I remember an *awesome* black skirt I had with the white piping down the side!

      1. haha, I never thought of that as a trend, but now that you point it out it totally was! It was the exposed zipper of it’s day.

    8. I think the “mullet” description of the shoe is accurate. That’s what makes these shoes seem confusing to me. I feel like I wouldn’t know what to wear them with – are they work shoes? party shoes? trendy shoes? classic shoes? It’s midnight here, I’m still at the office, and my brain can’t take the amount of thinking these shoes require!! :-P

      http://www.polishedpinstripes.com

  3. Hi Ladies – I have been tasked with setting up a Women’s event for the West Coast offices of my law firm. I just switched to this firm and have been given cart blanche on what to do. The idea is to just do something fun and get to know each other – not have a speaker or do any activities that are “women’s issues” focused. I am thinking we will probably be in OC or LA and it will be about 15-20 people. Any suggestions on fun stuff to plan?

    1. Spa day or mani pedis. Hollywood tour. Darts and billiards in a bar. Cruise to Catalina. Wine and chocolate pairing party. Visit the driving range.

      Can you tell us more? I can think of groups where none of these would be appropriate. I would also ask someone at the firm to help you think of ideas or eliminate ideas from the running.

    3. I’ve organized these events for my firm. Get comfortable with the idea that no matter what you organize, someone (either an attendee or a man) will not be happy with the plan. Everyone will have an opinion – don’t do cooking class/do a cooking class, don’t do a spa day/do a spa day, don’t have a speaker/do have a speaker. Within in the women invitees, you will have a vast array of opinions. It’s incredibly hard to please everyone. One thing that’s worked for us — we set up our women’s group, then had a general meeting and asked at that meeting “what do you want to do this year?” We had a variety of ages/stages of careers present and got a variety of responses. We planned an entire year of events based on that first meeting and a follow up email seeking additional input. We did the following events last year: a cocktail/mixer event where each woman invited one or two potential clients/contacts; had a financial planner come in for a lunch talk; had a wellness coach come in (NOT about dieting); a cooking class with clients; an open house at a senior vp’s home; and an event where we partnered with a client to support something philanthropic. Good luck with your planning! And don’t take the inevitable dissatisfaction of some members as a personal failure. :)

      1. Yeah, this is what I would do. Ask for ideas/get everyone’s requests and suggestions. And put at least 2 or 3 events on the calendar to start (you don’t even have to do a whole year). That are a variety of things, and meet different peoples’ tastes and preferences. As Anon said, no ONE event will ever make everyone happy. Ever. But if people can see from the outset that there will be a variety of activities, they will be more likely to just go along with it and have fun, because they know at some point they will do something that is more their style.

        1. The other thing you can do is make a surveymonkey with a few different options and let people vote. And then schedule the top 2-3 vote getters over the next few months.

      2. Devil’s Advocate here – I say don’t do a survey. Every time I’ve done that the planning is taken over by other people’s suggestions, and when you don’t do what someone suggested, you’re basically giving them an excuse to complain about what you end up choosing to do. It also just gets really annoying having everyone chime in. I say just plan something and tell them when to show up. If it’s not their cup of tea, at least they can’t say “I told you so.” (Which some of them will do, especially if they’re the type to complain anyway).

        Just pick something fun and different! I like k-padi’s suggestions.

        1. FWIW, if someone suggested a spa day or a mani/pedi at my current firm, they would be crucified. By both the women the event is intended for as well as the men who already think women’s groups are stupid.

          I don’t want to see my colleagues in spa robes. My prior firm’s partner retreat let us pick an event/activity, I refused to pick the massage or facial because I really didn’t want to see any of my colleagues, male or female, in spa robes.

          1. I am with you. I like darts and billiards, or boat trip, or driving range though! But that’s just me.

          2. (OP) Ya, I’m so not into the spa thing with work people either. The spa is about total relaxation, not about hanging with my boss.

        2. Second this! The first rule of event planning is that there is nothing wrong with a benevolent dictatorship. People will complain no matter what you do, so do what you want and most people will be happy with it.

    4. OP Here. Thanks for all of the suggestions! As I’m reading, I think it would be good to come up with event options that are interactive and/or teach us something. Like cooking but maybe more original. Any thoughts? Has anyone done a “how to make craft beer” class and loved it or some other thing that would get people who are otherwise strangers to talk and laugh? I heard a story on NPR about classes about how to butcher your own pigs that people were really into in LA but I think that’s waaaay too far out there for attorneys.

      1. This. Any event where you can get people talking to one another and learning something ends up being more successful. We built bicycles for a charity that donates them to disadvantaged kids. It required teamwork but was sedate enough to get even the most committed couch potato up and doing something. There were enough volunteers from the organization to make sure those of us who were tool-challenged were doing it correctly.

      2. that sounds like a great way to go! Then you might do a little informal survey of your colleagues and find out what people’s interests are, you might find a great idea or two that way. Also, definitely look at food classes, I have heard of ‘make your own chocolate’ classes or ‘make your own cheese’ classes, those sound like super fun, and yet fraught with opportunities for laughing at yourself ;o)

        also maybe check out lists on Groupon or Living Social sites, just for ideas of the kinds of classes that are out there?

      3. We have a women’s event in our office that is always a huge hit. A woman, who owns a well regarded wine shop in town, comes to the office and gives a short presentation about a few different wines, all of which were created by various women. After the presentation, we all do a wine tasting and try out the different wines. There are appetizers and other non-alcoholic beverages as well. We usually have the event between 4 – 6 pm.

        Since you’re doing this on the west coast (CA?), perhaps you could contact a local winery. They might be willing to do something like onsite in the office.

        The event works because it’s both educational and social. And because the wines all were developed by women, it ties into the women’s event theme as well.

        3. This sounds awesome! I think one of the bar associations here does a scotch tasting/lesson night. I really don’t like scotch but it seems like a fun way to interact with colleagues or network, even for this total introvert. I find it really helpful when there is something specific to focus on while interacting with people I don’t know very well v

        4. Love this. A friend of a friend did a “learn to taste wine” night as a fundraiser a few years back, and it’s one of the best $15 I ever spent!

      4. Oh H3LL yes I would do this. But then again, in another life I’d be a butcher . . . .

      5. I once did a cooking class where we were divided into two groups and it was a competition. Big fun!

      6. We did a wine bottling thing at one and it was really, really fun. Plus, we got to take it home & drink it after (this was in nor-cal but maybe that winery in DTLA does one too?)!

    5. I’m on my company’s Women in Leadership committee- I love all of the ideas above. Are they asking you to set up more social type things, or more of a networking/business opportunity? I think mixing those two things is also great. Once you’ve gotten a few events done, one cool thing to so is “speed mentoring”- something I’m planning now for us. It’s basically speed dating, except with mentoring, we’ve done it a few times, and people have seriously enjoyed it. It’s pretty planning-intensive but really gives people a lot of value.

    7. This being LA, have this lady come and give a talk about cars – www DOT womenautoknow DOT com

      She was featured in HuffPo and mentioned on this site or its comments as well. As a woman who does not know as much as I should on car basics, I would thank you if someone at work organized such an event.

      Or, wine and cheese.

      1. How about hiring someone to teach cool card games… Poker, blackjack, etc. could be a lead in to a casino night social event ?

    8. OP Again – THANK YOU all. You got my creative wheels spinning with lots of great ideas.

  4. So let’s talk mentoring:

    Those that have formal/informal mentors, what are the best pieces of advice they have given you? What is the most effective way thAt you have engaged with them to have them give you good advice/have them champion your cause?

    Those of us that are far enough along in our careers to be mentors, how do you select who you want to mentor? How do you prefer to interact with your mentee? Do you try to use your position of power to shape your company/industry/unit, etc so that is more welcoming to women/other underrepresented minorities in your field? If do, what works? If not, why not?

    To start it off, I am mid-career so I have both mentors and mentees.

    As a mentee, I try to ask my mentor specific questions I am struggling with (ie how did they set up a reporting structure that works for them) or their thoughts on next career steps. If I haven’t talked with them in a while, I will sometimes forward along an article relevant to their work that they might have missed or something particularly newsworthy that I know they are involved in.

    As a mentor, I do definitely try to think about how I can use what power I have to try to reshape my industry which is particularly conservative white male in vibe. I am 0 for 3 so I try to be very open and matter of fact about ways that I do not meet the mold. I think that can really set the tone in a low key way for a more inclusive work place. I also take pains to make sure that we advertise open positions to diverse populations that may not have access to info about these types of job openings via informal networks (it may only be making sure to send the opening to the Harvard MBA club for students of color club as well as harvard’s regular career services center) so as to make sure we have a robust applicant pool. I also try to invite younger colleagues to meetings to get exposure to interesting people and ideas and champion people’s good work when it’s appropriate.

    I very much want to succeed in my industry of choice but I also care deeply about trying to change the culture of places where I work, in ways that I can.

    1. You wrote about what you think about as a mentor, but what do you tell your mentees?
      When I mentor, I focus on the person and try to help them figure out how they can achieve their goals. I may try to give them a boost in an area of my influence, but my goal is to help them develop as a person first and foremost.

      1. I try to help my mentors achieve their career goals, and is try to give them tips about how best to frame their arguments to whatever room they are speaking. Sometimes navigating the soft skills part of a job is harder/less intuitive than the concrete skills.

        We do not have a formal mentoring network in my company but I generally act as a mentor to smart, younger people that work in my area.

        I also get referred a lot of informational coffee requests from people which I actually generally find frustrating to both myself and the person who wants to know more about my industry. I find these rough because usually the person hasn’t thought through good questions and just expects me to offer an inspiring monologue about how they should break into this industry or expects a concrete job lead to come out of the meeting. I think this is one thing that “lean in” really got right.

    2. Just as a side note on how someone can matter of factly change office culture, a friend works at a very large, conservative law firm. The managing partner is very old and stuffy and does not share about his personal life until one weekend he took a few extra days off to attend his son’s gay wedding. All he did was tell a few jr attorneys that he was working on cases with why he would be out of pocket. Within 6 months, several people including my friend all came out at work because it now felt “safe.” My friend even had a baby shower when her partner got pregnant, news that she probably wouldn’t have shared otherwise.

    3. I am new in my field (in my third year). I have a few people that I turn to with questions, but one stands out that I would probably call my mentor if I had to pick just one. The advice that he’s given me has mostly been specific to circumstances, but probably the most important things I’ve learned from him are patience and the value of sustained hard work. We are very comfortable with each other, so he also often gives me immediate helpful feedback. For example a couple of days ago I asked a needlessly long question and he made a joke and said, “So the actual question is whether I have that piece of paper on my desk.” One reason I think it’s a really effective mentor/mentee relationship is because we talk almost daily. I don’t really have to catch him up on things that are going on. He asks me questions about how I think he could improve, too, and that makes me feel a little more like its a two-way street and I’m not just asking millions of questions all the time.

      The thing I struggle with goes to that last point. I’m never sure what I can give back to the relationship. I do the best work I can and contribute some ideas, but somehow it seems to pale in comparison to the time he invests in helping me get better.

      I think I’m still too new to mentor anyone really. Sometimes the newer associates will ask me questions, and I give them advice, but I’m certainly in no position to advance them in any way.

      1. As for what you can contribute to your mentor: It can be really helpful to someone who’s been in a position for a long time to hear just how it feels, or how policy’s and procedure’s and internal communication comes off to a newer person to the organization. After you’ve been doing something for a long time, it is hard to remember what it was like to be new and not have the shorthand and an innate understanding of the unspoken procedures and communication, etc. It can help him be better at screening new candidates or training new employees to get your perspective on what was easy to pick up versus what was hard, or even little things that seem obvious but were hard to figure out when you were new.

        A *good* manager (and he sounds like one) is always trying to be the best communicator to their staff they can be, and hearing an honest perspective from one of your staff is a huge help for that.

    4. I have an assigned formal mentee – frankly, that person has already demonstrated a lack of some skills that are fundamental to success in my practice group, and so although I do what the firm requires in terms of mentoring him, I doubt it’s a particularly useful relationship for him. Conversely, I have another mentee that I asked to take on when his mentor left, and I asked because he was already doing great work for me. That’s the number one thing I’m looking for – someone who has potential and interest, as demonstrated through their work product.

    5. Just want to say that this thread is really interesting. I had the luck to be introduced to ~5 senior execs in the past week and I’m meeting with all of them (all for the first time) in the next two weeks. I’m kind of nervous, so it’s good to hear from the mentor side.

    6. I don’t know if it’s just because of the industry I’ve worked in, but I don’t really feel like I’ve ever had a mentor. Some of my co-workers get together to trouble shoot problems and share advice, but none of them were much more experienced than me. Some of my managers have coached me, but honestly, I didn’t really look up to them. I wouldn’t have wanted to emulate their overall behavior or career path. Just putting it out there, because it’s often assumed that having a mentor is a normal experience for ambitious women, but I think it’s actually very rare.

  5. Real question, not trying to be snarky.

    Why do people care so much about the repeated snow storms? I understand a) that they are inconvenient, b) they are uncommon in the south and it was very disruptive and caused a lot of problem. But what about the fact that there is a huge drought in CA? Do people not care about their citrus, almonds, or lettuce? Or wine??? Is it that we’re too far away from the Acela Corridor and not so important as a result? Or it’s not visible climate change because (Southern) California is always dry? I’m just not sure why something like “Look at the kids playing with their dogs in the snow” is on the news as opposed to trying to actually talk about climate change and strategies. Maybe there’s the issue right there…

    1. Snow is immediate and its effects are very visible. It closes schools, offices and stores. People die driving around on the roads etc. We won’t see the food shortages for a while, and even then, how many of us will actually notice?

      I’m not saying the drought isn’t more important than the snow (because it is), but it’s just not as immediate and acute.

      1. This. Local news is all about car crashes and “weather events” not thoughtful discussions of long term problems that have no clear or easy answers.

        1. Plus there’s a point as to whether or not you can effectively do anything about climate change on a local level. Even at higher levels, I don’t know that anyone has done anything that is effective at anything beyond very slightly slowing it down, though maybe (hopefully) someone else can enlighten me.

      2. The snow is very disruptive, and not just in an adorable snowman way. For example, I have a client flying in tonight who might or might not make it to his Grand Jury appearance in the morning, depending on whether his flight is cancelled. I know the media overdoes it, but I do need to know what is happening with the storm (severity, how long it will last, ice/snow/rain, etc) to prepare for tomorrow. Take that and multiply it by millions of people, and you have demand for a news story.

        1. Agree on this. The 3 days before a storm (immediately after they forecast it basically), I am basically checking detailed weather reports 2x per day to see if I need to move meetings, make them into phone calls etc. If it’s a 1/2 day storm, I need to judge whether I should go into work late/leave early. I don’t even have kids or live in a house with a driveway! I can’t imagine all the logistical headaches going on there.

      2. Also, drought is a lot more fun on a day-to-day basis. I live in CA, and it is becoming a hot topic on our local NPR & other news stations. I really think a major initiative to fix our water system is going to get pushed on the next ballot.

    3. I think you nailed it. Why would we waste energy caring about something that is a lasting issue vs. a temporary issue? That would mean we would have to really, truly, invest energy in something. That’s not the American way! (Sorry, I am feeling extra snarky today.)

    4. Who are the “people” you reference? Local news, national news, online, people at the work water cooler…??

      I live in CA and I don’t think there’s a shortage of local news covering weather patterns affecting the state. I see lots of news articles online regarding the snow but to me it makes sense since the snowstorm is affecting ~50% of the country.

    5. I’m in NYC and listen to the national news every day and I’ve heard a few stories on the drought. It’s not as “sensational” as things like snow storms that are easy to show.

      I think it’s also difficult sometimes for climate change issues and ideas to be discussed in the media because it immediately jumps to politics and disintegrates.

    6. When the drought starts causing actual, visible, real-time disruption in ordinary people’s lives, expect to see more coverage. I remember years ago the news was full of people spray painting their lawns and only flushing, uh, solids.

      Just wait…

    7. I think snow is great, so long as you dont have to walk in it or shouvel it. Otherwise, its FOOEY! When we were young, Rosa built a snow man and we had alot of fun. I do NOT like snow now, b/c my dad make’s me walk to work with my fitbit, rain or snow or not. He get’s mad when I take the 6 line and say’s I could be svelte and MARRIED if I walk, b/c I can meet a man and have the kind of tuchus he want’s. I think he is a littel crazy over my tuchus being to big, but he does not care about snow b/c he has a man who come’s by with a plow and he does NOT have to shouvel. The manageing partner is workeing from home so he does not care either.

    8. Real answer, not trying to be snarky, but its gonna come off that way with my mood. Snow is super disruptive. I have had at least 4 days where I’ve spent over 2 hours clearing my driveway. My sciatic nerve has been on fire for the last week, and will be reignited today. I am out of places to store my snow. It screws up mass transportation, so people can’t get to work or can’t get home. Roads get screwed up so a 2 hour commute turns into 5 hours (I’m not kidding). The news, locally anyway, makes things worse by screwing up the forecast all the time. It hasn’t been above freezing so there is just ice everywhere now. And I live in the Northeast where we are used to snow. I can’t even imagine being in Atlanta where there is no prep for it. If I could ship all of this f-ing snow to California, I happily would!!!!!

      1. Send it over, we need the water! I’ve lived in areas that get lots of snow, it isn’t fun.

        1. It always happens that there is a drought out west while there is 100″ of snow in the east, or the Mississippi is flooding. It is really a shame that we can’t transport snow and water to where it needs to go!

  7. Dang it, comment stuck in moderation. I’m looking at two pairs of boots from Nordstrom. Plan to buy in black and wear to work with pencil skirts and tights. Links to follow. Please help me pick which one to buy!

    2. Nordstrom has free shipping and free returns. Order both and keep whichever pair you like in person.

    3. Since it’s from Nordstrom, I would just buy both and keep the one you like the most!

    4. They’re both really nice, but the Enzo Angiolini seems like it would have a better sole for walking in wet or slippery conditions.

  9. I needed a new interview suit after loosing a bunch of weight (and I’m actually hoping to interview soon). I bought this online from Brooks Bros, and it came yesterday. I think it’s really nice, but I’m not sure it’s entirely formal enough to be an interview suit. It’s not normal suit material-its a little bit of a looser/textured weave. I really like it and it looks good on, but I don’t want to keep it if it’s not good enough. Thoughts? Links in reply.

    2. I have this suit. It’s perfect for my industry (investment bank) as a formal business suit – interviewing, client meeting, etc. I’m not sure what you mean by saying the fabric is not normal suit material – it’s a wool silk blend with a bit of Lycra to help keep the shape. If it fits and is flattering and you feel good in it, I’d say keep it. I can’t imagine an industry where this wouldn’t be considered formal enough.

    3. It’s definitely fine for spring/summer or winter in warm climates. For northern climates, I wouldn’t wear this in winter. It’s very nice looking!

      2. Yeah, based on looking at the close-up picture of the fabric, it reads more spring/summer to me. Nonetheless, it is a very pretty suit.

  11. I am kind of freaking out because I was asked to prepare a memo on a Very Important Topic in a Very Important Case. I have no prior experience in this area of law, so it was all new for me. For this reason, I’m freaking myself out thinking I got something wrong, and someone is going to rely on this memo and something bad is going to happen. I don’t *know* that I messed it up, I just don’t feel confident. I think this is one of the hardest things about being a lawyer – someone is paying ME to research really really important stuff.

    Thanks for listening, invisible internet friends.

    1. If it actually is a Very Important Topic on a Very Important Case, then someone more senior than you is going to read your memo carefully and make sure that they agree with your reasoning and conclusions, and (most likely) also read or at least skim the cases that you cite to make sure that you are reaching the correct answer. Depending on how important the issue is, more than one person senior to you might do this. Yes, you could get something wrong, and that might be embarrassing, but it is not going to have the dire consequences that you’re worried about.

      Also, everyone makes mistakes, from summer associates all the way up to partners. Law is hard. There are lots of different ways to read cases. There often isn’t one right answer or one correct way to interpret the law–if there were, litigation would be much easier. Go a little easier on yourself. I’m assuming that you are just starting out? If that’s true, recognize that everyone understands that you’re learning and no one expects you to be perfect from the start. Just do your best and be as diligent as you can be. Good luck!!

  12. Sorry to pile on with the dating questions today and I’m sure this has been discussed before but…I grew up solidly middle class. I’m seeing someone who is great, works hard, makes good money, and therefore buys nice things. I understand that he deserves to treat himself and spend his money however he wants, but I can’t help but judge and think it’s completely ostentatious. I don’t think even if I made that much I would have or want his lifestyle. Is this something that can be reconciled? Or does it signify a clash in values?

    1. Do you have any idea if he is also saving a good amount at the same time? For me the choice of how to spend “extra” money is something that can be worked out, but if you are a saver and he is not, that’s a much bigger values clash.

      1. This. If he is paying his bills, saving money, contributing towards retirement, etc., and then buying fun things with his leftover money, that is one thing. If he is scraping to pay bills, not saving at all, and not contributing to his retirement, that’s another.

        I will say that if you are bugged by his spending now, it’s unlikely to get better as time goes on. I think your use of the word ostentatious is telling. My SO is willing to spend money on things I wouldn’t, but he pays his bills, saves, and is fiscally responsible, so it doesn’t bother me.

      3. This. I think if it’s just a matter of having different personal interests for spending money on, you have to let it go. for example: I dated a guy who spent So. Much. Money. on his bicycle and his big TV and some other things I don’t like and therefore found frivolous. But he also didn’t spend very much on clothes or personal items, or movies, the kinds of things I really like to spend money on, he took public transit, made most of his meals at home, etc. I would have little judgmental thoughts when he told me about some expensive thing he bought, but I would bite my tongue and make myself ignore them.

        Because he was overall very smart about finances. He didn’t live beyond his means, he paid his bills, he was saving for the future. He had his priorities in order, and if we had ever gotten serious and combined finances, I know he would have been thoughtful about what was important and had to come first and what was ‘fun’ spending.

        The underlying values about money and finances are more important. If he has problems there, then by all means, talk to him and have this out. But if it’s just because your discretionary money preferences are different, breathe and let it go.

    2. What exactly is the basis for your judgment? Is it because he is not saving enough? Because he should be donating that money to charity instead of spending it on himself? Because you don’t like the actual things he buys (i.e., if he bought a hybrid car instead of a gas-guzzling sports car, you’d be okay with it)?

      Without more information, I guess I’d have to say it’s a clash in values.

    3. I would say the problem is that you’re judging him . I feel like we should be able to be ourselves with our partners without feeling judged. That speaks of a larger problem than his choices with his money

    4. This does indeed sound like a clash in values. If you don’t value his lifestyle, don’t want it, and think less of him because that’s how he lives, it doesn’t sound like there’s much room for reconciliation.

      But honestly, I’m fighting the urge to tell you to get over yourself and take a good look at why it’s so upsetting to you to see somebody living a lifestyle that is more lavish than the one with which you grew up, even though apparently he is responsible and can well afford it. Have you given that any thought?

      1. Yeah, this, too. I think the very fact that you’re asking us this question and if it is a clash in values, shows that you are listening to your instincts that there might be a problem here. I think you need to dig a little deeper in your own mind to figure out exactly what is going on in your own head before you talk to him about it.

        Do you have a friend who will be brutally honest with you that you could talk this out with and who you can trust with your deepest thoughts that you might even be embarrassed to admit you have?? we all have those ;o)

        1. I’m completely projecting my life on to OP’s, but I agree that (a) this post is evidence enough that the relationship should end, and (b) the reason isn’t actually the spending. Your mind has decided that’s the problem and is focusing on it, but really there’s an underlying issue. He’s rude to waiters, or doesn’t think that the poor deserve assistance, or doesn’t care about the environment, or values making money over spending time with you, or thinks that anything can be bought at a price and is okay with that, or some other (probably mix) of values and behaviors that you do not agree with.

          That’s fine. You’re different. You should not change. People should get off your back about it. But you should figure out what’s actually bugging you so that end the relationship avoid it in the future.

          1. really? all those negative things because he likes nice stuff? i don’t get the connection.

          2. Because liking nice things alone wouldn’t raise red flags for most people, hoopla is trusting the OP’s instincts that something is wrong.

      2. Agree with SA re: examining further your instant aversion to a lifestyle that (it sounds like) he can well afford, just because you “wouldn’t live that way.”

        I was raised *very* working class, and one parent in particular made hizzerself feel better about our circumstances by constantly harping on how great it was that, as a family, we had “enough” and “knew better than to waste money on foolish things,” and how people who had nicer things than us were “wasteful,” or “superficial,” or “didn’t know what was *really* important in life.” When I started making upper-middle-class money, and made some lifestyle upgrades (mostly in the hair/work clothes/car departments), I initially got some snide remarks about it from Parent, but it was really Parent’s fear that I was rejecting Parent/leaving Parent behind talking. Once Parent was reassured that I was still me (just me with better hair and nicer clothes), Parent dropped a lot of hizzer “values” around living frugally, and is more than happy to accept lifestyle upgrades I’ve financed for Parent in the intervening years.

        I obviously can’t tell from your post, but I’m getting a bit of a strain of self-righteousness (“even if I made that much I would[n’t] have or want his lifestyle”), and I think it’d be helpful to you, if you really like this guy otherwise, to examine that and see whether it’s a personal value rooted in true belief in/about something (say, a personal/spiritual/religious belief in minimalism), or something that was inculcated in you out of a parent’s jealousy/fear of something they couldn’t provide for you.

      3. So, just to jump to OP’s defense, although I think her aversion to his spending could be a clash in values and possibly a deal-breaker, I don’t necessarily think that she’s WRONG in feeling that way. I know plenty of people who just think it’s inherently wasteful and unnecessary to spend money on a lavish lifestyle. Instead of spending that money on stuff or luxury travel, they would rather donate it or sock it away and retire early. I don’t think that’s wrong, it’s just a different view on money.

        I’ll admit it — when I see a person buy a velvet porsche (for example), I judge that person, because yes, I think there are much better things a person could be doing with that money.

        1. To clarify, my other posts, I don’t think there’s anything necessarily wrong with OP’s feelings either – I just think that, as with any strong, knee-jerk reaction, it’s worth examining the source of those strong feelings, especially if she thinks this guy is otherwise great/worth her time.

        2. May I just say that the whole “it’s wasteful and selfish to spend yor money, and it’s oh so much better to donate to charity” thing drives me nuts!

          First of all, it seems that the level at which spnding is wasteful/selfish is always “spending that is more than the person talking about the wastefulness is spending.” Second of all, you know those fancy cars? They were built by people who were paid a living wage to build them. The expensive theatre tickets? They create jobs in the arts. The fancy houses? Create jobs for all manner of skilled tradespepople right here in this country. And on and on… I am absolutely one hundred percent okay with somebody choosing to spend their own hard-earned money on goods and services instead of retiring early and watching TV all day at age 50, or donating to a charity that may or may not do worthwhile work.

          /rant

          2. Eh. Some people who retire early don’t just watch tv all day. And you can research charities to make sure your money is going to worthwhile work. Your points are good and well-taken though.

          3. Sure, having nice things is a personal choice but at a certain point a lifestyle gets so excessive that its destructive to the environment and the community. I’m not talking about people driving Porsches but about families of 4 living in 20,000 sq feet houses, flying regularly on private planes for pleasure travel, etc – that stuff is absolutely terrible for the environment (and I think, for society) and any good it does in terms of job creation is vastly outweighed. Yes, charities aren’t all perfect but you can’t tell me that it wouldn’t be better for the world for people who can afford that stuff to give some money to charity and maybe (gasp!) fly commercial first class sometimes. And I’m sure lots of people disagree, but having been around a few, I’m skeptical that a kid raised by parents who have that sort of attitude towards spending all their money in an ostentatious way can turn out to be a good person. Admittedly, it’s a bit of a personal pet peeve, but I find the culture of conspicuous consumption in the US really disgusting. I also think this culture and the emphasis on having THINGS leads a lot of people to spend way beyond their means, which is a whole other problem. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with criticizing that culture and the people who embody it.

          4. Yup. All of this. It’s my money. I can spend it however I want to. It’s none of your business.

            And as for the comment from LH about kids being raised by parents who spend money — stop being so judge-y. My parents worked incredibly hard at a business they started and it made a lot of money. My sibling and I worked hard for them in high school and college, contributing to that success. Why shouldn’t they spend that on a nice house, a good car, vacations, their children/grandchildren, good restaurants, art, theater tickets, donations to the charity of their choice, etc? It’s not up to you to decide whether anyone’s spending is inappropriate or ostentatious.

        3. of course!! She is perfectly entitled to feel that way! some people do, and many of them are my friends! But in that case, this is definitely not going to work as a relationship, because that is pretty irreconcilable with someone who makes a lot of money and spends it on fancy things.

          That’s why I said she should figure out what is *really* going on deep down. Because if she wants this relationship, she needs to figure out where this is coming from, and if she really feels like you said, then she really will do better in a relationship with someone with similar values.

    5. The spending habit differences, by themselves, aren’t an irreconcilable difference – my H and I have very different priorities on spending, and we do just fine. The two things that would make it an insurmountable problem, to my eye, are (1) he’s spending recklessly, or in a way that would compromise long-term financial goals you might share; or (2) one of you passes judgement on the other for spending the way you prefer.

      It sounds to me like you’re doing the second, and that’s just not going to work. It’s one thing to agree to disagree about what each of you do with your own discretionary income, it’s another thing to feel somehow morally superior to him, or to feel that he’s committing some sort of wrongdoing, based on those spending patterns. If you’re looking at his lifestyle and thinking “ew, what’s wrong with him,” I’d have to say that doesn’t bode well for the relationship.

    6. I agree with others that it depends a bit…. it would be much worse if he was not saving, and I would be curious what you consider ostentatious. That is pretty subjective.

      But I do think that the way people spend money can often reflect a value system, and absolutely it can be a problem long term if you don’t agree. If my boyfriend and potential spouse was buying things that I really considered ostentatious, that would probably be a deal breaker…. especially if we wanted kids.

    7. How long have you been dating? Do you have 100% clarity on his financial situation? You see him spending money, you think he makes a good living, etc. but you can’t really know what his personal financial situation is. I have a job I love and it happens to pay well. I also have a trust fund that paid for my education so I have no school debt. I am very fortunate to have more disposable income than some of my friends and even colleagues who earn the same amount of money I earn. I’d be pretty upset if one of my friends or my boyfriend said I was spending ostentatiously because they have no idea what is in my bank account. I’m generous with my friends and recognize that not everyone has the same financial situation. But guess what – it goes both ways. I don’t judge my friends who have less money than I do and I don’t judge my friends who save all of their money for whatever reason. I would appreciate not being judged for spending my money how I want to and if someone were to judge me for it, they wouldn’t be a friend or boyfriend for long. My guess is that there are other factors at play here – you don’t like what he spends his money on, or perhaps he’s uncouth about it (rude to waiters was an example up-thread), etc.

      1. Yes, this. When I was dating my now-husband, he had a very expensive spending habit that I found a bit alarming (since I am frugal by nature as a result of my upbringing, even though I now make a biglaw salary). I knew him to be generally responsible so I trusted that he was not spending money he didn’t have, but it was still hard to not be a little nervous. However, when we began to discuss marriage, we talked in more detail about our finances, and it became clear that he could easily afford that habit. Now, he has curbed it a bit for my sake, but I am comfortable knowing that he’s not overextending. So, there may be more to the situation than you know!

  13. Hi ladies, looking for advice on how to find a good mortgage broker. We are new to our area (work transfer) and don’t have a lot of contacts here yet to ask. We are already preapproved for a loan through USAA, and got our realtor through a USAA referral, so he is basically pushing us to go with them. However, we want to get a sense of what our options are before committing. Googling and Angie’s List are turning up lots of mortgage providers, but no brokers. Any ideas? We are in Rochester, NY if anyone has a specific lead. TIA!

    1. In our local paper there is a blurb in the real estate section saying what going morgage rates are, and there’s a firm name with them. I never paid much attention to them, but one of my relatives who is a real estate professional actually found a great broker by calling one of those firms, and we’ve all used him since then. So, check the local paper sometime! I’m insured by USAA but have used a broker for all my mortgages & refis because you can find better rates out there.

    2. OMG, another Rochester NY person! Be still my heart. I would highly recommend Premium Mortgage (anyone there, although I know Karen Haberer -Gallagher personally and she’s a gem). Welcome!

      1. Thanks so much! We really like Rochester so far, despite what everyone assures me is the unusually harsh winter.

    3. We’re also in the same position. I have heard that USAA is GREAT for insurance (we plan to go with them) but not very competitive for interest rates. Also they take a long time to close (60+ days) compared to local lenders who can be closer to 20. For a competitive property that can be a big difference. We’re planning to get a quote from them but I definitely agree you need to look around more.

  14. Does anyone work in marketing research? It’s a field I think I’m interested in and I’ve been applying for jobs. I’m 2.5 years out of undergrad with a BA in econ and a math minor. I’ve been working as a research assistant for one of my old college professors for the last 1.5 years, mostly doing work in the more sociological parts of econ, and I also was a TA for a stats class last year. Software-wise I’m good with Stata and okay but not advanced with Tableau and Excel. Any advice about the industry? I’d love to move to SoCal (LA/OC), but I live in another state now.

    1. I can’t be super helpful, but I’m responding in case no one with more direct experience can help you. I do health research and have a friend who does market research in CA, so this is sort of a hybrid of my experience plus what I know about hers.

      It’s generally a skill rather than degree oriented field, and your education and experience sounds like it’s solidly in the ball park. There’s also pretty darn good upward mobility so you can usually start at an entry level job to get the contextual experience and them move up either within the org (which is very common) or at another org. For you, I’d probably recommend applying for the lower level jobs and then completing masters work in your off time, the combo of which will make you marketable for what you probably want to do.

      Knowing STATA is great. In my field, SAS is what you really want to know – but I think my friend works in STATA so that may be standard for the market research industry. I have solid excel skills which I find very helpful, but it’s not a requirement (you should be able to do the basics, though). Tableau isn’t commonly used in my field but I can believe that it is for market research. I’d find out before you invest in learning it, though.

      Do informational interviews to find out what skills and experience they expect their entry level folks to have. Information interviews are exactly what you need.

      1. Thanks so much! My plan has definitely been to get an entry level job and then get a masters in statistics while I’m working, so I’m glad to hear that it’s realistic. Just by looking at job listings SAS (and to a lesser extent R) seems to be the most common, but Stata is much more common in graduate-level economics, so that’s what I was taught in college. This has been really helpful. Thanks for responding!

      2. I have a similar background and went on to a PhD in Econ. I think there is a distinction here. There is marketing – which is (from what I have seen), rather “soft” in the sense that there isn’t a lot of hardcore data analysis happening. A related but different field, which might be what you are thinking of, is what I would call customer analytics. This is using data and statistics to understand buying patterns, price responsiveness, optimal promotions, etc. If you gravitate more toward the marketing side (i.e. putting together ad campaigns, branding, etc.) then I unfortunately know nothing! But if you are more interested in customer analytics type work, SAS is great to know. It’s a common issue that R/Matlab/Stata are used in graduate school because that’s what professors know and they are free. HOWEVER – if you are interested and since you work for a university, SAS offers free software (web-based, I think) to educational institutions. It’s something to look into. I would also suggest getting to know your database technologies. SQL is really really useful for lots of things. Hadoop seems to be the new thing, but I don’t know much about it. And work on your basic knowledge of marketing theory, the components of demand, etc. which will help in interviews. Good luck!

  15. Jumping on the dating question wagon. Back in December, while on an erstwhile dating break, I started hanging out with a great guy. I like him a lot–similar values, similar interests, and we just clicked really well overall and felt very comfortable and happy together. So we got fairly serious fairly quickly. Mid-way through January, he said he didn’t think he could handle a relationship right now, because of what I would consider valid personal reasons; he handled all of that in an open, polite, and respectful way. He said that he would love to stay in touch, and that while he acknowledged that he didn’t have the right to ask me to wait around for him, basically said that once he’d gotten through the personal stuff (which has a fairly defined end date in 3-4 months) he hoped that we would be able to get back together. I said I wouldn’t wait for him, but that I would be open to hanging out again once both of our emotional levels had settled down.

    So after a break from communicating for a few weeks, we have now settled into a fairly mellow pattern of getting a coffee once a week or so. And it’s been nice. He makes me laugh and is a great listener, and is all around a pretty cool human that I like having in my life. But I don’t know if I’m being a crazy person by continuing to have this contact. I feel like I can’t 100% get over him while I’m having weekly reminders of how he’s great, but at the same time, eh, I don’t know what will happen in the future but currently I’d be okay with chilling for a bit and seeing how things shake out this spring? Since I was planning to be on a break from actively dating when we started hanging out, anyway? I’ve never had a let’s-stay-friends situation not turn out to be a flaming fireball of disaster. RL friends are split on whether us continuing to hang out platonically is a recipe for said flaming fireball of disaster. Hive, please advise.

    1. Me personally, I think 3-4 months isn’t that long to wait in the scheme of things, and if you were going to be on a dating break anyway, why not give it a try? Just make sure you don’t let it drag on much past the estimated end date.

    2. I’m not really getting any red flags, and it seems like his intentions are honest and well-meaning. I will say that I also normally think that people continuing to hang out when a relationship didn’t work will usually turn out badly, but your situation sounds pretty healthy. I think as long as you don’t feel like you’re missing out dating other people (since you were on a hiatus anyways) and you don’t feel that you each have different expectations, it sounds pretty harmless.

  16. Hey everyone, just thought I would get some thoughts on this situation.

    About 6 years ago when I started law school, I rented an apartment with a couple roomates. Over the years, those roommates moved out, others moved in, the others moved out and still newer people moved in, etc.

    Eventually, when I graduated in 2011, *I* moved out and my BF took my spot. He currently has one “new” roommate (“Marcie”) and one who was there when he moved in (“Louise”). I still visit and stay there regularly and a lot of my furniture and household items are still there.

    The apartment is awesome and quite cheap. Some time within the next year or so I am hoping to move back in (depending on a job situation) and I would like both the roommates to move out so my BF and I can have it to ourselves. (Even though it’s a 3BR, because the rent is THAT CHEAP, and I think it will stay cheap based on what I know about the landlord, plus I am kind of attached to the place now).

    However, I feel guilty asking them to move out. Obviously, we would give them as much advance notice as posible, help them carry their stuff down the stairs, etc. I know that Louise, at least, would be unhappy about it because right now she can walk to work and she’s pretty cheap so I don’t think she ever plans on getting her own place. Marcie may well be ready to move on by then anyway, not sure.

    Is it fair to ask people to leave in these circumstances (or any circumstances)? Would it be more fair if my BF and I agreed to compensate them by say lowering their share of the rent for the last several months they stay? Has anyone dealt with a similar situation and if so how did you handle it?

    1. FWIW, I mean to give them several month’s advance notice, as in, in advance of the next time it’s time to renew the lease.

    2. I don’t think you can tell them to move out. You can ask nicely to see if it’s a possibility, but if they say no, you’re kind of stuck. Unless you’re on the lease and they’re just subtenants, I’m not sure that you have any greater right to the apartment than they have.

      From a legal perspective, there may be a number of issues you’d need to look at to see if you could get them out. From a nonlegal perspective, I’d say you should likely ask nicely and not tell them to leave, otherwise Louise will probably get chippy with you.

      1. Thanks, I am pretty sure we don’t have a legal argument, I am just thinking about the fairness issues. I do think if we wanted to be really shady about it, I could convince the landlord to draft up a new lease just for us to begin when the current one ends, but I don’t think that’s exactly legal (even if Louise and Marcie wouldn’t challenge it) and it’s definitely not fair.

    3. Who is on the lease? If it’s his name only, I think you can ask them to leave with a few months notice. If everyone is on the lease, I think everyone has equal right to live there and you would to a discussion with both your roommates and the land lord regarding possible next steps.

      1. Everyone is on the lease.

        So in these circumstances, if we are just going to work something out amongst ourselves, what would be fair for us to offer them to move out? I am thinking, the cost of a moving van and a day’s worth of help loading/unloading that van, plus free utilities and $100 per month of their share of the rent for their last 6 months in the apt,plus if they want to move out before the end of the lease we won’t hold them to any of their share?

        Obviously, they don’t have to accept this or any deal. But I am trying to think of what would be fair and reasonable, and maybe they will take it, and maybe we all live hapily ever after?

        FWIW, Lousie made jokes when I moved out about how I would move back in some day and kick her out, not sure how seriously she thought about that issue.

        1. Yeah, that seems like a nice offer.

          I think if you sit everyone down and very nicely and politely pose this as a request, i.e. be careful not to sound like you deserve this or have any expectations, and propose this deal in exchange for getting the apartment AND make clear you are open for a counter offer. And that they don’t have to decide right now they can think about it. IF you all have a mature, adult roommate relationship with good communication, this is totally fair to bring up as a request.

          They of course have the right to say no, which you understand, in which case you will have to come up with a Plan B for the two of you living together.

          If, however, you all have a history of defensiveness and passive aggressive fighting (like some houses I’ve lived in) this is a recipe for a flaming fireball of disaster (thanks anon sequiter!) and i would not even think about bringing this up.

          Only you can know if your group relationship is the kind that can accomodate this kind of negotiation. But I think the fact that you want to go into it acknowledging that this isn’t the best deal from them and you definitely plan to give them additional compensation in exchange, then this is definitely a “fair” proposal. If you were my roommate, I would have no problem having this conversation with you and I would still be your friend ;o)

        2. If this apt is really such an amazing deal, I am not sure how they would receive your proposal. If this truly is a huge deal, $600 may not cut it in terms of enticement in a HCOL area. That could be eaten up in a month or two in their new more expensive/less nice place.

          I think you can always ask, but I would be prepared for their answer to be no.

        3. It seems like a fair offer, but I’d feel really weird if I were one of the roommates. I’d feel like I had to take it because otherwise it would be awkward to refuse and keep living there. But I’d also feel resentful about getting kicked out of my own home. So either way, I think if I were one of the roommates, I wouldn’t feel too warm and fuzzy toward you and your boyfriend after you made the offer. I get that this apartment is really cheap, but do you and your boyfriend really need 3 bedrooms? It seems like the right thing to do if you want to live together is to find a new one bedroom apartment and both of you move in there. But maybe I’m being oversensitive about all this.

          1. I think it really depends whether these are friends that you want to keep or just roommates that you want to leave without torching your stuff. I feel like you can’t do this if they are friends, but that your proposal could probably get them out relatively civilly. I feel like you’re offering a reasonable deal if they were thinking of moving on in the near future anyway, but I agree with TBK about the risks.

            Another option is to move in and share a room with BF, then slowly take over portions of the lease as people leave. Announcing your plans or asking to do it may be enough to prompt at least one of them to say that they’ve been considering moving on when the lease is up.

          2. That’s what I am concerned about.

            Just a side note – in fact, it is so cheap that costs about the same as a 1BR with fewer amentities. My other thing is that I am very sentimentally attached to that particular apartment as well for a bunch of reasons (nothing to do with my boyfriend, just personal stuff; it was the first place that felt like home after several years of drama and trauma, and it’s still “home” because right now I lhave to move every few months for work, hence why all my stuff is still there, and it has been “home” for over 5 years) but I know that’s no one’s problem but mine.

            Thanks everyone for givine me stuff to think about. I guess we will just see what happens with my job and if I have the opportunity to move back in, simply ask the roommates what their plans are for when the lease ends and have a conversation from there.

          3. +1

            Whether you go for one bedroom or more is your your business, but it seems like the right thing to do is look elsewhere since you all have a right to be there. It’s really putting the other roommates in a tough spot for no true need.

    4. How on earth would it be reasonable to ask them to move out when they don’t want to? Just because you saw it first?

      1. It would depend on the lease situation. For example, I’m the only remaining “master tenant” on my lease because my original roommate moved out and the management company does not re-write leases for sub-tenants. So, my new roommate submitted a subtenant application (basically a credit/background check) to the landlord and then signed a sub-tenant agreement drafted by me. I can ask her to leave at any time with 30 days notice.

    6. I’ll be honest, it sounds to me like this is Louise’s apartment, the presence of your stuff notwithstanding, since Louise is the “senior” roommate (her tenancy predates both Marcie’s and your boyfriend’s). There’s no transitive property of tenancy that allows your boyfriend to claim credit for the time you spent in the place.

    7. If they are on the lease, you can ask all you want but they don’t have to move out. Any first year law student who has taken Property would know this. As for whether it’s fair, you already know the answer and asking strangers on the internet isn’t going to make it OK to ask people to move out of their home because you used to live there once upon a time.

    8. Yeah, if we’re all on the lease (actually, THEY’RE all on lease, not you at all) I’m gonna be pissed no matter what offer you make if I’ve shown no interest in moving out on my own volition before this.

      1. This is why i asked “what is your relationship like?” above.

        I have had very communicative relationships with roommates in the past, where we were all clear that there is a certain business aspect to sharing housing, that is not the same as being good friends. And asking a question or request of your housemates is not necessarily personal.

        In those particular housing situations, if someone had sat down and asked if they could take over the lease in exchange for a financial compensation because of their changed plans as a couple, I would not be pissed at all. I would hear them out, go think about it, and feel perfectly comfortable saying yes or no depending on my own plans. And if i said no, I’d be confident that we would all move on without any awkwardness or resentment.

        That is not common, however, with most housemate relationships, I have found. Lots of people have way too much baggage and passive aggressiveness with their roommates. If that is the case with OP and the housemates, she should stop now, do not pass go, do not collect $200 and do not even think about bringing this up ever, because it will be a flaming fireball of resentment and hurt feelings.

    9. How long do you think they will stay? It seems like there have been a number of people cycled through there. Maybe you could just wait them out and not have anyone new move in to replace them.

  17. Omg, you guise, who’s excited for NUDE PUMP weather? I can’t wait until the snow clears and my nude shoez can go pitter patter on the lush green grass!!!

    1. You can wear them RIGHT NOW if you also wear FLEECE TIGHTS!!!

      From Walgreens!

      1. OMG, I walked into Walgreens last night and the first thing I saw was fleece leggings. I started laughing so hard, I’m sure the other people at Walgreens thought I was nuts.

        1. LOL :)

          BUT – wouldn’t I need *NUDE* FLEECE TIGHTS? Do I have to go to CVS for those?

      3. +1! I was surprised earlier today when I saw that there was such a thing as nude pump seasons.

    3. I am, genuinely, excited for nude-pump-weather. Also, running-outside-weather, not-wearing-coats-weather, not-boots-weather, etc.

  18. Why can’t a month go by without my screwing up some stupid thing? And each time it happens, I freak out even though most of the time it’s not a big deal. I’ll end up beating myself up about it for hours, but I know my male coworkers make similar mistakes and never think about it. And it’s not like I don’t get good reviews, so I shouldn’t be worried about losing my job. Most days, I don’t get why I wanted to be an attorney. I should have picked a career that was easier/less stressful/less time consuming – A nice 9-5 that I didn’t always have to worry I was going to mess up.

    Ok, rant over.

  19. Okay, this is probably too late to get a response, but I’m very interested in skin care (and real, quality, skin care, not gimmicky crap). I used to teach a lot of Korean students, and I’ve been reading a lot about Korean skin care brands and want to try some products. Anybody here have any recommendations of stuff that is (a) available on Amazon and (b) is good for medium to dry skin?

    I use a prescription retinol, a topical antibiotic, an oral antibiotic and an oral hormone blocker at present, in case that affects your recommendations.

  20. Is this appropriate for work (industry = inv bank)? May be not for a client meeting or interview but can we wear this on a regular day?

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