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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Richmond Pants

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

The Richmond pants from Boden are a classic, but there are some new, gorgeous colors this season. They have a super-flattering straight cut, functional front pockets, and just a touch of stretch — plus, they’re machine washable!

They come in the traditional black and navy, along with bright coral, frankincense, and this really pretty “heath” color, pictured.

The pants are $110 and come in petite sizes 2–12, regular sizes 2–22, and tall sizes 2–22.

This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!

As of 2024, we think the best work pants for women include longtime favorites such as Nic + Zoe, Theory, NYDJ, J.Crew, and M.M.LaFleur — as well as trendy brands like Spanx, Favorite Daughter, and Everlane. For budget-friendly styles, check Quince, Old Navy, and Amazon seller Tapata.

the best work pant for women, overall: nic & zoe
Nic & Zoe
one of the best affordable women's work pants: quince
Quince
some of the best black work pants with a flare
Spanx
A woman wearing black pants, gold sandals, and a white top
NYDJ
one of the best women's work pant trousers
Theory

Sales of note for 12.5

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

336 Comments

  1. Kat, I love the model’s pants, and I think we all wish we had a flat stomach like her. But we are now older and we should also consider stretch pants that allow for our tummies’ growth over the years. Rosa has a flat tummy (and tuchus) but she is the only one in my family who does. That I think is because she works out with a personal trainer 3x a week, and eats macrobiotic foods all day, with minimum carbs.

    Unfortunately, the rest of us must work for a living outside the home and she is lucky that Ed subsidizes her as she approaches 35 years old.

  2. I got into hiking and camping last year when there wasn’t much else to do (also: outdoor socializing with an inadequate fire pit). I bought some utilitarian outdoor gear that was OK. I find that I run cold and in a damp climate was frequently miserable (like I invested seriously in Hot Hands, hats with ear flaps, and fleece neck gaiters and that all helps a lot). Now that it is cooling off, this year, I can justify buying some gear if it is a) warmer and/or b) cute (not just somber solid colors). With WFH and a dog to walk, I am outside all the time it seems ,7 days a week. I have a birthday coming up and some $ to spend on myself. I am a solid M, pear-shaped. I wanted a puffy skirt last year but never got one (salary was cut; cuts are restored this year), so recs on that are welcome.

    2. Do you have an REI nearby? The staff there are very knowledgeable and nice, and could help you pick a few items that will work well for your lifestyle.

      1. Skhoop skirt. Down skirt, comes in three lengths, these are an Alaska staple. Spend the $$, they are 100% worth it.

    6. I thought you already bought a cap with earflaps to walk the pandemic pup? Is he still eating the adjusters off your masks?

    8. Merino wool is great in bad weather. It also might work out better to buy a longer coat rather than a skirt.

    10. Look up backcountry skiing and cross country skiing gear – it’s designed to breathe, layer,
      and handle humidity well. Darn Tough wool socks, merino wool base layers as another poster mentioned, and brands like NW Apline, skhoop, Rab, Swix, Salewa, Eddie Bauer, Pendleton, Arcteryx, Patagonia… Outside Magazine also has gear reviews- might intro you to brands you haven’t encountered. Lululemon’s fleece-lined leggings are still the best version I’ve worn and get me through active winters for activities that don’t require outright snow pants.

  3. How do you deal with migraines during long working hours?
    I’m 28 now and I work 65-80 hours a week. I suffer from severe migraine attacks for 10-15 days a month. Sometimes the pain becomes so intense. I had to rolling around on bed or floor and bump my head again walls or furnitures just so I could get some minor relieve. I have had migraines since 13 but so far I haven’t found any effective ways to deal with it.
    I’m pretty career oriented so I really don’t want to change my job or ask for leave during an attack. To be honest I would go to ER if I had an attack at home. But I have never told any of my coworkers about my migraines or ask for any sick leave for fear they knowing it may endanger my career development.

    1. You need to see a neurologist and get a treatment plan. 10-15 migraine days per month is an insane amount. Even if you’re not taking leave, this is likely affecting your performance. I suffer from migraines (one per month typically, associated with my cycle) and there’s no way I could do my job in a passable fashion if I were down with migraines a third to half the time.

        1. Then see a different neurologist who specializes in headaches. There are new medication (CGRP inhibitors) that are life-changing for migraine sufferers. Migraines are fairly common and treatable and you need to keep advocating for yourself until you get them treated. There are many headache specialists out there! If you post a location, someone may be able to recommend one.

          2. +1

            You are not seeing the right neurologists. It can be better! Yes, please post your location and we can help.

            You can also look online for neurologists board certified in Headache medicine (UCNS).

          3. Look for a headache specialist.

            I’m on memantine and it took 10-15 migraine days down to zero.

    2. Are you sure that working 65-80 hours a week is a good decision for your health? Stress certainly doesn’t help migraines.

    3. You don’t mention if you have prescription meds. Do you? They were transformative for me. I usually work 12-hr shifts.

      Excedrin when I’m trying to spare the Rx meds.

      1. I have tried several prescription meds. Sadly all of their effects reduce within half a year so I would have to find a new one after that.

        2. Previous comment in mod. You need a preventative medication, there are new CGRP inhibitors that are life-changing for migraine sufferers.

    4. You’ve posted about this before right? Migraines aren’t some weird secret you need to keep. People are pretty understanding. I think you need to prioritize getting them under control- see a neurologist, revisit your treatment plan. Having a migraine and needing to take a sick day is not weird. Rolling on the floor banging your head on things is.

      1. This is the first time I post this. I have tried everything I could think of but none of them are effective enough to get migraines under control for long.

        1. You need to keep trying. See a different neurologist. Seek out a migraine specialist.

    5. You need a neurologist. You’re hitting close to 50% of your time affected by migraine, that more than enough to get specialist treatment.

      1. I have visited several neurologists. Migraines can be very hard to deal with and varies from person to person so I guess it takes time and luck to find that one neurologist who knows how to deal with my migraines.

    6. This post to me is the realities of corporate America and all its problems in a nutshell.

      I am not a migraine sufferer and if you’ve been having migraines for 15 years I’m assuming you’ve been to lots of doctors and tried lots of treatments, but it sounds like it might be time to find a new doc if this is impacting you almost half of each month. How can you get quality work done on those days?

      1. I was a track athlete back in college so I exercise a lot. Practicing boxing and MMA also helps me to deal with the symptoms.

    7. I think you have to make a decision as to whether your job is more important than your health. Working 65-80 weeks is not sustainable and is not going to help your migraine situation.

      1. +1

        As you know, common triggers for migraine are insufficient or irregular sleep, irregular eating patterns, stress etc… When you are working that many hours you are not getting those things. So you know you need to change a lot more than find a new doctor.

    8. Please don’t reply to this troll who keeps posting these weird migraine comments about rolling around banging their head but not actually bothering to see a doctor or take medication. I have chronic migraine for real and find it kind of offensive that they keep making these joke posts about it.

      1. I have seen plenty of doctors and neurologists. And I’m still struggling to find one that actually helps me. See my other comments about meds. Basically they all lost effect after a certain amount of time. I’m sure you will understand if you have chronic migraines.

      5. Very much agree. About a year ago there was a series of posts like this …someone rolling around on the floor and hitting their head against the wall because of migraines, and also rejecting any kind of intervention suggested.

          1. It is so, so, SO strange to me that someone would troll about…migraines. At least the button-down shirt troll was an obvious male fetish situation.

    9. It is insane that you haven’t seen a neurologist about this. Relying on the ER to treat a chronic condition is a terrible idea, especially during COVID, and is likely to get you treated as if you are an opioid addict.

    10. If you have severe migraines for 1/3 to 1/2 of the month, you are working 65-80 hours a week in part because of your lowered productivity when you have migraines; that in turn exacerbates your migraines. This is the very definition of a vicious cycle, and you cannot afford to *not* fix it.

    11. As a fellow migraine sufferer you have my deepest sympathies. Migraines are truly debilitating. First, get a neurologist ASAP. They get booked out for months. It takes some time to find drugs that will work for you and with tolerable side effects. Second, i say this very gently because I didn’t want to hear it either, but decreasing stress levels helped me manage them.

    12. When I was in my late 20s, I had a similar approach to a chronic health issue. I was ashamed. I felt like I couldn’t take leave. I felt like I couldn’t even take time for doctor’s appointments to manage my condition. And, there was some truth to that within the culture of my workplace, but here’s how it played out. I chose not to get treatment, and I didn’t get my health condition under control. My performance suffered, and the people I worked with were frustrated with me because they didn’t understand what was going on. Then I had a health crisis, and while people were generally sympathetic, I had no credibility built up with them. I had to take medical leave, and one year to the day after returning to work, I was fired.

      I was unemployed for 6 months. I worked on my health. I went to doctors and got treatment plans. I worked on lifestyle choices that help me manage my health. I have a new job where employees are treated as humans, not robots. I take a day off if I need one. But I’m also sick a LOT less (like, 2-3 days per year). My job performance is better. I’m more reliable. I’m more confident.

      In hindsight, Old Job would have gone better if I’d just matter of factly said, “I will be out for a doctor’s appointment today.” People wouldn’t have been happy. (I once had a senior associate complain that I couldn’t complete a last-minute assignment between 8:30 and noon because I had a 10 am root canal appointment.) Maybe I wouldn’t have made partner. But it would have played out better among the people who WERE reasonable. And I would have enjoyed several years of better health.

      Careers are long, and they are not meant to be suffered through.

    14. I regularly work 60 hour weeks and I have a colleague with chronic migraines who is a star performer. TBH, our job is not helping but it’s her decision to stay. She takes sick time when she needs it; no one looks sideways at her. My office environment has a lot of problems (run by old white men) but firing people for taking sick time over migraines isn’t one of them. Take the time you need to figure this out. If your job doesn’t understand you need to find a new one either way. Might as well deal with the core issue in the meantime.

    15. I’ve posted at length about this before if you want to search the archives for “migraine,” but I did not get substantial relief from my migraines (which were happening 10-15 days a month) until I did two things: I significantly modified my diet, and I got help for my TMJ.

      The book The Migraine Brain goes into how dehydration and blood sugar fluctuations can trigger some people; if you are working that many hours a week I think you are probably at risk for both dehydration and not eating regularly enough to keep your blood sugar stable. I also had to cut out a number of foods and additives, the main one being aspartame, which was triggering probably 30-40% of my migraines. I stopped gluten, and that helped a lot. I stopped all other artificial sweeteners, and that helped. I can’t drink wine, even white wine, any more. It’s taken a number of years but I’ve gotten my diet and eating/drinking habits dialed in so I only very rarely trigger from that.

      The second thing that was critical was seeing a TMJ specialist who made me a custom top-only, front-only bite guard to wear to stop my grinding. I’d had a full-upper bite guard but the grinding just got worse. The front-only top-only hard guard I have is like biting down on a fork – I can’t grind with it in as it hurts too much. He also gave me information on head, neck and jaw exercises to reduce tension. That helped a TON. I went from having two or three migraines a month to one every other month, which is truly life-changing.

      If you feel like your migraines are hormonal, you may find relief from getting on progesterone-only birth control pills and staying on them for 3 months at a time, or getting a Mirena IUD. I have migraineur friends with hormonal migraines who found relief doing those things.

      People can drag me for this comment if they want to, but while I am grateful for good prescription meds and absolutely agree they are necessary (I take them when I do have migraines), most migraineurs I know have only gotten substantial relief from recurrent migraine when they’ve done habit and diet modification, and medicated conditions that theoretically had nothing to do with their migraines. Migraine medication is only one part of the picture. I would personally not quit my job before I tried altering my diet, getting more sleep, hydrating better, and getting help for TMJ (if you think that’s an issue). There are integrative medicine specialists out there who can help you do a supervised elimination diet and also talk to you about things like massage, acupuncture, biofeedback, TENS pain relief, etc.

      1. Medications never really worked for me either. But veganism has been a godsend, I get a migraine maybe 2-3 times a year and that’s it, often times I can trace a migraine to Starbucks accidentally making a drink with dairy.

      2. I also found sugar to be a trigger for me. Once I cut it out of my diet I went from weekly migraines to one a month at the most. No doctor suggested this to me, it was my own reading that led me down this path. I agree with the point about hydration as well.

      3. There is a lot of great advice in this post. A few other ideas: track your life for awhile. It helped me to figure out some of my triggers for migraines. Some I can control (stress, chocolate, red wine), while others I cannot (weather, hormones). Knowing that information is helpful to a neurologist. For those that I cannot control, at least I had a warning system. Also, I wonder with the frequency that you are having migraines whether you are having rebound migraines.

        1. A few follow up thoughts to my post. Everyone’s migraines are different so it is hard to give useful advice. For the first ten years, I did not get nauseas when I had migraines. Now the only way I get through a migraine is with anti-nausea meds.

          You mentioned that meds have not worked for you. Some small things that have helped me when I have helped survive a migraine while at work: Bio-Freeze roll on; cold compress; sit in a dark room (or take nap); regular Coke (no other caffeine product works as well as for me).

    16. You need to rethink your priorities and put your health up much higher, imo. There’s career-oriented and there’s stupid.

  4. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but for a beloved style of pants, they seem to not fit the model well (and I am definitely larger in the hips than she is, I probably don’t have a chance of these working for me).

    1. I like the Richmond pants but I buy a size up and put two small darts in the waist for that reason! Also, what do we think of sweater vests for this season? I’m bizarrely attracted to them!

    2. They are an inch too short if you compare with the other colors on the other models.
      I like that they style it with flats, since it’s easier to look sleek in heels but I have no use for heels anymore.

    3. I would put her in a size up and then they’d fit beautifully rather than stretching.
      These are the only formal trousers I’ve ever found that I actually like my body in – that said I don’t much like this season’s colours (with the possible exception of Frankincense).

    4. I love this color on the model but I have a pair of the Eileen Fisher crepe ankle pants in a similar color and I have a devil of a time pairing it with anything that I think looks good.

      I need to stick to black, navy, and gray pants.

      1. Agree. I love this color, but I’d have an easier time wearing it on top, with neutral bottoms. That said, I looove that gold color that Biden is doing this season. I’d look like death if I wore it near my face, but colorful pants plus a navy or sweater would be a cute fall look.

      1. Interesting. I can see that around the hip area, but wouldn’t a bigger size look strange through the legs?

        1. Yes,

          They aren’t the optimal pant for a curvy woman. Ask me how I know.

          Then again, I’ve never found a pant that fits right and all need to be tailored.

  6. My two closest friends and I are big readers and we frequently swap book suggestions. Another thing we apparently have in common is that we are all struggling to remember the names of the main characters in books after we’ve read them. I can read a book and enjoy it and then two months later, I’m lucky if I can remember 1-2 names (much less all of them) and within a year or two, I’m lucky if I can even remember the plot. My friends report the same and that it’s a bit scary how much they forget from books they JUST read. Is this happening to anyone else? I’m a fast reader and not necessarily a close reader, but still, this seems excessive, even though I know we’re in the Internet age where my memory has trained itself to forget things that I can Google instantly.

    2. I read a lot (~75 books per year) and forget most books quickly. Only the ones I really love stick with me.

      1. Me too. And it may take me a minute to remember the names of the characters of even the ones I loved.

      2. Agree. Same with movies and TV shows. In fact, a long time ago I read that it’s the mark of a really exceptional movie when you can remember the character’s name rather than the actor’s name, and I have found that to be true.

    3. I read a lot of books and am also a fairly quick reader. I definitely remember the plot/characters of books that I find interesting. Less so of books that I didn’t like as much.

      1. This is all so reassuring to me! I feel like I used to recall books better and was a voracious reader. Since college, reading has been much more difficult and I thought my lack of recall was unusual.

    4. Idk if you’ve always had this but my memory has taken a hit with the trauma of 2020. Often, I need to seriously think to answer questions about the weekend, when asked on Monday.

      1. OTOH, I remember stuff from the 1990s well. I feel like I am becoming, if not my parents, my grandparents.

      2. +1 the stress of the last year (last several years, lets be honest) plus the ubiquity of scrolling media means my memory is shot. I’m taking classes right now and dismayed at how little I actually retain.

    5. There is some book that I need to re-read. I read it a while ago and apparently missed a major point in it (but enjoyed it nevertheless). I am drawing a blank on what book and what major point, so you’re not alone.

      OTOH, I did go see Apocalypse Now and remarked to a friend that the movie really reminded me of a book I had read in high school called Heart of Darkness (that I really loved). Lord of the Flies has haunted me since my freshman year of high school. But other stuff just fades . . .

      1. .. Apocalypse now is a retelling of Joseph Conrads Heart of Darkness. Well spotted:-)

    6. Definitely happens to me and always has. I don’t think it’s strange! Certain key moments from beloved books are ingrained in my memory, but the vast majority come in and out of my consciousness. I like to think it’s to make room for the really good ones. If you read often, you’re probably not loving everything you read and your brain only has so much room!

    7. I remember characters and plots but not names. I also remember actual people’s faces and personalities much better than their names. I remember their dogs’ names, though.

      1. Ditto, and this is often true within weeks of reading. If I read a book at the beginning of the month and have book club atthe end, I’m usually describing the characters as “the childhood friend/love interest” and “the guy from ____.” Names don’t stick even when plot and character descriptions do.

    8. I very rarely remember factual detail from books – just how they made me feel.

    9. I think this is pretty common, especially character names. I’m better with plots, at least with books I really liked, but names are easily forgotten. I agree with Ribena that feelings stick with me the most.

    10. Happens to me with books and movies! My memory in other situations is perfectly fine, but the plots of books, movies, and TV series vanish seemingly instantly. My husband and I watched the entire series of Harry Potter movies during lockdown last winter, and I am embarrassed to admit that I hardly remember anything besides a few key scenes.

    11. I forget so much so quickly that I can pick up a book I’ve read before and enjoy it nearly as much as the first time because I can’t quite remember most of it.

      It’s like my mom and her elder friends used to joke about memory loss – the good part is that you make new friends every day!

    12. I have noticed that since I use my Kindle more frequently than a paper book, I forget book details much quicker. I think it has to do with not seeing the title and cover all the time on the Kindle, like I would with a paper book.

      1. Fun fact: You can set your Kindle so it displays the book cover every time you open it. This has been a game-changer for me!

    13. I can’t remember the names of the characters in the book I’m currently reading, but I found out yesterday i do remember all of the words to the final rap battle in 8 Mile. Shrug.

      1. Hah, same here. I actually can’t tell you the title of the book I’m reading – it’s something in the X series by author but its actual name escapes me…

        However, on 90’s peloton rides in particular… how do I know every word of this song I haven’t heard in 20 years? How do I remember the dance routine I did to this song in 2001? Brains are weird.

    14. Thanks everyone! I feel a bit better now :) And yes, I can remember names or even plots from books I read in the 90s, but not from like, two months ago. I blame social media for some of this for sure…

    15. I’m 33 and with an otherwise excellent memory and this is the case for me too. I remember scenes, the impression of the novel, the ‘point’ and emotional tableau of it all. I do not remember plot or names.

    16. I’ve read Revolutionary Road three times and forgot until the very end the second and third time that I already read it.

  7. Weird side effect of the pandemic: I now work 99% remotely and no longer have to commute 75 minutes each way. I’m thrilled! But I set up my life so that all my doctors were near my job, since it’s so hard to get across town in time for an appointment and it was chewing through my PTO like mad. So now I have to decide if I should change all my health care providers back to ones near my house.

    1. Lol same. I just commute to the doctors now and usually tack on some in person work time.

    2. For me, no for things I go to infrequently (OB/GYN and dentist). My allergy shot place is much more frequent, so I’d change that. Can you triage the high-use ones? And in my city, providers often have city and suburban offices that they see patients out of (not necessarily same doc for each place, but for me getting the allergy shot is important vs who sticks me; I see the actual doctor there 2x/year).

    3. How often do you see a doctor? For me, I see my obgyn once per year for an annual exam and I see an endocrinologist twice a year and that’s pretty much it, so it probably wouldn’t be worth switching. But if you’re going every month then yeah I would switch.

      1. Unfrotunately I see several specialists rather frequently. You’re right that I should just change those and leave the yearly and semi-yearly ones as-is.

    4. If it’s a doctor I love and I only see once a year like my derm, I keep the old location. If it’s someone I want convenient I just swapped them closer to home.

    5. I had to do this pre-pandemic, when I went from live/work in city to live in suburb/work in city to live/work in suburbs. I think I lasted 1-2 years “commuting” into my doctors, typically either taking a PTO day to do multiple appts or plainning doctor’s appts around a known obligation in the city (e.g., have to be at meeting in the morning, schedule dentist for afternoon before heading back to office/home). This got old fast because it felt like the running around when I was downtown was too stressful, so I shifted first the can’t-plan-ahead appts (my GP who I would see when I was “sick”) and then OBGYN/dentist (typically seen only 1-2x a year and planned ahead).

    6. I went through the same thing when my job moved from the city a suburban office park. It’s much more convenient to have a doctor close to home. Especially when you’re sick – you don’t want to be slogging out your commute when you’re not going for work just because you need a z pack.

      I did make an exception for things where I had to go frequently like for a course of physical therapy or when I was seeing a podiatrist regularly. If made more sense for those to be near my work.

      But now I work from home (permanently) so everything is right here!

    7. Will you permanently be working 99% remote? If so, I would change all the doctors. If you think you will eventually be going into the office more often, I would leave them.

    8. Honestly, I would put up with it if you are pleased with the treatment you receive. Good PCPs and specialists are tough to find. And if you have a good relationship… it’s challenging/time consuming to rebuild that.

  8. I have a final round interview tomorrow with the GC of a large company for a non-litigation in-house role. I’m currently a Big Law litigation senior associate. Clearly my prior rounds have gone well, but I’d appreciate any random tidbits of advice the hive has to offer for in-house interviews. I think I have the “why in-house” question covered as well as why the move away from litigation but any killer responses you’ve used/heard for those questions and any others would be helpful. I’ve heard the GC does not do small-talk, which I am great at, so I’m a little nervous about a no-nonsense interview where I may not get a ton of expressive feedback and am fielding tons of substantive questions.

    TIA!

    1. IME, at this stage they’re looking to confirm that you can work well with others & be business-minded versus looking to win at all costs. They know you’re smart and experienced at this stage, so being a team player and recognizing that a “win” in-house is often “settle at $X early, versus spending $3X to win summary judgment.” I would focus on times you’ve worked with your in-house clients closely to achieve the business objectives beyond winning a case. My in-house mentor taught me that as in-house counsel, you rarely want to say “no you can’t do that” (obviously you can for truly unethical/dangerous/illegal things) but instead come from a place of “I understand your priorities are A and B, here’s one way to achieve those things while minimizing our risk.” Good luck inyour interview!

    2. GC here…At this point, I am looking for fit. And whatever you do, don’t answer the “why move to an inhouse role” question by saying “I am ready for a 40 hour per week role (insulting and inaccurate).” or “I am ready to prevent problems before they get to litigation (trite).” I want to know you are going to take the time to get to know the business, you have a client-first mentality, you will represent the department well, and that you are a problem-solver.

    3. If public, make sure you read the 10-k. Also have a list of questions to ask him/her.

    4. Goinhouse.com interview guide and watch any of the Barker Gilmore webinars that look interesting.

    1. HAHA this is taking me back to my 70s upbringing. All shag, all the time…

      1. Ha! We bought a house with freakishly plush carpet in a few rooms. It was nice for the first couple of years but with the pandemic we’ve all been home a ton and I want to try and revive (and maintain!) it.

  10. Hard working hive, tell me how you prioritize non-work pursuits/pastimes/hobbies so that you are making progress towards those goals? Easy to do in career and work life, but for example I want to learn to golf, buy a second home in next 2 years, and get some new furniture in 2 rooms of my house…all of these take time. How much time do you allocate? How do you prioritize? Got the work side covered, now I want to be confident that I’m investing sufficient time to achieve non-work goals.

    1. 1. Don’t do chores on weekends – do them all on a weeknight. Minimize the number of chores to do. Don’t book a haircut for 11 on a Saturday.
      2. Get the gear you need and the information or lessons you need. I was hesitant to drop money on backpacking gear, but once I did (and researched routes), I started going, simple as that.
      3. Erase the concept of “puttering” or “just hanging out” from your concept of leisure time. Weekends are for hobbies, not for sitting on your butt.
      4. Don’t fall into the trap of “but this half hour time chunk I have isn’t enough to really do anything so I’ll go on Netflix instead.” You can practice your golf swing quite a bit in half an hour. You can clean your golf shoes. You can do a core workout or even go hit some balls. Reclaim those small chunks of time.
      5. Reduce screentime.
      6. Book your hobbies in advance and get them on the calendar.
      7. Spend less time visiting family or friends at their houses where you just sit around. And invite them to join you in your hobbies as much as possible instead (or join them in theirs).

    2. I plan my priorities! I love to dance, and I book my dance commitments in advance, then book the lessons and practices and classes I need to meet my goals. It means for me I pretty often say to other things “sorry can’t it’s a dance night” but that works for me! For me, buying furniture is not a fun exciting goal it’s a chore, so I’d go to west elm once and buy some stuff and call it a day.

    3. I don’t think about it, I just do it? I’m not a plot an allocate out my life kind of person – for hobbies, make time in the weekend and after work to do what you like, for life stuff I mix that into my days and free time. I dunno, just get it done?

      1. +1 I do not need to optimize every aspect of my life like this. It sounds exhausting.

        1. I disagree – optimizing the fun stuff is well worth it. Optimizing every single grocery run and playdate and other boring life stuff? Not so much. There’s no return on investment there, but there is a HUGE return on investment when I take the time to plan an amazing weekend away or finally buy the new bike or whatever it is.

    4. It’s harder for me to focus on work than it is on a hobby, especially when I have a new hobby I’m excited about. It’s more about pacing myself.

    5. Hobbies: sign up for a class so the time is blocked off.
      For buying a home, what part are you struggling with? If it’s money, I would say set an automatic payment so you don’t have to think about it. Once you start looking at houses, schedule out time to do so.

    6. I allow myself to have 3 things “going” outside of work at a time. So a book club takes a slot, running regularly takes one, and this year building a 2nd home has taken one. Once a slot empties I can take on a new hobby. Three is not right for everyone, but it works as a concept for me to tell myself that I need to avoid spreading myself too thinly.
      I also try to have a touch point with each hobby every week as a minimum.

      1. Hmm, I like this approach. Many of my hobbies are seasonal so I could see this working well for me.

        1. My house is 30 years old, so it accumulates dust and grime quickly. It takes a full day every weekend just for basic cleaning.

          1. How big is your house? And what does being old have to do with it? I live in a 2200 sf house built in 1959. A thorough cleaning- vacuum, swiffer, all surfaces wiped, takes mayyyybe two hours.

          2. Yikes!!! No wonder you’re having leisure time problems! My apartment (1,100 square feet, so probably smaller than your house) is also quite old, but I spend maybe 2 hours per week on cleaning, not including laundry or loading the dishwasher. My baseboards don’t look good and I think there’s a spiderweb in a high corner, but everything else looks fine. I promise you that you can reduce the amount of time spent on cleaning without becoming disgusting – and your quality of life will dramatically improve too. You only get 52 Saturdays a year – don’t spend them ALL on cleaning for the rest of your life.

          3. My house is 100+ years old and … you must have a much cleaner house than I have! Because a full day on the weekend would be a complete no-go for me. I’d go back to having a cleaning service in that case.

            I dust when I’m on the phone or just taking a quick break. I vacuum when I see dust or dust bunnies or there’s a spill. I clean the kitchen counters thoroughly about once a week and give them the basic wipe down every night.

            I do not and would not ever be able to convince myself that literally half of my free time should be spent cleaning!!

          5. We have an older place in an area with lots of fine granite dust and wind. Everything gets covered with dust in a week. We use a house cleaner every other week but still have to vacuum, etc., in between.

          6. If you have an older house with old ductwork and old windows, especially in a humid climate, the volume of dust and cobwebs and dirt and grime and mildew and spider droppings and bug carcasses that builds up within a week is truly horrifying. If you live with other people and/or pets, and if you cook, the amount of mess increases exponentially. Having the entire family home all day every day makes it even worse. I find it very hard to believe that anyone can do a weekly deep clean of an entire house in two hours. Two rooms, maybe.

    8. My husband and I have a meeting at the beginning of each month in which we set goals for the coming month and review how we did on the goals for the previous month. And we actually write them on our joint wall calendar and check them off if we completed them or cross them out if we didn’t. Sometimes we carry them over (it’s not uncommon for a goal to be carried over for a month or two or three before it finally gets checked off) and sometimes we don’t because it turns out we really didn’t want to do whatever the thing was after all. It’s helpful because instead of “learn how to play golf,” we can do easy steps like “find out where we can take golf lessons.” Or in our case it was “find an architect for family room project,” and then “finalize family room project plans” and then “get permit for family room project,” and this month it’s “start work on family room project.”

      Just naming the steps and holding ourselves accountable really helps.

  11. Has anyone had lower eyelid blepharoplasty? How was the recovery (pain, bruising, other) and are you happy with the results?

    I’ve had dark circles forever and I would really like to get rid of them. In a consultation with a cosmetic derm/plastic surgeon, he explained that I have small amounts of excess fat and skin under my eyes. He would do an incision right beneath my bottom lash line to remove the fat deposits and another incision at the outer corner where he would remove excess skin. The doctor says recovery time is around 3 weeks; no heavy exercise and a few other restrictions. He says the results would last at least 20-25 years and maybe longer (I’m 40).

    1. I had an upper and lower blepharoplasty about 10 years ago. I am very happy with it. I had horrible dark circles and my upper lids were very droopy. The recovery was not bad. I don’t remember any real pain. There was swelling and slight bruising (I am very fair and usually bruise easily) for about a week that was noticeable. After about a week I could cover it with makeup. I could still see the swelling, but no one else can. The incisions on my lower lid are not at all noticeable.

    2. I had an upper and lower blepharoplasty done about 18 years ago and was very happy with the results. Pain was minimal—I had a prescription for three days of pain meds but only took them the first day. I worked from home for a week while the bruising cleared up and then went on with my regular life. One thing to keep in mind is that you’ll naturally lose fat under your eyes as you age, so there’s a delicate balance in not having so much fat removed now that your eyes have a sunken look in the future.

      1. +1 I’ve never had this done but that was my first thought – you lose fat in your face as you age and that contributes to making you look older. Do you really want to remove fat from your eyes at 40? I’d be skeptical that 5 years from now the surgeon will be telling you that you need injections to reverse the appearance of aging.

      2. Good point, losing the underye fat as I age was definitely something I hadn’t thought about and will need to discuss with the doctor.

    3. I had lowers done ten years ago (early 50s) and have been quite happy with it. (Had uppers last year and same.) Recovery was easy and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

  12. Any good tips for increasing your savings rate? I’m looking at making a real push towards having a down payment saved up and just wondering if others had specific things they did and found helpful!

    1. I just stopped buying things unless I really needed them. Moving across the country multiple times and having to deal with all the stuff I didn’t use or want was a really good motivator to just stop buying stuff!

    2. Take a look at your monthly expenditures and determine how much you can actually save, be cutthroat on where you can cut, but also be realistic. Once you determine what your number is, set up an automatic transfer to a separate savings account at the same time you get paid. You may even want to consider setting up that account at a different bank, like an online bank with a higher interest rate, so that it takes an extra step or two to transfer back to your checking account in the event you feel compelled to spend on something.

    3. I found it most helpful to never see the money. So I maxed out my 401k first, then opened a separate savings account at a credit union my employer had a relationship with, then had $x taken out of every paycheck to go to savings before the rest hit my checking account.

      I made it a point to have the savings account at a different bank to make it harder to access when I wanted to spend it or was feeling the pinch on monthly bills.

      1. Also, if you decide to go this route, do not install an app for the savings bank on your phone. Do not save the password on your computer. Make it take some effort to check the balance and try not to do it often.

    4. Are you tracking your spending already? If you buy everything with one credit card, your bank may already have useful overview graphics on your spending. Look at what you spend on monthly subscriptions, food including eating out, clothes, insurance, and decide where you can cut.

    5. Set up an automatic transaction to your brokerage account so you never see the money. You’ll think you’re always broke. You can’t spend money you don’t have

    6. Create a false sense of scarcity. I deposit exactly what I think my cc bill should be in the bank I use to pay it. The rest goes to an account I never see. If my cc bill goes over, I have to transfer from the secondary account, which is a pain and makes me feel bad, so I’m better about watching my saving the next month.

    7. Follow the Frugalwoods blog; track net worth in Personal Capital; use YNAB for your budgets so you don’t spend cash just because it’s there.

      1. I came here to recommend YNAB! It’s perfect for this kind of situation. I have a category set up in my YNAB budget for big things I want to purchase (right now, a car, but could certainly be a downpayment). I allocate a set amount monthly to it, but I also will go through at the end of the month and allocate “leftovers” to that category. So, if there’s $7.89 left in my Entertainment category, it goes to the car. $4.10 in Groceries? To the car! Those little bits add up over time, and I don’t spend money just because I see it in my my account because my budget tells me that X amount of that is allocated to a bigger goal that I want more than a third new purple sweater or whatever.

  13. Shopping help, please! We are doing family photos in a few weeks, and I’d like to buy a new outfit for the occasion (either a dress or new shirt). I recently weaned and still have some extra baby weight, so finding something flattering is proving to be a challenge. I prefer solid colors or small patterns, I’m a large-chested size 14 with an hour-glass-ish shape, and it will still be hot outside here so no sweaters or long sleeves, please.

    1. Hill House Home nap dress Ellie, size L, emerald botanical. On sale tmrw at noon

      1. This answer is so comprehensive. Love it. I am also a zealous convert to the nap dress, from this board.

      2. The nap dress is a pajama-like dress and looks like something you wear when you’re lounging around the house. I can’t imagine wearing something like that in family photos that will hopefully be framed or blown up for wall art, and I consider myself a fairly casual person.

        1. I’ve seen it in tons of family photos and think it looks great! I’ve also worn it in loads of photos and love it.

          1. My family photographer’s #1 style tip for photos is to avoid anything excessively trendy. Regardless of what you think of the merits of the nap dress, it’s impossible to argue it’s not a massive trend right now. You want a much more classic look for professional photos so the photos don’t get dated quickly.

          2. I disagree with your photographer- family photos are dated in a year regardless because your kids grow up. That’s good advice for a headshot, but I wouldn’t worry at all about a trendy look for an annual photo that’s probably just your holiday card.

          3. One of my pandemic hobbies is looking at houses on Zillow, and I have news for you — ALL the family photos in ALL the houses look dated! That’s the nature of family photos! In fact, I’d go so far as to say that’s part of their charm! So by all means wear something trendy and that will help pinpoint the era in years to come. I say it’s not a bug, it’s a feature!

          4. I whole-heartedly agree with Anon @ 12:12, if there’s any place to go trendy it’s family photos! Think about how fun they’ll look to your grandchildren.

      3. I like nap dresses but they make me look pregnant. It’s not a flattering look on me.

        1. It’s not a flattering look on anyone. People who think they look good in that hideous dress are just kidding themselves.

          1. Wow y’all woke up mean today! I’m a size 14, I look great in these dresses, and they’re my photos go to.

            By all means suggest something else but super rude to tell me I look ugly in my fave dresses.

          5. Anonymous @ 10:29 I am an adult, like them, and look good in them as well. To each her own!

        2. I have yet to try it but do not think it would work well for someone large busted

          2. Oh well maybe I am wrong! As I said this was a guess. I am large busted and also don’t look good with anything with a gathered waist. But I think that is because I am somewhat rectangular in shape aside from the bust – I’m not an hourglass. And I’m short-waisted.

        3. I have one and while I like it, I want to take off the bottom panel (and it was $$$$ so I’m procrastinating taking it to the tailor instead of cutting it off myself). I’m very short waisted and it just looks frumpy at a midi-length – I think it would be cuter if it hit closer to my knees.

      4. I’m also a 14 and these are hideous on me. For indie dresses, Sue Sartor is amazing, so are Emerson Fry caftans.

        1. I agree, especially not for a new mom who is self conscious about baby weight.

          Mom, buy a solid top and wear dark pants that fit you now. Solid colors are always, always best for photos. I like a scoop neck best on myself but whatever neckline flatters you. Wrap tops can be good too.

      6. Dear god no. I happen to think the nap dress is hideous and way too informal for professional portraits, but even if you think it’s cute, it’s a super trendy piece that will look super dated soon. Your photos will scream “2020-2021” in a few years.

        1. Who cares if photos become dated? It’s not like you don’t constantly update them, right? They’re a moment in time. If anything the baby’s mere presence dates them to the year that the baby was born. :)

          1. It’s a different kind of dated. Yes, you will know the photos were taken in 2021 by the ages of your kids. But you won’t look at a photo with your baby 10 years from now and cringe at how tiny the baby was. If you wear a super trendy item like the nap dress, you’ll look at these photos in a few years and wonder how you could have worn something that’s by then considered so unfashionable. “Boring” clothes may not look super stylish at the time, but they’re also not “out” when you look back on them in 10 years. Also, a lot of people like to collect their annual photos in albums or frames side by side so you can see the growth of the family, and having the clothes change dramatically in accordance with current trends can be really distracting.

            If you don’t believe me, feel free to g00gle this. Pretty much every professional photographer who offers style advice will advise against wearing anything trendy.

          2. Right! The purpose of a photo is to capture a moment in time, so they are always “dated.”

          3. It makes me really sad that people would regret wearing something they enjoyed at the time and felt great in when looking back on family photos. Wear what makes you happy and comfortable and then enjoy a memory of a happy time when you’re looking at them a few years down the line!

          4. Right? The best thing about old photos is laughing at the dated clothes!

            I feel sorry for young folk (I’m 53) folks today – since it’s so easy to take and edit pictures, they will never have the joy of revisiting their terrible 8th grade glasses or hairstyle, or the family picture in which everyone was pissed off at each other but that was the best shot the free photographer at the bank got, so it’s damn well going on the wall!

          5. Agreed. My favorite family photo of all time is my parents tricked out in full 70s gear – long plaid skirt on my mom and full bell bottoms and those bad aviators on my dad. It captured the era.

          6. Why would you cringe at how tiny a baby was?? I am going to assume you don’t have kids. FWIW though I love seeing changing fashion. Wear what you love and remember it well.

      7. I can’t believe this s1te thinks Talbots is frumpy old lady clothes and the nap dress is stylish. The nap dress looks like the muumuus my 68 year old mother has slept in for decades.

        1. I can’t believe everyone is being so mean about me suggesting a dress I like and think is cute! Y’all do have to wear it but I’m a real live busty size 14 you’re calling ugly.

          1. Literally no one has called YOU ugly. Calling a dress ugly is not a criticism of your body. You’re replying to me and I didn’t even say the dress is “ugly.” I can see it being a cute look for something casual like daycare drop-off or running errands. I was just making the observation that my senior citizen mom sleeps in muumuus that look very similar to the nap dress, so to me it feels like a much more old lady-ish style than most of the clothes Talbots sells.

          2. I’m sorry, OP. A lot of people are being really ugly personality-wise today. You should wear what you like! We get a lot of posts here where people are clearly petrified to wear shoes or pants that *could* be out of style – isn’t it better to find something you love and wear it on your body? I certainly think so.

        2. Yeah I don’t know why they seem to be so popular among a certain class of women, particularly those in the South.

          1. As someone in the South, they are one of the few options that are tolerable for running around and sitting outside during the summer without overheating while still being moderately covered up. That’s why they are popular. We’ve just deluded ourselves into thinking they are cute, but really are just enjoying not having heat stroke.

          2. Have you been to the South? It’s unbearably hot and humid here. I don’t wear the nap dress, but I can see why people would.

        3. I do see it that way (nap dress is current, Talbot’s is generally not), but don’t disagree about mom’s nightgown. Isn’t that how fashion works? Looks that were old become new; looks that are recent begin to look dated.

          I could say “everyone wearing Talbot’s looks hideous and is deluding themselves!” but that’s super rude, and I also don’t think that. We can have different styles.

        4. I think one or maybe two people like the nap dress and are being extreeeeemely defensive about it.

        6. But a muumuu is shapeless and a nap dress has a gathered waist and bust and a paneled skirt. Not sure your comparison to tour grandmother’s nightwear is accurate.

          1. Muumuus come in lots of different styles. My mom has some that are gathered at the bodice like the nap dress.

    2. My goodness did you get threadjacked. I am busty and tend to like narrow v-necks to divide things up. Maybe a nice shell (will add a link below for one that comes in multiple colors) and dark jeans with flats?

  14. Any suggestions for a high-ish yield savings account or low-risk money market account to keep part of cash for shorter-term savings in (think vacations, home renovations, the “extra” emergency savings, not the “real” emergency fund).

    1. There are no high rates at traditional risk-free savings accounts right now. I helped my teenage son with this recently. We looked all over the place for where he could get a better rate on the $5000 he has saved, without risking principal, and the maximum difference was around $25/year in interest.

    2. AmEx personal savings. The rate is low right now (as is for most) but it’s easy to deal with & reliable.

    3. Ally Bank gives you 0.50% right now. I have my “real” emergency cash stashed there. It’s super easy to transfer from my checking account, which is elsewhere, and I have generally found the site easy to use. I’ve had it for a long time, more than 5 years (maybe closer to 10) and although I don’t use it much, have always found it easy and convenient. The rate was higher in the past, unfortunately. It has been going down recently, but that isn’t surprising. You can also buy CDs, etc etc there as well, if that’s what you’re looking for.

    4. Do you have a credit union available? Mine has 2.5% on checking account balances.

        1. Two separate local/regional ones. Midwest, both have had rates like this for at least the past two decades. One requires a minimum balance, the other requires 5 debit card swipes per month. Neither charge fees.

  15. Those of you who have bought a home recently, what are some things you wish you had known before you started the process? Any tips? Thanks for all your wisdom.

    1. Thoroughly research the neighborhoods you’re considering to determine whether short-term rentals are permitted. You don’t want to live next door to a party house.

    2. If the house is more than 10 years old, budget a minimum of $10,000 per year for maintenance.

      1. That seems wildly excessive to me. I have a 20+ year old home and the only expense I can think of that would cost that much would be a new roof. We had to replace our furnace a few years ago and that was about $4k, but in most years we spend more like $500-1,000 on home and yard maintenance and it’s all planned, preventative stuff like HVAC tune-ups and lawn care.
        It probably depends on where you live too. I’m in a relatively LCOL area, but I don’t know anyone who spends anywhere near $10k a year on their house on a regular basis.

        1. HVAC and water heater last 10-15 years. Roof lasts 30 years. Driveway lasts maybe 20 years. Fence lasts 15 years at most. Windows and entry doors fail. Vinyl siding needs to be replaced eventually. Carpet needs to be replaced or wood floors refinished. Trees need to be trimmed or removed before they fall on your house. Etc., etc., etc. There is a period in the life of a house when something that costs between $7,000 and $15,000 needs to be replaced every year for many years in a row. And that doesn’t even factor in major renovations that should happen periodically, like kitchens and baths.

          1. I think I live on a different planet than many here. The median home price in my area is around $200k. There’s just no way everyone is spending 5% of their home’s value on repairs every year. Google seems to suggest 1% of the total price is what you should budget annually, which sounds much more realistic to me, although we have spent considerably less than that in average in the 12 years we’ve owned our home (years 11-23 of the house’s life, fwiw).

          2. It probably also depends on how much you care about your home looking perfect. Our driveway, fence, carpets and hardwoods are all original to our 23 year old house. The driveway seems completely fine. The fence isn’t in great shape but we don’t really care. The carpets and hardwoods are fine, they don’t look brand new, but I have a dog and little kids so my home isn’t going to look like a model home for more than 5 minutes even if I paid tens of thousands for upgrades, so I don’t really see the point in investing tons of $$ into it at this stage of life. We do any repairs that are necessary for safety and function but for us that has been a pretty trivial amount of money most years. The furnace and the roof (which we haven’t done but will probably have to do within 10 years) are really the only big ticket items I can think of. Siding too, I guess, but vinyl siding lasts even longer than a roof. These are not regular expenses for most homeowners and if they are you probably have a construction problem.

            We have done renovations, including a full kitchen remodel, but I don’t consider that maintenance since it’s totally optional. If you think you want to do something like that, you should budget separately for it, but I don’t agree that it “should” happen regularly. It should happen if you want to change the aesthetics for your own enjoyment and/or resale value, but there’s no reason a kitchen and bath can’t be functional for 50+ years. My parents have lived in my childhood home since 1978 without any major remodeling.

      2. +1. There is always something in need of repair. I love my house, but it is a lot of upkeep, in terms of both time and expense.

      3. This surprises me too. I live in a 100-year-old house and in the two years we’ve owned it, the only home repair we’ve done is on the pool.

    3. Budget a chunk of money for things that break or need replacing in the first three-six months, don’t spend every last cent on your downpayment and closing costs. Also, research (approximate) closing costs up front so you’re not surprised. They vary based on state and market, but are more than my younger self anticipated. Relatedly, don’t underestimate how much it costs to furnish a place, if that’s something you’re planning on doing off the bat.

    4. Try not to fall in love until your offer has been accepted! (Signed, still mourning the house we didn’t get 3 months later.)

    5. Visit the home at all times of day, including commuting hours. This may be harder now than pre-pandemic, but places change at certain times of day. Thinking, for example, of the person who did not know she bought a home that backs up to a preschool. (In my neighborhood, you might be surprised at the number of gunshots you can hear and how bad the parking gets on some streets.)

    6. There is no such thing as a dream home and be ready to make compromises. Decide what your very true and honest must-haves are. House Hunters and similar shows are insanely unrealistic and can set you up for major disappointment, at least initially before recalibrating to reality.

    7. You don’t have to do everything right away. If your home has been sitting in a state of disrepair/deferred maintenance for years, another year isn’t going to make that much of a difference. Not everything is an emergency.

      Address the emergencies first and live with stuff you think is ugly for a while, because your ideas about how make it prettier will undoubtedly change as you live in the house for a while. I am SO glad we didn’t re-do our “tear down” kitchen for a while because we ended up going in a totally different direction than I originally thought we should.

  16. I would love an update on yesterday’s wedding poster, if she is still reading. We are worried about you!

    2. I’m secretly hoping she took a personal day today to do two things: therapy and divorce lawyer consultation

    3. I read every comment and while I didn’t comment yesterday, I think it’s massively premature to suggest consulting a divorce lawyer. She loves this guy or she wouldn’t have married him two weeks ago! On the other hand, I think therapy is highly warranted. I cannot imagine a situation where A) my future husband would have told me my sister (or his!) could not attend our micro wedding but could attend the reception-even with COVID, either you elope with just your parents there and no reception or you have your reception and whomever you want at the wedding is there, even if not all reception guests. B) I cannot imagine a situation where I see my SIL at my micro wedding and I do not just call a stop to everything while I get my own sister there. Yes, 100% this was caused by hubby, but you allowed him to walk all over you and now you are trying to figure out how you avoid a fight between him and your family? I think you both have to take your lumps-you both had a hand in this, even understanding the interest in avoiding conflict on your wedding day.

  17. You guys. I just bought this faux leather miniskirt and trying to decide whether to keep it. I’m in my early 30s with a sort of minimalist with edge style so it totally fits, but can’t wear it to work except with tights on a casual friday and am not sure where else I would wear it or how to style. i’m 5′ 2″ so it’s a little short to wear with bare legs for anything work adjacent, but could be fine otherwise. How can I style this so it fits into my normal life, or do I just need to send it back? I’m just itching to go out and do things and wear awesome clothes and get out of my athleisure….

    https://mmlafleur.com/shop/product/skirts/whitney-skirt-vegan-leather-black

    2. I’d wear this to brunch, for a museum day, to cocktails, out to dinner, to a party etc.

    3. This strikes me as an awesome date night or concert piece. I wouldn’t wear it to work but I’d get a lot of use out of it on weekends (and heck, could also be a base for costume parties- leather skirt = pirate, rocker, 80’s costume, arianna grand cosplay, etc.).
      Enjoy!

    4. I like the skirt but man “vegan leather”? that’s quite a load of marketing. let’s just call it what it is: pleather!

    5. Not advisable for work unless worn with an oversized snuggly sweater and tights, probably on causal day as you’ve suggested.

      I agree with others that it could be a great weekend piece.

    6. I would probably wear it to work if I wasn’t expecting to see trustees, etc that day. I think at work you’d need opaque tights and to be covered up top, so it may be more of a winter piece depending on your climate.

      I’d go with silk or cashmere up top, since the bottom is so structured and edgy.

  18. Yesterday’s post about the wedding made me think of things Younger me put up with that Older me absolutely would not. I think a large part was being socialized to be “nice” and eager to please.

    Anyone want to share? I’ll go first. My first boyfriend. I should have walked away after the first date when he casually made gross oral s** jokes, but I wanted to be the cool girl and pretended it didn’t bother me.

    Older me called out a guy at work recently for making a really inappropriate sexist joke. I calmly gave him a piece of my mind and walked away.

    1. Younger me would have put up with a lot of the dehumanizing language I hear targeted at women (language that I hear today, right now, all the time). Current me is over. it. so. deeply. I push back to the extent I can.

    2. I can’t even remember the exact words but I remember all the times my male coworkers made gross sexist jokes at my expense and I just smiled and did a polite laugh/non-laugh because I was the only woman in the room. I can’t remember what they said, but I will always remember how they made me feel.

      I started my career in the very late 80s.

    3. Younger me changed her last name when she got married because she didn’t want to upset her future ILs. Love my DH dearly, but now as a 40 something, I regret changing it.

      1. You can always change it back. One of the lawyers I work with changed hers back after 9 years. Said it never felt like her. They are married like 20+ years now.

      2. I’m from a family of three girls. I’m the only one who didn’t change and both of my sisters have expressed the same regret to me!

        I didn’t care about upsetting my in-laws because they already made it clear they couldn’t stand me. I’m now on my second husband, still with my original last name, but at least I got some good in-laws this time, who never cared whether I changed my name or not.

      3. Speaking of regrets after marriage, I have a few friends whose mothers left the work force after having kids, and they all say they shouldn’t have done so.

      5. My FIL and MIL never cared what I did with my last name; they don’t stick their noses into other people’s business that way. My family of origin, however, got a cactus up their rear about it and continually sent things to Mrs. Husband’s Last Name. (I no longer communicate with them, for other reasons.) Seeing it flipped like that really highlighted that it’s about control. Some people really want to see women in particular knuckle under and “do what they are expected to do” or “not make waves.”

    4. I couldn’t even name them all! Almost my entire social and professional lives consisted of things I would no longer deal with!

      I endorse the theory that Pick Me (or “cool girl” for us millennials) is a phase rather than a fixed state. I am a recovering Pick Me, and I think most women are too after a certain age. (Unless they remain Pick Mes, like my mom for example.)

        1. I love this concept as it really illustrates this behavior. Going along with things so that you get picked as a friend, girl friend, employee, etc. I’m done with Pick Me as well.

        2. I am assuming that Pick Me is another name for Cool Girl, who will happily wolf down three hot dogs but always remains skinny, knows enough about sportsball to participate in a sportsball conversation but not enough to make a man feel threatened, enjoys cheap beer, is “cool” with p0rn and dirty jokes, and in general exists entirely for the entertainment of men. She is a close relative of Manic Pixie Dreamgirl.

        3. I’m an elder Gen X but I think Pick Me or the Pick Me Girl is a version of “I’m not like other girls, I hang with the guys” (and put up with a lot of guy sh1t because I want to be perceived as cool and not like other girls)

        4. It’s from Grey’s Anatomy, “pick me! Choose me! Love me!” – the needy, begging a guy to like you instead of choosing them.

      2. Ugh I used to be such a pick me. I used to be not just a pick me woman, but a pick me environmentalist, pick me anti-capitalist etc. It was so sad to want to be liked so badly I’d ignore my own principles. But, I am not like that anymore I will not endlessly tolerate sh*tty behaviour. It has meant losing a lot of friends and family though.

    5. I learned that it’s my job to be kind, not nice. If people are uncomfortable with me not being “nice,” that’s their own problem. Pretty much everything stems from that: it’s my job to be graceful when declining a date, not to “be nice and give him a chance.” It’s my job to be straightforward and even-toned with frenemies, in-laws, whomever it is who is being blatantly rude, not to be “nice” and not make a scene. Men are making gross comments? Buh-bye.

        1. I love this! I am going to use this phrasing with my teenager who struggles with being too nice.

    6. I dated a string of people that treated me pretty badly, and if I ever have to date again, I’d rather be alone than put up with that kind of person for any length of time.

      While I still do a lot of volunteering, I’m much more protective of my time/effort and I drop out if I really do hate it.

    7. Younger me spent the first several years of my career waiting to be given permission to do things, or waiting for people to give me opportunities, rather than just jumping in, doing the work, and/or seizing the opportunities. Older me has no time for that nonsense.

  19. My back has been incredibly tight. I have a deep tissue massage scheduled for tomorrow and am trying to get into a chiropractor soon, but any ideas for relief in the interim? I’m sure the tightness is stress related (also have a knot in my neck), but I need ideas to deal with the current pain!

      1. I was just telling a friend last night that I wish my current apartment had a bathtub because a bath would feel amazing.

        Will have to order a foam roller – I only have one of those sticks for rolling out and there are no longer any sporting goods stores in my city.

        3. If you have a firm ball like a lacrosse or tennis ball, you can stand against a wall with the ball in between and kind of rub your back. It can really work well to get out knots. You might also be interested in the Trigger Point Therapy workbook. It’s all tips about how to massage yourself depending on where you have pain. I’ve gotten a lot of mileage out of it.

    3. Take Advil, then take a shower, then stretch straight out of the shower (lots of spinal twists on the floor), then lay on the floor on a yoga mat and rest/watch TV/scroll your phone.

      In lieu of a foam roller, a tennis ball might help. (or a lacrosse ball)

    6. I have this issue and an acupressure mat helps me. They look like torture devices but absolute help when my back is spasming.

    7. I’ve had surprisingly good luck with massage balls. Just put ’em down on the floor and roll around with the affected part on top of ’em. Not very dignified but it helps a lot.

  20. At what point is it reasonable to push for something, for your extended IL family, that your DH does not support (that’s the short question)? AITA?
    We have always been fairly close to DH’s extended family, especially since many of them are local to us. Holidays, birthdays, random weekend cookouts, etc. Family were our occasional sitters, etc. At some point years ago we had a decision to make (like how much to give as a gift or something, it was fairly low stakes) and I said, “Well, it’s YOUR family so tell me how you want to handle it” and DH said “No, they are OUR family. They’re as much your family as mine, at this point.” Which was nice (we’ve been together a long time and some of the younger adults legit do not remember a time when I wasn’t around, apparently).
    So, COVID. Naturally we were not all on the same page, some feelings got hurt, and DH has been playing this “We’re getting frozen out for being careful” thing. He’s now saying things like, of course we would NEVER do Thanksgiving with them again, etc (Yes, I realize that this is probably mostly his hurt feelings, reject-them-before-they-reject-you, etc). I’m more in the “ehhh we’ve all had a hard couple years, I’m happy to be the bigger person here.” But again, despite his earlier comment I don’t want to “go around” DH since it really is his family of origin.
    So – now there’s a birthday invite for a baby that was born during COVID (so we have not met the baby but whatever). We actually can’t attend that day, have prior commitments, for real. In previous years we would have just brought the baby’s gift to whatever the next celebration was and let it go… no worries. DH just declined the invite, and I suspect that it was a “push the evite button that says decline” with no explanation. I was told about the invite AFTER he declined.
    I really want to send the baby a small gift, with a note that says we’re so sorry we couldn’t attend but hope you have a fun birthday, etc. DH is pushing back and saying things like “We’re never going to see these people again, we do not need to send a gift.”
    I am actually thinking of reaching out and getting the address and just quietly sending a gift on the side. If it was my family, I would do it as a matter of course and it would be NBD. Is that a terrible idea? Do I just let this go? And yeah… now that I’m typing this out, I recognize that it’s probably time for a real talk with DH, which will not go well. There’s a pattern here of rejecting family and it’s starting to get old (and means I know how this conversation is going to go).

    1. Nope. Don’t go behind his back to deal directly with his family. There are very limited circumstances in which you can do that, and this is absolutely not one of them. Honestly I would just let this go rather than trying to talk to your DH. He doesn’t want to have a relationship with these family members and it’s not your place to force him to.

    2. No, let DH handle his family and you handle yours. It already sounds like you were in charge of gifts for them, which he as a grown man should be doing. So if he’s not inclined to gift or attend, let him decide that for himself.

    3. I think you should send a gift, especially if it’s what you would otherwise do without the drama. It’s a new baby! Your husband is the one being weird about a simple gesture.

      1. I agree with sending the gift but I would 100% tell your husband before you do it. There just too much of a chance of someone sending him a text thanking him for the gift and it blowing up in your face.

    5. I don’t think you should just send a gift but I do think you need to continue the conversation with him

      1. This. I think he gets to make the final call but also after all this time you definitely have standing to push back further. Do you think a session or two of couples counseling would be helpful?

    6. The issue here seems to be that your husband is making sweeping “never see again” vows about multiple members of his family. This is a BIG deal. Is this the way he’s going to live? Is this the way he’s going to “force” you to live? Will you decide to go along with these declarations?

      1. Thanks, everyone, I appreciate the responses!
        This is my biggest issue tbh – the sweeping “obv we are cutting all these people from our lives” – and it’s really based on the fact that ONE person got hurt, and appears to have gone low/no contact with us. The couple with the baby are NOT in the middle of the drama. These are people that we have spent major holidays with for several decades. Now when his dad mentions something in passing, DH can’t even just say “Oh that’s nice” and let it go – he cuts his dad off and won’t even let him finish. Someone recently had surgery and I don’t even know what for bc DH would not let his dad finish.
        I guess I sorta feel like I’ve lost a big piece of MY family, and my kids’ family, and I’m not convinced it was necessary, and that makes me sad :-(
        I do think I will bring up the gift thing again, though. We would have gotten the baby a gift, no question (and DH would have taken care of it, didn’t mean to imply otherwise).

      2. Wait, what? He is going to force her to live this way? She is proposing to force her husband to maintain contact with members of his family of origin whom he finds repugnant, which seems wrong.

    7. Does DH just not care that much about them or is he cutting them out? If DH just doesn’t care to send gifts but you want to, then I think it’s ok to send gifts. You have a relationship with these people too. However, if DH is actively cutting off this couple because, say, he thinks their Covid response was morally reprehensible, then I don’t think you should go behind his back to maintain the relationship.

    8. I’d send a classic children’s book or similar with a note on the lines you indicated. Your DH is right that you don’t ‘need’ to do it but it is certainly kind to acknowledge the birthday of a baby who has zero responsibility for the decisions of the parents. Acknowledging the birthday with a small gift doesn’t mean they being invited over for Thanksgiving and everything is good again.

    9. DH honestly sounds despondent/ depressed — that’s such a sad way to think about family! I agree not to go behind his back — this needs to be a conversation — but I would at least send a card with a small Target gift card and let him know you did it.

      1. Maybe he’s not depressed. Maybe his family are a bunch of no-good Covidiots.

      2. I think you need to let people deal with their own families as they see fit, and it doesn’t mean they’re depressed.

        I am low contact with one of my sisters for very valid reasons that my husband agrees with, and I would be extremely hurt if he tried to maintain a relationship with her behind my back. That would feel so disloyal after all she’s done to me.

        OP should consider her spouse’s feelings first.

        1. +1. You must be very lucky to have really awesome family and in-laws if you think wanting to distance yourself from family means you’re depressed. Sure, depressed people may do this, but plenty of non-depressed people do it too for very valid reasons.

          1. I’m so sorry. I said it wrong. You’re right that no one has an obligation to like or want to see their family, and families can be pretty messed up. In this isolated case, DH’s responses sound like hurt, black or white, thinking to me as opposed to a rational decision to set boundaries.

        2. Yeah, not everyone has the kind of family that they want to maintain a relationship with, and no one has an obligation to maintain a relationship with a$$holes who behave recklessly. It doesn’t mean that OP’s husband is depressed. Maybe he’s just cutting his losses.

          1. Oh I don’t mean spouse shouldn’t get to set boundaries for manipulative or narcissistic family. Sounds like it’s a single person and incident, though. That’s different than long-term problems, and it sounds like spouse is extrapolating it to all family. It’s worth being cautious that that’s not a pandemic anxiety based overreaction.

    10. I would tell him that you want to send a gift anyway unless there’s something truly serious causing this rift. Maybe you can send it to one of his immediately family members to bring for you. But I think you should tell him you’re planning to do it and why and not do it behind his back.

  21. You know that moment when you’re not as disorganized as you think you are but you have all those little pieces of projects floating around and you’re just like…. “ugh” trying to get your brain together?

    Yah. That’s where I’m at. I know I just need to buckle down and do item 1, and then item 2, and eventually I’ll be re-aligned with where I need/want to be but my pile o’ stuff is so messy right now.

    1. I set a timer and physically write out the ‘stuff’ that needs to happen or notes on it for ~10 minutes. The physical act of writing helps me feel like I’ve got more of a handle on it and then I can order the list/group things together/etc. much more easily than I can mentally or via online tools.
      I got a surprising amount of annoying ‘stuff’ done via a notebook in my dentists waiting room the other day. I think I’m converted to always carrying around a notebook/pen like my mom did for lists/notes.
      Good luck!

  22. You guys, I had my brows micro bladed and I’m so happy with it I needed to share.

    My natural brows are light brown and sparse. If I didn’t use eye pencil they were invisible in photos, which never looks good.

    I looked around and found a place that does really natural looking brows – I don’t need to go from nothing to sharpie brows, I just wanted to look like I had eyebrows.

    It’s been almost a month and I haven’t had my touch up yet but after I went through the phases – redness, darkening, flaking, too light – now they’re just right. And they’re supposed to last a year. This is honestly the best thing I’ve done for myself in ages. Not an ad I swear, but if you want to see some similar brows you can look on Oakland Glow’s Instagram page, 5th pic. That’s not me but the after pic is fairly similar to where I am now, though I had less brow than that model had in the before.

    1. Why would you go through a month of bad brows, plus presumably another month of bad brows from the touch-up, for results that only last a year?

      1. Read again. She didn’t say bad brows she said phases. My natural brows look great but I can totally see the appeal of doing this so you are not drawing your brows on every morning.

      2. It’s a huge difference, and the bad brows still looked good from a normal distance. I was just obsessing about them in my makeup mirror.

      3. Cup half empty, cup half full? You see two months of the year with less than ideal brows. I see ten months of nice brows I don’t have to screw around with every morning just to make it look like I have brows. (Not the OP, but I sure can relate to her).

        1. I also think “they last a year” doesn’t mean they’re completely gone in a year. They just get faded and if you want to keep it up, you go in for some new ink.

      4. OP again, just looked through my selfies and it hasn’t been a month since my appointment. It has been 2 1/2 weeks! (I guess I was thinking a month because I had it done in August – 8/21 to be exact). My redness was only for the first two days. Darkening happened by the end of those two days and lasted another couple of days, then the flaking for maybe 2-3 days.

        Then when all the flaking was done my brows looked kind of light. Still more brow than before but lighter than I expected. So I looked it up online and it said that’s part of the healing process, so I just waited and they’ve just gotten darker (but not dark because I didn’t want them dark, that was part of choosing the ink color) and now this week they’re the color I expected.

        I used to have dozens of eye pencils and I haven’t used once since my appointment. I have been wearing some clear brow gel to keep my brow hairs straight but I’d probably be fine without it. That’s when I do my makeup. The nicest part has been having brows when I don’t do my makeup. Which is at least 50% of the time for me.

    2. Please do keep us in the loop on how it lasts. I’m considering doing this myself.

      1. I will. My touch up is Oct 1. (Touch up at six weeks is apparently standard the first time you do this)

        1. Yes, that was the timing of my sessions too. I’m at exactly one year post initial microblading and it was the best (frivolous, self-indulgent) time and money I spent in a long time. I went through a bit of an early mid-life crisis last year and had my eye brows done, professionally bleached my teeth, got a personal yoga instructor, joined CycleBar, etc., and I am still most excited about the microblading. They have faded a bit but still look 100% better than before I had them done initially, and I will be scheduling a touch up soon.

      1. Mine was $500 in a VHCOL area – not sure what it is in other areas. I’m also very very cautious and picky and saw cheaper places, but I went to the place that had photos that looked like what I wanted.

      2. Mine was $650 (initial application plus second touch up). Annual (optional) touch ups are $300. In NJ.

    4. Yay! I did this too and have my touch up later this month. Mine did lighten more than expected but I still HAVE EYEBROWS and the guidelines of how to add to them, which is amazing!

    1. That was a good laugh – they just need to include that people can now get paid for getting the vaccines, which helps to enrage the already vaccinated even more.

  24. I want to get a photo printed and framed. I know I can just do it myself, but since its for a gift I’d like to do professionally. Are there any online services you’ve used for things like this?

    1. I just looked into this. KeepsakeFrames.com is the cheapest but also the best interface. It takes the picture and it recommends size based on the resolution. Furthermore, it will show you what your picture looks like with all their frames whereas with other sites you have to look at each frame option one by one.

  26. Going off that convo about keeping a house clean . . .

    I am having a very tough time keeping a 1 bedroom apartment clean, especially when I am working from home and here all day. This is the first time I have lived by myself and I love my apartment in general, had fun decorating it, etc. But I think that before when I lived with roommates I primarily had my room to worry about and shared other responsibilities with roommates. Maybe? I also may be a bit depressed, working on that separately. And I do not like working from home at all.

    I guess I need a cleaning schedule. To pick up after myself better (put it away not down)? Clean for 20 minutes each day? What has worked for ya’ll?

    Please don’t tell me not be lazy or something like that, I know, but I need help. Right now as I look around my issues are that the dishwasher needs to be emptied and put away, dirty dishes put into the dishwasher, clean up the kitchen in general, refill tissues/soap/other stuff that has run out, throw away some amazon boxes that have built up, unpack an IKEA box, and make my bed/put away clothes.

    1. I usually clean up the kitchen at after dinner or before I go to bed, run the dishwasher, and empty it in the morning. That keeps that area clean. The rest I kind of do ad-hoc, but I’ll like clean the bathroom once a week, laundry once a week, etc.

    2. Are you the kind of person who works well with a schedule, or do you tend to rebel against a schedule?

      There are several bloggers who have posted home-cleaning schedules, which I can follow for approximately two days before I give up and don’t clean at all for a week.

      BUT. I do a combo:
      1) I will force myself to do one “tidy up” item each time I take a break from work. So when I next refill my water bottle, I’ll also empty the dishwasher. Then when I need to go to the bathroom, I’ll put away my laundry. It’s as if I would have stopped and said hi to someone in the office, but I’m getting a cleaner apartment.
      2) I do one bigger item each night before I relax after work. It might be a load of laundry, it might be putting together a shelf, it might be vacuuming the whole place.

      That means that I usually have only one or two things left at the end of the week to deal with – usually cleaning the bathroom and doing a load of towels/ sheets. Sometimes I’ve done them during the week if I really wanted to procrastinate on a project, but other times I do them on Saturday morning before 10am. I don’t know why I picked that random time, but it stuck and now I just know that each Saturday morning I do the awful stuff and then the rest of the weekend is free for being lazy.

    3. I am also one who procrastinates emptying the dishwasher and then kick myself for procrastinating because it takes me all of 5 minutes to empty it and put dirty dishes into it. Do you like challenge? Set a timer on your phone for 15 minutes and see how many of those tasks you can get done? I don’t really follow a cleaning schedule but I typically do laundry on Saturdays so I have Sunday to make sure it’s all folded and put away. I clean both bathrooms on Sundays plus oddball things like dusting or whatever. The kitchen gets wiped down after dinner every night. I aim to be ‘house’ productive during the 5-6pm time frame – I usually log-off my work computer around 5 and DH gets home at 6. I try my hardest to do at least one productive thing like vacuuming or dusting downstairs or cleaning up something, anything!

    4. Is it cleaning like dusting, vacuuming, using wet cloths, etc that you hate, or is it tidying?

      I find I procrastinate the deeper cleaning stuff, but as long as my space is tidy and uncluttered, I feel better about it, which then makes me more inclined to “clean.”

      So for me, tidying is not optional. Clutter is just stuff that isn’t in the right place. I force myself to deal with that issue and find a space for it, because I know that having clean sight lines and nothing on the floor (like those amazon boxes) will make me feel SO much better.

      Like, just now I was eating lunch and looking around at things that bugged me, so I told myself that when I was done eating, I’d recycle the newspaper that was still sitting on the chair from Sunday (my husband always thinks he’ll get around to reading more articles), put my son’s flannel shirt in the laundry, and put away the two cookbooks I had out on the table. So I had a mental list of three things, and I even somewhat embarrassingly talked to myself while doing the three things. “Newspaper,” as I picked it up. “Shirt,” as I put it on the washing machine. “Cookbooks,” as I walked back to the dining room to get them. And that was my deal with myself. I only had to do those three things. But because I was in that mode, I also felt like emptying the compost bowl into the outside bin and washing it, wiping down the kitchen counter (NOT deep cleaning it) and taking a package that came in today’s mail upstairs. It’s just little things like this, and all you have to do is promise yourself that you just have to do two or three things and not overhaul your whole house.

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