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Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Lexington Wool Blazer

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Happy Monday! We've featured some very lightweight wool blazers from Rag & Bone in the past — they were so lightweight that they were more like sweaters. This jacket, like those, is unlined, and you can see in the video how very thin the wool is. I would almost think of this as a sweater blazer that's shaped more like a traditional blazer. I like the grosgrain details along the back, and I'm always a fan of this color — it's a really pretty blue that goes well with both black and navy as well as white and kelly green and lots of other accent colors, like red. If you're not a fan of the blue, though, the blazer also comes in black. It's $550 at Nordstrom and is available in sizes oo–16. Lexington Wool Blazer For lower price points, try this Elie Tahari seasonless wool blazer ($62.52–$398 at Amazon) or this “everyday wool” J.Crew blazer (classic, petite, tall) for $198. For plus sizes, Talbots has a seasonless wool blazer for $209 (also in other size ranges). This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.  

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446 Comments

  1. I have two managers who are both pregnant and due within about 3 months of each other. I’m trying to plan small baby showers for each of them at work. I’ve never planned a baby shower and have only attended one at work, a few years back. Would appreciate any and all advice! What is appropriate to have/do at a work shower (guessing all of the usual games, etc. are a no)? What kind of gifts would be good to get them (note: one is having her first child and the other is having her second)? Should our team all get one gift for each or should we plan to get individual gifts? Any ideas to make the two showers slightly unique and not just the same party a few months apart? Thanks!

    1. How about just cake and a pooled gift? I had a shower thrown for me at work with probably 15 presents and it was really awkward having to open so many gifts – IMO work showers are not a wonderful idea anyway, so if you can make it short that would be best.

      1. Agree. If you have regular staff meetings, consider getting a special treat and giving a single present then. At a former job we would do a pool for a gift card and then buy a few cute small things (toys, sleepers, and a few books. A long shower creates a sense of closeness and informality that tends to invite conversations that should not happen at work, such as asking pregnant person whether they plan to use an epidural (and then judgmental responses whether response is yes or no) and asking married young women when they plan to have kids.

        1. This is a great summation of how it’s weird. Just generally, as well, I don’t like the gendered vibe of a baby shower at work. It’s such a female-coded ritual, but at least off the clock we can choose whether or how to participate.

          1. Agree. The female-coded ritual part is what bugs me as well, especially if the shower is for someone I don’t know well or work with. I’m being roped into this event just because I’m a woman, and expected to a) pretend to care b) deal with getting a gift (this is why group gifts are great- no one has to spend any more free time that they don’t have on this) c) take time out of my day and d) attend an event that frankly is not that fun.

            My work — a small to midsized law firm– does elaborate, decorated baby showers for every pregnant woman– file clerk or partner (which is good! Celebrate everyone or no one). Sometimes a group gift is purchased but people are also expected to get gifts individually. We watch them all get opened. There is lunch and snacks and cake. There are calendar invites and if you do not go, the office “party planner” will come to your office and pressure you into going. It is god awful. I feel the same way about wedding showers.

        1. 100% agree with this – they really are. I had a work shower for my first and while the sentiment was nice, I absolutely hated it. It was so awkward and forced, even though I really enjoyed the company of my coworkers at the time (both partners and associates attended). I’m now pregnant with my second in-house and praying that I won’t be thrown a shower here…

          1. I don’t think there’s a good way not to do it. I had a shower with mostly work people for my first that was held at someone’s home. That was enjoyable. For my second I didn’t want a shower but some coworkers insisted and I had an awkward shower in the multipurpose room. I don’t mean to be ungrateful but I didn’t need anything and I just didn’t want one.

            But there was no stopping it because some of the women who were done having kids really really really wanted to go buy some Baby Gap.

            And now I’m one of those women and I would be really hard to stop me!

            So if you’re gonna do it, be really low pressure, make is simple, and only take money that is volunteered (don’t go around saying it’s $25 per person or whatever – I prefer “give what you like” if you’re asked how much) and keep it to a cake and coffee, no games.

        2. I like the way it is done in my office. No shower, but we pool money for 1 or 2 gifts, sign a card, order coffee and bagels, and everyone gathers in a reception area and congratulates the mom and chats. General counsel says a few nice words about the mom. Whole thing takes no more than 20 minutes.

          1. Yes, this is how it’s been done in my workplace, and it’s fine. No pressure to spend a long time or come up with a ‘good’ gift. The parent gets a target gift card w the cash someone collected, everyone gets a snack, and done.

    2. Why not combine them? No one wants to do two showers. Agree on pooled gift – or small things like everyone gets them a book and then they each get a gift card to where they registered for a couple hundred dollars (depending on the team/collection – but both should be equal)

    3. Skip the work showers altogether. Get a card, offer to let the whole team sign it, and get a big-ticket item from the registry or a gift card. Company or the recipient’s superiors cover the cost, do not solicit money or gifts from the recipient’s underlings.

      2. Yep, this is what we do. We usually do a card signed by everyone, and a gift card to a local baby store (work covers the cost, no donations). Note that we’ve started doing this for fathers too, which I think is a nice touch.

      4. Eh I had a work shower and it meant a lot to me. I agree no games, etc, but I think a shower can be really nice if people are willing.

    5. I disagree on the flat out “skip it” recommendations – think it’s a 100% know your workplace situation. I’ve worked for four companies, 3 in male-dominated fields and offices in case that matters, and in all instances a small something would have been way more appropriate than just a signed card and no “shower.”

      However, if you are going to have one it should be no more than a lunch + gifts, either group or individual. A larger group is a great excuse to pool together and get something a little more substantial from the registry – stroller, car seats, carriers, crib. I know I appreciated that way more than more onesies and books. No games, no cutsey stuff. Just an excuse to have a lunch together and step away from the daily grind of work.

      1. Agree with know your workplace. I work in non-profit, and we hold baby-showers for everyone (men, women, and people adopting). Not having a shower for a person’s first baby would be almost unimaginable at my workplace. Our showers have ranged from having it at someone’s house with light bights and wine to having cake and cookies in the office. How gifts are done is always changing, but I prefer when a collection is taken from the whole department (~30 people) and a gift card if given from usually Target. Individual gifts are always weird to me, especially with vastly different budgets in the department. I mostly wish we would just always do cake in the office with a gift card to wherever they are registered so that everyone got mostly the same thing. Unfortunately, in reality, your title and social status within the office play into it a lot. One gift (higher up) got a Prada diaper purse from just the department head. Another (lower admin) got a $300 gift card from everyone.

    6. Our work “showers” are cake, a few decorations (usually a few of those paper fans from Target and maybe a “welcome, baby” sign), and hanging out with colleagues. We all tell the parent to be congrats and usually have a card for them to open with a gift card inside). Sometimes gifts but we tend to give them to the person just after the party or individually, there’s no expectation to open them. The gift card is donations from coworkers.

      None of our supervisors have had kids recently so it’s never gifting up, except that the legal assistants and front desk usually throw in a bit each. There’s no expectation to, though- we are at a nonprofit and we know it’s not possible for many. The usual contribution is $5-10, $20 if you know the person well.

      1. This is basically what ours are like, and I think it works well. We will also have cards that allow people to provide advice to the parents to be. They have prompts like, the most important thing I learned as a parent was … and the best advice I ever received as a first-time parent was …

    8. I’m 6 months pregnant and have been thinking about this. I work with mostly men and have zero expectations of a shower and would prefer nothing is done. My boss mentioned just buying me a bunch of diapers which is A-Okay in my book. I wouldn’t be surprised if they just give me a gift card or a group gift in our monthly meeting before my leave starts.

  2. Last week there were a couple of posts about the hare for cardigans. I thought I was the only one! Now, what do you wear instead? I have blazers but mine are all too stuffy for summer. Is there any lighter type jacket or blazer you have and recommend (business casual)? Also, just started working in an office after years of WFH – I don’t know what summer office clothes to wear on those forthcoming scorching hot summer days when the AC is cranked up to the max and one has to dress for both. Help!

    1. My office is probably more casual than business casual, but I wear scarves/shawls/wraps. If it’s freezing you can drape them a little more like a shawl to cover your arms. Obviously heavily dependent on your personal style – I doubt this goes well if your favored look is crisp and sleek.

    2. I like an unlined linen blazer. The fact that it gets sort of rumpled means it’s not stuffy.

    3. I think that the finance bros have it right — sweater fleece. I just keep a fleece at work, but am thinking of getting an LLBean sweater fleece b/c I’ve got a gift card there and the fleece is about 20 years old.

      But I am so cold that I just wear blazers year round. Lands End makes cashmere cardigans that I have in several colors. I put one in my bag and use at work.

    4. Honestly I just don’t wear another layer. My office is pretty casual so I can get away with it. I don’t wear sleeveless tops or dresses so I don’t have to wear anything on top. I hate layering.

      1. SAME! When it’s utterly freezing (we have one person who isn’t always there but who requires arctic air conditioning) I have a lap blanket, but otherwise I just wear the dress I wore into work. No layers.

    5. I have two unlined (no polyester!) linen blazers. They are old, but one was from Tommy Bahama and the other Lafayette 148. I also have a cotton jacket from Lafayette 148 that is shaped like a biker jacket and also unlined.

    6. I do wear cardigans but when I want something lighter and woven in warm weather, I wear one of a couple of lightweight unlined linen jackets I own that are shaped sort of like shirts and less like a blazer. I will try to post a link separately, but mine are past season.

    7. I’m wearing a tweedy lightweight coton jacket that’s off white with red stripes and seems like a nice summer layer. Mine is from Isabel Marant, which isn’t cheap (although I got it second hand for a fairly reasonable price) but there are tons of similar options out there. The Cuyana linen moto jacket also seems really gorgeous, but know your office – moto jackets may not be acceptable depending on the level of formality in your workplace.

    8. Sometimes I wear an open chambray (not allowed words ending with up….) shirt. We are definitely on the casual side. I hate the crew neck, twin set type cardigans but I love open cardigans.

  3. We are looking at getting a backyard playset and I’m a bit overwhelmed. Can anyone speak to experience with rainbow, treefrogs, gorilla or cedarworks? We want it to last for a while, so my husband wants to go 5.5 or 6 feet for the platform height (does that ring true to you if you have older kids?) but I’m also concerned with the footprint in our backyard. We definitely don’t want a pool but I guess the alternative is having that much more open space to run around. The playset would take up around forty percent of our grassy area. TIA anyone with opinions! OH kids are 2, 4 and newborn.

    2. We have a Gorilla and, IMO, it is great value for the money. Bought ours in 2012, I think, and it still looks new. (We did restain it once, a few years ago). Definitely go taller than you need right away; you’ll be surprised by how quickly kids outgrow that stuff. Oh, and I think the slide is somewhat less important than other features. No home slide is going to compare with the slides available at a real playground, so they’re less of a draw than the swings and climbing wall.

      I believe Home Depot runs sales on Gorilla playsets in April/May, so now is a good time to buy.

    3. If you’re spending over $1k, go for larger vs. smaller, even if it seems like it will be a little “too big” for your kids for awhile. We bought one when my son was 18 months and by the time he was 5, he was too big for it (both because he was a big kid, and also because it wasn’t physically challenging enough for him).
      My son loved the ones that incorporate a cabin/fort when he played on them at other people’s houses.
      Don’t do anything with installation that will make it tough to de-install the playset if you decide to move. Not everyone considers a big playset to be an advantage when they buy a house. They take up a lot of real estate in a backyard and only people with a certain age of child want them, and even then not every playset is to every parent’s taste. We had friends who for safety’s sake installed their playset using concrete and by the time they went to sell their house, it was old and the realtor recommended removing it. Taking it out really messed up the yard, which they then had to pay to get fixed before the listing pictures were taken.

      1. +1, get a bigger one. My kids are now 11,9, and 7 and the “too big” playset we got is still an OK size/high enough for them. It has an 8′ climbing wall.

    4. I’m not sure I would buy a playset if it would take up that % of the grassy area in my yard — just my opinion. As for brands, when we bought our house, it had a Cedarworks playset outside already — it had probably been there for less than 5 years, and, disappointingly, the bottom started rotting after about 2 more years. I think it must have a warranty (at least for the original owners), but we ended up replacing it with a custom set put together by a local company here in Virginia, which was less expensive than I would have thought. They use pine and were less expensive than Cedarworks. Another factor to consider is whether you really want to have a playset with a toddler. My older kids (6 and 4) love it, but we also have a 1.5-year-old and I have to supervise him very actively because of they playset (plus climbing up there with him is a pain.)

      1. When my son was young I had a playset that took up probably 40% of the grassy back yard and it was worth it. He played with/on it for years.

    5. We had a Cedarworks playset. It was very large and very expensive and, for us, definitely worth it. We got a double tower with the swings in between. It was way too big for our kids to fully use when we got it (I think they were 1, 3 and 6), but they grew into it and it was used heavily by our kids and the neighborhood kids for years. The size meant that our three plus their friends had room to play together. It lasted 10 years but was the wood was definitely breaking down some at that point. We did not stain or seal it, which might have extended its life.

      I think our towers were 4.5′ and 5.5′ tall and that worked out well. The covered tower served double duty as a playhouse/treehouse area. The swings and climbing wall were very popular. The slides were used a lot when they were smaller, but much less as they got older. The fire pole and trapeze bar were also well used throughout.

    6. My advice for anyone considering this is to look on Craigslist or Facebook marketplace and get one used — you can often get sets in good condition and avoid paying the “new” set premium. There are also often playset-moving services that will move it for a few hundred bucks, which should still result in overall savings. Plus buying secondhand is far more environmentally friendly!

      1. +1 My neighborhood’s Nextdoor site always has someone looking to get rid of the playset in the house they just bought.

    7. No sure if you’re still reading this, but I bought a used springfree brand trampoline from craigslist and it’s been amazing. Kids are 8 and 11 and are still jumping on that thing, and it is fun and good exercise for adults as well. if i had known how much fun they’d have, we would have bought it earlier (we got it last year). kids at this age are already too old for the playset (and we have really good playgrounds nearby with fancy structures/swings/zip-line, etc.), but the trampoline seems to have staying power through the pre-teen years at least, so it might be something to consider. Easy to move and reassemble also.

  4. I would like to explore therapy with my husband, but we both work full time, in two different locations with long commutes and have two small children at home. Ideally, we would be able to Skype with a therapist after the kids go to bed. Does this exist??

    1. Why not try a therapist that does weekend appointments and enroll your kids in some type of class where they are supervised enough to be left alone for that same time period?

      1. I don’t know how old the kids are, but weekend activities for toddlers and preschoolers generally require parents to stay there, even if the parent isn’t actively participating. It’s not really until kindergarten age that activities for kids let you “drop and go.”

    2. My husband and I arranged for late afternoon 4 or 5 pm therapy appointments basically across from town – we got babysitting and we stayed in the area for a dinner afterwards to avoid traffic and make the most of the babysitting. Yes, therapy was our date night. Sad.

      1. I don’t think that’s sad. I think it’s great that you are making your relationship a priority! I say bravo to you both!

        1. I don’t think she means it’s sad that they’re in therapy, just that it’s sad that therapy is their only chance for a date night. As someone in a similar boat, I kind of agree that it’s a bit of a bummer.

    3. Regular poster, going anon. I’ve been doing individual counseling through betterhelp dot com for a month or so, and have thus far found it helpful. My schedule is completely nuts, and I’m in an area where it is super hard to find a therapist with evening/weekend availability, let alone one that takes insurance. I don’t think insurance covers the online therapy, but it costs way less than traditional therapy. It also includes unlimited messaging between skype sessions, which is nice. I have a code for a free week (that also gives me a free week) if OP or anyone else is interested!

    4. Teletherapy is not really recognized nor permitted under many licensing laws yet … you could ask around, but I’m personally an OG licensed psychologist and I’m simply not going to risk all the complications and ethical issues. I doubt you would find someone agreeable to late evenings once your child is asleep. You might, nonetheless, find someone for a Saturday morning or perhaps a 7 am during the week? But I think you’d be taking care of your kids and dashing off to your work then… Wish I had better ideas…

      1. My insurance heavily promotes online therapy since it’s cheaper. I imagine time zones could help make the evenings work depending on where the OP lives. It’s disappointing to hear that licensing laws haven’t caught up with accessibility needs yet.

    5. Tried to post this earlier, but it disappeared… I’ve been doing individual therapy through betterhelp dot com, which is all text/skype based, and have found it really helpful (and was much easier to find a therapist available on evenings/ weekends, just specified it in ). It is also cheaper than paying for traditional sessions. If OP (or anyone else) is interested, I can post the code I was sent for a free week (and I get a free week).

    6. I’ve been using better help for individual therapy for about a month, and so far have been happy with it. My schedule is packed, and it’s hard to find someone affordable that has evening/weekend availability in this area. I got sick of ending up on wait lists. :( You also get unlimited texts with your therapist. I have a code I can post if you’re interested (we’d both get a free week).

      1. Sorry for double post – first one totally disappeared and didn’t say it was in mod and then showed up an hour later!

    7. My personal therapist meets with me on Saturday mornings, while my husband keeps the house together.

      The marriage therapist we plan to work with (we wanted to wait until both of us had been doing individual therapy for a bit) does Skype sessions. Aside from scheduling issues (big law), we really wanted to work with this particular counselor because our city does not have any Gottman-trained counselors.

    8. My ex and I tried therapy before splitting and did not find it very helpful. Your mileage may vary, of course, but for us it was very expensive and time-consuming, and that deterred us from sticking with it for more than a couple of months. My ex was super busy and stressed during those months, so he really wasn’t able to put in time/effort outside the sessions; I sometimes wish I’d hung in there longer, but the situation was pretty terrible. The therapy basically consisted of one of us talking while the other said, over and over again, “tell me more.” I do think it helped us understand each other and feel closer to each other; it’s surprising what starts to come out when you are encouraged to talk that way, and I think it helped us remain good friends through our separation and divorce. I think you could do that exercise on your own. Books can be very helpful too. I read John Gottman’s Seven Principles book and found it helpful at the time, but it requires both members of the couple to be equally willing to do various exercises, and my spouse was not. I still highly recommend the book, though, because it has a lot of useful insights into how couples interact. Since my divorce I’ve discovered a book that, despite the cheesy name, I think could be even more helpful: Feeling Good Together, by David Burns. Good luck!

  5. For those who sufferers from migraines, what’s your migraine pain locations? I used to have migraines only on one-side temple, left or right. Now I have them on both sides, sometimes even forehead. My doc keeps telling me it’s okay. I know this may not be the best place to ask but I want to ask you guys is it normal to have migraine on both sides and forehead?

    1. I don’t mean to invalidate a medical diagnosis as migraines, but this sounds more like the locations of your sinuses. Considering that may reopen treatment options.

      1. Migraine headaches are often mistaken as sinus headaches because they’re in roughly the same location. Migraines on both sides and the front of the head aren’t uncommon. If she’s been diagnosed with migraines, they’re almost certainly migraines. Misdiagnosis the other direction is way more common.

    3. I get them in my left eye almost exclusively. I started keeping track about a year ago to figure out a pattern and for me it is even a tiny amount of dehydration leads to massive left eye agony. (And I’m one of the NOLA commenters here who went to a very hot Jazz Fest yesterday and am suffering a migraine now…)

      1. I’m a NOLA commenter, too and I get migraines exclusively on the right side behind the eye!

    4. Mine are almost always in my right eye, but occasionally a really, really bad one will make my entire head feel like it wants to explode. If this is uncommon for you or if the pattern keeps up, you may want to check with your doctor to see if there may be something else going on.

      Anon at 10:17, I totally sympathize with you. I had the b!tch mother of all migraines yesterday (due to a weather change) and I’m dragging today. Hope you feel better!

  6. Any Corporettes attending the IAPP conference in DC at this week? I am attending for the first time and I need some advice on how to dress/what to expect ect.

    1. Not going this year but have gone in past years. It’s generally business casual. There’s always a range (some in jeans, some in suits), but most people are business casual. It all depends too on why you’re going. Are you trying to get clients, or just learn? I’d feel fine wear smart casual if it’s the latter.

    2. sSlight threadjack – I’m not there this year, but was considering going and might go to the next one. For those of you who have been, is it worth it? I’m in-house so not looking for clients, but I want to learn and network.

      1. OP here, I am also inhouse and I am going (and paying my own money to go!) because I am trying to transition from tech transaction work to Data Privacy, and have heard from several people that the networking is great.

      2. I’ve been going for about 10 years, and in my view, the networking is good and the programming is ok. If you’re someone who likes a classroom setting (I am!) then it is good for the first couple of years, and then becomes repetitive. Beware though — it is massive and if you don’t have a plan/set up meetings in advance, you will get lost (I’m wistful for the smaller, more contained environment that it once was!) As for dress, in my experience the DC event is more dressy than the Fall, west-coast one. Most people are business casual, but on the dressier end of that. Some wear jeans. Enjoy!

    1. I use Flying Prince Cleaning in the city. I’m not totally sure if they go out to Newton, but I’ve been very happy with them. They send a team of 2-3 cleaners every time, and the place is spotless.

  8. I am having a mental block with arranging my new kitchen. I like my current 30″ stove that has double ovens, but it will be undersized for the new configuration (and bigger would be in line with the ‘hood we live in). 36″ stoves don’t tend to have double ovens in the brand DH wants to use. 48″ seems like overkill, but would get us two ovens in a stove format; would require trimming the windows on either side of stove (fire code of some sort). But if we go with a 36″ cooktop, we don’t have enough vertical space to locate double ovens (just an island and only 3 upper cabinets next to the ‘fridge).

    Do real people have 48″ stoves? Or is that just in design magazines? My grandmother was one of 9 and I bet they had a 30″ stove (but I do recall that it had two ovens and a broiler). I do get a lot of use out of the double ovens and often host Thanksgiving, xmas, New Years and some random parties (Twelfth Night) and dinners with friends (b/c easier and cheaper than getting a weekend evening sitter).

    I feel like I am not through the 5 stages of grief on the “why can’t GE Cafe have a 36″ stove with double ovens?” issue in a way that is not like me. Going to look at show rooms this weekend to hash it all out (WHY — need to order the windows next window and can’t order the kitchen ones w/o knowing the stove size).

    UGH.

    1. Didn’t you just post this same question last week? My feedback is the same. Idk why you’d ever have a range hood bigger than the range but if you’re wedded to that, go 48 inch stove.

    2. Didn’t you ask this already? You got a ton of responses

      You need to put on your big girl pants and make your own decision

      And remind yourself that this is a very, very first world problem

      1. +1. This is an odd question to have a repeat on. You know what you want to do. You don’t need our permission.

        1. +1, didn’t you get a bunch of replies before?
          Anyway, for decisions like this where the answer doesn’t REALLY matter, I often pretend to make the decision and then see how I feel. If it’s a wave of “oooh I wish I’d picked the other choice” then my gut knows what I really want.

    3. If you have a tiny kitchen then a 48″ stove would probably overwhelm it, but plenty of people have 48″ stoves. Also, nothing says that all of your appliance brands have to be the same. You can switch out hardware if having the same appliance handles is important to you.

      1. Or does anyone have a stove on an external wall? I see them so often on interior walls, but ours is on an exterior wall b/w two windows and that seems to be not-standard. But we are in a really old house, so nothing is standard. It is a difficult love, old houses.

        1. I had this exact setup in my last house, external wall. We had no upper cabinets on that side and just the 48″ range in the middle and the two windows with countertop underneath. It looked great! Go with the 48″!

      2. I didn’t catch the part about the brands. Sure, if it’s causing this much angst, revisit why having this brand is so important to the husband.

    4. IDK why there is a hole in the market re this. I have a medium kitchen and a medium budget and HATE that people default 2-oven stove to chatter of . . . well, you can get a 60″ La Cornue . . . Yes. One can. I will not. I want to retire before I’m 80.

      Kitchens are expensive and this one has to last for the rest of my lifetime. There is no re-do of this re-do. Stuff is expensive and I don’t want to trade my current hot mess for a hotter mess that is expensive and permanent.

      For me, I want a lego kitchen on wheels where I can make a 30″ hole for a stove and then expand if my future budget dictates. But IRL that is not an option.

    5. You need to go to the That Home Site forum on Gardenweb. There is an entire group devoted to kitchen questions, including pros and skilled amateurs.

  9. If you graduated during the recession (2009-2010ish), do you feel like now, 10 years later, your career is where you wanted it to be? Or, do you feel permanently behind in some way? I made it in-house and my job is ok, but I’m an individual contributor with no upward mobility, and I just feel like I’ve plateaued. Salary is meh and I know my income potential is greater than what I currently earn. Life factors make it not possible to “lean in” or jump ship right now.

    1. My career is definitely different! I would have started in BigLaw, stayed there for 4 years and hated it and frankly wouldn’t have been great at it, and then moved on. Instead I’ve been making a lot less money in a regional firm, but I really like it here! Different and financially worse but I’m happy enough!

    2. 2011 law school grad. I feel good about where my career is and my options if I wished to move elsewhere. I am not in big law, nor did I have any desire to be in big law. I’m in a medium-sized firm in a medium-sized city.

    3. Yeah I’ve recovered. I graduated in 2010 and was unemployed for a year (I was no-offered at my summer firm). I started in Big Law in fall 2011 and was considered an ‘11 by my firm, so I was a year behind for a long time. But I went in-house a year ago and I don’t think the class of 2010 vs 2011 had any bearing on my in-house salary.

    4. DH and I both graduated in 2008, but found jobs almost immediately despite. I’m very happy about my job and career trajectory, he is not at all right now- but regardless, research shows our lifelong earnings will never catch up to those who didnt get hit by the recession.
      I think we have ended up more risk-averse than gen-Y. DH is unhappy partly because he will NOT quit a job that he mostly hates, even though he’s being headhunted elsewhere. And I’ve probably slowed my career by keeping food service jobs for steady income.
      That being said- we’re pretty confident that our financial choices are consistent with our values.

      1. Yeah, I’m a 2008 grad. I was not laid off, but my starting salary was cut significantly. That did affect how quickly I could pay off student loans (and thus my long-term savings), but it was a fairly mild impact. However, two of my friends were out of work or only marginally employed (one of my friends was working as a barista while hustling for doc review jobs for over a years) for several years. They’re all in good jobs now, but they’ve had much more significant long-term financial impacts – several years of extremely low pay affected the salaries they got when they did get better jobs, made it harder for them to repay loans or build savings, etc.

    5. My caveat is that I graduated before 2009-2011, but I think stagnation is a thing that’s sort of inherent to the particular career stage you’re in. I don’t want to downplay the raw deal that your cohort got, but perhaps reframing this as a challenge of being 30-something may be more helpful than dwelling on the recession. There are, unfortunately, a lot of career paths without a clear path for upward mobility.

      1. No stop it. The recession is a real thing please don’t smugly explain as someone who didn’t graduate into it that it wasn’t.

        1. I don’t think that’s what she was saying? I think we can acknowledge that the recession was very real and really hurt that generation (and I say this as someone who graduated a bit later and escaped the worst of it) but also that this feeling isn’t unique to those of us who graduated during the recession and happens to a lot of people after a few years in our careers.

          1. I said right in the post that this generation got a raw deal during the recession. I’m also saying that feeling stagnant isn’t unique to those who graduated from 2009-2011.

      2. This! I graduated law school in 2012. I practiced law with small solo attorneys and it was miserable. I switched to the compliance industry at 31 and am struggling to advance/get promoted, etc. It is tough!! I don’t know how people climb the corporate ladder, but I don’t know if this is from the recession.

      3. I agree with this. I graduated before the recession (perhaps even in the Good-Ole-Days) and I have ended up in-house and my career has stagnated.

        Even before the recession, many (most?) big law lawyers I worked with thought that going in-house was the brass ring. But I think being in-house often leads to career stagnation by the nature of the job (law department management structure is often relatively flat with “management level” attorneys staying until retirement; attorneys are competing with non-attorneys for promotion in the business areas; attorneys are often some of the highest paid non-senior execs making upward salary movement limited, etc).

        1. I agree with this. Being in-house seems great in many ways, but if you want to move up the ladder, you have to be willing to move between companies.

      4. I think the recession permanently changed the legal profession as well. Having practiced before the rescission (albeit briefly) and now after, the way my firm works (how it hires, how it makes strategic decisions, how it promotes) is just night and day. I think any of us that were not already equity partners pre-recession are facing an entirely different world than those at the top before it.

        2. Yes and no. Clients are power. If you have clients, you have success where you are, or wherever you take them. That is constant, unchanged, unchanging.

      5. There are proven economic studies that people who graduate in a recession earn less over their lifetimes than those who don’t. I don’t have the studies at my fingertips but I teach economics and I’ve read the studies and feel that they are based in fact.

      6. I don’t think the OP is suggesting stagnation doesn’t happen to other people – she’s asking about the long-term impacts of graduating into that period specifically. I think it’s an interesting and worthwhile question, since those of us who were on the leading edge (like me) are 10 years into practice at this point.

    6. I graduated law school in 2009. It definitely affected my career path. Took me longer to get to my desired practice area since I wasn’t able to lateral to the desired practice area until 2014, and when I did it is still not exactly the practice area I wanted (different client base making it way more difficult to move in-house). Part of the reason I didn’t get the desired practice area was the two body problem — in the tight job market of 2009, both DH (already employed then) and I couldn’t both get our desired jobs in the same geographic location, so I took the hit since a job was a job at that point. I couldn’t properly lean-in in 2014 when I got to my desired practice area bc I had a two year old, and then a year later DD #2. My days of leaning-in are on hold for now. I’m on 75% time. I probably have up to five more years in my current firm, since I’m not partner material but I am in a niche practice area. I’m 43 now.

    7. I graduated in 2006, but this speaks to me because I did a two-year clerkship with intentions to go to mid-law afterward. My clerkship ended right when the market for lawyers went south in 2008. I have spent my career working in state agencies, but with a common regulatory theme and now am (hopefully) about to make the jump to go in-house. Unfortunately, the law just doesn’t lend itself to a lot of stratification, so there isn’t much “upward mobility” to be had in terms of promotion. Have you considered moving to a larger company? Or going into the business side of your company?

    8. I ended up benefiting from the recession. Graduated ’11 and jumped through a series of temporary jobs until finally landing a biglaw spot in finance/real estate. Been there ever since- started my career supporting the bankruptcy group in workouts and am now doing construction financing. The period right after graduation was pretty bad because my loans actually went up on IBR and I couldn’t significantly contribute to retirement for a few years. So I’m behind the eightball there. However, there are very very few attorneys in the classes of ’08 through ’13 who have financing or real estate experience, so I’m a hot commodity. Salary is great and there are not many other competing associates in the partnership pipeline.

      1. Oh my goodness, isn’t that the truth about a dearth of people with real estate experience in the mid-level category right now?

    9. I did not go to law school because of the recession. I was planning on starting law school in 2009 and I looked at the debt numbers, examined my own feelings and decided it was not worth the risk. Since then, I have discovered that the things I have hated the most about any job I have had (paying attention to small details and begin alone in an office) are two big parts of a lot of many law jobs. Now I work in education where I get the human interaction that I like and I think I am good at and I don’t have to do the kind of detail-oriented work that I am bad at and find really frustrating. So, I’m sure over the course of my life I will make waaaaay less money (see: working in education), but I did get the chance to figure out what I am good/bad at in a low-stakes way without the pressure of paying off law school loans.

    10. This is a strange question. I work in finance, and started working at the end of 2000. My career definitely took a hit during the recession that you speak of. Promotions were limited and many of us stagnated. Every career will have to weather at least one recession? I don’t think the impacts were felt only by those who graduated around that time. Trust me, it was tough for those of us who were working–layoffs were a constant threat, raises/bonuses were cut, staff was limited, and you just simply could not move forward with your career. The balance of power shifted to the employer and it took a long time to move away from that mindset.

      1. Right, but for law graduates, if you couldn’t get a job because of the recession, it made it much much harder to ever get a job because you were competing for entry-level positions with people who didn’t have the perceived baggage of being 2+ years out of school with no experience.

        1. Yeah, there were entire classes of law students who either got laid off as first-years and were completely unmarketable (no experience and in many cases they hadn’t passed the bar yet) or were deferred for multiple years. You also had multiple large law firm failures. Yes, recessions affect everyone, including mid-career professionals, but the recession unleashed a glut of brand-new lawyers with no skills and six-figure debt into a market that had no jobs. And that repeated each year until the economy rebounded. When the economy did rebound, firms hired far fewer people and mostly new graduates, not the 2-3 year graduates who’d been doing doc review or working nonlaw jobs since graduation. So those people did in many cases take a permanent hit to their prospects because of specifically when they entered the market.

          1. My ex-boyfriend graduated in 2011, so not even during the “thick” of this mess. Did well at OCI, but everyone said they didn’t have room or were only taking the tippity top of the class. He had above median law school grades at Tier 1 one school in a large city that fed about half the class to biglaw pre-recession.
            We knew he would have a cushy job for at least few years as an associate if it’d been before 2008.

            He did doc review for 3-4 years, along with temp gigs, ended up hanging a shingle with someone else, and even did crim. defense (he aspired to do deal work/M&A stuff). Eventually got a more stable in-house gig and has been there for a couple of years. He never recovered at all. Thankfully though, he has the most lovely wife and sweetest baby, so he won in his personal life. However, his net worth will never look like what we thought it would when we were dating. I think he is happy and for that I’m so grateful.

            I graduated many years later into the rebounded recession and while it’s no pre-recession paradise, I am so very thankful that I get to do what I do at a great firm, with a comfortable salary, in a booming (generally stable/somewhat recession-proof) practice area.

            For those who are not lawyers/not familiar with how hiring in law firms works: I am sure it was difficult for all recession grads, but law grads were hurt the most by this because of the nature of recruiting, particularly at big law shops. You’re too “old” (out of school for too long) to be a first-year associate, competing with recent grads, but not experienced enough for midlaw and small shops. We are also incredibly elitist as a profession, so we assume you didn’t cut it and that’s why you weren’t part of the handful of kids who got jobs and we would not hire someone who did doc review instead of “real” legal work (first years mostly do the same type of thing)? It’s absolutely awful.

            I also feel for those who got laid off by firms, especially during stealth layoffs, were the employers assume something is wrong with you and not that the firm is struggling financially and getting rid of non-revenue generating people.

          2. Just want to say that this was a thoughtful and well-written response. You speak of your ex-BF and his family in such a nice way… I am kind of in awe by that. Must have been an amicable break-up?

    11. I graduated in 2008 and definitely see that as having impacted my career. I ended up somewhere I like, but oof it was a slog to get here.

    12. I graduated in that timeframe but was fortunate enough to still receive a BigLaw offer and start in BigLaw as planned, so my career was not affected, in my perception.

      1. Graduated in 2011, summered in 2010 and have been at my BigLaw firm as a litigator since then. I think the recession impacted me in that it made me more risk-averse and conservative in career decisions. I had many, many friends at a very good law school who never really got their foot in the door in private practice. I’ve been very hesitant to leave BigLaw because I fear closing off certain options, and the next step seems like it will drive what I do forever.

        1. Exact same here. I just took my first in-house job, leaving my safe 8th year lit associate job in a busy group at a big firm. I’m apprehensive, but it’s what I’ve wanted to do and the right job came along. Left on great terms, so I’m hoping I haven’t closed off any options I may want to exercise in the future.

    13. It definitely slowed my career path down (took 8 months to find a job after graduation), but the bigger impact has been to my savings. I have never (and it’s starting to look like I will never) had a savings account pay more than 2.3% interest and for most of the last 10 years, it’s been way, way lower than that. At a time when I was trying to save in my first emergency fund, it was a huge blow, and even now, I’m getting punished as a saver rather than a borrower. I was not yet in a position to invest in the stock market and take advantage of the gains there at the time that I graduated.

      1. Is this a serious comment? The recession hit you hard because you might never have a savings account that pays over 2.3% and that has been a huge blow to your ability to save your first emergency fund? The question had a degree of entitlement built into to it, but this response is shocking. I feel like no one recognizes that it is never easy–there is this constant perception that some other age cohort had it so easy. Building a career takes time, and many ups and downs will be encountered–some of them in your control and some of them external. Building an emergency fund takes time. That task has been hard for every new employee who is trying to make it work early in their career.

        1. Yes, of course it’s a serious comment. Are you actually suggesting that it’s easier to save in your emergency fund when interest rates are 0.04% compared to 4%? I was not commenting on all the other life and economic factors that affect one’s career trajectory and success. I was specifically commenting that persistently low interest rates have negatively affected my ability to maximize my emergency fund. I stand by my comment and truly don’t understand yours.

          1. Why aren’t you investing? S&P returns average 7-10%. I realize you shouldn’t put your emergency money in the market but you could invest the other funds hanging out in savings at 0.4% and put your emergency money in a money market that’ll at least get you 2-3% right now.

          2. As I stated in the original post, I was not in a position to start investing when I had $400 in the bank after graduating college. I was focused on building an emergency fund, which took a long time and was not helped by low interest rates. I did not say that I do not invest today or that I do not understand the benefits of investing.

        2. Of course things like interest rates greatly affect people’s finances. Especially when you’re going, you lose out on a lot of compounding interest.

          Similarly, I graduated a bit after the recession and my student loan rates were significantly higher than those a few years older.

          The benefit/penalty of compounding interest is enormous.

      2. There’s some innumeracy at play here. Interest rates are closely linked to inflation rates. So yeah, people could get 8% on their savings accounts when inflation was in the double digits. You’re saving at a lower rate in a low to no inflation environment. It all works out the same.

        1. Interest rates were in the 4-5% range prior to the recession. Inflation in 2007 was under 3%. Maybe stop trying to pretend like it didn’t make any impact to graduate during the recession?

    14. Graduated in 2010, but was very lucky my big law firm didn’t no offer or defer anyone my class year. I’m still at the same firm and up for partner this year. So, in lots of senses nothing is different. However, I think as a result of graduating in the recession my class is much more risk adverse and very few of us have left, meaning that the class up for partner this year is absolutely enormous. Also the economics of large law firms have changed and the standard to make partner today is significantly higher than when we were hired as summer associates. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. All of us are very busy and well regarded, so I think the firm will look for ways to keep us, but most of us aren’t going to be partners. It is a big shift for the firm, because previously if you made it to be an 8-10th year associate you could reasonably expect to be made a partner. Now, that is not the case.

    15. I have a lot of thoughts on this that I will try to keep succinct.

      I graduated law school in 2009. I never had big law dreams. Because of the recession, I accepted the first OCI position that made me an offer which meant my husband and I were moving out of state. My salary was still fair despite the recession and this was a mid-sized firm in a mid-sized market. That firm tanked, likely because of the recession but I luckily decided I preferred small firm life and moved on my own right before the place tanked.

      I’ve loved my small-firm life but I feel this undercurrent to this day that I am lucky to have this job, that there are a lot of other people that would be happy to take it from me if I complained too much. I think but for the recession I’d be a partner here by now. We have discussed it but my boss is in no rush because he knows I’m not going anywhere.

      I’m seeing a lot of people in my class getting pushed out of firms about now. One frustrating thing for me is there are not very many people that graduated in my year or the year before or after me practicing where I am now. I find myself on cases with people either more senior than me or significantly more junior than me. There just aren’t that many people in the 8-12 years of experience range. I think a lot of people gave up and went to do something else.

      1. “There just aren’t that many people in the 8-12 years of experience range. I think a lot of people gave up and went to do something else.”

        You just blew my mind with this comment. I’ve noticed the same phenomenon that you describe earlier in your comment, but all this time I’ve assumed it was some kind of quirk of my particular practice area.

    16. And despite many quantified studies of the gap caused, just like every other systematic, hard-to-pin down, societal factor…. the people who have gotten a better deal are telling the people who were affected that it didn’t matter. Or at least it didn’t matter much. Because they basically experienced the same thing, even though they didn’t actually experience the same thing. Why am I not surprised.

      2. +100 I cant believe how many people are trying to argue that there isn’t a penalty for graduating during a recession because things were also hard for them?

        FWIW I didn’t graduate during the recession, was affected by the recession but can still admit that those graduating during the recession (or on the cusp of retirement) were hit hardest/harder than me.

        2. I didn’t see a single person argue that it wasn’t harder for those who graduated during the recession. I don’t think a single person said “nah, it was the same experience in 2004 as 2009.” What people said, at least what I read, was that everyone was impacted by the recession. It upended many people’s careers. No one is saying it wouldn’t have been easier to graduate in 2004. Just that the 2004 grad may have also had a really tough go of it in 2009. Geesh.

          1. No but a lot of the posts feel like someone with kidney stones complaining about how painful they are to a woman in labor

    17. I’m pretty happy with where I’ve ended up right now, but yeah, I definitely feel like I got a delayed start (2010 college grad) and would be much farther along if I were a few years older.

    18. I graduated from a fourth tier regional law school in 2010. Ironically, I think my timing ended up being helpful to my career, even though it was massively stressful at the time. I did really well in law school and networked my a$$ off, got a biglaw summer associateship, got an offer but was deferred, took a federal government job instead, spent a few years there then went back to biglaw for a couple years, and then went in-house. I’m in financial services and there just aren’t many lawyers my level as a result of the recession. The biggest impact for me has been that I have no law school network because not many of my classmates were able to find good jobs.

    19. 2010 grad. My firm no offered everyone in my summer class except people who were there 1L and 2L summer (and a woman who was sexually harassed).

      I spent months in therapy because it was beyond embarrassing to be an unemployed T10 grad. I spent 3L silently screaming in my mind and manged to get by somehow in my classes.

      I ended up in a low paying public interest job that I love, but it was a slog getting it. I’m financially fortunate because I had no loans and a husband in Biglaw. I love my life now, but I’m not a believer in “all good things happen for a reason.” It was awful. End of story. I’m still happy now.

  10. Two questions:
    – Are there any difficulties with having an Etsuko tailored? I had to size up in the chest and have ended up looking like I’m wearing a potato sack through the waist and hips. And is it possible to have a tailor change the neckline on this to a slight v-neck, or is that too much? If that’ll risk ruining the dress, I’ll leave it as-is.

    – Secondly, any recommendations for a DC tailor to take these to? Downtown or Woodley Park areas are ideal, but definitely happy to take these elsewhere.

    TIA!

    1. If you want a v neck dress buy one! Trying to add one to a regular dress isn’t a good plan.

    2. re: neckline – depends on how it’s finished (facing, lining, etc.). It’s probably going to be complicated, because they’ll have to take the seam apart, recut the pieces and then stitch back together. And complicated means expensive, most likely.

      1. I think you could probably take in the hips at the seams a bit, but the neckline will be hard. I have a similar issue with the Etsuko – I sized up so it wasn’t tight in the shoulders, but the waist and hips are too wide. I wear it with a belt and it works OK, but please let me know if you do get it tailored and are happy with the results!

    3. Mm lafleur is meant to be tailored. That means taking in or slightly letting out side seams, hemming, etc. it does not mean changing the neckline. Unless you’re making a dress from scratch this is nearly impossible. You will not have fabric for facing a new neckline.

    4. The MM Lafleur alexandra dress is what you’re looking for. It’s a similar shape, but it’s more snug through the waist, roomier through the chest, and has a wide v neck.

      1. Oh man, I wish that one came in all the colors the Etsuko does. It would be perfect for me.

    5. Can’t comment on tailoring the Etsuko but I really like Lam Couture by McPherson Squate for tailoring. I’ve been happy with results and they have also told me when what I wanted to do wouldn’t really work out.

    6. I’ve tailored the Etsuko in the exact way you’ve described. Worked great!

  11. Any recommendations for management or leadership programs in the DC area? Ideally looking for a 1-3 day training, not something more extensive. For background, my office offers funds for this sort of thing, so I would like to take advantage, but I have two kids under the age of 3 and my free time is very limited. Thanks!

  12. Gift basket ideas? I’m making two gift baskets for my SILs who are both struggling with making dinners. One is a busy professional who’s told me that she and her partner eat out more than they’d like. They’re moving so I thought it would be a nice housewarming gift for the couple. The other just had a new baby and with her going back to work, she’s asked me for tips/recipes. Since I was making one for moving SIL, I thought I’d double it for new mom SIL. So far I’m including: a Krono mini pot ($25, really handy useful little pot that I use all the time), and about $30 worth of spices and spice blends (blend + meat = easy dinner), and I could do about $25-$30 more. I could do a cookbook (one of my favorites is Pioneer Woman’s Dinnertime), but is there another good thing to include? Both have crockpots and instant pots.

    1. This seems really silly. Spices and a pot aren’t the barriers to making a quick dinner.

        2. Except I might very well be your SIL. I eat out too much and freely admit it, but I don’t really want to cook more at home and would hate to receive this kind of housewarming gift. It feels condescending. People know takeout is expensive and not healthy, if they eat it a lot there’s probably a reason.

          1. The post states “SIL told me they eat out more than they’d like.” You are eating it out as much as you would like. There is a difference. Are you done making it about you now?

          3. I’m not making it about me or ascribing negative feelings to it, I’m just pointing out why it might not be a helpful gift, from the perspective of someone who is in the SIL’s situation. I eat out far more than is healthy (and yes, I tell people “I eat out way too much,” largely because it’s not socially acceptable to act like eating out several times a week is good), but being given a pot and some spices would do nothing to change my eating habits. I already have lots of pots and a decent collection of spices at home. Several other people on this thread have made the same point.

      2. +1. And I could be wrong, but I don’t think of Pioneer Woman is having quick dinners.

        It seems like you are addressing this is if they don’t have the tools/knowledge to make dinner. I highly doubt that is the issue. I bet the issue is that they don’t have the time to make normal dinners and don’t have recipes for quick dinners (like under 15 minutes). To help address that problem, I would look for tools designed to help make dinner in 15 minutes or less. Maybe a good instant pot cookbook

        1. Same. I love Pioneer Woman, but her recipes are weekend recipes for me. I do not have time for all that on a weeknight.

        2. It has a “16-minute meals” chapter and a chapter on freezer food. Moving SIL and her partner both don’t know how to cook. They’re younger than my SO and me, so this is really them just getting started in adulthood. I really doubt they have any good quality spices and moving is a good occasion where I could give them something nice to help them out, especially since if you’re just getting started with cooking, spending money on spices isn’t completely intuitive. With my other SIL, it seems she’s more so burned out and uninspired. I don’t think a gift basket is really going to do the trick for that, but I intend it to be more of a “hey, I’m thinking about you” type thing. And she’s asked me for a lot of my recipes, and a good portion that I use on the regular come from that cookbook, so it’s 2 birds.

          1. *I should say, spending money on spices other than those from the grocery store which may or may not be stale. Like spending extra on really nice ones.

          3. I would really still recommend gifts that help make cooking easier, faster, and simpler. If someone really wants to get in to cooking, maybe they will jump to long, completed receipts that take time. But, from what you have said, I suspect that they are more like me, and want to cook at home without spending a lot of time. Most people don’t go from ordering out every night to cooking complicated meals. I’m maybe at the point where I would consider cooking a meal with a lot of species on the weekend, but I’m normally going out with friends then. And during the week, I’m just not going to cook a complicated meal – and by that, I mean anything that takes more than 15 minutes. And if someone give me a cookbook that seemed to have complicated recipes, I would just put it on a shelf and never look at it long enough to find the fast ones. I just worry that the species and other items will never get used.

          5. If they don’t know how to cook, Mark Bittman has really solid entry level cook books.

          6. Jamie Oliver 5 Ingredients: Quick and Easy Food (and the show, available on Hulu) is a great resource to get people cooking delicious food with a lot of flavor by using some straightforward methods, hacks, etc. There’s no time limit on the recipes (which I think always frustrates people when it’s a 16 or 30 minute meal but it takes them longer…that kills confidence and they don’t return to cook again as readily), but they are all indeed simple and straightforward.

          7. I don’t think the Pioneer Woman’s recipes are really complicated — but then again, I cook, so YMMV. The thing I like about her cookbooks is that she details every step with a photograph so you can see what things should look like. That’s helpful to a beginning cook who may not understand cooking terminology.

            Trisha Yearwood’s cookbooks have some pretty simple recipes, but again, YMMV as I cook a lot and I think the recipes are easy to follow. That might be different for someone who has never cooked.

          8. Not a helpful response to the topic, but Tricia Yearwood was on WWDTM (the NPR news quiz) and was delightful. I don’t have the cookbooks, but Garth’s bowls sounded like a hoot (it is like tater tots and bacon and other cardiologist-shaming food dumped into a bowl).

          9. I think your gift basket idea is great. When I got my first apartment, I had nothing. I nice coworker gave me a bunch of pantry staples – spices, flour, sugar, things like that to get me started. It was great.

          10. I recommend a mail order service, for example 1 month of Blue Apron or similar. If you come home to all the ingredients + recipes and it takes a half hour to prepare, it’s easier than take out. I found BA cost no more per serving than our normal groceries & we only got 2 dinners per week. They can keep the recipes. There are many brands, but my only experience was BA.

      3. Every time somebody looks for gift advice, there’s inevitably somebody who tries to pour cold water on it. Some people give thoughtful gifts! If you’re not one of these people, please feel free to scroll on by and continue on your miserable way.

        1. I know!! Like, sorry not sorry I give people physical gifts instead of just cash I’m sure they’ll cope with it just fine.

          1. Lol it’s not about wanting cash instead. This isn’t a thoughtful gift. 99% of people who don’t cook at home much know how to cook just fine, and don’t need cooking equipment or ingredients. The issue is time – she needs fast recipe ideas and OP is giving her something useless and unrelated.

        2. This….what is wrong with some of the people people responding? Having a bad monday? If you don’t have anything nice to say….you know the rest!

        3. Haha but thoughtful gifts mean thinking about what the recipient wants/needs, not what you want to give.

    2. I would add a nice olive oil, hot sauce, or other similar sauce that gives an easy oomph to pretty simple food.

      1. Oh, that’s a great idea! I hadn’t thought about oils or hot sauces, I could definitely pick a few up.

    3. Maybe some nice quality bottled marinades? One of my quickest dinners is chicken thighs + bottled marinade either baked in the over or grilled. I like the ones from Paleo Chef.

      1. A few marinades or simmer sauces (the TJ’s ones are really good) in some different flavor profiles – Indian, Mediterranean, smoky, etc.

    4. Maybe write down your favorite recipes and hand them over with some frozen homemade meals? It sounds like they’re too busy to cook but have the necessary tools.

      1. My best friend did that when I gave birth to my oldest and it was very much appreciated. She froze two portions of her dinner for two weeks and gave me both re-heating instructions and hand written recipe cards for all ten meals. They are still some of my favorite dinners to cook.

      2. Yes, agreed, this is so much better than what the OP is proposing. If you take the time to write out or pull together quick and easy recipes that you have tested and know are quick and know taste good, that is a great gift to give to someone who might be just starting out with trying to cook at home more often. Plus spices or oil or vinegar needed for recipes.

        1. And especially for people who are busy and/or just had a new baby. After having a new baby, I didn’t exactly have the mental energy to figure out how to use new spices or equipment.

    5. I really love this idea! (Anon at 9:43 is clearly a bitterpants.) Any small gadgets that make life easier that they don’t already have? I can’t live without my garlic press, for instance (I know, I know). A citrus juicer or an instant read thermometer could be good too. Also, I don’t have this cookbook myself and you have one you like already, but I’ve heard so many great things about Molly Gilbert’s Sheet Pan Suppers (I have her other cookbook and absolutely adore it). $10 for a paperback on Amazon today.

      1. +1 for a garlic press, heavy and reasonable easy to clean. Oxo is usually reliable for small kitchen tools (although my garlic press is a random non-branded).

      2. As someone who doesn’t cook much and eats out more than I should, I would give some serious side-eye to someone giving me a garlic press. … What am I supposed to do with it? And why would I want to press garlic?

        2. I cook a fair amount but not as much as I’d like and agree with this. Frozen garlic cubes & bottles of lemon juice are much easier to use to make a quick meal than a garlic press & a citrus juicer.

        3. Garlic is the worst to press (little bits of skin flying off and having smelly hands all day at the keyboard despite washing and lotion)! I only use frozen garlic cloves. I add to the chorus of folks who don’t want more kitchen tools and “stuff”, just “hacks”. For example, refer her to posts here on how to prep meals on the weekend. Get her frozen or chopped veggies, peeled or chopped garlic, premade sauces (Trader Joe’s green curry sauce with their chopped mixed veggies for example). Trader Joe’s pizza dough with easy premade toppings. That way they can have cheap (under $4 per head) meals which take very little prep. Or – get them a subscription to one of those meal services where they barely have to do any work.

        1. I have this and 100% agree it’s more fun, but I’m still grabbing frozen garlic cubes for weekday cooking.

    6. I’d instead help them maximize use of the crock pot and instant pot. Liners so clean-up is easy & fast? Recipe book for instant pot? Selection of marinades so they don’t have to make the sauce?

    7. If your biggest desire is to send a gift to mark these events, and you’ve happened on a food theme, these all sound like good ideas.

      If you’re wanting to help them solve the actual problem, I don’t think cookbooks and spices are the way to go. When I’ve fallen out of the cooking habit, I need a really, really easy plan to ease me back in. I’ve never used the spice blends or marinades I’ve been given, because they require Cooking, and also Figuring Something Out, which is what my block is.

    8. I agree with some of the others. I too eat out more than I’d like, but a recipe book and new spices wouldn’t fix that – they’d sit unused in my kitchen. I like the idea for crockpot liners, marinades, maybe a gift card for Blue Apron, which says you’re really meeting them where they are.

    9. This is a lovely idea, but I gave a similar spice basket to a friend who doesn’t cook much and it’s still sitting unopened and unused in her home years later. If they have expressed an interest in cooking I guess that’s one thing (but my friend did too), in which case I agree that you should give them some simmer/sauce packets.

    10. Everything you already bought plus a 3-month subscription to CookSmarts would be an awesome gift. Done and done.

      1. Cook Smarts is a good idea if the problem is that they’re not able to put a lot of brainspace into getting a meal together because it tells you what to cook ever week. I used a combo of Cook Smarts and Blue Apron to get out of a rut where I was eating out too much, BUT I already liked to cook and knew how. The idea of hauling out cookbooks to look up recipes and plan from scratch wasn’t something I wanted to do at that time in my life.

    11. Not sure their taste preferences, but one thing that helped me get better at cooking was the Nom Nom Paleo cookbook (I don’t actually keep a paleo diet, so I use butter instead of ghee, etc.). It breaks the concept of cooking down into how much time you have – so if you have time on the weekend, you can make all the sauces and side dishes and then just quickly cook some salmon in the oven to pair with the sauce for example. It also has step by step pictures, which I find helpful.

    12. I am wondering why your default is that your SILs should cook, especially since it seems neither of them like to. Are both of your brothers disabled?

      Not trying to be a hater, seriously, I just think you should examine this gendered impulse.

      1. Housewarming gift is for the couple, I spoke about that several times. Both don’t know how to cook. New mom SIL would be because she’s brought it up to me several times as something she’s struggling with right now. Why are you jumping to this being a gendered thing? I don’t think that’s there in the post.

          1. Yeah, agreed, this is definitely a gendered thing. Maybe that is why your SILs aren’t cooking? Because they don’t feel like completely taking on that responsibility for the family?

          2. +1. Especially if the mom is nursing, the dad should be handling almost all of the meal preparation. Nursing a newborn is practically a full time job. Make your brother step up!

          3. I talked about the couple, does the other partner not fit into the equation? And if my SIL has a conversation with me about cooking, I’m not going to prod her and ask about the division of labor within her household. Sheesh. Only this site would turn a housewarming gift into an attack about gender roles. Chill out, everyone.

          4. I see you’re digging in all over this thread with everyone who disagrees with you about anything, but if you didn’t want feedback you shouldn’t have posted. And if you disagree that you’re making a gendered assumption go back and read your actual post.

    13. Williams-Sonoma has some really great meal-starting sauces and marinades. I also recommend the Bittman How to Cook Everything cookbooks.

    14. A cookbook I love is The Six o’Clock Scramble by Aviva Goldberg.
      She also wrote a more plant- and sustainable version that starts with SOS!
      I also subscribed to her recipes for a year – she (I think she sold the company recently) sends menu suggestions for busy families, including side dishes. A good mix of packaged, frozen and fresh and fancy and casual dinners for picky eaters. I love the recipes and so does my family. I don’t subscribe anymore, but I did long after I needed the recipes. I really love the program. Highly recommend – about $70/year now. Think of it like a really expensive or useful magazine subscription. I think you can get a sample menu from them and show it to your (sister?) and see if they want to subscribe (it might not be their thing)

    15. I swear by a cookbook called Slow Cook Modern by Liana Krissoff. That might help with the time/effort obstacles. It is entirely made up of crockpot recipes that actually take 8-10 hours to cook, so you actually can turn it on before work and have dinner ready when you get home.

    16. This is a lovely gift idea, and I agree with the posters who’ve suggested giving them a few of your best fast recipes including suggestions for any time-saving hacks (like frozen garlic cubes, which I love), along with any spices needed to make the recipes. That’s ultimately going to be a lot more helpful than a cookbook because you’re curating some tried and true recipes for them and then giving them everything they’d need to make it! Y

      And ignore all the baffling negativity upthread from random posters who hate cooking. You are clearly a very thoughtful person and it sounds like you have a good sense of what your family members would appreciate for a housewarming gift.

      1. If by baffling negativity, you mean stating the reality that, based on what she’s said about her family members, this is not a thoughtful or useful gift, then sure. Nobody is saying it’s a terrible gift in the abstract, but it doesn’t sound like a good gift for these people.

  13. Wondering what the FMLA policies of other offices are.
    How agreeable is your workplace to giving people FMLA hours (as opposed to weeks) for routine, and not necessarily medically emergent, tasks such as driving elderly mom to doctor for checkups, assisting disable cousin with grocery shopping, going to pharmacy to pick up medications for sick adult child who lives on their own and staying home with kids for school vacations?
    These are all examples of FMLA time my workplace has granted with the result that everyone takes 6 weeks off annually for family related reasons and we are chronically understaffed.

    2. Intermittent leave (hours as opposed to weeks) is fine but of the examples you give, I think only the first is an appropriate use of FMLA. Staying home with kids for school vacations is bonkers. In what world is that “medical?!” Intermittent leave is hard to deal with as a supervisor for staffing purposes, but that’s really bad practice on the part of your workplace.

    3. Um, that is required by FMLA. Hire up if it’s a problem for your office. That’s the baseline law, not a policy question.

    4. “Cousin” used in some cultures – say, American WASP – might indicate a distant relative you rarely see or speak to.
      In other cultures – say, African-American – “cousin” indicates best friend/sibling-esqe if sibling were also a close family friend and beloved dearest person who is always present but not romantic.
      You don’t get to choose who or why people take FMLA, sorry.

      1. FMLA specifically defines who is covered, so cousin would not be covered, no matter how you define it in your culture.

      3. I don’t think the cultural meaning of cousin has any relevance. If cousin is used in the statute, it’s presumably defined and I would assume the definition is pretty close to the dictionary definition. The FMLA definition of cousin is the only one that matters for this purpose.

        1. FMLA is spouse, kids and parents. Its not cousins. Spouse/kids/parents is a pretty common limit to family care in gov’t statutes.

    5. If you read the regs, FMLA is for a “serious health condition”, so employers should not be allowing FMLA time to be used for these things when not related to a serious health condition. While FMLA can be given in hourly increments, it should not be approved for these reasons. Plus, FMLA is unpaid so I am not sure these other people in your office are actually taking 6 extra weeks off without pay.

      1. They are definitely taking it without pay because they don’t resort to making FMLA requests until after they use up their vacation and sick time. So we end up with staff taking several months off annually.

        While I agree that you can’t pick and choose who a person can take FMLA time for, it seems at minimum, it does have to be for an actual relative. And caring for a person who is not sick, but rather a minor, an elderly person, is not FMLA leave.

        Someone just got FMLA leave to go to their daughter’s home to help her hangup a painting. Not because the daughter is sick or disabled but for whatever reason, because the daughter cannot figure out how to do it on her own.

      2. True. But driving to doctor’s appointments or assisting with grocery shopping may be components of caring for a relative with a serious health condition. FMLA allows intermittent/hourly usage for a relative who falls within the reg (qualifying family members (child, spouse or parent) with a serious health condition with the definition of son or daughter generally found to include individuals for whom the employee stood or is standing “in loco parentis”). If you are in CA, the CRFA expands this to also cover domestic partners and parents-in-law.

        So driving to doctor’s appointments and other care may fall under FMLA but “cousin” is not a covered family member. Also, staying home with well children over break doesn’t qualify (even sick children, unless the sickness is a serious medical condition – flu may qualify, pneumonia most likely does and a common cold probably doesn’t but it’s largely based on the number of appointments/course of treatment and not actual diagnosis).

        That said, FMLA is unpaid. So if your company is effectively allowing 6 weeks of unpaid time for employees to care for family members – GOOD FOR THEM! Hire more people if this results in a staffing problem.

        1. I am the OP here, Have a question.

          Is routine care of an elderly and/or disabled person—as opposed to ill elderly or disabled person— included? I am referring to things like doling laundry and grocery shopping for someone who is unable to do these tasks on their own.

          The issues seems to be that my office has made the FMLA into the FLA. As soon as someone says that need to spend time with a family member, and is willing to do so without pay, they are given the time off.

          1. It sounds like your HR, in consultation with employment attny, needs to craft a better policy.

    6. Isn’t it more generous to give sick/personal leave and not require them to use FMLA? My office gives unlimited sick leave and 5 personal days annually in addition to vacation time, so, yes, lots of people use sick leave to care for a disabled family member or personal leave to stay home with kids on school vacations. The FMLA clock only starts if you’re out for more than a week at once, I believe.

      1. OP again.
        The employees take FMLA only after all vacation and sick time is used up. Under office policy, that gives them essentially 3 months off annually.
        It sounds crazy but there is a significant number of employees taking all this time off.

        1. Doesn’t FMLA require paperwork? DH nearly applied for it when FIL became gravely ill (sadly, he passed too soon to file) and we were provided with a mound of paperwork to complete. I always assumed that was standard procedure, but I’m now thinking it might not be?

        2. what industry do you work in? are people just paid so well that they don’t care about taking so much unpaid leave? i am surprised that so many people want to take unpaid time off. also- are you sure they are taking FMLA and not just unpaid time off? My office distinguishes between the two. For example, after I had a kid, I maxed out my FMLA, but was able to take 2 additional weeks of unpaid leaving, which were not part of FMLA

          1. +1. Not all unpaid leave to attend to personal/family matters is FMLA. I took 4 months off unpaid when my husband got a job posting abroad and our family temporarily moved. It was not FMLA.

          2. OP one more time.
            They are definitely taking FMLA because my office does not permit unpaid time off.
            It’s our support staff that does this. They are paid poorly so they don’t really regard unpaid time off as much of a loss.

          3. “They are paid poorly so they don’t really regard unpaid time off as much of a loss.”

            I feel like this is an odd statement, and maybe a conclusion you’re jumping to. I agree by your posts that there is some funny stuff happening with the FMLA but I wonder more so (1) why are they paid poorly, are they under paid? do they have a living wage? what can you do about this? Are you losing so much productivity by these rogue FMLA requests that it is quantifiable and should translate to increases in pay so people aren’t so inclined to take paid time off? , and (2) Purely anecdata, but I’ve found people in lower paying jobs are more likely to work through hell and high water because the pay is that much more impactful to them.

            I fee like there is some major HR flag rising/bias unpacking/employment attorney type stuff at play that may be way above your pay grade. And, if it’s not, you should do something about it pronto.

  14. Mega long post… need to get this out of my chest. One of my very good friend and colleague (let’s call her F) is going through some serious drama and I don’t know how to help her. To make a short story, F has successful law career, has been married with a gorgeous man for the past 20 years, has 2 kids. She is making the big income while her husband work part-time. He takes care of the home and the kids. From the outside, her life looks good.

    Last year, her husband tried to commit suicide ( history of depression) and, as a results, has been in serious therapy. F was feeling a lot of mixed feelings toward her husband following this. Then, a few months ago, her husband told her he did not love her anymore (and had been feeling like this for quite a while) but wanted to stay with her for the kids.

    F was devastated. This situation also brought a lot of her insecurities ( F has always been overweigh but 3 years ago she joined a swim group and has since slimmed down a little bit ). Following this news she went to see a plastic surgeon to see if she could some procedures. She was a big mess, crying on my shoulder almost every day. I was shocked that she went to see the plastic surgeon and told her that this was not the solution. I suggested that she go to couple therapy as well as individual therapy.

    Then, F husband changed his mind: he told her he did indeed love her. She was happy and has decided to put this episode behind her, or so she says. Since this she has been going for drinks with her swim group more frequently and coming at work somewhat hangover. 2 weeks ago she came to work strangely early and went straight to her office. I went to see her and noticed that she was wearing her clothes from the day before. She told me she had slept over to a swim friend, that she has been hooking up with a woman from her swim group for the past 2 weeks and that yesterday a 25-something swimmer dude joined them at the other woman place and they had a threesome! She added that she told her husband they should have an open relation during the time he was feeling out of love with her so she technically had not been nothing wrong.

    I care about my friend but really I don’t know what to do. I told her she needs to go that consult with a psychologist but she is not listening. She has always been so rationale and grounded. Now I feel that she :
    1- Living the single unattached early-20 life that she never had since she has been in a serious relationship since she was 21
    2- Trying to somewhat hurt her husband back for the pain he caused her
    3- Sabotaging her life
    I don’t know what else to do. My husband told me to drop it: that I told her my opinion and there is nothing else I can do. It sadden me to see her going down that route.

      1. It’s not just typos. You have misspellings and wrong prepositions. If she’s a lawyer and you’re her colleague then I assume you are also a lawyer… with poor command of the English language?

        1. Yes: I realize that I did make mistakes- I should have re-read my message. English is not my first language and I do not work in an English setting – it’s part of the reason I am here on this site sharing this story : my friend has no clue about this blog.

    2. Well, assuming you aren’t a weird tr011, tell her to stop sharing things like that with you.

      1. No I’m not a tr011 and I have modified some details about this story but the general idea is there. I don’t know why I would be a tr0ll, I am not asking about collared shirts :)
        Thank you for your input: I think she needs to tell the truth to someone and it’s me. We have been friends for more than a decade.

      1. Yeah I guess you are right- I just find this so sad and depressing. And somewhat cliché.
        In the past 3 years, a lot (about 1/3) of the couples around me are breaking up: most of my friends are between 37 to 46 so may be this is the mid-life crisis. My husband says that about 50% of couples do break up at some point and that there is not much to do…

    4. Yep, none of this is your business. As a friend, the best you can do is gently suggest help and then be supportive. This all sounds hard and your friend is coping, maybe not in the way you would have, but to each their own. As a colleague, I would suggest she stop coming into work hungover and wearing yesterday’s clothes (barring exceptional circumstances) but since you aren’t her manager, it’s probably not your place to insist on that.

      1. Thank you for your comment – you are right. I am not her manager ( alleluia!) but I am more senior than her and in another department. Honestly some people have started to notice she is not well and that there is something going on. I have kept my initial post very mild -the actual situation is worst but as other have said, I have given her advice and she is living her own life. Sad but true.

        1. I think that as a friend there is the option to mention others in her department are discussing her changed behavior, since that is information that i would want to know in her situation. “hey, i know you care about your professional reputation, folks are sharing concerns about x and y, and from the outside it looks like time is running short on turning this around in the office”
          No one wants to be grist for the gossip mill. She may be so in her head she isnt picking up on these things.
          I wouldnt offer my opinions on how you think she should live her life.

          I would also choose my timing for the above conversation very very carefully.

        1. No not a tr0ll – just needed to vent. I could have share more but kept it light

    6. Your Husband is right. There is a lot going on here and the good news is: it’s not your problem. You’ve been a shoulder to lean on, recommended professional help, now BUTT OUT! Yes it sucks to see our friends make bad decisions but it’s not your life, she’s a grown woman, and you should not allow yourself to be sucked into someone else’s self-made drama.

      1. Yes, you are right. It’s not my problem: my life is pleasantly boring and busy. I will try to stop thinking about this and focus on my own life. There is nothing I can do now.

    7. There’s nothing for you to do here. Grown-ups lead their own lives. No matter what she’s got going on, no adult thinks randomly thinks [the scenario you laid out] is helpful or productive. She knows she’s making wild decisions. And she’s doing them anyway. “I care about you and I’m worried about you” is all the advice you can give.

  15. I have always lived in old houses with wonky plaster walls. I had an artist friend recommend Benjamin Moore flat paint — easy to repaint just a bit with a roller, more pigments per gallon than other brands. [A brilliant friend has also really recommended the Home Depot paints, says you cannot beat them and she may be right. IDK about super premium brands like Farrow & Ball. We probably can’t have nice things like that.]

    The painters in my city like Sherwin Williams matte (which isn’t a full-on flat). I don’t think you can easily repaint just a bit of wall (I have kids and a clumsy husband and stuff is always getting scuffed). Magic erasers seem to leave streaks that you can see when the light hits it. Maybe I am not doing it right?

    I need to get stuff repainted and feel like I am having to really fight to have anything other than Sherwin Williams. Do they give better rates to the trades? Does it matter? Is there something at SW that approximates what I love about BM flat (esp. their scrubbable flat)?

    With plaster walls and a family, there is a lot of periodic touchups, but I felt like with BM it was so easy and with the current SW matte product on the walls, it looks awfuller and awfuller and you need to get a pro to repaint (b/c I am too busy to do a wall at a time, which seems to be what makes it look good).

    FWIW, I am on team #OilBasedBrightHighGlossWhiteTrim and that seems to be OK regardless of brand. It’s just wall paint for nonbathroom walls (so any semi-gloss seems to be OK to me).

    1. Benjamin Moore gives trade rates- maybe call the local store and ask which painters do a high volume with them. I’ve not used their flat paint, but we really like their eggshell and ceiling paint.

    2. I like BM eggshell finish for walls. It has the depth of color similar to flat (though not as great) but you can scrub it with a magic eraser and it isn’t streaky.

      1. Most of my high traffic areas are BM eggshell. I touch up with a sponge and it blends quite well.

      2. Seconding this recommendation. BM eggshell. I have also used the BM paint specific to bathrooms and spas–can’t quite remember what it is called. My painter, who typically does not use BM paints, remarked at how easy the paint went on, and how good the colors looked.

    3. You don’t want flat or matte with kids – that’s asking for scuffed walls. You don’t want full- or semi-gloss because they show all the wonkiness of plaster. Go with the Goldilocks happy medium: eggshell.

      And here’s the real deal truth by someone who’s personally painted way too many rooms to count (moved A LOT): it’s 2019 – residential interior paint is not rocket science – BM, SW, and the high-end formulas at Lowe’s and HD are all comparable. Make sure you’re comparing apples to apples and then buy whichever one’s on sale. (PS – they’ll all be on sale for Memorial Day.)

      And there’s no “fighting” with your painters. “Hi, can I get an estimate to paint this living room in ABC brand paint?” “Ma’am, we normally use XYZ Brand.” “That’s nice, but please use ABC brand on my house. Thanks.” They don’t care all that much. They might have their own opinions about which ones they like to use (just like I really like the Behr Ultra Premium Plus), but at the end of the day, they’re being paid to do a job. And if they think ABC brand sucks and will take them extra time, they are adults who can adjust their quote accordingly.

    4. I’d do Satin (i’ve been using Behr from the Home Depot). It’s less shiny than Semi-gloss, but it’s more scrubbable than flat. But I personally hate the way flat paint feels to the touch, and think the advice for using it to avoid highlighting imperfections on the way is stupid. You’ve got an old house with weird plaster walls – nothing is going to hide that!

      I’ve always used Satin for living rooms and bedrooms (semi-gloss in kitchen and bathrooms) because I like the hand feel of the glossyier paints better. But I also do my own painting in the house, so I’ve never had to convince anyone else. Can you just buy the paint you want, and give it to the painters to use? Why do they have to be the ones to get the paint?

    5. Agree BM, eggshell finish. My guess is your contractor prefers SW because that is what he always uses. The pigments are different in the various brands, impacting how it looks in different lighting. I don’t know why you would have to fight, you are the client after all.

    6. BM is great at marketing but their paints are not necessarily better than SW, Behr, Kelley Moore etc. I like KM personally because they gave me a fan deck and now they have my loyalty forever (i love my fan deck)

    7. Murals ultra ceram paint – expensive- but you can scrub sharpie off it …ask me how I know :) looks great 10 years later . They can add any brands color formulation to it as well. Honestly, Ben Moore has the best holding color formulas.

  16. Somewhat odd question – but here we go. I’m in therapy (and likely will be long term) working to make sense of childhood abuse. I’ve also been assigned an executive coach by my firm to help me further develop leadership skills. I’ve not told the coach about therapy as I’m weirded out by talking about it to what is an extension of hr. The problem is that coach is awful and giving bad advice based upon incorrect interpretations. Long shot, but has anyone navigated a similar situation? I’m trying to figure out how to use her as a resource without getting in to everything. And I’m concerned that if I fill her in on everything it will somehow make its way back to the firm that I’m “uncoachable”.

      1. Because this is an executive coach, not a therapist, who is not qualified to help someone work through the aftereffects of childhood abuse. The fallout affects how the victim interacts with people, handles authority, and handles stress.

        Not the OP, but this is obvious.

        1. No, it isn’t. The executive coach isn’t there to help her work through the affects of childhood abuse. She’s there to address a job performance issue. The OP needs to work on following that advice or she will get fired.

    2. “The problem is that coach is awful and giving bad advice based upon incorrect interpretations.”

      Can you elaborate?

      My advice is to hire your own executive coach. Tell HR that this one is a bad fit so you proactively found your own.

    3. There’s a difference between filling her in on everything and giving her some kind of clue. I’m a life coach, not an executive coach, but I absolutely want to know when someone I’m coaching is in therapy, precisely because I don’t want to guide the client in a direction contrary to where the therapy is going.

      That said, you’re being coached at work on leadership skills; glean whatever you possibly can from the coaching relationship, give clear feedback on what isn’t working and why. Also make sure you are clear on what it is about your leadership skills that needs upgrading to the point that they brought in and are paying an executive coach to help you.

    4. So… some of her “takeaways” so far have been: push away and ignore emotions that make you feel bad and (after telling her about not being invited to a client entertainment event after joining a team (the manager below me who joined the team at the same time took my spot)) that I just need to be more charming to make men more comfortable.

      So, in general just a bit cringeworthy.

      1. Ok I get that. But to serve your career you need to seem engaged and positive about this.

      2. Oh this coach is terrible.
        Does everyone get an “excutive coach” or just “women who aren’t fitting in at this level” before they get pushed out?

        1. Fairly certain it’s “problem women”. Maybe my question is better phrased to ask how others with a difficult past have navigated how that past impacts their career.

        2. so negative and naive….are you having a moody Monday? To the contrary, firms don’t typically invest in coaches for women that are about to be pushed out….they invest in the ones that are going to be promoted.

          1. Or, they give them awful coaches and then say “but we tried to help! it wasn’t a company problem, it was a her problem!”. Are you having an unimaginative Monday?

      3. I had an exec coach….and there were some things that I just did not agree with….such as you need to wear more makeup and then men will treat you differently….and we weren’t even discussing issues with men…:)…seriously? I think this stuff came from some other coachees….she had a lot of them. She was very good in other areas but quite a bit older and I think much of her advice reflected her own experience. I learned to take the useful input she was giving and let the other stuff go….at the end of the day it was overall a very good experience. You just have to filter their advice and trust your gut. Be positive and thankful that your company is investing in you….

        2. I have mixed feelings about some of this advice. For example, I know I get treated better and taken a lot more seriously when I wear my contacts and glasses and have my hair done nicely. You bet your butt I bother with all of that for jury trials and very important depositions. I don’t want my client to suffer because society still has unconscious biases and grants better results when it perceives a woman as attractive … but not too attractive. Is it sexist? Yes. Is it still sometimes good advice, yes. I would rather know what works and choose to not do it than not know what I’m missing if that makes sense.

          That’s how I feel about Nice Girls Don’t get the Corner Office. I’m not going to do everything it says but I am going to be aware when I’m ignoring the advice and doing so at my own peril.

          1. This. I do find that makeup makes a difference with how both women and men perceive me. It’s fine to decide you want to ignore that advice, but that doesn’t make it bad advice for a woman who’s trying to advance her career.

    5. Why would an executive coach need to know about childhood trauma, and why would any of her advice overlap or conflict with anything your therapist is telling you? Isn’t the job of an executive coach to assist with career development?

      1. Advice around conflict management and assertiveness needs to be tailored for victims of child abuse.

        Victims often have issues with confidence and assertiveness that affect how other people view them, but are not solved with the strategies that help people who have not been abused.

        1. Then why can’t OP work on the appropriate strategies with her therapist and just smile and nod politely at the executive coach? Isn’t an executive coach basically useless to all people anyway? Just go through the motions to please the company.

        2. Sorry to hijack but I have a client that is a victim of severe childhood abuse. She did really well with her deposition but your comment made me concerned that my usual advice on testifying might need some tweaking for her if her case does go to the jury. The underlying case is unrelated to her abuse but her damages are somewhat related. Basically, she sustained a facial injury in a car accident that reminds her of the trauma she sustained as a child so the trauma is part of the pain and suffering she will be testifying about. (Some details changed for anonymity.)

          Could you point me towards any good resources for working with this client?

    6. No no no to telling work coach of your personal therapy. Boundaries for your private life are imperative. I’d encourage; however, a discussion with the therapist regarding the challenges of professional coaching.

        1. Yes. It’s being discussed. For what it’s worth it’s making for some pretty good sessions – so I have that!

          1. Past abuse or not, this coach’s advise is objectively TERRIBLE. How in good conscience can your company pay this person who is so, so bad? Can you tackle it from that angle?

      2. I was assigned to work with an executive coach that I thought wasn’t particularly skilled or qualified. She was a friend of the CEO, and I knew it was important to play the game, glean anything of value that I could, and ignore the rest. I have a therapist, and it was very helpful to consult with my therapist about how to deal with the executive coach.

        I was so thrilled when the coaching ended. You can get through this. You have my sympathies.

  17. So I’m a recent lateral 2nd year associate in Big Law and I’m being micromanaged to death by a 4th year. He checks in on me several times a day, moves up deadlines constantly (purely for the sake of wanting to get things done earlier, not a client or real deadline), and texts my cell with things that should be in a work email. The check-ins and deadline moving is interfering with my ability to manage my own workload. Worse, when I try to explain that I have other matters going on for other partners with sooner deadlines, he says he’ll talk to the main partner about getting me off the other matters so I can focus on his two cases. I do not want that! I switched to this firm because I came from the position of only working for one partner and want to be part of a robust group and learn from multiple people. I think a few issues are going on that I would really love some advice on: (1) How do I “manage up” so that he stops texting/calling/moving deadlines on me all the time? I know my work product is not an issue and he is well-meaning so I’m not really sure how to address the issue. (2) How do I explain that we have different boundaries? For example, he worked on his honeymoon and paternity leave, responds to emails at 3 AM, and is okay with using his cell to discuss work info whereas I definitely do work nights and weekends (so not the strongest boundaries on my own part) but I’m not going to respond to an email in a non-urgent situation after 10 PM and I’m not going to bother anyone on their vacation. (3) How can I be absolutely clear that it’s important to MY CAREER to work for multiple partners and not just him and the one partner he supports? Thanks in advance!

    1. Ugh, that sounds terrible. It reminds me of how a partner I used to work with behaved–and probably did so as a 4th year, too, from what I’ve heard. One thing that I found helpful was to preempt his intrusions. Maybe set up 15-30 minute meeting on Monday to discuss issues for the week, so that he doesn’t feel like he needs to bombard you with every random thought he has. In your case, I would consider whatever support your firm might give you– is there a professional development counselor available? I’d reach out and discuss the situation. A 4th year should not be mucking up your work life that much.

    2. Say no once in a while. He’s only a 4th year so it’s not the same as saying no to a partner and obviously you should only say no for his internal deadlines, not for something a client wants sooner etc.. For example, he gives you research or a brief that he wants done by Thursday. Then on Tues. morning he decides, he’d like it by Wed. so he can work with it Thurs/Friday. Say to him — sorry — I had targeted getting it done by Thursday and thus had prioritized some other things first, so now it is unlikely to be done by Wed. Frankly, even if you get it done by Wed, sit on it and don’t get it to him until Thursday as originally promised. THEN once this has happened 3-5 times, say to him — look I enjoy working with you but I have a lot going on and I can’t just reshuffle deadlines constantly based on your schedule, sorry. Thing is you need to do all this politely AND make sure the work product you give him is as good as it’s been because what you do NOT need is him tanking your review. I know he’s only a 4th year but he counts as a senior associate in relation to you and all you need is a bad senior associate review or 2 + economy hitting recession and suddenly your firm has reason to push you out.

      Honestly he’s on track to be a micromanager junior partner, so you doing this isn’t going to change him. BUT it will allow you to manage him. And from his perspective, he could move on to other associates once he realizes you won’t be there for him 24-7. These kinds of people tend to move on quick — often to another junior who will for the next 6 mos-1 yr sacrifice their life out of fear of him; and then a year later once that person has pushed back, they move on again, rinse and repeat. The easier you make his life, the more you’re staying with him for years of your career.

    3. I ran into this when I was junior. He thinks he’s senior to you due to 2 extra years. The partners do not. Tell him less not more. Get stuff done by the original deadlines and don’t give him material to work with. If he gripes, he can’t do much. Answer according to your boundaries (which are fine except maybe check for emergencies on vacation). Just don’t give someone who is basically your peer power over you.

      2. This really varies firm to firm, and practice to practice. When I was a 4th year in litigation on matters for any of the partners I worked with, I had a huge say in what junior associates were staffed on my case and how the partner viewed them. If a second year didn’t understand that he was junior to me on the matter and didn’t take directions from me (which were really from the partner 50% of the time), he wouldn’t be staffed on any of my future matters

        1. +1 I’m way more senior in big law and depending on the 4th year they absolutely can have a lot of influence over things like reviews and staffing of second year associates. This doesn’t excuse his behavior but I would hate for OP to end up in a bad situation thinking this guy doesn’t actually have power when he may.

    4. Don’t really have a ton of advice but want to commiserate since I have a similar problem. I’m a 5th year associate who recently lateraled and keep getting assigned depo summaries by a 7th year associate who just recently was given the ability to delegate his work to people junior than him. (My guess is the intent was for him to give these types of assignments to our new 1st year associate who started at the same time I lateraled in, so I think he thinks I’m fair game as well.) I posted about this on this board as well and the advice I got was to be more upfront to him when I got assigned something about my work commitments at the time but to generally deal with the assignments since it may be good long-term for me in the firm to have a relationship with this associate once he makes partner.

      Most recently, this associate came and dropped off a project for me without asking what my availability was (all of the partners here ask availability before dropping off something), and I told him affirmatively that I had no time to do his project for at least a month. He did not really seem to care though and now I have multiple full-day depos sitting on my desk waiting to be summarized…

    5. No perfect advice, because I used to work for a partner like this and it’s the main reason I left biglaw. But also, it’s a good point that he is basically your peer. Gently push back by just doing your thing and responding within a reasonable time frame.

    6. I think the phone thing can be addressed simply. If it’s your personal phone, you can say, “Hey I heard we shouldn’t text about work stuff on our personal phones.” If it’s a work phone, say, “Let’s switch to email – I don’t want to lose any of the details!”

  18. Can anyone recommend some books or podcasts on raising independent, resilient, brave kids? I’m interested in learning more to combat my tendency to overprotectiveness because I know it won’t help my kid, but there’s so much out there that I don’t know where to start.

    1. Thank you for trying to combat this tendency! You are helping your kids in the long run by backing off.

      Signed, person who works with college kids whose parents did not do that

    3. I have read several books on this topic and none really has much practical advice. My two favorite parenting books are How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Untangled. Neither is primarily focused on developing independence and resilience, but each book’s general philosophy supports raising competent adults.

      In general, just look for safe, age-appropriate opportunities for your child to act independently. Don’t do everything for her just because it’s easier. Send her to summer camp and to visit relatives without you. Don’t eat lunch with her at school or chaperone all her field trips. With school projects and chores, provide only as much “scaffolding” and support as she really needs to be successful.

      1. How Children Succeed- Paul Tough. Discusses a lot of Carol Dweck’s work about promoting a growth-mindset in kids.
        Homesick and Happy- Michael Thompson. Mostly about camps and time away from parents, but some insight on why this is important to teach skills and independence. I think that lesson is scalable so even if sleepaway camp isn’t the right choice for your family, there is value in promoting independence in a variety of settings.

    4. I’d highly recommend The Mom Hour podcast. The hosts have seven kids between them, from young kids to adults, and they offer good, practical tips on a variety of topics. Neither parent is overly free-rangy or protective; it’s just solid middle ground. Even though only a few episodes are specifically aimed at independence, I’ve gotten so many good ideas from other episodes that have definitely led me to backing off a little bit.

      Here’s a good example — we ran out of milk this weekend. Instead of getting up with the kids as usual, I ended up sleeping in a bit. Kids decided they really, really wanted cereal, not toast, so made their own breakfast using the almond milk I only for smoothies. I guarantee if I’d been in the kitchen (i.e., hovering and/or making breakfast), it would’ve turned into a battle of wills over toast vs. cereal. Just letting them be was a good thing. Breakfast was made, they made do with what they had, and I got some much-needed rest.

      Start small by identifying some areas where you’re comfortable letting go a little bit, before tackling the big stuff. It’s hard work, and I totally sympathize. Left unchecked, I could veer toward too overprotective. Being a working mom has probably been a blessing in that way because I’m forced to not always do things my own way.

    5. Well you could do what I did and take a travel heavy job for a few years. Husband had to step up, and kids are now extremely independent relative to their peers. It actually worked out really well for us, I’m serous. Husband is an equal if not >50% parent as a result.

    6. I’m not yet a parent and I don’t know actual books to recommend, but from experience my parents were very hands-off because they were too busy/tired to baby us. I had chores (like dishes, mopping the floor and laundry) since I was eight. By ten I was frying my own shrimp tempura. After school I would do my homework at the local library until my parents came home from work. My first job was in 8th grade at a summer camp. Basically, kids are capable of more than you think they are. Give them chores to do, if they’re older have them earn their own money instead of giving allowances, keep an eye on them but let them fall and stand up on their own, don’t try to clear paths and make everything easy for them.

  19. Baby Shower Etiquette question – I have a baby shower coming up and we registered on Amazon. Several people have sent gifts from Amazon directly to our house. Since my husband and I already order a lot of stuff from Amazon and all the boxes were addressed to me, I opened the boxes. Some of registry gifts from Amazon were gift wrapped, most were not. Some of the unwrapped gifts that were sent to me are from people who are attending the shower. I know that other people will be attending and bringing gifts to the shower. So, my question is – do we need to pretend we did not open these unwrapped gifts and re-seal the boxes and then haul them to the shower location? I don’t want to make anyone feel awkward, but I also don’t really want to haul a bunch of stuff to a new location just to bring it back home.

    1. Can you just have a “viewing” shower where you set up a table of the gifts received? It’s a lot less awkward than opening up each gift one by one and allows you time to really talk with people and do games in a condensed time period (showers over two or three hours are a bit long in my book)

      2. I think this is how showers used to operate, right? People would come by just to look at the gifts on the table.

        1. Right. I believe it’s called a Sip ‘n’ See in the south. Bride or mother to be displays the gifts and her friends come over to have “tea” (booze) and ogle the presents.

        2. And not only that, way back in the day people would send wedding gifts to the home of the bride’s parents (where the bride was living) and the gifts would be displayed in the front parlor on long tables with white tablecloths that were set up for that purpose. People would come to call and ogle the gifts.

          It actually sounds kind of fun…

    2. Nah. If people want you to do that it’s on them to tell you. Just be sure to send thank you s promptly! Like, tonight.

      1. “Also, the tradition of owning gifts seems really outdated.” I’m not trying to be snarky but what does this mean? The tradition of giving gifts is outdated? Or is this a comment on people having too much “stuff”? I’m all about downsizing from excessive stuff in general, but babies really do need a lot, so I’m not sure how you can avoid purchasing baby gear completely.

    4. No! They sent the gift to your home for your convenience. You bringing it to the shower and back home again would be the opposite of that, and likely make them feel bad that that was the outcome. If they really cared about you opening the gift in front of everyone, they would have shipped it to themselves & brought it to the shower (or at least, they should have & if they didn’t think that through that’s on them).

    5. Just start writing your thank you notes for the gifts you received. No need to bring to the shower. If your guests had wanted/expected you to open the gifts at the shower, they would have had the gifts sent to their homes (isn’t that an option on an Amazon registry?).

    6. No, you absolutely do not need to bring the gifts to the shower if they were shipped directly to your house. The people shipping them to you likely did it for your convenience so that you wouldn’t have to haul the gifts home in the first place. If you see them at the shower, mention you received the gift and thank them and then follow up with a written thank you note after the shower. (Caveat – if the shower is more than a few weeks after you received the gifts, go ahead and send the written thank you now so the sender knows it was received.)

    7. I wouldn’t expect you to haul the gifts to the shower. However, I would make a point of thanking the person at the shower, though (and sending a thank you note, of course).

    8. If you are planning to open gifts at the shower, you could take a picture of the gifts you received and display them, so everyone gets “acknowledged.” As a guest, I sometimes find this a tricky area to navigate … I don’t really love the opening gifts part of it and I’d rather just send it to your house for convenience’ sake, but I feel weird about showing up “empty handed.” Also, if you do decide to take pictures and make a display, this is something you should outsource to a friend/relative who wants to know “how they can help”

  20. Good morning! I recently started going to the amazing gym right next to where I work (new job!). It’s one of those Equinox-ish high end gyms so there are some nice amenities in the locker rooms. BUT today was the second time in only a couple weeks that I forgot something at home (first was mascara, today it was foundation).

    I go when there are classes I’m interested in so it’s a split between mornings and evenings (right before or after work). For the pre-work days, what tips do y’all have for going from gym to work? I’m thinking I may need to buy a second set of all my makeup to keep in that bag (yay sephora sale) maybe?

    1. You could get minis of essentials and pump some of your current foundation into a travel bottle. Keep it in your gym locker or bag. I wouldn’t buy a whole set, and I would probably use less products on a gym day. Foundation/powder/eyebrows only.

      1. +1 – I split products into travel bottles all the time so I can have “multiples.”

    2. When I took a 6 am class, I
      1. Streamlined my makeup routine and kept everything in a single bag (even at home)
      2. Got a pixie cut (obvs not a choice for everyone)
      3. Packed everything the night before
      4. Woke up 10 min earlier than absolutely necessary to check my bag
      5. Kept a mini deodorant in my desk because it was the thing I tended to forget the most

    3. I also go to equinox before work (more days during the week than not). I have a second set of makeup that stays in a makeup bag and MZ Wallace pouch and always make sure it’s in my gym bag the night before. The second set makes other travel easy to just grab the whole set into my luggage. I do sometimes find myself getting the makeup out of my gym bag set while at home but am pretty good about putting it back after.

    4. Yup! Several years ago I finally bought complete multiple sets of all of my beauty products I “need” & keep one set permanently in my work out bag & one set in a travel kit, so I always have what I need when I work out, & when I travel I just grab my travel kit w/o adding anything else. It has made both of those things so much easier. I figure they are all “consumable” items, so it’s not really buying incremental stuff you wouldn’t use eventually, but rather just front loading buying a bunch of inevitably necessary things.

      For make up specifically, up to you but I did buy cheaper versions of the make up I normally use, I figure I don’t need to look 100% on the work out days.

      1. Having multiples is the best. I have a complete second set for travel and a third in my linen cabinet so that I never unexpectedly run out at home and then raid my travel, and then end up on a trip without my stuff (ask me how I know I will do this)

        So now when I take a product out of the linen closet I hit the Sephora app right away and reorder it.

    5. We travel so often on the weekends, I’ve started keeping my daily makeup in its travel bag all the time (my bag is maybe 7x4x3) – it’s easy to toss for the gym or running late, etc.

    6. I have a makeup bag that lives in my gym bag, so there’s always a full set in there. I still forget other things, but not makeup!

    7. On work out mornings, do y’all do your full skincare routine pre-gym or after?I know this may seem like a silly question but it’s one of those things I always wonder about. If I’m going to be washing my face, does that take away all the goodness that I put on (guess this works for really any time of day – do you re-do your facial skincare after you wash your face at any point in day?)

      1. I do my full routine after every face wash. But I don’t wash my face before my morning workout – I just throw on my contacts, brush my teeth, and go.

      2. “Actives” like retinoids and chemical exfoliants and things like that do their work in the first 15 minutes or so. Other ingredients like humectants (moisturizers, lotions) are meant to sit on your skin and prevent moisture loss, protect from environmental pollution. So you’re not wasting your time with any of them, but I’d only apply the actives one time. I’d probably do them at home so i didn’t have to carry as much stuff to the gym.

    8. I keep a separate set of makeup/brushes (cheapo elf ones FWIW) just for travel. Also any skincare that is about 1/2 full automatically gets put in my travel drawer (or tops up the one in my travel drawer). Being able to grab and go and know I’ve got everything in there helps save valuable brain space ;)

  21. Has anyone tried ADAY clothes? Thinking about buying some for weekend wear. The t-shirts may even work for under blazers at work. What kind of sneakers or other shoes would you wear with these on the weekend? Maybe some Cole Haans? I’ve never been much of an athleisure person, but I like the look of their stuff, and I may be coming around (about 10 years after the rest of my generation).

  22. Does anyone have earring recommendations for earrings that have screw-on backs or are otherwise fine to sleep in/wear for weeks on end? I’ve found a brand called “Comfy Earrings” online but don’t know about their quality, etc. I’m just looking for a simple style, like gold balls.

    2. I got great pearl screwback studs from Costco. I have worn them nearly exclusively for the past three years. I’m sure they have gold studs, too.

      1. Pearls aren’t meant to be worn continuously – you should take them out at night and to shower/get ready (esp. if you use hair products or perfume).

        I think OP’s best bet will be simple gold huggies. I don’t like wearing posts to bed because they poke me when I sleep on my side.

    3. Not what you asked for, but screw-on earrings are actually not the most secure type of earring back, despite popular opinion. They also have thicker posts, which can be irritating to some people’s ears (annoying if you spend a lot of money on earrings and then the posts are too thick to be comfortable). The best earring backs that I use are called “Chrysmela clasps,” and they’re $50, but are super secure and I trust them with my expensive earrings. You’re not supposed to swim/shower in them, but I do anyway and they’ve been fine. The pro of the chrysmela backs are that they can go on any standard friction post earring. The other really good option is called a La Pousette or ALPA locking back earring, but those require a special type of earring post (so you can’t just use them on any old pair). Better than diamond has several nice studs with the la pousette backings. Moissaniteco does as well. In addition, don’t discount a jumbo, solid 14k gold butterfly back. Those are very secure. The biggest thing is to check and clean your earrings often. As for everyday wear, Costco has some nice gold earrings, as does Amazon Collection.

    4. Just a warning that I had to stop doing this because the post backs digging into my flesh while I slept caused a recurring cyst behind my ear. I’ve had it drained twice and was told that if it comes back a third time, they will want to cut out the sack. Sleeping while wearing post-style earrings is apparently not recommended.

    5. Why in the world would you wear earrings to sleep? It takes all of 5 seconds to put them on. Don’t do this.

        1. I think if you’re doing this because you otherwise forget to put in earrings, I would wear 14K “huggie” hoops – it’s better than having a post dig into your skin. I actually did this when my daughter was a newborn. I will see if I can link some.

      2. Why in the world would you not wear earrings to sleep? I wear a pair of diamond studs nearly 24/7; I take them off once a week or so to clean them and put them right back in. No ill effects nor discomfort.

  23. Any tips for helping a parent downsize? My mother passed away and my father is sensibly planning to sell the 4 bedroom family home and move someplace more manageable. He’s planning to put it on the market next spring so has plenty of time and resources, I’m just wondering if others have experience or wisdom to share? Between going through my mom’s things, cleaning out the rest of the house, doing all those little pre-sale repairs, staging it etc, it’s a lot of work and I want to be supportive in a way that really helps.

    1. Are you (or he) in a position to hire someone to help? There are companies that handle downsizing/sale prep, at least in many major cities.

      1. Yes, this. I used one of these companies when my parents had to move out of their home and I honestly can’t imagine how I could have done it on my own.

    2. In my experience at first you agonize over every little piece, evaluating whether it might be sentimental or valuable. By the end you’re like, “see that room over there? Put everything in there into the dumpster.”

      Knowing that this will inevitably happen, try to come up with a game plan for mercilessly getting rid of things. Post things on freecycle or have a couple of yard sales. Get everything your dad does not use day to day into boxes, but do not put it in the box unless you’re sure he will actually use it again. Talk to your siblings if any about any large furniture or sentimental items they want, and make if a last call kind of thing – speak now or forever hold your piece.

      In hindsight there are truly very few pieces of my parents stuff that we kept that will ever see the light of day again. Be ruthless.

    3. The book, “The Gentle Art of Swedish Death Cleaning” is actually about exactly that situation, and IMHO is a very nice book. It’s much kinder to the people with “stuff” than Kondo.

    4. A professional will be the best money you can spend. It is SO DRAINING. Just google for professional organizers in your area. I found a great one who did wonderful work.

      And what PP said about agonizing over every little thing in the beginning and throwing entire rooms in dumpsters in the end is spot on.

    5. Marni Jameson has written extensively about this after doing it with/for her parents. She has a book called Downsizing the Family Home and a workbook that goes along with it. She talks a lot in her columns about this process and deciding what to keep, etc.

  24. Do you have any recs for warm weather pants for men? I’d like to find some for my husband for his birthday. His office is casual — he wears jeans most days. Some men even wear shorts in the summer, but that is a bridge too far for him. He walks to and from the metro in the swampy DC summer and is jealous that I can bare my legs in the summer. Linen is the only thing I can think of, but ain’t nobody in our house got time for all that ironing.

    1. I’d look at golf pants for him. They’ll be much lighter weight than jeans and have sweat wicking material. My husband has some Under Armour black golf pants that he wears the same way he’d wear jeans.

      1. Agreed. My SO is out in swampy DMV heat all summer for work, and he lives in golf pants.

    3. My husband has some kind of Prana hiking pant that are appropriate to wear for things other than hiking.

    4. OP here. Thanks for the responses. Had not even considered looking at athletic type pants, but this seems to be a good solution.

    5. I would check out REI. They have a lot of hiking/camping/outdoor/travel pants that would be designed to both be cool in hot weather and to not get wrinkled. Tons of stuff that would be appropriate for a causal office.

  25. For those that didn’t stay in biglaw their whole careers — when did you leave (number of years) and where were you financially — whether that means net worth or milestones that were met (loans paid or 1/2 paid or whatever). Do you wish you had stayed longer? I’m reaching a decision point and I wonder how others have viewed finances in this decision, as opposed to things like long hours/burn out etc. which we discuss here a lot.

    1. I left after four years and went in-house. Financially, I do wish I had stayed a little longer – I didn’t take a major pay cut but my income isn’t growing as much as it would have. That being said, I still make a very decent living, had no more debt and solid savings, and am generally fine in the greater scheme of things. Mentally, I was spent and am much happier now, but YMMV. One thing to consider (which we have also discussed at length) is the timeline for finding other jobs – if you stay too long in big law it can be hard to move in house, if that’s something you are considering.

    2. I left BigLaw after just under four years. I paid off all my law school loans just before leaving, but the timing of leaving was unrelated to that, it was due to moving to another city. I do not wish I had stayed longer.

    3. I stayed 4 years. I had small loans ($25k) at a very high interest rate, so I paid them the first year and then saved about $250k. I left because we were moving states for my husband’s job. If it had been entirely up to me, I probably would have stayed another year or two. I definitely didn’t want to be partner or do the push for partner, but I was pretty happy as a mid-level associate and the money was great.

    4. Left as a 6th year. Loans were paid off and I found it to be the sweet spot of “senior enough to not get a total entry level position in house” but not “so senior that you’re overexperienced for in house hiring plans.”

    5. Left as a fifth year. No loans to pay off (full ride) and net worth was a little less than 1M. And I got two paid maternity leaves out of it as well.

      1. Wow. A million in 5 years is amazing. Best I had heard up to this point was 3/4 of a million in 8 years, though that person had loans.

        1. She said her net worth when she left was a million, not that she saved a million. A pretty huge chunk of that may be real estate appreciation. If I’d been in a position to buy Bay Area real estate as a first year associate, I probably would have gotten $300-400k in real estate appreciation alone by the time I left as a fifth year. Sadly, I had loans and no wealthy parents to give me a down payment, so I paid $50k/year in rent for a tiny apartment and that money was basically just flushed down the toilet.

  26. We just had an offer accepted on a house!!! While I’m beaming and I really love this house, a tiny piece of me is nervous because there wasn’t a bidding war – just one other offer. Enter: anxiety. Why didn’t everyone love it? Will someone want to buy it from us down the road (although we plan to be here for a long time)? The house we’re currently in had 10 offers four years ago. It’s about as liquid as real estate could possibly be given the perfect strike zone for first-time buyers of price point, size, BR/BA count and location. We’ll list the weekend after Mother’s Day and it’ll be under contract maybe before Monday even comes.

    The new house has an $815k price tag, 5 BR/3BA home (one BR is really small and will be an office). Needs some updating but nothing tragic – mostly paint, redoing floors and one bathroom. Will need an AC replacement in the near term. The economics of the deal for us totally make sense – monthly mortgage won’t be an issue and we have ample reserves in the bank for other things that creep up. I think the other offer was the same as us or maybe even a little higher but had some weird contingencies which is how we got it.

    I need the Nervous Nelly in me to STFU. Someone talk me off of this?! How do you (or do you at all) consider the competitive landscape when trying to validate a big decision like this?

    1. I am in the process of buying a new house and am waiting to hear about my offer vs another. I don’t try to validate my decision by using the competitive landscape because every home buyer wants something slightly different. I use the competitive landscape to shape my offer / list price for my house, and that’s about it. I don’t need external validation for my decisions – I know what’s right for me and I do it. You can second guess anything if you want to, but why? What good does it do you?

    2. You’re good! You got the house, you love it and you’re capable of paying for it! Cross the bridge of selling when you come to it. Breathe and enjoy the new place!

    4. Where are you? Bidding wars are really rare unless you’re in SF/NYC/other atypical markets. HGTV is also not reality. I’ve bought 6 houses in hot, normal, and slow MCOL markets in the years between 2005-2018 and never encountered another bidder.

      Do YOU like the house? Do you want the house? Does it meet your family’s needs? Ok then. What does your agent say?

      1. Not the OP, but when I bought last year there were multiple bidders (not a bidding war, but lots of offers in) for the first 2 houses I offered on (and didn’t get). We’ve had a low-inventory relative to buyers in our area, so it’s not out of the realm. That being said, these were more entry-level family homes, so there were probably more buyers interested than some of the more expensive ones on the market.

      2. Suburban Boston. I suspect bidding wars occur with more frequency for the lower price points/smaller homes with great bones where homes appeal to first-time buyers and/or downsizers. So, Logical Larry in my head knows that this is perfectly ok, but Nervous Nelly needs a drink.

        Thanks so far for the (constructive) responses!

      3. HHAHAHAHHA. I was in 4 separate bidding wars last year in my very MCOL market. They are super common in the area I live in. This year, the stock looks even more scarce.

      4. I disagree. I live in a college town of about 100,000 people in the Midwest, lightyears away from SF and NYC in terms of culture and land value, and we got into a bidding war for our house (although house prices here are obviously much lower – we ended up paying $350k for a 5 BR house listed at $300k). People care about school districts, and in our town there is very limited inventory in the best school district. An updated house in that school district always has multiple offers within hours of going on the market.

    5. Here’s the thing, even in a market like SCal where homes are regularly north of 3/4 of a million, that much home (5 bedrooms) at that price appeals to a much smaller market of people.

    6. I bought in a very competitive market almost 2 years ago. Our offer was the only one. There were a ton of other open houses that weekend, our street is a little out of the way, the house was empty/didn’t show well, and quite frankly, the seller’s agent was a jerk. Random stuff happens that has nothing to do with the quality of the house. Just be thankful you were able to save some money because there wasn’t a bidding war!

    7. This is a totally normal reaction. My house was about a quarter of yours and I had the same “oh, crap” moment after the Yay/Winning moment, last year in a really strong seller’s market. Mine was the only offer on a house where I’d had previously lost out on other houses with multiple bidders.

      I just had to trust that Past Me had made good assumptions and had planned well and took most things into consideration. And know that I had options in place to take care of things that could come up.

    8. I felt as you did when we moved into our larger house from our “starter” house. Starter houses are easy to sell because there is always demand. More expensive houses can take longer to move but that doesn’t mean they won’t sell. Besides, you’re buying your house to live in, to make your home, not strictly as an investment.

      Settle in, enjoy it, and worry about selling it when you actually need to sell, which may be when you’re ready to downsize decades from now. You’ll have built some equity and your current feelings of, did we pay $5-$10k too much?, will seem just like a drop in the bucket at that point.

      I’m in the Bay Area and we bought our house as the only offer. We had multiple offers on the smaller house we were selling (at least 6 full offers, and several who asked to be in backup position) but the house we were buying had just fallen out of escrow because the loan fell through, so we got it before it went back on the market. Maybe we paid too much. Maybe that’s why the other buyers’ loan fell though. But it’s water under the bridge now because we love our home, we have raised our family there, and have gained enough equity that it doesn’t matter.

      Enjoy your new home!

  27. I’m on the hunt for a summer-weight tunic I can wear at my business-casual office with leggings, or on the weekend. Most of what I’ve seen is “too something” – floaty, sporty, clingy. I’d like it to be in a color that works with black leggings and have some structure and a slight a-line, and no shirt-style hem – https://shop.nordstrom.com/s/halogen-patch-pocket-tunic-regular-petite/5070066?origin=coordinating-5070066-0-1-FTR-recbot-recently_viewed_snowplow_mvp&recs_placement=FTR&recs_strategy=recently_viewed_snowplow_mvp&recs_source=recbot&recs_page_type=search&recs_seed=0 would be perfect but my size is gone. Any ideas?

    1. If your office is truly business casual and not casual, a tunic and leggings is not appropriate. That may be why you’re having a hard time finding the perfect thing. Try wearing pants – not meant to be snarky, but seriously, leggings are not business casual.

      1. +1. I mean, you could wear a dress with leggings. But then you could also wear a dress without leggings.

    3. I’m not sure I understand the “shirt-style hem” limitation, but based on the look of the top you linked to, you might check out Cos. I have seen a number of similar tops there in the past year, and in fact am wearing one today that goes well with ponte pants and those Eileen Fisher pants that people here either love or hate, and could work with leggings as well.

    4. FWIW, this would 100% sail in my business casual workplace. We’re on the casual end of business casual. Personally I’d never wear it because I cannot trust myself not fill pockets of that size with all sorts of things that one ought not carry around in one’s pockets at work.

    5. Check Amazon. Don’t have any brand recs, but have seen lots of swingy short dresses/tunics on there.

    6. I have 4 of these. They have flattering princess seams and are a sturdy medium fabric, very breathable.
      https://www.jcpenney.com/p/liz-claiborne-weekend-kanga-pocket-tunic-tall/ppr5007803162?pTmplType=regular&country=US&currency=USD&selectedSKUId=23312830026&selectedLotId=2331283&fromBag=true&quantity=1&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=tunic%20tops&utm_content=23312830026&cid=cse%7Cgoogle%7C008%20-%20womens%20apparel%7Ctunic%20tops_23312830026&kwid=-adType^PLA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjNyTyLj24QIVzR-tBh3-_QzmEAkYCyABEgJRufD_BwE

  28. Anon for this — I’ve had heart valve issues since my late teens (so nearing 20 years). It’s always been a watch and wait — seeing the cardiologist 1-2 times/year and an ultrasound usually once a year with some other testing thrown in every few years. So much of this testing is routine that i think nothing of it. Except I had a test done about 2 weeks ago and then got the result back 4 days later. Expected to hear the usual “it looks the same, wait and see” and instead heard “hmm — based on how this looks we need to schedule a more invasive/sedated test to see if the time is nearing to [surgically] repair the valve.” You can imagine how I feel right now. We’ll discuss it further at my next appointment and then schedule if I can’t talk him out of it (I usually can’t). So my appointment with him isn’t for 6 weeks for a variety of reasons — big city/big health system specialist with limited availability; I don’t live in said city so there’s travel plans involved; etc.

    It’s perfectly fine to wait 6 weeks on this, but what I’ve realized in the last 2 weeks since hearing this is the weekends are ROUGH. Weekdays aren’t as bad — not that I love (or even like) my job but I find myself being awfully productive at work probably as a distraction and even if I’m not being productive, there’s others to talk to (not about this) etc. Weekends however — I’m on my own. I can keep myself distracted with a few hours of errand running usually but then it stops and I sit there and basically do nothing. I wouldn’t say I sit around thinking about this very specifically but I’m generally listless. Last 2 weekends have involved watching things that’ll evoke tears — Steel Magnolias; a few episodes of NY Med (bad idea considering how many patients profiled were cardiac). I may try to push the appointment up but assuming I can’t — ideas for distractions? How to handle the next 6 weeks?

    1. Different journey than you (I’m grieving a death) but I make myself a weekend to do list. And it’s not chores. It’s things like (Saturday afternoon- go drink tea in a cafe), Saturday evening, drink rose and eat sushi, Sunday 9am, long walk- etc. it’s not a forever worry so just be gentle on yourself. I find getting out of the house really key.

    2. Push up the appointment and get come certainty. Or you can accept now that you’re going to have valve surgery and that the prospects are good (because they are) and you’ll never have to deal with this again!

      This is coming from someone who has also had cardiac surgery so I feel you.

      Hugs.

    3. Fwiw, I had a cardiac ablation a few years ago and it was scary ahead of time, but very easy and effective! Not sure if it’s a similar (or the same?) procedure, but try not to get too worried about it. Good luck!

      1. Different procedure – valve related not rhythm related, but thanks. Always glad to hear when people have easy cardiac procedures.

    4. Be grateful that you have a great cardiologist and fortunate that your health is well taken care of. Focus on what’s the best outcome because that is statistically what will come to pass. In the meantime, see all the people you’d like to see, organize things, plan some fun outings–essentially do all the things you’d like to if you knew you’d only have limited time. You will be okay.

    5. I have so many ideas! Tackle an ambitious project: If you’ve ever wanted to learn to paint or decorate cakes or write a novel or play the guitar, this could be a good time to start. I’m super tempted by the novel option, personally. You could completely fill your weekend calendar with steps in the project and build in some great little self-care rewards. Three chapters done! You’ve earned a massage! Or you could research your genealogy, redecorate your guest bedroom, Marie Kondo your whole place, read someone’s list of five or ten best books, watch AFI’s best movies, learn common ASL signs, get really, really good at doing your eye makeup.

      Or, become a tourist in your own city: find some great museums, restaurants, etc in your city and make a day of it. Some cities publish a 101 Things to Do in Wherever list. You could work your way through something like that.

      And you don’t mention other people? Have an elaborate dinner party and invite your nearest and dearest. Offer to spend the day babysitting for a friend so she can run her own errands. Volunteer somewhere.

      1. Believe me when I tell you I have zero interest in hosting a dinner party or chasing a toddler. Maybe I’m taking this too seriously but I can’t even describe what it feels like — it’s not like my mood is — YAY what is something I’ve ALWAYS wanted to do . . . .

        1. I completely understand that. I hope you don’t feel like I minimized the emotional impact of your situation, because that was absolutely not my intention.

          When I needed distraction in the face of a loved one’s fatal illness, I picked activities that were likely to bring me pleasure and use a lot of focus. My suggestions were based around that. If that’s not your bag, that is, as I say, completely understandable. I hope you find something that suits you more.

        2. What about a low stakes crafts project that is fairly mindless? Go to the fabric store, pick out some options, and sew different shapes to fill with rice & use as hot/cold packs. Give them as little gifts to friends. Learn to crochet (super easy) & make scarves (super easy) — maybe you can donate these.

        3. Also, I want to say with the utmost kindness here: if you feel you feel like this medical situation has put you in place where the only thing you want to do weekend after weekend is watch sad movies and cry, you might benefit from some sort term therapy. Uncertainty is really tough to cope with.

      2. Love this. I’m currently being treated for breast cancer. Following my second surgery I had to be totally sedentary for 4 weeks…so I made a quilt. Never did before; probably won’t again. Looks like a kindergartner pieced it, but it’s adorable. I’m giving it to my sister who also is being treated for breast cancer now. Having an all-consuming project I’d never done before got me through.

    6. Keep in mind that if it was REALLY bad, you wouldn’t be waiting six weeks. They would be rushing you in now.

      1. This was my thought. If it can wait 6 weeks with no consequences, then that actually sounds pretty good to me.

  29. I’ve been taking 30 mg zinc daily for acne since last October, and I’ve recently developed some eyesight issues. I am reading now that certain doses of zinc benefit the eyes, while higher doses can harm them. Has anyone had issues with eyesight after taking zinc? I’ve also been taking curcumin, and wondering if it could be that as well…

    Yes, I do realize the benefit of a low GI diet for this, but I have a certain abnormality that I can’t do anything about that causes the excess androgens…

    1. If you’re having eyesight issues, particularly if they’ve come on suddenly, get your eyes checked. Loads of things can affect your eyes.
      If you can, make an appointment with your derm or GP and tell them about the supplement.

    2. As a side note, look into trying vitamin B5 for acne instead. There is a lot of info on Reddit about this, and I’ve seen it work firsthand.

  30. I’m going to Europe (London, Venice Rome) with my family (including kids in older elementary school) and I’d like to take a paper travel guide(s) with me. Since I’m only going to each city for a few days, I’m not sure if all of the detailed info in most guides is helpful, not to mention each one has a lot of info that’s unnecessary (like where to stay – I already booked my airbnbs). Any of you well traveled folks have suggestions on what guidebook series, if any, would be most useful on the day of?

      1. +1 for Rick Steves. We’ve also found his restaurant recommendations to be solid for days where we’re in decision fatigue mode and don’t feel like wandering down a block and having to choose which little cafe, exactly, we’re going to choose for lunch. It will never be the world’s most omginventive place, but it won’t be an awful tourist trap either.

        1. Rick’s the best! (also his recent NYT Magazine profile is a delight). They have pocket guides and stand alone city guides for each of the cities you’re going to. I think you’ll get better kid advice in the stand alone guides, but his website breaks down the differences.

    4. Not exactly what you asked, but check out TImeOut’s websites for their TimeOut Kids guides–they have some GREAT suggestions of what you’d want to do with kids. (For London: London Eye, Tower of London, Cabine War Rooms).

  31. What undergarments are best to wear under leggings while working out? I worry that the lace texture of my beloved hanky pankies isn’t a good option.

    1. Honestly, I just wear plain cotton full-coverage jockeys. And yes, I have undie lines. But I don’t have any weird infection issues and I really don’t give a rat’s butt that I have lines. I work out (several times a week) for me – not for my insta feed or the men in the gym.

    2. Wear whatever doesn’t chafe or nothing at all if comfortable. I choose not care about underwear lines while working out.

      1. +1 to not caring. If you know I have undie lines, the next question is “why are you looking at my butt?”

    4. Nada! If the pants have a piece of fabric shaped for the cr*tch area, they are designed to be fine with no underthings. Once I got over the idea that I had to wear undies all the time, life became WAY more comfortable :). Nike shorts with liners and yoga pants (not plain cotton leggings, which I do wear undies with) are now some of my most comfortable daily-wear options. If you have smell issues, you can pretreat the area with vinegar and then wash as normal or with sports detergent.

    5. I haven’t worn undergarments with yoga pants for years. Anything with a gusset can be worn commando.

    6. I wear HPs to exercise and wear them as my everyday for ~10 years. Why don’t you try it and see how you feel?

  32. Hello ladies. I would love to get some advice from you on my issue. I am beginning to realize that I have no social skills. Can you believe it when I say I moved to my current city & state in 2011 and I have made no new friends! The few friends I have near/in my city are from college or middle school. I have a couple of friends outside of the state. All in all I think I have 5 friends I call or chat regularly.
    Before I became a mom (to 15 month old), when I would meet other women through husband, I thought I couldn’t really make friends with them because I can’t relate to having kids. But now, even as a mom, I haven’t made other mom friends.

    I tried joining a meetup group for moms, which was kind of nice. But after one event the group disbanded and they didn’t invite me to join their what’s app group.

    I am an introvert, and not very talkative. When I do talk, I tend to overcompensate and say i think things that may be taken inappropriately or most of the time I don’t have a good quick response to people’s questions/ small talk.

    I want to do better, be more sociable/approachable, make new friends. Do you have any advice? Any self help books I should read? Do you think this is a deeper issue/ lack of confidence/ low self esteem that I need to see a professional for?

    1. I’m not sure I have much advice for you (other than to repost tomorrow earlier in the day) but I wanted to offer you internet hugs. I know this is really tough. But think of this – you do have friends that you made in college, so you clearly aren’t completely lacking in social skills. And what about work? Do you struggle with social interactions there?

      I’m introverted and have a limited number of close friends as well so I’m maybe not the best person to advise you, but I think that for people like us, the best strategy is for you to seek out people that you want to be friends with and make the effort. One of my best friends today is someone I singled out at a preschool parents’ night and decided I wanted to become friends with her. Now that your child is no longer a baby, you have a built in excuse to set up playdates or trips to the park. I would recommend finding people to interact with one-on-one. Bigger groups are tough for introverts to shine in, but you’re probably much better in a very small group or with just one person. I know I am.

      I also think that you’re going to have to put some effort into it if you want to make more friends. I’d almost always rather be home reading a book than going out but you have to do it if you’re going to connect with people. Same with lunch at work – get out of your office and ask people to lunch.

      As for tips, I think the old standbys apply – smile more, ask people about themselves, if something funny/interesting happens think about how you could tell a mini story about it, etc.

      Hopefully if you repost tomorrow, you’ll get more responses/tips. Good luck!

    2. I could have written your post. My only friends in my new city (since 2012) are 1. my college friend and 2. my next door neighbors. Please report tomorrow, I’ll be following.

    3. I don’t have great advice, but I’m in a very similar boat. I really only have 3 people I consider friends, and one of them lives on a different continent and is in a very different stage of life so we don’t talk much (I know she’d show up if I needed her and vice versa though). The other two I talk to pretty frequently but they live on the other side of the country. So yeah, zero local friends, basically zero in-person conversations with any adults besides my husband and my colleagues since I moved here in 2016. I also have a 15 month old (let me know if you want to be email buddies!) and I also thought having a kid would help me find local friends and it hasn’t at all. I’ve been really surprised by how standoff-ish the other daycare parents are – I don’t think they’re not nice people or anything, but I think a lot of working parents (especially those with two or more kids) are just kind of in survival mode. They’re trying to work, be with their families and put some level of effort into their existing friendships and they just don’t have the time and interest to connect with new people. I went to one toddler music class where the moms seemed more interested in making friends, but I didn’t click with anyone. I have hopes that it will get better when the kids are a bit older, but I really don’t know.

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