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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
This linen-blend blouse comes in a bunch of solids and prints and looks like it would be a summer workhorse top.
I like the slightly loose fit for doing a half tuck into some slim-fitting pants for a casual work outfit, or for wearing loose over skinny jeans or leggings for the weekend.
The top is $24 at Old Navy and available in sizes XS–XXL. It also comes in petite and tall sizes, although not in the black and white print, and in plus sizes. Right now you can get 25% off your order, which brings this down to $18. Loose Linen-Blend Jersey Henley Top
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Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
NY CPA
PSA for anyone looking for plain/casual t-shirts for WFH, I ordered some of the LLBean Pima cotton tees and they just arrived and are exactly what I was looking for! 100% cotton but so soft they almost feel like a modal blend. Totally opaque. Long enough that they almost cover my behind so I dont look indecent in leggings and dont have to constantly tug down my shirt. I can tell I’ll be living in these all summer! Thinking of ordering in more colors. They have v-neck, crew neck, sleeveless, and elbow-length-scoop-neck versions, and come in standard, petite, and plus sizes. Totally t-shirt holy grail!
kk
oh in a similar vein today, I was going to recommend the coolibar tees on Amazon. They are opaque, long, and upf 50+ I bought the heydey longsleeve top in stripes- the sizing is more like LL bean than J Crew (I might size down) and it’s cool, comfy, and cute for general bopping around the neighborhood right now.
Anon
I am not sure that I understand upf clothing. As someone who can burn in 15 minutes or at 6PM in the evening, I have never, ever got a sunburn through clothing. Is there damage that sun does through clothing that doesn’t any produce symptoms?
kk
I haven’t burned through clothing- but I do have visible sports bra strap lines on my shoulders from the running, usually wearing a lululemon runswiftly long sleeve tee shirt. I think it’s the cumulative exposure through clothes- even if it’s not a single experience that causes the results. As I’m outside frequently, I’m happy to add the additional protection.
Anon
Interesting observation! I am such a shade seeker that it’s possible I’ve just avoided noticing this so far. I am intrigued and may order.
Anon
Depending on the item, so UPF clothing is designed to be cooler/lighter while retaining protection. For example, my linen shirts are light enough that I like them on hot days, but I can still get increased freckling through them if I wear them all day. Not so with UPF fabric, though it feels just as light/cool. So, yes, the protection is slightly increased.
Anonymous
I’ve burned through clothing before, typically when on the water or at high altitudes.
AIMS
Not a tshirt but I just ordered a bunch of work dresses from the Worth Collection. They’re closing up apparently and everything is $20-50 for stuff that is usually $300 and up. Random stuff left and some quite matronly but some is very cute and the quality is usually amazing. You can google the name to find their s*i*t*e (which is admittedly terrible but I love a good bargain so sifted thru).
Anonymous
Thanks! I have some Worth that has worn really well.
Anon
Thanks! What is the Worth sizing like please, say, relative to J Crew (which seems to run a little big)?
AIMS
I think similar? I ordered the same size I get in JCrew and most of the stuff worked except one dress was a little too clingy to wear without spandex (it was a knit fabric so I guess I should have known). A lot of the dresses now available are listed as running one size large. There was one black dress I really liked that I ordered in two sizes which I normally wouldn’t do with a final sale item but at $20 each I figured I could take the chance and it’s so classic I could find a friend to give it a home.
Anonymous
I have the crew neck, but it is too short for me to pair with leggings. About 25” long. Do you have a different style? I’m interested to know if some run longer.
NY CPA
Not sure how long they are, but when I just went to check (they dont have it listed), there was a recent comment from someone who said they liked the “new slightly shaped fit and slightly longer length”, so maybe give it another try? I wouldnt say it is tunic length, but it covers most of my butt (just about all if I pull it down).
NY CPA
This is the specific shirt: https://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/116153?page=women-s-pima-cotton-shaped-v-neck-short-sleeve&bc=12-27-607-504209&feat=504209-GN3&csp=f&pos=10
Anon
How’s the fit? Semi-fitted is most flattering on me and I’ve found it hard to find T-shirts that fit the bill – they’re often either very boxy or clinging to every bump.
Anon
You might like Boden’s t-shirts then. Definitely not boxy, but not skin tight either.
NY CPA
Semi fitted is a good description of these I think. I ordered TTS. Typically things from LLBean fit big (I have to send back a sweater bc it was too big and boxy), but the t shirt fits well and looks kind of fitted but not clingy.
LifeScienceMBA
I love these tees, too, and own about 6 of the elbow-length ones in different colors. I just wish they would bring the boatneck back, because it’s most flattering on my body.
Anon
Any thoughts on returning to an office that is not doing much to prevent corona?
My office in NYC is now open for “volunteers” to come in. We are at about 80-90% capacity. I am not yet volunteering because I feel it’s unlikely I will get laid off for not coming in – others are going in to avoid that fate for the most part. It’s not explicit but the rumor is the CEO has a list of folks who are not in yet and they are first to be fired.
The office is open, desks not cubes, and social distancing is not possible given the space between desks. Masks are being provided but there is pressure not to wear them, so 5-10 people (of 60-70) are wearing masks. The office catered a lunch buffet this week.
I feel like I’m living in a crazy town. I know I can only control myself but I feel like eventually I will need to go in, wear a mask myself and wash my hands every hour. Is anyone else in a situation like this?
Anon
I don’t have any advice, but just want to say, this sucks and I’m sorry. If I were in that situation, I would continue to WFH and also start looking for a new job – there are still people hiring out there. In an open-plan space with no masks, everyone being inside all day, and people sharing food – if anyone gets the virus it will spread fast. I am not one of the folks who is terrified of getting Covid but I also don’t feel like throwing caution to the wind is the right move either. People at your work might as well go around licking the door handles. You know?
I’m sorry. I think you do what you can to protect yourself and let the chips fall. Getting fired because you refused to go to work in a petri dish in the middle of a pandemic isn’t the worst thing that can happen to you.
Anonymous
If lay off isn’t an issue for you because you don’t think you will be and/or it won’t be a big deal to your resume or bank account, then do NOT go in. I mean you’re in NYC — how is any of this safe. Depending on whether you want to stay at this job or not, I’d even think about “reporting” this employer. IDK where exactly but Cuomo says they get calls re employers that aren’t following the guidelines. Don’t think any office should be at 80-90% capacity with an open office with 8% of people wearing a mask and rest eating a shared buffet?? You didn’t say you were essential and I can’t imagine you are since this doesn’t sound like a health system, retail store etc. but a regular office.
Anne
I think you should report this anonymously. It’s a public safety concern.
Anon
My office is reopening for volunteers in direct violation of our city’s regulations. Whoever volunteers will be the boss’s darling. I’m debating calling the non-emergency reporting number because of the multiple layers of illegality involved (and utter lack of caution – too much to type here). However, violating the order is a misdemeanor crime and I don’t want to put anyone’s job at risk. I’m not sure if my boss would be given a warning the first time or not.
Anonymous
If you can call without having to give your name and maybe from a phone that isn’t a phone number your work has for you, I’d do it. Sorry I don’t take threatening other people’s job lightly but when the person whose job could be threatened is threatening others’ health, yeah I don’t care if they lose their job or even fear losing their job.
Anon
What?! Report your boss to the authorities just like you would for any other crime. You wouldn’t ignore your boss embezzling so why are you ignoring the huge public safety hazard.
Anon
Because I don’t want anyone to lose their job.
Anon
But how is your boss’s employment status more important than public health, people potentially dying?
Anonymous
Losing their lives or sickening their loved ones is worse. No one has to lose their lives or jobs if your company would choose to follow regulations. Hopefully getting warned or potentially fined would motivate them to do that.
Anon
Oh no, you misunderstood me. Idgaf if SHE loses her job – I’m worried that if our office becomes guilty of a “crime” (not just a civil violation) that the employees who wanted nothing to do with the reopening could be at risk. We rely on federal contracts for our work.
Anon
Her boss’s employment status is not the only employment status threatened- it’s those that will lose their job if they aren’t able to work (presumably the ones that physically need to be in the office).
Anon for this
In my state, you can report to the authorities (the AG’s office here) and your identity will not be disclosed to the company. Also, at least here, it seems the authorities are not interested in punishment for violators of the re-opening guidelines or stay-at-home orders – the goal is to get actual compliance so that workers are safe AND businesses can reopen.
But they won’t be able to help folks stay safe unless people call – so call!
Anonymous
How is that even possible in Phase 1? I thought offices were Phase 2. I live in NYC and this does sound completely nuts and possibly illegal. I can’t believe people aren’t wearing masks either – they are so ubiquitous in my neighborhood.
NYCer
This was my reaction too! OP, what industry do you work in out of curiosity?
Hildy
+1 New York is in Phase 1 and offices aren’t allowed to open until Phase 2. I’m also pretty sure NY requires Phase 2 office to attest to a safety plan that includes things like social distancing/mask wearing…
Anon
Op here – we are essentially the back office to an “essential business” (this is a stretch imo) so the interpretation is that we are exempt. Note – I can do my job 100% from home.
Anon
I have concerns about my office’s plan to reopen. We meet with a steady stream of unique visitors. These meetings have been taking place on video chat, and it’s been going just fine. But there’s talk of switching to socially distanced, masked in-person meetings. I would really rather stick with video chat if in-person meetings are going to require shouting through masks.
Anon
It’s so dumb because no “real” business operates like this. The truly successful ones know enough to protect their employees. And anyone who does go in is on an an-needed basis, not to cater to management. If anything encouraging people in the office and playing favorites tanks morale and kills any existing confidence in leadership, regardless of industry. It’s one thing to maintain operations and the relative health of the business, another to put people at risk unnecessarily in the short term. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this right now on top of any other stress.
Anon
I’m not OP, but my boss is completely tanking morale over this too. I raised some basic, legitimate safety concerns (like “hey, you mentioned that we won’t have to wear masks, but the law requires masks to be worn at all times”) in a message to my supervisor and our “HR” (a woman who does some half-assed HR on top of her other duties) and they were totally brushed off. I heard through the grapevine that they were “annoyed I brought it up” and didn’t like my “tone.” I’m talking to a lot of people in the office on the side about this and a lot are really pissed and looking for other jobs.
Anon
I’m not sure how my boss doesn’t understand this. Whatever she believes about the virus, its risks, etc., the effect of these announcements on morale has been dire.
Anon
Eww. I’m sorry. We have it similarly in that leadership has been politicizing it the entire time – “don’t live in fear” (?!), etc., while people have gotten sick. Unfathomable. I’m sorry you’re going through this.
anon
Sounds like the CEO is not someone I would want to work under.
Happy Friday
My office is headed in the opposite direction. We are starting to return to work on Monday in very small numbers, mostly on a volunteer basis. The org has a “face coverings” policy that says you have to wear them anywhere you cannot socially distance by 6 ft, such as hallways, restrooms, and public areas of the building. Apparently staff can get a verbal warning, then a written warning, and additional failures to comply could lead to additional action. Should be a fascinating anthropological study in my politically-diverse environment.
Anonymous
Going to be a great way to fire people by enforcing the mask rules :)
blessed
I feel you and truly sympathize with how stressful and frustrating it must be. I too, had been WFH and recently returned to the office (after being pressured to do so the entire time) where I am the only one wearing a mask out of a staff of 10 people. My office has been the same way – acting as if they are living in a parallel universe where it’s business as usual (pre-COVID-19). There’s no social distancing because everyone’s having in person meetings in their small offices without masks, sometimes no more than a foot apart. They even held a staff lunch where everyone sat around the conference table passing around chips/fries. It makes me question whether I am paranoid for my version of reality where we are living in the midst of a global pandemic and I’m trying to mitigate the risk of transmission as much as possible.
I was extremely disappointed and outraged by the way our employer handled the government’s “stay home, work safe” orders by not allowing any of its employees to WFH, despite the capability to do so. They cite that because they are an “essential service,” everyone needs to be in the office. We have employees that have preexisting conditions, live with elderly parents, and working parents whose kids are without childcare or school. Hypocritically, the bosses just don’t trust their employees to get any work done if they allow them to WFH, yet our bosses WFH whenever they felt like it and manage to trust that the employees at the office get the work done. It’s really undermined my confidence in their leadership and made me seriously question whether I should continue to work for an employer who risks the safety and health of its employees for the sake of profit.
I felt extreme dread and anxiety returning to the office. I had to assume everyone was asymptomatic and thought through how I could best protect myself (little things like don’t touch the printer/scanner touch screens with my hands, remember to wash/sanitize hands after touching door handles, after using the microwave, opening the refrigerator, wearing a mask any time I set foot out of my office or someone walked into mine, etc.). I did bring up the issue to my employer after trying to keep quiet since I hate conflict. Initially, they said they were doing all they could and perhaps if I’m so uncomfortable about working there, they should start looking for my replacement. I felt like I just jeopardized my job simply by speaking up. However, the next day they held a staff meeting to go over their safety guidelines so that everyone would feel comfortable working in the office. It was encouraging to see them attempt to make the workplace safer but there’s a limit to how far they will go (no WFH, no requirement for wearing masks, no turning away walk-in customers). It’s still hard for me to reconcile the fact that I’m taking an unnecessary risk just going into the office when all my work can be done remotely. Maybe I’m hypersensitive because the risks are unknown and I’m just projecting my worst-case fears. Maybe they’re right and it’s all NBD. Who’s to say?
Cb
What’s making your life a little bit easier and better these days?
The as seen on TV laundry lasso has basically solved the problem of my stinky front-loading washer.
I hung a hook next to my desk for my headphones and put up one of those Umbro invisible shelves for my planner and glasses and never lose them now.
On a bigger level of expenditure, I got a bike basket system for my bike and a Bike Nook to hold a bike upright in our hallway and it saves so much space and means we’re more likely to go for a quick spin versus when they are locked up in our building’s shed.
cat socks
I think I need a laundry lasso! I have a top load washer but I hate having to bend down and reach far back into the dryer to grab clothes.
I like to light candles at home and I recently bought a USB lighter. So much better than those refillable lighters or matches.
Also a wireless headset. We use Teams at work (no video, thankfully) so I like to get up and walk around during meetings. I love not being tied to the PC. I got the Cowin E7 from Amazon.
Cb
Also for those with kids or interrupting partners, my husband has a light that connects with his Teams calendar and turns red when he’s on a call. My toddler will now look at it and say ‘Daddy’s on a call!’ and be quiet or go play somewhere else.
Anonymous
This sounds really helpful – which light is it? Does it clip on to his laptop or computer?
Cb
It plugs into the USB, it’s called a ‘busy light’.
Lana Del Raygun
I got a proper clothesline pulley system!
PolyD
My coat closet, next to my front door, has folding metal doors (I rent, and the building is nice, if a little old). I got some magnetic hooks to put on the door and I hang my masks on them, which helps me to remember to grab them on my way out.
I also got a thing that fits over my bedroom closet door and has 6 hooks on it that I use to hang up the shorts I use to do yoga and any other clothing items that are not completely clean, but that I’d wear again before washing – sitting inside all day, I can wear the same shirt for a couple of days, so it goes on the hook.
Senior Attorney
Hubby managed to get his hands on an external camera and tripod for Zoom meetings before they all disappeared, and it’s very helpful especially since we are often on the same Zoom call and it’s nice to not have to scrunch in front of the same phone or laptop.
Also having enough masks to toss them in the laundry basket every day has been good.
Finally, one of the places from which we’ve been getting a lot of takeout uses these really great reusable containers that are dishwasher safe and the perfect size for taking leftovers to the office for lunch, and I have stockpiled a nice collection and I love them.
Anonymous
We have too! Nice bonus for eating a lot of Indonesian food.
Anonymous
I bought a 10 pack of matching Hanes white tshirts and a bunch of cheapo matching sweatpants and it is the single best thing I have done during the pandemic. Easy uniform, don’t have to think. Comfortable. Also functions as pajamas.
Marie
Nespresso machine for my afternoon jolt makes my afternoon during endless days of WFH less painful. I see they are 25% off today if anyone is in the market.
Anon
I don’t know. I feel like I’ve made everything harder on myself. I started my own business. I cook every meal. I’m making my own bread and maintaining a starter. I’ve planted vegetables and herbs everywhere I physically can and now I’m nurturing and maintaining them (don’t get me started on string training tomatoes.)
I actually sometimes wonder whether I’m capable of making anything easier on myself. I think this is not just me but a general woman #perfectionism thing.
Anon
Thanks for the lighter rec! Just bought one.
We put up one of those cheapo Coleman canopies in our back yard. It keeps our chairs from getting wet when it’s rainy and provides shade when it’s sunny. Preschooler loves to have picnics on the lawn now. Our much more expensive umbrella is not nearly as useful.
Based on the recs here, we bought a robot vaccuum. It’s keeping the house SO much cleaner.
I’ve been buying large containers of iced tea. I used to make my own but it takes so long without an ice dispenser. Totally worth it.
Anon
What does a total compensation package look like for a director level position at a Fortune 50 company? I’ve spent my whole career in consulting and have an opportunity to move into a director position at a client, but am not very well versed in things like stock compensation, stock options etc. What should I be thinking about when evaluating an offer? I have a good idea of the base salary (around $200), but not sure what else to expect.
Anon
What area are you in (legal, compliance, finance, IT, etc?) What industry are you in? Where are you located? These things will make a difference.
OP
Finance area, in the Midwest, manufacturing industry.
Anonymous
I have experience with two compensations packages, at a Fortune 50 and an FTSE 10.
The first can be a little less money, but I prefer the predictability. There is a short and long term bonus. There is a short term bonus, which is a percent of your salary and paid in cash. This should be at least 25%, and the payout can be 90% to 110% depending on the company performance and your performance. The long term bonus is stock, and it’s the same amount for everyone at that level. So, a director could be anywhere from $35,000 – $75,000 depending on how many director levels there are. You are given stock grants, which you vest in after three years. The company puts the grants in a Vanguard or Fidelity account, and when you vest, you can sell.
The second is a short term bonus that is 0 – 150% of your salary, depending on your and the company performance. This is paid to you in cash. The long term bonus is also 0 – 150% of your salary, paid in stock grants that you vest in after three years. You have more earning potential with this package, but it also included a fixed pool of money that was not enough to pay everyone a bonus at par, and a rating system of 1 – 5. The intent was to reward high performers by giving them most of the money, and average performers not very much. Managers would do all types of contortions to try to reward everyone somewhat. I did OK with this as I was always rated a 4 (no one ever earned a 5 for obvious reasons), and I started there earlier when the process was less draconian. I left this job about two years ago, and my understanding is the company has increased base salaries and significantly decreased the long term bonus because new hires wanted cash in hand, not long term stock plans.
My other advice is to really understand not only how much money is in the bonus, but how they are awarded. If it’s a scenario of ‘it’s not enough for me to win, but someone else must also lose” to get the bonus, you need to accept the risk that you might, even with great performance, be rated a 2 or 3 for all types of strange reasons.
You should also get three weeks vacation, health care where you pay part, and a 401K match.
Anon
+1 to everything. My prior employer, F50, had this forced ranking system that affected both short term and long term incentives, and it always came down to who had gone “above and beyond.”
Just doing a great job at your job was never enough. And making a case for above and beyond really came down to the negotiating skills of the manager, far less than the actual contributions of the employer being rated.
I was a VP and my base was less than half of my total comp. In a good year I had the potential to earn 500k but of course it was never a good year.
In the case of this company, the short term incentives were paid annually and were based on your ranking relative to peers (see above and beyond) and the long term incentives were based solely on company performance. The company was never doing all that well vs goals so the long term was usually a fraction of what was promised. And the long term stuff was like golden handcuffs. You lost a bunch of it if you left before it was vested, which I did.
I knew many people who were promoted and got all of their comp increase in long term (so no increase in salary or annual bonus) and then the long term never paid out.
Anonymous
Sort of depends what kind of role and what director means. Director of consulting? Finance? Product? Marketing? IT?
Anecdata: I was a director of product management at what is now a F100 by acquisition. I made $140 plus a 20% bonus. No options. When I was promoted to VP I made $180 with a 30% bonus plus another 10% in options.
My husband is a VP of ops at a smaller company- he has applied for F100 roles at the Sr director level. Packages are $180-220ish plus 15-30% bonus. So a total comp of $250-275k. Right now he makes $200k with a 35k bonus and he had a chunk of options. The company sold last year and his options were converted to cash. It was $300k gross to us.
Anon
100% agree. Titles can be very variable. I’m a manager at a Fortune 500 company and make 160 plus 20% bonus. There are VPs in other divisions within our company who make 110 plus 10% bonus.
Anon
That’s true. There’s a difference between VP of a division and VP of the entire company.
A VP of the company is an officer of the company, which carries all kinds of responsibility beyond the immediate job.
A VP of a division or a product or a line or a region is usually an honorary title reflecting the person’s level within that particular segment of the company, but does not carry Officer level responsibility.
I say this as someone who had been both.
BB
Base + Bonus (should be 15% or higher) + stock options or restricted stock. It’s hard to value the stock part of course, but I’d expect something north of $100K of value if all of it vests (and the stock price stays steady). You can usually negotiate for more stock. Very difficult to negotiate for more base + bonus. Are you an ex-management consultant? If so, location won’t matter a ton in your base salary (maybe 10K here or there), and your $200K starting is pretty reasonable, but obviously you can try to push for more.
anonchicago
I’m a management consultant and have been passively job searching. Based on discussions I’ve had with a few F200s and search firms, I think $150-200 base + 15-25% bonus + equity TBD is the norm. In industry, much more of your comp is considered “at risk” vs guaranteed salary and bonus in consulting.
I’ve seen enough compensation data in my career to know that a lot of director-level roles at F500 make less than $200k, and anecdotally I know a handful of people who have left consulting and admitted they make less in industry but are much happier due to the predictability, hours, etc.
Anon
I’m Fortune 500, not Fortune 50, VP in legal, my comp package is:
170K salary
Annual bonus currently 30% (has always paid at 95%-105% and I’ve been at the company for a decade)
Annual stock grant (last year was 70K and has gone up every year, vests over 3 years)
OP
Very late responding here (consulting life!) but wanted to say thank you all so much – this was all beyond helpful!
Anon
Is there a book/film (fiction or non-fiction) about a woman/group of women hunting and punishing serial killers? I feel like there has been a lot of “Taken” like type of stories, but none with a female hero. If not, how about we start brainstorming one in this thread?
Ideally, she would have a combination of traits – she can track down and lure the killers with enjoyment and creativity like Vilanelle from “Killing Eve“ and Salander from “Girl with the Dragon Tattoo,” but she is also motivated by a noble cause like Katniss from “Hunger Games,” and she has the elegance and femininity of Adaline from “The Age of Adaline,” with a fabulous vintage wardrobe to boot. All the better if she turned out to be forever ageless like Adaline’s character too-her accumulation of wealth from being immortal, combined with her forever youthful appearance explain how she has the means and skills to do what she does. But it also means that she has to assume new identities/master new professions/learn new languages in different locales every ten years, and is either celibate or takes male lovers like a female version of James Bond/John Wayne.
She is part of an organized secret society of similar women. For long that group has silently hunted and eliminated famous serial killers in history who seemingly stopped and disappeared such as Jack the Ripper. Perhaps she was trained and discovered by them.
Feel free to add on/tweak!
Lily
I would read/watch this especially if the heroine were of average looks/weight/height but a ton of charisma and had a super hot love interest.
Cat
If by “super hot love interest” you mean a supportive partner who doesn’t complain that she’s “working too hard,” helps run the household without frequent reminders, and – rather than jumping to conclusions like “she must be cheating on me because her male sidekick isn’t a total frog” – would recognize that a work relationship with a man is nothing to even notice… then you’ve got me :)
Anon
Eh, this is just as bad IMO as the sitcom trope of the average squishy middle aged dude with the smoking hot SAHW. Why can’t media portray relationships with evenly matched partners?
Anon
Agree. Either looks matter a lot (in which case, you ought to be hot yourself) or they don’t.
Lily
No, it’s not just as bad, because, for sexist reasons, we don’t get to see this type of pairing very often, if ever.
Anon
This made me think of the Patricia Cornwall novels I was obsessed with in middle school
Anon
I’ve started writing this novel!
Anonymous
The Nadia Stafford series is sort of like this but less of an organised group and more one women.
I Stan Maas
Kendra Elliot’s Mercy Kilpatrick series sorta fits this bill. And, YA Sci-Fi books are my go-to for an amazing heroine that is usually killing someone. Not necessarily always everything you describe, but I flock to these books because (usually) young women are strong and brave and their own heroes (and sure, romance). I’m a super fan of Sarah J. Maas’s books right now. “Throne of Glass,” is the first book of the series by the same name where a female assassin competes to be a King’s champion-Celaena remains an all-time favorite powerful female lead–and her personal targets aren’t necessarily serial killers but are bad people. Maas’s new book, “House of Earth and Blood,” also has a strong and lethal female lead.
cat socks
For YA dystopian, I like the Razorland Trilogy from Ann Aguirre – Enclave, Outpost, Horde.
I Stan Maas
Adding to my Goodreads list!
Vicky Austin
I loved the Court of Thorns and Roses series! Throne of Glass is in my TBR pile, but that pile is towering.
Anonymous
The Bletchley Circle, The Alice Network, Miss Fisher’s Mysteries.
anon
Not exactly what you are looking for, but Shelly Laurenston has a series called Call of Crows. It’s based on Viking mythology and the women are brought back to life after being killed by men . It’s a romance series. I’m not describing it well, but I enjoyed it.
Anon
Silence of the Lambs?
Panda Bear
Out by Natsuo Karino – a novel about a group of co-workers who help hide the murder of one of their abusive husbands. So not what you are describing, but kind of up that alley.
mascot
The Huntress is a great read based on true events (about the Nightwitches- a group of Russian female pilots that fought in WWII)
anon
Final Girl
Anonymous
I just started reading but – The Southern Book Club’s Guide to Slaying Vampires by Grady Hendrix!
no fashion but recs with lots of action!
Series with strong female vigilante leads – Dean Koontz Jane Hawk books; Jason Pinter Rachel Marin books
Series with groups of female vigilantes – various by T.R. Ragan (Lizzie Gardner; Faith McCann; Jessie Cole; Sawyer Brooks)
Standalone novel – female vigilante – The Chemist by Stephenie Meyer
Not quite a vigilante or a fashionista but David Baldacci’s Atlee Pine series is about a federal agent who is seeking to avenge her twin sister’s death.
Kat G
Naomi __, The Power
Jackaby series (regularly touted as “Buffy meets Sherlock” – haven’t read it yet
Kali Ma
Haruki Murakami’s 1Q84 has some of this going on within its plot, however you will be buckling in for a translated version of a literary novel.
afdsf adsdfa s
What time would you actually have to wake up if you wanted to get everything you wanted to do in the morning? I feel like I have a lot of energy/ideas for house chores in the morning, but wake up too close to work.
This is all silly, and I know I should just wake up earlier, but my ideal schedule would be:
7:15 start waking up
7:30 look through my phone
8:00 exercise
8:30 get ready
9:00 read a book and drink coffee
9:30 start work
Wow writing it out this actually seems a lot more managable than I thought. In reality its
8:00 wake up
9:00 get out of bed
9:15 convince myself I should get dressed
9:30 eat breakfast and set. up work
9:45 start work
I know I’m lucky, I don’t have kids, I shouldn’t be so lazy, yadda yadda yadda. This is all much better when I have somewhere I actually have to be at by a certain time. And for work the only real cutoff is the 10am morning meeting.
anon
I started reading a book after I wake up instead of looking through my phone. Or I read for 30 minutes and then look at my phone for 10. It makes me feel so much better about the day.
My ideal schedule is
6:30 start waking up
6:45-7:45 read book
7:45-8:15 yoga video
8:15-9:00 get ready
9:00 log in to work, drink coffee and eat breakfast while checking email and reading articles and, honestly, checking here
9:30 start billable work
I’m running way behind today.
cat socks
I wake up around 6:30 because that’s when my husband gets up for work since he still has to go to the office. But I would wake up anyway around that time to feed the cats. This gives me enough time to work out and shower before starting work. I have a daily call at 8:30.
I work with developers in India so even without that morning meeting, I usually have emails waiting for me when I log in. So I try to log in by 9-9:30 at the latest to respond to email.
It took me a month or so of WFH to finally settle into a routine, but now I really like getting that workout first thing in the morning. And I need to shower after working out so then I have more motivation to get dressed in real-ish clothes and not just PJs.
There are some mornings though where I’ll go back to bed after feeding the cats and I’ll get up at 8:25 to log into my first meeting. But overall, I’ve gotten used to sticking to a routine.
Anonymous
I am going to answer to force myself to do this exercise:
6- 6:20 – Wake up, look at phone, dress for gym
6:20-7:45 – Gym
7:45-8:15 – breakfast
8:15-845 – walk dogs
8:45-9:15 – shower and dress
9:15-9:45- commute
I only go to the gym 3 of 5 workdays, so ideally I would use the extra time the other 2 days to do chores. Now that I have done this, I feel motivated to try this earlier schedule. Right now I work out at 7:30 and get up at 7:15 and later on days I skip the gym.
June
Pre-kids ( and pre-covid) to get everything done I would:
7:00 (or earlier) wake up, have coffee, read, look at internet
7:45 leave for gym
8-8:30/8:45 work out
8:30/8:45-9:00/9:15 get ready at gym
Arrive at office between 9:15 and 9:30.
I would pack gym bag, lunch, set up coffee pot and pick out outfit the night before.
JB
6:00 alarm goes off
6:30 either running/ walking outside or hitting snooze (one week is all working out and one week is all slacking. Some weeks I just throw in the towel and set the alarm for 7 am)
7:30 shower/ get ready and make coffee
7:59 commute (WFH for the foreseeable future)
8:00 start working. First meeting is at 8 or 8:30
I’m a morning person, so sometimes I have things that need to be reviewed in the mornings and I try to be at my desk by 7:30.
Pre-covid
5:30 alarm
6 am workout
7 am shower
7:30 commute
8:15 office
Ses
The replies on this type of thread always confuse me by having such brief spans of time per activity. My gym visit always takes over an hour. Getting up always takes 20 minutes. A shower is 20 minutes. A bit of checking email and various internet things is 45 minutes.
Is this something everyone is working hard to do in a very efficient manner with no nonsense, or am I just moving like molasses?
Anon
Anyone read J.K. Rowling’s controversial essay? Personally, I found it honest, compassionate, and accurate and I sympathize with the unhinged misogyny she’s encountering, but clearly a lot of other people disagree. I’m not sure how many actually read the essay, though, based on the quality of some of the hot takes. Why has ANY nonconformity on this issue grown SO untouchable? Why are we at the point where it’s OK/celebrated for a former (male) aide to Senator Warren to post a screed telling Rowling, a beloved author and sexual and domestic assault survivor, to “shut the f*ck up you f*ck?” Genuinely interested in how others here are perceiving this.
Anonymous
I think she’s an extremely wealthy and powerful woman who has inexplicably decided to dive into a very sensitive issue on an extreme end with no care or consideration for the broader impact of her words.
Anon
+1
She’s decided to be offended over something that has nothing to do with her. No one is saying she has fewer rights or she isn’t a woman because trans women exist. She is despicable.
Anon
Did you even read the article? It has everything to do with her as a woman, particularly a woman who has experienced domestic and sexual violence. It’s a lot easier to call her “despicable” than to actually engage with what she said. That much is clear in all of this.
Anon
Yeah, I don’t agree with everything JK Rowling wrote but saying it is has nothing to do with her is ridiculous.
pugsnbourbon
Yeah. My wife and I loved the books – my wife only read them after she transitioned and it was fun to watch her discover the stories I enjoyed growing up. It’s a real bummer, and it comes at a time when I’m already dealing with some nasty transphobia from my extended family and I’m tired. I’m tired of folks who think my wife is delusional and I’m enabling her. Trans women are women.
I see some comments below along the lines of “I agree with her but I’d never say it.” You know what? Say it. Tell your friends and let them decide if they want to make the effort to continue their friendship with you. Maybe they will. But maybe they’ll decide it’s not worth it. We’ve lost friends over my brave, brilliant wife’s transition, but we’ve also made beautiful new ones.
Anon
Serious question – are you going to get rid of your Harry Potter books over this? There are a lot of debates about separating the art from the artist and I am wondering how you are going to approach this, assuming that you actually own the books.
pugsnbourbon
We own audiobook versions. We’ve made donations to trans-affirming organizations in the last couple months that exceed what we spent on those, and if we decide to go to HP world in the future, we’ll make additional donations to offset the tickets and any purchases there.
Anon
I believe trans women are women. I also believe I am a woman, and not a “menstruator” or a “breeder” or any other pejorative that people seem to think is okay to apply to me because I was born biologically female. I don’t understand why, in order for trans women to have rights, women who were born with XX chromosomes need to have their fundamental identity and humanity belittled and negated. I also don’t understand why there seems to be absolutely no room to even have a discussion about this without people “canceling” someone or shouting them down.
lemon
+1
Anon
+100000000
Also
Do you ever notice how this is always directed at women and never men? Men can do whatever the f they want, apparently but god forbid a woman even ask a question.
So much of it is rooted in misogyny.
Carmen Sandiego
+1 to all of this.
Anonymous
Yep.
Anon
Well said.
Ses
Thanks for sharing this here, pugsnbourbon. I’m sorry you and your wife have had transphobia from within your family and now have the crap of a favourite author letting you down. I wish you the best, and want to say I support you and your wife. Trans women are women. & happy Pride month :)
anon
I don’t understand why she keeps bringing this up, tbh. These Twitter-wars have been going for over a year, now interviews and essays. The people in her direct environment respectfully disagree, others on the internet vehemently disagree and attack viscously. No progress is made.
Anon
Well, clearly it was meant to be a response to the extreme mischaracterizations and abuse and logical fallacies being hurled at her. I doubt that crowd will ever read it though. I think she also wrote it to stand up for the growing community of women that strongly supports her.
Anonymous
Again, one of the richest women in the world. She can opt out of this anytime she wants. She’s adding nothing to the discussion.
Anonymous
As a rich woman, she is the only sort of woman who can afford to air her views frankly.
Anon
Disagree. I got something out of it. I applaud her for using her financial safety net and reputation to raise an important issue that too many other women feel totally silenced on. The cancel culture BS and the demands for 100% conformity on a complex issue have got to go.
Tired
Exactly! Why did it even come up? And part of being a public figure is ignoring what people say about you online
Anonymous
I read Rowling’s essay and found it compelling.
My very militant lesbian friend posted in response how in her circles she has been labeled a bigot for not wanting to be with trans women. The hear wants what the heart wants, no!
abc
I find that mindset utterly baffling.
Anon
Yes. I tried to post about this below but I’m in mod.
Do you notice gay men who don’t want to be with trans men are just fine?
It’s misogyny.
Anon
Oh good, the trans troll is back.
Anon
Read the room. Lots of posters here have different positions. People can disagree with your position – it doesn’t make someone a tr0ll to do so.
Anonymous but not anonytroll
Yeah, I’m not a troll nor a poster anywhere else in this thread, and I agree with the sentiments being expressed in this thread. You know people like me in real life, too, I promise. I just know that if I actually vocalize even mere openness to what J.K. Rowling (and others) are saying – just openness, not even agreement – that I’ll be shamed and labeled as a transphobe, perhaps publicly. No thanks.
Anonymous
I did read it, and agree with your assessment. It’s exceptionally well written, and she writes about difficult topics with kindness and empathy.
I loathe the existing cancel culture, where people think it is OK to swear at, threaten, shout out, and shut down anyone who does not agree with what they think is right. It isn’t just “conservatives” or “liberals” doing this, it is all kinds of people who are convinced that the rightness of their view allows them to threaten or silence others.
To me, it hurts their cause. I don’t have the inclination or the time to traffic with hate, and I just ignore more and more of this, and do what I think is best. I will try to use a less loaded comparison – I don’t agree with all the orders my state has issued during the pandemic, but in each and every moment, I follow them. I may not agree with all opinions about certain social issues, but in the moment, I do my utmost to be a good and kind person. If that’s not enough, I don’t care.
Vicky Austin
+100 to your last paragraph especially.
Anonymous
clap emojis. love your last sentence!
Anon
I mean, I read the essay – I agree with some things she said, and not with others, but I think my biggest takeaway is how much I despise the new “cancel” style culture that’s arisen on the left (and I say this as a liberal Joe Biden supporter). I think her entry into this discussion was poorly timed, and I generally think the sheer amount of focus on transgender people is a bit disproportionate – they are overall a tiny, very oppressed, sliver of the population, and so much discussion seems to take place only online.
What concerns me far more is the move on the left generally to suppress speech they don’t agree with, but selectively. I’m wildly opposed to Tom Cotton’s op-ed for example, but I think that a paper firing it’s Op-Ed editor for publishing it, while giving voice to the Taliban is borderline insanity.
Anonymous
It is all so chilling.
Anon
Yes to all of this.
Anon
+1. Shutting down anything we don’t agree with, as progressives, isn’t the answer to solving bias.
anonshmanon
Clearly, she keeps bringing it up, so I don’t really see how speech is being suppressed here.
Hildy
I’m not worried about her speech being suppressed, but I have found that as “cancel” culture grows, more and more people I know are less willing to engage in discussions on important social issues. You can’t change someone’s mind on something if they don’t feel comfortable sharing their views. I think the 2016 election showed us how this plays out in practice, people feel they can’t share their views publicly, so they don’t. And then you end up with a racist misogynistic self-centered psychopath in the oval office.
American Girl
I am a progressive democrat and I support trans rights and yet I am extremely uncomfortable with how cancel culture attempts to stifle all conversation about trans issues. The fact is, there is indeed a degree of philosophical tension between some of the viewpoints that the trans community has expressed and feminism, and pretending that this tension doesn’t exist does not help anyone. We need to be able to explore these ideas kindly, gently, thoughtfully, and without fear of the twitter mob — and also accept that sometimes, we have to live with philosophical discomfort and tension because not everything has an easy answer. But it’s insane that we can’t even have that conversation without being accused of transphobia or hatred.
Anon.
This.
Anon
Thank you.
I changed my regular handle to post anon on this issue since this view is so unpopular, which makes me extremely sad.
JB
Thank you.
I changed my regular handle to post anon on this issue since this view is so unpopular, which makes me extremely sad.
Anon
I appreciated the points she made, but I would never say so in real life because I’m not rich and famous enough to protect myself from the fallout of having what is not an acceptable opinion.
Anonymous
This.
Anon
I read it and agree with it. Really disturbed at how misogyny and cancel culture have become so intertwined. People want women to be strong except when their opinions are wrongthink.
Anon
I read it and agreed with a lot of it. You can be supportive of trans people while also being concerned about the erasure of women. Personally I think it was silly for her to pick a fight over the phrase “people who menstrate” though. Lots of biological women don’t menstrate, and the article she was objecting to was specifically about feminine hygiene products so using the phrase “women” I’m the headline would have been less clear and just confusing overall.
Anonymous
It is ironic that I read the essay and then took my morning vitamin. My “women’s” vitamin, with folic acid in case I get pregnant and extra iron to replace what I lose each month. I am guessing that the word police will be dispatched soon.
Question: it says women’s, but shouldn’t these also be for girls who have had their periods start? I am not a doctor but IIRC there isn’t anything between Flintstones and what I take and then the “Centrum Silver” kind for older people (maybe with more calcium so you don’t break bones and less iron if you are post-menopause?).
Anon
I read the essay and agreed with most of it. I am another woman who thinks being called a “menstruator” is demeaning and dehumanizing (and inaccurate, as I don’t menstruate thanks to an IUD). Gotta say, I don’t see the same thought policing and shouting down of men in this debate about trans identity.
Anon
This. Every time a woman says anything that isn’t totally conformist on the issue, the Twitter warriors tar and feather her. Whenever men do it, they’re silent. A number of male intellectuals have written on this issue, mostly in the UK, and they get absolutely zero public backlash.
Anon
I fully agree about not thought policing men to this degree. That said, I’m confused by this comment. People who use the phrase “menstruator” are not saying that menstruator = woman. In fact, it’s the opposite – they use “menstruator” to drive home the point that some women (like you and my post-menopausal mom) don’t menstruate, and some people who menstruate are not women. This article was specifically about access to feminine hygiene products, which many women don’t need and some people who aren’t women do need, so using the phrase “menstrautor” instead of “woman” makes sense in that context to me.
Anonymous
But it’s not just about having a monthly flow. Almost every female person has a uterus, a cervix, ovaries, and a host of female-specific needs. We are, on the average, smaller and weaker than men. Even men who undergo sex change operations to become women have different musculature and skeletal structures. Women who no longer menstruate have menstruated.
Anonanonanon
I haven’t read the essay to be candid, but didn’t this all start (this time) with a tweet where she was careless and dismissive with her words, talking about an article that didn’t make the point she was complaining about? It seemed like she was looking for a fight. But I don’t know if the essay fixes it, I will read it.
Alex
Okay, I admit my perspective on this is a bit biased because I’m a trans guy. (I read here because the fashion advice is still useful sometimes and I like seeing the comments.) In short, it’s saying all the wrong things in all the right language.
Her understanding of trans folks, in short, appears to be that trans guys like me are “girls” who don’t understand what we’re doing, and trans women are sexual predators. I know a trans woman. She is a wonderful person who aspires to be a marine biologist and draws as a hobby. She is not, to the best of my knowledge, a sexual predator.
The argument that I don’t understand what I’m doing, that if I waited I’d realize I’m actually just a normal woman with some body image/internalized sexism issues, is actually fairly common. I’m 21. I’ve been wishing my breasts would just go away since I was 14. I remember, quite distinctly, thinking that maybe cancer wouldn’t be so bad if I got a mastectomy. (Yes, I know that’s horrible.) I have three different mental health professionals agreeing that this is a long-term thing and transitioning to male is the right path for me. How long do I need to wait before I can make my own choices about what I want to do with my body? When am I trusted to know my own mind? (I’m also autistic, although I’m high-functioning and a full-time college student in another state from my parents. I don’t deny that the connection between autism and transitioning to male exists. It’s a topic of discussion in the autistic community. The solution is not that autistic women can’t make their own decisions about their lives. If they’re legally competent to make other medical decisions, let them make that one.)
On the “trans women are sexual predators” front, I have to ask: has anyone making that argument actually heard, ever, of a case of a man actively identifying as a woman to enter a female-only space for sexual harassment purposes? I might believe it’s happened a few times, but making a fuss about how everyone in the women’s bathroom has to meet your standards of femininity is going to cause a lot more trouble. Further, on the legal-gender-change front, the process is $500 and six weeks in my area just for the court order. Then you have to get all your documents reissued. I’m looking at an outlay of close to a thousand dollars. Bluntly, if you’re going to sexually harass women, there’s a lot of easier ways. (I have, in fact, been sexually harassed by men when I was living as a woman. They did not follow me into the bathrooms and go “NO IT’S OKAY I’M FEMALE”. They yelled “Take off your shirt!” when I was out running, or told me I was a [dog] who needed to get laid while we were practicing for a school presentation.)
She’s being attacked, in part, because she said a lot of things that were deeply hurtful to people. Many people, especially around my age, are deeply attached to her work. Having someone whose artistic output was important to you as a child come out and say that she thinks people like you are either misguided or sexual predators is hurtful. I’m sure she has been getting a lot of pushback that’s rooted in misogyny. Of course that’s not all right. But what she said was wrong, both factually and ethically, and a lot of the pushback is also rooted in that.
Anon
I don’t agree with everything you wrote (there ARE sexual predators cases – look at the Yaniv case), but thank you for a thoughtful comment that disagrees with Rowling without resorting to slurs or repeated all-caps mantras. It’s refreshing.
Alex
That’s fair, I was a bit hasty there. It is rare, though. Every community has its creeps and nuts, and its “filing strange and frivolous lawsuits to get money” people. The existence of Jessica Yaniv does not, I think, change the fact that the vast majority of trans women really just want to go about their lives without trouble.
Anon
I don’t think you were hasty in your reply regarding sexual predator cases. There are cases of non-trans men and women engaging in predatory behavior, so really whether an individual is trans or not seems like a red herring to me when it comes to a fear of sexual predators. I also am unaware of there being any correlation to trans individuals being more likely to engage in that behavior than any other population of individuals. That argument to me always just feels like a way to make people fear someone they are already (for whatever reason) predisposed not to trust or understand, and lets them off the hook for those feelings.
Anonymous
Also, apparently, one of the people in charge of the breakaway part of Seattle. Ugh.
Anon
Well said, thank you.
Anonymous
My concern is more with youth sports where we have boys and girls divisions. If we can’t have that, why even have a girls division (and just call it “open”)?
Alex
Depends on how young you’re talking. Pre-puberty, there isn’t much of a physiological difference, and I might actually say to go for the merge. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/cen.13350 is an endocrinology article discussing how and when the performance differences kick in. Post-puberty, it depends a lot on hormone treatment details – a trans girl who’s been on testosterone blockers might well be on a level playing field with the cis girls, and a trans boy on testosterone could be able to hold his own with cis boys. It is an issue that’s going to get a lot more air time as more trans people are involved in sports, and I don’t know where it’s going to end up.
Anon
High school and college sports is exactly my area of concern. Honestly I don’t care how you dress, what you call yourself. But I want cis-girls to have the opportunity to win gold medals and build confidence in athletics. I can’t imagine playing soccer against a trans-women who transitioned partially through puberty. (I also play co-ed sports and the physicality of the game with men completely changes how aggressively I play).
Alex
Transition to female involves being put on testosterone blockers. After the medication has had time to work (it varies by person; you’ll generally see full effects within a year), a trans woman may be on the upper edge of the cis female performance range, depending on exact medical details, but she will be within that range. The main difference between cis men and cis women for sports purposes is about how testosterone affects your muscles. Once you stop testosterone input, those advantages die off fast. (Height sticks, obviously, but some cis women are just naturally tall. My best friend is 6’0”, and she’s cis.) To compete at high levels, a lot of sports require testing for trans women to prove that their testosterone levels are low enough. Other ones restrict how long you need to be on testosterone blockers.
People have actually looked into this. This 2017 study https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40279-016-0621-y went through as much data as they could find, and determined that there was no evidence that trans women systematically outperformed cis women. When trans female athletes are allowed to compete with women, they lose a lot of the time. Yes, they win sometimes. Someone’s going to. But if a trans woman works very hard and devotes a lot of time to her sport, she may be able to compete at high levels. That doesn’t necessarily mean she has an unfair advantage.
(You do see some real wonkiness with trans men who end up stuck on the women’s team. That is legitimately a problem, but it’s not a terribly common one.)
Hildy
Thank you very much for sharing this.
Anon.
Thank you so much for your perspective.
I read the essay and couldn’t quite point to what was bothering me, and you articulated some of that.
Anonymous
I appreciate your perspective and how you aren’t simply throwing out slurs. How do you address the growing issue of medical autonomy in light of all the detransitioning that’s been going on lately?
Anonymous
Why does the poster need to? De transitioning doesn’t prove that transitioning was wrong.
Anonymous
Are you arguing that it’s normal/healthy/advisable for someone to go through two sets of extensive surgeries and medication therapies?
Alex
Is your issue with children making these decisions, or with insufficient medical restrictions on who can make these decisions?
I feel that anyone who’s considered an adult and competent to make their own medical decisions should be allowed to. If that involves spending the time and effort to persuade a series of doctors that you’re really trans and should get transition treatment, go ahead. (I’m currently in my fourth week of waiting for my psychologist to give me something saying I’m actually trans, and not psychotic or manic or doing this for attention. This is the first step of at least six to get my insurance company to pay for treatment. So I generally feel that the process is slowed down enough for adults.)
I don’t know much about transition in children. I was an adult when I came out and began transition. So was everyone I know. It’s not really my field and I don’t feel comfortable prevaricating on it, sorry.
Anonymous
I agree with both of you. I do think that “questioning” is something that happens and the outcome can be many things. I hope that kids feel no pressure on this, but I know that that isn’t the case. Also, as kids are so sheltered these days (riding in the back seat often well into puberty) and they can’t drink or smoke or get tattoos, there should be a high bar for other decisions with life-long impact. A 14-year-old can’t just get an abortion (and we are rightly concerned that a pregnant girl of that age is a victim of a sex crime who may need services in addition to an abortion), permanent steps to transitioning or impairing fertility seem to have similar issues of needing extra scrutiny.
Anon
+1
Anon
Rowling addresses this in her article. When 80-90% of trans-identifying youth will desist by adulthood, we need to think long and hard about whether 14-year-olds should undergo mastectomies and begin taking puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones that carry health risks and cause infertility.
Anon
And that makes total sense to me, but there is a contingent of very vocal people in the conversation who seem to be taking the position that if a 12-year-old wants to transition, everyone in that 12-year-old’s life is obligated to ask no questions and co-sign the transition and the parents are obligated to take the kid to a doctor to start them on hormone suppression therapy and even start surgical procedures that will result in a physical transition. I have a 13-year-old child, and let me tell you, even in smart kids the overall “good choices” judgement is lacking, and identity, beliefs, etc. are extremely transient. I have no issue with an 18-year-old transitioning and I can see the case for younger people transitioning IF there has been therapy, a lot of conversation, and some time given so the weight of that decision can be fully contemplated. Saying that makes me a TERF/trans enemy in some circles.
Ellen
Why can’t we just appreciate J.K. Rowling for her exellent Harry Potter books that I grew up with. I read just about all of them, and then gave them to Rosa, and she read them also. We both turned out normal, even tho we are different, but there is no problem with that, Dad says. I think that all people are entitled to have their own opinion’s on stuff and that is what she has. Respect her for her accomplishments, and do NOT bash her if you do not like her. That is what the first amenmendment is all about. Any lawyer can tell you this!
Anon
The reason the girl can’t get an abortion has nothing to do with her own best interests though.
Anon
I am not gay but have several very close friends who are. A lot of lesbians feel excluded from gay pride by the gay and trans communities. You can read more about this if you care to, and it’s not for me to explain, but I have sympathy for their viewpoint.
Somehow it’s not ok to be a woman who loves (biological) women but nobody ever objects to gay men loving (biological) men.
It’s just another instance where women are held to higher standards. I’m sick of it in all contexts.
Anon
Yeah, of course they’re going to feel excluded when men march with “I punch TERFs” signs (or carry baseball bats). Oh, so violence against women is okay if it’s for what you decided is a good cause? Right…
Anonymous
I have heard the term TERF used by women much more than men, fwiw
Anon
My counterpoint, I have only ever heard the term TERF coming from gay men.
Anon
Not me. My social media is full of gay men and Bernie bro types (mutually exclusive groups in my circle) throwing around DIE TERF and other charming sentiments.
The same groups also LOVE the Karen stereotype.
Anon
I’ve heard it come from men WAY more.
AnonNYC
Anecdata to add to the choir, but as a queer woman married to a dude, I basically exclusively hear TERF used by women. (Like every lesbian, bi or otherwise queer woman I know?)
Anon
Even if it was mostly used by women (which has not been my observation) how would that make it acceptable?
Anon
The “I punch TERFs” is what first disturbed me into questioning the liberal feminist party line- people are ok with advocating violence and rape against women who just want single sex spaces? Unbelievable that anyone calling themselves feminist could support violence against women (for any cause).
Anon
This x 1000. I would probably have never questioned the party line without seeing those violent threats from trans activists and other activists making excuses for them.
Anon
Almost all the comments here have failed to address that JKR kicked all of this off by commenting on an article that was explicitly about menstruating. The article centered around menstruation issues (and used inclusive language because not all people who menstruate are women). She swooped in with a comment that very clearly said that she thought it was ridiculous or silly to use inclusive language.
Anon
Actually, a lot of us pointed out (just like JKR did) that being reduced to “menstruators” feels offensive and dehumanizing, not inclusive.
Anon
Did you read the article she replied to? Language is important here. It says “People who menstruate” in the title. Nowhere does it say “menstruators”. The entire article is very specifically about the issue of menstruation. This is not a random article about being a woman or any other topic. It is literally about menstruation. Which is done by people who are not women. Why don’t you want to include people who menstruate who aren’t women, in an article that is about them too?
Anon
Given how many women I know, including myself, who *cannot menstruate* due to health reasons and would love to be able to do so, whether due to hysterectomies or hormone imbalances or any number of other things, her comments and those of the people supporting her taking issue with “people who menstruate” hit a sour note even for this cis/bio/whatever you want to call it woman. Saying “all women menstruate” and that that’s an important part of someone’s existence as a woman is hurtful to a LOT of people.
Anon
Feminists don’t say “all women menstruate.” I’ve read about this issue for many years now and I’ve never once seen that. I do see some saying “all people who menstruate are women.” Those are different statements.
AnonNYC
Her line about “Ironically, radical feminists aren’t even trans-exclusionary – they include trans men in their feminism, because they were born women.” made my eyes roll so hard into my head they may be stuck there. They’re still excluding trans men’s experience by wanting to include them as women, that’s the point. It’s not ironic!
Anon
I’m begging anyone who agrees with her to read this. Her basic facts are wrong: https://www.forbes.com/sites/dawnstaceyennis/2020/06/11/this-is-the-sequel-jk-rowling-doesnt-want-you-to-read/#5e32681a5165
Anon
That article is garbage, sorry.
Anon for this
Thanks for raising this issue. I’m queer, I was raised by lesbian parents, and I’m married to a trans man. However, I also am VERY uncomfortable with the way that trans issues have become such a high profile and public “test” of liberal beliefs. Honestly, I could do with a large segment of cisgender straight “allies” bowing out of the conversation.
I have a lot of sympathy to radical feminist critique and I think the framing of gender identity and specifically cisgender identity is very alienating to many cis women and girls. Although I am gender conforming, I cringe at the notion that there is some essential part of me is a woman. How could that be feminist? However, my husband *did* have the experience of feeling that he was a man in an essential and profound way. I’ve heard the “right” rationale that would say that my experience is simply the experience of being cisgender (ie your assigned gender fits you, so you don’t have to think it! You’re the norm!). But I don’t think that is true to how the identity and experience of being a woman is created. If gender is as social category, then it is created in relationship between society (parents, lovers, etc) and the female-sexed child–gender is not “born this way” and cannot arise out of an inner sensibility. My fear now is that especially in very sexist and homophobic environments, people who would previously have identified as GNC girls, lesbians, etc. now identify as non-binary or trans because they don’t “feel like a girl/woman.” As a feminist and someone who knows and loves many GNC women, that makes me quite sad.
Although my husband began his transition when he was 18 (and came out as queer before then), already there has been a huge change in how queer communities describe that experience, not to mention an explosion of youth, particularly female children, identifying as trans or non-binary. We remain a bit unsure of how we would want to respond to a child who expressed GNC or trans/NB identity. Knowing the number of GNC people we know, how could we as parents find the balance between supporting a child’s authentic self (like, if him, they truly will benefit from transition) while also helping them expand the rigid social categories they encounter in the world?
XStitcher
Does anyone have experience with resizing their engagement/wedding ring multiple times? In hindsight, I foolishly sized my engagement ring down a few sizes because it was so large I was afraid it would come off of my finger and I was tired of the temporary plastic things to put on the back of it. Fast forward 20 lbs and one child later, and I can’t get my ring on my finger. Has anyone had it sized back up? Recommendations on going to a private jeweler vs. the chain store where it was bought (where I had it sized down)? I’m in a fairly rural area, so my local options aren’t numerous. Should I dismiss the idea completely? I’m worried that even if I lose the weight, it still may not fit in the current size.
Boston Legal Eagle
Both my husband and I recently resized our rings up (2 kids here!), and we went to a local private jeweler. Both look good and you can’t even tell they were changed. I believe they can size down in the future if needed. Cost was around $500 for both, YMMV depending on your area.
TheElms
It should be fine to resize back up. The jeweler will tell you though. I have my mother’s engagement ring and needed it sized up significantly and it involved rebuilding part of the shank. She had previously had it resized down twice I think. (She shrank as she aged). It was expensive, but doable. In future, if you lose weight and need to size down the jeweler can put metal blobs on the inside of the ring or a metal bar to make the ring smaller. These can then be removed if needed down the road without compromising the integrity of the ring so much.
Anon
Not OP, but interesting! I hadn’t heard of the blobs/bar concept. Thanks for sharing!
Lana Del Raygun
I did a temporary version of this with a zillion coats of clear nail polish.
Senior Attorney
I hadn’t either but good grief it makes so much sense!!
Anone
It depends on the metal content and the design shape. My ring has scrollwork all the way around, and so can’t be sized without warping the engraving.
I’d definitely ask a private jeweler rather than the chain. Chains usually send work out to a third party anyway.
Clueless first timer
Does anyone have a good baby budget (found somewhere or self-created)? I have a budget for our general life expenses, but am looking for something that has baby specific categories to consider including for their first few years. I jotted down the following but would love others to add anything I’m missing:
Medical – doctor visits, tests, medicines, emergencies
Personal hygiene
Food
Entertainment – baby specific activities, clothes, baby gear, toys
Travel – specific costs for traveling with baby
Gifts
Baby specific memberships
What else?
Also, interested to know how people felt about how much they spent the first few years vs. how much they thought they’d spend beforehand. Thank you!
Anonymous
Daycare far surpassed any of those expenses for us – by a factor of 10 or so. If you are continuing to work that is where I’d focus your efforts.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
+1,000,000
The cost of childcare is staggering.
Anonymous
You are missing the biggest expense: child care!
If you can afford it, also budget for additional household help like a cleaning service and occasional babysitters for adult nights out.
Quail
The biggest one – childcare. Include both regular and special occasion (baby sitting, nights if you have to travel, gym childcare, etc)
I’d separate out clothing and gear. These are two areas where if you are trying to budget, you will want a clear picture of your limits. I’ve impulse purchased a lot of gear as I’ve realized we’ve needed it quickly – oh no, baby’s crawling, we need 4 baby gates ($200); we need a play fence ($100) – and it adds up, especially when you don’t have time to find used stuff. Same with clothes – one day the onesie doesn’t fit and you are filling your cart at Target/Carters.
I assume diapers are in personal hygiene – those also add up. And wipes.
We feed our kids the same as what we feed ourselves, and it really didn’t add anything to the budget except for berries (so expensive but so easy) and milk. Formula can be expensive, too, which we had on hand but did not use regularly.
In both of our childrens’ first 1-3 years, we spent way more than I anticipated, especially on gear.
anon
I’d also add activities as the baby gets older and turns into a kid. Swim lessons, soccer league, things like that.
I’m not sure what you mean by baby specific memberships…
Anon
Our son has been in some kind of paid activity – from Gymboree to Kindermusik to soccer to martial arts to robotics club – requiring a seasonal or monthly payment from the time he was a few months old. Not required, obviously, but everyone we know does those extra activities. They get more expensive as kids get older and if kids end up in competitive travel teams the expenses can range into the tens of thousands of dollars. Something for the OP to be aware of but it’s hard to plan for.
Blueberries
Childcare and back up childcare, and some date night childcare. Childcare that you love can be really, really expensive. Childcare that you feel meh about can also be really expensive. Sample budgets that I saw always had laughably low numbers for childcare compared to actual costs in my VHCOL area.
Talk to friends about what they spend for how much coverage for an infant (and how often that doesn’t work out because of sick days, pandemic closures, nanny quitting, etc).
Anon
My baby is five months old. I was completely clueless about how much babies would cost, and just assumed that it if we lit $100 bills on fire, we might not even notice. That said, I am pretty minimalist about baby stuff (refuse to get sucked into the wedding industrial complex or the baby industrial complex) and saved a lot of money that way.
You’re missing a lot of BIG costs. Here goes:
Medical bills: include the cost of birth.
Maternity leave: include the costs of not working, even if you get short-term disability. It likely does not run the entire length of your leave and does not cover your entire salary.
Daycare: a huge expense.
Car seats and strollers: hideously expensive. It’s helpful to have one of the infant specific car seats (bucket seat) to tote the baby around in, but then you’ll need a second car seat when the baby grows out of it. Many of the strollers also have adapters for those bucket seats. Strollers are not cheap, either, and you’ll want to find one that fits your needs. If you’re in a city, you might want a city stroller; if you’re a runner, you’ll want an actual jogging stroller. Get these on sale.
Car: once you’re done putting a car seat, baby, stroller, and extra baby stuff in the car, you may find that you need a bigger car.
Baby furniture: crib, dresser, changing table.
—-
How we saved money: got the jogging stroller on Black Friday deal ($150 off a BOB Revolution). We have one convertible car seat and one (used, from a friend) infant car seat. I’ll upgrade to the convertible when he outgrows the infant. My car also has built-in booster seats.
Furniture: used a BuyBuyBaby coupon on the crib. Found the dresser (normal adult dresser, long) at Costco; it’s really lovely and will be used through his childhood and teenage years. Bought a changing pad for the top of the dresser and use the dresser as a changing table, too.
Costco membership for diapers and formula.
Bought the minimal amount of stuff (got a LOT from friends, too). We buy stuff as we need it. I buy clothes, formula, and diapers one size up ahead of time, but that’s about it. Diapers overlap in size, ex., size 2 diapers go up to 18 pounds but size 3 start at 16 pounds.
Quail
+1 to dresser plus changing pad. Great tips in the above post. We went to IKEA for a $100 crib. That was our nursery. IKEA also has a great $20 high chair. I get why people like to decorate nurseries, but honestly we spend very, very little time in there.
I considered us pretty minimalist, too (we just have $20 audio monitors, skipped all the wipe warmers and baby towels and what not) but we still have a lot of stuff. The physically big stuff is the baby containers – bouncers, seats, etc – which become necessary once kiddo starts to move and you want to get anything done without fear that they are eating the pile of cat fur under the fridge. But! People love to get rid of these things too, so check FB marketplace and with friends before buying anything. You might get lucky.
Anon.
Agree with everything.
Our kid slept in a PackNPlay in our room for the first 1.5 years of his life. Glad we didn’t buy an expensive furniture set.
Anon
We have a few things decorating the nursery, but I think it’s more important to let him choose decorations as a toddler.
I think my head exploded when I saw the whole “baby dresser plus baby changing table” setup. Great for people who want it, but it seems foolish to spend real money on any of that, only to throw it out and buy real-people furniture a few years later. The long, low dressers are also really hard to tip over and feel safer to me.
Anon
Daycare ($2k/month) dwarfs everything else. Our travel budget increased a lot too but that’s because we chose to buy our baby a seat on planes (you don’t have to until they’re 2).
Other estimates…
Medical – $0 (most care is free and we use HSA money given to use by our employers for the rest)
Food – maybe an additional $50/week but we bought diapers and formula at the grocery store, so that stuff was part of our grocery budget
Entertainment – we spent about $2k furnishing a nursery but then didn’t really spend much in the beginning (we got a lot of books and toys as gifts and we didn’t have our infant in any activities). It’s more significant now that we have a toddler, maybe $500/year for a museum membership and a couple of activities
Clothes – probably about $500/year
anon
Childcare is the largest baby-related expense, by far.
Medical expenses depend on your insurance and your child’s health, but the increase in insurance premium and any OOP costs would be the second largest expense for many people. I switched from high deductible to low deductible, and from 1 dependent to “family,” and the premium cost not covered by my employer went from a few hundred to over $800. Preventive care and immunizations should be fully covered, but obviously insurance plans vary widely in deductibles and copays, and babies vary widely in how much healthcare they need.
Personal hygiene – maybe $75-100 per month on diapers and wipes depending on your baby and the brand of diapers you choose. Different brands of diapers work for different kids, but this is an area where finding the brand that works is worth it, even if it costs a bit more.
Food – If you use formula, it’s pretty expensive. If you nurse, you may eat a little more than usual, and you may want extra gear for pumping. When babies start solids, food costs aren’t that high if you feed them normal foods, and if you’re doing purees, they’re easy to make yourself. Many people buy the fruit/veggie pouches, which are expensive and convenient but not necessary.
Entertainment – you don’t need to do any baby specific activities. I did mom and baby yoga until Kiddo started crawling, but entirely for my own benefit. We started receiving memberships to the zoo, etc as gifts around 1.5-2 years old.
Clothes and toys – you can go really expensive, or you can accept hand-me-downs, shop second-hand, and look at community swaps. I spent about almost nothing on Kiddo’s clothes the first year because I had hand-me-downs, then shopped consignment and spent about $150 per year until Kiddo was 3 or 4. At that age, kids wear things longer and are tougher on them, so there aren’t as many good used play clothes available. For toys, babies really don’t need that much, and most parents complain about having too many toys.
Gear – this is another area where it really depends. Lucie’s list is a good resource for the types of gear you’ll need, with options in different categories. You don’t have to buy everything at once. There’s also a lot of used gear available on Facebook marketplace (or whatever is popular in your area) and often via hand-me-downs.
Travel – it’s safer to buy an infant their own plane seat, and it’s more comfortable for everyone. But you don’t have to until they turn 2, and many people don’t. Car seats and strollers can be checked or gate-checked for free, so no added expense there. You may end up paying more for plane tickets for more convenient flights (you don’t necessarily want to wake the baby up at 3 am for the cheaper 6 am flight, or land after midnight, or try to make a tight connection because you’re gate checking the stroller). Hotel rooms with an extra room or a small kitchenette are super convenient with a baby and make the trip more enjoyable, but not a necessity and not always more expensive if other amenities don’t matter (Hilton Garden Inn vs Hilton, or AirBNB).
Gifts – for the baby? Wrap up some stuff you’d buy anyways and call it a day until they’re at least 2.
In total, the “everyday” expenses when my son was under 2–formula (from 6-12 months), food, clothing, diapers, toys–cost me around $300 per month. I received a lot of gear as gifts and hand-me-downs, and spent maybe $600 total on a used Bob stroller ($250) and, when he outgrew the bucket car seats, 2 new convertible car seats. Childcare was $1400 per month.
Anon
I think everything has been mentioned, but wanted to say that I didn’t plan on buying much but I’ve been spendier than I thought I would be. Instead of a cheap carseat I bought one of the most expensive ones, my baby sleeps in a merino wool sleep sack, I’ve bought lots of nicer clothes, etc. But I’ve been surprised how much stuff you can get for free if you have friends or family who are done with babies and are looking to offload. You can also really clean up at those baby consignment sales like Just Between Friends or yard sales.
Anonymous
Daycare, food (either formula or extra food for the nursing parent), health insurance (change in premiums going from ‘couple’ to ‘family’), and extra plane tickets (we bought our kids plane seats from birth) were the big ones for us. The extra grocery budget while nursing was the biggest shock to us–we almost doubled what we were spending pre-pregnancy.
You can spend thousands outfitting a nursery and on strollers and carseats or you can choose not to. We had twins and bought a used double stroller ($350), infant carseats from a friend ($100 each) , and cheap convertible carseats because they worked well with our car/traveling lifestyle ($50 each). So that was under $700 for a stroller and carseats that lasted until age 3.5, but you can also choose to spend double that on just a stroller. Similarly we bought IKEA cribs ($100 each) and repurposed a dresser as a changing table (free). Basically all their clothes were gifts, handmedowns, or used, so we spent very little on clothing.
TheElms
Some things I didn’t see in your list/ other people’s lists:
C- Section Delivery: $5k after insurance
Daycare: $3k a month
Increased health insurance premiums: $150 a month
Postpartum doula – no local family; husband had to return to work: $2k
Breastfeeding support and gear: $2k (not covered by my insurance b/c its a grandfathered plan and ACA didn’t apply)
Baby medical: Early vaccines to facilitate travel to see family that ended up not being covered by insurance: $500
Maternity clothes for more polished end of business casual: $500
Return to work clothes that were nursing/pumping friendly and fit me at a larger size: $500
OP
Thank you everyone! Really appreciate the advice. You may not have picked up from my initial list (sarcasm – it’s glaringly obvious) that I’m the first in my circle to start a family, and my brother has been going for the bougiest options possible for my new nephew, so I don’t have a great personal reference point. Some of our assumptions are unrealistic after looking at your suggestions, but hopefully some of it still works. Talking myself through this now mostly so feel free to ignore:
– Medical coverage for me: we already set aside the full out of pocket maximum ($5,000) for all of my medical expenses, including labor and delivery. Better to assume we’ll use it all and redirect leftovers elsewhere if we get lucky.
– Medical coverage for all of us: didn’t consider how much insurance can increase once we change so good to start planning now.
– Maternity leave: I get 4 months fully paid and can tack on my month of paid vacation time if we need it. Even with this, I’m still only considering 10 weeks and then using the rest later in the first year if needed (allowed by company). Maternity leave advice during an economic downturn should be a whole other thread…
– Breastfeeding supplies: my company provides pumps and other resources, but these posts made me think I should consider other support we may need postpartum like sleep or breastfeeding consultants.
– Daycare: we are thinking about trying to split the week up between me working from home one or two days, my husband being home a day or two and then our parents covering the other day or two (they want to do this, we didn’t ask!) for the first year, BUT all of your advice is telling us we should plan for childcare expenses now even if the first year is largely covered. We also should plan for backup options and just general date nights, etc. Thank you for pointing this out.
– So helpful to read all the other options for sourcing a lot of the stuff that doesn’t need to be new, and the mindful ways to provide for kids without going overboard. It’s easy to get wrapped up in the industrial complex, particularly when feeling a bit on my own and lost.
Anyway, taking tons of notes. Thanks again all!
Anon
In case you’re still reading: WFH with a baby works fairly well until they become mobile. Then, it really doesn’t work any more. You have to be eyes-on all the time as if they can scoot themselves around, they can also start doing things like pulling up, which progresses to creeping and then to walking in short order. I WFH part-time from the time my son was 4 months until he was 2. At 10 months he started crawling and it got pretty hairball; at 11 months he started walking and I had to have someone come help me during the day or I could not get any work done. So you may want to factor that into your planning. Also, if your job involves a lot of phone calls, just be aware the baby is not going to be quiet when you want him or her to be. Some workplaces are more okay with that than others.
anon
False. There is absolutely no way I could have worked at home when my son was a baby, even before he became mobile. This may work for some babies, it would not have worked for mine.
Anon
And it worked for me, like I said, until my baby became mobile. Don’t tell me it “can’t work” because I definitely did it; I was there. Different people have different experiences. In my case, at that time I was in a job where I did a lot of writing and analysis (which I was able to do pretty easily while he napped or played on the floor or in his exersaucer), I didn’t have a lot of phone calls on the days I was WFH, and my boss was very chill and very supportive of me working from home with my son present. I also only WFH two days a week and the other three I was in the office and he went to daycare. In my current role, where I am on calls 6-7 hours a day and my boss expects more or less immediate availability if she calls or IMs? It would never ever work. But maybe the OP has a job where it could work. You don’t know.
Anon
To be fair I think the “False” responder is responding to your first statement: “WFH with a baby works fairly well until they become mobile“ that reads like that is some universal truth, and it’s just not I would guess for the majority of people. No one is arguing that you didn’t do it, but from your initial post and your follow up it sounds like there are some pretty major caveats that made it work for you (part time, type of work, very understanding boss…) that won’t apply to a lot of people, much less likely both people in this couple. It’s fine to say it worked for you with these caveats, but the initial take didn’t make it sound like that and I think OP needs some reality dose here rather than assuming a highly caveated situation will apply to both her AND her husband. (But, of course, maybe it does!).
Anon
I think the part time here is key to it even working pre-mobile. Not sure if that applies to either OP or her husband.
Anon
This has been discussed here and on the moms page a lot, but planning on working from home with a baby is a really bad idea. If you get a super easy baby who sleeps a lot and is reasonably good about being put down in their own space for play, it might work pretty well until the baby gets mobile (usually between 6-12 months). But those are big ifs, and caring for a mobile baby while working is virtually impossible.
Anonymous
You still need child care if you are working from home. In non-COVID times, most employers would require it.
Anon
So exciting to embark on all this!
Agree, I would definitely rethink/scrap the idea that either of you can work from home while also taking care of a baby. I mean, I know some people are doing some superhero things with regards to that out of necessity bc of COVID right now, but I think it is universally miserable and not something most would choose to do. Also, there is an inherent flexibility right now that employers kind of need to be showing, that in the future in a normal environment will probably not be equally granted. Honestly, if I was a manager and this was a normal non COVID environment, if I knew my employee’s plan was to attempt to work from home a full day while taking care of a baby, I would not view that favorably (bc I know it is basically impossible to do). So at the very least I would carefully consider how you are going to message this to your employers.
Anon
My company, which is mandatory WFH now for all non-manufacturing employees, normally forbids WFH without other childcare coverage.
Ten weeks of maternity leave is a really short time. I do NOT judge women for the choices they make, but babies are just so, so little then. They haven’t even really learned to interact yet. I’m the poster with the five-month old, and I can tell you, going to WFH with my baby instead of back to work has been such a blessing. I am now finally ready for him to be in daycare, as in, he’s finally at the point where I think he needs the stimulation of other children. You may find that you want those four months far more than you think you do, just because they develop so much after about week 13.
There’s also no rule saying you can’t WFH while your baby is in daycare. In fact, it can be a great option: mornings are more relaxed, you bring the baby over when it makes sense for your schedule (meetings, feedings, etc.), and pick the baby up early.
Anon
“I do NOT judge women for the choices they make, but babies are just so, so little then” ….it kind of does sound like you are judging other women though. There are physical reasons why it’s difficult for birth mothers to go back before about 6-8 weeks (and many daycares don’t accept children until they’re 6 weeks old) but there is really no reason a mother shouldn’t plan to go back after 10-12 weeks if that’s what she wants. I can tell you from personal experience that it’s actually a lot less traumatic to drop a 3 month old off at daycare for the first time than a 9 month old, because newborns don’t cry and scream and beg you not to leave the way older infants and toddlers do. Being a mom is without a doubt the best thing I’ve ever done and I love my kids beyond description, but I also really enjoy my job and I didn’t find staying home with an infant who couldn’t communicate especially fulfilling. Even if a 3 month old does not need socialization with other children, that doesn’t mean the daycare environment is in any way detrimental to them (and to be frank, your 5 month old doesn’t need daycare either – kids really don’t *need* interaction with other kids until they’re much older, like 2-3 years old).
Also OP didn’t say she was giving up the leave, she proposes splitting it into two pieces which I think is a wonderful idea. I – and many other people – would MUCH prefer to be home on leave with an older infant or toddler than with a newborn, and if she has the option to take part of her leave at a later time when her child is older and more fun, I don’t think that’s unreasonable at all.
Anon
Depending on your current insurance situation, if you add your baby the out of pocket max may go up depending on the plan so you may end up needing more $$ budgeted. You get a hospital bill and so does the baby! Fun, fun. I hit my max and then I didn’t.
FWIW I don’t think you can be effective working from home with a baby. I started doing it when my baby was 6 months old because of covid. Grandma came over to help but it turned out to be a terrible situation where grandma would keep asking for input for feeding, napping, carrying baby upstairs, etc. Then grandma couldn’t get baby down for naps, and if baby doesn’t nap, they don’t sleep well at night. Similar situation with my in laws. I am even a pretty laid back parent, I was not up in their face worrying if they were doing it my way, I was fine with any way at all. So even though you may have willing grandparents it may not work out. Despite their assurances they did not actually remember how to take care of a baby! In reality I think they just wanted to hold the baby and watch tv.
I also get that you don’t want to be out too long, but I wonder if taking two leaves would have more downsides than one long leave.
Anonymous
+1 to all of this.
Check with your insurance plan, but the baby will likely have its own deductible and copays. Baby can hit an OOP max with just a couple of days of a NICU stay, or just one necessary surgery in the first year.
Working from home with a baby is not possible, especially if there’s no other adult in the house.
For maternity leave, in normal circumstances, I would plan to take the 4 months of maternity leave but not the 1 month of vacation for childcare gaps (sick caretaker or whatever). There’s a natural ramp-up and ramp-down with going on leave, and I wouldn’t plan to do it twice. I hate to say it, but if there’s no clear reason for splitting leave, people will be more inclined to look at your second leave as an extra long vacation. Of course, if you need to split your leave for health/medical reasons, that would be different, and people are likely to be more understanding. Covid throws another wrench into this analysis, but I still would try to avoid going on two maternity leaves for the same child.
Hashtag Blessed
What are you grateful for today?
I work on a leadership team of mainly conservative, white men. And yet, when I (and others) advise to keep employees working from home as long as we can, invest in PPE, etc. they listen and take the advice. I really thought it would be a fight, but at the end of the day they care about the employees. It makes me happy to work here.
Tea/Coffee
-good weather to take my kids “backyard camping” tonight (let’s see if I’m still thankful in the morning lol)
– DH and I both have SUPER amazing employers who are supportive of shifted hours, the need to step away to assist kids with zoom, etc. Work is going well for both of us, unexpectedly, and we recognize that we are in a place of extreme UMC privilege with our ability to WFH
– DH and I have not killed each other :-). Isolation may have actually done good things for our marriage long term.
Anon.
Hahaha, I’m also thankful for #3.
anon
My department is completely supporting a promotion that would be a great step for me, despite a drawn out visa reclassification and uncertainty associated with that. They could have gone with another hire, but they are sticking by me.
Anon
I bet that feels so good!
Vicky Austin
Ira Wolf’s music.
Anon
I have a job interview! Not sure it will pan out, or even if it’s the right job for me, but any step towards getting out of my f&cked up workplace is a good one.
Patricia Gardiner
Good luck!
Patricia Gardiner
Thanks for this prompt!
– I recently received a small research grant, and will find out soon if I received a larger one (signs look good but still keeping fingers crossed!)
– My DH, toddler son, and soon-to-be baby #2 and I are all healthy
– Existence of said toddler son and baby 2… thank you science
– Both of us can mostly work from home and are encouraged to do so
I am feeling very grateful these days and need to keep reminding myself when worries start up.
Sloan Sabbith
My organization gave us the day off as a “self-care/reflection” holiday because of the statewide BLM strike. I used it to sleep in, and am going to spend time with my grandparents and then read a new book or continue listening to Outlander. I really really needed the day off so I was happy they did this.
Anon
A clean mammogram!
Anonymous
Has anyone bought the 5 pack of masks from Brooks brothers? Any idea if they come in the mail or if it’s a FedEx type package? I live in an apartment building and try to go to the lobby as little as possible so generally I prefer things that can be mailed in an envelope and sit in the mailbox for however many weeks until I next go there. Packages OTOH need to be picked up in some timely fashion because the building has limited room to store things and with the volume of online shopping right now they keep emailing you to come get your stuff — but then you have a guy handing you your stuff and even if you’re trying to get them to put the package down so you can pick it up, these are 25 year old guys who don’t care and think they’re being helpful by being arms distance or even less from you to hand you things.
Anon
You’re not going to get covid from getting your mail.
Anonymous
You are going to get it in the elevator going downstairs to get the mail.
Anonymous
False. This is not true.
Anonymous
I want you to be right but where are you getting this?
Anonymous
From everything we’ve learned about the disease and the falling prevalence. Wear a mask. Wash you hands before touching your mail. Leave your apartment.
Anonymous
How packed are these elevators and how many hours are you riding them? In my 22 story building you can get empty elevators like 60% of the time ESP if you’re willing to let 1-2 go by. For some reason around 10 am is always busy but before that is empty. After 6:30 pm is also empty.
Anonymous
If you don’t have an answer to her actual question, just move along. Being unkind benefits no one — least of all yourself.
Anon
I think it’s really problematic that you keep labeling any response other than a 100% co-sign to someone’s post as “unkind.” It’s not unkind to challenge someone’s opinion, especially on this board, which is pretty much built on the concept of a free exchange of ideas. Just because you don’t like the comment doesn’t make it “unkind,” and it also doesn’t give you the right to shut the other person down. Your reply says more about you than it says about what you were replying to.
Anonymous
No, it’s very easy to make the same point but do it in a way that is considerate and might influence the OP positively vs coming across as rude and condescending. I’m sure that “overachieving” women are capable of doing this, and I don’t know why they choose not to. It’s disappointing that they feel entitled to be cruel to OPs here because they’re so … sure they’re right, I guess. But is being unnecessarily cruel ever the right choice? These tactless people are just turning this place into a trash bin.
Anon
Calling someone crazy is always unkind. I don’t know how you can twist yourself into a pretzel and defend that as helpful in some way.
Anonymous
The actual topic of this debate is “what kind of package do Brooks Brothers masks come in” for all those who want to weigh in with helpful remarks.
Anon
I must be missing something because I don’t see anything rude.
anon
Go at an off-peak time. Go later in the evening when there’s less likely to be fewer people around, including the delivery guys. Also recognize that this is a very low risk activity and Brooks Brothers is probably the best source of information on how they ship their products.
Anonymous
I don’t understand why you would need masks if you aren’t leaving your home and avoiding brief, passive interactions in your bulding’s lobby. Or did you want them to cover your eyes to shield you from current information about coronavirus?
anon
+1
Anon
This is the funniest thing I’ve read all week. And it’s funny because it’s true.
Anonymous
It’s about as funny as kicking a dog.
Sloan Sabbith
There’s no need to be rude.
Cat
BB usually uses FedEx or UPS… but if you’re the same OP who’s been posting recently about only getting groceries every 3 weeks, getting mail like once a month, etc., kindly, I hope you’re able to reduce this anxiety given all of the intervening research about how Covid spreads (sustained air sharing, not incidental contact with an asymptomatic person). Those two hair stylists in Missouri that cut 140 people’s hair – wearing non medical masks – despite actually having Covid? None of the clients caught it (2 weeks have passed).
Anon
Pretty sure it’s the same person. She seems to be getting some kind of psychological satisfaction out of posting these questions. It’s starting to seem attention-seeking, TBH.
Anon
From the many numberous posts the OP appears to be trying to solve a psychological problem with a bunch of odd behaviours. The real solution to the problem is…call a therapist.
Anon
This OP reminds me of my friend who won’t even touch anything that someone else has possibly touched. I know we’re all concerned about the pandemic but therapy is definitely needed.
Anonymous
You could all nip this in the bud by only responding to her direct question or not responding to her at all. What does this “we know it’s you again” speculation accomplish? Are you invested in the idea that there can be only one? What would it mean for you if multiple people were indeed posting?
Anon
I know. It’s honestly really creepy how many people are eager to armchair diagnose readers and follow them around for weeks. You know this is a pandemic affecting the entire world, right, and that more than one person who reads this site regularly is looking for advice on navigating exposure incidents?
Anon
+1
there’s a pathology among certain readers that covid is no big deal and they delight in calling anyone more worried about it than they are crazy.
Anon
“there’s a pathology among certain readers that covid is no big deal and they delight in calling anyone more worried about it than they are crazy.”
This is completely reductionist, inaccurate, and intellectually lazy. Please, try harder to be better. This is not at all what’s been happening on the board, especially in regard to the OP. I have not seen anyone say “Covid is no big deal.” I have not seen anyone call anyone crazy for taking precautions. I, and other people, have expressed concern about the OP because her beliefs and behaviors seem to have tipped over from reasonably cautious to agoraphobic. I think the people who are encouraging the OP to continue spiralling down into her non-evidence-based beliefs and basically never leave her home are doing just as much damage as someone calling her “crazy” (which again, I have not seen). There’s more than one kind of health problem out in the world right now. I am frankly concerned about the posters here who seem to delight in encouraging people to do things like not go for a mammogram when they have a concerning breast symptom because Covid-19 is everywhere and it’s better to risk a delayed breast cancer diagnosis than it is to potentially catch Covid. That’s pathological behavior and it doesn’t surprise me that people perpetrating it are getting upset when they’re called out.
Anon
Are you kidding? There’s a contingent here that positively delights in calling people crazy for taking basic, sensible precautions.
Anon
“Are you kidding? There’s a contingent here that positively delights in calling people crazy for taking basic, sensible precautions.”
I think you’re seeing what you want to see.
Anon
You are not a psychiatrist, or even if you are, you are not this poster’s psychiatrist. You need to stop labeling people as crazy or having spiraling anxiety. It doesn’t help her, it doesn’t help anyone. Maybe it makes you feel nice and smug, but that’s it. There is no benefit for anyone else. Just knock it off.
Anon
No.One.Has.Called.Anyone.Crazy. Not in this thread. Not in others. You can introduce that term into the conversation and keep repeating it to try to make a point but it doesn’t change the facts.
Anon at 1:40, I’m going to gently invite you to take a step back from the board – and probably from the Internet in general – because your response was WAY over the top and this is obviously agitating you considerably. Time to take a break.
Anonymous
In what world is only leaving your apartment once every 3 weeks a “basic” precaution?
Anon
I think anxiety can be contagious and sometimes it’s not great to fan the flames.
Anon
+1 million
Anonymous
Right, so scroll on by. Don’t antagonize the OP. If she needs help, saying blunt and mean things to her is not going to help her get it. These posters acting like being rude is just being direct obviously get off on being mean girls then pretending they were only trying to help. Obviously they are also pathological etc and everything else they said about OP.
Anonymous
There is definitely a contingent here who screams anxiety when anyone takes a precaution they’ve deemed unnecessary. It’s been going on since Feb. I was told to go hide in my bunker when I posted here about wanting to cancel a trip to Vegas in the last week of February because I was following China, Italy, and Iran closely. Yet I questioned how it could not already be here ESP in a tourist place like Vegas. I was told I was over reacting to a cold. Use tote own judgment, don’t take advice from know it alls who don’t read/research much or only read things that support what they want to do.
Anon
+1 remember how everyone in January who was concerned about booking future travel was deemed crazy by SO many posters?
Sucks to be right in this case, but very often it’s the cautious people who turn out to be right.
Anonymous
Thanks for this.
NY CPA
I did. They came in a box.
Anon
How else do you think they would come? Look at their website for their shipping information.
Anon
I get my mail delivered to a PO Box instead of to my house, and I understand what the poster is asking even though anon at 3:09 apparently does not.
I deal with this issue frequently because the type of packaging affects how I receive my mail. Instead of a box, do the masks come in a small flat paper envelope? An 8-1/2 x 11 plastic flexible envelope? A thick padded envelope? A box?
I don’t have an answer, but I’m rather astounded at all the replies on this thread. Why does it matter that she wants to reduce potential exposure to covid? I pick up my mail once a week to reduce the transmission risks of entering the post office. I sympathize with what she wants to do. I have reasons for believing that the steps I’m taking are the best ones for our household and presume that OP does as well.
Anon for Friday
Has anyone else been questioning a long-term relationship due to quarantine? Is it fair or reasonable to base any such questioning on this bizarre and unprecedented circumstance?
I have been married for a long time. We have both always worked a lot and spent a decent amount of time apart. During the last few months of both of us working from home, I have been thinking about whether this is what life will look like after retirement, and I don’t think I like it.
I think I answered my own question in writing this. I shouldn’t be basing any judgments on this time, because presumably, in retirement, we will both be out and about doing our own things or doing fun things together, and not trapped at home.
Has anyone else had these thoughts?
Anon
My parents have been married almost 50 years; now retired. My mom made a comment about how the pandemic will determine whether they can stay married. My dad was not amused, but I think the fact that she would even make that joke drives home how not normal this is, as you say.
Anon
I think that you should listen to the concerns you’re having now, but don’t take any action on them until this is over (unless there are positive actions you can try, like home date night or something – basically non-drastic things). In some ways, the pandemic reveals existing fault lines in relationships, but in others, it puts new stresses on them that aren’t there the rest of the time.
anonshmanon
If anything, you could take this situation as an opportunity to figure out what it takes to keep you both happy. If separate hobbies or social circles are what both keeps you happy in your relationship, that’s good to know. You can then invest in those things to keep them going in retirement.
Anon
Wait, what? You’re questioning your marriage because you aren’t sure if you will like retirement? You base this on life during a pandemic when there are very few outlets for fun, creativity, outings, or community involvement, and when you are likely looking for a scapegoat for your stress.
I am saying this bluntly: you are borrowing trouble and may end up blowing up a perfectly functional marriage over nothing, and you’ll have no one to blame but yourself.
Anon
I know a couple who really struggled at first when the second-to-retire retired. But they are very happy now. It sounded like they had to reconfigure the relationship somewhat after so many years of a different lifestyle and also pick up new shared and separate activities.
My partner and I have been happy in lockdown, but we realized we basically did everything together beforehand too, and also enjoy time at home, so the lifestyle change has been less significant.
Anonymous
I mean, maybe? My husband and I have actually been doing better in quarantine now that we are spending more time together. We genuinely like spending time together, but in real life, commitments for work, etc. are sometimes so overwhelming that we don’t spend as much time together as we’d like. For you, I guess it kind of depends on what the issue is. If you don’t like spending time with your husband, that is probably not great.
Anonymous
Not parallel, but I have been trying to assess a 1-yr non-cohabitating relationship because my BF seems so incapable of handling change and discomfort. He has just shut down over not being able to go to bars and gyms. I don’t think that bodes well for the future. But I also recognize that there were other factors — temporary loss of job and loss of medical care as a result — at play that deeply compounded the problem. So I’ve decided not to decide. It isn’t as if I am meeting new options right now. But if I were, I would be pursuing them, at least for company and physical connection.
Senior Attorney
I think deciding not to decide right now is a sound plan.
Anonymous
I have appreciated your relationship advice here, so that gives me some confidence in my approach. Thanks!
anon
Caveat that I am not married but maybe ask yourself this — if a parent friend came to you stressed about being at home with her kids day in and day out, trying to work and home school, and said that she was starting to wonder if having kids was the right choice, would you expect that she was truly regretful and needing an escape plan (set aside child abandonment issues for the sake of the thought experiment) or that these are unusual and trying circumstances that do not represent reality?
Anonymous
What a collection of odd ideas. Men are children. But children aren’t disposable, so I guess men aren’t children.
Anon
Stop it.
anon
Are you capable of abstract thinking? Or… fully literate?
Anonymous
Yes, but “set aside child abandonment issues” … you’re not obligated to stay in a bad relationship. Just give your husband up for adoption or hire an au pair, I guess.
togetherness
My husband and I are similar in that we’ve always had busy individual lives. This has caused problems for us in the past though, because we end up missing each other or feeling neglected. So it’s always been a balance for us to make sure we’re giving each other enough time, while also allowing each other to do the things that we love. Quarantine means we’re doing everything together, and it’s actually really nice. We miss our individual hobbies for sure, but we’re in a great rhythm now that we just spend all of our time together. It took about a month for us to get on the same page with WFH schedules, going stir crazy without our hobbies, having alone time in the same place, etc., but now we like the new normal. So I would ask, do you like spending time with your husband? Do you have good communication? I think the poster above who suggested that understanding the balance of together time vs. separate time is a good thing to note, but assuming your current feelings translate to retirement is a recipe for trouble. I know that when we’re retired, we’ll do all sorts of hobbies together and separately, just like we do in non-pandemic times. We’ll just have an additional 8-10 hours each day to chase hobbies instead of work. And even WFH, we’re still apart for most of the day working. We’ve always enjoyed when we get to have lunch together on a weekday or when we can bail out early on a nice day to go for a walk. Now we get little doses of each other every day, and it’s nice.
anon
I don’t think life in the last few months is what retirement has to look like. My parents are retired, and they have built a wonderful life in retirement. They travel, volunteer, visit family, get together with friends, go to the gym, etc. I joke that they’re busier than I am. Normally, they spend some time together and some time apart. During Covid, my dad has been walking miles a day and half-marathons one day a week.
Anon
Yes. I love my husband and this isn’t a criticism of him but I’m an introvert and I just can’t spend this much time with other human beings even ones I love very much (kids being home from daycare doesn’t help). My job is officially remote forever, and my husband has always worked from home most of the time, so this is suddenly a very long term issue for us. I hope it will be better when the kids are back in daycare and I have the option to go work at a library or something, but I’m not sure. It will still be way more togetherness than we’re used to. Retirement doesn’t worry me so much because I expect to do a ton of travel and volunteer work. But facing the next 30+ years of being “officemates” with my husband does worry me.
Senior Attorney
Fortunately I am still crazy about my husband even with the quarantine. But two anecdotes (which I totally understand do not add up to data):
1. I used to be married to somebody who traveled a lot for work. Like, he was gone for weeks at a time, and probably 2/3 of the time altogether. Then he had a big project close to home and we had to live together full time. And we got divorced. The end.
2. My current husband (the one I am crazy about) is a divorce lawyer and his business has not dropped off during the shutdown and he is fully expecting a giant divorce boom when it’s over.
That said, I do think there’s a very good argument to be made about not borrowing trouble.
Anon
My husband and I have been closer than ever during quarantine and it’s reminding me why I married him. But we also had one of our biggest fights ever last week.
To me, it’s two sides of the same coin.
Anonymous
I’ve heard a lot of people suddenly realize they kind of hate their spouse. I’m guessing there were existing issues that are now impossible to ignore. If you’re in that boat, then I’m truly sorry. The best you can do is be polite to each other through this hard time. Reassess after this is over.
Anon
Graduation gift idea for a veterinarian? Mid 30s male who doesn’t drink if that makes a difference.
Anon
What are his plans after graduation?
Burned in FL
I got extremely sunburnt this past week, to the point where the burned skin is swollen and extremely painful. Any tips on easing the pain and swelling?
anon
Aloe. Ideally straight from the plant, but you can buy it.
Carmen Sandiego
Second the aloe recommendation above – especially if you put it in the fridge first. I would also say tylenol as well for the pain. On another note, are you on any medications? If so, you might want to look at their interactions with sunlight – I’m super pale and burn easily, but the only times I’ve ever been burned that badly to the point of swelling is when I was on a medication that (unbeknownst to me) interacted badly with sunlight, so that may be what is happening.
pugsnbourbon
+1 to all this, except I usually do Advil/ibuprofen if I burn.
Anon
Aloe has never made much difference to me. I’d call your doctor and ask about taking anti-inflammatories.
Marie
Echoing the recommendation for pure alone stored in the fridge. Other suggestions involving baths: Tepid bath with tea in it. Also tepid bath with aveeno oatmeal bath product (can be found in walgreens/cvs/grocery story). Either may soothe your skin. Once you get to the itchy stage, baking soda in the bath may help with that.
Drink lots of water, as your skin is severely dehydrated right now and you need to replenish.
Never
Messy, but plain yogurt right out of the fridge – slather on and sit in empty bath for about half an hour and then cool shower off. Helps with pain and swelling.
Never too many shoes...
Not sure what happened with the name above – it is me! Never too many shoes…
Anon
My redheaded brother gets sun poisoning and always takes ibuprofen for it.
Senior Attorney
+1
Hildy
Aloe, followed by a thick lotion on top + lots of water + pain meds. If really really painful, I also recommend soaking a towel in cool (not cold) water and laying it over the sunburned skin. Try to wear loose fitting clothes until it heals
Mal
Witch hazel helps with the inflammation.
Horse Crazy
My favorite summer sheets are the Target Threshold 300 Thread Count Ultra Soft sheets (https://www.target.com/p/300-thread-count-ultra-soft-fitted-sheet-threshold-153/-/A-13973172). I have 2 sets and they’re wonderful, but I don’t like most of the other colors they come in. Can anyone recommend similar sheets that aren’t outrageously more expensive? I need king size. Thank you!
Anonymous
I just bought the Target Threshold Linen Blend sheets and am a fan!
Anon
Ears open too: I love those sheets but they need better color options.
Anonymous
A question above raises this for me — for those of you that live in apartment, how much do you leave and how “risky” do you perceive it to be going through elevators, shared lobbies etc. Seems like people are all over the place. I have NYC friends who pretty much go out several times a day, any time they want. They think it’s NBD because they have a mask. I know others who will only leave once every week or two and time it so they leave during off peak hours to “guarantee” empty elevators and hallways, no one else going through the lobby doors. Where do you fall on this?
I’m kind of in the middle. I consolidate trips out if I can so I’m not running downstairs to check mail daily but wait a few days, pick up packages and take a quick walk or drive the same day but if I went out yesterday and it’s a gorgeous day today and I feel like being out, I’d probably go. How about you? I’m in an area that hits phase 2 today if it matters.
Anonymous
I’m in NYC and I leave all the time. In March and April I did one trip out a day. Now I walk multiple times a day and go out for takeout if groceries when I want. I wear a mask and wash my hands often and feel completely fine doing this.
Anon
Using an elevator or walking down a hallway is not going to spread the virus. I’ve definitely been staying in more, but not because I’m afraid to be in the lobby of my apartment building.
anon
I go out at least once a day and feel zero anxiety about elevators and passing people in the halls or lobby. I’m wearing a mask, washing my hands, etc. but stay at home orders have been lifted and I’m resuming my life accordingly.
Hildy
I don’t worry so much about elevators in my apartment building. They’re usually empty or maybe only one other person. Lots of people wait for the next one anyways or take the stairs. Nearly everyone in my building wears masks in common areas and our building isn’t so tall that elevator rides are long and there’s hand sanitizer right outside the elevator in the lobby. I may feel differently if I was in a super high rise where an elevator ride would be longer / there’d likely be more people in each elevator. I don’t get too fussed over exposure for limited amount of time.
Anonymous
Still in phase 1 here. Going outside everyday for exercise. Washing hands upon returning, always. Taking the stairs whenever possible. Minimizing other trips by getting mail once a week instead of everyday and taking the garbage out less often.
When making quick trips, touching external doors/the trash shute/etc with one hand and keeping the other hand clean for touching keys/handbag/interior doors/etc (rather than trying to sanitize those items all the time or just not worrying about it I guess). Then washing hands upon return.
Social distancing over wearing masks although I might get frowned upon for this.
Anonymous
I live downtown in a state that has been fairly open since May and is now seeing rising cases. And yet … I live in an apartment building and have a dog so I’m still going out multiple times a day, every day. Based on the exposure over time theory, I’m not worried about catching it based on some incidental exposure passing someone in the hallway or sharing an elevator for 30 seconds.
MJ
I lived in an 80 unit building in SF that had one elevator and one set of stairs and two entrances with two doors where you had to touch very intricate handles going in or out. I left for two months for quarantine and I just moved out, because to me, that was too much daily exposure. I now live in the Presidio where I can hike and walk without worrying about crowding. It is a much better fit for Corona-times. I can always move back to a lovely apartment building if need be.
Anon 2.0
What do you feel makes an outfit or look more polished? I am beginning a new role soon where I feel the need to look more polished than I do now. Jewelry isn’t really an option for me though as I have multiple metal allergies and can only wear gold. My budget doesn’t allow for the type of jewelry I can wear. I have some time to get things together as the role won’t really be in person until late summer.
Carmen Sandiego
How do you feel about brooches? They wouldn’t touch your skin, so your allergies wouldn’t be an issue. I wear them often, and always get compliments on them, so I would put that out there as one option. Another alternative could be silk scarves (I personally cannot deal with these as any extra fabric makes me super hot, but I think they look nice on other people!)
Otherwise, I would say making sure your clothes are well-tailored is the best thing you can do to look polished.
Anon
Can you wear gold plated? There’s plenty of affordable jewelry that is plated with real gold. If not, I suggest investing in a pair of stud earrings, like pearls, that you can wear with anything. Other than that, make sure your hair and makeup are on point.
AnonATL
The blog “Putting Me Together” has a few entries on what she calls a Completer Piece (her blog skews more casual, but the theory is the same). You basically top off a very simple outfit with a jacket, scarf, jewelry, or shoes that really elevate it. If jewelry is out for you, I’d consider some great jackets and shoes. In the summer, shoes are the most practical and bring a jacket for the office (assuming you do go back in) if it’s too hot on your commute.
I love her equation, because I’m very much a jeans and tshirt gal and a statement necklace/jacket/scarf is an easy way to look polished.
Anon
Make sure your shoes look good – current fashion, polished, no scuffs, etc. I don’t know why but a lot of executive look at shoes. And impeccable tailoring. I would just invest in a good uniform.
Sara
+1
June
Wearing colors, prints and cuts/styles that suit you. flip through head shots on a big law firms page and see who looks like they have it together. For example, many people consider black a go to, but it’s not flattering to everyone. Some people look more professional in a taupe or medium grey/navy suit. Same thing with cut of clothing. I look horrible in the standard suit jacket so I wear cropped and 3/4 sleeve blazers in traditional colors. if pencil skirts don’t suit your shape don’t feel like you need to wear them to be polished – wear a pant or a-line skirt in a conservative color that suits you.
Personal grooming also makes a huge difference – well cut hair in natural/maintained color, groomed brows, waxed upper lip, tidy nails and tasteful makeup. I can think of a professional I run into frequently who wears notably expensive clothes, gets highlights, carries expensive purse, wears makeup, expensive jewelry and gets her nails done…but she never looks great because her look is not cohesive and the colors/shapes she wears don’t suit her.
Anon
Ugh, no, dont’t look to lawyers for fashion advice! no offense, but y’all are a pretty fusty, conservative lot when it comes to office attire.
busybee
I think the primary focus should be on the clothes themselves. Ensure they fit well and are in good condition- no pilling, tiny stains, etc. Aside from that:
A scarf- the decorative kind, not the winter kind
Shoes that aren’t scuffed (I’m embarrassed of myself when I think of the scuffed heels I used to wear believing no one would notice)
Maybe a nice wristwatch?
Lana Del Raygun
I think it’s mostly to have things fit really well, and to have your hair/nails/makeup/brows/whatever neat and styled — not necessarily an actual manicure, and I definitely don’t mean your hair has to be straight and slicked back — just intentionally styled/your cuticles aren’t raggedy.
Anon
Agree- fit plus immaculate grooming is the biggest factor.
Splurge on handbag and wear classic pumps.
Coach Laura
I have metal allergies too but I have worn necklaces of pearls, beads, amethyst, amber and lapis lazuli, turquoise and rose quartz. Sometimes necklaces like this aren’t in fashion but a string of pearls is classic and polished. Depending on your coloring and your wardrobe, a lapis or amber necklace might be lovely. You can look for necklaces of a long enough length to go over your head without a clasp. I have also re-strung beads when the bead are on a necklace that has a clasp because the clasps are usually low-quality metal that makes me react and break out. So I restring the necklaces without the clasp. Some craft or bead stores have beading lessons or free sessions where you can use their tools and get advice.
You could also buy one expensive gold chain and then put cheaper charms or lockets on – I find that I only break out if the chain is poor quality. Plus the charm doesn’t touch my skin in the same way enough to cause an allergic reaction.
I also like scarves and think that they add polish. Sometimes scarves make people look out of fashion but that depends on a few things. Nordstrom advertises scarves as fashion items so they aren’t totally out of fashion.
Pins or brooches can be fun, especially if you get unique or even antique ones.
Coach Laura
https://shop.nordstrom.com/c/how-to-tie-a-scarf
Anonymous
I have metal allergies as well and have bought stone earrings with a 14K post and back. Lapis, malachite, that type of thing. They are not expensive but add polish. Moving forward as you replenish garments you like buy pieces that are one step more formal. That way over time you pull together a more senior staff look.
Anon
Does anyone have any insight into why Florida, Texas, Arizona are such a mess re:Covid case numbers and hospitalizations? I understand they reopened relatively early but my state has been open as long/longer and is doing much better. Do you think it can be chalked up to less willingness to wear masks? People in my area don’t seem very pro-mask but I can believe it’s even worse in these states. Hot, humid weather making outdoor recreation unpleasant and driving everyone inside? (Sort of like what happens in the north/Midwest in the winter?)
Anon
Florida = higher than average elderly population. Lots of nursing homes.
Additionally, the situation varies wildly by geography. In north Florida, it hasn’t really been an issue outside of some nursing/care homes, and some people are becoming complacent. Others work jobs where WFH isn’t an option and all there really is to do is get on with life or be unemployed. I get it – that would have been me if this happened 5 years ago. I feel really badly for my friends in Jax and hope the RNC doesn’t cause a ridiculous spike in cases.
Lily
They are all popular destinations for out-of-state tourists, so maybe they have gotten an influx of the virus (especially FL and AZ)?
Anonymous
Combo – early reopen, no real mask culture, plus 100 degree temps in esp in Az means everyone goes to the same newly open venues with AC and masks and social distance don’t matter. Lots of places opened but the Phoenix mayor was criticizing yesterday said they deemed any place that serves any food as a restaurant so they opened nightclubs with dance floors etc right off the bat. IDK if the people hitting up clubs during a pandemic prioritize social distance.
Anon
Republicans who believe it’s not a big deal and masks are a liberal conspiracy?
Anon
Reminding me of the chilling post from a reader in Alabama encountering “no masks allowed” signs in local businesses.
Anon
I’m from AL and haven’t see that, but I guess it doesn’t matter if there is a sign or not. No one is wearing masks.
Anon
The thing is that these states are not *that* Republican. They all lean Republican but are more swing state-y than a lot of other red states, especially AZ and FL. Even Texas is only light pink on CNN’s electoral college map for 2020. I’m the OP and my state is very dark red, yet seems to be doing a lot better, so that’s part of what was puzzling to me.
AFT
Swing state-y, but also non-rural. Since we know population density is a big factor, I wonder if it’s a combination of a republican approach to the virus in a relatively denser population? I’m generalizing here, but can’t think of other red states that are denser in population.
Anon
Ah that makes sense. My red state is less dense in population and our governor allowed tighter local restrictions so our one big city (which has a Democratic mayor) reopened later than the rest of the state.
Anon
As a Texan in a major city (a blue dot on a red map), just from personal observation, it is the lack of mask culture, the governor opening things up on a set timeline (i.e. every two weeks move to a new phase) with no regard for number of cases, the governor crippling cities being able to enforce any preventative measures (also f the governor), old people being too stubborn to change anything about their lives, and young people wanting to party. Here in Houston, the mayor and county judge (kind of like manager of the county) are begging people to social distance and wear masks but can’t do anything but warn.
Anonymous
Old sick stupid unhealthy people who refuse to follow any precautions.
Anonymous
I live in Arizona and we are a mess because the second the “safer at home” order was lifted, everyone went back to life as normal. That evening, bars and restaurants were packed with no masks and no social distancing. There were massive lines for nail and hair salons with people right next to each other for hours. It is honestly insane. I am surprised the numbers are not worse.
Anon
I have been in my current industry for the last 6 years. I have been looking to pivot out of this industry for the last year and have been applying to jobs, but haven’t had a lot of luck. I made connections in my company and was getting ready to be promoted into a position outside my industry right before COVID hit. I am worried about losing my current role and am trying to have a plan. Should I try to apply for roles within my skill set and delay getting out of my industry? Should I try to apply for a dream job although I haven’t had luck making progress? I worry about trying to be picky in this climate, but don’t want to back pedal either.