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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
Sometimes you just need a perfect, basic black blazer to throw on to complete an outfit. I like the slightly oversized look of this one from Eloquii. It’s slouchy, but not sloppy, and will look great with everything from jeans to straight-leg pants to dresses.
I would keep this next to my WFH desk for last-minute videoconferences or in my office to dress up for a surprise meeting.
The blazer is $119.95 full price at Eloquii and comes in sizes 14–28. It also comes in powder blue. Today, promo code OMG brings the price down to $71.97.
This Nordstrom blazer ($99) is an option for straight sizes, though it's currently only available in lucky sizes.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – 11/5 only – 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Up to 30% off on new arrivals
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – 11/5 only – 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Up to 30% off on new arrivals
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
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- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
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- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anon
I’m refreshing my job references and can’t decide who my third reference should be. Of the options below, who would you include?
Option A: Glowing reference from a manager at a job I don’t typically include on my resume because I made a career change to a different field. I worked with this individual for 5+ years, have previously used them as a reference, and am confident they have nothing but good things to say about my performance. But I don’t know how much it will raise eyebrows to use a reference from a job that didn’t appear on my resume.
Option B: Client from a project I worked on in my current role. The project ended about a year ago and my company does not have any existing business with the client. However, I’m not certain the reference would be entirely positive, since this was a one time client who has not requested repeat business.
Option C: Coworker from current job. I’m pretty sure I could trust one of my coworkers to be discreet, but this still feels risky to me.
Anonymous
C. One is silly and two is not an option. Or stick with who you have now.
I only allow jobs to call me references after a contingent offer.
Anon
+1 A coworker wont’ be discreet, but you should only offer a reference after you have an offer pending a reference check, so it shouldn’t really matter.
Anon
Is there a reason you’re not adding a job to your resume that you worked at for five years? If it’s really recent, that gap looks bizarre. If it’s a long time ago, I’m not sure how great the reference would be.
Ellen
It is not unusual. When I started applying for summer law jobs, I had worked for 5 years at our country club as a hostess every summer while attending college and law school. I did not put this job on my resume since I did not want to be a hostess or be thought of as just a pretty face. My Dad says I should have b/c that would have shown that I was very beautiful, but I wanted people to look at my resume for my acacemic credientials and my mental abilities, not my looks.
Anon
No to B. Is your current job the only one you’ve had since making a switch? I’d say A and if it’s too late to change your resume, put that job on your LinkedIn so it’s less like you’re trying to hide something. (Even if you’ve switched fields, I’d still include a job you had for 5 years, doesn’t need to be a lengthy addition to your resume.)
pugsnbourbon
+1. I have a spot on my resume for “other work experience.” It’s just a few lines and doesn’t take up much space.
OP
Yes, I think that’s part of the problem. Besides a couple internships, my current job is the only “real” job I’ve had in my field since my career change.
Anon.
I was recently in the same boat. Switched careers from science to business in my mid-thirties.
Here’s what I have done for references:
1) Current manager, if that’s an option at all and you can expect a glowing review.
2) A project lead from my current company who I supported very recently and intensely, and with whom I had developed an open and friendly relationship.
3) A project lead from my company who I worked with a few years ago. This was a temporary assignment to another business unit, but demonstrated my adaptability, ability to learn different business issues quickly, and to contribute as a SME.
4) A trusted work “friend”, now in another company, who I have interacted with for several small projects, but who knows me and my background, my work style, my journey within the company, and my goals.
One big tip I have is to provide your references with context and a framework for the reference call: In an email, write a few bullet points, describe the role you’re applying to and the aspects that would like your reference to focus on. I wrote something like this:
“This role is situated in [unit ABC], which does […] and consists of a team with […] expertise and […] background. Since you and I worked together on […], you may want to speak to my experience and abilities with regard to [XYZ].”
Under XYZ, you could list some specific accomplishments and skills – you’re basically providing your reference with a prompt, framework and “word bubbles” which they can use.
Good luck!
Anonymous
Reach out to B and get a better feel for the reference. Or have a trusted friend do a reference check on you. If all good, then use B.
Do not use A unless it’s on your resume.
Anonymous
Or…how about putting 2 references then “additional references available upon request”?
Anon.
Option A, but only if you add this job to your resume.
B is risky, and C I would only do if you’re 100% sure your coworker can be trusted.
Anonymous
I just made partner this year. I have been struggling to get enough billable hours (my practice group has seen a 40% decline in work compared to last year). I occasionally help another practice group with limited scope issues. A partner in that practice group asked me if I will handle a transaction by myself- no support from any partners, associates or staff in that practice area – because they are all so busy they can’t do it, but it’s from one of his key referral sources.
I appreciate him asking me. I am worried, though, because every transaction I have worked with him previously has been micromanaged and stressful. Think every draft or request needs to be done the next morning kind of thing. If I handled this on my own, I’d need a few days between things to both balance my normal practice area and make sure I have the right answers. Plus, no paralegal support. I’m concerned if I say yes, it will end up with me doing 100% of the work and the other partner micromanaging emails and deadlines and/or being upset that it is going slower than his team would do it. On the other hand, I do appreciate him asking me as he knows I’ve been light on work.
What would you do?
Anonymous
Say no, be sure you don’t know how to do it. You can’t delay turn around on a transaction because you’re a partner trying to figure it out.
Anon
Ignore the no support part of that. You’re a partner, you can pull in an associate and paralegal.
Anonymous
Eh, even in my large firm, this isn’t necessarily true. Resources are scarce, it’s been hard to hire quality people. I can always get A paralegal, the question is whether they have any idea what they’re doing, will they be honest with me about their progress, will they do the work at all, and will they mess up so badly that it takes me longer to fix their mistakes than it would’ve taken to do it myself in the first place.
Ellen
I would do it. How else can you expect to get the experience for next time? Morover, as other OP said, you are a partner, so you must have done some things right. I would take it and run with it, and get a few associates to help you who want to be a partner. The worse that can happen is that you mess it up and then the partner will bail you out.
Anonymous
This is my third year as a partner and I’ve been through something similar. To start, 100% of the time I’ve felt iffy about a new matter, it’s been a bad idea to take it on. Trust your gut. If this were a referral from a law school friend, rather than a partner at your firm, would you accept this matter? If the answer is no then you know what to do.
Right after I made partner, I took a case I didn’t feel good about, something felt off, but it came through a partner and I was still in the associate mindset that I needed to do the work assigned to me. Huge mistake. The client was lying to us, co-counsel was lying, it all started to come out and it made it look like I was lying to the court – thank god I knew opposing counsel and he put it in writing that hey we think your client is lying to you, I had to get my firm’s general counsel involved, it was a mess for months. Never again. Not saying your situation is that extreme but it just goes to show you should always trust your gut and don’t let these old white men bully you into sacrificing your professional reputation so they can look good with their golf buddy.
Anon
I don’t think taking on a matter you aren’t comfortable with completely by yourself for an important referral source is going to end well.
Anonymous
I would take it on as the rare opportunity to try something different, and deal with the micro management as a valuable learning experience.
Senior Attorney
I think a man would take it, and even if things went sideways, he would find a way to deflect blame and come out of it okay. I am less sure that you would be able to come out of it without getting your reputation dinged up if things go sideways.
It sounds like you really aren’t able to do what’s required, so I’d say no.
Anon
Thank you to everyone who recommended the pill removers by the Laundress. I managed to find both of them, and they have even removed inner thigh pills from my leggings!
H13
Was it the sweater comb? I have been looking at that one. If not, could you share a link? Thanks!
Anon
It was both, the sweater comb, and the sweater stone. The stone is here: https://www.thelaundress.com/sweater-stone.html
Anon
Pay attention when using the sweater stone. I was kind of zoning out while I was using one and worked a hole into a beloved sweater. I still use mine, but I stay focused.
Anon
Noted, thanks!
Anonymous
I have decided to try a work uniform at my business – business casual workplace this winter. I’m thinking black turtleneck as a base. Any favorite outfits? I’ll wear it with jeans on casual days. Maybe with a vest (I have one in four colors). For more formal days I can’t decide on suit skirt plus black tights or whether to do a belted long cardigan – afraid it’ll look too athleisure.
Anon
I’d stay away from an Elizabeth Holmes inspired look on the daily . . .
Anonymous
Same. Bizarre choices here.
Anon
I looked at some trial pics and I missed that she had her baby. I cannot imagine having an infant at home and juggling that with a felony trial. Considering how Elizabeth Holmes has abandoned her former look, I’d not adopt it now. [Also, maybe she will use a non-baritone voice for cooing over the baby. I’m guessing he/she is home with Dad? [I’m not sure if Dad has a job, but IIRC most daycares won’t take very young babies.]] As a working mom, the logistics of this are interesting to me (plus how playing the mom card would work in a felony trial / any likely inevitable sentencing vs how it worked for me at a job where I was not committing felonies and got absolutely 0 sympathy.
Anonymous
I believe the baby comes to court and Holmes is being given breaks to feed it. What a brilliant stroke for a con woman on trial. Her husband is very very wealthy, so they are not strapped for childcare. And it is now clear to me the uniform was necessary because Holmes has zero style sense. No matter. Prison also has a uniform.
Anon
This is fascinating. And yet . . . getting covered nowhere but here?
Anon
Feeding off of Succession, where do we think she’ll wind up? Alderson? Which is lovely and so close to the Greenbrier that husband and kiddo can stay there? And which is where Martha Stewart learned to knit (and where Tom Arnold’s sister was also, the Queen of Meth)?
I think that Martha Stewart set a high bar for women felon dressing at trial. E.Holmes should take a lesson.
pugsnbourbon
It’s working, because jurors keep dropping. Two have been excused – one because they are Buddhist and were concerned about punishment, and one because she thought Holmes was “so young” (she’s 37) and just had a baby. A third one got nixed the other day because they were playing sudoku in court.
Anonymous
Huh? It is being covered in numerous places, including podcasts reporting out at least weekly.
Anon
What is a good podcast covering Elizabeth Holmes? I have a couple hours of waiting-for-kid-at-music-recital-practice coming up and am now happy to have that dead time on my schedule.
Anon
Re: podcasts. The Dropout is my favorite but John Carreyrou’s Bad Blood: The Final Chapter is good also.
Anokha
Answer to the podcast question: I am LOVING “The Drop Out”, which is doing weekly coverage of the trial. I skipped the first season since I had read “Bad Blood.”
Anon
I start contemplating some of this stuff, and then get stuck on how irresponsible it is to have a baby when you’re going on trial on federal fraud charges and know you might have to do time. Then I think about what a calculating, manipulative person someone would have to be to have a baby as a get-out-of-jail-free card, so they look sympathetic to a jury. There’s an innocent infant who didn’t ask to be born being used as a pawn in this giant game Holmes is playing. She’s something else. I don’t think she’ll get convicted, and I also don’t think if she gets convicted she’ll do time, but she is one scary individual and I hope her online legacy lasts long enough for anyone else to avoid get duped into another one of her scams.
Anon
The only thing I could say in her defense of having the kid now is that she is 37. It’s not like she can have a kid in 5-10 years when she gets out (n.b., Alderson does have conjugal cabins; I hate that I know this).
OTOH, a courthouse is not place for an infant who has no functioning immune system if you have any alternatives to bringing it.
pugsnbourbon
A black turtleneck with wide-leg gray trousers looks sleek and classic. I’d still be wary of wearing one every day for the reason anon at 9:12 mentioned. I think turtlenecks with vests look a little teacher-y, but I might be visualizing the wrong kind of vest.
Vicky Austin
I have a pair of Old Navy Stevie pants that are a black/white/burnt orange houndstooth that looked great all last winter with a basic black turtleneck and some slightly glitzy pearl/gold earrings. I can’t see that the pattern is still available at ON but maybe for some inspiration!
Anon
Ah, jewelry would make it WAY less Elizabeth Holmes-y.
Anon
Other than the Elizabeth Holmes problem others have mentioned, I am just not sure how current daily black turtleneck wear is these days, and especially with the companion pieces you mentioned, I think you may look dated/out of touch. I think of turtleneck + vest as a very 70s revival look, and we’ve been out of the last 70s revival fashion cycle for a few years now. Ditto the belted long cardigan with the turtleneck. Add wide-leg pants to any of those and you’re in full-on Mary Tyler Moore territory. Unless you are in your 60s and also going to be rocking some fabulous arty jewelry and shoes with those pieces, I’m having trouble envisioning how to pull this off without looking completely out of touch. If you want a uniform, there are other options (one of my favorites is a nicer crewneck short-sleeve sweater under a collarless blazer, with whatever bottoms are appropriate for what you’re doing that day) that will look more current and probably also be more versatile.
Anon
I am on TeamMaximumTurtleneck and honestly loathe the black thin turtleneck thing. To me, thin turtlenecks must be white and layered under something not-white. Otherwise, turtlenecks much be chunky and worn as an outermost layer. I could make an exception for a merino turtleneck, but it’s so hard to find a good one that I’d advise against it (much less finding 5 of them to rotate through).
Anonymous
I am a no on the black turtleneck.
Anonymous
Vests aren’t commonly seen right now, so not something I would lean on for repeated wear. You’ll blend in better with a capsule if you choose something simple in a neutral. Like the same black or navy cardigan or crew neck sweater in a traditional style.
Anonymous
I eventually abandoned the work uniform because it’s very nearly as much work as picking something out of my closet that I actually love, but good luck to you! I vote LBD or black pants + shirt of your choice. I had the most success with black pants from NY&Co (RIP) and blue oxfords from J Crew. They go with heels, brogues, loafers, everything. After about a year I gave up because I switched jobs and was on a team of all men who wore oxfords. It seemed weird for me to be copying their style? Also my style evolved during that time (to nap dresses, ironically). It’s actually fairly difficult to keep buying pieces you love because of fast fashion.
Anon
If you do it, lean Shiv Roy and make sure you’re not leaning The Rock.
Saguaro
If you do it, lean Shiv Roy and make sure you’re not leaning The Rock.
Anon
I seriously die for all her midnight blues.
Shopping Help?
I’m about to step in to a relatively big promotion internally (in a very, very male-dominated arm of finance – BOOM!), which is a pretty external facing role. I need to level up some of my wardrobe stat. It’s a traditionally business semi-formal industry. I wore exclusively pants/dress suits until about 3-4 years ago and COVID has further watered down the formality, thankfully. That said, looking sharp, crisp, fitted is key. I’m also big right now – medical issues have me 1-2 sizes bigger than my equilibrium but there is no change in the foreseeable future so I’m just buying clothes for the body I have. Prob at 14-16 depending on the cut and brand, or a size L on top.
Couple of questions: (1) Need some jardigan recs. I have two from Jcrew I adore but need to add another 1-2 in the rotation. MMLafleur looks solid but how do they fit? Any others? (2) How is the brand Eloquii in terms of quality and materials? (3) Any recommendations for shoes that are not my otherwise lazy go-to Tory Burch flats? I have Blondo booties for the tights + dress look but need to add more into the rotation. I have normal width feet that trend wide (never wore a W size) and I’ve been warned Rothys are probably not for me. Is that 100% true or does sizing up really fix the problem?
I despise a lot of today’s fashion in general, so I’m trying to stay for more classic looks. I did trunk club when we had a designated stylist with a lot of success, and I just ordered my first trunk post-covid to give it a whirl. I’m also using Rent the Runway in the interim. Any recs would be most appreciated!
Anonymous
Rothy’s are plastic shoes for wearing to Target not a hard charging crisp step up! Nice black leather pumps or flats. You’ll have to try a bunch on.
I’m your size and Lafayette 148, Hugo Boss, and Elie Tahari are all good for elevated pieces.
Anon
This Rothy’s assessment is spot on. Look at Kate Spade and Frances Valentine for dressier flats, I’d also go block heels over flats in your kind of job.
Anon
Rothys are also good non-sneaker shoe for travel (esp. if you are doing a lot of walking) and conferences when you are standing for hours. The points look better, but they aren’t for all feet.
I don’t like the Rothys hate. They are really good at doing specific jobs. But they aren’t a substitute for a formal shoe for formal events.
OP
Thanks. I also have to do site tours that sometimes include conditions that require hardhats. So, I think there is a place in my circulation for them but I agree they’re not formal and don’t belong matched with a suit or anything along those lines. Probably also good for days that I’m kicking around the office and non client facing.
anon
Rothy’s are not going to fly if you are somewhere that you need steel toes! They won’t work to put the steel toe covers over.
Out of Place Engineer
I think that if hard hats are required, Rothys might not be substantial enough. Even if you don’t need steel toes, you should have closed toe/closed heel leather shoes. (At least at my construction sites/plants.)
Anon
Agree — there *should* be steel-toed Rothys. But until they are, just swap out to the proper shoe when needed.
Anon
Eh, I’ve got a billion pairs but they aren’t a polished work shoe. My office is casual so I can get away with it, but I don’t live in a fantasy land where I pretend they’re actually work shoes for a business formal environment.
Anonymous
+ 1. I have duck shaped feet and buy Cole Haan, Kate Spade, Tory Burch and Stuart Weitzman. Don’t do fabric shoes. Look for a low skimmer, wedge or a block heel, not a flat. Step up to bridge level clothing, not Eloquii. So, Elie Tahari, Rebecca Taylor or Lafayette 148. Splurge for a few basics if you need to, and then wait for sales from these good brand to fully stock your wardrobe.
OP
Thank you SO much! Have you had any luck with MM Lafleur? I bought a dress in a 16 that is a touch too large but I’m afraid to order a 14 and find out it’s too small. I can just do the 16 and return it I suppose but wondering if you have any direct experience. I would buy that entire line if I could!
Anon
I love MM LaFleur. Pay attention to the descriptions on the website – hips friendly, bust friendly, etc. Use the “ask a stylist” feature who will tell you which to order if you are between sizes.
anon
Eloquii has some solid staples in the midst of a lot of trendier items. I’ve been pleased with their blazers and dress pants (i’m a size 18). I recently bought the marino sweater jacket from talbots, and it’s been a new favorite. I have the MMLafleur jardigan and i reach for it with dresses. I think it fits consistently with most of their clothing. I find i baby it a bit, because the knit seems prone to pull. For shoes I would check out cole haan or I like the birdies leather loaders better than the rothys. I’d also check out banana republic, they seem to be returning back to solid classic looks.
anon
love the merino sweater jackets from Talbots for Northeast fall and winter. I bought and returned the Jardigan as I don’t like the fabric or fit…love MMLafleur dresses though.
Anon
Warning, Cole Haan runs narrow. I wear a solid medium width but the toe box is definitely narrow on me in every style I’ve bought.
Anon
Switch from round toe flats to a pointed toe – a lot more current and polished looking imo.
anon
Congrats on the promotion! A few thoughts: leather shoes are always going to look better. Go for loafers, or this time of year, you can get away with some polished low boots. No idea if the brand works for you, but my Ecco boots are my office staples. For the rest, I’d go to the classic office standards: Talbots, BR, Brooks Brothers. I have a jardigan from JCrew Factory that I love, but not sure if it’s polished enough for what you’re describing. The black one probably would be. I’d use MM La Fleur for inspiration but buy the pieces elsewhere if you can.
Anonymous
+1 to Ecco boots and agree on all counts re: J Crew Factory jardigan – love it but may be too casual.
Anon
I have insanely wide triangle duck feet, to the point that every Nike product causes me pain because they’re so narrow and I have to wear extra-wide New Balance like a grandpa. A size up in the Rothys points works completely fine for me.
Anon
Haha your description of your extra wide New Balance made me LOL!
Anonymous
At 14-16, Eloquii may not be a good fit for you. Are you a 14-16W or regular? When I was that size, I ordered a couple of items from Eloquii and realized immediately that I did not wear W sizes. I was not round or curvy enough for the items. I fit into Ann Taylor off the rack – more boxy than curvy. YMMV.
It sounds to me like you would benefit from going to a nice department store to shop for shoes and then perhaps you can go online once you’ve identified some appropriate brands that fit.
OP
I don’t think I am. I’ve never worn a W. My problem is a lot of the go to brands (BR, AT, Jcrew) don’t go beyond 14-16, and they sure as heck don’t have them in the store. Nordstrom, too. So shopping in person isn’t exactly an uplifting experience.
Anon
I swear Talbots does really well at neutral basics in high-quality fabrics with a staggering array of sizes. Maybe also Lafayette? Talbots is worth a visit to do try-ons for sizing. You probably have to order workwear in most cities (even mine). But pieces I bought years ago are holding their ground still. [My mom buys where more fashiony items, which don’t suit me, but their workwear is solid and their washable pants paid for themselves while looking really work-appropriate with a blazer. I am a petite and my SIL who is a womens petite shops there and looks fabulous. My mom is a regular size, but a Kindergarten teacher and wears formal clothes for church, so has different clothes needs.]
Anonymous
I love Talbots for precisely this reason. I can order a pair of pants or a jacket in like 4 sizes and really figure out what works best for my body, and then use that size as guidance going forward. Turns out that while I’m tall, I like a petite size in jackets because it is better proportioned to my torso. Who knew?
Anonymous
Agree on in-person shopping for clothes. It is crazy, given how many women are cusp size, but at cusp size it is a near impossibility, especially now. I do think in-person shoe shopping will help you, though.
Anon
+1. I am a cusp size (14w/16w) and my choices are, shop in person for clothes or do a lot of returning. Amazing to me how many brands make a regular 16 that fits like a sausage casing and a 16w that fits like a tent. So my other recommendation to OP is, don’t be afraid to go up or down outside your “normal size” to find the correct fit on something. I have clothes in my closet that go down to a size 10 and up to a size 22, in both regular and women’s. I start with my “regular” size and then go grab two sizes up and two sizes down, minimum, to get an appropriate fit. This is an advantage of Talbots, because if they don’t have the correct size in store they or you can order it from their dizzying array of size options.
Anonymous
J Crew goes to 24, and Banana Republic goes to a 20.
Anon
For this, I’d strongly recommend a Nordstrom’s personal shopper to help you find a few classic looks that can mix and match, including shoes. Congratulations!
Ribena
If this were me I’d go and spend some serious money at Hobbs on 4-5 dresses, 1-2 jackets, and 1-2 smart cardigans, plus good shoes to go with them.
Anon
I would shop MMLF. If you’re on the fence between sizes, size up. It’s slightly smaller than mall brands. I think they have free returns.
Coach Laura
Shopping help – if you can’t go to a MMLF store or popup, I would order a ton of MMLF for home try on. Your worry about choosing 16 or 14 is misplaced – order both and return with free shipping – their model is built on this process. I’d order 2-4 jardigans, 2-4 dresses and other pieces and then decide.
I love Talbots for sweater/jackets and suit pieces, like jackets to wear over dresses but think their suits are not high enough quality/style to equate to Lafayette 148 or Boss or similar. I would also get a Nordstrom styling appointment – they should be able to pull together several pieces that are at the right level of formality, sharp, crisp and put together. You might also try Brooks Brothers, Pendleton.
Anon
Also in a very male-dominated arm of Finance, also have to do lots of walking with men that have much larger strides than me, and around a 12-14. When I was still in the office, I wore a suit-adjacent look almost all the time: Dress pants, button down or work-appropriate top, blazer, and low block heel boots like the Clarks Adreena.
You can dress this up or down as needed – go to a full pants suit with loafters, or go to dark wash denim in a straight or boot cut leg, neutral fitted tee, and a sweater blazer from J Crew Factory with flats. Keep jewelry minimal – a single pendant necklace and a watch will be fine. With this formula, I never felt out of place with the men around me.
Anon
Hi, most of my formal-side-of-business-casual clothing is in your target sizes. I shop MM La Fleur, Eileen Fisher, Talbots (particularly their 100% wool – check out their sweater jackets), and some Nordstrom in-house brands. The quality wasn’t there with Eloquii, and I found Universal Standard too casual leaning for the most part.
I also went a little cheaper on blouses sometimes (not always) and for a while I really liked the wrap blouses from Loft.
When you’re buying a basically from-scratch wardrobe, which I’ve had to do a few times due to weight gain and loss, it’s best to stick to a couple of neutrals for “base” pieces like dresses, skirts, and pants, and work around those. My winter neutrals tend to be black and gray, mainly so I can wear opaque black tights and my black knee high boots in the worst weather. In summer I lean navy and lighter gray for base pieces.
Good luck and congrats on the promotion! We need more women in senior Finance roles!
Anon
Also recommend you look at Boden. They carry cusp sizes. Their pandemic offerings have skewed more causal and less smart workwear, but they have some really lovely dresses. If you like MM Lafleur you will like some of their dresses too.
A
Shoes …Ferragamo. NOT Rothys
Clothes…Boss, The Fold, Max Mara
Congratulations
Anon
Silly question for the day. my husband works from home 2 days a week, I work from home 5 days a week. We have this great office and a less great desk in another room. What do you think a fair split of office desk use is? We each get it 1 day that he works from home? Or he gets it both days bc I am getting it the 3 days that he works from the office?
MagicUnicorn
Improve the desk in the other room, then you each get a decent home workspace?
Otherwise I vote for you getting the decent one all five days, because it’s your sole work location and moving locations multiple days a week is a hassle.
Cat
I agree with this, I have my desk set up exactly how I like it and it would be annoying to “hot-desk” in my own house. I’d focus on making the secondary space more useful for your husband.
nuqotw
+1. Spouse was always WFH and when the pandemic hit he (rightfully, IMHO) viewed me as the interloper in his workspace. His office set up remained the same and I made do (although when courts were closed and I was teaching remotely full time he graciously ceded our combined bedroom / offices so I could teach in a quiet space).
Anon
I would do this too, and I can’t imagine moving around all the time in my own house either. Get a great desk and spruce up the other room.
anne-on
This. We swapped desks early on during Covid and it drove both of us nuts to try to hot desk in our own home. I prefer a MUCH different set up than my husband does (he uses multiple monitors). He got a stand sit desk and a better chair and we both kicked ourselves for not doing it sooner.
Senior Attorney
Yup. The “good desk” is your permanent workstation and he doesn’t get to kick you out of it when he’s home. If the other workspace isn’t good enough for him then it needs to be upgraded.
Anon
Agreed. I WFH full time, permanently. When I started this job, I my workspace was in a corner of my bedroom, using a makeshift desk with a bad office chair. After I started joining video calls and people saw my setup, I was counseled by my new coworkers (who have been WFH forever) to not ad-hoc/jerry-rig my workspace, but to be intentional about how and where I work in my house, and it was good advice. Within a month, I evicted my husband and son and their stuff from the catchall TV/video gaming room and made it my office. I need my own space, where things stay where I leave them. The longer I do this WFH thing (and I hope to continue it forever), the more grateful I am to have MY space with my things set up for maximum comfort and efficiency. Claim your space! If the household relies on your income, the members of the household need to respect your need for space.
Anonymous
In my house we wouldn’t want to be swapping desks all the time, so whoever WFH full time would get the better desk.
Anonymous
You get it every day because swapping desks is annoying and dumb. You buy a new desk for the other room.
Anon
You get it every day because swapping desks is annoying and dumb. You buy a new desk for the other room.
Anon
Buy a new desk clearly.
Anonymous
You get the office every day because it is your only work location. Do what you (meaning primarily your husband) can to make the other room a better workspace.
This is my opinion even if his work is forcing him to wfh two days a week. However if it’s his choice to wfh then I wouldn’t even entertain a discussion about him kicking you out of your office, certainly not in the name of “fairness.”
Ellen
I think the person with the more responsible job should get the good space. If that is him, give it to him. If it is you, you take it. Usually the person with more papers should stay, but if it is him and he only works 2 days a week there, don’t stuff him in a space where he can’t spread out his work. If you are the one with the tough job and paper work, of course stay where you are. You can make it up to him in other ways such as by cooking dinner b/c you are the SAH person, so that when he comes home, he does not have to bring take out or open a can of tuna fish.
anon
Are your WFH schedules temporary or permanent? If permanent, I echo everyone else’s advice – new desk and spruce up the other office space so both are nice. If this is just temporary until he goes back to the office full time in January, for example, then flip a coin and make do.
Anonymous
If it’s temporary, all the more reason for husband to suck it up and use the less desirable space.
Anon
Husband needs to camp out at the other desk. It’s the height of selfishness to think you need to give up your full time work space to accommodate his temporary two days a week from home. He can buy a better desk if he wants one, but why on earth does he feel entitled to kick you out of your established office? (I will give you a hint; it’s on the Y chromosome)
Anonymous
Has anyone tried the Dennis Gross LED mask? I ordered one from the Sephora sale and am now waffling on whether to open it or return. I am specifically looking to reduce the appearance of deep forehead wrinkles, which my NuFace doesn’t seem to help. Is the LED mask worth the splurge or is it just false hope? (No, Botox and other in-office treatments are not an option for a variety of reasons.)
Anon
Just accept your wrinkles. Botox et al is he solution for that. Save your money if they don’t work for you.
Anonymous
The only thing that will work is Botox. Don’t waste your money on this product
NYCer
I have one, and I really like it FWIW. I don’t have deep forehead wrinkles yet, so I can’t comment on that part of it, but I do think my skin looks better overall after consistent use (every night) for several months. I have found that the blue light also really helps with breakouts if that is an issue for you.
Anon
I was told point-blank by my derm that the solutions for deep wrinkles are fillers, Botox, or face lifting. Topical treatments, light treatments, microneedling, peels (unless they go very deep – nothing you can or should do at home would be strong enough), non-clinical dermabrasion, etc. aren’t going to create substantial enough improvement to be worth the time and expense. That mask is pretty expensive; I’d return it. If you can’t/won’t do in-office treatments the next step is learning to live with your wrinkles, which can be softened and somewhat smoothed by stuff you can do at home, but won’t go away.
Carol
What would you keep in your locker at work if you’re going back to the office 2-3x a week and it’s hoteling desks?
Let’s not derail this with how much ppl hate hoteling, I’m excited to be back and don’t really mind it.
Anonymous
All the stuff I’d keep in my desk drawers if I had an office.
Anonymous
Shoes, tea cup, water bottle, Advil, tissues, mini make up bag, sweater, black blazer in case I suddenly need to look formal
HW
All of this, plus a little tube of hand lotion.
Senior Attorney
And tampons or whatever. (If I were young.)
I live and work in earthquake country so I also keep a change of clothes and shoes in my office for when The Big One hits and I have to walk five miles home. YMMV but tornadoes or whatever…
Anon
Yes, no matter what your area’s emergencies tend to be, there are building fires and other reasons buildings get evacuated. Always keep a pair of shoes you can walk in, and walk down the stairs in.
I say this after being a floor warden in my prior office – I signed up so I could get free CPR training – and it’s honestly shameful how many women couldn’t walk down 5 flights of stairs due to their shoes.
Cb
A scarf or shawl in case it gets cold, the preferred office supplies, and some chocolate or your snack of choice, I have no chocolate in my office, I’ve had an array of irritating student interactions today, and it is grim.
Carol
I’m tempted to go down and get like a muffin already, 1 hr into the work day. This could be averted if I had like a granola bar in my office.
TheElms
Where is the locker located in relation to the desk? If it is far away, I’d probably find some kind of file box with a handle (I think Levenger had these ages ago possibly meant to hold magazines/files) and stick all the stuff I would use at my desk in that so I could easily carry it from the locker to my desk. For me this would be hand lotion, tissues, Chapstick, a comb, pens/pencils, highlighters, notebooks, tape flags, post its, hand sanitizer, and Tylenol/bandaids.
Other than that I would probably have a pair of black pointed to flats, a black jardigan or blazer, and some makeup in the locker. Some people might want to add gym stuff if there is a gym in the office.
Anon
I had a cubby and hoteling desks pre-COVID and I kept essentially nothing in my cubby. Some paperwork or files that were long term important but also not routinely used (like generic benefits information). Pretty much all work materials are digital in my job and the hoteling desks had standard office supplies on them. My gym clothes or sneakers or an extra sweater stayed in there sometimes, but never for more than a day or two, most of that stuff I just kept at my desk of the day. I have an office now and I have no idea what I possibly need to keep in here, there’s just …nothing I need that’s not on a computer.
Ribena
They’ve moved everything in our building around and I have no idea where my locker is ?. I’m intending to put a bag with a towel and wash stuff in there, because most days I plan to go to the gym after work and therefore don’t bring that stuff with me (because I can just go straight home from the gym and shower there), but there have been a few days when I’ve had a 90 minute gap midday and wished I could have gone then – or been asked to post work drinks that I can’t go to because I’ll be sweaty.
Also planning to put a bag containing tights, tampons, towels, safety pins, tissues, etc, in there. Maybe a spare USB charging cable?
If I get a second keyboard and mouse at some point I’ll maybe put them in there, along with my second laptop power cable. At the moment those go in my backpack though.
anon
I have an employee who is fantastic, so much so that I’ve hired her in two different companies. But, her resume sucks. It’s like 7 pages with odd spacing and doesn’t really show how great she is. I would be doing her a favor to talk to her about it, right? I’m hesitating because I don’t want to overstep and make her think there’s some ulterior motive for me bringing up her resume out of nowhere, but on the other hand, I want to make sure she has a good marketing document if she ever wants to leave and move on to somewhere better.
Have the conversation and help, or not my place?
Anonymous
Can it be done through some 3rd party as part of overall rofessional development? I was given the opportunity for PD training twice by my mentor and both sessions included resume stuff.
Anon
You want to encourage her to leave? If her LinkedIn is solid, I’d let it go. It probably doesn’t matter and you want to keep her with you, no?
Helen
I don’t think you can bring it up out of nowhere. Maybe if you are providing resumes when pitching to a client or something but otherwise people just don’t think of their resumes when they’re not job searching.
Anonymous
If my boss said something about my resume in any context other than a grant proposal where my resume was part of the package, I’d freak out and assume I was about to be laid off.
MND
Why is her resume on your mind right now? Did you just hire her? If it was longer than a few months ago, it would strike me as really weird for a manager to be thinking about it, and if it was recently that you hired her, it’d be weird to me to have my manager coach me on a hiring related document (though with the right messaging, maybe it could work).
Is there any need for her to use her resume internally (e.g., for an award or committee work?) If so, that might be an angle to bring it up under “… I noticed when you applied a few months ago that you have a longer resume. In my experience in our industry, people in your role typically have a 1-2 page resume. As you are applying for this internal promotion/award/committee, would you mind me giving you feedback on the document to make sure you are positioned well?”
anon
Good question… it’s because *I* am thinking of leaving! I just hired her not too long ago, and if I leave, I guess I wanted to make sure she’d be able to move up or move somewhere better without a badly written resume holding her back.
I think everyone is right, though, that bringing it up out of nowhere would give the wrong signal. Def not my intention.
Anonymous
Give her the feedback after you go.
Cat
The time to bring it up would have been when you were hiring her the 2nd time, not out of the blue now. (Like, “Jane, I’m so glad you’re interested in working with me again. I’m going to bring you in for an interview but suggest you first get your resume down to a standard 1-2 pages rather than 7, so that my colleagues who haven’t worked with you directly don’t get a bad impression from your current one. If you’d like me to help you after you’ve taken a first draft of it, I’d be delighted.”)
If my boss randomly brought up my resume from a few years ago, I would assume there was something she was quietly trying to tell-but-not-tell me about my lack of future at my job.
Anonymous
Totally agree. A colleague did this for me once. She was recruiting me to her firm and she looked over my resume before sending it up the ladder. I really appreciated her help!
anon
Good point. I didn’t remember from the first hire how long her resume was. I asked her to apply for the second job, and I didn’t see her resume until it was uploaded in our hiring software and too late to change it. She’s only been with me at company 2 for maybe 6 weeks so it’s not years in this case.
Anon
If it’s only been a few weeks I think you can say hey, was cleaning out my files and came across your resume again and wanted to note …
Kelsey
This is off-topic, but you hired her to work with you at the new company, but you are looking to leave the company? Would you be interested in taking her with you to the new place? I guess if I were her I’d be very surprised that you recruited me to a company and you’re leaving so soon after I arrived.
Anon
If she ever initiates a conversation about you hiring her, you can mention that it was despite her resume. Frame it as “I know you’re fantastic because I’ve worked with you before; your resume does not do you justice.” Then leave it at that and let her follow up if she wants to.
Anon
I would use different phrasing though, because the recipient could here that this is a ‘the places you’ve worked/titles aren’t great’ versus ‘the way that information is presented isn’t great’. Instead you could say ‘without knowing the person, most people decide on the first page of a resume if they are interested, which is why it is a business standard to have only a 1-2 page resume.’
Anon
It’s my first season change from being back in the office. I tried on a pair of wool pants to see if they fit. They did! I was so improbably happy that I wore real pants to work (like nothing is elasticized but they are not tight or straining on me so it is actually fine). I then realized that I forgot how to style an outfit and picked shoes that are are OK.
Any recommendation for tan 1″ block heel shoes? I had some Lady Day clones from J. Crew that were so worn that I let a kid wear them (so now they are REALLY worn) and can’t find anything like that now (and have no budget for Varas, which might be perfect). Otherwise, the pants are hemmed for this length and heels would look weird with them (and my feet would hate me).
Anonymous
Tory Burch.
Anon4This
Just a scream into the void. DH and I went out to a very nice, highly-rated restaurant that has gotten national coverage for our anniversary. We had a lovely time, great food….and literally only 50% of servers were masked. Fortunately our reservation was outside, we are vaxxed/boosted, but I just don’t get how this is remotely okay. It doesn’t help that our state leadership has basically forbade cities/counties from enforcing any type of mask mandates, and I know businesses have had enough of being put in this position.
Cat
I think the servers are higher-risk than you are since they are in a crowd of unmasked diners inside and out for several hours… so wouldn’t be particularly worked up about it, *especially* given your own precautions.
Anon
Agree. The risk is to them, much more than to you.
Anonymous
I don’t understand why restaurant owners aren’t mandating that servers wear masks just to prevent disruptions to their business. Several of our local restaurants have had to close down for a week or more at a time due to outbreaks among the staff that result in shortages.
Anonymous
I don’t understand why they aren’t doing it when other businesses that DO mandate masks are desperate for workers too. If I were still in a server job, I’d quit any anti-mask establishment and just go right on over to another business that tries to protect me.
Cat
If there are rules against mask mandates in OP’s area — which btw I find to be ridiculous — I’m guessing that the servers themselves, even if they would be inclined to wear a mask, are worried they’ll lose tips if they wear one, restaurant owners are worried that customers won’t come to such a “worrywart” establishment, etc…
Anon
Private businesses can always enforce mask mandates. The states that have ‘banned’ mask mandates have only said government entities (such as schools and county offices) can’t require them. There is nowhere in the US that a restaurant can’t require their servers to be masked.
OP
Yup – this is spot-on. Our governor (Abbott/TX) has taken away any enforcement power of local authorities. When we had a city/county mask mandate, things were a lot better.
Anon
are you in Houston by any chance? bc i am and it is a struggle. as a parent with young kids, it is hard for some of my friends/family in other areas of the country (lots of family in NY, CA, MA, MD, DC, etc.) to understand how different things are here compared to where they live. you’d think we weren’t all dealing with the same virus.
Anonymous
Ugh, I’ll join you into screaming into the void. We grabbed takeout from a business where none of the servers were wearing masks and I had sort of assumed that they were probably vaccinated, but I found out later that the business is rabidly anti-science, has refused all county orders to wear masks, etc. The food wasn’t even good!! We were trying to avoid picking a business based on Yelp reviews in the interest of being spontaneous, but I regret going there and really hope I didn’t get Covid (high-risk).
Anon
I will say in defense of why masks get left off is that it is just hard to do work with things in your hands when you have a mask on. It really limits my lower field of vision, so it makes some jobs (cooks, restaurant people, people dealing with stairs) a lot harder than when your job just lets you look ahead vs down.
If this were like Ebola, we’d be masked up and also not going out. But after I got my shots and my kids got there shots, I don’t treat restaurants like I do something like a cancer ward in a hospital.
Anon
um, then how do doctors and nurses manage to do their jobs? also – i don’t understand the cancer ward analogy as cancer is in no way shape or form spreadable between people
Anon
Cancer people are immunocompromised, so you’d take care around them not to get them sick with other things, yes?
Anonymous
I have cancer and I think people often overlook that we are out in your communities, too. I’m not eating at restaurants, but I’m still sharing grocery stores, transit, dental offices and other places where these people who can’t be bothered with masks will go.
Anonymous
Wait, what? I wear a mask for work all the time (required anytime you’re inside my office building) and used to wear one for the parts of my job that were outside back when that was also a requirement. I’ve done a ton of stuff on with a mask including using power tools and never ever felt like my field of vision was compromised…
Anon
You know that it’s really, really hard for restaurants to find workers now, right? Your choices are a server who does what they want with masks or no server. Impose a mask mandate and you’ll have no server. You can think it’s foolish, you can think it’s stupid, you can think the risk is on them far more than you (you’re vaccinated and boosted, so it’s a bit ridiculous for you to be worried), but if you don’t want a maskless server, get your meal to go.
Anonymous
Actually, wouldn’t a mask mandate attract servers?
Anonymous
No. It would not in a state where mask mandates are forbidden. And the point about masked servers potentially losing tips and restaurants imposing mask mandates losing customers is spot on. I am in such a state and I am looked at with disdain when wearing a mask in certain establishments and virtually everywhere in most places outside of my large city.
Anon
Who cares. You’re vaccinated and it’s outside. It’s more than remotely okay.
Anon
Yeah, this is a weird complaint. Now that vaccines are readily available and include kids, you can get boosted, this is as good as it’s going to get. Do you want to mask forever? Never eat inside? I mean it’s up to you, but we’re moving to endemic and no longer pandemic. I think OP’s expectations are out of whack.
Anon
Hello, kids under 5 exist. The vaccine is not available to everyone yet.
Anonymous
Kids under 5 should not be eating at restaurants right now if their parents are concerned. I say this with love, with kids under 5 (and under 11, who are not yet fully vaxxed). Why on earth are people bringing a 4 year old out to eat in a pandemic?!
Anon
We don’t bring our under 5 kids to restaurants right now. But I’m tired of everyone declaring the pandemic over when my kid can’t get vaccinated.
Anon
Hi, I feel you, and we’ve cut back on outdoor dining with our preschooler for this reason. Mask wearing completely went away in restaurants in my state over the summer, despite the fact that less than 60% of adults are vaccinated here. It’s so frustrating. When we do go to restaurants, we wear masks and just pull the masks down to eat. Most of your interaction with the server happens before the food has arrived, so that means we’re masked when the server is talking to us for the most part. It looks silly, but I don’t care, if it keeps us safer.
anon
My advice – call the business before hand if the servers not being masked will interfere with your dining experience. Plenty are up front about whether servers are masked or not, and it is your choice whether or not to go. I will say that in our area, even the restaurants that were the most compliant with social distancing measures are slowly starting to make masks optional as their staff are generally fully vaxxed, if not boostered as well (based on timing of when shots were available). At the risk of sounding like a Republican (which I very much am not), people won’t be wearing masks forever and depending on your location, it probably is time for them to start coming off.
Anon
the difference is, in your area most staff are generally fully vaxxed…some of us live in places where that is most likely not the case, and yes we ‘choose’ to live here, but it’s not so easy to just pick up and move. i still blame our former president for making mask wearing into some sort of political statement
Anonymous
This doesn’t bother me, unless the servers were specifically breaking a law or you made reservations for a restaurant that advertised all servers wearing masks. You are vaccinated. Your husband is vaccinated. Your server may or may not be vaccinated, but that’s his/her choice. YOU WERE OUTSIDE.
If you are uncomfortable with unmasked people outdoors, you should consider forgoing dining out.
Anonymous
This doesn’t bother me, unless the servers were specifically breaking a law or you made reservations for a restaurant that advertised all servers wearing masks. You are vaccinated. Your husband is vaccinated. Your server may or may not be vaccinated, but that’s his/her choice. YOU WERE OUTSIDE.
If you are uncomfortable with unmasked people outdoors, you should consider forgoing dining out. Truly, I think the servers do not owe you mask-wearing outdoors because you chose to dine there and you feel uncomfortable.
Helen
What’s my office dress code, and how formal can I dress without it being weird? I prefer to wear clothes that are on the more formal side of business casual, but also don’t want to stick out. At a previous job at a big 4 consulting firm I wore solely dresses and pencil skirts because I found them to be the most comfortable.
Anyways today the men are wearing jeans or khakis with button down shirts, and the women are wearing work pants (not jeans, would buy from Ann Taylor etc) and a blouse. I’m wearing wide legged black velvet-ish pants and a plain shirt from BR factory today, with this colorful jacket that would have looked out of place at Big4 but is fine here.
Anonymous
I think 1 “extra” piece at a time is fine, but that’s it. So wear the jacket with a low key top and pants. I would leave the velvet pants at home.
Anonymous
You sound overdressed but fabulous. Velvet strikes me as a fancy party fabric not really a traditional office fabric. And a blazer elevates a look even if you were wearing jeans. All that said, I personally think it’s better to be overdressed than underdressed. The only people who have ever given me a hard time about it were dudebros who would’ve found fault with anything I wore because a woman larger than a size 4 should never leave the house.
H
I can’t tell if its velvet or corduroy? Which is a weird place to be, I know.
Anonymous
Moleskin?
Anon
I’m vaxxed and boosted and just tested positive for Covid. On the upside, my only symptom is mild post nasal drip, but SIGH.
Cat
So… this is good. The vaccine worked. It was never going to be 100% effective at preventing infection at all and eradicate Covid. It was going to transform it into a manageable, endemic disease. (I agree it’s disruptive to test positive at this point due to associated quarantine or logistics issues, though, putting aside confidence in a mild case and smooth recovery!)
Vicky Austin
+1 million. Feel better soon, OP.
Anon
OP here – I honest feel like I should do ads for the vaccine because from a health perspective I am essentially 100% fine. The life disruption is a massive PITA, though.
Anon
Exactly.
Anonymous
Sorry to hear it – hope you stay feeling okay!!
The same thing is happening with the Cal football team – I think it’s 44 cases (that they know of) on a 99% vaccinated team. It’s in the local news this morning. No serious illness reported, but it’s unclear to me whether there likely would’ve been any serious illness cases on a young, very healthy athletic team even in the absence of the vaccine. My husband’s office has also reported nearly 100 cases (almost all community-acquired) among a 95%+ vaccinated workforce. Definitely makes me very nervous as one of the immunocompromised people eagerly awaiting more research on whether the vaccine (and booster) is working for me…
Anon
Cant’ your doctor check your antibodies?
Anonymous
No. Antibody testing is not recommended for immunocompromised at this time. The tests offered by private companies are all over the place and “a total mess” (i.e., not reliable) according to one leading expert on the subject, we do not yet know what level of antibodies is considered protective, and antibody testing does not assess T-cell or B-cell response. The tests therefore can’t be used to assess whether immunocompromised individuals have any level of protection (until further research is available, anyway).
Anon
To add to this, I’m immunocompromised and talked to my doctor about antibody testing. The results are so unreliable neither of us knew if we’d feel comfortable relying on a positive or a negative test. So then why take the test? It’s unfortunate.
Anon
Hmm, I know several immunocompromised people who got antibody testing at the recommendation of their doctors. I know it isn’t recommend for the general public at this time, but the recommendations for the immunocompromised must vary based on doctor.
Anon
Honestly, this is why I just cannot accept the CDC position that breakthrough cases are super-rare. I just personally know far too many people who have had a breakthrough infection (now including me). But honestly, these symptoms are so mild that anyone who didn’t already have cause to suspect COVID just wouldn’t get tested, so most cases like mine aren’t turning up in the stats I guess.
Anon
I believe the CDC only tracks breakthrough infections leading to hospitalization or death, and those are extremely rare.
I’ve also seen people saying breakthrough cases in general are rare, which is also not my lived experience. But everyone I know who has had a breakthrough infection has had a mild case, so that feels like a win!
Anon
Yes, as far as I know when the CDC says breakthrough cases, they mean cases that lead to hospitalization or death.
It’s concerning to me since it’s been confirmed that breakthrough cases can lead to long COVID in patients who didn’t need hospitalization, and it would be nice to have good data on how good the protection against long COVID is.
Anonymous
Agreed. Only reporting on breakthrough cases leading to hospitalization or death is a political move. I want data on long COVID and to help make decisions for those with medical conditions affecting their level of vaccine protection. If you’re not fully protected, how can you make a decision like whether to go to all-vaccinated Christmas dinner if you don’t know how likely mild breakthrough cases are?
Anon
If you read the articles about the Cal team, they did not require symptomatic players to test, mask, or quarantine, so the outbreak is not surprising from that standpoint.
Anonymous
Wow sorry that happened. If you don’t mind sharing, why did you get tested? Were you in contact with someone or did you suspect something was wrong all on your own?
Anon
Thanks for flagging this. As a person with seasonal allergies, I would never test b/c my life is nothing but mild covid symptoms depending on the pollen and local mold spore count.
Anonymous
Yeah my seasonal allergies are basically year round allergies because I’m allergic to something in every season! I’m still not really sure what I should be on the lookout for, other than a cough or loss of taste/smell.
anonymous
I’m not OP, but I had a bad stuffy nose a few weekends ago and went to get a rapid test after it had lingered for a few days because I had plans to go to a birthday dinner that evening and fly to a conference on Monday. It was negative. I’m vaccinated and I didn’t have a fever, cough, or other covid symptoms (my sense of taste/smell was diminished which is what put me over the edge to decide to get tested, but of course, that still happens when you have a stuffy nose). I didn’t want to cancel these events on a suspicion that I had a break through case, but I also wouldn’t have felt right doing those things without confirming that I did not have covid.
Anon
Wow — I wouldn’t have expected that except that I sort of think that COVID isn’t going away and we may all just get it at some point (but in a mild and annoying way, not in a hospitalized and gravely ill sort of way).
Can you share any annecdata? Group indoor meals? Travel? Living with roommates who may have GFs/BFs rotating in and out from their apartments?
Anon
Symptomatic breakthrough cases are happening all the time. Why are you surprised?
Anon
My sense is that breakthrough cases are mostly spread by unvaxxed people and not spread by the breakthrough case (annecdata from our city where most cases I know of are vaxxed kids who presumably brought it home from unvaxxed kids at school but didn’t have any household spread). I don’t know of any literature on it and as the holiday travel visiting indoor seasons is shortly upon us (and I work with idiots, my kids go to school with idiots, and some local relatives are idiots), I just want to have a sense of whether I need to channel my inner hermit or just surrender to where the current carries me. Getting my booster over Thanksgiving and will bingewatch the break vs going out anywhere, even if I feel fine.
Anon
I know a lot of vaccinated people who caught it from a vaccinated person. There are recent studies that viral loads in the vaccinated and unvaccinated are the same. I really don’t think being vaccinated cuts down much on your odds of transmission if you get it, although you’re less likely to get it in the first place.
Also probably depends what vaccine – there was a recent study that the J&J vaccine was only 3% effective, so basically worthless, but people who got one shot of J&J are (wrongly, imo) still considered ‘fully vaccinated’ in the US.
Anon
I got it from my unvaccinated kid, FWIW. I know that they say that the level of virus in the nose is the same for vaxxed as unvaxxed people, but I have to feel like the odds of spread are lower because I’m not coughing/sneezing.
Cat
yeah, I’m in mod above bc I used tr-ns, but … the vaccine worked. It was never going to eradicate Covid or prevent 100% of infections, just turn into a manageable endemic disease!
Eventually, let’s say the world is 100% vaxxed… guess what, 100% of Covid will be breakthrough cases :)
Anonymous
This is so weird. Breakthrough cases are super common.
Anonymous
Well, yeah, that’s how vaccines work. You aren’t in the hospital.
Hope you feel better soon!
Anon
Gee, thanks. I didn’t say anything that indicates a lack of understanding about how vaccines work – but it sucks to test positive even if you aren’t sick.
Anon
OP here – for those asking, I got it from my child who is too young to be vaccinated. He was very sick and I’m essentially totally fine, so I think this really illustrates the value of the vaccine.
Now, where he picked it up is really a mystery at this point – his only exposure to people outside the family is a vaccinated nanny (who is negative) and a 2 day/week preschool (with vaccinated, masked teachers, and strict bubbles so kids only interact with their own class). The preschool teachers and other kids are also all negative. No one else in the family is positive (and I definitely got it from him given the timeline). I’m sure there is some contact with someone I’m forgetting – COVID doesn’t just appear out of nowhere – but kid basically doesn’t leave the house at all except to play in the yard, visit family, or go to preschool and everyone he interacts with in those experiences has tested negative. It would have to be something like someone we walked past at the outdoor farmer’s market or while on a walk, honestly, and I just didn’t think you could get COVID from that kind of incidental contact.
Anon
And good lord, people, I didn’t say anything to suggest that this is a sign the vaccine didn’t work, so please stop reading that implication into it. Testing positive is a real pain, even if you aren’t particularly ill, and it should be okay to say that without there being assumption that one is ignorant, anti-vaxx, etc.
Anonymous
I hear you, OP. Those responses are obnoxious.
Cat
So, I think your original post is a little vaguer than you intended as to the source of your annoyance. The SIGH could be read a lot of ways.
Anon
I take that point, although I also think folk around here could do a bit of work on not assuming the worst of everyone who comments. I figured that given that I’m both vaccinated and have already had the booster, people wouldn’t jump to “she’s saying the vaccine doesn’t work,” but I guess not. It just feels like so much work to comment here sometimes; if you don’t word everything precisely and include every relevant scrap of background information (that my kid was seriously ill with COVID, that I’ve actually worked in vaccine development myself, that my older children were part of the Pfizer pediatric study, etc. etc. etc.), you’re almost guaranteed to get snarky responses.
Anon
Same thing happened to me last week when I posted about my husband’s breakthrough case (and long term symptoms)—posters jumping on me for posting about an “unsubstantiated “ case. I am not quite sure what would “substantiate” this. People are cranky and opinionated and they are spreading that, regardless of whether they are spreading covid. I hope you feel 100% soon and your kid is on the mend.
Anon
Not an MD, but my money would be on an asymptomatic preschool classmate (who may have already cleared the virus and be testing negative now, if all the children are currently testing negative). My niece and nephew got Covid at preschool, along with a bunch of their classmates, from an asymptomatic child. Getting it from walking by someone outside would be extraordinarily rare.
Hope your child is better now and you continue to have very mild symptoms!!
Anon
Thanks, I have wondered if that was the case, because the other school kids really seem like the most likely route of exposure. My son did have to be hospitalized briefly, but now just a few days later you’d barely know he’d ever been sick other than the fact that he’s tired, fortunately!
Anon
Oh gosh that must have been so scary!! Glad he pulled through.
Anon
thank you for sharing more details. as a parent to two unvaxxed kids, it is a bit scary that you can’t figure out where it came from. like where he interacted with this person.
nuqotw
If your kid is anything like my kid, the answer is they lick random cr*p and get everything. Your situation sucks and I’m sorry.
hair
Well, this is perfect!! The vaccines worked perfectly, and now your own immune system will produce even more antibodies to protect you in the future. The best situation to be in is to be fully immunized and to have had COVID (ideally a mild case like yours). Then you are superprotected in the future.
Good luck with your recovery.
anonymous
THIS is why we should still be in lockdown! It’s unconscionable that we’re just expected to somehow “live with” an ongoing pandemic that has ravaged the country. Vaccines and boosters aren’t enough.
The entire country should go back into a lockdown for at least 90 days. Any person caught outside without a KN-95 and possibly goggles should face severe fines or jail time. If everyone (looking mostly at you white men) would just grow up and STAY AT HOME for 90 days, we could move past the Covid nightmare! Very disappointed that there’s literally no leadership or even anyone mentioning this.
Anon
At this point, it’s not a grave disease (generally), especially if you are vaccinated or are young/healthy. And many of us stayed home for over a year when schools shut down. At this point, I’m doing what I can easily to to protect the vulnerable without my kids losing their minds, but I’ve got to earn a living and am really done protecting people who refuse to get shots.
Cat
lol I was taking 12:11’s post as sarcasm…
Anonymous
Hugs to you! It happened to me in late August and was annoying and logistically difficult but ultimately just like having a bad cold. I recovered quickly with no lingering problems.
Anonymous
We are looking for a nice chess table for our living room/study. Where can I look to get something not junky? I can only find $250 tables from wayfair and like $7,000 vintage pieces.
In MA if it matters.
Anonymous
Craigslist or FB marketplace. Shouldn’t be hard to find a nice vintage one for a good price if you put in the time to look.
Anonymous
I checked both of those before posting and only saw re-sold cheap junk and ads for new cheap junk.
(junk = wobbly $200 wayfair tables— I’m not picky beyond wanting it to be real furniture).
I was thinking there must be estate sale type places online but don’t even know where to start looking.
Anonymous
I use maxsold for online estate sales. They’re great in my experience. One thing to note with Craigslist and Facebook market place is don’t use search terms that are too specific and try searching with typos or common misunderstandings. People rarely know what they’re selling and write poor quality ads.
Anon
https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/fuo/d/brookline-italian-inlaid-game-table/7403047593.html
Pompom
Charish, 1stDibs come to mind
Anonymous
Because I live under a rock, I only recently heard about the subreddit female dating strategies. I read through the articles they recommend and I’ve seen a couple of posts. Most of the advice seems to be pretty spot on, it’s about avoiding dangerous or otherwise undesirable men and building yourself up so you don’t fall for the first man who looks your way. Frankly I would’ve found a lot of this advice helpful in my late teens and 20s, I see so many of my mistakes echoed in the experiences of other women. I was surprised to learn that some people see this as a hate group. I’m not saying I agree with every single thing they say, and some of their wording could be a lot better (referring to women as “females” is ick) but I don’t find it anything like red pillers, which it’s been compared to. Am I drinking the Kool aid? Is there something sinister that I haven’t seen yet? I don’t think I’m particularly impressionable but I don’t want to be one of those news stories about someone who was unwittingly radicalized!
Anonymous
I’ve lurked through it too and don’t find it objectionable at all. In fact I think it’s great that they encourage women to be single rather than settle. The backlash really appears to be from people who whether by choice or force live according to vintage gender norms.
Anonymous
I think people call it a hate group because it’s threatening to men. I don’t read the forum myself, but am familiar with it from some of the recent articles about it. It sounds perfectly fine to me to encourage women not to put up with men who drag them down – I have a friend whose live-in boyfriend doesn’t work, doesn’t contribute to the household, and doesn’t really take care of himself, but she’s afraid to be alone and is insecure about ever finding anyone else. It’s kind of tempting to send her a link to FDS.
Anon
I don’t think it’s a well known thing that most people know about, so you weren’t living under a rock. It kind of seems like a bunch of prescriptive people with rules similar to The Rules? I’m sure it’s not all bad but there’s definitely something off about the lingo they use and how they call people low value and high value. I can’t quite put my finger on it but it seems like they’d be really weird people in real life?
Anon
I often see advice here that implicitly refers to men as high value and low value, without using that terminology. It’s a bit clinical but it’s not wrong. How often do we advise women to ditch a guy who lives with his parents and has a low paying job?
Anon
Or it’s like how a BF in a band is cool in high school and cool in college and then IRL as a grownup with a job and 401K and health insurance you never have a date for F or S b/c he is working and maybe the band is fun but not enough $ to live on, so his basement rental with 5 roommates gets old for you. It gets old for him, too, but 3-5 years later.
Anon
I haven’t read the subreddit but I agree completely. In a forum where you are giving very plain advice, it’s better to be plain than to dance around the issue. We all know that some men are not marriage material and some men have a huge number of women throwing themselves at them.
I’m a firm believer that some people (both men AND women) become more attractive as they age, and for others, their attraction wears off. The musician is a good example of the man who is less attractive as he ages. Women whose sole value is their looks or “attitude” have a bear of a time post-30, whereas a lot of very smart, very accomplished women cannot find a date to save their lives at 20 and are knee-deep in men at 37.
OP
The use of the word “value” is annoying because what they really mean is “quality.” It’s not JUST about his wallet. Using a term like “value” lends itself too easily to criticism and minimizing; like oh they’re just a bunch of gold diggers. Low value man doesn’t refer to a low salary, it’s a man who treats women poorly and doesn’t pull his weight.
Anon
Right? At some point, I don’t so much care about income as I do about credit scores. You can make what you make, but I want you to be on the lease with me and for me not to have to co-sign on your car loan.
PLB
But it is value: in the dating market. And the quantity is determined based on several factors including money, personality,attractiveness, etc., as you’ve noted.
Anon
They seem like they classify everyone as a high or low value individual and interact accordingly, so it comes off as very strange and robotic. Plus some of their rules are weird. Like is it really bad to ask a man out on a date and if he doesn’t ask you first he’s “low value”? Or you can’t pour yourself a glass of water on a date because it’s not classy? It’s just off, maybe it seems like some of them lack social skills? Many men are garbage, sure, but I don’t think calling that out is the issue.
Anon
Ok, so I clicked on some of their recommended links and there’s some terrible advice in there. For example, I’m not sure what they have against getting coffee or a drink with someone or why they think it’s “low value”, but definitely don’t act like this:
“After he suggests coffee/drinks/walk:
Innocently: “Oh, I thought we were going on a date… Did I misunderstand? I want to make sure we’re on the same page”.
Confused: “Hmm, I am not sure if I gave the impression that I am looking for a new friend, but I am actually looking for something more”.
Simple: “I am not sure if our definitions of dating match”.
Make him competitive: “Hmm, someone on here just asked me out for dinner that day, but you come across quite interesting as well… Should I choose you instead?” “
Anon
My husband previously classified non-dating activities as “fact-finding missions.” There should be room for that.
Anonymous
What on earth is wrong with coffee or drinks or a walk? Aren’t those usually recommended as low-pressure getting-to-know-you activities? I would be kind of weirded out if a guy I barely knew asked me out for dinner.
OP
Yeah that advice is weird. I feel like we talked about “first dates” here a while ago. What I had been calling a first date, a quick 1 hour drink or coffee with someone I matched with, is more accurately understood as a screening interview for a real date. Some of those articles recommend a phone call with the guy before you set up a first date, so maybe that takes the place of the coffee “date” idk. My personal feeling after online dating for 10+ years is to meet someone in person as quickly as possible and then go from there. Tons of people weed themselves out.
Anon
“What on earth is wrong with coffee or drinks or a walk? Aren’t those usually recommended as low-pressure getting-to-know-you activities?”
Yeah, I feel like that is weird advice and may be what’s leading to some of the “gold-digger” criticisms, if what’s implied is that someone is only worth going out with if they spend substantial money on you. Like many people here, when I was dating, getting locked into a full-on dinner date with someone I didn’t know very well (and who might turn out to be a nightmare) was not an attractive proposition. I was more than happy to meet someone for a low-key activity to figure out if there was chemistry. Especially after sitting through several dinner dates where I seriously contemplated crawling out of the bathroom window to get away from the person.
As a side note: I also always thought it was weird that some women would insist that if a guy didn’t pick them up for a date and drive them, it wasn’t a real date (I think that was in The Rules or something?) The last thing I want to do when I am meeting a stranger is get in their car with them and put them in control of my transportation. I’ll drive myself or otherwise arrange for my own transportation, thanks anyway.
Anon
I can see the gold digger stuff in some of their other advice about how they present themselves as “queens” – some of it is pretty shallow, like strutting around touching your not-costume jewelry necklace to get your date to ask about it so that he knows you like the finer things in life. I’m sure it’s well intentioned but it seems like an instruction manual written by the socially awkward. But you might as well give up on online dating anyway, as “high value men” aren’t on there.
Anon
Any group that encourages women to think for themselves, live independently, and take ownership of their lives is going to be attacked. That’s just life. It’s very telling that women on that board are called inc3ls when their entire goal is to avoid bad men, whereas male inc3ls use their online spaces to talk about ways to trick, deceive, and overpower women. “Here’s how to protect yourself from financial, emotional, and physical abuse” is being called equal to “Here’s how to financially, emotionally, and physically abuse”.
As a childfree woman, I experience the same type of judgment. A certain type of man HATES that I’m not financially, physically, or emotionally vulnerable in the ways that mothers are.
Anon
… how are mothers financially, physically, or emotionally vulnerable?!
Anon
Not Anon at 11:03. I’m a relatively new mother – my kid is almost 2. My husband is a very, very good man who is reliable, calm, loving, and responsible. I’m an athletic attorney.
Motherhood walloped me. I never felt so physically vulnerable in my entire life as when I was pregnant, and postpartum wasn’t that much of an improvement. I am the type who kept in shape while pregnant – everything from kettlebells to half marathons – and got right back into it even before my doctor gave me the all-clear. It’s hard to explain how physically vulnerable you are when you are carrying a child and recovering from that – I had this awareness that I’ve never had in my adult life that I couldn’t outrun an attacker and couldn’t defend myself and my kid.
Financially and emotionally, I’m tied to my kid. I have fewer options for moving for a good job, or even taking a long commute, both of which I happily did before giving birth. Emotionally, I worry about kiddo a lot, especially since I have an abusive family of origin who I do my best to no longer speak to. Financially, my salary is now a lot more important; it’s no longer an option to do what I’ve done before, which is to quit and sue a #metoo manager.
Anonymous
Because if a woman who has children with a partner is considering leaving her partner, she has to consider whether she can in good conscience let that person have solo parenting time with the kids (probably not–if you can’t live with him, why on earth would you trust him alone with your kids?), whether she will have to pay child support, etc. Childless women don’t have to factor those things in. Duh.
Anon
That’s not how divorce and custody arrangements work, though. People get divorced all the time and successfully co-parent.
Anonymous
That is exactly how divorce and custody work. There is generally a 50/50 presumption on parenting time, and there is a calculator for child support depending on parents’ incomes and parenting time. If you leave your partner, you are going to have to let them have alone time with the kids.
Anonymous
I think that’s exactly what she’s saying – If you think your partner is dangerous then you might think it’s better for you to stay in a bad situation rather than your kid being in that situation alone. And no it’s not easy to prove that the man is dangerous.
Anon
You’re being ridiculous. People divorce because they fight about money, gardening, or household chores; fall out of love and can’t stand the sight of each other; or their upbringings and expectations are just too different. None of that renders anyone unable to care for a child.
You’re also being incredibly sexist by assuming that mothers are inherently able to take care of their children but most fathers are not. That’s wrong on a lot of levels.
Anonymous
+1 My husband of 6 years had a very bad mental health reaction to covid-restrictions and has basically become an anti-vaxxer covid denier. I’m hoping he rejoins the real world soon but there are no guarantees. I spoke with an attorney and the absolute best case scenario is for me to get 70% custody of our 3 yo. God knows what would happen the other 30% of the time.
PLB
Anon @ 12:47 but I do think married mothers who want to leave are vulnerable in the way that they can’t just get up and leave if they want to. There are many considerations, not least of which what is best for the child. TLDR: the vulnerability is putting your kid’s needs before your own.
Anon
12:47 congratulations on living in a bubble.
Anon
Anon at 1:26, what bubble? My parents have divorced quite a few times and they both kind of sucked as parents. I’m not here for “We fight about money and therefore, I’m going to pretend that my soon-to-be-ex is going to feed the kid meth for breakfast.” The suckage comes when parents spend their time blaming the other for being a horrible person, rather than, I dunno, just stay in their own damn lane and focus on being a reasonable parent.
Anon
Awesome. So you know of one divorce. I now know of at least three divorces in my upper middle class set that involved abuse on the part of the ex husband, and at least two that involved serious drug issues, also on the part of the husband. And those are just the ones where I’m close enough to the ex wife that she confided in me.
No Problem
I haven’t read the subreddit or their recommended articles, but is it possible that the people calling it a hate group are exactly the types of dangerous or undesirable men they warn against? In other words, incels who are upset at being called out as incels? “Females” is a big clue here, since that’s incel talk. My bet is that the Venn diagram between complainers and incels has near complete overlap.
Anon
I hadn’t heard of the subreddit before today and so I went and read some of the content before forming an opinion.
A lot of the dating advice is great and very similar to what we have discussed here. Put a high value on yourself; don’t put up with nonsense and guys stringing you along; some men are losers and you can’t fix that; if the answer isn’t “hell yes” then it’s a no; don’t let bums waste your time, interested men pursue, etc. etc. I have said here for years that women should not stop dating until a man they want makes an explicit commitment that the man then holds to, and there are posts discussing that. All that is fine.
However, I understand some of the criticism because there’s some misandrist/All Men Are Bastards content on there that is overblown and frankly pretty melodramatic. Men want to control women reproductively; women aren’t safe from men anywhere, etc. I think our resident misandrist here has been posting over there; some of the content looks the same. If people want the same basic dating advice without the misandry, G.L. Lambert has written two books: Solving Single and Men Don’t Love Women Like You with the same messages around female empowerment and not tolerating bums. The books have been out longer than the sub has been around and if I had to guess, there’s a direct connection between the sub’s content and the content in the books (and on the author’s website).
Booster?
What are people’s thoughts on boosters for those not technically eligible. On one hand, I live with an unvaccinated preschooler and my partner travels for work. I’m sure the vaccine I got 6 months ago will keep me from dying but I don’t want to get sick either! On the other hand, I don’t meet the criteria and don’t want to prevent others from getting a shot. Also, I suspect better vaccines are going to come on line this year and it might be sensible to wait a few months for them. I keep waffling on this and was hoping to hear what others are thinking.
Cat
appointments abound. Go get one. Pfizer is seeking an “all adults” approval now anyway.
Anon
Interesting that you think so. I tried to make a booster appointment (and I am eligible) on Saturday and the soonest I was offered in my area was in December. I have a business meeting in a heavily red area next week about 200 miles away and was able to get an appointment, but not so easy locally.
Anonymous
Are you sure you don’t meet any of the criteria? Virtually every adult does.
Anon
My husband got rejected at Walmart last week, even though I’m 38 weeks pregnant (and thus arguably high-risk). Luckily they just expanded eligibility in my state since our outbreak is so bad.
Anonymous
Just go get one
anon
I’ve been wondering the same, though I think my state is letting anyone get boosters who wants one. I had asymptomatic covid early in the year, got fully vaxxed in April, and now am wondering whether to get a booster or not. I guess it couldn’t hurt?
I definitely don’t think you’d be preventing anyone from getting a shot. They’re plentiful at this point, and anyone not vaccinated is doing so intentionally.
AIMS
I mean you should ask your doctor but by all current data actual covid + one full vaccine dose in an otherwise low risk person = no booster needed.
anon
That was my line of thinking, too, and I am indeed healthy and low risk – but I have a child too young to be vaxxed. That’s the only reason I was considering it. It’s possible he got covid when I did, though, so who knows. All a guessing game at this point.
Anon
Just go get a shot.
Anon
Just posted above, but my DH got rejected at Walmart when he tried! It isn’t that easy in every geography, unfortunately.
Booster?
So, I was rejected by the online screening at Walgreens (Chicago-area). I would be given a booster if I lied and say I’m immunocompromised. I thought that was how everyone was getting booster shots, frankly.
Anonymous
immunocompromised folks are getting THIRD SHOTS. overweight + depressed people are getting BOOSTERS. make sure you get the terms right when you’re clicking.
Cat
You don’t have to be immunocompromised. Pretty much everyone working in a public-facing capacity was approved to get one.
Anon
No, everyone who works in a high risk setting (basically anyone who works in person) or has a health condition is eligible. 70% of US adults qualify based on BMI alone. Other common health issues like asthma and depression also qualify, plus anyone who has exposure through work. The immunocompromised are eligible for a third dose and then a booster after that third dose, which is a different thing. We are not immunocompromised and got our booster shots at Walgreens.
Anon
Just lie, who cares.
Anon
Our pediatrician told us we should get boosters to protect our 4 year old who is still ineligible for vaccines. We did.
Anon
Oh and to your point about “better vaccines” coming soon, that’s not true. The companies are now focusing on developing treatments. There are no new vaccines in advanced stages of trials (there are booster trials and trials for kids under 5, but it’s the same vaccine as before, not even updated against Delta).
Anon
I think that everyone should get a booster after 6 months. Winter is coming. People will be inside more. I have one kid who got vaccinated, but there is no plan for her age group to get a booster. I have another kid who has just had shot 1, so as kid 1’s immunity wanes, kid 2 will on-board some immunity. Lots of kids didn’t get vaccinated at all (or are still too young), so we need more adult immunity now that the 12-whatever age group kids are 6 months-ish from their second shot.
Anonymous
I thought the mRNA vaccines were still good for up to 8 months? I would probably wait a week or three and get it before the end of the year rush, I’m sure people will get it before traveling.
Anon
No, immunity starts waning after 5-6 months particularly with Pfizer.
Anon
Read an article this morning that included:
Overall, across the eight-month study period, vaccine protection against COVID-19 infection dropped from 87.9 percent to 48.1 percent. The biggest decline in VE-I was seen in the J&J vaccine, dropping from 86.4 percent to 13.1 percent. Pfizer’s protection against infection dropped from 86.9 percent to 43.3 percent, while Moderna performed best of the three going from 89.2 percent to 58 percent.
Cat
This is why I’m guessing we’ll be getting annual booster shots for Covid just like the flu shots. Those aren’t even particularly effective compared to the Covid vaccines but are good enough…
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/effectiveness-studies.htm
Anon
I really hope they can make a combined annual flu/covid shot. It would make life so much simpler each year. I have been successful in dragging DH to an annual flu shot — not sure I will be successful in dragging him to two annual shots!
Anonymous
It’s not as if immunity stays very high and then suddenly drops at exactly 6 months or 8 months. It wanes over time. You are more protected at 6 months than at 8 months, but you still have some protection at 8 months.
Anon
Good grief get it. I got it the second it was available and don’t give AF about the supposed qualified rules. There’s tons of supply and too many antivaxxers to make me give a hoot about waiting.
Anon
I know there’s been comments about how difficult it’s been to work in the public sector recently.
My agency hasn’t gotten a COLA as long as I’ve been here (3 yrs) and there’s no possibility for merit based reasons. The only time we can get a real raise is via promotion (which we have to apply and interview for, like external candidates). We aren’t planning on receiving COLAs this year either, which is especially tough given the new inflation numbers.
I love my job, my coworkers, and the mission but man! I wish I was paid more!
Anonymous
Ugh, I hear you. My partner got a small COLA increase this year, but it is WAY below inflation. So frustrating.
Pompom
I could have written this myself. Solidarity, friend.
My entire team is also suffering from terrible salary inequities that, despite almost 2 years of me zealously advocating to get fixed, are not going away any time soon (being a middle manager sucks). I’m getting them as much non-comp “extra” stuff (self-chosen, work-funded PD, for example) as I can, but it sucks so hard.
Anon
I hear you. I work in public higher ed. Our “merit” raises are 2-3% at best, so our salaries regularly decrease relative to inflation.
I basically do the bare minimum I can do without getting fired. If my employer wanted more effort they could pay me enough so my salary doesn’t decrease each year.
anon
Same here. It’s not that I’m not making enough money, but as I get older, I’m finding it demoralizing that we hardly even get COL adjustments anymore, let alone merit-based raises. If I stay, it’ll be for all the vacation time I’ve banked. (That I find hard to use because we’re so leanly staffed.)
anon
Amen. You’re spot on about only getting substantial raises when getting new jobs… which is why I shamelessly job hop. I’ve been with my govt entity for almost 15 years and have had 6-7 jobs at different agencies? Hard to keep track, but I’ve tripled my salary with all the moves.
Anonymous
Commiseration. I work in public interest law. We got a 1.3% COLA in Dec. 2019. I’ve been here almost 3 years, and raises or bonuses aren’t a thing. It is beyond frustrating. An extra $1K would really be a force multiplier.
BelleRose
Hopefully fun topic: What are your Thanksgiving must-haves? I always have gone traditional in the past, and am wondering if I should switch it up for Friendsgiving this year.
My normal menu: turkey, gravy, stuffing, green bean casserole, twice-baked potatoes, rolls, cranberry sauce, apple pie, pumpkin pie, ice cream
Cat
Sub in perfectly-roasted Brussels for the green beans, and spice up the cranberry sauce with a variation (I’m partial to versions that include citrus).
anon
Corn casserole! Google jiffy corn casserole for recipes – it’s basically a soft spoonable cornbread. I add a tbsp of sugar to mine so it’s a touch sweet.
anon
So easy, and so delicious. This is one of our staples, too.
anon
Sweet potato casserole is a must.
Anon
I love a root vegetable mix. Turnips, parsnips, carrots, take or leave potato in this. Honestly your menu sounds excellent though. Maybe a fall salad? Or focus on a couple of nice nibbles pre dinner with drinks?
Anon
We have so many traditional dishes no one is willing to give up that we can’t actually add anything new.
Dry salt-brined turkey
Homemade turkey stock for gravy and stuffing
Pumpkin pies made from roasted sugar pie pumpkins
Apple pie
This bizarre jello thing my mom always made
Mashed potatoes and gravy
Stuffing with twice the onions and celery recommended
Sweet potato casserole with mini marshmallows
Green bean casserole – fancy if I’m making it, right off the fried onion can if my husband is making it
It’s so much food, it’s so many leftovers I can’t in good conscience add another thing
Anonymous
I like to have a cold salad to break up the richness of the other dishes. I am partial to the Thanksgiving Slaw from the Kitchn.
My one traditional must-have is the Parker House rolls from an old Fannie Famer cookbook, reprinted in Bon Appetit a decade or so ago.
Anon
Green bean casserole is my absolute favorite, I’d be happy with any Thanksgiving dinner if it has that!
Senior Attorney
My son has been a vegetarian for a while so we’re all about the starchy sides: homemade dinner rolls, mac n cheese, mashed potatoes. And homemade Chex Mix to ruin our appetites before dinner.
NYNY
LOVE homemade chex mix!!
NYNY
I have the short version for small Thanksgiving and the long version for larger gatherings:
Must-have:
Roast turkey with lemon-sage butter stuffed under the skin
Green chile cornbread stuffing
Mashed potatoes & gravy
Orange ginger cranberry sauce
Roasted brussels sprouts
Bourbon pecan pie
Optional:
My grandma’s crescent rolls
Pearl onion gratin (known in the family as “cheesy onions”)
Sweet potatoes
Mac & cheese
pugsnbourbon
We do an all-sides Thanksgiving for just the two of us – rolls, mashed potatoes, fancy green-bean casserole, and stuffing from a bag. I also make cranberry sauce and tell myself I’ll put it on yogurt, but I end up eating it straight.
Vicky Austin
YES to cranberry sauce on yogurt.
Anon
Vegetarian, so while DH does turkey, I do vegetarian “turkey.”
Vegetarian gravy (mushrooms and cranberry, quite delicious)
Stuffing
Sweet potatoes
Green beans almondine
Roasted carrots
Rolls
Cheese board beforehand
Anon
Can you part with the recipe for your vegetarian gravy? I am a long-time vegetarian. Love mushrooms and cranberries and am intrigued.