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Workwear sales of note for 6.02.23:
- Nordstrom – The Half-Yearly Sale has started! See our thoughts here.
- Ann Taylor – $50 off $150; $100 off $250+; extra 30% off all sale styles
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything + extra 25% off purchase
- Boden – Sale, up to 50% off
- Cole Haan – Up to 50% off select styles; extra 20% off sandals & sneakers
- Eloquii – 60% off all tops
- Express – 30% off all dresses, tops, shorts & more; extra 50% off clearance
- H&M – Up to 60% off online and in-store.
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off “dressed up” styles (lots of cute dresses!); extra 50% off select sale
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything; 60% off 100s of summer faves; extra 60% off clearance
- J.McLaughlin – The Sale Event: extra 30% off
- Loft – 40% off tops; 30% off full-price styles
- Sephora – Up to 50% off select beauty.
- Shopbop – Up to 60% off sale
- Sue Sartor – Lots of cute dresses on sale!
- Talbots – 25-40% off select styles
Other noteworthy sales:
- CB2.com – Up to 40% off; pop-up sale up to 30% off
- Joss & Main – Up to 60% off, plus an extra 20% off with code
- Tuft & Needle – Save up to $775 on mattresses (Reader-favorite brand; Kat really likes hers!)
- West Elm – Up to 25% off in-stock furniture; up to 60% off clearance
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
- Favorite comfy pants for an overnight plane ride?
- I’ve got a nasty case of tech neck…
- What’s a good place for a relaxing solo escape?
- What’s the best commuter backpack?
- I’m early 40s and worry my career arc is ending…
- I canNOT figure out the proportions in this current season of fashion…
- How is everyone wearing scarves in 2023?
- What shoes are people wearing to work between boot and sandal season?
- What’s a good place for a relaxing solo escape?
- What are some of your go-to outfits that feel current?
- I need more activities that are social, easy to learn and don’t involve extreme running/jumping/etc.
Ladies, I just wanted to put a plug in for The Broadsheet, which is a Fortune newsletter on women which comes out daily (weekdays only). It has great curated content. The first story up today was SO GOOD!
Here it is: More power, more tears. As women gain more responsibilities on the job, they also become more depressed than their female colleagues with less office power. For men, it’s exactly the opposite. Why? A study claims that working women face much more stress from “prejudice, discrimination, unfavorable stereotypes, negative social interactions, lack of communication and support from superiors and coworkers” than do men.
(Also, totally not affiliated with Fortune at all…this is just something I look forward to each morning!)
Interesting. I wonder if it’s the same for women entrepreneurs.
It says it’s based on the ability to hire/fire/promote/pay people. So it would seem to apply to entrepreneurs with employees.
This is interesting. I wonder how a base of psychology or sociology would impact how these factors are analyzed and interpreted by the women.
I wonder how this shifts from industry to industry. In law, I find few things more depressing than the lack of control over my hours (both in timing and in quantity) that’s experienced at the bottom.
What year are you? Because in my limited expereicne, it just gets worse as you get to be a midlevel and senior assocaite
This is really depressing when linked with the poster from a few weeks ago whose SO didn’t think women still experienced discrimination in the workplace.
Book recommendations ladies? I always get a great list going when we do one of these threads so I’d love to hear what everyone is reading/what has been amazing.
Life After Life and The Casual Vacancy–I just re-read both of them. But yes, I could use suggestions as well!
Which Life After Life did you read? The Kate Atkinson or the other one? I enjoyed the Atkinson one, though it took me a minute to get on board with the premise.
I’m currently reading Americanah, which is enjoyable though I haven’t gotten too into it yet.
Next on my list is a second attempt at reading Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell because they are making a miniseries of the book and I want to finally read it beforehand. So far, I failed twice.
For anyone who wants to read a really sweet (but not cloying) and engaging book, I recently re-read I Capture the Castle and enjoyed it just as much as I did when I read it the first time, years and years ago.
There’s a fantastic reread of Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell going on at scifi/fantasy site Tor.com — it’s very spoiler-heavy, but if you don’t mind spoilers, it’s got some great discussion that may kickstart your interest. http://www.tor.com/features/series/jonathan-strange-mr-norrell-reread
+1 to Life After Life (by Kate Atkinson).
I’m enjoying The Children Act (Ian McEwan’s newest). And I’m open to recommendations myself!
For career-related, I enjoyed Nice Girls Don’t Get The Corner Office. I recognized several subconscious behaviors I do that harm how people view me as a professional, and since setting out to fix it, have been viewed with much more respect.
The Children Act and Leaving Time
I just finished North & South for a literature class I’m taking and loved it. I also recently read The Vacationers by Emma Straub and really enjoyed it.
Are you generally out-of-school and just taking a lit class for fun? Either way, tell me about this…
I’m still doing my BSc (Politics, in the UK) – I’m currently on a study year abroad in Germany, where I’ve had the opportunity to take some English Literature classes, which I’m really enjoying (I took Lit in high school but had to drop it because the teacher was so bad I wasn’t going to get the grades I needed to get into university)
Interesting to take English lit class in another country that does not usually speak English – is the class in German or English? What language are you reading the materials in?
I don’t know if you’ll see this – the class is in English, the university (Konstanz) has many English-language courses.
LOVE Mrs. Gaskell. Also try Cranford.
Also, watch the miniseries – I just read North and South after watching the miniseries and preferred the show (gasp!)
The book was missing Richard Armitage.
Good grief! Second time I find a mention of RA here at Corporette. I’m not complaining mind you. But yes, the tv series has the virtue of 1) Richard Armitage smouldering in a cravat 2) an ending with the most bone-meltingly romantic on-screen kiss.
+1. The heart-stopping open cravat in the ending scenes. Oh my.
The Divorce Papers. Story of a divorce told in actual (fictional) legal paper form. Written by a law prof. Really fun.
If you liked that, try The Sealed Letter by Emma Donoghue. It’s based on the 1864 Codington divorce scandal.
+1. I read this while on vacation and absolutely loved it.
And my library has it! I know what I’m reading this weekend.
All the Light We Cannot See and Station Eleven have been my favorites novels this fall. For nonfiction: River Town by Peter Hessler about living in China as a teacher (a few years old).
I’m reading Station Eleven now and it is GOOD. Totally creeping me out, though.
I was home sick and polished of Zemindar, an 900 page novel about the British outpost in India during the 1857 rebellion…it might have been the meds talking but it was a really interesting story.
I read Lena Dunham’s book and realised that I don’t actually like her tv show so why was I reading her book?
I recently read The Invention of Wings and LOOOOOOOVEDDDDDDDD it.
I’m trying to cleanse my bookshelf and in the process make sure I’m only keeping books I would definitely re-read, so I’m currently in the middle of “All Quiet on the Western Front,” which I forgot how much I enjoyed and have “Fahrenheit 451” stashed in a bag somewhere.
The Signature of all Things by Elizabeth Gilbert. It’s a novel about a female botanist in the 19th century.
Loved that book!
Anything and everything by Terry Pratchett – my mother and I bond over a shared love of the Discworld series. The combination of social satire and fantasy is brilliant. In the same vein, Gregory Maguire – Wicked is his best known book because of the musical based on it, but I adored Mirror Mirror and Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister as well.
Re Maguire – just don’t based your expectations for the book off of what you know of the musical. The premise is the same, but musical is very much Disney-fied from the path the book takes. Doesn’t mean it’s not an interesting read on its own, but I also had no desire to read the sequel, or any of Maguire’s other books, even though I liked the concept of the story he was telling.
You make a very good point – especially in regards to the ending. The book and the musical only really share a setting, a character list, and about half the plot elements, but I actually found I enjoyed the book more. The sharper elements worked well with the story, I thought.
If you’re open to sci-fi: Ancillary Justice by Ann Leckie!
Unfortunately, I’m not sure most of the books I’ve read recently I can recommend wholeheartedly. I just finished the Tenth of December by George Saunders, and loved some stories while being completely unimpressed by others. I think it might benefit from not being read all at once.
I’m a little way into Cloud Atlas and loving it. The reader for the audio version is amazing.
Just bought Ancillary Justice, looks great and right up my alley, thanks!
I just finished the Unincorporated Man series by Dani Kollin & Eytan Kollin, really enjoyed those if you are looking for more sci-fi.
Casebook by Mona Simpson
I’ll Give You the Sun by Jandy Nelson (technically YA)
An Untamed State by Roxana Gay
Belzhar by Meg Wolitzer (also YA)
The Girls at the Kingfisher Club by Genevieve Valentine
Wonder by R.J. Palacio
The Accident by Chris Pavone (thriller)
The Other Wes Moore by Wes Moore (non-fiction)
The Gospel of Winter by Brendan Kiely
I actually have a spreadsheet on google docs that I could post a link to if you want to see more. But Casebook is the best book I’ve read this year.
Please do post a link to your spreadsheet.
If you’re up for nonfiction, I enjoyed #GIRLBOSS by Sophia Amoruso (the founder of Nasty Gal). Most recently I read Hacker, Hoaxer, Whistleblower, Spy by Gabriella Coleman, which is about Anonymous. The beginning was rough but got better. If you’re interested in the topic, I much preferred We Are Anonymous by Parmy Olson. That one was excellent.
I always love these threads! I’ve been reading and loving a lot of nonfiction recently, so these are my suggestions:
An Invisible Thread: The True Story of an 11-Year-Old Panhandler, a Busy Sales Executive, and an Unlikely Meeting with Destiny by Laura Schroff
All Joy and No Fun: The Paradox of Modern Parenthood by Jennifer Senior
Unbroken by Laura Hillenbrand
The Devil in the White City by Erik Larsen
Some fiction recs as well:
Sisterland by Curtis Sittenfeld
We Are All Completely Beside Ourselves by Karen Joy Fowler
Tempting Fate by Jane Green
The Last Telegram by Liz Trenow
I didn’t love Sisterland, but it lead me to American Wife, which I adored.
American Wife is one of my favorite books of all time – SO GOOD.
A Constellation of Vital Phenomenon is beautiful. It’s a debut novel, and a very good one at that.
Here are some of my favorites from this year:
Where’d You Go Bernadette – Maria Semple
Maddadam Trilogy – Margaret Atwood
Gulp, Packing For Mars, Bonk, and Stiff – Mary Roach
The Night Circus – Erin Morgenstern
A Discovery of Witches Triology – Deborah Harkness
Just finished Cataract City by Craig Davidson – gritty friendship/coming-of-age story about two guys in Niagara Falls, Canada. Very fast-paced and engaging
Also Dataclysm by Christian Rudder – about all that big data gleaned from dating sites like OkCupid, search engines like Google etc.
Dataclysm sounds really interesting!
Unbroken Laura Hillenbrand
The Heist – Daniel Silva
The Boys in the Boat – Daniel James Brown
Prague Winter – Madeline Albright
Business Brilliant – Lewis Schiff
50 Children – Steven Pressman
The Monuments Men – Robert Edsel
The Target – Robert Baldacci
Remains of Innocence – JA Jance
Those interested in politics might like “O Democracy” by Kathleen Rooney. It’s fiction about a senator’s aide — a woman in her twenties — and the campaign.
I’m in the middle of the All Souls trilogy recommended by several posters here. It’s a lot of fun!
Loved The Rosie Project, The Interestings, We are Water, Delicious, One and Only, The Perfume Collector– all are fiction and good light reads.
Holiday party dilemma
I work at a nonprofit where most of the employees are very liberal. The banking industry and the 1% are often loudly and vocally criticized, though our work is in a completely different area. My very serious boyfriend works at a major investment firm, and I was hoping for input about what our strategy should be for the holiday party. I’m worried that he’ll be treated to long rants about his job and company or that he’ll generally get an awkward/less-than-warm reception once people find out what he does. Because of this, my inclination is for him to skip (which he is fine with), but people have repeatedly asked if he’s coming/want to meet him and I find it crazy that he should have to skip because of my coworkers. Thoughts?
Do they just bury their money in the back yard, buy homes in cash, self-fund business, and have some alternative method of retirement savings? Certainly they don’t all think that all banks are evil & unnecessary.
Presumably your co-workers are capable of talking about other topics than their views on the banking industry. I’d just be prepared to change topics if necessary.
I’ve worked at a place like that. If he can take good-natured ribbing, then bring him. But if you think your co-workers will be more rude than generous, definitely excuse him from attending. Maybe a lower-key event is a good place to introduce him, like a Happy Hour?
To clarify, one time the President of our non-profit had to clarify that we work *with* capitalism, not against it. Ugh.
Also, if your boyfriend (and co-workers) have other non-work, non-making money, non-saving the world interests, guess what?! Self-righteous people, do, too, and together they can talk about music, Game of Thrones, crazy families, the commute, cooking, traveling…
I also worked at a place like that. My coworkers must’ve been even more obsessed than yours – the only thing we ever talked about other than our mission was food, and even then, only the HR and legal teams, never the policy people. My vision of my coworkers at home was them sitting in a dark, bare apartment, angrily reading righteous news articles from a glowing blue computer screen. So glad I’m not there anymore.
You and The Boyfriend should develop thick skin, like me, and enjoy the party. Don’t take your coworkers’ opinions as personal attacks against The Boyfriend. Be ready to crack jokes and divert but don’t hide people from each other.
Do they know what he does? If so, I’d assume they’d be socially polite even if they don’t like it. I wouldn’t have him skip over this issue at all. Also, he’s probably got a tough enough skin to handle a comment (or an unlikely rant). I can’t imagine leaving him out, actually. It would be like not taking him home to your family because your politics differ.
I think you should have faith that your coworkers are grown ups capable of basic social courtesy until proven differently, and be ready to cut off any diatribe with a smile and a ” gosh what a terribly unpleasant conversation for a holiday party! Pls do excuse us the queso looks lonely”
I would bring him, be prepared to run interference, change topics, whatever. make sure he’s fully prepared to talk a lot about a range of things, maybe prepare him to go on the offence and actively seek opportunites to talk about non-job things. If they’re rude, don’t bring him again. I think they should meet your SO at least once, and it seems like they want to. If it doesn’t work out, it doesn’t work out. I should hope that a group of professional adults know how to be polite to people who are different from them.
Oh he’ll be fine. I work nonprofit and my husband is in oil and gas. He can take a joke and so can my coworkers.
Former Partner, Now In-House
Can you give him a cheatsheet that lists one non-work thing that each person likes (SuzieQ: gardening; JohnQ: The Bears etc). That way, when someone rants, he can let them run themselves out, not engage and instead repond with “GF tells me you enjoy X. Tell me about that.”
He should prepare some charming, self-deprecating, jokes.
“I know, I know, but gotta keep the Scrooge McDuck money pool filled” would be my choice.
It sounds like you’ve already given your boyfriend a heads-up about potential feistiness by your colleagues (good), but if it is your expectation that he makes nice in the face of provocation by people whom may not be very well-informed or accurate when ranting, best be very clear about this. You don’t want party chit-chat to degenerate into mutual rudeness or hostility because ‘I couldn’t just stand there when X was spouting all this garbage about Y’.
THIS! I work for Congress and get into similar situations, frequently. Sometimes the rudeness is so extreme that there’s no way to laugh it off or ignore. I would be worried less about jokes, which i’m sure he can handle.
I worked as a prosecutor for a few years and still attend police department functions with my criminal defense attorney husband. It won’t be an issue, people will be mostly polite or engage in some good natured ribbing.
Are you concerned about a few jibes, or actual shunning?
I ask because as a prosecutor who is very liberal (and has liberal friends), I’ve dealt with this issue in varying degrees for over a decade. Sometimes, I’ve had real discussions and changed people’s assumptions. Once, at a dinner party, a woman outright ignored me after asking what I did. Stopped talking to me, ignored me when I spoke, would not even look at me. It was really awkward, but you know what? Half the people didn’t notice, and the ones that did were appalled at her behavior. I wasn’t going to change her bigoted, ignorant mind, so I’m glad I didn’t waste the time.
If you’re worried about outright hostility, pick out a couple friendly people, and let him know before hand that they’re friendly. If things get heated, he can just go to one of them. And I agree you should set the parameters with him and make sure he’s ok with your expectations. But I think it’s completely ok if his response to blatant rudeness is to walk away with only a quizzical look or a “Huh.”
Thanks all! At this point, he’s probably going to go. He’s very mild-mannered and I’m sure that he could take a joke/not get in an argument with one of my coworkers. My main worry at this point is that after a few drinks a coworker would try to get into an intellectual debate or ask how he could go to work with a clear conscience. I’ll definitely let him know about the friendly people in the office and be there to try to change the subject etc. if things go south. Thanks for the input!
Good luck! I’m really interested to hear how this goes.
Q re telling Manager I'm Pregnant
I was aiming for a promotion that came through 2 weeks ago, with a 15% raise. Yay. So then my supervisor who authorized it went on vacation. Today I got paid and noticed that the raise has not come through yet. I guess that’s to be expected given the lag in hours to paycheck? Anyway, I was going to tell Supervisor I’m pregnant on Monday when she returns. I think the promotion will be announced to the region on Monday, too. But now I think I should wait 2 weeks until I see the raise in my paycheck?
Mitigating factors are: 1. My supervisor is a married woman, child-free by choice, very supportive. 2. A new mother was recently laid off on my team. 3. I have an older child, I’m 15 weeks (due mid-May) and about to start buying maternity pants, but I’m overweight and not showing blatantly.
So, do I tell Manager I’m pregnant sooner or wait until the raise is in the paycheck?
Why not be proactive and point out the raise was not in today’s paycheck. If it was an error, wouldn’t you want it corrected right away?
Anon in NYC
+1. Can you just call your accounting or HR department? I don’t think that you need to hide your pregnancy from your manager in fear that you won’t get your raise. The only thing that I can think of is that if the promotion hasn’t been announced, maybe the raise is not effective yet?
Did your promotion paperwork have an effective date? Our company essentially issues a new job offer letter, which has the salary/bonus/benefits that come with the new promo included, as well as the date it goes into effect.
If you have a date, and it has passed, and you have not seen the $$, email or phone HR with the facts and copy your vacationing manager. Nothing weird here other than admin error.
Whenever I’ve gotten a rasie, I was always told it would be effective on X date or that I’d see it in X date’s paycheck. I assume you didn’t get any similar guidance, and payday is a logical day to remember to ask someone about it. Once you have a date in hand, as long as you know the raise is definitely happening – ie, submitted to payroll – there’s no reason to delay announcing your pregnancy.
That time of the month, huh? At least it’s not :
S in Chicago
I just bought a beautiful navy blazer that I expected to get heavy use since I’m always hearing about how versatile they are. Now that I look at my closet, though, I don’t know what to wear it with. my pants are mostly black and navy, I have some kakhi (which oviously works) and gray, but I can’t tell if the grey is too dark to work with navy. What do you all wear with navy blazers?
Camel, forest green, burgundy, pinks, and light greys in the winter/fall. In the summer I love navy blazers with white dresses or with red skirts. Yellow and navy is also a great summer color combo.
I stock up on the JCrew wool pencil skirts in those colors just for this type of purpose, I’ve got them in burgundy, red, green, grey, yellow, and camel at this point.
is there anything I can’t wear it with besides black (the navy is too dark for an obvious contrast) and other navy? Or probably also the darker grey colors?
I wear my navy blazer with tan, off white, or any shade of gray pants. Also burgundy pants, and I have a pair of red pants that I wear it with in warm weather. I wear it with just about anything except black. Actually, I have 2 navy blazers, one from Brooks Brothers and one from Ralph Lauren. I wear scarves often so I use them to tie, (no pun intended!) colors in a blouse or top together.
I have a “the skirt” in a dark-ish magenta that works great with my navy blazer. Same for camel. It also works well with green/blue-based prints. The navy helps make the print more formal-looking.
I wear a navy blazer with gray, camel, pink, burgundy, and I pair my navy blazer with jeans on casual days,
I was surprised what outfits I could get to work once I dropped my self imposed rule of only pairing navy/blues with browns/creams. I think it helped that I bought a particularly cute mostly gray scarf with navy accents that tied things together nicely and instantly converted me.
Tween/teen shopping help please. My nearly 13 year old niece has asked for clothing this year for Xmas, and given that she’s tall enough to be nearly out of size 14, but not developed enough to be in women’s clothing I’m having a really hard time finding brands that might work for her. I’d also prefer a mall type store so she can easily return/exchange things if necessary. She’s a sporty kid, relatively thin, and not super fashion-y, but I think she’d like some on-trend pieces that aren’t too adult. Any ideas of places to look at?
2nd american eagle
I still buy my jeans from there (I’m 28)- it looks like their tops and whatnot would skew for the perfect age
3rding. That was one of my favorite stores in high school and I still wear a few of the sweaters, which are now (yikes!) 15 years old. It’s made well enough for a high schooler and is reasonably priced.
That sounds like JCrew territory for me. And Abercrombie tbh but personally I think I’d rather die than go in. At least based on my observation of packs of 13 year olds in the mall.
Completely disagree with both the JCrew and Abercrombie suggestion. I consider Abercrombie more for 16 and up and JCrew for grown women (unless your mom makes you shop there), definitely not for 13 year olds. Not to mention, they’re both overpriced and you’ll likely get a lot more for your $ at AE, Aero, or Hollister.
Abercrombie was the absolutely “coolest” when I was in HS 15 years ago, but I heard it got less cool when the economy collapsed.
OK, but I feel like J. Crew is for very thin grown women, without big breasts or very curvy hips.
That’s why I vote J. Crew. Also, she could go for the preppy look… I remember a lot of J. Crew looks in older HS/early college in the mid-90s, though you’re right it probably wouldn’t be great for a 13-year-old.
As a former high school teacher, Abercrombie has completely fallen out of favor. My students liked AE, H&M, and the juniors department at Nordstrom.
Hollister and American Eagle are where you want to go. They generally sell on-trend clothes for teenagers.
+1. I actually have a few sweaters from AE that I bought 6-7 years ago that still hold up – not all of it is junk.
While I personally think it’s silly to buy anything for a 13 year old with longevity in mind (considering her body will definitely be changing in the next few years), I do also have a few sweaters that are as old as yours. When I wear them, I just hope no one notices the logo on the hip.
I still have an AE coat from 10th grade (13 years ago – eesh) that’s held up really well, and is still in great shape. I’ve replaced the buttons, but am actually wearing it today. However, I wouldn’t recommend buying anything other than maybe sweaters, bags, and outerwear for a teen with the expectation that they would keep it for longer than two years. Cause you’re right, let’s be honest, our teen bodies are unlikely to be the same shape as our adult bodies.
All this talk is making me want to rethink shopping there as a grown adult. I like their sweaters better than anything I’ve seen at BR, AT, or Jcrew lately. Is that completely against the rules?
American Eagle. Hollister. Abercrombie. Aeropostale. If she’s sassy, maybe some Express.
Boden has a line called Johnnie B aimed at this age that has cute things.
Yes, and they finally changed the sizing! Originally this line was XS, S, M, L, XL, but on its own scale (since, after all, it’s meant to be for 10-16 year olds). But that meant that a slim 16 year old with measurements of, say, 34-28-34 would have been in a Large, which I object to on principle. (Now the sizes are ages, which is better)
Why would you object to being size L on principle? Gap, Lands’ End and others have lines for older girls which follow those sizes. I don’t care what size I’m wearing as long as the item fits.
+1. I think caring about the number on your tag is ridiculous. I get that we all have body issues, and the societal expectations of thinness sucks, but we really don’t need to make it any worse by indulging this nonsense.
Why? The Patriarchy.
Is this same Large also larger than the Medium and smaller than the Extra-Large?
What is your principle – if it had been in Spanish and said Grande would that have been acceptable?
My principle is that a size which is actually quite small was called ‘large’. Personally I found sizing out of clothes quite a horrible experience, that’s all.
The size is small for a full-grown adult and large for a child. If it’s a children’s line, it makes perfect sense.
My nieces that age love Aeropostale.
The Gap? They carry Tall sizes in tops and pants, so you could get a smaller size to fit her chest/hips but the garment would still be long enough. Their return policy is also 90 days, so returns would be easy.
My 14 year old daughter loves Aeropostle, Hollister, Rue 21, Forever 21, and H and M.
Hah. My niece is 11, has bigger feet than me, and is wearing XS women size tops, but her hips are far too narrow to wear women’s pants and leggings. She’s already sized out of size 14/16. When I took her and her sisters for pedicures on Veteran’s Day, I had to pay full price for her because she has size 7 1/2 feet.
Nordstrom Brass Plum department
I second that!
This. She can very easily exchange/return this way too.
Thank you all! I honestly either forgot these stores existed or did not know they offered tween things. The AE/Abercrombie selection online looks a bit more adult/sexy than I’m comfortable with, but Aeropostale/Boden/Gap all seem like good bets.
Also try department stores juniors department, Macys and Nordstroms have a good one. You’ll have to find things that are age appropriate, but juniors are cut to fit their bodies better (slimmer hips, smaller chests). This is why women shouldn’t shop in juniors!
I am 29 and I still shop in juniors. Women’s clothes are just too big for my small frame (I am too tall for petites).
Huh, I hadn’t thought of this–I have slim hips, so maybe checking out the juniors department for pants would be helpful for me.
If only Theory had teen line . . .
Boden often has free returns and their charts / reviews are very helpful. Their clothes are pretty without being too old or young. Otherwise, I don’t see a lot of quality at mall stores for her age group and many other things will just look old. Boden looks fun and happy and will last.
Yay! Freuegel Friday’s! I love Fruegel Friday’s and this dress, Kat, tho the price could be a littel lower, for FRIDAY, that is.
As for the OP, when I was 13, my mom and Grandma Trudy took me to Lord and Taylor’s where I first got a taste of NICE clotheing. Even tho it was more expensive then the Gap or Express or some other places that kid’s go to, it put me on the “classy track” where I can buy clothe’s that do NOT start pilling up after one or 2 trip’s to the dry cleaner’s or the laundry. FOOEY on cheep clothe’s that do that!
There is another OP up in the thread that has a boyfreind in the Investement Banking industry, while she is kind of Artsey. Mabye THAT is why I have not landed an Investement Banker — I am NOT artsey enough? I thought men look at us for our physical, NOT our mental abilitie’s. But now I think that the good men are to intimideated by me b/c I am a big lawyer, and not a timid artsey woman that will just say “YES–my man does all the thinkeing for BOTH of us!”
I do NOT want to be such a woman, but am afreaid that I will have to turn into a meek pretty littel girl b/f I can get an I-Banker to MARRY me. Even Willem, who did want to Marry me, wanted me to go and live on the farm with his family in Belgum– why would I give up all my educateion and training to do that? Even my mom was NOT thrilled with that — and Grandma also thought Willem might have had family that were collaborator’s with the Nazi’s! DOUBEL FOOEY!
Now Sam would probabley also have married me, but I think he was more interested in showeing me his winkie and haveing me do thing’s for him with it. I would NOT do this w/o a ring on my finger, and I think that he would have prefered takeing me for a test drive with that winkie. TRIPEL FOOEY!
Myrna said she know’s of another guy where she works that would date me. I realy hope this one is not a toad who just want’s sex. She said he know’s computer’s so mabye he can fix my wireless ROOTER so that it work’s with my MacBook Air’s internet connection at home. Right now, I have to use my Iphone at home, and most of the time I can NOT get a wifi signal. If this guy can fix it, even Dad will love him b/c I am racking up all kind of data charges from Verizen and Dad is mad b/c he is paying ALL of my bills. FOOEY!!!!!!
After reading the Rolling Stone article on UVA, I’m just feeling sick inside, and having trouble concentrating. Maybe I’m just out of touch, but I was blindsided by the reported rape culture and alleged acceptance of such incidents, partially because of the alums I know from the school. How do parents ever let their kids go to college after reading these things?
As a current college student… (Though I’m afraid I haven’t read the article yet) most of us just get on with it. The vast majority of us get through college unscathed. It’s not like being a student automatically makes me more at risk when I’m out and about. We have a vocal but small minority who try to make a difference, and any completely awful behaviour (usually by the rugby clubs in the UK…) gets brought down like a ton of bricks, but by and large we try to ignore it.
I don’t know that I’d say “the vast majority.” Yes, the majority of women get through college without being a victim of sexual assault, but ONE IN FIVE is sexually assaulted. That is TWENTY PERCENT! And it could be even higher – many women don’t report, or aren’t sure if what happened qualifies as sexual assault. There has been a lot of excellent media coverage on this issue, and I hope that talking about it and keeping the issue up front will help bring real results from college campuses.
The Rolling Stone article is incredible. These women are so brave.
I should have said relatively unscathed, sorry. I’ve been sexually assaulted on campus, luckily not seriously.
Every sexual assault is serious. I typed out a long post, but I didn’t want it to seem as if I was attacking you. I’ll post separately.
Incredible, right? I didn’t go to UVA, but I went to another ACC school. I can promise you that the same thing happens there, although perhaps not with the same volume. Now what the F are we going to do about this terrible issue?
What’s the alternative?
What was college like when you were there?
I think the (positive) difference is that today, there is more awareness and more discussion of campus rape culture.
Once I was involved in a discussion decrying the rising rate of rape as a sign of the decline of society. I retorted that the rising REPORTING of rape is A Good Thing. People should feel aware and empowered.
Very good point. While there’s more coverage about how terrible rape culture is on college campuses, I think we’re actually faring a lot better now than we were when no one was talking about it.
I graduated in 2008 – but my (very small) college handled assault allegations very differently. The president would send out emails to the college whenever something happened – suicide, rape allegations, anything big, describing the situation without details. A friend of mine who was sexually assaulted went straight to the hospital, and as far as I know, she was never discouraged from reporting anything, but she was a fairly outspoken person to begin with. We did kick two fraternities off campus in my time for repeated offenses (not sure if they were prosecuted or not), and cracked down on underage drinking a lot (making it a lot less fun to be a freshman). We also had a lot of those outspoken feminist groups mentioned in the article. But again, we were much smaller than UVA, and we weren’t a big Greek school to begin with, so I might’ve just not seen this side of my school.
Also I’m a lot less naive.
Excellent point. I graduated in 1990 and you wouldn’t believe what was swept under the rug then.
I’m not going to go into detail, but a relative of mine started college this fall and was sexually assaulted within 2 months. It’s been devastating to her and to our family, but the silver lining is that the university has been surprisingly good about how they have handled it and the resources they have available to her. So I do think there have been positive results from students, feminists and others putting so much pressure on schools to improve their handling of assaults.
It’s the first semester when women are the most vulnerable. So sorry that happened to your relative.
I have a daughter at UVA and TBH I don’t even like the school much.
However, this article focuses on UVA while I am certain similar culture exists in many other colleges. I also agree with previous posters that now that rape and assault are being reported and discussed more widely, there is hope that things finally start to change.
As an alum, that story has rattled me for the past two days. I do think it’s a national (international, really) problem, but that isn’t an acceptable excuse for the way that UVA has handled things. I keep returning to the quote “sunshine is the best disinfectant” – I hope that stories like this one, and the strong reaction that they provoke, will encourage university communities (including, importantly, the students themselves) to reevaluate the way they respond to sexual assault.
Another alumna, who had an experience I’d classify as “wouldn’t have consented sober”, who agrees with this.
I think it’s just more publicly known and in the spotlight nowadays (which is GOOD!). Nothing will change if people don’t write and vocalize the suppression of sexual assault victims. This happens at a lot of colleges (there’s a pretty famous article about a woman whose rapist was allowed to still attend the school). Hopefully moving the conversation forward will finally change things. I have to say, I went to Penn State and for all of the Jerry Sandusky stuff (which had pretty much nothing to do with student life on campus), they were really good about sexual assault prevention and treatment. Our first day on campus we had to go to a lecture and learn about positive consent (and this was 10 years ago). They said you must ask/receive a verbal YES to move forward with sex. While I’m sure a lot of sexual assaults happened and went unreported, it was helpful to have a supportive university system. Regardless of whether a woman goes to college or not 1/5 or 1/4 will be sexually assaulted by their early 20s. It’s a really sad fact of life but hopefully it can change.
Update: I do find it disturbing that her friends convinced her not to go to the police right away. I don’t think I would’ve ever experienced that in college.
Anon for this
I attended Wake Forest in the aftermath of a student going to the press about Wake’s cover-up of her sexual assault. It didn’t receive nearly the publicity as this article received, but it received enough publicity that they had to employ a team of Title IX consultants to come in, examine their policies, retrain all of the campus police and staff. I can’t speak to the effectiveness of the measures, but they *did* something about it, or at least tried.
I have extensive ties with UVA and was very shaken by how graphic the UVA student’s experience was, but the silver lining is that it will force UVA to examine its policies. The sad truth is that drawing this kind of publicity to the issue is exactly what needs to happen for a university to finally have some skin in the game.
I am not convinced it will force UVA to do anything that will make a true difference. There will be no difference made until these men and the fraternities are actually punished. Perhaps I am very cynical – I believe there be student groups and advocates who push for change and who attempt to hold the university’s feet to the fire, but I don’t believe for a second that any meaningful change will truly occur. The next news cycle will turn everyone’s focus to something else and that breaks my heart.
Rereading this article has whipped me into such a frenzy that I do not believe I can post a truly well thought out post about how I really feel. I am sickened and heart broken for these women. And all of the other women who go through a sexual assault and do not have the support system they need to feel comfortable reporting, to prosecute the men, to protect them from and support them through the attacks that WILL come against them and their character, and to realize they are NOT at fault.
How much of your wardrobe is seasonal or something you can’t wear more than half the year? For the first time I’m working in a place with actual seasons, and I’m also a minimalist when it comes to clothing, but there seems to be all this stuff I can’t really wear more than 6 or so (or less) months out of the year)
My commuting shoes, outerwear, and tights are season specific. My regular clothes like, dresses, skirts, tops, I can wear all year round. My office is the same temperature all year round, once I get inside.
I’m pretty much the same – I have a tweed dress that I don’t usually wear in actual summer (though I have – I mean, it’s sleeveless!) and I wouldn’t usually wear a long-sleeved sweater under a blazer when it’s hot, but almost all of my work wear is all year.
Same here. I add on layers when it’s colder. In summer, I would wear a sheath with heels. Now I wear that same dress with a cardigan, scarf, tights, and heeled boots.
I wear quite a few things year round. I have a few dresses and tanks that get put away in the winter and my wool stuff gets put away in the summer, but that’s prettymuch it. I get tropical weight suits which are good for all but the hottest days, wear cardigans year round, and stuff like (non-wool) trousers and skirts gets worn all the time. I’m also a minimalist, so I often tend to just switch out tights for bare legs and add or subtract a scarf or jacket to make stuff work.
The fact that the men I work with enjoy the room temp to hover somewhere around ‘meat locker’ ensures that my cardigans are well worn year round.
I totally have things that I wear only seasonally. Cropped pants are not a winter thing, but my wool sweaters are. Wool and cashmere sweaters (except for the merino wool cardigans) don’t get used in the summer. Some dresses only get summer or winter play because the colors feel really odd in the other season (dark gray just doesn’t feel summer-y to me).
There is a lot that does transition for use in at least 3 seasons when using different shoes, tights, insulating under-layers and such.
Even though I live in a place that never gets all that cold, I still have a few things I only break out in the winter months. I have a tweed skirt that I adore and I often get over-excited and wear it in October. Even though that’s when our weather is the hottest. Seasons are hard.
I’m a big seasonal dresser, partially because I like to rotate colors with the season. Pretty much the only work clothes I wear year round are lightweight wool suits, black heels and flats, a couple sheath dresses, and one or two cardigans. My tops and pants and most of my dresses feel very “summer” or “winter” to me, because I like saturated colors like coral and bright yellow (summer), and eggplant and emerald (winter).
I recently started traveling more for work and it causes tension with my fiancee. For example: Last night we had a client dinner and it went almost 3 hours and he doesn’t understand how that’s possible. Conversations were flowing easily and there was lots to discuss. I don’t know how else to convey that. I really want him to feel comfortable with me traveling and the fact that nothing inappropriate is happening.
No advice unfortunately but I’ve been your fiance in that situation (not frequent work travel but occasional 3-day company-wide retreats in another city) and it’s really terrible sitting at home having those thoughts. Of course he should trust you but I hope you’ll try to be reassuring as well.
You’re at a work dinner, you explained that to him, and he thinks you’re cheating? Red flags!
I pretty much agree.
Yep. Unless there’s more to this story (like a history that gives him some legitimate reason for concern), this sounds like a very troubling lack of basic trust in you and your relationship.
+1——- need to address underlying trust issues.
Yes. I travel extensively for work and my husband has no problem not hearing from me when I’m out drinking with work friends all evening.
I agree, this is a bit weird. I have never had thoughts like that about my SO, nor has he made comments about my work travel/dinners.
The only time he has made a comment has been when I was travelling alone (so, no coworkers actually) in a large city where I didn’t speak the language. He seemed concerned for my safety, so was often checking up on what time I went out to dinner, how long I was out, where did I go, etc.
But if I dine or even sightsee with male colleagues, he feels better because he knows I’m safe. Standard rape culture response, but what are you going to do.
Thoughts as a spouse of someone who works extremely long/late hours including weekends. He may as well be traveling:
– You HAVE to trust your partner. I’ve had people comment “Your husband was “at the office” until 2am on Saturday? …are you sure?” But I am sure, so we’re okay.
– Was he actually upset because he thought that the dinner would be short enough for you to be home in time to watch tv together, etc? Maybe he needs better heads up before you leave (“talkative client, probably not home until midnight”) or a check-in text if it’s running late? I don’t necessarily care when my husband gets home, but it’s really important to me that I can anticipate when he’ll be home. He usually overestimates by an hour or two, which I appreciate.
– I don’t work in a field that often has client dinners, etc, so there was a learning curve for me. I really needed him to be explicit about how long he’d be gone, etc.
“Was he actually upset because he thought that the dinner would be short enough for you to be home in time to watch tv together, etc? Maybe he needs better heads up before you leave”
Consider this. I made the mistake early on of minimizing the time I’d be spending away, thinking I was doing the right thing by suggesting that I wouldn’t be out late or gone long. And inevitably, I would be out later than I’d told my bf. And that was really the reason he’d get upset. Because I was setting up unreasonable expectations and not following through. Now I give him a realistic estimate of when I’ll return and I don’t make promises I can’t keep (like telling him I’ll get groceries on the way home).
From personal experience-red flag.
I wonder if this is just a difference in perspective. Perhaps from his perspective, he doesn’t hear from you all day and then you dodge questions about the dinner – even if perfectly reasonable bc you don’t want to talk about work. after a long day. Perhaps that is a change from your normal communication and the difference threw him off. Perhaps something is going on with him and you didn’t ask. I’m not saying one side is more reasonable or right than the other, but sometimes we assume things from our partners or they don’t fully communicate the problem.
Does he work in a totally different field? I travel more often than my husband for work but we both get that work dinners are still work, and often (on both sides) if we’re at a conference or working all day, then a work dinner at night we won’t talk for more than a quick 5 minute catch up call. We both get that work travel is exhausting as you’re ‘on’ all day, and that those dinners are still work and not really optional. I’d really struggle with marrying someone who couldn’t get that aspect of my job.
But, with our parents who had very blue collar jobs, I see that they’ve struggled to understand why I can’t ‘just call to chat and catch up with your family’ or ‘just skip the dinner tonight’ or made comments like ‘do you really have to go to that event? you worked all day!’ (even though the event is part of the job).
Yeah, at first I agreed with all the commenters saying maybe your boyfriend has trust issues.
But now I wonder if (instead OR in addition) he has career issues, and HE wants to be the one having client dinners all evening? Does he know what goes on in a client dinner – it isn’t necessarily like Mad Men.
Sorry but that’s a big red flag- unless it was something like you told him youd be calling at 8, and then you didn’t call until 1 am- but based on your wording it doesn’t sound like the problem is your not setting clear expectations, it sounds like he objects in principle to a 3 hour dinner. So it sounds like a red flag to me.
If he’s worried you’re cheating because he can’t fathom what actual business travel is like, he needs to fix that. Not you.
This is his issue to work on. There is nothing you can do to make him comfortable, he just has to get comfortable.
Don’t get married until this is resolved. You don’t want to be blind-sided by a jealous husband who assumes that now that you are married it’s not appropriate for you to go to dinner with male colleagues or whatever.
A slightly different take
So I will say that, if this is your first long work dinner, he may be surprised b/c he had no idea what to expect. When I started travelling frequently for work, my SO was initially surprised that (1) work dinners are not optional and (2) they are looooong. Because they don’t exist in his industry. But once he understood that this is par for the course, there were no more questions. Now, I get supportive funny texts telling me to keep my energy up and be at my A-game!
Also, my SO understands now that by the end of a day of business travel, I am beyond done. I love him, but I don’t want to talk to him. I don’t want to talk to anyone. I just want to sort of stumble around my hotel room (from fatigue, not booze) and maybe drink some chamomile tea and watch some TV and then crash.
I am waiting on an appointment for a lump biopsy and, despite the doctor’s “99% certainty it’s a (benign, normal-tissue) fibroadenoma, I am terrified.
Has anyone has a core biopsy done? Any experiences with this while I await in fear? Thanks, ladies.
anon for this
Not a doctor, but work extensively on research in the field.
Radiologists are VERY good at guessing from mammograms whether something is benign or not. The tissue looks very different from the lesion is malignant. If they say that are 99% sure it’s a fibroadenoma, it probably is.
Have you had an ultrasound yet? If not, they will probably do one during the biopsy. That way, they can poke the needle right into the lesion. Ultrasound is also more sensitive at picking up lesions, and the way the sound bounces through them can tell the radiologist more about it – malignant lesions look one way, fibroadenomas and other benign structures look another way.
After the procedure, they might do another mammogram to see if they got the right spot (though this is more common for very suspicious lesions that are only visible on mammograms, like calcifications).
Also, core biopsy results should come back VERY quick. If you’re a nervous wreck waiting, call the office. Then ask for the pathologist’s info and call them.
The percentage of cases sent to biopsy that come back malignant is very, very small. Hugs and hoping yours comes back benign as well!!
Been there, done that
I had a 1.5cm fibroadenoma when I was in college (20+ years ago). I opted for a surgical biopsy, and the surgeon removed the lump entirely. The surgeon was, like your doctor, 99.9% sure it was a normal, benign fibroadenoma, and offered to do a needle-aspiration biopsy or to watch and wait. Like you, I was freaked out, & just wanted to get it out. If this had happened when I was 10 or 20 years older, I’d probably opt to watch & wait. It was totally benign, the surgery was minor and the incision small – but it was a stressful experience; there was much less information then and it was not as easily available. Anon for this (above) is spot on.
Take care – I’ll be thinking of you!
I had a fibroadenoma removed a few years ago. Just like you, I was told it was 99% likely a fibroadenoma. My biopsy was inconclusive — apparently they couldn’t get a large enough tissue sample because the lump was so mobile (which is a big indicator that it’s NOT cancerous). It was up to me whether to remove it or not — that’s how 99.99% certain my doctor was based on her feel of it that it was benign. I had it removed surgically for peace of mind and so I didn’t have to worry about distinguishing good lumps vs. bad lumps down the road. If you’re in Massachusetts, I’d highly recommend my doctor.
In law school in my early 20s, with no familial history or other reasons to think I should be looking out for lumps, I found a lump. I am slightly embarrassed to admit I’ve forgotten what specifically it was but I believe it was a fibroadenoma, too. Had biopsy, results were inconclusive, and so out it came. The surgery was NBD, I have a small scar, but it was benign and life goes on (including BFing three kids).
The main thing I took away is that BC was probably to blame: the oncologist told me that my br**sts were “over-stimulated” because of the hormones of my (low dose) BC. I’m now Team IUD.
It’s not easy to tamp down the stress and anxiety and fear, but fibroadenomas have distinct characteristics compared to other lumps, so if the doctor told you they were 99% sure, I would have confidence in that.
I’ve gone through this 2x. The first time, 10 years ago, I had a doctor’s appointment, and then was referred for a mammogram, and then for a biopsy. After the last test, I think I had to wait a week for the results. I was completely freaking out as I’ve had several relatives with breast cancer, but luckily the diagnosis was benign fibroadenoma. I opted for surgery to remove it so I wouldn’t always be worrying about whether it had changed size or density. A few months ago I found another one, in the other breast. I went to a university hospital and I can’t speak highly enough about the experience — it was just so well-orgranized. They scheduled all my tests one right after the other in the morning, and then the doctors all got together and looked at the results together, and then I came back in the afternoon and they gave me the diagnosis (or would have scheduled more tests if necessary). In approximately 2 hours I had a manual exam, mammogram, ultrasound, and biopsy. During the ultrasound the doctor told me it looked like a fibroadenoma, but they would consider all the information. I left the hospital and met a friend for lunch, and when I returned 3 hours later the doctor gave me the good news that it was a benign fibroadenoma (I think 1.5 cm but can’t remember), and this time I opted to monitor it instead of surgery.
The comments from all of the female lawyers siding with the bar examiners are kind of awesome. (I agree – breastfeeding is not a disability that requires more time. The bar exam is a big deal. She will be fine for two days.)
Her baby will be fine. I’m not convinced she will be. Having your breasts full of milk you don’t have time to pump is physically painful.
+1. It’s hard to focus on the bar exam when your breasts are painful and hard and leaking milk everywhere.
It can also lead to mastitis (which knocked me down harder than the flu when I had it!)
yep. I had a fever of 105 for 3 days with mastitis. it was terrible.
I agree she may be very uncomfortable and may not be able to focus on the test. But isn’t that on her? Take the test on the next date! It seems wildly unfair to let her have an extra half hour of time. Talk about a slippery slope of requests for accommodations…
In 6 months? You think it’s more fair to make her wait 6 months to start her career instead of giving her 15 mins to pump in the morning and afternoon sessions during which she can’t work on the exam?
Also people do already get accommodations.
totally disagree. she will only be one month or less post-partum. breastfeeding at that time is still very difficult. not pumping for that entire time, in addition to being very painful, may significantly decrease her milk supply, making it more difficult, if not impossible, to breast feed going forward.
a reasonable accommodation in this situation would be to give her a private room in which to take the test and therefore allow her to pump during the test.
I agree, anon-oh-no.
I’d be fine with that accommodation. Not giving her more time for the exam due to wanting to pump during the exam.
Except that it is, in a way, a temporary disability. It’s not an option to simply hold it in during the exam. If you’re breastfeeding, you have to pump. And that can take 30 min.
Or just whip your breast out during the exam and start manually expressing milk onto the floor. Which I vote she does.
Except you do get an hour for lunch? So if she pumps in the morning, pumps during lunch and then pumps after she should be ok. Not ideal but life never is. I would have given her the accommodation but I also don’t think she will be harmed by this to the degree people suggest.
(former) preg 3L
“An hour for lunch” in some bar exam locations (like Javits) is FAR less than an hour (because it takes so darn long to release people), and I had to stand in a bathroom stall to pump, which I would not have been able to do one month postpartum (pumping was still too new and I wouldn’t have been able to express any milk). Expressing milk isn’t the same as pouring water out of a cup. If you can’t relax enough to have a letdown, you can’t express milk.
At 1 month, 4 hours without pumping would have been excruciating for me. So even the lunch idea does not work.
(former) preg 3L
This whole thread makes me very angry on behalf of the young woman. There was a productive conversation over on the Moms page, that is much more in touch with the realities of postpartum bodily needs.
Are you serious? Unless you have actually nursed a one month old baby, seriously just stop. I can’t believe this is a debate. How sad.
(former) preg 3L
And boo to the commentor who gave plus-one to the women going with the bar examiners.
I am a nursing mother lawyer. I am very pro-nursing. I am still pumping twice a day at work and exclusively breastfeeding at home, including in the middle of the night because that’s what my baby wants and needs (baby is almost a year old). I breastfeed in public.
HOWEVER, I also think that what this woman has asked for does give her an advantage over test takers because while she is pumping, she has additional time to think about the questions. The bar is a timed test, and doesn’t just measure your ability to know and understand the information it asks, but also whether you can get it out there in the allotted time. (much like many law school exams). A better, more reasonable accommodation may be to allow her to leave the test center first so she can start pumping immediately during her lunch break.
She should get an area that is not a bathroom and she should be able to pump right before and right after the morning session, but an extra thirty minutes DURING the test gives her a huge advantage. Unless that could do it in such a way where she wouldn’t have the opportunity to see the essay questions before the pumping break.
+ 1 million.
Seeking recommendations! Rain booties to wear mostly with skinny jeans, but that are WARM??? I have Reynaud’s Syndrome, so circulation in the toes is a real issue when the cold rain hits. Would love suggestions. I’m a size 6 and hoping for suggestions in the < $150 range.
You need something lined. These come in a short and tall version. Short, below:
Just throwing this out there, HotHands (the brand that makes the disposable hand warmers) makes a warming sock. They;re about $20, but if you have Reynauds they are a miracle.
Favorite turkey-roasting suggestions? I am not brining. I’m particularly interested in knowing whether you use a bag, tenting, how long you cook at what temperature for so the white meat doesn’t get too dry. My turkey’s about 17 pounds. I really don’t love turkey myself so I only make it on Thanksgiving, usually every other year when I’m hosting. I always forget what works, and I’m interested in new tips.
I use the butter under the skin method, no bag and then tent for about an hour somewhere in the middle of cooking it and this recipe always turns out wonderfully:
Ditto to the butter under the skin method. My compound butter also uses pancetta for extra fat/flavor.
This, except I used a bag because I do not have the patience to baste with pan juices every 20 minutes and I used onions because the grocery store was out of leeks, added like 4-5 bulbs of garlic, and cajun blend seasoning because I like spices. With a 17 lb turkey, I’d use a little more butter, but this was a very yummy turkey that I then used leftovers to make enchiladas.
But really, bags are 100% the way to go.
I use that recipe minus the brining – it has come out delicious w/ a plain old butterball and with a pre-brined bird from TJs
I make a smaller bird (+/- 12 lbs) and I start it out br*ast down on the roasting rack, and then turn it over about halfway through cooking. The br*ast stays moist, and the rack marks on it disappear by the time it’s finished cooking. A 17 lb bird might be a challenge, but if you have a helper I bet can you do this (or if you are tall and strong – I am short and weak).
ha! I’m not tall but pretty strong, however not coordinated enough to try to turn a hot, slippery, turkey. THanks to all for the replies! Most of the recipes seem to indicate starting at a high temp like 450-500 and turning down to 350 after 20 minutes or so, so that’s what I think I’ll do.