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Updated: Mar 1, 2023 208 Comments · by

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Mid-Rise Pull-On Flat-Front Pants

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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A woman wearing a black top and red pull-on pants with black heels

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

How pretty are these pants from Anne Klein? This rich shade of red stands out, but isn’t as aggressive as a lipstick or fire-engine red, and the pull-on style is super flattering. I would wear these with a camel turtleneck this winter and a breezy white blouse this summer.

The pants are $99 at Dillard’s and come in sizes XS–XL. They also come in black.

JM Collection offers a plus-size option (in a brighter red) in 0X–4X; it's $23.73 final sale at Macy's.

Sales of note for 9.30.24

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

    • Vicky Austin

      I love them! And I love Elizabeth’s suggestion of a camel turtleneck. Red and camel is such a great combo.

    • anon

      I adore them but unfortunately gave up shopping for Lent. Otherwise these would be on their way to me!

  2. Anon

    How do you all pay attention and keep engaged on Zoom calls where you’re not a key player and you’re there just in case your topic comes up?

    We have a standing one hour call with a client every week. I’m a specialist just there in case my speciality comes up – which it does every 5 weeks or so for 3 minutes…and invariably I’m not paying attention and have to ask them to repeat themselves because the odds of me being needed during any given call are so low. No chance of me being excused from the call.

    • anon

      I have a lot of calls like this. I just do other work stuff and try to listen out for my name or other words that might indicate I need to chime in. We don’t do video calls, so sometimes I’ll just walk around and unload the dishwasher or do some other mindless task that allows me to listen.

      • Anonymous

        I would do this. I‘d go off camera and do some thing repetitive like folding clothes or unloading the dishwasher so you can still listen but not have to focus. Then jump on camera the second you need to. Sitting on camera and focusing for an hour intently is painfully tiring to me.

    • Anon

      I’d figure out some task you can do that allows you to listen enough that you’re up to speed. It is not a good luck in front of a client to need to be brought up to speed. For example, deleting random stuff on your desktop, deleting and foldering email, scrolling LinkedIn to add people and leave comments, knitting or doodling off-screen. But really the answer is that if you’re needed that infrequently you probably don’t need to be on every time; a compromise could be offering to be available so you can join instantly if your specialty comes up, or joining for a smaller portion of the meeting.

    • Anon

      I like to do something mindless – like scroll through threadup for clothes to buy so I’m occupied but not so occupied I”m not paying half attention.

    • Cat

      Is the context from the rest of the call relevant to your specialty? If so you should really… just listen. If it’s well known that these calls are 95% irrelevant to you, can you say you’ll block your calendar but to avoid unnecessary billing, someone should just ping you if you need to join?

      • Cat

        oh I just re-read your post and say no chance of being excused, so can you say you’ll be multitasking and not billing but otherwise ask them to give a shout-out to you if your topic is on deck?

    • IL

      It depends on the predictability of the call. If I know that parts are truly irrelevant, I wash dishes, chop and peel vegetables for dinner, or vacuum during the call. These tasks are mindless enough that I retain the information being presented but am too busy to be bored. One of my colleagues even mows the lawn during a couple of our weekly calls and simply turns off the mower a minute or two before its his turn to present his weekly report, but ymmv with that.

      But honestly? I have one colleague who is never paying attention and asks questions that show he doesn’t listen. People openly don’t respect him and have tried to have him removed from their work in the past. Seeing the repercussions real time are all I need to keep me focused.

    • Anon

      For these types of calls where I just need to half listen, I do something while I am on the call. I might do a house chore like unload the dishwasher, fold laundry, or often I do an adult coloring book that I keep near my desk.

    • anon

      Do something physical where you aren’t looking at other things on the computer. Fold laundry, paint your nails, knit, etc. I find I can pay attention way easier this way than when I get distracted by emails, the internet, etc.

      • shanananana

        yep, this is my move, I cannot listen to people speak and read (Let’s be honest, I think most people can’t) so need to find things that don’t involve words to keep me occupied on calls.

      • Emma

        This is what I do too. I can still kind of listen (and sometimes learn new things from other departments). I have a coloring book that works well for this – I enjoy it and it keeps my hands busy but it doesn’t take over my brain and I can still follow the general discussion on the call.

      • Explorette

        I keep a simple knitting project in my desk for exactly this purpose. Without it, I would be unable to pay attention on these calls.

      • Vicky Austin

        This is the answer in my experience. I think it’s an ADHD phenomenon called seeking optimal stimulation levels (even if you don’t have ADHD I think this is a helpful framing). Don’t double-book the verbal processing part of your brain on another verbal task or emails or whatever. Engage a different part of your brain – manual tasks are great for this.

        • Anon

          +1 to all of this, especially as someone with ADHD. Online jigsaw puzzles (Jigsaw Explorer is great) are my go-to. They engage the visual part of my brain while keeping the verbal part free to listen. If I try to browse the internet or do other work, there is no way I’ll know what’s going on.

    • Dark eyes

      I handle easy emails or play easy phone games (sudoku or freecell) off screen. These keep me busy enough not to disengage without using too much brainpower that I can’t listen and jump in.)

    • Anon

      Oh man, I’m not in this situation often but I was a few weeks ago and I was so checked out that when they called on me I pretended I didn’t hear because I’d gone to the bathroom. It was a six hour call, so a bio break seemed more acceptable than admitting I wasn’t listening. They got back to me when I “got back from the bathroom.”

    • Anon

      I leave my camera on but mute my sound. I move a window I’m working on in front of the zoom camera and do some work. It looks like I’m looking into the camera but I’m actually looking at my spreadsheet or whatever.

    • amberwitch

      I learned a rudimentary visual facilitation during covid (mostly just ways to illustrate ideas and processes when you cant draw), and now I try to drawing what I am hearing to keep my hands occupied and be somewhat focused in these situations.

  3. anon

    If you want to procrastinate today…r/AskaManagerSnark. The AAM background info page is gold.

    • Anon

      Something I have never understood is this alleged distinction between a “formal complaint” and merely raising something to HR.

      I worked for someone like Rob Kampia. I raised issues to HR on a half dozen different occasions. After I sued, HR’s take was that I never “formally complained.” Okay, what is the formal complaint process? Wait, there isn’t one. There are no “formal complaint forms” or whatever.

      The fact that Alison pulled that speaks volumes about her lack of integrity.

    • Anon

      The commenters at AMA are exhausting! Every single person is disabled/autistic/queer/ADHD/chronically ill/left handed/etc/etc.

      • anon

        Anxious, depressed, curly haired (no, really, the posts about coming to the office with wet hair are quite a ride) …

        • Anon

          Don’t forget the misophonia! Truly I don’t understand how these people function in the real world, they seem to need so many accommodations.

          • Anon

            I don’t think most of them are actually working, or if they do work, it’s for brief stints, and then they get fired (or quit over some relatively minor issue that would be workable if they could give an inch in compromise) and then they sit on AAM all day and complain about how terrible workplaces are. I read and commented there a lot a few years back, but the comment section became a grievance/victim-mentality self-reinforcing pit of despair, and I bailed. I still read the column, but rarely read the comments.

          • Cat

            there is constantly someone who wants to come to work with wet hair because they are air drying curly hair.

            I gave up reading a few years ago. It was amusing when I was in law school and a newbie to office life. But it feels like Alison just goes for clickbait, the commenters are so perpetually offended at everything that it’s a wonder they don’t self-combust, and the advice seems out of touch (I forget how long it’s been since Alison actually worked in an office, but it’s been awhile…), so it lost even drama interest from me.

          • pugsnbourbon

            I read it a lot back when I started working on hiring for my department. 90% of the advice for real questions (I bet a good 25% of them now are fake) boils down to:
            1. no, that’s not a hostile work environment
            2. use your words
            3. treat other adults like adults
            4. focus on results
            5. your boss s*cks, start job searching

          • Anon

            Pugsnbourbon, to be fair, the same thing could be said of most of the workplace questions here.

          • Vicky Austin

            @ pugs, I think you’re right. Really there are very few unique questions; nothing new under the sun, etc.

      • Anon 2.0

        I have never, ever seen a group of commenters with as many “issues” as that group seems to have. And everything is an “issue” for them. Everything. Your professional job won’t allow you to wear one orange shoe and one blue shoe? Problem! Push back hard! Why do your shoes need to match when you’re doing your work just fine?! Show up with no shoes on, that’ll show em! Your manager said that you can’t bring your 90s boombox and blast Celine Dion all day? Well, well, well, don’t they understand YOU work better hearing My Heart Will Go On on repeat? You mean I’m not allowed to take up half the freezer with a Dairy Queen ice cream cake that I need for emergencies? How will I ever call a client if I haven’t had my calming scoop of chocolate-y frozen delight first?

        I seriously wonder how some of those commenters hold down a job.

    • anon

      It’s really too bad. Alison had solid advice, once upon a time, but she’s been out of the office environment for years now. And the problems she features now are so over the top that they barely apply to anyone’s work situation.

  4. Would you switch jobs?

    I currently work at a small agency. It is badly managed at the top and filled with entrenched middle managers whose bad behaviors have gone unchecked for years. There are major turnover issues. The two supervisory levels above me just left, I don’t know when the positions will be filled and have no desire to be in them. I’m mostly in an individual contributor role but because of the vacancies, my work load for the time being is increased and instead of focusing on my niche I’m covering more areas. I don’t mind the work itself but hate that I have to work more closely with the dysfunctional managers because of it. I really like my immediate team. I only have to be in the office 2 days a week for now, although there have been talks by higher ups that may increase to 3 for everyone.

    I have the opportunity to go to a much bigger agency, focusing only on my niche. The vibe I get is that because the agency is so large this particular position is pretty insulated from whatever is happening at the top tiers (not true of my current small agency). Con is that I will absolutely have to go in 3 days a week (my strong preference would be to stay at 2 days) and that I have to drive (which I don’t like doing) as opposed to taking the train at my current job (cost is paid for by employer) but overall commuting time is the same. I have an electric car that I charge at home so I don’t pay for gas.

    A negligible pay increase (I’m nearly topped out as a public servant), same benefits, bonuses are negligible, same level of job security. All leave carries over.

    I’m torn mostly about the increased in office part. Would you take the new position under these circumstances?

    • Anon

      The extra day and driving is different – I really get that – but your agency sounds totally chaotic and that you’re likely to want to leave in the next few years anyway. Sounds like overall this is a great job. Is it likely something equal or better is available or is this a rare niche? I’d be inclined to take it. Plus once you have been there for a few months you will know of the three days is super rigid or if there is some flexibility; there are plenty of people at my office who come in like 75% of the required days over the course of the month and no one cares so maybe you’ll get lucky.

    • anon a mouse

      Yes – take the long view, and even though you are niche now, there will be more opportunities to move around, take on other responsibilities, network, etc at the bigger agency. If your current job may go to three days anyway, the question is drive vs train? It’s a pain, but see what you can do to make driving more pleasant. Will they pay for your parking? Can you flex your hours to minimize traffic? Can you use the time to catch up with family on the phone or listen to something fun?

    • Anon

      I’d definitely regret not taking the new position if I were switched to 3 days a week in office anyway! Since that’s a possibility, it feels like it cancels out to me.

      Inflexible minimum days in office policies seem… not smart. I think managers think it’s fair to make blanket policies, but it’s actually just lazy if some roles have different in-person requirements vs. other roles!

      • Anon

        Things have changed. Employers are shooting themselves in the foot if they demand people come into the office when there are plenty of other places to work that allow remote work.

        • Anon

          I am well aware, my point is really that angering over 2 or 3 days is a bit ridiculous.

          • Anon

            It’s not ridiculous. If you can fully do the job from home and are being required to commute an hour each way that is a strain on your time and your wallet for no reason. I’m 100% WFH with the option to go into the office, which no one ever does.

          • Anon

            There’s a difference between getting angry and setting boundaries because people know what works for them. OP doesn’t sound angry; she sounds like she knows what she wants for her life. Good for her.

            P.S., people shouldn’t be obligated to come into the office because other people are lonely working from home, or managers don’t really feel like they’re managing unless they can actually see their people at desks. Lonely people should start volunteering or join a community of faith to get their social-interaction time in, not expect it from their coworkers at the office. And I’m saying this as someone who actually enjoys getting to know coworkers and having collegial relationships. I just don’t think people should use office relationships as a proxy for a family and/or social life. And that’s what seems to be driving so much of the RTO push – lonely people looking for fake friendships. That, and concern over the portfolios of the billionaires who own commercial real estate.

          • Anon

            I hate this line of reasoning.

            1) several of my adult friendships are people I met at work. These have become very close actual friends, not work friends. Like bridesmaid in my wedding, godparent of my children level friends. Not a proxy for a social life, but a large part of my actual social life.

            2) I have a strong social life, an involved in my community, and my family. That’s still not enough to meet my human interaction needs on a weekday. It’s not normal for humans to spend 8+ waking hours a day alone/interacting through screens. Even though I have social plans or plans with a community group 6ish nights a week, there isn’t that much time on a week night after work to socialize. 2-3 hours doesn’t cut it. Also, I’m an anomaly in that I socialize as much as I do.

            Believe it or not, I’m an introvert (just a social and active one).

          • Anon

            @1:26 PM… I believe you that these are real friends. But it’s work. Maybe eight hours of work is too much work (happy to consider that!), but people shouldn’t have to come into the office just so that other people are available to socialize with during work hours and break up the work day.

          • Anon

            @1:26 no one needs to come to the office to do work they can do at home just so you can make friends. Come on!

          • Anon

            Anon at 1:26 – introversion means you get your energy from being alone. It doesn’t mean you’re shy, or you’re quiet, or you’re okay being by yourself sometimes. Introverts have their battery drained by being around people, and need to be alone to recharge. If you’re going out with friends or community groups six nights a week and it’s still not enough interaction for you, I don’t think you’re an introvert. Because that very much seems to me like you are energized by being around people, and drained by spending too much time alone. If I go out twice in a month, that’s a lot for me and I need recovery time after those outings. And I don’t consider myself to be that strong of an introvert.

          • Anon

            Yeah you’re not an introvert if plans six nights a week aren’t enough socialization for you. Introverts can be outgoing and popular, it’s definitely not a synonym for shy or socially awkward, but they still find that much socialization draining.

      • Op

        For years before the pandemic, I was still two days in office. I haven’t been every day in office for over 6 years at this point. Even three days in will be an adjustment, and I think because it’s been so long that I’ve had to be in the office that much, I’m making it a bigger hurdle than it needs to be. But as the other comments point out there are other considerations.

        • No Face

          I would flee your current agency! Driving versus train stinks, but in the big picture this change seems much better for your career. The mental health benefits of working at a functional employer may outweigh the extra day in the office.

      • Anon

        That’s really not true. There were lots of jobs that were flexible about WFH pre-pandemic. I started working from home a lot when I was pregnant in late 2017 and I never really went back. I know not everyone had such a flexible situation, but WFH pre-pandemic wasn’t that uncommon.

    • Anon

      Do you think similar jobs will come up soon, and if so will they be better on the driving/office time situation? I think you do need to leave, but it sounds like a lateral move with slightly worse logistics, so I’d take this one if you think such opportunities will come up infrequently.

  5. Anonymous

    I’m a burned out law partner. Eat what you kill system, no paid time off or leave system. Regional midsize, used to be all older white men with 1-3 women, now we have about 20% female partners. I lead a practice group that has been slow lately, but that doesn’t mean nothing comes in. I would love to take 3-6 days in a row in March without email or voicemail. Any tips from people who have been there? I dream of a sabbatical (I’d have to live lean but I could do it) but fear coming back to no work.

    • Anon

      No email or VM is unrealistic but you could dial it way back for a vacation. Personally kind aim for longer than 6 days (presuming getting behind on billable hours won’t stress you out) set times to check in and manage email, calls, etc. My husband has your job and we take vacations where he mostly unplugs but checks in for an hour in the morning to delegate things around. That way you don’t have the stress related to what’s piling up and you can make sure things are covered while your gone (since you lead a practice group, presumably you can delegate anything that domes in.) I’m also a lawyer but different job, lest you think I don’t get it. This is also one of many reasons why I left a firm for in-house work. Not to say things don’t come up on vacation there too, but it’s easier to manage. I think reframing from all or nothing to managed time off could help you not be so overwhelmed.

      • Anon

        Ps – wow my autocorrect went crazy and I didn’t proof this, but hopefully you get the idea.

    • Cat

      I get that it’s hard when you live by the billable hour and it’s not like you get credit for 40 hours of work when you take time off… but take a real vacation. To minimize FOMO work stress, check emails for half an hour mornings and evenings. Going completely no-contact, to me, is more stressful than just keeping light tabs on things while away.

      • Anonymous

        +1 – I’m a partner at a mid-size firm. In the last 5-10 years, I can’t think of a time I went truly no-contact without it being a health related issue. I usually just plan to spend 30-60 minutes in the morning fielding emails. That tends to be enough not to completely drown and to make sure that everything gets circulated to people to handle. For instance, if it’s a beach vacation, I will drink coffee and sit on the patio first thing in the morning. Is it ideal? I mean, no, it would be awesome to just shut off. Is it worth it? Yeah, for me it is.

    • Josie P

      YMMV. I find it way less stressful to take a REAL vacation, no emails, nothing, with OOO that says “traveling with no access to email” – then catch up when you get back, block the first day back just for email catchup etc. Delegate to someone else to watch your email (my assistant does this) and forward to someone else in your dept if there’s an emergency.
      Source: regional midsize equity partner

    • Anon

      I was in a high pressure job where 24/7 access was expected. I went on vacation irritable and found myself in a stupid email fight with a person who generally annoyed me, but extra annoyed me while I was sitting on a beach in Hawaii. I had to abjectly and unreservedly apologize to this person later in the day, and then that put me in a bummed out mood for more than a day because I was so disappointed in myself.

      Since then, a better strategy for me is to have a planned check in time with email and voicemail every day. Sometimes twice a day. But I don’t respond immediately any more.

    • Anon

      Truly checking out is ideal, but do you have a trusted senior associate/jr partner who can be your backup? I think that would go along way if you told them you needed to handle as much as possible for you that week, and you can only do a daily checkin to funnel items to them.

    • CR

      For years I have joked about writing an article for American Bar Journal about vacation locations without cell service. Once I went to the Grand Tetons and there was terrible-to-no service. It was incredible. Told the people I needed to that I’d check email at 7am and 7pm. Another time — when I was truly burnt out — I went to a weekend yoga retreat and said I wouldn’t be checking email. It was amazing.

  6. bluebonnetanon

    I know there are a few people here in Dallas. Anyone have a good shoe person? I have a pair of heeled boots that need to be at least partially resoled and a pair of heels that have a bunch of nicks and scratches in the heels so those need to be reworked. Any thoughts on a shop?

    • Anon

      I have not used them but have asked this question recently. Highly recommended was Ventura Shoe repair (east Dallas, Buckner and Garland Rd), Rico’s (Mockingbird and Abrams, and Deno’s (Highland Park village). Of course Deno’s is supposed to the the most expensive.

    • Anon

      Romo’s shoe repair at Midway and Northwest Highway in the same shopping center as Central Market. My family has used them for years for shoe repair.

  7. Anon

    How can we stop our dog from waking us up? 5 years old, has slept in her crate until now and would (almost always) sleep in as late as we did without complaint. We recently upgraded to a king size bed, and letting her sleep with us…she does great until about 5:45-6:30, when she starts cuddling up to us or licking our faces to get us up. We typically sleep in closer to 7, or ideally later on the weekends. Should we just start putting her in her crate when she wakes us up?

    • Anon

      If she was sleeping well in the crate before why not just keep her in there?

    • Vicky Austin

      Do you have a command for her that means bedtime? Our goofball dog has only in the last year or so been allowed to sleep out of his crate (he’s not allowed on our bed proper, however). He does pretty well, but if he hears us stir he thinks that means time to get up and he can come lick our faces. We just tell him, “no, time for bed” (even if it’s 6:25 and my alarm is going off in five minutes) and do our best not to react, and after a month or so of this he got it. He still gets up and comes to lick us, but will stop and settle down if told no.

    • anon

      I am generally a fan of dog sleeping in bed, but I’d put her back in her crate/

    • Anon8

      My dog slept in the bed with us for a year or two but she’s a bed hog and we eventually put her back in the crate. Don’t feel bad! She pouted a little at first but she’s cozy in her crate and we are sleeping much better.

    • Anon

      Put the dog back in the crate, not just when she wakes you up in the morning but every night, vs letting her sleep with you. This is why most dog behaviorists tell clients not to let their dogs sleep with them: dogs have very different sleep patterns than humans, and if you want to get good sleep and/or sleep in, the dog needs to sleep separately from you. Letting your dog sleep with you can also create some problem behaviors (in some dogs) if they come to see the bed as “their territory.”

      • Anon

        Oh come on, there’s no such “rule” and sleeping with your dog is one of life’s great pleasures.

  8. anon

    Happy March! I’m starting to think ahead to transitional outfits for cold spring days. What are your favorite formulas? I think I’ll be leaning a lot on floral tops with a heavier top layer like a jardigan. But I’d love some more ideas! This is the time of year when I’m tempted to buy every hot pink thing I see because I’m so starved for color, heh.

      • Anon

        Same. Im wearing pink today, but warm. I also like lavender, orchid, and’s dusty blue for this time of year. And I always gravitate toward any color that is between green and blue, from about mid to dark.

  9. Anonymous

    Trying again this morning to see if anyone has any experience taking Abilify?

  10. anon

    Anyone else having trouble with their posts being moderated? I posted on the mom site yesterday and it never posted. And I just posted one about late winter / early spring work wardrobes and what everybody is wearing in March.

    • Cat

      You’re using terms that send you straight there. Anything with the word s-te or the phrase tr-ns in it, to name a few.

    • Anon

      Are you the person at 9:42? It was t r a n s itional. The t-word is banned. Was the moms post the one about Disney? I think that post might have gotten stuck for the word s t u p i d.

      • anon

        I’d forgotten about the T word but I had no idea about the other one. OK, will phrase things differently.

        • Anon

          Re: s t u p i d, that’s just my guess of what it was. I don’t see any other word in that post that would be a hang up and I vaguely recall having one of my own posts sent to m0d for that word.

          • Anon

            I end up in m0d sometimes for no known reason. It’s the mod gods, I just let it lie.

    • Emma

      I posted something about sweaters a few days ago on the moms site that never made it through. I later realized I had used a term that our resident bridge dweller with an odd fixation on certain women’s garments uses, which I guess sent it into mod oblivion.

    • Vicky Austin

      The moms s!te is pretty slow sometimes, and my comments disappear periodically over there. (Usually they show back up in a couple hours though.)

      I honestly sort of wish exc3ll3nt would get taken out of the bad-words list – it gets used so frequently in non-Ell3n contexts that surely it’s not actually that helpful anymore?

    • Senior Attorney

      I think the word e x c e l l e n t will send you to mod, for reasons I can’t begin to fathom.

      • Senior Attorney

        Ah, and I have my answer from Vicky Austin. Didn’t reallize it was an Ell#n thing.

  11. Dark Eyes

    Talk to me about concealer – I’m usually a drugstore make up person, and my go-to concealer (L’Oréal Truematch) is OK, but I’m wondering if it would be worth the hassle to try something higher-level. I have very pale skin and mostly need it for dark circles. BTW, I’ve tried the Instant Age Rewind one that people seem to like a lot, and didn’t like it as much as the L’Oréal.

    Recommendations? Or just stick with the one that’s good enough and doesn’t require an extra trip?

    • Anon

      I love NARS creamy concealer, it’s really popular for a reason. I tried to use drugstore concealers to save money and it was not worth it.

      • anon

        Not the OP, but I think I’m going to try this one. I’m currently using Age Rewind.

      • Anon

        I’m a long time NARS radiant concealer person but today I tried the new Bobbi Brown concealer that is in the same format (like a lipgloss, I don’t know the name for that kind of packaging) and it’s also a winner.

        I admit I have been halfway watching makeup videos while I do some routine work, and I really like Hannah Martin. She advises to tap your concealer in with your ring finger, and she does it for a lot longer than you’d think. Since I started doing this, my concealer sits so much better. I dab it on, smear it around with a brush as a first pass, then pat pat pat.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I didn’t like the Age Rewind either. I’m too cheap, but I have friends who swear by Smashbox and Tarte concealers.

      • Anon

        Just be warned that Tarte shape tape (which is the concealer that all the influencers use) is REALLY heavy and full coverage.

        • Anon

          Yes it doesn’t work for anyone with even slightly loose undereye skin. Ask me how I know!

    • London (formerly NY) CPA

      For dark circles, have you thought about using a corrector instead of a concealer? I use Bobbi Brown corrector on my undereyes and it looks way better than concealer on me (also quite pale).

    • anon a mouse

      I’m a fan of Glossier stretch concealer. I sent them a photo and they helped me find the perfect match. (actually I’ve been really happy with everything from Glossier, I wish they were available in brick and mortar stores though.)

  12. Anonymous

    Well I thought I put on a matching suit today then got to work, looked down, and realized the blazer was an entirely different pattern, so that’s how my day is going. At least they’re the same color. Are we sure it’s not Monday?

  14. Anon

    My husband has this terrible habit of not acknowledging another person often when they are in the room. E.g., I walk in from upstairs as he is making breakfast, say something, and he ignores. He does the same thing to my kids or even guests at times (!!). I DON’T think it’s personal as he is often fine otherwise, having a good time with us an hour later, or even saying something himself in 10 minutes! Anyone else experience this? I have talked to him about it before but never understood where it comes from. Other than again sharing that this does not feel great, anything I can do?

    • Anon

      How’s his hearing? Mild hearing loss can appear to outsiders as inattentiveness/ignoring. We’re going through this with a kid right now and I feel horrible for all the times I scolded her for not paying attention.

      • Anon

        This was what I was about to say. My husband also does this, especially in the kitchen. He can’t hear me over the background noise of the fridge or running water. He’s seen an audiologist who doesn’t think he needs hearing aids yet, but specifically called out the need for family members understanding and not trying to talk to him from another room or with lots of background noise and then blaming him for not hearing.

      • Anon

        +1 this is my first suggestion. Hearing test! I have full hearing loss in one ear and am always missing when people say things when entering a space I am in.

    • Emma

      My husband hears fine but has a kind of hyperfocus where he gets really into whatever he is doing and completely tunes out external stimuli. It makes him good at his job, and terrible at sustaining a conversation while also looking at his phone or just thinking about something else. We have had a lot of talks about this, because I will say things and he will just completely ignore them or say ‘uh huh’ and then never register. He tries to make an effort, and to some extent I’ve accepted this is who he is and only convey important information when I have his full attention – which sometimes involves saying “hey I need you to put down your phone/ actively listen because I need to talk to you”.

        • Cat

          I can be guilty of this. The worst is when I’m multitasking, my husband says something that I actually DO hear but don’t register, I start asking him to repeat himself but then my brain processes what he actually said and I interrupt my own d*mn self to answer the original comment, lol.

    • Anonymous

      Have you asked HIM what’s going on when this happens? If so, what has he said?

    • Curious

      No advice, just snark. What is it with men doing this?! My husband had to make an active effort to learn to greet the baby when he came into the room with her. That said, there was a lot going on, and he’s great about it now except when extremely tired.

    • MagicUnicorn

      Mine does this, and also the counterpart where he grabs his keys and walks out the door without saying a word to anyone. It drives me up the wall. Is he grabbing something he left in the car? Running to the store for a last-minute ingredient? Driving himself to the ER? Running away?

      We have talked about how disconcerting it is for the rest of us. He truly doesn’t see anything wrong with it and does realize now that he needs to respond when we ask him where he’s going. Or he might tell me at breakfast on Friday that he plans to run to the hardware store sometime next month and thinks that covers it. Maybe my expectations verge into oversharing; it just seems so rude not to acknowledge that sort of thing.

      • Vicky Austin

        “tell me at breakfast on Friday that he plans to run to the hardware store sometime next month” dying laughing at this, I had no idea my husband had a secret brother out there!

      • Anon8

        My grandpa was famous for this! We’d be at a big, extended family gathering at their house and someone would eventually realize he was gone, and you’d find him napping in another room in front of the TV or having gone to the hardware store. We always found it endearing, especially since he was a shy guy and I think got overwhelmed with the big rowdy family. He just passed away in January and made me a little misty-eyed to type this out. That does nothing to help your situation though, although I can see how it’d be infuriating if it was my husband doing that!

      • Senior Attorney

        OMG this has me howling with laughter and also it would drive me totally insane, too. Good grief!

      • Curious

        OMG my husband does this, too! He’ll just get up from the dinner table sometimes and walk away and it’s like… are you using the bathroom? Are you done with dinner? Are you on a work thing? He has been working on it because he knows it upsets me, but it mystifies me that people wouldn’t tell others where they’re going.

        • Curious

          Meanwhile he’s much better than I am at checking plans in advance, so don’t let me paint myself as a saint.

  15. Anon

    Does anyone have any advice on how to avoid cultivating a victim mindset, for lack of a better phrase? I’m going through a situation right now with a family member with several mental health problems, one of which is a very strong sense of victimhood. I’m trying to phrase this sensitively because I know that that is a loaded word, but I can’t think of how else to describe it. There is an intense focus on things that have happened to him in the past, very little acknowledgment of his own role in making a better future, and no acceptance that everyone goes through problems. There is more to it, but I won’t write a novel. It’s not on me to fix his mindset, but unfortunately, I fear it’s contagious! This entire situation has resulted in so much stress, and I feel resentment that it’s “happening to me” and kind of powerless to change anything. I am practicing good self-care, but it doesn’t seem to be enough, and I think I could use some concrete advice on books to read or types of therapy to try to make sure that I can be resilient and protective of my own mental health. Any suggestions?

    • Anon

      You can’t fix someone else. Why are you letting his problems impact your life?

      • Anon

        This. I could have written this post myself. I have a family member that is very unhappy with their life but won’t take any responsibility for it so there’s no way they can make any changes. Unless this person makes the decision to improve their life, there’s nothing anyone can do. I’m sorry. It’s really tough!

      • Anon

        His problems ARE affecting my life – that’s not in question. How could it not when a crisis blew up overnight? When someone you love is in crisis, you do try to help – and it’s recommended too. Family support is crucial for recovery. But it’s exhausting and hard to navigate. That’s why there’s a whole industry of support groups for family and caregivers.

          • Anon

            Depends on the family member. My sister is like the individual OP is describing, and we’ve never been close – so I don’t engage, but I do have to deal with the implications on my parents, who have not been able to just cut one of their children out of their lives.

          • Anon

            Really – are you this cold with all of your friends and family?

            She obviously cares about them. Most people don’t want to abandon people you love, especially if they are sick. Mental illness is hard to navigate for the person who is ill, care his hard to find and expensive and part of being sick is often not doing what may be best for you.

            Many folks never get better without family help/support. It is incredibly hard at times. I’ve been through it multiple times with family members. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t.

        • Senior Attorney

          If it’s your husband, then okay I can see your point. But sibling? Parent? Other? Nope to the nope. You are not required to volunteer for this.

          • Anon

            Exactly this. I presumed from the term “family member” we weren’t talking about a husband or her kid.

          • Anon

            Senior Attorney I normally love your advice, but I think your difficult relationships with your parents and sibling(s?) (which you’ve shared about) is coloring your advice here. My relationship with my parents and sbiling have been overall incredibly supportive, loving, and mutally beneficial. They have supported me in challenging times as much as my spouse. If my brother was facing a mental health challenge, just saying peace out wouldn’t be a desirable option. It sounds like it’s not an option for OP either.

          • Anon

            Yes, it’s correct that I don’t want to “peace out.” That’s not who I am.

          • Poster from 3:21.

            As soon as I hit send, I felt awful for mentioning you individually Senior Attorney and for seeming to use things you’ve shared against you. That wasn’t my intention. I hope you’ll please accept my sincere apology. I meant it when I said I loved your advice. It has helped me tremendously over the years.

          • Senior Attorney

            Thank you, 3:21 — that’s very gracious of you. You make an interesting point. What I meant was literally what I said — nobody is REQUIRED to volunteer for this kind of thing. If OP feels like she chooses to, that’s her choice but I do think it’s worth the exercise to make sure it’s a choice and not just an assumption that it IS required.

            As for OP, don’t judge the “peace out” crowd too hard until you’ve walked a mile in our shoes. In my case, as 3:21 correctly notes, it has a lot less to do with who I am and a lot more to do with who the problematic family member is. (Also for those keeping score at home, I was the only one of four kids who lifted a finger to make sure my parents were taken care of in their old age, so there’s that…)

    • anon

      Therapy for yourself. Mainly because you may need a space to process how this family member is affecting you. But also? It may be time to pull back a bit because this doesn’t sound healthy for you.

    • Anon

      Maybe a DBT skills workshop? What I like about this is that the focus is on concrete things that I can do or say in different scenarios that will at least not make things worse and may actually help compared to what we may be doing by default.

      My family member didn’t have a victim mindset though (more like denial and self-blame and CPTSD), so maybe that is different. But I found myself relying on the same workshop concepts when talking to people who do spiral and focus on the past.

    • Emma

      My ex was like this, and it was a symptom of his mental illness. Caring for someone with mental illness is really hard and will often affect your own mental health, so in that sense it can be “contagious”. Second the recommendation of therapy for you, and to the extent possible, getting help so you are not the only caregiver to this person (which I know can be hard, but in hindsight I should have been a lot more proactive about leaning on friends and family for help instead of being dragged into a spiral of shame and isolation).

    • anon

      Only put in what you can handle, if that’s a call once a month or once a quarter, or just texting or no contact for awhile, do that.

      It actually helps me to look at people I know who’ve gone through tough situations and either 1) dwell on it and don’t live a happy life or 2) figure out how to move on, even if whatever happened will always sting a bit.

      I view it as a choice—I can be miserable amid all the good I do have in my life (like alfie or beatrice) or I can resolve to put my energy on other things beside what went wrong (like carol or doug). It helps me to get busy with good things and to exercise and avoid too much news and social media so I don’t have time to focus on what wasn’t great.

      All that said, I think therapy (even just a couple sessions with someone skilled) can be helpful for many with these feelings.

    • Nesprin

      You tell them you love them, acknowledge that they’ve been having a rough time, and offer to help them find a therapist or whatever level of care would be appropriate. And then that’s it- you are not their therapist.

      In the mean time, you find your own therapist, as you need to take care of yourself to be able to help anyone else.

    • Seventh Sister

      I’d give plain old talk therapy a try. Family stuff is really hard.

      My mom is a champion sh*t-stirrer, and plain old talk therapy helped me detach and realize that I didn’t have to react to her conflict attempts the way I did as a kid.

    • Anon

      This is hard.

      Clearly, this person needs mental health care, and it is unclear if they are getting it. So I would continue to encourage that. When people are mentally ill, they often resist treatment. It is unfortunate, but we talk about it often on this board. And for many people with untreated mental illness, they can’t get past things and make things better.

      I agree that if it is affecting your mental health, and this is a close family member that you don’t want to abandon, it can be helpful to do some counseling yourself just to get ideas on how to deal with it. My sibling did that when his wife was ill and refused treatment initially.

      I’m not great to give advice, as I had to cut one friend out of my life because her unstable mental health and refusal to get help and desire to use me instead was really damaging to me. I feel guilt about that.

      And I have to say… that for some people mental health +/- self medicating vis substance abuse is a life long struggle. A very dear friend’s son had a terrible thing happen to him in childhood… and he sunk into depression as an adult with substance abuse. His family got tired of him not moving forward from it. He committed suicide. I unfortunately know to many young people who attempted or committed suicide. It haunts me and is always in the back of my mind for any loved one with mental illness, and a history of abuse. Don’t be afraid to ask about it. It’s always a good thing to ask.

      • Anon

        Thank you. It’s definitely a refusing treatment and also lack of insight situation, which makes it really challenging. I could do what another family member has done and just completely check out and provide zero support to anybody involved, but it looks so terribly selfish to me that I just can’t handle that for myself. I want to be the kind of person who can be there for family without letting it destroy me. It hasn’t been easy to figure out how to walk that line in such a short, certain timeframe.

        • Anon

          I’m proud of you for taking the hard path and not giving up completely. Lack of insight is just really rough.

          If you are in a situation where crises are happening, I recommend the book –
          “I am not sick! I don’t need help!”
          It is kind of a classic, although many of the case studies are people with very severe mental health problems (bipolar, schizophrenia) where lack of insight is part of the disease. But much of the advice on communication is helpful.

          I also recommend looking for your local NAMI organization, and see when their Family support groups meet. Go a couple times. You an explain your situation, hear others share their experiences, and you can often learn about resources and strategies. I found it incredibly helpful.

          I was able to get my severely ill family member into treatment and the results were remarkable. It was a slow road though.

          Good luck.

          • Anon

            Thank you so much. I just bought the book the other day and I’m glad to hear that it helped you.

    • Anon

      I have a couple of friends with the victim mindset. Both have legitimately been through traumatizing stuff, but – I realize this is going so sound horrible – they are not particularly interested in moving on. I know it’s a cry for attention but I am only human.

      I’m still their friend, but I also need to have friends who are interested in me or something other than themselves, so I try to balance the two. In other words, I limit my time with the victim friends.

    • siblings...am i right

      I am going through this with my sibling now. They are a little father down the road than your family member, in that my sibling is now actively working on being sober and getting support externally from the family. But we did have a crisis blowup earlier this year that rocked our family bonds and was a direct result of my sibling’s victim mentality combined with refusal to see that the things bothering them were all the consequences of their own choices.
      I got a new psychologist who has been great and am working on navigating my relationship with my sibling. I believe I am a trigger for them, which became apparant during the aforementioned crisis, so I am changing the way I interact with them. For therapy homework I am reading “How to Be An Adult in Relationships” and it is helpful. It is about romantic relationships, but I skip those parts and focus on the other bits.
      Sibling relationships are important, and although my sibling has a complicated and challenging inner life, I want to be there for them in whatever way is most healthy for the family. Someday both my parents will be gone and it will just be us. The work I am doing now means that I will be giving my sibling relationship my best effort to create and maintain boundaries.
      The thing I am working on now with my therapist is differentiating between my sibling’s anger and abuse. If my sibling is angry with me, that is fine. When it crosses the line into abusive behavior, that is not fine. We were a yelling family, so our default is yelling. For myself, when i am emotionally charged, how can i be upset but not abusive with my actions and tone. It is challenging, but for me, worth the effort. Even if my sibling never recovers, i will have done my best and gained some skills.

    • Anon

      Thank you all for the responses and for the suggestions. It’s a hard road and I just hope I can find a path that isn’t too rough. I know that I can only control myself and I just need some tools to do that better while still offering support, especially to the loved ones who are suffering even more than I am.

  16. Casual Work Conference

    I’m wfh so I’m super out of touch with what people are wearing into the office these days. I need to attend a week long casual work conference in Austin in April. What are the cool kids wearing for casual office clothes these days?
    Jeans and sneakers are ok, but I’m a mid level manager so I definitely need some polish.
    8/10 slight pear and very much a jeans and tshirt kind of gal.

    • Cb

      I have some nice linen joggers which I wear with a sweater in winter and a nice stripe-y linen tshirt in summer.

    • Cornellian

      I’m not sure, either, but I will note that Austin will (probably) be very hot and humid in April, depending on where you’re coming from. But probably the conference will also be refrigerated so you can be freezing inside if you dress for the outdoor weather, ha.

      I’m seeing a lot of interesting non-traditional blazers/jackets (moto, cropped, patterned) but I’m a millenial lawyer so take that for what it’s worth.

    • brokentoe

      Same size, same question but a conference in Seattle the first week of April. Fairly casual conference, but as a consultant I need to take it up a notch.

    • Anon

      Honestly, I’d wear a good pear of jeans (nice modern cut, fitting well, dark or black), interesting but comfortable shoes (probably a step up from sneakers), a T-shirt, and a cool blazer. If you think it will be hot enough to take off the blazer, I’d make sure the T-shirt was nice enough to stand alone.

      • Anonymous

        I’d do exactly this, but I would wear sneakers, because that’s what gets lots of use in my everyday life, so buying a new pair or two would serve me well.

        If I were you, and you’re buying new, I’d buy the elevated version of whatever you naturally wear, so that you find plenty of use for it after the conference.

      • Anon

        This is basically my uniform except nowadays I will wear sneakers (albeit stylish ones). I just can’t care about shoes unless I’m speaking, in which case I’ll rock something amazing.

    • Anon

      I’d wear whatever pants you like – jeans, trousers, whatever you feel good in short of leggings – and a blouse you don’t mind wearing on its own, with a sweater blazer as a third piece. You want to be able to take the jacket off to dial down the formality or deal with warmness, but you’ll probably be in an overly air conditioned space and will be thankful for the jacket. The cool kids are wearing unstructured, oversized blazers right now, which may not be your thing, but pretty much everyone is selling a sweater knit jacket with no waist shaping, and that ought to do it.

      Pants wise, just a note, I wore the Athleta Brooklyn tech pants to a recent conference, and several women asked me where I got them. I wore them mainly because I had a knee injury and wanted something that wouldn’t put any pressure on it, but I’d wear them again just because they’re so comfortable. I have navy and black, and both are pretty dark colored and look like regular ankle pants from a distance.

  17. lz5

    New Yorkers — recommendation for a restaurant (preferable UWS) that will do a set menu for a negotiated price for a group for an event? It’s for a small birthday birthday party (10 adults) and the plan is to pay for my guests but hoping to find a place that will pull together a few options and charge me a set price per person as opposed to having people just order off the menu. Thanks.

    • Anonymous

      We did something like this for our small rehearsal dinner and many restaurants we looked at had this as an option — either on their website or by emailing their contact person and they sent back their pricing/menu options.

  18. anon

    I’m strongly considering taking Fridays off this summer. Or at least a month of Fridays off, to get longer weekends and have more time for summer fun. Has anyone else tried this approach? Did you get pushback from your bosses about essentially going part-time temporarily? I’m trying really hard to start living for myself more than I live to make people at work happy. It’s a work in progress.

    • Anon

      This isn’t how I choose to spend my vacation time, but I don’t see why you’d get pushback if you have the earned time. In many ways I think it’s easier on your boss than team than using 5+ days at once for a vacation.

    • Anon

      I’ve known people who have done this and I think it’s a great idea, especially if you don’t have the time to take off one larger chunk. Some offices do summer Fridays anyway!

    • Anon

      A woman where I last worked did this every year for the last couple months of the year. It was no big deal. She had tons of PTO because of tenure, and not enough money or activities or desire to take it off in big chunks, so she just took every Friday off to run out her PTO starting in like September.

    • pugsnbourbon

      Do it! Use your PTO!
      I am so mad at myself for leaving a ton of PTO on the table at one of my previous jobs. The building would have remained standing, and I probably would have been more sane.

    • Anon

      My husbands large F500 company gets summer Fridays (end work at 11:30/noon) and I’m so jealous. But, even as someone who doesn’t get Summer Fridays, most people I know log off between 2-3pm in the summer. We live in a frigid part of the Midwest, so people take summer VERY seriously. You should absolutely use your time!

    • Anon

      I’ve heard of lots of people who do this and I’ve never heard anything negative about it. I think it’s a great way to use up PTO.

  19. Anon

    Is anyone following the student loan case? And can you translate it for non-lawyers?

    • Moose

      Yes! Would love to hear what others know about it – fellow non-lawyer here.

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