Splurge Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Printed Silk Top

490 Comments

1. I like the fabric of this one but the pattern of the Vince Camuto one. For professional looks though, the cami-under-inappropriately-low-cut-top look doesn’t cut it for me. I’ve stopped buying tops that don’t have good decollete-area lines.

   1. I totally agree. The cami under the top also looks like dated early aughts fashion to me no matter how you slice it.

      1. Yup. I hate the look of a cami under a low v.

      2. On one hand, I agree with you because it is a look I worn a lot in college and law school in the 2000s. On the other, as a large chested women, my choices are either to always wear crew necks or to wear something under v necks and other lower tops. So, I still do it but in less of an intentional way, and more of a if this top shifts at all, I don’t have to worry about showing more than I want to.

         1. I mostly wear crew necks for this reason BUT if you want coverage for other tops I highly recommend using those belly bands meant to hold up pants during early pregnancy. It provides the coverage without all the extra fabric of a camisole.

         2. As someone else who is large of chest, I get my tailor to sew up deep Vs.

      3. For me, this top reads as very early aughts even without a cami, but I can’t put my finger on why that is. The cut makes me think of a JC Penney from that era, maybe.

         I do end up falling back on the cami-under-v-neck sometimes for work. I have broad shoulders and am somewhat barrel-chested, but don’t have large breasts. I feel like v-necks break that blockiness up a little, as does having a contrasting cami. I have been trying to avoid overtly looking too early-aughtish, though.

   2. Agreed! I am just done with clothing that requires layers, fussing, or endless adjustment. If I can’t slide something on and have it look right, I’m donating it. I’ve forced myself to finally acknowledge that I will never be the cool girl in wrap dresses; they just don’t freaking work on me.

      1. OMG so true. All of my wraps are self-unwrapping. I paid a sh*tton of $ for them — has anyone ever repurposed silk jersey fabric? Or should I just burn them because they killed my dreams of effortless elegant dressing?

         1. I feel that the DVF wrap dress is the beneficiary of a very successful PR campaign. I was around in the seventies–I saw it happen live! : )

         2. Pillowcases?

      2. +a million. Thankfully I figured this out early in HS as I stole my mom’s DVF wrap dress for 70’s day (thank you Loehmans) and that damn thing would.not.stay.closed. The stress of trying to ensure I wasn’t flashing people on NYC bus while holding onto a handrail was enough to say never again.

         1. Yep. I like faux-wrap dresses (Karen Kane) but actual wrap dresses are not worth it. Plus they always, 100% of the time make me look pregnant, which I am not.

      3. omg yes, this on wraps. I had one I loved, so I just stitched the chest-area shut from the back. It was such a relief to know my dress wasn’t going to dissolve around me.

      4. If you like the look of a wrap dress, I can’t recommend Karina Dresses enough. Not an ad, I swear. I own about 5 of the ‘Ruby’ style dress. It’s a faux wrap with more coverage up top. No taping or pinning needed. Some of the prints are a little twee for me, but I love them in solid colors.

   3. Damn, no, I love everything about the top pictured. Love it. Not paying $400+ for a top that I’d splash vinaigrette on day one, but I don’t begrudge anyone who can swing it.

   4. I’ll only wear a cami under a shirt if it’s the same color or very nearly the same color as the shirt. Or if the shirt is kind of see through (looking at you, Express Portofino shirts in any light color). Contrasting colors look very “This top is too low and I’m hoping you don’t notice.” So I only buy shirts that I’d need a cami with if they’re black or very, very dark because I only own (and only like) black camis.

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2. These colors (the dusty pink and the yellow) seem not to go with one another, and they are not flattering to the model’s coloring. Agree on being tired of having to wear a cami to make this look decent.

   1. I think it is her pale purplish lipstick that is giving her a corpse-like glow.

   2. Wow! You guys surprise me, I would’ve said she looks lovely.

3. Good morning! As I mentally transition from “emergency work from home” to “this is likely how we do our work for the next 6 months to a year,” I’m looking for tips from those who do so successfully, particularly if there are ways to reset bad habits acquired earlier in lockdown.

   I am an extrovert and have always been Team Office. (I have voluntarily WFH during week days less than 5 times in 5 years before this started. If I had more than 4 hours of work on a weekend, I’d often go in as well.) Earlier in the lockdown, the isolation made me pretty depressed and I was clawing my way through my days in survival mode. I’m in a much better space now literally and mentally, but still finding motivation challenging. (I have no caretaking responsibilities. Hats off to those of you who do.) But big law will only put up with that for so long and it makes me feel bad that I’m not performing at the level I expect. I don’t want to look back and feel like this was a lost year work wise, given that it will likely feel like that personally.

   I think a lot of it is I derive motivation from my interactions with my colleagues, from the sense of being a team working on a common goal. There is none of that now. Assignments come by email and no one talks. Others seem fine with it and I don’t think I can change corporate culture.

   Any tips on productivity, getting one’s grove back, and resetting now that it’s clear “working from home in a pandemic” is a long term situation and people will expect us to continue to perform as we did in the past?

   1. No tips but I am in the same place. I’m surfing fine but not thriving.

   2. I would say pick up the phone. One of my partners is quick to call about almost anything – case updates, checking in, edits on a brief – and it makes working from home much more tolerable.

      1. I’d email or text first. One of my colleagues calls me a lot and personally, I find it really disruptive. I don’t mind a call for something really important but for mundane stuff, let’s pick a time to talk so I’m not in the middle of something.

         We don’t have an instant message function though and I think that would really help. With my assistant for example we have this crazy email chain going back and forth constantly where IM would help keep that clutter out of my inbox. I should look into something for that.

         For the OP, I’m in a mental health rut as of this weekend too. I was sharing an office with my husband and he just got his own set up in our exercise room once we realized this is likely long term. I was feeling really down and lonely. I read an interesting article on kids, even teens with dinginess and separation anxiety during the pandemic and I definitely realized I had been velcroed to my spouse and probably driving him nuts.

         I really cleaned up our home office and moved all his stuff to his new work space. I then put a pretty lamp on my desk (stolen from a guest bedroom), bought a giant bouquet of flowers from the grocery store, and got a new bright pretty curtain from Target to make the space happier.

         I’m still depressed but I at least like my space. I also upped my Zoloft.

         I really feel for people with kids, or no one else in their house, or even you, OP who prefers the office. My depression existed outside of the pandemic and I really am much more comfortable working from home. However, I think my mental health may have fared better when I wasn’t able to “give in” and stay home all the time. It’s amazing how much better I felt just picking up the flowers and curtain this weekend. My husband has done all of our grocery shopping so I have rarely left the house.

         1. I just don’t pick up if I am in the middle of something. Personally, just because someone calls me doesn’t mean I have to pick up at that exact moment. If they need something, they will either leave a message, email me after they call, or Skype message me. I can then respond as needed when I am able to.

            1. Second this. Learning that the phone is not a summons is a very important skill. People can leave a message or send an email. You can get back to them on your terms. This can be employed strategically as well. I highly recommend never answering a call from opposing counsel unless you are expecting the call/know what it’s about.

         2. Agree. Random phone calls eat up a lot of time but I always feel bad declining them. Unless we’ve scheduled phone time, I strongly prefer email, text or IM.

   3. I worked from home (for myself no less) for 10 years, and have been WFH since March. My best productivity tips are:
      1. Establish a go to work routine (I still get up at the time I did when I worked in the office, do hair/modified makeup/get dressed out of pajamas–even if it is to put on clean sweats or leggings)
      2. Carve out a “work space” different from your living space if you can. I don’t have one right now but I used to have an office in a separate room that I could close off–being able to leave work behind and not thing about it is really important for me because I tend to not stop working ever.
      3. Each day have a list of things you want to get done, I always do that before stopping work for the day (starting with tasks I didn’t complete that day). It is super helpful to cross off the list.
      4. Carve out prep time in the morning–take a half hour in the morning to get organized for the day, lay out tasks, get coffee, prep your work space.
      5. Take actual breaks where you go outside/take a walk/get away from the computer and don’t do housework, house bills. Just take an actual break (including lunch breaks–sit down and eat lunch, make it a ritual).
      6. When the day is done put it all away. If you have an office in your house close the door and don’t go back in. I am working from my living room right now, and when the day is done I put all my work things away in a closet so it isn’t in my living space all night.
      7. Be kind to yourself. Productivity isn’t probably going to be what it was in the office, especially under these circumstances.

      Hope this helps! I think we are all struggling a bit.

   4. Can you volunteer for a committee, attend Zoom CLEs, and attend Bar events by Zoom and meet this need?

   5. I think Erin’s tips are great! I’m also an extrovert stuck at home and phone calls (even though I hate speaking on the phone normally) have helped recapture some of that “chatting in the office for small things” feeling. I also recommend the app/website todoist

      Disclaimer: I’m still not doing well with all this. I benefit a lot from getting out of the house to work. Even in grad school I never worked from home – I’d go to the library or a coffee shop

   6. Start trying to pay close attention to your days and notice the patterns of times when you are really productive and times when you are not. I have realized that I am super productive from when I start work up until my first meeting, and then I start to lose it a little. Consequently I try to start work around 6am and avoid morning meetings as much as possible. You might find the opposite! The other thing that’s helping me is keeping my phone out of arm’s reach, especially in the morning. The 5 minute Instagram break can turn into a lost hour really easily, and having to physically get up to use my phone gives me a moment to think about whether I really want to break focus or not. Those two things have not even remotely gotten me up to where I was before all of this, but now at least I don’t have to plug my timesheet to get to 8 hours with our “misc non charge” code as much as I had been.

4. The camisole only looks okay if it looks intentional. A top that is cut an inch too deep is a top that is cut an inch too deep.

   1. Agreed. I wore a lot of camisoles under cardigans in the mid-aughts (shorter cardigans to my natural waist), which was very ‘in’ at the time, but they were made to be worn that way, not just ‘throw a camisole under it so I don’t flash my office’.

5. Any recommendations on a mattress I can buy online? DH and I moved in to help take care of a family member and sharing the single bed from the early 60s is just not going to be a solution for the next few months. Side sleepers who prefer slightly more support.

   1. I’m a side sleeper and really like my Casper mattress. Cheap bed frame to go underneath (for air flow, to stop it getting mouldy) and Bob’s your uncle.

      1. +1 Casper. I was skeptical, but DH was all for trying it and I have to say, we both love it.

   2. If you’re looking for a cheap, deliverable mattress in single, consider IKEA. I’ve been really pleased with mine. I can’t advise on specific version, unfortunately.

   3. I love my Zinus mattress.

   4. The Serta mattresses at Big Lots are great. We have them at our beach house and like them more than our more expensive mattresses at home.

   5. I got the Tulo mattress in medium firmness, and I think it’s what you’re looking for – and very affordable. They’re sold at Mattress Firm.

   6. Dreamcloud. Worth every penny. Both my husband and I sleep great. I am a Very light sleeper and don’t feel him get into bed anymore.

   7. I think the Wirecutter has reviews of the online mattresses.

   8. Costco Beautyrest?

6. Has anyone had success arguing with Airbnb to receive a refund for a reservation that was affected by COVID? I cancelled a reservation on March 12 for a March 15 reservation when it became clear it was not safe or wise to travel (this was an international trip to the EU). At the time it looked like I was going to have to lose money, but Airbnb later changed the policy so that my cancellation should have been refunded. They are now telling me that because I didn’t request my refund in time that I am not eligible. This seems…ridiculous? Is it reasonable for me to bring up that they never notified me of this policy change in writing? Can I dispute this with my credit card?

   1. Dispute with your credit card.

7. Anyone else have a hard weekend? Work has been insane so I was really looking forward to the extra day off but I felt so aimless and sad. I desperately need a break from work, but apparently I can’t really enjoy taking a break from work right now. What a weird time.

   1. Yes, I find the unstructured time can be really challenging. (This is true for me even when not in a pandemic).

   2. I had this problem with weekends pre-covid. It may sound counter-intuitive, but what made it better was more work, but on personal projects rather than work projects.
      Mindless internet browsing and watching tv doesn’t usually relax me or make me happy. Instead, I started making sure I spent some of my time on weekends and vacations meaningfully making progress on hobbies, and that these were things that were important to me and gave me a sense of accomplishment. There’s still time for the mindless stuff, but filling a day with it doesn’t happen much anymore (and when it does, I just lean into it and treat it like a recovery/sick-day).

      1. +1. It was huge for me when I discovered how drained the mindless stuff left me and how much it had encroached on my life. Hobbies and defined interests are the way to go.

      2. Agree. Planning recipes and cooking for the week, which were normal weekend projects for me pre-COVID, plus my new hobby of cultivating indoor and outdoor plants, have given a sense of purpose to my weekends. Yesterday I took the opportunity to make a Keto dessert that we hadn’t previously tried, and everyone liked it, so it was a satisfying endeavor . But still, I did find this past weekend un-fun. I think part of it was the rainy weather we had in the SEUS.

      3. God, for real. I spent most of this weekend parked on the couch watching the Good Place, and I regret it. Actually doing stuff always makes me feel ten times better.

      4. Yes, planting my garden (from seed that I can get through the mail) has been everything to me. My home office desk chair hurts my back and I’ve found that a quick trip to the garden every hour or hour and a half makes it much better.

   3. The problem is that if you do anything but sit around, people tell you that you’re a selfish jerk who wants people to die. That does very little to provide a meaningful break from work (which is from home, so being at home isn’t a break).

      1. Give me a break. There are plenty of things you can do, including things outside your home. without exposing other people to your respiratory droplets.

      2. This is utter nonsense can we not this week?

      3. Tightening your grip on victimhood won’t help. Get some indoor hobbies.

         1. Right? How boring is someone if they can’t entertain themselves in their own home or nearby. Yoga in your garden or balcony. Actual gardening in yard or in pots on balcony. Learn a new language, learn to knit or crochet. Go for a bike ride. Go trail running. Go hiking.

            1. I generally agree with you, but wish your tone wasn’t so harsh. I’m someone who’s following social distancing orders, but with depression. Do you have any more advice on ways to make social distancing more bearable?
               For example, I crochet, but my skills are stagnant without being able to troubleshoot. Has anyone disliked homeworkouts but just kept forcing yourself to do one daily and eventually felt accomplished at the end? Any bugspray advice for my evening walks? I liked the advice someone else gave about putting everything in your calendar–especially the good things.

            2. Not the person you’re responding to, but I think for some people the issue isn’t not having any indoor hobbies, but that if you’re sitting around your house not working with a lot of time on your hands you will end up doing housework or chores and the long weekend or vacation won’t feel restorative. That’s certainly the case for me even though I have lots of indoor hobbies I enjoy. I need to go away to a hotel or vacation rental in order to feel like I’ve had “time off.”

            3. I could tell you a lot about why those suggestions are either inappropriate or already done (running? I’m postpartum and can probably outrun you), but let’s talk instead about you. You blithely assume that everyone has spacious balconies, gardens, homes with enough space for yoga, nearby running trails and bike paths, bicycles or room for a bicycle, etc., and then you’re condescending towards people who lack those resources. Maybe the new skill you should learn is empathy and shutting your mouth.

            4. @Jess. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. Can you youtube ways to troubleshoot your crochet? I’m totally ignorant on that. Yes, yes, a thousand times yes, just keep working out. Either you will eventually start to enjoy it, or it will remain a slog but you will feel better once it’s done. I’m currently experiencing the latter. Sometimes I just make myself do something for 5 minutes. Pushups. Crunches. Anything. There’s a ton of great, free yoga online. DEET for evening walks. It’s the only thing that works for me (I live in a swamp).

            5. Jess, what do you mean you can’t troubleshoot crochet? I’m a new knitter and I’m learning exclusively from YouTube. If you haven’t checked it out in a while, the videos seem really high-quality these days – much better than the last time I attempted something crafty in college.

               As for making social distancing more bearable, friends of mine have had success with standing Zoom dates (making it standing removes the “ugh have to schedule/coordinate it…” factor) and exercising daily.

            6. “You blithely assume that everyone has spacious balconies, gardens, homes with enough space for yoga, nearby running trails and bike paths, bicycles or room for a bicycle, etc., and then you’re condescending towards people who lack those resources. Maybe the new skill you should learn is empathy and shutting your mouth.”

               +1 million to this. Anonymous at 9:50, how privileged you are to have all of the resources and ability to do those things you list. Think about what it would be like to not have those things.

            7. So I don’t have ” spacious balconies, gardens, homes with enough space for yoga, nearby running trails and bike paths, bicycles or room for a bicycle,” and I’m doing okay.

               I’m feeling frustrated that when I was feeling stressed by a crowded commute and exhausted at the end of the day working in the office, I was told the issues were with me (I must be ill because I don’t enjoy these things that other people enjoy), and I was encouraged to medicate myself so I could be happier living that lifestyle or to meditate more or do more yoga. It’s starting to look to me like the mental health profession simply takes sides on what people should enjoy or prefer and pathologizes and medicates the outliers? Because people who enjoyed the way things were before are genuinely suffering now (I believe this), but my mental health has never been better; this is clearly what I needed all along.

            8. Anon @ 11:35 – YES! This introverted homebody who haaaaates the long commute, office small talk, nosy colleagues, etc. has never been better. For once, our lives are structured in a way that suits my needs and I’m happier than ever. I finally have time and energy (so much more energy!) for the people and activities that bring me joy.

            9. I just want to chime in here to say that even if you are privileged enough to have those resources/abilities, they are not a cure-all. A zoom hangout is not the same as an in-person interaction, and activities get old when you have been doing them alone for months. In my case, I do have a spacious balcony and a garden and a bike and go running and guess what, I’m still incredibly isolated and depressed because all of that is done alone. The psychological effects of isolation for long periods of time are well known and they are very much manifesting right now in a way that talking to someone through a screen isn’t going to fix. For me, a person with resources and several hobbies, the weekends are unbearable because they are unbearably lonely. Not because I’m boring.

      4. This seems a little overdramatic. I’m still in shelter in place, but I can still go on a hike, a run, lay out in a park or a park-like place, plan meals then make a run to the grocery store or Target to make them happen, try different to-go cocktails from different restaurants…
         Sure, I’m sure you could find some overly anxious person on the internet that would tell me these things are going to make people die, but…yeah… I’m not here to make the most overly anxious person feel like all is right in the world. If it’s legal and I’m being what I consider cautious enough, I’m good. Hopefully you can find that place too.

      5. The smugness of these replies is what’s wrong with the world.

         1. It’s not smugness, it’s constructive practicality, which some people just don’t want to hear right now. I realize some of those people don’t want to hear it because depression and that sucks but does not make these responses not constructive.

            1. +1. You can use this as an opportunity to grow or to lean in to defensiveness and privilege call-outs instead of recognizing the spirit of these posts, which is that we can all find things to do inside or outside right now, even if we’re in tough situations. Ruminating on how much things suck is absolutely not going to help.

            2. “+1. You can use this as an opportunity to grow or to lean in to defensiveness and privilege call-outs instead of recognizing the spirit of these posts, which is that we can all find things to do inside or outside right now, even if we’re in tough situations. Ruminating on how much things suck is absolutely not going to help.”

               Yes, shaming people for sharing their honest thoughts is always productive and results in behavior change. Way to go, Anonymous at 10:44; your comment is really motivating!

            3. Give me a break. “[I]f you do anything but sit around, people tell you that you’re a selfish jerk who wants people to die” is no one’s honest, considered thought.

   4. Yup. I am constantly hoping to feel accomplishment by getting yard work and home projects done, but the weather is just not allowing me to do it. Constant rain, cold snaps with frost, gale-force winds. I have so much that urgently needs doing–my mailbox is falling over from rot, my gutters need cleaning…it just won’t give up and let us have the spring. Hiding inside, seething about The Winter That Won’t Die, makes me exhausted and b!tchy.

      Plus I live in a red area, so everyone is all “Hurr durr, we could use some of that global warming.”

   5. Yep – the three day weekend made me realise how much I need the structure of a work day. I was up til gone 1am playing Sims on Saturday night?!

      1. Ha, I’ve picked up the Sims during quarantine, after years of not playing. Not sure what it is, except it’s easy and relaxing. DH and I are also playing Old World, which is fun but has a really steep learning curve.

         1. +1 – I don’t need a psychologist to tell me that having a world I can control is appealing… I’d never played the Sims 4 before (overdid it on Sims 2) but figured for literally 5 dollars I’d give it a try. So much more fun with all the different personalities!

      2. I downloaded Sims over Christmas but had to delete it because it took up SO much space on my computer. But I did like building houses a lot. Not so much the actual managing the lives of Sims, but building amazing houses has always been my favorite part of Sims. I wanted to be an interior designer for a bit as a kid after playing Sims a lot.

   6. I find internet/TV to be the most draining. Spending the same amount of time reading a book is far more restorative to me. I’m still working through the pile of library books I panic grabbed before they shut down, but I’ve heard good things about buying used books.

      I went for a good, long hard powerwalk this weekend and it felt great. It was the first time I exercised vigorously enough to sweat since this all went down.

   7. Uy this weekend felt like all the worst parts of maternity leave with no new baby to show for it or light at the end of the tunnel. My only salvation has been hikes relatively early in the morning when the trails aren’t too crowded.

8. My office (law firm) is requiring masks in public areas, including the copier room and break room. I am not required to wear it in my office. My office is the first office in from the lobby (through a secure door) and next to the copier room. I’m sure I’ll forget to use my mask. Where should I put my cloth mask(s)? Should I hang them on an eye level hook near my door, reuse the same one all day, and wash a load every weekend? Work gave me 2 and I ordered a 5 pack off etsy.

   1. You won’t forget! Write yourself a big reminder on your closed door.

   2. FWIW, I work in a healthcare facility (though my job has nothing to do with patient care), and our infection control department has specifically stated that unless the mask becomes “soiled” (i.e., with food or something I assume), it can safely be reworn for a couple of days. I don’t wear mine in my office unless someone comes in (rare) and when I’m not wearing it it rests on a clean tissue on my desk, also per infection control. I’m sure hanging it on a hook will be fine.

      1. ack – infection control is saying this TO ME, the non-patient-care worker. Not to people who have no choice about encountering millions of patient droplets. Obviously those masks should be changed on a different schedule.

      2. Yup – I’ve been working onsite this entire time. My office mate and I don’t wear masks in our office – only to meetings in the conference room, going to fill up my water bottle, etc. I usually bring in a mask on Monday and wear it through the week.

         Im ALWAYS forgetting to put my mask on. I’ve started wearing a buff as my mask. When I’m in my office, I leave it around my neck. That way I just pull it up over my face when I leave the room.

   3. I’d reuse the same one all day and wash a load everyweekend. For the spare one you keep on your door, I’d probably spritz with an alcohol solution at the end of the day. It’s not enough, but its something.

   4. I am in the same boat as you and I forget all the time — and remembers as soon as I see someone in a mask. I am sure it will become habit, it just hasn’t yet. And I reuse mine until I have come within 6 feet of someone else, then I use a clean one. I just hand wash them every night and put them on my drying rack overnight.

   5. I’d buy a few lingerie bags that you can keep near your door so you can easily stick the soiled masks in there for when you do laundry.
      I also REALLY appreciated the tip about ironing masks so as to sanitize them in between washings. I would not have thought of that, and the iron is obviously easily sanitized on its own.

      1. If the iron is hot enough to kill virus in the masks, surely the iron itself does not need to be sanitized? It would be like washing an autoclaved flask!

         I can’t search for the link now, but recent guidance suggests that the virus is not terribly stable on most surfaces, so if you just let the mask sit for a day or two, it’s fine. Of course if it has lipstick or makeup or lots of your own spit or snot on it, you might want to wash!

         Around here, the latest rear view mirror ornaments are masks.

         1. Yay! I’m glad it works for you! Note to make sure that your masks are 100% cotton or another ironable fabric so you don’t melt them… and watch out for the elastics if you have those –

            And PolyD, I took anne-on to say that the iron was self-sanitizing. The temp I’ve read is 140 to 150F. My iron is much hotter than that (300 degrees F plus).

   6. I know this will get me flamed, but it is what is it. I leave it hooked to my ears and pull it down to my chin while I am in my office and then pull it up when I leave my office. It’s better than forgetting IMO, but obviously not a perfect solution.

   7. If you drive, keep on hanging from your rearview mirror. Or somewhere similar. That way you can run back and get it if you need. ALso, the sun and heat will likely kill germs.

9. My family was conservative – I could wear pants, but no shorts, I could wear short sleeve tops but not sleeveless tops. After moving away at 18 I have started to wear shorts and tank tops. I’m in my 30s now. I’ve tried on shirts like this wrap top but have never been able to “get used” to V neck tops. I’m not sure if it’s my body shape (I’m pretty flat chested) or my upbringing. Has anyone decided that V necks aren’t for them, or figured out how to get over feeling too exposed?

   1. Honestly I’ve decided that I have a cold chest. Like, seriously, if my sternum is exposed in air conditioning and then I put my hand on it, dang, I’m cold! But maybe that’s me – the tops of my feet get cold, too! I only wear plunging Vs for date nights or special nights. If I wear one to the office you might not know…. I might have a scarf draped over my chest just-so.

      1. I’m the same way. I can’t stand the feeling of air blowing on my sternum or the tops of my feet.

   2. I wear v-necks all the time; I never wear LOW v-necks that leave me feeling exposed. Lots and lots of tops are cut with ridiculously wide/low v-necks and scoop necks, and I just bypass them, because I’m done futzing with necklines.

      1. Same here. Can’t be bothered with that nonsense.

   3. I think this kind of wrap vee is hard to keep in place on most people. I’m not sure who they fit well.

      1. Yeah, this top looks like it really won’t work well on a lot of bodies, for a lot reasons. I see something that will either shift a lot on the bottom so I can’t raise my arms or on the top, where I won’t be able to bend over if there’s another person around or turn sideways in a chair without flashing someone.

   4. I’d suggest getting a high v-neck top. As a petite, busty woman, I really appreciate the lands end petite t-shirts because then the v-neck isn’t too deep. My Mom encouraged me to be pretty modest, and she never had a problem with small v-necklines. A lot of deep v necks work best on tall people or for date night. With a wrap style, you could always try to wrap it tighter/with a higher neckline and pin or sticky it into place. It’s shouldn’t be about modesty, but comfort, and you being able to access a variety of styles.

      A lot of v-neck sweaters aren’t too low cut either, and I just wear them as shirts because I run cold. I suggest you keep trying because I’m not sure crew neck tops are flattering on busty women or “flat” women. Have you tried bateau or ballet neck tops? They’re a lovely neckline–the only problem is making sure bra straps don’t show.

      Also, I’d advise you to keep trying shirts that you feel comfortable in because a non-crew neckline is great for framing your face and neck.

      1. +1 to v-necks being more flattering for the bust and vertically challenged. Crew necks are the enemy.

   5. I’m pretty flat-chested, at least in comparison to the rest of me, and I really don’t like wearing V-necks. I feel too exposed. It’s not even a modesty thing; it just isn’t comfortable to be adjusting my shirt all the time so my b**bs are covered. I’m a big fan of scoop necks. And sometimes a subtle V is okay, but those are hard to find.

   6. I’m incredibly fussy about necklines because I have contradicting goals–I feel strangled by a collar against my neck, but I’m super photosensitive and need to wrap up like a mummy. I find a boatneck or balletneck to be a good compromise between the two.

   7. I feel like v-necks aren’t for me. I love boat necks for cute tops.

      FWIW, every year with the change of the seasons, I always feel super exposed when I pull out my modest scoop neck tops. The change from turtlenecks, et al, to summer shirts doesn’t sit well with me. I’ve also just concluded that I like being more covered.

   8. Wrap tops != v-neck. I don’t wear wrap style anything because they’re unwieldy, don’t flatter many folks (including me) and seem constantly in danger of a wardrobe malfunction.
      On a related note, I grew up somewhat similarly, with an additional rule that flip-flops were NOT to be worn in public. I live in Florida now and was in my 30s before I tried it. It was amazing :-)

   9. These sort of wrap tops are not for us – I’m also flat chested. At least, that is my opinion for me. It is fine for that to be your opinion for you. A (very young…) Nordstrom shopping advisor once hinted to me that my skinny/bony/flat chest was not flattered by deep v-necks. She was really…. not nice about how she indicated this, but she is right.

      For me, I realized that my flat chest is flattered most by interesting, higher necklines. Sleeveless, but with a crew neck or mock turtle neck looks great, and is very modest and looks really good if you have a long neck. I also love interesting higher necklines…. like the MM LaFLeur or the Fold necklines. Asymmetric/boat neck or even just a scoop neck etc… are usually very flattering and pull the eye up to the face.

   10. I’m also flat chested and most V necks are too low so all they do is gape because I don’t have enough br3asts to prop the fabric up. I had success finding a couple of higher V necks that I’m over the moon with, ones that are V shaped but don’t plunge so low. They are very rare alas.

   11. I don’t like v necks, especially for work. First, I don’t think they’re very flattering for me. Second, I also find them impractical. If it’s warm enough for a good deal of my upper chest to be exposed, then it’s typically too warm for me to be comfortable in long sleeves. If it’s cold enough for long sleeves, I’m usually freezing in a v neck or blouse that’s not buttoned up to my chin. So I opt for crew neck or turtleneck shirts most of the time. Even in hot weather when I wear lower cut short sleeved or sleeveless tops, I try to avoid v necks because I don’t love how they look on me.

10. For those of you who have been told you cannot come back to the office until 2021, have you thought about renting a vacation rental or something to break up the monotony? We live in a 1 br, and while I am not sure if we want to move right now we could probably do a 1 month stay in a vacation rental on a lake/beach somewhere driving distance to give us some space and break up the day to day. Anyone else thinking something similar?

    1. Yes isn’t everyone?!? Literally everyone I know who is working from home all summer is considering this. Vacation rentals are rapidly selling out. I wish I could but I can’t afford it.

       1. +1

       2. I tried to find an AirBNB for a vacation this summer (before you flame – we would drive, and once we got there we would only do outdoor activities and pickup takeout food), and the site is just decimated. I’m not sure if it’s people booking longterm rentals, or owners having to sell their properties because they lost their jobs and can’t pay the mortgage, but there was like absolutely nothing I would ever consider staying in. It was either tiny, completely dilapidated shacks or decently nice houses for $700/night. My husband isn’t comfortable staying in a hotel yet, so I guess we’re not going to have any kind of vacation this summer :/

          1. Probably some combination of that plus people like me – we had a vacay rental we also used and pulled it off the market. The margins are slim to begin with and the idea of strangers in my house right now was too much.

          2. I feel like I would be much more comfortable in a hotel than an AirBNB. At least, for a few days – I would have a stack of towels left when I checked in and wouldn’t have housekeeping come in and clean. I’d probably bring some wipes and wipe down the remote, doorknobs, maybe bathroom handles.

             But I’ve never been comfortable with the whole AirBNB concept, just seems like there is too much that could go wrong.

             1. Do you never use VRBO or other rental companies for a vacation house? sooooo many Airbnb’s are just rental properties with a central manager (rather than someone’s home). This is what makes them bad news for communities in that it takes otherwise-available homes off the regular rental or sale market, but makes them fantastic for self-isolating in a house by yourself that was cleaned just like a hotel room would be, but with the capability to be self-sufficient during your stay (having your own kitchen, laundry, etc.)

             2. We were looking to rent a cabin or house with entry via lockbox so we basically didn’t have to interact with another human at all. At a hotel you have to interact with someone when you check in and out plus at most hotels you have to walk through a common area to get in and out of your room. AirBNB does seem much safer to me (as far as virus goes). Personally, I’m also comfortable staying in a hotel (especially give that it would likely be well less than 100% full) but my husband isn’t.

    2. Yes, why not spend WFH summer at the beach?

    3. It’s a nice dream, but after seeing how the epidemic exploded in my uncle’s vacation town (his permanent residence) in the Rocky Mountains and how much damage it did to their small critical access hospital, it’s a no from me. I’m also seeing lots of towns and islands request for people to stay away.

       1. +1.

       2. I think, like with everything, there are degrees of risk. If you go somewhere that’s a relatively short drive away and plan to drive home at the first hint of symptoms, your odds of burdening the local hospital system are very small (since people who get sick from this don’t usually get seriously ill quickly). You can also mitigate your risk to the local community by not going anywhere indoors and getting food delivered or picked up via contactless takeout.

          1. Yeah, that’s something we considered. A week at a cabin in the woods 30-45 minutes from our city, just for a change of scenery. If you were ill, you’d go to the same hospital as it’s the same health board.

          2. Yeah, I think that would be the more reasonable approach, but you could improve even further by bringing your own groceries from home. One of the bigger issues I read about was tourists slamming remote or outdoorsy destinations (“I can social distance outside!”) and not only burdening the local health system, but clearing out the grocery shelves. Some of these towns are served ONLY by mom-and-pop shops and there wasn’t enough supply for locals.

             1. Shouldn’t they be used to tourists, though? They can always stock more stuff, there isn’t a shortage.

             2. I would guess the tourists are buying way more at the small grocery stores than they would on a normal summer vacation as they will probably eat out a lot less, and I think we all kind of have a stock up on stuff just in case mentality, even on vacation, as you don’t want to have to run back for a roll of paper towels in the current environment.

          3. I think it also matters a lot how small/isolated the vacation destination is (if you’re talking about a beach that’s adjacent to a major city, the issue of burdening local services is less) – and I would really take into account whether the local government has asked people not to come. No matter what my own judgment of the risk was, if local officials have asked visitors to stay away, I’d stay away.

       3. Yes, this is happening so badly in the PNW. I’m trying to convince family to come stay with me because in their resort town they literally cannot go walk the dog due to crowds of tourists (mostly not wearing masks). Being locked indoors in what is essentially “servants quarters” without any of the benefits of being able to enjoy the natural attractions of the area.

    4. We know people doing this. Not us (but I wish

       I now think that driving to mountains or the beach as a day trip would be what I do this summer. Gas is cheap and I have literally nothing else to do with my time. And friends report that most places have bathrooms open (previously, you could buy at gas but not go in; ditto fast food restaurants). 2 hours one-way to the mountains. 4 hours one-way to the beach.

       #RoadTripSummer

    5. Yup, and it’s booked. Glad we jumped on the idea before everyone else did because we got an absolute steal.

       1. Should add – it’s within an hour’s drive of our actual home, and has its own pool. So we will continue to be distancing, limiting grocery shopping, getting contactless takeout, etc. but would obviously be able to return to our own home and hospital system if we developed symptoms.

    6. My neighbor has a sprinter van he converted into a camping van and is just vagabonding it each weekend.

    7. It’s a nice idea but we rely on daycare and a babysitter during COVID times. We wouldn’t have either if we relocated somewhere for a month. But, if that weren’t a factor, I’d be all over it.

       1. Kind of similar, I have young kids. While the idea of being somewhere for a month or what have you sounds nice at first glance, I think given the situation we are all in & likely to be in for a few months (very few things open or opened at limited capacity etc. etc.) after more than a week I think I would really regret not having all of our toys, books & resources that we have at home to keep them entertained… cause it’s not like we would be able to do normal vacation entertainment stuff, especially if I’m still working. I could maybe see if we had older kids that we knew would be entertained by a pool all day, but ours wouldn’t & even if they would they require constant, alert supervision still in a pool.

11. I need to improve my command presence. Because our covid response roles are different than our normal roles, I’m now leading meetings where I’m always the youngest one there and often one of the only (if not the only) women.

    1. Try to consciously project your voice from your diaphragm, not your chest or nose. This will give you a stronger-sounding voice. Smiling when you speak is a good tip for both sexes, IMO, to help sound more positive and charismatic. Also, good posture helps a lot.

    2. Have you had any media training? There are probably videos online, but recording yourself talking (like during a work call) and then playing it back can really help you ‘catch’ what your particular tics are.
       Generally, slowing down when you speak, pausing to catch your breath or take a sip of water instead of saying ‘uhm, ah, you know,’, eliminating ‘up-talk’ (ending your points on an inflection, unless you’re asking a question), and jotting down your 2-3 main points before you speak are all tips I give/use often.

       1. Hmm I’m going to try this today! Thanks

    3. I found sending out an agenda and then firmly walking people through it did the trick for me. At the end, firmly recite the take aways and tasks before next meeting. Your team members will get used to turning to you to run the meetings.

    4. Tory power stance?

       Just kidding, but as a short woman, heels can help. But more important is to try to move purposefully, speak slowly and authoritatively. Try to appear unruffled.

       I don’t particularly suggest smiling if you tend to be a smiley person as it is.

       1. It’s more of a TV tip, but I’ve done a lot of media trainings and both men and women were encouraged to develop a ‘thoughtful listening face’ – you don’t want to have to hold a smile if the connection takes a bit to kick in (it turns into a grimace) but a polite, engaged, half smile (smile with your eyes as per Tyra Banks) works well for when you’re being introduced. While active listening raising your brows and turning the corners of your mouth up a bit (sounds weird, but it’s enough to prevent frowning) is a good trick. Fwiw, I think Duchess Meghan does this really, really well, if you need a mental picture.

12. Hi – I’m considering a low-end ultrasonic jewelry cleaning machine. Are they worth it? Are the mid-range that much better?

    If you were my friend and had one locally, would you let me borrow it (if I bought my own solution) so I could see if it worked? Is this the kind of thing friends would or could pass around – like if I went halfsies in on one with my sister or something, is that possible?

    Just trying to feel out all my options regarding getting clean(er) jewelry but also not spending or buying too much. Clearly I am conflicted. Thoughts?

    1. Hallo, my (now) husband got one for me shortly after we got engaged and it’s pretty great. We tend to pop our jewelry in there once every couple of months or so and it keeps our pieces looking shiny and clean. It’s very low effort (takes 20-30 mins for my e-ring to be clean) and not super expensive – I don’t remember it being more than $150 CAD. You could absolutely share it with family or friends, I usually let my sister use it when she visits because it’s so easy.

    2. We used them when I worked at a jewelry store during college. They leak like crazy! The vibration works the hinges and seams loose over time, until the fluid starts seeping out. If you buy or borrow one, always use it in a sink or tub.

       I just do a quick blast from the air compressor (canned air would work also) and then gently scrub using plain toothpaste (not gel, not whitening formula, and not with baking soda) and a soft toothbrush.

    3. I’m not sure what you’re trying to clean, but this pen is AMAZING. Amazing amazing amazing.

       https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00459VM6I

       1. Seconding this product! So easy, and I’ve bought several as little engagement gifts for friends!

    4. Is this seriously a great concern right now?

       1. Stop it.

       2. This is a really inappropriate response. The question is completely appropriate for a fashion blog and frankly I enjoy the threads about fashion and pop culture wayyy more than I enjoy the threads about coronavirus and quarantining. If you want to immerse yourself in our current state of affairs and not think about anything else, that’s your lookout. Not everyone has the same motivation. Check yourself, please, before you post things like this. FFS.

          For the OP – I have a cheaper ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and why I love it is that it gets an antique ring I inherited from my grandmother really clean, and the ring is hard to clean otherwise (lots of intricate detail). I also really like the pen that Anon at 11:24 posted – it works really well on most of my jewelry. But for other things the ultrasonic cleaner does a fantastic job.

       3. I have been using extra time at home to catch up on many small tasks that have been on my to-do list in some cases for years. Cleaning seldomly worn jewelry is one of these tasks for me, so I am following with interest!

       4. No, it’s not. I’m bored and was considering my jewelry and how gross it is.

          Sorry I did not mean to clog up the 9-1-1 emergency high-end work fashion blog with non-emergency questions!! Please return to your regularly scheduled discussion of fleece tights, camisoles, and whether Kat is crazy for still recommending bolero jackets. (Stop trying to make bolero happen!)

          Or, just say fooey and move on!

          1. Haha good answer!

          2. Omg, I miss the days of the Eliza J bolero and how often it was featured as workwear. That was a hilarious time.

       5. It may not be a “Great Concern” but this is, after all, a fashion blog, so it’s really ok for people to talk about home manicures or crochet or nail polish colors or new yoga poses or what they think of the wrap top featured – it doesn’t have to be All Covid All the Time.

       6. Did you make a wrong left turn at NPR?

    5. I have this one and I think it works great. https://www.amazon.com/Magnasonic-Professional-Ultrasonic-Eyeglasses-MGUC500/dp/B007Q2M17K

13. Does anyone have a recommendation for a fabric shaver that could work on a couch? This is for an old fabric couch that has been used as a scratching post a little too often by a cat, so it has some loose threads and some patches where the fabric is sort of pilling. It will be reupholstered eventually, but in the meantime is a fabric shaver (plus scissors for the longer threads) the best way to go? Is there a different tool I should be looking for? Thanks!

    1. Really pleased with this guy. Has different “height” settings. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008I25368

       1. Thanks!!!

14. can someone explain why mask wearing is being portrayed as a civil liberties issue? how is it any different than being required to wear a helmet when you bike ride (which is the law in some areas) or wearing a seatbelt in a car? it’s just a public health/safety measure. no one is dictating what color your mask has to be or pattern, etc.

    1. Mask-wearing is more like smoking in public than bike helmets or seatbelts, so even less of a civil liberties issue. Not wearing a mask endangers others.

    2. It IS just like those things – but don’t you see people ride a bike in the city without a helmet all the time? Same with seatbelts. People decide not to follow rules. The one difference I see is that stores are not letting customers in if they don’t have a mask so these rebels are being denied access to goods and service.

       1. What I find hilarious is that nobody objects when a store says “no shirt, no shoes, no service.” And arguably shirts are far less necessary to public health than are masks…

          (Also, FWIW, it’s not the law in most parts of the US for adults to wear bike helmets, although I always do it and encourage others to do it. I point this out only because it’s a really common misconception that ends up being problematic when a cyclist is killed by a driver – but that’s a matter for another post.)

          1. People definitely flout that rule too, I have definitely seen shirtless men in stores – including muscle tanks cut so far it doesn’t qualify as a shirt for me.

             Bike helmets are required by law in my city.

             1. I live in a university town with lots of bikes. You’d be surprised at how few helmets I see on the students. It’s one of the toughest universities in the US to get into – you’d think these kids would be smart enough to want to protect their brains.

             2. They think they are smart enough to avoid accidents, ha.

    3. Ugh, who knows? I suspect the venn diagram of people who refuse to wear seatbelts or bike helmets and those mobilizing against masks has a significant amount of overlap. But god forbid we ask people to make a small inconvenience to keep themselves and others safe.

    4. It’s not about the masks, is the short answer. Especially because a lot of the conflict is arising in situations where it isn’t the government requiring the mask, but rather a private company (like Costco). But honestly, I find the whole thing fairly exhausting to talk about, so I’ll point you to this article from the Detroit Free Press, which I think does a pretty good job of summing up the issue: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2020/05/15/masks-coronavirus-politics/3081810001/

    5. Because the Russians want to divide us. Literally, that’s why.
       No offense to any actual Russians or people of Russian descent on this forum, but if you are employed by a troll-bot factory (Hello I see you up there!) then please DIAF ok now thanks

    6. (I’m fine with wearing a mask, just playing devil’s advocate here.) I can see the argument when it comes to having to wear a mask just to leave your house. Bike helmets and seatbelts aren’t really analogous because they’re requirements for the privilege of operating a bike or car, and you have no constitutional right to ride a bike or drive a car. You do have constitutional rights to liberty. However, private businesses can clearly refuse entry to people not wearing masks, that doesn’t even seem debatable to me.

       1. Requiring one to leave your house seems a bit nutty, but maybe the angry people live in highrises where you have shared hallways and crowded elevators you have to wait in line for? If I want to leave my house, I walk out the door into the outside.

       2. The guy that broke the target employee’s arm when he was told to put on a mask disagrees with you.

          It’s astounding to me that people value their ‘mask free’ liberty over other peoples lives. Covid has long surpassed the number of Americans killed in Vietnam and yet ppl are all ‘no mask for me’? It’s nuts how little we care about our fellow Americans. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/28/846701304/pandemic-death-toll-in-u-s-now-exceeds-vietnam-wars-u-s-fatalities

          1. I don’t think it’s this black and white. Let’s get off the mask topic for a moment, because so much emotion and energy is plowed into it right now. Consider texting or using cell phones while driving. This is demonstrably dangerous in a way that can ruin your car, someone else’s car, leave you or someone else maimed, or kill you or someone else. And yet people do it all the time. ALL THE TIME. A specific, enforceable law has to be passed for them to stop doing it, and even then . . . it’s a hard sell.

             Human beings do not like doing things that are difficult, uncomfortable, or painful for them, especially when the reason to do it isn’t clear. Wearing a mask because you might possibly be sick without having any idea you are, and in a passing encounter with someone you might breathe on them in a way that gives them a virus . . .that’s a hard sell unless you’re naturally inclined to follow rules or place a high value on safety and will take whatever cautions are necessary to ensure it. And many people aren’t and don’t and won’t.

             1. Yes. Also, people STILL drink and drive! It took a decades long marketing effort, massive efforts of MADD to even get drunk driving to be something that people thought was a big deal. And even know after decades of PSAs and lots of public shaming, it’s STILL something that happens with alarming frequency. Texting and driving is also a great example because even though there’s a lot of data that it’s as bad as drunk driving, people still do it all the time. I suspect it will take many many years before we can convince people to not text and drive. Human beings are strange and complex creatures.

             2. You are completely right, but I just want to remind everyone that while MANY people aren’t and don’t and won’t, that’s not MOST people. Most people are reasonable, moderate, they care about others and support public health guidelines. Part of the issue is that the more outrageous a piece of news, the more it gets amplified, to the point of distorting reality significantly.

       3. +1

          I do not wear a mask every time I step foot outside my house. That isn’t the rule or even the principle of the rule. I do dutifully wear one for indoor activities like shopping, understanding that my mask is protecting other people against the risk that I am an asymptomatic carrier and everyone else is doing likewise. Private businesses can set whatever rules they want.

          1. Here on Long Island there is at least one town requiring a mask in all public places, even where you can socially distance (ie in a park, whilst exercising.) so it’s not a brief grocery run, it’s the only way to leave your home. If you don’t have access to a car, that is your entire existence outside of your home. I’m a little worried that it’s not two year problem covid problem, but just life now, forever. Never smiling at a stranger forever? Never speaking to a stranger without a mask? I’m not sure that I’m on board with this.

             1. This won’t be forever, and I say that as someone who isn’t a vaccine optimist. Within a few years, we will either have a vaccine or herd immunity or the virus will have mutated to be much less deadly. One of those three outcomes is practically guaranteed.

             2. Why on earth do you think it’s forever? It’s not. Try to take it one day at a time.

             3. Because we’ve flattened the curve but seem to have accepted that masks are an acceptable requirement for all public spaces, even outdoors without another person nearby. It seems like we know that is not a risky scenario for spreading covid and yet we’re ok with people never smelling fresh cut grass unless through a filter, never feeling the cool breeze unless around their eyes.

                The concept that another person breathing air near you is akin to an assault can and will be extended to the seasonal flu, the common cold and any imaginary disease any hypochondriac can conjure up.

             4. If there is anything this pandemic has brought into sharp focus, it’s the amount of influence that local government has over your day to day life.

             5. “I’m a little worried that it’s not two year problem covid problem, but just life now, forever. Never smiling at a stranger forever? Never speaking to a stranger without a mask?”

                … do you really think that this is a forever thing? Come on. That’s way over the top.

             6. It’s not over the top. I don’t see how the concept that an asymptotic person *could* be spreading *some* deadly disease ever leaves us. The governor doesn’t say it’s temporary or acknowledge that they are uncomfortable. Neither does anyone on this board. I’m in the vast minority that hates wearing them i guess. Maybe the unsaid part is that people don’t think it’s a big deal BECAUSE they stop the spread, but that’s definitely not what you’re all saying. If people act like it’s pleasant to wear them, I don’t see how things ever change.

             7. So, so true, Cat. If I lived in Long Island, I would be more stressed and not trust the public health department to issue reasonable guidance! Let’s hope that they will course-correct and stop requiring masks if you are alone in nature etc.

             8. “I don’t see how the concept that an asymptotic person *could* be spreading *some* deadly disease ever leaves us.”

                Alright. I don’t know if your anxiety is spiking and you’re engaging in catastrophic thinking or if you’re tr0lling, but this is not rational. This concept that you have articulated has always been known. We know that asymptomatic spread of diseases is a thing, this has predated this corona virus and will continue to happen after. And yet, people did not wear masks (unless, potentially, they were already immunocompromised), no one advocated that people wear masks everywhere, all the time. I’ve been following all of this pretty closely and never heard anyone indicate that we will be required to wear them forever. The governor doesn’t need to say that it’s temporary; that’s obvious. Nor does he need to articulate that they are uncomfortable; that’s not obvious and it’s understood that it’s a trade off. Yes, most rational people agree that the downsides of wearing masks (inconvenience, comfort, general aesthetics, ability to smile/read facial expressions) are outweighed by the benefits at this time. That in no way implies that this calculus will always be the same. The idea that everyone (on this board or otherwise) thinks they’re pleasant to wear and/or not temporary is just not grounded in reality. Kindly, I think you need to seek help for anxiety.

             9. Lol when do you even interact with strangers? Where I live everyone has their AirPods in their ears and is fully immersed in their own private world. You seem nostalgic for an era that is long gone.

             10. “Because we’ve flattened the curve but seem to have accepted that masks are an acceptable requirement for all public spaces, even outdoors without another person nearby. It seems like we know that is not a risky scenario for spreading covid and yet we’re ok with people never smelling fresh cut grass unless through a filter, never feeling the cool breeze unless around their eyes.”

                 As I mentioned, I’m old enough to remember when seat belts finally became A Thing. (I remember taking my drivers’ test and my mother saying – wear your seat belt, they like when you do that, LOL – because it really wasn’t the norm to wear seat belts. Anyway, at the time, it was all “oh I feel so restricted and it wrinkles my silk dress” and so forth, and then we all just shrugged it off and moved on. If masks really are the wave of the future, they’re going to be only in public / enclosed places and so maybe that’s the new normal for a while. So be it. I just can’t waste brain cells sweating this.

    7. It’s not about the masks. Justified or not, the lockdowns are a massive infringement on liberty that were sold as a 2 or 3 week measure, now extending for months on end. At this point, people’s “tolerance bucket” (for lack of a better term) with government regulation is empty. It does not matter if the regulation is good or bad; if the regulation did not exist in February, people do not want it.

       1. I agree. I think it’s some combination of the human tendency to lump this in with the (real and perceived) overreach on other things, the real overreach of some (I’m sure small number of) people who freak out about people not wearing masks outside and away from people, the genuine discomfort of masks, and (very importantly) the very bad public health messaging specifically against masks at the start of this, along with a lot of other mixed and changing messages (a lot of people have absolutely no respect for these messages now and figure no one knows what they’re doing).

          This is not intended as a defense, but I do understand it.

          1. “the very bad public health messaging specifically against masks at the start of this, along with a lot of other mixed and changing messages (a lot of people have absolutely no respect for these messages now and figure no one knows what they’re doing).”

             I can’t tell you how much this plays in to the resistance from masks I am seeing from my (distant) family members on social media. I realize things change as our understanding of the virus evolves and of course we did not have all the information/answers in the beginning. But the move from “you don’t need masks, health care providers need masks more than you, donate your masks if you have them” to “everyone needs to wear a mask when they leave the house” has really created a lot of confusion, and thus resistance, to mask-wearing, among people who were already suspicious of “the government” and also have tremendous issue with the idea that we now have people we didn’t elect (i.e., public health officials) making decisions about every facet of American life. The factors Anon at 10:24 mentions play into it as well. But among my “but whut about muh freedoms” cousins posting on Facebook – they view the mask guidance switcharoo as evidence that the pandemic experts have no idea what they’re doing. They don’t trust anything those people have to say, and as one of my relatives said, they did not consent to be governed by people who have never stood for election in their lives and are not accountable back to a constituency. We could sit here and pick apart the logic behind those beliefs but it is what it is.

             My fervent hope is that we learn some important things from this pandemic that will help us in the next one. One key takeaway is that we cannot expect that people will stay in lockdown/quarantine indefinitely with no information about how long it will last or what they will be required to give up. Another is that we cannot assume people are more afraid of getting sick than they are of other negative outcomes – even if a negative outcome is cabin fever or boredom. The pictures of people vacationing in Lake of the Ozarks this weekend say everything that needs to be said about our expectations that people will comply with rules because they’re motivated by a sense of self-preservation. As in, it’s not happening and it’s not going to happen. For many many people, the virus is not serious enough for them to take seriously.

             1. Agree. I’m liberal, and I’m a rule follower by nature. I’m wearing a mask when I go to public indoor spaces, and I do my best to use it properly. I have deep skepticism that the masks, especially cloth masks, help or are anything but performative.

                I also agree 100% that people are less afraid of getting sick than they are of other negative outcomes. My boss is worried his business is going to fold. I am worried about losing my job if I don’t go into work, especially since DH is unemployed. I’m also worried about the effects of social isolation on my kid. My parents are more worried about missing time with their grandson. In each case I’m familiar with, there’s history, “special” circumstances, etc. that inform our feelings about getting sick, and our worries about other factors, but that’s probably true for every human. It’s not just a matter of taking it seriously, but balancing several worries that we, as humans, take seriously.

             2. there are a bunch of studies that show cloth masks to be less effective than properly fitted N95 masks, but a significant improvement over no face covering. That is assuming they actually cover nose and mouth.

       2. Yes, this. It’s not about the masks. People are just digging in at this point.

       3. This is true too. The tolerance for the measures is down. It’s not great and the government could have framed the goalposts better.

          1. I just want to agree with Anon at 12:27. Have serious doubts about the effectiveness of cloth masks worn improperly. I wear a mask, but I wear a medical grade one above my nose. I despise the entire thing, because so many people are wearing cloth masks below their noses. My resistance to masks is based on the fact that a good percentage of people don’t wear them correctly and therefore, I think they are much less effective than we all hope. That said, I still wear mine, despite despising the whole thing.

       4. Please don’t say the lockdown was temporary it’s ongoing without an end in sight for a lot of America.

          1. Every state has come up with some kind of plan to re-open. Some of them are “light switch flipping” and others are more carefully thought out, with specific benchmarks that need to be hit before going to the next phase. But everyone’s goal is ultimately to re-open. Honest, Democrats own businesses and want to go to concerts and football games too. Why would you think otherwise?

    8. I’m pro mask, seat belts, and helmets; but as a reminder the latter two are not legally required in some states! Offhand, NH definitely does not require adults to wear seat belts or helmets for motorcyclists. I think for bicyclists many states have no laws for adults. So if you’re comparing to those… don’t consider them settled – a lot of people do consider them civil liberty issues too!

    9. I’m confused as to why you’re confused, respectfully. Part of the ongoing debate about civil liberties IS that government restrictions and requirements are public safety measures or otherwise enacted for the public good. You don’t have to be a constitutional lawyer to know that courts, laws and governments struggle to balance personal freedoms vs. public safety. You can be 100% on board with masks as effective and still recognize that you had the right to show your face in every public place in America four months ago. And that you can be fined or prosecuted for not wearing a mask. It might be an easy happy trade off for some (most) of us, but don’t pretend you haven’t lost a civil liberty. Also, please keep in mind that what we thought was a temporary situation to “flatten the curve” may continue indefinitely.

       1. I’m not trying to be snarky, but where are you that this is continuing indefinitely? I thought pretty much every part of the US was opening at least partially by the end of June.

          1. “Partial opening” yes, but mask requirements, social distance requirements, and things that many people miss the most and would seriously want to do before going anywhere else in person – like a hair salon – aren’t allowed to be open in “yellow” for PA anyway.

             1. Right, I guess I just don’t agree that we were promised that masks and social distancing requirements wouldn’t be around long term. We were promised that the lockdown was temporary – and it was. I don’t feel in any way duped by continued social distancing requirements or being told to wear masks. Pretty much everyone was upfront that life won’t return to pre-Covid normal until we have a vaccine or very effective treatment and that was likely to take 18 months at minimum.

             2. Anon, respectfully, for the first 3-4 weeks of lockdown (for me that started March 16 or so), the ONLY messaging I was seeing (whether social media, local news, or otherwise) was to “flatten the curve” i.e., spread out the infections such that healthcare would not be overwhelmed in the short term. The defined goal posts were never “keep it that way until there is a vaccine.”

             3. I totally agree that the message for lockdown was to “flatten the curve” and that it would be temporary. And perhaps it has dragged on longer than people expected or officials led us to believe. But we’re not locked down any more! Most of the US has lifted restrictions, and the few areas that are still tightly locked down are opening soon. I fully agree we cannot/should not stay locked down until we have a vaccine, but we’re not. To me, there is a huge difference between “we’re staying locked down until we have a vaccine” and “masks are required in public places until we have a vaccine.” The former is unreasonable and unsustainable and is in direct contradiction of what we were promised. The latter is not, and is what I though we were discussing.

             4. But “reopening” isn’t “you can do what you used to, but make it masked.”

             5. Yes, and the fact that hair salons aren’t open is terrible for the small businesspeople who have poured their lives and savings into those businesses. It’s not terrible for the clients, who can live without a hair cut for a few more weeks. I have an easy time feeling sorry for the first group, and a hard time feeling sorry for the second.

          2. I’m on Long Island. Our “phase one” is limited to manufacturing (of which we have very little) and construction. It’ll be weeks before they even consider another step. “Distance learning” is somehow an acceptable substitute for public school perhaps forever. (Cuomo has hinted at this.) Beaches are only open to people in the suburbs. City people without cars are forced to spend the summer indoors, which is where they’re likely to get the virus.

             I’m a democrat, and I believe in science and I think covid is real and scary. But the fact is, a lot of government measures to date have not been science based (ie requring masks even outdoors while six feet from another person) and the sacrifices we’re making aren’t small and seem to disproportionately affect poor folks and kids.

             I am terrified at the concept that breathing fresh air is a criminal act and I don’t think that concept ends when the pandemic does.

             1. I agree with all of this.

             2. Again, I think we need to be careful between “18-24 months” and “forever”. Yes, the things that we won’t be able to do until we have a vaccine, very good treatment, or sufficient herd immunity due to many people having already had the virus feel almost long enough from now to be forever. But they are not, in fact, the same thing. No one is saying we would like to do all distance education for public school forever.

                I’m not trying to be snarky, just saying that this is all hard enough. Talking about things that we will have to deal with long term is bad enough. Remembering that there is an “after” is really important.

             3. I’m not the poster you’re responding to, but I think there’s a very real concern that if we alter our lives fundamentally for a full 2 years, it will be enough of a societal shift that we won’t ever go back to normal. I know less about K-12 public schools but I work in higher ed, and a lot of people in our industry believe that if we can’t have on-campus instruction until 2022, it will be the end of higher education as we know it. I also think the damage to a lot of people will be irreparable – two years is SO different than two months. To continue with the education example, there is already a well-documented “summer slide” that results in a big gap every fall, since the privileged kids have nannies or attend enriching summer programs, while the less privileged kids are largely bored at home playing video games (or worse). That’s just in the course of 2-3 months, when they weren’t even supposed to be in school. For those less privileged kids, losing even one full year of school will be the summer slide times a billion. This is certainly very nuanced and I don’t profess to have all the answers, but there is a lot more that needs to be considered here than just deaths from the virus. I find the “anybody can do anything for 18-24 months” attitude extremely flippant – sure, those of us with cushy office jobs and spacious houses can WFH and refrain from pleasure travel for a year or two. But there are a lot of people who are going to lose their livelihoods, their education or even their physical safety, and those people’s needs need to be considered too.

             4. To add to the points on education–many children with disabilities or exceptionalities receive intervention and therapy services at school, provided through the school system. There are many, many studies supporting the importance of early intervention. Two years is an extremely long time to go without these supports, and without practicing behavioral modifications.

                My son has special needs. He needs to practice his social and emotional skills in a group setting, with a behavioral assistant. We’re continuing as many therapies as we can, but without an actual group setting and a classroom setting, it’s not that helpful. If he misses a group setting for kindergarten, I doubt he’ll be able to meet expectations for a first grade classroom, even with a behavioral assistant. If he misses kindergarten and first grade, I’m not sure it will be possible to safely send him to second grade.

             5. I’m still hoping the long term changes can be positive. There are things that needed to change.

             6. I don’t see how kids not having access to friends or school and parents not having access to affordable childcare could in any way be construed as positive changes – those things are all objectively terrible.

             7. Existing schools are an absolutely terrible environment for many children, as I am sure you must know.

             8. Anon at 3:21 – can you please elaborate? What about distance learning is better for students? Schools had problems but I don’t think any of those problems have been made better by the current situation.

             9. “Existing schools are an absolutely terrible environment for many children, as I am sure you must know.”

                Woooowwww. It is a HUGE leap that because some children think existing schools are terrible that schools should just stay closed forever? Is that what you’re advocating? I am hearing from WAY more people that their kids miss school and wish they could go back. Do you have kids yourself?

             10. I was thinking primarily of violence in the K12 system (shootings, assaults, and suicide precipitated by bullying and by situational depression worsened in the school environment as compared to home). I was also thinking of some specific conversations I’ve had with parents whose children are doing much better away from school, and I was hoping that those experiences might lead to positive changes, since parents are often told there’s something the matter with their kid when it’s not that simple. I realize that schools in nice neighborhoods are often nice, but school is not an automatic upgrade over home, and it’s definitely not true that every kid in a bad school district is coming from a home that’s somehow worse. As for higher ed, many disability rights activists are hoping that degree programs may start to accommodate disabled students more fully going forward.

             11. Thanks for explaining, I agree that some isolated issues may be lessened by this (shootings) but may be counterbalanced by worse issues at home (increased domestic violence at home) and bullying while definitely a problem doesn’t go away from distance learning (a lot of bullying these days is online or virtual even when school is in session). I absolutely hope that the parents you mention can use this as evidence that the school was the issue and not their kid (and great to hear the kids are doing better) but I don’t think those changes should involve making all school online.

       2. Oh, please. Wearing a seatbelt is an “infringement on mah freedom” too. So is having to stop at a red light or stay within a speed limit.

    10. For one, Trump botched the pandemic response and his supporters want the pandemic to be over so that voters forget this. Seeing people in masks is a constant reminder of the pandemic. They want you not in a mask so they can pretend it doesn’t exist.

        There is also a crowd that thinks everything is made up and the masks are a mind control device. Probably under the same reasoning that if you see the masks, you remember the pandemic and feel unsafe.

        Then there are the people that won’t wear them because they wear them in Asian countries and this is America.

        To be clear, I agree with NONE of those groups and religiously wear my mask but these are the things I hear . . . and why I get some nasty looks from people for wearing one.

        1. Enough already. Find a new hobby.

           1. Huh?

        2. Agreed and I think there’s also an element of denial. It’s much easier, psychologically, to feel like you’re invincible because you’re young, most cases are mild, etc etc, so your risk is low and nothing bad will actually happen to *you personally*, because then you don’t have to be scared. Wearing a mask although you believe all of the former creates cognitive dissonance which is uncomfortable for people.

           1. This disease is literally 100 times as deadly for people in nursing homes as it is for the young. Something like half the deaths are nursing home deaths.

              1. Many of us are worried about disability and long term complications. Illness can really derail a young person’s life and career.

              2. Yeah, so? I don’t find the lives of elders in nursing homes less valuable than my own. Yes, on one hand it’s less tragic when a 95 yo dies versus a 25 yo, but still … neither is a good thing, and we all realize that the 95 yo is being taken care of by young people who are at risk when this sweeps nursing homes as it has.

    11. Because losers gotta be losers. I’m required to wear a shirt and shoes when I walk into a restaurant – I don’t see a darn bit of difference between that and being required to wear a mask when I walk into Costco (or wherever). Fascinating how the same crowd that thinks that the baker should be allowed to set his own policy and not bake wedding cakes for gay couples, doesn’t think that Costco (etc) should be allowed to set *their own policy and require masks for entrants.

        1. Yea, the hypocrisy drives me batty. The my body my choice signs, then the protesters who ARE wearing masks, the example you mentioned, etc.

           1. Seeing those “my body, my choice” signs from the anti-mask crowd makes be stabby. If I ever saw one in person I might be tempted to break social distancing rules.

        2. In my neck of the woods, there is a “no-mask” protestor that has been filming themselves getting thrown out of grocery store because they can’t disrupt town meetings in person right now (which has been going on for years and years). Most people are wearing masks, everyone seems to be doing the best they can, and most people are complying with the rules.

           I do worry about people’s tolerance for the total lack of social gatherings, etc., and think people are starting to quietly break the rules more and more often. It’s all hard, but this is important.

        3. Do you honestly feel no discomfort in a mask whatsoever or are you just saying it’s a relatively small price to pay because it helps stop the spread? How many years are you comfortable wearing one in all public places? The beach? The park? Does it matter if they find out cloth ones don’t work?

           1. I’m old enough to remember when seat belts became mandatory. It was a slight adjustment but NBD. I think the same way about masks.

              1. I mean wearing a seatbelt may have been NBD to you but it was certainly not something the entire population thought was NBD. My parents literally owned a car for YEARS during the time after seatbelts were mandatory that had the seatbelts cut out by the former owner. They got rid of the car when my mom got pregnant. My dad refused/forgot/whatever to wear a seatbelt for many many years after that. It was only when my mom figured out she could guilt him into wearing one by calling a seatbelt a “love belt” to get me and my sister to wear them and we would say “Daddy, don’t forget your love belt” whenever we would get into the car that he finally started wearing one. And that was something to protect HIS life and it took years and years and two kids who depended on him for financial support to finally start wearing one. People are strange and hate change. You can think it’s irrational but it doesn’t change the facts.

              2. Yes, people are strange. That’s a really outsized reaction to having to wear a seat belt. I swear, if stoplights and speed limits and driving on the right side of the road were just being rolled out now, it sounds like some people would consider those things limits on their freedom. Whatever.

              3. I mean the fact that people get tickets all the time for running stop signs and speeding proves that many people still don’t follow the rules/find them cumbersome/encroachment on their freedom (unless you’re a saint among us, I’m sure at some point in your life you’ve done both of those things). You can shout until you’re blue in the fact saying that x, y or z is not a big deal but when has that approach ever been successful in changing anyone’s mind? I was using the example of seatbelts to show how someone’s mind was successfully changed and it wasn’t by telling him he was over-reacting (but I’m sure that would have gone over really well and thanks for insulting my parents, who, by the way were not unique in this, a lot of my friends had similar experiences with their own parents). Your experience/reaction to something is not universal.

15. Can I share some positive news? Despite everything going wrong, my parents officially took ownership of a cottage in Portugal. The EU is still closed to US citizens so they won’t be visiting it anytime soon but as of next summer, they’ll be a 3 hour flight away, a bit change from UK to California. I’m so thrilled that we’ll be able to see them much more regularly and that my son will get to spend summers roaming around the countryside.

    1. Wonderful news!!

    2. That’s so wonderful, I’m so happy for all of you!!

    3. That is fab. Portugal is such a great destination…

    4. This is amazing – so exciting for you and your parents! Portugal is one of my favorite places, and I do daydream about living there pretty much all the time! (In fact, I wish it was possible for me to ride out this WFH thing there, but for obvious reasons I can’t and it makes me so sad!)

    5. Congratulations!!

16. Ugh — any good books for teaching a grownup how to cook food that tastes good? I have been survival cooking since March, quick things that my kids will eat. I can cook delicious grownup food but that seems to require a dedicated shopping trip and a lot of cooking/prep time and is not realistic. Good hack: cook things in a bit of butter. It will always make them taste better. Paula Deen is not wrong about this. But I am sick of everything I can do quickly and have a family to feed. [Cannot outsource to spouse — his family of origin cooks whole chicken breasts by boiling them in water for what seems like forever and this to me is an culinary outrage and not edible.]

    Watching videos isn’t something I have time for. I’m looking for a book or a website that explains . . . the alchemy of flavors and textures and tastes. I’m a fast reader but don’t have time to watch lots of shows. Plus, I’d need things written down for store trips now that I’m trying not to go every time I cook.

    1. this is literally what salt fat acid heat is for. she explains why those four elements are the key to good-tasting food. for example, salting your vegetables before cooking draws the water out and leaves you with more intense flavors- rather than adding salt at the end which just makes them taste like salty vegetables. you can skip around the book, or you can read it like a novel. there are recipes included but almost everything is ‘to taste’ so that if my preference for acid is different than yours, or your husbands, each of us can find a version of the recipe that we like.

       1. OP here — I never knew that re salting vegetables.

          I know that bone-in meat cuts will taste better than boneless ones, but I just don’t have time every day to roast a chicken (previously — now that I am home, I can do more roasting of things as long as I have stuff handy and plan ahead a bit). Soon, though, it will be too hot to be running the oven or it will roast us as well :(

          What else should I know??? And how do people come to learn this? Watching their nona? I feel that I should know this stuff but need to do an almost academic dive into things to really understand why things need to be this way and not that way.

          1. You’re dramatically over complicating things. Get one cookbook. Pick a recipe that looks tasty. Follow that recipe. Repeat. Or subscribe to NYTimes cooking- you can filter by “easy”. You don’t need to do a massive deep dive into this! Just start with something and think about whether it tasted good.

             1. the kitchn blog usually provides this kind of background info with their recipes. But yeah, I don’t think there is really a way but to incorporate some new recipes, one at a time. Or to invest more time, browse cookbooks, videos and blogs at your leisure to learn more stuff.
                I wonder if it would be more helpful if you ask for more specific advice, like – my family eats X three times a week and I am tired of it. What’s an easy, kid friendly way to incorporate more YZ into our meals?

          2. Look up recipes for spatchcock chicken. It reduces the cooking time to about 45 minutes.

             DH and I graduated from college knowing almost nothing about how to cook. We used cookbooks and websites and watched cooking shows. It does help to know why things need to be a certain way, but it’s also not bad to just find a few go-to cookbooks that you like. DH is better at improvising and using up ingredients we have sitting around, and I’m more of a planner and a recipe person (or make it the way I already know person). After a long day, he wants a creative outlet, and I just want someone else or a recipe to tell me what to do.

          3. Yep Samin Nosrat dives into all of these kinds of questions in SFAH- give it a read before you continue panicking!
             The TV show is more narrative about her experiences in flavor- it’s lovely but the book is what you really need here to do the “why” of your flavors. One of my favorite things in the book is how she profiles different vegetable/herb/spice groups by country of flavor origin- for example, mirepoix vs soffrito vs the holy trinity- all similar components but the way they’re assembled evoques a different part of the world!
             After Samin if you’d still like to keep going, my next step would be a subscription to America’s Test Kitchen- they do all of the WHY and HOW on a deeper level, but it can be overwhelming at first. Samin might be more approachable if you’re just getting started. Good luck!

          4. Also, both my grandmothers were the world’s worst cooks. One believes that salt and pepper are “exotic” and the other had seven kids and believed the microwave was invented for a reason – she didnt have time to cook. My mom didnt have any formal cooking education but she gave me the confidence to throw anything in a pan and see how it tastes. I learned everything else I know from reading, watching, tasting, and trying myself. When you eat takeout food this spring (or if you go to a restaurant), think about the flavors they’ve put together. Garlic can go with ginger and soy sauce and hot pepper in chinese food, but it can also go with tomato and parmesan and basil in italian food- if you can recognize these patterns, you’ll have an easier time riffing on old recipes or coming up with something from the depths of the fridge.

             Reframe your narrative- you are not the only person on earth who didn’t learn this stuff, and you’re so lucky to get to go on a flavor adventure as an adult, when you can think critically and enjoy the process! Had you learned all this as a child, you’d miss all the fun! And- this is a totally cool stay-at-home project – in thirty years when you look back at 2020 summer, our closets will all have to be cleaned out again but you’ll think of the time you embarked on a permanent and delicious cooking journey!

          5. Echoing Nosrat’s book (not so much the show for learning). In addition, watch shows on the Cooking Channel (Food Network has largely jumped to entertainment, not teaching). Then maybe pick up Mark Bittman’s How to Cook Everything. Pick an ingredient you have, or want to eat, and read the section about that ingredient (it is organized by ingredient, including proteins and vegetables, so super handy that way). Make one of the recipes. Consider Nosrat’s advice when you do it and tweak it if you think it’s not as you’d like it. Try a variation on the recipe (Bittman will give you variations) the next time you make that ingredient. Rinse. Repeat.

          6. sustainablecooks does a good job of quick easy recipes.

             there are other services that provide a grocery list, you cook everything one day and then you can eat from the freezer for a month.

             shutterbean also cooks once a week for yummy food all week long

             I came to it through trial/error/logic and because I enjoy prepping food and cooking it.

             good luck!!

       2. Yes, it is so so good! I feel like it has improved my cooking already.

       3. +1 Salt Fat Acid Heat. I learned so much from it, and the Netflix show is worth a watch too if you have time someday.

          Cooking hacks: garlic! onions! ginger! to add flavor while cooking food. Use store-bought herb/spice mixes to food. Make pickled vegetables and serve as sides, can make a lot at once and eat over several weeks.

    2. Salt Fat Acid Heat.
       Alton Brown’s I’m Just Here for the Food.
       Deborah Madison’s How to Cook Everything Vegetarian –specifically, the chapter on vegetables, which tells you how to select, prep, and cook each vegetable, then gives you some recipes and recommended (but optional) sauces or dressings.

       1. Kenji Lopez-Alt is at the forefront of the modern “cooking as science” school. He’s a major contributor to Serious Eats, which is a good source if you want to learn how to make a particular recipe really well (and omg, his chocolate chip cookies). His book, The Food Lab, is a how-to-cook instructional but may be better for someone wanting to devote a lot of time to the project.

          1. +1000 to Kenji – all of his recipes I’ve made have been such winners. If you feel like reading his thought process, he has “food lab” articles that test out different techniques, but I usually just skip it and trust his recipe.

    3. I recommend the Flavor Bible if you are staring at random ingredients and wondering how they will work together. I’ve made up some great recipes this way!

    4. Rukmini Iyer’s Roasting Tin books! Start with the first one and then explore the others if you like it. It has great flowcharts for putting together ingredients in a way that will taste good.

    5. Mark Bittman has some great ‘how to cook everything’ cookbooks. For recipes I KNOW will not fail, America’s Test Kitchen and Smitten Kitchen are my go-to websites/books. America’s test kitchen tests everything to death, and while I find they flavor way less intensely than I’d like it’s easily compensated for (1 clove of garlic = 4 cloves of garlic, ha). Smitten Kitchen also has options to sort by weeknight dinners, and she has 2 small kids, so a lot of meals have kid-friendly flavors or aspects (spice added via diced peppers, served in bowls so people can add their own toppings, etc).
       My mom was a mediocre cook, and her mom was a terrible cook. I learned through a LOT of trial and error in my teens/20s. Nadiya Hussain has one of the most accesible/informative tv cooking shows out there at the moment IMHO, I’d watch her new Netflix series one night.

       1. oh my gosh, I always up the garlic, carrots, celery, whatever in Test Kitchen recipes. 1 rib of celery for a chicken pot pie that serves 6? Come on.

       2. Am I the only one who doesn’t like Smitten Kitchen? The best description I can come up with for her recipes is bland and overly virtuous. Take, for example, the famous pizza beans. Just beans and greens with tomato sauce and cheese? Little flavor, no textural contrast. A chore to eat.

          1. “A chore to eat” is so apt for most of spouse’s family recipies. So many have the consistency of . . . mucus? Mucus and salt? Vile, vile, vile stuff.

          2. I kind of hate beans, so I’ve skipped those. I think a big thing is finding a cookbook/blogger/cook who’s style and flavor palette (for lack of a better term) align with yours. Deb is Jewish and lives in NY, and is pretty obviously influenced by the wide availability of spices/types of takeout/restaurants that the city offers and also reinterprets a lot of ‘classic’ NY food. That’s my heritage and frame of reference for cooking (I don’t have a Thai takeout place now, but miss that taste profile, and appreciate the Thai-influenced steak salad, and sesame noodles because I can do those at home). I also know I can trust her for good but updated versions of brisket/challah/etc. that I make for big family gatherings.
             If that’s not your taste I get it! Rachel Ray isn’t my jam but my Midwestern family loves her! Food is very personal.

             1. My point is actually that Deb’s recipes are pretty flavorless. I don’t see them as taking much inspiration from the variety of flavors and ingredients available in NYC. I also think she must have some idiosyncratic texture preferences because everything is just so mushy.

          3. I love her bolognese lasagna, and her guinness chocolate cake. Everything else I’ve made has been fun to make, but you’re absolutely right- a chore to eat. She’s great at writing the recipes well, but her food frequently is too mushy, too salty, and not balanced.

             1. I don’t cook a lot of her stuff, but her Key Lime Pie (which doesn’t use key limes) is great. I will fight you on this.

             2. Her dessert recipes are fantastic but I’m not a fan of her other non-dessert stuff. glad that I’m not the only one.

          4. I think she has some good basic “regular” recipes but I haven’t loved everything of hers I’ve made. I think anyone who enjoys olive oil cake that much has a pretty bland palate.

          5. holy crap what are you making from her blog? ‘

             I love the blog, itt’s awesome. I literally cooked deb’s recipes for the first 3 weeks of quarantine!
             I’m obsessed with the falafels. Also go back to her broccoli rabe pasta bake ALL the time.

             if your food is coming out mushy and salty, i question the method. Recipes are general guides and not an exact formula.

             admittedly, i skip anything i don’t feel like making (pizza beans).

       3. I did not understand the concept of a “clove” of garlic. It is one of those thingies in the bulb-like thing that looks like a toenail! It is not the whole entire bulb-like thing.

          In my high school, girls who did well in math didn’t get home ec (for boys: no shop class). In retrospect, I should have taken home ec in summer school. Life skills are important skills!

       4. I seem to be the outlier who never likes Mark Bittman recipes. I even tried one again last weeknd, and still :p.

          I think certain categories of things just take time. DH almost never cooks with veggies because he resents the prep time. Meats need to be started significantly before mealtime, but not necessarily tended carefully. But what I would consider an “easy” recipe is one where I just mix things together- salads, soups, many casseroles. And the obvious shortcut, if you can affird it, is to buy things pre-prepped: from rotisserie chickens and pre-chopped veggies on the tastier end of the spectrum to jarred sauces and frozen meals on the “meh” end of the spectrum.

       5. LOVE Nadiya’s show! I cracked up when she vehemently said she’ll never make her own puff pastry again.

    6. Without even looking at the replies first, Salt Fat Acid Heat. And then I see I’m not alone. Really, don’t dig in your heels because it sounds too basic. It’s very well written and will inspire you.

       Another book that is less popular is Twelve Recipes by another Chez Panisse alum. He basically teaches twelve techniques, and then everything is a variation of one of those. It doesn’t sound like a lot but you could easily eat, and eat really well, for a year with his approach.

       1. Also if you eat meat, Molly Steven’s Roasting book is great. She’s a big proponent of pre-salting and it has made my cooking so much better, just knowing when and how much to pre-salt poultry and meat.

    7. One thing we did that really helped our cooking fatigue was to sit down as a family and list every meal we’d ever eaten that we would want to eat again. I wrote everything down and we posted the list in the kitchen. Now, every day instead of going back over the same 5 things we’ve been making for dinner, we look at the list and pick something we haven’t done recently. Our problem wasn’t that we lacked cooking skills to make anything (my contention is that if you aren’t a Michelin star chef there are only so many cooking skills you really need); it was that we had run out of ideas on what to make. Several online magazines have features right now about “what to make when you have cooking burnout,” I bookmarked one from Taste of Home that we’re going to go back to when we run out of things from the list.

    8. I’ll probably get mocked for this, but I have liked a number of Rachael Ray’s recipes. They are pretty straightforward and don’t use a lot of special ingredients.

       The Washington Post Food section has a recipe finder where you can enter ingredients and get recipes. I feel like Allrecipes.com might have something like this, too.

       Honestly, I prefer cooking and recipe websites that are kind of middlebrow, for lack of a better word. Even in normal times, I have no interest in traveling to four different groceries to find all the special ingredients some recipes want.

       1. Cosign completely. When I first taught myself to cook I did the “let’s make this recipe that requires I buy 6 different exotic ingredients I will use one teaspoon of and then never use again” thing. Some of them were good; most were just okay. It was when I realized that every meal does not need to be a culinary triumph of epic proportions that it was easier for me to relax and enjoy cooking. Sometimes I put extra effort into something complicated or time-consuming and knock it out of the park. But for everyday, get-dinner-on-the-table meal preparation it’s fine to go for the middlebrow, average, pedestrian, everyone-will-think-this-is-mostly-okay-and-eat-it type of recipe. My go-tos are Taste of Home, Cooking Light, and America’s Test Kitchen. Nothing that comes from those sources is revolutionary but the recipes I pick are healthy, palatable and allow me to get dinner on the table in 45 minutes or less (and I prefer 30). People get fed. There are vegetables that go into people’s bodies. That’s all I care about most days.

          1. Agreed! You should target average not impressive in social media. Every fancy recipe that I make ends up not being with it, probably due to the same phenomenon that causes NYE never to live up to expectations. I live Cooking Light and Eating Well. Also, some bloggers I follow have been posting recipes which have turned out to be good.

       2. Same. I find it’s easy to eat flavorful food without a bunch of exotic ingredients. I really like the blogs Budget Bytes and Once Upon a Chef.

    9. We like Six O’Clock Scramble books and recipe planning site – it does cost money but I thought it was worth it.
       Stuff my kids eat (and they’re pretty picky) and ok enough to feed grown-ups and yes even “company” Indian-spiced salmon was a hit

17. The orthodontist has referred my daughter for the extraction of an impacted tooth. The oral surgeon refuses even to do a consultation on the basis of the X-rays the orthodontist just took and insists on doing his own CT scan. This seems dangerous for a number of reasons, including excessive radiation exposure in a young teen and increased risk of COVID-19 exposure. I am pretty sure a blanket requirement for a CT scan is just a money-making scheme. Has anyone else encountered this? Any suggested scripts for pushing back or screening other prospective oral surgeons for reasonableness, without coming off as a crazy mom?

    1. I wouldn’t worry about COVID – I don’t see how the CT scan specifically increases risk for that and unless your child is high risk, I would not postpone necessary dental work because of COVID. That said, I’m always skeptical of dental people pushing things that aren’t needed so it doesn’t hurt to call another oral surgeon and see what they say.

    2. That sounds bizarre to me and the radiation blast from the CT scan is not inconsequential. I’ve had to get two and the doctors were very cautious and took it seriously/considered alternatives first. I’d get a new oral surgeon.

       1. Yes, I’ve had two head CTs in my life and they told me after the last one, unless I have very serious symptoms and the ONLY solution is CT I am done with head CTs, they won’t give me another one. I had one in college and one about three years ago. OP, as PI suggests I would call a different oral surgeon. My husband had his wisdom teeth out a few years ago (at age 45 – people, do not wait on your wisdom teeth extraction is all I can say) and they did some kind of 3-d x-ray to determine what was going on with his teeth; he didn’t need a CT scan. My view on referrals from providers is, thanks for the info and I hope I like this person as much as you do. If I don’t we’ll be going to someone else. They’re more suggestions than mandates.

    3. You’re being ridiculous. He can’t reasonably consult on a major surgery based on an x-ray. The CT scan is necessary. The radiation risk is minute and not a reason to decline necessary medical care.

       1. Guess I’m wrong!

       2. What makes you so sure? This is not at all what I’ve been told about the risk of CT scans of the head.

       3. Agree. They had to do a CT scan at the oral surgeon’s office when I had my wisdom teeth out. I would much rather take the risk of radiation vs the risk that they are trying to extract a tooth whose roots are tangled up with a major nerve (which happened in my case and they only saw bc of the panorama CT scan). I’d rather not have a >50% chance of permanent facial nerve damage if there is literally anything else they can do.

       4. The radiation risk is cumulative. One CT scan alone isn’t going to be the cause of cancer, but over a lifetime it adds up- especially CT scans. One head CT scan has 200 times the radiation of a panoramic dental x-ray. https://www.health.harvard.edu/cancer/radiation-risk-from-medical-imaging

          I’d get another opinion. And I think “I’m willing to have my daughter get a CT scan if necessary, but I wanted to see if other oral surgeons felt that a CT scan was a requirement” isn’t crazy mom, just conscious of cumulative health risks.

    4. I don’t know about the impaction, but my oral surgeon was willing to do a consultation (for wisdom teeth extraction; the consult was about a year and a half ago, the surgery was a year ago) based on my dentist’s say-so. He did his own X-rays during that. Wanting a CT scan to do a consultation seems odd.

    5. Not a dentist/doctor, but this seems odd. Is the consult about whether the tooth needs to be removed? I was referred by my dentist to an oral surgeon to get my wisdom teeth removed. Two of my wisdom teeth are impacted and visible on an x-ray. I had the other two removed. The oral surgeon said the two impacted teeth would require very invasive surgery to remove– one is in my sinus cavity. His thought was that if my pain was relieved by removing the non-impacted ones, he wouldn’t remove the impacted one unless it was causing me pain at some later date. It hasn’t.

       1. There is no question that the tooth needs to be removed. A consultation is standard before oral surgery and is mostly about the method of sedation. I called another oral surgeon’s office, which said they always start by looking at the existing X-rays, would never order a CT unless a nerve might be involved, and would do the entire consult via teledentistry unless additional imaging ended up being required. They also told me that insurance probably wouldn’t cover a CT. So my instincts were apparently correct.

          1. Glad you managed to reach out to another dental surgeon. You are right that professional doctors first use existing materials and supplement with eg panoramic x-ray (harmless). CT scan for tooth extraction is something done less often a d only after the x-ray pointed to complications. The first surgeon seems to be in the business to cash in.

    6. I can’t speak to the risks of another CT scan, but I think you have to trust that oral surgeons / those in the dental industry are at FAR more risk than their customers are, and are going to have the right sanitation procedures in place. Remember, you’re just one patient – they are breathing people’s germs all the livelong day. It’s in their best interest for everyone to be well-protected. I have postponed all of my personal medical appointments because they are nothing other than routine check-ups (paps, mammograms, routine dental cleanings and eye screenings) but I honestly would not hesitate to get needed care done just because of Covid. It’s not as though medical professionals aren’t fully aware of Covid’s existence or that their relevant associations aren’t passing on the appropriate protocols to minimize risk.

       1. We are going to have the surgery done, but I don’t think an unnecessary CT scan is worth the additional risk. The radiation alone is a non-starter, and when you add in the additional COVID exposure it seems nuts. Also, the surgeon and staff can all wear masks. The patient obviously can’t.

          1. IDK I think some commenters here, including me, are wondering why you keep insisting a CT scan is too risky because of radiation. I have Crohn’s disease, and I wouldn’t know I had it without an abdominal CT. I have had at least 3 full CT scans of my digestive tract. Two years ago, I broke my big toe. I had a CT scan of my foot and an MRI. Not to mention, xray also exposes you to radiation. So I’m just… not sure why you’re fixated on the CT.

             1. Necessary CT scans are different. But this seems like it was an unnecessary CT can, and she’s right to be concerned. Radiation risk is cumulative, and it’s reasonable to want a second opinion when someone is saying that a CT scan is the only option. Even with an infection in my chest that was only visible using a CT scan, my doctors were very cautious to minimize the number of CT scans I had to get because of the cumulative risk.

             2. X ray exposes you to a lot less radiation, I think about 1/100th as much as a CT (a doctor told me this once when i was fretting over the fact that my young child had already had several x-rays).

             3. To clarify, the doctor’s point was that I shouldn’t worry because you could have dozens of x-rays without approaching the radiation of a CT scan, and even CT scans are safe. That said, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be significantly more concerned about the radiation from a CT scan vs x-ray, since it’s orders of magnitude more. The doctors I’ve encountered are cautious about CT scans and don’t do them when it’s not necessary, and it sounds like it wasn’t really necessary here. What’s the downside to getting as second opinion? if the second oral surgeon had said “yep, you need a CT scan” then she could have just had the scan. I guess I just feel like you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by asking for a second opinion.

18. Now that my spouse and I are both working from home, I can overhear her work meetings and there is not a configuration of our tiny living space that will avoid this. It’s becoming clear to me that she has shown questionable judgment on a few different issues recently, and yesterday was reprimanded by two different levels of management for one situation. I have noticed that she has a “savior” complex – whenever a coworker expresses distress (“I’m so overwhelmed” “this process isn’t going like I though it would!” the usual peer-to-peer venting) she feels it is her place to jump in and find solutions and take over part of the problem, even if the file has nothing to do with her assigned responsibilities. She is not a manager. Most recently she participated on a call with a coworker about a regulatory matter on a file that she isn’t implicated in – I asked her beforehand whether the manager was available to support the coworker on the call instead, but otherwise kept silent. On that call to which manager wasn’t invited, she made a comment that inspired investigation by the regulator and a fine. I get that she was just trying to help her coworker, but the bad judgment exists at so many levels – overstepping boundaries where management should really be stepping in instead, speaking out of turn without a complete understanding of a situation, being taken advantage of by peers.

    I know that spouses should try to stay out of one another’s professional lives, but what I’m seeing is alarming me. I am really surprised to see how my spouse behaves in a professional environment…and kind of turned off by it. Would you say something? How do I reframe this as “not my business”?

    1. Noise-cancelling headphones.

    2. Not your business. Do you want a divorce? Literally mind if this is your business. At all.

       And the way you are talking about your spouse is bad. “Savior complex”?!?!? You need to majorly slow your roll. Focus on your own job.

       1. OP here with a sincere follow-up question: Would you honestly not be concerned and maintaining that “it’s not my business” if your spouse was potentially about to get fired over a pattern of behavior that you’ve also noticed play out in your personal life (especially trouble with boundaries)? Because, that’s the situation we’re in. The financial and reputational damage that her overstepping caused is very real with that regulatory situation, and more than one higher up is disciplining her with further meetings scheduled to discuss. I know some of this because she’s told me directly, and her attitude when she talks about it to me is dismissive and blind to the severity of the situation (eg. “I’m not wearing this””I don’t even care”).

          1. Sounds like you have plenty enough problems to deal with that exist within your marriage without diving into her job.

          2. So, putting aside what you overhear out of necessity and focusing on what she’s affirmatively shared with you — have you asked her about whether she’s worried she’ll be let go as a result? Discussed your finances as a couple if her job is lost? Approach it from concern as a partner rather than as her employer.

          3. What exactly could you hope to accomplish, if you did get involved? The misstep you’ve described can’t be undone, and her bosses are already addressing it with her. Your jumping in to critique the way she performed her job won’t keep her from losing it, if that’s the likely outcome of the situation. Her dismissive attitude is very likely a coping mechanism and/or a way to try to save face in front of her spouse, who is suddenly able to see and judge her professional life in addition to her personal life. Now is the time to listen, support, give grace, and butt out.

          4. Is this a Number Three situation?

             1. Things that are the price of admission to the relationship. (You hear it, you cringe, you realize there is nothing you can do so you stay out of it.)
             2. Dealbreakers. (You realize that this work behavior is indicative of bigger problems with her as a person who has boundary issues, and you can’t live with those issues. And/or you can’t live with somebody who is about to be fired for cause/is inappropriate at work/you’ve lost all respect for her now that you know she’s like this.)
             3. This is a serious issue to you and she’s shown no interest in addressing it, but you just know that if you can find the right way to address it and demonstrate the seriousness and its affect on her work and your marriage, she will magically agree and change it.

             Except, of course, there is no Number Three. If she doesn’t think it’s a problem, you’re not going to change it.

             1. #4. People who have demonstrated a willingness in the past to change are able to continue to change.

             2. Right, which is why number three includes “no interest in addressing it.”

             3. You’re missing the point, Senior Attorney, but what else is new?

             4. Senior Attorney, there’s some wisdom there, but none of your options ever include anyone changing at all and that simply isn’t what I’ve witnessed in many relationships, including my own. It’s not all dealbreakers and serious issues and prices of admission. I actively work at changing some of my negative traits to benefit my spouse and he does the same.

             5. Okay then I guess this isn’t going to be helpful to you. Obviously there are shades of gray and this analysis has been helpful to me. YMMV, always and of course.

             6. To PI’s point, I also work to change negative behaviors in generally, but to SA’s point, both PI and I WANT to. If Anon’s spouse has no interest in changing, there isn’t squat anon can do about it really.

       2. No, I totally get it. If my spouse was a heel or inappropriate or a jerk out in public, it’d majorly affect how I looked at them. No idea what to do about it unless she asks you for your thoughts.

       3. Haha this was my thought also. If I wanted a divorce a quick route to that would be for me to critique my husband’s work calls based on what I heard when I was eavesdropping on his conversations.

          OP, when it comes to work you react to what your spouse chooses to share with you, even in these strange times when we have more knowledge about what our partners are doing all day than we would normally. Agree totally with the noise-canceling headphones suggestion, and would also suggest – when you hear something your spouse says and think, huh, I would immediately put it out of your brain and think about something else. Her work is not your business. Move on.

    3. Stay out of it and pretend you didn’t hear it. You wouldn’t have known about any of this had your spouse been in the office. It sounds like her office’s management is aware of the issue and doing what they should – managing her. Commenting on her work performance is a recipe for disaster – the biggest fight I ever saw my parents get into was when my mom read an email from over my dad’s shoulder and started making suggestions. For you, noise canceling headphones is an excellent idea.

    4. Oof. You already know the answer to this – spouses should stay of our one another’s professional lives, butt out unless you are being asked to help. And you are not. And you know this is not your business, it does not need to be reframed. Get some noise cancelling headphones like the first reply commenter.

    5. I know you’re not finding the humor in this, but there’s a twitter thread for you:
       https://twitter.com/inLaurasWords/status/1240687424377720835
       (“A funny thing about quarantining is hearing your partner in full work mode for the first time. Like, I’m married to a “let’s circle back” guy — who knew?”)

       1. ha – very true. We laugh at ourselves and each other about that stuff.

    6. Hijacking a bit, but my spouse and I talk about details of work and solicit advice (and often advise unsolicited) all the time. Is this super weird? He sometimes has me review work emails that he is trying to phrase delicately, and I have occasionally done the same. We both know the names and details of everyone each other works with. The situation described above would be a completely open convo between us.

       1. Same here. Maybe a little different because DH is in a residency program so his coworkers are all his age, and we socialize with them a lot. I have told him that I thought he was unnecessarily harsh when he gets paged in the middle of the night, and he changed his tone slightly. He will tell me if I’m overreacting in a work situation, etc. OP – I think you can ask your spouse how work is going, and if they go into detail, give your input gently. I wouldn’t tell them immediately you think they’re going to get fired.

       2. Ugh, to me this sounds terrible and cringe and I would never want this with a spouse (reviewing work email drafts? RUN AWAY!!!). I want boundaries and think boundaries are key to any healthy relationship, be it a friendship, family or romantic. But if it works for you, then you do you. Doesn’t matter if it’s super weird if it works for you.

       3. Not in that level of detail but definitely as a sounding board type of thing.

       4. My partner and I are like this, but also we’ve been together since high school, so I think that probably makes a difference.

       5. same, and we tell each other whether this is just venting or whether we are looking for advice. I’ve told my spouse (only once or twice) that their boss is right and they are wrong when they’ve complained about a thing. Just like we are honest about issues between us. It helps that we started in the same career and have developed in different directions, but still are in the same field.

    7. Given that this is also a pattern in your personal life, I think it’s something you should address.

       Your goal isn’t to be “right” or to look down on your wife because you have these workplace skills and she does not. Your goal is for your wife to be in a better place emotionally and with interpersonal skills for the sake of your marriage and her career. This is therapy as coaching, not therapy because she’s broken or dysfunctional or immature or what-have-you.

       Assuming that you’re in the marriage for the long haul and not considering leaving over this, the answer is to be a partner with her in getting the coaching she needs. You can’t be that coach, but you can look into options for telehealth, career counseling, or job coaching. You can go with her to her sessions if she wants.

       For quotidian issues, remind her that the corporate structure is in place to solve these problems, and many times, she can ‘solve’ them by referring them to the proper person and going through the correct chain of command.

    8. I wouldn’t bring this up and would get the headphones like others suggested. IF your spouse gets fired or otherwise seriously reprimanded, then I would consider a conversation then.

    9. Not your business, but the same issue in your personal life *is* your business, and if seeing her act the same way to others is what you needed to recognize how bad things really are in your relationship, now you have it.

       You can’t fix your spouse’s workplace behavior. You can address her behavior outside of work, you can ignore her behavior, or you can leave.

19. Is anyone else dealing with anxiety around not being able to date right now? Any advice for dealing with this? I’m unhappily single and eager to start a family with the right person and am feeling the pressure of the biological clock. I’m an introvert so being alone the last couple of months hasn’t been as hard on me as it has been on others, but one thing that has been hard is feeling like this whole situation is further delaying my effort (which feels very unfruitful anyway) to find the right person. I’m doing online dating but without being able to meet it person it’s hard to keep conversations going or really asses a potential match. I guess I’m just hoping to hear that I’m not alone in this or advice for dealing with this kind of anxiety.

    1. Yes, I’m with you. However, I’m trying to use the time to slog through the matches and find someone I can connect with and get to know better. So far…I’ve found like…one person who can actually hold a conversation. I know, it’s hard. Commiseration.

    2. I don’t have any advice but I feel like I could have written this post myself. You aren’t alone.

       1. +1 same here. It really sucks.

    3. Yes exactly. I’m also moderately introverted but having a tough time with this nonetheless. I do have a lot of anxiety about dating because I’m in my early 30s and I know I don’t have forever if I want kids and so I need to get on with it but I’m finding it really difficult. I have been trying to online date but I feel like no one is really into it. I might try a virtual speed dating, mostly because it’ll give me something concrete to do rather than feel anxious without any real outcome.

    4. Yes!! Posted basically the same thing over the weekend…it really really sucks. No advice but I am right there with you!

20. Uh, has anyone else really gotten into Korean dramas during this time? It started so innocently for me in March. “OK fine, Netflix, I will watch this thing called Crash Landing on You that you have been aggressively marketing to me for months…” What a Pandora’s box of obsession that turned out to be! Now I have way too many streaming subscriptions. I am a devoted but picky fan of romance novels, and the some of the romance-focused kdramas especially are really connecting with me like no English-language shows have for a long time. It’s particularly jarring to see honest, respectful, adult relationships on-screen, as sad as that is. I thought of posting here since there are occasional threads about romance novel recommendations, and maybe other readers will enjoy these (or already do) as much as I have lately!

    1. I used to watch a ton years ago! I enjoyed them much more than American light TV. If you haven’t found it already, I used to really enjoy the blog dramabeans.

       1. Yes! Most of their reviewers are really insightful. I had to break the bad habit of reading the detailed recaps and then fast-forwarding ahead though, I think I ruined a couple dramas for myself that way.

    2. I was only a casual watcher until the pandemic. I loved CLOY and just finished Itaewon Class and am going to wrap up Hospital Playlist when the last episode drops. Binging Kdrama is how I am getting through this pandemic. Are there any others you recommend?

       1. Because this is my first life was my other favorite that’s actually on US Netflix. Of the ones I watched elsewhere, Healer, What’s Wrong with Secretary Kim?, and Fight My Way were my favorites. I read Netflix might have more soon, maybe those. The latter two star the same actor as Itaewon Class, he seems to make everything great. Kdramas have been like Friday Night Lights for me in general… my interest in the topic/premise of the show is not terribly correlated with my enjoyment. Don’t care about football, adore FNL. Executive romancing his secretary? Seems unpleasant, but What’s Wrong with Secretary Kim? was so delightful I somehow watched it straight through twice in a row.

    3. Thank you for bringing these to my attention, I did not know they existed and now I have to check them out, based on everyone’s comments!

       1. …and my work here is done :) Enjoy!

       2. +1, sounds intriguing!

    4. Not exactly what you’re talking about, but The Kingdom on Netflix!!! Korean feudal zombies! Best thing ever.

       1. I may have to check this out! We loved the CDrama Ashes of Love. Now I need things extra enough to follow it with!

    5. Oh boy, I began watching in college, back when the trend was melodramatic cancer tear fest. I continue to watch off and on over the years. Some of my favorites are: Prison Playbook, I Can Hear Your Voice, W: Two Worlds, Reply 1988, Queen Inhyun’s Man, My Love from the Star, Strong Girl Bong Soon.

       1. Love Reply 1988!

       2. If Japanese dramas are on the table, the Hours of My Life was excellent for a more genuine/serious health/illness drama.

          Tatta Hitotsu no Koi was good too though more melodramatic.

    6. I’ve loved K dramas for about 10 years now. My favorites are Full House, I am not a Robot, and Heirs. Their is also an amazing South Korean Film called “I Can Speak” which is about a woman testifying in front of US Congress about Japanese War Crimes and includes actual footage from Congress

    7. I love love love Crash Landing on You. Got addicted to it about three weeks ago and I along with my two other 45 year old college roommates now do international Zoom calls to dissect each episode and watch BTS. It’s given me so much joy amidst a very stressful, disruptive time.

    8. OMG, I started CLOY on Friday and I’m almost done! It really put perspective on being stuck at home during the pandemic–at least we’re not stuck in north korea!

       Other really good ones:
       – Something in the Rain (netflix) – same lead actress, some workplace sexual harassment, but how a 35 year old woman can fall in love with a younger man.
       – Oh my venus (lawyer was hottie in highschool and being a lawyer made her fat; how I so identify with this; she meets hottie rich boy and has drama adventures), I swoon for seo ji sub (who got married this april)
       – Reply 1988 (it’s like a south korean nostalgia thing) but hilarious, lots of the same folks as CLOY
       – Descendents of the Sun (Netflix)- hot!
       – Prison Playbook (Netflix) – like Orange is the New Black, but with Korean men. the first episode or two were scary but then it got GOOD when it brings to like social justice issues through the characters’ backstories.
       – master’s sun (netflix) — About a woman who can see ghosts. but fun.
       – classics include “Kim Sam Soon”, Coffee Prince (SO GOOD), boys over flowers, secret garden
       … oh man, i’ve spent a lot of hours watching kdrama. but a lot of it I watched while cooking since I can just listen.

21. I read that the UC system is dropping the SAT/ACT for in-state students and replacing it with a specific UC test. We live a state with theoretical good state Us, but we are also zoned for our state’s largest high school, so admission chances are around 0% most kids, even if they are bright and have good enough test scores (they are just too fungible to other bright kids with good test scores). Many people apply to the UC system b/c they are good schools and often well-priced compared to private schools. For out of state students, it looks like we should still send in SAT/ACT scores (but I would hate to put my kids through another standardized test as well (hello, Stanford-Pepperdine-Other States State Us)). Is anyone else keeping up with this? If there is no SAT/ACT, is it just a lottery basically? Or a crapshoot?

    1. As a UCLA alumna, I am horrified. Especially in a giant system like UC where at least some admissions decisions are made on the basis of a formula, simply relying on GPA or class rank is not enough to distinguish among top students or to ensure equity among students from different high schools. If the SAT and ACT are fatally flawed, UC needs to come up with another common yardstick that can be applied to all students.

       1. I think that if UC thinks that standardized tests are flawed, it is probably ultimately going to be the case that their replacement standardized test will be flawed.

    2. I’m very curious to see how this plays out in practice. Believe this doesn’t take affect for 5 years so a lot can change/happen by then. The UCs have a HUGE number of applicants so they need to have some objective metric to test. I know there’s a plan to have a UC specific test. I would not be surprised with given the size of the UC system (and the fact that I suspect the Cal State system will follow suit and that many other schools will jump on the abandon the SAT/ACT bandwagon now that a system with the status the UC system has from its size and reputation) if some entirely new test becomes the standard test for admission over the next few years. Honestly, it’d be great to see a bunch of state university systems band together to create such a test.

       1. But . . . isn’t another standardized gatekeeping test going to have the same issues? I really don’t see how this isn’t change for the sake of change. I get that tests may not be the most meaningful metric, but how do you sort through any large volume of tests for at least an initial first cut (or hire more application readers, who may be more subjective in a bad way)? And then weight in kids who don’t/can’t pay vs tuition-paying students vs higher-paying foreign students in a way that is fair (IDK what fair is, but I get that a school can’t only let in foreign or out-of-state students or just SoCal students or just scholarship students without generating outrage or blowing the budget for scholarships).

          1. Not necessarily. There is a ton of literature on the biases of the SAT/ACT. Of course it’s impossible to create a perfect test without any bias but it’s highly likely that a test created by people who are not a bunch of upper class/upper middle class white dudes will have less of the bias issues than the SAT/ACT, particularly if it’s being designed by a diverse group of people/a taskforce with a goal of making the test not amplify already existing systemic biases.

             I agree, you need some sort of test given the sheer volume of applicants but that doesn’t mean it has to be the SAT/ACT. I also don’t care if making a California test adds another barrier for out of state/foreign students, as you noted, I think anyone who isn’t a California resident should generally be paying full freight anyways and can have an added hurdle if they want to attend a university that’s (should be) a public good.

             1. Why not do what TX did and presumptively admit the top 10% of students in a class to somewhere in the UC/CSU system? The first cut through that is still a lot of work, but it is one less burden to put on kids and families, at least in-state ones.

                And for schools like UCLA, they are like UVA and UNC (and others) — large competitive national universities where the in-state kids pay a lot less. It seems odd that they care about a kid from SD with a good ACT score but a kid from CA with an equally good score won’t get the same review b/c I bet admissions people can’t meaningfully review every promising kid.

             2. The UC system does do this, but I think it’s top 4% (at least it was when I graduated). I got in to two UCs automatically this way.

             3. Anon at 11:33: first off, the UCs do this, but it’s top 4% (or at least it was when I was in high school, they may have had to lower that percentage).

                On testing, my suggestion was that this new California test be a requirement for every applicant to a UC. Every kid in California would take it presumably at their high school for no cost. If a kid from out of state wanted to apply to the UCs, he or she would need to sign up and take the test. It’s not that the out of state kid would have his/her ACT scored reviewed but the in-state kid would not, it’s that the ACT would not be part of the review, just the new CA test.

    3. I was surprised to see that the UC system made this decision after its own internal study found that the SAT/ACT helped more black and Hispanic students gain admission. As someone who went to a poor, rural, majority-Hispanic high school in California, I can tell you that the PSAT and SAT highlighted some students’ potential that the teachers didn’t always see or encourage. When you’re bright but you come from a school with zero AP classes, no clubs, and mixed instruction, sometimes you need an external way to distinguish yourself. That’s not to say that the SAT is without problems, but that’s more than I can get into on a quick post here.

       1. I agree. There are problems with the tests themselves, the testing industry, and high stakes testing in general, but often other parts of a college application favor privileged applicants even more than the tests do.

    4. If you are from Nowheresville where no one has heard of your school (which may not offer AP classes), how on earth do you signal to schools like UCLA that you can hack it there? I get it if you went to Harvard-Westlake but if you are from Charming, CA, does your application just go into a void? What if you are from New Mexico though — they care about those kids more? That doesn’t seem fair to the in-state kids.

       1. Of course they care about the kid from NM more–that kid pays out-of-state tuition.

          1. No. They don’t. There’s an agreement with NM. That’s why she brought it up.

       2. So I went to an elite private college, not a UC, but the top college admissions people are familiar with pretty much all high schools. I went to a Midwestern public high school that was good but not great (vast majority of students went to the state U) and I was still able to gain admission to some of the best private colleges, as did a handful of my classmates. I don’t think my SATs made my case for me (they were very good overall but still pretty average for my college). Rather I think it was my letters of recommendation, my activities and summer experiences (including research) and my essays/interview. Most schools strive to have diversity in the geographic and socioeconomic sense as well as the racial sense, and I don’t see why that would change, so I don’t see this hurting kids from smaller or less fancy schools. I don’t think I know enough about it to say whether eliminating the SAT is a good thing, but I don’t see this hurting students from less prestigious schools.

          1. Kids in my town weren’t doing “research” in the summer. We all worked in food service or babysat. We were able to get good recommendations (for the most part) since our teachers knew us so well, but that was one of the only strengths of coming from a poor rural school.

             1. Yes, I’m privileged, I’m not denying that at all, but I imagine disadvantaged kids could write more compelling essays than I could, and could have equally strong teacher recommendations. I don’t think the SATs favor disadvantaged or rural kids, especially with all the test prep that’s available for wealthy people in major cities. I think there are a lot of studies that eliminating testing requirements generally helps poorer students and under-represented minorities more than it helps wealthy whites kids.

             2. It’s a mixed bag. Our English instruction was poor and for most kids at my school, English was their second language. That’s where the opportunity to do well on the math SAT came in. I was among the most privileged at my school and was definitely the best writer (there was definitely a big correlation between those two points) – many of my friends struggled with basic essays and assignments simply because our quality of instruction was not at college-level much of the time and because of their challenging home lives/economic situations. Some kids did really well in spite of the challenges, of course, but I don’t think that getting rid of the SAT is going to help them. The UC system’s own study showed otherwise too.

          2. I will give a counter-example. We are zoned for a huge high school — thousands of students. The top 10% of any class has access to AP and IB classes but is maybe 125 kids. All of those kids could easily qualify for flagship state U (probably the top 25% would be reasonable contenders if coming from elsewhere). But flagship state U may only take 10 of that 125. That leaves 115 kids, many of whom may need to go to a lower-cost school, overlooked b/c of fungibility and politics (can’t take them all!), not to mention the kids in the next couple of tranches down. It just seems more and more arbitrary as to who gets to go where, even among qualified applicants, and the prize of low in-state tuition is reserved for higher-paying out of state students and the goal of sprinkling the prized spots throughout the state (and it’s not like high school kids chose where to live). I’ve heard of parents sending kids to out-of-neighborhood schools where their kids will be more competitive (but displacing, perhaps, promising neighborhood kids). It is just so fraught and so few parents can pay even full-freight these days, much less OOS and private school tuition.

          3. Elite private colleges care very much about having students from all 50 states. They also care about your SATs relative to your state and your background; if you live in a nice suburb in the Acela corridor with college-educated parents, they expect to see truly top SAT scores.

    5. This may be an unpopular opinion, but honestly, yeah, I wish elite schools would establish baseline criteria for what is needed for acceptance and then run a lottery instead of the complete circus that elite college admission is currently. It would eliminate a lot of hand wringing that really only affects a very small segment of the already privileged population (with a few non-privileged students thrown in the mix to assuage their guilt) and let discussions on education policy focus more on outcomes that affect broader groups of the population instead of further entrenching the elite.

       1. I agree. A lottery almost seems fairer than what happens now.

    6. As a neighbor to UC Berkeley, this much I can tell you: they are verrry motivated to get more out-of-state students, because they otherwise can’t balance their numbers with all the in-state students they are obliged to accept. In whatever way they reshape admissions, they will be very careful to make sure out-of-state kids can still pay them tuition. The expanding student numbers at UC Berkeley have strained the relationship between campus and city administration/neighborhoods for years.

22. Please excuse a basic and possibly stupid question, but: why do we need to go to follow-up medical appointments for test results? I had an MRI on my breast, which I do every year as I am high risk due to family history of breast cancer, and got the results back via the imaging place patient portal. Results are negative (hooray!) But my breast specialist dr. had me book a follow-up to review the results. I know the imaging center sent the results to the dr.’s office so they have the records and I have the records. So what is the need for a follow-up appointment? I really like my dr., she is the only breast specialist in my area that I am aware of, she only takes patients who have cancer, are cancer survivors or who are high-risk and I don’t want to piss her off or piss off her staff. Should I cancel the appointment?

    1. I’d call and ask the purpose of the appointment, and if it can be done by telephone or telemedicine.

    2. Definitely call and ask if they could do it over the phone. My gyno recently called me for an appointment to review test results. I sat in the patient room for 45 minutes, she came in for 5 minutes to review one very minor point but they got to bill me for an office visit.

    3. This is a thing right now. Many of my friends in medicine are complaining that their facilities are trying to turn every possible thing into something billable right now to make up for lack of revenue. If you usually get the results over the phone and they suddenly want to schedule an appointment, this is probably why. They should get paid for telehealth too so see if you can convert it to that.

23. DH and I have been in DC for over a decade with DC-centric careers but have always thought about relocating to Georgia (Atlanta or Athens) to be closer to family. The coronavirus has made these thoughts grow, and his job now permitting remote work long term may be the push we need to make this a reality. I would love to hear any and all similar experiences of moving to the Atlanta area as a transplant, or even moving from a city to a small college town. The career unknowns have always been the biggest challenge for us, but I realize that the change in lifestyle likely impacts a lot of other areas I have yet to think about! TIA!

    1. Atlanta and Athens might as well be different planets (Think DC vs Blacksburg VA), so start there. Do you want big city or college town?

       1. Very valid! We would love to ultimately move to Athens, but I think that the change might be too dramatic right now. Athens is also harder career-wise because I do regulatory law at a large firm in DC and don’t think that skill set would have much value in Athens.

       2. This is true, but I would also say that in-town Atlanta and the OTP (outside the 285 perimeter) suburbs, which are not really Atlanta-proper anyway, are also different worlds, as Anon Probate Atty observes.
          I’m an Atlanta transplant, many of my friends are transplants, and I LOVE Atlanta. Caveat–I live in a very walkable in-town neighborhood, 0.5 mile from a MARTA station, and my office is in Midtown. That kind of proximity is prohibitively expensive for a lot people, and that’s not lost on me. But that proximity also means that the things people generally complain about in “Atlanta” (traffic, chain restaurants and strip malls, lack of walkability) don’t really affect me as much.
          Atlanta has all the great amenities of a big city–amazing food scene that’s only getting better, great arts and theatre scene (I find it better than Anon Probate Atty suggests), professional sports, good healthcare options, the airport (which is super easy to navigate if you’re a local, but yes, TSA precheck and Clear are very worth it here). Despite all that, it manages to feel like a small town. More accurately, perhaps, it manages to feel like a collection of small towns, cobbled together. There are all these great in-town neighborhoods with their own distinct personalities and their own little “downtown” areas, a phenomenon that allows people to find a place that fits them and really put down roots there. As a person who grew up in a very small town, I love that. Atlanta is never going to be NYC or SF, but it’s not trying to be. That’s ok.
          I also LOVE Athens, and if I had a different professional life, I could happily live there. I’m happy to talk to you about Athens, but again, Athens and Atlanta aren’t comparable goods.

    2. I lived in ATL for 11 years and have many friends and family members there. It’s not for everyone. First, it doesn’t have much of a public transit system, which coming from DC, you might be accustomed to. Second, the burbs skew heavily Republican (you may or may not mind but just FYI); the city itself is liberal, but very poorly run. I could go into detail if you like, but will refrain from publishing a novel. If you do move to the burbs, the traffic is just absolutely terrible if you need to commute…anywhere. Even commuting from burb to burb, without getting on a highway was a nightmare experience for both DH and myself. Your life will be ruled by traffic. As far as the airport, the good news is that as the main Delta hub, you can get flights to just about anywhere. The bad news is that it’s terribly crowded and flights in and out are regularly delayed; all in all it was always an extremely stressful experience (I never had Clear or TSA recheck while I lived there, and I would say that Clear would be a must; even the TSA precheck line is awful on the regular). The art museums leave much to be desired (granted, I haven’t been to the High or any other museums for over 10 years, so that may have changed). And there is a very Southern-dominant culture which you may or may not like. Positives: beautiful trees and greenery throughout the city, lots of good restaurants and lots of job opportunities (at least, pre-COVID). Fun for sports, at least the Braves games were fun; the Falcons games generally draw a rougher crowd (at least 12 years ago, the last time I went to a Falcons game). Many educated transplants.

       1. This is extremely helpful, thank you! The commute aspect is on my radar from my family that lives there. They moved solely because the commute to their kids school was a nightmare from their old house. I also appreciate your point about the suburbs skewing republican. Work-wise I’ve come from a heavily bi-partisan environment and I have family with a full spectrum of views, but our friends circle is largely liberal. I’m hopeful we could make friends in Atlanta but I realize the dynamic will certainly be different. Would love any further thoughts you have on this from your experience if you care to share. I can also post a burner email if you don’t want to comment here!

          1. I have a much longer comment awaiting moderation, but I moved to Atlanta as a transplant and have had no trouble making friends here. I deeply love this city, and I’d be happy to share more if you drop a burner.

          2. Happy to talk. Please post a burner email!

             1. Thank you everyone for the insight and willingness to chat. My burner is dcretteanon@gmail.com if you want to talk more!

       2. “Your life will be ruled by traffic.” Truth. Atlanta is such an infrastructure nightmare. NIGHTMARE. And the sprawl is so bad and so generic. So many traffic lights and strip malls in the burbs.

          Friends in Athens are insanely in love with it (and only one’s an alum).

          If you’re looking for a southern city, how about Huntsville? It has a lot going for it. There are lots of educated professionals there with the NASA center.

          1. Although “ruled by traffic” has described my life in DC other than in DC proper and parts of North Arlington that I can walk to from any part of Farragut West / Foggy Bottom. Car traffic is often necessary and is wretched. I live on the Orange Line. My in-laws live in Fairfax County. I can see them on weekends, but otherwise, I’d need to take half a day off of work to navigate traffic, HOV restrictions, etc. I had to go to Freddie Mac once and felt like I’d get the vapors when I overshot one lousy turn and felt like it took half an hour to get back on track. And there was the time I missed the turnoff and would up on the Dulles road by accident and OMG so awful. A lot of DC jobs and opportunities are not metro-accessible on at least one end. And it is soooo expensive.

    3. I live in Atlanta now. We moved from DC. We went to Emory for grad school, moved back to DC, moved back to ATL and visit Athens/north Georgia on the regular and still have friends in that area. Do you have an email or something I can ping you at?

       1. Just posted above, but it’s dcretteanon@gmail.com!

    4. I’m a little biased because I live here, but I really like Atlanta. My husband grew up in the Midwest, lived in DC for a bit, and eventually came down here for work. He seems to fit in well, and he likes how much more laid back and less image conscious we are compared to DC.
       Athens is definitely a college town, and a southern college town at that in the middle of no where. Just consider what rural Georgia might be like with your cultural and political priorities. That being said, Athens is super affordable and has a nice little downtown strip, but you aren’t close to Atlanta or other civilization. You will be dealing with drunk college kids pretty much every weekend. UGA is a HUGE football school, so the fall semester is all about saturday football games.
       Atlanta is pretty ethnically and socio-economically diverse imo. It’s considered affordable compared to a place like DC. The airport is huge and you can get pretty much anywhere on a direct flight (not that it matters right now). There are loads of great neighborhoods downtown that each have their own little culture. The public schools in Atlanta aren’t great if that’s a priority for you. Atlanta is also a driving town. We don’t have the same great public transit infrastructure as other major cities. It’s hot and humid in the summer, but we don’t really get severe weather. You can drive 5 hours and be at the beach or 5 hours in the other direction and be in the mountains.
       We have ok cultural entertainment like museums, music, etc. It’s not exactly what we are known for. Food’s good. Outdoor entertainment is pretty great (trails, public parks, etc). There are a ton of major companies that have large offices here. Before all this, the job market was pretty good, and it seems to be doing alright still.
       It could be quite a culture shock at first, but things are quieter and slower paced here if that’s what you are looking for.

       1. I would disagree that public schools in Atlanta aren’t that great. While that is true in many neighborhoods, schools in the Atlanta metro area vary widely and include some great clusters.

          1. Ok true. Within City of Atlanta Public Schools, there are some great schools, but by and large you aren’t going to get through K-12 in a great school cluster unless you are toward the northern suburbs. They have come a long way in recent years though.
             Once you get outside of Atlanta Public Schools and toward the suburbs, it does vary a lot and you can go through K-12 in top notch schools all the way down to horrendous. Cobb, North Fulton, Gwinnett counties all have pretty consistently good schools. I think Fayette is pretty good on the south side as well.

    5. In-laws live there, and we have thought about what our life would be like if we moved there. (It would be the only logical move from our current city.) If you are moving for proximity to family, you really need to look at what the career options are in that area of town. For example, if we moved to ATL, based on where our jobs would be, we would still live about an hour (w/o traffic) from my in-laws. So, while we could see them on weekends without doing a whole weekend trip, it’s not like we would be close enough that MIL could help with impromptu child care or that we could do casual weekday dinners, etc. If we lived near my in-laws, we would have hour long commutes (w/o traffic) each day to work, and MIL would still be 20 min (w/o traffic) from us. Also– in-laws love it, but they have jobs that are either in the suburb they live in, WFH, or only require commuting into another area one day a week. In-laws also haven’t lived in other cities and don’t have the same hatred for suburban sprawl I do.

       *I included the times w/o traffic because I think you really need to consider just how big and sprawling ATL is as well. It isn’t like my current SEUS city, which has bad traffic, but you can get around easily at times of day w/o traffic or on weekends. ATL is still a bear to get around even when there is not traffic.

    6. I’ve lived in Atlanta since 2006 when I moved here for law school. I absolutely love it. I prioritized commute and walkability when purchasing a home, and I have never regretted it. I love my smaller, older home in an in-town neighborhood. My life is absolutely not ruled by traffic, but that’s by design. The food scene here is great, and there are tons of cultural events and festivals every weekend. Almost all of the circles I run in are very liberal, and I would not really call it Southern-dominant.

    7. Lawyer, been in ATL for about a decade now. Pretty much second everything that everyone else has said. I’ve liked living here and think that the city has a lot going for it. There are *lots* of transplants here, so many that if you’re actually from ATL people will say, “oh! so rare!” (it’s not that rare…). People are friendly and welcoming. The many different neighborhoods all have their own flavor. The restaurant and bar scene is thriving. I live in a walkable part of town and live within a mile of probably 80+ restaurants. In pre-corona times we have tons and tons of festivals from April through October, which is a lot of fun. If you’re into soccer, we’ve got the Atlanta United team which is super popular. Concerns are public schools, cost of housing (maybe not a big deal if you have biglaw salaries and are used to DC prices), and traffic (even inside the city if you’re not doing a super commute. It’s maddening how it can take 40 minutes to drive 4 miles home and you’re never even getting on the highway.) Worse, there is zero momentum or political will that will ever do anything about it. As for career prospects, you’re right that you’re unlikely to find a plethora of job opportunities there. Also living in ATL will give you greater access to the legal community (to build your network, etc) than Athens will. The GA bar is pretty collegial, which is great, but the Atlanta legal community can be a little insular.

       Athens is lovely but unless you’re specifically looking for a quieter and slower-paced lifestyle, or a smaller city feel *right now* I think you’d get more out of living in ATL. Athens is a relatively close drive for a weekend trip and will always be there to visit :)

    8. I live in Atlanta and while I’ve thought about moving to the northeast when my kids have flown the nest, there are so many positives to living here that I probably won’t. We live inside the perimeter, so traffic isn’t a huge concern for us. Atlanta is about 5 hours from the beach and 2 hours from the mountains and 30 minutes from an airport with flights everywhere. Lots of outdoor stuff to do. All the major shows and exhibits come through, and despite what others have said, I think we have a good theater and music scene. TONS of great restaurants of all stripes, including many ethnically diverse ones. All the shopping resources you could ever use (including little specialty shops, farmers’ markets, etc.). Weather pretty good most of the year, except the 2-3 hottest months. No major natural disasters to worry about (no earthquakes, wildfires, very rare tornadoes, get the edges of hurricanes, but never the bad onslaught, no flooding except right on the edges of creeks). Good variety of neighborhoods. Pretty good cost of living. Fairly diverse people (more black/white, but Hispanic growing fast and a decent contingent of Asian).

       You couldn’t pay me to live in Athens. Not into football or drunk college kids. Spent a weekend there recently for a conference and thought the downtown was kitchy and the restaurant options were not good.

    9. I grew up in DC and went to UGA. The culture shock is very real. I love Athens and I would have stayed if I had been able to get a job there after graduating. One thing that I quickly realized is that a lot of people in Athens are from there or somewhere else in Georgia (not just students, this also applied to my coworkers at jobs I had). They go home regularly to see their extended families and friends from high school. As a transplant, you may be the only one of your coworkers that’s left in town on any given weekend. On football weekends, it’s impossible to go anywhere. There’s traffic everywhere, restaurants are all booked, etc. It’s a college town through and through and there’s not a ton of jobs/people that live there that aren’t affiliated with the university. Also, as others mentioned, outside of downtown and campus, it gets extremely rural very quickly. Again, I loved it, but it could not be more different than my life in DC and the surrounding DC suburbs.

24. Curious what you all think about the comments surrounding feminism from Lana del Rey (two Instagram text posts and an Instagram video post). It really bothers me that she brought other female artists into it.

    1. I have no interest in hearing from her at all.

       1. +1 She is misguided (and not that talented IMO but I suppose that is irrelevant here). She can take a seat, work on educating herself and stay in her lane.

25. I have a question about something that happened a long time ago related to dating.

    I did online dating pre-Tinder/Grindr/Bumble – prior to the swipe left swipe right thing. I emailed back and forth with most of my dates for a week or so minimum before we’d meet, so I really got to know these guys a bit. There were several I liked as friends but didn’t have chemistry with in person, though only one of the “friendships” stuck for any length of time.

    When I went on my first date with my now husband, we clicked right away and I was inclined to cancel all my other dates, but I didn’t. I wanted to wait to see if it was going to work, and I wanted to wait until we had the exclusivity talk. During this period I met someone I also liked a lot, though not with the same spark, so mentally I guess he was in backup position.

    I went on one last date with him the day after my now husband talked about whether we were dating other people (he hadn’t had a date in two years. I hadn’t had a date in two days.)

    I didn’t cancel the date because I felt like I’d made a commitment to go. It was at a new restaurant the guy was really excited he had gotten a reservation for, and he had talked at our prior date about how he’d been wanting to try it but was waiting for someone to go with.

    I should add here that this date and all of my dates were a 50/50 split on the check. I absolutely insisted on this.

    Anyway, I went on this date with him and we mostly talked about other things. He mansplained libertarianism to me for a while (without checking whether I knew about it, when I was a registered libertarian) and the whole time I was just realizing that, separate from the fact that I was falling in love with someone else, I really didn’t like this guy as much as I thought.

    At the end of the date, which was our third date, he seemed to expect me to come to his place. I declined and told him then that I was seeing someone else and that I thought he and I were going to go exclusive. He was cool about it but said he was disappointed because he really liked me and to give him a call if it didn’t work out. I thought it was fine.

    Ten years later I ran into him at a work thing. He said, in front of other people, oh you’re the woman who let me date her while she already had a boyfriend! Hahah. He tried to play it off like it was funny, but I could tell that it really bugged him.

    So, long story, was it wrong of me to go on the last date? I didn’t cost him any money because we split the bill, and it was a restaurant he had wanted to go to, and I felt like I should tell him to his face rather than cancelling by text…. but maybe I was looking at this all wrong.

    ps I’m no longer a libertarian.

    1. Yes. I understand why you didn’t want to cancel, though, and in the grand scheme of things it’s really NBD. I’ve done similar — dated several people at once when I really liked one by far the most, or when I was still hung up on an ex that I was still kinda talking to. In retrospect, I realized that these were not great things to do.

       1. +1. I think it’s totally fine to see multiple people at the same time (that’s the purpose of dating, right?). Generally after 3ish dates I’d know whether or not it was someone I wanted to get serious with. That was about when I’d stop seeing other people and bring up the ‘define the relationship’ talk with the guy I liked best.

    2. No you didn’t do anything wrong. I don’t think I would have felt the need to tell him you were seeing someone else and that you thought you and this other guy were going to go exclusive, that seems a bit odd in that situation. You could have just declined to go to his place and let it be the end of it. He sounds like a real jerk to be honest, to bring this up 10 (TEN!) years later in front of other people. The 50/50 check thing is really not that important to the point.

       1. Agreed. He thought that you should go back to his place for s-x b/c it was the third date? And after you told him you were going to be exclusive with another guy and he did not even pay for dinner? What a loser!

    3. I mean it’s only wrong because you had already decided to exclusively date someone else. You should have cancelled. But also just move on.

    4. I think this comes down to just a fundamental divide in people. Some will date multiple people until they agree to be exclusive with somebody. There’s nothing wrong with that, unless you continue dating others after you have that discussion. For others, once they go on two or three dates with a person they’re really interested in, they stop exploring other options. I also think there’s nothing wrong with this approach. At least for me, once I’m really excited about someone and see long term potential, I don’t get interested in others. And I don’t wanna keep up the slog that I find online dating and first dates to be.

       Having said all that, I think you just hurt his ego when you effectively told him that you’re picking somebody else over him

    5. I don’t think you did anything wrong. You weren’t fully committed to or exclusive with your now husband. There was room for the possibility that, on this 3rd date, things with backup guy would click, he’d sweep you off your feet, and you’d go home with him. Only by having a date with him did you realize you didn’t like him as much as you thought. That’s what dating is for.

       You took a little bit of a cop-out implying that it was about someone else. Even if things hadn’t worked out with your now-husband, you probably wouldn’t have called the mansplainer, or if you had to distract yourself, it wouldn’t have lasted. Nobody really wants to examine why they were rejected, so it’s understandable that, over 10 years, he re-interpreted this story into you already having a boyfriend and the date being pointless. Oh well. It’s dating, and we don’t owe people we’re rejecting brutal honesty.

       1. I agree with every word of this. Also, mansplaining libertarian guy is terrible and pathetically insecure. Who hangs onto things like that and brings them up in public a full decade later just to feel like a big man for a second?

    6. My parents dated for a short time before they got engaged. My mother’s social planning was longer than that. This meant that she went on a date with another guy after she got engaged to my dad. She didn’t want to leave him without a date for a college event. Would your date have preferred that you stood him up? You had plans and you kept them. Nothing wrong with that.

    7. There is no amount of nitpicking the details of your behavior (which I think was fine, give or take telling him about the other guy) that makes up for him being a jerk to you in public ten years later. Good grief.

       1. +1 TEN. years. later. In front of other people. Insane.

          1. Right? No matter what OP did or didn’t do, he 100% comes off as cray cray.

       2. Not even just in public, but at work. What an absolute piece of (work).

       3. Mmmhmm. My hope is that everyone who heard this comment is thinking less of him for saying this.

    8. This guy sounds like a real tool. I hope you don’t have to see him regularly in work circles. I wouldn’t spend another minute second-guessing yourself.

    9. Regardless of right or wrong, this was 10 years ago. Who cares! I say you dodged a bullet on that one considering his behavior. He sounds like a nightmare to date.

    10. After date #3, it’s fine to tell him that you just don’t see it going anywhere, but enjoyed your time together.

        From the sounds of it, you wouldn’t have accepted a fourth date with him even if your husband were not in the picture.

26. I was hoping things would clear up enough for domestic air travel by July, when I have my 30th birthday. I am single and don’t have a great friend group (more a lot of acquaintances and some close friends but who I don’t see often) and so to alleviate the misery of turning 30 alone I had planned a backpacking trip in the Rockies that I have wanted to go on my whole life. I figured that even though short-term rentals may not be legal again by that time, I could camp and make it a real adventure. I planned it all out and set my alarm and woke up and sat at my computer for an hour just waiting for the camping reservation website to officially open again. It took me 15 minutes to get on the site, which repeatedly crashed, and when I did finally get on, all my campsites were already booked up full. So now not only do I have no plans with anyone for my 30th, I don’t even get to go and hide in the mountains to distract myself from the sadness of that. Really not how I had hoped to start off a new decade and I wish I could just skip the day to be honest.

    1. Can you go next year instead? I’m turning 40 this summer and my European vacation I’d planned with my husband is now canceled. I am going to do something small here to celebrate, but we’re just delaying a year. I feel like so much is being delayed a year, it’s small in comparison.

       1. Not OP but I think this whole thing would be so much easier if we just knew that 2020 was canceled and everything could be rescheduled for 2021. The hard part for me (and a lot of other people, I imagine) is not having any idea when things can get back to normal. It seems like a lot of smart people are confident this will drag on well into 2021 if not beyond.

    2. Hugs. The dread leading up to the day is much worse than the day itself, or at least that my experience. Are you comfortable staying in a hotel or motel? That seems safer than air travel to me, and hotels generally have a lot more availability than vacation rentals right now because they’re not as isolated. I really hope you can find something good and still have an amazing trip even if it wasn’t exactly what you’d planned.

    3. I’m sorry your plans fell through, but I encourage you to try again! It sounds like you were aiming to go somewhere popular (if you had to get up early to get on the website) – why not retool and go somewhere more remote/underused? There are still options out there and it would probably be even more fun than fighting the crowds at a more popular area. I can give you some ideas if you’d like – let me know where in the Rockies you’re thinking of going if so.

       1. OP here – Thanks! I was planning on doing the Berg Lake Trail in Mount Robson Provincial Park (as a 6-day camping trip). I have already done a lot of the Rockies – Canmore, Banff and Jasper, Joffre Lakes, Garibaldi, Rocky Mountain National Park in Colorado. I live in Canada so would have to be on Canadian soil due to travel restrictions – open to suggestions!!

          1. Ah, less familiar with the Canadian Rockies, but I love this website for trip ideas (some of the content is behind a paywall, but not all): https://thebigoutside.com/tag/canada/

             It looks like he has a few trips in your neck of the woods. I hope you’re able to find something great – celebrating your birthday with a solo trip sounds like an awesome way to deal with this bad situation.

          2. Thousand Islands Provincial Park and Algonquin Provincial Park in Ontario are great. Algonquin is very well set up for backcountry backpacking trips.
             Most of Atlantic Canada is closed to non- provincial residents or I would suggest the Long Range Traverse in Gros Morne National Park in NL.

    4. Ok, so you can’t go to that campground, but you can go to another one!

    5. I’m so sorry that you’re dealing with this, and I understand feeling bummed! One thing I will add to the other posts above – replacing it with another campground/camping trip might just remind you that it’s your “second choice.” Could you change it to a different kind of trip entirely – like kayaking/sailing or something other than hiking? (I’m not outdoorsy at all, so I’m sure there are other suggestions that I’m not thinking of, the point being to do a totally different kind of adventure, and save your dream trip for another time when you can do it the way you want to.)

    6. There’s an app called Hipcamp that shows you not just public campgrounds, but private land that people have opened up to campers (so like Airbnb but for camping). You can pick what amenities you want at the campsite, what activities are available nearby, etc. All the state and national campgrounds near us are booked solid for months but there are folks posting private campsites on Hipcamp that are still cheaper than a hotel room. You can ask about how far campsites are from each other to make sure the social distancing you feel comfortable with is in place. Try that before you give up on the trip entirely!

    7. It sounds as if you are talking about a trip for which permits are scarce? I would never plan this type of thing around a milestone–the trip should be an end unto itself so you have more flexibility with the scheduling. When I took my family camping at a very popular national park, I had a whole bunch of potential dates selected so that if I didn’t get a slot on the first try, I could try again several times for the same year. The contingency plan was to try for the following year.

27. I know there are other regulars from Chicago, hoping you have some advice or commiseration. We currently live in the most restricted area of the country due to Covid. I agree and understand with most of it, I’m not one of those “open back up” anti-maskers. But the lack of green space/outdoor space is driving me mad. We live in an apt with no balcony. Lakefront is closed. 606 is closed. Many parks are just packed. I tried to go to Humboldt Park this weekend which is absolutely massive and has a parking lot, but the parking lot was closed. All I want is to enjoy some green space with DH and Doggo that isn’t filled to the brim with people, any suggestions where to go?

    1. I don’t know the specifics of your rules, but I live in Indiana and all our state parks and outdoor recreation areas are open so you could come here? Apparently the Indiana Dunes were mobbed with people from Chicago last weekend but you could go to one of the less famous parks if you wanted to better practice social distancing (and I imagine the dunes wouldn’t be as crowded on a non-holiday weekend).

       1. Oh boy, I’m in Chicago but I’m shaking my head at those poeple. I am not ready to put myself/my family at risk by relying on the public health regulations put forward by the same people who elected Mike Pence.

          1. Holcomb and I don’t share political views but he’s no Mike Pence, and I actually think he’s been pretty smart and measured about this. Our numbers have steadily declined despite increased testing, and we’re almost a month past the end of the stay at home order how. We’re not all idiots and kind of gross to stereotype us as that. There are certainly people in every state making bad decisions, and like I said, pretty sure a huge percent of the people at our beaches this weekend were IL residents.

    2. Honestly I go walking with my kids in Lakeview – yeah, the Lakefront itself isn’t open, but there’s plenty of space to walk, and a few little parks here and there.

    3. If you’re up for a drive- the skokie lagoons are a lovely spot to take a walk. Park near the kayak station at Tower Road/Forest Way, and bring masks just in case.

       1. Definitely up for a drive, just not familiar with areas outside of the city. Thanks for the suggestion I will go!

          1. I walk around downtown Elmhurst, LaGrange, Hinsdale, etc. I’m sure you could do the same in Evanston, Kenilworth, etc.

    4. I’m with you, and honestly this slow roll of opening is making me want to move.

       Lincoln Park is open west of LSD so I’ve walked there a lot. Do you bike? I’ve been doing the North Shore Channel Trail and North Branch trail on the weekends.

       Thinking about this summer is just…ugh. I travel for work a lot and this is my first year I can fully enjoy Chicago summer since I’m WFH till September, yet Lightfoot wants everyone to stay home and watch Netflix while she rakes in our tax dollars. Definitely going to take some weekend trips to IN and WI.

       1. It’s making me want to move too (this is OP). I can’t tell if I’m being overly reactionary, but I feel like there is no point in living in the City anymore. I don’t see myself ever taking public transportation or regularly commuting to my office again. I would be so much happier if I had more space and access to green space.

          1. Based on personal observation, the green area between Marine Drive and Lake Shore Drive, from about Foster to Montrose, is accessible. The folks I saw there were physically distanced, even on Memorial Day.

          2. You’re not alone – everywhere I turn, people are debating moving away/have already left. It’s not everyone, but it feels like every venue of my life (gym, neighbors, hobby classmates, significant other’s coworkers) is losing people to other states, plural.

             We just put in an offer on a house in another state for other reasons, but the restrictions moved the dial from this-choice-has-tradeoffs to there-is-only-one -good-option.

       2. Lightfoot, like all cities’ mayors, is certainly not raking anything in right now. Very little to almost no sales tax, convention business or tourism dollars is going to hit Chicago very hard. In fact, I tried to pay my fare on a CTA bus the other day and got told no way.

          I suppose if you are WFH till September or travel a lot for work it’s not a big deal to move out of the City, at least for now. Among my circles, folks are wishing they lived closer to the Loop, near me, so that they could walk or ride a bike to work when they return. It is the suburban folks that are scrambling to lock in parking spots in the Loop before things get crazy. I can’t even imagine the toll a 3+ hour r/t commute will have on my colleagues.

          From time to time, I do look longingly at my sibling’s photos of her and her family playing in their backyard but I know I don’t want her life.

    5. Do you have a car (assuming you can’t bike with your dog)? Evanston and Wilmette have parks open along the lake, and so far I have found them easy to stay socially distant in. Of course, now that it’s becoming summer for real, this may change, but it’s worth a shot!

       1. Have car, will drive!

    6. I live in Fulton Market. I think it kind of depends on what you are looking to do. I’ve seen people sitting in the open space on the river facing side of the DLA Piper/Morton Salt building on the West side of the river and the open space in front of Wolf Point on the East side of the river. I’ve also seen people hitting tennis balls in empty parking lots. There isn’t much in the way of hiking near me though. But if you have a car I would think there has to be options with a bit of a drive.

    7. We’re in the western burbs and there’s a decent amount of green space and bike trails out here. Check out the DuPage forest preserves.

    8. Grant Park is not closed off (although Millennium Park and Maggie Daley are).

    9. Are we in Chicago really the most restricted part of the country?? I guess I assumed we were similar to most major urban areas in blue states.

       1. Nothing has reopened in DC yet, so I doubt you are the most restrictive for the moment. DC is likely entering Phase 1 on Friday, which will reopen a small number of things.

          1. I thought they let the restaurant’s can do curbside pickup, no? My freind Laura said that she got some food the other day on her way home this way, and she lives on Capital Hill.

    10. I’ve been finding that the residential neighborhoods with more single family houses and less larger apartment buildings are nice places to walk or bike or run. I’m avoiding parks and trails, because they don’t have to be that crowded before it becomes hard to social distance. The quiet side streets in many neighborhoods are less crowded. The trees shade the sidewalks. Yards have beautiful flowers. It’s not the same as hanging out at the park or going to the lake or the forest preserve, but it’s been working for me. Logan Square, Avondale, Old Irving, Portage Park, Roscoe Village, Ukrainian Village. Even West Lakeview, away from the high rises, isn’t bad. Basically, pick neighborhoods where street parking is fairly easy and isn’t zoned. I’ve been sticking to the northwest side because that’s most convenient for me, but I imagine it’d be similar if you went south to McKinley Park or Kenwood or Beverly. I have a few friends who live in high rises right on the lake, and that seems like such a stressful place to be right now.

        1. My mother lives on a high-rise on the lake in the Lakeview neighborhood, and she can walk all along inner Lake Shore Drive to her heart’s content, with easy social distancing. That might be harder to do for those on the Gold Coast, I would imagine. I agree West Lakeview is plenty nice and beautiful homes as well. A good friend lives in Bucktown and while she can’t go to Humboldt Park or the 606, a stroll along that area is still nice as well. I haven’t tried Beverly but there are surely nice areas to walk around.

28. Is there a nail polish that doesn’t chip after 1 day? Pre-quarantine, I was wearing gel manis for years. My nails have completely grown out, so it isn’t a nail bed damage issue. I’ve bought several different brands, but they all seem to chip.

    1. Not a recommendation but I had worn gel for years too and I have been unpleasantly surprised at how bad my unpolished nails are now.

    2. What topcoat are you using, and how often are you reapplying?

    3. I’m really bad with chips etc and Essie nail polish with sally hansen top coat has been my go to and I’ve been doing my nails at home regularly for a while.

    4. Avoid all drug store brands (Essie is the worst offender, in my opinion), except for the Sally Hansen base coat. Here is what I have been doing for about a year – Sally Hansen Complete Care 7-in-1 as base coat + two coats of Chanel or Dior color + Chanel Gel Top Coat (optional – this will make them a bit thicker but that’s the way gel nails tend to be) + Dior Abricot Top Coat (so fast drying, you’ll be shocked. My favorite top coat!).

       1. How long does the Chanel polish last? I’m having the same problem with chipping as OP.

          1. With the application layers I’ve described here, it lasts all week for me. I usually do my nails on Sundays as a self care ritual. Also, I highly recommend soy nail polish remover. I use Ella+Mila in the pink bottle, which can be found at Ulta and Target.

    5. Not in my experience. The most I’ve ever gotten was maybe 2 days without chips from a non-gel manicure. I hear some people can go a week, so I’m not sure if it’s something wrong with my nail composition (they tend to be weak), or related to hand/dish washing or frequent showers, or something else. But especially in the age of COVID when we should be washing our hands much more frequently, I just wouldn’t expect polish to last long on anyone.

       1. OP: I bought OPI, Sally Hansen, and Essie as those seem to be brands I see in the nail salon. I have a Sally Hansen topcoat. I get the same chipping results from all of them. Good point about all the handwashing. I’m also using lotion a lot more to counteract the handwashing, which may contribute to chipping.

    6. In the Before Times, I would only get manicures when I was traveling. At home, cooking, cleaning, etc. are guaranteed to chip any polish within a day or two.

    7. I think how your nails are prepared makes a huge difference in how the polish lasts – maybe even more than the brand of polish. A manicure lasts much better when done at my local place, than if I do it myself even with exactly the same polish, under coat, top coat etc. I suspect its a combination of roughing up the nail + making sure its super clean (no oil etc) + polish applied in thin layers. Unfortunately, I’ve also come to believe that the “roughing up the nail” is really hard on the nails.

    8. Get the Essie Gel Setter top coat – it gives a slightly thicker finish that doesn’t chip as easily. My chips end up actually originating at my cuticles where eventually the polish lifts up from moisturizing, rather than at the tips from tapping on things.

    9. I’ve had good luck with Sally Hansen Total Manicure and Essie Gel Couture polishes.

    10. I think the brand itself is part of it, but not all of it. The prep is just as important.

        My longest lasting combo/prep is: (1) swipe nail with acetone; (2) apply quality base coat (I currently am using Tenoverten The Foundation base coat); (3) two to three thin coats of Essie (ensure that you give plenty of time to dry between coats – I try to wait 5 – 7 minutes); and (4) Seche Vite top coat (then give at least 20 – 40 minutes to dry/cure).

        I am very hard on my hands and get 3 – 4 days with no chips using this process. I also always use gloves when I am doing things in water where I can (dishes, dog baths, cleaning, etc.)

        1. Oh, and make sure you are paiting a cap on your nails as well across the tip of the nail with all coats.

    11. Orly bonder basecoat. OPI color (infinate gel is even better than regular), seche vite top coat. Then a clear top coat of any top coat every other day. Before COVID I would get acrylic plus gel polish on my nails, because acrylic or gel alone did not stay 2 weeks. That regime gets me 5-7 days an I wear gloves while cleaning and doing dishes.

    12. Unfortunately, I think it just depends on your nails. I have never had a nail polish last more than a day, even when I’ve used other people’s long-lasting recommendations. Even professionally applied light-cured gel polish only lasts a week on me.

29. I am so grateful that Christian Cooper had the guts to record that interaction and that the rest of the world can now see it. How disgusting but also how insanely, shamefully all too common. I have at times been conflicted about these types of viral videos, wondering where are the angry masses are in the non-viral, run-of-the-mill, daily acts of racism they witness? Do they check others in real life when not shielded by a computer screen (probably not…)? But, still, something about this one specifically struck me, something I can’t quite put my finger on.

    1. She was so awful. Glad he caught it on camera. People need to not just hear about the ugliness POC in this country face but see how awful it is first hand. She knew exactly what she was doing when she made that call and she knew exactly how badly it could have ended for him.

       As a white woman, I am so tired of white women doing this shit. I hate the Karen meme but there’s a reason it’s a thing. Too many GD Karens.

       1. I wish she would be charged with making a false report but I doubt that’ll happen. You’re right that she knew exactly what she was doing, and her apology is completely hollow.

          1. This is actually a great idea. She should totally be charged with making a false report. Police do not need to be dealing with this nonsense in the middle of a pandemic.

             1. +1 although I would edit your last sentence to remove “in the middle of a pandemic”. Police do not need to be dealing with this nonsense ever. And people who waste public goods (police) for racist agendas should be charged.

    2. I think the knowingness and dripping entitlement is what makes it so disgusting. She knew exactly what code words to say on her 911 call, and she said them with ease because, how dare a POC tell her what to do. She deserves all the blowback she gets.

    3. She seemed like she was genuinely scared, but the fact that she led with “African American” just shows that it was about race. Like she wouldn’t have been scared if it had been a white guy.

       Also, that poor dog was being strangled the whole time.

       1. I read her reaction as genuinely indignant not scared. She was furious that he was commenting on her poor behavior.

       2. Yeah, people who treat animals badly tend to not treat people very well, either.

       3. At the beginning of the video, she sounded annoyed, not scared. She sounded scared only when she was on the 911 call, which makes me feel like her “fear” was just to get a faster and more aggressive police response, or to scare the guy. He wasn’t threatening her, he was filming her not leashing her dog the way she was supposed to.

30. Has anyone gotten a haircut? Salons in my area are allowed to open at the end of the week. Just wondering what a haircut is like now. How are stylists dealing with the 6 foot distance? Thanks!

    1. I got highlights and a haircut last week. Only one person was allowed in the salon area (one of those pods), so she couldn’t cut a man’s hair while my color was processing. We wore masks. She did not stay 6 feet away–that would not be possible. She cut my husband’s hair right before mine, and she can’t trim men’s hair on the sides with the mask on, so her male clients, and probably some female clients, are taking their masks off for part of the appointment. I would rate the haircut in the high-risk category, especially because my appointments take about 2 hours. I won’t stop going, but I’ll space my appointments out as far as possible–probably 15-16 weeks instead of 12.

    2. NPR calls haircuts high-risk: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/23/861325631/from-camping-to-dining-out-heres-how-experts-rate-the-risks-of-14-summer-activit

    3. I went early in the morning for a haircut so for a while I was the only appointment there. Towards the end there was one other stylist and client across the salon. Its a warehouse/loft type space so plenty of distance. I texted to let her know I was ready to come in, my temperature was checked when I entered, we both wore masks. Between each appointment, time was blocked out for the stylist to sanitize everything. I usually get the first appointment of the day so other than the masks, this didn’t feel that different.

31. WWYD? Husband bought a car. Two days later, the dealership calls him and says that they miscalculated the tax and he owes an extra $800. We verified the tax rate on our own, and the dealership really did undercharge him the tax. Would you pay it or push back? He paid it, but we were both of the opinion that he might not legally be bound to, since he signed a bill of sale for $x dollars, not $x plus $800.

    1. If the bill of sale itemized the cost of the car and the tax separately, I would say he’s liable as the price of the car was clearly stated. If it was listed as an ‘all in’ price on the bill of sale, I think he wouldn’t be liable. This likely varies based on jurisdiction and the specific tax involved though.

    2. Pay it.

    3. Does it matter after the fact? It’s done. You could presumably hire a lawyer to find out what you’re legally bound to but that’s more expensive than the tax.

    4. Aren’t you legally responsible to pay the tax owed on any purchase? The fact you relied on someone else’s calculation doesn’t change the fact that you owe a certain percent tax on a certain purchase price. That’s between you and the government, not the dealer who passes it along.

       1. How would the consumer know though? It’s a different rate between the counties, not a statewide thing. We live in a city, where apparently the tax rate on cars is 8%. He bought it in a neighboring county where the tax rate is 6%. The dealer charged the 6% rate because that’s where it was purchased, but then discovered that the 8% tax applies because we live in the higher-tax city. Yes of course we relied on the dealer’s calculation because that’s part of his job.

    5. He paid it, so now you just let it go. It’s over and done. I’m guessing you’re feeling something about the situation or you wouldn’t have turned to the internet for opinions, but I’m also guessing that a bunch of people on the internet saying “you were robbed!” or “he was right to pay it” probably won’t help resolve whatever it is you’re feeling or wondering or disagreeing with your husband about or feeling angry or hurt or anxious about. It might help if you’re merely curious about what others would have done.

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