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Stripes are always fun, especially in a lightweight, breezy sweater for summer.
I really like all three colorways the sweater is offered in — this pink and coral might be my favorite, but I also love the white and blue and aqua and navy. (The latter two have a third color for the rolled neck; the white and blue is also on sale for regular sizes, and while not on sale, is available in plus sizes also.)
The sweater is $74 on sale, $148 full price.
Psst: Friendly reminder that if you bought stuff during the big Prime Day Amazon sales and want to return it, today may be your last day…
Sales of note for 9.16.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 30% off wear-now styles
- J.Crew Factory – (ends 9/16 PM): 40% off everything + extra 70% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Extra 25% off all tops + markdowns
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
Anonymous
Something really weird is going on with this site. When I first open it, I get what looks like a fake page with a redirect to a scammy drug site. If I reload I get the actual page.
Kat G
If you get a chance could you take a screencapture and please send it to me? A few other people were saying that and I have no idea what’s going on… many thanks!! kat at corporette dot com
Anonymous
Done! And thanks for providing this discussion space for all of us.
Kat G
Is it maybe a “Google Vignette”? A big square ad that takes over the entire front page? I’ve been meaning to look into those because they seem to come up all the time for me. The ads vary though.
Anonymous
I don’t think so. The tab name refers to a pharmaceutical product. It’s like someone’s DNS server was hijacked or something.
Nora
Sent! It’s going to a different URL too, it’s not just an ad
NYS
Yes, I’m getting that ad, too, along with a redirect to an external site through Google/Safari on my iPhone. It only affects the top layers of the site, like an initial click on a recent post. It’s not connected to sublinks (web professional here).
Anon Anon Anon
I have experienced the same thing. It only seems to happen on Google.
Anon
Are you googling the name of the site or typing it directly into the URL bar?
Anonymous
Typing it in.
Anonymous
what is your favorite casual tee shirt? looking for an opaque dark black, not crew neck (scoop or V), not too clingy, hip length, sleeves… thanks! i’m usually an XL in t-shirts
Anon
Gap organic cotton tee.
Anon
BRF also has some good basic tees in a variety of colors.
Anonymous
Rag and Bone slub vee.
Anon
I am a size 14 and have a size L BRF v-neck that is cotton-heavy, comfortable and opaque but faded and pilled quickly in the wash. I have an Old Navy size L that is almost identical, except it is made with rayon and has not faded nor pilled with the same treatment and wear. Both are TTS and fitted but not clingy. I got them at the end of last summer so hopefully the current versions are still similar.
Anon
James Perse scoop neck. They drape like a dream and wear like iron. I buy one every year or so, whenever I see them on sale at Nordstrom Rack or Saks Off 5th, and I still have the original ones I bought 10 years ago. I’m currently an XL and wear their largest size, a 4. I still fit in some of my older 3’s, because they are stretchy, but for my taste I like they to skim the body, not be super tight.
Anon
Rag and bone crew neck, quince swing tee
Anonymous
I belatedly read the thread on the poster who wanted to move to India for a boyfriend who wanted a year or more to think about DTR and was horrified, as a non-privileged, patriarchy-affected Indian.
I hope the OP realises that her BF’s wealthy family dynamics mean that they will never give up the opportunity of a multimillion dollar dowry for an arranged bride and they’re only tolerating her as a passing fancy. Kept women and bigamy/polygamy are extremely common and tolerated across all social strata (the law is very loosely defined and never enforced anyway).
I suspect the OP is going to go ahead and can only wish her luck and succour.
Anon NYC
I posted late to that thread. The OP previously posted about this situation. I think everyone agrees she should run ASAP. I mean break up with him tonight! This will not end well for her unless she is only interested in money because that’s all he has to offer anyone.
Anon
The original post was even more horrifying than the one yesterday. She mentioned the BF having a very high sex drive and “joking” about cheating. Honestly, I think it’s made up.
Anonymous
I’m the 2.30PM OP. I recall the first post very well and had responded with my concerns only to be shouted down by a couple people of extremely privileged and blind Indian (-Americans or nationals) who refused to acknowledge the ground realities
Anon
Yeah I’m Indian-American and was called racist for saying India is a more patriarchal society than the US. It’s literally a term used to describe India on Wikipedia!
Anon
I’m not Indian-American in the sense you describe (I’m native!) but I have a white friend who married a wealthy Indian man. They had two kids here, all four of them went to “visit” his family in India, and then his (wealthy, well-connected) family decided he and the kids were staying in India forever.
They didn’t really give a flip about my friend, the kids’ mother.
It took a huge international legal battle to get her kids back to the US. She had no rights in India.
Just based on her experience, I would never do what OP of the other post is thinking about doing.
True
I don’t think I would have believed your story 5:05 except that I know a white American woman whose Indian in-laws refuse to let her touch anything in the house when she is menstruating and they ask about when that is. If she touches something, the maid / cleaners wash it – twice. True story, when they visit India and when they visit the atlanta suburb where their son is a consultant
Anon
Yeah I’ve heard of similar things happening too, including to Indian-American women.
Anon.
Accusing people of making things up is so obnoxious and invalidating. Stop it.
Anon
+1
anon
Even without the cultural issues, which she seems very naive about, this guy does not sound like a catch. If somebody told me, “I need a year to commit to deciding whether you’re the one,” I would run for the hills.
Anon
Yep, for me, that would be the issue. Never mind moving to another continent, don’t be with someone who needs 2 1/2 years (minimum) to decide whether he can commit to you. (For context, they’ve been together 1.5 years but he says he needs another year to decide. Her wording: He’s committing to deciding. WTF)
Anon
Exactly. There are strong reasons for her to GTFO before you even get to cultural compatibility or moving across the world.
Senior Attorney
No kidding. That’s enough of a red flag right there for me to DTMFA.
Anonymous
Agreed! Youth is precious. I would not waste time with that.
Anon
I just really hope she doesn’t get pregnant…
Anon
Me too. Big “Not Without My Daughter” vibes. (And, no, not because India is similarly oppressive to Iran, but because citizen parents *always* have huge advantages over non-citizen parents. In the US too.)
Anonymous
Oh my gosh. I can’t stop thinking about that poor girl. She is so in love and willing to leave everything. Meanwhile, he committed to “deciding” !! He’s UNDECIDED. What makes these sweet bright women ask so little of men. It kills me. Is it all the romance novels out there warping perception? Is it because he’s rich? Because he doesn’t want her and you always want what you can’t have? Is it low self esteem? I really hope she doesn’t make an epic mistake and follow that jerk.
Anon
Yeah she’s in an imaginationship
Anonymous
Never heard this term before but spot on in this case unfortunately.
Anonymous
Imaginationship: An imaginary relationship that someone makes up in their head because they are secretly very deeply in love with someone else.
Anonny
As someone who has only lived in southern states, the idea of a summer sweater is hilarious. Kinda like talk about fall starting soon when we have at least 6 more weeks of summer. And I suppose that’s how other people feel when we start pulling out our shorts and flip flops in mid-March.
Anon
Yes! I feel sticky just looking at this picture.
Anon
I don’t think summer sweaters work in most of the US, except for offices with strong AC. I live in the upper Midwest which is much less hot and humid than the south but they don’t work with our local climate either. I do wear sweaters on the beach in Maine though, and honestly a sweater + shorts beach day is one of my favorite things.
Anonymous
I grew up in California and now live in the SEUS. I’ve recently been spending time in CA for work and rediscovered that it cools off overnight there during the summer, so you may actually need a light summer sweater like this one in the evening and morning. In the SEUS it’s just hot and muggy and awful all summer long.
Anonymous
Yes. I had to bundle up at night on the beach in San Diego in August. It was lovely.
Anon
“except for offices with strong AC”
Well, that’s pretty much universal.
Anon
Right, I didn’t mean it’s not common, I just meant you wouldn’t be able to wear this outside even in the upper Midwest.
Legit
But don’t you commute there
Anonymous
I live in San Francisco. I don’t need summer sweaters: I just am still wearing my wool sweaters. It’s cold here year round!
Anon
Yep. I wore a down coat to the Oakland Ballers game last night. Or I brought it along and put it on around 7:30. And was really glad I’d brought it!
anon
I live in the Midwest and they don’t work here, either. It’s too humid. I can see how they’d be awesome in drier climates but I shudder thinking of wearing sweaters anytime soon.
Gail the Goldfish
Right?! Like I walked outside last night and it was 70 and I thought to myself, “Oh, feels like Fall!” Because Fall means jeans and a short sleeve shirt, not a sweater. Heck, winter barely means sweater.
Anon
I would and do wear something like this in 70 degree weather.
Anonymous
Same. I always want to feel “cozy.”
Anon
Leaves are already starting to change here along the Montana hi-line!
Anon
I’m in the Bay Area (inner) and was just thinking this sweater looked perfect.
Anonymous
I’m in a humid part of the midwest and wear sweaters daily because I’m freezing inside — I think a summer sweater is something that you can run outside in without looking stupid. i.e. not a wool winter sweater.
also if i’m near the lake at night, or just out in the evening i often bring a sweater.
Anon
My office is so cold I’ve been dressing like it’s fall all summer.
Anon
I’m wearing a blouse with a cardigan right now. Maybe I’d be too hot if I decided to go for a hike right this minute, but most offices do not feel like summer weather.
Anonymous
Heh, yep. We have snow in March, and I’m wearing a summer sweater today.
Anonymous
In the west where the heat is dry it cools down substantially at night. It could be 30 degrees cooler at night so sweaters like this are useful.
Anon
Speaking of DVF wrap dresses, is it wrong that I actually kind of like this and wish I had $558 to spend on a random dress?
https://www.dvf.com/products/dvf-luella-midi-dress-in-dvf-50th-cross-word-ivory-med
Anon
Oh man, I’m a daily NYT crossword solver (as well as the mini) and I believe this dress is made for me? But I would be the only one thinking it looks cool, I’m afraid.
Anon
We would both think it looks cool. Maybe there are other people out there?
Anon
We will recognize each other on the street and high five.
Anon
Maybe if no one else likes it, we can snag it on deep, deep discount.
Anon
Could I interest you in the PJs instead?
https://www.katespade.com/products/crossword-puzzle-long-pj-set/KS92712.html
Anon
Yes. Yes you could.
Jules
LOVE these!
Anon
This is fantastic and I hope the universe sends you a spare $558 so you can rock it.
Anon
Awww, thank you. :)
Senior Attorney
Oh man! That’s great! If you have $475 to spend, note that when you go to the site a popup offers you 15% off your first purchase…
Runcible
Super cute dress for the thinking woman! But (not to rain on your parade) beware of DVF v-neck wrap’s neckline — it can be excessively deep and plunging. Make sure it is returnable, just in case!
Anonymous
That will be on sale in no time LOL.
Megmegmeg
I know I am overthinking this, but I am having a small group of friends over tomorrow night (2 vegetarians, and a meat-eating family that includes a 20 year old boy, so large appetite is assumed). I was going to go basic and just grill veggie & regular burgers, but the forecast now includes thunderstorms and my grill is uncovered. Anyone have any great ideas for me? The only thought I have now is a taco salad bar, but would like to do something more interesting. Still getting back into the groove of entertaining post covid, and the shift from an easy backyard BBQ that I had planned is throwing me for a loop. Thanks!
Anon
Order pizzas.
Anon
I would be so happy with a taco salad bar, no joke. Could also be a nacho bar.
Or you could cook the burgers and roast the veggies inside before folks arrive and stay with basically the same plan.
Anonymous
Cook the burgers indoors on a skillet as smashburgers.
Not a diner
Yes but also cook something that smells good after the burgers if you cook the burgers in a skillet so the place doesn’t smell like a diner
Anon
I love diner smells!
anon
a hearty coconut milk curry, like summer veggies, potato, and chickpea could be a crowd pleaser. I’d serve with naan, raita or yogurt, nuts, banana, and raisins and mango lassi to drink. if meat is a must, chicken satay with peanut sauce on the side.
Anons
Check with your guests. Curry is polarizing, I wouldn’t call it a crowd pleaser. Indoor burgers are easy to cook but spatter a lot of grease, while taco bars require so much chopping. It’s a choice between cleanup on the front end or after your party. I agree with the other poster to order a few pizzas and salads, and maybe set out a charcuterie board and fruit as appetizers.
Anon
Agree. I love it, but some of the people in my circle wouldn’t even consider it.
Anonymous
This sounds lovely. But I would not do for entertaining unless you have a sense of food preference. Indian food is one where people either love or won’t touch. And they want it really spicy or not at all spicy. Just a lot of ways to go wrong. For some reason, it seems to be more polarizing than a lot of other cuisines.
Anonymous
bean salad for the vegetarians?
emeralds
A taco bar sounds great!
You could also do a big thing of veggie pasta and offer slices of Italian sausage on the side for those who wanted to add them.
Anonymous
Crockpot pulled chicken (chicken thighs rubbed with BBQ seasoning and covered with BBQ sauce, 6 hours on low) plus veggie burgers cooked on the stovetop or on the oven.
Anon
Another check with guests. I’m vegetarian and I don’t eat veggie burgers. I don’t like anything trying to imitate meat, because I don’t like the taste and consistency of meat.
Anon
I’m a vegetarian and it really depends on the veggie burger. I love black bean burgers, but they are increasingly hard to find in a world of Impossible burgers and such. Agree that anything that looks and tastes like meat is just… no.
Anon
Also a vegetarian and feel the same way about Impossible Burgers etc., but I don’t actually think that most veggie burgers resemble meat. Most are made of vegetables or beans, though they don’t always do all that well on an outdoor grill.
It’s actually the worst thing about the rise of meat substitutes. It used to be that most casual restaurants that served sandwiches and burgers had a black bean burger or portobello sandwich or something similar on the menu. These days so many have just switched to offering an Impossible Burger, with no other vegetarian options, so our family no longer goes to that kind of place much anymore, even though I’m the only vegetarian.
As for OP, bean or pasta salads or taco bar all sound good.
Anonymous
I totally agree about the fake meat! I think the rise of fake meat was intended to lure carnivores away from meat, but neither carnivores nor veggie-lovers actually like it so all it does is reduce options. I am discouraged by the lack of delicious black bean, mushroom, etc. burger options on restaurant menus and in the freezer case lately.
Anonymous
Shouldn’t grill anyway. I’m a vegetarian and love all types of veggie burgers but not if they’re being grilled next to meat.
Anon
I love the idea of a taco bar. It sounds easier to make it vegetarian friendly, too, than meat burgers and grilled veggies.
anon
Variation on a taco bar is a build your own pita bar: chicken, falafel, chickpeas and hummus, taziki, cucumbers, tomatoes, olives, etc. I do this sometimes with a rotisserie chicken which makes it is so EASY!
Anon
Taco bar is perfect.
And throw an easy batch of Ghiradelli brownies in the oven. Takes 5 minutes.
You will be a star, and everyone will be happy.
Megmegmeg
thank you all! I think I’ll go with taco bar but make sure I have some beans and squash filling options, and I found a couple of sauce/salsa recipes that are a little more flavorful so there’s something a little unexpected.
Anonymous
If you want to be extra, you can recreate the Choco Taco for dessert! I did something like this with my son – pretty easy once you get the shell-molding step figured out. https://www.heinens.com/recipes/homemade-choco-tacos/
Senior Attorney
In situations like this I have done a chili bar with toppings — one crockpot with meat chili, one crockpot with veggie chili, and things like sour cream, grated cheese, tortilla chips, green onions, and so on for people to put on top.
US vs UK prices
Does anyone know if some brands are significantly cheaper in London than in the US? I live in the midwest and I am here for work next 4 days and was considering a trip to Bicester village. However, I am wondering if the even the EU/UK brands are cheaper in US during end of seasons sale. Particularly thinking of mid-range to lower end of high range bags and shoes. Welcome any insights and tips!
Anon
The higher end brands (Hermes, Dior, Gucci, etc.) are a bit cheaper in the UK plus you get the VAT back. For brands that don’t do sales this is likely the only discount you’ll get so it makes sense to buy oversees. Otherwise, no, it’s generally cheaper to buy in the US given that many of the same brands are sold here (LK Bennet, Hobbs, etc.) and will offer sales to US customers.
Anon
I’m not sure you do get VAT back anymore. I certainly got no break at the Heathrow duty free this past Spring.
Cat
Duty free doesn’t charge tax to begin with…
Anon
I just remember there was a sale on something I was buying (so two prices) and I got charged the higher price. I didn’t realize it until I got home and did some reading that they repealed some tax benefit that travelers usually get.
Anon
My one and only (still unworn) Hermes scarf was from duty free at CDG! It was a great deal compared to US pricing.
NY CPA
You’re correct. The UK no longer offers VAT refunds or duty free shopping. The Heathrow duty free store charges about the same prices as all UK shops.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevinrozario/2024/02/22/londons-heathrow-airport-blames-removal-of-tax-free-shopping-for-lackluster-retail-numbers-in-2023/
NY CPA
Not bags or shoes, but in case you’re interested, Barbour jackers are definitely cheaper in the UK, especially when you consider the additional cost in the US for sales tax. You can save about $50, maybe a bit more.
Anonymous
I would look for stores of LK Bennett (shoes are supposed to be amazing), Hobbs, The Fold, maybe Boden too.
If you’re curvy definitely go bra shopping!! Tons of big cup small band bras available. I’ve always been partial to Karen Millen stores in real life.
Thomas Pink if you like button front shirts
Anon
Change my mind – in the U.S., aging parents should not expect their kids to provide elder care for more than 20 hours per week, for their kids to provide advanced medical and personal care without training, for their kids to move to where they live, or for their kids to finance a home or a senior community. Obviously there are lots of cases where the kids may want to do those things or have the full capacity to do them without jeopardizing their own careers/family lives, but to EXPECT it as a matter of right doesn’t sit right with me. I will always help my family (I already do), but I won’t bury myself/neglect my health, quit my job, or harm my marriage/kids to be the sole provider. Am I alone here?
Anon
I think there is way more nuance than you’re allowing for. My family works differently than yours, and that’s okay. My mom devoted her life to me and my brother. We don’t know yet what kind go support she will need, but I hope she knows that she can expect for me to care for her in whatever ways she needs and I am able as she ages. That’s my privilege. That’s what my faith calls on me to do. That’s what she deserves.
Anon
You do you.
Anon
It’s great if it’s what you want to do and what you feel able to do. I don’t think anyone is arguing against that.
Anon
Yeah I don’t think anyone is saying it’s bad if the kid wants to do it. The problem is the parents expecting it.
Anon
But what’s the alternative if they need the help? Lecturing them about the last 70 years of their lives about how they should have saved more or invested better? If they have the means to care for themselves—great! If they don’t, will you let them down?
Sometimes family means sucking it up and doing what you don’t want to do.
Anon
Sometimes I get the impression that commenters believe we’re put on this earth to be as selfish as possible. We’re actually meant to put the needs of others before our own, especially the needs of those who raised us, assuming they weren’t otherwise terrible to us.
Anon
@3:32. It’s not about being selfish, and that’s a really weird framing to me. Once you marry and have children your spouse and kid(s) if they exist are your family and should be a higher priority than your family of origin. I realize in certain cultures that’s not true, but I would never marry someone from a culture that elevates family of origin over spouse and kids. It’s unfair to your spouse and children to uproot them to serve your parents.
Also assuming both sets of parents are alive and expect your help, which do you pick? You can’t live in two places at once. Having parents move to you seems more fair to everyone and allows adult children to be caregivers for both sets of parents.
Anon
Agree with 3:28. It’s one thing to take a theoretical absolute position on an anonymous board but in real life, most of us would want our parents not to end up on the street, even if they made poor decisions in planning for their later lives.
Anon
Agree with 3:28. It’s one thing to take a theoretical absolute position on an anonymous board but in real life, most of us would want our parents not to end up on the street, even if they made poor decisions in planning for their later lives.
Anon
If they don’t have savings and need extensive care, they may need to go into assisted living covered by Medicaid. I don’t think they can expect kids to sell their own homes or jeopardize retirement or anything as significant as that.
Anon
Yeah, my in-laws are terrible with money so DH & I have discussed this pretty extensively. We plan to keep them off the streets as long as we’re able to do so without destroying our own savings. But we won’t sabotage our own retirement or the kids’ college savings to do so – that would really harm our own kids. At the point at which we can’t comfortably afford their care while saving for retirement and college, which will probably happen as soon as they need any kind of assisted living, they’ll go on Medicaid and go into whatever facility Medicaid will pay for. It’s not “selfless” to ruin ourselves financially trying to get them into a marginally better facility, it’s robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Anon
Hey 4:08 Assisted living is not covered by Medicaid. Nor Medicare. Skilled nursing is, ie a nursing home. But not assisted living.
Anon
It depends on the state. Many states have assisted living waivers that defray the costs of assisted living – you have to look up what’s available in your state. Not all assisted living facilities accept Medicaid though.
Anon
Assisted living is covered by Medicaid for people who are truly bankrupt. The facilities that accept it tend not to be as good as the facilities that don’t, but there are options. Correct that Medicare (available to everyone over 65) only covers temporary skilled nursing, not assisted living.
Anon
Medicaid does not cover the “room and board” part of Assisted Living in the vast majority of circumstances. There are waiver programs you can apply to, which vary by state, but it’s far from universal. Medicaid will often cover things like toileting assistance and administration of medication, but the room and board part of assisted living tends to be the big dollars. It’s definitely not a good plant to assume it will cover room and board.
I have lived this!
Anon
There are filial responsibility laws on the books in, I think, 18 states. How the laws are enforced varies by jurisdiction and circumstance. But if your plan is to let your parent become indigent, please research what that may entail for you, financially.
Anon
Actually, correction, it’s 30 states with filial responsibility laws. But it has never been enforced in 11 states, I’ve read. I understand Pennsylvania is most likely to enforce the laws.
How this usually comes into play is after the parent dies, the state may pursue the adult children to recover past public spending on the deceased parent. As costs of public programs increase due to our aging population and increasing costs of medical care (not to mention the growing divide between the haves and have-nots), states are increasingly looking to their filial responsibility statutes as a potential future resource to ease budgetary strain.
Anon
“Once you marry and have children your spouse and kid(s) if they exist are your family and should be a higher priority than your family of origin.” Personally, I’m glad I didn’t grow up or marry into a family that has this hierarchal structure. I feel like I benefitted a lot from seeing the way my parents cared for their parents. I also experienced really close relationships with my grandparents as a result. It didn’t just go one way either. I remember being so confused by the concept of orphans as a kid because I could always name at least 10 relatives who I could move in with if necessary. I’m not saying this is for everyone or is desirable for everyone, but I just wanted to push back on the not idea that the model you describe is necessarily the way things “should” be. It’s wonderful that there is so many ways for families to me. I’m glad that my mom doesn’t have to worry about whether I will take care of her. That probably sounds like expectation to some people. I’m glad I could be with my dad during his terminal illness. I’m glad my nieces and nephews and my cousin’s children know/expect they would have a home with us if something happened to their parents.
Anon
I said this and my parents cared for their parents at end of life too – my mom very dutifully and painfully when her mom suffered from dementia for nearly a decade. That’s not incompatible with what I said. You can care for and love your parents, without prioritizing them above your own spouse and children. It’s also not incompatible with children being close to grandparents – my daughter sleeps at my parents’ house every week and is as close to them as I can imagine a child being. They’re basically third and fourth parents to her, which I think is wonderful, but at the end of the day, no they are not on the same level for me as my spouse and children. I love them profoundly, but my spouse and children are more important at this stage of my life.
I never said this is how things ‘should’ be and you’re putting words in my mouth — I said that this is my family culture and what I wanted for my own family, and I sought out a spouse with the same attitude. I do think it’s the norm among white Americans, realizing that many other cultures are different.
Anon
You literally used the word “should.” And I’m not saying the way you do things is wrong at all. All I’m saying that the hierarchal model isn’t necessarily the better model. Better for you maybe, and that’s fine.
Anon
Maybe you don’t get to decide what other people choose to do.
Anon
Right – parents don’t get to decide what their kids choose to do.
Anon
I can’t figure out who you’re fighting, but you’re clearly itching for it. Take a walk. Get some air.
Anon
I can’t figure out who you’re fighting, but you’re clearly itching for it. Take a walk. Get some air.
Anon
Of course your parents shouldn’t expect that of you.
Anon
I fully agree and I’m someone who’s probably closer to my parents and more “enmeshed” with them than 99% of white Americans.
Anon
LOLOL so brave to post this super controversial opinion in a place where this discussion happens regularly and literally nobody argues against what you’re saying.
Anon
I think there’s a middle ground. I feel like I owe my parents a reasonable level of involvement in their lives, increasingly so the closer they live to me, and we plan to keep my in-laws off the streets after they run out of money, but “you hate your parents if you won’t uproot your lives and move to them, kids and careers be damned” is quite a take.
Anon
I think it’s a take that’s mostly reactive to the commenters who seem to believe they owe their parents nothing.
Probably most people are willing to keep their family members off the street to the extent that they can afford to.
Anon
There was definitely someone on the morning thread who said those responding “don’t move” all hate our parents. I realize different cultures have different norms but I definitely don’t hate my parents; I love them very much and extremely close to them and I wouldn’t move to them. They also would be horrified if I proposed that. They know my husband and have virtually non-existent career opportunities in their small Midwest town and it would be a terrible decision for us to move there. We have a family culture of kids moving away for college and to chase career opportunities and adults moving to be near at least one of their kids when grandkids arrive or when they start needing more care. My grandparents did, my parents did, and I will for my own kids. It’s not everyone’s culture, I get that, but it’s not inherently better or worse than the reverse.
Anon
No one said that. That’s how you interpreted it.
Anon
Literally someone said that….
“OP please keep in mind that a healthy percentage of people who post here actually hate their parents.” https://corporette.com/old-navy-pull-on-pants/#comment-4597043
Anon
No one said “if you don’t move for your parents you hate them”. That was how you interpreted the comment.
I see people bitching about their parents & infantilizing them nearly every day. It’s a fact that a lot of people don’t really like their parents here. I’m not of the opinion that if you don’t move it means you hate your parents, but if you’re asking for input from people who don’t have a good relationship with their own parents, the feedback you’re going to get will be tinged by that.
Anon
There were comments implying it’s selfish to not move to your parents, which ignores the reality that career-wise it’s simply unworkable for many people.
I don’t think most people here hate their parents or even have a bad relationship with them. I think threads about parent problems attract comments from other people who have problems with their parents. It’s called selection bias.
Anon
Definitely. “You hate your parents” and “you’re so selfish” are incredibly reductive – and sound like they’re spoken by people who haven’t yet begun providing elder care and have no idea of the true demands it entails.
Anon
Exactly! Elder care is HARD $hit, especially if you’re part of the “sandwich generation” raising young kids at the same time, and I’ve had only a small taste of it. I deeply love my parents and want to do it, but it is really hard on many people emotionally and financially and calling someone a terrible person for feeling like parents aren’t automatically owed the support of their adult children seems reductive. I can imagine feeling very differently about this if I weren’t as close to my parents as I am. Many children are not actually treated well by their parents.
Anon
I also truly believe that it is just about impossible for one person to provide care in dementia cases without completely losing their damn mind. There’s a reason why burnout, compassion fatigue, and depression are so common among caregivers. In my family we provide dementia caregiving for one person and it has been so time-consuming and stressful; it became so much more manageable once she moved to memory care. We still have to do a lot of work and we are glad to, but it’s no longer at a level where we are both popping blood pressure medication and losing sleep at night just existing.
Cerulean
Yes. Having seen my step grandparents both have dementia for nearly a decade before passing, it’s like having an adult slowly become an infant in terms of their needs… except instead of a portable (and cute) infant, you have a verbal (if irrational) adult. It’s grueling work.
Anon
Maybe. Maybe not. Lots of things are demanding. And yes, we get to choose what we take on, but it isn’t unreasonable for people to expect to spend their old age with their families. Life is lonely enough. We should be a support to our parents, even if only to teach our children that we sacrifice for our loved ones.
Anon
I’ve done it. I’ve cared for three family members until the end of their lives. I did not say “oh well, you should have planned for this! Deuces!” I helped them. But “deuces” seems to be the absolutist advice a lot of people want to spit out here. The truth is always more nuanced.
Anon
I don’t think there is anybody here who has reported responding that way (“screw you, you’re on your own.) I have never once seen that here. It seems like almost everyone does provide some care except in cases of true estrangement/abuse or similar. The issue is about whether or not to provide EXTENSIVE care as a matter of expectation. Sometimes the parents refuse to compromise or budge – what are the expectations for them?
Anon
+1 to 4:14. I have seen a lot of people talking about reasonable limits, like not emptying your own retirement accounts to provide for you parents. I have never seen anyone saying they won’t give their parents a dime or anything like that (barring rare situations of going no contact with parents, etc.).
Anon
I think what people do in reality is some level of compromise, for sure. But I’m talking about the off-the-cuff advice people like to give here that is not based in reality.
Senior Attorney
I kind of hated my parents for Reasons, but I still stepped up when they needed care because… I am a decent human being and what was the option? And yes, when they complained I may have said “you should have planned for this.” Because I may be decent but I am still human.
anon
It sounds like you have some issues with your parents and this idea that they expect you take care of them. My parents have been responsible with their money and have planned well for retirement and elder care. I know they don’t expect me be responsible for their care, but I will do what I can to help them when the time comes because I love them and want to take care of them.
Anon
That’s very fortunate that they have planned for their retirement in a way that isn’t putting the types of burdens on you that are being discussed here.
Anon
Yup.
Anon
But honestly, no one can prepare completely. It’s great that her parents are relatively rich (let’s be honest…. look at average retirement incomes…) and both alive (!), which is really what you need to be to be totally secure late in life. Because many/most of us will be hit with serious illnesses/injuries/debilitation at some point, not be rich despite reasonable efforts or life hardships, and of course one spouse will die first. Sometimes it’s just random and something you can’t prepare for. And it can happen at 60 or 90 and the future is usually unclear.
And sure, some of us have awful families, which makes all of these issues more emotionally filled.
Anonymous
I agree there should not be an expectation. I don’t think children owe their parents anything as a matter of right.
Anon
I think for those of us who are confronting a future that doesn’t look good, it’s not that we’re “selfish” or that we “hate our parents.” It’s that we’re scared that there are some really crappy options (or sometimes, crappy relationships) to work with. A close friend of mine is dealing with a situation where her father absolutely refuses all in-home help or to move out of his rural, isolated home that is nowhere near medical care. His crisis plan is “call her” and nothing more and there’s no one else in the family to help. His retirement plan is Social Security, plus some very modest savings. That’s incredibly stressful and scary! What happens when she gives birth later this year and physically cannot help him for weeks/months? Should she give up her job and move her family to middle of nowhere, Montana to be his personal nurse and her husband can work at the local gas station? Seriously, what’s the “non-selfish” game plan here? I would really like for someone to spell that out.
Anon
Having been in this situation with my mom, except my kids were already born, it was a frank discussion. If you need me in an emergency, Mom, I will do everything in my power to get to you. But it may not be immediate. You may end up in an ambulance (she did, more than once), and in the hospital by yourself (she did, more than once), but you have to know that’s what you’re choosing. I generally got to her within 1 day of hospitalization, but not always, and she was generally discharged to a skilled nursing facility, and I couldn’t be with her there every day either.
She understood her choices & still didn’t want to move. But it was her decision! She wasn’t an infant. She made her own decisions and lived with them. I loved her and understood that was how she wanted to spend the rest of her life, not in an apartment near my house where she didn’t know anyone. Miss you, mom.
Anon
I think that is reasonable because she was willing to accept a consequences of the choice and you also did what you could. I think a lot of people would do exactly the same. However, I have known for too many people whose parents guilted them for not being able to drop everything and be there constantly and I don’t think that’s fair at all – stuff like “you left me all alone at the hospital” or “how could you do this to me when I raised you for 18 years.” Maybe what it comes down to is some people being manipulative.
Anon
I don’t know about “expectations,” but if this is how it worked in their families because everyone was poor and had no one but each other to rely on, I think it’s a difficult transition when the next generation made it to college and has a middle class lifestyle and expects care taking to be professionally outsourced and for aging people to be more financially independent?
anon 123
OP, I agree with your general outline of what’s unreasonable to expect.
One thing I haven’t seen mentioned on this thread is that sometimes there’s a choice: provide care for aging parents or take good care of your minor children. There aren’t always enough hours in a day to do both. I think the more compelling obligation is to the minor children.
Seventh Sister
Not at all alone on this one, but people make lots of different choices. Pretty much the last thing I want to do when I’m old is to be a burden to my kids. I also want to plan, like my parents did, and be flexible about my location and independence level. While my in-laws are wealthy, they have done very little planning. Maybe they will get what they want – dying at home quickly and easily. What’s more likely is a string of medical crises that will mean they can’t go home again.
Anon
I think this is a very Western take, and I am very much not comfortable saying every person in the US needs to share every Western take, just like I am not comfortable saying that every person in the US needs to share any other cultural view.
I’m a little surprised by how vehemently this is being expressed today, because it seems more myopic than typically gets expressed here.
Anon
To me it feels especially extreme in a US context because if someone’s children don’t take care of them, and their own resources run out, who will take care of them here?
Anon
+ people seem to think there’s a greater public safety net than there really is in the US
Anon
The kids will likely help to the extent they can, most do. But arguing that the kids should also get to have their own families, keep their jobs, and have their own lives too shouldn’t be controversial.
Anon
That is a much less aggressive statement than the one in the OP here, and I don’t think anyone would disagree with it.
Anon.
Get therapy.
Anonymous
I don’t think it’s an expectation for even most people who do — they just did it. It’s more expensive than most people realize to pay for end of life care. Over $100K a year. Sometimes it is cheaper to provide support. Also, to be frank, I did inherit more money because there was more money since they didn’t have to pay for care. I don’t think life is perfect tradeoffs and you can’t know until you’re there.
Anon.
I mean, yeah. There are definately very old people living under the highway in my city. I assume they are childless but they may have just raised selfish monsters.
Anon
Can we all admit that in US culture, this means “daughters”, not “kids”? There is practically zero expectation for sons to care for aging parents or children. As someone recently posted, other countries have social safety nets, the US has women.
Anon
There are plenty of US bachelors whose lives are very tied up in caring for their parents (including having to relocate or make different career decisions). If they were married I would guess their wives would be picking up the labor, but if there’s no wife, men do step up even in US culture. I think it’s a good way to stay a bachelor though because women understandably do not want to marry into ongoing caretaking responsibilities or compete with a man’s parents for time and attention.
Anon
Strongly disagree – my husband is caring for his aging parents, and I know many other men who are also taking that responsibility.
Anon
Update on girls’ night with the theme of what you eat when your family isn’t around.
I went all in on the Lucky Charms and milk – got out a crystal bowl and pitcher and put together a silver platter of Hershey kisses, jelly bellies, and cookie dough squares 🤣 Friends brought salad with a toppings bar; cherries; cantaloupe; some delicious frozen appetizer popper things; and chocolates.
Everybody had a bowl of Lucky Charms as “dessert” after our salads with chicken, which I got a kick out of. The best part, though, was sitting around laughing for hours. It’s a great theme for a girls’ night – try it some time!
Anon
That’s a fun idea! And I’m with you – my girls nights dinners without my family are either super simple ‘girl dinner’ (fruit, cheese, crackers), bowl of cereal, or ordering in the takeout food my family doesn’t eat (sushi, philly cheese steaks, hot chicken sandwiches).
Anonymous
This is cute. I’d steal it, but all my girlfriends live alone.
Anon
Maybe flip it and do one dish you like to impress someone?
Anon
After the update this AM from the poster who wasn’t thanked by her nephew for his trust fund, does anyone else have updates to give from questions you’ve shared? I’m a sucker for a ‘where are you now’ post!
Anonymous
A while back I posted a question about how to assess college campus culture and was skewered for not wanting my daughter to take out student loans, and also pilloried for thinking she could get into a decent school or get merit scholarships with a 4.5 GPA and “just” a 1500 on the SAT. We visited a bunch of colleges, including some fancy no-merit-aid schools, and she decided that the welcoming, student-centered culture at a lovely Lutheran college was exactly what she wanted. She was admitted to a competitive major and awarded generous merit scholarships that will enable her to graduate with no student or parent loans. Move-in is just a few days away.
eertmeert
Wonderful! Wishing her all the best in her college adventure.
Anon
Yay!!!!
Anon
I remember that thread – in fairness to the commenters, you said she was “hoping” for 1500 SAT, which is quite a bit different than actually having that score in hand. Many people hope for 1500 and get 1300. But I did think people were being unnecessarily doom and gloom about her chances at top colleges and chances for merit aid at the next tier of schools. I do alumni interviews for MIT and they admit people with those stats regularly.
Congrats to her and you!! Must be a big relief to have this process in the rearview mirror.
OP
She did end up with a 1500, just hadn’t taken the actual test (only practice) when I posted.
Anon
oh yes, was not questioning her actual score, just saying that I think people would have reacted a bit differently if you’d said she scored 1500 vs hoped for 1500 because many people have unrealistic hopes ;) But it was clear from the post that she was top notch academically and I’m glad she’s ended up in a great place!
Anon
I’m Chapter 13, and I shared this once within a thread but didn’t make a post about it – I passed the security clearance at my new job! I also got approved for a new apartment where I’ll be saving $600/month. I’m moving in a few weeks.
Anon
Amazing, good for you! I’m seriously so impressed with your willingness to admit the mistakes you made and make real progress on the financial/emotional work to turn this around.
Anon
Thank you! It hasn’t been easy, but I reach 2 years in September (of my 5 year plan). Almost halfway there!
anonshmanon
amazing work!
Katie
I’m so thrilled for you! I enjoy your updates and applaud your tenacity to better your situation!
Senior Attorney
Hooray!
Anon
I can do one – I posted about being upset that a relative got left at Walmart on a scheduled outing by her assisted living community. Since then, the community has responded very well. They took full responsibility and insisted that their policy/outings fully allow residents with memory issues to go on outings and that their safety is meant to be assured. They put one staff member on temporary leave and launched an internal investigation involving the other. The outing policy (for sign-ups/roll call) has been changed. No one is pressuring us to move to memory care or threatening to curtail privileges. We’re very pleased with how it’s turned out.
Anon
I’m really glad to hear that.
anon
This is a great update! I was pretty horrified at the commenters telling you not to do anything because it could lead to your relative’s privileges being taken away. So glad this isn’t the case!
Anon
Luckily I could tune that out – a variety of experiences have taught me that we overestimate the cost of standing up for yourself (or a loved one). That said, of course it’s great that I wasn’t wrong this time!
Anonymous
This is great to hear – sounds like a fantastic community!
Anon
I posted on 7/9 (I looked it up) about having cold feet about moving in with boyfriend, who lived in a small town 50 minutes outside of my city. I realized how much of my “cold feet” was actually resentment about his inability to compromise on things + how we weren’t at all on the same page about certain things (where we wanted kids to grow up, what kind of upbringing they would have, his “independent” political identity really masking that he was Republican, whereas I am very liberal) and I broke up with him. I feel SO relieved, and looking back, I can’t believe I was ever going to move in with him. I honestly don’t know what I was thinking. Back to being a single cat lady and I couldn’t be happier.
Anon
I’m glad that you were able to leave a relationship that wasn’t right for you. On to building a better life.
OOO
So relieved to hear this!
Megmegmeg
wow! love this update – im so happy for you!
Anon
Cat ladies for Kamala!
Congratulations!
Anon
This is a great update, thank you for sharing and I’m so glad it all worked out for the best for you!
Been there
Good for you and don’t beat yourself up. Sometimes when you are attached to someone it’s really hard to see the negatives. It can take a transition or something else to shake you up and make you realize you deserve more. Been there. Be proud of taking care of and looking out for you!
Anon
I hope he’s not harassing you now!
Anon
So awesome that you asked for help and was able to use the input (and your own cold feet) to make such an important decision! Keep trusting your gut!
Anonymous
Bravo to you. That took guts!
LawDawg
I posted about Nuuly clothing rental for my daughter who was starting a new job (and got salty about the responses). I didn’t go ahead based on the feedback I got and didn’t say anything to her about it. She has since signed up on her own based on her friends’ experience with it. When I see her again this weekend, I will let her know that the first few months are a gift from me. I can’t wait to see what she gets.
Anonymous
Sometimes a mother knows her daughter best.
Anonymous
Posted this spring wanting to give a small scholarship of 1-2k to someone headed off to college but wanting to be able to select the recipient. Was mocked to no end here for thinking that 2k was so much that any organization would run or reopen a whole process for me so late in the game and for being a nosy prick daring to ask where the person was going to college, grades, etc. rather than just helping any random something studies major at any unaccredited university.
Well within 1-2 weeks of posting that, found an organization that gives away about 50-100k in small scholarships per year that runs a process where applicants apply by Jan-Feb and gives out the monetary awards over the summer. They were more than willing to have me sign an NDA, look through applications they already had, and let me pick someone to give a few thousand to. The way they saw it – they got to give away a bit more this year.
Anon
I’m glad it worked out and that you were able to link up with an organization that already had the architecture for attracting/sorting out applications. Sounds like a win/win!
Anon
Nice! Thanks for letting us know this is possible.
Do you want to share the name of the organization, or is it too local?
Anecdata
oh, that’s a great mid-ground, and how cool that there’s an org that “scales” the logistics to make the process efficient for those smaller scholarships!
Senior Attorney
I don’t think I posted about it at the time, but I am bursting with news all the same: After being in the shop for TWENTY SEVEN WEEKS, my car is back home! (It needed an electronic part and those Audi elves in the Black Forest are not very fast workers.)
Anon
Nice! Did they give you a loaner? Because 27 weeks is a long time.
Senior Attorney
Yes, I went through three loaners… started with a little subcompact, then after a couple of weeks (after having been on vacation for a month!) I threw a fit and insisted on an SUV because that’s what my car is, then they wanted that one back and gave me a different one. It was a Whole Thing…
Lexi
Congrats!
Anon
Maybe two ish years ago, I posted about whether to break up with a really wonderful guy/relationship of 2 years. The kicker was some of the nonnegotiable people in our lives are absolutely incompatible. (I can’t remember what I shared, but it went from a polite distance from his ex wife, to realizing she really hated me and I was worried the kid would be caught in the middle and I posted somewhere in my stage of being worried about that, to ex wife stalking me, finding and threatening my immediate family members across three states, calling social services alleging my dad (who never met their child) assaulted their child, and overall multiple calls to the police). It became untenable. What started as “am I okay with being a stepmom to a child who’s mother my husband doesn’t really get along with” to “I hope if I sell my house and move to an apartment she can’t leave a dead animal outside my door.” I lost a lot of faith in humanity. I hate that the family court in my state is slow. We broke up essentially in the “need to be safe” mode, we switched to only app-based calls and only check in every 4-6 weeks now, he still sends me apology/sorry he couldn’t prevent the bad flowers every few months. And now that I feel safer, I am slowly starting to realize I lost an otherwise really wonderful and supportive partner who I miss dearly. But even if he got full custody, I cannot imagine the damage it would do to my immediate family if I got back together with him. Plus, I’d constantly look over my shoulder.
All this to say – I’m doing Ok, I miss him, I am not ready to date others, but my previously not dramatic personal life took a major turn and I’m still reeling from it!
Anon
Oh oof. I’m so sorry all 3 of you (you, him and kid) went through/are going through this!
Anon
Oh, what an awful story. I’m so so sorry. He sounds like a sweet guy. What a nightmare for him, and the child. Regardless, I think you did the sane thing.
Give us an update in ….10 years.
Anon
I’d posted a few weeks ago about whether to reach out to a friend whom I hadn’t heard from in a long time when things had ended poorly on our last meet up. Although all the advice said I should just reach out and I was planning on it, oddly enough she texted me the very next day, so seems like my fears about losing the friendship were overblown.
Anon
My mom is 71 and has been a librarian at the same municipal library for nearly 40 years. Working has been good for her and has helped her prevent mental decline, but she had a bad day at work yesterday and is finally thinking of retiring. It would be great if the library honored her decades of service with a plaque or bench or brick in their garden or something, but I don’t know if they have done that in the past – I haven’t been to the library very often lately but I don’t remember seeing things like that. There are only a handful of librarians who have worked there as long as my mom, and they retired a long time ago. When the time comes I can contact the library director to ask how they would recognize her years of service. If the library doesn’t do that for her, would it be possible or appropriate for my sister and I to pay for something like that? Any other ideas to commemorate her dedication to the library?
She said that when she retires she wants to sell her house and move closer to me (I live 90 miles away). I think she will miss living in the community where she has lived for over 40 years, and not entirely sure she would be happy in my town, but it’s her decision. Our house isn’t quite big enough for her to move in with us, so she would have to get a condo (she said she doesn’t want an apartment). Should we get a realtor and start looking for condos? Finally, my cousin is starting out his career as a realtor and lives near my mom, but doesn’t know my town’s market that well. Can we have him help us look for condos? DH thinks we should find someone local.
Anonymous
Where I live you need a local agent who knows about condos that are about to become available before they are even listed.
Anon
Talk to the library director. They’ll probably have a small celebration in mind (usually the library director or branch manager pays out of pocket—tax dollars can’t be used here) but likely won’t have the funds (or permission) for something like a bench or plaque. But they’ll probably be receptive to you being willing to pay for something like a bench that the community can enjoy. Whatever their financial constraints, I’m sure they’ll be willing to work with you. 40 years of service is a big big deal.
anonshmanon
Dedicated benches and bricks in my local botanical garden would definitely need to be paid for by some outside party like yourself. I feel like they are more often dedicated in memoriam, but ymmv.
Friend of the Library
As an ardent library volunteer and member of our Friends of the Library, first I’m sorry that your mom had such a rough day. If the library director is unreceptive, and if the library has a Friends chapter, I would encourage you to approach them. Your plaque / brick / bench idea sounds lovely. Another alternative may be to ask whether the library would be receptive to adding copies of books that your mom loves most with book plates indicating they were donated in her name.
Anon
The book idea with personalized plates is a lovely idea.
Anon
Why not an apartment? My parents are 74 and 72 and moved to my city recently and they love renting and having someone else handle everything like snow removal, clogged toilets, broken dishwasher, etc. (and honestly as a homeowner whose house currently is needing a lot of $$$$ maintenance, I’m kind of jealous!) They rent a 3 bedroom townhouse with a covered garage, so they have plenty of space.
But I would not use the cousin — mixing family and business rarely ends well, and you’re going to want someone local to you.
Anon
+1
OP – I really encourage you to consider a nice accessible apartment building.
At least do it for a year, rather than rush to buy something. Why not?
Anon
In my small town, the beloved long-time librarian did get a plaque on the “sponsor-a-brick” wall and a big retirement party but it was all funded by her family and friends (many of whom also work at the library). The library itself hosted the party in the community room for no cost, but as a public institution with a very tight budget it would have been very out of touch if her family had asked the library to pay for something like this.
Senior Attorney
I concur with this. I worked for a public entity and based on my experience with my retirement and those of my friends, the rule for retirement celebrations absolutely is “if you want it done right, do it yourself.”
Nesprin
Is there a retirement community near you? She sounds like the sort of person who’d like an instant community.
Anon
As a state government employee, I’ll echo those saying that there’s not going to be much money for retirement recognition. It will mostly come out of the pockets of her coworkers. If you want to contribute money for something, that would be fine, though I might ask her if she’d prefer a bench or plaque or a contribution to the friends of the library fund that would go toward books or something else meaningful to her. As for the realtor, you definitely want someone who knows your local market.
Lexi
Agree to contact the Library Director once your mom makes her decision to retire. Each community does things it in different ways—for example in my large suburban city, the way to get a park bench is to work with the scouts who have an agreement with the city to install benches. Love the bench idea, maybe there are ways to sponsor a research room, story time, etc in her name. If there’s a nearby university, maybe a library science scholarship might be an option.
Also, if your mom is looking at moving after she retires, is se looking at specific geographic areas? Maybe a little early for a realtor, but definitely would be worth taking a day and going to some open houses and start doing research. For example, looking at areas that have single story condos, with low lips to get in showers, wide hallways, no steps to front door, etc.
NY CPA
On the cousin question: I would definitely want someone local. Does he work for a firm of realtors that has a local office in your town? I believe they can get referral fees for referring people to the local office, so you would get the best of both worlds with some benefit to your cousin but the expertise of a local realtor.
AIMS
This. I once tried using a family friend for a purchase and it was not a good experience and ‘breaking up’ was very rough!
Anonymous
My library has a play kitchen set donated in memory of a community member. It is really well loved by the kids and used everyday. Could be a good option if your mom enjoyed working with children.
Pippa
If Mom has been living in a single family home for many years and is now considering moving into multi-family housing, renting for a year is a great idea.Benefits to renting short term –
1. experiencing shared walls, commmon hallways, and very close living before owning
2. experiencing your town as a resident before choosing a long-term home and neighborhood
3. a year to figure out if she wants to join the local ymca or use the recreational facilities in her apartment (or condo) community – if it turns out that she’d rather be out in the community, then she’s paying ymca membership and higher condo assessments for buying into a condo with amenities she doesn’t prefer to use (but which her assessments must pay to maintain)
4. it slows down some of the major decisions just for the mental/emotional break – retirement, sale of home, move to new community are already a lot of change. Exciting – yes! But also there is the packing up, downsizing, etc. It might be good to be able to pause between the sale and purchase to take a breath.
Congrats to you and your Mom! I hope you both are able to enjoy this next phase.
Anon
AITA? DH has lots of clutter and trouble parting with anything, so much so that you can barely walk in our laundry room and garage. I had been nagging him for years to toss a lot of junk that has followed him/us through 10+ years, including a large storage bin with electric cords for unknown devices. The bin sat in our laundry room for a year along with a lot of other clutter. On Wednesday I put the bin and other junk in the garage and told him I made a pile of things I think can be tossed. I did not tell him that I was going to have a junk removal service haul everything away the following day, because I knew he would protest and we would never get rid of the stuff. DH texted me today and said he noticed everything was gone, he didn’t have a chance to go through the bin, there may have been CDs with tax docs on them, and it would have been nice to give him a heads up.
Anon
Perhaps not an AH, but somewhat dysfunctional communication is on display. You could have talked to him about how much those bins were bothering you and have a conversation about actually getting rid of them on an agreed-upon timeframe.
Side note: if he really thinks tax info was on those CDs you should make sure to freeze your credit (for anyone whose info was included, not just his and yours).
Anon
Hmm. That stinks. Ideally you’d have looked through the stuff to make sure nothing sensitive was being tossed. But what’s done is done. Maybe it’s time for a chat about handling clutter going forward. My sympathies though. I took the lead in decluttering with my spouse, because it wouldn’t happen any other way. But sensitive stuff like CDs/tax docs/thumb drives got put in separate boxes (which he will never look through except under extreme duress.)
Anon
You are both wrong? You should have given him more than one day of notice. He should stop being a pack rat; it might be cute when you’re 20 but eventually, just grow up and throw out things that are no longer useful.
Anon
Agree. It was rude not to give him a deadline and just throw away his stuff.
Senior Attorney
Yeah, the rule for this kind of thing is “give him a deadline and toss it after.”
Anon
I agree. And I’d argue that saying there’s a pile of things that can be tossed isn’t a deadline at all. You should have told him you’ve got a junk service coming on X date.
It’s your house, too, and he doesn’t get to clutter it up, but you do have to communicate. “Nagging” isn’t effective communication either. Y’all need to have a real talk about the clutter and come to an agreement.
Anon
It is HIS house too and he gets to keep his stuff there. . .
Look I personally hate clutter but one side of a marriage does not (barring health or safety issues) get to unilaterally decide what the family house is going to look like/how clean it will be kept/etc. This is something that needs to be discussed and agreed upon and on which compromises. need to be made. If my spouse unilaterally threw a bunch of my stuff away I would be incandescent with rage. And I suspect that if someone came here and said “my husband thinks I have too many shoes so he made a pile of the ones I do not wear a lot and then took them to Goodwill when I did not go through them fast enough to suit him” everyone would side with her.
I really wish people who post about marriage and parenting would include (1) whether they are married and for how long and (2) whether they have children and how old they are. Because I honestly cannot imagine that some of you have been married to the same person for more than a few years.
Anon
Yes! That’s why I said they should have a real talk and come to an agreement.
As per your request, I was married to the same person for 13 years, but he cheated on me and we got divorced (nothing to do with clutter!). For the last 6 years, I’ve been living with the same partner. So, I do have a lot of experience with resolving issues while living with a significant other.
Anon
I’ve been married for 25 years. My husband is a musician and has an old car fixing up hobby. We have more stuff than you would believe. But it’s his house too. I would never, ever throw away any of his stuff without his permission. I have my own hobbies and if he even touched my stuff, I’d be pissed. We respect each other and we would never do this.
Anon.
Weird that you think it is a maturity issue.
Anon
Do you actually think OP’s actions here are a sign of maturity?
Anon
While hoarding can be a sign of mental illness, it is a maturity issue. As time goes on, you understand that you don’t actually use this stuff and it just takes up space.
Anonymous
Lot of reasons can contribute that have absolutely nothing to do with maturity. I would say maturity is one of the least. Lot of physical and mental contributors if you ever care to do even a little research. Just like you often can’t maturity your way out of ADHD.
Josie P
I would have given him more notice. Like a week?
Bigger picture, if you have had it up to here with all of his Stuff, time to sit down and have a serious conversation about it (when you’re not feeling like you’ve had it up to here), and set everything out calmly for him, so that he knows this is affecting your quality of life and you can’t live with all of the Stuff any more.
Anon
I think it’s only OK to throw things away without a big discussion if you are absolutely, 100% positive that there is nothing in there that needs to be reviewed and that it is not valued by anyone else. Did you not open the box to confirm that it was only extension cords? Why is there a situation where there’s a question of confidential tax information being in the box?
Anon
Yes, you ATA. You never indicated that the items were being trashed, only that you thought they could be tossed. I think your behavior was rude, demonstrated poor communication, and treated your husband like a child who gets no vote in household decisions.
Anonymous
+1. I would be livid.
Anon
+1
Anon
Yep, 100%.
Anonymous
I’d be devastated if my spouse thought this was ok to do. Total ah move.
Anon
Agreed
Cat
Sorry, while this stuff would annoy me too just hanging around, your actions were way too abrupt here.
the hoarder
I’m the one with packrat tendencies in our household, and I would be very angry if my husband did this. I have a hobby that I don’t really do much anymore (think scrapbooking, painting, needlecraft), but I don’t want to trash all my supplies. Every so often, something comes up and it’s handy that I still have the ability to do my hobby.
My husband asks me about cleaning up the hobby corner of the office semi-frequently, mostly hoping that I’ll say everything can just go in the trash (he gave up asking when I would throw the supplies away years ago).
Could I tidy it up? Yes, and I have done that many times throughout our marriage. But assuming that just because the supplies don’t get used as much anymore means he can trash them would feel incredibly disrespectful and belittling to me.
I don’t go into the garage where he keeps most of his hobby items and start throwing things away. I don’t go to his hobby table and ask why I haven’t seen him use X tool in a while, so maybe we should toss it. Sometimes I can’t even get into the garage because he’s doing whatever big project requires his attention at the moment.
It’s bothersome when there’s clutter, but throwing away your spouse’s items without telling them is not the way to handle it.
Anon
Regarding the moving to India thread for the non-committal hedge fund boyfriend. Did any of you ever choose a relationship with a rich, handsome, charming and/or womanizing guy, in spite of your better judgment? I’ve been watching old Carrie Bradshaw reruns, and I’m always floored that Big was positioned as the dream catch when he is such a basket of red flags. How does that work out in real life?
Anon
When I was in my twenties and early thirties, I was pursued by a lot of men like that. A lot. Never was into it… the red flags kill any attraction for me.
Anon
That’s an adaptive response. What types of red flags would affect the attraction?
anonshmanon
For me, it’s someone who doesn’t have their life together, and someone who is inconsiderate or acts entitled. Those translate into instant loss of attraction.
Anon
I dated two of these guys in my 20s. One was in his mid-30s and very clearly just wanted a wife who ticked his boxes and was ready to get married ASAP. He was..fine? But the 13 year age gap and the fact that he was so into me being younger was squicky.
The second one worked at the same investment firm I was at. We flirted at my goodbye drinks reception and then went out on a date. My old work friends were excited for me (he was cute, in great shape, smart, tall, owned his own place, etc.). Then a few of them emailed me – this guy’s boss had congratulated him on his engagement in a meeting the same week we’d gone out. I was furious.
Anon
-Lack of empathy or faked empathy.
-Reversing “icing on the cake” with the actual cake. Being rich is icing; the cake is being a good, calm, stable, loving, intelligent person.
-Attempts to get me into bed far too soon.
-Making me feel like I’m lucky to have him and that I could easily lose him to someone else.
-The age difference. Even when I was in college, and mature, ambitious, had my act together, I was always suspicious of older men who were into me. Why aren’t they pursuing women their own age? Why aren’t you chasing a single, ambitious 35 year old hottie? Oh right… she would see right through you.
Josie P
If I were pursued by a guy like that it was for s*x only – IME they didn’t want or get into relationships!
anon
My first response was going to be flings yes, relationships no. But my first bf in college was essentially a sweet guy sometime pretending to be more tough and bad boy-ish. It was nice while it lasted, but it was never long-term compatible and we both knew it. Can’t figure out where that falls in your spectrum.
anon
Ask Melania
Anon
hahahaha
Anon
Nope. I thought Big was toxic when I watched the show in high school!
Anon
The two worst boyfriends in cinematic history were Big and the boyfriend in The Devil Wears Prada.
Anon
My take? Big kept telling her just who he was and she just did not care to listen. LISTEN.
AIMS
I don’t think he was ever meant to be the catch, at least not until much later when the show ran out of steam. He was just the guy she wanted. Sometimes that happens!
Anonymous
I guess I am #blessed that I never attracted men who were very rich, conventionally handsome, charming and/or womanizing. Being mid has its perks.
Anon
Ha, same.
Anon
In my 20s, I dated a guy from a wealthy family, who is now running a hedge fund. Ironically, he was one of the best boyfriends I ever had – he cooked and did housework, was kind, generous while gardening. But I was uncomfortable with the way the family money was always looming in the background, so I broke up with him. Even on hard days, I can’t bring myself to regret that I’m not a hedge fund housewife in Connecticut.
Cat
I dated one in college – wealthy family, being primed to follow in daddy’s hedge fund footsteps. I got the ick when we were at his house making sandwiches for lunch, I made my own sandwich, and then he took it assuming I’d made it for him!
Anonymous
Oh dear, yes, two trust fund bad boys. But the folks with money were too casual about too much drinking, drugs and random bad behavior. I now have a quiet life where no one is in rehab — at least not yet.
Anon
I dated a guy for a while who was very rich, lived the life, fun and charming, average looking, definitely a womanizer. I had a great time and moved on, no regrets.
Anonymous
SATC is a stupid show written by gay men that has no roots in any kind of reality for women.
Anon
Oh I disagree, it has a lot of kernels of truth, though it’s obviously exaggerated the way most TV shows are. The “cab light” thing, the frustration about not being celebrated for life milestones besides marriage/babies and “he’s just not that into you” are very much real things for hetero women. And I love the emphasis on female friendship, which I think really is a big part of life for most single 30-somethings.
Anon
I’m in a mood to make popcorn, open a bottle of wine, and binge watch something with my husband all evening. Any suggestions watch to watch? Current or old, doesn’t matter.
Anon
Ooh! Here have been my favorite past binges:
White Lotus
Big Little Lies
Mr. and Mrs. Smith (Amazon prime show)
The Flight Attendant
The Expats (starring Nicole Kidman, on Amazon Prime)
Girls
Insecure
Harlem (on Amazon prime – my favorite watch last year)
Tell Me Lies
I also love Summer House on Peacock if you like reality TV
Anon
Patriot on Amazon Prime (2 seasons) is the best show I’ve seen on television in at least 5 years.
Senior Attorney
And of course Ted Lasso on Apple, if you haven’t already.
Anon
I have, and think it will become our winter holiday family TV marathon tradition. Ted Lasso is perfection.
Anon
Never Have I Ever on Netflix. My favorite Mindy Kaling show!
Anonymous
Vigil
Big Little Lies
Sanditon
the Colin Firth Pride and Prejudice
Apples Never Fall (bad acting esp. in episode 1 but still kind of entertaining)
Fisk
Dix pour Cent
Turn Up Charlie
Foundation (kind of intense)
The Mandalorian season 1
I’m Sorry
Anonymous
Shrinking
Anonymous
I love this show!
anoncat
Slow Horses on Apple TV
Fallout on Prime Video
Physical 100 on Netflix
Alone on Netflix
Anon
Presumed Innocent
Anon
I heard that the movie Ghostlight was wonderful. I’m watching that tonight on Amazon Prime.
It is 100% on Rotten Tomatoes, 95% audience score. Hard to beat that.
Runcible
The Emperor of Ocean Park
Peaky Blinders
Natasha McShane
Late for this one, but next weekend check out Kleo / Netflix. So good.
Anon
I’m 39 and getting my first wisdom tooth out on Monday. It’s impacted and pressing on the second molar so it has to go. The doctor said the roots are pretty close to the nerve so it may be a coronectomy, he will just decide when he’s in there. I’m having IV sedation so not too worried about the procedure itself, but very nervous about recovery which I know is tough at my “advanced” (lol) age. I also have a very strong gag reflex so worried about having gauze so far back in my mouth. Anyone had this done in middle age or beyond and can tell me what recovery was like for you? I have generous sick leave at my government job and am able to take a full week off work so hopefully the rest will help.
Anon
No experience (I’m 43 with all my wisdom teeth unerupted), but had an impacted baby molar pulled when I was a teen. Follow the dietary/no sucking instructions religiously and all will be well. Mine didn’t hurt beyond what OTC painkillers could handle. I had surgery on Wednesday and was okay to go back to school on Monday. I don’t remember the gauze being in place for long, maybe a few hours, just stitches that they forgot to trim tickling the back of my tongue so I used scissors to trim them while looking in the mirror (don’t do this).
Senior Attorney
I had it done in my 40s and it wasn’t a huge deal. I think I had it done on Friday and was back to work on Monday.
Anonymous
I had one wisdom tooth only and it was also impacted but I didn’t have a problem with the roots. It was fine actually. I was eating soft food the same day and didn’t have any big recovery at all. Getting my tonsils removed as an adult was so much worse.
Anonymous
My wisdom teeth are also really close to a nerve! The last dentist to look at it suggested there was a strong chance I’d be drooling got the rest of my life if I tried to take them out.
For the 2 wisdom teeth I did have out, a huge bruise showed up a day afterwards. HUGE. I called to ask what happened and they said it just happens sometimes. I had comical visions of the dentist with his shoe on my face trying to pull the tooth.
AnoNL
I had 2 wisdome teeth extracted when I was 38. The top one was out in 1minute, zero extra care needed. The bottom one was complicated (kept breaking, the root tip was 1mikrometer away from the nerve) and it took 3.5hrs to get out. I got a corticoid shot after to prevent (major) swelling and antibiotics. Since I had my mouth stretched for that long, I had some small tears and bruise; but that will not be your case (it healed in a few days).
Now the recovery time after the bottom wisdome tooth was quite ok. I had the procedure on Friday, took a few painkillers on that day, used ice wrap for 3 hrs (20mins on, 20mins off) to help with swelling and pain and went to sleep with bead heavily propped up. I had some swelling next day, but nothing major. It was gone fully on day 5.
Day 2, I was focusing on keeping the wound clean and intact. I gently washed the area with chlorhexidine mouth wash and used a guard to cover my bottom teeth when eating. I took 2x paracetamols during the day (so barely any pain).
I was back to work on Monday (WFH), but Tuesday would have been better (as the swelling was all gone).
To be honest – each case is individual. If your blood clot would fall out and you would get an infection, that would add 3-5 days. I managed my work in a way that my direct reports could step in if I needed 5d cover (just in case).
NY CPA
I had a coronectomy last fall for my final wisdom tooth. The first two were surgically removed in the standard way, third was simple extraction. The coronectomy procedure itself was fine but the recovery ended up being much harder than my other wisdom teeth. I was swollen and my cheek was lightly bruised for about a week. I had some minor nerve bruising, which gave this weird referred pain in the front of my teeth, but thankfully it went away after a few weeks. Ultimately all’s well that ends well, but it was a bit tougher of a recovery than I was anticipating. I was able to WFH just fine but I definitely wouldn’t have been happy to go back to work right away because it looked pretty bad.
Anon
I had one out when I was 50, or close to it, with local anesthesia only. Drove myself there alone, drove myself home. Stopped at Starbucks on the way home for a cold drink. I may have taken Advil as a precautionary measure. I probably worked the same day. Perhaps my experience is not typical, and if you are having general anesthesia, I am sure it is not going to compare to yours. But I definitely thought that, for once, it paid to procrastinate.
Anon
I’m having IV sedation (what you have for colonoscopies and the like), not general anesthesia, so I don’t expect that to be a big deal. Once I wake up I’m totally fine, maybe just a bit drowsy. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Runcible
I had eight teeth out at once at age 20, four wisdom teeth plus four other teeth, to get braces. Painkillers were key for recovery, plus lots of iced tea and Häagen Dazs raspberry sorbet.
Anon
For helping an aging ILs, is there a commonly-understood definition of “assisted living” and “independent living”?
For my MIL, she was gravely ill and needed 24/7 heavy -duty care and help with getting out of bed, toileting, bathing, and eating. I think that that was “skilled nursing”?
For my FIL, he is used to being taken care of by his wife, but she died. He isn’t likely to do things like changing sheets but can do his own clothing laundry, use a non-step-in-shower, go to the toilet, and eat. He doesn’t cook though. What is that? Someone who needs 5-10 hours of homemaker-type services?
Senior Attorney
I’d say he’s a good candidate for assisted living. When my parents went to AL they had their own little apartment and did their own laundry and cleaning (at first — later on that was added on to the services), and ate in the dining hall. Plus there were a lot of activities which would probably be good for FIL. He wil probaby have a girlfriend before too long, so be prepared for that.
Anon
Someone asked a similar question the other day, and for someone who can bathe, toilet and eat independently, I don’t think you need assisted living (which is extremely expensive). It’ll be much more economical to just invest in a cleaning service and meal delivery. I’m sure you can find a service to wash his sheets as well.
Anon
I worked in an independent living facility that would have been perfect for your dad. They had separate apartments with in-house maintenance and offered a la carte services as needed, like housecleaning and laundry, had a dining hall where the residents could sign up for meal plans based on whether they did their own cooking or not, and had nurses on staff who could help with medications and light medical care (like podiatry appointments, etc.).
Anon
There are some retirement communities that have both independent and assisted living wings. So he could start with independent living, which is basically like a hotel with meals provided, and then move to the assisted living wing when he needs more care.
Anonymous
You can usually reach out to places like your agency on aging and they will often have people who do this hourly for people who don’t actually need nursing care yet. Yes you can go into assisted living but that’s a good option if he wants to stay at home.
Anonymous
Just popping in to say that I first read this as “aging 1Ls” and now I’m laughing about the idea of special curriculum for older law students.
Senior Attorney
Heh
Anon
Is it me or does it seem like this can be a bit gendered for older people? If my mom needed assistance with household tasks, it was only once she had gotten too ill to do them herself, so she was very frail and medically fragile. With my dad, he’d need assistance because he never did half these tasks ever, but relied on my mom. So he could be much healthier and able to handle hygiene but could have a refrigerator of rotten food because that was just never what he had skills in. Ditto changing sheets or scheduling appointments or handling the bills. But he could walk a mile and shower. If mom needed assistance, she needed all of the assistance. With dad, he just needs a wife or adult child really.
Anon
It more depends on health and mobility. Some of the discussions above are really more about caring for parents with significant issues requiring significant care. If you have one of those 75-year-old dads who still bikes 200 miles a week, obviously it’s a different situation. Even if he doesn’t cook, he’s not going to injure himself trying to put something in the microwave.
Anon
Those gender assumptions also feel a little dated. I’m sure it varies, but my parents are in their late 70s and my dad does more of the cooking and cleaning than my mom does, though like most long married couples there are certain things that one person specializes in and the other rarely does and they’ve been trying to make a point of making sure that they both know about all the bills and things like that.
Anon
My mom & dad (mid-70s) conform to gender stereotypes, in that my mom has always done the bulk of the cooking and cleaning, although post-retirement neither of them does much of either – they have a cleaning service and eat a lot of take out, frozen items and leftovers. I think my dad would be ok alone with some hired help though. We definitely wouldn’t move him into assisted living immediately if my mom died suddenly.
Anon
Just want to throw this out there, and not sure how you’ll feel about it. But any senior widower is going to be VERY popular with the senior ladies, given the imbalance in the numbers due to women’s greater average longevity. If your FIL goes to any sort of senior living, he will probably have a new girlfriend by day three.
Anon
This is very true
Anecdata
If what you’re looking for is formal terminology/vocabulary for talking with insurance or medical institutions, you could describe that as “partial assistance with 2 ‘Instrumental Activities of Daily Living’ (IADLs). The core ADLs are basic self care tasks like toileting and feeding oneself (roughly, things a healthy typically developing school age child could do); while IADLs are the full picture of essentially everything involved in “living independently” – think roughly the skills an 18 year old would have – and includes shopping for and preparing food; maintaining and cleaning a living space; etc
Anon
This is super helpful. Now wishing I had taken some nursing or whatever discipline owns this topic (social work???) in college instead of that second major in Useless Studies.
Anon
Someone was asking recently for how to find book recs — I always check out all the authors who provided blurbs on the backs of books I enjoyed. I read 100-150 books a year and feel like I’m aware of most popular new releases, but I still discover books I haven’t even heard of this way. For example just discovered Deepa Varadarajan’s Late Bloomers from her blurb on the back of Excavations by Kate Myers.
Anon
Great tip, thank you!