Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Printed Pencil Skirt

308 Comments

1. Reposting this from yesterday because I was too late yesterday to get any replies: I have a question I was hoping I can get some advice on. I’m a law student and went to one of those standard firm networking events. I got to speak to the managing partner for a few minutes and he ended up offering me his card without me asking. I will definitely be sending him a thank you email but is it appropriate to ask a managing partner for coffee to “learn about the firm” or should those coffees be reserved for associates?

   1. What year are you and is the firm one that you are interested in/would want to be hired by as a summer associate or out of law school?

      1. I just finished my first year and yes definitely very interested in the firm and want to be hired as a summer associate

   2. I think you could ask him. You should also mention that if he’s unavailable, you would also be interested in talking to someone in an area of practice you are interested in. That way, you could set up coffee with someone else , and pop in just to say hi to him for a minute or two when you meet with the interviewer. Great job networking, by the way

      1. +1. Don’t pass up the opportunity to at least ask, but leave him an opening to easily decline and refer you to someone else. Worst case scenario, you get an intro from the managing partner to someone else in the firm, which I would still count as a networking win.

      2. +1, do this.

   3. If you like the firm and want to apply for 2L Summer, don’t wait until your school’s OCI deadlines. Seriously. More and more, firms are strongly considering “write in” or “direct” applications long before the OCI interview process (of course, firm mileage may vary). If you are not successful as a write in, you still have the OCI application process to rely on.

      1. This. This is why he offered you his card. Firms spend a LOT of time and money on OCI and if they can lock up 1 or 2 or 5 candidates before even entering into the August OCI time period, that’s what they want to see happen. If you reach out, I can’t assure you that he’ll go to coffee with you (he might – esp if he’s managing partner of a small office and this personally oversees coffee) but I can virtually guarantee if you are from the right school for that firm, it will result in some sort of invitation to apply to the firm or an immediate 1st round interview.

         1. But say he rejects the coffee invitation, will that do any harm? im not coming off too keen or eager? I doubt many ppl will ask a managing partner for coffee and I dont want to come across as stepping out of line in any way.

            1. Not at all. I like the suggestions above to say “or another appropriate person”–firms literally have designated people who are their recruitment salespeople for situations like this–and follow up there. Then, when you direct apply, you reference those two people in your cover letter/contact with the recruiters. The hardest part about all of this is getting out of the pile of applications. His offer of a business card was the symbol of his offer to help you get out of the pile and in front of the recruitment committee.

               You got this! Congratulations on making a great impression.

            2. Nope. Doesn’t hurt you in any way. If he doesn’t respond or says no (even though your email should refer to coffee with “another appropriate person at the firm as I endeavor to learn more about the firm and its practice areas generally”) — you go about your business. If you want to drop your resume for them in OCI still, do it and go through that process.

               Reality is all law students are the same — it’s hard for you to stand out and it’s hard for firms to distinguish between you. And firms miss the mark a lot of times – bc they meet ppl for 30 min in the first round, 2 hrs in the second round and most top law students can hold it together for that long. Then the person arrives as a summer and an associate and is a disaster and the firm is kind of stuck. So they do these things – meeting students outside of OCI – to give themselves a few chances to get to know a few people beyond that OCI process and really find some people who they think is a fit.

               You can’t lose here. I (and many others) am telling you — and I’ve been in this world for 8+ yrs.

            3. As someone who has now been a practicing lawyer for a few years and has been laid off from a law job, please, please, please – network as much as possible. you are doing yourself a serious disservice if you are not fairly constantly networking, both in law school and .

               I wish I had networked more in law school.

      2. I did this in the late 90s and got my summer associate/ big law job this way. Don’t wait to be part of the pack if you can stand out.

         1. I applied directly for BigLaw summer associateships in 2008 (they didn’t interview at my T4 school) and ended up getting a summer associateship in 2009 of all years. I similarly referenced a couple of the lawyers’ names who I’d met and applying directly turned out to help me stand out from the pack. They gave me an offer before they’d even started OCI.

      3. thanks for all the advice, I’m going to do it! Do you guys advise that I use the last name or is first name fine?

         1. Use last name until he signals otherwise, i.e. signing the email in response with first name.

            1. Agreed. Address the email to Mr. ______. If he signs his email back to you with his first name, it’s fine for you to use his first name going forward.

2. Question for the Canadians…is it at all insensitive/bad to wish people Happy Canada Day (on July 1 obviously) in Quebec, especially outside of Montreal? Not sure if there are people who would take it badly?

   1. American in Montreal here, soon-to-be married to a French Canadian – I’d say it’s usually fine. That being said, Canada Day is not a huge deal to most Quebecois – I would say most aren’t hostile, just pretty indifferent, so no one I know will be offended, but I wouldn’t expect people to get super excited about it the way the 4th of July is in the US. There are some people who actively celebrate Canada Day but they often head to Ottawa or to specific Canada Day events (I know there are several in both Montreal and Quebec City). I can’t imagine anyone getting really offended, although the whole Canada-Quebec issue can sometimes be touchy to discuss.

   2. Honestly, wishing people “Happy Canada Day” is not that much of a thing even outside of Quebec. I think generally it is way less of a deal than July 4th is for Americans.

      1. Great to know – thanks! I just assumed it was kind of like July 4th in the US. I’m also an American transplant, so the fervor around the day always struck me.

         1. Huh. I’m American and I don’t think it’s ever even occurred to me to wish someone a happy July 4th. I’ve been to plenty of July 4th parades and cookouts and fireworks, but it hasn’t ever struck me as the type of holiday where I’d want anyone telling me “happy July 4th!”

      2. Yeah I have lived in the Toronto area for my whole life and I would never wish anyone “happy Canada day”. I think most Canadians are just happy for the day off. Maybe instead you could just ask people what they are doing for the long weekend?

   3. My own experience, living on the US side of a west coast border town, people found it very amusing when we wished them happy Canada day or happy thanksgiving (on Canadian thanksgiving).

   4. Canada day is just a day off work to drink by the lake. It’s not a big deal at all. I have the unique experience of being around both anglophones and francophones daily and it’s nothing more than a bank holiday for most.

   5. you’d have better luck wishing them a happy St Jean day, much more celebrated in Quebec, 24 June

      1. I’m going to Quebec and leaving on the 23rd! Quel dommage.

3. Boden dresses usually never work or me (waist is always too high) so I wanted to give a shout out to this great dress. I had originally planned to wear it on weekends but the material is nice enough that you could wear it to a business casual office. Very flattering and versatile. I got the polka dot one which I love, I’m also tempted to get the green floral. I’m an hourglass, and I think this dress probably works best if you have some hips on you.

   http://www.bodenusa.com/en-us/womens-dresses/day-dresses/ww202/womens-phoebe-jersey-dress

   1. Ooh, great dress. Real sleeves! Pockets! Good office appropriate length for tall ladies! I’m tempted to get it in all the blue colorways and the grey polka dot, but I am on a shopping moratorium, sadly.

   2. I always have the same issue with Boden, so I ordered based on your rec! The blue dress with the writing (my fav) was out in my size, so trying the bird print

   3. Oh that is cute! I’m ordering. Does it run TTS?

      1. Yes, I think so. I ordered my usual dress size. Boden also has measurements listed for every size which is very helpful.

   4. Thank you for the heads up. I usually have that exact same issue with Boden dresses. They always, always call to me and they never work because they are so high-waisted. I’m going to check this one out.

   5. I’m more of a pear, do you think it will make my hips huge? I usually refrain from those dresses because of that….

      1. I am a more of a pear and I think it has worked fine. It is not the most flattering dress in my closet yet I still have it in three colors.

4. One for all our UK ladies…let’s discuss last night’s election results! We stayed up practically all night listening to the results – a good friend from university weathered two recounts to keep his seat (by TWO votes) so we were personally invested. But using the DUP to prop up the government? ugh.

   1. American here- this is a massive failure for May right? Even though it looks like she’ll be able to form a government?

      1. Yup! She went into it expecting to “crush the opposition” both on the Labour side and silence remainers / backbenchers within her own party. The polling (with the exception of one agency) was really off.

   2. I’m American, but followed the election closely. I’m still shocked that May took such a gamble. I wonder if she’ll look at the results and think that maybe a hard Brexit isn’t what people want or push ahead with it despite not having a clear mandate to do so.

      1. Also an American watching closely – especially shocking since a very similar gamble is what put her in power in the first place. I suspect this coalition won’t last long and there will be election again within the year or even 6 months.

   3. Oh my goodness! I stayed up for the exit polling (John Curtice and his crazy hair called it) and then woke up at 5 to see the results. As much as I enjoy seeing Tories getting a kicking, a DUP propped up minority government is just ugh….

      The NE Fife vote was a nailbiter – good thing he kept his seat given the other losses. Maybe next SNP WM leader?

      1. Has your baby arrived yet?!? You’ll tell us right?

         1. Not until sometime in July – officially 3rd week but suspect little one will make an early appearance :)

      2. Cb – he would be an awesome choice – he is really smart, has been a member of the party forever (was already SNP when we met in 1997), has worked in Europe and directly for Salmond for a time. It was extremely exciting.

         The DUP are a horror show – given their stance on homosexuality, I cannot imagine that Ms. Davidson (who I also knew at university) is too thrilled.

         1. I’ve only heard good things – and campaigning with a newborn baby as well! Some of the SNP 56 were pretty meh but there were some strong speakers / politicians there.

            There is an excellent meme going around twitter with Ruth Davidson saying “I win seats for you in SCOTLAND and you get into bed with the DUP??” I suspect this Tory revival is going to be short-lived.

   4. Sorry to be sophomoric but that failed high five clip that’s going around made me laugh so hard.

      1. And it made my husband laugh too, which almost never happens with memes and the like. He’s usually more of an eye-roller but he burst out laughing when I showed it to him.

   5. So, I had paid zero attention to the U.K. election until yesterday. I kept hearing about all the mistakes May made campaigning. What were they?

      1. I think a lot of them have to do with her being a woman, but maybe I’m just cynical in my old age.

         1. Or maybe they have to do with austerity and xenophobia being super unpopular? I’m sure there was some sexism involved, just like there is sexism directed at Sarah Palin and Kelly-Anne Conway, but lets not pretend the majority of the disgust for her isn’t about her awful politics and inability to present a compelling vision for the future to the young people of the UK.

            1. Yes to the above. May’s problem is less that she is a woman and more that she espouses terrible policies. Kind of like her idol, M Thatcher.

      2. The social care u-turn was the big one. The manifesto contained a commitment to make people pay for social care out of any value of their houses over £100k. Social care is a massive issue in the country so it was an attempt to tackle a real problem but the Tory core vote is wealthy older people who want to pass on their homes to their children so this was very unpopular. There was an outcry, senior ministers got sent out to defend it, it played horribly on the doorsteps, and four days later she had to go out and say oh, everyone misunderstood, of course the amount anyone has to pay will be capped.

         It was the first time pretty much ever that a party has gone back on a manifesto commitment before the election even took place. The initial campaign was very much based around her personally and the slogan was ‘strong and stable government’ which the whole thing was the opposite of. A complete unforced error.

   6. Despite horror show of a Con/DUP coalition, this election did see great voter turnout with anticipated record levels of 18-24 year olds voting. It also pushed up female MPs by 10 taking us to 32% (although the per party % are quite revealing). Some incredibly close results across the UK as well, especially for Amber Rudd. Nice to see a small reduction in votes for Jeremy Hunt and movement to National Health Action in his constituency.

5. Any recommendations on good leggings for working out? I started taking Pure Barre, per suggestions here, and I’m really enjoying it.

   I think I might prefer high waisted ones since I’m always worried about them slipping down.

   Thanks!

   1. I just got some AWESOME high waisted leggings at Target (of all places). Definitely comparable quality to my Athleta/Lululemeon stuff.

      1. Yes. This. The thick, high waisted cotton ones from Champion. They retail for about $40, and I LIVE in them for yoga (taking and instructing).

         1. https://www.target.com/p/women-s-embrace-high-waist-leggings-black-c9-champion-174/-/A-50929292

            These ‘Embrace High Waist Leggings’. You can often find a deal on the Cartwheel App.

      2. +1. I have a 3 year old pair still going strong. I adore the Target/Champion ones.

   2. Old Navy!

      1. Old Navy leggings are awesome. I particularly love their high-waisted, compression leggings (not in the Go-Dry fabric).

      2. Seconded! Love Old Navy stuff.

         Also Zella. That fabric is the softest thing ever and I love it.

      3. Thirded. Love Old Navy leggings.

      4. Fourthed! Love my ON compression capris. I’ve never tried lulu, but I don’t feel like I need to.

   3. Just an anti-recommendation is the Zella ones that get promoted everywhere. They do not stay up particularly well on me (hourglass-ish at least in waist-to-hip) and are too expensive relative to their quality. I much prefer my cheap Champion ones from Marshall’s.

      1. No experience with Zella, but I’ve also found decent cheap leggings at Marshall’s and TJMaxx. It’s nice to be able to try on different styles, fabrics, fits, etc. My favorite cheap ones from Amazon are 90 Degree by Reflex and Oalka – but they’re not particularly high-waisted.

         1. my absolute favorite is 90 Degree – I buy them at TJMaxx though (and TJMaxx online). Several of the styles are actually super high waisted!

         2. I love the 90 Degree ones from Amazon. They stay up really well.

      2. Same issue with Zella- they slide right off. I have Champion and Lululemon- fabric at Lululemon has a nicer feel, but both fit and stay up. 10″ dif between waist and hips here

      3. I find that Zella runs very short, too.

      4. +1 – I love my Zella leggings, but not for working out. I wear them for casual wear only or sleep in them. Too much droop in the drawers.

      5. Completely agree about the Zella normal leggings, but I LOVE their high-waisted leggings (also pear-shaped here). Perfect for Pure Barre, especially with a cute top (because is it just me, or does Pure Barre always seem to have the best-dressed women for exercising?)

         1. Totally the cutest outfits.

         2. I have to get high waisted leggings. The waistband rolls down on me otherwise.

      6. Voice of dissent – I LOVE mine, they are the only leggings that stay up properly on me. I’m super short so that aspect is good for me (and even the regular ones are high waisted because of that), hourglass shape but with a particularly enormous butt, that aspect is what seems to fit best on me. I really think this depends a lot on your body and especially butt shape, some of the other leggings people rave about here do nothing for me, lululemon is a total non starter because one particular body part just doesn’t fit. So basically my legging recommendation is….butt first fitting.

      7. I think Zella changed the fabric, elastic, and/or cut of their leggings within the past couple of years. I have some older Zella Live-In leggings that stay up very well, and some newer ones in the exact same style that don’t.

   4. I love Lucy…Activewear. Their high waisted leggings and capris are awesome–similar pricepoint to Zella (but better) and maybe lulu (idk, they don’t want my business so I have no idea what prices they are)–and their sales are great.

   5. I love the Gap fit ones – cheapish on sale and I’ve found they’ve held up to a year + of weekly wear with no signs of slowing down.

   6. Lululemon High Times pants are my favorite high rise leggings. The price tag is painful, but all 3 pairs of Lulu leggings I have, have lasted 3 years and up

   7. No specific brand recommendations but I like really long leggings for barre that I can pull down over my heels.

      1. so i admit to being not trendy at all but a lot of women in my barre class do this. can you explain why you pull the leggings over your heels? does it help with grip in some way? sorry if there’s a super obvious answer that i just havent thought of!

         1. For me, it reduces pinching my exposed ankles on the barre itself. And I feel visually longer and leaner and more ballerina-y. Helps my mind!

         2. It comes from ballet. Dancers wear legwarmers and leggings pulled low over achilles tendon to keep it warm during warm ups (aka barre work)

         3. When we’re doing stretches at the bar, it’s much more comfortable and easier to move when skin isn’t touching the bar.

   8. I don’t know if this is available in the US but I recently found this new brand, Hyba (well new to me). The leggings are awesome, stay up, come in all sorts of patterns and are way cheaper than Lulu which was my previous favourite but way too expensive for my almost every day workout habit.

      Whatever you decide, I find leggings with a wide waistband stay up much better – I have a problem with leggings not staying up on me and both Lululemon and Hyba stay up just fine.

   9. I really like Lulemon, Athleta, or Alo. To me, there is a major difference between their fabric and Target/Old Navy.

   10. Reebok leggings that I buy at D!ck’s Sporting Goods. They have high-waisted ones and you can usually find some on the clearance rack.

   11. Reebok leggings that I buy at D!ck’s Sporting Goods. They have high-waisted ones and you can usually find some on the clearance rack.

   12. I have actually loved the J.Crew + New Balance leggings (via the jcrew website), and they are on sale right now.

   13. Try them on to see how you feel. I have everything: Old Navy, Target/Champion, Athleta, Lulu, Gap, Nike, Zella. My favorites are still Lululemon for fit, fabric, feel, and durability. I have probably five pairs of high-waisted wunder unders (always in luon) and a few hi-times for everything from barre to yoga to HIIT to weights. They are breathable (some are SO HOT) but wick well (some will stay drenched!) with fabric that is the perfect thickness (not too thick that are hot and not too thin that you feel every breeze and any bend reveals everything). Far second are Nikes. I like Zellas for wearing leggings under like a poncho for non workouts but they are too hot for running. My Old Navy and Champions are now pretty much only for home workouts because they are too sheer. I think I donated my Gap ones. Athletas either miss the mark of fabric or fit for workouts.

       1. +1 to all of this. This is a pretty accurate recap. I don’t want to love Lululemon, but the fabric really is the best technical fabric I’ve found.

   14. I think it’s an extremely personal fit. For example 90 degrees and champion fall off of me but lulu really is noticeably the best on me (with aritzia and Eddie Bauer close seconds.) the best less expensive pair I’ve found is under armour–they stay up but are a bit more restrictive

6. 2 years ago I moved a couple hundred miles to a new state, with no job lined up, so that I could get married after several years of LDR. I left behind a decoupage of un/underpaid inter ships that would never have been full-time, and he supported us for over a year while I job-searched.

   At that point, he talked a lot about how much he respected his coworkers, loved his office culture, and would like to buy a house in the area.

   Last summer I finally found my first full-time job in my field, which I love. It’s a rare mix of interesting projects with low pressure; I can network and publish, but also stay home when I get migraines.

   Now DH is burning out on his job. His best work friend is leaving town, and most of the office just faced down a completely spurious bar complaint. He’s talking about quitting, but couldn’t keep his current profession without moving several hours away to a major city.

   I can’t support us both and pay his loans. So it seems like we’re stuck in this “do we stay? Do we go? Do we split up and visit on weekends for who knows how long?”

   Any comments that help me break my thinking out of the rut of uncreative options I’m imagining would be very helpful. TIA.

   1. He’s a lawyer right? It’s utter nonsense that he has to move away to find a job. Tell him you sucked it up for years and now it is his turn. He has to keep working at this job until he finds another one he can commute to from your home. Suck it up Sheila time.

      1. While there have been tough moments in my career, I thought my post made it pretty clear that moving out here for him was not bad for my career.

         And yes, for now, he is sucking it up and going to work, but I don’t want him to do that forever. So we’re talking through options, like people on a team do.

         1. Okayyyyyy

            You struggled for a long time to find a job. Now you have.

            Now it’s his turn to find a job where you live. There’s no reason at all why he should be stuck at this job forever.

         2. Oh, I so love it when people ask for advice, and then immediately get b *tchy and defensive when they get it. Maybe next time just ask the barista at Starbucks, then.

   2. Your DH is a lawyer? I find it hard to believe he has to move hundreds of miles away to work. Even smaller towns have law firms and government lawyers. Universities often employ lawyers too and aren’t always in big cities. I don’t think he gets to make you move and lose a job you love just because he’s burning out on his job. If he had been laid off and was unable to have a career without moving it would be a different story.

      1. We’re in the middle of effing nowhere. But yes, I should have specified that he’d have to leave the type of law he’s been doing for his entire career.

         I take your point about expanding the search into other types of law though. Thanks.

         1. You moved to the middle of nowhere for him. Now he needs to find another job there or stay at his current job until you find a job elsewhere you’d be happy moving too.

            Also use this time to build up your savings and pay down loans aggressively.

   3. Questions needing answers: How easy will it be for you to find another job in your field? How easy will it be for you to find another job you LOVE in your field?

      What type of law does your husband practice? Certain types of law can be practiced in multiple environments- in house, government, or private, while others can’t. Are there other work environments or even related areas of law he could consider that could still keep him in or connected to his chosen practice area? If he stops practicing in this area for now, how difficult will it be for him to get back into it? How necessary is it for him to practice this area of law? (either financially or for his happiness?)

      The reasons for burn out seem … odd.. to me. The best work friend leaving is sad but not enough to drag you to a different city. The bar complaint is weird- the whole office? How is it impacting his life? His reputation? This seems like it could be a much larger issue, but I don’t see how it’s really “burn out.” Is the office culture becoming toxic? Either the bar complaint is a big enough deal to impact his reputation and thus he should get out, or it will eventually blow over and things will get back to normal (unless office itself is becoming toxic- that’s no good).

   4. I’m going to disagree here. Sounds like he’s a lawyer and you have a typical English major’s job, right? Who pays the lions share of the bills? Who carries health insurance? Who is saving for retirement and the downpayment on the house? I bet it’s DH. Unless you are making in the same ballpark as him, I think you move to a bigger city where he can continue practicing. As much as people are saying – oh there are lawyers everywhere. It is a tight market and not so easy, not to mention the pay cut he’ll take going from any kind of firm to “helping out as needed” at the law firm of Joe Smith and Associates.

      1. I commented above – I’m a lawyer so I definitely know it’s a tight market, but finding the unicorn job that OP has that’s interesting and low pressure is also incredibly difficult in most fields. She’s also not asking him to leave Skadden and work at Joe Schmo and Associates so she can take a job she wants. He has a perfectly good job in his chosen field (that she moved so he could take), he’s just getting burned out on it. That doesn’t entitle him to ask her to leave a great job and pick up and move again – he’ll probably get burned out at the new job in a year or two anyway. He can job search locally or commute, if there’s any city within commuting distance. If his field is that niche that only one firm in town is doing it, he could also hang out a shingle and probably have success.

         1. +1. I am a lawyer. My husband makes more money than me. Both of us have kind of niche professions/specialties that make moving and staying in our desired fields difficult.

            I moved to the middle of nowhere for him, and feel much like OP. I have had some rough patches in my career because of the move (some lost opportunity, too), but my career has been overall good. I am in a similar unicorn law job that I like an awful lot.

            If my husband were to come home today and decide that he was burned out and wanted to move several hours away, I would not care that he makes more money than I do, and therefore pays the majority of the bills. I’ve moved once, upended my career, and lived in an area that I would never have picked because it made him happy. I’m not giving up the career I have worked hard for again because he’s going through a rough patch at work (which is likely to occur at the next firm/law job, as well).

            1. +1,000 to ELS. I’m in almost the same exact situation. I followed my husband to middle-of-nowhere, leaving my career in the process and struggling through some miserable jobs. I’ve now landed at a job I’m incredibly happy in. My husband makes twice what I do but I would absolutely kill him if he told me he was sick of his job and wanted to move to a new city. If he was laid off and struggling to find anything locally, I’d be supportive of looking elsewhere. But, like ELS, I moved once, completely blew up my career and lived in an area I never would chosen, all for his career. I’m not going through that again just because he’s feeling less-than-thrilled about his job at the moment.

            2. +1, Anonymous. The calculus changes for me if he is forced into a job search. If he’s just generally feeling the malaise of the day to day in a not-new-anymore job, I would be furious if he suggested that he would quit and move. This is further complicated because, for us, not living together is not an option. If he decided he was going to move without me, after five years of marriage and almost 10 of living together, I would not stay married to him.

      2. Perhaps you are unaware that an English major can also make really good money?
         -signed, an English major who makes as much as her Engineer husband

         To the OP: How long has his work situation been like this? Is there the possibility that things will rebound? I would suggest taking a vacation (or staycation, if you both can’t get away) to regroup and recenter.

         1. +1 but also where does OP say she’s an English major? Are my eyes just failing me, because I don’t see that anywhere in the question that she said she’s in English? “Network and publish” could totally be any academic field, including STEM.

         2. 2 week vacation coming up in Sept, but after over a year of being severely over-stressed, I think it’s time we start looking at how to get him some freedom from this jobm

         3. I was wondering what a typical English-major job is. Also, what do you do?

            Signed,
            Lawyer

      3. He’s bringing in over 2x what I am at this point, although I’m in a growing tech industry, so if I get established I might have higher-earning options.

         Sometimes I do feel like I’m not pulling my weight, although he has NEVER shown any sign of thinking that.

         1. … you feel like you’re not pulling your weight because you don’t make as much as he does?

            Does he do equal housework? Who plans meals? Who does the emotional work in the relationship?

            My husband makes about 1.5x what I do. I do not feel like I’m not “pulling my weight” because I do all the things above. I don’t even understand.

            1. H*ll, my husband makes twice what I do and does 50% of the housework and I still feel like I’m pulling my weight in the relationship. We work similar hours, why shouldn’t we do similar housework?

            2. Specifically, because his income allowed me to chase my dream job but I can’t do the same for him. It’s not about the dollars, it’s about the lifestyle freedom. Which is why I’m here, inesting the emotional work so that I can be supportive of his career in other ways.

            3. *investing*

            4. Anon @11:29: I agree with you. My comment lost the nuance of that in my absolute disbelief that “pulling your weight” means making the same money as your partner.

               And OP: It sounds, from your post, like you’re doing most of the supporting of his career. What is he doing, besides providing a paycheck, that allowed you to take your dream job? Again: my husband makes more money than me. I’m grateful that we have, as a household, some financial freedom.

               It sounds like he’s crying woe is me. And maybe he’s pretty stressed at work. We all get that way, and have days/weeks/months that drag on. That’s kind of what the law is (speaking as a lawyer). He needs to learn to deal with that, and to not just be focused on his career and his feelings.

               It sounds like maybe you do, too. He’s not more important because he makes more money. Period. Repeat as necessary.

            5. Thanks. I never mentioned in earlier posts that he was the best possible cheerleader, leveraged his professional network to help me, and that without his financial support and health insurance I was working all the internships + 50hrs a week in food service, which makes it hard to find time to job search.

               I don’t think any of that makes either of us a hero, or puts me in his debt, but he’s been a team player for me, and I want to do the same for him.

         2. Gah! I make 2/3 of the household income. Do I feel like my husband is not pulling his weight? Surely not.

            OP – I’ve been in your shoes, but as an academic trailing spouse – moved for husband’s grad school, blew up career, took a year to find a job while freelancing to pay bills. It’s not easy, so congratulations on finding a job you enjoy!

            Some lateral thinking here. How might you use your current job as a stepping-stone into something as interesting and fulfilling in a major metro area where DH could also find a new, fulfilling job? How long have you been in this job; can you stay long enough to get good references/ not burn bridges etc.?

            How ‘in the middle of nowhere’ are you? An hour commute from the nearest large job market? Two hours? To what extent can your job (or different job, same functions) be done remotely?
            Is your current town nice enough that you can see yourself staying there long-term/ raising a family if that’s what you want/ etc? If not, where would you want to settle long-term? What metro areas are hotspots for your particular field/ industry *as well as* his?

            1. All excellent questions that open up my thinking. The nearest city I could work? About 1.5 hrs away. The nearest city he could work without new bar fees? About 4 hrs away.
               After all the great input from posters on this thread, it seems like the most important question is where we want to settle in. I could start looking around at my field with that in mind.

      4. “Sounds like he’s a lawyer and you have a typical English major’s job”

         Rude.

         Being a lawyer and making a ton of money doesn’t grant someone more power over their spouse. Maybe if the couple agreed, before getting married, that one person’s career would come first, that would be okay, but in general, I fail to see how making more money makes someone the more important partner whose needs always come first. They’re a team, they both matter.

   5. As much as it sucks for you to job search again, why don’t you both look for something in the bigger city. Short term, it’s tough to have to start again, but long term you’d both probably have more options.

   6. Oh man, if I uprooted myself for a guy and, just as I get comfortable, he talks about wanting to quit his job and move the both of us somewhere else, I’d be more than a little annoyed. I’d worry about the kind of precent I’d be setting if we did move for him, I wouldn’t want my husband to think he can move about the country every time he feels like a change, and I’ll just leave everything behind, follow him around, and figure out how to make it work.

      I’d point out that when you moved, you didn’t have any solid job prospects where you were (that’s what I gathered from your post, correct me if I’m wrong), but now you do have a job you love, so a move now would be much more disruptive, so while you understand that he’s unhappy, you really need him to find a solution that allows you to stay where you are now, even if that means practicing a different type of law.

      If you do move to a major city, it needs to be because you’ll both be happier there (job opportunities for both of you!), and make it clear that when you’re there, you’re there long term and putting down roots, no more “ehhh I don’t like this job anymore, lemme look at jobs over in this part of the country . . .”

      1. Yeah, there’s only one, maybe two, metro areas we would be looking at. And TBH, other than jobs, there’s not much we like about the town were in now. So many questions!

         1. If you’d both be generally happier in the metro area, maybe that is a case for moving. But I can also see that finding a job like yours may actually be tougher in the city – more companies, but quite possibly more people jockeying for the openings.

            But I’d still stress that the move has to benefit both of you, not just him, and you should look for a place where you can settle in, buy a house, etc.

            1. Thanks. I guess what this is really all about is how to balance different kinds of benefit!

   7. One thing that’s striking to me is how you are approaching this question as sort of… two separate people. Which of course you are. But isn’t there something about the *unit* of you two as a married couple — what is best for that family as a whole? (Oh god am I going to be called “smug married” again!? Probably!)

      Of course this is completely colored by how I view marriage (which is pretty communistic), but “I can’t support both of us and pay his loans” is a strange way to look at it. As a family, you, together, have an obligation to support the family (he has an obligation to support you! you have an obligation to support him! you are each obligated to support one another and yourselves!) and to meet your shared financial obligations. And support is not just $, it’s all the things you need to feel safe and fulfilled. What’s best for your family as a whole? Clearly going broke is not going to be great for your family. Feeling trampled, subsumed, like your work is disrespected, like your career takes a back seat — that won’t be great for your family. H being frustrated and sad is probably not going to be great for the family either. Is being apart to figure things out going to work with your personalities? Is encouraging H to lean out until he’s recharged/able to find something else going to work?

      Gah I feel like it sounds like I’m telling you not to consider your own needs, when actually I’m telling you the opposite: your needs are essential to the considerations of what works for your family.

      You shouldn’t make a trade that goes from OP happy + H sad –> H happy + OP sad.

      But surely there must be an option where it’s OP happy + H sad –> [some difficult stuff] –> both happy!

7. I have a question about firms paying for cellphones:
   I left my firm about 9 months after switching my personal line into their corporate plan – part of which entailed a free iPhone upgrade. I made the switch because my personal phone was old and just not as reliable, but I wanted to keep using my own number (allowed by firm policy) and didn’t want to deal with the logistics of giving clients a new number. Fast forward to now, I’ve left the firm and was able to transfer my personal number back to my own phone plan and continue using the new phone I got while at the firm (I discarded the old phone once I got the new one). The firm clarified that the phone I got as an upgrade was mine to keep and fully paid for, yet my cellphone carrier is charging me an absurd amount each month because they insist that my firm didn’t pay off the phone. I have called both the relevant people at my old firm and at my cellphone carrier, and both are useless in resolving this. I can’t figure out who I should focus on my attention on following up with. This was my first employer that had this type of corporate phone plan set up, so I’m at a loss here and it’s making me resent the firm for continuing to stress me out with this idiocy even though I QUIT TO GET AWAY FROM THE 24/7 STRESS.

   1. This is how phones work now. Instead of paying the lump sum at the start, you still have to wait to be eligible for an upgrade but then you pay monthly.

   2. IMO the firm needs to provide you evidence that it was paid off, so that you can provide it to the carrier.

      1. +1

         The carrier isn’t going to take your word for it, and if you ask the firm to provide the evidence to the carrier, then once they do that, which will take awhile because this is not a priority for them, someone in the corporate plan customer service department at the carrier has to provide that to someone in the individual plan customer service department, or whatever other byzantine series of events needs to happen at a big company with multiple departments and offices, and you will never get this problem fixed. Get the evidence and provide it yourself.

         1. Good point – the firm’s help staff has been utterly useless at everything (and I make it a point to never insult an entire group of people), so I want this done right, I’ll have to give the cellphone carrier the evidence myself.

            Ugh. This is just so frustrating! The firm was a toxic place to work and I was so glad I was able to leave for a fulfilling opportunity with less stress, but I can’t even make a clean break because I have to keep contacting them about this issue.

            1. Probably because they have a lot more important things to deal with than a disgruntled ex-employee who wants a free phone.

            2. Yeah…. I think so.

   3. I think you suck it up and pay off the phone. This is a minor amount compared to salary/vacation payout/ benefits. When the company said it was yours to keep I’m sure they just meant you didn’t have to turn it in. I’m sure they did not pay for the phone up front because why would they?

      You need to move on and not obsess about this.

      1. +1

         It makes you look bad to be bugging the firm about this. Suck it up and pay.

   4. An absurd amount? Really? Yes, this is how phone upgrades work now and it’s usually like $30/month. You have the phone, you need to pay for it.

8. Does anyone know a fix for flats that cut the back of your heels (achilles tendon area)? Wearing band-aids on my heels doesn’t look great and they always come off anyway. Clearly I should just throw out these shoes, but if anyone has a solution I want to try that first!

   1. You might try the Band-Aid Friction Block Stick.
      I have the same problem sometimes.

      1. I cannot find this anywhere now. I looked on Amazon and they were charging something like $21 for it. Has it been discontinued? I used to use it all the time.

         1. Unfortunately they discontinued it. Dr Scholl’s has something similar. REI has one as well.

   2. The Dr. Scholl’s For Her Rub Relief Strips have helped me before. Not a fancy fix, but it does a decent job.

   3. Moleskin! It works sooo much better than bandaids. It’s stickier and less visible.
      But if you’ve already got raised blisters or open wounds, don’t put it there! It’ll hurt like he’ll when you pull it off. In that case you can stick it to the shoe, which doesn’t work quite as well but still helps if you have to get through the day and get home.

      1. wait I thought moleskin was supposed to stick to the shoe, not your skin… have I been doing it wrong this whole time??

         1. Umm..yes? You can do it either way, but I’ve used it a lot in my life, and it’s much more effective and less annoying on the foot. It’s basically like an instant callus.

            1. I didn’t know this either! Definitely going to go buy moleskin at lunch today.

         2. Yes, it goes on your foot

      2. If you’ve got raised blisters, drain them using a clean needle and then stick some moleskin directly over the newly deflated blister, covering the area completely. Leave it there until the moleskin falls off (usually whenever it gets wet). Works great!

         Also, don’t get tempted by the mole foam because it looks cushier and thicker. It doesn’t stick nearly as well. Stick with the classic fabric moleskin.

   4. Examine that part of the shoe carefully. I had a beautiful but deadly pair of Kate Spade flats that tore up my feet. It was the stitching inside the top lip of the shoe in that exact place. I took a nail file to that part of the shoe and, essentially, filed down the back inside of the shoe so that it was soft and worn. Worked like a charm.

      Otherwise, see if you can stretch them? Wear them around with socks?

      1. I second this approach – it is often the stitching causing the problem!

   5. How long have you been wearing them? I find that when I get new shoes, they tear up my heels because the backs are still stiff, so I either figure they’ll stop doing that and break them in “naturally,” or I’ll smush them up to speed up the process. Also, blister bandaids are great, they protect existing blisters, prevent new ones, and don’t look as obvious as regular bandages.

      1. They’re actually pretty old. I’ll forget I have them, find them in the closet, wear them for a day and remember how painful they are, and then throw them back in the closet and forget about them again. The cycle needs to end!

         1. Toss them as soon as you get home tonight!!

            1. Toss them as soon as you get home tonight!!

   6. I use Nexcare First Aid tape. It works fine for a work day. It would not work for walking all over a city for a day though. I’ve also noticed that when some of my shoes get broken in, I don’t need to use it any more.

   7. You can get heel grips for the backs of shoes, little cushion crescent-shaped things. Even if it feels like the shoes aren’t slipping, they could be moving enough to give you blisters.

      I put these in the backs of nearly all my shoes, and it really helps. You can find them with the arch supports and other Dr. Scholls products. I also agree with the moleskin recs – I use it all the time, on my feet. Sticks much better than band-aids.

9. What’s the best waterproof eyeliner I can get on Amazon?

   1. If you can work with gel in a pot – Maybelline Eye Studio Lasting Drama Gel Eyeliner. It comes with a tiny brush and does not budge.

      If you want pencil – Rimmel Scandaleyes Waterproof Kohl Kajal Liner

   2. Kat Von D Tattoo Liner Trooper if you want a liquid pen

      1. +1 but is it waterproof? That explains why I can never get it off! Duh!

10. Haircut question: I recently went to my regular stylist, whom I really like, but for some reason she thought leaving my curly hair all one length would look okay. And I foolishly didn’t push back hard enough, because she assured me it wouldn’t turn into triangle head. She also told me, if need be, I can go back to have layers added in. My question is it too soon to go back? It’s literally only been a week, so I feel bad going in and saying “no, fix it!”

    Or is it time I suck it up and go to a salon that specializes in curly hair?

    1. Not too soon – especially since she said you could! I went back to a salon two days after a bad cut once.

       1. I got an appointment for this afternoon (I’ll take a late lunch or something). We’ll see what happens!

    2. I agree to go back. I’ve done it once – you can’t have triangle head!

       Also, I love that that is a phrase that every curly haired person immediately gets.

       1. Roseanne Rosannadanna, amirite?

    3. I mean, yes you can ask them to fix it, and if you do you should absolutely not feel bad about it. You had a discussion with your stylist about this exact problem and they didn’t do a good job. They _should_ fix it. But, I wouldn’t bother going back to someone who has already demonstrated a lack of understanding of how to cut curly hair. I doubt very much you’ll get better results. Just because they _should_ fix it doesn’t mean they know _how_. I’d go to a salon or stylist who knows what they’re doing. After years of triangle cuts I don’t let anyone who hasn’t been specifically trained in curly hair anywhere near me with a pair of scissors.

       1. Do you get Deva cuts? If so, do you like them?

          I’ve held back going to a curly salon because (1) those cuts are more expensive and (2) my current stylist is literally right across the street from my office; I see her around. I’d feel bad. I’m cowardly like that.

          1. Yes, I go to a salon with Deva trained stylists. I tried a Ouidad one and didn’t like the results at all.

             In Houston at least the Deva cut is the same as anywhere: $60. Or anyway I have paid that much at other salons where the stylists weren’t Deva stylists. Check out the prices at a few places; it might not be as bad as you think. But also, if you’re having to spend the time to go back to get your cut fixed, personally, I’d rather pay an extra few bucks and save myself the time.

             1. Deva cuts run $75-100, depending on the salon, all of which are in a not really convenient neighborhood.

                I got an appointment this afternoon with my stylist. I figure I’ll see how this goes and then maybe bite the bullet and go to a Deva salon.

                Thanks!

          2. Yes, it can be very awkward running into an old stylist when you’ve started going somewhere else. My old stylist actually had to close her salon and start renting a chair . . . in the salon of my new stylist. I’m still on her mailing list, and her mass emails keep stressing how much she appreciates people’s loyalty through the years. Eeesh!

             1. Yikes! Have you run into her in person?

             2. Yes, she’s there pretty much every time I go get my hair done, which is roughly every 2-3 months (should be more, I know, I tolerate the brown roots longer than I should).

       2. This has been my experience when getting haircuts fixed by the same people – they still end up being bad cuts so beware.

          1. She’s never steered me wrong before…but I got an appointment for this afternoon. I’m hoping for the best.

       3. +100. I HATED my hair growing up. I only started to like my hair after I started going to people who are Deva trained and follow the Deva cut method.

    4. A week is more than enough time to decide the cut isn’t working! Just call as soon as you can and see how early she can fit you in.

       It does seem like she cut your hair differently than usual, did you ask for something different or did she decide to try something new?

       1. I got an appointment for later today. I wanted to go shorter for the summer, and since we were doing something a little different anyway, she suggested leaving it one layer. I wasn’t sure this was a good idea, but she seemed positive that it wouldn’t go triangle-y. It’s not full on triangle yet, but I can tell that it’ll get there as it grows out.

          1. Aha, that makes sense. I hope she’s able to fix it. I can see wanting to go to a curl specialist, but I also see wanting to stick with your current stylist if you have a good report with her, so it absolutely makes sense to give her another chance at this. But if she still can’t figure it out, it may be time to switch.

          2. FWIW, I have curly hair and also just went shorter for the summer. Mine did a lob with the back being shorter than the front. So far so good!

    5. No, go back ASAP!

11. Anyone else read the NYT article about how Comey’s testimony sounded eerily similar to the experience of women who have been harassed by someone in a position of power? Really hit home for me.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/08/opinion/james-comey-and-the-predator-in-chief.html?_r=0

    1. This was coming up a lot on twitter yesterday.

       1. Pod Save America talked about it in their analysis too, and then With Friends Like These, their sister podcast ,did a whole segment about the parallels. Definitely worth listening to.

    2. YES.

       I couldn’t stop reading the comments last night (and this morning).

       This hit home sooooooooooo much for me and was such an accurate reflection of what I experienced with a supervisor (and not even just at work, but in other situations where I’ve tried to diffuse unwanted s*xual advances). I streamed the testimony at work and recall feeling very empathetic and his discomfort felt so real and raw- there were a few points where he was trying to articulate the general sense of unease, and alarm, and powerlessness and I was the same way when it was happening to me.

    3. And just like those cases, conservative men want to make it all his fault.

       1. Yup. The parallels were SO obvious yesterday and of course, powerful old white dudes don’t see ’em.

    4. A friend who is a prosecutor compared it to the date rape defense. Why were you alone with him? Why didn’t you just say stop? All he did was say he hopes to … So on…

12. I just had six rounds of interviews for a role at a large bank at a middle manager level. They expressed a lot of enthusiasm and I was interviewed by a handful of very senior people, but they have not reached out to me two weeks after they said they would set up another conversation. I reached out by email to the recruiter and the hiring manager. I would think it’d be quick and easy to give a “no” at this point or send an email saying they are still in their process and will get back to me. Why is that so hard?!

    Any insight into what could be going on here? I need to make some decisions about pursuing other options, but I don’t have another offer to go back to them with.

    1. If you don’t have another offer what’s the problem? Keep pursing all your options until you have an offer.

    2. My friend went through a similar situation at a national Southern-based bank as well. Radio silence for one month, then they came back to ask if you are still interested. She went forward with the process and then with another fly-in. Then radio silence again for three weeks and finally with her getting in touch they came back with an offer. Totally odd, and really does not reflect well on the firm. Unsure if it is a function of this disorganized bank/recruiting but she passed in the end.

    3. Hiring just always takes longer than you’d think. Nothing malicious. It’s fine to check in once after a couple weeks but I wouldn’t do anymore than that unless you have been told an offer is forthcoming and you have a competing offer you need to respond to.

    4. As soon as I saw “large bank” I knew what your vent was about. This is hiring at large banks. Hiring is slow and hiring at large banks is SOOOOOOO slow. Keep interviewing around and give them time.

13. My company has hired a new GM who I will interact with regularly. This person does not start until next month, however, the internal announcement said, “please join us in welcoming XYZ to PDQ.” I want to send this person a private message on LinkedIn welcoming them and doing all the usual rah rah introduction, looking forward to working with you stuff. However, after I composed the message, I had this fear that this person could have an assistant managing their LinkedIn and what if they haven’t made it public on their end that they are leaving their current position and [insert other anxieties]. Am I being ridiculous? I should just send it, yes?

    1. I should add, I will not be located in the same office with this person, so all work will be done via email and phone.

    2. Just send it. If a person is short-sighted enough to have another human manage a webs!te that is DESIGNED for networking and job-hunting… that is his/her problem.

    3. Don’t know your industry, but wouldn’t LinkedIn have been a job search tool? Wouldnt he likely have needed to keep his messages private throughout, if he was keeping his job search quiet?

       1. Good point! I assume that we head hunted him based on the level of the position, so it is reasonable to assume LI was involved. Thanks!

    4. If this person has been job hunting recently, they are probably maintaining control over their own LinkedIn since there may be a variety of messages on there related to their job search.

       Also, if the internal announcement didn’t make any mention of keeping things confidential for now, I would assume it’s public knowledge.

       Lastly, if a person is senior enough to have an assistant managing their LinkedIn account, they probably would give at least a month’s notice about changing jobs.

       So, I don’t think there’s any reason to be anxious. All that said, if it would make you feel better to wait a few weeks, there’s no downside, so do whatever makes you feel most comfortable.

    5. Just send it. If they’ve made an announcement at your firm, then he’s given notice at his current firm. I wouldn’t give it a second thought.

    6. Why not just wait until this person actually starts and send them a normal email?

       1. Yeah. In my experience you’d either be involved in hiring process and have their email through that, or wait until they arrive to be introduced to them. I don’t understand reaching out thru linked in, but maybe its more common in your industry?

          1. I did it when our new president was hired, as well. I got a very nice message back from the new president and already got a nice message back from the new GM. It may seem stupid to you, but I like to signify that I take my job seriously and that I am interested in working with new people who come to the company, especially with those who in theory have more power over my upward mobility (the approvals for hiring/promotions go all the way up to the president). I think it helps me stand out and be less of a cog in the giant company wheel. So far I have had a good response, plus it’s 2017, this is the kind of stuff that LinkedIn is for in my opinion. Making stronger and earlier connections.

14. Hi all, I have some job search questions. I left my NYC BigLaw litigation job as a mid-level for a two-year federal clerkship in another East Coast city. I’m currently in my first year. For various reasons I would like to move to the Bay Area following the end of my clerkship. My previous firm has an office out there and has made it clear that I would be welcome back, which is wonderful to have as an option, but I want to explore other ideas, in part because I don’t see myself there long term (I am pretty sure my late clerkship has taken me off equity partner track, and I don’t aspire to one of their perma-associate positions like staff attorney/of counsel; also they are very much a New York firm and I don’t think that would be the best way to get a foothold in the Bay Area market). I’m still not sure what I want to do with my life/career but ideally I’d go somewhere I’d want to stay a while. I have friends at a lot of the major BigLaw firms in SF, but would love to do some research/get more information on smaller firms and litigation boutiques. Where do I start? Also is it crazy to think a smaller firm would hire a 7th-year as a lateral off a clerkship? I’m willing to take a hit to my class year/salary if necessary (and of course I know that smaller firms will not pay BigLaw market in the first place; I’m fine with that). Any advice appreciated!

    1. No suggestions, but can I ask how it was applying to clerkships that far out of law school? What’d you do for letters of recommendation? Sometimes I ponder that as a possible step from firm life to whatever I decide I want to do after firm life.

    2. Have you taken the Ca bar? You can’t waive into Ca. And without that I’m not sure that any conversations are really going to be productive. If you have taken the bar, it becomes a very clear indicator to Ca. firms that this person is seriously looking to be here – bc who just takes the bar just in case?

       1. +1 to this question!

          1. Ack! I meant to the recs question above.

       2. I have not taken the CA bar yet (I’m admitted in NY). All of my friends/former colleagues who lateraled from NY to CA (BigLaw to BigLaw, though) took the bar between their two jobs, with the CA firm adjusting their start date to build in time to study/take it (in one instance a friend started at the new firm first and then was given time off later to take it, but that seems less common). I was planning to do the same – take it after clerking and before starting my new job. From my experience it seems that larger firms have no problem with this, but maybe smaller firms would? Unfortunately I cannot take time off during my clerkship (even just for the actual dates of the exam) so I won’t be able to take it until afterwards, and I would not want to leave the clerkship without a job lined up. Maybe this is a point in favor of just going back to my old firm first. But I would like to at least explore other options.

          1. I think you should be able to say in a cover letter that you are registered to take the bar exam at the earliest possible opportunity, and give dates. In my mind, that conveys sufficient seriousness.

             1. That’s a great idea, thanks!

    3. I would probably return to your firm’s SF office, move to CA, study for and take the CA bar and get sworn in as a CA attorney (this who process will probably take about a year – CA gives bar results six months after the test) and then begin job-searching. It will much easier if you have CA bar admission and a local address.

       1. this whole process*

          1. Yeah it’s beginning to look like that would be the best option. Any harm in searching/applying to other firms during my clerkship anyway, or would that just hurt me in any job search later on? I have much more free time now than I will back at a firm (9-6 versus crazy hours :)) so if there is something I could be doing now I’d like to do it!

    4. In terms of researching, I would start calling every friend you have in SF and asking them about their firms – and other firms. You can look at Chambers for specific practice group rankings and lawyer information. Start reading The Recorder and the Daily Journal to get a sense of what different firms are doing. And good luck!

15. I think I need a good shove from the hive…

    I have an opportunity to take a temporary position (managing a project that should take 8-10 months) in Europe. I recently quit a job I hated and have been serving as a consultant/advisor for a few projects, but for all intents and purposes, I’m completely free to take on the project in Europe. It’s not the most exciting project, but it’s squarely in my wheelhouse, and while the location isn’t exactly what I would have chosen, it looks to be a very pleasant place and it would be very easy to travel from for weekend trips etc. I have wanted to work internationally my whole career and this is a pretty great opportunity to have more or less fall in my lap.

    My hesitation is my boyfriend. We have been together for two and a half years, he is a loving and supportive partner, and I do love him a lot. However, I don’t think he is The One for a variety of reasons (primarily, different long-term views on life/the future). Taking on this contract might mean the end of the relationship, especially because it will open the door to other similar international work if I do a good job. My boyfriend has no interest in living abroad or in leaving the city where we currently live–his career is here and it would be hard to relocate.

    Intellectually, I know that taking this project would be a very good thing for so many reasons – it’s something I’ve wanted to do my whole career, it would be a good resume builder if I want to do similar work in the future, it’s a short-term initial commitment, gives me some space on a relationship I’m unsure about, etc. But I think I’m just feeling a little paralyzed at the prospect of hurting my boyfriend who loves me a lot and temporarily upheaving my life. Can I borrow some fortitude from you ladies?

    1. Take it. You can’t put your life on hold for a relationship you are tepid about because you are worried your boyfriend’s feelings will be hurt when the relationship ends. Ending a relationship in an empathetic way should be everyone’s goal (assuming the other person is not a jerkface) and, assuming you do that, you have nothing to feel badly about. It sounds like the writing is on the wall for this relationship and that you probably should end it regardless of whether you take this project. TAKE IT.

       1. +1

    2. Does he know you don’t see him as the one, think you have different values, and are just in it for right now expecting it to end?

       If not you’re cruelly stringing him along and should break up now.

       If yes, then he shouldn’t be surprised when you break up to move to Europe.

       You’re not doing him any favors here.

       1. +1. You need to break up with him, regardless of whether you take this job. You’re being pretty cruel, even if you’ve told him he’s not the one.

          1. +1 DT (probably not a) MFA

       2. To clarify, I said I don’t think he’s the one, but I definitely have some uncertainty there. I have shared with him very openly that even though we’re happy together now, I worry about our future together given that we seem to have different goals in life. I tend to be a worrier by nature and sometimes it’s hard for me to tell if my worries are rational or not. My boyfriend’s response to my worrise has been that as long as I love him (and I do), he thinks we should stay together and cross bridges as they come, and I have been fine with that approach. Neither of us want to have children, so we don’t have the time pressure to end a relationship in order to still have time to raise a family with someone else.

          So this is a pretty big bridge to cross, and like I said above, may very well be the end of the relationship, but hopefully, you can understand that there can be gray area between being totally certain and committed that someone is your life partner, and cruelly stringing someone along whilst waiting for the relationship to end.

          I’m grateful for all these responses because they definitely help reinforce for me that I would be foolish to pass this opportunity up, which is what I knew, but I’m grateful for the positive comments.

          1. If you’ve been together for 2.5 years and you’re still waffling, that means he’s not the right person for you…

             1. Anon at 10:51 .a.m. here – +1. If you were all in and confident in this relationship, you’d manage a defined period of time apart for a good career move for you. It wouldn’t cause you to immediately think break up. Also, I call BS on his “as long as you love me” line. Love is not enough. It just isn’t. Sorry.

    3. Go for it. Take the long view. In 10 years, you’ll be happier reflecting on the opportunities that this job afforded you rather than looking back on a dead-end relationship. That said, don’t hurt the guy more than necessary. A clean break is better than vague “but if I come back to the US we could try again,” and be clear about where you are in the relationship. It’s not fair to anyone for one person to stay in a relationship they don’t care about anymore.

    4. Lauren, go, you and Jason aren’t going to end up together! ;) (too old of a reference?)
       Absolutely do not miss this opportunity to do something exciting and potentially life changing for a guy you know isn’t the one for you anyway.

       1. Not too old of a reference and very on point! Don’t be the girl who didn’t go to Paris.

       2. So much this! I still SMH at Lauren.

    5. Just do it. Life is short, not doing things you want to do because you feel guilty is silly. You’re not going to marry this guy, so pull off that bandaid. If you wait, in a couple years you’re going to feel even worse.

    6. Do it. Really, do it now while you’re not tied down and emcumbered. I had an opportunity to do something like this when I was single and childfree and I passed on it, and now I so wish I hadn’t. I have a husband and teenagers and a mortgage now and it’s just impossible at this point.

       It sounds like an amazing adventure. Go!!!

    7. There might not be a better time to do something like this. Do it!

       If you are confident your bf isn’t the one, you’d be doing both of you a favor to break up now, regardless of whether you go to Europe.

    8. Take it. Agree with the sentiment above – life is short and opportunities like this do not come often.

    9. Take it!!! I spent the year right after college living in France as an au pair–obviously a very different experience than working abroad at a more senior level, but I had a great time traveling while I was there, and I learned so much about myself and about work cultures in other places. Came in very handy later on, and of course it was quite an adventure at the time!

    10. If you do not see him as your long-term choice, go & take the European assignment. You want international experience and this may open many new doors for you.
        He will understand (and should not be surprised if the communication is open) and your life choices should not depend on someone temporarily in your life.
        Go for it!

    11. Of course take it. Your carreer is more important then staying with a boyfreind who you will NOT marry, and overseas, I understand that the men are much more causal about $ex, so you will surely find yourself another boyfreind. Depending on the country, the onley reservation is that some men over there are not circumscribed, and you will need to be sure they are VERY well washed before doeing anything with them. But if they are clean, you will have a good time! YAY!!!

    12. Do it. I lived abroad after college and it was the best experience of my life. And dump the boyfriend; don’t waste your time (and his) with someone who isn’t the one.

16. Thanks Kay! I just ordered the skirt. I love it and I love that it’s shown in a longer length because I’m 5’11” and it should be just right on me.

    1. *Kat

17. I’ve been working out 5-6 times a week at an orange theory-type class (so 60 minute workouts, of which about 25 minutes is fairly intense cardio and the rest is is weight/body weight circuits). Does anyone else have a similar routine and consider themselves to be in really good shape? If so, how many calories are you consuming per day? I can never figure out the right balance to lose fat, gain muscle when I’m working out so much and even though everyone says to up your caloric intake, I’m always wary of that. I’m probably eating about 1,500 calories a day currently (I’m 5’4 and 130 lbs). Am I eating too little? Is it more about the kinds of foods I’m eating vs. how much? I don’t eat a ton but I also don’t have the greatest diet.

    1. It sounds like you’re not actually sure how many calories you’re eating, so why not start tracking it? Track everything for a couple of weeks without judgment, and then go from there if you think it needs adjusting.

       Also upping your calorie intake is an oversimplification of what you should do if you’re trying to gain muscle and lose fat. You might want to up it but also adjust your macronutrient balance to reduce sugar and increase fat and protein. But you can’t decide how to adjust without a good idea of what your baseline is.

       1. +1

    2. Start tracking your food and your exercise (use a heart rate monitor). You’ll be able to draw more accurate conclusions – if you say you don’t have the greatest diet, you’ll be able to see what might be missing and where you should make changes.

       1. thanks for both replies — I do have a heart rate monitor and it didn’t even occur to me to start using it again. I’ll use it tomorrow to see how many calories I’m actually burning. The treadmill says I burn about 250 for the 25-minute cardio portion of the class, and I’ve always assumed about 200 for the weights portion, but I know that could be way off.

          1. The calorie burn estimates on machines aren’t really accurate. I think they’re based on an assumption that you are a 180 pound man.

             1. that’s what I figured. I do input my weight into the machine before starting to run, but not my gender. I always wonder if putting your weight in affects the calorie count, because I’ll sometimes glance over at another woman’s treadmill (someone who I know does the “quick start” and doesn’t input their weight) and their calorie count is way higher than mine. But they’re probably just working harder!

             2. It sounds like you’re intuitively eating, but you don’t have a good sense of what you’re putting into your body. You can’t out exercise your diet, you just need to eat fewer calories than you expend (CICO).

                Join MFP, read the forums, and weigh your food since volume measurements can vary based on how dense you pack them.

                Calculate your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) and eat at 20% below that.

                HR monitors are only truly accurate for steady-state cardio (and even then, they can vary by 20%).

    3. It sounds like you are working out a lot (5-6 days a week seems like a bit much for a class of that intensity, if it’s similar to what I’ve done), and not eating very much. 1500 calories isn’t unreasonable, but for working out that heavily, that often, it’s on the low end. Are you hungry? My experience has been when I work out really hard but don’t eat enough, my body just holds onto everything.

       Right now, I’m working out (orange theory style) 3-4 days a week. I don’t count calories, but I know I eat a lot more on the days I work out. I also try to eat more protein on those days as well. The number on the scale is going down and I’m seeing changes in my body.

       1. thanks for your input. can you give me a rough idea of what your meals are like on the days you work out? I’m vegetarian which makes it harder to get a ton of protein without a lot of advance planning.

          1. Interesting you say it’s harder to get protein without advance planning. I disagree. I am also a vegetarian and have high calorie burning days due to fitness as well. Add almonds, peanut butter, avocados, chickpeas/hummus, etc., throughout your day and you will get plenty of protein. Or you can use a plant-based protein powder shake on workout days. I really don’t find it that hard to get enough protein and maintain my fitness level. I consider myself to be in good shape FWIW.

          2. I don’t like to eat a lot of meat, but I do eat eggs. I usually have 2 eggs with toast in the morning, but on days I work out (I work out first thing in the morning and eat soon after), I’ll have toast with 3 eggs. I’m usually ravenous a few hours later, so I’ll have some fruit and something else like some almonds or a string cheese. Lunch could be a salad bar – lots of veg, beans, some nuts and cheese, maybe some cottage cheese or something. I’m usually hungry a few hours later so I’ll have a protein bar as an afternoon snack. And then dinner which is usually haphazard and varies a lot. Last night I had cauliflower rice with turkey meatballs from Trader Joe’s (you could use something meat-free), with marinara and parmesan – all pantry staples for me so not a lot of prep or planning required. I was still hungry after that, so I had some toast. And a square of dark chocolate.

             Writing it all out, it seems like a lot of food, but I really try to listen to my body (ugh, I hate writing that because it sounds so woo woo, but it’s true) and if I’m hungry, I eat. I just try to make sure that what I eat is something that will fuel me. I really am ravenous the days I work out. I was concerned at first I would eat so much it would undo all the work I’d done in the morning, but that hasn’t been the case.

          3. No? Lentils, beans, tofu, hummus, peanut butter, tvp, etc. Getting enough protein is easy peasy. A “normal” day of eating for me would be toast with PB, coffee and banana for breakfast. Carrots, pita, hummus, and apple for lunch. Bean, rice, avocado, lettuce, corn, veggie, salsa burrito bowl for dinner.

          4. Last night for dinner I made quinoa “fried rice” with: a couple of cups of left-over quinoa, a pound of frozen spinach, a pound of frozen peas, chopped sundried tomatoes, and four eggs. Plus a ton of olive oil, salt, pepper, garlic, and red pepper. All stuff I keep in my fridge/pantry at all times, and it came together in about 10 minutes. High in protein and vegetarian, and didn’t require advance planning, except I suppose in the sense that I keep my freezer stocked with frozen spinach and peas for nights like last night when I have nothing made and need dinner.

             1. yum!

          5. I’m a vegetarian, too, and I think you’ll find it easier to eat more protein if you track it. I’m trying to think of things I eat that are high in protein — egg beaters (seriously, add a little when you fry whole eggs), egg white muffins, lentils, yogurt, vega one protein powder. When I track I can easily get to 100g, but it took me some practice to consciously eat higher protein foods.

       2. There are some really weird ideas about exercise here. 5 to 6 days a week of an hour class is NOT anywhere near being too much exercise.

          1. I don’t think an hour a day 5-6 days a week is too much per se. I think it’s too much if you’re doing an orange theory style workout every time, based on the intensity of the classes I’m familiar with. I think it’s a set up for injury and doesn’t give your body enough time to heal. But if you’re mixing it up – a few of those classes, a yoga class, whatever, it’s probably fine. My opinion though. I’m sure reasonable minds can differ.

             1. +1 5-6 workouts per week is my ideal, but I would never stress my body and risk injury with that many HIIT classes

    4. I do Orangetheory. I think I’m in pretty good shape from it. I have killer arms and strong legs, though it hasn’t necessarily changed my overall shape (I still am pretty bottom-heavy and disproportionate, though my legs and glutes are strong). As Torin said, cutting back on sugar and simple carbs is an important step, as is getting enough protein. I add peanut butter or almond butter to all sorts of things (swirling a big scoop in oatmeal is one of my favs, as is adding some to almond milk yogurt) because I find that I am starving after a morning workout and it is really easy to overeat or look to simple sugar snacks if I don’t get enough protein. I don’t religiously track calories, but I’d say I’m definitely closer to 1900-2,000 a day – maybe even as much as 2200 on days I workout.

    5. I’m almost your exact size, and work out a similar amount. That’s not too little for me to maintain my weight – but I have a sedentary job besides my workouts, and the makeup of those calories really affects how full I am, how much energy I have, and if I’m putting on muscle.

       I agree, start with just tracking your food for a few weeks – get a good idea of how many carbs/fat/protein you are eating – then adjust. I am happiest with my food and my results when I am eating more proteins and fat, and less carbs. For non meat options – hummus, lots of cheese, plain greek yogurt with ad-ins (protein granola or fresh fruit), meatless chicken patties, faux ground turkey crumble tacos. Also, try supplementing with protein powder – that’s what it’s for – supplementing when your diet doesn’t give you enough of something you need/want. I like mine with unsweetened cashew milk. If I feel like I’m falling behind on protein, I add in a shake per day to help.

       1. I am also sedentary aside from my workouts. I’ll make an effort to track, and to up my protein/fat intake. Lunch is really my weakness, but I like your suggestions.

    6. You mght try eating more fat and not a ton of protein (Dr Jason Fung’s research on intermittent fasting and fat is really interesting, IMO). Try to add avocados and nuts to your diet, if you don’t already eat a couple servings of them per day. I am 5’3″, 125lb and I used to do x-fit bootcamp 4 days per week. I considered myself to be in pretty good shape: strong arms, could do 20 pullups and HSPUs. I found that when I added in a lot of good fat (not just cheese and bacon grease), my weight dropped more than when I was loading up on protein shakes. I also ate eggs for breakfast, something junky for lunch like a caesar chicken wrap with fatty dressing, and alcohol plus carbs for dinner. All that to say: my diet wasn’t stellar. You could also try cutting alcohol – I drop weight when I do that but it never lasts long ;)

18. This is simple…stop wasting your time with a boyfriend that is not “The One”. Breakup. Take the position. Live your life to the fullest!

    1. Ugh. Sorry, that’s for Need Some Courage.

    2. And stop wasting the boyfriend’s time! If he doesn’t know you feel that way about the relationship than OP is being pretty cruel.

19. Has anyone read the Beautiful series of books by Christina Lauren? I just started, and um, wow. Any recs for similar books?

20. How should I dress for a Sunday date? Backstory is I’m going to meet up with a guy FB friend this weekend. We connected on FB after briefly meeting at an event last year. We work in similar fields, and last month I commented on a cool achievement of his. He messaged me, we chatted, he sent me the digits, and we’ve been texting every day. He invited me to come visit him, or offered to come to me, because we are 2 hours apart, which is disappointing.

    We have very full schedules, but we are making time to meet up for lunch on Sunday. I don’t want to look like I’m trying too hard, but this is the first date. We also have plans to attend an event on a random weekday in a week and a half, so a typical Friday or Saturday date may be a bit off, if it happens at all, pending Sunday’s success.

    Jeans and a nice top was my first idea, but it’s going to be high 80s. Is a dress trying too hard? The plan is he’s cooking lunch for me. I am not high maintenance and don’t want to show up overdressed.

    1. Dress. Not a fussy one.

       1. I feel like men often see a dress and think you are dressed up even if the garment itself is really casual. Do you have a casual skirt that could stand in for jeans with a fun top?

          1. Why is it that men think that?

             1. No idea but that’s been my experience. Not that I’m necessarily recommending indulging it. Just noting that it exists.

             2. Oh, no, I’ve noticed it, too. I’ll wear the plainest, most casual dress I own, and it’s still “You’re wearing a dress!”

          2. +1 to this. Men tend to think the most casual dress is super dressy.

       2. +1. Easy summer dress. If it’s sleeveless, maybe bring a sweater in case his place is overly air-conditioned.

          And have a great time!

    2. Jersey dress with casual shoe, like a flip flop or birkenstock.

       1. Please wear 2 shoes on your date!

          1. OMG, you know what she meant.

          2. One shoe is totally trendy right now.

             1. Only if you wear it with a one shoulder top.

          3. No, two shoes look like you’re trying too hard. Nothing says casual and laidback like showing up with only one flip flop on.

             1. This made me laugh out loud.

          4. I love this joke. Thank you!

             1. LMAO!!

       2. Ok this is why I posted yesterday asking how I would know whether I was out of style. I needed concrete advice like this. I’m throwing out all my right shoes as soon as I get home from work.

          1. NONONO!! Throw out your LEFT shoes!

             Whew!

             That was close!

             1. DANG IT. I need to hire a stylist.

    3. white jeans and an off the shoulder top

       1. +1. If you really feel like you’ll be too hot in jeans, wear a skirt. I wouldn’t wear a sundress on a date.

    4. Your first date is him cooking for you at his apartment? That’s an interesting choice.

       1. I think it’s great! He can cook and isn’t afraid to show me his place!

       2. It makes more sense since she’s driving two hours to visit him.

    5. I’d either do jeans with a cute fun top (off the shoulder would be good) or casual knit dress with flat sandals, like Jack Rogers or Tory Burch. Simple and cute.

    6. Shorts, a fun top, and flat sandals. Maybe add some fun jewelry too.

21. Looking for some relationship advice. Guy that I’ve been dating for 3 months texted me last night that we should stop seeing each other because our issue with scheduling dates seems insurmountable. He is coming over tonight to talk it through. The problem is that I’ve told him repeatedly that generally I need a date, time, and place at least 1-2 days before a date in order to add it to my schedule, while he prefers to pick a day and then decide on the time and place the day of. I am fine with occasional spontaneous dates but feel that his method is disrespectful of my schedule. We’ve had several discussions about this and tried having a weekly standing date night, but it doesn’t seem to be working. This seems like an issue that should be relatively easy to resolve and not worth ending a high-potential relationship over. Suggestions on how to resolve this conflict?

    1. You’re being too extra here. You have a day picked out, isn’t there a relative small time frame for the time? I think you need to loosen up a bit.

       1. Or at least find a guy who feels the same way.

       2. Yes, but I really appreciate having something to look forward to. And, the last minute planning means that we end up mostly grabbing dinner at a casual place, since other more fun activities require planning or reservations in advance. I’m fine with casual meals occasionally, but not for every time we get together.

          1. Can you suggest planning that thing you want to do? Like “hey, the band we like is playing, want to go next friday? I’ll pick up tickets?” Or are you suggesting stuff and he’s like “let’s wait and see the day of”, which would obviously torpedo your suggested plans? If it’s the second, it seems like you are not compatible, But if you have not been suggesting the fun activities you want to do, you should start.

             1. I agree. Take turns planning dates. When you plan, you get to set a date, time, and activity. When he plans, he gets to pick a date, an approximate window of time, and he’ll figure out the place when he pleases. You two have different planning styles, you have to learn to accept each other.

                I’ll also gently push back on OP thinking new guy is disrespecting her time. If he’s giving you a day and some kind of window then you can schedule the rest of your day. It’s not like he’s saying, sometime Saturday, so you clear your whole day/evening but it turns out he wants to grab a quick lunch and then leaves to hang out with his bros. I hope?

       3. You sound pretty tightly wound. Even if you can’t mend things with this guy, you might take this as a signal to work on your own issues.

    2. Well, he thinks it *is* worth ending a relationship over, so I wouldn’t be so dismissive of his complaints. Telling him that it’s not a big deal isn’t going to go over well. I’m more with your style when it comes to making plans, but not everybody is like that and it sounds like you two just aren’t compatible.

    3. You’ve both communicated your preferences and are set on them. The issue is not the preferences — the issue is the inability to communicate and compromise. If this is a big problem 3 months in, you’re probably better off ending things.

       1. Yup.

          Neither of you is unreasonable but this sounds like a basic incompatibility. If one of you isn’t willing to make it a price of admission, then you’re going to have to go your separate ways.

       2. Yes this! You’re both dead set on scheduling your own way and want the other person to agree. This isn’t a high potential relationship, you are incompatible because neither of you will compromise on a relatively minor thing.

    4. At a few months later than where you are at now I had a similar conversation with my boyfriend. I had a very busy schedule which he found difficult to deal with as he is generally more spontaneous. The compromise we found worked very well was to set aside one night a week (Wendesday for us) as a ‘date night’. I kept it booked in my calendar and we agreed to take turns planning the night. It ended up being a really good way for us to have dedicated time together and he enjoyed the challenge of finding new things to do. Several years later we don’t go out as much but its still nice to have that almost guaranteed night for just the two of us.

    5. Can you suggest alternating date planning responsibilities? For dates you plan, you pick out date/time/place ahead of time, and for ones he plans, he just picks a day and you play it by ear.

       I had the opposite problem with my bf early on – he always planned more formal/structured dates, which I appreciated, but sometimes I just wanted to hang out and play it by ear. So we alternated, and sometimes my “plans” were just “we’re going to grab dinner at the Farmer’s Market and then hanging out.”

       If you really like the guy, maybe try that sort of compromise for a while and see if things get better. Otherwise you might just be incompatible.

       1. Oh, also – at this point in my relationship with my bf, I also got frustrated because I felt like us spending time together had to be a whole planned thing and big deal, and I wanted our relationship to progress past beyond date-y feeling dates. To me, it was a natural progression of the relationship and conveyed that we could be comfortable around one another to not necessarily have to have “official” plans. To him, it would have been disrespectful to ask me to commit time to him if he wasn’t going to put effort into making that time together special. We eventually worked through it, but it definitely took some discussion and compromise around how we viewed our time together and was not just a difference of logistical preferences.

    6. “This seems like an issue that should be relatively easy to resolve and not worth ending a high-potential relationship over.”
       On the contrary, I think if something so trivial is creating such a big problem, it’s probably a sign you’re not well-suited to being a couple.

       1. +1

       2. +2

          Completely agree.

          You guys are very different personalities in this regard. He will continue to drive you crazy, and he will start to look at you as demanding/rigid/stressed-out etc…

    7. This could be a compatibility issue. You are a planner and he isn’t. Sometimes that can work and sometimes it won’t.

    8. I’d be more annoyed about the fact that he texted me to try to break up with me versus telling me to my face, than the scheduling issue!

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