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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 155 Comments · by

Coffee Break: The Bentley

Coffee Break |

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Rebecca Minkoff Bentley | CorporetteOooh: I liked these shoes and was going to link to the stores that still have them at full price ($275), like CUSP… but then I realized that both 6pm and Amazon have them on sale! I love the mixed textures here, the walkable heel, the pointier almond toe, and the suede straps on the vamp. Lovely. They're $137.50-$145 at Amazon and 6pm. Rebecca Minkoff Bentley Psst: Prefer flats? Here's a similar shoe from Stuart Weitzman.

Sales of note for 9.30.24

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. recommendations for getting to SFO?

    The family and I need to get to SFO from South Bay with several suitcases. Any suggestions on relatively affordable options (i.e., cheaper than a taxi) to get to SFO?

    Caltrain would be the best, but the amount of luggage makes it inconvenient. Also looked into Super Shuttle, which has sub-par reviews on the Peninsula. TIA, ladies!

    • Anon

      Ask a friend with a mini-van or SUV to drive you, and take them to dinner when you get back to say thanks?

      • MJ

        Uber. Super Shuttle on the peninsula is awful. I’ve had rides from SFO to Menlo Park/Palo Alto that have taken up to three hours. Torture.

        Note that if you do Caltrain, you have to Caltrain to Bart, and buy separate tickets for each, and haul all your stuff from platform to platform at Millbrae…it adds up and is not much cheaper than a car service.

    • CA Admin

      Try UberX–it’s cheaper than a taxi and they have the UberXL option, which is an SUV. I don’t do taxis in the Bay Area anymore because they’re expensive and terrible.

    • Maddie Ross

      while people are thinking about this area of the country, what about the reverse? easiest way to get from SFO to downtown san fran?

      • Anon

        BART…get on at the air port, change in San Bruno..get off at Embarcadero. I have done this. It is very convinient

        • anon

          I take Uber – you can also fare split if you get someone else at the airport going into SF

        • anonsg

          With some trains (and times) you don’t have to transfer.

          Take the AirTrain at SFO to the Garage/BART station, then get on the BART toward San Francisco/Pittsburg/Bay Point and you shouldn’t have to transfer. It’ll take you through all the stops in downtown SF.

  2. Daydreamer

    Do you think Corporette has made you more or less fashionable? More or less judgey? Discuss.

    I think it has made me more appreciative of women who I can see put in effort, even if I don’t love their outfit, and it’s made me more likely to draw inspiration from women I see around the city.

    • A Nonny Moose

      Not really what you asked but: this site has made me more professional in general and given me perspectives and information on so many random topics (work related and not). It’s slightly embarrassing how often I start sentences with DH with “a discussion on thissite was talking about…”

      Reading CHS made me super judgy. I stopped reading it as often and I found myself being much less critical of others’ outfits– a bad habit I used to have.

      • Baconpancakes

        Agreed on the increasing of professionalism – I feel like this community has made me more professional in a lot of things, starting with clothing, and branching to how I handle conflict, how I comport myself at office functions, and how much handholding I expect from managers and mentors (ie less). I roll my eyes a lot at CHS, but still read it for the great outfits. (eg this morning, I bristled a little and said to myself “I’m sure as shootin going to wear burgundy with black!” but I love the affordable dress she picked.)

      • Ellen

        I agree with Ms. Moose. It is great to find other real smart women to share idea’s and little secrets about our boyfreinds. I also REALY love the fashon advise from Kat And Kate! Yay!

        Now if the HIVE could only help me get rid of the manageing partners’ brother! Doubel FOOEY!

    • tesyaa

      It hasn’t made me more or less fashionable or more or less judgy, but it has definitely led me to spend more, which I think its advertisers would applaud.

      • Alana

        Same about spending more, despite a business casual workplace that is behind-the-scenes.

        Judgy about fashion? Not really b/c I love to see crazy outfits, and bad fashion makes me appreciate good fashion. Judgy about differences in priorities? Yes.

        Coming from a laid-back, creative environment, I realize how different I am from a “typical” corporette. Reading this site has caused me to wonder a bit more about the health and well-being of type-A personalities who get worked up over minor issues. To be frank, sometimes I wonder if these folks have ever experienced a major setback or disappointment in life, and if so, how they handled it. It also provides a reminder that money does not buy happiness.

        I am also sad to see how many people feel less-than because their body is not the cultural ideal and freak out over gaining 5 pounds or do not celebrate the parts of them that are “ideal.” It seems that this perfectionist standard also applies to bodies and it is clear that some commenters have or had eating disorders, if not disordered eating or narrow ideas as to what is an acceptable body. I also worry about the body image of their daughters.

        As someone who grew up middle-class, it is an insight to the lives of people who grew up with more money and have different expectations of life, such as it not being worthwhile to work at all while a high school student, including summers, or expectations of pricey gifts for life events.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      It has made me much more aware of casual sexism and racism or other things that I were completely oblivious to before I saw them discussed here. It (jokingly) drives my husband nuts because he will say “ugh, you used to laugh at that with me before you started reading ****.”

      • Monday

        I think that’s awesome. I too have learned a lot (online in general) about struggles that don’t affect me personally. I think it’s a good forum for voluntary education of this kind.

    • Monday

      Interesting question. I’ve been reading since 2010 and have changed a lot in that time, personally and professionally, so it would be hard to know what’s attributable to this blog. Overall I’d say it’s made me feel like more of an outlier, in my fashion taste and some of my lifestyle choices. (this is fine, but again not the case with my real life friends.) It’s given me insight into young parenthood, since I don’t have any close friends with kids. I like to think I’m less judgmental now, mostly because in just about everything I see someone else doing “wrong,” I recognize myself some way or another.

    • Anon

      It has not made me more or less fashionable. I am just too lazy to put in the effort too look polished. Most of the recommendations don’t suit my lifestyle (very casual office). In the last one and a half year, I have bought just one blouse that was mentioned here on frugal friday. I like to come here for the variety of topics that are discussed.

    • Anonymous

      I don’t think what I wear has changed all that much, but I have become more knowledgeable about fashion/brands/trends. I was always judgmental about others’ choice of apparel and that hasn’t changed (often when I see someone around campus I wonder what role they have where their outfit would be considered remotely appropriate, and draw a blank).

    • Anne

      Not necessarily more fashionable, but able to appreciate the effort that goes into other women being so.

    • anonsg

      It has made me less judgey, because after reading here, I’ve realized there are a lot of people out there that are judgey. It has made me worried and anxious about what people might think about certain things I do or say. It has made me dress older than I am, because I don’t want people to make presumptions because I look and am younger than everyone in my office. It has also made me realize that a lot of people turn to therapy. I have learned a lot about bfeeding and being pregnant and negotiating salaries.

      • Bewitched

        +100, especially re therapy. It’s comforting to know everyone has struggles!

    • Anonymous

      I definitely know how to dress myself and look polished and pulled together, which is a huge confidence booster. That is definitely directly attributable to this blog, as this was not a skill I possessed before.

      I’ve never been a judgey person, and I don’t think reading has made me into one, but I do notice whether others’ clothing fits them well or not. I mostly just use these things as reference points for things I should or shouldn’t do. No judgment, though.

    • AIMS

      Hmmm…. Like Monday, I think I went through a lot of life changes since I started reading so it’s hard to say. I think I basically first found this blog in 2009 when I was recently out of law school and still figuring out what work life/attire/etc. was all about. Since that time I went from having a ton of “personal life” clothes and little to wear to work to almost the exact opposite – lots of work clothes and what the hell do I wear to a friend’s birthday party?

      I don’t think I’ve become more fashionable or less, though I probably do dress a bit more appropriately for work now (I have more work clothes!). And probable some of my outfits are a bit more sedate, but I can’t say if that’s for better or worse.

      As for more or less judge-y, I’m at a judgment stasis, really. I don’t think I was ever judgmental before but it is nice to see some of the viewpoints expressed here. Often, even if I don’t agree with someone, it’s interesting to hear them articulate why they feel a certain way.

    • anon2

      It has improved my wardrobe quite a lot and has opened my eyes to topics that I hadn’t been aware of before. It helped me negotiate at $20,000 (20%) raise in 2013.

  3. NYNY

    I saw these shoes on Amazon this week and swooned a little. Seem like a great choice with black tights!

  4. Calcutta airport, anyone?

    A friend of mine is heading to Kolkata/Calcutta — her plane arrives relatively late at night, so she’ll be spending the night in the airport before heading out to the city later in the morning.

    Does anyone have any experience with the Calcutta airport? Particularly spending the night there in terms of amenities, things to be aware of?

    • MJ

      Does she even know whether the airport is open overnight? Some airports close at a certain hour. Never been to India, but….she should check.

    • Anonymous

      Is she dumb? Why isn’t she having her hotel arrange for a car to meet her? Sleeping on the floor of Calcutta airport is not a good plan.

      • Nonny

        An unnecessary comment, but Anonymous does have a point. I would think it would be fairly easy to ask the hotel to send a car to the airport, and that would certainly be the safest and most comfortable option. I don’t know about Calcutta specifically, but my experience of other Indian airports is that there is not much to recommend them for overnighting as a solo female traveller.

    • Nancy P

      Is her logic that it’s safer to stay at the airport than get a cab at that hour? I have heard stories about cab kidnappings from Indian airports. That being said, I wouldn’t expect any amenities there — my recollection of the airports in India (albeit 8 years ago) was that you were lucky to have a Western-style toilet. I agree with Anonymous, I’d have her hotel send her a car.

    • tesyaa

      Unlike other commenters, I assumed she is staying at an airport hotel. Does she really plan to sleep in the airport?

    • cc

      I wouldn’t spend the night in an airport anywhere, never mind one I was unfamiliar with.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      There is a website/forum entirely dedicated to sleeping in airports. I found it once going down the internet rabbit hole. I don’t have time to google it but I’m sure someone could find it and see what the users report for that airport.

      • Katie

        sleepinginairports.net

        FWIW, I’ve spent long layovers (not overnight) in European airports where I’ve slept for maybe 30-45 minutes at a stretch after a long international flight. I kept my paperwork and credit cards tucked into my shirt in an around-the-neck pouch, and slept hunched over my bag (with locks on the zippers) with my arms wrapped around it. I was still paranoid. You really don’t want to wake up with your stuff missing- or worse. I strongly suggest she seek out an alternative plan.

    • Spirograph

      This sounds like an absolutely terrible idea. I have never been to India, but have several (mostly male) friends of Indian descent who return often and I talk with them about traveling there because it’s a place on my bucket list. Every single one of them has admonished me to the effect to never, ever be out in a major city alone at night, because violence and harrassment against women is every bit as bad as it seems in the Western media with a story about rape every week.

      • Anonymous

        I’m from India, am generally very tolerant of risk, and have done a lot of crazy things while travelling in far flung parts of the world, but I would not do this. It probably won’t be the end of the world if I did, but it’s most likely not a choice I’d make.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      In moderation but there is a forum dedicate just to the topic of sleeping in airports. Google should get you to it. I don’t know if that airport is discussed.

    • Little Red

      Bad bad idea! Traveling in India isn’t like traveling here in the US or Western Europe especially for a solo female traveler.

    • Alanna of Trebond

      The Calcutta airport has improved a great deal, but I would not recommend sleeping on the floor of the airport (although the floor has gotten a lot cleaner). The hotels in Calcutta are pretty cheap though, so I would really opt for that option over sleeping in the airport. Please feel free to email me–I’ve put it in the reply. I’ve been to Calcutta A LOT.

      Just to respond to the comments, the airport does have western style toilets, but food is not available aside from working hours (although I have been there very early morning rather than very late night).

    • AN

      Please do NOT plan to spend the night in Kolkata airport. it is the dirtiest airport i have ever seen. i think they did a renovation a while ago but i wouldn’t do this. The new Mumbai/Delhi airports are great and busy 24/7 so no issue with safety either. But not Kolkata.

  5. Vicarious Shopping

    Pretty shoes.

    If anyone is up for a shopping challenge, I am looking for a cream or ivory jacket to wear with work dresses for fall/winter. I am short, so I like jackets that hit at the high hip. Just to make it challenging, I prefer round collars (think Classic Chanel tweed) as opposed to a blazer. Thanks for any suggestions!

  6. Busybee

    I posted on this morning’s thread regarding losing weight while extremely busy (16-20 hour days & weekend). I loved a lot of the advice, and I’ve started to accept the fact that it’s not that likely that I’ll be able to lose much weight on that schedule.

    In that vein, does anyone have any tips for making my current wardrobe (with some additions) work for the next 2 months until the busy period subsides. I’m confident I’ll be able to lose the weight after that (as long as I’m able to exercise, losing weight tends to come a bit easier for me). My guess is I wind up 15-20 pounds over my normal weight by the end (I’m 5’10” so that’s not HUGE for me, but it’s still a full size or so).

    Thanks for the great advice.

    • Anon

      So I might get flack for suggesting this, but if you’re having trouble zipping your pants/skirts – maybe try a Belly Band?

    • TXLawyer

      I wear nothing but dresses, usually in a jersey material, when I’m trying to stretch my wardrobe to accommodate weight gain.

    • Dress the body you have ...

      It’s hard to give advice without knowing what you have in your closet and where you are gaining the weight, but I would suggest buying 3-4 skirts or suits in the size that fits your body now. They don’t have to be amazing, they just need to be suitable for the climate and your office. I did this in reverse over the past year, and found that buying just skirts worked the best, but I tend to wear mix & match pieces, not full suits.

      But comfortable skirts that fit made all the difference in how I felt about my body. And most of the tops that I owned were more forgiving in size.

      Then ramp up your accessories a little and make sure that you look your best.

      Since you are working a lot of hours, go online and order what you need, use ebates, look for coupon codes, etc. You can probably just go with the same styles that you currently have, just size up.

      When you get back to your desired size, donate your purchases to Dress for Success or your local career closet.

      • Lady Tetra

        Macy’s EDV line of suits, especially the Calvin Klein. Plain, professional, cheap.

    • Anon

      Buy some shape wear? It should not be too terrible to wear them as the weather gets cooler.

  7. rachelellen

    A lot of folks here, including Kat, seem to be fans of Remember the Milk. I downloaded it and started using and am completely perplexed by the fact that it doesn’t sync your information across platforms. I like the Ipad interface but if I’m stuck with using it on my phone, why is the app showing me completely outdated information? I found a little round “sync” button but when I push it, it tells me the next sync is coming up in a day or so. This seems so obvious and major a flaw that I have to assume I’m doing something wrong?

    • January

      I think you have to use the paid version for it to sync more than once a day. It’s annoying, and a reason I haven’t really gotten into using Remember the Milk.

    • Middle Coast

      You have to pay for it – $25 a year – well worth it in my opinon.

  8. Gym Decision

    I’m trying to pick a new gym. I left my old one, it was a city-based chain, because I didn’t love how jam packed it was, or that I always was being pushed into hiring a trainer. So, I have two new options

    1) the local Y – they have a pool and classes! But they are a 10 minute walk from work and home (in between work and home). In the winter this may be a deterrence. But the plus membership also has a tote box and towel service, so I’d really just have to worry about gym clothes. Also, I’d have access to the across the country.

    2) A locally owned gym that is 2 minutes from my house- extremely convenient. No classes, no pool, much smaller facility. I’m worried they may also be pushy with trainers. But they are so close, that distance would never be an excuse. It is cheaper than the Y, but clearly has fewer amenities. But it’s so close.

    • TXLawyer

      Can you do a short term guest pass at the local gym? Feel out how pushy they are? I find that I like signing up for gyms with tons of amenities, but I’m usually so pressed for time that I just use the cardio/weight machines. Convenience is always the #1 factor for me in picking a gym because I don’t need distance to be another deterrent to actually going.

    • BB

      I’d do #2 for sure – anything that cuts my ability to make excuses is important for me. I don’t want to do multiple nights of “well…I got home slightly later than usual and it’s cold…and it’s a whole 10 minute walk…meh, won’t go tonight.”

      I second the trial pass, but honestly on the personal trainers, I’ve found that if you are very firm with them, they will stop pushing. You have to be very direct and say: “I will not be buying any personal training services, and I do not appreciate you calling/interrupting my workout.” Don’t do the nice thing and say “oh, I’m not really interested right now…”

      • Anon

        +1. My old gym was really pushy with the personal trainers. I had to tell them three times (once when signing up, and twice when trainers approached me) and was polite, but firm that “I don’t do personal trainers and will not reconsider” and they dropped it. I ended up on friendly terms with a couple trainers there but it was just saying hi, small talk, talking workouts, with no pressure to sign up from thereafter.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I’d go with the Y. A 10 minute walk isn’t that bad. Could you also drive in bad weather? It is ridiculous to drive a mile but sometimes the weather makes it worth it. Also, do you have any networking considerations at either. I actually don’t belong to our local Y because ALL of the lawyers work out there and it is a networking mecca. When I’m working out, I DON’T want to network. Nor do I want all my colleagues seeing me. Nor do I want to see them. Conversely, others wouldn’t go anywhere else because they want to see all their colleagues there.

    • HSAL

      Would you take advantage of the classes or pool, or is just that they’re available? I used to tell myself that I stayed with my gym because the monthly price was cheaper than going to a yoga class every week, and I had so many other class options that would cost more elsewhere. But then I only used the elliptical and never took the classes, so it was cheaper for me to quit and use my elliptical at home.

      • Gym Decision

        I really like classes- some are free, but all the ones I like are registered and have a price, so if I sign up, I will definitely go.

        I also like that the Y has a more varied clientele – all shapes, sizes and ages. The local gym seems full of already fit people, based on what I’ve seen.

        • HSAL

          Then I vote for the Y. I agree with Blonde Lawyer, 10 minutes isn’t bad – and it’s bonus exercise.

        • Danielle

          I just joined my local Y and I absolutely love it. I find the machines are newer and in much better condition, I can almost always get on a treadmill at any time, and the pool is much better. However, it’s a big plus for me because it is more conveniently located than my old gym.

          In my experience, the old gym did not care about keeping up the equipment and were cheap but always overcrowded.

    • Susie

      A few factors to consider: First, make sure you consider the hours and holiday closures for each. The reason I kept my (large chain) gym membership even though we have a fitness center at work is because the work one has very limited hours, especially on weekends, and is closed for every holiday.
      How important is the pool? To me, it’s something that sounds nice to have but in reality I never use so not a big factor in my decision.
      Classes – review the schedule at the Y and see which would fit in your schedule and consider if you would go. (As others noted, take advantage of the free trial to try out a few)
      How much do you travel, is having access to other Ys something you would take advantage of?

      • Gym Decision

        I travel probably for a month a year for work, plus other vacations, so I would probably use the Y in other cities.

        They both have similar hours, though the Y is open year round except Christmas Day, and the local gym closes for some holidays.

        The classes are well timed in the sense that I’d either be leaving around that time, or working late enough that I need an hour break before coming back for the night.

    • Anon

      As long as parking is convenient, I would go with the Y. I currently belong to a gym near my office that has great classes (so I actually look forward to working out) and fabulous locker room amenities (i.e. towel service, flip-flops for the shower, toiletries)– which make it really convenient to drop by on the way home from work or for a break before working late at the office. I will have to drive the two blocks between my office and gym in the winter months, but the classes and amenities are worth it.

    • Angela

      I have recently become a champion of the Y. We had a membership in our previous city, the facility was less than 5 yrs old and absolutely beautiful. Then we recently moved several hrs away and resigned myself to finding a chain or something local. But this Y is lovely too. I will say we bought the ramped up membership with towel service and adult only change room to stay out of the swimming lesson wet kid /wet floor drama.

      It’s easy to cancel unlike some other chains I once belonged to, they have professional services like trainers, everyone has their certificates/designations. they also keep fairly up to date with what is current (spin, yoga, etc) and they ask if you would like a trainer but they don’t push it. My teens and hubs and I go and everyone finds something to do.

  9. Nellie

    Am I a germaphobe?
    So I work in a small office (of 4 plus occasional interns). We have frequent turnover (think fellowships / term positions). I’m permanent. We have mostly new people as of this month.
    My office is at the end of our suite right next to the (single-person) bathroom. None of the new people washes his or her hands upon exiting. (I can easily tell, although I certainly wasn’t trying to notice!) Is this weird? I am totally grossed out. Is this germaphobia? (If it helps, our toilet cannot be flushed with a foot so they are definitely always touching something in addition to the door handle.)

    (Before anyone gives me the “What if it’s just #1?” response, which a pal of mine did when I mentioned it person, can you please explain why that would matter?)

    • Nancy P

      I am definitely not a germaphobe (as in I’ve applied the 5 second rule regularly), but I think that’s icky.

    • Equity's Darling

      No that’s icky.

      But I’m the person who always washes their hands when I come into work in the morning/get home in the evning just to minimize the chances of catching something from my commute, so I might be the wrong person to ask. I am very pro-handwashing- it’s such an easy way to prevent the spread of germs.

    • Wildkitten

      I think many men don’t wash their hands after #1. I don’t know why not.

      • something

        I think that’s way grosser because they’re actually touching their privates. All I touch is toilet paper.

      • Anon

        Maybe it’s like people who don’t want to wash their hands after shaking hands with a dignitary/celebrity – in the man’s eye, he’s just touched greatness :)

      • AIMS

        I had a guy try to explain this to me. He said that if anything he would consider washing his hands before because then he is touching himself with cleaner hands but his “greatness” is cleanly tucked inside his pants all day, so why bother washing after??

        • Baconpancakes

          Yeah, so he’s basically wiping your hand with his peen. *eyeroll* (Not at you, at men. I had an ex try to pull that on me as well.)

          • AIMS

            Exactly! You’ve articulated the exact problem with his logic I could never quite put into words.

            Same guy, btw, told a mutual friend of ours that he would totally “go after” me if he wasn’t already married. No coincidence as to his sense of self. As if, though!

    • Nellie

      Well, glad it seems like it’s them, not me! And I wish we didn’t have a communal coffee maker . . .

      • S in Chicago

        Copy machines, elevator buttons, meeting room tables, doorknobs, stair rails, drinking fountains, vending machine buttons that probably have never ever been washed, conference room phones ….

        Go Team Germaphobe all the way!

    • MJ

      Time for a passive aggressive note on the mirror in the bathroom stating that “It’s cold and flu season again. Please wash your hands!”

    • anon2

      Wash my hands when getting to work, getting back from lunch, after using the restroom, before making lunch in lunchroom, arriving home. I use a paper towel to open bathroom doors always and other doors if possible. Poke elevator buttons with my knuckle if paper towel isn’t handy. Use clorox wipes weekly on phone, keyboard, mouse, desk, office doorknob. Use Purell before eating in restaurants if dining with friends/family (not brave enough to do it during business lunches). If on business lunch and it’s possible, I’ll use restroom/paper towel routine if I can get away with it before eating.

      I’m not normally an OCD person but seeing how many people don’t wash their hands and how dirty public transport is, I take care and I think it does reduce the number of colds/flu I get each year.

  10. TO Lawyer

    In the vein of shopping challenges, I’ve been looking for a pink blazer. Preferably a darker/hot pink (but not neon), either in a traditional suiting type material or a heavier wool type material. Any suggestions?

    Thanks ladies!

    • Sydney Bristow

      Boden has one as part of a suiting collection right now. I bought the pencil skirt that matches it, but not the jacket. I think they are also having a sale this week. 20% off and free shipping maybe?

      • Sydney Bristow

        Sorry I’m wrong! I went to get the link and it looks like the pink jacket isn’t available anymore. It’s the Canary Wharf Jacket. Maybe they’ll bring back the pink one.

    • anonsg

      I saw one on the sale rack at Banana Republic Factory Store not too long ago but not sure if they still have them

      • Erisa

        I know exactly what you’re talking about! I almost bought the matching hot pink tweed skirt and jacket but thought I’d come off a little too Elle Woods.

  11. chi

    Specific question for those of you in small or mid law in Chicago (or a comparable market) – what’s your salary? I need to propose a number and would love some specific numbers to round out my general research. Haven’t been able to find much on previous threads. TIA!!

    • just Karen

      I don’t have any info for you, but I think you might have more luck with responses if you clarify what type of law and whether you’re just starting out or how many years of experience, etc… I think small to mid-law can be a huge range depending on experience, billable requirements, area of law, etc…

    • Small - Chicago

      I’m late to this but I’m in very small law doing estate planning. I’m a second year making $80k. Midlaw for a second year is probably closer to $100-$125k. I also know people who work in small firms doing PI or other civil litigation who make much less. Would definitely help to know the area and the size of the firm.

  12. Anonymous

    There have been various things on here from time to time about people at work making snide remarks about women who put too much effort into their appearance, whatever that means. For example, “If she only spent as much effort on her work as she does her wardrobe…..” First of all, what does this even mean, and second, at what point does looking polished and great cross into this territory?

    • cavity maker

      um. So I have heard this before.– a lot. I think that it’s pretty straight forward.

      When I’ve heard it, it has meant that the person put a lot of effort into the how they look (or their power point presentation) but not the content of their presentation. Most often it comes up for me in court when someone is dressed to the 9s, but they are not prepared on their case, or they have a flashy powerpoint on X or Y argument but don’t know the most important case on big issue.

      Normally, I hear this applied to women more often than men.

    • Cat

      IMHO… this only comes up when a female who is not performing up to expectations also has a very high maintenance look — like long, perfectly blown out hair or intricate styles every day, visibly heavy makeup, and/or a large, showy wardrobe. The point being, maybe if she traded an hour of primping for an hour of getting up to speed on her work, she’d be doing a better job. If you’re doing a kicka$$ job AND have high maintenance style, it’s compliments more often than a jokey comment about styling time.

      ETA: for men, the equivalent seems to be “all style and no substance,” but that is more typically targeted at work product than actual appearance (probably because there’s fewer opportunities for men to look visibly high maintenance in business attire). Like cavity maker said above, it often comes up when the PPT has tons of effects or a document has lots of fancy bullets and fonts, but not a lot of real thought.

    • Senior Attorney

      I think the statement you’ve quoted means “her work is not up to par.” It’s not about how you look, it’s about your work. Nobody would ever say that about somebody whose work was awesome, no matter how polished and great she looked.

    • OP

      Ok, so it’s probably only something that’s an issue if the woman in question isn’t performing well. got it. What qualifies as a high maintenance style? I understand the hair, but in terms of clothing, is this like too many accessories/jewelry, or does quality of clothing enter the picture? What’s an intricate style? Sorry, I really don’t have good sense for these things.

      I sort of see my own style as approaching minimalism, but I make sure to buy stuff that’s made of nice material and cut really well. I also get a lot of compliments on fashion and generally being fashionable, (which is such a bizarre idea to me) and part of me wonders if I’m detracting attention from work with fashion.

      • Cat

        I would say it’s the apparent time the woman spends on choosing her clothing and preening over appearance, rather than quality/price. Like, Kate Gosselin and Kim Kardashian are both extreme examples.

        Duchess Kate is one that sets a good example here – she’s widely complimented for her tasteful style, and clearly spends time attending to hair and makeup, but it doesn’t look like she spent 3 hours to get out the door.

        If people have been complimenting you on your style, I wouldn’t worry that they think you’re paying too much attention to fashion — most people aren’t THAT backhanded. When it is an underperforming woman, people seem more likely to look at/notice her, but not really say anything to her directly.

        • Monday

          Re Kate Middleton- really? She always looks very fussily done up to me, and she travels with a professional hairdresser just for her. I wouldn’t think of her as a test for this issue, however, because her role is so much about presentation/image rather than performing a work function.

          • Brit

            But I think her style is easily copied by someone getting ready in the morning. It’s a simple hair style that you can put up in rollers and leave in while you put on your makeup. Sure, you’re not going to have every strand perfect in place like she does, but it still looks like you took the effort to look put together.

      • hoola hoopa

        In all honesty, I wouldn’t worry about this.

        If you’re performing well at work, no one is going to ding you for being stylish or maintained so long as you’re appropriate for your field.

        If you’re not performing well and someone wants to belittle you, people may say something like this about you if you’re stylish – but if you’re not stylish they’ll just pick something else. It’s not about your looks; it’s about getting in a dig, whatever it may be.

  13. tesyaa

    Quick responses needed: I have a few minutes (literally) to buy my teenage son some man-sized everyday pants (he’s grown out of boys’ husky sizes). Which has a better selection, Kohl’s or Target? Quality is not a big factor since he will probably not wear these forever… and I only have time to go to one store on my way home from work.

  14. Medic Maggie

    launching…toe in the water

    oncethriftedtwiceloved dot spot-of-the-blog dot com

  15. AsAnonAsAnonCanBeForThis

    Hello Hive. Quick question–I have resigned from my job for better, less-abusive horizons and couldn’t be happier; the last week and the next few weeks consist of me doing my job while silently reciting to myself “Be professional and avoid rude gestures. Be professional and avoid rude gestures. Be professional and…” I’m exaggerating–a bit. This job has been the pits. I am staying in the field (a small one) and want to leave a good/classy impression. I have been summoned before the powers-that-be to explain myself (resigning.) Looking at the guest list for this meeting, I have a hunch that I am in for a psychological beat-down, as this group has a longstanding history of epic nastiness to anyone who dares to leave. I have a reputation of being honest and direct and would be that way in the meeting as well, but I don’t answer to these people anymore and I don’t think there’s too much to be gained from meeting with them. Do you think otherwise? These are people with whom I might have to interact in the future, but this is not guaranteed. Thank you in advance!

    • 2 Cents

      I say you be direct as possible while still remembering you’ll have to deal with these people again (references, even if you don’t list them, someone might call; it being a small field, etc.). (Also, it would go without saying, if I didn’t write it, that Ask A Manager writes a lot about leaving horrible places.)

      “Why are you leaving when this is the best place in town?”
      “I needed a change of pace and my next office will offer me that.”

      “You know you never did anything right here.”
      “I have left all of my projects and their timelines on my desk/computer and ready for the next person to make the transition as smooth as possible.”

      “You know you’ll be dealing with us in the future.”
      “And this experience will be helpful, I’m sure.”

      “Do you have any feedback for us?”
      “*innocuous comment about getting better coffee in the break room*”

    • Anononon

      I took a BEATING. B-E-A-T-I-N-G three jobs ago. I somewhat blindsided my management when I gave my notice – left industry, left field, left koolaid drinkers for the for-profit world and they just… just – it was bad. Threats, attorneys, harassment, whole 9 yards.

      My personality sounds similar to yours – direct, to the point, but professional always. Though, I wanted so badly to waltz in there and toss ’em the bird (that’s being direct, right?). But, that’s what they want…. don’t give it to them. Maintain composure at ALL costs. If they are loud, stay calm and cool. Have some prepared one-liners to address the inevitable “why” questions. When asked why I was leaving, I just kept saying, “I found another opportunity that I could not turn down” and did. not. budge. from that. Eventually (it took a while), it exhausted them and in the process they ended up looking like the @sses at the end of the day. I was professional to the max, and 4 years later I (unwillingly) crossed paths with someone who was in that room and she commended me for my behavior.

      Remember – you have the job; you’re on a path out of there. The last two weeks are about self preservation. It would be absolutely glorious for you to give them constructive feedback about why you’re leaving to better their firm/future employees, but you’re already anticipating hostility. Focus on you and your reactions. This is not the time to escalate, even if you have an out. You don’t have to “explain yourself” for leaving, as much as they try to convince you otherwise. You got this!!

      • OP

        Yes, I’ve spent a lot of energy biting back SO many comments lately at work! When I’ve talked with others who have left, they’ve told me that this group fights dirty when angered–threats, etc. I figured I should attend because it would look unprofessional to just leave without appearing open to discussion. Oh well, should provide a good story down the road! And thank you.

  16. family issues

    So, my in laws are white and I’m not. They engage in a lot of casual racism and often enough make blatantly racist statements. This would bother me no matter what color I am, but the issue takes on a different tone given that I’m a minority. They fancy themselves so enlightened and really do love me, but they also have a weird fetish with my national origin and like to fancy me exotic entertainment. (not in the stripper way, obviously) That’s when they’re not saying overtly racist and disparaging things about my background as well as that of others. DH isn’t super fond of his family, so it’s been easy thus far to avoid them. But it’s not always possible, and this whole issue really eats at me sometimes. Any tips on how to just get over it and move on with my life?

      • OP

        So, with a couple of people yes, and with the rest, he’s tried to point out to them why what they’re saying is problematic, but I think they don’t get it. I generally think they’re “nice” or “good” people or whatever, but I think a lot of this is beyond their ability to understand. He thinks that bringing me into it directly with most of the people will make our visits more unpleasant for me than they already are, and I think he’s probably right. He also likes to avoid them a lot, so I’m usually inclined to think it’s not worth pursuing if it’s going to create a fuss because I don’t see them often enough for it to be worth it, and we’re really not family oriented people.

        • Shaman

          Wow, that stinks–I’m sorry. I got the impression that it was just his parents–which doesn’t make it any more acceptable, it’s just easier to deal with fewer people. I suspect that the more people who are involved, the less likely there will ever be any change. I would just never see them if they’re not high on the priority list and there aren’t any must-attend family get-togethers.

          • OP

            yeah, in practical terms, that’s the way I’m leaning and more or less what I’ve done for the past year or so. It just really gets under my skin every time I think about, and I need to let it go. I’ve let go of plenty of things before without much of an issue, but this is just really hard for some reason. Any experience on dealing with something like that?

        • Anonymous

          Family member: horrible racist thing

          You: gosh , how terribly racist. I’m very uncomfortable with those comments. Please do excuse me, I need a refill on flan

          Then walk away. You’ve narrowed your options to saynothingputupwithit or engageineducation when there’s a third option.

      • Sacha

        Or has he mentioned that it bothers him?
        I’d work on a few zinger retorts or puzzled responses, e.g., “Oh, is that what you think of ______ people?” Or “Huh, I don’t see myself and my family that way at all.” Or “Yeah, in _____, we think Caucasians are exotic, but it turns out you’re just as boring as everyone else.” At least it might make them pause and think about what they’ve just said, which could be effective if they think of themselves as enlightened (though it sounds to me like they think making an exception for you makes them enlightened).

        • OP

          Yeah, basically whenever I start talking, they’ll tell me I’m wrong (i.e. I don’t know anything about my own culture) Or they just talk over me. I’ve only made a few attempts to address this behavior outright. I don’t think DH has mentioned that it bothers him, but I don’t actually know.

          So it seems like people think I should address this with the family rather than focusing on mentally moving myself on from this?

          • Anonymous

            Yeah. There’s no way to get to a healthy mental place where people say racist things about you to your face and yours fine with it. You shouldn’t be fine with it. At the least, get up and leave. Do you want your kids hearing their mother tolerate this?

          • OP

            Well, we’re not going to have kids. And you’re right that there’s no way to get to a healthy mental place with this stuff going on. But that’s where the option of avoiding them altogether comes in. That’s what we’ve done for the past year. DH goes to see them periodically, but I’m always “working.” It’s a step shy of cutting them off. Maybe not the best way to deal with it, but it’s a problem that isn’t going to get much better as is. Anyway, there’s not often an active stimulus given that I rarely see them, but I still can’t seem to let go of the bad feelings.

          • Wildkitten

            YOU should not address it with the family. Your DH can address it with his own family. However, these sound like rude people who would not listen to this very teachable moment. Sad for them, time for family-reunion-bingo for you.

          • anon

            I agree that your DH should address it with his family. This is how I would approach it. I would accompany him on the next visit. When the first comment arises, I would want him to address it directly to that person, in front of whoever is there. If that person’s reaction is normal (as you describe it – NOT socially normal, just their typical response), I and my DH would get up and leave. And I’d be sure to tell them why we are leaving and why neither of us will be returning. For me, that would be sufficient to cut off all contact, for myself and my spouse. But given what you describe, I would be entering the situation with an eye to severing all contact because their behavior is not appropriate. YMMV.

    • Samantha

      Try saying “Ouch!” or something that indicates that they hurt your feelings when they make a casually racist statement? This is non-confrontational (my preferred approach) and may help them be more careful if they realize they hurt YOU, a person that they love.
      I think this will work better than lecturing them on racism etc. because it’s easy for them to just blow that off.

      • Anonymous

        Agreed, it’s possible that they don’t even realise this stuff is hurtful (not that this makes it ok, more that they are going to keep doing it of they think it’s nbd).

  17. Alzheimer's Family Resources/Support?

    I’m looking for help for a family member who’s a caregiver for a spouse with Alzheimer’s disease. The spouse is still somewhat independent and functional, but becoming increasingly belligerent; though he’s always been abusive, he hadn’t attacked her in some time. My family member recently had a heart attack following an altercation with her husband, and we feel that her health and safety are now endangered. While we’re prepared to support her and help her stay somewhere safe for a while, we believe her health and safety ultimately depend on getting him out of the house and somewhere he can be cared for – but we’re not sure what resources, legal or otherwise, are available for her. The spouse is a veteran and could enter the local VA nursing facility, but since they depend on his pension, would all of his pension & social security income go toward his care? She receives a very small social security benefit and is on Medicare. Would her financial situation be improved if she divorced him before he entered care? If anyone can direct me to resources for family members, I’d appreciate it!

    • Anonymous

      I’m not an expert, and not a VA spouse, but they may well need his pension, and unfortunately, without long term caare insurance (and even with it), she may well end up in a bad financial situation. Divorce is considered a legitimate option to head off the need to spend down assets for Medicaid, I believe, although he may well be entitled to a lot of any finances as a disabled spouse. For Medicaid, (generally, you can keep a house up to a certain dollar amount, a cheap car, and about $100,000 in assets if you’re the so-called community spouse, if you haven’t set up other financial arrangements (trusts and the like).

      • Carrie

        For him to qualify for Medicaid, the spouse us still allowed to keep a out $2600 per month of social security/ pension, in addition to the house, car and slightly over 100k in assets.

        Call his neurologist’s office and tell the doctor what has happened and that placement in a memory care nursing facility is now needed. Ask for assistance from the social worker that works into Neurology clinic. Make an appointment with the VA to discuss his benefits / options. The VA can be wonderful and she may be able to get more services without giving up so much.

        The Alzheimer’s association is wonderful. Consider calling them it get advice.

    • Anon

      The answer to all of your questions is the usual legal cliche, “It depends.” Consider consulting with an attorney who specializes in elder law. You can find some here: http://www.naela.org/

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