This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Workwear sales of note for 3.22.23:
- Ann Taylor – Up to 40% off full-price pants and shirts; extra 30% off all sale styles
- Athleta – 20% off shorts, swim, linen & more
- Banana Republic Factory – 40% off everything; extra 15% off purchase
- Boden – Up to 50% off
- Brooks Brothers – Clearance styles to 70% off. Some pretty serious markdowns!
- Express – Extra 40% off clearance for up to 60% off
- J.Crew – 25% off your purchase; up to 50% off special-occasion styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 50% off everything; extra 15% off 3 styles; extra 20% off 4 styles; extra 50% off clearance
- Sephora – Up to 50% off select beauty
- Talbots – 25% off regular-price dresses, skirts, accessories & shoes
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
- What are your favorite parts of a typical day?
- At what point in your life (age, income level, whatever) were you able to take an annual vacation?
- What shoes can I keep at the office to go for mid-day walks (that go with everything)?
- How do you release stress or trauma that’s stored in the body?
- What are the best “networking for women events” you’ve ever been to?
- I feel like we’re burning through any savings we acquire…
- I hate my job and make 30% of what DH makes – should I quit?
- What do you keep in your office?
I love this, especially as an alternative-to-the-alternative to the pencil skirt!
I like this one a lot.
Ditto, it’s really cute!
Great Pick, Kat! And I agree with tesyaa, Yay!!!!
Any skirt that is flaired is MUCH more forgiveing then a pencil skirt to peeople like me who sometimes have a probelem with pencil skirt’s that get to tight in the tuchus! I think that wearing this (or a POODEL SKIRT) with a heavy sweater will make me look like the high school chearleader I wished I could be — all I would need are SADDEL shoe’s! YAY! But I rembember in high school that guy’s always were abel to lift these dresses up to see our underwear, but if we ever had worn pencil skirt’s in high school, that would NOT have been possibel! YAY!
Today I took the 6 train in again — it was raining and I did NOT have my fitbit, b/c the cleaneing lady said she was not comeing back over until this weekend. Dad is mad that I will not be abel to be monitored remotely by him until then. He says my tuchus is already to big and a week off is NOT doeing me any favors. Well other guys’ do like me and my tuchus.
Sam said that my tuchus was in great shape–he saw me at the Superbowl party and mentioned to me that he is lookeing to find and settel down with a sensibel girl like me who is both pretty and intellighent. Myrna said he was right and told Sam how smart I was at my job. She also told him I could cook! I supose that compared to Brit’s, I am a gourmet, but that is NOT saying much. I have take out menu’s in my apartement for all the place’s that deliver, so that is not that far off. YAY!!!!
The IRS guy is comeing by at 10, so the manageing partner is pestering me to get off my computer and freshen up in the toilet, but Frank has been in there since I came in at 9. I do NOT know what he doe’s in there, but I generally prefer NOT to go in there right afterward’s. FOOEY! If need be, I will have to go out in the hall now and use the hall bathroom. I just do NOT want the maintenence guy’s stareing at me when I go into the batheroom, or worse, when I am in the stall. DOUBEL FOOEY!
Me too! Found it at the Bay for any interested Canadians (obviously at a higher price) – http://www.thebay.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/en/thebay/womens-apparel/skirts/fit–flare-skirt
The Bay page gives the length as 20″ which is good for actually hitting the knee or just above. I may go track it down at lunch..
Oops, hit “report” instead of “reply.” Sorry, Kat!
Anyway, thanks for the report on the length, Marilla. I was wondering about that and your post pushed me over the edge to click “order.”
Sizing rant: I ordered 2 Halogen seamed skirts from Nordstrom on sale. The 6P is flattering but a little tight; the regular 6 is huge and too long. I guess I need an 8P? It’s all moot because the sale sizes are almost all sold out, but I can’t think of another brand where the petite and regular sizes are sooooo different. Has anyone else had the same experience?
This is the same experience I had – size 4 was pretty big, but 4P was tight (probably 1.5″ less in hips and waist) and shorter. I’m 5’7″ and think the 6P fit much better in terms of length and proportions.
If you really like it, and tailoring isn’t going to add too much to the cost, get the 8P and have it taken in as needed?
I find that Loft regulars/petites are pretty all over the map. As are Coldwater creek–but who starts their sizes at 4 or 6P? They’ve basically eliminated an entire market segment of women.
Killer Kitten Heels
Vince Camuto is like this as well – I have to go down a size from my usual size in their “regular” clothes, and up a size from my usual size in their petites (I’m 5’2″ and a half or so, so I’m right on the line between regular and petite, and go back and forth depending on the cut/style).
Ahh, this makes so much sense now. I ordered the Vince Camuto mini in a petite as I wanted it to hit me at the knee (tall, but shortish legs) and it is strictly date night only territory.
Yes! The petites fit me perfectly, but both times I have succumbed to the lure of the regular size (when the color I wanted wasn’t available in petite), the regular has been unworn because it just plain doesn’t fit right.
I guess I’m not so mad at ’em for having the sizing run so different, as I am for not having all the colors in both size ranges. Grrr.
I’m confused – isn’t that the point of petite sizing? That it runs a little smaller everywhere?
Some manufacturers make petites a little smaller everywhere, some just make them shorter. And since the 6P seemed a lot (not just a little) smaller than the regular 6, I was just wondering if this is “normal” for Halogen… and I guess it is. No biggie, it’s all returnable.
Petite is more about proportion than it is about height. Good manufacturers won’t just shrink the hem length and sleeve length. Instead they will use a scaled down print, change the darts, as well as shorten sleeves and hems. A 5’7″ woman may fit into a petite size if she has a shorter torso or shorter legs. Unfortunately many manufacturers just shrink the hem and call it a day.
Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler
Poor Lady Edith; can’t she ever catch a break?
Well, considering the fate of her sisters, I am not sure she is doing that badly.
I think in the 20’s death was preferable to being an unwed mother!
Rude. Some of us haven’t watched it yet.
It’s aired, it’s fair game.
+1 on Mpls, and the commenter used “Spoiler Alert” as a username.
‘Sides, it’s not like it’s the end of that story line. I’m sure you’ll have additional plot points to discover.
People who feel the need to say “spoiler alert” are rude – they acknowledge they shouldn’t be saying what they are about to say! If this was a TV blog, I’d say fair game but given that it’s not and the reasonable person isn’t expecting to see Downton spoilers here, it’s inconsiderate.
Nope – it’s aired, it’s in the universe, it’s fair game. Spoiler Alert tags are trying to be polite because they are cognizant of the deferred viewing culture, but want to say something anyway because they know that there are other people that didn’t defer viewing.
You choose to defer your viewing. The internet doesn’t owe you anything because of that.
Any advice on how to focus and put up a good front when you really just want to go home? I had the flu last week and my 17 year old cat died Monday. Not to mention work is truly not going well. Since I missed 4 days last week, I don’t feel like I can miss any more work, but I’m very sad about my cat. I haven’t told anyone about him because I can’t talk about him without crying and I don’t think many people will understand (I don’t exactly work with friendly people.) So how do I maintain a good enough front? Like I said, I’m on thin ice as is, so I can’t really just close my door and withdraw.
I’m so sorry about your cat. No advice, but hugs. It is so hard to lose a beloved pet.
I’m so sorry to hear about your cat. I remember when I was really young and our cat of 19 years died, and our whole family was devastated.
Can you go out to lunch? I feel like having someone to look forward to like meeting a friend for lunch or going somewhere yummy can make the mornings go by quickly for me. After that, maybe just try to power through – make a list of all the tasks you need to accomplish and try to stick to them to make the time go faster. Maybe watch some funny youtube videos in between to keep your spirits up? Just suggestions of course, sending you hugs! You can do it!
I know this isn’t a great answer (I’ve been there with losing a beloved cat and not being able to talk about it), but my SO always said that even when he was feeling like crap, he would just say to himself, “It’s showtime” and fake it if he had to until he could get home and let down. It’s not the greatest way to have to be, but it can work. One thing that works for me is to make sure I’m dressed in a way that makes me feel good and feel confident. Sometimes I’ll even wear studded heels when I want to feel particularly [email protected]
Killer Kitten Heels
I like “it’s showtime”.
I also tend to mentally replay the clip from Finding Nemo where the Ellenfish is all “Just keep swimming, just keep swimming,” and that helps.
Oh my gosh. If I had a dollar for every time I have said those exact words — “It’s SHOWTIME!” — I wouldn’t be so worried about the attorney fees I’m paying! And yes, lookng good helps, too.
So sorry for your loss, Toffee. (My first kitty was named Taffy and your post makes me think of him in more ways than one. Hugs.)
I’m so sorry to hear about your cat. No advice, but sending hugs and I hope things get better on the work front.
+1. It’s so hard to lose a beloved pet!
Toffee, I am so sorry about losing your fur friend. I wish I could do something to make you feel better. Just take is one moment at a time and if you think people are picking up on a weird vibe, just tell them you are still under the weather. Hugs.
Sorry about the cat! If it’s possible, I think either acknowleding that (a) you’re still under the weather (you really can’t get over a flu in a week), and/or (b) that there has been a death in the family could help if you’re really having trouble at work. That way people know and can respond in kind, or if they are as horrible as it appears, then you know.
I would just hate for work to not know and then just assume the worst because most people get wrapped up in their own lives and forget that Toffee had the flu last week.
Be your own advocate! We support you!
I am so sorry about your kitty. I have an old cat myself and I can’t even imagine what I will do when she goes (I’ve had her since I was in junior high). Blame it on the flu or weather if you think people at work won’t be understanding (although you may be surprised at how supportive people can be) and take time to do something nice for yourself every day.
Thanks, everyone. This site is always so supportive! I ended up telling a couple of people I still feel worn down from the flu. It just isn’t the type of place where people miss work for illness. Ugh.
So sorry! And if people really don’t miss work because of illness, your coworkers must either conveniently get sick only on weekends/holidays, be cyborgs, or be spreading around so many germs this time of year, it’s not funny. *hugs*
I’m so sorry about your cat :( I lost my beloved kitty back in 2007 and I seriously cried myself to sleep for a month. I still have her ashes. Let yourself grieve. If you really can’t cope maybe you could say your flu symptoms have returned and you need to work from home for a couple days.
Just saw that “It just isn’t the type of place where people miss work for illness”…what about ordering yourself some flowers or an edible arrangement? I also like the “just keep swimming” comment. :(
Toffee, I am so sorry about your cat. I really had a hard time (developed shingles) after my 19 year old cat died. Some people understand, others do not. I can really relate. I don’t have any advice, just make it to the weekend and remember your sweet memories. Time will help you smile with them instead of cry.
The weather where I am today is absolutely rotten. We’ve gotten 6 inches of snow so far and another 6 are expected by tonight. A State of Emergency has been declared and everyone has been told to stay off the roads; however, I work for the government (very same one who declared a State of Emergency) and we NEVER close.
After a very rugged commute, I get into work only to find that our email server is completely down. Now I’m seriously wondering why they had us come in.
Rant over, I’m just frustrated. Now there’s talk of letting people go home early but having to charge sick/vacation time. I really feel like I need to at least stay a few hours to make that horrid commute in worth it.
Sorry, that sounds ridiculous and frustrating. Be safe.
Ugh, that sucks. We had really bad weather where I live too. This winter is unending! It might be worth staying for a bit just b/c it might give crews more time to clear the roads. I hope the commute home is easier!
Us too. I’m so done with winter! I choose to follow whichever groundhog didn’t see his shadow.
We’ve got at LEAST 2 more months here. March is the usually the 2nd snowiest month of the year (it finally gets warm enough to snow the heavy wet stuff). Last year, it snowed in April and May, so who knows. We’ll have 10 hours of daylight/day by the end of the week though.
Welcome to cabin fever!
Sorry!!! I am “working from home” today with all the kids home and our nanny not able to come in. Guess how much work I’m getting done? (ha)
I find it hilarious (ie terrible) when companies (or governments, apparently) say “Hey, you can totes go home! It’s super dangerous to be driving late, and almost every other business is closed! But ha! You COULD be here, so we’re going to take your vacation time if you leave! LOLZORS.”
Doesn’t State of Emergency mean it’s an emergency, so you should be safe?
srsly!!! It makes me so ragey
I also work for government with the “we never close” mentality. I find that those who make it in spend the day taking attendance, telling tall tales of their harrowing commute, then leave early. So even though they are here, nothing gets done and they get paid while those with the wisdom to stay home get docked a vacation day and are regarded as wimps by the fools who came in.
need more snow
I wish wish wish we had 12 inches of snow in our forecast. My ski season has been a complete and utter bust. The snow we got in November melted due to a prolonged period of above freezing weather. We need about 12 FEET of snow to recover… it’s probably not gonna happen. We usually deal with snow on the ground for 6 months of the year. No snow makes me sad. Booo!!!!
Letting folks go but charging time? That’s not cool. Be safe, and don’t risk it. If it’s gross, go home.
We rarely close, as we are the gubment. But when we do, we don’t require you use sick or vacation time. It’s just admin time off.
It’s just cold and rainy here. Freezing on everything, including the roads now, but it is supposed to get up to 60. Go figure.
Unfortunately, it’s apparently somewhat common to close due to weather but charge time for it, I learned from AAM.
Shopping challenge, if anyone’s interested. I saw a woman wearing this and would love to find it: a brown/tan herringbone sweater blazer (or jacket) with leather elbow patches and bracelet-length sleeves. Seen anything similar? Thanks in advance.
Business Formal -- what is market?
LE had something like this without the elbow patches in the fall. I have the black/white version. It runs large if it is still in stock.
Ralph Lauren (the Lauren by RL line) had something similar in the fall but I don’t see it online anymore. It came with a matching dress. Maybe keep an eye out at your local TJ Maxx?
No elbow patches, but pretty gorgeous in my opinion, if you like brown herringbone.
I was told by the sales staff in Brooks Brothers that herringbone & tweed items come out every fall, so it all goes on sale about this time of year every year…
Business Formal -- what is market?
I have a few days to spend with a client who is business formal. My contacts there are guys and we usually do things by phone, so I don’t have the best read for what to wear.
Are all of these OK?
Suit + button down shirt
Suit + blouse
Dress + jacket, both of the same wool suiting material
— DVF-type wrap dress (but if it is too cold, I can’t think of a jacket / blazer to wear with this and think that a cardigan would make this too casual unless it were something St. John-ish, which I don’t have)
— Sleeveless ponte shift dress + jacket of non-ponte material
For business formal, your first three examples are perfect. Your last two (“what about?”) are not business formal.
Business Formal -- what is market?
Are separates (charcoal pants + blouse + black blazer or The Skirt + stuff) ever business formal? Or dresses sans matching jacket?
I may need to have a Talbots bender — they were my go-to for jacket + pants + skirt + dress that you could really swap around on trips like this.
I thought business formal meant full suit, all the time. So a suiting dress + matching blazer would work but separates would not.
Business Formal -- what is market?
I honestly don’t know anymore. Yes, I think that is a safe assumption, but are there nuances? The nuances escape me. It’s like how my husband doesn’t quite understand how leggings aren’t pants (not for him — we have daughters).
Part of the problem is that I work mostly with guys and they don’t have the crazy array of options we do. And the other part is that while we’re officially business casual, it seems that anything that is wool or a blazer gets a “whoa, are you interviewing” reaction, so my view of things is totally warped. And now that we have denim fridays (and jersey fridays), it’s not too long before I will post a question about what pajamas/gym attire is appropriate in the office.
Killer Kitten Heels
This is what my office means by “business formal.”
eh, I work at a business formal office in NYC and I think a ponte dress plus blazer would be fine. I also often wear a suiting dress with a non-matching, often textured, blazer. Most of the women in my office do the same. This is assuming dark colors like navy, charcoal and black– IMO the real bummer with business formal is that it’s hard to wear color on a significant scale (that is, colorful silk shell under suit = OK, colorful dress = questionable).
Rule of thumb – separates are not business formal UNLESS you have achieved that certain level of gravitas that comes with age/experience/general kick-a$$ery. So Christine Lagarde or Sheryl Sandberg can get away with a dress with a non-matching, kick a$$ blazer in a business formal setting, but you or I cannot.
Within the scope of business formal, I’d say there is more formal (dark suits for important pitches, court appearances, representing your employer at a first meeting with any important counterparty etc etc) and less formal (elements of coordinating separates/ lighter colours/ softer fabrics for every other work day). In fact for the latter, I reckon ‘approachability’ trumps formality. In your case, are you pitching for work (more formal) or executing it for a client who has already awarded you the business (more approachable) ?
I also myself cut myself and my folks a lot of slack for travel days eg. lower heels (discreetly rubber-soled if possible), a dark knit dress, a comfier tank if a suit is really required.
I work in a “business formal office,” which essentially means all the men wear suits and the women…sometimes wear suits. I wear dresses with blazers very often, and I mix separates and I haven’t had any problems. Sometimes I even wear what I would consider to be business casual because I don’t have that many suits. Seems like a “know your office” type thing. I normally just try to wear anything similar to what the other female associate at our office wears.
This is also me. My office is suits for men, jackets on if you’re walking anywhere except the printer. For women… less so. The folks who determined that it was business formal were men, and I think they’re confused by women’s clothing. I frequently end up nearer to business casual (or at least, my business casual). Most of the time a structured dress by itself will count as business formal in my office.
For the OP, I would say it would depend on the kind of people you’re meeting with. I realize how unhelpful that is. I would say bring layers so you can drop the level of formality in an appropriate way – suiting you can wear as separates, bring a dress with a blazer but you might not need the blazer, etc. Then once you get a feel for things you can see where your wardrobe fits in.
Business Formal -- what is market?
Thanks, everyone! I don’t know if you caught the Tim Gunn interview on NPR at lunchtime, but he remarked on how much it easier it was for him, as a man, to get dressed. Per Tim, I will Make It Work :)
Since you mentioned Tim Gunn (love him!), I have to comment on “button down” shirt, which words appears on this site now and then. When Tim appeared on Oprah he was asked to wear a button down shirt, suit and tie. He was confused because ties aren’t usually worn with button down shirts, which are considered more casual than men’s dress shirts that do not have a button hole in each collar tip. That is what a button down shirt is ladies! It has a button hole in each collar tip. But it is increasingly common to see it used to mean a shirt that buttons up the front like a men’s dress shirt. The language changes, I guess…
I think separates depends on your office/environment. Personally I feel well coordinated separates look better and more put together than suits. So many women just look schlumpy in suits because they have to buy the pieces together and so one ends up being ill fitting, not to mention I feel the quality of many women’s combo suits leaves much to be desired. So, you could actually end up wearing a lot nicer, better fitting stuff as separates.
Anyway, I think separates, especially darker and more modestly cut ones are fine. Examples: I have a conservative black sheath dress I wear with a textured gray jacket that has some black trim; with pearls, looks very stuffy and formal. I also sometimes wear the same dress with a cream crepe blazer and a maroon/black/cream silk scarf. Looks similarly stuffy.
Now, my hot pink knit dress and hot pink tweed jacket, I save for other less formal occasions (although I always seem to get noticed while wearing that, which I think tends to be a good thing). ;-) I think separates is a know your office/culture/industry/whatever thing.
Can anyone recommend an ID card holder or lanyard that is bright or noticeable? Something that would be really difficult to lose track of. I need to use my card throughout the day but just to tap on security pads, its never swiped. It doesn’t work through my wallet because that is a metal case. I normally keep it on my desk but I’m not opposed to something that clips to me. I’d love some suggestions!
I keep mine clipped. I typically wear pants, so I will thread the clip through a belt loop and then clamp the clip over the belt loop, so the bulky reel part is pinned behind the belt loop and my belt. If I don’t have belt loops, I will usually just clip it to the waist of my pants/skirt. I don’t like the lanyard as much because then it gets in the way of fun necklaces!
If you are looking for a lanyard that is fun and bright, try etsy maybe? Or a nursing/healthcare supply place
Oh sorry I wasn’t totally clear. I don’t necessarily plan to wear the lanyard. I don’t have to display my badge, just tap it to get through doorways so I’m planning to just continue carrying it. I just want something to make it stand out a bit more in my purse.
Would something like this work?
I think JCrew has these on sale at their stores regularly (so, not limited to Factory stores) — I’m pretty sure I found a hot pink one for like $5 last year.
That is cute!
I have no need for such a thing, but oh my goodness! I want it so badly, in both colors, because… TEH COLORZ!!!
Small Town Attorney
They also have those at Target. And this:
I have one of these for all my store loyalty cards — basically anything I don’t want to keep in my regular wallet. Very handy.
I am actually on a similar quest but I need something that I can loop around my wrist, attach some office keys to, and that will also ideally fit my iphone and let me stash a couple of singles for emergency coffee. The ID part needs to be clear for easy flashing. Something like this comes close (and stores like Nordstrom Rack usually have other options) but I don’t really love it. Looking forward to other suggestions.
What about inserting it in a really bright luggage tag – you know, the kind designed to hold a business card or address card?
A luggage tag is a great idea. I hadn’t thought to look at those. Thanks!
ahhhh…Then the luggage tag idea is a great idea. I don’t carry my purse in my office, but we have a bunch of doors in the office that are still locked during the day, so I carry or wear my badge all the time.
I just bought a pair of the “super opaque” tights at target (hanes brand maybe?) I don’t have any complaints on the shape or the fit or quality, but there’s like a stripe that runs down the inside and outside of each leg. It’s where they naturally crease (when they come out of the wash, they’re not all crazy, they’re pretty tame, but creased along this edge)
Is there any way to get rid of it? It’s not a seam, it’s more like a minor discoloration or a change in the elasticity? I don’t know. I’m probably the only one who notices it, but it annoying nonetheless.
Scrap them and buy better tights?
Need some work advice: I have a client who simply does not understand why complex litigation is a slow process. He sends me emails probably every week and doesn’t send them to the senior partner, probably because he would not respond. I have assured him over and over again that we are working on his file but he continues to send me really rude emails.
Any advice on how to deal? TIA
Have you given him any sort of timeline? Like X stage has a Y deadline, so I don’t expect to hear about the next step until Z date. And then lay out the next couple of stages out so he can see where he might expect to be in 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, a year.
Can you tell him that you’ll give him a monthly report – even if it’s just to say that you are waiting on this response and plan to do that filing once you hear from opposing counsel/the court.
And then bill him for it, of course.
+1 on the timeline and updates.
During one case, the client asked for weekly updates during a fast-moving phase of the litigation (multiple depos each week, etc.). And then he complained that he was being charged a few hundred dollars for us to write the summary, and he told us to just call him if something important happens!
Ouch…. and then bill him for it…. yikes.
Agree with setting out a clear timeline, and regular reports. Considering what you are charging, that is not too much to ask. How in the world you would expect a client to understand complex litigation, and these unbelievably slow timelines? They don’t make sense, are often explained in legalese etc… It is not surprising that many clients think they are being taken for a ride, and neglected. Many times, they are.
As someone who has had frustrating experiences with lawyers, who often charge outrageous fees for every 5 minute email, pad bills, and do not communicate regularly… your lack of understanding comes off as very unprofessional.
You must realize that for most people, lawyer’s fees are the most they will ever spend for a service in their lives. And the issues being dealt with are often very stressful, although they are routine for you. We feel trapped, ignorant and helpless.
I am a physician and I feel there are some parallels. An ounce of compassion can go a long way, especially considering what you are charging. Frustration on your client’s part, represents some failure on your part. They are the client.
He’s not her only client. Six five-minute emails a day is a half-hour of my time. Preparing a summary of the status of the case, depending on the complexity, can take anywhere from a few minutes to an hour. How much unpaid work do you expect to do in a day?
Note that I’m typically not billing while I’m waiting in my physician’s office, where the sign at the desk says not even to ask them about the status of my appointment until the doctor is at least thirty minutes late…
To add, I’m not disagreeing with the concept that communicating status and timelines is important. It is. It’s part of our job – a part the client should pay for.
To add to cbackson’s comment –
I’m in-house, and regularly review bills from outside counsel that include a 5 minute phone call here, 10 minutes to review an email and draft a response there. I have no issue with these items being billed. As long as the time seems accurate for the work (a one line email requiring a one line response =/= an hour of time), then no problems.
I am talking about one unsatisfied client that the OP asked for advice on. And then, reflecting upon my own frustrations when I feel overcharged, with poor service from a lawyer. If that’s how the client feels, then as a lawyer charging hundreds of dollars an hour, you need to re-assess. If there are now 5 clients a day requesting updates, then you have clearly failed your clients, and you need to re-assess.
I see the legal field does not agree, and as this is a lawyer heavy blog I expected this. Clearly, the clients will continue to be frustrated. I actually do not feel that basic status updates to a client should be billed for. If that basic aspect of service can’t be done with a quick phone call or quick email for a typical one person client, then again…. I feel that there is a system failure here.
Really, you don’t bill while you are in a waiting room? I return pages, update records and dictate when I am waiting…. or sleep… or read to escape…. as my job means many pages in the middle of the night and even a few minutes of time to decompress is a treat. And no, I don’t get paid extra for that and I get no bonuses and work crazy hours under incredibly high stress. I don’t charge anything for follow-up calls, extra time to answer questions in clinics, and for returning a page or email from my patient that calls in the middle of the night when they have a seizure, or a possible stroke…. or misplace their medicine.
But we really can’t compare our lines of work, so please do not try to. When my patients are forced to wait in the waiting room for me, it is because someone in clinic has had a difficult problem, new diagnosis or may even be dying and I am trying to give them the time and attention they need. And when you are in that position… because all of us will be some day…. I will give it to you too. If that is not what you want, you can see another doctor.
But when we start the process with a lawyer, spending thousands of dollars in no time and then we feel utterly trapped, it is not easy to change lawyers. It is not easy to express our frustration, as we fear that our lawyer will then start to neglect us even more.
That’s how I feel, as a client.
Look, this is clearly a sensitive topic for you. Ultimately, the question is whether an attorney deserves to be paid for her work or not. You’re asking us to practice law for free, not in the public service context, but with respect to clients who are paying. Yes, status updates are part of the job, and the job should be compensated. Your own frustrations with your payscale and the uncompensated work that you do aren’t really relevant here, although I’d respectfully suggest that you sound fairly unhappy with respect to how you’re paid for what you do.
And FWIW, you’re the one who compared practicing law to being a physician, in your own comment. I’m on the receiving end of a lot of medical attention, and I don’t expect my doctors to work for free (particularly when they’re giving me the bad news that, trust me, I’ve already gotten). In fact, I’d rather they were fairly paid and happy with their compensation, because the service will be better.
For what it’s worth, patients with a high deductible – like me – see our pre-discount medical bills. Lawyer bill padding is nothing to what I paid for a roll of gauze in the emergency room, trust me.
There are different fee agreements, so when someone says “it’s billable” as an attorney, that doesn’t necessarily mean the client will get directly billed for it (if that makes sense). If the client is on a retainer or a contingent fee agreement, he might never see that time. If a partner is discounting the time, then the partner will know that the attorney worked that time (if it’s billed) but the client may never see it.
I know it can be really frustrating as a client, but if the client has an hourly fee arrangement, then they have to pay for the lawyer’s time, even if it’s 6 minutes of that time. I’m sorry you seem to have had an experience with a lawyer that seems to have padded bills – some lawyers don’t understand that we see clients when they’re vulnerable. No one wants to need a lawyer’s services (much like no one wants to go to the doctor if they think something is wrong!). But because of our pay system, we really do have to bill all our time. Either another lawyer or the client needs to know what we spend time doing. I can’t spend a half hour responding to multiple client’s emails and then not charge anyone for it.
To me there’s also the fact that he is being rude. If you are respectful and a good client, I will probably “forget” to bill you for a quick status update, even though my fee agreement contains minimum billables for email/phone calls/letters. But if you are continuously rude to me, I will bill for each and every minute I spend on your case.
She’s doing work on his behalf right? He wants the updates, right? He’s likely already getting billed for the weekly phone calls, right? So, yes, he should get billed for the time that she spends drawing up a schedule of dates and milestones in the litigation.
If the partner or someone more senior wants to discount it, that’s up to them, but she should sure as h*ll be marking it as billable to the matter. This isn’t a favor that she is doing for the client, it’s work product. Yes, maybe the expectations should have been stated a bit more up front, but even then the client would still have been billed for it.
+1 on providing a timeline and offering to send updates at a frequency requested by the client. Unfortunately, some clients are just more needy than others, so this may not work. I’d also CC your partner on all responses to rude emails from the client so (1) the partner is aware of them and (2) the client is aware that the partner is seeing these emails.
As for the billing, OF COURSE you bill for this time. It’s one thing if the reason for his checking in is your fault but here it sounds like it is not a fault issue. If the client is requesting something that takes your time, do not give your time away for free. (I think Lean In specifically mentions this in one of her stories – she says “bill like a man”). If the partner wants to cut it, so be it.
To Ouch, I think you may be extrapolating from your experience where it is not appropriate. I’m sorry if you felt overbilled by your attorney. But, OP has every right to charge a client when that client is demanding her time – time that she could be spending billing to another client or just not working.
Physicians are the last people who should complain about billing practices. Their rates are inflated to ten times what they should be so insurance can cut them down. Doctor makes me come in and charges $800 for a twenty minute consultation on a medication I have taken ten times before and refuses to for anything over the phone. Then she orders a $200blood test that isn’t covered and isn’t needed and…oh I could go on…
We will agree to disagree.
I only discussed my profession because the prior poster implied comparisons with law. I am very happy with my income of $109K and I work very hard for it. It is an honor to do what I do and I have no complaints about my career choice. Only about the mess of insurance companies and the shamefulness of our society of leaving its people uninsured for so long when they are their most vulnerable.
But I have a lot of difficulty with people in finance and big law who give very little back to society and rationalize their exorbitant salaries. My Mom worked in big law. Of course some lawyers do good, but to try to rationalize here that corporate lawyers have every right to bill more for a 5 minute email to simply update a frustrated client then a neurosurgeon gets for dissection your brain tumor…. is kinda shameful, don’t you think?
Exaggeration does not help here. Of course no physician makes $800 a visit, or charges it. No doctor bills that, and even for high clinic visit charges (ex. a surgeon allowed to “bill” $250 for a complicated eval, which I disagree with)….. No insurance company pays that. The medical billing system is an utter mess that Obamacare will over the long run correct for the uninsured/underinsured. All prices will fall to what insurance company’s allowed amounts, which will ultimately be Medicare allowed amounts. Our health care system is changing and will soon be similar to other European countries. There is a lot of good in that…. it will be mostly women doctors, working for a middle class wage with years of delayed gratification during their schooling and training with years of debt. The unfortunate thing is we will lose many of our best and brightest from following medicine, as many will choose the easier path with $$$ financial gain of law and finance. But perhaps those shouldn’t have been doctors anyway… who knows.
I think it is very hard for people to sometimes place themselves in the position of their client…. for a doctor to put themselves in the position of their patient…. but that is what you must do every day.
Anon from 1227pm
Ouch – hate the game, if you want, but don’t hate the players.
If you think that it is shameful that a biglaw corporate attorney gets to bill more than 5 minutes of his/her time than a neurosurgeon would, then you have an absolute right to that opinion.
If you think that a biglaw corporate attorney SHOULDN’T bill for their time spent responding to emails or making phone calls, BECAUSE you think that they get paid too much $$ for how little you perceive them to contribute to society, then you’re confusing the argument.
Whether or not someone is getting paid fifty cents, fifty dollars, or five grand for 5 minutes of work, they should get paid for that work. You might not like the amount that they get paid, but i’m struggling to understand why you think it is okay to argue that because they are overpaid, they shouldn’t be entitled to bill someone (accurately) for time spent doing their job.
You choose your own lawyer. You don’t have to choose a BigLaw litigator if you don’t want to pay the bill or find what we do distasteful. I don’t hide my billable rate when a client is considering hiring me. In fact, it’s much more clear when you hire me what you can expect to pay than it ever is going to a doctor. You are right. I am not a neurosurgeon, but I’m comfortable with what I contribute to society. There are lots of lawyers who will take your case for less. You want the BigLaw litigator? Don’t be surprised you pay for the BigLaw litigator.
OP Here – I don’t think I was being unprofessional or disrespectful by my “lack of understanding” – just wanted to get some perspectives and advice – thanks ladies! I will try to update him more frequently even though this litigation is slow-moving (it’s commercial litigation so perhaps less personal than family law!)
I really didn’t want to get into this but Ouch – I don’t think it’s shameful that I bill for my time, which includes emails and phone calls with clients. You may think that corporate lawyers and people in finance don’t contribute to society but (aside from that being offensive), I think there are a lot of ways to contribute to society. I won’t deny that corporate law has its limitations but it is important in a lot of senses – supporting businesses contributes to the economy which is good for everyone! You can’t compare law and medicine as being apples-to-apples – they serve very different purposes and have very different billing procedures and it’s for good reason.
I’m glad you feel like your work is honorable but I work really hard for my money and I resent the implication that I should discount the work I do on behalf of certain clients because it’s “shameful”
On a more positive note, Thank you ladies for the helpful suggestions – I will try to implement them!
Another point to Ouch… many (not all) firms require associates to account for a minimum amount of time per day (mine requires 7 billable hours per work day entered into our billing system). If we are spending time responding to client questions, how would you suggest we account for that time? Options are bill the client or put time in a “billable number” that basically says to our employer, I spent 0.5 hours not working.
It sounds from your comments that you feel underpaid compared to attorneys. Maybe you are. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that attorneys are over-paid or are cheating their clients.
Also, part of the reason attorneys in biglaw are paid so much and bill so much is because every single one of them is on call all of the time. All of their clients have the ability to reach them almost immediately via phone or email. That may be true for some doctors, but I’ve never encountered one in my personal experience.
I’d send the client an email outlining the litigation process. If the court has set any deadlines or hearing dates, tell the client what those dates are. You could also develop a task list with internal deadlines and send them to the client. I’d also include the senior partner and/or the relationship partner in these communications.
+1 to everything.
Definitely agree as to status reports that include anticipated lit events, ie depos, motions etc. Status reports may also include budgets for the litigation as well as timelines. Managing client expectations is really difficult though.. I would bring it up with the partner who has the relationship.. you may be drafting the status updates and doing the day to day management but it’s the partner who ought to be fielding big picture questions about the status of the case or giving you some insight as to how to frame the issues for the client. The partner should probably be CC’ed on the status emails as well so that he/she is up to speed in case billing issues arise. What do you mean by “rude” emails?
I’ve been on both sides of this.
I think a weekly inquiry is more than reasonable. I know that currently, as a litigant in a divorce action, I really want to talk to my lawyer every. single. day. and if I limit myself to an email inquiry once a week I feel like I’ve really been incredibly restrained.
I’d also be interested in hearing exactly what you mean by “rude” emails.
I think now that you know this client’s tolerance for “no-contact period” is one week, it would be more than reasonble to have a conversation in which you agree that you will send an email update or call with an update every week no later than X time. And yes, charge for it for sure. It’s part of the service.
That said, however, I love and adore my lawyer beyond all reason, and one of the reasons is that he doesn’t charge for some of my calls. If you put it on the bill and write “no charge,” your client’s hear will swell with love and appreciation. (And yes, that’s a partner-level decision, but maybe you and the partner should have a little chat about it.)
Heart. You client’s heart will swell with love and appreciation.
I really agree with your second-to-last paragraph, and that’s a good way to express it – determining the tolerance is key. Some clients just want to hand things over and never think about it again, and some need more hand-holding. Ultimately, we’re in a client-service business, so figuring out where this person falls and managing to that is part of the job.
We’re all busy/stressed and often wish no one would bug us, but that is definitely part of the job. We are a client-service business, and sometimes we forget what is “reasonable”. Of course, clients do to, but then they must be educated without “punishing” them by upping the billing. To dismiss the clients need is disrespectful and paints us with arrogance, even if that isn’t our intent.
Send updates every 1-2 weeks no matter what. Even if things are not interesting. Send updates.
I need a water bottle recommendation. I know this was covered a few months ago to varying success but hear me out. Basically, I’m looking for a narrow-mouthed Nalgene that won’t leak or sweat in my bag because I walk from home to work to class and back home. Does such a bottle exist?
Try an Insulated Hydro Flask–it’s double walled, so it will not sweat. Pricy but perfect. I love mine.
Target!! Used daily, zero leaks.
Search REI for “insulated water bottle.”
oil in houston
I bought one from coach on sale and love it! it’s in metal so not insulated, but is leak-proof!
Got to give a shout out to my La canadienne “passion” boots. I’ve been wearing them all winter on my NYC commute and even today arrived with dry feet. Plus, they look nice. I was hesitant to pay the $300 or so but it has been really worth it.
Totally agree. Chicago girl here, trudging in snow. I love mine (different style though). They are even fashionable enough I can wear them all day in the hospital and they feel great.
Yay! I have these exact boots too! :)
Reposting because you may not have seen my comment on your post yesterday. Your progress is amazing!
kjoirish, could you elaborate on what approach you take at the gym? Do you focus on lower weight at greater speed, or push yourself to use as much weight as posssible?
I’ve been trying Crossfit for about half a year now, but my clothes actually seem to fit worse than before. I may just be overindulging after workouts, but I don’t think my eating habits have changed so drastically compared to pre-Crossfit, when I only sat at a desk all day. While I have seen some of the men slim down, many of the women that I see at my gym are already strong, and only seem to get bigger and stronger. I’d love to hear from a woman who actually lost weight with Crossfit.
Dang it, I hit report instead of reply.
Anyway, are you sure it isn’t muscle you’re gaining? I was doing boot camp for 4 months before my wedding and I was annoyed that my clothes were fitting tighter. I did before and after body fat tests (the caliper test – most accurate type) and found that I had actually lost 6% body fat so it was just muscle gained. I only lost 1 pound over that 4 months but I converted a bunch of fat to muscle.
I don’t think you’re going to lose weight with crossfit/bootcamp type workouts unless you have a significant amount of weight to lose. Are you overweight or just want to tone up? I would recommend long runs/swims/hikes/biking to lose weight. Maybe combine more cardio in with your Crossfit.
Also, for weight loss it’s calories in versus calories out. That’s why a lot of people say weight loss is 80% diet and 20% exercise. It takes a lot more time to burn 500 calories than it takes to eat 500 calories (unfortunately). I eventually had to get my mind out of the “must lose 5 pounds” mind set and into, look at this fabulous progress – I weigh exactly the same but I loste 6% body fat.
Calories In/Calories Out has been categorically debunked. People metabolize different kinds of calories differently. Google is your friend if you don’t believe me.
I do believe this. For me it’s chocolate. If I eat chocolate I gain weight. Whereas if I eat an equivalent amount of calories in sugary candy I won’t gain weight. I guess it could be the fat content in the chocolate vs. low fat candy. But the low fat candy should be converting from sugar to fat in my body anyway since I’m sitting at a desk. Apparently my body metabolizes straight sugar better than straight chocolate. I realize the studies show more about people who gain weight from eating healthier food, not candy.
Luckily, even if you gain weight, you should still be able to fit into your fleece tights from Walgreens. They are pretty stretchy/forgiving.
Oy. It has not been categorically debunked. Certain foods may trigger you to eat more or certain foods may trigger you to be full longer, but the measure of a calorie as a unit of energy that your body then uses to function resulting in either a deficit or a surplus that leads to thermodynamic fat loss HAS NOT BEEN DEBUNKED. Certain bodies need more or less units of energy both because of resting metabolic rates (which can fluctuate) and level of activity, but this doesn’t mean that the idea that calorie = energy and energy is either used or stored is fundamentally incorrect.
You may not have figured out the precise formula, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one.
It has NOT been debunked. LOL. You are very confused.
Get back to us when modern physics has been debunked. Because a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. It is a measure of energy. If you expend more energy than you ingest, you will lose weight. 2000 calories of chocolate contains the exact same amount of energy as 2000 calories of spinach. Kind of like the difference between a kilo of feathers and a kilo of lead. Different substance, same mass. Or the amount of energy stored in firewood versus gasoline. Energy is energy. The difficulty is knowing how many calories you expend and ingest for different activities and foods. That’s tricky and often inaccurate. But calories in/calories out is simple physics.
I’m late to the game on this, but maybe some one will read this. The simplicity of “calorie in/calorie out” has been debunked, and yes the laws of thermodynamics still stand. The current paradigm is that your gut microbes do a large chunk of the initial metabolism, then your body adsorbs those metabolites and metabolizes again. Different gut microbes = different types of metabolism.
Ha ha, true story. Thank goodness for tights.
you say you don’t think your eating habits have changed “so drastically.” but even an increase of 200-300 calories a day (so basically a large snack) could be sabotaging your weight loss- you aren’t going to be burning an insane amount of calories at crossfit necessarily. i would start tracking calories if you’re concerned.
I am sure that there are instances of women losing weigh from Crossfit (kjo seems to be at least one) but the overwhelming number that I have seen experienced the same as you–bulking up, particularly in the quads and shoulders. They are stronger and have lower body fat, so Crossfit is very successful for women with those goals. But it sounds like your goal may be overall weight loss and smaller measurements, in which case I’m not sure Crossfit is the ideal workout. The better mix for that seems to be cardio to burn calories (though as mentioned above, calories in are also very key), and yoga/Pilates/barre for lean toning without bulk. Actually, you even have to watch the type of cardio–spin classes with a high resistances and lots of simulated climbing can bulk up legs, and swimming butterfly will bulk up shoulders. Jogging (think cross country, not sprinter) and brisk walking works well for me.
no crossfit for me
The crossfit place near me posts photos of their clients, and the women look like they’re strong, but not lean at all. More like they stayed at their original weight but added muscle underneath, which is fine if that’s what you’re going for. But on top of that my chiro/sports medicine doctor says he’s seeing a lot of crossfit people for injuries, especially people who go from sedentary to “let’s get in shape.” Remember, you never see the injured people at class– they’ve quit and they’re over at physical therapy with me.
and it is true that cf isn’t for everyone. I don’t make any promises of that. Yep, people get injured. I can think of several pretty serious injuries from friends in my gym–a torn achilles tendon, a fall with shin-bruise so jarring that it masked the fact that the girl chomped down so hard on her own jaw that she ended up needing root canals. It happens. No one is immune. I have had several protracted periods of pain & soreness from not using good form, or just pushing too hard. BUT, our coaches are very level-headed and will YELL at you (STOP) if they see something wrong. Our class sizes are usually pretty small, and so a coach can rove the floor and keep an eye on everyone pretty easily.
Killer Kitten Heels
KJ, how do you go about figuring out whether a particular cross-fit gym is a more “level-headed” place vs. the kind of place where someone without a good built-in “stop now before you hurt yourself” reflex could really get hurt?
You just have to try them out. Talk to members and see what they think. It is just happenstance that the ONLY gym in my town is this way. I don’t think I would like it as much if it were one of the overbearing, paleo-pushing, crazy koolaid-drinking affiliates.
Most gyms should allow a free intro session, or reduced rates for trial periods. Our gym corrals potential members every few days for a tour of the gym, an outline of the coaches’ philosophies, usually watching part of a regular workout, and then completing the baseline workout. Read what people are saying about them on facebook–it is probably going to be all good reviews, but you might be able to get a sense of the type of gym from the comments. Comments like: we love it here, we love the people, coaching is so great blah blah blah, is going to be a different sort of gym than comments that are about competitions, ultra-strict whatever, and the like.
But, you just have to try it out. Some offer beginning classes as a part of their schedule, at which there should be a lot more attention to detail and technique and teaching the basics than an intermediate/advanced, or even an all-levels class.
You should interview the gym the same way you would interview anyone else who is a potential fit for you: doctors, hair stylists, counselors, etc. That’s my thinking, anyway.
Thanks for the compliment! It has been a long and hard road.
I don’t particularly focus on one thing or another, at all, at the gym. I use our gym’s programming, and simply scale from there. I have been gone for about 6 weeks or so, so I am building back gradually. Today was 21-15-9 cleans/ring dips. I have an 85# clean, but I scaled waaaayyyy back to 45# so that I could manage to keep up the intensity rather than slogging through with a really heavy weight. Sometimes I will focus more on skill work and use lighter weight (esp. with oly lifts), and I have been working really hard lately on pullups, toes to bar, double-unders and handstands.
I appreciate what the posters above are saying about bulking up vs. losing weight. I have not found bulking up to be a problem for me at all. I was overweight when I started. Borderline obese for my size (BMI of about 28). I had just finished nursing my second son, and so was also going through the weight fluctuations that came with weaning and figuring out how to eat like a normal person again. We had bad food habits at that time, but I was still doing a lot of cooking from scratch at home, but there were a lot more lunches out, and a lot bigger portions.
I think that women who are naturally athletic/low body fat will have a tendency to bulk up more, but when you have so much to lose, it just comes off. I haven’t got big shoulders, or lats or arms, but I do have, and always have had athletic thighs/butt. I was a cross-country runner & soccer player through my teen years. I hiked as an adult. Some running, some biking, but the bulk of my fitness exploits were lower-body almost exclusively. It is true that I can’t fit into a lot of the junior’s pants, and even some misses pants because of the girth of my thighs, but that has been a problem all my life, not just now.
In the beginning, there was NOT a lot of weight lost, but a lot of sizes lost. I went quickly from a 10/12 when I started in Nov 2011 to an 8/10/Medium and stayed there for almost a year. In summer 2012, I was a 4/6, and kept losing. It wasn’t until about early 2013 that I started losing a lot of sizes again. Over the course of about the last 6-8 months I’ve come down to a 0-2-4/S/XS. The BULK of the actual weight numbers lost were in summer 2012. I’ve stayed pretty stable numbers-wise for almost a year–I was at 120-125 in spring 2013. In the last 2 months I’ve dropped below 120 to 115 (without the gym, or changing eating habits–just stability). I am curious to find out what happens when I make it back to the gym regularly again–will I gain weight back in muscle??
Overall, I have not changed my eating habits AT ALL. Except, for eating smaller portions. I just polished off some yummy home-made mac & cheese for lunch…and have a small baggie full of whole baby bell peppers for a snack. I cook (and have done so forever) from scratch at home, using whole ingredients, largely. I don’t forsake any ingredients–everything I like is in my repertoire. I don’t track calories. I simply eat till I feel satiated. And I try my best not to eat any more.
But honestly, I guess it just works for my body type. I’m small, small-framed. I’m 5’2″, size 5.5-6 shoe, and my rings are slightly too large at a size 4.25–that should give you some idea of my structural build. So, putting 160 pounds on that is totally wrong. I still have my tummy fluff & “pleats” for stretch marks, and I don’t think that will ever go away without surgery. But, by and large, crossfit has taken away the rest of the floppy stuff, and has put some pretty tone muscles under my skin. I have cheekbones, I have collar bones. I have oblique muscles that you can see under my skin (before the pleats cover them!).
I think that part of the success of anyone with crossfit is the programming. If your gym focuses on olympic lifts at the sacrifice of cardio, then yes, you probably will be building more muscle than slimming down. However, when you build that muscle, it will shoot your metabolism up 24/7. Our gym has a really varied programming schedule. We’re in a 6-week strength phase now, focusing on building strength–lots of squats, presses & deadlifts. It will change up in 2 weeks, who knows what. They go through cycles, and that’s how it should be. My scaling today allowed me to maintain a high metabolic rate, even though the weight wasn’t heavy. Tomorrow is deadlifts (my favorite), and I will probably slow it down and really focus on building strength by stacking plates on the bar. My current pr deadlift is 205#, but I want to get to 230 by the end of the year.
I think that the things that are being said above me are conventional ideas of “if you want x, you should do y” I don’t think it works that way at all. Running would probably slim me down pretty well, but I hate it, so I don’t stick with it. I think that you can get results you want out of any program or sport or pursuit, so long as you stick with it.
Feel free to page me again!
Thanks for your thoughtful response! I’m not hoping to lose a ton of weight, but I would prefer to be slimmer instead of just leaner at my current size. I suppose I’ll keep trying with the CF a bit longer, but also try to up my cardio, as others suggested, and rein in my diet.
I was looking for a particular post on the bar method blog to explain how it takes time for muscles to somewhat change shape and lie closer to the bone. I couldn’t find the particular post but I’m linking to another one below. I realize CrossFit is different but both strengthen muscles and help you to get leaner. There is a wealth of information on the bar method blog.
I am late on this but will agree with many other posters. For me, Crossfit built bulk but definitely did NOT help me lose weight. There’s not enough cardio and the workout isn’t long enough. It also does not focus on building lean muscle, but rather on bulk. I hated it. On the other hand, I had excellent luck with a boot camp class that was basically an hour of intervals (cardio, body weight exercises, repeat).
Buuut, I know a few ladies who do crossfit and look amazing. I really think it depends on your body type and the way your body reacts to exercise. Mine just needs lots and lots of cardio to tone up. Even if I build muscle underneath the fat, you can’t tell unless I do cardio too.
Thread jack- a colle
A little background- I work for a medium sized company on a very small team. For all intents and purposes, it is just me and my colleague, “Joe”. Joe and I both started at the same time and work on the same types of proejcts. The similarities end there, as Joe is the type to take 2-3 hour lunches and surf the internet, while I am working hard only a few feet away.
About six months ago Joe was assigned a very large, very visible project. He struggled to handle it, and I was quickly pulled in to help by management. As Joe would freely admit, I ended up doing a majority of the project myself. It was extremely important for the company, and a month or so later we both received employee of the month for our contributions.
Fast forward to today, when Joe revealed that he has been selected as company wide MVP based, in significant part, on this project. I congratulated him, but I can’t help but feel betrayed and disheartened by this turn of events. I worked day, night, and weekend on that project to make it successful after he all but gave up on it. Since then, he has turned down several large projects while I have taken on significantly more responsibility.
Part of me wants to speak with my manager and ask why someone received an award based on my project, but part of me thinks maybe that would be viewed as petty. I am already looking for another job, mostly due to the fact that I often feel I am being overlooked and under appreciated, but this was still a big shock.
Sent from my iPhone
It’s not petty. If management had no problem pulling you in to do the work, then they shouldn’t have a problem giving you equal recognition. If you are afraid of being considered petty, think about this: by all accounts Joe should have been viewed as lazy and incompetent and it seems the latter was clear to management (else why bring you in) but instead he gets recognized. Your manager will be more focused on how to adequately answer your very justified question, rather than labeling you as petty.
I hope that is the case, but they seem to love him and I cannot understand why. He literally takes 2+ hour lunches daily, watches YouTube videos for another hour or two, and leaves early/comes late because of his kids at least once a week. Clearly I have some built up resentment because I’ve been doing twice as much work and with nothing to show for it, but this was the last straw. I am beyond annoyed. I am really at my wit’s end. I have always been lauded and appreciated at previous jobs so this has been a big 180 for me and it’s starting to affect my confidence.
Joe is a man
The problem seems obvious to me. He’s a man and you’re not. Management is sexist. They have shown you the glass ceiling. Time to look for another job.
Ironically my boss and boss’s boss are women… but I don’t disagree entirely. One of them in particular seems to dislike other women.
Joe is a man
I believe that a significant number of women are just as sexist as men, even if those women themselves benefit from greater social equality. Sexist women in powerful positions will punish other women’s success. It’s terrible but I think that’s probably what is happening to you. Find another job and leave them high and dry. You don’t owe them anything.
My brand new 27″ imac that I’ve been wanting for TEN YEARS, and was finally able to save up for and buy, just arrived via FedEx and I am seriously considering cancelling my afternoon meetings so I can go home and play with my new toy. AGHH.