Corporette.com

Updated: Dec 4, 2018 382 Comments · by

Tuesday’s Workwear Report: Refined Scallop-Edge Ponte Sheath

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. This ponte sheath dress from Talbots comes in regular, petite, and women's sizes up to 24W. While these kinds of cutouts can be very “know your office” (and know your own body), what I like about this dress compared to others with cutouts is that it's not intended to be bodycon; it's more of a shift silhouette than a sheath. Particularly around the holidays, it's also a nice, festive color, and the sleeves are interesting without being too crazy or inappropriate for work. I think this could easily go from day to night with just a few extra touches of a blingy necklace or fancier heels, and it's just a very polished, easy dress. The price ranges from $139–$159, but today at Talbots you can get 30% off your entire purchase. Refined Scallop-Edge Ponte Sheath This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! (If you are interested in plus-size workwear, please sign up for CorporettePlus, our newsletter! Signing up helps us gauge interest in the project, and we promise not to blast your email more than once a week at most. Right now it’s more like once a month.)

See More Recent Plus-Size Work Outfit Picks Here:

Sales of note for 9.10.24

Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…

RSS Error: WP HTTP Error: cURL error 60: Issuer certificate is invalid.

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. Anonymous

    Asking for a view from the hive….. I manage a team who have been going through a very tough time in terms of hours and the type of work they are doing as well as resourcing limitations. We have been asking a lot of them over the past 6 month due to an acquisition and it will continue for another 2 months at least. I want to recognise this and support them through this period but we can’t do anything about salaries or promotion for budgetary reasons in the short term. I know that they are at the edge of giving up and looking to leave the organisation.

    What would help you to get through this sort of situation – I can do e.g. small monetary gifts, team events, limited days off, jump in and help them get through the mundane tasks, as well as obviously giving them positive feedback. Does anyone have any advice as to how to help them and what would mean something to you? I’m obviously talking to them about this as well, but because they are all very stretched, I don’t know that I’m getting honest responses from them right now. I’m working on salaries and bonuses but it’s not possible until the next budget year and I can’t mention that to them until it’s certain.

    • anon

      Yes to small monetary gifts and limited days (or even part days) off, plus positive feedback. No to team events, unless it’s covering a meal. They don’t want to spend any more time on work than they already are–even if it’s “fun.”

      • Cat

        +1. Do NOT add “fun team events” on top of an already busy schedule. Mandatory fun isn’t real fun.
        Positive feedback/understanding, taking low-priority work/meetings off the to-do list, flexibility with WFH if the work allows, and additional time off, are all WAY more meaningful than, say, a Starbucks gift card.

        • Owl Lover

          I agree. That one hour lunch of alone time is worth a million bucks to me. But, if you got me a gift card for lunch/coffee, or ordered food for lunch with no expectation of eating it with me… I’d be a happy camper.

    • Anon

      I agree that “fun” events are a bad idea. People in this situation want to go home. If you can, I would suggest giving days off or allowing more flexibility for WFH arrangements. I was stuck in a situation like this (80+ hours a week – given monumental tasks with little resources) and my boss basically gave me carte blanche to WFH. It just made a huge difference in my mental health. It’s a lot easier to roll out of bed at 5 am. and know I didn’t have to fight traffic and deal with the commute. Especially in the winter. I managed through the project, got everything done, and came through without hating the company or my boss.

      • Ellen

        I so agree. We have a small group of people, and other then the manageing partner, I do NOT care to sociallize out of work with them. Frank always wants to go out after work to a local bar, where he has become very familiar with since we moved over here from Penn Station, but I have NO desire to drink alchohol with him or anyone else from work. I do NOT mind opening a bottle of wine with Margie and the manageing partner, but am queezy when his brother is there b/c he has touched and rubbed up against me all to many times, both in and out of the pool. I say FOOEY to men who get cheap thrills by doeing this!

    • Anonymous

      Can you do rolling days off so everyone gets a break, and things like Starbucks cards, fresh fruit delivery and stocking a fridge with better treats than you usually have?

    • Anon

      My team has been going through the same for the past 10 months and we’re finally winding down now that the acquisition is completed. They were working nights and weekends, so the biggest winner was more days off. I planned ahead and meticulously scheduled (and worked extra hours myself) so I could give each of them one extra day off a month. A true day off, where they didn’t have to answer texts or check email or come back to an avalanche of work. It was really hard, but I think it was key to keeping them refreshed and energized.

      I also talked to each one individually. Praised what they were doing right, and for the rockstar ones, specifically said I would support them no matter where their careers take them so if they need advice or a recommendation or resume help, I would be glad to offer it with no awkwardness or expectations about extended resignations. I explicitly told the team I would lobby hard to get their hard work and long hours recognized when it comes to bonus time (which is fairly rare at this company, so it means something if you know you’ll have an advocate).

    • Panda Bear

      If it was me, I’d appreciate positive feedback, as well as clear and transparent communication from you, acknowledging not only that you know how tough things are right now (which it sounds like you are already doing, which is great), but just a willingness to answer whatever questions you can and not keep the team in the dark. Also – time off.

      • anon

        This. Positive feedback would be very welcome, as would an extra day or even a half day off. Let them leave early on a Friday, if possible.

        Maybe cater a nice lunch?

        • Rainbow Hair

          Yes! (Like a lot of the women on this board, I assume) I’m proud of my ability to work really really hard when it’s called for, but it sure stinks when that’s taken for granted.

          At a previous job, during a ridiculous crunch (brought on by bad planning by the higher ups and absolute disregard for the sanity of the staff doing the work) having to claw and beg for things like the ability to expense dinner at 8pm on a Saturday (where, NB, we were already underpaid and the firm was structured to avoid an obligation to give us any benefits)… and bigboss thought he could save money by just buying some cold cuts and bread, and OOF it just killed morale.

          In contrast, a job where I have heard my boss say to his boss, “Rainbow is really stepping up during [thing]” and where I get texts like “heading back to office after meeting. can I get you anything from starbucks?” … it makes such a huge difference. When I was running a team of paralegals, I found the same things helped: praising them to higher ups, acknowledging that it was rough, making good food available, and (if at all possible) structuring schedules so they could have some true time off…

    • Suburban

      I’ve been on the subordinate side of this. What helped was my boss constantly acknowledging the crunch and her continued praise. Also, relaxing silly rules within reason ( ie our dress code, arbitrary reporting timelines, discreetly allowing us to come in later or take small amounts of time off.) Personally, what helped the most was these policies coupled with the continued acknowledgement that a lot was being asked of us and that our work was appreciated.

      Going forward, my management has taken continued steps toward work flexibility in exchange for increased productivity expectations (ie flex schedules, work from home, etc.) I always joke that I’d rather sit in the office until five with a light workload if given the choice, but it seems like those days are over so the exchange seems somewhat fair.

    • LAnon

      – Small gifts with a genuine note of appreciation
      – Time off (or an occasional work from home day if it’s too busy to give time off and that’s not an option usually available)
      – Canceling (temporarily) standing meetings or other unnecessary work
      – Offering a relaxed dress code on days with just heads-down work and no client meetings (if you’re in a formal office)
      – Ask them what you can do to lighten their load
      – Recognition at an all-company meeting/event – a few words of public gratitude that highlights the work they’ve been doing and how critical it is to the company

      If and when you implement any of these things, make it very clear that you are trying in whatever way possible to recognize them for the work.

    • NOLA

      My group have been taking on a lot of work after layoffs and budget cuts. They have been so incredible that I do whatever I can to support them. Last week, we jokingly told our boss that if we were going to absorb the work of a person retiring, we would need a napping chaise in the office. The next week, she took me into an empty office and showed me a loveseat that had been left by someone who recently retired. My team were so excited that we all pitched in for an hour and cleaned up our work area and reorganized things to accommodate it. We now have the loveseat and a throw rug and ottoman and a throw (that I bought at Target last weekend) and pillow. It makes people so happy that, on a stressful afternoon, they can come flop down on the sofa. I’m also planning on little things I can do for them for Christmas to acknowledge their commitment – a piece of wall art that is perfect for one, a giftcard to a new restaurant for another, etc. It’s been a rough semester, so I am doing all I can!

    • HM

      Can you do comp time? In a former job’s busy season we’d get comp time for weekend work that could be used later in the year. It made it easier to muscle through the busy season knowing I could take some good time off later.

    • Anon

      Buy lunch every Friday and eat it together.

      People stay at places where they like their coworkers. This will help them all have a little personal time together without making a big commitment of time.

      • Anonymous

        +1 to buying lunch, but don’t make people sit and eat it together. Lunch is the only time I have to run some personal errands when I’m working long days. I don’t want to spend my limited time sitting around making small talk with my coworkers.

    • Kk

      I got a call last week from the VP of North America for my division at a really big company- news had made it up to him that I was working really hard and extended hours, and it was cool to hear that recognition from someone who I didnt think knew my name. In a similar way, a project leader used to send monthly emails to our extended team, naming individuals and their specific excellent contributions.
      I have to agree that if you can relax the stupid/petty rules, it can help morale. Make sure they’re receiving expense reimbursements on time, make sure they’re fed and have good coffee, make sure they arent spending energy on stupid busywork for you, when they could be devoting time to the project or taking personal time.

    • Anna

      Bit late here, but after a high stress time at work once my boss’ boss gave us a half day, made us all go to a spa and had us choose 2 services within a range. It was my first ever pedicure (I can paint my own nails and it’s not something my girl friends were ever super into), but even if that wasn’t the case it’s definitely something memorable and it showed that he appreciated us.

  2. Eyeliner Search

    I am in the market for a new eyeliner. Any favorites? I have been wearing Almay in the mechanical pencil. I am looking to switch because it often smears onto my eyelid.

    I am looking for: drugstore/ulta brand, easy to apply without tugging, easy to remove without scrubbing, but not so easy that it transfers onto my eyelid after application. Bonus if it is hypoallergenic (that’s why I was using Almay). Thanks for any tips!

    • anon

      I like the Sephora gel eyeliner pencil. The lasting power is good and I haven’t had issues with smudging. Removes easily with my Neutrogena eye makeup remover. My eyes are pretty sensitive and it hasn’t bugged them.

    • Anonymous

      Are you using any sort of eyelid primer- may also be sold as eyeshadow primer ? That makes a difference for me.

    • Anon

      I have issues with eyeliner smearing and transferring onto my lids, and I have been using the Stila Stay All Day Waterproof Liquid Liner for years now. It’s my holy grail eyeliner. Easy to apply (because it’s essentially a felt tip pen), doesn’t budge at all during the day, comes off easily with makeup wipes at night. Other waterproof liquid liners either smudge during the day or refuse to come off without some serious scrubbing. I recently discovered the “micro tip” version of the Stila eyeliner and it makes it even easier to do a very subtle line on my top lashes so my eyes just look defined and perfect for everyday rather than super glamorous.

    • ATL rette

      I buy everything at Target, so I’ve been using the No7 eyeliner and love it! It comes off easily with makeup remover or cleansing oil and stays put all day. I have extremely sensitive eyes and it hasn’t irritated them either and is hypoallergenic. And it’s $8 or so?

    • Kapow

      I have folded eyelids and every brand of eyeliner I’ve ever tried has transferred or rubbed off except for Mac liquid kiner and Milani liquid liner.

      Milani is a somewhat hard to find drugstore brand but once I tried it I switched from Mac. I think you can also get Milani at Amazon?

    • Fadedsunrise

      Not sure if it’s in American drugstores, but Dollywink in either the liquid or the pencil. I believe it’s on Amazon for about $10 bucks. The line for the liquid one is razor thin and the pen stays good quality throughout. I’ve tried more expensive versions from various brands and it’s the only one I keep around.

  3. Falstaff

    I don’t have anything against Talbot’s per se, almost all my work pants are from there, but there is something about the styling or the photography on their site, or maybe it’s the colors of the clothes, that is SO off-putting to me. Like, it’s just bland or weirdly s3x-less or something? I don’t think the clothes are all that different from, say, Boden, but I want everything on the Boden site and basically nothing on the Talbot’s site. Is it just me?

    • Anonymous

      I like that the Talbots models are all standing up (not doing some artsy slouch) and are smiling and looking at the camera (not high fashion, but relatable to me). It would be nice if they showed more angles online. And the models aren’t early 20s (like Boden seems to skew) but older (but I love that Nikki Taylor is working for them).

      OTOH, Boden’s dresses highlight my tummy and I always feel like I have “is she pregnant or does she have fibriods” look in their clothes. They are pretty though.

      Talbots revamped its sizes a couple of years ago and now for a long-legged short-torso cusp petite person, I can’t quite figure out my size (and my local store doesn’t stock suits, so I have to play mail-order roulette). I lived in their washable work-style pants years ago when I was actually post-partum and they were lifesavers.

      I’d love to see someone more high-fashion punk out Talbots clothes with different styling and shooting techniques. Say Talbots + All Saints or Boss (Queen Letitia of Spain is my style icon as of late and she seems to wear a lot of Boss/Max Mara) as a look. Can someone do this on Insta maybe? I’d subscribe or follow.

      • Anonymous

        Late to this thread, but I feel you on the “is she pregnant or does she have fibroids” thing with Boden. Well put, and thanks for the chuckle.

    • Vicky Austin

      I actually really like the colors at Talbots most of the time, but even so the clothes never grab me either the way they do on other sites. I bet it is a photography/styling thing. Or the way they frame the model (like in my mind the iconic Talbots pose has the model’s eyes cut off and you just see Pretty Smile wearing a twinset and elegantly twisting her fingers at her waist – every. single. time.).

    • anon

      It’s not just you! Something about Boden communicates fun and liveliness, even though the clothes are conservative. Whereas the Talbots branding just doesn’t have that vibe. I think color selection is a big part of it, but also the styling makes a difference. Boden nails that “pretty and polished, yet all-natural” vibe. Makeup is tasteful and noticeable, but never heavy; hair looks styled but effortless. Talbots is much more … I don’t know, “not a hair out of place”?

      I’m doing a crap job articulating this, but I agree that there’s a big difference between the two.

    • Cat

      I agree — their posing and styling reads more “bossy relative organizing a baby shower” than “professional woman controlling a meeting.” Some of their clothes are cute in person (though I typically stick to black/navy/white/cream from them; the brighter colors Talbots chooses for knits aren’t my favorites) but the marketing really isn’t working for me. The emphasis on cutesy “theme” clothes (Paris, London) on the catalog covers doesn’t help.

      • Cat

        Why is my comment in moderation? I’ve filled in a real name and email address and saved it for later… for the last few weeks it was DELIGHTFUL to participate in real time. What gives?!?

    • anon

      Talbots always struck me as the place that an older WASP would shop. That’s what I conclude when I look at the picturs on their website. Their pictures are typically a stationary pose with a minimal background, or indoor background (catalogue is different tho, I think). To me their clothes are a combination of the most classic styles with east coast prep thrown in. I’m SURE there’s a way to wear to their pieces and make it funky, mix it up, make it phenomenal, but to my mind, an outfit made entirely of Talbots pieces is going to render lovely but perhaps not noticeable. You’ll look put together but not stand out at all.
      Boden has younger looking models posed in action shots outdoors in the city, sometimes with children in tow if I remember the catalogue correctly, suggesting their clothes are what you live in for a polished look yet active life style as a mom and/or working woman. That’s the vibe I get anyway – and they always add some ‘feminine’ or stripey touch that adds some interest to a classic cut. Their style skews a little too feminine for me, but they are a favorite for some of my friends. (What’s with the low back dresses they try to pass as office appropriate?)
      Interesting idea in this thread – who could take Talbots pieces and style them with different trends? I’d LOVE to see that!

      • Anonymous

        Talbot’s catalog is much better than the website photos. Models set in gorgeous scenery.

    • Anon

      I actually think Talbots clothing is nicer than Boden for a similar price, if you stick to their workwear separates and steer clear of the lobster-embroidered cotton sweater type stuff they also sell.

    • SillyValley

      I actually feel the opposite – in the last year or so Boden has gone in the direction of this faux boho “effortlessness” (which is very effortful in actuality) that feels so gimmicky, and they’re not as size and age inclusive in their models. It just doesn’t feel like Boden wants anyone over the age of 35 or size 12 to wear their stuff. I agree with the comment below that the talbots catalog is more interesting visually than the website shots which are pretty basic.

  4. Same-day blazer help?

    I tried on my suit jacket last night for an interview tomorrow and it doesn’t fit — eek! Any recommendations places to pick up a reasonably-priced black jacket in the DC area (DC proper or Arlington/Alexandria) in a 16/18?

    • Anonymous

      There used to be a Talbots outlet in Springfield that had lots of good jackets in that size range. Maybe it is there still?

      • Anon

        It is still there and it’s amazing…but totally hit or miss. (It’s a true clearance store – so it’s whatever from last season didn’t sell – so it can be like striking gold…or all you find is polka dotted Paris sweaters.) It’s in a strip mall on Bland St in Springfield.

        The Talbots in Old Town is good and the clerks are so helpful. They also have a good selection of women’s sizes, as well.

        (Don’t get me started on how there’s not a Talbots in DC proper anymore. Kills me!)

    • Eloquii

      I’d recommend Eloquii in Pentagon City mall. I got a black suit (dress + matching jacket) there for an interview in a pinch (same situation – jacket didn’t fit and I was desperate!) and it worked out well!

  5. Talbots

    I know that the cool kids don’t shop at Talbots, but I really like how size-inclusive they are (womens AND womens petite). They line most everything that is fancy or work-wear, and their fabrics and construction are solid. I got a pair of PJs there 15 years ago and they just wore out. Their shoes and fancy purses are well-made and reasonably-priced. I wish that they carried (in my city) more suits in stores.

    • Falstaff

      I posted criticism of Talbots above, but I actually really appreciate this about them too! I’m cusp-sized and petite and theirs are the only pants I don’t have to hem. This is why I keep looking at the site and wondering why I can’t get excited about any of their offerings.

    • Anon

      I’ve shopped Talbots on and off for years and still wear their seasonless wool (though I skipped the latest batch due to ruffles -who thought that was a good idea?)

      I think their blouses are good too, for people who appreciate easy-care fabrics like 100% poly, but unfortunately that’s not me.

      The one think I wish they had were long inseams in plus size pants. Because I’m both plus and tall, and you’d think someone would catch on that tall+plus is a fairly common combination

  6. Anon

    Can anyone help me find FLAT black boots that 1) work for wider calves if needed, 2) are not deathy when trying to commute in a Chicago winter and 3) will look passable as workwear.

    I’ve just been staffed on a new project that will have me traveling to client meetings at 7am. While I could carry a pair of shoes to change into, it seems like no one else does that. They just wear their boots that they walked in from the train, which seem to be regular mid-calf boots.

    I usually wear Sorel boots and change into booties in the winter, but that’s not working here. Thoughts? Options?

  7. Anon

    Do you think you can stay at a job long-term when the CEO (of a small company) has trust issues? To give two examples, it rubbed me the wrong way when he gave us a lecture during a staff meeting about “how our timesheets are a commitment to the hours we actually worked” and how he requires “a list of what you worked on” if you take an extra work from home day. This is not based on performance (it was our most profitable year ever), but rather on some kind of weird issues he has as a manager. Am I overreacting or is this a red flag? I find myself bristling at the implication that I would lie on my timesheet or that I would use a WFH to make elaborate pot roasts rather than doing my job like an adult.

    • Anon

      I think you’re overreacting. The company as a whole did well but that doesn’t mean every employee is performing well. This is probably aimed at a few underperformers. Don’t take it personally.

    • Panda Bear

      That would really annoy me too, but if he is otherwise a decent manager/leader, I would try to ignore it and accept that it’s about him, not about me. On the other hand, if it is part of an overall pattern/culture of mistrust, then I wouldn’t be happy there long term.

    • Anon

      I don’t think I could stay. I wouldn’t jump ship without something lined up, but I can’t stand managers who breathe down your neck like this.It’s moronic. If there’s a problem employee, that should be addressed with the problem employee. This is how you run good performers out of an organization.

      • Scarlett

        This. I’d start resume writing and get out. Good employees have options, don’t reward that.

    • LAnon

      Just because it was your most profitable year ever doesn’t mean that everyone is working equally hard and honestly. If you’d like to worry about someone having issues, you can contemplate why you’d feel personally offended by a mild blanket admonishment at a staff meeting. If you know you don’t do these things, don’t somehow make it about you.

    • Suburban

      I don’t think you’re overreacting. I think in any workplace there are hard workers and slackers and the vast majority of folks who do good work and sometimes have unproductive days. I’ve worked for people with trust issues and it just makes average and good workers feel inadequate and stressed. It’s really negative and pervasive in my experience and leads to a toxic environment. That said, your individual manager may have more impact on these things than the ceo.

    • Anon

      OP here – to follow up, I don’t think there is a problem employee anywhere. We have a small team, everyone appears to be really delivering, and I’ve heard the same from supervisors through the grapevine. I still don’t like blanket admonishments when there’s a problem employee, but I especially don’t like them when there isn’t.

      • LAnon

        I think you’ve got your answer then – regardless of what any of us think, if it really bothers you then it’s probably not a place that you can stay long term.

      • anon

        I’m in a similar situation, though in my case the CEO is attempting to work on his trust issues, and I’m in a role where I’ve been able to have conversations with him that are like ‘hey, boss, how can we build trust here so you can relax?’ I’m also trying to decide how long-term this job is for me as a result, though, so IMO you’re not overreacting.

    • Anon

      Long term? No, I personally wouldn’t stay. That kind of thinking drives me crazy. I am a professional adult, I need to be trusted until there’s an actual problem.

  8. Anon

    I’m a junior associate going to a conference next week and am hoping to network for lateral opportunities. I went to a similar conference last year and was incredibly awkward. I felt like everyone knew one another already and was catching up. I also fumbled up striking up conversations because I felt like I was so junior that I had nothing to contribute. Does anyone have tips for how to work through this? Next week is the only networking opportunity I have on the horizon with attorneys at other firms so I want to make the best use of my time there.

    • TX-IHC

      Use being “so junior” as an advantageous segue. Don’t necessarily focus on what you can contribute, be available to learn. I find that when you’re young it can be easier to ask questions of higher ups about how they got there, their specific expertise, etc.
      If you can find any more senior person who can introduce you around, that’s ideal. Your point of introduction can simply just be that you are young/new and you’re trying to meet other folks in the industry.
      I also find that I just have to constantly remind myself to be brave at those things and strike up conversations as much as possible. I remind myself that if someone is not interested in meeting new people (me) then they wouldn’t/shouldn’t have signed up for and attended the conference events in the first place.

      • Wanderlust

        Do people wear nametags at these conferences? I typically find that comforting. In that type of situation, whenever I lock eyes with someone while waiting at the bar for a drink or standing around, I always introduce myself. Nametags make it easier to start the conversation, like “Hi [person], nice to meet you. So what do you do at [firm/company]?”

    • aBr

      Look for other people who are standing to the sides — find your fellow wall flowers. Chances are that they are in the same boat as you and would love someone to talk to. You are more likely to strike up a meaningful conversation with them than the popular person in the room.

  9. Heartbroken anon

    I’m pretty sure I need to leave my husband. He has had a litany of mental and physical health problems in the last few years and while I want to be compassionate, they have caused him to have anger management issues and basically be unable to address anyone else’s needs but his own. We have been in therapy for all of that time with very little results. Yesterday in therapy he went on saying insanely hurtful things and I didn’t want cry, I didn’t want to scream, I just… no longer wanted to be there. When we were packing up and he had left the room, the therapist told me “he means well but just can’t give you what you want. You have to consider whether you can keep going like this or whether it will tear you apart.” I slept in the guest room and am trying to process how this would work. We have been together for ten years (we met my first year of college…) and I honestly am terrified of being alone, but starting to think maybe I owe it to my mental health at this point. No kids (I want kids, he clearly can’t handle that right now, it’s caused tension). But I’m also worried about him because he no longer works and gets health insurance through my work and financial support for our living expenses through me. Not sure what I’m looking for here, just venting, maybe some wise words on how to successfully manage your separation.

    • anon

      I don’t have any advice, but I am so sorry you’re going through this. It sounds enormously difficult, and no one can blame you for wanting to put on your own oxygen mask first, so to speak.

    • AnonMidwest

      My only advice is that the saying, the opposite of love isn’t hate it’s indifference, is really really true in my opinion. i knew my marriage was done when my husband was yelling at me at full volume and I didn’t feel anything what so ever. It was absolutely the right decision for me, I’m happier, calmer and drama free since then.

    • Batgirl

      I’m really sorry you are going through this. As someone with two very young kids, I will say that having kids is a real doozy on your relationship, at least while they’re super young. Frankly, if you feel like you want to leave now, I would leave. I don’t think anyone’s relationship has gotten better when they add young kids to the mix and then it gets so so hard to leave. But you know your relationship better than anyone on this board does — do what feels right and good luck. Sending hugs.

    • Anonymous

      What you’re looking for is a great divorce lawyer so you don’t wind up paying a penny more alimony than you have to. Call today.

      • Anonymous

        Yes, don’t pay more alimony that you have to. I am not one of the lawyers here, so I’m not certain if generous alimony could disqualify him, but I would imagine that, depending on his ultimate diagnosis and whether there’s treatment for it, he may end up needing to financially qualify for services that will be much more helpful to him than the alimony itself.

    • I remember those days

      I was you! I left at 30, after trying trying trying to make things work, and finally feeling like I just was an empty shell with nothing left to give. I felt horrible guilty leaving. And my life is SO MUCH BETTER now! Here’s what I wish I knew then…

      Once I left, I would have tremendous amounts of energy. Shockingly, once I wasn’t spending 80% of my energy worrying about tiptoing around someone else, I had energy to tackle starting a new life as a divorced person, and being a good friend, and excelling at work, and and and…

      I was so much happier single than when married. And then even happier in the good relationships I found afterwards.

      I felt really guilty leaving him at the time. I now feel that we both did the best we could, but no point in wasting two lives… You’re 28 or so? You probably feel old now, but let me assure you, you have so much life ahead of you! So many years where you can grow, and bless people, and use your energy to do amazing things. In the 5 years after my divorce, I fell in love with a hobby, fell in love with a great guy, got promoted twice, met my nieces, made great new friends, and had a million wonderful things happen.

      I’m still a “good Christian” even though I’m divorced. It’s made my faith richer and deeper and more nuanced, and God and I are on great terms.

      Years later, when I at 38 decided to have a kid on my own (long story, in all likelihood you’ll be long remarried by the time you’re 38 if that’s what you want!), I realized the first decision I’d ever made as a parent was ensuring my child would only have kind, gentle, loving caregivers…and not having a child with my ex, who couldn’t have provide that consistently.

      No one at work cared when I said I was getting divorced. Actually, correction, a few people let me know they had been worried about me and were glad my life was getting better. But the huge judgment I’d been expecting from society never came. Lots of people were far kinder and more understanding than I’d ever imagined they would be, and shared stories of their own which I never would have suspected. I had really worried about this…and it was a totally non-issue.

      I know at this point the idea of leaving probably feels agonizing…. but this is the hardest part. Deciding is way harder than doing….being divorced will be a bazillion times easier than this, I promise.

      *huuuuuuuuuuuug* I wish I could give you a huge hug. Where you are is really really really hard.

    • Sorry

      I am so sorry you are going through this. I don’t have any advice from personal experience, but I would encourage you to not stay with him simply “because he needs you.” It is not your responsibility to make sure he adults. It sounds like you have done what reasonable folks would do, go to counseling, give grace through that season, and like this might just not change.

      I have been married for around a decade. While yes, marriage sometimes gets lopsided when one party is going through a difficult season, it doesn’t mean you get to write yourself off forever so that he can “be okay.” I hope you choose to take care of yourself and don’t pressure your decision with external factors like his health insurance.

    • Anonymous

      This is really hard. This is my perspective having been in your husband’s position. Serious mental illness, physical illness, and loss of employment is always tremendously difficult to go through. Traditional wedding vows say “in sickness and in health” for a reason: illness and disability is waiting for most of us if we live long enough. Life is easier without a disabled partner.

      But when people stay with disabled partners, they stay because they’re happy with them and being with them is what they want more than they want what they’re sacrificing. It’s not a kindness to stay for another reason. I’m not hearing that this is a difficult transition that will get easier or that you’re experiencing caregiver burnout or that it’s all worth it or will be someday. I’m hearing that the relationship isn’t working. If that’s the case, I think he needs to move on too.

      • Heartbroken anon

        Thanks for this perspective, and for all the kind comments above. I have tried really hard to tell myself this was a difficult transition, things would get better once his health issues were under control, etc etc. I truly believed in our wedding vows and feel incredibly guilty even thinking of leaving. He started receiving treatment in Jan 2014, has had about ten different diagnoses and courses of treatment since then, and I am so exhausted (and he probably is even more so, I realize). But meanwhile I’ve been going to work and trying to do well and setting money aside for medical expenses and retirement, and doing the dishes and the laundry and the cooking, and dealing with my own spiraling depression and anxiety, which I can’t talk about because they just add to his burden, trying to be his life coach, and putting on a brave face at family reunions. I genuinely care about him, know this is really really hard on him, and am very worried about what his future would look like without my support, especially since none of his family or friends know the extent of the situation. But I also am insanely hurt by things that have happened, things that have been said, and just can’t see a future in which we can get over this to happily start a family anymore, even if his medical condition were to significantly improve.

        • Senior Attorney

          Oh, I have been where you are. The guilt can be crushing, but don’t let it keep you in a bad situation. As someone said above, don’t let his issues ruin both your lives.

          And yes, life is so, so, so much better on the other side.

          Call a lawyer today and find out what your options are. And big, big hugs.

        • Anonymous

          I feel like I can hear that guilt coming through, and I just want to encourage you to separate out the hurt over what’s happened and what’s been said from everything else. I don’t think those things had to happen. Despite everything he’s had going on, you aren’t more responsible for the relationship than he is. And there is support out there for him that isn’t you.

    • nuqotw

      I am so sorry.

      My lawyer spouse informs me that in MD one can get a “limited divorce” which preserves access to health insurance for both spouses but severs a number of other legal marriage constraints.

    • Anon

      Get out. You will be so surprised at how great your life will be 6 months to a year from now.

      Do it for yourself. You’re living your life for him right now, and he doesn’t even appreciate it.

      You only get once chance at life. Live for yourself. This is not a dress rehearsal.

    • Anonymous

      I wish I had had the maturity to do this years ago, instead of staying in an impossible situation with somebody who needed to mature. We really did love one another but should have become adult first. I am now luxuriating in being single again although I still miss him. I respect your courage. All my best wishes.

  10. Anonymous

    I need a gut check. A guy I recently started seeing has told me probably too much about his relationship with his ex gf. They were together for 5 years and have been broken up for 1 year. He told me the ex gf had 2 abortions within the first 6 months of their relationship. He (somewhat drunkenly) lamented that he really wanted those babies and was still upset he never got the chance to meet them. He admitted it was a big issue in their relationship because he never really got over it.

    I said something like well it seems like condom use would’ve prevented this issue? Especially the second time around when you were so upset about the first abortion? Or did you not realize how upset you were until later? He just repeated that he wanted those babies and he was still mourning them. I didn’t say anything else because he was so emotional and I didn’t want to fight.

    I’m fortunate to never have needed an abortion. And I recognize that men have feelings about abortion, and those feelings are valid. Maybe I’m off base at not being empathetic enough to him? I don’t really have a lot of experience with the man’s side of things here. But I find it kind of horrifying that he seems to think he can just not use condoms and then resent a woman for her decision to terminate a pregnancy and hold onto that for over 5 years…. Thoughts about how to process this information?

    • givemyregards

      Uh…I’m sure there’s a more specific/eloquent want to say this, but if you’re looking for a gut check, mine would be bail on this guy. I don’t love talking about former relationships with my partner, but I think it is understandable, particularly at the beginning of a relationship, when someone was in a long relationship previously. But this particular topic and his way of discussing it with you would be a red flag to me. I’m not saying that his feelings are not valid, or that he may not really feel that way, but the way he brought it up to you just seems really manipulative. Like, “oh she robbed me of my chance to meet these kids when she obviously felt that the course of action she took was necessary and I apparently did nothing to change my own behavior which would have rendered the decision unnecessary.” What thing are you going to need to do while in this relationship that he’s going to give you grief about and never be able to let go? Wouldn’t be something I want to deal with at this point in my life.

    • Suburban

      He doesn’t respect the bodily autonomy of women. Even women he purportedly loves. Consider what would happen if your life were at risk due to pregnancy and he “really wanted” a baby.

      Separately, it’s a red flag that he’d share this information about his ex.

    • Anon

      Break up with this guy. Seriously. Talk about inappropriate boundaries and control issues.

    • LAnon

      I feel like this is a remarkably callous response to him sharing a deeply emotional issue. If he’d had a child that died in a car accident while not wearing a seatbelt, would you reply, “Well it seems like better driving and a seatbelt would have prevented the issue”?? (I’m not saying a fetus is the same as a child, just that you’re offering a very unfeeling response.)

      From what you’ve described, it sounds more like he and his ex had some communication challenges about whether or not they were ready for kids – perhaps he wasn’t too concerned about using condoms because consciously or unconsciously, he really wanted to have a family.

      I think you should find a time to talk about this when he’s sober and apologize for your initial response, since you were a bit surprised. And then try to understand more about his feelings. Perhaps he’ll say that he really wanted kids, felt like it could be his girlfriend’s choice how to deal with pregnancies, but really struggled with that.

      You’re making some rather unkind assumptions about this guy – if you think so poorly of him, maybe you shouldn’t be dating anyway.

      • Anonymous

        I like this reply best — this is a really delicate and complex area.

        I don’t disagree big-picture though — the second abortion in six months suggests that these two both had a lot of undone learning and responsibility issues. I think that but I wouldn’t have said that.

        Also, Lifetime used to have a genre of movies where the exes had taken the kids away from the wife and how that unhinged her. I can’t imagine how different life would be if someone else had the final say on carrying a child that was mine (maybe with surrogates / gestational carriers).

        • LAnon

          Ugh, I know. I knew as I was writing it that it was a little over the top but I couldn’t think of another good example of “giving a unemotional and technical retroactive solution to a complex and emotional past issue.”

      • OP

        Yeah I take the criticism. He was pretty unhappy about my response, understandably. There’s more to the situation that I didn’t share – he told me a LOT about their relationship and it’s pretty clear from an outsider’s perspective that these two people should never ever have children together, particularly not within the first 6 months of their relationship – when they were both still married to other people, both struggling with health issues, and had rushed to move in together after like 3 months because they were each either homeless or imminently homeless. Like this is not a situation to bring a child into how on earth can you be resentful of her making this decision considering everything she was going through at the time? And hindsight is 20/20 – he says the relationship seriously deteriorated and got really ugly at times, why are you, today, still resentful that you don’t have two children with this person? I just don’t get it. But again maybe that’s a failing on my part because I tend to be more logical than emotional.

        • That's the flag ^

          More than the abortion issue, the fact that he would do all of the above is a HUGE flag (within the past five years or so).

          • Anonymous

            OTOH, my husband had a disasterous abusive marriage to his ex. She routinely hit him, had a spending problem that cost them their house (and almost cost him his job after she went shopping with his corporate card), and threatened to falsely claim abuse to get him thrown in jail and win custody of their son. I’d never choose to bring a child into that world, but I know despite how that relationship wrecked him, he 100% would have mourned the loss of his son forever had his ex aborted him like she would threaten to.

            Kids and parenthood, even with the wrongest of partners, is wildly complicated.

        • Anon

          OP, read that paragraph you wrote. This guy is a mess for a thousand reasons. Value yourself here, and find someone worthy of your time.

        • LAnon

          Yeah it sounds like this guy has a lot of issues! So I can imagine it’s a lot to sort through. On this particular issue, I think it’s important to keep in mind that sadness and regret aren’t always logical – he can recognize that it would have been a terrible situation to bring children into, know that they made the right choice, and still have some feelings of grief about it.

        • anon

          Omigoodness. This is far too Jerry Springerish. I do not know you but cannot imagine how you could not be deserving of more than this guy.

        • Senior Attorney

          Ugh it sounds like you don’t respect this guy, for good reason. I say DTMFA.

      • anon

        “it sounds more like he and his ex had some communication challenges about whether or not they were ready for kids”

        Well apparently he knocked her up twice within the first six months they were dating. Calling that communication challenges about whether they were ready to have kids is a bit generous.

        “perhaps he wasn’t too concerned about using condoms because consciously or unconsciously, he really wanted to have a family.”

        This is SUPER gross. Again, the first six months. You don’t get to be lax about birth control because you really, really want a family when you haven’t agreed on that with your partner. Gross gross gross gross.

    • anon

      Run. There are lots of issues on his side that you don’t need to guide him through.

    • Vicky Austin

      This is not your fight to fight. He needs therapy/a space to talk out these issues (during which process he may come to realize the fact that his behavior was a factor in his gf’s abortion decisions), but you are not his therapist and do not need to help him along in that process unless you really feel committed to him. If you don’t feel committed to him, you should feel no bones about letting him down kindly “to focus on himself for a while” and leaving.

      • Vicky Austin

        But also, the timing of her abortions is kind of concerning. She had two in the first 6 months of a five year relationship. That sounds like either he didn’t control himself and she was left playing catch-up, or they didn’t talk about what constituted safe and appropriate s3x for their relationship. If that kind of irresponsibility checks out with what you already know about him, get out of there. (To say nothing about the possibility that he coerced or manipulated her.)

    • Anon

      Do you actually know that he was not using condoms? Nothing in your posts suggests that he said that he wasn’t, and lots of people get pregnant even when using condoms.

      Regardless of the answer to that, I think we often overlook and ignore guys responses when their significant other gets an abortion. I’m no in way suggesting that a guy should have the right to control whether his partner gets an abortion, but I don’t find it surprising that a guy would have regrets. If you otherwise like him, I would talk to him when neither of you are drinking about this. If it is a normal level of regret – i.e., I wonder what those kids would be like, I was ready to start a family, etc. – I would not consider it a deal breaker.

      But you are entitled to have any deal breakers you want, and this could be one of them.

      • OP

        Re whether he was using condoms – yes he said he wasn’t. That’s kind of how the conversation came up. He was… almost bragging?… that he’s so fertile the pill and shot don’t work against him because his ex got pregnant on both and had two abortions. I said you weren’t using condoms? He said no he didn’t want to. But he was so sad about the abortions, wanted to meet the babies, etc. That’s when I said but then why weren’t you using condoms the second time? He was offended by that comment and didn’t answer, he just said he wanted the babies.

        • Vicky Austin

          Bragging that he got past birth control to conceive babies she didn’t want to have? Ew. He gets therapy, you get out.

        • Suburban

          Almost bragging??? Op, this guy is a mess. He was close to homeless having unprotected s#x, cheating on his spouse with a married person, now he’s spilling incredibly intimate health info on his ex, getting drunk and bragging about his manliness. I don’t think this is a good guy.

        • anon associate

          This horrifying. Babies are not puppies. He’s talking about them like they’re toys he wants, not a reasoned decision in light of your other posts about the state he was in. He’s bragging about being fertile? Sounds like a) not wanting to take responsibility for his poor choices or b) breeding k*nk (it’s a thing) and/or c) ego wrapped up in virility. Look, bottom line is this guy does not sound like he’s in a good place for a relationship and has a lot to work through. You deserve better.

    • Anon

      Do you know he didn’t use condoms? Because birth control fails. Also I don’t think he’s not respecting the bodily autonomy of women. He didn’t try to prevent his ex from having an abortion, just said that he grieved for the loss of his potential children, which I think is normal. I’m pro-choice and have had an abortion (birth control failure in colleg) and even though I knew it was the right choice (I was so young and not serious about my BF at the time) it was still very sad and I grieved. And I was the one who made the choice. I can only imagine how sad I’d have felt if my partner got pregnant and had an abortion in a situation where I wanted to keep the child. That doesn’t mean he’s anti-choice or disrespecting women. You can understand that it’s the woman’s choice to make while still feeling sad or disappointed about the choice she makes.

      • Anonymous

        But imagine this dude’s privilege. He never had to make a tough choice. He just gets to criticize the person that did. Of freaking course he wishes he had a five year old kid today. Someone else (the gf) would have had to carry and give birth. Someone else would probably have been forced to pay child support (presumably the husband of the gf who would have been the presumptive father (putitive father?) for child support purposes (this dude was sick and nearly homeless). Sounds great to me. Who wouldn’t be sad to miss our on that? And the best part is he can get drunk and blab this story all around town drawing sympathy. He is also putting the ex in jeopardy knowing full well there are right wing folks who would like to see women like you and her jailed or worse.

    • anon

      Ugh. Setting aside any debate about the morality of abortion/the role of a man’s opinions on whether his partner should have an abortion….sounds to me like he is not in a good place to date and needs to process this. I once dated a wonderful man who was simply not over his 7 year relationship with his ex. He was not ready to be with me and the way your guy is describing mourning a life he did not get to have reminds me of that. I would not want to be in a relationship with a person who is mourning the loss of children with an ex. He’s mourning another life which he will never get to have, and which you will never be a part of. While he’s fixated on this, he will never be completely emotionally available to you. If it’s as simple as he failed to use condoms (twice), then that’s irresponsible. But I suspect that the situation was probably more complex than just irresponsible gardening multiple times. Which means more unresolved emotions for him. This is probably just the tip of the iceberg. (The cynical side of me is wondering why exactly a woman had two abortions in 6 months*… and why this guy managed to knock up a woman who doesn’t want kids *twice* in the *first* six months of their relationship, and why he really really wanted kids with a woman he had been dating for only a few months. Yikes.)

      *Not that there’s anything morally wrong with it, but it is pretty unusual.

      • anon

        “While he’s fixated on this, he will never be completely emotionally available to you.”

        yes, this.

    • Anonymous

      Honestly, two accidents in the first six months of a relationship like that makes me feel kind of judgey. Maybe it was a long time ago, whatever, and maybe they were truly weird mistakes like condoms broke and the morning after pill failed both times, realistically probably not, but there’s a kind of irresponsible personality trait some people have that I can’t stand. Some people are not critical thinkers. I would have responded the same way.

    • Anon

      DTMFA
      Seriously, these are the comments and actual red flags we excuse and ignore.

      • Anonny

        Agree – OP get out now. Be thankful you know this now before you get (more) emotionally invested. Red flags are blessings!

    • Falstaff

      The abortions are a red herring. This guy is using you for free therapy, and you should run.

    • Anonymous

      RED FLAG. A guy who says or implies he’s ready to be a dad, knowing his partner isn’t ready or doesn’t want to be a mother, I don’t think fully appreciates the upheaval motherhood is to a woman’s life, at any age. That speaks volumes about what kind of partner he is and what kind of father he would be in the future (if you’re interested in that).

    • Anon

      Run run run run run run

      This guy is an all around train wreck, and not in the cute Amy Schumer way.

      What are you thinking? Wake up!

  11. Panda Bear

    Oh no… comments were going so well for me since the redesign, and now I’m back in moderation!!!

  12. Running gloves

    Recs for good gloves to wear when jogging in the winter? I am currently just using my standard wool Uniqlo gloves, but it can get a bit sweaty. Is there something that wicks but still keeps me moderately warm? Bonus if I can also use a touchscreen with them on.

    • givemyregards

      I have a pair of northface running gloves that I like, and friends have recommended brooks. But mine don’t work with touchscreen – Tracksmith has a pair that does, and I like a lot of their other gear, but they’re a bit $$$.

      • Running gloves

        I’ve never heard of Tracksmith, but glad you mentioned them as they are local to me and I always like supporting local businesses! Their gloves also don’t seem too much more expensive than what I can get online. Thanks!

    • Anonymous

      I have and like these: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B004GVKB4E
      They are not that warm – my hands are a little cold when I start out, and I might wear another layer if the temp was under 25 degrees F or so.

      SmartWool liner gloves are also an option; they have some that are touchscreen compatible.

    • Honeycrisp

      I just bought a pair similar to these from Costco:

      https://www.costco.com/HEAD-Men's-Multisport-Touchscreen-Glove%2c-Black.product.100428847.html

      I wore them at a Turkey Trot where the temperature was 26 degrees (fahrenheit), but it felt like 16 with the wind chill. My hands were warm the whole time, and I didn’t have to take my gloves off to use my phone. My cousin, who had a much more expensive pair of running gloves that didn’t keep her hands warm, was jealous.

      • Kk

        I have two pairs of the womens version of these from a few years ago. I find that they are great insulators- if my hands are warm, they keep my hands warm! However, I need something different for daily wear around town- they will not make my cold hands warm. They are great for running, but not for walking.

  13. Anon

    Trip idea. Looking for a place to go with 8 adults, 2 children next summer in the US. Not a beach destination or cruise (this trip is for someone’s birthday who does not like the beach) or further west than Colorado. One adult is in a wheelchair, and is not necessarily looking to participate in activities, but to have a pretty place to sit outside and to be in a ‘walkable’ town where you do not need to get in the car to grab coffee, eat lunch, etc. We were thinking Vail, CO but we’ve all already been there and are trying to find some place different. Any suggestions?

      • NOLA

        New Orleans is not a great place to visit in the summer (sooooo hellishly hot and humid) and the sidewalks are decidedly NOT wheelchair friendly.

        • Lilly

          New Orleans is a great place to visit but the sidewalks can be challenging for even a flat shod, sober person. I would hate to think of trying to navigate a wheelchair there. What about Asheville, downtown? Especially if the person in a wheelchair considers a rooftop indoor/outdoor area a pretty place to sit. Or, the Grove Park Inn has a veranda that people drive to the hotel to sit on it and enjoy the view.

    • anon

      I was all set to suggest Vail and then I saw your last sentence. I know you said no further west than Colorado, but Park City is also a nice mountain town and there are lots of direct flights to Salt Lake City. You could also consider Santa Fe.

    • Anonymous

      Acadia? Bar Harbor is walkable and there are plenty of places to hang out outside that are accessible to someone in a wheelchair.

    • Em

      If you are open to another Colorado mountain town, Estes Park, CO checks all your boxes if you stay someplace in town.

    • anon a mouse

      Mackinac Island, Michigan would be a good option for you. Or Cape May, NJ.

      • anon a mouse

        Sorry, I just realized that you don’t want a beach. I’ll throw Asheville NC into the mix, then.

  14. Knife Set for MIL

    MIL wants a knife set for Christmas, but the caveat is that it needs to be dishwasher safe. This seems to “not exist” in that no one recommends you put nice knives (or knives, generally) in the dishwasher. Any suggestions?

    I don’t mind spending a lot on this gift because she’s lovely and she’s also rocking a 10+ year old Pampered Chef set that is mostly mismatched at this point. I am less concerned about how long the knives will last with them being tossed in the dishwasher, but more so about rust. I know that can be a problem (and quickly show up) with nicer sets, so I’d love any anecdotal evidence on which sets can withstand this wear and tear. FWIW, she doesn’t cook all that much, so not super worried about quality/lifetime sharpening, etc.

      • Scarlett

        I use these too and love them – they’re a million times better than my fancy hinkle set.

      • Lobbyist

        I have these knives too and I love them and I regularly put them in the dishwasher.

    • Anon

      Try finding non-plastic and non-painted handles (plastic splits in dishwasher; paint comes off). I have some wood handle and some partial hollow metal handle knives that do well in the dishwasher. Get her a knife sharpener along with the set. That solves all the problems a dishwasher can cause (handle wearing and dulling).

      • Anonymous

        Wood in the dishwasher, really? Doesn’t it become totally parched? I’d expect it to split eventually.

        I think there is dishwasher-safe plastic. I put the colored knives recommended above in the dishwasher without trouble.

      • MagicUnicorn

        Wood deteriorates incredibly quickly in the dishwasher, and hollow metal handles eventually fill with water then leak that nasty dishwater on your food and your hands during use.

        OP – I have a micro-serrated JA Henckels set purchased back in the late 90s from BB&B or Kohls or some such store. It has black plastic/resin handles and they get run through the dishwasher daily. No fading, no rust, no warping, all joints are strong and stable. The knife blades run up through the handles (which makes for a stronger overall knife that lasts longer) and I store them in a knife block so the edges do not become dull from rattling around in a drawer together. In general, high-quality stainless steel knives shouldn’t suffer from rust problems unless they are being mishandled. Once in a while I see a little surface rust dot, but it wipes off with my finger or a quick buff with a kitchen towel.

      • Anon

        Agreed that a lot wood deteriorates quickly in the dish washer but my wood handle knives of unknown origin are going on 20 years with zero issues.

    • Flats Only

      I have a 20 year old Henckles set, which have been through the dishwasher frequently, and they all still look fine and sharpen up nicely.

  15. Personal articles insurance

    Do you keep personal insurance policies forever? I’m not sure I care anymore about the jewelry I’m insuring anymore.

    • anon

      I paid the annual premium on my engagement ring for over 20 years but finally stopped. For one thing, we could financially swing replacing it. For another, although I wear it every day, it was simply a far bigger deal to me at 23 than at 49. :)

    • Anon

      I replaced my jewelry coverage with a burglar alarm. So far so good! (Several years in)

  16. SR

    Looking for ideas and suggestions: My boyfriend of 3 years and I have been talking about getting engaged. We both agreed that he’d get me a token ring and then we’d pick something out together that I love. The trouble is: I don’t know where to start! I think my style is pretty simple and classic so I was thinking maybe a solitaire? Or a cluster of 3 stones? But then what kind of metal? Platinum / white gold / rose or yellow gold? I wear both gold and silver jewelry generally and I think they both look good on me as I have dark skin so how do I decide?

    As for the rock itself – I’m pretty sure I want a diamond but beyond that I have no clue! I don’t have strong opinions about square / round / princess / other cuts. Should I? Google says this is personal preference but I feel a bit lost on where to start. I think our budget will be around $5000 or less. Should I just go to a store and try on a bunch of rings? I live in a large northeastern city.

    Please help!

    • Mrs. Jones

      Yes, just go to a store and look at rings. Google is correct about a ring’s being up to your personal preference. Enjoy!

      • Senior Attorney

        Yes, just try on a bunch of rings. I always thought I needed a delicate ring on my small hands but when we actually went to a store I ended up with a chunkier design, which I love but would never have picked out from a catalog or the internet.

    • Veronica Mars

      Definitely try on rings, you may be surprised what you like. Have you considered Moissanite? It’s a fraction of the price of a diamond, and depending on the cut, can be nearly indistinguishable (some cuts, like the round brilliants, throw off more rainbow fire, but some are very close)(and for that note, some cuts are awful like their “princess” which looks odd). One thing that really helped me pick was that I ordered a cheap digital caliper (like $10 on Amazon) and a whole bunch of stones from Chris CZ (diamondcz dot co dot uk). For your budget with a diamond, I’d look in the .7ct range (about $3.8k for the stone and leaving $1.2k for a setting). That will put your center stone size between 5mm and 6mm (.5ct to .84ct). So I’d order from them the following: 8 Hearts and Arrows Round (size 5mm, 5.5mm and 6mm, as well as throw in a 7mm and 8mm if you’d consider moissanite — get these sizes in the colorless). Now go ahead, same 8 hearts and arrows, and get a WARM (K-M) 6mm round. OK, those are your core diamond sizes. Now, get a few speciality cuts. In your budget, I’d stick to around 5 or 6mm for a round stone (if you want to get one of the Old European cuts, I’d do 6mm OEC #4). Then get any of the following that interest you: 5.5mm princess, 6.5×4.5mm Emerald, 6mm Cushion, Oval, Pear, Rose cut, etc. etc. Now get a loose stone holder from Amazon or eBay for $4. (They look bizarre, but they work). So for under $50, you can look and examine all of those different stones in person, without getting pressured by a salesperson. I was surprised at what types of stones I liked in person, and which sizes I liked on my hand. I also was surprised at how little color sensitive I was. I really didn’t mind a K-M colored diamond. But that may bother you. From the CZ experiment, you should be able to tell what size, cut and color you like. That will help immensely. I also really liked being able to try on different sizes over and over again to see what I really did like.

      • Anonymous

        I have a moissanite and everybody thinks it’s a diamond (this is dependent on the grade/clarity/cut of your individual stone, though.) I wanted a clear stone but past that, it was just important to me to have an ethical stone. And moissanite is one of the hardest gemstones next to diamond so it’s great for everyday wear (I unfortunately have emerald as a birth stone, not so great for everyday wear.) I tried on a couple rings but ultimately ended up with a round solitaire with pave that goes halfway around the band.

        So there’s nothing wrong with diamonds if that’s your preference, but, if you’re open to alternatives, you may have a lot more room in your budget to play with other aspects of your ring if you consider an alternative stone (or other aspects of your wedding, because, in comparison, hooooooo boy…)

        • Veronica Mars

          Agree x100. Especially because if she does consider ordering some of the stones, she can see in person the difference between a 5mm stone and a 7 or 8mm stone, and realize it’s 1/4 the price.

    • anon

      Yup, you need to go to a store and try on a bunch of rings. I’d actually recommend not looking online at all. At that price range, don’t buy something without looking at it and you may or may not be able to view a ring you are pining after online in an actual store.

      Take your bf with you! If you find something you like, he can come back later for it and surprise you with a proposal. You don’t even need a token ring.

    • Anon

      Check out vintage rings – mine is an Art Deco era diamond ring. I love them – they’re all unique designs at this point and many are low profile, which I prefer for every day wear. I also like that you can’t figure out what era I got married in based on my ring.

      • SR

        This is partly why I was leaning classic but this is a great point which I hadn’t considered. Thank you!

        • Anon at 10:25

          They’re also often a lot more affordable because they don’t focus on a single stone as much – often more flat constellations of stones for lack of a better description. 5k can get you a really pretty ring.

          • Katie

            Yup, I’d have considered a vintage ring if not or the fact that we had some family stones available for us to use. If you have anything in your family to work with, might be worth delicately asking about (or for him to ask his family). Vintage rings are unique and aren’t contributing to the conflict/blood diamond industry.

          • Senior Attorney

            Yes. I didn’t want to have a blood diamond and would have gone for a Moissanite if DH hadn’t had a family diamond available.

      • SW

        +1 to vintage rings! I wear my fiance’s great-grandmother’s ring. It’s beautiful, timeless, and definitely low profile.

    • busybee

      Agree with everyone saying to try them on in store. I knew what style I wanted (6 prong round brilliant solitaire) but I was surprised when trying them on that I preferred a smaller stone than what we thought initially. I personally went with platinum due to the durability. You may want to also consider how a wedding band will look next to the ring–some settings (for example, the classic Tiffany solitaire) will require there be a small gap between the two rings. Some people don’t like that, others don’t mind it.

    • Anonymous

      Isn’t ring shopping the part that follows getting the question and the token ring? At that point, you and your fiance can go to stores and try things on to see what you think looks good on your hand/suits your personal style — and pick something out together, like you said.

    • Anonymous

      I agree with everything that’s been said about trying rings on. To answer your question about white gold/yellow gold/etc., I went with a mix. I love to mix metals, and the watch I wear every day is white and yellow gold, so I went with a white gold engagement ring and a yellow gold wedding band. I love how they look together, and it’s fun to wear them separately sometimes too.

    • Annie

      Yes go try on in several stores – it’s so fun! My now husband and I did it together and had a great time.

    • Anon

      Hi, me from a year ago.

      My fiance ended up picking something out because of how beyond clueless I was. (Requirements: white gold and a smaller diamond that wouldn’t ge banged on things too much. In fact, I was also open to other stones.) I have a lovely round-cut diamond ring in a trellis setting, and… having no real preferences, what my beloved picked out for me is special.

    • Ms B

      Go try on to figure out what you like (stone, shape, cut, metal), then head to Pricescope for good advice on the technical end of things and on how to maximize your quality to price ratio.

    • Anon

      Go to a local jeweler with a full bench, not a mall jeweler, and try on some rings. It’s a fun day! And a good jeweler will understand if you are just trying to decide what style you like. If you feel a lot of sales pressure, leave. But you’ll get less with a local jeweler than a mall jeweler because they are trying to build lifelong relationships – beyond the engagement ring.

      • Anon

        I also agree on vintage rings, which is what i have. Local jewelers often stock both new and estate jewelry so it’s a 2 for 1 visit.

  17. Gift Suggestion Thread

    I have some extra time today while waiting at doctor appointments and like coming up with gift suggestions for difficult gift people. Comment with anyone that you are stuck on with gift ideas and I will come up with some suggestions. -Puddlejumper

    • My mother-in-law

      She has a lot of fussy opinions about food, doesn’t drink coffee, tea, or alcohol of any sort, and thinks candles are a fire hazard. She doesn’t like the theater or the movies or museums. She also maintains that she has enough stuff. But she really, really likes to unwrap things at Christmas.

      • Puddlejumper

        – Slippers
        – An inside herb garden
        – A fancy weather thermometer
        – A calendar featuring her favorite band from her youth
        – A beautiful puzzle from one of her favorite places in the world
        – Depending where she lives – a bocce ball set, croquet,
        – A framed picture of her family / pet
        – A barefoot dreams blanket
        – Does she travel? – a luggage scale, a new luggage tag, travel containers for cosmetics, a cool usb charger battery, travel pillow, etc
        -Reusable shopping bags
        – Does she have any heirloom quilts? We once turned an image of a circle from one of my grandmother’s quilts into a necklace pendant

      • Anon

        My dad: He’s retired, splits his time between a beach condo and the northeast. He does a good amount of volunteer work and spends a lot of time on the beach (walking, relaxing- he’s not a big reader). He’ll watch movies and tv (but already has a good sized movie collection and subscribes to Netflix, etc). In the past, we’ve gotten him exercise attire, movies, and/or wine, but are always on the hunt for something else that’s not a gift card. He has everything he needs for the beach, has nice headphones for the flights between the beach and northeast, and doesn’t have many hobbies beyond what I described above. Any thoughts?

        • Puddlejumper

          -Donating to one of the organizations he volunteers at? Like finding something you can buy for that organization might mean a lot to him
          – Have you see the company Best Made? They have a ton of well made items to maybe take something that he has already and get him a nicer version
          – Would he be into stars? Or birds? There are some really neat phone apps that you could download for him to identify the night sky or bird sounds
          -Is there a local state park that you could get him a pass to to go walk at?
          – Sonos speakers to improve the listening of his movies/tv
          – A bird feeder for either home
          – A whirly pop to make delicious popcorn while watching his movies

          • Anon

            Thanks! We got him a portable speaker a few years ago, actually, and he looooved it and bought himself several more lol.

            Love the whirly pop and state parks ideas, thanks!

      • Rosamunde

        Not Puddlejumper, but I have similar difficulties shopping for my mom so I’m getting her a selection of at-home spa items. I know her favorite scents, so I’m doing dissolving shower tablets (she doesn’t do baths), fancy body lotion, a healing foot cream with spa socks, and probably something else that I haven’t found yet all in scents she loves. It’s pretty much all consumable and I can wrap it separately so there’s plenty of stuff for her to open on Christmas.

    • Rosamunde

      Boyfriend pretty much buys anything he wants/needs for himself. I try to give sentimental, meaningful gifts, but I’ve run out of ideas. Favorite gift I gave him in the past was a set of books on a topic he loves. I wrote him a little note inside each cover and he absolutely lost his mind about how personal and special it was. He does most of his other reading on a Kindle, works in a tech industry so has all the gadgets/devices you can think of, and doesn’t really value alcohol-related gifts. He’s learning to cook, but recently bought himself a bunch of cooking stuff to try out, including sous vide equipment that I had in the back of my mind as something that would make a good gift. He’s gotten pretty into sustainable initiatives lately, so I was trying to find something along those lines, but I’m coming up blank. Thanks for your help- it’s so sweet of you to offer!

      • Puddlejumper

        Reusable ziploc bags or Pyrex containers if he is into eliminating plastic
        Travel straws
        A State Park Pass to go on hikes and adventures together
        A collapsible cup for water/coffee: Stojo S2-IND Silicone Collapsible Cup
        What about high quality cooking ingredients for him to cook – like pantry items or subscription for nice meats (some local farms you can buy part of a whole cow/pig to share with others (its like a meat co-op) which is more sustainable) or a CSA subscription (also a gift of sustainability)
        Compost container if he is cooking more and into sustainability
        A cooking class for you to take together
        A collection of your favorite recipes for you to make together
        American Giant makes American made apparel and just created the first all American made flannel shirt in like 20 years. What about a really high quality shirt that is made by people who are working in good conditions .

        • Bewitched

          Puddlejumper, you are so good at this~ I’m wildly impressed! I do want to mention that Vermont Flannel has been making high quality American made flannel shirts for 25 years. They also have all kinds of other flannel-pj pants, nightgowns etc. Not cheap but very well made!

          • Anonymama

            Vermont Flannel makes the shirts in the US, but imports flannel that has been woven in other countries. The New York Times just did a big profile on American Giant and how difficult it was for them to get the flannel woven in the US, because the factories that knew how to do it all closed down decades ago, so the expertise just wasn’t there anymore. They basically rounded up a bunch of old guys who knew the old industry really well and figured out how to adapt the limited resources available.

      • Annony

        How about a painting made from a favorite/special photo? Lots of really talented artists on Etsy and elsewhere can do this.

      • Em

        Would he be into a meal delivery service, such as Sunbasket or Blue Apron? I think they even have ones that focus on sustainability. A lot of them use recyclable packaging, locally sourced ingredients, and obviously there is a focus on minimizing food waste because they send only the exact amount of the ingredients you need. My husband and I both greatly improved our cooking skills by using Blue Apron for a year.

      • HM

        A Food Saver is a great tool for sous vide cooking, if he doesn’t already have one.

      • Puddlejumper

        Maybe a hockey tie if he has to wear those to work
        Tempur-Pedic sleep mask – if he has to sleep at work ever
        Snacks for long shifts – like great quality jerky and dried fruit and granola
        An ID holder that has his hockey team on it
        A winter hat, socks , phone case or a travel coffee mug with his hockey team image
        Would he want to go skating? Does he play hockey? Maybe a gift card for ice time or new equipment?
        A goal for his driveway so he can be a kid at home and practice his shots

    • My dad

      Plays golf but has all the stuff and then some
      Lots of back and leg pain – got him acupuncture but he never used it
      Buys his own clothes and books
      Technophobic
      Doesn’t do much else
      Drives a nice car
      No hats, ties, sports team shirts/gear or other dad stuff – he has WAY too much of it
      Does not cook
      Does not garden
      Does not travel
      Does not drink beer (or much alcohol ever)
      Does not do anything that one could buy him a “man crate” for
      Is not handy
      Does not grill
      Not a wineophile
      Likes football, hockey, baseball but does not want to go to games
      Thought about getting him private Tai Chi lessons. Out of ideas.

      • Senior Attorney

        One of those “be race car driver for a day” driving experiences? I think all the major luxury car brands have them (at least the European ones).

        • My dad

          Ha, good idea but he’s also mostly metal from the waist down, so not sure he could get into a racecar!

      • Puddlejumper

        Does he live somewhere cold and could benefit from an ice/snow scraper that warms up?
        Would he like a car magazine to come every month? Or one about sports?
        Snack box monthly subscription? Or a hot sauce of the month subscription?
        A book about baseball: https://www.amazon.com/Baseball-Americana-Treasures-Library-Congress/dp/0061625469
        Cordless vacuum for his car?
        Portable Jump Starter or some other safety kit for his car
        A Storyworth account so he can share his stories with you in a book
        CDs for his car with his favorite music
        The umbrella that folds so it doesn’t drip so the inside of his car won’t get wet?

      • Em

        Would he use a TENS unit on his back or leg? My husband is obsessed with ours.

    • Anon

      Father-in-law. Retired and disabled (and mildly depressed). Just your typical American heartland guy. His only hobby is bird-watching and he has all the guides and birdhouses a man could use. He’s just started to get into beginner woodworking. As a family, we primarily give money to charity for Christmas and just exchange token gifts around $30 or less.

      • pugsnbourbon

        Oh, I might be able to help with this one! If he’s starting woodworking, maybe a donation to a reforesting initiative and a gift card or kit from Rockler?

      • Puddlejumper

        I know you said he has a ton of bird books but this one is different: Sibley’s Birding Basics: How to Identify Birds, Using the Clues in Feathers, Habitats, Behaviors, and Sounds
        -Bird jigsaw puzzle
        -playing cards with birds and a cribbage board?
        – Wood Working Book: https://www.bestmadeco.com/products/the-woodbook
        – Dart board
        – Kubb game – this is if he has others to play with
        – Candy from his childhood
        – A DVD of his favorite cartoons from childhood
        – A kite
        – A weather station
        – I find magazine subscriptions great for this type of person – because if they are depressed its something new showing up in in their mailbox every month. A birding magazine? Wood working magazine?

      • Anonymous

        A few woodworking magazines with project ideas and instructions? Magazines are a bit more accessible, and easy to just recycle if his woodworking interest doesn’t last long. My husband has tons of woodworking books that never leave the shelf but the woodworking magazines get planning notes scribbled on them, get carted to Home Depot to choose materials and actually make it into the workshop.

      • HunyBdgr

        ~ Saw this wood Iphone case which would be really nice for a person who likes woody things:
        https://www.etsy.com/transaction/1535174483

        ~ Download the free Merlin ID app onto his phone/Ipad to identify birds:
        http://merlin.allaboutbirds.org/

        ~ You said he had all the birdhouses he needs, but does he have a baffle to prevent squirrels from climbing the pole? Ours has lasted a decade and does the job. So fun to see the squirrels thwarted!
        https://www.amazon.com/Woodlink-NABAF18-Audubon-Squirrel-18-Inch/dp/B0010QD5QO

    • Cookbooks

      One my closest friends. She’s Parisian and very much has that “French Girl”aesthetic. Not much of a drinker, not into exercising and isn’t outdoorsy beyond walks with her kid, no interest in sports. Her skin/beauty routine begins and ends with mani-pedis. She likes things new and very modern (prefers to live in newly constructed building, anything else is not good enough), but she doesn’t buy too much for her place because her toddler gets into everything. She travels a lot to Europe and the UAE and most of what she wants, she prefers to get there. She does like movies (but gets everything on demand/Apple TV), food (they eat out as much as they can), and likes to cook, especially for her son who has food allergies. But I’ve never seen her use a cookbook. She works A LOT. She has pricey tastes, but I don’t make as much as she and her husband do. I’m more than happy to babysit and dogsit, but I’d like to get her something. Preferably $50 or less.

      • Puddlejumper

        Maybe something from Clare Vivier or Cuyana would be up her alley?
        Cashmere socks for travel
        A beautiful keychain?
        A gift card to Alamo Drafthouse for an amazing movie watching experience and you will babysit the kid when she goes with her husband
        Mud Australia makes beautiful pottery. What about some pickle dishes with some tasty pickled things.
        Delicious snacks for her next airplane ride – like really good chocolate
        A magazine subscription so she always has something to read when traveling
        What about a gift she can share with her child? Like matching aprons so they can cook together?
        A gift from London Tea Club – so she has delicious vials of teas to take on the flights with her because airline tea sucks.
        A fancy eye mask for her long flights
        A CSA flower subscription?

        • Cookbooks

          I really like the keychain idea. She is forever misplacing her keys or mixing them up with her husband’s. Useful and pretty…thanks so much!!

      • FormerParisian

        Parisian abroad here – here are some things I would like:
        – french cosmetics (Nuxe or Caudalie) gift set – I get that she might get them in France but always nice to have, although it sounds like skincare may not be her thing?
        – a cookbook to cook my favorite recipes from home (Julia Child’s Mastering the Art of French Cooking? The French Market cookbook by Clothilde Dusoulier is a more modern take which might be good for food allergies. Or My Paris Apartment by David Leibovitz – part memoir, part recipe book, with a funny and insightful take from an American in Paris). Or go another way with something typically American she might not be familiar with (no ideas here, up to you!)
        – Dytique candle (realize this is above budget unless you get the small one, or one of those scented blocks to put in your closet which smell amazing)
        – Assortment of nice french foods (macarons, Mariage Freres tea, Maille Mustard, fancy jam, whatever)
        – If that doesn’t work, I really like experience-type gifts, even from friends – dinner and a movie? A mani-pedi date at her favorite salon?
        Hope that helps!

        • Cookbooks

          My Paris Apartment by David Leibovitz looks beautiful! I’ll check this out. Thanks :)

        • Cookbooks

          I would never have thought of that. And a quick search suggests there are a lot of options. Thank you :)

      • Anonymous

        I’m similar to your friend (but not Parisienne) and love getting small, practical, consumable luxuries as gifts. A Voluspa scented candle, a Fresh lip balm, a L’Occitane tube of hand cream. That plus a babysitting voucher would be aces for me!

        • Cookbooks

          Oh, a Fresh lip balm or L’Occitane tube of hand cream would be good! Especially because they’re little things she likely wouldn’t buy herself. Thank you!!

    • Anon

      Ooohh do me, do me! Trying to figure out something for my sister-in-law (I handle gift-giving for my husband’s family and he handles other stuff for me in exchange)… She has a ton of cats, an old horse, lives in a small Midwestern small town, loves estate sales and vintage knickknacks. She’s kind of a hoarder so I’d rather not get her home decor. Not really into food or sports, doesn’t drink, doesn’t work out, not into makeup or clothes, not into books, and is just generally really hard to shop for!

      • Puddlejumper

        -Crafts you can make with cat hair? https://www.amazon.com/Crafting-Cat-Hair-Cute-Handicrafts/dp/1594745250 – KIDDING kind of
        -A tree ornament with a note that you donated to an animal shelter
        -A phone case or a custom travel coffee mug with an image of her pets on it
        -Antique Roadshow book? https://www.amazon.com/Antiques-Roadshow-Behind-Scenes-Insiders/dp/1439103305
        – A thrifting “kit” – quarters in a cute coin purse for kids lemonade stands, sunblock, snacks in case you get hungry shopping, yummy smelling hand sanitizer after looking at old dusty stuff, a measuring tape to know how big the thing is that you are purchasing, a pretty mug or tumbler to keep drinks cold/warm with a giftcard for the local coffee shop of choice on thrifting days
        – A jigsaw puzzle with a favorite image of cats or horses
        – Friday Night Lights DVD set because thats always a hit with everyone. Who doesn’t love some Tim Riggins in their life?

    • Anon

      My sister is plus sized and works weird hours as a nurse. She likes coffee and Kate spade but I feel like she has a lot of stuff related to that already. I’m stumped.

      • Anon

        Budget up to $100, by the way, for the sister-nurse. I would prefer to get her something she wouldn’t buy herself. Her husband buys practical, bargain basement gifts, so my gift is often the nicest thing she receives.

      • pugsnbourbon

        My sisters in law are both nurses. In the past I’ve gotten them really nice hand creams – all the washing and sanitizing dries them out. Other ideas are Dansko clogs – $$$ but great if you’re on your feet all day, or compression socks – they make ones in cute patterns now.

      • Puddlejumper

        Barefoot Dreams Circle Cardigan – It breaks your budget a bit but its such a cozy luxury
        Tempur-Pedic eye mask for sleeping at weird hours
        Comfy slippers – the Dakota Ugg ones are 100 bucks exactly
        Nice quality hand lotion
        Pretty phone case (Kate Spade)
        Custom clip board or ID case holder or id chain if she is a nurse who uses these
        Face Masks
        Tweezerman Tweezers
        A cozy bathrobe
        Tickets to a concert
        Earrings she wouldn’t buy herself
        If you know what scents she loves: an expensive candle, bath soaps
        Materials to do gel nails at home

      • Anon

        Thanks both, if you’re still checking! I broke the budget and sent her a barefoot dreams cardigan from Nordstrom and some wild patterned compression socks from Amazon!

      • Anonymous

        I vote Ugg slippers – they are just the best for putting tires feet into and are a lovely little luxury.

      • HunyBdgr

        For the coffee loving nurse, have you see Figs Wear? Its a medical clothing line but its not the usual boring blues and greens Or weird chili patterns. Its nice and durable. I’m not a nurse, nor in the medical field even but I use their
        stuff.
        https://www.wearfigs.com/

    • Anon

      These have all been so good! I expect I’m too late! But… husband works in finance. Have two young kids and a third on the way so that’s what we do with much of our free time. We tend to get sports tickets through family. He plays golf but always gets golf related gifts from his FIL. Travels for work every other week. Interested in urban planning and cities. In our younger days we liked restaurants and exploring said cities. Basically an early 30s dad!

  18. Anonymous

    Has anyone been to Scandanavia for vacation? I went to Iceland for 10 days and loved it, so I’m looking for something similar for next summer. I was primarily focused on Norway, but should I try to see other countries too, maybe Sweden, Denmark, and/or Finland? From what I’ve read on travel boards, it seems like it’s doable but requires an awful lot of flights. I don’t want to deal with an airport like 6 times in 2 weeks. I’m cool with driving, though. It’d be a solo trip. Anyone have any experience they’d like to share? Thanks!

    • Anon

      I don’t think it requires more flights than elsewhere in Europe. You can fly between major cities. I love Norway and Sweden. I think they have more to offer outside their capital cities and I looove Stockholm, it’s my favorite Scandinavian city by far. I’m much less enthused about Denmark although I know a lot of people who love Copenhagen. In Finalnd, I’ve only been to Helsinki and it was only for one day. I liked it, but didn’t feel like I needed more time there. I would love to go to Lapland though.

    • BabyAssociate

      I’ve been to Iceland, Norway, and Finland (note that Finland is not Scandinavia). Both are gorgeous, very easy to get around, and people are very friendly. My only caveat is that Norway is pretty expensive, Finland is less so. If you go to Finland, be sure to also take the ferry across to Tallinn. It’s only 2 hours and is well worth it. I’m not sure where you’re coming from, but if you’re on the east coast it definitely shouldn’t take more than 2 flights to get to Oslo or Helsinki. I did both on Icelandair with a super short layover in Reykjavik. Definitely go!

    • Anon

      I did a 3 week trip to all those countries (plus Iceland and Estonia). It was a lot of flying, and in retrospect I would have picked two of them to stay in longer. My favorite was Norway- you can start in Oslo, then head out to Bergen (there are various options to get there, but our trip included a 2hour cruise through the fjords- I think we went through Norway in a nutshell). The fjords and Bergen were beautiful, and I wish we had spent more time there beyond just 2 nights.

      Stockholm was also lovely, and we spent a day to take a ferry out to one of the nearby islands. If I were you, I would do a week in Norway / Bergen, and a week in Stockholm (with day trips to the various islands).

      Have fun!

      • Anonymous

        Can I ask how did you like Estonia? It’s on my list, but I seldom hear from anyone who has been.

        • Anon

          I loved Tallinn. We were there for just 3 days, but I thought it was a good amount of time. It’s a fun city to walk around, had good food, and was relatively cheap. We did a day tour to the countryside, which stopped at a beach, an old monastery, a tavern that had been operating for hundreds of years (or maybe the building had been there for that long?), and a few other places.

          In tallinn, there’s an abandoned prison by the water that you can walk through (which in the US would be a total hazard and closed to the public- but was a very unique visit!). Lots of pretty parks and churches. We were there in August, and the weather was great for meandering around the city.

          • Anon

            I was talking about Patarei- too bad it’s closed! But plenty of other things to do in Tallinn :)

          • Anonymous

            Thank you! I’m happy to hear you loved your stay and that the food was good. I’m encouraged to look for my own opportunity to visit.

        • BabyAssociate

          Tallinn is beautiful, would highly recommend. Old Tallinn reminded me of Prague with far, far fewer tourists.

        • anon

          I also loved Tallinn! Don’t miss it. It’s really charming. I actually liked it much more than Helsinki. It’s so easy to get to from there.

        • MJ

          I went to the Baltics for my bar trip. If you want to do Scandy, I recommend Stockholm–so much to do and see, very hip. I haven’t been to Norway, but it is extremely expensive (but incredibly scenic also).

          Re Estonia – I loved Talinn. I adored Vilnius (Latvia). Riga was less impressive because most of it had been bombed out and recreated. Tallinn was very medieval and cool, but also had extremely modern parts. Vilnius was baroque, but also had some much older parts. Both of them were exceedingly charming and picturesque. I went in August-Sept. Both trips were great for kids (castles, etc.)

    • Vicky Austin

      I don’t think it requires too many more airports than home base in the US, perhaps a layover in Iceland, Oslo, Stockholm/Copenhagen/Helsinki. Second BabyAssociate’s recommendations to try the Baltic states too – I did a little hop from Stockholm to Riga, Latvia, when I lived in Sweden, and I adored it. The flight is like two hours. If you want to explore way up north, you might get into more airports. I lived in Umeå, Sweden, which is eight hours by train north of Stockholm, and went to Kiruna (other side of the Arctic Circle) with friends – another NINE hours on the train one way. I am not joking. So if you want to go from one end to the other, fly. You’ll thank yourself.

    • Anon

      Do you mean it requires a lot of flights to get there from your city, or to get around while you’re there?
      It typically takes me just one connection in Amsterdam or Frankfurt from my East Coast city. I fly into one (say Stockholm) and out the other (say Copenhagen). You can take the train between Stockholm and Copenhagen, Oslo and Bergen, etc. There are ferries from Stockholm to Helsinki if you’ve got time. Bergen going north (eg Alesund) are also served by ferries. I don’t drive in foreign countries so I can’t tell you how that’s like. I get around fine using transit modes. What will you do in Norway? Passive sightseeing or outdoor activities? The Norway in a Nutshell route is often recommended, and which I took, but I found that it’s more for passive tourists who like to watch sceneries go by outside the train window. I’m not a camping/sleep in a tent kind of person at all, but I enjoy day hikes and being outside, which I had but not nearly enough. So if I had a do over, I would skip the crowded NiN and dreary Oslo altogether, and spend time out in the west, starting from Bergen and moving northward. This requires more logistics because of connecting ferries/buses but should be doable.

      • OP

        Yeah I meant dealing with airports while I’m there. I don’t want to be in and out of airports every couple of days – it’s such a time and energy drain. I also find airports to be very stressful. I’ll happily drive for 5-6 hours to save myself a 1 hour flight, for example.

        I’ve driven all over Iceland (Ring Road), Ireland (the whole island), and Scotland (Highlands) by myself, so I’m pretty confident with solo road trips in foreign countries. I was hoping to make at least Norway a road trip. I’d like to drive to a nice little hiking area, poke around trails for the day, and then drive back to my very comfortable hotel room at night. I’m not a sleep in a tent kind of person, either. Thanks for the feedback about NiN – I was looking at that but it sounds like I might not love it.

        • Anon

          The Norway tourist department have a list of “scenic”routes that might fit the bill. You can buy the maps of these routes. I believe they have vistas and points of interest listed out along the way. I was looking at driving one from Bergen but couldn’t verify the driving time from Google (it kept giving me conflicting timelengths) which was crucial because I wanted to make sure I could do it in a day. If you like hikes definitely stay in the west. So pretty.

        • January

          I did a 10-day road trip around Norway with my parents as a kid. I don’t remember enough of the details to be of any help with the logistics, but I do believe they used one of those itineraries. Norway has spectacular scenery, and I think you could have a fantastic trip just traveling around the one country.

        • JB

          I was in Norway for 10 days this summer and would highly recommend as a roadtrip. A couple of things I wish I knew:
          1. The country is VERY expensive (and I live in NYC) for food, lodging, and rental cars
          2. Outside of the major cities there are very few places to eat. I would have planned better for bringing snacks along the drive, stopping at grocery stores and planning to cook more meals. One day we couldn’t find a place to get lunch after driving through a number of small towns, we ended up at a small grocery store around 3 pm.
          3. Consider renting a camper and sleeping there.
          4. Driving long distances was much easier than I anticipated. I was nervous about managing the logistics of the car ferries, but they ran fairly frequently, so we didn’t have any trouble.
          5. We hit three or four of the scenic routes. Would highly recommend and they have neat rest stops.
          6. Oslo was “meh” except that I was so thrilled for good coffee and nice restaurants

        • Coach Laura

          You could easily take only ferries, with or without a car. There’s also a train from Oslo to Stockholm that has great views. Or you could start in Copenhagen. Take a ferry to Stockholm, then to Helsinki and then to Tallinn. No airplane required – and the views on the ferries are gorgeous in the summer. Explore the cities on your own or rent cars when you want to explore farther. Loved Tallinn, Copenhagen, Stockholm and Helsinki.

  19. Whitepages

    I’m single and live alone, and my job involves aggravating a lot of men who have criminal backgrounds. I do not want to be easy to find.

    I g00gle myself pretty often, but only just now noticed my listing on Whitepages. I was horrified to find that the free version, accessible to anyone, included my correct full home address, full names of family members, and a phone number that happens to have changed about a year ago but easily could still be my current cell phone number. It also listed 3-4 correct cities where I have lived in the past. I immediately did their “opt out” process, but now when I look myself up there it appears that all my info is still there, just behind a paywall. Obviously I am not planning to pay Whitepages just to confirm that they are still broadcasting my info to anyone willing to pay. Has anyone dealt with this successfully? What am I supposed to do?

    • Anon

      Can you do your job under another name? I know people in lines of work like this who do that. It’s easier to control than the internet.

      • White page s

        No, I have a state-regulated license and have to practice under my real name. People are entitled to verify my credentials, submit complaints about me etc.

        • Anon

          Okay, this might be extreme, but if you intend to stay in this line of work, I would look into ways to disappear online, things like only using real name for work and registering things that don’t matter under other names, up to changing my name legally to something generic. If you’re a lawyer, I’d also consult your state bar ethics office to see if there are options for your situation – it may not be as black and white as it seems.

          • Anon

            You can form an LLC pretty cheaply and put your house in the LLC’s name. Someone can still trace the LLC, but it’s unlikely anyone in the pool you are concerned with will put that much effort into it.

          • Anon

            I keep seeing this suggestion. Don’t do this until you look into the additional administrative costs and check with your lender and insurance company (and possibly a lawyer) first. And transfer taxes in your state/locality.

    • Anononymous

      I don’t think there’s any way to get this info down. Invest in a good home security system.

    • E

      At least in my state, addresses are public information via voter registration records (though you need someone’s birthday to look it up). I agree that working under an assumed name may be the way to go here.

    • Anonymous

      For your address, something you could do depending on if you own is quitclaim the house to a trust, either a living trust or a land trust. If I recall correctly, land trusts are more anonymous (at least in my state). If you move, buy your next house as a trust so that you are not publicly listed as the owner.

      • Coach Laura

        Yes, have your home or rental in an trust, an LLC or a friend/relative’s name as the tenant. Then only use a PO Box for mail or for anything where you use an address, never have packages delivered and don’t give out the address to anyone. You could even start now on the POBox and slowly erase everything else over time.

  20. buying health insurance?

    Just wanted to say thank you to those who answered my question about health insurance yesterday. I feel so much better, and have things to research and suggest now.

  21. Anon

    I’m really, really having trouble getting over feelings of inadequacy in my relationship. I don’t have these feelings in any other area of my life (platonic friendships, professional setting, etc.). For some reason, my internal narrative about my relationship is terrible. I always feel as though I must not be as *insert desired quality here* as I should be, or as my partner’s exes were. Partly, I think this is because my ex was quite hard on me in some ways at the beginning of our relationship, and I’m not able to let go of the hurt that it caused. And partially it’s because I really believe some of the negative self talk is **true**, which is why it’s hard to dismiss. For example, I might think “I don’t know what I’m doing” or “I’m awkward sometimes” with relation to “gardening”, and that actually, is kind of true – I am much less experienced than my partner and much less experienced than past partners he has talked to me about, and so I can’t really dismiss this one when it pops to mind. I have talked about all this in therapy but I still cannot dismiss these narratives when they come up. Any suggestions?

      • OP

        Yeah, he honestly was hard on me. In the beginning, I wanted to move more slowly than him (in terms of how often we’d see each other). He was critical of that. In terms of gardening, when I would ask for direction or try to talk to him about some of my feelings of uncertainty (during a neutral time, not in the moment) I wasn’t met with compassion but with more « it’s not rocket science » type attitude. When I talked to him about past abuse, it was sort of « well I’ve dated past partners who have also been abused and they haven’t been like you, they’ve been normal ». Etc. I’ve talked to him about how these reactions have really affected my confidence around him and he is just « that was months ago you need to let it go ». I want to let it go, but I honestly can’t.

        • cbackson

          Wait, for clarify – your ex said these things, or your current partner? This stuff is pretty horrible (the statement about people being “normal” breaks my heart for you). If it’s an ex, I’m completely unsurprised that you’re carrying some hurt from these conversations. If it’s your current partner…honestly, is he different now? Because these statements reflect a lack of compassion that I find worrying. You do not deserve to have someone talk to you this way.

          • OP

            I made a typo in my original post – yes, it was current boyfriend. He is trying harder now to be compassionate, but I am still hurting about some of what was said really early on. I sort of have feelings of humiliation and they’re proving hard to shake.

          • cbackson

            Honey. They are hard to shake because what he said to you was awful, and unless he has engaged in a full-scale, Hallmark Hall of Fame Christmas romance grovel, apologized for being a total and complete a$$hole, and subsequently been an unfailingly caring and supportive partner, I suspect he still says awful things to you. You have feelings of inadequacy because he is trying to make you feel inadequate. Maybe you’re prone to it, and he’s exacerbating it.

            The problem isn’t you. No matter how much he makes you feel like it is (which is what he’s doing above). The problem is absolutely and unequivocally him. This isn’t normal. You deserve someone who will not treat you this way.

          • Anon

            Whaaaaaat you are still with this person??? Those are seriously awful things to say to one’s romantic partner. HE is the one who is not normal… Please please leave him. You feel inadequate because he is making you feel inadequate. There are other people out there who will treat you like the wonderful person that you are.

    • Anonymous

      If he’s been discussing details of past gardening with you and comparing you to those people, maybe he’s just a jerk. It shouldn’t really matter if you’re experienced or not. There’s also a difference between someone suggesting things they like vs negatively talking about the things you’ve done together. If you think you are justified in feeling hurt about the way he talked to you, maybe the solution is to break up.

    • Anonymous

      Have you talked to your partner about this? It’s not his problem to solve but i think it’s important for him to know that certain things bother you. Like talking about exes that way? No gross why. I also think he could really help you to build your confidence. Ask him to be more vocal about what he likes. When you’re feeling awkward or uncertain, ask him for guidance. Feedback is important for everyone regardless of experience level – everyone is different! And continue to work in therapy to find your voice and communicate about these issues.

    • Ellen

      I can’t stand men who think they are so “experienced” in bed. For all that expereince, they are now with us, expecting to penetrate (which we should not let them if we are skeptical of their histories), so don’t let them convince you they are really that hot. If they were, wouldn’t they be with Katy Perry? Of course! FOOEY on these men!

    • Betterandbetter

      I’m not usually a person who goes right to DTMFA- but geez DTMFA.

      I think if you want to be charitable you can view “it’s not rocket science” as a (clumsy) way if indicating that gardening isn’t a big deal as a way to make you feel better or less anxious. I think gardening is great but am not particularly emotional about it thus far but I had a ex who super duper was and I would occasionally have the thought “wow- you are putting a lot on this” (I kept this thought to myself) But if I understand correctly that it’s the current partner that compared you unfavorably to other survivors of abuse and suggested that your response is not “normal” or that you are not “normal”- well Lord Jesus DTMFA.

      I am not particularly emotional about gardening as I said-but I believe that anyone who gardens with me regardless of our relationship status deserves kindness and generosity, but to have that kind of callous response from someone you describe as “partner” and to whom you have disclosed trauma is beyond the beyonds. You deserve better.

    • anon

      Are you sure you don’t have these issues (albeit to a lesser extent) elsewhere in your life?When I was in your position, I ended up realizing that I had an all around inadequacy issue, but it just happened to be triggered by relationship things at that point in time and may be in general more easily triggered by relationships for me.

    • Senior Attorney

      Do not stay with somebody who is or has been mean to you. I stayed with a guy like that for 15 years and OMG when I finally left him and got together with a kind man it was such a relief!

      He is doing this on purpose to build himself up and it is not going to get better. DTMFA.

    • Anonymous

      The intimacy in your relationship should make you feel safe and happy. Assuming a monogamous romantic relationship, that intimacy is the one thing that you can get from your romantic relationship that you can’t get anywhere else, so don’t compromise on it. No matter how wonderful he is the rest of the time if he’s a jerk in bed he’s not worth having. DTMFA.

  22. Board Games

    Any recommendations for 2-person board games? Or games that are fun for everyone, but still really easy to learn? I’m trying to find some easy activity options to offer family over the holidays.

    • Rosamunde

      Ticket to Ride and Settlers of Catan are both easy to learn and popular, but I’m not sure if they’d work well with 2 people. Citadels is also a fun option with a lot of re-playability value (there are a bunch of variations so you aren’t playing the exact same game 50 times). Dominion is a classic that’s easy to pick up and is fun with just 2 people. The instructions say 13+ but I’ve seen kids as young as 8 really enjoy it, if that’s a concern.
      I’d also look at some classics- there’s nothing like seeing my grandmother whip everyone’s butt at Scrabble and Pictionary is always good for lively entertainment!

    • Anonymous

      Apples to Apples! Easy to learn, fun for any size group, can last as long or as short as you like. The Junior version is appropriate and fun for all ages.

    • Anonshmanon

      6 Nimmt and Ligretto are both super fast to learn card games, and work well from 3 to 8 people (if you get 2 complementary boxes of Ligretto). A single game is only 5 or 10 minutes but it stays entertaining for hours, so it works well between meals, with a house full of chaos. Truly enjoyable for adults and kids, who are old enough to know numbers to 10 for Ligretto and to 100 for 6 Nimmt.

      Dominion is more strategy based, great for 2-4 players.

      • pugsnbourbon

        Was also going to suggest Dominion. Once you get the hang of it, there’s tons of ways to change it up and it can get pretty fast-paced.

        • anonshmanon

          lol, I wouldn’t have said fast paced. My family members always take their time thinking up hilarious schemes, but it works for us!

    • Rainbow Hair

      I love playing Mancala with my husband. It’s just interesting enough that it remains fun (to us at least!) but not so absorbing that you can’t talk about other things while you play. And games are short so you can play a lot of games, which is more appealing to me than settling in for one long game.

    • Anon

      Seven Wonders Duel is great! (Seven Wonders requires I think at least 4 people, but Seven Wonders Duel was designed to work better with less people). I also really like Guillotine, which works for 2-5 people.

    • Squash Blossoms

      My favorite 2 player only games:
      Lost Cities
      7 Wonders Duel
      Vampire Empire
      Battle Line
      Patchwork
      Morels

      Easy to learn party games:
      Sundae Split
      7 Wonders
      Dominion
      Code Names

      • anonshmanon

        I also love Code Names. Don’t quite agree that 7 Wonders or Dominion are party games/easy to learn, unless your party is a board game night with board game peeps.

    • Annony

      Pyramix is really easy to learn and great for 2 people. Othello, Mastermind, Racko, Yahtzee, all super easy/2 people fun. For super easy + extra kid friendly, Slapzi is great.

  23. Cat

    Suggestions for narrow-calf (13 or 13.5″ leg circumference) boots?
    Wish list:
    -Black (either leather or suede)
    -Flat/low heel, knee high
    -Sleek in style (so: no thick sole, stacked heel, slouchy material, cuff at top, or large belt/buckle features)
    -No obvious logo a la Tory Burch/Michael Kors
    -Budget $200-$300 but willing to wait for a F&F sale or similar, so probably really up to $400 full price

    • Anon

      Aquatalia. I’ve seen pairs discounted to your price range at Saks Off Fifth before but at that point I didn’t need another pair. Check their website.

    • Anonymous

      Blondo makes one pair of boots that would be really perfect for this – it’s the type with the pleated/gathered/ruched leather at the back. The calf is really narrow and sleek because the leather is meant to stretch to be form fitting.

  24. White page s

    I’m single and live alone, and my job involves aggravating a lot of men who have criminal backgrounds. I do not want to be easy to find.

    I g00gle myself pretty often, but only just now noticed my listing on White page s. I was horrified to find that the free version, accessible to anyone, included my correct full home address, full names of family members, and a phone number that happens to have changed about a year ago but easily could still be my current cell phone number. It also listed 3-4 correct cities where I have lived in the past. I immediately did their “opt out” process, but now when I look myself up there it appears that all my info is still there, just behind a paywall. Obviously I am not planning to pay White page s just to confirm that they are still broadcasting my info to anyone willing to pay. Has anyone dealt with this successfully? What am I supposed to do? (Weird spacing trying to get through moderation)

  25. anon

    Anyone have any recommendations for Bogota and Medellin? Heading there in March with a couple of friends. Especially interested in museum recommendations, great food, and good walking neighborhoods.

    • BabyAssociate

      Bogota: Museo Botero and Museo del Oro. Don’t miss Montserrate, you can either walk up or take the funicular. Masa is a fantastic bakery for breakfast and definitely go explore the Mercado de paloquemao, go early to catch the flower market!

    • LAJen

      Tabula in Bogota and El Cielo in Medellin were both FABULOUS. El Cielo has a several-course meal during which–I kid you not–we washed our hands in chocolate and coffee. Medellin has great little bars and cafes around Parque Lleras–Burdo was amazing, and the patio at La Bronca on the corner near Burdo was delightful for people watching and cocktails. Definitely visit the murals in District 13/Comune 13, and ride the innovative gondolas. Boteros everywhere in Medellin.

  26. BRCA1 and Fertility

    Maybe a shot in the dark, but has anyone here dealt with making fertility decisions in the shadow of testing positive for BRCA1 or other genetic factors that increase risk of breast and ovarian cancer?

    I’m 28, married, and recently tested positive for BRCA1, which greatly raises my risk of breast and ovarian cancer. My husband and I had previously agreed that we want children, but hadn’t planned to start trying until 2020. Now I feel tremendous pressure from my genetic counselor and doctor to start trying and complete my family ASAP, because they’d like to remove my ovaries as soon as I’m done using them for reproductive purposes (ideally before I’m 32!). I’m feeling totally overwhelmed, and having trouble thinking logically about all the options (including not having children and proceeding with risk-reducing surgeries soon) and risks involved. I’m planning on talking with my therapist about this issue, but I feel like it would be so helpful to hear from other women who have faced this circumstance, and I’d be so grateful if anyone was willing to share their experience.

    • Cat

      Check out the blog Carolina Charm — she had a preventative double mastectomy in her late 20’s IIRC (had lost her mom around the same age due to breast cancer). She had two kids beforehand (they are around 15 mos apart). While it doesn’t speak to the ovary aspect, she included a TON of helpful information re: the mastectomy. Sending hugs for this hard situation!

    • Fleur

      Not directly, but I have a relative who did. She was diagnosed with breast cancer in her 20s. They froze her eggs to preserve her ability to have children after treatment (I’m not clear on all the timing there). She also had the BRCA1 mutation and they did genetic testing on the embryos to remove any that had the mutation. They have several children now. Controversial to be sure, but she was adamant that she wanted the cancer to stop with her.

    • Anon

      In case this helps – I had a friend who also has the gene. She decided to freeze her eggs, do the genetic testing on them, and then do IVF, after which she would have the surgery. Not sure what this looks like for you, or what doctors are recommending, but she waited until she was mid-/late 30s for the entire process. Consider getting a second, or third, opinion. You’re lucky that you’ve found a life partner who you want to have children with. Sometimes having a healthy pregnancy can take awhile so you could always consider moving your timeline up a little bit.

    • Anon

      I would do what others have suggested. Get some eggs, then get your ovaries removed. Test the embryos and choose BRCA1-less embryos for implantation. Have children on your own timeline.

      I realize someone said it’s perhaps ethically muddy to choose embryos based on genetic testing but this is not like choosing for skin or hair or eye color. This is eliminating cancer. BRCA1 is no joke. If you have the means to have a role in eliminating it / not passing it along, absolutely do that.

      Hugs to you in a tough situation.

    • CecilyC

      I’m sorry to hear about this difficult diagnosis. My best friend also dealt with this — she had two kids through IVF and removed her ovaries shortly thereafter. Since you are partnered, consider embryo freezing rather than egg freezing — better success rates. There are risks to taking the IVF stimulation drugs for women at risk of breast and ovarian cancer — talk to your doctor

  27. Anonymous

    Can’t talk about it IRL – have seen a cardiologist for years for monitoring of a condition. Had some symptoms recently, went in and fully expected he’d say – yeah we’ll keep watching, as he’s been saying for 10+ years. Except he recommends – a monitor be implanted for a few years to see what’s going on. Intellectually I know it’s NBD – it’s something they do in the office in 10 min with skin numbing meds. And I don’t HAVE to do it – he recommended it knowing I’d be reluctant. Yet IDK – cranky all day yesterday, inexplicably woke up at 4 am this morning (usually can barely make it to work at 10) and now exhausted due to 4 hours of sleep and am overall just “bothered” — not worrying per se but mind just wandering. Haven’t told my parents yet because I know they’ll freak out and ask 1000 questions etc. I know this is NBD – how do I shake this??

    • Anonymous

      Well, it IS a big deal! Not the procedure itself, but what it must represent to you. That’s why you can’t shake it. Try sitting with that for a bit and see if you feel better when you accept how you’re feeling, instead of trying to chase it away.

    • Anonymous

      You don’t shake it. You went in thinking you’d hear NBD, and you heard, “Might be a deal.” You acknowledge that you’re disappointed That you’re concerned. That you’re tired of all this after 10 years. That you’re anxious. That you upset at having to deal with your stuff plus all your parents’ questions and anxiety, and field their reaction to all this.

      FWIW, I’m sorry. I’m going in for some heart tests today, myself, and I’d prefer this not be any part of my life. And i haven’t even been dealing with it for 10 years, like you have.

    • Anon

      I don’t know if this helps you but i also have a cardiac condition. In my case, it’s congenital (i was born with it) and it just got worse with age. It’s not lifestyle related but I feel like if I tell people things like”i was in the ER for a heart problem”
      Or “I’m having heart surgery” they look at overweight me and think it’s something I brought on myself. Are you struggling with this?

      The solution I came up with, because I couldn’t really keep it all to myself, was to tell people I care about what was going on, including the backstory, and not to tell people I don’t care about. “I was out for medical reasons” kind of thing.

      I also found it daunting and scary to deal with, especially since in my case it got worse as I got older, and there’s also some interaction with my autoimmune illness… but all you can do is find the best specialist you can, get a second and third opinion if you’re unsure about the advice, and then go for it. My last surgery was a rousing success and I’m so relieved!

  28. London Recs

    Going to London for work next week and will have some down time. What are the best things to do? I’ve been before and done all the touristy things, but am hoping to find some holiday-ish, limited opportunity types of things to enjoy in December.

    • MJ

      Here are some touristy things you might not have done:

      – day trip to Oxford or Cambridge
      – Sir John Soane’s museum
      – Cabinet War Rooms
      – Visit the meridian at Greenwich Park
      – Get lost in the V&A (it’s huge–like the Met–you can’t have seen it all)
      – Go to the flower market in Shoreditch
      – Walk the entire Portobello Road in Notting Hill on Market Day
      – Go to the cliffs of Dover
      – shop in Marylebone or Chelsea instead of Oxford Circus/Regent St areas

    • Puddlejumper

      Don’t know if you are still checking this but if you leave your email I can email you a whole list of December specific London activities. Its one of my favorite times to be there!

  29. anon for this

    Anybody worked in Hong Kong? Will be spending a fair amount of time working there in the new year and could use guidance on formality of dress in large law firms. My current (biglaw) firm is business casual, so I’m trying to figure out if this is a “bring all the suits” situation or if business dresses, pencil skirt + blouse, etc. are acceptable.

    (Tips on fun stuff to do as a tourist as well as any advice on working there would be helpful – particularly how important it is to try to learn some basic Cantonese.)

    • Manageress

      I have never worked in Hong Kong, but have a lot of family there and have visited often. Professional settings tend to be on the dressier side of business casual, so I would start off first with suits, and then dress down as appropriate. Sheath dresses with jackets could also be a good option. Note that around Jan/Feb, it can still be a little chilly and windy in HK.

      If my family’s finance orgs are anything to go by, be prepared for all the top designer names and people dressing up in big law, so not too different from big law or i-banking in NYC or London.

    • MJ

      HK is both dressy and label conscious, as noted above. I have friends who worked in London and HK. I would bring _some_ of the suits, but know that tailors are reasonable and you can get some really lovely custom suits made! Fun!

  30. anon

    So, this is a dumb problem, but I really don’t enjoy board games or card games at all. I can stand it for maybe an hour, tops, and even that’s pushing it. I find games tedious, boring, people take them way too seriously, I don’t enjoy setting gaming strategy, etc. I am not open about this at all, because it’s like announcing that you kick kittens in your free time.

    But. Several of the (non-optional) holiday gatherings I will be attending over the next few weeks will have hours-long game fests. How can I gracefully bow out of playing them? Or is there an alternative I can propose? Usually, I try to play for awhile, but I would love to be able to spend time with grownups without the gaming being a focus.

    • Anon

      Same, I hate them too. I’d prob just go for the social part and leave when people start playing games.

    • Anonymous

      What about a puzzle alternative? In my family and among my friends, people divide into two camps when we play games: those who play the game, and those who chat and do a puzzle in a separate room or at another table. Only half of the people at the puzzle table actually participate in the puzzling, but it’s like a designated spot for grownups, basically. So, maybe bring a puzzle along.

    • Anon

      My family loves cards and scrabble and I am not into either of those things. Sometimes, I’ll volunteer as scorekeeper, so I can hang out and chat while they’re playing, or other times, I just tell my family that I’m not interested in playing, but I’ll hang out and read a book or whatever in the same room so I’m still part of the event. Obviously, this doesn’t work if your companions are so into the game that they can’t chat. In that case, maybe proposing games with a shorter time (like an hour, if that’s all you can stomach), and then transitioning to something else (movies? bowling?). Unfortunately, if you’re the only person who doesn’t like games, you might get outvoted – but hopefully by suggesting alternatives, a few other non-gamers can speak up and join you in doing something else?

    • Anonymous

      Would anyone at these parties be open to Apples to Apples or Cards Against Humanity or something similar that isn’t really about strategy?

      • anon

        One group plays Cards against Humanity. It’s better than other options, for sure. I can play along for a while, but it requires a loooot of alcohol.

        • Vicky Austin

          I think for CAH especially the appeal is in the ~edginess~ and once you’ve played a couple times or turned 20, you don’t care about that as much.

        • Anonymous

          True, but at least when my group of friends has a game night, that’s the game that the people who don’t like games are playing, so we’re going through the motions and humoring the enthusiastic gamers, but we’re mostly just hanging out and talking about anything but the game.

          But I guess that only works with a group who’s committed to not playing. :)

    • Anon

      This was my ex’s family, and I felt so awkward about it, because clearly it was a huge part of the holidays for them. I always used this time to help out in the kitchen – dishes to be washed? Tablecloths to laundered or ironed before/after the big dinner? Heck, silver to polish? Sign me up!

    • AnotherAnon

      I feel the same about games, but I don’t think it’s a dumb problem. I don’t invite people over to my house to watch me knit; why should I be subjected to the same treatment? I’ve tried the following strategies with some success: play the game for a while, then bow out (I usually lose because I don’t understand the rules) and go play with the kiddos. Bring a puzzle and work on it by myself (others who secretly hate the games may join you – then you can quietly chat together…about how lame games are). Also +1 to Anon at 12:30 who says to just leave when the games start. That sends a firm but socially acceptable message that you don’t enjoy the activity but doesn’t ruin anyone else’s fun. YMMV but you could also propose a drinking game: I suck at these even more than strategy games but at least enjoy the activity. Alternatively, could you be more open about not wanting to play games? You might be surprised at the number of people in the group who are just doing it to appease the others/host. Maybe you could split off and people who don’t like playing games could just chat?

      • Anonymous

        Bowing out can go a long way if even a few others are also not feeling it. Typically, the people playing the game just want the minimum number of players to make the game fun. They will forget about you once they’re playing.

      • anonshmanon

        An invitation is not a summons. Go, don’t go, offer suggestions for other activities, but ‘sending a firm…message that you don’t enjoy the activity’, really?

        • Anon

          +1 Seriously, how rude do you have to be to want to send a firm message that you hate what somebody else enjoys?

          • Anon

            And also, being an adult human who participates in society means occasionally you have to do things you don’t like to do. Either suck it up for the sake of your social relationships or just don’t go at all. But don’t expect somebody else’s party to be catered to your every preference.

    • Mrs. Jones

      Read a book, do a puzzle, watch TV (on mute). Just being in the same room is good enough for most.

    • Anonymous

      People play games to take the pressure off making conversation. If you want to propose an alternative, it would have to be some kind of activity that your crowd can get into. That’s… kinda hard to do in someone else’s home, but you can 100% do it if you’re hosting. Maybe making something – gingerbread houses or decorating cookies? making ornaments or some other decoration? Or do a cookie or ornament exchange? Or a fancy make your own holiday cocktail bar? Have a couple of sample recipes and fun fixings.

      • Senior Attorney

        Or a non-game game like Left, Right, Center, which has zero strategy at all. It’s just pure luck but it is super fun and great as an excuse for sitting around talking and laughing.

    • Tired

      Maybe you can find a group/party game that you might enjoy and bring that? I think games that involve a lot of strategy like Settlers are so painfully boring I want to stick a pencil in my eye, but I love group games like Apples to Apples.

      • Rosamunde

        Or maybe a less competitive, more involved game like Heads Up? I agree with Anonymous above who said people like games because it takes the pressure off of conversation. Maybe go with a game that will get everyone a little more comfortable socializing? A few years ago my aunt had everyone send her two truths and a lie about themselves and she set up a game based on that. It was a good mix of conversation and some family history thrown in without any real competition.

    • Anon

      Sounds awful. I’d tell people you can only stop in for a bit (you’re busy! You have a fabulous life!) and then decline to participate when you get there due to your limited time.

    • Colette

      You are my wife and my family loves card games. Our strategy is that she plays on my “team” and sits next to me.

      She generally has zero interaction with the game and instead just chats with everyone, drinks, re-fills snack bowls, etc. Sometimes she will chime in to good naturedly tease people or to celebrate when we won a round.

      People honestly don’t really notice and if they kindly offer to join in on her own so that she’s not left out, she just says that she’s still learning the rules (five years on and and still leaning gin rummy…)

    • lemon

      Can you bring a coloring book and color instead of playing the game? Offer up pages to anyone else who wants to join you — I’m betting others would be tickled to color while chatting instead of gaming.

    • anon

      My husband is a complete engineering nerd patent lawyer who refuses to play games that do not involve physical movement. He’s athletic but I’m pretty sure he could be a master bridge player if only he had the inclination. I also grew up with a mother who loves telling people how much she hates Christmas. We are Christians, living in the Bible Belt, for reference. Totally get the kicking kittens reaction! Seriously, playing games is not a prerequisite for a great or social life. :) I’m that way about holiday decorating. No matter how beautiful, there’s something about the addition of seasonal decor that looks messy to me.

  31. Rainbow Hair

    Y’all might be tickled to hear: I find myself going to a !!! surprise !!! deposition today (communication errors that will be corrected) and I’m wearing…. an LJ.

    TBH my whole outfit is pretty office-biker, and I’m not mad about it.

  32. Bagged

    I would love ideas for a giant bag or backpack I can carry into my open concept work environment that: (1) is big enough for a trip to the gym and daycare drop off (I hit both without a trip back to the car); and (2) doesn’t require I carry the entire thing all day in the open office. I’ve looked at a few hiking/travel packs that have zip-off day bags…but I’m not thrilled with the look. I do have access to a locker during the day, but can’t store anything overnight. TIA.

Back to Top

About

Work with Corporette®

Serious Stuff

work fashion blog press mentions