Coffee Break: Mosaic Huggie Hoops
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Sales of note for 2/7/25:
- Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
- Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
- Boden – 15% off new season styles
- Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
- J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
- Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- My workload is vastly exceeding my capability — what should I do?
- Why is there generational resentment regarding housing? (See also)
- What colors should I wear with a deep green sweater dress?
- How do you celebrate milestone birthdays?
- How do you account for one-time expenses in your monthly budget?
- If I'm just starting to feel sick from the flu, do I want Tamilfu?
- when to toss old clothes of a different size
- a list of political actions to take right now
- ways to increase your intelligence
- what to wear when getting sworn in as a judge (congrats, reader!)
- how to break into teaching as a second career
Lawyers – how did you decide to go to law school? What made you decide that it was the right career for you? Overall, are you happy with your choice?
I’m considering law school and have been scheduling informational interviews with lawyers in my network (I do policy-related work at the federal level), but I’d love to hear other anecdata.
I went b/c I lived in DC and every man who was NOT a student that wanted to have sex with me was a lawyer. Dad said I should be one to because he did NOT have a JD and figuredthat haveing one JD in the family was a good idea, and that I could attract a guy to MARRY me with a JD. Boy was he wrong. Men do NOT want to marry a JD, just make them take their clothe’s off! FOOEY!
I went to law school because I was always good at and enjoyed reading, writing and debate. I interned at a law firm in high school and throughout college and took law classes in college. I had a really good idea of what I was getting into when I went to law school. Graduated in 2010 and it was extremely difficult to land a job. Eventually did, but have since changed jobs 3 times because of downsizing. At times in the last 5 years I have loved being a lawyer, mostly when I get to do actual legal work. But I find the law firm business model to be a complete disaster, I mostly find law firm lawyers to be people I have little in common with and the business part of being a lawyer is really backwards and counter-intuitive. So long story short? I love lawyering, but the jury is still out for me on whether I am happy being a lawyer.
Well said!
Please, for the love of all things good and right in this world, do not go to law school.
I’m a mid-30s second year lawyer who had a fulfilling career doing meaningful work, but felt a bit like I was at a dead end, so I turned to law school. What I should have done is just found another job. Because I now spend my days doing clerical work (“Hey, [Department] sent this over. Could you retype it to make it prettier?”). The fact that I have a brain in my head and 10 years of work experience counts for nothing; I’m simply a junior associate and treated the same as all the other 25 year olds who’ve never had a real job before. My professional situation is so deeply frustrating that I’m on anti-depressants. Seriously. If you have a good job, don’t leave it.
What do you believe you can do with a law degree in policy that you can’t now? Because stopping out of the workforce for 3 years, while incurring tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, will very likely leave you in a worse position than if you had simply stayed at your job.
Yeah, this. I had policy experience and was interested in policy work. And went to HYS. Ended up at a law firm because that’s sort of just what happens, and I regret it for sure. Sorry that is bleak but the law firm model is terrible and it’s really hard to get non-law firm jobs, even for someone who went to a top 3 school.
In retrospect, I should have thrown myself into public interest only internships and just avoided all things policy. I would LOVE to find a job that pays me 20% of my current salary, but no one will hire me for that. I make a lot of money, but not worth it.
If you were going straight through I might recommend it – you can get all of the painful part done early. If you took off any amount of time you are likely to be frustrated and asked to put in huge hours at a time when you are starting a family.
I had a friend who went to an HYS with no scholarship. Graduated in the bottom half of her class. Got no-offered at a NYC firm. She’s living with her parents in a midwest city doing grant-writing for a non-profit. She’s really happy, but she’ll be living with the debt a very long time.
To be fair, she probably got no-offered in the summer of ’09 or around then, right? It’s not like she was no offered because of poor academic performance. Most people, even those in the bottom half of their classes, at HYS have no problem finding great legal jobs when the economy is not imploding. But I generally agree with the advice to take on as little debt as possible.
Yea, you’re right, it was the summer of ’09.
Interesting (and believablr, unfkrtunately) point of view.
I went to law school largely because I realized my science undergrad was not something I was interested in doing as a career, and I loved a lot of the things lawyers regularly do (writing, analyzing) or things I thought they regularly did (arguing, public speaking). I went into IP litigation, which was a natural fit for my background and also something I was very interested in.
Overall, I’m relatively happy with my choice, with the caveat that this is almost certainly not my forever career. I went straight through undergrad to law school and am now 32 and 7 years out of law school and trying to figure out what I want to do next. I really enjoy the day-to-day work of being a patent litigator, but it’s not a lifestyle that would ever work with a family for me (I know there are women who make it work; kudos to them, I need to sleep). And, kids aside, frankly I’m really starting to notice the long hours taking a toll on my physical health and emotional well-being. It’s cliche, but it really is harder pulling all-nighters in your 30s than it is in your 20s. I know there are law jobs that offer much better work-life balance, but the things I love about my job are hard to replicate outside of a big firm environment. I’m also feeling the itch to write in a more creative way, so I’m thinking about trying out communications or journalism or even trying to write a novel.
So I guess I’m not a success as a lawyer in that I don’t feel like I’m going to do this forever. But I was fortunate to graduate with almost no debt and have recouped my law school investment many, many times over, and my salary has afforded us the ability to take some incredible luxury vacations and buy a house in a HCOL area, which would have been hard without Big Law-type money (my husband has a stable job he loves that requires a lot of education, but it doesn’t and never will pay that well). I think of law as a very intellectually stimulating and lucrative first career that has given me the financial freedom to chase my dreams more in my second career, if that makes sense.
Consider yourself lucky to be on the litigation side. I also have a science background but went into prep & pros instead of litigation because it was “cushy” (as in, normal hours, decent salary). Since the recession, the whole specialty became commoditized and no longer pays very well compared to IP lit. We weathered KSR and Bilski just fine but Mayo and Alice? Those are destroying us.
The more senior associates in my firm are leaving for shops that pay more than the traditional 1/3 (like 50% of billables going to the working attorney) or to other firms where COL is lower. The firm has indefinitely delayed moving my entire class from salary to “eat what you kill” because associates were threatening to leave if they do so (the transition now results in a pay cut and stagnating wage).
My kids love their school and my husband’s family is here so I’m trying to stick it out.
Don’t be a patent lawyer. This was a good niche, now it’s being targeted by AI scientists for replacement of human lawyers. Honestly, this could happen in any legal niche and I wouldn’t want to enter this field with $200k in debt and an uncertain future.
Yup, I’m well aware of the issues in prosecution. I thought seriously about it because of the comparatively more reasonable hours (although my sense is the hours are just as long, only more regular) but ultimately didn’t, both because I find litigation more interesting and because my degree isn’t in a field that’s really used in patent prosecution (think math, and I don’t have enough CS background to do prosecution in that area). I feel for all you guys, I really do. I hope things get better. If you’re at a prosecution boutique, you might explore going to a firm that has litigation work as well. We use our prosecutors as sort of “in-house experts” to analyze patents and prior art and help us make better use of the real experts. You never go to court or draft mindless discovery, and the prosecutors I know who do this kind of thing really enjoy it.
Thanks! We’ll be OK. We all have science degrees and law degrees. Contrary to what litigators might think, we are actually decent writers when not budget-constrained. There isn’t that much we aren’t qualified for.
I’m hesitant about staying within patents at all. I have a feeling that my second career will not be legal or writing intensive.
If you haven’t already, email Belle from the Capitol Style blog. She was a political staffer who left to go to law school. She graduates this weekend. I haven’t heard where she’s going to end up (i.e., if it worked out/paid off for her). I believe she got a full ride to go to her state university back home. She’s good about answering emails.
I wanted to be a lawyer and it was the only way. I had worked as a paralegal and liked what I saw. My career is nothing like what I imagined (lol at international law) but I love it.
I thought I could get more done to Make a Difference as a lawyer than as a social worker, which was another career I was considering. It’s true — in my field, we can Get Stuff Done, help people, get new laws passed, etc. I am about 9 years into my career. And while all that is true, I’m also pretty jaded at this point about a lot of things in my field — content-wise, running-a-business wise (contingency litigation model), lifestyle wise. Working ALL.THE.TIME was fine with me for about the first 5 years — it wasn’t so different from being in school. (Even in my pre-law-school full time job, I was enrolled in another program at night.) And then suddenly working ALL.THE.TIME — which was frankly not as much as people in biglaw — and always feeling like you SHOULD be working more was no longer okay with me — as a junior attorney in a firm, even a small plaintiff’s firm, you are focusing mainly on doing legal work. As you get more senior you are focusing much more on building the business, marketing, networking, etc. and it’s just a whole lotta work. Then we had a kid and I got even more protective of my time and even more stressed out by the unpredictability of litigation (you just never know if you have to work that night/that weekend/on vacation!), stressed out by the demands of building and running a profitable firm, tired of constantly fighting and arguing, etc. So now I’m trying to figure out whether I am just ready for a new job or ready to leave law all together. As a law student, or a prosepective law student, I knew about the constant work and it just seemed fine with me. I think if it were more predictable it might still be fine, but I definitely feel differently about life/career than I did as a 22 year old and am not really sure it was the right choice.
I took a business law class in undergrad and loved it, and I was good at reading and writing, and I couldn’t think of anything better to do, so I went to law school. It worked out reasonably well for me because it was in the mid-80s when the job market was strong, but being a lawyer in a firm was a horrible life and I am much happier in my government job.
I would not advise a young person to take on debt to go to law school under any circumstances whatsoever. Those golden handcuffs are the worst even if you have a high-paying job, which is far from a given in this day and age. And if you don’t have the salary to service the loans, you are well and truly screwed.
And I echo what Anonymous at 3:33 says about the business part of law. Please realize that when you go into the private practice of law, you are consenting to be a business owner, with all that entails — office leases, collections, business development, staffing and personnel issues. Lawyering is often the least of it. The people I know who are successful and happy at it are the ones who put their law practices at the very center of their personal Venn diagrams — they become friends with their clients and partners and their life is made of up things related to their career. Golfing, bar associations, being in the office. If you are not prepared for your career to be the largest part of your life, don’t go into law.
The only person I would advise to go to law school (or more accurately, whom I would not try really hard to dissuade from going to law school) is the person who can do so without taking on debt, who has a very clear picture of the kind of law he or she wants to practice and what that practice will be like in reality (from entry level onwards), and who really really REALLY has a burning desire to do it despite having full information about what it will be like.
+1 What is it you think a law degree will do for you? Do you want to continue in policy work? Why a JD and not an MPP or MPA? Or a Master’s/PhD in your field? Also pay a lot of attention to law school rankings. It’s insane but they matter in law in a way they don’t matter in other areas. If you know you’ll have a job when you get out and for whatever reason you just need that JD after your name, then go wherever will offer you the most money. If you want to try your luck in the general legal world, being at the T14 really makes a difference. I wish it didn’t. And there are plenty of brilliant and talented lawyers who went to other schools. But there are still too many law students out there and an easy way to cull through them is to cut out anyone who didn’t go to a certain school, and anyone with a GPA below a certain level. And if you’re in DC, that goes double. People here love having a bunch of Harvard, Yale, and Stanford law grads on their web sites.
Plug for getting an MPA! I have one plus a B.S. and work for a large state on policy and finance. Specifically, I work on Medicaid. It’s challenging, interesting, and really makes me feel like i’m doing something that makes a difference.
I went to a top-10 MPA program that heavily focused on internships and got a great education. I walked away with minimal debt and work doing exactly what I wanted to do. I’ll never make BigLaw money, but I make a respectable income and have the option to work either at the push-yourself pace or a straight 8-4, M-F, no OT pace (great for kids when they’re school aged).
I work with lawyers who do policy work and often draft legislation with them. I like this part of my job, but have realized I’m glad it’s not my whole job.
Again, plug for an MPA (or MPP!).
Just want to echo what everyone else has said – figure out what it is that you think a law degree will do for you, and if there’s literally any other way to achieve that end result without losing tens of thousands of dollars, do that other thing instead. Even if you go to law school 100% for free – which isn’t likely, even if you get a guaranteed full-tuition scholarship you will still have books and student fees and living costs – you are foregoing three years of full-time work. 22 year old Killer Kitten Heels did not understand that aspect of it, but 31 year old Killer Kitten Heels deeply, deeply regrets what those early years of non-earning and debt accrual have done for her savings and other financial life goals.
In general, I think that instead of focusing on “what do I do next?”, you should take some time to think about what you want your life to look like in 15 years. What kind of work/life balance do you aspire to? What kind of work do you hope to be doing? Picture 45 or 50 year old you meeting someone for the first time at a cocktail party and describing your career to that person – what kind of story would it make you happy to tell? Also, look at job postings – what appeals to you? What jobs do you look at and think, “D@mn, I wish I was qualified to do that!”? Basically, figure out who you want to be, then work backwards from there to determine whether law school is a necessary cost to get you there.
Your second paragraph is fantastic for all career decision-making. I wish I’d read it 5 years ago!
(No comment to the OP, I am not a lawyer. I used to be interested in that path, but reading this s1te gave me a much more realistic view of what it would entail, and I decided it wasn’t for me, mostly for work-life balance reasons.)
Related question: any advice for law students interested in going into the public sector? I’m a first-year and I was lucky enough to secure full funding. I understand that entry level non-profit fellowships are hard to come by and entry level government hiring is difficult, but I feel passionate about this and would like to start my career here.
I’m paranoid, so sorry for the vagueness! Here’s a little clarification. I worked before law school as a paralegal at a legal public interest organization, and then as a legal assistant at another. I am interested in working in a similar area. My impression so far is that getting an entry level public interest job is exceptionally difficult. It seems like the typical route is to pursue one-year or two-year long fellowships in the hopes of securing an entry level position. I have occasionally gotten the advice to start off at a firm and then try to lateral over to a position that I really love. On one hand, I am not sure if this is good advice, and I feel lucky enough to be have a scholarship that allows me to think carefully about what I’d like to do after law school. On the other, I feel odd about not going to a firm and getting the training/experience that could offer.
So I guess I’m torn between doubling down on my initial interests and hedging. Any advice?
If you’re truly interested in the public sector, do not go to a firm. You won’t get experience there that would be better than the experience you’d get doing a one or two year fellowship. Your first two years at a law firm would mostly be spent doing clerical or paralegal work (though some firms are different and you’d get some experience, most are not going to train you up in substantive legal work in the first couple of years). Try to spend every summer interning with a public interest org. Try to get a post-graduation fellowship with one. Those very often turn into entry level positions.
Thanks so much. That’s really helpful.
I’d say avoid a firm if at all possible – you don’t get any better training and you then have to argue your way in. Try to get one of those fellowships!
What kind of public interest work do you want to do? In my state, especially if you are willing to go to an outlying area, the public defender and the district attorney are almost always hiring. People often do a few years at one of these agencies and then (particularly public defenders) move on to Legal Aid/Poverty Law/ACLU type organizations.
I’d say whether you should go to a firm depends on what type of public interest law you want to do.
Environmental law? Start at a firm, unless you went to HYS and have a hard science background at the minimum and an org has already told you they want to hire you. Housing defense? You could start in a property law practice. Healthcare related? Regulatory experience will set you apart.
The problem is that most public interest groups/gov’t don’t have the time or resources to train young attorneys. So if you can get the training you need in private practice, you’ll look very attractive to public interest employers in a few years.
Public defender? Juvenile justice? Reproductive rights? Civil rights (unless you get a job at a top notch appellate firm doing civil rights lit….). Better off plugging away for fellowships.
I went to a top 20 school and had great grades and a solid pedigree of experience in my public interest niche. I was so f’ing passionate. Everyone knew that xyz type of public interest law was my jam. I graduated in the recession (not the thick of it, but only a few years after) and could. not. get a public interest/government job. Interviewed at probably 10 places. It was brutal and I wound up in private practice … where I never ever ever wanted to be! But turns out that will be a much better path for me to get where I’d wanted to go. Whether you go full-tilt public interest in law school or don’t is a tough choice. You won’t be attractive to public interest employers without doing that, but you will get serious side eye from firms. If you’re willing to risk not being attractive at all to firms, ok- but that could mean really struggling for employment.
In my experience, you don’t have to argue your way into public interest orgs from firms after a certain number of years- sooooooooooo many lawyers want to make that transition… it’s an open secret that we’d almost all rather be fighting the good fight.
Network like crazy with professors and professionals in the public sector you want to work in, and stick to your guns throughout the OCI process. It will be really frustrating when all of your classmates get biglaw jobs and you still have nothing (since public sector jobs won’t hire until you’re well into your 3L year). It’s very easy to get swept into the OCI process for that reason.
I’m the worst example in the world – I went to law school because I didn’t know what to do with my life. It worked out for me – I tend to a T5 school and made partner and paid off the last of my $160K student loan debt this year. But I’m an exception. The advice I give people is not to go to law school unless you know what you want to do with yourself on a day in, day out basis, and you have to be a lawyer to do that.
Also, I agree with others that if you’re going to target a career in Biglaw – which I have, and love – you have to be a person who is heavily oriented toward work and is comfortable and even enthusiastic about work occupying a much larger portion of your time and your emotional life than the average person.
I wanted in the long term to do 3 different things: 1. be a judge! 2. write fiction. 3. education reform
I taught for a bit but realized education reform won’t happen for awhile.
I figured I could be a judge and also write fiction, but to become a judge, I had to be a lawyer, hence law school.
I don’t do what I thought I’d be doing, but I love it. I didn’t love my first job because of the work/partners, but now I’m in biglaw and love my group/job.
I know I’m lucky in that respects, but I think if you are conscientious of your choices, you too can end up doing what you like. I graduated 2011, T14, middle of the class.
I spent three years post-college in a policy/think tank job doing international work. Loved it. Many, many of the people I liked and who had interesting jobs who were more senior to me had law degrees. So I went to law school. Liked law school, loved my summer internships (one public interest, one BigLaw). But after law school, even though I’d had lots of aid during school, I still had lots of debt and couldn’t afford to go back into public interest work. And I was remarkably unprepared to do more policy work. Law school was terrific for lots of reasons, but it did not, by any means, get me to the higher level policy work I thought I wanted.
Now, 10+ years post graduation, I really love my career and my job — but it took years (YEARS!) to get there. That’s years of being a junior associate, crying in my office, tearing my hair out, not sleeping. I love my job now, but it took a lot of pain to get here. And I’m not remotely qualified to go back into the policy work that I thought I was going to law school to do.
+1. This is pretty much my story as well. I would add that I 100% regret law school, though I’m also not sure what I’d be doing career wise if I hadn’t gone (my job is only semi-legal but law got me here).
Thank you all! I really, really appreciate the responses. Believe me, I’m taking all of this to heart.
I went to law school b/c my sterling undergrad credentials got me a $25K/year job that would lead nowhere and I had no other ideas. Financed the whole thing at a T5 school, parents have no money.
11 years later, I am in-house, paid off my $200k+ loans, and have a barely 7 figure net worth. My work is cool but I’m at a recognized in-house sweatshop and do not have time for hobbies, friends, family, or a relationship. On most Friday nights, if I am not working late then I am in bed by 630PM. I don’t even have the energy to eat dinner usually.
I recognize that I am lucky. But I would love to downshift and have so far been unsuccessful. Recruiters and employers know how much money people make and they are suspicious that I am being managed out. I have avoided the golden handcuffs but I still feel trapped. Lucky, but trapped.
“Recruiters and employers know how much money people make and they are suspicious that I am being managed out. I have avoided the golden handcuffs but I still feel trapped. Lucky, but trapped.”
This.
Has anyone dealt with v ulvodynia and/or pelvic floor tension myalgia and found something that worked to alleviate or cure it? I feel like I have tried everything (PT, all the meds, acupuncture, alternative therapies, etc.) and I’m at my wits’ end after a year of suffering.
I dealt with it. It’s horrible and I’m sorry you’re dealing with it. I went to PT and hated it. I worked with a s3x therapist with my husband. I got off every medication I was on (and I still miss my Lexapro and could really use it some days). I stopped bc and had an IUD inserted instead (low hormone). Somehow after about a year of it, all of these things somehow started to slowly (incredibly slowly) start working. I think the most important – which the therapist worked with me on – was breaking the cycle of anxiety/fear that I been dealing with. Of course, I had to be physically through the worst of it before that could help. This involved a lot of – ok this part doesn’t hurt, do it some, then stop. Then repeat another time and try a little more. I still have to relax for a significant periods of time before I can “garden”, but 3 years later, things are much better. It was one of the hardest, most isolating things I’ve ever experienced. If you feel the same, you’re not alone in it.
Thanks. At this stage I mostly want to be able to sit through a meeting or a dinner or a short drive without being in agony (at my desk I can stand all day, but I can’t really do that in meetings). S3x seems pretty unlikely when I’m in constantly so much pain (and there’s so much inflammation – my gyn is stumped and doesn’t know what else she can do for me, and my PT keeps trying but it doesn’t seem to be working). I’m not on any hormonal bc but the doc prescribed nortriptyline for the nerve pain (not working). It’s so, so isolating and frustrating.
I am so, so sorry. I don’t have it, but a friend is going through pelvic floor PT right now and says it’s so unpleasant, and she has had to have multiple shots when her muscles freeze up during PT.
FWIW, any chance you could stand in meetings by claiming a back injury or general “sitting too long causes muscle spasms” without specifying WHERE those muscle spasms are occurring? I know I have sat through more than one meeting with someone who wound up standing for the majority of the time due to back issues. It may not be ideal, but it’s better than being in too much agony to actually pay attention.
This is a good idea. In the short term it can help me survive meetings.
If you are seeing a pelvic floor PT specialist, see if they will have your gyne write for Valium vaginal suppositories. They work well.
Unfortunately those didn’t work for me. (I really have tried everything. Sigh.)
What are your top 5 casual items for summer wear? It’s getting nice out, I want to get my closet ready. I think birkenstocks will be really in this summer.
Bermuda shorts
Breton-stripe tops
Slip on Supergas
Jersey maxi dresses
Baseball caps (keep out the sun!)
ugh no. Birkenstocks are never in. You can wear them but they’re not particularly fashionable. This year, I think lace up sandals and off the shoulder tops/dresses will be really in.
They were in last summer. I suspect notsomuch this summer.
Say ugh all you like, they are in- I predict they will be the shoe of the summer.
http://www.bustle.com/articles/146785-are-birkenstocks-in-style-for-spring-summer-2016
http://www.sfgate.com/style/article/Trends-We-Say-No-To-Birkenstocks-are-back-6400687.php
That’s good to know. I still have my silver ones from last summer…
They were definitely in during the late 90’s.
Berkenstocks have always be “in” in the PNW. My feet were so comfy when I lived there.
You can pry my Birkenstock Gizehs off my cold, dead feet. Until then, step back!
The Birkenstock resurgence started when I think Prada sent a pair of shoes that looked a lot like the classic 2 strap Birkenstock down the runway. I’m thinking this was in 2013 or 2014.
The trend has filtered its way down to those of us who don’t wear runway fashions and I would guess it has a couple of more years to go.
All I can say is that my 15 year old daughter’s most fervent wish upon starting high school this year was to have a pair of real Birkenstocks. And she wore them with socks all winter.
Kill me now.
– all the dresses
– Jockey Slipshorts
– big straw hats
– sandals with NO toe separating thingy
-and a warm jacket because it gets cold in SoCal at night
I could use some advice. I recently started seeing a therapist about some anxiety issues that felt like they were becoming overwhelming. I had the third session yesterday and near the end of it, we started talking about something that unexpectedly touched a nerve, I guess. I felt shaky and anxious for the rest of the day, then, right when I was about ready to go to bed, got news that one of the things that I’ve been obsessively (and irrationally) anxious about had happened.
Perhaps predictably, that led to a spiral. And now I’m not sure how I’m supposed to get through the next week. It’s a bad time to check out at work. Are there strategies people use to just focus on something else for a while.
I would call your therapist and see if you might be able to get a session in tomorrow or Monday.
Thanks. I wondered if that was reserved for real crisis situations. This is all really new to me.
This is a “real crisis” – you’re having difficulty functioning in your everyday life! It’s okay to ask your therapist for extra help from time to time – that’s what they’re for!
I’m the last person to call or “bother” my therapist, but this sounds to me like it falls under the “don’t keep it bottled up till next week.” My therapist also texts me, if I need it, just to be encouraging (and saves longer conversations for a phone consult or in-person session).
I’m not American, but I am really surprised that Trump has done so well. What will happen if he wins the presidency? I feel like the US is some kind of twilight zone. He’s certainly better than Cruz, but, I guess I’d love to understand why people support him
I’m more confused about the predictions that he can’t win the general election. Wasn’t that what everyone was saying about the primary most of the way along?
Yes. This. He is SO CAPABLE of winning, and it’s scary. Anyone who sits back and takes comfort in telling themselves that he can’t win is lying and just as dangerous as he is.
I think everyone underestimates him, and overestimates voters being informed and reasoned
This. It has been a really eye-opening primary cycle in terms of understanding how apparently huge (YUGE) numbers of Americans think.
Yeah, but it wasn’t supported by polling then. It is now.
I’m fairly certain polling showed that he could never win more than 40% of the Republican primary voters and that was proven wrong. I wouldn’t lean on polling as proof he can’t win the general.
Not quite. He’s had net favorable ratings among Republican voters for awhile, even if voters said they preferred other candidates. And very stable net unfavorable ratings among the electorate at large.
I am scared too, but I’m not sure the “they said he couldn’t win the primary and he did” logic applies. The reason people thought he couldn’t win a primary is because it was assumed that most of the 17 candidates would drop out and everyone would get behind someone more mainstream like Rubio or Bush or even Cruz. That didn’t happen and it was a multi-person race for far longer than most people predicted. Nobody ever said “in a head to head race, Trump can’t beat Cruz [or Rubio or whomever] based on polls.” I’m pretty sure he was the top polling candidate all along in most places, but being #1 out of 17 isn’t good enough if everyone voting for the other 16 gets together to vote against you. The reasoning that he can’t win the general IS based on polls he can’t beat either Hillary or Bernie one-on-one. So the logic is different. It’s definitely scary though.
My boyfriend and most of my family support him. They’re all upper middle class and college educated.
– They’re tired of being politically correct and want to be able to say “common” things without the “PC police” jumping down their throats. They feel like societal norms are changing too quickly – men in women’s bathrooms, legal pot, gay marriage. They feel like everything is about “accommodating” other people, but no one’s listening when they say they liked things the way they were.
– They genuinely believe illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from Americans.
– They feel a sense of America’s decline on the international stage from a generation ago. A generation ago, we had Reagan, ergo, a return to his party and his policies will return the US to its rightful prominence.
They all believe that Trump will govern carefully once he’s elected and that he’ll only do a fraction of the things he’s said, that his words are for show and that he’ll be more rational and calm once in office. They don’t think he’ll ban Muslims, but they do think he’ll build a wall.
Please, no flames – I’m just repeating what I’ve heard – these aren’t my viewpoints.
No flames! I appreciate the honest response.
Pretty much all the reasons listed are basically underpinned by intolerance and racism, or a desire to move the world backwards, which I find really hard to understand. They’re probably right that Trump would govern more carefully than he’s campaigned
Yup. The first point really boils down to “We love it that he gives us permission to say all the horrible things we think about people who are not like us. We liked it way better when we were on top and could be awful to other people with impunity.”
+100
This.
Don’t underestimate how racist this country is.
Yeah, this. So racist. And sexist.
Well, you didn’t flame me, but you did call my family intolerant or racist… And that is part of the reason why they support Trump, I figure. Politics these days is so polarized. There are nuances to your views and there are nuances to theirs. Respect is needed on both sides. It is legitimate to *feel* something (e.g., frustration). The goal for politics should be to work together to recognize the authenticity and legitimacy of all viewpoints, whether or not you agree with them, and work together toward a mutually agreeable goal. Having one side take command and blitz the other, and vice versa when power changes hands every cycle, is not the most cooperative way to run a nation.
My family isn’t particularly religious, but I think they do miss a more “wholesome” world. Things move a lot more quickly now with the Internet and they would like the sex, drugs, and violence that’s everywhere these days to go away. I tell them to turn off the tv because the world really isn’t as bad as the news makes it seem, but it’s like they’re addicted to it to prove their point about how bad things are now. (Which I understand is a psychological phenomenon.)
They do strongly oppose immigration, which drives me batty. Hello, have you seen our German last name? I must have missed the Native American tribe called Mueller. Everyone is an immigrant! “But we assimilated! We don’t speak Spanish or Arabic!” Yes, but over how many generations? They just got off the plane last year; give them a minute.
I think they would like everybody to just hang on for a minute. It’s been quite a period of social change, if you think about the last 5 years.
The social change of the last 5 years has been in the works for half a century and longer in some cases. What seems “quick” to people who cannot identify with one of the affected social groups has been long fought for. Very similar to your understanding that German immigrants didn’t “assimilate” overnight, I would encourage you to look at the still on-going social movements as change that has not occurred overnight.
The thing is… the only value in the nostalgia of the past is for the people who were “better off” in that past period. People who have been historically oppressed have no more patience for being told to “hang on.” And that might be uncomfortable for the people who previously occupied the seat of power, but that doesn’t make it a bad thing.
I mean, the “common things” that your family wants to be able to say with impunity are, in fact, racist (or sexist, homophobic, or otherwise predicated on bias). Many of things that they don’t want to change are things that are forms of discrimination. They may have many other lovely and redeeming qualities, but that doesn’t make them magically not racist/sexist/homophobic.
Thank you, Sarabeth. And you, Anon, tolerate it. So…
Ick, there’s really no “nuances” to banning Muslims from entering the United States. There’s not. It’s cute that you have decided that their feelings are somewhat legitimate, but for people who are at the receiving end of this vitriolic racism it really doesn’t work that way.
And, Pretty, Anon is supposed to…what, exactly? I’m sure her family knows she disagrees with them. Cut all ties?
+1 My Nannu is racist AF. But, he is a white European immigrant who speaks terrible English. Somehow his immigration status and poor English skills are offset by being white.
They ARE intolerant and racist. I have some similar characters in my family, and I get that it might touch a nerve to hear that. But call a spade a spade. What they call being PC I call basic human decency.
It’s not just her family, it’s her boyfriend too. I get dating someone with different political views, but not to this extent.
“Respect is needed on both sides. It is legitimate to *feel* something (e.g., frustration). The goal for politics should be to work together to recognize the authenticity and legitimacy of all viewpoints, whether or not you agree with them, and work together toward a mutually agreeable goal. ”
Yeah, no. There are certain beliefs I don’t have to respect. I do not have to recognize the authenticity and legitimacy of all viewpoints. I don’t have to work together toward a mutually agreeable goal if that mutually agreeable goal will consist of bigotry or hatred or racism towards a group.
There’s a big issue with this “respect all sides” mentality that people have adopted. Some views aren’t legitimate. It’s not a legitimate view that “global warming isn’t real.” The media plays along with this “both sides are equally valid” BS rather than actually vetting view points and that’s why 25% of this country thinks the sun revolves around the earth and that Obama is a Kenyan Muslim Terrorist. It’s not a legitimate viewpoint that Muslim neighborhoods should be monitored, that women are second-class citizens, that outright racism is ok, or that discriminating against LGBT people at every level is ok.
I’ll give you that people feel frustrated and that that frustration is important and meaningful to them. But none of this crap about “respecting all sides” when one of those sides calls for outright discrimination. Nope.
A disagreement about the best way to implement a new regulatory scheme, or which policy proposal is most effective- those are areas where the legitimacy of both arguments can be explored. But that’s not what the Trump b*gots are doing.
@STW, yes, I think it’s important to make that distinction, as well as how telling it is that OP is choosing to date someone like this. It’s one thing to tolerate and even love family members who have some odious beliefs, I think it’s an entirely different situation to choose to be with someone who holds those views.
So, is the idea that society should slow down its evolution or growth – social, politicaL, religious, economic, etc. – so that these family members and other like them get time to process it and catch up?
If so, what exactly gives them the privilege to determine that society should slow down, or revert, rather than modify their own antiquated views and try keeping up?
Do any of us really have that option? “Hey…Slow down, world! This ‘new’ stuff is too much for my sensibilities!”
(Just an attempt at thinking through their rationale here.)
I understand the feeling that social norms are changing too quickly (although I disagree). But what kinds of common things do they want to say? Do they really feel that imposed upon by the pc police to use certain words? That seems so minor to me but I clearly don’t have that view so I really wonder why it is such a common argument.
Not necessarily my viewpoint, but I do think there is a lot of policing of language and trigger-warnings and that type of thing going on right now. Take even this site sometimes. Can’t say “fat”, get abuse for saying “average.” Need a trigger warning for talking about dieting. Perhaps some of it is educational and justified, but when you consider that we are a relatively educated, successful group, you have to realize that are so many others in the country that are coming at that type of thing 5 steps behind us.
I would bet a million bucks that none of your Trump-supporting relatives are worried about not being able to say “fat” on Corporette.
So what are they really upset about? I’d guess they miss being able to use racial and sexual slurs with impunity.
You nailed it! And then, there are the code words with connotations to identify individuals or groups that, on the surface, seem innocuous, but clearly zero in on “who” is being spoken about: “thug,” “terrorist,” “immigrant.”
The thug or terrorist, by definition, can be a Timothy McVeigh type, for example. However, that face is not what American minds would conjure up when those words are used. Similarly, “immigrant” wouldn’t reference Trump’s immigrant ancestors, or even his two “immigrant” wives, Ivana and Melania, to the typical American imagination.
(No, the average American is thinking of the folks Donald wpuld like to fence out of America with his great, big wall that he’s going to make Mexico pay for.)
A “Muslim” – a patron to his religion like any other person with a belief system – becomes synonymous with having sinister motives in a nation allegedly founded on the premise of religious freedom by people who allegedly fled religious persecution.
When President Obama ran in 2007, and he was labeled “a Muslim,” although he consistently identified as a Christian, I wondered to myself, “And, let’s suppose he is Muslim. Then, what? Should it matter anyway? Is there a clause in the Constitution prohibiting Muslims from running for office?”
But again, to the WASP population, an entire religion is a code word for “undesirables.” See how that works?
It also appears that Donald is not saying anything that is not often heard spewing from the lips of many GOP’ers. The problem is when called to the carpet for their antiquated – and often abusive – points of view, they backpedal. That type of talk is reserved for behind closed doors. Trump brings the shenanigans to the forefront, and they want to disown him as if he’s a renegade, or a lone ranger.
What they’re honestly despising is the potential loss of the presidency again, if the right number and populations of people hate Trump’s point of view. The GOP honchos only disagree with him to the extent that it costs votes. Now, their strategy is to apparently isolate him by having the main powerbrokers skip the GOP convention and disavow any ties to the man. Clearly, he”s unbothered (as he sweeps his haor across his head and forges onward).
Reportedly, George H.W. “Papa” Bush, his son Dubya, “Big Money Romney,” and Old Man McCain have all vowed to skip the convention this year. (Recall that these are the dame people who thought having Clint Eastwood talking to an empty chair – supposedly representin President Obama- was funny.) Let’s see what cute antics Ole Donald can drum up…
Oops. Used the name of this place and ended up in moderation. Trying again:
I would bet a million bucks that none of your Trump-supporting relatives are worried about not being able to say “fat” on [here].
So what are they really upset about? I’d guess they miss being able to use racial and sexual slurs with impunity.
I struggle with reconciling the idea that the party that wants people to be “polite” and “well-behaved” (with regard to sex, drugs, and violence) also wants the “PC Police” to get off their backs about calling people fat, gay, retarded, etc. How does that group square what they see as civility with reckless language?
Whenever I hear someone rant about the PC police it comes across as “I want to be able to say what I want without repercussion or consideration for how it makes anyone else feel.” Yes, you have a first amendment right to say it, but don’t go blaming the PC police when people call you out for being a racist, inconsiderate jerk.
Yeah, I think a lot of people think, “I am a good and decent person, and I generally try to do and say the right thing, and then I get jumped on and called hateful for saying something that to me sounds totally reasonable and inoffensive, and I don’t understand why, so I’m not even going to try. And if I know that I’m a good person, so it must mean the people on the other side are not good people.” Really similar to the attitude that extremists seem to demonstrate where they Won’t even try to find common ground to start from with the other side, so things get even more polarized. And it’s not just the Republicans, and I’m terrified that people like some of these commenters that totally dismiss Trump sympathizer will just drive more enthusiasm for him. Come on, someone was just honestly and thoughtfully answering a question, don’t be jerks about it! Also, see http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/hard-truths-about-how-to-beat-donald-trump/481158/
I think his support combines disparate groups, that make me pretty depressed about the US.
Closeted racists/anti-immigration/anti-women folks. A lot of the US are folks from homogeneous communities, with a narrower world view.
Less informed folks who like Trump’s “straight talk”. Or like him on TV.
Middle class / working poor folks who are struggling , and haven’t felt well served by the democrats or republicans. So when Trump says he will force companies to bring jobs back etc… and speaks in sweeping statements that no typical politician would dare say (and won’t happen), it resonates with a lot of folks who feel scared and hopeless.
We do need to help the third group more…. We do….
One problem is that the closeted racists/anti immigration/anti-women folks don’t all think all 3. They may think 1 of the 3 and hearing someone address the one they care about makes them blind to the other two. Then you have 3 people who don’t actually agree with each other, but they end up agreeing with Trump.
The 2nd group are the people that we can – and need to – reach to change their minds. I’ve found that many of them don’t support him when confronted with more facts.
The third group breaks my heart because the Democrats have become so focused on so many social issues (that are completely worthy on their own, of course) that I feel that they’ve forgotten about the middle class/working poor who are still struggling.
Clarifying that my heart breaks for the 3rd group because they feel scared and hopeless, not because the Democrats haven’t focused on them.
We’re all surprised. My assessment is that it’s hugely class- and race-based. Most of his support comes from working class whites who feel they’ve been ignored by both parties. It’s gotten harder and harder for people without college education to get any work, never mind work that lets them clamber into the middle class. Honestly I don’t think those jobs are returning. They aren’t being sent overseas on a whim. Our dominance in manufacturing (the source of these jobs) in the mid-20th century was largely due to Europe being in shambles post-war and Asia not having really come on line yet. There may be other work that develops in some industries that’s suitable for the people who would previously have done work in factories, but that doesn’t mean that a generation or two won’t feel a lot of pain during that transition. While the loss of these jobs has hit working class people of all races, the Democratic party, in particular its most progressive wing, has directly addressed more of the concerns of poor minorities than those of poor whites. Trump says a lot of things that make people in this group feel like someone in power is at last listening to them and taking them seriously. Elite Democrats have dismissed them as hicks who cling to their guns and religion. Elite Republicans have dismissed them by failing to address the economic hardships they’ve faced and by simply leaving them out of the party’s agenda. Even if you believe free trade is ultimately good for the country, you should at least acknowledge the fact that it will cost some people their jobs. Trump makes them feel like they finally have a strong man in their corner who’ll fight for them.
Ultimately I’d be shocked if he won (although I’m shocked he made it this far so…). If I had to put money on it, I’d put lots of money on Clinton. But then many people not only disagree with her but actively hate her, so who knows. It’s a weird, weird election this year.
I also think there are a lot of people who just won’t vote for a woman- it’s unnerving the number of people I know who have said if Bernie doesn’t win, they’re voting Trump. The idea of voting for Clinton makes them more upset than the idea of voting for Trump, which is scary.
Yep. I’d say 75% of the Bernie supporters I know have said they will vote Trump because #NeverClinton. I honestly believe Trump will be the next prez. On the plus side, many long-time mainstream Republicans (including my dad) are thinking about voting for Clinton or at least not voting because they’re horrified by Trump.
Polling shows that it’s actually about a third of Bernie supporters saying they won’t vote for Clinton. That’s less than the number of Clinton supporters who said they wouldn’t vote for Obama. If history is a guide, they will almost all change their minds in the next five months.
G-d I hope so. I guess I know some particularly terrible ones. But I do think Clinton supporters in ’08 were much more strongly identified with the Democratic party than Bernie supporters now, and many more of Bernie’s supporters won’t support the party’s eventual nominee. Hopefully it will be offset by the more moderate Republicans who are appalled by Trump.
My Bernie supporter friends are split on whether they would vote for Clinton, but not a one of them would vote for Trump.
My dad, a longtime Republican, will vote for Clinton or possible Gary Johnson on the Libertarian ticket.
Some of them just won’t vote for a woman. But I don’t think that switch is all due to gender. Sanders and Trump both represent the antiestablishment and no one is more establishment than Clinton. Sanders and Trump supporters are all angry and feel the system is rigged against them. The anger isn’t there among Clinton supporters.
I agree with you, but it’s a little nuts that voting against “the establishment” means voting for a white businessman who has done nothing but profit from “the establishment”
Yes! It’s baffling to me. The overlap between Trump’s platform and Bernie’s platform is…what? Zero? 1-2 issues?
Anti-free trade and anti-establishment. I think a lot of lower class white men who are resentful of jobs going to foreign countries like both Bernie and Trump.
I think TBK hits the nail on the head. The white lower-middle/working class is arguably worse off as a group than it has been in modern history. Manufacturing jobs are few and far between, college education is more of a pre-requisite for work these days, and the narrative that taxes are breaking the middle class resonates with this group.
On top of that, there’s a perception (and likely a reality) that their “power” is also being taken away from them. In a way that’s true, and a good thing, because it means other disenfranchised people have a stronger voice in the system, but they’re equating the improvement of other groups’ social and political power as robbing them of their own.
I think your points about this being such a changing economy for manufacturing and jobs is a good one. Add in some relatively recent shifts in societal acceptance and discussions on equality and I think people tend to blame those movements for causing/worsening some of the economic changes.
People feel disempowered. They feel like the country doesn’t need them anymore and doesn’t care about them anymore. They can’t find jobs to support their families. They lack the status that being well employed gives them (especially men, who’ve been hit especially bad by the lack of manufacturing jobs). They feel like the morals and values they depended on are being trampled. They go to the grocery store and feel alienated by people speaking in other languages. No place feels like home and they don’t seem to matter anymore. Then someone comes and tells them he’s going to give all that back to them, who reflects their anger and despair back at them as strength and determination and #winning! It’s not surprising Trump is doing so well in this group. It’s just too bad no one better sought them out earlier and rallied them around a better, less hateful, more positive and more actually doable agenda.
I’ll add to this with some anec-data. My dad is an upper middle class white man (and an immigrant himself!) whose economic status has not been negatively impacted in the last 8 years (in fact the last true hit he took was to his retirement account during the Great Recession and that account has since come back to or above where it was in ’08). But just the feeling that he is somehow less important than he used to be is enough to make him run into Trump’s waiting arms. Despite not being any worse off in reality, he has been convinced that he either is worse off or will be if things “continue the way they’re going.”
It is H-A-R-D to give up the unearned position on the top of the pecking order. Honestly, even Lovely Fiance was spouting some of that “white men are the most discriminated-against group” garbage before I grabbed him by the shoulders and pointed out how utterly ridiculous and counter-factual that was. Fortunately he came around once he gave it, like, one minute’s thought (and is as horrified by Trump as anyone). But it’s out there, sometimes where you least expect it.
I see a lot of that in my state. My state is above 95% white. There are a lot of rural poor people. The “big” cities in the state were mill towns and factories. Those mills are now white collar lofts or businesses. We are also part of a refugee resettlement program in the two biggest cities in my state. (Just to be clear, I’m 100% in support of the program but I’m just telling it how I hear it from the other side.) The refugees come here not speaking English, have a very hard time assimilating as there are so few minorities in the state to begin with, get all kinds of support services that the poor white folks don’t have access to. It is not about white vs. black for those programs it is refugee vs. non-refugee. The school budget has gone through the roof to accommodate the refugee children (ESL, IEP, Counseling since they are from war torn countries). Then we have people that are criminally involved, disproportionately minorities that are not refugees, and they get services as part of their probation plan or as part of a social services reintegration to get them back with their kids. It has created an us vs. them dynamic where the poor whites see the poor blacks getting more than they are. The rural white poor are also more libertarian and want the gov’t out of their lives. I’m in a very gun friendly state too so there is also a lot of “don’t take my guns” going on. A good portion of the blue collar small business around here (auto mechanics, construction, carpenters) are sporting Trump signs.
Are you in Maine, by any chance?
I think that’s a really good analysis.
I voted for Sanders but will absolutely vote for Clinton if she’s the nominee. I’m (probably naively) shocked at how many people actively hate her. I do know one very educated guy who was very pro-Sanders but refuses to vote for Clinton because of his views on trade. To him, trade issues are more important than what he dislikes Trump for so its looking like he’s going to vote for Trump. He has a thought out rationale for his decision so it’s hard to fault him. I just disagree with his calculus.
I’m so disappointed by the people who refuse to vote for Clinton just because she’s a woman. That’s depressing.
My MIL will not vote for Clinton because she despises Bill Clinton for the whole Lewinsky thing. I keep reminding her that Hillary and Bill are separate people. She just can’t see Bill in the White House again.
My MIL will NOT vote for Trump though. She may change her mind and vote Clinton or do a write in vote or just not vote.
I think Hillary did herself a huge disservice by focusing on how much she would welcome Bill’s help because he is the “idea guy” recently. I couldn’t believe she was saying it. It pushes people like your MIL all the way out.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/05/hillary-clinton-bill-job-white-house-222708
“I’ve told my husband he’s got to come out of retirement and be in charge of this, because you know, he’s got more ideas a minute than anybody I know,” Clinton said, as people smiled and laughed. “Gotta put people back to work and make it happen. So we’re going to give it all we’ve got, absolute full-in 100 percent effort, because I worry we won’t recognize our country if we don’t do this.”
This kind of comment also reinforces the “establishment” hesitations.
I am a senior engineer who manages construction projects in a still struggling rust belt city. I also happen to be a latina and speak accented english.
You have no idea how much racist anti-woman sh!t I deal with every day. I am not your boss because of affirmative action, I am your boss because I worked my @ss off and put my self through college and grad school.
Pretty much everyone I work with has a trump sticker on their car. It’s seriously depressing.
And for the record. I’m Puerto Rican. It’s part of America. I am a citizen and this is my country of origin.
I love my City and genuinely enjoy my job much of the time but sometimes it is profoundly upsetting. I try to remind myself that I am on the front line of change and it’s not going to be this bad for my children.
I don’t know you, but reading this made me emotional. It’s not your responsibility to teach people to be open and accepting, but it sounds like you’re confronting stereotypes and making it easier for your children to follow in your footsteps. Keep on doing you!
You’re amazing and inspiring and I really believe this country will be a better place by the time your children are working.
Amen to this. You are an inspiration.
They believe Trump “will fight for them”? Wow. The same Trump whose pride and joy – Trump Towers – was built on the backs of European illegal immigrants who were grossly underpaid and working under extremely hazardous conditions? The sheer irony of it all is remarkable.
Interesting.
I think it’s partly due to our sick celebrity-obsessed, selfie-loving culture that has allowed people like Kim Kardashian to become famous for nothing. I personally think Trump is a way worse person than most pseudo-celebrities because of his racist, misogynistic rhetoric (I would much rather Kim K be President, even though she has no qualifications and is probably equally dumb, because she’s much less hateful), but I think there’s a huge part of our country that loves seeing people who are obsessed with themselves become famous for nothing, and that’s feeding into his popularity. I also think the people who support him are almost uniformly uneducated. Aside from his hateful ideas and his narcissism, the man is just obviously incredibly dumb (“we’re going to win bigly”), and I think only people who aren’t very educated don’t see that.
What will happen if he wins the presidency? Nuclear war in about three minutes, after some foreign leader makes fun of his small hands. I’m genuinely scared about the future of the world and have had it up to my eyeballs with people (Bernie bros) who think Hillary and Trump are equally evil.
+1,000,000
A Trump presidency truly scares me.
The most entertaining post I read on this subject today…(I’m still laughing.)
Loving this entire post “bigly,”
-CM :-)
Funniest thing I read today.(I’m still laughing…Laughing “bigly.”) :-)
Who will be his running mate?
A career politician from a swing state. I think he would love to land Kasich because no Republican has won the White House w/o Ohio, but I think (and sincerely hope!!) Kasich wouldn’t agree to do it.
Jan Brewer?
I suspect an attractive woman so he can say “see, I love women!”
I love women. I have many friends who are women. Many friends, believe me. And women love me. They love me. You will see. When I am president the women will love me.
ha ha
The scary part about this is that …. he is dictating that “the women will love me”. Well, the missing part is … that they **will** …. or else… That’s what scares me.
I too suspect it will be a woman so he can say “I love women! Women love me!” But as one of the many articles about his issues with women pointed out, that’s exactly it. He loves women so long as they’re working under him and he’s the boss. Talk to me when you’re happy taking direction from a woman, Trump.
Carly Fiorina. JK, I’m sure she wouldn’t do it. But wouldn’t it be hilarious if she were Ted Cruz’s “running mate” and then Trump’s actual running mate?
Chris Christie.
That would have been my first guess too, although NJ isn’t a swing state and apparently there were some polls done (maybe just in Jersey) that show Christie would hurt him way more than help. I’m 100% sure that’s what Christie was angling for with the early endorsement, but I think Trump has smart people around him who will press him to make a more strategic pick, most likely a woman. Trump’s also been talking a lot about how important “rapport” is with his VP and it’s pretty clear he doesn’t have a great personal relationship with Christie (between Christie’s hostage eyes and Trump’s hot mic comment to him to get on a plane and go home).
Poor Chris Christie. He sold his soul for nothing…
(His wife is my new best friend, though, with her behind-Donald’s-back eye-rolling!)
Don Jr., but only because he can’t pick himself.
Two things
In terms of social liberties, middle class whites, particularly men, see the gains made by other groups as losses to them, as if this is a zero sum game.
In terms of economics, the same group has come around to the fact that the traditional republican approach has not helped them at all. They’re not wrong. They wouldn’t go as far as voting for a democrat because they still buy into the right wing conservatism on social liberties, but Trump promises to do more for them economically. I personally don’t beleive he will, but this is the selling point.
+1,000,000
Many of these people used to be conservative Democrats. They were union voters.
I don’t think there is a way to address those white middle class males without making any backward progress. Even acknowledging that yeah, when women and minorities have an equal chance at getting professional jobs as you, you might have to work a little harder to get one of those slots, isn’t going to go so well. I don’t mean affirmative action either. I mean, if a law school is accepting 300 students and when it was mostly white men as attorneys maybe 1000 students applies. Now women and minorities feel they can apply too and applications are up to 2000 and the best 300 still get in. Cutting out some white middle class males that would have got in before. I think the problem is people support progressive change until it starts negatively effecting them. You would likely be happy to hear your boss was giving your coworker a raise, unless your boss said that meant you couldn’t get a raise. I think innately, humans are inherently selfish and few will put themselves in a worse position even if it means helping others.
People also stop supporting progressive change when they perceive loss of privilege, whether that loss is actually true or not.
The 70 cents on the dollar earnings gap between the sexes had remained steady for decades, and yet, female wage parity still meets insurmountable resistance across the board, especially in traditionally “male-dominated” fields…Women in the workforce are welcomed to join, bUT must be prepared for the wage gap. Ibterestingly, I wonder if Kaitlyn Jenner has worn dresses and heels long enough also sign up for the wage discount inherent in being a “she.”
People also stop supporting progressive change when they perceive loss of privilege, whether that loss is actually true or not.
The 70 cents on the dollar earnings gap between the sexes had remained steady for decades, and yet, female wage parity still meets insurmountable resistance across the board, especially in traditionally “male-dominated” fields…Women in the workforce are welcomed to join, BUT must be prepared for the wage gap. Interestingly, I wonder if Kaitlyn Jenner has worn dresses and heels long enough also sign up for the wage discount inherent in being a “she.”
Meant to add: that supposition that the accepted women/minorities are in spots that otherwise would have gone to a white male is precisely one of the examples of the danger of unearned or perceived privilege.
What if those applicants were just qualified applicants who ended up in the spot that would have gone to another woman or minority? Why is the assumption that a white male lost that spot? (Not a question I’m firing at you, but the privileged sap who would assume a gain by someone who *doesn’t* look like him is a loss against all who do.)
That’s the danger of privilege, especially when it is unearned. Anyone else’s gains, whether by genuine success or any other means, is read as a “loss” to holder of said privilege.
The unspoken narrative is “only WE belong here.” Well, that doesn’t look to promising alongside the adage that “anyone has the opportunity to, and can, make it, with determination, hard work, and preparation,” does it? (*side eye*)
Doesn’t look *too*;promising. As Trump would say, my smartphone’s AutoCorrect often embarrasses me “bigly.” Lol.
I am so, so scared about this. Anyone who thinks he can’t win hasn’t been paying attention to history. This is a frightening time.
A question based on this morning’s thread: what constitutes a will? DH and I have a house, no kids, no debt apart from nominal auto loans and a mortgage – we are jointly on all of those. When we have kids we’ll go through the whole process, but until then is there any reason to have anything in writing/signed? I’m in Mass. Can we just whip something up and sign it with a witness in the meantime as a make shift one?
Looks pretty easy in Mass: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/massachusetts-make-will-31818.html
Well, shoot – it’s really that easy. Thanks, SA!
I have one, with what appears to be little reason (unmarried, no children, very young). When I had one put together another reason I heard was that having it clearly stipulated can help prevent loss to administrative costs in the process should there be any dispute or challenges distributing my assets. I did it at the same time as my Power of Attorney/Health Care Directive, which mattered a lot more to me. It was an easy process.
Nice choice, Kat. I love the Art Deco vibe of the whole collection.
How do you cope when you hate your job? I have good coworkers, but management and the work itself is so awful I literally want to quit in a fiery storm of rage every day. I exercise, I meditate, I drink wine, but SERIOUSLY. I’m working on finding something else, but it’s going to be a couple months. Tips for surviving until then?
When I was in my OldJob, I was job hunting for what seemed like forever. Eventually, I let slip to my closest work friend that I was unhappy and looking. So was she! After that, we supported and encouraged each other. And it was good to know that I wasn’t the only one there who thought conditions were worsening by the day. I would not have survived my final few months there without her.
This is a continual struggle for me. I can’t offer too much advice, but I can commiserate with the feeling of being stuck in a bad place.
I posted about a month ago about being disengaged at work. My job hunt continues on, but I’m in a niche area and oppourtunities are slow to materialize. Meg Murray offered great encouragement. Meg, if you’re reading – thank you!
I’m sorry. It sounds like you are already turning to good coping mechanisms. I’ve been there too and tried a million things to stay sane. Here are a few ideas.
– Make yourself focus on one thing at a time. Even if you don’t like what you’re doing, staying busy helps the time go faster and gets you into a different head space.
– Contrary to that, take little breaks in the day that make you feel like you’re giving something back to yourself. Go for a walk at lunch. Listen to a funny podcast. Text a friend funny complaints about your day. Be more social even if you don’t feel like it.
– Think about how much you make per hour. Think about what you would lose if you didn’t have a job (health insurance, community, sense of security, etc.) Picture yourself applying for unemployment or taking a typing test at a temp agency, or explaining to random people you meet that you don’t currently have a job when they ask “what do you do?” and be grateful you don’t have to do that today.
– Listen to music as you work.
– Learn a new skill that will help increase your marketability.
– Accept people as they are. Management sucks. You probably can’t change that. Let it go. Then let it go again when it upsets you again.
Good luck. Hope you find something better soon. The world needs fewer miserable people.
Recs for dog obedience training in NOVA? I adopted an adult dog who’s afraid of everything, and he needs better training and socialization. I’m also looking for the most affordable option, as I’m on a pretty limited budget.
The Friends of the Fairfax County Animal Shelter should be able to hell with a rec. here is their FB page https://www.facebook.com/FFCAS/
Shoot them a message.
*help
Sigh
I’ve had great luck with Fur Get Me Not in Arlington (right near the Shirlington dog park). I adopted my dog when she was a tiny puppy (8 weeks), and she was afraid of everything. We did several types of classes there (puppy socialization and the levels training), and she’s much better. She’s still afraid of big objects, ladders, boxes, and strangely bubble wrap, but I credit them with a lot of her success. Good luck!
On a lighter note– I’m going to be a summer associate at a large firm in a secondary market (i.e. not NYC, Chi, LA). I’m trying to put together my wardrobe and I think I’m pretty set on (4 suits, twin sets, sheath dresses, separate blazers, button downs, heels), but I have a question: I like having bright red nail polish on. It’s always manicured and fairly short (my real nails, Shellac). Is red inappropriate for the office? Too sexy? My career services lady (who is old and out of touch) says that it is. My look is otherwise conservative, but I am young and fit and I want people to take me seriously. Thoughts?
I personally wouldn’t wear it as a summer associate, at least in the beginning, and my firm is fairly relaxed (now as I senior associate I wear whatever nail polish color I want). I suggest don’t wear it for your first week and get a feel for the place first. See what the established associates do. If everyone is going with neutrals, then stick to that for the summer weekdays.
Disagree and I think you are over thinking it. If you’re not rocking Elvira long nails, I think red is effectively a neutral nail color. If everything else is conservative, you’re just fine. But if you feel better with a paler pink first week, then go for it.
I’d wait to see what the other associates are wearing on their nails. In 80% of the offices I’ve been in, red nails are OK. In the remaining 20%, you’d be forever known as Anonymous-with-the-red-nails.
First impressions matter. I’d go with light pink for the first week and then make a decision.
I worked in a biglaw satellite office in a conservative city, and no one would bat an eye at red fingernail polish. Perhaps not week 1 (I try to dress interview appropriate the first week of a job), but week 2+ it would be fair game.
Thanks, all! I’m going to go for light pink the first week (that’s what I wore for my interview) then back to red.
Can anyone recommend a day spa in Arlington, MA with great massages? TIA
Is there a way to remove underarm sweat stains from a white silk blouse? came home from work last night too exhausted to notice and soaked it only this morning but the yellow circles are not going away. (used to think I don”t sweat)….
it’s probably the deodorant leaving the color! I used to have this problem with white shirts, every time, I thought it was me, then I read up on it. Nivea ‘black and white’ deodorant works like a charm, it’s amazing; I wear white dress shirts all the time, no stains. it’s only sold in stores in europe, but you can buy it on amazon in the US. Sorry no recs on fixing the stain! straight to the dry cleaner?