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I mentioned this product in my roundup of the big Amazon sales last week, but: this is one of my favorite purchases of the last six months or so, and has become my go-to choice for my 1 minute-just-running-errands makeup routine.
(The full just-running-errands makeup routine: sunscreen, this Youthforia liquid blush, this e.l.f. undereye concealer/highlighter, and the featured lip gloss.)
I don't actually know of an American product that compares to this one — it goes on like a liquid, and has an immediate finish like a shine (not sticky but definitely shiny). The shine fades pretty quickly (30 minutes? 60 minutes?) and you're left with a tint and — somehow — moisturized lips. I'd say the tint and moisture lasts three hours, but I haven't clocked it.
Almost all of the colors are like a MLBB tint… very subtle shades.
I had bought the color “Rose in Mind” previously, and bought two more that haven't arrived yet: Mauve Chaos (pictured) and Berry Pretty. I would say that the color Rose in Mind is accurately depicted in the product images.
Peripera is a Korean makeup brand that sells at drugstore prices on Amazon; this one is showing as under $10 for me today.
(You may be wondering how I found such a random thing… I had a Sephora lip gloss, bought on sale, that I loved during the pandemic — they were popularized at the time for not coming off on your mask. When Sephora discontinued it I found that it was a dupe for this type of Korean lip gloss. I've bought similar products from a few different brands, but this Peripera one is my favorite thus far.)
Psst: these are some of our favorite MLBB tints (“my lips but better”) — a super easy office makeup look! Also check out this $20 option from Amazon; it's a great Dior Addict Lip Glow dupe. Other recent favorites, both very affordable: this NYX gloss, and this Peripera glowy tint.
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 40% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – New sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
Portland rec’s, please!
Portland rec’s, please!
My friend and I are planning a trip to Portland in Nov. She likes wine and would love to do some tastings. I love books and vegetarian food. We’re already planning to do a hike to Multnomah Falls, the Sat / Sunday Market, and Powell’s.
Recs for places to stay? We’ll have a car. Budget ideally around $200/night.
Ideas for things to do that are uniquely Portlandish?
Thanks so much!
Anon
Not sure if you want Airbnb vs hotel, but when we did a week I loved staying at our Airbnb near Hawthorne. We had a ton of walkable eateries (many vegetarian options, I’m also veggie) including a food truck pod. The Observatory has some of the best mixed drinks I’ve ever had (The Cumin Centipede), Salt and Straw has great ice cream, and I love PDX sliders (limited options for vegetarians but still excellent).
Anon
I wish I could give you better recs but I have a small child and am uncool. But in general I highly recommend a day trip out to wine country to just try some different wineries. I don’t think it matters a ton which ones but the scenery in the area is incredible.
I always recommend people get out of downtown and into some of the east side neighborhoods which is easy with a car. SE Division has a lot of good restaurants and I think the Alberta Arts district is fun to wander around. I live in St. Johns – you can come check out our nice parks and cafes, like the medieval-themed Wonderwood. (Also has mini golf next door).
Anonymous
I always recommend the Japanese garden and a hike (e.g. lower Macleay up to pittock mansion, or mt tabor) or if you have a car go to Tryon creek which is my favorite park in the city. Multnomah falls is a tourist to-do but the parking is terrible on the weekends. with a car I’d definitely drive out to the gorge – try the Portland Women’s Forum State Scenic Viewpoint and vista house outlooks. sugar pine drive in for food on the way there/back. a hike at oxbow park if you like hikes on that same day trip out.
neighborhood-y stuff that is good in no particular order: Alberta st btw ne 8th and 30th (I like gumba pasta, Vivienne books + coffee + bakery, kulfi ice cream). nw 23rd has good shopping and food (artisserie, kens, Phuket cafe, Harlow, grassa, st jack, please Louise. st johns is adorable (Gracies apizza, sparrow bakery ocean rolls and breakfast sandwich), there’s the st johns bridge. food carts are a big thing – I take people to Prost and hinterland but some of the other ones are pretty mid. I love bakeries and my favorites are sparrow, keeper coffee, little t American baker, Lauretta jeans pies, coquina. DH loves Duality Brewing & Astral if you like beer. we have fantastic Thai food beyond typical Thai take out (Paadee, Phuket cafe). for sushi: bamboo sushi, blue fin tuna and sushi.
I would look for an airbnb in SE or NE near some hip neighborhoods where you can walk places for coffee/breakfast. If you want a hotel I recommend Northrup inn in nw or the Jupiter hotel in SE.
Anon
Mother Goose in downtown has a “one stop shop” set-up for lots of local artisans and hand-made goods. Pok Pok is really good for Thai. Try going to the Pendleton outlet in Washougal, WA (off the 14, along the river). The Bridge of the Gods is a nice little bridge (bring one dollar bills to pay the toll). Hood River is a nice day trip from Portland.
Senior Attorney
I was just there! I stayed at the Crowne Plaza, which isn’t super fancy but pretty centrally located and I was happy with it.
Thai Peacock is a nice restaurant and my veggie daughter found plenty to eat. Pink Rabbit Bar on NW 12th is a fabulous girly bar that is definitely worth a visit. Delicious cocktails and food with vegan options. Gravy for breakfast/brunch although you will have to wait in line on the weekend. It’s in the Mississippi neighborhood, which is fun for strolling and shopping. We did a ghost tour that I found on Viator and enjoyed it very much. The art museum is quite nice if you enjoy that sort of thing. There’s a Doc Martens store across the street from Powell’s — worth a stop for sure. If you are in the mood for a friendly gay dive bar with great vegan food options, try Crush Bar on Morrison. Creo Chocolate on Broadway is really cool and offers tours and classes.
Celestial Hill is a nice winery for a tasting. We are members and really enjoy it.
The Pearl District is great for walking and dining. There are two beautiful parks there. We ate at Verde Cocina en la Perla and they had lots of Mexican vegetarian options.
The Ritz Carlton Hotel just opened and the lobby bar looks amazing for a drink and a snack.
Anon
I used to stay at that Crowne for frequent work trips. Memories!
Senior Attorney
Post with recs in mod so check back.
Anti-Fanta
DO’NT GO! CRIME! DRUGS! HOMELES “PEOPLE” USING THE STREETS AS ANTIFA TOILETS!!!!!!
(Not my opinion, but surprised that some Hannity-loving ‘Rette hadn’t gone there.) :-)
Anon
Laughs in San Franciscan
Anon
When picking a flower girl, what do you think a good age is? My fiancé and I have started to talk about who we want in our wedding, and he would like his niece to be a flower girl. I think she would be so cute as a flower girl but am worried she is too young, but realized I don’t actually know what an appropriate age is. FWIW, the wedding will be about 75 people so not large, but not tiny.
Anon
Kindergarten is sort of the oldest I’d go. And old enough to be well potty trained (3 ish).
Anon
You can do a “junior bridesmaid” for elementary school aged girls.
Anon
You can do a “junior bridesmaid” for elementary school aged girls.
Anon
Really? I had a four year old and an eight year old, and I think that was fine. I would think that “junior bridesmaids” start around age 10.
Anon
Yeah, to me junior bridesmaid is 9-10 minimum. 3-8 is flower girl age.
Anon
Very much this. Junior bridesmaids in early elementary school seems unnecessary. wait until older elementary for that.
Anonymous
I think I was around 7 when I was flower girl at my cousin’s wedding. I remember feeling really special getting ready with the bridesmaids, like I was all grown up.
Anon
At least 3-4 if you want them to actually walk down the aisle alone. Younger kids could potentially do it with an adult.
anon
There can be a pretty big range.
Cat
4-6. Old enough to be able to walk down the aisle without fuss, young enough that you’re not edging towards tween. Toddlers are too unpredictable.
Anon
I’m surprised by how young everyone is saying as the oldest age! I was a flower girl in my half-sister’s wedding when I had just turned 8.
Anon
+1. I think up to like age 10 is totally fine tbh. I was also a flower girl in my cousin’s wedding when I was 8 or 9. I would not go younger than 4 personally, unless it is the couple’s child.
Anonymous
+2. Our 9-year-old niece was our flower girl and our 12-year-old nephew was our ringbearer because they were the kids closest to us and we wanted them in our wedding. They wore age-appropriate outfits–a proper suit for the 12-year-old, not short pants. Similarly, my husband was the ringbearer in his brother’s wedding when he was 12.
Anon
I think 3-8. Maybe 2 if she has a slightly-older co-flower girl to show her where to walk or can walk down with a bridesmaid. I adore children in weddings and am Team The More the Merrier.
Anon
+1
Peloton
3-6 is what I see at most weddings, unless the flower girl is the child of the people getting married. Then below 3 is also in play (with an adult to help out).
Peloton
I see other people saying older ages, and I think that’s great too! We seem to be just slotting the next niece or little cousin into the wedding as they happen, and in my (large!) family, right now, that’s the age range we seem to be using.
Anon
Like 3-10
Anon
Thanks everyone. This is very helpful. Niece will be just over 3 at the time of the wedding, so it seems like it might work. And maybe walking down the aisle with my future SIL could be our backup idea (I wouldn’t mind that, and the only other little girls we would consider are my cousin’s three daughters. I wouldn’t want to pick just one of them and four flower girls seems like a lot to me)
Cat
FWIW, it’s also ok to just… not have a flower girl, and let the kids have fun being dressed up at a party without having to be patient for pictures, etc.
Anonymous
My SIL had four flower girls because there were four nieces and honestly, it was absolutely darling. Just go with what you want to do!
Anon
I think 1 flower girl, 4 flower girls, or none are all equally valid choices. Do whatever you want / include what kids you want to include / don’t include kids you don’t want to include out of obligation.
Senior Attorney
I think a posse of flower girls would be adorable.
Anonymous
Like a bouquet of flowers!
Anon
My daughter’s kindergarten teacher had every girl in their class as a flower girl. It was adorable. The girls were all told to wear white or pastel dresses. Didn’t Princess Diana have a bevy of FGs also? Have however many you want, but if you want all 4, do it. What sort of curmudgeon would come to a wedding and say, “That’s too many flower girls”? Someone you don’t want there anyway.
Anon
I had our 3 nieces and 4 nephews (ages 5-10) as the “bubble brigade” and it was adorable. They all marched down together with bubble guns and we’re so proud of themselves. 4 flower girls sounds great!
Anon
Four is a great number – the three daughters can show your niece the way and walk together. I had four in my wedding and it was nice.
Anon
I was 7 as a flower girl for my one cousin and I loved it – felt very special getting to wear my pretty dress, having a special job, and getting my hair done with the bride and her bridesmaids.
At 11 I was a junior bridesmaid for another cousin and really loved that too. I got to ride in the limo and get ready with the bridal party and it felt so grown up.
Then at 15 I was a normal bridesmaid for another cousin, where I partially felt cool being with the adults and partially felt awkward about it – not young enough to be cooed over but not old enough to fit in with them.
An.On.
Any age could do it as long as you’re prepared for things to go wrong and be able to laugh about it instead of getting mad. Any younger than 3 and it’s a given that an adult will have to go with them, and it’s probably still iffy for a few years after that.
Seventh Sister
I love it when the flower girls go rogue – placing a single petal in the center of the aisle every 2 feet, tipping the basket at the end so there is a pile of flower petals at the front of the sanctuary, proudly marching down the aisle spreading a perfect carpet of flowers then standing next to the bridesmaids even though the plan was to go and sit with her mom. But that’s just me.
Rogue flower girls
Me too :) I laughed at your comment, thanks!
Anon
The cutest flower girl moment at a wedding I attended was one where mom was a bridesmaid. The flower girl was to walk down the aisle ahead of the bride. Her father brought her to the foot of the aisle and said “go to mommy” upon which she said “NO” and everyone laughed. She did this about three more times and then suddenly ran into her mother’s borderline desperate outstretched arms. It was so funny and sweet and made the bride’s subsequent entrance extra special.
Senior Attorney
Years ago I was Maid of Honor and there was great angst about whether the two-year-old flower girl would behave herself. She was assigned to stand beside me during the ceremony so I could keep her under control if necessary. Halfway through the ceremony she started tugging on my skirt, ignoring my attempts to make her stop. Finally I leaned down and hissed “what???” She looked up and stage-whispered, loud enough for all to hear, “I’m being VERY GOOD, aren’t I?” Comedy gold.
Anon
We had landscaping installed a couple of years back. The landscapers moved around some gutter parts and left some of them on our porch. I asked the landscapers what to do about the gutter pieces they left on the porch and they said they were unnecessary and we could trash or donate them.
We recently discovered wet carpets in our basement and when we had someone out they found black mold, so the water has been here for a while. The guy who came out today said we’re missing a gutter extension and that caused water to pool near our house and drain into the basement. I believe the relevant gutter piece is one of the things that was removed by the landscapers since DH & I have never touched them. Total damage is estimated at $4k and mold isn’t covered by our insurance (and our deductible is bigger anyway) so we have to pay out of pocket.
It isn’t worth trying to get a lawyer and go after the landscaping company, right? It seems like it would be very hard to prove.
But arggghhhh. This landscaping company has been one problem after another. They planted tons of things that didn’t grow because the sun/water conditions weren’t right, so now the landscaped area is extremely patchy with big plants next to gaping holes and looks ridiculous. Which is obviously a much more minor issue than this, but still… the whole reason we hired landscapers was because they were supposed to be knowledgeable about this stuff!
Cerulean
I’m sorry, that really sucks! Water inside the house is stressful and such a pain to deal with. But going forward, I never ever trust tradesmen’s opinions about things outside their specific area of expertise. Landscapers especially seem run the gamut from “can do basic lawn services and plant your hydrangeas “ to $$$ companies that offer soup-to-nuts property transformation that can involve things like gutters and hardscaping. Most of them are in the first group.
Cerulean
And I suspect it wouldn’t be worthwhile to get a lawyer involved for that amount, especially since a few years have passed.
Anonymous
arrrgh that really sucks. maybe just a bad review if they’re still in business?
Anon
There’s no way you can prove that something they did a few years ago is causing your current problem, so I wouldn’t bother reaching out to them or trying to lawyer up.
Anon
Well you could probably easily prove (by putting it back) that the removed gutter extension was the cause of the water infiltration, but several years down the road I think it’s on OP as the homeowner to actively notice they had a leak. Maybe if they caught it after the first big deluge that would be different?
Anon
Not necessarily, the gutters may help but intrusion happens with dry rot and other structural issues.
OP
I do hear you, but fwiw the damage was invisible until recently. The guy said it was probably just damp under the floor until recent heavy rainfall made it wet enough it soaked up through the carpets. We use the room regularly and definitely would have noticed wet carpets!
anon a mouse
Honestly that makes it less likely that it was solely attributed to the gutters… unless you haven’t had any heavy rains in the last few years? Gutters may have contributed to the problem, but I think you’re out of luck here. Sorry.
Anon
I think landscaping is just buyer beware as you’ve learned!
Anon
I’d call the contractor and tell them what happened. Give them a chance to make it right.
If not, I’d go ham on leaving honest reviews online.
Anti-Fanta
Construction attorney here. I’m sorry this happened to you.
Your predicament raises many interesting legal issues of causation, latent damage, etc.
As you’ve adeptly concluded, it’s probably not worth it for the amount of damage involved.
You’d really need an expert to make a causal link between what the landscaper did and your damaged property. I’ll guess that this was an oral contract that wouldn’t allow you to recover fees or a bare-bones contract that doesn’t mention them. Either way, you’d be stuck paying legal fees, and the amount of damage is modest and would probably be below the small claims threshold in most states, which would mean that you can’t have an attorney formally represent you. The few hundreds bucks you’d pay to have an attorney right a nasty gram is better spent on repairing the mess.
Anonymous
Does anyone else have a Ninja creami? Trying to play with mine — surprised by how much I love the protein ice cream with just milk, Optimum/Costco vanilla, and cheesecake jello. (300g/31g/4g). Wanted to try a strawberry ice cream with frozen strawberries, but pureed instead of chopped… whoops. We’ll see how it goes. Tried the one I made with hemp hearts today; I thought I was adding fiber but I guess not.
protein ice cream
You might check out theflexibledietinglifestyle account on Instagram. Zach Rocheleau is constantly posting variations on protein ice cream and I think he has the Ninja.
ABanon
Any recommendations for favorite lip balms with sunscreen? My favorites have been reformulated without sunscreen for some reason or discontinued. Prefer it without much flavor/scent and in a tube. Interested in both everyday and sport ones.
Anon
Aquaphor.
Anonymous
There is no sunscreen in that. It’s basically cooking oil.
Another Anon
Nope–Aquaphor has a version with broad spectrum SPF 30.
Anon
I haven’t tried it yet, but I did order the supergoop SPF lip balm.
eh230
I bought and hate it. It has a taste and smell, and the texture is just awful. It was so bad I tossed it. I am still on the hunt too.
Anon
SAME!
Anon
Sun Bum SPF 30. I found it at Kroger.
Lydia
I like Neutrogena Revitalizing Lip Balm SPF 20 in plum or berry for a tinted lip (not super colorful — they also have a clear option I think). I also got the brush on block lip oil to keep in my car, since solid lip balm will melt in the summer. I actually like it, although I wish the coral were slightly plummier (and fig is a bit mauve-y). It has a light citrus/vanilla smell but not bad. The neutrogena one is close to unscented.
Lydia
neutrogena; https://www.neutrogena.com/products/revitalizing-lip-balm-spf-20/6800965.html
brush on block: https://brushonblock.com/products/sun-shine-spf-30-protective-lip-oil-1
Loofah
I just ordered the Joe Black Intense Therapy Lip Balm with SPF. It’s a little pricey per-tube, but I really like it. The consistency is more Aquaphor than Chapstick.
Snoozy
I use the one from Aesop – also a bit pricey, but has kept my lips unburnt in both Australian and Spanish summers recently.
Lip sunscreen suggestion
Blistex – the teal one. I’ve tried almost all of the ones suggested above and this is the only one that doesn’t have a gross feel/smell, in my opinion. Even the Sun Bum suggested above is too much for me, though I’ll use it in a pinch.
Anon
Sun Bum makes a good one.
Biden/Harris
This is very much a hypothetical question, since Harris is all but certain to be the new Dem nominee, but I’m curious:
Did Biden’s decision to run/not affect the end Dem ticket? I.e. Did his dropping out late actually benefit Harris?
If Biden had not ran for re-election at all, presumably Harris would have ran in the primary (and Biden would have endorsed her). Would she have won the nomination easily, like Biden did? Or would someone else pulled a lot of votes (Phillips? Someone else?)
Anon
Seems to me that Biden really stiffed the party. Anyone close to the inner workings?
OP
I would agree; Biden running and then dropping out essentially forced Dems to accept Harris as the nominee. He basically got to pick his own successor and made the primary meaningless. It just gives a sour taste to me that veers towards undemocratic…
Anon
I think she would have gotten slaughtered in a primary; that’s what happened in 2020. (She actually dropped out in 2019.)
Anon
There’s no way she would have won in a true primary, but I’m not sure whether there would have been enough pressure on enough of the top candidates like Whitmer, Newsom, Shapiro, Pritzker, etc. to not run against her that she would have beat out a somewhat weaker field.
Anon
Harris would not have won the nomination in the primary unless the other candidates were persuaded to drop out.
Anon
Yes, Biden dropping out absolutely benefited Harris.
Anonymous
hopefully the dems would have learned from the republicans’ mistakes in 2016 – if you flood the market only the loudest voices will prevail. i would have hoped a bunch of people threw their hats — whitmer, beto, buttigeg, shapiro, bashear, etc — and hopefully 2 or 3 would have risen to the top. we really need that, having a few different people each with like 25% of the initial vote — having 16 people with 2-8% of the initial vote helps no one and is just noise. i really hope that they can build their bench for a strong 2028 or 2032.
Anonymous
Yes, it helped Harris. But I don’t think it’s possible to know who would have won a primary. Some of the folks that feel popular and like good candidates now would never have survived a primary. Look at what happened to Kamala in 2019, or Ron DeSantis in 2023. I do know some senior Democratic strategists and the one thing that they say all the time is that no one has any idea how hard it is to run for president. There is no perfect candidate. And we never even got far enough with a primary in 2023 to know who would have won the nomination and whether it would have been easy or hard. The governors all look great right now, but they don’t have any foreign policy experience and folks like Josh Shapiro haven’t been in office all that long. Newsom would probably have run, but he went to the French Laundry in a pandemic. Etc. You just don’t know how these things would have happened.
Anon
I’m so sick of people acting like the French Laundry thing actually matters. Trump literally raped women and tried to foment insurrection and obstruct the transfer of power. These things are not on the same wavelength.
Anon
Agree. But he is still viewed as an out of touch coastal elite regardless of that one incident. The real mystery is how Trump, an actual coastal elite in most ways, gets to campaign against that.
Anonymous
No one who is voting for Trump is criticizing anyone for eating out during the pandemic. They don’t care. Only the left cares about who did what during Covid.
Anonymous
Yeah, not to mention that Trump threw a mass spread event on the White House lawn, knowingly dodged COVID protocols to appear at the debate with an active infection (with his entourage also sitting unmasked in the audience), and had Secret Service agents drive him around on a break from COVID treatment at the hospital. If he’d been in charge, the French Laundry would have been fully open in April 2020. This needs to die.
Anon
And Biden has COVID right now, for heaven’s sake!
Anonymous
What on Earth does Biden having COVID right now have to do with any of that? Good grief. This board sure loves to slay him for basically anything.
Anecdata
The French Laundry thing doesn’t register with me anymore, seems like a non issue – but to me at it’s core it (and Nancy Pelosi’s haircut, and all the rest) were never about “who handled covid responsibly”. Liberal leaders calling for necessary but very painful restrictions and not following them themselves is different from Trump being all “I’m not gonna do this and you shouldn’t have to either”.
AIMS
I don’t think Newsom would have done well. The French Laundry incident is only one part of it. Having been married to Don Jr’s current GF is part of it too. Literally no one can explain that one. It would all just have a feel of “pox on both your houses, both parties are full of sh*t”.
And I think Kamala could have done very well in a full primary. She can take credit for all the accomplishments and asserted her independence where needed. No one else has been vetted this way and it’s all total speculation.
Runcible Spoon
Nobody runs against the incumbent, which is what happened here. The unusual move was for the incumbent to drop out, which he did here, too. Remember, VP Kamala Harris was already also on the ticket, so when voters voted for Joe Biden, they were also voting for Kamala Harris at the same time. And nobody had been officially nominated by the Democratic Party yet. Regardless of how we got here, the choice now is between King Donald and President Harris, between someone who wants to take away our liberty, and someone who will fight for the people’s liberty, between a convicted felon who is old and sleepy, and a former prosecutor who is much younger and energetic, between a seasoned elected official who has policy experience, and a candidate who squeaked into office just once who — by all accounts of his former senior staffers — is hopelessly incapable of responsibly running the ship of state.
Anon
If Biden were resigning, this would all make sense to me. He’s just dropping out though. I understand that if the president can’t be president, the VP takes over. I wasn’t aware that’s how it worked for a campaign.
Runcible Spoon
I guess that’s how its working for this campaign. And no need to resign from the presidency. He’s presidenting very well! The issue, as I understand it, was deep concern about another four years (as opposed to another six months, especially without the added strain and burden of running for re-election). Instead of doing two jobs (campaign and president), he is now free to simply president, and continue the great run he’s had.
Anon
I don’t think he’s presidenting today.
txatty
I don’t think she would have won in an open primary, but I also think it would have been ugly. There has already been recriminations today/yesterday from people when they see Dems (especially white women) questioning VP Harris so I think a months/year long process would have been bad for the party
Anon
This is where I land.
Anonymous
I’m really upset that we were robbed of a primary and I have a feeling that that was the whole point. If it wasn’t trump or someone equally as deranged on the opposite side, I’d either stay home or vote R this year. I’m seriously considering leaving the party over this.
Anon
I kind of hope that MAGA sans Trump destroys the Republicans, the Democrats become the new right wing party, and we get a party left of the Democrats going forward (no, not extreme leftists, just like the ordinary political spectrum of a comfortable European country).
Anon
Gosh I don’t think so – seems a lot more likely that Biden and his inner circle thought they could push him through this, and but-for the debate performance that would have happened. After that, his ills and fundraising cratered and that’s what caused him to finally drop out. There are plenty of reasons to be angry at the Democratic Party and Biden and his team for putting us in this situation. But the idea that this was all an elaborate Dem party conspiracy to avoid a primary is far-fetched.
Anon
I think the reason it feels this way is that so many people predicted this exact turn of events beforehand? As long as it helps them win, so be it. Also, I honestly think the debate performance wasn’t a surprise to anyone because they didn’t call an ambulance over what could have been a stroke if it weren’t normal by that point.
Anonymous
Please. Trump has a word salad come out of his mouth virtually every rally and no one references stroke.
So over the Biden hate. Dude has a strong record and is basically cut off at the knees and that still isn’t good enough for the haters.
AIMS
+1. This view seems a bit childish to me. Age is one of those things that doesn’t matter until it does and that often happens overnight. I had a boss that was quite old and sharper than most people for most of the time we worked together and he was fantastic until one day he was falling asleep in meetings and I was doing way more of his work than I was ever supposed to be and eventually just literally covering up for all the crazy until he finally left in a way that was manageable. I suspect the same thing was the case here. Life happens this way sometimes.
Anon
Even if you don’t like Bernie Sanders at all, I think the way the DNC sidelined him despite support from voters showed long ago how much they care about voter input in the primaries.
Anon
Stop with the conspiracy theories. We all saw what happened at the debate. That was certainly not scripted. They thought he could do it. But he couldn’t, and here we are.
Anon
It was also clearly not a surprise, so no, they didn’t think he could do it. But they sent him out there anyway.
Anecdata
I think they figured he *could* do it, like maybe there was a 60% chance he’d make it through the election. If he’d sounded as with-it at the debate as he did on the NBC interview, he would have sounded oldish and weaker than Trump etc but to a degree that voters already knew – strategists probably figured it was already priced in to his polling. But the debate fell on one of bad days.
Anon
That I can see, that it was more of a coin flip kind of thing. I hope it all works out now!
AIMS
Or they thought the same Biden that showed up at the NATO press conference would show up and people would say yeah, he looks creaky and old but he’s fine.
ToS
Personally, I think that with this shift, now Trump really suffers in comparison, and he is sealed in now that the Republican convention is over. The timing could be I hope Trump and Harris debate, with the same ground rules as the earlier debate.
Anon
For those in swing states, how do the never-trump Republicans and moderate Dems you know feel about Kamala? Will they vote for her and/or turn out for her? Similarly, if any of you have peers who were in the “I can’t vote for Joe because of Gaza” leftist camp, do you think they’d be more amenable to coming back into the party for Kamala?
I’m in the Bay Area and my report would be that all the Democrats, centrists, never-trump former Republicans, and progressives I know will turn out for literally any candidate at this point. But I know that may be different elsewhere.
Anon
I’m in PA, from my read:
– Moderate Dems will absolutely vote for her. They’ll vote for anyone who isn’t Trump. Some like her, some don’t.
– Never Trump Republicans: Were absolutely not going to vote Biden, but are very likely to not for for Harris either. Likely won’t vote or will vote 3rd party. Biden got a lot of blame for the economy from this crowd, and I think Harris is too tied to him in their mind. Some who have gone from Never Trump Republicans to Independents will probably for for her, but the ones who still identify as R won’t.
– Leftists were absolutely not going to vote for Biden and they absolutely won’t vote for her – they think her work as a prosecutor makes her just as bad if not worse than a cop, and they’re all ACAB.
Peloton
I have family that fits into the never Trump Republican category. I think they will either vote for her or not vote at all. They are not enthusiastic about her (and I think they would have been enthusiastic about Whitmer—old school Republicans sure love someone with gubernatorial experience).
Runcible Spoon
What if VP Harris selects as her running mate a white guy governor, like Roy Cooper of North Carolina or Andy Beshear of Kentucky? Will that be sufficient adult supervision and gubernatorial experience in the room for them?
Peloton
It’s not adult supervision; they don’t think she has a proven track record of “she owned this project start to finish” accomplishments in her time as VP and senator. One of the relatives who was chattering about this at dinner is a lawyer, and he said something like “this is why I don’t like voting for lawyers; they talk about getting something done every day but never actually manage to do it.” He’s high on Whitmer but didn’t mention the other governor options (other than hating Newsom).
Runcible Spoon
Does he mean Gretchen Whitmer, the lawyer? It’s not like VP Harris has ONLY been a lawyer; she was elected Attorney General (admittedly a lawyer job, but really more of governing policy-making job), and elected Senator, and — don’t forget — elected Vice President. Seems like sufficient experience, but others may disagree and feel that a one-term president who has since been convicted and found liable of breathtaking offenses trumps (ha-ha) a seasoned elected official. We have the benefit and luxury of not having to wonder what a second Trump administration would be like.
Runcible Spoon
Also, look at all that the Biden administration has accomplished — and President Biden is a lawyer, too. So was Barack Obama, etc. So there’s some other obstacle at work here with your relative, apparently.
Peloton
I mean, it’s his opinion, not mine—but he doesn’t think Harris actually did anything worthwhile as a Senator or VP, and he thinks Whitmer did. It’s not enough to just hold the office—you have to do something significant while in it.
I actually used the Obama example as a counterpoint, and he claimed Obama “did more with his opportunities” pre-Presidency than Harris will have. I don’t buy that, but that’s his view.
Anon
I started following a lot of POC/black accounts in 2020-2022, most of which have been vocally displeased with Biden for handling of Gaza. I would say 80% are still pretty displeased with Kamala, with a lot of signaling that they will still vote third party. There is a bit of preference to her over Biden among this group, and a bit of “hold my nose and bring myself to vote for her” sentiment, but not enough to feel comforting. Hopefully she is able to turn the tide in 3 months
Anon
A friend of a friend is very active in our local socialist scene and per instagram, they are 100% NOT voting for Harris.
Anon
Because voting for Trump instead is so helpful for Gaza? Make it make sense.
Anon
right this is what I don’t get! The guy who said Netanyahu should “finish the job”?!?!
Anon
It doesn’t. I feel pretty far left until I talk with or see stuff posted by the leftists I know. They act like, as a liberal, I am a fascist but yet the cognitive dissonance of essentially helping Trump get elected so as to not vote for Biden or Harris because of a single issue, that Trump will definitely have worse outcomes for, is asinine.
anon
Yeah, I can’t make sense of this, either.
Anon
Ok I know this isn’t a historically accurate analogy but it’s all I can come up with — my understanding is it’s kind of like if Hitler and Stalin were the candidates. Both are horrid and both will be bad for you/the issues you care about, so you can’t in good conscience vote for either. I know some of us are thinking “how could you possibly think Harris/Biden are equivalent to Trump,” but when I make a good faith effort to try to understand the resistance, that’s where I land
Anon
Ironic analogy since a lot of the same people are hopeless tankies!
There is a lot of propaganda in certain spaces online discouraging voting or encouraging the idea that you’re responsible for everything a candidate you voted for does, and I think it just works. I think some people are also accelerationists even if they deny it.
Anon
No, this is ludicrous. Biden just stepped down rather than clinging to power, FFS.
PLB
THIS PART! I just…. I can’t.
Seventh Sister
Yeah, I don’t think electing the guy who adores dictators and would probably use nukes if given the chance is going to stop what’s happening in Gaza.
Anon
Oh you have black friends? Tell us more.
Anon
My never Trump Republican relatives are not planning on voting – they can’t stand her (and couldn’t stand Biden) but they also can’t stand Trump. If Johnson or some other Libertarian runs again they’ll probably throw their votes that way.
Anon
I don’t personally know any Republicans who would vote for Harris. FWIW, most of the Republicans I know who claimed to be never-Trump in the past are coming around or have come around to voting for him. This is a small sample size of course.
Anon
Then they were actually not Never Trump. They were just embarrassed to say they would vote for him.
Anon
Agree with the slow shift towards Trump. I think it is part “nothing so truly terrible happened” in his first term, partly a lack of alternatives
Among don’t-like-Trump, mostly religious, single issue abortion voters, I’d say people I know are about a 50/50 split between “hold nose; vote Trump” and 3rd party. Harris doesn’t move the needle much, they weren’t going to vote for her or Biden, and just don’t know much about her. She seems more prochoice than Biden, and the more she makes it a campaign issue – particularly if she’s taking about using federal power to get somewhere closer to where Roe is – that would push people more towards Trump
Honestly the thing that did seem to move the needle was Vance – he’s perceived as a sellout/sold his soul for politics in a really visceral way, and kind of embodies the rapidly disintegrating relationship between pro life political groups and the GOP
Anon
+1
Anonymous
i’m in OH and i will vote for a ham sandwich instead of trump. i gave money to kamala last night to help the record-breaking donations, but don’t really know or care about her. i’m not typical Ohioan, but all of the Dems and no-more-Trump-ers are of that mindset. it’s why i thought all the calls for biden to step down were ridiculous; it isn’t about the elected official at this point, it’s just about keeping democracy running.
Anon
I think her only hope is if more, traditionally disenfranchised people go to the polls (as in 2020). She is not going to bring in many new votes from either the repubs or liberal dems. She needs to get young people and city-dwellers in those swing states to care enough to vote.
Anon
Ugh the far left in the party need to fall. in. line. or we’re going to have another 2016.
Fine if she’s not their favorite candidate, she’s not mine either, but I’ll happily support the Dem nominee to keep Trump and MAGA out of office.
If you are a leftist and don’t love her take on XYZ, I can guarantee you its still 100x better than Trump’s or Vance’s take on the same topic.
Don’t cut off the nose to spite the face here, people!
Anon
I am so incredibly frustrated with my sanctimonious leftist friends. I don’t understand how they don’t realize they are just helping Trump win.
Anon
Especially when women face the national emergency of lost abortion rights NOW – not hypothetical.
Anonymous
YESSSSSS hold your noses and f’ing vote
Senior Attorney
Same! Vote Blue no matter who!
Anon
Just like in 2020, I’m not voting for the democratic nominee. I’m voting against Trump. Id vote for almost anyone running against him.
Anon
I was heartened that AOC came out today with a clear endorsement of Kamala and that it’s time to get this done, basically, even though like a week ago she was pushing for Biden to stay in. I hope her massive following recognizes the pragmatism in her position and can do the same.
Anonymous
I pretty much use AOC as a litmus test — if she’s for something, I’m against it.
Anon
I can’t tell if this means you’re for Harris or against her!
Anon
I’m a Dem in NC from a conservative family. They hate Trump, but will 100% not vote for any Democrat ever because they are single-issue voters when it comes to abortion. It drives me insane.
Anonymous
Half my family is centrist/never Trump republicans, and we talked this weekend about how much they hate Harris but only had vague reasons for why. I think some (the women) will vote for her, some will sit out, and a few might vote Trump.
Runcible Spoon
We know why they only had vague reasons for why.
Anonymous
I’ve started calling out the vague reasons. I have no Fs left to give at this point. A spade is a spade.
Anon
I’m sure a spade being a spade is the issue here.
Anon
Swing state never Trump Republicans that I know will not be voting for any Democrat for president. Either they will vote for Trump (unfortunately Trump has won over a lot of Republicans who previously despised him), or they will not cast a vote.
The Bernie bro progressives I know are all planning to vote for Harris. The leftists left of them are not more amenable, no.
Anonymous
My BF is “not Trump never Biden” and the only person he dislikes more than Biden is Harris. He probably won’t vote, and he usually doesn’t. I land in the “Israel behaves terribly, lies constantly, is in many ways a threat to our national security, and is now actively committing a genocide and we should not be sending them another dime or another bomb” camp but there is no viable candidate who would satisfy me on that issue and I probably disagree on most other issues with the non-viable ones, so I will vote Dem and hope the rest of the world will do that work for us since the US is captured on that issue.
Anon
Why is he never Biden? Just out of curiosity.
Anonymous
His algorithm. All he’s been seeing for three years is reels of Biden as a doddering old fool who can’t finish a sentence. It might be accurate now, but it started when much of that was just Biden stuttering. Like too many others, he likes the “strongman” appearance for his president. With Harris, all he sees is her speaking in short words and short sentences like she’s talking to preschoolers, saying nonsense about coconut trees, and cackling.
Anon
I will say that neither Biden nor Harris (nor Trump FWIW) have command presence. While I personally rank policy and other things above command presence when ranking attributes I care about in my president, I a) still think command presence matters and b) realize that many people don’t get into the intricacies of policy and therefore are more likely to be swayed by things like command presence.
Anon
So why is he Never Harris then? Hmmm wonder why. She’s certainly not doddering. Too uppity for him?
How you can sleep with someone like that I will never understand.
Anonymous
The answer to your initial question lies in the posts immediately above.
As to your second, I don’t need you to understand, but if you tried it, you probably would.
Anon
Elections are really about turnout. Dems don’t need to persuade any new people, they just need to turn out the people who support them. There’s been a huge boost in energy and enthusiasm in the last 24 hours and that always correlates with turnout. If we can keep up this level of excitement until November I’ll be feeling good about it.
Anon
+1 The announcement has certainly shifted attention/momentum to the Dems right now. Hope they can hold it!
Anon
I only know one person I can ask who might fall into that category and they didn’t cast a vote for prez in 2020 and are unlikely to do so this year.
Anon
I’m curious the impact on the black vote. Does having her leading the ticket scramble things in Georgia, for example? Would black voters who’d have otherwise stayed home now vote? If that’s the case, there may be enough votes to make a real difference. That coupled with an affable midwestern white guy VP (I like Walz from MN) might pull in some of the saner rural folks who hate Trump’s style. I think it’s winnable.
Anonymous
I think Harris is less popular than Biden among Black voters.
Anon
Biden has always been really, really popular with Black voters. They saved him in the 2020 primary. I’m not entirely sure why he has such high levels of support with this community (maybe related to being Obama’s VP) but there’s really no evidence Kamala brings in more Black voters.
I think the big discrepancy between them is going to be young vs old. I see way more enthusiasm for Kamala among people under 30… maybe even people under 50.
Alaska trip
Does anyone have Seward Alaska recommendations (things to do, where to eat, etc.). I already have sea kayaking and glacier trips lined up. I still need to find 3 days of accommodations (last minute trip). Have one day left to fill with activities. Will be traveling solo. Any recommendations welcome!
Anon
When are you going? You’d better look for accommodations ASAP if you want to find anything. Resurrect Art and Coffee is a great little coffee shop. Just walking around the harbor and downtown area is really nice. You’ll probably see sea otters from the shore. Definitely go to the Alaska SeaLife Center.
Anonymous
I stayed at hotel Edgewater. It was basic but nice enough and the view was amazing. There was a bald eagle sitting outside our balcony most evenings. They help you figure out parking, too, which is important as Seward has very little street parking.
We did a glacier hike (on the glacier with crampons!) through Exit Glacier guides. The website makes it seem like it’s crazy hard but it wasn’t that bad. The national park boat tour is a must. We did the option with dinner on fox island. Dinner was underwhelming but the island was lovely, it would’ve been nice to spend more time there.
Essential in Texas
Can you just go back to Anchorage? Or Alyeska?
Anonymous
Seward is way better than Anchorage.
Anon
+1 nothing against Anchorage, which is a perfectly fine city, but Seward has spectacular wildlife and scenery and is what people think of when they picture Alaska, and it’s baffling to me that someone would suggest leaving Seward and going to Anchorage.
Anon
Question for those of you who user Rover: do you tip? I used the service for the first time, and I didn’t realize I’d be prompted for a tip after the service was over. Tipping seems a little over the top but I will do it if customary.
Anonymous
I typically don’t, because I am paying so much anyway, unless they do something truly above and beyond (one bathed my whole dog after getting muddy paws while on a walk).
Anon
I don’t.
Anon
I was at a party over the weekend where everyone for the most part worked in tech (we are in Silicon Valley / SF). I have noticed a trend where basically the majority of the younger males in tech I know have leap-frogged from identifying as Democrats to now seeming to be far-right. Their ideal candidates are Vivek Ramaswamy or JD Vance, and though they say they won’t vote for Trump, I think they privately will since they call his platform ‘moderate’ and ‘generally reasonable.’ This is astounding to me. A big part of it seems to be the Elon Musk, David Sachs radicalization effort. They follow these guys on Twitter and idolize them, and are now thinking Trump and the far right is the way to go. They also all probably identified with many aspects of the platform beforehand, but felt like there was no permission structure to openly agree with it prior to Musk being so vocally MAGA.
Anyway, it’s disturbing to me. I think of Trump as far-far-right, but now it seems like it’s become normalized to support him within highly-educated, extremely affluent circles in coastal cities.
Anonymous
“I think of Trump as far-far-right, but now it seems like it’s become normalized to support him within highly-educated, extremely affluent, male circles in coastal cities.”
There, I fixed it.
Anon
Not true — in Silicon Valley there are TONS of women who support him.
Anon
+2, it is not just men. I know plenty of moderate Republican women who are planning to vote for Trump this go-round.
Anonymous
nazis and fascists are not just men. Plenty of women who are reprehensible as well. And let’s not call anyone who is planning on voting for Trump “moderate”.
Anon
It’s not “coastal cities” in general, it’s the Silicon Valley/SF tech scene specifically. I know highly educated, socially liberal women (both white and WOC) in SV tech who voted for Hilary in 2016 and Biden in 2020 and thought Trump would be roughly equivalent to the end of the world and now they’re voting for him. Group think is a crazy thing. I mean it doesn’t matter, CA is blue no matter what, but yeah… it’s absolutely nuts to me. I live in a state Trump won by nearly 20 points and don’t think I know as many Trump voters as my friends in Silicon Valley do.
Anon
Any clue as to why your friends have shifted too? Is it the Elon Musk and tech billionaires hopping on the train?
Anon
My close friends there are still very much Democrats and were unenthusiastically voting for Biden and are much more enthusiastically voting for Harris.
But among people I know who’ve recently decided to vote for Trump, I think it’s a lot of what the big VC guys are saying. They are rich, they want tax cuts, they think Trump wasn’t as bad as advertised (how they square January 6 with this I don’t know), they don’t give two $hits about climate change, they don’t like illegal immigration. They are all pro choice but since it won’t personally affect them they don’t really care about other women losing the right to choose. A lot of them work in VC or start-ups and I think there’s an element of trying to suck up to their tech bro bosses. Ugh.
Anon
I’m in this scene in SF/SV and am seeing a more nuanced take. Everyone I know is still voting for whoever the democrats run but wasn’t worked up that Trump is the end of the world. We’ve seen that show before, it wasn’t great but it wasn’t as bad as predicted. So there’s less handwringing. I was also at a party over the weekend where people moved from apathy about Biden to excitement about Harris.
Anon
People definitely don’t seem to be caught up on how Trump has changed since his last term though. There are plans for eliminating the obstructions that held him back last time around.
Anon
To be intelligent and just disregard the effect of Trump’s Supreme Court as being not too bad is just…… shocking.
Lets just call it what it is. It all comes down to money.
Anon
I was just discussing this with a friend but is Trump even better financially if you’re not a billionaire or, like, hundred millionaire? I didn’t think he was going to be great for the upper middle class. My 401k has been amazing under Biden. (Not that that’s why I’m voting for him – I would no matter what.)
Anon
Yes, it does come down to money. And the damage has been done. Also, the SC isn’t terrible if you’re rich and wanting less regulation as you start a business. You can afford to get an abortion somewhere.
Anonymous
Have these people not heard of Project 2025?
Anon
My friends (Dem-voting) in Silicon Valley say that people there aren’t worried about Project 2025 because it’s never going to impact them personally. For example, they’re wealthy and can travel for abortion access if necessary, etc. And they have “blue state privilege” since CA is never in a million years going to ban abortion. I don’t think these people would be anywhere near as eager to vote for Republican state leadership, which is sort of interesting. They like R president for the $$$ and D governor for the civil liberties.
Anon
I’ve always heard of tech is being a very sexist industry. No first-hand experience, but some of the stories I hear from friends are shocking to me and I’ve spent 8 years in biglaw. It doesn’t surprise me that those types of guys are supporting Trump. And I think it has just become a lot more acceptable to say that you are voting for Trump then it was four or eight years ago
Loofah
Yeah these guys love money and see women as objects, not full humans, so it tracks.
Anon
99% of them are addicted to p*rn too. They definitely don’t view women as human.
Anon
The Elon, Huberman, Rogan loving tech bros are the absolute worst.
Anon
This is what happens when STEM is prioritized above all else in K12, university computer science/ECE degrees become trade schools for larval tech-bros rather than a place to get a liberal arts education, and companies’ hiring practices favor the types of candidates who got that sort of vocational computer science education.
They lack context and critical thinking skills to really understand the world around them.
Signed,
Person with graduate degrees in a fine arts discipline and computer science who is thankful to no longer work with these guys
Anonymous
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzpAcdxBP0
Anonymous
It’s really easy to vote for a sociopath when you have enough money to put the undesirables in the firing line.
Roxie
Yes. Modern men are very broken and this is one other example.
Truly I hope they find a way to fix themselves but I think it will take generations…
Anonymous
can anyone speak to the difference between Chantecaille’s FutureSkin and something like the BareMinerals Complexion Rescue? I read a bunch of reviews after the discussion the other day and it sounds like just a very lightweight, barely noticeable thing?
Anon
I hated the Bare Minerals product. It looked good when I put it on, for about an hour maybe, then it sank into my pores. Then I tried it with their recommended primer. It sunk into pores less that way but became extremely patchy.
Whichever way you lean, make sure you give it a good trial before spending your hard earned money on it.
The two products I absolutely love that never do that to me are Dr Jart Premium BB cream, and Shiseido Revitalessence foundation. Both are gorgeous. I apply one pump to the face and spread it with a dense brush. Very subtle coverage. (Please note I am not relying on either for sun protection given the small amount I use.)
NaoNao
I own the FutureSkin and it’s incredible. Bare Minerals I have found breaks me out, and is too peachy and warm and overall sparkly for me (most products) plus it just doesn’t have that indefinable “something” that makes a product a HG. The FutureSkin was touted as the foundation used on Euphoria’s cast for a natural skin like finish and yep, I was influenced. It’s very lightweight but basically gives a “your skin but better/lit from within” vibe.
Anon
Something I’ve noticed is that a lot of people refer to VP Harris as “Kamala”. I’ve noticed that this is essentially never done with male politicians. Of course, Hillary Clinton was frequently referred to just as “Hillary”, which I presume was predominately done to differentiate her from her husband. But, now its started a trend where female politicians are referred to by their first name rather than their last name. While the sample size of female presidential candidates is small, both Clinton and Harris are referred to by their first names.
It’s something that’s just really, really stuck out to me in the last 24 or so hours. It just seems disrespectful to always refer to male politicians by their last names but Harris by her first name.
Heck, as people discuss who may be Harris’ running mate, those men are all referred to by their last names – Kelly, Shapiro, Beshear, and the like. While yes Buttigieg does still get called “Mayor Pete”, people are still including a title there and not usually just calling him “Pete”.
I also recognize that many on the right purposely mispronounce Kamala, so with everyone referring to her as Kamala I think it just opens the door for more instances in which she can be disrespected with purposeful mispronunciation.
Anyways, I’d urge people to consider how they refer to VP Harris and other female politicians and leaders and just do a quick check and make sure they’re not reinforcing any unequal treatment by doing so.
Anon
You make a great point. The one benefit of the doubt I would give people is that I think often the shorthand comes from the more unique/distinguishing part of their name. For most, this is the last name (lots of Andys out there, so Beschear is more useful as an identifier). With VP Harris, Kamala is more immediately identifying than Harris, which isn’t usually case.
Anon
True, and yet Obama is always called Obama. Admittedly, both parts of his name are identifying. But he still got the dignity of being referred to by his last name, like every other president and presidential candidate I can think of.
Anon
You don’t think Barack is also unique?
Anon
It’s not as easy to say.
Anon
Yeah, I sort of agree with this. Most male politicians have generic first names so you have to use their last name. Mark Kelly is always Mark Kelly in my head because Mark and Kelly are common names, and so are Roy and Cooper and Wes and Moore and Elizabeth and Warren. But Kamala, Hillary, and Bernie are distinctive first names with common last names, as is Mayor Pete (and nobody wants to try to spell his last name). Biden, Trump, Vance, Bashear, Newsom, Klobuchar, and Whitmer are all distinctive last names and more commonly used alone.
Anon
Add Beto to the first name group.
Anon
Agreed. I’ve been making extra effort to always say “VP Harris.”
Anon
Agreed. I always say Harris. And it think it’s very clear from context who we are talking about, even if there are other Harris politicians (although I can’t think of any now)
Anon
I say first name last name, so Kamala Harris. Using a first name isn’t something that sticks out to me as problematic or disrespectful, but it’s an interesting difference that I’ll probably notice going forward.
OP
Its one of those things that if its done to both genders, is not disrespectful. But, since its primarily done to women in politics but not men it deserves a second look. It feels very “othering” to me since it primarily happens to women in this scenario.
I think it is disrespectful because generally people in positions of authority are referred to by last names only or by first + last names. I don’t know about you, but when I think back to my school principal, coaches, someone high up where I work, world leaders, military leaders, and other positions of authority – they’re almost always referred to by their last name. So you’re undermining her authority by calling her “Kamala” instead of “Harris” or “VP Harris”.
First name also feels very “pink collar” to me – like you probably refer to your VP or CEO by a last name but their admin by their first name. It also feels casual (which can be disrespectful), and almost condescending to refer to female politicians by their first names but male ones by their last names.
Also – yes Harris is a common enough last name and Kamala is distinctive. However, in the context of which she is being discussed, she is the only Harris and it is easy to pick up on the fact that people are discussing VP Harris. So needing to use Kamala to differentiate between other Harris’ is nonsense. There was no one involved in politics with either part of Barack Obama’s name and yet he is always referred to as Obama.
Anon
I think focusing on things like this is how democrats lose the room. I’m spending zero energy worrying about whether Kamala is called Kamala or Harris. This distracts from real issues and makes democrats seem focused on micro aggressions, key part of that word being micro.
Peloton
+1
Anon
Sure, if it’s the only thing you ever talk about, but making one post here and saying “Harris” when you speak is hardly a single-minded focus.
Anon
Right – just make the change and refer to her as Harris without making a deal about it. No need to lecture or make it a big deal. But, make the change. And then go focus on the issues that are important.
OP
I mean I’m not going to correct someone or call them out for calling her Kamala instead of Harris, I just am urging people who are already supporting her to use the same terminology for her as they did for Biden.
Yes, if Dems made a big deal about this then we’d be losing the room. I’m not saying to do that.
But, if we all subtly start calling her Harris instead of Kamala then it just reinforces with everyone, Dems and non-Dems, that she’s on equal footing with Trump, Biden, and the like.
I do think that a not insignificant number of voters will not vote for her because she is a woman. I work in a male dominated field and sexism is alive and well. We don’t need to add any fuel to the fire – so I think referring to her the same way we refer to male candidates is a small, very easy step we can take to level the playing field for her.
Anon
Calling her Harris isn’t going to make people think of her as a man. The sexism runs a lot deeper than the surface level conventions.
Anon
Yes, it won’t make the sexism go away. But, you don’t have to perpetuate it by always calling her Kamala.
Anon
I’m not sure that Harris is really the stronger brand to go with for name recognition and publicity, but first name + last name works!
Anon
I’m sorry but I just don’t think it is remotely sexist to call her Kamala. Harris is a man’s first name. Kamala is distinctive and you know who you’re talking about immediately. That’s all that’s happening here kids.
Anonymous
Her official campaign is referring to her as Kamala. I’m a trust they know better what she wants than you.
Anon
+2.
pink nails
agreed.
Seventh Sister
I agree. It just strikes me as language-policing the left when the important thing is to get people to vote for her. My GenX self just finds it a waste of time.
Peloton
Eh, everyone called Elizabeth Warren, Warren, not Elizabeth, and everyone called Bernie Sanders, Bernie, not Sanders. Trump famously was “the Donald.” I think people just get called by the more “unique” part of their name.
Anon
This.
Anon
But neither of them (Warren or Sanders) were THE presidential candidate. Sanders seems to be referred to by both pretty equally. Warren was also pretty commonly referred to as “Elizabeth Warren” rather than just Warren, IME. The Donald was in the era of the apprentice, since he’s been in politics he’s almost exclusively referred to as Trump. When he’s referred to as something else, its by the Dems and its to take him down a peg (Donny, TFG).
Peloton
She’s also not THE presidential candidate at this point.
anon
Agreed.
Anon
Hmm I usually call Trump The Cheetoh
Anon
Orange tornado is one I’ve heard
Anon
Yes, to me referring to a VP and presidential nominee by her first name is weird. It is casual and disrespectful.
Anon
If there are any Survivor fans, it makes me think a lot about Lacina’s Winners at War speech where she called out Probst for gender inequality in the game, including the fact that only men were called by their last names. But, also that men can play a cutthroat game and get kudos while when women play that kind of game they get skewered.
Anon
Can’t put my finger on why, but I too find it disrespectful. I make a concerted effort to always refer to her as Harris or VP Harris.
Anon
Ha – I’m in a very, very male dominated, bro culture field. All of the men I work with are referred to by their last name. None of the women are. It actually really bothers me, I feel like I’m not one of the team because of it.
Anon
I’m in a similar environment. Not only do they never use my last name, they use a diminuitive of my first name that I never go by, think Lizzie rather than Elizabeth or Liz.
Anon
Hehe, same, am always the only woman in the room and the men refer to each other by a mix of first and last names and by me as “first only”, and same observation – the last name thing feels less like a respect/honorific and more like a “one of the guys” nickname things, like a sports teams. It does irritate me a little but there is absolutely no way it would be a good idea to raise it – being known as the “feminist who sees sexism in everything” is worse than being known as “Jane”.
BelleRose
This is a big thing in medicine. Male doctors are far more likely to be called “Dr. Lastname” whereas female doctors are more likely to be called “Firstname” or maaaaaybe “Dr. Firstname”.
Anon
I have a rule of thumb that if I can make a change that increases respect for others at no cost to myself, I do it instead of spending time generating arguments against it. It is no hardship to say “VP Harris” instead of “Kamala.”
Anon
This is so well put. Thank you!
Peloton
You’re welcome to do this, and others are welcome to think it’s silly!
Anon
See, when someone says that something feels disrespectful and then you pop on and call it silly, that’s just so rude.
Peloton
Ha, I thought the original comment I replied to was rude! Well, plenty of room for all opinions to exist on this, I think.
Anon
No, Peloton, you were the rude one. Again.
Anon
I think it’s silly and also kind of un American to worry a whole lot about disrespecting rulers by using their literal names? Obviously we have to be polite and respectful to people we work with and people who have the power to hurt us just as a practicality, but I think voters shouldn’t be all worked up about respecting candidates in an election adequately enough.
Peloton
I’m very okay with you thinking I’m rude and me thinking you’re rude, friendo :)
Anon
I don’t see anybody saying that they’re losing sleep or “worrying a whole lot” about this. It’s saying two syllables instead of three. But if it makes you really stressed and anxious, of course you don’t have to!
Anon
Sure – there’s always contrarians who like to protest for no reason about issues they don’t feel strongly about. No one said otherwise.
Peloton
I mean, I strongly think that this sort of victimhood seeking is silly (and undermines people’s ability to call out more serious and insidious forms of misogyny).
Anon
+1 Peleton, this is exactly how you lose the war.
Anon
I just fundamentally disagree with the idea that calling her Kamala is disrespectful or sexist, I think you need to check your premise.
Anon
This is almost akin to pronouns to me – its a very easy switch (requires no money or time!) to make others feel included and welcome and respected. Done. Easy switch to start referring to her as VP Harris.
Anon
Depends on your beliefs, but yes, in general.
Peloton
If you want to make the pronoun analogy, then you should be following her lead, not the concerns of posters here. I don’t think she’s demonstrated an opposition to her first name.
Anon
Exactly, she’s done the opposite.
Anon
People who are in positions of authority or significantly outrank me are never called by just their first name – either just their last name, a title / rank / honorific, or Mr. or Ms. Lastname, and of course ma’am or sir when talking to them directly.
So referring to the VP and presidential candidate by her first name feels very disrespectful to me, because in my experience anyone high up is just not called by their first name.
Anon
Here’s the thing – I wouldn’t call her Kamala to her face – its too informal and disrespectful so why would I call her Kamala behind her back?
Obviously, I don’t need to address her in casual conversation the same way I would in person BUT I’m also not going to call her her first name if we are so not on a first name basis.
Anon
But you wouldn’t call her Harris to her face either! What you call someone to their face and what you use when informally discussing them online have nothing to do with each other. It just comes off as weirdly stiff to use titles when you’re not actually addressing someone.
I feel like her campaigns leaned into the use of her first name because it was more distinctive and because it calls attention to to her race and gender in a way that her last name doesn’t. I can really only think of two female politicians who are consistently called by their first names and they both have obvious reasons to do so (Hillary to eliminate confusion with Bill).
Anon
I’m not on a first name basis with her, so why would I refer to her as Kamala? Heck, if I ever meet her I”m calling her ma’am or her title.
I work in government, not politics, but at a certain level everyone starts getting ma’am’d and sir’d or called their title. Of course amongst staff we’re calling them by their last name, but never their first name. And frankly, that level is not that high.
Anon
Right? In government SES level bureaucrats and low level political appointees who the general public has never heard of are not being called their first name by many people, either to their face or behind their backs. So why would we do that for our VP?
Anonymous
Because her campaign is referring to her as Kamala. So seems like she thinks that’s the best name for her to use.
Runcible Spoon
Yes, it’s sexist and disrespectful, but call her Kamala, or call her VP Harris, whatever you call her, just vote for her! We can all get used to saying “President Harris” after she wins the election.
Anonymous
It’s an interesting point. I think it differs by culture and tradition, but that it starts as disrespect and misogyny.
Where I live in Norway the prime minister is generally described by first name. This is a legacy from the first female PM, Gro Harlem Brundtland. She ended up as just Gro, later went on to WHO. Her successor Jens Stoltenberg (current head of NATO) was Jens.
Every popular and respected PM or chancellor since has been mostly known by their first name – if they’re not, it’s a warning sign that they are not powerful or well-liked. The current one is in trouble, and is increasingly called by his last name.
blanag
In Denmark we have had a lot of prime ministers named Rasmussen in a row in the last 20 years – Poul Nyrup Rasmussen, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Lars Løkke Rasmussen. So I think it may have been necessary to refer to them by their full names, or at least include their distinct middle names to differentiate. When we started getting female prime ministers, they usually got the same treatment.
Sometimes our current prime minister is called Mette-mom, and that is disrespectful, but usually in context of overregulation discussions, so it does make sense. Generally she is referred to by her full name, often including title, as her names are so ubiquitous.
Anon
I’m going back to school (part time) this fall. Now that I have a student ID and .edu email address, I”m looking forward to identifying student discounts that might help. Ditto on back to school sales (saw today that Target has 20% off one purchase).
I’m going to be paying for school out of pocket, so obviously anything to save money would be great.
Anon
There at least used to be a substantial Amazon prime discount.
Anonymous
rothy’s has a .edu discount i believe
Anon
Prime
Walmart+ (great for cheap grocery delivery)
Spotify
Hulu
J Crew and JCF
Madewell
Peacock
Paramount+
Headspace
Washington Post is free with a .edu (also .mil and .gov)
Anon
Look into discount aggregators like ID.me, Unidays, and Student Beans
Anon
ID.me is the spawn of the devil. Why would you give them even more reams of data about you than can already be found elsewhere?
Anon88
Spotify!
student discounts
10% off at Apple!
Anon
Are those fridge organizing bins actually helpful or just a nonsense influencer trend?
FWIW, my fridge is always super disorganized so if they’re helpful, I think they’d be great. Just not sure if they’re worth it.
Peloton
Buy one and see if you like it! I use and like them, but I can see how they’d be clutter for someone else.
Mpls
A whole fridge of them – nonsense.
A couple specifically deployed ones – Useful. But you have to organize it first to know when these are useful. And that depends on how you use your fridge.
I have a lazy susan one for condiments. I have a couple that go in my crisper drawers, because they help contain/manage all the food that I want to put in there. If I didn’t have them, I’d loose track or have more difficulty storing/accessing things in those drawers.
I use the concept of designated spots, like the influencers, just without the extra container. Like I leave the eggs in their carton, but they always go in the same spot in the fridge. All the yogurt goes in the same spot, but I’m not getting it’s own container, because that’s just going to add steps to getting it out of the fridge. Leftover containers have a particular spot they go.
Probably more useful to go through and designate which parts of the fridge are for what category of foods? The containers help that by giving you a thing to label and defining the space a little bit better – but you could label the shelves directly if you wanted to give it a test run and if you have other people in the house that would also need to get on board with making the plan work.
Anonymous
I have one bin (an old plastic thing that I’ve had for 20 years) that I use for corralling all kinds of vegetables, and I use a small plastic tray (from some broccoli I bought) to collect little things. So I vote to start with whatever you already have around first (a shoe-box, a plate, a tray) and then buy something new if you figure out that a bin works for you.
Anon
I like them because I can slide out the bin to grab something in the back of the bin. Things don’t get pushed aside and end up in the back corner of the fridge only to be forgotten about until fridge clean out.
Anon
I fell for these during the pandemic and they seriously just take up space.
anon
I find them helpful for keeping small things together, like yogurt cups. I have a couple in my fridge for odds and ends that otherwise get in the way but I wouldn’t have room for any of my actual food if I filled my refrigerator with bins!
anon
Admittedly I was influenced, but I got rid of my vegetable drawers that came with the fridge, because vegetables would go to die in the back of those, and got some clear plastic lids with bins instead. I like it, as I see better what I have before it goes bad.
Anon
I have a rental fridge (so one with a wide shelf across for most parts of the fridge-with the exception of two separate crisper drawers on the bottom) and I found them helpful. I also paid something like $16 or $20 for a set at Walmart, so I’m not hugely out of pocket. It came with a can organizer for soda/beer (which we use), an egg organizer (unnecessary) and something like 3-4 bins which we use to separate things like yogurt, leftovers and even meats. I’m not an influencer who unpacks and use the bins to reorganize everything I buy by any stretch of the imagination, but it allows me to break up those wide shelves into “sections”, and it’s helpful to know what’s in each section! My fridge in my house had two separate doors that opened in the middle, so the shelves were more like half shelves on either side. Those were easier to organize than these wider shelves that go horizontally across the entire refrigerator.
Anonymous
I have a couple for jams and nut butters, and one for defrosting packages of raw meat and fish so that any freezer juice is contained.
Senior Attorney
I am the outlier here, but I actually have like six of them and I love them. I did the “ADD fridge reorg” a year or so ago and it’s stuck and been very successful: condiments in produce/meat drawers and deli drawer, meat in door cubicles, and produce/mostly everything else in clear bins that I can remove one at a time and paw through as needed.
Anonymous
I’m exhausted by my mom’s and her BF’s annoyance at me for not visiting them more often. They’re not super far away, about 2 hours and in the middle of nowhere. I don’t visit often because they are very unpleasant to be around. Currently, I’m undergoing IVF and I’m not telling them because I don’t want the questions and judgment. The treatments have caused some physical changes, mainly weight gain, acne, and bruising from the injections. Pool time is basically mandatory with them this time of year; maayyyybe I could cover the bruises but I can’t hide the extra 15 lbs or acne. My mother has always been critical of my weight and skin; I don’t want to hear it.
I have tried to invite them to other things. I have invited them to our house, but they rarely come (they don’t like to drive so far) and when they do they make it as unpleasant as possible for my husband (they show up hours early, demand he change the entire cooking schedule and menu at the last minute, and make passive aggressive comments). I recently invited them to the county fair closest to their home. It’s still an hour away from them but it’s not as far as coming to our house. They refused to go and then insisted that we spend the night at their house after. No we don’t want to drive an hour the opposite direction of home only to show up after they’re already in bed (there was an evening event we wanted to see). After some back and forth they left it with, ok see you at Christmas – another dig at how I’m failing as a daughter. Exactly the kind of comment that makes me NOT want to visit. Idk what I’m asking for here. I want to do my duty and I know they won’t be around forever. It just feels like a really heavy emotional lift rn.
Anon
Commiseration. Even setting aside the tensions you’ve described, it’s very unfair for one person in a relationship to always demand the other do the driving for meet-ups. My father nearly fell out with his family over that – they’d never (and I do mean never) drive the 45 minutes to our family’s house, but would expect us to be over there frequently when family was in town. I think the best thing to do is say “sorry you can’t make it to the fair, if you change your mind, we’ll be there from 11-2 or so” and then disengage.
Peloton
I’m sorry. I don’t have any advice, but I’ve done the tough relationship with my mom thing and the IVF thing, and they are each hard enough as separate things; having them overlap would be really difficult. I am sending you all the best wishes on both fronts.
Anon
My parents exhaust me, and we have nothing in common other than DNA. I decided long ago to only take the drive to see them around major holidays and once per major illness/hospitalization. And I only do that out of a sense of obligation. I stay as short an amount of time as possible.
anonshmanon
I’m sorry, that is hard! This might be one of those times when you need to reframe what your goal is. If you don’t show up, they will judge that. If you do show up, they will judge other parts of you. So obtaining your parents’ approval is not an achievable goal for you. Making them value different things, or make different choices, or react to you differently is not on the table. They will be what they are now and trying to ‘win’ by unlocking a non-existent secret to please them is not happening.
Maybe the goal is to define a number of times per year that YOU think is reasonable or dutiful, to spend in their company. I know someone who is ‘making up’ few visits with regular phone calls. The goal is to 1. determine how much you are willing to give, 2. figure out how you will set this boundary, and 3. hold the boundary aka figure out how you will deal with your parents’ reaction. Talk with your partner, or friends or therapist about it!
anon
Commiseration. I don’t have any advice, it’s just demoralizing, and you’re right, it is a really heavy emotional lift. It’s taxing to do it and it’s taxing to feel the guilt if you don’t. I’m expected to make the 5-7 hour drive to see various family members in their various cities and when I don’t, it’s “oh we never get to see you, you’re just so busy, we hope one day you can make time for us…” For whatever it’s worth, you’re not alone, it doesn’t sound like you’re doing anything wrong, and I give you permission to put your wellbeing first.
Senior Attorney
I feel like if you’re in the middle of IVF, you get a pass from pretty much everything. Also I give you permission to tell them whatever you need to tell them to get them off your back for the duration.
anon
It’s not possible for you to make them happy, so you might as well do what makes you happy, or at least at peace. They will harrumph and criticize no matter what.
Cat
+1, if you’re going to be in “trouble” with them regardless, choose what’s best for you.
Roxie
“I want to do my duty”
I invite you to free yourself from believing you have a duty to subject yourself to emotional harm from or by them.
Also, are they doing their duty as parents? Why is this a one sided duty?
NaoNao
I relate so hard. I’ve talked to my mom many times about how unpleasant she makes the visits, but it doesn’t seem to sink in. She’s a fearful, anxious person and doesn’t want to actually leave the house when I visit, but also a poor cook and has disordered eating so I’m always miserably hungry. Over the years it’s gotten incrementally better and I now stay at a hotel, but she also harps on me about my siblings not visiting as if I can do anything to change that!
The only thing I can suggest is low effort “supplementary” things. I know cards mean a lot to her so I do cards for every occasion, we do Zoom calls and emails and texts. I mail her ‘just because’ gifts on occasion. It seems to help, but the bottom line is there’s a generation of women who made their entire identity about raising the most “marketable” women to the marriage market (barf!) and they have so much fear about not succeeding there (so hence remarks about weight–what is Provider Husband leaves because you’re not perfect?!?!) and believe that you are an extension and reflection of them (which to be fair isn’t 100% wrong with their peers).
Anon
I’m sorry for the passive aggressive comments you have to endure.
In general, I do think the driving should be equally split, but the exceptions would be when one person has moved away from their hometown (they should visit more), and when the people in question are parent and child (children should visit more). Maybe its my Asian heritage showing but I think it’s ok to make the effort a little more as gratitude to your parents, flawed and sometimes bad parents as they may be.
So I would say, grit your teeth, go for a limited time (an hour?), and promise yourself a treat afterwards, whether a local coffee shop or a new book or an outing to a place nearby that you love. You can set an approximate level like once a month, and a time limit, and just do it.
Anon
Any favorites for lightweight crossbody bags for everyday that are reasonably sized (but will not hold a pair of sneakers or lunch pail). My leather shoulder bag is causing shoulder pain despite lightening up the load. bonus if you have some wallet suggestions too- mine is a larger leather one and I am downsizing all purse contents!
anon
MZ wallace small sutton. You will not regret. Also, I switched to a card holder a year ago. Have not missed the wallet.
Anon
yes, card holder > wallet.
Anokha
I swear by my Madewell crossbody that can hold my wallet, sunglasses, lipstick and phone.
Runcible Spoon
I love my Tumi Voyageur line cross-body bag. It’s indestructible, and always appropriate. As a bonus, my ginormous wallet just barely fits into the main compartment, along with my keys on a keychain that came with the bag. One of my mobile phones goes in the back slip pocket, and the other mobil phone goes in the front compartment, along with reading glasses, pen, face mask, hair ties. I can squeeze in a few more items if necessary (tube of lipstick, bandana, tissues, etc.) If I wear sunglasses, they perch on top of my wallet in the main compartment when I take them off. My particular model (two compartments) is discontinued, but you can find a camera-bag style that should work for you. Good luck!
Anonymous
The Uniqlo pouch one is popular for a reason.
Senior Attorney
I have the Baggalini Modern Everywhere Bag for travel and I love it even though it may not be the most chic option out there. It has a removable wallet attached by a cord, and it holds everything including a water bottle and a sweater. They also have some smaller models. And +1 for card holder in place of wallet.
Anonymous
I went to run a few errands. When I was driving through a neighborhood, this Range Rover almost hit me when by trying to blow through a stop sign. Then the driver proceeded to gesticulate wildly when I was coming to a complete stop at another stop sign. When I pulled out on the main road, the driver then smashed on his accelerator clearly driving crazy and fast. I honked just because I was irked at that point. Then I thought maybe there was an emergency, there were no flashers on, but still. I saw this car pull into the neighborhood Walgreens so I followed cautiously because I needed to drop off a FedEx package. This guy drove like a bat out of hell to buy condoms and kept telling his “babe” he’d be there in a few minutes.
Anonymous
Well. I guess we can be glad he’s not procreating any time soon.
Anonymous
Yes, I hope that purchase works. He told his babe that he was laughing at this bish….what a Romeo.
Anon
I’m glad you’re OK and I hope this jerk gets his license revoked.
Anonymous
Thank you. Me too. He was just so gross.
Anonymous
Omg hahah!
Anon
Thanks to all who recommended Curtis Sittenfeld as an author I might check out. I have a shoulder injury and so when my doctor told me to take a break from gardening (with plants), cooking, cleaning, and especially sitting with my arm extended up on my desk, and to read a few books with pillows positioned *just so* – I immediately took a look at what was available to download the soonest on Libby by Curtis Sittendeld. Turns out it’s Eligible, and I’m reading it now, thoroughly amused and even laughing out loud from time to time. Just what the doctor ordered, literally. Thanks again!
Anonymous
I’m a little jealous that you get to read Eligible for the first time! If you like Eligible, try Romantic Comedy next.
Anon
Yay! She’s one of my favorite authors and I’ve mentioned her a bunch. Eligible is actually my least favorite book of hers so hopefully you’ll like her other books even more.
Anon
I know people flake on all sorts of things but in 2024, what would be going on in your life that you would not go to a parent or sibling’s funeral. Assume that it’s not during the school year (if that matters) and you are not estranged. Also assume that any number of relatives might help you afford a flight if that cost were to be an issue.
Maybe if you are in the Olympics (but you’d look like a heel, yes, especially if you didn’t medal and also if you did)?
Maybe if you are in jail? (But IIRC sometimes people get furloughed for this depending on the state, sentence, and crime).
DAnon
depression
Anon
Medical issue.
Senior Attorney
Assuming there are no religious requirements to the contrary, I would expect a funeral to be scheduled around something like the Olympics. Otherwise if it were me, I would want my child to go ahead and compete anyway, and would be unhappy if people thought they were a heel for doing so. If you’re incarcerated or deployed in the military it may well be beyond your control. Ditto if you’re sick or in late pregancy and can’t travel. Beyond that, though, I’m having a hard time coming up with a reason.
Anon
Agree — late in pregnancy you may be counseled against flying. I’d go to a local one though.
Seventh Sister
Gosh, plenty of reasons! I’ve known more than a few families where someone was abused and the family sided with the abusive parent / refused to believe the person who was abused. There are estranged brothers on both sides of my family, both sets are in their 80s but neither has interacted with one another since the 1970s. I can imagine they don’t want to go to their siblings’ funerals because someone (friend, casual acquaintance) will almost certainly ask a question about it.
I also know people who will never go to funerals, and I’ve had several relatives who have refused to hold any kind of funeral or memorial service for a loved one. Death makes people do strange things.
Seventh Sister
Sorry, reading comp fail re: estrangement. But I have known people who are in contact with abusive family members but refused to go to funerals or memorial services (which makes perfect sense to me).
Anon
I can’t imagine anyone judging someone for missing a funeral for a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity like the Olympics, and I’m someone who is generally big on “showing up.” Even if you aren’t a medal contender being an Olympian is an incredibly special thing.
Anon
What if it’s like a kid has a swim meet (not Olympics), not college or even something where say future recruiting or scholarship money is at stake?
Senior Attorney
Nope.
Anon
God, no. What an awful lesson for the kid.
Anon
If it’s local, I’d certainly go. But there a million different reasons why someone might not be able to travel: can’t get time off work or school, health issues, travel anxiety, child care, previous commitments to living people or events that they feel take precedence over someone who’s dead (and the dead person would agree- nobody in my family would want you to skip the Olympics or the equivalent for their funeral!). But my family is pretty spread out and always schedules memorial services weeks to months later at a time that works for everyone rather than expecting people to drop everything and fly across the country on short notice. Even so, there are definitely people who have sufficient health issues that nobody expects them to fly.
Anon
If someone had a prior commitment to me, I’d want to know so I could reschedule to let them go to a funeral of a key relative.
Anon
IIRC, memorial services aren’t tied to a burial. I can see where burials have to happen sooner (maybe the one exception is if a person is buried at Arlington National Cemetery, where you wait and then get scheduled and it’s often delayed quite a bit). Presumably if a relative is in the Olympics, the whole family is either committed or it affects many schedules. A kid at a summer swim meet championship has to (I think) just be disappointed (and given liberal ice cream).
Maybe the bar exam or some professional licensing exam where it affects your ability to work and is not held often? In that case, absent a religious reason for a burial (I think if you are Jewish, burials must be held by the Sabbath), you’d just delay by a week to avoid the actual bar exam but might not push it off more if you could have it say at least a week before. Like even in early July, I’d have a funeral but not the week of the bar exam (and maybe the person has a trip scheduled for after the bar).
Anon
I wonder if as the older generation dies out, someone will have a funeral where no one shows up. I get that some people may have no survivors (and that will happen more and more) but this would be a situation where family and friends just flake out even if they are across town.
Anonymous
Your family has treated you horribly for years and you’ve repeatedly asked them to stop but they think they are perfect and just don’t understand why you are difficult.
Anonymous
Say you are lead counsel in a case and the judge put you on a three-week trial calendar even though the case was not ripe for trial under the rules, so the parties have not prepared their cases, and the judge won’t excuse you from possibly being called to trial for any reason.
Anon
Do they do that though? And an trial is maybe a few days of delay, max of a week, yes? I feel like court proceeding stall for all things and often delay but never accelerate.
I can see that for an aunt’s funeral but a parent, spouse, sibling, or child, I can’t imagine them not freeing you up for that. Depends maybe?
Anon for this Judge
I would never do this in a million years, and I’d even say it’s arguably a breach of judicial ethics not to excuse counsel for the funeral of an immediate famiy member.
Anon
Good judges, no. But there are a lot of bad judges, and some of them would do this
Anonymous
Yeah, this was not a hypothetical.
Anon
I had a BigLaw summer clerkship that my parents considered to be a job and refused to tell me about a family funeral because they thought my work commitment was important. I feel like a firm that would have made a stink about it was not one I wanted to work for and better to ask as a summer than assume the worst.
Anon
I’m not quite understanding the hypothetical. Is it you? You don’t want to attend the funeral? Or do you want to judge someone who didn’t?
Anonymous
Maybe you’re relieved. Maybe you’re overcome with grief. Maybe you want to avoid judgmental busybodies.
Anonymous
Well I’m the IVF commenter above so I’m currently making lots of excuses to get out of things. If my egg retrieval or embryo transfer happened to fall on the day of a parent’s funeral, I’m not going to the funeral. The emotional, physical, and financial burden for weeks or months leading up to the procedure… is not something I would sacrifice easily. My loved one is gone regardless of whether I’m there to see their remains go into the ground.
A harder call is if I’m someone’s support person and they needed me. For my own grief, nah I’m sucking it up; for someone else, I’d be more likely to be there, especially if the death was unexpected.
Anonymous
A million reasons. Some people don’t want other people watching them grieve. I didn’t go to my grandmother’s funeral because my dad didn’t want me to see him have it out with his siblings. Medical issues that make group events difficult or travel difficult. Fear of funerals.(I have actually met a few people terrified of being in the same room as the body.) A conflicting wedding or other big event. Or even just a belief that funerals are meaningless since the person is already gone.Difficulty getting the time off of work or childcare. Give grace—you have no idea what others are thinking or feeling or experiencing.No one else’s place to say what’s right. That would be like telling someone else when and how to pray.
Fwiw, my dad did not want a funeral. It wouldn’t have been my choice, but his wishes were for us to scatter his ashes (just immediate family) in the woods where he used to go hunting and have lunch at a nearby restaurant he liked. I’m a vegetarian so the irony of being there wasn’t lost on me. A month or to later my mom held a big lunch at a restaurant with all of their friends and his hospice workers and former coworkers—not sure if that’s what he would want but it was a hoot.
Everyone views death differently. No one’s place to judge.
NaoNao
Some people just don’t want to face that it’s real, and seeing the actual funeral hammers that home irrevocably. I can speak from experience that seeing the coffin and seeing the grave is awful, wrenching, and puts images in your head you can’t ever erase. It takes a lot of internal strength to force yourself if you know what’s coming, honestly.