Workwear Hall of Fame: Notch Collar Cotton Blend Blazer

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Dec. 2020 Update: Select colors of this cozy blazer are on sale for $58 in the 2020 Nordstrom Half-Yearly Sale.

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

When I was a junior associate at a large firm, I had a few outfits in my closet that I kept on reserve for particularly busy weeks. The idea was to have something that was professional-looking in case I was called into a last-minute meeting, but soft and cozy enough that I would be slightly less crabby when I was still at my desk at 10:00 p.m. I haven’t had a 300-billable-hour month in quite some time, but I’m still drawn to a comfy-looking blazer for days when I want to look put-together but really don’t feel like changing out of my pajamas.

This blazer looks like it would be just right. I would wear it with a ponte dress for maximum comfort. It’s $98 at Nordstrom and available in petite sizes XXS–L, regular sizes XS–XXL, and plus sizes 1X–3X. The petite and regular sizes are available in five colors, while the plus sizes are only available in black and white. Notch Collar Cotton Blend Blazer

2020 Update: We're adding this popular, affordable, COMFORTABLE blazer to our Workwear Hall of Fame — it's been around for a long time, keeps coming out in new colors and sizes, and is almost always on our monthly list of most-bought items

This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

Some of our favorite sweater jackets for the office as of 2025 include M.M.LaFleur (the OG, the jardigan!), L'Agence, Summersalt, J.Crew, and Jenni Kayne. For budget options check J.Crew Factory and Quince.

Hunting for the best sweater jackets for plus sizes? Some of our favorites of 2025 include J.Crew Factory (up to 3X), J.Crew, Ralph Lauren, Nic & Zoe, and Lands' End. (I don't know this brand, but this boiled wool one looks nice too, and this $40 option is available up to size 6X.)

Sales of note for 2/7/25:

  • Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
  • Boden – 15% off new season styles
  • Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
  • J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+

Sales of note for 2/7/25:

  • Nordstrom – Winter Sale, up to 60% off! 7850 new markdowns for women
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 25% off your $175+ purchase — and $30 of full-price pants and denim
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 15% off
  • Boden – 15% off new season styles
  • Eloquii – 60% off 100s of styles
  • J.Crew – Extra 50% off all sale styles
  • J.Crew Factory – 40% off everything including new arrivals + extra 20% off $125+
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 40% off one item + free shipping on $150+

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

394 Comments

  1. I like a nicely fitted blazer, but this looks like it is a hair too snug to button comfortably and the sleeves an inch too short.

    1. I was about to comment: Is this how you wear your blazer sleeves? Looks too short to me.

      1. It looks like it fits in the shoulders, but the rest of it just looks awkwardly small. Sizing up doesn’t solve that problem, because then the shoulders no longer fit. Perhaps I am old and unfashionable because I just do not understand this trend.

    2. I think it looks like it fits as intended — slightly cropped and not intended to be worn buttoned. I’d actually prefer it without a button for this reason.

    3. This could be an issue with the model just being very tall and having longer than average arms. Blazer sleeves are always way too long on me, so this could be a good option for me without requiring tailoring. I also think that with a casual blazer, proportions like this can be a little more forgiving. And in this case, if you go to the link and look at other colors, it appears that the sleeves are designed to be folded up.

      1. Yes — I am 5-4 and am pretty sure that what fits on a model (particularly waist to shoulder measurement) would not work on me.

        1. So maybe there is hope that this jacket would fit a typical person if it looks too small on the model

        2. Models don’t wear the same clothes we buy off the rack – they make longer versions for tall models.

        3. This is a very weird statement. Models are fitted, pinned, and sewn into the clothing so that it “fits” them. You make it sound like only items that look very ill-fitting on a model (which isn’t a picture we are going to see) would fit you.

          It’s fair to say, for example, Oh, that shirt has dolman sleeves which make me look very slump-shouldered, or, I am pear-shaped, so I should probably go up a size in the sheath dress. But – if it fits the model it won’t fit me? You know that you are not buying the exact same item the model is wearing? Plus fashion models vs. fit models are very different – I think fit models have proportions a little closer to the average woman.

    4. I think this is very cute, but I’m not crazy about any of the colors except maybe white.

    5. I really thought we were over the shrunken blazer look. That was, what, 10+ years ago?

      As a Tall, shrunken blazers were the worst for me. I looked like Lurch.

      1. And as a Short, shrunken blazers look great on me, but I can’t wear boyfriend blazers without looking like a little kid dressed up in my Dad’s clothes. I’m glad that there are both options so I can finally buy new blazers.

        1. +1 – as a Tall Arm with Short Waist, longer blazers also look dumb on me. I go for the shrunken blazer (with sleeves cuffed) every time.

    6. I own this in white and wear it all of the time (including today). I can button it and the sleeves are bracelet length, but I usually roll them up, so it looks more intentional.

      1. Same. I’m 5’7 and have this in white. Sleeves are perfect length. I usually don’t button it but can do so. It’s one of my favorite summer blazers (warm for office AC but light color) and looks good in winter as well (warm).

  2. Heya! I’m heading to Amsterdam for the first time for a few days next week. I have a couple of questions:

    1. I want to do a bike tour, but I am definitely not an expert bicyclist. I’m strong/fit enough to ride a bike for a couple of hours; I’m more concerned that I will cause some sort of International Incident as the Ugly American who didn’t know how to ride a bike the Amsterdam way. I’m considering a slightly longer countryside tour (which includes cheese and beer) to ride a bike outside of the city. Any discouragement, encouragement, or anecdata?
    2. What “normal” items should I look for in AMS, that are difficult/expensive to come by in the US? I’m probably going to get a cheesy, touristy clog. What else?

    1. You’ll be fine on a bike. It will not be hard. Just pay attention to your surroundings and don’t swerve

    2. You’ll be fine on a bike! If it’s going to be more than a few hours, consider getting some cycling underwear or shorts that have extra padding to minimize soreness the next day.

      If you have space to plant them, consider buying some tulip bulbs. Look for ones marked okay for US import. We brought back 3 dozen and they make me so happy every spring when they bloom.

      1. Be careful with this, an ignorant TSA agent might make you chuck them no matter the labeling. I’d have them mailed.

      2. This is a lovely idea and would love to bring these for my mom. Maybe I’ll be able to find some specially labeled bulbs that I could mail back to her….

    3. Go to Dille and Kamille for home goods. I visited several years ago and still wish I could duck back in.

    4. I biked in Amsterdam for the first time in 15+ years and it went fine. Granted I was outside the city, touring the tulip fields, but in the city has incredible infrastructure set up for biking. So I think you’ll be fine.

    5. I’ll be the voice of dissent – I had a disastrous experience with a bike in Amsterdam that involved being separated from my group (and not having any way to communicate with them). There is so much foot traffic, bike traffic (from locals and tourists), the tram, etc. I strongly recommend renting a bike outside the city. I also found the rental bikes really heavy (not what I was used to).

    6. Mike’s Bikes does great tours. They have a countryside one that sounds like what you want.

      1. +1 Did Mike’s Bike tour (countryside tour to windmills and cheese farm) and I would highly recommend. Biking in the city can be slightly challenging but pay attention to the road and other bikers and you will be fine. Most of the tour is biking on flat ground outside the city. Easy riding.

    7. Just a word of “don’t do what I did” which is I brought back Old Amsterdam brand cheese for my parents and in laws. It was kind of a hassle with customs and all that. I got home and found out they sell this cheese in Trader Joes!

  3. I work at a law firm. I’m not an attorney or paralegal, but I was recently promoted to head a department here. The promotion likely won’t take effect for another month and it won’t be announced until then. I don’t know any of the details but I was hoping I’d be moved from a cubicle to an office, since I’d be a manager. However, they just put the summer intern in the only available office. I’ll be supervising and training this intern as well as the rest of my team. I report directly to a partner, who is the one who assigned the intern the office. I’m a bit demoralized that I’ll be managing someone in an office from my cubicle. Am I being petty? Should I bring this up with my boss when I find out more details about my promotion? If so, how do I do it diplomatically? I’m not interacting with clients so I cant justify the privacy other than I’ll need it when doing yearly reviews. My boss is not the type to even think about something like this. There aren’t any open cubicles left which is why I think the intern got the office.

    1. Yes just bring it up- once I get this promotion, I’d like to switch places with the intern. Simple as that.

    2. Can you just ask if once your promotion is effective, you can have the office once intern leaves?

    3. “Hi, boss. Would it make more sense for me to move to the office and have the intern take my cube, or do you need the office to be available after the intern leaves for the summer?”

      1. This seems too passive-aggressive to me. You need to tell him directly (but framing it as a polite request) that you want the office.

    4. The promotion doesn’t start for another month, so end of June? And the intern is only here for the summer? I wouldn’t ask for the intern to be moved during the summer – in my view, that will make you look either insecure or petty unless there is an actual business need for you to have the office (and it sounds like there isn’t). I’d tell your boss you’d like to have the office after the intern leaves.

      1. Thank you. I am worried about looking insecure, probably because I am. I definitely have imposter syndrome and major issues with confidence in the work place. I work in a place that still feels like a boys club. The intern is a young man who seems very nice but I had a knee jerk reaction to me being a woman managing him while he gets the office.

        1. It probably is ingrained sexism to some degree. I would for sure say something to your supervisor but I’d have more of an attitude that it must have been an oversight, rather than asking them for the office as if they’re granting you a favor.

        2. Just remember that your authority doesn’t come from where you sit, it comes from your title and your own confidence. Should you be in this situation long-term? No, but it’s temporary and predates your promotion.

    5. Is the intern a law student? If so, regardless of whether you are supervising them this summer (which is a little odd, but whatever), it isn’t a normal supervisor-sub relationship. They are anticipated to come back as an attorney, and IMO attorneys are a separate class of people from staff at law firms.

      1. I agree. Attorney’s are treated differently, even if only a summer student, they must think they will be valued if/when they are offered a permanent position. Hence, any admin (even a supervisory one) is to know they must serve the attorney’s. When Mason came here, he was an intern, but the manageing partner insisted we treat him as an attorney in training, and that meant he got the mega-cubicle near the window, even tho others had windowless cubes or windowless offices. Once he gradueated, he got to keep his megacube, and he blamed that on why he got fired. He said he and Lynn could have been discreet if he had an office, but that, in my opinion, shift the burden to us on why we had to put up with him haveing s-x with her in the conference room. I was tasked with fireing him b/c of that and b/c he never passed the NY bar. So even attorney’s have to buckle under if they can’t make the grade, and they are NOT allowed to use the conference room table for any kind of procreative activity.

      2. Right, this was my question. If the intern is in a lawyer-function role, then yes, they typically get offices during summer clerkships, while staff does not.

      3. Yeah, this will sound like a jerk comment but whatever.

        At my law firm literally only one person who isn’t a lawyer or lawyer in training has a office and the other staff hate it but such is life.

        I think you need to look at what the other non lawyers have going on or what the previous department head had.

      4. OP- he is a law student. However, no other law student has an office. They all sit in cubicles unless we don’t have any open. The people at my firm who have offices are attorneys and staff managers. I would be the only staff manager without an office.

        1. You are being too passive. Go to manager and say “hey I need an office so I’ll be switching with the intern, is that OK?” Manager will probably say that’s fine and then you move yourself in there. IF the intern comes back later then he can get an office.

  4. For some reason I am thinking of hopping on the leopard-print midi skirt bandwagon. I am in my early 40s, living in a place where the trend has not yet taken hold so I haven’t really seen it in the wild. Can I legitimately wear this trend, or would this veer too far into mutton-dressed-as-lamb territory?

    1. Sounds like a perfect outfit for someone of your age (or any age!) Wear it with confirdence – you will look great! :)

    2. This sounds fab. Do you have a link to one you particularly like? I’m of similar age and location.

    3. I didn’t know there was a leopard midi skirt bandwagon, but overall I think of animal prints as leaning older anyway (a very ladies of a certain age look, and I say this as one of them) so there’s not a danger of mutton dressed as lamb here.

    4. I’m 60 and I just ordered one. So if you’re mutton dressed as lamb then I’m grandmutton dressed as lamb! ;)

  5. Question for older (perimenopausal/menopausal ‘rettes):
    I am about to turn 42. I woke up in the night last night with right-sided lower abdominal pain so bad I thought it was appendicitis and almost called the ambulance; as I was waiting to see if it would get better, I realized where I was in my cycle and that it might be ovulation pain – and I think it was, because after about an hour (and an Aleve) it went away. It was a burning pain in one small area just to the right of my uterus and I had uterine cramping also. I’m not in any pain this morning. I realized that I used to barely notice when I ovulated, but over the last year or so, every couple of months I have big-time pain at ovulation. Is this normal, or something you experienced? I went to the OB/GYN recently and talked about some of the symptoms I have been experiencing, and she was sympathetic but didn’t offer much beyond “yeah, that happens.” I feel like 42 is too young for full-on perimenopause, especially because my mom didn’t go into menopause until 55 and my mom’s mom had a baby at 43! I can’t imagine dealing with this for 13 years before it’s over.

    1. From what I understand, 42 is a normal age for perimenopause. (I know a woman who went through it at 36.) It usually lasts about four years, not 13.

          1. Yeah I had perimenopausal symptoms for over 10 years (confirmed by my OBGYN) before I actually became menopausal at age 54. “In menopause” means no period for a year, which I just achieved last month. But I have been having hot flashes for at least 5 years and I still have them. SO FUN

            To OP- I didn’t experience the pain you’re experiencing and I would also think ovarian cyst. If you want to confirm it’s ovulation see if you start your period 14 days from the day of the pain. My understanding is that while the timing from your last period to ovulation can be variable, the timing from ovulation to next period is more fixed. Alternatively, you could buy an ovulation testing kit.

            My perimenopausal symptoms, other than hot flashes, were weight gain and breast tenderness, sometimes extreme breast tenderness. My OB said that the hormonal changes can make you experience things you haven’t experienced since going through puberty, which was definitely the case with my b00bs.

          2. I have symptoms consistent perimenopause on a regularly recurring basis since I was a teen, so I sort of wonder if they would have misdiagnosed if they had started in my forties?

            PCOS is no fun (and I’m someone whose symptoms only get worse on the pill). Women’s health issues need more research and better treatments.

    2. I’m also 42 and thought a few months back I thought I was in perimenopause. Irregular periods, heavy flow, insomnia, pain during ovulation, cramps during my period, etc. I had my doc run a battery of tests and all came back negative for perimenopause and then some. I think changes like this in our bodies are expected in our 40’s. I certainly can’t eat, drink, sleep like I used to but it’s not always a sign that something is wrong. (I’m not saying that horrifc pain you described is normal; get it checked out). Good luck!

    3. Get screened over ovarian cancer asap. Discomfort in the pelvic area is one of the symptoms that’s often brushed off. It may be nothing but it may be something.

    4. Maybe ovarian cysts? I had a friend who had similar symptoms from them. From my personal experience, could it be gas? I’ve had some pretty bad gas pain over the years, but my digestive tract is finicky which may not be your experience. (Gas-X is the best.)

      1. Was coming here to say ovarian cysts. I thought I was dying the first time I had one rupture. I kept expecting an alien to burst out of my abdomen. Talk to your gyn. Mine changed my bc method and I haven’t had one since.

        Funny note – I really thought that it was gas at first, which is the only thing that didn’t get me out of bed to the ER. I didn’t want to be like Sheldon in that episode of Big Band when he eats all of the brussel sprouts.

        1. Yes, I had what I thought was appendicitis. Like you, the pain was so sharp it woke me up in the night. One trip to the ER and several tests later confirmed it wasn’t my appendix and most likely a cyst bursting. No way to really know unless they had done a test before and after to see it and then see it disappear. The pain was so bad I couldn’t move and although the pain subsided as the hours went on, the doctors all told me it was good that I came in because sometimes the appendix partially ruptures and a patient thinks it’s fine and never goes in only to have to go in a week later because now toxins are floating around. In other words, visit your doctor!

    5. Perimenopause can start in your thirties- for me it was 38. And my mother did not start peri till late 40s. Every woman is different. Sorry that you had such pain- I’d see a GYN about it, especially due to its sudden onset, severity, burning sensation and being more on one side that the other. Get a second opinion if you feel like your concerns are not being taken seriously. Take care of your health.

    6. I’m 41. First, I resent being called “older.” But seriously, I have been actively ignoring impending menopause, and had never heard of perimenopause before. Something to talk to my gyn about next time.

  6. So ordered my first pair of Rothy s after all the praise here. It fits great EXCEPT at the top of my feet (where my toes are). Struggling to decide if I should go half a size up or just wait for it to stretch. ANY feedback will be helpful!

    1. I’ve heard from two friends that this material does not stretch out much. Better to size up. They advise add 1/2 size for round toe/smoking slipper styles, and possibly a full size for the points.

      1. Can confirm, they didn’t really stretch. I went 1/2 size up for the points but I have normal bordering on narrow feet.

    2. No counsel because these are my first Rothys too, but I’m having the exact same experience – weirdly tight around the top of my big toe. I don’t want to size up again because other areas and length would be too loose.

    3. I have always needed a half size larger in my Rothy points. I’m usually an 8.5 and wear 9s in my Rothys.

    4. I just went through this – they aren’t going to stretch much so if you’re still within the return period, return them and go up a half size.

    5. I ended up having to size up a full size in the Points for this same reason. The website says they do not stretch. When I sized up, the other areas of the shoe were not too big, and everything fits just right.

    6. Not only do they not stretch but I find that the pair I wash the most appears to have shrunk slightly, even though I wash in cold water on delicate and air dry.

  7. I would like to try either needlepoint or cross-stitch. Does anyone have advice for which one is more suitable for beginners and/or tips on books or other resources for getting started?

    1. Needlepoint is expensive and if you do it wrong, can warp the canvas.

      I’d go with x-stitch. Just go to Michael’s and look for something for beginners that maybe has geometric patterns and just a few colors (I had an alphabet pattern book and a thing with quilt patterns on it when I started). Ideally, look for something with just ONE color (like letters) and get Aida cloth in a big size (like the spacing b/w holes, not the actual piece). Hardanger is something to avoid — look for something like 12-14 holes per inch.

      Lots of floss. And a biggish needle for xsitching and a cheap plastic hoop. Shouldn’t set you back more than $20?

      I’m getting rid of all of my stuff — my eyes can’t do this and I was forever making things that were lovely but I didn’t have the skills to turn into anything. And my kids have zero interest. Somehow we did this in college all the time like we needed to have colonial-era domestic skillz.

    2. I’d start with cross stitch but you can also get some fun embroidery kits which have a pattern printed on canvas. I’d go to a craft shop and get a kit or look online for something marked beginner friendly but they will include everything you need other than scissors. Youtube will have tons of videos showing you the stitch.

    3. I think cross stich with Aida cloth is easiest for beginners. You may be surprised to find a local store or library with intro classes or more generic meetups for crafters.

    4. I think cross stitch is great for someone without any prior experience. Check out online retailers for a small beginner’s kit. I like 1 2 3 stitch.com for supplies. The kit should have the needle, fabric, floss, and pattern. All you need are a nice pair of scissors and possibly a hoop or qsnaps if have trouble keeping the fabric tight (I’m a qsnaps kinda stitcher but started with hoops). Get something super simple with few colors and minimal specialty stitches. Once you have the basics down, Etsy has thousands of great patterns to download, including tons of snarky modern cross stitch patterns that are super fun to stitch. I think stitching is a relatively inexpensive hobby until you get to framing the finished product. That can easily cost you hundreds of dollars to have it done right unless you also learn how to do it on your own. There are a number of instruction videos online or blogs with instructions. There are a lot of different ways to stitch, so you will have some trial and error to find out what works for you. Just keep in mind that you are the only one that will likely ever know that you made a mistake. I think stitching is really starting to make a comeback as far as hobbies go, and I’m excited about the new interest!

    5. Pre-printed canvas/cloth is definitely easier since you don’t have to count tiny squares/spaces.

      Etsy has beginner kits that include the hoop, floss, needle, printed chart, etc. Charts have symbols or colors to denote the color floss to be used — color charts are easier to read, IMO. Cute, modern designs.

      There’s always the Subversive Cross Stitch kits :) Some designs are more beginner-friendly than others with simple borders.

    6. I recently started embroidering. I went to JoAnns and bought fun, inexpensive patterns that can be ironed onto cloth like tea towels or canvas, along with a hoop and floss for about $13. Following the pattern was very easy and doesn’t involve the same counting as cross-stitch. I like embroidery because I can make functional gifts like kitchen towels or embroidered paper cards.

    7. Along the same lines, I’m thinking about trying knitting. Any recommendations to get started?

      1. Check out Ravelry.com- website for knitting and crochet. Lots of patterns, tips, etc and advice for experienced knitters/crocheters as well as newcomers. You will be welcomed and inspired!

      2. If you have a lys (local yarn store), they most likely offer lessons, or have a stitch night. There may be other knitting groups in the area, join Ravelry and ask, the friendly people there will hook you up.

        If those resources don’t pan out, Joanne’s and Michael’s have knitting lessons, or you can check a kid’s knitting book out of the library and start. All you need is needles and yarn. There are also some fantastic YouTube videos, try VeryPink or the Purl Soho.

  8. Checking in on the woman who was having a really rough Memorial Day weekend due to cheating boyfriend. Hoping things are somewhat better!

  9. Sorry if this double-posts – the page refreshed. I’m looking for advice on whether needlepoint or cross-stitch is best for beginners and tips on resources for getting started. Thanks!

    1. I went on Youtube and watched some instructional videos. I learned from that. You don’t need to spend a lot. See what they use on the video and buy similar.

  10. For those of you who have had sinus surgery, how awful was it before you decided on the surgery?

    I think I am giving up on getting better on my own and may take my ENT up on the surgery offer. I’ve spent months drowning in mucus but able to go to work every day (obvs prefering to hide in my office with boxes of tissues). But lately I have had this horrible pressure on the front of my face and forehead and my ears seem to blow out often (to the point where it wouldn’t surprise me if I have ruptured my left eardrum).

    I guess I don’t seem *that* sick, but I am getting sick and tired of feeling like the day just exhausts me and I can’t breathe enough (or not need to blow my nose for long enough) to enjoy sports like tennis and biking that I’d usually do this time of year. It’s been like this for months and months — nothing we’ve thrown at this has really had any effect.

    A hundred years ago I guess maybe I’d move to Arizona and hope that a different climate helped (or just resign myself to being miserable but not as miserable as other people who are accutely ill and/or in much pain).

    1. Hi had sinus surgery for an unusual reason: complication of wisdom tooth extraction (bacteria from my mouth ended up colonizing my sinuses…), but I was miserable for the 4-5 months leading up to my surgery. After countless rounds of antibiotics (and subsequent yeast infections), I decided that surgery was right for me. The recover was rough (1 full week of feeling awful until the tubes/packing came out, 1 week of feeling not so great and many follow up appointments for a few months after) but I have been 100% sinus infection free since then! (it’s been 3 years) Worth it in my opinion :)

    2. Have you done everything short of surgery? Antibiotics, nasal sprays? Daily allergy medication like zyrtec or allegra (they say it takes a few weeks to build up and needs to be taken every day)? If those things haven’t worked, and it’s been like this for months and months, I would absolutely have the surgery.

      1. Oh, yes. I have done everything except cast spells. I just keep hoping it will just resolve . . .

        I think I am just of the opinion that surgery often doesn’t work as advertised and I had one prior surgery where my vocal cords were scraped by the tube they put down your throat when they put you under that led to a lot of voice/throat issues and having to go to voice therapy for the better part a year afterwards.

        And after reading DopeSick, I am not about to take anything stronger than Advil. How bad was the pain (for NYC Girl and others who have had it)?

        1. Go to a doctor that doesn’t do packing, apparently it’s way less painful. I had some terrible pain but, see below, I also got my wisdom teeth out at the same time. I took pain meds for the first 5 days or so and then alternated Tylenol/ibuprofen for another 10 days (and that was for my teeth, all four sites became infected….).

    3. Once I saw the X-ray and the doctor said, “that’s your clogged sinus & that stuff is not moving without surgery” I was in. It was the best thing I have ever done.

    4. I got it done about a year ago and except this spring with terrible allergies, I no longer have any sinus pain, pressure, etc. I got my wisdom teeth done at the same time (DO NOT DO THAT) and recovery suuuuuuuuuuucked. I was still unable to do anything where I bent over (i.e. barre, yoga, etc) for almost two months. It only went away when, tbh, I cried so much over a week that I cleared out my nose in the process. But after that, it’s way better. Recommend!

  11. Looking for writing resources. I somehow made it through public school, college, and a T14 law school without grammar coursework. I read a ton as a young child, so I tested out of a lot of English classes (I was in college lit at age 11). I wrote on to law review, got published, have worked mostly in transactional law for the last five years. I recently had an opportunity at my firm to start taking over a practice area from a highly successful attorney who is looking to retire soon. The last couple weeks he has sat down with me to tell me that I need to eliminate prepositions from my writing, and something about how he prefers to use adverbs (I have notes on this – can’t recall off the top of my head)

    Here’s the kicker – when I left his office, I had to look up what a preposition is, and I sort of know what an adverb is, but not really. Needless to say, I’m trash at MadLibs. Let’s assume he is right and making these changes long term will improve my writing. My question to you all is – how do I get caught up on, and fix, some of these basic grammar issues? Has anyone else found resources (other than buying a grade school workbook)? I know that everyone has a different style, and mine has taken me far, but I want to change.

    1. ESL books? Most people I know learned formal grammar while studying Spanish or German in school.

    2. An advert modifies a verb and can be anywhere in a sentence (but pls don’t split infinitives). Jane ran quickly to the tree.

      Warriner’s Grammar. I had it in 7th grade? I still have it. And try to diagram sentences (this is in one of the Little House books and is so, so valuable).

        1. Yes to diagramming sentences. I had to do it in seventh grade and it was so valuable.

      1. “Don’t split infinitives” is not a real rule, even though your grade school teachers taught it over and over again.

        1. I think it’s a distraction to some readers and avoiding being awkward is also a skill (to boldly go, to go boldly vs boldly to go), so it’s just refining your writing in a way that is true to your voice.

          1. It is an unfortunate distraction to most of those readers because their teachers gave them a false rule. I am here to finally and definitively correct that wrong.

          2. It’s more distracting when people write a tortured sentence to avoid splitting an infinitive, though…

    3. I am not sure this is a “you” problem so much as a “him” problem. I have read a lot of books about grammar and style, and they all say to minimize adjectives and adverbs. I haven’t heard of eliminating prepositions unless they are at the end of a sentence. It sounds like he has some idiosyncrasies about writing. Just wait for him to retire and go back to writing the way you usually do. You could read Strunk and White for kicks (it’s a pretty short read), but I don’t think you need to study up on grammar. You are fine.

      1. Seconded. During my big law days I worked with one of the top appellate litigators in the nation and this person always always always took adverbs out of writing, and it has benefited my writing to this day. Fine to do it for this partner, but my unsolicited advice is to really be careful about applying this to all of your writing (which sounds like it is wonderful as is but for this individual’s odd preferences).

      2. It’s definitely a “him” problem. Counterpoint, it would be good for you to learn what an adverb is. It’s fairly basic to learn the parts of speech and won’t take up a lot of your time, and you’ll be glad to know what a preposition is. My high school English teacher used a very old (even at the time) workbook called Writing Good Sentences by Claude Faulkner. You can get it online for $20.

        This may sound a little simplistic, but you could also try a grade school grammar book– most people learned the parts of speech (what is an adverb, what is a preposition) in elementary school. It may be as simple as working through a 3rd grade workbook about the parts of speech. They also make fun card match games (match “quickly” with “adverb,” match “over” with “preposition,” etc. You obviously already know how to use words correctly; you’re just learning what to call the words.

        As an aside, your boss’ input is weird… you have to use prepositions. Prepositions describe where a thing (a noun or pronoun) is in relation to another thing. You can’t eliminate them. “He hit the ball OVER the fence.” “She went THROUGH the door.” There’s no other way to say things that require a preposition. He may have meant, and poorly articulated, that he wants you to stop using prepositions at the end of a sentence. That is a common expectation, although an oft-debated one. It is a holdover from Latin, in which there is a rule that you cannot use a preposition at the end of a sentence. But sometimes in English, it is too cumbersome (see, e.g., when Winston Churchill was criticized for ending a sentence with a preposition and cheekily responded, “That is the sort of thing up with which I will not put!” — as the less awkward but allegedly incorrect construction would be “That is the sort of thing I will not put up with!”, but it ends in a preposition).

      3. I am going to respectfully disagree that it is a “him” issue.
        From my experience, people use too many prepositions.
        The resulting impact is a sentence not as clear/strong as it could be.
        Prepositions are very useful, just don’t overdue.

        One potential resource is Chapter 6 of the SEC’s plain English guidebook.
        https://www.sec.gov/pdf/handbook.pdf

    4. When you read his writing, do you find it superior? If not, this may be a set of personal preferences of his that don’t actually result in better writing. Eliminating all prepositions, especially, seems absurd if not impossible.
      Grammar Girl is not a bad place to go for explanations of usage rules. Guberman and Garner are good legal writing style critics.

    5. I thought I was pretty good at grammar, but I can’t think of anything indicating that prepositions and adverbs are interchangeable. Can you give a little more context for what he’s telling you?

      Also, agree that learning another language strengthens your handle on your original language, but unfortunately Duolingo won’t cover grammar in any way that will be helpful to you. If you want apps/books, I’d go the Rosetta Stone type route. There’s also an English Grammar for Dummies if those books are your jam.

      Lastly, please don’t beat yourself up. One of the smartest people I know speaks very well, but if you ask her why she said “were” instead of “was” or “whom” instead of “who,” she cannot tell you. Even though English grammar is irrational, for native speakers of English it’s also just sort of…there, in your brain. Most people, I would argue, don’t know or don’t remember the ins and outs of all the rules, and yet they use them correctly all the time.

      1. Yep, exactly this on the second paragraph, it’s crazy. My paralegal was recently misusing a certain contraction and I knew it was wrong, but didn’t know why. I had to look up why it was wrong before I explained it to her. And then last night my husband and I were discussing order of adjectives (you know, in bed) and I don’t even remember learning them, much less be able to tell you what the proper order is, but you know it when you hear it.

      1. I agree, though I’d recommend Style: Lessons in Clarity and Grace over Strunk and White.

        The Chicago Manual’s section on grammar is honestly the best reference I know for issues of correctness rather than stylistic choice.

    6. Professor here; I teach composition sometimes. Purdue’s OWL (Online Writing Lab) has a lot of great free resources. It’s used pretty widely. The book Sinful Syntax is helpful and a fun read. Grammarly will underline parts of speech, etc, as you write (it’s online); I think there’s a similar app called “Hemingway” as well.

    7. These are resources that I recommend to summer associates/baby attorneys who do not have much experience with legal and persuasive writing. I know you’re in a much different boat, but hope you find some of it helpful:

      Books: There’s a relatively new Elements of Style workbook that might be helpful. I’ve also enjoyed On Writing Well and Plain English for Lawyers. The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation is more nuts and bolts rules as opposed to style.

      Digital: Khan Academy has a comprehensive grammar course that starts off fairly basic and covers everything that you skipped over in school. Grammar Girl’s podcast and YouTube videos are useful as long as you know what you’re looking for. They’re good at teaching you how to apply a rule, but not necessarily at teaching you that a rule exists.

      Good luck and happy writing!

    8. I struggle with this. 46, multiple degrees and I continually write in the passive voice. My new position requires me to email execs in our large corporation, and even though their emails are terrible and sometimes written in text speak (I wish I was kidding), mine have to be top notch. My crutch: I subscribe to the online Grammarly service which grammar checks your writing as you write.

      My husband is a reader and comes from a family of readers. Hopefully, our son inherited his genes for grammar :)

      1. There’s nothing grammatically wrong with writing in the passive voice. Sometimes it’s stylistically clunky or evasive, but it can also help with flow by making it easier to use topic and stress position, which improves clarity. I wouldn’t worry about it.

      2. My boss called me out fur using a sentence started with the adverb “Hopefully”. One has hope etc.. not sure if this is an outdated rule though. I am the same and never actually learned anything about grammer.

      3. (I wish I WERE kidding) Contrary to fact subjunctive, because you are not, in fact, kidding.
        I wonder if the OP is using “of” as in “not that big OF a deal.” Like nails on a chalk board!!

    9. Okay, so this is going to seem out of left field but I think it would be a great resource for you. UT Law’s main writing professor, Wayne Schiess, writes a column for each issue of the Austin Bar Association’s Austin Lawyer that I read often but not consistently. I think his articles could be really helpful–they are tailored to lawyers and address very specific topics similar to those your boss mentioned. I went looking for his name because I always forget how to spell it and his bio page advertises that a book was published gathering those articles. It’s called Legal Writing Nerd and is $22.79 on Amaz*n. Also, if you post a burner email I can dig around and see if I have copies of any of the articles. I used to tear them out and stash them for future reading.

    10. I don’t know how different UK and US grammar are, but “Eats, Shoots, and Leaves” by Lynne Truss is often recommended to people in your situation on our side of the pond.

      One thing that’s been helpful for me is learning what’s a ‘rule’ vs what’s a style choice. I use a lot of commas and that’s just fine.

      1. I have the U.S. edition of “Eats, Shoots and Leaves,” which was re-edited from the UK edition to apply to American grammar and punctuation. Just make sure you’re getting the right one.

      2. Second Eats, Shoots, and Leaves. I used to go round and round with my boss because he thought I used too many commas, and that book finally convinced him it was fine.

    11. I’d ask around and find a freelance copy editor or proofreader and hire him or her to go over one of two of your written pieces with a fine-tooth comb, pointing out everything they see that could be done differently or better. They are paid to know what constitutes good writing.

      This will give you concrete examples of what you’re doing wrong and help you know how to correct these places in the future.

      I was good at school, and inveterate reader, took all the classes, and still didn’t really understand how to detect and fix bad grammar until I began working as an editor, and HAD to learn. I kept checklists of everything I needed to detect in others’ writing, and gradually learned to catch mistakes in my own writing.

      1. Checklists!That is what I want! Thank you and to all the other posters. I want some resources to understand his feedback better and then decide what I need to change.

    12. I work in communications and 10 years later I STILL keep a copy of “working with words” on my desk for quick reference to general rules of the language. I also keep the AP stylebook, which is more occupation specific but may be a useful reference to you as well!

  12. Does anyone have any insight into the programs aimed at women in leadership and management, like Cornell’s online certificate program or the program at Darden? I am interested in moving my career in the direction of management and leadership and am interested in learning whether these type of courses actually teach skills for leadership, management and negotiation. I am a practicing in-house attorney and am looking for ways to take my career to the next level. While law school teaches the law, I do not believe it provides sufficient training to be a leader nor does it teach business skills or acumen.

    1. Srsly, don’t pay for what you can get for free.

      Do you want leadership skills? Then lead something — volunteer work is how I acquired 100% of my leadership skills (sorority, RA, student government –> running law school journal –> junior league, bar association committee in my area, CLEs –> law firm equity partner, in charge of 2 client committees).

      If you can find it in a library, “Anatomy of a Merger” and anything else by the author is instructive in *working with people*, which is a lot of what management and leadership is about.

  13. I seem to thing that what goes with everything is a white shirt. I could own 50 and would want more. Now that we don’t wear formal workwear, it seems to keep me from wasting 20 minutes each morning thinking about what to wear. Now I know: white shirt.

    1. I’m doing that too! I love printed pants/skirts/scarfs and the easiest thing is to pair them with a white, black, or gray shirt. I I feel a little silly when I look at my closet and see multiples of the same shirt, but it works for me.

      1. I can’t wear white shirts but I do the column of color all the time, which is pants or skirt and a top in the same solid color. I have these in black, navy, and gray. It’s so much easier to wear my pretty necklaces and trot out my growing scarf collection this way.

    2. Can you please weigh in on the white shirts you’re wearing that aren’t sheer? Looking for non-sheer, white, non-button up shirts over here. Thanks!

      1. Brooks Brothers for sure, and then I just got a linen, no collar shirt from Talbots. I believe it is a popover now that I think about it but I plan to wear it with bright or patterned skirts and shorts.

  14. Please give me your recommendations for firm or medium firm pillows I can purchase from Amazon. I need them quickly and the options are overwhelming. Thank you!

    1. Here’s the full description from what I bought:

      Utopia Bedding Gusseted Quilted Pillow (2-pack) Premium Quality Bed Pillows – Side Back Sleepers – Blue Guesset Queen – 18×26 inches

    2. I should add, I’m a back sleeper and DH is a side and sometimes back sleeper. I definitely want a pillow on the firmer side. Thanks!

  15. Help me up my snack game. I’ve realized that all of my go-to snacks involve nuts (handful of almonds, Rx bar, toast with peanut butter). I’d like to incorporate some other options and looking for some inspiration. What are some of your favorite easy, filling snacks?

    1. Dried chickpeas are my jam right now, and dried corn. I hope they’re not too similar to nuts, I think they’re less calorie dense at least. Also, I tried this stuff called “dang,” like mini rice cakes with really amazing flavors, I got them from Whole Foods but I wonder if you can get them in other places.

    2. I’m pregnant and have become an expert on snacks. For things I can eat at my desk, I do a lot of yogurt, cheese sticks, beef/turkey jerky, overnight oats, and whole wheat fig newtons. Also hummus and veggies, though that requires some prep.

    3. Apples, oranges, baby carrots, cherry tomatoes, tangerines, bananas, blueberries, cucumbers, strawberries, raisins, celery, clementines…

    4. Hardboiled eggs with everything-but-the-bagel seasoning.

      Hummus with pita. Or sometimes I just make a small wrap with turkey, hummus, and sprouts.

    5. Broth; protein shakes; wasabi peas; wasabi edamame; english cucumber slices with pink salt; watermelon; berries; baby carrots; apples

    6. Greek yogurt, dry roasted peanuts, dried chickpeas, organic chewy banana bites, Skinny Dipped almonds, green grapes, watermelon, protein shakes. I also like the Hillshire Farms snack pack things – they are six bagel rounds, six pieces of a deli meat (I like the rosemary chicken and the chipotle chicken) and six pieces of cheese. A friend of mine calls my office the motherlode of snacks.

    7. In addition to all the suggestions- TJ’s sundried tomatoes. I have a pack in my desk at all times.

  16. DH and I are on financial track to buy a home next April/May. Our August lease is nearly up and we’re trying to decide how long to renew. For our $2,100/month place, the price difference is hundreds of dollars a month extra between renewing for 9 months and 12 months and going month to month adds $1,000 to our rent. In other words, we’re nervous about going for the 9 month renewal and then going month to month for a very long time and throwing away money but we’re also nervous that we’ll be paying a mortgage and rent if we overshoot. Any advice as to when we should start looking for a house and can reasonably expect to need to move out to align our timing? We’re in the DC area where houses come on the market all the time but also get purchased quickly.

    1. What’s the penalty for breaking your lease early? It might be better to go with the longer lease and break it, over going with the shorter one and then buying something you don’t absolutely love because you need to get out of your apartment.

      1. +1. Our rent and month to month cost is similar to yours, and our early termination fee is 2 months rent. With our timing, it would always be cheaper to just pay the early termination fee then go month-to-month for 6+ months.

    2. Is there anything in your lease that allows you to sublease, or could you add that? What’s the penalty for breaking your lease?

      I would probably renew at 12 months and make peace with the fact that you might pay 2-3 months of rent in exchange for having a little more breathing room while house-hunting. If you think you will find a house in late April/early May, you wouldn’t close until sometime in June, so you might only be out July’s rent. Or you might want to hold off on moving for a few weeks in case the place you buy needs work (painting, hardwood refinishing, any renovations are all way easier in a vacant property).

    3. Do the year. Even if you find a place in April/May, it will take a month or so to close and then you want some breathing room to move in. When I bought my first house we were all set to move in on the weekend after we closed, but the sellers suddenly exercised their right to “rent back” the house for one or two weeks because they weren’t ready to move yet. And our lease on our apartment was up. We were really lucky the landlord didn’t have anyone moving in right away and let us extend, though they charged us highway robbery rates to do so (and they had to reschedule some contractors.)

      So say you find a place in May. You negotiate a bit and get into contract June 1. You have a 30 day escrow. That’s July 1. It’s very nice to have a window where you have both places available to you while you do some fix up stuff to the new house and move in.

    4. I’m in the DC area and it took us about a year from getting a real estate agent to moving in to a new place. We just paid the lease termination fee. We gave one month’s notice and then paid a one month termination fee so they had 2 months to find someone new.

      I’d give yourself more time rather than less. You want to be able to take your time buying a new place, and the amount of money you’ll spend terminating a lease is peanuts compared to what you’re paying to buy a place.

  17. Please talk me down. I think I am at my limit. Every day I am bullied by my boss’ boss (she has a reputation for being a bully), and my boss does nothing about it even though she knows how unhappy I am and we talk about how awful my boss’ boss is being. I have never quit a job before without having something else lined up. I know it’s stupid. I have been looking for other jobs for a few months now, but nothing yet. I just don’t know how much longer I can go on like this.

    1. Do you have money saved up that could tide you over?
      I would try to stick it out if you can. I’ve been in your situation before. Don’t let the b*stards get you down. Keep a low profile with your bosses boss and just ride it out.

      1. I actually have a tattoo with those words (Don’t let the b*stards get you down)…I am going to try my best to remember it!

    2. Does your company have a hotline? Is there someone you can complain to higher up that you’re boss, what about HR? Personally I would not give them the satisfaction of resigning. Talk to an attorney. If you’ve complained and they haven’t done anything about it, your attorney could send them a demand letter. Who knows, they might give you a severance/$ for you to leave. And if not, then you plan to resign anyway. I work in HR and I see this happen a lot. The company is at risk b/c an employee complains but nothing happens; they’re usually happy to pay to make the employee go away peacefully (you’ll have to sign a release).

    3. I have heard this story so many times, it is criminal. You need to get away from your boss’s boss for your own health, she will never change. Could you go above her head or to someone equivalent in another department to enquire about a sideways move out of her team? Failing that you need to jump ship but only you can decide if that is sensible for you financially without having something else lined up. If not, I would stay out of her way as much as you can and do everything you can to make your mental health top priority until you can get the hell out of there. So sorry this is happening. Remember your worth, she is the one with the problem.

      1. Thank you for the kind words, I appreciate it. Unfortunately it’s a small company and there’s no where else to go. I have been trying to stay out of her way as much as possible (hard when she emails me 100 times a day). On the bright side I have a vacation booked in a couple weeks.

      2. Yes, I agree with this. There is well-known bully in my office, who is in upper administration. He has driven off numerous people (most of whom were torn to shreds mentally and emotionally by the time they left). It is so, so wrong and I hate that it goes unchecked.

        Your boss may not be sharing this with you, but I wouldn’t surprise if he/she is the bully’s victim, too. That’s usually how these things roll.

    4. Your employer may have an Employee Assistance Program (EAP) through their health insurance plan where you can call and get financial/mental health counseling anonymously. Talk to recruiters. Reward yourself for getting through each day. Remember that this isn’t personal – she is like this with everyone – so try to detach your feelings from the situation. I had a psycho-nutso boss like this, and she ruled the (small) company via her abuse. It’s awful and you will get out. In the meantime, take a step back, don’t expect your boss to fix any of this (she’s definitely a victim, too) and take it as an opportunity to take a giant step back emotionally and create tons of distance between your personal feelings and your on the job experiences. This will come in handy down the line.
      Also, you are totally sane, it’s the environment that is insane. By stepping out mentally now, you preserve your sense of self. Take notes of all the red flags you missed, and be aware of them when you are interviewing. Worst case scenario is to jump out of the pan and into the fire because you are desperate (been there! super awful!).
      Lastly, hugs. You will get through this.

      1. Thank you very much. It is much appreciated. There were no red flags until a couple months ago when I had to start working more closely with Grandboss when my former boss resigned and a new one was hired. Then I found out that my former boss resigned in part because of how he was treated…sigh. I know I shouldn’t take it personally but it’s hard when I am treated like I’m stupid on a daily basis.

    5. I went through this, but in biglaw. I set a time at which I was going to quit even if I didn’t find a job and even though my husband was unemployed at the time. I was suffering physical and mental health problems due to my job, so it had to be done. I gave myself 6 months. I found a job at month 5, but I was prepared to quit regardless.

  18. Anyone here use laser treatment and/or dermarolling (by a derm) for acne scars? I have residual ice pick scars from severe acne on my cheeks and forehead. How many sessions did it take for you, and did you get the results you were hoping for?

    1. I am currently in the process of dermarolling (Dermapen, specifically) at a medispa. I have done one session on my face where I have moderate ice pick scars and I was very pleased with the initial results (smoother skin, less indented, skin looks clearer). I will be doing more sessions on my face but for now I am focusing on dermarolling my shoulders where I have my most severe scars. I’ve done two sessions and can already see a difference! I highly recommend it

  19. I’m a bit ashamed that my direct reports have been pegged as the “mean girls” at our office and then me by virtue of being their manager. When a fellow manager that we are all friends with made the comment I thought he was joking and we all laughed. Then last week, a coworker was let go (bad fit for the role). I thought highly of this person both personally and professionally. Instead of expressing any empathy my direct reports have been acting callous about it. First they nicknamed this person Fred Flintstone, which I probably should have said something about. Then my direct report telling someone else about the firing: “I guess Fred has gone back to Bedrock.” This man has 7 children to support. His team here is now leaderless and demotivated. I feel like my direct reports are being entitled brats. They have been at our company for 15 years and have never experienced unemployment. This man loses his job and they’re cracking jokes in the hall. I encourage a fun atmosphere in our team but I feel like they’ve gone too far… how do I reel them back in?

    1. Have you done anything at all so far? You’re the boss – it’s time to act like it. “Hey, it’s inappropriate to make jokes about employees who have lost their jobs. I expect you to remain professional at all times when you’re in the office.” That took me 10 seconds to come up with. Go do it!

      1. + 1, as the victim of the mean girls club at my last job, this is the time to lay down the law. Before you know it, the teasing will become rumor starting. Ask me how I know.

        1. +2. Being the boss means that you’re the one who has to tell them to get their act together, even if it means a few people are unhappy with you. This is reality.

    2. One good approach when someone is making s sarcastic joke is to ask questions like “why do you say that?”
      Or in this case “you mean because he has seven children to feed?”

      If the shame doesn’t work then shame them directly – since you’re their boss tell them that is unprofessional and inappropriate.

    3. By being an adult! You are responsible for this. Speak up and tell them to quit it.

    4. I agree that shutting this down is a core part of what you should be doing as a boss. I know what kind of behaviour you’re talking about, and have some bad news/good news: you’re not going to be able to shut this down and still be “one of the crew.” Your team will include you less in edgy in-jokes and you will be less cool. The good news is that they will respect you more. I think that’s one of the unseen sacrifices in deciding to be a (good) manager – you don’t get the camaraderie and coolness being part of the group, and it can be a bit lonely. But you can make the environment good for everyone, and that’s one of the things I love about being in leadership.
      In terms of practical advice, I would make this a one-on-one conversation with the “ringleader” team members. Whoever made those comments, you could bring it up and let them know you think the comments were hurtful and unprofessional, and that you need them to hold back on comments like that next time. It can be as simple as that, and then move on once you get agreement from them. I usually close with a “Thanks. I really appreciate your willingness to help me change the tone.” or something similar.
      It’s tempting to make this an all-hands conversation, but in my experience, those don’t really land. Looking someone in the eye and asking for their help often does. I also look to my second-in-command (explicit or implicit) employees to help me spread the respectful attitude. If someone is the next “me,” I make it clear that they need to value respect and professionalism as highly as I do. If they don’t, I call them out on it, and if they don’t improve, they’re not my successor and I find someone else to mentor.

  20. Question for those familiar with academia: a good friend’s husband found out his tenure was denied. This came as a shock (I don’t know anything about the process, but apparently all indicators were positive). This is a huge blow to him, and their family. Anything I can say or do (or NOT say and do) that would be helpful/meaningful? I’m going to see them this weekend.

    1. It’s kind of you to be asking about this. To be denied tenure is to be fired in a very public way. It can also be humiliating and enraging, as in this case when the person thought they were safe. Academic departments are tiny communities, so it may also feel personal; you’re being fired by your friends and mentors. To add to the stress, academic hiring happens on a specific schedule, and by this time of year almost no jobs are still open for next year. So your friend’s husband is likely unemployed for the near future.

      I suggest just listening and expressing lots of empathy. I would advise against asking any questions about what’s next for him or for the family–it’s probably extremely overwhelming right now. They have to worry about where to live, income source, and his professional future all at once.

      1. +1, except: he’s probably not unemployed – a person denied tenure usually can stay one more year at the tenure-denying institution and be on the job market the next year, although that year may be uncomfortable and many folks try to move on if they can.

        1. +1 – he’s not currently unemployed, he will be at his institution through spring 2020. It is very awkward though.

      2. I agree with everything said here. I would add that, in some fields, the chances of ever getting another shot at tenure are low. The perspective can be that it’s too high risk to hire on the tenure track someone who has ever been denied tenure before. At least in the humanities, it can mean a lot more than being fired; it can mean the end of one’s career in academia.

        I’ve actually seen people do better if they were obviously not going to make tenure through their own fault (since they were able to land a job before going up for tenure review and experiencing the stigma of denial). Being blindsided is a worst case scenario, and it can happen to excellent scholars for irrational reasons. I genuinely hope his field will allow him to bounce back, but it could be a matter of luck, so I would steer clear of any discussion of his future at all.

      3. Yes, it is absolutely humiliating and the year of terminal contract is extremely awkward. However, he can scale back on things like service because he doesn’t owe them anything and can be actively on the job market. We have an extremely robust pre-tenure review system, so not getting tenure would never be a surprise. Has he appealed? Normally, if you are turned down anywhere down the line, you can appeal to the University Rank and Tenure Committee.

        1. It can be a surprise. I have seen a case where the department and dean strongly supported tenure and it got stopped by the provost. The provost normally isn’t involved in pre-tenure review, so it was a shock to pretty much everyone. Of course in that case, where it’s a really strong candidate and many people feel the tenure denial was unfair, the person generally will do ok on the job market and get another TT or tenured position. But it’s still a really horrible thing to have to go through.

          1. In our case, that person would probably have it overturned on appeal. The URTC makes a recommendation to the president.

          2. I definitely know of faculty at my current and previous institutions who were surprised when their tenure was denied. It’s not common, but it happens.

    2. As a piggyback question, I am not in academia and am fascinated by the idea of tenure. Can any academics here please explain to me the policy behind tenure? I understand that it is job security for life. What I am curious about is why it exists only in academia (as far as I know). In most any other industry, I think, you can have a great job but could also theoretically be fired. Even a law partner could be asked to leave, bought out, etc. I am interested to understand why Universities are willing to give academics (professors? are there other people who get tenure?) this lifelong security– aren’t the schools undertaking a risk that the person may not always be so wonderful? I hope none of this comes across as critical, I just genuinely don’t understand and would like to. As someone in another industry, I’m used to the world of job security being tied directly to current performance, “what have you done for me lately,” etc. Thanks for any insight!

      1. Yes, you’re correct about someone turning out to be not so wonderful. However, there are two things behind tenure:

        (1) If someone has a proven research track record, tenure gives them the security to take on higher-risk, higher-reward research in the future. If you don’t give people security, they will be afraid to take on research that might not pan out because they might be fired.
        (2) At least in my field, academia pays a lot less than industry. If you want people to take lower pay, you need to give them something else, namely job security (and flexibility).

      2. Not in academia, but would like to dispel the notion that tenured professors cannot be fired. It is extremely difficult, yes, but the professor does not “own” the position. Firing would typically only take place in extreme situations like plagiarizing their major publications, rape or assault of a student, felony fraud against the university, etc. In practice, sometimes they don’t get fired for these things or are pushed to resign to save for both them and the university.

        1. Right. Tenure means you can’t get fired because the economy crashes and the university budget is tightened or because a new department chair comes in and doesn’t think your research is that important. It doesn’t mean you can’t be fired for serious academic misconduct, criminal conduct, inappropriate sexual behavior, etc. My husband is a professor and two tenured professors were fired in his department just in the ~5 years he’s been working there (one for academic fraud, one for showing up to class drunk). It happens.

      3. The usual rationale for tenure is that it safeguards innovative research from establishment backlash. I’m not sure this always works, since one good way to make tenure is to please the establishment, but that’s part of the background to the tradition. (And it’s not obsolete; I doubt that heliocentrism would have fared any better in 2019 if it were equally revolutionary an idea; without safeguards, institutions resist change.)

        Insofar as making tenure means you are there to stay, there’s more motivation from the university and your department to invest resources in you. Recently tenured professors still require mentoring. Most young professor’s scholarship is still a bit amateurish compared to what they’ll achieve in their fifties if they make it. The system is designed to help them make it so they contribute as much as they can to their fields.

        I’m not sure you know that, once you’ve made tenure, there’s a entire other list of accomplishments and requirements that are necessary to make full professor. By the time somebody has made full professor, they’re pretty well adapted to the lifestyle. I’ve seen dozens of full professors and even emeriti (retired faculty) burning the midnight oil for every story I’ve heard about a full professor who has completely checked out (and who may be being protected not by the tenure system but by university politics anyway; you can still be fired after you’ve achieved tenure).

      4. Getting tenure is more akin to being moved from a temporary contract to a permanent job. In theory, you can still be fired for cause and laid off if funding is cut. Also, even after tenure, your salary and resources strongly depend on your hustling (getting funding, networking etc.).
        In reality, performance based firing after tenure is not done. Firing for egregious misconduct used to never be done, but the incentives are shifting slowly.

      5. The justification is that tenure promotes academic freedom. A tenured professor doesn’t have to worry about getting fired if the administration doesn’t like her research.

        From a practical point of view, tenure is market for tippy top professors. You’re not getting a star without tenure. However, a lot of institutions are getting around tenure (and other costs of tenure track profs) by hiring more and more adjuncts, who typically have 0 job security and aren’t paid well.

        1. Also along these lines, tenure sounds great in theory, but the reality is that it’s extremely difficult for anyone but superstar tenured professors to change academic jobs. You invest decades in graduate school, postdoctoral training, and then 6 years in a tenure track position, which means you’re super specialized and it’s not all that easy to switch to something else. If you don’t get tenure, there’s a good chance you won’t be able to ever get another job that makes use of 20 years of experience. If you do get tenure, you have a job for life, but you better like it, because senior level hires are rare unless you have tons of grant money or want to take administrative positions. Given how hard it is to find a tenure track position in the first place, there’s a good chance your job is in a location you hate, thousands of miles away from family or maybe even your spouse. While the move to poorly paid adjuncts is also bad, I think a more freely moving market without tenure might actually be better than locking everyone in place.

      6. Honestly, in my most recent situation, it has meant that a COO on the warpath could not fire me, despite my fighting back on staff cuts. I could go toe-to-toe with this horrible human being and just take the screaming, but knowing that my job was protected. However, I’m in a dual administrative/faculty role, so YMMV.

    3. As the wife of an academic, I think the best thing you can do is just not offer suggestions, regardless of how well-intentioned they may be. Statements like “oh, I’m so sorry to hear that, but don’t worry, you’ll find another job” might be ok to make to a laid-off lawyer, because it’s likely true. An academic who is denied tenure probably won’t find another job, at least not in his chosen field (being a professor), and hearing someone outside academia tell you that you will is adding salt in the wound, because you know they have absolutely no idea what they’re talking about. One of the most frustrating things to me about being an academic spouse is how little people outside this world understand it. My friends try to give advice to me about various things and it just drives me crazy because the academic world is so different than the ‘real’ world.
      You’re very kind to think about this in advance!

      1. This is what I hate about academics. You work for peanuts, then you are protected for life or your career may well be over. Or you are an adjunct and could make more and have better benefits as a law firm secretary (that you didn’t need even a BA, much less a PhD, to get). It is just a complete joke (so not sure how colleges can charge $$$ for tuition when they are happy to outsource so much undergrad teaching to poorly-paid contract workers).

        And that tenure –> research . . . please. How much research is getting done b/c it is really doing something vs just publishing for the sake of publishing. Some historical research is interesting reading, but it’s not like people are out there curing cancer or diabetes or something with clear utility to the rest of the world.

        1. Huh? Lots and lots of academics are helping cure cancer and other major diseases, and making major breakthroughs in other fields. Who exactly do think is working on cancer research if not biology professors? And you don’t make “peanuts” if you’re a tenured professor, especially in a STEM field – my husband makes about $150k, which is more than I make as a lawyer in our small college town.

      2. All of this. I am in a university staff position, and so many of the usual rules just do not apply. Especially in the case of faculty. I feel terrible for anyone denied tenure; in most cases, it truly is the end of the road. I saw family friends go through this, and it was brutal. It was a shock and surprise to them, too. The appeal process was awful and went nowhere. Departmental politics ruled the day, unfortunately. They have a lot of hard feelings toward the university.

      3. Agreed (wife of a professor).

        This will impact your friend. If her husband can only find a job ten states away, they may pack up and move, or he can be un/under-employed where they are now.

  21. hey. so I’m the OP from yesterday and from a post a few weeks ago. i 1) moved states and got a new job 3 months ago to move in with my bf of 3 years, 2) then suddenly found out he didn’t want kids and tried couples counseling, and then 3) this memorial day weekend found out he had been cheating on me (specifically with girls who don’t want kids, go figure.)

    i want to thank everyone who has been supportive. i’ve been a lurker on here for years but never really had reason to post until now.

    i’m trying to approach this is the most constructive fashion and am looking for any and all advice about 1) getting over a break up, specifically when cheated on, and 2) trying to make a social circle in this new city since i don’t know anyone. here’s what i have done and am planning to do:

    – i got a new apartment and am moving in tomorrow. for job reasons i can’t move home or to another city quickly but i found a good enough lease and the apartment seems great. i was able to take a personal day for the move.
    – i reached out to the one semi-friend in the area i have who is also a coworker, we got dinner together two nights ago and i think we’re going to do more social things going forward.
    – once i’m moved in i’m going to go to the gym in my building a lot more to get endorphins, have a distraction, and just overall to feel better about myself.
    – i read something online about missing physical touch after a break up and it suggested massages, so i’m going to start getting those.
    – i already meditate every once in a while but i’m going to try to commit to at least once a week to start.
    – because of a long range of life circumstances (my parents cooking for me at home, then living in a sorority house with a live in chef, then boyfriends who always loved to cook) i’ve never really learned to cook besides like, spaghetti. so i’m going to try really reallllly beginners cooking as a type of hobby. any suggestions for beginner – and i mean BEGINNER, like i don’t even know how to make a chicken breast – would be helpful.
    – i already reached out to meet-up groups when i first moved here and actually started a trivia meet-up myself but it’s kind of died down recently, so i’m going to re-reach out and try to start it back up as a way to make friends.
    – i’m already in therapy so i’ll continue going.
    – trying to find distractions from the things i used to do with my bf – we were both tv addicts so now any show i watch reminds me of him. so i want to find new shows that won’t make me think of him and don’t have any romantic elements, so any suggestions on that would be helpful.

    as you can probably tell i’m very list and goal oriented so in these few moments of not-crying, i’m trying to be productive and set myself up to get through this as quickly as possible. so really, any suggestions would be helpful.

    thanks so much in advance.

    1. I wanted to start off by saying you seem like you are doing great in such a tough time and I really feel for you, so big hug! Have you mentioned what state you’re in? I would love to get a drink if you’re in the same area!
      I don’t have a ton of great suggestions, except for gym and cooking. If you’re interested and it fits your budget, going to a workout class might be a good option, especially in making new friends!
      For cooking, I went from barely knowing how to make pasta, to being pretty confident I can make any recipe thrown my way, and it started with a Betty Crocker Cooking Basics cookbook my dad got me in college. I went through and tried to make every single recipe and it taught me some cooking intuition.
      I’m glad you got your own place, thanks for the follow up I was thinking about you!

      1. Thanks so much. I’m in CT and I think I’d be down for a drink sometime but maybe not just yet. Your cookbook suggestion sounds fantastic – that’s exactly what I’m looking for, the basics. I’m going to look it up on Amazon right now.

        1. I actually don’t need mine anymore, but didn’t get rid of it because it taught me to cook and I felt bad just donating it where it wouldn’t be as appreciated…want me to ship it to you? I’m in Michigan so unfortunately not in the area for a drink. This book was great, in 7 years I went from oil catching on fire in my kitchen to hosting Thanksgiving and Christmas at my house this last year. My burner email is abbycorporette at google mail if you’re interested!

        2. I’m in CT! Stamford to be exact. If you are in the area… and when ready… I’m happy to make new friends. I’m fairly new as well. I’ve only been here for about 3 months.

          1. Hey, I’m actually in Stamford too – and like I said I’ve only been here 3 months as well! At some point in the future I’ll post a comment and send up the signal.

          2. Also in Stamford!! You mentioned your sorority — see if there is an alumnae chapter for your sorority in Fairfield County. In my experience its mostly older woman, but it could open door to different things. Also, the Junior League of Stamford/Norwalk is more laid back than the one in Greenwich and I’ve heard good things.

        3. I grew up in the area and if you have to be in Fairfield county solo, spring and summer are great times! Hit up the beach. Go to the Pequot library book sale this summer in Southport. Take sailing lessons or go SUP boarding. Grab tickets to a show and head into NYC for the night – maybe you know folks there?

          1. Yes to sailing! I have been wanting to do it but summers have been jam packed recently. Check out Longshore Sailing School. It is super reasonably priced.

      2. I also recommend Mark Bittman’s How to Cook Everything (I have both the vegetarian and regular ones, both great). Easy to find inexpensive used on the river store plus most libraries should stock them if you want to check it out.

        Good for you and you got this!

      3. I also like Joy of Cooking for a very basics cookbook. I find that watching cooking shows helps too. I don’t know what’s good right now – I used to like Anne Burrell, the barefoot contessa, and I love anything by Jacques Pepin, though this would be mostly on YouTube now.

        Your list sounds good to me. I guess if you can afford it I’d throw in a few trips back home if you can swing it.

        1. Speaking of Barefoot Contessa– her cookbooks are amazing. The most recent one, Cook Like a Pro, would be wonderful for a beginner. The recipes are easy and most don’t have weird ingredients, and they all taste GREAT.

      4. My husband learned to cook by cooking his way through that exact same Betty Crocker book while we were dating! We still use a few of the recipes.

      5. Another cooking suggestion: check out budget bytes (website) and especially the slow cooker recipes. if you don’t own a crockpot yet I highly recommend getting one they are great for beginners!

    2. This list looks great. Good for you! Thinking about exercise: if you can afford it, I suggest joining a local studio that holds classes and becoming a regular. I have moved around a lot, and am very introverted, and it’s always helped me immensely to have a place to go regularly where people know my name, ask how I am, and notice when I don’t show up. Studio buddies can also become friends, and have for me. If money is tight, studios also frequently exchange free classes for doing reception duties or cleaning.

      1. Thanks so much. I’ve been going to barre classes but am going to try to go more frequently.

        1. I went regularly years ago and noticed that if I went at the same times each day or week, I tended to run into the same people over and over. Also, take your time getting your socks off, shoes on, and things gathered up to go. Little conversations can strike up with people nearby.

          PS You are doing awesome! Hugs!

    3. Agree with Anon at 10:01, you are doing GREAT.

      I’m a self-taught cook, and the one website that helped me the most was Budget Bytes. (Seriously, she doesn’t pay me, I just learned so much from her.) Clear and simple instructions. Step by step photos so you can see what it’s supposed to look like. No crazy ingredients you have to hunt through seven stores to find. Won’t break the bank. Almost everything I’ve ever made from there is a winner. And – and this is a big pet peeve of mine – she doesn’t hoodwink you by listing “1/2 cup chopped onion” in the ingredients list. She lists the onion and then includes the chopping in the instructions and the prep time estimate. It’s a lifesaver. This was my first recipe: https://www.budgetbytes.com/hearty-black-bean-quesadillas/

      Best of luck!

    4. My ex husband left me almost two years ago after having an affair, so I wanted to just say, it stinks for a while. My instinct also was to start doing things to get over it, and when I told my therapist or asked her if she had any advice, she told me to stop and feel my feelings. I wanted to fill up all my time with learning new things and hanging out with friends and work and everything else, but that left no time to process what happened. I started going on long walks to help with that. It was a time when my mind could wander. And staying home sometimes without a plan was also really important for me. I’d schedule a couple of nights each week to meditate or read or sit on my porch swing or whatever else, quietly. To be fair— I also did a lot of more active stuff and was out of the house a lot. I just want to caution you to make sure you’re not doing things to avoid your feelings (which is what I was doing).

      I’m glad you’re already seeing a therapist, and that was crucial for me. Also repeating, “The only way out is through,” to myself, sometimes on a daily basis.

      I still struggle with the effects of being cheated on, and I’m not sure I’ll ever be over that aspect completely. It was the worst experience of my life, BUT now I’m happier than I’ve ever been. You are definitely stronger than you even know and you’ll make it through this.

      1. I have a feeling I’m going to fall into that, definitely trying to avoid my feelings. I think you’re right about making sure I still have alone time to process. I’ll work that in too.

        1. I’m glad to hear that you are recognizing this. I sensed a breathlessness from your original post — almost the feeling that if you could just do all the right things and keep busy enough, you would figure out a way to make the pain go away. Definitely do the healthy things you have in mind, but also recognize that this is going to feel bad, maybe for a long time. It’s a loss, it’s real, and you’re grieving. You’ve been thrown into a major life transition that you didn’t want. Go easy on yourself for a while. Your task right now is Healthy Grieving. That will mix with Building a New Life. But if you try to bypass Healthy Grieving . . . it doesn’t go so well.

          1. Ha, it’s like you’re psychic – 100% breathlessness. Probably a bit of perfectionism thrown in there to just do everything exactly right and it will be fine. But I know that at some point I’ll have to grieve.

          2. About grieving— I wanted it all to be over as quickly as possible as well. One thing that helped me through was to remind myself that I have to grieve. Period. That process takes X amount of time (different for everyone). If I go ahead and give myself space to grieve sooner, then X time period will be over. If I try to gloss over or avoid for a month, that means that X won’t be over for an additional month. That thought helped me feel like processing and feeling sad and angry was productive and moving me toward my ultimate goal.

      2. I really like the idea of a walk or hike. Hiking can sound intimidating but can just be a walk in the woods. Looking at nature has always been soothing for me and I’ve seen research in the past few years that it actually lowers stress levels.

    5. All the hugs.

      What about taking cooking classes as a way to both meet new people and learn to cook?

      1. Yeah that’s a great idea too! Adding to my list, hopefully I can find some around here.

    6. On the cooking front, I recommend a cookbook called How to Boil Water by the Food Network. Lots of basic tips and recipes (like a helpful “here’s how long to cook X vegetable and should you boil or roast it” chart). Other advice–don’t be afraid to modify recipes if you try it and something isn’t working (this is my husband’s downfall on cooking). For example, there is a salmon recipe in said cookbook I love with a dill-lemon salt rub. It’s way too salty if you use the amount in the recipe. Cut it by a third.

    7. I come from a long line of dreadful cooks, but I can pass along to you that my sister got into the old Rachael Ray show “30 Minute Meals” in the mid-2000s and she learned a lot of basics about cooking that we did not learn at home. It appears that they are all available to watch for free on Food Network. Maybe this would also scratch the itch of wanting to watch some TV when you get home from work? There are 794 episodes! https://watch.foodnetwork.com/tv-shows/30-minute-meals-with-rachael-ray/

      Also, you have done a great job getting to a safe place. Good for you!

      1. Rachael Ray recipes from that era are great for beginners! 30 minute meals 2 is still my favorite book from her.

    8. You are going to be fine! You are doing all the right things here, you sound like such a strong person!

      My only addition would be to allow yourself to feel sad sometimes, it is natural and you need to process your emotions. And don’t beat yourself up if you don’t achieve everything on your list, give yourself a pat on the back for anything you DO manage whilst going through this hard time.

      The other piece of breakup advice I love is that you are not back to scratch, everything you have learned from this relationship has brought you one step closer to finding that perfect person when you are ready.

      Big hugs!

    9. Get a grip. Go to work and come home. Unpack your apartment. Do you really need a 97 item task list?

      1. Wow. What an unkind, thoughtless thing to say. You sound like a bitter, pathetic, shallow excuse of a person, and I’m thankful that I don’t have to live whatever miserable life you have every day.

      2. Hey this is unnecessary. It works for her, why would you be rude if it doesn’t add anything helpful?

      3. Isn’t it interesting that Anonymous is always out here telling us to be an adult, let it go, and get a thicker skin? #bethechange

    10. I can’t help with the life stuff – but I can recommend a cookbook. There’s a series that started with The Roasting Tin by Rukmini Iyer. All of the recipes have photographs (which makes a huge difference in knowing what to aim for) and they almost all consist of combining a bunch of things and putting them in the oven for a while. Super simple.

    11. Good job making moves and taking care of yourself. You’re doing all of the right things. As for cooking, Rachel Ray was how I learned back in the day. However, sometimes cooking for 1 can be a tad daunting. I think some of those meal kit services would actually be good for you so that you’re not buying too much of any one ingredient and you’re trying lots of new things. You’ll get enough for leftovers but not too much. Lots of love to you.

    12. Echoing the above saying great job taking care of yourself. I’m a big fan of exercise to help in these situations, but you seem to have that under control.

      One thing that I don’t think has been mentioned yet is start volunteering for a cause you care about. It’s an instant set of new friends and gives you a sense of purpose outside of work and relationships.

    13. The good news is, chicken breasts are very simple and easy to learn how to work with! I recommend getting a bag or two of Purdue Perfect Portions, they’re really easy to store, easy to work with and come with directions. Get some seasoning mixes and marinades you like – I like lemon pepper, koren BBQ, Stubb’s marinades (avoid the one for chicken, it tastes like barf, the one for beef works well for chicken) – follow the instructions on the packaging to give the chicken some flavor, preheat the oven to 350, put the meat on a greased baking sheet (foil is your friend for easy cleanup), 8-10 mins on each side, let it rest a few minutes. Pair it with rice and fresh veggies for a balanced meal.
      You could also start with using pre-marinated or pre-seasoned chicken from the store, they often come with instructions.
      Once you get the hang of that, prepping fish in the oven is very similar, but the temps and times will vary. Google is your friend for this!
      In college, I also learned how amazing Near East’s rice pilaf and Mexican rice boxes are. Super easy to prep on the stove top. Also, “boil in bag” rice is good when you’re getting started.

    14. I am so glad you posted an update because I was thinking of you this week. It sounds like you are taking all the right steps trying to move forward and are being strong. Just make sure you are being kind to yourself and giving yourself permission to feel terrible and fall apart a little on days when you need it without coming down on yourself. My”comfort shows” from times of turmoil tend to be things I watched during college or law school with resilient female leads like Greys, Gilmore Girls, or Veronica Mars. Also recommend Friday Night Lights, the Bold Type, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, and Younger for something more fluffy.

      Continuing to send good vibes in your direction.

      1. I haven’t watched these other shows, but I couldn’t watch Mrs. Maisel until about a year after because infidelity is a huge part of the plot. I know the point is that she is working to overcome it, but it made me too sad to enjoy the show the first time I tried to watch it.

    15. All the hugs to you! It sucks. I always think it’s so amazing that many of the people you see walking down the street have been through a divorce or bad breakup, and it is a plain miracle that they are all up walking around in one piece. And you are and you will be, too, kp. As I always say, the only way out is through and you are doing so well!

      My two cents: My Rotary Club has been a miracle for me after my divorce. Whole new group of wonderful friends, great service projects, and I even met my amazing husband there. So I’d definitely recommend checking out your local service clubs or nonprofits for volunteer opportunities.

      Also, I love How to Cook Without a Book by Pam Anderson for beginning cooks. It teaches you the techniques you’ll need to know, like cooking that chicken breast.

      More hugs! This time next year things will be so much better!

    16. You have a lot of great suggestions here. I’d just add not to forget about letting yourself feel anger, in particular. This guy was really deceptive to you, over a not-short period of time. You may want to let yourself express anger in ways that are cathartic or productive (boxing lessons, watching films where women get revenge, etc.).

    17. I recently learned how to bake a chicken, and it is delicious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2leEwcDhXo I used this video to truss the chicken (tie it up) so it cooks really evenly.
      Roasted veggies, corn on the cob, and cornbread are all delish sides – top off with some bbq sauce and you have a delish summer meal.
      I use youtube and google for recipe basics constantly. I watch a few videos, take a bit from each, and go from there.
      You’ve got this.

      1. Oh, yes! Videos are great. Just google “how to dice a potato” or “how to cook a chicken breast” or whatever and watch the video.

  22. What shoes would you wear for a day trip to DC? I’m anticipating a lot of walking so I figured I’d wear my comfy Brooks running shoes, but I’m also afraid my feet will be hot in socks and sneakers. I don’t have any sandals that would be suitable for all day wear – I find my Rainbow sandals very comfortable but they aren’t supportive enough for all day walking. I thought maybe I’d wear the sneakers and bring the sandals in my bag in case I want to change.

    Any other comments about day trips in DC are welcome. I think so far we are going to hit the Newseum and either the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History or American History. I want to add in an art museum but not sure which one is best. Also intrigued by the National Museum of Women in the Arts.

    1. Go to the National Gallery of Art, East Wing. That is where I went on dates when I was in law school, as it is very modern. You should wear Nike Air’s with white socks that are cushioney, as it is hot in DC in the summer, and you do not want your feet to stink. Good luck to you! You can also walk from there to the Capital Building and see where the Congressmen work (or not).

    2. I would wear socks and sneakers. Yes, your feet will be hot outside, but if you’re going to the museums you’ll be inside most of the time so heat will be a short term thing. Walking comfort is key.

    3. Can’t help much with the shoes, although I find the Rockport and Earth brand sandals to be very supportive.

      The Renwick is a fun art gallery, they have more avant garde stuff, usually. It’s part of the Smithsonian system, so it’s free. If you are near it, it’s worth just walking into Air and Space for a few minutes – there are a bunch of planes and things hanging in the lobby, so you don’t have to go far in to see things.

      You didn’t ask about food, but about a block away from the Renwick is Joe’s Stone Crab and they have a very nice happy hour – little crab cake sandwiches! Jaleo’s is always good, too – Spanish tapas by Jose Andres, who is about one of the best people in DC.

    4. I wouldn’t not wear the sneakers because it is hot. People run in socks and sneakers in 100 degree weather! I don’t think you’ll notice that your feet are warm (or stuffy) until you stop for the day. That’s when having sandals in your purse is a great solution!

    5. My feet get really sweaty in DC so I always wear sandals, but just wear whatever is comfortable.

      I love the Portrait Gallery — it’s not on the mall but an easy walk from there, and you see all of the Presidents’ portraits which is fun. The new African American museum is great, but the only way to get tickets is to wake up that morning early, go online, and request same day tickets on the dot at 6:30 am. I also love visiting the Supreme Court. They have a small but very informative exhibit and you can go upstairs and see the actual courtroom, which is really cool.

      Food: Zaytinya for an amazing and reasonably priced lunch (they have a $22 three course lunch special), Rasika for excellent Indian, Teaism for a faster but very good casual lunch. Good fast food places are Roti, District Taco, and Rice Bar around Metro Center. The Native American museum also has a good food court, as does the African American museum. Avoid the food courts at the other museums, they are pretty bad. There are also lots of food trucks around the mall, but I haven’t found them to be good.

      Have fun!

    6. For an art museum, I’d go to the Smithsonian American Art Museum/National Portrait Gallery (2 museums, 1 building, off the Mall in Chinatown but an easy walk from both the American and Natural Museums). It’s open until 7pm, and the rest of the Smithsonians close at 5 so it’s an easy way to extend your day.

      If you want to be headed home by 5, the National Gallery of Art is located in between the Newseum and the American/Natural Museums. It isn’t technically a Smithsonian, but is free and full of great stuff.

      Sneakers are fine, and I’d save the Naitonal Museum for Women in the Arts for another trip – you have enough on your schedule already, and the Newseum is closing for good at the end of the year, so you should do that this trip while you can.

      1. My understanding is that it’s closing due to financial difficulties, but the fact that Newseum is closing in the current political and social climate makes me sad.

        1. This makes me really upset too and I will definitely visit now. Surely some donor can help keep it open?

    7. This will sound silly, but one of the most fun DC things is to pause your tour of the museums/mall and dip your feet in a fountain to cool off. There are plenty of fountains to choose from, so wear the sneakers, be comfortable, and take a fountain break as necessary.

      1. Most of the fountains are at memorials, and I would then find these really offensive

    8. So last year I went to NYC in the height of summer and did a ton of walking on my first day in sandals and it almost crippled me. Every tourist was wearing athleisure and sneakers. The next day I did the same. It was a very good decision.

    9. I wore Birkenstocks and found those very comfortable for tons of walking last summer in DC. Natural History should have the renovated hall of fossils open soon so that’s a draw if you like dinosaurs. American History is great though- star spangled banner, first lady dresses, Julia Childs kitchen, etc.

    10. I love the Portrait Gallery/American Art museum. They share a building and there’s a lovely courtyard to relax in as well.

      I’d second the rec to wear sneakers but pack sandals. At the end of the day it feels amazing to take my shoes off, even if it’s just for the ride home.

  23. This is a super-random, out of left field question: anyone on this board been diagnosed with achalasia? I recently received this diagnosis (well, my doc is 80% sure and I’m having a procedure in July that should confirm one way or another). I’ve been on quite a few online support boards and it seems like this disease can run the gamut. Mostly I’m looking for someone in a corporate/professional job whose role includes client lunches who can tell me it’s gonna be ok…

    1. I don’t have a diagnosis achalasia, but I’ve had various swallowing troubles related to a nervous system disorder.

      I ended up needing both medication and supplemental vitamins and minerals. My neurologist was initially skeptical when I reported that supplements helped (she called it “functional medicine woo”), but I had my endocrinologist’s and PCP’s support. Later It turned out I had some additional GI motility issues that can impair digestion, so it makes more sense now that I need to supplement. I tell this anecdote to encourage you to take advantage of all your resources, since I was surprised how effective I found the interventions that the diagnosing physician didn’t take seriously.

      Another resource that many people find helpful is essentially PT: once you have treatment, you can also get training on the most effective methods of swallowing, if you still need it. They can also share guidelines on the most easily swallowed foods.

      As for lunches, my best strategy is to cultivate a persona that’s consistent with a mysteriously light appetite, but I’ll be interested to see what others say!

      1. Thank you so much for replying! If you happen to see this: how did you find someone who could prescribe supplements for you?

  24. At the last minute, I’m having company over this weekend–dinner for 4. I’m trying to find the perfect main dish that is delicious (and pretty?) but doesn’t make a mess, take too much time, or heat up the kitchen. There will be crudités with ranch for one side, and ice cream for dessert. No dietary restrictions. Ideas?

    1. Kabobs in the grill? Low maintenance, doesn’t require oven, everyone likes grilled veggies, chicken, meat on a stick! Maybe serve with side of pasta salad.

  25. Wedding at a plantation – yes or no? Would you host yours at one? Would you attend one if invited say by a casual friend or work friend?

      1. None. People want to make an issue of everything because OMG RACE. It’s been how many centuries??

        1. The fact that you think it’s ‘centuries’ plural says a lot. It’s been a century and a half since the civil war. Glorification of the slavery era via things like plantation weddings is ongoing.

        2. Or because for some people, the idea of a venue profiting off of a legacy of slavery, and the idea of celebrating someone’s marriage on the same grounds (and in a building that is maintained in the same style) as where black people were beaten, abused, often sexually assaulted, and denied the right to marry themselves, is gross and distasteful.

        3. You have no sense of time and history. My Grandfather’s mother was born to slaves. He is still living and SPOKE TO and has STORIES FROM his grandparents who were slaves. B*tch please chill on that “it was so long ago” and “everything is about race”. Slavery was LITERALLY about enslavement and torture by race. This isn’t a thing you can’t make about race. You know what isn’t about race? Sandwiches. You know what is? Slavery plantations.

        4. Lol right – because black people are not still suffering the effects of centuries of enslavement. There’s something deeply wrong with you. Look inward and fix it.

        5. This is either a t r 0 1 l or a dumb b! t c h – either way, let it die of an0rexia

          1. This is either a t r o l l or someone who desperately needs to reexamine their values, but let’s not wish a debilitating illness or death on them. They’re still a person.

    1. Plantation-style homes are a distinct architectural style. I don’t really see what the problem is – it was the institution of slavery that we’re objecting to, not the structure of the home the owners lived in. I would, however, draw the line at a “Civil War” themed party or wedding held at a plantation in the American South.

      1. I think this is the correct line to be drawn for most people. I also think it highly depends on which plantation. Would I go to a plantation with historical markers that call slaves “workers” and hide try to make its history squeaky clean? Probably not. Would I go to a plantation known for it’s terrifying murderous history and maltreatment of slaves? Probably not (under the same idea of why you don’t throw a party at Auschwitz – respect for the dead a potential haunting ghosts). But would I go to a wedding at a random southern plantation house that probably housed slaves but otherwise is not particularly relevant historically and is now an event venue? Sure why not.

        1. So when you get an invite you’d reply yes/no after researching the venue? Who does that??

          1. Normal people who look at the location of an invite and see “Reception to be held at Johnson Plantation, Springville, Alabama”. It’s context – obviously a named plantation in deep south usually = slaves and is icky and wrong.
            I’d react the same way if someone had a reception at the holocaust museum – it’s just not done due to the history. Anyone who thinks it’s not a big deal clearly doesn’t know the actual atrocities of slavery – often 1/3 to 1/2 of slave cargo died on the way here from terrible unsanitary conditions (or people chucked themselves off the boat in suicide from the experience). Hands and feet were cut off for simple disobedience. Families were separated to control them. Lashings that killed or incapacitated them for days or weeks. Hangings, beating children, forced rape, tongues cut out for insubordination – and so many other terrible things. For 400 years. They weren’t simply free labor chattel, they were tortured and subjugated. It’s one of the worst atrocities in human history. I can’t make light of that by celebrating on top of their graves and torture yards.
            For anyone that wants a good but not super guilt inducing history lesson, the National Museum of African American History and Culture does a fantastic job.

          2. This is totally off topic, but my father in law (who is Jewish and the child of Holocaust survivors) tried to convince us to have our wedding at a Holocaust museum. he thought it would be “honoring his heritage.” DH and I felt super weird about and thought a lot of our guests (many of whom were not Jewish) would be weirded out and really uncomfortable, plus we wanted an outdoor wedding in a more scenic location. But the museum my FIL wanted us to do it at was set up to do weddings, so it is a thing that some people do!

          3. I was once invited to a corporate event at a plantation. I walked in, realized where I was, and walked out.

        2. Sure why not? Uh… because there were enslaved people there? Because slavery was a great evil? (And I say this as somebody who hasn’t given this nearly enough thought until shockingly recently. But when we know better we do better.)

      2. I guess it’s regional, then. I’m in the American south, in a plantation belt, so to speak, and “Plantation Style” isn’t used as a descriptor. Greek Revival or Antebellum are the most common descriptors for historic houses on actual plantations. Around here, the few that retain the original houses are mostly museums and event venues that have in varying ways recognized the labor that built them. I can think of one that I would be okay with,one that I would not, and one now that I think about it, I need to look into further. Most of the large tracts became hunting plantations and have houses that are <30 years old and other than perhaps some land boundaries, retain nothing of their past. Houses built in what others are referring to as "Plantation Style", don't really get labeled a style – they're mostly just big, new tract houses. Descriptions in sales listings usually highlight features – expansive front porch, large windows, etc. Colloquially, the large 20-40 acre subdivisions that cater to horse owners, with huge new houses are often referred to as "Starter Plantations" and that's not a compliment.

        1. Ugh – poor, rushed choice of words. “labor” = the institution of slavery as Anon at 12:31 described it. Thank you, Anon.
          The one house I’ve visited that didn’t gloss over the history, upon checking, actually doesn’t do private events there. The tour goes in great detail about the institution of slavery that allowed it to exist in the first place and its last owner’s work in the Civil Rights movement.
          Upon looking at the websites of the other two similar venues in the area that are popular for events, both thoroughly erase the role of slavery in their existence. So yeah, hard pass, not that I’m getting invited to any weddings by folks who can afford one at either place.

    2. Meant to clarify – in NC – the actual house, not just the style of architecture that can be found in Hawaii or wherever.

      1. If you mean that the wedding venue is a former plantation, absolutely not. If it’s a home in a plantation style, that is fine.

          1. not the above person but of course I would not – what planet do you people live on??? I thought anyone who wasn’t a white supremacist had agreed that slavery was uh – REALLY BAD

          2. Not “Huh” but I would decline an invite. Would you attend a wedding that was held at Auschwitz? It’s disgusting and offensive.

      2. Definitely would not have my own there. Side note, I feel the similarly about photo shoots at memorials (common in DC)–this place is not about you, it is about someone else and their story.

        I would be willing to attend one at a plantation but would seriously side-eye the couple.

      3. wow it is INSANE to me that anyone would even consider this. would you have a wedding on the grounds of auschwitz? NOPE

      4. I wouldn’t do it. I’ve seen a few women on SYTTD (including a couple of African American women) saying that they are having their wedding at a plantation and I am horrified. There was something that came up fairly recently about a bride whose friend was African American and wouldn’t go to her wedding at a plantation. I would not blame her!

        1. If a black couple wants to have a wedding at a plantation that black labor made possible, I think it’s up to them how they feel about that. Excluding everyone but bad white people from enjoying plantations doesn’t feel like progress.

          1. As an African American person, I strong side eye that decision. Just because you’re part of the group that was subjugated doesn’t mean you’re immune from judgment on questionable actions.

          2. Agree. It’s like someone’s Holocaust survivior FIL above who suggest the wedding be at a Holocaust museum. If it’s people using the event to celebrate what has been overcome or respectfully remember the history that’s different that ‘oh, pretty house’.

    3. No way. And I was a bit surprised by the discussion yesterday because I think “plantation-style” is just a description of architecture. But there’s no way I would visit an actual plantation, even if it was for a wedding.

    4. I’d be fine with it either hosting or attending. Sorry but I’m there for the vows, the party, and to see the gorgeous home. But I also don’t think about “systematic racism” or “communities of color” or whatever 24-7. I’m neither white, nor black and frankly just don’t care what happened 150+ years ago — a gorgeous venue is a gorgeous venue.

      1. It must be nice to have the privilege to not think about and not care what happened 150+ years ago – that’s not the case for a lot of us, but then again increased privilege often comes with a lack of empathy and morality, so there you go.

    5. I absolutely would not host my wedding at an actual plantation in the U.S. South any more than I would host my wedding at the site of any other atrocity.

      Attending a wedding of a coworker/acquaintance at a plantation would depend on the circumstances. If the site was full of nostalgia for the antebellum South, I don’t think I could stomach it. If the site took the history seriously and was lead by and benefitted the local African-American community, I’d go.

      1. On second thought, even in the second case, I’d have a hard time going. How could I celebrate and party at a place created to perpetrate atrocities?

    6. If you have your wedding at a historic home in any of the US states that formerly permitted slavery, there are decent odds that enslaved people lived or worked in that house. That said, in general, I think plantations are worse because they were vast enterprises that entirely depended on the enslavement and abuse of human beings, and I can’t see hosting a festive occasion in that kind of place. That’s history that I can’t ignore, and it’s not incidental to the location – it’s central to it.

      1. I think this is where I come down… “Plantation style” architecture, suuure fine whatever that means, but if we’re talking about “a house with historical identity/interest that is derived entirely from its connection to chattel slavery” … ick? why make that choice?

      2. This. People were property in these places. They should be solemn memorials so the history is not forgotten, not celebratory locations.

      3. Yes, this is where I came down. I refused to look at venues that had the word “plantation” in their name, and I live in an area where they aren’t uncommon. We did consider one historic home/museum where enslaved people had formerly lived and worked–but they don’t whitewash it, and they use funding from their event business to support interpretive programming. Like, there is a giant button on their homepage that says “[HISTORIC HOUSE] & SLAVERY.”

    7. I would actually really like to visit a plantation – not one that glosses over the past, but one where you can actually learn about the reality of what life was like for both the owners and slaves. I learn better when I can take my time and walk through a house, see multiple presentations/exhibits, etc. compared to reading in a book. I visited Dachau and found it to be a moving experience. However, no one goes to a wedding for that purpose and absolutely none of the guests will want to be reminded about the reality of the ground they stand on while they’re sipping cocktails and taking Instagram pictures. It’s not the right time or way to visit a plantation. It just isn’t.

      1. OT but Whitney Plantation outside of NOLA is a good one for actually learning about the history/visiting it like a museum. I agree with you that a place like Dachau or a plantation is worth a visit to reflect and learn about history, but shouldn’t be a celebratory location.

    8. Where do we draw the line on this? Would you not attend a wedding at a Catholic Church? Because not even just the recent history of abuse, but the entire history of the chuch is rife with bloodshed and yes, slavery. Anywhere you visit in Europe or Asia that is centuries old probably has been the site of something we would consider an atrocity today.

      I was in favor of removing confederate statues, especially in light of how they came to be put up (an interesting story that is mainly about capitalism) but do we burn down old plantations? Do we burn down the history of the US? They can’t all become museums to teach us about the ills of slavery.

      1. Honestly, no, I’m not super comfortable in a Catholic church either, but I see a distinction because it’s important to Catholic people to get married in their place of worship and I can understand why someone might overlook atrocities so they can celebrate in the tradition of their faith. Nobody NEEDS to get married at a plantation as part of their religious faith. They just want to because it’s pretty, and that’s a really stupid reason to have you wedding in an offensive place.

        1. many people are as devoted to their whiteness as a religious person is their faith – including lots of “respectable” folks. this thread is a great example of that.

      2. No, you don’t burn them down, but you don’t celebrate at them either. I always cringe when people want to get married in the Catholic church for the reasons you mentioned and more and I hope that those weddings will go by the wayside one day. For me, I draw the line at very specific, clear locations, like Auschwitz or a huge Southern plantation or a field where mass shootings occurred, where the history is well-known and understood. I agree you can’t possibly find a place anywhere in the world that has NO bloodshed in its history, but you can at least find places that aren’t specifically and exclusively sites of horror.

        1. Right – churches have done a lot of bad things but also a lot of good things. Plantations and concentration camps are exclusively sites of atrocities.

          1. The bad things are well documented. The “good” things are a matter of opinion.

          2. At a minimum, faith has provided billions of people with a great deal of comfort, happiness and support. That is an objectively good thing (I say this as a non-religious person, ethnically non-Christian person).

        2. As a Catholic, I find that to be incredibly offensive. My faith serves the poor, provides medical care, visits the sick and imprisoned, and is a beacon of hope to the oppressed.

          No human insistitution is without its flaws. There are 1.2 billion Catholics in the world and the religion has existed for 2,000 years. You don’t get to point to the few bad apples and say that I don’t have a right to my faith.

          Get. Over. Yourself.

          1. I’m not the person you’re responding to, but it’s not just some “bad apples” – the Catholic Church has centuries of scandal and abuse behind it that it has never properly accounted for. Ongoing scandals include the absolutely shameful stances on abortion, contraception, and gay marriage that are direct contributors to extreme human suffering (to say nothing of the ongoing sexual abuse scandal(s)). Some see a plantation home as a thing of beauty just as you see your faith as a beacon to the oppressed, or they view a slaveowner who was cruel as a “bad apple” compared to those that may have been kind. We have very, very different ways of understanding the fundamental nature of the Catholic church, but I hope you can understand that the issues with the Catholic church are far more grave and systematic than a few “bad apples.”

      3. Do we burn down the history of the US?
        – no, you don’t burn it down. You learn it. For far too long, it’s been a romanticized version of what actually happen. Leave this sites as historical monuments to learn about what happened there.

        And with regards to the Catholic Church – in my city after the criminal trials were over, they torn down the orphanage where hundreds of boys were abused. There is a now a small memorial park near a playground, and a subdivision of affordable housing where new, happy memories can be made.

        The only way to prevent atrocities from happening again is to learn and know history, as ugly and uncomfortable as it might be to face.

          1. Right but I’m not familiar with what has/has not occurred in respect of other locations so I gave an example from my city that could be used in many other places. Churches are places of worship. Orphanages etc can be torn down or repurposed.

            And the fact that we don’t do a good job about remembering the role of the Catholic Church in atrocities committed, for example, against Indigenous people in North and South America doesn’t mean that it’s a good idea to have a wedding at a Plantation. Perfection is the enemy of good. We don’t have to walk the path of addressing all historical injustices on exactly the same timeline.

          2. I’m not the OP, but the Inquisition and, in California, the Missions’ treatment of Native Americans, are two atrocities.

    9. I am very politically liberal, grew up and live in the SEUS. I have attended weddings at plantations. I have also toured plantations for historical value. The “plantations” I’ve attended weddings at are generally pre-antebellum homes with nice gardens that may have some historical value because of the people that lived there but were not really working plantations. I am sure there were slaves that worked there (and generally that is acknowledged), but generally it was like a few house slaves. None of these homes would have been considered “plantations” at the time. Normally, the name “plantation” was given to the home at some point because that term became trendy at some point to refer to a lavish home.

      What I don’t think most people understand (and I really did not) is that a real working plantation where atrocities would have been committed is not lavish at all. I toured plantations on “Plantation Road” in Louisiana a few years ago. These were all very wealthy sugar plantations. The majority of the homes are small. There were definitely atrocities committed against slaves on these properties, and when you tour them, you realize that most of the properties changed hands several times because later generations did not want anything to do with how people were being treated on the plantation. Also, due to the nature of the work, the houses that were really working plantations really were different than the “party houses.” They were the commercial farms of their time, and the lifestyle was really not glamorous. In other words, my experience has been that houses that were real working plantations with a history of slavery are generally not the same as the venues where people are having weddings.

      1. It’s ok because it was just “a few house slaves”?? Good lord, I can’t believe some of the responses here.

        1. Not endorsing slavery, but there is a difference to me between a house where there were house slaves who stayed with the family after they were freed and got paid as servants, etc. vs. where there are accounts of slaves being treated like the guy in 12 Years a Slave. The latter to me feels like a former concentration camp. The former does not.

          1. The former should. Where the heck were they going to go? And the ‘staying’ in the antebellum period was not always voluntary in practice.

          2. I think this is a distinction without much of a difference. Former slaves sometimes stayed with their owners because they didn’t have great options, since we never did 40 acres and a mule (or anything else that would help them establish autonomy). It’s not like they had savings to buy property or anything.

        2. Right? OMFG – I’m sure that those ‘house slaves’ were totally fine with being owned, sold away from their families, raped or otherwise s.assaulted/beaten etc.

        3. If you refuse to go to any happy event at a location that previously had slaves, you are in a fact refusing to go to any happy event at a historic site. That may be a decision you’re OK with, but let’s be honest about it – There are a lot of historic sites that we don’t associate with slavery (both in the North and South), but which house slaves.

          1. “you are in a fact refusing to go to any happy event at a historic site”
            This is not true at all. Plenty of historic sites do not have a history associated with slavery.

            If one avoids plantations, at least it is avoiding the structures which were purposefully built and used specifically to support and propogate slavery.

          2. Right– presidential homes come to mind. For those of you refusing to attend any happy event on a property that housed slaves, you would also have to include Mount Vernon, Monticello, and the Hermitage (though Jackson is obviously icky for other reasons) in that.

          3. Anon @3:01 – this is a real question. What historic sites in the US do not have a connection with slavery? I can’t think of any site from 150 years ago that doesn’t have a connection

    10. Absolutely not.

      A few years ago I stayed overnight in a big antebellum manor-turned-B & B in Natchez and I’ve regretted it ever since. Would not make that mistake again.

        1. No, actually it was handled quite sensitively. It was this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunleith and they actually talked a lot about how one of the its occupants went on to become one of the first African-American congressmen. It’s just that in retrospect I feel icky sleeping in the room where the slaveholders slept. I mean, it was gorgeous and at the time I liked it but it left me feeling… icky.

    11. Sure. I can’t change the past, I can only impact today and the future. Millions of people are enslaved today, and that’s where the effort and focus should be. This whole discussion sounds like virtual signaling to me, but I’d be married in the Catholic church, so there’s that.

      1. Not virtue signalling, at all. I am white, my husband is black. The idea of the two of us attending an event at a former plantation together is repugnant. My husband was born and raised in Georgia, and he hates them, hates the idea of them, and would not attend a friends wedding at one at all. I 100 percent agree with him.

      2. I did consider whether it comes across as protesting too much to take a big stand on “never visiting a plantation” when living in an exclusive neighborhood in a first world country with great schools and posting on a shopping blog. They have those websites that calculate how much forced labor goes into a first world lifestyle (child labor, prison labor, but also slave labor). And that’s not even counting the migrant labor that largely feeds us. I strongly believe that race-based slavery in the US was uniquely twisted and harmful and not comparable to many forms of forced labor that exist today. But I also think we distance ourselves from the ways that we benefit from exploitation now.

        1. I agree with this. It’s important to contextualize a visit to a plantation and ensure respectful, thorough knowledge of the actual history that took place, but it’s not like declaring a blanket ban on ever visiting one is proof that you are 100% against slavery. Exploitation and slavery are far too entwined in everything that is produced in the modern world for any one human to completely distance themselves from the institution. It’s not even just slavery that goes into a first world lifestyle – domestic slavery is alive and well in low-income lifestyles too. Middle-class families around the world often have domestic “laborers” who are one step above slaves and that distinction is pretty meaningless. Getting paid a few dollars isn’t really better than getting paid none.

    12. I wouldn’t. I like the idea of an estate wedding, and slavery wasn’t a big thing up where I live, but this is a good reminder that if I do decide to go for an old building I should probably do some research on the history.
      As for whether I’d attend a plantation wedding, I’m gonna go with probably not. It wouldn’t feel right, and I’d have to take time off and travel to that part of the country, it wouldn’t be worth it to me. Deal-breaker for someone who isn’t a close friend or family member, and I can’t imagine anyone I’m that close with who would choose a plantation as a venue. If a cousin did, theoretically, make that choice, I’d have to really think about it, and would probably talk it over with my partner, and my immediate family.
      I’m not sure, for those who are going “OMG WHAT’S THE BIG DEAL?”, why it’s a bit problem that some people wouldn’t choose a venue like that, and why people would choose not to attend a wedding at a venue like this. People decline wedding invitations for all sorts of reasons, and then just cite too much travel, scheduling conflicts, or lack of time off, so why is *this* a horrible reason not to attend? And why is it bad that people would consciously choose not to have one at a plantation? There’s lots of different kinds of venues out there, and people choose venues for all sorts of reasons, many of those reasons are personal and reflect the couple’s shared values and interests.
      I don’t think anyone here is advocating for the plantations to be burned down, unless I missed something in an earlier thread, we’re just saying hey maybe we don’t use them as wedding venues, but you do you, no one here is gonna come to your wedding and shut it down.

    13. Reading through the replies here has made an impact. I live in the SEUS and literally drive by a plantation two times a day on my work commute. My son was a junior docent at another plantation (albeit one with more national historical significance) a couple of weeks ago. We take out-of-town guests (who usually request) it to a couple of nearby plantations for tours. All to say, they’re so common here I don’t think much about them (insert the comment that I dripping in privilege). But all four of these sites tackle the slavery topic head-on, addressing its realities and its importance in creating wealth for the families that owned them. It’s a lot easier to imagine what life was like for a 19th century slave when standing in a cotton field under the hot sun.

      All 4 of these places also host events. I’ve never been to a wedding at one, but have certainly attended other types of events. The revenues from event rentals go to historical preservation and educational programs, which is OK by me.

      I guess it comes down to how you view these vestiges of the antebellum past: should we preserve them as part of our collective history and learn the lessons from them, or burn them down and move on? While I skew liberal on a lot of things, I’m solidly in the former camp here.

      1. I’m all for keeping them up as museums and historical places so we can learn from them, or at least some of them. I just don’t think they’re appropriate wedding venues, which is what the OP originally asked. I don’t think that consciously choosing against having your wedding at a plantation, or choosing not to attend one at such a venue, necessarily means you want to burn the place down, or that you’re against historical preservation.

        1. A lot of times the money from renting them out as a venue helps cover the cost of keeping them as museums and historical places. Governments and individuals aren’t exactly forking over donations sufficient to keep up with the upkeep on all the historical places in this country. It’s a complicated question.

  26. Does your company have a hotline? Is there someone you can complain to higher up that you’re boss, what about HR? Personally I would not give them the satisfaction of resigning. Talk to an attorney. If you’ve complained and they haven’t done anything about it, your attorney could send them a demand letter. Who knows, they might give you a severance/$ for you to leave. And if not, then you plan to resign anyway. I work in HR and I see this happen a lot. The company is at risk b/c an employee complains but nothing happens; they’re usually happy to pay to make the employee go away peacefully (you’ll have to sign a release).

  27. Shoutout to the professional ladies who helped me determine that the stegosaurus is, in fact, my favorite dinosaur.

    I had forgotten about the Thagomizer until I read about it again on reddit the other day, so I thought I’d share this here for your enjoyment, on the off chance you hadn’t seen it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thagomizer

    As I am also a major Far Side fan, this only serves to further cement my choice of the Stegosaurus as the Best Dinosaur.

    I’m glad we cover the really important topics around here.

  28. Gary Larson was a childhood hero. We lived in an area rife with celebrities, and he was the only one who really mattered ;).

    1. I didn’t read the above comment and when I saw this post, I thought he died! Glad to see he is still alive and well.

    2. I wrote him a letter and he answered. It meant so much to me as a teen.

      Anyway, the Thagomizer isn’t the only thing named for the cartoons. There are species named after him too.

  29. Ballpark salary range? NYC non profit — it’s small with 5-6 attorneys (though more policy people etc.). The position I’m looking at is for a deputy director of litigation, so it sits below the legal director in hierarchy. Looking at their filings, the legal director was paid $138k last year, so I have to imagine this position MUST pay lower than that but any guesses how much lower exactly? I’d be coming out of biglaw with 5-6 years litigation experience so I’m not super senior but not right out of law school either.

    Would you guess over 100k? Over 120k?

    1. Does that mean the position is two levels below the director? If so, I certainly wouldn’t think it would be over $120.

      I have a similar level of experience to you, and work two levels below the legal director at my non profit, but in a much lower cost area. I make $30k less than our director (who is at a VP level in the org).

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