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A bunch of my Amazon Prime Day orders arrived last week, and as usual I bought way too many lip products. I had at some point in the past found this “Melting Glasting Balm” product, and spent way too long picking out colors, but then decided not to buy, so I had still had it on one of my lists. While reviewing my lists, I saw that it was on a big sale in the Prime day sales.
(I probably should have mentioned that Prime Day tip, eh? — that if you put products in your lists you can quickly check to see if anything is included in the sale? I think they have them twice a year, so… now you know.)
Anyway, the color I got is a great MLBB color for me. The consistency is a bit heavier than Dior Addict, which I think this is a pretty decent dupe for (although I still think this one is a more direct dupe). I like that it feels like a substantial lip product, though. It isn't overly matte or shiny when it goes on, nor is it overly sticky.
I like the way it wears — very comfortable. I got the color “Mauve Whip;” it's under $20 at Amazon today; you can see other colors for the product here. Here's a picture I made for myself comparing some swatches of new products I bought (I told you I bought too many!) — the NARS set from the Anniversary Sale, Grape Soda, the glasting melt, and then the Peripera mauve I wrote about the other day. (It seemed a bit close to the first NARS color I swatched, so I put a dab of it next to that color to directly compare.) (Of the bunch, I like them all — Grape Soda is probably my least favorite because it's a marker tint so it can be a bit drying. I need to play with it more, though.)
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – 11/5 only – 60% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Up to 30% off on new arrivals
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
Anon
How is everyone getting involved for Kamala? I have signed up to facilitate phone-banking, set up monthly donations, and am going to try to start sharing events on social media and with my friends. I wish I had more friends in swing-states (or that I lived in a swing state myself) so that I could try to help get people registered to vote. Anyone have any other recommendations for getting involved?
If you haven’t yet, there are a ton of great volunteer opportunities and calls to join on mobilize.us. You can facilitate trainings, phone bank, help with data entry, and more. Also super easy to register to vote at vote.org if you haven’t yet (share the link with friends!).
So much momentum is building behind her and it’s so wonderful to finally feel hopeful!
Josie P
My DD just applied for an internship w/ the campaign – not sure if they take HS students but she did a resume for it and it looks great!
Anon
Aww that is so beautiful!! Props to you for raising such a civically engaged and conscientious young woman!!
Anon
Correct me if this isn’t off base but once early voting starts, doesn’t everyone need door knockers and get-out-the-vote boots in the ground? Drivers and such? Just blasting out texts, especially since old votes have trouble voting and younger people seem apathetic, won’t do the trick.
Sunshine
Do the text campaigns work at all? I get a ton of texts for all kinds of candidates. I don’t read them, and I do block them. I vote in every election and find these just annoying.
Anon
I’m not sure about text-banking, but phone-banking is definitely huge for getting people to the polls. It functions as a reminder for people to register to vote, or to actually vote. Even if only 1% of calls lead to a new voter, at the scale of millions of calls being made, that’s enough to swing batteground states.
Anon.
The texts make me angry at this point.
Anon
Me too. I want to donate but hesitate to do so because of the vast quantity of spam that inevitably follows.
Anon
Agreed. I get texts from both parties, and I unsubscribe every single time.
Anon
This is a great point! I’m in a deep blue district is a deep blue state, so phone-banking is the closest I can get for the GOTV efforts, but anyone in battleground states should definitely door-knock and volunteer to drive voters to the polls.
Anonymous
Not to hijack your question but for people getting involved, are there or will there be resources on how best to vote? I mean I know you can go in person on election day, absentee by mail, early in person etc. I have to imagine Trump will do every possible thing to challenge as many votes as possible. So is there some calculus out there that if you can’t vote in person on election day, you should do x because that’s harder to challenge than doing y? Is it easier to challenge votes that come in later like say absentee? Or will this vary by state?
Anon
Absentee by mail was such a big thing in 2020 because of this pandemic. In most states, it won’t be an option this year unless you have specific circumstances (like you attend college out of state and are registered to vote in your hometown).
Anon
Very state dependent, I’ve been absentee by mail for years for all elections.
A.n.o.n.
+1
Illinois allows a permanent remote voting option, no reason required
Anon
All four registered voters in my California home (two parents, two college students) vote by mail every election. I don’t recall any obstacles to signing up for it, and actually don’t remember the process at all. I used to have a travel heavy job and couldn’t rely on being here on voting day.
Calif voter
Yes very, very state dependent. The experience of the Anon in California doesn’t really signify anything. I don’t recall ever hearing about California disenfranchising voters. Unfortunately. That’s not the case elsewhere.
Calif voter
Ooops the period should be a comma.
Anon
Not in Michigan! We are finally able to check a little box to get an absentee ballot for this and all future elections. It is so lovely.
Anon
My state allowed me to become a permanent absentee voter after I requested to vote absentee during the pandemic.
Anonymous
So far: money, mailing postcards, and personal conversations with people in my sphere to help build enthusiasm (not converting votes but people who were maybe hesitant or reluctant to vote at all)
Anonymous
I don’t understand what good phone banking, canvassing, etc. are supposed to do. The only things I can see possibly making a difference in turnout are registering voters and providing transportation to the polls. People either care enough to show up and vote or they don’t. Knocking on their door or calling or sending a postcard isn’t going to change their intentions.
Anon
This is just not actually true. A lot of people only do things if they feel a little social impetus to do them. If people feel like their vote isn’t wanted or needed, then turn out is lower. Encouraging people can really change how they feel.
Anonymous
Get out the vote efforts just annoy me and make me think less of the candidate. I still vote, but the phone call or door knock from some patronizing young a-hole creates some resentment.
Anon
That is a bizarre reaction. Even if only 1% of people who receive a door-knock vote when they wouldn’t have otherwise, at the scale of millions of calls and doors, that is still a huge impact. Be excited to see young people engaged and volunteering for a cause you care about, not angry.
Anonymous
It’s not to get you to vote — it’s to get others to vote who otherwise wouldn’t. And it works.
anonshmanon
Can you say more about why you feel resentment? Is this to do with specific canvassers that you have encountered? Something else?
Anon
I’m not the OP but it bugs me too – you’re using my contact info for stuff I didn’t opt in for it being used for, you’re interrupting my schedule for your own plan, and I do not want unsolicited texts or calls from any organization, ever (including non profit I donate too, and the worst offender, the Red Cross – you can have my blood but for the love of all that is good, please forget my phone number). Plus it always feels fake, like the door to door salesperson who needs to say your name 3 times because they’re trainer said that would “build a rapport”.
Anon
If the reminder or personal engagement is helpful to some folks, that is great – but I would love to see both parties agree to a shared Do Not Call list, and respect it.
Anon
Phone-banking and cavassing have a demonstrably significant impact on voter turnout. Both can help remind people to register to vote, in addition to reminding them to turn out to the polls. A few years ago I was exhausted after work and not planning to show up at the poll, but getting a call from an earnest phone-banker reminded me that it was important and I wound up voting when I otherwise wouldn’t have. Door-knocking is even more powerful for increasing voter turnout.
It’s okay if you don’t feel up for it, but don’t spread defeatist misinformation that organizing and canvasing isn’t impactful.
anon
Thank you for sharing your story.
I have many peers (especially in my 20s and 30s) that couldn’t be bothered to vote. It was really startling to me. Talking up voting really makes a difference.
Anon
It makes a big difference, especially with younger voters. They wouldn’t do it if it didn’t work. If you’re already voting, you’re clearly not the target audience, but lots of people don’t vote without a reminder or a push to do it.
Former Campaign Staffer
If you can vote early in person do that as soon as early voting begins.
Trump is pushing early voting this year at his rallies, so you should feel confident in your in-person early vote.
Some states have some intense vote by mail rules (especially around signature matching). They are more likely to be challenged in general, and especially by Republican election officials.
If you early vote your name is going to be taken off the contact lists!! So if you are tired of people asking you to vote – vote ASAP and they will stop pestering you!!!!!
Finally, inconsistent voters and registered independents are the most likely to be canvassed so may I suggest choosing a party and voting in primaries and special elections?
Anon
In my state I don’t need to register with a party to vote in primaries. It’s nice to be able to vote in either primary based on which is likely to affect me more.
Anon
“So if you are tired of people asking you to vote – vote ASAP and they will stop pestering you”
Unless you’ve given them even a tiny amount of money. I voted way early in 2020 but got constant texts up until election day asking for money because I gave Biden like $50 at one point.
Anon
I did phone banking for Hillary so may do that again. You’re calling likely your-candidate voters in key states so it wasn’t so miserable. But I think a lot fewer people actually answer their phones in 2024 vs 2016.
I was also at someone’s house in a room full of well meaning elders who couldn’t figure out how to use their phones (it was a bring your own device thing) and spent a lot of my time trying to help them figure out how to call into the robo dialer and get it started.
Did I change anyone’s vote? Unlikely. But I did remind some people to vote.
Anon
I’m shocked that anyone answers phones anymore.
Anon
Donating and talking to people about how excited I am for Kamala. When it’s closer to the election, I’d like to make some time to door knock. Not sure what I’ll do on Election Day – I’ve done the election protection hotline in the past so maybe that
Anon
Has anyone ever worked with a recruiter to anonymously job search (or is there another way to do this)? I’m a lawyer, would like to switch to paralegal work, but don’t want an application to end up in the hands of opposing counsel. Most of the job postings in my area are through Robert Half or similar, so you can’t see what firm you’re applying to. Anyone navigated this before?
Anonymous
Typically recruiters will shop you anonymously, get a bite, then reach out to you to see if you are okay lifting the veil for that particular employer. At least that is what is happening for me right now. And you are right to be concerned. I have definitely been marketed to recent direct adversaries.
Anon
Why would you want to do that? All the time and none of the status or pay.
FE
This is a really negative way to think about a team. If that’s the situation for your staff, I do feel for them, but there are also places where a good paralegal is worth their weight in gold, and they are treated as such.
Anon
It’s called reality, I never saw a law firm where it was a good move to go backwards.
Anonymous
Omg +1 million. No shade on paralegals but it’s not just leaning out on a law career. It’s just as rough with none of the respect and perks.
Anon
I agree with you. I’m an ex-lawyer myself and my current career doesn’t use my law degree, so I don’t think there’s any shame in leaving the law or choosing a career so you can lean out and spend more time with family, but I never would have wanted to be a paralegal. There’s something about going backwards along the exact same career path that seems like it would be really toxic, and I’ve never seen a law firm where paralegals are treated well. If you don’t want to be a lawyer anymore, better to just get away from law firm culture completely.
Anon
A good paralegal is worth their weight in gold, but they aren’t *paid* in the same amount of gold as a lawyer. It’s all of the stress, half of the pay.
anon
You might be surprised… My Mom was a big law paralegal for many years and made good money. We used to ask her… “why don’t you become a lawyer?” She just laughed at us. She loved it. Totally different intensity/stress level and her writing skills were so good she had her pick of work/lawyers. She was raising 3 kids too and was a super mom.
Anon
The difference here is your mom didn’t already have a law degree.
Anon.
Paralegals can make more than lawyers and don’t have the ultimate responsibility. I just want to be the decision maker and that comes with its own stress.
Anon
Why can’t we assume OP actually knows what she wants? Why the hostility?
Anyway, one of my former colleagues was a paralegal for a while before she finished law school and passed the bar. She made more as a paralegal than most of the younger attorneys did because she got paid for overtime as a non-exempt employee. She was definitely working the same hours as the team but those long hours didn’t result in extra comp for the attorneys. So I reject your argument there.
Anon
lol okay, sure, the right measure for comp is entry level lawyers not earning potential.
Anon
When I was in Big Law paralegals definitely didn’t out earn junior associates. They made good money – this was early 2010s when the junior associates started at $160k plus bonus and paralegals usually made around $120k including overtime – but not as much as lawyers, and the lawyer salaries skyrocketed fast (I think 5th years made like $225k) while paralegal salaries stayed basically flat.
Associates also worked MUCH more. Our paralegals stayed late maybe once or twice a month for a filing deadline, otherwise they were pretty much in the office 40 hours a week. Associates were expected to work at least 60 hours a week and often much more. Basically attorneys have to find work to do to make their hours, even if there isn’t a looming deadline. Paralegals only work overtime when there’s a looming deadline.
Anon
As someone who was a biglaw paralegal for a decade, and has been a lawyer now for about a decade…OMG being a paralegal was worse in every possible way. Pay, worse. Being asked to drop everything for an urgent matter, daily, worse. Dealing with inexperienced neurotic junior attorneys–worse. Did I make six figures as a paralegal–you bet. Did I have to earn it by working a ton of overtime, often not on a timeline I’d have chosen. Also yes. Did I like being a paralegal? I did…at at time. But I am so, so glad I’m not a paralegal anymore.
I make 4x as much as an attorney, control my time (in terms of working hours), can outsource what I don’t want to do, control my day/have autonomy in what I work on when…
The benefits of attorney versus paralegal are incomparable.
FWIW, i’m in house, and I would not hire an attorney trying to be a paralegal–this never ends well, because attorneys cannot stay in the paralegal lane. I’d absolutely hire an attorney doing legal ops, and I encourage you to think about that as a more interesting, more strategic and much better paid alternative to being a paralegal.
Anon
+1 to moving to legal ops, especially if you either do contracts work or litigation.
Anon
Not the OP. Maybe she’s in a small firm, can’t really move to a big firm (doesn’t have the resume required in her area, whatever that is), eats what she kills, and has crappy benefits. One possibility.
I would suggest compliance, contract management, or other JD-preferred jobs if those are an option.
Cat
To the tip – that showed me that Prime Day had fake discounts on the items in my ‘saved for later.’ The list price shown on Prime Day was about 40% higher than the usual going rate for several items, and then the sale price was 10-20% higher than the usual going rate. (You know how they fluctuate up and down a few dollars over time? The sale price was the highest regular price I’d ever seen on a non-sale day.)
Anon
I bought a device that supposedly retails for $119 and was on sale for $96. The day after Prime day it was listed for $92. Lesson learned…
Kat G
that’s interesting! the Amazon algorithm they use for pricing makes it hard to compare — affiliates like bloggers aren’t even supposed to put prices on posts because they change so often.
Cat
I use it for stuff that I’m non-urgently comparison shopping for so that it’s right in my face (as opposed to finding the right wish list) and so perhaps am more sensitive than the average consumer, but when an item that’s been hovering in the $36-$40 range is suddenly $55 and “on sale” for $39 for Prime Day, I smell a rat.
Sierra Madre, Treasure of
Yeah I checked my different lists and most items I’d saved were significantly marked up, then “discounted.” Only a couple things were genuinely a better value on Prime Day.
anon
wait… how can you see what prices were in the past, if they are constantly changing? When you place it in your cart but “save for later”, does it lock in that price for you too?
Cat
anon- it doesn’t show you the price history. I just know from having glanced at the list every time I check out.
Anon
I’ve used Camel Camel Camel to check Amazon price histories before. Haven’t used it lately, so I’m not sure if it’s still a helpful resource.
Carrots
Any recommendations for Vienna and Salzburg at Christmas? I’m planning a trip with a friend over the holidays for Christmas markets (which includes my birthday, so if someone has a Sound of Music tour recommendation they did, would also love that!). This will be my first trip to Austria, so any type of recommendations is helpful! Thanks!
Anon
You can’t go wrong with any of the city markets in either location. Don’t forget to hit up the egg ornament store in Salzburg (blanking on the name but you can Google it and it’ll come up). I’d also make time to see the Lipizzaner performance in Vienna, the Hofburg Treasury, and all the coffee houses you can squeeze into your time there. Vienna and Salzburg in one week over Thanksgiving before the pandemic was one of our best trips ever.
Anon
Ahhh, I did this during the Christmas markets. For Salzburg, if you’re interested in the cemetery, if you go early in the morning sometimes you can get a fresh coat of snow and no people, and it’s so serene and beautiful.
Also you can take a funicular up to the fortress, but you can also walk it going through some beautiful neighborhoods.
smurf
ah you’ll have the best time! they are truly magical. Plan ahead for lots of space (esp in carry on) to bring treasures home! honesty my only regret from when I was there is not buying more ornaments, haha, they are so far superior to anything in the US.
Z
I’m the poster who asked about engagement rings last week. We went to a family owned local jeweler last week that had very limited options to look at, but they ordered some more settings and stones for me to look at that will come in week. We also went to a large local chain that had seemingly endless options so I could see more. I have a much better idea of what I want now and we’re going to order a custom ring through the family owned jeweler. Thanks for all the advice last week!
Anonymous
Ooh! I want to hear about it when you decide. What will it look like? I’m married 15+ years, but I still love hearing about engagement ring selection and dress selection. In another life, I think I would have loved to be a wedding planner.
Anon
Has anyone washed the going out blazer from J. Crew? It says dry clean only. Shell is 75% viscose, 22% polyamide, 3% eslastane. Lining is 100% polyester.
Anon
Viscose often shrinks, so I would not do it.
Anon
I own it but would never try to wash it. I send it to the dry cleaner.
Anonymous
I have. It came out fine in terms of shape after a steam, but I feel like there was some minor color loss. It just feels duller. But I have worn it since and still have my job, get paid the same, and did not lose a case or a client over it.
Anon
Yes, several times with the two different ones I own. I wash on perma-press or delicate in cold water because the wrinkles are hard to get out otherwise, tumble dry for about 5-10 minutes, then iron while they are still damp. Hang to finish drying down deep, steam any remaining wrinkles.
No fading noted (one is solid navy and the other is a dark heather grey), and no shrinking.
CC
I washed my black one by hand in cold water and I notice some slight fading.
Indian
In the mood for Indian this week, any favorite Indian food recipes?
Anonymous
The Dishoom Chicken Ruby recipe, available at I Am a Food Blog, is a ton of work but amazing. For something quicker, the Once Upon a Chef butter chicken.
Anonymous
this one is pretty good!
https://www.skinnytaste.com/cauliflower-rice-chicken-biryani/
Anon
This is in my weeknight rotation and never gets old: https://thecurrymommy.com/chana-masala/
anon
I just made one of my favorites, but roasting the beets takes awhile. But I love it so so so so much…
https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1013864-roasted-beets-with-chiles-ginger-yogurt-and-indian-spices
Anon
This dal is my favorite!
https://www.ambitiouskitchen.com/dal-recipe/
Only note is that I often have to cook it a bit extra to get the lentils cooked through.
Anon
in mod for link… but the “Best Dal Ever” from the Ambitious Kitchen blog
Anon
If you have an Instant Pot, this is the best
https://twosleevers.com/instant-pot-butter-chicken/
Senior Attorney
These are favorites around here:
https://www.recipetineats.com/one-pan-baked-butter-chicken/?fbclid=IwAR1L-SNCRpSl1ZA975OZN8fL5M4FPsK9hVNkDMT5XGSPLwLELMKPk3zoSlM
https://thewanderlustkitchen.com/indian-naan-bread/
Anonymous
I just got a Whoop band and am liking it so far — I’m surprised how much I like that there is no screen. But the sleep seems really off — last night I was hung over and up from like 4am onwards and Whoop was like, 100% sleep, well done! Does it get better over time?
(General question — what personal metrics do you track regularly, in general, whether with Whoop or not? Sleep? Heart rate? Blood pressure?)
Anon
That was my experience with FitBit – “yay, you slept like a rock for 8 hours!” when 2 of those hours were tossing and turning and other two were lying away staring at the ceiling.
Sunshine
Not popular here, but I track weight regularly. Sometimes I track calories and/or macros. I keep a spreadsheet with information about weightlifting exercise but not cardio.
Anon
I had an oura ring, and it tracked my sleep quite accurately. It could tell if I was up futzing on my phone and my sleep was interrupted. Recommend.
anon
My oura ring can tell if I had a few drinks the night before. Higher heartrate, worse HRV, less deep sleep. So that seems accurate, because it’s very consistent in that pattern.
Anon
Agree with the comments about oura ring. Sleep tracking is incredibly accurate, especially for tracking when drinking or late-night eating is interfering with the quality of your sleep. My stats are the same as others noted when I drink too much (HR stays elevated too long at night, lower HRV, etc.).
Anon
NJ people: anyone else have a birth certificate that just says you were born and where / when? Mine does not list my parents and I wasn’t adopted. They look hella fake to people in the state I live in now.
Anon
It sounds like you have the short-form version of your birth certificate (some counties provide these to the parents immediately after birth for short-term use). You can get a copy of the long form certificate from the state. Here are the instructions:
https://www.nj.gov/health/vital/
Anonymous
My NJ birth certificate lists my parents (Mercer County). I was born in 1978 and got a new copy of my BC by mail around 2022.
anon
my soon to be 17 yo son asked if he could take a group of friends (inviting 15 assuming a few won’t make it as it’s august) out for his birthday. I said of course and now he is saying he doesn’t want me to take them out but rather to foot the bill…. It seems like a big group and they’re still pretty young that i have some concerns about how well they will behave at a restaurant. I also would just like to be there, to meet some of his school friends i don’t know, etc. I have suggested that i would just say hello and that they would have their own table… am i being a pill? should i let him do it and just foot the bill (this isn’t about the money).
Anon
If you can’t trust a 17 year old and friends to go out without adult supervision, I’d have concerns. Don’t they already go out for meals or to the movies on their own? Aren’t they also just over one year away from being at college and on their own all the time?
At his age (I’m 27, so this wasn’t that long ago) my friends and I went out to grab dinner or go to the movies or walk around town or the mall every single weekend. We’d drive ourselves or carpool (but no parents dropping off or picking up), do our thing (our parents vaguely knew where (like which mall or town center we were going to) we were but not the details), and then drive ourselves home by curfew.
Anon
+1 my friends and I pretty much all got (used) cars when we turned 16 and from then on very few friend outings involved the parents in any way. There were rules of course like we had to be home by X time, but the parents were never present. I would let them go.
Anon
+1!
Anon
I would foot the bill, and lurk somewhere else in the restaurant just to make sure they’re behaving. I think that is a reasonable compromise. I’d explain to your son that you trust him but perhaps one or two of his friends were raised by wolves. Promise him you won’t interfere as long as there is peace at his table.
Anon
I was in college at 17. Time to let go.
Anonymous
i feel like 15 people is going to be a huge dinner party that will require a separate room or something like that — i don’t see why you couldn’t be at the bar or elsewhere in the restaurant that is not that room. but maybe i’m wrong? i think most restaurants would not want 15 teenaged boys all at once unless this is like dave & busters or something.
Anon
I have definitely done group dinners this size (as a teenager and as an adult) without needing a separate room. It depends on the restaurant.
FWIW, when I was in high school my soccer team would have team dinners every month. No parents or coaches – older girls drove the younger girls. We would be a group of about 20 in a restaurant.
And then once we got licenses, this was a popular birthday outing too – go out to dinner at a local restaurant with just friends and then back to someone’s house to watch a movie and sleepover.
Anon
Same here, out to a movie and then dinner at TGI Fridays or a local diner was a standard Saturday night outing. We were working class kids and our parents drilled respect for wait staff into us because many of our parents/siblings/extended family waited tables or otherwise worked in customer service.
Anon
This. I agree with the people above that 17 year olds should be able to go to dinner by themselves, but 15 people is a big group for a nice restaurant, and it’s especially a big group when it’s teenage boys. It depends a bit on the restaurant, but I’d maybe give him the choice between a smaller group on his own and the big group with you somewhere nearby (but not too close).
Anon
Also what kind of restaurant are we talking about? There’s a big difference between TGI Friday’s and a nicer and/or smaller local place which definitely affects my answer. If it’s a casual place, I wouldn’t worry so much about it.
Anonymous
Oh god I would die of embarrassment if my mom was sitting around the corner of the restaurant at 17. No just no.
Anonymous
I am surprised by your suggestion that 17 is young to go to a restaurant without a parent. If your son is too immature to handle this at the age of 17, I think you have a lot of remediation to do. But chances are you’ve done a fine job, he’s fine, and it is you who needs to make the adjustment. Wow – to think of what I did on my own at 14, 15, 16, and 17 . . . an unchaperoned meal at a restaurant doesn’t even scratch the surface.
Anon
Yup, either you have prepared your son to be able to behave at a restaurant without parent supervision when he is only one year away from being a legal adult, or you have not.
If you have, of course he can go out to dinner with his friends without a chaperone.
If you haven’t, you have a LOT of work to do in the next year!!
Anonymous
That said, I agree with the poster above about the separate room/special reservation issue. In this case, it might go over better if you show up at the beginning to meet with the restaurant and then disappear and then (with your son’s knowledge) show up at the end, perhaps for dessert, to meet the friends briefly and pay the check.
Anonymous
Uh you can’t trust your 17 year old in a restaurant with a dozen friends? These kids will be in college next year. What are you gonna do then? Let them go.
Ate nearby
FWIW, we did this for my daughter when she was 12-ish. I made the reservations and met all her guests at the restaurant. I explained to the hostess that I would pay the bill, and that my husband and I were eating at a different restaurant in the same mall 2 mins away. I asked my daughter to text me when they were finished.
When I arrived the hostess said the girls had been exceptionally well behaved. They had ordered less food than I felt they should’ve, but that was the only issue. (I should have told the girls that they could each order x and y.) Otherwise smooth.
Anon
17 year olds join the military and go to college and live on their own all the time. He’s fine.
Anon
I started going out to meals (and the mall and the movies) with my friends without any parents on the premises at age 12. I hope your son has had the opportunity to do the same throughout his teenage years!
Anon
Uh, has your 17 year old really not yet gone out to dinner, or the movies, or walked around town unchaperoned yet?
anon
op: of course he goes to restaurants, drives, movies, stays home alone. My “concern” as it were is that it’s a big group and certainly large groups of kids do stupid/ careless/ thoughtless things that smaller groups are less likely to do. as someone said, i’m not sure a real restaurant (not a pizza place) wants 15 17 year old boys even if one of them has his mothers credit card.
Cat
well yeah pick an age-appropriate place with your son, but otherwise I wouldn’t try to actually attend the party. Maybe give the restaurant your phone number in case something goes awry.
Anon
This might be a good time for you to speak with your son about what hosting means. You’re paying for the dinner but if he is the ‘host’ then it is partially his responsibility to ensure that his guests enjoy themselves (pick a venue where they can be a bit more boisterous if that’s the vibe he wants) and that they are respectful of others when out in public.
Is there a place locally that normally hosts larger groups? In our town the top picks would be Hibachi places, the local country club with an outdoor patio that has lawn games, or the upscale sports bar (think top golf). Bit more adult than Dave and Busters but still more casual than a fine dining restaurant.
Anonymous
Excellent point about making sure he understands his responsibilities as the host.
Gail the Goldfish
I remember doing a hibachi style place group dinner for my birthday about this age (might have been 18?). It’s a good option for groups, and you’ll know roughly what it’s going to cost because the menu variations are pretty limited.
(and my parents didn’t bat an eye at my group going out anywhere, but we were good kids. My only worry at the time was our exceptionally loud friend who doesn’t understand inside voice might get us kicked out of our Barnes & Noble cafe hangout spot. Of course, I still worry my exceptionally loud friend is going to get us kicked out of places and now he’s 40, so.)
Anonymous
I would only let him pick a lower tier restaurant. Pizza actually would be perfect. That way a few bad apples can’t run up the bill too much. Also with pizza, he can just order for the group. I wouldn’t let them go to a nicer restaurant with that group size. They probably will be fine, but there’s still a difference in maturity between high school and college kids.
Anon
It doesn’t have to be pizza. Applebees or Cheesecake Factory or some place like that would work. Definitely don’t go fancy.
Anon
I get what you’re concerned about. Just pick a casual restaurant or a big chain that’s used to large groups. Benihana is great for this kind of thing. There’s built-in entertainment and each person’s entree includes multiple courses. Set some ground rules about beverages and additional appetizers if you’re worried about them running up the tab.
Anon
I’d call ahead and maybe reserve a separate space for them but I agree that it’s overkill for you to go with them to supervise. Are they normally rude to waitstaff? If so that’s something you need to nip in the bud ASAP. Frankly most of my friends at that age were nicer to wait staff than many adults because we all had jobs and dealt with jerky customers ourselves!
Cat
I was eating out casual meals with friends (groups of 3-6) pretty regularly in high school, like going to a diner before a movie. While this might require more coordination with the restaurant due to the size, having them be alone in public should not be a big deal.
Anonymous
I have a 17-year-old daughter who is heading to college in the fall. I would absolutely allow her to do this but would set clear expectations about the cost. My main concern would be whether the restaurant would permit such a large gathering, so I’d have the kid call for a reservation ahead of time. The restaurant will probably be more accommodating if the kid explains that there will be a single check. They will probably also add a mandatory tip of about 18% given the size of the party. I would not consider it appropriate for a parent to be present during such a gathering.
FWIW, when I was in college we would routinely go in groups of this size to the Cheesecake Factory, which at that time was “fancy” enough that it offered only valet parking, to buy a couple of whole cheesecakes and split them. It was the standard birthday outing in my social circle. I imagine that the servers were annoyed by the low size of the bill (and hence the tip) relative to the size of the party, but we never had a problem. We also went out to dinner a number of times in groups of 10 or more. This was back in the day when you split the bill by collecting cash from everyone, and we always made sure that the tip was 20% even if it meant that one of uss had to throw in a few dollars extra to cover someone who had not contributed their full share.
If you don’t trust your son and/or his friends to behave properly in a restaurant, the solution is to prohibit the gathering, not to tag along. I can’t imagine allowing my kid to hang out with kids who would be rowdy or destructive, so if that’s your worry then you’ve got bigger issues than whether to supervise his dinner outing.
Now if he wanted to host a party at home that would be a whole different issue. I do not, and my peers do not, allow my teen to attend house parties without an adult present. Typically the adults make themselves invisible upstairs while the kids take over the main floor of the house. Obviously once my daughter goes off to college this rule will be unenforceable, but while she lives at home she’s not going to any unsupervised parties until she is 21.
Anon
Cheesecake Factory for cheesecake was the birthday place for my college crew too!
Anon
When I was his age we would all go to bucca di beppo or the local diner for friend’s birthdays, after sports games or other school events. It was normal to have~15 together.
Our parents put the fear of god in us if we misbehaved.
Anon
Seriously. I remember going out with my parents to a diner near my high school after an awards banquet. I went there regularly for lunch/snacks with friends so they knew me/my friend group. My mom and grandma both waited tables and put the fear of god into us about being respectful to waitstaff and tipping well. My mom and dad were shocked and then touched when the host and waitress congratulated me on my award and mentioned to my parents how nice our group of kids were as customers (they apparently liked us more than the teachers as we tipped better!).
Anonymous
17 year olds at a restaurant is totally normal but you footing the bill is a bit weird. FWIW I have lived alone and been financially independent since 17
Anon
That opinion might be colored by your experience. IME, my friends and I went out to eat most weekends in high school. For birthdays it was pretty common to have kids go out to dinner and parents cover it. On all other weekends everyone would pay their own way.
smurf
yes you are being a pill.
I did HS theatre, it was common for 20+ of us to go out after a show. No parents around! Yes we’d call ahead to let them know. Everyone behaved because we wanted to be allowed back!
any kind of family friendly or sport bar esque place will be totally fine. have him call ahead to make the reservation. He’s almost an adult, let go of the training wheels!
Anon
+1 to having him call ahead for the reservation
Anon
I’m a little surprised by all the people who think it’s fine for your son to want your credit card to spend possibly $1000 or more (apps, dinner, dessert for 15) but for you to stay out of it.
I would go with your coparent to eat in a different room of the restaurant, but hang with the group for 10-15 min at the start to meet them and celebrate your son. Maybe join them again for dessert. If your son can’t bear the thought of his mom meeting his friends then THAT is a sign of immaturity and I would not be paying for this event.
Anon
Well, I wouldn’t expect the bill to be that high! If need be, set parameters with your son about what people should order. I also think its weird that she doesn’t know his friends – are they not ever hanging out at her house? Did she never drive the carpool before they got their licenses?
But, yes its totally fine for the son to not want his mommy to be there to check up on he and his friends out at dinner when they’re almost legal adults.
Anon
Yeah, a $1000 bill would be $65 per person if all 15 kids come — I think it would be really hard to spend that at a casual chain restaurant without ordering alcohol, which hopefully they’re not! I’d expect to spend more like $500 for 15 kids at a place like Applebee’s, but I’m in a LCOL area.
I don’t think it’s weird to not know all of a teen’s friends. I’d expect you know the closest friends who are coming for sleepovers and what not, but at that age you don’t know every kid they hang out with.
Anon
Maybe that’s a little high, but include tax and 20% tip and it’s not impossible. I’m in a HCOL area and it’s hard to get a main course for less than $15-20 at even a “normal” restaurant
Anon
Agree you should expect to spend $15-20 per entree even at a chain restaurant. But if the main course is $20 that’s only ~$26 even with tax and 20% tip. Nowhere near $65, which would take ordering about $50 worth of food per person.
Anon
I think that at 17 you get much better results with the carrot than the stick. They feel that they’re grown (and they almost are) so tend to bristle at being told you will do this or you won’t do that. There’s only a handful of things I feel very strongly about my kids doing or not doing, and that’s what I save the stick for. Everything else is carrot or natural consequences at this point. I should have done my job as their parent well enough so that by the time they’re 17 they’re generally making good decisions (with some boneheaded ones too, because they are teenagers).
So, why don’t you pay for dinner, eat at a different restaurant, and then offer to have the kids back to your place to hang and sleepover if they want?
KP
I agree with this. Complete freedom can be a temptation to act stupid. Boys are different from girls. Things tip easily into who can be the biggest butthead. Ordering expensive virgin cocktails, all the apps, all the desserts, pushing someone’s face into the whipped cream or cake frosting. Are you sure there won’t be one bad apple with a few joints or pills in his pocket. Meet me in the restroom, bro?
Retired teacher here.
KP
I meant to second the idea of meeting everyone at the beginning and then eating in a different part of the restaurant.
Anon
These are all very different problems.
Pushing someone’s face into cake frosting – really not that big a deal imo
Ordering lots of expensive food – I feel like the parent can set limits with the birthday kid and/or the restaurant in advance, and require kid to pay a certain amount out of allowance/job money if they go over
Drugs – eh if his friend group is the type to use drugs, they’ll have plenty of other opportunities. And he’s going to college in a year and can’t be supervised there. At some point you have to let go and trust that you’ve done enough parenting for your kids to make reasonably good choices. He’s 17, not 12.
Anon
Has anyone been a substitute teacher? I work a compressed schedule (3×12 hour days) and am interested in becoming a sub for the upcoming year because I’ve long toyed with switching careers into teaching. Just wondering about how you get assignments and then what you actually do when you’re at the school. I know each school is different, but interested in hearing about your experience.
Also – what were you paid per day of subbing?
Anon
I haven’t done it but I’m pretty involved with our school so I know how it works and people (mostly SAHMs) who’ve done it. Our public school district (LCOL Midwest, excellent school district) pays $110 per day for subs. Excluding long term subs (like covering a teacher’s maternity leave or a teacher who quits mid-year) you’re pretty much just a babysitter. There’s no expectation that you do anything of academic substance, and the kids will act out and resist any attempts to teach them actual material. I think it might be fine in K-3 where kids are still pretty cute and friendly and being a babysitter is fun, but it would take a lot more than $110/day for me to sub older elementary school or middle/high school. I don’t think it would give you a very good sense of what teaching is like. Teacher friends often mention that the hardest parts of the job are the lesson prep, the frequent standardized testing, and the relentless nature of the job, none of which short term subs really experience.
Anonymous
At my school we have permanent subs who come in each day and are assigned to classes as needed. Depending on who’s absent they might cover one teacher’s schedule for the whole day or switch between teachers (ie, ELA teacher has a mtg first period, then no one needs coverage, then the phys ed teacher is leaving midday). Permanent subs are paid a set rate per day regardless of how many periods they cover, and they have a lunch period. Most days they cover everything but their lunch or maybe have one extra free period.
We also have teachers who sub intermittently during their prep periods for extra money. I do this frequently. Not to be discouraging, but if you are interested in teaching and you use subbing as your litmus test, you will almost certainly hate it. Teachers usually don’t leave « real » work when absent, and almost never anything they expect the sub to teach. Even when I cover for my colleagues, it’s like babysitting (24 kids at once).
Last, at least in my district, you must be enrolled in a teacher training program or have a teaching license already. Most of our subs are grad students or retirees.
Anonymous
Based on what I hear from my friends who teach and my friends who sub, subbing doesn’t give you a good idea of what it’s like to teach because you aren’t actually teaching anything and because you aren’t really affected by the ridiculous policies and management practices of the school district and the school (e.g., book banning, terrible curricula, lack of support for classroom discipline, teaching to the test, administration’s general disrespect for teachers).
Anon
Well if you choose the right school for you, you won’t have to deal with that stuff either. I think my school has a great curricula, there is very little tolerance for students misbehaving, we don’t have state tests to teach to, and the administration is generally supportive.
Anon
We’re in a really great school district with happy teachers and we don’t have to deal with many of the things the 4:10 poster listed (book banning is not a thing here), but I still don’t think substitute teaching will give you a sense of what it’s like to be a teacher. It’s so different when you don’t have the long range planning and don’t stay with the same kids for an extended period of time. Several people have said substitute teachers are babysitters and I agree, and babysitting is very different than teaching.
Anon
If you’re a teacher in a school like 4:10, you need to GTFO. There are so many great schools that don’t suck to work at.
Anonymous
I have some SAHM friends who sub for our local school district. There is a web-based system where they can view and accept assignments. Short-term sub assignments are really just babysitting. Teachers are supposed to leave independent work for the kids to do and the sub just keeps order. I hear that the pay is around $80/day after tax withholding. No college degree is required.
Anon
So while subbing doesn’t expose you to many aspects of teaching (curriculum design, lessons prep, assessment design, grading, dealing with admin and parents), I think it’s still useful to see if you like working in a school environment, like working with kids, and how comfortable you are getting up in front of the class and speaking.
IME, if you sub at a private school or a well-regarded public school its not just babysitting. You’ll be given the lesson plan and objectives and be expected to do something – obviously the expectations are lower because you’re not the SME on that curriculum, but it’s not just hand out worksheets and supervise. Also, IME at a private school kids are pretty decently behaved with a sub – there is way less tolerance for nonsense, there are actual consequences, and kids are regularly expected to toe the line so they’re not going to totally act up with a sub.
Anon
+1 to have him call ahead for the reservation.
Anon
If you’re looking for ways to get involved for the 2024 election, I’d strongly recommend looking for phone-banking or door-knocking opportunities on mobilize.us! I spent a couple of hours phone-banking over the weekend and it felt really productive and energizing. This race is going to come down to razor thin margins in a few key states, and knocking on doors and making calls to get the vote out will likely have a huge role in determining the outcome!
Anonymous
For people who’ve done phone banking or door knocking, can you explain what it even does? In an election like this am I wrong are most people dug in to a side – full on Trump or never Trump? So when you call them, aren’t they just going to say they’re on your side or they’d never vote for your side and hang up – if they pick up an unlisted number at all? Same with door knocking though I think even fewer people open doors to strangers anymore.
What am I missing, why are these such big strategies? Yet is seems like thousands of people turned out for the Harris campaign to door knock this weekend in places like Vegas, Reno etc.
smurf
a few things – with narrow margins, even convincing 1 in 100 people to vote can make an impact! look at how low voter turnout is in most states. A lot of groups have pretty good lists of who always vote red/blue/doesn’t engage so can focus accordingly.
I think there are a lot more – moderates, for lack of a better word, but really people who say ‘i don’t follow politics’ than most realize. Convincing them that their vote matters is impactful. Also – down ballot votes! Even if someone doesn’t like or want to vote for Harris or Trump, getting them to participate in local elections matters.
Anon
Phone-banking and canvassing are usually about getting out the vote, not about voter persuasion. So you are receiving a list of registered Democrats, and calling on them to remind them to register to vote or to vote in November.
This election is going to come down to razor-thin margins, so what matters is which party gets more of their voters out to the polls. Even if only a few people out of every hundred called vote when they otherwise wouldn’t, it’s a huge huge impact to getting us the few thousand extra votes we need in Pennsylvania and Michigan.
It also is really powerful in terms of building excitement, momentum, and energy. It creates the sense that your community cares about the election and that your vote personally matters, which is again huge for increasing voter turnout.
If you’re in a swing-state, knocking on doors is a critical way to get involved. If you’re not, phone-banking is the next best thing. If we get bank millions of calls, that translates into thousands of extra votes that we need to win the election.
Anon
More people are split between “not voting at all” and “voting” than are split between parties, so it’s largely about turn out. But always remember that are also many, many people who don’t think much about politics or whose political views are poorly captured by existing parties and who are disengaged but who may vote if they hear a reason to.
Anon
In my experience, a huge percentage of people don’t prioritize voting – they have other stuff going on, they don’t know if they’re registered or where to go and figuring it out is daunting, or they think their vote doesn’t really matter. An actual human person who can convey that YOU voting makes a difference and help sort out any logistical hurdles is really impactful and makes it much more likely that person will go and vote.
Friendship in your 40s
Seeking advice – I have an old friend who frequently gets upset about feeling excluded from our friend group or like people aren’t making as much effort to spend time with her as with each other. She is not a diva or someone seeking drama, and I think really feels these feelings – but I just don’t agree or see it. I’m pretty confident that this is exacerbated by the fact that she is going through some tough stuff in her own life. I’m just not sure what to do or say at this point? Thanks for any suggestions.
Anonymous
Objectively, is she being left out of gatherings or communications?
Anon
OP here – I don’t think so, and have asked her to help me understand and she can’t really point to anything specific
Anon
This is my question.
I have a friend like this in my book club. There are kind of “subgroups” of the club– a couple of us like yoga and the others don’t, a few live in the same neighborhood and go walking together, a few have cats and swap out cat sitting, etc. So, there are people who are left out of certain activities that they wouldn’t enjoy or they’ve expressed they don’t want to do, but the whole group is invited to most activities (even if some don’t come). One member has expressed a few times when she feels left out, even when some have gone to yoga and she has said the words, “I don’t like yoga and I don’t want to go.” Typically what happens then is that the “offending” group says something like “We didn’t intentionally exclude you; we thought you didn’t like yoga; let’s get together for coffee next week.” I do make an effort to see her one-on-one more often than the others just because I know she’s going through some things, and I value her friendship so don’t want her to be hurt. And I enjoy spending time with her! The others do the same where they’ll spend extra time with her as well.
So, in my situation, the friend was getting left out in a way for certain activities, though included in others, and all members of the group get left out of certain things. I don’t think anyone in my situation was doing it on purpose or out of animosity, and we all kind of came to an understanding of what was going on and tried to meet her where she was. It has worked out really well.
Anon
Suggest she discuss this with a therapist. That’s all that you can do.
Anonymous
Sure, if you want to end the friendship.
anon
Well, that would be a good way to alienate a friend.
Anon
If your friend is thinking she’s being left out when you see absolutely no signs she is being left out, a therapist is more likely to help her than you are. A therapist can help her either validate her experience or question the assumptions she’s operating under. OP’s too close to the situation to really do either. Either way, OP sounds like a wonderful friend, and suggesting this friend talk to someone outside the social circle to get an objective perspective + support is not at all unreasonable.
ABanon
Perhaps tell her you don’t like to keep track like that as you’ve found it just leads to unhappiness. Avoid taking responsibility for others in the group and suggest she go to them directly. If she’s just venting to you, tell her you’re not the right person to talk to about this because you don’t control others and you don’t enjoy feeling like you’re talking about them behind their backs.
Perhaps suggest that if the group is not fulfilling her needs it’s fine to get support elsewhere (as someone else suggested therapy, or another group, family, journaling, hobby, whatever). It’s fine to acknowledge it’s not working for her — so she feels heard (but also that maybe it’s not possible to transform the group into something else).
Also remind her it’s sometimes necessary to be the one to reach out or let others know what she needs (although it doesn’t sound like she know what she needs or can define what her expectations are, so that would be the first step).
Cat
is it that she realizes she’s not one of the ‘hubs’ of the group? Like I am fully aware that one of my friend groups, everyone is most connected to 2 of the 7 people (neither of whom is me), and then the rest of us all get along fine together, but would rarely hang out without one of those 2. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that and it’s pretty common, but if you’re feeling on the ‘outs’ could that be the source?
anon
Ah, this is a common enough dynamic that I wonder if this could be part of it.
Anon
I want to sing the praises of a merino v-neck longer cardigan I got in the NAS maybe 8-10 years ago. It’s not a fancy number. It is the low-key dupe of the Tory Burch Simone cardigan that all of the cool kids had back then. It’s not exciting or fun or fancy or even new now, but I reach for it all the time because it’s such a great third piece now that the rest of what I’m wearing are fuller-leg ankle pants and a blouse / elevated tee in offices that are frigid. It has pockets. I’m sure it’s pennies per wear. I have one other item from the NAS order, but the cardigan is the sleeper hit. It’s funny b/c I haven’t seen a Simone in the wild in ages and IDK what the cool current item is, but I am still so pleased with this purchase.
Anonymous
48 hours on Lbg Island with my 12 year old (Suffolk County, have a place to stay, but haven’t been there in about 20 years). Looking to take her for a fun beach day mid-week. Would you do Fire Island or Montauk?
We are staying much closer to the Fire Island ferry, but don’t mind driving to Montauk if it’ll be a more fun beach experience for her.
Anon
Might be too late, in which case I’ll post again tomorrow, but with two rising juniors I want to start prepping the discussion of what will you do after high school. If I had to guess right now, Twin A will definitely want to go to college. We have money set aside for this, my DH and I both went straight to a 4 year college, and we are most knowledgeable about this path (but of course, plenty has changed since we went to college so new things to consider are welcome). Twin B seems to go back and forth when talking about the future – I’ve heard him mention college or the military or community college or trade school. All of those options are okay with us – totally fine if a 4 year degree isn’t in the cards so long as there is a plan for some post-high school education or training that leads to a career. As long as they’re happy and achieving a base level of productivity (not a leach on society, pursuing something that will allow them to support themselves and the lifestyle they want in the future), we’re okay. I also fully believe that kids need to make the decision for themselves – I’m happy to be a sounding board and to ask questions and to help them think through things but I’m not going to tell them what to do or not do.
As they start to think about their paths, what questions should I be asking? What should they be considering when thinking about the short term, medium term, and long term?
Anon
I’d probably have a conversation about how a career isn’t a straight progression and that it’s ok to try something, decide it’s not for you, and do something else. Lots of people do but at that age it can feel like abject failure not to ‘use your degree!’. I’d also focus more on skills, interests, and what they most enjoy vs. subjects in school or hobbies. So, if they like writing is it because they like being creative (writer/script writer) or because they enjoy clearly conveying information (technical writing). I think it’s also helpful to know if they’re the kind of person who wants to do mostly the same thing every day and get better at it over time (architect/operations/coder) or if they like having a different challenge on a daily basis (contract work, consulting, event planning).
If they are planning to be in a physically demanding field I’d have a long conversation about what the exit plan is – my physical therapist/PT/OT/plumber/contractor/military friends have some very real physical challenges performing their jobs as they age and have had to plan for early retirement or transition into training/teaching sooner than they thought.
Anon
College is still the best path toward a career that will pay decently. I would encourage both twins to do the necessary in order to get on that path. I’m glad alternatives exist but I wouldn’t encourage my own kids to take them.
Anon with Emotions
This is objectively untrue when it comes to certain trades, btw. For example if my kid was choosing between being an electrician or a teacher, I’d push them towards trade school.
Anon
An electrician with a college degree will have a much better shot at a more lucrative career than one without a degree. And it has been studied over and over again to the same conclusion.
Anon
I mean, I’d push my kid to doing almost anything over being a teacher!
(I am an ex-teacher).
Anon
Just because of the money? I think if you want to go into teaching or another low paying profession you have to accept that you’re not going to be living in a big city, since salaries don’t seem to scale anywhere near enough to account for much higher housing costs. Where I live (LCOL Midwest) public school teachers make $55-60k. It would be hard to support a family on that but if you have a spouse earning a similar salary, you’d be very comfortable here, even with 2-3 kids.
anonshmanon
I would try to find a way to involve them into the family budget. Depending on their interests, maybe handle the grocery budget for a month, or plan a vacation, together with parents as needed. I had an allowance, but zero sense about what different incomes mean for your lifestyle, what housing costs, and other things in life. I followed my heart in college, and they never steered me in any particular direction. I think the fact that my chosen career allows me to provide for myself is pretty much luck.
Anon NYC
Even if they are on the fence about college or future careers, I’d urge them to strive to succeed in school, get great grades, get involved in extra curricular activities, etc. That way they will have options if they change their mind.
anon
My workplace holds an annual family event. Most people bring their SO or spouses/kids; others bring a sibling or friend if they aren’t currently coupled. Workplace does a good job of making the event as inclusive as possible and has changed the format several times to accommodate different groups, ages, and stages. The current iteration of family night is a minor league baseball game.
I really don’t want to go this year. Or maybe ever again. My kids don’t enjoy baseball, I find it stressful to drive across town to pick them up and drive across town again to attend the game, and I’m not antisocial, but this is not how I want to spend my limited free time after a long work week. I usually have an okay time once I get there, but feel more relief when it’s over, and I’m just over it. I don’t feel a big desire to mix work and family, even if it’s just once a year. And if I’m being really honest, it feels like it opens up another way that people can judge me, especially if I have an unenthusiastic kid in tow.
I feel some pressure to go because I’m a manager but I wouldn’t be the first manager to skip this thing. So do I have to go, lol?
Cat
Can you go by yourself so that you greet your team and their families, and then go home after a couple of innings?
Anon
This is the way. You get a little face time with the team and let them know that if they want to enjoy the event, they can do so. But it’s not as big of a time commitment or stressor for you. If anyone asks where the kids are, they just had another engagement that evening (no further details).
Anon
+1. I worked in sales and the more senior people would usually attend the company-wide events for a drink or two (hour or so) and then leave while also making it known to their direct reports that it was ok to show up a bit late the next day. The very best bosses would also usually leave their card with a trusted associate so that the after party drinks would be on the company’s expense account.
Anon
As a manager, I feel like I should go to these things. Could your spouse pick up the kids and meet you at the stadium? If kids really hate baseball, could you just go on your own or get a babysitter and go with spouse? Do any of your work friends go?
Are you guys super busy every night (you mention limited free time) in that the would be a nice break from the usual after work routine?
Anon
Admittedly, I think this would be fun (either solo or with my kids), but I think as a manager this is probably a command performance.
TBH, you entire post sounds negative and I don’t know you just feel this way about the family event, but its coming off that you’re generally overwhelmed and stressed (“stressful”, “limited free time after a long work week”, “relief when its over”, “people can judge me” “unenthusiastic kid”). So, maybe its better to just this year take the time to do something fun with your family after work rather than this, and then you can resume going to the game next year.
anon
I am definitely overwhelmed and stressed right now, which I’m sure is affecting my attitude.
Anon
BUT, don’t we all have limited free time? Every single one of us? Get there for the start solo and stay for 3 innings.
anonshmanon
I feel you. I made two email blunders in the last week, and that is normally not me.
Anon
Don’t bring your kids. Get a babysitter and bring your spouse, bring a friend or sibling as a date, or just go alone (and maybe leave early).
Anon
This.
I’d be disappointed if my manager didn’t make the effort to go. But, you can leave the kids and bring someone else!
anon a mouse
I feel like you get a pass once in a blue moon (whoops, you have travel already scheduled on that day!) but you can’t opt out for good. But I don’t think it matters if your kids come or not — and if your kids are going to be negative and not have a good time, then it’s totally fine for you to not bring them. It’s also okay for you to show up and then leave after 5 innings or so.
I do think you have to look at this as part of the price of admission of being a manager — you want to work somewhere that is inclusive, and even if this doesn’t work for your family at this point, it’s part of being in the organization.
Anon
I would 100% not go to this kind of thing and my manager wouldn’t either.
Anon
Price of managerial admission I’m afraid. That said, totally fine to not take your kids, especially as they get older and have their own lives. Just go yourself.
Anonymous
You should still go, even if it is for a short time. Don’t bring the family to relieve some of the pressure. The reality? Few people like these things. But it’s a show of commitment to the organization and the bigger “team.”
Be glad it’s a company wide event. My old boss used to call several departments together for a year BBQ at his fancy schmancy beach-side home. He actually held it against people who didn’t attend–as in after he let someone go he mentioned how they never showed up to his parties. Jerk was treating the invite as if they had skipped out on their duties (just one of the many reasons I hated said boss and am glad to be free). Dude is now CEO. So probably everyone has the misery now.
Yes, it’s not fair to have to use personal time this way. But it’s still better to just kiss the ring briefly and move on, especially since you are manager level.
Anon
What a shame that your kid has an unmovable conflict that evening, so you can’t make it this year. Maybe next year!
[Over the next year, suggest switching to a different event next year. Also, assuming you have childcare, feel free to go for a bit but leave your kids at home if you find it stressful to mix work and home; I probably would, too.]
Anecdata
Ehh you’re never going to find a large group event like this that absolutely everyone enjoys and a baseball game is a pretty reasonable choice. I wouldn’t try to get the activity switched unless you want to help plan (and I would definitely not want to do that!)
Agree there’s no need to bring your kids though!
Anon
Yeah I feel like if you complain about the event you’re going to (quite reasonably) get tasked with finding an alternate event and no way would I want to do that.
Anon
Oh, it sounded like OP’s workplace rotated the events regularly! I think in that context, it’s okay to say “let’s mix it up again.” If this was a longstanding tradition, I’d be with you.
Anonymous
Bad advice. Both on the not going and also on the complaining.
These sorts of things aren’t like making plans with friends. It’s support for the organization and the team. You treat it as an HR task when you’re in management.