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Wedding Jack
I know that this has been discussed at length in the past, but I either don’t remember what everyone said or I am hoping for a new answer. I am a maid of honor in an upcoming wedding for a family member. I am coming in from out of town and so is my guest. I have paid for travel and for party expenses for the bachelorette party, the bridal shower, and dress shopping. I have bought gifts for all previous events (each time at least $75) in addition to the expenses of the parties. I have money, but I feel like I am bleeding money for this wedding. I bought my dress for the wedding, I am paying for my hair and make up for the wedding, and I am paying for a hotel room for 2 nights for the rehearsal and wedding that is 200+/night. On top of it, the bride and groom are not paying for the wedding, the bride’s parents are paying in full. So all gifts are truly gifts and not going towards the cost of the guests. I know all of the ettiquite sites say I still have to give a gift. My guest and I truly feel that anything over $150 for the both of us is excessive, considering our flights, hotel, dresses, little things here and there and so forth. I feel like I shouldnt be required to show how much I care with any more money. Please help!
Anne Shirley
Anything over $150 is a problem? Then just give $150. Or $100. Or a pretty card with a thoughtful heartfelt note. You aren’t required to show how much you care with $$$, just like you weren’t required to spend more money on other parties and gifts than was comfortable for you.
lia
+1 though I’d recommend buying something since you’ve already gone this far. Maybe $50 item off the registry?
LilyB
$100 seems appropriate to me if you’re bringing a guest. But I don’t know why you spent so much on bachelorette/shower gifts if you weren’t comfortable doing so, especially in light of how much you spent traveling to those events.
Is it just me, or is it tacky to make bridesmaids pay for their own hair/makeup?
Dr. Lyn
+1 tacky
Especially when the bride/groom already have the “gift” of a wedding from parents.
All this excess/entitlement …. greed
Tara B.
You sound resentful. This is the reality of being a part of a wedding party. I am surprised “all the etiquette sites” did not give you this information. No one forced you to accept this role.
So do you take a gift or act like a selfish cheapskate? That’s up to you.
LilyB
wow, that’s really harsh. she does sound resentful, but can you blame her? expecting someone to travel to 3 events, shell out major $$ for a hotel (instead of maybe putting her up at your place/a friend’s place/a cheaper hotel), pay for her own hair/makeup (seems very tacky to me)… i don’t think these are normal expectations for a bridesmaid, unless you know she’s rolling in the dough.
Veronique
+1. My friend (who WAS paying for her wedding) paid for makeup and didn’t require any specific hairstyles, so we were a mix of pro styles and DIYers. Everyone looks great in the pics and you cannot tell who went to a professional.
It would have been nice for the bride to pay for makeup a and/or dresses when she wasn’t paying for the dresses. OP, I would pick something nice from the registry in the price you feel comfortable and write a heartfelt card. Anything from $50-150 would be reasonable, given your prior presence/presents and any bride that I’ve ever known would completely agree with me!
Anita
No, being expected to hemhorrage money is not the reality of being in a wedding party, unless the couple in question are a**holes and demand it.
Anon
+1
LilyB
$100 seems appropriate to me if you’re bringing a guest. But I don’t know why you spent so much on bachelor3tte/shower gifts if you weren’t comfortable doing so, especially in light of how much you spent traveling to those events.
Is it just me, or is it tacky to make bridesmaids pay for their own hair/makeup?
L
Little tacky. I figure if the bride cares about it, she pays (at least that’s what I’m doing for my bridal party). Figure it’s better than some trinket that no one wants anyways.
Anonymous
Generally, my feeling is that if its “optional,” then its not tacky to make them pay. Its tacky to force someone to have their hair and make-up done and then not pay. Offering to have the service available to those who want it is not tacky. That being said, it would be a nice gesture to pick up the tab for something.
As for the gift, give whatever you feel comfortable giving, but yea, if you didn’t want to spend all that for the shower and bachelorette, you should have spoken up. Presumably as MOH, you had some input. Also presumably, if you are MOH, this is a very good friend of yours, and as such, giving a nice gift would be a nice thing and not feel like an obligation.
Anonymous
Agree with this – there’s a huge difference (to me, anyway) between “hey, feel free to do whatever you want for hair and makeup, but if you’re interested, my hairstylist and makeup person are taking appointments, it’ll cost around $X for each, let me know if I should make you an appointment” vs. “you’re getting your hair and makeup done and it costs $X, so be there and don’t forget to bring cash.”
The first is fine to me – the second is rude.
Last note: my dearest friend in the world spent a lot traveling to/from wedding stuff for me (NOT required, to be clear, she just wanted to be there for everything, and happens to live in a different state than I do) and did not give a gift at the wedding. It was NBD, as far as I was concerned. (I only noticed at all because I was keeping a list for thank you cards – I wanted to make sure I was sending the “thanks for the beautiful toaster” note to the right person.)
Anonymous
+1. I’m probably at the lower end, but I typically spend $25-50 for engagement party and bridal shower gifts, and $100 for wedding gifts. I’m a high-earner in a HCOL area. You might re-consider your budget for these items for next time. I’d do at least an inexpensive wedding gift at this point.
bto
Very tacky. If the bride wants matching hair and makeup, she and the groom pay for it.
Wildkitten
I agree with this commentary on the gifts and prices.
Eleanor
I thought most etiquette guides agreed you just have to give one gift (assuming you can afford that). It sounds as though you’ve already given multiple gifts, in addition to your other expenses, so I don’t think you need to get another. Nor did you need to pay for travel and party expenses for all those other things if it was a financial hardship, except I think the dress and your own travel and hotel for the wedding are usually expenses to be expected.
Do you really think the bride is judging how much you care about her by how much money you spend on her? If so, she doesn’t sound like a real friend.
Anon in NYC
I agree. Dress, travel, hair and makeup, and hotel are (in my opinion) part and parcel of being in somebody’s wedding (although I do think that hair and makeup should be optional expenses).
I give gifts for wedding events based on what I can afford and the fact that I genuinely want to give that person a gift. Unless your friend is demanding that you spend this money on her, I wouldn’t hold it against her. Also, my MOH didn’t give me a gift on the day of my wedding, and I didn’t even give it a second thought. I was very surprised and touched when she gave us a first anniversary gift. So, if you feel like you want to give your friend a gift but are feeling the financial pinch now, that’s an idea.
Avodah
1.) Members of the bridal party are only “required” to give one gift.
2.) A gift is never, ever payment for your attendance to the wedding.
3.) An etiquette site that demands gift giving must be written by Crate & Barrel or Pier1, cuz a gift is a gift. Not a demand. Not a payment. Not a necessity.
4.) Please find a polite a spine and a lovely card and write a nice note to the bride and groom.
*I think I might be the last person on earth who thinks it is tacky to make bridesmaids pay for their own dresses and makeup, but what do I know?
LilyB
no, I totally agree with you!
Meara
The first time I was a bridesmaid it was for my sister’s teeny tiny wedding. No problem. The second time was for a friend, and while I expected to have to buy the dress (though didn’t love having to do it), I didn’t expect the last minute “oh you should be here at 8am and hair and makeup will be $50”!! I was like “no thanks, I can do my own (hi, I already paid for a plane ticket and hotel room)”
SW
I agree with all of this, right down to the dresses or makeup. If the bride wants the bridal party to wear something specific and fix their hair and makeup a certain way, the cost should fall to the bride. Being in a wedding party should be an honor, not a burden.
Mountain Girl
Being in a wedding party should be an honor, not a burden.
+1000 on this comment
TCFKAG
Nope, I agree. I mean, I understand why brides do it [its basically the LAST cost that they come up against and its just oh.so.easy to say “oh I’ll just have them pay for it] but there was no way I was asking my bridesmaids to pay for something that (a) I was asking them to do and (b) after they had bought dresses and travelled. Luckily my Mom paid for it because my husband sort of balked at the expense (we paid for the rest of the wedding.)
Ellen
Be glad for the bride! I would NOT be cheep b/c you may get married Hopefuuly. You have to convince your PARTNER. (whoever s/he is) not to focus on money. Enjoy that you have some WEDDING to go to.
Micheal met me for pasta primervera at a place on 48th. He did not want to go uptown and was romantic b/c he paid a little dwarf $5 to sing happy birthday and it was NOT MY BIRTHDAY! Yay!
He was also a gentelman b/c he did NOT STARE at me! All other men looke at my boobies not my eyes. He said he did not want to go to bed with me unless he cared for me and that was NOT Determinible after 1 date.
I told him I agreed. He opened the door for me and let me order first. Alan never did that and Gonzalo put his hands all over me! I am not a dog that wants men’s hands on my tuchus and boobies on day 1.
We agreed to meet again. Yay!
I hope he tells the judge b/c I have a difficult motion I need to win. We shall keep hopeing he is not a looser! Yay!
Lyssa
I think that $150 is a generous amount for a gift in general (unless you’re say, parents of a bride or groom). IMO a nice gift in the $50-$75 range is perfectly appropriate, even without the other expenses you listed. Do people really expect to be getting $150+ gifts from every one of the several dozen people they invite to their wedding?
Wildkitten
No. We’ve had many discussions on thissite about the amount of money to be spent on gifts and no matter your industry or geography $150 has always been the ceiling and not the floor.
bto
Yup, I asked this question recently. My sister was told 200 per couple, so I asked around and everyone said closer to 100 a couple. I usually go 150 if I dont have to travel, 100 if I do. My main cities where I go to weddings are both high cost of living areas with high earners. I can see myself upping it to 200 when I am older and going to my friends’ kids weddings
Anon for this
Related to this, I’m just curious- what do you think of a couple not registering and asking for money for their wedding? The manner in which they asked is by putting a link on their wedding website under “Registry” which takes you to a page with a cutesy poem asking for cash. To be fair, said poem doesn’t demand a gift, but states they would prefer cash bc they want to buy a house. Does this seem kind of tacky to anyone else?
For background, the bride and groom are in their late 20s. They have lived together for about a year. The bride’s parents are paying for the majority of the wedding and it’s going to be a fairly elegant affair.
bto
Aweful. Those and honeymoon registries are so tacky. People know the couple would like cash, everyone in the history of the world likes cash. Plus a general rule of thumb is if you have to make a cutesy poem, you are probably doing something wrong.
Anne Shirley
Tacky. And unnecessary. If you don’t register I know you want cash.
Anon for this
Thanks for the replies, I was feeling really awful about thinking this since the bride is one of my best friends.
S in Chicago
If you don’t register, it doesn’t always mean you want cash. We didn’t register–but that was because we truly didn’t want presents.We had a very small destination wedding in a location that was very personal to both of us. The family and very close friends who were attending had travel, so I didn’t want any presents on top of it. And I didn’t want folks who weren’t able to attend to feel pressured in any sort of way to acknowledge the occasion. My husband had already been married as well, which already makes for being more than gifted. Honestly, I just wanted the whole gift thing to go completely away.
Anon
Honestly, I don’t see how it’s any worse than saying where you’re registered. I know, it’s considered rude to talk about gifts, but honestly almost everyone is going to seek out a registry and if you don’t say something about it, it’s kind of annoying for people buying a gift (which is basically everyone going to the wedding, let’s face it). Gift giving is part of our culture, so I’m not going to think someone is greedy for saying what they would prefer when I’m going to the website specifically to find that out.
Anonymous
A registry is where you put items for your house that match your style/color scheme. Its to help guests figure out what things are your style that you dont have. Asking for money is just straight up begging. Its so tacky. Cash is not a “gift” so people don’t need help figuring what kind of cash to give you.
Rosalita
I can understand thinking it’s more tacky/greedy than a registry, but it isn’t really.
Creating a registry was one of the worst things I had to when I got married (in my 30s). I had just moved in with my now-husband, and we had just gone through and gotten rid of so much household stuff.
People want to share their love. Creating a registry is letting them know how certain sharing might be the more appreciated. I see no difference between that and saying that cash is really the most helpful (because it is, for everyone).
But if the bride’s family has so much dough to shell out for this elegant wedding, why not help the newlyweds with a down payment? Way better investment.
Anon for this
Maybe it’s just me, but I usually give $300-400 as wedding gifts. I’m early 30’s, and most of my friends started getting married in their late 20’s/early 30’s. I think this falls on the generous side for my circle of friends, but not overly so. I’m in NY, FWIW.
Yellow
I’m in the same boat. While I would never be upset at a friend for any kind of gift, at my wedding receiving checks for $1000-500 from older couples (parents friends)/families was the norm and gifts of 250-300 was the norm from people my age (late 20’s). I’m in nyc and many of my friends are in finance so ymmv. I also got some gifts of $50 or cards from my friends who are in public interest law and more than anything I appreciated them being at the wedding.
I would say that you should at least give a heartfelt card. There were some people who didn’t give anything and it made me nervous as I was cross referencing between the people who attended and the gifts I had written thank you notes for that maybe something got misplaced or left at the venue. At least if I had gotten a card I could have written a thank you for attending and known that there was nothing that got lost along the way!
Anon
Holy moly, that is a lot, especially for a friend. I think $100 is generous.
Anon
Same boat here in terms of location and age; I tend to give close to $300 for friends and $350 for cousins who are now getting married. We can afford it and $100 feels too low. I got married 5 years ago not in NYC (but in another East Coast city that is slightly cheaper) and the per plate was closer to $150-160 (not that you have to match the per plate, but it was a little eye-opening in terms of gauging gift amounts). I don’t think anyone should ever shell out more than they could afford, period. I also think that if travel/hotel/dress expenses are all you can manage, that’s totally great.
For my own wedding (while in grad school) I was so thrilled my friends (also grad students) could come. That being said, we got some generous gifts from older friends and I am happy that we’re able to be generous now in return to our friends. I do hate bridal showers with a fury that surprises me, because it mostly feels like gift grubbing. For younger folks who are less established, I’m a little more tolerant, but for my now-early 30s friends with high-earning jobs, I think it’s greedy on some level (because they can totally afford the nice kitchen toys you get with these things). Happy to attend engagement parties to celebrate, but will pretty much refuse non-family showers (thankfully that is not a thing my friends have really done). Also consider bachelorettes completely optional, unless you’re in the wedding party, and even then a real conflict is a perfectly acceptable reason not to go.
Apparently I’m an old grump these days…
Deep End
Wow, that’s a lot! I got married in the south though had just moved from NYC and had a lot of friends from there attend. The largest gifts we received were from my parents ($500) and a friend in NY ($150). I thought both were really generous. I can’t imagine receiving $300-400 from a friend.
For what it’s worth though, about 1/3 of our guests didn’t give any gift. I had the same issue of worrying that I had misplaced a card or gift.
just Karen
+1 on having 1/3 of our guests not give a gift or card…which was fine, but I sure would have liked to get a card just so I was totally confident I hadn’t misplaced something or had gifts/cards stolen!
Avodah
None of my friends are worth $300. Period.
a
Those amounts are crazy high in my (upper middle class) circles. The only people who gave us amounts like that were close, elderly relatives.
AnonInfinity
Yes. Sometimes reading this stuff makes me feel so cheap, but I always give a gift in the $50-75 range. The only variation from this was one of my best friends, and I gave a $70 gift for the shower and $50 cash at the wedding. That was completely standard for my wedding gifts. I could count the number of more expensive gifts on one hand.
Nonny
Yup, I’m with you, AnonInfinity. It is possible to give really nice gifts for less than $100. I consider what an appropriate gift for the couple would be, and what they really need, not how much it will cost. I think I’ve given a wedding gift over $100, like, twice, one of which was for my own sister.
Anon
Sounds like you’ve given all the gifts you need to give for this wedding.
Deep End
I agree. Why not just give a small gift ($25 or under) that is more personal and a card if you really feel you must give another gift? A few of my favorite gifts came from bridesmaids – personalized calendars for my work desk with pictures of us and a care package of how to survive our new city. They definitely weren’t wedding related but obviously took thought and were really fun to receive.
Hel-lo
+1
posey
I would give what you feel comfortable with, but if you think the bride is going to be disappointed/annoyed, or even surprised, at your gift, I would consider talking to her about it, potentially after the wedding. I had a friend (A) who got married and Friend B and I were bridesmaids (amongst others). Friend B didn’t have a lot of money and Friend A was annoyed that Friend B didn’t give her a big enough gift for the wedding. This was after we had to buy our dresses, pay for travel, pay for staying in a fancy hotel, pay for multiple other gifts, etc. Friend A was being completely petty and ridiculous (and it actually changed a lot of my opinions about Friend A to hear her complain about this) but I also think that a lot of it could have been smoothed over if Friend B had explained her situation to Friend A. (Friend B was oblivious and probably to this day doesn’t know that Friend A is still annoyed about this).
s-non
But I would hope that a conversation isn’t really needed about this. If you’re close enough to ask someone to be a bridesmaid, I would think you would have some idea of your friend’s financial situation and would understand not receiving a “big enough” gift. I hope Friend B can remain happy and oblivious because it’s not her concern.
posey
You would think, but Friend A turned out to be really petty about it. I was really surprised by her feelings on this so you never know. People get all wrapped up and crazy about their weddings and can turn into these alternate-universe evil versions of themselves (or maybe it was in there all along and they felt free to let it all loose because it was their wedding).
I don’t think Friend B has an obligation to justify herself, just recognizing that sometimes you have such a long relationship with someone that it’s better to get everything out into the open than to let bad feelings fester.
HnH
All the costs sound demanding but expected, albeit at the end of the spectrum where bride wants everything that can come with a wedding (party, shower, presumably expensive location from your hotel costs, and every event happening where you need to travel). The only thing that sounds really off is your having to pay for hair/makeup. !!! I would go in with what you’re comfortable with and a heartfelt card. If she finds issues with that she’s not worth worrying about.
TBK
I don’t think any of my bridesmaids gave me gifts except the one who was local gave a small item for my shower (cookbook) and one other one sent a gorgeous cream silk nightgown. I paid for their hair (we all did our own makeup) and they paid for their dresses, flights, hotel, and rental cars — which was quite enough, I thought.
Blonde Lawyer
The only wedding gift I was upset about was a $25 check that bounced that caused my bank to charge me a $10 fee. I was more upset with my bank than the guest and actually was worried about the guest if a $25 check is bouncing. I never brought it up and she never brought it up. If it hadn’t bounced, I wouldn’t have cared about the amount.
Anon
Can I just say that I love that neither of you brought it up. I think that was very kind of you. If she’s wondering why you never deposited the check, she’ll bring it up. If she doesn’t, she’s probably too embarassed to ask. You’re a kind soul.
Hel-lo
Um, if $25 bounces her account, then chances are, she’s not a keeping an eye on records that closely.
roses
Two things –
1) The only thing that being a bridesmaid requires you to do is to buy your dress and show up on time to the wedding. You could have politely declined to participate in the other activities. I do sympathize if there was pressure from the bride to have your hair/makeup done or to attend the bachelorette, and I think it’s unreasonable to exert such pressure, but ultimately you are the one who chose to go along with it, so please try to temper your bitterness with that.
2) Related to 1), as a recent bride, there was a lot of pressure on ME from others to have certain events (showers, bachelorette) or to do things in a certain way (e.g., have the wedding/rehearsal in particular locations). While I would often have preferred to skip these things, the backlash I would have received from others just made it not worth it. I guess my point is, if having these extravagant events was out of character for your friend, she may have been going along with it because others expected her to, not because she wanted to demand all of this gifts/expenses from you. If she’s really your friend, the most important thing is that you were there for her wedding, not that you spent anything on her.
New Bride
+1. I had a shower because my bridesmaids, mom, and DH’s mom/family wanted to throw one. I felt pretty uncomfortable about it, but did it because they wanted it. I did not have a bachelorette party because I recently quit drinking. Everyone was ok with that.
(I also let all the bridesmaids pick their own black long dresses (& shoes/jewelry/accessories), and offered hair and makeup at my salon as an option that they could pay for. Some opted not, and that was fine, and they looked great or better than the ones who came to the salon.)
Anon
You should give them a card and say that you’ll take them out to dinner after they get back from their honeymoon. They’ll love it because they’ll want someone to talk about how amazing their trip was, show someone photographs, etc. You’ll enjoy it because you’ll spend time with them and enjoy the meal in their company. If I was the bride, I’d enjoy this very much.
Abby Lockhart
I’ve only read one wedding etiquette book, Martha Stewart’s, and as I remember it, she consistently said that members of the wedding party should give a gift — unless being in the wedding IS your gift. I think you’ve done as much as you need to. I’m in favor of a great card and a sentimental/symbolic, but not expensive, gift here — a photo, a book with a nice inscription, a dohickey with an appropriate saying or advice, a souvenir of a relevant site (couple’s meeting/engagement/wedding), etc.
anon
Relationship TJ–
I’m a little down in the dumps today. I had a discussion with my SO of one year last night about where we stand. Sparing you a lot of details–it basically boiled down to me knowing he’s the one, and him being happy in the relationship, but not YET knowing I’m the one. It hurt, and I told him so. It just feels like I’m in this sort of waiting game for him to decide if this relationship will go anywhere or if I’m wasting my time. Granted–I get that a year might not be enough time for some people to make such a big decision, but it doesn’t make it any less painful for me. I’m at a loss of how to move forward. I think that he and I should take a few days to mull things over, but other than that I have no idea how I want to move forward. Thoughts? (by the way he’s 30 and I’m just shy of 27).
Anonymous
Ugggh. I don’t know if I would stick around for someone who is not sure if I’m the “one” a year in. I think I would want someone that was head over heels and showed it.
I would look for someone that can’t stand to be apart from you and is positive that you are perfect for him.
Anne Shirley
This. It’s a very personal decision, but im not interested in being with someone who doesn’t know, after a year of dating at age 30, whether I’m the one. I’m more decisive than that, and I want someone who shares my view that when you find someone you want to share your life with, you get going on it.
Anonymous
Yes. He doesn’t have to marry you tomorrow, but he should know that he loves you and doesn’t want to lose you. It doesn’t sound like he knows that.
bto
Agree. After a year I wouldnt be expecting enagement asap, but after a year the answer should to where are we going should be, we are going there together. (whether its towards marriage, towards kids, commitment, etc)
LilyB
I totally get where you’re coming from. It’s not like you expect him to know whether he wants to marry you right now- but you should be able to expect that he knows if everything continues as it is now, at some point he will want to make that commitment. Does that make sense? Either it’s headed in that direction or it isn’t, and if he’s having doubts now, I think that’s a red flag. I’m not sure what I would do in your situation; I’d need more information, but based on what you’ve said, I don’t know if I could continue to be happy in a relationship where I constantly felt like I was auditioning for something. Hugs to you, I hope everything works out!
anon
He sort of gave the indication last night that there is potential at some point in the future. For instance, I was the first person to say “I love you” in our relationship–like months before him. But he assured me he took those words seriously, and that it would require some time for him to get there, but he was confident that he would. And he did.
He referenced this last night and said I’m not sure you’re the one, but remember how it took me time to say I love you? And said it wasn’t as though he didn’t see a future at all.
But still, I can’t help but feel like this is much more serious than “I love you” and it could take months or years for a person to decide I’m “the one” (I hate that phrase, but it’s what we used–so I’m going with it).
And he’s displayed nothing but happiness and being head over heels (and said that he’s always excited to see me and looks forward to seeing me and is happy when we’re together). But the real difference is that I’m confident he’s absolutely perfect for me. And he just…isn’t. I don’t know whether I should wait for him to come around or not? I don’t want to lose the person who I see as being perfect for me or to rush him into coming to a similar conclusion, but somehow this conversation has definitely dampened my excitement for any sort of future.
emeralds
With this information, I can absolutely understand where you’re coming from, and how you would be questioning your futures together. But I would consider giving him a break here, if you know it takes him longer than it takes you to be able to verbalize this kind of big statement. I think I tend to fall more on your boyfriend’s side of the spectrum–big commitments and big statements make me really nervous (read as: terrified), and I want to be absolutely, absolutely, sure before I make them (e.g., I have never said “I love you” to a boyfriend, at all, ever), so I think I can also understand some of where he’s coming from.
If I were you, I would consider having one more talk about marriage/futures/being “the one,” and then agree to revisit it in [insert mutually-agreeable time frame here].
January
+1. I think Lyssa’s response below is really wise, too.
Bonnie
I can see somebody saying that they’re not ready t0 move on to marriage after a year, but there should be some mutual thoughts about the future.
Anon
Speaking from the position of someone who had a screaming argument with her SO of many years last night that culminated in him reminding me that he will never marry me or have children with me – you should move on now. And I’m mid 30s.
Godzilla
Whoa, let’s talk about you. What’s happening?
Anon
Sh*tty few days (work is hectic and stressful and I didn’t want to admit it because then I’m not all-powerful superwoman). Time of the month. Not sleeping well. Not really talking to him about any of this. Was communicating like cr*p and it spiraled out of control. And instead of owning my mistakes and apologizing, I got super defensive and went on the attack. Which obviously didn’t help. It was bad. Sometimes we are so right for each other it is scary, and other times, it seems like we come from completely different planets.
Godzilla
Hugs and rawrs. Maybe down some of your favorite foods and send a text or email explaining you’ve had a few awful days and didn’t mean to take it out on him?
Anon
Thanks, Monster. Right now I’m giving us both space (he’s got a lot of work to do today, as do I, and I don’t like to use electronic communication for emotional issues). I plan on talking to him tonight once we’re both home (we live together) and apologizing for the part I played.
I just wish this wasn’t a pattern for us. I am terrible about being honest with him when I’m upset/stressed/worried, and it never ends well.
Avery
Oh my gosh, I am so sorry.
NOLA
So sorry. That’s awful. I hope you can move on.
bto
Sounds like you should also move on now. Sorry to hear that
L
DTMFA
and then have a big glass of wine.
emeralds
+1, and also +a few to the “big glass of wine” count. So sorry you’re going through this.
Baconpancakes
Yikes! So sorry to hear that. Agree with L above, although I’d add a big piece of chocolate cake, myself.
Anon
Ouch. I hope you dumped him.
Anonymous
Wow, that sounds absolutely terrible. Cut your losses and run I say.
Lyssa
I’m so sorry that you’re going through that – I can understand that it must hurt. As for going forward, I’m sort of with those that are concerned that he should *know* at this point – I’ve personally never understood people that want to wait forever to decide on these sorts of things. That said, particularly because this time frame is not necessarily unusual, you should consider his personality. Is he a careful and deliberative, but then firm, decision maker? Does he show commitment to his family and friends? Basically, is he dragging his feet, or just being extra careful? If you think that he is, give him some more time, but if you’re still in this place in 6 mo to a year (I wouldn’t specifically tell him that you’re counting), you need to seriously think about moving on.
All that said, I really worry for people (almost always women, and, let’s face it, it hits us harder because of the age things) who commit to someone who doesn’t want to commit to them – be particularly careful if you live with him. As Anon at 10:36 alluded to, once you’re entrenched in a relationship, it’s so much easier to just stay when you should move on, and eventually, you just run out of time to achieve things that you want, like family and marriage (assuming that those are things that you want, of course). So, be careful and make sure that you are after the same things. Good luck to you.
L
+1
If he’s normally a thoughtful and deliberate person, then let him have a little bit of time *without* pressuring him to decide right this second. Lyssa’s advice is spot on with respect to personality.
Anon
I also agree. I’m a thoughtful and deliberate person. I won’t make a final decision until I’ve weighed all the risks. It’s very annoying to people who know me, but they know that once I decide something, it’s written in stone.
anon
OP here–I really appreciate all of the responses. Particularly yours, as it sort of gets to the heart of my issues. He’s incredibly deliberative and careful with relationship decisions. And he’s showed immense commitment with family and friends (always inviting me to birthdays, sunday dinners, funerals, etc. and insisting that I attend). Also, he’s a child of divorce (and he’s mentioned lots of times how this has affected how seriously he takes relationship decisions). And we don’t live together, so there’s no pressure there. Thus, I’d say he’s being extra careful. I think it’s wise of me to give him some time to decide (6 months is probably my max), and then let it go if he isn’t there yet. Not because of some ticking clock, but just because it’s too emotionally draining for me to continue with someone when we aren’t on the same page.
Senior Attorney
I think that sounds like a good plan. I’m a generation older than you, and in the process of my second divorce, and FWIW, my feeling is that nobody is “the perfect one for you” unless he is head-over-heels crazy for you and is convinced that you are the perfect one for him. I can understand how you might want to give this one a reasonable amount of time to get there, but I completely support you in letting go if he doesn’t.
Monday
The one thing I might add is that not everyone believes in “the one” or that anyone is “perfect for them.” These are terms the OP used to describe her feelings, but although I am happily married I have never felt this way about anyone because it just isn’t the way I think. Mr. Monday was super-decisive about me, and raised the issue of marriage first, but his attitude is the same; that there is no “one.” If this is your SO, I acknowledge that that in itself may be a compatibility problem. However, if it’s just a matter of language (in addition to a general tendency to move slowly and cautiously about everything) then the situation could deserve a second look.
Senior Attorney
Strangely, I don’t disagree with this.
Perhaps I should amend to say that although I’m also not necessarily a believer in “the one perfect One,” given that the OP plainly DOES think in these terms, I think she needs to consider whether she is wrong on her facts if she thinks/feels somebody is “perfect” for her when he doesn’t think/feel the same about her.
Hel-lo
I don’t believe in “The One” either. But I know I want to be with my husband the rest of my life. And that he makes me happy now, and the thought of growing old with him, and facing challenges by his side, makes me extremely happy,
Carrie Preston
Hmm, I can see him not being quite ready to make that statement as he might feel like you’d get married next/soon and that can be a big deal since you both sound relatively young (certainly could be ready to get married but also could be in a phase of not quite ready to settle down). I’d probably give this one more time given your ages and that you think he’s perfect for you, that’s not so easy to find.
anon
I know many on this site have been accused of being too quick to encourage others to leave relationships at the slightest hint of turbulence – but this ranks at the top of my list of red flags. Please do yourself a favor and leave. He will never love you the way you love him, or the way you want and deserve to be loved.
Baconpancakes
Maybe I’m projecting here, but what exactly makes a year the point at which you should know if you want to spend the next 50-60 years with a person?
It hurts that he’s not certain about you being “the one” when you are. But I don’t think that 1 year in, that’s a deal breaker.
There’s definitely a stereotype of young women staying with guys who aren’t going to commit because the women think if they stay long enough, they’ll get married and live happily ever after. But there’s also a troubling trend of falling head over heels for someone, getting married, and realizing three years down the line that maybe you should’ve waited another year or two to figure out whether you would actually work together as a couple, long-term. A third of my married-early friends are getting divorces already. I personally would applaud his careful deliberation, but agree with Lyssa’s observation that you need to decide for yourself whether he’s normally a careful decision maker or whether he’s just dragging his feet.
That said, if you set yourself a time limit of 1 year, or 2 years (and communicate it to him!), and you know your answer at the end of that time period, and he doesn’t have the answer you want, it’s your perogative to leave the relationship. You don’t owe him anything.
Anne Shirley
For me, it just doesn’t matter why, because it doesn’t work for me. He’s a careful decision maker? That’s going to drive this quick to decide gal absolutely up the wall for the rest of our lives. But then again I’ve been dating a guy for 3 months and we’re already talking “future” in that vague, babies-yes!, suburbs/yes!, sort of way, which I’m sure sounds crazy to plenty.
Anonymous
It doesn’t sound crazy, but I’ve known a lot of couples who “talk about the future” at 3 months because they are head over heels infatuated, and then break up at like 6-9 months. So talking about it doesn’t mean its going to happen.
Mpls
It may drive her nuts, but it may also make her say “huh, this is the way he is. Can I live with that? Does that (possible) con outweigh all the other things I like about him?”
Hel-lo
I knew my DH wanted to be a dad from our first few dates. I found that incredibly attractive. It’s important to check with a potential bf up front whether they see the same future as you.
(It doesn’t mean you’re about to break up in 6-9 months. Jeez.)
roses
Agreed – I don’t think a year is a magical point where someone should know that the person he/she is with is “the one.” That said, I agree that you should be on the same page that marriage/kids are a *possibility*, if that’s what you want. Otherwise you’re wasting your time.
Anonymous
To add to this: I’m a person where one year is certainly not enough to base such a big decision on. To me that seems lightning quick to make such a big decision. In my opinion and borne out of experience in longer relationships, you really don’t know someone through and through in just a year.
To add another wrinkle: current SO and I have been together for 4 years and I am in love with him and seeing this going all the way to grey hair and walkers but nonetheless for me marriage is a practical decision not a lovey dovey one and while I would say yes, I would go into it with eyes wide open on finances, preparations, that things won’t always be rosy, etc.
Susie
About a 1.5 years after we started dating, my now-husband told me he wasn’t sure if he could marry me. I was super pissed and yelled at him to just get the h3ll out then. We were “broken up” for a few days, talked and worked it out, 2.5 years later he proposed, and we’ve been married for 5 years. Though he was quite a bit younger at the time, early 20s.
TBK
It was earlier than that for us (8 months) but my husband was ready to marry me WAY before I was ready and we went through the same thing. I don’t know, a year isn’t very long. We’d been together about 1.5 years when we did get married and I still wasn’t sure. Now, I’m totally 100% happy and committed and completely in love with my husband. I’m not saying wait around forever, but maybe this is the time to start conversations about what marriage means to you, how you think you’ll “know”, what your life would look like if you did get married (have you had these chats? the kids/no kids? what part of the country will we live in? how do we deal if we have conflicting career needs? etc. etc.? Because if you haven’t, start with those and do that for six months and see where you are.)
Also, what’s his relationship past? Are his parents married or divorced? I had a lot of commitment issues I was working through and just had no idea what really being in love with somone meant (FYI, I don’t think it has to be “head over heels” for marriage. I was head over heels for my college boyfriend, but never for my husband. My love for my husband is much quieter, more profound, and much more deeply rooted and head over heels just isn’t an apt descriptor.)
Calico
This is such a nice story and echoes many of the things happening in my current relationship. Thanks for sharing!
TBK
Btw, I’m a little skeptical of some of the language being thrown around about whether “X loves Y enough” to get married. I think it’s very possible to love someone very, very much and still not have them be the right person for you to marry. As I said, I really, really loved my college boyfriend, but we wanted different things out of life and so we broke up. My husband, however, I love but also he and I agree on what we want out of life, how we want to raise children, how to handle careers, etc. Love is necessary but not sufficient for marriage. (In fact, I might say that you can marry someone before you’re fully in love with them, as long as you see the potential. My love for my husband when I married him doesn’t hold a candle to my love for him now that we’ve been husband and wife for three years. I expect in 20 years, my love for him will be even more.)
So I’d just warn against the thinking that says “if you really loved me you’d marry me” or “how can he say he loves me if he isn’t sure he wants to marry me” or “he loves me — what else does he need to know?” I’m not really sure that amor vincit omnia when omnia can include so many mundane but deeply important life decisions.
Wombat
Are you me?!?
Back in May, at the one year mark, I had the same convo with my SO. He is 32, and I am just shy of 27. I had, and still have, the exact same thoughts you are having. When we first had the conversation, he said that he had not given it any thought whatsoever. We talked about it at length, and I told him that I would give him some time to think it over. Two months later, I asked for a status update, and he said he still did not know. I told him that if he did not love me enough to want to spend the rest of his life with me, he should let me go so that I could find someone who would. He assured me that he loves me very much and does not want to lose me. I gave him another month to think it over, then brought it up again. Of course, he still did not know. I was, naturally, very upset. I explained why his complacency upset me so much. I told him that he needs to get his act together, especially since he knows he wants to have kids. I laid out my ideal timeline (marriage next fall, kids a few years later). I told him that I was running out of patience with him, and that if he did not figure out what he wanted out of our relationship soon, I would have no choice but to walk away. At that point, I left and gave him two days to think about everything we talked about.
Fast forward to last week, and he mentioned for the first time that he knows he wants to have kids in the next three years (before, he said he wanted to have them “someday”). He also saw me looking at engagement rings the other day and asked questions about my preferences. Although neither is a sign that he has decided, I think he is starting to give it serious consideration. I am giving him until the end of the year to figure out what he wants, and if he hasn’t by then, I owe it to myself to walk away.
I am sorry you are going through this, and I know just how frustrated you feel. I would give him a few months to think about things, then reassess the situation. At that point, if he has not made any progress, I would give serious thought to whether you want to continue in the relationship. Only you know your tolerance level, and only you can decide whether you are willing to wait.
R
I don’t know the rest of your relationship situation, so take this for what it’s worth.
It sounds like you’ve threatened to leave several times and haven’t followed through. He’s figured out how to say just barely enough to satisfy you for the moment and keep you from leaving. While you feel like there’s progress, technically it’s all still in your head at this point – he still hasn’t said he wants to marry you or have kids with YOU.
Again, I don’t know your full situation. But if this is a pattern, that you have to make large threats in order for him to make vaguely positive statements, then maybe reevaluate if this is the type of relationship you want to be in, or if you would want to raise a future daughter/son to believe this type of relationship is okay. (Spoken as the child of parents who have 5 divorces between them because they keep falling into this pattern.)
Anon too
I was in your shoes with my current boyfriend and I know how tough it can be. I was super angsty about it when I went through it.
My boyfriend chased me for years before we finally got together and so naturally I thought he thought I was “the one” too and that it wouldn’t take long until he was in love with me. Well, I fell first and hard and it took him much longer to get to the I love you point. I remember I told him around 1 year that I loved him (after having resisted the urge for months) and he didn’t say it back until 6 months after that. During this time I got super drunk at a wedding and picked fights with him because I was certain he wasn’t ever going to love me like that. Of course I never said the real reason, but it turns out he knew it all along. After he said he loved me, though, it was like night and day. Suddenly he was talking about marriage, and specifics about it. It actually put me off a bit because it was so quick from love to seriously talking marriage. We started dating when he was 28 and I was 25. We’ve just celebrated our third anniversary, we live together, and are talking about getting engaged soon.
None of my previous relationships were like this- the guys always fell before me. But I’m glad that we took it very slowly and got to where we are now. In the end I think you need to trust your gut. If you really think he’s perfect for you, then the high reward is worth the wait, imo. The extra time can help you get to know him better, which never hurts. Either way, good luck!
TO Lawyer
I may be projecting my own issues here but I would be really careful about continuing to invest in this relationship. I was with my ex for over a year and we were talking about marriage and I didn’t listen to the red flags that were flashing in my face that clearly said he didn’t see a future with me (even though he told me he did). I think a year is more than enough time to know if you want a future with someone, even if you’re not necessarily ready to get engaged/married after that time.
If you want to give it 6 more months, you should but I would just be cautious. I hope your relationship is different but nothing in my life has ever been so painful as having the rug pulled out from under me and I would really hate for that to happen to you.
OP anon
eek I’m sorry you had to go through that. May I ask what the red flags were?
TO Lawyer
There were a lot of them, not all of which are relevant to you (apparently I have awful taste in men) but he had issues saying he loved me and planned his life/future without factoring me into it (i.e. it was his future, not mine). Even though we talked about marriage in the abstract, he hated planning ahead with me in mind. He also hesitated talking about any specifics of our future life together and was very resistant re family commitments. Turns out he wasn’t anti-commitment in general, just didn’t see a future with me. And I didn’t realize until it was too late.
Anyways, like I said, I’m probably projecting and I don’t know what your relationship is like but I would just be careful. I hope your guy is different!
JMDS
Any recommendations for maternity tops that have worked for you? I work in a business formal office, so I wear suits most days and need some good quality maternity shells for under my suits. I buy a lot of Tahari and Ann Taylor, so those are out, and I have found Loft’s maternity quality so-so. TIA!
Anonymous
There seems to be a paucity of high quality silk maternity tops. PregAnon (is that her name?) did a round-up of maternity store on her blog that may be helpful. Isabella Oliver is great quality, but most stuff is jersey material; not appropriate for under a suit. The Hatch is expensive, but I don’t have any experience with how the quality is. Honestly for blouses, I have purchased 3-4 silk blouses in a couple sizes bigger than regular and have been wearing those under suits. I’m 20 weeks and have room to grow in these, but I don’t know how they’re going to work near the end when the bump is really prominent.
NewMama
I had a few from Pea in the Pod that I got off the sale rack at Destination Maternity. Gap’s quality was decent. The saving grace about being pregnant is that you’re not expected to reach the same level of formal dress. I wore a pencil skirt and a sweater to a deposition. And a plain black dress to a few depos. At that point I couldn’t fit into my old suit jackets.
anon-oh-no
i mostly bought tops from places like pea in the pod or motherhood maternity or even target — i had a few button front shirts and a number of t-shirts, then i wore them under suits (either a maternity suit or maternity slacks w/ a regular blazer, unbuttoned) and usually wore normal jewelry. when the rest of the outfit was more formal, i felt like the shirt could be less so. that also made it more comfortable and didnt matter as much when i inevitably spiled something on it.
also, dresses. dresses were my friend.
posey
Check out a pea in the pod. The main complaint people have is that it’s pricey, and it is, but if you are used to paying Ann Taylor/Tahari prices, it’s not too bad. They don’t have much in the way of sleeveless, but if you can stomach sleeves, I bought this top in a few colors and couldn’t be happier: http://www.apeainthepod.com/Product.asp?product_Id=174650011&MasterCategory_Id=MC2
JMDS
Thanks! Maternity dressing is so frustrating. I am finding tons of dresses I like, but no tops. I’ll try our your rec’s.
posey
back up, where are you finding these “tons of dresses that I like”?
I actually think I bought too much maternity clothing. I think I buy in binges, and I just binged big time. No more maternity clothing shopping for me until November, unless I absolutely NEED something (and not including bras/underwear)
JMDS
Loft, target, Nordstrom, Seraphine. I haven’t bought a ton, but they all have good options.
anonfish
Liz Lange t-shirts at Target look nice under a suit. They’re simple, scoop-necked and cheap. And you can also wear them on the weekends. You don’t need fancy shells.
Anon
Liz Lange t-shirts at Target look nice under a suit. They’re simple, scoop-necked and cheap. And you can also wear them on the weekends. You don’t need fancy shells.
SA
I got my one Maternity suit at Kohl’s of all places. It didn’t look as cheap as some as the options.
CHL
I was able to wear a lot of dresses (or black top + black pants or black skirt to create that same kind of line) with a non-maternity blazer on top which got me through a lot of meetings where others were wearing suits. Agreed that you get a pass for being pregnant in a lot of situations as long as you look like you’re trying. I had a couple Isabella Oliver jersey tops that looked fine under blazers (it’s very clear you’re not wearing a casual t-shirt). Mine for Nine also carries a lot of maternity work clothes to rent if you want to try a couple styles or brands to see how you like them.
Anon
Have you checked out Japanese Weekend? I got a really cute work top at Japanese Weekend that isn’t jersey (it’s not silk, but it’s got a more work-appropriate finish if that makes sense). Sadly, it’s out of stock now. I’ve also bought lots of t-shirt tops from Target’s Liz Lange collection – I wear the t-shirts with a big statement necklace or scarf, black pants and a black non-maternity jacket and let it pass for a suit (but I was always a big believer in dressy t-shirts under suits).
Also, I haven’t looked for tops, but Asos had the most amazing maternity dress selection (I needed a maternity dress for a formal event, because that’s a lot of fun at 7 months preggo). I haven’t tried on the dresses, but they actually seem to be made of real material that a non-pregnant person would be willing to buy (i.e., not cheap polyester and jersey). You might check their maternity section for tops.
V
If you can still throw your old suit jackets on over top of them, I wouldn’t sweat the tops too much. Or I’d hit any maternity consignment store / Junior-League type thrift store in your town or e-bay for something in a woven popover style. If I looked, my Motherhood store / Liz Lange @ Target / consignment tops in heavy rotation got me through and worked under jackets (non-maternity) with pants and my one or two black maternity pencil skirts. I also wore a lot of dresses.
Paris Trip!
I’m going to Paris for a week this spring and am overwhelmed by the amount of research I’ve been doing online! Does anyone have any favorite hotels/restaurants/can’t miss experiences they’d recommend? It’s my first time going and I’m going with my mom and active grandma. We like wandering new cities, are huge foodies, like shopping and museums. Looking forward to this trip is going to get me through a long winter!
Anne Shirley
Have you gotten off-line at all? I find books can be less overwhelming. I personally adore Rick Steves for Paris (and as my fantasy travel partner- totes hiring him to be my perma guide when my ship comes in) but any bookstore probably has a decent selection.
ss
Agree that getting a good guide book is a better way of anchoring your trip-planning than getting bombarded by dubious advice on the net.
Also think about your priorities – is it sight-seeing (historical, artistic, the must-do’s ?), shopping (major designers, indies, classics, vintage ?) or food (classic dishes, hip new resto’s, markets, seeking out favourite pastries, sweets etc) ? Then plan your hotel and meals around them, rather than exhaust yourselves pursuing other folks’ “can’t miss experiences”.
Fwiw, I like Petit Moulin in the 3rd for when it’s just my husband and I, and Des Deux Iles on Ile St Louis when with older family members. The former is in a more better neighborhood for cool stores and news resto’s, the latter allows you to walk out onto a very village-y street and then be surrounded by some of Paris’ most iconic sights. In your case, I’d also think about a rental to accommodate your larger family group and to give everyone an option to eat in at breakfast/ after long days. But have a think first about whether you can do without hotel services like a concierge, bag storage etc.
Post back if you want resto recommendations but best if you say what style of food you enjoy.
Avodah
Can’t say I self identify as a “foodie”, but I recommend L’As du Falafel.
Cb
Musee D’Orsay, Rodin Museum, Picasso Museum with the outdoor sculpture gallery.
Veronique
+1. Plus tea (and tea infused food and desserts) at Mariage Freres and creeps on the street (strawberry Nutella was my favorite combination).
PHX
I’m not snarking, but I just wanted to say that I enjoyed the typo of “creeps on the street”…. :)
a.k.
Check out David Lebovitz’s blog, and download his Paris pastry app.
zora
David Lebovitz has a guide book to Paris, too. My sister & BIL got it for their trip to Paris and said it was the best guide they had. They are also huge foodies! ;o)
Avodah
Don’t forget to tell everyone what a foodie you are.
Anon
You are obnoxious
Anon
How exactly would you phrase it?
Hel-lo
“I appreciate good food.”
Kat G
Haven’t been since 2008, but the Best Meal I Ever Had was at Les Papilles. http://www.lespapillesparis.fr/EN_index.html. Warning, though: they make one dish each day and that’s what they serve — your only choice is their extensive wine collection (by the bottle, mais oui).
Anon
If you post an anon email, I will mail you my awesome set of pdf clippings of Paris things to do, plus my Word doc of recs.
KinCA
I just went to Paris for the first time and absolutely adored it. There is so much to do! That said, we spent about 6 days/5 nights in the city & STILL didn’t see everything we wanted to, so just accept that there’s some stuff you’re going to miss and have to save for a second trip.
In terms of books, Rick Steve’s guide and a book called Paris Top 10 were really helpful in planning my trip. I also relied heavily on TripAdvisor reviews.
Our favorite parts of the trip? A Seine River cruise – it’s a great way to see the city from a unique perspective in a relatively short period of time. Sainte Chappelle’s stained glass windows are amazing; do not miss them. Musee d’Orsay is absolutely beautiful as well.
In terms of food, dinners at La Scene and Le Diane were the culinary highlights of our trip there. Both were extremely pricey but so memorable and delicious. Le Petit Zinc is a great cafe on a hidden little side street that’s great for people-watching and soaking in the Paris atmosphere (there are cafes EVERYWHERE, the “cafe culture” there is one of the things I love most about Paris). Il Piccollo Rufigio is a hidden little Italian place down the hill from Sacre Couer that’s perfect for a cozy, low-key dinner.
Orangerie
I lived in Paris for a while and have a huge list of recs I can share – my email is orangerie09 (zero before the 9) at gmail.
Godzilla
“The Brontosaurus was gone at last, but Lamanna suggests the name stuck in part because it was given at a time when the Bone Wars fueled intense public interest in the discovery of new dinosaurs. And, he says, it’s just a better name.
“Brontosaurus means ‘thunder lizard,'” he says. “It’s a big, evocative name, whereas Apatosaurus means ‘deceptive lizard.’ It’s quite a bit more boring.””
http://www.npr.org/2012/12/09/166665795/forget-extinct-the-brontosaurus-never-even-existed
What.
AMB
Thunder lizard does sound better. But I feel your pain, with the loss of Pluto, the changing weights of the atomic elements…. my inner childhood nerd doesn’t know what to do with itself.
Godzilla
WAIT, ATOMIC WEIGHTS ARE CHANGING, TOO???????????????????? WHAT’S HAPPENING???????????????????
Godzilla
IS NOTHING SACRED ANYMORE?????????
http://www.popsci.com/article/science/chemistrys-biggest-loser-official-atomic-weights-change-19-elements
(I need to renew my popsci and popmech subscriptions)
Mpls
You know – this just doesn’t bother me that much, for some reason. Refining numbers based on better calculations and measuring makes sense to me.
Now maps, on the other hand. Greenland is NOT the size of Africa.
chilledcoyote
Agreed, it’s ruining my ability to crush other people at trivia.
p.s. didn’t mean to report…
Away Game
But I loved the brontosaurus! Apatosaurus just doesn’t do it for me as a name. Nevermind that whole science thing.
Senior Attorney
That’s just plain wrong.
Senior Attorney
Next they’ll be telling us that super-pure crystal meth isn’t really blue…
Hel-lo
Ha! I saw a clip from Colbert Report on Monday, when he had Vince Gilligan, the creator of Breaking Bad. Colbert said, “So is there really blue crystal meth?” Gillagan said, “There is now.”
(Colbert’s monologue was brilliant on Monday – all about the shutdown and Breaking Bad all woven together.)
CKB
Finally, after almost 4 weeks, the toilets on my floor flush again! YAY! No more having to take the elevator (because the stairs are only for emergency & locked from the inside) to another floor to use the restroom! I am ridiculously happy about this. Any little things making you happy this morning?
Blonde Lawyer
That would drive me nuts. I use the bathroom a lot and hate elevators. I would have probably begged for a key so I could take the stairs.
CKB
Yes, it was supremely annoying. I drink a lot of water & need to use the bathroom frequently too. We tried to get the management company to unlock our door & the door to the floor below us so we didn’t have to use the elevator but they wouldn’t. I’d try to plan to be on other floors for meetings or whatever when I thought I’d need the facilities. And then make sure I leave the floor at lunch so I could find a working toilet. Add to that the slowness of the elevators sometimes, I could be out of my office 10 minutes or more just to use the bathroom! I had no idea how much a flushing toilet would put me in a good mood.
Cb
The guest house I’m spending the next 5 weeks at serves nutella with breakfast. No sign of fruit or yoghurt or anything moderately healthy but nutella all the time!
Godzilla
I’m wearing green today (as opposed to just my skin being green). I like green.
Senior Attorney
It’s actually a little fall-like today. Forecast is for the 90s again by Friday, but it’s nice to have a little taste of some cooler weather.
NashJD
Anyone here used a treadmill desk? I just made one that I’m currently using for when I work at home (haven’t had the guts to bring it into the office yet), and I love it except my upper back is killing me after 45 minutes of walking/working. On the other hand, I’m surprisingly productive and find there’s very little I cannot do while walking (albeit at a slow pace). Would love to see if others have used.
Cb
Are you using it loads? Maybe go for 45 and then work slowly up? Is it possible that you’re walking with your hips pushed forward or your head tilted at an odd angle and you’re putting strain on your back?
Very envious of your treadmill desk, I wish I had the space for one.
Godzilla
Your upper back? That could suggest that something is off with how your monitor and/or keyboard are aligned. If it was your lower back, that could suggest something off with your shoes. Are you hunched over? Maintaining proper posture is so important.
Wildkitten
+1 This happens to me when I lean forward (like to read) in a regular treadmill. So be mindful of your posture and also look up exercises to work your back so you can hold it up straight. Holding your head up straight for a long long time is harder than you’d think, at least for me.
NashJD
I’m almost certain my posture is bad, so I wil try to watch that going forward. Last night I did some cat/cow yoga exercises afterwards and felt great relief. And yes, I’m trying to take it easy and not overdo it, but I probably have pushed myself too far, too fast.
MA med mal lawyer
Unfortunately urgent question for you smart ladies– does anyone have a recommendation for a medical malpractice lawyer in or near Boston? Close friend needs at least a quick consultation as soon as possible. Any leads greatly appreciated.
Blonde Lawyer
Email me at projectmundaneart@gmail.com. I don’t want to out myself completely on here but my firm does med-mal in New England, including Mass. I would probably be the one screening the case so after you email me I will give you my real contact info.
OP
Emailed! Thank you.
TCFKAG
I know someone who is quite good – if you or you want to e-mail me at tcfkag@gmail.com I can give you the details.
LilyB
thoughts on these boots? (link to follow). has anyone bought non-flipflop shoes from Reef and had success?
also, I love the look of boots (like the ones mentioned above) with socks that stick out on top, but i have no idea where to buy those kinds of socks! any ideas?
LilyB
http://vip.zappos.com/reef-reef-high-desert-grey
Anonymous
You can buy great boot socks at Free People. Urban Outfitters probably has them, too. Otherwise, I’m sure Amazon has a ton.
Bonnie
No personal experience but I really like those boots. Hue makes those tall socks in many colors at patterns and they’re available at Macy’s and Nordstroms.
LilyB
thanks ladies!
Thank you letters
When sending thank you notes for an internal position to people you see everyday, do you address them by their first names or do ou still write Mr./Ms.? Would you use Mrs. if you know they changed their last names?
LilyB
I would use their first names if that’s how you address them normally. And you should never use “Mrs.” in a professional environment unless specifically asked to do so by that person.
Veronique
+1. I also use first names in external thank you notes if the recipient has indicated that they’d prefer me to address them by their first name.
Silver
I would use whatever salutation you normally use to greet them in a non-interview setting and I would def not use an old last name if I knew that the last name had been changed. I don’t think you need to worry about being formal if you already on a first name basis and the fact that you are on a first name basis is probably good in that it shows familiarity and that you already fit in.
Wildkitten
First name. “Mrs.” has no place in the workplace. I might write their full name on the outside of the envelope, but would use the first name on the actual note.
Brant
First names, for sure. If these are folks you see everyday.
Hiking boots?
Despite doing plenty of day hikes in my lifetime, I don’t own a pair of hiking boots (I have always just gotten by with running sneakers). In a few weeks I’m headed off on a vacation that will involve lots of hiking and I don’t think my running shoes will cut it. I’m willing to spend a decent amount for a pair that will last a long time, but I don’t know where to start. Brands? Types? Things to consider when evaluating? Should I get high boots (with ankle support) or is that not necessary? I’m a 6.5/7 so finding sizes shouldn’t be a problem. Help! TIA. :)
Susie
I have an old Coleman pair (all leather but padded, goes just above the ankle) that I’ve had forever. They are not as sleek and lightweight as the newest ones but they work for me. For short hikes I usually wear running shoes myself, but for backpacking or long hikes (like half dome) I wear the boots.
However if I was starting over now, I would start with Merrill. If you have REI or Footwear Etc I’ve seen good boots at both, shopping with friends. High tops are good not only to support your ankle, but also if you are doing a lot of hills when walking downhill your feet won’t slide into the front of the shoe.
Anon in NYC
Do you have an REI near you? I bought a pair of hiking boots through them (I don’t remember the brand), and they were really helpful in terms of fit. Plus it was very helpful to try different styles on. If you do decide to get boots with ankle support, make sure you buy higher socks that cover where the boot hits (I’m partial to Smart Wool, although expensive) because the rubbing could irritate your ankle at first.
Hel-lo
I have a pair of Merrills that I bought on sale at REI a few years ago. Second all the advice that they need to be broken in.
IMMJ
I like ankle support and find that it helps to stabilize my feet in slippery conditions. I second the recommendation for REI, or any other store that carries several brands. Be sure they have a ramp so that you can see how they feel walking up and downhill.
Godzilla
I have some Timberland brand hiking boots. So much better than hiking in sneakers or steel toed boots (I know, silly me). I’m not seeing the style I have but here’s a link for reference http://shop.timberland.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=12153303
anonymama
Don’t bring new hiking boots if you haven’t had time to break them in (or at least wear them on a solid hike to make sure they won’t kill you when you wear them all day).
I’ve personally always preferred lighter-weight hiking shoes that are somewhere between running shoes and hard-core hiking boots. I’m not a fan of the high boots, which are so heavy, hot, and more likely to rub uncomfortably. This has been on multi-day backpacking adventures. But a lot of it is what you prefer. If you’ve been fine hiking in running shoes, and not felt like you needed tons more support, I don’t think you’d need high boots.
Bonnie
I prefer higher hiking boots that provide ankle support made from a breathable, light material. Sierratradingpost dot com is my usual go to place for outdoor gear. Make sure to read the reviews on fit. I agree that you should break them in before going on the trip even if it’s just by walking around your neighborhood.
Anonymous
I prefer low profile hiking boots/sneakers. I have a waterproof pair from new balance that I like better than my above the ankle LL Bean ones. You need to do AT LEAST 2 hikes in them before going on your trip (if it’s the above the ankle ones I would do a lot more). I actually had swelling on my ankles/calves when I went to Alaska with improperly broken in hiking boots. Go to REI and explain your needs, or you can order a pair from LL bean (if you want higher ones I recommend the leather ones they have).
http://www.newbalance.com/New-Balance-1569/WW1569,default,pd.html?dwvar_WW1569_color=Brown&start=6&cgid=204000
j
I wear the lightest shoes possible and prefer to skip boots altogether. My favorites are Keen A86 trail runners. They’re very light, have great traction, and are waterproof. They’re also really inexpensive for shoes of their caliber. The lightness of the shoe means that you may have to modify your running style a bit (if you’re running in the shoes), but there’s no break-in period like there is with traditional boots.
Nonny
I really hate formal performance reviews. Found out late yesterday afternoon that I am going to have one tomorrow (it’s been a long time coming – I’ve been at this job for just over a year and while I had an informal review a couple of months ago, I’ve had nothing formal at all) and now I am totally freaking out about it. I have no reason to believe this one will be particularly bad, I just automatically assume that every review is going to be the one at which I’m fired. It’s like this every time. I know I just need to breathe and relax a bit, but any other tips from those of you who automatically freak out before every review?
Anon for This
Just be prepared to tell your story and have specific examples to back up how great you are (typically Managers are only able to remember the last 3 months…).
On a related note – does anyone LIKE the way their company does performance management? I oversee this at my company and the general consensus out there is that everyone hates the performance review, but very few people have come up with a better way!
Brant
My company does a terrible job…they are super long forms, they tell you way too late so none of the managers have time to put much thought into them.
Which actually works out great for me, because I keep neurotic records of my achievements and plug them in. I always get great reviews, and I think this is part of the reason why.
It’s a PITA for my direct reports though…
Hel-lo
Just another lesson in how important it is to keep a “brag file” for yourself, including a list of accomplishments! (Your direct reports should be doing this too.)
Anon
I called in sick yesterday. My boss asked me if I was feeling better today. I said yes I am. He then looked at me like he expected a description of the sickness and said….so a cold? (I actually had a nasty urinary tract infection – went to the doctor and got antibiotics but was just uncomfortable and didn’t feel like sitting at my desk all day). I am not a super private person so I said actually, no, I had a urinary tract infection but I’m good now. He turned bright red, looked completely grossed out and said you could of left that out. I said – hey, you asked, completely straight faced. Now I’m kind of embarrassed and wish I would’ve just said – I’ll spare you the woman details, but yes I’m feeling much better. Should I really worry about this? If you ask what someone’s ailment is you should expect that you might not want to hear the answer is my feeling.
Morgan
Agree that this was TMI, but he asked for it! Hopefully he learned not to ask the equivalent of “what was wrong with you”? He should be embarrassed. And you shouldn’t worry.
(In the future, that question could be met with, “Would you like me to describe my medical issue?”)
Eleanor
I don’t think you should worry. Hopefully this teaches him not to ask about people’s medical problems that are none of his business.
Brant
You know, I think that was the perfect response. Next time he’s wondering, he’ll remember that one time he got TMI.
NYC
Oh man, I just spewed ice cubes all over my keyboard upon reading this. Sort of a mix of laughing/shared shame for you. That is terrible! But you know, I think your answer was FINE and you should definitely not worry about it (I think it is awesomely matter of fact, actually). He totally asked for it. And if you had some more general “woman problem” answer, he would have assumed you got your period and that you are going to call in sick once a month. I think his response was just acknowledging that he shouldn’t have friggin asked in the first place.
Anonymous
Ditto that. He’ll get over it.
Anonymous
I think your response was great actually and probably shuts down any future questions.
hoola hoopa
You did nothing wrong by answering his question with a brief and accurate response, and hopefully he learned a valuable lesson! If you don’t want the answer, don’t ask the question!