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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 207 Comments · by

Frugal Wednesday’s TPS Report: Drape Front Jersey Top

The Personal Shopper (TPS)· Under $150

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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Robbi & Nikki Drape Front Jersey TopThis interesting draped jersey top caught my eye a few weeks ago, and I keep coming back to it — I love the shade of purple, and it seems flattering and very modern, but in a relaxed and comfortable way. I think it would look great with a long cardigan and ankle pants for a casual day, or perhaps belted with a pencil skirt. It’s $54 at Nordstrom (also available in a black floral print). Robbi & Nikki Drape Front Jersey Top Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com. (L-2)  

Workwear sales of note for 12.4.23

Our favorites are in bold!

Kid- and Family-Related Sales

  • Crate&kids – Toy & gift event: up to 50% off everything; save 10% off full-price items
  • J.Crew Crewcuts – Up to 50% off holiday favorites; 30% off almost everything else
  • Ergobaby – Cyber Week deals still available!
  • Graco – Up to 30% off car seats, strollers, travel systems & home; 30% off Graco Premier
  • Walmart – Up to 25% off top baby gifts; big savings on Delta, Graco, VTech, Fisher-Price & more

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Comments

  1. Pantsuit

    Since my black pantsuit died, I have been on the hunt for a new wool one, hopefully lined, with a blazer-styled jacket that is a bit shorter (so not the 1035 from J Crew, sadly) and with pants that will fit my slightly-pear-shaped bottom. I was thinking black, but I’ve noticed that after two seasons in black, Carrie Matheson is in a grey suit this year on Homeland (so maybe grey? and what are they — they seem to wear like iron). If it’s my only pantsuit, do I even think about pinstripes?

    Hoping that sale gods will smile on me with this.

    • Killer Kitten Heels

      No on stripes if it’s your only suit – I think pinstripes are more memorable, so if there are times you’re planning on wearing it repeatedly over a short period, it’ll start to get the “ohhey it’s Pantsuit’s only suit again!” look about it. If you’re using it to replace a black pant suit, I think a super-dark charcoal gray would work.

      As for suits themselves, if you’re thinking investment-quality, I’d vote for Brooks Brothers, since their fit seems to track what you’re describing. If you’re in need of a lower price point, I’d recommend the Lands End washable suiting line. I got one of these suits during the last sale, and so far have been really, really pleased with the fit and quality (I’m a pear, and the curvy pants fit well). The suit is not 100% wool, but the pants and jacket are fully lined, and I think the cut is similar to Brooks Brothers.

    • Gail the Goldfish

      if you’re not actually petite, try the petite size of the 1035 jacket and it might be the length you’re looking for. Just go up one size from what you would be in regular. I’m usually a 2 in blazers, and the 4P 1035 length worked perfectly (I’m not super tall and don’t have terribly long arms, so if you’re taller than about 5’6″ or 5’7″, this may not work)

      • Pantsuit

        Good idea! 30% off JCrew in today’s e-mail, so this may be worth a shot (I’m 5-4, so borderline petite).

    • AIMS

      I was pleasantly surprised by the new suiting from Banana Republic. They changed the fit, which used to never work for me before. It’s 95% wool, with just enough stretch to be comfy, light enough to wear year round, has no cheap looking details, the jacket is fairly flattering and not too long (although I had to get petite) and the pants come in various fits, inc. Martin which would seem to work for your shape. Comes in black and a nice, bright navy, and if you want more versatility, you can also get the matching pencil skirt. Not sure how it will hold up, but giving up on BR for a few years I think maybe they’ve finally stopped their slippery decline (or maybe this is a lucky fluke).

      As for Carrie’s suits, I think the secret is that she has multiples of the same one for filming, hence the wear like iron feeling.

      • hellskitchen

        Same here. My basic black suit from BR that I got a couple of years ago has held up very well. I think there were complaints about their quality back then too but perhaps suiting is exempt from it

        • TheElms

          Ditto. My BR black suit from 2009 ( I think) is only now just starting to show signs of wear and even then its only the pants and I wear it a lot because it fits so well. I find the Jackson fit in pants works best for my very pear shaped bottom half.

    • Wannabe Runner

      Try Talbots. They have a “younger” selection online and via catalog than in their stores.

    • Amy H.

      What about the Sidney jacket from Crew? It comes in the same fabrics, you can pair it with the Hutton trouser (which has worked very well for pear-shaped me for trousers).

  2. DC Summer

    Hi, Hive. Sorry for the early threadjack. My boyfriend and I are considering moving in together next year. What questions do you think we should ask each other and what are some of the most important things we should think about as we make our decision and select a place to live? We will be looking in the DC area if that matters, and I’ll be starting a clerkship while he finishes school. We’ve been together a little over a year now but it will have been 2 years at that point. He stays at my place 4-ish nights a week anyway and we’ve traveled together, but I know it’s not the same. Thanks!

    • Lady Tetra

      I’d strongly suggest a 1-br over a studio, if you can afford it. Having another room where you can go and shut the door is very important, especially if you have different sleep/work schedules. Also depending on your budget, a place with 1.5 baths (full + powder room) might be worth it. Just my experience, but my BF takes really long showers and sometimes you don’t want to wait!

      Discuss cleaning/chores ahead of time, but be flexible and see how things go when you actually move in together. The most important thing, I think, is to discuss annoyances and problems right when they come up, and don’t let them go thinking they will change by themselves.

      • DC Summer

        Great advice. I love the idea of the 1.5 bath. I wish we could afford a 2-bedroom but I don’t think it will be feasible at this point. Thanks!

    • NOLA

      You’ll need to talk about finances – who will pay for what, or how you will divide expenses, especially since you’ll be working and he’ll be in school. And household chores – who will do what and how you will back each other up. And space! Very important. What space will each of you have. How will you balance together vs alone time. That may affect what size place you get.

      That’s all I can think of for now. Good luck!

      • Anon

        My boyfriend and I started a joint checking account for groceries and shared expenses (electricity, gas, etc) when we moved in together. It’s worked really well for us and it’s nice not to have all the hassle of “I paid for groceries last time, but it was more expensive so you pay this time and also buy ___ next time…” If it’s something you and your partner might be comfortable with, I highly recommend it! Our contributions to the joint account are based on our income levels.

      • anon a mouse

        I was a lot like you (many years ago). The change from 4-5 nights a week together (and living in the same neighborhood) to living together was not a big change. It was exciting and natural and fun.

        The one thing that we really had to navigate was space and alone time. I hadn’t realized how much I needed some quiet time at regular intervals until we were in the same apartment and I couldn’t go be by myself at home for a few hours. Luckily the layout of our place made it easy for us to have separate spaces, but in a different place I would have had a hard time.

        • Wannabe Runner

          +1 on this. Think about how your schedules interact. I like alone time, and time for hobbies like crafting. If he’s always in the apartment, he may be wanting you to spend time with him during times you now spend alone. And vice versa – he might need more alone time.

          And quiet time. Does he prefer to have music or podcasts on when he’s at home? Do you prefer having the tv on?

          Talk about how you’ll pay for things, which I’m sure you will.

          Have either of you lived with roommates before?

    • Clementine

      Talk about Expectations and Fairness.

      For example: What do you both expect to spend? What do you both expect the other to do? If one is a student and has a more flexible schedule, is it reasonable that they might do more of the housework?

      How will money work? There are several ways of doing this, figure out what’s best for both of you.

      Expectations and Fairness. You know the details of your life, but talk about those two big ‘umbrella’ topics. In our premarital counseling, the person counseling us mentioned that 90% of relationships that he saw break down came down to either having different expectations/understandings of what was expected of them or feeling that they were somehow being treated ‘unfairly’ in the relationship. Also, good luck! It’s really fun to actually live together, as opposed to having sleepovers.

      • Double-Bingo

        I think it’s also important to approach the Fairness conversation by being open to the idea that “fair” doesn’t always mean “equal,” ie 50/50 split. DH and I try to remember this in our ongoing conversations about finances, household responsibilities, etc.

        • CountC

          +1 – my boyfriend and I make very different amounts of money and I made it clear that I was more than willing to pay my share, but it had to match the proportion of our incomes. He agrees this is a very fair way to do it, even though it may not look equal on paper. Similarly, my commute is double his and he eats for free at work, so we discussed who would make dinner, how often, etc., so that everyone’s expectations were managed in that area.

    • Anon

      If you were my daughter, I’d ask you if you love him and want to be married to him (not someday, theoretically, but very soon), does he want to be married to you (not theoretically, but now). If you don’t have that level of commitment, I’d ask why you’d want to live together in a way that seems to present you with the downsides of commitment (you are off the market, it would be hard to leave if you broke up, you won’t meet your husband if he is someone else while you are living with the BF) with no upside (so like the savings of a mere roommate but with all sorts of baggage).

      There’s a book called something like 100 questions to ask before you get married and while this isn’t that situation, it does give a lot of discussion topics for couples to have (and if this freaks out either of you, I think you have your answer — maybe a non-BF roommate can help save $ if that is at all a concern).

      FWIW, I don’t have a moral problem with living together, but I think it’s easy to start living together without the serious discussions that come with getting married. At that point, you’re stuck in all the ways that a person in a bad marriage is stuck, but without its benefits (if your husband dies, you are often provided for, not so with a mere roommate; if your husband is in the hospital, they call the wife but not the GF — they call the BF’s parents). I think it’s different for people who are much older (e.g., 50s, grown children) and for people who are very clear that they are OK with the status quo even if that is forever. But I think I’ve seen too often that one person has hopes that for living together to end one way and the other person really doesn’t (and some of that is often willful blindness or thinking / hoping that living together will change that).

      • DC Summer

        All good things to think about. We’ve been having some of these discussions and will continue to have them over the next year. I’ll check out that book, too. Thanks!

      • A Nonny Moose

        I was going to suggest that book as well. I think it’s 1001 questions to ask before you get married.

      • lucy stone

        I’ll also recommend that book. My husband bought it probably 5 years ago, well before we got engaged, and we went over the questions together on a road trip.

      • EB

        Much, much shorter than 1001 questions, but if you google “276 questions to ask before you get married” there is a free list. The site is connact dot com. Some of the questions are very basic and you’ll probably already know the answers, but some are really good.

        I’d also discuss how you’ll be splitting finances beyond utilities/rent/etc., such as groceries, cleaning supplies, toilet paper, paper towels, detergent. Also, have a discussion on what you both think of as “clean”. To me it means deep clean. To my SO, it means no clutter. We’ve lived together for about a year and a half and we’re just finally starting to figure out how to keep both of us happy in terms of a clean house.

        Also, talk about alone time to avoid hurt feelings later.

      • ITDS

        Great answer. My first reaction to the question was that the first question should be “will you marry me”, but you’ve expanded that very nicely!

    • kjoirishlastname

      I’d also say you should talk about The Future. Does this look like it is The Relationship? If so, then maybe buying is a decent decision. If not, if anyone is unsure, I wouldn’t be buying at all now, especially in DC.
      Discuss kids. If the relationship is going down That Path (or even if it isn’t, and you end up preggo…), what are his thoughts (and yours) about child-rearing? My then-boyfriend/now-husband changed my mind about having kids. I had wanted them forever, that’s what I thought I would do. But, he showed me how awesome it would be to never have kids, and I was totally 100% ok with that. We got married with the intent of never having kids. He changed his mind, and now we have 2.
      But yeah, what the other ladies say too: cleaning/chores, cooking, finances (maybe you both hate cleaning–are you willing to shell out for a service?) Talk about your friends and his friends. Talk about alone time. Talk about vacation planning. Talk about personal space. Is he going to have his buddies over 3 nights a week to play video games? Do you have a book club?

      • preg 3L

        Also — this might sound ridiculous — but talk about TV time & phone time. I never watch the TV shows I enjoy when DH is home because we have one TV and he will not put up with Kardashians/Bethenny/Real Housewives/etc. For me, not a big sacrifice (I didn’t have a TV in my dorm in college, TV has never been a huge thing for me). I also rarely talk on the phone when DH is home because I feel awkward about it. It’s totally my own thing, but when I talk to my girlfriends, I like to be able to talk about DH! So it might just turn into a scheduling thing (you can each have one late night out of the apartment every week, being at school or happy hour or whatever), but it was an unexpected consequence of moving in together.

        • Anon

          My H would have a TV in every room if it all possible and would watch it to go to sleep. And a garage bigger than the house with a TV in there.

          I’d prefer one TV not in the bedroom.

          We joke that we’d really like to have adjoining houses — it is very much a compromise to live with someone even if you are married. I have an elderly relative who got remarried to a widow after his wife died and I (and all of the parties’ children) was all WHY? In that circumstance, I cannot imagine dealing with that (or even living together).

          • Olivia Pope

            I think Tim Burton and Helena Bonham Carter have adjoining houses, so you are the first person to think of that.

          • Parfait

            I have some friends who have apartments in the same building, but different floors. I am so incredibly jealous. That seems perfect.

    • TBK

      What are your expectations for the relationship? Are you 98% sure you want to get married (and have talked about getting married) but are just making sure that you can share space, money, chores before you seal the deal? Or do you both expect to just let it go along and see what happens? If the former, what’s your timeline? A year? Shorter? Longer? Spell this out for each other; don’t just assume you’re on the same page. If the latter, do you have the structure in place to break up? That is, is there a way for one of you to move out? What I would be worried about is staying with someone and trying to make it work, and winding up married because living together made moving out and breaking up too difficult. People often work through all the hard stuff before getting married because they know it’s a really big deal, but fall down on doing this work when it’s “just” moving in together. But the “just” moving in together slowly becomes getting married, except the stakes are now so high it’s too scary to have the difficult talks. Ultimately, though, it’s way more difficult to divorce (especially with kids) than to break up. So if you plan to get engaged soon, definitely have all the important conversations. But if you don’t plan to get engaged soon, make the commitment to still have all those conversations before you get married and be ready to break up if you find marriage isn’t right for you.

      • Chiming in

        My brother moved in with his GF when they bought a house together. They got engaged. She was crazy. He wanted to cancel the wedding and our family urged him to. He just couldn’t handle the pressure of being the guy who stopped the wedding and then he’d still have to deal with the house. They got married. He was miserable. He wanted to get divorced in the first year. She got pregnant. He stayed. She became abusive and they eventually divorced. She’s been arrested a few times. I feel bad for my nephew and bad for my brother. The stakes were too high to exit the situation and it just kept getting worse and the stakes just kept getting higher.

        • DC Summer

          :-O that sounds awful!!

          Thanks everyone for your thoughtful advice–it is giving me a lot to think about.

    • Ellen

      Yay! I am comeing to this post late, so alot of the hive has already comented about moving in with a boyfreind. I will try to be CONCISE about my thought’s on this issue, b/c I had do deal with this.

      Yes, I agree that FINANCE’S must be discused right away. B/c I had money comeing in from dad, I alway’s had my own place, but Alan kind of moved in after a while b/c he knew he had a place to sleep and get his dirty laundry cleaned by my housekeeper (dad paying of course), and also he ALWAYS knew where the food was in the refregierator that my housekeeper stocked (and dad paid for), and even the wine and beer, also stocked by my housekeeper but dad paid for. In short, he had a place to eat and poop that was covered by me and dad, and all he had to do is NOTHING but drink. FOOEY on THAT.

      The next thing I had to come to grip’s with was the MARRAGE thing. Alan knew I wanted to be MARRIED, but alway’s p’ostponed it, saying it was for later, and b/c we got along sexueally, that should be good enough for now. He also knew I wanted kid’s, but was very carful NOT to have risky sex with me. I finaly learned that the onley way to get men to pay attention is NOT to give away the cow for free, even though the milk was also availabel. My freind’s told me to avoid haveing sex and that will get attention from men who will then start doeing rather then talkeing. Alan was to drunk most of the time to care. FOOEY on that.

      Once money and sex is figured out, you then have to make sure you can realy live with a guy 24/7. Most guy’s are OK for an hour or 2, but do you realy want them around 24/7, stinkeing up the toilet (or the living room–which is worse) and burpeing while you are trying to watch TV? If the answer is NO, then do NOT moove in with him.

      It is hard to judge, but try and go on a vacation with him somewhere first, where you will be with him for 3 day’s or so. Some of his worst trate’s will come out and you can determine wether it is goieng to be worth it to have him eateing, sleepeing, burpeing and farteing up your bed 24/7 if he move’s in with you. It is a tough decision and that is why dad wanted Alan NOT to take up with me full time unless we were MARRIED. Dad was right.

      I did meet Vikram yesterday, BTW, and he was different. I had a littel troubel understanding what he was saying, but he has family back home that he send’s money to. He is nice enough, and he said we were compateble b/c of when I was born and him, and we could have many children together. I hardley know him and already he has me bearing his children? This may be a culture thing, Myrna says, because her freind never said to HER that he wanted her to bear him children. He is also from somewhere over seas. I will have to check with her where Olak’s family is from, but I think somewhere in Europe or sSouth America. Where are the NORMAL guy’s from the East Coast of USA? Are there any left who are eligibel and willing to MARRY and support me? DOUBEL FOOEY!

      I am goeing home soon to make Yam Stuffing for mom’s feast tomorrow. I hope it turn’s out good. YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Romey

      DC Summer, congrats on moving in with the bf. :) I think you should talk about finances and how you’re going to split rent, utilities, groceries and all of those shared expenses. But I honestly wouldn’t go into a crazy, in depth conversation about who’s doing dishes and who’s making the bed and doing the chores and this is your side and this is my side. Although it depends on your relationship and your personalities I suppose.

    • KLG

      If you don’t end up staying together (not saying you won’t), splitting up is like a mini-divorce in terms of splitting up your stuff. When you move in together you only buy one of everything and when you split up, there’s only one set of pots and pans, one TV, one copy of your favorite DVD, etc. Certainly many people live together and go on to get married, etc. but I moved in with 2 long term boyfriends and later broke up with both of them and after that decided I wasn’t moving in with anyone I wasn’t ready to marry immediately.

      • Monday

        It’s interesting–my parents were married over 30 years (until my Dad died) and as a kid I noticed that all of their old records were Sharpie-marked with either my mom’s name or my dad’s name. My mom told me they’d done it when they moved in together in their early twenties because they wanted to be clear about whose was whose if they ever split up. Obviously they were in it for good, as it turned out, but it strikes me as a very practical and wise deal between two like-minded people who shared values of fairness and 70s rock.

      • Sydney Bristow

        I recommend this as well. My boyfriend and I have bought very few things together but we keep track of who bought what for the apartment and agreed to buy each other out on the jointly owned things if necessary.

        One other thing we discussed that I don’t see mentioned is who will move out if you do break up. I moved into my boyfriend’s apartment but we agreed that both of us would move out if we broke up. You don’t want to feel like you need to get out of the other person’s space at a time like that.

        I also agree that you should discuss finances (not just how you’ll split expenses but also talk out debt and asset issues so you go into it with your eyes wide open), cleaning habits/plans, spaces you can go if you need to be alone/after an argument (my boyfriend tends to hang out in the bedroom and I’m in the living room), marriage/pets/kids thoughts, etc.

        Good luck!

      • Wannabe Runner

        I also lived with a guy in my 20s. A few years later, I bought a condo and made the same promise – the only other roommate I will ever have will be a guy I want to get married to.

    • L

      Money. Cleaning/chores (in depth at some point once you’re actually living together). Dinner/cooking. People over. And yes, what you guys will do if you break up prior to lease expiring (or stay together, but need to live sep. for whatever reasons).

      You will fight and you will get over it.

    • SH

      I’m currently living with my boyfriend, in the 1bd condo he bought in DC; we moved in together in July. We had been talking about it for almost a year before the moving truck showed up, with progressive conversations that started with, “The realtor’s coming on Saturday, I want you to come with.” For me, I wasn’t comfortable with money being the main reason why we would live together, and I said it couldn’t be in the top five reasons, and I wouldn’t move in with him until it wasn’t in the top five anymore. In our case, it worked out because the condo needed some work, and so he moved in with me into my little studio for a few months after his lease was up and the condo wasn’t finished yet (this was easier for me to think about because it had a deadline, more or less). At the end, my reasons were: 1)More time with him, 2)Becoming a Sesame-Street-style family (him, me, my cat), 3)Starting to make a life together, since that’s what we were planning on doing anyway, 4)Insurance that this was the right thing to do, and 5)if we could live happily together in a studio with me working, him studying, and all his stuff all over the place, then we must be OK. :-)

    • lhh

      Definitely talk about finances. When my boyfriend and I moved in together he was in graduate school. We split bills and rent, I paid for most of the groceries. Fast forward a year and a half, he bought the house we live in and pays for the majority of the mortgage (he makes significantly more than I do). I think you have to trust your SO and be clear if things do not appear fair. With one person working and the other in school, it easily to feel taken advantage of.

      Goodluck!

    • DC Wonkette

      I highly recommend having “the talk” before you move in together just to make sure you are on the same page expectations-wise with where the relationship is going. Also you will need to cut each other a little slack when you first move in as you figure out what things really push your buttons… For me, I realized I need about 5 minutes after I walk in the door to set down my stuff, change my clothes, and decompress from work before I was ready to talk to anyone.

      In terms of where you move, make sure you agree on basic parameters before you start looking, so no one feels pressured into accepting a “good deal.” Shaw and NoMa are all the rage now and you can get a little bit more for your money. H St is also more reasonable but not metro-accessible. Highly recommend having at least two “spaces” so that you can hang out separately.

      Good luck!

  4. preg 3L

    PSA: I just received a Lands End catalogue with a coupon code! 30% off (& free shipping with minimum $50 order). Promotion Code: DREAM, Pin: 4195. Valid until December 3.

  5. Janie

    Any tips of sharing an office with multiple officemates? I’m a government lawyer and after a year in a tiny, tiny office with one person I’m moving into a much bigger office with 3 others next week. I’m going to have much more space (yey!) and my new officemates are some of my best friends at work. But our job revolves around meeting with people (in our office) and talking on the phone, so I’m concerned that the level of noise is going to drive me insane. I’m also concerned about us all continuing to get along when we going to be stuck together all day every day… TIA!

    • Cb

      I share an office with 7 and while we aren’t typically on the phone, it can be a bit noisy. Maybe setting ground rules for off-topic chatter? Also, make sure your headphones don’t massively project (oops, this was me yesterday).

  6. Alcoanon

    Reaching out to you ladies for a question that’s hard to discuss with my friends/family. Have any of you struggled with alcoholism?

    I am clearly dependent on alcohol – most weeks, I have 4 drinks four-five days. On weekends, I’ll drink upwards of 7 or 8 beverages. Wine, liquor, anything. I have a hard time stopping once I start, and I crave booze at a certain time of the night.

     Drinking is both a way to de-stress from my crazy life (hectic finance job, finishing grad school, adjunct teaching) and a seemingly mandatory social activity. I’m young (24), single, and everyone I know seems to drink this much.

    The main reason I want to reduce my alcohol intake is weight – I’ve gained 30+ lbs since I started drinking so heavily. It’s not negatively impacting my job, relationships, etc.

    Everything I read says you have to quit completely. That’s what my therapist, who’s concerned about my drinking, says too. But I enjoy drinking with friends, on dates, etc. Have any of you had luck cutting back? E.g., no booze on weekdays. Tips?

    Another question is what to do/have instead? Yoga helps, but when I didn’t drink last night I ended up having 300 calories of chocolate. Obviously not helping with the weight loss…

    • DC Summer

      I know it’s not the answer you’re looking for, but I tried for almost five years to just “cut back” and was never successful before I stopped drinking altogether. I’m your age, 25. I would always say “I’ll just have 3 drinks” or something…and then I would spend the whole night thinking about what the three drinks would be, how I should space them out, how “good” I was being, how weird it was not to be drunk, etc…and I would not have as much fun. Then the next time I would be so congratulatory for how good I had been and just get drunk anyway. The line that stuck out to me is that “I have a hard time stopping once I start.” That’s how I felt as well and finally I just had to admit to myself that I couldn’t drink like the people who can easily stop once they start. So I just decided to stop.

      There are times when I miss it (a glass of wine with dinner seems so harmless, or a beer after work) but on balance it’s better– I’ve stopped gaining weight and lost a little, I no longer worry about having done something stupid or that I will embarrass myself, my sleeping patterns are more regular, I sleep better period because I’m not falling asleep drunk, and I’m never hungover (my hangovers were getting OUT OF CONTROL). I still go to all the same social activities, even karaoke at bars and dance clubs. But I just drink club soda with a lime. Or I’ll treat myself to a Shirley Temple or have cranberry juice/seltzer. It was a weird change at first but I also found that what’s most important for me is holding a drink, drinking the drink, being able to go get a new drink as a way to exit conversations, and so on–what’s in the cup is less important. I do find that I get tired at a more consistent time so I have to leave things early, which kind of sucks, but I make an appearance and have a good time.

      Getting up early has helped too. I know I can do it because I won’t be hungover so I make plans for the morning (even just laundry or studying) and that helps.

      Whatever you decide: GOOD LUCK. It’s not easy but I believe in you!

      • jc

        +1 to the still going out/club soda or sprite with a lime – people don’t know the difference!

        • emeralds

          Agreed. I felt like my drinking was getting out of control when I was an undergrad–very much the “once I start, I can’t stop” feeling–and I snapped myself out of it by just holding a Solo cup of water or Sprite at all times. For me, it made me feel so much less conspicuous, so I didn’t feel like I was being judged for not drinking (not that anyone would have, I now realize).

    • NOLA

      If you are truly alcohol-dependent, then yes, not drinking at all is the best way to go. That said, I have gone through stages in my life where I drank a lot more, due to lifestyle. In my mid-20s, I hung with a crowd that drank a lot on weekends. To excess. I used to go to sing at church hungover and think nothing of it. During my marriage, when things were getting bad, I was drinking a lot of wine and got very overweight. At one point, I decided that I would cut waaay back on drinking as part of a weightloss program. I only drank one glass at a time and never on the same night I had dessert. It was hard because the stress and problems in my marriage were still there, but willpower won out. Since my divorce, I generally only drink socially. Since I’m now in my late 40s, I don’t have friends who drink as much socially and I’m not often in situations where I’m drinking. And I don’t really miss it! I enjoy it when I have a drink or two. In fact, I’d gotten where I was hardly drinking at all (maybe once a month) until I gave myself permission to have a glass of wine on Saturday nights. Not drinking now because of medications. So that all said, if it is truly part of lifestyle, you can change it or it will change over time. You could drink when out with friends but not alone. Or give yourself a quota As for what I do instead, I just… don’t. I don’t think about it.

      • Anon

        Nola, this is my dream! I’m pregnant now and pleased with how easy it was to instantly stop drinking, and thinking I’m only going to drink socially once my body is my own again. The problem is I had been including “watching tv with my husband” as social time and we would easily split a bottle together… I found it next to impossible to lose weight before, almost entirely because of the wine. (Nights out usually involved at least one cocktail too…). I’m really amazed how easy it was to stop drinking, how little I miss it, and how much seltzer with a splash of juice is a great drink both at home and out. (I’m 37… Always drank a lot, much more when I was single and out on the town, but the trick was that I never drank alone so it only became a problem, weight wise, when I hooked up with my husband. Aside from some rough mornings and the damned extra weight, no repercussions really to my life.)

    • jc

      I don’t struggle with alcoholism, but my grandfather did for pretty much his entire adult life until it killed him.

      You say that the main reason you want to quit is weight and not your health in general. You might want to look more into that because I think if you aren’t fully committed to getting and staying healthy, it could be really hard to quit and stay on track.

      That said, due to an illness and medication I’ve taken, I’ve had to quit drinking almost entirely. It definitely sucks at first, but you get used to it and you get used to deflecting people’s questions about why you don’t drink. It is certainly something you have to be committed to though, or it’s easy to fall back into it.

      I’m sorry you’re going through this, I hope you get well! Good luck!

    • al-anon

      I’m married to an alcoholic. He has now been sober since january 2010, and says it was the best decision he ever made. I was at the breaking point of leaving with my first child, pregnant with my second.

      He quit cold turkey, went to AA meetings for a while, but decided not to anymore, because why would he want to be in a room full of people talking about the thing they all left behind. We did counseling, he did counseling, and it affected (and still affects) our lives in ways I never knew were related…Bill-paying, responsibility, emotional maturity. Basically, he had numbed every emotion he ever had, good, bad or otherwise, with alcohol. And then he woke up to an angry, depressed, stressed pregnant mother, and had to figure out (at 45) how to deal with emotions in a healthy way. He still struggles. We both do, and it is a lifelong process. I have no doubt in my mind that he is genuinely happy with his situation now, but things were very very dark. He often thought of suicide (which he didn’t reveal to me until much later). I often wished he would just hit me so that I could leave and have a “good reason.” It was terrible. I lost so many years of my life with him, years of my life walking around on eggshells in utter, gripping fear that I was going to say the wrong thing and start the next argument. We both just shut down.

      He ended up on a variety of anxiety & depression medications while he was quitting (and may still be on some, I don’t know, but I don’t think so), and I think that they were a good tool for coping.

      There was something that I read (I think Kat posted it on the weekend open thread about pervasiveness of covert alcoholism) that said it’s not the last drink that gets you drunk, it’s the first. That was the case with my DH. He could never stop at one. Or two. With true alcoholism, there isn’t a middle ground. You’re either stone-cold-sober, or you’re drunk/well-on-your-way.

      In any case, I really do hope you get help. It is a crippling disease, and you may have no idea how it affects the others in your life.

      Good luck.

      • Anon

        “because why would he want to be in a room full of people talking about the thing they all left behind”

        This is exactly why I tried, but ultimately stopped attending, Al-Anon meetings. I found individual therapy to be much more beneficial. Listening to a bunch of other people talk about their sh*t didn’t help me move past my own. It was always, always, a depressing hour. YMMV.

        • SoCalAtty

          I only went once for the same reason. I agree that individual therapy was much more helpful.

          • Senior Attorney

            I seem to recall from my stint in grad school that one of the most successful treatment modes for alcohol abuse is couples counseling.

          • Lady Harriet

            It definitely depends on the person. My mom comes from a family of alcoholics (brother and grandparents) and was married to one (not my dad.) She’s been in Al-Anon for 30 years and says it’s the most helpful thing in her whole life, much more so than therapy ever was. Hearing everyone else’s problems makes her really grateful for the ones she has because they seem so minor by comparison. All the alcoholics in her family are either sober (brother) or dead (everyone else), but there’s plenty of other addiction in our family–eating disorders, compulsive shopping, and hoarding.

          • Lady Harriet

            Also, I’m the same age as you and even though I don’t even like most alcohol I make a very conscious effort to limit my drinking because there’s such a history of addictive behavior in my family. I have a low alcohol tolerance, so I never have more than one drink in a night and I only drink when I’m happy so that it doesn’t become an emotional crutch. Fortunately, most of my local friends aren’t heavy drinkers either, so we all tend to only have one drink when going out.

            I don’t think alcohol will be a problem for me, but there are definitely other areas of my life where the family tendencies rear their head. (I have a love of thrift stores which could easily morph into my parents’ hoarding problems if I’m not careful.)

      • Anon

        I think you’re very brave to post your story. Thank you. Kudos to you for sticking through the dark, dark days and having the courage to share your advice with others.

    • Anonymous

      Your therapist might be right– but if you want to try to cut back before going cold turkey, here are a few suggestions:

      -go work out at night. If you know you are going to the gym after dinner, you can’t have that wine. When you get home, you’ll have less time to drink and (if you’re like me) you won’t want to completely undo the work you just put in at the gym with empty calories.
      -create a different after work ritual that signals that it’s time to wind down. Have tea. Put on your slippers. Like you said, take a yoga class or do a video at home.
      -when you go out, after the first 2 drinks tell yourself firmly that you do not need more to have fun. Drink slowly. If you can’t stay out without continuing to drink, go home.

      I drink probably a beer 3-4 nights a week with dinner and more on the weekend, so not quite as much as you, but I”ve been trying to cut back because of weight loss. The extra calories were killing me. I’ve had success with the first and third suggestion. Hope that is helpful!

      • Anon

        Yeah, I think that this is the most important thing. Finding other activities.

        I recently went through a bit of a rough time personally on a couple fronts and realized what was a glass of wine while cooking/eating dinner had turned into 3 or 4 a night. (I very much identified with the blog post from lisa posted above.) It wasn’t good. It was starting to affect my sleep and frankly I was scared that this was the beginning of dependence.

        I realized that at least to start, while I was going through this rough patch, I just couldn’t keep wine in my house, because the temptation was too strong. I do the same with double stuff oreos. I don’t buy either of them because I know once I open it, I will just keep going back for more. I am in my 30s so my peers now drink less on week nights and our odd nights out on weekends that veer towards heavier drinking are infrequent enough not to cause too much alarm so really, it was the sad drinking alone that was really worrying for me.

        Hang in there and know you are not alone. This is a brave thing you are doing.

        • Anon in NYC

          +1 on creating new rituals/activities. My friend (who is in recovery) fills his time with so many activities – running, cycling, movies, plays, and random things that people never think about (dog shows, flower shows, etc.). It helps him, a lot.

        • Marise

          I’m not an expert, but it does sound like you are walking down a dangerous path and need to reverse course. I think it would help to change your social circle. Commit to a gym with group exercise at least two-three times a week at night. Spin class, cross fit classes, etc. Or take up indoor climbing, join a volleyball league, etc. Getting into a new rhythm with other single people while exercising will keep you away from alcohol and help you stay fit and healthy. The good news is, you’re recognizing you may have a problem and looking for a solution. Big hugs!

    • preg 3L

      I think you’d like sarahjenks.com for help on changing your mindset toward alcohol and food. Good luck; this is really hard stuff.

      • Anonymous

        Why do you keep recommending this woman? She has nothing to do with overcoming alcoholism.

        • preg 3L

          You’re absolutely right. It sounds like the OP has an otherwise full life, and so I thought rather than joining the chorus of alcoholism stories, I would suggest someone who addresses relationships with food (since the OP mentioned eating a bunch of chocolate once when she tried to forego wine). I think someone so young, admitting something so scary deserves all of the resources that commenters on this board can suggest. I certainly didn’t mean to offend with my recommendation.

      • Pink

        She might have nothign to do with alcoholism, but clicked over for various reasons and am bummed I missed the last workshop. She sounds great and so thank you for posting since I don’t think I’d have heard about her otherwise!

    • Anonymous

      I think everyone gave great advice, I just wanted to throw in a bit of caution. Alcohol withdrawal is one of the worst and more dangerous withdrawals, so if you are going to quit entirely you should check with your physician to do it safely. Don’t be embarrassed or afraid to ask for help. People who care about you will be more supportive than you think.

      Also an anecdote. I was recently visiting a family member in rehab and they had a group meeting where all of the patients had to say what they learned they needed to do to stay sober. One woman said she learned she can’t have just one drink, because her last just one drink landed her in rehab for the 3rd time. Not to say you can’t have just one, but there are definitely people who cannot.

      • Anon

        +1 to your last point. My father is an alcoholic and he cannot, absolutely cannot, have “just one” drink. It is all or nothing for him.

        In contrast, however, he can smoke a single cigarette about 2-3 times per year and never want to touch another one in the interim. And he probably spent a good decade in his youth being a pack-a-day smoker.

        Addiction is a strange disease, and it works differently for everyone.

      • kjoirishlastname

        Speaking as a medic, this is true. The physical symptoms of alcohol withdrawal can be very dangerous, including fatal. The advice to seek medical attention during your quitting, if that is the road you decide to take is spot on.

      • KLG

        This. There is lots of functional and non-functional alchoholism in both sides of my family. When my functional aunt quit drinking cold turkey she ended up in a coma in the hospital. She ended up being fine but it was obviously a terrible experience for all involved.

        Best of luck figuring it all out.

      • SoCalAtty

        I’ll add my second to this one. Drinking at that rate, the detox if you quit cold turkey isn’t going to be super fun. It is, however, something you can do gradually and maybe even with a doctor’s supervision. I’ve had friends have to do it this way, and when your drinking is all plotted out on a chart with how many drinks you HAVE to have in a day instead of WANT to have in a day, it can sometimes become its own deterrent.

        That being said, this is SERIOUS. If I could make those words leap off the page here, I would. I watched my mother drink herself to death. She was so smart, such a great, funny person…and she just addled her brain with it. She was only about 2 years younger than you when she really got going. She died at 51. My brother was only 17, and I was 28.

        She called her self “functional” too – but she wasn’t. At the quantities you’re listing, I seriously doubt you are performing at your best. You could be impacting your career and not even be aware of it!

        You are saying this is your way to de-stress. Well, it is time to find a new de-stressing routine. Pick up yoga. Heck, pick up tap dancing – do whatever might make you happy, so long as it is fun and not stressful. It is all about habits, and remember habits can take 2 weeks or more to break, and at least that long to form.

        I understand the compulsion – I do. I’ve been addicted to various substances throughout my life, but have been able to realize it soon enough to stop. Once you get the alcohol under control, since you have the propensity to become dependent on something, you will always have to be careful. I recently talked about my lemon eating habit and getting veneers on my front teeth. Make no mistake, that is Addiction with a capitol “A.” I started it because we had a tree in our yard, and I would spend a lot of time outside “hiding” from my messed up family. I hid in the lemon tree, and would sit out there and eat lemons. When I moved out, I found that I HAD to have a lemon to relax when I got home. Don’t laugh, I’m not making it up!! The first thing I did when we bought a house was to plant a lemon tree. I still mow through the stupid things when they are ripe. I now have to get veneers on my front teeth because there is no enamel.

        Now just think how silly that sounds. You HAVE to have a lemon? You CAN’T just have one? That’s kind of ridiculous. But true. So there it is. Addiction is addiction, and you’ve got to address it now otherwise you’re not only risking your health, but your career, and your future.

        I KNOW that I am hard wired to grab on to something and become dependent on it. When I was in New Orleans earlier this month, we were drinking for about 5 days straight. I had a blast, and that was about 4-5 drinks/day. I never was really “drunk,” but I could feel it. When I got home Sunday night, I got up and went to work Monday and was fine. When we went for dinner Monday night, I wanted a drink…for no reason other than to have one. I’m a “special occasion” drinker – I only drink at events, out of town, or if out of town friends are in town. 5 days in New Orleans flipped my switches just enough to get it started, but, terrified of my mother’s fate, I knew what it was.

        Alcohol is very easy to pick up. Almost impossible to put down. I’ve seen articles that show quitting alcohol can be almost as hard as quitting heroin. Please, please get help with this – either from your doctor, AA if that helps, or find a therapist. Specifically one that can help you with addiction. It is SO helpful, after you’ve kicked this (and I’m telling you that you will if you want to), to have a therapist that is fully briefed in your issues/life that you can just drop in on if things start to go sideways!

        Good luck, and we’re rooting for you.

        • Al-anon

          +1 on the Addiction is Addiction thing. That is one thing that my dh said/says. He is also a behaviorist, and so understands a lot of the nuances of both human and animal psyche (he was a phd candidate in behavioral psych, missing only the dissertation before the completion of his doctorate). What he says which rings true in every instance I can imagine is that most people at wired to be addicted to something. For SoCal, it is lemons. For my dh, it was alcohol. The difference in people with a “practicing” addiction and those who don’t seem to be or aren’t addicted to anything is that those folks just haven’t found the right substance. Alcohol doesn’t do it for me. Never has, and certainly doesn’t now (though we do keep beer and wine in the house for the very few occasions that I just need a beer with my pizza). Maybe my substance is shrooms. Or heroin. I just don’t know because I won’t go down those paths. But what has happened is that you have found your substance, readily available (and legal) and you are walking that line.

          But my very real addiction, which is more of a self-destructive impulse-control behavioral issue (like cutting) is nail biting, which is co morbid with a lot of depressive and anxiety disorders too. I used to be much worse, but I still struggle to this day. The difference is that I am not going to potentially ruin lives by nail-biting.

          Might sound odd, but if you live in a state with legal pot, I would kick the alcohol in favor of pot if I were you. Similar buzz, rare and infrequent negative side effects and none of the hangover remorse the next day.

          I really do wish you the best and it sounds like you have a lot of good suggestions from the other ladies. “They” always say that denial is the first step but it sounds like you are over that and recognize it as a problem. It is up to you how much leeway you give yourself in trying to combat it, DH went through a lot of stints of “I just won’t drink as much” and none of them ever worked.

          He says I knew what I was getting into when we started dating and then married but it is also a progressive disease that won’t get better until you stop feeding it. It was far worse by the time he quit than when I started into the picture. Maybe my tolerance for it decreased but it was no fun to essentially be a single parent with an angry belligerent roommate that you keep throwing money at for no return. It cost us a lot of actual money. Think of what you will save when you aren’t buying cases anymore.

          All over the board. Apologies, me I am interested to hear your response to the feedback you have gotten from everyone who has had some really poignant thoughts.

          • Silvercurls

            @Al-Anon: **This** comment is REALLY for YOU (sorry for using Ellen caps; I’m having a hard time positioning my comments!):
            Thanks. Just thanks. I’m sure you’ve helped people besides myself and OP. I’m also glad your DH is now in a better place. I wish you & your family well in the future.

        • Silvercurls

          +1,000 on this: “It is SO helpful, after you’ve kicked this … to have a therapist that is fully briefed in your issues/life that you can just drop in on if things start to go sideways!”

          Your story is also making me reconsider my own unhealthy compulsions (food not alcohol; not yet full-blown, life-destroying addiction, but definitely something to resolve). Thanks.

        • Silvercurls

          My reply to you ended up below Al-Anon’s comment. Site navigation fail. :-(

        • Silvercurls

          @SoCalAtty: Third attempt to reply to your comment–see below Al-Anon’s post. I hope!

    • L

      I am not a therapist, but your post is just so sad. Girl, you’re 24! You have your whole life ahead of you. Weight isn’t the issue. Hell, alcohol probably isn’t the issue. You’re avoiding something – growing up, coping skills, I don’t know but alcohol isn’t the answer, neither is chocolate (or my personal favorite cheese). The question shouldn’t be about alcohol or weight loss, but what is driving you to make poor choices for yourself. You’re young and yes, everyone goes through that phase. I was there and you can ‘snap’ out of it, but some people do a lot of damage before they get there. There is always going to be a ‘reason’ for something to escape to; life is hard. Work with your therapist to figure out better ways to deal with life, stop drinking, and actually start really living.

      • saltylady

        I agree with this. At 24, I can see drinking a lot on the weekends, maybe just Saturday night. I can also see drinking a glass of wine/one drink at night, usually older people (like me) are more likely to do that than to binge drink. But a lot of alcohol every night plus heavy drinking when going out on the weekends, that’s a problem, and it’s way more than just weight.

    • Mandala

      In my early twenties I drank like this for a lot of the same reasons (social, winding down, because I like it). I also noticed weight gain, which led to concessions like I’ll have two beers but no dinner, which made the drinking more disastrous. This gradually went away and it’s been about 3 years since I’ve had ‘too much’ to drink (more than 2 drinks for me). I started doing a few things: removing myself/purposefully going no consumption in over-drinking trigger contexts (large groups of people, after a stressful day (I shopped instead…), fun holiday parties (4th of july, halloween). Only drinking @ happy hours, etc, if I am also eating. Looking back my drinking was dysfunctional during a particularly destabilized time in my life (early 20s is like that for a lot of people) and my drinking habits really changed when my life started to stabilize (content in job, able to pay rent, moving my professional life forward, in a relationship/made new friends)

    • No Problem

      Full disclosure: I’ve never been dependent on alcohol (or other substances) or know anyone personally who has. I do have one friend who was possibly borderline dependent on alcohol, but he quit drinking several years ago and his life is immensely better (lost weight, better job, met his amazing fiancee, etc.). That said:

      I’m going to challenge you on your assertion that this is not affecting your job or your relationships. I have a hard time believing that having four drinks every night after work does not affect your work the next day. Are you hung over the next morning? Sluggish? Can’t focus before noon? Just because your manager and coworkers haven’t said anything doesn’t mean they haven’t noticed. And…have you asked your friends/roommates/dates how they think your alcohol consumption affects your relationships with them?

      As for other things to do, what about a specific goal-oriented thing? Like doing C25K, or mastering specific poses in yoga? Or learning how to quilt or knit or cook Indian food? Or replacing one drinking night per week with an ongoing volunteer activity?

      Alcohol dependence is a real, serious disease. Congrats on recognizing it in yourself, and for reaching out for help. Keep seeing your therapist and seek additional professional help if you need it. Good luck to you.

    • TO Lawyer

      I get where you’re coming from because I find as a single professional in a big city, my entire social life revolves around drinks or drinks with dinner and when I tried to cut it out, I often just stopped hanging out with my friends.

      What if you try different things with your friends? Brunch? Workouts?

      I’ve actually managed to cut back this year, mostly because I now have a hard time sleeping (or rather staying asleep) with too many drinks so I limit myself to 2 drinks on weekdays. To be perfectly honest, it was hard at first but once I started sleeping better and feeling better the day after, it became an easier thing to do once I was out.

      Something else you may want to try is not having alcohol at home. I find if I have wine at home, I’ll have a glass when I get home, even if I don’t really want it but many nights, if I don’t have a bottle waiting for me, I won’t even miss it.

      Good luck! This is really hard and I think it’s great that you’re asking for advice at this stage.

      Also, read the Atlantic article Kat posted on the news roundup last friday – it was definitely a good (and scary) read.

    • Esquared

      Amid privelidge had a great post about being a little too dependent on alcohol and cutting back. There actually has been a lot of discussion lately about how the persistence of supporting only programs like AA hurts a lot of addicts, esp those who have tried those programs over & over again and have failed at them. NPR did a great segment with David Sheff on his experience with these programs and his son’s addictions.
      Anyway anecdotally, I think a lot of us in really high stress fields are guilty of alcohol over-consumption… I’ve definitely noticed personally that my 1 or 2 glasses of wine a week has become 1 or 2 (or 3 or 4) a night & it’s something I look forward too in what I think is an unhealthy way. One thing I find that helps me scale back is to make very clear limits (example: no drinking at home, only at restaurants with food).

      • saltylady

        For me it started when I had kids, oddly enough. I wasn’t getting out much, so a glass of wine at 5pm sharp is a treat, right? And then years went by and it was every night, like clockwork. For awhile it was stretching into two glasses– three or more on (rare) weekend nights out, or dinner parties where it just keeps flowing. I’m in the process of scaling it back. My parents aren’t alcoholics . . . but they do drink just like this, every single night a glass or two of wine. It’s like the overachiever/perfectionist/yuppie way to be an alcoholic or something. I actually thought everyone did it, or at least my friends who always drink at parties or happy hour. But then in talking to people I realized that, no, most other people don’t drink wine every single night without fail.

        • Hel-lo

          Bingo. I have a family member like this. She is the first to say that alcohol “doesn’t affect her life” when actually it only doesn’t affect her job.

          After-dinner family time is not as fun after her few glasses of wine, and her husband tells me he isn’t able to have any serious discussions with her after 8pm. She prohibits the family from traveling anywhere that doesn’t serve alcohol, and that’s actually pretty restrictive for that family.

          You don’t have to be falling down drunk for alcohol to be a problem in your family.

      • CPA to be

        I used to drink just like that/sometimes still do too, saltylady… +1 on the “overachiever/ perfectionist/ yuppie way to be an alcoholic “… I have never heard it put that way, but I think you are absolutely correct.

        I personally have problem with wine that I don’t with beer or liquor. If I have a beer, I’m done drinking. If I have a martini, I’m done 80% of the time. If I have a glass of wine? Then I want as much wine as my body can physically hold. When I don’t want to drink a lot, I’ll have a beer on purpose rather than wine. When I noticed how my wine drinking was starting to get a little bit out of hand (nightly glass was turning into two nightly glasses was turning into two fuller nightly glasses) I stopped keeping wine in the house. It has helped a lot. If I have good self control at the booze store, I don’t need to have self control in my house.

    • Parfait

      I found my drinking creeping up beyond what I was comfortable with and I have managed to rein it in using the Two Drink Maximum or “Glass Ceiling” system outlined here:

      http://www.everydaysystems.com/glassceiling/

      Two drinks (as defined by the DMV! no pouring a tumbler full of vodka and calling it one!) is your maximum in any given calendar day. On a Saturday night out with friends, the day begins again at midnight and you may have two more, but that’s it for your Sunday allotment too.

      Replacing with other habits is going to be key too, lots of good suggestions from the other commenters.

      If you can’t do this, then consider all the other good advices about overcoming alcoholism. My best to you! I have struggled similarly and I empathize.

    • OG Lawyer

      I also believe I’m alcoholic, but my pattern is different than everyone who posted below or probably now, above. To start with, I’ll say my mother was a full-time total alcoholic. All day, all night. I’d come home from school and she’d be passed out on the floor. My half-sister is so alcoholic she is homeless and all of her children have permanently been taken from her.

      As for myself, I can take or leave alcohol. The most I have ever drunk while out is when I take my husband to his birthday dinner. I have a martini before dinner and a glass of wine I usually don’t finish. I feel no compulsion to drink when out with friends, and at most have a glass and 1/2 of wine. I’m pretty much indifferent to alcohol, EXCEPT wine in the middle of the night.

      I have a glass of wine with dinner, maybe 1/2 of one before. However, I have world class insomnia. I’ve gone to two sleep clinics and confirmed I do not sleep. I’m wired wrong. So, with the doctor’s approval, I take a 12.5 ambien every night. However, the generic is miserable; I need two, even three to sleep just a few hours. At some point, I discovered that going down to the refrigerator and drinking chardonnay straight from the bottle seems to kick start the ambien. (Red wine doesn’t work at all, and we don’t bring square bottles into our house because our son, who hates wine, loves hard liquor. (He’s 22.) Of course, then I have to get up every hour to go to the bathroom, which wakes me up, and down I go for more chardonnay. At present, I go thru nearly a bottle a day/night. I wouldn’t give a damn, but I’ve gained 25 pounds. I can’t exercise because I have bust up knees — both of ’em, and am awaiting artificial knees. However, I am having a double mastectomy for cancer next week and can’t do water sports either. Also can’t get the new knees until the cancer is gone.

      I am famous in my little neck of the woods, on TV, in the newspaper, blah, blah, and I present to my doctors and my therapist as a together, albeit moderately depressed and anxious person. I can”t bring myself to tell them I drink too much. My husband and son have no idea because this all happens when they are sound asleep. I hide my bottles (so pathetic!) once a week at a public trash can.

      My last physical showed perfect liver scores, even tho I’d been drinking a bottle a day/night for more than a year. I know alcohol is bad for breast cancer (my mother and her 5 sisters died from it), but really, I just can’t stop. I can’t stand, can’t bear, can’t tolerate not sleeping, I don’t know why. I’ve asked my doctor for more sleeping pills, but he declines. (Further TMI, I was sexually molested by my stepfather for several years in the middle of the night, and I’m still afraid to sleep even tho the trauma was decades ago. Doctors think fear of sleep is hard-wired in me because of the many years of sexual abuse when I was so young.)

      I hate the weight gain; I’ve always been slender and now I’m not. I feel I can’t tell anyone IRL about this, especially my doctors who think I’m so upright. And if they think I’m alcoholic, then they won’t prescribe pain meds for my ruined knees.

      Like Alcoanon, I seek advice. I’m not the typical alcoholic who drinks till the bottle is empty; I don’t care about fitting in and I don’t need to hold a drink as a I wander around a party. I drink in the night, and sometimes early morning for sleep. I just retired so I don’t worry about work and I’ve never had a hangover. I did have a problem my last year at work; I had a hard time getting to work on time — that can happen when you gurgle a few sips of wine at 5 am.

      And, OP, I’m so so sympathetic. Hugs to you, so many hugs.

      Any advice? I’ll check on Sunday, but I fear this being the holiday week-end, no body will read this, and I’ll be too embarrassed to write about it again. Besides, I’m having my breasts removed Mon. morning.

      Thanks.

      • May

        This is definitely a problem, and I don’t need to tell you that!

        Could you get the doctor supposed to treat your insomnia involved here?

        Drinking till you are drunk enough to sleep is just a really sad thing.

        Hugs!

      • IT Chick in MN

        OG Lawyer, ooohhhh do I hear you about the insomnia and trauma. You may want to seek out a therapist who works with EMDR therapy. This is an increasingly well-researched type of therapy which is very effective for dealing with this type of trauma. It was astoundingly effective for me in healing from a single assault at 12. It’s a longer road when there are multiple traumas to process, but it still works. My therapist uses an analogy of filing. When there is trauma, the brain cannot figure out how to file this overwhelming experience. So it just bounces around your brain and causes problems. EMDR helps your brain package the experience so it can be filed.

        Once you’ve managed to file the trauma, there is another area of growing research: cognitive behavioral therapy for sleep. Thanks to the amazing plasticity of our brains, you may be able to teach your brain how to sleep.

        I’m willing to be that you feel like some kind of weird freak with this. You aren’t alone and there are tools that you can use to get where you want to be.

  7. For those with many children

    I see that some posters have 3+ children and are working. First, WOW! Second — can you share some of your secrets? I am thinking that with >= 3, at least one is in school even if they aren’t all, so you have a complex schedule to deal with and >= 1 child with school holidays and summers off.

    My husband works and I have a teen stepchild and we have 2 small children of our own (one of whom may start TK in January at a regular school), so the schedule complexity is about to skyrocket. At this point, I wish I didn’t work in a profession that considers the workday to end around 7 each day, because even with school, my children might want to do things like sports or play with friends (or heaven forbid they get sick ever).

    • CKB

      I have 3 school aged children (8, 11 and 13) and a dh who subcontracts part time from home, but has worked full time off & on during our parenting years. His unstable work is the main reason I went back to work full time when our youngest was 2. Totally honestly, when both of us are working full time it is HARD. Right now all 3 are in school full time, and dh works from home p/t. It makes it so much easier for dr/dentist appts, sports, playdates, etc to have a parent that has a flexible schedule. Dh’s last full time job was with a post secondary institution in a non-teaching role, and had tons of PTO. 4 weeks vacation plus a week at Christmas plus a flex day each month (as long as you took it Monday or Friday) plus 10 or 15 sick days (can’t remember which). We never had to worry about what to do with the kids when there was a PD day or if one got sick. My job allows me to work from home on occasion, and I get 7 sick days per year that I can take if one of the kids is sick.

      Totally honestly I always knew I wanted to be a mom, and planned my career accordingly. I got married young and had my children young (#3 was born shortly after I turned 30) Until my youngest was 2 I worked part time from home. Now I’m at a level in my career that I have less flexibility, but thankfully dh has been able to pick up the slack at home. I have no idea how 2 working full time in demanding job parents do it. Unless they have a nanny or lots of outside help.

      One thing that is absolutely key in making our family run smoothly, though, is that we consider our family a team. Our family motto is ‘Team Lastname’. Dh & I work very, very, very hard at not keeping score & stepping in and doing what needs to be done when it needs to be done based on who can most easily do it. The boys get in on it too. They know they are part of the team and have roles to play on that team.

      • Anonymous

        You and your husband always sound like such great parents to your boys, and I am totally stealing “team lastname” when I have kids.

        • CKB

          Thank you, that’s so sweet. We do try our best. They are definitely the most important part of our lives right now.

    • tesyaa

      I have SIX kids and work full time. My secret is that I stayed home for NINE years. I have a professional designation which is desirable and hard to get, which is the ONLY reason I was able to get back into the workforce. Even though it worked for me, I don’t recommend being a SAHM for a long stretch and trying to get back into your field like I did, because it’s just too risky. Some of my kids have special needs (non-medical). I have no social or personal life to speak of other than work and taking care of my home/family. I’m not unhappy because I love my family and I love my job, but honestly, if you plan to ever have “me” time, it won’t happen. And get a driving nanny for all the schedule complications.

      • For those with many children

        Wow! I am so impressed (just to have 6, much less a job on top of that).

        My grandparents were in families of 8+, but they all lived on farms (so everyone worked, but in a very different way) and in a world that expected you to be on your own when you were 18. Whenever I see large families (in my world, that is 3 children as opposed to 1 or 2), I sit back and try to watch and learn (but I am usually at work, so those opportunities are rare).

      • AIMS

        @Tesyaa: Not sure if you saw my response to you from yesterday but (totally unrelated to this thread) you can make your turkey with parchment wrapping instead of the plastic bag if you’re concerned about dryness but don’t want to get any grief over the plastic.
        PS: 6 kids! Color me very impressed!!

        • tesyaa

          Thanks for the turkey update! Still haven’t decided whether to cover or not cover.

        • Hel-lo

          Whoa! This looks a lot snarkier in print than I meant it.

          I mean it sincerely – I’m amazed by the grace that many mothers have. Sounds like you’re doing everything right.

    • 3 Kids

      I am a partner in a BigLaw firm and have 3 kids–two in elementary school and one new baby. Husband has a more 9-5 schedule and went part time with addition of #3, working 4 days a week. The way it works for me is that husband is the primary caregiver for the kids. At best, it’s 60/40, and, at worst, it’s 90/10. He usually stays home when they are sick; he usually does doctor’s appointments; he does daycare pickup every day; he cooks dinner during the week; he knows what the kids have going on at school that they need to do something for/bring something for/wear something for. I do daycare drop off, and I usually make it to their evening extracurriculars. I also tend to not work a lot of weekends, so I handle laundry and grocery shopping most of the time. Honestly though, we have to limit extracurriculars. Usually one per child at a time. We have a big color-coded calendar that keeps us on track for who has to be where when.

      I really believe that one career has to take precedence, and in our marriage that is mine. Husband’s job is just not as intense as mine, and he’s more suited by nature to be the primary caregiver. We both enjoy the high salary that comes with my job, and his career just doesn’t have that earning potential ever. I would love for him to just be a SAHD, but he’s not on board (yet).

      So, my advice is good help, a good calendar system, and a spouse who is truly a partner in all the crazy.

      • cbackson

        I am really hoping to make partner at my BigLaw firm in a few years, and it’s so helpful to me to read this. I often feel like I have no one to look to in terms of women who’ve made partner and who have children, and worry that it’ll just never work out (I’m single, so it’s not a current issue, but, you know, I’d like it to be an issue, if I’m making sense).

    • saltylady

      My husband and I both work full time, but reasonable hours– someone is home by 5 most nights. But it’s still complex because school gets out at like 2. We recently switched from an afterschool program to an afterschool babysitter who drives. She works 1:30-5:30pm four days a week and it has been so great. The kids can get to wherever they need to go, and they can have kids over for playdates. She helps with homework and makes them practice piano. Then pretty much everything from 5-6pm on is dinner and family time.

      • For those with many children

        This sounds great and I wonder if that’s the road we will go down. My mother taught school, so while I appreciated that she worked, I can see how it was a great help that her schedule was our schedule and it was OK if I came to her room after school (and I even helped out with bulletin boards, etc.)

    • Diana Barry

      My kids are younger – one in school and one in preschool, and a toddler – so we don’t have lots of activities yet. We have a nanny and I have an early schedule (home at 5) and DH works from home. It is basically impossible to have 2 hard-charging careers and a bunch of kids, unless you have a nanny with super long hours and never see the kids. So my career is less great than it could have been if I had worked FT straight through and been able to stay late, etc.

      • saltylady

        This is so dead on, and I remember it’s the thing many of us realized a couple years in to working at the law firm. How is this going to work if and when I have kids, when no one leaves the office before 7 or 8pm at the earliest, and my husband isn’t planning on being a SAHD or a 10 hour per week from home kind of guy? Do I want to be one of those lawyers who has two nannies, one for day shift and one for night shift? Because (a) that sounds awful, (b) I don’t even like my job enough for that, and (c) the lawyers doing that seem miserable. So yea, I left to go to a boutique and now I’m in house. But I know a few people who are still at firms and manage it because they’re more senior now– however most figure out a way to have one parent home by 6 most nights, one way or another.

    • Hel-lo

      To the OP:

      Your question is how mothers balance between having lots of kids and working jobs that last till 7pm.

      The answer is: They don’t, unless Dad or a nanny is picking up or taking care of the kids.

      This is why many mothers chose jobs with “family friendly” hours, like leaving work at 4:30 or 5 or earlier if they can.

      • For those with many children

        I think it’s the expectation that people are available that late, not that you have to be at work and on the clock and then you clock out. So when I was single with no children, I usused to leave around then and then go to the gym and then do my reading / respond to e-mails on the Metro. Now, I can leave whenever, but it’s white-knucke on the work / drama front since there’s an expectation that others in my industry are available then. So, there’s flexibility (good), but the expectation of availability (bad). I don’t see enough people doing it to know how to do it better. I know y’all exist though!

  8. Ms. Basil E. Frankweiler

    So this morning I let a woman know that she had a hole in the back of her stockings in a pretty awkward position. Sometime in the last hour, I dropped my check card on the street and rather than use it, someone picked it up and returned it to US Bank. How’s that for karma?

  9. kjoirishlastname

    I’ve only got 2–so that doesn’t qualify as “many” according to your standards, but I think the argument is just the same.

    It’s effing hard. Ours are boys 5 and 3, and the oldest is in kindergarten. We have a fulltime nanny (she comes at 745-ish, and leaves around 5-ish. My husband and I both have jobs that require the occasional evening meeting, and having her flexibility is what makes it work for us. She totes the youngest around to preschool and playdates, and she does light housecleaning for us, as well as all kid-associated laundry. So, at this point, we have fulltime daycare, so school holidays aren’t a problem. We do give her 2 weeks paid vacation (one has to coincide with our family vacation), but it does leave us trying to either cobble work schedules together, or find alternate care when she’s out. We do have a pretty decent backup group of sitters, with somewhat limited flexibility.

    In addition, my husband is the chief of our volunteer rescue squad, and I am a medic as well. I’m required to pull 40 hours a month of duty group, and attend training meetings when they don’t conflict with my work (incidentally, my evening meetings happen on the same days of the week as our training and business meetings). We also both have other activities. He hunts, I have a robust social circle of girls (mostly other moms).

    One of the biggest keys to maintaining some semblance of sanity for me is: meal-planning (I plan for a month at a time and it usually takes us 6-8 weeks to get through the 18-20 meals I’ve planned and purchased for, because of this, that, and the other–some days we’ll just fix pbj for the kids, or throw in a pizza which isn’t accounted for in the menu, but always on hand) and household cleaning plans. Even if our nanny didn’t do housekeeping, we stick to the schedule, especially when it comes to laundry. Each person/load of laundry falls on a specific day. Vacuuming is always Monday. Kitchen cleaning is Friday, etc.

    I’m type-A, fairly organized (though our family finances are in shambles), so I do the bulk of keeping the ship running on course. I keep the schedules for school, doctors, etc. I make a lot of lists. I joked with myself yesterday that I made a to-do list that included making 2 other to-do lists on it.

    It’s a moving target, always, and I don’t always feel on top of it all. I find that anti-depressants & anti-anxiety meds help!

    • Hel-lo

      I’d love to plan meals 2 months out! How do you shop for produce though?

      (Also, congrats on all that you do. Incredible.)

      • Kjoirishlastname

        Thanks! Produce is something that we replace on an as-needed basis. Same with milk, snacks to some extent. But the big grocery trips once a month (sometimes 6 weeks) is to purchase any meat, replace pantry staples and any other specialty ingredients for recipes. I try to do our “fresh” meals first (had to do mushroom stuffed acorn squash within a week of purchase) but the bulk of the meat-based dishes I prep when I buy and freeze. I keep a dry-erase calendar (best $4 I spent at Walmart ever) in the kitchen and use it to remind myself when to pull meat/meals out of the freezer, but also to move things around as needed. I ended up not making 2 pod my planned meals last week but they were basically freezer meals so they can just fit into the calendar somewhere else.

        When I prep, if the meal is crockpot or baked, I out everything that I can into one large ziplock and label with instructions and dates. Also whether it is safe for my oldest son who is allergic to dairy. For crockpot meals I can put them into the pot frozen in the morning. I just cut the ziplock away and put it in the pot–when I freeze I make sure that the frozen shape will fit in the pot. I try to incorporate veggies in the crockpot so that there is less need for cooking fresh veggies but we always keep frozen peas and broccoli. We keep home grown carrots in the garage and usually buy fresh broccoli and Brussels sprouts and sometimes parsnips.

        I’ve done the meal planning now 3 times since mid-august and it has paid for itself in spades.

        I appreciate the compliment!

  10. Romey

    Hi ladies and happy Friday! Question for yall…..I’m going to give my secretary $100 for Christmas this year, but do you think I should give anything to the secretary who is her backup when mine is out? She doesn’t assist me on a regular basis but maybe once a month when my secretary is out.

    • wildkitten

      Does she have another boss giving her her own $100? If not – yes. Is there any harm in giving her $25?

    • Godzilla

      Ha Happy Wednesday =).

      Yes, give backup secretary something, even if it’s a box of chocolate. Never anger the admin staff.

      • Romey

        Oh my gosh, why did I think it was Friday?? I am clearly losing it haha thanks Godzilla. :)

        and ok thanks guys….so,do you think a box of chocolates is appropriate then? I would like to get the backup secretary something, but just not sure what is the appropriate amount. I’m 100% ok with giving her $25 but is that such a small amount that she will be offended, or would that anger my main secretary b/c I wouldn’t say that the backup does 25% of the work. Maybe more like 10%.

    • Pink

      Yes. I did something smaller than the monetary gift to my main secretary for all the backup secretaries just to say thank you because they do have the option of saying no to helping you (also builds good will).

  11. Lady Tetra

    My assistant has been having a ton of doctor’s appointments lately (several in the past month, and two next week). I am fine with her being out for health reasons and I definitely want her to get healthy!! But I’m wondering … should I ask her if she’s okay? I’ve only had her for 3 months so I don’t know her well. I definitely don’t want to make her feel any worse about it. I just want to be sympathetic and kind to her, but I’m not sure what would be best. Any ideas?

    • kjoirishlastname

      If you know her ok, and would feel comfortable with her sharing some kind of information like that, then I think it shows a lot of genuine care for her if you just say “Hey, I’ve noticed you’re out a lot for XYZ. Is there anything that I can do?” Maybe it’s something simple like a ton of follow up bloodwork or something because of a medication change (hypothyroid comes to mind), or who knows what else. I don’t think she’d feel bad about it, she’ll either feel somewhat relieved that you are genuinely hoping she is OK, and willing to work it so that her schedule is flexible to accommodate it, or she’s uncomfortable talking about it with you, and will, say something like, “No, I appreciate it, but everything is ok”

      • Killer Kitten Heels

        I like the “is there something I can do?” wording vs. “is everything okay”, because I think it makes it more clear that you’re concerned with helping her, rather than being nosy (considering you don’t know her for all that long, that’s something that could be of concern to her if she doesn’t know you well enough to have a clear fix on your intentions).

    • Deep End

      I have been having a lot of doctor’s appointments lately and I have been really hoping my boss doesn’t do this. It’s awkward. I don’t want to discuss my health issues. I wouldn’t say anything.

        • Anonymous

          I agree with Deep End. If you must say something, wait until the next time she tells you she has a doctor’s appointment and respond in a way that let’s her know you care but doesn’t imply you need more information. Maybe something like “that’s fine, take the time you need, your health should be your first priority”? (Sorry, not feeling particularly eloquent right now… maybe others have better suggestions for wording.)

      • L

        +1. Plus, some things are really no one’s business. I get that you want to be sympathetic which is nice, but as someone who has to be out a lot and doesn’t know if things are always going to be okay work is my safe place to escape those thoughts.

        • Hel-lo

          What would you think of a boss saying, “I don’t need to know what’s happening, but I just wanted to let you know I’m here for you. Please let me know if you need anything or if there’s anything I can do.”

          Or would that feel too intrusive?

          • ADL

            I would much rather this. Please don’t ask her straight out if she is okay. It’s such an awkward situation because I didn’t want to tell my boss what was happening with my family b/c we weren’t personal friends like that.

      • naijamodel

        Agreed. I think it is BEYOND intrusive when bosses ask this. If you and this employee don’t normally talk on a friendly/personal basis, just leave it alone. I have taken sick leave lately and keep getting questioned and it is driving me up the wall lol.

      • preg 3L

        Or has a chronic illness? Or is pregnant? Or has a very sick family member who’s actually the one having all of the doctor appointments? I agree completely that saying something might make it more uncomfortable for her.

  12. Kate Spade watch

    Can the hive share their experiences with Kate Spade watches, especially long-term?

    • Anon

      I have one (Gramercy in gold with a black face). I like it a lot but the gold plating is wearing much more quickly than I expected (esp where it makes contact with my desk). I’ll probably be contacting them soon regarding a band replacement.

      Other than that, i love it. I have small wrists so a lot of the menswear inspired watches are laughably huge on me, and the very flat profile of this one is perfect for me. Plus, I think the black face makes the gold less blingy.

    • Kate Spade watch

      Thank you for mentioning band replacements! How much do they cost?
      My current watch also has a leather strap but I’ve given up on using the brand ones because they are hard to find and shipping back and forth just for this is just too much trouble.

  13. TBK

    I have the best mother-in-law ever. We had thought we’d be going to my family in New England for Thanksgiving (all of us — Mr. TBK, me, and MIL), but now I’m not allowed to travel, so we’re unexpectedly home for the holiday. MIL said she’d throw something together and bring it over so we can have dinner together. We asked if we should pick up anything to add to the menu, but she said no because she was bringing: shrimp c–tail, brined and roasted turkey breast, stuffing (she’s southern and makes the most amazing sausage stuffing), holiday rice, green beans, rolls, cranberry chutney, and dessert. Yes, bringing. As in, she’s cooking all of this at her house then schlepping it all to our house tomorrow so we don’t have to skip Thanksgiving just because I’m not allowed to be on my feet. I know what I’m thankful for this year!

    • preg 3L

      Aaawwww yay!! That’s so great. You’re being such a great mom, TBK, and I’m so glad your MIL is being so great to you!

    • kjoirishlastname

      DH and I were just commenting (and joking with hysterical laughter) the last several days that we have no idea what it is like to have normal parents.

      I would say consider yourself lucky, but I suspect that having “normal” parents like yours is really, the norm, and we’re just the unlucky ones. But seriously, for 2 people with ridiculously dysfunctional families to marry together? It’s like a train wreck sometimes. At least my sister’s IL’s are cool.

      • Rosalita

        Ha! I feel this way. Sometimes I’d rather have my siblings’ in-laws instead of mine.

    • CKB

      That is awesome! And an indicator that she will be a wonderful grandmother in addition to being a wonderful mil.

  14. out of the frying pan?

    [Insert long story here]: My husband hasn’t been diagnosed by a psychiatrist yet, but he has been diagnosed by a therapist – and we totally agree, upon review of the literature/assessment materials – that he has moderate Asperger’s disorder (now disappearing from DSM and being included in autism spectrum as a single diagnosis).

    I’m kind of stuck between – Wow! This explains SO MUCH! – and OH HECK- this can’t be “fixed”, how do we learn to deal with it so how do we make our marriage actually work?

    (And don’t even get me started on how I could have dated someone for 4 years and had no idea he was like this…)

    Has anybody ever had this happen to them? We’re not sure we want to go the formal diagnosis route or tell family and friends, at least not for a while. But I’m kind of stuck on where to go for resources, although the idea that resources may exist that could help all the work we’re both putting into our marriage actually produce results is encouraging.

    His therapist is sending him to another therapist who ‘specializes’ in this, but he won’t be able to see that person until after the holidays.

    Does anyone have suggestions/commiseration/advice? Thank you so much!

    • KLG

      I would recommend that YOU seek out a therapist who specializes in Aspergers as well. They can help you understand your husband and figure out ways to communicate better with him. It’s a different disorder but my sister says her husband’s ADD is much easier for her to deal with now that she’s learned effective strategies for dealing with someone with ADD. It also helped her learn what was and was not a reasonable expectation for him.

      • CKB

        This is great advice. As a son who is *almost* on the spectrum (one trait away) and who has a friend whose son was diagnosed with Aspergers a few years ago, I think the biggest things you will need is knowledge about Aspergers and how your dh’s brain works, and then knowledge and strategies on how to deal with that as well as reasonable expectations. For example, both my son & my friend’s son do not do well at all with changes in routine. We planned a semi-surprise trip to Disneyland earlier this year. I knew that if we did the whole “show up at the airport, guess what? we’re going to Disneyland” surprise that my son would have a major melt down (at almost 11yo) and not have nearly as much fun as he would if we gave him a couple of weeks notice, so that is what we did. My friend’s son needs similar advance notice to any changes in plans or routines, even if it’s something as simple as laundry day has changed by one day.

        Once you have that knowledge and those strategies, I think you (and your dh) will be just fine. Obviously you already are dealing with things fairly well, considering how long you have been together. The strategies you learn will most likely be formalized statements of some things you are already doing. This curveball, and learning together how to deal with it, can only make your marriage stronger, imo. Good luck!

      • Flying Squirrel

        This. I once sought out therapy when a BF (not my now-DH) had bipolar disorder. It had been under control when we started dating, so it was a real shock when it emerged and I didn’t know how to handle it very well. It was helpful just to have someone to talk to about how I was handling dealing with such a stressful situation. We didn’t last, in large part because of how he was treating me which he at least said was part of the illness, but for the time we were still dating it helped a lot (likely made the break up easier as well). I only saw the therapist a handful of times, but I appreciated it nonetheless.

    • tesyaa

      I’m a parent of kids on the spectrum, and my brother has all the symptoms of Asperger’s (but no one was able or willing to diagnose it 45 years ago – he was just a weird kid). Having the diagnosis (formally or not) is a huge step. If it helps, my brother has been happily married for 17 years to an amazing, understanding woman who loves him and feels lucky to be with him. I’d recommend reading Tony Attwood’s book on Asperger’s syndrome. It’s a small paperback, and it’s excellent.

    • Rosalita

      I’m not sure why you would shy away from getting the official diagnosis. It can only help.

      • Rosalita

        (It doesn’t mean you have to tell everyone in the world. It’s private health information.)

      • tesyaa

        The official diagnosis is useful for kids if it qualifies them for free special services. While the diagnosis may qualify an adult for disability or other payments, I’m not sure it’s as necessary as it is for a child.

        • tesyaa

          *I’m not sure it’s necessary for an adult who doesn’t want/need to go on disability.

        • Rosalita

          Well, but the diagnosis isn’t just for the money. Wouldn’t it also help you figure out coping strategies/proper meds/treatment, etc?

          Plus it’s good to know a professional’s opinion. Diagnosing mental health issues isn’t really something it’s a good idea to do via Dr. Google.

          You can actually get help if you seek professional advice.

          • tesyaa

            Maybe there’s confusion. You can certainly get professional help without a firm, “official” diagnosis. Asperger’s is a syndrome anyway, which just means that it’s a collection of symptoms. There’s no definitive medical “test” for Asperger’s or ASD.

    • Michelle

      Read David finch’s “journal of best practices”, really interesting insights into a situation that sounds like yours

      • Silvercurls

        Search the Internet for “AS spouse” (or Aspie spouse, Aspergers + marriage, etc.) You are not alone and there’s a ton out there.
        Marriage between neurotypical folks and folks on the spectrum isn’t always easy, but often the quirks are accompanied by a lively mind and a good heart, even if it seems well-hidden under an unresponsive or emotionally nonreactive exterior.

  15. Cb

    Commiseration. My partner is on the lower end of the spectrum but he had been diagnosed about a year before we started dating and told me within the first month or so. I think being aware of it is huge. You can change the way you communicate rather than just getting frustrated when they don’t respond the way you’d need /expect them to.

  16. anon

    Ladies,

    I turned 35 yesterday. I know this blog has readers of all ages, but I am a little down about it. I always told myself I’d get married by the time I was 35. And here I am. And I’m not. My friends are having kids, buying houses. I am not jealous–I am happy for them. But I want those things too.

    I took my time finding the career I wanted (law), moved up in that field as a paralegal, and am now attending law school. I don’t have a romantic prospect in sight, and I have at least a year of school ahead of me. I know I should count my blessings…I’m healthy, lucky to go to a great school, etc.

    I’m a good 10+ years older than most of my classmates, so they are not really prospects. I know that in order to change my situation, I need to get out there, but I feel so hopeless. I don’t have a ton of free time to find my knight in shining armor. I’m stuck in the library!

    Is it crazy to perhaps want to consider being a single mother via IVF? I feel like I am going to wake up in a few years and it may be too late for me to have kids. There’s no perfect time, but….is single motherhood during law school absolutely nuts? This isn’t a passing fancy–I’m serious about actually having a child vs. just freezing eggs (success rates much lower). I’m not really asking for anyone to talk me off the ledge, but…(1) how would I afford child care? (2) Isn’t it better to have a baby now instead of when I am in biglaw in a few years (and before you snark, this is a realistic possibility for me); (3) is it “fair” to bring a child into the world who may not ever have a father? I believe in living the life you’ve imagined, but the 2.2 kids and white picket fence are not happening for me…or I’m a late bloomer.

    Help–I had my quarter life crisis, but now I’m having my third-life crisis. Thoughts? Success stories of single parenthood in law school?

    • L

      With respect to #3, yes it’s fair. Plenty of single parents do it all the time, for whatever reason. Sure the more loving parental figures in a child’s life the better, but it doesn’t have to be a father. Could be an aunt or “uncle” or grandparent. Loving involved parent always wins.

      As for the other two, I have no idea. I think you should consider fertility testing to see if you actually would need to be concerned now (versus say 3 years). Also, you didn’t mention it, but what about adoption?

    • NOLA

      I’ve told this story here before but… I have a very dear friend who was in her late 30s and we spent a lot of time together walking in the park and talking after Katrina when I was getting divorced and she was unhappily single. She had been married then involved with two guys who both had older kids and didn’t want more kids. She had decided that, when she started dating someone, she wanted to have the kids conversation right away because, for her, it was a deal breaker and she didn’t want to waste more time with guys who didn’t want kids. I took her as my +1 to an Oscar party (funny, because we chose the more lowkey of the two parties to which I had been invited). One of my colleagues met her for the first time, decided that she was perfect for one of their guy friends, and set them up. They married that December and had their beautiful daughter in February of 2008. I think she was 41 when her daughter was born. She went from philosophy professor to SAHM and she’s very happy. So while it’s not a story about single parenthood (she didn’t want that), it’s a success story!

      Oh and one more thing – my 40s were way better than my 30s!

    • Life Can Surprise You

      The thing about life is that you never know what might happen today. One day, you have this life, and then at some random event something happens (you meet your future husband, you are introduced to a great firm that ends up hiring you, whatever), and your life changes.

      I went to law school late, did not graduate until I was 30, entered law school married and left it divorced. Worked at BigLaw from 30 to 40, single, not even dating. One day, 2 weeks after I turned 40, I went to some stupid networking thing and met my now-husband. Who could have predicted that? 7 years later, I still can’t beieve that in just one evening, my life changed so drastically. (Yes, we dated and got to know each other and spent years together before merging lives, but one minute I did not know him and the next minute I knew him. Just like that.)

      When I divorced at 30, I docketed when I would have to start looking for an MD who would do IVF on a single woman (I live in a conservative county) if I wanted to deliver before I turned 35. I also docketed the dates for starting IVF, conceiving etc. When those dates came, I realized that I did not want kids (never had wanted them, but once single/divorced figured I should docket the “last chance” deadlines). So that delay in finding my husband never bothered me and had no negative consequences for me. (He already had 2 kids, and that is enough for me.) If that is important to you, and you can afford it, I say why not do it? I would have.

      • Lady Harriet

        It’s so true, you never know what’s going to happen. Other than my college friends in their early 20’s, every wedding I’ve been invited to in the last 5 years has been friends of the family in their mid-30’s through early 40’s. My own parents didn’t even meet until my mom was about 35. They dated on and off for a few years before getting married. She was a few months short of 39 when I was born, and I’m the oldest of 2. My parents didn’t think they were going to be able to get married and have kids–my mom was divorced from a bad first marriage in her late 20’s and my dad is shy and didn’t date much. They did divorce when I was a kid, but have an extremely amiable divorce. The marriage definitely didn’t fail because of getting married later or having kids, there were just other issues.

    • Anon

      I’d say if you want it, do it. Having biological children is something that when the time runs out on, it really runs out. I am just a year behind you and recently single. I too am starting to evaluate my options on this front.

      I think the most important thing for a child to be happy and healthy is to be very wanted and very loved. I am sure that you will clear those two hurdles with ease. The rest can figure itself out and will frankly be easier to throw money to solve some of these time crunch issues if you have money to throw at the problem.

    • Anon

      I say go for it. One of my friends in grad school was a single mom, and she was able to take advantage of a lot of resources at the university (excellent affordable daycare, family housing, affordable health insurance) that made it all more doable. Plus your schedule is more flexible in law school if you need to schedule a pediatrician visit or if you just want to be around more when your baby is a baby.

      I think being a single mom in Biglaw would be harder. Can you do a midlevel, more reasonable firm in a moderate cost of living area? Biglaw in NYC would be awful with a baby, but there are so many other markets out there that would allow for a better lifestyle as a single mom.

      And all that said, I think you should go for it. If this is something you really want, I don’t think you should let life circumstances like not finding the right partner get in your way. Parenting is really, really cool, and you should get to experience it if you want that for your life. And keep us posted if you do — I’ll be rooting for you!

    • latke

      Reading your post, it sounds like you’ve given up on finding a partner. If you’re not meeting people through school, how about online or attending meetups? Some of the worst advice I ever got about dating was not to try, to just let things happen naturally. For some people this works out, but most of us have to make an effort to be more outgoing, to put ourselves in situations where we’ll meet appropriate men. I say this, too, with love, that if you don’t have time to date I suspect you don’t have time for a baby.

    • anon

      On the other side of this, you could be like me – married in mid 20s, now 33 and a new mom, and contemplating a divorce. I wish I hadn’t made a hasty choice with marriage and waited but I am also super thankful to be a mom. The grass is always greener…

      • Anonymous

        I’m 38 and just divorced this month. Two terrific kids. Seems much smarter to me to go ahead with the kids than gamble on a/the man – I totally, totally ignored warning signs and then struggled for years to not end the marriage and while I am very grateful to have my kids I am sorry their dad is kind of a loser.

    • 35 yo SF

      I understand and I am working through many of the same issues. I turned 35 exactly two months ago. I’ve been out of law school and working for 6 years. I’m single with no prospects. I am a liberal in a red state that I love and cannot leave. Quality single guys in their 30s are very rare around here. I’m not being overly picky – just looking for someone who graduated from college, likes the outdoors, and is comfortable with people from different cultures.

      I am planning to go to the sperm bank in one year, when I am 36. You don’t have to do IVF unless you absolutely must. I’ve told my parents and all my friends about this plan and everyone is very supportive, especially all the friends who are already parents. I am very lucky in that my parents are retired, healthy, and willing to babysit when I go back to work. If you want a child in your life you will figure out the rest. People do it all the time. I plan to.

    • Flying Squirrel

      You’ve got a lot going on here, and unfortunately not being a lawyer myself I can’t help with some of it. The only thing I can say is that I know single parents who’ve been through all kinds of rigorous schooling with kids, so it’s certainly do-able, just not easy.

      What I can say, though, is that if having kids is really a life priority for you, then you should absolutely look into it. Hopefully you don’t have any underlying fertility issues and regular artificial insemination (IVI, I think) would work for you…there are also many other fertility interventions short of IVF that can also work if regular old IVI doesn’t. Knowing what I know now, in your situation I would at a minimum get myself checked out for potential fertility issues (e.g. low ovarian reserve which could indicate early menopause, any structural issues such as blocked tubes, wacky hormones). Some people say the testing for these things takes forever, but I didn’t find it too bad…most of the initial testing is just bloodwork, and there’s one imaging procedure that’s more of a hassle. This way, you have a much better handle on what your future options might be, instead of basing a major life decision on statistical averages for your age group or anecdotes about individuals.

      That said, I did have a supervisor who had a daughter on her own, using donor sperm, probably at about your age. She’s an amazing mother (seriously, as a single parent she does more/provides more experiences for her child than most couples) while also having a very demanding and high profile job. So it can be done and the child can have a wonderful life. But it does require a deep and dedicated commitment…you will have less of your “own” life than someone who has a partner to share the burden. And only you can decide how serious you are about having children to know whether this is worth it to you in the long run.

      But frankly, I think if you decide to move forward, you’ll be in a better position than most. To use myself as an example, DH and I always knew we wanted kids and felt like job/money wise things were in a good place when we decided to TTC. But looking back, I don’t know that we would have been emotionally prepared (though we would obviously have figured it out, maybe not as optimally as possible). Now after so many years of disappointment, losses, and treatments we’ve had forever to learn so much more about how each of us handles life challenges and work as a team and also really examine and consider what a child will mean for our lives. With 6 weeks to go before my due date, I obviously still have a lot of anxiety about what things are going to be like…but I feel so much more ready than I know many of my friends did when they were expecting their first after only a couple months of trying. Maybe my confidence is overblown (we’ll find out soon enough), but I’m a firm believer that when things aren’t just handed to you it really does impact how you feel about them.

      So good luck! You’re going through something very difficult, but also very normal. I very good friend of mine used to say that she would have a baby through artificial insemination if she hadn’t met a potential father when she turned 35. She’s now almost 37, and hasn’t done so yet…but I keep thinking I should gently broach the subject, just to let her know that I would support her decision. A lot of her law school friends have had babies recently and they talk a lot about what it means to be married and be parents which I think scares her off.

    • Anonymous

      Your not crazy, but a decision this big requires a lot of time and research.

      Although I’m only 30, I’ve already started to consider if I’ll undergo IVI down the road to have kids on my own. I’m not willing to give up my dreams of a husband yet, but have given myself 5 years to be in a better financial position (pay off a large part of my mortgage, have more job security, ect) before making a decision. If you want kids and are willing to make the sacrifices necessary to be a single mother, I don’t think the fact that there is not a partner in the picture should hold you back. My parents divorced with I was 4 and I was effectively raised by a single mother (father was not in the picture at all), which probably has a huge impact on the fact that I believe it can be successful.

      Having said that, I would encourage you to think about whether you have the financial resources to be a single parent during law school and whether you will have the time necessary to be a single mother your first few years at a big law firm. In retrospect, I had substantially more free time during my second and third year of law school than I have at a firm. Are you a first year? If so, I suspect that you will be spending substantially less time in the library over the next two years and could devote some of that time to dating. If you still feel like all your free time is spent in the library after your first year, I’m not sure where you would find the time for a baby. Even though I would have had the time during law school, I would personally not have had the necessary financial resources. I had a hard enough time paying my expenses without worrying about daycare, ect.

      After starting at a firm in DC, my finances are better but I have little free time. Especially during your first year or two, you have little control over your hours. For job security reasons, you don’t want to become known as the associate who always turns down a project that comes in at 5:45, isn’t willing to stay late when necessary, doesn’t put in the hours over the weekend, ect. Many mid and senior associates at my firm have young children and have to leave by 6pm to get home by the time the nanny gets done. This appears to be workable once you have established yourself at the firm and when you have someone you can count on to cover when necessary at the last minute. But, at least at my firm and those I’m familiar with, it would be near impossible to ensure that you are always out of the office by 6pm to pick up the baby from daycare or to be home by the end of the nanny’s shift.

      Having said all of that, consider the sacrifices necessary to have a baby on your own. What would your day to day look like? Would your parents be willing to help babysit and step in on short notice when necessary if you lived in their area? If so, maybe you should consider firms in their city? Would you be willing to work at a small or midsize firm instead of big law so that you have more free time?

    • SMC

      Really don’t want to out myself here – but I am a single mother lawyer who conceived via IUI and now have a school aged child. It is doable – and wonderful, although not easy and not compatible with a very-high powered career unless you have family help or a very high salary. There is an organization called Single Mothers By Choice with a very active list-serve and groups in most larger cities. I would suggest you contact them and, if possible, attend a few meetings.

      Also, while many women marry after 35 (and have kids), realistically you are starting to run out of time. That doesn’t mean run out and get pregnant tomorrow. It does mean that it is time to make a decision about your priorities. It is harder to find a husband at 40 with a 3 year old, but harder to get pregnant at 40. Too many women wait too long for Mr. Right and find their options very much limited.

  17. Hair drama

    At the risk of outing myself; I found my first gray hair. I’m not even 30. AGH. I never though I would think it was a big deal until my DH pointed it out to me. I’m feeling very old and frumpy. sigh

    • Anonymous

      Dude. I am 27 and have like at least 25. My fiance said they are cute and make me look distinguished. Its just hair! think of them as just very blonde highlights

    • tesyaa

      I feel your pain, but this is one cosmetic crisis that is fixable. You can go the professional route or the drugstore route, but no surgery or injections are necessary to cover your gray. Gray (especially when colored) doesn’t make you old and frumpy. Being old and frumpy makes you old and frumpy.

    • January

      It’s pretty common to have a few gray strands in your twenties. I do, and so do many of my friends. It’s much more obvious if you have dark hair. If it’s just one, you can just tweeze it. I know they say that will make it come back threefold, but I haven’t really experienced that.

      • tesyaa

        Tweezing doesn’t really make them come back in greater numbers, but the tweezed hair will still grow back. It’s much harder to camouflage a short, stubby gray hair than a longer one which you can blend with the rest of your hair. Short hairs tend to stick up. I think there may be a hair dye marker for single strands (or you can try a sharpie if your hair is black or brown).

        • Pink

          THIS. I used to pluck out the one or two, but now there are more and I had to stop plucking because they stick straight up! Apparently the magic straight chemicals don’t work on white hairs. ugh.

      • January

        Haha… I only plucked a gray hair once, when it was in my bangs. But in the interest of full disclosure, I colored my hair recently (bonus: you can change your hair color in addition to covering grays!)

    • CKB

      I started getting grey hairs in my 20s and it didn’t really bother me that much because it was just one or two here & there. However, when I was 29 someone (who I had never spoken to before) in church leaned over the pew to say to me “I think it’s so wonderful to see how you have decided to embrace your grey hairs and let them grow naturally instead of coloring them like so many women do”. I know she meant it to be positive and complimentary, but all I heard was “You have enough grey hairs that a relative stranger commented on them!” It shook my confidence, but I didn’t start coloring my hair until 2 or 3 years later, when dh said “you really do have quite a few grey hairs now, especially in the sunlight. If you were planning on dying your hair now would probably be a good time”. He honestly was being supportive because he knew I was wrestling with the decision to dye or not.

      Anyway, not sure if this was helpful or not, but try not to feel old & frumpy! It’s something we all go through, and it’s easily fixable too.

    • TO Lawyer

      I’m 26 and have a single streak of grey hairs which are very noticeable (I have dark hair). I ignored them for a few years but it’s getting more noticeable and is starting to drive me crazy so I’ve decided this is a problem I can throw money at, and I’m getting highlights.

      You can fix this!

    • Hair drama

      Thanks, ladies. I ripped the offending hair out, but it spiraled into a bigger beauty drama then it should have. Mostly there are other things I’d like to change about my physical appearance right now and just total short-lived meltdown. Now I definitely have motivation to go to the gym tonight (can’t be out of shape AND have gray hairs yet!!)

      • Rosalita

        Or, you can. Because you have savored wonderful food and experiences.

        I like to think of gray hairs as “wisdom hairs.” We earn them, just like we earn laughter lines on our faces – from moments of insight and patience and tenderness.

        Stop hating yourself and love yourself for who you are and what you look like.

        • Silvercurls

          You can be in shape (or out of shape) and still have gray hair.

          TBH, although my decision not to color my hair originated partly from the mindset of “why deny who I am?” it has long since morphed into simple gratitude at having One. Less. Thing. to. Do, Plan, and Pay For!

          IMO colored hair looks great…on other people. I don’t have the patience for it.

    • MH

      I love my gray hairs! I’m 28. They make me feel like I’ve lived. I got my first one (that I noticed) this year, roughly after finishing my first full year as a litigator. I consider it my medal for finally being a real professional.

    • Lady Harriet

      In my family they start in elementary school. :) My mom found her first when she was 6, my brother was 9, and I was probably 11 or 12. My brother has very dark brown hair so they show up on him more than on me. (Also, I have long, curly hair, so they get lost in the general melee.) I have a friend who’s 24 and dyes her hair to cover significantly visible greys. She has black hair, which is why they’re more noticeable. You definitely don’t need to feel old!

  18. DC Legal Recruiter?

    I know we’ve discussed about it before, but I can’t seem to find the exact thread when I search for it. Does any attorney hive-members in DC have a recommendation for a recruiter? Specifically one who calls/writes you back, and one who won’t shut you out for not going to one of five schools?

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