ByElizabeth Hours Updated
Comments 322 Comments

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Palm Print Midi Skirt

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I’ve been waking up to single-degree temperatures over the past few days, so I’m looking forward to warm days and swingy midi skirts with sandals. For now, I’d wear this black-and-white dotted skirt with a black turtleneck and ankle boots (and probably nude-for-me pantyhose for some extra warmth). This skirt also comes in a leopard print, in case you missed your chance to hop on the leopard midi train last summer.

The skirt is $35.40, marked down from $59, and available in sizes XS–XL. Palm Print Midi Skirt

Two plus-size options are from Calvin Klein ($34.97 on clearance) and Charter Club ($29.73 on clearance).

This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

322 Comments

  1. Yay Elizabeth! This is a great midi-skirt @ $35.40, it is both cute and a real bargain for Fruegel Friday! Thanks for finding it for us. I also can wear this with closed toe pumps now.
    What does the hive think of the Weinstein Trial? I saw on the Today show that Anabella Sciorra testified in court yesterday, and she told the jury that he came banging on her hotel door wearing only his underpants. Gross! Morover, that is a very old cheap trick from college to get women like us to let men into their dorm rooms late at night from the hallway, b/c we do not want to have other people see half-naked men in their underwear right banging our dorm room doors b/c they will think we had s-x with him and pushed them out the door. Unfortunately, that is the trick– that is exactly the way men want us to think and act i.e., get that schmoe inside the room with little clotheing in so they then become able to do stuff inside with us b/c we too are only wearing shorts and a tee shirt, if that much. FOOEY on that!
    We women must be aware and protect ourself against men who do this, starting as soon as we go away to school. No one told me about this @ home, and b/c I was the first to go away to college, I learned the hard way when @ GW, b/c I fell for that old trick. Fortunately, I was able to deal with it by ME grabbing my bathrobe and going down to my RA’s room to tell her to get this smelley doofus out of my room! She did go down there right away, and he had to leave the floor immediately.
    If anyone else had a similar situeation, let us know, b/c there is power in all of us knowing this stuff ASAP. YAY Elizabeth for sharing!

  2. Is there a trick to not being exhausted the first day on the east coast, coming in from the west? It’s hard to get in early to get a good night’s sleep, since it’s far to fly here! And a 7AM start time is brutal, and I have a headache :-(

    1. I haven’t found any fool proof trick… just pushing through the first day with my usual ‘stay awake’ strategies: get out and take some brisk walks, drink lots of cold water, and get to bed early so the second day goes better. Good luck!

      2. +1 – I’d also say that you should fully duck out early and skip any dinners if you can. I’ve always seen anyone who flies in same day on a red-eye getting a pass on the inevitable team dinner, or only joining for a cocktail before heading back to the hotel to crash. Lots of cold water and walks if you can – good luck!

    2. I wear myself out when I get to the East coast, with a vigorous walk or a long treadmill session and then I can get to sleep.

    4. Unrealistic solution for most people but upgrade to business or first class if they have lay flat seats. I don’t even know if these are offered on domestic flights. I have never been able to sleep on a plane until I flew business overseas last year and got to lay flat on a made bed. Slept like a baby and arrived feeling great.

    5. I fly East to West then back for business every month. My best suggestion – take a red eye and try to get a few hours sleep on the plane. I typically fly out of SoCal at 10:30pm then connect through ATL/DTW/NYC and am in my Northern New England state around noon. I proceed to stay up until my normal East Coast bedtime, no matter how exhausted I am, and then get up at my normal time. While I’m still tired the next day, it jolts me back into my schedule. If I fly during the day and don’t get home until midnight, I’m confused what time it is, where I am, and when to eat, which lasts for days; not to mention, the jet lag is so much worse.

    6. I did it weekly for years and the first day was always brutal. The key, as others have said, is to power through the first day and get lots of sleep that night. Even if you are invited to a dinner, eat early, eat light, and don’t drink. Retire to your room as soon after dinner as you can. Everyone will understand if you say you didn’t get much sleep the night before.

      1. I need to add one thing – lots of people use melatonin to adjust to sleeping in a different time zone. It didn’t work for me – I felt hungover the next day – but i would say my experience is unusual compared to other melatonin users.

        1. I can’t take it either! Makes me so loopy the next day, yet I have no problem with Ambien haha

        2. It is so interesting how people react to things differently – liquid melatonin nand I am peppy AF in the morning but gravol and I am stoned for like an hour when I get up.

        3. The recommended dose for jet lag is 0.3 milligram. If you took more than that, that could explain feeling hungover.

          Melatonin is used at higher doses for things like PCOS, but I’ve seen the doses mismarketed before.

        4. How much did you take? You should only need 0.5-1 mg for jet lag. Any more than that can make you loopy.

  3. A question about actual gardening, not “gardening” — I live in NYC and finally have some space that could almost constitute a backyard. Well, it’s a very large paved patio. As the weather warms up I want to think about adding some plants in planters — ideally both some decorative and possibly growing some herbs, veggies, etc. Does anyone have any suggestions for good resources for urban gardening for dummies? I’m from the West Coast originally and would have just turned to Sunset Magazine if I was still in that climate zone…but a bit flummoxed by learning the basics for east coast winters plus the added complication of container planting. Books, blogs, other resources? Your own favorite tips?

    2. I plant annual flowers in containers – e.g. impatiens, celosia, marigolds. Make sure the container has holes for drainage, or if it doesn’t, do a thick layer of rocks under the soil and be careful about over watering.

    3. I discovered SmartPots this summer. I have a yard, but haven’t figured out just what I want to do with it yet, so, I’m using containers for now. SmartPots have been awesome – everything grows really well and they’re light, so it’s a lot easier to move them around (dirt is heavy. Dirt + pot can get downright immovable). They also make great insert/liner pots if you decide to have a few “fancy” planters.

    4. Brooklyn Botanic Garden and the NY Botanic Garden in the Bronx both have classes and books (at least the Brooklyn one has books) on gardening. I think you first step is to evaluate how many hours of sunlight the space actually gets – herbs and veggies generally need a lot of sun to do well.

      1. And don’t forget to always check your zone! Gardening and plant stores will sell all kinds of plants knowing full well they can’t survive in the climate. I am in zone 10 and the gardening stores here regularly sell plants that require a freeze to bloom or won’t survive below zone 7.

        1. I got 2 flowers on my forsythia in 8b last year… I’m an optimist where chill-hours are concerned :-)

  4. Does anyone else here live by the least harm principle? In the ever popular example of Amazon, if I find out something is bad I just don’t do it. Over the years this has meant substantial lifestyle changes, but every time someone brings something to my attention instead of fighting back and defending my actions, I’m embarrassed of my moral failings and become better. Idk I feel like some sort of a weirdo sometimes when I read the discussions here.

    3. OK, good on you. But it seems like there is a shadow side to literally everything these days, and it’s exhausting to keep up and constantly be changing habits. I definitely try to be mindful of what I’m doing, but I’m well aware that I fall short in MANY respects.

    4. I think the biggest question is why are you “embarrassed of your moral failings” when you actively living by the “least harm principle”? I’ll add, why do you feel like you have to defend your actions to anyone? We are all human. We are all doing the best we can.

        1. Is that your business?
          Why do you feel emotionally invested in the choices of others, especially people on this board who are anonymous, and about whom you know essentially nothing?
          Is this kind of judgement and contemplation of other people’s behavior the best use of your time and energy? How does that serve you?

        3. How can you possibly know that? I’m sure plenty of people could point to choices you make and say you aren’t the best you can but they don’t know your life and you can’t possibly know what’s going on with other people’s lives.

          If you want to live by the least harm principle I suggest including not being a smug judgmental person on the list of things to stop doing because its harmful both to the people you are judging and whatever cause you are trying to promote.

        4. Haha at first I thought you were disagreeing that we’re all human and I liked that comment sooo much better.

        5. Oh sorry I’m not the OP! And I mean, like, I am not doing my best at all times and I think that’s also okay! I know I could be better about recycling, and I don’t think throwing away a metal can is good, and sometimes I do it anyway, and I still think I’m an okay person.

    5. Do you have any tips on changes you’ve made? Maybe I’m cynical, but I think lots of things that seem better really are also problematic. Like I’m a vegetarian which is good for the environment, but here I am eating out of season fruit and buying mass-produced food that is shipped long distances. I’m also browsing here via my phone which was produced with questionable ethics as it contains conflict minerals and was made by people laboring under dubious conditions.

      1. There’s no “perfect” solution, but not eating meat is unquestionably better for the environment than eating meat. Out of season fruit and all.

        1. Factory farming is terrible, but if I were to eat a chicken my neighborhood raised on his small farm or a deer someone shoots during archery season I would argue that is better for the environment than shipping produce to the US from South America.

          1. Well, yes, but for I think a solid majority of Americans, that is not feasible/practical – so the general rule of thumb that eating vegetarian is better for the environment than eating meat is still accurate.

      2. Thus far my changes have been veganism, procuring all my veggies from a local farm, and all dried goods/prepared goods from a zero waste fair trade shop, being car free, living in a multi unit urban residence, purchasing all clothing and home goods second hand (except for underwear which I get fair trade cotton), repairing things instead of replacing things this has meant making friends with the cobbler and other skilled trades, composting, reuseable everything, no online shopping ever, train for travel. That’s what I can think of. If I’m missing anything big please let me know!

        1. I do none of the above (am not a vegan, buy from grocery stores, have a car, live in the ‘burbs, etc.) but I also donate heavily to Planned Parenthood and volunteer extensively for causes that have personal meaning to me.
          Does that offset not being a vegan and driving a car? Does that mean I win over you? Or … maybe consider that life is not the performative woke Olympics?

        2. Here’s some big things:

          Are you devoting your career to public service? If not, why not?

          What percentage of your income do you donate? How did you arrive at this number?

          Are you planning on having children? I’m sure you know that having children is one of the most damaging things you can do, environmentally.

          Are you planning on adopting children? If not, why not?

          1. I’m a child free by choice, already a public servant, not planning to adopt because my husband’s career (also public service) would make me basically a single mom, I would say we donate about 10% (of public service incomes), but we also donate a lot of time.

          2. OP, You sound so smug while pointing out all the ways you win at this game, while not realizing how many people your judgy conduct is turning off from even considering trying harder. You are giving environmentalists a bad name, not because of your actions, but because of your words.

        3. This is like living in a medieval village, except then you’d be a carnivore with 8 kids and die in childbirth or of the plague.

          1. Yep. If OP wants to live like this, fine. I’d rather die. I notice that her embrace of troglodytic “green” living didn’t include getting rid of her computer, or probably her phone.

          2. I posit that the only reason that she can do all of these things and not actually feel like she is living in a medieval village is because she still has an incredibly high standard of living — which requires a high level of consumption by default. Yes all of these things are helpful. But the level of “deprivation” is still very low on a global scale. No planes? Sad. Can still travel by train. No “new” clothes? Sad. Can still buy cashmere sweaters at thrift shops. Multi-unit dwelling? Sad? Eh. The average apartment/condo owned by the average woman on this board took a lot more resources to build than a multi-unit dwelling in a second or third world country. I find the decision to devote one’s career to public interest causes to be far more admirable than cutting down shopping.

    6. Why can’t you just forgive yourself for being less than perfect and try to be more gentle to You as you go about the business of living in a broken world? Does the least harm principle not extend to how you treat yourself?

      2. +1. For me personally, perfectionism/obsessing over my “moral failings” has really harmed my mental health in the past. I try to focus instead on what I call “continuous improvement”: my goal is to constantly seek out ways to be *better,* not perfect.

    7. Yeah, I am keenly aware of my many failings, but I’m too busy trying to be a decent person to be busy worrying about being outraged all the time.

      I know people who spend so much time being vocally righteous that… it must be exhausting. Like, I bought a cool necklace from a local artist. Oh, you know, they copy some designs, you shouldn’t buy from them. Okay, I gave somebody a gift certificate to the eco-friendly, solar powered, LEED certified SPA in our area. Oh, they don’t treat their employees really well. I brought a lunch for my kid in a reusable BPA-free Bento Box not made in China. You know, you should really use just glass and these magical containers made by elves that blah blah blah.

      Look, I’m conscious and that’s going to be enough for now. I don’t buy plastic wrap – that’s my big step of the year (I already did quite a bit and it would take me about a year to go through a full roll of plastic wrap but I’ve fully ditched it) and that’s enough.

      1. I think some people have become addicted to the endorphin hit they get when they can call someone else out for doing something “wrong” that they are doing “right.” It’s like a drug to them, and these are folks who probably don’t get a lot of pleasure, satisfaction or peace from the rest of their lives. For whatever reason.

          1. Yeah, I sometimes think that all the time and money spent sourcing free trade this and eco-that would be better spent contributing to election campaigns for people who won’t do things like reverse clean air and water rules.

      2. +1 There’s always someone ready to point out where you failed. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

        1. Yep. Like avoiding buying books by getting them from the library to read on my Kindle apparently means I’m still a failure for having originally purchased the Kindle from Amazon. It’s exhausting. Pass.

        2. Wow, the sanctimony. I like it when people post ideas and alternatives like look at this cool reusable bottle or sandwich bag. I like it when people post their own experiences weaning off Amazon or eating a healthy plant-based diet. But I feel like some are so blind to their privilege. I am still salty about a thread here and some other things I have read about not flying because it’s bad for the environment. There is so much privilege there. Easy to say you won’t vacation abroad if you were born to wealthy parents who financed your gap year hiking the Andes. Easy to say you won’t take a job that requires flying across the country to try a case if you don’t have student loans to pay off and a family to feed. Easy to judge others for using Amazon or buying frozen chicken nuggets from Costco when you’re not a single mom working two jobs.

          2. You know there’s a big difference between flying to Europe for fun for the 12th time and flying across the country for a case you need to try for your job, right? Talk about privilege to group those in the same bucket…

          3. Anon at 11:07, I don’t think we disagree. I am saying that someone who has been to Europe twelve times but should not be judging those of us who have never been but really want to see Paris once in our lives.

          5. Yeah. I was thinking “ten to one this is a BigLaw lawyer who represents oil companies to earn the money to buy those organic undies…”

          6. So what are “excusable” reasons to go to Europe (or any vacation spot)? I’ve been to Europe dozens of times – several times for pleasure but mostly for work travel. Is that OK, or only the work travel? One of my young adult children spent 2 years in an Asian country – a fabulous experience. We took our family over to see him on one break, and we flew him home over another break. Are those things allowed when after all we could see his smiling face via FaceTime? I want to make sure my plane trips are approved by the Corporette Policewomen’s Association.

          7. Actually, I think corporations should take the lead on reducing international travel. That’s where FaceTime and Skype comes in. Save the international travel for seeing family or new experiences that bring other benefits to the world (e.g., there’s evidence to show that visiting a place makes tourists more likely to care about its future – so more likely to donate to causes protecting it, etc. This is especially true for outdoor destinations at risk from climate change).

          8. Yeah, I agree, Housecounsel. I happily share my effort in eating less meat, buying less and flying less. IF SOMEONE asks about it. I personally can say that I don’t feel a desire to go to exotic ‘bucket list’ destinations. But the reason I can say that is that I’ve been to enough of them. And I will continue to see family who lives in interesting places. It’s not the same for someone who has never left their home state and only now has the means to see more of the world.
            Also, while I am trying to improve my footprint, I am VERY much aware that it’s a process. A while back, I started to track my air miles. Then only recently, I actually started to push back on non-essential business travel. Same with my eating habits. Stepwise improvements. I can’t reasonably judge somebody for being somewhere else in the process. So I just buy offsets for my flights and let everyone do their own thing.

          9. On the flying thing, I think that flying for work is, in fact, far worse than flying for pleasure. Tons of meetings can be done without everyone in the same room in 2020. Hire local counsel for trials, etc. Flying for pleasure is both personally enriching and provides money to local economies many of which are dependant on tourist dollars for survival…

          10. OP I actually earn my money protecting the environment. It’s not big law money but I’m comfortable

          11. “I personally can say that I don’t feel a desire to go to exotic ‘bucket list’ destinations. But the reason I can say that is that I’ve been to enough of them.”

            Right, which is why the whole line of thinking is obnoxious and self-serving and performative wokeness at its very finest. “Oh, go ahead and damage the environment because you want to go see the Eiffel Tower. *I* would never do that.” (goes home to scrapbook of a gap year in France)

          12. LaurenB, I apparently didn’t make myself clear at all. Typed too fast and too saltily. I am not condemning air travel. I am expresssing my annoyance with privileged people who suddenty become all sanctimonious about cutting down their air travel . . . . AFTER they have seen the world.

          13. And also – “hire local counsel for trials” sounds great and is usually doable but my job is managing litigation. I am going to hire the best lawyer for the bet-the-company cases that I can. If a trial goes south I have to answer for it. “I didn’t hire the A team because carbon footprint” won’t go over too well.

    8. I view this as a sign of desperate insecurity. I feel sorry for people who feel the need to change their lives drastically based on mere feedback from others, and not from a genuine desire to do what feels empowering and authentic to them. I also honestly think that people who post things like you posted feel deeply disempowered and mostly ignored in their real life and so have found a niche for themselves – where they feel seen and feel like they have power over others – online, in anonymous forums like this, where they can shame people and feel virtuous for their choices, and receive either negative attention (which is still a reward) or accolades for things they do that people IRL ignore or disregard. It’s very sad. We have some people posting here who are very lonely, I think, and this is their way of having someone – anyone – “see” them. I wish for them that they find some kind of rewarding relationship offline that provides them with the support and reinforcement they’re seeking.

      2. Ah yes I’m so insecure because I don’t want to pillage the planet or harm fellow humans in developing nations

        1. You’re better than us, OP. You’re a better person in all regards. Got it. Mazel Tov.

        2. Do you have a cell phone, OP? If so you probably fail the ‘harm fellow humans in developing nations” test. Sorry.

        3. When something hits a nerve, OP, it’s because there’s truth in it. If that statement didn’t resonate with something in your life or truth, you wouldn’t have reacted to it. Maybe try doing some self reflection rather than look to external forces for validation or reinforcement.

        4. WWF says that “Without proper safeguards, the soybean industry is causing widespread deforestation and displacement of small farmers and indigenous peoples around the globe.” Are you buying any soy-based vegan products at your fair trade shop? Point is, nothing is perfect, and few things in life are the zero sum way you are phrasing it (good/bad).

    9. I always think about the Good Place episode “The Book of Dougs” and find myself talking about it a lot recently. They talk about the unintended consequences about giving your grandma flowers, what seems like a good deed on the surface can actually cause harm – ordering on a smartphone made by child labour in Asia, the flowers were raised with pesticides…etc etc. and there is a quote that “every day, the world gets a little more complicated, and being a good person gets a little harder.” As BeenthatGuy above says, we just do the best we can.

      2. That episode was honestly some of the best thinking I’ve seen in years, on television or elsewhere.

    10. No, I don’t automatically change my habits whenever I hear about a “better” thing to be doing. The logical conclusion of your line of thinking is that you should cease to exist, since people are ruining the planet, and you are one. Since that’s ridiculous, don’t feel so bad if you don’t manage to make every little “improvement” that you possibly could.

      1. I’m not the OP, but I’m fine if the human race ceases to exist. That’s where we’re heading and I’ve never really understood the imperative (beyond the individual evolutionary imperative) to survive. We’ll be one of the millions of species to die off and that’s just…life. It’s not good or bad. It just is.

        1. I am assuming from this comment that you either do not have children or assume that the ceasing to exist will be in some distant hazy future where you and the people you love are already dead.

          I do have a kid – and I am not OK with the human race ceasing to exist. Hence caring about things like clean air, clean water, and climate change.

          1. I still care about those things too, but death is inevitable for all of us and I think that human actions regarding climate change have hastened that inevitability on a larger scale. The planet simply isn’t going to be able to sustain life for as many humans as we are all creating.

      1. Yes it is. And smugness is obnoxious too. Right now I’m feeling smug about not being smug. Thanks To OP, I have in this moment reached a place of negativity with regard to smugness. It passed quickly though once I had the very positive thought that I do not know this person IRL. Hooray for that.

      1. + 1. Not a huge Amazon user, but if it suits my particular needs on that day / for that purchase, I don’t have one minute’s worth of hesitation in using it.

        1. LaurenB, I get where some of your posts are coming from and I agree with many of them, but you could also consider different viewpoints. Some of the stuff you post is coming off as a big “f you” just because someone disagreed with you on Amazon practices or whatever. It’s not at all unreasonable for people to push for “one minute’s hesitation” before buying stuff on Amazon. I’m glad for the posts here that have made me consider whether I can make some easy changes that (collectively) can have a larger impact.

      2. Me too! And I love plastic straws too. But I do try not to throw them in the ocean, so I don’t feel bad about using them.

        1. Ummmm … you do get that’s not how it works. You can throw it in the trash and it still ends up in the Ocean

    15. No, you’re the only good person in the world, congratulations. The rest of us mortals will try our best, pick our battles, and be flawed.

    16. Why are you making life just.so.hard? I mean, live and let live. People are people and nobody cares what “principle” you are using to live your life. Just live. But — and here is the kicker — live your least harm principle or whatever, without social media. Do it without posting and seeing how many people validate you, do it without having to tell everyone about it. That would be the most “authentic” thing you could do. (Was that woke enough? Just checking)

  5. My office (somewhere in the 60s and drafty) has a casual dress code. I am apparently informally modelling the LL Bean catalog on most days and have achieved Maximum Turtleneck. There is nothing I won’t layer under a big bulky wool turtleneck sweater, which I’m thankful is a look now. Vanity is stopping me from wearing flannel-lined jeans, but I have fantasies. I am liking boot-cut cords b/c they are warmer to me than tights plus I can wear wool knee socks underneath for another layer.

    I dress much more business than casual the other 3 seasons of the year, but I have abandoned fashion in favor of warmth. I wore flats one day this week and was uncomfortable to the point of distraction because my feet were so cold.

    1. I’m in a casual office and in the Midwest. I do: cords + uniqlo heattech leggings underneath, some sort of long or short sleeved tee, and a fleece and or cardigan. Sometimes I’ll do a sweater on top instead of the layers. And then I do medium weight socks and sneakers.

    2. First of all, I love the phrase Maximum Turtleneck.

      My office does not have a casual dress code, but I do feel like my overall look is slightly more casual right now. Absolutely no heels (my feet get too cold, also I will slip on the ice). I wear ankle boots so I can wear my smartwool socks. I look at the shell blouses in my closet and say NOPE every morning. I’m wearing a sweater almost every day. I try to dress them up with nice accessories or by wearing a silky collared shirt underneath.

      1. You are funny. Agree that smartwool socks are amazing. Silk long underwear or Cuddle Duds under your Maximum Turtleneck wardrobe help. It’s my hands I always had a problem with when I worked in a freezing office. I guess fingerless hand warmers are the answer.

    5. My office is the casual side of business casual, so basically everything short of jeans and sneakers.

      I have been living in cashmere sweaters with a silk tank under, black or gray jeans with some stretch, and low boots. I also still have a great scarf collection so even though I’ve been told on here that scarves are no longer a thing, damn it I’m cold! I’m wearing my scarves. I tend to wear them long and then use them as shawls at my desk when absolutely freezing.

      I don’t even live in a super cold climate. I’m just in a building that has terrible climate control, so if it’s 45 degrees outside, it’s around 60 degrees in my office.

      1. OP: me, too. It’s usually only 20 degrees colder outside. It’s not like I live in Moscow but I wouldn’t mind one of those Russian-style hats right now (indoors).

      2. Where are your silk tanks from? Are they washable? Specifically meant to be undershirts or are they just tops that you layer?

        1. Eileen Fisher. They’re the silk jersey tanks. I wear them as camisoles. To be honest I buy them on eBay or poshmark.

      3. I also refuse to give up my scarves. I wear them because I’m short, and when knotted on the chest, they create a nice, long line that slightly hides my belly. And, also, winter.

  6. So after getting out of a long term relationship, I just decided to pull the trigger and start online dating for the first time. I knew in theory what to expect, but I guess I didn’t expect it to be so intimidating. Any tips and tricks for the uninitiated?

    1. I really enjoyed Aziz Ansari’s book ‘Modern Romance’ which talks a lot about this. It was a great mix of thoughtful, intelligent, and hilarious. Really good as a book on tape.

      2. I also liked the audiobook. But after hearing about his dating a few years ago when that big story broke about his date, I’m not sure he is really the type of guy I want to take dating advice from. He just seems like such a bro, basically the opposite of what I’m looking for.

    2. Don’t take it personally.

      There will be rejections. There will be terrible dates. There will be creepy messages from creepy guys. It’s a hard slog. It’s not a reflection on you.

      1. Some years ago when I was between marriages and discouraged about the dating pool, my therapist said “most men are unsuitable.” For some reason I found that quite comforting. If you expect most men to be unsuitable you will (a) realize it is them, not you, and (b) be pleasantly surprised when one is decent, rather than being unpleasantly surprised when the majority are not.

          1. Yes because most people are unsuitable for any one person, whether that one person looking is a man, woman, nonbinary, etc. It’s not that easy to find someone who you want to spend the rest of your life with and with whom you do actually spend it happily. I didn’t take SA’s therapist’s point to be that most men are bad, just that most other people in the world aren’t going to be a suitable partner for any one person. IME, that’s true.

          3. That’s literally the definition of “unsuitable” — “not fitting or right for a use or purpose,” where the use or purpose is “being in a relationship with OP.”

          4. I also read it with the implied “for you” at the end. As in, “SA, most men with be unsuitable as a partner for you specifically” rather than the therapist saying “men suck, writ large”.

        2. Hahaha, SA! I remember that. Still true. And I say that as someone who adores my husband.

    3. Others may disagree with this, but I suggest holding it lightly. Don’t think too hard your profile or messages, and don’t check multiple times per day. Let the apps occupy a small space in your full life.

      I personally find it helpful NOT to play a “numbers game.” I liked/messaged very few people, and I cut things off immediately when anything felt off (or just boring/aimless). Some people like to maximize matches, have lots of conversations, and keep people around just in case, but I am the opposite. It means less activity on the apps but, for me, also a lot of saved time.

      1. +1 to this. If you like the conversation enough (this will be maybe a 1/20 success rate), schedule date. It date was enjoyable, schedule second date; if not, move on.

      2. +1 to this, especially if you’re introverted or just don’t have the time or energy to go on dates every night of the week.

      3. This is good advice. Make a rule with yourself to only check it once or twice per day at set times, and try to think about other things in the interim.

        My overall advice, from someone who met her husband online in the early days of online dating, is to go on as many first dates as you can handle. I don’t think you can really get the feel of a person through their online profile. I usually made first dates a low-stakes event – a drink after work, or a lunch, some people prefer coffee dates – but I definitely didn’t let the online banter go on too long before I met a person face to face. It amazed me how many people I really clicked with online but didn’t vibe with in person, and vice versa. In fact, my husband was one of the latter.

    4. Trust your gut, and chemistry matters. After several first dates with guys who were great on paper and objectively attractive where conversation was stilted and I didn’t enjoy myself, I was starting to think that there was something wrong with me, that I was just an awkward person and bad at dating. Then I went on a first date with my now-husband, and it was an awesome time, conversation flowed easily, etc. So just because someone “should” be a good match doesn’t mean it’ll translate to real life, and that’s okay — on to the next!

    5. There was a TED talk on how to set up your online profile that was based on data. It was helpful for me to get a feel for how to go about the whole thing when I first stsrted.

    6. It’s a numbers game. Don’t spend time over analyzing the people on it. Decide if they meet your criteria (for me it was if they were attractive and seemed normal/nice enough) and meet in person after exchanging a few messages. You can’t tell until you actually meet them! Also reach out to people vs waiting for them to message you first. Keep steadily messaging people and meeting them, I would send maybe 10 a week which translated into maybe a date or two a week.

    7. One perhaps unconventional suggestion: I quickly confirmed, as recommended by many sources, that meeting relatively quickly in person, rather than days or weeks of messaging, was much more likely to be a productive use of my time. I also found the actual going on dates part to take WAY more of my time than I was prepared for. Not to suggest suitors were lining up for miles, but going out on dates even two evenings a week was too much for me. Thus, I resolved to keep first dates to an hour, tops, even if I liked them and even if I imagined I would want to see them again. One hour was plenty of time for me to figure out if I wanted to see someone again, and because more often than not, the answer was “no,” it avoided some interminable meal or event with someone I knew I wasn’t interested in. This also let me stack up two first dates, consecutively, in a single night if I picked two different locations within walking distance from one another. I did this often with two restaurant/bars on other ends of my neighborhood, with my house equidistant between. My neighborhood bartenders caught on, but that was kind of fun too. They were rooting for me.
      This “system” wasn’t advice I heard or saw anywhere else. Many of my friends thought I was crazy, but it made things feel really manageable for me and gave me some agency that I hadn’t previously felt in the process. And whether it was my system or that feeling or sheer, dumb luck, it worked! I met someone great, and I’m so glad I didn’t let myself get discouraged.

      1. I wrote above about the same thing, quick low stakes first dates, but I had to laugh because yes! Local bartenders caught on to me. But they were great! Shout-out to Elaine, who gave me her unbiased assessment of most of my dates!

        2. The best was the knowing look from one particular bartender when I came back in a couple times with my new beau and stopped coming in to meet other folks.
          Re: an “Elaine,” I think it’s also helpful to have someone else examine not just the folks you see, but your own profile. A male friend and colleague consulted on my Bumble profile. I took some of his advice, vehemently disagreed with and ignored other parts of it, but the exercise forced me to view my own profile through a lens I previously hadn’t.

    8. I was completely intimidated by it at first and it took a loooooong time to reach the point where I had interest from multiple guys who were actually dateable. That could be partly my age and location, etc. I had to just be picky, decide what was a deal break and what wasn’t, learn to just go on first dates and walk away if there was no chemistry and break things off quickly if I wasn’t feeling it. For me, it went in cycles and, when I was more available over the summer, nothing was moving at all. I finally started dating a couple people in the fall then, when a guy I really liked freaked out because we were getting too close (why are you even dating then?), I got back on and got more active and suddenly had dates with about 4 guys around Thanksgiving. Two of them were good guys, but one of those really wasn’t a good fit for me physically (my height and small build) and in other ways. I had also just met the guy I’m currently dating and knew that I preferred him. When it got to the point where I didn’t want to date anyone else, I held my breath and did it. We’re almost two months in and having fun! Good luck. It’s seriously scary, especially if you’re like me and haven’t really dated. I made it a game to find out as much as I could about guys before I met them or shortly after. I could often find out a guy’s last name before he told me. My current guy thinks it’s hilarious that I knew his middle name, his ex-wife’s name, and that I probably knew his niece, even before we had gone on two dates.

  7. I don’t know if anyone read the comments on yesterday’s hilarious Ask a Manager post about mortifying interview stories, but I was struck by how many times people mentioned wearing the conservative choice to their interviews (usually the full suit) and being embarrassed/not getting the job because the interviewer was either wearing flip-flops or something fashionable (for an artsy job). It was surprising because the story came up at least four or five times in a completely different job settings. Thinking back to the last time someone interviewed at my company (in consulting), that person was wearing a Henley T-shirt and got the job. I personally wouldn’t go quite that casual, but I’m wondering if the advice to always wear a suit to the interview is really becoming very limited to a few particular industries only.

    1. IDK — I am pretty senior where I work, so I wear whatever I d*mn well please unless I am meeting clients (in which case, I’m in something like an MM Etsuko if not a suit/blouse). So it’s staying in your lane. If you are interviewing, I don’t think it’s wrong to be dressed conservatively (for the role, not always maximum conservative possible dress) — your real self can wait a bit until after you are hired.

      1. That’s the thing though, these people weren’t getting hired because they looked out of touch. They never got a chance to display the real self.

        1. Like there is a “interview attire for a role” concept that needs to be acknowledged. Maximum Suit is not always right. Dresses for women are murky enough to let your clothes fade into the background so you can be noticed. The wrong clothes are a distraction.

        2. Someone wearing a suit to an interview is not out of touch. That’s generally the standard of what you wear to an interview and it can be tricky trying to figure out how to navigate dress codes, etc. The actual interview itself should let you know if a person will fit in with the culture of the org.

          1. It doesn’t sound like it’s the standard anymore though. That’s the point. It was in the past, definitely, but not anymore for a probably wide swathe of employers.

          2. We need to stop applying the word “standard” as a blanket across all industries.

            DH works for a stuffy old school bank. Standard = suit
            Sister is in start up. Standard = “snappy casual”
            I work in finance. Standard = suit and/or suit separates for a woman
            Other sister is a nurse. Standard = put together professional, “church attire”

            Seriously. Stop with the “Standard”. There are so many professions and disciplines represented on this board and standard vary by industry and sometimes even geography.

          3. But Anon at 9:51, we don’t know if that is why they didn’t get the job. Maybe they felt uncomfortable and then interviewed poorly, maybe they didn’t have the skills that the interviewer was looking for, maybe there was just a more qualified candidate, etc, etc, etc. I’m never heard back from places where I think the interview went great, and gotten offers from places where I thought I did ok at best in the interview. There are so many reasons that people don’t get jobs they interview for and you just never know why.

          4. Yeah that’s true and we can’t be sure they didn’t get the job for that reason, but the posters on AAM reported it being a significant factor in their interview experience (feeling uncomfortable/out of place, therefore leading to a worse interview). It’s not just that the interviewer will see your clothes and punish you, but that it throws off your confidence right from the start. If it comes down to you and one other candidate who is equally qualified but got the memo on the office culture/style, it seems like it’s a bad idea to be the one who is overdressed.

          5. I guess I just disagree that wearing a suit when your interview isn’t is a sign that you are out of touch with the office culture. My office is business casual, and I don’t wear a suit unless I’m meeting with clients or going to court. I don’t dress up for job interviews when I’m the interviewer, so I will be wearing something between a business dress and, on Fridays, jeans and a nice top. But if an interviewee came in anything besides a suit or a very nice dress and non-matching jacket, I would totally judge them for being out of touch with legal office norms and wonder if they would fail to dress up when meeting clients.

      2. Where i work (Tech) women, suits would definitely scare the tech teams. Some years ago, in an Investment Research job in the bay area, a Partner gently told me not to wear suits lest I be mistaken for being client service.
        A dress in a solid color or conservative pattern, or even a dress with a blazer is definitely a more popular choice in my world than a full suit of any kind

    2. My experience is limited, since I’m only in my late 30s, but I think the advice to always wear a suit to the interview has always been limited to particular fields. Even back when I graduated from college in the early 2000s, many of my friends were interviewing in fields were it would have been really out of place to wear a suit to the interview. It’s very much a know your industry thing.

    3. I work in a casual field (IT) and would think it weird if I interviewed someone who dressed casually. You at least need a blazer.

      1. +1 – I work for a theater company but as a fundraiser, so I need to wear a suit some days when I’m going to see a donor at a law office, and other days can wear jeans. My coworkers are all over the place in terms of dress. I still question the judgement of people who come in for interviews in jeans – I think it is best to err on the side of conservative.

        1. PS – jeans alone would not disqualify someone of course, and I think in generally being slightly off the mark in formality is not going to make or break anyone’s interview.

          1. Is being in a full suit, hose, heels, and carrying a formal briefcase just “slightly” off the mark when the interviewer is wearing a Hawaiian shirt and cargo shorts?

    4. In high school, when I interviewed for a job at CVS, my manager told me she hired me because i was dressed so professionally. I was wearing a nice three-quarter tee, khaki capris, and flats.

      My current law firm would not have hired me unless I was wearing a full skirt suit to my interview. My interview was at the firm. My current firm frequently does early interviews at restaurants, etc. If that had been the case, I would have done dress + blazer, and that would have been expected. (Previous firm I interviewed in dress + blazer at a restaurant during lunch.)

    5. First, companies need to proactively tell the candidate how casual or formal the office is. Law firms, accounting firms, management consulting firms, etc. can be assumed to be formal, but companies that might be slightly casual like tech companies and marketing agencies should clarify.

      Second, if you know a company isn’t super formal, it still makes sense to dress one or two levels above what people typically wear to work. If I know my interviewers are probably gonna be in jeans and button-downs, I’m not gonna wear a suit, but I’ll probably wear grey slacks with a navy blazer, or a sheath dress with a black blazer, maybe a cardigan if they were serious about being casual.

      I don’t think a perfectly qualified candidate is going to get rejected just because they wore a suit to a casual office, BUT I think if they seemed “buttoned-up” in general, that could be a problem. And if there are two really solid candidates, and one candidate looked the part and the other was way overdressed, I can see going with the former using the attire as a tie-breaker.

  8. Barcelona neighborhood suggestions? Will be there for the first time in the fall, spending 4 nights as part of a longer trip. Trying to figure out what neighborhood would be best for us. Our preferred style is a quieter neighborhood that has good metro access — so that it is convenient to reach the central-touristy or busier areas but not be surrounded by it in the evenings. (Our happiest find from that perspective, in Venice we stayed on Giudecca — a 5-10 minute vaporetto ride from San Marco yet light-years away in terms of tourist density.) Suggestions please!

    1. The last time I was there I stayed in Poblenou and it was great! Direct metro access to everything central, nice bars and restaurants but somewhat off the beaten path!

    2. We loved Eixample last Christmas! Great restaurants and easy walking or metro to all the sights!

      1. I was going to recommend Eixample as well. There is some nightlife, but overall quieter than some other neighborhoods (El Born, Gothic, etc.).

  9. Does Anthropologie have regular sales like so many other stores? As in, would I be totally naive to buy anything there full price? What’s a good sale there?

    I’m looking at their petite selection on-line, but thought I’d go by the store after work today. I generally wear 0P or 00P at BR or AT.

    1. They do have sales but not regular “40% off everything” sales like BR or AT. It’s more like, 25% off once in a while. So you wouldn’t be naive to pay full price. Sign up for their email list so you’re notified about sales. The physical stores do have sale rooms/sections and often the sale stuff is an extra 30% or 40% off, although it can be very hit or miss what you find in there. Oh and be aware that you might not find petites in store.

    2. Not what you are asking but I was on their site today and all their sale items are an additional 50% off. I picked myself up a new dress. Of course, it can’t be returned but at the price point, I’m willing to take that chance and donate it if needed (or pass to a friend).

  10. Question for the Bay Area people, how many of you plan to stay here? My husband and I just took the first step towards moving out of state to somewhere with a lower COL and high quality of life and it’s a little bit bittersweet, but I know it’s the right choice for us. I feel like a cliché fleeing California for greener pastures though…is anyone else planning to make a similar move?

    1. We’re actually considering the opposite, my husband is eyeing two jobs in the Bay Area, while we now live in a MCOL city. This is strictly for the job opportunities, I have no inherent interest in living in the Bay Area and am very nervous about the HCOL. Any thoughts/advice?

      1. Depending on the job opportunities, it may be a great move for you, but frankly we found it not worth it for the high price. However, I would consider staying here if we could live and work in the same city with minimal commute. Part of what’s getting us down is that we have to live very far from our jobs to be able to afford a good apartment, but we’re slowly dying on the commute. If your financial situation will allow you to live much closer to work, you might be totally fine and there is a lot to love about the natural beauty and the diversity here. I would also be happy to talk about specific towns if you have any in mind.

      2. (Also live in the Bay Area) You don’t say this specifically so apologies if this is not a factor, but if part of the reason he’s eyeing the jobs is because the salary seems so much higher than elsewhere, I just cannot emphasize enough how much you need to think about what factor higher it needs to be in order to maintain your standard of living (or to be honest, your standard of living will probably go down (smaller living situation at the very least) so more like, what factor higher you need to earn to have a tolerable-to-you standard of living). Sorry if that is an obvious statement that you’ve already thought through thoroughly, but I could see being temporarily excited by the $ amounts being thrown around, but as a local knowing some of what seems high would barely cut it. Also, if eventually you want to own a home, something to keep in mind for many houses is – at least in my neighborhood still – the price a house lists for vs the price a house sells for have almost nothing to do with each other. So when doing your analysis, be sure you are looking at the recent “sold for” prices, not for sale prices, to get a good idea of what you would be paying. (The farther from SF you go out, that might be less of an issue).

        There are many personal reasons we are still here that make it doable/worthwhile for us; in addition to those personal reasons the weather is fairly awesome, the proximity to amazing places (Carmel! Wine Country! Tahoe! Northern coast!) for day or weekend trips is pretty spectacular…but if you are not jazzed about the idea in the first place I think you are right to be nervous. There is a lot of bad about the area too.

    2. I think it is harder and harder to make SF work. The people I know who do it have something like family that has been there since the 70s/80s and they just never leave the family house (to the point where you have 3 generations under a roof but it’s b/c the kids can’t afford to move out). Eventually it’s a strain where >1 kid wants to keep staying in the parents’ house or the parents want to move to Arizona (but they feel guilty about kids who can’t afford to not have their house).

      For newcomers like me with no family or connections like that, it’s pretty bleak looking and I want something better long term after I’ve been at this job long enough to polish up my resume. I may leave for grad school / other opportunities but don’t think I’ll be back and can’t imagine having the $ to stay comfortably throughout a normal adult life / activities.

    3. We moved out five years ago. No regrets! We go back there annually and although it’s wonderful to see friends, eat at our favorite restaurants and enjoy the gorgeous weather, the traffic and listening to our (extremely affluent) friends talk about how they will be paying off their $2.5M house for the rest of their lives practically gives me hives. Life is just so much easier where we are now.

    4. I have family who lives there. They just live really frugally and either rent or got lucky with subsidized housing right before their salary went up. My cousin’s family of 5 (couple+3 kids) are in a two-bedroom subsidized condo in Palo Alto and despite the money they saved due to the low cost home, they can only sell back at the set price, which means their home doesn’t appreciate ever, so they can’t afford to upgrade to anywhere else for a third bedroom. The teens are likely to stay local for college, so even then they’re not moving out at 18.
      It’s not for me, but people make it work I guess.

      1. I saw that in NYC outer boroughs a lot growing up. Eventually, the third generation had had enough and they moved en mass to SC and now they all have actual houses and no one lives in the basement / attic conversion.

    5. Not in the Bay Area, but elsewhere in CA (still VVHCOL). We left CA for 5 years but ended up moving back. We saved a ton of money living in the SE, but HATED it. That money definitely made it more manageable to move back to CA, though, and I might feel differently if I also had to deal with all of the people and traffic in the Bay Area. The weather and natural amenities of California just don’t even remotely compare to anywhere else.

      1. Nowhere else in California beats or matches the Bay Area on COL, but I’m guessing you were in LA which is still pretty bad (but then you mentioned not having to deal with the traffic of the Bay Area?). Either way, I’m glad you found something that works for your family.

        1. Yeah, not LA either, but COL is roughly similar (nearly impossible to buy anything for less than a million and that gets you something in bad condition much less than half the size of the place I owned in the SE that cost 1/4 the price, so I really get the trade off). So not Bay Area levels of craziness, but salaries are also small town to match. I guess my point is that I understand how ridiculous the COL issue is, just think hard about where you’re going and how different it is in different it is in different parts of the country, which depends a lot on your lifestyle and how you like to spend your time. I just couldn’t get over differences in the weather, the people, and the outdoor resources and am so happy to be back. To be fair, though, I would have been perfectly happy living lots of other places that were not CA, just not the particular place that I was.

          1. Anon at 11:39, it sounds like you live in the same town in CA that I do ($$$ but salaries are awful compared to LA/Bay area). I’m desperate to leave and as soon as my DH and I can get jobs elsewhere, we are out.

          2. 12:11, I think you’ve posted here before and I strongly suspect we do live in the same place. I do have very mixed feelings about living here, but as someone who isn’t a big city person and really likes the outdoors, it’s hard to beat the access to ocean and mountains and I really missed it when I lived elsewhere. The COL sucks relative to salaries but I ultimately realized I could do so much on a day to day basis that I just couldn’t living almost anywhere else. So we spend on rent instead of travel and other stuff and for now are okay with that trade off since it makes every single day better when we live in a beautiful place instead of a blah suburb. Again, living in the Bay Area would be different, but some of the discussion about weather, culture, outdoors, vs. COL is the same.

          3. Can someone clue me in as to what area you guys are speaking about? Santa Barbara? Monterey? Napa?

            I’m a Bay Arean and trying to think of a VHCOL area that is not SF or LA.

          4. 12:47, ah yes, I am very much a big city girl, which is what makes me so miserable, I think. But yes, for folks who love the outdoors and nature, this place is hard to beat. My DH is one of those people and surfs, hikes etc all the time, which is how we ended up here.

          5. I am in one of those three cities, but the same could probably also apply to Santa Cruz and honestly to most of the rest of coastal CA south of SF as well. COL might be slightly lower in San Diego or some of the smaller cities on the Central Coast, but according to the COL stats I’ve seen, they’re often even less affordable because salaries are lower. SF is definitely in a class of its own, but most of the rest of coastal CA is still more expensive than almost anywhere else in the country besides NYC.

    6. I’m from here so I’m planning on staying, and can manage the cost, but it depends on where my kids end up. I have friends here, but I’d rather be close to my eventual grandchildren. I have turned down jobs out of the Bay Area for years, so I’m fairly committed to it.

    7. We are staying but we are lucky with a family home that we rent from my parents, short commutes, and living in a good school district. Everyone else I know either has a brutal commute or they’ve owned their house for 15+ years before the housing market went totally bonkers.

    8. We moved six years ago. Still HCOL but living in San Francisco as an adult was just awful even though I grew up there. There was absolutely no way we were going afford starting a family there.

  11. Yay — Kid1 got into a magnet program for middle school. It has start times an hour different than the school that Kid 2 goes to. Kid1 can take a bus at around 8am. Kid2’s bus situation is TBD — there is a chance it will be on the far side any number of busy neighborhood-defining streets (we don’t know anyone close by at magnet to find out where the bus currently goes). I am guessing I may drive Kid2 to school in the morning (it would be a 30 min trip in addition to my work commute) and spend the spring/summer try to find other parents for carpooling options.

    I haven’t had kids in 2 schools in 5 years (and then they were <.5 mile apart). Is this where parents in 2-working parent households typically get afternoon help? I travel for work at least monthly and think that this may be too much of a logistical burden (unless the bus comes a safe walkable distance to our house).

    I know some of y'all out there have gone down this road ahead of me.

    1. What time do you get home from work? Is kid 2 in kindergarten? In my town kids get home from school at 3, so kid 1 id let take the bus home alone and kid 2 Id put in aftercare

    2. If the bus isn’t a safe, walkable distance it is totally reasonable to call and complain until they move the stop to an appropriate location. They should redo the bus schedule each year based on where kids live, right?

      1. Ideally, yes. But I think that is more likely if you are of tender years (elementary school) but less likely in middle or high school. I think for older kids they center the stop near clusters of kids and may not know when it is dark (morning / late afternoon) or rush hour that any given kid’s walk home from that point is less than ideally safe.

        1. This has not been my experience in multiple school districts and just doesn’t make sense since some streets or neighborhoods wouldn’t have any kids going to a particular school in a particular year and some years there would be so many more students than the prior year that they wouldn’t fit on the school bus.

    3. IME, school districts have rules about when a kid is entitled to ride the bus (i.e., distance from the school that they have to live in order to get a bus stop) and how close and safe the bus stop has to be from a kid’s home. You can generally find those online.

      I’m assuming that this is for next school year. At this point, it frankly sounds like you are borrowing trouble. Unless your school district is horrible, I wouldn’t assume that you kid would get an unsafe bus stop.

    4. We have kids at two different schools and at one point all three were at a different school. We have morning and afternoon help with drop-off and pick-up. I used to do pick up when they were at the same school, but now the older one gets out too early and I can’t leave work that early.

    5. I don’t know how old Kid 2 is but I think you should reconsider your definition of safe. I hate to become one of those people that’s all “when I was a kid” but if your kid is old enough to understand street safety, they are old enough to walk on the shoulder away from traffic and wait for a safe moment to cross the street.

      I personally feel our street is unsafe because kids have to cross a very busy commuting state road to get to the sidewalk and there are no crosswalks. Everyone complains to the state and town and the response is “this is how it has always been.” Most parents here focus on teaching safe street crossing skills rather than changing their whole schedules around to drive the kid a quarter mile.

      Things like if someone stops to let you cross, make sure no one is passing that car, make sure that the other lane has stopped too and no one is passing that car. Keep looking both ways as you cross. They are taught how big of a gap in traffic is necessary to safely cross. You need a car as far back as Joe’s house to the left and a car as far back as Mary’s house on the right before you cross.

      It’s not ideal but the town is right. Thousands of kids have been doing this for many many years without an incident.

      1. Actually, our city has had incidents where kids have been hit by cars either because there is no sidewalk and/or it is dark without enough streetlights for pedestrians and/or drivers are just not paying attention (think of the multitalking, at dusk, maybe with earbuds in). I think a child in my city dies every year walking to/from the bus stop. It is usually older kids — young kids get picked up within so many feet of their home and often have parents waiting and tend have schools that start b/w 8 and 9:30 with short bus commutes. Older kids have start times b/w 7 and 8, so they leave in darkness or walk at dusk in morning rush hour (and/or have evening rush hour / darkness if they are in the later activity bus). Bad city planning (4-lane commuter arteries go through neighborhoods + newer ‘hoods often have no sidewalks). Some of it is kids making mistakes, but probably not even 50% of the reason there are problems.

        1. 11:04 here. That’s sad. I also think planners need to realize texting wasn’t a thing when they built the roads. Even if texting and driving is illegal people are still doing it. I’d love at a minimum to see crosswalks put up. We do have good sidewalks but as I said, kids have to cross to get to them. Luckily many people in town will stop when they see kids waiting to cross but sometimes that creates a worse situation if something thinks they are waiting to turn and goes around them.

      2. I would tend to agree. I have kids in 3 schools. If I drove everyone it would be a nightmare! My oldest walks a mile uphill both ways to the bus stop. When it’s cold or raining I either drive her to the bus stop or she gets/I get her a ride to school with a neighbor.

  12. After suffering from chronic sinus problems for years, it seems that I am finally cured (thanks, sinuplasty!). And I guess now that I can taste food again, it is all so delicious that I’m 1.5 sizes larger than I used to be (so straining in my new larger clothes).

    Has this happened to anyone else?

    1. I haven’t been thrilled with their tweedy pieces lately, but maybe ship it to your local store so you can try on there, and do a quick return if you don’t like it?

      1. Oh no! Don’t ship it to your local store. Do you understand how much that shipping hurts the environment? Raise your own sheep and spin the wool yourself. Don’t you CARE about anything?

    2. For another option, Boden also do some ‘fun’tweed blazers and I wear mine for exactly the same reason – smartening up jeans.

  14. Breakfast advice needed. I make my weekday breakfasts on the weekends and heat them up at work. On recommendations here, I tried the shakshusa recipe from Smitten Kitchen. I really like the recipe, but I’ve found that it’s a bit hard on my stomach. Fwiw I don’t have the same issue with the breakfast chili from Maria Emmerich, which has a lot of tomato and jalapenos but also cooks longer and has a lot of fat (chorizo). I wonder if maybe the shakshusa is too acidic for me? Any advice on how to tone down the acid? Do I just need to cook it longer? Should I add something to balance it out?

    2. Tomatoes are acidic and I don’t think there is any way around it, but if you want fat you could put labneh on it. Maybe eat regular poached eggs instead?

      1. Tomatoes are the deadliest for acid reflux, in my experience. I’d pop an omeprazole and enjoy.

    3. I am the same with shaksuka. It’s not for me – too acidic and I don’t enjoy myself when I’m reflux-burping all day. Just not worth it.

      If you have issues with acidity, eat oats (you can reheat precooked steel cut oats), quiches or frittatas, and if you like melon, honeydew melon is great and very low acid.

    4. Speaking of Smitten Kitchen, did any of you happen to catch Deb Perelman on The Kitchen on the Food Network last weekend? I’m sorry, but she was a hot mess. Looked like she arrived at the studio via tornado, had no idea what the cooking time was for the recipe she prepared, and had no idea how to hold a chef’s knife to cut the brownies she baked. I was embarrassed for her. If you’re going on a TV show — a COOKING show — pull your hair back, know your recipe inside and out, and know how to handle the implements you’ll be using. Gah…. Lost pretty much all respect for her in a simple 10-15 minute segment of a show. Does she actually cook IRL?

  15. I’m looking to make a lateral move (law firm) and had my 2nd interview last week. What do you think is a normal amount of time between a 2nd round of interviews and hearing something?

    1. It really varies. The first time I switched firms, the new firm moved really slowly. It might’ve been 30 days or more. The second time, I heard within days. Not that helpful, I know, but don’t get too discouraged.

      1. +1, it will depend on how many other candidates they are interviewing and when they can get them in (often more spread out than normal interviewing as they understand the demands on people’s time), as well as how slammed the decisionmakers are with “real work” or out of the office…. I would follow up at maybe 2-3 weeks past the interview.

  16. Wise Ladies in VHCOL or HCOL cities, can you share your wisdom on budgeting? How much would you plan to realistically spend on housing, food, eating out, entertainment, transport, travel, etc. as a single in your twenties or thirties? What would your big line items look like?

    If it matters, I have fixed costs of $1500/month for supporting parents (they live in a different country and will need it rain or shine) and $500/month of therapy (out of pocket) at a minimum, salary is currently barely six figures. No other loans, six months’ emergency funds at my current MCOL city saved, but my current rent is $800. Single and no kids, planning to move to one of those HCOL cities for a job that promises to teach me a lot and keep me working most hours of the waking day for a few years.

    1. You can’t afford 500 in therapy or to give your parents 1500 a month in a very high cost of living area unless you’re getting a major raise. You’ll likely wind up spending at least 2000 a month on rent alone

    2. Well, I think it depends so much on your city and where you want to live in relation to it. In D.C., a studio in a nice new highrise downtown will run you ~$2k and food will be expensive (several hundred a month), but you’d ideally live close enough to the office to walk. Your social life would depend on what interests you (bars? plan on $12 cocktails). You can live further out if you want, but consider if that’d mean a driving commute (do.not.want.). I spend plenty on gas ($150/month) and parking ($250/month in my office building’s garage) since public transit isn’t an option from where we live.

      1. WHY is this in moderation? I’ve been posting here for at least 6 years! (Maybe I need a new workday hobby…)

    3. All of this depends on your own preferences and salary. You didn’t give enough information about your life or what city or anything that will help answer this question. You’re not going to find rent for $800 if it’s truly a VHCOL city, though.

    4. Gently, friend, unless the move and new job comes with a significant increase in salary, I am not sure how you are going to manage with fixed costs of $2K after tax as you describe.

    5. The biggest line item is typically rent, and in NYC it is not uncommon for people to pay more like 50% of income for that, but conventional wisdom is more like 30%. However, your fixed costs are already more than many people pay in rent, even in NYC. Are you willing to live a ways out from the center, have roommates, have a long commute, bring lunch to work, limit meals out, not travel, etc? Many many people live in VHCOL cities on next to nothing because they have to, but it may not be the quality of life you want.

    6. Unless your salary doubles (at least), I think it will be hard for you to do this with those fixed costs. In DC a one-bedroom in a reasonably convenient part of town will cost you in the range of $2500 a month (not including parking, utilities, etc.). It sounds like you don’t plan to spend much money because your job will keep you working most hours of the day. But that just means you’ll have less time to cook your own meals, take public transportation, clean and do laundry, etc. So your costs for dining out, travel, uber, etc. are going to go up significantly to accommodate working all the time.

    7. Yeah, you’re going to have to take a hard look at your life and make uncomfortable choices. You can’t afford to live in a VHCOL city, you just can’t without sacrificing your own needs (which I include saving for retirement, replenishing your emergency fund if it’s ever spent, and even a small amount of entertainment).
      At best, you should get a roommate in a suburb of VHCOL city and find a cheaper therapist – there are many virtual therapist programs available at a much lower cost, or you can find one that is covered by your insurance that only requires a copay (if you have that type of insurance).
      You can’t eat out too often so I’d recommend sticking to simply easy to prepare meals (ex. baked chicken and salad could be done in 20 minutes with about 5 minutes of active cooking).

      1. It’s a little premature to say she can’t, without knowing more. Look up rent costs for where you’d be moving. Even in the Bay Area, it strongly depends on where you are. In silicon valley, a room can cost you $4k, but in Berkeley you’d get a 2BR for that money. Your fixed costs might limit your ability to save for as long as you work in this job, figure out if the increase in earning potential that you supposedly get balances that out. Since you don’t have childcare costs, it seems possible to me.

    8. With those fixed expenses and long hours, I would look for a place to live with roommates. In DC, that’s the difference between paying 2k+ a month in rent and 1k or less. With regards to the other items, it depends so much on what you like to do. Groceries are a little more expensive in HCOL areas than MCOL areas, restaurants are a lot more expensive, movie tickets are a like a $1-2 more. But lots of things are the same, like clothing, Netflix costs, anything online.

    9. I agree with the others. If those fixed costs are non-negotiable, you can’t afford to move without a raise. Your rent will at least double. For reference, the rent on my studio apartment in DC is $2000 and I’ve been in the same place for years. Granted, I’m somewhere that allows me to walk to work, meaning my monthly transit costs are roughly $0.

    10. Agree with everyone else. In my L.A. area city a decent one-bedroom is going to be $2,000 minimum and a nice one is going to be $3,000. Plus you will need a car and that’s expensive. Second the advice to look into sharing a place because you won’t be able to afford living on your own.

    11. Your budget is rough. I would live as close to work as possible to decrease commuting costs (and possibly, no car), with roomate(s). Then you can have $ to play with for the rest of your life.

      If you are going to be working a lot anyway, time will be valuable (hence, live close to work) and your home is less critical (so save money and live with roommates… easier to do when you are young….).

  17. Thank you to everyone who chimed in to help me face my fears about seeing a doctor to get screened for ADHD. I was initially very disappointed because my doctor’s office wasn’t able to refer me straight to a psychiatrist and scheduled me with my PCP (who I almost NEVER see. I typically see an NP in his office.)

    Today is day one on meds. I’m excited to see how today goes. If I don’t check back in for a while, I’ll take that as a positive indicator. Thank you all again for your encouragement!

    1. Please do try to check in! I really want to know how you feel and whether you think it’s making a difference.

      1. I’m finding myself able to focus without looking at the clock for 20 minute stretches verses my usual 12 minute max. Not a miracle, by any means, but I’m feeling optimistic!

    2. Happy to hear a positive update. I was diagnosed a year ago and medication has been a huge help. I also saw an ADHD coach, which I recommend.

  18. Not sure if this is depression or Winter but I haven’t wanted to work out for weeks now. I keep trying running, walking, lifting, aerobics, yoga — nothing sticks, everything is a slog. Any tips?

    1. The only thing that works for me is conning myself into during the bare minimum. So I’ll say “okay, we’re going to go to the gym, but we only have to run for ten minutes/run one mile/do ten minutes of arm weights/whatever your version is.” Usually I end up doing more than than, but even if I only do the ten minutes, at least it keeps the habit going. Scheduling workouts with friends/my partner helps, too, since I won’t want to bail on them. I also just cut myself some slack sometimes – I used to have a very “all or nothing” approach to exercising, which meant that if I fell off the wagon it would sometimes be months before I worked out again. Now if it has been a couple days or a week I just accept that that is part of the ebb and flow and it makes it easier to jump back in.

      2. I agree with this. Start super small (like comically small) and use the feeling of accomplishment of doing something super tiny to build up a habit. Once you establish the habit then you can build from there. When i say super small, I mean it. Like one pushup small. Or walk around the block small. These are both things I used to establish an exercise routine that finally stuck after years and years of trying and failing by taking on too much.

      3. This is what I do, and it works. For me making the time/keeping the habit of working out was just as hard or harder than actually suffering through the work out. This strategy helps prevent me from stopping for weeks which turns into months which turns into years. I finally decided recently that my goal would be to show up and get in the habit rather than run x distance or lift x weight or look x way. It’s way more effective than I thought, and I’m finally turning back into a person who *wants* to work out. Also, classes with cancellation fees. I always feel like working out at 8 am when I’m imagining living my best life and it’s not imminent. If I waited until the end of the day to decide if I “want” to do it, lo and behold, I don’t. But by that point I’m already committed.

    2. What if you gave yourself permission to take one week off? When I start feeling this way, it’s usually because I’m feeling a bit tired and burned out. By the end of the week, I’m usually itching to get started again.

      1. This. Taking a week off won’t seriously compromise your fitness or your health, and giving myself permission not to work out for 7 days usually is enough to get me re-energized to get back to it and feel excited about working out again.

    3. The only thing that works for me are group classes where I really like the activity (pilates reformer) or where the instructors/music/format is high energy enough that it releases a ton of endorphins (which for me, is orangetheory) – soul cycle/peloton/cross fit can also check this box for others. I have realized I simply cannot work out alone or just ‘do my own’ thing in a gym, I simply won’t go.

      1. Same for me. It also helps that my favorite pilates class charges a cancellation fee if you cancel with less than 10 hours to go.

    4. I struggle to get to the gym when it’s cold. So I compromise with myself and go but just do the elliptical and watch an episode of the Crown on my tablet while doing so.

    6. I’m a regular runner, but after I take even just two days off, I find it much more difficult to get back into the swing of running again. The best thing is to create a routine. Once you’re in a routine, it becomes easier, I promise. Also, like the commenter above, telling myself that all I have to do is run 10 minutes gives me enough of an “out” that I do it (and 90% of the time I end up running way more). Plus, my body feels better and I sleep better when I exercise, so that’s always a good motivator.

  19. Does anyone have a Samsung Galaxy watch? I’m thinking of buying one and wondering what people think of them.

    1. I do! I really like it. I’m a long time android user and find it works well with my android phone (Pixel). I got it to replace a running watch that went on the fritz, but I like the smart phone aspects of it more than expected (e.g., being able to see when texts/emails come in on my wrist if my phone is across the room or I’m in a meeting, having weather/steps/calendar/exercise tracker right on my wrist). After a few months of use, the battery was draining quickly (in less than a day) and I had to do a factory reset, but it’s been fine since and tech support at samsung was helpful in guiding me to that solution. Battery typically lasts for ~3 days for me.

    2. Not yet, but I have every intention of buying one as soon as they add fall detection (reportedly planned for sometime this quarter) because I ride horses alone, which is not the safest idea in the world and having fall detection would make me feel better. (Apple watches already have it, but I’m an android person).

  20. Since lifestyle changes came up, I have a question about shampoo bars. Has anyone found one they really like?

    I have curly hair and currently use Kinky Curly Come Clean at the suggestion of my stylist, because product easily builds up in my hair. I’d love to use a shampoo bar and ditch the bottle, but I’m worried a shampoo bar won’t clean as well, since a lot of what I found online were heavy on oils and butters.

    1. Now I’m intrigued! I never heard of a shampoo bar before and need to check it out. I have short hair and just use Dr. Bronner’s lavender soap head-to-toe, refilling the bottle at my co-op when I need more.

      1. I used to use a head-to-toe like that, but it wasn’t enough to clean out the product, hence my stylist’s suggestion. But shampoo bars are like soap bars for your hair and eliminate a lot of waste, but the trick is finding something that works!

        That’s so great that you’re able to get refills at the co-op!

        1. Ah… I don’t use much, if any product, so it’s a non-issue for me. Yeah, I love my local co-op. They have a variety of soap, shampoo, conditioner and lotion available in bulk.

    2. I use the most basic one from Lush – it’s off-white and doesn’t have any colours or strong scents. I really like it and find that I don’t need conditioner. I wash every second day, tend to have very sweaty hair, and use some product but not *lots*

      1. I almost forgot about Lush. I usually steer clear because their products are so heavily fragranced. I’ll see if I can find this. Thanks!

    3. I’m the OP from above and I could never get a shampoo bar to work for me. I ended up finding a local company that does liquid refills and has a spout in their shop. That might be an option for you if you can’t find a bar you like.

      1. I know a few places near me refill things like olive oil, but I’ll have to see if I can find a place that refills non-food items/personal products. Thanks for the suggestion!

    4. As a fellow curly, I can tell you that a shampoo bar, especially one that is even a little drying, will result in insane tangles because you have to rub it all over your head to get a decent amount of product on it. That rubbing results in lots of tangles. If you’re only loosely wavy it may work.

      1. I don’t find this – I run the bar under the water and then just rub it very lightly around the crown of my head. YMMV of course – we have very soft water which I think helps.

      2. The drying was other my concern. Some of what I found online had SLS, which I’ve long stopped using. I’d love to find a bar that works similarly to Kinky Curly Come Clean and similar shampoos, but that probably doesn’t exist.

    5. I used Chagrin Valley shampoo bars for many years (until I cut my hair short) and enjoyed them. I have fine straight hair so I won’t try to recommend a specific one, but I see they have a few suggested specifically for “Coarse Kinky Hair.”

  21. I have an abundance of Key lime zest, what can I throw it in that doesn’t also require lime juice?

    (Made pie yesterday and it called for 1/2 cup juice, so I zested all the limes I needed for that so as not to waste them, and now I have piles of zest just sitting there. Oops.)

    1. Anything! One of the things I’ve learned in my time cooking Blue Apron is they do a lot of citrus-with-spicy, so toss your lime zest in a burrito or taco or similar. Or add it to whatever protein-plus-starch dish you are cooking for dinner.

    2. Use it to spruce up a fish dish, particularly if you marinate the fish the lime zest plus in a kind of sweeter sauce (I use fruit oriented salad dressings for this, like a mango dressing)

      1. Zest is great when you cook fish en papilotte (in packets, parchment paper or foil).

        Butter your piece of foil, lay fish filet on top, salt and pepper, sprinkle with zest, then lay on top any veggies you like (a slice of tomato is pretty nice, so is very thinly sliced Zucchini.) Add a little oil or a piece of butter on top and seal the packet. Put the packets on a baking sheet and bake in a 375 degree oven 20 minutes or so until the filets are flaky.

        These generate a lot of delicious juice so serve with rice or something to soak up the juices.

    3. You can freeze lemon zest, too. I like to add it to sugar cookie glaze. Would also be good in spicy dishes as SA noted.

    6. Sprinkle it over an egg and spinach dish! I tried this last weekend and was pleasantly surprised.

    8. You could mix it with salt to make lime salt, or sugar to make lime sugar – both can really fancy something up! (We go through a lot of lime salt in our house, adding it to things like veggie side dishes mostly.)

    9. My mouth is watering now…thank you everyone for sending inspiration my way!

    11. I have a Home Chef recipe where the side dish is lime cilantro fries – I’ve done them with a potato cut up and roasted (cooked w/ EVOO, S&P at 425 for 10 mins-ish per side), frozen tater tots, and frozen french fries. After they are cooked, sprinkle with the lime zest and fresh chopped cilantro – SO SO GOOD!

    1. Make sure you don’t not like them for a reason that would allow them to sue? Assuming you don’t have proper documentation of any other reasons to let them go.

    2. I thought this meant just “letting go” in the colloquial sense. I was gonna say “keep telling them you’re busy when they want to get together.” Heh.

  23. Does anyone here have Hashimotos? I was recently diagnosed and am working with an endocrinologist on getting the amount of medication dialed in. However, I didn’t have any of the typical symptoms of Hashimotos or any thyroid symptoms (I had my annual physical and it came up in the blood work that something was way, way off). So, now I’m on thyroid meds, which I know can take time to adjust, but I feel significantly worse than I did before I started taking the meds. Way, way more tired, and even if I sleep 8+ hours I wake up more exhausted than I went to bed. I haven’t had any lifestyle changes that would otherwise impact how tired I feel, so I am thinking I need to ask different questions or try thinking about pushing for additional/different tests or meds or something.

    I’ve mentioned this to my endocrinologist and she just dismissed me. I’m looking for a new endocrinologist, but for anyone who has it, what kinds of questions/advice/treatment have you found help? Anything I should be pushing for that may not be that obvious treatment wise?

    1. No experience with Hashimoto’s, but I have a different autoimmune disease and you are definitely doing the right thing by finding a better endocrinologist. These conditions require so much management and you need to be with someone you trust. Good luck and hugs.

      1. I have another thyroid issue that leads to underactive thyroid, and you should not be feeling worse on the synthetic hormone – a new endo is definitely the right route. Given that you weren’t having any symptoms, I guess I’d expect that you’d feel the same, but that your levels would improve when they tested your bloodwork.

    2. There is definitely a more holistic view to this. It can be caused by inflammation and high estrogen conditions, and is often “treated” at least in part by a certain type of diet. Isabella Wentz and Westin Childs are internet gurus who write (Westin makes videos too) about this a lot. Some may be woo, but there is probably a lot of info you can use.

        1. I know as soon as you say the word “diet”, people freak out. Many these days would rather drink rat poison than eat a balanced or anti-inflammatory diet.

      2. That’s woo. Take your synthroid on an empty stomach at the same time every day, don’t eat for 30ish minutes after taking it. Find an endocrinologist who cares about getting you to the exact right place rather than “TSH is in range” because that range is very wide.

        A lot of endocrinologists like to slightly undermedicate because the effects of having too much thyroid are worse that the effects of not having enough. I like my TSH to be on the lower end of the range.

        I’ve had Hashimoto’s for at least 25 years now. It’s fine. You’re not wrecked. Of all the autoimmune things you could have, this is one of the most common and manageable.

        1. I posted a longer reply to OP’s message that seems to still be in mod, but I agree with all of this. Taking the dose correctly is just as important as taking it at all.

          Also, my coworker with Hashimoto’s commented to me once that there’s “normal,” and then there’s “optimal.” Optimal TSH will be different for each person. Your endo should be working with you to get you to optimal for you.

    3. I have Hashimoto’s and agree that you definitely need a new endocrinologist. I have personally found that a functional/integrative physician has been the best fit for me, but like any other provider, it can be a challenge to find the right one for you. With thyroid disease (as with a lot of diseases, obviously), medication balance is important – being overly medicated is just as bad as being undermedicated and can frequently have the same symptoms. If your t3, t4, and free tsh were normal and just your thyroid antibodies were high with no symptoms, I would want a really clear treatment plan from the physician about exactly which medication and dosage you’re taking and why.

    4. tl;dr: you probably just need more time for your body to respond to the meds, and need to get your TSH checked 6-8 weeks after a dose change to make sure it’s lowering your TSH – don’t wait 3 full months if you’re feeling awful. If you’re still in this phase of getting your TSH to goal, no further tests needed at this point. If your TSH is at goal but you’re still feeling exhausted, that’s when you need to discuss other tests.

      I have Hashimoto’s, diagnosed about 1.5 years ago after blood tests at my annual physical showed TSH above 5 (I also had an enlarged thyroid, which is why she added the thyroid tests to the typical blood panel; I also had thyroid antibodies show up several years ago, so it was sort of a matter of time before I’d start having compromised thyroid function). I couldn’t say I was really feeling too many symptoms at the time, other than the obviously enlarged thyroid and having gained some weight (maybe 5-7 lbs, which is significant for me, but not significant clinically).

      My PCP then put me on levothyroxine and I came in to get my TSH checked every 2-3 months or so. After about 6 months I was “stable” and within the top end of the normal range, so she stopped raising the dose and kept me at 50mcg. Then a few months later I felt ungodly exhausted, just like you’re describing. I happened to have an appointment about something else a few days later so asked for my levels to be checked at that time. Yup, TSH was back up above the threshold so she increased me to 75 mcg.

      At that point I went to an endocrinologist because I didn’t feel the issue was getting the attention it deserved (if you have Hashimoto’s and you’re a woman of childbearing age your should TSH be under 2.5 or at least under 3). Mine was around 4 (but in the “normal” range) when my PCP said she would stop raising my dose (because now it was “normal”!; part of the problem of just allowing your TSH to be near the top of the range but not 2.5ish is that if your levels get off again, it’s really easy to wind up way above the threshold and feeling totally awful, which is exactly what happened to me). Long story short, the 75 mcg made me feel a million times better and stabilized me in the low 2s, and now I’m seeing the endocrinologist every 6 months, but instructed to come in for blood tests in between if I feel off.

      All this to say, your endocrinologist should not be dismissing your exhaustion because that’s a classic sign your TSH is off and you need a higher dose. If she’s dismissing you because your TSH is above goal and she’s still upping your dose of levothyroxine, that is ok in my book. You’re still working on dialing in the dose and it can take a few weeks for it to take effect after changing dose. If your TSH is at goal but you’re still feeling awful, then she should not be dismissing you and you should be asking for more tests. For example, I have a coworker who has Hashimoto’s but also has difficulty converting T4 to T3, so she needs to take an additional dose of T3 in addition to the levothyroxine. But generally speaking, unless there is actually another underlying issue, you only need to test the TSH (not T4 or T3) to ensure you’re on the right dose.

      FWIW, when I was first diagnosed, my TSH was around 5. Then I started on 25 mcg. When I went in for my next blood test 3 months later, my TSH was over 6 – and that was ON the 25 mcg. Then it got raised to 50 mcg, which brought it down to around 4 I think. At no point during that time was I feeling terrible, just gaining more weight (thanks, thyroid). It was only after I’d been “stable” around 4 for a few months and it spiked again to above 5 that I felt the exhaustion. So if you’ve just been diagnosed, you probably just need to get your TSH tested again 6-8 weeks after the last dose change to see what’s happening.

  24. What does a background check for employment in a state tax and finance department entail? Is it more comprehensive than one done in another department? What do they mean when they say a thorough character investigation may be required? I worry about this due to being in toxic work situations where people were abusive and intentionally tried to throw people under the bus for no reason.

    Should I be worried about them looking through my tax returns when I’ve had an extended period of unemployment? Will information obtained in this check become fodder for office gossip or be stored in a less than secure location?

    Starting to think this is just not worth it, but an opportunity is an opportunity…

    1. Ok pls chill. They’re looking for reasons you might be a risk to steal financial data. Not office gossip. Of course everything will be kept confidential.

    2. I’ve never dealt with a background check at the state level and I would guess it varies from state to state. But, at the federal level, background checks are conducted by a limited pool of people and, at a certain security level, the FBI. The information isn’t available to anyone else, and I would be shocked if that was different at a state level given privacy laws. They may look at past tax returns, but I wouldn’t worry unless you lied or cheated on your taxes. They will probably run a credit check and look at any debts you have. They may do a character and fitness type interview. They are trying to determine if you can be bribed or are likely to steal from them.

      I’m hearing a lot of anxiety in your post. Any chance this is fear or a overreaction coming from anxiety?

    3. “Will information obtained in this check become fodder for office gossip or be stored in a less than secure location?” Not if this office is anywhere close to being normally functional, of course it won’t be shared.

      They’re doing background checks to make sure you’re not in tons of debt/won’t try to steal money. I think you’re being a little paranoid about it.

    4. As someone who has been through a security clearance background check (it’s 130 pages just to fill out and so invasive), I know how you feel right now and please breathe – I promise you that unless you’ve robbed a bank, have huge debts, take money risks (gambling, sketchy investments, etc.) or have some sort of felony in your record, you will be absolutely fine!

      As for the character investigation, they likely will not talk to former employers because most can’t say anything anyways. They will ask you for references – friends, former roommates, coworkers, etc. You will get to choose who they speak too (if it’s federal, they might ask your references for other people that know you). They will ask these people if you have debt, if you gamble, if you do drugs/drink a lot, etc. And this will probably only happen if something flags in your background check.

      RE: the unemployment gap – that’s not a problem unless you somehow came into a large sum of money through some not-so-legal way.

      I had to do a background check with 12-panel drug test and then the security clearance investigation (which took a full year AND an in-person interview with an investigator) – I understand how you feel, I really do because I’ve been there but your anxiety is getting the best of you! Deep breath – it’s very likely that company you are applying to will NOT even do the background check; most companies hire out a third party because of all the privacy, HIPPA, PPI laws. So your info will be safe.

      All they want to know is if you can be trusted with money that’s not yours and if you file your taxes, honestly. Even if you have debt, it’s okay! They won’t be looking into the nuances of your finances; just if you can be trusted.

      1. I just feel uncomfortable explaining how I was supported by family when I was unemployed. I think they will see there is no income and they will be curious. People I worked with years ago probably work for this agency and I’m afraid they will find out how long I was unemployed…They won’t be going through my tax records, but I assume some employee from tax and finance will…

        I’m a private person and have had personal things revealed to the wrong people a lot…even by trusted family members…and it hurt me in many ways. I don’t like to have my dirty laundry out there…

        1. You really need to relax about this. You are not the first person, nor will you be the last, to have periods of unemployment. A background check is not the same as airing your dirty laundry.

  25. Just wanted to hear people’s thoughts. I am in the process re-designing my boutique law firm’s website. One of our attorneys (a man) refuses to have his photo on the website. He cites unspecified security concerns. I’m upset — I can’t think of a single law firm that doesn’t post photos of their attorneys, and I think it will look really strange not to have a huge gap on the bio page, especially since there’s not that many of us. But at the end of the day, it’s his choice. I’m just wondering, out of curiosity, how other people feel about this, because I’m having a really hard time understanding where he’s coming from. We are spending a lot of money on this project, I think digital marketing and branding is really important, and I find this very frustrating.

    1. If he doesn’t want his picture posted, don’t post it. This is really not a big deal…

    2. I’d just come up with a default image (maybe your firm’s logo) and move on. You’ll want to think through how to display people’s bios before they have their headshots taken anyway; his will just look like that permanently. It’s not like no one can have their photo just because he doesn’t, right?

    3. Let it go. It reflects more on him than on you or the firm and it’s not worth getting into a pi$$ing contest about.

      Maybe ask him if he is willing to provide some other photo like an arty shot of the beach at sunset?

    5. As someone who once had the very unpleasant experience of having my firm head shot spread all over the internet with some unpleasant remarks by a disgruntled litigant, I think you are being a little hard on him.

    6. That would so not fly at my firm. Any lawyer refusing would be invited to have an uncomfortable conversation wit the managing partner.

    7. Have you considered that this lawyer may have a real security concern? And that it’s possibly personal and painful?

      I really wouldn’t want to get in the habit of telling people that a marketing project is more important than their safety.

      1. See my original above, where I note it’s his choice. I’m not asking for advice on what to do — I’ve already decided to let it be. I was just curious about people’s reactions.

    8. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and just let it be. You don’t know his situation or his past. Does he have a dog or some other pet? Hobby? Alma mater that he’s proud of? Something in his bio that you can use – “JimBob uses his spare time to play frisbee with Fido/root for College football team/go speed boating on the lake” – then get a picture of his dog, college team, speed boat? I’ve seen that before on Bio pages.

    9. What the heck? There are tons of firms where a particular attorney doesn’t have their photo on the website. As an in house lawyer/potential client, I wouldn’t think anything of it at all. When I go to an attorney’s bio page, 99% of the time I am looking for their law school and graduation year. I do not care what they look like.

    10. You are over-personalizing this and need to let it go.

      And this is coming from someone who does communications and marketing work for a living.

      2. +2 from another comms person. It’s really not that big a deal and you’re way overreacting.

  26. I’ve been on three really promising dates with a new guy (met through friends). I’m perplexed by this guy’s texting habits. I’m not a big texter, but I guess I’ve gotten accustomed to a little communication between dates to show interest. With this guy, he almost never initiates a text and if I text, he will respond many (5+) non-business hours later or the next day. For one date, I thought I was getting stood up because I texted him early in the morning to confirm and he didn’t respond until 10 minutes before our scheduled date that night (to say he was on his way). When we’re together, he is very attentive and seems interested. The lack of communication between dates is making me second guess the connection. But maybe this is just how he is? My friends are torn between – he’s just not that into you vs stop overanalyzing this and just go with it. Thoughts?

    1. My sweet husband is the best man in the world and but also the worst texter and it used to drive me insane when we were dating. (Still does, a bit.) So there’s that.

      That said, if more than zero texting is important to you, that’s a call you get to make and you can certainly have a conversation about it and/or break up over it.

    2. He’s a guy who doesn’t look at his phone all the time, is my guess. I wouldn’t take it personally. It can be a deal breaker for you, because you get to decide what your deal breakers are, but I think it’s a leap to feel rejected by it.

    3. Any chance he works a job where he doesn’t have access to his phone? My husband has to leave his outside of his secure facility.

      I’d definitely say your 4th date is definitely an ok time to give him a gentle ribbing about it.

      1. Re the job – nope, but I don’t consider business hours as hours that are available for texting anyway. It wouldn’t occur to me to be upset that I’m not getting a text during the workday. I start to feel a little concerned, though, if I texted you at 7 am when I left the gym and I still haven’t heard from you by 9 pm when I know you’ve been out of the office for 3-4 hours (that’s what I meant by 5+ non-business hours of nonresponsiveness).

        1. This would likely be a deal breaker for me. I am sure it would not be a deal breaker for everyone, but no contact for 14+ hours after I sent a message would really annoy me.

          I would probably mention it to him though and see if things improve before giving up completely.

        2. I think he would be more attentive to you if you made it worth his wile, namely, dad says for you to make yourself indispensible to him and he will keep you in his thoughts such that when he gets a text from you, he will jump at the chance to respond, if not initiate texts. I will leave it up to you to determine prescsely how you can become indispensible, as you and him have been together, if not intimate already, so it’s your turn to figure it out yourself. Good luck to you and him and the texts! YAY!

    4. It’s possible that he doesn’t look at his phone often, doesn’t text with others and isn’t in the habit, doesn’t have access to his phone at work, etc. Or its possible that he is just not that in to you. When I dated a guy like that for a few months, my friends where all like he just must not be a phone guy. But the truth was that he was happy to have fun and hang out with me, but wasn’t that in to a relationship with me as I learned when I asked him about being exclusive.

      None of us will be able to answer that question. But you have friends in common, right? could you ask them about his texting habits?

    5. I have the same issue with my BF, but 8 months in I have mostly gotten over it and he’s gotten better. I am glad I didn’t ditch a good prospect because of our disparate uses of technology. I would have a discussion just around the confirmation of dates, though. “Hey, when we have something planned, can you just confirm the day before or early in the day that we are still on?”

      1. +1. I have a rule that I’ll consider any response within 24 hours fair game on my part and his unless we’re trying to meet up that evening (because one can get slammed at work and it’s genuinely possible that one won’t have time or forget to text back in a 15 hour timeframe), and will let guys know my texting habits (and expectations) in the first few dates. I also let them know that I set up all my appointments and dinners a week in advance (I’m a planner), so they know to set things up in advance if they want to see me!

    6. I’d say by the 4th date you could ask. My husband responds to me, but basically only me, and because we’ve been married over a decade and together for over 15 years.

      His mother will text him and he will get back to her at the end of the week, if at all. His friends will text on a Tuesday about getting together two weekends in the future, and he will text the Friday of the weekend in question. It’s super annoying, but he knows better than to do it to me.

      1. This is me. If you want to talk to me, send me an email. I hate typing on the phone and I literally use it as a… phone.

Comments are closed.