ByKat Hours Updated
Comments 409 Comments

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Kitty Dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. I always like Boden's dresses, and this red, machine washable option looks great. I like the contrast stitching details at the neckline, waist, and along the front and back of the dress. As I often do, I wish this one had pockets, but I suppose it would have ruined the line of the dress and stitching details to add them in. I would add a brooch to this, or perhaps a simple, round necklace like pearls or my Maya Brenner mini-initial necklace. The dress is $180, available in regular, petite and tall sizes 2-18, and also comes in navy. Kitty Textured Dress This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 12.2.24 (Happy Cyber Monday!! See our full sale listing here!)

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

409 Comments

  1. Thank you to all who weighed in on my question yesterday re: city hall to sign papers and larger wedding later.

    As I read through all the comments, whenever I got to the commenters clutching their pearls about LYING to your wedding guests, and it’s not a REAL wedding, I heard them all in the voice of the character of Angela from The Office, which made them hilarious to me.

    So call me Petty Pam, but after reading all of those, I kind of want to avoid telling people and have the big wedding, just to spite the Angelas of the world.

    1. “So call me Petty Pam, but after reading all of those, I kind of want to avoid telling people and have the big wedding, just to spite the Angelas of the world.”

      I mean you can do that but be prepared that you are really going to hurt some people when you lie to them. I would definitely come to a ‘wedding’ even if the couple had done a quick marriage ceremony prior to other reasons. But I would be super mad if close friends lied to me. Lying is not cool.

      1. Yup. You are either married or you’re not. I’ll happily celebrate your marriage/wedding with you at any time, but it’s bizarre to intentionally mislead people.

        I always wonder what would happen for the people who chose to do this end up calling off the wedding for some reason. Like do you just tell the state no we don’t have to divorce we werent really married.

        I don’t really care but this whole thing is weird to me. Get married whenever you want, celebrate however you want but I honestly don’t understand how you would consider yourself not married for an extended period of time despite being legally married just because you didn’t have a big party.

        1. I just find it weird that you’re so wound up about it (if you’re the same Anon that started getting defensive and aggressive in the comments yesterday). The theoretical idea of someone you don’t know getting married legally before a ceremony just isn’t that serious. Have some chamomile.

          1. I literally said I don’t care. The post yesterday asked if it was weird. I wouldn’t boycott or anything but I do think it’s very weird. I think it’s weird because I don’t know how you differentiate between being legally married and ceremonially(?) married. This poster and others can do whatever they want but it’s confusing and weird to me. I’d never tell friends doing this that I found it weird but yes I think it’s weird.

        2. It’s not misleading, it’s just not telling people proactively about your legal status – it’s a bit weird to lie if asked but who would suspect otherwise? Do you go around asking friends “so did you guys already get married” when receiving a wedding invite.

          OP you can’t win but for losing. The same people that clutch their pearls at this are the same ones who will complain about the etiquette of being invited to fly out and spend money to attend a courthouse wedding where bride and groom will be in jeans and they won’t be fed or do anything besides watches then complain again when you want to do an actual meaningful ceremony and celebration.

          1. Exactly this. Or the ones who will complain about being invited to a wedding celebration/reception when they know the people are already married “so why bother.”

      2. What about getting legally married afterwards? I am the poster below who had a non-legal ceremony abroad and then got legally married at the courthouse a few days later. Are we required to individually and sua sponte disclose to each guest the legality of the ceremony?

        1. In traditional Judaism, yes, you show the marriage “contract” or “ketuba” in Hebrew and the person conducting the ceremony (usually a Rabbi but not always) reads from it.
          I had an interfaith ceremony Jewish and non-Jewish and we did this, too.
          We had the same witnesses who signed the marriage license also sign the ketuba.

        2. I missed yesterday’s discussion, but my daughter didn’t get her legal marriage paperwork until a week or so after her Jewish wedding ceremony/big party and my elderly and very prim and proper mother made a big deal that her “real” anniversary is on a different date than the wedding. Everyone just needs to chill because it doesn’t really matter.

          1. yes, but you didn’t try to hide the legal paperwork part. That’s what people are objecting too.

    2. I was a witness at a friend’s city hall wedding the day before her “big” wedding. I think the guy officiating (a family friend) didn’t want to deal with the paperwork and asked them to do it this way (might have even been a last minute change by him). She wanted to keep it a secret which I thought was a little odd (becuase why? None of us are particularly religious or traditional)… but it was her day, so her rules :).

      1. I think getting legally married a few days before or after for legal/practical reasons is a bit different. It’s sort of like you’re making your best effort to have the wedding actually be a wedding but it couldn’t happen for whatever reasons (often reasons that are out of your control, like visas or inability to find an officiant who can make it legal in the right location). The OP said she plans to get married about a year before the big party, just to save money, and that’s very clearly a choice that’s entirely within her control. If you make that choice, you need to be honest with people so they know they’re attending a celebratory party, not a wedding, and that in the intervening year, you’re a married woman and not a bachelor e t t e (your friends may still want to throw you a girls’ getaway weekend and that’s great, but they should be fully informed about the situation).

    3. Some life advice: if you feel the need to use your wedding to spite people and lie to them, strongly reconsider whether you are mature enough to marry.

      I managed to be cordial to my abusive older sibling at my own wedding, and to thank all my siblings (who treated my wedding like some massive imposition) for their support. Why? I’m a grown up who doesn’t use weddings as a weapon.

      1. Oh, good lord. I’m not actually going to do that. I just found the near-shrieking outrage from the marriage traditionalists to be so ridiculous that it’s hard not to poke the bear.

        And when we talk about SmugMarrieds here, I suspect that there’s a big overlap in the Venn diagram.

        1. You’re the one who asked people if it was weird. Sorry we didn’t all just say “no no you’re perfect you do you” and now you’re the one back solely to stir up more drama!

        2. I’m the same person yesterday who went on a tear at the poster who was all snotty about how dating women need to work in themselves first, ie I am the Solidarity with Singles person.

          I’m not a Smug Married; you’re just immature. Please consider that such vindictiveness is not a good trait to bring into marriage.

        3. You know, it’s not actually hard to resist poking the bear. Just don’t do it. Pot stirring is annoying and contributes to degradation of the community here. You got a thread with 100 comments yesterday full of drama if you want to relive it.

          1. Pot stirring is degrading the community! thank you for saying this–i haven trying to articulate what has happened to this site that used to be such a good place for nuanced communication. Pot stirring and black-and-white thinking.

        4. I was feeling my oats yesterday and wanted to ask all the pearl clutchers but didn’t: if you believe you’re witnessing the exact moment of marriage between your beloved friends and family in the ceremony, are you not also pissed that you’re not invited to a viewing party for the consummation later that night or next morning? According to some religious traditions, you’re not fully married until it’s consummated….
          I restrained myself, though. I didn’t ask.

          3. Also, the op asked a question to a broad swath of people. If people here feel that it’s not a “real marriage ceremony” (or whatever), some of the guests will too even if they don’t tell her. She can feel free to ignore- which imho ignoring advice/critics you don’t agree with is an important part of being in a successful marriage and eventually having kids (if they do)… but that may still be what a few people think.

          4. Actually, I didn’t. Perhaps someone did, I’m not thoroughly reading every comment of this ridiculous topic.

          5. Nope, because they’re not lying to me and telling me I witnessed the consummation when in fact I didn’t. What part of “it’s about the deception” don’t you get?

        1. Yeah I agree with this. Seems like a very immature response. Anyone who can’t appreciate the difference between telling your guests the TRUTHFUL “surprise! We’re married! Celebrate with us on X date!” and “We’re inviting you to our wedding ceremony and reception” is… being willfully obtuse IMHO.

        2. Very serious. The OP admits that she wants to deliberately lie to people about her wedding to spite them.

          If you feel the need to behave that way, you have BIG issues. If you cannot treat your wedding guests, no matter how much you disagree with their behaviour, like adults and like guests, you have BIG issues.

        3. I think the OP is being sarcastic and she should be b/c some of the pearl clutching here is just ridiculous.

      3. Yes, I think the original OP is being petty. Women who are lucky enough to find a decent guy to marry should be happy, not petty. Morover, marrage should be a joyous occasion and one where truth should govern. Outing people who are supposed to be friends is NOT cool, irregardeless of motives for doing so. Ptooey on anyone who thinks differently.

        On another note, there is an excellent article in the Harvard Business Review that I commend to the HIVE.
        called Managers Can’t Be Great Coaches All By Themselves. If you have web access, look at this link, as we managers have to learn how to motivate and coach our employees so that they can be as high performers as we are:

        https://exed-hbs-form.secure.force.com/Inquiry/WebForm?fid=lgn&program=CL00296&lb=fy19_gmp_eblast_dedicated

        Dad is a Harvard man and he makes me read these b/c he wants me to be as smart as I can be, even tho he knows I will not be as smart as he is. I do encourage the HIVE to read this and we can all talk about it if Kat agrees! YAY!!

    4. Yeah, I didn’t get to weigh in, but I had a very small wedding abroad and had a friend (who was not ordained) officiate. We did not legally get married abroad because it was a huge hassle and extra expense. We popped into the local courthouse 10 days later when we got back to get officially married by a judge- we did not bring anyone else because it was just paperwork. Apparently we lied to everyone at our wedding and should be drawn and quartered.

    5. My very best friend in the whole wide world got legally married before her wedding. I was not invited to the legal ceremony and didn’t even find out about it until about a month later (2ish months before her planned wedding). I did not care. I was proud of her for doing what was best for her and her husband.

      I also recently found out that a wedding we went to last September was not the couple’s legal wedding and they had been legally married for about a year at that point. I did not care. I was happy the couple was able to do what was best for them.

      I accidentally did not get married at my wedding. In the day of craziness, we forgot to bring the papers to the venue so we ended up doing the legal stuff at our apartment later in the evening with just our officiant and her husband.

      All this said, I really don’t understand why anyone gets upset about it not being a “real” wedding. There are so many valid reasons to do the legal bit before the ceremony and none of them are anyone’s business but the couple. There are so many better things for people to put emotional energy into than worrying about someone else’s life decisions.

      1. +1.
        I suspect that the people who get angry about it not being “real” are the same people who are grouchy that they *have to* spend thousands of dollars to attend weddings, and pre-parties, and etc….they can just not go, right? That’s an option? The world will keep spinning, yes?

        1. I can only speak for myself, but no. I enjoy spending money to attend weddings (and showers, bach parties etc.) I would still be upset if I found out a friend deceived me and I was spending all that time and money celebrating a “bride to be” who was in fact already married.

        2. Speaking for myself, no.

          But I am more strident on this point after getting married. Since I moved shortly before my wedding, almost every single one of my friends came in from out of town. I worked hard to ensure that everyone knew the plans for the weekend, included a woman I had never even met in my bach party (which I planned for and paid for myself), made it as child friendly as possible, and really just wanted people to know what to expect. It was so wonderful that so many if my friends got on a plane to see me get married, and bding upfront and helpful was the best way to showy deep, deep appreciation.

      2. I don’t think it’s surprising that people don’t want their friends to lie to them. Like you don’t need to make a big announcement but hiding something for a year isn’t a way honest with people who care about you.

        1. Yup. I feel like especially in OPs situation. I’d feel differently if people got married a few days before for x or y reason. To be married for a year and not tell anyone is hurtful. Getting married is a huge life event, I want to congratulate you! Not sharing for such an extended period of time feels like deliberately hiding an important life event

          1. Very loaded question: we all are in agreement that pursuing married people is bad and adultery is bad. Some may feel less strident about pursuing someone who is engaged.

            Plenty of married people do not wear wedding rings, but most everyone will use the terms husband, wife, and spouse.

            So, when we are talking about more than a week or so of discrepancy between the civil ceremony and the party, what is the plan? Get married in a civil ceremony and spend a year referring to your legal spouse as a fiance(e)? Not wear a wedding ring that will be worn after the big party? Is it then less sketchy when someone hits on the legally married spouse with no ring who doesn’t talk about being married?

            I didn’t change my last name, so no judgement (but a big high five) to women who keep their names, but many spouses make different choices. Would you not change your last names until after the party, which can have legal ramifications depending on your state? Would you change your name then, and hide the name change?

            Maybe that’s not a big deal for you, which is your prerogative!! But being officially but not socially married will come with its own issues.

          2. For anon at 12:16, I don’t see how this is a problem. I would refer to him as “my partner” as I’ve been doing for the past 5 years since we moved in together, or “Shawn” (his actual name). Even after a theoretical big ceremony, I don’t think that would change.

    6. I did not understand all the pearl clutching and people getting so offended about being lied to. It’s none of my business that you had a courthouse wedding to legally get married. I will show up to your wedding ceremony and be happy to celebrate your union regardless of what happened before.

      I guess you could somehow circulate the news that you had a courthouse wedding prior to the ceremony. Personally I wouldn’t care either way. But maybe it would help some people not get their feelings hurt.

    7. I was in the have whatever wedding you want camp and I was also surprised at the vitriol on the other side. But I really think a later poster may have been right – it was one or two super uptight posters all over that thread telling you they would not attend unless it was to witness the exact moment of your legal marriage (I suppose they want to be there to witness the wedding night deflowering too?) and would end a friendship with you over this.

      Seriously, you do you! And congratulations.

      1. If you feel the need to compare watching the ceremony to watching the wedding night activities, you’re being willfully obtuse.

        If you can’t understand that when people are shelling out thousands of dollars to travel to someone’s wedding, they deserve to know if they area watching a reenactment, you’re willfully obtuse.

        1. Serioulsy? Watching a reenactment? Having a big wedding ceremony with flowers, bridesmaids, etc is a reenactment of two people standing in front of a judge in a courthouse and signing some papers? This is such a weird way to think of things.

          2. Yes, because the part that makes it special is the part wherein the couple actually gets married.

            You are inadvertently hitting on the big issue: wanting a big special Look At Me Princess Party, without the crucial element of it being the actual wedding. If that’s what you want, you do you, but just tell your guests that you are hosting a reception for a wedding that already took place.

          3. I have commented here for two years and people have returned to say that they liked my advice, whether it be about wrenches for presents or handling challenging family members.

            Instead of calling me names, try growing up and learning to respectfully engage with people who disagree with you. Failing to do so is trolling.

          4. I don’t think you know what tr0lling means, Anon at 11:33. Trolling is not expressing an opinion you disagree with, even if you think it’s needlessly judgmental or uptight. Trolling means making insincere controversial comments (often completely off-topic) for the sake of instigating a fight. If her beliefs are sincerely held and she’s answering the question that was asked, she’s not a tr0ll, no matter how judgy you think she’s being.

      2. I thought it was interesting that some people thought the legal part as the wedding and some thought the ceremonial part.

        I’m not married, but tbh I consider the ceremony to be the wedding. To me, a wedding is ceremonial (and very serious). I’m not terribly religious, but I’m pretty spiritual and so the ceremonial aspect is what feels wedding to me. Clearly, the legal part is important and is what makes you married but isn’t necessarily a wedding.

      3. This is definitely just one person commenting a bunch of times. I am assuming she’s been hurt by a friend who lied about this, or something.

        1. Not the anon you’re responding to but I agree with the anon you’re responding to so there are at least two of us

    8. Omg why are you dragging this drama up again? You want to lie to your friends knowing at least some people might be really hurt by that?

    9. Well, good for you, OP. *eyeroll*

      I think the later commenters were overly dramatic about refusing to attend because it wasn’t a “real” wedding or not paying just to come to a celebration, but your post asked if it was “weird” to pretend to get married when you’re already married. It IS weird – and so is your post today.

      1. +1 and this is now just intentionally stirring the pot. Some people seem to really care about this, most people seem to not care at all and another set thinks it’s weird. Do what you want with that information.

        1. Agreed. This post is pointless tr0lling (and I generally agree that people should do whatever they want).

    11. OP, I’m the non-traditional military spouse from yesterday. You’re never going to change the pearl clutchers’ minds. They think it’s lying while we clearly do not and that is that. Don’t waste any time or energy on worrying what others think.

      1. I am one of the “pearl clinchers“ and I would feel drastically different about it if there was a reason besides saving a little money this year. I would understand if it was because one person was called up for a military deployment, or there was visa issues, or a parent was sick, or …. so many other reasons. The fact that the OP frame this solely as a way to save a little money this year. Do you know a great way to save money? Don’t we have a big ceremony when you don’t actually care about your friends and family seen you enter into the marriage commitment

        2. But really, the only reason you know this is because OP put that in her post. If she were to tell friends and family beforehand that she was already married, that part might not come out. So…. I am not quite clear what you are mad about. The “lying” part or the “saving money” part.

    12. I was one of the people yesterday who thought it was weird, but whatever, you do you (and, no, it was not just one person against it). I think it’s weird because I think the legal commitment is the point of marriage. And If you don’t care about me seeing you enter into that just so you can save a little money on health insurance this year, why should I want to spend thousands of dollars to celebrate a marriage and commitment that happened over a year ago? Either you desired to have people see you entering that commitment or you don’t, which is perfectly fine but then you don’t get a pretty ceremony . But your desire to be mean to people you supposedly love by intentionally lying to him just confirms to me that that we disagre about core values

    13. I’m tired of the drama, but I’m also kind of fascinated by the perspectives on this. It’s making me think of clandestine marriage, the Protestant Reformation, and the council of Trent, in addition to more contemporary issues of separation of church and state, freedom of religion, and marriage equality. Maybe I’m just projecting that different philosophies about the ideal relationship between law, religion, and the family are at play here, but to me it seems so different to prioritize legal status vs. the ceremony.

      1. I guess I don’t really care that much about legal status just for the sake of legal status and if someone gets married at the courthouse right before or after (or forgets to turn in the paperwork for a week or something like that), I don’t care. But if you get married for tax reasons and then continue acting single for a year, that feels weird to me. You want to be married to get a significant benefit from the government, so shouldn’t you be upfront with people that you’re married? It’s not “just paperwork” if you’re benefiting from it a very real and significant way (which OP said is the case with her). It doesn’t feel that much different than having a ‘wedding’ but never getting legally married so you can avoid a marriage tax penalty and I think way more people would be pearl-clutchy about that.

        1. +1. I think it’s exactly like having a big wedding and then not filing the legal paperwork to avoid the tax consequences. And I think each are equally weird and may cause me to look at my friends differently

        2. My take is that it just seems inconsistent to get married substantially before your wedding– not simply paper work delays. It’s inconsistent/off-putting to ask your friends to celebrate something that’s ostensibly important when you hid that important thing from your friends so that you could save cash. Getting married is either an important legal covenant with important social implications to you or it’s not. If it’s an important legal covenant with important social conventions, it follows that you invite people to celebrate that and you hold out to the world that you’re married. Most people go to weddings knowing that they’re doing this to celebrate something that is important– that’s why we’re celebrating, traveling, buying you stuff. That’s why you’re spending thousands on a party. Because it’s important. When you get married a year early to save cash but don’t invite anyone to celebrate and keep it secret, then it doesn’t seem like you agree that marriage is an important legal covenant with social implications (which is not per se wrong.) If it was, why did you hide it? However, when you later throw a big old party where guests are supposed to travel to celebrate you and buy you stuff from Restoration Hardware, all of the sudden you’re acting like marriage is an important legal covenant with social implications. It’s the inconsistency that’s jarring and that’s why the lying seems to be the rub for lots of people, because guests are being asked to honor something important but aren’t seeing it occur and it was kept from them–the couple didn’t treat it as important when they got married in secret. Only now when it’s time for partying/insta/presents.

          If you don’t think marriage is an important social and legal covenant but you just want a party that can easily slide into “I want my Magic Princess Party” day territory real fast. (Irrespective of whether you get married a year before or not.)

          All of this changes for me if the wedding happened earlier because of something like terminal illness in a family member, deployment, immigration, health care, esp. if it wasn’t kept hush-hush.

          2. +1 to anon at 1:46. This sums up my feelings better than I could articulate above (I’m the poster that said early in the thread I thought it was weird/confusing to separate legally married and ceremonially married)

          3. I did not read or participate in yesterday’s discuss. I largely agree with this comment. To me, it doesn’t matter if someone got married before the ceremony or what their reasons were for getting married earlier, it’s the hiding it part that seems weird. It says to me that either my friend is okay with lying to a large group of her friends and family about whether she’s married or that my friend doesn’t even see something like this as dishonest. Either way, my friend and I have very different values and outlooks on life. If I didn’t already know that, finding out about the wedding thing would make me realize it. I wouldn’t be hurt or offended, because it’s not about me, but it would change how I think about my friend.

    14. I’ve had 3 friends do this for various reasons.

      Scenario 1: done “in secret” 9 months before actual wedding for benefits purposes (military housing, among others). Only the witnesses knew- not even the parents. One witness was my BFF so she told me (she’s…not a good secret keeper). They invited everyone to the wedding and pretended it was the actual wedding. They told their JP (who was a friend that got ordained for the purpose) what was going on.

      I found the whole thing very weird and sneaky. Like, even grandma didn’t know?

      The second one was for visa reasons. They got married at the courthouse with parents only present. Took a couple beautiful photos and shared them. Then had the big fat euro
      Wedding several months after. It was awesome. Nobody felt lied, or misled, and 100% of the guests showed up. It was like having a private ceremony and a bag after party – which some people do!

      The 3rd scenario was also “secret” and for benefits. Except the secret got out to family members who Threw A Fit (mom, grandma, etc- not cousins!). There was so much drama, parents ended up not paying for the wedding because they were so hurt they were being lied to/misled.

      So, I would highly highly recommed involving immediate family in the actual wedding, or say “we eloped!” And have the party later.

      I also have friends that eloped to city hall, did beautiful photos, and had The Party at their 10 year anniversary. Family was miffednbut
      Quickly got over it (messy family situation with many divorces, which is why eloping was attractive in the first place).

      1. I feel like half the secrecy is normally done for various grandmother’s sakes. I grew up Catholic, am atheist, married a Jewish guy, outside in a civil celebratory ceremony…. and my mom was insistent on not being totally upfront with my very old grandmother (WHO WAS LITERALLY THERE AND COULD SEE WE WERE NOT AT A CHURCH BEING MARRIED BY A PRIEST, even being part deaf/blind). I told my mom I would not participate in her untruths, but whatevs- had bigger fish to fry and I’m not going to change my mid 60’s mom. I would have gotten married in court a year before for tax reasons, and would not have hidden this either, but my husband felt like some of you, that it’s not being totally truthful, and to him being honest to his values was more important than the few thousand we would have saved in taxes– and that’s the person I respect and love for so many reasons, including this, so decided it was worth waiting.

    15. I refrained from chiming in yesterday, but for what it’s worth, at least in my jurisdiction it’s unethical for a judge to preside over a wedding ceremony if the couple is already legally married, unless full disclosure is made to those present. In fact, in the My State Judicial Conduct Handbook it’s referred to as a “Mock Ceremony:”

      “Is it proper for a judge to perform a mock ceremony if, for example, the parties do not have a license, were secretly married elsewhere, or want to renew their vows?

      “A judge must ‘act at all times in a manner that promotes public confidence in the integrity . . . of the judiciary.’ If the judge decides to perform a ceremony in which a marriage is not being officially solemnized, the judge must disclose the relevant facts (either the lack of a license or that the parties are already married) to all those attending and explain that no actual wedding or solemnization will be legally taking place. . . . For the judge not to inform those in attendance that it is only a mock ceremony (i.e. one in which the marriage is not being solemnized) may be seen as demeaning to the judicial office. In addition, the judge should inquire into the reason . . . for secrecy, to avoid becoming an unwitting party to a fraud.

      “In sum, a judge should not undertake any act that misleads others, including performance of a mock ceremony. If the mock ceremony is performed in a way that makes clear that the judge is not solemnizing the marriage, the judge may participate and may wear his or her judicial robe.”

      So count the judicial ethics powers that be among the pearl-clutchers.

        1. Nice try.

          Appeal to authority is about an unrelated authority. A state’s judicial conduct code is absolutely relevant to this issue. It’s not a fallacy just because you didn’t like it.

          1. Oh, give me a break. If you want to hide behind the judicial conduct code to support your right to be nasty to your friends/family about whether you were able to personally witness a couple’s legal contract signing, go right ahead, but don’t pretend that creates some sort of universal standard on how individuals should feel on this issue.

        1. Really? I’d say at least 1/4 of the weddings I’ve attended were officiated by judges. It’s pretty common for non-religious couples to get married by a judge.

    16. im a millenial (older) and dngaf when you get legally married and if that is part of the actual ceremony or whatever. ive been to at least 5 weddings (out of…30ish?) where friends have had to get legally married for health insurance, for immigration, bc a family member was ill, because it was convenient to not have to sign the papers the exact day of… and no one cared! no one! it’s literally a signature. how does that actually matter?

      1. But you knew, which means they probably weren’t lying. It’s my impression that most of the people who find this weird or offensive are focusing on the lying part, not the having a separate ceremony part.

    17. I was at a wedding where the couple at their post-wedding brunch revealed they’d been secretly married for a year. The groom’s mom burst out in tears in front of everyone. She was surprised and hurt that she hadn’t been there for the “real” wedding.

      1. I mean that just seems absurdly dumb on the part of the couple and like they really wanted some soap opera drama. I hope this is a joke.

        1. It seems absurdly dumb that the mother would burst into tears because she missed a signature. I feel bad for the bride.

          1. Huh? regardless of where you stand on this whole thing I have trouble feeling bad for a couple who it sounds like made a “gotcha” announcement to a large group of people and then were surprised that someone reacted badly. In any event, I don’t get why people seem to be digging in on people being against this as being “absurd”. You don’t care about it, that doesn’t mean others aren’t entitled to their own opinions/feelings.

          2. The bride wanted it both ways.

            She wanted all the benefits of people thinking they were watching her wedding, believing it to be a unique and special event, AND all the benefits of “marriage is just a piece of paper.”

          4. Even if you think being upset about this is ridiculous I think this couple invited drama by announcing in this way.

      2. This is really dumb of the bride and groom. It really isn’t a problem unless you make it one by announcing it to your guests and making everyone feel weird.

    18. This entire conversation is so goofy. I have immigrant parents who wanted to do a ceremony in their home country and were very hung up on having their event be the “first” event of our marriage, and so we could not get married (i.e. have our own domestic wedding for family and friends) last year. Because of this delay, we went to the courthouse before the end of the year for, yes, tax purposes, and also so that we had a little something for ourselves before all the big wedding to-dos started (parents were fine with this). However, our domestic wedding for our close family and friends is where we think of ourselves as “coming out to society” as husband and wife. If those friends and family (who, by the way, we threw this wedding for – we would have been perfectly fine with a little elopement) begrudged us the legal paperwork rather than being happy to celebrate with us, I would happily tell them to eff off.

      TLDR: we’re throwing a party SO THAT our friends and family who have been dropping hints about attending our wedding forever have a nice shindig to attend, and if they’re petty enough to get their pants in a bunch that they didn’t get to see us sign paperwork, well, too bad, so sad.

    19. I think those people will only be happy if we go all Republic of Gilead and require mass wedding ceremonies between strangers after the Prayvaganza.

        1. Given current trends, I should start stockpiling alcohol so I can be pickled nicely all of the hours before I get shipped off to The Colonies.

          1. Related: I think there is something about weddings that just makes some people want to make up drama.

            One of my bridesmaids was a right proper pill about everything and only apologized years later.

            My aunt decided she wanted to alert all the old family members that Mr. Seventh and I were living in sin before marriage because that was A Big Family Problem and I shouldn’t be doing that because it’s un-Christian and sets a bad example.

    20. Last year, I went to the wedding of a 20-something friend of my son’s, white dress, flowers, catered dinner etc. The mother and father of the son and I had spent a lot of time on soccer fields, at PTA events etc., and I was happy to help them celebrate. Right before the ceremony started, I learned that the son and his bride had had an “oops” baby while still in college the year before and the wedding was in the summer after the birth. As I watched the ceremony where the fathers of the bride and groom were the officiants, it occurred to me that the wedding was not a “real” wedding and that they had already married before the birth of the baby and I confirmed that afterwards.

      Did I feel cheated or lied to? No, I really believed that I was part of the community wishing the bride and groom well and giving them the ceremony that the groom’s mother really wanted. And being old-fashioned, I think my friend – the groom’s mother – was embarrassed to have the birth occur before the wedding. I think if I’d been a gossiping person (or checked the son’s instagram), I would have found out before the wedding and would have known before arriving for the ceremony. But either way I would have been happy to attend.

      To the OP, I would suggest not lying and tell people the story. You don’t have much to loose.

    21. Actual data point here and not snark- I got married 6 months before my wedding ceremony/reception. We eloped in Barcelona. We got married in the states 6 months later. Officiant just never technically signed a license, since we already had one. I told no one. It’s been 3 years and my husband and I are the only ones who know. We love it. Have no desire to tell anyone else. And guess what? If we had told, and my guests were offended, I’d tell them not to come. This story is to say, you do you, and be happy. If you pull it off- no one will know you got married early.

      1. Serious question (not trying to snark), why did you chose to have two ceremonies/elope then do a big wedding?

      2. Me too! I got married exactly one year before our wedding ceremony so that I could have health insurance through my husband’s employer while I was still in law school. We love that we have this special romantic secret and have never told anyone else (witness was a random person we grabbed of the street). We lived in different states when I was in law school, so our big wedding with family after I graduated was really the start of our married life together.

    22. I’m really surprised by the opposition to this idea, which I think is cray.
      Many people I know have done this because they had to have quick legal marriages for immigration, health insurance, and other legal reasons, but they wanted to have a religious ceremony, which for them and their families, was the real wedding. Literally nobody thought anything of it, and they didn’t do any weird announcement like “this isn’t a real wedding because we already signed the papers…”

      I think this is a very common thing to do and I wouldn’t give it a second thought. Go for it.
      The people who are going to think this is weird or “lying” and going to find something to pearl-clutch over so who cares if it’s this (if they ever find out) or the color of your table-runners.

  2. Several of you have recently mentioned vitamins and supplements that help you with moods, etc. Talk to me about that. I’ve started popping a slow-release multi-B every day. Are there others I should consider? Any particular brands you trust, or sources I should or shouldn’t buy from? Vitamins are so hard to evaluate, since the FDA doesn’t really tell you much useful about them.

    1. FDA doesn’t tell you much about them because Congress told them to back off from dietary supplements back in the 1990s. So, the manufacturers are mostly unregulated (FDA could probably take them to court if proven to be contaminated). Because Congress.

      I think some brands have been going with a USP (US Pharmacopoeia) certification – you might look at those.

    3. St. John’s wart is as helpful to me as low-dose prozac for anxiety, depression and intrusive thoughts. I get it at trader joe’s and take it as needed. FWIW, my husband works at the fda and rolls his eyes a bit at me- but even if it is a placebo affect, it works for me.

      1. OP: be aware that SJW is believed to reduce the effectiveness of hormonal birth control, so you should use non-hormonal backup if you’re taking it. In fact, in general, it’s a good idea to try check potential interactions with supplements in the same way you’d check them for pharmaceuticals. People often don’t think about that.

        Finally, I’m about to start taking full-spectrum CBD for sleep issues that are likely anxiety related; we’ll see how that goes.

        1. Can you report back on how this works for you/which one you use? There are so many options out there and I have no idea where to start. It’s expensive to order a bunch to trial. Yes, I understand that each person will react differently, but it’s nice to have a starting point from someone with experience!

          1. Sure thing. I’m going to try Floyd’s of Leadville 25 mg to start – that’s based on talking with a bunch of friends who used CBD. We’ll see if it seems to help!

        2. Yes, good call- I usually mention this (even though I don’t take hbc) and forgot to this time around.

      2. St John’s wort interacts with a large number of drugs, since it upregulates an enzyme that metabolizes many drugs. This can make your hormonal birth control ineffective and also reduce the efficacy of a large number of other drugs.

    4. For recommendations, I’ve used the website Labdoor to sift through some of the actual ingredients in the products. I take Vitamin B, Vitamin D+calcium comppund, Antarctic Krill Oil, magnesium (maybe placebo effect, but magnesium + vitamin B works better for me than getting a round of IV vitamin fluids influx for fatigue), and the occasional iron supplement (because if I’m short on breath or dizzy, it’s usually been due to iron deficiency anemia).

  3. Hi, for anxiety, low mood, I find the following helps tremendously: Vitamin D3, Magnesium, and Vitamin C. I think I was deficient in D – as soon as I started taking it I felt much better and started sleeping better – you have to take the D3 and Mag together – I take 10,000 IU of D3 and 400 milligrams of Mag each day – take D with 200 Mag in the morning with some fat (peanut butter or something) and 200 Mag at night before bed…I didn’t have debilitating anxiety or depression but I had chronic worry and low mood…these along with health diet, lots of exercise and rest – I feel that I can handle anything

    1. Anon here again…you have to be consistent with all of this as part of self care…I found that cutting back on the Vitamin D or the Mag had an impact – the anxiety/worry started to creep back in….the Vitamin D takes time to build up in your system…..especially if you are deficient, so you have to take it every day. I also stay away from processed foods and alcohol.

  4. Any reccs for lightweight duffle bags that can withstand being luggage checked? But also fold into nothing (for packing in my luggage than using for taking goodies home)? Would prefer if they aren’t insanely expensive because I want to get a couple.

    1. My bf got some cheap, small duffel bags on Amazon that have held up well for lots of trips as carry-on bags. They’re not the highest quality (as you would guess from the price), but I think they would hold up being checked.
      DALIX 14″ Small Duffle Bag Two Toned Gym Travel Bag and Everest 16-Inch Round Duffel, Navy, One Size

    2. I’ve used a number of various bags for checked luggage with no issues. One important tip would be to remove or tighten any longer straps when checking. This way it won’t get caught on things or be used to fling the bag. If the shorter straps don’t have a flap to hold them together put something around them so they stay together instead of potentially having a heavy duffel picked up by only one strap with weight unevenly distributed.

    3. Look on ebags – I have gotten some great deals there and there are usually plenty of reviews.

  5. On yesterday’s post about the person whose husband has ADHD, someone commented along the lines of “that thing autistic people do where they bond by telling you a story that relates to your story.”

    So I have ADHD and while never diagnosed as autistic, when I read about it, I certainly have some autistic tendencies.

    This comment really stuck out to me because I am known as the person that always has stories and people claim to love my stories but at the same time I worry that this is a known “trait” of people like me.

    Does it not bond two people to share stories of a shared experience? I don’t mean like I know what you are going through with your dad dying because my dog died but more like person one tells a story about an awkward moment in court. I say I can relate and share a similar awkward moment in court. No? What is wrong with this, assuming I don’t interrupt and still ask a couple follow up questions about their experience?

    1. This comment really struck me as well because I do this. Recently I’ve been trying to step on the impulse to tell my story and instead try to display empathy. Like “You must have been …”, “I bet that was really …”. It’s hard though.

    2. Yeah I think it’s the opposite? Autistic people generally have trouble empathizing and relating to others. I know several autistic people and none of them would do this.

      1. +1 – Maybe it’s something people with autism learn how to do, but I don’t think it’s a trait unique to autistic people. It’s just a conversational style some people have that’s not unique to some underlying mental issue.

        1. +1 to it being a learned trait. A guy in my office seems to have learned to ask people how their weekend was (I’m afraid he may have decided to copy me, actually) but uses it as a launching pad to talk about what he wants to talk about.

          Seriously, if it’s a Thursday and I see Jason* walking toward me in the hall, I brace myself for a “how was your weekend?” And then getting interrupted over my “fine” to hear some breathless monologue about whatever he’s thinking about at the moment.

          *name changed

    3. All the adhd/autism stuff describes yesterday basically describes the entire way my family communicates. I’m not sure all of it is problematic and actually, I think part of it is just cultural in our case…

      1. It’s 100% how my boss and I communicate but we both have ADHD. It’s hysterical because we can keep track of multiple conversations at once, know where the other person is going before a sentence is finished and we need to be hyper aware of it or the other people in the room will be lost. It certainly helps us manage a high volume case load though.

    4. Everyone does that. Seriously. Don’t worry about it. If anything, the aspies I know (and i know a lot) will chime in or talk over you with their story, but it will be unrelated as far as you can tell – maybe there’s some relationship in their mind, but it’s not necessarily obvious.

    5. Yes, I think it bonds people to share stories of a shared experience but it may not be appropriate in every circumstance. Sometimes a person may just want to vent or share their feelings and have someone say “I’m sorry for what you’re going through” without hearing about your similar situation.

      1. +1 – I think the commenter was saying that it might be hard for autistic people to pick up on the cue that one or the other type of feedback is needed, but I know both autistic and non-autistic people who struggle with these types of cues, so.

        1. Right, I agree that many people struggle with the cues. I know I do and I don’t have any advice on how to pick up on those exactly. I guess by default maybe say less to begin with.

        2. This. I used to work with someone who had a particular skill that made everyone come to them with certain tasks, but you could only offload the task by listening to an anecdote from co-worker’s life. Every single time. I’m sure co-worker thought this was social bonding, but clearly didn’t pick up cues that sometimes I wanted to move on. Whether this was autistic or not, shrug.

    6. I don’t think it’s always wrong at all. But if every response to someone else’s story is “ok here’s my story”, I don’t think it makes you a very good listener. Try asking follow up questions, or just every third time you want to tell a story, don’t. And see how the conversation flows.

      1. I agree – I think it makes the “listener” the center of attention. Friend came to you because she wanted your empathy, but instead you just turned the conversation back around to revolve around you and your stories. We’re all guilty of it, but a friend who does this to me all the time made me sensitive to it. I’ve tried to do it much less – really only when I think it will truly help the other person feel better and not steal focus/thunder.

    7. I think there’s a reason why it was labelled an autistic trait, but it’s not necessarily accurate. As someone who seems autistic in a lot of ways (I’m not as far as I’m aware, but I was a poorly socialized homeschooler and that manifests pretty similarly), I try to pay attention to how other people socialize and imitate it. Expressing empathy is difficult and nuanced. So seeing that someone else empathized by sharing a story can lead someone to try to do the same thing. But when misapplied, it can look seem out of place and insensitive.

      Empathizing with relatable stories is normal, but typically only sticks out when it’s not done well. I think it’s important to keep it short, and wrap it up with emphasis on why it relates to your friend’s story, and then drop it. The worst thing to happen is when your story turns into your friend feeling like they have to support you, and that their story has just become a platform for you to vent. If that can be avoided, it’s usually okay to share stories, in my opinion.

  6. Can I wear a black dress to a wedding? It’s this weekend, during the daytime, and at a restaurant. If so, can anyone recommend pantyhose that aren’t noticeable? I usually wear black tights with dresses in the winter, but I think that would be too much.

    1. Yes. I have worn black to multiple weddings. It’s fine.

      I would wear sheer nude-to-you hose.

    2. Can you add a topper or wrap in a pastel color or cream and do a light colored or metallic shoe?

    3. I wear black dresses to weddings all the time. But I think this is regional (I’m in NYC). I have friends from the South who are horrified by the thought of wearing black to a wedding.

      1. I’m that friend, but I apply the rule only to me, not to others. I would recommend fun shoes and a bright wrap with the dress, both to add some color and because you seem concerned that it’ll be cold, but if anyone is offended by you wearing black then they’re just ridiculous.

    4. You can wear black but try to lighten it up in some way – maybe a colorful or light colored wrap. Definitely no black tights.

      I am also not giving advice for the south. I’m on the west coast.

    5. I would have said the rules have changed and you can wear black…and then I found, to my surprise, I was very slightly bothered by it at my own wedding. 2 female guests out of 4 were wearing black.

        1. No need for the mocking. She admits she was surprised by her feelings and that it bothered her only very slightly. She was sharing her experience. Why the unkindness?

        2. Not the original commenter, but I’ll back up that sentiment – when I got married, I had a small event and people took that as license to wear old stuff and a lot of black. It felt like people were phoning it in, and that was a little upsetting considering it was generally a crowd that had no qualms about getting something new for almost everything else. It’s a petty thought, not my best moment, but it’s a real one.

          1. I don’t doubt you felt hurt, but I’m mostly surprised that you notice friends’ clothing to the extent you can tell whether it’s new or not. I don’t think most people watch their friends’ clothing that closely (and I certainly hope not because I wear the same dressy items to multiple dressy events over the course of years, if not a decade).

          2. Well, because it was small I noticed – the people there were my closest people who I see a lot and they showed up in things I’d seen them wear to the office, out to dinner, and other events.

          3. It could be because it was small that they saw it as more casual… I regularly re-wear dresses, but I would only buy a gown if I thought it was a huge event with tons of other people (just adding, as I’m sure you already know, that it was probably not personal).

        3. It was my now-ILs, who I was just meeting (for geographical reasons, not because of drama or rushing). I didn’t say anything, or give any particular mental weight credence to my own petty thought. And since then I’ve learned that, unlike anon who responded to me, this kind of social ignorance is very typical for them (like, they did figure out, when their own son got married, wedding presents are a thing!), and was no reflection on our wedding or me. We have great IL relationships now.

          1. My mom wore black to my wedding (which was in the south, btw). So I’m not sure that constitutes social ignorance, although it sounds like your ILs have other issues!

    6. My friend’s wife wore a black dress and black hose to my daytime brunch wedding in the South, and I thought she looked freakin amazing.

    7. I’m an east coast/west coast person here- I pretty much only wear black cocktail-ish dresses to weddings, no matter the time of day.

    8. If you do decide to get rid of some of them, ask your local library if they take these as donations. Mine does and they keep them ina box so anyone who wants them can take them.

    9. Where is the wedding? This is highly regional. Rule of thumb: In the South, no. You cannot wear black to a wedding unless you want to be the subject of comment. I suspect based on admittedly limited experience, that might also be the case in the Midwest. In New York, everyone will be in black except the bride.

      In California (in my experience) yes for an evening wedding as long as it is not a dress you could appropriately wear to a funeral, but you might some side-eyes for wearing a black sheath with pearls to a day wedding.

  7. I have come to the realization that I am a magazine hoarder. I subscribe to 3ish monthly cooking magazines and usually buy other magazines anytime I’m at an airport and my collection is no longer able to fit in its cubby in my closet, but I also don’t want to get rid of any of them because I do flip through them very often.

    What are my options here? Invest in a kindle and do digital subscriptions? Does anyone do digital subscriptions on their iPad? (I already have an iPad, but do not have a Kindle). Scan my magazines as they come in then recycle?

    1. You can easily do digital subscriptions on an iPad. Apple has a default app to manage them (Newsstand, I think?) or you can use a service like Texture that will group subscriptions into a single app.

    2. Do a one in one out thing. So if you can’t fit one more magazine it’s time to get rid of the old ones. Go through your most expired issues and rip our recipes or photograph them and then recycle the rest.

      My husband saved National Geographics for years and it really became a burden. No one wanted them either. We tried putting them on free cycle and craigslist before eventually recycling them. And that’s true of your magazines too. They have no intrinsic worth.

    3. You need to just start throwing them away. From time to time. Even though it’s hard.

    4. Are you keeping the magazines for the recipes? If so, you could scan the recipes you want to keep or see if they are on the magazine’s website.

      1. I use ScanBot to capture and organize recipes on my iPad. It basically takes a picture of the recipe, but it stores them in folders that are easily accessible. As a digital photo hoarder, I prefer they are separate. (It also can OCR reasonably sized text and index the recipes.)

    5. I just take a picture with my phone of any recipes that I think I might make (or rip the pg out) then toss the rest.

    6. If you’re keeping them for pretty pictures/design inspiration, you could scan the parts you like and upload them to a pinterest account.

    7. I am also a magazine hoarder. I tend to keep them by my bathtub, on my nightstand, and in the powder room.
      I also use piles in a tote bag to hold open my closet door. Cooking magazines go in the kitchen, of course.
      I do try to cull.
      For recipes, I try to yank out the pages and stick them in plastic sleeves in a binder.
      Also I found my RealSimple was causing me low-grade anxiety so I canceled that.
      Hope that helps.

    8. I keep the holiday issues of cooking magazines because they’re inspiring and you never know when you might want the sweet potato souffle from 2014. But for all other issues, I tell myself that I have to either make that interesting recipe that month or recycle the magazine. If I wasn’t excited enough to make it when it was new and fresh, then there’s no sense in keeping it around.

    9. Download the Kindle app to your iPad. I have an actual Kindle, but right now I’m not sure where it is! I read all my Kindle books, docs, etc. either on my iPad or my iPhone.

    10. There are often places you can donate your stacks. The office of public guardian here takes them for their adult wards.

  8. This is a sensitive and vain topic for me but here goes: I am starting to get known as the workshop go to person in my firm. I am good at leading messy conversations etc. so now, I have to include my bio in a few packs that go out, also in the on-the-day-facebook etc.
    I had a go-to photo from 3 years ago when my hair was long and I was skinny. Now, I have a tiny fro and am chubby so people always comment that they didn’t recognise me from the photobook.
    I was thinking of getting a new professional headshot and bodyshot once I am back to my early weight and my hair grows. But I feel this is not happening anytime soon. Do I just bite the bullet and schedule that photoshoot and use a painfully accurate photo of me or should I wait and laugh off the comments? I don’t want to be one of those who still put a photo with hair decades after they became bald and at the same time.
    As I said very vain and it’s a big insecurity of mine but I’d love to hear from you whether you’d wait a bit or go for the photos now (cost or suitable clothing that fits are both not an issue).

    1. You’re what, a U.K. size 8? That’s objectively small. Go get a photo now. I bet you look a lot better than you think.

    2. I would get photos done now. It doesn’t mean you aren’t the same person or that your body will never change again, but it’s like wearing too tight pants because you’ll “lose weight soon” – it may never happen and you’ll feel self-conscious in the interim. Just do it and wear a great outfit on picture day!

    3. If cost is not an issue, I would do pictures now and work towards your “ideal” weight and look (if you want to) with a plan to redo pictures then. It’s like buying clothes that fit…you may do it sort of holding your nose but the outcome is worth it. Find a look that you are happy enough with and make a real effort for the pictures. It may give you a bit of a self-confidence boost in the meantime.

    4. My personal rule is new photo when I actually look radically different from my bio photo, so yeah, I’d do it now since that where it sounds like you’re at. I would though do what will make you feel good – for me, that would be hair, makeup (and lashes because I think they make a big difference for me) and a great photographer (I use wedding photographers and spend a little more). I’ve found that when I do this, it helps me feel a lot better about how I look now.

    5. The hair probably throws people off much more than the weight. I’d get new photos now.

      2. Just to reaffirm this – it’s hair more than weight.

        I was in the exact same boat, I have gained weight since my headshot and I had also changed my hair. People often couldn’t recognize me from my headshot and I was so self-conscious that everyone was thinking “Oh boy, she gained weight since that picture.”

        Then I changed my hair back to my previous style and everyone magically recognized me again. (I haven’t gotten back down to my headshot weight.)

    6. Thanks all, I just needed to hear that.
      I will get new photos made and then make new ones once I reach my pre-consulting shape
      That last comment actually makes sense, because it’s true everyone comments about the hair difference, my face is still the same

    7. Get your photos done now! You deserve to have awesome pictures now. The person you are now, with the body and hair you have now, deserves that.

    8. Houda, I was in the same boat. I have gained weight (like going from straight sizes to plus sizes) and got glasses and my linked in picture just didn’t look like me any more. It looked like the me I wanted to be, and the me I still was in my mind, but not the me people were going to meet when I spoke or presented or showed up for a meeting.

      So I bit the bullet and had some new headshots taken. I can’t say that I particularly like them, but I’ve gotten used to them, and I think they basically look like me. After all, that is the point of a headshot.

      I know it’s hard when you don’t like how you’re looking (but seriously, it sounds like you look great!) but you do need to have a photo that looks like you now.

    9. If it makes you feel better, try going to a natural hair salon that can fluff out and trim your fro even, and get professional make-up done so you like your current self but the best version of your current self.

    10. My office had headshots done two weeks ago. I hate my job, hate my body size now, hate my teeth, and needed a haircut so bad that I scheduled one the night before the head shot and then had to cancel it because Stuff Came Up. Also I wrote to my friends asking for encouragement and advice in Doing the Head Shot.

      I looked great. It is what it is. It’s not a dating picture or The Picture That Will Be Used On the Local News if you turn up missing – it’s just a photo for work. You can do it. It’s hard. But you’ll get through it.

    11. Get photos now. TBH, I’d think with a good photographer, a headshot wouldn’t really show your overall weight much unless you happen to carry a bunch of the weight in your face. If you don’t like the bodyshot, don’t use it.

    12. On a side note, do you think there is an internet forum where career-minded men encourage each other to suck it up and take a recent head shot? Because I notice a lot of men are no longer as young or as thin as they look in their shots, either!

      1. So much this. The men at my firm seriously all have pictures that were taken 10+ years ago. Some of them are barely recognizable (as in, used to have a full head of hair, is now entirely bald). I don’t think it’s limiting them professionally, but remember using the website to try to figure out who is who in the early days and being really confused.
        Houda, you do you.

      2. I am compiling lots of facebook as part of the workshop deck and usually the men have recent well-lit photos. Some of the women do too, but I did come across the unprofessional ones cropped from a wedding etc. This is the reason I was thinking about my own picture. Actually, I even have male colleagues (senior partners) send me updated (more flattering) photos to use.
        At least in my professional services industry, I have heard many men complain about their photo

    13. I have a head shot that is . . . 14 years old. I had some gray then and I have some more now, but I have straight shiny hair and it doesn’t show up in photographs. I haven’t thought about changing it.

      Should I?

      I think that if were a 22 –> 36 head shot, it may have aged a bit more. But I was in my 30s when it was taken and don’t think that this is a really change-y time (OTOH, should I still use it when I’m in my mid-50s?). The guys bald, so they don’t have the luxury of claiming that there is statis.

      2. Yes! I think everybody should have up to date head shots! I know people who are still using photos that are decades old and it just screams “out of touch!”

    14. I agree that your hair throws people off. Plus, headshots don’t show much of your body. Do one from the chest or shoulders up and feel proud of your skill set as a strong workshop facilitator.

    15. Want to add that my philosophy on this has always been that I never want the first thing people to think of me to be “oh she’s fatter/uglier/whatever-er” than I expected… I’d rather it be the opposite thought, so always try to have an updated picture. It would be best if no one judged ever, but we all know it happens…. and also another thought that comforts me is that generally in 5-10 yrs time, every picture I thought looked bad at the time, when I see it again, I always think “man I looked great, why was I so hard on myself?.”

  9. What are your thoughts on pushing back on people when they schedule work meetings at the very end of the day past the time you would normally leave? I’m not talking about the occasional occurrence during a super busy when it’s all hands on deck, but where people schedule nonessential meetings starting at 4:30 PM when many people leave at that time. In my view, I have the right to manage my own hours, and the bigger issue is that I have personal training sessions in the evenings that I have paid in advance for and that I would lose my money on if I am a no-show. However, it makes me sound like I am not a team player if I act like my personal training session is more important than work, especially if “it’s the only time the whole team can meet.” Thoughts on handling this? In general, I can adjust my calendar availability, but how do you handle it in the moment when the meeting request arrives in your inbox?

      1. 7:30 to 4:30, although sometimes 8-5. Expectation is 40 hours per week in normal periods. We also do not have “core hours.”

    2. If you have something like that scheduled, block it out on your work calendar so everyone knows you’re busy at that time. I don’t think 4:30 is too late for a meeting, though. I tend to go with 5 as the end of a business day. If a meeting is nonessential and I can’t make it, I ask to reschedule it or I don’t go.

    3. Sometimes I put a private meeting on my calendar from 4:30-5:30 if I have to be somewhere at 5 out of the office. That way, my calendar shows as busy and I don’t have to explain my personal appointments.

    4. I respond, “I have a conflict during this time, could we meet earlier or tomorrow?” and then go from there. If it’s a regular issue, I’d say something like, “This time is difficult for me, could we push it up to 3:30?” etc. Make sure you manage blocking your calendar as well.

    5. Yes, block it on your calendar, *including transit time*. No one needs to know what you need to leave for, just that you have an “appointment.” It could be therapy, something with your kids if you have them, hair, nails, other personal needs, whatever. The point is that it is an appointment you need to keep.

      When the invite arrives, you can reply to the meeting host that you will need to leave by 5:00 on the dot that day so a 4:30 meeting doesn’t work well for you. It’s up to the meeting host to figure out why the team doesn’t have availability during the day to get these meetings done–or to schedule them further in advance.

    6. There is no easy way of making bailing on the team for a workout not sound like you don’t care about team work. But then again, it might be that the same annoying person who schedules the 4:30PM meeting would hate you if you scheduled an 8:00AM meeting. You can just frame is as: “Can we please agree to avoid meetings at the start and end of the day as people arrange their schedules in different ways”.
      My rule is that personal time is important so I have learned to say I have a personal appointment and not go into more detail. It took me years to start putting my foot down. That means that unless it is a true work emergency, if I had already notified that I am leaving at 7, I would pack my stuff and leave mid-meeting silently. If it is a one-off, I might accommodate, if it is recurrent then their lack of planning is not my emergency.

      1. I agree completely, Houda. Some of my colleagues are 7:30 or 8am to 4:30 or 5 pm, but a few are more like 10am-6pm. We would never ask the late person to start a meeting at 8 or 8:30 am, but somehow the late person likes suggesting meetings that start late in the day. We just say no, unless it’s a on-off and you feel like you need to accommodate that person.

    7. Very YMMV, but I wouldn’t have a problem pushing back as long as it’s a non-emergency, consistent with office protocol, and not bucking hierarchy terribly. something like “sorry, I have a hard-stop at 5 so can we have this meeting the next morning instead?” seems totally neutral and noncontroversial (again, assuming it’s not a VIP setting the meeting, it’s a small group, etc.) I have childcare commitments so will often suggest alternative times on days I need to be out the door at 5:15 or can’t get to the office early for 8 a.m. due to putting kids on the bus. Another trick I use is to block the 15-30 mins or so before I have to leave with an appt so that I don’t get caught up in something that keeps me late. (this is all coming from an in-house legal environment, so I recognize it may not work at a firm or in a more hierarchical/hard charging environment.
      If it’s a recurring theme, can you talk to the organizer about scheduling the meeting in advance — e.g., if you always know these meetings are on thursday so you can avoid planning training sessions that might conflict?

    8. If it’s not a key meeting or relating to something time senso, then I’d tell them I’m booked with another appointment and suggest a new time or I’d be very specific that I have a hard stop at x. No one’s business that your appointment is training. That said, I’d try to make as many of these as possible even if it’s explaining that you’ll need to take it while driving to do. I’m often on the flip side with folks wanting to talk so early that they are screwing up my commute in. Grrr.

    9. I block my calendar off in the evenings specifically for this reason. Most of the people I work with on a daily basis have been “trained” to my schedule. I absolutely decline unless it’s someone from super high upper management or one of my colleagues in APAC who needs to utilize a later time because of the time zone issues.

    10. I think you need to do two things. 1) Push back on the occasional meeting. 2) But also not be obliged to be somewhere at 5 on the dot every single day.

      That is an hourly mentality and it sounds like you’re in a professional/exempt role. If 4:30-5 is a time when most of your team are working, you should generally be available at that time. If you occasjolly can’t do it, that’s one thing, but every day is too much.

      Personal training appointments are not set in stone. You can set them for 6pm.

      1. OP here. Several other people in my small office leave even earlier than that and we have the flexibility to set our own working hours. I also have a very long, crowded commute and leaving even a little bit later than normal can make the whole thing take 30% or more additional time. I don’t think the concern is that I am not available when I should be, but that people schedule meetings at a time when several of us are regularly not there (even though there are 7.5 other hours in the day to schedule a meeting in). I’m also not sure I understand your argument; I would say the vast majority of people I know in professional roles leave at roughly the same time every day, whether it’s 5 or 7, because that’s the schedule they’ve adopted for whatever personal reason.

        1. There really aren’t 7.5 other hours in a day if some team members are 9-5. The overlap is smaller than that.

        2. How much training are you going for that this is a problem?

          If it’s every Thursday, it should be easy enough to say “I can’t make a 4:30 meeting on Thursdays; otherwise, yes.” But with your commute, my guess is that you don’t want to do it the other days, either.

          But if you know you have a 4:30 meeting on Tu and your hours are flexible, can’t you just adjust accordingly that day? Wouldn’t everyone else, too?

        3. I have worked in professional office environments for … too many years now. People who leave at the same time, inflexibly, every day are not well regarded. Sorry. Stuff happens and you are expected to be available. I’m not saying that you have to be available every singe day, but if something comes up, you need to be able to be there. That is the difference between a professional and an hourly employee.

          Yes, managers do notice these things, and it makes a difference when performance appraisals or ranking of employees comes around. Ranking of employees is important for both promotion opportunities and for job security – I will let you guess who’s at the bottom of the list when layoffs come around. This is true advice from my long career covering good economic times and bad.

          1. I have not had a long career yet and even I have noticed this. Some people in my last office were indignant about working 7-3 or 8-4 and complained incessantly if there was a meeting scheduled after those hours and threatened to schedule their own meetings at 7am. Turns out that no, 7am is not normal business hours but 4pm is. It did not come off well for those people and I’m not saying the ones who worked later were automatically picked for promotions but you could tell who cared about the work and who didn’t, in this particular office at least. Not saying you don’t care. But as others have mentioned, maybe make it a once or twice a week thing and not every day.

          2. Agree with this 100%. At a certain point, you need to have/are paid for your flexibility.

            If the attitude of being available only if it is an emergency is prevalent, then it adds significant time to longer term projects, which may not be urgent, but are very important for success.

    11. Depends on your work culture. My banker friends decline meetings at 4:30 all the time. Like you said, people’s start and end time varies. I bet people would have no problem declining a request for a 7:30 meeting.

    12. Do you work in biglaw at my firm in NYC? On my deal team?!

      I’m sorry, but if you’re on a deal team, SORRY, you’re going to have to schedule your training sessions for 6am or SUCK IT UP.

      Disappearing from 5:30pm to 11:30pm EVERY DAY for weeks is not OK.

    13. Eh. I think this is just being lazy on the part of the scheduler. It’s probably a time that’s “open” because people don’t otherwise schedule meetings during that time. I feel the same way about lunch meetings where I am not fed lunch. “But it was the only time open on your calendar!” Yeah, because I need to eat.

      I block the time on my calendar. I respond to requests for late meetings with a counter for an early meeting. I only take emergency meetings or meetings from senior management at later hours.

      I do good work. I do enough work. I do not need to give up more of my day for my colleagues who stroll in 2 hours after I do. Plus, I have kids and the evening is when I see them. Kids pretty much always trump work. But I’m fine with my colleagues hobbies that trump work, medical needs that trump work, etc. I am gender-neutral, reason-neutral on working within one’s own core hours (as permitted by one’s employer).

      1. I have to cross functionally get approval from various teams for filings- this is the ONLY way I can set meetings, especially when I need sign off on a quick turn around (totally not up to me- set by regulation). I can’t realistically go back and forth and double check 10 (buys & important) people’s calendars or waste their time in that way and so have had to set either early/late/lunch meetings if that is the only clear spot for all those people on their calendars. If you want to leave that time blocked on your calendar, do it– I do! I think it helps… but I also will call into meetings if I necessarily have to and they are more important than my leave time.

    14. Oh, and I just got a reminder about the kickoff for a big new university program that I’ve been invited to be a part of. It’s a cocktail party at 5 pm for a really important initiative. I emailed the organizer and told her that, given the week I’ve had (medical procedure under general anesthesia yesterday), I would rather have tomorrow be a regular day and go to the gym. I just can’t with these work meetings disguised as cocktail parties. They are not fun for me. I do not drink during the day or after work. I go to the gym.

  10. Anyone else slightly annoyed by all the over the top praise of Karl Lagerfeld from celebrities and the fashion community while completely ignoring all the vile things he’s said?

    5. Yeah. I’m ignoring it. I didn’t like him when he was alive, so he’s not suddenly an adorable grandpa just because he died.

    6. Yes. I’ve been looking at the comments and someone usually mentions his misogyny, racism and anti-Semitism, so that’s good. And a lot of the obituaries have been mentioning it, too.

      I’d still like to get a Hot Take from Zoolander or Bruno from The Ali G Show, but that’s my opinion of couture…

    7. Yes. But, I’ll add that the coverage seems somewhat subdued given his influence in the fashion industry. I thought that was due to the fact that he died digraced by his own hateful words. Could be that I’m just not that into fashion these days.

  11. Bernie Sanders raised $6 million in the first 24 hours since announcing. I most likely won’t be supporting him this time (but it’s too soon to say for sure), but I think the lesson we all need to take to heart is do not underestimate his appeal across a wide swathe of voters. It’s not just “Bernie bros” and it never was – I read yesterday that he has more support among black Democrats than Harris. I think he has a real shot of becoming the nominee and I hope that doesn’t end up surprising people.

    1. If he becomes the nominee, then I would rather not vote in this election. His plans are all unworkable, and aside from racist/sexist comments that Trump has made, I see little difference between his brand of demagoguery and Trump’s. Fingers crossed someone else will win the Democratic nomination. This time I am going to start volunteering like crazy for whoever has the greatest support aside from Sanders.

      1. OK, that makes literally no sense to me. How is Sanders at all like Trump? He is advocating the same exact policies as most of the Democratic candidates – $15 minimum wage, universal health care, and so on (which a majority of Americans, not just Democrats, support). It sounds like you have a personal vendetta against him and you are allowing it to cloud your judgment about what he actually stands for in terms of policy.

        1. They’re both very angry, and feed on bringing out the worst tendencies in their supporters. They both make pie-in-the-sky promises that can never be reality. They both have a cult-like following where their supporters believe whatever they say, regardless of whether it’s grounded in fact. They’re both racist and misogynistic, Bernie is just more subtle about it. I absolutely see Bernie as the Trump of the left.

          And if you want to talk policy, Bernie is on the far left on some things that will not be reality in the US anytime soon (free college, etc) but is actually pretty aligned with Trump on gun control and trade. Bernie has always been an independent and that’s because he isn’t really a Democrat. He is to the left of the party on many issues and to the right of the party on others.

          1. Adding that I don’t think it’s a coincidence that there was a large swath of straight, white men that liked both Bernie and Trump in 2016. They may have some very significant policy differences, but they definitely appeal to the same basic instincts in people. And a common thread is that they and their supporters have little concern for marginalized groups.

          2. Again, I don’t understand. How are Bernie’s policies angry at anyone except the plutocrats (whereas Trump is angry at women, immigrants, black people, and literally everyone else)? $15 minimum wage was considered pie-in-the-sky just a few years ago and now it’s the reality in a growing number of cities and states. How on Earth can you claim that Bernie doesn’t care about marginalized groups when his entire platform is based on restructuring society to benefit the majority of Americans instead of a wealthy few? He punches up while Trump punches down and that is an essential distinction. I am really trying to see your point here, but you’ve gotta help me out.

          3. I agree except for that straight white men are somehow a marginalized group. They’re falsely aggrieved, sure. Not marginalized.

          4. What part of his platform does’t benefit white men? He may not be strictly opposed, but he does’t care about things like Universal Pre-K or reproductive rights or better funding for public schools, all of which disproportionately benefit women and minorities. I just read his 2020 platform and literally everything benefits white men.
            This is has some good points about how the free college platform in particular is very targeted to benefit the white working class male: https://medium.com/@biancadelarosa/the-white-identity-politics-of-bernie-sanders-3fe26f79f732

            Re: anger. Just listening to him speak, all he does is yell and complain about the billionaires and the banks and blah blah blah everything is terrible. All candidates talk about what they want to fix, but Bernie is SO negative, especially compared to people like Obama and Booker who sound so hopeful and optimistic. The target of the anger is different than the target of Trumps’ anger but the anger is similar.

          5. @ Suburban I’m the Anon at 10:51. I was not saying white working class men are marginalized!! My point was this is the crowd that likes both Bernie and Trump for the reasons I described, and that as a group they have no concern for marginalized groups (women, POC, LGBT+ etc).

          6. Bernie was actually better on reproductive rights than Hillary was – just saying. HRC advocated for gestational age limits and Bernie did not.

      2. This. He’s the left wing DT. And I don’t understand why the s. harr@ssment issues on his last campaign seem to have been forgotten about. It’s like Bernie Bros only care about s.h. when it’s DT who condones it.

        1. I think that’s true. Women who question or complain about anything in furtherance of The Cause are just shrill, unlikeable liars.

        2. To clarify, I agree about the harassment stuff – I don’t think he’s the left-wing DT.

      3. For all the supposed criticism of Bernie Bros not voting for Hillary–which wasn’t super significant empirically–we have the opposite.

        Regardless of your perceptions about Bernie, you know programs like his are currently in place in Scandinavia and much of Europe? If you want to say they’re not working abroad and, for example, criticize Canadian industrial relations for being too pro-union, we can argue specifics.

      4. I feel the same way and I’d add that Bernie is not a liberal on the issue that matters most to me, which is gun control. I think it’s pretty tough to distinguish him and Trump on that issue. I would have an incredibly hard time voting for him and would much rather vote for any other Democrat in the field so far.

      5. Someone on this board once posted that both Bernie and Trump come from a place of anger and I have to agree. It is not appealing.

        1. Doesn’t it make any difference what they’re angry about? What would you like to see instead of anger?

          2. Of course the subject of the anger matters, but Bernie’s anger is about billionaires, which I don’t think is the right thing to be angry about. I’d be much more enthusiastic about a Dem candidate who was angry about the planet being destroyed or about kids being regularly murdered in school (I saw Kamala give a passionate answer about this topic, and I liked it). But for Bernie it all comes back to BILLIONAIRES ARE EVIL. Which ok, I’m not very rich myself and I’m all for rich people paying more taxes, but billionaires are not the root of our country’s problems. Racism and sexism and unfettered access to guns and utter disregard for the planet are the source of our country’s most pressing problems.

        2. It’s a “break everything” mentality. Trump voters wanted to break everything because they felt like white men were getting screwed. Bernie voters wanted to break everything because they felt something else – the environment, poor people, whatever – was getting screwed. (Not to mention the misogyny.) Bernie himself called it a revolution, which is a break-everything mentality. It’s definitely coming from a place of anger.

          The problem with break everything is that it doesn’t really work. Most of us are more pragmatic.

          1. I disagree. I find it a “fix everything because the world really can get better” mentality whereas many other Democrats seem to express an “it can’t be fixed so why try” mentality (leading to mediocre, half-baked ideas to end major problems like lack of affordable education). Your criticism is kind of odd to me since I actually wouldn’t consider Bernie as a “break everything” kind of person at all, but obviously we all have our own interpretations.

            Also, I have to say that I think there is a role for anger and that if you’re not angry about some things (like climate change, the fact that Netflix payed no taxes and instead got a rebate, or kids in cages), you’re not even awake. I do wish Bernie would get angrier about gun control.

        3. The problem with anger is that it allows people to react out of emotion, which enables and encourages all sorts of implicit bias. Riling up voters to be angry about the “other” will get them in a mindset to start opposing anyone they are predisposed to view as different. This always will hurt marginalized groups, especially when it’s an angry white man talking. I strongly believe that Sanders’ campaign in the primary did serious damage to Hillary in the general election. And if (when) he doesn’t win the primary, his participation will have stoked the flames of angry white “liberal” men, who will ultimately turn their rage against any candidate who is not white, or not a man.

    3. I don’t know where you read that, but Bernie has always struggled with black voters, it’s what sank him in the 2016 primaries so I don’t believe that statistic at all.

      1. He had the majority support with the black poor and youth vote but had a harder time with wealthier and older black voters.

        1. I am a young-ish (30s) black voter and I voted for Bernie in the primaries. And I know several other POC who did as well. I think it was easy to paint his voter group with a broad brush as just “Bernie Bros” because majority middle class White women wanted Hillary to win so badly.

    4. Without getting into my personal views, 538s politics podcast did an episode yesterday on this, which I thought was insightful and interesting and highly recommend. Claire Malone (whom I really like to listen to) I believe, made the point that it’s unclear whether Bernie’s popularity was because he was the only Hillary alternative. They also made the point that he’s an “og” in advocating policies that are now adopted by the majority of mainstream dems, so it’s unclear where he stands now as an older white man. Ive probably garbled it here but it’s interesting.

    5. For those of you saying you’d rather sit this out because “Bernie is worse or equal to Trump” – that makes zero sense. No candidate is perfect, however, if you look into both of their histories, the groups/issues they champion (or dont champion) it is clear their values/policies are extremely different.

      Also, just like the MAJORITY of Bernie supporters (no not the ‘bros’) voted for Clinton in the general because they realized DJT was a monster, I hope the majority of people who claim to be democrat votes accordingly in the general. If you think they are similar in any major way holistically, you need to do your research and/or accept that you were not a Democrat to begin with and are happy with Trump’s policies/the way things are.

      Theres nothing wrong with not agreeing with Bernie/hoping he doesnt win the primary, that is one thing, but to say he is equal or the “left’s trump” and guarantee trump another FOUR YEARS…

      No wonder this country is a mess…

      1. +1. He may not be your first choice (he’s not mine either), but I would gladly, happily, enthusiastically vote for him over Trump in the general election. I would campaign for him, give money to his campaign, and do whatever it took and not just because he’s not Trump, but because he’s a progressive with some great ideas that largely (although not perfectly) align with my own views. I can’t think of one single policy where he is similar to Trump.

        1. Gun control and trade – they are both generally of the mind that gun control is an issue that should be left to the states and there should be no free trade agreements.

      2. Literally nobody has said they would sit the general election out if it’s Bernie vs Trump. Stop with the strawman. Saying that Bernie is the Trump of the left is being given as a reason not to support him IN THE PRIMARY. The point of a primary is to select the best candidate.

          1. “Rather not vote” is not the same as “will not vote.” I would definitely rather not vote for Bernie, but will if I have to.

            The rest of the commentary (“His plans are all unworkable, and aside from racist/sexist comments that Trump has made, I see little difference between his brand of demagoguery and Trump’s. Fingers crossed someone else will win the Democratic nomination. This time I am going to start volunteering like crazy for whoever has the greatest support aside from Sanders.”) is all about who should win the primary. And I agree 100%.

        2. This person literally did. Re:Anon @10:29am:

          “If he becomes the nominee, then I would rather not vote in this election. His plans are all unworkable, and aside from racist/sexist comments that Trump has made, I see little difference between his brand of demagoguery and Trump’s. Fingers crossed someone else will win the Democratic nomination. This time I am going to start volunteering like crazy for whoever has the greatest support aside from Sanders.”

          Making that equivalency is blatantly INACCURATE whether or not you are trying to make a (FALSE) argument against him in the general OR primary. If people believe that Bernie is the left’s DJT, a lot of people will sit out this election and we will end up with 4 more years of DJT. This rhetoric is dangerous and has consequences.

          1. “If people believe that Bernie is the left’s DJT, a lot of people will sit out this election and we will end up with 4 more years of DJT. This rhetoric is dangerous and has consequences.”

            And Bernie and his diehard supporters convinced plenty of people that Hillary was no better than Trump and that’s how we got Trump in the first place. So a big old “meh” to freaking out about “damaging rhetoric.”

          2. More Bernie supporters turned out for Hilary than Hilary supporters turned out for Obama. This entire narrative is false and leads to unproductive conversations.

          3. What are you even saying? Bernie bros did it, so let us be the ones to do it this time to teach them a lesson? Them being the entire country for which the result could literally mean life or death for some people.

            Maybe I shouldve made this clear: I am not a Bernie Bro and will likely not even be voting for him the primary (I honestly wish he would sit this out because its bringing all this sh.t up again but I digress). I sure as hell will be voting for whoever has a D next to their name in the general. So I repeat:

            “If people believe that Bernie is the left’s DJT, a lot of people will sit out this election and we will end up with 4 more years of DJT. This rhetoric is dangerous and has consequences.”

          4. So then why not assume all of us will get over it and vote for Bernie in the general, because statistically we will and no one has said they won’t? What is being said about Bernie here is no worse than what was said about Hillary, so if you believe his supporters turned out for her in an appropriate fashion in the general election, then give us the same benefit of the doubt. You want to have it both ways – we can’t criticize Bernie, but it’s ok that Bernie supporters criticized Hillary because they eventually voted for her.

          5. @12:40pm – I am specifically talking about the people who are saying Bernie is the left DJT and/or will sit out.

            I am all for criticizing candidates and having respectful arguments based on facts – I am not for spreading misinformation that he is the left DJT because it has a trickle effect outside of this forum. I’m sure many of you will vote for the Democrat, whoever it is. I had the same argument with friends who said Clinton was just as bad as Trump and they still voted for her in the primary. However, I saw firsthand how those views/conversations trickled down to people in their circle who abstained from voting bc “who cares, theyre all the same”.

            Words mean things.

          6. Saying that Bernie is the Trump of the left is not saying he’s equal to or worse than Trump. You can draw a comparison and say he is like Trump in many ways, without saying he’s an equivalent. I have and will continue to describe Bernie as the “Trump of the left” because to me they share many similarities, despite their policy differences (which are acknowledged by the phrase “of the left”). It doesn’t mean I think they’re morally equivalent or that it’s not worth voting for Bernie over Trump.

            Again, literally nobody today has said they will sit out a Bernie vs Trump general. “Rather not vote” is an expression of preference, not action. I would rather not have to come to work today, but I did because I don’t want to get fired. I would rather not vote for Bernie because I hate him, but if it comes down to him versus Trump, I will vote for him because I hate Trump more. If you’re going to say “words mean things” you have to understand the meanings.

          7. Anon @1:01pm We have very different interpretations of any possible similarities and the comment I was critiquing (not just the “rather not” phrase). But I think at this point we can agree to disagree.

      3. I mean white women, particularly middle class and higher white women, went for trump in the last election. It’s not surprising that this board skews to the right of the democratic party. It’s fine if you are a fiscal liberal who doesn’t support social safety nets, minimum wages being raised etc. (I mean I think its horrible but you know) but don’t call yourself a progressive! Just own being the right wing of the party, own being a centrist/moderate/whatever. Younger and poorer dem voters strongly favor Bernie across every other identity line, and all the other candidates are shaping their message in relation to his main policy points, whether they are for or against. The left of the party is a major driver in the narrative. There is a division in the base of the democratic party and its going to get fought out during this primary season.

        1. LOLLL that you have to be “to the right of the Democratic party” to not like Bernie. My husband is the most liberal person I know and he hates Bernie because Bernie (like Trump) just spews out what his base wants to hear and doesn’t have any idea how to actually implement anything. It’s not about not supporting a progressive agenda.

          1. But Bernie’s not a liberal – he’s a democratic socialist. It makes sense that liberals would oppose some of his more socialist leaning policies (they are very very light socialism, but anything is a lot in the US). In a parliamentary system Bernie/AOC/Tlaib/Omar would be a social democrat party, Harris/Klobuchar/Booker/Clintons etc. would be a centrist liberal party. Because of our two party system they are lumped together and we have to fight it out in primaries not parliamentary elections. Bernie and others of his political bent have plans for how to pay for things, but rich people don’t want to pay for them out of their taxes. Thats not a shocking position to take! It’s in economically successful people’s material interests to hold onto their money and generally uphold the status quo they live in. But it’s not what me and many other young members of the democratic party believe in, and its going to be more and more of an uphill battle for the classical liberal democrats to succeed, which is why we see people like Kamala Harris adopting more left wing policies (marijuana legalization, minimum wage increases) and others like Klobuchar using them as talking points that they distinguish themselves against.

          2. Well now you’re just quibbling over semantics with the meaning of liberal vs. progressive or whatever. My husband is absolutely to the left of most Democrats today. He supports much higher taxes on the rich, $15 minimum wage, universal health care, Green New Deal, etc. We are not rich and I don’t believe any of Bernie’s tax plans would raise our taxes, but my husband would be in favor of personally paying more in taxes for greater social services. “Hates” is too strong a word, but he really dislikes Bernie because of Bernie’s anger, anti-intellectualism and propensity for telling his base what they want to hear without digging into the details (in contrast with, say, Elizabeth Warren), and the fact that he’s turned a blind eye to serious sexism among his staff. Bernie’s personality and political style remind him of Trump and he agrees it’s a fair comparison despite obvious policy differences. Does that satisfy you?

          3. Yes, it’s very fair to prefer Warren over Sanders if you support those policies. Part of why I support him over her is that he actually says he is a socialist, whereas she does not, and thats important to me (and a lot of other people). I also think she falls to Trumps bait a lot and won’t do well against him in a general. Do I think its fair to compare Bernie to Trump because they are both populists? Not especially no. A lot of what people are saying in this thread/what you are saying your husband is responding to (anger, perceived anti-intellectualism, etc.) are the component parts of populism. Why is populism a bad thing? Do folks really think that a technoratic dem can beat a populist like Trump? At the end of a day I strongly believe we need to confront Trumps populism with populism from the left, not with technocratic centrism, and I don’t understand why there is such a strong aversion to populism from older/more centrist dems. To the point that people will choose a politician with a style they prefer (technocratic) but substance they do not (less progressive policies) over the opposite. I’m guessing some of the reason is that Americans aren’t use to this style of politics, but instead of running from it I hope that the dems can embrace it because I don’t see the more traditional liberal style/approach being capable of beating Trump in our current political climate. Does that answer your question?

          4. Without getting into details of substance, I find it interesting that you are parroting what your husband thinks. What is your opinion? Do you agree with your husband or not? You are entitled to disagree with him.

          5. Obviously married people can disagree. I shared my husband’s opinion in response to a comment that said (about people who don’t like Bernie) “just own being the right wing of the party, own being a centrist/moderate/whatever. ” The moderate/centrist label may apply to me, but it certainly doesn’t apply to my husband who is much farther left than I am. And yet he dislikes Bernie for many (but not all) of the same reasons I do, so I was trying to use my husband (it could have been a friend, a co-worker anyone, but it happens that my husband is politically farther left than anyone else I know well) to make the point that you can be politically to the very far left, in favor of many of the Bernie/AOC/etc policy proposals, and still agree with many of the criticisms of Bernie made on this thread.

        3. +1 The exit polls clearly show that middle class and upper middle class White women are the reason Trump won the election full stop. To make it about Bernie Bros is just disingenuous AND inaccurate. White women are the reason we have Trump as president, so I could care less about the straw man arguments saying Bernie running is the reason Democrats will lose. White women voting against the interest of everyone but themselves (excluding White men) is the reason Trump will be re-elected.

    6. Definitely not interested in voting for angry grandpa who has been elected forever but never actually gotten any major initiatives through Congress. I want someone who can get stuff done and not just someone who likes to hear himself talk.

    7. I don’t get why Democrats don’t vote with the Supreme Court in mind. RGB isn’t going to last forever. I’ll vote for any Dem to avoid further deterioration of constitutional protections!

      1. That is a very good point, and will probably make me vote for Bernie if that is what I have to do.

  12. How to avoid waking up with dry eyes? Lately, my eyes are so dry when I wake up in the morning that it takes about 15 minutes before I can actually open them. It feels like they are glued shut! I find that reading before bed or watching things on my ipad/iPhone before bed all make it worse. But what else can I do before sleeping to relax that does not involve reading or watching a device?

    1. You can use eyedrops or eye gel, especially before bed. Systane is a good brand that I’ve used. Definitely check with your doctor or eye doctor if you have questions or other issues.

      1. +1 to the Systane gel.

        Also, not sleeping with the fan on – makes me sad, but it makes a big difference. If there’s no fan, check if the air vent is near your pillow.

    2. My optometrist prescribed very expensive eydrops–Xidra. I use a manufacturer’s coupon so it’s $10 a month rather than $430.

      Have you tried OTC drops twice a day and before bed? Apparently this is a totally normal thing even non contact lens wears should be doing.

      The best solution has been plugging my tear duct. (I’m not describing it in the best way, but basically, your eye have two drainage ducts, one on the upper and one on the lower lid. She inserted a tiny bit of collagen into one of them. The moisture my eyes make can still drain out of the unplugged duct, and because its collagen it will biodegrade in a couple of months. Since it works for me, we’re going to do a more permanent plug in a couple of months.)

      1. I have had my ducts plugged and also cauterized. Sadly, they healed and also the plugs eventually came out.

        I currently use Lacrisert, which is a small pellet that is inserted in the eye that slowly dissolves and releases a moisture barrier. My eye dr says most people find it hard to use, but it is the only thing that works for me.

        I have also had success with having my blood serum made into eye drops. It is a relatively new process so only certain docs do it but it really helps.

        For lower level dryness, Systane balance through out the day or the individual preservative free drops in the single use vials if your eyes are sensitive to preservatives and this exacerbates dryness, work. Dryness probably needs to be combatted all day and not just at night.

        There are gels and creams that can be used overnight. They somewhat annoy me but they are stronger than drops.

        Again, I second talking to your eye dr but also be aware that the newest and more aggressive approaches to dry eye treatment (Lacrisert and serum drops) are not widely known, even to eye drs.

    3. Omg go see your eye doctor! Like, with in a week. This is how your eyes wind up permanently damaged. In the mean time, buy a humidifier for your bedroom, stop wearing contacts if you usually do, and read a paper book before bed.

    4. See an eye doctor. This could be a lot of things (allergies, sleeping with eyes open, an autoimmune disease, etc., etc.), so you need to be checked out.

      In addition to what my eye doctor recommended, I’m trying hyaluronic acid orally. The research isn’t in, but I decided I didn’t mind experimenting on myself.

    5. Also, maybe sleep with a humidifier in the room? The electric heaters in my house are causing daily havoc on my sinuses… I literally wake up with a bloody nose every other day. I’m pregnant, so that isn’t helping. I have a humidifier on, keep the door open to the rest of the house, drink a glass of water before bed & if I wake up, and have been using saline spray & vaseline. We were out of town in a warmer climate this last week and my problems totally stopped. Obviously, not quite the same as for eyes, but wouldn’t be surprised if it is an instigator.

    6. Do you use moisturizing drops? Try gel drops both before bed and upon waking up. Throughout the day, regular drops with no preservatives in them. I have a clinical case of dry eyes and this helps.

  13. What’s the best way to get eyeliner off your inner eye (i.e., tightlining). I’m sure it’s terrible for your eyes, etc., but I only do it once in a while (once every 4-6 weeks) for special occasions. My current efforts make it a two-day effect.

    1. An oily cleanser that is eye-safe. I like ponds cold cream. Follow with a regular cleanser.

    2. There are specially designed wipes for the eyelids made by contact lens solution brands. I got some Systane brand because the last time I was in to see the optometrist she cleaned some gunk out of my eyes (eek.)

      After that I would not put anything else inside the waterline of my eyes. But if you’re less concerned, maybe repeated applications of something generically eyesafe would work as the other poster suggested?

    3. IS tightlining terrible for your eyes? If they aren’t irritated and you don’t seem to have issues, is there a danger to doing it?
      – “Please say there isn’t”

    4. I tightline every day, and have for the past 15 years or so. I use a Q-tip soaked in eye makeup remover. I curl the Q tip up under the base of my upper eyelash, kind of like a mascara wand. I find that using pads, etc clean the top of my eyelid (like where I would put eyeshadow on) but don’t get underneath where the eyeliner is. I only put eyeliner on my upper lid, not the bottom.

  14. I’m a mayoral candidate in a small Northeastern city (100K), and the only woman candidate running against 4 older white men in a city that has never elected a woman. We have a debate in a few weeks, and I’m stuck on what to wear. Please weigh in with your thoughts! I’m tall, 18/20W, hourglass/chesty with small shoulders, so it is hard to find blazers that fit even with the help of a tailor.

    FWIW, its a nonpartisan race although we are all registered Democrats (but that isn’t on the ballot or signage), and my signage is royal blue, light blue, and white.

    1) Royal blue pantsuit with a white shell and black pointed toe heels
    2) White suit with a royal blue shell and the same heels
    3) Navy skirt suit with light blue shell, same heels…but I wonder if voters will prefer a woman in a skirt or a pantsuit? I’m thinking pantsuit. We will be seated behind a table with no bunting, so I think pantsuit avoids any inadvertant flashing.

    2. Definitely pantsuit if seated with no bunting. Both options one and two sound great. How blue is the royal blue suit? If it’s not super bright, I’d go with that. If it is pretty bright, I’d probably stick with the white suit. I’m not sure how I feel about black heels though. Do you have nude for you shoes you could wear instead?

    4. Definitely the navy pantsuit. I’m only about a size smaller than you: the white suit may look be great when you’re standing but I always feel like I look bigger when I’m sitting in white, especially if you’re up on a dais or being viewed from an awkward angle, and especially if you’re going to be filmed. It’s just a less forgiving color. Congrats and good luck!

    5. Pantsuit all the way. You need to be focused on the substance of the debate, not whether or not your knees are together under the table.

    6. Royal pantsuit, no question. It will show better in photos and on screens.

      Go get ’em!

  15. Planning my first trip to Tokyo and I am overwhelmed by the neighborhood/hotel options. Any recommendations for neighborhoods you wise and well traveled people have enjoyed staying in? Or specific hotels? I’ll be there for five days and want a hotel that is safe, clean, and close to a subway station; don’t want to stay in a hostel, but also don’t need to stay at anything particularly fancy. Ease of sightseeing definitely outranks fancy in my book. I like having good restaurants and bars in the neighborhood, but (a) am in my mid-30s and don’t plan to be out partying into the wee hours and (b) am totally willing to take transit to/from dinner and bars if the neighborhoods one wants to sleep in are not the neighborhoods one wants to eat in.

    1. When I went, I just booked a Westin (can’t recall the neighborhood) – I liked having a chain hotel for help with booking dinners and sending my luggage ahead to the next city. Tokyo is huge and everywhere is on a subway stop, and there’s so much to see that it’s not like there’s one touring area you’ll want to be near. My advice would be book a big chain hotel, and then book tours by locals for a day or two to show you around. They are private guides and know how to navigate everything. Both of these suggestions are so far from my usual travel style (I’m a boutique hotel/airbnb/loathe anything with “tour” in the title kind of traveler) but I promise it’s great there. If you want an authentic experience hotel-wise, I recommend a night at Gora Hanaougi in Hakone – it’s a high-end traditional Ryokan that’s a special experience.

    2. Shinjuku is a great neighborhood: central to most places, tons to do, and the train station will take you to most of your day trips or likely be your station for the bullet to Kyoto or elsewhere. I like staying in the Sunroute hotels. They are a business hotel chain so there aren’t a lot of frills but they are very clean, of average size for a Japanese hotel, and have good customer service. The Sunroute next to Shinjuku is a five minute walk.

      1. +1 I just stayed in the Sunroute Shinjuku in December, and it sounds like what you’re looking for. It is just down the street from one of the biggest train stations in Tokyo. Bed was reasonably comfortable, bathroom was clean. Definitely one of the better deals close to a convenient station when I was there.
        Enjoy Tokyo! I loved it!

    3. Hotel with the Godzilla! I think its called Hotel Gracery Shinjuku and I went when it first opened, but now it has been open for a while and pricier. The rooms are fantastic – really really nice bathrooms, the bed is a bit on the small side, but par for the course in Japan. Hotel concierge is fantastic, they were one step away from booking us an omakase sushi place and we backed out ourselves due to cost. Laundry facilities in the lobby and also fantastic, plus hotel is super easy to locate in the middle of Shinjuku’s red light district with Godzilla right on top. The red light district despite its name has low key bars in its side streets and I spent two nights drinking and chatting in broken Japanese with the bartenders.

      My second time back in Japan I stayed on the opposite side of Tokyo, but if you want a hotel hotel I would recommend Godzilla no doubt.

      1. I stayed there too on my first trip to Japan! Yes, it’s the Hotel Gracery Shinjuku. It was relatively cheap but very nice, and I stayed in a one-person room on the women’s floor, which had a 3/4 bed (like, between a twin and a full). The room included all these crazy perks, all sorts of beauty products and a foot massager machine and a bunch of other machines I couldn’t figure out how to use, plus a little survey asking if the reason you had chosen the women’s floor was for the extra amenities… The location is unbeatable, I was able to get all around the city very easily with only a couple of train line changes, and there’s lots of good food in the neighborhood.

    5. The previous comment is correct that sights are spread all over and one location won’t necessarily be more convenient than the other one. I like the Shibuya area because I like visiting sights and neighborhoods on the west more (Meiji jingu shrine, Shinjuku Gyoen national park, shopping in Ikebukoro district). But if it’s your first visit you’ll likely want to visit the east side too (palace, Tokyo skytree, Sensoji Temple). The metro system is efficient and Japan is generally very safe, even at night.

    6. I second the rec for Sunroute hotels. Last trip we stayed at the Hotel Sunroute Shinjuku and it was nice and very convenient to Shinjuku station. This trip (going again in May) we’ll be staying at another Sunroute property in a different area of Tokyo.

    7. Shibuya Excel Hotel Tokyu. I stayed there, recommended it to a friend who also liked it, and had a friend coincidentally stay there without my recommendation and also liked it. Amazing location, nice but not super fancy, affordable, and right above a train station in Shibuya.

    8. One important thing about Tokyo (or rather Japanese) hotels, is that they still have smoking rooms (smoking floors). So if you want to be guaranteed a non-smoking room, you need to make sure that is a explicit part of your booking. Ladies’ floors are generally non-smoking throughout.

      I have stayed in Ginza, Shinjuku and Shibuya, all very convenient and easy for different parts of the city and different attractions.

    9. I can’t speak to your specific standards, but Japan is known for “safe and clean,” including hotels. When there during a layover last year, I was surprised by the numerous announcements and signs regarding safety, at least compared to the USA.

  16. My partner and I will be in Sydney, Australia for two weeks in May and I’m hoping to get some suggestions for things to do and places to eat there since you all are always so helpful. Sydney will be our home base, but we’d like to do one or two short trips as well while we’re there. I was thinking somewhere around Cairns to see the GBR and maybe somewhere else? I know we won’t be able to see everything Australia has to offer, but any tips make the most of our short time there? Thanks in advance!

    1. Is there any point to visiting the GBR anymore? Not to be an incredible downer, but friends who’ve visited in the last few years have said it’s basically entirely dead.

      2. I went about 7 years ago (so maybe it’s significantly worse off?), but yes, I’d still absolutely go.

    2. The Blue Mountains are really worth seeing. And Port Douglas was amazing, I’d recommend a night or two there.

  17. I know these had been discussed here before. But I’m asking again since I’m preparing for an interview.
    1. How high should I button my shirt buttons?
    2. Should I tuck my shirt collars inside the blazer or flip it out?
    Thanks.

    1. 1. High enough not to show cleavage. Anymore than that is up to you based on how well your shirt lays with the various options.
      2. Leave them inside the blazer. I beg you.

    2. 1. Don’t show cleavage. I usually leave two undone – the collar button and the one right underneath it.
      2. INSIDE the blazer.

  18. Does anyone have any experience hiring an architect for an addition and update? I’m struggling to find a “normal” architect who’ll design a “normal” addition for a typical American family, not someone who does mansions in Newport or avant garde statement houses. Maybe all the architects like to put those designs on their website, but they’re happy to do normal houses? And Houzz is beyond overwhelming, so that’s tough, too. D.C. area if anyone has recs.

    1. You may want to back into this: ask around for recommendations for General Contractors, and contact those guys. They will have an architect they trust in their back pocket. Your GC isn’t just the lead dude swinging a hammer, their job is to totally manage these projects from design to build to finish and they often do some of the design work with you. You might put an inquiry out to your neighborhood from Nextdoor.

    2. I’m DC area too (MD side) and have been itching for an addition (just a nice master & master bath in the back of our 100 yo sears kit house). It’s fairly common in our neighborhood, so I’ve just been watching them go up, and have been taking notes on the contractor company signage for when it’s time for us… maybe just keep an eye on your neighborhood? Also ask around at work/parent groups? We got a great recc from my husband’s co-worker for a significant kitchen reno & they same folks are putting in an addition and we’ll probably get quotes from them as well if they are happy.

      1. Try Nextdoor. There should be recommendations for architects from your neighbors under the “Recommendations” section, or you can put up a post asking for recommendations. Or you could try talking to contractors to see if there are any architects they have worked with in the past for similar jobs.

    3. We used an architect for our addition who was someone who regularly worked with our contractor. We really liked our contractor, so that worked out well for us. And the architect was waaaay less expensive than someone with a standalone practice would have been.

      as for finding a contractor, asking around.

    4. Yes, I’ve hired an independent architect. I think Houzz and the like tend to attract design build firms that only want jobs that cost $$$$$$$ – one firm we got a quote from was insane, like $1200 per square foot (when a realistic number is like $150-300). Eventually found a reasonable guy via plain google searching. You want to look for independent people and can possibly get recommendations from GCs.

    5. You can work with an architect or you can go design build. Design build is where the house designer works for the contractor. Many times these people are not actually licensed architects. Signed drawings are typically not required to get a building permit for a home remodel. The contractor does not “manage” the architect unless it’s design build. There is a lot of variation out there. I would recommend interviewing a couple different people before you decide.

  19. Lately, I’ve been having a lot of friends and coworkers complain to me about a desire to lose weight/not gain weight. Normally, I just try to shrug it off. But it’s really annoying because each of these people weighs 50 to 75 pounds less than me and is objectively not overweight ( probably US size 4 … maybe size 6). I know their comments aren’t directed at me intellectually. But it really feels like they’re saying that I’m so fat and they would hate to be my size, and I don’t know how to not take it personally. for what it’s worth, I don’t talk about weight or food issues so I’m not starting these conversations. Any advice on how I either get over this or shut down the conversations?

    2. I feel like I may have done this when feeling self conscious about my appearance or wardrobe. In my case, the insensitivity would have been because I thought the person who weighed 50-75lb more than me looked fabulous. I do believe it’s rude to bring up weight regardless so I’m not defending anything.

    3. I try to empathize and to remember, it’s not necessarily about the weight. It’s about whatever measure/feature is causing you to not feel comfortable in your own skin. I can relate to wishing I was little bit taller or wishing some other feature was different. And I also take stock of my features that are considered desirable (great hair, skin and nails, hourglass figure, nice smile, etc). Everyone has things that they like and dislike about their appearance and they aren’t a reflection on anyone else

    4. My parents are hardcore like this (& my female friends too- which drives me bananas, because from my view, they are beyond perfect already). Just ignore & re-direct the convo. I refuse to get pulled in and with really close/family friends have actually asked them to stop (I have a young daughter, who I’m sure will likely struggle with her weight too (because genes) and don’t really want her to hear this stuff at home either).

    5. Even at “normal” BMI, a few pounds over your typical weight can make you really uncomfortable in your clothes and affect athletic performance. I don’t think their 5-10 lbs weight loss journey isn’t valid just because they aren’t technically overweight. It’s not a reflection on you. But I don’t think it’s out of line if you tell them you’re not interested in talking diet at work.

      1. +1 I am short and have gained 10lbs over the last year. Because I’m short, it looks like a lot more than it is and none of my clothes fit right. Not trying to make you feel bad for the way you look, but everyone can have a valid struggle here.

        1. If they want to focus on losing weight, that’s up to them but I don’t need to hear about it. This is not a great comparison but maybe it’s like the circles of grief. Yes their clothes will fit better if they lose 5 pounds. But that’s not comparable to the impact and societal view of being fat and obese. The difference is that losing weight could have a drastic impact on my health by lowering my blood pressure and other risk factors and make me a socially acceptable size.

          If your garage just burned down, you wouldn’t complain to the person who’s house just burned down. They’re just not of the same magnitude

          1. I don’t think the circles of weight grief are totally linear. I think there are in-between weights at which people can look like a chubby, out-of-shape version of a thin person (uncool everywhere) or more like a hot version of an overweight person (like an overweight actor on television or a plus size model in a magazine who might still be “cool”). I still think it’s wrong to bring up weight and that larger people get more social opprobrium, but if I were choosing a goal weight out of a menu of choices, they would definitely not be ranked small-to-large.

    6. Don’t engage. You won’t be able to stop them and it’s not appropriate to say “diet talk is sinfully boring, annoying, and inappropriate” as much as it might be tempting to do so. I’m with you on not discussing diets or weight at work and I’m actively trying to not discuss it at all. There truly is nothing more boring than someone hyperanalyzing her own diet and body size and I do not wish to be a boring person.

    7. I have “diet talk.” Hate it. I wish it wasn’t considered a normal part of female conversation in the US, and I generally try to aggressively shut it down. (Note, not all conversations about weight/diet are like what you’re describing, obviously, but I know exactly what you’re talking about.)

      Look, I can tell you, as a recovered anorexic that they’re not thinking about you. That it comes from a place of self-hatred. That you can actually be completely nonjudgmental about others’ bodies while hating your own. Because that was all true for me. But I’m not sure knowing that helps in the position you’re in. “Getting over it” is likely to involve doing a lot of emotional work on yourself that takes time. I support doing that (because emotional health about your body is good), but I also support shutting these conversations down. It will feel awkward, but it will help. Scripts, which vary based on the relationship/situation – for most of these, other than the friend one, the key is to be fairly breezey with it, so your co-workers react thoughtfully rather than defensively:

      “Honestly, [friend], you’re not overweight and I am, so it makes me feel badly when you talk about being terrified of gaining weight/wanting to lose weight. Can we not do that?”

      “Oh man! If we’re talking diets, I’m gonna bail because that is a no-fun conversation, and I need to wrap up this project anyway. Ciao!”

      “I have found that I’m a ton happier since I stopped talking about weight with people, so how about something more fun. Did you do anything awesome this weekend?”

    8. I wish I had better advice for you, but I find myself just not hanging out very often with these folks. It’s not that I would end a friendship over this, but I prioritize hanging out with people who are enjoyable to be around. Talking about your weight is not enjoyable for me. If I really value a friend then I will have a heart to heart with her about it once. But beyond that, no sorry, I have other friends I can barely make time for, they’re going to get first dibs on my time.

    9. I get drawn into this a lot because I have recently lost a lot of weight. If people complain that they can’t do what I did, I say “You have to be motivated for yourself. Nobody else can provide that for you.” If someone asks me about what I did, I will talk about it, but I don’t bring it up. I also don’t talk about needing new clothes, etc., except with my friends who are in a similar situation (a couple of us did this together).

  20. i work in higher ed and we have a current freshman (rising sophomore) who will be earning $85,000 this summer at his computer science internship, which is significantly more than I make in a year. just had to share with someone.

    1. Wait, what?! An $85,000 annualized salary? Sure. $85k for two months of work? That’s impossible. Source: I work in tech.

      2. Yea, this is like saying a summer associate at a law firm makes $160k for their summer position. That’s the salary the pay is based on, not what they earn in the aggregate.

    2. I work with a woman whose son is in a computer science grad program at Stanford who is made similar internship money. He out earned his mom’s annual salary in a semester. I don’t think that’s an annualized number.

      1. Ok, but that’s a grad student not a freshman and may be a longer internship. I mean, sure a start-up could be throwing $85k at this kid because they raised millions and feel like giving it away, but $85k is in no way a normal or even common summer internship salary in Silicon Valley, especially for a freshman who knows essentially nothing.

    3. I live/work in the bay and could totally see this happening. A friend at google is making about $500k/yr. He’s experienced, but not management or particularly high level. The cost of living is ridic in the area (not that you can’t get by on a salary like that), but some companies basically throw money at talent to recruit & keep them on various projects. And I thought the $50k big law summer associates made was a lot. :)

      1. Your friend is lying. I worked at Google, and have many friends (including several with PhDs) who work at Google. Nobody but executives makes $500k. Google salaries are actually slightly lower than average for the area, because of all the perks of working there.

          1. 400 to 500K is totally normal for an engineer at Google in their 40s (i.e. someone senior but not in management and not executive).

      2. The 500k probably includes stock. They just threw stock at a relative of mine. Like seven figures, mid management.

        1. He is getting like triple paid his base for being on a project that ended, a project that is ending, and a new project- he didn’t say what he was making, but I kind of surmised.

    4. My younger brother is graduating with an engineering degree this spring and will make $2k more in his starting salary at a large corporation than I make now as a 31 year old with a master’s in public health. Sigh.

    5. That’s got to be an annual number. In case people are curious what kind of salary you earn as a CS major, I start my CS and EE new hires with master’s degrees, all of whom have above 3.6 GPAs, right about $100k. For B.S. degrees, I’d expect about $80k. Most of my friends are CS majors from Stanford/MIT/et al, really really good at what they do, and, we earn $140k-$250k 15 years after graduating, with most concentrated around $150 – 160k. (And yup, we talk about money a lot!) Engineering and CS is a great field, starting salaries are high so you can save lots when you are young, but are salary trajectories are relatively flat. I’ve heard of a few cases of people being offered $250k, or $300k, but those are really rare, for people with a specific rare knowledge, and, I don’t think those people generally maintain that for their whole career.

      1. +1. Engineering has good starting salaries and if you’re competent, you’re never going to be scraping by on $50k/year, but the salaries don’t grow like they do in law and finance. Most engineers, even in the super HCOL areas like SV and Seattle, generally top out below $200k. The only way to get mega rich is to found a company (or join an early stage start-up and take equity) and then have that company really take off. It’s not unheard of and I have several friends that were worth tens or hundreds of millions before 30. But you won’t earn that kind of money working at Google or Facebook or Amazon, as s*xy as those companies are.

      2. Still sounds lovely to this art major who is doing well making 90K 20 years post-graduation in a very HCOL. Why did I never talk/think about money when I was a teenager??? (Partly because I came from a privileged upper middle class background, so this was all my choice and I try to own that.)

      3. OP here. That’s low. Most of our undergrad CS graduates get offered at least 100k as their starting salaries.

    6. That’s an annualized salary. I’ve heard of individual contributor engineers earning 400k in a year. However, they have more than 10 years experience, longevity of the company, and special additional skills/responsibilities.

    1. She is my favorite so far. I watched her town hall the other night and I really liked her answers, especially her willingness to say “no” she doesn’t support some things that are more ‘out there’ like free four year college for all. I’m from Iowa (don’t live there anymore though) and am very hopeful she’ll do well there because of the geographic connection. Iowa and MN are very similar culturally.

    2. I think its shameful she’s running given her treatment of her subordinates. Her policies are very meh and I’m not sure what she’s bringing to the table thats different any other generic right leaning dem, but her behavior as a boss pushes her into a hard no from me.

      1. What would you prefer policy wise? And is any of the bad boss behavior confirmed, or is it more the rumor mill? I’m not challenging you- I really am just not up to speed on this.

        1. I’m not the person you’re responding to but I think she has admitted to some of the stories about her bad temper in the office.

          I just want a nominee who will win, honestly, and I’m worried she has too much baggage. I know it’s a double standard. I know such behavior would be tolerated or even admired in a male candidate. It bugs me that we have to think this way. But we can’t afford four more years of the orange moron.

          1. This. She has too much baggage. Bernie has too much baggage. Warren has too much baggage.

          2. Yes and agree with Anon at 2:43. We just need someone sane and competent.

            Enter Joe Biden. He is more moderate and likable for the masses, has good name recognition, and knows how to run a government. Him with a younger MOC/WOC (Castro?) VP choice would be money.

          3. Biden has Anita Hill though? Don’t get me wrong, I like him personally and would be happy to get to vote for him, but that seems like as much “baggage” as the fact that Amy supposedly yells at her staff? Booker is supposedly gay. Harris isn’t popular with progressives because of stuff she did as a prosecutor. Gilibrand is closely tied to Hillary. Beto had a DUI. I’m not really sure who in this race doesn’t have baggage.

        2. I have some friends that have worked on the hill and verified the stories of her treatment of subordinates. I think there are plenty of other candidates that are just as good or better, especially given those stories.

  22. Any recommendations on managing adult ADD at home/in the workplace? I’m an attorney, big law, and could use tips on staying organized, managing symptoms, etc. TIA!

    1. I would suggest seeing a psychiatrist. I’m a biglaw associate with ADHD and I really struggled to manage the symptoms at work. I’m now prescribed Vyvanse which really, really helps (couldn’t do my job without it) for productivity and organization. I see a psychiatrist to help regulate that, and also see a psychologist every other week for CBT therapy – really useful for managing symptoms at home and for developing non-medicinal habits that can help. I am still figuring it out myself, but those two steps are what have helped me so far.

  23. Anyone spend time on Lake Ontario, NY in the summer? We are spending a week in Sodus Point NY – husband and son love the sport fishing but haven’t been there in 20 years and the area seems to have grown up nicely…wineries, restaurants and golf club there now….any recommendations are much appreciated!

    1. My parents live about 20 minutes away, here are some recommendations for the Point / nearby.

      Restaurants:
      Pultneyville Harbor Grille (nicer restaurant for dinner)
      Original Candy Kitchen (old school diner for breakfast / casual lunch / homemade candy)
      El Rincon Mexicano
      There’s a number of restaurants right on the water in Sodus that I haven’t been to in a decade but I recall having waterfront views and/or live music.

      Wineries:
      Young Sommer Winery is about 10 minutes from the Point (although if you are interested in wine, I would drive the hour to the Finger Lakes where you will have many more options)
      Lagoner Farms (farm stand that has cider/beer tastings)

      Activities:
      Chimney Bluffs State Park (good hiking)
      Pultneyville which is the next town west has a community theater (Gates theater) and some seasonal weekend events (they host a community garage sale that is known for antiques) if the dates match up to when you will be there.

      1. OP here….thank you so much! The area sounds lovely!!….we are outdoor lovers so plan to enjoy the lake – swimming, fishing, kayaking…and we will definitely check out the Chimney Bluffs hiking. So good to your restaurant recommendations…we are impressed with the options for dining and the wineries that seem to have sprung up everywhere. My husband remembers Sodus Point as just a little fishing village 20 yeaars ago:)

    2. Secon El Rincon. Not fancy but extremely good food.

      Otherwise the food will be fine, not particularly interesting. You could head down to Geneva for the day if you want more options. But personally I’d stay in Sodus and focus on the lake views.

      1. OP here…Excellent! Great to hear there is extremely good Mexican there….looking forward to the lake views:)

  24. Heading to Florida for the first time in years. A couple days at Disney then looking for a quiet, sandy beach to build sandcastles and collect shells with the kids. Trying to decide between Sanibel Island and Anna Maria Island but getting totally overwhelmed with the options on where to stay – open to resorts/condos/rental house but want pool access too. Any recommendations?

    1. I loved South Seas Resort (On Captiva just north of Sanibel). Went there for a wedding and then back for a vacation with my husband. It’s beautiful and very family-friendly.

    2. I was just visiting Sanibel two weeks ago. It’s lovely, but I will say, that a few of the beaches (like Turner Beach) have pretty limited parking. Bowman’s Beach is better in that regard, and it has shells for days! Lots of shells!

    3. Not to throw another option your way, but I’d check out Marco Island. Sanibel has the quietness and definitely shells — but it was a little too quiet for us, not a lot of options for food, etc. Only single lane roads with low speed limits. Marco had two lane roads mostly and more places to eat. The Hilton and Marriott both have great pools and beaches.

  25. Where do I find appropriate dresses for a preteen attending a wedding? Dress code is “semi-formal/formal” (men asked to be in suit or tux). My daughter is only 12 but is almost 5’9, so is well out of girls’ sizes. The wedding is in the upper south, very nice outside venue, evening wedding+reception with dinner/dancing. Much if what I see in Juniors is way to skimpy, and she (very sensibly!) wants to wear a regular bra.

    1. Old Navy or Banana Republic Tall sizes. Online has the best selection. I would do a basic solid color dress and she can play around with more youthful accessories.

    2. Have you tried J Crew’s kids line (Crew Cuts) – it goes to Girls 16, which is a womens 4-6. Their dresses are sweet and charming and not too twee.

      I have a similar problem, but mine is older and they fashion is skimpy and short for home coming/school dances. It’s hard to find anything a bit less skimpy because the style for girls is so short these days.

    3. I applaud you for trying to help figure this out with her. I also was that tall as a 12 year old and my mom had me wearing dresses that I still think are too old for me (and I’m almost 40!). I hated being tall then because of the terrible clothes. Fortunately as a woman, I think being tall is wonderful; you just have to age into it.
      I don’t think you’re going to find anything in juniors because she is too tall. I’d try Nordstrom c0cktail dresses in the women’s section. If she wears something on the shorter side (meaning mid-thigh), it can look younger. Also I think a fit and flare style skews younger and I think that’s still trendy.
      This is going to be an issue again for events like prom so your time spent now will be helpful later.

      1. Thanks. It’s definitely a challenge, since she’s close to Tall sizes but not always the right shape, yet, for women’s clothes. She says she loves being tall and wants to hit 6 ft even; heh. I like the idea of a fit and flare; that does look younger and can still be semi-formal (or close enough for her age). I also just discovered David’s Bridal has a junior bridesmaid section. Some of those might work!

    4. Also try Boden, unless she is very long of waist. They will have a ton of tall, lovely occasion dresses in a month.

    5. My niece got an amazing dress from Ted Baker for her bat mitzvah. High neckline and very appropriate for a religious service. Not sure what you want to spend, but that’s a brand to look at.

    6. My niece got an amazing dress from Ted Baker for her bat mitzvah. High neckline and very appropriate for a religious service. Not sure what you want to spend, but that’s a brand to look at.

    8. I was in women’s clothing by that age. Any brand that targets women in their 20’s is probably going to have appropriate things – J Crew, Reiss, H&M, Zara, Elizabeth & James, Rebecca Taylor, French Connection, BCBG, Nordstrom/Bloomies, etc. Junior clothing tends to be a little more “going out” styled in my opinion. At 5’8″ she shouldn’t need tall sizes, just stay away from mini dresses.

    9. I would look at J Crew in adult sizes. They work well for my tall, non-curvy adult self.

    1. Thanks! Cute, but she’s out of a girls’ size 16. Usually they are too short (this one might cover her bum but barely!) and sometimes too tight in the chest/waist.

  27. J Crew’s wedding collection in women’s sizes may work as well. Many of their “bridesmaids” dresses are on the sweeter side but don’t scream bridesmaid.

Comments are closed.