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Updated: Mar 5, 2021 404 Comments · by

Thursday’s Workwear Report: Plaid Tweed Pencil Skirt

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This skirt from Halogen is tweed but still manages to look summery. I think it would look gorgeous with a peplum navy blazer like this one and navy heels for a very traditional look that’s not a full suit, or just an ivory or navy sweater for a slightly more casual look.

The skirt is $59.40 at Nordstrom, marked down from $99, and available in petite sizes 00–8 and regular sizes 0–16. It's also available in ivory/coral for $35, marked down from $89. Nordstrom also has a plus-size tweed skirt, but it's in lucky sizes only. Plaid Tweed Pencil Skirt

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Sales of note for 9.30.24

Sales of note for 9.30.24

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Ellen

    Very cute dress, Elizabeth. Thanks for showing it to us. I want to go to Nordstrom and try it on, and hope that NYC will reopen shortly.

    I also wanted to give a BIG shout out to the health care workers for all they do for us. Let’s not forget that it is tough sledding for them every day. I went to Lenox Hill hospital yesterday with Myrna at 7:00 pm with a frying pan and a spoon and made alot of noise to cheer them on. We should all do this! YAY!!!

  2. Anon

    The skirt is really beautiful, but it looks like it’s rather long; the coral version is 30 inches and one reviewer noted that it came almost to her ankles.

    • Cat

      I was thinking that just looking at the image! Looks like something that the young personal secretary would be wearing in an Agatha Christie novel…

    • anon2

      I also love it – is it intended to be midi-length? For that price, I would be willing to get it hemmed.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, it is intended to be midi-length. On me, the length would be perfect. Other people might want to hem it. Hemming is about the easiest and simplest alteration there is.

        • Anonymous

          If it’s intended to be long, it might not look right hemmed much shorter unless you also had the side seams tapered.

    • Anon

      It’s always annoyed me that long skirts aren’t seen as professional. They are either too casual or too sister wife or whatever. They are more modest and to me, more comfortable. I’d love to wear ankle length skirts on the regular and not look odd.

      • Anonymous

        Long flowy skirts aren’t professional, but I don’t see why a long tailored skirt like this wouldn’t be. With a blouse it would read a bit secretarial, but with the right jacket it could be a dynamite look on a more senior professional woman. It’s just not junior associate material.

  3. Herbs in an apartment

    For those with East facing apartment windows, what herbs and plants have worked well for you? I have a sunroom area and while it does get morning sun, there isn’t any temperature control and the sun isn’t consistent. Can I grow anything? I’m thinking tomatoes are out, but are outdoor plants and flowers or edible things out of the question? Think I saw some discussion before about Aero garden and that looks intriguing as well. Thanks!

    • Anon

      You could add some grow lights and grow anything you want! I hated my aerogarden, fwiw. Small and makes and annoying noise.

    • Anon

      General geographic location? The answer is going to be much different for Boston, MA vs Jacksonville, FL.
      I cooked a ton of orchids in my east facing window before I had this revelation and now I try to figure out approximately where the author is writing from.

    • Anon

      East is great for succulents! I have some very happy jade plants and a peperomia that’s growing like a weed on my east window.

    • Anon

      My kitchen window is East facing and I root all kinds of things there with great success. So a cutting from a friend’s plant, sprouted garlic cloves, seeds in shallow potting soil, etc. East facing has been fine for all of this and should be fine for all of your plants except the most shade-loving.

    • E

      I’m having fun growing pineapple tops in my east facing kitchen window. Easy to start, they apparently aren’t particular about having good soil, and you basically just twist off the top of a pineapple, let it sort of dry for a day or two, then stick it in the pot. It supposed to take 18 months to get a pineapple. I’ve started three, each about 3 months apart. They are look interesting in the meantime. We’ll see what happens!

    • Mal

      Hardy herbs like rosemary, thyme, and oregano are usually easy to grow if they get decent sun – you just can’t over water them. I’d also try some basil (cuz I love basil) but it likes more water. Bear in mind, I live in a warm area. If you live in a cooler, drier place you may have less success.

  4. clothing with words

    63 consecutive days of wearing shirts with words on them. I need to run into the (now-open) office to pick up something today. Break the streak and wear real clothes? Keep the streak b/c office visitors are banned and I’m just picking up a 200+ page printout? I am torn. I know it’s inevitable, but I really like not ironing and living in a wash & wear world.

    [And I seem to own a binary wardrobe — serious workwear and l/s tees with words on them.]

        • Monday

          I am streaking with you! Working in my office throughout this thing, wearing jeans and sweatshirts/tees with words and logos all day. If you find something that comforts you in a crisis, keep it.

    • Marie

      Another vote for keeping the streak going! Plus the fun of “maybe being caught” in what is really a risk-free situation and over something so benign.

    • Not that Anne, the other Anne

      I’m going in to grab something today in a Life Is Good t-shirt and everyone can just deal with it, so I’m definitely Team Shirts With Words.

    • sleep

      Definitely keep the streak alive. Just throw a blazer over your T shirt. Very chic.

  5. Simsi

    I’m helping my husband put together a consulting agreement and, as this is not my area of law, was hoping you guys may have some tips. (FWIW – he is not a lawyer, it’s finance related, and he’ll likely be handling confidential materials.) Anything specific to look out for in consulting agreements? Terms to include that favor the consultant? TIA!

    • The original Scarlett

      Kindly, you should hire someone who’s area this is. If this is your husband’s master agreement, hat will be money well spent. If he’s consulting for someone else, they will likely have something for him to review and sign and you’ll need someone with knowledge to review it.

      • CountC

        +1 I am a lawyer who works regularly with commercial contracts, but not consulting agreements. I wouldn’t be comfortable reviewing this for the final legal word because I have not had the opportunity to evaluate all of the risks in this type of arrangment.

      • Kdkd

        Agreed! Lawyer for a big 4 consulting company here. Invest in good legal counsel – If his work allows him access to confidential financial information, then he may be subject to SEC or IRS regulations, and he should have a discussion with legal counsel about that.

      • Cat

        A very enthusiastic +1. This is an area where “you don’t know what you don’t know” and careful drafting can help him develop a template that’s favorable to him but not in a way that offends clients. (If he’s marking up the customer’s template, it is guaranteed to be customer-favorable and even more of a reason to bring in an expert.)

      • Anonymous

        Fair enough. Anyone have recommendations for someone to speak with? ATL ideally.

    • Anon

      Everything and it depends on the deal (to answer your two questions)

      If this is for a long-term or $$ project, I would hire a lawyer to do this for you.

    • Anonymous

      Hiring a lawyer when my husband was negotiating this kind of contract with a client was worth every penny we spent; the lawyer pointed out some things we didn’t think about and helped my husband negotiate some more favorable terms on a couple of items. I am not a lawyer myself so hiring one for this was a no-brainer for us. If these types of agreements are not your area of expertise in your law practice – I would hire someone to take a look at it.

  6. In-House in Houston

    To the poster yesterday who said she was in a conversation rut with her husband – I saw your post this morning and wanted to make sure you saw this. Before the pandemic I bought this game as a gift but then opened it one night. It’s a great game – just for 2 people. My husband and I play this game a few nights a week – pour a cocktail and have fun. We really don’t even have to talk that much – but it’s a great way to feel connected and have some fun. There are probably other games out there for 2 people that would be fun. Just a suggestion:

    https://www.target.com/p/rock-me-archimedes-board-game/-/A-50939821

    • Anon

      True – board games are fun for us. Guillotine is fast (and can be played with slightly older kids it’s 2-4 players). I also like Jaipur, 7 Wonders Duel, and collaborative crime solving games.

      • New Here

        Tell me more about the collaborative crime solving games – any recs? We have a 5-month-old and have basically just been watching TV after she goes to bed. I’d like some more game recs.

        In the past, we’ve enjoyed Ticket to Ride and Pandemic (though a little to on the nose right now…).

        • Anon

          The first one I got was Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective, which I would give like a B-B+. A few of the mysteries have been underwhelming, and the game was translated from French so there are occasional weird translation errors (nothing material). This one is all paper based – you get a pamphlet for each case, with the prompt. Each location you investigate has a corresponding section of the pamphlet where it describes your “investigation” and you use that info to solve the mystery.

          There’s also Chronicles of Crime which is similar but uses playing cards with QR codes for each location, suspect, etc. and you scan them with your phone. This one is cool because you can actually look around the crime scene and find clues yourself. It’s probably a B+, A- .

          I think generally for mystery games, you have to lower your expectation for how satisfying the “solve” will be. The people who write the games aren’t professional mystery authors, so it’s not going to be as good as a real Sherlock mystery. Once I did that, I started enjoying them more.

          • Anon

            My friend is a criminal investigator and I should get him one of those games as a joke. Here! Now you can do your work at home too! LOL

        • DLC

          A few years ago my husband bought one of those “Two Minute Mytery” books (by the guy who wrote Encyclopedia Brown- remember him?). And some evenings we take turns reading them to each other and solving them. Probably not as time consuming as a game, but pretty entertaining .

    • PolyD

      We take walks around our neighborhood and have had good conversations about which houses we like and don’t like (currently we are apartment-dwellers).

    • Senior Attorney

      Oh, that looks great! It’s sold out at Target near me but I found one on eBay. Hubby will love beating the pants off me with this!

    • Anonymous

      Ugh. I was excited about the prospect of this two-person game idea, but my BF is sooo much smarter than I am, plus his visual acuity is much much better. This game would be no fun for either of us. Other suggestions? Anything with some luck involved? Trivia is also a no-go.

      • Anon

        The one I mentioned above, Guillotine, might work! There’s not a ton of long term strategy, and you don’t need general knowledge to do well.

      • Senior Attorney

        We have been enjoying CodeNames for two. (Make sure you get the special edition for just two players.)

      • Mal

        Discovered the card game Karma – combo of strategy and luck. Fairly easy to learn and fun!

    • Jules

      OP, this game looks great. My SO was trained as an engineer, so this would give us a game where he can excel (compared to Scrabble and all word games, where I am queen).

  8. anon

    I’ll put in another plug for the Johnny Was masks. I love the patterns and I’ve found them to be very comfortable compared to other masks. On my face, at least, they don’t shift around as much as other cloth masks I’ve tried. If I have to wear a mask, I’m going to make it a fashion statement!

    • CountC

      Same! I got mine yesterday and am wearing one today. I was concerned that they would be too big on me based on another comment about generous sizing, but they are the first reusable ones that I have tried which are not too big! I have a gray and while polka dot shift dress with a blush moto jacket on today and am wearing a floral mask with pink in it – loving it!

    • The original Scarlett

      +1 with caution- I think my ears are really far back on my head because the elastic on these and all masks w elastic hurts my ears still, but these less than others. I out these as my second string, quick errand masks. My first place ones are still the Amy Kuschel’s – they tie instead of hook and I find that much more comfortable for extended wearing

      • Anon

        I also love my Amy Kuschel mask! The tie makes it take a bit longer to put on but it is (other than reflecting hot air back to me) very comfortable after that.

  9. Anonome

    My elderly parents completely refuse to own cell phones. Hell, they won’t even use an answering machine. They have a landline that will just ring forever if they’re not home.

    Now that health providers are starting to open up, they’re all specifying that you have to report to the practice’s parking lot, stay in your car, and text to inform them that you’ve arrived for your appointment. You’ll be notified back via text when you can come in. My parents are flipping out about this, and I don’t have an answer. Any suggestions to buy a cheap burner phone, etc., are met with typical Boomer rants.

    I’m also not thrilled that modern life tethers you to a tracking device, but I don’t really see any way around this, considering this is one time that cell phones are helping protect people’s health. Am I missing an obvious solution?

    • Anonymous

      Nope. Hang up on them. “This is how the world works. If you want help, happy to. I’m not listening to any more rants about this.”

    • Anonymous

      They need to call the doctor’s office and ask what the solution is for people like them who don’t have a cell phone. There’s no need for panic on their part or outrage on yours. I’m sure there’s a practical workaround.

      • Anonymous

        Why? Why should any office bother accommodating cranks who refuse to move with the times? You don’t deserve an accommodation just because you don’t wanna.

        • anonshmanon

          not sure about the legal framework, but ethically, denying health care should have a pretty high hurdle.

        • Anon

          Yeah, why would elderly people or people who can’t always afford a cell phone need to go to the doctor? Screw them, right?

    • Anon

      At first I was thinking that the US healthcare system can’t discriminate against a large portion of the US that doesn’t own a cell phone, but then I googled it and if my google skills are correct I was surprised to see we are at 96% that own a cell! So, unfortunately, I think your parents are going to need to be the ones to accommodate not the other way around.

      That being said, a) have you asked the healthcare providers? Hopefully they’d be able to think of a solution. There will be times when someone with a phone will accidently arrive with a dead phone etc., so they should come up with a back up plan; b) are you parents deteriorating in a way that the onus to figure this out is on you? If not, I would leave it to them, since they are the ones being unreasonable & clearly you aren’t going to change that….

      • Anonymous

        My elderly relatives don’t have them b/c they don’t leave home all that much. There is an answering machine, but often only one spouse checks it. I think with older people, it is not uncommon. I see people borrowing a relative’s phone for the day of an appointment (or often bringing a relative who is good at hearing and being a co-listener), but in small towns, the relative in their 60s often drives for the relative in their 80s. Among older people, phones are things you may lend out (like a flashlight) vs something we regard as ultra-personal (like a toothbrush that one does not share).

        But, seriously, the office can make a workaround — like knock on the door and wave if they know that it is elderly Mrs. Grommit coming for her 9:30 bloodwork. They often have someone outside taking temperatures anyway.

      • Anon

        Yeah, I agree with this. The parents need to talk with the healthcare providers and see if there is a workaround. If the providers are helping a lot of elderly patients, they have almost certainly already come up with a solution.

        My elderly father lost the ability to use a cell phone before he lost the ability to drive himself around muddle through basic appointments. He would cover by saying he didn’t want to use it, or he dropped it a lot, or it wouldn’t work right, or whatever. The truth was that he just couldn’t remember how to use it (he used it for many years, but I guess navigating a cell phone was one of the first abilities to go for him). You know your parents best, but I just wanted to say that sometimes a “refusal” to use technology is about more than hating progress.

    • Lily

      No, they are ridiculous and need to get a cell phone. Or at least borrow one for the time it takes to go to the doctor.

    • Anonymous

      I’m confused why they’re ranting at you instead of calling their doctor to ask about other options.

    • MagicUnicorn

      How elderly is elderly? If they are young enough and cognizant enough to still be driving themselves around, this seems like a problem they need to solve themselves and you are justified in not taking on for them.

      • anonshmanon

        Was also wondering about this. What’s the long-term vision here? Everything is moving to cell phones. My elderly neighbor is dropping money she doesn’t have on a taxi service twice a week, because she cannot access ride share apps. My grandma was constantly at war with the office computer she was forced to learn how to use in the late 90ies. Counting the days until retirement. She said never again will she touch such a damned machine. She hopefully still has decades ahead of her, in a very rural place, and it would be great to be able to FaceTime or send her information, or for her to look up stuff, but it’s never going to happen.

      • anon

        +1 if they are still able to get themselves to the doctor on their own they are able to figure out a solution to this on their own

        • Senior Attorney

          Yup.

          Also my 94 year old dad has a Jitterbug phone and it’s super easy and not very expensive.

    • Anon

      I’m sure the doctor can have a solution for their case, maybe they check the parking lot at a designated time. They need to ask.

    • Anonymous

      I work with a population that often does not have a working cell phone. Our offices are closed right now, but people can come and knock on the door and then when it is there turn our secretary will go out and wave at them to come inside. I would imagine the dr’s office might do something similar. They should call and ask.

    • Anonymous

      My parents also do not have a cell phone. Their doctor’s office holds up a bright sign at the window when it is time for one of them to come in. My parents literally have to stare at the window so they don’t miss it but it seems to work. And my parents have each had cell phones but honestly could not learn how to use them — and they really tried. These are people who do not use a computer, have never used an ATM, and still use a VCR.

    • S in Chicago

      Some of the advice you’re getting here is pretty lousy and only going to make them dig in their heels. You need to make them think through and realize they need it on their own. I found with my mom’s own reluctance to take on a new laptop after more than a decade when hers was too slow was to put the situation in a context that might sink in more. So with her it was:

      “I know you hate the idea of this. And it is frustrating to learn new things. But with so much happening online these days (give examples of things that matter to them–for me with my mom it was ability to have a virtual doctor appointment, stream church services, order groceries and other supplies), it’s just the normal of how things are done. It’s sort of like if you had a car and it broke down and you refused to get it fixed or get another one even though all of your resources are a couple of towns a way. Pretending this is going to get better or it’s going to change it just isn’t going to happen. You can’t just keep avoiding this–you’re not going to wake up tomorrow and find you’re in a magically different situation.”

      Sometimes I think inaction is due to hoping to go back to the way the world it was. They need to reason through that avoidance isn’t working for them.

    • KS IT Chick

      I can check with a colleague who is working on our direct rooming project to find out for sure, but the last information I had is that we now require the ability for mobile communication to be able to see a patient in one of our clinics. We ask that they call from their vehicle when they arrive in the parking lot so that we can go through the questions required to bill insurance, then we give them a approximate time to come in. When we are ready for them, we call or text. Then, they are met at the clinic door and asked/told to put on a mask. From there, it is straight to the room.

      If the patient doesn’t have a mobile communication device, they can’t be seen for an in person visit; it has to be telehealth. Even that will require a computer with a camera, microphone and speakers.

      You aren’t going to be able to fix this for your parents. They will have to talk to their providers. We are doing this for the safety of all, nit to inconvenience them

      • Anon

        I don’t know what kind of providers you service, but I think this is too far. There are plenty of ways to make sure people don’t congregate in a waiting room and to make sure all patients are safe that don’t require an elderly or poor person to purchase a cell phone that they may not want, need, or be able to navigate. The parents in this situation do need to talk to the providers, but I would be very angry if my parents’ PCP or other essential provider refused to see them just because they do not have a cell phone when there are other solutions for this.

        • anon

          I’m not the person you are responding to but I feel like it’s unfair to put an additional burden on already burdened healthcare providers. I don’t see how this is any different from other requirements certain providers have. Not every doctor has to cater to every single patient and it’s unfair of us to demand that they should.

        • KS IT Chick

          I work for a large metropolitan health system, with over 12K employees. We have clinics in 37 locations, with configurations of everything from a single strip mall storefront to a medical plaza served by a 7 story parking garage. Many of the waiting rooms literally no longer exist, being converted to temporary office space for the roomers & check in specialists.

          I didn’t say cell phone. I said mobile communication device. We have patients who have pagers. We have done telephone visits with patients who didn’t have computers or cell phones. It isn’t conducive to quality care, but it seems to be better than nothing.

          The reality is that everything changed 2 months ago. We pretty much lost the ability to accommodate individual preferences in the face of a nearly overwhelming disease.

          Change is HARD. We know that. We literally have to make changes every day as we learn more. We are trying to do the best we can for the most people we can, but that requires changes for the people we serve, too.

          • anonshmanon

            Let me say thank you for trying your best and continuing to find solutions!

    • Formerly Lilly

      What about the Jitterbug flip phone? Limited functions, big buttons, big display.

      • Coach Laura

        Yep, try a Jitterbug or similar device for elderly. Like someone up above mentioned, my father-in-law lost the ability to use a cell phone early in his dementia process, followed by not being able to use the home phone. A big button phone pre-programmed by a relative to call the daughter, the doctor, the cab company and 911 would work.

    • Anon

      They or you should at least tell the office that they would have to purchase a cell phone for this. The town I grew up in recently installed parking meters that accepted payment via smartphone only. My parents have cells but not smart phones. I complained on their behalf and found out when I did so that the town had heard a lot of complaints and were already on the path to changing them to accept other forms of payment. In your case, there may ultimately not be another option, but at least worst letting them know that it’s a hurdle!

      • Anonymous

        This — my parents have cell phones that they use only when travelling or sometimes if they need to text basic words. But they aren’t smart phones. They can basic text but my kids are bewildered that they can’t get emojis. I don’t that their phones can handle payments.

    • Anon

      They should at a minimum allow phone calls over texting. My parents have no idea how to text on a flip phone and I suspect there are many in that boat.

    • anon a mouse

      could they request the very first appointment of the day and arrange to arrive at a set time (10-15 minutes early?) so that there’s no risk of the doctor running behind?

      • Anonymous

        This — especially if they are elderly — the least germy part of the day is first thing.

    • Anon

      It’s not your job to find a solution to this, especially since it seems you’ve already tried.

    • Anon

      I am usually the one who makes a big deal out of things, but it isn’t a big deal for a receptionist to wave or knock on a care window for a couple of people. Even though 96% have cell phones, they do cost quite a bit of money for people who may not often go out or get many calls. It is technically an unnecessary expense. Also, many places, even parts of decent neighborhoods in small prominent cities, still do not have service there. Ugh.

    • Old Married

      They need to call their doctor’s office – I am sure they are not the only people with this issue and the office should have an idea. While the vast majority of Americans have a cell phone of some type, seniors are most likely not to have one.

      I agree with the post who suggested that other than offering that solution or offering to help them find a phone, you can and should cut off the ranting. It is just frustrating for everyone involved.

      Also – the blatant and unapolgetic agism on this thread is truly horrific. I really wish we could stop with the gross generalizations about Millennials and “Boomers”. As someone in her 50’s age discrimination is a real thing and these kinds of attitudes do not help.

      • Anonymous

        If any one had watched their 89 year old father with Parkinson’s struggle to push buttons on phone/computer they would understand how difficult this could be. It is not a case of not wanting to, it is not being able to.

    • Anonymous

      My parents have cell phones, that they turn on to make phone calls. If they remember to charge the phone. My dad attempted to upgrade to a smart phone but he does not have the dexterity anymore from years of manual labor to text. No matter how hard he tried, he would type more than one letter at a time. He is back to using the old phone. It likely was a good idea bc he frankly does not understand technology. We routinely help with tech problems that a ten year old can resolve.
      Some doctors are willing to accommodate people. My father’s telemedicine appointment was switched from video to a phone call. The appointment was more successful bc my father was not stressed trying to figure out the technology.

  10. Sinus rinsing

    For those of you who do sinus rinsing, are there any studies or annecdata if it helps / hurts / is neutral re coronavirus spreading? I think it is helpful re getting the gunk out of my head and haven’t gone out much in 2 months. But now that we’re reopening, I wonder if continuing is a good or bad thing. My allergies are a bad thing, so I won’t drop it unless there is something really clear that maybe it’s best to hold off.

    • anon

      can’t really think of a reason it would hurt, but best check with your doctor.

    • Anon

      Unless you’re doing it in a public place and potentially spreading *your* germs to others, I don’t see how it would be bad?

      • Anonymous

        I agree with this. What is your concern here . . . that you are ill without knowing it, and something you do regarding rinsing will spread the virus to someone else in your household? Or is there a different concern?

          • Anon

            My ENT told me that rinsing would help when I specifically asked about my propensity to catch colds and viruses. I did not ask about COVID specifically though.

    • Anonymous

      I use the squirt bottle. I initially had some concern that this might actually force the virus further into my system, but decided that did not make much sense. I’ve been pretty vigilant about doing it, both after being outdoors for a period to limit allergy symptoms (which can also lead to Covid-mimicking symptoms and Covid-spreading behaviors), and upon return home after being in a “crowded” space or when I know I’ve been touching things and maybe then touched my face. I don’t have anything except personal anecdata that I don’t believe I have contracted the virus.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      I don’t think it can hurt, except that you should be super careful to clean it- I put mine in a baby bottle sterilizer.

  11. HSAL

    Cooking question: Early in the shutdown I was buying groceries from a local restaurant. I got a five pound bag of chicken breasts for $10, which was great, but it was all frozen together. So I need to thaw and cook all of it at once since I won’t refreeze thawed uncooked meat. Suggestions? I’m thinking some shredded chicken in the crockpot, bake the rest in the oven, or maybe grill? Any other ideas I’m missing?

    • Anonymous

      I’d make a large chicken pot pie and freeze it in reasonable servings and also make a pot of chicken noodle soup to freeze.

    • MagicUnicorn

      Other than chiseling off smaller portions so you don’t have to thaw the whole thing at once, I’ve got nothing.

      Saying this as the proud owner of a 5 pound frozen solid block of sugared strawberries from my last curbside pickup substitution… that was supposed to be a bag of loose frozen sliced strawberries.

      • AnonATL

        You might be able to smash up the strawberries like you would a bag of ice that’s frozen together. The chicken breasts… well those are probably goners and you will have to thaw them all and go ahead and cook.
        I would do some shredded chicken in the instant pot, maybe cube some and bake or skillet cook so you could toss that in casseroles or the pot pie someone mentioned above.

        • MagicUnicorn

          I’ve smashed apart fused chicken breasts before, but this strawberry block is in a plastic tub roughly the size and shape of a cinder block. It is solid all the way through, not like a pile of loose berries that are stuck together. I don’t think I can break it up without contaminating the fruit.

          Love the idea of jam and simple syrup!

    • The Original ...

      You’ve covered the textures but the features can change… grilled plain with salt and pepper, grilled after marinating in Italian dressing, grilled with teriyaki, grilled with lemon and capers, shredded in a crock pot, shredded with taco seasoning, baked plain, baked with breading, some for salad (whatever way you like it cooked), some could go into soup, etc. Chicken is one of the few meats I like so it’s not so much about variety of cook as it is variety of preparation. Enjoy!

    • Anonymous

      I sometimes buy a big bag of frozen chicken breasts and I just pull apart a couple pieces to use at a time.

    • Vicky Austin

      Can you hit it against something so they break into pieces? I have to do this sometimes (temperamental freezer).

        • Vicky Austin

          Yes! Although – I did that once sans bag and they flew in several different directions. My dog nabbed one and it was the happiest day of his life! So, you know, keep it in the bag. ;)

    • NYNY

      I would be okay with partially thawing them to make it easier to break them up, then refreezing in reasonable portions.

    • anon a mouse

      Supposedly salsa-chicken in the crockpot can be frozen and reused for things like enchiladas. I made some a few weeks ago but haven’t used it out of the freezer yet.

      You can also do basic grilled chicken, cut into cubes and then freeze the cooked meat in 1-2 cup portions. We’ve done that with good success. Barbecued chicken gets frozen for a future BBQ chicken pizza topping. Plain chicken gets used in a chicken pot pie. Etc.

    • Thanks, It Has Pockets!

      Look up some recipes for white chicken chili, that’s what I’d make, since it’s easy to portion out in little plastic soup containers and freeze for later. Or slow cooker hot honey chicken, and eat the leftovers for lunch every day until it’s gone.

  12. Paging "Down Under" fan (more happy songs)

    I missed your post the other day but some songs from the same era:
    George Michael: Freedom!
    General Public: Tenderness
    When in Rome: The Promise
    The Cure: Just Like Heaven; Friday I’m in Love
    Dream Academy: The Edge of Forever (Ferris Bueller, Sloane, and Cameron visit the Art Institute of Chicago)
    Elvis Costello: Every Day I Write the Book

    And, not from the ’80s but cheerful nonetheless:
    Smashing Pumpkins: 1979
    Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds: Breathless

  13. Anon for This

    Not sure what I’m looking for here but can’t really say this anywhere else and need to say it out loud… Today is the release date of my first book. It was supposed to come with lots of promo events and a couple of parties. I was going to hold the book in my hand and it would all feel real. It was supposed to be the big moment I’ve dreamed of for over 30 years. Instead all events were canceled, the publisher decided to cancel all marketing (not postpone, cancel), and the print version of the book is delayed for months so only the technology-based versions are released today. Print is delayed indefinitely. While I logically know that I should be proud of myself or thrilled that it’s out there or whatever, I just feel emotionally awful. I not only didn’t get to have the moments I’ve waited 30 years for, I now worry that my work won’t ever gain the readers it would have in a non-pandemic so the purpose will be lost.

    I just feel grumpy and also whiny because this is such a privileged thing to complain about in the middle of a pandemic. I’m usually so great at positivity and gratitude but today I’m just seeing all of what should have been and isn’t.

    • Vicky Austin

      I am so sorry! You have worked so hard and been waiting for this reward. I’m sorry it can’t be what you were hoping for.

      That said, if you’re willing to drop the book’s name I’d love to support you!

    • pugsnbourbon

      Oh I’m so sorry. It’s normal to feel disappointment that what you’ve worked so hard for and dreamed so long about isn’t going to happen. I know I’d be devastated. Please let yourself feel your feelings and don’t beat yourself up about them.

      And a big, big congratulations on your book. It’s an incredible achievement. If you feel comfortable, let us know the title so we can check it out.

    • Anonymous

      I am sorry. My husband is in the same boat and it just sucks for you guys. It is totally normal for writers to dream about what is going to happen when their first book is published and seeing that evaporate is a loss, and it’s okay to grieve it. Hugs.

    • Anonome

      That is a huge pile of suck, I’m so sorry! You are so very justified in feeling crappy about this.

      I’m hoping we will see a resurgence of all the art and media that were postponed or slid under the radar during Covid.

    • Marie

      Your feelings of disappointment are legitimate. This is a huge accomplishment, where recognition is certainly deserved, and it makes sense to feel like a letdown, particularly with everything else that is going on. That being said, congratulations on completing such a huge endeavor!

    • Patricia Gardiner

      Congratulations on your huge accomplishment!! So sorry that the timing sucks and you won’t be able to celebrate as you deserve. Please tell us the book and I bet a number of ‘r*tt*s will support you!

      • Another anon

        Buying the one linked above, whether it’s OP’s or another one of our Ladies, I’m thrilled to support someone here, especially now that I hear how trying the times are for authors (I hadn’t thought so much about that, tbh). Hoping we can collectively support via social media too, I’m glad she posted and I hope the other authors here (and the wives of authors) have better sales than they expect! :)

    • Carmen Sandiego

      I am so, so sorry that this moment is not how you dreamed it would be. That totally sucks, and you being disappointed by that is in no way whiny! I hope that once you let yourself grieve the what should have been, you can celebrate your amazing accomplishment! Reading is my all-time favorite thing to do, and I’m always so amazed and impressed by people who can write a book. Congratulations on this accomplishment! If you feel ok doing so, please share your book here, as I would love to read it.

    • KS IT Chick

      Totally understandable! You aren’t wallowing or whining.

      John Scalzi, who has hit the NYT bestseller list a couple times, had a new novel come out a few weeks ago. He was supposed to do a multi-state book tour, which had to go completely virtual. He was disappointed and a little down about it. Even with the new book hitting the list again, it didn’t feel like a book launch.

      Your first book? Dang right that you should get to celebrate and promote it! That’s a serious accomplishment.

      And, n-thing the wanting to know the book title, so we can support a member of our community.

    • Anonymity

      That is really sad! I have no idea how books work, but are you able to do your own promotions? It won’t be like having support of your publisher, but even doing something online through your local library might feel good. And definitely do a virtual launch party with your friends and family – people want to celebrate you. And please tell us the title!

    • anon for this

      Hugs, that is so hard and of course you are grieving over what might have been.
      My DH had a book come out in late February — we have hard copies, but all of the associated events, including international travel, have been shelved indefinitely. He said it feels like his accomplishment went into a black hole, and it barely even feels real. It’s just terrible.

      (Echoing others, post the title! We can buy online and request that our local libraries add it to their collections.)

    • Senior Attorney

      Oh, man!

      What a heartbreak! Big hugs and I would definitely buy your book!

    • Anon

      Oh no! This is such a major milestone! You have every right to be disappointed and even crushed! Maybe you could partner with a local independent bookstore to do a signing and party when things open up again? Man, this stinks.

    • Anon

      Oh my gosh, I am so sorry. That really sucks and I think you deserve a day (at least) to feel grumpy about it.

    • Ses

      Congratulations on the achievement, and sympathies on the bad timing of the real-world version. I hope you can have a low key online champagne toast with friends who are proud of you.

    • Jules

      Of course this is seriously disappointing, and your feelings are 100% understandable.

      But congratulations, it’s a fantastic accomplishment!

    • Happy Rose

      That must be incredibly disappointing. Writing and publishing a book is a huge accomplishment- I really admire you. I’ll toast you with a glass of bubbly tonight!

  14. Ribena

    Happy book birthday nonetheless! The chat I’ve seen on publishing twitter and podcasts is that publishers and agents will be more ‘forgiving’ than usual of a debut that doesn’t fly if it’s a 2020 one. They know that performance of a new book right now doesn’t reflect how it would perform in ‘normal times’.

    It’s so difficult when something you’ve worked towards and dreamed of doesn’t come to pass in the way you hoped, for reasons completely outside of your control. I see you ❤️.

  15. Anon

    Did anyone see the article “the end of meat is here“ in the New York Times this morning? I’m finding it pretty hard to ignore. In my household, we don’t eat all that much meat, but we are definitely not vegetarian or vegan. I have been feeling an urge to listen to the inner voice telling me to explore vegetarianism more, but it’s been hard to find accurate information about the healthiest diet personally (I used to do paleo and all I’ve heard is how meat is so great). Does anyone have any non-preachy resources, including information on pescaterianism, that they can point me to? I’m already pretty sold on the negative impact of meat on the climate and would be looking for more resources focused on health. TIA!

    • Anonymous

      I’m pleased that because I’m a vegan others now will know that I care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change. It will be relaxing to have to virtue-signal in other ways less. :)

      • Anonymous

        Eyeroll. You clearly really enjoy virtue-signaling, I can’t imagine there’s anything that would stop you from doing it.

        • Anonymous

          She’s making a joke based on the article title, which says (paraphrasing) “if you care about the working poor, about racial justice, and about climate change, you should be vegan”

    • Panda Bear

      Feeling the same here. Maybe it would help to consult with a nutritionist?

      The biggest thing that I let hold me back from committing to vegetarianism is ‘but what will I cook?’ since so much of my repertoire is meat based. I should get some better vegetarian cook books, I guess.

    • Pure Imagination

      Yes, I read it and I’m finding it compelling for the same reasons. We eat a lot of vegetarian meals at home and I’m toying with the idea of dropping meat completely. I’ve always defaulted to “but I buy organic meat from good sources so it’s okay” and I’m not sure that it is. I also have concerns related to exploitation of chickens and cows for eggs and dairy, but at least right now, I don’t think I’ll fully move to veganism (I do think we need some animal products in our diets for B12 purposes). Will be interested to see if anyone posts good advice here.

    • CountC

      Oh hell, that picture!! I am going to read it, but quickly scroll by that horrifying cow/lamb (?) skull staring back at me from the back of a truck.

      • Nope

        Thank you for the warning, I kept scrolling before I clicked, and now I think I’ll pass it by entirely. Sincere thanks :)

    • anonshmanon

      I’ve found it useful, both practically and mindset-wise, to focus on expanding my vegetarian and vegan repertoire, and to find specific substitutions and stretch meat and dairy. For example: finding a recipe for Indian lentil stew like they serve in many restaurants (vegan and super easy) which is now a fixture in cold-weather menu plans. Learning how to make tofu in a way that we enjoy (press, marinate in spices with a few drops of liquid smoke, fry – the pressing is a little annoying, but it makes a difference, and one block of tofu is enough protein for 3-4 meals, so for me, it’s worth the effort). I love making butter chicken, but I often add chickpeas or eggplant to increase the volume, and I add a can of coconut milk instead of the cream, which also allows me to cut down on the butter.

      I researched a bit about different dairy products, to learn that in terms of climate impact, they are not all the same. Butter and hard cheeses take way more milk to produce, while cream, cream cheese and soft cheeses take less. So I opt for soft cheese more often, and substitute margarine for butter in a lot of recipes (have found no issues in cooking, but I am more careful in baking after a weird batch of cinnamon buns). All meats are not the same, either, in terms of climate gases. Pigs and chicken don’t emit as much methane, although the problems of ethics, land and water use, and pollution remain. Since ground beef is pretty much the only beef I eat, there is no lack of faux options that are all reasonable substitutes.

      I’ve been using this study from the Lancet as rough guidance
      https://scalingupnutrition.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/EATLancet-Report.pdf
      There is a table on page 5 that suggests amounts for each food group, which add up to a optimally balanced diet (so likely the healthiest option for most people, adapt for special nutritional needs). It is also a diet that, if everybody adopted it, could be sustained on a global level from an environmental standpoint. What I found helpful was that not only did it tell me I should try to cut my dairy consumption a bit (not a surprise), but also what I should eat more of! Nuts and legumes were more of an afterthought in my pantry before, now my morning bagel comes with a handful of nuts on the side and I throw a few spoonful of beans into my tomato sauce as well as my mac’n’cheese.
      It helps me to not go all or nothing, just keep trying stuff out. I have tried out a bunch of fake dairy products, but the cashew-coconut cream and the faux yoghurt weren’t up my alley. Oatmilk works well for me, except in my coffee. I will try out other products every now and them, and they don’t all have to stick. It’s not different from trying a new vegetable or different flavor of chips one grabs in the store and later thinks ‘mh, I won’t buy this again’. The next vegan product might be good!

    • Anon

      I would ethically love to be a vegetarian or even vegan but unfortunately I don’t think my dietary restrictions would allow it and I bet there are a fair number of people in this boat. I’m dairy free, gluten free, allergic to avocado and due to my Crohns can’t have to much fiber/roughage/raw stuff at once. I can eat a vegetable quinoa bowl once and awhile but I certainly couldn’t eat one daily without getting pretty sick.

      • Anonymous

        Same, I don’t have Crohn’s but I have IBS and a long list of dietary restrictions – I can’t eat beans, or yogurt, FFS. It breaks my heart. I can’t do quinoa, period, and if I have a regular ol’ salad three days in a row I have some really bad outcomes intestinally.

        We are trying to do “less meat” as some folks mentioned below – like we will cook two strips of bacon and add it as an accent to a meal for three people. We’re trying to do meatless dinner 2 times a week and “meat accented” another 2-3 times. But I do not think a totally plant-based diet is in my future unless I want to spend a large portion of my life in the bathroom, and I kind of already did that before my diagnosis, and don’t want to go back.

    • Ribena

      I dropped to pescetarianism as my 2020 New Years resolution. I had done a vegan month in November and found that pretty difficult, and pescetarianism is the right balance for me. I still probably have fish only as often as I did when I ate meat (once or twice a week) so it’s not like I’m eating fish on all the occasions I was eating meat before. I don’t eat a LOT of commercial meat substitutes (maybe 3 meals a week include them?) but I have a lot of beans and legumes in my diet. Lentil bolognese and bean chilli, for example.

    • PolyD

      I feel like meat or no meat discussions often seem to be an all or nothing thing. Maybe eat less meat? Very few Americans will suffer malnutrition by only eating meat a few times a week. Now that my partner and I are sharing more dinners, I’m eating more meat, but in normal times I basically ate eggs, tuna, and beans most of the time and only really ate meat if I went to a restaurant, because I’m not very good at cooking it.

      Of course, I am considering eggs to be not-meat. Canned tuna and the like are meat, but maybe less impactful than beef? Anyway, I think the concept of meat shortages is kind of scary but in real life we’ll be okay with less meat.

      • Anon

        +1 I wish there were more focus/discussion on less meat. It does feel all or nothing. I’ve been cutting back on meat but so much of the discussion around this topic makes it hard to get my family to buy in because it makes it seem higher stakes than it is. In reality my family will happily eat more vegetarian, vegan or pescatarian recipes until I make a THING about it. Then suddenly it’s like “oh my god, I must have the cheeseburger”.

        • Ribena

          This is partly why I just committed myself to being pescatarian for 2020. If I said no more cheeseburgers ever, I know I would REALLY want one. But, it’s just til next year. I suspect my balance from 2021 onwards will be meat only when eating out? To try to keep the quantity down.

          • Anon

            I admire that! I don’t think I could commit to pescatarian for a whole year and sometimes I really do just want a cheeseburger! But I grew up in a total meat and potatoes household where we ate red meat at least 3 times a week and other meat/poultry every day. I’m currently vegetarian before dinner and probably average 4-5 days/week of being vegetarian. I still eat meat but it’s a huge improvement from what I grew up with!

      • Anon

        Yeah I try to join my son in his vegetarian meals as often as I can, but I have GERD, lactose intolerance, and was advised to eat a low FODMAP diet by my nutritionist so there’s only so much I can do. Pescatarianism with some chicken once in a while is where I landed. If someone has multiple dietary restrictions, they eat whatever narrow slice of readily available and hopefully ethically produced foods that they can.

    • Anonymous

      I get stabby without cheese. Probably better for the planet if I continue on as is.

    • cbackson

      So the truth is that there’s no objective “healthiest” diet – you’ll get people who’ll tell you it’s paleo and people who will die on the hill of the Mediterranean Diet and people who make the case for vegetarianism…”healthiest” is ultimately a matter of opinion, although I advocate trying to collect and review the opinions of actual experts rather than Podcast Bros (side note: I know so many people who would rather take the advice of some dude on a podcast on nutrition than the advice of an actual dietitian…).

      I eat a mostly vegetarian diet with a lot of vegan dishes; most experts (other than those in the paleo or Atkins camp) will tell you that everyone benefits from eating more plant-based meals (more fiber, diversity of nutrients, etc.). I’m a big fan of Isa Chandra Moskowitz’s cookbooks, personally.

      • Anon

        I find it helps to diet track micronutrients (not calories!) for a week or so every so often. I use an app that shows me whether I hit RDAs and which nutrients each food contributed. I didn’t find it at all intuitive (there were days when I hit my servings of vegetables but didn’t hit my RDA for “vitamin C” because of the specific vegetables I ate! And for me they weren’t one offs: those were my favorite standbys, so it was worth making a chance). And I had no idea how much nutrition I was getting from things like coffee or certain herbs and spices.

    • Senior Attorney

      I went pescatarian in January on the advice of my doctor and it’s been great. Not hard at all. We get Blue Apron so that’s three dinners a week (plus I save half for lunch the next day) and I just checked the box for no meat and no poultry. And beyond that we’re eating a lot of pasta and curries and such. I think it’s been a blessing that this is happening when I have a lot of time to cook and explore new recipes.

      Oh, and my weight is down 10 lbs, too.

      • Senior Attorney

        Also I am a big fan of the Beyond burgers, which are now available in the grocery store. So when Blue Apron has a burger option I order it and Hubby eats the meat and I sub in a Beyond burger.

        And also? When the pandemic eases and we go back to eating in people’s homes again, I plan to not dictate what other people have to cook for me. If I’m asked I might say I prefer pescatarian but I will eat whatever you put in front of me and I will like it. I think flexibility is a wonderful thing and perfection can be the enemy of progress.

        • anon

          Lifelong veggie here and the Beyond meat burgers are now at Costco! My DH, who likes meat (but doesn’t eat a ton of it) even loves them and we’ve been grilling burgers 2x/week. It’s great.

      • Pure Imagination

        I’m interested in becoming a pescatarian too. I’m probably not going to make it a formal thing, but I already enjoy fish more than other types of meat and wild-caught fish has a much lower carbon footprint (although there are serious overfishing issues to consider as well). I could easily see myself further reducing meat consumption (about 3x a week right now) without too much effort. The bigger issue for me is going to be reducing dairy since I love cheese.

        • Senior Attorney

          Yeah cheese is hard for me, especially when you eliminate meat. But again, progress not perfection. Honestly I’ve been surprised at how easy it’s been for me to forego the animal protein component altogether and just be vegetarian most days.

    • Anonymous

      we aren’t totally vegan but have naturally found our household gravitating away from regular meat, and especially red meat. without really trying i would say we’re down to 0-1 red meat meal a week and 2 chicken/fish meals and are happy to reduce it further. it’s been interesting during the pandemic because we have felt ZERO of the anxiety about not being able to find meat. as long as we can get eggs which we buy from a neighbor and some sort of cheese, we don’t feel deprived in any way.

      we also watched the gamechangers doc which was on netflix on a lark but i actually found it really compelling. i didn’t switch to full vegan but it definitely made me consciously want to choose to reduce animal products.

    • Coach Laura

      This is not focused on the planet aspect of Pescetarianism but instead for health, Alzheimer’s, cancer, heart disease and diabetes prevention and even recovery after getting those diseases. It’s called “The Longevity Diet” by a University of Southern California PhD Valter Longo. He’s supported it with a lot of scientific research. It’s vegan plus small amounts of fish. You could of course still eat some cheese or eggs but the idea is lots of vegetables, low fat, good fat from nuts and olive oil and high nutrients, less junk food.

      I switched about a month ago and while I still miss a good burger and cheese-laden pizza, I’ve not been miserable. I may cheat occasionally but I see a burger as being once every 4-6 months and turkey once a year at Thanksgiving.

    • Bee

      This isn’t specific to your health sources question, OP, but I would highly highly recommend the book “Killing It” by Camas Davis to anyone thinking about switching to a vegetarian/meat reduced diet. It’s a memoir about the author apprenticing at a butcher in France and coming back to found a non profit around meat sourcing education. It completely changed the way I think about my meat consumption and I switched to a significantly meat-reduced diet after finishing it, when I had previously never given a thought to changing. I basically just don’t keep meat in the house, but will have it on special occasions–it’s been a really easy balance once I set that guardrail. But I’m also single so I don’t have to factor in kid/partner preferences which I know can be an issue.

      For exploring, I signed up for Hello Fresh’s vegetarian meals and have kept a little binder of the recipes I liked. It’s helped a ton to round out my vegetarian cooking, which, I’ll be the first to admit, is super pasta/rice focused.

    • Betsy

      I buy basically all our meat, and a lot of our produce, from a local farm that uses regenerative agriculture practices. I’m not sure I can sum it up in a way that does it justice, but regenerative agriculture practices result in farmland storing huge amounts of carbon instead of releasing it. It involves a lot of methods like crop rotation, cover crops, pasture rotation, etc. Obviously it’s more costly than buying meat and vegetables at the grocery store – however the people who work on the farm are treated fairly and the animals have just one bad day.

      I’m not saying this is the solution to everything – obviously there are lots of people who can’t afford to make that choice. But also there’s lot of people who could afford to buy that way if it was a priority for them. We are definitely middle class so there are sacrifices we make in other ways to afford to buy higher quality food, but I really value eating this way both for my own health as well as community health and the environment. It definitely results in us eating a bit less meat, and equally importantly we cut waaaay down on food waste when we switched to eating this way. Meat (and agriculture in general) doesn’t have to be terrible for environment, we’ve just created a system in the last 50 years that causes it to be.

        • Betsy

          The farm I shop at is called Brookford Farm, in NH, but there are so many out there! Not everyone necessarily uses the term regenerative agriculture. Diversified and Carbon Farming are other common terms that get to the same concept. If you search any of those terms and your region I am sure you will find lots of options from tiny little farms to more moderately sized operations!

      • Anon

        Thank you for sharing this; it’s a new term (regenerative agriculture) to me. Health issues have restricted my diet so much along other dimensions that I have ended up eating more meat than I used to (which has worked out well for me in terms of health). I currently shop to support heritage breed livestock conservation (something I care a lot about), and I have noticed that the local farms I’ve visited are just teeming with wildlife in a way totally unfamiliar to me for farms. I grew up thinking of farms as basically fields of monoculture being sprayed by people in gas masks or the kinds of giant, reeking barns that make you wish you had a gas mask.

    • Anon New Yorker

      I haven’t read the article yet, but I eat very little meat. I was a vegetarian for 15 years and I didn’t like how much it limited my options when traveling and eating out. I started eating fish, then meat, about 5 years ago. Now, I find that vegetarianism and veganism has become so common that it is much less of a big deal. I still get an occasional meat dish when eating out (ok it’s just soup dumplings but I ate A LOT of soup dumplings in the before times) but there’s usually a veggie option that seems more appealing to me. I almost never cook meat at home anymore since meat substitutes (beef crumbles and sausages) work just as well in the recipes that I like anyway — I’m not naturally a meat lover though.

  16. Anonymous

    For those who pursued fertility treatments and/or adoption, how did you decide
    which option to pursue? If you chose not to have kids, what factors did did you consider?

    • busybee

      Weird, just last night my husband and I discussed whether we want to pursue IVF or adoption, as it’s become clear that is the choice we have to make now. We will try IVF first because our desire to have biological children is extremely strong. We very much want a child who is biologically made from us. If several rounds of IVF don’t work, we will pursue adoption. We want to be able to raise a baby; we would not want to adopt an older child. I know that many people have adopted older children and it has worked out wonderfully for all involved, but it’s not for us. We understand that means adoption will be an uphill road for us. Before anyone attacks me for 1. wanting biological children and 2. wanting a baby, consider the privilege many of you have had to be able to get pregnant and have children naturally, and consider whether you want to attack someone for desperately wanting that same experience.

    • AnonIVF

      We pursued fertility treatment after 6 mos of trying w/o success (I was 38 at the time). Turned out my husband had a partial blockage in his prostate and so our only option for biological children was IVF with ICSI. I’m currently pregnant with our first child, and we have enough euploid embroys frozen that I’m comfortable that we’ll be able to “complete” our family with as many additional children as we choose to have (currently thinking 2-3 total kids).

      If biological hadn’t worked for us, we would have pursued adoption – we talked about this before we even saw the doctor – but we both felt strongly about biological children if possible.

      I will note that money was not an issue. We paid about $40K out of pocket and insurance covered the rest (about another $40K).

    • anon

      Fertility treatment because adoption remains a highly discriminatory process for some people, and we had several “strikes” against us (queer couple, one with a major disability, one in mid-40’s). We probably could have made it happen with a lot of extra legwork, but the prospect of being told “oh no, you can’t adopt from that country at all because of who you love” was too enraging to deal with.

    • Anon

      We went through two rounds of IVF, plus I froze eggs when I was 35. We started TTC when I was 39, I had one miscarriage and decided there was no time to waste, so I went straight to IVF with PGS. My first son was born at 40 and I’m now 41 and pregnant with my second (from my frozen eggs). Neither of us were interested in adoption, and since my husband’s tests all came back normal, the issue for us was most likely my age. If we had not been able to conceive with IVF, I might have considered donor eggs, but there’s a good chance we’d be childfree and I’d have adopted a bunch of rescue dogs. It was very very important to me to have a biological child – I make no apologies for that. In all, we spent about $100k, though, which still makes me slightly ill to think about since this process is free for 95%+ of the world.

      • Anonymous

        Don’t kid yourself. Most people in the world can’t access this level of care at all. Do you seriously think India, China, and Africa are providing this for free to anyone who needs it?

        • Panda Bear

          I thought she meant that it’s ‘free’ in the sense that many (most?) people are lucky to be able to conceive without intervention. Although I’m not sure if it’s ture that 95% of people who want kids are able to easily conceive. Still, I can understand how frustrating it must feel to spend so much money, time (and deal with potential heartbreak if it doesn’t work) on something that seems to literally happen by accident to lots of people.

          • Anon

            Yes, what Panda said. Conception is free for the vast vast majority of the world (through intercourse) and that is what I meant. Obviously fertility treatments are not.

      • Anonymous

        I’m in the middle of this discussion with my DH too. We got married really late almost 43 for me and almost 50 for him. We tried IVF and it didn’t work and a (very kind) RE old us that it just wasn’t worth pursuing given my age. We went back and forth over using donor eggs. About a month ago he told me that he thought he was too old to going through the newborn phase. I got it but my heart kind of broke too. We now trying to figure out if we want to go forward with adoption. Adopting an older child would be fine with me. I’m not so sure about him. It just seems so unfair that I waited so long to find my person (my 2 prior serious relationships ended because neither one wanted kids) and now it just may not be possible for me to be a mom. I somehow woke up one day and that part of life had passed me by.

        • anonymous

          You are not too old to go through the newborn phase, that’s ridiculous. Will it be more exhausting than when you were 23? Sure. But I’m 41 and considering a third kid (via donor eggs) and I wouldn’t let age stop me from pursuing the family I would like (within reason, but 43 is within reason).

          • Anonymous

            Not me, DH told me he thought he was too old. Something changed now that he is in his 50s. It’s not where he was when we were dating or when we were taking about getting married but it’s where he is now. And as much as I don’t like it, I have to figure out a way to accept it and where to go from here. I’m not sure how to do that.

          • Anon

            I feel for your husband. I’m mid 50s and I know I’m too old for the newborn phase. My niece has had a couple of babies now and I love them to pieces but when I’ve had them overnight I am so, so glad when they leave!!

          • Senior Attorney

            I think that is something everybody definitely gets to decide for themselves. I had my son when his dad was in his 40s and I was in my late 20s, and when I got to be the age his dad was when he was born, I was all “holy cow no way could I deal with a baby now!”

        • Ms B

          I know multiple people who have done successful older child (meaning over age 2) adoptions, including people who have done sibling group adoptions. If you want to parent, go for it!

        • anon

          I understand these feelings completely – like when I stop and think about it sometimes, I can’t comprehend how my entire 30s went by without me getting married and TTC, when I always pictured myself as a young married mom in my late 20s/early 30s. Hang in there, whatever you and your husband decide to do.

      • Anon

        Yeah this is definitely not free in 95% of the world. I live in Canada – Ontario to be specific – where most medical procedures are free. It is not free here. You get one funded round of IVF per lifetime (for the procedures only, NOT including the $5,000 worth of medication, that is out of pocket), and this is a new policy direction within the last ten years.

      • Anon

        Ah, I just posted from Canada. But you know what? Reading comp fail! I think you are trying to say that conception is free for people without fertility challenges! I totally get you and sympathize. I’m a lesbian…and based on tests, I don’t even have fertility challenges! Just no biological way to conceive naturally given my circumstances. So fertility treatments it is.

        • Anon

          Yes, I posted above, I should have been more clear. I meant that natural conception is how most people have kids and that is free. 95% may be pushing it but I suspect it is still a very high number.

          • Anon

            I think its much much lower. Something like 25% of couples have trouble conceiving. Many of them are eventually able to conceive but it’s definitely not true that 95% of people can have a baby without at least seeking medical advice (even if they don’t need the same level of intervention as IVF).

          • Pure Imagination

            Correction, 90% after a year and 95% after two years. Just dug up an old grad school document because I was curious.

          • anon

            Yep, Pure’s number sounds right to me. I think like 1% of American babies are born through IVF, so 90% would make sense.

          • anon

            Also, not sure where you got that 25% of couples have trouble conceiving number – according to resolve, it’s about 1/8 couples (so about 12%) who report infertility issues, and of course at least some of those people are able to conceive without uber expensive procedures like IVF.

    • Patricia Gardiner

      Fertility treatment for two major reasons:
      – Some insurance coverage meant it was much less expensive than adoption
      – After reading about many horror stories of adoptions that didn’t go through, 5+ year wait times, and foster-to-adopts that fell through at the last minute (sometimes after months/years with the would-be adoptive family), we were leery of heartbreak

      Note that I am a huge proponent of adoption with several adopted family members. It seems like it is much more difficult now than it used to be.

      • Anonanonanon

        This was us. We were open to either, but fertility treatment was “easier” and less expensive. I am a lawyer and also helped with an adoption that fell through at the last minute, and that was awful and I didn’t even experience it as the hopeful parent. But I would do adoption and would have done it first choice if the process was easier.

    • Ms B

      Third generation to form or complete a family by adoption here – that means that The Kid, my brother, and his birth father all joined their families by adoption. My BFF and business partners also completed their families via adoption – in the latter case, with a “surprise” pregnancy afterwards despite being told that secondary infertility absolutely would prevent that from occurring. Adoption was always on the table for us.

      That said, The Hubs and I did want to try for biokids and we did. During that process and then when it failed, knowing that adoption was not just “an” option, but a good option, really comforted us.

      Now, having had a successful adoption experience (and seeing that The Kid is “ours” every time he looks me in the eye and says “FINE”), I can say that I would not try IVF if we had to do it over again. IVF was almost as expensive as domestic infant adoption and the adoption process resulted in parenting (notwithstanding a disruption that we had, meaning a placement that did not result in a finalized adoption), while IVF did not.

      There are lots of factors to consider and you need to evaluate what you are willing and able to do. I can tell you from the other side that adoption is a lot different now than when my brother joined the family 40 years ago and that a lot of what you will hear out there is noise and not necessarily an accurate representation of the process. If you want to post a burner e-mail, I am happy to tell you more.

      • ANON

        My adopted children are well into their 20s and are very much “our” children. Would definitely skip IVF if I were to go back in time.

    • Anon

      We pursued domestic infant adoption and IVF at the same time, and IVF worked first (knock on wood … 31 weeks today.) This required finding an adoption agency that would let us proceed in that manner – some make you promise you’re done with fertility treatments.

      We were told domestic infant adoption would take about 2 years, so we were fairly early into that process when I hit the IVF jackpot and had a successful implantation in the first round at age 42. (This was a surprise – given my age, I did not think IVF was likely to succeed, but I was willing to do no more than one round of egg retrieval, and of the 35 eggs retrieved, a single embryo remained viable after 5-days.)

      If IVF had not worked, we were in process of scheduling a home-study for adoption and putting together our profile to share with birth moms. I was open to foster-adoption but my husband was not, so we did not pursue that route although I understand it may have been faster, particularly if you were willing to consider older kids.

    • Anon

      I’m in a Zoom meeting at the moment so I can only give you a short answer but private adoption can be quick or long and difficult. I’ve heard there are about 40 waiting families for every available healthy baby. You have to do a lot of research to find an ethical way of going about this. Some agencies are less ethical than others. I’m working with a private attorney that is working with an out of state private attorney. We have been waiting a year and a half and only had 2 interviews with potential families and one match that fell through because the woman had lost the pregnancy early on and didn’t tell anyone.

      We also tried 3 IUIs and one round of IVF that obviously did not work. I had a really hard time with coming off the hormones from it and I got extremely depressed. I don’t think it was just from it not working.

      We are still working with the adoption attorney but seriously realizing we may just have to do the child-free life. We already have the rescue pets.

      • Ms B

        I agree that timeframes can vary widely, particularly if you are limited in terms of what you will accept on race, family history, location and/or budget. We only considered domestic adoption and our evaluation was that “agency” adoption processes were faster than attorney-based processes, but YMMV.

        We used a well-known national agency; it was about 16 months from “going active” to our successful placement (note – and only about 90 days to our disrupted placement, with one other placement offered that we turned down at about 7 months). OTOH, we know two other families who used the same agency with similar parameters as we had and they were about 45 and 75 days from going active to successful placement.

      • Anon

        I also want to add, despite popular belief, it is not like you get put on a waitlist and then wait your turn for a baby. Expectant moms are given a stack of parent profiles, everyone currently available that meets the mom’s and your criteria. Then they pick who they like best. That is why you can get matched in a day or never.

        Ms. B, was yours the same? Also, I’m sorry to hear that you had an abruption. At what stage were you when that occurred?

        • Ms B

          On our first placement, we were selected by the birthmother during her second trimester and notified early in her third trimester. We agreed to a semi-open adoption (and I suspect would have been very happy with the end result if things had worked out). We were in regular contact from the placement through delivery.

          At that point, we traveled and took custody on discharge from the hospital. Unfortunately, the birth father changed his mind on consenting to the placement, even after a round of mediation, we think due more to his mother’s feelings than his own. After consultation with the agency’s attorney (and using our other resources – the agency attorney works for the agency, not for you), we decided not to get into a contest that could last months and relinquished custody to a social worker about 48 hours after we took custody. It was a terrible day. The Hubs and I proceeded to take a few days off on the way home to recover and then re-entered the pool the next week.

          Note that our agency provided a “completion guarantee” where they refunded the large lump sum paid to them on placement (basically everything other than travel and supply costs) and we had our money back within two weeks. Not all agencies provide this, but it was a big point for us in selecting that agency.

          We were offered another placement about 60 days later. The agency knew that it was outside of our medical parameters, but presented it anyway. This happens a lot and we were willing to listen because we have friends who are ped and child psych doctors who were willing to review files on short notice. On their advice, we declined that placement, although the location was favorable – only about 30 minutes away.

          After that we waited. Our eventual placement was for a fully closed situation at the birthmother’s request. Our understanding was that she did not look at profiles and did not want to meet us. We always suspected that our agency felt badly over the disruption and picked us because we handled it (relatively) well, but no way to prove that.

          Based on our experience and our friends’ situations there definitely are things that are more attractive for potential placements. A lot depends upon what the birthparents want in terms of race, religion, age, location, family situation (SAH parent or not/other kids/single parent/same-sex partners, etc.), common interests, etc. Professional help on the profile and video can make a big difference. We were fortunate that my BFF had been through the process about two years before we went live and she had worked with a facilitator (sort of a consultant to find placements or improve your profile); she passed all of the good advice she had gotten on to us. We continue to pass on her tips!

    • Duchess

      We are currently going through fertility treatments. We had our egg retrieval back in March and (fingers crossed) should be transferring our one embryo in mid-June. We are fortunate that my parents (who are wealthy) are buying for the vast majority of our treatments because I have no insurance coverage for any of this. We’ve signed up to do this twice, so if this transfer doesn’t take, we’ll do it again and then probably try to accept that we’ll be the best dog parents and aunt and uncle.

      As for why we chose IVF rather than adoption… It’s at least partly (largely) selfish. I want to see myself and my husband in our child. I also have had the most vivid dreams of being pregnant, and it is heartbreaking to wake up and realize I may never get to experience that. And then I get to relive that heartbreak with every negative test and every period. We also have a lot of friends that have done foster-to-adopt with poor experiences ranging from heartbreak to physical violence, and I just don’t know if we’re up for all that. We’ll see if my tune changes if IVF doesn’t work out for us…

      • Duchess

        Wow, buying was a very unfortunate typo… I meant paying, but that just comes off pretty gross. I have very complicated feelings about my parents paying for all this that I am working through with a therapist who specializes in fertility issues. There’s a lot for me to unpack and, haha, this is a little meta…

    • Anon

      Not me but my close friend and her husband adopted a preschool age child from the foster care system, and she has had so many horrible, sad issues with him that I get resentful when people say “just adopt!” as if it’s that easy.

      It took her years to get matched with a child, so much bureaucracy to do so, and then as he got older it became very clear that he had fetal alcohol syndrome, which the social workers knew about and kept from my friend! (All proven in a lawsuit.)

      It has been one heartbreak after another for my friend and her husband and this poor child. This was more than she expressly said she would take on when she started the foster/adopt process, and she feels her adopted son would have been better off in an expert care situation. She loves him of course, so it’s too late to do anything about it, but his care has nearly bankrupted them (hence the lawsuit). It’s too early to tell whether it will actually destroy her marriage, but that’s how she feels at the moment.

    • Anon

      We are 38 and 42 and decided to skip fertility treatments. After eight months of trying (at 36 and 40), we went and got tested. We did all the tests and…there’s nothing wrong with either of us. My eggs are good, hormones are good, no blockages, etc. My husband’s swimmers are good. Our tests all came back good, not just fine. I say the following with absolutely NO comment on anyone else’s choices: we’re very religious, and as individuals, long before we met each other, had always been open to adoption, and so we figured that if everything is in good working order and we haven’t conceived, then maybe God (or the universe, if that’s your flavor) was telling us to adopt.

      We looked into adopting from foster care first. I felt really called to do that. But our county is proudly anti-adoption, meaning they’ll do whatever they can to return a child to a biological family, even when it’s beyond clear that that family will never be a healthy one and a child will suffer lasting emotional (or other) damage if they go back to them. We were in the process of exploring foster care adoption when I took a pro bono child custody case that will haunt me for the rest of the life. It’s one of those cases where things look ok on the surface, but when you get into it, things are horribly, horribly wrong. That case was representative of what kids coming into foster care in our area will have experienced, and I had to tap out. I knew I wasn’t up to dealing with that level of trauma. I still pray for the child in that case.

      So we’re in process to adopt a child from China. There’s a website called rainbowkids.com that lists orphans all over the world who need homes. We narrowed down the countries we qualified for (some countries you have to be X age, or never have been divorced, or Y or Z) and then looked at Rainbow Kids. I was scrolling through the listings (which is such a surreal thing) and saw our son’s photo and his description and I KNEW he was our son. Just knew it.

      And yes, adopting from China is a giant cluster right now. We should have had our son by July. Now because embassies and all that are closed, our paperwork probably won’t even get to China until August. I guess the delay is ok since schools here are all mixed up, but waiting is still hard.

      The adoption process is a pain in the neck – just an incredible pain in the neck – and it’s expensive. About $12k in administrative fees (not counting travel costs). Though one round of IVF would have been $15k for us with only a 20% chance, where with this we spend $12k and have a guaranteed child at the end of it.

      There are also some bigger scale thoughts about adopting. –That child is already here on this earth and needs a family. –In our child’s case, he’s 10 and is SO smart – gets straight As in school – and wants to be a teacher. China doesn’t typically educate orphans beyond middle school, so our gifted son would live his life as a factory worker or a food delivery man – what a waste of a life’s talent. –We could spend $X on IVF rounds or we could spend $Y adopting and pour the excess into his college fund.

      Adoption isn’t for everybody. And I think because IVF has become so commonplace, the adoption community doesn’t see as many couples without children. (There are lots of religious fundamentalists adopting their 8th child or what have you. Hey, you do you.) Like my caseworker wished me a happy mother’s day in the same email she told me our paperwork would be delayed four months and I wanted to reach through the screen and punch her.

      I’m happy to answer more questions. It’s a big decision and a long journey either way.

  17. Not an Accountant

    I am the trustee on a grantor trust created last year consisting of only my parent’s home, which does not generate any income. I received a notice from the IRS that the trust needs to file a form 1041. Do I just file a form with zeros down the column? Any help appreciated!

    • Anon

      Yes, hire an accountant or estate planning attorney to fix this. It sounds like the EIN may have been applied for incorrectly and needs to be corrected.

    • Anon Probate Atty

      You probably can file a 1041 with zeroes. I don’t typically handle trust tax returns, but I know that some lawyers/CPAs elect to obtain EINs for Grantor Trust, although they’re not necessary, and then complete a 1041. IRS sounds confused here, so best to just give them what they ask for.

      • AZCPA

        I highly recommend against this. You’ll be doing it every year, creating confusion, and gaining no benefit. The other advice here is good, hire a CPA to fix this.

  18. anon

    When do you think you would feel comfortable flying again? With toddlers? I think I would be comfortable this summer because I can be vigilant, wash my hands, not touch my face, and not go to the restroom. But, I have little kids and I can’t trust them with most anything! Our families are all out-of-state and I got to thinking, if we want to see them this summer, maybe we should rent an RV? We would be going from the east coast to the mid west and maybe even to California if all goes well. Is this crazy?! I have only ever driven a compact car and one of my kids is really prone to motion sickness and I am not sure what to do about car seats…but its fun to dream.

    • Anonymous

      We recently bought a tiny trailer because we like to get out of town often and are not ready for planes and hotels. I thought my husband was crazy when he suggested it because we are not really outdoors people. We have taken it out a few times already and it is great fun. There was a bit of learning curve but it is easily towed behind our small SUV. And it is a huge bonus to have your own bathroom when you need to stop for gas!

    • Anonymous

      I already have, it was fine. The airport was empty though so I just didn’t touch anything and I was very distant from anyone else while waiting. I flew first class where I did have to sit next to someone, but he wore a mask the whole time. Two things that stood out to me were that: everyone had to remove their mask at the TSA checkpoint and the agent touched my phone (boarding pass) and license as well as the people before and after me in line without changing gloves… I’ll be moving back to a paper boarding pass.

    • Anon

      Yeah if it was just me I think I’d be comfortable flying now – I would wear a mask and be super vigilant about not touching my face or getting close to people. Toddlers is a whole different ballgame though. I don’t want to say “not until a vaccine” because that might never happen or might take years and I don’t see myself staying off airplanes forever. But not this summer, and almost certainly not this winter assuming the predicted second wave happens. I am very tentatively planning plane trips for summer 2021.

    • Anonymous

      I’m concerned about getting stuck wherever I’m traveling to. Everything changes so quickly. The restrictions are getting increasingly aggressive. I’m not sure the anxiety of not knowing whether I can make it home is worth the benefit of travel for pleasure right now.

      • Anon

        I agree, and would not go abroad for this reason, but if you’re in the continental US you can always rent a car and drive home.

    • anon

      If you get to the point that you’re comfortable with air travel generally, I would not let the toddler hold you back. Yes, they touch things. Wash hands when you can, and use hand sanitizer when you can’t. Try baby wearing or a stroller to transport kids through the airport and keep them more or less confined, if it makes you more comfortable. Wipe down the seat and area around the seat when you board the plane.

      The CDC now says that the coronavirus is “not spread easily” by touching surfaces. It’s mainly droplets in the air. The biggest concern I’d have with toddlers would be mask wearing, especially since many airlines are requiring masks now. I’d practice at home and see what their tolerance for it is, especially over long periods.

      FWIW, I think an RV sounds crazy only because one of your kids is prone to motion sickness. That would be a miserable trip if you couldn’t figure out a solution to that.

    • Anon

      My friend posted a picture on FB of her somewhere in public with her kid and he was adorably wearing oven mitts. I don’t recall where she had to go but she was worried about him touching everything so strapped oven mitts on him so he couldn’t touch/pick up stuff. It cracked me up.

    • Anon

      i have twin toddlers and just took them to the pediatrician. my very non-alarmist, very calm, wonderful doctor told me not to take them on a plane

    • Anonymous

      We had two big trips planned this summer and winter be taking either. One was to visit family in their 70s with risk factors, and we really don’t want to expose them to anything we might pick up while traveling (or that I might pick up at work, as I work for a hospital system and may need to go back in before our trip was planned). I really have no idea when we’ll feel comfortable to travel and whether it would make a difference if were seeing elderly family or not. Kids are young toddler and early elementary. I’m worried we won’t see my spouse’s parents or either of our siblings for 18 months.

  19. Rawr

    Lord give me strength. This average white guy is incorectly mansplaining me my own project, he even referenced an ‘inspiring presentation’ he saw a few months ago. It was my presentation.

    • Anonymous

      Thank him for his kind words and offer to send him your deck from that presentation.

      • pugsnbourbon

        +1. Absolutely do this. Preferably live on Zoom where you can see his face as it clicks into place.

    • Anon

      This is a similar story to the origin story of “mansplaining.”

      The author of “Men Explain Things to Me” was at a party and met a man who asked her what she did. She said what her field was and he talked over her, going on and on about a “very important” book about her field that she must read. Which she had written, but could not get a word in edgewise to tell him so.

      • Monday

        I was about to say this! Better yet, the mansplainer had not even read the book, he had only read a review of it. She and her friend had to repeat 4-5 times that she herself was the author before he processed it.

        • Rawr

          I had no clue about this author! I’ll look it up. Unfortunately due to the nature of my job I can’t be salty with the man as he’s external to my organization. So I just had to let him incorrectly ramble.

          • Anon New Yorker

            Rebecca Solnit is great; I’ve read several of her books including “men explaining things to me” and I highly recommend them!

      • Anon

        “If you were actually as familiar with that book as you claim to be, you would know I wrote it.”

        I have literally said something similar to some obnoxious prat once, similar situation.

    • Anon Probate Atty

      That’s hilarious. Last week I did a video call with potential clients who asked their financial planner to sit in. Apparently his way of justifying his presence on the call was to repeatedly second-guess my recommendations. I shut him down pretty quickly each time, but via the camera, caught myself making a disgusted face about the 3rd time he talked over me (and was wrong). My impression was that the clients found it amusing, so no harm no foul I guess, but it was maddening at the time. I think he was about 10 years younger than me. Eyeroll.

  20. midwest solo atty

    Anyone have a go-to spot for professional thank you business cards? Would be used for referrals. I’m an estate planning attorney and receive a lot of referrals from financial advisors and insurance providers.

      • Anonymous

        You can buy “used” (i.e. bought and sometimes opened but unwritten) Crane on Etsy. It’s much cheaper!

    • Anon

      For all thank-yous, including this type of situation, I use the same cards – these navy bordered cards with my name on them. I don’t use specific “business” ones with my firm logo or anything. I like that they are personal, but also classic and certainly professional looking. If I needed to, I could slip a business card in, but sounds like the folks you’re thanking already have your contact info.
      https://www.americanstationery.com/navy-hand-bordered-correspondence-cards.html

  21. Instagram

    After resisting forever, I think I’m finally going to set up an Instagram account. Recommendations for who to follow? I like outdoors and nature, and would love to follow some mid and plus sized posters. Anything else I should know about it?

    • Gail the Goldfish

      Natgeo for nature/outdoors, and I follow several national geographic photographer’s individual accounts-frans lanting (@franslanting), Beverly Joubert (@beverlyjoubert), Steve Winter (@stevewinterphoto), and Babak Tafreshi (@babaktafreshi)(mostly night photography)

    • Lilac

      Follow people who are into your hobbies! Mine are old homes, cats and sewing so idk of those apply to you, but there are instagramers for every niche hobby.

        • Lilac

          I love both, possibly too much! I also follow a lot of individuals who are renovating their own homes, like Daniel Kanter.

    • Anon for This

      The National Park Service’s account is more funny than you would think!

    • emeralds

      @unlikelyhikers sounds like it’s right up your alley, and would be a great resource for finding other folks to follow. @pattiegonia brings a smile to my face like every day. I will cosign the National Parks Service + your favorite national park(s).

    • Lobby-est

      Overhead_photography

      Jean_jullien

      Local museums, places I look forward to visiting….

    • Mal

      Yes! You sound like me :)
      1. beesbalcony – woman in Australia who is visited by native critters daily on her balcony
      2. Your local zoos, botanical gardens, arboretums, natural museums will all likely have accounts and great content
      3. National Park Service, Smithsonian, US Dept of the Interior
      4. 11 Honore is a plus size luxury retailer – lots of pretty clothes! Also Universal Standard, and the Savage X Fenty account if you’re into fun lingerie.
      5. Mid/plus posters: girlwithcurves, the12ishstyle, lingerieisforeverybody, meridethmorgan, audreypatriciaw, bonjourclem, jessicajadeyoga, mademoisellemodeuse, ohhhhhhhhhoney, candicehuffine, gabifresh, aidybryant, huntermcgrady, nicolebyer, ashleygraham, mindykaling, lizzobeeating,
      6. caenhillcc: A recent discovery – a precious farm in the UK that does a “good morning” video every day

    • Anon

      I LOVE thedailyjames – it started with a crow? they named James who visits them every day, but they’ve added a whole menagerie and they volunteer at the zoo. Just a fascinating account.

    • Coach Laura

      I follow Australia for gorgeous photos, AndyAustinPhoto for photos of adventuresome places; MariaKillam for decor; national_park_photography, sunsetmagazine and southernliving, apartmenttherapy, realsimple for decor; pinchofyum, cookinglight, minimalistbaker, smittenkitchen, thekitchn, nytimescooking for cooking; nytimestravel for travel (ha!); reesewitherspoon; mariashriver; jenniferanniston; halleberry; and Ciara. Oh, and Mick Jagger!

  23. Anon

    What is the best way to save online articles and publications for reference purposes? I should probably know this, but I am a bit old school.

    • Panda Bear

      In grad school I generally used EndNote, but there might be some better cloud based resources out there these days.

      • anon

        Mendeley does what Endnote does, just nicer and for free. I’ve mostly used it for pdfs (scientific papers), but it looks like there is an importer plugin for your browser, so you can clip websites as well. It has a plugin for MS Word, to insert and format citations easily, if you want to reference these publications in your work.

  24. Not Southern / Conservative

    I’m sorry if I’m poking the bear again, but I saw some comments about how awful / stupid southerners are for opening back up and I think it’s ridiculous. I am liberal and educated from the NE, ‘detest’ is not a strong enough word for how I feel about Trump, have followed all guidelines and own 7 masks personally, and I am all in favor of opening up. I think some places could actually do so safely quicker as long as there is hospital capacity and I think that if we want people to follow guidelines about capacity, distancing, and masks, opening sooner could drive more compliance. I HATE how opening up and “the economy” vs. “public health” has become politicized so that it’s now liberal vs. conservative to open vs. close. And I say this as someone who is non-white and recognizes I’ve made my own stereotypical comments about the south before and would personally never live there.

    • Anon

      Yeah I don’t understand what you’re trying to accomplish here. I am liberal, educated, from the NE, now living in the South, and I think you’re just as bad for needing to clarify that you would never personally live here.

    • Mal

      I tend to scroll past the argumentative threads on this site, so I may miss a lot of the “bear-poking,” but I get what you’re saying. I’m from and currently living in the south, and feel many folks who have never lived here have misunderstood ideas about what it’s really like and what kind of folks live here, and that can be pretty frustrating. (For example, I have family from/in Wisconsin, and they have very similar, if not stronger conservative views. Don’t know how the south seems to get most of the anti-conservative rage.)
      As someone who definitely leans liberal while living among many who are not, I find myself seeing exactly how this has become a false dichotomy of open/closed liberal/conservative. What I have seen is that individuals have been deciding for themselves what guidelines they will follow, and whether or not places are open, they will do what they want – north or south. And that’s frustrating for many. People are scared, unsure of the future, worried for their livelihoods, etc., and for many waiting and doing “nothing” around is so, so hard.
      Also, I may feel slightly different about this, as an essential worker, who has been out and about almost every day – the world is still running and operating – many of us are not shut in our homes all the time, and so maybe entertaining more options than straight-up quarantine seems less scary to me.
      These are just thoughts, don’t know what to conclude, if anything.
      Also, it’s highly unlikely I’d ever live far north – way to damn cold. ;)

    • Anon

      What’s going on in the country is driven largely by class. Class is closely tied to educational attainment. It’s not a north vs. south thing, it’s not even solely an urban vs. rural thing – it’s an educated vs. not thing. It just so happens that southern states have historically not contributed as much as New England states to public education. (The upper class of southerners – who are not on tv talking about tornadoes and trailers and storming legislatures – often go to private schools unless they happen to live in a rare enclave of good public schools.)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_educational_attainment
      https://www.governing.com/topics/education/gov-state-education-spending-revenue-data.html

      • Mal

        This is very, very true – appreciate you bringing this distinction to light. I found myself in the middle of these two worlds growing up, as an upper-middle class white girl in a large urban school district who went to our local public school, which was mostly lower income and mostly nonwhite. Most of the other white kids in my neighborhood went to private schools. Of course, the affluent, mostly-white suburbs are a whole other story.

      • Anon

        But in the South, you don’t need as much education to get the same jobs as people up North.

        • Anon

          Da fuq? Please provide some evidence for this. ‘Cause I must have missed where I didn’t need to bother with law school if I wanted to be a lawyer in, say, Georgia or go to college to be a teacher in, say, the Carolinas.

          • Anon

            If you are not aware of the fact that outside of medicine, law, and teaching, most professions do not strictly need a specific degree, then I can’t help you.

        • anon

          Ha! That’s probably true! Less competitive talent market I suppose….having worked in the NE and the South, both for many years I would say that the NE is definitely more demanding!

    • Seventh Sister

      As someone who grew up in a Southern-ish place and has spent most of my adult life in a blue state, there is no shortage of racist, ignorant people even in the most liberal city. It is interesting how little criticism there has been of Western states that actually never had a statewide stay at home order (NE, WY, UT) . Open or closed is somewhat relative – my state has allowed childcare centers to remain open the whole time, while certain news networks would have you believe we’re chained to our beds and force-fed quinoa by the Politically Correct Police.

  25. Anon

    Someone posted the other day that she was wearing her Hermès scarves for zoom calls. I have one Hermès scarf (ah the lure of duty free) and I am not sure how to style it for a zoom. It’s the standard square size. Any suggestions?

  26. Paging Ergonomic Chair Seeker

    I posted a generic rec for Duoback supports in yesterday’s post. Google or Amazon should bring up some links in your area! I used to love their swivel office chairs but they are $$ in the US.

  27. Anon

    Do you second guess every interaction you have in this era of covid or have you moved past that? As in — oh I had to interact with a grocery/service worker and their mask was below their nose, was I 6 ft away? Maybe it was only 4 ft. Or do you just not worry about it anymore if you have some kind of face cover and a reasonable distance?

    • PolyD

      I don’t worry if I’m wearing a mask, the person not wearing the mask isn’t sneezing or coughing, and I’m only in their presence for a couple of minutes. Didn’t someone here who knows about contact tracing mention that to be considered a “contact” you need to be in the presence of an infected person for at least 10-15 minutes?

      I think a lot of people are driving themselves crazy with the what ifs. Plus I think we all indulge in magical thinking that if only we and everyone else does everything right, this will all go away. I wish it would, but that’s not reality.

      • AnonATL

        Yep. I have just been letting it go. I wear masks out in public, so even if others aren’t I just have to let it go because I have no control over them and spend very very little time in their presence.
        It’s like when DH and I go to the park, and someone parked next to us starts a friendly brief conversation from a few feet away (maybe not 6+ but close). The humanity is so much more worth it to my brain than worrying about the germs. Granted I would feel very different if someone was right in my face or sneezed/coughed noticeably on me.
        I’ve been thinking a lot about all the germ load research lately. It makes me feel a lot better about casual interactions and going about my life in my low-ish caseload area. There was an article on Vox (maybe??) about the amount they were able to collect from sick people coughing directly into petri dishes from 8 inches away.

    • Anonymous

      I am not co-breathing the same air for extended periods, so no. And I’m from NJ, I’m naturally loud so if a person is comfortably hearing me, they are probably at least 10 feet away, even with a mask on me. :)

    • Anonymous

      I’ve never worried like that. I wear a mask and try to keep my distance which is all I can do.

    • Flats Only

      No. And I never worried about it, even before we all started wearing masks. I suppose if someone who seemed sick had coughed and sneezed on me while we were trapped in an elevator for 1/2 an hour I might have been concerned, but normal (or what used to pass for normal) interactions have not caused me any anxiety.

    • Anon

      Personally I find I worry about this stuff more the LESS I go out, if that makes sense. If I go out once every week or 10 days, then I feel like I still have “reminders” that people will walk by me, we will be exiting the store together, I could need to interact with a grocery worker when the self checkout randomly freezes on me. But when I’ve stretched it to 3-4+ weeks then it all felt like “a lot” — like I was a bit more surprised/scared when 4 people walked thru the exit at once or I had to say excuse me because someone was blocking the only part of the sidewalk where you can push a cart thru. I almost had to remind myself — the exits are half indoors/half outdoors and we passed by each other, we didn’t sit and have coffee for an hour at the exit, the sidewalk blocker was outside, the grocery worker was 4 ft away and we also didn’t sit and break bread, this isn’t THAT big of a deal.

    • Anon

      No. I think you can’t reduce your risk to zero if you’re leaving your house. But the research seems to point to most transmissions being in closed indoor spaces for like ten minutes within 6 feet of someone. One off interactions don’t carry zero risk but it’s not worth the mental space for me to think about them.

    • Anon

      No, I simply do not have the brain space these days to be worried about things like that.

    • Anon

      No. The contact tracing standard is for people you’ve been in “close contact with”, which is 15 minutes minimum (at least in my state. I imagine this is debatable like everything is these days )… but no, check out person with no mask or mask below nose? Not a problem.

    • CountC

      Full honesty? No, I don’t think about it at all. I wear my mask and wash my hands when I get home. I really never think about the interactions – it’s my new reality and I am used to it.

  28. Anonymous

    I’m broken. I really cannot wrap my head around the fact that the world expects me to work from home with 0 childcare indefinitely. Boss is giving me grief. My four year old is lonely and despondent and governor cuomo just cancelled summer school and probably camp. How is this acceptable as a now long-term solution.

    I just don’t get it. If the world is cancelled and the government wants to pay everyone to not work then they should be paying everyone whose childcare is now prohibited from operating. It’s not fair or sustainable.

    • Anonymous

      Cuomo and other politicians don’t care about you or anything other than their political agenda. It’s NOT fair or sustainable.

      Maybe we should quit paying the government and see how long this bs continues.

      • Ribena

        Oh shush with you. People have children knowing there’s a village there to help with the practicalities. Now that’s disappeared.

      • Anon

        STOP IT. Nobody who had children signed up to work a full-time job without any childcare, or to see our kids suffer the effects of isolation from other children. We all thought we were bringing children into a world where we could choose to work and send our children to daycare and school where they would be educated by teachers and socialized with other children. Now that option doesn’t exist. It was taken away from us, it wasn’t a choice. And kids didn’t make a choice to be born and they are being harmed by school closures just as much if not more than their parents. This is not an “eh your choices got you into this” scenario.

      • Anon

        Fine. You expected to dump your kids at daycare,camp, school etc. but I can’t imagine why you expect people without kids or people with older kids will care that you can’t handle your kid + your 4 year old is sad because he can’t see his bestie.

        • Anon

          Everyone should care about the education and development. The future of society depends on it whether or not you have children yourself.

          • Anon

            No. She will never need a doctor when she’s older. So it’s totally fine if we just cancel school forever because cancelling school only affects parents and they chose to have kids!

          • Anon

            Not just a doctor, but food and roads and electricity. Once you’re old enough, almost everything is provided by people younger than you. Your roof is fixed by the guy half your age. Your food is produced, moved, stored, and stocked by a whole range of working age people. Your roads are fixed by working age people. Your water sanitation facility is run by younger people.

        • pugsnbourbon

          Anon at 12:14 and 12:29 do you enjoy kicking people while they’re down? If you do, I encourage you to really, really take a hard look at yourself.

          • Anon

            People are down because of their KIDS? The same people who typically gush about how being a MOTHER is the best thing ever and how it changed their world and it changed their heart? Now they’re broken because they’ve had to spend 2 full time months with whom they otherwise gushed about?

          • Anon

            Anon @ 12:43, I truly hope you find some happiness and find a way to stop being so hateful to other people. I love my daughter, she’s the absolutely light of my life and I don’t in any way regret having her. I love spending time with her. But she’s 2, and requires near-constant attention to make sure she doesn’t kill herself or damage property, and she needs interaction with other humans to develop. Working full time while also being a full-time preschool teacher is, yes, stressful and exhausting and not something I want to do. That doesn’t negate my joy at being a mother and if you can’t understand that, I don’t know what to say. Most of my close friends are childless but still manage to understand that while children are a tremendous joy, caring for and educating young children is a full-time job. This is literally a job that daycare and K-12 teachers are paid for (albeit not enough). I imagine working two full-time jobs would be exhausting for you too. And people are not breaking after two months of this, we’re breaking because now we’re not being told not to expect school or daycare for many more months.

        • Senior Attorney

          Good Lord.

          OP, I care. I can’t imagine how hard this must be for you. Good grief it’s was hard enough before the pandemic!

        • anon

          You are really commenting on a board geared towards high achieving women in challenging careers and accusing them of “dumping” their kids at “school” (wow what monsters, women who want their kids to be educated). Do you expect that you will find a receptive audience for your screed? Are you a stay at home mom? If your position is that mothers shouldn’t work, maybe try some bible thumping mommy blog and leave everyone here alone.

          “…but I can’t imagine why you expect people without kids or people with older kids will care that you can’t handle your kid…”

          Empathy. You appear to be literate and have internet access. Google the term if it’s unfamiliar to you.

      • Anonymous

        I’m sorry that you’re so lonely and angry you feel like you need to make comments like this to vent your feelings.

    • Anon

      I’m with you. This whole situation has made it clear that the government and society prioritizes others over me and my children.

        • Anon

          Maybe I didn’t phrase correctly. I don’t mean the focus on public health but rather the reopening plans. Kids and working parents seem to be at the bottom of the list of concerns. It’s frustrating to see places demand that gyms (seem high risk and not really essential) be prioritized over schools.

          • PolyD

            I think the problem is that schools are often hot beds of disease spreading, more so than gyms, even if this particular virus doesn’t seem to make kids as sick. You can limit the number of people in a gym, adults are usually better at washing their hands, and it’s easier to get adults to stay away from each other and wear masks (usually).

            Plus I am sure there would be a lot more blowback if kids went back to school and there was a sudden surge of ill children (it’s rare, but some kids do get very sick), than if a bunch of adults got sick from going to the gym. I’m saying this kindly, but I think people would be a lot more angry at a decision that endangered children than one that endangered adults.

          • anonshmanon

            I find that frustrating too, but I find it helpful to remember that the majority of people are NOT scrambling to get haircuts, but a small vocal minority. Most people are sick of all this sitting at home, but support restrictions for public health reasons. I empathize with parents of young children that are challenged in their own ways (which doesn’t take away from the mental health challenge that single people face, or the existential stress that laid off workers face, this is not a competition), and if there is any blame to direct here, I think it lies with the employers not cutting them any slack.

          • Anon

            But it’s not just the frustrations of being a working parent. Yes, that’s difficult but school is vitally important for kids! And we seem to be throwing our hands up in this country (note: lots of other countries are reopening schools) and saying we can’t go back safely so no school at all. I find the argument re protecting children to be a straw man given the amount of school shootings that have resulted in zero action being taken to prevent them.

          • anon

            I’d also point out that there is no real evidence that kids are big spreaders and the death rate for kids is very very low (less than the flu), which makes me believe the argument about schools being to “protect the children”. Especially when schools help protect a lot of kids from hunger, unreported abuse, not having a place where they feel safe, etc. in addition to the obvious benefits to the kid and society at large of education and socialization

          • Anon

            @PolyD, I’m not sure the evidence bears that out. I realize that babies and toddlers are different, but school age children can generally be expected to wear a mask. People can’t wear masks while exercising, so that’s one advantage schools have over gyms. The exposure in schools is also more limited. Particularly, at the younger ages, you can keep children in one classroom and not have them exposed to hundreds of people every day. If one child gets sick, the other children in the room may get sick, but that’s not a large number of people and you have a list of who they are and can ask them and their families to self-quarantine. Hundreds or thousands of people pass through a gym every, and there’s not really a good way to reach everyone who was at a particular gym on a certain day, so those people (some of whom are likely infected) are out there in the community exposing more people. There are also studies coming out that asymptomatic and mildly ill people (which is most kids) aren’t major drivers of spreading the illness, it’s the people who are or will get more ill that cause most of the spread. Personally, I know two people whose children had mild covid and no one else in the family got it. That’s anecdata I know, but I think (hope) we will see more actual data along those lines soon.

            I’m not saying that it’s easy to safely have school or that it won’t require a lot of careful planning and effort, but pretty much every other country is trying to figure out a way to make it happen and it’s incredibly frustrating to me that the US seems to just be collectively throwing up our hands and saying “eh, germs spread in schools, so we can’t have them.”

      • Anon

        Everything in the world is always about parents and their precious kids. One time it isn’t you fall apart? People are constantly expected to bend over backwards because OMG pregnancy, school plays, snow days blah blah and if you don’t then you’re just an awful person. Now is your time to deal.

          • anon

            Right? Makes me wonder if this person is dealing with infertility issues or is upset she could never have children for some reason… or has a wretched relationship with her own mother. Not that this excuses any of her atrocious behavior (which I expect is reoccurring) but it’s just so obviously lashing out.

          • anon

            Or maybe she’s happily child-free and is feeling schadenfreude after many years spent enduring the constant barrage of “you’ll change your mind” or “you’re making a mistake!” or “life without kids is meaningless!”

          • Anon

            Maybe I should have gone with … I’m sorry nobody loves you so you have to lash out on the Internet.

        • AnonATL

          This comment along with a few others up above are pretty appalling. None of us chose our life path based on a pandemic shutting down the world one day. It’s like blaming the people who live alone for the isolation they are struggling with now.
          This is not normal. None of us could truly be prepared and we can’t blame people for struggling in a terrible situation.

        • Anon

          When people are intent on opening the economy without solutions for childcare or insist that schools stay closed while opening less essential but as risky activities, yes, it’s clear we don’t value working parents (but let’s be real, Mothers) or children. We are willing to think of solutions to open up basically every single type of business other than daycares and insist that schools cannot possibly be safe (despite the rest of the world trying a whole host of stuff).

          • anon

            Of course it shouldn’t be an either/or but when a progressive state like New York has a plan to open every possible business under the sun over the next few months in phases but has declared no matter what schools will not reopen this year and are 50/50 for the fall…that’s a pretty clear indication the government is prioritizing other things over education.

    • Anon

      It’s so f*cked up. Our state is “reopening” but is already making noises about how school probably won’t happen in the fall. We need gyms and spas and bars but we don’t need school for kids and childcare for working parents?!?! DH and I are totally burned out and exhausted and we’ve been doing this for 2 months. I don’t see how we can do it for another 16 months…or more. Not to mention my kid is heartbreakingly lonely and I know this extended isolation is going to have a permanent impact on her.

    • Pure Imagination

      Can you get a nanny or a nanny share? It sounds like you really need some relief sooner than later and there are going to be a lot of qualified people who need work and would feel better serving one family rather than working at schools or child care centers.

      • anon

        +1, especially for summer, we have quite a few college students in town whose internships got cancelled and are home for the summer, and looking for work.

      • Anon

        It’s basically impossible to find a nanny right now. I’ve been searching endlessly.

    • Anon New Yorker

      Where did you see that summer camps are definitely canceled?! I’m in NYC and I’ve had a countdown to the start of summer camp, hoping against hope to have at least some childcare this summer… I’m literally going to cry if that doesn’t happen. My almost-5 year old is incredibly sad without her friends and I’m burned out and at the end of my rope with all this. Broken is right.

      • Anon

        Cuomo’s press conference today said they’re looking at it in light of the fact that there’s that new syndrome affecting kids. He said decisions on schools wouldn’t be made until July. IDK if the school and camp decision is that different so if they’re waiting another month or two to decide, that’s 2/3 of the summer anyway.

        • Anon

          That’s crazy to me that the decision is based solely on that syndrome in kids. It’s so incredibly rare and it isn’t even proven to be linked to Covid. I read that only 50% of the kids with the inflammatory syndrome in NYC have a positive covid test or covid antibodies. Given that ~1/3 of NYC is estimated to have had Covid by now, the fact that 1/2 of kids with a certain syndrome being positive for Covid antibodies doesn’t seem to strongly suggest a link between Covid and the syndrome.

          • Anon

            +10000 I feel like the reaction to the syndrome is totally overblown. And I’m usually a fairly cautious/scared parent (residual effect of having a kid in the NICU for 3 months).

            And to add to everything above, it’s also treatable if it’s caught early! From that lens I’m glad it’s getting attention because parents are hopefully more likely to call a doctor sooner if they see symptoms. But I don’t get how keeping all kid stuff closed is a rational reaction to a very rare disease that may not even be linked to covid

    • Anon

      Get a nanny, no? Lots of college kids won’t have internships this year as programs are canceling or are much shorter, so that companies can save some money, even if programs could be done virtually. Lots of kids who’d otherwise work in ice cream shops or theme parks won’t be doing that because some of those places won’t reopen, some will reopen but hire fewer people as there will be fewer people going and thus less revenue coming in; and some of those kids’ parents may not want them having a public facing job like that but could be ok with them in a babysitting situation for one family down the block where they’re only expose to a family of 3-4 people with the adults all working at home and the kids really going no where. It’s safer than a theme park with a 1000 guests/day.

      • Anon

        A nanny who can competently take care of kids (especially babies) isn’t the same thing as a jobless college student (especially one with helicopter parents, yikes) . We have a grandparent here helping to nanny while we work and even someone who has successfully raise 3 children still needs lots of helping with feeding and getting the baby to take a nap. It’s so frustrating.

    • Northwest Islander

      To be fair, “the world” does not expect this at all. Just our own vicious and broken culture here in the “Great” USA.

      I am childless and single, in large part because I am caregiver to my mom with Alzheimer’s. I removed her from memory care in March when someone on staff at her residence was diagnosed with COVID. Feels like she with be with me indefinitely, because I am certainly not allowing her to return to a cesspool. Hoping that I can keep my job, which thankfully is WFH for now.

      I chose this situation way, WAY less than someone who actually chose to have children. But here we are, all the caregivers, with zero current or forthcoming support. MAGA!

    • Anonymous

      I get it — if I hired a nanny who said “oh, BTW, I will be working remotely at a f/t job while I “care” for your kids and just let them have mostly screen time and not take them out nearly enough,” I’d let her go in a hot minute. But right now, I am that nanny. It would be neglectful childcare if provided normally. Knowing you are forced into it is not good. But doing my job remotely takes everything out of me and I can’t afford to cut back to PT (and it’s not feasible; I’m also covering for someone on maternity leave). It just s*cks.

    • Anonia

      Would it be possible to expand your bubble a little and share care with another family? Can you have family or friends zoom-sit you you can get a break? This is hard, and it’s awful that your employer does not understand.

    • Anonymous

      Are you writing to your local officials and the board of education advocating that school starts? Requesting the benchmarks that need to be hit for school to start? I’m pretty confident that they are hearing from people who want to delay school, and you need to make your voice heard. If there are things put in place that would make you comfortable, tell them that. The reason that some businesses are or aren’t opening is partially due to advocacy.

      I’m not sure what you expect the government to do. Unemployment is at depression level highs, which means less tax revenue created, plus the challenge of collecting from people with no money. Property taxes are still being collected, much of which goes to schools. Should property owners pay more for some type of child care?

      It’s easy to say that no one cares. Lots of people are facing different challenges right now, and fair enough, they may care about their problems more than yours. It’s good to vent your frustration on an internet board, but one thing this pandemic has shown me is that we must step up and be responsible for our own solutions.

    • Anonymous

      This is Late but I’m just catching up. I did not read all 50+’comments.

      Unless you have immediate (live-in) family that is high risk, hire a sitter or open your “germ pool” up to include a family that can do shaded child care. Also, take FMLA if needed. This is so, so hard. Good luck.

    • Anon

      I know, this is an impossible situation. I’m so sorry. Can you team up with another family? Even if it’s just a few hours here or there, might help lift everyone’s spirits. People can’t work without childcare, that’s just the reality, so you need to find some way to get support even though that means expanding your circle a bit.

  29. AA these days

    I had a sinking feeling when I woke up today. My state has declared liquor stores to be essential (liquor stores are state-owned, so they make money, but also “for the alcoholics”). A lot of AA meetings are in churches, which are now closed. You can’t really meet in person for our stay-home order (and they are now limited to 10 people, outside, and it has done nothing but rain). A colleague is in AA (a lot of people are — they meet in an uptown church during the week, but businesses there are closed). What is he and other AA people to do now? Praying for those folks — they really rely on this. I see we have met the needs of those still addicted but not those trying hard to pull themselves out of it.

    • Monday

      AA is still meeting online, though of course that’s not the same. Most treatment facilities in my state are still open, including detox and long-term residential. Outpatient care is also available online. Anyone in withdrawal is eligible for emergency care and medication.

      I’m not saying this is ok, but I am saying there are some answers. (I work in the field.)

    • Senior Attorney

      In my area AA is meeting online. I know that’s not an option for everybody but it’s better than nothing.

    • Anon

      Just on the necessity of liquor stores, you know some of that is so that alcoholics don’t end up going into withdrawal and cluttering the ER, right? It’s not like no one thinks alcoholism isn’t a problem – it’s just a problem we’re not going to fix today. (Or ever, says the adult child of an alcoholic.)

      • Anon

        Yeah, these decisions (at least where I live) were made thinking about the potential demand on our health resources.

        • Anonymous

          I think it is the frustration on insisting we take care of addicts (and noting that addicts make $ for the state) but not also prioritizing the needs of people in recovery from that addiction.

    • Anonymous

      My brother died of alcoholism at 34 last month. I can’t say it was because of the lockdown, but he was pretty despondent over everything the last few times we talked. I really can’t imagine he was zooming his therapist.

      Anyway, all of this is to say that in my experience, as a close loved one of a deceased alcoholic:
      1. Physical dependence on alcohol is real and withdrawal is serious, can be deadly
      2. Alcoholics don’t cease to find alcohol and promptly check into rehab. It’s messier than that.
      3. Some folks do not find virtual support to be tangible or helpful.

    • Anon

      I’ve plugged r/stopdrinking a few times on here before, and I’ll plug it one more time.
      I agree that keeping liquor stores open was the right choice. The consequences of unsupervised withdrawal are not trivial.
      The couple of times I’ve really wanted a drink during this COVID-19 thing, I’ve reminded myself how thankful I am that it’s one thing I no longer need to make a trip to the store for or spend money on.
      My Diet Coke habit otoh….

      • Anonymous

        There would have been rioting in the streets and mass civil disobedience if they closed liquor stores.

        • Monday

          This is overly dramatic, but also, nobody is saying they should have closed. People are saying it’s unfortunate that it seems easier to continue in active addiction right now than it is to get help to remain sober.

          • Anon

            Honestly, it’s ALWAYS easier to continue in active addiction. That’s part of the reason why addictions are so destructive.

  30. The Original ...

    Am I the only one? … I’m starting to catch myself thinking that it’s weird to see someone on tv in a big group of people or starting to feel frustrated with people in a movie who are heading to a concert, only to remember that the thing was filmed before the pandemic. It’s like I’m now so used to social distancing (myself and seeing it in the news) that my brain thinks a group (especially one with no masks) is messing it up for the rest of us before it remembers that this wasn’t how things were not too long ago. I know we are adaptable creatures and it’s been enough time to form new habits, but it shocks me every time to revisit the disconnect and the relatively short time we’ve been in this new world order!

    • Abby

      YES!! I get kinda sad seeing people at a party or crowded bar, but also my initial reaction is “uhhh that’s not social distancing”.

    • Anon

      Yes! In the beginning I just thought everyone on Tv were standing way too close to each other. Now it seems quaint and old timey when they socialize in groups.

    • Anon

      The big thing for me is seeing handshakes on tv shows. It’s kind of jarring in the sense that it drives home what our new life is like.

    • Anon

      Yeah a friend posted a wedding picture for her anniversary and it was of the dance floor and the first half dozen or so comments were — omg too many people, too close. Her wedding was 2 years ago!

      • Z

        Maybe a week ago there was a wedding thread on here. One commenter said she had a small wedding and it was perfect, and some troll immediately said like “I hope it was worth it and no one dies as a result of your wedding.” The wedding was years ago.

      • Thanks, It Has Pockets!

        Yesterday I saw, in my FB memories, statuses from when we were stuck in an airport overnight last year. I had two thoughts – “ah yes, the days where we could go somewhere on an airplane” but also “at least this year we’re ‘stuck’ in our own home, with beds, and privacy.”

    • PolyD

      Kind of like how it’s weird to watch old movies in which the family accompanies the passenger to the gate at the airport, or people being pick up by relatives at the gate.

      • anonymous

        Yes! Also, going even farther back, seeing smoking on planes. I physically want to reach into the TV to stop them so they don’t, I don’t know… explode the plane or something.

    • Anonymous

      I definitely feel this way too. Like these everyday normal scenarios that were B.C. (Before Covid-19) are just so unimaginable to me. A couple yelling at eachother in a restaurant where people are seated very closely? OMG the microdroplets! Like I almost cannot remember what that was like.

    • Thanks, It Has Pockets!

      I’m probably starting to sound like a broken record, when my boyfriend and I watch movies and TV shows and I say things like “remember restaurants?” “remember concerts?” “remember when we could just GO places?” (jokingly, of course, relatively speaking it wasn’t that long ago).

      I’ve also noticed how many TV shows that had seasons this spring, that take place in 2020 but will be inherently inaccurate because they were written and filmed before all this began. I wonder how many movies and TV shows we’ll see that have people social distancing, or wearing masks, either because they’re explicitly about the pandemic or because the writer chose to use this situation as the backdrop to tell their story.

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