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Updated: Apr 3, 2023 211 Comments · by

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Odette Sweater Lady Jacket

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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A woman wearing a green sweater-jacket, a white top, khakis, and a black belt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I know, I know, another J.Crew sweater blazer, you say? But this one is SO good! I love the color, the cropped length, the crochet trim, all of it. This would be gorgeous with a sheath dress or high-waisted trousers for a pulled-together office look.

I’m always drawn to green, but this also comes in a cheery lemon yellow, white, and navy.

The sweater jacket is $178 full price at J.Crew — but 40% off today — and comes in sizes XXXS–3X.

Sales of note for 9.19.24

  • Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September, and cardmembers earn 3x the points (ends 9/22)
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
  • Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
  • Boden – 15% off new styles
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
  • J.Crew – 50% off select styles — and 9/19 only, 50% off the cashmere wrap
  • J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
  • Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
  • Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Anniversary event, 25% off your entire purchase — Free shipping, no minimum, 9/19 only
  • Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
  • Tuckernuck – Friends & Family Sale – get 20%-30% off orders (ends 9/19).
  • White House Black Market – 40% off select styles

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Anon

    The color is lovely but looking at the fabric in close up pics on the website — it seems like the kind of material that will immediately look kind of old and worn. Also I don’t understand why they style their clothes on these sites in a way no one who is interested in the item would ever wear it.

    • anon

      The styling on websites drives me absolutely crazy. I guess that’s fashion for you, but come on! The aspirational styling is not doing the product any favors.

      • Anon

        If they styled it with a sheath dress or a blouse that covers the waist, it would read classic to “old lady” and then the young ‘uns wouldn’t buy it. J Crew doesn’t want to come across as Talbots! I say this as an Old who shops both places.

        This is a better pic at least than the many many Banana photos where the model is crumpled over and it’s so dark you can’t really see the garment at all.

      • nyclaw

        I think it’s adorable and was debating buying it even before post but it’s just too short. unless one was to wear it over a shift dress i’m not sure how a professional could wear something like this without showing skin.

        • Anonymous

          I am almost certain there are full-length shirts available in multiple styles, even if one must borrow or buy second hand.

        • anon

          I think this would look great over a dress for work. I also think it looks good as styled by JCrew for casual wear mixing frumpy with trendy.

        • Anon

          As a short person, I have a different experience. The fit in current J. Crew cropped jackets is amazing with high waist pants.

    • Anon

      Adrienne Haslet has photos on her Instagram of her in an amazing blue suit. Follow the links to Zara and it’s styled like this – basically undergarments underneath – and looks just terrible.

  2. Anonymous

    I have trouble sleeping 3-4 nights before I get my period. Is it ok to take Tylenol PM or another OTC med these nights? I don’t have any health conditions but it feels like a waste of my money and my doctors time to go ask.

    • Anon

      I’ve been advised to avoid using OTC sedatives without medical supervision. I did involve my doctor though.

      I tested positive for a few nutrient deficiencies, so I supplement those. I also eat a little differently that time of month.

      This is a weird one, but because I had some additional symptoms of PMDD, but cannot take SSRIs, 5HTP came up as an SSRI alternative. I wonder if it helps with sleep because it can be converted to either serotonin or melatonin (like maybe it’s just a roundabout way that I’m getting melatonin?).

      I keep seeing those Jubilance ads and wondering if their whole story about CNS blood glucose is related to the symptoms I used to get.

    • Anonymous

      I like naturally calm magnesium powder (unflavored) when I have trouble sleeping. Doesn’t leave me feeling groggy the next morning the way Tylenol PM or similar does.

    • Anon

      No. You’ll become an addict with lifelong health complications. You absolutely should always go to the doctor before trying anything over the counter! What are you even thinking?!
      (Clearly satire for those confused)

      • Anon

        Diphenhydramine dependence for sleep is real. With all the new studies on long term dementia risk, I would definitely be looking for a different solution.

        • Anon

          Dependence is unlikely if you’re only taking it a few days a month (and period-related insomnia is a thing, it’s not just in OP’s head), but yes the studies about long term dementia risk are concerning. My endocrinologist strongly advocates for melatonin over any other sleep aid. But if she’s tried melatonin and it’s not working and Tylenol PM is, I don’t think it’s a big deal to take it a few days a month. Even short term sleep deprivation seriously increases your dementia risk too, so at some point it’s a lesser of two ev1ls thing. I don’t think occasional benadryl use has been well-studied, it’s the daily use that is strongly linked to dementia.

    • Anonymous

      I wouldn’t take benadryl on a regular basis. The dementia risk is real. Talk with your doc. There are other options. I save the Tylenol PM for the rare, when I’m sick for like a day or two. Not every month. And you might start to feel worse the next day from the benadryl hangover.

    • Anonymous

      Have you tried THC indica gummies? Works really well for my sleep issues.

    • Anon

      JCrew, but Total Request Live pants. I think that the jacket would look fine with 2023 pants (not 2003 pants).

      • pugsnbourbon

        I would have worn those pants to school but used a necktie as a belt because I was ~cool~

  4. anon

    I’m sorry but I cannot with these high waisted baggy pants. They are the same style as the polyester pants my grandma wears.

      • anon

        It’s hard to tell with the crop top. In any event they look like my grandma’s pants.

        • Anon

          I hate to tell you this, but your Grandma’s pants are back in fashion.

          Welcome to the wheel of fashion. What was old is new again after 20 years or so (sometimes less these days).

    • Anon

      I remember being hooked on What Not to Wear in the early aughts, and the first thing they did was make all the women throw out tier pleat-front pants!

  5. go for it

    Looking for tips to help someone with their NYC rent stabilized apt. Tenant is having
    issues with owners re: dog. Does anyone know what social/tenancy agency in NYC handles
    these type of issues? Tenant is a disabled senior citizen whom cannot afford an attorney.
    Any info would be appreciated.

  6. Anonymous

    For those who work or worked in big law, how much did you save (or do you plan to) and in what forms before leaving? What would make you feel comfortable as the breadwinner (with kids) leaving for a lower paying job?

    • Lily

      Definitely pay off loans before leaving. In terms of when I would feel comfortable leaving beyond that, it would depend on what your fixed expenses are. If you can still pay for your housing costs comfortably (less than 30% of your income) with your new salary, and have a decent emergency fund (6 months living expenses), I would leave ASAP if your quality of life is going to increase dramatically.

    • Cat

      I paid off my student loans and bought a house, but the best thing I did was establish large fixed expenses on the assumption I would be taking a pay cut to go in-house. So the house we purchased was a decent amount less expensive than what we were approved for, etc.

      • Anonymous

        This. We got approved for easily 20% more than we spent even on our current salaries. I’m constantly shocked when people don’t realize that banks are financially interested in you spending a lot of a house and they do not factor in future nanny/daycare bills at all. One year my daycare bill was more than my mortgage.

    • Anon

      You’re framing this wrong, biglaw isn’t the only legal job that pays well. I left when I got a good in-house position at a more junior level, climbed up at a company and never took a major pay cut. I now make more than many firm lawyers and have a life too. I worried more about the sustainability of my whole career, which wasn’t going to happen at a law firm.

      • Cat

        With 1st year associates making $215K plus bonus, which is just about what I made as a 5th year before going in-house, I think the OP would be wise to expect a cut, and be pleasantly surprised if she doesn’t have to take one.

    • Anon

      My goal was paying off my student loans and building a nest egg that we could use as a down payment on a house when we moved for my husband’s academic job. My loans were low compared to others (~$30k) so I got rid of those within a year and then saved about $250k over the course of the next four years. We ended up moving to a very LCOL area so ended up buying a house basically in cash, which has given us a ton of financial freedom. I was the breadwinner while in Big Law by a huge margin (husband was in grad school/postdoc earning at most $60k). I no longer am the breadwinner but our combined HHI is only just now approaching what I made as a first year associate 10 years ago. We didn’t have kids in Big Law but had one soon after moving and buying our house.

    • Anonymous

      I was in biglaw a long while ago – when starting salaries were 160k not the over 200k they are now. I made it a point to leave with about a quarter million in hand. Because matching wasn’t a thing and many of my years were financial crisis and post financial crisis, the retirement piece of that net worth was only about 150k. I personally didn’t pay off my loans but I had loans under 3 percent and under 75k so I was much more focused on making more money off of investments rather than paying off low interest debt. I also didn’t buy a house but that was more because I knew when I was done biglaw, I was done NYC and did not want to tie my money into a down payment in NYC.

      As for lower paying, what are you looking to do? Yes I have friends that went non profit or to solo shops where they represent individuals and are not the owner of the shop where the pay cuts are huge. But most of my friends are still comfortably making junior associate money – by today’s salary standards. If you leverage your biglaw experience and go in house or even government in financial spaces you can still make over 200. Yes even in government as that’s what my regulatory agency pays lawyers.

    • OP

      Thanks all – in response to the Qs I’d like to go in house and have been in big law for a bit now so I’d expect to take at least a 50% paycut. I’ve paid off my loans and car and already own a home, I’m probably fine I’m just curious what made others feel secure. Bigger issue for me is cash flow with two daycares.

    • Former Partner

      I left BigLaw with:
      * no student debt
      * no debt of any kind other than a very reasonable mortgage
      * roughly $500K invested

      Importantly, at my next (govt) job: I religiously maxed out both the 403(b) and the 457(b) accounts that were available to me. Dollar cost averaging and a couple decades of consistent investing supplements the investments I had when I left BigLaw, which have now of course grown, too.

  7. anon

    I have to work on my annual performance assessment. Which is not fun in the best of times, but the truth is I feel like I’m treading water and I’m probably burned out. How do you approach these conversations when you’re not feeling great about work? It doesn’t help that I feel overlooked and underappreciated.

          • Anon

            Sure, she can bring her infamous “Get your f—ing a– up and work” vibe here…

        • Anon

          This is our resident Mean Girl, who seemingly gets intense emotional satisfaction out of being the first person to respond to every post and also getting to say something insensitive, crass, mean or otherwise off-putting to the person who’s merely asking a question.

          • Anon

            Did I say this particular comment was crass? There’s a whole list of adjectives to choose from; why zero in on that one? P.S. if you’re the mean girl – yes, people are on to you. So cut it out already. Find a hobby or something.

    • Anonymous

      Don’t count yourself out before they do. Remember that how you feel doesn’t make it a shared reality. I’ve come in feeling poorly and been surprised at how great and come in feeling great and not had great feedback. So all told, I’d try to be as confident as possible in the self-assessment. There is very little downside. When it comes time for feedback, listen and focus on a plan to do better.

      • pugsnbourbon

        +1. Don’t give yourself a bad or even neutral assessment. Get as close to what Tradwick would write as you reasonably can.

    • Ribena

      Do you have a positive feedback folder in your email inbox? I always go through mine when it comes to performance reviews and job interviews.
      The other thing I like to do is think back to where I was a year or two before, and all the things I do now that would have felt scary before.

    • Anonymous

      Dig deep into the year- did you have wins from 11 months ago before you burned out? Cite those.

    • Anon

      When you feel overworked and underappreciated, the performance assessment allows you to basically say as much. When I had an awful, truly evil manager, I used mine to point out what a rock star I am and to show how petty his criticisms were.

      • anonshmanon

        yeah, what are the achievements and contributions that they are overlooking? What would happen if you stopped doing those things? There is your impact. It all goes in the assessment.

    • anon

      The main thing is to keep in mind is that your performance evaluation is not the time or place to share your insecurities, or how you really feel about the job (that’s for your friends, family, journal). If you need and want to address problems, think about how to spin it in a positive way so that you come across as proactive and motivated (e.g. discuss professional development or continuing education opportunities that would support your growth and future contribution).

    • Anonymous

      Commiseration. I went through a lot of (positive!) changes in my personal life last year and I’ve felt like I’m in a fog and just can’t focus at work. Which is odd because every time I’ve had BAD changes in my life, I kick a$$ at work. Apparently I’m only a good worker when I’m unhappy.

      • Anon

        That’s a thing – burying yourself in work. My dysfunctional family is part of the reason I was an amazing student.

  8. Josie P

    My glasses are ALWAYS getting dirty. Anyone have a favorite lens cleaner cloth they would recommend?

    • Anonymous

      Peeps by Carbon Klean. Not a cloth but I’ve never had my glasses be easier to clean or had them looking better from just me cleaning them.

    • Anon

      I’m messy like you. I just have to keep the little spray bottles/wipes and I try to remember to clean them either every night or AM and once during the day.

    • anonshmanon

      DH swears by running the glasses under water, soaping up with dish detergent and rinsing.

      • Anon

        I remember when I found out that people washed their glasses with soap and water, after many years of wearing them myself, and it was life-changing. Less convenient than grabbing a cloth, but this is the real way to do it

        • anonshmanon

          just avoid any soap that advertises moisturizing or other skin friendly qualities – that will leave a residue. Plain detergent is good.

      • Anon

        Yes! I do this too. Gets rid of all the fingerprints and smudges every time.

      • Ellen

        I never trust any man to wash my dishes and put them away. They think that if they do that, I will consider them mature and will be more likely to sleep with them. Too many times, these doofuses put schmutz on the dishes pefore putting them away and before I know it they’re in the dish closet. By the time I take them out to use them again, the schumtz is dried on and I can’t get it off! FOOEY on men who do that!

    • Anon

      I like the synthetic ones the optician gives me with my glasses. They sell more of them with a little bottle of the spray cleaner that’s sort of like a gentle windex on Amazon.

      And yes I’m always surprised at how dirty my glasses get. Im not touching them at all but they’re still incredibly smudged at the end of the day.

    • Panda Bear

      It took me a while to realize that my new (closer fitting) glasses were getting so smudged because my eyelashes were brushing against them. It was such a faint brushing that I didn’t really notice it, until I compared the fit of the new ones to the old ones and realized how much closer they sat to my eye and eye lashes. I kept wondering where these mysterious new vertical smudges were coming from….

  9. anon

    What are everyone’s favorite Easter dishes? We’re hosting this year. I’m planning on ham and a cheesy potato situation but everything else is up for debate. My mom is bringing the deviled eggs. :)

    • Anon

      Ugh nothing that my mom will be cooking ;) My mom hates cooking and doesn’t care at all about food (she could eat the same thing for the rest of her life and be totally fine, my dad and I are foodies) but now hosts every holiday. Her sisters and SILs are barely recovered anorexics and thus we only have the “diet” version and portion size of everything. My mom was not anorexic but her sisters taught her to cook so…

      We are unfortunately a ham family but I cannot wait to take over hosting fishes to become a lamb family.

      Hot cross buns (traditionally the last day you can eat them!)

      Quiche (which my mom makes with 2 eggs and skim milk…)

      • Anon

        My mom doesn’t have an eating disorder but I have to remind her not to use gross low-cal substitutions when cooking for a crowd. No one else wants a cocktail with artificial sweeteners or guac with fat free greek yogurt. Just make the real thing, you can survive one full-fat meal!

        To answer the original question, risotto with asparagus, peas, and lemon. Risotto is slow but easy. I relax and watch tv while stirring.

      • Anonymous

        I feel so seen! Not anorexic in any way. But my mom has somehow anointed herself the sugar police in her older age and will arbitrarily cut sugar in half in deserts or she’ll make things when the spirit hits and then freeze them for months on end and then unthaw them “for company.” If she offers you a slice of pie, you should run.

        • Anon

          I feel so bad for recipe bloggers/cookbook authors on social, because the first and most repeated question is “can you freeze this?”

          Frosted cake, linguine Alfredo, sandwiches, you name it. They want to freeze it. I will never understand why.

          My mom used to say “oh we have meat in the freezer” – meat that had been in there for year(s), with a thick layer of ice, but sure, we have meat in the freezer.

          I don’t want any of your mom’s pie either, haha!

    • Curious

      I went to a friend’s Orthodox Easter celebration once, and they had spanikopita. I now believe these and asparagus should accompany the cheesy potatoes every year.

    • anonshmanon

      A braided wreath of rich yeasted dough, like Challah or brioche. Pretty simple if you know your way around a yeast dough, but looks stunning and what is better than bread with butter?

    • Anon

      Ham and a cheesy potato situation and asparagus, which to me is the perfect spring veg. Sometimes I do the thing where it’s steamed, dressed in a vinaigrette and topped with a chipped hard boiled egg. Sometimes it’s roasted.

      We don’t overdo it on the number of dishes because there’s so much candy.

  10. Anon

    Weird question, but is it possible to cook two different kinds of pasta in the same pot and not mix them up? I was thinking there has to be some sort of pot insert that divides it into two separate areas, but it doesn’t seem to exist.

      • Curious

        I guess it’s not an insert, but something like this: TJHamaipi Stainless Steel Rotary Lift Hot Pot, Shabu Pot, Boil Pot, Suitable for 2-6 People, 7QT Capacity, Iindependent Filter, Thickened Steel, Suitable For Gas Induction Cooker https://a.co/d/3OuUuaw

    • Anon

      Pasta cooking appliances that look and act like a restaurant deep fryer, only with water instead of grease, are something that exists. In those, you can put multiple baskets with different shaped pasta. It’s overkill for a home kitchen unless you’re ground zero for weekly extended family dinners or running a takeout joint out of your back door.

    • Anonymous

      Different widths and sizes will cook at slightly different rates, that’s why folks cook them separately.

    • Anonymous

      Yes it’s called you just put them in the same pot. As long as they aren’t wildly different sizes it’s fine

      • Cat

        I think the OP wants the different shapes to stay separate for serving, so while your comment is true, it doesn’t solve her problem.

      • Ellen

        I think it’s fine. My mom always made boiled linguini for Dad and Whole Wheat Ziti for me in the same pot. It tasted fine, even tho they were mixed together.

    • Anonymous

      Restaurants essentially use little strainers that look like the utensil holders in a dishwasher to cook different pasta in the same pot. I assume any strainer that fit inside the pot would allow you to do this.

      • Anon

        This. My favorite take-out place, long since shuttered RIP, would let you choose your pasta and sauce and would put it together for you. They used large strainers to cook the fresh pasta (sigh) while they made a quick sauce in a skillet, then they drained the pasta right in the strainer it cooked in, threw it in the pan, tossed it high in the air to mix it – I was mesmerized – and threw it into a container for you.

        How this place couldn’t stay in business forever is beyond me. It was my dream take-out.

    • anon

      Just saw an insta reel on this and they used a mesh strainer with pasta #2 on top of the other

  11. Anon

    My workplace is casual (like fancy sneaker and belly-buttons in view casual). But I am doing some serious work with customers in financial distress and also on a local board where I fundraising in person (lunch asks, meetings for asks, etc.), so each day may need some serious attire (or at least things that aren’t clownish on a woman who is 40+). But I also think not a suit in 2023. What are some items (or stores) that I should look at? Finally replacing items due to size flux and the world overall fashion resetting since 2019. Cost is generally not an issue if <$500.

    [Not helpful to my task, but I discovered Needle and Thread and IDK who actually wears them, but in my mind I still go to things where I need to be dressy.]

      • Anonymous

        Agree. My first thought was an interesting blazer from Talbots. Or a simple solid color dress like Mm Lafleur’s Etsuko that you can dress up or down based on your shoes.

        • Flats (and Talbots Blazers) Only

          Pro Tip – you can usually find those interesting Talbots blazers on deep discount on eBay. Once you know your size you can search “Talbots Blazer yoursize” or similar and get a lot of choices. Somehow a novelty blazer that costs $40 is an easier buy than a novelty blazer that costs $250.

      • Anon

        My favorite knit blazers are from Talbots – the merino wool ones – and I agree they’re all over eBay, new with tags. The wool may be out of season for your climate though.

        In your shoes I’d get a navy blazer if you’re only getting one. It goes with everything in a way black doesn’t, and black has a way of looking like you’re just wearing the top half of a suit rather than a true blazer. (Something that is not done in menswear – a sport coat and a blazer are both very different than a suit jacket.)

    • An.On.

      I would say a nice pair of trousers and decent sweater/blouse would be my go-to. Even if you just have a plain t-shirt, you can still dress it up with nicer jewelry.

      • Anne-on

        This. I’ve gotten my dress pants at Talbots recently and most of my nice sweaters are from either Brooks Brothers, Bloomingdales in house C line, or The Fold. Cashmere sweater, dress slacks, and nice jewelry isn’t super exciting but it’s easy enough to find/forgiving of some size fluctuations, and if you need ot layer a blazer on top for more serious meetings you can do so easily.

    • Anonymous

      This is a good time to find lots of wide leg tailored trousers in stores, I would start there. Add swackets.

    • Anon

      When you are talking about “customers” in financial distress, so you mean you work with everyday people whose expenses exceed their income? Or are these businesses that are failing?

      When I was an ALJ for TANF benefits, I kept the suits at home and wore nice (Ann Taylor circa 2013, not Brooks Brothers) skirts, blouses, and sweaters. However, if I were working with distressed companies, I would probably lean towards comfortable but elevated sheath dresses and the like.

    • Trish

      I opt for dresses when I want to look dressed up and professional but not to lawyerly.

    • Katie

      I hadn’t heard of Needle & Thread and it’s out of my budget (and ultrafemme isn’t usually my bag) but WOW are those beautiful!

    • DeepSouth

      Veronica Beard blazers are much more modern than Talbots and can move back and forth between casual and business casual more easily.

    • Ellen

      I don’t understand the belly button thing at work these days. Even when I was young, I would never expose my belly button to people at work, and now that I have a bit of a paunch tummy, I am particularly sensitive to any tight clotheing that would expose or even hint at what my midriff looks like, even when fully covered by a blouse. Young ladies these days are more likely to get the attention of men my age when they expose their midriffs, as those 40 something men probably think it will be easier to get where they want to go faster with these young women. It does not look professional, and I am not afraid to say so.

  12. Anonymous

    Sadly, this sweater is excluded from the promo. Which sucks, because I love it and the color.

    • Cat

      Check back in a few days, JCrew rotates their promos pretty often. I would not buy anything full price.

  13. Anon

    Just confirming that there’s no way to set an alert for a certain item on Poshmark? I’m looking for a certain vintage J.Crew dress and have eBay and Mercari alerts set, but there doesn’t seem to be a way to do so on Poshmark. (Poshmark confuses me overall – the whole social aspect is baffling.)

    • Curious

      You can save the search and then I think you might get email alerts along with all their other spam (?)

    • Anonymous

      I use Poshmark and treat it like ebay. Ignore the social aspect. Just search for the dress and size that you like, if the options are too pricey, like them and you’ll get notices of price drops. I don’t think you can set alerts to a specific item type but if you have an account it will send you ‘picked just for you notifications’ and notify if items you ‘liked’ have had price drops. And don’t be afraid to make offers. I sold a BNWT BR shirt for $4 the other day because I was already on the way to the post office to drop off other packages and I’d rather sell it than wait to get a few dollars more. Some people use it make money like ebay to I just use it to churn my closet in a more environmentally friendly way.

    • Anonymous

      It’s a little clunky. In the Poshmark app you can save a search. Start a new search and get all the filters set up like you want them and then there should be a little flag to the right of the search bar that allows you to save. Then to see if there are new items, click the search bar again and there should be two options: recent and saved. Click saved and it will show you if any of your saved searches have new results. Maybe there’s a better way, but that’s what I have been doing.

    • Anon

      Thank you for saving that about Poshmark. I found it so weird I deleted it and now I just stick to eBay. J buy more than 50% of my stuff secondhand so cutting off a whole avenue for that was a move, but I couldn’t stand it.

      Also, someone rated me badly on Mercari because I used the make an offer button and it was automatically accepted and she was pissed because she didn’t want to sell it for that price? Which is apparently my fault? Anyway, she gave me one star and it took a looong time to crawl out of that hole, so I’m mostly over Mercari

      Anyway, OP, I actually have good luck with plain old google searches for specific items. After you search, you can hit the Shopping tab and it will include resale sites.

  14. Anonymous

    It’s a battle to get my ten year old to consistently brush her hair and teeth. Yet some of her friends are perfectly groomed, and even wearing makeup! I’m not talking about a little lip gloss, but full face. This seems ridiculous to me, and I definitely don’t want her so worried about her appearance at this age (finishing elementary school this spring). However, I grew up without a mother, and no one talked to me about things like shaving, waxing, makeup, etc. I had to figure it all out myself, in most cases later than my peers.
    So I’m wondering at what point I should start to bring this kind of stuff up to her. For example, she has fairly bushy eyebrows, but do ten and eleven year olds actually tweeze or wax? She has asked me to straighten her hair for some special occasions, and she bought some makeup for fun at CVS with her friend (played with it that night at home and hasn’t touched it since). I don’t want to make her self-conscious by talking about her eyebrows (as an example), but if she does want to do something about them at some point, I want her to know she can talk to me about it. I’m curious about grooming standards for this age and how best to approach with her.

    • Anon

      Don’t touch her eyebrows, please. I endured comments about my eyebrows for years and it lead me to refusing to do anything with them out of defiance.

      Brushing hair and teeth are hygiene issues, not beauty issues. Find a brush that works for your daughter’s hair and consider changing up her conditioner. Make brushing her teeth just like putting on clean clothes – non-negotiable.

      • Moose

        Also – a thought – maybe a easier-to-care-for haircut would help? Might make the hair brushing/grooming easier and faster in the morning.
        An I agree, no need to bring up nonessential grooming now. Just be an open door if she has questions!

      • Anon

        +1 brushing hair and teeth is non-negotiable hygiene. I would not raise beauty issues like the brows or makeup.

    • JD

      10 years old is way too young for full makeup outside of dance recital. There should be boundaries from parents both ways. I would say tweezing, etc, depends on interest and need. I think 7th/8th grade is where you should have a talk as most kids are going to be thinking about shaving. If she has a a unibrow and is getting teased, I think offering tweezing as an option is appropriate. Bushy eyebrows alone are more of a harmless choice to me.

      Once she’s in proper middle school, maybe you could do a fun class together for hair options and simple makeup styles. I’d still discourage full face makeup in middle school, but I was raised personally conservatively.

    • Anon

      I think you might find the American Girl book “The Care & Keeping of You” very helpful at this age. It was in the news recently. You can google the title and “news” and see if it matches your vibe.
      Granted it was years ago, but book basically told me how to do all things grooming and what changes to expect. My mother just really didn’t think to have those conversations with me. Looking back, it was good to see some of this content in writing and not second hand from friends at school.
      I agree make-up at 10 sounds young. It sounds like you’re naturally letting her explore, which is great. Great job!

    • Anon

      Maybe you could plan a fun, low key mother/daughter pamper day with manicures or salon blow dries or something. So you do it together as a fun bonding activity and the focus isn’t on trying to look or be a certain way, rather you’re just having fun with beauty stuff. You could even do it at home. Go to CVS or Ulta and pick up some fun nail polish and sheet masks, watch a movie together and pamper. A mother/daughter self-care slumber party.

    • Anon

      Oops got caught in mod. Trying again.

      Maybe you could plan a fun, low key mother daughter pamper day with manicures or salon blow dries or something. So you do it together as a fun bonding activity and the focus isn’t on trying to look or be a certain way, rather you’re just having fun with beauty stuff. You could even do it at home. Go to CVS or Ulta and pick up some fun nail polish and sheet masks, watch a movie together and pamper. A mother daughter self care slumber party.

    • anonshmanon

      sounds like she is showing limited interest in the topic, so you could just take your cue from her.
      Also consider that kids today have lots of information at their finger tips. I would have used teen magazines for makeup tutorials back in the day, but they didn’t explain grooming as such. Now there’s YouTube, TikTok, and just Google search, q&a sites and all that other stuff. If she is wondering, she can find out.

    • Anon

      She sounds normal to me. And it is ridiculous for 10 year old girls (isn’t that like 5th grade?!?!) to be wearing full face make-up. oh my goodness…. Please do not bring up waxing to your 10 year old.

      Agree with other posters. Brushing teeth is non-negotiable and is health care. I’m less concerned about the hair but… ok brush it. When I was her age I actually hated it when my Mom “did my hair” for me (brushed it hard, put it up tight before school) and wish I had told her to stop it. It hurt!

      Make sure you have a good brush. No one even taught me the basics start at the ends, gently move up to prevent tearing.

      This is the cheap brush folks recommended on this site. It is great.

      https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094DK6JNF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    • anon

      I think you need to have a conversation with her about which things are non-negotiables due to health. Teeth brushing and hair washing/brushing falls into this category. Then talk to her about things which are optional and are for appearance, like shaving or waxing or makeup. And say some people choose to do those things and some don’t. And if you want to do them at some point or don’t ever want to do them, I will support you either way, but we will discuss if it’s age appropriate and the best way to go about it.

    • Anon

      It’s fine to occasionally tweeze the unibrow area on a nine year old. That’s too young to start waxing or shaping the brows but don’t force her to wander around like a mini Frida Kahlo. As a bushy browed child my mom helped me tweeze the unibrow around third grade then took me to a salon for subtle shaping in sixth grade. I plucked stray hairs on my own as they grew in. Freshman year I went to the salon one more time for grown-up shaping. My mom presented it nonchalantly so I didn’t feel self-conscious.

      The appropriate age for leg shaving depends on how dark or thick her hair is. My friends and I started at 11. Let her bring it up on her own unless you notice her bikini line poking out of a swimsuit first.

      • Anon

        Agree, my mom tweezed my unibrow as a kid. I think I got a professional eyebrow was in sixth grade/middle school, too. I don’t think children need to be subject to strict beauty standards but it’s also not fair to have to sport a unibrow.

      • Anon

        “don’t force her to wander around like a mini Frida Kahlo” or don’t force her into totally made up beauty standards if she doesn’t care, ffs.

        • Anon

          Choosing not to wear mascara or dye your gray hair as an adult woman are common and perfectly valid ways to ignore arbitrary beauty standards. But is there really any adult who lets their unibrow flourish unchecked? If you want to opt out of conventional grooming as an independent adult then by all means, it’s your face! But don’t force your tween to make a statement. She may not know that tweezing is an option or be too shy to ask so at least offer it to her.

          • Anon

            Yes, of course there are. I find it hard to believe that you never encounter this.

          • Anon

            Yes there are plenty of women that don’t shave wax or tweeze body hair. I’m one of them and I have thick dark hair.

      • Alanna of Trebond

        This is terrible advice. Do not infect your child with these norms.

    • A

      Focus on hygiene. If she brings up stuff, then you talk about her eyebrows or whatever. Take cues from her.

    • Anon

      Ugh, my daughter was the same way at 10. And she still is at 17! I hate it and (admittedly) I constantly nag her (about the hygiene stuff).

    • Anonymous

      My daughter is 9.5 and what I’ve done is talk openly about what I do and why. I have two younger daughters as well who are all “why why why” so a lot of times we’ll have a convo like:
      4 y/o- What are you doing?
      Me: I’m shaving my legs.
      4 y/o: why?
      Me: I like the way it looks.
      7 y/o: do I have to do it?
      Me: nope! Some people do and some people don’t. Everybody has leg hair. See? If you look close you can see yours!
      4 y/o: can I shave now?
      Me: it’s not a tool we let younger kids use. A razor can be really sharp. When you are a little older I can show you how to use it if you’d any.
      7 y/o: when?
      Me: idk, when you start having hair that you want to remove? For some people that could be 9, 10, 16, 20, never? Hey [9.5 y/o who is watching] if you ever want me to show you to use a razor let me know!

      Or like, my 9.5 y/o has friends wearing bras. She doesn’t need one but I didn’t want her to feel weird about it. I was shopping for sport stuff for her and threw a sports bra in the cart. When all the clothes came i told her if she wanted to wear one she’s welcome to, and she might find it more comfortable under her jerseys (which are itchy!). She wears one all the time now and I noticed she wore it under a sweater too so the last time we were at target i breezily asked if she wanted to try the little shelf bras. She said sure so I threw them on the cart. Once she starts actually needing a bra we will up rate to something with a little more coverage but she’s probably a year or so off.

    • Anonymous

      I have 3 girls and my rule is if they don’t keep it clean and brushed (either them or me) then they get a short haircut- above the shoulders. Nobody has gotten their hair cut but I do remind them when they argue about hair brushing that shorter hair is an option.

    • Anon

      Leave her eyebrows alone. Don’t transfer your insecurities about your own looks to your daughter. She’s 10. She’s beautiful the way she is.

    • Anon

      “shaving, waxing, makeup” are not hygiene, they’re purely optional aesthetic choices, so please, please don’t make her think she has to do any of those things to be clean. They have no place in grooming standards, like brushing your teeth or hair or showering regularly.

    • Seventh Sister

      Kids that age definitely still need reminders about brushing hair and teeth, even if they like (or wear!) makeup. I think that’s pretty typical.

      When my eldest kid (now 15) was around that age, I brought up things like shaving sort of matter-of-factly, but didn’t make a big deal about it. Got her a decent disposable razor and some shaving cream since she’d expressed some interest in shaving her legs (light hair but a lot of it). I also encouraged her to wear a little bit of powder and lip gloss for her dance recital, but didn’t push her when she refused (the ballet school couldn’t have cared less).

      Even as a teenager, she’s not all that interested in makeup and hair stuff compared to some of her peers. Maybe that will change, she’s only a high school freshman. What I do say fairly often is that while hair and makeup shouldn’t matter, wearing a little bit of makeup and having neat hair makes a good impression in a lot of instances.

  15. Anonymous

    What tips would you give on a dr issue and a aging father issue? Dad is in his very late 70s and has been declining for several years since before the pandemic. Has gone dr to dr – cardio, neuro, geriatric, primary, psych, probably a few others. Has a blood pressure issue which is very hard to medicate because it’s hard to keep it in range. But otherwise as a ton of tests come back normal, doctors say you’re fine, this isn’t my specialty, bye. It looks to be something auto immune with complaints like constant headaches, dizziness, fatigue – he has had to stop driving. No dr knows what to do. A few have prescribed meds to even out blood pressure which he’ll take ranging from a week to a month, they make him feel worse so he stops. Most recently he had been prescribed a beta blocker by a cardiologist, which I was really hoping was the answer here because I’ve heard those are used to regulate things. He took it for a month and then stopped. He messaged the cardiologist that his blood pressure was getting too high. The cardiologist basically dismissed him saying – talk to your neuro, so now both him and my mother are mad at the cardiologist. It was code for – that isn’t possible as we give these to control BP. Point is it’s dr to dr, and these drs aren’t helpful. He mostly goes to Penn so it isn’t that the doctors aren’t experienced. He’s always been really focused on the doctors pedigree, big name health systems, ivy education even if they’ve been practicing for five decades and school doesn’t really matter now. Part of me thinks maybe he needs to go to younger doctors who may be more willing to sit and discuss over and over, rather than these very experienced ivy league types who are more apt to say – this is how we always have done it, IDK what else you want from me.

    WWYD? I feel bad just seeing this decline play out for him and for both my parents. They literally don’t go anywhere or do anything unless it’s necessary errands. Yet I can also see how he is with doctors not helping – former engineer so TONS of questions and over analyzing to the point where I think doctors probably get annoyed. I know they shouldn’t but they are human and if you constantly message them, I feel like they do start to ignore you a bit. This is all I know about what’s going on because while he’ll talk a lot about how badly he’s feeling, he’s also very secretive regarding doctors appointments and testing – doesn’t even let my mother in the room and won’t even tell her after what the doctor said and then it comes out as little bits of information over the following weeks or months. I’m at the point where I don’t ask – I am not going to pull teeth if you don’t want to tell. Tips for where to turn next? Home remedies? Anything? Is this just aging?

    I would love for there to be an online center at Mayo or someplace like that where he just does a web appointment and they say aha POTS or whatever, here is some med that’ll make you even halfway better. But it just seems like such a frustrating pipe dream now.

    • Anon

      Just aging. And how it goes depends on the mindset of the people involved. Alas, there’s probably not much you can do.

    • Anonymous

      Some of it is probably just aging, some of it is overworked doctors, you can’t rule out a functional disorder with those symptoms, or anxiety. His blood pressure may well be causing the symptoms he described in which case you’re back to square one there. I’m sorry. It’s very hard to watch. I would expect less from the medical system, and be pleasantly surprised if they over deliver. You might also ask about polypharmacy and de-prescribing – many HCPs don’t take seniors off of medication they no longer really need because “the other doctor prescribed it”. Something that may have been fine to take 10 years ago may now be causing him the side effects

      • Anonymous

        OP here – thanks for responding. I AM of the view that you can’t expect all that much of healthcare. He and my mother are of the view that doctors are gods and OMG IVY LEAGUE. I think a doctor who will listen to you and work with you matters FAR more than whether they went to an ivy decades ago.

        Part of me does think a lot of this is aging and because he is so sensitive to medications – doesn’t take any besides thyroid and cholesterol – if he even were to get a doctor to really work with him, they’d prescribe function changes like exercise and all. I’m pretty sure I’ve mentioned yoga about five years ago and he looks at me like I’m crazy. I don’t mean to suggest that things like yoga and exercise are the cure all when someone needs actual meds, but what can they hurt? So now I stay out of it as much as possible because he’s not going to listen, but sometimes seeing him just feels bad – you know?

        • Anon

          If he already has thyroid issues, anti-parietal cell antibodies could be an interesting test. Sometimes people’s stomach acid lowers when they age, and sometimes anti-parietal cell antibodies speed up that process.

        • Anonymous

          Statins can cause a lot of the symptoms you describe and there’s a lot of evidence that after a certain age, the drawbacks of staying on a statin far outweigh the benefits. Your dad is at an age where his doctors are needing to weigh his quality of life against the likelihood of preventing future illness – and in a near 80-year-old, the “future” is sometimes measured in single digits. It may be that giving him a few more good years with better functioning is much more beneficial than continuing to lower his cholesterol. If he may have another 5-10 years, at best, maybe the statin isn’t that important. You could talk to his prescribing doctor about having him stop it, and seeing what happens.

    • Flats Only

      That sounds incredibly frustrating. Why does it need to be online for Mayo or perhaps Cleveland Clinic? It sounds like one of those in-depth, comprehensive work ups could really help, and he might be game for it if he’s focused on prestige.

    • Anon

      At this point, I think you have to let it go. You need to focus on your Mom so that she doesn’t drown underneath the stress. Make sure she is seeing her doctors, is not getting depressed.

      I think you have posted about this before. It has been going on for years. The good thing is that since has not gotten dramatically worse quickly, it is probably not something terrible. His rate of decline does not sound very atypical for many folks his age, many of whom got worse with COVID isolation. No it is not just aging. It is aging + other medical problems. But it is not that unusual. And yes, high intelligence + anxiety/depression + men = not following doctor’s advice/worse anxiety and depression/decline. My father worried his whole later adult life he was developing Alzheimer’s disease. He never did.

      He needs a cardiologist who aggressively follows his blood pressure, and he needs to take their treatment. Yes, unstable blood pressure can make you feel bad. He needs someone to treat his depression. He needs a physical therapist to work on his dizziness, endurance and he needs a regular exercise/walking. He probably needs a neurologist who is an expert in these unstable blood pressure issues to make sure he doesn’t have something more rare. And he needs to pick one doctor in each of these areas, and stick with them. So they can follow him over time. He can’t just stop going. Because sometimes only over time do you figure out what is going on. It isn’t that all doctors are bad. Sometimes medical problems aren’t clear. And sometimes they just go away.

      Does he have any friends? I would try to get someone else, other than your Mom, to become a touch person in his life that he can trust.

      One small thing – does your father accompany your mother to her appointments? If not, could she ask him to come to hers? It can start a routine of supporting each other in appointments. Maybe he will eventually let your Mom start coming to his.

      And as a daughter…. when you call, can you start asking your Dad more “questions” about other things? Ask for his advice on a simple decision (something to buy/fix) or a memory from your past or a question about his life? It will help his sense of self, which is always crushed when you are depressed, and some people respond to this well.

      Good luck. It is very exhausting.

    • Anon

      You’ve posted about this before and nothing has changed. Your dad is getting older and you have to accept it.

    • NYNY

      You mentioned geriatrics, but didn’t say if he is still seeing the geriatrician. If he isn’t and it’s an option, see if he can be convinced to go for an initial evaluation and allow someone else to join them in the room. Medication reconciliation is hugely important, because meds prescribed by different specialists can interact with each other, and OTC meds and supplements can also be a factor. Anecdata: my MIL was falling fairly frequently, and I got her in to a geriatrics practice to determine why. We gathered up all the medications and supplements she was taking – which filled 2 gallon-sized ziplocks! – and the doctor found that MIL was taking something like 1200 mg per day, which is 4X the recommended dosage.

      The other thing is that, if you can establish a primary care relationship with a geriatrician, he needs to keep going. Specialists are going to focus on the organ system that they treat, but your dad needs someone who treats the whole of his health.

      Good luck. I know it’s not easy.

    • Anon

      It may not necessarily be your father’s case but my mom had similar issues with headaches, dizziness, forgetfulness, fatigue, brain fog — and got much better with B12.

      I highly recommend the book “Could it be B12?” regarding undiagnosed multiple symptoms – the misdiagnoses range from MS, ME CFS, dementia, aging, etc when it could easily have been corrected with B12 injections. Even if blood B12 levels were checked and even if they were fine, there are more complexities around malabsorption esp as people age – it is worth looking into.

      • Anon

        I was thinking along the same lines. I was diagnosed when younger, but it’s a condition that is much more common as people age.

    • Anon

      I have a One Medical doctor and she worked with me tirelessly to get my BP meds right. I also went through the cycle of not enough then too much medication and it is tough to find that balance. Idk if it’s One Medical because they have lower case loads or whether I just hit the jackpot with my particular doc, but I did join because I was sick of my prior doc’s dismissive attitude.

    • Anon

      Your dad is in his late 70s. His body and brain are not going to work like they did when he was younger, and he needs to come to terms with that. I watched my own grandfather go on a fruitless search for the treatment, pill or potion that would make him feel 40 again, but there is no such thing. By people’s late 70s, they may have conditions that are just not fixable with medication or surgery; they can be caused by structural problems in their brain or heart or blood vessels, and meaningful recovery may not be possible. Decline in aging is part of life and if your parents can still live independently and manage their own affairs – they’re doing pretty well.

      Nearly 80 years is a long time for people to be alive and just normal “wear and tear” on the body starts to catch up with us, by that age. I think it’s good to ask yourself: how much is this about your dad’s pursuit of better living and how much of this is about your fear that they will die, and not wanting to lose them? Which is a completely understandable emotion. But you can’t stop the inevitable from happening. It may be that accepting where your dad and mom are now, and helping them accept where they are, is a more useful endeavor than what you’re currently doing.

      • anon

        This is great advice.

        Both my parents had died by the time they are your parents ages, so it is really amazing to me that they are both living independently, juggling all of this medical stuff, and obviously very intelligent (no dementia). They are doing better than most. Most people are disabled by 73, average age of death is 76 now in the US.

        It’s a hard time for most of us to go through with our parents. No doubt.

      • Anon

        If there are other people in their late 70s who aren’t getting the same symptoms, I think it’s not too much to ask for an explanation of what is going on. If he has a treatable condition such as an autoimmune condition, he doesn’t need diagnosis or treatment any less than a younger patient. If anything it’s probably harder on him because he’s older.

        • Anon

          I mean, this is how aging works. It affects different people differently. Something like half of people over age 85 have Alzheimer’s but the other half are fine mentally. The fact that other 70-somethings don’t have these symptoms doesn’t mean it’s not age-related.

        • Anon

          Tell me you’ve never helped an aging family member negotiate healthcare without telling me.

  16. Recommendations

    Any recommendations for a middle aged couples trip: things to do, must see, must eat, places to stay, especially if you unexpectedly really enjoyed in Athens and /or Santorini?

    • Anon for this

      We did this trip a year ago. Athens was totally underrated. Come for the history, stay for the amazing and inexpensive (by HCOL US standards) dining. In Athens we could not get enough of our local bakery’s fresh feta & olive sandwiches (Takis bakery, near the Acropoli metro stop) and particularly enjoyed dinners at Thes (Greek Creative) and Mani Mani. Note we ate late, 9pm reservations, to be with a more local crowd.

      On Santorini we stayed at Anastasis Apartments in Imerovigli and tbh that choice of hotel made the trip. It was beautiful, quiet, calm, respectful, a total retreat after the bananas crowds in town. Bountiful delicious breakfast included. We disliked spending time in Oia and Fira because it was just influencer jungle, but loved dining at Armeni (down at water level below Oia, you take the restaurant’s boat!), doing a caldera cruise (skipped jumping in the volcano water since it’s not actually that warm and will stain swimwear), and tootling around the little towns *not* on the cliff. In general the food was 1000% better at properties that don’t have The View, so in hindsight we would have skipped Argo and just had room service dinner on our terrace one more night.

      • Anon

        This hotel rec for Santorini looks awesome! Just put it on my “dream vacations” list!

    • Anon

      Athens and Santorini is a perfect couples trip! We really enjoyed Athens and I don’t understand why so many skip it. We had two full days there – one for the Parthenon and the Acropolis Museum and used the other one for a day trip to Delphi, which was great (the ruins there are much better preserved than the Acropolis). We stayed at the Plaka Hotel which was pretty basic but had great rooftop views of the Acropolis. You don’t need a week in Athens for sure, but it’s a fun city and I’m glad we were there a couple nights.

      Santorini was a dream – one of my favorite places in the world after visiting more than 45 countries. We stayed at Esperas Santorini Hotel in Oia which was romantic and had beautiful views for a very reasonable price (at the time <$300/night – I think it's quite a bit more than that now, but still cheap compared to similar options). We walked from Oia to Fira one day (took the bus back) which was fun. I regret not doing a catamaran sailing day trip around the island. My husband gets sick easily on boats and it was our honeymoon so I didn't feel right going alone but I should have gone alone.

      Enjoy, I'm jealous! We were supposed to revisit Santorini on a Greece/Croatia cruise that was booked for summer 2020 and although we're pretty much back to normal life now, cruising is the one thing I can't really get comfortable with in this quasi-post-pandemic world so I'm not sure when we'll get there again but I really want to go back. It is definitely touristy and crowded but so so so stunning.

    • Senior Attorney

      We had a private guide for Athens and it was really worth it. I’ve always had good luck with tours by locals dot com, or you can try Viator or have my friend Claire hook you up (we used somebody she booked for us): http://www.claireintheworld.net.

    • Anonymous

      On Santorini, we stayed in Oia in one of the hotels under the windmills (Charisma). It was a perfect location, tucked away from the crowds so you don’t have people looking down at you when you’re trying to relax on your private patio. Great sunset views too.

      Athens was lovely. If I had more time I would’ve spent a night or two near Delphi so we had more time. We did a day trip and you don’t really get a lot of time at the site. We also went to the temple of Poseidon outside Athens, which was great especially at sunset.

      I can’t say enough good things about Crete. We spent a week there and could’ve spent another. Lots of history and great food.

    • Anon

      our trip to Greece was one of our best trips ever, though it has been like 7 years so take my recs with a grain of salt. we spent a few nights in Athens, then a few in Chania, Crete and then Santorini. In Athens, we stayed at a hotel with points, and did a 1/2 day private guided tour of Acropolis and Ancient Sites and also used Rick Steves to do a walking tour of the city (looked this up/downloaded to our phones in advance and it took us to some random, but cool places). If we’d had more time I would’ve liked to do the one day cruise to 1 day Cruise to Hydra, Poros, Aegina. In Santorini, we stayed at Andronis Boutique Hotel in Oia and it was great, but for any hotel in Oia, make sure you request a room further down bc lots of people gather for the sunset and you don’t want to feel like you have people breathing down your neck. Definitely do not stay in Fira. Imerovigli is also great and another hotel recommended to us there was Astra Suites. One day we took the bus to Fira and walked back to Oia, which I would highly recommend. We did a sunset sailing cruise through Santorini Sailing, which we liked. We also did a half day wine/cooking tour, which we liked, but have done better versions of something like that on other trips we’ve taken. Dine in Amoudi Bay. Wear comfy shoes if you want to hike down. There were some more upscale restaurants, but we honestly found so much of the food so fresh and good, we were just as happy at the more casual restaurants.

    • Anonymous

      there are also things they sell for seniors to help you zip up zippers and otherwise help with laces — you can also replace your laces with ones that don’t require tying.

  18. Anon

    If money was no object, what things would you still cheap out on? As I’ve gotten older and accumulated wealth, I’ve realized I genuinely prefer most drugstore makeup and skincare over what’s sold in Sephora, and all of my favorite clothes are from Amazon or Target. I think even if I was a billionaire I would still love shopping on Poshmark.

    • Anon

      I’d pay for good testers and color matching at a drugstore makeup counter. I honestly believe that those brand are constantly developing and improving. Other brands seem to largely focus on luxurious packaging (which is excellent — drugstore stuff is grades below on this front). But I wear the makeup on my face, not the packaging.

    • Anonymous

      My car. I am perfectly happy with a Toyota over a Lexus. They both get me from point A to point B and the extra cost isn’t worth it to me. (XM radio, though, is entirely worth the cost)

      • Anon

        Yeah, I am not a car person at all. I drove a Subaru when my HHI was $300k. My HHI now is $5mm and I still drive a Subaru. I don’t get fancy cars.

      • anon

        I’m super happy with my Honda, and even if I had more money, I doubt I’d go for anything too crazy.

      • Anon

        Totally agree.

        Toyota/Subaru/Honda

        Reliability, work-horses, safety, comfortable.

      • Anon

        totally agree….except if money really was no object i’d have a driver bc i really don’t like driving. also totally fine without brand name products for many food staples

        • anon

          ha ha me too.

          Actually I so so hope that driverless cars are really a thing by the time I’m aged. I am still far from retired, but I am already sick of driving, hate driving at night etc..

    • Anon

      Drug store skin care can be great. Cetaphil/Cerave/Aquafor are all great for my sensitive skin with rosacea/acne/aging etc.. Kirkland generic brand…. anything!

    • Deedee

      What a fun question. I agree with you in that the convenience of being able to buy my cerave lotion at CVS trumps virtually any actual skincare benefit a more expensive moisturizer could provide. (Also I wash it off 2x day so that just seems inherently silly to spend more than you have to.)

      For me, it would have to be furniture. I love antiques, but I love DEALS on antiques even more than immaculate condition. I’d like to say I’d cheap out on cars still, but honestly if I had truly unlimited money, I probably would buy a new electric car. I probably wouldn’t spend more on tech (TV, phone, tablet, headphones, etc.). Although now that I say that, maybe I’d wire up my whole house for great quality and seamless audio…

    • Anon

      My house, which is fairly small for our LCOL Midwest city (2,700 sq feet). I do NOT want more house to clean or maintain. If I had unlimited money I would do some renovations and convert our unused back deck into a three season room, but I would not want to build an addition or sell our house and buy a bigger house.

      I think if I literally had a billion dollars I’d probably buy (some) designer clothes and upgrade my car, because why not. But they’re definitely way way down on my priority list behind experiences. I’d be flying first class everywhere and staying in ultra luxury hotels way before I’d be spending money on clothes or cars.

    • A

      I would cheap out on the below

      M&S undies
      Toiletries – Shampoo, Body moisturizer, Shower gel, toothpaste etc
      I’d go to the same place for mani/pedi and eyebrows that I do now.
      I would not change my skincare (mostly drugstore brands like Olay)

    • anonshmanon

      I would still buy used cars, thrift store clothes and try to get used stuff on craigslist. I also save more on food than I need to, by not having much meat and mostly cooking at home. If I ever own a house I plan to do my own landscaping as much as I am physically able.
      I would still have board game night at home with friends any day, over concert tickets.

    • Anon

      I’m not a “stuff” person. If it’s a depreciating asset, I don’t think it’s worth spending all that much money on.

    • Anon

      Designer bags are not worth it to me. I like nice leather and good construction and things that last but I can find that with a brand like Cuyana for 1/10 or less of the designer price.

      I use a mix of drugstore and higher end items (I feel like you splurge on foundation/tinted moisturizer and cheap out on the rest) but I’m a Beauty Pie convert, which is truly drugstore prices for higher end goods.

      I have also never really understood people who need to drive new cars all the time, nor people who do leases. I have a nice car – Volvo wagon – which I bought “used” (5000 miles, 10k off the price) and plan to drive it into the ground.

    • Senior Attorney

      Haha if I had all the money I would want All The Fancy Things!!

      But thanks for the reminder about Poshmark — over the weekend I realized my beloved Gap Sexy Boyfriend jeans (which I have worn pretty much weekly for YEARS, though mostly not out of the house of late) finally gave up the ghost, and I zipped over to Poshmark and found a NWT pair that is now on its way to me! Yay!!

  19. Oz3mp*c?

    Anyone here using Oz3mp*c for weight loss? I’m falling down the rabbit hole of Oz3mp*c anecdotes. It seems there are a number of factors to consider but, on balance, seems nearly too good to be true. Curious about people’s experiences.

    • Anon

      I already have slow stomach emptying and was underweight when first diagnosed.

      Over the years my body adapted and now it holds onto weight for dear life. This doesn’t happen to anyone (it’s actually a safer outcome than when people just keep losing weight).

      But I wonder whether it will play out this way for a subset of people when slow stomach emptying associated weight loss is medication induced? Or maybe people who need it have fast stomach emptying to begin with, so it’s just normalizing things? I don’t know.

      I’m also a little uneasy about the pancreatic tumors.

      • Monday

        Re your 3rd paragraph- Novo Nordisk and affiliates say that people should stay on these drugs for life (including kids) to avoid the rebound effect you’re describing.

    • Anon

      I’m not on this one, but a similar one that is daily. I’ve been using it since January and have lost 20 pounds so far. It does seem too good to be true. I have had very, very mild side effects. I take my shots at night to minimize the nausea, which even at its worst is less than morning sickness was for me. I did have constipation, but that has been managed by upping my fiber and making some dietary changes. It has turned off the noise for food for me. I don’t crave food to binge on when I’m bored or upset. I still get hungry, but it’s real hunger at meal times, and I feel fuller longer and on less food. I was dealing with numerous health issues that were shaping up to be very, very significant and just the 20 pounds so far has improved those and my quality of life. There are risks involved, but I was already risking my health and nothing else worked. Talk to a doctor. A real doctor. Not a med spa online.

    • Anon

      I’m overweight but I have an autoimmune disease I take a lot of meds for and I’m just not willing to add another at this point. I have been losing weight slowly by counting calories, the old fashioned way. We will see what happens when that stops working, I guess.

    • Anon for this

      I started Wegovy (sister medication to Ozempic) two weeks ago. Very pleased. Has cut the “food noise” in my head and I don’t think about food between meals any more. I am satisfied sooner when I do eat.

      Despite being on BP and cholesterol meds, prediabetic, and high BMI my insurance won’t cover it. I am using samples my doctor has provided. It is expensive out of pocket, about $1400 for a month’s supply.

    • Anonymous

      I am on Munjaro and it has really helped a lot and the only side effects I felt were on the highest dose (the 15 mg), so I’m staying at the 12.5 level. I’ve been on it for 18 months and have lost 50 lbs. For me, I finally feel like I can intuitively eat. So, for lunch, instead of trying to figure out how to get the most amount of food possible into my body so that I’m not hungry in 2 hours, I can actually have a normal sized portion of salad with veggies and protein and feel satisfied. Before I would actively be worried about where I would get food next because I feared being hungry and not being able to get to food. My issues were not that I didn’t know what was healthy and what I should eat vs what I should generally avoid, but rather that I just consistently ate wasaaay too much/past the point of fullness and didn’t know how to really stop myself. For example, I’d need two salads from Chopt to feel full. I’d need 5 egg whites and three turkey sausage links in order to not be trying to eat my own hand an hour later. I know that’s really hard for a lot of people to understand, but it’s been a game changer to be able to enjoy a meal and not immediately need to know where I would get additional food from.

      • anon

        Thanks for sharing. Actually, this is a great explanation.

        I think a lot of people who don’t struggle with weight / weight loss don’t realize the hormonal changes that occur as you gain weight and how that affects your hunger response. It is terrible to feel hunger all the time. It is kind of a form of torture, and that’s why it is used as such. So binge eating is a preservation type response for some people. It makes complete sense.

        Glad to hear about your progress. Good luck to you.

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