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Thursday’s Workwear Report: Notched-Collar Pixie Blazer

A woman wearing a navy blazer, white top, and light blue jeans

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

It looks like Old Navy is back in the suiting game, and this notched-collar blazer would be a perfect piece for someone trying to build (or rebuild!) a work wardrobe. This blazer is machine washable and seems like it’s made to pair with the brand’s collection of Pixie pants, which come in a wide range of cuts. This one comes in black and navy, but there’s also a separate listing for a gray heathered twill version.

The blazer is $58 and comes in regular sizes XS–4X, tall sizes S–XXL, and petite sizes XS–XL.

Sales of note for 12.5

271 Comments

  1. Good morning! Can anyone suggest a tiny roller/spinner suitcase that could go under an airplane seat? I just need enough for 1-2 nights, would like to avoid being dependent on checking or overhead space in a pinch. Thanks!

      1. Personally, I couldn’t. I wouldn’t want to schlep a work bag and a backpack, and once you add toiletries, I’d need more than a backpack.

        1. The rollaboards that fit under seats are *tiny*. There are definitely backpacks with larger capacity.

          1. You still have the schlepping issue though. I’ve always gotten overhead space for a small roller board too, and even if you gate check, it’s still getting on the plane.

          2. Oh yeah, I’m team rollaboard myself. I don’t check, but always take a regular carry-on suitcase when I travel. I just don’t understand the purpose of buying a special suitcase designed to fit under the seat in front of me, especially for just one trip. If I thought overhead bin space would be an issue, I would just pay for priority boarding – much cheaper than a new suitcase.

      2. Backpacks have better capacity but OP could have a mobility issue. I needed roller bags only for a year after a car accident.

        I would rather take a normal sized carry on and gate check it if overhead space is an issue.

      1. I have the 2018 smallest away suit are )bought before the scandal) and I dont think it would fit under a seat.

        3. Away makes an underseat bag, but I agree it’s not actually going to fit in the underseat area in most planes. I think that’s the case with a lot of luggage sold as underseat. And the big planes generally have plenty of overhead bin space anyway. The bin space is mainly an issue on regional jets, and foot room is very limited on those planes too.

        1. It looks weirdly cute. Like I’d stick googly eyes on it (if it wasn’t SIX HUNDRED FIFTY DOLLARS)

      2. Is Tumi really worth it? I couldn’t imagine spending that much on one piece of luggage.

    5. I’ve gone through a couple of these little half-suitcases and realised I hate them. They’re too small to pack my overnight stuff in along with all my tech and other stuff so I end up carrying a substantial tote bag as well. They’re too large to get into once they’re under the seat.
      I either cram everything into a Tumi briefcase for a single day trip, or I bring an overnight bag if it’s more than a day.
      The only time I was happy to have a wheeling half-suitcase was when I broke my arm and had to carry my laptops in it (I used the Kipling wheeled working bag and it was ok. Good organisation but heavy!)
      My main advise is to check the weight of the bags you’re looking at. You’d be surprised how much heavier some are than the non-wheeled version.

    6. I have this Rick Steves bag and I swear it’s like the TARDIS from Doctor Who — it’s bigger on the inside! It fits under the seat and you could definitely put enough in there for 1-2 nights if you were willing to re-wear some clothes. (Although I don’t know why you wouldn’t just use a roller bag and put it in the upper compartment.)

      https://store.ricksteves.com/shop/p/flight-bag

        1. I carry it on and use it for my “second piece” along wtih a medium-sized suitcase, which I check.

    8. I have a bag like this from LL Bean. It fits almost all plane seats, and I can easily fit 2 – 3 days’ worth of clothes in it. The overhead bin in smaller planes will often not accommodate a traditional roller suitcase, and airlines will make you gate check it but bring it up to the jetway after the flight. Waiting for your suitcase as you deplane can make the difference between making your connection or not when it’s tight!

    9. I have an under-the seat bag. I use it sometimes when the back pack is too heavy. It is, IMHO, too small for overnights. Go take a look at at them at a TJ Maxx and see what you think. I have always asked someone to lift my bag into the overhead bins and people are happy to help.

    10. I have a bag like this from LL Bean. The only seat it doesn’t fit under is the small plane with a single seat in one row. It won’t fit under the single seat. I can fit 2 – 3 days worth of clothes in there. It’s a great option because I can still put my workbag over the handle when going through the airport. Also, it’s great for the times when they are gate-checking all roller suitcases (usually the case on smaller planes) because they bring those bags up to the jetway after you deplane. That wait time can mean a missed connection if it’s tight!

    11. I would get a Samsonite underseater.
      My absolutes would be less than 2 kg weight, and minimum 20 litre volume, preferably 25-28. Travelpro also has a couple great options, but they are generally slightly more heavy.

      20 litres is enough for 1-2 nights, but not a good space for a suit jacket, if you need to pack one. Rolling garment bags have men’s hanger width and are too wide for underseat.

    13. I had a rolling case for day trips that held my laptop and a bunch of files. It technically fit under the seat in front of me but not without a lot of shoving, and then I had zero leg room. It would have worked as an overnight case if I’d had no laptop and packed very lightly. It was a lot like the one others have linked.

      In the end I got rid of it. I prefer a tote I can store under the seat for take off, then pull out and put behind my knees so that I can extend my legs into the leg area.

      And DO NOT get me started on men who fill up their designated underseat area and then decide to put one of their feet into mine.

  2. Over the summer, I ended a year-long relationship with a good guy who ultimately just wasn’t right for me. He did not want to break up and was pretty devasted by it. We had a few closure talks after the break up conversation but haven’t spoken at all since August.

    Late last week, I lost a dear, dear friend, and am struggling with whether or not to reach out to my ex to tell him directly. We hung out a handful of times with my friend and her husband, and he attended their engagement party and wedding with me. If the relationship had ended in a more low key way, I wouldn’t think twice and definitely would tell him, but I’m nervous that he will either be like “I’m sorry for your loss but why are you telling me this” or that getting back in touch will give him false hope that I’m trying to open up a line of communication again. The end of the relationship was very, very hard for him and I don’t want to open up any old wounds, but I do feel he deserves to hear the news directly as he shared in a very important moment in my friend’s life.

    He and my friend’s husband still follow each other on social media, so if my friend’s husband chooses to share the news of her passing on that platform, my ex will see it that way. If my friend’s husband chooses not to share the news there, I don’t think my ex would ever find out. He doesn’t have a relationship with anyone in my life besides social media follows.

    Any advice?

    1. Honestly in these circumstances I wouldn’t reach out. Whilst it may feel to you he shared in an important moment in your friend’s life, for him it was probably just one in a sea of weddings he’s attended. I think it may feel like you’re vulnerable and seeking support by reaching out to him and I think that’s an unfair position to put him in.

      3. Thank you for the perspective–your last point is exactly what I am concerned about too. I don’t want him to think I’m seeking support or condolences, or view it as an opportunity to stay in touch.

      4. +1 OP what you are considering would be using him to help process your own loss. Just don’t do it.

    2. If he’s not close enough with the deceased’s friends and family to hear this organically from anyone besides you, I don’t see why you need to be the messenger.

      I am sorry for your loss.

      1. Agree with this, plus it would be pretty weird for your friend’s husband to make absolutely no mention of the fact that his wife passed. I’m sorry for the loss of your friend, OP.

        1. Vicky Austin–to clarify, he would never just go ahead with posting without acknowledging it, but he’s not a big social media guy as-is and I could see him just abandoning his accounts

          But I hear you and Anon @ 9:16 loud and clear, thank you.

    3. Don’t reach out. He’ll find out and there’s no good reason for you to tell him anyway. That is just false hope. In reading this I’m wondering if you’re looking for an excuse to get back together.

      1. Sounds like she is the dumper and doesn’t want him back, but she wants to process her friend’s loss. As I stated above, she needs to stay away and keep quiet.

    4. Don’t reach out. I’m confused why you think the husband is going to continue a social media presence without ever mentioning that his wife passed?

      Your ex barely knows these people. It’s fine for him to find out on social media.

      Very sorry for your loss. It’s okay to focus on yourself and not worry about your ex.

      1. My friend’s husband has a limited social media presence and there are some sensitive circumstances around her passing (unrelated to him or their relationship) that will make communicating her passing particularly painful. I think he almost certainly will say something but I could also see him just abandoning SM all together.

        “Barely knew them” is a little harsh–my ex definitely had a friendly relationship with my friend and her husband which is why I’ve been struggling with this. But all these thoughtful responses have definitely helped me see that communicating it directly is not the move.

        1. A “friendly relationship” doesn’t mean an actual friendship. Your ex will either find out or not. He will not be annoyed that you didn’t tell him.

          1. Yeah, if you skied every weekend together or had a summer share or something like that, different story.

          2. +1, this is a key point. If you had natural regular interaction where it would make sense to mention it, certainly you should. If you don’t speak at all, it’s very odd to reach out just to convey this news.

        2. Not really the main point but I just wanted to say that I wouldn’t think it’s weird if the husband didn’t put anything on social media. I didn’t when my husband died. I’m just not a big social media user and rarely post anything, and it’s not like people didn’t know. People definitely found out, in multiple ways. That just wasn’t how I wanted to communicate it.

    5. I would share because I would want to know if I was in your ex’s position. But I don’t know that there is a right or wrong answer here. I am very sorry for your loss.

    6. What is the goal of reaching out? It’s hard to tell but does your Ex have a connection to the deceased outside being your date to their wedding? Do you think he’d be close enough to write a note of condolence or attend the services, independent of you?

      At absolute most I would email him with a factual note: “X passed away last week. Here is a link to the service details. Hope you are well.” That’s it. And I would only pass that asking if you think he would take action with the information (reach out to surviving spouse, attend services, etc).

    8. Don’t reach out. I found out that a friend of an ex-boyfriend had died when I randomly googled him last year. Eventually word gets around, especially if he still follows her husband on social media. Given how difficult the breakup was, it would just be cruel to reopen communication.

    9. I was on the receiving end of something like this- my ex reached out to tell me that their cousin had passed away. I was genuinely sorry for the cousin- I liked him and we had hung out a number of times and also attended their wedding – but honestly I would have preferred for ex not to reach out. We had a painful break up and I went no contact but he kept finding reasons to reach out, which was painful and brought up a lot of difficult emotions for me. I would have preferred to find out on social media if need be. I realize your circumstances may be different and your intentions are good, but I would leave it alone.

      1. This is a very helpful perspective from the other side of the coin, thank you. That makes it really clear to me that it wouldn’t be helpful. I think I was just struggling with what my level of obligation was to communicate it with him directly, but it’s helpful to know that it likely ultimately would be more hurtful to briefly open that communication line up.

    10. I have been in your ex’s shoes. Please leave him be. This is something you want to do for reasons related to you, not because you truly think it’s good for him. Do not contact him. That’s the kind option here.

      1. +1 to this. Don’t dredge up painful feelings for your ex because it will make you feel better.

    11. Are you looking for a reason to get back together?
      I’m sorry for your loss.
      In all honesty, if the only way your ex will find out your friend died is through you or on the chance her husband posts about it then clearly he wasn’t close enough to them for this to matter to him as much as it matters to you.
      Leave him alone and let him get on with his life.

    12. Thanks for all the thoughtful comments–definitely clear that the kinder option is to not reach out. I’m honestly happy to hear everyone telling me not to say anything, as I was dreading it.

      I did want to clarify that I have 0 desire to open up communication with him again or even discuss the situation with him beyond “Hey, this thing happened”. He had a good relationship with my friend and her husband and he shared in a major milestone of their life that happened less than a year ago–I was moreso struggling with what my obligation was to communicate this news to him directly.

      Thank you for all the condolences as well.

      1. I kind of get where you are coming from, but part of a breakup is that you (almost always) loss the friends you made via your ex. I ended an almost 3 year relationship last summer. Sure, I occasionally wonder about some of his friends who I became friends with. But they are no longer my friends, and I haven’t spoken with them since the breakup. it’s no different than how I occasionally wonder what happened to a high school or college friend I’ve lost touch with.

    13. If you’re actually putting your ex’s feelings first, you wouldn’t reach out. Frankly, I don’t quite understand why there is any angst about this. This isn’t someone he has an ongoing relationship with. Had the person not died, chances are they wouldn’t have been close regardless.Not mean or anything but just the fact. It just seems like an excuse to reach out. He has moved on and you should respect that too instead of opening old wounds with little benefit to be gained.

    14. Piling on here: I’m very sorry for your loss, but leave the poor guy alone.

      1. She asked for advice. Super inappropriate advice. Kindness is a better choice.

    15. I reached out to an ex once in similar circumstances and I regretted it. The widow asked friends and family to reach out to anyone who didn’t already know so people wouldn’t have to find out through social media. It was intended to stem the tide of “omg what happened????” headed her way. My ex and the deceased had hung out fairly regularly one on one when we were together. I did the same with some of his friends and I would’ve wanted to know if one of them passed. So I contacted him to let him know. It was a very unpleasant conversation. I think he must’ve thought I was pregnant or had an STD or something because he sounded relieved when I told him my friend died. It was such a gut punch.

    16. The correct answer is to either leave him alone or tell mutual friends and make sure they let him know. If you have no mutual friends, he probably isn’t in the circle that needs to hear about this tragedy.

      Hugs to you.

    17. I’m sorry for your loss. I would not contact your ex. People die. People lose contact. People disappear from your life. This is a part of life. Not all connections are eternal. Many are situational and temporary. It’s not your job to keep him updated about connections that emerged from your former relationship.

  3. What do you wear big giant jackets and sweaters with? I keep thinking — basic skinny jeans and something like the BR Sloanes. But not 2023 big giant pants?

    1. Cropped flare pants or jeans, straight leg pants or jeans that are not skinnys, long 70s style flare pants.

      1. My skinnies are +1 size from my usual size because I don’t like tight clothes. I’m still wearing them because curvy cuts went away in the pandemic (yes, I know Abercrombie sells them but I tried on half the store with no success).

        1. Loft has a few curvy cut jeans. Banana Republic Factory might, too, although I haven’t looked in a while.

        4. Okay, but wasn’t your question what’s current? Even too big skinnies are still going to have a more dated look to them.

          1. This!

            I don’t quite understand why this question keeps coming up when the OP wants the answer to be that they can wear skinny jeans and still look current.

            You can definitely wear skinny jeans! It’s not a big deal. But it’s not going to look on trend. It’s just not. Yes people are still wearing them, and they still look good and well put together. But they’re not on trend.

    2. You absolutely COULD wear them with 2023 big giant pants — volume-with-volume like that is an on-trend look. If you choose to wear it, you’d also be choosing not to care that you’re wearing a silhouette that doesn’t show any of your body shape or isn’t conventionally flattering; that’s not the priority you’d be going after.

      I personally wouldn’t wear that look, because it’s just not me. I’d feel sloppy in it, not trendy. I’d wear the giant sweater or jacket with a non-skinny-fit pair of straight-leg pants. Or perhaps with a pair of wide leg pants made from a very soft material that drapes really well.

      1. you can always do a french tuck to add a bit of definition — I do this with big sweaters and loose trousers, for example. My eye had to get used to it but I now really like it as a work look.

    3. Maybe post a picture of the jacket or sweater so we can see what you mean? I think the extreme oversized is a look best left to the very young or very trendy, but if you’re rocking something moderately oversized maybe we can help. What I’m picturing in my head looks good with monochrome straight leg pant or cropped flair pant and a chunkier shoe, maybe a sleek bun.

  4. recommendations for decent/sturdy but inexpensive carry on bags for my teenage boys. I used my “junior year abroad” backpack for a good decade after and wondering if I should get them something like that, or else a version of roller bag? thoughts? opinions? To clarify looking for ones that go in the overhead, not under the seat like the post above. Thanks!

    1. I’d get them the Eastpak backpacks. They wear really well and are super comfortable. I can pack for 4-5 days, I imagine a teen/college aged boy could go longer.

    2. I’d say just a regular spinner. I have bought a few black spinners at Target (Swiss Gear brand) and they seem just as good as my more expensive Samsonites and Travelpros.

      1. Our Swiss Gears are also holding up beautifully (one was my “junior year abroad” suitcase, in fact!).

    3. I wouldn’t go for a spinner or hard shell case – much harder to store (thinking ahead to small college dorm rooms etc). I’m a massive fan of the ‘surf brands’ for luggage – they all do a version of a ‘clamshell’ (like Away) style rolling suitcase. I’ve had some Quiksilver and Eastpak luggage that’s held up incredibly well to being chucked around trains, plans, and automobiles over the year (I’m still regularly using the Roxy – Quiksilver’s women’s brand – rolling case my parents bought me 16 years ago).
      Two-wheel cases are generally easier than spinners for the kind of travel I do – trains, cities, subways, walking 10-15 minutes at each end on sub-par pavements – so I’m biased.

      The other option would be something like the Osprey Farpoint – much beloved of travel bag aficionados (I have the women’s Fairview and I love it)

      2. Rereading my comment I see that I’ve missed a key detail – the surf brands’ ‘clamshell’ suitcases generally have one hard-sided half and one soft-sided half. It makes them incredibly easy to pack and store.

      3. I’ve been using my Osprey Porter since college (2008ish), but my Eastpak is even older (2002?). Good brands both.

    5. I bought this bag last year, as it is the max overhead bin carryon size for most low cost carriers in Europe, and it’s been great over several international trips I’ve taken. It’s very comfortable to carry on your back (well padded, ultra lightweight when empty so no extra weight). I don’t know that it will last me years and years of constant use, but I certainly think a few trips per year, it should last me several years. And it was very cost effective! https://www.amazon.com/Cabin-Max-Stowaway-40x25x20cm-Underseat/dp/B07ZHGS6TF/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3OXKXOT4YH58Y&keywords=cabin+max+metz&qid=1675956693&refresh=1&sprefix=cabin+max%2Caps%2C258&sr=8-2&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.006c50ae-5d4c-4777-9bc0-4513d670b6bc

    6. Osprey transporters are incredibly rugged. I’ve had mine for a decade and it’s still perfect. Some meet carry-on size limits, and the fact it’s a backpack is nice for travel off the beaten path. Highly recommend, especially for young or fit people. (It can be heavy)
      I’m not sure what your version of inexpensive is though. They’re not super cheap like some of the spinners available, but they’re not luxury prices.

    7. i am using a backpack from the north face that my husband had in **HIGH SCHOOL** from which he graduated in 2000. I decently had it on a ski trip and noticed some fraying on the bottom padding. When I told him, lamenting it was time to let it go, he laughed and said that had been like that since college.

      This thing has done Disney, daytrips, ski trips, the works with our family of 5 and is still going strong.

    8. If they will be traveling internationally, be sure that whatever you purchase meets the carryon size limits that will be applicable. Most are smaller than US carryon maximums.

      1. I don’t know how much this is enforced. I have what I think is a fairly large for the US carry on and have traveled widely in other countries, especially Europe, and never run into any problems. The only incident I can ever recall was 15+ years ago when a British Airways flight attendant told me my “trolley” was too large, but that was because she didn’t think it would fit in the overhead space. I got it in, and everything was fine.

        1. From my experience, the big international carriers don’t enforce unless it genuinely doesn’t fit. However, a lot of inter-European-city air travel is on low cost carriers (out of necessity because they dominate the market), and their enforcement goes from none at all to confirming every bag fits in the sizer and weighs less than the limit for carryons (with $$$ implications if it doesnt meet their limits and you have to gate check it). It seems to be luck of the draw and also how full your flight is.

    9. I still have my Eastpak from high school and it looks great. I’m 43. Truly amazing.

  5. I’m honestly not sure whether ‘Old Navy’ and ‘suiting’ even belong in the same sentence.
    I might be in the minority, but when I think of ‘suiting’ I think of pieces that are high enough quality to justify tailoring for a perfect fit and will last through several years of regular wear and cleaning. Old Navy, on the other hand, is fast fashion that lasts a season or two at most.

    1. Gracious. Not everyone has a big budget. There are students starting out who read this blog. And maybe people who’ve lost or gained weight who need an interim jacket. And then there are the millions of people all around the world who don’t spend thousands on a professional wardrobe. I’m financially comfortable today, but I’ll never, ever forget coming from humbler roots.

      1. This!!! College students without rich parents can certainly get by on old navy for a summer internship.

        1. You can get more professional options at JC Penny or Poshmark. Old Navy is not it.

      2. Gracious, you don’t need a big budget to get quality pieces, and I think anyone who comes from humbler roots would know that.
        Save your condemnation for someone else, I said nothing about price, only quality. Something that Old Navy, in my experience, is not known for.

        1. OK, but you didn’t say that you’d actually experienced ON’s quality letting you down, and there are people all over this thread with anecdotes to the contrary. Also, sometimes you do need a bigger budget for the cash outlay to get a quality piece. You’re doubling down on something that wasn’t a very charitable or accurate take in the first place.

      3. You know the menswear dude on Twitter? He made a great point recently about how in the 90s shaming consumers for their unethical consumption was totally fine — think all the issues around sweatshop labor. But now if you try to say “fast fashion is bad” you get excoriated by people who defend it for being apparently the only option for people with lower incomes. It’s crazy that the left is actually defending these terrible clothes made by terrible companies.

        Anyway, he also has good tips on how to buy quality pieces on a tight budget, and how you can keep them looking nice for a long, long time.

        1. Yes, but people don’t react this way to LOFT or Gap or BR or JCF which is no more ethical, and not really higher quality, than ON. ON just gets sh!t on in these conversations because it’s more affordable.

          These days almost all major mainstream mall brands are poorly made fast fashion garments made in sweatshops with poor labor and environmental practices.

          I really hate when people get high on their anti-Old Navy horse but think nothing about buying from LOFT. Old Navy is viewed as lesser only because it’s affordable.

          1. Yes, this. The focus on Old Navy when LOFT falls apart just as fast or faster is just classism. Old Navy was never Forever 21.

            I’m also not taking advice from a menswear dude on buying quality pieces and keep them looking nice forever. Even when I have maintained the same weight over time, my body has changed shape in ways that men don’t seem to get. It would be awesome if the heirloom pieces I bought when I was younger fit right now, but they just do not, so I’ve moved away from letting buy it for life clothing purchased on consignment and tailored to fit past-me pile up in my closet.

        2. In the 90s, I felt like the frustrating part of the “avoid sweatshop labor” pronouncements was that there wasn’t really a good way to tell what clothes were made in non-sweatshops and what clothes were from sweatshops. Price or country of origin weren’t (and aren’t) always a great indicator of whether something was made at a good place. Even in the USA at the time, there were a number of high-profile sweatshop busts where people were trafficked to a big city then trapped in the factory.

          Even today, a $3 t-shirt might be a loss leader for a store, or the product of a sweatshop, and a $75 t-shirt might be a high-quality, ethically made piece, but it also might be made in a sweatshop. How can I really know?

          To be frank, I think it would be more effective to fine/legislate against/prosecute fast fashion companies for bad practices than to try and shame people out of buying Shein-type clothes.

    2. These days I never wear a full suit, have a big job and a collection of high end blazers that can be paired with slacks for dressier meetings. When I was coming up in the work world though, I had a lot of old navy esque suits. They served a purpose then and I’m sure they still would. First jobs, early career clothes, jobs that are still formal, etc.

    3. As someone who is strictly on an old navy budget (but even ON is getting pricey for me now), I really don’t get the ON will fall apart in a year claims. It’s by no means Brooks Brothers quality or anything, but it’s comparable to Gap, Loft, BR. I have plenty of ON pieces that have lasted me at least 5-7 years, if not longer.

      2. Old Navy has really upped their game in the last few years. Better quality than Target in my recent experience.

        1. I agree. I actually think ON is pretty close to Gap for quality – maybe not jeans, but for tops and athletic wear. I have some leggings I bought from ON in 2020 and they are still just fine.

    4. I have an Old Navy blazer that I’ve been wearing for five years. It’s not the sharpest looking piece, but it’s worked fine for all the biz-caz offices I’ve worked in.

      Fast fashion is its own ethically complicated ball of wax, but the people who make it last are not the problem. And Old Navy quality is pretty good. I’ve had J. Crew stuff fall apart much faster.

      1. Yup. I’ve paid 3x as much for J. Crew tops that got holes after one wear and Old Navy tops that I’ve worn for like five years and counting.

    5. I am on a budget, I need a blazer, and Old Navy pieces last years for me. I didn’t know they had blazers like this now so I will definitely be checking these out!

    6. I find that my Old Navy pieces wear like iron and last forever (like my teen is wearing my 1998 ON fleece). Shein is fast fashion. It is really crazy how good some ON pieces are (but I don’t buy jeans there, but will from Gap and generally like BR). My kids things from there do well also and my kids are not easy on clothes. We get at least 2 kids of wear out of items and then they go to friends in still good shape.

        1. in my experience, the older the garment, the longer it lasts. I have JCrew stuff from the mid 00’s that still looks better than stuff I bought 2 years ago.

          1. +1. Something from the 90s from basically any brand is going to be better quality than something more recent from that brand. This even means looking better at 25 years old than another garment 2 years old. Quality has taken a nosedive basically everywhere and at all price points.

            Right now my only ON items are workout clothes, but they’re holding up great FWIW. I am not in the suits market.

        2. I was going through my “favorite tops” in my head and all three of them are from Old Navy, lol. The oldest is at least four years old.

          OP – yeah, Old Navy suiting isn’t the greatest, but sometimes you just need an inexpensive blazer. We’re not talking about Shein hauls here.

          And if you ARE looking for a cheap blazer but don’t like this one, I had a Kasper one from Macy’s that was incredible. I think I spent less than $70 on it.

      2. I don’t know about that. I have ON leggings I bought last year and both pairs have small holes in them. This is just from regular wear and tear, I didn’t snag them on anything. Of course they were like $10 each and I live in them, so the cost per wear is definitely good. But I wouldn’t expect an Old Navy garment to last a long time.

        1. Get the ON fleece-on-the-inside leggings that are about $20 when not on sale. Those things are gold.

          1. They’d be too hot I think. I work from home and we keep our house pretty warm in the winter.

      3. I find that especially old navy activewear lasts forever, can actually be put in the washing machine and doesn’t pill or get loose threads like my stuff from lululemon. I think it’s just me, but if I look wrong at one of my lululemon items, it immediately pulls or a seam rips.

        1. For whatever reason, ON activewear doesn’t fit me well. Such a bummer, because it’s cute and my sisters swear by its longevity. Athleta, for whatever, reason, fits my body better. At a higher price tag, sigh.

        2. Yes! The quality of Old Navy (and Gap) activewear is much better than Lululemon imo. My Old Navy athletic joggers are super comfy and honestly better than my Lulu ones.

    7. I have plenty of stuff from Old Navy that’s held up for years. I’ve also bought a lot of things from Banana Republic that pilled or developed holes after wearing them once or twice. Now I mostly just buy from Old Navy, which more reliably comes in petite sizes and makes more sense for WFH anyway (not buying suiting from anyone).

    8. I have Old Navy clothes that are 10+ yers old. Some of their items are higher quality than others, and if you take good care of them, they will last.

      1. Right? I got a solid 10+ years and loads of compliments out of a suit from Target. That outfit wore like iron and looked good.

    9. I feel like there’s an entire market of people who need suits, even often, and aren’t well paid. Years ago a friend who worked at enterprise rent a car needed one daily. In my early years as a legal intern I needed them. I like the idea that folks should buy fewer high quality things but practically sometimes people need accessible and affordable professional workwear to just get through their day to day. I’m sure you can thrift and save and shop sales but if you have an interview tomorrow and land your first gig I bet a few affordable suits that you can pick up at old navy would be great.

      There’s also a weird shift where higher paying jobs are no longer as likely to require strictly formal suiting while people in lower paying jobs might still need it. Your friends in the district attorney’s office probably wear suits more than your friends in finance. My dad is a bit of a dandy…fashionisto?…and he always said that fashion challenged people should stick to suiting because it’s easy to look professional without stressing too many details. So on balance I’m glad this is an option.

      1. Right? My $1000/hour lawyer (at work, not my personal lawyer) wears pajamas. But my BIL who is a public servant needs a suit for work. And one that isn’t ruined by some stray mayo or vomit (social services worker who goes to court a lot and has many meals in his car while driving from place to place).

        1. +1. In addition to rental card places, I’ve noticed that some bank branch employees seem to be required to wear suits. Casual dress in some fields has become another perk of being a high-paid professional. Others may need affordable suits for daily wear.

      2. Especially in education (e.g., school administrators) and parts of the legal field, I think there is a LOT of “business attire required” even though people in these jobs are often pretty lower-to-mid-income. Recently I had to buy a boy’s suit in a hurry, and picked through the women’s racks at JC Penney and Macy’s since I was in the mall for the first time in ages. There were some suits/workwear that was appropriate and pretty reasonably priced, but not a whole lot. I can see why someone would get a blazer at Old Navy instead.

    10. I haven’t walked into an Old Navy in a decade and rarely bought from them before that, but this jacket is exactly the kind of thing I would have picked up for my internship in city government in school, probably on my way to the office in a panic.

    13. I have a few ON sheath dresses that have lasted years, wear well, are machine washable and look nice for work.

      TBH I’ve seen posts slamming Macys and JC Penney too, and they have nice, reasonably priced suits and work dresses that hold up well. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  6. Does anyone have a favourite halloumi recipe? I have a block of halloumi that’s set up home in my fridge (it doesn’t expire for another 2 months…) and I can’t think of anything to do with it that I haven’t done with halloumi ten times before.

    2. I’ll assume you’ve done tacos, and grilled on salad. Maybe cubed and air fried with tofu on rice or noodles with any Asian flavors you like? Or toss it into tabouli for extra protein?

    3. I love it tossed in salad – it pairs well with so many fruits & veggies, whether winter (with beets, squash, etc) or summer (grilled peaches mmmm).

    4. – Chopped salad with cherry tomatoes, cucumbers, olive oil, and red wine vinegar
      – On top of avocado toast, maybe with red peppers or pickled onions
      – In a greek pita or sandwich
      – Nando’s has an appetizer where it’s treated like a mozzarella stick with a dipping sauce

      1. Sold! I just got the Cookie and Kate cookbook for my birthday but haven’t worked my way through it yet.

    6. I used to get a sandwich from a restaurant that was grilled halloumi and grilled portabella with spinach and a spicy aioli on a fluffy pita, and it was delightful. I would go out of my way for that sandwich.

    7. Ribena, IIRC you’re in the UK, but for US ‘rettes, where can I find halloumi? I’ve tried Trader Joe’s, Publix, and Kroger with no luck.

      1. I think it is *really* hard to find! A friend of mine in DC found it at Lidl, I think.

        1. We don’t have that in my area, but we do have Aldi. I’ll try there! Thanks, Vicky

      3. Costco, but not consistently. Wegman’s, consistently, but more than 2x the Costco price.

  7. Okay I’m going to describe a series of events and would like to get feedback on whether its concerning or I should chillax about it.

    I have a meeting later today with my horrible, useless boss. I don’t want to get into it but she’s very passive aggressive and not helpful. I am looking for another job.

    I didn’t get much sleep last night. This morning I woke up too late to go to the office and am working from home (which is 100% fine).

    I got up from dining table/desk to sit on my bed (big mistake I know) because I needed to send a text and my phone was in that room. While I was on my phone I sort of zoned out. It was 100% because Im stressed/unhappy about this meeting but it’s not like I was thinking about it – I was literally staring into space, doing literally absolutely nothing, and its difficult mentally for me to snap out of it.

    Eventually I did and started work and its okay. But I definitely do zone out like this often and idk if its an issue or not. I’ve gone to a therapist for anxiety and depression in the past, and overall I’d say I’m much better than before. I also don’t really feel well today – bit of a headache, throat kinda hurts – but don’t know if its because of my radiator or anxiety or actually sick. Tbh I want to take a sick day but rescheduling this meeting would just be more of a pain. I might take off after. I want a nap.

    1. Were you scrolling on social media when you zoned out or just staring at the wall? If the former, I’d say that’s exactly what social media is designed to do, and I feel like a total zombie who can’t stop scrolling when I’m on TikTok (exactly why I deleted it). If you’re just staring into space, that sounds like fatigue / burnout to me. Either way, it sounds like you need some rest. I hope you’re able to get it soon.

      1. Started when scrolling on social media and then changed to basically staring at the wall. Deleting TikTok is a good idea – that action also causes migraines which wouldn’t help. Fatigue / burnout is probably right.

    2. I literally fell asleep in a work call the other day, so that’s where I’m coming from, but I would say this is not something to be hugely concerned about unless it’s happening regularly.

    3. Do you feel rested most days? Despite what media portrays, what you’re describing is how narcolepsy often looks and feels. For many people, it can be a slight moment or two where you have your eyes open and seem awake but you sort of daydream. Might only be a minute. Someone talking with you might not even notice or just perceive that you’re ignoring them. Only mention because the bedroom setting can make it more likely,

      1. I usually do feel rested! One of my childhood friends has narcolepsy and before she was diagnosed she would just space out and people thought she was ignoring them – so I know what you’re talking about – but I don’t think its that.

        I’ve been taking melatonin a lot of nights, maybe that’s playing a role? Once I took too much (5mg) and had like night terrors but when I take a small dose (1mg) it seems to work fine.

    4. I sometimes get this – what I tend to do when I want to take a break is set a 5 or 10 minute timer on my watch so it buzzes and jolts me out of my daydreaming.

    5. What you described sounds normal considering how stressed and unhappy you are with your job. However, you might also consider doing a covid test. It’s going around like wildfire in many areas, and you mentioned symptoms that could be related.

    6. Why don’t you Google “absence seizure” and see if that sounds like you. I went down that rabbithole with my son but decided since he was often eating and actively chewing when he zoned out, it couldn’t be a seizure. But they are a thing.

    7. A little late to the party but… if you usually take meds for anxiety/depression… are you sure you took them today? I get this way when I miss a dose.

    2. Dumb Q. I’ve never used a CD before. We’re selling House A and will use some of the proceeds for a remodel on House B, but it’ll realistically take time to find contractors and there’s no reason we can’t wait a couple months, etc. Would this be a good spot to park to the proceeds of House A until we’re ready to work on House B? This sounds really perfect!

      1. Only if it will be 11 months before you need the money. You can usually get your money out sooner, but there’s a several months of interest penalty. I like the Ally no penalty CDs where you really can take the money out at any time with no penalty and no hassle (it takes 30 seconds online). They’re at 3.85 right now, but they keep going up so I keep closing them and opening new ones at higher rates. You’ll have do the math of what makes more sense for your situation.

      2. There are usually significant fees associated with taking the money out early. It’s probably not the best place unless your money can sit for the duration of the CD, in this case 11 months. But there are tons of CD options out there, you can probably find a shorter one with a similar or only slightly lower interest rate.

      3. Typically a longer CD will have a much better rate. You can review the penalties for early termination. CD rates have gone up so much just recently that it may be worth taking a hit in interest on the longer one. But check how it looks against a high yield savings account.

    4. thanks!
      This was the push I needed to move some money in my Cap One savings that I don’t plan on using in the next year into their CD to get this rate.

    6. Thank you! I just decided to postpone the house hunt and and was starting to wonder what to do with my money in the meantime

  9. After a lot of gentle suggesting and just trying to deal with my DH’s on and off depression, I finally asked him to try therapy a few weeks ago and he said he would because it was important to me. Now it’s been a better part of a month and he has made absolutely no moves towards finding a therapist or making an appointment. He’s seemed to be in an okay place emotionally but I just feel really hurt that he said he would do this for me and then just hasn’t. Am I unreasonable?

    1. No, you most certainly are not being unreasonable.

      (Generally, unreasonable people don’t ask that question.)

    2. Of course you’re not. If it were me, I would find a therapist, make an appointment for him, and order him to go. And if he refused I would be looking at my options…

    3. Whether or not you are being unreasonable isn’t actually the issue.

      Many people who are depressed have trouble finding the energy to do tasks like this. It is an awful, vicious cycle that traps people.

      Ask him if he needs help researching therapists and if there is anything he needs to set up the appointment.

      FWIW, when I struggled with perinatal depression, I asked DH to help me find a doctor (asked my OB for recs) and set up the appointment. Sure maybe he didn’t “have to” and as an adult I should have done it myself… but crippling depression is crippling. It’s kind of like asking someone who lost a limb to walk to the prosthetics shop.

      1. If my DH could’ve done this for me when I was suffering through PPA, it would’ve been a godsend. I just didn’t even think to ask for it because it felt like my own responsibility. I can tell you, though, that I was so ashamed and so overwhelmed that it took me way too long to get help.

      2. I have offered! Sent him a link to the website I use to find therapists and he evne has a list of suggestions from his doctor! I totally get that depression can make it hard to get started

      3. +1 This is the way depression works.

        Also, I like to say that I think of there being two different kinds of depression. There’s depression caused by circumstances or events, like the loss of a job or loved one, and there’s depression the mental illness that exists more or less independently of circumstances. The mental illness depression WANTS to do the right thing but just…can’t; it’s so hard to describe. Treatment for these two types of depression differs. Circumstantial depression benefits from talk therapy – talking out your grief or disappointment or other emotions and helping you move forward. Mental illness depression can benefit from talk therapy – learning to recognize the symptoms, how to counteract down days – but often improves the most with meds. It’s helpful for you to have this understanding so that you can be realistic in what to expect as you and your husband go forward.

    4. I’m sorry, depression is an awful beast. It’s not unreasonable to feel hurt.
      Could you look up a list of providers and share that with your husband? The thought of finding a therapist and making an appointment might be too overwhelming for him at the moment, so if you can get the first part done it could get him over the hump.

    5. A lot of times people here are quick to say ‘jfc why do you do *favor / thing* for your spouse, they are a grown a$$ adult’ (which I mostly find kind of harsh, like one of the nice things about marriage is making an effort to make the other person’s life easier & better…so long as it’s both of you).

      In this case, the next step (figuring out which therapists are in network, whether they’re taking new pts, etc) can be super overwhelming when therapy is supposed to help you with the root cause issue of you struggling with the next step of starting it… so if you do that legwork I bet he will 100% appreciate it and go.

      1. +1. Sometimes this is what being a partner in life is about. DH makes almost all his appointments himself, but last time DH really needed to see a therapist, I actually called myself, checked on the insurance, and made the first appointment. DH went by himself and handled all appointment making going forward, but I did make the first appointment.

    6. Suggest Psychology Today to him…you can search by providers who take your insurance, accepting new patients, your zip code, all kinds of filters. Finding a provider can be overwhelming (speaking from experience).

    7. The best thing anyone has ever done for me was when I was depressed in grad school. A friend walked me into the counseling center and helped me make an appointment. It’s SO overwhelming to try to figure this stuff out when you’re dealing with depression. Help him do it, including making the appointment yourself, if he’s okay with that. If he refuses, that’s different, but it’s completely understandable that getting this done is beyond him right now.

    8. OP here: Thank you all for the validation. I have also struggled with depression so I understand how hard it can be to just get started. I guess part of my frustration is that I sent him a couple links for finding therapists and he has a list of referrals from his doctor that he got last year when he was thinking about going. Short of just literally picking someone for him, which seems difficult, I don’t know what to do

      1. It’s got to be at least as difficult for him, and it’s kind of a crapshoot anyway. A lot of therapists are 100% booked right now, so the next task is probably to figure out who is even taking patients currently. This means a lot of phone calls.

        I think it’s hard to overdo the handholding on something like this. Unless he’s vetoing things and making it harder, I don’t see the problem with scheduling the appointment and even going with him and waiting with him there.

        1. +1. Pick one, ask him if he cares if you call XX doctor to set up an appointment for him, and then do it.

          1. +2 I would pick one for him if he’s unable/unwilling to do so. To be clear, I am generally anti-handling my SO’s medical appointments, but here, where it seems like his depression is affecting his ability to take a step towards treatment, I would help him.

      2. Give him 3 options and let him pick, then schedule an appointment with the winner.
        This would be more work for you, but if he hasn’t done anything in a month, he isn’t going to next month.

      4. I also was given a list of doctors – with phone numbers, couldn’t be simpler – by my PCP for my OCD/anxiety 1.5 years ago…and have never called despite knowing I need help. It is overwhelming to think of even choosing from that list. Make an appt for him.

    10. I am going to suggest you speak to your own therapist about your feelings here. I have struggled with a parent who for twenty years who refuses to get help for their serious depression and I constantly feel like, why don’t they love me enough to do this? I am crying and begging and it’s the only thing I ask and they won’t do it. And yet I feel like if I told my parent they don’t love me, they’d look at me like I am insane and say they love me more than anything. It’s a really hard issue. It’s almost like loving you and being able to seek the help are not tied at all in their minds. For those of us on the receiving end, it feels that way though. I have made zero progress with approaching this with the depressed person but have made some strides with thinking about how I want to act of this for my self.

      1. This is so helpful thank you. I actually just had a consult with a new therapist for myself for exactly these issues

  10. I need a pep talk. My DDs are 2 and 8 months. The 8MO is not sleeping through the night. I need to sleep train her, I have listened to the whole Taking Cara Babies class I bought, I just need to write down the plan, talk to DH, and go for it. It feels so much easier to just get up and nurse but also I am so tired. I haven’t slept more than four hours in a row for 8 months except for maybe 2-3 times. I have a full-time-plus job as a litigator in a small boutique firm (and a big hearing tomorrow) and can barely stop tearing up today with how tired and overwhelmed I am. DH has trouble sleeping due to stress, refuses to take any OTC meds, and our marriage is fine but not great. I have no energy to have a conversation about re-balancing because if I don’t do it the most perfect way, he gets very defensive and we end up talking about him instead of me. I am happy to talk about him and his concerns, but not at the expense of my own. I have an amazing group of mom friends that I met in a second-time-moms class and we text almost daily and I am seeing them tomorrow. But I feel like I am doing worse than all of them and their marriages/partnerships are more supportive. Please tell me it will get better.

    1. It will! Oh my goodness, your plate is SO full. Of course you’re barely hanging in there. I’d just do whatever it takes to survive until you get through your hearing tomorrow. And then you can try to have a low-key weekend (maybe put off the sleep training another week?) to gain back some charge in your batteries.

      And I’d lean on your mom friends when you get to see them! This is what they’re for. Tell them all this. Let them hold you up.

      1. This may not be helpful, but I have always been super annoyed by people refusing to take OTC meds and then complaining constantly of headache or no sleep or whatever. Don’t suffer needlessly, and certainly don’t take it out on the people around you. Not saying you have to deal with that issue right now, of course, but it pushes my buttons.

        1. Honestly, regular use of OTC meds for sleep is not a good idea anyway. Husband needs to work on his issues, probably talk with his doctor, so he can help the OP more.

          1. 100% agree with you for OP’s situation; just airing a relevant-ish pet peeve of mine.

      2. Sleep train the kid after your work deadline :) It takes some time but will work.
        You probably make decent money. I’d consider hiring a night nanny or some weekend help for a month or two, just to get back on your feet. I found we didn’t take vacations the first year or two, so put your money towards something that will help you, even if it seems like a crazy luxury or overpriced.

        Also if you can shift your schedule/your daughter to get five hours straight a night, that’s when I no longer felt crazy. If you get weekend help, maybe you and your husband can both sleep in. He really should be helping more at least 1-2 nights a week even as a bad sleeper.

    2. Hugs. No answer but just want to say I care. My daughter’s kids are your kids’ ages and they are not great sleepers – the younger one doesn’t sleep through the night either and the older one often doesn’t. She has the supportive partner and a job that sounds way less stressful than yours, yet she is still exhausted. The sleep stage will pass and then you will be at a better point to assess your marriage – young kids are very hard on even the perfect marriage.

    3. This is not what you want to hear, but I think things are unlikely to get significantly better unless you leave your husband or you get him to marriage counseling and he shapes up. Yes, your kids ages are pretty much peak difficulty now and taking care of them will be easier in a year or two. But the resentment of a wildly unbalanced marriage just festers and is not going to resolve without major work on your husband’s part.

      1. Agree. The way your husband interacts with you is a huge red flag and it’s not going to get better unless he is really willing to work on it. I was married to a guy like that and I stuck around for 15 years hoping that I could get through to him if I could just approach him in the right way, before I finally realized he just plain didn’t care about me — he only cared about himself.

        So. Yes, the baby part will get better but I’d be very wary about your marriage. And believe me when I say that single parenthood is a whole lot easier than parenting with an uncooperative spouse.

      2. Has your husband been screened for depression? When DH has gone through depressive episodes, it often manifests like what you’re describing– trouble sleeping/tired all the time, general malaise, over defensiveness/argumentativeness, etc.

        1. I had that thought too. But if he refuses to take oven OTC meds, I’m not sure how he’s going to treat his depression, if indeed he has it.

          1. What OTC meds do you expect him to take? I’m not aware of any that are really likely to help with this situation. I’m sympathetic to OP, but it sounds like husband is also genuinely having a hard time.

          2. I’m just quoting OP. She said he refuses to take OTC meds. I could be wrong, but I read it as like he has a headache that takes him out of commission but he won’t take Tylenol to treat it which could then enable him to be more of an equal partner. If someone is reluctant to, e.g., treat a headache with Tylenol, it’s going to be an uphill battle to get them to take anti-depressants. That’s all I’m saying.

    4. Hugs. Everything will get better and easier to deal with when you get sleep. Moms on Call worked for us, it’s a rough week but so worth it.
      What else can you throw money at to take off your plate? Meal prep?

    5. It will get better. You are at SUCH hard ages, and you’re sleep deprived. Is there anyone who could watch the kids this weekend while you take a long nap? Lean on your mom friends for support. I’m guessing you are NOT the only person in that group who is struggling.

      The marriage part is harder. Permission to not have the hard conversations until you’re (slightly) better rested. But in the meantime, do think about concrete things your DH could do to make life a bit easier on everyone. It’s not fair that you have to tell him what you need but it is what it is.

    6. Do the sleep training. Only gets harder as they get older. But make sure your 8 mo isn’t reverse cycling (my 2nd kid reverse cycled bc I wasn’t pumping enough during day to feed her and she made up for it at night). Also, you’re in a really stressful time for a marriage. Little kids are really tough on a marriage. Try to get some date nights so you can have some grown up time together. Make time for gardening too. As difficult as that is when you have an 8 mo who doesn’t sleep through the night…. Remember that a long marriage will cycle through good times and bad. You’re really lucky to have mom friends! Lean into that! Good luck! Juggling parenting, marriage, working and keeping your sanity is virtually impossible. It only gets done bc there is no other option.

    7. Sending love. Hubs also gets like this when overwhelmed; it’s like he’s out of problem solving spoons. Can you get a night nurse and add some formula feeds so you can sleep through (or longer)? Night nurses can help you sleep train so you don’t have to think about it. If you had a doula or a midwife, they will be able to make recommendations.

    8. You HAVE to do sleep training. Getting sleep for yourself needs to be your first priority, and the only way to do that is to get your kid sleeping. Start the sleep training this weekend. In the meantime, can you and your husband switch off nights getting up with the kid? This allows you each to get one full night of sleep every other night, and on the nights you have to get up at least you know that the following night you can sleep without getting up.

      Secondly, you need to address your husband’s lack of treatment for his issues. It is unacceptable to just complain about the issue and not do anything about it. He needs to step it up in this area and the sleep issue area.

    9. In two years there a will be history. Maybe only 18 months!

      A few years ago I had a newborn, a 24 month old that didn’t sleep through the night (and was up for 2 hours 2-4am), and a 5 year old going through a major clingy phase. For 6 months or more I did not have more than 2 hours of consecutive sleep.

      Just keep swimming. You are in survival mode. My youngest is about to go off to kindergarten and I feel like running a victory Iap. FWIW my youngest started sleeping through the night at 7 months, middle took until about 4.5.

      This is normal, it’s terrible, but you’ve got this!

    10. oof, that is really tough. For what it’s worth, 8 mos + 2 year old sounds like practically the most challenging age combo I can think of — it will absolutely get better as they get older

      in the immediate term, is there anything you can do to get some breathing room, even if it’s not sustainable long term — call in any favors, ask a grandparent to come for a long weekend to let you sleep, tell you husband you need him to take the kids for *just this one night* (to let you recover while sidestepping an overall rebalancing conversation), get a cleaning service for the next 6 months even if it’s not in the budget long-term, take a sick day and sleep

    12. If it were me, I would be sleeping with my baby so I did not have to get up to nurse. I know that co-sleeping is controversial but everyone gets their rest and the baby is happy with mom. I would not, however, sleep with a baby with a parent who is taking sleep meds as that can be dangerous.

  12. Thinking about the thread yesterday, thoughts on using pro nouns in a biz context?

    1. I don’t have any problem with other people announcing their pronouns, especially if they’re non-obvious, but as a cis woman I don’t feel like putting She/Her on all my stuff.

      2. Same. I don’t need to remind people that I’m a woman in every single communication. My gender is irrelevant to the content I’m sending. If someone else wants to include theirs more power to them though.

        1. Yup, stereotype threat and discrimination against women in the workplace exist. Seems like many have forgotten that. I know I’d get treated better if I went by my initials in email correspondence.

          1. Agree. I’m a woman in a male dominated field who often tells male customers they made errors and there will be negative consequences. The difference in their replies from when I use initials and my first name is breathtaking. With my first name half address me as Ms even though the field standard is Dr, and they’ll refer to my male peers as Dr. In my workplace, sex or gender based discrimination isn’t addressed or even included in surveys, so it’s definitely ignored.

          2. I think that discrimination is worse for trans people who get misgendered. So as a woman who experiences misogyny, I’m in solidarity with them by putting my pronouns to make it the norm.

          3. I don’t agree that getting referred to by the wrong pronoun is worse than being discriminated against for being a woman. Come back to me when we have national paid maternity leave and equal pay and then we can talk.

      3. Even if you are cisgender, putting your pronouns in your email signature line and LinkedIn page signals allyship. I’m an Old and I decided to do it this summer, after some very vocal people in my profession embarrassed me by making a stink about transmen and transwomen on LinkedIn.

        More recently, I’ve been emailing back and forth with a Kelly and would have had no idea, but I noticed her sig line says she/her, and that helped!

        1. I have a gender neutral name, but I sort of like people thinking I might be a man. As others said, women are discriminated against so there are benefits to people thinking I might be a man.

          1. +1. my pronouns are in my email, but I benefited when they were not and people thought I was a man.

    2. I have them in the full version of my email signature, on my LinkedIn profile, and a little pin on my lanyard. But I don’t use that full version all the time (in email chains I just use the short version with my name and phone number) and I’d never judge anyone for not including theirs.

    3. I decline to state when asked. People have never had a problem determining my sex in professional settings before, especially not when it was time to pay me less or speak over me. They’ll figure it out. I don’t typically participate in rituals for ideologies I don’t believe in.

      1. The one time I was asked, my response was “you can use my proper noun”, which, as it turns out, is gender-crossing.

    4. I don’t include them as a cis gendered woman with a traditionally female name but I do find them helpful if someone is non-binary etc as I would not want to misgender someone.

    5. I’ve had mine in my email signature for a while as a sign of support to tr@ns or nonbinary people. No, I do not assume anything about someone who leaves pronouns out of their signature. My intake form for my practice has a space for pronouns that I marked “optional,” which is working well.

    6. I think it’s good that some cisgender people include them and that some cisgender people don’t.

      I think it’s best when people who aren’t cisgender can specify pronouns or not specify pronouns without standing out too much.

    7. Largely a good thing. I think that making people comfortable in the workplace is a net benefit and selfishly, I don’t want to guess gender wrong when a Taylor or an Aparna or a Nico emails me.

    8. Not a fan.

      In the work environment, I don’t want people thinking about me as a women/whether I prefer one pronoun or another/what my politics might be/what my sex life might be…. just my work. Isn’t that hard enough? If someone makes an error, I correct them as needed.

      1. +1. It’s empowering to recognize that someone making a mistake doesn’t have to ruin your day. Choose mental strength!

        1. Whether someone puts up with being misgendered isn’t about mental strength. There is “power” in being kind and respectful to one another and addressing them however they prefer. Workplace dynamics also bring a whole different layer to things because of the different power dynamics that are often at play. Instead of putting the burden on the one being slighted or experiencing the ill consequence, the kinder thing is to look at the transgressor and ways to minimize or avoid future occurrences.

    9. I find it really helpful from a logistical standpoint. I interact with a ton of people over email and then have to describe a lot of those people to others (recruiting adjacent role), so knowing pronouns makes it a lot easier to have those kinds of conversations without having to use their name constantly, which can sound a little aggressive.

    10. I provide them when asked directly but otherwise don’t offer them up for a combination of reasons:
      1) don’t feel the need to remind the sexist men I work with that I’m a woman
      2) I am a woman with PCOS in the South and have been misgendered and called a “dirty tr*nny” in public multiple times and made to feel unsafe. I believe that trans rights should be respected, but it bothers me that any trait that’s not 100% feminine is seen as trans instead of simply accepting that women and men and non-binary folks simply exist and we get to decided our labels, not other people. I am a cis women and guess what, cis women have facial hair (some wax it off, some don’t), we naturally have some level of testosterone, some of us have lower voices, etc. The trans women in my life actually pass “better” than I do, which is something we’ve talked about with a mixture of feelings. I believe trans women are women and in my life experience, calling attention to pronouns has contributed to feeling unsafe rather than more safe.

      1. I am sickened that people harass you this way. People really need to know that there is no way to “look” or present as a woman, and that includes women who have masculine features as well as those who dress in a traditionally masculine mannter.

    11. I think it’s professionally acceptable to put preferred pronouns in your bio or employee directory if you choose to do so, but I prefer not to. I would say probably a third of more senior people in my in-house legal department do it and all of our senior HR leaders; outside those functions virtually no one does except tr*ns or nonbinary employees.

    12. It’s perfectly normal. If people want to share or ask me on a form, that’s fine. I don’t typically give pronouns unprompted, but I also have no history of being misgendered by people seeing me (via email it’s a whole other story). I am happy to call people what they want to be called.

    13. Everyone at my workplace has it in their email signature. I’m cis and think it’s important to normalize for everyone. I had a tr@ns colleague and had no idea until he told me. If you think, “my gender is obvious so I don’t need pronouns” , that’s stereotyping what tr@ns or nonbinary folks look like.

      1. I led a short discussion with my department about including pronouns in email signatures during pride month last year and how even though you may think your pronouns would be obvious, putting them in your signature makes it more “normal” for people who use pronouns that are less obvious. I got a message from a coworker who is trans that she really appreciated the discussion.
        Aside from that, I work with a lot of people from other countries and really appreciate when they have pronouns in their signature since I can’t always infer their pronouns just from their name.

    14. Honestly, I find it most helpful when I’m working with people that have names that I am not familiar with and can’t infer gender from, so that I know how to refer to them (before/if I don’t meet them in person).

    15. My dad and husband both have gender neutral names. They like using pronouns so they don’t get misgendered. Pronouns work for cis people too!

    1. Oooh fun! I adored Spain – in terms of airports you generally either fly into Barcelona or Madrid from the US. I did Madrid to Seville and loved it. Madrid felt a lot like Spanish London if that makes sense? Very much a business capital vibe with great food, vibrant art and night life, but not super stereotypically Spanish. Seville was amazing and straight out of central casting – beautiful art and architecture, music scene was gorgeous, people were super friendly and the food was a bit more traditional. We were also lucky enough to be there for ‘Feria de Abril’ (google it) which was an amazing experience. If Madrid was similar to London or Rome, Seville was similar to Florence. Cordoba was worth a day trip but I wouldn’t spend much more time there. I desperately wanted to see the Alhambra but it was under construction and closed to visitors when I was there – I’d absolutely detour to visit that if you’re at all into art or architecture!
      Barcelona is on my bucket list – I’ve heard amazing things from family and friends who have been!

      1. Not OP but please tell me more about Seville! Going there for spring break (with family). I’m very excited to hear the Florence comparison as Florence is one of my most favorite cities and we had a fabulous family trip there last year.

        1. I had the best time – the Real Alcazar was just breathtaking, I would suggest a guided tour if possible. The art is mainly in the palace/churches (vs. museums) and is very influenced by Islamic styles and traditions – a lot of decorative artistic finishes/ceilings/tiles vs. portraiture or paintings. Spain was also known for it’s (relative) religious tolerance so there are vibrant Mosques/Jewish quarter alongside churches. I wouldn’t suggest a bull fight (did that, it was way more brutal/cruel than I expected) but you can tour the stadium to see the space and the matdor’s clothing exhibitions. There are also lots of places to hear/see Flamenco music and dancing – we asked around to try to find a more local option but then realized that Flamenco was being danced all over the ‘Feria’ so we didn’t go see a performance outside of that. The food was fantastic but lunc and dinner were pretty heavy on fried foods/fish/pork/potatoes – I could see a vegetarian having some issues. The people we met were all SO friendly and were thrilled whenever we spoke Spanish with them. Enjoy!!

        2. Different poster than above, but would agree with the Seville/Florence analogy. We only spent a few days there, but we LOVED Seville on our last Spain trip. It was just so beautiful. The Plaza de Espana was stunning, and we went to the Alcazar, which was sort of like a smaller version of the Alhambra and very much worth visiting. We also just walked around, ate gelato, explored the Jewish quarter. You could see flamenco (we didn’t end up doing that because we were traveling with young kids and I think the shows were too late).
          We did go to Grenada and see the Alhambra as well, which I highly recommend. There’s a reason it is a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

        3. Thanks both! I’m an animal lover so definitely not planning to see a bullfight and will probably not make it to flamenco due to the shows being too late for my young kid. I saw flamenco on a trip to Madrid and don’t have a burning desire to do it again anyway. Definitely planning on the Alcazar, Jewish quarter (we’re Jewish) and lots of gelato :) We will only have two full days in Seville so I’m kind of reluctant to take a full day out for Granada but we’ll see how we feel when we’re there. It looks beautiful.

    2. It would help to know what interests you and what time of year, but off the top of my head:

      If you like museums, buy the pass for Madrid. And go to the Prado on the weekend if school is in session. That seems counterintuitive, but Spanish school children go for field trips so if you go during the week, the place will be teeming with kids with checklists. Also, even if you are not a museum person, go see Guernica (as an aside, the In Our Time Podcast has a really good episode about it).

      Do Food Lover Tour’s tapas tour (also in Madrid).

      Spain’s high speed train system is amazing and I highly recommend it for travel within the country. When you consider time to check in at the airport, go through security, etc., it is almost always faster than flying.

      Get advance tickets for the Alhambra. Go to Toledo. Do not try to drive in Toledo. Spend the night there so you can walk around before and after the tour bus people are around.

      Eat all the tapas. Drink all the wine. Their version of vermouth bears zero resemblance to what we get in the US and places that make their own are very proud of it and will happily tell you all about it. There are about 10 different kinds of gazpacho. Eat all of that too.

      Have a great time. Spain is second only to Italy in my list of favorite European destinations (and third behind Tahiti for worldwide!)

      1. Try a Devour food tour as well! We enjoyed those a ton in both Madrid and Sevilla.

      2. One more thing (in response to a poster above who mentioned vegetarians). I went right before the pandemic with a vegetarian and we had no problems finding lots of options! A lot of their specialties are very pork-centric but there is plenty of vegetarian food if you look for it.

        And I second whoever recommended flamenco. Don’t get too caught up in finding something “authentic”. It is all amazing.

  14. Because I know we talk about depression/anxiety on here often I wanted to share that I’ve been struggling with my mood this winter (yes, likely SAD but the exercise/sun lamp/healthy diet/more sleep weren’t helping). I sent my primary care doc a note through my healthcare platform and she upped my anxiety meds while also letting me know I can taper back down if I’d like in the spring. It’s been 5 days and this morning it was like the clouds finally parted in my brain. I’m sad I kept beating myself up for my low mood and didn’t reach out sooner but also wanted to share this in case anyone else is also in a low spot. Medication needs change over time and what worked yesterday may not work tomorrow and that’s ok!

  15. Has anyone been to an SFIG conferece since COVID? IIRC, the dress was pretty formal, but what is it now? Esp. for women.

  16. I’m pretty much just venting here, because for the first time in a long while I I’m not feeling great about work.

    We are implementing a new project management methodology. Almost a year ago, I was tapped to a part of the pilot team. I have worked hard to make sure that we share information with our team, so that they can see that we aren’t sitting still doing nothing while they pick up extra duties that we have been pulled off of. I have also volunteered to pick up projects outside of the scope of my assignments to assure that the others aren’t getting overwhelmed.

    Today, the most vocal opponent of the new methodology took over the Q&A after our presentation to say that how we are keeping them informed about our projects isn’t working for her and we have to change it. Everyone else has been able to understand what we have been saying, but we have to change to make her understand.

    Shortly after, our manager (one of two, with the other currently on maternity leave) announced that she is expecting her second child and will go on leave about 30 days after her counterpart comes back. All I can think is how exhausted our director, their boss and our skip-level, is going to be. She is already dealing with a chronic condition and family issues, and she is going to need to steer us through a constant shifting over the next several months.

    I’m happy for my manager, but I’m not thrilled for our team. And I can’t begin to even whisper that at work.

    1. Separate the comments from the opponent from the surprise of hearing about the upcoming maternity leave. Totally unrelated. Strategize with your boss, who will presumably be around for many more months, about how to address that. And while it sounds mean, it’s not your job to manage your director’s work-life balance. She is a big girl.

      1. Agree the maternity leave(s) of your bosses have nothing to do with these comments. Regarding the new methodology, I would continue to do what works for the majority of the people, and I’d have a one on one with the whiner to let her know that’s how it’s going to be.

        I used to produce a quarterly package of metrics and graphs for senior management (I’m in finance) that grew quite large due to requests. My manager suggested no one was looking at all of these pages – I agree – and we decided to pare it down a little. Every single thing I tried to cut out was at least one person’s favorite thing and they threw a fit. Some people relied on these metrics for performance management so it wasn’t a simple “too bad so sad” kind of situation. I had to work with each of these people to show them how they could use other pages of the report to get the information they needed.

  17. I posted about losing my teenaged family member earlier this week. Thank you all for the suggestions and warmth.

    Going to memorial services next week, which will be in a much colder climate than mine. Any suggestions for warm black tights to wear under a dress? All my old tights (haven’t been worn since winter 2019) are not in great shape or warm enough.

    1. Will you be outside or inside? I like Spanx opaque tights for their durability and I’ve worn them in very cold weather just for getting from one indoor place to another, or commuting. But if you’re doing an outdoor graveside thing, you might want to look into fleece lined tights. I don’t have a brand recommendation for those unfortunately.

      I’m so sorry for your loss.

    2. Second fleece lined tights! If you cannot get them in time you can try just wearing two pairs together.
      Again, so sorry for your family. Big hugs.

    4. I was able to get Hue tights with expedited shipping to arrive in 2 days. Amazon has had them in stock on Prime, as well.

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