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Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Puff-Sleeve Top

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

In the Before Times, my work wardrobe was pretty consistent –- a sheath dress with a blazer was going to be appropriate for just about anything on my calendar, Monday through Friday.

In 2021, I’m dealing with wide swings from leggings on a WFH day to full suits for court or deposition appearances. When I was looking for a few items for a seasonal wardrobe refresh, I kept an eye out for pieces that could do double duty.

This cotton/rayon blouse from Target works with leggings and a big sweater for a casual day but still looks nice enough to pair with a pencil skirt and a blazer for a more formal moment. I wore this black print with a camel blazer in the office, and with ponte pants over the weekend.

The top is $29.99 at Target and comes in plus sizes 1X–4X and misses sizes XS–XXL. It also comes in five other prints.

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Sales of note for 12.5

Sales of note for 12.5

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277 Comments

  1. I’ve been asked to give a presentation as part of an upcoming job interview (via Zoom). I’ll be talking about some of my previous projects, focusing on things like context, rationale for decisions, outcomes, etc.

    Any advice or tips for nailing the presentation? I’ve done plenty of interviews and do a fair amount of presenting at my current job, but have never given a presentation as part of an interview.

    1. – concise executive summary at the beginning – tell them what you are going to talk about, in general terms. Example: “My work experience consists roughly of 3 categories: individual research & report making, coordinating XYZ projects for ABC stakeholders, interfacing with external clients on ABC issues . I’m going to talk about 1-2 projects in each category in more detail.

      Use the same format for each project, e.g.
      – 1 slide per project
      – 3-4 sections on each slide: Background, Approach, Challenges, Results.
      – max. 4-5 bullet points per section
      – make these bullet points one-liners, if you can, for a clear visual

      At the end, tell them again what you showed them: “This exemplifies my skills and experience along XYZ…”

    2. I’ve sat in on interview panels where this was a part of the process. The biggest things we were looking for were results/outcomes and rationale. So many people just ended presentations without actually sharing outcomes. On the rationale piece, it was always helpful if people focused in on a critical decision point of the project where you actually weighed different options. People i saw do well in interview portion did well in presentation portion. Try to ask before presentation if they will ask questions during or after. I’ve seen both done.

    3. Make sure you clearly explain how you reached consensus on the outcomes, how they were tracked and measured, and how you handled obstacles/roadblocks. I had to do this recently via long form writing samples and verbally and the key things people were looking for was that metrics were id’d early on, measured, tracked against, and how it was handled if/when things went off track (they want to ensure you know how and when to ask for support and handle negative outcomes). I was also asked about how I handled issues of dissent amongst contributors so that they could probe for consensus building skills – it’s more about soft management skills at a certain level and that’s what I would expect they are trying to get out of this.

    4. Don’t read the slides aloud. Give people a moment or two to read, then synthesize or add color.

    5. I just was on an interview panel with a similar structure. I’d be very mindful about making sure you follow all of the components of the prompt. We had a prompt with 3 sections, and had to ding really strong candidates who breezed over one or two sections.

    6. I echo the others. Be consise, smile alot, look at people in their eyes, and make sure your breathe is fresh b/c if they like you, they will come up to you and you should not be eating pizza or anything else that can get stuck in your teeth and give you bad breathe.

  2. Now that we are trickling back in to the office, I am seeing people now that I haven’t seen in a year. One woman who was a stellar dresser before has somehow upped her game during 18 months at home. It seems like it is a cross between Moira Rose (color-palette, expensiveness) and Shiv Roy (gunning for CEO-type clothes) in an office that is officially casual but that is for the men mostly; only in DC have I seen women not dressing competitively and definitely to telegraph a message (I guess we don’t really have a choice, with guys presumed to care and women having to show competency and willingness to work). If it matters, this person has at least 3 kids, so dressing well and still working in a city where women often don’t unless they are poor is a definite choice (one I am reminding myself I need to make with a bit more care or at least less “at least it’s not pajamas”).

    Any places to look at, at least for inspiration? When I look to places where I think that boss women might shop, they either skew old and not fashionable or more ladies-who-lunch than ladies-who-could-take-your-company-public. I’m a bit at a loss as to how to really improve.

    1. The Fold. A Nordstrom’s personal shopper wouod also be useful for helping you find pieces and make outfits, so you don’t end up with a bunch of random stuff.

      1. This, plus LK Bennett, Rebecca Taylor’s suiting line, and Brooks Brothers (as a 40yr old with kids the fit is more forgiving for me than Theory, the quality is great and I’ve gotten some steals on their end of season sales). I carry weight in my middle/thighs (yay 40s) and Talbots and Ann Taylor have some of the best fitting work pants for me personally.

      2. Also, the shoes at LK Bennett are GREAT, if you know your UK size they are 100% worth sale stalking.

    3. “ so dressing well and still working in a city where women often don’t unless they are poor is a definite choice”

      I’m curious about the above quote, and the whole post – are you saying that women in DC do NOT try to dress well at work? That they DON’T dress to “telegraph a message?”

      I mean, DC definitely does not have a reputation for stylishness, but I think women generally do dress appropriately for their position.

      1. I think that DC dresses basic, which is awesome as a person with no budget and no time to shop and no real sense of style beyond datewear and adult prom equivalent (where I do have strong opinions). It is very egalitarian. Get a sale suit at Potomac Mills? It will never not be fine if it fits you. Wear with a basic blouse. Always fine. No one wastes $ or time. Everything takes to a transit commute well. It is like a uniform for those of us not in the military.

        Other places, man, should take to this and sadly I am in another city now where everything is competitive, including, strangely, in an office where one could theoretically just wear jeans and a polo every day. It meets the rules but not the unspoken ones.

      2. “Moira Rose” makes me think that she is talking more about stylish than just appropriate for the position. I get it. Everyone dresses appropriately but some people just look amazing, Olivia Pope in real life, and I would want to emulate that too.

        1. OP here — yes, I agree with this. It’s bonus-level stylishness. Maybe some people just come that way. Outside of fancy-even dresses, I maybe don’t have the bandwidth to do this daily (unless I had a closet of fab clothes and shoes, which perhaps is more the challenge, especially after a year of athleisure).

          1. I agree with this assessment of “DC style” but the phrase about “women often don’t unless they are poor” puzzled me.

          2. One thing I recall when my kids started kindergarten (formerly in day care, where all moms worked) was how few women worked in fancier neighborhoods and it turned out that I had two neighbors who were very much almost closeted about the fact that they worked as it was really looked down on in fancy neighborhoods (like their husbands were less successful or something). It is so weird to me. My mother and grandmother works, but when my sister married a doctor, I got a peek into this and it is wow eye opening. I think in non-fancy areas, it is pretty common for women to work.

          3. In some areas, men can make so much money that it makes very little sense for women to continue working. These are often the same people engaging in the university rat race, so the kids need shuttling to activities, internships, help with their homework, tutors managed, SAT prep arranged, etc.

            Do not forget that a lot of modern women can be quite backwards, and it’s somehow wrong of successful women to point that out. I know easily a dozen women who derive their status from their husbands and look down on me for having an actual career.

          4. @ PolyD: It was an oddly constructed sentence, but I read it as
            – Person dresses well
            – Has children and continues to work
            – Other women with kids in the same city, often don’t work outside the home unless they are poor and do not have a choice

          5. Anon at 11:44 – Huh. I do not think of myself and my friends as poor (most of us make low 6 figures) and I do not know a single stay at home mom.

          6. I just don’t think it’s true that women don’t work in DC unless they’re poor. It’s DC. Lotta ambitious people there.

      3. I think that DC dressing is pretty egalitarian — while the female equity partners married to other equity partners wore St. John, they did readily share that it came from the outlet in Maryland somewhere. Outside of the real housewives of Potomac and a very small handful of tech people, a staffer and a senator dress pretty much the same. I see my AT Loft clothes every day when I take Metro.

        1. Yeah, this. Every woman in DC looks like she purchased all of JCrew & Ann Taylor. It’s very egalitarian style. It helps that political salaries are all public too, so there’s way less angling on appearances. Everyone makes no money unless you go downtown, and then you have less power so you’re less attractive to climbers. It’s just a different ecosystem than NYC or the like.

        2. I was sort of tickled when I saw a necklace I bought at the Talbots outlet a few years ago worn by a Congressional representative in a news clip. It’s cute but inexpensive and not even very trendy!

    4. My guess is that the style you are describing is similar to a well curated interior design style – stuff collected over the years that gets layered together so it doesn’t look like it came from the catalogue of one store. As far as where to look to emulate the style, just ask her where she shops – she’ll probably tell you. Practical brands right now that are on point for what you are looking for are Veronica Beard, LK Bennett, Rebecca Taylor (takes some sifting), Alice + Olivia (maybe), Club Monaco. I’d also check out Ulla Johnson – great architectural details a la Moira Rose – and the old mainstays for St. Johns (you just need to sift for younger), Ellie Tahari (again some sifting required). Long ways of saying, go spend some time in the contemporary department of Saks/Neimans.

    5. Lafayette 148 (on sale) is quite posh looking because they use really good fabrics and the pieces are so well made you can wear them for ages.

  3. It’s self-evaluation season at my company (which I hate). I can be very persuasive, but I don’t do a great job selling myself, and I definitely have imposter syndrome. Tips? Resources?

    1. Do less. Just sit down today and write a sunny positive assessment. Go back on Monday and edit and call it a day

    2. What would a genuinely supportive colleague say about you? For that matter, what have good colleagues said about you? What metrics does your company have for your position?

      Quote your colleagues, especially if they have said good things about you in an email or a award system.

      I’m also going to point out that underselling yourself is a problem. When women consistently undersell themselves, it gives sexist coworkers an opportunity to do the same. What they say about us just sounds like what we say about ourselves, and that’s really not cool.

    3. -If any of it is “rank yourself 1-5” or whatever, give yourself a 4 minimum. Anything your manager gave you a 5 in last year, give yourself that 5.
      -Don’t forget to give yourself credit for keeping your “steady state” work going – not just the high-profile stuff, the day to day that keeps the business running (like for me that’s supporting a variety of contracting needs). Sprinkle in compliments to yourself like “meeting aggressive timeframes” or “known for providing prompt, practical advice.”
      -Have you developed better relationships with higher-ups this year? Name drop! “Worked closely with X on Y project…”

      1. This is great advice. I have to rank myself on a scale of one to five and I have a hard time ranking myself a 5 even though I feel like I deserve that because I had bragging and don’t want to come off like I think too highly of myself.

    4. Write it and then go back and take out every time “I think” “I feel” and change to “I am.”

      1. +1

        This is good advice in any context. I try to remove “I think” and “I believe” from my writing whenever possible. If I am saying something, of course it is because “I think” it.

    5. Depends on format of your self eval, but here is how I approach mine. Categories to hit: Values (whatever your org’s leadership attributes, core values, etc are), Leadership (where did i specifically lead an effort), Development (my own growth areas and development of others), achievements (results, outcomes, customer/stakeholder feedback). I start with a list of my core ongoing activities and then a list of all projects for the year. Under each of those, i highlight a couple of items across my categories. This gives me the starting point to then summarize appropriately into the company template. I try to actually keep this format going all year in a onenote, but normally fall off that so i do it at year end. Focus on using action verbs wherever possible. Women are prone to use words like support/assist/coordinate versus lead/manage/deliver, so watch for that.

    6. I channel my mediocre douchey colleague and write the way I imagine he writes his — forthright and in recognition of all the hard work I’ve done. It’s the one time a year that I have to memorialize my contributions and it’s read all the way up my management chain (or so I’m told) so I remind myself that this helps create a positive association with my name for the leaders who don’t work with me regularly.

      1. These are the words of encouragement I needed this morning. (And the mediocre colleague comment made me snicker out loud.)

    7. I keep an Attagirl folder during the year and toss all the positive stuff into it, that helps me remember the high points for my self-eval. I also assume the role of an advocate for myself. This is not the moment for introspection and self-doubt.

      1. +1. I also keep a blank template for the self evaluation and add to it throughout the year so I don’t forget accomplishments/contributions.

    8. I think it helps to describe myself in third person when I’m preparing for this stuff.

      Ms Anon is responsible for X, and does this in an excellent way. Ms Anon is point on this task, and her efficient management is the basis of our success in Y. Ms Anon collaborates with company Z in this matter, and so forth.

      I also find it easier to prepare if I link the «bragging» to a matter of fact description of tasks, and the importance to my employer that these tasks are done at the high quality Ms Anon provides.

  4. I changed jobs and am hiring for a certain role. I reached out to the woman who worked for me in that role in the company I just left (she’s still there). Her work was good but not outstanding, but this job is tricky to find top candidates for, so I assumed she’d be the strongest candidate I was likely to get.

    With that in mind, I sent her the posting, encouraged her to apply and told her she’d be a strong candidate, took her out to coffee to discuss the role and tried to sell her on how New Workplace is so much better than our old workplace so she’d apply.

    Well, the candidate pool turned out to be really strong, and I have to turn her down.

    Hiring is generally pretty old hat for me, but I feel guilty and am totally dreading telling her she didn’t get the job. She’s very sweet and shy, and I spent a lot of time encouraging and coaching her when I was her manager, she wouldn’t have applied if I hadn’t encouraged her to do so, and now I’m rejecting her. I feel like a bit of a jerk even though it’s just business.

    1. damn you really gassed that lady up for this job…. I’d hate you so much lol. sorry you have to do it — bon courage!

        2. Yeah, she’s going to hate you. Honestly, in the future, I’d have waited to see the hiring pool before gassing someone up like this, but I get where you were coming from and it’s an honest mistake (though one I’d think you wouldn’t make again – lesson learned!)

          1. +1 she will hate you. Hopefully you learned your lesson and won’t unnecessarily hurt someone like this in the future.

    2. I have been the woman you reached out to before. It did sting, but I really appreciated the hiring person reaching out to me privately before I got the official letter of rejection. She explained why the other person was chosen, focusing on that person’s experience mostly. She emailed me, which I also appreciated bc I didn’t have to act a certain way on the phone with surprise bad news. I really wanted the job, so I was sad, but there are no hard feelings toward the person who encouraged me to apply. I understood that another person fit what she was looking for a bit better and moved along. I hope this helps. It’s a hard conversation, but the best you can do is handle it professionally and kindly.

      1. Thanks, this helps. I appreciate the comment and will reach out to her in this way.

    3. I had this happen recently and was able to refer the good but not amazing person I knew to another person at my company and he’s getting hired in a different role.

      2. I have had something similar happen and told the person I had to turn down that I’d be a reference for them if they applied elsewhere, and that I would let them know if something opened up. Something did, I recommended them, and they got the job. Now, years later, it was clearly a better fit for them than my role would have been. No hard feelings on either side.

    4. You are not a jerk. You didn’t promise her anything. You did not know the pool would be so strong. It would be worse for you if you had not encouraged her and there were no qualified applicants. Applying for a job always comes with the risk of being rejected. Fading rejections and moving forward makes a person stronger.

      1. Thank you, I really appreciate it. I did tell her it was not a guarantee and did not promise anything, for what it’s worth.

    1. Agree, the shine makes them look so cheap. These look like pants that a dollar store would be selling.

    2. I think these leather garbage-bag pants are going to be the 2021 version of what the cold-shoulder tops were a few years back. In quickly, always looks trendy and will never look classic, and then out just as quickly. So if you want in on the trend, don’t spend a lot of money and buy just one or two.

  6. I desperately need some new staple bottoms. My usual go-tos are slacks and pencil skirts (I know a lot of you don’t like pencil skirts anymore, but I think they work well for me). I’m looking for very basic styles, straight-leg, full length pants, simple skirts without any kind of flouncy extras, in black or gray, preferably around $50, in small sizes, and from a place with very easy returns (I hate shopping online for things that are challenging to fit!). Has anyone come across good options for these lately?

    1. I’d start with Macy’s – they have a lot of options and free shipping (above a certain amount) and returns. I’ve had luck with Alfani and Anne Klein for basics, some of the in-house brands aren’t bad either. Macy’s does have fairly frequent sales, too.

      1. Same advice. Alfani, Calvin Klein, and Anne Klein are great for simple pieces you can wear to work for as long as you can fit them.

      1. Yep these pants are awesome and the first thing I thought of when I read this post.

  7. Posted on the mom’s board, but I’d like to hear from non-moms, too. We’re adopting three elementary-aged kids next week. A colleague reached out and said she’d like to hold a “Zoom shower” for us later on when we’re settled in. She mentioned toys and clothes. Friends and family have given us all the toys and clothes we could possibly need. Honestly, the only thing we need is 529 contributions since we’re missing out on years and years of compound earnings (and holy cow, we are tapped out financially since adoption is $$$$$ and it’ll be months before we could even begin to think about starting our own contributions for them). But this is a no, right, and I need to come up with toys and clothes to ask for?

    1. no, absolutely not. you should make a “registry” for 529s.

      as a non-parent I HATE buying toys and crap for small humans. I would RELISH writing you a check for this insanely amazing thing you’re doing. exactly the way you described it. Anyone with a brain knows adoption is expensive.

    2. I could not imagine asking my colleagues to contribute to a 529. That’s really not okay.

      You have all the toys and clothes you need now. Kids grow FAST. I would ask for sneakers, boots, coats (winter and lightweight summer rain coats), that are one or two sizes up from what they are wearing now. You’ll be really surprised at how you constantly buy clothes. I would also ask for summer items, which can be found online year-round. Life jackets, swim trunks, flip flops – that adds up so fast.

      1. More ideas: booster seats, suitcases, pillows, bedspreads, sheets, decorations for their rooms, fun toiletries, giant Costco-sized shampoo and conditioner for kids, bath towels, beach towels.

      2. I wouldn’t ask for 529 help for kids I had, but I think when you adopt 3 at once, that is different. If they were just foster kids with you, they could get need-based help for college. But as your kids, your stability will count against them (or against your ever retiring), which is unfortunate since you are doing an AWESOME THING (sadly, foster kids are often SOL when they turn 18 and age out and no one helps them to launch in most states). I think for a mass adoption, it is different.

        FWIW, my house got a sudden addition built on when the prior owners adopted . . . 3 kids. The two boys were eagle scouts (we occasionally get mail meant for them). They are all adults and are doing well from neighbors who keep up with the family still.

        1. The OP’s kids are too young; however, kids who are adopted at age 13 or over are automatically considered independent for the purposes of their FAFSA (i.e. their adopted parents’ income is not taken into consideration). Furthermore, some states waive in-state tuition and mandatory student for kids who are adopted out of the foster system.

          Which is to say, it’s actually a lot more nuanced than you are making it out to be.

    3. Personally I think it’s fine in this case to ask for what you need. Congratulations!!

    4. I agree that it’s probably a no, but honestly, as a non-parent, I’d be perfectly happy to just give you cash and have you do whatever you want with it. Telling me I need to spend a bunch of time to figure out what clothes or toys your kids would want only to find out later you have everything you need and it was a huge waste would just make me sort of annoyed at you and having to participate in workplace “baby” showers. I want to celebrate the arrival of your children and give you something you actually need, not waste my time jumping through performative hoops to be socially acceptable.

      1. I agree as a non parent but I’m sure they just want to celebrate your new family members! Congratulations! Could you ask for experiences, like a zoo membership (depending on the COVID situation in your area, of course). Or things that get used up, like art supplies? Part of the issue is the fun of seeing the presents get opened. One shower I went to asked each person to bring a favorite book from their childhood. Maybe you could do something similar in the age ranges of your children so there is still something to open and talk about?

    5. I agree that you can’t dictate what kind of gifts you receive, that’s just rude. Maybe you could donate what you don’t need to kids in foster care?

    6. Congratulations to you and your family on your adoption!
      Tell your colleague what you need and they can spread the word. I, and others I am close with (knowing from similar situations), are extremely happy to contribute to 529s or cut a check to support a child’s future educational needs. We know that kids outgrow toys and clothes.

    7. I actually think that in this case it is completely appropriate. It’s for the kids, not you. I would not be offended at all and in fact would be happy to know I was “spending” on something that these little muffins could use. Your shower host can tell guests that you have every material thing you can use but that any donations to the children’s education funds would be gratefully received.

      Also, congratulations to you and your husband and enjoy the beautiful chaos to come.

      1. Sorry, I am assuming “husband”. Apologies if that’s not correct. Congratulations and best wishes.

    9. I don’t have kids, so caveat, but do you need books for them? I could see a shower where you ask for people’s favorite kids books to build a library and help them develop a lifetime love of learning, and add that you’re also taking donations to their 529s to fund college when the time comes. There’s something about pairing a good with the actual financial contribution that sits easier, and it gives people a totally acceptable out if they aren’t money people. Also, books are easier to store or give away that other bulkier stuff, which may make it less of a strain on you.

      (Spitballing, but I could see this approach being a great way to instantly tie the kids into your community if you also are able to include some info about the kids, like Taylor loves the Series of Unfortunate Events and Sam adores dinosaurs. You may hear from coworkers with kids who have similar interests and if they’re local, could be potential friends for your kids or sources of information for you.)

      Finally, CONGRATULATIONS!

      1. This is the best idea. Books + 529 contribution for those willing and able to spend more.

      2. My old office did book-only office showers, and it worked really well (IMO). I think this is a great idea.

    10. I think it would be totally fine to say something to the effect of ‘we are all set for most of our toys/clothes but we’d love it if anyone who is willing to contribute would pick an age appropriate book or make a donation to the kids 529 plans – education is so important to us and we’d love to make sure each of them has a college fund started!’. If they push back hard on ‘stuff’ is there any big items you don’t have that would be handy? Extra car seats, winter coats, snow boots, pjs, socks, etc.?
      If you foresee counseling needs for these kids I think it’s also totally fair game to be honest about that and ask if people would contribute cash so that you can use it for ongoing OT/PT/therapy as pretty much everyone gets that is both expensive, and rarely well covered!

      1. Also, gift cards to good stores like Lands End or Old Navy for kids’ wear (things that will last long enough to be handed down). A kid loses a jacket each winter (maybe just our house), times three is $$$. Water bottles for school?

        Also, if language or home culture are new in you house, maybe some cookbooks and language books from their prior culture?

      2. I love this wording. And the alternative of a book is still education-related so it all ties together.

    11. “This is a lovely offer. Thank you. There’s not a thing or item we need, but would truly appreciate any contributions to their future 529 accounts.”

    12. Admittedly no one in my circle has kids yet, but I think asking for money for a 529 (or therapy as was suggested below) is an excellent idea. I would totally support that!

    13. I actually think its fine to ask for 529 contributions. Its nicer because its not money for yourself, its for their education, and people always like giving money for that. And if you were my coworker I would actually feel like I was contributing (a tiny bit) to helping the children get what they need.
      People know that adoptions are expensive, and that 3 elementary aged kids must be a lot. I think 529 donations are perfectly nice to ask for, explain it as you did here, just the “missing out on compound earnings”. Tell one coworker and have her spread the word.

    14. As a non-parent, I would be happy to contribute to your kids’ future education. Honestly, I’d prefer that to guessing at what things your kids might want and don’t already have. As long as you word things to be clear that you’re not expecting anything and are just happy to celebrate with everyone, I’d be happy to contribute. Congratulations!

    15. I totally get this and I would absolutely be happy to contribute to a 529. But I know there is some pearl clutchers out there who would ‘t agree.
      Can you make a registry and have it as one of the items? I know in Amazon, you can just list things or ideas on your registry without providing a link. I personally don’ think this is any different from a honeymoon or experience registry.
      Congratulations!

      1. The only clutching of pearls here is that it’s a work shower, so asking for money risks people feeling like “oh what if the normal $20 I would have spent on a set of onesies looks pathetic vs. what other people give” etc.

        I think a 529 contribution is a GREAT idea, but I’d suggest to your colleague that someone collect all the money so you just see the “lump sum” rather than individual gifts.

        2. The work aspect makes it gross; you shouldn’t be hitting up your coworkers for cash.

          I also think the OP is wildly underestimating how much she will need for three kids. I listed many items above that she’s certainly not thinking about (beach towels, life jackets, coats, summer gear, boots, sneakers in various sizes).

        3. When I had work showers, there was a collection of money to buy things off my registry and I received a list of people who contributed without knowing how much they gave. A joint 529 contribution in a lump sum is a great idea.

        4. Yes, this. It’s the work setting that makes the 529 ask feel a bit … fraught. Congratulations, OP!

        5. Thank you for showcasing this perspective. Agree totally, the work aspect is super important.

          Love the book idea – maybe ask if people have some preloved, great books to build the future kids’ library?

    16. I think asking for 529 contributions is totally fine.

      Alternatively , maybe gift cards so the kids can pick out somethings for themselves?

      1. That’s a great idea! I bet they would like to pick out something new for themselves if they have been in foster card, etc.

    17. If these kids are elementary age they have personalities and aren’t going to be happy with just hand me downs. Wait until you know the kids and know what they want and then you can ask for specific books, toys, clothes, etc. that meet their interests. I give cash for weddings regularly but would be really taken aback at being asked to contribute cash for a coworker’s child.

    18. Asking for gift cards on the registry would be more conventional and logistically easier, and you will absolutely use them. I also think for a work shower most people aren’t spending enough to make a meaningful dent in the 529s so it’s not worth doing something that seems tacky to at least some. Consider asking for clothes and stuff for being active in different seasons: swimsuit, water shoes, beach towels, winter jacket, snow pants, sleds, soccer ball, puzzles, gardening tools, baking set and decorations, night lights which a lot of kids like in anew house even if they are older, chalk, jump ropes, Legos, fiction and kids reference books, sleeping bags, bedding, bath toys, stuffed animals, sneakers, sandals, rain boots, snow boots …

    19. No, you can’t really ask people to contribute to a 529. *Maybe* your very closest family members (like parents/siblings) if they are so inclined, but not your co-workers.

    20. How wonderful, congratulations!

      I don’t have kids, so I wouldn’t know what to buy for them and would be very happy to contribute to a 529 in this situation for a work colleague. In the alternative, if you told me which gift cards would be most helpful, I would be happy to do that as well.

    21. I would have said absolutely not but I think that you’re adopting 3 elementary aged kids changes it. Know your state limits on 529 contributions ($4k per kid? $10k total?) and make it easy for gift-givers like a go fund me or something.

    22. How about sports/activity stuff? Or fees for those things? My kids in elem are drowning in balls, cleats, racquets, nets, shin guards, leotards, etc and that stuff isn’t cheap.

    23. You can use the website ugift to allow people to send contributions. I have my own biological tiny humans who aren’t even that old and we are already begging people STOP SENDING CLOTHES AND TOYS. I would be surprised, I suppose, if there were people who felt strongly that they HAD to give you something for a shower and were ALSO offended that you were asking just for these types of gifts. (They will probably give you something unsolicited if they’re that intent on it, and then you just need to hope they send a gift receipt.)

      For people who think asking for cash is a faux pas, you do you, but you aren’t arranging this shower and you weren’t asking for gifts in the first place, so maybe they can dial it back.

    24. I would happily contribute to a 529 if I was friend or coworker in this situation. But it’s somewhat tricky because it’s just work colleagues but if they ask for ideas, you could list specific things (car-seat/booster seats) but add that 529 contributions would be welcome because of the short time-horizon for saving for college.

    25. I would happily contribute to a fund for a colleague in this situation.

  8. Light Friday question, anyone know anything about Tabor Academy? I just found out that my young cousin (I’m close with his mom) wants to apply there for boarding school. Apparently he wants to do underwater robotics/submersibles one day and they are right on the ocean with all kinds of classes and activities available. I took a look at the website and I think it looks so cool, but I don’t know much about really any of the smaller New England boarding schools. I’m curious what the experience would be like for a student in this day and age. I’m confident my second cousin would excel there, but he would anywhere – he’s really just a great, smart, and confident kid.

    1. I have no idea, other than in the 80s (so caveat: lots of coke for this crowd), my BFF from first grade went there and got kicked out. And went to another boarding school next (so the sort that takes kids kicked out from elsewhere). THAT second school is aparently really stellar academically now, so Tabor is probably much better still.

      So this is of no help, but maybe a good story and things to be aware of in that crowd. Key thing: they may have summer programs, often less choosy and more accessable and less $ than going for the full year. If relative doesn’t get it, or the $$$ is just too much, summer can be a great option (I was a camp counselor one summer and it was really eye opening in all sorts of ways). IIRC, these schools are about 70K/year now, so as expensive as college.

    2. What’s the question? Tabor has an amazing reputation and the students I’ve met from there are all really good people. It will help him immensely in hyper-competitive college admissions, and will give him outstanding skills to succeed once he’s in college.

    3. Grew up in MA, was a public school student but fairly well versed in the prep school scene since I had a number of very close friends who went to the classics (Groton, St. George’s, Exeter, Middlesex, etc.). Tabor had a fantastic sailing team and a very wealthy but otherwise underwhelming student body. It was definitely not an academic powerhouse in the mid to late 00s. I seem to have a recollection that it was the landing place for people who had been kicked out from other prep schools. Maybe it’s changed since then…

      1. As a parent of a kid in the private school scene I think this is still pretty accurate – it’s a solid school but kind of a ‘safety’ school in the prep school space, definitely good, but not as prestigious as the big names. Not sure what their current pricing is but I’d struggle to pay what I’d guess is in the $65k plus range for what you can likely get at a good local private school or public school plus $$ for tutoring, intensive summer and break programs plus a college counselor. These schools DO offer excellent college coaching so that’s something to keep in mind too.

        1. I think he’s not so concerned about prestige – he wants the ocean-related programming more than anything. It does look great for that!

          1. The only wariness I would have is that all of the above describes a place where the student body does not value academics. As someone who was inherently interested in my classes and what I was learning, that would have been a really difficult environment for me in my high school years.

      2. Not from MA but I went to a top private college and had classmates from a lot of New England prep schools (Philips, Choate, Exeter were the big ones) and I’ve never heard of Tabor.

        1. +1. Harvard grad, lots of friends and classmates from top prep schools, never heard of Tabor.

  9. Need some help / perspective on a situation with my MIL. She retired a few years ago and moved a 5 hour drive away from us (used to be a flight away). At the time, we suggested moving closer to us, but she was set on retiring in a particular location where she had happy memories of vacationing as a kid, even though she currently has no family/friends in the area. All of DH’s grandparents passed away when he was young, so he has no memories of seeing their physical decline, but I’ve been involved as a caregiver for all four of my still living grandparents and was slightly apprehensive about MILs lack of plan and physical distance.

    Fast forward a few years, MIL is now in her late 70s and still very active, but increasingly set in her routines and habits and refuses to do anything out of the ordinary, and then complains she’s lonely. As an example, her brother is being honored in a big way in a city that is midway between us. Our family is driving the 3 hours to be there, two other sets of aunts/uncles/cousins are driving 4 hours to be there but MIL won’t make the 2 hour drive. She says her back hurts on long car trips and she doesn’t want to leave her dog at home.

    Same thing is coming up about the holidays – we’re driving to her for a week at Thanksgiving (loading up 3 kids for a holiday weekend 5 hour drive is no joke) but have been pretty clear that we’re not going to be able to do it again at Christmas and if she wants to celebrate with us, she’s going to have to make her way to our town.

    DH is hearing about it nonstop. She’s lonely, she can’t believe she’s going to have to spend Christmas alone, etc etc etc. It’s total emotional manipulation making him feel like he’s abandoning her when she chose to move 5 hours away!

    We’ve got two big jobs, three kids with lives of their own who are increasingly pursuing competitive sports with demanding schedules, and the idea that it’s somehow our obligation to make a 10 hour round trip trek to see her every other month is completely unrealistic. How do I help DH wrap his head around this and what’s the right way to approach it? It’s frustrating that she seems to expect backflips from everyone else to accommodate her choices but she’s unwilling to make any compromise herself.

    Just in case someone feels like I’m being totally heartless about little old grandma – We visit for at least a week over the summer and a week over the winter. We’ll stop in for a few days bookending a multi family ski trip that takes us about an hour away from her house. DH usually takes the older kids for at least two other quick weekend visits around sports travel schedules that bring them to the area. I feel like we make a ton of effort, she views it as insufficient, but makes no effort of her own!

    1. Oh, hi, it seems that we are in the same family? The roads go both ways and YOU (relatives, not you as in the OP) can drive on them, too.

    2. How much would it cost to hire a driver? Does she have the resources to pay for that? Do you? This will only develop/get worse as she gets older, so try to think ahead a bit. You are very good to her as it is, but her neediness is frustrating and self created. Maybe bringing up her moving is a good idea. good luck!

      1. I would strongly encourage her to move closer to you or one of your husbands siblings.

        Understanding that she probably doesn’t want to give up her dream retirement location: Would a family (shared with MIL, your husband and his siblings) condo in MILs current location be an option? Maybe MIL downsizes when she moves closer to family and then her current place is kept as a family vacation space?

      2. We could swing a driver once or twice a year, the problem is the volume of visits she expects. I think she really thinks that we should all be getting together at least once a month to 6 weeks, but doesnt want to inconvenience herself at all to make it happen. She also blames the driving but it isn’t like she’s a nervous driver – she doesn’t want to be in the car for 5 hours as a passenger or driver.

        1. I agree with you completely, BUT…. FYI – I am only in my 50’s and I can’t drive 5 hours safely and comfortably on my own anymore. There is no way my parents in their late 70’s could tolerate that, just with normal aging related slowing of reaction time, fatigue, arthritis etc… The small things add up when you drive for more than 2 hours when you get older, for most people. They really do.

          But I still think you are doing an incredibly job with your big family visiting her way more than I would (!), are absolutely right, and honestly you should let your husband deal with it. It is her choice to live where she is, reasonable to start preparing her now that at some point she will need to move closer or will need to age alone (are there even assisted living/nursing facilities there?). I can’t believe your husband drives your kids there occasionally for weekend visits. Just… no way I would have done that as a kid or a parent!

          1. Really?? I know everyone is different but couldn’t you pull over and take a break? I’m in my 50s and have no issues with a 5 hour drive. My parents are in their 70s and do 10+ hour drives all the time.

          2. Yeah my 70-something parents live eight hours away and come to our city once a month for 1-2 weeks at a time, doing the drive in one day each time. I also don’t find it that weird that a dad would drive his kids five hours each way to see his mom occasionally. Unless the kids are infants or very young toddlers, five hours in the car with kids really isn’t that challenging (yes I have kids).

    3. How many other kids are there? Sounds like there are 3 total and you all live in driving distance? I would just start trading off – you do TG, kid 2 does Xmas, kid 3 drives for TG the following year, you drive for Xmas that year…

      Uber or Lyft do these kinds of drives, too, probably for a few hundred $$.

      (I totally agree this is madness caused by MIL, FWIW.)

      1. Sorry that was not clear – the other families referenced are MILs siblings (she is one of 3). DH is an only child.

    4. I would let the ceremony with her brother go. It’s not your place to be offended and if she doesn’t want to go, she doesn’t have to go. I definitely don’t think it’s unreasonable that you will only visit for one of Thanksgiving and Christmas but I think offering to hire a car for her would be nice, assuming it’s not a financial hardship for you.

    5. I’m a bit of a jerk when people try to manipulate me emotionally, so my response would be a very bland, if not almost cheerful, “Mom/MIL, that’s why we asked you to move to our city” when she complains about not seeing you all on Christmas. Importantly, do not explain anything about your big jobs and the challenges of raising three kids. In fantasy world, you can wave a magic wand and make it all work out; you’re just choosing not to.

      The advantage of the language I use is that as she gets older and less able to care for herself, you’re going to need to talk about moving her closer to her children. When that time comes, it cannot be the first time she’s heard “this is why you need to move closer.”

      My mother also has her head in the clouds. She had me at 21, which has a lot of disadvantages – she’s horrible with money and, given the longevity in our family, she’ll be ramming her hand into my pockets until I’m in my 70s – but the advantage is that I’m old enough to not care about the emotional manipulation while she’s young enough to be somewhat amenable to course corrections.

      The best thing you can ever do is to understand that the backflips are expected because people engage in backflips for her, and if they don’t, they are all wound up emotionally and upset. Keep rational, keep cool, do not engage emotionally.

      1. oooh I was trying to put my finger on the way we are managing our own IL’s expectations and this is so right. We don’t reward hints or tantrums with a visit. We say “sorry, we can’t get away that weekend, we’re looking forward to seeing you at TG!” and change the subject.

        Now that I see DH is an only child, I heartily co-sign the prepping of the “you need to move to us” convo.

        1. +1 – we don’t reward tantrums. Keep strong OP, you are doing so much more than I would tolerate.

      2. YES! I didn’t do this and when my parents finally moved to be near me, it was because their whole life completely fell apart (my dad collapsed, was taken to the hospital, and never saw his home again because he was in for months and the house had to be sold during that time) and they hadn’t had a plan. They were miserable and rebellious for years over it but it was their own fault because they hadn’t made a plan for when they could no longer live on their own.

        True story: They told me “we plan to be carried out of here feet first” so they didn’t need a plan beyond that. Well, they were in fact carried out feet first but the only problem was, they were still alive when it happened!!

        1. This is Anon at 10:50. My mother has a host of challenges – the magical thinking all the way, and the complete inability to do declasse things like budget, save for retirement, or not spend every red cent she has. She also has a huge amount of pride, which results in her cattle-prodding her gift horses and refusing to get a real job.

          She makes a lot of snide comments about the way my family lives. She sees the small, cramped place, the old furniture, and the old cars; she is beyond clueless about the money socked away in retirement accounts, 529s for kiddo’s college, and the healthy amount in savings accounts. If I tell her that, her eyes will light up and she will concoct ways to manipulate me into getting her grubby fingers on our money.

          She “owns her own company,” which doesn’t make enough to keep the cat in tuna fish. I wish to hell she would swallow her pride and get a real job, with health insurance and a 401k match, but she doesn’t want to admit that her “tech company” is failing even though everyone knows it. When you’re putting up on Facebook that the mechanic is holding your car hostage until you can pay for repairs, no one thinks you’re quietly sitting on a pile of money like Smaug the dragon.

          I’m trying to figure out the best way to stage an intervention, and want to do it while she’s still of working age and can maybe pull out of this tailspin.

          1. Oof! I feel for you, Anon! At least my parents had (close to) enough money for a decent assisted living place (my dad is going to run out in a year or two but I’ll jump off that bridge when I get to it). Feel free to use my story as a cautionary tale — the bottom line is “if you don’t make plans, you are in fact making a plan to have your daughter spend down all your assets and then place you in a sh!thole facility covered by the state. Is that what you want?”

    6. I would start putting it in DH’s head that she’s going to need to move closer to you soon as this becomes more of an issue as she ages.

    7. Can you talk about moving her closer to family? Not just because she is lonely for the holidays, but in anticipation for the future when she will need more care.

    8. My in-laws are in their late 70s and very active but they would not be able to manage a drive that far, especially not a drive alone.

      I’d guess that she is too proud/embarrassed/frightened of the aging process to admit that this is the reason.

      Can you find a way to bring her to you that doesn’t involve her driving?

    9. Is there a train? I got my complaining father used to taking the train to about 45 minutes from me, and then I picked him up. He ended up liking the train because there were people to talk to, or he could read or sleep.

    10. OP, my FIL mysteriously stopped being willing to drive to see us several years ago, and it took us far too long to figure out it was because he had macular degeneration, was going blind, and really should not be driving at all. So I would just encourage you to dig a little deeper to be sure there isn’t an underlying health issue and that she is safe doing the things she is still doing. Beyond that, my general perspective is: what if this is the best she can do now? How would you adapt? You seem focused on what is fair, but at a certain point, I think with elders it is not about that and more about meeting their needs as best you can.

      1. Yes, this. It seems pretty clear that she’s just not physically capable of driving or even regularly traveling long distances anymore and will probably need more care sooner rather than later. She might not be willing to admit this yet, but I think you need to figure out how to talk about it.

        1. Eh, just based on her age she statistically is likely to need care relatively soon. But I would not equate unwillingness to travel with inability to travel. My dad is 71 and refusing to travel because he’s just decided he doesn’t like it anymore. There’s no indication he will need assisted living any time soon. Older people get cranky and have a lower tolerance for minor unpleasantness and discomfort than younger people do, so you often see big attitude shifts about things like traveling before you see an actual inability to do it or need for assistance.

          1. How can you tell though? Driving is so much more demanding than daily life. There is a massive spectrum of ability between “ability to drive” and “need for assisted living.”

      2. I struggle with the tension that she’s an adult and gets to make her own choices, but doesn’t get to whine and guilt DH about the completely foreseeable and natural consequences of her choices. So she is well within her rights to want to live in vacationland! I totally understand the desire even though I don’t find it practical! But the trade offs are seeing us less frequently and having to deal with logistics for visits. She can’t have her cake and demand to eat it too.

        I also think that there are a lot of places where we compromise and make accommodations, but meeting her needs within the incredibly narrow parameters she’s put in place, starts to necessarily feel like we’re not as focused on meeting our kids and our family’s needs.

        1. You say “vacationland” and then mentioned that it’s an hour from a ski resort. I’m trying to think of areas that applies to, and I’m coming up with Maine (way up beyond Portland), New Hampshire (Loon area), Vermont, West Virginia, or somewhere out West. I can’t speak to the latter; however, the former are all inexpensive places to live with just terrible access to medical care and other social services as she ages.

          If you and DH haven’t already, you need to have a talk with her about her resources, her plans, her estate plan, any health care proxies/DPOAs she has in place, etc. Get hard numbers for what she has available. Talk about the long term plan. If you haven’t already, have her speak to an elder law specialist who can discuss her legal and financial needs moving forward.

          1. There are cities in Maine outside of Portland, lol. My grandparents lived in the Ellsworth ME area (not far from Bar Harbor/Acadia) until they passed. It was fine. There is a hospital in Ellsworth and a bigger, better equipped hospital in Bangor (half an hour away) and plenty of other social services, including Meals on Wheels, retirement homes and nursing homes. I’m sure Vermont, New Hampshire and West Virginia have hospitals and services for seniors outside their state capitals too. Yes, if you have a rare cancer you may need to go to Mayo or MD Anderson or someplace like that for treatment. But the vast majority of people don’t retire near a “top” hospital and survive just fine.

          2. Anon at 2:56, I’m two hours outside of anything resembling a big city, so please stop acting like I’m some snobby twit who is in need of your ‘splaining on how the non-city world works.

            The problem is that you might be too far from a hospital in an emergency, or you might do a lot better with a specialist. If you have, for example, colon cancer, you want a doctor who performs colorectomies several times a week, not someone who is a generalist. Good luck getting your insurance to pay for a trip to MD Anderson, or even Beth Israel, because you want a specialist.

            The differences are dramatic. Specialists in high-risk surgeries tend to have rates of death and severe complications that are about one-third the national average. Smaller hospitals lack the sophisticated equipment of larger hospitals; it’s not cost-effective. Your quality of care is more erratic. It can be hard for rural medicine to fully staff up, let alone staff up with great doctors.

          3. Here’s some light reading. Sure, it’s academic studies and doesn’t compare to your childhood knowledge of your grandparents’ lives, but give ’em a read anyway:

            Distance to nearest hospital is major factor in survival of heart attack victims, Cornell study shows
            https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2004/02/distance-hospital-affects-heart-attack-survival

            The relationship between distance to hospital and patient mortality in emergencies: an observational study
            https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2464671/

            Distance to Hospital Correlates with Mortality in Sickest Patients
            https://www.jwatch.org/em200710180000004/2007/10/18/distance-hospital-correlates-with-mortality
            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17711952/

          4. My grandparents died when I was in my mid-late 20s. I was not a child and due to a disability on the part of their child (my parent), I was the one who was primarily responsible for their health management and end of life care including being in the local hospitals with them many times. But your snarky response was really kind, you sound like a super nice person.

            All three studies you cited boil down to one point, which is that distance from a hospital is correlated with better outcomes, which I was aware of. My grandparents lived maybe within 10 miles of a hospital…and this a town with less than 10,000 people that basically no one who lives outside the state has heard of.

            I was just reacting to your direct quote that Maine (and Vermont, New Hampshire and West Virginia) are “all inexpensive places to live with just terrible access to medical care and other social services as she ages.” That is just not true. There are plenty of places to live in Maine and I’m sure in those other states that are not major cities but are still near perfectly fine hospitals and do not have “terrible” access to healthcare.

        2. OP, I understand your frustration on this, and I think I essentially agree with you that she either needs to move closer to you or come up with a better support structure in her current location, but I think you’re still thinking of it as her just refusing to put in the work to come see you, but I think that’s just not a reasonable expectation. She’s aging and dealing with the physical and mental changes that are hard to adjust to and hard to admit to (I have a chronic illness that makes travel difficult, which makes me a little sympathetic to this- it’s hard to talk about with people, especially as it’s not consistent from day to day and hard to explain how the different symptoms affect me). You need to have an actual conversation about aging and how she plans to deal with this, not just keep worrying about travel plans, which I think are covering up the real issues here. I don’t necessarily think she needs to move into assisted living right now, but if she wants to stay in her town, she needs some sort of social support besides your family and a plan for the future.

        3. So all you can do is set a boundary – Mom, I’m sorry you’re lonely. That sounds really hard, we’d love to see you more but we can’t drive X hours every month. Can we talk about you moving to our city so we can have more time together?” If she says no, then you say “it’s your choice, but then you have to understand we can only get together 3 times a year” and if she keeps going say “let’s change the subject or it’s time to hang up.”
          Note – if you actually get her to move closer to you, she’s going to want to see your family like every day, so the emotional appeals and boundary setting needs will be even more profound.

    11. If she’s uncomfortable driving then I think you have to take that at face value. It’s really dangerous for people to be on the road who shouldn’t be. She might not be ready to admit it to you or herself, but I would guess that this isn’t about her back hurting or whatever excuse she’s giving you. Please don’t pressure someone to operate a vehicle, especially on an interstate, if they feel they are no longer a competent driver.

      Fwiw my mom is the same age and has been slowly pushing back on driving over the past decade or so. At first it was her night vision. Then it was aches and pains and bladder issues. Then one time she had to take a different route to visit me (because of construction) and she had a meltdown in the car. She’s now far too timid a driver to get on even a local highway, she is too timid to merge properly or drive at the speed of traffic. If she makes a wrong turn she gets super anxious and emotional. It’s not safe for her or anyone else. And I’m only 1.5 hours away from her, I definitely would not let her drive 5 hours by herself. If I need her to come to me then I either find a ride for her or I pay a driver.

      1. This. My mom is 66, so at least a decade younger than your MIL, and is objectively not a great driver. She’s so fearful that she’s a danger to herself and others. She is no longer making the 50-minute interstate drive between her house and mine, always with an excuse. My dad does all interstate driving now. She’s fine on the deserted country roads and highways, but city driving freaks her out.

      2. +1. Honestly, a five hour drive is long when you are alone. Even I, as a 38 year old, would not be super excited about a five hour solo drive.

        For this Christmas, I second (third? fourth?) the advice about looking into alternate ways to get her to you, such as hiring a driver or taking the train, if there is one. Longer term, I think it would make sense for your husband to have a serious talk with her about moving closer to your family, especially given that he is an only child.

    12. Perhaps while you are visiting at Thanksgiving, OP’s husband and OP could have a conversation with MIL: “you seem dissatisfied with the amount of time we spend together and have complained that you don’t want to spend Christmas alone. We would love to have you visit us at Christmas; please come and join in the festivities. Moving forward after that, let’s set up a schedule where we alternate visits, maybe every 6 weeks or so. We don’t have to set the dates now, just the understanding that we will take turns, because it is too hard for one person to do the traveling all the time. We are here in November, so the next visit will be yours. Do you want to come for Christmas, or would you rather wait until January?” Then stick to it. If MIF doesn’t make her visit, just repeat, “oh, this visit is your turn.” It won’t work forever, but it should set a plan for now.

    13. The emotional manipulation sounds very annoying, but I concur with the other posters that at her age, it would not be unusual to not be able to handle the drive well, either as a driver or as a passenger. Your DH and MIL need to start having serious conversations NOW about what life looks like moving forward, as it sounds like you’re doing as much as you can manage from afar.

  10. What shoes do people wear in the winter when it’s cold but not wet and you’re going for a casual-ish but put together vibe (ie. not sneakers)? What style pants do you wear with those shoes? I honestly think some of the reason I go out less in the winter is because I don’t know what shoes to wear. In the summer I wear cute sandals with everything. What’s the winter equivalent? Specific suggestions would be amazing.

    1. Low wedge booties with fleece or faux fur inside (cuffed skinnies). Cole Haan often has a cute pair on offer.
      This year, the “combat boots” style a la Dr Martens is getting more popular.
      Suede knee-high boots over black leggings or black skinnies. (Brown leather over blue skinnies feels very 2010.)

      1. Yep, combat boots! I wear them with straight slightly cropped pants so most of the boot shows. I also plan to wear them with warm dresses and fleece tights.

        Of course, I live in the DC area, where, as discussed above, people aren’t super-stylish and don’t care so much what other people wear.

        I was watching some old episodes of Beverly Hills 90210 and that was one good thing about 1990s style – party dresses + combat boots/Docs. Party on the top, comfort on the bottom!

      2. Here’s what I don’t get about the combat boots trend. 1) It reminds me of high school, so no thank you. 2) It seems to be a VERY specific style. Like combat boots with my classic sweaters are going to look dumb and out of place. A Blundstone is about as far as I could go, I think.

        1. I disagree! I saw a woman with black straight leg pants, a white button down, and combat boots. She looked conservative and great!

    2. You don’t go out in winter because you’re not sure if your shoes are fashionable? I don’t get this.

      1. +1 for Chelsea boots. I wait all year to wear mine. I love the mod look. I can’t shake the skinhead association with Doc Martens.

    7. This year, lug-sole chelsea boots (there are some at Madewell or Caslon at Nordstrom) with skinny jeans or cuffed boyfriend/straightlegged jeans (or tights and a casual dress if that’s your vibe). Or Doc Martens — they are notorious for being hard to break in but I got some faux fur lined ones last year and they are SO warm and comfy.

      1. I looked up lug sole Chelsea boots and they’re Frankenstein shoes, for anyone wondering. I don’t necessarily mean that in a bad way.

    10. Blundstones. For years and years all winter long in Ottawa. Dresses, jeans, whatever. I have a pretty country-attire look.

    11. For a place with a lot of very smart women, the collective inability to figure out shoes really baffles me. You seriously don’t go out because you can’t figure out what shoes to wear??

    12. If you don’t want to go full combat boots, there are a lot of great lug sole loafers and oxfords out this year that look really fresh and fun.

      1. I ordered a pair of black lug sole loafers with a heel that arrived today, and I will be wearing these this fall and winter. A lot!

    13. I bought and LOVE a waterproof boot last year with a low heel. Comfortable, They handled my day to day life, not strenuous hiking in Denver, running through airports in Philly, and walking in Iowa.

      The boot is the Teva Anaya boot.

      I wore them with jeans often – like a slim jean, not jegging, but not quite straight bottom Jean. I wouldn’t wear with black pants due to color Matching. They were $150 and worth every penny.

    14. I got the UGG Kesey boots last year and they are the best. Super comfy, survived the salt and daily hikes, and go with literally everything (skinny, bootcut, wide leg, dresses). I ordered a half size up. My feel have a wide forefoot and a skinny shallow heel, so I needed to size up to accommodate the width but it’s still fully comfortable.

  11. Legwear Q.

    I have some midi dresses that I’d wear with something like Swedish Hasbeens casualy or flats in the warmer months. Now that it is cooler, I can wear with boots, but my legs get cold, so I’d usually wear tights. I only have black tights. If they are hidden by my boots (black or brown) and my longer dress (often NOT black for once), would tight color matter? This is where I miss pantyhose. Tan? Brown? Just wear what I have since no one will likely see?

    3. I always do black with any color combo of dresses and brown boots. I like the look with the black to be honest.

  12. Hit me with your favorite most romantic movies or tv shows/episodes that end happily! I want to just curl up on my couch this weekend and binge watch people falling in love and all that happily ever after stuff. With smart characters, of any orientation. A good grovel scene or public declaration of love is also a plus. I realize this is a very subjective thing, but would love to hear all the suggestions!
    Some of my favorites:
    All the Jane Austen movies
    While You Were Sleeping
    Superstore
    Truly Madly Deeply
    Roman Holiday (except the ending…)
    An Affair to Remember
    Parenthood (the tv series)
    Catastrophe
    Love Actually
    Ever After

    2. The Notebook
      Working Girl
      Sleepless in Seattle
      The mid 90s BBC Pride and Prejudice – far superior to the Keira version, sorry not sorry

    4. An Officer and a Gentleman, When Harry Met Sally, Pretty Woman, Sleepless in Seattle, Four Weddings and a Funeral, Notting Hill, Never Been Kissed, Miss Congeniality, Sweet Home Alabama, Two Weeks Notice (I think this one is SO underrated but fair warning there’s a brief cameo by the 45th president), Music and Lyrics, The Proposal, Did You Hear about the Morgans?, It’s Complicated, The Rewrite, Book Club. I think Hugh Grant is in literally half of these, lol.

    5. Notting Hill. “I’m just a girl, standing in front of a boy, asking him to love her.” Gets me every time.

    8. TV series to binge: Bridgerton, “Crash Into You” (Korean, haven’t watched it yet but it’s big in romancelandia) – I loved The Nanny back in the day if you can find it, and I know people loved Once Upon a Time because of one of the romances (Captain Hook I think).

      Favorite romantic comedies:
      Black & white: His Girl Friday, Bringing Up Baby, It Happened One Night, Desk Set,
      Old but in color (1960ish-2005ish): How to Steal a Million, What’s Up Doc, Soapdish, Kissing Jessica Stein, Groundhog Day, Grosse Pointe Blank, Working Girl, Down with Love, French Kiss
      more modern: Big Sick, Stupid Crazy Love (lots of good Disney movies here – Tangled, Frozen, etc)
      teen movies: Bring it On, 10 Things I Hate About You, Bend it Like Beckham
      action romance: Speed, Matrix, The Princess Bride (I’m sure there are other major big ones)

      Moodier but lovely: Amelie, Dear Frankie, Before Sunrise

      OH! And Room With a View. Must see if you have not.

    16. The Philadelphia Story with Katherine Hepburn, Cary Grant, and Jimmy Stewart

      One of the greatest movies ever made

    17. Philadelphia Story
      His Girl Friday
      It happened one night
      My best friend’s girl
      A touch of pink
      Balls (German gay romcom)

  13. I may have missed this for a while, but RFK Jr. is apparently a totally antivax crackpot? Not sure how this came about, but wow.

    2. He has been openly anti-vax for a very long time, it long predates Covid. Wikipedia describes him as a “American environmental lawyer, author, and anti-vaccine advocate.” I don’t know how it came about. I feel like a lot of prominent anti-vax people (Jenny McCarthy, Robert DeNiro, etc) have a child with autism and have latched onto the anti-vax movement as an explanation for the cause of their child’s autism, which I can understand on an emotional level even if it’s not rational or based in science. But to my knowledge RFK Jr does not have an immediate family member with autism.

      1. My understanding is that some environmental lawyers – hardly all or even the majority – peddle junk science in order to get a big fat jury verdict. When that’s your entire career, is it surprising that you aren’t able to figure out what’s actually true and what’s a scam?

    3. I was surprised (and horrified) to learn the majority of disinformation about covid vaccines on social media can be traced back to just a dozen people, and one of them is RFK Jr. This was in an NPR article back in May. Most of these people seemed to have something to gain financially like selling a “natural” cure, but I wasn’t able to figure out what Kennedy has to gain from this. Not that I did any serious investigation. Maybe someone else knows if he has a financial angle here?

      1. I always read this from him as part of a leftist, anti-corporate conspiracy-theorist perspective. Like “they” are all poisoning us for profit, and vaccines, which are given to virtually everyone, are the perfect vehicle for this.

  14. Does anyone have sweatpants they love that have zippered pockets? Uniqlo discontinued the mens’ sweatpants with zippered pockets that I’ve been wearing for years and I can’t find any with zippers anywhere!

    1. Check out Athleta. The Brooklyn joggers have a zippered section and the Trekkie joggers (on backorder) have zips.

  15. Inspired by the post above, has anyone else noticed that the new “casual” dress code seems to apply only to men? All of the men in my office are in jeans and sneakers. The women are wearing the same thing as before, more or less. I’m still not wearing heels but a lot of women are. I thought this was just a peculiarity of my office but the above post made me wonder if others have noticed the same thing.

    2. I think a lot of folks don’t really care about shopping during a pandemic and are just going to wear out what they have. Their next round of purchases will likely hit the dress code.

    3. When I go in, I wear heels (though I’ve been picking my lowest!) because those are the shoes that live at the office, not because I’m trying to make a statement about the dress code.

    4. Women in my office are now wearing golden goose sneakers with long skirts and rufflepuff dresses.

    5. I went into the office for the first time in a long tine yesterday. The dudes were in button down shirts and slacks and myself and our contract analyst were in dresses and heels/dress flats. This is exactly how we all dressed pre-pandemic. In-house at multinational. I dress to make myself feel good and, for me, that just happens to be business casual leaning business and heels.

    6. Opposite in my office! We were 100% suits pre-pandemic, and now men are mostly still wearing suits but women are wearing mostly “I could throw a jacket on top of this if I wanted” with a serious dose of jeans and athleisure. I think this is mostly because we have a male Suits Every Day boss and his Back To Suits edict in September was mostly ignored by the women.

    7. I found exactly the opposite. We had a lunch meeting with firm management this week and ALL of the men were in suits (or slacks and a blazer) and women were in just barely Business casual (so really just casual). I was in Everlane dream pranks, loafers, a t shirt and cardigan and felt like a super shlub.

    8. My office is all casual, except for a couple of people who like their old clothes. No gender differentiation.

  16. We are renovating our kitchen and bathroom in the spring and I need guidance on light fixtures, colors, and general overall feel. Recs for modestly priced decorators in the suburbs of Phila?

    1. Do you need a decorator? I may be biased but I find them to be a lot of cash for not a lot of value add unless you have a big budget.
      I’ve done all of our bathrooms and we’re now planning a kitchen and I’ve only ever done it myself or with the decorator at the tile/cabinet places. The in house design services at RH/Pottery Barn/etc. are very good if you’re not looking for anything crazy. Your taste may vary but I find black and white in bathrooms rarely ages badly, or if you want something less stark, blue and white. I like the paint colors at Farrow and Ball because it’s a curated range, and there are guides with the Sherwin Williams/Behr dupes. Pick your wall color, do a coordinating floor and wall tile (truly, tile stores are great at this). Ferguson has good prices for vanities, and PoshHaus had the best prices I could find on Fairmont designs but they have a lot of brands.

    2. Not sure if this is too far for you, but I’ve heard first-hand rave reviews about Bella Casa Kitchen & Bath in Allentown.

    3. There’s a Main Line Remodeling and Decorating group on Facebook- I’d ask there for specific people. I know Studio 882 (store) has a design service but I’ve never used it.

    4. For tile choices we had a fabulous experience with the DAL tile location at 23 & Chestnut. Not for lighting choices but amazing at translating our Pinterest-speak into a discrete set of choices, vs. wandering the aisles at the Avalon.

    5. Reposting for tr.ns

      For tile choices we had a fabulous experience with the DAL tile location at 23 & Chestnut. Not for lighting choices but amazing at tr.nslating our Pinterest-speak into a discrete set of choices, vs. wandering the aisles at the Avalon.

  17. Talk to me about leaving biglaw. I’m a 6th year corporate associate who has accepted I won’t be making the push for partner because I hate BD. I’ve been TTC for a year to no avail and I’m generally burnt out and a bit depressed. I’ve been approached for an in-house position that seems good – nice team, they said all the right things about work-life balance, manager seems competent, work seems interesting enough. The salary range I discussed with the recruiter seems pretty good and financially I would be fine. It’s not a fortune 500 but it’s a large-ish company with some interesting growth potential and international presence. They seem to be lining up for an offer – I’ve met the entire legal team and am meeting the CFO next week. And suddenly I’m having second thoughts – will I be bored? Will I regret this? I’ve made great friends in biglaw and feel like I would miss the sociable office life, but I could definitely use some free time to have hobbies and see my own friends and family. I definitely feel like I’m giving up a bit as an ambitious person who once thought I would be making partner. I’ve been working so hard for the past 6 years I have trouble imagining anything else. Am I insane? My DH is fully in support of this move, I’m the one having second thoughts.

    1. In-house counsel at a large company is what ambitious, successful people do. The fact that you could make more money as a BigLaw rainmaker doesn’t mean that it’s a career for second-raters. I’m also unclear as to what you think your alternatives are if you reject the idea of going in-house. You’re not going to make partner at your current firm, you might be “of counsel,” and you’ll probably be managed out at some horribly inconvenient time for your family or the economy. Unless your husband can lean way out at work, having kids is not really compatible with BigLaw life. At that point, what do you do?

      I think smart, ambitious people often have this very linear, hierarchical idea of success that is a holdover from high school and university. You do geometry in ninth so that you can do calculus in twelfth, so you can go to the best college you get into, which feeds you into a top law school so you can get into BigLaw. That’s not how careers work. You jump ship when the company is sinking, your crazy toxic boss is making your life hell, when you obviously are not going to move up in your current role, or your compensation is substantially below market. That’s not the same thing as dropping out of college or bombing out on OCI. Careers are a fluid, lifelong process. It’s much more like steering a ship than climbing a ladder.

      1. +1, this is so on point. FWIW, I’m ambitious and highly credentialed, and while I probably could get a job in biglaw (not necessarily as partner, most likely as of counsel) coming out a desirable federal agency, I’m much more interested in in house work. I don’t view it as second rate at all; there’s a reason mid level and senior associates are always jumping ship to in house gigs (and I imagine at least some fraction of those individuals could potentially make partner, but choose not to for whatever reason). For example, I was reading about the outgoing White House staff secretary, who was a former biglaw partner, then jumped to FB, and then to the White House – she is exiting to be GC of Shopify. I’m sure her old biglaw firm would have been thrilled to take her back as partner (or any other elite firm for that matter) but she wanted something different. The path is not so linear and clear, as Anon at 12:13 said.

      2. Love this. I agree 100%. I also think that once you get your first in-house job, it’s the beginning of a potential ladder to a different kind of in-house success. I am equity partner at a law firm and am happy here, but I also think I could have been very challenged and happy doing the in-house route.

    2. I think it’s completely normal to have second thoughts when you change a job. But you hate BD! That is a huge part of being a partner. I had second thoughts when I left biglaw, but I just kept looking at the lives of the partners I worked with and thinking “I don’t want that life” — I want to be able to take vacations without doing hours of work everyday, I want to not have to work on basically every weekends, I want to be able to routinely have dinner with my kids. Once I started focusing on what I was gaining, it was a lot easier for me.

      I’ll be honest that the work for me is a little less interesting, but the work life balance More than makes up for that.

      1. Thanks, both – this was the perspective I needed to hear. I went on vacation this summer and worked non-stop and started job searching when I came home. And I was definitely raised with the linear, climbing the ladder mindset – my dad tells everyone he knows that I will be making partner at a large law firm soon and will do his best to hide his disappointment when I tell him I’m not actually doing that.

        1. I left around the same time – your feelings are totally normal. Things that may happen…

          -you realize you don’t have hobbies like… wait you suddenly have whole evenings and weekends to do stuff? what do people do?
          -you understand who all those people are who can go out for lunch or run an errand during the workday
          -you can actually USE most of your PTO because it’s not like you have to compensate for a vacation by billing double another time
          -you work your way up in your company to be a trusted part of the management team

          OR

          -you hate it and decide you want to go back to Biglaw, in which case congrats, you’ve short-circuited the slog of being a senior associate going through the partnership application process, you’re just… interviewing as a prospective partner

    3. I have found my in house job to be far more stimulating and challenging than BigLaw (but more varied) and my colleagues to be every bit as smart as my BigLaw colleagues, FWIW.

      1. 100% this. I went in-house around 10 years out and I’ve found that the folks I work with in-house are at least as smart as the folks who I use as outside counsel. I think a lot of us Type A’s think very linearly and don’t realize that “moving up in a law firm until you’re a partner” is not everyone’s goal or possible for everyone due to reasons unrelated to skill.

  18. Thinking about springing for a pair of joggers. I know I’m late to the game, but I just started a permanent WFH role and nobody uses their camera, so I’m ready to embrace comfort dressing.

    Is any particular brand and style a clear winner here? I prefer natural fabrics whenever possible.

      1. I love my Zella joggers too. I had to return my first medium pair for a different medium pair that fit totally differently. So maybe try on first or order two and return one that’s oddly fitted.

    3. Vuori. Cute and comfortable. If you are between sizes, go with the smaller size for a cute sleek fit or the larger size for a baggy fit.

  19. Talk to me about Blundstones. I like the ruggedness and overall look, but they also look very heavy. Are they? I just remember getting foot cramps from wearing heavy Doc Martens back in the day, so I’m wary!

    1. I know there are tons of Blundstones fans out there but I hated them. Heavy, incredibly stiff and very difficult to get on and off. I even had the leather stretched at a cobbler and still found them uncomfortable. I ended up buying a pair of Ugg boots that look very similar but are way more comfortable.

    2. I don’t find them heavy at all. And all of my kids wear them without complaint and we all have high arches. They are ludicrously flexible. I wear them with everything and I skew more formal than many of my peers.

    3. I don’t find them particularly heavy, but alas they didn’t work for my foot shape (neither do Danskos?? my feet apparently reject comfort footwear).

    4. I love them and can walk many miles in comfort.
      I do not find them stiff.
      I have thinner ankles making on/off easy.

    5. So I have a 20 year old daughter. She asked for Blundstones in I think her Sophomore year of high school and she’s still wearing them now in her Junior year of college. (Thankfully her feet had stopped growing when we bought them – we weren’t sure at the time). She wore them just about every day the first year we bought them, and now wears them any time it rains heavily or is extra cold here in the Bay Area. So all I can tell you is that they are super sturdy and last forever.

  20. Recommendations for a cleaner / cleaning service for a condo in Lakeview / Lincoln Park, Chicago? Looking for one deep clean, but probably not a lot of maintenance.

    1. Reach out at ducklescorp at g and I’ll send you mine. Husband and wife who I’ve used for 8 years.

  21. Another work/fashion question. I am looking for some new dresses for the once or twice a month I have meetings in person that require workwear. Boden and Talbots have been my goto for a while but I am expanding my search. Apparently FB and Insta know that because I’ve started getting a bunch of ads, some of which have nice dresses, but from brands I have never heard of. Has anyone purchased anything from Carlie Carson? Any other recs for brands I should check out (looking to spend no more than $300, hopefully less)?

    1. No, but look at J. McLaughlin (have to sort through resortwear to find more subdued patterns but the fabric is amazing), on-sale Lafay3tt3 148, Jcrew (sheath styles)?

  22. Planning a girls trip with some old friends, all in our 30s. For reasons that I’m not 100% clear on truthfully, we’re looking at southern California. Any ideas on specific destinations or places to avoid?

    1. San Diego is great. If you want wineries in that general area, try Temecula. I don’t know if this is far enough south to be southern California (maybe central?), but the Santa Ynez valley is amazing and I think it would be super fun for a girls’ trip!

    3. Santa Barbara would be fun. You could do wine tasting in Santa Ynez for a day if you are so inclined.

    4. Santa Monica is pretty great. Stay at Shutters or the Georgian or one of the other fun hotels on or near the beach, do a day at the Getty Villa, eat at all the fabulous restaurants, do a day in shopping Beverly Hills, rent bikes and ride along the beach. My husband and I spent the weekend there last year for his birthday (it was during one of those little times when it looked like COVID was waning) and had a blast.

  23. Talk to me about the best/worst beach areas in the Carolinas for someone who is going on a short trip and isn’t into the party scene anymore. I like kids but will not be bringing any.

      2. Agree, avoid Myrtle–that’s definitely a party destination.

        I’ve heard great things about Kiawah but haven’t been myself. Folly Beach could work too; I’ve never stayed there (my SIL lives in Charleston so we are lucky to have a crash pad with her!) but I’ve gone for the day multiple times and have always enjoyed it. It feels like a good mix of families and options that are a bit more up-tempo than OBX.

        Agree with the poster below that the Outer Banks work for avoiding the party scene, but they’re more time-intensive to get to.

    2. For a short trip I would focus on what is easy to get to fast, which rules out the only ones I know much about, the northern Outer Banks in NC (Duck, Corolla, Kitty Hawk).

  24. Paging Senior Attorney-

    Regarding yesterday’s post, take your own advice and Do The Thing. Make the appointment today!! You can do it.

    I care about my imaginary friends and this is something you need to do for your health.

    2. Aw, this is so nice! I will get on it!

      And yes — my friends. I had a Corporet*t*e table at my wedding!

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