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Updated: Sep 22, 2020 413 Comments · by

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Midi Shirtdress

The Personal Shopper (TPS) | · ·

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This white poplin shirtdress is just so effortlessly chic. The sleeves bring just a bit of drama, but the silhouette is classic and lovely.

I’m not a big bracelet person (too much clanking against my keyboard), but I would wear this with a statement cuff or bangle. Maybe this one from Kate Spade?

The dress is $265 and available in sizes that run roughly equivalent to dress sizes 10-28. Midi Shirtdress 

Two more affordable options are from ASOS: this white cotton poplin dress in sizes 0–14 (on sale for $45) and this black ruched-waist dress in sizes 12–22 (on sale for $47). 

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Sales of note for 9.30.24

Sales of note for 9.30.24

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Paging Big Goals

    Late to the party Friday…how about flossing daily? To get started, buy some of those pretty colour flossing picks near the kids’ dental stuff and leave them in a bowl on the counter to stay top of mind–regular roll floss once the habit is established.

    Can’t speak highly enough of the Habits app on Android or teuxdeux.com in general for organising/tracking.

    Good luck!

    – DB Cooper

    • Anonymous

      I bought cocofloss, and something about buying “expensive/fancy” floss has really helped the habit stick. I got two thumbs up for my hygiene from the hygienist last month. Hey, whatever works!

    • Ellen

      I wish my ex knew what dental floss was/is. He brushed his teeth every other day or so (pee-yoo), and usueally had food stuck between his teeth, especially when he ate corn on the cob. I would never kiss him until he brushed. But he never flossed b/c his gums were to sore, he said. As a result, his teeth were yellow and dirty even if he had no visible food in his teeth. PTOOEY! I think there ought to be some kind of regulation or dental practice requiring daily brushing and flossing, tho his dentist probably would not make as much money from people if they had clean teeth and breathe’s that do not smell like open sewers like his did. DOUBEL FOOEY!

    • Anonymous

      This dress is too much even for the model. If she can’t pull it off, no one can.

          • Anonymous

            Love Tracee Ellis Ross. OTOH, she is a fashion contrarian. If she can pull it off, pretty sure I can’t.

            IRL, I have some friends who are big girls (like shot-putters, with giant shoulders and sturdy otherwise) who maybe aren’t pulling this off from any fashion standpoint, but probably would appreciate something designed for a non-waif.

          • Anonymous

            Maybe one of those three, but only if it fit better. It’s too big for the model.

    • Kate

      I live the other dresses and jumpsuits from this brand! Check out their site. This particular dress is probably the most starchy/formal looking one, which I get fits more of the ‘rette classic vibe, but I really think many of the jumpsuits and dresses are showstoppers. If you’re a curvy lady looking to support a woman -owned business, there are some beautiful pieces!

      • pugsnbourbon

        I clicked around and you’re not kidding – really, really gorgeous! It’s probably a good thing that the sequin jumpsuit is sold out because I wouldn’t be able to stop myself.

      • Anon

        WOW thanks for pointing this out. This is like my grown up fantasy closet if I were Cher from Clueless.

    • Anonyz

      There was ONE day in my life that I dared to wear all white, and the only reason I succeeded is because I had a literal set of maids to help me eat, drink, and pee. This is a hard no.

      • Anon

        I am a complete pigpen, but my family jokes that I work from home in all white (to remind myself it’s summer), drinking coffee, dropping my pens, cat jumping on me, cooking whole meals from scratch, but somehow I end up pristine. It’s a mystery, because I manage to get stuff on the seat of black pants and dresses on the regular.

    • Anon

      This dress looks like her robe got bloated and it is doing no favor to her figure.

    • Yes!

      I actually love this dress, and I think it looks great on the model (especially on the designer’s website with a bigger photo). It’s fun and quirky and special. I’m not sure I could pull it off because I’m not confident enough, but I wish I could. I also don’t agree with the idea that the purpose of fashion should be to make every part of a woman’s body look as small as possible.

        • Anon

          I agree. I think people are reacting negatively because it is not a traditionally figure flattering look. But that doesn’t have to be the point of every single item one might wear.

          If you look at the website of this designer, the look seems to be bold, colorful (in most cases), and fun fashion. Someone who enjoys volume and beautiful fabric and doesn’t always care about looking as thin as humanly possible.

          • Anonymous

            It’s not about how thin the model looks. It is that the dress appears to be a separate entity that has swallowed her, rather than a garment that she is wearing.

  3. BB or CC with sunscreen

    Could someone please recommend a BB or CC with sunscreen? I may have to face the facts that I’m never going to wear full foundation again. TIA

    • Equestrian Attorney

      I bought the Laroche Posay Toleriane CC cream with SPF 30 and really like it. Feels light, decent but natural looking coverage, did not irritate my sensitive skin. There was only one color option at the store though, so depending on your complexion you might want to try it out or check out if they have other options available.

    • anon

      Not exactly what you asked for, but I love Neutrogena’s Protect and Tint tinted moisturizer. It is SPF 30. BB and CC creams tend to be too thick for me (I feel like they are just as heavy as most foundations). I also have problems with a lot of products with sunscreens in them not absorbing into my skin if that makes sense. The Protect and Tint is sheer coverage, but is just enough.

    • rw

      I really like the dr jart bb cream. It just evens my skin tone a bit, doesn’t really provide coverage, is spf 45. For more coverage I really like the Estée Lauder futurist hydra rescue. It’s very light weight and hydrating with spf 45

    • SuperAnon

      I use Maybelline or IT! Cosmetics. The IT! has more coverage, but both are lovely.

    • Anon

      If your skin tone is hard to match, add a drop of regular foundation and mix it in with your morning face lotion. That’s what darker skin women have been doing for years as we’ve been ignored by the bb and cc cream train and it results in sheer coverage and super moistruzed skin.

    • Kitten

      I like Erborian BB Creme, it’s fuller coverage. For my “minimal” makeup days I just wear that with creme blush, brow pencil, and mascara. I also have friends who like the It! Cosmetics one as their foundation.

    • pugsnbourbon

      I’ve been pairing NYX Mineral Veil with my SPF 30 moisturizer. Nice sheer coverage but it makes a difference.

    • Ribena

      I like the Body Shop one. It’s the one from the makeup range rather than one of their skincare lines

  4. ANON

    This is a somewhat political question but I can’t really ask it in real life.

    I live in a blue city in a red state. We are run entirely by blue politicians, as are so many of the cities and states where the awful police shootings are. I have seen so much saying vote, vote, vote to stop this violence, etc. but I am honestly confused as to how voting will make a difference when the cities and states where these things are happening are already blue. It seems like we are wanting more implicit bias training, more diverse police forces, etc. – and I totally support those things, 100% – but that would be implemented at the local level, and if any change is going to be made, it would be in the Dem primary. Am I missing something about how voting in November is going to change this? I get the tone from the top but I do have a hard time believing that will actually make a difference.

    Thanks! Also, love this dress.

    • Anonymous

      I live in a very blue area and there’s still room to make changes by voting. Pressure your mayor and council on defunding. Vote in primaries. Pay attention to your sheriffs race. Obviously not every jurisdiction has a relevant election this November but many do.

      • anon

        I feel like I really do not understand the ‘defund the police’ movement. I understand the intent behind it, but I don’t understand how it’s supposed to work in practice. Is anyone willing to explain?

        • Curious

          There’s a great Atlantic article on this (search “what does defunding the police actually mean?”)
          But I think we might not actually know how to operationalize the transition.

        • Anon

          There is no one that can explain because the defund the police movement is not being lead by policy analysts, there is no analysis that actually identifies all the variables and their impact and proposes a metrics based solution. Such a document does not exist. No one has done the work on how such a concept could be implemented.

        • Anon

          It’s a crappy slogan with solid intent. In a lot of jurisdictions, the police have become catch-all social services first responders. The idea is to scale their scope of practice and funding to what the police force historically does – law-enforcement – and increase the funding for all the other things they’ve more recently become expected to do, so professionals in those fields can be hired and have manageable caseloads – social workers, public health workers, counselors, etc.
          The police do serve an important function, but when we expect law enforcement professionals to do other professions’ jobs, is it any surprise that they do those jobs through a law-enforcement lens?

          • Anon

            This is correct. No one with a gun needs to show up to a minor traffic accident or issue speeding tickets or other inherently non violent situations.

            Police are trained to handle violent situations violently. They don’t seem to be especially well trained in handling situations that require more diplomacy and negotiation than arresting someone at gunpoint. You have a gun, you’re going to want to solve things with a gun.

            It’s like they say about surgeons – when the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

          • Anon

            No police officer *wants* to solve things with a gun, not even those who really, really, really shouldn’t be in LE or are in it for the wrong reasons. That’s a very reductionist take. There is a lot more to LE than using deadly force. Hell, one of the biggest abuses of police power in my region had nothing to do with shooting and a service weapon was never drawn – a single deputy was caught planting drugs on over 100 people. These were folks who were easy targets – poor, not sympathetic defendants, minor records pre-arrest. No reason for it other than his own messed up shits and giggles. The people arrested have been exonerated, most were already living pretty close to the edge and have to rebuild their lives.

        • Anonymous

          With the caveat that I’m not an expert or an advocate, my understanding is that the idea is that a lot of work and resources we’ve delagated to the police can be allocated to non-police forces. Like a neighbor being noisy or a fender-bender or a social welfare check can be handled by someone other than the police, who wouldn’t have a gun but would be as well-supported and compensated as a police officer but less likely to inappropriately use force.

          I’m not totally opposed to the idea of say, more well-compensated social workers handling certain things that the police officers handle now. However, I do suspect that it’s difficult to know when,for instance, something like a fender-bender or a social welfare check might turn violent.

        • Anon

          The basic premise is to move bloated police budgets (which are 50% or more of the city budgets in some places) into other services that directly interface with the public to reduce chances of violence. It’s basically a “the police incentivized to arrest and escalate, so we need public servants whose job is to help people, not whose job is to enforce the laws.” Remember police legally have no obligation to help the public (this was decided at the Supreme Court level).

          So we shift money to services that really don’t require police but currently utilize police like, welfare checks, traffic workers (directing stop lights and assisting after accidents) , not sending police to medical emergencies. Those are wastes of police resources and just a cover for bloated police overtime expenses and an excuse to harass the innocent. It also leaves money for paying social workers more and hiring more so they are not stretched as thin.

          It’s honestly pretty practical.

        • Anonymous

          There’s so much on this on the internet and it has been explained her multiple times! I encourage you to research it. The basic concept is that we should not have robustly funded militarized police departments while we have non existent social services. It sees police continuing to play a role in society but not all the roles. In my municipality for example the current fight is that instead of spending a million dollars on bias training from a program with terrible results, divert that money to restore funding to after school programs for teens.

        • KW

          My understanding is it means reallocating resources to provide alternatives to the police responding to certain situations. For example, let’s say someone is agitated, talking to themselves, yelling, etc. outside a public place like a gas station or grocery store. So someone calls the police. They respond and….do what? Arrest the person for disorderly conduct? An alternative would be having a social worker type of person respond to assist someone who is under the influence, having mental health issues, etc. and attempt to get them the help they need, rather than putting them in jail where they then end up back out on the street. If there is a real crime happening, like a robbery of the store or that person is assaulting a shopper, then the police would still respond.

          • anon

            In the case you just described though, the police most often would take that person to a psych facility, not jail. The real problem is that psych facilities do not have the capacity to hold and treat people, and the laws do not permit lengthy holds. Long-term involuntary commitments are quite rare, which means a continuous cycle of 48 or 72 hour holds. The person is not getting any real treatment and just cycles in and out. How would the social worker in your situation be better equipped to handle a mentally ill person than the psych hospital resources? And what would that social worker do if the person becomes violent? A person under the influence of something like PCP could pose an extreme danger to an unarmed social worker.

          • Anonymous

            I get that, but how is the 911 (or 311, our non-emergency city services line) operator supposed to decide? With just the facts from the caller? How do I know if an agitated person who may be mentally ill is a danger to self or others or just needs a referral to services? We have an older couple on our street where I think that the wife may have dementia. I believe that she sometimes gets violent and agitated and hits her husband. I don’t know how that sort of call works. I don’t know if there are guns in the house or it would be safe for a social worker to go in solo. The good news is that they and their situation is known to our neighborhood officer (but perhaps not the guy who covers for him when he is on vacation or not working that shift).

          • Anon

            You are fortunate to not be poor poster @ 10:52. No police do not always, and in some cities rarely, get someone mental health needs. Say for example a person is pacing and suicidal. Police will often violently tackle them or shoot them, even if they only are threatening themselves with say a knife to the throat, then run warrants on them, search their home and car for anythingto arrest them on, and arrest them for resisting arrest or a warrant on a traffic ticket or city fine on a misdemeanor. Then they will be sent to jail and your tax funds will pay thousands a day to keep them there. Only the wealthy and/or (sadly) whites (and mostly women, white men still get injured) get gently talked down and led to a medical facility paid by their private insurance.

            Literally google “police kill suicidal” and “police kill welfare check” to come up with several cases if these things turning wrong. Most recently the poor young black girl who was shot sight unseen no warning while playing video games because she forgot to shut her front door and a neighbor called a welfare check.

            Police are rarely helpful in mental health situations

          • Cl

            Do you not understand how incredibly dangerous it would be to send social workers (i.e 21 year old women) into situations like those? That also includes neighbor disputes and traffic incidents. Even firefighters will be accompanied by police in a lot of situations. There’s a reason they send the police.

    • Z

      Great question. Voting in November means trying to get a tyrant out of office. That’s step 1, if we don’t vote him out absolutely nothing will get better. We must vote for progressive leaders at the local level too! It does not end with voting blue, though, you’re right, we must hold leaders accountable and keep marching and protesting.

      • Anon

        What tyrant? The man has bent over backwards to not use the power of his office during a pandemic to take control – which puts him in sharp contrast with the majority of governors out there. The man has repeatedly offered but not forced help on blue cities awash in violence and protests. He’s the only President in decades to not start a new war in office, and has actually gotten our troops out of the Middle East.

        I know that the media tells you he’s a tyrant and has said it so much it must be true, but Trump is obviously anything but a tyrant. He has two of the most classic excuses for heavy-handed control (violence and pandemics) and has refused to take them, even when it might be politically popular. THINK FOR A MINUTE and stop believing everything the blue checks on twitter tell you.

        • Anonymous

          “The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” – George Orwell, “1984”

        • Anonymous

          God, you have got to be kidding me. He hasn’t started a war in office because he can’t even get that right. He’s tried might hard to start a war with Iran and North Korea. He has abused his office at every possible turn. He has completely abandoned the country to this virus and as a result, the U.S. is near the top of the list for infections and death IN THE WORLD. Implementing emergency public health measures are not an abuse of power; they were the responsible thing to do and it was only because we lacked the leadership at the national level to stick with it long enough to achieve what we set out to achieve that it didn’t work. He completely neglected the country’s dire need for PPE, testing, and contact tracing, and 180,000+ people have died as a result. And thanks, but I’m not even on twitter. I actually get my news from reliable news sources. But you know what? You don’t even need to these days because everything you need to know is coming straight out of his mouth (kissing up to dictators, suggesting we drink bleach, saying that neo-Nazis in Charlottesville are “very good people”). He’s an embarrassment of president and a traitor. And come November, he’ll be a lame duck. Come January, a former president. And hopefully come March, an inmate.

          • Anonymous

            This. I feel like a lot of Americans don’t understand how much worse the covid situation is in the US compared to other developed countries.

        • Anon

          Your main issue is that the Presidentis supposed to lead, so you’re proud of the fact that he actively hindered coronavirus preventionand recovery strategy (remember the refusal of ventilator stock pile, nit putting into place the national testing strategy that they had, calling it a HOAX!).

          In addition, that man has encouraged white supremacists and domestic terrorists, done everything he could to enrich the pockets of his cronies off the backs of the middle class, is dismantling nearly every environmental protection we’ve spent 30 years building, is directly linked to working with a national enemy, started trade war with China based on nothing (and causing delays in raw products for US made goods), is defunding the tax that pays for social security, and is actively screwing up the USPS to steal an election without considering the business and elderly that rely on it to function. Do we need to get into his clear violations profiting from the office and all the members of his teams convicted of crimes? I’ve missed so much more.

          Why are you proud that this man has refused to govern where he had the constitutional power to do so, but has flouted the law in all ways possible to enrich himself? If you’re proud of that then you should be ashamed to call yourself an American. This is not anti-Trump issue.

          It’s a country over party issue.

        • Anonymous

          He casually mused about canceling the presidential election. Did you miss that?

        • LaurenB

          “I know that the media tells you he’s a tyrant and has said it so much it must be true, but Trump is obviously anything but a tyrant. He has two of the most classic excuses for heavy-handed control (violence and pandemics) and has refused to take them, even when it might be politically popular.”

          Right. He could have taken control and implemented or at least strongly encouraged swift lockdowns and mask mandates. He could have shown personal leadership by publicly wearing a mask and encouraging people to do so — heck, he could have sold MAGA masks at $25 apiece for all I care, as long it got people to wear them. But he didn’t. Normal people would interpret this as “he fell asleep on the job,” not “see? he’s not a tyrant, what a wonderful guy he is.”

      • theguvnah

        It’s a great question and i would add that city council and schools boards are where lots of actual work to defund the police comes into play – is your city’s school board making sure that there is no police presence in their schools, or do police roam the halls and facilitate the school to prison pipeline?

        Does your city council fund police programs for community efforts that would be better served by community groups, not the people with guns and violent tactics?

        “vote blue” extends all the way to these levels and that is often where very tactical and local change happens.

    • Cb

      I think at the federal level, the government can incentivise more sweeping police reform. Whether this can be achieved with a Republican controlled Congress is another question.

    • PNW

      A lot of it is the blue wave idea. Massive turnout, even in states where it doesn’t make a difference, means massive popular vote victory as well as electoral victory. It makes the optics of “contesting” the results less convincing.

      • Kitten

        Agree with this. And as another more shallow reason, its’s really embarrassing to have Trump as the president, especially when I’m talking with my European family and friends. I live in one of the bluest states but want everyone around the world to see Trump suffer a devastating popular vote loss.

    • Anon

      Unless your issue is corporate taxes, you can’t vote for a party and get the results you want. When the issue is police reform, you want things that go well beyond implicit bias training (which actually does not work). You need:
      Reform of no-knock warrants
      An assessment of whether or not judges are properly granting warrants or are so busy they are rubber-stamping them, and reform if it’s the latter
      Elimination of asset forfeiture
      Reduction of other policing for profit (e.g., traffic tickets being used for revenue)
      Reform of the prison system

      Those things don’t just cross party lines; you get people from both parties who disagree and people from both parties who want that reform. You ultimately need candidates, actual people, who have thought about these issues and are willing to implement the changes, not just “if I vote for this party, this better result pops out the other side.”

      • Anonymous

        That is a good point — no-knock warrants, forfeiture, and condemnation abuse (areas declared blighted are ones that tend to be poorer and minority core city neighborhoods vs ones of better off people) are issues that my republican friends actually agree on. I get why there are no-knock warrants, which is that drugs can easily be flushed, but my guess is that that only works for low-level dealers (vs the Walter Whites of the world) and that you can easily get low-level dealers otherwise. And if you are armed, nervous, and at the wrong address, horrible mistakes can happen (in my house, the police shoot the dog that gets alerted, but if we shoot first (we don’t have guns though) thinking these are intruders, you have a Breonna Taylor situation).

      • cbackson

        The only party that is essentially unified on those issues is the Libertarian Party. I’m not encouraging ANYBODY to vote third party this fall (and there are plenty of Libertarian policies I disagree with), but for ideas of what you could push your Democratic politicians to do when it comes to reforming the police and restraining the use of state police powers, Reason magazine explores all of these issues in depth and discusses concrete potential fixes, as does the Institute of Justice site.

        • Anonymous

          I agree with you. There are a lot of well-thought-through positions that ought to find appeal across the aisles. My R friends aren’t religious or socially conservative and are very pro-civil liberties and let’s stop bad criminal policies (which would also lead to things like expungements happening more broadly and not locking up so many people, but being very targeted with who goes to prison). Those ought to be more universally fought for and I shake my head that they aren’t.

        • asdf

          I voted L in the 2016 election – but I live in a state where one candidate had a 20 pt lead.

      • Anon

        But now it’s completely taboo to cross party lines (or compromise) because it means you’re a fascist. I feel like a lot of liberals are spending their time defending themselves against baseless charges instead of finding a way to get their ideas into action. How can we also reform the political culture to try to get some things done?

    • Anon

      Don’t underestimate how much a red state hinders the actions of a blue city. Cities get their police powers from the state, so if the state governor restricts something the blue city’s hands are tied. Just look at Houston and covid. The mayor and county judge tried to mandate masks and associated fines and the governor literally said “no” only to agree to such restrictions after the city had already become the covid capital of the state. They want blue cities to fail, so voting in local and state elections is pivotal.

    • anonshmanon

      Police brutality and racism is nothing new. What’s new is a president who stokes the flames through his adversarial messaging, teargassed protesters for a photo op, sends federal troops to Portland against the wishes of the local administration, jokes about how he’d love to arrest reporters, suggests that kneeling in peaceful protest is worthy of punishment, never speaks one bad word about his allies, whether they are charged with murder, perjury or child sex trafficking. Him using all the powers of his office to get reelected is a step too far for all the people who are protesting a rigged system.
      This kind of unrest didn’t happen under other presidents in recent decades.
      Two clear federal aspects of this mostly local issue: the law that police may buy excess equipment from the military, is a federal law, which Obama put on hold, but Trump reinstated. Police unions are the only unions who have endorsed Trump. And once you declare loyalty to him, there is a lot you can get away with.

    • Jeffiner

      I feel the same way when everyone tells me to “Call your Congressman!” “Call your Representatives!” “Call your City Council!” Yeah, they are as red as red can be all the way down to county clerk. They don’t care one whit for my opinions or any other caller’s. They won by comfortable margins in the last election, that’s the only statistic that matters to them.

      • PNW

        That’s all true, but at the congressional level at least they do tally calls/emails and they keep track of what opinions are expressed. So I do it because it makes it more difficult for them to pretend that no one in their district has a different opinion or that they are uniformly representing their constituents. Even if they roll their eyes and toss it in the wastebasket, for a moment I was heard. Makes me feel better anyway.

    • AIMS

      There is actually a lot that can be done at the federal level! The House passed a Justice in Policing Act in June that probably won’t be signed into law (because of the Senate and the White House) but that has a number of good reforms. Not to mention that local police departments get a lot of their tanks and other military equipment (which most of them do not need) from Fed Govt sales/grants, the Fed Govt can easily incentivize innovation in policing thru grants, and the Justice Dept can play a role in punishing any bad actors. Plus, the federal courts and SCOTUS play a role in things like qualified immunity (which SCOTUS invented in the 80s and then interpreted in such a way under Rehnquist that it basically raised the bar for anyone alleging a constitutional violation against a govt agent).

      All of this will be affected by this election, and, while we still live in a democracy, even the GOP will be watching which way the wind blows this year.

    • Anon

      I’m late to this thread, but Trump is fanning the flames of violence every. single. day. How many disaffected young white men are going to look at the Rittenhouse situation, understand that white supremacists are SUPPORTING MURDER, and get encouragement to follow Rittenhouse’s example? Things can still get worse. Can you imagine what he and his cronies would do without the constraints of running for reelection? (This is assuming that if he wins, he will vacate office in 2024.) The most important thing we can do in the near term is get Trump out of office. I listened to an interview with Mary Trump recently on Kara Swisher’s podcast and her election analysis resonated with me. She said that if the election is close, Trump will fight and claw and the people around him will encourage him to fight to essentially steal the presidency. If he loses in a landslide, his narcissistic and anti-social tendencies kick in a different way–as a defense mechanism he will say “see you suckers, the Presidency is actually stupid and I have bigger and better things to do now” [like being a Fox commentator or whatever gets him the adulation and attention he craves]. We have to make sure the election is a landslide to GET HIM TO LEAVE OFFICE.

  5. Weight Watchers

    Hello all,
    I posted on Friday and am following up. If you are interested in joining a Corporette Weight Watchers support/accountability group, I’m going to try to organize something this week. Please get in touch at abd331333 at the email of g dot com.

  6. Data

    Someone yesterday wanted data on defunding the police. Look on the Gallup site, at the poll on police presence in the community. Also look at the BLM polling. Most people are aghast at police violence but don’t want to lose the protection the police provide to their communities. Can we now have a discussion of other p solutions, like enacting national policing standards and fixing the 1983 caselaw (on when police action constitutes a constitutional violation). Others more plugged into the legislature can let us know what has been proposed that we can support to make a difference.

    • Anonymous

      My city has had huge spikes in violence, but not police violence. If you are poor and live in a violent neighborhood, you don’t have good grocery or shopping options. If you take the bus, waiting for it is dangerous. If there is a shooting next door, bullets may hit you. I don’t see how this violence is helped by fewer police or increasing response times. My children’s classmates have to sit home alone or with relatives while on zoom school and aren’t even allowed to go outside to play. I really don’t see anyone addressing these problems that are true problems in my city (all elected officials are Ds and probably 80% of them are Black / women / minority or all of the above).

      • Anon

        Yeah, those problems aren’t helped by defunding the police, but I have heard few ideas on the left (of which I am a part) other than “defund the police” and “when we fix the problems in society, we won’t need police.” …OK? How does that stop six-year-olds from getting shot in the meantime? I wish we were having a more serious discussion about reforming the police unions, complete data transparency on all police uses of violence, etc.

    • Anon

      We also need to talk about union reform and legislation to prevent bad cops from shifting to other forces (currently DOA in the California legislature). Let’s find a way to do actual reform that doesn’t throw out the good.

      • Anon

        That message has been extraordinarily muddled and is not helping the cause right now. We need a new slogan.

        • Anon

          +1 yes, this. Because there are plenty of anarchists etc that DO mean abolish the police and the slogan does a terrible job of differentiating what it actually means. The potential mass acceptance of this slogan is going to hurt democrats in the election. Sorry.
          (And trust me, I want blue to win).

        • PolyD

          Retrain the Police, maybe? They need to be reminded that they swear to serve and protect ALL Americans. And that protesting is entirely legal, the vast majority of protestors are not violent (shouting does not equal violent) and they shouldn’t treat us like they are military in an occupied country.

        • LaurenB

          Marketing 101 – “defund the police” is a HORRIBLE slogan that plays right into the hands of the Republicans. It could have been “re-imagine the police” or “re-invent the police” or “re-configure the police” or any of a whole host of things. Whoever came up with / popularized that slogan just wasn’t thinking.

      • anon

        Tell that to the New York Times, which ran an op ed on June 12, 2020 entitled “Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police.” There doesn’t seem to be much consensus on what “defunding the police” actually means, as different people are arguing for different things all under the “defund the police” label.

          • anon

            Well when a major national newspaper publishes that headline, it certainly does lead many people to think that abolishing the police is in fact literally the goal. And then it turns many of those people away from the left, which we discussed yesterday.

          • Anonymous

            That isn’t even the NYT position. Can we sort out opinion pieces from news coverage? Letters from a publisher vs. letters from a reader? That’s the OPINION of Mariame Kaba and she is speaking for herself. It doesn’t mean that’s the view of the paper or the people who work there. Just like you can’t take on rando tweet from Trump or Biden and claim that’s Jack Dorsey’s view. Diverse platform access isn’t commitment to each contributor’s thought.

    • anonshmanon

      Prison reform – locking someone up is the punishment, after that, they need to get reintegrated and not commit more crimes. The way our current prisons are set up, this cannot be achieved, the results are recidivism and profits for private prison companies.
      Sentencing reform – the punishment needs to fit the crime. Harsh sentences for drug use are mainly applied to black people. Stacking up charges to force defendants into deals is not right.
      When it comes to shifting funding from police – there are some things that police seems unable to fix, despite their funding exploding and overall crime rates going down, both for many years. A traffic stop can do without the tension of guns. Why does a rape survivor have to go through the police at all? Why can a 911 call about a mental health crisis not go to a crisis counselor?

      • Anonymous

        Not sure about the 911 calls, I don’t think people escalate to 911 unless someone with mental issues is either threatening themselves or others and the police are the best first responders. Reading the local blotter for a few months, folks have been scooped off of bridges and the local police have responded to workplace violence and domestic violence complaints and to a fortunately unsuccessful attempt to suicide by cop.

  7. Fleas in house

    Has anyone dealt with fleas in their house? We had this problem first come up in March and bombed the house with stuff that our bug guy gave us. Unfortunately we were supposed to bomb again after 2 weeks and were a bit late and had the problem come up again about a couple of months or so later. So we bombed the house 3x in 3 weeks. But now we have the problem again. We have one inside cat and we treat her with Revolution every month. She is old and mostly stays upstairs anyway. Any ideas or advice? We are bombing the house again today.

    • Anonanonanon2

      I grew up in an old (1800s) house and this happened to us once. Same situation, we had a completely indoor cat that was fully treated and old. Turned out there were squirrels in the attic with fleas.

    • Anon

      The garage of an apartment building I once lived in had recurring fleas even after bombing and it turned out that raccoons were getting in at night. I’d investigate whether you might have flea bearing rodents getting in somewhere.

    • so much cleaning

      We have young kids, so didn’t want to use insecticides inside. We tried diatomaceous earth, but it was too tempting to my preschooler.

      We got rid of fleas through daily vacuuming of every floor, with the addition of mopping on hard floors and vacuuming the underside of rugs. Soft furniture got vacuumed daily, bedding washed on hot every other day, bed crevices vacuumed, bookshelves vacuumed, lots of stuff cleaned then put away in giant plastic bags so we didn’t have to deal with daily cleaning of extra things.

      Also important was treating the outside yard. So far, we’ve tried diatomaceous earth, a clove and mint oil spray, and beneficial nematodes. This has reduced, but not yet eliminated, the fleas. We live in a city, near a wild area, so lots of small mammals run through our yard.

      Any advice on eliminating fleas outside?

    • Anon

      I think you need a new exterminator- it’s been proven that flea bombs don’t work well enough because they are temporary, don’t reach places where the fleas are (like under sofa) and don’t kill the eggs. Also, they are bad for pets. He needs to come out and treat with chemicals that kill the eggs too, and you need to vacuum/steam clean everything you can.

      • Anon

        +1. The bombs obviously aren’t working. I got rid of fleas by vacuuming everything every day and washing anything that could go in the washing machine on hot water.

    • OP

      Thank you for all of the replies!! We did have a possum get into an outside air vent where one of our AC units is and years ago had a squirrel in the attic. We did not think of treating the attic so will do that. I also had the same thought that what the bug guy has been giving us is not sufficient. Thank you for helping me think through this!

    • SC

      I dealt with this issue a few years ago. We used the flea bombs, made sure our cat was treated, and washed the bedding (including places where the cat slept). Then I vacuumed all of the floors and upholstery 5 times a week for about 6 weeks. You need a really strong vacuum to remove deeply embedded eggs and pupae. I also changed the vacuum bag every 2-3 days.

      Oh, and if you have a yard, treat the yard. You could be tracking new fleas in again and again. They can jump on people the same way they jump on pets.

    • Anon

      Siphotrol spray. You can get it on Amazon i think. Spray all the soft surfaces and leave the room/area until it dries. This worked well for my whole apartment infestation, but granted it was a 1 bedroom so not too taxing to spray all the soft surfaces

    • Anon

      Sorry, late to this. I don’t think Revolution works anymore. Our vet said the fleas are now resistant to it and my experience is that it did stop working for us last year. Our cat is now on Cherestin. I also think repeated vacuuming really helps when you are in the midst of an outbreak.

  8. Anxiety talking to boss

    I am working from home until January. I was thinking this would be a good time to look into a problem I have had. Several years ago, around the time that my first child was born, I started having anxiety when my boss would stop by my office to talk about work. I think I was worried because I was having trouble answering questions on the spot about my projects. Then I had a panic attack during my annual review. Now I take a Xanex before those reviews as well as the mid year ones. It has gotten to the point in the recent couple of years though that I feel like I almost have a panic attack just having to talk to my boss when he comes to my office. It is fine if I see him in the hallway and have to chat just for a minute. With the pandemic, I have been working from home since March and thankfully haven’t had any problems talking to him on the phone. But I fear that it will resume when we are back in the office. Has anyone dealt with anything like this or have suggestions? He doesn’t actually come to my office a lot – really only a handful of times a month so it doesn’t seem worth it to take daily anxiety medicine. But before the pandemic, sometimes I felt like I wanted to take a Xanex before having to talk to him.

    • Anonymous

      Hi you’re struggling with basic aspects of your job due to anxiety. Yes. It is worth treating your anxiety! See a doctor!

    • Anonymous

      I assume you are in therapy/ getting treatment for these kinds of issues? Has it been like this with all your supervisors or just this one?

      You and your boss are on the same team. Or, should be. You don’t want to be working for a boss that’s “out to get you.”

      • pugsnbourbon

        When I found myself taking a klonopin before my any check-in with my boss, it finally hit me that things were Not Good. I ended up leaving. If your boss is otherwise supportive and generally good, I think you’d be well served by talking to a therapist.

    • Anon

      To me, this sounds like something CBT could really help! Find a therapist if you can. Good luck, you’ve got this!

      • NY CPA

        Agree. Some kind of phobia you’ve developed. I have something similar (but different trigger) and medication + CBT therapy has worked for me. In the meantime, exposure therapy. Just talk to your boss more. It’s really uncomfortable but helps in the long run.

    • alexis

      Okay you can’t take a Xanax every time you need to have a serious conversation with your boss, although I do get the impulse. I think therapy would be helpful here. You may not need daily anxiety medicine, but you should be able to navigate these potentially stressful but normal conversations without taking a Xanax. A therapist can teach you skills and techniques to control your anxiety in situations like this.

      Your boss may also be horrible and toxic, in which case I think at this point you need to be job searching. But a therapist will still help you unlearn these behaviors.

      Does this literally only happen at work? Did it happen in school or as a kid?

      • OP

        I appreciate all of the input! To be honest, it didn’t occur to me that a therapist could help but I will look into it. It does seem ridiculous to think I need to take Xanex for every conversation with my boss. I really only starting having problems when I started working after law school – at first, it was just public speaking when I had to give presentations for work but for some reason, in recent years it has been just normal conversations when my boss drops by my office to ask about work. Since having kids, I do have trouble sometimes answering questions on the spot (things like, what does this document say about x).

        • CountC

          I don’t know if this helps, but I would say I that 75% of the time, I cannot answer spot questions from my boss. My memory is crap – for a few reasons that aren’t important. It’s not a big deal – I say, I don’t know, but let me check and get back to you. Does/would your boss have a negative reaction to that type of response? Can you identify where the anxiety is rooted (e.g., a poor reaction by a person whose quesiton you couldnt answer)?

          I do agree that therpay can help. That (plus meds) is how I learned how to manage it. I only need meds from time to time now and it usually is because there are other stressors happening and it’s a big pile on of THINGS.

        • Anonymous

          Everyone has those issues. You say “let me check and get back to you.” :)

        • HW

          Same, I really struggle with being put on the spot like that. I just say “let me confirm and get back to you” which tends to work.

        • alexis

          I work in a technical field and I’m not that detail oriented, so I have a personal policy of looking up or double checking things before answering unless its something I definitely definitely definitely know. I have copious notes – I don’t assume that I will remember anything. I don’t actually have memory issues, but for work things I sorta behave like I do. And it’s great, because then I never stress about not remembering or not knowing something.

          And therapy isn’t only for like big traumatic issues or something. It’s for any situation where your mind is getting in your way.

          I asked about school because I was wondering if it was a “getting called to the principal’s office thing” – it doesn’t sound like that then. In any case, I think therapy would be helpful.

        • Aunt Jamesina

          As a boss, I’m perfectly fine hearing “I’m not sure, let me get back to you about that” if it means that I’ll receive more accurate information. Outside of rare very urgent issues, I would never think twice about an employee needing time to answer my questions. I much prefer an employee who is focused on accuracy rather than speed! And if it is urgent, unless the question is “where’s the fire extinguisher?”, I can still wait a few minutes.

          I also think therapy would help. I had a boss that induced anxiety in me; part of it was her being legitimately scary. Part of it was me feeling (unjustifiably) incompetent because of her scary management style. It improved after therapy, and is 100% gone now that I’m no longer in that role.

        • Anon

          My executive coach pointed out that sometimes when a partner sees you, they are reminded about X, Y and Z that you’re working on, which they weren’t thinking about before, so they ask you questions. Yes, stressful, but they don’t necessarily expect a full answer off the cuff. The questions are off the cuff for them. “How’s that brief coming along?” “Fine, I expect to have a draft by the deadline we already discussed.” “What’s the status of Q?” “Let me check and get back to you.” I used to hate it and tried to avoid running into one partner in particular. But my coach’s comment helped me make sense of it. He’s not purposely trying to grill me, he’s just been reminded of things I’m working on because he sees me.

      • Anon

        It really depends on your doctor. If she only has a serious conversation once or twice per month with her boss, her doctor may very well say that a low dose of xanax is appropriate treatment for those interactions.

        • alexis

          Well hopefully she can at least explore all the options to see if Xanax is really the only possibility. I’m all for taking medicine as needed but I’m not sure if that really is the only solution here.

    • Anon

      It’s pretty standard in my company to discuss preferred communication styles (e.g., scheduled 1-on-1 meetings with defined agendas vs. casual drive bys and spontaneous calls/IMs). Is this something that could be discussed in your work culture? If not, you might want to work on getting comfortable in the moment saying “you know I want to make sure I get you the right answer so give me some time to double check that. I’ll shoot you a note later this morning!”. This is of course in addition to medical support and solutions as well!

      • Anon

        It all depends on the doc. Some are very liberal with their prescriptions. One suggested I take it 3 times/day for several months and I thought that was crazy pants and found a different doc.

    • Anonymous

      I would talk to a therapist about this. At one point in my career, I had what I now think were panic attacks when I had to speak in public. It was awful. It would happen whether I was speaking on a webcast to an empty room or a live group. I almost couldn’t speak physically (like I couldn’t breathe). I got diagnosed with cancer, was off work for a while and when I came back to work (months later), it was gone. I have no idea why. My best friend thinks the stress of going through cancer somehow put the fear of speaking in perspective. All of the to say, I think it’s worth talking through to see if you can work through the reasons.

  9. Anne

    Hey – With the (thankfully) cooler weather coming in I realize I don’t have a good array of WFH pants. In the Spring I mostly wore leggings but I also barely left the house. Now I want pants that are as comfortable but feel right for running errands, daycare pick up etc. Definitely more comfortable than jeans though! What are your best WFH pants? Links please? Must be flattering on a lumpy lady.

    • Cb

      They don’t quite work for me but the Uniqlo EZ trousers are always highly recommended and are very comfortable. But I’ve fully joined team leggings.

    • Anon

      I bought these in a couple colors and love them — could not be more comfortable and oddly flattering despite being pretty voluminous. I find the wider leg reads less casual than leggings; I’d even wear them to my business casual office with a tucked in blouse and dressier flats. But they also look great with sneakers/sandals and a tee shirt.

      https://www.loft.com/pull-on-wide-leg-pants/524429

      • Anonymous

        What kind of build are you? I would love to rock those, but last time I brought home wide leg pants, my husband (when asked) told me I looked like a homeless genie.

        I’m 5’9 and a size 10/12 with my weight in thighs/butt.

        • Anon

          I’m on the petite side, so YMMV, but I feel like they could also be flattering on other body types? I can get overwhelmed by more voluminous clothes and I was surprised at how much I liked the pants. Regardless of size, I think they look much better with a more fitted top and relatively sleek shoes/accessories.

      • Katie

        I think Athleta is good for this – they have things that aren’t leggings but aren’t traditional work pants either. I have a few styles from them that I’ve dressed up for the office and that I’m living in these days. The style I have isn’t available, but I think their Brooklyn Ankle Pant looks pretty versatile, as does the Skyline Pant.

    • anon

      Athleta joggers have been my go-to. They look pulled together and like real pants, but are much more comfortable than jeans.

      I don’t really wear leggings, except when working out. I may be the only woman alive who finds them uncomfortable.

      • Anonymous

        how do you style them? Or, asked better, what kinds of tops to put on to make it look put together?

        • Anon

          Not the joggers OP but maybe you could start with what types of tops you have and look for pants that go with them?

          I recommended the Marine Layer Alison pant recently. They’re soft and comfy but look fairly put together for day to day activities. I just googled them to make sure I got the name right and it looks like there are quite a few similar offerings from other brands as well.

    • Pompom

      I was on a similar search last week, and found the Eddie Bauer incline high rise slim ankle pant to be perfect. I did not want a dressy sweatpant look–no draw string, no cuffed ankles–so these were the right ones. They are light and stretchy but substantial enough to cover lumps and bumps, and I could honestly see myself wearing these for work/play travel when that’s allowed again.

      Caveat about size inclusivity, if it matters to you/others: I’m a cusp sized person, so a lot of the usual recommendations, like the Athleta city pants and brooklyn pants, did not work. Size inclusive in letter only, not in size chart. I so so wanted them to, because that’s the exact pant I wanted!

    • Sloan Sabbith

      Zella long leggings or Betabrand pants. I can pretty much guarantee I’ll live in those two types of pants this fall/winter.

    • Anon

      My question would be why are your jeans so uncomfortable? Not every pair of jeans needs to be the skin-tight kind and they are universally worn for their comfort and appropriateness in most situations.

  10. Anonymous

    I was really dismayed by the posts yesterday afternoon about people rooting for social distancing to continue indefinitely even after a covid vaccine.

    I really thought this was ultimately temporary, even if it dragged on for a year or so. I just feel like this is such a pathetic, truncated version of my former life. Sure, you get to wear sweatpants to work and don’t have a commute but that was fun for a week, maybe. I love my family but I swear I appreciated them more and was genuinely a more interesting and happier person when I used to actually see other people. Zoom versions of socializing are at best a stand-in for in person get togethers. I’m definitely not willing to give up real life forever. I mean, yes, meeting with my local charity group means finding childcare and parking but it’s definitely worth it to have some laughs and do some good in person with real people. I’m upset that others are advocating for zoom-only everything and arguing it’s better because it’s easier. It’s easier but it’s also boring and tedious and doesn’t actually bring people together.

    It seems like we’ve come so far from “flattening the curve” to “eliminate covid entirely” to “you’re selflish to ever wanted to go back to normal.” We’re all going to live really long lives and never get a cold, but we’ll never meet new people or go on real life dates, or travel, and our kids will have screen time instead of school. I feel like I never signed on to this trade off while we were “flattening the curve.” It reminds me of the old adage about boats being safe in a harbor, but that’s not the point of a boat.

    • Anonymous

      I think you missed the point that that thread was specifically for high-risk individuals to talk about their own lifestyles.

    • Anon

      That was a thread for high risk people. Try some sensitivity and find a way to cope.

      • Anon

        +1

        Look up the word empathy and try to do what the definition says. Based on your post and replies, you’re severely lacking.

    • Cb

      I think the stay at home forever is an extreme view but I do hope we use this opportunity to pause and rethink our normal routines. Does it make sense to do long commutes to a city centre to sit in an office and talk on the phone? Could our environment, health, and families benefit from rethinking the traditional work model? Would this make work more accessible to those with disabilities or caring responsibilities, increasing workforce participation? Are big academic or professional conferences the best way to deliver information and network, especially in the age of a climate emergency. I’ve got a younger kid but many of my friends with big kids have said that they are rethinking the number of activities their kids do, as they are really enjoying family time.

      • Anon

        It’s unkind to call it an “extreme view” and shows that you didn’t actually read or empathize with the very thoughtful discussion among high-risk individuals yesterday.

    • Anonymous

      Was it the thread about high risk people? I was the OP if it was. For us, we can’t get Covid at all. So this continues indefinitely until there’s a treatment that works. That’s not the case for a lot of people.

    • Anonymous

      I think you missed the point of that thread. It was about what permanent changes people will choose to make to their own behavior, not about keeping things locked down forever. I fail to see how it harms you if people with immune deficiencies continue wear masks in public or keep using curbside pickup so they get sick less often and enjoy a higher quality of life.

    • Anon

      Yeah sorry you don’t like wearing sweatpants to work but I’m high-risk and not putting myself at risk of death for you to dress up and feel “normal.” You’re also missing the opportunities inherent in this crisis. How can we restructure society in a better way? How can less commuting contribute to the climate change battle? Will more WFH finally give disabled people a real shot at full participation in the work force?

      I’m facing more health risks than you, but I also see more opportunity. Try changing your mindset – and maybe apologizing.

    • Cat

      If people wearing masks when sick, and WFH from sick becoming widely accepted – even for ‘just a cold’ – is a lingering effect of all of this, I will be delighted.

      • Anon

        Yes. I totally agree that if an outcome of this is we ALL get sick less by making some small no brainer changes, I’m all for it. Like I have some work acquaintances who used to greet me with a kiss on the cheek (!) which I always HATED but didn’t know how to end it, and I hope this ends that permanently. Honestly, even shaking hands needs to be given the side eye longer term, but that might be harder to break.

        • anon

          This. No more hugging and cheek kissing in the professional environment. I had already put a stop to it before Covid because its gross and fake and patronizing, but no more please. And yes, the handshake is on hold for now.

        • pugsnbourbon

          Gaaah with the kissing. Just no. I was greeting an Australian-by-way-of-Europe acquaintance and didn’t realize he was going for a cheek kiss. I turned my head too far and he kissed me full on the ear. I still want to crawl in a hole for that one.

      • Anon

        Also just normalizing WFH in general is a huge plus I think. How many people were told they “couldn’t” work from home by micromanging bosses prior to the pandemic? I think the attitude that your butt needs to be in a seat for 8 hours a day 5 days a week is horribly old fashioned and needs to die out.

        • Op

          I just feel like this is really job specific. Being in the office allowed me to collaborate and do better work in less time. I could go run out for an errand or leave early and no one cared. Id have a long day in court and go home afterwards. I’d ask trusted colleagues for input and write something and the support staff could copy and mail it.

          Being home, im having to account for for every working moment of the day (non-billable time sheets for accountability) and have to worry about the computer being idle for more than six minutes. Plus, I spend the bulk of my time formatting PDFs and filing things electronically, rather than working on the substance of what I like to do. I just, don’t see how this is preferable, it’s certainly not more flexible. I get that everyone hates “butt in seat” but it was definitely a better lifestyle.

          • Anon

            These are you problems and you’re still displaying no empathy for people with high-risk conditions.

          • Anon

            Speak for yourself OP, I have loved WFH and am dreading a return to the old ways. I’d gladly take some extra control measures for accountability if it meant I could WFH indefinitely.

        • anon

          I agree 5 days a week with no flexibility is unnecessary and patronizing. However I see so many people claim that WFH is exactly the same and it’s not. I hope we move to a model with more flexibility for WFH but there are many professions where there is a lot of utility in being in the office regularly (although that does not mean 8-5, 5 days a week). I’m loving work from home for the most part but I can already see the negative impact it has on development (both my own development is definitely suffering and I’m seeing a lag in development of juniors)

      • anon

        Yes this. Went back to the gym this week and so glad I did….if everyone continues to wipe the equipment down, use hand sanitizer and wear masks, I will be very happy with a cleaner gym and more space to myself.

          • Anon

            I’ve been back at the gym 2x a week since June and no one at my gym has gotten Covid.
            How’s your fitness level, Anonymous at 1:07 PM? What are you doing to maintain cardiovascular and respiratory fitness, which is important if you want to survive the virus?

          • Anonymous

            @ anon at 2:36 … how will your fitness level be after you catch Covid? Also consider that you may have an exercise disorder if you truly believe people can’t stay fit without visiting Gold’s Gym or the like.

    • Anonymous

      I think you need to take deep breaths and work on reading comprehension. That thread was about immune compromised people realizing how often they were getting sick In The Before Times and considering how to make changes going forward. It wasn’t about “la di dah Zoom is great pajamas forever”

    • Anonanonanon2

      Oh I’m sad I missed this! I’m high risk and would have welcomed the conversation.

      I don’t enjoy lockdown, either. However, I wish we could just all agree to do it right for 3 weeks or so so we could ease it a bit more afterward. I wish everyone would wear masks so we can have nice things. I wish people got paid a living wage and could afford to stay home when they’re sick instead of go to a restaurant to serve food or work at the grocery store or even be a home health aide… unfortunately, this is America.

      For me, I hope that some day it will be like the flu. There will be a vaccine, there will be an antiviral, and it will be seasonal. It will still be a very very serious risk and I will take extra precautions like trying to avoid public transit and travel etc. like I do during flu season, but I can also take a few more risks than I do now (eating in a restaurant, etc.) I hope masks stay around or become a bit more normal for things like public transit in the future, at least in the fall/winter. If I do get it, I hope I don’t have to worry about being entirely alone and having no visitors in the hospital. That’s the scariest thing to me right now.

    • anon

      I get what you’re saying, but I actually DO hope this forces all of us to rethink our lifestyles. I do not love everything about WFH — no, I do not — but it has been much better for my family to have two parents around all the time and not rushing around so much. In Before Times, I felt like our lifestyle was kinda broken but I felt powerless to fix it within the constraints of our jobs.

    • Anon

      So I was one of those posters yesterday. You missed the whole point: pre-Covid, I was super high risk and almost died before my immunodeficiency was diagnosed a few years ago. Avoiding crowds means I’m living my best life and not a shell of myself energy-wise. You do you and enjoy your health post-pandemic. I and other high risk commenters yesterday were just sharing what we realized about our lives and health risks. We aren’t a representative sample of the population.

    • Anonymous

      I am vehemently against defunding the police. When I see what is happening in Portland, NYC, and Minneapolis, my thought isn’t that we need less police but that we need more.

    • Anon

      Not everything is about you.

      I’m one of those people who answered and the activities you’re talking about could literally kill me.

      • Anon

        She doesn’t care. I’m one of those people too and she neither gets it nor wants to learn more about the struggles others are facing.

      • Anonymous

        Same here. The number of selfish people in my work and personal lines has really disappointed me.

    • Anon

      I know a lot of people IRL who were basically hermits pre-Covid and the pandemic is giving them an excuse to live what they consider to be their best life. I think we see the same thing here. People who socialized very little and did not participate in community service and didn’t enjoy friendly relationships and work outings with their coworkers pre-Covid probably genuinely don’t care if those things ever become possible again, and I can’t blame them, in a way. My “normal” life is pretty far outside their frame of reference, and vice-versa. That being said, there’s a lot of talk about “empathy” but there seems to be none from the hermit crowd that for some of us, this is a 180-degree change in our lives and we don’t like it.

      I do agree that the discussion yesterday seemed to focus (although it didn’t necessarily start out that way) around high-risk people and how they are going to continue quarantining as long as they can. Which I genuinely feel is a great choice, FOR THEM. Like I am all for it if people who can end up in the hospital if they get a cold can stay home forever and not put their health at risk. I am not in a situation like that and additionally am not going to live my life tiptoeing around people who do have those issues. I have other health issues (chronic migraine, IBS) that I have had to make many, many, many lifestyle adjustments to manage. But I don’t expect everyone else to change their life to accommodate me. That’s the difference I see in some of the posts here: there is an expectation that because someone is high risk, or immunocompromised, that the world needs to change to accommodate their needs. Number one, super-selfish; number two, not gonna happen. If you are high risk, the best thing you can do to protect yourself is for YOU to stay home (and I fully support that workplaces should continue to allow WFH for those people, stores should continue to have “vulnerable population” shopping hours, etc.). Since it’s been revealed that 94% of those who died from Covid had pre-existing conditions I think we need to move into a phase where we let the folks who don’t have those conditions start living a normal life again. Especially kids.

      • Anon

        Reading comprehension fail (yet again). Absolutely no one was asking for YOU to stay home forever. No one asked YOU to change anything about your own life. The post specifically asked high-risk people (ONLY) what their own personal plans were. It was not a discussion inviting non-high-risk people to insert their judgments about whether hermits want to hermit and whether your own lucky life is better than theirs.

        • Anon

          Having friends, having a spouse/significant other, having children, having a fulfilling existence where you leave your home to participate in enjoyable activities is not all about luck. I know that is a really convenient narrative – that people either have those things handed to them in life or they don’t and if someone doesn’t have satisfying relationships, it’s not their fault – but it’s untrue. Choices and work also contribute. People who don’t want to acknowledge that are mired in a victim mentality, and I feel sorry for them.

          • Anon

            You truly do not get it and have no interest in learning or bettering yourself. I feel very sorry for you and I doubt you have the “fulfilling existence” you seem to crave. I’ll focus on saving my own life and you can focus on getting one.

          • Anon

            “You truly do not get it and have no interest in learning or bettering yourself. I feel very sorry for you and I doubt you have the “fulfilling existence” you seem to crave. I’ll focus on saving my own life and you can focus on getting one.”
            I’m sorry you’re so angry and bitter. I love my life, even in Covid times, because I have focused on developing fulfilling friendships, and nurturing my relationship with my spouse, my children, and my other family members. Give it a try. It is truly transforming.

        • Sloan Sabbith

          But not having a condition that means you’re at higher risk of dying from COVID or a common cold is lucky. Those of us with that concern didn’t choose this, so maybe don’t be so snarky?

      • Anonymous

        The CDC claims that 94 percent of COVID-19 death certificates list other “contributing causes,” which can include pneumonia that resulted from COVID-19. I would not call COVID-19 pneumonia a pre-existing condition.

        • Anonymous

          Are you sure they don’t mean prior bouts of pneumonia? I have a medical condition that makes me susceptible to pneumonia.

      • Anon

        I’m a bit horrified by the pile-on in this thread, but not at all surprised. It’s been clear for months that is NOT the place to expect support for these feelings. It’s not even as though OP was derailing yesterday’s thread (in which several people clarified that they were not high-risk) to talk about how she hates WFH, quite the opposite. Everyone’s hijacking her thread to castigate her for her despair instead. Hopefully OP can get outside somewhere in her area and see people enjoying life again. That’s the only thing that helps me when I feel this way. Put down the internet, just go outside where there are people. I didn’t have much of a social life before March, but this has really been a wake-up call that I need to stop postponing enjoying life for “next year, after this project,” etc. I hope the people who need the flexibility of WFH for health reasons will have it in the future from more employers, but I also hope OP can go back to court soon, even if it may mean switching jobs. It would be worth it for me if I were faced with that choice. I have been so thankful through all this that my job couldn’t be converted to WFH long-term, since sitting at a desk all day makes me miserable and I chose this job to avoid that. You’re not alone, OP. Now people can yell at us too!

        • Op

          Aw. Thanks to you and the poster at 2:49. It’s not pc but I miss real life interactions and it’s good to know I’m not the only one.

        • anon

          Also horrified by the pile-on on this thread. Yes, many of the comments were specifically about immunocompromised people, but throughout I keep hearing the refrain that WFH is “just as good” as going into the office. It’s not. Mine and my husbands’ workplace are WFH probably until there is a vaccine (which is good! I don’t want to die from COVID!) but I absolutely reject that this is a remotely acceptable substitute for normal times. I see our colleagues retreating into themselves, there are so many fewer interactions happening, and we have lost the spontaneity, community, and exchange of ideas that were once a central feature of our workplaces (and the rest of our lives). So yeah, when I see people saying things like — “I love not having to get ready, I hope we can work from home forever!” — it makes me want to scream. The time I spend “getting ready” is such a small price to pay for the sense of community that has heretofore defined my life . And no, it’s not just about my individual desire to go back to work. Just like with infectious diseases, post-pandemic, people’s choices to participate in community affects everyone. If everyone decides they want to start working from home forever, that radically alters what I believe is a very important and meaningful feature of human life generally.

          That is all to say — I absolutely support WFH forever for people who are immunocompromised (and actually think the ADA requires that accommodation) but let’s not pretend it leads to better, more productive, happier work places. By and large, it doesn’t. We should be able to accommodate work from home for people who need it, but when a critical mass of a workforce starts working from home, it absolutely changes the dynamic of a workplace, and so, so much is lost. People are social animals and whether or not we recognize it, we need the full range of human interaction — including in-person interactions with their colleagues — to live full, productive, and happy lives. I feel WFH culture will only accelerate our already-rapid descent into loneliness and isolation as a culture.

          WFH is crucial for some people but also terrible for many people and workplaces generally. Both can be true.

          • Anon

            I don’t disagree that there can be downsides of WFH, but you’re only viewing things through one lens. I think a lot of things about the workplace are “terrible generally” and they are greatly improved through WFH. You should consider the benefits for all and not just the benefits for the immunocompromised if you want to come to the table with an open mind and ready for a fair discussion. Some of the benefits I’ve heard (off the top of my head) are that WFH-friendly workplaces are better for working moms, meetings are more streamlined and taking place less often (this is a good thing much of the time!), you can collaborate with experts across time zones and locations, and you can recruit better talent across the country or even the world. Also, if my coworkers feel lonely and isolated at work, that’s honestly something they need to address themselves. Work is for work, not for social time, and many of us who enjoy WFH have active personal social lives and interests and are not one workplace policy away from complete loneliness and isolation.

          • Anonymous

            I really don’t derive a sense of community from the office (perhaps partly because it’s not a particularly inclusive social environment, but still). I think you should probably speak for yourself on what “being a social animal” involves for different people. There’s also a lot of spontaneity, collaboration, and even socializing in my WFH environment (probably more now, since everyone was off in separate offices before, whereas now they are constantly checking in online on Zoom and chat). I’m not just fulfilled socially by work; that needs to be a different part of my life.

          • Anon

            I‘m so over people responding to “work from home is bad” with “get more friends.” What a cop out argument. I have plenty of friends. I also think WFH culture is a net negative.

          • Anonymous

            I think the answer is probably not “get more friends” but “work fewer hours.”

          • Me

            Thank you for this comment. I miss the short walk in and out of the office, my coffee guy, idle chit chat with the people I see in the kitchen, looking over a team member’s shoulder for 2 minutes rather than scheduling a 20 minute call, spontaneous brain storming, and the separation of my work life from my home life. I had no idea how much energy I got from those around me during work hours, even just seeing the bustle, and its gone. Video conferences are absolutely not replacements.

        • anon

          +100. Everyone here can chill and OP was not being insensitive to people with preexisting conditions. She is free to think that a full life (with lots of social interactions) is way better than one at home, and people who are severely immunocompromised are also justified in wanting to make permanent changes. And many of us who have COVID preexisting conditions (asthma, diabetes, hypertension, whatever) can remain cautious while COVID is out of control but fully intend to go back to “normal” as soon as it makes sense. But y’all are pouncing on OP–who was not being insensitive–unnecessarily, and it was the most classic Corporette thing I’ve ever seen.

          • Anon

            It’s very common for people who aren’t disabled to denigrate the quality of life of disabled people. It’s like, “fine, have your accommodation, as long as you admit that your existence is fundamentally inferior to mine, and I enjoy happiness the likes of which you’ll never know.” “A full life is way better” closes the door to the possibility of creating a full and worthwhile existence within the limitations imposed by illness and disability.

  11. Anonymous

    After a long hiatus from having my period (medical reasons), I’m getting a period about every two months again. I’m miserable much of those days. Flow is unpredictable, I’m usually sad, sleeping is tough, and managing cramps is an art I haven’t fully perfected. Any tips for a woman in her 30s to get through these weeks? I do have a flow tracking app which is a miracle but I would really like strategies other than consider taking time off from work 4 days every two months to be miserable. My doctor basically shrugged and said this is what periods are like.

    • Diana Barry

      YMMV, but my PCP told me to layer pain meds at the first sign of cramps. He said it was fine to take 3 Advil every 6 hours and then 2 Aleve every 12 hours (stagger). If I do that and don’t allow the cramps pain to set in, it is MUCH better.

      • Anonymous

        YES to the perpetual Advil drip at a dose that actually controls the pain.

        • Anon

          Another YES to this. There’s a reason they say to take a pill every x hours. You will have a harder time managing the pain if you let the pain pills wear off. Keep it steady for a few days, don’t go longer than x hours, and you will be surprised at how well over the counter pain meds work.

    • rw

      Start taking a low dose of aleve or other pain med a day or two before your actual period starts. I generally find myself taking 2 aleve day before l, 2-4 first day, and then I’m good. Yoga with adrienne has some good yoga videos on YouTube for dealing with cramps that I find helpful. Some people find eating certain foods helpful, like sweet potatoes, certain types of seeds. I don’t remember those specifics. drink lots of water, and I actually try to minimize caffeine a bit.

    • Cat

      I take 4 Advil every 4-5 hours for the first 2-3 days of my period. It’s the only way to stay ahead of the cramps; if they take root they are awful (vomiting etc).

    • Anon

      Yep to the other posters about pain management – I take 2 Aleve at the very first hint of a twinge of a cramp and keep taking them every ~8 hours or so.

      For flow, there’s nothing better than a menstrual cup. I like Saalt brand ones (they’re extra soft so you’re less aware of them). No worrying about bleeding through.

      Oh, and heating pads. Old school, but feels so good.

    • Greensleeves

      I found the Thermacare heat pads very helpful for cramps, and much easier to deal with than a heating pad, especially if you are not at home or move around a lot. They make some specifically for cramps, but those can be hard to find and the ones for shoulders work just as well IMO.

    • Panda Bear

      I might also consider seeing a new doctor. Of course I only have a tiny piece of context here – maybe he/she is generally great – but if “this is what periods are like” is the best they can offer you, I’d like to talk to someone with more compassion and better ideas.

      • No Face

        I highly recommend switching doctors when they don’t take your concerns seriously. I started doing that about two years ago and it’s a game changer!

    • anonshmanon

      Agree with using pain meds as needed and heat, plus it helps me to do crunches and ab stretches during that week.

    • NYNY

      A few drops of CBD oil on tampon has done wonders for my perimenopause mega-cramps. Use one meant for ingestion, not a topical-only formula.

    • Anon

      I have presumed endometriosis (need surgery for an official diagnosis) and have had horrible cramps since I was 12. Some things that help me:
      -Note the severity over the course of your period (day/time/activity) and plan downtime during the worst parts if possible
      -Start taking meds early and don’t stop until you know the bad phase of cramps is over. For me, that means 2 days before until the middle of day 3
      -Figure out what meds work best for you. I can’t take Aleve on an empty stomach and if I wait until I’ve eaten, the cramps will already be too bad for it to help much so I take Ibuprofen
      -Your doctor can prescribe extra strength painkillers if regular ones aren’t helping
      -A tens machine (like the ones for back pain) helps me manage medium-intensity cramps
      -Heating pads help me with mild to medium cramps
      -I tried using stick on toe warmers as a mobile heating pad alternative while working, but it wasn’t enough heat to help me
      -Having my partner massage my abdomen is helpful for medium to severe cramps. For whatever reason, massaging myself or using a device does not work.
      -If I don’t stay hydrated and on top of meals/snacks, my cramps get a lot worse. I don’t always notice that I’m hungry/thirsty if I’m in pain so I plan out food and water during my period
      -Exercise makes my cramps worse, but stretching/mild yoga sucks in the moment but provides some relief after
      -For emotional symptoms, I just expect to be sad and kind of lean into it

    • ChiAnon

      If you’re ok with not having a period again, ask your doctor about taking birth control continuously and skipping them altogether.

  12. Anon

    My cousin is having her first baby later this year and I just got an invite to a (virtual) baby shower with a link to the registry. The registry includes a Peloton “to get in shape after baby in a socially distanced way.” I’m all for socially distanced exercise, but does that seem…odd to any of you? Is this a thing now?

    • Vicky Austin

      Seems like a pretty big ask to put on a registry to me, but I am a sample size of one.

      • Ribena

        I agree – unless you’re inviting like 60 people to the shower and they all put in for 1/60th of the bike.

    • Clementine

      Uh, I’d take it in the context of ‘is this person generally kind of presumptuous’? TBH, I wouldn’t do it (not my style) but it would definitely be something I want. Maybe they have a rich but clueless relative?

      I once went in with the rest of the bridal party and bought a couple a couch.

    • Anonymous

      I think it’s a “thing,” if by “thing” you mean an extraordinarily tacky attempt to get someone to buy an expecting parent an extremely expensive and unnecessary piece of exercise equipment. The point of a shower is to give the family gifts to assist with the *baby,* not a means to subsidize someone’s expensive taste.

      I would give a side eye and a hard pass, and maybe send some diapers, same as I’m giving the people who invited me to their own “shower,” with no virtual shower link and just a mention of where they’re registered.

    • Anonanonanon2

      That’s so tacky that it’s hilarious. Are you sure it’s not a joke?

      • Anon

        No, pretty sure it’s not a joke. It’s a little out of character, actually – my cousin typically does not have expensive taste at all. I can only conclude that she is concerned about being able to work out after the baby when they will be on a tight budget (and can’t go to the gym anyway). She is a social worker and her husband will become a stay at home dad. It is weird though right…

    • Anonymous

      My kids are 2/4/6 but I had babies relatively early, so I have some friends that are having their first now. I think that with the pandemic, all bets are off. Just assume good intentions. Is the issue the Peloton or the registry for a virtual shower?

      Consider:
      1. Most people don’t plan their own shower. Your cousin was probably encouraged to put together a registry, *especially* because people can’t be together in person to celebrate. Aunties and Grandmas LIVE for things like showers. Yes, traditionally showers are for new baby gear.
      2. I would assume something like a Pelton was put on there as a wish list type item. She’s not going to buy it for herself, but if everyone wanted to chip in, she’d love it. If it’s a huge shower, and there were a group like my old sorority sisters or gym friends or something invited, maybe I’d organize a chip-in. After 3 babies, I have dozens of baby blankets. A new vacuum would have been great!
      3. It’s an invite, not a summons. You can send whatever you like, or send nothing but good wishes. She will be fine with anything!

      I think there is a lot more to get upset about these days, and I really feel for anyone with a major milestone event during these crazy times. I’ve had friends in their mid/late 30s who have done EVERYTHING for me: bridal showers, weddings, baby showers, the whole shebang. This was *THEIR YEAR* to get married, or have babies, and be doted on and it all just fell to pieces. I was ready to fly across the country 5x for my buddies: destination wedding, bridal shower, baby shower, you name it- my kids are old enough to be left with a sitter/DH and my butt was THERE this year. Until it wasn’t.

      • Anon

        All of this.

        For what it’s worth, my MIL refused to buy off-registry for our wedding. At the same time she had her heart set on some really expensive things that we added to appease her (she got some 10% discount because we registered for it I guess). Of all the wedding-related dramatics she brought, it was a path of least resistance to put it on there. Maybe there is some coordination among family or friends that you don’t know about, which caused her to register for it.

        That’s my best attempt to assume good intentions. It seems like a giant ask, and one I’d never make, but you never know why something like that shows up on there. Scroll on by if it’s not for you.

      • Anonymous

        As someone who attended everything for other friends, but whose wedding has fallen to pieces twice now, just wanted to say thank you.

    • Anonymous

      It seems tacky to me but often big ticket registry items are earmarked for certain family members. (“Grandma is getting the bugaboo/crystal stemware/Dyson- don’t even think about it.”) There’s a good chance someone close to her wanted to buy her this- either way you definitely don’t have to buy it! Also, I feel like the whole world has one of these crazy expensive bikes so I’m kinda numb to the price of it. (My husbands’ friend was explaining a financing deal they got on one. People are financing exercise equipment; what a world!) Also, good for her for trying to take care of her mental and physical health post-baby. That’s a positive! Still a little tacky, but good for her.

    • Anon

      Wow this is weird. A) peletons are so expensive and b) that’s a gift that is totally for the parents, not the baby.

      • Anon

        Maybe I’m just too live and let live here, but I actually feel like gifting the mom something that helps her take care of herself and build up happy work out endorphins while at home with her baby is MUCH more important for the baby overall than the 1,000th onesie they don’t need.

        (My point is I’m not saying one should gift pelotons on the reg at baby showers, but agree with many others that maybe she was hoping this could be a chip in situation and disagree that this does not help the baby).

        • Anon

          I’m all for moms continuing to have their lives/hobbies and agree that moms who work out are gonna be happy and healthy … this just doesn’t seem like the way to do it.

          I’d love a peleton but it’s out of budget so I don’t have one. However, if I saved everything I’ve spent on attending weddings and baby showers lately I could easily afford one. Starting to feel a little like Carrie Bradshaw right now

    • Anon

      did she also ask for the child version of the exercise bike so they could do mommy & me exercising?

    • Bette

      One other angle for team “Assume Positive Intent” – a lot of registries offer some sort of coupon or discount code that you can use to purchase anything left over after your shower so this may be her attempt to snag 15%-20% off a planned (but pricey) purchase. We had a lot of very generous friends and family purchase pretty much everything on our baby registry so now we might try adding some big ticket home items to the registry (only for us to purchase – no expectation of more gifts!) to see if we can put the completion code to good use.

    • Anon

      It seems like the equivalent of my friend’s husband putting a ps4 on their wedding registry. A weird ask that no one will buy, but whatever.

      • Anon

        I don’t know. At the age of 40, married, been through countless friends weddings and numerous friends divorces and what I know now about what does and does not actually get used from a wedding registry, I might actually buy a friend a PS4 if that’s what they legit wanted and I thought they would for real play with it. I’m assuming the wife wasn’t mad about it (maybe she wants to play too!) or it wouldn’t be on there.

        • asdf

          Totally weird. PS5 is coming out soon. Obv. should register for a pre-order of that.

          • Anony

            I’d let BF put a PS5 on the wedding registry. Gaming is his thing; he loves it and it brings him joy. Then I would contemplate what I could put on their for me.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        People put TVs and other electronics on registries all the time. I don’t find it weird.

        • anon

          I agree. I don’t know why it’s acceptable to say “please by me this China” (that I will never use) but not to say “please buy me this thing”
          (That we will actually use). The premise of registries is weird to me but once you accept that they are a thing, I think judging what goes on them is sorta silly and old fashioned. It’s a wish list, if you don’t want to buy something from it, don’t. Although I do hate honeymoon funds or housefunds or whatever funds, which are just asks for cash. I don’t need a wish list/registry to tell me you want cash, cash is always a great gift! I especially get annoyed at the ones where the registry takes a cut! Make a small registry, I’ll take the hint and write you a check and you’ll get every penny!

        • cbackson

          On baby registries? I’ve never seen that. I’ve really never seen anything that wasn’t baby gear.

    • Anonymous

      If this is an especially out-of-character ask for her and for your family, I suspect it’s there for a specific relative. Maybe a wealthy aunt or in-law? I mean, we put a nice jogging stroller on ours, earmarked for my parents to give, and gleefully used it every other day when our first was old enough. It was technically ‘for’ baby but…really for us. I do agree that something that’s so blatantly not for baby is a bit odd, but healthy, less-stressed parents are also 100% good for the kid.

    • Anon

      No, of course it’s not a thing. You can come here and complain about it without asking if one single instance of something weird is a “a thing.” You’re not a NYT style section columnist.

    • Anon

      I got an odd baby shower “notification”(not invitation) recently: an email about how it was sad there couldn’t be a party due to COVID so it would be family only (no virtual link) but here was the registry and the parents would be opening gifts during the family shower. Very odd. I put that on my husband’s to do list, knowing full well how likely it was to get acted on.

      • Anonymous

        I’m the “assume good intentions” poster from above– this one is weirder. Like, send a gift but we won’t even send you the zoom invite? Maybe it will be coming later? The entire point of a shower is to open gifts!

      • Pink

        I’ll do you one better: I got a first birthday party invite with “location TBD.” Actual party location was four states, two time zones and a mountain range away.

    • Anon

      Is she registered at a place that gives a post-event discount for items not purchased from the registry? Some places will do 10% or 20% off, which would be a sweet discount on a Peloton…

    • Anon

      Idk. I was considering putting a cordless Dyson vacuum on mine. I mean it’s obviously for me, but it’s something I think will make taking care of a baby/toddler much easier.

      Agree with everything that has been said– but I also want to comment that most people I know that have been able to have several baby showers (in the Before Times) have ended up with way too much stuff like cute clothes/toys that they won’t use and not things they actually need. My SIL got to the point where she told anyone that wanted to buy her more stuff to make contributions to her son’s college fund instead. (No one did, and she has a room full of unused baby stuff that I guess I will now inherit since I doubt I will be having any in-person showers.)

    • Anon

      I’m all for things like jogging strollers that are for the mom and the baby, or for someone throwing in a gift card for a prenatal massage, but this is just too much. You can assume that she may be doing it because someone wanted to buy it for her or she wants the registry discount, but it’s still really weird.

  13. Social things for middle schoolers

    Oldest kiddo just started middle school at a combined middle/high school (so 6th graders are new and many 9th graders are new, in addition to transfers and random new kids). Per the parent FB group, they are all miserable and lonely, particularly any who are only kids. They are thinking through options: zoom lunches that are purely social; zoom “happy hours” for trivia / ice breakers perhaps grouped by grade or zip code; something in-person (distanced, outside, like at a park or nature walk).

    Any thoughts? There is a bit of concern that kids are over-zoomed (yet most can’t drive and often parents work and can’t take them anywhere); a concern that zoom needs to be monitored lest things get inappropriate; some kids aren’t comfortable doing anything in-person.

    [Some outdoor overnight camps are letting kids come back for a week where they zoom school on headsets but otherwise stay with their cabin and get to do things like hiking and go out on a lake; it seems crazy, but I might let my kids do this even though I WFH just so they don’t go nuts; it’s like doggie daycare for socializing and exercise, but for people.]

    • Anne

      My friend is doing a lot of outdoor after school activities, which seems great. Options include tennis, parkour, 4H etc. Maybe do that?

    • Anonymous

      Are they fully remote? Are you in a hotspot?

      If not, After school activities seem like the best way to get socializing. Here in MA, activities are all running, just modified. Sports, including dance and gymnastics, art,
      Music, etc.

      Does your kid have any friends yet? Could they do remote school together? I would be fine having 2-3 kids on my patio for the day where I could keep a side eye on them from my office.

      • Anonymous

        Not in a hotpot. 100% remote.

        There is a mom nearby with a kid in our kid’s grade. No overlap with classes, but perhaps better than nothing. We haven’t met yet, just e-mailed. Kids seem wildly different, but sometimes just knowing people is a good thing. You don’t have to be BFFs, just acquaintances.

      • SC

        Omg, I cannot even fathom being able to afford that, but it looks awesome. I’m working in person and sending my kid to in-person school, so I imagine it’s actually lower risk than my day to day life.

      • Anon

        I sent my husband this link and his response was “let’s sell the house and see how long we can stay there on the proceeds.” Sigh. This sounds so amazing.

    • NYCer

      Personally, I would vote for something outdoors and in person. But YMMV, depending on virus levels in your city, personal risk tolerance, etc.

      I think young teens would have a hard time connecting with other kids they don’t know on Zoom.

    • Anon

      Seems like your kid should be old enough to tell you if this is too much. Have you asked him/her?

    • Anon

      My high school next door neighbor recently had friends over. They all wore masks and sat on lawn chairs in the back yard. After it got dark, they watched a movie on a projector screen, still outside. No shared food or drinks. No parents outside. I think it’s a safe, smart way to get real human contact.

  14. Anonymous

    Suggestions for a fall outdoor wreath? I love balsam hill but would prefer to spend a bit less if possible. Thanks!

      • anon

        I CANNOT buy more fall decor — seriously, it’s my version of Christmas — but I really like that!

      • Aunt Jamesina

        NOOOOOO!!!!! It’s not fall yet! I love fall décor but it’s still hot even here in Chicago! I will die on this hill! Who’s with me?

        • Anon

          Summer ends September 22. It is not fall because the name of the month is September! This is not a difficult fact to remember.

          Aunt J, I will die on this hill with you. It drives me nuts.

          • Anon

            But no one is going to keep fall decorations up until Dec 21st when fall officially ends because, holidays, so then going by the official rules fall gets totally shortchcanged. #teamfall

          • Aunt Jamesina

            I came back just to say that keeping them up from September 22nd to Thanksgiving gives you two good months of fall decorations during weather that’s seasonally appropriate in colder climates of the Northern hemisphere! I meant it when I said I would die on this hill :-)

        • Sloan Sabbith

          No matter how early they release it, it’s fall decorating season (and reading season, and cozy season) once there are pumpkin spice lattes at Starbucks. And I don’t even like them. And it’s still 90* here so I can’t be cozy without roasting. But damnit, I’m going to read fall-like books and buy nice blankets and add slippers to my Nordstrom wishlist.

  15. Entry level jobs these days?

    Stepkid is a senior in college (SEC school). An earlier goal to go to med school has fizzled and kiddo’s plan B is just to start working and figure it out. That has been a bit of a struggle as school shut down last spring and it was hard to line up even paying summer work. I don’t know who advises kids about how to find entry level jobs these days and in Corona Times or any way to do this in a way that will lead to employment. On-campus recruiting doesn’t seem to be happening. Alumni events in our city aren’t happening. I fear he will go to law school (NO NO NO) out of not having a clear path to anything else (would settle for a murky path at this point) and b/c some law school somewhere will take you if you can fog a mirror. He’s debt-free up until now and I feel that a year after college even delivering packages for Amazon while he figures it out as the world reopens would be better than doing in debt for a degree that will put him probably in a worse position long-term (vs the other side of his family that thinks law is “prestigious”).

    • Anonymous

      You should not be involved in this decision. Delivering amazon packages as a college grad versus law school is something you suggest is an obvious call but I think you’re wrong. Graduating into unemployment is hard. His school has career services to help. No one is hiring entry level grads a year out at the moment. Zip your lip unless directly asked for help and even then your help is “I understand it’s so hard right now. I don’t have the answers except I know it will take time. Talk to career services.”

      • Anonie

        I agree that delivering packages doesn’t seem like some amazing choice unless, of course, there are no other options. And not that prestige is what matters most or second-most or even 20th-most in life, but I think that practicing law is pretty universally considered more prestigious than delivering packages. I was confused by that comment about his other side of the family. I don’t mean to be rude or snarky, but that statement came across as rather privilege-y.

        Of course, I can tell that you love your stepson very much and hold his best interests close at heart. I know that college students tend to disparage campus career services, but I have personally had success stories. Could you encourage him to make a few Zoom/phone appointments via his college campus? Could you and your husband introduce him to some of your friends in various fields and help him set up virtual informational interviews to learn more about their jobs? Also, I’d encourage him to look at virtual volunteer opportunities…these will look good on his resume and may prompt a deeper understanding of what he enjoys.

    • Anon for this

      I work for Amazon. 100% have him consider applying for work in the fulfillment centers. The horror stories (justified!) are generally about contractors. If he has a college degree and a good work ethic, he can likely start as an area manager or one level above and will have a path to corporate.

      • Anon for this

        Sorry, I meant one level below. The key is getting full-time work, which locks you in to the $15/hr minimum and the standard benefits package.

      • Anonymous

        OP here. Thanks! He has had a package delivery job with you all before and it actually went well (and in a rural / depressed area, I was very happy that he got it). I also agree that if you have a degree and hustle, you do well even going in with an entry-level job and rise up quickly (like a friend was a shift manager at McDonald’s in high school before she country drive). It’s important now to start working anywhere vs just waiting for a dream job to come to you.

    • Anon100

      Re med school – does the kid actually have the aptitude/desire to practice medicine? He could work as an assistant in a clinic for a year (my sister and plenty of my doctor friends did that as a gap year after college several years ago), although the exposure risk would probably be somewhat high.

      Just throwing a suggestion out here, but what about looking for temp agencies for office-style work in his field of study? I agree with you that delivering packages is better security that going to law school right now, but then again, if his long term goal is to work an office-style (aka no physical duties) job, it might be good to get some office-related experience.

      • Anonymous

        OP: I honestly don’t know, but suspect some of it is saying what adults want to hear re career aspirations and being told “you can do anything”

        I think sometimes you just have to graduate the fling yourself out at the world and see what is there and then figure out the next step.

        • Aunt Jamesina

          What about becoming a physician assistant? Good work opportunities and autonomy, not as much time or money as med school. I have two friends who are PAs and they love their work. The MD in my family seems unsatisfied with QOL and debt.

    • Anon

      i work at a university career center and while all university career centers definitely aren’t created equal, they should have some resources available. on-campus recruiting is happening here (just virtually), we have been working and meeting with students all spring and summer and now fall via zoom. i would agree going to law school to buy time or cause you don’t know what else to do is a terrible idea. he needs to get plugged in to his school career center, but again not necessarily your place.

    • Anonymous

      For almost all fields, it is way too early to worry about this. If he wants to do consulting or accounting (I assume not since he doesn’t know what he wants to do) or grad school, yes, figure it out now. But this is just not a crisis at all in SEPTEMBER.
      You don’t need to know who advises on these things. It is probably their adviser or someone from career services. Or an alum (via career services). But this is on student to figure out.
      Also, reconsider whether this is your role as a step parent. You may just need to be a sounding board if asked, but it doesn’t sound like you were asked by the student (yet).

      • Anonymous

        OP — I’m stepkid’s dad’s sounding board (and also lead singer on “don’t go to law school; debt will ruin your future like nothing else” when asked), so that is my lane and I’m staying in it. BUT I actually did use my small college’s career services section (and had lots of upperclass friends, so by the time I was a senior, I knew people who were working, in grad school, in law school, and re-applying to med school b/c even a ton of people have to take some time to get in). Oddly, at first I used career services to apply for pie-in-the-sky interships that I’d never in a million years get (the UN? oh, honey . . .). But I did learn how to put a resume together and, importantly, how to hustle and use your connections and sell yourself. I don’t think you can make any kid do that, but darkening the door of career services is a good place to start, especially when in-person networking is much harder.

      • I recommend consulting

        I had no idea what I wanted to be when I grew up, and ended up in consulting with one of the Big Ones after undergrad. (How – went to a presentation by Bain put on my by college career center with a friend. I had never heard of the management consulting industry before.) Managed to land a job with a different firm. It was perfect – exposure to many industries and clients and roles. Did my three years, then grad school, then my current profession for 20+ years and going. I had great colleagues, some great clients, and mostly learned what I didn’t want to be and do, but it was really a great experience and perfect timing.

    • Anon

      I graduated 5 years ago and I literally don’t know anyone who had a job lined up a year before graduation. You need to relax. He needs to think about what his major is and how he can angle that for a career he’s actually interested in. Then he needs to focus on doing well in this final year. Closer to graduation, he can start applying to jobs. It’s really not overly complicated.

      • Anonymous

        OP here: I hear you! I think the bigger problem is that my husband is horribly, horribly, horribly worried that stepkid will wind up in a bad law school by default and deeply in debt and is not cut out to be a lawyer the way it described here. I hope that stepkid will get that it’s OK to graduate in May and then find a job. Even a McJob. Even a job and a PT job on top of that. Maybe work on a resume in the meantime and what realistic options are (what do apartments cost? might you need to live at home for a while to save up? might you stay in College City or go where we are?)

        • Anon

          Can you have that conversation with him? Rather than one where, even unintentionally, you might be pressuring him to have something lined up right this minute or else?

          • Anonymous

            I will try. It is not great to be a passenger on the bus that you can see is on the wrong path. And you can self-correct (but not if you go to law school, b/c even one year of law school debt seems to be too much debt!). May is a long time away. By then, people may be hiring! Or Amazon will still be sending packages at least! At any rate, all is not lost now. Husband is all worked up, which is hard to be around 24/7. I get that. And also that it is so typical for undergrads to graduate and then figure it out (vs have a specific plan, like is typical for education majors or ones geared to lining up a Big4 internship in the summer of college that leads to a job).

        • SC

          I am a decently happy lawyer. I graduated from college and worked a regular job for about 2 years before starting law school. It was a great thing to do. I grew up some. I went out partying a lot. I figured out that my relationship with my college bf was the real deal (we’re now married.) I fell in love with the city I was living in. I developed a network of great people. I learned to cook and clean and generally be an adult.

          When I went to law school, I was more focused. I had a scholarship, and I’m not sure that would have happened straight from college. I happened to start law school in 2008, so the financial crash impacted everyone’s job opportunities. The network I’d developed enabled me to get a job post law school in the city I’d lived in (and loved) before law school, and I’m still here (but at a different firm) almost 10 years later.

          Whether he goes to law school isn’t the issue. But you’re right that it shouldn’t be the default. And working before grad school can be a great experience.

          • Anonymous

            I went to law school straight through because that is what my friends had done. I had wanted to be a lawyer since I was . . . 11? And had really prepared for it as best I could — did Law Explorer Scouts in high school. Helped with title searches (someone used to have to dig through dusty deed records in damp basements before everything was online). Watched a lot of court (my parents didn’t have cable, so I could walk over to the courthouse and just observe — a lot of retirees just did that too). Seeing a lot of average lawyers made it less intimidating — I had a chance! But it wasn’t a default and it amazed me that people did take on that much debt just because they hadn’t felt like they had a calling to do something. I could have been happy getting a job as a court clerk or at the sheriff’s office or helping in the deeds office or probating wills, so I guess those were fall-backs, but off I went. I’d hate not to be at peace with law or the court life b/c if it isn’t for you, you can be miserable and in debt, which has to be the pits.

          • Quail

            +1. If you see that law school is becoming the default, tell him he will have much better options when applying after working for a year or two.

        • Anon

          My son is in law school. I did not encourage it. I was surprised at the amount of merit aid offered by decent schools. He was offered full tuition and fees by a number of decent (but not top tier schools) and will be able to graduate with zero debt. He has a plan, and it is not big law.

    • Walnut

      Assuming the kid is coming out with a generic degree, the time to start job searching is probably around spring break. In the meantime, they should reach out to career services to start working on their resume, mock interviews and checking internship boards. I know plenty of companies still hiring for entry level positions, so it might not be as dire as it seems.

    • Anon

      Fifteen years ago, the biggest problems with going to law school were that lower-ranked law schools often had bad outcomes, and you might find you hate being a lawyer but would have to do it to pay off the debt. These days, anyone who goes to law school “just because” has their head lodged so far up their rear end.

      Have him get a job at Amazon. One of my brother’s 24 year old friends has been there for two years and is approaching six figures. Put differently, he’s approaching or exceeding the average salary of a law school graduate* without taking three years out of the workforce and $200,000 of student loans.

      *Median for private-sector law firms: $68k.

    • Anonymous

      Plenty of us lawyers went to regional schools, graduated with minimal debt and work manageable jobs. It’s not glamorous, we’re not rich, but it’s really not an awful life. I’d be cautious about debt and realistic about your salary and job goals, but it’s far from the worst thing that could happen to someone career-wise. I think you’re being a bit extreme here.

    • FormerlyPhilly

      Between the two locations is Donna Adamoli MD part of summit medical group internal medicine … located in Livingston NJ. Smart, no nonsense, saved my life.

  17. Anon

    ways to volunteer for the Biden campaign remotely? my semi retired father is bored at home and despises our current president and is looking for something to do from home.

    • Anon

      Would he be interested in volunteering for a more local race? I think the more local the race, the more meaningful the volunteer opportunities will be.

    • Anon

      I posted about this recently, but you can write letters to voters (specifically, likely Democratic voters in swing states who don’t always vote) through Vote Forward (they have templates online). In my city, Swing Left is organizing virtual letter writing parties. They’re fun and cathartic, and it feels good to take action with like-minded people. We have a lot of retirees. This would be perfect for him!

    • anon dc

      Crooked media, the pod save america guys, are doing “Adopt a state,” he could look into that.

    • Brunette Elle Woods

      Definitely make phone calls. I went to a training and plan to start this week.

  18. anon

    In my area of the country, late fall and winter is looking BLEAK on the covid front. I typically host Thanksgiving for my family, and I can’t see how we’ll be able to do that safely. What’s the alternative? My parents are not tech savvy at all and barely respond to email. Doing something virtually is a nonstarter if we want them involved (and we do). I have three siblings and all of us have 2-3 kids, so we’re a big group.

    One thought I had was to have Thanksgiving in October and hope we could do it outdoors? I can’t see how we’d keep food warm once it’s on plates, but I dunno — better than nothing? I’m feeling very bummed about this. I truly love hosting Thanksgiving and look forward to it every fall.

    • Curious

      You could rent a smoker and smoke your turkey — lends itself to being outdoors.

    • Anonymous

      Is it feasible to ask everyone to quarantine for two weeks prior to thanksgiving? If your kids are remote and you order the food or do curbside delivery? Im sure everyone here will criticize but I’m not sure why that wouldn’t be safe if your parents drive. I agree, I don’t think outdoors will work.

      • anon

        Not really. All of us have kids in school, and BIL/sister both have jobs that absolutely cannot be done from home.

    • Anon

      You don’t do Thanksgiving this year. Call your parents on the day, have a nice long talk, and send them a gift from somewhere. It’s disappointing, but it’s the right thing to do and if we all do the right thing, maybe we can have Thanksgiving next year.

    • Anonyz

      What if you all synchronized your meals and had everyone on a conference call/speakerphone? I’ve called into meetings from a landline while others used laptops with cameras, so people with mixed tech skills can all share a Skype meeting.

      • Anon

        We had a Zoom passover. It was actually really nice because we were able to include a lot of family members that we normally are not able to see each year. I actually hope we do this again next year.

    • Anonymous

      I think the options are quarantining and/or testing beforehand, taking the risk, or having multiple nuclear family meals. Or teach your parents to Zoom. They are capable of learning even if not inclined.

    • SC

      Getting 20+ people together isn’t safe. As a compromise, could you or one of your siblings host your parents (after proper quarantining), then do something virtually (dessert + share what they’re thankful for) with the other families?

    • Anon

      My family has been talking about this and we’re considering doing Thanksgiving for immediate family only, as long as everyone isolates for 2 weeks before hand. All of us work remotely and only one sib has a kid in any sort of in-person program (preschool), so they’d probably pull her out for those 2 weeks.

    • anon

      Question about terminology here. When people say that they will “isolate” or “quarantine” before getting together with family, what do you mean? Aren’t we all generally doing that anyway?

      • pugsnbourbon

        True quarantine is staying in your home and not leaving for any reason – no errands, no groceries, no non-urgent Dr. appointments, etc. Everything you need, you get via no-contact delivery.
        If you’re going to the grocery store, you’re not quarantining.
        I heard on the radio – so, not confirmed – that in Hawaii, hotel keycards for mainland tourists work once in 14 days. That is, you get IN your hotel and if you leave, you’ve gotta really leave because you can’t get back in. Again, this was on the radio so unverified, but it drives the fact home – for true quarantine you are not leaving for ANY reason.

        • Anon

          Why would you go to Hawaii to sit in a hotel room for your entire stay? Especially when so many of the things you can do in Hawaii are outdoors.

          • Anon

            Because they probably are staying for a month or more and can do cool stuff after their 14 day quarantine.

          • pugsnbourbon

            I think almost no one is traveling there for pleasure right now, for this reason.

      • Anon

        I think the definitions of this vary widely. Technically, I am always “isolating” or “quarantining” in that I live alone, WFH, do curbside pickup for groceries, etc. But I also see friends one at a time outdoors for walks, occasionally do Starbucks mobile order and go inside to pick it up, and check out books from the library (self checkout, no human interaction).

        When I know I am going to see my immediate family, I don’t even do any of those things for two solid weeks. I only leave my house for walks in the park. I feel like I’m losing my mind, but at least I know I haven’t been exposed.

      • Quail

        For me, this would means having no in-person contact, even brief or socially distanced, outside my immediate family. Kids stay home from daycare, no nanny, no socially-distanced play dates, no house cleaners, no trips to the store. We are living socially distanced now. It would be very difficult to quarantine because we rely on childcare to be able to do our jobs.

      • SC

        I used “quarantine” above. I see it as staying entirely at home, except for solo outdoor activities in non-crowded spaces (like a walk in a suburban neighborhood, or a hike).

        I am working in the office everyday, and my kid is going to school and some regular medical appointments in person. DH or I run most of our errands in person. If we get takeout, we pick up our food ourselves instead of having it delivered. We have had socially distanced, outdoor meals with a couple sets of friends and with my in-laws. My parents have driven from out of town and stayed with us, after similar levels of activity.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      Are you in the same area? For Easter, my friend’s family divided up cooking and left a portion of whatever they made on family members’ porches so they could all eat the same meal, even if they weren’t together. So one person made the ham, one the potatoes, etc. You could do a phone call together. You could also either begin or end with apps or dessert and drinks outside so you wouldn’t be outside for long.

    • Anonie

      Would you consider renting a couple of heat lamps for a backyard event? If you ask everyone to bring along thick indoor-outdoor blankets/throws, I think it could work depending on your climate. Another thought…is your garage finished enough that you could host the event in there with the garage door fully open? That way, you’re getting airflow but are possibly a little better protected from the cold (again, assuming you rent a few heat lamps and everyone is bundled up).

  19. EB

    Any fun ideas for a birthday gift for a young woman (mid/late twenties) in the $50 range? We are friendly coworkers, she is junior to me, law firm, so looking for something relatively generic, but fun.

    • Anonymous

      Fancy home-office supplies? Something that’s nicer than she would buy for herself.

    • Anon

      I’m 27 and my new gift for any girlfriend gift situation is the “Embrace Ambition” bracelet from Tory Burch. It’s not a fine jewelry item, but I wear my rose gold one all the time and get lots of compliments – plus it has “Embrace Ambition” engraved in the little charm which is a great thing to look down and read throughout the day. All of the proceeds go to the Tory Burch foundation, which empowers female entrepreneurs.

      Other ideas:
      – Ugg blanket or other comfy throw to wrap up in during WFH
      – Stemless or stemmed wine glass set or champagne flutes
      – Nice, large ceramic mug with tea
      – Ulta/Sephora gift card (not just makeup but lots of treat yo self skincare and hair care options there)
      – Voluspa candle
      – Hardcover copy of classic book, such as Little Women, or recent bestseller, like Where the Crawdads Sing (or something you’ve read and recommend)
      – Semi-precious stud earrings from Tory Burch or Kate Spade

      I love gift giving, I hope this helps!

      • anon

        these are so thoughtful OP, thank for sharing this list….you are a kind friend

  20. Back Issues

    Thanks to everyone last week for your prompting. I was diagnosed with sciatica. (The practice’s protocols were not great–a sign on the door said to knock and wait in the lobby to have temperature taken, but they seemed to ignore the door, so there was a cluster of us waiting while basically climbing the walls to try to keep enough distance between us.)

    The doctor put me on muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories, which have changed absolutely nothing except to make me eat like a horse. I’ve maintained my weight within 5 pounds for several years, but since starting these meds last week I can’t quit shoving things in my face, to the point that I’m disgusted but still ravenous. Oddly enough, Dr. G**gle tells me that the one med (meloxicam) is also used to treat binge eating disorder.

    The doctor asked for an update in 7 days, so I expect to have answers by EOW.

    • anon

      Try acupuncture! My husband recently started going for his sciatica and has improved tremendously.

    • Anonymous

      Meloxicam is an anti-inflammatory and (as a healthcare provider) I have never heard of it being used to treat binge eating. What source told you that? Is it possible that you were also prescribed a steroid like Medrol? Appetite changes are fairly common with steroids. Hope you feel better soon!

    • anon

      Have you tried a chiropractor? I learned that sciatica can be caused by multiple things. My laymen’s interpretation of what I was told about my sciatica was that it was the muscle tightening and causing pressure on the nerve. Having a chiropractor show my different stretches, using TENS, and showing me where to put the TENS pads for at home use made a 100% difference. Also, don’t discount the benefit of an Epsom salt bath.

  21. Could use good mojo sent my way!

    I’m interviewing for a more senior position in a different busines unit in my organization tomorrow and Thursday. I’m excited, although having a teensy bit of imposter syndrome, and could use all the good mojo you can spare! The hiring manager wanted me for the position when it was open a little over a year ago, but I didn’t have quite enough experience for management to support me at that point. I have been in the junior version of this position for the last year and change gaining the exact experience they are looking for. I really love my current boss and teammates, so it’s a bit anxiety inducing to think about working with a new team. However, this would be a really good opportunity to further my career with this company. My boss is very supportive even though, in his words, “you will be extremely difficult to backfill” given a knowledge base I have that no one else really has at this company (or in our geographical region).

    Ahhhhhh!!!

    • Ellen

      We are having it at my Dad’s house, with Grandma Leyeh and Trudy already in attendence for at least 2 weeks. Grandma Trudy has been living there since the pandemic, and Grandma Leyeh will be driven out there by Rosa a week earlier to quarantine away from Grandma Trudy, who has IBS issues, and her own dedicated toilet. Grandma Leyeh will also have her own toilet, tho she does NOT have IBS, b/c she does not want to have to camp out by Grandma Trudy’s toilet waiting for her to get done. Grandma Trudy was tested at the Mayo Clinic, and other then the IBS/Crone issue, she is otherwise has a clean bill of health. Dad does not want Myrna coming this year b/c Myrna is outside his circle of trust b/c of what Dad described as her daliance’s with men in NYC. I told him she does not have s-x with men she does not know, but he is worried that she could have some issue downstairs and spread it when she goes to the toilet, even if she wears a mask around the house. I told Dad that if Myrna won’t be able to come, I will need a ride as the manageing partner wants me back in the office by September 21, even tho that means alot of back and forth b/c of the holidays. I am still pushing to make this in October, but it still means I will need a ride for Thanksgiving, which is NOT until November this year. If anyone has any suggestions, please share! TIA!

    • OP

      Thank you everyone! I am feeling fairly confident and appreciate your comments :)

  22. Melanie

    I’m a working parent in upper management at a large nonprofit. My spouse and I are splitting the virtual school supervision for our 1st grade twins. From the hours of 11-3 on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, I will be on virtual school duty and my kids need enough help that I will not be answering emails or messages. How do I craft a professional, yet real, out of office message for that time period that also sends a message to other staff at my organization that they don’t need to hide their care-giving responsibilities?

    • Anonymous

      I wouldn’t. I don’t think it’s appropriate to be advertising that you are unavailable at peak business hours. While still getting paid full time.

      • Anonymous

        +1 Can you not just not answer during a four hour period? If it’s a true emergency, wouldn’t people call your cell phone?

      • Anon

        Same. You have good intentions here from a leadership signaling standpoint, but I am going to refer to prior discussions how even higher ups would prefer this not be telegraphed this officially even though we know we are all doing it.

      • Melanie

        I have a lot of evening meetings, no one doubts that I work less than 45 hours a week. Our CEO encouraged us to be transparent about when we will be available.

        • Anonymous

          Transparency means blocking your calendar and telling your co-workers what your working hours are. It does not require an out of office message during periods of unavailability.

          • NYCer

            +1. There is absolutely no reason to put up an automatic reply for this.

            And like another posted mentioned below, once your kids get into the swing of things, you might find that you will be able to monitor emails/calls more than you are expecting during that time.

      • Anonymous

        Aren’t you likely multitasking and triaging? Even if something goes to vmail b/c I’m screening, I immediately check my messages and return on-fire calls right away. I am generally present while my kids are getting logged in, but once they are in I turn my attention to my work and let them do theirs.

    • Anon

      I’m not a parent but everybody on the team I work with is and so they are all dealing with this. They’ve shared their adjusted schedules with the team and any other people they work with on a very frequent basis and integrated those schedules in their calendars. But none of them have OOO responses because no email they get is going to go unread for any more than 12 or 24 hours. It’s possible that they’ll be less responsive to external folks than normal, but I think 1) those external folks are dealing with the same issues and understand 2) if they don’t, they’ll just have to deal with it. As a team we’re making changes as needed and moving meeting schedules around as necessary and just generally trying to be as flexible as possible.

    • NYNY

      My org’s Outlook has an option to set up an OOO message only for internal contacts. If you have the same, I would suggest using that. That way, you’re being transparent within the org but not sharing unnecessarily with people outside. I love that you’re trying to model this for your team, because I believe leadership needs to show that we understand the complexities and pressure of covidtimes, not just pay lip service!

    • Ribena

      Does your email software allow you to set different auto replies for internal and external messages? If so I would set an internal one that says something like “I have limited email access during the day today but will reply when I can, please SMS if urgent” and not set an external one.

    • No Face

      I personally think an out of the office auto response would be annoying.

      I like that you want to signal to other people that they don’t have to hide their caregiving. You could send a one-time email to your team saying, “I will be unavailable for calls or videoconferences from 11-3 on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays for virtual school” and block it off on your calendar.

    • Anon

      What if you focus on when you are available instead of when you aren’t? You could do it in a signature block instead of OOO but both could work. You could say, I respond to emails and voicemails from 9 am until 11 am and 3 pm to 5 pm. People might assume you are just doing intense writing from 11-3. Isn’t picking “response hours” one of those productivity tips?

      • Anonymous

        But it’s not even every day that she’s unavailable 11-3, Presumably you don’t have a lot of lunch meetings so you’re really only unavailable 11-12, and 1-3 (3 hours) three times a week compared to normal. That’s 9 hours. Don’t change your email signature line or set an OOO over nine hours.

    • Anonymous

      Don’t set an OOO message. I hate getting those just because someone can’t reply for a few hours. Realistically, you’re checking before they go live, checking for at least 15 minutes at lunch time when they eat, and checking as soon as they are done at 3pm. That’s not worth an OOO. Block the time in your calendar as unavailable so people don’t set meetings with you for that time but don’t bother with an OOO.

    • anon

      Someone at another company uses this in their email sig – I really like it:

      “I support flexible working and I’m sending this email now because it suits
      the hours I’m working today. Please do not feel obliged to reply straight
      away as I understand that you will reply during the hours you work.”

  23. Anonymous

    If you’re starting to date someone divorced who has young kids (but you haven’t met them yet), how often do you ask about them, how they’re doing, etc.? Not sure if I’m being nosy by asking about them too much or seeming like I don’t care by asking too little…

    • Anonymous

      I’ve always asked the person I am dating what level of asking they are comfortable with. None of us can answer this for him/her/them.

    • Anon

      In your situation and it naturally comes up a few times a week during the weeks that he has them (so every other week), either by me asking first or him sharing a story/photo.

    • Eager Beaver

      I was the one with a kid when my now spouse and I started dating. I appreciate that he followed my lead. He would ask some general “how’s johnny doing?” type questions and would ask follow-up questions, but let me initiate bigger conversations. Things progressed natrually from there. I think the key was that he made clear he wasn’t avoiding talking about my kid and he also wasn’t creepy about it. He also never pushed to meet my kid, but also let me know when he felt ready (about five months in) and left the ball in my court.

  24. Nancy Meyers' Kitchen

    Whoever recommended the Nancy Meyers’ kitchen list on spotify – thank you! Loving it.

    • Anon

      Yes! I’ve been listening to it nonstop (I was the one who originally posted asking for music recs). Thanks to whoever recommended it.

      I’m dancing around my decidedly non-Nancy Meyers-ish kitchen!

      • Bean74

        That was me! So glad you like it. I saw it mentioned in Real Simple and it was perfect for the rainy, chilly-ish day yesterday. It’s going to be my bridge music between October and mid-November when I start listening to Christmas music.

    • Anon

      Why would a split make a difference? One share for $2 and two shares for $1 each post split are the same thing.

      • Anon

        It makes a huge difference when someone has a set dollar amount that they are ready to invest in the stock market. The split was by 4, so purchasing one share at $500 was a lot to some people before. Purchasing now at $125 is a good way for people to get their foot in the door with owning some shares and letting them grow.

        • Anon

          But why would that affect the valuation ? I get why a split helps smaller investors (and long for the day Berkshire A does that, but for now I’m content with Berkshire B)

    • Anon

      No, but I did the last time it split and I’m glad I did. The only single stocks I own are my company’s stock (i sell 85% of it at every vesting but keep the rest invested) and Apple (for funsies – I put in a low 4 figure amount and it’s grown significantly and my hope is that in 20-25 years we can do something fun and frivilous with it like buy a mountain cabin or lake house).

      • Anon

        I also have had a bit of Apple stock for several years and the only thing I regret is not investing two bits rather than one.

        Amazon has also done really well for me.

  26. Anon

    What’s your favorite crema/sauce for fish or shrimp tacos?

    It’s Taco Tuesday and we’re trying to mix it up.

  27. Anon

    How do you go about finding a new primary care doc?

    I have a chronic autoimmune issue and mostly see a rheumatologist, but there are things I need a primary care doc for, like who to go to for vaccinations, an annual exam, etc.

    I read the thread above about cramps and the advice to switch doctors if yours doesn’t take your pain seriously. That description fits my PCP to a T. I finally had to seek out my own medical care team to get myself truly diagnosed – and my diagnosis is unmistakable, I just needed the right testing – thank goodness for PPOs where I could just make appointments with specialists directly.

    My current doctor took over the practice of my old PCP, who I felt really listened to me. The new doc spends all of her time typing notes into her laptop. (I know electronic medical records are a pain in the ass, but come on, talk to me for a sec) and minimizes anything I think is a problem.

    I don’t know how to find a new PCP. How do I know that the new person would have a better manner? And most importantly, how do I know they would have a front office that worked well rather than endless being placed on hold and being told not to come in?

      • Anon

        I don’t know all that many people in my city. Most of my friends are from work and live in farther out suburbs.

        • Anonymous

          Research people who take your insurance online & try one … switch every year or so as needed until you like one. Do it now while you just need the basics from them, so you’ll have a good one when you really need them.

        • Anon

          Sometimes local community groups on Facebook are good for these, but it highly depends on what yours is like. Quality of Facebook groups is significantly higher than Nextdoor.

    • pugsnbourbon

      It can really be a challenge, and having negative experiences in the past can make it feel a lot more stressful. Could you ask your rheumatologist for a referral?
      You mention you have a PPO – does the provider website have a “find a doctor” tool? Mine does, and I can sort by type of doc, gender, within a certain distance, and if they’re accepting new patients. More and more, these doctor profiles include more than just the basic info, and you can get some sense of what they’ll be like.

    • Away Game

      Some of it is going to be trial and error. You can start by searching through your insurance carrier for docs who take your insurance. Then sort by what you care about: do you want the doc to be a woman? Is there a location/hospital/town they need to in or near? Do they need to be part of a larger practice? Come up with a list of X number, then google them. See what the review say, if anything, on waiting rooms, billing practices, etc. I recently saw someone in my neighborhood on NextDoor ask for recs for a specialist, and there seemed to be two or three fav docs in that specialty, and two that had bad reps. Narrow the list and make some calls – are they taking new patients? When can you get an appointment? Set up a new patient visit, and if you don’t like something, call the next doc on the list. You may need to be limited based on insurance; not sure how many “new patient” visits in a few months’ time you can do.

    • Anon

      It is hard. You get so little time with your PCP these days and a lot of it is spent entering info into the computer. And as someone with a chronic medical condition who gets weird things, I understand how hard it is to find a doctor really listens to me instead of doing medicine by algorithm- if my problem could have been solved by Dr. Google, I wouldn’t be there in the first place! You could try asking your rheumatologist. I also second the rec for Next Door. I see a lot of posts asking for doctor suggestions and they give you a sense of who is good and who to avoid. There often seems to be a surprising amount of consensus! Unfortunately, in my area, most PCPs aren’t taking new patients at all and the wait for new patients is 4-6 months, so I didn’t really have much choice in my doctor. So far, she’s okay? I wish you better luck!

    • Anonymous

      I also have an autoimmune issue. My primary care doc was recommended by immunologist. Maybe ask the doctors on your team who they would consider seeing. Now all my docs work well as a team, which is really helpful!

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