ByElizabeth Hours Updated
Comments 242 Comments

Thursday’s Workwear Report: Mixed Media Mock-Neck Blouse

A woman wearing a pink top and black pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This mock-neck blouse from Ann Taylor looks like the sort of thing that would get a lot of mileage all year round.

The length allows it to be tucked nicely into a skirt or pair of trousers or left untucked with a pair of skinny pants and a long cardigan, and the bright, cheery color would go nicely with a wide range of neutrals.

(Side note: Ann Taylor refers to this color as “razzle dazzle,” which I love.)

The blouse is on sale for $39.88 (originally $69.50) at Ann Taylor and comes in sizes XXS-XXL.

Update: Unfortunately, this style has now sold out, but there are several similar mock-neck options at Ann Taylor for around the same price.

Sales of note for 12.2.24 (Happy Cyber Monday!! See our full sale listing here!)

242 Comments

  1. For all you stomach sleepers – what do you do with your kneecaps?? Due to an injury, I’m to try to sleep on my stomach for a couple weeks. All I can focus on is my kneecaps. (Everyone who hates stomach sleeping- please ignore! I’m not trying to turn into one long term. This is doc advice and now I’m genuinely curious if I’m missing a pillow trick or something).

    1. Shameless stomach sleeper here, I kind of frog my legs so the sides of my knees are on the mattress, not the kneecaps?

    3. For me when I try to sleep on my stomach I feel like my chest gets in the way so I put a small pillow under me – maybe that would work for knee caps.

    4. I have like a 15 degree elevation under my left side, so while my stomach is on my stomach, my left knee is pointing out and I’m not on my right kneecap. Left elbow is also poking out and head is going left. A friend calls this the swastika and it is a bad but apt visual. I think it has because my head and neck are just tighter and don’t bend as easily as a baby. Babies can be flat on their stomach with just their head rotated to breathe.

    5. I’m a stomach sleeper and I’ve truly never thought of this before. I have chubby legs so maybe that’s the answer haha. I’m not flat on my stomach when I sleep though, my lower body is sort of twisted so I’m partially on my side?

      1. Right? I’m a lifelong stomach sleeper and then I fear I’m going to be concentrating on my knee caps. I do the frog leg thing of one straight and one turned. I have a pillow top mattress and if I’ve done a lot of walking on my legs are other ways, tired, just having them be straight out feels amazing.

    6. Okay this made me laugh because I’ve never thought about it before, and then I got down on the floor to see what I do with my kneecaps. Unfortunately no tricks from me, they just face down. I’m a side and stomach sleeper (I basically slowly twirl throughout the night depending on how restless I am) and I have never thought about my kneecaps. In yoga classes when laying supine on the mat it doesn’t bother me either, although I will say that my hip bones have bothered me at times, so I feel your pain at being fixated on one part that touches the surface more than another part. It’s never bothered me on a mattress though, that I can recall.

    7. I’m a stomach sleeper and have never been bothered by my kneecaps. I scoot down in the bed so that where my feet bend is at the end of the mattress (the mattress edge and my feet effectively are spooning). Sometimes I sleep the way someone else described with one bent knee and bent arm. Never had knee cap awareness but will definitely be thinking about it tonight hahah

        1. As long as your feet are under the covers they are safe from the monsters.

          1. This must be what my monster cat believes when he goes all out pouncing them through the quilt…

    8. The kneecap comment is confusing to me, nevertheless it sounds like you might benefit from putting a small round pillow under your ankles. That’s what they do when you get a massage and need to be flat on your stomach. I’m sure it is mostly so that you are not stretching your ankles funny but it would probably also work to get your knees slightly elevated.

    9. I’m a sometimes stomach sleeper and what gets me is that my arms/elbows often hurt if I sleep like that all night. I kinda bend my arms, placing my hands under my pillow/face. I should add that I’m 47, so waking up aching isn’t a daily issue but also not crazy pants like it would have been 20 years ago… (Joys of the middle aged)

    10. I don’t think about my kneecaps when I sleep on my stomach. When my knees hurt that’s hard to do and I end up not sleeping on my stomach then.

  2. So I peeked at the DM today and I get what all the posting was about yesterday re the pending Jonas brother divorce. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a Jonas bro song and don’t follow younger celebrities at all. Still, I suspect that the Jonas PR machine is in overdrive and it is a bad look. People can get divorced quietly and with dignity. There is nothing to gain by going in so hot on this.

    2. I just peaked too because I haven’t been interested in the people enough to pay any attention. (side note I’m not above celebrity stories at all, these two just weren’t on my radar at all). Totally agree with this recap. It’s like the celebrity version of the in-real-life person who never stops talking about their divorce and vilifies every little thing the ex is doing, even when they’re not really that crazy.

    3. The only thing I can say is that I think I know who they are, but could never pick them out of a lineup…lol
      I’m far too old for boy bands, following celebrities or celebrity gossip of any kind, so I didn’t even know they were married, let alone that they were getting divorced!

    4. I’m an old (40s!) and don’t know or care about the Jonas Brothers at all, but as a GOT fan, I remember thinking it was really strange that Sophie Turner got married and had kids so young, so their marriage was on my weirdness radar for that reason. Given the age gap and all the shady PR, I’m now very suspicious about this guy I don’t know a thing about.

      2. I didn’t watch GOT, but agree that she got married and had children young. Regardless of the rumors she wants to party, people change so much in your 20’s.

        1. I work FT. So does my husband. I had 2 kids rapidly after getting married. If I went out solo, on trips, for Homecomings, at batchelotette parties and partied, I definitely earned that right as much as he or anyone else did. If he started in on this nonsense I’d be livid. You never know what goes on in a marriage, but 36 hours of constant DM articles is enough of a clue for me.

        2. Partying claim seems so weak when it’s like pics of her at one work party. Isn’t a tv show wrap party obligatory like an office Christmas party?

          1. Exactly. It’s a bit like dancing at a wedding and having some drinks vs every Sunday-Saturday nights and day drinking on top of it. I’m sure he drinks nothing stronger than black coffee and goes straight to bed while he’s touring AND minding the kids.

      3. Same in my 40s and GOT fan. I liked her in that show. I was surprised when they got married so young and had two kids already. Some of the chatter on Reddit is that he cheated and that’s why the all the PR on his side.

    5. This one, and the Beckham-Peltz wedding lawsuit (which settled! I’m disappointed, I was looking forward to more accusations back and forth) I feel like are both examples where people are just shooting themselves in the foot by doing this so publicly. All it’s doing is making YOU look bad.

      1. 💯 agree with the disappointment on the lawsuit settlement. So much potential for good gossip that hurt no one except self obsessed millionaire/billionaires.

      2. I had missed that about the Beckham-Peltz wedding lawsuit (like it was the one where the billionaire dad is suing the second or third wedding planners and we learned that Nicola cannot use excel?). That had been a good read and if there is anything on the settlement you can link to, it will be my delicious lunchtime reading.

        1. +1 – please, for the sake of all of us, share any good summaries. Similarly, I would love a judgy summary of the Joe Jonas situation.

  3. I need to get a good understanding of how hospitals (and maybe physician practices too) work, from a business management standpoint – operations, management, finances, that sort of thing. Any suggestions for resources? Books, webinars, classes, websites, podcasts, etc., I’m open to whatever.

    TIA!

    2. The answer varies quite a bit between ASCs, community hospitals, academic hospitals, practices etc. If you’re truly open to anything, recommend setting up expert calls with GLG or other expert networks. They’ll have high level executives from leading health systems available that you can speak with and ask super nuanced questions. An hour will set you back $1-1.5k though and is really better suited once you narrow down exactly what you want to understand!

      1. Wow. Considering my retirement gig should literally be this as I’ve worked on the government reg/reimbursement side for my career.

        1. I get a ton of inquiries from all of these expert network groups, and we have used GLG. I’ve actually been very impressed with them. I was a little concerned when I heard what they were willing to pay for my expertise :-)

    3. Why do you need this? IME They’re all extremely different depending on where you live and what kind of practice it is.

      1. I’m an attorney for a health system. I obviously have a lot of shallow knowledge, but I have the opportunity to develop my career in a way that will shift more into the business side, and I feel I could have a much better overall understanding of how things really operate.

        Like, a big book on how hospitals operate, or maybe there’s a class on hospital administration or something, I think would be helpful.

        1. Maybe the Radio Advisory podcast to get updates on the latest news and trends impacting health care? It probably has some back episodes that would give you an overview, too.

        2. I posted and am on mod but the HFMA is a good resource- it’s an org for healthcare finance execs

        3. I’m going to recommend a book by the senior leadership of the health system I work for. Proud but Never Satisfied. It’s about what an organization needs to do to survive and thrive when challenged. They took a state hospital on the verge of closure and transformed it into a nationally recognized organization that is pushing healthcare into the future.

          I have worked in the industry for a long time, and I have always said that we were changing our corner of the world. I now work for an organization that really is changing the world.

    4. Healthcare administrator here (30+ years) who has also been teaching healthcare admin online for many years- Depending on how much time and money you want to spend, a an executive education course online would be a good choice. They are pricey though. Yale has a great one- 8 weeks online. I’m sure there are others that are less expensive. IMHO, popular press books on healthcare management tend to cover limited scope and are of limited value. A general textbook would be a more comprehensive option- use ‘healthcare administration’ when you search since that’s the term that is used more commonly in the field.

      1. Can I ask what you do?

        Are you an administrator that transitioned to Healthcare?
        Or a healthcare worker (eg. doctor/nurse) who transitioned to administrator?

        1. I’m neither one- I am not a clinical person (MD, RN, etc)- I entered this field with an MBA in healthcare admin in my 20s. I’ve worked in a teaching hospital, medical practice, managed care company and now am working at an independent practice association (IPA). I got a PhD in my 40s, then started doing online teaching in addition to the day job (yes, I know that’s a lot). Happy to chat with you offline if you like.

    5. I second HFMA. For ambulatory practices, I would suggest MGMA. I am an executive at an MSO and work with multiple hospital systems and independent practices.

  4. I just need a quick pity-party! I started a new job last month. On Thursday I left work early because I felt “off”, and had chills and fever and coughing that night and the next two days. By Monday was in urgent care where I tested negative for everything. Yesterday went back to the doc and tested positive for the flu. And you guys – I’ve never had the flu before and it is HORRIBLE. I’ve lost five pounds in a week and I’m already borderline underweight. Everything hurts. I miss hugging my kids. I’m under strict orders to rest for at least five days while I take Tamiflu, and I intend to do it, but the doctor warning me it could linger beyond that almost broke me. Also, needing coworkers to cover for me so early into the new job is not how I wanted to start this adventure. Oh and I’m writing this because I’m also delaying taking my Tamiflu as it made me projectile vomit when I took it yesterday….
    Get your flu shots, y’all. Flu season is here already.

    1. Ugh, I’m so sorry. I just got over COVID and the isolation was one of the worst parts. If it makes you feel any better, if you’re new in role they were likely having to make do without you for at least a few weeks while they were waiting for position to be filled, so they can manage for another week or so! Hugs and hope you’re on the mend soon.

    2. The flu is no joke. I got two different strains of it one year in college and have gotten the vaccine every year since then. My friend who is a pharmacist says they’ve been seeing a lot of flu very early this year.

    3. Sorry to hear you’re sick! My daughter had the same reaction to Tamiflu and swears she will never take it again. The flu by itself wasn’t nearly as bad as flu+reaction.

    5. I had a bad flu like this in early 2020 (pretty sure it wasn’t COVID, had a positive test for flu) and yes, it wipes you out. I don’t think I felt fully functional for probably close to a month (by that I mean, I could work a full day within a couple of weeks, but didn’t go out after work, didn’t go to the gym or whatever).

      But! I did recover fully. Rest all you can, try not to worry too much about how you feel. Just accept being in the slow lane for a while, and soon enough, you’ll realize that you feel normal again.

      I hope that your new job is being understanding about your illness.

      1. Yeah, last time I had the flu it was more like a month until I was even close to normal, and I still had a cough and sore ribs for a few weeks beyond that. The flu is no joke! Hope you feel better soon and thanks for the reminder to our flu shots sooner rather than later!

    6. This is why I get annoyed when people mislabel garden variety colds as the flu. The flu is horrible! I felt like I’d been hit by a truck for a full week. It’s nothing like a regular cold.

      1. It varies. I had an awful experience with swine flu in 2009, but since then I’ve had flu twice that I know of, confirmed by positive test, and both times it was cold like symptoms. (To be fair I got the vaccine so that may have made symptoms milder.)

      2. Me too! Those same people claim the flu shot doesn’t work because they “got the flu anyway.” No you didn’t!
        OP I hope you feel better soon!

    7. I’m so sorry. The sickest I have ever been was with influenza. I ended up with pneumonia. That was swine flu and I couldn’t get a shot that year due to scarcity.

      I am sorry it’s hitting so early! Thanks for the reminder to go get my shot.

    8. If it is any consolation, this early in your new job they are not likely to be so dependent on your contributions that making do in your absence is a problem. Hope you are feeling better soon!

    9. I was prescribed Tamiflu a few years ago, and the Tamiflu made me feel so terrible I decided I’d prefer the flu. I threw out the Tamiflu, despite paying over $200 for it. The next flu season, I asked my doctor for an alternative and she prescribed Xofluza. That one worked really well for me, and I felt better in only a few days.

    10. Ask your doctor to give Zofran with the Tamiflu!!
      Really helped me. You take it an hour before the Tamiflu dose.

  5. I’m notoriously anti phone and really only talk to my husband and my former phd supervisor, who calls me just to torture me. But I called my pal / coauthor after leaving a conference yesterday to find out where they ended up for drinks and as I hung up I said “I’m 5 minutes away, love you bye…” Luckily the group was 2 drinks in by the time I got there and found it hilarious…

    This is why I don’t talk on the phone!

    1. If it is of any consolation to you, I am also very awkward in those kind of formulaic social conversations – even in person. The number of times I have said “You too!” to a server saying “Enjoy your meal!” when they brought out the food… It’s become a source of mild amusement for my husband.

      And I swear I communicate with executives daily, have been praised for and take great pride in my sophisticated and succinct professional communication style.

      1. Oh I do that with waiters too. I think that’s common.

        I’ve also done this a couple times.
        Me: Hi, how are you doing?
        Boss: Good, how are you?
        Me: Good! How are you?
        Boss: ….

        I’m not used to starting the “how are you” convo so just say “good, how are you?” on autopilot.

      2. For me, it’s “enjoy your flight!” from the gate agent and I always say “you too!” Doh!

    2. I did this once when I was a younger lawyer. I was talking to a partner on the phone at the same time I saw my mom calling me. I’m sure my brain switched to signing off as I did with my mom (“love you, bye”) without recognizing I was talking to a partner. So I said “love you, bye” as I hung up with him. I immediately called the partner back and we laughed about it.

    3. Definitely funny.

      But as someone who lives in a city with none of my close friends or family, it is awful for me that no one calls.

      I find texting…. not enough, from friends and family.

      1. Me too. Texting obviously has its uses, but I really miss talking on the phone with my friends that live far away. You can spend an annoying amount of time chatting over text without actually being able to catch up on much with people you haven’t seen in a long time and I find it so frustrating for that purpose that I find myself not even wanting to bother and friendships that I had kept up for a long time over the phone and email are now fading away.

  6. Me too. Texting obviously has its uses, but I really miss talking on the phone with my friends that live far away. You can spend an annoying amount of time chatting over text without actually being able to catch up on much with people you haven’t seen in a long time and I find it so frustrating for that purpose that I find myself not even wanting to bother and friendships that I had kept up for a long time over the phone and email are now fading away.

  7. If you are in-house and do transactional work, are you allowed to give “due incorporation” and other power + authority type opinions? Just taking a poll. Bonus if you are at all in finance / broker-dealer / bank.

      1. Do you just push them out to make outside counsel do that for you? In that case, are you offering up an officer’s certificate abut various factual items?

    2. I’m in-house M&A and do not give opinions, just officer’s certificates. If we really need an opinion we get outside counsel to do it, but honestly it’s rare because they are expensive and kind of pointless. I don’t work for a bank now but I used to and similarly got opinions from outside counsel only.

      1. I understood it was always pushed to outside counsel so you can use their malpractice insurance.

    3. IANAL but work with them in-house in a finance firm and we would never produce an opinion in-house. If we ever needed to do so (unlikely) it would be farmed to outside counsel, but I cannot think of an instance where we have actually needed to do that in the decade I have been here.

  8. Middle-age sleep problems: how do you deal? Between DH’s noises, my night sweats and needing to move around, and having trouble falling asleep, my sleep quality is suffering and I am tired. I hate to say this, but I get why some couples have separate bedrooms. I love the man, but I do not want to be touched when I’m trying to fall asleep, please do not breathe on me, please mute your group texts so your phone isn’t randomly flashing and buzzing, please stop half-snoring. He falls asleep as soon as his head hits the pillow and it is infuriating. Then again, I slept in the guest room last night and still didn’t sleep soundly, so it’s probably not just a DH thing. Is a sensory deprivation tank too much to ask for?

    2. Keep your room colder and buy a breathable comforter.

      Tell him to mute the phone or keep it elsewhere. Ask him to not touch you when you are trying to sleep. For the half snoring, get ear plugs. Try a low dose of melatonin.

      1. I second all these recommendations. My partner snores so I have to have earplugs. I used to take 5 mg of melatonin but I found switching to 1 mg was actually more effective. I also find a difference in my quality of sleep if I spend a few minutes doing stretches or gentle yoga before bed.

    3. I switched to my own bed and room for sleeping, and you would need to drag me back to sharing a bed for sleep purposes. I am better rested, happier, and I like my husband so much better when he has not kept me up half the night. We hang out in “our” room until we are approaching sleep, and then I walk across the hall to “my” tiny sleeping room. I also like to sleep in occasionally on the weekends, and this helps with that since my husband is out of bed at the crack of dawn.

    4. Blah, same. Upgrading to a King bed really, really helped — at least we no longer inadvertently bump into each other in the middle of the night. The phone thing would drive me nuts, but at least is very fixable on his end. But also, when we have nights when we both need/want really, really good sleep – we do sleep in separate bedrooms, and it’s been fine.

      1. Either all of this or separate rooms for sleeping. Sleeping is a solitary activity, and I do not understand why we think that happily married couples must sleep together – and not sleeping together implies some kind of problem in the marriage. It does not. DH and I started sleeping separately during COVID and we both sleep so much better! Even on vacation we have been known to get a room with two queens. We are super happy together, but we are not co-sleepers.

          1. I don’t even want him in the same room. He sounds like he is being strangled multiple times a night. And the flopping around! Will NOT go for a CPAP consult. Ugh.

    6. Yep, king size bed, ear plugs. Also black out curtains and keeping the room cold.

      Your husband should mute all but absolutely essential texts, it’s not fair to have that going off all night. This is slightly strange, but we also put a weighted blanket between us, folded into a long narrow strip – it helps keep blanket wars under control.

      If it makes you feel better, my parents mostly slept in separate rooms once all is kids were out of the house (so maybe in their 50s) and they will be married 58 years next month and are quite happy together. Not sleeping in the same bed or room says very little about your relationship. Humans need sleep!

    7. Argh. Can totally relate. DH does his best to wait until after I fall asleep to go to sleep himself. Bc he snores like a chainsaw. Do you also have the problem I do where 90% of the time after having more than 1 alcoholic beverage you wake up at 1am and are just up for next 3 hrs? Fricking peri.

      Having a guest bedroom is a marriage saver.

      1. This. I go to bed about an hour before my husband. He’s a nightowl, so he prefers to stay up later anyway, but I’m very, very out when he comes to bed.

    8. This might be an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think it’s fair for snorers who sleep with a partner to not address the snoring. He should talk to a doctor and try interventions for it (in addition to putting his phone on do not disturb).

      1. I agree completely. It is only “unpopular” for the (usually) guys, who tend to not like going to the doctor and who clearly don’t care enough about their partners.

    9. Make him silence his phone and keep it face down or in a drawer. Get a memory foam mattress topper to minimize the impact of his movement. Separate blankets so he’s not yanking on your covers. A fan will provide white noise and cool you off. Limit your fluid intake a couple hours before bed so your bladder doesn’t wake you. But you still might need separate rooms.

    11. CBD helps me sleep through the night. I take one gummy before bed. I get mine from CBD MD. And I fully support sleeping in another bedroom if needed.

    12. DH and I sleep in separate rooms (he snores horribly and I fidget). When we go on vacation and have to share a room, I am usually sleep deprived and ready to kill him by day 3. Sleep is important.

    13. We hit our 40s and both developed sleep problems. Even in separate beds we have issues, but trying to sleep in the same bed with each of us awake for half the night (but not the same half) would be a complete disaster, so separate rooms are definitely saving our marriage! I’ve always been a light sleeper, but now I have a lot more trouble falling back asleep when I wake up at 2 am and I really don’t need anyone else’s restless sleep waking me up when I finally manage to fall back asleep.

    14. OMG I am right there with you. The snoring! He also sometimes forgets to put his phone on do not disturb. Right now I am so tired with the start of school and getting up early with the kids, I don’t need the 3 am wakeups! Rrgh.

    15. Ditto the others on a king size bed, window AC unit (even though we have central air, the window unit allows us to keep the house warmer and turn just our bedroom into a meat locker at night – doubles as a white noise machine!), earplugs for him, eye mask for me, and one very specific set of sheets that I’ve bought multiples of (oddly, Koolaburra by Ugg flannel sheets – yes, even in summer – they’re lightweight and so comfy cozy).

    16. HRT for me.

      Plastic nose clip for him (link in reply).

      Bedtime routine:
      – get in bed at same time
      – turn phones off/turn volume to zero
      – place phones on floor on carpet (so if they vibrate, we don’t hear it)
      – either read or watch a short & light show together
      – turn off lights and kiss goodnight together
      – we each have our preferred falling asleep position, which we then assume

        1. My partner uses something like this too. They don’t eliminate his snoring but they do significantly decrease the volume.

    17. Agree with talking with doctor about HRT. By far the sleep changes are the worst part of perimenopause and the hot flashes contribute to sleep instability. If you can’t take HRT, ask about very low dose paroxetine or the new medicine Veozah for hot flashes. Those have the best evidence for helping.

      Bigger bed. Check out those Kings that are actually 2 twins “connected” where each can have it’s own controls/sheets etc.. Remember, you should invest in your bed. Think of the hours you spend in it and how critical sleep is for your health and well-being. It should be the most expensive thing in your house.

      Separate comforters so you can have the temperature regulation you need, and you are not bothered as much by husband’s movements.

      Husband must mute phone or keep out of room, or else … divorce obvi. Yeah, I would try earplugs too and/or if you think he sometimes stops breathing and/or could have sleep apnea, he needs a sleep study.

      Hopefully you are already working on good sleep hygiene (easy to find tips online. No caffeine late in the day, night-time routine getting ready for bed. Sunlight/happy light early in the day. Regular sleeping times every night including weekends. Bed only for sleep and sex-y time. Regular exercise (walking is fine!). Some sort of yoga/mindfulness/breathing/anxiety reducing exercises in your life to help bring down your set point and help train your mind how to relax.

    18. I just have my phone set to go on do not disturb automatically every night from 10 pm to 5 am. Phone noises would be absolutely nonnegotiable for me, unless there are professional or caretaking obligations that made them necessary, but even then, I’d expect my partner to do what they could to reduce them (no group chats!).

    19. My husband bought me a thing called a BedJet that blows cold air under my blankets, and it is seriously amazing. It’s ridiculous, but it’s amazing. That, white noise, and a good wind down routine have helped me immensely.

      1. We also have one of those sleep number beds that’s literally two extra long twins side by side so that each of us has independent control. So I don’t feel his movement at all. It also has a “partner snore” button that elevates the head slightly, and I’ve been known to push it while my husband is sleeping.

        Also consider whether he has sleep apnea. My husband’s snoring went away completely when he addressed the sleep apnea. Now, if he falls asleep without his CPAP for some reason, it definitely wakes me up because I’m not used to it.

        1. Oh my goodness – that “partner snore” button. Hilarious and amazing. Thanks for sharing.

          Sleeping with head of bed elevated is actually a treatment for some types of sleep apnea, but you must have a sleep study to ensure it is enough.

    20. Having both of our phones set up with an automated nightly “do not disturb” that silences and has no buzzing or flashing lights is a non negotiable for me. That way there is no forgetting, and all random notifications are covered. If there is an emergency there is a setting to let someone calling repeatedly from the same number to break through.

    21. Haha my husband tried to cuddle with me the other night in the middle of the night, I was already like 105 degrees, I gave him a good shove. I love you, but absolutely not.

      Sorry you’re there. I’m mostly just menopausal now and it has improved. Good sleep hygiene is key! Consistent bedtime, consistent pre-bedtime routine, and no alcohol in the evening – sorry, but it’s true, even one glass of wine will cause me to have the White Wine Wide Awakes in the middle of the night, even if it initially helped me to fall asleep.

    22. We keep our bedroom at 69 degrees (hubs still chuckles like a middle schooler at the thermostat), and the real key, we have a king bed with separate blankets. The great wall of blankets in the middle is great for having your own personal space in bed.

    23. If you have an iphone, you can set up a sleep schedule in Health. I set mine from midnight to 8 am or so. Notifications are automatically silenced during this time. You can also have a wake up alarm but I don’t use that feature.

      If there’s anyone you would want to hear from day or night (for me, that’s my kids and one of my sisters), then set them up as an Emergency Contact, and if they try to call you it will ring through – ask me if it works, my phone rang at 7 this morning because my son could not set up his dorm wifi.

      To set someone as an emergency contact, go to contacts, select their contact record (not edit) and scroll to the bottom. You’ll see Add to Emergency Contacts there.

    24. You have the answer right there in your post. Just sleep in separate bedrooms! Life is too short for bad sleep.

      1. She said she didn’t sleep any better in the guest room. Trying to figure out sleep when you’re in the hot flash stage of life is no joke!!

        1. She spent one night in the guest bed and her list of sleeping complaints is mostly about her husband.

    25. I would give the guest bedroom a few more nights. I never sleep well the first night in a new location.

    26. You: no alcohol, no caffeine after 12noon, HRT, CBD
      Him: phone is silenced, go to sleep dentist for custom mouth guard
      Room: very cool, white noise machine, split king sized adjustable bed

  9. After the Kibbe thread yesterday, I looked up Kibbe for men. I found all the weirdness and outdatedness more hilarious than offensive when it wasn’t directed at women. I wasn’t convinced it all added up even as a typology, but it did make me think “oh, that’s so-and-so’s type” a few times.

  10. Having a terrible time finding a long sleeve sweat shirt, fill zip, in a lighter weight. I don’t need thick and heavy at this time of year, but just something lighter weight while I’m warming up on my walk. Brand ideas?

    1. I don’t think that they exist! I feel like lighweight fleece is how to do it if you want full-zip and lightweight. I feel like you can find heavier full-zip sweatshirts, but it’s still a struggle. It’s what I prefer and I cannot find them, either.

      1. I am literally wearing my American Giant lightweight hoody right now, and it’s exactly what you’re describing.

    5. Does it have to be traditional sweat shirt material (cotton/poly) or are more “performance” fabrics ok? I have gotten some lighter weight “toppers” from Coolibar that I bought just for sun protection, that are ultralight, but also nicely protect me from mosquitos. I wear them for walks, quick errands, gardening etc.. They also have light tops they call sweat shirts too. Lots of colors.

      1. Coolibar is fantastic for this. I wear their long sleeve layers a lot in hot summer, and they don’t add heat. But they are still lovely to add a tiny warmth on a chilly day.

    6. What happened to the days when you could pop into a drugstore and buy an off-brand item like this? It seems like now everything has to be expensive/name-brand.

    8. I have a Jack Wolfskin lightweight jacket that I think would be good. It’s performance fabric though, not 100% cotton.

    9. I second Vuori’s performance hoodie,but Quince also has one that is longer, looser, and a little lighter than the Vuori.I much prefer the fabric from Vuori, but maybe Quince is what you are looking for.

    10. I ordered a bunch off of Amazon to find one for my daughter this summer. Hanes makes a nice lightweight zip up hoodie. I think that was her winner. I searched for “lightweight hoodie” or something.

    11. Uniqlo has these in their SPF clothing line. Lightweight and wicking hoodie. I’m sure the vuori version is also very nice, but the Uniqlo one is very inexpensive if that matters to you. (<$30, IIRC).

  11. I’m sure this has been discussed ad nauseum but any recs for eye creams that actually work for wrinkles around your eyes? Is that what people do Botox for, or is that just for foreheads? I don’t really want to do Botox, but man… Been really feeling my mid 40s age when I smile or see pictures of myself lately.

    1. You mean the little wrinkles in the corners? Under the eyes? Botox is used more for the two vertical lines (“elevens”) between/above the eye brows and forehead horizontal wrinkles. Be very careful with make-up around the eyes that can settle in lines and make them more prominent.

      It’s funny… but I actually love the little smile wrinkles in the eye corners in both men and women. Less of a fan of the elevens/forehead wrinkles on myself, but I really don’t want to do Botox.

      So I use sunscreen religiously, prescription retinol every night. Good mild skin care recommended by my derm and GYN – simple/no-bad additives mild cleansers (cetaphil) twice a day, then Cerave moisturizer while skin still damp twice a day. I use sunscreen SPF 50 in the AM after moisturizer sinks in. I use prescription retinol in PM after moisturizer sinks in / dries.

      Yes, I do buy the occasional eye cream. I try some of the more expensive ones when they show up on sale at Costco But they are just moisturizer and wont reduce wrinkles long term. But they seem to help moisturize/plump them up for the day, and certainly make make-up lie more nicely. Maybe using the retinol very very carefully around the eyes helps slightly.

      But much of wrinkles is genetic and/or due to prior sun damage.

      1. I’m with you on the smile wrinkles. To quote Jimmy Buffett (which, where my Parrothead ‘rettes at? I’m so sad this week), ” wrinkles only go where the smiles have been”

    2. Where around your eyes exactly? I am also mid-40s,and I get botox for my forehead, 11s, and crows feet, but not actually under my eye. From everything I’ve read, the under eye area is a very difficult area to treat. I know some people get filler in their tear trough, but that is risky in and of itself given how tricky fillers can be, which is only magnified by something like the delicate undereye area. I’ve also heard of people using retinoids around the eye which might help. Are you diligent about sunscreen and wearing sunglasses everytime you are outdoors?

      1. Good point – I also wear sunglasses ALWAYS and usually a hat too. That is essential for skin care.

    3. Tretinoin at prescription strength is (I think) the gold standard. Yes botox is typically more for sides of eyes and as you said, forehead, not for under the eye as far as I know. I get my tretinion from my dermatologist but you can buy it online. If you want an over the counter product I think roc retinol is highly rated

      1. Right by the eye like that? Ow! (To be fair, I can’t tolerate it anywhere, so what would I know.)

        1. I’m not 11:59 but I do use tretinoin. I get it under my eyes but not right up to the water line. You start out buffering it with eye cream and build up to regular use in that area.

          I did have a new acquaintance my age keep arguing with me that we are not the same age, I must be 10 years younger, just the other day. I could also tell the difference between us (I am embarrassed to admit.) Tretinoin daily since early 40s and I’m 58 now.

          1. (I should also add that I’m a devoted SPF user too, and highly prefer asian sunscreens)

        3. Apparently you don’t want retinol right by your eyes, because if it gets into your eyes, that can cause a lot of issues

    4. I don’t think this is a Botox thing. A good primer (plumbing, light scattering) can reduce the appearance.

      I’ve noticed that for me, this can come and go to an extent, and I think for me that’s related to hydration and vitamins (again probably just affecting the subjective appearance, but that’s what I care about anyway).

    5. Thanks all. I do all the things mentioned above (sunscreen, prescription retinol etc) just wondering if there is something more targeted I can be doing.
      It’s the crinkles on the outer corners of my eyes, and those crinkles seem to be migrating more and more under eye as well.

      1. There are definitely plumping things that cosmetic derms can do for around-the-eye aesthetics. I don’t know what because I haven’t asked about it, but it’s on the slide show of all their services that plays constantly in the waiting room and exam rooms at my clinical derm’s office.

      3. microneedling under the eye is an option as well but if you are anti needles, then I would pass

      4. Vast improvement with Botox. Specific eye cream rec- Neocutis illuminating firm riche

  12. I’m going to a wedding in India in a couple of weeks. The invite says “Indian formal or western formal” for dress code. Since there are 3 events, I would prefer to wear western formal as to not have to spend hundreds on lehengas I won’t wear again. For those of you who’ve been to Indian weddings, do some people wear western formal? Do you think it would be okay if I do?

    1. If you’re not South Asian-passing, western formals (but on the more conservative side) are totally acceptable. Go for bright colours and bling and avoid all-black and all-white.

        1. I’ve never heard that. The bridesmaids wore red saris at my BFF’s wedding Indian wedding (in the US). I think in some Indian cultures the bride traditionally wears red, but that doesn’t make it off limits for guests.

    2. Yes I went to the wedding in India of college friends and many Americans wore western clothes. Just make sure you do lots of bright colors and don’t look too somber. Plain navy is fine for a wedding in the US but would be odd at an Indian wedding.

      2. Bay Area, size 4, and ditto.
        Your Indian friends will be glad to lend you some (I have lent to non-Indian friends and so have others) if you’d like to try it for one of the occasions. It’s not required but will be appreciated if you do!

    4. Long jewel tone dresses look best and “match” the Indian formal that others will be wearing. Honestly dresses / “gowns” have become pretty popular so I think you’ll be fine.
      It’s generally fine for non-Indians to not be wearing Indian clothes, as long as it matches the formality.

    5. Wear a sari.

      I’m Indian and we adore when others honour our culture. Tons of aunties will help you.

  14. i am not the usual college stress poster, but this is one of those threads, so please feel free to skip… the Q if other moms can tell me where to read up on what colleges look for in terms of math levels / AP classes / etc. just realized my 7th grader isn’t in the highest level math because of a test she took in 5th grade (just advanced, not double advanced) and trying to figure out if/how many doors this will close for her.

    1. It’s crazy that your whole academic career can be impacted by a test you take in 5th grade.
      Anyway, I got as far as precalculus in high school. I was in the “normal” level from 7th through 11th grade, and did well enough in 11th grade to get into precalc honors. I went to college for engineering.
      IMO, its more important that she does well in the class she’s in even if its not the most advanced one offered.

      1. When was this, though? When I was in high school (graduated in 1999), only a small subset of my peers took calculus in high school. Based on conversations with friends who have kids in high school and are shooting for top colleges, AB calculus is assumed and BC is expected if you’re going for a STEM degree.

        1. 2000 grad, though from prep school. Almost everyone did AB, the folks who were math oriented did at least BC if not also something like discrete math or combinatorics. Only the kids who were just there because of mommy and daddy’s money didn’t do any calculus.

        2. I graduated high school in 2012. When I got to engineering school, I would say half of my peers started in Calc 1 (whether they had taken AP calc in high school) and the other half started in Calc 2.

        3. Agree. Not to open a can of worms, but AP has been really watered down. I also graduated in 1999, and the top kids usually only took 2-3 APs total. They were truly college-level classes; getting a 5 indicated that you were actually ready to skip the intro version (even at top top schools). Eventually, everything got the AP label slapped on it, the tests got easier, and admissions officers expect to see a slew of APs.

          1. Eh, I graduated in 2003 and feel like they were already quite watered down then. I took AP tests for a bunch of subjects where I didn’t have the AP class, and got 5s on most of them. I was smart and did do some studying for the test from a Princeton Review book, but I still think it wouldn’t have been possible with a more intense curriculum. And a lot of the kids I met in college had done a dozen or more AP classes.

    2. Back up a few steps. I would start by asking your kid’s guidance counselor about what she’ll be eligible for in the next couple of years. If she’s in advanced math, I highly doubt that doors are closed. She will likely still be able to take AP math classes if she wants.

      I have recently been through this with my kid, who is in all the advanced math classes but was inordinately stressed that he wasn’t chosen to take geometry as an 8th grader. I was very reassured to find out that it really does not matter that much. It’s more to quicken the pace for the extraordinarily math-talented, not to shut anybody else out of opportunities for advanced math or AP courses.

      1. This. At my kid’s very high-pressure lots of pushy parents aiming for Ivy-SLAC-UNC-CH high school, you are on-track to cap out at AB or BC calf as the highest math available. There aren’t that many levels. Truly gifted math kids go to Science and Math boarding high school or take on-line through NCSSM or colleges or go to a magnet program.

      2. Also, does anyone else fear that they’re not *enough* of a tiger mom to get their kids through high school? Because I’m seriously doubting myself and wondering if my kid is going to hate me for my “moderation in all things” approach.

        1. My daughter actually told me that she needed a tiger mom, because I did not push her that hard. She is now a successfully launched as a young professional, so . . . .

        2. I’m not a tiger mom. I am very strict about safety related issues but other than that, I am fully in favor of letting kids figure out what works for them. I have two in college now, they’ve both found what clicks for them (computer science and elementary education, respectively) and that’s great. I lost one child to cancer and it really put all of this in perspective.

          2. I’m very sorry for your loss, and I’m glad you shared your perspective. My parents were very supportive but also let us figure it out. 4 kids, all in very different careers, all of us successful in our own ways. Clearly, they did something right. It is hard to not get caught up in the current parenting culture, which is very very different from the one I grew up in.

        3. Nope, not worried. But I live in a very different culture than many people here. The vast majority of grads from the local high school go to one of the two big state universities, which are perfectly decent but not particularly hard to get into. If my kid wants to aim higher than that, great! And we can pay for private college. But I know she’ll have a perfectly good career and life going to State U so it’s not something that keeps me up at night. I know not everyone has the kind of public U option we do. I feel lucky that our state schools hit the sweet spot of being satisfactory but not overly competitive.

        4. I wouldn’t worry. My parents pushed me very hard and I attached myself worth to my performance in school and work, which is a recipe for disaster once you actually get into the high stress profession you studied and trained for. I’m grateful for financial security, employable skills, etc., but … I’ve also dealt with serious anxiety and depression and have been in therapy for years.

          My partner’s parents weren’t tiger parents. They are immigrants without much formal education and my partner didn’t take high school or college seriously at all. He dropped out of college, eventually went back and got his engineering degree 9 from a low ranked state U years after he graduated high school, and now has a great job that he likes making $115k.

    3. Will she be taking algebra in eighth grade? If not, you could always look into a summer program in which she could take algebra between eighth and ninth grade and then get back on the track (this will get her to calculus in 12th grade).

      1. I’m not sure if that would be on track – I made it to AP Calc AB in high school (2010) and took algebra in 7th grade.

        1. The standard track is algebra in 8th for calc senior year. Taking algebra in 7th would normally result in calculus junior year and something else (CS, statistics, data science, college math) senior year.

    4. It’s unlikely to matter unless she wants to go to somewhere like Caltech, but even there I just read an article that they’re changing the requirement that students take calculus to be admitted (though only for students who attend schools who don’t offer it and it sounds like they still have to take it online). But that kind of requirement is really unusual.

      https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-08-31/caltech-drops-calculus-chemistry-physics-class-admission-requirements-for-some

      1. I should add, it’s not even clear from your comment that she’s not still on track to take calculus anyway. If she is, there’s definitely no reason any college would care.

      2. While I’m glad Caltech is doing this to diversify its student body, I think it’s a real problem that more and more public middle and high schools don’t allow a progression that leads to calculus in high school. It’s basically saying to a bunch of (mostly low-income) kids that they shouldn’t even consider a STEM major because of their ZIP code. Though I loathe George W. Bush, his phrase about “the soft bigotry of low expectations” seems to apply.

    5. None. It will close no doors. As long as she’s doing well in her classes and not bored or struggling, she’ll be fine.

      The admissions bump for having taken college level calc in high school is pretty damn small, they teach calculus in college, you can major in math without any AP calc, and if she’s going the liberal arts route she may not need much in the way of calculus at all.

      1. I majored in engineering 2009-2013 and it was definitely an expectation that engineering students have AB/BC calc already. It wasn’t a firm admissions requirement, but they didn’t offer an introductory calc class — the expectation was if you needed it, you’d find a summer class/watch YouTube videos/and generally catch up

        FWIW, they also expected the equivalent of AP physics, which I didn’t have – and I was definitely behind but was able to generally scramble my way into catching up. I definitely wouldn’t consider what classes you’re taking in seventh grade a “closed door”!

        1. Were you at a top university? I teach at a top 20 public university and there is introductory calculus here (equivalent to AP Calc BC). It seems odd to me for a university to not offer calculus, unless you’re talking about a place like MIT or Caltech where virtually all the students will have had it in high school.

          1. It was a very small school (Olin college in Needham if you’re curious), so that was probably part of it. I know one year a few behind mine they experimented with splitting out kids entering without calculus into a different version of first-year classes, but it didn’t go great – made them feel like they were in a remedial class; and they actually found it harder to catch up than students who were working side by side with peers who /did/ have a calc background

      2. I am going to push back against the “you don’t need calculus” statement. In my own experience and my daughter’s, calculus was the first time that math was interesting, was useful, or taught in a way that wasn’t just rote memorization and mechanistic application of algorithms. The first time a theorem or algorithm is derived, which is typically not done in schools until calculus, it is a revelation. This approach can make kids who thought they hated math realize that they love math and are good at it. Everyone should get the chance to take at least one year of calculus for this reason. Calculus and linear algebra are also essential to understanding foundational courses in many non-STEM fields, including quantitative methods in the social sciences.

        1. Adding to this: if you take A/B in high school, you have an entire year, with class every day, to get used to the different concepts.

          If you don’t take calculus until college, you have 12 weeks, with instruction 2-3 days per week, to get used to the concepts. That can be tough.

        2. If your fundamentals aren’t strong enough to follow along with the derivation, you’re hosed. I’d rather a kid be strong in their fundamentals and a complete newbie to calculus than come to college with half-ass algebra AND half-ass calc.

          1. No kid is getting stronger algebra fundamentals by delaying the same half-a$$ algebra course to a later year.

    6. I don’t have kids, but have been around higher ed for a long time and am in grad school myself (in a STEM discipline that requires a LOT of math).
      The top tier uni rat race will necessitate AP calc and all that stuff for anything STEM or STEM adjacent. IMO, that’s unfortunate, because it sends a lot of kids to uni with loads of credentials/classes but really inadequate basics. Your kid will be better set up to succeed in if they are rock solid in their fundamentals, even if they never touch calculus before college. Students don’t crash and burn in college math classes because the material being taught is hard. In many cases it’s not. They crash and burn because they never learned algebra beyond the bare minimum needed to pass a test in 9th grade or whenever they took it.

      1. So true about algebra. Calculus itself is easy. It’s the algebra and trig involved that trip kids up.

    7. What colleges look for will differ based on the college and the specific program a student applies to. The potential doors that are closed depend on the course sequencing and required prerequisites in your school district.

      I think the real question is if your daughter is in the appropriate math class for her right now. If not, then focus on that. If she is in the right course, don’t borrow trouble.

    8. This is not really a question that can be answered without knowing what major your kid wants to pursue – which is something she probably does not know yet. What colleges look for in their engineering majors is very different than what they look for in their history majors. You can dig around on Prepscholar for information about average GPA for different schools but just be aware that different majors will have different requirements.

      But there is a bigger issue here. Is your kid good enough at math to take the more difficult classes? Is the only reason she is not assigned to a more difficult track the test she took when she left elementary school? Did she get an A in last year’s class? Is she finding this year’s class easy? You could push for her to be moved to the more difficult class this year but would not be doing her a service if the only reason is college admission years down the line. Unless she is planning on engineering or physics, an A in an advanced class will be as good as a B in an AP class and better than a C.

    9. If she wants to be an engineer or something similar, see if she’d be eligible to take AB Calc in her senior year. I wouldn’t do much worrying beyond that.

    10. Worrying about your daughter not having a career because she’s not in double advanced math in 7th grade. JFC.

      1. This is the reality of modern upper-middle-class parenting. It’s a whole different rat race than it was 30 years ago when today’s parents were in high school.

        1. Not the reality for everyone. I think it really depends on where you live. Parents are nowhere near this hands on where I live. And I would say “wealthy” not “upper middle class” although I know people quibble about those terms.

        2. I’m going to push back on this. There’s an industry of college consultants who want people to think this is the case because it makes them money. Is it reality? Nope.

          1. Yeah. I do think this has become normalized in certain areas with a critical mass of extremely wealthy people and a lot of immigrant families (who are generally more intense about education than people who’ve been in the US for generations). My friends in the Bay Area are all nuts about college stuff. They hired tutors for their (academically average to advanced) kids way back when they were in kindergarten. But that’s very foreign to me, and I live in a good school district in an upper middle class area. I don’t know anyone local who has hired a private tutor for a kid unless the kid was like failing a class or something.

          2. I know too many people who chose their majors factoring in the fact that their high school math offerings weren’t good enough and catching up to other kids in college didn’t go well. I’m sure there are others who managed to catch up, but shouldn’t K12 prepare motivated students better?

          3. If those student had trouble with the catch-up math classes in college it’s likely that a major requiring advanced calculus isn’t for them. If they’re struggling with college calculus classes, they’re probably going to struggle with those engineering classes that require it as a prereq, right?

            In the Op’s case, it seems like she’s going to be taking calculus her senior year, which is absolutely fine. It seems like someone wants you to think it’s not, but she would be adequately prepared for STEM majors. The people telling that lady below that her kid won’t be able to get into college unless she takes BC calculus are lying to her.

        3. It is ridiculous to be obssessed with math placement. My son was ready for higher math and started honors algebra in 7th grade. He understood it and could do the work but not the ridiculous amount of homework that they pile on high achieving middle schoolers. We agonized and took him out because he was STILL A KID who needed to climb trees and shoot his bow and arrow and play. He later took algebra and geometry at the same time so he had time for calculus. He is now a happy engineer who enjoys active sports in his free time. STOP THE MADNESS.

    11. Mom of high school senior here. I would read “Who Gets in and Why” and “The Price You Pay for College.” I would also look into hiring a private college counselor in 11th grade if the school does not provide good, individualized guidance on which schools to target and how to fill out applications. The one we hired told us that it is important to take the most advanced courses available to the student. My impression is that top students are generally taking calculus BC senior year, which is “single advanced.” “Double-advanced” would be IB maths HL junior and senior years (equivalent of calc BC plus extra topics) or calc BC junior year and then a college math course senior year, but this option appears pretty rare outside of magnet schools. There are plenty of kids who only take Calc AB and still get into good schools if they are taking all the most advanced courses in other subjects. The main thing appears to be to choose the most rigorous level of courses the school offers, rather than a set number of AP or IB courses. Of course if she wants to go to MIT or Harvard that’s a whole different ballgame and you need to hop on the crazy train right now and get her to win the national science fair, publish a peer-reviewed article, and take multiple college courses. Or donate a building.

      One thing we have learned is that the quality of the teacher makes or breaks these advanced courses in terms of workload, student enjoyment, and test performance. Teachers who assign mountains of meaningless busywork that is supposed to be “fun” and “innovative” instead of just assigning essays and problem sets are the worst. The kids waste a whole bunch of time constructing art projects or searching for images on the web and don’t learn anything that prepares them to succeed on the exam. Chat with parents of slightly older students to get the lowdown on which AP courses at your school are worthwhile and which are torture.

      1. OP here – thanks for this, will look into those books. She’s on track to take AP Calc AB (but there are other classes offered like data science, statistics, and qualitative reasoning?! in addition to AP Calc BC). She got straight As last year in honors and math isn’t a pain point for her – it’s not her most enjoyed subject but it’s easy enough. She had 6th grade dreams of being an investment banker or other money making field but who knows how that changes day to day. sounds like maybe we should find a way to test out of geometry. hmn.

        1. Nooooo, don’t do that. Skipping geometry is a very bad idea… and for what benefit!?

          1. i mean like take it at a summer school type thing so she does it in 2 months instead of 9. but i remember geometry being superfluous, so maybe that’s me. Sounds like we want to end up with Calc BC if possible.

          2. Counterpoint — for me, geometry was actually my first exposure to thinking through proofs (and I adored it :)

            second the advice to focus on whether the math class your kid is in is the right level of challenging for her right now.

            There are lots of options – like if she’s planning a math/stem degree in a couple of years, she could choose to take summer math if your district offers it or a community college or online class to pick up that extra year

        2. I’m a STEM prof and unless she really wants to be a STEM major at one of the most competitive schools, I wouldn’t worry about. I took BC calculus and IB HL math myself, and maybe it made the tiniest difference in getting into an Ivy, but it’s much more important to do well and be solid in math fundamentals, which is less likely if you try to jump her ahead a year. Placing out of an extra semester of calculus is helpful for STEM majors (esp. engineering) because there are so many prereqs to juggle in the first two years, but most students manage it.

      2. “Of course if she wants to go to MIT or Harvard that’s a whole different ballgame and you need to hop on the crazy train right now and get her to win the national science fair, publish a peer-reviewed article, and take multiple college courses.”

        I can’t speak for Harvard but this isn’t true for MIT. I went there and currently interview for admissions. The vast majority of the admits I interview are “just” normal kids with excellent grades and test scores and a bunch of AP classes.

        Yes, it’s very hard to get in and there’s a big element of luck and even kids with top grades and test scores are likely to get rejected from at least some of the top colleges. You should never set your kids up to expect admission to a place like MIT or Harvard, even if they have perfect grades and test scores. But this fearmongering that it’s impossible to get into elite schools without winning some national-level competition is just absurd and doesn’t help anyone. There were like five people in my class at MIT who had won national science fair-type things, out of 1,000 people.

    12. What is the highest level of math? Is she on track to take calculus as a senior? If she wants a career in STEM and wants to attend a four year college, especially a prestigious one, calc by senior year is a good idea. But in my (pretty mediocre) public school district the highest level of math was taking algebra in 7th, which puts you on track for calc as a junior and college math as a senior, and that is unnecessary for the vast majority of kids. And in my kids’ school district, the highest track has you do calculus in 10th, which is just bonkers and totally unnecessary (I went to MIT and very few kids had calc in 10th grade).

    13. I realize things have changed since the millennium, but this just reminds me of my junior year of high school when I took geometry, and half of the class was sophomores who’d taken Algebra 2 over the summer so they could get to calculus by their senior year. Every time the teacher would talk about “for next year in trig” I would raise my hand and say “um, I’m not taking math next year, do I need to listen” and the teacher would sign and say no. I still tested into Calc 1 in college but did I take it? No, no I did not. Have I had a fulfilling legal career? Yes, yes I have.

      1. I was double advanced in 1991, which put me in Calc 1 in junior year. There were maybe 10 of us who were put on this track back in the 6th grade. I did poorly in Calc 1 for a variety of reasons and did not take math senior year (not required). I took Calc 1 again in college and did extremely well. But no math at all was required to graduate for most majors at my university, most of my classmates took no math at all unless they were pre-med (a lot were), and lots of those kids went on to investment banking jobs as their first careers. I went to law school and the comment about calc being the first time math became interesting because algorithms means nothing to me as I don’t use it and have no memory of it (it involves building algorithms? if you say so) and don’t recall having any affinity for it, just aptitude (eventually).

        1. I did very well in Calc BC and got a 5 on the AP exam, but I was also confused by the comment about deriving algorithms in that class. I don’t remember any of that, I remember it being basically a more complex version of algebra. In contrast, geometry was very different and proof-based. I found geometry much harder than algebra and calculus but also more interesting.

    14. In my kid’s high school, “advanced” math placement means you take AP Calc AB as a senior. There are a handful of “double advanced” kids who take AP Calc BC as seniors, but that’s fairly rare and not being “double advanced” doesn’t put you out of the running for STEM programs/majors at colleges in our area. Some kids do take Algebra 2 or Geometry over the summer in high school to accelerate, but not that many. The kids who are interested in selective colleges at our high school (not a majority by any means) get into a lot of different selective colleges, including engineering schools. My two cents is that “regular advanced” is totally fine.

      My own kid is quite good at math, and likes math, but isn’t interested in a mathematics-heavy field, so never wanted to take a summer class. While *I* would have loved to take a summer class, I have to tamp down my helicopter/tiger tendencies and let her live her life a bit. Admissions is such a crap shoot at selective places now that I’m not interested in making her super-miserable for every possible advantage.

      1. Agreed. At my state school you can start pre-engineering in college algebra and plenty do. The only downside is that such a student will have to take classes most summers in order to graduate in 5 years because of the huge amount of required prereqs and courses.

    15. Schools limit who can move up in math by exam not due to the ability of the student but by the number of teachers of higher math. My kids’ former school had 1 honors math teach and space for 30 students in a school with 800 students per year. They told me many children are capable but honors is for the the students who are so advanced that they are disruptive in a normal class. We were lucky enough to move to a private school with enough resources and my kids both did great in advanced math and in college STEM majors. There are other ways to avoid being herded through the system like a sheep.

    16. Please don’t buy into this at all. We pulled our son from 7th grade algebra. He caught up later and he is an engineer. 7th graders still need to play!

  15. Related to the above conversation about sleep, my husband doesn’t snore or grind his teeth, but rather makes sucking/slurping sounds in his sleep. Has anybody ever dealt with this before and is there any way to stop this? Not, of course, that he’s ever tried medical intervention from a doctor or dentist, despite many promises to try. We usually sleep in separate bedrooms but for various reasons have to sleep together for the next few months and I’m about ready to murder him.

  16. It was a very small school (and at the time I went, relatively new and unknown and probably less selective than it is now – Olin College in Needham if you’re curious)

    They do a lot of curriculum experiments – I do know that one year, not mine, they’d tried out splitting the incoming first years without calculus into a separate intro-to-engineering math class; and students didn’t like it – made them feel like they were in a remedial group, and was actually harder to learn compared to just being in the same class using it with peers who had a stronger calc background and could help

Comments are closed.